In this episode of the Ag Tribes Report, host Vance Crowe is joined by Jake Jorenstad, co-founder and CEO of Bushel, to discuss the latest developments in the agriculture sector. Jake shares insights from his recent interactions with key figures like the Agriculture Secretary, highlighting the behind-the-scenes efforts to address issues such as tariffs and the E15 mandate. The conversation delves into the implications of the USDA's language ban under the Trump administration, China's barring of major US soybean distributors, and the proposed food dye ban backed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The episode also touches on the US Farm Fresh Food Initiatives aimed at revitalizing rural agriculture and reducing reliance on corporate giants.
Listeners are treated to a lively discussion on the Bitcoin land price report, where Jake shares his views on Bitcoin's role in agriculture and the potential shift towards electric vehicles and renewable diesel in the industry. The episode wraps up with Jake's take on the Peter Thiel paradox and a spotlight on a worthy adversary, offering a thought-provoking look at differing perspectives within the ag community. Tune in for a comprehensive breakdown of the top stories shaping the future of agriculture.
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[00:00:00]
Unknown:
The Ag Tribes Report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are so the future knows who they really were. This Mother's Day, honor your parents with the opportunity to tell their stories and share the wisdom they've learned along the way. Welcome to the AgTribe's report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host, Vance Crowe. The report begins in three, two, one. Let's begin.
[00:00:34] Unknown:
Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crowe. Each week, I bring on a cohost that represents the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week, we have Jake Jorenstad, cofounder and CEO of Bushel, an agricultural technology company based in Fargo, North Dakota. Jake has built Bushell into a platform that digitizes the messy middle of the ag supply chain, connecting grain facilities and farmers across North America. He's also an active figure in the entrepreneurial community having cofounded Emerging Prairie and supported various startups initiatives throughout the region. Welcome to the show, Jake. What have you been paying attention to lately?
[00:01:17] Unknown:
Thanks for having me, Vance. Well, you can imagine everything from tariffs and the effect on what we're thinking about in ag to spend some time with the agriculture secretary here in North Dakota. Madam secretary was here just this week. So we've been we've been in it and seeing what's going on behind the scenes. It's been pretty incredible. And what was, meeting her like? Man, she we got lucky. So Grand Farm here in North Dakota, we have this, program going on and they held hosted a a private dinner later that evening when she was visiting just just a couple days ago. Rollins secretary Rollins and and, senator Hovind as well. And, first off, really impressed with her, her candor and her willingness to hear what people think straight and give straight answers back and what she's challenged with.
And, I mean, my my feedback is coming out of that discussion that evening, I'm pretty bullish that we're getting gonna get somewhere particularly. Oh, man. We can stay here and explore this a little bit more because I have kind of become under the impression that she's like a super FFA officer that walks around and, you know, poses with people and says, like, pretty cliched things. But you're saying, no. She she actually said real things in that conversation? Let me say this. So if you if you've ever met maybe senator Hovind as well. Right? They have a they have a situation they deal with when it's public and it's media and there's reporters around. They have to say certain things and have to be a certain way. When you get in private conversation, when the when there's no media allowed in the room, they're business folks who are here to figure out the problem. And that attitude was clear in the evening. And so we spent time together and she heard the issues. She heard she knows about this three zero one shipping issue where we've got Panamaxes that could find a million bucks every port they come to in The US. If they were to come here to get our beans, it's not gonna work. Might as well not have any beans at all if that's what's gonna happen, right, to, the issue around the e fifteen mandate and why we haven't been able to get there.
She heard it direct from the group. She gave direct responses. She takes her own notes along with her team. She's able to recap really well at the end of the conversation what she's hearing and is like, knows what the issues are. But then it's like behind the scenes, they're gonna call x, y, and z. She's got the presidents here. This is like, there's real work happening, but they also have to show up and represent
[00:03:38] Unknown:
US Agriculture to the farmer too. But it it was really incredible to be part of. Jake, this is starting out good because, I in the very beginning, I'm like, I don't know. Is he it like but if you're saying that, she's out there doing stuff good, that's fantastic. Alright. Let's get into the show. This week, on the Ag Tribes report, we're gonna be discussing the USDA language ban under the Trump administration. China, barring major US soybean distributors, proposed food dye ban that may impact farmers, and US farm fresh food initiatives, that is supposed to be coming, to agriculture.
We're also gonna do the Bitcoin land price report. We'll hear Jake's take on the Peter Thiel paradox, and we're gonna learn about his worthy adversary. And we're gonna try and do all of that in just thirty minutes. So let's get started. First up, headline one, USDA bans language, under Trump administration. The US Department of Agriculture under the Trump administration, had a leaked memo that has revealed there are bans on terms like climate, safe drinking water, and greenhouse gas emissions with the agency. This move described as a purge of woke language could stifle scientific research and rural aid programs, potentially reshaping how agricultural communities address environmental challenges. I think you can kinda tell the the slant of the of the writer of the article. Farmer and rural advocates might see this as an attack on progressive farming practices like those practiced by Zach Smith, and deepening a cultural divide between traditionalists and those pushing for sustainable focused agriculture. Jake, they're talking about banning language, and a lot of people in ag don't like a lot of the policy that, they're talk that they're talking about. So what do you think? Banning language but freeing farmers? Where do you think this goes?
[00:05:27] Unknown:
I don't think a lot of it matters on that topic. We in the ag space have said, hey. Since the new group's here, we're not talking climate smart anymore. We can talk regenerative, maybe. We can talk being good stewards of the land, which every farmer I've ever met is. But these other labels that were sort of spun into something else, I I got no problem if they get deleted at least at the government level. I don't I don't know what they're they were doing to begin with. It hasn't helped. We wasted a lot of money spinning our wheels the last probably five plus years on sustainability, like, in the and, of course, these things some of these are real things, but a lot of it is a lot of fluff to get programs to fund your efforts. And as soon as the government's pick it turned off, the programs go away and nobody's working on the problem, that tells you maybe there wasn't a problem worth fixing to begin with as it relates to that. Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. You know, I often say that,
[00:06:22] Unknown:
he who controls the definition controls the argument. And so you're oftentimes like you look at even when just injecting terms, we're gonna do climate smart agriculture automatically presupposes the the conclusion or at least tilts you in one direction.
[00:06:36] Unknown:
And so while I'm, like, you know, I don't know, banned words is not a good way, but that's really just the framing of the US government doing policy by moving words and definitions out of what they're doing. And it's the government can decide what they can and can't say for themselves. They're not telling us we can't say those words. This is just a policy internally at the government. Like, stop using the words that people don't appreciate in some parts of the world, and let's just get to the real business. I'm fine with that. Maybe we can call whatever we want. But How long do you think between when Climate Smart Ag goes away and the carbon pipelines go away? Well, if the business is real, it should not matter. It should not be related to the terms. If the carbon pipeline is a real path that is actually sustainable without subsidies from the government long term, then maybe it doesn't really matter. But if it can't get done, for business reasons, then maybe it's not a good business to be in to begin with. That's just a simple way we should operate.
[00:07:32] Unknown:
You and I are in total agreement on that one, and I think, we're gonna find out when that money runs out or when all of a sudden, governments aren't giving airlines, you know, money because they're saving carbon credits or whatever kind of craziness they do. Voluntary
[00:07:47] Unknown:
carbon markets are the most ridiculous idea I can imagine. The idea that you would voluntarily waste your shareholders money on credits that are imaginary in some respects and certainly hard to measure is absolutely wild. Of course, that's not sustainable.
[00:08:07] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's it's totally, a fabricated industry where, you know, how you count them and who is counting them and do they get double counted and, like, I have sat in on many conferences where there's somebody coming along being like, I'm gonna show you how we count that carbon and it's like I don't know. It's this
[00:08:26] Unknown:
it's different than Bitcoin. I'll tell you that. The the that there is real reason to care about long term sustainability. There is voluntary carbon market that companies are just gonna show up with extra profits to pay people is, an imaginary long term idea that's not, obviously and I could tell you it's dead now. Go go find who's buying. There's not many left.
[00:08:46] Unknown:
Headline number two, China bars US soybean distributors. China has reportedly barred the three largest US soybean distributors, c h CHS, Louis Dreyfus, and, EGT LLC from operating within its borders, intensifying The ongoing US China trade war. This move reportedly in early March, follows The US tariff hike of, that that's just been going on back and forth. In fact, I'd I'd hate to claim numbers right now because they keep changing. They were going up yesterday and then back down and who knows? The ban threatens us to have significant economic fallout with estimates suggesting a $5,900,000,000 annual loss for US Farmers as China shifts to alternatives like Brazil. The IMF warns of slower global growth due to these tariffs, potentially squeezing rural communities even further.
Jake, the backbone of The US economy, it's agriculture. It's being held up by, you know, whether these trade deals should go through or not, and we've got an unrelenting push for exports because if we don't export, where is this stuff gonna go? How are you seeing this because if we don't export, where is this stuff gonna go? How are you seeing this impact, your ag tribes?
[00:09:54] Unknown:
Well, I'll I'll I have to keep a little bit tight on, you know, some of the some of the learnings from this week just because it was sort of behind closed doors, and it's not a media, public thing. But there's trade deals getting done. Probably I mean, publicly, the secretary said next week, we'll hear some of the first ones will be announced properly. So this won't be like they're coming or they're gonna hey. These are the ones. Here's the deals. So I think we're gonna see that next week. I'm gonna take her at her word for it.
The other thing is this entire effort is truly to put China in a position where they have very little leverage. And the only way I think our current administration thought that was possible was to turn the entire world, in our favor to try to get us to fight China together by basically creating leverage and then working from there. And it's really hairy. It's obviously unpredictable. Nobody knows for sure if it's gonna work, but their view has been this is the only path to get this leveled out. Obviously, this is retaliatory. There's other things going on, but I think we are gonna end I'm I'm an eternal optimist. I'm an entrepreneur, so this is what we do. I think we're gonna end in a place where the overall tariffs to our country have lowered on average around the world. Hopefully, that's the case all around, and China's the real question mark. Of course, this matters. Now China can buy a lot of soybeans from Brazil, but only part of the year. We all know this, and they can't buy all their beans from there right now. Maybe they would, some tell you in the future, but today, they will starve if US cannot deliver them any beans. They will not have the stocks at some point in the coming year, maybe.
And so it's something's gotta break somewhere, and we're gonna see, I think, sooner than later.
[00:11:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I think, this is going to radically shift things over time. If China does continue, even if the tariffs are off and they decide, hey. Well, we're just not gonna do business with these people. We're gonna continue to increase, you know, our our shipments from Brazil. Certainly, there's not enough out there right now to do it without The US, but maybe this forces The US to think about its crop mixture. Because if we don't have export markets like we used to, maybe beans won't be the crop that we do. I'll tell you a quote. I won't tell you who said it,
[00:12:14] Unknown:
but they said if this was at dinner. If if we have 10% tariffs on our beans in Asia, if we have 10%, don't worry about the ships because we're not gonna need them. There will be no beans to be sold into Asia. And so we can solve the ship concern three zero one, but if we don't eventually get tariffs leveled way down to where we can sell competitively our own beans, we won't have any reason to ship any beans. And you know what that means because we got more beans than we consume right now. So that's the problem.
[00:12:52] Unknown:
Alright, headline number three, proposed food dye ban and its impact on farmers. I had this sent to me not once, but twice. This story was sent to me. A proposal backed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Aims to ban artificial food dyes like red number 40 from The US food supply. Per NPR, Kennedy cites health risks like hyperactivity in kids though there's industry groups that dispute this, the FDA is reviewing it with the decision pending. Farmers face mixed impacts, corn and soybean growers may lose demand from processed foods, while other farmers like beet and turmeric farmers could benefit from the natural dye shift. So there's gonna be winners and losers anytime you make a big change like this. But what do you think, Jake? Should we be unilaterally banning dyes that otherwise, groups have said, you know, government agencies have said they were okay before?
[00:13:45] Unknown:
Well, I'll preface this statement with I don't always agree with Europe, but Europe has done this a long time ago, for their what they believe to be really good reasons health wise to not need artificial dyes. Let's be honest. You know, maybe you can decide whether you think you should drink Mountain Dew or not, but yellow dye and Mountain Dew is not making the flavor different. It's just in our head what that what that is perceived to look like. That's the dye. Right? And the same thing with all the reds and everything else that we see, it's all just more it kind of been ingrained in our brains that that's what the color should look like and the flavor should taste. There's nothing real about that other than it's it's something that makes us feel good about it. We we we I have no problem banning dyes. I'm pretty sure it's happening. 2026 is probably the time frame it's gonna be done done here if they don't overrule it. I'm not opposed to it, and I think the real agriculture market that actually has alternatives to these diets will benefit, and that's maybe a good thing. I hate picking winners and losers. Sometimes the government does that. I'm not a huge fan. But if we can reduce the requirement of having artificial anything in our food, it's probably
[00:14:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, personally, I don't want to be imbibing the dyes, and I don't want my children. I'm very suspect of somebody just coming in and being like, nope, you're not allowed to use that if there's no evidence. Right? This becomes a very dangerous thing. And, to your point about Europe, I mean, there is so much about European, food culture that they present as doing sustainable or as doing, like, the more healthy way. But the reality is like things like, oh, we have a GMO band. Well, they just have a GMO band so that way they can continue to have small farms. They don't want them to grow massively. They import their GMOs, but they put this out there like they don't have GMOs, they don't have glyphosate, but they do. And I suspect something like that is going on with these dyes and that's what makes me uncomfortable about this conversation because if we start to be like, they did it, they're probably better off, then you can do that about glyphosate and you can do that about every other chemistry that's being used that we should be using some standard, some scientific, like, this is the level we go and if you get if you show, like, to some degree that you don't cause harm, then you're allowed to be used. Because otherwise, we're banning stuff because the government politically wants to. Correct. And there's a libertarian proper libertarians would tell you,
[00:16:09] Unknown:
let anybody do whatever they want. Your point is if we have true evidence that there is a challenge, then, of course, we should be doing what's right for everyone. But that's a really slippery slope, especially in government. I do think there's more than no evidence that that's a problem, but, it's probably hard to argue that the whole thing should just be zero. But, so I hear you on both sides. I I don't have a big problem with the dye thing, and I kinda like RFK. I kinda like this guy. He's breaking stuff and willing to fight for a change in how we do things. I'm not opposed to, like I'm kind of in the delete everything mode right now and see if we can build something better. Yeah. And to be totally candid, I I think that the, like, the FDA and the USDA, they have been completely co opted by the system. Right? They they have created regulatory motes that would make it that if if you wanna get a new product in you, it's gonna be really difficult. And all the ones that are already in there,
[00:17:04] Unknown:
nobody's taking a look at. So I'm with you. Like, while I think RFK could be really dangerous, that that danger comes with a lot of opportunity too.
[00:17:13] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I do think he's a good person that's trying to do good things, so that helps a little bit. I think he actually
[00:17:21] Unknown:
cares. Well, speaking of good things, The US Farm Fresh Food Initiatives is being promoted as a good thing. Touted by Fox News as a renaissance of agriculture, the USDA under Trump's administration rolled out measures on April 23 to cut rate red tape for producers, streamline permitting for small farms, and boost timber production on federal lands. A new $50,000,000 grant program targets rural co ops to expand local meat processing, aiming to reduce reliance on corporate giants and keep profits in farming communities. Timber initiatives include easing logging restrictions on national forests and, which could be a boon for rural sawmills. This is a step to culturally revive the American, agricultural system.
And, man, I like the sound of a lot about of the a lot of that. What about you, Jake?
[00:18:14] Unknown:
On the same deregulation, if the regulation is the reason why the big players are in it, then I think deleting the regulation is great news for everybody and at least builds equal playing field. I don't wanna over regulate to tell them it has to be small, for example. Like, let's just get rid of the reasons why small players can't participate. And there's this guy, I think he's from North Dakota. His name's governor Doug Burgum, now secretary Burgum. He's the reason why we're doing the restriction drop of you know, dropping regulations at the federal level. His that's his job as interior secretary. So he's he's the guy. He's saying, hey. There's lands that we have. Maybe not even great reasons why the feds have the lands to begin with, and we should be using our natural resources instead of worrying about importing wood from other countries when we could pay our own people and our own mills to make our own wood. What are we doing? Let's get to it. That's what's happening here. This is secretary Bergam's involved in this for sure.
[00:19:06] Unknown:
I mean, nothing sounds better to me than this. This is, like, if the government, that's in there now can produce the sorts of results that you're talking about, deregulation. I mean, I'm one of those people that thinks the federal government shouldn't own that land, and so we should be, privatizing it, making sure people that own it have take care of it, and, and bringing back sawmills. I mean, the other big one that's just a line in there, and it was very difficult to find details about this. So this is just they're they're trying to get energy for it. But the one about making it easier for small meat producers, this is maybe singularly the most important thing that could happen for, US, health, and that is the ability to get affordable food made in a whole bunch of different ways where the that way you don't have to just be in the the commodity pork, pig, and chicken market. You can start creating it in different ways. I think that health will come roaring back if we have more access to locally produced food.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
And deregulation helps. And, you know, back to the earlier point, this this situation where we say no or banning dies is contradictory to deregulation. That's like regulation. No. Right? So I that's why we were queasy about the whole thing. But if it is bad or there's really no need for it, maybe it needs to be moved. I certainly would like to avoid having my son eat random things like that. And then back to the other side, let's deregulate. Let's use our own forests. Turns out trees grow, by the way. You just put more seed in the ground and trees come again, so it's not like they're they're gone forever. You can cut some trees down, regulate it less, and let's get some more, American made wood in this market. I mean, I think all of our construction prices would come down if we could cut more trees in this country.
[00:20:47] Unknown:
That sounds great to me. Alright. That's gonna do it for headlines today. If you have headlines, you can always send them to me on x at Vance Crowe, or you can send them to [email protected]. And I do really love it. It is a fantastic way for me to know what people are paying attention to. I would not have seen the dies, conversation if not for that. So alright. Moving on to the Bitcoin land price report. Woo hoo. It has been a wild week for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's price last week was $85,104, and today, we are sitting at a cool $93,446, which is 9% up from last week. So, there are a lot of people talking about right now that, Bitcoin has decoupled from, the the regular stock market. And so now we may watch it that when people are running away from the stock market, they start running towards Bitcoin. It was really fascinating that its price held up during all this tariff stuff. Sure. It was down kind of in the gutter if you're comparing it to a hundred and 20, but if you're comparing it to last year's pricing was doing pretty well.
So getting on to your side of this, Jake, where do you live and how much does an acre of high quality farm ground cost in your county?
[00:22:01] Unknown:
Alright. So I'm in, Cass County, North Dakota, which is I'm living in Fargo proper, and $5,000 an acre is probably county average for for egg land cropland here.
[00:22:14] Unknown:
And what are they what are they doing with that land? They're growing corn, soy, wheat, hay, what? We are the one of the most fertile
[00:22:21] Unknown:
places, on the planet to grow crops. The Red River Valley is large flat sort of, flooded all these years was created by the glacial plains. And anyways, we we grow soybeans and corn, but we also grow sugar beets and potatoes on the edges anyways. We do wheat and other crops. North Dakota's huge variety, but soybeans and corn, major crops right here.
[00:22:47] Unknown:
That's what we do. And it's a rare breed of farmer that can, handle the the winters up there. Alright. So Bitcoin's price this week is $93,446. And so if we figure an acre of good farmland is $5,000, that means, one acre of land priced in Bitcoin is 0.053. And, one Bitcoin would buy you 18.6 acres in Cass County, North Dakota. How does that sit with you, Jake?
[00:23:19] Unknown:
Well, 18 acres ain't enough to grow a proper farm around, but it might be good hunting land. It might be, it certainly could be profitable if you're if you're renting that land out. So where are you at on Bitcoin? I'm pro Bitcoin. You can't regulate Bitcoin. You can't, tariff Bitcoin turns out. And, you kinda can tax it but kinda can't. It's an interesting situation we're in. Right? I'm pro Bitcoin. Like, I think it's pretty clear this administration too believes that there's there's some value in this being an an alternative currency that we can rely on and start to think about as a long term answer to some of these challenges, global especially.
I'm pro Bitcoin. I'll probably continue to buy more Bitcoin from kind of these last few years on out. I don't think I'll be going backwards on that.
[00:24:06] Unknown:
So you've been buying?
[00:24:07] Unknown:
Yes. Been buying and I've been buying with, the, the River platform.
[00:24:13] Unknown:
Hey. Alright. So, I actually, this week, had a chance to sit down with, with a banker who's really smart guy that is incredibly suspicious of Bitcoin. And, it was actually one of the best conversations I've had about Bitcoin because he knew a lot about money, but he didn't understand how that relates to Bitcoin. And I don't think I won him over at all, But you could tell that, like, that thing that happens with people as they start getting into Bitcoin where they're like, yeah, but what about this? And then you have an answer, and then they ask the next question, and then they start being like, alright. Come back next week. We're gonna have a better conversation. Do you talk with people about Bitcoin?
[00:24:53] Unknown:
Depends on the environment. If I try to pitch the the broader ag world that Bitcoin was some sort of solve, they have a hard time. And they certainly are skeptical of blockchain that was used as, like, the, oh, the new thing to do grain contracts is gonna be on the blockchain, and nobody can understand why it needed to be on the blockchain. And this this was a thing. Right? Bitcoin, different answer than that. But then you get into conversations at the bar, and a lot of farmers, tinfoil hats or otherwise, are buying Bitcoin too. And so, you'd be surprised. I think a lot of us would raise our hands if you if you ask the egg world if you're in Bitcoin. Yeah. I'm not surprised so much anymore. I'm in I'm in agreement on that. The,
[00:25:34] Unknown:
the it it's been a wild ride to see how farmers have have, had to learn about Bitcoin because you bring up that concept of the blockchain, and I see every once in a while people that I know and like propping up this idea of like, hey, we're gonna move all these grain contracts to blockchain. I'll be the first one to tell you, blockchain without Bitcoin is bullshit. The only reason the blockchain matters is because it is final settlement. It means that money moved from my wallet to Jake's wallet, and we know for sure it's not going back. There may be other uses for blockchain, but they don't exist right now and you'd be better off just using a database, but they're trying to graft off of the the term blockchain in order to make it seem like it's a bigger, more robust idea. I have a similar take. I agree with that.
Well, great. Alright. Well, now I'm looking forward to your, Peter Thiel paradox. But before that, if you've been in interested in buying Bitcoin, I will include a link, in the show notes to river.com. That's where I buy my Bitcoin, and if you buy it there, you will be supporting the show. Alright. The Peter Thiel paradox. Jake, what is one thing that you believe that almost everyone you know disagrees with you on?
[00:26:45] Unknown:
Well, I I'll take this one with everyone that I know that's in ag that has they have a problem with this view. They disagree with me on it. I I believe we have hit peak internal combustion engine, and therefore, we have hit peak gasoline. And the future of light duty vehicles is a % electric, and the future of heavy duty vehicles will be renewable diesel. That's maybe a good one for the egg world, but electric vehicle fleet is not. But I there's no path forward where your car that you drive around in town even in rural America is gonna continue to be an ICE engine. It's going to go away. It's inevitable. We can debate how long, but this is the peak of that. It could be the peak for ethanol depending on the mandates and such, but no major manufacturers are working on new gasoline powered vehicles, and that's the end of the conversation.
[00:27:46] Unknown:
Wow. So when but the the timeline really does matter here. Right? It's very easy to make a prediction and be like, could be a hundred years from now. But are you saying the peak is in so it's gonna come quick?
[00:27:57] Unknown:
When I say peak, I mean, there will be no more demand than ever in in going forward than it has been in the past, and we will continue to go down. And more vehicles sold every year will be electric. And at some point, it will be the majority, and then the majority of used vehicles will be and the question is just how long that cycle takes, and it can take many years. But, it is peak as in there will be less Fords
[00:28:21] Unknown:
with engines in them sold this year than last year and the year before that and ever again. And there will only be more electric. So I you know, I don't know. Like, this week, I went looking for, a lawnmower. I've got a couple acres I wanna be able to get it mowed, and an electric lawnmower sounds really good to me because the sound, you wouldn't have the engine sound on top of the whirring blades. But everybody I talked to is like, yeah. You can have them, but they don't last long, and they've got all these problems.
[00:28:50] Unknown:
What do you think? I think they're wrong. Have you bought a Milwaukee one? Because that'd be the one to buy.
[00:28:56] Unknown:
And Milwaukee makes a riding lawnmower?
[00:28:58] Unknown:
No. I'm thinking a push in my in my place. If you're talking two acres, you need something that works right at that scale. But that's gonna be diesel long term, man. Telling you. That'll be diesel and and or electric depending on how big of operation you have. And the cool part about diesel is diesel is a great generator of power as well that can power electric. So you're gonna see tractors that are diesel diesel over electric where the fuel source still may be diesel, but it will be an electric motor because electric motor is better in every comprehendible way than an engine.
It doesn't matter. You can make any argument you want. The electric motor is better.
[00:29:34] Unknown:
Well, you, you sound like, you'd be a fan of, what is it, Edison Motors that's trying to do those those hybrid motors. This sounds good. Well, I'm gonna give you a good strong score. This is three weeks in a row. We've had good scores. This will be an 8.5 because I don't actually agree with you, but I think you make a good case. Alright. Perfect. Alright. Now, on to the worthy adversary. This is where, we spotlight individuals that we respect but disagree with. And the value of this is you respect people that know something or know how to do something that you don't know, but it's okay to disagree with them. And so, Jake, who is somebody that you respect but disagree with?
[00:30:13] Unknown:
Alright. So there's this investment portfolio manager guy out of California, calls himself a climate warrior, is a CEO of his own firm. He's on the news all the time. He's always, like, on CNBC. This is outside of the ag world. So this guy has been his name is his name is Ross Gerber, g e r b e r. He's on x all the time. He's loud. And he as an investor and a portfolio manager, I have a lot of respect for that skill set, and he probably has done a good job for a lot of his, you know, customers along the years. This dude has been an investor in Tesla in the past for a long time. And the moment that he thought Elon's politics changed was the moment he decided that investment isn't worthy anymore, and I completely disagree with his whole premise. Was he truly a climate warrior, or was he just following whatever the agenda he was told by his buddies in politics to follow? Because you cannot change, you know, one guy's opinion on politics or what side you pick does not change the actual company they produce and what they do and how they produce, in this case, Tesla. I'm a big believer, as long as you can go Tesla in in my life. And, this idea that this guy would change his entire investment portfolio that he has to return capital to his customers on politics just breaks my brain. It makes me so mad.
[00:31:40] Unknown:
That sounds like a good one. Well, we will put him in the list of worthy adversaries. You can find that on my profile on X. I I like it. That was a good one. Alright, Jake, before we let you go, why don't you talk a little bit about Bushel and, some of the things you have coming up here?
[00:31:56] Unknown:
Yeah. So if you if you haven't heard about us, we're we're a software company. Right? So we and I I maybe I'm in ag a lot, of course, but I don't have anything to sell anybody on the grain side of things, and I got I had no inputs to sell you, and I don't buy your grain either. So we're here to help grain companies, agribusinesses, retailers around the country to make it easier to do business with their farmers online, digitizing that workflow from selling your corn to making deliveries to understanding your contract to be able to get paid. And so we've been working on these different steps in that process to make it easy for farmers to do business in the agriculture supply chain, the messy middle, and lately been focused on solving for payments because there's a lot of paper check problems in ag.
Farmers should get paid a little quicker. There's a lot of things that are broken around how they have to pay their bills. We're trying to help fix that problem with an offering that we have, in the payment space. What's the problem with paper checks? Well, there's a lot of problems. One is they're getting lost a lot more than they used to. Two, if you're rural America, you are now looking at multiple day delays on any of your mail from the US post office because we don't have the infrastructure to profitability to make it work. And then three, the government is saying we need to stop sending money in the mail on paper checks period because it is there's way too much fraud going on in all kinds of ways, whitewashing, all these things are happening. Our customers are telling us we're moving to a direct deposit. Can you imagine an egg 80% of payments are not electronic? They're paper check. 80% of your your paycheck, your bills, all that's paper check. And so we're helping move the needle, giving these agribusinesses the tools to pay farmers that way and to get paid and to make it easy for farmers to manage their money in the ag space online.
[00:33:45] Unknown:
And you have a conference, the Buddy Seat Conference coming up here in June.
[00:33:50] Unknown:
Yes, sir. June, buddy seat, bushel buddy seat. If you know what that is in ag, it's a little seat next to the to the combine seat, for somebody to join you and ride along. And, we bring our customers, farmers from around the country into Fargo, North Dakota. It's during AgTech Week, which is a big deal in in North in Fargo where we've got the Grand Farm events and the Chamber's hosting Ag events, and we're hosting our customer conference all in the same week. It's wild. And we have a big party downtown in the middle of the week on Wednesday, Wednesday evening. And so if you wanna come check out what we're all about, June, Bushel Buddy Seat. We're talking software technology and serving the the agriculture community.
[00:34:32] Unknown:
So I will actually be at the Buddy Seat Conference. They've, brought me on as a speaker. Speaker. I'm gonna talk about the edge of chaos, like, where new ideas come from. But I wanted to just stress something I think is worth noting. I I never trade like, hey. Come on the comp I'll do your conference and you come on my podcast. I met Jake and was like, this dude is awesome. Whatever you're building up there, I'm excited about. So I was really excited to have you on the Ag Tribes report. Before I let you go, we're just a a couple weeks away from Mother's Day. So I've been asking people, what is something that's gonna catch you off guard? What's a saying or a phrase or something your mom used to say when you were growing up that you still remember today?
[00:35:16] Unknown:
I just remember I just remember mom saying when she had a lot of trust in our my my brothers and I. My my dad died when I was 12, and, she raised three young boys herself. And she had trust in us. So she would always say, hey. Just be back by 11:00 or be back by midnight. And if we did that, we were not in trouble the next day. And so and we built this trust and and we never had this problem at mom never said you gotta be home at 07:30 because you're in trouble. We just did what she asked us to do, and we were pretty well behaved kids. But she had this trust. She said, be home at this time, and we're gonna be good. And so that would that's something that just still sticks with me. We built trust together, and and mom always, appreciated us falling through on that, and we never had those challenges.
[00:36:07] Unknown:
I really like that one. You know, the trust that happens between parents and children, if it can be kindled and and burning into a bright fire. I mean, it it really makes everybody's lives better in that situation. Yeah. Well, if you have been thinking about capturing your own mother or your mother and father's stories, go to legacyinterviews.com and there you can sign up to have a meeting with, me or one of the people on our team to talk about what we might wanna capture, what you wanna be sure, lives on in the future, who you wanna capture it for, and see if it's a good fit. So if you're interested, go to legacyinterviews.com.
Alright. That's gonna do it for the show this week. Thank you so much for coming on, Jake. And, as always, feel free.
The Ag Tribes Report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are so the future knows who they really were. This Mother's Day, honor your parents with the opportunity to tell their stories and share the wisdom they've learned along the way. Welcome to the AgTribe's report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host, Vance Crowe. The report begins in three, two, one. Let's begin.
[00:00:34] Unknown:
Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crowe. Each week, I bring on a cohost that represents the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week, we have Jake Jorenstad, cofounder and CEO of Bushel, an agricultural technology company based in Fargo, North Dakota. Jake has built Bushell into a platform that digitizes the messy middle of the ag supply chain, connecting grain facilities and farmers across North America. He's also an active figure in the entrepreneurial community having cofounded Emerging Prairie and supported various startups initiatives throughout the region. Welcome to the show, Jake. What have you been paying attention to lately?
[00:01:17] Unknown:
Thanks for having me, Vance. Well, you can imagine everything from tariffs and the effect on what we're thinking about in ag to spend some time with the agriculture secretary here in North Dakota. Madam secretary was here just this week. So we've been we've been in it and seeing what's going on behind the scenes. It's been pretty incredible. And what was, meeting her like? Man, she we got lucky. So Grand Farm here in North Dakota, we have this, program going on and they held hosted a a private dinner later that evening when she was visiting just just a couple days ago. Rollins secretary Rollins and and, senator Hovind as well. And, first off, really impressed with her, her candor and her willingness to hear what people think straight and give straight answers back and what she's challenged with.
And, I mean, my my feedback is coming out of that discussion that evening, I'm pretty bullish that we're getting gonna get somewhere particularly. Oh, man. We can stay here and explore this a little bit more because I have kind of become under the impression that she's like a super FFA officer that walks around and, you know, poses with people and says, like, pretty cliched things. But you're saying, no. She she actually said real things in that conversation? Let me say this. So if you if you've ever met maybe senator Hovind as well. Right? They have a they have a situation they deal with when it's public and it's media and there's reporters around. They have to say certain things and have to be a certain way. When you get in private conversation, when the when there's no media allowed in the room, they're business folks who are here to figure out the problem. And that attitude was clear in the evening. And so we spent time together and she heard the issues. She heard she knows about this three zero one shipping issue where we've got Panamaxes that could find a million bucks every port they come to in The US. If they were to come here to get our beans, it's not gonna work. Might as well not have any beans at all if that's what's gonna happen, right, to, the issue around the e fifteen mandate and why we haven't been able to get there.
She heard it direct from the group. She gave direct responses. She takes her own notes along with her team. She's able to recap really well at the end of the conversation what she's hearing and is like, knows what the issues are. But then it's like behind the scenes, they're gonna call x, y, and z. She's got the presidents here. This is like, there's real work happening, but they also have to show up and represent
[00:03:38] Unknown:
US Agriculture to the farmer too. But it it was really incredible to be part of. Jake, this is starting out good because, I in the very beginning, I'm like, I don't know. Is he it like but if you're saying that, she's out there doing stuff good, that's fantastic. Alright. Let's get into the show. This week, on the Ag Tribes report, we're gonna be discussing the USDA language ban under the Trump administration. China, barring major US soybean distributors, proposed food dye ban that may impact farmers, and US farm fresh food initiatives, that is supposed to be coming, to agriculture.
We're also gonna do the Bitcoin land price report. We'll hear Jake's take on the Peter Thiel paradox, and we're gonna learn about his worthy adversary. And we're gonna try and do all of that in just thirty minutes. So let's get started. First up, headline one, USDA bans language, under Trump administration. The US Department of Agriculture under the Trump administration, had a leaked memo that has revealed there are bans on terms like climate, safe drinking water, and greenhouse gas emissions with the agency. This move described as a purge of woke language could stifle scientific research and rural aid programs, potentially reshaping how agricultural communities address environmental challenges. I think you can kinda tell the the slant of the of the writer of the article. Farmer and rural advocates might see this as an attack on progressive farming practices like those practiced by Zach Smith, and deepening a cultural divide between traditionalists and those pushing for sustainable focused agriculture. Jake, they're talking about banning language, and a lot of people in ag don't like a lot of the policy that, they're talk that they're talking about. So what do you think? Banning language but freeing farmers? Where do you think this goes?
[00:05:27] Unknown:
I don't think a lot of it matters on that topic. We in the ag space have said, hey. Since the new group's here, we're not talking climate smart anymore. We can talk regenerative, maybe. We can talk being good stewards of the land, which every farmer I've ever met is. But these other labels that were sort of spun into something else, I I got no problem if they get deleted at least at the government level. I don't I don't know what they're they were doing to begin with. It hasn't helped. We wasted a lot of money spinning our wheels the last probably five plus years on sustainability, like, in the and, of course, these things some of these are real things, but a lot of it is a lot of fluff to get programs to fund your efforts. And as soon as the government's pick it turned off, the programs go away and nobody's working on the problem, that tells you maybe there wasn't a problem worth fixing to begin with as it relates to that. Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. You know, I often say that,
[00:06:22] Unknown:
he who controls the definition controls the argument. And so you're oftentimes like you look at even when just injecting terms, we're gonna do climate smart agriculture automatically presupposes the the conclusion or at least tilts you in one direction.
[00:06:36] Unknown:
And so while I'm, like, you know, I don't know, banned words is not a good way, but that's really just the framing of the US government doing policy by moving words and definitions out of what they're doing. And it's the government can decide what they can and can't say for themselves. They're not telling us we can't say those words. This is just a policy internally at the government. Like, stop using the words that people don't appreciate in some parts of the world, and let's just get to the real business. I'm fine with that. Maybe we can call whatever we want. But How long do you think between when Climate Smart Ag goes away and the carbon pipelines go away? Well, if the business is real, it should not matter. It should not be related to the terms. If the carbon pipeline is a real path that is actually sustainable without subsidies from the government long term, then maybe it doesn't really matter. But if it can't get done, for business reasons, then maybe it's not a good business to be in to begin with. That's just a simple way we should operate.
[00:07:32] Unknown:
You and I are in total agreement on that one, and I think, we're gonna find out when that money runs out or when all of a sudden, governments aren't giving airlines, you know, money because they're saving carbon credits or whatever kind of craziness they do. Voluntary
[00:07:47] Unknown:
carbon markets are the most ridiculous idea I can imagine. The idea that you would voluntarily waste your shareholders money on credits that are imaginary in some respects and certainly hard to measure is absolutely wild. Of course, that's not sustainable.
[00:08:07] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's it's totally, a fabricated industry where, you know, how you count them and who is counting them and do they get double counted and, like, I have sat in on many conferences where there's somebody coming along being like, I'm gonna show you how we count that carbon and it's like I don't know. It's this
[00:08:26] Unknown:
it's different than Bitcoin. I'll tell you that. The the that there is real reason to care about long term sustainability. There is voluntary carbon market that companies are just gonna show up with extra profits to pay people is, an imaginary long term idea that's not, obviously and I could tell you it's dead now. Go go find who's buying. There's not many left.
[00:08:46] Unknown:
Headline number two, China bars US soybean distributors. China has reportedly barred the three largest US soybean distributors, c h CHS, Louis Dreyfus, and, EGT LLC from operating within its borders, intensifying The ongoing US China trade war. This move reportedly in early March, follows The US tariff hike of, that that's just been going on back and forth. In fact, I'd I'd hate to claim numbers right now because they keep changing. They were going up yesterday and then back down and who knows? The ban threatens us to have significant economic fallout with estimates suggesting a $5,900,000,000 annual loss for US Farmers as China shifts to alternatives like Brazil. The IMF warns of slower global growth due to these tariffs, potentially squeezing rural communities even further.
Jake, the backbone of The US economy, it's agriculture. It's being held up by, you know, whether these trade deals should go through or not, and we've got an unrelenting push for exports because if we don't export, where is this stuff gonna go? How are you seeing this because if we don't export, where is this stuff gonna go? How are you seeing this impact, your ag tribes?
[00:09:54] Unknown:
Well, I'll I'll I have to keep a little bit tight on, you know, some of the some of the learnings from this week just because it was sort of behind closed doors, and it's not a media, public thing. But there's trade deals getting done. Probably I mean, publicly, the secretary said next week, we'll hear some of the first ones will be announced properly. So this won't be like they're coming or they're gonna hey. These are the ones. Here's the deals. So I think we're gonna see that next week. I'm gonna take her at her word for it.
The other thing is this entire effort is truly to put China in a position where they have very little leverage. And the only way I think our current administration thought that was possible was to turn the entire world, in our favor to try to get us to fight China together by basically creating leverage and then working from there. And it's really hairy. It's obviously unpredictable. Nobody knows for sure if it's gonna work, but their view has been this is the only path to get this leveled out. Obviously, this is retaliatory. There's other things going on, but I think we are gonna end I'm I'm an eternal optimist. I'm an entrepreneur, so this is what we do. I think we're gonna end in a place where the overall tariffs to our country have lowered on average around the world. Hopefully, that's the case all around, and China's the real question mark. Of course, this matters. Now China can buy a lot of soybeans from Brazil, but only part of the year. We all know this, and they can't buy all their beans from there right now. Maybe they would, some tell you in the future, but today, they will starve if US cannot deliver them any beans. They will not have the stocks at some point in the coming year, maybe.
And so it's something's gotta break somewhere, and we're gonna see, I think, sooner than later.
[00:11:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I think, this is going to radically shift things over time. If China does continue, even if the tariffs are off and they decide, hey. Well, we're just not gonna do business with these people. We're gonna continue to increase, you know, our our shipments from Brazil. Certainly, there's not enough out there right now to do it without The US, but maybe this forces The US to think about its crop mixture. Because if we don't have export markets like we used to, maybe beans won't be the crop that we do. I'll tell you a quote. I won't tell you who said it,
[00:12:14] Unknown:
but they said if this was at dinner. If if we have 10% tariffs on our beans in Asia, if we have 10%, don't worry about the ships because we're not gonna need them. There will be no beans to be sold into Asia. And so we can solve the ship concern three zero one, but if we don't eventually get tariffs leveled way down to where we can sell competitively our own beans, we won't have any reason to ship any beans. And you know what that means because we got more beans than we consume right now. So that's the problem.
[00:12:52] Unknown:
Alright, headline number three, proposed food dye ban and its impact on farmers. I had this sent to me not once, but twice. This story was sent to me. A proposal backed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Aims to ban artificial food dyes like red number 40 from The US food supply. Per NPR, Kennedy cites health risks like hyperactivity in kids though there's industry groups that dispute this, the FDA is reviewing it with the decision pending. Farmers face mixed impacts, corn and soybean growers may lose demand from processed foods, while other farmers like beet and turmeric farmers could benefit from the natural dye shift. So there's gonna be winners and losers anytime you make a big change like this. But what do you think, Jake? Should we be unilaterally banning dyes that otherwise, groups have said, you know, government agencies have said they were okay before?
[00:13:45] Unknown:
Well, I'll preface this statement with I don't always agree with Europe, but Europe has done this a long time ago, for their what they believe to be really good reasons health wise to not need artificial dyes. Let's be honest. You know, maybe you can decide whether you think you should drink Mountain Dew or not, but yellow dye and Mountain Dew is not making the flavor different. It's just in our head what that what that is perceived to look like. That's the dye. Right? And the same thing with all the reds and everything else that we see, it's all just more it kind of been ingrained in our brains that that's what the color should look like and the flavor should taste. There's nothing real about that other than it's it's something that makes us feel good about it. We we we I have no problem banning dyes. I'm pretty sure it's happening. 2026 is probably the time frame it's gonna be done done here if they don't overrule it. I'm not opposed to it, and I think the real agriculture market that actually has alternatives to these diets will benefit, and that's maybe a good thing. I hate picking winners and losers. Sometimes the government does that. I'm not a huge fan. But if we can reduce the requirement of having artificial anything in our food, it's probably
[00:14:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, personally, I don't want to be imbibing the dyes, and I don't want my children. I'm very suspect of somebody just coming in and being like, nope, you're not allowed to use that if there's no evidence. Right? This becomes a very dangerous thing. And, to your point about Europe, I mean, there is so much about European, food culture that they present as doing sustainable or as doing, like, the more healthy way. But the reality is like things like, oh, we have a GMO band. Well, they just have a GMO band so that way they can continue to have small farms. They don't want them to grow massively. They import their GMOs, but they put this out there like they don't have GMOs, they don't have glyphosate, but they do. And I suspect something like that is going on with these dyes and that's what makes me uncomfortable about this conversation because if we start to be like, they did it, they're probably better off, then you can do that about glyphosate and you can do that about every other chemistry that's being used that we should be using some standard, some scientific, like, this is the level we go and if you get if you show, like, to some degree that you don't cause harm, then you're allowed to be used. Because otherwise, we're banning stuff because the government politically wants to. Correct. And there's a libertarian proper libertarians would tell you,
[00:16:09] Unknown:
let anybody do whatever they want. Your point is if we have true evidence that there is a challenge, then, of course, we should be doing what's right for everyone. But that's a really slippery slope, especially in government. I do think there's more than no evidence that that's a problem, but, it's probably hard to argue that the whole thing should just be zero. But, so I hear you on both sides. I I don't have a big problem with the dye thing, and I kinda like RFK. I kinda like this guy. He's breaking stuff and willing to fight for a change in how we do things. I'm not opposed to, like I'm kind of in the delete everything mode right now and see if we can build something better. Yeah. And to be totally candid, I I think that the, like, the FDA and the USDA, they have been completely co opted by the system. Right? They they have created regulatory motes that would make it that if if you wanna get a new product in you, it's gonna be really difficult. And all the ones that are already in there,
[00:17:04] Unknown:
nobody's taking a look at. So I'm with you. Like, while I think RFK could be really dangerous, that that danger comes with a lot of opportunity too.
[00:17:13] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I do think he's a good person that's trying to do good things, so that helps a little bit. I think he actually
[00:17:21] Unknown:
cares. Well, speaking of good things, The US Farm Fresh Food Initiatives is being promoted as a good thing. Touted by Fox News as a renaissance of agriculture, the USDA under Trump's administration rolled out measures on April 23 to cut rate red tape for producers, streamline permitting for small farms, and boost timber production on federal lands. A new $50,000,000 grant program targets rural co ops to expand local meat processing, aiming to reduce reliance on corporate giants and keep profits in farming communities. Timber initiatives include easing logging restrictions on national forests and, which could be a boon for rural sawmills. This is a step to culturally revive the American, agricultural system.
And, man, I like the sound of a lot about of the a lot of that. What about you, Jake?
[00:18:14] Unknown:
On the same deregulation, if the regulation is the reason why the big players are in it, then I think deleting the regulation is great news for everybody and at least builds equal playing field. I don't wanna over regulate to tell them it has to be small, for example. Like, let's just get rid of the reasons why small players can't participate. And there's this guy, I think he's from North Dakota. His name's governor Doug Burgum, now secretary Burgum. He's the reason why we're doing the restriction drop of you know, dropping regulations at the federal level. His that's his job as interior secretary. So he's he's the guy. He's saying, hey. There's lands that we have. Maybe not even great reasons why the feds have the lands to begin with, and we should be using our natural resources instead of worrying about importing wood from other countries when we could pay our own people and our own mills to make our own wood. What are we doing? Let's get to it. That's what's happening here. This is secretary Bergam's involved in this for sure.
[00:19:06] Unknown:
I mean, nothing sounds better to me than this. This is, like, if the government, that's in there now can produce the sorts of results that you're talking about, deregulation. I mean, I'm one of those people that thinks the federal government shouldn't own that land, and so we should be, privatizing it, making sure people that own it have take care of it, and, and bringing back sawmills. I mean, the other big one that's just a line in there, and it was very difficult to find details about this. So this is just they're they're trying to get energy for it. But the one about making it easier for small meat producers, this is maybe singularly the most important thing that could happen for, US, health, and that is the ability to get affordable food made in a whole bunch of different ways where the that way you don't have to just be in the the commodity pork, pig, and chicken market. You can start creating it in different ways. I think that health will come roaring back if we have more access to locally produced food.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
And deregulation helps. And, you know, back to the earlier point, this this situation where we say no or banning dies is contradictory to deregulation. That's like regulation. No. Right? So I that's why we were queasy about the whole thing. But if it is bad or there's really no need for it, maybe it needs to be moved. I certainly would like to avoid having my son eat random things like that. And then back to the other side, let's deregulate. Let's use our own forests. Turns out trees grow, by the way. You just put more seed in the ground and trees come again, so it's not like they're they're gone forever. You can cut some trees down, regulate it less, and let's get some more, American made wood in this market. I mean, I think all of our construction prices would come down if we could cut more trees in this country.
[00:20:47] Unknown:
That sounds great to me. Alright. That's gonna do it for headlines today. If you have headlines, you can always send them to me on x at Vance Crowe, or you can send them to [email protected]. And I do really love it. It is a fantastic way for me to know what people are paying attention to. I would not have seen the dies, conversation if not for that. So alright. Moving on to the Bitcoin land price report. Woo hoo. It has been a wild week for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's price last week was $85,104, and today, we are sitting at a cool $93,446, which is 9% up from last week. So, there are a lot of people talking about right now that, Bitcoin has decoupled from, the the regular stock market. And so now we may watch it that when people are running away from the stock market, they start running towards Bitcoin. It was really fascinating that its price held up during all this tariff stuff. Sure. It was down kind of in the gutter if you're comparing it to a hundred and 20, but if you're comparing it to last year's pricing was doing pretty well.
So getting on to your side of this, Jake, where do you live and how much does an acre of high quality farm ground cost in your county?
[00:22:01] Unknown:
Alright. So I'm in, Cass County, North Dakota, which is I'm living in Fargo proper, and $5,000 an acre is probably county average for for egg land cropland here.
[00:22:14] Unknown:
And what are they what are they doing with that land? They're growing corn, soy, wheat, hay, what? We are the one of the most fertile
[00:22:21] Unknown:
places, on the planet to grow crops. The Red River Valley is large flat sort of, flooded all these years was created by the glacial plains. And anyways, we we grow soybeans and corn, but we also grow sugar beets and potatoes on the edges anyways. We do wheat and other crops. North Dakota's huge variety, but soybeans and corn, major crops right here.
[00:22:47] Unknown:
That's what we do. And it's a rare breed of farmer that can, handle the the winters up there. Alright. So Bitcoin's price this week is $93,446. And so if we figure an acre of good farmland is $5,000, that means, one acre of land priced in Bitcoin is 0.053. And, one Bitcoin would buy you 18.6 acres in Cass County, North Dakota. How does that sit with you, Jake?
[00:23:19] Unknown:
Well, 18 acres ain't enough to grow a proper farm around, but it might be good hunting land. It might be, it certainly could be profitable if you're if you're renting that land out. So where are you at on Bitcoin? I'm pro Bitcoin. You can't regulate Bitcoin. You can't, tariff Bitcoin turns out. And, you kinda can tax it but kinda can't. It's an interesting situation we're in. Right? I'm pro Bitcoin. Like, I think it's pretty clear this administration too believes that there's there's some value in this being an an alternative currency that we can rely on and start to think about as a long term answer to some of these challenges, global especially.
I'm pro Bitcoin. I'll probably continue to buy more Bitcoin from kind of these last few years on out. I don't think I'll be going backwards on that.
[00:24:06] Unknown:
So you've been buying?
[00:24:07] Unknown:
Yes. Been buying and I've been buying with, the, the River platform.
[00:24:13] Unknown:
Hey. Alright. So, I actually, this week, had a chance to sit down with, with a banker who's really smart guy that is incredibly suspicious of Bitcoin. And, it was actually one of the best conversations I've had about Bitcoin because he knew a lot about money, but he didn't understand how that relates to Bitcoin. And I don't think I won him over at all, But you could tell that, like, that thing that happens with people as they start getting into Bitcoin where they're like, yeah, but what about this? And then you have an answer, and then they ask the next question, and then they start being like, alright. Come back next week. We're gonna have a better conversation. Do you talk with people about Bitcoin?
[00:24:53] Unknown:
Depends on the environment. If I try to pitch the the broader ag world that Bitcoin was some sort of solve, they have a hard time. And they certainly are skeptical of blockchain that was used as, like, the, oh, the new thing to do grain contracts is gonna be on the blockchain, and nobody can understand why it needed to be on the blockchain. And this this was a thing. Right? Bitcoin, different answer than that. But then you get into conversations at the bar, and a lot of farmers, tinfoil hats or otherwise, are buying Bitcoin too. And so, you'd be surprised. I think a lot of us would raise our hands if you if you ask the egg world if you're in Bitcoin. Yeah. I'm not surprised so much anymore. I'm in I'm in agreement on that. The,
[00:25:34] Unknown:
the it it's been a wild ride to see how farmers have have, had to learn about Bitcoin because you bring up that concept of the blockchain, and I see every once in a while people that I know and like propping up this idea of like, hey, we're gonna move all these grain contracts to blockchain. I'll be the first one to tell you, blockchain without Bitcoin is bullshit. The only reason the blockchain matters is because it is final settlement. It means that money moved from my wallet to Jake's wallet, and we know for sure it's not going back. There may be other uses for blockchain, but they don't exist right now and you'd be better off just using a database, but they're trying to graft off of the the term blockchain in order to make it seem like it's a bigger, more robust idea. I have a similar take. I agree with that.
Well, great. Alright. Well, now I'm looking forward to your, Peter Thiel paradox. But before that, if you've been in interested in buying Bitcoin, I will include a link, in the show notes to river.com. That's where I buy my Bitcoin, and if you buy it there, you will be supporting the show. Alright. The Peter Thiel paradox. Jake, what is one thing that you believe that almost everyone you know disagrees with you on?
[00:26:45] Unknown:
Well, I I'll take this one with everyone that I know that's in ag that has they have a problem with this view. They disagree with me on it. I I believe we have hit peak internal combustion engine, and therefore, we have hit peak gasoline. And the future of light duty vehicles is a % electric, and the future of heavy duty vehicles will be renewable diesel. That's maybe a good one for the egg world, but electric vehicle fleet is not. But I there's no path forward where your car that you drive around in town even in rural America is gonna continue to be an ICE engine. It's going to go away. It's inevitable. We can debate how long, but this is the peak of that. It could be the peak for ethanol depending on the mandates and such, but no major manufacturers are working on new gasoline powered vehicles, and that's the end of the conversation.
[00:27:46] Unknown:
Wow. So when but the the timeline really does matter here. Right? It's very easy to make a prediction and be like, could be a hundred years from now. But are you saying the peak is in so it's gonna come quick?
[00:27:57] Unknown:
When I say peak, I mean, there will be no more demand than ever in in going forward than it has been in the past, and we will continue to go down. And more vehicles sold every year will be electric. And at some point, it will be the majority, and then the majority of used vehicles will be and the question is just how long that cycle takes, and it can take many years. But, it is peak as in there will be less Fords
[00:28:21] Unknown:
with engines in them sold this year than last year and the year before that and ever again. And there will only be more electric. So I you know, I don't know. Like, this week, I went looking for, a lawnmower. I've got a couple acres I wanna be able to get it mowed, and an electric lawnmower sounds really good to me because the sound, you wouldn't have the engine sound on top of the whirring blades. But everybody I talked to is like, yeah. You can have them, but they don't last long, and they've got all these problems.
[00:28:50] Unknown:
What do you think? I think they're wrong. Have you bought a Milwaukee one? Because that'd be the one to buy.
[00:28:56] Unknown:
And Milwaukee makes a riding lawnmower?
[00:28:58] Unknown:
No. I'm thinking a push in my in my place. If you're talking two acres, you need something that works right at that scale. But that's gonna be diesel long term, man. Telling you. That'll be diesel and and or electric depending on how big of operation you have. And the cool part about diesel is diesel is a great generator of power as well that can power electric. So you're gonna see tractors that are diesel diesel over electric where the fuel source still may be diesel, but it will be an electric motor because electric motor is better in every comprehendible way than an engine.
It doesn't matter. You can make any argument you want. The electric motor is better.
[00:29:34] Unknown:
Well, you, you sound like, you'd be a fan of, what is it, Edison Motors that's trying to do those those hybrid motors. This sounds good. Well, I'm gonna give you a good strong score. This is three weeks in a row. We've had good scores. This will be an 8.5 because I don't actually agree with you, but I think you make a good case. Alright. Perfect. Alright. Now, on to the worthy adversary. This is where, we spotlight individuals that we respect but disagree with. And the value of this is you respect people that know something or know how to do something that you don't know, but it's okay to disagree with them. And so, Jake, who is somebody that you respect but disagree with?
[00:30:13] Unknown:
Alright. So there's this investment portfolio manager guy out of California, calls himself a climate warrior, is a CEO of his own firm. He's on the news all the time. He's always, like, on CNBC. This is outside of the ag world. So this guy has been his name is his name is Ross Gerber, g e r b e r. He's on x all the time. He's loud. And he as an investor and a portfolio manager, I have a lot of respect for that skill set, and he probably has done a good job for a lot of his, you know, customers along the years. This dude has been an investor in Tesla in the past for a long time. And the moment that he thought Elon's politics changed was the moment he decided that investment isn't worthy anymore, and I completely disagree with his whole premise. Was he truly a climate warrior, or was he just following whatever the agenda he was told by his buddies in politics to follow? Because you cannot change, you know, one guy's opinion on politics or what side you pick does not change the actual company they produce and what they do and how they produce, in this case, Tesla. I'm a big believer, as long as you can go Tesla in in my life. And, this idea that this guy would change his entire investment portfolio that he has to return capital to his customers on politics just breaks my brain. It makes me so mad.
[00:31:40] Unknown:
That sounds like a good one. Well, we will put him in the list of worthy adversaries. You can find that on my profile on X. I I like it. That was a good one. Alright, Jake, before we let you go, why don't you talk a little bit about Bushel and, some of the things you have coming up here?
[00:31:56] Unknown:
Yeah. So if you if you haven't heard about us, we're we're a software company. Right? So we and I I maybe I'm in ag a lot, of course, but I don't have anything to sell anybody on the grain side of things, and I got I had no inputs to sell you, and I don't buy your grain either. So we're here to help grain companies, agribusinesses, retailers around the country to make it easier to do business with their farmers online, digitizing that workflow from selling your corn to making deliveries to understanding your contract to be able to get paid. And so we've been working on these different steps in that process to make it easy for farmers to do business in the agriculture supply chain, the messy middle, and lately been focused on solving for payments because there's a lot of paper check problems in ag.
Farmers should get paid a little quicker. There's a lot of things that are broken around how they have to pay their bills. We're trying to help fix that problem with an offering that we have, in the payment space. What's the problem with paper checks? Well, there's a lot of problems. One is they're getting lost a lot more than they used to. Two, if you're rural America, you are now looking at multiple day delays on any of your mail from the US post office because we don't have the infrastructure to profitability to make it work. And then three, the government is saying we need to stop sending money in the mail on paper checks period because it is there's way too much fraud going on in all kinds of ways, whitewashing, all these things are happening. Our customers are telling us we're moving to a direct deposit. Can you imagine an egg 80% of payments are not electronic? They're paper check. 80% of your your paycheck, your bills, all that's paper check. And so we're helping move the needle, giving these agribusinesses the tools to pay farmers that way and to get paid and to make it easy for farmers to manage their money in the ag space online.
[00:33:45] Unknown:
And you have a conference, the Buddy Seat Conference coming up here in June.
[00:33:50] Unknown:
Yes, sir. June, buddy seat, bushel buddy seat. If you know what that is in ag, it's a little seat next to the to the combine seat, for somebody to join you and ride along. And, we bring our customers, farmers from around the country into Fargo, North Dakota. It's during AgTech Week, which is a big deal in in North in Fargo where we've got the Grand Farm events and the Chamber's hosting Ag events, and we're hosting our customer conference all in the same week. It's wild. And we have a big party downtown in the middle of the week on Wednesday, Wednesday evening. And so if you wanna come check out what we're all about, June, Bushel Buddy Seat. We're talking software technology and serving the the agriculture community.
[00:34:32] Unknown:
So I will actually be at the Buddy Seat Conference. They've, brought me on as a speaker. Speaker. I'm gonna talk about the edge of chaos, like, where new ideas come from. But I wanted to just stress something I think is worth noting. I I never trade like, hey. Come on the comp I'll do your conference and you come on my podcast. I met Jake and was like, this dude is awesome. Whatever you're building up there, I'm excited about. So I was really excited to have you on the Ag Tribes report. Before I let you go, we're just a a couple weeks away from Mother's Day. So I've been asking people, what is something that's gonna catch you off guard? What's a saying or a phrase or something your mom used to say when you were growing up that you still remember today?
[00:35:16] Unknown:
I just remember I just remember mom saying when she had a lot of trust in our my my brothers and I. My my dad died when I was 12, and, she raised three young boys herself. And she had trust in us. So she would always say, hey. Just be back by 11:00 or be back by midnight. And if we did that, we were not in trouble the next day. And so and we built this trust and and we never had this problem at mom never said you gotta be home at 07:30 because you're in trouble. We just did what she asked us to do, and we were pretty well behaved kids. But she had this trust. She said, be home at this time, and we're gonna be good. And so that would that's something that just still sticks with me. We built trust together, and and mom always, appreciated us falling through on that, and we never had those challenges.
[00:36:07] Unknown:
I really like that one. You know, the trust that happens between parents and children, if it can be kindled and and burning into a bright fire. I mean, it it really makes everybody's lives better in that situation. Yeah. Well, if you have been thinking about capturing your own mother or your mother and father's stories, go to legacyinterviews.com and there you can sign up to have a meeting with, me or one of the people on our team to talk about what we might wanna capture, what you wanna be sure, lives on in the future, who you wanna capture it for, and see if it's a good fit. So if you're interested, go to legacyinterviews.com.
Alright. That's gonna do it for the show this week. Thank you so much for coming on, Jake. And, as always, feel free.
Introduction to the Ag Tribes Report
Meet Jake Jorenstad: Innovator in Ag Tech
Insights from a Private Dinner with Secretary Rollins
USDA Language Ban Under Trump Administration
China Bars US Soybean Distributors
Proposed Food Dye Ban and Its Impact
US Farm Fresh Food Initiatives
Bitcoin Land Price Report
The Peter Thiel Paradox
Worthy Adversary: Respect and Disagreement
Bushel's Innovations and Upcoming Events
