Mere Mortals Conversations

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Is Juan about to create the newest version of LOTR or Gorillaz?

In Episode #493 of 'Musings', Juan and I discuss: the origins of various types of lore, how these worlds are constructed with varying degrees of complexity and interactivity, hard versus soft world building, a creator's control over the narrative, how modern technology and platforms like Fandom wikis allow easier access, the challenges of maintaining a coherent narrative in a world where anyone can contribute to the story and the strategy we would take to create a new universe.

Huge thanks to The Late Bloomer Actor for the support, greatly appreciated!

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:00:38) World Building in Fiction & Examples
(00:05:36) Hard vs Soft World Building
(00:17:26) Entry Points into World Building
(00:24:36) Boostagram Lounge
(00:30:28) Interactivity and Audience Participation
(00:44:06) Challenges and Future of World Building
(00:50:15) Personal Approaches to World Building
(01:04:06) V4V

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[00:00:06] Juan Granados:

Welcome back, Mere Mortalites it is the September 14, you've got Juan on this side. And Kyrin.   And Sunday mornings, we go live. It is all slightly   earlier today as Kyrin is heading off to Comic Con. And it fits   kind of well with the topic we'll be talking about today, which is world building. We were gonna do this last week, but I was unwell. Dead sick. Dead sick is probably a better terminology for it. So we're back, once again. If you do want to join us live, feel free to do so normally at 9AM on a Sunday time, Australian Eastern Standard Time. But world building. So, man, there's, there's like a ton load of things we can talk about on a world building perspective. So   few pieces, I guess, to of commonology for people. One, you've read all the Lord of the Rings books. Correct?  



[00:00:53] Kyrin Down:

Like a long time ago, but Well, no. No. Not all of them. I've read the the trilogy and The Hobbit. And Oh, sorry. Yep. We'll talk about this. There's, like, a whole line I've read, like, the semilarion or whatever Sure. And all the other.  

[00:01:05] Juan Granados:

To be fair, I'm currently halfway through   the two towers, second book in the trilogy,   and it's unlikely that I will also go and read more JR Tolkien,   products or books or anything that came out from, like, his son and everything else. But, yeah, we'll get into that probably as a bit. So Had too much old Tom Bombadil. Yeah. Too much. Although Tom Bombadil doesn't even appear in, like, most of the other books. However, so No. It's just that one thing. Just the one. Karen's, read those books, and I guess I'll I'll refer to part of that in context. Both myself and Karen,   we hold some VeeFriends NFTs. Yeah. That's great. I was there from OG days. Karen started to come in over the last couple of years and compile some some goodies. So Gary, if you're listening to this,   chill, chill away, man. Chill away. I don't want to see the sub one if bull. But again, there's gonna be some context of world building around that. Yeah, I guess the interest that comes to my end is   I've read a lot of   youth fiction books and now starting to get myself more into fiction in general. World building as like the concept of,   like, probably the most direct one I that I think about is just world building in the context of a fiction story or just a story in general. But   you can stretch that terminology or concept into things like be friends or like a product, right? The world building a particular thing.  

I can refer back to loads of things when I was a kid and seeing the world   building of it and some did it really successfully. And so it stands to this day   where others that I could make reference to   kinda continue, but the they didn't let last, like, you know, the time span that they might have, should have, if that maybe had better world building capabilities.   There's something recently that I was checking out, which was hard world building versus soft world building. I don't know if you've heard that, the differentiation. So we can talk about that aspect of it as well, which I think I'd never heard about those concepts and it kind of does apply in my, like, generalness that I was thinking about it. And then I wanted to talk also about   world building as it applies to the new mortals, right, which is like another concept of world building, but that's a little bit more of a stretch piece. So I don't know if there's any of those that interest you that we should begin with or you got another topic that you wanted to launch off from? Probably  

[00:03:17] Kyrin Down:

just   the general like, what is a world building exercise? And you kind of mentioned story. That was the thing that I was   most linking to as well. Like it's it's kind of storytelling.   And usually with these types of things, I'm like, Oh, let's break it into the three different mediums, you know, video, audio and text. Yeah. And as I was going into this, I'm like, No, it   it that doesn't work. It requires much more granulation than that. And so just for for people at home, what we know when we're talking about world building, I've got a whole list of things here so   you can find it in video games. So World of Warcraft and this is not this is more like where it originates tabs, but not they it typically branches out from wherever it starts off. So video games with World of Warcraft   books, you know, Harry Potter series, for example, board games, Dungeons and Dragons,   We've got podcasts.  

One's called Critical Role, which is a   kind of like a Dungeons and Dragons role playing game that they've now made into their own kind of lore.   We've got movies with Star Wars TV shows, Star Trek comics,   all the Marvel,   even arcade games. Donkey Kong, for example, started there.   There's a semi recorded word-of-mouth tales is like the Nordic mythology of the, you know, Greek, Greek gods, the Nordic gods, Thor and Loki and things like that.   Manga record of Ragnarok   has a has a kind of world building in the anime   neon Genesis   Evangelion trading cards, Pokemon. And I think you could maybe even consider things like   art or paintings like   HR Giger. So the guy who   kind of helped create alien   well, the   the stylistic   alien   movie franchise and even graffiti, Kilroy Banksy,   things like that. So I think you can see from all of them, like,   look, not all of them are   world building or like these grand world type events, but a lot of them have the storytelling mixed with like linkages. I think linkages like a lot of linkages   of   of concepts or ideas is kind of what I think of when I think of something that is  

[00:05:34] Juan Granados:

a world or has like a world building type. Yeah. And so because one of the other ones that you didn't mention there, which I was toying around the idea, because I guess you could get through there's like a definition of world building. But   I reckon it could be it would be loose, you can kind of stretch it because the one that came to mind was comedy. I'm thinking of Joe, Joe, right? So when I was down in Canberra not too long ago, we went to go see a comedy gig. There was quite a few like really good,   Berrien   comedians down there, one of them not being Joey. So they're all quite good with on the stage. And as they told their stories   slash jokes,   part of it was   real life. In fact, maybe most of it was out of real life. And then they injected   little bits of extra story or humor, which might not have been real,   but it was just an extra exaggerated push to normal reality. And   I might consider that an aspect of world building in that   they were building just for that specific joke. That we're building a little bit of a context and, you know, positioning of people and where you are and what they're trying to achieve out of it. So that has, like you said, linkages and threads to reality.  

Because   when when if if I was to immediately think world building, I go off fiction,   you've invented a completely new storyline to think, and here I'm gonna reference it lots, Lord of the Rings, the whole whole complete different world. And then from that world,   and the people and the places, he then created the story and the languages that came along with that. But you can be very, very close to reality with just a little bit extra of a push of exaggeration.   And I would still consider that world building in a way, Because   if I'm I'm considering it, if I'm trying to define world building like that, it will then apply to the mere mortals stuff that we do. I'll probably touch on that a little bit later in the piece. But I kind of go, world building can even to me be really like   minute   little contained pieces of either exaggeration or the real world. It doesn't it can be 95%   our existing world or a story  

[00:07:38] Kyrin Down:

with a little bit of an extra push and a difference to extend that world building sort of creation. Yeah, Dave Chappelle is probably that's that's the person that was kind of coming into my mind with that because he brings it he starts to joke off, you know, brings it around, he loops it around, then it will bring it back again. And it's this kind of touching point.   But still going out and exploring different, you know, realms of ideas,   whilst   still having a coherent   structure.   I definitely would   say in general, I think fiction is a fictional thing. Because if you just take someone's life, for example, so even if they're wildly   successful  

[00:08:19] Juan Granados:

slash interesting. Yeah, like autobiography of Elon Musk. It's not world building because it's reality. It's it's actual current. Yeah, threat of the universe. What's going on in the story? Yeah. Yeah. So I think you could  

[00:08:31] Kyrin Down:

create   a world around   a character like that. And   many interesting things that happen and  

[00:08:40] Juan Granados:

but yeah, I'd feel it needs more the creation aspect, which is the fictional. Yep. Good point. Yeah. So let me let me let me go into this definition of   the, sorry, the distinction that I had, the hard world building versus soft world building. So I liked the way that I mean, obviously, it's a dichotomy. It goes between the two of them, right, in this range. But the example was, hard world building is is Lord of the Rings. And what does that mean? It's   J. R. Tolkien had a   very   specifically laid out path of what this world should look like. AKA he built out the entire   maps and locations   and mountains and this and then the elf people that came around with it. Created a language for them. Languages, like multiple languages that was part of this thing. So he   created this world. Right?  

And however, he he did that. I actually don't know the details of exactly how he kept track of it and all all of that, but created his whole world. And then from that world, a story emerges, how he kind of sort of says it. I kind of think about it like,   Yeah, but you kind of have to have some sort of story in your mind already when you're doing that, unless this was like pure,   you're just   autistically creating this gigantic world off to the side and then all of a sudden like oh man   there's a story here I don't know if that actually works out that way. It's got to be something that happens with it. But it's a hard world building in that you've just created a huge gigantic world and when you've created the story and again the story could be displayed in text or video or audio how the form is, it's like you don't   the viewer, there's no   like viewer led ability for you to kind of expand or change on the particular story that's being told. Like, it's very hard. It's a no, we we are battling this particular thing. And we're going here and you're going past the lake in the mountains off to this left. There's no   place to   give you any any leeway to say like, oh, but you know, what if that mountain was actually on the Northern Side or if it was like this different area? No. There's none of that. There's just like, this is what happens. So Lord of the Rings is and some of the some other books I I've seen as like that's your   hard world building and where maybe the creator   knows exactly what this world is supposed to look like. That's how it stretches.  

An example,   of one of my like youth fiction books that I really enjoyed that,   so I guess it differs in   the   depth maybe of the world building. So Alex Rider, Alex Rider could be considered a hard world building because   it once again,   the author Anthony Horowitz   doesn't leave things to the imagination for you to pick up as like, oh, what happened next? Right? It's more of like, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened, this is where they are, this happened. This is a person, this is the details.   And again, it's for the youth.  

However, so it's simplified way down like this. There's no loose ends in those books. There's no loose ends. And everything gets wrapped up at the end, even if you think like, oh, the bad guy got away. Correct, correct. So there's none of that. But again, and it's just like the the the different depth that you can have. So that's as we say, like, obviously, Lord of the Rings has a lot more depth in this world building than an Alex Rider book. But there's still that concept of world building in Alex Rider. It's just the depth is less. It's it's an easier thing to read and pick up and go. But it's will be a hard it's a hard world build. It's a exactly what's happening. You've got no deviation from that. Somewhere in the middle that I've heard being said is something like Harry Potter. That's like, yes, it does have hard world building in that there's   the houses and what happens in in the various books, but there are some interactions with different, you know, characters in the story and everything that you could have a little bit of leeway of, like, oh, what will happen to to this person in this place? And I think towards the end of the Harry Potter books, you know, they fast forward into the future and they're doing certain things, but they kind of leave it to the imagination of the reader or viewer if you're watching the movies of like, oh, yeah. What kind of happens next? So there's loose ends that they leave out, so that can be termed sort of in the middle. And I guess the other example of those world buildings is   unlike Lord of the Rings, so maybe   someone could tell me I'm wrong here. But in Lord of the Rings,   like we talked about, there's the trilogy, there's The Hobbit, and then there's a whole host of extra books that have come out. There's a lot of unofficial   Lord of the Rings pieces that have come out that are beyond that. But it's challenging to create them because it's such a strong, hard world that's already like penta like this is what happens. This is the locations.  

There's   people can create more things, but it's always back to that kind of foundational principles that I really deviate away. It's very hard to move away from those hard worlds. Whereas the Harry Potter kind of in the middle,   a little bit more softer in that there's heaps of unofficial stuff out there from the books, from the characters and everything else. And it's murkier. You can like, you can imagine that that world could be expanded in those ways because the way that, JK Rowling produced the book is just not as hard as it would be. So you can create these different tendrils and threads to the story. Yeah. That's kind of how it it I guess the   flaw of it is. And then the soft, like really soft world building was,   I'm blanking on the name. It's not too much a book, but this was,   videos, a lot of the like more Japanese style   books,   books,   movies like Spirited Away  

[00:13:56] Kyrin Down:

and. I think I want to say something maybe like Goosebumps   where it's oh, yeah. There's a world, but it's not as   interconnected   and in some ways and,   well, I'll touch upon interactivity with the audience as well shortly. But   perhaps the concept you're looking for is canon.   So there's,   in the comics world when you've got comics like coming out   or different pieces of media, for example,   it's like, okay, well, what is considered   an actual   piece of the law? What's canon? What is the heart? Probably looking for hard because there's things where it's like,   you know, Obi Wan died in this scenario over here, or like some, you know, Captain America died over here. And but then he's in   this other one. Yeah, that's your point brought back to life. So has he technically died before or you know, it gets confusing because you're like, wait, over here, he was doing this over here. He's doing this, which is the real one. Yeah,   which which is actually real or not. And   that's where there's this kind of concept of canon where it's like, no, this is the official   law  

[00:15:10] Juan Granados:

of how things happened. It is the actual world of what's happening. The others is just Yep, that was a side piece that, you know,  

[00:15:20] Kyrin Down:

perhaps they got a little bit too loose with their IP and let some rogue writer do some crazy shit. And   that's that's also the thing where it's,   maybe   I would think something like hard world building is kind of like one person's vision,   or this is how it's created.   Whereas something like Spider Man has had,   I don't know how many different artists  

[00:15:44] Juan Granados:

and variations  

[00:15:45] Kyrin Down:

and people all having their interpretation of like, who is Batman and what does Batman do? And, you know, you can look up how I went down the Batman rabbit hole for a while of the different type of   kind of like   cartoon versions of him. And there's all of these ones where there's ones where he's like this fucking gritty old man   who ends up actually killing the Joker and which is like he's never meant to kill, you know? And then there's other ones where it's, you know, it's the real neutered Batman version, which is more for like the kids.  

[00:16:20] Juan Granados:

And so, okay, which one of those is it's the real Batman? Yeah, that's a good point, actually. Yeah, I guess. And I guess maybe that's the concept of when it's a   softer world build maybe it where   where it allows   for   those permutations, those variations to exist to happen.   Maybe those sort of maybe comic superheroes because people   wanted to see different things or just there's enough flexibility in that   when the creator put it together, it's just allowed for those open ended areas or maybe just genuinely   people just even if it is semi hard well built, they'll just say whatever, I'm just gonna create whatever it is I want from this and just go right with it. So yeah, so you can have a whole domain of difference, I guess, between really, really strongly laid out storylines and those that are open enough so that the   the individual who's, you know, reading or watching it kind of picks up in their own world and creates it as their own. Yeah.  



[00:17:16] Kyrin Down:

All right. One   topic before   perhaps boost grams and then more the interaction with   the audience because I think that's an important part of it.   A lot of it I find is   how how would you get into something that is,   a   a creation, for example. So like Lord of the Rings is   there's multiple   different entry points now. You've got the movies that be some people's first. You've got the books.   And   I had this kind of concept of the easy entry versus working for it. So   in I find some things a lot easier to kind of slide your way into one if they just don't have that much   creation already. So say the someone is creating something and it's, you know, it's the first issue of the comic.  

There's like a limited amount. It's like, well, that's that's all you can go into. If you go into the V friends comics, there's four of them. That's, that's it. Yep. And   they haven't even officially entered the what they call the alpha age, which is coming next year, which is where things will be canon.   So be friends is doesn't even have a world building. As of yet. It's got some characters, but there's nothing official.   Whereas something like Spider Man.   There's so many different ways like how can you learn about Spider Man? There's Do you have to go back to the very first? I was gonna say I would even find it challenging if you asked me that right now.  

[00:18:42] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Obviously, you could go and   Google it and find it. But if you were just to go without without really knowing it, if you said, hey, are you going to find out like the real details of Spider Man? It would be a little bit challenging to begin with to go like, oh, you know, do I check the movies? Do I check the manga? Do I check from like the creator? Is there something else? Initial sketches? Yeah. So  

[00:19:05] Kyrin Down:

when I think back   to, let's say, twenty years ago when I had a lot more free time and was just   ingesting   random shit,   I   neglected to mention music as an entry point, but Gorillaz was one of the first kind of   world building type things that I I was I became interested in,   outside of perhaps the Alex writer series and things like that.   And   so, you know, gorillas, they put out a bunch of music, go onto our channel and see a bunch of people hating on me. So they said their first album wasn't   accepted well or whatever,   in one of our shorts. And   I actually found it difficult to get into them. So   I like the character of two d and Murdoch and noodles and, and Russell.  

And so,   which are the band members,   animated band for those who don't know. And   I'm like, Oh, wait, they kind of have like a history and a backstory. I want to learn more about this because some of the song lyrics reference   what happened to them and two d like he's got these fucked up eyes and that's because Murdoch actually like,   hit him with a car or something. So I'm like, Oh, okay, I want to get into this more.   But I actually found it really difficult because   the more I got into it, the more it was like referencing,   you know, a pamphlet that was put out in   in London and England when the band was first kind of   starting off. And so I'm like, okay, and then there was this plastic beach album, which came out and they had a website. So I was like, going through this website and which was kind of like, I guess you'd call it a metaverse at the time. It was this really clunky.  

Okay. You know, you're moving forward with a character. So it's kind of like a video game, but you're not actually doing things. You're just clicking on stuff and seeing   what will happen. What happens is like mini   arcade games within it.   And I just found it like   it got tedious at a point where I'm like, I can't get into this more. Same with The Lord of the Rings. I, I found it just too drawn out   and   didn't have like good easy recommendation points of   start off with these books and then jump on to this book and then jump in then if you want like the craziest stuff, I didn't find like an easy route into it.   But   that's I think a little bit different nowadays with   the internet and something called fandom. Have you heard of this before? Fandom?  

Yeah, it's just like fan created content. Yeah. Great. So it's like a Wikipedia,   but for   anything.   So,   you know,   Wikipedia is for anything as well, I guess. But if you look specifically  

[00:21:42] Juan Granados:

for,   like, I guess, content in relation to the world building that we're referring to. Yep. So if you looked up  

[00:21:49] Kyrin Down:

Hunter x Hunter, for example,   there's   a fandom Wikipedia for that   fandom fandom pedia.   And   it has, you know, clickable links for every character that's mentioned for every like,   arc of the story and things like this. And you can go   what I like about that is it's it's a real   kind of, I don't know, pyramid structure. You go into Hunter X Hunter fandom   and you read, I guess, like the general story And then you can just cascade down into like, oh, this character, oh, wait, he's got a special ability. How did that ability create into like, the world of Nen and stuff like that.   And I found that really interesting, because   that is I feel like more easy entry point. And so when   I hear something, watch something new, that's a good   entry point. So   if I had something like that for gorillas back in the day, it might have existed, but I didn't find it. They could have been   where where I would have entered through   in terms of the most visited websites in the world. Where do you think this fandom ranks?  

Oh, is it number one? Is it top 10? Top 100? Top 1,000? Top 10,000? Top 100,000? What do you think it's at?  

[00:23:06] Juan Granados:

Maybe top 10,000?  

[00:23:07] Kyrin Down:

It's number 35 in the world. Wow. It beats, you know,  

[00:23:12] Juan Granados:

tons of porn websites, for example. Wow. That's that's ultra surprising. I didn't realize it was like, Yeah, that high.  

[00:23:18] Kyrin Down:

So things like this   are obviously very, very popular.   And   I think that just goes to show like world building and world creation.   Like, we're going to stop for it. We just want to   like, let me dive in. Let me dig into it. I want to know more about this character or this thing. Yeah,   that that, that made a lot of sense to me there. I was like, okay, yeah, top 35 in the world. Like, if I think about it, shit. Yeah. There's so many  

[00:23:44] Juan Granados:

different stories out there to be told how if you if you have like a nice easy source to get into it, that makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah, I think well, in general, like I've I've I'm pretty sure I've gone to I think we started to create one for the Cockpunch series, Legends of Aladdin, the group that I was in. And we, like, were creating   the pages for all of that. And then we just kind of stopped because there wasn't enough material really being put out. And then see there in a world building perspective, it's like   there's just enough information that's coming out in terms of the podcast that Tim Ferriss created and   some of the, if you call the characters   from the NFTs, but   there wasn't enough meat in there to really go create it as you went and just absolutely made up whatever it is that you wanted and you have no clue if it's   within the concept of what is trying to be created and art. So,  

[00:24:33] Kyrin Down:

you're hinting at what the next topic will be, but let's, let's do the boost pyramid. Let's do the boost pyramid.   I'll pick it up. For those at home who are watching   exciting times right now because,   something that I've been neglecting for you guys for a while is about to happen. We do have a boostogram. So the Chucks Cloth Clocks,   the Chucks Cloth Beanie   It's coming on for a little bit and I need it because I'm actually rather hairless at the moment. But that's a that's a spoiler for perhaps next week's episode.   So doing some world building right now  

[00:25:06] Juan Granados:

on what's to come in the mere mortals. The mere mortals now there's. Yeah. Again, a lot of like streaming stuff coming through because, something from the late bloomer actor. This is around the conversation we have for the, year February.   And he was saying, I'm a little perplexed. So by February, twenty five years away, you are okay in thinking that nanobots will fix our injuries and we will be able to control things or communicate through thoughts. Then you say we won't have humanoid robots in our homes. Mhmm.   Have you watched the video news on robot tech? Personally, I think we'll be lucky to have a structured society in 2100   as morbid as that may sound. We send 146¢.  



[00:25:39] Kyrin Down:

No. Okay. First of all, thank you. Late bloomer actor. We appreciate that. He's a podcaster as well. I believe he's he's got a show.   Can't recall what it's probably called the Late Bloomer actor.   And he's Aussie as well. From what I can remember.   I still stand by what I said. I think it's totally possible to have   crazy amazing technology that   doesn't just doesn't work in certain scenarios.   Hence, and my whole argument was   the   robot.   Why? Why don't we have more butlers in our houses? For example, like,   we can hire people to do our cooking cleaning,   we could have, you know, maids and live in maids and stuff like that. Why don't we do that all the time? And I think the reason is like, we just wouldn't   don't want that person in your house. It's like, get that get that fucking person out of my house. Like, sure. No way. Sure. They're cleaning and no way. That's not the answer, man. What was the answer? The answer would be most people just wouldn't afford it. Most people wouldn't be able to afford it. I I don't know about that. No.  

I reckon I'll I'll put it Would you want a maid, a butler in your house hanging around?  

[00:26:50] Juan Granados:

No.   But that wouldn't be the that wouldn't be the number one reason that I wouldn't wanna have a butler. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think the the cost aspect of it would be the harsher thing. Because I mean, let's just say a butler's a $100. Yeah. Right? So, like, full  

[00:27:04] Kyrin Down:

time butler. Yeah. I think most people, if you're gonna go like dams. Say they're $10.  

[00:27:10] Juan Granados:

Oh, if it's $10. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   But even more if it's a robot and not a human. No, no, no. So   okay, this gets into another aspect. But yes, if it's a, if it's a full time butler,   $10, they come in in the morning at like 9AM and they leave at 5PM.   Absolutely. No, no, no. So they're staying, they're staying in your house the entire. So yeah, staying in the house concept is a bit like off for me. Yes. I'd be like, maybe because, you know,  

[00:27:36] Kyrin Down:

and look, maybe this is perhaps a different point because I'm thinking the robots staying in your house all the time. Like it's always around. Yeah.   And maybe that's something I need to change and say like, Okay, no, it   fucking lives in the closet over here.   Emerges   once everyone's out of the house does it doesn't mean and cooking and shit like that. And then   scurries back into its den before everyone gets home. Okay, that's   that that is perhaps terrible.   That's not the world that I've been presented to with   videos and my expectations, what other people talk about when they reference these things, which is   it's interacting with you, you're sitting on the couch watching TV or lounging about and it's doing its thing over there. You know, you're on the phone or with a friend or something and it's  

[00:28:27] Juan Granados:

doing things. Ears drop of listening and those sorts of things. So that's that's the concept that I, I struggle with. Yeah, I guess from labeling back, I mean, I've totally I can see robots, humanoid robots being in houses in three years easily. I mean, I'll I'll sign, like, there's,   I forget the name of the robot, but people already, like, one of the,   guys I listen to, which is, Peter Diamandis,   from Moonshots. He already   fact, he's already put his order in for a few of them to come to his place.   Now, obviously, it's very limited, the amount that they're getting, but   the creator of that company   in terms of the demand that they're seeing is, like, astronomical in what they can even produce. And so they're hoping to just ramp it up as heavy as possible. So, yeah. Like, I see humanoid robots   so easily coming into play in a couple of years. It'll just be fairly cost. Had a lot of fucking demand as well. That's true. That's true. It'll just be the that amount. It'll be, I think, cost prohibitiveness.  

It'll be that's a good query about, you know, where they, like, chill. Like, where do they relax, I guess.   Yeah. Are they always gonna be, like, in the corner, almost like a,   night night of, like, in shining armor style? Like, you know, you might have, like, in the olden days. You just have, like, lots of like knights standing around and there's huge arms, it'll just be like that sort of thing. Yeah, that'd be pretty funny. I don't, yeah, I don't particularly know how that functions. I wanna worry about only if it's decked out in knight paraphernalia. Yeah, I don't know. It'll be very interesting. The world's gonna get  

[00:29:51] Kyrin Down:

really weird real quick, I think. I think it's gonna sneak up on us Yeah. As much as possible. We'll see. We'll see if we we treat them like humans or we treat them like robots or we treat them differently.   Yeah. It'll be it'll be interesting to see. For sure. Sure. So thank you very much. For those who want a question, a comment to reach out to us. Boostagrams   are the way that we appreciate you doing that. So going into somewhere like Fountain, Podcast Guru, Trufans,   Castomatic,   Curacaster,   Podverse. All good ways. All good ways of doing that. More information at meremortalspodcasts.com/support.   So let's jump into the next one. You mentioned Tim Ferriss and this is the interactivity   portion. So this is   okay. You've got a world building creation.  

Probably the hard stuff is more   your you as the viewer watch it or consume it, but you have no participation.   I can't really join in any of the Lord of the Rings.   And if I want to do anything   related to that,   I'll have to play, you know, make believe outside with my friends.   And you know, I'm fucking Gandalf. Now I'm Gandalf, blah, blah.   But you don't have any interaction with   the core aspect of it, you can't you can't influence things.   And on the opposite side of of things, you can have   stuff like I believe there's a   more interactivity now with movies, for example, where,   say you want to be part of a movie franchise,   you pay a million bucks, and you can be like an extra in the movie, for example. So this is where it's like you're helping to fund,   perhaps the world building exercise and things like this. And you get to participate in some shape or form. Now perhaps, you know, just being an extra isn't a big deal. If you're in a horror movie, and you're just like white guy number three that gets killed off immediately. Yeah. But if you're, you know, more of a part of the of the story or maybe like an adjacent to one of the characters and it's like, okay, cool. And if you think of things like,   I'm   blanking on the name of the band, but there was basically,   like I think it was a metal band,   became very popular, something like Megadeth, for example.  

And   there was a cover band   that was created many cover bands. And one of them was the dude got so fucking good that when the lead singer retired or passed away from the original cover band into the main band, yeah, he became   he went from side lore,   like not part of it into the actual lore of the band now. And like, maybe there's a bit of a stretch because it's a band and that wasn't   hugely world building. But, you know, like I said, with guerrillas, there is an aspect to these sorts of things. So   when you mentioned Tim Ferriss,   I was like, Oh, okay. Well, this is one where I see the   you can see the aspects of the hard versus soft or what I would call like interactive   aspect of   your   perhaps gaining more exposure,   you're getting a quicker   reach to a market of people if you allow interactivity   because we're humans, we like to dabble with things. Well, some people some people just like to consume. I'm more a consumer myself.  

But there's some downsides to doing that as well. So   for example, with you were the one who created Vellata, right? You're the one who made me this is the guy. It's me legends of a lot of that gets used.  

[00:33:31] Juan Granados:

I was a creator of that. And I have stated to Tim, feel free to  

[00:33:36] Kyrin Down:

run wild with that if you want. Yeah. And the you know, there's an aspect to this where let's say, you know, Tim Ferriss gets more into it,   creates it, and then it starts kicking off and it's like, oh, wow, this is amazing. You know, lots of people   diving into this and stuff. And,   perhaps then,   you know, people dig far enough, they're like, oh, one, he's the guy who created legends of the latter, the name like that's he's an important part of the law now.   And then you go on to be a serial killer,   pedophile rapist, whatever. And   that tarnishes the brand in some shape or form. And so you can see how,   not having full control over every aspect   can lead to   scenarios where it's like, oh, okay, well, like this guy has been shot into this, but   he now has a different view. So who   like which which is the correct one? What's what's the right,   you know, passage of interpretation or what's the right law in this case?  

And so I think the   there is a downside to the inter allowing things to be interactive because you're exposing yourself to   problems perhaps later down the line when it comes to   the creation and knowing like, what's real and what's not or, you know, all the associated things of reputation,   confusion,   as this guy says, it's this this guy says that, you know,   I can see it with, just myself.   Dave Jones, the pod sage.   Where did you get that nickname from?   I created it. And that was because,   Cridland, James Cridland was trying to call him the pod bro. I sent it in a boost gram message and I was like, I feel he's like more like a pod sage.   And then   Sam Sethi wrote,   took that and, you know, read that out loud. And then he fucking claimed it like two years later that he created   receipts. Fuck.  

I was the one who said that this time.   All of this goes to show like, you know, I care about that. He probably cares about it. And so   where where do you fall on this interactivity   Aspect of   is having an interactive   world, if you're world building and having interactive   nature with the audience, you think that's a good strategy? Is that a wise strategy? Is it a useful strategy? Yeah, I don't know. I was gonna say, though, just toying this in my mind,  

[00:36:07] Juan Granados:

the concept of world building and community building   and being slightly   different. And so   someone's creating, you know, if you're out there, you're trying to create a world,   I guess there might be a differentiation between you wanting to create the story or the concept of the world   versus the community that you might be wanting to build. And I'm gonna say for us from like a podcast perspective,   let's just say,   again, just stretching a little bit, but well building, even though there's no reality of there's no fiction that we're kind of talking about here, we are just like the mere mortals brand, or the world that we're trying and the concepts that we're trying to create. I would say that there is more   of a push towards a more community aspect to that that I would want to build, then it would be just me purely creating a world or a concept or ideas behind it. There's got to be some parts of community.  

Let's say an example of Legends of Valhalla, if   the alignment's more   community building or you're wanting to get community involved,   then sure you can introduce and have your own push towards world building, but you need to be aware or have the, like, you know,   part of community building means that there might, as you said,   escape tendrils and go down like multiple routes and that's just what happens or you pull it back, you almost kind of like crowdsource it and then pull it back to keeping it the canon, keeping it the main concept   to it. And then you've got the Lord of the Rings style where it's like, that's not community build, like the way that J. R. Tolkien was doing it. It was like, this is the world. This   is the idea. This is the world. This is what it is. And obviously, all of them bring goods and bats to it. I'm sure you could   start trying to create a world   building type of idea storyline. And then because you didn't community build it, then nobody cares and nobody picks it up. But again, you can go all the way the other stretch and you do it   community   derived and it just becomes like super problematic and it just goes all over the place and then it doesn't work out as well. There's  

[00:38:02] Kyrin Down:

the   amount of ebooks out there is staggering   is it's kind of like YouTube videos there's no   the amount published   exceeds any capacity of anyone to really have any chance of reading  

[00:38:17] Juan Granados:

all the books. Yeah.  

[00:38:19] Kyrin Down:

And a lot of them probably are like this where it's like some dude created a world and,   it's just shit. It's just it's just not good quality. It's perhaps   why is that? Perhaps it's just   too weird. Perhaps it's, too incoherent   all over the shop. I kind of think of things where it's like, you know, the,   I think it's called Boys Club, whereas the Pepe   character   was created from Green Frog. And then there's other ones like Brett and just like this blue   dog type thing. I don't know where it is.   You know, that kind of escapes   reached like an escape velocity.  

Even   one punch man, for example, like the   initial comic   was very poorly drawn,   but it had   a new unique concept which was enough for it to kind of break free. And it's like to do the same thing. Yeah, it got turned into,   you know, a redrawn manga, which was   really nicely polished and things like this. And then, you know, eventually,   the actual anime and stuff like that.   If you think of community building,   look at something like,   Minecraft,   I think is a good example where   it's literal worlds creations. There is so much you can do in that Roblox, another good example,   but there's   no story to it. Maybe now   that there's a movie out that you could say, oh, there's like a. Some sort of storyline. Yeah. Storyline or something like that. But that they went all in on the interactivity and then there is no world building, so to speak, on that.  

I kind of mentioned goosebumps before, which is similar. It's like choose your own story.   So   every   possibility scenario. I like this one better. So this is, you know, when I think of goosebumps and I was there was I remember there was one which was, you're in a hospital and you're   so vague, but, you know, you're in a hospital and there's all these decisions you can make. It's like you go on the left or the right or you do you try and fight the ghost or do you run away? And   as you go through the books, you flip to page 32, you go back, it's like, oh, you died. Oh, crap. Not again.   There could be no world building in that because it was too interactive. So yeah, I think you're right where it's like you can go both ways. But if you think of like   the truly iconic ones, I think that they're more like a person who has a tight grasp on it and it's just like, you don't get to fuck with this thing. Yeah. This is what it is. Yeah. And then when   people do   and   it gets too many other inputs, it starts to dissipate.  

Take Star Wars. The first three was like iconic. Everyone loves them. Then,   you know, he creates the   the prequels   and,   you know, becomes shit. Everyone hates it fucking Jar Jar Binks like what the fuck is this character who thought that was a good idea?   George Lucas sells the rights on then they create all of this other stuff and then people bitch and moan about that and look every it's still successful. And it's probably   maybe there's some kids now who see those things and they're like, Star Wars is the best thing ever.   But I think you can probably say that the Star Wars brand or world is a bit more confusing now.  



[00:41:38] Juan Granados:

Yeah, used to be. But again, and that's just the breadth of how much they exist of it, right? Like it's gonna have some confusion.  

[00:41:45] Kyrin Down:

And I think and the more you go out into different genres with the video games or with the podcasts or the   books,   then it's gonna happen anyway. So you're gonna,   there's this tension between   expanding more. And then also,  

[00:42:02] Juan Granados:

I think there's a little bit condensed into a it depends on the time that you kind of enter in the journey of whatever world is being built. Because let's take an example of you were reading   the Harry Potter books when they were first originally coming out, and then what didn't exist, everything else that started being spawned from it. Which I was. Yep. I remember that. I remember,   I can even remember. It was Order of the Phoenix. It was a Christmas time, I believe, that I got that book. Maybe I was around that time, and I read it in two days.   It was bad. That was like 500 page book around that in two days. I don't remember reading it at the time and being like, Oh, I get this story. I'm writing it. If   you know, now that more things have come out, there's a lot of unofficial and newer   movies and the like. I kind of go, I'm not going to read that. That's all the official stuff. That's whatever. And they have the more official stuff that has come since. But to me, the story was that beginning story that I read at the beginning. If you were, let's say when my daughter grows up and she wants to read Harry Potter,   there's Harry Potter and there's everything else that comes along from it. To her, the world would look like that. That's the the world that was built and there's all these other contexts, which is a little bit softer. There's more,   extensions to it all. But to me to me, it doesn't feel like that. Like, it's alright. It's just a cool story. That's it. Everything else is just flat additions. So it also depends   when you come into the world building aspect of of it as well. Right? I'm not gonna there's definitely zero advice I'm gonna give anyone here listening to this podcast about, you know, should you do it, like, soft interactive or should you do it, like, really hard? I guess it kind of depends on how you wanna grow a story. I'm gonna ask you my next question is how would we do it if we were gonna create a world building? So okay. Okay. We'll we'll we'll we'll,   we'll explore that for our own people. Will the advice coming? Yeah. Yeah. Well well, we'll do it from our own perspective. But, you know, if if you're asking if someone asked me like, oh, you know, would it be better this way or would it be better that way? It'd be like such a   personal concept. I don't think it could really   apply that externally to especially if if someone's got an idea and they go, you know, should I be all the way like Lord of the Rings or should I be like really soft and,   yeah, soft world building in that way? I'd be like,   they both can work. I think both can work. It just depending on how good the concept is and how,   I can't I don't know, well tidy because I was gonna say what what makes a really good world build?  

Like, there's there's been so many things that are successful in all different areas. What you enjoy doing, but, yeah, keep keep keep talking. I'm telling you.   Yeah. I I I just think, like, loads of things can be successful,   depending on on which spectrum it is that you get and depending on the time depending on the community that you may hit that actually wants to consume that sort of stuff.  

[00:44:37] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, very different. Yeah. There's also the kind of  

[00:44:42] Juan Granados:

how  

[00:44:42] Kyrin Down:

how do you how tight a grass can you really keep on it because like Harry Potter,   There are so many Harry Potter fanfics out there of   romantic   writers going,   I'm going to write a love story between Harry and Luna Lovegood.   And they've write this whole big story and then other people consume it. So like, oh my god, like, what what would have happened if Harry had gotten with Luna Lovegood? Like, how would things have been different? Yeah. Well, the the aspect that I it makes me interested when I was thinking about world building was  

[00:45:15] Juan Granados:

for the longest of time since story was   a thing. So let's take it back thousands and ten thousands of years, right? Stories was passed along by storytelling verbally, right? Someone would be around the campfire and telling stories and wow, that's that's an awesome story to tell. And obviously you've got it in books, then we've got it in in video formats and in differing other ways that you can consume it. Okay. Fantastic. But   for what has existed, it's still been   somewhat of a barrier to create more of that world if you're not the well, even the original creator   might take you it it takes effort to create the next bit of the storyline. Right? Let's try and get it out of your own brain.  

What   happens and what's gonna be really interesting is we're gonna just quickly hit this trajectory   where   anybody can extend the storyline or the world building using   new technology. What that looks like in any format,   you think about it, but you can't.   What happens when every individual out there could just extend the world building based on the core foundations that have been been from it, build from existing things,   and then just runs off with it. And like you're saying, yes, you can   maybe for the longest time, people can   or have had the ability to have a bit of a tight grip on other things that get created. We'll hit a point when you can't. It's just everyone's creating absolutely everything that they want into into all the variations.  

Again, obviously, there's gonna be differing between what's the official and what's everything else and everyone's creating. But I think when it becomes so easy to create,   again, what the timeline of this is, I'm not sure. But let's just take Star Wars, if someone goes, I'm just gonna redo the entire first Star Wars movie to maybe what they think should have been the actual world to do it. But then you have 1,000 people or 1,000 studios being able to do that with new technology. And and all of a sudden it's spanned all these different ways. There's just no way to control that. And then I wonder if it becomes almost like   that's all not part of the new world building in that you can have this world of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings,   where people are creating such volumes   of the story.  

And it's almost still within the same universe. It's just like differing   path that it could have possibly taken or just different views to it. I'm not sure. But it'll be interesting how world building   develops when content becomes so explosively easy to create. I think unlikely because the  

[00:47:33] Kyrin Down:

same could have been said now for   the what I just mentioned before the Harry Potter books and then the fanfics.   They could publish ebooks just as easily as J. K. Rowling's   e book of of Harry Potter.   They could even physically like it's sure it's expensive, but it's not that expensive to   publish, you know, 5,000 books of your   your your fan fiction. Yep.  

[00:47:59] Juan Granados:

Why  

[00:48:01] Kyrin Down:

when people think of Harry Potter, do they not think of the Harry Potter Luna Lovegood   side saga of some random person's creation.   It's all the other things related related to like J. K. Rowling wrote it. This is like the official media outlet of how you can get it and things like that. So I think there's still going to be gatekeepers   of sorts of   now how how they actually come about what they look like perhaps the AI algorithms that dictate like this is where humans are directing most of their their attention to.   Perhaps it's,   you know, you can have this flooding of   a ridiculous amount of Star Wars   films with, you know, perhaps there's a slight edit and someone's just been like,   I don't like Jar Jar Binks. Get rid of him and replace him with some other guy. Yeah,   everything else looks exactly the same. Apart from that one thing,   I think there's still going to be this way you can probably go into like blockchain and like this is the ultimate provenance. This is where I came from. This is the ultimate source of truth, that sort of thing   that I feel like will there will be a way to sort out   who   who created what and   if someone really wants to say like, this is my fucking thing and this is the only   canonical version, I think there'll be ways of doing doing that. I don't I don't  

[00:49:21] Juan Granados:

I don't For sure. There'll be ways to build it up for sure. For sure. But I want that I don't know if   ten years from now,   the default position for just people who are consuming   stories or the world building that's around them, if they'll go,   Oh, I still really just care about like that main core creator,   or if it'll be a case of   people start splitting out their viewership or the way they care to just go, Oh, yeah, I like,   yes, I like the Star Wars idea in the story, but I like it being told by this particular creator who's doing it in this different way. And I'm just going to consume it that way.  

[00:49:55] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's questions about IP and  

[00:49:59] Juan Granados:

yeah, whether you can do that. Yeah. Yeah. What how? Yeah, that  

[00:50:04] Kyrin Down:

I'm more of the   the lines that if it's uncontrollable and unstoppable, you just have to lean into it and you know, you'll find. Yeah, you're going to just find pain if you try to try to control the controllable. Okay, so the last question, how would we do it? So   if you were going to try and create a world, how would you   do it? And, you know, there's no constraints on   it's just have to you just have to have someone say in twenty years time. Yeah, okay. That was the world. That's the lore of   x that one created.   So here's how I would do it. So   I would definitely outsource   any and all parts requiring   good storytelling.  

So,   you know, creating tension, pacing, the hero's journey,   etcetera. They're not things I'm interested in. I'm not   I would have to try and learn how to create those things, and I just don't think I'm naturally good at them. So that's all stuff that I'd be putting on to   other people in   my creation process. What are the things that I would find interesting and that I do better at?   It would be the interlinking   philosophies,   spins on reality,   perhaps the physics of the new world or of the universe that I'm creating,   the engineering and structure of it all is probably things that I'd find more fun and interesting for myself to create. So think of, you know, the meme of Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia where he's got the the wall and he's like, oh, conspiracy. Yes. Yep. And it's got the fucking red string and all of the things. That's that's the kind of thing that I feel like I'd be   more interested in, have fun doing and perhaps   be better at than, than some other people. Not sure about, not sure about it. So,   for example, I've been using this,   playing around with this layer two called Shape,   which is an Ethereum layer two. And there's   a I guess you'd call it a game on this. Not necessarily a game, but it's this dude's essentially created   periodic tables where every kind of element   and isotope is an NFT and   like they're all   everything's just costing like 0.1¢.  

So I'm just creating bulks of these things playing around moving and creating different molecules and stuff. And the level of detail this dude has put into it is bananas.   Just   you just go this. I don't see how this could have taken any less than a year's worth of just pure dedication   on this dude's part to grant us. That's the kind of thing where I'm like, okay, I feel like I could perhaps have a chance of doing something like   that. Suspense and mystery is something I've always gravitated gravitated towards. So   is a little fun fact about myself. So   if I   fantasy number three sixty   three of of Kyren. Yeah. If I was ever a deejay,   I would call myself Scarface   McGraw.  

Scarface McGraw. Okay. That's a little flashback to the Harry Maclary. Yeah. Series, if you have ever seen that. And I'd probably do like a Daft Punk   style anonymity play. I'd try and make it mysterious.   You know, I probably   wouldn't do live shows or if I did live shows, I'd hire someone to   DJ for me. And it's essentially just playing my tracks and probably make that known to the audience that it's a person out there acting as me   and then do stuff interactively on the Internet and try and kind of maintain this anonymity whilst also like building   suspense and intrigue. Like, okay, there's really great music, but who's behind it? Like, why did he create this? Because people love deconstructing the lyrics   and the meaning behind songs and stuff like that. So,   you know, I would probably   do things with, you know, layered versions of,   I don't know, Easter eggs.  

You dive back into the lyrics. And if you took like the anagram of the   the first letter of each song or the first letter of each sentence and then jumbled them up and put them into a thing, it could. Gives you something else. Yeah. New story.   That's, that's the things I do. If I was to be successful,   I'd probably start with something like text,   like a text based   show   creation   and then move into other genres.   If it was something I wanted to have fun with, it'd probably be like a video type thing. And so I'd probably   spend more time with like AI and trying to create   my own video world of telling my   story or whatever, some something like that. So that's how I would go about doing it. Okay. Okay.  

What about you?   Because we could do you know,   there is some mere mortals law in some aspects where it's like the Chuck's cloth beanie when was the first appearance of that?  

[00:55:03] Juan Granados:

True.  

[00:55:04] Kyrin Down:

If you go back into there's some jokes and some   things that I like to go back to every now and then. And, you know, there's things that we've forgotten that we said once and that we've probably repeated or had conflicting views.   I think   that'd probably   be a way   of jumbling up all of our thoughts and things and creating a world out of it. Perhaps it's like, you know,   Jiren and Quan   and   we set them off in this world and like there's these two, two people and we cut out some of the stuff that we've said in the past, but there's other things and so like, you know, there is okay, the list of all the fantasy shit that I've talked about in the past, you know, three sixty two of them or however many there is.   And   that's like part of,   Jiren's lore  

[00:55:54] Juan Granados:

or. The council. Yeah. So  

[00:55:56] Kyrin Down:

I think that would be a way of using everything that we have here to create some sort of world. For sure. Not  

[00:56:02] Juan Granados:

but it needs that fictional element as well, I'd say. So. Yeah, I was going to say it's going to be disassociated with. Yeah, it needs to be the fictional aspect. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it would see the   maybe the anti climatic answer that I was going to give is I just I wouldn't there is no world building that I don't think I would wanna create at all. And so this is kind of the   thing I was thinking about from like, so from us from the podcast was like, different. It was good that we talked about the fiction versus nonfiction aspect of it in that I   I couldn't see you could borrow ideas or concepts of a world building on the fictional sense to build out a community   aspect of things, but they're different things. So the question of, you know,   how would I or what would I do from a world building perspective to in realistically, it has to be fiction, it has to be created from me. The answer is like, either I'm not created enough, or I just wouldn't care at all to even begin creating anything   fictional per se. I do if I'm if I think back   where I have   participated, like become interactive,   there have been a few book series that had that kind of idea where they had, you know, runes that I had to translate to try to make it into something and I I enjoyed that.  

Or Legends of Alata where I've created a story or two off the back of the very minimal things that have been created. Mhmm. Would I say that I enjoyed that yet? There was there was joy to it, but doesn't hit the threshold where I'd be like, oh, there'd be any world building that I would want to create off my own back. I think I'm more enjoy the participation   where it's available or consumption than it is any any creation. So like even that concept of you know   getting all the things that we've created in the podcast or from others and being like oh yeah generating that into some sort of like fictional world building   zero interest. They're like there is no interest. The aspect of community building a podcast I could see   building concept of world building, I guess, successes and ideas   to do that in the community space.  



[00:57:58] Kyrin Down:

Absolutely. I could see that. But from a fictional world building, I think the answer is no. One, one's basically never be doing it. One's world building would be to, you know, Legends of Elada becomes popular and then one just goes to an event and he's like, and then there's a horror movie that comes out and one's in the back.   And then so one just appears and,  

[00:58:18] Juan Granados:

you know, all of these other stories and it's like the ultimate world building is one. And, you know, he is he is the creator of all of all of those things. Yeah. I just I don't know. I've never and I think that also comes down to to me. Like, I've never been a person who   really follows a particular,   like, brand or, like, world. There's just so distinctly that I'm like, oh, really  

[00:58:38] Kyrin Down:

an aficionado for it or a fan? Neither of us have journals filled with,   the fantasy world that we've created or, you know, my talked about this before.   I don't visualize I close my eyes and I don't visualize things   coherently. That's   that's why I wouldn't   say that I'm a good storyteller in certain aspects where it's like I can't envision   this future like this other world with this physics and like if there's a character in there,   this is why I kind of kind of understand like perhaps how,   Tolkien created this world and then the characters appeared   because,   June,   the creator of that, Frank Herbert, I think was his name.  

He   was kind of I think he was like microbiologist   slash   he was really interested in   environments. And so he was going out to desert and, you know, he was probably imagining like, okay, what would there be like in a world where there is   such little water, and it water becomes this valuable resource, like how, what would the world look like? And if animals would exist in this, how would the people and you know, yeah, it was very much like a direct world building scenario. Yeah, then a story popped   understand things like that. And that's probably how you   sort of want to do it. And well, that this is where advice goes like, you know, you hear people are like, Yeah, I there's that and this this character I added on to him and I built it out and I knew what he was going to do on from day dot. And then there's others who it's like, I write and  

[01:00:15] Juan Granados:

the character surprises me, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah. And then here, like, we've given a lot of, like, fantasy experience, fantasy examples for world building, but there's loads of world building that are not fantasy related, still kind of attached to real life and think   if you shake the gray, right, like that, I guess, is very closely related to real life. It's not fantasy or anything. And people absolutely loved that particular storyline and the world building that came around that.   Yeah. I was looking at it, maybe the world building's not not very deep, not very deep. The depth of the world building there is not good, but, you know, there's a What does that look? Trapped in this Christian Grey.   Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the the   the enigmatic thing is that at least for me, I'd go world building. World building's not for me. Yeah. World building is definitely not for me. But Agree. I can appreciate a a good world building. And I think there's a lot of   interesting concepts to world building, whether it's, you know, that hard to soft ability to your own storytelling or the ability of creating communities or something else that can be applicable. But   me as a me model, I'm a I'm a consumer. I'm a consumer. So, you know, when it starts getting into the tech where people are creating all these other   variations of things from the worlds, I'll be the one being like, that's cool. I'll I'll really, you know, enjoy doing that. But by myself creating it, not not not really. Agreed. Yeah. I prefer more to participate in lurk than to  

[01:01:33] Kyrin Down:

actively be in the weeds. Follow-up. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Cool. All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining in. This is. If you have any comment at all.   Yeah, I see a couple of see Lucas, Bryko. Yo boy, you are magnificent, bruh. Thank you, Lucas. You sent me a big long message. I'll listen to that soon.   And we did have Joey Seth comedy and Patricia in the chat as well. So really appreciate everyone joining in live as well   as Late Bloomer actor for participating, sending in a boost program. Absolutely.   Many different ways you could participate. We'd love to hear about your world building. How would you go about world building? Or if you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Your exercises.  

We sometimes see some people popping in in our Discord who are trying to create sketches and   things like that. So, you know, there's,   certainly people out there attempting these types of things and the marketing of world building is very different than the actual creation of it as well. So   that's the the tricky stuff. You can create a good a good story perhaps, but if you're not good at getting it out, then there's like no point to it. Yeah.  

[01:02:34] Juan Granados:

Don't I was going to say   don't ever use me as like a guiding   individual or anything to see if like I never the world building is right   or is right market because I I like very,   very seldom will care about any level of world building. Even   even the things that I really, really, really enjoy, like the ones that have captured me, I still would be like I still don't care. Like you this could never exist again, never get credit and I would care so little. Whereas, you know, you've got people out there who like battle it out about the Star Wars differentiations   or oh, no. You got this particular thing wrong. I just like, there's simply zero k on my side when it comes to any of the worlds that have been built out there. If you ever appear in a focus group for  

[01:03:18] Kyrin Down:

a product on a TV, I'm shorting that company to fucking hell. Yeah. If they ever take any owner of your advice No.  

[01:03:26] Juan Granados:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No  

[01:03:35] Kyrin Down:

my opinion on many,  

[01:03:38] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Don't don't listen to our opinion about other things in life, but certainly,   world building or, you know, content that's gonna be enjoyed by other humans in the more fictional realm or whatnot. Yeah. What what do other people look like or what what would I do versus what other people do is, you know, I don't I don't think we're the mass market that you should be appealing to. Absolutely. So feel free to come test us in the discord if you wanna get non mass market,  

[01:04:03] Kyrin Down:

you know, feedback for product or anything else. So yeah, that's good. Good point. Come join us in Discord link to stand below.   I love hearing your comment feedbacks, things like this.   Value for value podcasts, as mentioned, go to newmodelspodcast.com/support   and send some money to us via PayPal or any of the other. Other forms you can do that. Forms you can do that. A little hint here for next week.   I am the most hairless I've ever been,   ever been in my life. This is the  

[01:04:33] Juan Granados:

cleanest. Ultra hairless.  

[01:04:34] Kyrin Down:

Cleanest.   Because I have shaved. I'm shaved at the moment in   many places.   And every every place is basically the last time I did this, I had hair on my head. So this is how long this is how hairless I am right at this moment. And there's a reason for that, but you're gonna have to stay tuned to the next week to find out why. There you go. Why I'm so Why is he hairless? Find out soon. Cool. Meanwhile, let's leave it there. Appreciate it. Thank you for being live for those who can join us. For those who haven't, again, 9AM usually.  

[01:05:03] Juan Granados:

Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Sunday. For now, we'll leave it there in more lights. One out. Car now. Good.   Ellis. Good.