McIntosh challenges Michael Saylor's "never sell your Bitcoin" messaging, arguing it contradicts Austrian economics principles and Bitcoin's purpose as money. Use the text of some of the greats of Austrian Economics it's time to take a hard look at a prominent Bitcoin meme and the possibilities of the destruction of Bitcoin's utility.
Stick around to the very end for the v4v track, “Live For Tomorrow ” by Kazuki Tokaji
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
July 2nd, 2025: $109,606 USD / €92,361 EUR
Block Height at Time of Recording: 903,753
Episode Page
https://satoshis-plebs.com/episode-216
Music Credits
Kazuki Tokaji
Live For Tomorrow
Website
https://satoshis-plebs.com
Podcasting 2.0 Apps available at http://podcastapps.com and Value4Value information page available here: https://value4value.info
McIntosh can be reached by email at [email protected] and on Twitter at @McIntoshFinTech. His mastodon handle is @[email protected] and his Nostr. Kenshin can be reached on Twitter at @kenshin_ninja or on Nostr. Kenshin’s email is [email protected]. You can also follow the Satoshi’s Plebs podcast account on Nostr. We are looking forward to hearing from you!
We are looking forward to hearing from you!
[00:00:00]
McIntosh:
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is July the 2nd, and this is episode 216 of Satoshi's Plebs. Today is gonna be a little bit different. Kenshin is not here today. He had a work commitment that he just had to take care of. So I'm here all by myself. Today, we're gonna be talking about something a little bit different, something that's been kind of bugging me, to be honest. And I don't really know how to explain it right here in this intro. But, essentially, we'll be talking about Bitcoin as a store of value and a medium of exchange. And if you don't know what that means, then you certainly need to hang on.
Alright. So, yes, as I said, this is gonna be a little bit different. We are at block Height 903753 as we record. The price of Bitcoin in US dollars is $109,606. In Euros, it is 92,361. Alright. So, no real news for me this week. We're just gonna skip that segment. Work has got crazy level of crazy. Like, I need a break. We've got stuff that we have to have out very soon in the next few weeks. I sound I think I've been saying that for a while, but, yeah, in a couple of weeks. And when it gets done, I'm probably just gonna take, like, at least a few days off from work.
Normally, our next section is supporters. We actually don't have any boost this week. There were a couple of things I wanted to point out. We had a comment on our podcast post, I think, in Nostr from ama. And they said this, Bitcoin is at an all time high in USD terms, but far from in Euro terms because USD is depreciating in terms of the Euro. There isn't a discrepancy or anything. It's how currencies work. Look at the forex to understand that. I do understand that, and there is certainly truth to that. And, frankly, it may be depreciating faster than I understood.
It's down, like, 12% year to date or something like that. I did not realize it had been depreciating that fast. Of course, that's kind of one of the goals of the president. So whether he intentionally is getting that or is just kind of a natural thing, we are actually looking he is, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but we're looking at having the dollar be kind of less powerful, weaker, so to speak, to help bring in manufacturing and this kind of thing into The United States. That's not really what we're here to talk about tonight. But just as a side note, I know Kenshin has been saying something about that, and, this listener, appreciate that. They picked up on that.
So there we go. I am not someone who is just a cheerleader for my country. I do realize that, you know, the reality is that's what it is. I when I don't know. Maybe it is dropping, you know, a percent or two in the span of a week. I don't know. I don't follow it closely enough to know. But it's just whatever. So good to know. And I also wanted to mention one more thing. So appreciate that AMA. Bullish Bitcoin, which I think I've got some little software note about as well. He wrote some software, which is kinda cool. I will mention that in the software section, but he made a couple of clips of last week's episode, or the week before. I don't remember if it was 2015 or 2014, but regardless, I really appreciate that. That was really cool. Did that on Fountain. They show up there, and I'm pretty sure there's other list or whatever that they show up in. It gives us more exposure, and I appreciate that. He made some clips of when Kenshin and I were talking about our vibe coding journey. So thank you very much, Bullish Bitcoin. That is a great way to support the show.
So thank you. I don't have a way to directly support that. Fountain took that ability away a long time ago, actually, and I'm kinda disappointed about that. But I do appreciate it. And we see you on Noster. We see the support that you do there as well, and you are doing some interesting things over there. We've mentioned your shop from time to time, and now you're getting into coding. So very cool. Alright. So what is this week all about? The title of the episode is do you know more than Mises, and I hope I'm saying that right, and Rothbard.
The Mises that I'm referring to is Ludwig von Mises, and Rothbard is Murray in Rothbard. They're both well known in the Austrian economics circles, so to speak. Rothbard is more recent. I think he's actually still alive. I'm not a 100% certain about that, and I may be frankly wrong. But, he is certainly more modern than, Ludwig von Mises, but they are both solidly grounded in Austrian economics. Now for just a very brief aside, if you don't know what I mean by that, there are kind of, well, look. You can argue about this, and that's fine. The way I view it, there are two main, economic viewpoints of macroeconomics, kind of the world economics.
Keynesian economics from a guy named, Keynes, who, became very famous right before the Great Depression or during the Great Depression, really, and Austrian economics. And it was created I should know this. Carl Aye Aye. Carl Menger. So he, founded the Austrian School of Economics. He, established its core principles. He published a book in 1871 called the Principles of Economics, that established this school of thought. And, basically, if you kind of compare Austrian economics with Keynesian economics, they are diametrically opposed. Keynes had no issue with the government issuing debt.
Debt's really not a big deal for them. I don't know. It's just endless. Like, Fiat, what we would call Fiat these days, was a good thing. Alright? Austrian economics, on the other hand, believed in one of its primary principles would be the belief in a solid economic underpinning, which back then would have been based on gold. Gold may be in silver, as units of account, as ways to pay each other. Why? Because they were limited. You you you had a maybe not a fixed supply because we continue to mine gold and silver to this day, but you had a a supply that did grow very slowly, especially well, certainly back then.
I would assume that it grew even more slowly than it did now with modern technology. I think now it only gains about 2% a year, maybe even a little bit less in the total gold supply that is available. But the idea was we we operate with kind of this fixed supply of money. You know, we don't go out and do stupid things with that money. The government doesn't bail people out. I don't know if that's specifically in there, but, you know, it was really a much more conservative, view. And I would tell you that Carl Minger would be appalled, frankly, at what's going on in The United States and basically every country around the world with the printing of money. We just passed 37 trillion dollars here in The United States. Hoorah. We're number one. We lead the world in total debt, not in total percent of debt debt to GDP, which I think is Japan, if I'm not mistaken.
But we do have the most, the the biggest total. And I try not to be political in this show, but I will point out one thing. Trump ran on this platform, which I don't know if he ever directly came out and said it, but it would certainly be, you know, the smaller government. We need to cut the debt, this kind of thing. And yet literally this week, he has he has come out. And if you really wanna know, if you're really curious, I guess I can pull it out next week or whatever, but he has come out and said, you know, we're gonna print money. And he's doing it because they have to win the election.
That's why. Now I don't think he exactly said that. It was a quote. It was a tweet, or whatever they call it on truth social, and it got mirrored on Nostr. I actually kinda thought it was very interesting. Hang on just a second. Try and find it real quick. Well, shoot. Well, mister Trump, you need to get faster servers on your truth social. I think he owns that. Whatever. It doesn't matter. But basically, he said something to the effect, we're gonna pass this big beautiful bill and which is the big big bill. It's gigantic in congress right now.
And, I'm gonna sign it, and we're gonna print money. That's, almost what he said. He almost didn't even hide it really at all, and it's all about the midterm elections. And it's ridiculous, because what we're doing is is continuing to go down this Keynesian path. Alright. So what's Macintosh really upset about? Because that actually isn't it. I'm I mean, that's that is not shocking to me in the least. I mean, I don't know that I would have called it, but it doesn't shock me one bit that that's actually what's turning out. What the the orange party, what the red party is figuring out is that the only way that they're going to get out of the mess that we're in and kick the ball down the court to the next set of people is print more money.
So we'll have more debt, but everybody will look good and the assets like houses, stocks will go up because that's what happens when we print money. Really not what I'm upset about. I'm not upset. I just I noticed something, and I've noticed it in the last few weeks. This meme has been around for a while, but Michael Saylor came out, said something. And so because it's Michael Saylor, everybody's gotta repeat it. And I'm kinda tired of it. And I wanted to have a chat about it if that's okay with you, and, we'll discuss it because I think it's actually really important.
So Michael Saylor said, don't sell your Bitcoin. He said, don't sell your Bitcoin. He said, you should never sell your Bitcoin. And he said it in multiple ways, and he said it multiple times over the last few weeks. It's kind of his new thing, his new shtick. If you've ever seen Michael Saylor, and sometimes he can, he can put together a very good presentation, but he will just kinda get on one thing, and then he'll just kinda just say it over and over in modestly different ways maybe, but that's the reality of it. And this is his current little shtick. Don't sell your Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you that if first of all, let's do a little thought exercise. This is real easy, so hang on with me.
If we all didn't sell our Bitcoin, what would happen? Number would go up. Maybe maybe for a little while. Maybe for a while, but it would never replace Fiat. Are we in this to replace Fiat, or are we in this to make a couple of bucks? Because even though I do want Bitcoin to go up and because of its characteristics, I believe it will. I'm actually in this to replace fiat because you know what? I am tired of fiat ruining people's lives. Macintosh, what are you talking about? I believe that one of the biggest causes of inflation is simply money printing. I don't think we have any idea the amount of inflation that happens.
Well well, McIntosh, the the the CPI is only like 3%, 4%. That's pretty good, McIntosh. Well, first of all, the CPI is flawed. If you think the government is telling you the real numbers are on inflation, then I got some great property in the middle of Timbuktu that I need to sell you for top dollar because, buddy, you're gullible. Okay. Now second, let's just assume that that is true. Let's assume. Let's assume that that the CPI number, 4%, whatever it is, is actually accurate. Okay. Do you realize that in your lifetime, the value of your money will get cut in half? Do you mean that if I'm 30 and I set aside $10,000 that by the time that I retire, that that's only gonna be worth half as much?
Yes. It's not gonna be $5,000 It's going to only be able to purchase $5,000 in that previous time span. Like, if you would have, let's say that $10,000 hang on with me because this is maybe a little slippery. When I'm 30 years old, I take $10,000 and I could buy well, I could buy three ounces of gold. Let's just say I could buy three ounces of gold. I don't know what that is per ounce. It's roughly what it is right now. By the time that I'm 70, that $10,000 would only be able to buy an ounce and a half. And it's like that for basically everything. If you don't have your dollars invested in something that's actually going to appreciate even more than the interest, then then this inflation rate, then, you know, you're going to go backwards.
And I'm not okay with that because money should not lose value over time. Used to not. It used to be an ounce of gold would buy you a good suit. You know what? An ounce of gold will still buy you. And by a good suit, I don't mean the Sears suit. I mean a really nice suit, really. It still does. A hundred years ago, a good suit. A hundred years now a good suit. A hundred years ago, a $100 might no, dollars 20 would buy that suit. Now, what, dollars 3,200, dollars 3,300, whatever gold is. Do you see what I'm saying? A true monetary unit holds its value. It doesn't go down. It shouldn't.
So I'm mad because that's being robbed from from my generation, from your generation, really from from every generation since certainly since 1971. You could argue actually far further back than that. We've been robbed, but nobody does anything about it. And here's our chance to do something about it. And morons, excuse me, people who I don't agree with. Look, Michael Saylor, really smart guy, obviously got lots of money, blah blah blah, but he is wrong on this. And when somebody who has that much influence is out there saying, don't sell your Bitcoin, we need to have a talk about it.
Because if you don't if everybody doesn't sell you their Bitcoin, it's not money, ladies and gentlemen. It's something else. It's a speculative asset, I guess. And that's not what I got into this for. Again, I got into this to replace Fiat. Right? Are you with me so far? Because I'm gonna wrap this up really quick here. This is actually gonna be a short episode. I know that's shocking. But because Michael Saylor's out there saying it, now people are repeating it. And there have been other people over the years certainly, maybe not with as big a platform saying, don't sell your Bitcoin. Don't sell your Bitcoin. It doesn't matter what happens. Don't sell your Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, when you need to sell your Bitcoin, sell your Bitcoin.
Bitcoin should be a money. And I don't care about all of this other stuff that's going on in government, but you know what I do care about? Take the capital gains tax off Bitcoin. It's not it can't be a money. It can't really function as a money until that's done. Now supposedly with this big beautiful bill that is going through congress as I speak, there was supposed to be an amendment to at least what do they call it? A de minimis sale or something of like, if you sold $600 or less of Bitcoin, you weren't going to be charged cap gains tax. That's a start. But really, it should be the whole thing. It should not matter when you bought your Bitcoin for how much. It's just money.
And money can be a gold is a store of value. It can be both. Gold was a store of value when we were trading, dollars 20 gold pieces, one ounce, dollars 20, ladies and gentlemen. And that was not too long ago. Inflation did that, by the way, just to be clear. Oh, to finish the thought about the inflation, which I never did complete the circle. One of the reasons why inflation has not been so bad is because of the huge gains in technology that we have had since basically, since I was born. So for decades now, we've been making these monstrous leaps forward.
And just think about it. Just the simplest thing, your TV. Back in 1980, color TV cost 400 maybe $400 I don't know. It was probably more than that. 4 or $500. It was a tiny little thing. You you know, you're getting over the air broadcast. If you're lucky, you get kind of something there, whatever. I remember because that was the first time we bought a color TV. And now for $400 I can at least get a gigantic, I don't know, probably, bigger than 32 inches TV for whatever the next size is, 40, maybe 50 inches high definition, more color display, lighter weight.
I mean, just so on and so forth. So not only is it the same price, but that doesn't take into account the fact that money has depreciated. How many years out are we? Forty five years from 1980. So that $400 is actually worth it was a lot more in 1980. You see, it was like, now it would be, the equivalent. Gosh. Maybe not 10 to one. I'd have to look it up. But I bet it would be worth well over a thousand dollars. I'm sure it would be worth over a thousand dollars. Let's just say that. Okay. So the thousand dollar TV in today's term was a tiny little screen, not a very good quality signal, not a very high resolution, etcetera.
Now it's lighter, cheaper, way I already said weighs less, higher resolution, and so on. It's only because of the advances that we've made electronics and computers, technology, and industry in general that inflation hasn't eaten us alive. They hide under these advances. That's why, in theory, our inflation rate has only been three it's like right at 3% historically since, going back a good bit. I don't know. It might even not be all the way back to, like, 1913 or something. But we've spent decades going through this technological revolution, certainly since the fifties, and I think you could argue it's been going back longer than that.
I believe Bitcoin was built on the foundations of Austrian economics. Okay? I believe that most Bitcoiners at least call themselves Austrian economics. They'll say, oh, yes. Things like the 21,000,000 Bitcoin, that's a Austrian economics principle. Certainly, we limit the supply of money. We don't print money, so to speak, and so on and so forth. But then when somebody says, hold your Bitcoin, I go back to the giants of Austrian economics, and I read things like Ludwig von Mises, who he was a disciple of Karl Menninger, if I'm remembering correctly. The functions of money as a transmitter of value through time and space may also be directly traced to its function as a medium of exchange. So in other words, if I'm going to use money to transmit my value through time and space, so I'm going to give my Bitcoin to my children if I so choose, and they're going to enjoy the benefits of that, it can be traced back to its function as a medium of exchange. In other words, if it's not used as a medium of exchange, ultimately, that transmission of value fails.
Murray Vaughn Murray n Rothbard. Because gold is a general medium, it is the most marketable. It can be stored to serve as a medium in the future as well in the present, and all prices are expressed in these terms. Because gold is a commodity medium for all exchanges, it can serve as a unit of account for present and expected future prices. It is important to realize that money cannot be an abstract unit of account or claim except insofar as it serves as a medium of exchange. Both of these gentlemen think it's really important that money serve as a medium of exchange.
Now you may not have understood every word I said. I'll be honest. I probably didn't as well, and I've read a lot of these books. Some of them can be quite difficult, but I think the general idea is very clear. In order to operate as money, it has to have a function as a medium of exchange. In other words, money cannot just be a store of value. So, again, I go back to the question, are we creating money, or are we creating this number go up asset? Because we need to decide. And I will look Michael Saylor, who has 1,000,000,000 times more money than I do and say, Michael Saylor, you are flat wrong and you do not understand money.
Because of this, We're either Austrian or we're Keynesian. You cannot be both. And I am not a Keynesian, ladies and gentlemen. If you ever thought that I was, you are mistaken. The government has no role in creating money out of thin air. The government has no role in arbitrarily saying this is money and that is not. But, Macintosh, you do tell people to say Bitcoin. Well, of course, I do because it is a storage of value. It is a transmitter of value through time and space. I believe that. But not only is it that it is a medium of exchange in places like Bitcoin Beach down in El Salvador, in, Bitcoin Jungle down in Costa Rica, at various places in various parts of Africa, and I use Bitcoin as money as frequently as I can despite the difficulties in doing so because I believe that that's what Bitcoin is for.
And you know what? I'm smart enough that if I spend a $100 value worth of Bitcoin, I can turn around and buy a $100 worth of value of Bitcoin with my fiat that will be depreciating anyways. So stop telling people not to sell their Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, if you had 10 Bitcoin and you had debt on your house, I would tell you to sell some Bitcoin and get the debt off your house. I don't think you should be in that kind of debt with that kind of Bitcoin. Now you do you, boo. Okay. Just you do you. I'm just saying, I think that'd be a good idea. I don't know what else to say, so I'm just gonna kinda wrap it up there. But when you hear these people say this stuff, and if you're involved in this medium, if you're involved in Bitcoin enough, you will hear this. Please push back.
If you don't, well, if you believe what I just said. I guess if you don't, then don't say anything. But this stuff is so important because if it's not a medium of exchange, it will eventually not serve the purpose that it was designed for. And you cannot tell me that it was not designed to replace dollars, fiat currency, currency that is backed by nothing except excessive power. Okay. That's it. Question of the week. Do you use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange in any form? Please boost in and let us know. I would love to hear from you. I'm sure this would have been nicer if Kenjin was here. I do miss him.
I think this is the first time we've recorded with just one of us. It won't be the last. Life is life, and there are times when we just have to be away. And I I'm actually gonna become more intentional about that. But he probably would have been a little bit softer about this. He already has an idea for next week's, which is kind of a follow on about this. We'll see. I don't wanna overwhelm you all with economics talk, but frankly, we haven't had any a while, and I think this stuff is really important. I do. You have to understand. By the way, if you have no grounding in this at all, I would start with a book called The Bitcoin Standard. If you get through that and you want more, The Principles of Economics, I believe, both by Saifedean Amuse, great books.
All of the Austrian economics type books are out there and available. A lot of them are public domain because they're so old, but I will tell you they are not easy to read as someone who has read them. But we have choices, and these choices will ultimately decide the fates of our country. If you wanna know what happens to a country that's on a fiat standard until the end, go read oh, what was the name of that book? When Money Dies, The Nightmare of the Weimar Hyperinflation by Adam Ferguson. That is the one that I have read. There's another one apparently called The Downfall of Money, Germany's hyperinflation and the destruction of the middle class, which was talked about in Adam's book. I read Adam's book.
Maybe I should read this other one. But one of the things that we are seeing here in The United States is the destruction of the middle class, and I don't think it's just limited to us here. Go read those books. It's they're shocking. Shocking. I'm telling you. And, you know, we just keep marching down this path. I've given up trying to predict when it's gonna happen. I do not know, but I do know that, you know, we cannot sustain continued debt levels like we've got. Alright. Hey. That was kind of a bummer. Let's talk about some nice things, news and notes. Don't really have any news and notes. I do have a software update. I wanted to mention this I've already said.
And because it was one of our listeners wrote oh, here's a really cool tool. I posted this, on Noster, the FrostSnap, which looks like a new device that you can do, a multisig setup Really, really simply, it looks like. And SeedSigner had a new release, zero dot eight six. And they now have support for large displays, which I am super excited about because that's one of the biggest drawbacks I have with SeedSiner. It has a very small display and someone who has, issues with their eyes. It's hard for me to read, frankly. So I'm looking forward to that. I will probably end up buying a new one maybe next year.
Oh, man. Hey, guys. Do me a favor. Kenshin is a big f one fan, and I don't know if he didn't see this. He didn't respond. There was a movie called f one about f one racing that just came out. Boost in and say, hey, Kenshin. Have you seen the movie yet on f one racing? Or it literally is actually called f one. Do that. That's something else you can boost about. I can't find this. What, bullish Bitcoin. I I don't wanna get this wrong. I know I retweeted it. What? Not retweeted. Whatever. Whatever you call it, Anoster. And I I don't see it. Oh, I did actually retweet a thing, and pointed at Kenshin about the Bitcoin, euro dollar, all that showing how the dollar was getting weaker.
I'm not gonna argue about that. I'm I agree. Maybe I just didn't realize it was happening so fast. Man, I don't see it. Long it was long oh, man. Bullish Bitcoin. I don't wanna get this wrong. I'm just gonna find it. Hang on. Oh, here it is right here. It's the bullish bitcoin. I apologize. Bitcoiner. I'm sorry. Man, I butchered that. I apologize. The bullish bitcoiner. And, you should follow him on Noster, but he has a new program. I guess, as far as I can tell, he wrote this, which is cool. Yeah. And absolutely very cool called long form.
Long form content is such a staple in communication. One could even say it's an art form. I've used a number of long form clients, but none of them made me happy. So I set out to create the one I'd like to see in the world, enter long form. A clean minimal client focused on everything long form. And then so there's a new version of this out. You can find it, on Noster. You should follow him and, Groovy. I don't write a lot of long form these days. Bullish. I I actually used to write more like that, and I would kinda like to get back into the swing of things. But to be honest, I don't have time, and I'm not gonna prioritize it. So there's that.
There it just is. But if you do any kind of writing, you should check that out. I can 100% support that. Very, very cool. Alright. I did not look up last year's price. Let's just assume it was somewhere around 62,000, and we're up a lot. I'm sorry, guys. It's just been a crazy week. I am not exaggerating. One sat per vbyte, mempool. We had a huge difficulty drop, 7.48%, just a few days ago, and it was because of that heat wave. No. We did not knock out Iran's Bitcoin miners. Hey. Satoshi Spebs is value for value podcast supporting podcasting two point o. No ads. No sponsorships. Just honest Bitcoin content even when it makes us uncomfortable.
I deliberately avoid sponsors because even if I love a company, taking their money would influence my opinion. What if something goes wrong with that company, I would hesitate to warn you. Instead, I ask simply, are you getting value from the show? Support it through time, talent, or treasure. We have seen all three of these. We have people out there boosting. We have people who are supporting the show, making clips. Thank you again, the Bullish Bitcoiner, things like that. Awesome, awesome stuff. You can simply grab a podcasting two point o app and stream sats or boost with messages, even just a 100 sats saying something like great show or, you know, you suck.
I'll read it either way. So, you can check out a list of those apps at podcastapps.com. And, if you'd like the content, I would love it if you would tell your friends about the podcast. That is the best way for us to grow. And we are growing slowly, but we're growing, and I appreciate that. Hey. This week's music again is going to be Kazuki Tokaji. I like the song. It's time we changed it, but I like the song, and, I haven't had time to find anything else. So any boosting or streaming of sats during that song will go straight to the artist. Thanks for being here. We hope this has been helpful. We sure would love to hear from you. Find all of our contact info at satoshis plebs dot com slash episode two one six. Stay humble. DCA those sats. Have a great weekend. We will talk to you soon.
Have a good week.
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is July the 2nd, and this is episode 216 of Satoshi's Plebs. Today is gonna be a little bit different. Kenshin is not here today. He had a work commitment that he just had to take care of. So I'm here all by myself. Today, we're gonna be talking about something a little bit different, something that's been kind of bugging me, to be honest. And I don't really know how to explain it right here in this intro. But, essentially, we'll be talking about Bitcoin as a store of value and a medium of exchange. And if you don't know what that means, then you certainly need to hang on.
Alright. So, yes, as I said, this is gonna be a little bit different. We are at block Height 903753 as we record. The price of Bitcoin in US dollars is $109,606. In Euros, it is 92,361. Alright. So, no real news for me this week. We're just gonna skip that segment. Work has got crazy level of crazy. Like, I need a break. We've got stuff that we have to have out very soon in the next few weeks. I sound I think I've been saying that for a while, but, yeah, in a couple of weeks. And when it gets done, I'm probably just gonna take, like, at least a few days off from work.
Normally, our next section is supporters. We actually don't have any boost this week. There were a couple of things I wanted to point out. We had a comment on our podcast post, I think, in Nostr from ama. And they said this, Bitcoin is at an all time high in USD terms, but far from in Euro terms because USD is depreciating in terms of the Euro. There isn't a discrepancy or anything. It's how currencies work. Look at the forex to understand that. I do understand that, and there is certainly truth to that. And, frankly, it may be depreciating faster than I understood.
It's down, like, 12% year to date or something like that. I did not realize it had been depreciating that fast. Of course, that's kind of one of the goals of the president. So whether he intentionally is getting that or is just kind of a natural thing, we are actually looking he is, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but we're looking at having the dollar be kind of less powerful, weaker, so to speak, to help bring in manufacturing and this kind of thing into The United States. That's not really what we're here to talk about tonight. But just as a side note, I know Kenshin has been saying something about that, and, this listener, appreciate that. They picked up on that.
So there we go. I am not someone who is just a cheerleader for my country. I do realize that, you know, the reality is that's what it is. I when I don't know. Maybe it is dropping, you know, a percent or two in the span of a week. I don't know. I don't follow it closely enough to know. But it's just whatever. So good to know. And I also wanted to mention one more thing. So appreciate that AMA. Bullish Bitcoin, which I think I've got some little software note about as well. He wrote some software, which is kinda cool. I will mention that in the software section, but he made a couple of clips of last week's episode, or the week before. I don't remember if it was 2015 or 2014, but regardless, I really appreciate that. That was really cool. Did that on Fountain. They show up there, and I'm pretty sure there's other list or whatever that they show up in. It gives us more exposure, and I appreciate that. He made some clips of when Kenshin and I were talking about our vibe coding journey. So thank you very much, Bullish Bitcoin. That is a great way to support the show.
So thank you. I don't have a way to directly support that. Fountain took that ability away a long time ago, actually, and I'm kinda disappointed about that. But I do appreciate it. And we see you on Noster. We see the support that you do there as well, and you are doing some interesting things over there. We've mentioned your shop from time to time, and now you're getting into coding. So very cool. Alright. So what is this week all about? The title of the episode is do you know more than Mises, and I hope I'm saying that right, and Rothbard.
The Mises that I'm referring to is Ludwig von Mises, and Rothbard is Murray in Rothbard. They're both well known in the Austrian economics circles, so to speak. Rothbard is more recent. I think he's actually still alive. I'm not a 100% certain about that, and I may be frankly wrong. But, he is certainly more modern than, Ludwig von Mises, but they are both solidly grounded in Austrian economics. Now for just a very brief aside, if you don't know what I mean by that, there are kind of, well, look. You can argue about this, and that's fine. The way I view it, there are two main, economic viewpoints of macroeconomics, kind of the world economics.
Keynesian economics from a guy named, Keynes, who, became very famous right before the Great Depression or during the Great Depression, really, and Austrian economics. And it was created I should know this. Carl Aye Aye. Carl Menger. So he, founded the Austrian School of Economics. He, established its core principles. He published a book in 1871 called the Principles of Economics, that established this school of thought. And, basically, if you kind of compare Austrian economics with Keynesian economics, they are diametrically opposed. Keynes had no issue with the government issuing debt.
Debt's really not a big deal for them. I don't know. It's just endless. Like, Fiat, what we would call Fiat these days, was a good thing. Alright? Austrian economics, on the other hand, believed in one of its primary principles would be the belief in a solid economic underpinning, which back then would have been based on gold. Gold may be in silver, as units of account, as ways to pay each other. Why? Because they were limited. You you you had a maybe not a fixed supply because we continue to mine gold and silver to this day, but you had a a supply that did grow very slowly, especially well, certainly back then.
I would assume that it grew even more slowly than it did now with modern technology. I think now it only gains about 2% a year, maybe even a little bit less in the total gold supply that is available. But the idea was we we operate with kind of this fixed supply of money. You know, we don't go out and do stupid things with that money. The government doesn't bail people out. I don't know if that's specifically in there, but, you know, it was really a much more conservative, view. And I would tell you that Carl Minger would be appalled, frankly, at what's going on in The United States and basically every country around the world with the printing of money. We just passed 37 trillion dollars here in The United States. Hoorah. We're number one. We lead the world in total debt, not in total percent of debt debt to GDP, which I think is Japan, if I'm not mistaken.
But we do have the most, the the biggest total. And I try not to be political in this show, but I will point out one thing. Trump ran on this platform, which I don't know if he ever directly came out and said it, but it would certainly be, you know, the smaller government. We need to cut the debt, this kind of thing. And yet literally this week, he has he has come out. And if you really wanna know, if you're really curious, I guess I can pull it out next week or whatever, but he has come out and said, you know, we're gonna print money. And he's doing it because they have to win the election.
That's why. Now I don't think he exactly said that. It was a quote. It was a tweet, or whatever they call it on truth social, and it got mirrored on Nostr. I actually kinda thought it was very interesting. Hang on just a second. Try and find it real quick. Well, shoot. Well, mister Trump, you need to get faster servers on your truth social. I think he owns that. Whatever. It doesn't matter. But basically, he said something to the effect, we're gonna pass this big beautiful bill and which is the big big bill. It's gigantic in congress right now.
And, I'm gonna sign it, and we're gonna print money. That's, almost what he said. He almost didn't even hide it really at all, and it's all about the midterm elections. And it's ridiculous, because what we're doing is is continuing to go down this Keynesian path. Alright. So what's Macintosh really upset about? Because that actually isn't it. I'm I mean, that's that is not shocking to me in the least. I mean, I don't know that I would have called it, but it doesn't shock me one bit that that's actually what's turning out. What the the orange party, what the red party is figuring out is that the only way that they're going to get out of the mess that we're in and kick the ball down the court to the next set of people is print more money.
So we'll have more debt, but everybody will look good and the assets like houses, stocks will go up because that's what happens when we print money. Really not what I'm upset about. I'm not upset. I just I noticed something, and I've noticed it in the last few weeks. This meme has been around for a while, but Michael Saylor came out, said something. And so because it's Michael Saylor, everybody's gotta repeat it. And I'm kinda tired of it. And I wanted to have a chat about it if that's okay with you, and, we'll discuss it because I think it's actually really important.
So Michael Saylor said, don't sell your Bitcoin. He said, don't sell your Bitcoin. He said, you should never sell your Bitcoin. And he said it in multiple ways, and he said it multiple times over the last few weeks. It's kind of his new thing, his new shtick. If you've ever seen Michael Saylor, and sometimes he can, he can put together a very good presentation, but he will just kinda get on one thing, and then he'll just kinda just say it over and over in modestly different ways maybe, but that's the reality of it. And this is his current little shtick. Don't sell your Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you that if first of all, let's do a little thought exercise. This is real easy, so hang on with me.
If we all didn't sell our Bitcoin, what would happen? Number would go up. Maybe maybe for a little while. Maybe for a while, but it would never replace Fiat. Are we in this to replace Fiat, or are we in this to make a couple of bucks? Because even though I do want Bitcoin to go up and because of its characteristics, I believe it will. I'm actually in this to replace fiat because you know what? I am tired of fiat ruining people's lives. Macintosh, what are you talking about? I believe that one of the biggest causes of inflation is simply money printing. I don't think we have any idea the amount of inflation that happens.
Well well, McIntosh, the the the CPI is only like 3%, 4%. That's pretty good, McIntosh. Well, first of all, the CPI is flawed. If you think the government is telling you the real numbers are on inflation, then I got some great property in the middle of Timbuktu that I need to sell you for top dollar because, buddy, you're gullible. Okay. Now second, let's just assume that that is true. Let's assume. Let's assume that that the CPI number, 4%, whatever it is, is actually accurate. Okay. Do you realize that in your lifetime, the value of your money will get cut in half? Do you mean that if I'm 30 and I set aside $10,000 that by the time that I retire, that that's only gonna be worth half as much?
Yes. It's not gonna be $5,000 It's going to only be able to purchase $5,000 in that previous time span. Like, if you would have, let's say that $10,000 hang on with me because this is maybe a little slippery. When I'm 30 years old, I take $10,000 and I could buy well, I could buy three ounces of gold. Let's just say I could buy three ounces of gold. I don't know what that is per ounce. It's roughly what it is right now. By the time that I'm 70, that $10,000 would only be able to buy an ounce and a half. And it's like that for basically everything. If you don't have your dollars invested in something that's actually going to appreciate even more than the interest, then then this inflation rate, then, you know, you're going to go backwards.
And I'm not okay with that because money should not lose value over time. Used to not. It used to be an ounce of gold would buy you a good suit. You know what? An ounce of gold will still buy you. And by a good suit, I don't mean the Sears suit. I mean a really nice suit, really. It still does. A hundred years ago, a good suit. A hundred years now a good suit. A hundred years ago, a $100 might no, dollars 20 would buy that suit. Now, what, dollars 3,200, dollars 3,300, whatever gold is. Do you see what I'm saying? A true monetary unit holds its value. It doesn't go down. It shouldn't.
So I'm mad because that's being robbed from from my generation, from your generation, really from from every generation since certainly since 1971. You could argue actually far further back than that. We've been robbed, but nobody does anything about it. And here's our chance to do something about it. And morons, excuse me, people who I don't agree with. Look, Michael Saylor, really smart guy, obviously got lots of money, blah blah blah, but he is wrong on this. And when somebody who has that much influence is out there saying, don't sell your Bitcoin, we need to have a talk about it.
Because if you don't if everybody doesn't sell you their Bitcoin, it's not money, ladies and gentlemen. It's something else. It's a speculative asset, I guess. And that's not what I got into this for. Again, I got into this to replace Fiat. Right? Are you with me so far? Because I'm gonna wrap this up really quick here. This is actually gonna be a short episode. I know that's shocking. But because Michael Saylor's out there saying it, now people are repeating it. And there have been other people over the years certainly, maybe not with as big a platform saying, don't sell your Bitcoin. Don't sell your Bitcoin. It doesn't matter what happens. Don't sell your Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, when you need to sell your Bitcoin, sell your Bitcoin.
Bitcoin should be a money. And I don't care about all of this other stuff that's going on in government, but you know what I do care about? Take the capital gains tax off Bitcoin. It's not it can't be a money. It can't really function as a money until that's done. Now supposedly with this big beautiful bill that is going through congress as I speak, there was supposed to be an amendment to at least what do they call it? A de minimis sale or something of like, if you sold $600 or less of Bitcoin, you weren't going to be charged cap gains tax. That's a start. But really, it should be the whole thing. It should not matter when you bought your Bitcoin for how much. It's just money.
And money can be a gold is a store of value. It can be both. Gold was a store of value when we were trading, dollars 20 gold pieces, one ounce, dollars 20, ladies and gentlemen. And that was not too long ago. Inflation did that, by the way, just to be clear. Oh, to finish the thought about the inflation, which I never did complete the circle. One of the reasons why inflation has not been so bad is because of the huge gains in technology that we have had since basically, since I was born. So for decades now, we've been making these monstrous leaps forward.
And just think about it. Just the simplest thing, your TV. Back in 1980, color TV cost 400 maybe $400 I don't know. It was probably more than that. 4 or $500. It was a tiny little thing. You you know, you're getting over the air broadcast. If you're lucky, you get kind of something there, whatever. I remember because that was the first time we bought a color TV. And now for $400 I can at least get a gigantic, I don't know, probably, bigger than 32 inches TV for whatever the next size is, 40, maybe 50 inches high definition, more color display, lighter weight.
I mean, just so on and so forth. So not only is it the same price, but that doesn't take into account the fact that money has depreciated. How many years out are we? Forty five years from 1980. So that $400 is actually worth it was a lot more in 1980. You see, it was like, now it would be, the equivalent. Gosh. Maybe not 10 to one. I'd have to look it up. But I bet it would be worth well over a thousand dollars. I'm sure it would be worth over a thousand dollars. Let's just say that. Okay. So the thousand dollar TV in today's term was a tiny little screen, not a very good quality signal, not a very high resolution, etcetera.
Now it's lighter, cheaper, way I already said weighs less, higher resolution, and so on. It's only because of the advances that we've made electronics and computers, technology, and industry in general that inflation hasn't eaten us alive. They hide under these advances. That's why, in theory, our inflation rate has only been three it's like right at 3% historically since, going back a good bit. I don't know. It might even not be all the way back to, like, 1913 or something. But we've spent decades going through this technological revolution, certainly since the fifties, and I think you could argue it's been going back longer than that.
I believe Bitcoin was built on the foundations of Austrian economics. Okay? I believe that most Bitcoiners at least call themselves Austrian economics. They'll say, oh, yes. Things like the 21,000,000 Bitcoin, that's a Austrian economics principle. Certainly, we limit the supply of money. We don't print money, so to speak, and so on and so forth. But then when somebody says, hold your Bitcoin, I go back to the giants of Austrian economics, and I read things like Ludwig von Mises, who he was a disciple of Karl Menninger, if I'm remembering correctly. The functions of money as a transmitter of value through time and space may also be directly traced to its function as a medium of exchange. So in other words, if I'm going to use money to transmit my value through time and space, so I'm going to give my Bitcoin to my children if I so choose, and they're going to enjoy the benefits of that, it can be traced back to its function as a medium of exchange. In other words, if it's not used as a medium of exchange, ultimately, that transmission of value fails.
Murray Vaughn Murray n Rothbard. Because gold is a general medium, it is the most marketable. It can be stored to serve as a medium in the future as well in the present, and all prices are expressed in these terms. Because gold is a commodity medium for all exchanges, it can serve as a unit of account for present and expected future prices. It is important to realize that money cannot be an abstract unit of account or claim except insofar as it serves as a medium of exchange. Both of these gentlemen think it's really important that money serve as a medium of exchange.
Now you may not have understood every word I said. I'll be honest. I probably didn't as well, and I've read a lot of these books. Some of them can be quite difficult, but I think the general idea is very clear. In order to operate as money, it has to have a function as a medium of exchange. In other words, money cannot just be a store of value. So, again, I go back to the question, are we creating money, or are we creating this number go up asset? Because we need to decide. And I will look Michael Saylor, who has 1,000,000,000 times more money than I do and say, Michael Saylor, you are flat wrong and you do not understand money.
Because of this, We're either Austrian or we're Keynesian. You cannot be both. And I am not a Keynesian, ladies and gentlemen. If you ever thought that I was, you are mistaken. The government has no role in creating money out of thin air. The government has no role in arbitrarily saying this is money and that is not. But, Macintosh, you do tell people to say Bitcoin. Well, of course, I do because it is a storage of value. It is a transmitter of value through time and space. I believe that. But not only is it that it is a medium of exchange in places like Bitcoin Beach down in El Salvador, in, Bitcoin Jungle down in Costa Rica, at various places in various parts of Africa, and I use Bitcoin as money as frequently as I can despite the difficulties in doing so because I believe that that's what Bitcoin is for.
And you know what? I'm smart enough that if I spend a $100 value worth of Bitcoin, I can turn around and buy a $100 worth of value of Bitcoin with my fiat that will be depreciating anyways. So stop telling people not to sell their Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, if you had 10 Bitcoin and you had debt on your house, I would tell you to sell some Bitcoin and get the debt off your house. I don't think you should be in that kind of debt with that kind of Bitcoin. Now you do you, boo. Okay. Just you do you. I'm just saying, I think that'd be a good idea. I don't know what else to say, so I'm just gonna kinda wrap it up there. But when you hear these people say this stuff, and if you're involved in this medium, if you're involved in Bitcoin enough, you will hear this. Please push back.
If you don't, well, if you believe what I just said. I guess if you don't, then don't say anything. But this stuff is so important because if it's not a medium of exchange, it will eventually not serve the purpose that it was designed for. And you cannot tell me that it was not designed to replace dollars, fiat currency, currency that is backed by nothing except excessive power. Okay. That's it. Question of the week. Do you use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange in any form? Please boost in and let us know. I would love to hear from you. I'm sure this would have been nicer if Kenjin was here. I do miss him.
I think this is the first time we've recorded with just one of us. It won't be the last. Life is life, and there are times when we just have to be away. And I I'm actually gonna become more intentional about that. But he probably would have been a little bit softer about this. He already has an idea for next week's, which is kind of a follow on about this. We'll see. I don't wanna overwhelm you all with economics talk, but frankly, we haven't had any a while, and I think this stuff is really important. I do. You have to understand. By the way, if you have no grounding in this at all, I would start with a book called The Bitcoin Standard. If you get through that and you want more, The Principles of Economics, I believe, both by Saifedean Amuse, great books.
All of the Austrian economics type books are out there and available. A lot of them are public domain because they're so old, but I will tell you they are not easy to read as someone who has read them. But we have choices, and these choices will ultimately decide the fates of our country. If you wanna know what happens to a country that's on a fiat standard until the end, go read oh, what was the name of that book? When Money Dies, The Nightmare of the Weimar Hyperinflation by Adam Ferguson. That is the one that I have read. There's another one apparently called The Downfall of Money, Germany's hyperinflation and the destruction of the middle class, which was talked about in Adam's book. I read Adam's book.
Maybe I should read this other one. But one of the things that we are seeing here in The United States is the destruction of the middle class, and I don't think it's just limited to us here. Go read those books. It's they're shocking. Shocking. I'm telling you. And, you know, we just keep marching down this path. I've given up trying to predict when it's gonna happen. I do not know, but I do know that, you know, we cannot sustain continued debt levels like we've got. Alright. Hey. That was kind of a bummer. Let's talk about some nice things, news and notes. Don't really have any news and notes. I do have a software update. I wanted to mention this I've already said.
And because it was one of our listeners wrote oh, here's a really cool tool. I posted this, on Noster, the FrostSnap, which looks like a new device that you can do, a multisig setup Really, really simply, it looks like. And SeedSigner had a new release, zero dot eight six. And they now have support for large displays, which I am super excited about because that's one of the biggest drawbacks I have with SeedSiner. It has a very small display and someone who has, issues with their eyes. It's hard for me to read, frankly. So I'm looking forward to that. I will probably end up buying a new one maybe next year.
Oh, man. Hey, guys. Do me a favor. Kenshin is a big f one fan, and I don't know if he didn't see this. He didn't respond. There was a movie called f one about f one racing that just came out. Boost in and say, hey, Kenshin. Have you seen the movie yet on f one racing? Or it literally is actually called f one. Do that. That's something else you can boost about. I can't find this. What, bullish Bitcoin. I I don't wanna get this wrong. I know I retweeted it. What? Not retweeted. Whatever. Whatever you call it, Anoster. And I I don't see it. Oh, I did actually retweet a thing, and pointed at Kenshin about the Bitcoin, euro dollar, all that showing how the dollar was getting weaker.
I'm not gonna argue about that. I'm I agree. Maybe I just didn't realize it was happening so fast. Man, I don't see it. Long it was long oh, man. Bullish Bitcoin. I don't wanna get this wrong. I'm just gonna find it. Hang on. Oh, here it is right here. It's the bullish bitcoin. I apologize. Bitcoiner. I'm sorry. Man, I butchered that. I apologize. The bullish bitcoiner. And, you should follow him on Noster, but he has a new program. I guess, as far as I can tell, he wrote this, which is cool. Yeah. And absolutely very cool called long form.
Long form content is such a staple in communication. One could even say it's an art form. I've used a number of long form clients, but none of them made me happy. So I set out to create the one I'd like to see in the world, enter long form. A clean minimal client focused on everything long form. And then so there's a new version of this out. You can find it, on Noster. You should follow him and, Groovy. I don't write a lot of long form these days. Bullish. I I actually used to write more like that, and I would kinda like to get back into the swing of things. But to be honest, I don't have time, and I'm not gonna prioritize it. So there's that.
There it just is. But if you do any kind of writing, you should check that out. I can 100% support that. Very, very cool. Alright. I did not look up last year's price. Let's just assume it was somewhere around 62,000, and we're up a lot. I'm sorry, guys. It's just been a crazy week. I am not exaggerating. One sat per vbyte, mempool. We had a huge difficulty drop, 7.48%, just a few days ago, and it was because of that heat wave. No. We did not knock out Iran's Bitcoin miners. Hey. Satoshi Spebs is value for value podcast supporting podcasting two point o. No ads. No sponsorships. Just honest Bitcoin content even when it makes us uncomfortable.
I deliberately avoid sponsors because even if I love a company, taking their money would influence my opinion. What if something goes wrong with that company, I would hesitate to warn you. Instead, I ask simply, are you getting value from the show? Support it through time, talent, or treasure. We have seen all three of these. We have people out there boosting. We have people who are supporting the show, making clips. Thank you again, the Bullish Bitcoiner, things like that. Awesome, awesome stuff. You can simply grab a podcasting two point o app and stream sats or boost with messages, even just a 100 sats saying something like great show or, you know, you suck.
I'll read it either way. So, you can check out a list of those apps at podcastapps.com. And, if you'd like the content, I would love it if you would tell your friends about the podcast. That is the best way for us to grow. And we are growing slowly, but we're growing, and I appreciate that. Hey. This week's music again is going to be Kazuki Tokaji. I like the song. It's time we changed it, but I like the song, and, I haven't had time to find anything else. So any boosting or streaming of sats during that song will go straight to the artist. Thanks for being here. We hope this has been helpful. We sure would love to hear from you. Find all of our contact info at satoshis plebs dot com slash episode two one six. Stay humble. DCA those sats. Have a great weekend. We will talk to you soon.
Have a good week.
