Bitter to Better

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In this Mom Moments episode of Bitter to Better, I sit down with my dear friend Kim Forte—mom, mediator-in-training, longtime attorney, and all-around truth-teller—for a wide-ranging, honest conversation about the highs and lows of parenting and partnership. We celebrate a community win from a small-but-mighty Election Day bake sale that far exceeded fundraising goals, and we unpack the power of rupture-and-repair after tough moments with our kids. We talk about shifting from dependence to interdependence as our fifth graders grow, letting children try their own solutions, and staying grounded amid the never-ending mental load of passports, school schedules, and the holiday season.

Kim shares her transition from litigation to peacemaking and what divorce and relationship mediation can offer families who want to protect their kids’ wellbeing while separating with dignity. We dive into practical self-care that actually fits real life, including the three buckets—self, couple, and family care—plus creating go-to lists for dates and family adventures. From setting sacred quiet time to teaching kids to “read the room,” from snack sanity and balanced meals to evolving conversations about emotions and intimacy as kids enter tween years—this is a candid, warm, and funny kitchen-table chat for any parent riding the waves.
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All Joy and No Fun by Jennifer Senior https://jennifersenior.net/all-joy-and-no-fun
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[00:00:00] Unknown:

Welcome to another episode of the Bitter to Better podcast, Mom Moments, where I invite moms in my life to sip wine and have a good time.   Today,   I'd like to thank my good friend Kim Forte for joining me to talk   about various things.   She can be described as a human, a wife, a mother,   a friend,   a person who has spent much of her career practicing law and is now transitioning into mediation. Yep.  

[00:00:28] Kim Forte:

Welcome, Kim. Thank you for having me, Tracy.   Completely.  

[00:00:33] Unknown:

Doctor p.   So tell me, what's been high? What's been low?  

[00:00:39] Kim Forte:

Well, my high is we actually shared it, so I I feel like,   we can celebrate it a little bit together,   is that,   we overcame   our fear   of, like, the whole parenting, like, PTA   fundraising,   like, responsibility   in the school community, and we did a very what we thought was a very small bake sale with a couple of moms. If you're any of those moms are watching this, thank you very much.  

[00:01:08] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:01:09] Kim Forte:

And, like, literally, five of us, six of us, seven of us pulled it. Yeah. You know, maybe. Is that more than seven? I don't think so. Mhmm. Pulled it together and showed up for each other, and our kids showed up for a a little a sum for us or a lot for us, actually. And we ended up   raising   a whole lot more money than we even had   the and and I'm not talking about a whole lot of money, guys. I'm not talking about like, we didn't raise tens of thousands of dollars.   But,   you know, we raised a considerable amount of money that really the school needed, and we were hopeful to get some,   or meet their goal, which was, you know, less than a thousand dollars, actually. And we well exceeded that, and it felt just so good to be part of something with   other dedicated parents. And I know it wasn't just the moms. It was also the other parents who helped those moms get that stuff there today. So I there were dads dropping off and participating in it. I don't wanna like gender. The people who participated, there were other There was a grandpa there selling all day. Our friend's Yeah. Father was there. So, you know, it was just really,  

[00:02:12] Unknown:

a really great success as, like, a parenting team or a team of parents, and that felt really good. So that was my high. Yeah. Definitely. To see the strength of our labor. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely share that high. And like I said, we were blown away at how much we did end up raising and then just to see all the progress and to see how Mhmm. The community, like, was so generous.  

[00:02:30] Kim Forte:

They were so generous. The community was so generous. We did it on election day. Tip tip. If any of you guys are those of you who have parent who don't go to our school, which is Marvin Elementary in East Norwalk,   and you don't do an election day bake sale, do it. It's a it's a brilliant idea. They've done it yearly, and it really is a great success.   And I was proud as a mom because my kids spent over   two and a half hours,   like Yeah. On behalf of their classmates,   like, selling baked goods and raising money for their class. And they felt great about it, and I felt great. And it was like that felt really good too. I think that was, for me, the biggest, like, high in that moment. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. That was awesome to see.   Lowe's.  

Where do I start?   You know, I had a moment   with   my kids the other day where   Kyle was   that's my daughter. I'm the mom of twins,   boy, girl twins. Our son is Luca. Our daughter is Kyle.   And   I   she was upset about something that I kind of thought she should predictably   understand might happen. The dog got ahold of something and ripped it up kinda thing, and it's very disturbing to her. She was very sad about it. It was a very sentimental toy.   And I, like, at first started very like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, but, like, it's not gone, and I can fix it. And and I was in the middle of cooking dinner, and dinner was literally, like, hot and being served, and it just derailed.  

[00:03:58] Unknown:

Yeah. And I did not handle it well.  

[00:04:01] Kim Forte:

I just got louder and louder as she got louder and louder, and then I ran away with the dog. I was like, I'm taking this dog for a walk.   Nobody helps me. I had one of those moments where it's like, nobody helps me. The house is a mess, and I look. I've been taking this course and and been really dedicated to to   an education for myself in the last couple of weeks, and it's really taken a lot of my time away. And I get that. But at the same time, like, that's when you helped me. You know? That's not when you abandoned me. What's the matter with you?   But I will say, you know, there was a little bit of a high at the end because my kids, like, really agreed to kinda process and, like, made me talk about it, and we all discussed it, which I don't think that I I'm you know, we have we both have kids in the fifth grade. We both have 10 year olds,   and it's a whole new world with the, like,  

[00:04:49] Unknown:

full on conversations about emotions and, like, how they wanna be respected and and their ability to kinda I mean, I'm proud of them to tell me. It's hard, though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's hard. That was a great example, though, of, you know, I have to talk about all the time, rupture and repair. Yeah. That's what happened. Right? It was like, oh, then it's like, alright.   Let's talk about it. You know?   Parents have feelings too. Moms have feelings too. But Yeah. And we are not these   just, like, perfect people around managing those at every given moment. So, like, yeah, sometimes you get the very human aspects of me, and sometimes I need to come to you and, you know, talk about that, and let's figure it out and all of that. And, honestly,   that happens   the the coming back and the the sharing the very human parts of yourself and coming back and discussing it   happens more and more the older they get because they're becoming they're moving more and more into adulthood and and, you know, socialization   and all of that. Right? So  

[00:05:44] Kim Forte:

the older we get, ideally, the more human we're getting to understand our parents to be. You know? But I also think, like, what I'm having to learn too is that the older they get, the more they actually have solutions for themselves too. And I have to, like, embrace the solutions that they have for themselves  

[00:06:01] Unknown:

Yeah. And, like, honor them. And if that was what works for them, why can't I do it a little bit? Like, why does it have to be the way it's supposed to be? Like, I'm working on it. Working on that. That's a transition, though. Right? Because you're going from parenting smaller kids to older kids. And this younger they are, the more hands on you need to be with them. The more you need to figure it out for them, the more you need to give them the answers. And now we're transitioning into like you said, they have some of the answers, but they don't have all the answers. So, like, where is that? Right. And we're moving into   right, from dependence to interdependence   Right. Which obviously is before independence. And so, like, the that is the which is why the teenage dude, that it's one of the reasons, at least, that I think that she would be able to balance it. They'll come back they'll come back. We can do a whole podcast  

[00:06:45] Kim Forte:

though on our interdependence.   Right? Not just theirs.   Mhmm. How much we define and depend on the role of doing all those jobs and and not having them anymore.  

[00:06:58] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. That's a very That trans very man. That's a very mom thing. How about you? High slows.   Let's see.   Highs.   Tristan is taking swim lessons   begrudgingly   because he knows how to swim. And I am saying I know you do, and I'd like you to be a stronger, more competent swimmer. It's for safety. So, like,   I semi I I can't even say I drag him at this point to swim because we pretty much have a deal. I bribed him. He gets Dunkin' Donuts after his swim lessons if he goes without a big fuss. Yeah. And I see him working hard at doing the thing. The Dunkin'. And so it's been working. So Dunkin. Thank you. Bribe your kids. With Dunkin. With Dunkin. And also,  

[00:07:38] Kim Forte:

Dunkin, advertise.  

[00:07:39] Unknown:

I know. I'm better than that. By the way, that actually just to take a quick detour.   This bottle of wine here, right, you're gonna probably see a different bottle, yep, episode.   But it's just it's a sponsorship  

[00:07:50] Kim Forte:

spot just waiting for any wine brands you might want to, you know By the way, Connecticut wine brands. We're in Connecticut, folks. Like, we'll go, you know, come to your winery, pick up some wine, and throw it right there out to mom moments at your winery. Woah. A 100 oh, mom moments at a come on. Come on. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Right that.  

[00:08:13] Unknown:

Mhmm.   Alright. Okay. We we digress. That that's some good stuff. Swimming lessons. Yes. So the high was that he went, and he's he's working hard. He's doing what he needs to do to make progress. So those that it really is a high for me.   And I try to make sure I I let him know that, like, I'm seeing the progress. And even if he's not willing to admit it to you, he sees it.  

[00:08:34] Kim Forte:

Even if he's you know? I know your son. And he's   a such a wonderful child. He's not gonna give you a win easily. He's like, you two have a particular relationship.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where, like, you know, it's gonna take him moments in life to   come be able to come to you and say,   I think,   that was a good idea. Right. Right. He'll never  

[00:08:57] Unknown:

say you're right.  

[00:08:59] Kim Forte:

Or, like, he'll never say thank you for the choice. Wasn't a bad idea. He'll no. He'll say I think it was a good idea.  

[00:09:06] Unknown:

But he won't admit it's your idea. He'll just say that to you. That idea that came from somewhere. Yes. So you're well into your eighties, and he's well into his, at that point, sixties. Right? Listen. I say, you know, when I'm working with clients, I'm like, parenting is a thankless job for many, many, many years. Maybe   for some, if their,   children grow up to either have kids or find themselves in caretaking roles or have people around them where they get to see the raising of kids, you might have, like, your your child come back and be like, I have a friend of a friend who wrote a whole book about it, and the book is called it. And I never read it. But maybe now that I have time, I should. It's called All Joy and No Fun.  

[00:09:42] Kim Forte:

And the whole premise is that, like, of course, being a parent is, like, the most joyful thing in your world, but there's nothing fun about it. About it. Like, it is not an   in the moment enjoyable thing even if it brings you joy. Yes. And there are times of enjoyment Mhmm. And, like, inner child moments and, like, all that stuff you get to share Right. And have. And there are times of sweetness and love and all those things, but is it fun? To describe parenting as fun, I don't know Nope. Know people who So that's a little plug for that book. I don't know. I haven't read it. I hope it's good. I'm really grateful. That sounds great, though. Now I'm gonna pick it up. Yeah. It's called All Joy, no fun. That speaks a little bit to something I have seen happening on social media. Like that. Google that. That's what it comes up. Google insisted.  

[00:10:25] Unknown:

Yeah. But this is something I've seen come up more and more on,   social media is,   one woman put it as resenting the role of motherhood and by no means regretting her children or having her children. But the actual job and the and the role   is a challenging one that she does not love the job of. And I think people can have their their they're gonna kinda be on a spectrum of their experiences of that. Yeah. But it does bring up this idea of, like, not pretending that because the job is worth it, that it means that it's all  

[00:11:00] Kim Forte:

joy. Right. Right. Exactly. Fabulous. Exactly. Yeah. It's like, I mean, you and I have talked about that, the whole fair play book and the,   game or the work of fair play where you really do break down the domestic work that occurs.   And when you do that if you haven't done that, no one's done that. I highly recommend doing that. Like,   I'm not saying that.   My spouse and I do a good job of actually making it fair all the time, but it will be astonishing to you to sit down and actually   in front of you about how much domestic labor   one partner is putting into the relationship. And I'm not gender in this moment because you could be watching this and be   two   people who identify as dads and and raising children. Right? So, like, the reality of just   who's doing the most domestic labor and what does that mean Right. For your relationship and your and your family? Because that, I think, is the same thing. The resentment of all that goes into the mom bucket, the quote, unquote mom bucket, the primary caretaker bucket,   and   what how much,   people are fine with letting that happen.  



[00:12:07] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:12:08] Kim Forte:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And don't take that moment to start, like, actually   laying the carts out. Like, how how you know, who's doing the laundry? Who's doing the dishes primarily? Who's doing the running of the children? Who's doing the who's doing that? Are you getting fair time for yourself? Are you getting fair time for yourself? Like, just the reality of, like, working through and I I'm not saying we've done it a few you know, sometimes.   We don't do it all the time.   But it is a it is an eye opening experience, and I think that goes a lot to the resentment of the role of motherhood. Yeah. That's a really good point. Absolutely.  

[00:12:43] Unknown:

Yeah, to the role of motherhood and all that comes with it. I guess, I say right now, low for me. I don't it's I don't even oh, do I like describing it as a low? It's a minor low, which is just like the checklist of things in my head that are, like, what I call the tedious task. So meaning some of them can be quick. Some of them can be easy in theory, but there's so many of them, and they're mixing with a bunch of other stuff that I'm like the wheels are spinning.   Even though I'm a list maker, so I have things locked in my calendar and and list and list and stuff like that. But for instance, trying to get Dorian's passport so that we can get married next year in Mexico.   I've been to the post office, like, three times, and there's been not an issue here, there, and everywhere. And so then finally mailed it all in only for the,   Government shutdown that happened? Well, for the government for the passport   office to send me a letter saying here are two things that aren't right, like, that we are not happy with. So you have ninety days to submit those. Yeah. So we're like so I'm like, okay. I got it to get his passport photo taken again.  

Third time.   So   when are you gonna do that? Again, in theory, it's an easy enough task, task, but I'm like, okay. Am I gonna do it after school on Thursday? Am I gonna do it after school on Friday?   All of that. The items add up. Mhmm. They add up. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just like there are things that I have that I think of it as, like, I even have a post it note where it's like, it will be a successful month if by the November, these things are done. And then I just go on to December's  

[00:14:06] Kim Forte:

things of, like, the December's all the labor of, like, the holiday season and the food it goes on that that gets added this time of year. So you're not even it's not like you're doing it in, like, this   peaceful, easy, easy March month where, like, kids are in school consistently for four weeks in your ears. I know. The kids don't go full calendar for November  

[00:14:26] Unknown:

is why it's anxiety provoking, actually.  

[00:14:29] Kim Forte:

Do you follow Nikki Marie Inc? She just said that. She was   like, so   what are you doing? Like, she's lost in. You know? She's like, what are you doing? What are you doing with your kids? Because I don't know. They don't have school on. They go to school Monday. They don't have to choose. I think this is the best part. You'll appreciate this. She goes, if you have a neurotic urgent household going to school one day, then not going to school. Oh, god.  

[00:14:52] Unknown:

It doesn't help. Doesn't help. She does this whole thing. You have to check it out and crack me. I am going to yes. I'm gonna need that because I don't know that I follow her back. I feel like I need to. Oh my god. Yeah. The was hysterical.   The   the upsetting of the routine of it all.   Yes. Particularly the neurodiver  

[00:15:13] Kim Forte:

to help solve this. Look. I don't I I get it. Like, the school system, but I'm like, why can't we do some of this in March? Like, why can't we   we go to there's no break.   November, there's no school. Like, it's Right. I know. It's like  

[00:15:28] Unknown:

I know.   Five months later, it's the polar opposite.  

[00:15:32] Kim Forte:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. I'm sorry. Okay. That's a little bit of a low. The school schedule is a low. So if you haven't gotten that message, we don't like the November school schedule.   Working through it. Working through it. Oh my god. I'm already from my glass line. Yeah. Tracing. Not good. Throw it up. Oh, it helps. What? Alright.  

[00:15:51] Unknown:

I mean, there's there's all sorts of things that, I I know I meant to, like, mention some of the things we've discussed. We thought of things like intergenerational   friendship,   older parenting,   you know,   married with kids,   career shifts, and transitions because this in as something you mentioned just a little earlier that you're taking a course. Right? Yeah. Yeah. For I'm, I've been practicing law and and on and off, but, for the last  

[00:16:19] Kim Forte:

twenty five, twenty six years and and did some other things a few times.   But now   I'm   really focused on becoming a mediator   and, like, a peacemaker.   It was weird. I had, like, a,   like,   is this the right word? Transcendental   transcendental   moment. Is that how you say that? Mhmm. I didn't don't put it against me. Oh, like, transcendent? Transcendent.  

[00:16:45] Unknown:

Transcendental moment. Transcendental  

[00:16:48] Kim Forte:

moment. Is that how you say it? I don't know. Cut that out. I   was but I did. I I have this moment at the end of my course where I was super emotional in the graduation part and then all this stuff and just I it look. It happened also because speaking of, like, marriage and relationships, on   Friday,   the court the US Supreme Court heard a case where their the person is asking that they rechallenge gay marriage, and the court is gonna decide whether or not they're willing to open the question and all that kind of stuff. And so it was very it was like a weird day to be in a divorce   relationship mediation while the court's like, do you even have a marriage? Right. Or should you have one, or should states say you can't have one again, and all that kind of stuff. So I was feeling a lot of emotion going into the day.  

And I had done some   supportive work, not not a not not of the main work on that case, but certainly from the work that I was doing at the time was queer rights work when   the gay marriage actually happened and   was very personal, obviously.   I'm queer identified for those of you who are watching and haven't figured that out by the conversation.   So,   so, yeah, so it was super emotional. And I have this transcendent   moment where, like, I've always been a litigator, and I've always   been this person who's been an advocate, and I've always been a fighter and a fighter and a fighter. And, like,   I felt myself surrendering.  

I don't know you as a therapist. Maybe people have this experience in other in other ways, but I sort of felt myself surrendering to this idea of  

[00:18:20] Unknown:

peacemaking.  

[00:18:20] Kim Forte:

Yeah. Because that is the purpose of these like like, if you go through mediation course or you go through Actually, do you wanna talk a little bit about what mediation is? I don't think that Yeah. So, I mean, it can be in anything, but it could be used in multiple it's often used in community based, like, issues going on with neighbors or small claims court or you know? But I particularly was going going through a divorce relationship mediation course where,   you know, the concept of mediation is that it's all self driven. Like, it's a self driven idea. So, like, you you can   look to the divorce law and legislation   and expectations of child and spousal support and all those things as guidelines. But, ultimately, you can decide your the end of your marriage in any way you want.  

You can decide how your money goes to each other. You can decide how   you wanna tell your children together. You can decide   how long you let each other live in your family home without there being litigation around. You know, all those decisions are in your own power in mediation. Yeah. And so the concept of it is a very self driven,   confidential,   transparent   process where, hopefully, both parties are coming into it, leaving each other in the best possible financial and emotional experience at the end of it that they can. And most importantly, focusing completely on the child   Yeah. As the driving force if they have children together as to why they're making these decisions. And not leaving each other, like,   eating as one of my trainers said, like, eating a can of tuna in the rain. Like, that's you love this person at some point. That's an image. You know? Like,   you you there was a time when you only wanted the best for them. Let's tap into and and you only want the best for your child. So your child's going to be with them. That is such sorry. That that moment, that is such a big like,  

[00:20:10] Unknown:

that part. Right? Because it's so easy for people to see. Like, my ex is getting x out of this. It's like, if your ex is not okay, your child's not okay.  

[00:20:19] Kim Forte:

Exactly.   Exactly. That mind shift is like it's yes. There is, like and we can talk, like I mean, come on. We have mutual friends. We talk about revenge, love all the time,   and things that you do sometimes in relationships. But in the reality, if you have children together and your child is going to that other person has a home with the other parent Yeah. And   you want that home to be as safe, full of the same foods, the same access, the same everything. Be And listen. I don't this is a very, like,   shortened conversation about not everyone is not every relationship is meant for mediation. There are people in   need of having very strong advocates in their corner. But even what I learned through this course is that even people who are in,   you know, relationships   where their physical self is in   you know, doesn't isn't safe or they've experienced, you know, inter partner violence and,   where there is a balance of power, sometimes it's empowering for them to be in charge of their own process and not to be retraumatized through the court process.  

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because you have to be cross examined and deposed. And like, those are not easy things. No. And so as, you know, it's really made me think, I think, to one of the, like, emotional moments was really realizing what kind of lawyer I was. And did I really put   peace first,   or did I put   getting it right or winning first? And I don't know that I did put peace first. I probably didn't,   in most cases. And I think to some degree, it's a self reflection of, like,   you know, the whole point of family law is to to take care of families.   And so, like, it it you know, it's this feeling good moment of maybe I can do some good and make people   reconstruct their family and rebuild it in a different way and in a different picture, but still with love.  

That's what I hope. Right. Mediation is for folks. Yeah. Long definition there. Here's to mediation journey. Thank you. I appreciate that. Appreciate the support.  

[00:22:27] Unknown:

Yeah. So   what else is going on?   What's going on?   No. I mean,  

[00:22:37] Kim Forte:

I'm you know,   I feel like   this time of year is always this rush from, like,   the start of school to the first of the year. Mhmm. And it's just a mad 50 yard   dash. Mhmm. And,   you know,   I don't know how you feel, but I don't know that I do a good enough job finding time   to   support myself. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.  

[00:23:10] Unknown:

Yeah.   That's yeah. Every mom everywhere.  

[00:23:14] Kim Forte:

I know. Like, I I feel like they're and I know that's, like, a thing where everyone says that, but and I make commitments to myself, and then I don't keep them. Yeah.   And that doesn't feel good all the time. And I'm not sitting here trying to Debbie down myself on you know? Oh, take that out for the Debbie. Sorry.  

[00:23:31] Unknown:

It's okay. I don't think we're offending any Debbie's. Thanks. Just clip it. I'm sure anyone named Debbie is used to Sorry. To this phrase.   Sorry. We're keeping it in. Debbie's no offense.  

[00:23:43] Kim Forte:

You know? And so I, you know,   I I just wish, like, I was better at committing to myself. I mean, look. This this self this mediation course is a big, investment in myself. And so I think, like, to that extent, I'm investing  

[00:23:58] Unknown:

in myself, but I mean more on the lighter fashion thing. Just like pick up a damn book and read it, Pam. Free. Joy, excitement, peace. Yes. Yes. How that's how I describe self care. So let me give my my little my little spiel.   Self care is something that I define as anything that brings you a sense of peace, joy, or excitement.   And it's unique to the individual. It's not one size fits all except for these five basic areas of self care that every human needs to thrive, which is sleeping, eating well, moving our bodies,   supportive social connection   Right. And boundary setting. Those five things, all humans need that to thrive. Don't get good sleep,   not a good thing. Right. Not feeding yourself well, not a good thing. Right? Outside of that, it's like, do you like reading? Do you like hiking? Do you like naps? We can go on and on and on. But   moms are notorious for being some of the worst at being able to identify   what self care is for them. Yeah. Because   We're constantly  

[00:24:53] Kim Forte:

I think wait. Wait. Can I just stop you?   You just said the op the best word.   The right word to me is identifying.   I think part of it, it's like everyone   this whole idea of, like, mom self care and self care and whatever, it's like every I don't know. I always feel like, am I supposed to know what that is?   What am I supposed to know that I need to do? I don't know. And I, you know, I I don't know what I wanna do. I don't know what I'm interested in. I don't who who has the time to even   identify it? And I think   that is such   a hard,   like,   you know,   leap for folks just   identifying what I need care for you. Need self care for me, and what does it really look like. Yeah. And so you get so overwhelmed with the consents   concept of just identifying it Yeah. That then   identifying and doing something about it seems so insurmountable. So it's like, I'd rather just doom scroll Right. Or, like, play my game. I Or or I don't doom scroll. I mean, I'm not too celebrity   newsread.  

Mhmm. So I don't doom scroll. Okay. Because I I had to stop doom scroll scrolling in 2020. Like, once Oh, that'd be a good year to yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stopped it. Stopped Facebook. Stopped doing scrolling. Downhill more there. Scrolling, I stopped,   you know, all the quick   spin off. I'm not gonna mention their names and give them clout here.   Kind of social media things just went to the gram and, like, stayed in the picture land.   But,   I,   I think really what happens is you get to the point where it's like, yes. I do need and everyone's like, do something for yourself. Right. You're like, what? I wish you well. Like, are you taking care of yourself? And you're just like  

[00:26:36] Unknown:

I know how long it's Well,  

[00:26:38] Unknown:

I will answer my question. Answer it. Doctor. Should should you know the answer is yes. And, understandably,   we oftentimes do not know.   And tools that you Yeah. You're gonna do a little exercise. It's it's actually No. I I mean It's the most short giving therapy right here. But we're not there. We're not there. Not as in the It's the most simple thing.   Yeah. But what it is is that you're we're actually taking time and space to your point to do it because it actually   this is what I literally do with clients. I'm like, okay. What is self care for you?   No. No. Yeah. And then I'm like, alright. Let's just do a little extra.  

And not literally, even the build up to this is gonna be so anti climatic. Like, it is it is literally making a list. Do it. But here it is. I would say to you, I I usually say get out a piece of paper or get something to type with. We are going to make a list of any and everything that you can think of   that does   or has at some point   in your lifetime   brought you a sense of peace,   joy, or excitement. And then what I do is I'll have you just start listing certain things. And here is a key factor. I am not asking you to list only things that you actually do because there will be about three things on that list. I am asking you to list anything that you recognize,  

[00:28:00] Kim Forte:

you have done, or if you did it, it would be nice to do. Right? Which means then we start something that I aspire to do. It could be conspired to be done in that. Even if only once and it brought me joy. Yep. And spend a picture of it. Consistently or do in moderation.  

[00:28:15] Unknown:

That makes me happy. So this list ends up being it can be big that ends up being bigger than, like, three thirty because be fair. You're listing all the things. Right? And so then I have you and so I'll have you do this in a moment. I have you kinda just   whatever comes to mind. And then what I do to help clients along is I just start listing   various things. I'm not gonna list a bunch of things. If they apply to you, meaning, they these things do or would or you believe they would bring you peace to your excitement, you're gonna write it on your list. Right. By the end, we have a bigger list than any body thinks they would have because we are including   things that you don't actually currently do, which is part of the the,   I don't know if you would say issue, which is there are a number of the I I say, like, oh, maybe you you used to paint. You don't paint anymore. You you lost that. I used to play the flute. I loved it. I don't play the flute anymore. Right. But I that would go on my list   because when I do it I think it's a good thing to do with this and go. I don't know if I did we I think we've talked about that. This one? I did. I don't like the move. Only through middle school. Regret not doing it in marching band. Huge regret. I'd started marching. It wasn't for me. Marching band was for me. I quit marching band. I love concert band. Tristan's picking up the flute now. So I actually he's using my old flute. Oh my god. Together.  

Oh, mom. I said It's a mom. That's a generation.   I got I, like, took a broom in my bed. I dusted it off. I was like, let me show you how to use this. And, yeah, that's the flute he takes to school. It's my I listen. My kids are two trumpet players. I'm already talking to them about college scholarships to you know?   Yeah. Top tier schools or or big, you know, big state universities where they could go and get a scholarship. Yeah. Be a huge fan. There you go. There we go. So, yeah, I would put something like playing the flute, but I don't currently do that. Right? Mhmm. Because   to then take that further when I'm actually working with clients on, okay, we really do need to institute some self care into your your life. We're gonna then take this list, and we're gonna identify I want you to star some that you either want to continue doing that maybe you're already doing and some that you'd like, oh, I'd like to bring this back in. You know? I I would like to start doing this or do this more consistently. And then the other piece of this is the thing about self care is   it is about   making it fit for your life. So there are some self care tasks that are daily that you could do daily. It's easy to do daily. Maybe you like taking naps and you're someone who can get a daily lamp, or maybe it's doing a ten minute meditation. Right. Some things are gonna be more of a weekly thing. Some things are gonna be monthly, maybe a massage. Other things are gonna be every few months, maybe a trip. But do you see how, like,   all of these I mean, self care can be taking a warm shower if that is something that feels good to you. Right. Right? So that might be a daily self care task. Whereas taking a trip is maybe a couple of times a year task. Right? Yeah. So then what you would do, right, is you would actually, like, write this down or type this this up. Because what I say to people is, I want you to keep so we we title it our self care activity list. Yeah. And you keep it somewhere where you can easily access it. Save it on your computer, put it on your wall, whatever. Right. Because the idea is you're going to add to this list over time as you think of things because you are randomly gonna think of it. You're gonna be like, oh my gosh. I haven't done that thing in, like, such a long time. Gave me, which I think is great, and we actually do.  



[00:31:14] Kim Forte:

You know, Tracy had this great advice, which was that   Tina and I   Tina is my spouse, and we used to just do the same thing, which was, like, we're foodies. We would go to restaurants, and that's what we would get to. But after a while, it's like,   you know, one financially, it becomes like, how much   money can I spend on a different flavored steak   or whatever I'm eating, chicken anyways?   And I and I think as we get older, not to, like, get into much of the, like, I'm getting older. My body is changing. But the truth of the matter is is your body does change, especially as a woman through menopause and perimenopause.   And,   you know, you can't eat like you're going out at 25, 35, 40, and you can, like, go and, you know, eat whatever you want. It's a different life. It's a different way you want to eat when you're in your fifties and sixties because you want to not that we're in our sixties, but, we're certainly thoughtful of those years and, you know, kind of trying to do different things. And Tracy had this great idea, which was,   just put crazy stuff on there. But whatever have you ever wanted to do on a date? And I was like, well, we're not gonna do those things. And Tracy goes, it doesn't matter. And I thought that was so brilliant. And it was like, it doesn't matter if you're gonna do them. Just need a bucket to pull it from. And you need a bucket to pull from. And,   you know, we put candlelight concert on it, and we have tickets.  

We're going to see Adele, and we took our kids. Even more importantly, what it led to too was a great family date. They had a candlelight Halloween   concert.   And we went to this beautiful church with all of these, like, non flamed, obviously, like,  

[00:32:52] Unknown:

family. I love the candlelight performance. And,  

[00:32:55] Kim Forte:

our kids watched a string quartet play all their favorite Halloween music. And so it was, you know, it was even an opportunity that made me realize that and even as I'm saying this out loud to myself is I should make a family date list. Yeah. So that do you have to insert  

[00:33:11] Unknown:

we do not have an official, like, one. We have Tracy's notes on her phone when she gets many of  

[00:33:17] Kim Forte:

them from you and Tina. I'm like, oh, we should do that. Which we always have in the snow cast. So I need to Connecticut. You don't have and spent the last you know? I just got back from a Georgetown, Connecticut today, and we have to say it was a beautiful day. Did I not put in the intro that also, like, aspiring   I'm just talking TikTok artists about, like,   family day trips, family tripping, because   I I do feel like I've done the art   of, like, working around the traditional kind of expectations of  

[00:33:48] Unknown:

I have little little spots, little joy. I have a note on my phone that is entitled now, Keena, because it's it's Tina and Kim. Keena. Keena, get your life the Keena get your life list, which is to say, it lists all the things that   the two of them are like, have you done? And we're like, no. Oh, you haven't done. And then we get this amazing,   just put it on TikTok or Instagram,  

[00:34:12] Kim Forte:

pretty much reel of all the things to do in that place that you're wearing have. You've done for today? I'm just gonna give mine today. Haven't you done? Haven't you gone to Georgetown, Connecticut? Your answer is I haven't. So here's my response to you.   Georgetown, Connecticut is this beautiful little   kinda two street   downtown. I mean, it's obviously much larger than that. It's on a river.   I've only lived in Connecticut six years. Sorry. I can't name the rivers.   But you can find hiking very close by. You can find bike trails very close by. Your dog is welcome in the space, all that kind of stuff. So it's a really flexible environment. Yeah. And   a lot of the stuff that I've given advice about,   flexibility came from coming out of the pandemic and me figuring out with two asthmatic children how to   live with them and, like, never feel scared. Right. And I have like, I can feel pretty scared about stuff like that. So,   so, anyway, so we found Georgetown in the pandemic. Like, it was like a place where they had great outdoor and now we go all the time. I mean, we don't go as much as we used to, but there's some great restaurants there that have been there a while and some new ones that have opened recently. But, like, a really great place that we saw was   the Georgetown Owl, which is a pub and a and a restaurant and a provisions place. Wow.  

We literally drove there just to get this particular spice that we like, the daily grind.   And we didn't know where we got it, but we got it there. So we were like, let's get in the car instead of ordering it online. Yeah. And we drove up a bit. Oh, a bit. That.   So, anyway,   so go see the George go to the Georgetown Owl, have coffee, have a sandwich, have lunch, have brunch.   But don't just go there. There is also uncorked.   There's a bunch of different,   incredible Connecticut places that are and we went to the trip there's a barbecue place there, and, oh my god, we ate there today. It's on the corner. It was beautiful.   Outdoor fire pit. Yeah.  

Really incredible.   And,   but, anyway, so that's my that's what you should do. Go to the shop and pick it for the day. It's going in the Keena. Yeah. It's going in the Keena. Get your life list. Like, that's don't wanna put it. Kids. You get them out of the car. You make them walk around. Yeah.  

[00:36:22] Unknown:

So we're gonna just,   you know, edit this footage for  

[00:36:27] Kim Forte:

Kim's first reel on that boat going on in How can I get?   I don't I think of my San Diego reel all the time in you. I'm gonna, like   you have to go   I gave Tracy great advice on a day in San Diego, and she took it. She went to San Diego six months after we did it. Took the advice and had a great day at Coronado Beach in San Diego. If you haven't gone to Coronado Beach and you're in San Diego Here we go. Five over the We're doing it. We're getting paid the day pass at the beach cabana. What was the name of the hotel? The Coronado Beach Hotel. I think of yeah. I think it's the Coronado Beach Hotel. Pay the day pass.  

[00:36:59] Unknown:

The golden sand Listen. Worth it. There is this informal standing,   consent that I've that I've told Kim she has given, which is at any point where she starts going to one of her have you done? You haven't done? I'm just gonna press record on my phone, and she's I've told her she's given me consent to just press record. Yes. And then I will just give her the content because she goes into this entire,   like, description   of, like I'm like, yes. This this is stuff you could be offering the people   consistently   about, like, day trips they can do, family trips they can do, all of that sort of stuff. So we can   go on and on about that. No. On and on about that. It's coming.  

But yeah. So to the oh, the thing I wanna say about self care, and you mentioned, like, oh, family dates. So, yes, I say there are these three buckets. There's,   self care, couples care, and family care. Yeah. All buckets need to be put into   in order to feel   good, and we notice the impacts of any of those buckets being underfilled.   So when you don't have enough just things for yourself and self care,   you feel depleted and don't show up as your as your best self as a parent or a partner or for yourself. Right. When the couple relationship, meaning just you and your partner,   not the kids involved, like, you connecting as human beings. Because parents are always connecting as parents Right. Which comes with the good, the bad, and the ugly, but just connecting us to humans who are interested in one another. Right? So that's the couple's bucket.  

Then there's the family bucket, which is you, your partner, and your children, and also maybe extended family. Really, your circle, your community, you might need. So so maybe there's the community bucket too, really. But the idea being that you feel like you are getting the you connection, the me and my partner connection, the me and my kids connection, family connection, and the me and my community connection. It is so hard, though, because  

[00:38:40] Kim Forte:

trying to   input in all of those buckets at all times, it's almost insurmountable to me. I don't know how you do that. Clear. Yes.  

[00:38:49] Unknown:

Because I don't think it's realistic. This is like the idea of having a fifty fifty split in life. Like, equality in, like, the relationship   is when it comes to, like,   domestic or any task. Right? It's not a fifty fifty It never. Split is not realistic for life. Right? It's really what's equitable. So same with these buckets. You're not you're gonna have all four of these buckets filled to the top at all times. No. No. Because that's not life. But you wanna   be working at filling each of them a bit. And you might see that one's depleted, and you're like, alright. We need to do a little more family stuff. Oftentimes,   mom's  

[00:39:22] Kim Forte:

self care bucket is very dry Yes. And empty. And so that's one that we need flipped. Gonna see full, like, a full transparency and disclosure. I was filling myself bucket with friends and go and, like, a lot of that and really had to have a shock   with my spouse saying, like, you're not like, you haven't tried Mhmm. To fill that r bucket in the same way. Mhmm. And so I think yeah. I hear you, but I also think we can   too sometimes forget,   that we did choose to do this with somebody, for those of us who are married.   And I'm always, like, I'm always thinking, like, I gotta get out of this house. I gotta get out of this house, and I do. Mhmm. But there's also somebody else who has to get out of this house. A  

[00:40:09] Unknown:

house.  

[00:40:10] Kim Forte:

Yeah. And I think, like, oh, you know, and I and   I always   I think people do this, and it's what we do to each other in our partnerships and in our marriages. It's like   you're like, oh, that's your experience, and they assume   the other. You assume each other's experience without actually saying, how are you experiencing this? Yeah. How often do we ask our Yeah. Yeah. Donald Trump that question. How are you experiencing this thing? Because this is how I'm experiencing it. And I don't feel good or I feel great or whatever. And if you feel great, you're not never asking that question. Because you're just not gonna get great. If you're feeling great, they're probably not feeling so good. Right. Right. Right. Right. Because something's not going there. You know? So   so So checking in. Checking in. Checking in on that partner bucket, that spouse bucket, and kind of saying, like, how are you experiencing what we're going through right now? Yeah. Yeah.  

And even as I say this out loud, like, I don't know that I've asked Tina that recently in that same way. Like, you just say, like, how are you experiencing   what we're going through? And whether it's joy   and I never ask about joy. And I I realize in my own therapy,   I have my therapist calling me out on that a little bit. Mhmm. Where it's like, are you asking? And I'm like, no.   Because I can see it. It's like, can you? Mhmm.  

[00:41:31] Unknown:

And  

[00:41:33] Kim Forte:

you can't. Yeah. No. No. No. No. You can't see emotion. You can't.   You cannot see it. And you have to ask, and   and I'm working on it. That's a hard   thing, especially for someone who is   you know me, very direct, very honest about my emotions.   If I'm not upset,   you won't hear anything. And it's kinda like, how are you doing? Well, I'm great. Like, there's nothing to hear. Yeah. But if I am, you're gonna hear You're gonna hear it. Yeah.   And but that also is a like, I have to realize there's a freedom in that for me   where it's like   because once I release it, it's like I release it. I'll deal with it. We can talk about it. Right. But, you know, I don't know that you know, in Tina or in my spouse, there's a   same way that you talk about emotion from their perspective and their experience, and it's not like that. They're not gonna express it in the way that I am so directly. Yeah. And so I have to ask because I have to know who they are. I have to know that that's who they are. They they are in a relationship with me, and they need someone somewhat to say, how are you experiencing this experience? Space to do it,  

[00:42:45] Unknown:

really to make it feel psychologically   safe Yeah. To express ourselves in the ways that we express ourselves. And you also said something about, like,   you were filling that self care bucket, like, with friends and going out and be like, I need to get out. So you go out and realize and go, but this other person also needs some of these things. But but when maybe how you guys   initiate that is different, and therefore,  

[00:43:05] Kim Forte:

having to think enough to check-in with that other person, I'm like, are you getting what you need here? Yeah. Is this working for you? Going out a lot. I I see that you're not going out. Do you wanna go out? Right. Right. Like, the experiences this is like, maybe they don't wanna experience their self care the way you do. Absolutely. So going back to the individual. Is, like, we're talking about it just from our perspective as mom. Unique to the individual.   You there's also someone else who should be filling their self care bucket, and are you letting them fill that? And I think we think of it,   in traditional means where it's, like, if you're in a heterosexual   relationship or a heteronormal relationship, it's like, oh, guys are gonna go do guy and things. Whatever. Maybe they're not. Maybe their self care is like, could you and the kids get the   blank out of this dang house? Right. And, like, I love how I can just curse ten minutes ago, and now I'm worried about the language. Yeah. I don't know. Why. Yeah. Bye. I don't know. But, like, maybe it is. Like, get the fuck out of the house. Like, can you leave? Because I would like to just be in my house in my underwear and play video game. Yeah. Yeah. For, like, two and a half hours, three hours. And I don't want the kids to see me in my underwear playing video games like a like, someone who could completely relax, or I wanna sleep.  

Mhmm. Can you leave so I can sleep? Mhmm. You know, we don't know. Like, there are different things. Like, I really wanted a nap today and   or yesterday, and my family didn't leave. But it was fine   that they didn't. But then in hindsight, it's kinda like, maybe could I have said I'm going into the guest room? I'm doing a  

[00:44:32] Unknown:

flight. This is yeah. This is And I'm taking a nap. I have a very deliberate   hour of quiet time in the morning that I've blocked out for myself. This started before Josh and I that. This started before Josh and I met and before we moved in together and before so when I was single momming it, like, kids. Just as a mom for you? I did as because I started realizing when I woke up just moments before I woke the kids up, I was a   worse off person   that that day Yeah. Which was I woke up to kind of, like,   stress   Yeah.  

And didn't get that that space. And as especially as a single mom, when I really thought about my day, I realized I got no moments to myself because they would be there getting the kids together, gonna have to give them, like, alright. They're at school. Now I'm working. I'm like, okay. And when when I'm not working,   I need to go run errands, and then I need to pick up the kids. And then I you know? Right? And so then I said, you know what? And, again,   you have to tailor this to what works for you. I am a morning person, so it is reasonable for me. What I started doing this is this is what I decided to do. I was like, I wake my kids up at 06:45AM.   I need an hour, and I don't get that. So here's the thing. I get that once they're in bed, but me   not being a night owl But you get it. Exhausted. Right. Exactly. Fall asleep. I couldn't read. I couldn't watch TV.  

Right? So I was like, your morning your quiet time is gonna happen in the morning. So I became intentional. Now I've been doing this for a few years   now. 05:45AM.   I have an alarm that goes off every morning except the weekends. No. That's not true. Might go off on the weekends. Whatever. That goes off at 05:45AM.   I wake up,   and I have my coffee. Back Back when I lived in my old place, I lived on a pond. I'd look out the window. I have swans on the pond. I did all of this before my kids woke up to the extent I became so serious about this quiet time because of how it transformed   my day Mhmm. That my older son, who is more like me, is more of a morning person. Sometimes he would wake up before 06:45 in the morning on occasion. And I had a conversation with him. So he was young, but we started having these conversations. So now he fully understands mommy's quiet time. I was like, hey. I mommy needs a certain amount of time Right. For herself. If you wake up before 06:45 in the morning,   obviously, if it's an emergency or something you immediately need, I I am here for you. But if it's not that, I start breakfast after 06:45. I start getting you ready for school after 06:45.  

Mommy just needs time to herself.   Because, you know, as kids do, he's up with all the domain.   Can I have breakfast?   Yeah. All of that. Right? And I know, like, there like, I've done a lot of work to, like, overcome, like, mom guilt and urges around, like, just because I'm not making breakfast for my child at 6AM doesn't mean he's gonna starve. Right? Like Right. 06:45 is the time I usually get them up to start making breakfast. I am going to feed my child Right. Before he goes to school   just because he wakes up. And at that moment, it's like, I'm hungry. Right.   Well, I know he's not gonna start. Yeah. And you have kids at two different ages where you have one who's still expecting that and one who's above the ages. Like, if you're that darn hungry, you can find something you need to eat. Like, I don't But I started this Yeah. Before he was, like, that age. Right? But we have these conversations where it became, like, a sacred time for me. Yeah. But the wonders like, when I tell you the difference between my functioning   of having that quiet time versus not, I realized the   importance of it, so I protected it. Which means now, fast forward, to me moving in with with my now husband   and our four kids. So Yeah. The whole house.  

I I that was a conversation we had before, and I was like, in the morning That's good. I need time to not talk. He would, like, wake up.   Like, if I wake up   and happens to wake him up,   he is capable of just starting to talk to me about whatever. Like, oh,   and I started realizing the frustration   that welled up in me when he would do that. And I was like,   I need to let you know that I need to I literally wake up early intentionally so that no one else is awake. Yeah. And I would like to have my coffee before I have my caffeine in me. It's not good.   I don't wanna talk. He's like, I understand that. So he literally says to me now, he's like, I'm glad you have your quiet time. I'm like, thank you. And I leave the room and I go downstairs. I need to do more of this because I think for me is, like, there I inherently,  

[00:48:49] Kim Forte:

I have both worked out of the home, in the home,   had different types of schedules through the last six years that we've been in Connecticut. Always worked out of the home when we lived in New York City, and and we're raising kids there. But,   there are days where, like, Tina and I will be in the house, like, multiple days together.   And I'm like   and then the kids come, and it's the two of us and the kids. And I'm like and now, fortunately, we just you know, we a new dog joined our life and and our family, and so I get some walking time. But even that is a responsibility.   Right. I get   so rarely   time that there's I have no responsibility. Right. Yeah. I'm not looking after a human or worried about their existence or well-being.  

Well, I'm always worried about the our children's well-being, but you know what I mean? But what do you mean to be conscious of that? Or or being having an ear out? Do Do you need something? Do you want something? Is this something break? You know, what am I gonna do? Or the dog needs a walk or the dog needs   or someone needs attention. And and   and you're right. I mean, preserving   a a time for yourself and figuring that out and knowing that, like, it's only yours and no one can touch it. Yeah. It,   I have to get back to this. I'm gonna put it on my list that you did about my self care care list. I'm gonna put this out. It's not like I used to sit, and I'm gonna start doing this again when everybody went to bed and just listen to music, my music, my music from college, my music from law school, my music from when Tina and I met, like, all the music that, like, filled my life for so many years that I don't   really get the chance to listen to   because I'm so busy doing other things   that, like,   I   don't take the time to, like, remember that feeling and that connection. And so  

[00:50:43] Unknown:

Yep. Yep. Do late night music. I'm going back to it. You just inspired me. Thank you. I'm a big fan of, like, Papa Matt. That's one of the things I do during my quiet time or during my cooking time or some period of time where I'm letting, like, the kids and the family know, hey. I'm in I'm in the zone a little bit here. Obviously, you need me to, like, tap me. But that's so now and this is actually a fairly new thing. I'm starting to say this, and now I'm like, take my headphone out. Because people just start coming into the room, blah blah blah blah blah. Can't can't hear you. If you want me to hear you Right. Come take it out. Yeah. Or if you're just talking, cool. But I want you to know   I'm not intentionally ignoring you, but I don't hear you.  



[00:51:22] Kim Forte:

I've worked very deliberately, and this is part of mediation, by the way. I don't mean to be, like, the big mediator plug, but I'm kind of becoming a, you know What's your thing? A peacemaker. It's my it's my jam. It's my jam right now. So one of the tenements is, like, naming it, like, naming what it you're seeing in the space   even if it's negative, and, like, it might cause awkwardness or uncomfortable   experiences. But the truth is it's still existing. And if you don't point it out, I'm sure you just there'll be all that you can't do much about it. Can't do much about it if you don't wanna admit that it's happening. So, like, I literally the number of times that I and it both angers me, and yet I'm hoping I'm hoping it's saying soon.   Sometimes it does.  

Mhmm. But the number of times I'm like, do you see?   I want you to observe   what it is that you are witnessing.   Because here's what you realize is your kids aren't actually looking at you at all.   So they actually have patience. That you respond.   I think, like, part of this is, like, parenting guilt here.   Sorry. I know. Don't do it to yourself, but I'm gonna do it.  

[00:52:28] Unknown:

The no guilt zone long moments.  

[00:52:31] Kim Forte:

Here's the reality. They are raised on machines that give them instant gratification, instant whatever. The the images are running all the time. The and that and that imprints into their brain. And they have images that run-in their brain in ways we never will because we've never   been in that digital experience in the same way. Yeah. And you probably have more digital images in your brain than I do in mine because I am more removed from that experience. Right? But the reality is is half the time you have to say, can you just, like,   read the room? Like, read   what is happening. Do you see your parent   focused on a task   that   half the time, I'm like, there's   open fire. Like, I  

[00:53:14] Unknown:

I'm coming.   There's things happening.   Experience a burn,   and you're like, mom, look over here. No. I don't look over here. A lot when they're driving. I'm like, cannot turn my head around  

[00:53:27] Unknown:

or we crash into   something.  

[00:53:31] Unknown:

Say it all the time. I'm like,  

[00:53:33] Kim Forte:

so I literally cannot look because Exactly.  

[00:53:37] Unknown:

I need to look at the road because I'm driving  

[00:53:40] Kim Forte:

a car.   So if you need the response,   describe it. I'm like, could you describe what it is that you want me to see? So if it's and they're like, oh, never mind. I'm like,   okay. We are gonna learn   some social etiquette. Prioritization.  

[00:53:58] Unknown:

Like, what's First, the observation occurs.  

[00:54:02] Kim Forte:

If the statement   is not congruent   to the observation   of the person whose attention you are trying to get, then you don't make statement,   then you don't make the statement   so many times. Do you see what I'm doing? Can you can is this and it's the most least   urgent?  

[00:54:23] Unknown:

So much so that now when they   Oh, yeah. Urgent thing talk about this. Like, it's like the dog is hanging from his leg   of the rafters. I'm like, oh, shit. The kids are like, yeah. I've been trying to tell you from twenty minutes. But this is how you think you're not supposed to  

[00:54:40] Unknown:

also try to tell me for twenty minutes that some thing YouTuber is shouting about some blah blah blah. Yes. Or you You drew a thing in your class.   I drew a thing. Okay. Look at this now. I can't. I'm cooking three pieces of your meal to get on your thing because the nutritionist says it should be three thing.  

[00:55:01] Unknown:

It has to be three things every night. I have to answer.  

[00:55:06] Unknown:

Oh goodness.   I mean, yeah, it could be a whole other thing. The nervous system of a mom.   That's a scary place.   That's a that's a that's a That's an interesting time. I'm like, can you observe?  

[00:55:19] Kim Forte:

Because I also wanna say to them, what are you gonna how do you read social life or the world   going forward if you can't see that your mother is doing something   and yet you think you can just go on, do you think your teacher is gonna let you   in high junior high, high school be like, I know that you're trying to teach me these, you know, equations or whatever, but my shit's not.  

[00:55:42] Unknown:

They just want it to happen.  

[00:55:44] Unknown:

And see, here's the crap, though. They don't do that crap to their teachers. Of course not. And then then, I mean, that that in of itself is another thing. Yeah. I mean and we talk about this, like, in there real time. Like, yeah, the responses and behaviors you get.   Right? You're you're you're doing a good job if your children feel very safe with you. Meaning, safe to give you all of their stuff, the good, the bad, the ugly, their worst self, their best self, the right? Because that's part of what that is Right.   Is with our parents,   when we feel well nurtured and cared for and safe Yes. We can melt down. We can be our braddiest self. We can be our idiot self. We're like you know, we do try to walk into the room with a little more decorum   in these, like Right. In school or I I mean I mean, the age old thing with parents. Right? It's like you drop their child off at someone's house. Yeah. They're like, oh my gosh. They were dumb. You're like I mean, we say this to each other's house. This is like,   did wait. Did I drop? Was it this tall? I mean, your kids are great. I mean, I just had But we don't have we don't have terrible kids or anything like that. And yet we get attitude from our kids and we get Kids are terrible.  

Oh, yes. And disclaimer.   Come on. Do this is not just my children. There is a difference. And I think, like, we can talk about that if we want, but I'm gonna hate to. But we don't experience entitled children. Correct. And, yeah, that's a difference. And, yeah, you get because humans who live in close proximity and who are close, you get the attitude of your kids. You get the this and you get the that. That,   like, we don't tend like, that our kids don't tend to give   the other person. Does this make sense? Right? Yes. So, like, when they're like, they were our dream, and they were like, they're like, oh.   Well, that's   nice. That's nice. It's like, oh, you ate that thing here that you bite me about eating in? Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's the other thing. This stuff. Don't you love that? It's like, oh, I ate a hole, and you're like, you The stuff that just then comes from his friend's house talking about, he tried. If I ever tried to feed that to you in our home   I love that about your I'm like, well Your kitchen eating a peanut. And I was like, Tracy, he ate all this stuff, and you're like, Maybe to get him well and fully nourished. I take a day at everyone's house. I'm like, if you can get Monday so that he'll eat peas, and if you can get Wednesday so he'll eat some chicken, I might have a full, like, a well balanced meal in him. Because otherwise at my house,   I don't like that. I don't like I know it's I don't I used to like that. I don't like it anymore.  

What okay. If by you shooting me last week, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I that  

[00:58:09] Kim Forte:

phenomenon,   that, like,   I'm gonna eat it, eat it, eat it. This is what I wanna eat, and then all of a sudden they hate it.   What? Yeah. There's definitely some, like, developmental stuff. Buy, like, a case of something? Yeah.  

[00:58:22] Unknown:

I went to Costco,  

[00:58:24] Unknown:

and I got you through your favorite thing that you've been asking for. When we didn't have enough of it, I was horrible. Over it, and you're like, what? I don't hate this shit. I don't like this.  

[00:58:39] Kim Forte:

Okay. So, recently, it was cereal. Our kids are like, yeah. We'll go back to cereal in the morning so we have to make our own breakfast because they thought, like, easy does it. Right? Right. Right. So they started making them so cereal, and they're like, we don't like cereal. I was like, well, you learn how to cook some eggs because Alright.  

[00:58:53] Unknown:

Now we're in the chapter scrambling some eggs because I know yeah. No. So one that we've been having so   we have, like, what we call our two older boys and our two younger boys. Right? And the older boys, like, there's definitely, like, this transition that's happening where we're like, oh, can I have, some more chicken nuggets? Or can I have this thing? We're like, yeah. Sure. Pop in the microwave. Or you gotta go downstairs to the other freezer to bring them up. Oh, I got how hungry are you, darling? Exactly.  

[00:59:18] Kim Forte:

How much life is feeling different when you are on the hook for doing Listen. We made a recent in the last, like, six to eight months, a massive transition in the way, like, we've thought about eating in our house. We've been very conscious of the snacks in the house, and, like, I'm not saying we're perfect, but we're certainly   trying to pull back on those mainstream   high caloric,   high whatever,   bad habit kind of snackies.   And,   you know, in that process,   it's having the kids take responsibility   too. It's not just us. And I think,   you know, part of Tina and I worked through our frustration or, like, shared our frustration. It's like, well, now we have to change everything. We have to figure it out. What do they wanna eat and whatever? And I'm like, no. No. No.  

This is their life. Like, if we're gonna teach them Yeah. How to eat well for their bodies, they have to start making choices.   And I'm not saying we're revolutionary. I'm not preaching or doing any, like, preaching podcast here, please. Please don't take that this way. But I do think   since this transition,   our kids have certainly thought more about   putting, like, a better balance   in their diet. Right? So, like, you know, the they'll tell you, like, there's the five groups you can choose from, and   it you're supposed to have three. Like, if kids have three every meal, that's a balanced meal. If they add the other two, that's   fantastic. But if they can get three in, great.  

And so now my kids, instead of just eating a bagel   with butter and, like, a glass of water, they'll have a piece of fruit, a half a bagel, and a glass of milk. Right. So they get, like, dairy,   half a bagel, and they get a little fruit in them.   And,   you know, I wasn't offering them that in the mornings either. Like, I what I'm not that kept me wrong. I wasn't doing it. I wasn't saying, like, oh, you need to have a whole balanced meal every morning. I was giving them whatever they wanted,   but I wasn't also teaching them what they should be eating. Right.   Yeah. And my mother did not teach me that. Yeah. You know? She didn't teach me what I should be eating. I ate what she told me to eat. Yeah. A big part of parenting,  

[01:01:32] Unknown:

because I'm confirming this too, is, like, it's habit building. Yeah.   So one thing I would say, right, when I'm working with clients, I'm like, people have their different ideas on how to parent.   But if an assumption that I I like to make is that if you are an a a caring parent who is involved and wants the best for your kids, then what we can all agree on is that you are   trying to, hopefully, wanting to positively influence your kids   to raise them to be well functioning,   ideally, like, content,   human beings who are, you know, a a positive  

[01:02:07] Kim Forte:

part of their world, if that makes sense. To put it in the most I'm trying to make the most big, vague environment where they feel good for themselves. And to say that, like, I wanna say just a little caveat is that, like, this choice was not driven was not driven by us. It was driven by our children. Right. Yeah. It was driven by our children saying, like, I'm not eating well. I'm eating the things   that people say I shouldn't eat. Part of that was, like, school influence. We've had this conversation. They had very demonstrative teachers who talked about that snacking and what that some in a very He's bringing up some food shame and some body shaming and stuff like that. I do believe there was a knock by a child. One moment. Mom moments. We're having a mom  

[01:02:48] Unknown:

moment. With the Dory, was it the dog? It was it was both Tristan and Dory, the dog, and it what Tristan was asking if he could have a snack. That's what Okay. Trip and that was about. So, you know, in that moment, you wanna say, like, of course, you can have a snack. And then at the same time, you're like, oh, sweet. I know. I literally get it. The same way. Can I have fruit? Of course, you're gonna have fruit. Why are you asking me the dumb question? And then at the same time, it's like, well, I have to get it. Like me and Josh talk about this all the time. Like, can I have some water? I'm like, wait. Do we, like, lock our children in the basement and just drive them with basic needs? Like, why?  

[01:03:21] Unknown:

Yeah.   You know? It's on the Bridge. You just you can always have a drink. Like, you can can I have a glass of milk? You are seeing some snow. Of course, you can have a glass of milk. By the way, the pediatrician says, I don't give you enough milk. Please, by all means, have six. I don't care. Like, it's not a Kit Kat bar. Yeah. You can have water. Just just always go take the water. Please don't drink. And please, like, yes. Don't get into a group of people and be like, get out of something. Bad is the big fear. Why? It was just like, oh my god. Yes. They're like, that their children need to ask for water.  

[01:03:58] Unknown:

May I go to the bathroom?  

[01:04:00] Kim Forte:

To Tracy and Josh herself. Let me tell you. They make their children  

[01:04:04] Unknown:

ask for water. For what? And to use the restroom.   To use the bath.  

[01:04:10] Kim Forte:

That's not true. They were just at my house. They don't ask. They're very Gosh.   But Yes. They do ask politely for things at other people's house, though. So, like, I don't wanna get his credit back. This is good.  

[01:04:21] Unknown:

But, yes.   But the refrigerator  

[01:04:25] Kim Forte:

I know. You know what Lucas said today? He ate, like, a bunch of cantaloupe, which is great. Yeah. Like, I was hanging out for breakfast, and he goes, I think I have a cantaloupe problem. And we were like,  

[01:04:34] Unknown:

I don't think you've been having You don't get to have a cantaloupe problem. Right. Like, I'm like, too Nancy.   It's an issue.  

[01:04:41] Kim Forte:

Nope. Like, no what? No doctor's is gonna be like problem list. So you really got a cantaloupe problem, kid. Like, I really need you to, like, lay low on the cantaloupe   and the watermelon and the grapes and the oranges and the apple. Like, no.   Too much fruit in your life, and it likes Gotta talk about the fruit in your life. Yeah. Yeah. But it's so funny. You say to your kid, like, you can have as much fruit as you want. You don't have to ask. Can I have an apple?  

[01:05:05] Unknown:

Sure.   Yes. Yes. You can. Asking if you can have an apple.   But yeah. So,   I mean Mhmm.   It's a it's a wild ride.  

[01:05:16] Kim Forte:

It's all a wild ride.  

[01:05:20] Unknown:

You know, I feel like  

[01:05:27] Kim Forte:

the good thing, though, is it's like you're working hard to try to meet them where they   need to be met. Mhmm. They see you Yeah. Too. Yeah.   You know?   I started saying, like, one of my lows was, like, this fight or this situation with the kids. I had come off of, like, two weeks with Tina traveling and me solo parenting for days on end and going through this   training program and, like, really not having any time, like, leaving minute to minute to minute, having asking other people to come in and walk the dog and take care of my kids and, like, just doing so much to, like, get through these days of this.   And, you know, they were like, we get it. We   see   we see you. Mhmm. That's a   remarkable feeling. Yeah.  



[01:06:15] Unknown:

Yeah.   Being seen by your children in your   humanity   and not just your mom ness or your parent ness is that's big. That's big. And,   That's big. Yeah. As they're getting older, that generally happens or you very much hope that it's happening more and more. And, yeah, I get I get some more of the, like,   thank you for that. And they're like, I'm gonna help you with that here and there.   Like,   sometimes the unexpected moments. I'm like,   appreciate that. Thank you. Yes. Yay?  

[01:06:48] Kim Forte:

Yeah. You're like, oh my goodness. Like, leave it. You saw   you saw me extend it or   Mhmm. Not even just the thank you, like,  

[01:06:59] Unknown:

which is great. I mean, I love when they say thank you. Yeah. But, like, the pitching in for something. There's something for me something that really happened for me that I cannot think of what it exactly is with Tristan. And I was like, I appreciate that you Yeah. You thought I needed your help, and you, like, you did it. Yeah. Yes. That's a great  

[01:07:16] Kim Forte:

moment when they, like, step up   and and do that. And you're like, oh, thank you. I mean, I'm hoping that's consistent.   Mhmm. Mhmm. I'm scared, though. I'm not gonna lie. You know, you and I are facing, like, a big transition this year. Like, we're we're in the joy phase right now. But Right. You know, elementary is coming to an end. Like, they're facing an another trajectory of life where we have less control, less input. Mhmm. Mhmm. Less experience into the process. Yeah. 100%.   And, you know, I'm feeling like  

[01:07:46] Unknown:

New social groups are gonna be formed too. Everybody who they know from fifth grade is not going to all the same middle school. No. It's not gonna happen. Right? They're gonna be forming new,  

[01:07:56] Kim Forte:

A whole new group of people. Yeah. And, also, on the top of that, like, my kids are in the phrase I don't know where Tristan is, but, like so we'd let them watch Wednesday. Mhmm. You know, it's like   the whole, like, when people watch things, it's always so complicated. No judgment. Don't judge me. Not judging you.   So we started watching Wednesday as a family, and,   you know, the parents kiss. There's no   sexual activity   in the show. It's a teen it's a TV 14 show, so there's not, like, a lot. But there's making out and Right. Sexual innuendo   kind of stuff.  

And my kids are still hiding their faith.   They They still don't wanna see kissing. They're not interested. And, of course, their parents are with them, so it's kinda gross. I still remember that. I think even till before my mother died, I don't think I wanted to watch it. I mean, I don't I don't have many I can't put many memories of, like, actively watching it, like, my kids where they're sitting next to me. Yeah. That's this we're running into new territory. New territory. Right? Like, you're raising the bar on, like, what's in the show, what they're seeing.  

[01:09:05] Unknown:

And it's,  

[01:09:07] Kim Forte:

you know, like Mhmm. But even with us, like, we kiss, and they're like,  

[01:09:12] Unknown:

whatever. So I I don't know how much of that is pretend or how much of it is real.  

[01:09:17] Kim Forte:

But also the reality of, like, we're parenting,   young people who are beginning to realize that they   are going to partner with someone one day is even if it's not forever, even if it's temporary, even if it's a relationship, even if it's a whatever, it will be a level of intimacy   that exists. And I think our children are just learning intimacy that it, like, is a thing between two people.   And it's weird.   Mhmm.   Mhmm. And even though they see it as us as parents, even though they see it in you and Josh as, like, a couple, they see it in me and Tina as a couple,   I just sort of feel like,  

[01:09:57] Unknown:

wow. Yeah.  

[01:09:59] Unknown:

Yeah. Wow.   I'm not ready. Not ready. No. Anybody got any advice? DM me. Whatever. No. I don't know that anybody ever is ready. I mean, I just think  

[01:10:09] Kim Forte:

the most direct way was ask me at the beginning of the show, you're like, high, lows, whatever. Like, what are you scared of? I'm scared of, like, prepubescent   adolescents and adolescents,   emotions when it comes to  

[01:10:23] Unknown:

warming your beginnings of your   Right.   You know?   Yeah. I mean, I think it's the most direct way in which you've had to address this. And this came up okay. This came up yesterday because I was at the Bronx Zoo yesterday. Uh-huh.   And if you recall I I not if you recall. As you know, I had a fourth   Tell the story. No. This is the podcast story. Okay. My short story the way that and before we get into this bottle, the slightly more unhinged this conversation  

[01:10:49] Kim Forte:

tone. Sign track with your yeah, I have the Okay. I'm good. Okay. So this is the story for the podcast. And even if that little bit shows in where, like, I didn't like my show showing and whatever.  

[01:10:59] Unknown:

This is mom moments. This is just just Mom moments. Moments. Once we're talking, I'm This is such a story.  

[01:11:06] Kim Forte:

I was half involved, half not,   but it's such a great story. And so I'm gonna let the person who is mostly involved I apologize.  

[01:11:14] Unknown:

I apologize   to any   school staff members who feel that they were, like, harmed in the making of the situation.  

[01:11:21] Kim Forte:

I'm gonna start wait a minute. I need some more wine. Hold on. Oh, what happened to me the wine?  

[01:11:26] Unknown:

Surprise. You have to stay tuned for part two because me and Kim got to talking, and we talked for over two hours. So I needed to split the episode into two parts. So the second part will air this week, Wednesday,   and you can hear all about the fourth grade scandal of 2025.   Also, don't forget to follow me on YouTube by subscribing to coach Tracy on YouTube   and follow this podcast on whatever platform   you choose to listen. Also, just know that you can go on the show notes, and you can sign up for my email list.   I think that's it. See you on Wednesday.