McIntosh and Kenshin tackle 12 listener questions covering a wide range of Bitcoin and Nostr topics.
Key Topics Discussed:
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
June 18th, 2025: 107,700 USD | 92,300 EUR
Block Height at Time of Recording: 902,692
Episode Page
https://satoshis-plebs.com/episode-214
Music Credits
Kazuki Tokaji
Live For Tomorrow
Key Topics Discussed:
- Security practices for Bitcoin custody and inheritance planning
- Corporate Bitcoin adoption vs. pleb ownership concerns
- Future of running Bitcoin nodes on mobile devices
- Value-for-value podcast model evolution
- Post-state society possibilities with Bitcoin and Nostr
- Hyper-bitcoinization timeline predictions
- AI coding journeys and dream projects
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
June 18th, 2025: 107,700 USD | 92,300 EUR
Block Height at Time of Recording: 902,692
Episode Page
https://satoshis-plebs.com/episode-214
Music Credits
Kazuki Tokaji
Live For Tomorrow
Website
https://satoshis-plebs.com
Podcasting 2.0 Apps available at http://podcastapps.com and Value4Value information page available here: https://value4value.info
McIntosh can be reached by email at [email protected] and on Twitter at @McIntoshFinTech. His mastodon handle is @[email protected] and his Nostr. Kenshin can be reached on Twitter at @kenshin_ninja or on Nostr. Kenshin’s email is [email protected]. You can also follow the Satoshi’s Plebs podcast account on Nostr. We are looking forward to hearing from you!
We are looking forward to hearing from you!
[00:00:02]
McIntosh:
What is up, PlebNation? Today is June, and this is episode 215 of Satoshi's Plebs. We've got a packed listener q and a episode today, questions about everything from security practices and corporate adoption to the future of Nostr and Bitcoin's transaction patterns.
[00:00:21] Kenshin:
That's right. So our listeners brought some serious questions this week on Nostr. We're talking custody strategies, the philosophical implications of post state societies running Bitcoin node on mobiles, and whether the plebs get left behind as corporations stack more sets.
[00:00:41] McIntosh:
Plus some deeper dives into value for value models, what happens if Nostra disappears, and what future historians will say about Bitcoin's real tipping point. But before all that, let's get our house in order. So how is the livestream doing? We've got some people out there on zap.stream. You guys, there's a chat function there. You should give us a shout out and let us know how things are, maybe where you're from, if you're comfortable with that. Yeah.
[00:01:13] Kenshin:
And who you are? Are you from Nostr? Let's see. Anyone of you who gave us questions? Yeah. That would be cool.
[00:01:21] McIntosh:
That would be cool. Alright. As we record, we are at a block height of 902,692. Yeah. And that brings up the quest oh, sorry, Kenshin. Yeah. We'll keep climbing. We it's funny how that works. About every ten minutes, roughly. Uh-huh. And that brings up a question, Kenshin. What is going on with you? Those two things are directly related.
[00:01:49] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. I, it's good. Good. I don't know. It's been, like, a week and a half so far. We're just half week in, but it feels like double that or triple that so far. It's my my days are dominated by fiat stress and claude coding in the evenings.
[00:02:12] McIntosh:
Okay. And when do you start your summer vacation that we talked about last week?
[00:02:18] Kenshin:
I start to we we we measure in weeks here in Sweden. So we say week 29, I start my vacation. Okay. Week 29 to 32. So four weeks. Four more weeks from now? No. Yeah. In two weeks, I start vacations and then four week vacations. I understand. Back to the saddle.
[00:02:41] McIntosh:
Very cool. So you'll get a break then a little bit.
[00:02:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. But I will be working on stuff on Right. Mine and my wife's projects, which should be going live hopefully by the time I start vacations. So then we use the vacations to to really push it through
[00:02:59] McIntosh:
and get some things.
[00:03:01] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:02] McIntosh:
It's very exciting. Alright. Very cool.
[00:03:05] Kenshin:
How about you?
[00:03:06] McIntosh:
I've been I I made some progress with work. I survived the week of being on call, and, you know, I don't know. Got some things done. We're still busy, but maybe there's a light and maybe it's not a train. So we'll see. But I also worked on our lightning node last when was it? It wasn't last night. Two nights ago, I migrated the node from one server to our new server, and that was successful except I forgot one parameter. So even though the node was online and everything was humming away, it streaming or boosting was not working. The the Satoshis were not getting to us. It turns out I needed to add a parameter, which was on the old server. It was right there. I just simply missed it. And it was, you know, 04:00 in the morning when I stopped, so give me a little bit of grace, please.
But once I added that and restarted the node, everything was up and running. So we are back in business. As far as I can see, everything is exactly the same. So now we're gonna work on that a little bit, get it some more channels set up, I'm hoping, and, you know, improve that a bit. I also worked on Helipad, which is a little program that one of the people in the podcasting two point o community built to be able to see boost and streams coming in, as they occur. We had it on the old setup. I have not been able to get it to work yet, but I I should be able to on the new setup. So that way, we can basically open up a web browser and read off our boost like the ones that we're about to read.
[00:04:58] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's cool. Yeah.
[00:05:00] McIntosh:
Do you wanna go ahead and do these?
[00:05:03] Kenshin:
Yeah. We have, send it Mike from episode 214, last episode. So his first, boost for 1,069 SATs was good this good discussion. I think a good place to look for analogous data to Bitcoin fees is wire transfers. Fedwire in The US sends around 16,000,000 transfers a month Mhmm. At $20 each. That's $320,000,000 available for fees, which is about $171,000 dollars per block. That's just Fedwire in The US. Right. That's some good analogy and math there. Yeah.
[00:05:51] McIntosh:
One of the things I really like about Synod Mike is he breaks things down like this in ways that are practical, and he puts numbers to it, and it makes sense. And he's right. I mean, that's the type of thing that I expect to see ultimately on the Bitcoin main net that will be powering those transactions that we were or powering that network that we were talking about last week. So that was a a great boost. Thank you. Yeah. And we have this,
[00:06:21] Kenshin:
similar question that we will answer further down. Well, let's not do that now. Not now. But, yeah, we can You're right. Continue that discussion there. You're right. And I
[00:06:32] McIntosh:
I think I just figured out what he meant in this second one. So he sent a second boost, 690 sets. He said rock and roll. My face melted at 1.6 x speed. So a couple of things. If you were talking about our regular talk, that probably speeds me up to about normal speed. So that's probably pretty good. But I think he was talking about the music that I had at the end, and I I butcher that poor man's name every week. I'm gonna try one more time. Where is it? It's I'm drawing a complete blank. I don't have it in front. There it is. Kazuki Tokaji.
It's a great song if you haven't heard it. It's at the it'll be at the end of the episode. This will be the last week that I use that. I I normally would have switched it out this week, but I have not had time to find a new, song yet. So, we'll have that one more time. Slow it down. The guy plays fast enough as it is, so you don't need to speed that up. Alright. But thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
[00:07:40] Kenshin:
And I we we do sincerely appreciate your support. Yeah. Now now I'm curious. I need to try that too.
[00:07:47] McIntosh:
You you and music. I there is one thing, ladies and gentlemen, that Kenshin and I are completely different in. He just music is just like it it for me, I love music. It's not the same for him him. No. It goes inside one ear, comes out the other ear. Exactly. Straight through. No. Nothing gets left inside. Alright. Anyways, so we're gonna go ahead and dive on into these questions. We have got how many did we end up with? Was it 11? Yeah. We've got 11 questions. 12. We've got the best. Oh, you do? Okay. Right. 12 questions, from the audience. I appreciate this. You guys to be honest, Kenshin and I were talking, and and our last questions episode about three months ago, I really thought the questions were really good, but y'all have outdone yourself this time. So they were, I thought, overall better.
And so let's just get right on into it so we don't make this episode too long, Kenshin. What is number one?
[00:08:54] Kenshin:
Number one is from Liberat, Libertas
[00:09:01] McIntosh:
BR. Sorry. That sounds good.
[00:09:03] Kenshin:
Libertas BR. And he said and he has he has sent us a question before. Okay. The previous one. Yeah. I remember him. Mhmm. His question is, what did you learn in this journey spreading the world by podcast? Receiving any feedback each episode? He's asking. Yeah.
[00:09:22] McIntosh:
You want me to go first or you wanna go? Yeah. I don't know what to say. I'll go first. I've learned I can be very dogmatic. And what I think, I can put my ideas out there, but ultimately, I have learned to kind of soften things. And you know what? Other people can have different ideas and different opinions, and that's okay because they're people just like I am, and they're gonna that that's their journey. And if they think differently, then that's okay. I I great example. Here really quickly. I would never buy MicroStrategy stock or strategy is now the company name.
Michael Saylor's company, or a Bitcoin ETF fund. But there are people who they are perfectly comfortable with that. Alright. And that's okay. I'm not gonna come on here and yell at you and say, you should not do that. I'm gonna say I wouldn't do that. I'm gonna say, why? But in the end, it's your choice.
[00:10:28] Kenshin:
Mhmm. I I I can just add that either I'm right or you're wrong. So I agree with you.
[00:10:36] McIntosh:
Wait. What? Wait. What? Doesn't that mean the same thing? Well, defense. Either I'm right or you're wrong. Wait. Okay. Well, while we're waiting for Macintosh to figure that out, we should probably go on to the next question. Alright. The bullish Bitcoiner, has said said this. Congratulations on 215 plebs, with a party emoji. Here's my question for both of you. How are your vibe coding journeys going, and do you have a dream project that you hope to build in the future?
[00:11:16] Kenshin:
Wow. Sir? Great question. Very relevant question. Mhmm. Yes. I am currently vibe coding, as you say. Mhmm. I actually upgraded my Claude subscription to Max. So from the $20 a month to the $200 a month? I would man. Okay. Yeah. I I couldn't resist because I was using it so much and I was hitting that limit. I Yeah. I was hitting that limit every two and a half hours and then I had to wait another two and a half hours.
[00:11:52] McIntosh:
That's funny. I do the same thing. Yeah? Yep.
[00:11:56] Kenshin:
It's it's worth it. And at least for for me for now, for this month, that I'm fully developing, this app with my wife. And some days are so frustrating. I had this, experience on Sunday that Claude is literally like a human on a Sunday that didn't want to work. He was reverting code and saying, okay, it's done. I'm like, but you just reverted back. I just want to make this new feature. And he's like, okay. I will try again. It happens Yeah. So many times. Yeah. And it was getting very tiresome. But, we pushed through eventually. Mhmm. But, yeah, it's going good. I, developing this, app with my wife that we had this idea since 2000 I don't know, 1718 maybe.
For sure, 02/2018. We we even started back then doing a business plan and everything. Okay. And What? Finally this year on in May, sometime in May, I went to my wife and I said, you know what? We can actually do this now with AI. And that was such a mind blowing moment for for both of us. And especially for me because I was struggling for years to imagine how I can do it and with WordPress and a bunch of plugins, and it was impossible to to put together. And finally, whatever you imagine now, it feels possible. So it's it's amazing.
[00:13:29] McIntosh:
I've watched you in this journey, and, it's impressive. And you guys are are it sounds to me like you're accomplishing great things. I'm looking forward to to seeing that app when you go live. Yeah. For myself, I've been using ChatGPT and now Claude for a couple of years, really, since they kind of announced ChatGPT and it kind of came out of beta or whatever. I use it in my job quite a bit. I almost don't even go to Google and do a search anymore. I just ask Claude. Or but I'm constantly, like, writing little scripts for various things, which would take me far, far longer if I were doing it by hand.
Claude is particularly adept at Python, so which is what we script him. Now in terms of what did you say? Like a project, a dream project? I think Kenshin's known me long enough to know this. I have ideas, like, every thirty seconds. Is that a true story? Yeah. You have your little notebook of ideas. Right? Yeah. Note them down. Look. I get them so fast. I just forget them, you know, and I move on to no. That's not true. But I do. I have a lot of ideas, but to be honest, I have actually put thought into this. What can I take, Claude or really the entire kind of AI toolkit and build?
And I would want it to be some kind of direct Bitcoin based thing as just simply as a way to kind of give back to the community. And if I can support myself, make money off of that as well, that would be terrific. I don't have anything right now, but I'm sure probably before the end of the year, I'll figure something out. So it has definitely, definitely made me more productive. And if you do software engineering of any kind, if you write code in your job and you're not using AI, you are hurting yourself. You need to go ahead and get involved even if you're only using if you're just using the free version. You don't have to do what what Kenshin and I are doing where we, you know, we are spending money. I don't spend I spend $20 a month on my version of Claude, which for now is okay. It's a pretty big jump between 20 and a $100.
I I actually looked at that the other night because I have run into that problem. But if I had a project that I were coding like you and a specific goal, I'd probably be doing the same thing. So
[00:16:27] Kenshin:
Yeah. I will not be paying for much longer. I don't think maybe another month until it's out and then the the, the smaller updates, it's enough with the main with the main claw that's 20. But but another example I thought now, I took my son next to me and I told him, think of any game and tell me what it is and we will build it instantly in front of yours in front of you on the screen. Right. And he's five and he came up with a game and within an hour we had a game on the screen and he was playing.
[00:17:02] McIntosh:
And it was his idea, 100%. So I thought that was really cool. Okay. Very cool. Yeah. It's when it works, it's a beautiful thing. It can be very frustrating at times. But, alright.
[00:17:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. Next one from Iyan Ficke. Question. Holding onto your coins, especially as newbie, is usually a risky affair. There are lots of ways to lose all your coins. Be it hardware malfunctions, lost or forgotten keys or passwords, or even malware and hacks. My question is, what optimal measures do you have for keeping your stack Considering some of these cases may be accidental, and if you use your stack consist consistently Mhmm. How do you use it safely? Right. And how do you make sure your dependents, can access it, in case of any emergencies? Yeah. Okay. A lot of questions. Good questions there.
Very important questions. I can start if you want. Sure. I can say, yes. It's very stressful in the beginning Mhmm. When you get started with a new software or hardware, any of them. But I would say you start with a small amount, get familiar with the hardware or the software, and then you take precautions. The biggest one is to store your seed phrase safely in a couple of spots. Mhmm. So if one is damaged or lost, then you have a backup. And ideally, you stamp that seed phrase in some sort of metal, and there are many, many ways to do it. So I would say that's then the peace of mind because if the hardware wallet malfunctions or whatever, it doesn't matter. You buy a new one and you restore from your seed phrase. So and the software the same.
Then the the the question of of, malware and hacks. I don't consider that an issue because if you do it properly, you do it with a offline Right. Air gapped device. Right. Or even an air gapped, PC with a software on it. So you can still be software based if you don't want to buy a hardware wallet. So as long as it's air gaps, you don't need to worry about all those issues. And, how do you consistently use the stack? I I would say I don't. What I consistently might be doing is send to my cold wallet stack, to my offline stack. Mhmm. Send to it, but not spend from it. So what I usually spend is lightning when I need to. I just bought another month for a Mullvad VPN.
Okay. I paid with my Albi hub. Right. So, there's no risk there. And then lastly, how do you my family access it. I I I have taught my wife how to access everything. And, yeah, worst case scenario, the easiest one is, again, to restore from a seed phrase. And you can restore in in a software wallet if she forgets how to use the hardware. So it's yeah.
[00:20:43] McIntosh:
I think it's fine for now. Let me add a couple of of real small things here real quick. I do actually spend consistently every month, from my mining wallet. I have to pay for my hosting, and my host takes Bitcoin, of course. So I get to exercise that. And I use a a Sparrow wallet on my laptop, and then I use seed signer hardware device in order to sign it. So that device is air gapped like you were talking about. And, you know, it is nontrivial. If you're worried about losing your funds, I certainly would not put a large amount on there to start with. And you said the same thing or something similar.
You know, just start small. If you have somebody that you trust that knows Bitcoin that can mentor you, that is ideal. Otherwise, you know, this might not be this might not work for everyone or might not. They might not like me saying this, but if you're buying Bitcoin on a regular basis on a place like Coinbase and you have a decent amount on there, don't just move it all off into your hardware wallet if you're not used to that. Move a little bit of it. Get used to it. Find ways of actually using it to spend or to, you know, to handle, to use.
And then as you're more comfortable with it, move that money off the exchange and onto your setup. Does that make sense? And everybody may not agree with that. This kinda goes back to one of those other questions, and that's fine. You do you, boo. But, you know, I I just you need to be comfortable with it. And to do that, it takes repetition.
[00:22:50] Kenshin:
Yeah. And we had some episodes, right, talking more about wallets and Mhmm. Hardware and software wallets, etcetera. If you go to satoshis-blebs.com/episodes,
[00:23:01] McIntosh:
there's a, like, a list. If you look through that list, there are several that talk about wallets and that kind of thing, so I'd take a look at those. Alright. I'm gonna get a fun one here. Hines sent in a message. Could Bitcoin and Oster together form the foundation of a post state society? I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you no. I I don't I mean, just my opinion. Again, this is something that people will probably disagree with, at least some of us. I don't think that that's ever going to be achieved, to be honest. I don't see that happening.
I understand the concepts. I understand why. I'm telling you I would like it, but I just don't think it's gonna happen. Will Bitcoin help in some ways? Will Nostr help in some ways in creating a better society? I certainly think so. I think Bitcoin has the possibility of making radical changes long term in how governments spend money and how people save money and and how people interact with each other. And maybe one day, there will be a kind of a post fiat world. I don't you know, I at least believe that that's possible. Nostr certainly is a a much better alternative to Twitter, but I just don't see everybody moving over to Nostr wholesale. I just that's just not how I think the real world works, but I'm glad that we have it. And we can kinda be over here building our own stuff and even showing it to people and saying, hey. This is what we're doing. We can build better stuff than than what's out there.
So, yeah, hope that helps. And I maybe that's disappointing, but that's just that's just my thoughts on it, frankly. Unfortunately, I agree. So it's sad, but it's true. I just I don't see any way around it.
[00:25:12] Kenshin:
I I thought you would say something different, and I would disagree with you. But, unfortunately, I agree. What did you think I was gonna say? I don't know. I thought you would be more
[00:25:22] McIntosh:
optimistic. More optimistic? Yeah. Yeah. I you know, I will say this. Bitcoin specifically gives you the opportunity to have your family save their wealth. And if your personal situation, regardless of where that may be, and I am not picking on any one nation state at all, if you decide this isn't for you, you can get up and leave and you can take it with you. And you don't have to worry about your money being in the bank and all that kind of stuff. Now you may have difficulties with passports and getting into other that's a different issue. But you could take your money with you with 12 words that you put in your head.
[00:26:08] Kenshin:
Right. Next one, from Milan Polja. Congrats on 02/2015. Do you think that in the future, it will be possible to run a full node on a phone? And will it go so far that you will be able to open lightning channels on a phone? Thanks.
[00:26:27] McIntosh:
I I would It's Sorry. Let me I I was wrong. I said earlier this was a Bitcoin note. I do think they made a lightning note.
[00:26:36] Kenshin:
Yeah. So sorry. But it it still says full note. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be But I would say but I would say that's already happening.
[00:26:47] McIntosh:
Zeus. For lightning. Yes. Not for for lightning. For a Bitcoin node. And I don't think you can run a full Bitcoin node probably ever on a phone. Too much disk space.
[00:26:59] Kenshin:
Too much. Yeah. But you can run a pruned node. But that's not a full node.
[00:27:04] McIntosh:
It's not a full node. A full node does mean all the transactions. Now with I think I talked about last week or the week before with z k roll ups, there is a possibility that at some point, you can basically start your Bitcoin node anywhere and have a mathematically proven point saying everything prior to this is correct. And you don't have to keep all that data, which would basically make it so you could make an instantaneous node. But that's not a full node.
[00:27:36] Kenshin:
Yeah. But I'm pretty sure, like, four or five years ago, someone has already done it when the when when the blockchain was less than 500. Right. Like, less than half a terabyte, I I pretty sure I've seen it Right. Online. And So it's not technically, it's very possible
[00:27:56] McIntosh:
for for a long time. But yeah. So I just added another 100 gigs to our hard drive on our node because we ran out of disk space. So we're now at, 900 gigs on that partition, which is only the Bitcoin node and lightning. So I don't know. We're at Yeah. We're adding data at a at a
[00:28:18] Kenshin:
pretty Yeah. My right. My notes are two terabytes. Mhmm. Because, yeah, one is not enough anymore. I don't know.
[00:28:25] McIntosh:
Whatever. I don't know.
[00:28:28] Kenshin:
No. But you don't need to, actually, I would say. And lightning lightning full lightning nose, you can already have with, something like Zeus wallet.
[00:28:37] McIntosh:
Which is cool. Very cool. Alright. Dune Mesias. I'm sorry. Can you Messiah. Messiah? Value for value was never just about money. It was about connection, feedback, and reciprocity. You guys are trying to trick me up. Reciprocity. How did you see the practice of v four v evolving? Are we still following the Adam Curry playbook? The Adam Curry playbook or writing a new one here. So very briefly, Adam Curry is the co creator of podcasting. He was also one of the very early MTV DJs, but, so he is a big proponent of value for value. He and a guy named John Dvorak have done a value for value podcast for well over a decade.
And I would say that what you said, connection feedback and reciprocity, in addition to money, is exactly what value for value is all about. And I don't really see it evolving. Yes. We're adding on the digital money aspect because, like, thirteen years ago or how I don't know how long it's been, but however long it was that they started no agenda, It was checks. Like, literally, people would just send them checks. And now it's, PayPal, and now they've actually started taking streaming sets and whatever. Yeah. Okay. That's just an evolution of the money. It's not a change in value for value.
Now, I'll say this value for value is difficult. We've been doing this show for a long time, and, we have faithful listeners. We have faithful supporters. But it's and I love all of our listeners, but, frankly, the support, if I'm being blunt, is not a whole lot. So I don't know.
[00:30:44] Kenshin:
It's a few very few podcasts that this model really, really works and works very good. But I would also say,
[00:30:52] McIntosh:
in general, the regular model doesn't work for very small podcast either because you have to have thousands of downloads a month. And I do mean thousands, like 10,000 a month to get one little ad, which doesn't really make you a whole lot. So it's just a hard thing. It just is. But yeah. Okay. Thanks for the question, though. That was, that was a great question.
[00:31:22] Kenshin:
Yeah. Then we have Maya. If Nostra disappears tomorrow, what lesson do we walk away with, and what do we rebuild first?
[00:31:32] McIntosh:
Great question.
[00:31:34] Kenshin:
Great question. Yeah. So if it is I mean yeah. Okay. That's a very, hypothetical because no matter what, it cannot disappear because it's it's not a single server. Right? It is decentralized. So it will keep going even with a small smaller crowd. But hypothetically, if it disappears and it's completely obsolete Yeah. Maybe that we do need a centralized authority to market it. I don't know. Would that be a lesson? That would be a bad lesson, but I guess that would be the lesson. And what to rebuild first? I mean, we do really need to have some sort of decentralized system to communicate and share ideas and thoughts because, yeah, all those centralized places, Facebook, Twitter, what name it, you always get censorship one way or another. And, so I would say we would still need this type of technology to be decentralized.
And of course, we we can build, more filters in some way that are useful and, practical. Mhmm. Because, of course, you don't want to see everyone's opinion. You still want to curate what you you want to see. Right? So I don't know if if Nostra, is for me, it's good. I mean, I follow who I follow. I don't get much random stuff, I would say. So I don't know. Some people might get bothered, but I I am okay with it, honestly.
[00:33:23] McIntosh:
Okay. I wanna say this. Sorry. I got I got distracted. There is something I would like to say. Maybe it's just the nature of decentralized open source work, but we were actually discussing this very issue earlier today. I'd gotten a DM from someone, a a mail message or whatever. And the reality is that some clients that work, some clients that doesn't, Because I think there's different protocols that people have tried to implement that have different features and whatever. And maybe in the long term, that's good. You get the best.
But the reality is in the short term, it's just frustrating. I don't know. I don't know if there's a way to learn from what we've done in Nostra and build something better if that were to actually happen, or if this is just the nature of open source development where people build something that scratches their itch as I would say. So
[00:34:27] Kenshin:
I don't know. And I I remember a couple of stuff now, and let's think that Nostr is a protocol. It's not an app.
[00:34:37] McIntosh:
Yes. Right?
[00:34:38] Kenshin:
So you have primal. You have amethyst. You have oh, it's so many. Anyway, so Nostr as a protocol, it is what it is. And then who builds on top of it and what they build if it fails or not. That's another question. So I would say, there we learn the most lessons about UX and what features and how it syncs and, you know, what it offers. Because I I jump around between Primal and Amethyst because they have their pros and cons, both of them. So I think those are possible to fail and we learn the biggest lessons there. And as a protocol, yeah, they still build on top of it and improve it. But, yeah, but there's a distinction there that we need to remember.
[00:35:31] McIntosh:
Okay. Alright. I yeah. We could spend a we could really honestly spend an entire episode talking about that. We can't, but we could. Yeah. I don't know. It is not without its flaws, but honestly, there are some really, really interesting things going on in the Nostra ecosystem. Who did the last one? I think you did. So Sherry wrote in and said this. What do you think future historians will say was the real tipping point for Bitcoin adoption? The tech, the memes, or the broken fiat system. What do you say, Kinshan?
[00:36:14] Kenshin:
I mean, I I would like to think that is the broken fiat system.
[00:36:20] McIntosh:
You and me both would like to think that. Yes.
[00:36:23] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's what I have learned already, and and that's what I'm taking in the future with me. The tech is a cool tech. I mean, but it's nothing, I would say, it's nothing unique in a sense that all the tech comprising Bitcoin existed for many years. It's just that it's the collection of the tech into one product and and, you know, how they interact that made Bitcoin successful and unique. So in in that sense, I mean, we can't be talking about e cash or proof of work, you know, but those are technologies that were developed bef before Bitcoin and blockchain and all this. But I would like to think it's a broken fiat system, not the memes.
[00:37:15] McIntosh:
It's not the memes. Can we just say that? I don't I don't think so. I really don't think that something this important is determined by who who makes the best memes. I don't think it's tech other than just the combination kind of like you alluded to. I mean, Bitcoin puts together proof of work. It puts together the immutability of the blockchain, all of this kind of, you know, the other things that it combines, a fixed supply, etcetera. I think the combination of that is why it has survived versus the millions now of other blockchains.
I think ultimately, it will succeed because of the broken fiat system, because it is the best replacement. It's kinda funny. I read this a little bit differently originally, and it's I think we answered what Sherry really intended, but I was kinda thinking along in the terms of since day one, what are the tipping points of Bitcoin adoption is kinda what I was thinking. And the first one I would actually say was the famous pizza, the first real commercial transaction of Bitcoin. We laugh about it. Our people do. I do not. You know, the the guy spent 10,000 Bitcoin on a couple of pizza, but that was a tipping point. That was somebody using Bitcoin for a real thing.
I also think another tipping point would be the first nation state to start using Bitcoin. And if I'm not mistaken, it was not El Salvador. They were the first one to make it legal tender, but Bhutan was already mining Bitcoin before them.
[00:39:03] Kenshin:
That that's a good catch. I I I didn't focus on the tipping point part of the question.
[00:39:08] McIntosh:
I think we answered it the way originally, the way she wanted. I but I was looking at it a little bit differently to start with when I kinda read through this the first time. So okay. Yeah. But,
[00:39:23] Kenshin:
one other thing. I mean, when you see those countries that hyperinflate Yes. Those countries, those people in those countries have already got it.
[00:39:34] McIntosh:
And Or they see it immediately when you explain it to them. Yes.
[00:39:38] Kenshin:
Yeah. And I because I heard that story from this guy in Venezuela. Mhmm. And it was incredible story. But yeah. Then you realize that it is actually the broken fear system that is is a big catalyst.
[00:39:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. Yeah. And and I do think that's gonna be a big part of it in the future. It just kinda depends on how you look at it as to what the actual thing is. But yeah. Alright. Number nine, Angelo's g z. Where is this where is this race by large corporations to buy Bitcoin leading us? Will the plebs be left at the bottom of the ladder? I'm going to answer the second one first. No. Simply because we essentially had a fifteen year head start or so on the corporations. So they sat around for forever and did not think that Bitcoin was a real thing or that it would last. So they're only now coming on board. Do they have more buying power than the average pleb? Absolutely. But because of the diminishing supply, there's not that many left for them to buy. And I'm trying to find a figure that's what I got distracted by just a minute ago. I cannot, but for the life of me, I've what I remember is that the plebs own more than 65%.
And I think in this case, it's even people with less than one Bitcoin. So we're not we're talking about not the whales, okay, own 65% of the Bitcoin supply. And if so, that is very, very promising for the kind of average person. Because even though Michael Saylor is gonna continue to buy Bitcoin, even though Meta Planet, even though this week, news news item, Texas passed a strategic Bitcoin reserve bill, and part of that bill was buying Bitcoin. So states here in The United States are now going to start buying Bitcoin. Even though all those things are going on, the plebs still have the upper hand, and I think we're far enough along with only what is it, Kenshin? 1,400,000.0 left to do.
[00:42:00] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:42:01] McIntosh:
Less than 5%, yes, anyway. They're not going to unless we give it to them, they're not gonna be able to have it all. Not the majority.
[00:42:12] Kenshin:
Yeah. And let buy as much as they want because drive the price. That means the price. That's right. Yeah.
[00:42:18] McIntosh:
Less less supply, less Where is it leading us? What's it? Bitcoin on all the public companies because that's the right thing to do. Bitcoin on every private company that's halfway smart as well as a savings tool. I think that's what will happen. And I'm I'm okay with that personally. So
[00:42:42] Kenshin:
Alright. Yeah. I agree. Next, we have m Nicholas. Okay. As time goes by, will there be fewer transactions on the Bitcoin network? Yes. I say. Because we have lightning. We have businesses and services built on top of, Bitcoin and lightning. So then we have a cash now, I would say the third layer. So you don't need to do, on chain transaction anymore to buy a coffee. You can do a lightning and then more and more big corporations will be doing those big transactions to consolidate funds. And they will be paying the big fees to the miners eventually.
[00:43:30] McIntosh:
The more and more of those companies that do that, that's going to increase the number of transactions.
[00:43:39] Kenshin:
I think the number of transactions will be lower, but the fees will be higher.
[00:43:45] McIntosh:
Well, it's really low right now, so I don't know how much lower we can go. I don't know. I I think I'm gonna disagree on this because I think that the businesses and nation state business of just that transactions, things like what was it the senate Mike brought up earlier? The, darn, our our network, a bank network, the Fedwire. Right? Fuck. That alone is $71,000 a block for $20 transactions. That is not that's not insubstantial, and that's only a small part of the total, financial network. There's such a small amount right now that actually flows over the Bitcoin network. I don't think we can really appreciate that.
[00:44:40] Kenshin:
Yeah. I mean, when we go to, Hyper Bitcoinization or something, and we are on the Bitcoin Southern, yes, we will have more transactions. But
[00:44:51] McIntosh:
Well, that's where I'm looking and I have no idea when when that happens, by the way, but so right.
[00:44:58] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. But I I think more technologies are built on top of lightning and e cash like cash you because you want transactions instantly in seconds. You don't want to wait for a few blocks. Right. So in in that sense, Us plebs will be working, I think, more with lightning Fair enough. And corporations with level later one. Alright.
[00:45:22] McIntosh:
Number 11, BTC ALM, a l m. Thank you very much for the opportunity. When do you think it will become easier for everyone to run a Bitcoin node and truly understand the importance of doing so? I don't think everyone will ever truly understand the importance of doing so. Right now, the easiest way to do it is with like a start nine or an umbral, which is still not dead simple. You do have to have a little computer knowledge to make that work. I don't think the average person will ever run a Bitcoin node personally. I know that other people say otherwise. Let me rephrase that. I could with true hyper Bitcoinization, yes, you could have a device that was not a screen that it just sits there and does its thing, that you don't really have to interact with. That I could see.
And then you hook up your wallet to that, you know, over the Internet, over the wireless network, whatever, not the Internet. And and so that would be essentially putting a Bitcoin node in every home. I don't see that happening for twenty years or more, most likely.
[00:46:49] Kenshin:
And will it be important at that point? That that I don't know.
[00:46:54] McIntosh:
Right. I think less people care about that than we tend to think. Yeah. They just wanna go to the bank and, you know, deal with the central you know, that entity. They don't care about being their own bank. They just don't. Does that make sense? The bank will be dealing in Bitcoin. JD Diamond doesn't want that, but it will happen.
[00:47:24] Kenshin:
Yeah. The groundwork is there. Yeah. As much as yeah. And as much as we like to say don't trust, verify, I think people always tend to trust some third party or corporation or bank or
[00:47:38] McIntosh:
a family member or something. But at least with Bitcoin, they have the opportunity to be truly independent. Yeah. Alright. Wrap it up with number 12, sir.
[00:47:50] Kenshin:
Yeah. Last one from oh, that's the most difficult name. MyCTX.
[00:47:56] McIntosh:
I don't know.
[00:47:57] Kenshin:
Do you think hyper Bitcoinization will happen gradually or suddenly? And what signs should we look for to know it's really happening? Well, if your mother comes to you and wants to
[00:48:13] McIntosh:
send you Bitcoin for your birthday or something, then you know. There you go. I I think, yeah, we're not just gonna wake up one day and everybody's gonna be dealing in Bitcoin. It will be a gradual process, but you will you'll kinda wake up one year and go, oh, man. Everybody's dealing in Bitcoin. Like, everybody accepts it. The the state isn't, like, taxing you 20% on capital gains on your on your Bitcoin because it's actually money, not a, I don't know what would an investment or whatever. Right? These kind of things. But I don't know.
[00:48:56] Kenshin:
You know, my, we got a comment. My mother has some sats. Yeah.
[00:49:05] McIntosh:
That's awesome. Cool.
[00:49:10] Kenshin:
No. Mine doesn't actually. I I need to send her some. But I I I had this discussion with a friend over the weekend about Sweden. And we act I I I thought at the moment that actually Sweden will be suddenly, not gradually. Because Sweden was one of the first countries to embrace credit cards, is one of the first countries to embrace digital IDs, to sign in everywhere with your fingerprint and digital ID is one of the first now to have, once some sort of lightning app that you send instantly, as little as one sent to each other. And it's all based it's banking stuff. Right? It's fiat may happen there.
And it's the culture here that they blindly trust the system.
[00:50:06] McIntosh:
The question is when is the system gonna wake up to it? Exactly.
[00:50:10] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:50:12] McIntosh:
That will be gradually. But when the system says that's what we're doing now, everybody will do it. Yeah. That's not gonna happen here. I think it's actually gonna be very piecemeal, and it may be driven by the states. I mean, what we saw happen in Texas and Arizona, I think, over the last few weeks is important. They both, I think they I know Texas did. I'm almost certain that Arizona did as well. They've approved these Bitcoin strategic Bitcoin reserves. That's steps. There's another bit. I don't wanna jump to the news, but there's also another bit about about the Ohio House, which would be essentially half their congress approving a bill so that when you spend $200 or less in Bitcoin, there's no cap gains tax in it. And that's important because if you're having to pay cap gains, especially on these tiny, tiny investments, it just doesn't make sense as a currency.
So very cool. So I'm going with gradually you're going with suddenly there you go. It's a split vote, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:51:22] Kenshin:
Yes. And thank you for the nice comments. Ian Fick. Oh, did did we have you in the I Ian Fick. Yeah. It was a third question. There we go.
[00:51:34] McIntosh:
Yeah. Thank you for joining. Awesome. Alright. We had our questions for the week, so we're not actually going to a question of the week. And there was a bit of news. I've already given some of it, so I'll skip over that. But there were a few things I wanted to hit up. Sorry. It was Texas. This says that they're gonna be the first state to hold Bitcoin in this treasury. So I think Arizona passed the SBR, but they don't have it funded. By the way, The United States hit $37,000,000,000,000 in debt. Go USA. We're number one. Thank you very much. We'll be here all week. $37,000,000,000,000, sir.
You Swedes cannot keep up with that.
[00:52:25] Kenshin:
No. Nice number.
[00:52:27] McIntosh:
Oh, I laugh because if I don't, I cry. Oh, and I did wanna mention this. I mentioned last week that France was talking about Bitcoin mining, as a government essentially, and they have now rejected that. So I'm gonna reserve my comments to myself. And, yeah, there we go. I think that was it for the news for this week, Kenshin. There really wasn't a whole lot, and there were no software updates.
[00:53:01] Kenshin:
Oh, but I told you that price go up. That's good news. But you told me price went down. Next section, Kenshin. You're jumping the gun. Oh,
[00:53:10] McIntosh:
well, I'm Alright. Right to go. And since you've already let that out by the way, you did not update the euros. So But you what's the pricing difference? As we record right now, I'm gonna update this in real time. It's $1.00 $7,700. Oh, we're both doing it at the same time. That's creepy. $1.00 $7,700. And how many we got in euros? Yeah.
[00:53:35] Kenshin:
€92,300.
[00:53:37] McIntosh:
So we are up for the week, certainly. We're approaching all time high territory again. And our price last June was 61,804. So we are up a modest 73.3% in the last year. Wow. Go ahead and do the market cap, and then I'll talk about what you mentioned
[00:54:00] Kenshin:
just a second ago. Yeah. I still need to point out that in euros, we are not so close to the all time high. I know. We're just slackers. So there is there is a discrepancy there between dollars and euros lately. Yeah? Okay. Market cap, Bitcoin market cap $2,100,000,000,000. Gold's market cap $23,100,000,000,000. That brings us to 9.2%.
[00:54:31] McIntosh:
Okay. Yeah. Very stable. And our fees right now sit at about two sets per vbyte with 20 megabytes of unprocessed transactions. So still very, very, very low. I do wanna take a couple of minutes. I think we've got some time and talk actually about the last week because what did I say? I I was listening to the podcast. I was actually testing the streaming, and I know I literally heard myself say it. I said, we're not gonna go below a 100,000. And Kenshin believed me. Oh, no. And he could not believe when I told him earlier we went below a 100,000. So clearly, Kenshin is not checking his Bitcoin clock enough. No. Apparently not. No. Kenshin has a life, and he's off doing other things.
So that's good for you. You do not have to check the price every hour or every day. So, seriously, good job. Oh, I see. So here's what happened. I'm gonna go back one week real quick.
[00:55:37] Kenshin:
June 21.
[00:55:39] McIntosh:
Yeah. So when things heated up over in Iran, essentially, we started looking really weak, and then we dumped all the way down actually to $98,300 according to this chart. But we spraying right back the next day. So there it is. We did go below a 100,000, but we have marched up over, well, 10,000, basically, since then.
[00:56:07] Kenshin:
So so what do you need to do now?
[00:56:11] McIntosh:
Are you asking what my penance is? I don't know. Double my DCA? I I don't know. That's good for you. I tell y'all all the time. Bitcoin does what it wants to do, and I don't it definitely was related to, you know, the Israel, Iran throwing missiles back at each other, and then The US got involved. There's no doubt about that. But it it in my opinion, it has shown its resiliency. Instead of taking a dive like it would have in 2017 and probably 2021, when this kind of thing, if it had happened back then and staying down there for weeks or more, You know, it did go down.
Not a whole lot. Less, what, 10% roughly from the all time high. Am I doing that right? No. I'm not. A 20%. But it has popped right back up, and it is honestly looking like it's about to break all time high again. So
[00:57:16] Kenshin:
We're we're close to somewhere. Yeah.
[00:57:19] McIntosh:
I know. Retail's gonna kick in at some point, Kenshin. You're right. We're going on vacation here. See, that's the top two. Europeans don't do your share during that's what it is. Yeah. See? Yeah. We're over here working our butts off buying Bitcoin, and you're sitting on the beach somewhere. I
[00:57:41] Kenshin:
yeah. Be patient for September.
[00:57:44] McIntosh:
You know I'm teasing you. Alright. Yeah.
[00:57:48] Kenshin:
But it's true?
[00:57:49] McIntosh:
No. The summer is historically I alright, I am not making any predictions. Bitcoin is gonna do exactly what Bitcoin wants to do. I will maintain before the end of the year. We we have definitely not seen our all time highs, and I stick with what I have been saying, which is one fifty plus. I I think that's what I've been saying.
[00:58:13] Kenshin:
Yeah. And my prediction is we will overtake Microsoft by the end of the year. So And it feels a bit
[00:58:22] McIntosh:
let's see. Hopefully This this fall could be wild. But, hey. Now I'm starting to sound like one of those YouTube channels trying to get subscribers. So I won't do that. No. But so What do you mean, please? What do we always say here, though, Kenshin? I will wrap this little segment up with this. What do we say? DCA. It's actually stop worrying about the price. Just buy the Bitcoin. We're going up in the long term, so just do it. Don't wait for it to go below a 175, whatever number somebody's throwing out. There's price people still saying 58,000. Yeah. Okay. And when the moon Oh, that was the question, wasn't it?
K. It was one of the questions you made. Later. If we're just purely gonna speculate, guys, I am actually I I I I guess I'm more optimistic for the summer than you are, Kinshine. We'll see.
[00:59:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. No. I'm We may we may make a
[00:59:25] McIntosh:
prediction now. I still think we're gonna break above one ten solidly, and then we're hitting one twenty and one thirty before the end of the summer before we even really get started. But I, you know, I could be wrong. I probably am. Do not clip that out and say that I said nothing.
[00:59:43] Kenshin:
Oh.
[00:59:45] McIntosh:
He he never wants to make a prediction. I did. I just did. Well, I made one last week and got proven wrong, so, you know, I should learn. Yeah. Alright. Look. We gotta wrap this up, friends. Oh, land's sakes. Someone clip this, please. You clip it. You you you clip it. You can clip it and put it on. I mean, I'm not You're not paying me. I'm not paying you enough. Oh god. Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Satoshi Splebs is a value for value podcast just like we were talking about earlier, and we do support podcast two point o. No ads, no sponsorships, just honest Bitcoin content. I deliberately avoid sponsorships because even if I do love a company, taking their money would influence my opinion.
What if something goes wrong with that company? I would probably hesitate to warn you, and I have seen that many, many times in the podcast world. Instead, I ask, are you getting value from the show? Support it through time, talent, or treasure. Help with the chapters, or future projects like our chat room. Stream some sets, boost with messages, even a 100 sets saying great show or you suck. I'll read it either way. There's a whole list of podcast two point o apps at podcastapps.com that support independent Bitcoin media like us. If you like the content, I would love it if you would tell your friends about the podcast. That is the best way for us to continue to grow.
This week's music, once again, is live for tomorrow by Kazuki Tokaji. You should listen to it at 1.6 speed like, send it Mike said. Any boost or streaming during that song will go straight to the artist. I cannot imagine what that song sounds like at 1.6.
[01:01:40] Kenshin:
I will try it. Yeah. So thanks for being here, everyone, and the live audience as well. We hope this has been helpful. We would love to hear from you, and you can find all our content at satoshis.plebs.com. And stay humble, and have a great weekend.
[01:02:03] McIntosh:
We'll talk to you all soon.
[01:02:05] Kenshin:
Bye bye.
What is up, PlebNation? Today is June, and this is episode 215 of Satoshi's Plebs. We've got a packed listener q and a episode today, questions about everything from security practices and corporate adoption to the future of Nostr and Bitcoin's transaction patterns.
[00:00:21] Kenshin:
That's right. So our listeners brought some serious questions this week on Nostr. We're talking custody strategies, the philosophical implications of post state societies running Bitcoin node on mobiles, and whether the plebs get left behind as corporations stack more sets.
[00:00:41] McIntosh:
Plus some deeper dives into value for value models, what happens if Nostra disappears, and what future historians will say about Bitcoin's real tipping point. But before all that, let's get our house in order. So how is the livestream doing? We've got some people out there on zap.stream. You guys, there's a chat function there. You should give us a shout out and let us know how things are, maybe where you're from, if you're comfortable with that. Yeah.
[00:01:13] Kenshin:
And who you are? Are you from Nostr? Let's see. Anyone of you who gave us questions? Yeah. That would be cool.
[00:01:21] McIntosh:
That would be cool. Alright. As we record, we are at a block height of 902,692. Yeah. And that brings up the quest oh, sorry, Kenshin. Yeah. We'll keep climbing. We it's funny how that works. About every ten minutes, roughly. Uh-huh. And that brings up a question, Kenshin. What is going on with you? Those two things are directly related.
[00:01:49] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. I, it's good. Good. I don't know. It's been, like, a week and a half so far. We're just half week in, but it feels like double that or triple that so far. It's my my days are dominated by fiat stress and claude coding in the evenings.
[00:02:12] McIntosh:
Okay. And when do you start your summer vacation that we talked about last week?
[00:02:18] Kenshin:
I start to we we we measure in weeks here in Sweden. So we say week 29, I start my vacation. Okay. Week 29 to 32. So four weeks. Four more weeks from now? No. Yeah. In two weeks, I start vacations and then four week vacations. I understand. Back to the saddle.
[00:02:41] McIntosh:
Very cool. So you'll get a break then a little bit.
[00:02:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. But I will be working on stuff on Right. Mine and my wife's projects, which should be going live hopefully by the time I start vacations. So then we use the vacations to to really push it through
[00:02:59] McIntosh:
and get some things.
[00:03:01] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:02] McIntosh:
It's very exciting. Alright. Very cool.
[00:03:05] Kenshin:
How about you?
[00:03:06] McIntosh:
I've been I I made some progress with work. I survived the week of being on call, and, you know, I don't know. Got some things done. We're still busy, but maybe there's a light and maybe it's not a train. So we'll see. But I also worked on our lightning node last when was it? It wasn't last night. Two nights ago, I migrated the node from one server to our new server, and that was successful except I forgot one parameter. So even though the node was online and everything was humming away, it streaming or boosting was not working. The the Satoshis were not getting to us. It turns out I needed to add a parameter, which was on the old server. It was right there. I just simply missed it. And it was, you know, 04:00 in the morning when I stopped, so give me a little bit of grace, please.
But once I added that and restarted the node, everything was up and running. So we are back in business. As far as I can see, everything is exactly the same. So now we're gonna work on that a little bit, get it some more channels set up, I'm hoping, and, you know, improve that a bit. I also worked on Helipad, which is a little program that one of the people in the podcasting two point o community built to be able to see boost and streams coming in, as they occur. We had it on the old setup. I have not been able to get it to work yet, but I I should be able to on the new setup. So that way, we can basically open up a web browser and read off our boost like the ones that we're about to read.
[00:04:58] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's cool. Yeah.
[00:05:00] McIntosh:
Do you wanna go ahead and do these?
[00:05:03] Kenshin:
Yeah. We have, send it Mike from episode 214, last episode. So his first, boost for 1,069 SATs was good this good discussion. I think a good place to look for analogous data to Bitcoin fees is wire transfers. Fedwire in The US sends around 16,000,000 transfers a month Mhmm. At $20 each. That's $320,000,000 available for fees, which is about $171,000 dollars per block. That's just Fedwire in The US. Right. That's some good analogy and math there. Yeah.
[00:05:51] McIntosh:
One of the things I really like about Synod Mike is he breaks things down like this in ways that are practical, and he puts numbers to it, and it makes sense. And he's right. I mean, that's the type of thing that I expect to see ultimately on the Bitcoin main net that will be powering those transactions that we were or powering that network that we were talking about last week. So that was a a great boost. Thank you. Yeah. And we have this,
[00:06:21] Kenshin:
similar question that we will answer further down. Well, let's not do that now. Not now. But, yeah, we can You're right. Continue that discussion there. You're right. And I
[00:06:32] McIntosh:
I think I just figured out what he meant in this second one. So he sent a second boost, 690 sets. He said rock and roll. My face melted at 1.6 x speed. So a couple of things. If you were talking about our regular talk, that probably speeds me up to about normal speed. So that's probably pretty good. But I think he was talking about the music that I had at the end, and I I butcher that poor man's name every week. I'm gonna try one more time. Where is it? It's I'm drawing a complete blank. I don't have it in front. There it is. Kazuki Tokaji.
It's a great song if you haven't heard it. It's at the it'll be at the end of the episode. This will be the last week that I use that. I I normally would have switched it out this week, but I have not had time to find a new, song yet. So, we'll have that one more time. Slow it down. The guy plays fast enough as it is, so you don't need to speed that up. Alright. But thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
[00:07:40] Kenshin:
And I we we do sincerely appreciate your support. Yeah. Now now I'm curious. I need to try that too.
[00:07:47] McIntosh:
You you and music. I there is one thing, ladies and gentlemen, that Kenshin and I are completely different in. He just music is just like it it for me, I love music. It's not the same for him him. No. It goes inside one ear, comes out the other ear. Exactly. Straight through. No. Nothing gets left inside. Alright. Anyways, so we're gonna go ahead and dive on into these questions. We have got how many did we end up with? Was it 11? Yeah. We've got 11 questions. 12. We've got the best. Oh, you do? Okay. Right. 12 questions, from the audience. I appreciate this. You guys to be honest, Kenshin and I were talking, and and our last questions episode about three months ago, I really thought the questions were really good, but y'all have outdone yourself this time. So they were, I thought, overall better.
And so let's just get right on into it so we don't make this episode too long, Kenshin. What is number one?
[00:08:54] Kenshin:
Number one is from Liberat, Libertas
[00:09:01] McIntosh:
BR. Sorry. That sounds good.
[00:09:03] Kenshin:
Libertas BR. And he said and he has he has sent us a question before. Okay. The previous one. Yeah. I remember him. Mhmm. His question is, what did you learn in this journey spreading the world by podcast? Receiving any feedback each episode? He's asking. Yeah.
[00:09:22] McIntosh:
You want me to go first or you wanna go? Yeah. I don't know what to say. I'll go first. I've learned I can be very dogmatic. And what I think, I can put my ideas out there, but ultimately, I have learned to kind of soften things. And you know what? Other people can have different ideas and different opinions, and that's okay because they're people just like I am, and they're gonna that that's their journey. And if they think differently, then that's okay. I I great example. Here really quickly. I would never buy MicroStrategy stock or strategy is now the company name.
Michael Saylor's company, or a Bitcoin ETF fund. But there are people who they are perfectly comfortable with that. Alright. And that's okay. I'm not gonna come on here and yell at you and say, you should not do that. I'm gonna say I wouldn't do that. I'm gonna say, why? But in the end, it's your choice.
[00:10:28] Kenshin:
Mhmm. I I I can just add that either I'm right or you're wrong. So I agree with you.
[00:10:36] McIntosh:
Wait. What? Wait. What? Doesn't that mean the same thing? Well, defense. Either I'm right or you're wrong. Wait. Okay. Well, while we're waiting for Macintosh to figure that out, we should probably go on to the next question. Alright. The bullish Bitcoiner, has said said this. Congratulations on 215 plebs, with a party emoji. Here's my question for both of you. How are your vibe coding journeys going, and do you have a dream project that you hope to build in the future?
[00:11:16] Kenshin:
Wow. Sir? Great question. Very relevant question. Mhmm. Yes. I am currently vibe coding, as you say. Mhmm. I actually upgraded my Claude subscription to Max. So from the $20 a month to the $200 a month? I would man. Okay. Yeah. I I couldn't resist because I was using it so much and I was hitting that limit. I Yeah. I was hitting that limit every two and a half hours and then I had to wait another two and a half hours.
[00:11:52] McIntosh:
That's funny. I do the same thing. Yeah? Yep.
[00:11:56] Kenshin:
It's it's worth it. And at least for for me for now, for this month, that I'm fully developing, this app with my wife. And some days are so frustrating. I had this, experience on Sunday that Claude is literally like a human on a Sunday that didn't want to work. He was reverting code and saying, okay, it's done. I'm like, but you just reverted back. I just want to make this new feature. And he's like, okay. I will try again. It happens Yeah. So many times. Yeah. And it was getting very tiresome. But, we pushed through eventually. Mhmm. But, yeah, it's going good. I, developing this, app with my wife that we had this idea since 2000 I don't know, 1718 maybe.
For sure, 02/2018. We we even started back then doing a business plan and everything. Okay. And What? Finally this year on in May, sometime in May, I went to my wife and I said, you know what? We can actually do this now with AI. And that was such a mind blowing moment for for both of us. And especially for me because I was struggling for years to imagine how I can do it and with WordPress and a bunch of plugins, and it was impossible to to put together. And finally, whatever you imagine now, it feels possible. So it's it's amazing.
[00:13:29] McIntosh:
I've watched you in this journey, and, it's impressive. And you guys are are it sounds to me like you're accomplishing great things. I'm looking forward to to seeing that app when you go live. Yeah. For myself, I've been using ChatGPT and now Claude for a couple of years, really, since they kind of announced ChatGPT and it kind of came out of beta or whatever. I use it in my job quite a bit. I almost don't even go to Google and do a search anymore. I just ask Claude. Or but I'm constantly, like, writing little scripts for various things, which would take me far, far longer if I were doing it by hand.
Claude is particularly adept at Python, so which is what we script him. Now in terms of what did you say? Like a project, a dream project? I think Kenshin's known me long enough to know this. I have ideas, like, every thirty seconds. Is that a true story? Yeah. You have your little notebook of ideas. Right? Yeah. Note them down. Look. I get them so fast. I just forget them, you know, and I move on to no. That's not true. But I do. I have a lot of ideas, but to be honest, I have actually put thought into this. What can I take, Claude or really the entire kind of AI toolkit and build?
And I would want it to be some kind of direct Bitcoin based thing as just simply as a way to kind of give back to the community. And if I can support myself, make money off of that as well, that would be terrific. I don't have anything right now, but I'm sure probably before the end of the year, I'll figure something out. So it has definitely, definitely made me more productive. And if you do software engineering of any kind, if you write code in your job and you're not using AI, you are hurting yourself. You need to go ahead and get involved even if you're only using if you're just using the free version. You don't have to do what what Kenshin and I are doing where we, you know, we are spending money. I don't spend I spend $20 a month on my version of Claude, which for now is okay. It's a pretty big jump between 20 and a $100.
I I actually looked at that the other night because I have run into that problem. But if I had a project that I were coding like you and a specific goal, I'd probably be doing the same thing. So
[00:16:27] Kenshin:
Yeah. I will not be paying for much longer. I don't think maybe another month until it's out and then the the, the smaller updates, it's enough with the main with the main claw that's 20. But but another example I thought now, I took my son next to me and I told him, think of any game and tell me what it is and we will build it instantly in front of yours in front of you on the screen. Right. And he's five and he came up with a game and within an hour we had a game on the screen and he was playing.
[00:17:02] McIntosh:
And it was his idea, 100%. So I thought that was really cool. Okay. Very cool. Yeah. It's when it works, it's a beautiful thing. It can be very frustrating at times. But, alright.
[00:17:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. Next one from Iyan Ficke. Question. Holding onto your coins, especially as newbie, is usually a risky affair. There are lots of ways to lose all your coins. Be it hardware malfunctions, lost or forgotten keys or passwords, or even malware and hacks. My question is, what optimal measures do you have for keeping your stack Considering some of these cases may be accidental, and if you use your stack consist consistently Mhmm. How do you use it safely? Right. And how do you make sure your dependents, can access it, in case of any emergencies? Yeah. Okay. A lot of questions. Good questions there.
Very important questions. I can start if you want. Sure. I can say, yes. It's very stressful in the beginning Mhmm. When you get started with a new software or hardware, any of them. But I would say you start with a small amount, get familiar with the hardware or the software, and then you take precautions. The biggest one is to store your seed phrase safely in a couple of spots. Mhmm. So if one is damaged or lost, then you have a backup. And ideally, you stamp that seed phrase in some sort of metal, and there are many, many ways to do it. So I would say that's then the peace of mind because if the hardware wallet malfunctions or whatever, it doesn't matter. You buy a new one and you restore from your seed phrase. So and the software the same.
Then the the the question of of, malware and hacks. I don't consider that an issue because if you do it properly, you do it with a offline Right. Air gapped device. Right. Or even an air gapped, PC with a software on it. So you can still be software based if you don't want to buy a hardware wallet. So as long as it's air gaps, you don't need to worry about all those issues. And, how do you consistently use the stack? I I would say I don't. What I consistently might be doing is send to my cold wallet stack, to my offline stack. Mhmm. Send to it, but not spend from it. So what I usually spend is lightning when I need to. I just bought another month for a Mullvad VPN.
Okay. I paid with my Albi hub. Right. So, there's no risk there. And then lastly, how do you my family access it. I I I have taught my wife how to access everything. And, yeah, worst case scenario, the easiest one is, again, to restore from a seed phrase. And you can restore in in a software wallet if she forgets how to use the hardware. So it's yeah.
[00:20:43] McIntosh:
I think it's fine for now. Let me add a couple of of real small things here real quick. I do actually spend consistently every month, from my mining wallet. I have to pay for my hosting, and my host takes Bitcoin, of course. So I get to exercise that. And I use a a Sparrow wallet on my laptop, and then I use seed signer hardware device in order to sign it. So that device is air gapped like you were talking about. And, you know, it is nontrivial. If you're worried about losing your funds, I certainly would not put a large amount on there to start with. And you said the same thing or something similar.
You know, just start small. If you have somebody that you trust that knows Bitcoin that can mentor you, that is ideal. Otherwise, you know, this might not be this might not work for everyone or might not. They might not like me saying this, but if you're buying Bitcoin on a regular basis on a place like Coinbase and you have a decent amount on there, don't just move it all off into your hardware wallet if you're not used to that. Move a little bit of it. Get used to it. Find ways of actually using it to spend or to, you know, to handle, to use.
And then as you're more comfortable with it, move that money off the exchange and onto your setup. Does that make sense? And everybody may not agree with that. This kinda goes back to one of those other questions, and that's fine. You do you, boo. But, you know, I I just you need to be comfortable with it. And to do that, it takes repetition.
[00:22:50] Kenshin:
Yeah. And we had some episodes, right, talking more about wallets and Mhmm. Hardware and software wallets, etcetera. If you go to satoshis-blebs.com/episodes,
[00:23:01] McIntosh:
there's a, like, a list. If you look through that list, there are several that talk about wallets and that kind of thing, so I'd take a look at those. Alright. I'm gonna get a fun one here. Hines sent in a message. Could Bitcoin and Oster together form the foundation of a post state society? I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you no. I I don't I mean, just my opinion. Again, this is something that people will probably disagree with, at least some of us. I don't think that that's ever going to be achieved, to be honest. I don't see that happening.
I understand the concepts. I understand why. I'm telling you I would like it, but I just don't think it's gonna happen. Will Bitcoin help in some ways? Will Nostr help in some ways in creating a better society? I certainly think so. I think Bitcoin has the possibility of making radical changes long term in how governments spend money and how people save money and and how people interact with each other. And maybe one day, there will be a kind of a post fiat world. I don't you know, I at least believe that that's possible. Nostr certainly is a a much better alternative to Twitter, but I just don't see everybody moving over to Nostr wholesale. I just that's just not how I think the real world works, but I'm glad that we have it. And we can kinda be over here building our own stuff and even showing it to people and saying, hey. This is what we're doing. We can build better stuff than than what's out there.
So, yeah, hope that helps. And I maybe that's disappointing, but that's just that's just my thoughts on it, frankly. Unfortunately, I agree. So it's sad, but it's true. I just I don't see any way around it.
[00:25:12] Kenshin:
I I thought you would say something different, and I would disagree with you. But, unfortunately, I agree. What did you think I was gonna say? I don't know. I thought you would be more
[00:25:22] McIntosh:
optimistic. More optimistic? Yeah. Yeah. I you know, I will say this. Bitcoin specifically gives you the opportunity to have your family save their wealth. And if your personal situation, regardless of where that may be, and I am not picking on any one nation state at all, if you decide this isn't for you, you can get up and leave and you can take it with you. And you don't have to worry about your money being in the bank and all that kind of stuff. Now you may have difficulties with passports and getting into other that's a different issue. But you could take your money with you with 12 words that you put in your head.
[00:26:08] Kenshin:
Right. Next one, from Milan Polja. Congrats on 02/2015. Do you think that in the future, it will be possible to run a full node on a phone? And will it go so far that you will be able to open lightning channels on a phone? Thanks.
[00:26:27] McIntosh:
I I would It's Sorry. Let me I I was wrong. I said earlier this was a Bitcoin note. I do think they made a lightning note.
[00:26:36] Kenshin:
Yeah. So sorry. But it it still says full note. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be But I would say but I would say that's already happening.
[00:26:47] McIntosh:
Zeus. For lightning. Yes. Not for for lightning. For a Bitcoin node. And I don't think you can run a full Bitcoin node probably ever on a phone. Too much disk space.
[00:26:59] Kenshin:
Too much. Yeah. But you can run a pruned node. But that's not a full node.
[00:27:04] McIntosh:
It's not a full node. A full node does mean all the transactions. Now with I think I talked about last week or the week before with z k roll ups, there is a possibility that at some point, you can basically start your Bitcoin node anywhere and have a mathematically proven point saying everything prior to this is correct. And you don't have to keep all that data, which would basically make it so you could make an instantaneous node. But that's not a full node.
[00:27:36] Kenshin:
Yeah. But I'm pretty sure, like, four or five years ago, someone has already done it when the when when the blockchain was less than 500. Right. Like, less than half a terabyte, I I pretty sure I've seen it Right. Online. And So it's not technically, it's very possible
[00:27:56] McIntosh:
for for a long time. But yeah. So I just added another 100 gigs to our hard drive on our node because we ran out of disk space. So we're now at, 900 gigs on that partition, which is only the Bitcoin node and lightning. So I don't know. We're at Yeah. We're adding data at a at a
[00:28:18] Kenshin:
pretty Yeah. My right. My notes are two terabytes. Mhmm. Because, yeah, one is not enough anymore. I don't know.
[00:28:25] McIntosh:
Whatever. I don't know.
[00:28:28] Kenshin:
No. But you don't need to, actually, I would say. And lightning lightning full lightning nose, you can already have with, something like Zeus wallet.
[00:28:37] McIntosh:
Which is cool. Very cool. Alright. Dune Mesias. I'm sorry. Can you Messiah. Messiah? Value for value was never just about money. It was about connection, feedback, and reciprocity. You guys are trying to trick me up. Reciprocity. How did you see the practice of v four v evolving? Are we still following the Adam Curry playbook? The Adam Curry playbook or writing a new one here. So very briefly, Adam Curry is the co creator of podcasting. He was also one of the very early MTV DJs, but, so he is a big proponent of value for value. He and a guy named John Dvorak have done a value for value podcast for well over a decade.
And I would say that what you said, connection feedback and reciprocity, in addition to money, is exactly what value for value is all about. And I don't really see it evolving. Yes. We're adding on the digital money aspect because, like, thirteen years ago or how I don't know how long it's been, but however long it was that they started no agenda, It was checks. Like, literally, people would just send them checks. And now it's, PayPal, and now they've actually started taking streaming sets and whatever. Yeah. Okay. That's just an evolution of the money. It's not a change in value for value.
Now, I'll say this value for value is difficult. We've been doing this show for a long time, and, we have faithful listeners. We have faithful supporters. But it's and I love all of our listeners, but, frankly, the support, if I'm being blunt, is not a whole lot. So I don't know.
[00:30:44] Kenshin:
It's a few very few podcasts that this model really, really works and works very good. But I would also say,
[00:30:52] McIntosh:
in general, the regular model doesn't work for very small podcast either because you have to have thousands of downloads a month. And I do mean thousands, like 10,000 a month to get one little ad, which doesn't really make you a whole lot. So it's just a hard thing. It just is. But yeah. Okay. Thanks for the question, though. That was, that was a great question.
[00:31:22] Kenshin:
Yeah. Then we have Maya. If Nostra disappears tomorrow, what lesson do we walk away with, and what do we rebuild first?
[00:31:32] McIntosh:
Great question.
[00:31:34] Kenshin:
Great question. Yeah. So if it is I mean yeah. Okay. That's a very, hypothetical because no matter what, it cannot disappear because it's it's not a single server. Right? It is decentralized. So it will keep going even with a small smaller crowd. But hypothetically, if it disappears and it's completely obsolete Yeah. Maybe that we do need a centralized authority to market it. I don't know. Would that be a lesson? That would be a bad lesson, but I guess that would be the lesson. And what to rebuild first? I mean, we do really need to have some sort of decentralized system to communicate and share ideas and thoughts because, yeah, all those centralized places, Facebook, Twitter, what name it, you always get censorship one way or another. And, so I would say we would still need this type of technology to be decentralized.
And of course, we we can build, more filters in some way that are useful and, practical. Mhmm. Because, of course, you don't want to see everyone's opinion. You still want to curate what you you want to see. Right? So I don't know if if Nostra, is for me, it's good. I mean, I follow who I follow. I don't get much random stuff, I would say. So I don't know. Some people might get bothered, but I I am okay with it, honestly.
[00:33:23] McIntosh:
Okay. I wanna say this. Sorry. I got I got distracted. There is something I would like to say. Maybe it's just the nature of decentralized open source work, but we were actually discussing this very issue earlier today. I'd gotten a DM from someone, a a mail message or whatever. And the reality is that some clients that work, some clients that doesn't, Because I think there's different protocols that people have tried to implement that have different features and whatever. And maybe in the long term, that's good. You get the best.
But the reality is in the short term, it's just frustrating. I don't know. I don't know if there's a way to learn from what we've done in Nostra and build something better if that were to actually happen, or if this is just the nature of open source development where people build something that scratches their itch as I would say. So
[00:34:27] Kenshin:
I don't know. And I I remember a couple of stuff now, and let's think that Nostr is a protocol. It's not an app.
[00:34:37] McIntosh:
Yes. Right?
[00:34:38] Kenshin:
So you have primal. You have amethyst. You have oh, it's so many. Anyway, so Nostr as a protocol, it is what it is. And then who builds on top of it and what they build if it fails or not. That's another question. So I would say, there we learn the most lessons about UX and what features and how it syncs and, you know, what it offers. Because I I jump around between Primal and Amethyst because they have their pros and cons, both of them. So I think those are possible to fail and we learn the biggest lessons there. And as a protocol, yeah, they still build on top of it and improve it. But, yeah, but there's a distinction there that we need to remember.
[00:35:31] McIntosh:
Okay. Alright. I yeah. We could spend a we could really honestly spend an entire episode talking about that. We can't, but we could. Yeah. I don't know. It is not without its flaws, but honestly, there are some really, really interesting things going on in the Nostra ecosystem. Who did the last one? I think you did. So Sherry wrote in and said this. What do you think future historians will say was the real tipping point for Bitcoin adoption? The tech, the memes, or the broken fiat system. What do you say, Kinshan?
[00:36:14] Kenshin:
I mean, I I would like to think that is the broken fiat system.
[00:36:20] McIntosh:
You and me both would like to think that. Yes.
[00:36:23] Kenshin:
Yeah. That's what I have learned already, and and that's what I'm taking in the future with me. The tech is a cool tech. I mean, but it's nothing, I would say, it's nothing unique in a sense that all the tech comprising Bitcoin existed for many years. It's just that it's the collection of the tech into one product and and, you know, how they interact that made Bitcoin successful and unique. So in in that sense, I mean, we can't be talking about e cash or proof of work, you know, but those are technologies that were developed bef before Bitcoin and blockchain and all this. But I would like to think it's a broken fiat system, not the memes.
[00:37:15] McIntosh:
It's not the memes. Can we just say that? I don't I don't think so. I really don't think that something this important is determined by who who makes the best memes. I don't think it's tech other than just the combination kind of like you alluded to. I mean, Bitcoin puts together proof of work. It puts together the immutability of the blockchain, all of this kind of, you know, the other things that it combines, a fixed supply, etcetera. I think the combination of that is why it has survived versus the millions now of other blockchains.
I think ultimately, it will succeed because of the broken fiat system, because it is the best replacement. It's kinda funny. I read this a little bit differently originally, and it's I think we answered what Sherry really intended, but I was kinda thinking along in the terms of since day one, what are the tipping points of Bitcoin adoption is kinda what I was thinking. And the first one I would actually say was the famous pizza, the first real commercial transaction of Bitcoin. We laugh about it. Our people do. I do not. You know, the the guy spent 10,000 Bitcoin on a couple of pizza, but that was a tipping point. That was somebody using Bitcoin for a real thing.
I also think another tipping point would be the first nation state to start using Bitcoin. And if I'm not mistaken, it was not El Salvador. They were the first one to make it legal tender, but Bhutan was already mining Bitcoin before them.
[00:39:03] Kenshin:
That that's a good catch. I I I didn't focus on the tipping point part of the question.
[00:39:08] McIntosh:
I think we answered it the way originally, the way she wanted. I but I was looking at it a little bit differently to start with when I kinda read through this the first time. So okay. Yeah. But,
[00:39:23] Kenshin:
one other thing. I mean, when you see those countries that hyperinflate Yes. Those countries, those people in those countries have already got it.
[00:39:34] McIntosh:
And Or they see it immediately when you explain it to them. Yes.
[00:39:38] Kenshin:
Yeah. And I because I heard that story from this guy in Venezuela. Mhmm. And it was incredible story. But yeah. Then you realize that it is actually the broken fear system that is is a big catalyst.
[00:39:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. Yeah. And and I do think that's gonna be a big part of it in the future. It just kinda depends on how you look at it as to what the actual thing is. But yeah. Alright. Number nine, Angelo's g z. Where is this where is this race by large corporations to buy Bitcoin leading us? Will the plebs be left at the bottom of the ladder? I'm going to answer the second one first. No. Simply because we essentially had a fifteen year head start or so on the corporations. So they sat around for forever and did not think that Bitcoin was a real thing or that it would last. So they're only now coming on board. Do they have more buying power than the average pleb? Absolutely. But because of the diminishing supply, there's not that many left for them to buy. And I'm trying to find a figure that's what I got distracted by just a minute ago. I cannot, but for the life of me, I've what I remember is that the plebs own more than 65%.
And I think in this case, it's even people with less than one Bitcoin. So we're not we're talking about not the whales, okay, own 65% of the Bitcoin supply. And if so, that is very, very promising for the kind of average person. Because even though Michael Saylor is gonna continue to buy Bitcoin, even though Meta Planet, even though this week, news news item, Texas passed a strategic Bitcoin reserve bill, and part of that bill was buying Bitcoin. So states here in The United States are now going to start buying Bitcoin. Even though all those things are going on, the plebs still have the upper hand, and I think we're far enough along with only what is it, Kenshin? 1,400,000.0 left to do.
[00:42:00] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:42:01] McIntosh:
Less than 5%, yes, anyway. They're not going to unless we give it to them, they're not gonna be able to have it all. Not the majority.
[00:42:12] Kenshin:
Yeah. And let buy as much as they want because drive the price. That means the price. That's right. Yeah.
[00:42:18] McIntosh:
Less less supply, less Where is it leading us? What's it? Bitcoin on all the public companies because that's the right thing to do. Bitcoin on every private company that's halfway smart as well as a savings tool. I think that's what will happen. And I'm I'm okay with that personally. So
[00:42:42] Kenshin:
Alright. Yeah. I agree. Next, we have m Nicholas. Okay. As time goes by, will there be fewer transactions on the Bitcoin network? Yes. I say. Because we have lightning. We have businesses and services built on top of, Bitcoin and lightning. So then we have a cash now, I would say the third layer. So you don't need to do, on chain transaction anymore to buy a coffee. You can do a lightning and then more and more big corporations will be doing those big transactions to consolidate funds. And they will be paying the big fees to the miners eventually.
[00:43:30] McIntosh:
The more and more of those companies that do that, that's going to increase the number of transactions.
[00:43:39] Kenshin:
I think the number of transactions will be lower, but the fees will be higher.
[00:43:45] McIntosh:
Well, it's really low right now, so I don't know how much lower we can go. I don't know. I I think I'm gonna disagree on this because I think that the businesses and nation state business of just that transactions, things like what was it the senate Mike brought up earlier? The, darn, our our network, a bank network, the Fedwire. Right? Fuck. That alone is $71,000 a block for $20 transactions. That is not that's not insubstantial, and that's only a small part of the total, financial network. There's such a small amount right now that actually flows over the Bitcoin network. I don't think we can really appreciate that.
[00:44:40] Kenshin:
Yeah. I mean, when we go to, Hyper Bitcoinization or something, and we are on the Bitcoin Southern, yes, we will have more transactions. But
[00:44:51] McIntosh:
Well, that's where I'm looking and I have no idea when when that happens, by the way, but so right.
[00:44:58] Kenshin:
Yeah. Yeah. But I I think more technologies are built on top of lightning and e cash like cash you because you want transactions instantly in seconds. You don't want to wait for a few blocks. Right. So in in that sense, Us plebs will be working, I think, more with lightning Fair enough. And corporations with level later one. Alright.
[00:45:22] McIntosh:
Number 11, BTC ALM, a l m. Thank you very much for the opportunity. When do you think it will become easier for everyone to run a Bitcoin node and truly understand the importance of doing so? I don't think everyone will ever truly understand the importance of doing so. Right now, the easiest way to do it is with like a start nine or an umbral, which is still not dead simple. You do have to have a little computer knowledge to make that work. I don't think the average person will ever run a Bitcoin node personally. I know that other people say otherwise. Let me rephrase that. I could with true hyper Bitcoinization, yes, you could have a device that was not a screen that it just sits there and does its thing, that you don't really have to interact with. That I could see.
And then you hook up your wallet to that, you know, over the Internet, over the wireless network, whatever, not the Internet. And and so that would be essentially putting a Bitcoin node in every home. I don't see that happening for twenty years or more, most likely.
[00:46:49] Kenshin:
And will it be important at that point? That that I don't know.
[00:46:54] McIntosh:
Right. I think less people care about that than we tend to think. Yeah. They just wanna go to the bank and, you know, deal with the central you know, that entity. They don't care about being their own bank. They just don't. Does that make sense? The bank will be dealing in Bitcoin. JD Diamond doesn't want that, but it will happen.
[00:47:24] Kenshin:
Yeah. The groundwork is there. Yeah. As much as yeah. And as much as we like to say don't trust, verify, I think people always tend to trust some third party or corporation or bank or
[00:47:38] McIntosh:
a family member or something. But at least with Bitcoin, they have the opportunity to be truly independent. Yeah. Alright. Wrap it up with number 12, sir.
[00:47:50] Kenshin:
Yeah. Last one from oh, that's the most difficult name. MyCTX.
[00:47:56] McIntosh:
I don't know.
[00:47:57] Kenshin:
Do you think hyper Bitcoinization will happen gradually or suddenly? And what signs should we look for to know it's really happening? Well, if your mother comes to you and wants to
[00:48:13] McIntosh:
send you Bitcoin for your birthday or something, then you know. There you go. I I think, yeah, we're not just gonna wake up one day and everybody's gonna be dealing in Bitcoin. It will be a gradual process, but you will you'll kinda wake up one year and go, oh, man. Everybody's dealing in Bitcoin. Like, everybody accepts it. The the state isn't, like, taxing you 20% on capital gains on your on your Bitcoin because it's actually money, not a, I don't know what would an investment or whatever. Right? These kind of things. But I don't know.
[00:48:56] Kenshin:
You know, my, we got a comment. My mother has some sats. Yeah.
[00:49:05] McIntosh:
That's awesome. Cool.
[00:49:10] Kenshin:
No. Mine doesn't actually. I I need to send her some. But I I I had this discussion with a friend over the weekend about Sweden. And we act I I I thought at the moment that actually Sweden will be suddenly, not gradually. Because Sweden was one of the first countries to embrace credit cards, is one of the first countries to embrace digital IDs, to sign in everywhere with your fingerprint and digital ID is one of the first now to have, once some sort of lightning app that you send instantly, as little as one sent to each other. And it's all based it's banking stuff. Right? It's fiat may happen there.
And it's the culture here that they blindly trust the system.
[00:50:06] McIntosh:
The question is when is the system gonna wake up to it? Exactly.
[00:50:10] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:50:12] McIntosh:
That will be gradually. But when the system says that's what we're doing now, everybody will do it. Yeah. That's not gonna happen here. I think it's actually gonna be very piecemeal, and it may be driven by the states. I mean, what we saw happen in Texas and Arizona, I think, over the last few weeks is important. They both, I think they I know Texas did. I'm almost certain that Arizona did as well. They've approved these Bitcoin strategic Bitcoin reserves. That's steps. There's another bit. I don't wanna jump to the news, but there's also another bit about about the Ohio House, which would be essentially half their congress approving a bill so that when you spend $200 or less in Bitcoin, there's no cap gains tax in it. And that's important because if you're having to pay cap gains, especially on these tiny, tiny investments, it just doesn't make sense as a currency.
So very cool. So I'm going with gradually you're going with suddenly there you go. It's a split vote, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:51:22] Kenshin:
Yes. And thank you for the nice comments. Ian Fick. Oh, did did we have you in the I Ian Fick. Yeah. It was a third question. There we go.
[00:51:34] McIntosh:
Yeah. Thank you for joining. Awesome. Alright. We had our questions for the week, so we're not actually going to a question of the week. And there was a bit of news. I've already given some of it, so I'll skip over that. But there were a few things I wanted to hit up. Sorry. It was Texas. This says that they're gonna be the first state to hold Bitcoin in this treasury. So I think Arizona passed the SBR, but they don't have it funded. By the way, The United States hit $37,000,000,000,000 in debt. Go USA. We're number one. Thank you very much. We'll be here all week. $37,000,000,000,000, sir.
You Swedes cannot keep up with that.
[00:52:25] Kenshin:
No. Nice number.
[00:52:27] McIntosh:
Oh, I laugh because if I don't, I cry. Oh, and I did wanna mention this. I mentioned last week that France was talking about Bitcoin mining, as a government essentially, and they have now rejected that. So I'm gonna reserve my comments to myself. And, yeah, there we go. I think that was it for the news for this week, Kenshin. There really wasn't a whole lot, and there were no software updates.
[00:53:01] Kenshin:
Oh, but I told you that price go up. That's good news. But you told me price went down. Next section, Kenshin. You're jumping the gun. Oh,
[00:53:10] McIntosh:
well, I'm Alright. Right to go. And since you've already let that out by the way, you did not update the euros. So But you what's the pricing difference? As we record right now, I'm gonna update this in real time. It's $1.00 $7,700. Oh, we're both doing it at the same time. That's creepy. $1.00 $7,700. And how many we got in euros? Yeah.
[00:53:35] Kenshin:
€92,300.
[00:53:37] McIntosh:
So we are up for the week, certainly. We're approaching all time high territory again. And our price last June was 61,804. So we are up a modest 73.3% in the last year. Wow. Go ahead and do the market cap, and then I'll talk about what you mentioned
[00:54:00] Kenshin:
just a second ago. Yeah. I still need to point out that in euros, we are not so close to the all time high. I know. We're just slackers. So there is there is a discrepancy there between dollars and euros lately. Yeah? Okay. Market cap, Bitcoin market cap $2,100,000,000,000. Gold's market cap $23,100,000,000,000. That brings us to 9.2%.
[00:54:31] McIntosh:
Okay. Yeah. Very stable. And our fees right now sit at about two sets per vbyte with 20 megabytes of unprocessed transactions. So still very, very, very low. I do wanna take a couple of minutes. I think we've got some time and talk actually about the last week because what did I say? I I was listening to the podcast. I was actually testing the streaming, and I know I literally heard myself say it. I said, we're not gonna go below a 100,000. And Kenshin believed me. Oh, no. And he could not believe when I told him earlier we went below a 100,000. So clearly, Kenshin is not checking his Bitcoin clock enough. No. Apparently not. No. Kenshin has a life, and he's off doing other things.
So that's good for you. You do not have to check the price every hour or every day. So, seriously, good job. Oh, I see. So here's what happened. I'm gonna go back one week real quick.
[00:55:37] Kenshin:
June 21.
[00:55:39] McIntosh:
Yeah. So when things heated up over in Iran, essentially, we started looking really weak, and then we dumped all the way down actually to $98,300 according to this chart. But we spraying right back the next day. So there it is. We did go below a 100,000, but we have marched up over, well, 10,000, basically, since then.
[00:56:07] Kenshin:
So so what do you need to do now?
[00:56:11] McIntosh:
Are you asking what my penance is? I don't know. Double my DCA? I I don't know. That's good for you. I tell y'all all the time. Bitcoin does what it wants to do, and I don't it definitely was related to, you know, the Israel, Iran throwing missiles back at each other, and then The US got involved. There's no doubt about that. But it it in my opinion, it has shown its resiliency. Instead of taking a dive like it would have in 2017 and probably 2021, when this kind of thing, if it had happened back then and staying down there for weeks or more, You know, it did go down.
Not a whole lot. Less, what, 10% roughly from the all time high. Am I doing that right? No. I'm not. A 20%. But it has popped right back up, and it is honestly looking like it's about to break all time high again. So
[00:57:16] Kenshin:
We're we're close to somewhere. Yeah.
[00:57:19] McIntosh:
I know. Retail's gonna kick in at some point, Kenshin. You're right. We're going on vacation here. See, that's the top two. Europeans don't do your share during that's what it is. Yeah. See? Yeah. We're over here working our butts off buying Bitcoin, and you're sitting on the beach somewhere. I
[00:57:41] Kenshin:
yeah. Be patient for September.
[00:57:44] McIntosh:
You know I'm teasing you. Alright. Yeah.
[00:57:48] Kenshin:
But it's true?
[00:57:49] McIntosh:
No. The summer is historically I alright, I am not making any predictions. Bitcoin is gonna do exactly what Bitcoin wants to do. I will maintain before the end of the year. We we have definitely not seen our all time highs, and I stick with what I have been saying, which is one fifty plus. I I think that's what I've been saying.
[00:58:13] Kenshin:
Yeah. And my prediction is we will overtake Microsoft by the end of the year. So And it feels a bit
[00:58:22] McIntosh:
let's see. Hopefully This this fall could be wild. But, hey. Now I'm starting to sound like one of those YouTube channels trying to get subscribers. So I won't do that. No. But so What do you mean, please? What do we always say here, though, Kenshin? I will wrap this little segment up with this. What do we say? DCA. It's actually stop worrying about the price. Just buy the Bitcoin. We're going up in the long term, so just do it. Don't wait for it to go below a 175, whatever number somebody's throwing out. There's price people still saying 58,000. Yeah. Okay. And when the moon Oh, that was the question, wasn't it?
K. It was one of the questions you made. Later. If we're just purely gonna speculate, guys, I am actually I I I I guess I'm more optimistic for the summer than you are, Kinshine. We'll see.
[00:59:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. No. I'm We may we may make a
[00:59:25] McIntosh:
prediction now. I still think we're gonna break above one ten solidly, and then we're hitting one twenty and one thirty before the end of the summer before we even really get started. But I, you know, I could be wrong. I probably am. Do not clip that out and say that I said nothing.
[00:59:43] Kenshin:
Oh.
[00:59:45] McIntosh:
He he never wants to make a prediction. I did. I just did. Well, I made one last week and got proven wrong, so, you know, I should learn. Yeah. Alright. Look. We gotta wrap this up, friends. Oh, land's sakes. Someone clip this, please. You clip it. You you you clip it. You can clip it and put it on. I mean, I'm not You're not paying me. I'm not paying you enough. Oh god. Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Satoshi Splebs is a value for value podcast just like we were talking about earlier, and we do support podcast two point o. No ads, no sponsorships, just honest Bitcoin content. I deliberately avoid sponsorships because even if I do love a company, taking their money would influence my opinion.
What if something goes wrong with that company? I would probably hesitate to warn you, and I have seen that many, many times in the podcast world. Instead, I ask, are you getting value from the show? Support it through time, talent, or treasure. Help with the chapters, or future projects like our chat room. Stream some sets, boost with messages, even a 100 sets saying great show or you suck. I'll read it either way. There's a whole list of podcast two point o apps at podcastapps.com that support independent Bitcoin media like us. If you like the content, I would love it if you would tell your friends about the podcast. That is the best way for us to continue to grow.
This week's music, once again, is live for tomorrow by Kazuki Tokaji. You should listen to it at 1.6 speed like, send it Mike said. Any boost or streaming during that song will go straight to the artist. I cannot imagine what that song sounds like at 1.6.
[01:01:40] Kenshin:
I will try it. Yeah. So thanks for being here, everyone, and the live audience as well. We hope this has been helpful. We would love to hear from you, and you can find all our content at satoshis.plebs.com. And stay humble, and have a great weekend.
[01:02:03] McIntosh:
We'll talk to you all soon.
[01:02:05] Kenshin:
Bye bye.
Introduction and Episode Overview
Current Events and Personal Updates
Listener Boosts and Feedback
Listener Q&A: Podcasting Journey and Coding Projects
Security Practices for Bitcoin Holders
Bitcoin and Nostr: Future of Post-State Society
Running Bitcoin Nodes on Mobile Devices
Value for Value Model in Podcasting
Nostr's Potential Disappearance and Lessons Learned
Bitcoin Adoption Tipping Points
Corporate Bitcoin Accumulation and Its Impact
Future of Bitcoin Transactions and Network Usage
Ease of Running Bitcoin Nodes for Everyone
Hyper Bitcoinization: Gradual or Sudden?
Bitcoin Market Update and Predictions
