Music Credits
Protofunk by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4247-protofunk
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Ethernight Club by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/7612-ethernight-club
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
This isn't an episode about the weather really. But McIntosh was tangled up in the "snowstorm of the century" that snarled the entire southeast except the lower part of Florida. In addition to the brief snow talk we discuss the trust tradeoffs of using ecash based-systems like Cashu and Fediment. Scaling the Bitcoin mainchain is going to require layers and ecash-based systems backed by Bitcoin will be part of that future.
Ross is free and that's important. Other news and notes to round things out!
Bitcoin Price at Time of Recording
January 22nd, 2025: 104,700 USD | 100,500 EUR
Block Height at Time of Recording
880,383
News and Notes
Ross is Free!!!
Trump's Memecoin
Music Credits
Protofunk by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4247-protofunk
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Ethernight Club by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/7612-ethernight-club
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Website
https://satoshis-plebs.com
Podcasting 2.0 Apps available at http://podcastapps.com and Value4Value information page available here: https://value4value.info
McIntosh can be reached by email at [email protected] and on Twitter at @McIntoshFinTech. His mastodon handle is @[email protected] and his Nostr. Kenshin can be reached on Twitter at @kenshin_ninja or on Nostr. Kenshin’s email is [email protected]. You can also follow the Satoshi’s Plebs podcast account on Nostr. We are looking forward to hearing from you!
We are looking forward to hearing from you!
[00:00:00]
McIntosh:
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is January 24th, and this is episode 194 of satoshi's plebs. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin.
[00:00:09] McIntosh:
And today's episode is snowpocalypse. Alright. It's been a humdinger as we would say, and, wow. This is gonna be an interesting episode. This will be either really good or it's gonna be really bad, and you're gonna be, like, skipping ahead. How are you, sir? Well, I'm good. But most importantly, what happened over there? We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Before we do, let's talk about the Bitcoin price. As we record here on January 22, 2025, we have a $104,700 USD price.
[00:01:22] Kenshin:
Right. And a €100,500.
[00:01:25] McIntosh:
See, I just need to get a hold of some of those euros, man. You guys got it cheap over there. Mhmm. That's all there is to that. It's more valuable. And our block height is more valuable. So the Canadian dollar, on the other hand, it's like a 150. I don't know if you tracked that one, but it's nuts. It's like a 150,000. The block height as we record is 880,383.
[00:01:50] Kenshin:
Right. And we have a difficulty adjustment of upcoming around minus 2.1. Estimated January 27th. So we that means the blocks are coming in approximately 10 minutes into 10.2 minutes Right. On average. So
[00:02:10] McIntosh:
so they're a bit slow. Right. And our previous adjustment was 0.61% up, and I do not offhand know the date that that was, but it wasn't too long ago. Oh, we have got some 20 days ago. Oh, it has been a while. We do have some stuff going on in the mempool, though. It looks like our fees are up. How much is a transaction going to cost me, Kenshin?
[00:02:36] Kenshin:
Well, right now it's gonna cost you in low priority, 0.6 dollars.
[00:02:41] McIntosh:
Okay.
[00:02:42] Kenshin:
The the fees just changed. So right now there are 4, 5, and 6 low, medium, and high priority. So it's not so bad as a I wonder what's going on. Oh, okay. So I see. So it didn't go back. Yeah. There must have been something happening, though.
[00:02:56] McIntosh:
And so 4, 5, and 6 SaaS per v byte. How many, unprocessed transactions we got?
[00:03:04] Kenshin:
Yeah. We have approximately where did it go? 120,000 unprocessed transactions and 340 megabytes in the mempool.
[00:03:15] McIntosh:
We are getting lower. I don't think it's gonna empty. No. It could. Hey. I so let's talk about this week. I wanna go ahead and open up. I can't I I'm sorry. I just can't. This is what has been going on this week in my life, frankly, has been crazy. So, in addition to a big work project, which, in theory ended today, which really didn't, but we made a big milestone. We got a lot of snow in the southeast. And, you know, just in general, all across the southeastern region, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, they all got major amounts of snow. I know, for example, over in Mobile, Alabama on the Gulf Coast, the Civic Center, actually, the roof fell in, and I saw pictures of it. And it is spectacular.
Probably, I I don't know, 30, 40000 people, civic center. And I as far as I know, there was no one in it when it collapsed. But, yeah, the entire roof just collapsed down. Just craziness. Some areas were getting 10 inches of snow or more right down on the Gulf of Mexico, which is extremely unusual. I historic, literally. Which one? The Gulf of Where was this? Gulf of Mexico or as we like to say, the Gulf of America. Yeah. Right. I'm sorry. I didn't catch on to start with. I'm like, what? You don't know where the Gulf of Mexico is? I'm gonna continue to call it the Gulf of Mexico for now. I guess we'll see how that all turns out.
But, yes, lots of snow, ice, sleet, rain. Oh, funny thing. So I'm in one of the areas where it did snow, and in fact, we got a lot of it. But, it started snowing, and I was out driving around, which maybe I shouldn't have been, but I was. And we have a saying, you know, the postal service rain neither rain nor sleet nor snow will keep it from its appointed rounds or something like that. And snow is coming down. Right? Just you know, we're we're getting a pretty regular snowfall. And I look up, and there's the UPS or the postal service USPS truck going down the road delivering the mail. I will say that that statement did not hold true, though, because we did not get our mail yesterday.
I doubt we will get it today. I'm hopeful we will get it tomorrow. So, the roads are kind of a mess, and, you know, things are just kinda crazy because we're not really used to this. So it's been fun. Kids have been out of school, all of that kind of stuff. So and now we're all a little stir crazy and getting angry at each other. So I guess that's where we're at. So how are things going with you, Kenshin?
[00:06:18] Kenshin:
Well, I'm in the opposite boat. We don't have snow. No snow, which is a pleasant surprise around here. Everything melted. We have rain for once in January, so I'm happy. No one else is. No one else. But, for me, it's no snow shoveling
[00:06:37] McIntosh:
this month, I think. So that's quite good so far. Well, there's what? Nine more days left, so we'll have to see if that holds out.
[00:06:46] Kenshin:
Yeah. We might go skiing, so we will see snow. I think it's go up into the into the mountains?
[00:06:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. I was telling my wife as we were sitting there with the fire going. I said, you know, the only thing that would make this better if we were in a little cabin down by the creek up in the mountains with the amount of snow that we had. You know? It would have been nice, but we weren't, but it was still nice. It was great. Alright. Alright. So where are we at? I don't I'm I'm man, what a week. We
[00:07:23] Kenshin:
How does it feel? How are the feelings? Are we doing this now? Absolutely.
[00:07:29] McIntosh:
The inauguration. I promise we won't stay on this too long. So, yes, we have a new president, the 47th president of the United States, Donald John Trump, which I did not know that that was his middle name. I watched the actual inauguration, and when he took the oath of office, he actually they said that. And I was like, what? I thought that was a little funny. It's actually about what I expected. So we'll go ahead and talk about some of our news. I know something that was super important, I think, to you, to a lot of Bitcoiners in general, and for a good reason, certainly.
He did free Ross. So why don't you fill in a little bit on what that really means?
[00:08:20] Kenshin:
Yeah. I mean, we woke up this morning in Europe at least and see the news that he freed Ross because we expected that maybe to happen the day before. But I guess during inauguration day, maybe they didn't Yeah. Have time to go to those topics. I'm not for sure. But yeah. So I'm not sure. No. But I mean, that was huge. The biggest part was Mhmm. First that he kept the promise and that gave a good signal because after some other things that we will talk about later, that happened with, with Trump, some, some others, the mood was a bit low, I would say.
[00:09:00] McIntosh:
Anyway, some other things. Yeah. No, he did keep that promise and he made that promise. I, he did make that promise at the Bitcoin convention. I think that was the first place where he actually said that. So he no?
[00:09:16] Kenshin:
Actually, no. I saw I was looking at Ross's tweets, and he mentioned that in May last year. So that was before. So he promised that May last year. And the the for me, the most surprising thing is that we were all expecting to have his sentence commuted, but instead he gave a full pardon.
[00:09:39] McIntosh:
It was interesting. So that's That would certainly help him out. He'll be able to travel freely and do whatever he wants, essentially. He won't have a criminal record. For those of you who don't really know what we were talking about Yeah. Ross was the creator of the Silk Road, which was on the dark web, whatever that means. I've never quite understood what are these, like, hidden websites? I I know what Tor is, and and I've used Tor before. And but this was not on Tor. Right? It was just a regular website, or did I?
[00:10:17] Kenshin:
Okay. I I don't remember. It might have been only tour, but the thing that it's not it's not hidden. It's just indexed. It's just not indexed. It's like yeah. It's like your personal website. Yeah. So if you have a website in your in your home server, that's not that's not indexed. That's in on the dark web. So he was selling,
[00:10:41] McIntosh:
a marketplace, and and there was all kinds of things for sale on there. Books and just all and some things that were illegal. And and that's what got him in trouble.
[00:10:57] Kenshin:
He was considered, yeah, he was considered that he was selling them or assisting on the sales or something.
[00:11:06] McIntosh:
Even give even given that, the reality is he was put in prison for 2 life sentences or something crazy. Like, there was no chance of parole, anything like that. He was very young. He was in his
[00:11:23] Kenshin:
He he was Right. So he was 26. Now he's it's 11 years. Right?
[00:11:28] McIntosh:
So so Yeah. Almost 12. 36, 37. Somewhere right around there. So he's still in his late thirties. Fortunately, as someone who has trouble remembering his late thirties, I would say that he has a lot of life left to live, so he can go out and and do things, you know, and live his life. I think the punishment, frankly, was way out of line for the crime that even that they felt like he committed. I'm not gonna argue whether he did or not. The reality is the punishment was he was being made an example of. Okay? It's the best way I would put it. And so it's, in my opinion, not a bad thing that that Trump, commuted his sentence. I think 11 years was quite sufficient.
Plus, they took all the Bitcoin, that was involved in that, and I do not think that will be given back to him. And And it was a lot. It was like a 100,000 or more Bitcoin.
[00:12:32] Kenshin:
More. Yeah. So,
[00:12:35] McIntosh:
that was the big news. Now we did not get a strategic Bitcoin reserve at least as of a couple of hours ago. I have not been on Twitter lately. But I will say this. I will mention this as someone who's on Twitter probably more than they should be. People on Twitter, Bitcoin people on Twitter were losing their minds during the 1st day after so Trump got inaugurated at 12 noon. And by, like, 10 o'clock at night, I mean, they're just like, I can't believe he's not, you know, setting Ross free. And I'm like, do you realize how much this guy has to deal well, for one thing, he had balls to go to and stuff like that. But he did sign a lot of executive orders. Okay?
And and you could even you could argue, he said day 1 didn't really happen. It didn't happen in 24 hours. It would I don't think it was by 12 o'clock the next day. It was it was in the afternoon that, Tuesday afternoon, at some point. So and that's why you woke up to the news because it was the middle of the night already for you. So you kind of missed that. And no. I mean, I suppose not, and maybe it would have been best if he was but it's done. And so let's move on. These are politicians that we're dealing with, people. Don't give them any credence, and you're better off, frankly.
So we will see. It does seem, given some of the executive orders that he's already given, that he will be a very crypto friendly, administration as we expected. Hester Prynne, one of them I saw, she was being put in charge of I think it was the operation 2 point o choke point, choke point 2 point o, whatever they call it. Here it is. The SEC launches a dedicated crypto task force led by commissioner Hester Pierce. I think I said her name wrong. Sorry, miss Pierce. To bring clarity and fairness to crypto regulation, a step towards protecting investors and fostering innovative responsibility. Now I will tell you this. I'm no SCC expert other than knowing that it was time for Gary Gensler to leave.
But what I have heard from Hester Pierce, I have it was thoughtful and balanced and fair. So I'm glad to see that she's being put in charge of this. So it does look like a lot of the things that Trump, has basically promised that he's going to do. And you may not like all of those. I'll just go ahead and throw out. For example, my understanding is they are already starting to deport people who are in the United States illegally. You can call them whatever you want, but they're not here, legally. That's one of the things he said he was gonna do, and that's what they're doing. So I believe we still will see a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I don't think it will take months. It may take weeks, but I think it will happen.
And I am I don't wanna say excited, but I think this was a step in the right direction. I think it would have been worse if things if he had not been elected. I'll put it that way. RFK, even though I really like him and like his thoughts, had no chance of getting elected. So it was either the Republican or the Democrat. And, frankly, the Democrats have had their chance, and they've shown their hand. And it's not a pretty hand, and I don't want anything to do with it in terms of crypto.
[00:16:26] Kenshin:
I have a question. Mhmm. I have a question that I want to ask the audience also, and I want to put on like, online sort of question. Boost it in, people. It's like, do you prefer a no coiner
[00:16:42] McIntosh:
Mhmm.
[00:16:43] Kenshin:
President or a meme coiner? Oh. President. But not a Bitcoiner. But not a Bitcoiner.
[00:16:52] McIntosh:
That's a great question.
[00:16:54] Kenshin:
I don't know. I I think right now, but we will see how it plays out. But, I should have mentioned this. I apologize. But, of course,
[00:17:05] McIntosh:
like, literally right after he got in no. Before day before or something. Yeah. And I actually think that was on purpose. I saw a plausible setup for that, because there is a clause in the constitution, or I think it's the constitution, about how the president cannot basically benefit from Yeah. What's the word? Self promotion. I don't know. But he did that right before his inauguration, and I think it was to kinda stay out of legal trouble. So he he launched a meme coin and then supposed now let's be honest. He didn't do it. Either one of his kids was in charge of it or even an entirely separate group of people or company or whatever. And then his wife did shortly after that. And neither one of them they're look. They're just meme coins, and they're on Solana even. And I don't I just don't care. I don't.
I've been on here very consistently telling you people this is not the kind of thing you should invest in. I hope you did not do so. If you did and you were in profit, you should sell. Yeah. That's all I'm gonna say about that because there's really nothing else to say. And, yes, it's disappointing, but frankly, it's not surprising. You and I were talking about this prior to the to starting to record. Bitcoin Bitcoin. Trump is not a Bitcoin maximalist. Trump is not I'm not even sure he fully understands Bitcoin. I do think he thinks it's a great store of value, and that's about the extent of it. And he is just trying to make a quick buck. Let's be honest.
And he did. They made half a $1,000,000,000, which is insane because they pulled that out at the top and rugged a bunch of people as far as I can tell.
[00:19:05] Kenshin:
Yeah. And we had an episode why Bitcoin is not crypto. So we had, all those points in that episode as well. And all about the pre mine one of those points,
[00:19:15] McIntosh:
here in just a few minutes with some of the news, and I'll leave that for the news. But, yeah, this is just another example. This is just not something this it's just garbage. There's no utility to this. It's there's no way a 100 years from now this is gonna be worth more than it is now. It's just not gonna happen.
[00:19:33] Kenshin:
So No. A a day after, it's not worth it. It's worth
[00:19:37] McIntosh:
I haven't been tracking it. I have no idea what it's doing, and, frankly, I just don't care because I know ultimately where it goes. Right? Yeah. So alright. Very good. So we've got our question. We do have that. And we talked about the Trump coin. Great. And okay. So I think it's actually time to jump into our topic. Ken Chen, are you ready for that? Yeah. Let's do it. So what are we talking about today? It's not the snowpocalypse. I'm sorry. That was just a catchy title that probably won't get us any traction, but okay. What are we talking about?
[00:20:15] Kenshin:
So let's talk a little bit about decentralizing information and how we can, get people, let's say, to places like Nostra and how they can use their how they can use a new layer 2 technologies on those platforms like, lightning and e cash and Cashew.
[00:20:35] McIntosh:
So we haven't talked a whole lot about e cash and Cashew. In fact, I was looking back. I I talked about Fedimint back in 2023. So it's been a bit, and it was like May. So almost 2 years now. So we probably need to cover that in in some depth. Lightning in general, is a layer 2 technology. And what we mean by that is you've got your Bitcoin main chain. Right? Your main net, whatever you wanna call it. And these are technologies that are built on top of that, whether that's lightning, which you use channels, fun little concept, to lock up funds on the main chain. And that's kind of the way that you peg in and peg out of that little system.
That's been around, I wanna say, since 2017, maybe even a little bit earlier than that. At this point, I would say it's pretty good. It's not delivered on this promise of kind of everyone could get a lightning node, and it's gonna be super easy. Liquidity, frankly, is difficult to manage on that system. And there are enough bugs at least as of a year ago. And this is one of the reasons I wanna set up a new node. That just keeping your channels open was a problem. And if fees are high on the network when you open and close channels, that costs money, real money, and you need to be careful about that. So we don't want those failing due to bugs.
So, there's some issues. I don't know. I wanted to go back to one of the things that you and I were talking about before we started recording. Whatever the technology is, and I do believe it will be a mix of things personally. We do know that the base layer, the main net cannot support the world's population. There's 8,000,000,000 plus people on this planet and growing. We cannot support every person on the main net and that's just the reality. So from an engineering standpoint, you can look at the throughput of the network, the the block size, the block timings. Even if we started adjusting some of those things, you're not getting anywhere close to that level of throughput, and that means that that main net space as Bitcoin adoption grows, it will get very, very expensive.
I don't it's not gonna get difficult to use, but it will get expensive. Right? Because if more and more people are competing for that, then it has to. It's the only choice that it's the only option. Right? So the way that we get around that is we build on top of that. That's the whole layer too. How we do that, that's a that is a discussion, and that's been an ongoing discussion for years at this point. And it's not going to be solved anytime soon.
[00:23:59] Kenshin:
Right. Yeah. And we have a few different ways. Like you said, we have the lightning. We have the cashew now, the pediments. So which ones?
[00:24:09] McIntosh:
Oh, and we haven't even mentioned ARC, which is a relatively new technology. I wanna say it's been around about a year. Right. They're just now getting kind of beta product out there. It's definitely not ready for prime time. ARK like Noah's Ark. And then one more that we should throw in there even if in passing is liquid. I'm not aware of any other I think there are some others, actually, but they're so minuscule at this point that it doesn't actually matter. There's a mercury, if I'm not mistaken, and I am going out on a limb here. So if I get that wrong, please don't hold it against me. But, like, there's a mercury layer.
I'm
[00:24:54] Kenshin:
not familiar with it. I know the liquid, of course. Think
[00:24:59] McIntosh:
of. So let's talk about liquid for just a second. I wanna look this up.
[00:25:04] Kenshin:
So lick liquid is from, Block stream. Block stream is a company founded by Adam Buck, who made the proof of work if I'm not mistaken.
[00:25:16] McIntosh:
Hash cash. Mhmm.
[00:25:18] Kenshin:
Yeah. And he's so she has the block stream green, also the wallet, and a few hardware wallets. So the green is a software.
[00:25:28] McIntosh:
Aqua is another wallet that works with it. That's not from them. It's one of the first examples of a non block stream wallet that works with liquid. And from what I hear, no, I've not used it. But from what I hear, it works very well.
[00:25:44] Kenshin:
Yeah. I I I've used it. It's and it supports liquid and lightning. So you can Right. Send between them and
[00:25:50] McIntosh:
That is
[00:25:51] Kenshin:
quite that is quite good.
[00:25:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. So there is a Mercury layer too, by the way. And and I'm telling you, it's so beta that that's why you don't know anything about it. It allows for the secure transfer of coins without on chain transactions based on state chains and uses blinded cosigning and key cycling technology, and that's right out of Google. So please take it with a grain of salt. But, yes, there are probably multiple projects like that. You could throw, one of those things called drive chains in there as well. A technology that is just mind bogglingly stupid to me, but, god, I do not wanna get in an argument with Paul, whatever his name is, about it because he'll just beat you up with words.
And I just don't even have a desire. I I don't understand other than he's making money off of it, and that's it. That's that's kind of my synopsis. And he is. He's got grants and whatever, so don't be mistaken about that. There is an incentive there. Drive chains, fun stuff. Mercury, I'm not aware of any others, but I'm sure there will be other technologies that come along. So we need to talk about these so that people are aware. Because over the next decade or 2 decades, more and more people will migrate off of that. Right.
So one of the ones I mean, we've talked about lightning or I've talked about lightning a number of times. We've mentioned it before on previous podcasts. I am actually this year, and I do and before I leave lightning, like I said, I don't know. It was on my list of goals. I do wanna get a lightning node set up, and we'll probably talk about that some more as that happens this year. But one of the things that I am very curious about, and, I wanted to kinda dig in on today's episode, is the e cache, setup. So let's talk about e cache and these different implementations for just a
[00:27:59] Kenshin:
minute. Yeah. And for lightning before we go completely to e cash as, I was a bit afraid of it a couple of years ago. I tried it and,
[00:28:12] McIntosh:
Have you lost any money on it?
[00:28:15] Kenshin:
No. But it's very expensive to manage the channels if you don't know. So you lost money on it? Yeah.
[00:28:22] McIntosh:
Right. And I've done the same thing. And that's actually why I stopped messing with it previously is because I had some channels that went down. Fees were stupid back then, and I'm just like, this is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It was still too buggy, and they have continued to work on it. I think a lot of improvements have been made, and that's why I kinda wanna get back on the on the bandwagon. I don't have any interest in you know, there's lightning service providers. There's these kind of things. I just don't wanna pay somebody else to manage infrastructure for me. There are people who that makes a lot of sense for. In my case, maybe not. I don't know.
[00:29:01] Kenshin:
Mhmm. I I personally run the self hosted albhab. So I pay them no no fees. Yeah. And I manage it myself and I learned now how to manage the channel. So it hasn't been expensive in that sense. It only cost me a Bitcoin transaction fee.
[00:29:17] McIntosh:
Right. And that's what I'm saying. If at the right time, that's what it should be.
[00:29:23] Kenshin:
Yeah. Great. So right now it works and I used a lot in that sense, and I use it with family members as well. I have made them wallets in my note. But of course, we talked a bit about this earlier. They need to trust me in that sense. So there is a trust vector
[00:29:40] McIntosh:
and We're gonna talk about that some more in just a minute. So let's not dig too deep into that. Mhmm.
[00:29:46] Kenshin:
Yep. That's the trust symbol. Yeah. But current lightning status is more or less what it was, but I a lot more tools to help out, I think.
[00:29:56] McIntosh:
So I do wanna take a few minutes and dig into e cash, because whether we like it or not, and that's up to us to decide, but it is here. I do see it as being part of the Bitcoin ecosystem in the long term. So real simply before we get off into the kind of 2 different products of eCash, let's talk about what eCash actually is. So eCash has actually it's the oldest form of digital currency, which I always that's just fascinating to me. We've kind of resurrected it. It has a long history back to the eighties, by a guy named, David. David.
Chom? Is it Chom? I always I'm not quite sure. It's called Chomian eCash, and it's named after him. And it's a way to basically sign transactions and whatever without actually knowing who it's for, and I believe even the amount. Now I know it's for who it's for and who sent it, that kind of thing. So there's anonymity built into this system. Okay? The early implementations of it had a lot of flaws. That's why it ended up dying. I don't think Just to give you an idea, this actually was funny. Not funny. It could have changed history. It was, like, literally, like, this close to like, really, really close. You guys can't see my video.
Of being included with Windows 95.
[00:31:45] Kenshin:
Oh.
[00:31:46] McIntosh:
As like a Chobian e cash wallet, and every Windows 95 computer would have had that as a wallet. And if you don't think that would have kick started mass adoption of eCash okay. We're gonna agree to disagree. Alright? Because e cash would have exploded. Now it did not. People can argue about why or why not. It doesn't matter. It was never included, and it ended up dying after that. Now David Chum is still actually around, interestingly enough. Although to my knowledge, he has not gotten involved with Bitcoin and e cash. So maybe he should jump on the bandwagon. I'm just throwing that out there. He's probably off in his, like, lair because he has money. I'm sure he made some money off of all that. He's over there, you know, like, hacking up some great solution, and he's gonna pull it out right in we'll see. Kenshin didn't like that. Alright. Anyways
[00:32:49] Kenshin:
I'm reading.
[00:32:52] McIntosh:
Okay. But, yes, there are 2 basic implementations right now of ECash. So we've got this blinded signing. We've got privacy built in functions, and that's about as deep as I'm gonna go because I don't wanna bore y'all. But there are 2 implementations. 1 is called, FettiMint, and we'll talk about that. And there's one that's called Cashew, and we'll talk about that. They are similar in what they do. And my understanding is they're even becoming interoperable. So I can, like, send e cash from a Cashew wallet to a Fedimint. Now I may be wrong about that. I don't think so.
[00:33:34] Kenshin:
I think you're right, but I haven't tried it.
[00:33:37] McIntosh:
So but they are actually implemented in 2 fundamentally different, methods, and we wanted to cover that in case you start coming across e cash. I would actually now maybe Kenshin wouldn't at this point, and we do need to talk about kind of the pros and cons of this. But I would actually encourage you to consider at least fiddling around with this, if you wanna call it that. Right? Put a small amount of money in one of these and and see how it works. Do your own research. This is not financial advice. And I would say very very muchly.
That is not good English. I would say you very likely could lose that money. Okay? So keep that in mind. Fedimint, It stands for Federated Mint, and what that means is there are a number of organizations, companies, or individuals that are involved that are used to set up this mint. And what that does mean is that basically, let's say you have, I don't know, a 1000 people who put money in this mint. Okay? Maybe there's 10 Bitcoin worth of mint. That's not mint. Maybe there's 10 Bitcoin worth of of reserve. Reserve. Thank you. Gosh, man. Like, I know English is not your first language, and you did that better than I did. Gosh. Yes. In the reserve.
Words elude me. And to to rug that, to pull that out, if you had 6 members, I think 4 of them would have to agree to that.
[00:35:35] Kenshin:
They would have to So it's like a multisig?
[00:35:37] McIntosh:
Yes. It's like a multisig. They would have to collaborate. And so what that does, it brings security. It brings it builds trust, and we're gonna talk about trust more in just a second. But it builds trust. Okay? You put your money in, and you sleep safely, soundly knowing that your money is safe. Now, on the other hand, Cashew, there's one person, one company, one organization behind that. It's not federated. And that does mean that if there's a bad actor, they can pull the reserves and leave you high and dry, much easier.
Now that could be viewed as a that is a drawback. It also makes it much simpler to operate, and that's the whole idea. Calle is the name of the guy, and I don't know where he's from. I think from somewhere in South America. That'd be my guess. But regardless regardless, he wants it simple, and that's his one of his big goals, and I get that. With Fedimint, on the other hand, there's more complexity. There's less of a chance of getting rugged, but we have seen multiple failures of those systems essentially because of their complexity. So there was a DNS issue at one point with a major fundament, and I think they managed to keep it up long enough or they fixed they actually patched the code is what they did. So they did the right thing. They patched the code to fix this DNS issue because some domain names had actually gotten white blacklisted or whatever, and they were not resolving.
They patched the code so that that was not a problem, and they were so people were able to get their money out. But again, the complexity of that system was creating a problem that simply would not have been there in Cashew. Does that make sense, Kenshin?
[00:37:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. I think so. But as you said, it's a single point of failure, then you can have other points of failure in cash. And it's the same with liquid. I want to say that liquid is also a federated system. I don't know. 6 or 9 or something. No. Liquid is also single company behind it. It's Blockstream.
[00:38:07] McIntosh:
Is a single company, but there are other companies that are involved essentially as validators. Look look that up. Oh, okay. Yes. So that you're right. There's a single company doing the development, and that is block block or Blockstream. I think it's Blockstream. Blockstream. Right? So they're doing the development. But in their case, the validators are spread across multiple companies. Okay? So dig into that real quick. I am gonna start talking about trust because that is the important part of this. Now in either case, whether it's a feta or whether it's a cashew mice or whether it's liquid, let's just throw that in there, my suggestion is you only put a small amount of money in there. If you're comfortable walking around town let's say you're comfortable walking around kind of the the seedy part of town with a $100 in your wallet.
Because you know if you lose your wallet, a $100 is not gonna kill you. I wouldn't put more than that in one of these at this point until I was super comfortable with what was going on, until that feta mint or cashew mint or whatever or or liquid, until they had been online and operating and solved issues or whatever for some period of time. And I don't mean a couple of weeks or a couple of months. I mean, years. There's no reason for you to have $10,000 in e cash on Cashew. That's just nuts. Put that on the main chain at this point. That's a that's a tenth of a Bitcoin. Right?
And by the way, you're essentially transferring in and out of Bitcoin. Is that correct, Kenshin, on these mints? I think they're starting to do other token as well. Well, liquid, they have their own setup. Right?
[00:40:08] Kenshin:
They're swapping and swap outs. Yeah. And that, that incurs a cost also.
[00:40:15] McIntosh:
So it is on the main chain. Yeah. But if you have a significant amount of money, did I just no. If you have $10,000, that's 1 tenth of that's 10% of a Bitcoin. That needs to be on the main chain right now. Don't even hesitate. Okay? You should not have that on lightning unless you are running a professional lightning node, that you are managing. You just should not have that kind of money available on any of these layer 2 systems regardless. That's just that's not smart. Okay? That's my financial advice. But, you know, if you're comfortable with a $100 or whatever or 20, then have it on there and don't worry about it. You know, if you're on a newer system, then you if it were liquid, I probably, at this point, wouldn't worry about it too much at all. If I were on some Fedimint, they probably are gonna have some Twitter feed or a Discord group or something. I would probably keep my eye on that in case they do have a problem, like the DNS issues that we solve with this one Fedimint. Okay?
Because they were they did the right thing. They told their customers. They worked through the process, and they let everybody know what was going on. So, so, yeah, what is your opinion about the trust in all this, Kenshin?
[00:41:39] Kenshin:
Well, especially with those federations, it feels like, as you said, there are custodials. And in many of those cases, you don't know them. So you you set up essentially multisig with an unknown people. Mhmm. And of course, you can set up a federation with with friends of yours or family or whatever. So in that case, maybe it's better, but I feel a bit uneasy having someone to trust when we we have been told all those years don't trust verify. Right. So it goes Bitcoin. Anybody can hold it without any trust from anybody. And now in layer 2, even with Lightning, it requires some sort of trust. So I don't want to be completely strict with that because I run my own Lightning nodes and my family trusts me to run it. And they use the wallets that I have given them, and I can rag them at any point if I want to.
So there is trust there as well. So I don't know. It's the trust that you can accept, I would say.
[00:42:51] McIntosh:
Right. I think that's a good way of putting it too. And I would say this, it's these systems are not so much where we are right now because as we discussed at the very first part of the show, right now, I can send any amount of Bitcoin for 60¢. Okay? If I'm willing to wait, probably much less than that, say, 10, 20¢. On the other hand, 10 years from now, that may not be possible. The cheapest fees may be a $100. So how can I pay for my coffee? My $5 okay. Well, inflation. My $10 cup of coffee in 10 years. I think I'm being generous, but okay. My $10 cup of coffee in 10 years. If I'm paying a $100 in fees, that doesn't compute. So between now and then, we have to figure out something, whether it's improvement on these and acceptance of these because, hey, my cashew fetiment my cashew fetiment. I just smashed everything together.
My liquid cashew fetiment my my cashew mint, has been around for 10 years, so I do trust it. Well, I I don't know. I would my fed a mint if it had been around for 10 years. Because if if my bank has been around for 10 years, there has to be some level of trust there. Right? And I again, I'm not gonna throw 1,000 of dollars on that, but I'm gonna keep pocket change on there. Yeah. And, hopefully, we do things here's an idea. Right? Oh, main chain fees are really expensive. And I think there are actually people working on this. And this is not original to Macintosh because I'm just not that brilliant.
But in my FEDIMIP, we've got 10 people who want to move money to or from the main chain, but they're willing to wait 24 hours. Okay? So I got 10 people in a 24 hour period. What if we batched all those up, and that means that even if the fees were $100 at that time, everybody's only going to pay $10 because we batched the transaction, essentially, and we and we do that in a way that everybody's money is safe and secure and so on and so forth. I think with covenants, that's one of the things that we can accomplish. Not that we have covenants right now, but maybe in 10 years, we will. Right?
So those are some of the things that I believe we will see improvements on. But there's another idea right there because even if I do have to interact with the main chain, if I'm doing it with other people and we batch it all up, like if we carpool, right, we get there together and we save gas and we all have a good time. I don't know. We get in the carpool lane, right? Maybe we get there faster.
[00:46:04] Kenshin:
A lot of companies do that, I've used a few,
[00:46:08] McIntosh:
exchanges in Europe that do that. The exchange is implemented, but they're doing it kind of at a layer above. They're abstracting it out. What I'm talking about is this is well, maybe it is more of this. I don't know. But that is it does allow the point is it does allow for that type of thing. You're right. Yeah. Absolutely. Exchanges do that now. Pools do that. Ocean does that, actually, which they've done pretty good these days, by the way. I'm pretty pleased with that. But yeah.
[00:46:40] Kenshin:
And I agree with you. We we need layer twos and and we might eventually have layer threes and who knows how many layers. But, I agree. We will we will need them for sure. And one good way to use and do all those testing, I would say is go on Oster and make an account on Oster and starts make a wallet. Yeah. Even if it's cashew or lightning or something and start zapping people. That's it. Talk to us. We will zap you back.
[00:47:08] McIntosh:
The I from what I can tell, the Cashew integration, especially, is is happening in Nostriland. So, I am yeah. Sorry. That's definitely one good way. And just getting involved in Nostra more might be a good idea. But from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. 100%.
[00:47:34] Kenshin:
I follow the hashtag introductions on NoStar. So if you make, an account on NoStar, introduce yourself, put a hashtag introductions. Cool. And then a lot of people like me and others on NoStar look at look on this, follow this hashtag and these up the new users. And last week or a few days ago, when was it? It was an influx of 100 of people.
[00:48:00] McIntosh:
Was it from what is that? From TikTok? TikTok. Yes. Yeah.
[00:48:05] Kenshin:
So it was from TikTok. I, I, most of them didn't have a wallet. That's, that's why I want to say that you, you need to do a small research, make, make a wallet. The easiest wallet is, wallet of Satoshi. That's the easiest one, but it's custodial. So you don't need a node or anything. Right? It gives you random name. I mean, it's super easy. I mean, it couldn't be an easier app to, to make a wallet. And then, very cool. And then I would say the coinos, coinos.
[00:48:42] McIntosh:
Io. Yeah, I have heard of that. I don't really know anything about it. I tried it. It's quite good. It's it's, it's like wasabi,
[00:48:50] Kenshin:
very easy, but I think it gives you a lot more options. Let's say. So it's a step up.
[00:48:58] McIntosh:
Very cool. Alright. I lost my list. There we go. I think that's that's I think we've about got that covered. Mhmm.
[00:49:08] Kenshin:
Do we have any supporters? I think Had to send it to Mike? I think we do. Yeah.
[00:49:14] McIntosh:
Man, I we're gonna have to give him a medal of honor. Honor. Dude just does not stop. Alright. Let me double check because that only what you're only seeing is
[00:49:27] Kenshin:
is fountain. Yeah. I see fountain. And I see his comment on fountain.
[00:49:33] McIntosh:
Okay. Well, let's go ahead and start there while I'm bringing this up so that we don't have this big dead air space I cut out. Go ahead and Yeah. Do, do Mike's comment, please.
[00:49:43] Kenshin:
So from supporters, we have sent it Mike again this week with 1069 sets. And he says another good one. I appreciate you guys reading my strategic reserve take. I think a reserve of Bitcoin is important, but I think people overestimate how much good it will be for the US as a country and underestimate how quickly a move away from treasuries will happen and how bad that will be for our government. They will get desperate. They will not tolerate losing power. Right. So that's the comment. Thank you, Mike.
[00:50:23] McIntosh:
Yeah. I appreciate that. There's there's truth to that. I think that's certainly a possibility, and it's one that we should consider. And maybe I'm to an extent blocking that from my mind because I just don't like it. I'll I'll admit to that. It's going to be an interesting 20 years, ladies and gentlemen. And part of the problem when you talk about macroeconomics is, you know, we want I don't wanna say we want because this is typically bad stuff. But, you know, I've been on here talking for years about, the GDP versus debt and things like this. And, like, how can these countries continue? Like, Japan is just at this crazy level, and they've had one kind of, they tried to adjust their rates, and the market went nuts. And our market went nuts. And I view them as being trapped, but they may continue like that for a long time. I don't know.
These things tend to happen slower than we think, but then they once they get going, it's much quicker than we think, if that makes sense. Once they start. I believe, essentially, as a world, we are at a point where fiat is beyond its ability to recover. And it is simply a matter of how it's going to play out at this point. Yeah. Virtually every country in the world has so much debt compared to their GDP. It's just not possible for them to, to to fix that, or they're not going to do like Argentina did and go in and slash entrenched governmental agencies and this kind of thing. I mean, like, Malay removed, I wanna say, like, 13 governmental agencies.
Like, that'd be like us going in and saying, yeah. We don't need the, I don't know, the FBI and the, the USDA and all of this stuff. People a lot of countries that just would not work. Mhmm. It just people would I mean, we've actually seen this to on a very small scale in France. When they went and raised their retirement age, like, people went nuts. Uh-huh. Because they said, well, this just it's not possible for this to continue, and we're gonna raise it from a very low level, relatively speaking, to a slightly less lower level.
And, I mean, just people were protesting and all this and I don't know what the end the outcome of that was. But, man, that was just over retirement age. What if we start talking about health care and medic well, Medicare and health care and Social Security? I am of the age where Social Security is a thing for me, and I'm starting to think about it. And but the reality is for decades, I've just basically expected not to have a Social Security, which is our pension, our national pension, for those of you who aren't from here. And any amount that I get, whether it's a 100% or 80% or 50% or 25% will just be a bonus.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Absolutely. Because I'm not counting on it because I know the government doesn't manage money well. Yeah. Good. Well no. I think I said that right. Go English. Yeah. And for us here in Sweden, we have the opposite.
[00:54:28] Kenshin:
The government does the same exact thing, but people trust it so much. So no one complains. So when you say the people in France go out on the streets, demonstrate, here's the opposite. It's like, oh, okay. They changed that. I need to work for another year. No big deal. Slight inconvenience.
[00:54:46] McIntosh:
Wow. I wonder where that comes from. I've that's interesting. I know where ours comes from. I can't vouch for for France. I that's an interesting insight though. So it's essentially the the exact top. Is there, do you feel like there's a level where that's just not going to happen though? Like people, is there a level where people will say enough is enough? No, I haven't seen that is the opposite. They get deeper and deeper into believing
[00:55:18] Kenshin:
and agreeing everything the government, the mainstream media tells them. And that's why when you see, the approval ratings for Trump in Europe and, Sweden was on the top with most negative views, like 8 to 9% or whatever it was.
[00:55:37] McIntosh:
Don't worry. We'll buy Sweden too. Hopefully. I'm sorry. I should not have said that.
[00:55:43] Kenshin:
I'll cut that out. There's nothing valuable here. You can buy Norway. They have all the oil. Hey. You got some nice mountains.
[00:55:51] McIntosh:
Got some nice mountains. Gotta be some minerals under those mountains. Right? Yeah. No. Oh. I don't that's all that stuff is craziness to me. I don't I don't even
[00:56:02] Kenshin:
understand. You want to hear the newspaper front page they had to you 2 days ago? Sure. Absolutely. It was a paid ad as I understood, and they had the full page, with the whole Swedish map. I have posted it on Nostar, and it has all the the Swedish military bases. And they show Trump next to full page saying those are all the Swedish military bases Trump will have access to. And while what can he do on them? Will he smuggle illegal nuclear weapons in them? And that's the fear mongering and say, pay us and sign the petition so we can block which military basis he can get access to. That's the top, top newspaper, top newspaper in Sweden.
[00:56:59] McIntosh:
I gotta be honest. If you don't want Americans there
[00:57:03] Kenshin:
No. Sense. Swedes love Americans. It's crazy. It's the only country they think is better than them, literally.
[00:57:11] McIntosh:
But they're the complete opposite as far as I can tell. I don't know.
[00:57:15] Kenshin:
It's interesting. When it comes to Trump, it's it's it's crazy. The negativity here.
[00:57:22] McIntosh:
Well, I don't wanna turn this into political podcast. We already do that too much, but that it is very interesting. Very interesting. And by the way, I did get the Telegram Excel spreadsheet thing opened, and, that was our only boost. We did have some streaming, and we appreciate that, of course. Agent Natasha. Yeah. So thank you very much. Yep. We've got some dedicated people out there, and we appreciate that. Alright. That's man, always something. Always something. I really wanna set up mining over there, man. I I won't, but I'm just saying, I hear there's cheap power there in the north. In the very north. Yes.
[00:58:04] Kenshin:
Oh. You don't want to My miners don't care. Yeah. There is no sun in the winter in the very north.
[00:58:11] McIntosh:
I yes. That is true. I, when I was young I'm gonna tell this real quick. I promise. I still. We took a trip to Alaska, and we got north of Fairbanks in July. It was dark. It it never even got dark. It was light. And then around midnight, it would get slightly less light, and then it would lighten back up again in a couple of hours. And that was literally it. And I'm sure the winter is the exact opposite. Right? So, I mean, I get it. I don't think I would like the winter, all winter. I would I like it for a a week or 2? Actually, I might given food, power, Internet, and the right books.
I might be a a happy camper for a little while, but not all winter. I could see that be but the summer, if I had, like, blackout windows where I could, you know, go to sleep when I wanted, man, have you seen vegetables grown in Alaska? It's a and I'm it's anywhere in the Arctic like that. It's amazing because they get 24 hours of sunlight. Nice. Anyways. Yeah. Where were we at? Alright. We just got side railed, sidetracked. News and notes. Don't have a whole lot this week. There was a few things on my Twitter feed I did wanna bring up. 1 especially I'm gonna go ahead and lead off with this. Ladies and gentlemen ladies and gentlemen, lend me your ears.
Just 2, 3 weeks ago, we were talking about why we Bitcoin. Right? What makes Bitcoin different? And one of those things, Kenshin, was decentralization. Was it not? Yep. We also we also talked about how Satoshi left Bitcoin very, very early in. In fact, we were talking about this. I actually I really wish he would have stayed longer, maybe not years longer, but longer than he did. He did not. He was, like, 6 months or 9 months or something involved in the project. And then one day, as far as I can tell, just out of the blue, he just says, yeah. I've got this other project I'm working on. This project's in good hands. Bye. And that was it. And nobody heard from him. And now we will all talk about who was Satoshi, but that kept Bitcoin decentralized.
Bitcoin has no CEO. Bitcoin has no leader of the board, leader of the foundation, anything like that. Exhibit a, I'm going to read this word for word, January 21 from the check verified account of Vitalik Buterin, who, in case you did not know, was the head of Ethereum. No. Period. This is not how this game works. So this is a game, first of all. Words matter, buddy. This is not a game for me, but the person deciding the new EF, which is Ethereum Foundation leadership team, is me, meaning himself. One of the goals of the ongoing reform is to give the EF a, quote, proper born.
But until that happens, it's me. If you, quote, keep the pressure on, close quote, then you are creating an environment that is actually toxic to top talent. Some of Ethereum's best devs have been messaging me recently expressing their disgust with the social media environment that people like you, and I don't even know who this is too, are creating. You are making my job harder, all caps, and you are decreasing the chance that I have any interest whatsoever in doing, quote, what you want. Quote close quote. And then it says my lady, and I don't know what that means. I have no idea. I'm not an Ethereum person at this point in my life. Thankfully, I left that behind years ago.
And I have told y'all on a very consistent basis, if you own Ethereum, you need to sell it. You either need to consider selling it at some point during the cycle in the Bitcoin, or you need to sell it at the top, whether that's for Bitcoin or for cash. That's your choice, obviously, and any of this is your choice. This is not good, and I do not know what's going on here, and I really don't actually care. But this is an example of a person who is effectively if Vitalik quit Ethereum, it would explode. But apparently it's not doing well under his, and I'm gonna use quotes just like he did, leadership.
[01:03:20] Kenshin:
I'm sorry, but if he quits, he will sell 50% of all Ethereum that he owns and it would crush it anyway. Which is 70% of what was I mean, I don't know. It's just it's a mess.
[01:03:32] McIntosh:
I hope they get through it, frankly, for the people that do have Ethereum. And and then it doesn't just crater. By the way, bit Bitcoin to Ethereum, it's at an all time low, in terms of cost performance or whatever it is. Something to keep in mind. It's not a good look. And if they don't get this straight, it's not even gonna make it through the bull market, much less the bear market. So I don't know. But this is why we Bitcoin this is a great reason why. Wished I knew what the whole my lady thing was because he keeps putting it on his post. I don't know.
[01:04:12] Kenshin:
Maybe it I don't know. Don't don't don't give him any more views on his posts.
[01:04:19] McIntosh:
Well, I just wanted because he is in charge of that project. That's my own I'm not trying to give him any credence, please. Thank you for bringing that up. I this is not about Vitality. This is about any any project that has a CEO, that has someone in charge. And I'm going to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, outside of Bitcoin, there is always someone in charge. Okay?
[01:04:48] Kenshin:
Mhmm. Exactly.
[01:04:49] McIntosh:
I already mentioned the one about the SEC. By the way, I am just gonna say this. I've had a, somewhat tumultuous relationship with Bitcoin Magazine and Bitcoin, the company. I appreciate that they were early on. I appreciate some of the content that they bring. But for years, they've had this kind of attitude that I have not liked. And maybe early on, they weren't. I don't know. I don't remember specifically, to be honest. But when the CEO of the company is literally on this is this is mind blowing. On Twitter saying how good it was that the president was, quote, degenning on chain, talking about the Solana meme coin that he launched.
Okay? And then the magazine itself turns around and says that Trump is a the Trump meme coin is a, I'm gonna call it a casino coin. They called it something else. I'm done with it. I'm going to read their content when it's relevant, but I don't think I'm ever gonna go to another Bitcoin, the company, whatever, magazine conference, and they put on a lot of them, including the the one that I did go to last year. I I just I'm not gonna promote that. I'm not. I don't think that and I wish they would just sell the brand because these people are not Bitcoiners. These people are crypto people.
Yeah. Plain and sound. I agree. And I just don't know how else to say it, or cut it. And I've cut them slack for years, and I'm done with it. So I guess they're officially on my bad list.
[01:06:53] Kenshin:
Right.
[01:06:54] McIntosh:
I don't know. Good. I agree. Is there anything else in the news that we really need to talk about? We are getting I I have to give a a tip.
[01:07:04] Kenshin:
If they want to watch a nice, I don't know, documentary or Okay. Clip. Mhmm. It's a clip called What's the Problem. It's made by oh, I'm sorry. I had it on here. It's a clip made by Satmo, s a t m o, Satmo Joe. It's called what's the problem, and he explains why we are in the situation we are with Fiat.
[01:07:37] McIntosh:
I think I've got it. It's an hour and a half long, though. No. It's not a clip. It's 39.30
[01:07:42] Kenshin:
minutes. 39 minutes. I I Do you have, Yeah. I put the link. Do you have something we can point to? Yes. I put the link in the notes. And then so this is really good. And and he goes through, an imaginary story. Like you have people stranded on an island and they need to use some sort of currency to, yeah. Use us money. And they get split up, split up into 2 groups. And 1 group is using essentially a fiat currency and the other group is using hard money like Bitcoin. So it goes through that pros and cons and shows in a very easy to understand example why Fiat is a failing system and creates inflation and all the problems that we have and why Bitcoin is, yeah, the best alternative we have right now.
Okay. Very good. And that's good also include that in the show. Yeah. And that's good videos is for people who don't know Bitcoin yet. So it's to make them understand those topics a bit better.
[01:08:42] McIntosh:
Let me check one more thing. I do have at least one software. It looks like we got a couple of software updates. I'll go ahead and throw the first one out. Yeah. This looks like about it. So there's 2. There's one on Domus. Do you have your fingers on that? Or do you want me do I need to do that one?
[01:09:03] Kenshin:
Domus? No. I don't have it. I have the Breeze. Okay.
[01:09:08] McIntosh:
Oh, I actually didn't. You're right. There is one for Breeze and then there's one for paste b g c pay server. Okay. I'll do Domus and you can do Breeze and then I'll finish with the okay. So Domus, which is a Nostra client for iPhone, for Macs, for iPads, whatever. It's it's Apple only. That's, but it's a Nostra client. I actually use it, and they do have a new version out, 1.12, for UX improvements, which is always good to see and, just general bug fixes. Okay?
[01:09:43] Kenshin:
Right. And then we have, Breeze. The nodeless 0.6.2 is a SDK, so it's for developers to implement liquid, and lightning transactions in their apps. And they have, they have implemented now a real time sync and pay to BIP 353 addresses. So the Bitcoin implementation protocol. 353. Yes. So it's mostly developer related things there.
[01:10:23] McIntosh:
Okay. Right. Roy is the the, developer there. And man, he's just been turning out stuff. I don't think Breeze gets enough credit, to be honest. I don't. But yeah. And then the last one on the BTC pay server, which is a very, very well known Bitcoin payment processing platform for, like, merchants, version 2.06. And I'm gonna read this. This is pretty funny. It's not well, I'm gonna read this. Fix to prevent duplicate payouts in certain on chain configurations. So if you're running version 2, this is a bug fix. You should do it. And the notes say, this release includes a security fix for merchants using refund pull payments on chain with automated payout processors along with several bug fixes and improvements. Quote, we could not reproduce the reported issue on our own instances, but the remote reporting merchant confirmed the issue was resolved.
So, man, I I don't know exactly what was going on there, but, I'm glad they got it fixed. That did not sound good.
[01:11:37] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[01:11:38] McIntosh:
Alright. So that's gonna be it for our software updates, and let me wrap things up. Okay. So we're gonna go ahead and wrap things up. I'm gonna kinda skip a little bit of some of this stuff this week because we are over time. I would encourage you if you are listening to this podcast and you love it too. First of all, please share it with other people. That is the number one way to help us. We are trying to grow this podcast, and it is extremely valuable when our listeners tell other people about this podcast. We are a podcasting 2.0 podcast. There's all kinds of features including there's a lot of nostr integration that's going on right now. I did wanna mention that.
I don't really have time to go into it, but, there's lots of very interesting kind of symbiosis going on there working together. But podcasting 2 point o apps in general have all the latest features like transcripts and chapters, things that don't show up in regular podcasting apps. Plus, you can use them to support the list the listeners, the podcast hosts themselves. People like and I, like our listeners, Send It Mike, who boosted in a 1,069 SaaS. What he did is he used a lightning wallet specifically with fountain to support us by boosting in, that amount and a message at the same time that we get that we can then receive that feedback. And, of course, we comment on the air and this kind of thing. It's a great way to kinda get that feedback from our listeners about what's going on and ideas for improvements and that kind of thing. So we really appreciate that. It is a good way. I will say this. It's also a great way to get a hold of us. It doesn't have to be a a huge amount. You know, you can just send a 100 sats and say great show, that kind of thing.
So we have a there's a list of those apps at podcast apps.com. You can just go there and take a look. I know we use different ones. I use a couple of different ones, Fountain and Podcast Guru. I think you use Fountain and something else. Podcast
[01:14:00] Kenshin:
Guru as well.
[01:14:02] McIntosh:
Oh, okay. Maybe we need to branch out. Yeah. We'll see. And 4th verse. Yeah. Thanks for being here. We hope this has been helpful, and we would love to hear from you. We have all the ways to reach us listed at the bottom of each episode page on the website at satoshisplebs.com. Stay humble, friends. Go out. Make it a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.
What is up, Pleb Nation? Today is January 24th, and this is episode 194 of satoshi's plebs. I'm Macintosh.
[00:00:07] Kenshin:
And I am Kenshin.
[00:00:09] McIntosh:
And today's episode is snowpocalypse. Alright. It's been a humdinger as we would say, and, wow. This is gonna be an interesting episode. This will be either really good or it's gonna be really bad, and you're gonna be, like, skipping ahead. How are you, sir? Well, I'm good. But most importantly, what happened over there? We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Before we do, let's talk about the Bitcoin price. As we record here on January 22, 2025, we have a $104,700 USD price.
[00:01:22] Kenshin:
Right. And a €100,500.
[00:01:25] McIntosh:
See, I just need to get a hold of some of those euros, man. You guys got it cheap over there. Mhmm. That's all there is to that. It's more valuable. And our block height is more valuable. So the Canadian dollar, on the other hand, it's like a 150. I don't know if you tracked that one, but it's nuts. It's like a 150,000. The block height as we record is 880,383.
[00:01:50] Kenshin:
Right. And we have a difficulty adjustment of upcoming around minus 2.1. Estimated January 27th. So we that means the blocks are coming in approximately 10 minutes into 10.2 minutes Right. On average. So
[00:02:10] McIntosh:
so they're a bit slow. Right. And our previous adjustment was 0.61% up, and I do not offhand know the date that that was, but it wasn't too long ago. Oh, we have got some 20 days ago. Oh, it has been a while. We do have some stuff going on in the mempool, though. It looks like our fees are up. How much is a transaction going to cost me, Kenshin?
[00:02:36] Kenshin:
Well, right now it's gonna cost you in low priority, 0.6 dollars.
[00:02:41] McIntosh:
Okay.
[00:02:42] Kenshin:
The the fees just changed. So right now there are 4, 5, and 6 low, medium, and high priority. So it's not so bad as a I wonder what's going on. Oh, okay. So I see. So it didn't go back. Yeah. There must have been something happening, though.
[00:02:56] McIntosh:
And so 4, 5, and 6 SaaS per v byte. How many, unprocessed transactions we got?
[00:03:04] Kenshin:
Yeah. We have approximately where did it go? 120,000 unprocessed transactions and 340 megabytes in the mempool.
[00:03:15] McIntosh:
We are getting lower. I don't think it's gonna empty. No. It could. Hey. I so let's talk about this week. I wanna go ahead and open up. I can't I I'm sorry. I just can't. This is what has been going on this week in my life, frankly, has been crazy. So, in addition to a big work project, which, in theory ended today, which really didn't, but we made a big milestone. We got a lot of snow in the southeast. And, you know, just in general, all across the southeastern region, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, they all got major amounts of snow. I know, for example, over in Mobile, Alabama on the Gulf Coast, the Civic Center, actually, the roof fell in, and I saw pictures of it. And it is spectacular.
Probably, I I don't know, 30, 40000 people, civic center. And I as far as I know, there was no one in it when it collapsed. But, yeah, the entire roof just collapsed down. Just craziness. Some areas were getting 10 inches of snow or more right down on the Gulf of Mexico, which is extremely unusual. I historic, literally. Which one? The Gulf of Where was this? Gulf of Mexico or as we like to say, the Gulf of America. Yeah. Right. I'm sorry. I didn't catch on to start with. I'm like, what? You don't know where the Gulf of Mexico is? I'm gonna continue to call it the Gulf of Mexico for now. I guess we'll see how that all turns out.
But, yes, lots of snow, ice, sleet, rain. Oh, funny thing. So I'm in one of the areas where it did snow, and in fact, we got a lot of it. But, it started snowing, and I was out driving around, which maybe I shouldn't have been, but I was. And we have a saying, you know, the postal service rain neither rain nor sleet nor snow will keep it from its appointed rounds or something like that. And snow is coming down. Right? Just you know, we're we're getting a pretty regular snowfall. And I look up, and there's the UPS or the postal service USPS truck going down the road delivering the mail. I will say that that statement did not hold true, though, because we did not get our mail yesterday.
I doubt we will get it today. I'm hopeful we will get it tomorrow. So, the roads are kind of a mess, and, you know, things are just kinda crazy because we're not really used to this. So it's been fun. Kids have been out of school, all of that kind of stuff. So and now we're all a little stir crazy and getting angry at each other. So I guess that's where we're at. So how are things going with you, Kenshin?
[00:06:18] Kenshin:
Well, I'm in the opposite boat. We don't have snow. No snow, which is a pleasant surprise around here. Everything melted. We have rain for once in January, so I'm happy. No one else is. No one else. But, for me, it's no snow shoveling
[00:06:37] McIntosh:
this month, I think. So that's quite good so far. Well, there's what? Nine more days left, so we'll have to see if that holds out.
[00:06:46] Kenshin:
Yeah. We might go skiing, so we will see snow. I think it's go up into the into the mountains?
[00:06:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. I was telling my wife as we were sitting there with the fire going. I said, you know, the only thing that would make this better if we were in a little cabin down by the creek up in the mountains with the amount of snow that we had. You know? It would have been nice, but we weren't, but it was still nice. It was great. Alright. Alright. So where are we at? I don't I'm I'm man, what a week. We
[00:07:23] Kenshin:
How does it feel? How are the feelings? Are we doing this now? Absolutely.
[00:07:29] McIntosh:
The inauguration. I promise we won't stay on this too long. So, yes, we have a new president, the 47th president of the United States, Donald John Trump, which I did not know that that was his middle name. I watched the actual inauguration, and when he took the oath of office, he actually they said that. And I was like, what? I thought that was a little funny. It's actually about what I expected. So we'll go ahead and talk about some of our news. I know something that was super important, I think, to you, to a lot of Bitcoiners in general, and for a good reason, certainly.
He did free Ross. So why don't you fill in a little bit on what that really means?
[00:08:20] Kenshin:
Yeah. I mean, we woke up this morning in Europe at least and see the news that he freed Ross because we expected that maybe to happen the day before. But I guess during inauguration day, maybe they didn't Yeah. Have time to go to those topics. I'm not for sure. But yeah. So I'm not sure. No. But I mean, that was huge. The biggest part was Mhmm. First that he kept the promise and that gave a good signal because after some other things that we will talk about later, that happened with, with Trump, some, some others, the mood was a bit low, I would say.
[00:09:00] McIntosh:
Anyway, some other things. Yeah. No, he did keep that promise and he made that promise. I, he did make that promise at the Bitcoin convention. I think that was the first place where he actually said that. So he no?
[00:09:16] Kenshin:
Actually, no. I saw I was looking at Ross's tweets, and he mentioned that in May last year. So that was before. So he promised that May last year. And the the for me, the most surprising thing is that we were all expecting to have his sentence commuted, but instead he gave a full pardon.
[00:09:39] McIntosh:
It was interesting. So that's That would certainly help him out. He'll be able to travel freely and do whatever he wants, essentially. He won't have a criminal record. For those of you who don't really know what we were talking about Yeah. Ross was the creator of the Silk Road, which was on the dark web, whatever that means. I've never quite understood what are these, like, hidden websites? I I know what Tor is, and and I've used Tor before. And but this was not on Tor. Right? It was just a regular website, or did I?
[00:10:17] Kenshin:
Okay. I I don't remember. It might have been only tour, but the thing that it's not it's not hidden. It's just indexed. It's just not indexed. It's like yeah. It's like your personal website. Yeah. So if you have a website in your in your home server, that's not that's not indexed. That's in on the dark web. So he was selling,
[00:10:41] McIntosh:
a marketplace, and and there was all kinds of things for sale on there. Books and just all and some things that were illegal. And and that's what got him in trouble.
[00:10:57] Kenshin:
He was considered, yeah, he was considered that he was selling them or assisting on the sales or something.
[00:11:06] McIntosh:
Even give even given that, the reality is he was put in prison for 2 life sentences or something crazy. Like, there was no chance of parole, anything like that. He was very young. He was in his
[00:11:23] Kenshin:
He he was Right. So he was 26. Now he's it's 11 years. Right?
[00:11:28] McIntosh:
So so Yeah. Almost 12. 36, 37. Somewhere right around there. So he's still in his late thirties. Fortunately, as someone who has trouble remembering his late thirties, I would say that he has a lot of life left to live, so he can go out and and do things, you know, and live his life. I think the punishment, frankly, was way out of line for the crime that even that they felt like he committed. I'm not gonna argue whether he did or not. The reality is the punishment was he was being made an example of. Okay? It's the best way I would put it. And so it's, in my opinion, not a bad thing that that Trump, commuted his sentence. I think 11 years was quite sufficient.
Plus, they took all the Bitcoin, that was involved in that, and I do not think that will be given back to him. And And it was a lot. It was like a 100,000 or more Bitcoin.
[00:12:32] Kenshin:
More. Yeah. So,
[00:12:35] McIntosh:
that was the big news. Now we did not get a strategic Bitcoin reserve at least as of a couple of hours ago. I have not been on Twitter lately. But I will say this. I will mention this as someone who's on Twitter probably more than they should be. People on Twitter, Bitcoin people on Twitter were losing their minds during the 1st day after so Trump got inaugurated at 12 noon. And by, like, 10 o'clock at night, I mean, they're just like, I can't believe he's not, you know, setting Ross free. And I'm like, do you realize how much this guy has to deal well, for one thing, he had balls to go to and stuff like that. But he did sign a lot of executive orders. Okay?
And and you could even you could argue, he said day 1 didn't really happen. It didn't happen in 24 hours. It would I don't think it was by 12 o'clock the next day. It was it was in the afternoon that, Tuesday afternoon, at some point. So and that's why you woke up to the news because it was the middle of the night already for you. So you kind of missed that. And no. I mean, I suppose not, and maybe it would have been best if he was but it's done. And so let's move on. These are politicians that we're dealing with, people. Don't give them any credence, and you're better off, frankly.
So we will see. It does seem, given some of the executive orders that he's already given, that he will be a very crypto friendly, administration as we expected. Hester Prynne, one of them I saw, she was being put in charge of I think it was the operation 2 point o choke point, choke point 2 point o, whatever they call it. Here it is. The SEC launches a dedicated crypto task force led by commissioner Hester Pierce. I think I said her name wrong. Sorry, miss Pierce. To bring clarity and fairness to crypto regulation, a step towards protecting investors and fostering innovative responsibility. Now I will tell you this. I'm no SCC expert other than knowing that it was time for Gary Gensler to leave.
But what I have heard from Hester Pierce, I have it was thoughtful and balanced and fair. So I'm glad to see that she's being put in charge of this. So it does look like a lot of the things that Trump, has basically promised that he's going to do. And you may not like all of those. I'll just go ahead and throw out. For example, my understanding is they are already starting to deport people who are in the United States illegally. You can call them whatever you want, but they're not here, legally. That's one of the things he said he was gonna do, and that's what they're doing. So I believe we still will see a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I don't think it will take months. It may take weeks, but I think it will happen.
And I am I don't wanna say excited, but I think this was a step in the right direction. I think it would have been worse if things if he had not been elected. I'll put it that way. RFK, even though I really like him and like his thoughts, had no chance of getting elected. So it was either the Republican or the Democrat. And, frankly, the Democrats have had their chance, and they've shown their hand. And it's not a pretty hand, and I don't want anything to do with it in terms of crypto.
[00:16:26] Kenshin:
I have a question. Mhmm. I have a question that I want to ask the audience also, and I want to put on like, online sort of question. Boost it in, people. It's like, do you prefer a no coiner
[00:16:42] McIntosh:
Mhmm.
[00:16:43] Kenshin:
President or a meme coiner? Oh. President. But not a Bitcoiner. But not a Bitcoiner.
[00:16:52] McIntosh:
That's a great question.
[00:16:54] Kenshin:
I don't know. I I think right now, but we will see how it plays out. But, I should have mentioned this. I apologize. But, of course,
[00:17:05] McIntosh:
like, literally right after he got in no. Before day before or something. Yeah. And I actually think that was on purpose. I saw a plausible setup for that, because there is a clause in the constitution, or I think it's the constitution, about how the president cannot basically benefit from Yeah. What's the word? Self promotion. I don't know. But he did that right before his inauguration, and I think it was to kinda stay out of legal trouble. So he he launched a meme coin and then supposed now let's be honest. He didn't do it. Either one of his kids was in charge of it or even an entirely separate group of people or company or whatever. And then his wife did shortly after that. And neither one of them they're look. They're just meme coins, and they're on Solana even. And I don't I just don't care. I don't.
I've been on here very consistently telling you people this is not the kind of thing you should invest in. I hope you did not do so. If you did and you were in profit, you should sell. Yeah. That's all I'm gonna say about that because there's really nothing else to say. And, yes, it's disappointing, but frankly, it's not surprising. You and I were talking about this prior to the to starting to record. Bitcoin Bitcoin. Trump is not a Bitcoin maximalist. Trump is not I'm not even sure he fully understands Bitcoin. I do think he thinks it's a great store of value, and that's about the extent of it. And he is just trying to make a quick buck. Let's be honest.
And he did. They made half a $1,000,000,000, which is insane because they pulled that out at the top and rugged a bunch of people as far as I can tell.
[00:19:05] Kenshin:
Yeah. And we had an episode why Bitcoin is not crypto. So we had, all those points in that episode as well. And all about the pre mine one of those points,
[00:19:15] McIntosh:
here in just a few minutes with some of the news, and I'll leave that for the news. But, yeah, this is just another example. This is just not something this it's just garbage. There's no utility to this. It's there's no way a 100 years from now this is gonna be worth more than it is now. It's just not gonna happen.
[00:19:33] Kenshin:
So No. A a day after, it's not worth it. It's worth
[00:19:37] McIntosh:
I haven't been tracking it. I have no idea what it's doing, and, frankly, I just don't care because I know ultimately where it goes. Right? Yeah. So alright. Very good. So we've got our question. We do have that. And we talked about the Trump coin. Great. And okay. So I think it's actually time to jump into our topic. Ken Chen, are you ready for that? Yeah. Let's do it. So what are we talking about today? It's not the snowpocalypse. I'm sorry. That was just a catchy title that probably won't get us any traction, but okay. What are we talking about?
[00:20:15] Kenshin:
So let's talk a little bit about decentralizing information and how we can, get people, let's say, to places like Nostra and how they can use their how they can use a new layer 2 technologies on those platforms like, lightning and e cash and Cashew.
[00:20:35] McIntosh:
So we haven't talked a whole lot about e cash and Cashew. In fact, I was looking back. I I talked about Fedimint back in 2023. So it's been a bit, and it was like May. So almost 2 years now. So we probably need to cover that in in some depth. Lightning in general, is a layer 2 technology. And what we mean by that is you've got your Bitcoin main chain. Right? Your main net, whatever you wanna call it. And these are technologies that are built on top of that, whether that's lightning, which you use channels, fun little concept, to lock up funds on the main chain. And that's kind of the way that you peg in and peg out of that little system.
That's been around, I wanna say, since 2017, maybe even a little bit earlier than that. At this point, I would say it's pretty good. It's not delivered on this promise of kind of everyone could get a lightning node, and it's gonna be super easy. Liquidity, frankly, is difficult to manage on that system. And there are enough bugs at least as of a year ago. And this is one of the reasons I wanna set up a new node. That just keeping your channels open was a problem. And if fees are high on the network when you open and close channels, that costs money, real money, and you need to be careful about that. So we don't want those failing due to bugs.
So, there's some issues. I don't know. I wanted to go back to one of the things that you and I were talking about before we started recording. Whatever the technology is, and I do believe it will be a mix of things personally. We do know that the base layer, the main net cannot support the world's population. There's 8,000,000,000 plus people on this planet and growing. We cannot support every person on the main net and that's just the reality. So from an engineering standpoint, you can look at the throughput of the network, the the block size, the block timings. Even if we started adjusting some of those things, you're not getting anywhere close to that level of throughput, and that means that that main net space as Bitcoin adoption grows, it will get very, very expensive.
I don't it's not gonna get difficult to use, but it will get expensive. Right? Because if more and more people are competing for that, then it has to. It's the only choice that it's the only option. Right? So the way that we get around that is we build on top of that. That's the whole layer too. How we do that, that's a that is a discussion, and that's been an ongoing discussion for years at this point. And it's not going to be solved anytime soon.
[00:23:59] Kenshin:
Right. Yeah. And we have a few different ways. Like you said, we have the lightning. We have the cashew now, the pediments. So which ones?
[00:24:09] McIntosh:
Oh, and we haven't even mentioned ARC, which is a relatively new technology. I wanna say it's been around about a year. Right. They're just now getting kind of beta product out there. It's definitely not ready for prime time. ARK like Noah's Ark. And then one more that we should throw in there even if in passing is liquid. I'm not aware of any other I think there are some others, actually, but they're so minuscule at this point that it doesn't actually matter. There's a mercury, if I'm not mistaken, and I am going out on a limb here. So if I get that wrong, please don't hold it against me. But, like, there's a mercury layer.
I'm
[00:24:54] Kenshin:
not familiar with it. I know the liquid, of course. Think
[00:24:59] McIntosh:
of. So let's talk about liquid for just a second. I wanna look this up.
[00:25:04] Kenshin:
So lick liquid is from, Block stream. Block stream is a company founded by Adam Buck, who made the proof of work if I'm not mistaken.
[00:25:16] McIntosh:
Hash cash. Mhmm.
[00:25:18] Kenshin:
Yeah. And he's so she has the block stream green, also the wallet, and a few hardware wallets. So the green is a software.
[00:25:28] McIntosh:
Aqua is another wallet that works with it. That's not from them. It's one of the first examples of a non block stream wallet that works with liquid. And from what I hear, no, I've not used it. But from what I hear, it works very well.
[00:25:44] Kenshin:
Yeah. I I I've used it. It's and it supports liquid and lightning. So you can Right. Send between them and
[00:25:50] McIntosh:
That is
[00:25:51] Kenshin:
quite that is quite good.
[00:25:53] McIntosh:
Yeah. So there is a Mercury layer too, by the way. And and I'm telling you, it's so beta that that's why you don't know anything about it. It allows for the secure transfer of coins without on chain transactions based on state chains and uses blinded cosigning and key cycling technology, and that's right out of Google. So please take it with a grain of salt. But, yes, there are probably multiple projects like that. You could throw, one of those things called drive chains in there as well. A technology that is just mind bogglingly stupid to me, but, god, I do not wanna get in an argument with Paul, whatever his name is, about it because he'll just beat you up with words.
And I just don't even have a desire. I I don't understand other than he's making money off of it, and that's it. That's that's kind of my synopsis. And he is. He's got grants and whatever, so don't be mistaken about that. There is an incentive there. Drive chains, fun stuff. Mercury, I'm not aware of any others, but I'm sure there will be other technologies that come along. So we need to talk about these so that people are aware. Because over the next decade or 2 decades, more and more people will migrate off of that. Right.
So one of the ones I mean, we've talked about lightning or I've talked about lightning a number of times. We've mentioned it before on previous podcasts. I am actually this year, and I do and before I leave lightning, like I said, I don't know. It was on my list of goals. I do wanna get a lightning node set up, and we'll probably talk about that some more as that happens this year. But one of the things that I am very curious about, and, I wanted to kinda dig in on today's episode, is the e cache, setup. So let's talk about e cache and these different implementations for just a
[00:27:59] Kenshin:
minute. Yeah. And for lightning before we go completely to e cash as, I was a bit afraid of it a couple of years ago. I tried it and,
[00:28:12] McIntosh:
Have you lost any money on it?
[00:28:15] Kenshin:
No. But it's very expensive to manage the channels if you don't know. So you lost money on it? Yeah.
[00:28:22] McIntosh:
Right. And I've done the same thing. And that's actually why I stopped messing with it previously is because I had some channels that went down. Fees were stupid back then, and I'm just like, this is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It was still too buggy, and they have continued to work on it. I think a lot of improvements have been made, and that's why I kinda wanna get back on the on the bandwagon. I don't have any interest in you know, there's lightning service providers. There's these kind of things. I just don't wanna pay somebody else to manage infrastructure for me. There are people who that makes a lot of sense for. In my case, maybe not. I don't know.
[00:29:01] Kenshin:
Mhmm. I I personally run the self hosted albhab. So I pay them no no fees. Yeah. And I manage it myself and I learned now how to manage the channel. So it hasn't been expensive in that sense. It only cost me a Bitcoin transaction fee.
[00:29:17] McIntosh:
Right. And that's what I'm saying. If at the right time, that's what it should be.
[00:29:23] Kenshin:
Yeah. Great. So right now it works and I used a lot in that sense, and I use it with family members as well. I have made them wallets in my note. But of course, we talked a bit about this earlier. They need to trust me in that sense. So there is a trust vector
[00:29:40] McIntosh:
and We're gonna talk about that some more in just a minute. So let's not dig too deep into that. Mhmm.
[00:29:46] Kenshin:
Yep. That's the trust symbol. Yeah. But current lightning status is more or less what it was, but I a lot more tools to help out, I think.
[00:29:56] McIntosh:
So I do wanna take a few minutes and dig into e cash, because whether we like it or not, and that's up to us to decide, but it is here. I do see it as being part of the Bitcoin ecosystem in the long term. So real simply before we get off into the kind of 2 different products of eCash, let's talk about what eCash actually is. So eCash has actually it's the oldest form of digital currency, which I always that's just fascinating to me. We've kind of resurrected it. It has a long history back to the eighties, by a guy named, David. David.
Chom? Is it Chom? I always I'm not quite sure. It's called Chomian eCash, and it's named after him. And it's a way to basically sign transactions and whatever without actually knowing who it's for, and I believe even the amount. Now I know it's for who it's for and who sent it, that kind of thing. So there's anonymity built into this system. Okay? The early implementations of it had a lot of flaws. That's why it ended up dying. I don't think Just to give you an idea, this actually was funny. Not funny. It could have changed history. It was, like, literally, like, this close to like, really, really close. You guys can't see my video.
Of being included with Windows 95.
[00:31:45] Kenshin:
Oh.
[00:31:46] McIntosh:
As like a Chobian e cash wallet, and every Windows 95 computer would have had that as a wallet. And if you don't think that would have kick started mass adoption of eCash okay. We're gonna agree to disagree. Alright? Because e cash would have exploded. Now it did not. People can argue about why or why not. It doesn't matter. It was never included, and it ended up dying after that. Now David Chum is still actually around, interestingly enough. Although to my knowledge, he has not gotten involved with Bitcoin and e cash. So maybe he should jump on the bandwagon. I'm just throwing that out there. He's probably off in his, like, lair because he has money. I'm sure he made some money off of all that. He's over there, you know, like, hacking up some great solution, and he's gonna pull it out right in we'll see. Kenshin didn't like that. Alright. Anyways
[00:32:49] Kenshin:
I'm reading.
[00:32:52] McIntosh:
Okay. But, yes, there are 2 basic implementations right now of ECash. So we've got this blinded signing. We've got privacy built in functions, and that's about as deep as I'm gonna go because I don't wanna bore y'all. But there are 2 implementations. 1 is called, FettiMint, and we'll talk about that. And there's one that's called Cashew, and we'll talk about that. They are similar in what they do. And my understanding is they're even becoming interoperable. So I can, like, send e cash from a Cashew wallet to a Fedimint. Now I may be wrong about that. I don't think so.
[00:33:34] Kenshin:
I think you're right, but I haven't tried it.
[00:33:37] McIntosh:
So but they are actually implemented in 2 fundamentally different, methods, and we wanted to cover that in case you start coming across e cash. I would actually now maybe Kenshin wouldn't at this point, and we do need to talk about kind of the pros and cons of this. But I would actually encourage you to consider at least fiddling around with this, if you wanna call it that. Right? Put a small amount of money in one of these and and see how it works. Do your own research. This is not financial advice. And I would say very very muchly.
That is not good English. I would say you very likely could lose that money. Okay? So keep that in mind. Fedimint, It stands for Federated Mint, and what that means is there are a number of organizations, companies, or individuals that are involved that are used to set up this mint. And what that does mean is that basically, let's say you have, I don't know, a 1000 people who put money in this mint. Okay? Maybe there's 10 Bitcoin worth of mint. That's not mint. Maybe there's 10 Bitcoin worth of of reserve. Reserve. Thank you. Gosh, man. Like, I know English is not your first language, and you did that better than I did. Gosh. Yes. In the reserve.
Words elude me. And to to rug that, to pull that out, if you had 6 members, I think 4 of them would have to agree to that.
[00:35:35] Kenshin:
They would have to So it's like a multisig?
[00:35:37] McIntosh:
Yes. It's like a multisig. They would have to collaborate. And so what that does, it brings security. It brings it builds trust, and we're gonna talk about trust more in just a second. But it builds trust. Okay? You put your money in, and you sleep safely, soundly knowing that your money is safe. Now, on the other hand, Cashew, there's one person, one company, one organization behind that. It's not federated. And that does mean that if there's a bad actor, they can pull the reserves and leave you high and dry, much easier.
Now that could be viewed as a that is a drawback. It also makes it much simpler to operate, and that's the whole idea. Calle is the name of the guy, and I don't know where he's from. I think from somewhere in South America. That'd be my guess. But regardless regardless, he wants it simple, and that's his one of his big goals, and I get that. With Fedimint, on the other hand, there's more complexity. There's less of a chance of getting rugged, but we have seen multiple failures of those systems essentially because of their complexity. So there was a DNS issue at one point with a major fundament, and I think they managed to keep it up long enough or they fixed they actually patched the code is what they did. So they did the right thing. They patched the code to fix this DNS issue because some domain names had actually gotten white blacklisted or whatever, and they were not resolving.
They patched the code so that that was not a problem, and they were so people were able to get their money out. But again, the complexity of that system was creating a problem that simply would not have been there in Cashew. Does that make sense, Kenshin?
[00:37:45] Kenshin:
Yeah. I think so. But as you said, it's a single point of failure, then you can have other points of failure in cash. And it's the same with liquid. I want to say that liquid is also a federated system. I don't know. 6 or 9 or something. No. Liquid is also single company behind it. It's Blockstream.
[00:38:07] McIntosh:
Is a single company, but there are other companies that are involved essentially as validators. Look look that up. Oh, okay. Yes. So that you're right. There's a single company doing the development, and that is block block or Blockstream. I think it's Blockstream. Blockstream. Right? So they're doing the development. But in their case, the validators are spread across multiple companies. Okay? So dig into that real quick. I am gonna start talking about trust because that is the important part of this. Now in either case, whether it's a feta or whether it's a cashew mice or whether it's liquid, let's just throw that in there, my suggestion is you only put a small amount of money in there. If you're comfortable walking around town let's say you're comfortable walking around kind of the the seedy part of town with a $100 in your wallet.
Because you know if you lose your wallet, a $100 is not gonna kill you. I wouldn't put more than that in one of these at this point until I was super comfortable with what was going on, until that feta mint or cashew mint or whatever or or liquid, until they had been online and operating and solved issues or whatever for some period of time. And I don't mean a couple of weeks or a couple of months. I mean, years. There's no reason for you to have $10,000 in e cash on Cashew. That's just nuts. Put that on the main chain at this point. That's a that's a tenth of a Bitcoin. Right?
And by the way, you're essentially transferring in and out of Bitcoin. Is that correct, Kenshin, on these mints? I think they're starting to do other token as well. Well, liquid, they have their own setup. Right?
[00:40:08] Kenshin:
They're swapping and swap outs. Yeah. And that, that incurs a cost also.
[00:40:15] McIntosh:
So it is on the main chain. Yeah. But if you have a significant amount of money, did I just no. If you have $10,000, that's 1 tenth of that's 10% of a Bitcoin. That needs to be on the main chain right now. Don't even hesitate. Okay? You should not have that on lightning unless you are running a professional lightning node, that you are managing. You just should not have that kind of money available on any of these layer 2 systems regardless. That's just that's not smart. Okay? That's my financial advice. But, you know, if you're comfortable with a $100 or whatever or 20, then have it on there and don't worry about it. You know, if you're on a newer system, then you if it were liquid, I probably, at this point, wouldn't worry about it too much at all. If I were on some Fedimint, they probably are gonna have some Twitter feed or a Discord group or something. I would probably keep my eye on that in case they do have a problem, like the DNS issues that we solve with this one Fedimint. Okay?
Because they were they did the right thing. They told their customers. They worked through the process, and they let everybody know what was going on. So, so, yeah, what is your opinion about the trust in all this, Kenshin?
[00:41:39] Kenshin:
Well, especially with those federations, it feels like, as you said, there are custodials. And in many of those cases, you don't know them. So you you set up essentially multisig with an unknown people. Mhmm. And of course, you can set up a federation with with friends of yours or family or whatever. So in that case, maybe it's better, but I feel a bit uneasy having someone to trust when we we have been told all those years don't trust verify. Right. So it goes Bitcoin. Anybody can hold it without any trust from anybody. And now in layer 2, even with Lightning, it requires some sort of trust. So I don't want to be completely strict with that because I run my own Lightning nodes and my family trusts me to run it. And they use the wallets that I have given them, and I can rag them at any point if I want to.
So there is trust there as well. So I don't know. It's the trust that you can accept, I would say.
[00:42:51] McIntosh:
Right. I think that's a good way of putting it too. And I would say this, it's these systems are not so much where we are right now because as we discussed at the very first part of the show, right now, I can send any amount of Bitcoin for 60¢. Okay? If I'm willing to wait, probably much less than that, say, 10, 20¢. On the other hand, 10 years from now, that may not be possible. The cheapest fees may be a $100. So how can I pay for my coffee? My $5 okay. Well, inflation. My $10 cup of coffee in 10 years. I think I'm being generous, but okay. My $10 cup of coffee in 10 years. If I'm paying a $100 in fees, that doesn't compute. So between now and then, we have to figure out something, whether it's improvement on these and acceptance of these because, hey, my cashew fetiment my cashew fetiment. I just smashed everything together.
My liquid cashew fetiment my my cashew mint, has been around for 10 years, so I do trust it. Well, I I don't know. I would my fed a mint if it had been around for 10 years. Because if if my bank has been around for 10 years, there has to be some level of trust there. Right? And I again, I'm not gonna throw 1,000 of dollars on that, but I'm gonna keep pocket change on there. Yeah. And, hopefully, we do things here's an idea. Right? Oh, main chain fees are really expensive. And I think there are actually people working on this. And this is not original to Macintosh because I'm just not that brilliant.
But in my FEDIMIP, we've got 10 people who want to move money to or from the main chain, but they're willing to wait 24 hours. Okay? So I got 10 people in a 24 hour period. What if we batched all those up, and that means that even if the fees were $100 at that time, everybody's only going to pay $10 because we batched the transaction, essentially, and we and we do that in a way that everybody's money is safe and secure and so on and so forth. I think with covenants, that's one of the things that we can accomplish. Not that we have covenants right now, but maybe in 10 years, we will. Right?
So those are some of the things that I believe we will see improvements on. But there's another idea right there because even if I do have to interact with the main chain, if I'm doing it with other people and we batch it all up, like if we carpool, right, we get there together and we save gas and we all have a good time. I don't know. We get in the carpool lane, right? Maybe we get there faster.
[00:46:04] Kenshin:
A lot of companies do that, I've used a few,
[00:46:08] McIntosh:
exchanges in Europe that do that. The exchange is implemented, but they're doing it kind of at a layer above. They're abstracting it out. What I'm talking about is this is well, maybe it is more of this. I don't know. But that is it does allow the point is it does allow for that type of thing. You're right. Yeah. Absolutely. Exchanges do that now. Pools do that. Ocean does that, actually, which they've done pretty good these days, by the way. I'm pretty pleased with that. But yeah.
[00:46:40] Kenshin:
And I agree with you. We we need layer twos and and we might eventually have layer threes and who knows how many layers. But, I agree. We will we will need them for sure. And one good way to use and do all those testing, I would say is go on Oster and make an account on Oster and starts make a wallet. Yeah. Even if it's cashew or lightning or something and start zapping people. That's it. Talk to us. We will zap you back.
[00:47:08] McIntosh:
The I from what I can tell, the Cashew integration, especially, is is happening in Nostriland. So, I am yeah. Sorry. That's definitely one good way. And just getting involved in Nostra more might be a good idea. But from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. 100%.
[00:47:34] Kenshin:
I follow the hashtag introductions on NoStar. So if you make, an account on NoStar, introduce yourself, put a hashtag introductions. Cool. And then a lot of people like me and others on NoStar look at look on this, follow this hashtag and these up the new users. And last week or a few days ago, when was it? It was an influx of 100 of people.
[00:48:00] McIntosh:
Was it from what is that? From TikTok? TikTok. Yes. Yeah.
[00:48:05] Kenshin:
So it was from TikTok. I, I, most of them didn't have a wallet. That's, that's why I want to say that you, you need to do a small research, make, make a wallet. The easiest wallet is, wallet of Satoshi. That's the easiest one, but it's custodial. So you don't need a node or anything. Right? It gives you random name. I mean, it's super easy. I mean, it couldn't be an easier app to, to make a wallet. And then, very cool. And then I would say the coinos, coinos.
[00:48:42] McIntosh:
Io. Yeah, I have heard of that. I don't really know anything about it. I tried it. It's quite good. It's it's, it's like wasabi,
[00:48:50] Kenshin:
very easy, but I think it gives you a lot more options. Let's say. So it's a step up.
[00:48:58] McIntosh:
Very cool. Alright. I lost my list. There we go. I think that's that's I think we've about got that covered. Mhmm.
[00:49:08] Kenshin:
Do we have any supporters? I think Had to send it to Mike? I think we do. Yeah.
[00:49:14] McIntosh:
Man, I we're gonna have to give him a medal of honor. Honor. Dude just does not stop. Alright. Let me double check because that only what you're only seeing is
[00:49:27] Kenshin:
is fountain. Yeah. I see fountain. And I see his comment on fountain.
[00:49:33] McIntosh:
Okay. Well, let's go ahead and start there while I'm bringing this up so that we don't have this big dead air space I cut out. Go ahead and Yeah. Do, do Mike's comment, please.
[00:49:43] Kenshin:
So from supporters, we have sent it Mike again this week with 1069 sets. And he says another good one. I appreciate you guys reading my strategic reserve take. I think a reserve of Bitcoin is important, but I think people overestimate how much good it will be for the US as a country and underestimate how quickly a move away from treasuries will happen and how bad that will be for our government. They will get desperate. They will not tolerate losing power. Right. So that's the comment. Thank you, Mike.
[00:50:23] McIntosh:
Yeah. I appreciate that. There's there's truth to that. I think that's certainly a possibility, and it's one that we should consider. And maybe I'm to an extent blocking that from my mind because I just don't like it. I'll I'll admit to that. It's going to be an interesting 20 years, ladies and gentlemen. And part of the problem when you talk about macroeconomics is, you know, we want I don't wanna say we want because this is typically bad stuff. But, you know, I've been on here talking for years about, the GDP versus debt and things like this. And, like, how can these countries continue? Like, Japan is just at this crazy level, and they've had one kind of, they tried to adjust their rates, and the market went nuts. And our market went nuts. And I view them as being trapped, but they may continue like that for a long time. I don't know.
These things tend to happen slower than we think, but then they once they get going, it's much quicker than we think, if that makes sense. Once they start. I believe, essentially, as a world, we are at a point where fiat is beyond its ability to recover. And it is simply a matter of how it's going to play out at this point. Yeah. Virtually every country in the world has so much debt compared to their GDP. It's just not possible for them to, to to fix that, or they're not going to do like Argentina did and go in and slash entrenched governmental agencies and this kind of thing. I mean, like, Malay removed, I wanna say, like, 13 governmental agencies.
Like, that'd be like us going in and saying, yeah. We don't need the, I don't know, the FBI and the, the USDA and all of this stuff. People a lot of countries that just would not work. Mhmm. It just people would I mean, we've actually seen this to on a very small scale in France. When they went and raised their retirement age, like, people went nuts. Uh-huh. Because they said, well, this just it's not possible for this to continue, and we're gonna raise it from a very low level, relatively speaking, to a slightly less lower level.
And, I mean, just people were protesting and all this and I don't know what the end the outcome of that was. But, man, that was just over retirement age. What if we start talking about health care and medic well, Medicare and health care and Social Security? I am of the age where Social Security is a thing for me, and I'm starting to think about it. And but the reality is for decades, I've just basically expected not to have a Social Security, which is our pension, our national pension, for those of you who aren't from here. And any amount that I get, whether it's a 100% or 80% or 50% or 25% will just be a bonus.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Absolutely. Because I'm not counting on it because I know the government doesn't manage money well. Yeah. Good. Well no. I think I said that right. Go English. Yeah. And for us here in Sweden, we have the opposite.
[00:54:28] Kenshin:
The government does the same exact thing, but people trust it so much. So no one complains. So when you say the people in France go out on the streets, demonstrate, here's the opposite. It's like, oh, okay. They changed that. I need to work for another year. No big deal. Slight inconvenience.
[00:54:46] McIntosh:
Wow. I wonder where that comes from. I've that's interesting. I know where ours comes from. I can't vouch for for France. I that's an interesting insight though. So it's essentially the the exact top. Is there, do you feel like there's a level where that's just not going to happen though? Like people, is there a level where people will say enough is enough? No, I haven't seen that is the opposite. They get deeper and deeper into believing
[00:55:18] Kenshin:
and agreeing everything the government, the mainstream media tells them. And that's why when you see, the approval ratings for Trump in Europe and, Sweden was on the top with most negative views, like 8 to 9% or whatever it was.
[00:55:37] McIntosh:
Don't worry. We'll buy Sweden too. Hopefully. I'm sorry. I should not have said that.
[00:55:43] Kenshin:
I'll cut that out. There's nothing valuable here. You can buy Norway. They have all the oil. Hey. You got some nice mountains.
[00:55:51] McIntosh:
Got some nice mountains. Gotta be some minerals under those mountains. Right? Yeah. No. Oh. I don't that's all that stuff is craziness to me. I don't I don't even
[00:56:02] Kenshin:
understand. You want to hear the newspaper front page they had to you 2 days ago? Sure. Absolutely. It was a paid ad as I understood, and they had the full page, with the whole Swedish map. I have posted it on Nostar, and it has all the the Swedish military bases. And they show Trump next to full page saying those are all the Swedish military bases Trump will have access to. And while what can he do on them? Will he smuggle illegal nuclear weapons in them? And that's the fear mongering and say, pay us and sign the petition so we can block which military basis he can get access to. That's the top, top newspaper, top newspaper in Sweden.
[00:56:59] McIntosh:
I gotta be honest. If you don't want Americans there
[00:57:03] Kenshin:
No. Sense. Swedes love Americans. It's crazy. It's the only country they think is better than them, literally.
[00:57:11] McIntosh:
But they're the complete opposite as far as I can tell. I don't know.
[00:57:15] Kenshin:
It's interesting. When it comes to Trump, it's it's it's crazy. The negativity here.
[00:57:22] McIntosh:
Well, I don't wanna turn this into political podcast. We already do that too much, but that it is very interesting. Very interesting. And by the way, I did get the Telegram Excel spreadsheet thing opened, and, that was our only boost. We did have some streaming, and we appreciate that, of course. Agent Natasha. Yeah. So thank you very much. Yep. We've got some dedicated people out there, and we appreciate that. Alright. That's man, always something. Always something. I really wanna set up mining over there, man. I I won't, but I'm just saying, I hear there's cheap power there in the north. In the very north. Yes.
[00:58:04] Kenshin:
Oh. You don't want to My miners don't care. Yeah. There is no sun in the winter in the very north.
[00:58:11] McIntosh:
I yes. That is true. I, when I was young I'm gonna tell this real quick. I promise. I still. We took a trip to Alaska, and we got north of Fairbanks in July. It was dark. It it never even got dark. It was light. And then around midnight, it would get slightly less light, and then it would lighten back up again in a couple of hours. And that was literally it. And I'm sure the winter is the exact opposite. Right? So, I mean, I get it. I don't think I would like the winter, all winter. I would I like it for a a week or 2? Actually, I might given food, power, Internet, and the right books.
I might be a a happy camper for a little while, but not all winter. I could see that be but the summer, if I had, like, blackout windows where I could, you know, go to sleep when I wanted, man, have you seen vegetables grown in Alaska? It's a and I'm it's anywhere in the Arctic like that. It's amazing because they get 24 hours of sunlight. Nice. Anyways. Yeah. Where were we at? Alright. We just got side railed, sidetracked. News and notes. Don't have a whole lot this week. There was a few things on my Twitter feed I did wanna bring up. 1 especially I'm gonna go ahead and lead off with this. Ladies and gentlemen ladies and gentlemen, lend me your ears.
Just 2, 3 weeks ago, we were talking about why we Bitcoin. Right? What makes Bitcoin different? And one of those things, Kenshin, was decentralization. Was it not? Yep. We also we also talked about how Satoshi left Bitcoin very, very early in. In fact, we were talking about this. I actually I really wish he would have stayed longer, maybe not years longer, but longer than he did. He did not. He was, like, 6 months or 9 months or something involved in the project. And then one day, as far as I can tell, just out of the blue, he just says, yeah. I've got this other project I'm working on. This project's in good hands. Bye. And that was it. And nobody heard from him. And now we will all talk about who was Satoshi, but that kept Bitcoin decentralized.
Bitcoin has no CEO. Bitcoin has no leader of the board, leader of the foundation, anything like that. Exhibit a, I'm going to read this word for word, January 21 from the check verified account of Vitalik Buterin, who, in case you did not know, was the head of Ethereum. No. Period. This is not how this game works. So this is a game, first of all. Words matter, buddy. This is not a game for me, but the person deciding the new EF, which is Ethereum Foundation leadership team, is me, meaning himself. One of the goals of the ongoing reform is to give the EF a, quote, proper born.
But until that happens, it's me. If you, quote, keep the pressure on, close quote, then you are creating an environment that is actually toxic to top talent. Some of Ethereum's best devs have been messaging me recently expressing their disgust with the social media environment that people like you, and I don't even know who this is too, are creating. You are making my job harder, all caps, and you are decreasing the chance that I have any interest whatsoever in doing, quote, what you want. Quote close quote. And then it says my lady, and I don't know what that means. I have no idea. I'm not an Ethereum person at this point in my life. Thankfully, I left that behind years ago.
And I have told y'all on a very consistent basis, if you own Ethereum, you need to sell it. You either need to consider selling it at some point during the cycle in the Bitcoin, or you need to sell it at the top, whether that's for Bitcoin or for cash. That's your choice, obviously, and any of this is your choice. This is not good, and I do not know what's going on here, and I really don't actually care. But this is an example of a person who is effectively if Vitalik quit Ethereum, it would explode. But apparently it's not doing well under his, and I'm gonna use quotes just like he did, leadership.
[01:03:20] Kenshin:
I'm sorry, but if he quits, he will sell 50% of all Ethereum that he owns and it would crush it anyway. Which is 70% of what was I mean, I don't know. It's just it's a mess.
[01:03:32] McIntosh:
I hope they get through it, frankly, for the people that do have Ethereum. And and then it doesn't just crater. By the way, bit Bitcoin to Ethereum, it's at an all time low, in terms of cost performance or whatever it is. Something to keep in mind. It's not a good look. And if they don't get this straight, it's not even gonna make it through the bull market, much less the bear market. So I don't know. But this is why we Bitcoin this is a great reason why. Wished I knew what the whole my lady thing was because he keeps putting it on his post. I don't know.
[01:04:12] Kenshin:
Maybe it I don't know. Don't don't don't give him any more views on his posts.
[01:04:19] McIntosh:
Well, I just wanted because he is in charge of that project. That's my own I'm not trying to give him any credence, please. Thank you for bringing that up. I this is not about Vitality. This is about any any project that has a CEO, that has someone in charge. And I'm going to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, outside of Bitcoin, there is always someone in charge. Okay?
[01:04:48] Kenshin:
Mhmm. Exactly.
[01:04:49] McIntosh:
I already mentioned the one about the SEC. By the way, I am just gonna say this. I've had a, somewhat tumultuous relationship with Bitcoin Magazine and Bitcoin, the company. I appreciate that they were early on. I appreciate some of the content that they bring. But for years, they've had this kind of attitude that I have not liked. And maybe early on, they weren't. I don't know. I don't remember specifically, to be honest. But when the CEO of the company is literally on this is this is mind blowing. On Twitter saying how good it was that the president was, quote, degenning on chain, talking about the Solana meme coin that he launched.
Okay? And then the magazine itself turns around and says that Trump is a the Trump meme coin is a, I'm gonna call it a casino coin. They called it something else. I'm done with it. I'm going to read their content when it's relevant, but I don't think I'm ever gonna go to another Bitcoin, the company, whatever, magazine conference, and they put on a lot of them, including the the one that I did go to last year. I I just I'm not gonna promote that. I'm not. I don't think that and I wish they would just sell the brand because these people are not Bitcoiners. These people are crypto people.
Yeah. Plain and sound. I agree. And I just don't know how else to say it, or cut it. And I've cut them slack for years, and I'm done with it. So I guess they're officially on my bad list.
[01:06:53] Kenshin:
Right.
[01:06:54] McIntosh:
I don't know. Good. I agree. Is there anything else in the news that we really need to talk about? We are getting I I have to give a a tip.
[01:07:04] Kenshin:
If they want to watch a nice, I don't know, documentary or Okay. Clip. Mhmm. It's a clip called What's the Problem. It's made by oh, I'm sorry. I had it on here. It's a clip made by Satmo, s a t m o, Satmo Joe. It's called what's the problem, and he explains why we are in the situation we are with Fiat.
[01:07:37] McIntosh:
I think I've got it. It's an hour and a half long, though. No. It's not a clip. It's 39.30
[01:07:42] Kenshin:
minutes. 39 minutes. I I Do you have, Yeah. I put the link. Do you have something we can point to? Yes. I put the link in the notes. And then so this is really good. And and he goes through, an imaginary story. Like you have people stranded on an island and they need to use some sort of currency to, yeah. Use us money. And they get split up, split up into 2 groups. And 1 group is using essentially a fiat currency and the other group is using hard money like Bitcoin. So it goes through that pros and cons and shows in a very easy to understand example why Fiat is a failing system and creates inflation and all the problems that we have and why Bitcoin is, yeah, the best alternative we have right now.
Okay. Very good. And that's good also include that in the show. Yeah. And that's good videos is for people who don't know Bitcoin yet. So it's to make them understand those topics a bit better.
[01:08:42] McIntosh:
Let me check one more thing. I do have at least one software. It looks like we got a couple of software updates. I'll go ahead and throw the first one out. Yeah. This looks like about it. So there's 2. There's one on Domus. Do you have your fingers on that? Or do you want me do I need to do that one?
[01:09:03] Kenshin:
Domus? No. I don't have it. I have the Breeze. Okay.
[01:09:08] McIntosh:
Oh, I actually didn't. You're right. There is one for Breeze and then there's one for paste b g c pay server. Okay. I'll do Domus and you can do Breeze and then I'll finish with the okay. So Domus, which is a Nostra client for iPhone, for Macs, for iPads, whatever. It's it's Apple only. That's, but it's a Nostra client. I actually use it, and they do have a new version out, 1.12, for UX improvements, which is always good to see and, just general bug fixes. Okay?
[01:09:43] Kenshin:
Right. And then we have, Breeze. The nodeless 0.6.2 is a SDK, so it's for developers to implement liquid, and lightning transactions in their apps. And they have, they have implemented now a real time sync and pay to BIP 353 addresses. So the Bitcoin implementation protocol. 353. Yes. So it's mostly developer related things there.
[01:10:23] McIntosh:
Okay. Right. Roy is the the, developer there. And man, he's just been turning out stuff. I don't think Breeze gets enough credit, to be honest. I don't. But yeah. And then the last one on the BTC pay server, which is a very, very well known Bitcoin payment processing platform for, like, merchants, version 2.06. And I'm gonna read this. This is pretty funny. It's not well, I'm gonna read this. Fix to prevent duplicate payouts in certain on chain configurations. So if you're running version 2, this is a bug fix. You should do it. And the notes say, this release includes a security fix for merchants using refund pull payments on chain with automated payout processors along with several bug fixes and improvements. Quote, we could not reproduce the reported issue on our own instances, but the remote reporting merchant confirmed the issue was resolved.
So, man, I I don't know exactly what was going on there, but, I'm glad they got it fixed. That did not sound good.
[01:11:37] Kenshin:
Yeah.
[01:11:38] McIntosh:
Alright. So that's gonna be it for our software updates, and let me wrap things up. Okay. So we're gonna go ahead and wrap things up. I'm gonna kinda skip a little bit of some of this stuff this week because we are over time. I would encourage you if you are listening to this podcast and you love it too. First of all, please share it with other people. That is the number one way to help us. We are trying to grow this podcast, and it is extremely valuable when our listeners tell other people about this podcast. We are a podcasting 2.0 podcast. There's all kinds of features including there's a lot of nostr integration that's going on right now. I did wanna mention that.
I don't really have time to go into it, but, there's lots of very interesting kind of symbiosis going on there working together. But podcasting 2 point o apps in general have all the latest features like transcripts and chapters, things that don't show up in regular podcasting apps. Plus, you can use them to support the list the listeners, the podcast hosts themselves. People like and I, like our listeners, Send It Mike, who boosted in a 1,069 SaaS. What he did is he used a lightning wallet specifically with fountain to support us by boosting in, that amount and a message at the same time that we get that we can then receive that feedback. And, of course, we comment on the air and this kind of thing. It's a great way to kinda get that feedback from our listeners about what's going on and ideas for improvements and that kind of thing. So we really appreciate that. It is a good way. I will say this. It's also a great way to get a hold of us. It doesn't have to be a a huge amount. You know, you can just send a 100 sats and say great show, that kind of thing.
So we have a there's a list of those apps at podcast apps.com. You can just go there and take a look. I know we use different ones. I use a couple of different ones, Fountain and Podcast Guru. I think you use Fountain and something else. Podcast
[01:14:00] Kenshin:
Guru as well.
[01:14:02] McIntosh:
Oh, okay. Maybe we need to branch out. Yeah. We'll see. And 4th verse. Yeah. Thanks for being here. We hope this has been helpful, and we would love to hear from you. We have all the ways to reach us listed at the bottom of each episode page on the website at satoshisplebs.com. Stay humble, friends. Go out. Make it a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye.
