Hosts McIntosh and Kenshin discuss their frustrations with Bitcoin, focusing on security concerns for holders, lack of built-in privacy features, and toxic community drama. They also analyze why Trump isn't truly the "Bitcoin president" despite his rhetoric. The episode covers recent regulatory threats to Bitcoin privacy tools and updates on market conditions.
Stick around to the very end for the v4v track, “I Play Guitar” by Doerfel Family Bluegrass.
Resources
https://reason.com/2025/09/12/donald-trump-is-not-the-bitcoin-president/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/takes/nepalese-protestors-should-permanently-embrace-bitchat-as-well-as-bitcoin-and-other-freedom-tech
https://www.therage.co/us-government-to-bring-patriot-act-to-digital-assets/
https://www.therage.co/bsa-reform/
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
Sep 17th, 2025: 116,110 USD | 98,200 euro
Block Height at Time of Recording
914,162
Episode Page
https://satoshis-plebs.com/episode-226
Music Credits
Doerfel Family Bluegrass
I Play Guitar
Website
https://satoshis-plebs.com
Podcasting 2.0 Apps available at http://podcastapps.com and Value4Value information page available here: https://value4value.info
McIntosh can be reached by email at [email protected] and on Twitter at @McIntoshFinTech. His mastodon handle is @[email protected] and his Nostr. Kenshin can be reached on Twitter at @kenshin_ninja or on Nostr. Kenshin’s email is [email protected]. You can also follow the Satoshi’s Plebs podcast account on Nostr. We are looking forward to hearing from you!
We are looking forward to hearing from you!
[00:00:00]
McIntosh:
Welcome back to Stoshi's Plebs for episode 226. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin. And today, we're talking about what we hate about Bitcoin.
[00:00:13] McIntosh:
Alright. This is gonna be, as we say, a humdinger. Hope you're ready for it. What does that do? You're like, what's a humdinger? What darion is that boy going with now? We should do a segment. Southern word of the week.
[00:00:31] Kenshin:
Anyways Oh, yeah.
[00:00:33] McIntosh:
As we begin recording, we are at Block Height 915140, and I can verify oh my goodness gracious. We are at 945141. We just got a new block. According to my notes note. Ken Sham, what's up with you, buddy?
[00:00:55] Kenshin:
Well, I'm back back in Sweden, so that's good. I'm cold. I was nice and warm in, in US. Lot of good food. Good. I, yeah, between work positions, so a bit busy Mhmm. In the Fiat world again. Yeah. But looking forward to get back to my project with my wife, finish this up as soon as possible. And, yeah, hope to get out of the Fiat world soon.
[00:01:27] McIntosh:
Soon and fair? Oh, very cool. Yeah. I hope that works. I hope that works out for you. I'm very excited to see how that how that goes when you start start your pitch. Now you gotta be a salesperson. Yeah. That I don't like. That was the hard part for me in any business. Yeah. I honestly, basically, at my age, if I now if I really believe in something, like, you're aware of what I'm currently working on, I I feel like I can go and pitch it like a salesperson. I may not be great at it, but, you know, ten years ago even, I couldn't do this. I I I just wouldn't. I'd be like, I can do all the technical stuff, but somebody else is gonna have to do that. Right. But then I had to depend on somebody else.
[00:02:18] Kenshin:
So Yeah. I'm trying to do the best with marketing so I don't have to sell it. That's my strategy. Sales and market okay. Tomato, tomato. It's no. No. No. I'm a marketing person, so I have a very strong opinion about sales.
[00:02:35] McIntosh:
All those dirty salespeople.
[00:02:37] Kenshin:
Yes. It's not the same.
[00:02:42] McIntosh:
Well, not a whole lot to report this week. I will say my my three oldest miners, these were the ones that I started with, they're going up for sale. I'm gonna go ahead and say it here, and this will make me do it because I've been kind of not getting around to it, but I'm going to put them up for sale on eBay. It turns out eBay actually has a market of used ASICs. I never would have thought that. I did talk to one of my people in the local meetup group, and the other day, I took the three miners out of the packages and verified that everything looked good, gave him the specs.
And, basically, he ran some numbers and said, nope. That's gonna burn too much energy. I'm like, well, okay.
[00:03:30] Kenshin:
That's always the case. That's always where where I end up when I look at my Right. And that's fine.
[00:03:38] McIntosh:
That's his decision, certainly. I'm not upset about it. In fact, I believe I can actually sell it for more than what I was offering it to him for. So it will work out in my favor in the end, I think. But, hopefully, in the next couple days, this weekend, I don't know. I need to figure out, like, what's the best time to sell on eBay. I should ask Claude. What's the best time for your, your item to to end? Your whatever. Your auction your auction end. Right? Right. Sundays. Is it?
[00:04:14] Kenshin:
I think so. That's on the eighth. Weird day.
[00:04:17] McIntosh:
But maybe and that would be perfect. I could start it on Sunday and end it on Sunday.
[00:04:21] Kenshin:
Or any I think
[00:04:23] McIntosh:
Friday, Saturday, sun or probably Saturday. Well, I'm gonna talk to Claude. It's not that I don't trust you, but I wanna make as much money as possible because, dog gone, these things are heavy, and they're a pain in the butt. So plus need more dollars for more Bitcoin. Sorry.
[00:04:44] Kenshin:
I don't have any Bitcoin. I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, okay.
[00:04:47] McIntosh:
No. I lost it all in a boating accident out in The Gulf. You have a boat? No. It went down with the Bitcoin.
[00:04:58] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:05:00] McIntosh:
Alright. We're we're way over the skis here at this point. Let's head on over to our supporters. We had some support this week. Appreciate that. Send it, Mike. Boosted us a thousand and 69 sats. I'm gonna leave the hard one for you, by the way. So go ahead and and read up on that while I'm doing this one. Okay. I didn't do that on purpose, but he's got a hard a hard one. It is. Here's what said that Mike had to say. A 69 SATs. I appreciate Of course. I agree with everything Aldum said. I'm not sure. He may be referring to the one that you're fixing to read. So, actually, he is. So let's back up. Why don't you read, it's at at Adlum. Adlum. Adlum. Adlum.
It's at at Adlou. Aldom. Adlou. I I think I misspelled it on there. I think he actually says this. I'm sorry. But the yeah.
[00:05:57] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:05:59] McIntosh:
Aldom, just go ahead and Aldom. If we're saying it wrong, I'm sorry. I do apologize. That's my fault. It was a typo. Okay. So Aldom boosted us with 210
[00:06:10] Kenshin:
sets. And he says, gentlemen, intrinsic value is not a real thing. Value is a verb, not a noun. All value is in the eye of the beholder. Or sorry. The value. The eye of the buyer. Insisting money has to have intrinsic value is gold bug no no co no co no co. Gold doesn't have value outside its industrial ornamental monetary uses either. Okay. And backed by is a fiat thing. It's only supposed to be relevant for money sub substitutions, I e, what real money is back in this note. Just one more way you can know Fiat is not real money.
[00:07:02] McIntosh:
Right. Okay.
[00:07:04] Kenshin:
I agree with a lot.
[00:07:08] McIntosh:
A lot. Yeah. I do too. We we can fuss about the rest of it. I I don't know. No. It's a bit semantics, I think. To me has value. It's strictly because it's been used not did I say money? Gold has value strictly because it's been used as money for thousands of years, like, literally longer than anything else, by far. That that's value. That means to me, most likely, I could buy gold, leave it for my kids, and it's still money. It's still usable as as something of value. Does that make sense? Yeah. Now I'm not saying you should invest in gold. I I'm not. But I I would note that value for money especially is is really high in my opinion. That's just my opinion. So and the whole back by thing, I I believe I understand what you're saying, and I think I hunt a 100% agree on that.
Fiat is backed by the military. I mean, seriously, I say that jokingly sort of Yeah. Somewhat sometimes, but it's true because, otherwise, it's just debt. It's it's t bills. It's it's treasury bills, and that mean that's just pure debt. That's what it is. Yeah.
[00:08:37] Kenshin:
So I I think I think that's what we said last time. But, of course, then Mhmm. We we insinuated that gold has value. And I would say he's right in terms of if everybody today would would not assign value to gold, then gold would have no value, of course. But as you said yeah. But that didn't happen. But gold has been valuable for thousands of years, and in industrial sense,
[00:09:09] McIntosh:
it also has value because it's the only metal that doesn't rust. It's not that significant. It does have more ornamental I mean, the ornamental value of gold is actually fairly high. It's higher than you may think. It's like a trillion dollars or something. It's just like in jewelry and that kind of thing. I mean, it's kinda crazy. I you know you know what they say, Kenshin? You put three economists in a room and ask for their opinion. You get three different opinions. So I I don't know. We may be splitting hairs here, but, actually, this is what Senate Mike had to say, about that.
He sent in a thousand 69 sats again, and thank you. He said, I agree with everything Aldham said. The best money is that which has no other use and therefore cannot have value outside of money. Gold jewelry to me is decorated money. Other metals and gems make prettier jewelry to me. Gold is valued as jewelry because it's monetary premium, not in addition to it. My biggest fear, myth, is the sixty one zero two attack. So this was an answer to our question that we posed last week. And he is referring to a bill, that which has $61.00 2 in the number. Maybe that was the name of the number of the bill. I don't know exactly.
But it happened in the thirties, and they basically tried to confiscate people's gold. Not because they fear it will kill Bitcoin, but because it will make my life way harder and force me to choose, face possible arrest, or keep my Bitcoin. I think The US and Europe are the most likely to get a sixty one zero two attack. Okay? Appreciate that.
[00:10:58] Kenshin:
I agree with Mike that I don't like gold as jewelry either. I I don't I don't understand why people like it as jewelry. It doesn't look good.
[00:11:07] McIntosh:
The only thing I don't like about gold is jewelry, frankly, and I don't wear jewelry very much. I I actually don't wear it at all. But, I like it, but it does make you a target. Like, you know, it's shiny. It it attracts attention. People think that you you have money or whatever. That to me is a a certainly a downside to it. But I actually like old jewelry. I do. I don't I don't like the jewelry, actually. Well, three economists, one room, you know, three opinions. No. It's all good. Right. So great great, I appreciate the support 100%, of course, and and great content, great food for thought. So there you go.
Alright. What are we talking about? I have a follow-up question.
[00:11:59] Kenshin:
Where where do Mike or that's a question to me too. Where would I go if US and Europe would have a sort of an attack? Because I have been thinking about it for a couple of years, and I don't have a good answer. Where would I go?
[00:12:15] McIntosh:
I wouldn't want to stay in Europe. Well, we can switch the whole episode and we're around and talk about that if you want. It's not a bad thing to do. Yeah. I think there's a it's a fairly long question, to be honest. If you want, we can pivot. We can very quickly talk about what we have in Bitcoin if you want. We can't hear you for next time. Then may be Mike and others can also answer this, and,
[00:12:39] Kenshin:
we can, all answer it for the next episode. Yeah.
[00:12:43] McIntosh:
I don't think you're gonna answer it in a boost. Maybe you can. Maybe some people can. I don't think I can,
[00:12:49] Kenshin:
but I talk too much. I hear. So the question is if US and Europe would attack Bitcoin
[00:12:58] McIntosh:
and you need to confiscate it? Well, let's define it. Yeah. Let's confiscate Bitcoin. Let's define it that way. Right? Just like this sixty one zero two. Maybe I should look that up real quick. I do know it was the nineteen thirties, and I believe that's referring to the bill number. Yeah. So it's
[00:13:19] Kenshin:
you had to go give it
[00:13:23] McIntosh:
Oh, it was an executive order. Okay. Okay. Roosevelt in 1933, the executive order '60 1 2002. So it was referring to the number of the I thought it was a bill. My bad. But that makes sense because an executive order now this is a little bit of US politics. An executive order is something that that a president can just do. It doesn't go through Congress. I I believe, personally, executive orders are way overdone these days. Maybe not so much back then. That was almost a hundred years ago. But to confiscate or control, you know, they were they were taking gold from citizens, essentially.
They're privately held gold coins, bullion, and gift gold certificates to the Federal Reserve. And, they received in return, they got $20 and 67. Oh, okay. I just didn't read it right. In return so the so the government shows up your door and says, I want your gold. Just to make this easy, let's say you had a 100 ounces of gold. That's a lot, but let's just say that. 100 ounces of gold. Alright. Here it is. They're gonna write you a check for, $20.67 times a 100 or $2,067. But then what happened is the government then revalued gold to $35 an ounce, basically creating a bunch of money out of thin air, devaluing the dollar, essentially.
And it was for the Great Depression. It was to help people. And that's what it was. I don't know. But could that happen? 100%. But let's stick to that scenario for this question. I I don't wanna get off into other things that the government seizes privately held, Bitcoin or publicly held Bitcoin, which back then they didn't have centralized gold exchanges. They couldn't just go take the gold there, at least that I'm aware of. But we have sent you know, Kraken, for example, if the government knocks on Kraken's door and says, you've got to give us let's just make it easy. 10% of everyone's Bitcoin that's on the platform.
Right? Not all of it. Just 10%. Do you think Kraken's gonna comply with that? 100%. Okay. Sorry. We're gonna turn it into an episode. We'll talk about next week. So there there we go. There's the foundations. Alright. Cool. Alright. Let's do it. Jump on into the episode. What do we hate about Bitcoin, Christian? I want you to kick this off. Okay? So the idea here is we're gonna, like, look at the opposite. You know, we've got a lot of things we like about Bitcoin. Now we're gonna talk about what we don't like. Yeah. And I don't want this to be too negative. I mean, we're
[00:16:31] Kenshin:
Bitcoiners after all, but I think it's okay to criticize some stuff. Right? Or have have some feelings I hope it is. That could, yeah, improve in the future and yeah. So I would say hate is a okay. It's it's a heavy word, but I I don't think I hate it. But it's more like
[00:16:54] McIntosh:
Hey. We know that that's just for YouTube, everybody. Everybody calm down. You gotta do the we don't even post on YouTube.
[00:17:03] Kenshin:
Right. Oh, but for me, it's mostly the the the the feeling of uncertainty and fear that I can have bay based on if some Okay. Bad actors know that I have Bitcoin and attack me or my family. Because for, yeah, for whatever reason, these things happen, and they have happened in Sweden. And it's trivial to find my address once you know I have Bitcoin. So, unfortunately, I don't like the feeling that I cannot talk about it with with colleagues at work, with, you know, with random people. Right. I I had a really nice conversation with a colleague, and I was about to tell him, but you're talking like a Bitcoiner. You know, I wanted to ask him, are you a Bitcoiner? Because we were talking about, you know, the fiat system and other stuff, but nothing about Bitcoin. But I'm like, shit. If he's not a Bitcoiner, I need to make him into a Bitcoiner because it's a perfect fit. But but I I did him because I would like someone who overhear us. We were in a public yeah. We were in a public place. Worried. I'm like, I don't want someone to hear I'm a Bitcoiner.
I wasn't afraid for about him knowing it, but, you know, then it's trivial if someone follows me and sees my the the license plate on my car. They don't even need to know my name, and boom, they find where I live everything. So I I really don't like that part, and it makes me uncomfortable. And I don't know when it's gonna change. I I hope it becomes mainstream sooner than later, Bitcoin.
[00:18:53] McIntosh:
Is that the answer to basically everyone be using Bitcoin?
[00:18:57] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exactly. Because, I mean, everybody knows that everybody has a bank account with money in it. And if they go to someone's home and and threaten them, they can get money transferred to their accounts. Right? So that doesn't happen. And maybe we also need when it becomes mainstream, maybe they will become there will be more mainstream solutions of custody. That's gonna be kind of self custody, but the bad actors would also know that it's not enough to go to someone's place to get their Bitcoin. You know? Maybe there is a system.
[00:19:39] McIntosh:
I think we call that, I'm trying to complete blank. What's the you have to have, like, three out of five keys? Multi key? Whatever. I that's not the right word, but yeah. I mean, that's the current
[00:19:53] Kenshin:
strategy and they don't know if someone has a multisig right now. But but, of course, if someone comes to me now, I will say I have a multisig and that's it. But still, you know, you need to convince them or whatever, and it might not be enough.
[00:20:11] McIntosh:
Mhmm.
[00:20:11] Kenshin:
But if it's a mainstream and there is a service that requires a key, I don't know. You know, those there exist already those companies where you have a key and the company has a key and, you know, that's the only way to transact, basically. I don't know how they called, like, anyway, some Bitcoin companies do that. So, yeah. Until that point, I mean. Well, that's that's just a multisig. Right? You can you say that again? You have a key and Yeah. It's a multisig, but you have it with a company. So when it's And when it's in the future mainstream and everybody has that setup, And the bad actors know that no one really has a self custody under full on their control.
And you need to whatever do something with a company to move money.
[00:21:07] McIntosh:
I do like that model. Actually, now that I think about it because you don't it's just one less person. You kinda you're depending on that company, but that company is not like, I don't have to depend on my brother or my my my kids or or you need to manage those other keys. Does that make sense
[00:21:32] Kenshin:
necessarily? Yeah. I mean, we don't need to solve this. I mean, I I envision there is a solution in the future that we cannot imagine now that makes sense for mainstream and is really safe, safer than the bank. And you don't really need to trust that third party. So we don't need to solve it. But I envision something like that and it's and I don't need to be afraid of of, harm to myself or my family. Yeah. That's my biggest Yeah. Thing with Bitcoin. And sometimes I'm thinking, is it worth the hassle because of all this, stress around it?
[00:22:14] McIntosh:
Right. I appreciate that. That's good. That's good stuff. Maybe something we all ought to think about a little more. I don't know. Everybody's in a different place, and I don't know. I personally probably think about things more along the way that you just described than certainly than running. Well, I'll say this. Like, I don't run around wearing a Bitcoin t shirt. Right? Or in the fed or something like that. You know? Just kinda advertising it. I I don't know. And and I've been very hesitant. I my friends know. My people that but, like, literally and I'm talking about kind of the people we hang out with on a regular basis.
But the reality is those are people we've literally known since college, which was a long time ago. And if I can't trust somebody like that, then who can you trust? Yeah. I mean, that's fine You know? If it's people you know, but,
[00:23:28] Kenshin:
mostly thinking about someone overhearing it, you know, in that sense. Sure.
[00:23:35] McIntosh:
Right. But I'm not gonna go let's say I'm in fact, this just happened. I've somebody that I knew from a long time ago got involved in Bitcoin recently and not because of me, but they did. And I offered to help them set up strike for their DCA because they're doing things the right way. I'm very proud of them, actually. I don't know if they're listening to this, but I am. And, you know, it they're like, well, we can meet at a basically a public place and talk about this. I'm like, I don't think so. You guys just come on over to our house, and and we'll sit down. And and that's what we did, and it took quite a while. So it was probably a really good thing.
But but it's the exact same reasoning as what you're describing. I don't wanna talk about that in public around people that I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Someone could follow you.
[00:24:48] Kenshin:
The $5 wrench attack. Right? Right.
[00:24:53] McIntosh:
Right. Right. Unlike Sweden, we have a second amendment, but, yeah, you're no. I I kid. No. Well, not really, but, yeah. I mean, it's definitely a a possibility. That's I wanna make sure that's clear regardless of our second amendment. You know, it's it's something to to certainly think about. So, yes, I the answer the only answer I know is just like you're saying, improvement in the technology and kinda how we management how we manage it. You can say, well, use multi sig, but and you should at a certain point, but that is cumbersome, difficult, I don't know, harder to manage.
The real answer is to basically everybody kinda be on the same page and have the technology improve. And I think both are happening, maybe not at the rate rate we want them. Right. But I do believe they're happening. And what do you hate then? Okay. Mine's a little bit different. At least that's kind of the way I approached it. So I've been involved in Bitcoin for a long time, as you well, we both have. But, you know, they talk about sovereignty. They talk about anonymity. And as someone who reads the constitution as a literal document, not something that you interpret, frankly, I read the bill of rights, which goes along with that, and it says that I have a right to privacy in my papers and effects.
And the historical interpretation of that is that, basically, it's nobody else's business how much money I keep, I don't spend, and, you know, control. Does that make sense? Now I may be incorrect in that thinking. I'm not this and this is not a debate about that. So please don't send in a boost about it. If you do, please make sure it's at least 10,000 sats. I think I did that pretty smoothly. But operating off that premise, privacy is very important to me. And anonymity is not the same thing as privacy. There are ways in Bitcoin to be relatively private, but they are nontrivial.
They involve extra steps. They involve coordination with groups of people to do things that, well, we're gonna have a discussion about today, in fact, in the kind of the news segment that maybe, the government doesn't like. There's certainly jurisdictions where that's true. I would like to see it, and I'm not sure it will ever happen at this point simply because of the level of Bitcoin's acceptance and the fact that the government, of The United States I'm only speaking for The United States, but the government at least puts its kinda stamp of approval on it, and there's a lot of people who don't wanna rock the boat. But what I would like to see is built in privacy, however that's done.
And I'm not a I'm not a tech person to that level, and I don't pretend to be. But if it's making the current setups easier, if it's implementing new privacy, if it's how whatever it is. But I don't want, when I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that's my business between me and the person that I'm transacting with, and it's no one else's business, not even Kenshin's. Mhmm. Unless it was involving Kenshin. Did that make sense? It was a bad joke, and I get went completely flat. I have no This is why I do not The React cost. Yeah. Sure.
Sure. Okay. Yeah. So that's it for me. I mean, really, everything else is on and I do agree with what you're saying, and and Right. That's a different aspect of privacy, I guess. Well, it's not really privacy. It's two completely different things. But I I want that built into wallets. I want it everywhere. I want it the norm, not the exception. And right now, it's the exception. And because of that and because of how that scares the government, it makes a lot of people really nervous. And we're gonna talk about that in the news. We'll get to that.
[00:30:16] Kenshin:
Do you use a unique address for each transaction you make?
[00:30:25] McIntosh:
I probably do a lot of things wrong in terms so let I'll just use myself for an example. Now I have a business that's a mining business. I've told you all about this repeatedly in the past. That business, I it's above board. Like, there is a address that my Satoshis get sent to when they get mined, and, you know, that's it. End of story. Because I pay out of that. I pay for the hosting. And, you know, it's IRS taxed and whatever, all that crap that I have to do. Excuse me. All of that stuff I have to do to, you know, to to do that. Personally, I probably don't do the level of privacy that I should, and it's actually been on my radar really for multiple years at this point to probably change that.
But but I'm being completely honest with you guys. I don't I don't hide what I do from the from the government, so to speak. They they ask me every year, did you buy or sell bit crypto? And the answer to that is yes. Right? And I don't I'm not gonna hide that. I'm not gonna do the things that are necessary to even attempt to hide that. So I'm not necessarily worried about it right now, but I just think it should, frankly, I guess I'm being a hypocrite on this because, no, I don't I don't do a lot of the things that I should, like what you just said. I don't do that.
But I'm also not somebody who's really worried about about that aspect. I'm not a political dissident. I'm not a undercover journalist or you know? I'm I I live in a government that is relatively tolerant of what I believe, frankly. Right. And it's just not a problem for me. But that doesn't mean it's not a I feel for people in places like could you imagine being a Bitcoiner in Russia or China?
[00:32:46] Kenshin:
I don't know. Until they're not, though. Right? I mean
[00:32:50] McIntosh:
Until they're not. I'm not sure what you've been you said that in US, they're they're tolerant in US. Oh, a 100%. You're correct. And I was and and let's be honest. Yeah. The four years prior to the to the current administration, that was part of the thought process. These yahoos are gonna turn this into something that, you know, there was some self censoring going on, frankly, in my own life, and and I hate that. But, yeah, that got real close. It did. I understand how all the privacy stuff works, but I'm not gonna tell you that I do it on a daily basis. So, yeah, it's like we talked about backups the other day. This is something you ought to think about. This is something maybe you need to, not use specifically, Kinshan, but I'm talking to the listeners in general.
Right? This is something you you should think about. Are you as private as you want to be or need to be? I don't know. I can't answer that question. But I do wish that it was easier for the look. I should have the ability in a Bitcoin wallet to to to have a a clear transaction if I want that, I guess, or or private transaction should just, like, be a toggle. Or maybe it should just be the default and everyone should pay for it. I'd maybe that's the way to do it. I I don't wanna engineer something here on the air because, God, every person on Nostril will be telling me that I'm an idiot as they do quite frequently over every decision that's ever made by anybody.
Yeah. You know, I I I just know that we're not there yet, and I feel like a lot of people are asleep on this. I do. A lot of people don't think it's important because like me, it doesn't actually affect them right now, but maybe it will one day. And I am aware of that. And that is why it's important to me even if I can be hypocritical
[00:35:11] Kenshin:
and not actually do it right now. Yeah. It it exactly. It does because that's the point. You never know when it's gonna be important to you or when when it might affect you. So that's that's my strategy. I have like, everybody says, oh, I have nothing to hide. Yeah. But, you know, you have nothing to hide or you think you have nothing to hide. But, yeah, until someone changes their opinion that what you're doing is wrong all of a sudden. And then, yeah, then you're a target.
[00:35:46] McIntosh:
I don't wanna man. No. I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna go down that road. Yes. You are correct. 100%. And it's something it's something that we should all think about more, but I really think that it should be easier for the end user as well.
[00:36:06] Kenshin:
So I think we've probably hammered that. I have another one if you want. A quick one quick one.
[00:36:12] McIntosh:
Okay. Sure. Yeah. One more and then we need we do we've got lots of questions about
[00:36:18] Kenshin:
Or or Bitcoin drama in general.
[00:36:24] McIntosh:
Hey. Well, sadly, I do not have an answer for the second one. But for the first one, just get on Noster. No. I, yeah, go ahead, please. You have No. I mean, it's yeah. Humans,
[00:36:41] Kenshin:
they're always greedy. And even in Bitcoin, we see that, and that creates a lot of friction and drama. And I don't like it because you you see incentives is peep people are greedy and they just want to make money. And Bitcoin gets affected by that greed. So I I really hate that, and I stay away from from this type of
[00:37:08] McIntosh:
You haven't been on Monster lately then,
[00:37:11] Kenshin:
No. I have stayed away for for the past months. It's hard. Yeah. Right.
[00:37:18] McIntosh:
That's that was it. Yeah. I don't that's tough. I didn't realize quite how I don't wanna say addicted. Addicted is not the right word. But, man, when I stopped being on Bitcoin Twitter or Twitter, or x or whatever. It was amazing how it was almost like cleansing. You know? And on Twitter on Twitter, it's all algorithm driven. I know it is.
[00:37:51] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:37:52] McIntosh:
You know, the big thing right now is is wow. Core versus not, of course. And everybody's up in arms, and it is really important. And that's the problem. I believe it's important. But people are just getting super nasty. And, I mean, I just wanted to tell one person. I probably could have been a lot more than one, but I just I wanted to say, did your mama raise you right? I mean, seriously. Like, just in the gutter, just icky. Can we at least stick to the technical points and, you know, not be insulting and it's like we're in fifth grade again. And that was a long time ago for me.
I don't know. Maybe that's the problem. Want to relieve it. But I know I don't. I didn't care for fifth grade, but, you know, it's like everybody's just nasty. Just nasty. And I get you can be you can you can believe it's important. You can make your points, and you don't have to insult the other people involved. You don't. And I do believe eventually, and I hate all the in between, but I do believe eventually we'll get to where Bitcoin needs to be. Right. I do not know yet if not, it says at 20%, but it's darn close. And frankly, going from roughly 2% to 20% this year is a stunning achievement.
And the detractors of that system can say whatever they want, but people are speaking. And it's not people out there running fake dummy notes. There's so much garbage going on right now. It's nuts. They're like, people are just spinning them up on AWS. But, you know, hey. Have you checked the economy? People don't have $20 a month to spin up a Bitcoin node for no reason. That's so ridiculous that people would do that just to just to pad the numbers.
[00:40:26] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. I mean, of course, there there there has been a spike. So the caveat is there's been a spike in, Bitcoin nodes as a total number. So we're over 20,000. Yes. And a year ago, we were It's
[00:40:47] McIntosh:
I believe that most people are new people who are spinning up knots versus not not not core because they believe enough in what's going on that they're casting their vote and they were not a node runner Right. Previously. Will some of those people go away? A 100%. But, you know, they're showing up and actually this does say they're at 20 to 22, 21, 22% of reachable notes. Keeps going up. So, you know, you guys just keep arguing and it'll probably get, it doesn't have to get to 50%. I don't even want it to get 50%. You know what I want, Kenshin? I want there to be at least three solid clients.
That's what I want. And I've said that before, I believe, on here. I want a Rust implementation that actually is functional and works and can do something. I want if those moron sorry. Now I'm not doing it. Now I'm alright. If the people who it's open source software, and I'm not gonna tell them you gotta shut your project down. But there are alternatives. And if something if they do something that's really bad, which is a possibility, then there are just others to run and we'll just go run those. Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but the even the fact that at one point, core was 95% of the network is just insanity. Centralized at that point.
Yep. Alright. News. Was that it? Was that what? That thing clicked that thing clicked it. Alright. Man, every week I get on here, I'm like, no. I'm not gonna get upset. Too late. Hey. I really wanna talk about Alex's article here on reason. I thought this was very good. There will be links to all of these in the show notes, by the way. Alex is the head of the Human Rights Foundation HRF, which is an organization Alex Gladstein. Yes. I was looking up his last name, as we speak. And he's somebody that I respect greatly. I've never had the chance to meet him in person, but he is somebody who is walking what he says.
You can agree with him or disagree with him and people frequently do, but he is walking what he says. He wrote a great article on why Donald Trump is not the Bitcoin president. That is literally the title. Donald Trump is not the Bitcoin president. And I'm not gonna read this article verbatim, but, essentially, he says, if I'm reading this correctly, I don't have you had a chance to read this?
[00:43:59] Kenshin:
I was yeah. Schemes read. I didn't read it. So But, I mean, I completely agree from the first day he became president. I completely agree with what he says. I'd it's
[00:44:11] McIntosh:
I believe I expressed this on the show after I got back from the Nashville Conference. It felt like a political stump speech. The only thing I I I want them to basically overregulated. Clear regulations are helpful, so I know where the lines are. But when when a politician opens their mouth, I realize most often they're just trying to gain votes. So, I've never felt like he's the Bitcoin president, so to speak. He has done some things. We talked about the the strategic Bitcoin reserve, which is still only semi sort of in place after, wow, we're closing it on a year, really, a few more months.
You know, is that good? Is that bad? I think it's inevitable. It doesn't even matter whether it's good or bad. Countries are going to stack Bitcoin. And you, pleb, people like me should stack it as much as possible before that really happens. That's that. The fact that he hasn't really done that means doesn't really hurt or help me, but he has started talking about stablecoins. He made a pivot within just a few months, really. It was early, early in the summer, like, early in the summer, maybe even spring, really. He starts talking about stablecoins and how they're gonna gonna help The United States.
And one of the things that Alex mentioned in here, the stable coins are backed by something. And most often that something is US treasuries. Okay? Basically, here's here's actually how he puts it. A stablecoin company issues a $100 worth of digital dollar tokens and simultaneously backs them with a $100 of high quality assets, typically US treasuries. Ladies and gentlemen, even though he doesn't bring it out in this article, and I would encourage you to read the article, but he doesn't really bring this out. This this right here is why Donald Trump loves stablecoins.
These companies, he gave a fact in here. These companies are getting very large holders, holdings of of, of treasuries. Tether is the seventh largest holder. I I'm almost sure that's what he said, and now I don't see it. Of state of tow sorry. Two treasuries. Right? Mhmm. Like, behind a couple of countries. It's crazy. Do you know why that's so important? Because there are countries like China who are divesting themselves of treasuries because they've realized that the US dollar is trash. Okay? So simultaneously, you have countries unloading treasuries, and you've got stable coin companies who are buying them.
And it's the only thing that's keeping The United States halfway out of hock as we say.
[00:48:02] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. Listen to this. What you said. So in March, Tether surpassed Canada and Taiwan to become the seventh largest holder of US treasure worldwide.
[00:48:14] McIntosh:
Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So this genius act that they're working on, I guess they've signed it, kind of solidified a lot of this. So that was kind of Alex's whole point. I want to emphasize the reason why Trump loves these stable coins. It's all about shoring up that dollar Because The United States what I heard a figure just yesterday on another podcast. They said it was recent. Maybe it was last month. Maybe it was August. Like, we spent over $700,000,000,000 as a country, 700, almost a trillion. We brought in in receipts, so to speak. This was our our taxes. $350,000,000,000,000 or something. It was almost double. It was insane.
We are spending like drunken sailors who've been out on the USS Nimitz for six months and just got into port. And we can't do that because when the sailors run out of money, they go back to their barracks and they fall into the barracks and go to sleep. When we run out of money, it's it's we have two choices. We can default or we can hyperinflate, and we're not defaulting. Right. Great article. You should take a read. You should follow everything that Alex does. He's really a great guy. I really he's you you got people Ken, should you got I know you wanna meet me, but besides me, you've got people in big another joke, another no laugh. I really gotta start working on this stuff.
I'm gonna write them down beforehand. Yeah. Ask Luke for those. Like, stop. Okay. Our audience just went away. Tell me, who do you wanna meet in Bitcoin? Who who would you like to meet? Oh,
[00:50:27] Kenshin:
definitely Jack Mallers.
[00:50:29] McIntosh:
Jack Mallers. Yeah. Good good call. Anybody else? Who's your top three? You know what? Well, this would make a great question, but we won't do that. We've already got a question. Two more. Two more. Oh. And let's just say you cannot meet Satoshi Yeah. Because that would be everybody's first choice.
[00:50:55] Kenshin:
Yeah. I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, that's obvious. But no. Except Satoshi. Jack. Mhmm. Who else? Now I'm drawing a blank. Oh. Oh, the the the guy you interviewed.
[00:51:15] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Eric? Is that who you're talking about?
[00:51:18] Kenshin:
The the the Maybe.
[00:51:20] McIntosh:
God damn it. Seed signer. Who are you? Seed signer. Oh, okay. Sure. What's his name? Well, that's his name. Very good. I have no idea what his name is. That is literally what he goes by. He does not divulge his name. Okay. Good.
[00:51:39] Kenshin:
I don't know. Who who are your three? Three more.
[00:51:42] McIntosh:
Oh, you'll just steal one of them. Yeah. I see where this is going. Adam Back Right.
[00:51:48] Kenshin:
Who frankly I was thinking about Adam Back, but I I don't know if I like him. I don't I'm not I'm not convinced.
[00:51:55] McIntosh:
Without bit without Adam Back, there would not be bit. Sure. He he's a brilliant mind. We can discuss a I really wanna have that podcast. We've talked about this. This he was actually the the reason why I wanted to have that podcast that we decided not to do Right. Last week or the week before, because, yeah, I don't wanna let the cat out of the bag. Add him back. I want I would love to he clearly, he's a very smart person. Hal Finney.
[00:52:25] Kenshin:
Yeah. But alive.
[00:52:27] McIntosh:
Somebody well, you did well, I didn't qualify. Okay.
[00:52:32] Kenshin:
I didn't qualify. Hal Finney was
[00:52:35] McIntosh:
after Satus, it's Hal Finney. Legend. I mean, seriously. Like, he received the first Bitcoin transaction. He wrote some of the early papers. Like, I know he wrote about his theory that there would be, like really, I think what we're seeing starting to evolve with eCash, right, on Bitcoin. Basically, private banks, Fedimint, this kind of thing. He wrote about that. The third one, I like Jack. What? But I'm not Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Just remembrance.
[00:53:14] Kenshin:
My third one.
[00:53:16] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Now you got me off track. And and, honestly, I maybe I would say Eric Hersman if I'd never met him, but I have met him in person. I've interviewed him twice, and and I would do it again in a heartbeat. No. I've only interviewed him once or twice. I don't think we ever got the second interview put together. And I would do it again, but if it were somebody I never met, I would probably actually say Alex. And he's he's a peripheral Bitcoin type person, but he's really cool. And he has a lot look. You guys don't understand. If you don't follow him, you don't have any idea. He the stuff he does to help promote Bitcoin in places that people need it, like Iran.
I'll just give you an example. Okay. Who's your third? Saifedean
[00:54:15] Kenshin:
Amoz.
[00:54:17] McIntosh:
Interesting. Yeah. See, he's somebody, kinda like what you were saying about Adam Back. I go back and forth on him. Obviously, very smart. I have his book, The Bitcoin Standard. I also have his book Shit. The Principles of Economics. I have not read The Principles of Economics. I'm actually considering taking you on my vacation because, you know, nothing says awesome reading, like, 300 pages of economic, well, you know, to each their own. But, yeah, I'm sometimes I'm a little yeah. Whatever. We do need to make a full episode of that. I really think that would actually be a good episode down the road. Alright. Great. Oh. Where were we at? Completely derailed. I think we're done with this I just want to add one thing. Yes, sir. For me
[00:55:07] Kenshin:
Mhmm. What proved that Trump was not the Bitcoin president was the first day of his election. He opened his mouth? He I mean, a Trump coin. I mean, that that's just proof. That that was obvious.
[00:55:22] McIntosh:
Oh, yeah. No. That sealed it. Yeah. No. You're you're a 100% right. So we did and and funny enough, Alex actually does it. I don't think he even went into that. But he has he and his
[00:55:37] Kenshin:
Some?
[00:55:38] McIntosh:
Businesses, shall we say, They have gone and and enriched themselves off of this stuff. The the Trump and Melania coins alone, the millions of dollars, like Billions. Strictly because there's fools out in this country who just because they believe Donald Trump is well, I really wanna be careful what I say. You know, such a great person, they're gonna go out and buy his token.
[00:56:09] Kenshin:
I mean, the volume on, like, one of those days in the beginning was 50,000,000,000.
[00:56:16] McIntosh:
It's it's crazy. And then they just unloaded everything. What I you know, it's just a chipotle.
[00:56:23] Kenshin:
Altcoin It's 88.6% down from the all time high.
[00:56:30] McIntosh:
Yeah. That's a good point. I'm glad you brought that up because, yeah, that was certainly another reason, but I was already alright. Look. I just hope he doesn't do bad things, and we're fixed to talk about some of that. And, you know, maybe comes up with some decent legislation. I've given up the idea that he could, like, say, no cap gains on Bitcoin. You know, let's just make it a currency. He's he is living and dying by the dollar as the currency of The United States. And maybe he should. I don't know. That's not what's best for me, but I don't know. Next. Okay.
Moving on up. For the next one, we're gonna pick up the pace here because we are getting a little long, a lot long. This is actually not directly Bitcoin related. I didn't. I keep I try and keep up with Nepal. I've talked about Nepal over the years a number of times. I would love to go there and set up mining operation, but they unfortunately ban all forms of crypto at this point as far as I understand it. Because back in 2021, they had some scammers come in, sadly. But I don't know what's actually going on, but apparently, politically, they're having a lot of upheaval. Okay?
And on September, this article gives the date. It was in September. It was September 4 or yeah. September 4, the the Nepali government banned 26 major social media platforms. Because of social unrest, I'm not exactly sure why, and I'm not gonna act like I do know. But because of that, the protesting got even worse, and they started using BitChat. Have you heard of BitChat?
[00:58:37] Kenshin:
I have tried it, but not much.
[00:58:42] McIntosh:
I you really need to I don't wanna say be in something like this, but you need to be in, like, a large group of people where basically other people are using it or it's kind of useless, I guess. Yeah. It's like any messaging
[00:58:56] Kenshin:
of you need someone to talk to. But it operates
[00:58:59] McIntosh:
over Bluetooth. Right. So it doesn't even have to use Internet. Now they're including the Nostra protocol, but you basically in a large situation like this where maybe you have a 100,000 protesters, if you've got a lot of people who are using that in that crowd, you build a mesh network. And you can use that to communicate in a way that basically is impossible for the government to intercept. So, it was downloaded 49,000 times on September 8 in Nepal. Mhmm. Okay. So clearly and I'm not gonna comment on what's going on. There's a lot of chaos. I know the prime minister has stepped down.
Apparently, they burned the parliament house or whatever. So I don't know. I'm not on the ground there. I have not been able to keep up with it over the last year or so. I'm not gonna talk about all that. I do think it's interesting that they use that app Yeah. For that.
[01:00:09] Kenshin:
And it's not a unique app. I mean, I've tried in the past, like, prior. It was very similar.
[01:00:18] McIntosh:
Another similar see I vaguely heard of. Yep. For some reason, this one's really taken off, though. Of course, it's, Jack Dorsey behind it. Because it's Noster. Because Cali. Because Jack Dorsey. Yeah. Jack Dorsey did originally. So Jack Dorsey created the original client. He vibe coded it. He it's what he said. And basically turned it over and people started updating and, you know, kind of building a real app around it. I thought that was pretty cool, actually. Yeah. This billionaire vibe coding, a freedom app, and that's what it's for. Alright. The next one, this the next two stories are on the rage, the rage.co.
The US government is trying to bring the Patriot Act to digital assets, and this is what I was talking about. This this would and and I'm not saying this is what Donald Trump is pushing. I don't know where this is coming from, frankly, and I hope that this gets pushed down and stopped before it ever really takes off. Okay? I will say that. We will just have to see. But, basically, in a nutshell, because we are low on time, there was a hearing and the FinCEN directory, director, confirmed that the treasury so this is the treasury. These are people who are would be under Scott Besant, if I'm not mistaken, is working on finalizing the so called mixer rule, which uses the Patriot Act, which was terribly misnamed and has been highly abused since 2001 to prohibit private transactions in cryptocurrency.
So this is literally the exact opposite of what I was saying earlier about we need more privacy in Bitcoin. They're saying, no. You can't mix your Bitcoin. You can't obfuscate your, blockchain trail, so to speak, because we need to know everything about you, your effects, and what you do, which to me is a direct violation of that first I don't know what amendment it is. Sorry. Whichever amendment it is. My right to privacy and my effects and papers. There we go. I'm not gonna go through all that, but they are finalizing it. I don't see this as being a good thing. I do not.
[01:02:54] Kenshin:
And I really hope this gets That only proves that the mixing services actually work.
[01:03:02] McIntosh:
Yes. They do. Yeah. Of course, they do. Now they can be, they're not easy. You can do something wrong and, you know, you can make a mistake. I want that bulletproof privacy built into Bitcoin right out of the gate. I I wanna make it almost impossible
[01:03:23] Kenshin:
Mhmm. For that. And I I have said in the past, I like the Jam, j a m. That's a nice Yes. To use.
[01:03:32] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Yes. It is. That would be the one that I would be using if I was, but as I already told you, I am not. So now I'm gonna have to put that on my list of things. Your own notes and etcetera. So it's not easy, of course.
[01:03:49] Kenshin:
Okay. I got some It's easy for you, but as you said, you want it in a mainstream Bitcoin
[01:03:57] McIntosh:
wallets. Yeah. No. You're right. No. That's a perfect point. I mean, it really wouldn't be too hard for me to do that. Now if I did it correctly, I'm not so sure. Yeah. I mean, probably, but no. But for the average person, they can't spin up an instance and, like, go tweak things and this and that. I've spent twenty five years learning these skills. I mean, you know? Alright. The last thing I wanna close out on this, and we do need to get moving on. The treasury is also working on Bank Secrecy Act reforms. So I don't know. Apparently, everybody hates the Bank Secrecy Act all of a sudden, which I've only been railing about for twenty years.
Yeah. Right? You know what? Do you even know what I'm talking this is the one where you like, when you go on the bank and say, hey. I need to wire $10,000 to this account. They're like, why are you doing this? What's it for? Why are you supporting, you know, child pornography and, you know, whatever.
[01:05:07] Kenshin:
Right? Yeah. I mean, we we know this very good here in Europe.
[01:05:10] McIntosh:
But I thought this was a very good article because it literally apparently at the hearing. Ironically, that same person, Andrea Gaki, the defense in director, was talking about how bad the BSA was, essentially. How little they literally I think it's a woman, and if it's not, I apologize. But I believe they literally asked her, like oh, I'm not gonna say it because now I don't I don't see it. I'm not gonna remember it exactly. Oh, here it is. The the director of the treasury's own financial intelligence, unit was able to tell communication committee sorry, the committee that they were talking to, how efficient or inefficient the BSA really is.
I'm sorry. I don't have those numbers off the top of my head, Gaki replied to none, the senator, who asked her how many of the tens of millions of BSA reports filed each year lead to actual arrest. I want to know that number. I don't care that that person does not have that off the top of my head. I want to go find it. Call somebody. Act like a person who's in charge. Figure it out because that number is critical. And I bet that number is really low. And if you look at the ratios, they're ridiculous. So why are you taking all of our information when it turns into just a few arrests.
To round things out with the news, I I don't have a whole lot of time about to talk about this, really. But right before we started recording, Jerome Powell did I probably should've led with this Bad bad Macintosh. Fed, chairman Jerome Powell, they cut the rates a quarter of a percent, which is like the bare minimum. They can't really do it any less other than zero. And given all the data they've been handed the last few weeks, they they basically realized they had to do something. So it's a start. It is amazing to me how much higher our rates are versus, like, Sweden's. You said they were two point something. Two point zero. And we're now down to around, like, four four point o to, like, four one or something is the actual rates or whatever.
I'm not I don't quite understand how that works, but it's not really a fixed rate, which is kind of wild. But yeah. So I suspect, two months from now, they'll lower it another quarter of a point and so on. So we will grind down, and, hopefully, that will somewhat stimulate the economy because Mhmm. We need it. Okay. What's our price in Bitcoin, sir? Happy
[01:08:25] Kenshin:
you asked. It's 116,110.
[01:08:30] McIntosh:
Up Really? Since we started. Yeah. It's it was kind of a buy the news sell what do they call it? Buy the rumor sell the news. It was up to 117, and then it fell, down to 114, I think, or so ish. I don't know. But, yeah, it's starting to recover. The market did not I think the market wanted more. I I looked at it, remember, as we started recording and said, hey. Everything's red. Like, everything was red. Like, the stock market, Bitcoin, the Bitcoin stocks, it was all down. It's like, this doesn't make any sense. Everybody was expecting rates. October is almost here. Sorry.
I guess I it's such a fickle thing. Anyways, how many euros? 90 How many euros? Where do you go? €98,200.
[01:09:31] Kenshin:
And price since this time last year, that was 60,300. That brings us around 92% up.
[01:09:41] McIntosh:
Around 92. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Our gold versus Bitcoin market cap really is unchanged. It's 9%, 2,340,000,000,000.00 for Bitcoin, 25,600,000,000,000.0 for gold. Gold is actually up a little bit this week. We are at an all time high again. Last I saw 3,720. Let's see how that's changed. Sorry. I've got it right here. $36.96. So, yeah, it it fell too. So weird. Mhmm. So 3,700 anyways, but that's up. Fees, very low, one sat per vBuy. I did see this is the first time in months the mempool is, quote, filled. Like, it's the average mempool is only 300 megabytes, and we are at 331 megabytes of unprocessed transactions, a 136,000
[01:10:46] Kenshin:
transactions. That we are down to one sat per view bytes too. Yeah.
[01:10:52] McIntosh:
Yeah. I I I I gave up. I I don't even it is weird. It is weird. I think a lot's going on on the Lightning Network that people just really aren't aware. I think that's gonna show up in the reports. I think River puts out one, for example, about the lightning network because they can somewhat track kind of the volume. Yeah. In mempool dot space, you you have a a page for lightning. Mhmm. There it is. So we we can track it there. Do you do you wanna start tracking that? I don't know. We Yeah. I don't know. Could Let's look into it, what we could track. People are already screaming. This is too long. They do wanna add more.
Oh. Interesting. Alright. Satoshi's Plebs is a value for value podcast, supporting podcasting two point o. By the way, I need to take some time to talk about that. Things are kinda rough in the podcasting two point o space. We are trying to figure things out. I don't ever talk about it because it's not directly related. I wanna talk about this though right now instead of the rest of this. It's become very difficult to send boost. Basically, if you don't use fountain, it may not make it to us. Things are kind of in flux, and I hope that they improve. If they don't, I'm afraid the whole streaming and boosting and all that stuff is just gonna kinda die on the vine because it's not fully matured.
And there are changes that need to be made. They need to be made by all of the applications or at least the majority of them. There's just things that need to happen, and I don't have the answers. I'm just a bystander on this whole thing because I am a podcaster, and this is kind of how I'm trying to make some value for myself. You know? But, yeah, just keep that in mind. If you have a problem and can't get a boost through to us, please feel free to reach out to us. The best way is probably on. Yeah. So that's it.
[01:13:06] Kenshin:
Okay. So thanks everyone for being here. We hope this has been helpful, and we would love to hear from you. Yes. You can find all our contact info at satoshis.com. Stay humble. And have a great weekend.
[01:13:23] McIntosh:
We'll talk to you all soon.
[01:13:25] Kenshin:
Bye bye.
[01:15:10] Unknown:
Don't know what happens. Things I know I should know, but I know how to play guitar. Don't know what happens. Things I know I should know, but I know how to play guitar.
Welcome back to Stoshi's Plebs for episode 226. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin. And today, we're talking about what we hate about Bitcoin.
[00:00:13] McIntosh:
Alright. This is gonna be, as we say, a humdinger. Hope you're ready for it. What does that do? You're like, what's a humdinger? What darion is that boy going with now? We should do a segment. Southern word of the week.
[00:00:31] Kenshin:
Anyways Oh, yeah.
[00:00:33] McIntosh:
As we begin recording, we are at Block Height 915140, and I can verify oh my goodness gracious. We are at 945141. We just got a new block. According to my notes note. Ken Sham, what's up with you, buddy?
[00:00:55] Kenshin:
Well, I'm back back in Sweden, so that's good. I'm cold. I was nice and warm in, in US. Lot of good food. Good. I, yeah, between work positions, so a bit busy Mhmm. In the Fiat world again. Yeah. But looking forward to get back to my project with my wife, finish this up as soon as possible. And, yeah, hope to get out of the Fiat world soon.
[00:01:27] McIntosh:
Soon and fair? Oh, very cool. Yeah. I hope that works. I hope that works out for you. I'm very excited to see how that how that goes when you start start your pitch. Now you gotta be a salesperson. Yeah. That I don't like. That was the hard part for me in any business. Yeah. I honestly, basically, at my age, if I now if I really believe in something, like, you're aware of what I'm currently working on, I I feel like I can go and pitch it like a salesperson. I may not be great at it, but, you know, ten years ago even, I couldn't do this. I I I just wouldn't. I'd be like, I can do all the technical stuff, but somebody else is gonna have to do that. Right. But then I had to depend on somebody else.
[00:02:18] Kenshin:
So Yeah. I'm trying to do the best with marketing so I don't have to sell it. That's my strategy. Sales and market okay. Tomato, tomato. It's no. No. No. I'm a marketing person, so I have a very strong opinion about sales.
[00:02:35] McIntosh:
All those dirty salespeople.
[00:02:37] Kenshin:
Yes. It's not the same.
[00:02:42] McIntosh:
Well, not a whole lot to report this week. I will say my my three oldest miners, these were the ones that I started with, they're going up for sale. I'm gonna go ahead and say it here, and this will make me do it because I've been kind of not getting around to it, but I'm going to put them up for sale on eBay. It turns out eBay actually has a market of used ASICs. I never would have thought that. I did talk to one of my people in the local meetup group, and the other day, I took the three miners out of the packages and verified that everything looked good, gave him the specs.
And, basically, he ran some numbers and said, nope. That's gonna burn too much energy. I'm like, well, okay.
[00:03:30] Kenshin:
That's always the case. That's always where where I end up when I look at my Right. And that's fine.
[00:03:38] McIntosh:
That's his decision, certainly. I'm not upset about it. In fact, I believe I can actually sell it for more than what I was offering it to him for. So it will work out in my favor in the end, I think. But, hopefully, in the next couple days, this weekend, I don't know. I need to figure out, like, what's the best time to sell on eBay. I should ask Claude. What's the best time for your, your item to to end? Your whatever. Your auction your auction end. Right? Right. Sundays. Is it?
[00:04:14] Kenshin:
I think so. That's on the eighth. Weird day.
[00:04:17] McIntosh:
But maybe and that would be perfect. I could start it on Sunday and end it on Sunday.
[00:04:21] Kenshin:
Or any I think
[00:04:23] McIntosh:
Friday, Saturday, sun or probably Saturday. Well, I'm gonna talk to Claude. It's not that I don't trust you, but I wanna make as much money as possible because, dog gone, these things are heavy, and they're a pain in the butt. So plus need more dollars for more Bitcoin. Sorry.
[00:04:44] Kenshin:
I don't have any Bitcoin. I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, okay.
[00:04:47] McIntosh:
No. I lost it all in a boating accident out in The Gulf. You have a boat? No. It went down with the Bitcoin.
[00:04:58] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:05:00] McIntosh:
Alright. We're we're way over the skis here at this point. Let's head on over to our supporters. We had some support this week. Appreciate that. Send it, Mike. Boosted us a thousand and 69 sats. I'm gonna leave the hard one for you, by the way. So go ahead and and read up on that while I'm doing this one. Okay. I didn't do that on purpose, but he's got a hard a hard one. It is. Here's what said that Mike had to say. A 69 SATs. I appreciate Of course. I agree with everything Aldum said. I'm not sure. He may be referring to the one that you're fixing to read. So, actually, he is. So let's back up. Why don't you read, it's at at Adlum. Adlum. Adlum. Adlum.
It's at at Adlou. Aldom. Adlou. I I think I misspelled it on there. I think he actually says this. I'm sorry. But the yeah.
[00:05:57] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:05:59] McIntosh:
Aldom, just go ahead and Aldom. If we're saying it wrong, I'm sorry. I do apologize. That's my fault. It was a typo. Okay. So Aldom boosted us with 210
[00:06:10] Kenshin:
sets. And he says, gentlemen, intrinsic value is not a real thing. Value is a verb, not a noun. All value is in the eye of the beholder. Or sorry. The value. The eye of the buyer. Insisting money has to have intrinsic value is gold bug no no co no co no co. Gold doesn't have value outside its industrial ornamental monetary uses either. Okay. And backed by is a fiat thing. It's only supposed to be relevant for money sub substitutions, I e, what real money is back in this note. Just one more way you can know Fiat is not real money.
[00:07:02] McIntosh:
Right. Okay.
[00:07:04] Kenshin:
I agree with a lot.
[00:07:08] McIntosh:
A lot. Yeah. I do too. We we can fuss about the rest of it. I I don't know. No. It's a bit semantics, I think. To me has value. It's strictly because it's been used not did I say money? Gold has value strictly because it's been used as money for thousands of years, like, literally longer than anything else, by far. That that's value. That means to me, most likely, I could buy gold, leave it for my kids, and it's still money. It's still usable as as something of value. Does that make sense? Yeah. Now I'm not saying you should invest in gold. I I'm not. But I I would note that value for money especially is is really high in my opinion. That's just my opinion. So and the whole back by thing, I I believe I understand what you're saying, and I think I hunt a 100% agree on that.
Fiat is backed by the military. I mean, seriously, I say that jokingly sort of Yeah. Somewhat sometimes, but it's true because, otherwise, it's just debt. It's it's t bills. It's it's treasury bills, and that mean that's just pure debt. That's what it is. Yeah.
[00:08:37] Kenshin:
So I I think I think that's what we said last time. But, of course, then Mhmm. We we insinuated that gold has value. And I would say he's right in terms of if everybody today would would not assign value to gold, then gold would have no value, of course. But as you said yeah. But that didn't happen. But gold has been valuable for thousands of years, and in industrial sense,
[00:09:09] McIntosh:
it also has value because it's the only metal that doesn't rust. It's not that significant. It does have more ornamental I mean, the ornamental value of gold is actually fairly high. It's higher than you may think. It's like a trillion dollars or something. It's just like in jewelry and that kind of thing. I mean, it's kinda crazy. I you know you know what they say, Kenshin? You put three economists in a room and ask for their opinion. You get three different opinions. So I I don't know. We may be splitting hairs here, but, actually, this is what Senate Mike had to say, about that.
He sent in a thousand 69 sats again, and thank you. He said, I agree with everything Aldham said. The best money is that which has no other use and therefore cannot have value outside of money. Gold jewelry to me is decorated money. Other metals and gems make prettier jewelry to me. Gold is valued as jewelry because it's monetary premium, not in addition to it. My biggest fear, myth, is the sixty one zero two attack. So this was an answer to our question that we posed last week. And he is referring to a bill, that which has $61.00 2 in the number. Maybe that was the name of the number of the bill. I don't know exactly.
But it happened in the thirties, and they basically tried to confiscate people's gold. Not because they fear it will kill Bitcoin, but because it will make my life way harder and force me to choose, face possible arrest, or keep my Bitcoin. I think The US and Europe are the most likely to get a sixty one zero two attack. Okay? Appreciate that.
[00:10:58] Kenshin:
I agree with Mike that I don't like gold as jewelry either. I I don't I don't understand why people like it as jewelry. It doesn't look good.
[00:11:07] McIntosh:
The only thing I don't like about gold is jewelry, frankly, and I don't wear jewelry very much. I I actually don't wear it at all. But, I like it, but it does make you a target. Like, you know, it's shiny. It it attracts attention. People think that you you have money or whatever. That to me is a a certainly a downside to it. But I actually like old jewelry. I do. I don't I don't like the jewelry, actually. Well, three economists, one room, you know, three opinions. No. It's all good. Right. So great great, I appreciate the support 100%, of course, and and great content, great food for thought. So there you go.
Alright. What are we talking about? I have a follow-up question.
[00:11:59] Kenshin:
Where where do Mike or that's a question to me too. Where would I go if US and Europe would have a sort of an attack? Because I have been thinking about it for a couple of years, and I don't have a good answer. Where would I go?
[00:12:15] McIntosh:
I wouldn't want to stay in Europe. Well, we can switch the whole episode and we're around and talk about that if you want. It's not a bad thing to do. Yeah. I think there's a it's a fairly long question, to be honest. If you want, we can pivot. We can very quickly talk about what we have in Bitcoin if you want. We can't hear you for next time. Then may be Mike and others can also answer this, and,
[00:12:39] Kenshin:
we can, all answer it for the next episode. Yeah.
[00:12:43] McIntosh:
I don't think you're gonna answer it in a boost. Maybe you can. Maybe some people can. I don't think I can,
[00:12:49] Kenshin:
but I talk too much. I hear. So the question is if US and Europe would attack Bitcoin
[00:12:58] McIntosh:
and you need to confiscate it? Well, let's define it. Yeah. Let's confiscate Bitcoin. Let's define it that way. Right? Just like this sixty one zero two. Maybe I should look that up real quick. I do know it was the nineteen thirties, and I believe that's referring to the bill number. Yeah. So it's
[00:13:19] Kenshin:
you had to go give it
[00:13:23] McIntosh:
Oh, it was an executive order. Okay. Okay. Roosevelt in 1933, the executive order '60 1 2002. So it was referring to the number of the I thought it was a bill. My bad. But that makes sense because an executive order now this is a little bit of US politics. An executive order is something that that a president can just do. It doesn't go through Congress. I I believe, personally, executive orders are way overdone these days. Maybe not so much back then. That was almost a hundred years ago. But to confiscate or control, you know, they were they were taking gold from citizens, essentially.
They're privately held gold coins, bullion, and gift gold certificates to the Federal Reserve. And, they received in return, they got $20 and 67. Oh, okay. I just didn't read it right. In return so the so the government shows up your door and says, I want your gold. Just to make this easy, let's say you had a 100 ounces of gold. That's a lot, but let's just say that. 100 ounces of gold. Alright. Here it is. They're gonna write you a check for, $20.67 times a 100 or $2,067. But then what happened is the government then revalued gold to $35 an ounce, basically creating a bunch of money out of thin air, devaluing the dollar, essentially.
And it was for the Great Depression. It was to help people. And that's what it was. I don't know. But could that happen? 100%. But let's stick to that scenario for this question. I I don't wanna get off into other things that the government seizes privately held, Bitcoin or publicly held Bitcoin, which back then they didn't have centralized gold exchanges. They couldn't just go take the gold there, at least that I'm aware of. But we have sent you know, Kraken, for example, if the government knocks on Kraken's door and says, you've got to give us let's just make it easy. 10% of everyone's Bitcoin that's on the platform.
Right? Not all of it. Just 10%. Do you think Kraken's gonna comply with that? 100%. Okay. Sorry. We're gonna turn it into an episode. We'll talk about next week. So there there we go. There's the foundations. Alright. Cool. Alright. Let's do it. Jump on into the episode. What do we hate about Bitcoin, Christian? I want you to kick this off. Okay? So the idea here is we're gonna, like, look at the opposite. You know, we've got a lot of things we like about Bitcoin. Now we're gonna talk about what we don't like. Yeah. And I don't want this to be too negative. I mean, we're
[00:16:31] Kenshin:
Bitcoiners after all, but I think it's okay to criticize some stuff. Right? Or have have some feelings I hope it is. That could, yeah, improve in the future and yeah. So I would say hate is a okay. It's it's a heavy word, but I I don't think I hate it. But it's more like
[00:16:54] McIntosh:
Hey. We know that that's just for YouTube, everybody. Everybody calm down. You gotta do the we don't even post on YouTube.
[00:17:03] Kenshin:
Right. Oh, but for me, it's mostly the the the the feeling of uncertainty and fear that I can have bay based on if some Okay. Bad actors know that I have Bitcoin and attack me or my family. Because for, yeah, for whatever reason, these things happen, and they have happened in Sweden. And it's trivial to find my address once you know I have Bitcoin. So, unfortunately, I don't like the feeling that I cannot talk about it with with colleagues at work, with, you know, with random people. Right. I I had a really nice conversation with a colleague, and I was about to tell him, but you're talking like a Bitcoiner. You know, I wanted to ask him, are you a Bitcoiner? Because we were talking about, you know, the fiat system and other stuff, but nothing about Bitcoin. But I'm like, shit. If he's not a Bitcoiner, I need to make him into a Bitcoiner because it's a perfect fit. But but I I did him because I would like someone who overhear us. We were in a public yeah. We were in a public place. Worried. I'm like, I don't want someone to hear I'm a Bitcoiner.
I wasn't afraid for about him knowing it, but, you know, then it's trivial if someone follows me and sees my the the license plate on my car. They don't even need to know my name, and boom, they find where I live everything. So I I really don't like that part, and it makes me uncomfortable. And I don't know when it's gonna change. I I hope it becomes mainstream sooner than later, Bitcoin.
[00:18:53] McIntosh:
Is that the answer to basically everyone be using Bitcoin?
[00:18:57] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exactly. Because, I mean, everybody knows that everybody has a bank account with money in it. And if they go to someone's home and and threaten them, they can get money transferred to their accounts. Right? So that doesn't happen. And maybe we also need when it becomes mainstream, maybe they will become there will be more mainstream solutions of custody. That's gonna be kind of self custody, but the bad actors would also know that it's not enough to go to someone's place to get their Bitcoin. You know? Maybe there is a system.
[00:19:39] McIntosh:
I think we call that, I'm trying to complete blank. What's the you have to have, like, three out of five keys? Multi key? Whatever. I that's not the right word, but yeah. I mean, that's the current
[00:19:53] Kenshin:
strategy and they don't know if someone has a multisig right now. But but, of course, if someone comes to me now, I will say I have a multisig and that's it. But still, you know, you need to convince them or whatever, and it might not be enough.
[00:20:11] McIntosh:
Mhmm.
[00:20:11] Kenshin:
But if it's a mainstream and there is a service that requires a key, I don't know. You know, those there exist already those companies where you have a key and the company has a key and, you know, that's the only way to transact, basically. I don't know how they called, like, anyway, some Bitcoin companies do that. So, yeah. Until that point, I mean. Well, that's that's just a multisig. Right? You can you say that again? You have a key and Yeah. It's a multisig, but you have it with a company. So when it's And when it's in the future mainstream and everybody has that setup, And the bad actors know that no one really has a self custody under full on their control.
And you need to whatever do something with a company to move money.
[00:21:07] McIntosh:
I do like that model. Actually, now that I think about it because you don't it's just one less person. You kinda you're depending on that company, but that company is not like, I don't have to depend on my brother or my my my kids or or you need to manage those other keys. Does that make sense
[00:21:32] Kenshin:
necessarily? Yeah. I mean, we don't need to solve this. I mean, I I envision there is a solution in the future that we cannot imagine now that makes sense for mainstream and is really safe, safer than the bank. And you don't really need to trust that third party. So we don't need to solve it. But I envision something like that and it's and I don't need to be afraid of of, harm to myself or my family. Yeah. That's my biggest Yeah. Thing with Bitcoin. And sometimes I'm thinking, is it worth the hassle because of all this, stress around it?
[00:22:14] McIntosh:
Right. I appreciate that. That's good. That's good stuff. Maybe something we all ought to think about a little more. I don't know. Everybody's in a different place, and I don't know. I personally probably think about things more along the way that you just described than certainly than running. Well, I'll say this. Like, I don't run around wearing a Bitcoin t shirt. Right? Or in the fed or something like that. You know? Just kinda advertising it. I I don't know. And and I've been very hesitant. I my friends know. My people that but, like, literally and I'm talking about kind of the people we hang out with on a regular basis.
But the reality is those are people we've literally known since college, which was a long time ago. And if I can't trust somebody like that, then who can you trust? Yeah. I mean, that's fine You know? If it's people you know, but,
[00:23:28] Kenshin:
mostly thinking about someone overhearing it, you know, in that sense. Sure.
[00:23:35] McIntosh:
Right. But I'm not gonna go let's say I'm in fact, this just happened. I've somebody that I knew from a long time ago got involved in Bitcoin recently and not because of me, but they did. And I offered to help them set up strike for their DCA because they're doing things the right way. I'm very proud of them, actually. I don't know if they're listening to this, but I am. And, you know, it they're like, well, we can meet at a basically a public place and talk about this. I'm like, I don't think so. You guys just come on over to our house, and and we'll sit down. And and that's what we did, and it took quite a while. So it was probably a really good thing.
But but it's the exact same reasoning as what you're describing. I don't wanna talk about that in public around people that I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Someone could follow you.
[00:24:48] Kenshin:
The $5 wrench attack. Right? Right.
[00:24:53] McIntosh:
Right. Right. Unlike Sweden, we have a second amendment, but, yeah, you're no. I I kid. No. Well, not really, but, yeah. I mean, it's definitely a a possibility. That's I wanna make sure that's clear regardless of our second amendment. You know, it's it's something to to certainly think about. So, yes, I the answer the only answer I know is just like you're saying, improvement in the technology and kinda how we management how we manage it. You can say, well, use multi sig, but and you should at a certain point, but that is cumbersome, difficult, I don't know, harder to manage.
The real answer is to basically everybody kinda be on the same page and have the technology improve. And I think both are happening, maybe not at the rate rate we want them. Right. But I do believe they're happening. And what do you hate then? Okay. Mine's a little bit different. At least that's kind of the way I approached it. So I've been involved in Bitcoin for a long time, as you well, we both have. But, you know, they talk about sovereignty. They talk about anonymity. And as someone who reads the constitution as a literal document, not something that you interpret, frankly, I read the bill of rights, which goes along with that, and it says that I have a right to privacy in my papers and effects.
And the historical interpretation of that is that, basically, it's nobody else's business how much money I keep, I don't spend, and, you know, control. Does that make sense? Now I may be incorrect in that thinking. I'm not this and this is not a debate about that. So please don't send in a boost about it. If you do, please make sure it's at least 10,000 sats. I think I did that pretty smoothly. But operating off that premise, privacy is very important to me. And anonymity is not the same thing as privacy. There are ways in Bitcoin to be relatively private, but they are nontrivial.
They involve extra steps. They involve coordination with groups of people to do things that, well, we're gonna have a discussion about today, in fact, in the kind of the news segment that maybe, the government doesn't like. There's certainly jurisdictions where that's true. I would like to see it, and I'm not sure it will ever happen at this point simply because of the level of Bitcoin's acceptance and the fact that the government, of The United States I'm only speaking for The United States, but the government at least puts its kinda stamp of approval on it, and there's a lot of people who don't wanna rock the boat. But what I would like to see is built in privacy, however that's done.
And I'm not a I'm not a tech person to that level, and I don't pretend to be. But if it's making the current setups easier, if it's implementing new privacy, if it's how whatever it is. But I don't want, when I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that's my business between me and the person that I'm transacting with, and it's no one else's business, not even Kenshin's. Mhmm. Unless it was involving Kenshin. Did that make sense? It was a bad joke, and I get went completely flat. I have no This is why I do not The React cost. Yeah. Sure.
Sure. Okay. Yeah. So that's it for me. I mean, really, everything else is on and I do agree with what you're saying, and and Right. That's a different aspect of privacy, I guess. Well, it's not really privacy. It's two completely different things. But I I want that built into wallets. I want it everywhere. I want it the norm, not the exception. And right now, it's the exception. And because of that and because of how that scares the government, it makes a lot of people really nervous. And we're gonna talk about that in the news. We'll get to that.
[00:30:16] Kenshin:
Do you use a unique address for each transaction you make?
[00:30:25] McIntosh:
I probably do a lot of things wrong in terms so let I'll just use myself for an example. Now I have a business that's a mining business. I've told you all about this repeatedly in the past. That business, I it's above board. Like, there is a address that my Satoshis get sent to when they get mined, and, you know, that's it. End of story. Because I pay out of that. I pay for the hosting. And, you know, it's IRS taxed and whatever, all that crap that I have to do. Excuse me. All of that stuff I have to do to, you know, to to do that. Personally, I probably don't do the level of privacy that I should, and it's actually been on my radar really for multiple years at this point to probably change that.
But but I'm being completely honest with you guys. I don't I don't hide what I do from the from the government, so to speak. They they ask me every year, did you buy or sell bit crypto? And the answer to that is yes. Right? And I don't I'm not gonna hide that. I'm not gonna do the things that are necessary to even attempt to hide that. So I'm not necessarily worried about it right now, but I just think it should, frankly, I guess I'm being a hypocrite on this because, no, I don't I don't do a lot of the things that I should, like what you just said. I don't do that.
But I'm also not somebody who's really worried about about that aspect. I'm not a political dissident. I'm not a undercover journalist or you know? I'm I I live in a government that is relatively tolerant of what I believe, frankly. Right. And it's just not a problem for me. But that doesn't mean it's not a I feel for people in places like could you imagine being a Bitcoiner in Russia or China?
[00:32:46] Kenshin:
I don't know. Until they're not, though. Right? I mean
[00:32:50] McIntosh:
Until they're not. I'm not sure what you've been you said that in US, they're they're tolerant in US. Oh, a 100%. You're correct. And I was and and let's be honest. Yeah. The four years prior to the to the current administration, that was part of the thought process. These yahoos are gonna turn this into something that, you know, there was some self censoring going on, frankly, in my own life, and and I hate that. But, yeah, that got real close. It did. I understand how all the privacy stuff works, but I'm not gonna tell you that I do it on a daily basis. So, yeah, it's like we talked about backups the other day. This is something you ought to think about. This is something maybe you need to, not use specifically, Kinshan, but I'm talking to the listeners in general.
Right? This is something you you should think about. Are you as private as you want to be or need to be? I don't know. I can't answer that question. But I do wish that it was easier for the look. I should have the ability in a Bitcoin wallet to to to have a a clear transaction if I want that, I guess, or or private transaction should just, like, be a toggle. Or maybe it should just be the default and everyone should pay for it. I'd maybe that's the way to do it. I I don't wanna engineer something here on the air because, God, every person on Nostril will be telling me that I'm an idiot as they do quite frequently over every decision that's ever made by anybody.
Yeah. You know, I I I just know that we're not there yet, and I feel like a lot of people are asleep on this. I do. A lot of people don't think it's important because like me, it doesn't actually affect them right now, but maybe it will one day. And I am aware of that. And that is why it's important to me even if I can be hypocritical
[00:35:11] Kenshin:
and not actually do it right now. Yeah. It it exactly. It does because that's the point. You never know when it's gonna be important to you or when when it might affect you. So that's that's my strategy. I have like, everybody says, oh, I have nothing to hide. Yeah. But, you know, you have nothing to hide or you think you have nothing to hide. But, yeah, until someone changes their opinion that what you're doing is wrong all of a sudden. And then, yeah, then you're a target.
[00:35:46] McIntosh:
I don't wanna man. No. I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna go down that road. Yes. You are correct. 100%. And it's something it's something that we should all think about more, but I really think that it should be easier for the end user as well.
[00:36:06] Kenshin:
So I think we've probably hammered that. I have another one if you want. A quick one quick one.
[00:36:12] McIntosh:
Okay. Sure. Yeah. One more and then we need we do we've got lots of questions about
[00:36:18] Kenshin:
Or or Bitcoin drama in general.
[00:36:24] McIntosh:
Hey. Well, sadly, I do not have an answer for the second one. But for the first one, just get on Noster. No. I, yeah, go ahead, please. You have No. I mean, it's yeah. Humans,
[00:36:41] Kenshin:
they're always greedy. And even in Bitcoin, we see that, and that creates a lot of friction and drama. And I don't like it because you you see incentives is peep people are greedy and they just want to make money. And Bitcoin gets affected by that greed. So I I really hate that, and I stay away from from this type of
[00:37:08] McIntosh:
You haven't been on Monster lately then,
[00:37:11] Kenshin:
No. I have stayed away for for the past months. It's hard. Yeah. Right.
[00:37:18] McIntosh:
That's that was it. Yeah. I don't that's tough. I didn't realize quite how I don't wanna say addicted. Addicted is not the right word. But, man, when I stopped being on Bitcoin Twitter or Twitter, or x or whatever. It was amazing how it was almost like cleansing. You know? And on Twitter on Twitter, it's all algorithm driven. I know it is.
[00:37:51] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:37:52] McIntosh:
You know, the big thing right now is is wow. Core versus not, of course. And everybody's up in arms, and it is really important. And that's the problem. I believe it's important. But people are just getting super nasty. And, I mean, I just wanted to tell one person. I probably could have been a lot more than one, but I just I wanted to say, did your mama raise you right? I mean, seriously. Like, just in the gutter, just icky. Can we at least stick to the technical points and, you know, not be insulting and it's like we're in fifth grade again. And that was a long time ago for me.
I don't know. Maybe that's the problem. Want to relieve it. But I know I don't. I didn't care for fifth grade, but, you know, it's like everybody's just nasty. Just nasty. And I get you can be you can you can believe it's important. You can make your points, and you don't have to insult the other people involved. You don't. And I do believe eventually, and I hate all the in between, but I do believe eventually we'll get to where Bitcoin needs to be. Right. I do not know yet if not, it says at 20%, but it's darn close. And frankly, going from roughly 2% to 20% this year is a stunning achievement.
And the detractors of that system can say whatever they want, but people are speaking. And it's not people out there running fake dummy notes. There's so much garbage going on right now. It's nuts. They're like, people are just spinning them up on AWS. But, you know, hey. Have you checked the economy? People don't have $20 a month to spin up a Bitcoin node for no reason. That's so ridiculous that people would do that just to just to pad the numbers.
[00:40:26] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. I mean, of course, there there there has been a spike. So the caveat is there's been a spike in, Bitcoin nodes as a total number. So we're over 20,000. Yes. And a year ago, we were It's
[00:40:47] McIntosh:
I believe that most people are new people who are spinning up knots versus not not not core because they believe enough in what's going on that they're casting their vote and they were not a node runner Right. Previously. Will some of those people go away? A 100%. But, you know, they're showing up and actually this does say they're at 20 to 22, 21, 22% of reachable notes. Keeps going up. So, you know, you guys just keep arguing and it'll probably get, it doesn't have to get to 50%. I don't even want it to get 50%. You know what I want, Kenshin? I want there to be at least three solid clients.
That's what I want. And I've said that before, I believe, on here. I want a Rust implementation that actually is functional and works and can do something. I want if those moron sorry. Now I'm not doing it. Now I'm alright. If the people who it's open source software, and I'm not gonna tell them you gotta shut your project down. But there are alternatives. And if something if they do something that's really bad, which is a possibility, then there are just others to run and we'll just go run those. Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but the even the fact that at one point, core was 95% of the network is just insanity. Centralized at that point.
Yep. Alright. News. Was that it? Was that what? That thing clicked that thing clicked it. Alright. Man, every week I get on here, I'm like, no. I'm not gonna get upset. Too late. Hey. I really wanna talk about Alex's article here on reason. I thought this was very good. There will be links to all of these in the show notes, by the way. Alex is the head of the Human Rights Foundation HRF, which is an organization Alex Gladstein. Yes. I was looking up his last name, as we speak. And he's somebody that I respect greatly. I've never had the chance to meet him in person, but he is somebody who is walking what he says.
You can agree with him or disagree with him and people frequently do, but he is walking what he says. He wrote a great article on why Donald Trump is not the Bitcoin president. That is literally the title. Donald Trump is not the Bitcoin president. And I'm not gonna read this article verbatim, but, essentially, he says, if I'm reading this correctly, I don't have you had a chance to read this?
[00:43:59] Kenshin:
I was yeah. Schemes read. I didn't read it. So But, I mean, I completely agree from the first day he became president. I completely agree with what he says. I'd it's
[00:44:11] McIntosh:
I believe I expressed this on the show after I got back from the Nashville Conference. It felt like a political stump speech. The only thing I I I want them to basically overregulated. Clear regulations are helpful, so I know where the lines are. But when when a politician opens their mouth, I realize most often they're just trying to gain votes. So, I've never felt like he's the Bitcoin president, so to speak. He has done some things. We talked about the the strategic Bitcoin reserve, which is still only semi sort of in place after, wow, we're closing it on a year, really, a few more months.
You know, is that good? Is that bad? I think it's inevitable. It doesn't even matter whether it's good or bad. Countries are going to stack Bitcoin. And you, pleb, people like me should stack it as much as possible before that really happens. That's that. The fact that he hasn't really done that means doesn't really hurt or help me, but he has started talking about stablecoins. He made a pivot within just a few months, really. It was early, early in the summer, like, early in the summer, maybe even spring, really. He starts talking about stablecoins and how they're gonna gonna help The United States.
And one of the things that Alex mentioned in here, the stable coins are backed by something. And most often that something is US treasuries. Okay? Basically, here's here's actually how he puts it. A stablecoin company issues a $100 worth of digital dollar tokens and simultaneously backs them with a $100 of high quality assets, typically US treasuries. Ladies and gentlemen, even though he doesn't bring it out in this article, and I would encourage you to read the article, but he doesn't really bring this out. This this right here is why Donald Trump loves stablecoins.
These companies, he gave a fact in here. These companies are getting very large holders, holdings of of, of treasuries. Tether is the seventh largest holder. I I'm almost sure that's what he said, and now I don't see it. Of state of tow sorry. Two treasuries. Right? Mhmm. Like, behind a couple of countries. It's crazy. Do you know why that's so important? Because there are countries like China who are divesting themselves of treasuries because they've realized that the US dollar is trash. Okay? So simultaneously, you have countries unloading treasuries, and you've got stable coin companies who are buying them.
And it's the only thing that's keeping The United States halfway out of hock as we say.
[00:48:02] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. Listen to this. What you said. So in March, Tether surpassed Canada and Taiwan to become the seventh largest holder of US treasure worldwide.
[00:48:14] McIntosh:
Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So this genius act that they're working on, I guess they've signed it, kind of solidified a lot of this. So that was kind of Alex's whole point. I want to emphasize the reason why Trump loves these stable coins. It's all about shoring up that dollar Because The United States what I heard a figure just yesterday on another podcast. They said it was recent. Maybe it was last month. Maybe it was August. Like, we spent over $700,000,000,000 as a country, 700, almost a trillion. We brought in in receipts, so to speak. This was our our taxes. $350,000,000,000,000 or something. It was almost double. It was insane.
We are spending like drunken sailors who've been out on the USS Nimitz for six months and just got into port. And we can't do that because when the sailors run out of money, they go back to their barracks and they fall into the barracks and go to sleep. When we run out of money, it's it's we have two choices. We can default or we can hyperinflate, and we're not defaulting. Right. Great article. You should take a read. You should follow everything that Alex does. He's really a great guy. I really he's you you got people Ken, should you got I know you wanna meet me, but besides me, you've got people in big another joke, another no laugh. I really gotta start working on this stuff.
I'm gonna write them down beforehand. Yeah. Ask Luke for those. Like, stop. Okay. Our audience just went away. Tell me, who do you wanna meet in Bitcoin? Who who would you like to meet? Oh,
[00:50:27] Kenshin:
definitely Jack Mallers.
[00:50:29] McIntosh:
Jack Mallers. Yeah. Good good call. Anybody else? Who's your top three? You know what? Well, this would make a great question, but we won't do that. We've already got a question. Two more. Two more. Oh. And let's just say you cannot meet Satoshi Yeah. Because that would be everybody's first choice.
[00:50:55] Kenshin:
Yeah. I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, that's obvious. But no. Except Satoshi. Jack. Mhmm. Who else? Now I'm drawing a blank. Oh. Oh, the the the guy you interviewed.
[00:51:15] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Eric? Is that who you're talking about?
[00:51:18] Kenshin:
The the the Maybe.
[00:51:20] McIntosh:
God damn it. Seed signer. Who are you? Seed signer. Oh, okay. Sure. What's his name? Well, that's his name. Very good. I have no idea what his name is. That is literally what he goes by. He does not divulge his name. Okay. Good.
[00:51:39] Kenshin:
I don't know. Who who are your three? Three more.
[00:51:42] McIntosh:
Oh, you'll just steal one of them. Yeah. I see where this is going. Adam Back Right.
[00:51:48] Kenshin:
Who frankly I was thinking about Adam Back, but I I don't know if I like him. I don't I'm not I'm not convinced.
[00:51:55] McIntosh:
Without bit without Adam Back, there would not be bit. Sure. He he's a brilliant mind. We can discuss a I really wanna have that podcast. We've talked about this. This he was actually the the reason why I wanted to have that podcast that we decided not to do Right. Last week or the week before, because, yeah, I don't wanna let the cat out of the bag. Add him back. I want I would love to he clearly, he's a very smart person. Hal Finney.
[00:52:25] Kenshin:
Yeah. But alive.
[00:52:27] McIntosh:
Somebody well, you did well, I didn't qualify. Okay.
[00:52:32] Kenshin:
I didn't qualify. Hal Finney was
[00:52:35] McIntosh:
after Satus, it's Hal Finney. Legend. I mean, seriously. Like, he received the first Bitcoin transaction. He wrote some of the early papers. Like, I know he wrote about his theory that there would be, like really, I think what we're seeing starting to evolve with eCash, right, on Bitcoin. Basically, private banks, Fedimint, this kind of thing. He wrote about that. The third one, I like Jack. What? But I'm not Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Just remembrance.
[00:53:14] Kenshin:
My third one.
[00:53:16] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Now you got me off track. And and, honestly, I maybe I would say Eric Hersman if I'd never met him, but I have met him in person. I've interviewed him twice, and and I would do it again in a heartbeat. No. I've only interviewed him once or twice. I don't think we ever got the second interview put together. And I would do it again, but if it were somebody I never met, I would probably actually say Alex. And he's he's a peripheral Bitcoin type person, but he's really cool. And he has a lot look. You guys don't understand. If you don't follow him, you don't have any idea. He the stuff he does to help promote Bitcoin in places that people need it, like Iran.
I'll just give you an example. Okay. Who's your third? Saifedean
[00:54:15] Kenshin:
Amoz.
[00:54:17] McIntosh:
Interesting. Yeah. See, he's somebody, kinda like what you were saying about Adam Back. I go back and forth on him. Obviously, very smart. I have his book, The Bitcoin Standard. I also have his book Shit. The Principles of Economics. I have not read The Principles of Economics. I'm actually considering taking you on my vacation because, you know, nothing says awesome reading, like, 300 pages of economic, well, you know, to each their own. But, yeah, I'm sometimes I'm a little yeah. Whatever. We do need to make a full episode of that. I really think that would actually be a good episode down the road. Alright. Great. Oh. Where were we at? Completely derailed. I think we're done with this I just want to add one thing. Yes, sir. For me
[00:55:07] Kenshin:
Mhmm. What proved that Trump was not the Bitcoin president was the first day of his election. He opened his mouth? He I mean, a Trump coin. I mean, that that's just proof. That that was obvious.
[00:55:22] McIntosh:
Oh, yeah. No. That sealed it. Yeah. No. You're you're a 100% right. So we did and and funny enough, Alex actually does it. I don't think he even went into that. But he has he and his
[00:55:37] Kenshin:
Some?
[00:55:38] McIntosh:
Businesses, shall we say, They have gone and and enriched themselves off of this stuff. The the Trump and Melania coins alone, the millions of dollars, like Billions. Strictly because there's fools out in this country who just because they believe Donald Trump is well, I really wanna be careful what I say. You know, such a great person, they're gonna go out and buy his token.
[00:56:09] Kenshin:
I mean, the volume on, like, one of those days in the beginning was 50,000,000,000.
[00:56:16] McIntosh:
It's it's crazy. And then they just unloaded everything. What I you know, it's just a chipotle.
[00:56:23] Kenshin:
Altcoin It's 88.6% down from the all time high.
[00:56:30] McIntosh:
Yeah. That's a good point. I'm glad you brought that up because, yeah, that was certainly another reason, but I was already alright. Look. I just hope he doesn't do bad things, and we're fixed to talk about some of that. And, you know, maybe comes up with some decent legislation. I've given up the idea that he could, like, say, no cap gains on Bitcoin. You know, let's just make it a currency. He's he is living and dying by the dollar as the currency of The United States. And maybe he should. I don't know. That's not what's best for me, but I don't know. Next. Okay.
Moving on up. For the next one, we're gonna pick up the pace here because we are getting a little long, a lot long. This is actually not directly Bitcoin related. I didn't. I keep I try and keep up with Nepal. I've talked about Nepal over the years a number of times. I would love to go there and set up mining operation, but they unfortunately ban all forms of crypto at this point as far as I understand it. Because back in 2021, they had some scammers come in, sadly. But I don't know what's actually going on, but apparently, politically, they're having a lot of upheaval. Okay?
And on September, this article gives the date. It was in September. It was September 4 or yeah. September 4, the the Nepali government banned 26 major social media platforms. Because of social unrest, I'm not exactly sure why, and I'm not gonna act like I do know. But because of that, the protesting got even worse, and they started using BitChat. Have you heard of BitChat?
[00:58:37] Kenshin:
I have tried it, but not much.
[00:58:42] McIntosh:
I you really need to I don't wanna say be in something like this, but you need to be in, like, a large group of people where basically other people are using it or it's kind of useless, I guess. Yeah. It's like any messaging
[00:58:56] Kenshin:
of you need someone to talk to. But it operates
[00:58:59] McIntosh:
over Bluetooth. Right. So it doesn't even have to use Internet. Now they're including the Nostra protocol, but you basically in a large situation like this where maybe you have a 100,000 protesters, if you've got a lot of people who are using that in that crowd, you build a mesh network. And you can use that to communicate in a way that basically is impossible for the government to intercept. So, it was downloaded 49,000 times on September 8 in Nepal. Mhmm. Okay. So clearly and I'm not gonna comment on what's going on. There's a lot of chaos. I know the prime minister has stepped down.
Apparently, they burned the parliament house or whatever. So I don't know. I'm not on the ground there. I have not been able to keep up with it over the last year or so. I'm not gonna talk about all that. I do think it's interesting that they use that app Yeah. For that.
[01:00:09] Kenshin:
And it's not a unique app. I mean, I've tried in the past, like, prior. It was very similar.
[01:00:18] McIntosh:
Another similar see I vaguely heard of. Yep. For some reason, this one's really taken off, though. Of course, it's, Jack Dorsey behind it. Because it's Noster. Because Cali. Because Jack Dorsey. Yeah. Jack Dorsey did originally. So Jack Dorsey created the original client. He vibe coded it. He it's what he said. And basically turned it over and people started updating and, you know, kind of building a real app around it. I thought that was pretty cool, actually. Yeah. This billionaire vibe coding, a freedom app, and that's what it's for. Alright. The next one, this the next two stories are on the rage, the rage.co.
The US government is trying to bring the Patriot Act to digital assets, and this is what I was talking about. This this would and and I'm not saying this is what Donald Trump is pushing. I don't know where this is coming from, frankly, and I hope that this gets pushed down and stopped before it ever really takes off. Okay? I will say that. We will just have to see. But, basically, in a nutshell, because we are low on time, there was a hearing and the FinCEN directory, director, confirmed that the treasury so this is the treasury. These are people who are would be under Scott Besant, if I'm not mistaken, is working on finalizing the so called mixer rule, which uses the Patriot Act, which was terribly misnamed and has been highly abused since 2001 to prohibit private transactions in cryptocurrency.
So this is literally the exact opposite of what I was saying earlier about we need more privacy in Bitcoin. They're saying, no. You can't mix your Bitcoin. You can't obfuscate your, blockchain trail, so to speak, because we need to know everything about you, your effects, and what you do, which to me is a direct violation of that first I don't know what amendment it is. Sorry. Whichever amendment it is. My right to privacy and my effects and papers. There we go. I'm not gonna go through all that, but they are finalizing it. I don't see this as being a good thing. I do not.
[01:02:54] Kenshin:
And I really hope this gets That only proves that the mixing services actually work.
[01:03:02] McIntosh:
Yes. They do. Yeah. Of course, they do. Now they can be, they're not easy. You can do something wrong and, you know, you can make a mistake. I want that bulletproof privacy built into Bitcoin right out of the gate. I I wanna make it almost impossible
[01:03:23] Kenshin:
Mhmm. For that. And I I have said in the past, I like the Jam, j a m. That's a nice Yes. To use.
[01:03:32] McIntosh:
Mhmm. Yes. It is. That would be the one that I would be using if I was, but as I already told you, I am not. So now I'm gonna have to put that on my list of things. Your own notes and etcetera. So it's not easy, of course.
[01:03:49] Kenshin:
Okay. I got some It's easy for you, but as you said, you want it in a mainstream Bitcoin
[01:03:57] McIntosh:
wallets. Yeah. No. You're right. No. That's a perfect point. I mean, it really wouldn't be too hard for me to do that. Now if I did it correctly, I'm not so sure. Yeah. I mean, probably, but no. But for the average person, they can't spin up an instance and, like, go tweak things and this and that. I've spent twenty five years learning these skills. I mean, you know? Alright. The last thing I wanna close out on this, and we do need to get moving on. The treasury is also working on Bank Secrecy Act reforms. So I don't know. Apparently, everybody hates the Bank Secrecy Act all of a sudden, which I've only been railing about for twenty years.
Yeah. Right? You know what? Do you even know what I'm talking this is the one where you like, when you go on the bank and say, hey. I need to wire $10,000 to this account. They're like, why are you doing this? What's it for? Why are you supporting, you know, child pornography and, you know, whatever.
[01:05:07] Kenshin:
Right? Yeah. I mean, we we know this very good here in Europe.
[01:05:10] McIntosh:
But I thought this was a very good article because it literally apparently at the hearing. Ironically, that same person, Andrea Gaki, the defense in director, was talking about how bad the BSA was, essentially. How little they literally I think it's a woman, and if it's not, I apologize. But I believe they literally asked her, like oh, I'm not gonna say it because now I don't I don't see it. I'm not gonna remember it exactly. Oh, here it is. The the director of the treasury's own financial intelligence, unit was able to tell communication committee sorry, the committee that they were talking to, how efficient or inefficient the BSA really is.
I'm sorry. I don't have those numbers off the top of my head, Gaki replied to none, the senator, who asked her how many of the tens of millions of BSA reports filed each year lead to actual arrest. I want to know that number. I don't care that that person does not have that off the top of my head. I want to go find it. Call somebody. Act like a person who's in charge. Figure it out because that number is critical. And I bet that number is really low. And if you look at the ratios, they're ridiculous. So why are you taking all of our information when it turns into just a few arrests.
To round things out with the news, I I don't have a whole lot of time about to talk about this, really. But right before we started recording, Jerome Powell did I probably should've led with this Bad bad Macintosh. Fed, chairman Jerome Powell, they cut the rates a quarter of a percent, which is like the bare minimum. They can't really do it any less other than zero. And given all the data they've been handed the last few weeks, they they basically realized they had to do something. So it's a start. It is amazing to me how much higher our rates are versus, like, Sweden's. You said they were two point something. Two point zero. And we're now down to around, like, four four point o to, like, four one or something is the actual rates or whatever.
I'm not I don't quite understand how that works, but it's not really a fixed rate, which is kind of wild. But yeah. So I suspect, two months from now, they'll lower it another quarter of a point and so on. So we will grind down, and, hopefully, that will somewhat stimulate the economy because Mhmm. We need it. Okay. What's our price in Bitcoin, sir? Happy
[01:08:25] Kenshin:
you asked. It's 116,110.
[01:08:30] McIntosh:
Up Really? Since we started. Yeah. It's it was kind of a buy the news sell what do they call it? Buy the rumor sell the news. It was up to 117, and then it fell, down to 114, I think, or so ish. I don't know. But, yeah, it's starting to recover. The market did not I think the market wanted more. I I looked at it, remember, as we started recording and said, hey. Everything's red. Like, everything was red. Like, the stock market, Bitcoin, the Bitcoin stocks, it was all down. It's like, this doesn't make any sense. Everybody was expecting rates. October is almost here. Sorry.
I guess I it's such a fickle thing. Anyways, how many euros? 90 How many euros? Where do you go? €98,200.
[01:09:31] Kenshin:
And price since this time last year, that was 60,300. That brings us around 92% up.
[01:09:41] McIntosh:
Around 92. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Our gold versus Bitcoin market cap really is unchanged. It's 9%, 2,340,000,000,000.00 for Bitcoin, 25,600,000,000,000.0 for gold. Gold is actually up a little bit this week. We are at an all time high again. Last I saw 3,720. Let's see how that's changed. Sorry. I've got it right here. $36.96. So, yeah, it it fell too. So weird. Mhmm. So 3,700 anyways, but that's up. Fees, very low, one sat per vBuy. I did see this is the first time in months the mempool is, quote, filled. Like, it's the average mempool is only 300 megabytes, and we are at 331 megabytes of unprocessed transactions, a 136,000
[01:10:46] Kenshin:
transactions. That we are down to one sat per view bytes too. Yeah.
[01:10:52] McIntosh:
Yeah. I I I I gave up. I I don't even it is weird. It is weird. I think a lot's going on on the Lightning Network that people just really aren't aware. I think that's gonna show up in the reports. I think River puts out one, for example, about the lightning network because they can somewhat track kind of the volume. Yeah. In mempool dot space, you you have a a page for lightning. Mhmm. There it is. So we we can track it there. Do you do you wanna start tracking that? I don't know. We Yeah. I don't know. Could Let's look into it, what we could track. People are already screaming. This is too long. They do wanna add more.
Oh. Interesting. Alright. Satoshi's Plebs is a value for value podcast, supporting podcasting two point o. By the way, I need to take some time to talk about that. Things are kinda rough in the podcasting two point o space. We are trying to figure things out. I don't ever talk about it because it's not directly related. I wanna talk about this though right now instead of the rest of this. It's become very difficult to send boost. Basically, if you don't use fountain, it may not make it to us. Things are kind of in flux, and I hope that they improve. If they don't, I'm afraid the whole streaming and boosting and all that stuff is just gonna kinda die on the vine because it's not fully matured.
And there are changes that need to be made. They need to be made by all of the applications or at least the majority of them. There's just things that need to happen, and I don't have the answers. I'm just a bystander on this whole thing because I am a podcaster, and this is kind of how I'm trying to make some value for myself. You know? But, yeah, just keep that in mind. If you have a problem and can't get a boost through to us, please feel free to reach out to us. The best way is probably on. Yeah. So that's it.
[01:13:06] Kenshin:
Okay. So thanks everyone for being here. We hope this has been helpful, and we would love to hear from you. Yes. You can find all our contact info at satoshis.com. Stay humble. And have a great weekend.
[01:13:23] McIntosh:
We'll talk to you all soon.
[01:13:25] Kenshin:
Bye bye.
[01:15:10] Unknown:
Don't know what happens. Things I know I should know, but I know how to play guitar. Don't know what happens. Things I know I should know, but I know how to play guitar.
Introductions
Listener boosts: value, gold, and fiat—reading and reactions
Executive Order 6102 analogy
Main topic kickoff: What we hate about Bitcoin
Kenshin: Personal safety, $5 wrench risk, and talking about Bitcoin in public
Custody futures: multisig, shared key services, and mainstream models
Macintosh: Privacy pains—anonymity vs. privacy and wallet UX needs
Pragmatism vs. principles: personal privacy habits and toggleable privacy dream
Another gripe: community drama, greed, and social media nastiness
Node wars: Core vs. alternatives, client diversity, and network stats
News segment: Alex Gladstein’s “Trump is not the Bitcoin president”
Why politicians love stablecoins: treasuries, dollar support, and Tether’s rise
Trumpcoins and incentives—why this isn’t a pro‑Bitcoin agenda
Global snapshot: Nepal bans social platforms, BitChat mesh comms surge
Policy alert: Mixer rule, Patriot Act framing, and the push against privacy
Bank Secrecy Act effectiveness questioned at hearing
Macro quick hit: Fed rate cut reaction and market moves
Price, gold, mempool and fees; lightning tracking idea
Podcasting 2.0 woes: boosts, delivery issues, and listener guidance
Closing: contact info, sign‑off, and outro music
