Music Credits
Protofunk by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4247-protofunk
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Ethernight Club by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/7612-ethernight-club
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Kenshin and McIntosh discuss our deepest, darkest fears - about Bitcoin that is! Even though we have both been involved in Bitcoin for years we have doubt and fears just like anyone else. So of course, being the Satoshi's Plebs Podcast , we discuss them. In addition, there are some fears that many new people have that we dive into as well.
Nostr Zapathon
We are going to give away a total of 42,000 satoshis as a celebration of the new Satoshi's Plebs Podcast Nostr Page. After this episode is release we will posting a new note on the show's account. Anyone who comments on our post AND reposts it will get zapped 210 sats. As an added bonus - the first 21 people who comment/repost will get 420 sats!!!
The nip-05 for the Podcast account is [email protected]
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
February 12th, 2025: 97,=587 USD | 94,100 EUR
Block Height at Time of Recording
883,480
News and Notes
The Human Rights Foundation Awarded All 11 Bitcoin Development Bounties
Shamir's secret sharing
Bullish.Space Shop of a Satoshi's Pleb listener - Great products!
Software Updates
Alby Go v1.9.0: Push Notifications, Pay 0-amount Invoices & More
Proton Wallet Is Now Available to All Users on Android, iOS, and Web
Primal v2.1: NWC Support for Primal Wallet and Web App
Episode Page
https://satoshis-plebs.com/episode-197
Music Credits
Protofunk by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4247-protofunk
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Ethernight Club by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/7612-ethernight-club
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Website
https://satoshis-plebs.com
Podcasting 2.0 Apps available at http://podcastapps.com and Value4Value information page available here: https://value4value.info
McIntosh can be reached by email at [email protected] and on Twitter at @McIntoshFinTech. His mastodon handle is @[email protected] and his Nostr. Kenshin can be reached on Twitter at @kenshin_ninja or on Nostr. Kenshin’s email is [email protected]. You can also follow the Satoshi’s Plebs podcast account on Nostr. We are looking forward to hearing from you!
We are looking forward to hearing from you!
[00:00:00]
McIntosh:
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is February, and this is episode one ninety seven of Satoshi's Plebs. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin. And today's episode is our Bitcoin fears.
[00:00:44] McIntosh:
Alright, Kenshin. We'll get into it in just a minute, but, man, it's been a week. Let's go ahead and talk about the price and this kind of thing. I I know y'all are like, man, Macintosh, it's always a week. What is your problem, dude? It really has been a week this week. Our price as we start to record is $97,587. And what do we have in euros, Kenshin?
[00:01:08] Kenshin:
We have €94,100.
[00:01:11] McIntosh:
I keep telling you, man. Y'all need to catch up. Come on. It it's us when €1,000 up in the last hour. It has been kind of I I don't know. This this market well, for months now, really, it's it's just been kinda weird. It's just been this choppy sideways thing. So weird. Even though we've made some all time highs a couple of times in it. Right? We were at one zero nine here not too long ago, a couple of weeks maybe. Yep. I'd have to look at the chart, but yeah. But it's essentially just been in this box between 90 and a hundred k, and it's just well, that's like a ping pong. Anyways, we're at block height eight eight three four eight zero. The, the blocks keep rolling in, and, actually, it looks like we're gonna have a downward difficulty adjustment, although we are relatively new into this. I don't know what's going on with the hash power. I don't with the mining.
I we we just roll with it, but right now, we're showing almost a 7% downward adjustment. We just had an upward adjustment of almost 6%, five point six one % just a couple of days ago. So maybe it's just too early, and that's gonna go, you know, closer to zero or whatever. But right now, we are looking at a significant downward adjustment, coming up on February 24. You wanna talk about our mempool?
[00:02:37] Kenshin:
Right. Our mempool is at two two and two. So you only need two sets per v byte to send a transaction even Very cool. Next minute if there is a block at the next like, 25¢
[00:02:50] McIntosh:
or something.
[00:02:51] Kenshin:
Yeah. So it's really good. Less than a hundred megabytes of unprocessed, transactions around 5,000 or something. Transactions in the mempool in the mempool dot space mempool. And, I and I say that because there is a few different mempools. Of course. Yes. Of course.
[00:03:15] McIntosh:
Gosh. We don't wanna be spreading false information. I'm sorry. I act like there's one. And as we've said from time to time, there's, of course, many, many memples. But they all represent the same thing, really. So I actually don't view it as something that's incorrect. We just it's like a virtual memble. So I'm a little jealous, Kenshin. I gotta tell you. I gotta be honest. So we've written out our notes about, you know, our stuff, and I know what you're about to talk about. And I'm jealous because you're learning some fun new stuff. So why don't you tell everybody about it? Well, with,
[00:03:54] Kenshin:
with the AI recently, I started using it more and more, chat gbt and now my self hosted AI stuff. I start using Python again. So for once, I don't abandon my ideas and my projects because I don't know Python well enough. I just go to Chativity. I ask, I want Yeah. Python program for this, and I can do it. And I can read it because I know enough to understand it.
[00:04:23] McIntosh:
Right. I think you and I are very similar in that. I am no Python expert, but I can read it. I can understand what it's saying, unlike, say, Rust, which looks like gobbledygook to me most of the time. And and frankly, both chat GPT and deep seek both do an excellent job with Python in particular.
[00:04:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exactly. So I end up with with things I can use. Mhmm. So I made a few Noister bots now, and I improved them a lot in the past week. I made even a bot to create a brand new user from the start, like we talked in the previous episodes, to make automatically a coin nose account for a user, generate a lightning address and everything, at the same time, generate a nostril profile with that information and populate that nostril profile with a profile name and description and the lightning address from coinos and everything. What do you mean by nostril profile? So so when you do a coin os Mhmm. Account, you get the lightning address and you get, pair an aster pair key. Right? Okay. Right. So you get your public key and your private key. Mhmm. But if you go on Oster and you enter that private key, it it's basically very empty. You don't even have a proper name.
It's just it's just an n pub. It's just the public key visible there. Mhmm. So with what I did with Python, I just say the username that you used on Coinos to register, use the same username to show us a Nostr name. So when you go on Nostr, then you see, okay, that is a person who has that name, and it has that description under the name, and it has that lightning address that is the coinos that was just generated. So it looks like a proper profile, set to use for a person. So the onboarding happening automatically. Yeah. It's just the press of the button, run it, and it gets a random username from the BIP 39 Italian words list.
[00:06:47] McIntosh:
Now I'm sorry, Kinshen. Yeah. I didn't know you were Italian. I'm a quarter Italian. Are you? That's true. Yeah. I didn't actually know that. No.
[00:07:00] Kenshin:
Okay. My grand my grandmother.
[00:07:03] McIntosh:
Or maybe you told me. I apologize if I didn't remember. No. I don't think I told you. It's, a Do you know what a Heinz fifty seven is?
[00:07:11] Kenshin:
No. No.
[00:07:17] McIntosh:
I'm not that Italian. Do you know what a mongrel is? No. No. No. This isn't Italian. This is American. Sorry. Do you know what a mongrel is? Like, a dog that's like all these different breeds. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's me.
[00:07:31] Kenshin:
Okay? Okay. So
[00:07:34] McIntosh:
in addition to my my ancestor, my namesake McIntosh, who was he was half Scotch and half Creek Indian. I also have a, I gotta get all this right. Hold on. Irish, Dutch, English, another kind of Indian. And then my children have more, which I'm not gonna go into, but, like, they it it ends up I think that's maybe five for me and then, like, seven or eight for them. So, it's kind of a mess. A Heinz fifty seven is like a a mix. I I I don't know. That's sorry. That was kind of obtuse. I I know I know I shouldn't say things like that talking to a to an international audience, but but a mutt, a mongrel, not a pure breed. That's this guy.
Right?
[00:08:34] Kenshin:
I'm the same.
[00:08:36] McIntosh:
Well, yeah. That's cool, though. So sorry. I we're completely off track. That looks really cool, though. So my week, much let much more boring.
[00:08:46] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:08:48] McIntosh:
Hold on just a second. There's a saying, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. I'm I'm really dull right now. I told y'all I've been working on this project. It finishes, so we're recording on Wednesday. Actually, when you get this on Friday morning, my project is supposed to be like, we complete this major milestone. Unfortunately, the project won't be over, but I'll be able to breathe for just a second before I go off racing to the next milestone. And in the meantime, I mean, honestly, I've just been working my little butt off. And then my better half, my wife, she didn't abandon me. I I was gonna say she abandoned me, but that's not what happened, and I don't wanna be spreading any rumors.
She did go off on a on a trip. And so I'm having to do, parenting, extra parenting duties and deal with this project. And, man, it's just got my life turned upside down, I'll be honest. So that's really it for me. I have not had time to go back and work on my code at all. My lightning node setup that we talked about two weeks ago, I think. Alright. I haven't touched it. I would like to get that finished, but, it will it will probably be next week before I can even look at it, to be honest, if I can even get to it then. Because, unfortunately, I have more deadlines.
That's just the nature of this project. So that's enough about that. I think I probably put everybody to sleep. So we probably just need to move right on. But we have some exciting news now. Yes. We do. I've been this is you you go ahead. I I am. I'm pumped. I'm excited. This is awesome.
[00:10:39] Kenshin:
Okay. So we want to, create a Zapathon on NoStar. And what is a Zapathon? I think we touched on that before. So it's we're gonna give away, a total of 42,000 Satoshis. We will create a new account for the Satoshis Playb podcast on Nostr, and we will create, note on Nostr, like, what do we call it on Twitter? Like a tweet or whatever. Right? Right. A post. And whoever, comments and reposts that note will receive 210 sats from us until we're out of money. Right. And the first twenty one people who comment and repost will get 420.
[00:11:38] McIntosh:
So they get a bonus. So you wanna be first. Yes. And we're gonna do this until we run out of our 42,000 satoshis. So Correct. Ken, Shane and I are gonna split this up. We'll have two different wallets, our my account, his account. And, actually, that works really well because he's on let's see. You're on later than I am most of the time. You get up as as, you know, it's eight hours ahead of me, essentially, or whatever it is. Six hours. So for those in Europe, he can kinda handle that, and I can handle the people, posting in America.
And, you know, there won't be a a lag time.
[00:12:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. I I get the good morning Europe people.
[00:12:25] McIntosh:
You get the good morning US people. As I'm laying down in bed two nights ago, at, like, 03:00 in the morning because I'm working on this project, Kenshin's posting good morning, and I said, good night. I literally posted that in bed. I probably like that, but it was just too funny because I just happened to glance at it. Yeah. I'd already I had to take melatonin when I'm doing this this all this work like this because it really messes up my sleep schedule. Melatonin's, it's actually a natural substance, and it it helps you go to sleep. So I take the two melatonin gummies or whatever they are, and it takes me about twenty minutes to go to sleep after that. Otherwise, I just sit there wide awake, exhausted because I'm still thinking about stuff because I've got all this stuff in my head. Right? So I had taken my melatonin already, and I just I think I was still reading my, I've been reading the Lord of the Rings. I finished it up a couple days ago, but that may have been, like, the night that I finished, and I I happened to flip over to to Noster. It was just kinda funny. Anyway, maybe you had to be there.
Yeah. I saw it. Comedian, Kenshin. Sorry. I tried. But I saw it. I was surprised. I I thought, yeah. That's a late night. It was I think it was 03:00 in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. So that would have been maybe, I think you're six hours ahead of me. Was it, like, 09:00 in the morning? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. My
[00:14:02] Kenshin:
now I switched it, to say good morning at ten.
[00:14:06] McIntosh:
And that was not actually the latest I stood I've I stayed up this week. There was one night I went to bed at four. Mhmm. That's it's just I'm not young anymore, and this stuff, it's getting to me.
[00:14:23] Kenshin:
Alright. Okay. But, Julia, one more one more thing. Mhmm. They can, follow us. Our new account, has the the NEIP zero five address or the Lightning address, called satoshisplebs,1word,@coin0s.io.
[00:14:42] McIntosh:
Right. So that's the easiest way. Coin o s dot I o last week. You could go back and listen to that episode. You can walk yourself through that whole setup if you want to use them. And if you're new to the setup, if you're new to Nostr, I would recommend that you do this. Okay? When I got involved in Nostr, it's been more than a year ago now, I had to generate my in pub and my private keys by command line, which was fun, and, you know, it worked. But this is a lot easier. And you can do that, and then follow us. And we're not talking about, just to be clear, every post. We will put out one specific post. And when you read the post, it will tell you if you comment, you'll get zapped. Okay?
So don't just I mean, you're welcome to follow us. You're welcome to comment. I hope you do, but we're not going to just start zapping every comment. We can't. We we will not be able to afford that. This is a decent amount, of of sats. In fact, in future earning potentials, this is actually a really large amount of money. So
[00:16:01] Kenshin:
I imagine my grandchilds will sit around in twenty years, and they will be saying It may not be twenty years. Yeah. But it's gonna be like, how much were you zapping random people in no store? 20,000 subs? It's gonna be mind blowing.
[00:16:18] McIntosh:
Yep. But that's, like, four months salary.
[00:16:23] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:16:25] McIntosh:
Yeah. No. It's it's true though. And it's interesting. I wanna throw this out here. I was gonna do it later, but I'll just go ahead and say this real quick. I saw this thing on Twitter by and I don't remember who it was. Maybe it was Adam back from, Kenshin, you always had to help me out. Is it Blockstream or block? Yeah. It's Blockstream. Looks yeah. Who's been involved in Bitcoin forever, and he actually, he was mentioned in the white paper. That's a crazy thought, but it's true. His HashCash thing Yes. Yes. That was actually mentioned in the white paper. Pretty cool. Of work. Proof of work. Right. Anyways, he showed this chart, and I think it was him. But he showed this chart, and he said, basically, in the sixteen years that Bitcoin, has been around, we've gone from zero to where we're at today.
And by his calculations, if we simply continue the same growth pattern that we have in ten years, not twenty, not a hundred in ten years, we will be not at $1,000,000 per Bitcoin, which is kind of I've started I mean, we're at one tenth of that now. I mean, frankly, if it's not this epoch, if it's not this cycle, it will be the next cycle. Almost assuredly, we'll be at a million dollars per Bitcoin. But let's say it takes three. That would be twelve years or, no. That'd be eight years from now. He says if we just follow what we've done for the last sixteen years, we'll be at $10,000,000 in ten years.
I'll let that sink in. Yep. Alright?
[00:18:13] Kenshin:
So Yeah. You know what's my favorite to look at? The Bitcoin issuance is the last Bitcoin to be generated will take forty years.
[00:18:26] McIntosh:
Four I saw that you saw the same thing I did. You had to have. This came out today. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Forty years to generate the final Bitcoin. The energy of all of those miners, which God knows how many miners there will be at that point because we are literally talking about one hundred and almost forty years in the future. No. Wait. You said so a hundred years in the future. Right? Yeah. I don't know how many miners they will be, but they will all be working to mine that last Bitcoin. Yeah. How much is that Bitcoin going to be worth? I my mind simply cannot comprehend that. Yeah. Okay. Trillions probably. Yeah.
[00:19:11] Kenshin:
But the it's gonna be from the year February until the year 02/1940.
[00:19:17] McIntosh:
Right. I know it ends at 2140. Yeah. So it's forty years before that it starts. And and the funny thing is people are so worried about the security budget for Bitcoin. Like, every time that that transactions go down, like, right now, And when you mine a Bitcoin block, you get the block itself. So that's what? 3.125 now plus a transaction fee. The these fees that we pay to send the transaction, those go to the miner who mines the block. They're not very much. It's like point o one five or something Bitcoin right now, or I think that's actually, I can look at mempool. I'll tell you. Point o
[00:20:05] Kenshin:
three.
[00:20:05] McIntosh:
Okay. So that one's a little higher, but yeah. Yeah. Here's point o three, point o two eight. So I'm I'm off. Yeah. There's a point o two one. Yeah. So they're quite low, and everybody's like, oh my gosh. How are they gonna pay for the mining and this blah blah blah? It'll work out. It'll be okay. It will work out. I promise you. When you have the entire world competing for forty years for 1 Bitcoin.
[00:20:37] Kenshin:
I mean, it it's not a long time ago that it was 50 Bitcoin per reward block reward. And now we're at three, and it's still profitable to do it. So
[00:20:47] McIntosh:
Fortunately, I don't think I ever saw this site when it was live, but I have seen this site on Twitter or whatever a number of times. When Bitcoin first came out, when they were trying to get it spread out to enough people to make this whole thing work, there was a website. It was the Bitcoin faucet or whatever. You'd go there. It would give you 5 Bitcoin. It would give you 5 Bitcoin.
[00:21:16] Kenshin:
It's craziness.
[00:21:17] McIntosh:
Okay. Anyways, we will step back a little bit. You just gotta think long term. That's it. What's our topic? Our Bitcoin fears. And and to be honest, Kenshin, this was his idea. And he threw it out to me, and I'm like, what? That's silly. We don't have any fears. And then I started thinking about it. And Ken Sham was like, oh, no. I've got and he'll talk about these. This, this, and this, whatever. And I'm like, wait. What? And then I start, and I've jotted down a couple. I could probably do some more, and I don't know. We'll just kinda see where this goes. But, yeah, even those of us so I've been involved in Bitcoin since 2013.
Alright. I bought my first Bitcoin at $300, sadly, and then I I traded it away. But, you know, even those of us who've been in this business for a long time, we still there's still fears. So let's talk about let's be honest. Mhmm. Because I'm always trying to be honest on this podcast, so let's let's be honest. Yes. So, let's talk about these common fears first. Right? So these are things that you kinda hear out in the public a lot. So
[00:22:41] Kenshin:
Yeah. What if they ban Bitcoin? I think that's the most So we've tried that.
[00:22:47] McIntosh:
First of all, I would say that. Yeah. Two things. We we saw China arguably banned Bitcoin mining. I it it did happen to a large extent. A large amount of hash rate was shut down within a very short period of time. And I remember I was not mining then, unfortunately. But, was it 2021? I think it was. Yeah. Well, it was 2021. The hash price, what a miner gets paid for, essentially for hash, for power compute power, just went astronomical. It was nuts what people were the people who were left online, what they were getting paid. And you know what that incentivized? Either new people came online or those people from China who had to shut down, they moved in some cases to, I wanna say, Kyrgyzstan.
There's two countries right there that start with k. And and frankly, sadly, I I continually get them mixed up. But one of the, countries there in Central Asia had very cheap power, very lax regulations, and a significant percentage of those miners actually moved there. A lot of them moved to Texas because Texas had cheap power and good regulations and all this kind of stuff. So you saw this migration over a course of six months, out of China, and I would argue that the only thing that that's done is hurt China. Now it's hurt the Chinese people, but it's hurt China, the country, just as much.
Okay? And it didn't do a thing to Bitcoin. It enriched some people, and some people, you know, they had to lose money when they were moving servers around and this kind of thing. Mhmm. Could a country Kenshin, could you see actually, do you know of any countries offhand that do ban Bitcoin? I think I know of one, and I'll say it in just a second. Russia has banned areas. Now they banned mining, not cryptocurrency or Bitcoin, like, transactions or whatever. But, yes, we've talked about that. Yeah. It's easy. It's relatively easy to ban mining if you're serious about it. Right? We've seen this. I mean, Venezuela took over a bunch of stuff. This has happened in a number of places.
Let's be honest. It's in it seems to be in the more autocratically, run places, shall we say. But I do know of one country where crypto is illegal. I wanna double check this real quick. Okay. Maybe I'm I think what I'm thinking of is mining. So I was talking about Nepal, and I I do you're not allowed to mine. I I know they had some issues a couple of years now. Maybe it has changed. It doesn't look like they really have a ban on it. But I remember, like, in 2020, '20 '20 '1, they had some issues with, like, scammers coming in. And they were scamming the the Nepalese people, out of their money, in these crazy crypto things. And the government just kinda came down really heavy and said no crypto, period.
[00:26:28] Kenshin:
Mhmm.
[00:26:29] McIntosh:
Because I've looked at, you know, potentially kinda doing there what we've what people are doing in Africa, building Bitcoin mines and helping bring power to some of these remote areas. I've talked about it on here a number of times, and I did not know about that until I started researching that. But, yeah, maybe that's not the case anymore or well, yeah. I wanna say that.
[00:26:54] Kenshin:
So Yeah. In Investopedia, they mention China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, and Bolivia. I don't know I think Bolivia is the mining.
[00:27:09] McIntosh:
I can't really speak for the others. I don't wanna get too bogged down into this. Actually, no. It says the use of use trading and possession of digital assets has been prohibited since 2014. Okay. Well, I don't know. That's unfortunate. Yeah. It's tough. Can a country tell you not to own crypto? Yes. Can they make your life extremely difficult if you choose to continue to do that? Yes. Can Bitcoin specifically and I'm not gonna talk about the rest of the garbage, but can Bitcoin specifically be shut down at this point? No way. There are 20,000 nodes.
There are a large number of miners. I really need to look up that number. I should have it on top of my head. There it is scattered all over the world even if The United States, which I would argue will not at this point, but let me come back to that. Even if The United States said no more Bitcoin, it's illegal, would it hurt? Yes. Would it stop Bitcoin? No. Okay. Now I will argue that United States, when they legalized the ETFs, which was roughly one year ago as you brought up earlier today, which we need to talk about that for just a second. Because of that, that was kinda putting their stamp of approval on it. It is integrated into our financial systems now.
Now I know that some of you think maybe the government could do some kind of seizure or whatever. That is a possibility. They could go to Kraken, Coinbase, these exchanges, and basically do that out of them very easily. Okay? But just I don't see that happening. It's something I'm gonna continue to monitor, of course, but I just don't think that's a possibility at this point. And and the cat's out of the bag. I mean, Wall Street wants this stuff. That's what the truth is. And the more it gets the deeper it gets into the financial systems, of The United States specifically, the less chance we have of, you know, congress saying you can't own Bitcoin.
It's just not gonna happen because too many people will be upset about it. So I guess maybe that one's kinda fifty fifty because it certainly is possible, but I also think the more Bitcoin grows, the less likely it's possible. And countries like Bolivia will eventually be forced to come on board because they will see countries like El Salvador whose economy is booming, who's turning themselves around. And I think in part, that's because of Bitcoin. Countries like Bhutan out there mining Bitcoin. But Bhutan, from the numbers that I've seen, they have more sats per citizen in their global in their sovereign fund than any other country. And that is just I always that just makes me excited because they're a ridiculously small country up in the Himalayas.
Right? But they're using what they have to their advantage, so more power to them. Enough about that. Sorry. We do not want this to be a two hour episode. Macintosh does not have the strength. Do you have anything you wanted to add to that? Oh, you've got a website there. I think you you just added.
[00:30:56] Kenshin:
Yeah. They have some details. But yeah. Not more on that. I hear other comments, what if the value drops.
[00:31:06] McIntosh:
Okay.
[00:31:07] Kenshin:
But I I always say, what if anything's value drops? Everything is valued based on human perception, even gold in that sense. So
[00:31:17] McIntosh:
All time highs, by the way. Yeah.
[00:31:20] Kenshin:
Exactly. So
[00:31:22] McIntosh:
We do see drops in in other things. Right? Mhmm. I can give you, one example right at the top of my head. Real estate. 02/2008 here in The United States, we were kind of at the top of the market in real estate. And all this baloney about people not being able to pay their mortgages kind of hit the fan, and it dumped and it dumped really hard. And then it took basically until COVID took so 2020 or whatever to reach those same levels. So Mhmm. So it dropped, and then it kind of slowly edged its way back up. And then it's taken off since COVID. But all of that time in between roughly 12 or so, you were underwater if you were owning a house.
Now there has been no point no point in Bitcoin's history if you held a, a Bitcoin for more than four years that you've been under that you've been underwater. Does that make sense? I I don't know if I'm saying that right. Right? Yeah. So I may buy at the top of the market. I actually know a person who bought one Bitcoin. I'm trying to figure out when this was. It it was the top of the last market, so it was 2021. They spent roughly $50,000 on this Bitcoin. And then they sat there for the next four years, essentially, underwater, but they're not underwater at this point. In fact, they're well above it, and they'll never be underwater ever again unless Bitcoin does something that it has never done before.
And as it becomes more and more integrated into the financial systems of the world, the chances of a seventy, eighty, 90 percent dump are far less likely. Because Michael Saylor, ladies and gentlemen, wants your Bitcoin, and he'll be buying it. If it gets back below, say, $70,000, he'll just shove all the he'll shove everything he's got on the table, and he's got a lot.
[00:33:48] Kenshin:
He he buys nonstop, it seems, every two weeks. Yeah.
[00:33:52] McIntosh:
So it is it volatile? Yes. And I've heard great discussions by people who are smarter than I am about why that is, why that has to be, and how that's a benefit. You just have to look at this in a medium to long term. Stop worrying about the price this week, this month, this quarter, or even this year. I am buying stuff for one, not well, one epoch. So four years or eight years or twelve years down the road, I'm not buying it for right now. Mhmm. K? The the smartest thing I ever did was when I stopped buying and selling my Bitcoin, trying to catch a trade and make a buck, and instead, I bought it and put it into my seed signer.
And I'm not mad at anybody in case it sounds like I am. I'm mad at myself because I wasted a lot of time doing that. Okay. I was stupid because I thought I was so smart, and instead, I lost I don't even wanna think about how much money. Okay? Learn from my mistakes. I've told you all that time and time again. Anyways Everybody everybody has to go through that. But yeah. We do. But you don't have to do it as long as I did. I was I was exceptionally not smart. So if the value drops, I say smash buy more. That's what I say. And I did it when Russia invaded the Ukraine. Okay?
Bitcoin hit a bottom of $16,000, and I bought because I knew it was gonna go down, and I knew it was gonna go back up because I've done this long enough to know that these kind of things happen. So that's what I did, and that was, five x ago. So Yes. Right? We're we're five x from that 16,000. Just stop and think. And that was not that long ago. Two years? Two and a half years? Two years? Is it Two years. It is actually seven. It's exactly two years. Okay. December 21. Yeah. Anyways, that's that's what I do when the value drops. I just buy more because it's not for me. So the third one that we've got here, which I think is actually I think this may actually be the one that people are most worried about. Yeah. You know? What if I lose the private key?
Bitcoiners talk about self sovereignty all the time. Oh, you should own your own keys. You should keep it on your thing. And, you know, we talk about seed signer. Right? And I keep my seed signer stuff, and and it's right here. My stuff is not on Coinbase. It's not on Kraken. None of that. But what if I lose my private key? Well, it does put responsibility on your shoulders. That's the if you own your own Bitcoin, and you own your own keys, you are responsible for those keys, and you need to be aware of that. And if you're talking about $10, well, then that's one level. If you're talking about a thousand dollars even, I would start to seriously consider how I manage those keys.
Do I keep them in a safe? Do I have a copy of them? Do who do I keep that other copy with? Because a thousand dollars is one thing, but ten years from now, if it's a hundred x and it gets to 10,000,000, that thousand is now a hundred thousand dollars Right? So you treat it right now like it will be in ten years, And then it starts to make a lot of sense. So what are the some of the ways, Kenshin, that people can keep their keys safe?
[00:38:06] Kenshin:
Well, the the easy way is, first of all, I would say to to make it into a engrave it in metal. Okay. In a metal plate, I would say. And then have it in a safe place, somewhere that you know is not easily accessible. And if the house burns down, then it's protected by the metal itself. Need to think about that. Okay. I would say a more advanced way is to have a multisig setup. Then you have at least three keys, and you need two to sign. Or maybe you have five keys, and you need three to sign. And then you split those keys up.
[00:38:48] McIntosh:
If you have a family, okay, and you have a decent amount of money in Bitcoin, then you need to be considering that. Okay? Because, for example, I'm married. What happens if I die? Right? How is my wife going to deal with that? You have to think through all of these things and a multi signature setup like we're talking about, even if it's two or three, is far safer than a lot. Now is it more complex? Yeah. Yes. But I think most people could handle it if they actually spent more than five minutes on it, to be honest. Mhmm. Right? Some of the devices and things that are out there that you can do a multisig setup are getting pretty simple.
And a multisig setup, by the way, is one situation where I can say, oh, you got a cold card or you got Casa, whatever their product is. You can mix that in with a seed signer, and that's not a problem. And then that actually protects you because not to pick on a cold card, but what happens if cold card something happens with it? Well, that's only one key out of the three. So this might actually be a situation where I wouldn't necessarily even recommend just using seed signer for all three of those signing devices. I might, but that's my choice. I might actually recommend just using different ones just to spread the probabilities around. Right. Spread the risk. Thank you. Yeah. A multi device multi sig.
[00:40:40] Kenshin:
Yes. That's Yep. That's the ideal setup. A bit advanced, but I think it's worth it also. And a friend of mine, he suggested even, like, instead of making backups of the individual keys let's say if you have three keys and then you make a backup of each, then you end up with six Right. Physical backups. Mhmm. It's even better to have six or seven different keys, and three are still the sign in keys. Right. So three three out of seven or something like that. Then you have a list. Four out of seven.
[00:41:13] McIntosh:
No. You can do you can do whatever you want. You can do six out of seven, three out of seven. I did not know that. I thought it had to be at least half of it. No. You can do it. Yeah. And that way, if you lose a key, it's not that big a deal. I would also look. I mean, we are literally talking about life changing money. And if you've got a hundred thousand, $2.03, $4.05, a million dollars in there, you probably ought to every six months take the time to make sure you know what you're doing with this. Okay? Yes. It takes time. Yes. It takes more responsibility.
But we have talked on here endlessly about the issues that you can have with custodians, whether that's a bank or a Bitcoin specific custodian, and I just don't recommend those either. And it's just just do it yourself. Just do it yourself. So, so yeah. I I guess in the simplest case, if you have a single SIG setup, and you lose the private keys, you're like that poor old guy over in England who is digging through the, or trying to dig through the through the town garbage pit to find his hard drive. Right? You've heard this story. I know you have. I have. I remember it. Oh, yes. You have. He his girlfriend threw out the hard drive containing thousands, I guess, of Bitcoin.
Thousands of individual Bitcoins. Right? And when he realized it was too late, it's in the town dump. They know it's there. But the town, he's offering to, like, share with the town, pay for all of this. They won't do it. Like, they need to, like, basically sort all this stuff out and find that hard drive because the hard drive's in there. And the data is probably recoverable. But it's a crazy story. You can look it up. But he had one key. If he'd had a a multisix setup, which this was a long time ago, I don't know when multisix got enabled or whatever, so I I maybe this was prior to that.
You know? But he wouldn't have that problem because and you gotta talk about fire, flood, wind. I don't know. Geographical dispersion, and don't get overwhelmed. Most of us have time to figure this out. Again, if you only have $10 on your Bitcoin wallet, you don't have the same worries as somebody who has a hundred thousand dollars or a couple of million. Right? You're probably going to build up to that. So we do need to move on or this is gonna get to be a really long episode. Yeah. What if somebody comes to my home and steals the private keys?
[00:44:11] Kenshin:
That's my biggest fear, actually.
[00:44:14] McIntosh:
Okay. Well, we'll wrap this into you your set of fears. Yeah. That is a common fear for people. So what are your thoughts on that?
[00:44:23] Kenshin:
Well, my thoughts especially are since I live in Sweden, if someone knows me by name Mhmm. And knows I have Bitcoin, they Google my name, and they literally get the full page, maybe a few pages of Google saying where I live. There are so many how are those called? Like, yellow pages type of websites. There are at least 20 different ones that all describe first thing about me, where I live. So and with the map and everything and other details like, who is my wife and if I have a dog, if I have a car,
[00:45:06] McIntosh:
the license plate that I of privacy? I No. Absolutely
[00:45:10] Kenshin:
none. So my biggest fear is is that that it is trivial for someone to come to my place if they know I have Bitcoin. So I don't talk about Bitcoin publicly. Right. I talked about it a little bit with a couple of colleagues, but that's it. And family members and other Bitcoiners, but that's it.
[00:45:31] McIntosh:
I think that's probably a really smart move on your part.
[00:45:35] Kenshin:
Yeah. And then if someone comes here, I I don't know. I have prepared myself thinking about it, how I would react, And I have even, I haven't set it up completely yet, but my code card has this feature that if you put the wrong password Right. Then it it does a certain action, and it has, like, five or 10 different actions. So it can disable itself or destroy itself automatically, or it can open a second wallet Right. With a small amount Right. That is a real wallet as well Right. And then destroy itself.
[00:46:10] McIntosh:
So there are few ways that. I don't know if they could ever build that in a seed signer or not. I don't think they could just because of the architecture of it. Mhmm. But if you have a device like that where you can do that, I think that's actually a really smart idea. Oh, yeah. I got 500,000 Bitcoin. I I lost the rest of it. You know? I'm a stupid trader. I mean, you ought to see my stuff. It's it's horrible. And, you know, I'm sorry.
[00:46:37] Kenshin:
Here. What what another funny funny thing, we were just talking yesterday with a friend of mine. It's like if you have a very complicated setup, multi sig and stuff Mhmm. And then someone comes and he's like, wait. This can take some time. Right. You need to open all your notebooks, all your notes. Okay. I have this key here. This key here. Geographically separated. Right? Maybe you have adult children
[00:47:05] McIntosh:
and each one of them have a key. Maybe you trust your kids enough to do this. I don't know. But, right, they have keys, and they're all across the country. Yeah. Exactly. Right? One idea I saw, which I'm surprised it actually hasn't gained more traction. Are you familiar with the concept of, like, a time delayed vault? Like, you see them on the doors in, like, a convenience store. Our lot our vault won't open for, you know, whatever, however they word it. In other words, you can't just go in and put in the combo and open up the lock. You can do that with something like I think it's called mini script with Bitcoin.
So you time delay it. So even if you put in the right combination and you go to send a Bitcoin transaction, it won't do it for a certain amount of time, and you can cancel it prior to that. And Mhmm. If you're why would I need to move money out of my cold wallet, my cold storage immediately in most cases. I might have two cold storages. One, if I did need to periodically kinda do that, and then one that's kind of cold, cold storage that you literally had to wait thirty days to get that money out. Yeah. Does it matter if I need to move half a million dollars and it takes thirty days? I can't imagine a scenario where it would. Does that make sense? Yeah. Absolutely.
You can think about these things and and be clever about it.
[00:48:50] Kenshin:
My plan that I want to set up, I haven't done it yet, but I want to do a multisig, give the keys, only have one key here to my place. Key give the other keys to a few family members Mhmm. And tell them I will only call you on a Thursday evening Right. For a transaction. If it's any other time or date, call the police instantly.
[00:49:16] McIntosh:
Right. Right.
[00:49:18] Kenshin:
So I that's my plan for now. Yeah. But I haven't done it yet, but I think that's that's a version of what you say. Yeah.
[00:49:26] McIntosh:
Yeah. It actually is. It's a human version of just what we're saying.
[00:49:31] Kenshin:
Yeah. Mhmm. And there is another way. If you don't want to do multisig for some reason, there is this Shamir's secret sharing. So you take your single signature and you split it in pieces, and then you distribute those pieces.
[00:49:48] McIntosh:
So it becomes like a multisig in a way. Can can you find a so that's an interest I've I think I I may know what you're talking about. It may just have a different name, but can you find a link to that? Yeah. I have it here. And let's put that in the show notes. That's interesting. Yeah. That is not what I've heard it called. I'd maybe we are talking about something different, but you basically split up your your seed phrases or whatever. Right? Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll have to take a look at that. That sounds really cool and relatively easy to implement, I would think. Let's go ahead and keep going with these.
Oh, let me throw out one of mine. I don't wanna keep picking on you. Mine actually center around two things, to be honest. I think I'm being honest about this. I'm not really worried about somebody breaking into my house. Maybe I should. But, in The United States, we have we have, what's called the second amendment, and that means we can we can bear arms. We can own guns. That's different in a lot of places in the world. But in the area that I live in, somebody breaks in your house, you probably will get met with, I don't know, a shotgun. I'm just saying.
So I don't necessarily worry about kind of that so much, but it's also I would say, it's the one of the main reasons why I don't use my real name in all of this online conversation. I mean, that's just privacy. I for one thing, I'm just frankly private, and I don't want people to know my business, for the most part. But yeah. I mean, I guess that's kind of there as well. But I would say I've kinda got two primary things, and then we'll go back to yours. I wanna talk some more about yours as well. I'm not doing I am doing Bitcoin for me, but I am doing Bitcoin for my family. And this is this is something this podcast used to be called generational wealth with cryptocurrency.
Okay? And I called it that very specifically because I view this as something in the long run that can change family's history in a way that nothing else can. We are talking about, like we did ironically earlier in this episode, in 2100, that last forty years, the compute power of the entire world taking forty years to generate that one Bitcoin. The the asset at that point in 2100, we cannot understand what it will be worth. We cannot. And I'm pretty convinced that's where we're going. I see no reason why it won't be like that. And 2100 is only seventy five years from now.
My children's children will certainly be active in that time frame. My grandchildren. I think I said that right. Yeah. Yes. I will not unless I'm over 100 years old, but they will be. So that's what I'm. Will I benefit from this? I mean, I hope so. This is a way to pass on something that is of true value. Okay. And I'm just worried that I don't get enough of that now while I can because when it's $10,000,000 and you're buying your daily DCA, which frankly you should still be doing, it gets so I mean that just think about that. That's a hundred times harder than it is right now to buy Bitcoin. I'm also worried about my friends and my family not getting enough. I'm just going to be a little transparent here.
My a lot of my friends don't understand. They've heard of Bitcoin. They've dabbled in Bitcoin. Maybe so. I know a couple of them have, but they dabbled in crypto. But by and large, they do not understand. And I hope they do before the mass adoption really kicks in. Because, again, it's going to be so much harder when that happens. 21,000,000 Bitcoin, ladies and gentlemen. What does that mean? If you divide it up evenly, only 21,000,000 people in the world could own a Bitcoin. And it will not be even at least not for a long well, it will not be even. That's just the way it works. It doesn't matter how long you wait. There will be people who don't have it, and there will be people who have more than other people because economics.
Okay. But I want my friends and my family to understand what's going on and stop thinking that I'm a little loco when it comes to Bitcoin because they know. I don't talk to them about it constantly, but they know, you know, because I've I'm pretty sure I'm right. I just hope they figure it out before it's too long. So those are those are really kind of my two biggest things. Let's go ahead and you've got some more here.
[00:55:24] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:55:25] McIntosh:
I mean, what else do I have? Could I put one to rest? I mean, honestly Yeah. You you have on here that someone because I think maybe a lot of people think this because of the way that Bitcoin works. You have these seed phrases. Right? There's 12 or 24 seed phrases that you use to kind of unlock your Bitcoin. Your Bitcoin is it's not like in your wallet. You need to understand that. You're really just signing something. Okay? Just the 12 big, seed phrases. Alright? There are more combinations of those 12 characters than there are I think it's atoms in the universe. It's the number is so astronomically high that with the computers that we have today and if they continue to be unless quantum computing becomes an actual thing, and it's not, by the way, so don't freak out on me.
Maybe a hundred years from now, that's a problem, which means we have a hundred years to basically tune the algorithm so that that becomes more difficult. In the meantime, you cannot you just can't guess enough to get those combinations. Okay?
[00:56:52] Kenshin:
For the quantum part Mhmm. There is actually a solution. They just don't implement it on purpose because there's no point to make the code heavier and bigger. Right. Implement it and more complex at this point. Yes. When when it comes out as a real possible threat, they're ready to go.
[00:57:11] McIntosh:
And despite what you may hear on mainstream media, ladies and gentlemen, it is not a threat. And if it were to become one, let's say somebody at IBM created some actual stable quantum computer that could actually do some of this stuff. They're not gonna mess with Bitcoin because it's so difficult. They're gonna break your bank account, which is much easier, and they're gonna steal that money. So when your money comes out of your bank account, then you start worrying about your Bitcoin and a quantum computer.
[00:57:44] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exact I saw that meme actually today. It's like, oh, so you're worried about Bitcoin being cracked, and it shows an image of the bank account with the four digit PIN code Right. And the Bitcoin with it, like, 96 digit code. It's like, what are you?
[00:57:59] McIntosh:
I'll look up the figure, but I've always used 24 seed phrases just because that's just the way I grew up. The longer the password, the better off you were. Yeah. But I saw the figures on 12 recently, and it is stagger. I may actually start using 12 just because it's it's half as much work. It's staggering how many combinations there are just with 12. Maybe we'll talk about that one day. Yeah. We should. Yeah. So I I don't want you to, you know, use a passphrase just like you say. You can use multisig that increases the complexity, but it does make it less vulnerable.
But social engineering is the issue or somebody holding a gun to your head, frankly, or, you know, whatever. A wrench, a $5 wrench attack is what they call it. That's the worry. Not somebody sitting on their PC at home and cracking your seed phrases unless you did something really dumb, like use the same seed phrase 12 times. Okay. It is a password and you need to randomize it. But if you do that properly,
[00:59:12] Kenshin:
you're safe. Mhmm. Okay. Sorry. Correct. And the last one I can say really fast is, again, about Sweden and Europe in general. Mhmm. We've seen how they how sensitive they are with Bitcoin. Yes. And I I had also the experience that when I was, sending a few extra fiat to become Bitcoin, then my bank threatened to close my account. Yeah. Unless I would prove where the funds go. So my bank knows I Mhmm. Did some exchanges with fiat and Bitcoin. And, another bank, when I contact them to open a new account with them, it's one of those Neo banks, as they're called. So they're only digital and modern and everything. So I thought, okay, that that should be a good bank to have an account. And I in the form in the KYC form, I want to be straightforward. I didn't want to be in trouble, like that again. So I said, okay. I might do some transactions with Bitcoin.
And they declined the the Yeah. The application. And then a few months later, I thought, okay, I will try them again. And they declined again. Yeah. And I did mention Bitcoin the second time. And actually, I got a human to talk to me Mhmm. And say, before we saw that you mentioned Bitcoin, now you didn't. Why not? I said, because I don't need you anymore to do Bitcoin transactions. I I got a much better service now. Mhmm. And they said, okay. But you're still declined anyway. But you're still declined. Yeah.
[01:00:57] McIntosh:
The modern banking system is not modern. It's archaic. It is stupid. Personally, it frustrates me virtually every time I walk into a bank, and I'm sorry if you work into a bank if you find that offensive. I the whole KYC thing, ladies and gentlemen, first of all, it really doesn't work. It doesn't deter criminals. It doesn't keep people from laundering money. In fact, the banks are the ones who are laundering the money. And second of all, or third or fourth or whatever, when somebody hacks that bank, which they invariably do, then they steal all your personal information because you have to post it.
It's ludicrous. So now, well, let's say Kraken. Let's say Kraken. Okay? Kraken Coinbase, both in The United States. We have to KYC to use those services. When a hacker hacks their system, they know they're buying Bitcoin or crypto, and they have their name, their address, their phone number, their probably a picture of their driver's license, and a recent picture of their face because you have to sit there and look in the camera and, you know, not use your fingers to give them a salute. Sorry. That was bad. Right?
So I apologize. I'm not normally quite so vindictive, but banks and this kind of stuff just bring it out of me. It's a bad bet. There's nothing good about KYC. There's nothing. The presumption of guilt, the I'm just oh, man. I'm I gotta stop. Ken Shin, stop. Stop me. Stop me. Alright.
[01:02:45] Kenshin:
Moving on. Moving on. Question of the day of the week. So what is the audience biggest, fear when it comes to Bitcoin? Mhmm. So,
[01:02:58] McIntosh:
would would be interesting to hear. I'm very interested in this. Yeah. This will be great feedback. So boost those back. Yeah. I wish I could tell you I could boost you if you did that. I I'm not sure at this point that I can do that. I don't know. Fountain, frankly, has done a lot of changes, and I'm not sure that I can. I'm gonna try it again.
[01:03:18] Kenshin:
Yeah. I think they have it enabled. But now that we will be on Oster, they can comment on the Yeah. Now that's super easy. And another reason for you to we're not pushing Oster.
[01:03:29] McIntosh:
I guess we are, but they're not paying us to do it. I mean, it's just what we're drawn to. So Mhmm. Yep. Would love to see that. Alright.
[01:03:41] Kenshin:
Great. Yeah. And supporters.
[01:03:45] McIntosh:
So you've got I was bringing down the list. Do you have I think you've got everything.
[01:03:52] Kenshin:
Well, we had two, but I see. Send it Mike with 2,345
[01:03:59] McIntosh:
sets. Thanks. Send it. Mike? Mike? Mike? Mike?
[01:04:05] Kenshin:
Did he have a note? Yeah. He said, no sad puppy this week.
[01:04:10] McIntosh:
And he's right about that. I see it comes up. I will put the happy puppy up. And it did have butterflies, by the way. I saw it. Thanks,
[01:04:21] Kenshin:
Mike. Appreciate it. So he he says, I like the pairing of the last two episodes. Feels like 01/2002 to lightning and getting started. I could use a three zero three on how to use an old laptop to set up a lightning and Bitcoin node. Yes. I agree with you, Mike. I'd that's a great idea.
[01:04:41] McIntosh:
We need to put that on our list, Kenshin, and I need to mull that over. I've actually got some thoughts about all I know that's amazing that Macintosh just has random thoughts, But yeah. Let's talk about that. I don't know that that'll fit the audio format, but we can maybe talk about it and then point them towards some something online. Right? I think there'll be a lot of well, I don't know. Let's just talk about it. Awesome. Thank you, Mike. That he said he continues a bit. He says, I use lightning mostly just to zap.
[01:05:15] Kenshin:
And when friends buy food for the office or I owe someone a few bucks for something, I get them on Aqua,
[01:05:24] McIntosh:
the wallet,
[01:05:25] Kenshin:
and send the SUDs to pay them back. So that's interesting. So you're using Aqua, which I like,
[01:05:32] McIntosh:
as a small wallet, as a hot wallet, essentially, just like any lightning wallet. Very cool. We need to talk about that a little more. It's backed. It uses the liquid network. It's not backed by liquid, but it is an interesting way to maybe even gain a little more privacy. Mhmm. So, yeah, we should probably talk about that particular item at some point as well. Not enough episodes though.
[01:06:02] Kenshin:
No. Alright? And then we have another interesting zap from Bullish Clips. Three hundred thirty three sets.
[01:06:11] McIntosh:
Thank you.
[01:06:13] Kenshin:
Enjoyed the show, gents. I've got a shop that's powered by albihab and Bitcoin connect. Very bullish. On lightning. And then his, web shop is called Bullish one second.
[01:06:30] McIntosh:
If we've got a link, we will show that. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. Bullish.space. Okay. Bullish.space. Let me bring that up real quick.
[01:06:41] Kenshin:
Oh, yeah. I know him. He's a Nostor. We interrupt with a Nostor. Great.
[01:06:46] McIntosh:
Well, we'll put the link in the show notes, so that will be available. So I appreciate that. I don't think there were any more boost, for this week, but we certainly appreciate that support. We are look. We're going in a long tension. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to move this along. I wanna go through these software updates. There's some really good things. And HRF, Human Rights Foundation, has awarded all of their Bitcoin bounties. I did wanna say this. I love the HRF. I'd like to get, what's his name? It starts with an a. Is it Alex? The founder or not? He may not be the founder, but, shoot. He wrote a book. Actually, I think he wrote more than one.
I'm drawn to complete the Gladstein? Gladstein. Yes. I'd love to get him on the podcast at some point, but this is a great work. And they are supporting Bitcoin development. So if you are doing coding and whatever, this isn't something you wanna check out for sure. Okay? I love some of the work that they're doing, and they don't seem to play favorites. I'll they are literally supporting people kind of not I don't wanna say on both sides of things, but, like, I'm sure there's people in Russia that they're supporting, with Bitcoin work and people in the Ukraine.
Same thing. Right? They're not promoting Russia over the Ukraine or vice versa. It's that's not what it's about, but they are supporting people who are doing privacy work, who are doing, I don't know, work against autocratic governments or whatever. Right? I don't know. Lots of stuff going on there. Always interesting to hear from them. So let's run through you shortened up the list, didn't you? Did you just do that? Yeah. I did. It wasn't the old one. I'm like, something just disappeared. Alright. I'm gonna briefly mention this Proton wallet, and I'll do and you're still deleting things.
I'm gonna briefly mention this. I do wanna make people aware of it. Proton is a, like, a secure email service. They've been around for years. They are getting into Bitcoin. This wallet that they're building is open source, which I applaud. I'd have no experience with it, and I don't use ProtonMail. Maybe I should, but I don't. And so we will have a link to it if it's something that is of interest. I assume that this works separate from their setup. I I think there's some integrations.
[01:09:33] Kenshin:
There is an integration. Yeah. You can actually send, sites to
[01:09:40] McIntosh:
email accounts. Right. If you have some Proton accounts. Right. So they've got something set up at the background, essentially, which is that's cool. But I think you could probably use it separate from that. So it may be something you wanna check out. I love the open source nature of it. Mhmm. So why don't you go ahead and do,
[01:09:59] Kenshin:
those last two? AlpiGo, is the Albi Wallet that, interfaces with the Albi Hub. It's a great, wallet lightning wallet. Very simple. And now with the new release, it's a very big release. It introduces push notifications. Okay. So every time, even when you zap, you get a notification, you use up this amount. And, of course, when you receive as well. Right. And, also, you can pay now zero amount invoices. And this happened to me. I needed to log in to a service. And to log in with Lightning, you essentially pay a zero amount invoice to do that. Cool. And I couldn't do it. And I was thinking, shit. My my albhi hub is not working properly. But it was not possible to do it, it seems. So so now it is.
[01:10:52] McIntosh:
And a few other improvements. Yeah. And we got a new version of Primal as well.
[01:10:57] Kenshin:
What is the NWC support? What what It's in Master Wallet Connect. Right? Yes. Master Wallet Connect. So now if you have a Primal account and you're using their Primal Wallet Mhmm. Now you can, take that NWC
[01:11:13] McIntosh:
and use Primal Wallet with other Master apps as well. Very cool. Cool. So you can move between Nostra apps. And So you could make that Primal Wallet your kind of main wallet and hook it into all those Nostra clients. Right? Yeah.
[01:11:26] Kenshin:
I don't like it because you cannot customize it unless you pay premium.
[01:11:31] McIntosh:
Yeah. Not a fan of that myself either. I would love to see somebody like Primal, and I this isn't gonna happen, but, you know, they should go value for value and just, hey. You can have it for free. We'd love your support. I know that it's difficult. I get it. But it just builds a different set of incentives. So Yeah. Hey. We've been at it for over an hour, and I'm gonna we're gonna draw this up to a close. I don't wanna I don't wanna go too long. We'd I'm not gonna do my normal wrap up, but you guys, you know, we're a value for value podcast. We do depend on people like Mike and Bullish Clips. Glad to see you, Bullish Clips. I think you're new. I do not remember ever seeing you boost in before.
Regardless of whether that was your first episode or your hundredth episode of listening, we appreciate it. We appreciate all of our supporters, and you don't even have to boost, by the way, to support this show. One of the best ways you can do that is simply to turn to somebody and say, hey. Take a listen to Stoshi's Plebs. You know? These guys are, I don't know, down to earth. Some people might say a few other words, but, you know, I do give credence to the fact that anybody can do this because if I did it, then so can you. I mean, frankly. Anyways, we would love to have the message of, you know, Satoshi's Club be spread like that.
So how do you get ahold of us? Go to our episodes page, satoshis-plebs.com/episodes, and then just click on a mess on an episode, whatever the latest one happens to be. We have our support listed at the bottom of that. All the different ways you can you can, get a hold of us. And I would strongly encourage you if you are not on Noster, this would be a great opportunity for you to get on there. Follow our our page, and, yes, we're gonna show our stuff, but you're gonna get zaps, or a zap of 210 or so if you comment and repost that. So it's a great way to you to go ahead and get some sats in your, Nostra wallet. Okay?
[01:13:57] Kenshin:
Mhmm.
[01:13:59] McIntosh:
You got anything you wanna add, Kenshin?
[01:14:02] Kenshin:
No. Well said.
[01:14:03] McIntosh:
Okay. If they are curious how to start a Nostra account, again, we described that in the last episode. Yeah. And we have a page set up. I think it's, satoshi's dash pubs dot com slash nostra that might be helpful as as well. Thanks for being here. As always, I hope this has been helpful. And like I said, just go to the episode page to get a hold of us. Stay humble friends. Go out. Make it a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is February, and this is episode one ninety seven of Satoshi's Plebs. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin. And today's episode is our Bitcoin fears.
[00:00:44] McIntosh:
Alright, Kenshin. We'll get into it in just a minute, but, man, it's been a week. Let's go ahead and talk about the price and this kind of thing. I I know y'all are like, man, Macintosh, it's always a week. What is your problem, dude? It really has been a week this week. Our price as we start to record is $97,587. And what do we have in euros, Kenshin?
[00:01:08] Kenshin:
We have €94,100.
[00:01:11] McIntosh:
I keep telling you, man. Y'all need to catch up. Come on. It it's us when €1,000 up in the last hour. It has been kind of I I don't know. This this market well, for months now, really, it's it's just been kinda weird. It's just been this choppy sideways thing. So weird. Even though we've made some all time highs a couple of times in it. Right? We were at one zero nine here not too long ago, a couple of weeks maybe. Yep. I'd have to look at the chart, but yeah. But it's essentially just been in this box between 90 and a hundred k, and it's just well, that's like a ping pong. Anyways, we're at block height eight eight three four eight zero. The, the blocks keep rolling in, and, actually, it looks like we're gonna have a downward difficulty adjustment, although we are relatively new into this. I don't know what's going on with the hash power. I don't with the mining.
I we we just roll with it, but right now, we're showing almost a 7% downward adjustment. We just had an upward adjustment of almost 6%, five point six one % just a couple of days ago. So maybe it's just too early, and that's gonna go, you know, closer to zero or whatever. But right now, we are looking at a significant downward adjustment, coming up on February 24. You wanna talk about our mempool?
[00:02:37] Kenshin:
Right. Our mempool is at two two and two. So you only need two sets per v byte to send a transaction even Very cool. Next minute if there is a block at the next like, 25¢
[00:02:50] McIntosh:
or something.
[00:02:51] Kenshin:
Yeah. So it's really good. Less than a hundred megabytes of unprocessed, transactions around 5,000 or something. Transactions in the mempool in the mempool dot space mempool. And, I and I say that because there is a few different mempools. Of course. Yes. Of course.
[00:03:15] McIntosh:
Gosh. We don't wanna be spreading false information. I'm sorry. I act like there's one. And as we've said from time to time, there's, of course, many, many memples. But they all represent the same thing, really. So I actually don't view it as something that's incorrect. We just it's like a virtual memble. So I'm a little jealous, Kenshin. I gotta tell you. I gotta be honest. So we've written out our notes about, you know, our stuff, and I know what you're about to talk about. And I'm jealous because you're learning some fun new stuff. So why don't you tell everybody about it? Well, with,
[00:03:54] Kenshin:
with the AI recently, I started using it more and more, chat gbt and now my self hosted AI stuff. I start using Python again. So for once, I don't abandon my ideas and my projects because I don't know Python well enough. I just go to Chativity. I ask, I want Yeah. Python program for this, and I can do it. And I can read it because I know enough to understand it.
[00:04:23] McIntosh:
Right. I think you and I are very similar in that. I am no Python expert, but I can read it. I can understand what it's saying, unlike, say, Rust, which looks like gobbledygook to me most of the time. And and frankly, both chat GPT and deep seek both do an excellent job with Python in particular.
[00:04:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exactly. So I end up with with things I can use. Mhmm. So I made a few Noister bots now, and I improved them a lot in the past week. I made even a bot to create a brand new user from the start, like we talked in the previous episodes, to make automatically a coin nose account for a user, generate a lightning address and everything, at the same time, generate a nostril profile with that information and populate that nostril profile with a profile name and description and the lightning address from coinos and everything. What do you mean by nostril profile? So so when you do a coin os Mhmm. Account, you get the lightning address and you get, pair an aster pair key. Right? Okay. Right. So you get your public key and your private key. Mhmm. But if you go on Oster and you enter that private key, it it's basically very empty. You don't even have a proper name.
It's just it's just an n pub. It's just the public key visible there. Mhmm. So with what I did with Python, I just say the username that you used on Coinos to register, use the same username to show us a Nostr name. So when you go on Nostr, then you see, okay, that is a person who has that name, and it has that description under the name, and it has that lightning address that is the coinos that was just generated. So it looks like a proper profile, set to use for a person. So the onboarding happening automatically. Yeah. It's just the press of the button, run it, and it gets a random username from the BIP 39 Italian words list.
[00:06:47] McIntosh:
Now I'm sorry, Kinshen. Yeah. I didn't know you were Italian. I'm a quarter Italian. Are you? That's true. Yeah. I didn't actually know that. No.
[00:07:00] Kenshin:
Okay. My grand my grandmother.
[00:07:03] McIntosh:
Or maybe you told me. I apologize if I didn't remember. No. I don't think I told you. It's, a Do you know what a Heinz fifty seven is?
[00:07:11] Kenshin:
No. No.
[00:07:17] McIntosh:
I'm not that Italian. Do you know what a mongrel is? No. No. No. This isn't Italian. This is American. Sorry. Do you know what a mongrel is? Like, a dog that's like all these different breeds. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's me.
[00:07:31] Kenshin:
Okay? Okay. So
[00:07:34] McIntosh:
in addition to my my ancestor, my namesake McIntosh, who was he was half Scotch and half Creek Indian. I also have a, I gotta get all this right. Hold on. Irish, Dutch, English, another kind of Indian. And then my children have more, which I'm not gonna go into, but, like, they it it ends up I think that's maybe five for me and then, like, seven or eight for them. So, it's kind of a mess. A Heinz fifty seven is like a a mix. I I I don't know. That's sorry. That was kind of obtuse. I I know I know I shouldn't say things like that talking to a to an international audience, but but a mutt, a mongrel, not a pure breed. That's this guy.
Right?
[00:08:34] Kenshin:
I'm the same.
[00:08:36] McIntosh:
Well, yeah. That's cool, though. So sorry. I we're completely off track. That looks really cool, though. So my week, much let much more boring.
[00:08:46] Kenshin:
Okay.
[00:08:48] McIntosh:
Hold on just a second. There's a saying, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. I'm I'm really dull right now. I told y'all I've been working on this project. It finishes, so we're recording on Wednesday. Actually, when you get this on Friday morning, my project is supposed to be like, we complete this major milestone. Unfortunately, the project won't be over, but I'll be able to breathe for just a second before I go off racing to the next milestone. And in the meantime, I mean, honestly, I've just been working my little butt off. And then my better half, my wife, she didn't abandon me. I I was gonna say she abandoned me, but that's not what happened, and I don't wanna be spreading any rumors.
She did go off on a on a trip. And so I'm having to do, parenting, extra parenting duties and deal with this project. And, man, it's just got my life turned upside down, I'll be honest. So that's really it for me. I have not had time to go back and work on my code at all. My lightning node setup that we talked about two weeks ago, I think. Alright. I haven't touched it. I would like to get that finished, but, it will it will probably be next week before I can even look at it, to be honest, if I can even get to it then. Because, unfortunately, I have more deadlines.
That's just the nature of this project. So that's enough about that. I think I probably put everybody to sleep. So we probably just need to move right on. But we have some exciting news now. Yes. We do. I've been this is you you go ahead. I I am. I'm pumped. I'm excited. This is awesome.
[00:10:39] Kenshin:
Okay. So we want to, create a Zapathon on NoStar. And what is a Zapathon? I think we touched on that before. So it's we're gonna give away, a total of 42,000 Satoshis. We will create a new account for the Satoshis Playb podcast on Nostr, and we will create, note on Nostr, like, what do we call it on Twitter? Like a tweet or whatever. Right? Right. A post. And whoever, comments and reposts that note will receive 210 sats from us until we're out of money. Right. And the first twenty one people who comment and repost will get 420.
[00:11:38] McIntosh:
So they get a bonus. So you wanna be first. Yes. And we're gonna do this until we run out of our 42,000 satoshis. So Correct. Ken, Shane and I are gonna split this up. We'll have two different wallets, our my account, his account. And, actually, that works really well because he's on let's see. You're on later than I am most of the time. You get up as as, you know, it's eight hours ahead of me, essentially, or whatever it is. Six hours. So for those in Europe, he can kinda handle that, and I can handle the people, posting in America.
And, you know, there won't be a a lag time.
[00:12:21] Kenshin:
Yeah. I I get the good morning Europe people.
[00:12:25] McIntosh:
You get the good morning US people. As I'm laying down in bed two nights ago, at, like, 03:00 in the morning because I'm working on this project, Kenshin's posting good morning, and I said, good night. I literally posted that in bed. I probably like that, but it was just too funny because I just happened to glance at it. Yeah. I'd already I had to take melatonin when I'm doing this this all this work like this because it really messes up my sleep schedule. Melatonin's, it's actually a natural substance, and it it helps you go to sleep. So I take the two melatonin gummies or whatever they are, and it takes me about twenty minutes to go to sleep after that. Otherwise, I just sit there wide awake, exhausted because I'm still thinking about stuff because I've got all this stuff in my head. Right? So I had taken my melatonin already, and I just I think I was still reading my, I've been reading the Lord of the Rings. I finished it up a couple days ago, but that may have been, like, the night that I finished, and I I happened to flip over to to Noster. It was just kinda funny. Anyway, maybe you had to be there.
Yeah. I saw it. Comedian, Kenshin. Sorry. I tried. But I saw it. I was surprised. I I thought, yeah. That's a late night. It was I think it was 03:00 in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. So that would have been maybe, I think you're six hours ahead of me. Was it, like, 09:00 in the morning? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. My
[00:14:02] Kenshin:
now I switched it, to say good morning at ten.
[00:14:06] McIntosh:
And that was not actually the latest I stood I've I stayed up this week. There was one night I went to bed at four. Mhmm. That's it's just I'm not young anymore, and this stuff, it's getting to me.
[00:14:23] Kenshin:
Alright. Okay. But, Julia, one more one more thing. Mhmm. They can, follow us. Our new account, has the the NEIP zero five address or the Lightning address, called satoshisplebs,1word,@coin0s.io.
[00:14:42] McIntosh:
Right. So that's the easiest way. Coin o s dot I o last week. You could go back and listen to that episode. You can walk yourself through that whole setup if you want to use them. And if you're new to the setup, if you're new to Nostr, I would recommend that you do this. Okay? When I got involved in Nostr, it's been more than a year ago now, I had to generate my in pub and my private keys by command line, which was fun, and, you know, it worked. But this is a lot easier. And you can do that, and then follow us. And we're not talking about, just to be clear, every post. We will put out one specific post. And when you read the post, it will tell you if you comment, you'll get zapped. Okay?
So don't just I mean, you're welcome to follow us. You're welcome to comment. I hope you do, but we're not going to just start zapping every comment. We can't. We we will not be able to afford that. This is a decent amount, of of sats. In fact, in future earning potentials, this is actually a really large amount of money. So
[00:16:01] Kenshin:
I imagine my grandchilds will sit around in twenty years, and they will be saying It may not be twenty years. Yeah. But it's gonna be like, how much were you zapping random people in no store? 20,000 subs? It's gonna be mind blowing.
[00:16:18] McIntosh:
Yep. But that's, like, four months salary.
[00:16:23] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:16:25] McIntosh:
Yeah. No. It's it's true though. And it's interesting. I wanna throw this out here. I was gonna do it later, but I'll just go ahead and say this real quick. I saw this thing on Twitter by and I don't remember who it was. Maybe it was Adam back from, Kenshin, you always had to help me out. Is it Blockstream or block? Yeah. It's Blockstream. Looks yeah. Who's been involved in Bitcoin forever, and he actually, he was mentioned in the white paper. That's a crazy thought, but it's true. His HashCash thing Yes. Yes. That was actually mentioned in the white paper. Pretty cool. Of work. Proof of work. Right. Anyways, he showed this chart, and I think it was him. But he showed this chart, and he said, basically, in the sixteen years that Bitcoin, has been around, we've gone from zero to where we're at today.
And by his calculations, if we simply continue the same growth pattern that we have in ten years, not twenty, not a hundred in ten years, we will be not at $1,000,000 per Bitcoin, which is kind of I've started I mean, we're at one tenth of that now. I mean, frankly, if it's not this epoch, if it's not this cycle, it will be the next cycle. Almost assuredly, we'll be at a million dollars per Bitcoin. But let's say it takes three. That would be twelve years or, no. That'd be eight years from now. He says if we just follow what we've done for the last sixteen years, we'll be at $10,000,000 in ten years.
I'll let that sink in. Yep. Alright?
[00:18:13] Kenshin:
So Yeah. You know what's my favorite to look at? The Bitcoin issuance is the last Bitcoin to be generated will take forty years.
[00:18:26] McIntosh:
Four I saw that you saw the same thing I did. You had to have. This came out today. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Forty years to generate the final Bitcoin. The energy of all of those miners, which God knows how many miners there will be at that point because we are literally talking about one hundred and almost forty years in the future. No. Wait. You said so a hundred years in the future. Right? Yeah. I don't know how many miners they will be, but they will all be working to mine that last Bitcoin. Yeah. How much is that Bitcoin going to be worth? I my mind simply cannot comprehend that. Yeah. Okay. Trillions probably. Yeah.
[00:19:11] Kenshin:
But the it's gonna be from the year February until the year 02/1940.
[00:19:17] McIntosh:
Right. I know it ends at 2140. Yeah. So it's forty years before that it starts. And and the funny thing is people are so worried about the security budget for Bitcoin. Like, every time that that transactions go down, like, right now, And when you mine a Bitcoin block, you get the block itself. So that's what? 3.125 now plus a transaction fee. The these fees that we pay to send the transaction, those go to the miner who mines the block. They're not very much. It's like point o one five or something Bitcoin right now, or I think that's actually, I can look at mempool. I'll tell you. Point o
[00:20:05] Kenshin:
three.
[00:20:05] McIntosh:
Okay. So that one's a little higher, but yeah. Yeah. Here's point o three, point o two eight. So I'm I'm off. Yeah. There's a point o two one. Yeah. So they're quite low, and everybody's like, oh my gosh. How are they gonna pay for the mining and this blah blah blah? It'll work out. It'll be okay. It will work out. I promise you. When you have the entire world competing for forty years for 1 Bitcoin.
[00:20:37] Kenshin:
I mean, it it's not a long time ago that it was 50 Bitcoin per reward block reward. And now we're at three, and it's still profitable to do it. So
[00:20:47] McIntosh:
Fortunately, I don't think I ever saw this site when it was live, but I have seen this site on Twitter or whatever a number of times. When Bitcoin first came out, when they were trying to get it spread out to enough people to make this whole thing work, there was a website. It was the Bitcoin faucet or whatever. You'd go there. It would give you 5 Bitcoin. It would give you 5 Bitcoin.
[00:21:16] Kenshin:
It's craziness.
[00:21:17] McIntosh:
Okay. Anyways, we will step back a little bit. You just gotta think long term. That's it. What's our topic? Our Bitcoin fears. And and to be honest, Kenshin, this was his idea. And he threw it out to me, and I'm like, what? That's silly. We don't have any fears. And then I started thinking about it. And Ken Sham was like, oh, no. I've got and he'll talk about these. This, this, and this, whatever. And I'm like, wait. What? And then I start, and I've jotted down a couple. I could probably do some more, and I don't know. We'll just kinda see where this goes. But, yeah, even those of us so I've been involved in Bitcoin since 2013.
Alright. I bought my first Bitcoin at $300, sadly, and then I I traded it away. But, you know, even those of us who've been in this business for a long time, we still there's still fears. So let's talk about let's be honest. Mhmm. Because I'm always trying to be honest on this podcast, so let's let's be honest. Yes. So, let's talk about these common fears first. Right? So these are things that you kinda hear out in the public a lot. So
[00:22:41] Kenshin:
Yeah. What if they ban Bitcoin? I think that's the most So we've tried that.
[00:22:47] McIntosh:
First of all, I would say that. Yeah. Two things. We we saw China arguably banned Bitcoin mining. I it it did happen to a large extent. A large amount of hash rate was shut down within a very short period of time. And I remember I was not mining then, unfortunately. But, was it 2021? I think it was. Yeah. Well, it was 2021. The hash price, what a miner gets paid for, essentially for hash, for power compute power, just went astronomical. It was nuts what people were the people who were left online, what they were getting paid. And you know what that incentivized? Either new people came online or those people from China who had to shut down, they moved in some cases to, I wanna say, Kyrgyzstan.
There's two countries right there that start with k. And and frankly, sadly, I I continually get them mixed up. But one of the, countries there in Central Asia had very cheap power, very lax regulations, and a significant percentage of those miners actually moved there. A lot of them moved to Texas because Texas had cheap power and good regulations and all this kind of stuff. So you saw this migration over a course of six months, out of China, and I would argue that the only thing that that's done is hurt China. Now it's hurt the Chinese people, but it's hurt China, the country, just as much.
Okay? And it didn't do a thing to Bitcoin. It enriched some people, and some people, you know, they had to lose money when they were moving servers around and this kind of thing. Mhmm. Could a country Kenshin, could you see actually, do you know of any countries offhand that do ban Bitcoin? I think I know of one, and I'll say it in just a second. Russia has banned areas. Now they banned mining, not cryptocurrency or Bitcoin, like, transactions or whatever. But, yes, we've talked about that. Yeah. It's easy. It's relatively easy to ban mining if you're serious about it. Right? We've seen this. I mean, Venezuela took over a bunch of stuff. This has happened in a number of places.
Let's be honest. It's in it seems to be in the more autocratically, run places, shall we say. But I do know of one country where crypto is illegal. I wanna double check this real quick. Okay. Maybe I'm I think what I'm thinking of is mining. So I was talking about Nepal, and I I do you're not allowed to mine. I I know they had some issues a couple of years now. Maybe it has changed. It doesn't look like they really have a ban on it. But I remember, like, in 2020, '20 '20 '1, they had some issues with, like, scammers coming in. And they were scamming the the Nepalese people, out of their money, in these crazy crypto things. And the government just kinda came down really heavy and said no crypto, period.
[00:26:28] Kenshin:
Mhmm.
[00:26:29] McIntosh:
Because I've looked at, you know, potentially kinda doing there what we've what people are doing in Africa, building Bitcoin mines and helping bring power to some of these remote areas. I've talked about it on here a number of times, and I did not know about that until I started researching that. But, yeah, maybe that's not the case anymore or well, yeah. I wanna say that.
[00:26:54] Kenshin:
So Yeah. In Investopedia, they mention China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, and Bolivia. I don't know I think Bolivia is the mining.
[00:27:09] McIntosh:
I can't really speak for the others. I don't wanna get too bogged down into this. Actually, no. It says the use of use trading and possession of digital assets has been prohibited since 2014. Okay. Well, I don't know. That's unfortunate. Yeah. It's tough. Can a country tell you not to own crypto? Yes. Can they make your life extremely difficult if you choose to continue to do that? Yes. Can Bitcoin specifically and I'm not gonna talk about the rest of the garbage, but can Bitcoin specifically be shut down at this point? No way. There are 20,000 nodes.
There are a large number of miners. I really need to look up that number. I should have it on top of my head. There it is scattered all over the world even if The United States, which I would argue will not at this point, but let me come back to that. Even if The United States said no more Bitcoin, it's illegal, would it hurt? Yes. Would it stop Bitcoin? No. Okay. Now I will argue that United States, when they legalized the ETFs, which was roughly one year ago as you brought up earlier today, which we need to talk about that for just a second. Because of that, that was kinda putting their stamp of approval on it. It is integrated into our financial systems now.
Now I know that some of you think maybe the government could do some kind of seizure or whatever. That is a possibility. They could go to Kraken, Coinbase, these exchanges, and basically do that out of them very easily. Okay? But just I don't see that happening. It's something I'm gonna continue to monitor, of course, but I just don't think that's a possibility at this point. And and the cat's out of the bag. I mean, Wall Street wants this stuff. That's what the truth is. And the more it gets the deeper it gets into the financial systems, of The United States specifically, the less chance we have of, you know, congress saying you can't own Bitcoin.
It's just not gonna happen because too many people will be upset about it. So I guess maybe that one's kinda fifty fifty because it certainly is possible, but I also think the more Bitcoin grows, the less likely it's possible. And countries like Bolivia will eventually be forced to come on board because they will see countries like El Salvador whose economy is booming, who's turning themselves around. And I think in part, that's because of Bitcoin. Countries like Bhutan out there mining Bitcoin. But Bhutan, from the numbers that I've seen, they have more sats per citizen in their global in their sovereign fund than any other country. And that is just I always that just makes me excited because they're a ridiculously small country up in the Himalayas.
Right? But they're using what they have to their advantage, so more power to them. Enough about that. Sorry. We do not want this to be a two hour episode. Macintosh does not have the strength. Do you have anything you wanted to add to that? Oh, you've got a website there. I think you you just added.
[00:30:56] Kenshin:
Yeah. They have some details. But yeah. Not more on that. I hear other comments, what if the value drops.
[00:31:06] McIntosh:
Okay.
[00:31:07] Kenshin:
But I I always say, what if anything's value drops? Everything is valued based on human perception, even gold in that sense. So
[00:31:17] McIntosh:
All time highs, by the way. Yeah.
[00:31:20] Kenshin:
Exactly. So
[00:31:22] McIntosh:
We do see drops in in other things. Right? Mhmm. I can give you, one example right at the top of my head. Real estate. 02/2008 here in The United States, we were kind of at the top of the market in real estate. And all this baloney about people not being able to pay their mortgages kind of hit the fan, and it dumped and it dumped really hard. And then it took basically until COVID took so 2020 or whatever to reach those same levels. So Mhmm. So it dropped, and then it kind of slowly edged its way back up. And then it's taken off since COVID. But all of that time in between roughly 12 or so, you were underwater if you were owning a house.
Now there has been no point no point in Bitcoin's history if you held a, a Bitcoin for more than four years that you've been under that you've been underwater. Does that make sense? I I don't know if I'm saying that right. Right? Yeah. So I may buy at the top of the market. I actually know a person who bought one Bitcoin. I'm trying to figure out when this was. It it was the top of the last market, so it was 2021. They spent roughly $50,000 on this Bitcoin. And then they sat there for the next four years, essentially, underwater, but they're not underwater at this point. In fact, they're well above it, and they'll never be underwater ever again unless Bitcoin does something that it has never done before.
And as it becomes more and more integrated into the financial systems of the world, the chances of a seventy, eighty, 90 percent dump are far less likely. Because Michael Saylor, ladies and gentlemen, wants your Bitcoin, and he'll be buying it. If it gets back below, say, $70,000, he'll just shove all the he'll shove everything he's got on the table, and he's got a lot.
[00:33:48] Kenshin:
He he buys nonstop, it seems, every two weeks. Yeah.
[00:33:52] McIntosh:
So it is it volatile? Yes. And I've heard great discussions by people who are smarter than I am about why that is, why that has to be, and how that's a benefit. You just have to look at this in a medium to long term. Stop worrying about the price this week, this month, this quarter, or even this year. I am buying stuff for one, not well, one epoch. So four years or eight years or twelve years down the road, I'm not buying it for right now. Mhmm. K? The the smartest thing I ever did was when I stopped buying and selling my Bitcoin, trying to catch a trade and make a buck, and instead, I bought it and put it into my seed signer.
And I'm not mad at anybody in case it sounds like I am. I'm mad at myself because I wasted a lot of time doing that. Okay. I was stupid because I thought I was so smart, and instead, I lost I don't even wanna think about how much money. Okay? Learn from my mistakes. I've told you all that time and time again. Anyways Everybody everybody has to go through that. But yeah. We do. But you don't have to do it as long as I did. I was I was exceptionally not smart. So if the value drops, I say smash buy more. That's what I say. And I did it when Russia invaded the Ukraine. Okay?
Bitcoin hit a bottom of $16,000, and I bought because I knew it was gonna go down, and I knew it was gonna go back up because I've done this long enough to know that these kind of things happen. So that's what I did, and that was, five x ago. So Yes. Right? We're we're five x from that 16,000. Just stop and think. And that was not that long ago. Two years? Two and a half years? Two years? Is it Two years. It is actually seven. It's exactly two years. Okay. December 21. Yeah. Anyways, that's that's what I do when the value drops. I just buy more because it's not for me. So the third one that we've got here, which I think is actually I think this may actually be the one that people are most worried about. Yeah. You know? What if I lose the private key?
Bitcoiners talk about self sovereignty all the time. Oh, you should own your own keys. You should keep it on your thing. And, you know, we talk about seed signer. Right? And I keep my seed signer stuff, and and it's right here. My stuff is not on Coinbase. It's not on Kraken. None of that. But what if I lose my private key? Well, it does put responsibility on your shoulders. That's the if you own your own Bitcoin, and you own your own keys, you are responsible for those keys, and you need to be aware of that. And if you're talking about $10, well, then that's one level. If you're talking about a thousand dollars even, I would start to seriously consider how I manage those keys.
Do I keep them in a safe? Do I have a copy of them? Do who do I keep that other copy with? Because a thousand dollars is one thing, but ten years from now, if it's a hundred x and it gets to 10,000,000, that thousand is now a hundred thousand dollars Right? So you treat it right now like it will be in ten years, And then it starts to make a lot of sense. So what are the some of the ways, Kenshin, that people can keep their keys safe?
[00:38:06] Kenshin:
Well, the the easy way is, first of all, I would say to to make it into a engrave it in metal. Okay. In a metal plate, I would say. And then have it in a safe place, somewhere that you know is not easily accessible. And if the house burns down, then it's protected by the metal itself. Need to think about that. Okay. I would say a more advanced way is to have a multisig setup. Then you have at least three keys, and you need two to sign. Or maybe you have five keys, and you need three to sign. And then you split those keys up.
[00:38:48] McIntosh:
If you have a family, okay, and you have a decent amount of money in Bitcoin, then you need to be considering that. Okay? Because, for example, I'm married. What happens if I die? Right? How is my wife going to deal with that? You have to think through all of these things and a multi signature setup like we're talking about, even if it's two or three, is far safer than a lot. Now is it more complex? Yeah. Yes. But I think most people could handle it if they actually spent more than five minutes on it, to be honest. Mhmm. Right? Some of the devices and things that are out there that you can do a multisig setup are getting pretty simple.
And a multisig setup, by the way, is one situation where I can say, oh, you got a cold card or you got Casa, whatever their product is. You can mix that in with a seed signer, and that's not a problem. And then that actually protects you because not to pick on a cold card, but what happens if cold card something happens with it? Well, that's only one key out of the three. So this might actually be a situation where I wouldn't necessarily even recommend just using seed signer for all three of those signing devices. I might, but that's my choice. I might actually recommend just using different ones just to spread the probabilities around. Right. Spread the risk. Thank you. Yeah. A multi device multi sig.
[00:40:40] Kenshin:
Yes. That's Yep. That's the ideal setup. A bit advanced, but I think it's worth it also. And a friend of mine, he suggested even, like, instead of making backups of the individual keys let's say if you have three keys and then you make a backup of each, then you end up with six Right. Physical backups. Mhmm. It's even better to have six or seven different keys, and three are still the sign in keys. Right. So three three out of seven or something like that. Then you have a list. Four out of seven.
[00:41:13] McIntosh:
No. You can do you can do whatever you want. You can do six out of seven, three out of seven. I did not know that. I thought it had to be at least half of it. No. You can do it. Yeah. And that way, if you lose a key, it's not that big a deal. I would also look. I mean, we are literally talking about life changing money. And if you've got a hundred thousand, $2.03, $4.05, a million dollars in there, you probably ought to every six months take the time to make sure you know what you're doing with this. Okay? Yes. It takes time. Yes. It takes more responsibility.
But we have talked on here endlessly about the issues that you can have with custodians, whether that's a bank or a Bitcoin specific custodian, and I just don't recommend those either. And it's just just do it yourself. Just do it yourself. So, so yeah. I I guess in the simplest case, if you have a single SIG setup, and you lose the private keys, you're like that poor old guy over in England who is digging through the, or trying to dig through the through the town garbage pit to find his hard drive. Right? You've heard this story. I know you have. I have. I remember it. Oh, yes. You have. He his girlfriend threw out the hard drive containing thousands, I guess, of Bitcoin.
Thousands of individual Bitcoins. Right? And when he realized it was too late, it's in the town dump. They know it's there. But the town, he's offering to, like, share with the town, pay for all of this. They won't do it. Like, they need to, like, basically sort all this stuff out and find that hard drive because the hard drive's in there. And the data is probably recoverable. But it's a crazy story. You can look it up. But he had one key. If he'd had a a multisix setup, which this was a long time ago, I don't know when multisix got enabled or whatever, so I I maybe this was prior to that.
You know? But he wouldn't have that problem because and you gotta talk about fire, flood, wind. I don't know. Geographical dispersion, and don't get overwhelmed. Most of us have time to figure this out. Again, if you only have $10 on your Bitcoin wallet, you don't have the same worries as somebody who has a hundred thousand dollars or a couple of million. Right? You're probably going to build up to that. So we do need to move on or this is gonna get to be a really long episode. Yeah. What if somebody comes to my home and steals the private keys?
[00:44:11] Kenshin:
That's my biggest fear, actually.
[00:44:14] McIntosh:
Okay. Well, we'll wrap this into you your set of fears. Yeah. That is a common fear for people. So what are your thoughts on that?
[00:44:23] Kenshin:
Well, my thoughts especially are since I live in Sweden, if someone knows me by name Mhmm. And knows I have Bitcoin, they Google my name, and they literally get the full page, maybe a few pages of Google saying where I live. There are so many how are those called? Like, yellow pages type of websites. There are at least 20 different ones that all describe first thing about me, where I live. So and with the map and everything and other details like, who is my wife and if I have a dog, if I have a car,
[00:45:06] McIntosh:
the license plate that I of privacy? I No. Absolutely
[00:45:10] Kenshin:
none. So my biggest fear is is that that it is trivial for someone to come to my place if they know I have Bitcoin. So I don't talk about Bitcoin publicly. Right. I talked about it a little bit with a couple of colleagues, but that's it. And family members and other Bitcoiners, but that's it.
[00:45:31] McIntosh:
I think that's probably a really smart move on your part.
[00:45:35] Kenshin:
Yeah. And then if someone comes here, I I don't know. I have prepared myself thinking about it, how I would react, And I have even, I haven't set it up completely yet, but my code card has this feature that if you put the wrong password Right. Then it it does a certain action, and it has, like, five or 10 different actions. So it can disable itself or destroy itself automatically, or it can open a second wallet Right. With a small amount Right. That is a real wallet as well Right. And then destroy itself.
[00:46:10] McIntosh:
So there are few ways that. I don't know if they could ever build that in a seed signer or not. I don't think they could just because of the architecture of it. Mhmm. But if you have a device like that where you can do that, I think that's actually a really smart idea. Oh, yeah. I got 500,000 Bitcoin. I I lost the rest of it. You know? I'm a stupid trader. I mean, you ought to see my stuff. It's it's horrible. And, you know, I'm sorry.
[00:46:37] Kenshin:
Here. What what another funny funny thing, we were just talking yesterday with a friend of mine. It's like if you have a very complicated setup, multi sig and stuff Mhmm. And then someone comes and he's like, wait. This can take some time. Right. You need to open all your notebooks, all your notes. Okay. I have this key here. This key here. Geographically separated. Right? Maybe you have adult children
[00:47:05] McIntosh:
and each one of them have a key. Maybe you trust your kids enough to do this. I don't know. But, right, they have keys, and they're all across the country. Yeah. Exactly. Right? One idea I saw, which I'm surprised it actually hasn't gained more traction. Are you familiar with the concept of, like, a time delayed vault? Like, you see them on the doors in, like, a convenience store. Our lot our vault won't open for, you know, whatever, however they word it. In other words, you can't just go in and put in the combo and open up the lock. You can do that with something like I think it's called mini script with Bitcoin.
So you time delay it. So even if you put in the right combination and you go to send a Bitcoin transaction, it won't do it for a certain amount of time, and you can cancel it prior to that. And Mhmm. If you're why would I need to move money out of my cold wallet, my cold storage immediately in most cases. I might have two cold storages. One, if I did need to periodically kinda do that, and then one that's kind of cold, cold storage that you literally had to wait thirty days to get that money out. Yeah. Does it matter if I need to move half a million dollars and it takes thirty days? I can't imagine a scenario where it would. Does that make sense? Yeah. Absolutely.
You can think about these things and and be clever about it.
[00:48:50] Kenshin:
My plan that I want to set up, I haven't done it yet, but I want to do a multisig, give the keys, only have one key here to my place. Key give the other keys to a few family members Mhmm. And tell them I will only call you on a Thursday evening Right. For a transaction. If it's any other time or date, call the police instantly.
[00:49:16] McIntosh:
Right. Right.
[00:49:18] Kenshin:
So I that's my plan for now. Yeah. But I haven't done it yet, but I think that's that's a version of what you say. Yeah.
[00:49:26] McIntosh:
Yeah. It actually is. It's a human version of just what we're saying.
[00:49:31] Kenshin:
Yeah. Mhmm. And there is another way. If you don't want to do multisig for some reason, there is this Shamir's secret sharing. So you take your single signature and you split it in pieces, and then you distribute those pieces.
[00:49:48] McIntosh:
So it becomes like a multisig in a way. Can can you find a so that's an interest I've I think I I may know what you're talking about. It may just have a different name, but can you find a link to that? Yeah. I have it here. And let's put that in the show notes. That's interesting. Yeah. That is not what I've heard it called. I'd maybe we are talking about something different, but you basically split up your your seed phrases or whatever. Right? Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll have to take a look at that. That sounds really cool and relatively easy to implement, I would think. Let's go ahead and keep going with these.
Oh, let me throw out one of mine. I don't wanna keep picking on you. Mine actually center around two things, to be honest. I think I'm being honest about this. I'm not really worried about somebody breaking into my house. Maybe I should. But, in The United States, we have we have, what's called the second amendment, and that means we can we can bear arms. We can own guns. That's different in a lot of places in the world. But in the area that I live in, somebody breaks in your house, you probably will get met with, I don't know, a shotgun. I'm just saying.
So I don't necessarily worry about kind of that so much, but it's also I would say, it's the one of the main reasons why I don't use my real name in all of this online conversation. I mean, that's just privacy. I for one thing, I'm just frankly private, and I don't want people to know my business, for the most part. But yeah. I mean, I guess that's kind of there as well. But I would say I've kinda got two primary things, and then we'll go back to yours. I wanna talk some more about yours as well. I'm not doing I am doing Bitcoin for me, but I am doing Bitcoin for my family. And this is this is something this podcast used to be called generational wealth with cryptocurrency.
Okay? And I called it that very specifically because I view this as something in the long run that can change family's history in a way that nothing else can. We are talking about, like we did ironically earlier in this episode, in 2100, that last forty years, the compute power of the entire world taking forty years to generate that one Bitcoin. The the asset at that point in 2100, we cannot understand what it will be worth. We cannot. And I'm pretty convinced that's where we're going. I see no reason why it won't be like that. And 2100 is only seventy five years from now.
My children's children will certainly be active in that time frame. My grandchildren. I think I said that right. Yeah. Yes. I will not unless I'm over 100 years old, but they will be. So that's what I'm. Will I benefit from this? I mean, I hope so. This is a way to pass on something that is of true value. Okay. And I'm just worried that I don't get enough of that now while I can because when it's $10,000,000 and you're buying your daily DCA, which frankly you should still be doing, it gets so I mean that just think about that. That's a hundred times harder than it is right now to buy Bitcoin. I'm also worried about my friends and my family not getting enough. I'm just going to be a little transparent here.
My a lot of my friends don't understand. They've heard of Bitcoin. They've dabbled in Bitcoin. Maybe so. I know a couple of them have, but they dabbled in crypto. But by and large, they do not understand. And I hope they do before the mass adoption really kicks in. Because, again, it's going to be so much harder when that happens. 21,000,000 Bitcoin, ladies and gentlemen. What does that mean? If you divide it up evenly, only 21,000,000 people in the world could own a Bitcoin. And it will not be even at least not for a long well, it will not be even. That's just the way it works. It doesn't matter how long you wait. There will be people who don't have it, and there will be people who have more than other people because economics.
Okay. But I want my friends and my family to understand what's going on and stop thinking that I'm a little loco when it comes to Bitcoin because they know. I don't talk to them about it constantly, but they know, you know, because I've I'm pretty sure I'm right. I just hope they figure it out before it's too long. So those are those are really kind of my two biggest things. Let's go ahead and you've got some more here.
[00:55:24] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[00:55:25] McIntosh:
I mean, what else do I have? Could I put one to rest? I mean, honestly Yeah. You you have on here that someone because I think maybe a lot of people think this because of the way that Bitcoin works. You have these seed phrases. Right? There's 12 or 24 seed phrases that you use to kind of unlock your Bitcoin. Your Bitcoin is it's not like in your wallet. You need to understand that. You're really just signing something. Okay? Just the 12 big, seed phrases. Alright? There are more combinations of those 12 characters than there are I think it's atoms in the universe. It's the number is so astronomically high that with the computers that we have today and if they continue to be unless quantum computing becomes an actual thing, and it's not, by the way, so don't freak out on me.
Maybe a hundred years from now, that's a problem, which means we have a hundred years to basically tune the algorithm so that that becomes more difficult. In the meantime, you cannot you just can't guess enough to get those combinations. Okay?
[00:56:52] Kenshin:
For the quantum part Mhmm. There is actually a solution. They just don't implement it on purpose because there's no point to make the code heavier and bigger. Right. Implement it and more complex at this point. Yes. When when it comes out as a real possible threat, they're ready to go.
[00:57:11] McIntosh:
And despite what you may hear on mainstream media, ladies and gentlemen, it is not a threat. And if it were to become one, let's say somebody at IBM created some actual stable quantum computer that could actually do some of this stuff. They're not gonna mess with Bitcoin because it's so difficult. They're gonna break your bank account, which is much easier, and they're gonna steal that money. So when your money comes out of your bank account, then you start worrying about your Bitcoin and a quantum computer.
[00:57:44] Kenshin:
Yeah. Exact I saw that meme actually today. It's like, oh, so you're worried about Bitcoin being cracked, and it shows an image of the bank account with the four digit PIN code Right. And the Bitcoin with it, like, 96 digit code. It's like, what are you?
[00:57:59] McIntosh:
I'll look up the figure, but I've always used 24 seed phrases just because that's just the way I grew up. The longer the password, the better off you were. Yeah. But I saw the figures on 12 recently, and it is stagger. I may actually start using 12 just because it's it's half as much work. It's staggering how many combinations there are just with 12. Maybe we'll talk about that one day. Yeah. We should. Yeah. So I I don't want you to, you know, use a passphrase just like you say. You can use multisig that increases the complexity, but it does make it less vulnerable.
But social engineering is the issue or somebody holding a gun to your head, frankly, or, you know, whatever. A wrench, a $5 wrench attack is what they call it. That's the worry. Not somebody sitting on their PC at home and cracking your seed phrases unless you did something really dumb, like use the same seed phrase 12 times. Okay. It is a password and you need to randomize it. But if you do that properly,
[00:59:12] Kenshin:
you're safe. Mhmm. Okay. Sorry. Correct. And the last one I can say really fast is, again, about Sweden and Europe in general. Mhmm. We've seen how they how sensitive they are with Bitcoin. Yes. And I I had also the experience that when I was, sending a few extra fiat to become Bitcoin, then my bank threatened to close my account. Yeah. Unless I would prove where the funds go. So my bank knows I Mhmm. Did some exchanges with fiat and Bitcoin. And, another bank, when I contact them to open a new account with them, it's one of those Neo banks, as they're called. So they're only digital and modern and everything. So I thought, okay, that that should be a good bank to have an account. And I in the form in the KYC form, I want to be straightforward. I didn't want to be in trouble, like that again. So I said, okay. I might do some transactions with Bitcoin.
And they declined the the Yeah. The application. And then a few months later, I thought, okay, I will try them again. And they declined again. Yeah. And I did mention Bitcoin the second time. And actually, I got a human to talk to me Mhmm. And say, before we saw that you mentioned Bitcoin, now you didn't. Why not? I said, because I don't need you anymore to do Bitcoin transactions. I I got a much better service now. Mhmm. And they said, okay. But you're still declined anyway. But you're still declined. Yeah.
[01:00:57] McIntosh:
The modern banking system is not modern. It's archaic. It is stupid. Personally, it frustrates me virtually every time I walk into a bank, and I'm sorry if you work into a bank if you find that offensive. I the whole KYC thing, ladies and gentlemen, first of all, it really doesn't work. It doesn't deter criminals. It doesn't keep people from laundering money. In fact, the banks are the ones who are laundering the money. And second of all, or third or fourth or whatever, when somebody hacks that bank, which they invariably do, then they steal all your personal information because you have to post it.
It's ludicrous. So now, well, let's say Kraken. Let's say Kraken. Okay? Kraken Coinbase, both in The United States. We have to KYC to use those services. When a hacker hacks their system, they know they're buying Bitcoin or crypto, and they have their name, their address, their phone number, their probably a picture of their driver's license, and a recent picture of their face because you have to sit there and look in the camera and, you know, not use your fingers to give them a salute. Sorry. That was bad. Right?
So I apologize. I'm not normally quite so vindictive, but banks and this kind of stuff just bring it out of me. It's a bad bet. There's nothing good about KYC. There's nothing. The presumption of guilt, the I'm just oh, man. I'm I gotta stop. Ken Shin, stop. Stop me. Stop me. Alright.
[01:02:45] Kenshin:
Moving on. Moving on. Question of the day of the week. So what is the audience biggest, fear when it comes to Bitcoin? Mhmm. So,
[01:02:58] McIntosh:
would would be interesting to hear. I'm very interested in this. Yeah. This will be great feedback. So boost those back. Yeah. I wish I could tell you I could boost you if you did that. I I'm not sure at this point that I can do that. I don't know. Fountain, frankly, has done a lot of changes, and I'm not sure that I can. I'm gonna try it again.
[01:03:18] Kenshin:
Yeah. I think they have it enabled. But now that we will be on Oster, they can comment on the Yeah. Now that's super easy. And another reason for you to we're not pushing Oster.
[01:03:29] McIntosh:
I guess we are, but they're not paying us to do it. I mean, it's just what we're drawn to. So Mhmm. Yep. Would love to see that. Alright.
[01:03:41] Kenshin:
Great. Yeah. And supporters.
[01:03:45] McIntosh:
So you've got I was bringing down the list. Do you have I think you've got everything.
[01:03:52] Kenshin:
Well, we had two, but I see. Send it Mike with 2,345
[01:03:59] McIntosh:
sets. Thanks. Send it. Mike? Mike? Mike? Mike?
[01:04:05] Kenshin:
Did he have a note? Yeah. He said, no sad puppy this week.
[01:04:10] McIntosh:
And he's right about that. I see it comes up. I will put the happy puppy up. And it did have butterflies, by the way. I saw it. Thanks,
[01:04:21] Kenshin:
Mike. Appreciate it. So he he says, I like the pairing of the last two episodes. Feels like 01/2002 to lightning and getting started. I could use a three zero three on how to use an old laptop to set up a lightning and Bitcoin node. Yes. I agree with you, Mike. I'd that's a great idea.
[01:04:41] McIntosh:
We need to put that on our list, Kenshin, and I need to mull that over. I've actually got some thoughts about all I know that's amazing that Macintosh just has random thoughts, But yeah. Let's talk about that. I don't know that that'll fit the audio format, but we can maybe talk about it and then point them towards some something online. Right? I think there'll be a lot of well, I don't know. Let's just talk about it. Awesome. Thank you, Mike. That he said he continues a bit. He says, I use lightning mostly just to zap.
[01:05:15] Kenshin:
And when friends buy food for the office or I owe someone a few bucks for something, I get them on Aqua,
[01:05:24] McIntosh:
the wallet,
[01:05:25] Kenshin:
and send the SUDs to pay them back. So that's interesting. So you're using Aqua, which I like,
[01:05:32] McIntosh:
as a small wallet, as a hot wallet, essentially, just like any lightning wallet. Very cool. We need to talk about that a little more. It's backed. It uses the liquid network. It's not backed by liquid, but it is an interesting way to maybe even gain a little more privacy. Mhmm. So, yeah, we should probably talk about that particular item at some point as well. Not enough episodes though.
[01:06:02] Kenshin:
No. Alright? And then we have another interesting zap from Bullish Clips. Three hundred thirty three sets.
[01:06:11] McIntosh:
Thank you.
[01:06:13] Kenshin:
Enjoyed the show, gents. I've got a shop that's powered by albihab and Bitcoin connect. Very bullish. On lightning. And then his, web shop is called Bullish one second.
[01:06:30] McIntosh:
If we've got a link, we will show that. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. Bullish.space. Okay. Bullish.space. Let me bring that up real quick.
[01:06:41] Kenshin:
Oh, yeah. I know him. He's a Nostor. We interrupt with a Nostor. Great.
[01:06:46] McIntosh:
Well, we'll put the link in the show notes, so that will be available. So I appreciate that. I don't think there were any more boost, for this week, but we certainly appreciate that support. We are look. We're going in a long tension. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to move this along. I wanna go through these software updates. There's some really good things. And HRF, Human Rights Foundation, has awarded all of their Bitcoin bounties. I did wanna say this. I love the HRF. I'd like to get, what's his name? It starts with an a. Is it Alex? The founder or not? He may not be the founder, but, shoot. He wrote a book. Actually, I think he wrote more than one.
I'm drawn to complete the Gladstein? Gladstein. Yes. I'd love to get him on the podcast at some point, but this is a great work. And they are supporting Bitcoin development. So if you are doing coding and whatever, this isn't something you wanna check out for sure. Okay? I love some of the work that they're doing, and they don't seem to play favorites. I'll they are literally supporting people kind of not I don't wanna say on both sides of things, but, like, I'm sure there's people in Russia that they're supporting, with Bitcoin work and people in the Ukraine.
Same thing. Right? They're not promoting Russia over the Ukraine or vice versa. It's that's not what it's about, but they are supporting people who are doing privacy work, who are doing, I don't know, work against autocratic governments or whatever. Right? I don't know. Lots of stuff going on there. Always interesting to hear from them. So let's run through you shortened up the list, didn't you? Did you just do that? Yeah. I did. It wasn't the old one. I'm like, something just disappeared. Alright. I'm gonna briefly mention this Proton wallet, and I'll do and you're still deleting things.
I'm gonna briefly mention this. I do wanna make people aware of it. Proton is a, like, a secure email service. They've been around for years. They are getting into Bitcoin. This wallet that they're building is open source, which I applaud. I'd have no experience with it, and I don't use ProtonMail. Maybe I should, but I don't. And so we will have a link to it if it's something that is of interest. I assume that this works separate from their setup. I I think there's some integrations.
[01:09:33] Kenshin:
There is an integration. Yeah. You can actually send, sites to
[01:09:40] McIntosh:
email accounts. Right. If you have some Proton accounts. Right. So they've got something set up at the background, essentially, which is that's cool. But I think you could probably use it separate from that. So it may be something you wanna check out. I love the open source nature of it. Mhmm. So why don't you go ahead and do,
[01:09:59] Kenshin:
those last two? AlpiGo, is the Albi Wallet that, interfaces with the Albi Hub. It's a great, wallet lightning wallet. Very simple. And now with the new release, it's a very big release. It introduces push notifications. Okay. So every time, even when you zap, you get a notification, you use up this amount. And, of course, when you receive as well. Right. And, also, you can pay now zero amount invoices. And this happened to me. I needed to log in to a service. And to log in with Lightning, you essentially pay a zero amount invoice to do that. Cool. And I couldn't do it. And I was thinking, shit. My my albhi hub is not working properly. But it was not possible to do it, it seems. So so now it is.
[01:10:52] McIntosh:
And a few other improvements. Yeah. And we got a new version of Primal as well.
[01:10:57] Kenshin:
What is the NWC support? What what It's in Master Wallet Connect. Right? Yes. Master Wallet Connect. So now if you have a Primal account and you're using their Primal Wallet Mhmm. Now you can, take that NWC
[01:11:13] McIntosh:
and use Primal Wallet with other Master apps as well. Very cool. Cool. So you can move between Nostra apps. And So you could make that Primal Wallet your kind of main wallet and hook it into all those Nostra clients. Right? Yeah.
[01:11:26] Kenshin:
I don't like it because you cannot customize it unless you pay premium.
[01:11:31] McIntosh:
Yeah. Not a fan of that myself either. I would love to see somebody like Primal, and I this isn't gonna happen, but, you know, they should go value for value and just, hey. You can have it for free. We'd love your support. I know that it's difficult. I get it. But it just builds a different set of incentives. So Yeah. Hey. We've been at it for over an hour, and I'm gonna we're gonna draw this up to a close. I don't wanna I don't wanna go too long. We'd I'm not gonna do my normal wrap up, but you guys, you know, we're a value for value podcast. We do depend on people like Mike and Bullish Clips. Glad to see you, Bullish Clips. I think you're new. I do not remember ever seeing you boost in before.
Regardless of whether that was your first episode or your hundredth episode of listening, we appreciate it. We appreciate all of our supporters, and you don't even have to boost, by the way, to support this show. One of the best ways you can do that is simply to turn to somebody and say, hey. Take a listen to Stoshi's Plebs. You know? These guys are, I don't know, down to earth. Some people might say a few other words, but, you know, I do give credence to the fact that anybody can do this because if I did it, then so can you. I mean, frankly. Anyways, we would love to have the message of, you know, Satoshi's Club be spread like that.
So how do you get ahold of us? Go to our episodes page, satoshis-plebs.com/episodes, and then just click on a mess on an episode, whatever the latest one happens to be. We have our support listed at the bottom of that. All the different ways you can you can, get a hold of us. And I would strongly encourage you if you are not on Noster, this would be a great opportunity for you to get on there. Follow our our page, and, yes, we're gonna show our stuff, but you're gonna get zaps, or a zap of 210 or so if you comment and repost that. So it's a great way to you to go ahead and get some sats in your, Nostra wallet. Okay?
[01:13:57] Kenshin:
Mhmm.
[01:13:59] McIntosh:
You got anything you wanna add, Kenshin?
[01:14:02] Kenshin:
No. Well said.
[01:14:03] McIntosh:
Okay. If they are curious how to start a Nostra account, again, we described that in the last episode. Yeah. And we have a page set up. I think it's, satoshi's dash pubs dot com slash nostra that might be helpful as as well. Thanks for being here. As always, I hope this has been helpful. And like I said, just go to the episode page to get a hold of us. Stay humble friends. Go out. Make it a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.
