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Is work being equated to jobs undergoing a separation?
In Episode #478 of 'Musings' Juan and I discuss: the fundamental definition from a physics perspective, why my handstand training is more about persistence, how external validation can differ from internal satisfaction, future implications of an age of abundance where hard work may become less necessary due to technological advancements, why I value technique and Juan will teach his child how to grind.
Huge thanks to Petar for the support, it means the world to us!
Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:03) Defining Hard Work
(00:03:53) Subjectivity of Hard Work
(00:10:34) Hard Work in Everyday Life
(00:14:53) Hyrox Event & Observations
(00:22:26) Technique vs Hard Work
(00:28:37) Effort & Recognition
(00:30:44) Boostagram Lounge
(00:39:58) Hard Work In Jobs/Society
(00:47:03) Recognition Paradox
(00:54:02) Future Of Hard Work In An Age Of Abundance
(01:02:00) Internal vs External Value
(01:16:25) V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
In Episode #478 of 'Musings' Juan and I discuss: the fundamental definition from a physics perspective, why my handstand training is more about persistence, how external validation can differ from internal satisfaction, future implications of an age of abundance where hard work may become less necessary due to technological advancements, why I value technique and Juan will teach his child how to grind.
Huge thanks to Petar for the support, it means the world to us!
Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:03) Defining Hard Work
(00:03:53) Subjectivity of Hard Work
(00:10:34) Hard Work in Everyday Life
(00:14:53) Hyrox Event & Observations
(00:22:26) Technique vs Hard Work
(00:28:37) Effort & Recognition
(00:30:44) Boostagram Lounge
(00:39:58) Hard Work In Jobs/Society
(00:47:03) Recognition Paradox
(00:54:02) Future Of Hard Work In An Age Of Abundance
(01:02:00) Internal vs External Value
(01:16:25) V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
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[00:00:07]
Juan Granados:
Welcome back Mere Mortalites. It is 09:14 in the morning. It is the March 2. You got Juan here. And Kyrinhere. We've got musings on today. For the podcast. We go live at 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on Sunday, so a little bit late at the moment. One key call out, again, I was saying that I'm gonna do this. 78% of you, roughly, who are listening to this are not subscribed. Do so. Do so. It does help us out a lot, especially from a value for value perspective, helps us give you some value to more broader individuals and in turn, perhaps we get some value as well. We'll talk about it throughout the podcast in the middle and the end as well to just remind you of that. But now going into it and yes, mom, you are correct. If you've got a message, it is current birthday today. Oh, yeah. He is 33 years old. Say happy birthday. Please send him through some, SATS. '33. I'll prove it '33.
I appreciate it. 33,000,000 SATS would be nice, but you know, Vegas can't be choosers. This is correct. But today I want to talk about hard work. So, you know, Karen asked me this question, what do we talk about for the next episode? This was bubbling in somewhere in me. It wasn't like a hard press thing that I wanted to talk about but then the more I started, using my little friend ChachiPT and asking it some questions but also just generally thinking about this. I'm like, you know what? We could probably get into a good fun conversation about this. I'm gonna define it though. I'm gonna define it in supremely basic first principle physics, right? Hard work. Work is basically energy you're spending to move something with weight a certain distance. So, if you want to talk about work in joules, it's just purely like energy being used for something. So, at the absolute fundamental what the hell is work and maybe what hard work is versus soft work or low work, I would just say descriptively if you were to say someone how you're doing hard work, you're kind of just saying hey you're putting a lot of energy towards something. Isn't it energy over time?
Which equations? I didn't like to look at the actual equation for it, but no no, if you want to get technical, work is force exerted over distance. Work is force exerted over distance. Yeah. Okay. So it's kind of looking up the equation. Yeah. But work is force exerted over distance. But basically like if you're saying to someone like it's just how much energy are you putting towards something, right? And if you're saying hard work I guess you sort of decided it's hardening. When you say over distance you mean times like work equals force times displacement. Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay. So yeah this is basically saying to someone if you want to define it that way, hey you're putting a lot of energy towards something and moving it towards a certain location. So there is no it that is the human substance that then defines over the top of that whereas you term something to be a good hard work or a maybe intolerable what a waste of time at work description or work in general so I wanted to find I was also thinking work equals power
[00:03:04] Kyrin Down:
times time
[00:03:06] Juan Granados:
power times time that's the one I was thinking of okay so yeah I knew there was something to do with time So in any case, it's sort of like, if you want to define it this way, it's purely, you know, take away the human bias. If you look at a monkey or something like that and if you say, Hey, they're doing hard work. Yeah, they're probably running towards something. Doesn't know what they're doing. And if they're maybe just walking, maybe the hard work effort is less, right? Less power over time. So, the final way, we just, you know, when we get into this conversation, there's all human layers thrown into it because by definition, you could probably get into some reasoning as to like, Yeah, you can't really decide that, Hey, current handstands are not hard work, but working on a business, that's hard work. If you go fundamentally, no, that's bullshit. Like there is no differentiation here. It is very, it is just a subjective human bias that you're overloading with that. So I want to set that absolutely at the forefront. Yeah. My first question to you actually before anything else was, have you had anyone in your time say to you that either high incense or stretching, is not hard work or is a waste of time? Probably you. Probably me. Probably me. Yeah. Have you had any other people say this? Nah, no way. I don't think so.
Nah. Nah. Do you think subjectively anyone would say it's a waste of energy is probably better off than doing something else with the same amount of work? No.
[00:04:23] Kyrin Down:
Never had that.
[00:04:25] Juan Granados:
Never had that at all. No, no, actually,
[00:04:28] Kyrin Down:
the people that I've talked to, probably the biggest critic I've had would be my dad who doesn't see the point in it. But I don't think he that he'd argue that I'm not working hard at it. But in terms of the point of doing it, he doesn't see that. But no, I don't I don't think I've had anyone ever question whether I'm working hard at it. Yeah. Okay.
[00:04:53] Juan Granados:
Yeah. So they conversely how sorry, that was the other one. You rank your training sessions from 110. Basically ranking. Yeah. How do you then define you yourself whether you've given enough or actually worked hard in a training session?
[00:05:11] Kyrin Down:
So just for those, they're very similar to my book reviews and how I rank them. So like, it's a very shifted bell curve, centering around seven out of 10 is the like a normal. I do you look, I don't actually do it based on hard work. I feel like I come in every session pretty consistently and will just do the best I can with that. So if you come into handstands and you're trying to push harder, you're trying to balance harder, that's not going to work like that. That's the wrong mentality to have coming in. It should be more about, you know, what, what can I try and do in this next set? Or I actually don't even think it's worthwhile thinking about the next set.
More just what can I do today and not hurt myself almost in essence? Yeah. And just just do the reps is essentially it. And some reps look, here's an experience I had the other day. I had a session which I came in, I felt pretty good. I prepped really well, you know, like stretched, warmed up, everything was really good. Start off the session and probably the first like forty minutes was okay. Like, alright, I'm getting some balances, like shoulders feel good. I'm not in pain. This is okay. And then just the longer it went, the more frustrated I got. And the like, I could see that this essence of balance was just not there on the stage.
And no matter how hard I pushed, no matter, like, how tight I pulled my legs down and put it in this certain position, I was not finding this essence of like the balance, I guess what you call it. And if it had been any worse of a session, I would have laughed. Like it would have been laughable how bad it was, But because it was just still a little bit better than laughable, it was actually extremely frustrating. Now, what can I take out of that? You know, could I have worked harder? No. And it was almost like, it would have been better. Probably, if I'd just been like, Okay, this session is a bit of a write off.
I'm actually just getting frustrated now, like, is this helping me, there's actually just ruining my rude mood for the next of the day, The rest of the day. Maybe I should just go and do the weights that I do afterwards, which is just mindless, like pushing, pushing stuff. And that is certainly where I can feel like I can work harder. There's times where you've got like, very lightweight still of dumbbell chest press or whatever. And I go down, you know, pushing up and I get to like seventh rep, I can feel it's like a little bit wobbly. There's certainly something where I know, okay, I could if especially if I had a spotter, I could probably get out another three reps, even though it feels like men that last one was like almost all I had. I don't know if I've got any left to me.
So for the, I think handstand training is just too different like I don't think the concept of hard work applies to it too much. Oh, okay, okay. Do you think most, do you think the like the top level handstanders would agree with that? That
[00:08:38] Juan Granados:
they'd go like, oh, yeah, yeah, hard work doesn't really apply to they
[00:08:43] Kyrin Down:
some of them some of them so for example, there's this guy I think it's that Yuval Or the there's some guys who, for example, will try and do I think it was like four by 10. And it was I'm going to do 10 reps of stall to press. And then I'll do 10 handstand push ups, and then I'll do 10 normal straddle presses, and then I'll do 10 of like another press type move. And that takes, you know, I don't know how long that takes them, like ten minutes plus probably to do all that. Maybe, maybe eight minutes, whatever. And that one is certainly one where he's not worrying about balance too much. And so for him, it is like me and my muscles are on fire, like they're burning. I come down and I'm pushing back up and it's more like, I don't know if I can push this last bit. Okay. For him and for people doing one arm presses and shit, they're probably at a different level where they've gotten back into they've gone beyond like the the, the what I'm training now, which is more than like the mind and the minute little balances. And they're now all the way back into like, muscle, like, I need to make my muscles bigger, stronger, to be able to fucking push harder. Stephanie Miller, another great example. She was doing trying to do a world record of I think it was like 400 plus stall depresses or something.
For her that was certainly about hard work and not about the balance and the minutiae of of trying to find that little, little thing. So yeah, and if I was doing more something like a really long trying to go endurance handstands, That's probably where hard work is a bit more applicable and things like that.
[00:10:35] Juan Granados:
So then so then is it worth so then going more basic? Do you think it's worth beyond handstands just in everyday life? Focusing or caring about hard work. Is that even a concept that you care about to think about?
[00:10:50] Kyrin Down:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can apply for tons of things. Yeah. You don't chores if you're doing your normal job, your whatever it is that you're working on, I think there's tons of things that you can apply it to. Yeah. The I guess maybe a question back at you. What what is how does hard work differentiate from just work? What's what's the difference context to I think it's context. And so because one of the biggest things in thinking about this was
[00:11:21] Juan Granados:
hard work for someone is just shit or work for somebody else. Right. And it just it is very much contextual to what it is that they've defined and done because you know fundamentally I go I think hard work is very important but it isn't important in the sense of the direct short term gains although they're good but it is the long term context shifting that is very, very good. So I think the difference for me when you think about it, and that's why I was asking you if anyone had kind of said to you like, oh, well, you know, they see you doing six hours at the gym doing some handstand work and doing fitness and being like fuck.
Like yeah, you're putting in at work, but that's not hard work. Hard work would be if you were working on the mine or if you were doing something like What's the biggest hater that I've got? Like if you were doing like manual tools or whatnot, you know? But you could make reasonable conversations about like well you know the the desk worker white collar person doing an eight hour job or twelve hour day, that's hard work but how do you balance that with the hard work of working on the tools for ten hours? And I think that's a, that's actually a stupid question, that's an unformed question. I think the better question is, yeah, in the context of that particular individual, human, what does hard work look like and if they are under or over applying it to that particular regard? So you know if you were to ask me, you know, what do I define hard work? I think it or how it applies to like humans, the immortals, it would have to be like whatever you're capable of doing, are you exerting yourself to improve or at least do what you can do or are you mentally, physically, other aspects limiting it because you're just too weak of mind, too weak of body, something else and then in the context of how everything else is in terms of your sleep and your eating and all that sort of stuff that fundamentally makes big changes to that domain. So I think it can have a significant difference depending on the context. So, you know, as much as I may joke around that Kyren's handstand and stretching is a waste of time, you could also, it, kind of can go full circle in the, if you put a lot of hard work in running, you then have to do a lot of hard work and stretching. So you don't go real stiff, and you have really bad, you know, muscles and whatnot. So it's all a time and place as to what it is that you're optimizing for in like challenging yourself. Or Yeah, yeah, I think it
[00:13:44] Kyrin Down:
attaches very closely to willpower for me. So agree with the context. So for example, yesterday, I went to see our friend Mitchell from the previous episode. He was doing high rocks.
[00:13:55] Juan Granados:
Those who don't know high rocks is an event which is came out of nowhere. I have no idea why this thing is. I think it's like, I think it came out like six or seven years ago or something like that, but it became popularized like really, really recently. I heard about it three months ago. Yeah. And I knew about it like a long time before a lot of most people but it was purely because I listened to a strong barbell podcast or something but they always talk to Hunter McIntyre who's a guy who holds the world record or held the world record three times and a four time world champion. I remember listening to him like at the beginning of Hireup when he was just starting, I was just like who's this fucking superhuman, what the fuck are they doing? But I never tuned into any of it, but relatively recent and became really popular recently. Yep, so it's
[00:14:38] Kyrin Down:
exercise where you do a one kilometer run and then an exercise, then a one kilometer run, then another exercise. And you do that eight times. And the exercises are things like sled push and pull, burpees. Rows, gear, wall balls, kettlebell. Farm carry. Yeah. Farm carry. Yep. That sort
[00:14:56] Juan Granados:
of thing. Bag.
[00:14:57] Kyrin Down:
Takes between typically like an hour to two hours. I was actually looking up. I just typed in. I typed in into Google like, you know, what's what's a good time? I think I typed in what's a good High Rocks time? And it said a respectable High Rocks time is one hour thirty two minutes. And our friend mentioned it's not respectable. It's not hard work.
[00:15:19] Juan Granados:
So he didn't put in the hard work. He is disrespectful
[00:15:23] Kyrin Down:
towards Hirox. Shame on you. Definitely admirable. But watching him was was really interesting. And he honestly, he surprised me yesterday, because he grinded away. And he put in a lot of hard work that I hadn't seen in him before. I hadn't seen him doing this. I agree with this. And so that was really impressive. I was like, wow, you know, when he was fucking like dying in the burpee section, like he did do the jump, It come down and he just smack into the ground. Like he had no nothing left in his upper chest and body. And you could see him there like on the ground just fucking panting. And it's like, oh, shit, is he gonna give up right now?
He's in a lot of pain. He's not doing too well. But then yeah, sure enough, he'll push himself up and do it again. And so you get to see him like working hard. Now. Unfortunately, I didn't have the chance to like, judge other people in terms of their hard work, because, you know, I'm there to support him. I'm focusing on him. And it's just a very chaotic moving around a lot. You don't, as a spectator, you you're walking from station to station to watch your friend and support. And so you don't get to see like the people he started with and how he's comparing against them too much because there's so much running involved with so much other stuff. So I couldn't see that there's only a couple of things that I saw there was one thing I saw there there was a guy who was doing burpees at the same time Mitchell was and this guy would jump and then cheated in a couple steps forward. No, he hit as he jumped, he'd instead of placing his hands next to his feet, he placed them like a solid like meter away. And so he'd just be gaining a meter with every jump, because then he'd do the push up and then stand up to where his hands were, jump again. And so he's essentially just inch, like getting forward an extra half a meter a meter in this way, which isn't part of the rules.
Now, he got called up by the judge, one of the judges for this, but he'd already been doing it for like, two thirds of the course. So like, it had already gotten his max gains out. And this is getting where it's like getting towards technique, and, and things like this. So that guy, he broke the rules, the rules say you meant to put your hands next to your feet or something like that. So he was cheating in essence. And I would say he wasn't doing the hard work, he should have been doing all of the work, but he was he was missing a bunch of it. Technique is one of those ones where it's like, you can have better technique, which is meant to save you work.
So does that mean you're not working as hard if you've got better technique? Or is that and it's not cheating to have better technique to work on things and to, you know, I'm going to pull the sled in this manner, which will allow me to do it in a more energy efficient manner. But you're doing less hard work at the same time. So where's this like, balance in terms of technique turning into not doing work, not doing the thing properly? And this is where you'll see it in CrossFit a lot where they've just got like, the fucking dodgiest form on certain things. Is it more energy efficient? Or is this where it's turning into like them just fucking up? So I think this gets into the very
[00:18:42] Juan Granados:
specific differentiation of there is raw hard work by its its definition down to like mathematics physics aspect of it which is at its base the more work that you can do rep wise, the more you improve on that particular skill or item that you're doing so that it's literally the more reps you do it the better you get, the more you habitualize to that particular setup. That is a different optimization than optimizing for the most efficient, effective, fast time that you can do in a hierarchy, something similar, different because you do have those aspects of of course you have to have hard work and effort to get to it but then it is influenced as you say if you're doing a slip pull and let's just say by just by numbers it takes a hundred jewels if you were to do it really hard work effort like just slug it but if you do a specific technique and it takes you 92 jewels of effort, but still do the same then you go and do that particular one. So I guess you're not optimizing for the like the amount of hard work you're doing for the hard work's sake but you're doing, you're achieving what you need to do, doing less hard work but you're achieving the other outcome that comes behind it. Which is, I guess that that's a very, very different definition of hard work that people need to understand that there is the fundamental doing it for the pure like reps, jewels, energy, wattage that you take on and then the optimization for something else a skill and mobility and anything else.
Because the way that I was going to define it for me is there's certain things the way that I live my life that I do which very easily could people could view from the outside and go like oh Juan works hard. And that I could only define that too. If you define it by I wake up really early, I'm always doing things energetically like pushing towards something. There's not a lot of time where I'm relaxed or not thinking about swimming, I'm pushing or moving around doing things. That is the repetitions I've done in like day in day out for years and years and years that maybe I now see it as, ah, it's kind of habitual that's just what I do. But again, if you're looking at it from externally and a different perspective, it's like holy shit, you don't understand my context, so you just think like holy fuck, he's doing hard work everything all day. For me, it's like, it doesn't feel like hard work, it's now just the habitual this is just what I do. Then if you focused in on skill set, specifically skill set or, doing some sort of demand that I'm trying to achieve, that one I would say, yes it's good to apply hard work but you you want to kind of be more optimal about it. You don't want to just be absolutely going raw dog as hard as you can on a task that may be better done with a bit more efficiency and effectiveness.
Again, case in point, one of the things in one of the businesses in terms of creating a document, I could go hard work and do it all myself and that's like the highest level of hard work output that I can or I can leverage tools to achieve the same outcome in a much reduced amount of work that is outputted by me, but I'm still getting to the same result. So there's aspects there that it's like it's smart to go do that unless your absolute max outcome is do as much work effort as you can possibly then there's different things. But I think there's a there's a clear differentiation in that. It's the same as saying, it's like something that we both don't do but I would just imagine sprinting. Like you're sprinting, there is the hard work that is just the pure like rips, the energy of running fast, of putting the effort to it and doing the kilometers. Mhmm. That's all hard work and you could easily define that under like the movement of energy and all that. But then the skill that's picked off it, you know, you could say the you know flexing your toe or doing your knee woggles or doing something else where it's like you're not working hard, let's just say specifically, but you are, improving something very specifically for maybe efficiency or effectiveness to that task. So kind of like it's but it kind of goes in both ways and it's you've got to clearly differentiate between what is hard work and what you define and what the context is and then what are the other things that you do auxiliary that might be you're doing more efficiently but it's actually okay like not everything has to be hard work all of the time.
Again, personally, do I want to exert the most hard work I can with my daughter when I'm with her? No, no way, like that's that's ridiculous. I would want to be present and gentle and slow, then I would want to be hard work at all because the, you you want to call it, the optimization or the thing that I want to get out from that isn't, hey we need to exert the most amount of force or the most amount of learning or the most amount of reading or the most amount of watching TV, nothing like that. It's more so around, it's the being present and the purely of being available That is the dominating factor there not amount of work,
[00:23:30] Kyrin Down:
like exerted for it. The person who won the hierarchs event yesterday, let's just say for the men's scene Hunter. Yep. That's who it was. Didn't follow. Did he put in the most hard work? You think? And this is one of those questions, which I think could be kind of like sneaky, because I don't think so. Yeah, I wouldn't. I don't think so. I wouldn't say that either. I would say, at least in the moment. So in that, you know, fifty two minute. And then this is funny, because you would say, Oh, he did it in what, fifty eight minutes something? Fifty five, I think. Fifty five. Good on you. That's amazing. He did probably the most work in terms of like power over time.
Like he or what was it force force over distance? You know, for some distance? Yeah, he he did the most like he did it the quickest. Therefore, he must have worked the most. Right. So by that technical definition, but if I'm applying it to this concept of willpower, which I didn't really link before, which was I think it's like that overcoming of the what would you call it the negativity, the thing in your own brain that's trying to stop you or your own body that's trying to stop you and say, like, No, don't do any more Like this is this is where you should rest or this is where you should just do more technique here or something like this. This is where I'm thinking like, no, it was probably the person who was grinding through the most.
And you know, I'm using like loose terms here. I'll put I'll put some numbers in a moment. Yeah, that that was the person who in that however long it took them to actually do it, you know, maybe it was the person who did it in one minute, one minute, one hour thirty eight minutes. But they, in that, you know, training and stuff like coming into it, they thought they'd probably only be capable of one minute fifty, one hour fifty, then that person like just fucking grind it and work so hard that they managed to actually do it quicker. It's kind of like, okay, their their willpower, they expended so much willpower that that was kind of how they got to it. Now, if you're asking me who worked the hardest over the long period, that's when it's like, okay, Hunter's probably got a really good chance of being the hardest worker in that time period over the last let's just take ten years.
Because to get to that very, very elite level, he would have had to have done so many reps, so much time and effort and energy put into it where it's like, okay, this guy did work really fucking hard. Correct. And, and, Ian, see, that's the super it's good in like competitions or sports because you see it so, clearly. But
[00:26:16] Juan Granados:
over the like fundamental again levels, Hunter probably was the yep, is that hard work in terms of power output and whatnot? Definitely, like you can mathematically get those numbers out. But if you then go down to the mere mortal level, it is pure context of what your baseline is I guess or what your expected is to your actual. So if Hunter's best because he holds or held the World Record I think a couple of times, if it was, you know, generally fifty three-fifty five minutes and if he came in there within an hour and five minutes and let's just say it wasn't because of sickness or other things it was just mentally or physically he just didn't show up, then you could make a pretty good player to be like, Hey, you know what? He didn't work hard.
He could have been putting lots of effort and he is substantially better than just about everyone who was there. But for the context of him, it wasn't hard work. It was a slightly underachievement to what he's done previously. Whereas Alfred Mitchell, right, he maybe if he'd come in there and be like, you know, I've done some of the numbers, I've trained like fairly hard, I think I'm gonna get two hours and then pulled out the hour and forty three minutes that he did, then the delta between expectation and reality and the difference he would have had to put is like, oh, context for you, you've put in some hard fucking work in that session to achieve what you did.
[00:27:32] Kyrin Down:
But the real question is, we asked him afterwards, would you do this again? And he was, hell, yeah, I'm going to do this again. So the real question is, will he have the hard work, the determination to put that in over the next, let's say, year long period until it comes back again to actually beat his time and do something? Because he said he trained a bit for this, but he didn't even do a full practice session of it. He only did the individual parts. Yeah.
[00:27:57] Juan Granados:
So I do this exact same example of, example of, turf games. I trained nothing. I did one training session for like thirty minutes for this particular training session and even after I finished I was like, this would be cool to do again in some other form of fashion. So, I can definitely see that and, you know, in my example with Turf Games that I, I couldn't even tell you if I worked hard because I had no baseline. So my expectation was like survive. So I survived hence probably I was like yeah I worked hard because I didn't think I was gonna even make it. So in some aspects I'm like yeah it worked hard. Now that there's a baseline, I think now I can start being like well am I working hard or not in a contextual nature for it. But in places where I've done it just so often or I'm doing it just in such repetitive reps, take it with the podcast. Again, some people for us, you know, seeing us would be like, shit, they're working hard. Like, they put another episode out and that's the last one. Not like, they put another episode and that's been like one month in a row. F****ers, it's been five plus years, right? Like this, this for us now, this, this doesn't even feel like hard work. This is just, Hey, we're setting it up. We're just doing conversation. We'll post afterwards. Again, in a context, someone just starting, they'd be like, What is going on? Like, this is just ridiculous that you're putting this out. Or others, it's like, holy shit, these people are doing nothing. Like, I'm doing so much. There's always levels to what you're doing, but it is so contextual to the position that you're in. The last thing I wanted to add before we maybe go to Boostgram Lounge and then talk about hard work applied to jobs
[00:29:26] Kyrin Down:
afterwards is I'm not a fan of it, to be honest. In terms of like a
[00:29:32] Juan Granados:
I've got I've got a good I've got a good one after the Boostragram to talk about. Okay. If you like. The
[00:29:38] Kyrin Down:
the aspect of working hard to me, if you had to put it in terms of admirable qualities that people can have. Oh, man. Yep. I'm putting it lay low down. Get ready for it. Get ready for it. Get ready for it in the in the next place. Okay, sweet. So so yeah, when it comes to like hard work, I'm certainly more in the prefer I prefer technique. I much prefer like if I can be lazy and I there's I feel like there's a bit of a glamorization of being able to like I. Disagree with that so strongly. And do it really hard. Whereas if you could do something with more technique, if you can do it smarter, I personally think that is a much better way of doing it. There's the the expenditure of willpower in terms of being able to what is it like put it out in a in the shortest amount of time or whatever it is. Yeah. Not not not something I've learned admirable or something that
[00:30:41] Juan Granados:
I certainly don't elevate it as much as some people do. Okay, We'll talk about it after the boot screen because there's a couple of things there to touch on. I think the latest one, I think I called this out was, Peter's. Peter's one, which I said oddly riveted by this episode. I believe that was obviously the one talking about the cards and stuff like that. Yeah, correct, correct. Then he said 3,666. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Wo
[00:31:10] Kyrin Down:
conversation that we did with a couple of friends of ours. I'll try and I'll try and spread that love to our friends because they contributed to that episode very greatly. So, correct. Yeah, it's I mean, that's a good thing about podcasts, right? You can have crazy stuff that you're not expecting to actually rivet you and you find fascinating in some sort of way. Correct. Correct. So yeah, I think I think that was it. There's a value podcast if you want to contribute some time, talent and treasure. Once Once again, I have to jump away for a bit here. So I'll just it's better to free ball spitball this section right here.
You can do this in multiple different ways. Time you can share the show, you can join in, you can word-of-mouth is critical to podcasts like this. This is how these things get around. So giving that out there, telling someone about this, pointing them to a specific episode is greatly appreciated. Talent, if you've got topics that you want us to hear, if there's something that you can help contribute to the show in some form or manner in terms of audio, in terms of the, gifts, in terms of joining hell, even just jumping in on a discord and contributing there and then treasuremeremortalspodcast.com/support and using an app like fountain to boost in very, very much appreciated.
[00:32:29] Juan Granados:
Now this one is just one to talk about hard work and I'll apply to effort effort is very closely linked to, I guess, hard work. Yeah. I'm I'm almost using them synonyms. Yeah. Almost synonyms. Synonyms. Now I'll give you, my take when you was talking about, like, you know, you don't see the quality as being like a maybe as high a thing as maybe the skill set or the technique to it. The way that I approach it is, so I'll see it with my daughter but also with me. So I've seen both ways, I'm trying to apply it and I apply it to myself in that, at least that I see it as a human context, I mean, in models context, Sometimes, no matter what you do, you might not achieve what you want to do. Right? So, in terms of winning, you might, be, again, hard. You might be fantastic at what you're trying to do and you're pushing hard, but be it luck, fortune, genetic, whatever else, you ain't gonna be Hunter. You ain't gonna be Ricky. You ain't gonna be these people. No matter how hard you work, you ain't gonna do it. Kyle is pushing really hard at being the best hen's hen's hen's ever he can be. I mean, we can talk about that a little bit. You're probably not gonna get that. That's the reality. Like the probability of this is very low. Like probability wise, I'll tell you it's very low. No, no, no, no, no. We need to define that. I think the probability of me being the best that I can.
No, stop, stop, stop, stop. No, stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. It's very different. What you're saying. What did you say? The probability the probability of you being the best ever. Like no across humanity. What did you say? I think I thought you said the best that I can be. Oh, no. No. See, there's different. It's different. If you're saying the best that you can be, which is where the hard work and effort I think comes from, absolutely. Like, that's where I'm kind of get to. But if you're saying Yeah, best ever, zero probability. Yeah. Best ever in like in a lot of context and now obviously people get there because there are people who are the best ever. But it's very, very rare probability is quite low on that. And so I kind of see it in the sense of you can't rely obviously on that being the metric that you are aiming for exclusively. I think some people do and you can, if you achieve it, awesome.
But I hope like, you know, everyone else won't achieve it and so all of them were going to be disheartened by the fact that you didn't achieve that particular very, very lofty status. Some people can be driven by that, some people can be absolutely burned by it. But if I look at myself or or say my daughter, I go, I kind of want to provide context where when she's doing something, be it reading, running, sports, whatever, I want to praise her for the effort that gets inputted into whatever she's doing versus being like, oh well done on coming second in that race, well done on finishing the third book that you were reading. The, that focus on the achievement, I guess, you know we talked about whether you do something efficiently or not, is less of a care factor than the effort that you put towards doing something.
Much harder to do I think on yourself, that's because I think we can be a little bit more judgmental or hard pressed on like yes but I want to do 100 kilometers of running a month and I want to finish on this particular time. I think there's a bit of a balance there that you have to really see with yourself but at the end of the day, I really wish I could do that fully with myself in that I'm like praise the effort that I put forward again totally depending on the context and how much you're sleeping and eating and what else is going in life because if you yourself give the best effort you can, again, so that's coming to the point of, you know, if you went down the path of, hey, I want to become the best handstander Kyren can be, that takes a level of effort like, you know, or hard work And so that pure focus of on that is, yep, as long as you're doing the best you can do your effort, fuck it. Like, that's absolutely what the focus should be on and I and the key factor more so than, oh yeah well done you unlocked this skill or you're able to do this technique or you're able to hold the handstand for fifteen seconds on the right hand side something to that effect.
I think that's a poorer quality that I will hold versus the amount of effort that someone outputs. So, yeah, I personally think why the would you spend so much time doing handstands and stretching and reading? Like, what a waste of time. But here's a caveat, here's a caveat. In the context of me. In the context of me, if I was if, like, me as a human, if I was doing that, I'll be like, no. This is shitty. What am I doing? But it's me. It's like this is context of one. So it's obviously, everyone's an individual. But then the quality of hard work that you put in to doing it, that's what's amazing. That's why I'm like in a similar way that anyone want to talk about it. It's like, Ono Kyron puts in ridiculous effort on this because he's been doing it for years just like I've seen myself do it for years in other things and it's that effort, that hard work in the individual.
[00:37:03] Kyrin Down:
It is like, oh, I'm like, I admire that so hard, like holy shit, that is admirable. Yeah, that's kind of like different types as well, I guess because if you think about like there's the hard work of like, a routine type of thing. So like when I come into this session, for example, and this is maybe where, what you're trying to get at before, I, I will certainly be giving it my utmost effort to do the best that I can in there now. And that includes things like, if I'm chatting with someone, like, trying to cut the conversation short, so I can go back to doing the doing the handstand so I don't get cold.
And doing things like really mentally preparing before I do a set. It's like, I'm not I'm not just like, if you watch me do it, I don't just like, lazily come into it and kick up into a handstand. Like, no, I'll like, place my hands very specifically. It's kind of like the Nadal, you know, when he's like, does his whole thing before every single fucking serve that he does. It's kind of like that where it's like, okay, this is my way of routine of like, getting myself into like, alright, go Thomas right now. When I was thinking about like, my dad, for example, so if I chucked him into that Hyrax event, he's gonna quit. He's not gonna work hard. He's gonna be like, fuck it, this stupid. What's the point? Sure.
But if you look at him over the last thirty years, like, he works really hard in a job, which he didn't particularly love, but he provided for a family, he, you know, was there consistently doing that. And so when it comes to things like, there will be situations in your life where you will have to do a bout of hard work, and you can't rely on technique, there's nothing you can do, you're moving house soon, there's there's probably going to be stuff that you have to do in the yard or packing up here and just straight up moving shit, like unless you practice becoming a professional mover, you're not going to be able to use technique to get out of this situation. Correct. You're going to have to just put in six hours of moving furniture, shit, packing up in boxes, gonna get late into the night, you're not gonna want to do it. And it's like, oh, okay, no, but like, come on, if we do it now, we can completely like, you know, get this all done, this will work out better for other things.
So there's one of those ones where it's like that is where I would see hard work being a good quality because you don't want a person who if they get into a situation which will occur like everyone in life, doesn't matter how rich you are, doesn't matter how poor you are, doesn't matter how well optimized you are with your daily routine. Brian Johnson or whatever. The there's there's going to be a situation where you can't get out of it. And the only answer to it is hard work. And that is where you want a person who can just be like, not bitch and whine and give up halfway through. No, they'll go out there and they'll move dirt for five hours because that's just what needs to get done. Yeah. One thing that that's certainly and applying that to jobs as well. If you got a shitty job, but you just got to keep gat it. Like you don't have an opportunity to get out of it at the moment. Yeah, sure. You want you want the guy who will show up consistently and do that job, even though it's shitty. And there's no technique to be
[00:40:15] Juan Granados:
applied to it. Yeah correct and what I think most people get wrong because it's actually, it's actually is wrong when you think about it this way, that most humans tend to trend towards you know, being happy, your chase, joy and whatnot. That's actually incorrect, that's actually by the way that our brains work incorrect. The way that our brains actually work on a day to day basis on an hourly and minute basis is you actually want to be away from discomfort. We just, we try to move away from discomfort as much as possible. So under that definition, in the effort or the hard work, you could probably connect some of it to how much can you put yourself through discomfort and be okay with continuing in discomfort. Again, I see a lot of great attributes towards the individual, the mere mortal out there who can put themselves in discomfort and again that could be enhanced hands and reading and practicing and doing something that's hard work, for an extended period of time in a conscious way, that is that is someone who then if you then shift that to some other area, again, you know, you might never have done handstands, let's just say you might never have read a book or try to learn another language. But if you've got those transposable skills of working hard at somewhere else, you're more likely to go and apply them elsewhere. Right? Which is interesting because if that is true, why doesn't your dad then apply hard work into like if you were to drop them into hierarchs like sure your dad would have worked hard at many things that he's on his life to set up things. And he still can. So there's
[00:41:48] Kyrin Down:
like this cage where he puts stuff in his apartment at the moment, but it's kind of unsecure. There's been a bunch of break ins recently. And so he was like, Okay, if I secure the inside of this, like corrugated iron, one is going to be much harder to access, and they also can't see into it. So there's that. And he like, foolishly didn't ask me or my brother's help to do this. And so he just got all this shit himself. And like, worked himself to the bone for like five hours trying to put him down. Okay. Yeah. Yep. And so he's still definitely capable of it. But it's the I guess, there's got to be a purpose or meaning behind it. And this also gets into the reason why jobs in terms of like actual career job will hard work can be applied to that. And I've got some strong thoughts on that. Okay. Well, the one that I thought you might like is
[00:42:41] Juan Granados:
noted down here recognition paradox. Right? That's attributed to, to hard work, because I think many, many people attach hard work at the end like when you can see, when you see other people, it's very hard to see the underlying hard work that's being applied. Again, if you had never talked about where you're up to with handstands or what you do, what level you're at, you just said to people like, oh, yeah, I spend two hours a day doing handstands and another hour doing stretch something to that effect. People might be like, fuck, what are you doing? Like, what if you did three hours of on a job and you could be building a business and you could be making money?
Or contributing to society. Perhaps. Well, I think there's a there's a recognition paradox that we exist in, right? Which is, if you look at it, many, in the comparison, many historical figures that actually labeled or did work. Hard work in obscurity, but only celebrated post human sleep when it was all said and done or they died and then they became really famous for whatever work. This happens a lot with painters, right? There's a lot of painters out there where they applied hard work skills. I got really bad at fucking nobody gave a about them in the moment. Only afterwards do they one, value what they put out and two, would have been like, man, he worked really hard in the shadows type of deal. I think that's a really key problematic part of like in the recognition paradox is that people will quote unquote value hard work and see hard work of others when it achieves the outcome that is generally posited to be a good thing by society and what that is is social status, money, something else to that effect, right? So if you kind of do like something that you're putting a lot of effort in a day to day basis but you're not achieving aim and status and you're not achieving power or money, then it's very easy for anybody else to be like what the hell are you doing? Like those are some great things to be achieved and it is very hard as a human to see that of others, if you look at it in that lens very, very difficult. Which is why, some people that I see in a very external face, right? And I've had some of them on the podcast, Emil Juricic, you know, you might see him and be like, Argh, he must be a really hard worker because he's, you know, quite successful in a lot of property development and la la la la la la all the stuff. Ensure that might be true, you cannot call someone a hard worker because of that you don't know how it eventuates that. It just so happens that he is a hard worker in all of our definitions.
But is he more of a hard worker than you, Karim, in the way that you apply it? You know the reality is it might be the same. It's just the way that it's applied to whatever it is you're choosing. But under society's view, it's like, oh, well, look, his hard work is way better because he achieved, multi millionaire status and look at his home and look at all this. Look at current, what's going on? But, just look at him. But, but I think that spin on how society views it and how humanity views it is a dangerous tool because it's only, you know who you're impressing? You're impressing the other humans. You know who you're not impressing? Yourself. That's the problem, right? Because you could be successful again. Successful in the human eyes of everyone else in the world. And sure you do put effort but then you kind of go like, again, contextual to you, you might actually know you're putting that much effort and you want to put effort into HintSense but then you're going to get downtrodden by people who then think like, no, no, no, no, like you know, your parents might be like, hey, no, you've got this great job that you're doing right now at the mines, why would you stop that to go and you know pursue, flexibility and fitness and all that. Like what kind of stupid thing is this?
Same with, Alex Homozi has his story, he used to be a consultant, He used to work at, not Accenture, but I think it was Ernest and Young or one of those PwC. He was out, he was going well, he was going on the right path. And then he said he was actually scared to tell his parents. So he left where he was working, started driving towards California. Wasn't only like until two thirds that he was there. That he basically called his parents and be like, Hey, I think I'm gonna quit and I'm gonna start a gym. And they were like, Fuck no, you're not gonna do that. And then he was like, Oh, I'm worried too you guys are the cross country like I'm already on my way, so sorry. And they were like, No, what what is going on? Why would you do that? Sure and these applicability of hard work is the same but again just in the context of how people see it, people will see it very differently based on what society or the general understanding of the day is of what hard work is. Yeah. Inversely, I bet you, bottom, I bet you that if you went to one of those tribes and some rural African place where they really value like running and whatnot, if someone just started being like an entrepreneur and working really hard, I reckon they'd ostracize them and be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Hard work and running and going into meal. Like, Like, that's, that's so shit. Well, who would do that? Yeah. So I think there's it's very dependent on the context of the of the social inspection that you live in versus the context of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an unfortunate like relation to have you with your parents if you're you happen to do that.
[00:47:34] Kyrin Down:
There's, my brother saw this TikTok video. He's telling me about it recently and it was this it was like this meme coin trader or some shit who was just clowning on a McDonald's worker, just saying like, fucking if you work in McDonald's, like, you're fucking stupid. Like, what are you doing with your life and stuff like this? And my brother was saying he didn't like that because he's like, there's this quote that he said, which is like, making money is making money, essentially, which is like if someone's doing something that they're, let's say they're working, you know, what are all the myriad of reasons to do it? If they're working at McDonald's and they're making money and that's, that's what they're doing, like that's not something that should just be clowned upon easily. And like is my brother was was kind of saying like, he thinks a lot of these people are saying this sort of stuff because like, perhaps they're afraid to take a step out and do something like that to put themselves out there.
And I was like, Yeah, that's, that's a good point of view. And then also, what about the person who's at McDonald's who's working, but they should be following their dream and they're too afraid to take that step like Alex or Mosley did to do what they think is their passion. Like, you know, there's hard work in terms of where you can apply it. I this is where I kind of dislike the idea of jobs or how the how society treats work a career job, which is if Einstein was born two millennia ago, you know, he's obviously got the brains. And let's just put most of that as to like, internal cognition thinking the way his brain is set out and not him, the amount of time he actually spent writing out equations, because he did a lot of that.
He could have used that energy, willpower, hard work that he had in farming a fucking field and just cultivating tilling down the day. And that is would have been such a waste of human potential and of the betterment of society, if you want to call it like that. Instead, he found what I guess you would call his passion. And he worked very hard at that. Like, look, I don't know, I haven't read his memoirs or anything. So maybe he hated theoretical physics. Like, it's it's possibility. Probably not. But that's one of those times where it's like, you know, he could have worked hard. But that was, in my view, a life wasted in many cases. And I'm sure there's plenty of people throughout history who were so extremely smart and were just born in such shit circumstances that they didn't have any opportunity. Like they were literally a slave or something where sure, they could work hard, do hard work in their life, but it was fruitless hard work. And that's that's definitely where I'm like, I feel there's a lot of still going on even today. And this is why I'm like kind of hopeful for the AI's and the jobs to get displaced just so people have an opportunity to fucking wake up and be like, look, look, look, and there's no need to work hard at this stupid fucking shit. This entry level job.
Yeah,
[00:50:47] Juan Granados:
little management position Looking in the past and now into the future, there's so, I know you've been tuning into a lot of AI stuff. I've only just recently started listening to the podcast called moonshots from Peter D'Amanda. Do you know who Peter D'Amanda is? I'm aware of him. Yeah. Now, just quickly, so I only listened to him on Tom Bily just recently. I've heard of Peter Diamandis for a long time. Fucking phenomenal podcast and the guest he gets on there. All of a sudden I've been like consuming it like non stop. Really good shit. At the guy just recently here, who was the most cited AI researcher in the world and we had some really good conversations. So, big shout out, Peter Demanders, Moonshot Podcast, fuck it. That was really good podcast.
But one aspect that we're talking about is the him and, Stephen Portlet, whatever it's not last name is, they're doing a new book, and one of the names that potentially want to do for it is the Age of Abundance. So the and it kind of made me think, you know, we're moving towards an age of abundance. No matter what you think of the timeline, it's coming. And when you have this age of abundance where a lot of things are but easily available to you, put it another way, it becomes a lot easier to not be in a place of, distress or discomfort. It's quite easy to be, you know, relaxed and provided to by the robot overlords.
I think there's going to become a huge crisis towards the hard work and effort the people do because they're just not going to have to. And it is that differentiation between like when you have to, you can't well you have to like otherwise you're gonna die to survive. So then hard work again, to the context isn't hard work because you have to do it. And you can you can feel
[00:52:26] Kyrin Down:
what fulfilled after a full day of like shoveling shit around in your backyard. You're like, look at this big fucking hole I made.
[00:52:35] Juan Granados:
Men, what have all months? Exactly. If you do that over like ten years, then it's then it's like, geez, I dug a whole bunch of big fucking holes for zero point. Yeah. So there's there's certainly like I I get like the small Yesterday, I I trained from 7AM to just before 8AM. We went to my daughter's soccer and then we did housework from around 09:30 to five p. M. Basically nonstop until like for like a twenty minute break. Yeah. And I felt really like fulfilled. I was like, I did a lot of hard work. I put some directed effort.
[00:53:04] Kyrin Down:
$80. A year's worth of that, you'd you'd be I imagine you'd be like, this was fucking pointless. Like if you quit your job now and you just did that, then you for sure. But then as the abundance is going to come with
[00:53:16] Juan Granados:
maybe all like 98% of the things that we do can be just fulfilled by other beings, bots, whatever. Same thing if you had a lot of money, right? You all of a sudden get to a point of well you don't have to suffer this taste, you don't have to be in discomfort, but in the lack of it you then lose the meaning of what is you know consciously exerted effort or hard work. And I think that is going to be, it's gonna be dangerous, but a gigantic opportunity that's actually gonna come up. So if I looked at it in the dangerous sense, I think it's gonna be a lot of humans, a lot of mere mortals out there that are just gonna be not wanting to put in the hard work and that creates a lot of issues in that front. But the opportunity, if you listen to this, I think a lot of people will reflect and resonate with this. If you just put in a little iota or of effort, a little iota of hard work to what's whatever discipline you want, I think you can come to achieve and become some of one of the world's best in whatever the fuck you want to do. And I'm not talking about just monetization aspect of it or business, I'm talking about anything because there's going to be such an abundance of people who will just stop doing a lot of hard work because they don't need to.
And they're just not used to the I've got to put in effort now just relax and just watch Netflix while I get fed by this robot or something to that effect. They'll just do that. So the Wall E the Wall E version of the Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you know, again, there's a classical stuff. I bet that it's more than 50% of the of the world that if you said, I have a pill right here. This has, you take this, you do not have to work out anymore. It's the equivalent of working out five out, something's that. I already have that don't I? Ozempic or something? No, well Ozempic actually takes, it reduces your muscle mass as well. So, one of the things that people don't actually realize is Ozempic stops your cravings for food.
Great. Obviously you have your overeating, but it's mechanisms for helping you lose weight is it's overabundance to then burn a lot of the muscle that you have in your skeletal frame. You don't want that. You fucking don't want that. But, you know, some people do wanna just reduce weight. Yes, you will reduce weight, but what are you reducing, right? Some of it's gonna be the musculatry. News flash, that's fucking dumb. So don't do that. Again, if you could do it naturally, obviously, if you do extremes, maybe it's good if you wanna reduce from like ridiculous levels. Yep. But yeah, I think it's gonna come to a point where again, if you had a pill and that pill you were like, Hey, you have this and it's the equivalent of five hours of training per week, muscular wise and you can gain all these things.
Again, for me, like, let's be realistic. I'll probably then take that in train. I don't mean like, but but even if you had to choose one or the other. Yeah. I think I would still choose to train to do the the the the hard effort. I think 50% or more of humans on Earth, they would go, Yeah, well, then I'm not gonna try and I'll just take the pill. And because I just don't want to be in discomfort doing that. I'd just rather do this. And I think that's fine. Because I'm sure there was an equivalent pill
[00:56:12] Kyrin Down:
related to something that someone cares deeply about that you or I would take that. Yeah. Then we would be like, whatever. Yeah. Like, this is needless hard work. Becoming a really good piano player or violinist or anything like that. I'd be like, fuck, yeah, just take the pill and just become really good at it. One, I'm sure a lot of people that I would disagree with is learning a language. I could just have the the app that just instantly does it almost instantaneously. I'd be saying like, there's things in your brain that have changed when you get it. I feel like you learn a lot of the nuances. You'll never like as good as it gets, like it'll never replace that, the joy that you can get from like the spark of learning a new word and it fitting into this thing and things like that. And I'm sure there's there's other variations of this as well. So I don't think
[00:57:01] Juan Granados:
there's anything wrong with like avoiding it as well. Yeah. What was going on related to that it is, in part the anticipation of achieving something or doing something that brings the joy within it that if you were just to achieve it, then you miss all that. You were just talking about a particular husky event that you're really like keen to go to and whatnot. It's the anticipation of going to it that gives you the benefit of the joy and the happiness and the anticipation of wanting to do it. If you were just like think you're there, there would be less joy. There would be less, not accomplishment, but just take away from it as it was to be that, you know, you'd have to wait for it. Again, this applies with hard work, you know, there's probably a lot of joy and you know feeling good that you achieve a, you know, when you achieve your first one minute worth of handstands.
If you had just been given the ability to do it the next day, it would feel less
[00:57:55] Kyrin Down:
joyful and successful than the hard work that you have to put in to do that because there was also anticipation that was built into it. Yeah. This is the where one of the things I think people miss about the the job thing when it's like hey. I was gonna take our jobs. And this is where I'm like, that's a great thing because there's so much stupid shit. Because if you ask the general population, would you work if you had if this money was just coming in, would you still go to this job? Look, this is this is where it's get hard. I, I really want to think that most people would say no, that the work that they do is there's this Simon Sinek video with Lex Fridman, which I really enjoyed.
And it was funny because Lex is more on the side of hard work and and like Simon is brutalizing yourself to get it, whereas Simon's more in like the finding and meaning and joy and he's kind of got this mission of like, want people to be at their workplace fulfilled, happy and feel safe or something like that. Whereas Lex was more about the hard work needed to build up amazing companies a la the Steve Jobs and things like this. And I'm definitely more on the Simon Kent, which is, hard work is great if you're doing it to the thing that you love. If it's like a voluntary hard work, if it's involuntary hard work, you're being, you know, in the extreme cases would be slave labor.
You know, there's there's no meaning, fulfillment, accomplishment of doing the thing because you're forced to do it and you hate to do it. And this is where I really hope that the this kind of conversation can switch in the future of, okay, we're losing our jobs, but now we get to choose our meaning and working hard at that. There's still going to be a whole bunch of people who are just like fat slobs, laziness. They just want to mooch and they look, they can already fucking do that. In Australia, if you just want to be on Centrelink, play video games and not even play them well all day, you know, because it's funny because there's another thing that needs to change saying playing video games where it's like there's a lot of people out there now who can make work really hard playing video games. So we need to find a new term of like the lazy thing of like it used to be video games, but now Not really. Yeah. If you want to laze around all day, do shit all. There's going to be people who do that, and they're already doing that.
I'm just really hopeful that the when someone asks you, what do you do for work, for example, when people ask me that and I've struggled with this for many times, you've heard me over the fucking all of the monthly goals saying like, I don't know how to say this and it's still refining it. I was, I was having a chat with Leo, the gym hype man, Leo. So cool. I love this guy. And he's actually moving in gym, unfortunately, so I'm not going to be able to do this anymore. But his observation was that when someone asks you about your job, typically they're wanting to know your relative wealth. And I think within that would be things like your status, social capabilities, perhaps, and things like this.
But also your capacity for hard work. Can you actually, like, hold down a job and work hard at this thing? And I'd always focus more on the wealth out of that question when someone asked me that. So if I said like, Oh, yeah, you know, I'm retired. It would then give the impression like, okay, so he's just fucking lazy shit, who doesn't do anything all day. Whereas now I'm, hence this this new monthly goal is like, oh, you know, I retired and then or, you know, I don't need to work for money. And I'm now pursuing this passion of becoming one of the best handstanders in Australia or hand balancer in Australia. That's still going to be messy because people then typically like, what's hand balancer? No, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.
So I guess for me it's like how much do you value hard work, even if there's no need for it? Aka like and this gets tricky because there can be people who are savants, they're just naturally like amazing at something, people who are really shrewd. So they've got perhaps like the cheating that's kind of like the CrossFit guy, those who are lucky or pretty or have really good ways of technique or something. How much would that was is hard work valued in the future where you don't need to actually do it? Does it does it still retain its I think good capabilities,
[01:02:35] Juan Granados:
good qualities for you if there's no need? I think it does. And this is good. That's it will if you're internally focused and then it won't if you're externally focused. However, externally it will show up in a great way in different ways but you have to have it internally focused first because it what I was gonna say was I'm starting to get to a similar problem now, weirdly enough. I was working on having a meeting with someone on Thursday and they asked me that question like awesome what are the things you do? And I started saying all the things that I do beyond just what I was like talking to him about and I started going like, this is dumb, like the amount of things I'm just starting to say here is this dude either thinks I'm lying or this dude it's just like just becoming dumb with all the things I'm saying.
So then in my mind, I was kind of like, I think I need, I also need to change tact. How I say this exactly, I'm not sure but one part of it is like, you know, you know, if someone said to me like, oh what do you do? I think it's a better answer to say, oh like I like to work really hard at the things I find interesting. Yeah. And I think that's that's a good capture because Yeah. Well, like, I'm trying to fulfill
[01:03:41] Kyrin Down:
my maximum potential as a human being. Yeah. It's like so vague and weird, but it's
[01:03:46] Juan Granados:
it's probably the closest to all of them. But then you can yeah. And then you can kind of get into the the the things if they care about it. But honestly, I think I'm gonna have to start answering in similar ways because it's no longer just such a routine answer that you'd expect. Again, I'm happy that it's in that position, but it's just a very different thing. So I think in that regard, there's that. But as we move into the future, I think societally, hard work will not be seen as great anymore because you can achieve so many other things so easily. Right? But internally, I think it will still hold the test of time where as as a human, as much as we are gonna be human and not just robotic counterparts, hard work will still mean a lot of things in a lot of different contexts. Even if it is to the, critically, critically, critically, why the fuck would you wanna do hard work if everything seems really simple and you can do really simple things? I'll give you the the key corner sign because most days aren't generally easy as a human from an immortal perspective. It is. Your life is fairly generally fine until the fucking day that it's not.
And it's that day, the hard work that you've been putting in for weeks or months or whatever will actually show up and that's when the payoff actually happens. I'll write it down in my like journal, page just again. I've been waking up early for such a long time and it's all exciting. I have to, it's like it's good, I like it. I get to get my workouts in. I consciously and put myself in positions that I'm doing a lot of things. I'm always fairly busy putting a lot of effort and this week that come past, you know, they generally say, you know, when you're getting married or doing a wedding, that's gonna be the hardest thing and the second hardest thing is buying a house. And then the fourth hardest thing is doing selling a house. And the fifth hardest thing is oh, the fuck, I'm doing all of them at once. All of them at once. Who says this? I've never heard that. Haven't you? Yeah. There's a list of like It's a it's a hard thing. It's a it's a the most stressful stress things in here. I thought I've maybe it's like life milestones. Nah, that's like, what are the most stressful things by like some single one? Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And so I'm like, part of me goes I have another kid at the same time. We're joking about the people like, oh, imagine if you were like, when you're pregnant now and like start another thing. But it's in that layer of it the hard work for me, great in the interim sometimes when it's really easy, like heck yeah.
You know when hard work pays off? When I have to wake up 9PM, not try try to get daughter to sleep at 3AM, then get up at 4AM to do the same fucking thing plus try and get everything else sorted because there is no other out. There is no other, like, helping you out. Yeah. Show up then. See how you go when you're like in true suffering and what you do in that day because fuck real easy to just be good and all well when everything's going fine. How do you show up when it's a hard day when you don't want to be doing the things that even bring you joy? How do you react then? Because I I would be hazard a guess that most people and into the future, yeah, you're gonna have great fantastic days devoid of suffering and issues and whatnot. Until one day the internet goes down, something else happens. It's you have to pull out something and your adrenaline kicks in and whatever and your floppy ass, you know, shitty mind that you haven't been using for a while, it's just not going to be there, right? And you're leaded by a lion and I'll be running away. So I think it's like, you know, be hard work in itself, I think prepares oneself for the dangers and the hard times to come.
And at least exerting effort in whatever you want to do, it does have applicability on other areas so that you can apply it and use it and if you just like a muscle, if you're just not using it and acting upon it, it's gonna be really hard pressed when you have to put it to use. And then it's just like, Oh, hey, it's not there. Oops.
[01:07:19] Kyrin Down:
I think I think my view on this could shift in ten years, where at the moment, it's still I feel technique is probably the better thing to focus on more, you know, use your your skills to get out of doing hard work in an unnecessary fashion. And that that should probably be like main goal number one, get yourself into a financial position, a social position, physical condition, which you're really happy with and use technique to get there so that you're not having to grind away unnecessarily at shit that you hate, a. K. A. Wasting your life potential. Yeah. But once you get there, you know, what the fuck are you going to do? Are you going to laze about and just have a shit day and just lose all meaning in life, getting a holistic and whatnot? Or are you going to take the current path and work hard at things? But it's just
[01:08:10] Juan Granados:
unconventional. It's not the standard norm. It might not have the social status associated with it that something else does. And that's going to get it's going to get worse and it's going to get worse. And that's why I was saying, if you are focused on it being external, you're fucked. Like you are gonna be fucked over because it's gonna become so societally driven to the things that everyone favors. But the more you can go down the path of internal care factor for the hard work, then fuck it. Then you're gonna be rewarded both like primarily internally, maybe externally from a society perspective. But if you're not society, certainly, you know, support it fantastic. So I think more and more we are gonna see even more domination of power and money. Like there's gonna be people out there who are gonna be, you know, multi trillionaires, multi trillionaires with the focusing on power and money and everyone else is kind of going to be the mid level individuals. I mean, if you want to talk about wealth perspective because yeah, age of abundance, everyone's going to like streamline and middle in and what everyone sort of earns so everyone can live the happy life that's deemed by society and then you're gonna have these supreme oligarch level multi trillionaire type people who can just do whatever the hell they want or companies if you want to look at it that way. Again, how much influence me or you have on that? Nothing. Like on society level or like that world level. Nothing. Not at all. But you can control
[01:09:28] Kyrin Down:
internally what you do and what you deem as hard work and how much value you take away from that. I saw this funny meme recently of a of a streamer. It was like, no one understands like how much grind I have to do, like the hard work that I put in. And then it was like comparing him to like a fisherman in like, you know, Laos or something. Like, who's like, if I don't go fishing for sixteen hours a day, like my, my family and I will starve. So I was like, Okay, well, you know, and then of course, the stream is just like, it shows a zoomed out view of him just like, lounging back in his chair, like, with on his keyboard and mouse surrounded by thing with food over here and stuff. I wonder across history if a similar thing is happening or happened, which is the first time that the CEO position came out or the first time that people started to use knowledge work, as as instead of tilling in the fields, the first time that someone was a mayor of a town and having to like organize all these things and their responsibility, all of these jobs, which now would say like, oh, yeah, probably requires a lot of hard work to be CEO, or probably requires a lot of hard work to be like a trader on a trading desk.
And now it's like, the streamers, the gamers, the social influencers, all those people were like, that's not hard at all. Like, you're not putting any hard work into that. But maybe in like fifteen years time
[01:10:56] Juan Granados:
when as humanity progresses more, it's still like, oh, shit, no, that like streamers, you're a streamer? Fuck, that must be a lot of hard work, you know? Yeah, it's all a bit I wonder if that will come in ten years. Yeah, it's all it's all contextual. I think it's all, yeah, it will it will shift and change. Like I sent a, you know, this quote, I'm reading the current book by Steve Bartlett, the 33, laws of business and life and, in one of the laws he talks about what are the things they do for his particular podcast for a diary of a CEO and the level of intricacies and little things that they do like we don't do here not even quite on no for any interview that we've ever done and so there's a lot of hard work let's just say a lot of things that are going into it Again, externally, maybe you censored, maybe you don't, is it really the success? You know, they talk about the the small little 1% wins across everything is what ends up winning in the end rather than the big one, like, you know, big humongous wins that actually achieve something.
So maybe there's something to that and like enough hard work everywhere that it deems it, but for sure it's gonna change. Like what hard work was one hundred years ago to what it is today to probably in one hundred, two hundred years in the future, for sure will change. Externally. Externally will change. Internally, it will never change. That will always remain the same, which is why I kind of go foundationally, why I kind of see it as a as a pinnacle thing for my daughter. It's I know no matter what change is gonna come, if I price effort and I go, yep, like I'm I'm proud of the hard work. No matter what the hard work is put, that is gonna be like cool because immaterial of whatever gets achieved. Right? And I didn't realize this until kind of recently in that I'm thinking my dad, but it wasn't my dad that directly taught me this, but it was him teaching me it via my granddad saying it directly. You know, my dad my granddad has a saying which is like basically an English translation of it doesn't matter what you do as long as you do it to the best of your ability, right? And Nao said to me man, because I was like fucking tiny kid, right? It was always the same, I was a matter of you're a baker, doesn't matter if you're doing whatever, but you better show up and you better work hard on whatever the you're doing. Which I like that. I like that. Which was like, put the effort. That's what matters. Doesn't matter what position you're in. You're gonna get some internal, like internally, you're gonna feel fine if you work hard. Externally, again, chance, luck, fortune. Yep. You can't really deem it. Obviously, sometimes hard work may achieve great things externally.
We might see that we put in ten years into this podcast and it doesn't achieve what most people externally see is like, wow, that's like unbelievable work. But then the paradox is, I call it probably eight years into this podcast, it'll hit some level of growth. It'll be like, oh shit, holy fuck, where did these guys come from? You know, look how good it goes. And again, it'll be like, yeah, but you didn't see the seven years of continuous hard work, which again, to us, I'm saying it's not that much hard work now. But it would seem that way if you wanted to replicate it similarly with, not so much Stevens, but, with, Chris Williamson's podcast again, he was saying at the very beginning, I think the first forty or 50 episodes, most of them when he like when he looked into the stats, it was his mom watching it or nobody. So he was putting you know 40 episodes out and nobody was listening to this, right? You could look back and be like, Oh shit! Like you put the hard work even when like no one was listening to it. That happens all the time. Like this is everyone all the time and then you hit a particular curve and take off. But it's it's almost foolish to focus on the external success that's gonna come. You can only really control the internal stuff that comes from it. So I think from a hard work perspective I'll summarize as this. Think about it fundamentally, fundamental physics maths, it is purely like do not judge another person for doing it because from a work perspective it is so contextual.
You can put in you can say Hunter is the the hardest worker or can you say Manchil is the hardest worker. Mhmm. You can't really say that. Definitely Hunter. Objectively objectively, you can make a call, right, by base fundamentals. Subjectively, you can't. You cannot make that call unless you know the context of the full of it. So don't don't even try to do that. And then when it comes internally, I think be ready for things to change with the age of abundance coming. It's gonna become so easy to be just a happy slob. Be like, call that out. So what are you gonna do when that happens? Are you gonna continue hardworking? Or are you gonna let yourself just soften up?
[01:15:12] Kyrin Down:
You can decide on your model. My my advice, quit your job. Work hard at becoming a fat slob. Lays about. Be the best. Yeah, get get on your social pension plan or whatever it is ASAP. This is the way forward.
[01:15:27] Juan Granados:
It was Elon Musk's on Joe Rogan just recently, they're talking about how they're right now in most countries debt, bubble, they know how much debt they owe. And people think about it like, oh, shit, there's a lot of debt that's being owned right now. But one of the biggest time bombs as well, well is if people keep living longer, how many people are going to get older as well? It's the social security and the pension and all those sort of things that will balloon multiple times to what it is now and if there is less people that are being born which means there's less people in the workforce to pay for tax that goes towards those things. It's like multiple worse that's going to get not it it's not going to ease up even as much as you say right now it's going to get worse, hence Bitcoin, with the inflationary that's going to come.
[01:16:10] Kyrin Down:
I think that's
[01:16:11] Juan Granados:
the Yeah, that's it's ticking time bombs everywhere, folks. Yeah.
[01:16:15] Kyrin Down:
It's just like, how long can it go on for it? And yeah, I don't know. That's it. That's top. Exactly.
[01:16:21] Juan Granados:
As long as you you've got 1 bitty, 1 bitcoin, that's all you need. We'll leave it there. Me and Mortland, thank you very much for tuning in for the music. I don't think there was any comments or anything. No. So just just as a reminder, this episode we're releasing
[01:16:34] Kyrin Down:
a week later than we actually record it just because there's one one's going away. There'll be a bit of a gap in that week. So we're just filling up with this one. So any boost grams, any messages, comments that come in, we'll get to it in the week afterwards. So just FYI, we do see these things. We do acknowledge them. We do appreciate you coming in and joining us on the Discord. It's pretty active in there. Usually got a few things going on in the different channels. So
[01:16:57] Juan Granados:
lots of links of random stuff that were coming across in our everyday lives and whatnot as well. That's correct. All right. I mean more or less thank you very much. I hope you are well wherever you are in the world. Bye now. Cheff now. Bye.
Welcome back Mere Mortalites. It is 09:14 in the morning. It is the March 2. You got Juan here. And Kyrinhere. We've got musings on today. For the podcast. We go live at 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on Sunday, so a little bit late at the moment. One key call out, again, I was saying that I'm gonna do this. 78% of you, roughly, who are listening to this are not subscribed. Do so. Do so. It does help us out a lot, especially from a value for value perspective, helps us give you some value to more broader individuals and in turn, perhaps we get some value as well. We'll talk about it throughout the podcast in the middle and the end as well to just remind you of that. But now going into it and yes, mom, you are correct. If you've got a message, it is current birthday today. Oh, yeah. He is 33 years old. Say happy birthday. Please send him through some, SATS. '33. I'll prove it '33.
I appreciate it. 33,000,000 SATS would be nice, but you know, Vegas can't be choosers. This is correct. But today I want to talk about hard work. So, you know, Karen asked me this question, what do we talk about for the next episode? This was bubbling in somewhere in me. It wasn't like a hard press thing that I wanted to talk about but then the more I started, using my little friend ChachiPT and asking it some questions but also just generally thinking about this. I'm like, you know what? We could probably get into a good fun conversation about this. I'm gonna define it though. I'm gonna define it in supremely basic first principle physics, right? Hard work. Work is basically energy you're spending to move something with weight a certain distance. So, if you want to talk about work in joules, it's just purely like energy being used for something. So, at the absolute fundamental what the hell is work and maybe what hard work is versus soft work or low work, I would just say descriptively if you were to say someone how you're doing hard work, you're kind of just saying hey you're putting a lot of energy towards something. Isn't it energy over time?
Which equations? I didn't like to look at the actual equation for it, but no no, if you want to get technical, work is force exerted over distance. Work is force exerted over distance. Yeah. Okay. So it's kind of looking up the equation. Yeah. But work is force exerted over distance. But basically like if you're saying to someone like it's just how much energy are you putting towards something, right? And if you're saying hard work I guess you sort of decided it's hardening. When you say over distance you mean times like work equals force times displacement. Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay. So yeah this is basically saying to someone if you want to define it that way, hey you're putting a lot of energy towards something and moving it towards a certain location. So there is no it that is the human substance that then defines over the top of that whereas you term something to be a good hard work or a maybe intolerable what a waste of time at work description or work in general so I wanted to find I was also thinking work equals power
[00:03:04] Kyrin Down:
times time
[00:03:06] Juan Granados:
power times time that's the one I was thinking of okay so yeah I knew there was something to do with time So in any case, it's sort of like, if you want to define it this way, it's purely, you know, take away the human bias. If you look at a monkey or something like that and if you say, Hey, they're doing hard work. Yeah, they're probably running towards something. Doesn't know what they're doing. And if they're maybe just walking, maybe the hard work effort is less, right? Less power over time. So, the final way, we just, you know, when we get into this conversation, there's all human layers thrown into it because by definition, you could probably get into some reasoning as to like, Yeah, you can't really decide that, Hey, current handstands are not hard work, but working on a business, that's hard work. If you go fundamentally, no, that's bullshit. Like there is no differentiation here. It is very, it is just a subjective human bias that you're overloading with that. So I want to set that absolutely at the forefront. Yeah. My first question to you actually before anything else was, have you had anyone in your time say to you that either high incense or stretching, is not hard work or is a waste of time? Probably you. Probably me. Probably me. Yeah. Have you had any other people say this? Nah, no way. I don't think so.
Nah. Nah. Do you think subjectively anyone would say it's a waste of energy is probably better off than doing something else with the same amount of work? No.
[00:04:23] Kyrin Down:
Never had that.
[00:04:25] Juan Granados:
Never had that at all. No, no, actually,
[00:04:28] Kyrin Down:
the people that I've talked to, probably the biggest critic I've had would be my dad who doesn't see the point in it. But I don't think he that he'd argue that I'm not working hard at it. But in terms of the point of doing it, he doesn't see that. But no, I don't I don't think I've had anyone ever question whether I'm working hard at it. Yeah. Okay.
[00:04:53] Juan Granados:
Yeah. So they conversely how sorry, that was the other one. You rank your training sessions from 110. Basically ranking. Yeah. How do you then define you yourself whether you've given enough or actually worked hard in a training session?
[00:05:11] Kyrin Down:
So just for those, they're very similar to my book reviews and how I rank them. So like, it's a very shifted bell curve, centering around seven out of 10 is the like a normal. I do you look, I don't actually do it based on hard work. I feel like I come in every session pretty consistently and will just do the best I can with that. So if you come into handstands and you're trying to push harder, you're trying to balance harder, that's not going to work like that. That's the wrong mentality to have coming in. It should be more about, you know, what, what can I try and do in this next set? Or I actually don't even think it's worthwhile thinking about the next set.
More just what can I do today and not hurt myself almost in essence? Yeah. And just just do the reps is essentially it. And some reps look, here's an experience I had the other day. I had a session which I came in, I felt pretty good. I prepped really well, you know, like stretched, warmed up, everything was really good. Start off the session and probably the first like forty minutes was okay. Like, alright, I'm getting some balances, like shoulders feel good. I'm not in pain. This is okay. And then just the longer it went, the more frustrated I got. And the like, I could see that this essence of balance was just not there on the stage.
And no matter how hard I pushed, no matter, like, how tight I pulled my legs down and put it in this certain position, I was not finding this essence of like the balance, I guess what you call it. And if it had been any worse of a session, I would have laughed. Like it would have been laughable how bad it was, But because it was just still a little bit better than laughable, it was actually extremely frustrating. Now, what can I take out of that? You know, could I have worked harder? No. And it was almost like, it would have been better. Probably, if I'd just been like, Okay, this session is a bit of a write off.
I'm actually just getting frustrated now, like, is this helping me, there's actually just ruining my rude mood for the next of the day, The rest of the day. Maybe I should just go and do the weights that I do afterwards, which is just mindless, like pushing, pushing stuff. And that is certainly where I can feel like I can work harder. There's times where you've got like, very lightweight still of dumbbell chest press or whatever. And I go down, you know, pushing up and I get to like seventh rep, I can feel it's like a little bit wobbly. There's certainly something where I know, okay, I could if especially if I had a spotter, I could probably get out another three reps, even though it feels like men that last one was like almost all I had. I don't know if I've got any left to me.
So for the, I think handstand training is just too different like I don't think the concept of hard work applies to it too much. Oh, okay, okay. Do you think most, do you think the like the top level handstanders would agree with that? That
[00:08:38] Juan Granados:
they'd go like, oh, yeah, yeah, hard work doesn't really apply to they
[00:08:43] Kyrin Down:
some of them some of them so for example, there's this guy I think it's that Yuval Or the there's some guys who, for example, will try and do I think it was like four by 10. And it was I'm going to do 10 reps of stall to press. And then I'll do 10 handstand push ups, and then I'll do 10 normal straddle presses, and then I'll do 10 of like another press type move. And that takes, you know, I don't know how long that takes them, like ten minutes plus probably to do all that. Maybe, maybe eight minutes, whatever. And that one is certainly one where he's not worrying about balance too much. And so for him, it is like me and my muscles are on fire, like they're burning. I come down and I'm pushing back up and it's more like, I don't know if I can push this last bit. Okay. For him and for people doing one arm presses and shit, they're probably at a different level where they've gotten back into they've gone beyond like the the, the what I'm training now, which is more than like the mind and the minute little balances. And they're now all the way back into like, muscle, like, I need to make my muscles bigger, stronger, to be able to fucking push harder. Stephanie Miller, another great example. She was doing trying to do a world record of I think it was like 400 plus stall depresses or something.
For her that was certainly about hard work and not about the balance and the minutiae of of trying to find that little, little thing. So yeah, and if I was doing more something like a really long trying to go endurance handstands, That's probably where hard work is a bit more applicable and things like that.
[00:10:35] Juan Granados:
So then so then is it worth so then going more basic? Do you think it's worth beyond handstands just in everyday life? Focusing or caring about hard work. Is that even a concept that you care about to think about?
[00:10:50] Kyrin Down:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can apply for tons of things. Yeah. You don't chores if you're doing your normal job, your whatever it is that you're working on, I think there's tons of things that you can apply it to. Yeah. The I guess maybe a question back at you. What what is how does hard work differentiate from just work? What's what's the difference context to I think it's context. And so because one of the biggest things in thinking about this was
[00:11:21] Juan Granados:
hard work for someone is just shit or work for somebody else. Right. And it just it is very much contextual to what it is that they've defined and done because you know fundamentally I go I think hard work is very important but it isn't important in the sense of the direct short term gains although they're good but it is the long term context shifting that is very, very good. So I think the difference for me when you think about it, and that's why I was asking you if anyone had kind of said to you like, oh, well, you know, they see you doing six hours at the gym doing some handstand work and doing fitness and being like fuck.
Like yeah, you're putting in at work, but that's not hard work. Hard work would be if you were working on the mine or if you were doing something like What's the biggest hater that I've got? Like if you were doing like manual tools or whatnot, you know? But you could make reasonable conversations about like well you know the the desk worker white collar person doing an eight hour job or twelve hour day, that's hard work but how do you balance that with the hard work of working on the tools for ten hours? And I think that's a, that's actually a stupid question, that's an unformed question. I think the better question is, yeah, in the context of that particular individual, human, what does hard work look like and if they are under or over applying it to that particular regard? So you know if you were to ask me, you know, what do I define hard work? I think it or how it applies to like humans, the immortals, it would have to be like whatever you're capable of doing, are you exerting yourself to improve or at least do what you can do or are you mentally, physically, other aspects limiting it because you're just too weak of mind, too weak of body, something else and then in the context of how everything else is in terms of your sleep and your eating and all that sort of stuff that fundamentally makes big changes to that domain. So I think it can have a significant difference depending on the context. So, you know, as much as I may joke around that Kyren's handstand and stretching is a waste of time, you could also, it, kind of can go full circle in the, if you put a lot of hard work in running, you then have to do a lot of hard work and stretching. So you don't go real stiff, and you have really bad, you know, muscles and whatnot. So it's all a time and place as to what it is that you're optimizing for in like challenging yourself. Or Yeah, yeah, I think it
[00:13:44] Kyrin Down:
attaches very closely to willpower for me. So agree with the context. So for example, yesterday, I went to see our friend Mitchell from the previous episode. He was doing high rocks.
[00:13:55] Juan Granados:
Those who don't know high rocks is an event which is came out of nowhere. I have no idea why this thing is. I think it's like, I think it came out like six or seven years ago or something like that, but it became popularized like really, really recently. I heard about it three months ago. Yeah. And I knew about it like a long time before a lot of most people but it was purely because I listened to a strong barbell podcast or something but they always talk to Hunter McIntyre who's a guy who holds the world record or held the world record three times and a four time world champion. I remember listening to him like at the beginning of Hireup when he was just starting, I was just like who's this fucking superhuman, what the fuck are they doing? But I never tuned into any of it, but relatively recent and became really popular recently. Yep, so it's
[00:14:38] Kyrin Down:
exercise where you do a one kilometer run and then an exercise, then a one kilometer run, then another exercise. And you do that eight times. And the exercises are things like sled push and pull, burpees. Rows, gear, wall balls, kettlebell. Farm carry. Yeah. Farm carry. Yep. That sort
[00:14:56] Juan Granados:
of thing. Bag.
[00:14:57] Kyrin Down:
Takes between typically like an hour to two hours. I was actually looking up. I just typed in. I typed in into Google like, you know, what's what's a good time? I think I typed in what's a good High Rocks time? And it said a respectable High Rocks time is one hour thirty two minutes. And our friend mentioned it's not respectable. It's not hard work.
[00:15:19] Juan Granados:
So he didn't put in the hard work. He is disrespectful
[00:15:23] Kyrin Down:
towards Hirox. Shame on you. Definitely admirable. But watching him was was really interesting. And he honestly, he surprised me yesterday, because he grinded away. And he put in a lot of hard work that I hadn't seen in him before. I hadn't seen him doing this. I agree with this. And so that was really impressive. I was like, wow, you know, when he was fucking like dying in the burpee section, like he did do the jump, It come down and he just smack into the ground. Like he had no nothing left in his upper chest and body. And you could see him there like on the ground just fucking panting. And it's like, oh, shit, is he gonna give up right now?
He's in a lot of pain. He's not doing too well. But then yeah, sure enough, he'll push himself up and do it again. And so you get to see him like working hard. Now. Unfortunately, I didn't have the chance to like, judge other people in terms of their hard work, because, you know, I'm there to support him. I'm focusing on him. And it's just a very chaotic moving around a lot. You don't, as a spectator, you you're walking from station to station to watch your friend and support. And so you don't get to see like the people he started with and how he's comparing against them too much because there's so much running involved with so much other stuff. So I couldn't see that there's only a couple of things that I saw there was one thing I saw there there was a guy who was doing burpees at the same time Mitchell was and this guy would jump and then cheated in a couple steps forward. No, he hit as he jumped, he'd instead of placing his hands next to his feet, he placed them like a solid like meter away. And so he'd just be gaining a meter with every jump, because then he'd do the push up and then stand up to where his hands were, jump again. And so he's essentially just inch, like getting forward an extra half a meter a meter in this way, which isn't part of the rules.
Now, he got called up by the judge, one of the judges for this, but he'd already been doing it for like, two thirds of the course. So like, it had already gotten his max gains out. And this is getting where it's like getting towards technique, and, and things like this. So that guy, he broke the rules, the rules say you meant to put your hands next to your feet or something like that. So he was cheating in essence. And I would say he wasn't doing the hard work, he should have been doing all of the work, but he was he was missing a bunch of it. Technique is one of those ones where it's like, you can have better technique, which is meant to save you work.
So does that mean you're not working as hard if you've got better technique? Or is that and it's not cheating to have better technique to work on things and to, you know, I'm going to pull the sled in this manner, which will allow me to do it in a more energy efficient manner. But you're doing less hard work at the same time. So where's this like, balance in terms of technique turning into not doing work, not doing the thing properly? And this is where you'll see it in CrossFit a lot where they've just got like, the fucking dodgiest form on certain things. Is it more energy efficient? Or is this where it's turning into like them just fucking up? So I think this gets into the very
[00:18:42] Juan Granados:
specific differentiation of there is raw hard work by its its definition down to like mathematics physics aspect of it which is at its base the more work that you can do rep wise, the more you improve on that particular skill or item that you're doing so that it's literally the more reps you do it the better you get, the more you habitualize to that particular setup. That is a different optimization than optimizing for the most efficient, effective, fast time that you can do in a hierarchy, something similar, different because you do have those aspects of of course you have to have hard work and effort to get to it but then it is influenced as you say if you're doing a slip pull and let's just say by just by numbers it takes a hundred jewels if you were to do it really hard work effort like just slug it but if you do a specific technique and it takes you 92 jewels of effort, but still do the same then you go and do that particular one. So I guess you're not optimizing for the like the amount of hard work you're doing for the hard work's sake but you're doing, you're achieving what you need to do, doing less hard work but you're achieving the other outcome that comes behind it. Which is, I guess that that's a very, very different definition of hard work that people need to understand that there is the fundamental doing it for the pure like reps, jewels, energy, wattage that you take on and then the optimization for something else a skill and mobility and anything else.
Because the way that I was going to define it for me is there's certain things the way that I live my life that I do which very easily could people could view from the outside and go like oh Juan works hard. And that I could only define that too. If you define it by I wake up really early, I'm always doing things energetically like pushing towards something. There's not a lot of time where I'm relaxed or not thinking about swimming, I'm pushing or moving around doing things. That is the repetitions I've done in like day in day out for years and years and years that maybe I now see it as, ah, it's kind of habitual that's just what I do. But again, if you're looking at it from externally and a different perspective, it's like holy shit, you don't understand my context, so you just think like holy fuck, he's doing hard work everything all day. For me, it's like, it doesn't feel like hard work, it's now just the habitual this is just what I do. Then if you focused in on skill set, specifically skill set or, doing some sort of demand that I'm trying to achieve, that one I would say, yes it's good to apply hard work but you you want to kind of be more optimal about it. You don't want to just be absolutely going raw dog as hard as you can on a task that may be better done with a bit more efficiency and effectiveness.
Again, case in point, one of the things in one of the businesses in terms of creating a document, I could go hard work and do it all myself and that's like the highest level of hard work output that I can or I can leverage tools to achieve the same outcome in a much reduced amount of work that is outputted by me, but I'm still getting to the same result. So there's aspects there that it's like it's smart to go do that unless your absolute max outcome is do as much work effort as you can possibly then there's different things. But I think there's a there's a clear differentiation in that. It's the same as saying, it's like something that we both don't do but I would just imagine sprinting. Like you're sprinting, there is the hard work that is just the pure like rips, the energy of running fast, of putting the effort to it and doing the kilometers. Mhmm. That's all hard work and you could easily define that under like the movement of energy and all that. But then the skill that's picked off it, you know, you could say the you know flexing your toe or doing your knee woggles or doing something else where it's like you're not working hard, let's just say specifically, but you are, improving something very specifically for maybe efficiency or effectiveness to that task. So kind of like it's but it kind of goes in both ways and it's you've got to clearly differentiate between what is hard work and what you define and what the context is and then what are the other things that you do auxiliary that might be you're doing more efficiently but it's actually okay like not everything has to be hard work all of the time.
Again, personally, do I want to exert the most hard work I can with my daughter when I'm with her? No, no way, like that's that's ridiculous. I would want to be present and gentle and slow, then I would want to be hard work at all because the, you you want to call it, the optimization or the thing that I want to get out from that isn't, hey we need to exert the most amount of force or the most amount of learning or the most amount of reading or the most amount of watching TV, nothing like that. It's more so around, it's the being present and the purely of being available That is the dominating factor there not amount of work,
[00:23:30] Kyrin Down:
like exerted for it. The person who won the hierarchs event yesterday, let's just say for the men's scene Hunter. Yep. That's who it was. Didn't follow. Did he put in the most hard work? You think? And this is one of those questions, which I think could be kind of like sneaky, because I don't think so. Yeah, I wouldn't. I don't think so. I wouldn't say that either. I would say, at least in the moment. So in that, you know, fifty two minute. And then this is funny, because you would say, Oh, he did it in what, fifty eight minutes something? Fifty five, I think. Fifty five. Good on you. That's amazing. He did probably the most work in terms of like power over time.
Like he or what was it force force over distance? You know, for some distance? Yeah, he he did the most like he did it the quickest. Therefore, he must have worked the most. Right. So by that technical definition, but if I'm applying it to this concept of willpower, which I didn't really link before, which was I think it's like that overcoming of the what would you call it the negativity, the thing in your own brain that's trying to stop you or your own body that's trying to stop you and say, like, No, don't do any more Like this is this is where you should rest or this is where you should just do more technique here or something like this. This is where I'm thinking like, no, it was probably the person who was grinding through the most.
And you know, I'm using like loose terms here. I'll put I'll put some numbers in a moment. Yeah, that that was the person who in that however long it took them to actually do it, you know, maybe it was the person who did it in one minute, one minute, one hour thirty eight minutes. But they, in that, you know, training and stuff like coming into it, they thought they'd probably only be capable of one minute fifty, one hour fifty, then that person like just fucking grind it and work so hard that they managed to actually do it quicker. It's kind of like, okay, their their willpower, they expended so much willpower that that was kind of how they got to it. Now, if you're asking me who worked the hardest over the long period, that's when it's like, okay, Hunter's probably got a really good chance of being the hardest worker in that time period over the last let's just take ten years.
Because to get to that very, very elite level, he would have had to have done so many reps, so much time and effort and energy put into it where it's like, okay, this guy did work really fucking hard. Correct. And, and, Ian, see, that's the super it's good in like competitions or sports because you see it so, clearly. But
[00:26:16] Juan Granados:
over the like fundamental again levels, Hunter probably was the yep, is that hard work in terms of power output and whatnot? Definitely, like you can mathematically get those numbers out. But if you then go down to the mere mortal level, it is pure context of what your baseline is I guess or what your expected is to your actual. So if Hunter's best because he holds or held the World Record I think a couple of times, if it was, you know, generally fifty three-fifty five minutes and if he came in there within an hour and five minutes and let's just say it wasn't because of sickness or other things it was just mentally or physically he just didn't show up, then you could make a pretty good player to be like, Hey, you know what? He didn't work hard.
He could have been putting lots of effort and he is substantially better than just about everyone who was there. But for the context of him, it wasn't hard work. It was a slightly underachievement to what he's done previously. Whereas Alfred Mitchell, right, he maybe if he'd come in there and be like, you know, I've done some of the numbers, I've trained like fairly hard, I think I'm gonna get two hours and then pulled out the hour and forty three minutes that he did, then the delta between expectation and reality and the difference he would have had to put is like, oh, context for you, you've put in some hard fucking work in that session to achieve what you did.
[00:27:32] Kyrin Down:
But the real question is, we asked him afterwards, would you do this again? And he was, hell, yeah, I'm going to do this again. So the real question is, will he have the hard work, the determination to put that in over the next, let's say, year long period until it comes back again to actually beat his time and do something? Because he said he trained a bit for this, but he didn't even do a full practice session of it. He only did the individual parts. Yeah.
[00:27:57] Juan Granados:
So I do this exact same example of, example of, turf games. I trained nothing. I did one training session for like thirty minutes for this particular training session and even after I finished I was like, this would be cool to do again in some other form of fashion. So, I can definitely see that and, you know, in my example with Turf Games that I, I couldn't even tell you if I worked hard because I had no baseline. So my expectation was like survive. So I survived hence probably I was like yeah I worked hard because I didn't think I was gonna even make it. So in some aspects I'm like yeah it worked hard. Now that there's a baseline, I think now I can start being like well am I working hard or not in a contextual nature for it. But in places where I've done it just so often or I'm doing it just in such repetitive reps, take it with the podcast. Again, some people for us, you know, seeing us would be like, shit, they're working hard. Like, they put another episode out and that's the last one. Not like, they put another episode and that's been like one month in a row. F****ers, it's been five plus years, right? Like this, this for us now, this, this doesn't even feel like hard work. This is just, Hey, we're setting it up. We're just doing conversation. We'll post afterwards. Again, in a context, someone just starting, they'd be like, What is going on? Like, this is just ridiculous that you're putting this out. Or others, it's like, holy shit, these people are doing nothing. Like, I'm doing so much. There's always levels to what you're doing, but it is so contextual to the position that you're in. The last thing I wanted to add before we maybe go to Boostgram Lounge and then talk about hard work applied to jobs
[00:29:26] Kyrin Down:
afterwards is I'm not a fan of it, to be honest. In terms of like a
[00:29:32] Juan Granados:
I've got I've got a good I've got a good one after the Boostragram to talk about. Okay. If you like. The
[00:29:38] Kyrin Down:
the aspect of working hard to me, if you had to put it in terms of admirable qualities that people can have. Oh, man. Yep. I'm putting it lay low down. Get ready for it. Get ready for it. Get ready for it in the in the next place. Okay, sweet. So so yeah, when it comes to like hard work, I'm certainly more in the prefer I prefer technique. I much prefer like if I can be lazy and I there's I feel like there's a bit of a glamorization of being able to like I. Disagree with that so strongly. And do it really hard. Whereas if you could do something with more technique, if you can do it smarter, I personally think that is a much better way of doing it. There's the the expenditure of willpower in terms of being able to what is it like put it out in a in the shortest amount of time or whatever it is. Yeah. Not not not something I've learned admirable or something that
[00:30:41] Juan Granados:
I certainly don't elevate it as much as some people do. Okay, We'll talk about it after the boot screen because there's a couple of things there to touch on. I think the latest one, I think I called this out was, Peter's. Peter's one, which I said oddly riveted by this episode. I believe that was obviously the one talking about the cards and stuff like that. Yeah, correct, correct. Then he said 3,666. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Wo
[00:31:10] Kyrin Down:
conversation that we did with a couple of friends of ours. I'll try and I'll try and spread that love to our friends because they contributed to that episode very greatly. So, correct. Yeah, it's I mean, that's a good thing about podcasts, right? You can have crazy stuff that you're not expecting to actually rivet you and you find fascinating in some sort of way. Correct. Correct. So yeah, I think I think that was it. There's a value podcast if you want to contribute some time, talent and treasure. Once Once again, I have to jump away for a bit here. So I'll just it's better to free ball spitball this section right here.
You can do this in multiple different ways. Time you can share the show, you can join in, you can word-of-mouth is critical to podcasts like this. This is how these things get around. So giving that out there, telling someone about this, pointing them to a specific episode is greatly appreciated. Talent, if you've got topics that you want us to hear, if there's something that you can help contribute to the show in some form or manner in terms of audio, in terms of the, gifts, in terms of joining hell, even just jumping in on a discord and contributing there and then treasuremeremortalspodcast.com/support and using an app like fountain to boost in very, very much appreciated.
[00:32:29] Juan Granados:
Now this one is just one to talk about hard work and I'll apply to effort effort is very closely linked to, I guess, hard work. Yeah. I'm I'm almost using them synonyms. Yeah. Almost synonyms. Synonyms. Now I'll give you, my take when you was talking about, like, you know, you don't see the quality as being like a maybe as high a thing as maybe the skill set or the technique to it. The way that I approach it is, so I'll see it with my daughter but also with me. So I've seen both ways, I'm trying to apply it and I apply it to myself in that, at least that I see it as a human context, I mean, in models context, Sometimes, no matter what you do, you might not achieve what you want to do. Right? So, in terms of winning, you might, be, again, hard. You might be fantastic at what you're trying to do and you're pushing hard, but be it luck, fortune, genetic, whatever else, you ain't gonna be Hunter. You ain't gonna be Ricky. You ain't gonna be these people. No matter how hard you work, you ain't gonna do it. Kyle is pushing really hard at being the best hen's hen's hen's ever he can be. I mean, we can talk about that a little bit. You're probably not gonna get that. That's the reality. Like the probability of this is very low. Like probability wise, I'll tell you it's very low. No, no, no, no, no. We need to define that. I think the probability of me being the best that I can.
No, stop, stop, stop, stop. No, stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. It's very different. What you're saying. What did you say? The probability the probability of you being the best ever. Like no across humanity. What did you say? I think I thought you said the best that I can be. Oh, no. No. See, there's different. It's different. If you're saying the best that you can be, which is where the hard work and effort I think comes from, absolutely. Like, that's where I'm kind of get to. But if you're saying Yeah, best ever, zero probability. Yeah. Best ever in like in a lot of context and now obviously people get there because there are people who are the best ever. But it's very, very rare probability is quite low on that. And so I kind of see it in the sense of you can't rely obviously on that being the metric that you are aiming for exclusively. I think some people do and you can, if you achieve it, awesome.
But I hope like, you know, everyone else won't achieve it and so all of them were going to be disheartened by the fact that you didn't achieve that particular very, very lofty status. Some people can be driven by that, some people can be absolutely burned by it. But if I look at myself or or say my daughter, I go, I kind of want to provide context where when she's doing something, be it reading, running, sports, whatever, I want to praise her for the effort that gets inputted into whatever she's doing versus being like, oh well done on coming second in that race, well done on finishing the third book that you were reading. The, that focus on the achievement, I guess, you know we talked about whether you do something efficiently or not, is less of a care factor than the effort that you put towards doing something.
Much harder to do I think on yourself, that's because I think we can be a little bit more judgmental or hard pressed on like yes but I want to do 100 kilometers of running a month and I want to finish on this particular time. I think there's a bit of a balance there that you have to really see with yourself but at the end of the day, I really wish I could do that fully with myself in that I'm like praise the effort that I put forward again totally depending on the context and how much you're sleeping and eating and what else is going in life because if you yourself give the best effort you can, again, so that's coming to the point of, you know, if you went down the path of, hey, I want to become the best handstander Kyren can be, that takes a level of effort like, you know, or hard work And so that pure focus of on that is, yep, as long as you're doing the best you can do your effort, fuck it. Like, that's absolutely what the focus should be on and I and the key factor more so than, oh yeah well done you unlocked this skill or you're able to do this technique or you're able to hold the handstand for fifteen seconds on the right hand side something to that effect.
I think that's a poorer quality that I will hold versus the amount of effort that someone outputs. So, yeah, I personally think why the would you spend so much time doing handstands and stretching and reading? Like, what a waste of time. But here's a caveat, here's a caveat. In the context of me. In the context of me, if I was if, like, me as a human, if I was doing that, I'll be like, no. This is shitty. What am I doing? But it's me. It's like this is context of one. So it's obviously, everyone's an individual. But then the quality of hard work that you put in to doing it, that's what's amazing. That's why I'm like in a similar way that anyone want to talk about it. It's like, Ono Kyron puts in ridiculous effort on this because he's been doing it for years just like I've seen myself do it for years in other things and it's that effort, that hard work in the individual.
[00:37:03] Kyrin Down:
It is like, oh, I'm like, I admire that so hard, like holy shit, that is admirable. Yeah, that's kind of like different types as well, I guess because if you think about like there's the hard work of like, a routine type of thing. So like when I come into this session, for example, and this is maybe where, what you're trying to get at before, I, I will certainly be giving it my utmost effort to do the best that I can in there now. And that includes things like, if I'm chatting with someone, like, trying to cut the conversation short, so I can go back to doing the doing the handstand so I don't get cold.
And doing things like really mentally preparing before I do a set. It's like, I'm not I'm not just like, if you watch me do it, I don't just like, lazily come into it and kick up into a handstand. Like, no, I'll like, place my hands very specifically. It's kind of like the Nadal, you know, when he's like, does his whole thing before every single fucking serve that he does. It's kind of like that where it's like, okay, this is my way of routine of like, getting myself into like, alright, go Thomas right now. When I was thinking about like, my dad, for example, so if I chucked him into that Hyrax event, he's gonna quit. He's not gonna work hard. He's gonna be like, fuck it, this stupid. What's the point? Sure.
But if you look at him over the last thirty years, like, he works really hard in a job, which he didn't particularly love, but he provided for a family, he, you know, was there consistently doing that. And so when it comes to things like, there will be situations in your life where you will have to do a bout of hard work, and you can't rely on technique, there's nothing you can do, you're moving house soon, there's there's probably going to be stuff that you have to do in the yard or packing up here and just straight up moving shit, like unless you practice becoming a professional mover, you're not going to be able to use technique to get out of this situation. Correct. You're going to have to just put in six hours of moving furniture, shit, packing up in boxes, gonna get late into the night, you're not gonna want to do it. And it's like, oh, okay, no, but like, come on, if we do it now, we can completely like, you know, get this all done, this will work out better for other things.
So there's one of those ones where it's like that is where I would see hard work being a good quality because you don't want a person who if they get into a situation which will occur like everyone in life, doesn't matter how rich you are, doesn't matter how poor you are, doesn't matter how well optimized you are with your daily routine. Brian Johnson or whatever. The there's there's going to be a situation where you can't get out of it. And the only answer to it is hard work. And that is where you want a person who can just be like, not bitch and whine and give up halfway through. No, they'll go out there and they'll move dirt for five hours because that's just what needs to get done. Yeah. One thing that that's certainly and applying that to jobs as well. If you got a shitty job, but you just got to keep gat it. Like you don't have an opportunity to get out of it at the moment. Yeah, sure. You want you want the guy who will show up consistently and do that job, even though it's shitty. And there's no technique to be
[00:40:15] Juan Granados:
applied to it. Yeah correct and what I think most people get wrong because it's actually, it's actually is wrong when you think about it this way, that most humans tend to trend towards you know, being happy, your chase, joy and whatnot. That's actually incorrect, that's actually by the way that our brains work incorrect. The way that our brains actually work on a day to day basis on an hourly and minute basis is you actually want to be away from discomfort. We just, we try to move away from discomfort as much as possible. So under that definition, in the effort or the hard work, you could probably connect some of it to how much can you put yourself through discomfort and be okay with continuing in discomfort. Again, I see a lot of great attributes towards the individual, the mere mortal out there who can put themselves in discomfort and again that could be enhanced hands and reading and practicing and doing something that's hard work, for an extended period of time in a conscious way, that is that is someone who then if you then shift that to some other area, again, you know, you might never have done handstands, let's just say you might never have read a book or try to learn another language. But if you've got those transposable skills of working hard at somewhere else, you're more likely to go and apply them elsewhere. Right? Which is interesting because if that is true, why doesn't your dad then apply hard work into like if you were to drop them into hierarchs like sure your dad would have worked hard at many things that he's on his life to set up things. And he still can. So there's
[00:41:48] Kyrin Down:
like this cage where he puts stuff in his apartment at the moment, but it's kind of unsecure. There's been a bunch of break ins recently. And so he was like, Okay, if I secure the inside of this, like corrugated iron, one is going to be much harder to access, and they also can't see into it. So there's that. And he like, foolishly didn't ask me or my brother's help to do this. And so he just got all this shit himself. And like, worked himself to the bone for like five hours trying to put him down. Okay. Yeah. Yep. And so he's still definitely capable of it. But it's the I guess, there's got to be a purpose or meaning behind it. And this also gets into the reason why jobs in terms of like actual career job will hard work can be applied to that. And I've got some strong thoughts on that. Okay. Well, the one that I thought you might like is
[00:42:41] Juan Granados:
noted down here recognition paradox. Right? That's attributed to, to hard work, because I think many, many people attach hard work at the end like when you can see, when you see other people, it's very hard to see the underlying hard work that's being applied. Again, if you had never talked about where you're up to with handstands or what you do, what level you're at, you just said to people like, oh, yeah, I spend two hours a day doing handstands and another hour doing stretch something to that effect. People might be like, fuck, what are you doing? Like, what if you did three hours of on a job and you could be building a business and you could be making money?
Or contributing to society. Perhaps. Well, I think there's a there's a recognition paradox that we exist in, right? Which is, if you look at it, many, in the comparison, many historical figures that actually labeled or did work. Hard work in obscurity, but only celebrated post human sleep when it was all said and done or they died and then they became really famous for whatever work. This happens a lot with painters, right? There's a lot of painters out there where they applied hard work skills. I got really bad at fucking nobody gave a about them in the moment. Only afterwards do they one, value what they put out and two, would have been like, man, he worked really hard in the shadows type of deal. I think that's a really key problematic part of like in the recognition paradox is that people will quote unquote value hard work and see hard work of others when it achieves the outcome that is generally posited to be a good thing by society and what that is is social status, money, something else to that effect, right? So if you kind of do like something that you're putting a lot of effort in a day to day basis but you're not achieving aim and status and you're not achieving power or money, then it's very easy for anybody else to be like what the hell are you doing? Like those are some great things to be achieved and it is very hard as a human to see that of others, if you look at it in that lens very, very difficult. Which is why, some people that I see in a very external face, right? And I've had some of them on the podcast, Emil Juricic, you know, you might see him and be like, Argh, he must be a really hard worker because he's, you know, quite successful in a lot of property development and la la la la la la all the stuff. Ensure that might be true, you cannot call someone a hard worker because of that you don't know how it eventuates that. It just so happens that he is a hard worker in all of our definitions.
But is he more of a hard worker than you, Karim, in the way that you apply it? You know the reality is it might be the same. It's just the way that it's applied to whatever it is you're choosing. But under society's view, it's like, oh, well, look, his hard work is way better because he achieved, multi millionaire status and look at his home and look at all this. Look at current, what's going on? But, just look at him. But, but I think that spin on how society views it and how humanity views it is a dangerous tool because it's only, you know who you're impressing? You're impressing the other humans. You know who you're not impressing? Yourself. That's the problem, right? Because you could be successful again. Successful in the human eyes of everyone else in the world. And sure you do put effort but then you kind of go like, again, contextual to you, you might actually know you're putting that much effort and you want to put effort into HintSense but then you're going to get downtrodden by people who then think like, no, no, no, no, like you know, your parents might be like, hey, no, you've got this great job that you're doing right now at the mines, why would you stop that to go and you know pursue, flexibility and fitness and all that. Like what kind of stupid thing is this?
Same with, Alex Homozi has his story, he used to be a consultant, He used to work at, not Accenture, but I think it was Ernest and Young or one of those PwC. He was out, he was going well, he was going on the right path. And then he said he was actually scared to tell his parents. So he left where he was working, started driving towards California. Wasn't only like until two thirds that he was there. That he basically called his parents and be like, Hey, I think I'm gonna quit and I'm gonna start a gym. And they were like, Fuck no, you're not gonna do that. And then he was like, Oh, I'm worried too you guys are the cross country like I'm already on my way, so sorry. And they were like, No, what what is going on? Why would you do that? Sure and these applicability of hard work is the same but again just in the context of how people see it, people will see it very differently based on what society or the general understanding of the day is of what hard work is. Yeah. Inversely, I bet you, bottom, I bet you that if you went to one of those tribes and some rural African place where they really value like running and whatnot, if someone just started being like an entrepreneur and working really hard, I reckon they'd ostracize them and be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Hard work and running and going into meal. Like, Like, that's, that's so shit. Well, who would do that? Yeah. So I think there's it's very dependent on the context of the of the social inspection that you live in versus the context of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an unfortunate like relation to have you with your parents if you're you happen to do that.
[00:47:34] Kyrin Down:
There's, my brother saw this TikTok video. He's telling me about it recently and it was this it was like this meme coin trader or some shit who was just clowning on a McDonald's worker, just saying like, fucking if you work in McDonald's, like, you're fucking stupid. Like, what are you doing with your life and stuff like this? And my brother was saying he didn't like that because he's like, there's this quote that he said, which is like, making money is making money, essentially, which is like if someone's doing something that they're, let's say they're working, you know, what are all the myriad of reasons to do it? If they're working at McDonald's and they're making money and that's, that's what they're doing, like that's not something that should just be clowned upon easily. And like is my brother was was kind of saying like, he thinks a lot of these people are saying this sort of stuff because like, perhaps they're afraid to take a step out and do something like that to put themselves out there.
And I was like, Yeah, that's, that's a good point of view. And then also, what about the person who's at McDonald's who's working, but they should be following their dream and they're too afraid to take that step like Alex or Mosley did to do what they think is their passion. Like, you know, there's hard work in terms of where you can apply it. I this is where I kind of dislike the idea of jobs or how the how society treats work a career job, which is if Einstein was born two millennia ago, you know, he's obviously got the brains. And let's just put most of that as to like, internal cognition thinking the way his brain is set out and not him, the amount of time he actually spent writing out equations, because he did a lot of that.
He could have used that energy, willpower, hard work that he had in farming a fucking field and just cultivating tilling down the day. And that is would have been such a waste of human potential and of the betterment of society, if you want to call it like that. Instead, he found what I guess you would call his passion. And he worked very hard at that. Like, look, I don't know, I haven't read his memoirs or anything. So maybe he hated theoretical physics. Like, it's it's possibility. Probably not. But that's one of those times where it's like, you know, he could have worked hard. But that was, in my view, a life wasted in many cases. And I'm sure there's plenty of people throughout history who were so extremely smart and were just born in such shit circumstances that they didn't have any opportunity. Like they were literally a slave or something where sure, they could work hard, do hard work in their life, but it was fruitless hard work. And that's that's definitely where I'm like, I feel there's a lot of still going on even today. And this is why I'm like kind of hopeful for the AI's and the jobs to get displaced just so people have an opportunity to fucking wake up and be like, look, look, look, and there's no need to work hard at this stupid fucking shit. This entry level job.
Yeah,
[00:50:47] Juan Granados:
little management position Looking in the past and now into the future, there's so, I know you've been tuning into a lot of AI stuff. I've only just recently started listening to the podcast called moonshots from Peter D'Amanda. Do you know who Peter D'Amanda is? I'm aware of him. Yeah. Now, just quickly, so I only listened to him on Tom Bily just recently. I've heard of Peter Diamandis for a long time. Fucking phenomenal podcast and the guest he gets on there. All of a sudden I've been like consuming it like non stop. Really good shit. At the guy just recently here, who was the most cited AI researcher in the world and we had some really good conversations. So, big shout out, Peter Demanders, Moonshot Podcast, fuck it. That was really good podcast.
But one aspect that we're talking about is the him and, Stephen Portlet, whatever it's not last name is, they're doing a new book, and one of the names that potentially want to do for it is the Age of Abundance. So the and it kind of made me think, you know, we're moving towards an age of abundance. No matter what you think of the timeline, it's coming. And when you have this age of abundance where a lot of things are but easily available to you, put it another way, it becomes a lot easier to not be in a place of, distress or discomfort. It's quite easy to be, you know, relaxed and provided to by the robot overlords.
I think there's going to become a huge crisis towards the hard work and effort the people do because they're just not going to have to. And it is that differentiation between like when you have to, you can't well you have to like otherwise you're gonna die to survive. So then hard work again, to the context isn't hard work because you have to do it. And you can you can feel
[00:52:26] Kyrin Down:
what fulfilled after a full day of like shoveling shit around in your backyard. You're like, look at this big fucking hole I made.
[00:52:35] Juan Granados:
Men, what have all months? Exactly. If you do that over like ten years, then it's then it's like, geez, I dug a whole bunch of big fucking holes for zero point. Yeah. So there's there's certainly like I I get like the small Yesterday, I I trained from 7AM to just before 8AM. We went to my daughter's soccer and then we did housework from around 09:30 to five p. M. Basically nonstop until like for like a twenty minute break. Yeah. And I felt really like fulfilled. I was like, I did a lot of hard work. I put some directed effort.
[00:53:04] Kyrin Down:
$80. A year's worth of that, you'd you'd be I imagine you'd be like, this was fucking pointless. Like if you quit your job now and you just did that, then you for sure. But then as the abundance is going to come with
[00:53:16] Juan Granados:
maybe all like 98% of the things that we do can be just fulfilled by other beings, bots, whatever. Same thing if you had a lot of money, right? You all of a sudden get to a point of well you don't have to suffer this taste, you don't have to be in discomfort, but in the lack of it you then lose the meaning of what is you know consciously exerted effort or hard work. And I think that is going to be, it's gonna be dangerous, but a gigantic opportunity that's actually gonna come up. So if I looked at it in the dangerous sense, I think it's gonna be a lot of humans, a lot of mere mortals out there that are just gonna be not wanting to put in the hard work and that creates a lot of issues in that front. But the opportunity, if you listen to this, I think a lot of people will reflect and resonate with this. If you just put in a little iota or of effort, a little iota of hard work to what's whatever discipline you want, I think you can come to achieve and become some of one of the world's best in whatever the fuck you want to do. And I'm not talking about just monetization aspect of it or business, I'm talking about anything because there's going to be such an abundance of people who will just stop doing a lot of hard work because they don't need to.
And they're just not used to the I've got to put in effort now just relax and just watch Netflix while I get fed by this robot or something to that effect. They'll just do that. So the Wall E the Wall E version of the Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you know, again, there's a classical stuff. I bet that it's more than 50% of the of the world that if you said, I have a pill right here. This has, you take this, you do not have to work out anymore. It's the equivalent of working out five out, something's that. I already have that don't I? Ozempic or something? No, well Ozempic actually takes, it reduces your muscle mass as well. So, one of the things that people don't actually realize is Ozempic stops your cravings for food.
Great. Obviously you have your overeating, but it's mechanisms for helping you lose weight is it's overabundance to then burn a lot of the muscle that you have in your skeletal frame. You don't want that. You fucking don't want that. But, you know, some people do wanna just reduce weight. Yes, you will reduce weight, but what are you reducing, right? Some of it's gonna be the musculatry. News flash, that's fucking dumb. So don't do that. Again, if you could do it naturally, obviously, if you do extremes, maybe it's good if you wanna reduce from like ridiculous levels. Yep. But yeah, I think it's gonna come to a point where again, if you had a pill and that pill you were like, Hey, you have this and it's the equivalent of five hours of training per week, muscular wise and you can gain all these things.
Again, for me, like, let's be realistic. I'll probably then take that in train. I don't mean like, but but even if you had to choose one or the other. Yeah. I think I would still choose to train to do the the the the hard effort. I think 50% or more of humans on Earth, they would go, Yeah, well, then I'm not gonna try and I'll just take the pill. And because I just don't want to be in discomfort doing that. I'd just rather do this. And I think that's fine. Because I'm sure there was an equivalent pill
[00:56:12] Kyrin Down:
related to something that someone cares deeply about that you or I would take that. Yeah. Then we would be like, whatever. Yeah. Like, this is needless hard work. Becoming a really good piano player or violinist or anything like that. I'd be like, fuck, yeah, just take the pill and just become really good at it. One, I'm sure a lot of people that I would disagree with is learning a language. I could just have the the app that just instantly does it almost instantaneously. I'd be saying like, there's things in your brain that have changed when you get it. I feel like you learn a lot of the nuances. You'll never like as good as it gets, like it'll never replace that, the joy that you can get from like the spark of learning a new word and it fitting into this thing and things like that. And I'm sure there's there's other variations of this as well. So I don't think
[00:57:01] Juan Granados:
there's anything wrong with like avoiding it as well. Yeah. What was going on related to that it is, in part the anticipation of achieving something or doing something that brings the joy within it that if you were just to achieve it, then you miss all that. You were just talking about a particular husky event that you're really like keen to go to and whatnot. It's the anticipation of going to it that gives you the benefit of the joy and the happiness and the anticipation of wanting to do it. If you were just like think you're there, there would be less joy. There would be less, not accomplishment, but just take away from it as it was to be that, you know, you'd have to wait for it. Again, this applies with hard work, you know, there's probably a lot of joy and you know feeling good that you achieve a, you know, when you achieve your first one minute worth of handstands.
If you had just been given the ability to do it the next day, it would feel less
[00:57:55] Kyrin Down:
joyful and successful than the hard work that you have to put in to do that because there was also anticipation that was built into it. Yeah. This is the where one of the things I think people miss about the the job thing when it's like hey. I was gonna take our jobs. And this is where I'm like, that's a great thing because there's so much stupid shit. Because if you ask the general population, would you work if you had if this money was just coming in, would you still go to this job? Look, this is this is where it's get hard. I, I really want to think that most people would say no, that the work that they do is there's this Simon Sinek video with Lex Fridman, which I really enjoyed.
And it was funny because Lex is more on the side of hard work and and like Simon is brutalizing yourself to get it, whereas Simon's more in like the finding and meaning and joy and he's kind of got this mission of like, want people to be at their workplace fulfilled, happy and feel safe or something like that. Whereas Lex was more about the hard work needed to build up amazing companies a la the Steve Jobs and things like this. And I'm definitely more on the Simon Kent, which is, hard work is great if you're doing it to the thing that you love. If it's like a voluntary hard work, if it's involuntary hard work, you're being, you know, in the extreme cases would be slave labor.
You know, there's there's no meaning, fulfillment, accomplishment of doing the thing because you're forced to do it and you hate to do it. And this is where I really hope that the this kind of conversation can switch in the future of, okay, we're losing our jobs, but now we get to choose our meaning and working hard at that. There's still going to be a whole bunch of people who are just like fat slobs, laziness. They just want to mooch and they look, they can already fucking do that. In Australia, if you just want to be on Centrelink, play video games and not even play them well all day, you know, because it's funny because there's another thing that needs to change saying playing video games where it's like there's a lot of people out there now who can make work really hard playing video games. So we need to find a new term of like the lazy thing of like it used to be video games, but now Not really. Yeah. If you want to laze around all day, do shit all. There's going to be people who do that, and they're already doing that.
I'm just really hopeful that the when someone asks you, what do you do for work, for example, when people ask me that and I've struggled with this for many times, you've heard me over the fucking all of the monthly goals saying like, I don't know how to say this and it's still refining it. I was, I was having a chat with Leo, the gym hype man, Leo. So cool. I love this guy. And he's actually moving in gym, unfortunately, so I'm not going to be able to do this anymore. But his observation was that when someone asks you about your job, typically they're wanting to know your relative wealth. And I think within that would be things like your status, social capabilities, perhaps, and things like this.
But also your capacity for hard work. Can you actually, like, hold down a job and work hard at this thing? And I'd always focus more on the wealth out of that question when someone asked me that. So if I said like, Oh, yeah, you know, I'm retired. It would then give the impression like, okay, so he's just fucking lazy shit, who doesn't do anything all day. Whereas now I'm, hence this this new monthly goal is like, oh, you know, I retired and then or, you know, I don't need to work for money. And I'm now pursuing this passion of becoming one of the best handstanders in Australia or hand balancer in Australia. That's still going to be messy because people then typically like, what's hand balancer? No, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.
So I guess for me it's like how much do you value hard work, even if there's no need for it? Aka like and this gets tricky because there can be people who are savants, they're just naturally like amazing at something, people who are really shrewd. So they've got perhaps like the cheating that's kind of like the CrossFit guy, those who are lucky or pretty or have really good ways of technique or something. How much would that was is hard work valued in the future where you don't need to actually do it? Does it does it still retain its I think good capabilities,
[01:02:35] Juan Granados:
good qualities for you if there's no need? I think it does. And this is good. That's it will if you're internally focused and then it won't if you're externally focused. However, externally it will show up in a great way in different ways but you have to have it internally focused first because it what I was gonna say was I'm starting to get to a similar problem now, weirdly enough. I was working on having a meeting with someone on Thursday and they asked me that question like awesome what are the things you do? And I started saying all the things that I do beyond just what I was like talking to him about and I started going like, this is dumb, like the amount of things I'm just starting to say here is this dude either thinks I'm lying or this dude it's just like just becoming dumb with all the things I'm saying.
So then in my mind, I was kind of like, I think I need, I also need to change tact. How I say this exactly, I'm not sure but one part of it is like, you know, you know, if someone said to me like, oh what do you do? I think it's a better answer to say, oh like I like to work really hard at the things I find interesting. Yeah. And I think that's that's a good capture because Yeah. Well, like, I'm trying to fulfill
[01:03:41] Kyrin Down:
my maximum potential as a human being. Yeah. It's like so vague and weird, but it's
[01:03:46] Juan Granados:
it's probably the closest to all of them. But then you can yeah. And then you can kind of get into the the the things if they care about it. But honestly, I think I'm gonna have to start answering in similar ways because it's no longer just such a routine answer that you'd expect. Again, I'm happy that it's in that position, but it's just a very different thing. So I think in that regard, there's that. But as we move into the future, I think societally, hard work will not be seen as great anymore because you can achieve so many other things so easily. Right? But internally, I think it will still hold the test of time where as as a human, as much as we are gonna be human and not just robotic counterparts, hard work will still mean a lot of things in a lot of different contexts. Even if it is to the, critically, critically, critically, why the fuck would you wanna do hard work if everything seems really simple and you can do really simple things? I'll give you the the key corner sign because most days aren't generally easy as a human from an immortal perspective. It is. Your life is fairly generally fine until the fucking day that it's not.
And it's that day, the hard work that you've been putting in for weeks or months or whatever will actually show up and that's when the payoff actually happens. I'll write it down in my like journal, page just again. I've been waking up early for such a long time and it's all exciting. I have to, it's like it's good, I like it. I get to get my workouts in. I consciously and put myself in positions that I'm doing a lot of things. I'm always fairly busy putting a lot of effort and this week that come past, you know, they generally say, you know, when you're getting married or doing a wedding, that's gonna be the hardest thing and the second hardest thing is buying a house. And then the fourth hardest thing is doing selling a house. And the fifth hardest thing is oh, the fuck, I'm doing all of them at once. All of them at once. Who says this? I've never heard that. Haven't you? Yeah. There's a list of like It's a it's a hard thing. It's a it's a the most stressful stress things in here. I thought I've maybe it's like life milestones. Nah, that's like, what are the most stressful things by like some single one? Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And so I'm like, part of me goes I have another kid at the same time. We're joking about the people like, oh, imagine if you were like, when you're pregnant now and like start another thing. But it's in that layer of it the hard work for me, great in the interim sometimes when it's really easy, like heck yeah.
You know when hard work pays off? When I have to wake up 9PM, not try try to get daughter to sleep at 3AM, then get up at 4AM to do the same fucking thing plus try and get everything else sorted because there is no other out. There is no other, like, helping you out. Yeah. Show up then. See how you go when you're like in true suffering and what you do in that day because fuck real easy to just be good and all well when everything's going fine. How do you show up when it's a hard day when you don't want to be doing the things that even bring you joy? How do you react then? Because I I would be hazard a guess that most people and into the future, yeah, you're gonna have great fantastic days devoid of suffering and issues and whatnot. Until one day the internet goes down, something else happens. It's you have to pull out something and your adrenaline kicks in and whatever and your floppy ass, you know, shitty mind that you haven't been using for a while, it's just not going to be there, right? And you're leaded by a lion and I'll be running away. So I think it's like, you know, be hard work in itself, I think prepares oneself for the dangers and the hard times to come.
And at least exerting effort in whatever you want to do, it does have applicability on other areas so that you can apply it and use it and if you just like a muscle, if you're just not using it and acting upon it, it's gonna be really hard pressed when you have to put it to use. And then it's just like, Oh, hey, it's not there. Oops.
[01:07:19] Kyrin Down:
I think I think my view on this could shift in ten years, where at the moment, it's still I feel technique is probably the better thing to focus on more, you know, use your your skills to get out of doing hard work in an unnecessary fashion. And that that should probably be like main goal number one, get yourself into a financial position, a social position, physical condition, which you're really happy with and use technique to get there so that you're not having to grind away unnecessarily at shit that you hate, a. K. A. Wasting your life potential. Yeah. But once you get there, you know, what the fuck are you going to do? Are you going to laze about and just have a shit day and just lose all meaning in life, getting a holistic and whatnot? Or are you going to take the current path and work hard at things? But it's just
[01:08:10] Juan Granados:
unconventional. It's not the standard norm. It might not have the social status associated with it that something else does. And that's going to get it's going to get worse and it's going to get worse. And that's why I was saying, if you are focused on it being external, you're fucked. Like you are gonna be fucked over because it's gonna become so societally driven to the things that everyone favors. But the more you can go down the path of internal care factor for the hard work, then fuck it. Then you're gonna be rewarded both like primarily internally, maybe externally from a society perspective. But if you're not society, certainly, you know, support it fantastic. So I think more and more we are gonna see even more domination of power and money. Like there's gonna be people out there who are gonna be, you know, multi trillionaires, multi trillionaires with the focusing on power and money and everyone else is kind of going to be the mid level individuals. I mean, if you want to talk about wealth perspective because yeah, age of abundance, everyone's going to like streamline and middle in and what everyone sort of earns so everyone can live the happy life that's deemed by society and then you're gonna have these supreme oligarch level multi trillionaire type people who can just do whatever the hell they want or companies if you want to look at it that way. Again, how much influence me or you have on that? Nothing. Like on society level or like that world level. Nothing. Not at all. But you can control
[01:09:28] Kyrin Down:
internally what you do and what you deem as hard work and how much value you take away from that. I saw this funny meme recently of a of a streamer. It was like, no one understands like how much grind I have to do, like the hard work that I put in. And then it was like comparing him to like a fisherman in like, you know, Laos or something. Like, who's like, if I don't go fishing for sixteen hours a day, like my, my family and I will starve. So I was like, Okay, well, you know, and then of course, the stream is just like, it shows a zoomed out view of him just like, lounging back in his chair, like, with on his keyboard and mouse surrounded by thing with food over here and stuff. I wonder across history if a similar thing is happening or happened, which is the first time that the CEO position came out or the first time that people started to use knowledge work, as as instead of tilling in the fields, the first time that someone was a mayor of a town and having to like organize all these things and their responsibility, all of these jobs, which now would say like, oh, yeah, probably requires a lot of hard work to be CEO, or probably requires a lot of hard work to be like a trader on a trading desk.
And now it's like, the streamers, the gamers, the social influencers, all those people were like, that's not hard at all. Like, you're not putting any hard work into that. But maybe in like fifteen years time
[01:10:56] Juan Granados:
when as humanity progresses more, it's still like, oh, shit, no, that like streamers, you're a streamer? Fuck, that must be a lot of hard work, you know? Yeah, it's all a bit I wonder if that will come in ten years. Yeah, it's all it's all contextual. I think it's all, yeah, it will it will shift and change. Like I sent a, you know, this quote, I'm reading the current book by Steve Bartlett, the 33, laws of business and life and, in one of the laws he talks about what are the things they do for his particular podcast for a diary of a CEO and the level of intricacies and little things that they do like we don't do here not even quite on no for any interview that we've ever done and so there's a lot of hard work let's just say a lot of things that are going into it Again, externally, maybe you censored, maybe you don't, is it really the success? You know, they talk about the the small little 1% wins across everything is what ends up winning in the end rather than the big one, like, you know, big humongous wins that actually achieve something.
So maybe there's something to that and like enough hard work everywhere that it deems it, but for sure it's gonna change. Like what hard work was one hundred years ago to what it is today to probably in one hundred, two hundred years in the future, for sure will change. Externally. Externally will change. Internally, it will never change. That will always remain the same, which is why I kind of go foundationally, why I kind of see it as a as a pinnacle thing for my daughter. It's I know no matter what change is gonna come, if I price effort and I go, yep, like I'm I'm proud of the hard work. No matter what the hard work is put, that is gonna be like cool because immaterial of whatever gets achieved. Right? And I didn't realize this until kind of recently in that I'm thinking my dad, but it wasn't my dad that directly taught me this, but it was him teaching me it via my granddad saying it directly. You know, my dad my granddad has a saying which is like basically an English translation of it doesn't matter what you do as long as you do it to the best of your ability, right? And Nao said to me man, because I was like fucking tiny kid, right? It was always the same, I was a matter of you're a baker, doesn't matter if you're doing whatever, but you better show up and you better work hard on whatever the you're doing. Which I like that. I like that. Which was like, put the effort. That's what matters. Doesn't matter what position you're in. You're gonna get some internal, like internally, you're gonna feel fine if you work hard. Externally, again, chance, luck, fortune. Yep. You can't really deem it. Obviously, sometimes hard work may achieve great things externally.
We might see that we put in ten years into this podcast and it doesn't achieve what most people externally see is like, wow, that's like unbelievable work. But then the paradox is, I call it probably eight years into this podcast, it'll hit some level of growth. It'll be like, oh shit, holy fuck, where did these guys come from? You know, look how good it goes. And again, it'll be like, yeah, but you didn't see the seven years of continuous hard work, which again, to us, I'm saying it's not that much hard work now. But it would seem that way if you wanted to replicate it similarly with, not so much Stevens, but, with, Chris Williamson's podcast again, he was saying at the very beginning, I think the first forty or 50 episodes, most of them when he like when he looked into the stats, it was his mom watching it or nobody. So he was putting you know 40 episodes out and nobody was listening to this, right? You could look back and be like, Oh shit! Like you put the hard work even when like no one was listening to it. That happens all the time. Like this is everyone all the time and then you hit a particular curve and take off. But it's it's almost foolish to focus on the external success that's gonna come. You can only really control the internal stuff that comes from it. So I think from a hard work perspective I'll summarize as this. Think about it fundamentally, fundamental physics maths, it is purely like do not judge another person for doing it because from a work perspective it is so contextual.
You can put in you can say Hunter is the the hardest worker or can you say Manchil is the hardest worker. Mhmm. You can't really say that. Definitely Hunter. Objectively objectively, you can make a call, right, by base fundamentals. Subjectively, you can't. You cannot make that call unless you know the context of the full of it. So don't don't even try to do that. And then when it comes internally, I think be ready for things to change with the age of abundance coming. It's gonna become so easy to be just a happy slob. Be like, call that out. So what are you gonna do when that happens? Are you gonna continue hardworking? Or are you gonna let yourself just soften up?
[01:15:12] Kyrin Down:
You can decide on your model. My my advice, quit your job. Work hard at becoming a fat slob. Lays about. Be the best. Yeah, get get on your social pension plan or whatever it is ASAP. This is the way forward.
[01:15:27] Juan Granados:
It was Elon Musk's on Joe Rogan just recently, they're talking about how they're right now in most countries debt, bubble, they know how much debt they owe. And people think about it like, oh, shit, there's a lot of debt that's being owned right now. But one of the biggest time bombs as well, well is if people keep living longer, how many people are going to get older as well? It's the social security and the pension and all those sort of things that will balloon multiple times to what it is now and if there is less people that are being born which means there's less people in the workforce to pay for tax that goes towards those things. It's like multiple worse that's going to get not it it's not going to ease up even as much as you say right now it's going to get worse, hence Bitcoin, with the inflationary that's going to come.
[01:16:10] Kyrin Down:
I think that's
[01:16:11] Juan Granados:
the Yeah, that's it's ticking time bombs everywhere, folks. Yeah.
[01:16:15] Kyrin Down:
It's just like, how long can it go on for it? And yeah, I don't know. That's it. That's top. Exactly.
[01:16:21] Juan Granados:
As long as you you've got 1 bitty, 1 bitcoin, that's all you need. We'll leave it there. Me and Mortland, thank you very much for tuning in for the music. I don't think there was any comments or anything. No. So just just as a reminder, this episode we're releasing
[01:16:34] Kyrin Down:
a week later than we actually record it just because there's one one's going away. There'll be a bit of a gap in that week. So we're just filling up with this one. So any boost grams, any messages, comments that come in, we'll get to it in the week afterwards. So just FYI, we do see these things. We do acknowledge them. We do appreciate you coming in and joining us on the Discord. It's pretty active in there. Usually got a few things going on in the different channels. So
[01:16:57] Juan Granados:
lots of links of random stuff that were coming across in our everyday lives and whatnot as well. That's correct. All right. I mean more or less thank you very much. I hope you are well wherever you are in the world. Bye now. Cheff now. Bye.
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