Mere Mortals Conversations

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Juan has moved house and I'm getting ready to go travelling.

In Episode #481 of 'Musings', Juan and I discuss: the challenges and transitions of moving homes, the importance of maintaining a balanced state of mind amidst life's chaos, the idea of ataraxia (a state of serene calmness and freedom from emotional disturbance) and the balance between feeling emotions and striving for equanimity.

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Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:28) Life Updates & Moving Experiences
(00:05:16) Exploring Crypto & NFTs
(00:09:19) Podcast Consistency/Future Plans
(00:13:21) Finding Equanimity
(00:20:22) The Concept of Ataraxia
(00:27:29) The Role of Forgetting in Life
(00:35:49) The Benefits of Equanimity
(00:42:11) Challenges and Personal Growth
(00:47:17) Concluding Thoughts on Equanimity
(00:49:20) Boostagram Lounge

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[00:00:06] Juan Granados:

Yes, we. Me and mortalites, welcome back. It is the   April 20 and it is Easter, Easter Sunday. Oh yeah, it is.   This is   the first one for April?  

[00:00:18] Kyrin Down:

First '1 for April and  

[00:00:20] Juan Granados:

in first one in like three weeks. Yeah, yeah. So we haven't actually done a podcasting. Maybe even four weeks. Maybe even four weeks. Yeah. We haven't done Amusing   or Meandering.   Kyrin's been flying the flag for the Mere Mortalites,   here. For the for the book reviews and for the Book reviews, for the mere mortals, mere morphies, of course.   We've had a gap for here. So apologies for those at home for the two week gap. Correct. For those who are between live, which we have, you know, some, on at the moment. We see you there. Who Who are listening afterwards, you know? Thank you for,   if you're wondering where we go. Well, we did talk about it a little bit pre it actually happening. And so, you know, if you're a long time listener, you know what's going on. But yes, there is a slightly new look if you're looking at the actual video as well. We're in a new location. The solar panels of Brisbane in the Correct, correct. I'm actually trying to pull this this wide down and I,   I think it's like the limit. I think that's actually the limit of it to go down because there's no more on the top. So we'll see, we'll see what we can actually do. There used to be curtains here but we moved the curtains away to another room. In any case, the mere mortal lights, here at the immortals we talk about effective philosophy,   pretty deep conversations with a light hearted touch. We got meanderings today. It is a more so I put it as a musings but maybe I can read Well No. We'll keep it meanderings and I'll just change it afterwards. Okay. Okay. In any case, it's a little bit about I guess what's been going on as of late. There's a particular word was two words but there's one particular word that's come up in a lot of conversations as of late which is equanimity.  

I'll help describe sort of what that is.   But I might I think it'd be worth for the for the mere mortals at home if you're listening   baseline, you know, where are we up to at the moment?   Basically,   sort of mentioned it finally moved home. I'm in a new location.   So that obviously just takes up if you, if you've moved home and not there do I know about it, have moved plenty of times.   So it does take quite a bit of time to obviously do the move in time to setting up. So   moved two weeks ago   but today,   sorry, the last   four days, let's just say, have been proper days where it's actually unpacked. I'm able to walk around without   kind of going, oh yeah, I've got to go do this. I've got to go do that. So it was kind of prime time to be able to do this particular podcast. I was away   last weekend down in Canberra to go see a good friend of ours. So lots of life has been lived as of late. Oh yeah. Plus besides keeping up with the usual work stuff. So that's been  

[00:02:47] Kyrin Down:

on my side of things. Yeah. I don't think for you it's really changed all that much. No. So I went down, visited the family in my dad's side of family in Sydney. So that was at the March.   Yep. So that was that was one week where I was away.   Since then,   no, just   it's funny how life, I guess, just fills in the gaps   in some case. So, you know,   my regular routine of going to yours for the Sundays was broken for like three weeks.   And   yeah, those Sundays just filled up, I filled up the stuff.   Like just just general things just like training. I don't feel like I've done anything extra. You know, I've,   I have done a bit of extra research on like travel stuff. But   not certainly not like  

[00:03:33] Juan Granados:

ten hours worth. Well, that's like it's a challenging thing when people often say, you know, if you reduce your phone usage like your social media time from   three hours a day down to one hour a day, it's like, wow, imagine what you could do for like two hours.  

[00:03:48] Kyrin Down:

Default, though, is that you end up filling them up with just other random shit. You don't even realize I think the thing that I filled it up with was stuff that I wanted to do.   But it was just   so for me, a bunch of it has been crypto related things actually. And   I've just been looking at a lot of NFT related things.   And   that and actually spending time on chain,   sending transactions, trying out new things,   which has been really fun. I have enjoyed doing that. And   that was stuff that I just didn't really have time for. So for example,   there's a little strategy   I'm thinking of doing, which   kind of involves two of the favorite family pastimes here at the new models, which is gambling and,   and arbitraging at the same time. So there is a case where you could do   use something like poly market and then a new chain like abstract, which has new related   things on it, little   gambling,   well, prediction markets,   gambling, definitely.  

And you could do each way bets like my brother used to do on the on the racehorses or whatever on doesn't really matter what it is do each way bets   with   a kind of, you know, you end up losing a tiny little bit of money from it. But in this case, you would potentially be getting some airdrop farming or something like that. And so you could do these kind of things where it's like you're doing this stuff in the hopes of like a different type of payout. So   you're it's fine. I wonder how much metrics of life is like this where it's like people looking at GDP numbers, or people looking at   import export numbers, or people looking at whatever.  

And it's just people playing games like this, where they're like, I can do this, I can do the opposite side over here. And somehow there's a clause in a contract or   externality   unrelated to these two things where you can end up making money. And so   I just wonder how much economic activity is complete   and utter bullshit. Oh, that'd be a lot. And I think it would be a lot. There'd be a lot and even there'd be  

[00:06:00] Juan Granados:

a lot that people   think it isn't, but actually underlying   is, you know, where you actually think like, oh, I am putting all these sorts into it and we've got this predictive model that gives me that. But again, you know, cut that all the down, you know, average it out, maybe run it against another system where you're not doing any of that and you kind of get like similar, if not maybe slightly better. So it's like, yeah. Yeah. Here's really any improvement. I was really good. Here's another one. So  

[00:06:26] Kyrin Down:

with the VeeFriends,   which we talked about, what, like, two months ago, the VeeFriends cards and collecting of things. I bought a whole bunch of boxes.  

[00:06:35] Juan Granados:

And Juan tried to I tried to could not. Could not you Gary Vee. Yeah, fuck.  

[00:06:40] Kyrin Down:

And unfortunately, Juan's economically worse off for that because the price of these boxes is rocketed.   And I'm actually thinking like, oh, potentially, you know, they're getting shipped here to Australia, but I'm gonna be resold it back to The US.   So so it would just be like a whole bunch of like useless,   useless wasted shipping.  

[00:07:03] Juan Granados:

Almost,   you know, I mean, you can have you can have this has got to be so many   things. You can't expect it to be, you know, making money straight from the get go but you could have been like, oh look, just hold it in like   a post box or something in The US and then resell it from that location as opposed to having to incur the fees but   you know, who's denied if you're obviously if it goes down for whatever reason then you end up losing even more. But that's  

[00:07:28] Kyrin Down:

just some of the little fun things that have been side diversion.  

[00:07:33] Juan Granados:

So family, family stuff, gambling.  

[00:07:36] Kyrin Down:

Gambling and buying JPEGs. Gambling and JPEGs for current. So that's been on his side. So yeah,  

[00:07:42] Juan Granados:

look, that's kind of like where we've been. What does it look like? Well, unfortunately me and water lines over the next couple of   weeks at least you will see us back into a   general cadence. In fact, it'll be exactly You're going away next week. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. So next week I'm gonna be away,   but I will commit to try and and put out a particular episode for next week. And I will do a monthly goals that'll come out. Oh, sorry. Yes. Correct. We'll do a monthly goals, which we'll do live shortly.   We also,   after in a couple of weeks, both myself and Karen are going to be away in some travels. Correct. So   there's going to be a big chunk basically. It will fit like two more episodes in and then and then it's going to be free for all. Yeah. And unlike unlike I hate seeing this, unlike   the Tom Billy Hughes and a few others out there,   who will   replay any of the old stuff and bring it up. I just don't want to do that. I,   I purposely when I see replays like that, even if they're   the most replayed and everyone I've seen a lot do it, Tim Ferriss does it a few others,   Man, I just don't like I never really listened to it. I've seen ones where they  

[00:08:48] Kyrin Down:

delay publishing by a month   or more. And   it's just out of date already. And even if it's not a even if it's meant to be like a timeless topic, it still feels like you're kind of getting gypped. It's like, oh, man, this is like a month old. Yeah,   this is stuff that was, you know, would have been on his thought. Because a lot of times I think when you tune into people, you are wanting to hear, oh, shit, Juan's moved house or Kyren's been doing this. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And so if you're getting it a month late, it let alone like two or three, then I think there's a big part. So going adjacent here, but there's a big part around  

[00:09:23] Juan Granados:

the trend of AI, the trend of automation,   where   no matter, so we talked about this a couple of months ago, where   I think eventually there's going to be products where they can create your own stories or your own whatever.   And things will be   easy and you'll be able to you want him to follow it up.   But even in myself now I still want to follow the persona   of someone that I'm listening to. And yes, the material I might be able to just get as easily through touch gpt or some other form.   But it's in like following that particular person saying it that is relevant and you know where they're off to in life and a few other things which so I can see   how even for hours the more relevant it is in terms of the podcast that we're releasing the better it is for people who are consuming it. I also notice that when I'm listening to Chris Willington, he will often record   five or six you know in a week and he'll do that for three weeks straight and he'll delay and release them and sometimes you'll listen to a podcast and it'll be like oh it's in February and we're in April. It's like what the hell it was but you know it literally just got released a couple of days ago but it is that late in its releasing schedule, I guess I'd say so not super fantastic. One thing  

[00:10:40] Kyrin Down:

I want to give us his pat on the back, myself and for one is   I feel consistency, you know, if one, if we've really recorded something, it gets released pretty quick. The only thing that would have maybe changed for that was when we were doing   so many episodes, all   this is where I'm talking like two book reviews a week,   a conversation,   a mere mortals episode, another amusing and meandering. So we're doing like one day one day that   was when scheduling wise, we might have had an episode conversation or two that   were was like two weeks or three weeks delayed max.  

But   there was   a one of the crypto things I've been following recently was his steady lads podcast   Steady Lads. Which is taken from the Steady Lads Do Kwon quote.   And it's just a bunch of guys who follow a lot of the news and mostly it's for the memes. Like they've got really funny memes   related to current events.   And   they the recent episode a couple of days ago, we're like, you know, we're gonna stop doing it weekly. We're up to ninety two weeks in a row.   And kudos to them. Ninety two weeks in a row is really hard. But I'm also like,   rookies, you know, you gotta you gotta up those numbers.  

We're getting close to 500.   The   my motivation for   you know, even though it's we will have, you know, disturbances,   especially whilst traveling.   I'm 100% sure when we're both back here in August,   we're just gonna get back into the weekly schedule again. And it's not going to be an issue at all. So even though   you know, we might not have an episode every single week,   we'll have, you know, 40   plus a year. No, yeah, easily. Yeah.  

[00:12:34] Juan Granados:

And I think it's   now because I'm just thinking,   if you've done let's just say   ten twenty weeks and ten fifteen weeks in a row.   If you took a couple of weeks off, I could see how   getting back into it   might be slightly more difficult because the time you take away is   20%   of the total time that you've been spending it. But now, yeah for us at the mere mortals we've   been quite consistent let's say above 90% consistency   for five plus years   and even if we take you know a good chunk of time away a month   that is just a tiny little drop right it's one sixtieth of the time that we've spent actually doing it but there is very little effort to just get back to the same cadence it's now very ingrained and enough to do for sure. So one, so the words, two words, but I'll start with the first word that has been happening at the observatory. It's been   nice, it's not taking a step back from the podcast, but in that   not having it be a demand on my life, especially all the things that I've been doing again, call them out,   not having the demand of the podcast was really nice and it,   I wouldn't suggest that it was the fact that it wasn't there,   but I came to find this equanimity is,   is it equanimous?  

Equanimous.   Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's actually a word. I think we can. I found equanimity. I found equanimity and there was this beautiful,   this beautiful transcendence where   there were it's probably because I was spending   so much effort. There was so much eating glass type of events around   trying to buy a new place and how do we list the old place? Hurricane at the same time. Yeah, everything. Everything all at the same time. So, no. So we're still preparing a lot of the stuff for the wedding, all this sort of stuff. Wedding, of course, yep. So like all that concentrated in one was it was stressful, there was just a lot of   no downtime.  

It's one of the typical you say, oh, I'm busy. I'm always busy. There's always things to do. And really over the last two weeks, it's actually since we moved in and then plus a couple of days from unpacking and doing all of that,   it sort of settled into this equanimity feeling where it's and,   specifically because there's another word that I'll say about it. So equanimity is   calm and balanced state of mind,   especially   in difficult situations. So that's that especially in difficult situations.   And I did find that way. It's now not like   the haven't taken off the pedal, my foot off the pedal too much. You know, I'm still pursuing things with work. And I've talked about to you and a few other friends have I've got this other business idea that's something I really like. I've got a lot of this idea.  

You know, I'm still, you know, looking up to things. I've even gone be I've gotten harder into my training and into running. So there's   challenging states   there but   I have this feeling now of I'm quite it feels really balanced like all of these challenges that are coming up I'm able to do and handle   fairly easily. Again, it's not super easy because it's challenging, there's some challenge to it. I'm taking it in my stride so that has felt like fantastic. That has felt like really really good.   Now the addition of the podcast which we're we're doing right now, this is the first time I'm doing the podcast in a new place. I go, it still feels   easy. You know, there was still like lots of setup in a new place.  

We haven't run into too much issues just yet. It's been a little bit of a power surge and whatnot, but you know, it's kind of like running fine. So that's good. I mean, like we would take  

[00:15:56] Kyrin Down:

easily twenty minutes to set up at your old place. We did this one in 30 and  

[00:16:00] Juan Granados:

you know, this is completely new room. So. Yeah, like we pretty yeah, we weren't sure where we're like setting up. So hopefully it becomes   a faster paced thing as well. But what you'll see is   and I guess how I'm describing it the the new plays the   maybe the less   strain on the mind from having all these other things happening which for sure that that is a big thing. I think now I'm sitting in like yeah I feel there's this equanimity,   within me or on the way that I act in things.   I would I would probably have a guess that I haven't felt that in a good   three years. Alright, let's say three years where where it's this like   easily crystal clear mind.  

Maybe there has been   off times where   I get into like a really really solid state of mind and I'm thinking and I'm pursuing something and I'm really really connected with what I'm doing but over a day   there's some sort of challenge or grief or stress or something else that kind of takes me away and it doesn't I couldn't say whether the day was full of equanimity.   But now the last couple of days for sure like from I think I might have messed up this like literally from waking up in the morning to go into bed it's like wow that was just   like an unbelievably good day even though there was our challenges and you still got into some debates about this or whatever else   At the end, there was a really quick return back to not just normal, but like a good high baseline.  

So, you know, I don't know what to put it to. I don't know if it's,   you know, the new environment   or life. It's, you know, the   lowering of all of those stressful moments,  

[00:17:38] Kyrin Down:

all that sort of stuff. I'm not entirely, totally certain.   I'm kind of   becoming a proponent of the idea of you having phases in your life or being able to chunk it into distinct.   This is what I was doing here. This is what I was like, and then   it's not like immediate switch over, but you can then go like, okay, and then, you know, there was this period. So for me,   high school, very distinct period, university,   distinct, although I was still say I was largely the same person, they're coming then out into like work. So a lot for me is based on location.   So I remember really well based on like, you know, this year, I was in this place doing this thing around this time.  

Now, obviously, I don't have the savant memory of going down to the individual day and hour, but I can largely recall like, oh, yeah, this is I remember this is what I was like, as a person back then is where I'd be spending my time largely when I was doing things.   And yeah, so I'd say, you know,   coming from   when I was at the end of my Brazil trip, so that was pretty hectic. So it was like one month in Brazil, One Month back in Australia for one month passed   a couple of months, another month in Brazil, then in The US, then in Brazil again. And   right towards the end of that, when I was kind of starting to feel homesick, I miss hanging out with you hanging out with other friends.  

Hanging out with my brother, my dad.   All of that time, I came into this kind   of Zen like,   excited state of like, our   Yeah, I'd say   equanimity was a decent word for it, which was very peaceful. So, okay, you know,   this era of my life is over the era of, you know, mum being sick. And so now it's, you know, what's the next one going to be? And what can I make of it? Like how I   was, you know, young, naive and hopeful, like, oh, my God, you know, life's gonna be, you know, so amazing. I was kind of it was it was almost like when you're motivated.   But I also know myself and know, okay, I'm not going to stay this motivated in three or four months time, I'm probably gonna go change again, just just be like doing my regular thing. So   enjoy those moments where it does feel really nice and calm. Because I certainly for me, it doesn't stay like this. Correct. The idea of Nirvana of finding   the you know, the Buddha, the Bodhi tree,   he does all of his work, and then he finds enlightenment. And then it's just from then on out, it's even if he goes through tough times, he's still got this inner peace.  

I,  

[00:20:18] Juan Granados:

I personally have not found that in any portion of my Well, and this comes to the other person. I think there's more the topic I wanted to discuss as our I guess musings   for today, which was   last couple of days, I did feel that   equanimity,   that state of being where I'm feeling peaceful, I'm fearing it,   mindful, I'm feeling present. There wasn't a lot of future focused or past sort of reflections.   However,   I did completely understand   that this too shall pass   in that   this will settle into the baseline   at some point or other   and it's going to become   something else will come up where it's a little inconvenience and then that will become the new thorn where right now everything's real shiny, everything's working well. So that's going to happen. And then I saw this other word that a guy Anthony who's I've had on the podcast, posted up and it made me   question that very same thing that you're saying. Have you heard of Ataraxia?  

I have not. I can tell it for people at home, a t a   R A XIA.   I feel like I've heard it, but I wouldn't be able to describe it. Yeah, it's this is probably one of those things. It's like a Tim Ferriss one. I've heard people say it before and I'll just forget it after a month. There's probably gonna be the same and there's a reason why you forget it because for me, I don't know if I truly believe this is possible.   Same thing with Buddha, ataraxia, state   of serene calmness and freedom   from emotional disturbance or anxiety.   So   yes, it's serene calmness, freedom, but it's freedom from emotional disturbance. And   out of me   thinks, was that even a human? Like, what do you mean complete freedom from emotional disturbance? I don't know. I don't even know if I want that. Because to me, it sort of reads out as you're wanting to be not disturbed by sadness or anger, but also not by happiness and joy.  

And I gotta go, I think it's a it's all bullshit.   It's you might aim for that but I don't want to aim for that. That seems like a little bit of an inconvenience   path. It feels like you're not tuned into the world connected. Again, you saw my daughter today just like running around.   It's like, I'm like, you know what, I want to be like emotionally connected to that sort of state. I don't want to be neutral or pulled away. No, I want to be connected into the world and with that   will come and will bring the phone on the side and it will bring the inconvenience beyond the baseline. That is going to be annoying. Yeah. But the benefits or the position that I can't put myself in will be more helpful and I'll prefer to have all those joys come with the inconveniences that it brings. So it kind of makes it, I'll point to you the question.   Say you have equanimity,   not we're not even in the middle like equanimity is like off down here and like really really good then you've got this atraxa it's like all the way to the end of the art of the stream.  

Is it worth   trying to go beyond equanimity towards even closer to that atraxa? Do you think it would be helpful for you to go to achieve that? Is it even helpful to aim for equanimity?   In what you've seen and experienced in life? I think for myself, no, but  

[00:23:23] Kyrin Down:

I've read a fair few Buddhist books. And   there are a certain category of people   who   I think no matter what   their their experience of life is so   emotionally disturbing that they   they're chasing. And I'm   always kind of thinking of the   that was a Tim Ferriss type word ataraxia.   And I think of people like him where he,   he can have all of the success, you know, we're playing his fucking card game just before. Yep.   And that's just a small venture   on his part. And   he always seems to be   the type where   I'd really like to spend just   ten hours with him to see what he's like, because when he's on the podcast,   collected,   very thoughtful type individual, but the things that he says about himself,   of   dealing with intense anger   of   the depressions, the ups and downs,   you don't see that side of him   on the public facing aspect.  

And so I think people like that him, you know, is, is that end goal of of the   ataraxia   actually possible?   I think it is I think you could probably   meditate your state yourself into a state of kind of   numbness   in a way.   I imagine that there's people out there who have done that. Probably some people in jail, because what else are you going to do in jail? Certainly some Buddhist monks seem to have   something that   will appear like that. Now,   is that a good thing? Because then you can't feel the joy? You know,   I don't want that I want to be able to do what we were talking about just beforehand.  

You can put a $2 bet   on a ridiculous multi   so so that when you watch something you already enjoy in one case f1   and then be like hoping that this ridiculous odds thing that is almost certainly not going to happen. But if it does happen, like, holy shit, that's gonna be fucking awesome.   I want to feel that. And yeah, the   the aspect   of of life is I guess,   trying to,   what would you say, like maximize   or   at least remember   the really good stuff. I'm reading a book at the moment on   it's called A Primer for Forgetting. It's by Lewis Hyde.   And he's the guy who wrote Common as Air, which was all about   IP law,   copyright and things like this. And he's   really, really good writer, but his writing style I really enjoy.  

And he's making the case at the moment of why forgetfulness   and forgetting is actually a good thing. And you can   look at, you know, some aspects of history like the Spartans.   When there was this   tyrant, the 30 Tyrants took over.   They're basically, you know, sorry, not Sparta, Athens,   Athens had these 30 Tyrants, like,   take over their democracy.   And they were   stealing people's stuff, they were doing all of these injustices to people like   killing a husband, and then not letting him be buried properly   stealing the stuff like gold earrings from his wife and and things like   this. And eventually they got overthrown. But then it's like, okay, you know, them, their friends still constitute a large portion of of Athens. And because Athens was   like 100,000 people or something at the time, you know, it's probably really, really small.  

What what do we do? How do we get over this? How do we integrate them back into culture? Because   if we just have   continual vengeance   of,   okay, well, these tyrants, his brother did this to my   sister-in-law,   you're just gonna have continued violence. And so they he was saying, you know, they had this kind of deal of, okay, we have to forget all of the past sins and just get on with our lives. And then he's making other cases of why you'd want to forget certain memories of your life or things like this. And I'm like, Oh, yeah. You know, what if a good life is actually one where you have just as much good, just as much bad, but you just forget   all the most   or like the most terrible. Yeah. But perhaps the most terrible or perhaps the least useful stuff, you know, certainly   you can learn a lot through   having a bad moment of, you know, you behave really badly and it's like, okay, well, I should probably remember that. So I don't do that again. But,   you know, if you got into a random car crash and   suffered punctured lung for a year,   is it really helpful remembering that not not saying that? Like,   forget that. I thought that was a kind of cool concept where   if you had the option,   it sounds like you probably don't want to try and numb yourself to everything. But if you had the option to  

[00:28:20] Juan Granados:

select  

[00:28:22] Kyrin Down:

selectively forget, yeah, would you would you try and go down this route? Say it was a mental   path of like, you know, mental memories. He talks about memory palaces and things like that as well. So imagine you could do a memory palace technique, but instead of   remembering  

[00:28:37] Juan Granados:

like forgetting, like it's forgetting. Yeah. Okay. That's interesting.   Would you do that if you I would. No, I don't know. But then again, I probably haven't looked into the concept of like forgetfulness in itself that deeply. So maybe, maybe you would. I don't know if I can get like, after like really  

[00:28:53] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Because then you'd you know, there's   one memory I have,   is probably the closest I've come to dying in a certain   aspect, which was, I was driving from   Brisbane to   Emerald,   Inland Queensland. So I was, you know, on single lane roads each way passing by B doubles, which for those who don't know, are just   really long trucks,   transporting grain or whatever.   And I overtook one on this curve, and I really shouldn't have. And then I, you know, I'm going 140   ks's an hour trying to overtake this thing that's fucking like twenty, thirty meters long, however long it is. And I'm just realizing if a car is coming the opposite way, I'm so dead. I'm   like, I'm, I'm dying.  

That person's probably dying.   You know, and I think back of that, right? Every time I do, it's just like, oh, yeah, it's that shiver of   man, am I lucky to be here? What if I had died? You know,  

[00:29:53] Juan Granados:

the Would you wish would you wish you would forget that? See, maybe because  

[00:29:58] Kyrin Down:

it certainly for that particular instance,   I will not do that again.   But I'm sure I'll do something equally stupid while driving, which   is not related to that. So is that particular thing going to help me?   I'm not sure.   Yeah, it certainly causes me enough grief when I remember you think about telling it now is not so bad. But it's when it comes up in my mind when I'm just, you know, about to go to sleep or just another random thing happens.  

[00:30:26] Juan Granados:

You're like, Oh, damn. Yeah. Because I've had like something similar to that. And   because as you were saying that story, I go,   Yeah, if I was to   forget that, then you kind of lose whatever learning that was embedded in that unless you could somehow magically keep the learning that what will be the actual   very, very similar. I think we're coming back from   somewhere out west in Brissy. We're camping   and we were going around. It was a hind stem. Pretty sure it was.   And it's the kangaroo.   Yeah, correct. No, it wasn't kangaroo that I hit, but I was going around. I went around a parking   lot on this one. Yeah. And this particular truck was going fairly slow. There was enough space to kind of get out of the way. I was like, I'll just go around it. And at that exact point,   the   road sort of dropped down and the truck picked up speed. That meant I had to go around this truck even faster.  

And then for whatever reason, either I can't remember if it's, I just didn't know that the turn was coming up or that's where the dam was. But then we had turned left basically at the end of this road and the road would have been a kilo maybe less than a kilometer and so it was just as fast as you could around this truck   get back in front and then hit the brakes hard to be able to like basically drift around the corner and damn.   And I still think about that. I don't I don't think and this is the interesting thing. I don't really think about that and go like, oh, like, oh my god. It could have happened.   I more think about it in the sense of   damn I'm in those situations I'm gonna know not to do that. So there's   I remember the learning I don't necessarily remember it. That's when you go terrible for it. So that's why I'm like I don't know if I forget that and then I was trying to think of like really terrible moments I guess that   technically should be terrible and I'm a   weird human folks me more like I'm a weird human so you might say you know I wasn't   I wasn't technically bullied. That's I was never bullied. I can probably say Henalhart I wasn't bullied at least that I knew, right? But again, when I was young, I didn't speak English from where here in Australia. And so I was just I was like the loner. I was very much the loner just sort of sitting off to the side watching people. I remember play cricket and play. I didn't know what cricket was. I was like what they're doing? So they were playing cricket or playing tennis. I wasn't talking to anybody and you would think   man that would be a really sad childhood and I'd be all these things.  

No. No way. I was just like, oh, cool. That's what it is. And so for a long time, I remember, like, I've I've had this conversation with a couple of people and   this again cut it to the side. There's a concept of of of confidence   or the concept of   everyone would recognize this   not believing in themselves that well or just not being confident about a particular thing   and don't get me wrong I do feel that sometimes I certainly do. Usually what I feel that is when I finish   a contract, let's just say for work for whatever reason and I've got to find a new contract. In that little gap of space   always comes up in my mind like is it going to be really hard? Am I not going to have the relevant skills qualifications? I need to get another one and every time I find something and it's like, why do you not worry about it? That does come up for me. So I'm gonna say it's never.  

But   besides that and maybe a few other, I don't feel that feeling of people when that whenever they try to describe the like I didn't have the confidence to do this or Like imposter syndrome. That's that's one I've never   understood. Well, so basically, I mean like that for imposter syndrome. I have that for the for the concept of of confidence in a lot of times. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I I don't I don't   that doesn't equate me. I think that's part of how I just grew up as being a kid. And   the fact that I had to be very observant actually found out this is another tidbit in one night at home, I found out about myself because I went,   why do I find myself being   good at   this all came with this equanimity state, right, which I think is what it's,   you'll see what my final sort of call out on this is, but I think it's good to to get equanimity at some places in life because one of these like crystal this day you know I was just like chilling out having a mimosa midday type of day. So I was like yeah yeah just thinking to my knowledge you know what I think the reason I'm really good   at speaking to people or just being confident to engage with different types of individuals for whatever reason   was built up around that time when I couldn't speak English. And why? Because I just sat there and watched   everyone   do everything. I didn't talk. So it would have been   maybe a good like two years where I just watched humans   without talking   and just sitting back and listening.  

And I reckon the bit that I picked up the most was how to be a chameleon.   That's what I picked up and I think that's what I discovered in myself. And what I mean by that when I as I kept on growing up whether I went into a islander group to do gym or have conversations with people at school, go into the workplace, go and talk to executives,   go talk to whoever.   I tend to   be like a chameleon and I can shift my   way of acting or interacting very similar to whatever group it is that I'm doing without notice like I that was very   I mean I didn't   it was very unconsciously I was doing that and now I see that very consciously and if I let it go it like again I'm not like actively being like oh good like act like this but I will pick myself doing that and go   oh okay yeah I see that I see that and I think it came from that sort of position. And again, that's really cool. Being in equanimity, I think allows you to think some of these thoughts. But yeah, I see that. I kind of gonna go, you know, I was in a group where we didn't really have that many islanders,   you know, in our school and I didn't hang out with them that much. But then somehow after school in particular days   I would go and work out with islanders and I would speak like them and I'd be interacting with them and I'd just be like one of them. So it was very quick and it wasn't me you know trying to do something about it. I think it was just learning and observing with people.  

But   equanimity   and ataractia.   So   I, when I saw that one of the other things that came to mind was   I think   looking at the that ataractia   or maybe that Buddhist's   view of just complete you know, bliss.   It's   challenging   to not a 9.9%   of all humans. I don't think it is   a wise thing to aim for. Why?   I pair it up with almost like aiming for being you want to be the richest person on earth. That's kind of how I equate it. Why? Because   one, it's so so supremely rare that that's going to happen.   When   you aim for something like that, it then also becomes really easy for something else to assert but for whatever reason. So if you say like I've reached ataraxia,   there's probably something else that will come up of   billions of things that could that all of a sudden, oh no, actually it isn't because of this little thing and then you have to pursue it one more time. It just becomes   such an extreme that   seems   nebulous to quantify or qualify   but it's like it's it's not really even a goal but that that doesn't sound to me like a goal that's actually prosperous to aim for. Even even if it's like I want to reach that. No, because I'd say saying I want to become the richest person on earth. I don't that's not   the the most well informed   perhaps intent of a goal. I think that would be a challenging thing.  

However,   the equanimity piece even then   I wouldn't, at least personally, I don't think it would be a great thing for me to say I want to have this equanimity   forever, all the time in my life   because   I know   full well that again something's gonna happen on my side issue argument something's gonna work plan is gonna land late whatever   and I'm gonna be frustrated I'm gonna get annoyed and I will be slightly more annoyed if I then go to myself like   I didn't reach equanimity today because this bloody thing. So yeah, you know my natural reaction might be like well I'll just take it away. No more flights anymore. No more this. And I also think that's that's an incorrect   experience of life. What I kind of landed on was   last couple of   days love this like equanimity feeling.  

It just feel really at peace   and a lot of the notes that I've been taking has really really been wonderful. I know this is going to end at some particular point. That's totally fine. But what I want to do is   have all of the tools and the tricks and the tips that you need to   live the   arduous life that is the usual. That's like the usual. Have all your tips and tricks and whatever else happens upon it where you have to like, I'm gonna get this done by 9PM. Or shit is a really challenging run and I've got to get into it and whatnot or a whole day of something else comes up and you need to just   have have the anti fragility,   have the right confidence,   have the right experience, whatever to do it. And then when you've got these   equanimity type of days, weeks, months, whatever   then and specifically then just have the skill set of being able to be like okay I can be present. I can be present. I can be there. I can actually enjoy it   with the full knowledge that it will again end and so then you can be forever actually present through those actual times.  

I think that way of looking at   it much better, much better as a mere mortal.   And   I think moving forward, I'm gonna less by the view or the sale that might be put up by   really strong views towards Yeah, you can be   live a full equanimity   or full life without any stresses and whatnot.   Just go,   Yeah, I don't want that. Yeah. Even if you even if you are selling and I can achieve it. Yeah.   There's not for me. There's some level of stress or some level of   arduous tasks that you want to do, because it's kind of like what you were talking about forgetting.   Unless you're pushing some boundaries, you're not going to be really like learning or experiencing much of life. And it kind of becomes pretty boring conversation to have think it's about caring as well. So  

[00:40:21] Kyrin Down:

I look at myself, most people would probably say like, I'm a I'm a calm individual.   And   that's   stuff I've heard described about me before. I'm like, Yeah, you know what, that that's correct. And   in a way, I'm very non reactive   as well. So if something happens, like I'm not immediately   like one, I would say is a reactive,   right? If something happens, it's gonna be like, alright, we'll do this. And you also move on from things a lot quicker.   Talk about like a new website at some point. But I remember you were talking about the blog. And then my brother was doing some stuff and he couldn't make it work. And I was like,   it's alright, I'll tell Juan,   you'll he'll ask about the blog, I'll say, Nah, couldn't do it. And he'll just move on instantly.  

And that is exactly what happened.   But the difference, I guess, between equanimity and non reactive as well as,   you know, am I have I found equanimity if someone's talking about politics,   and I'm, you know, giving off these peaceful like,   I don't really you know, I don't know, I don't particularly care type fives that equanimity.   No, it's I just don't give a shit shit. And true. The   I think that can be a thing where it's   could be slightly confusing. And,   you know, that could also be a way of of   finding equanimity   is,   I would argue a wrong way is by, okay, you know, let's say I deeply care about   finding a partner in life or something like this.  

But I'm, I'm struggling with that I'm not   reaching what I want. Okay, I'll just   convince myself that it actually doesn't matter to me. And therefore I'll be calm, sure. But you know, then you're missing out on a lot of what life has to offer.   Case in point.   At the gym yesterday, there was a girl she was giving me some eyes. I kind of like looked at her a little bit as well. Yep.   We didn't cross paths in our actual training.   And she eventually went up on the treadmills.   Stair climbers.   I finished my session. I was like, Okay, well, now's the time to if you want to go talk to her, like, now's the time.   And   I was feeling rather peaceful myself. I'm like, Okay, well,   how could I do this? You know, I can go up behind her and ask her a question related to something that she was doing, which I have done before.  

And I remember the girl afterwards, she we got along fine now. And I was,   this is a different one.   Exact same scenario, right?   And she was just like, she actually felt bad. She was like, Oh, you you were chatting with me. But I was like,   literally two meters higher than you on this treadmill and talking down at you sort of deal. And I was like, Yeah, well, you know, it's my fault for approaching you like that. So I was like, Okay, well, what I could do is just get up on the one next to her and then trunk up a conversation.   Once again, it would have to be very direct because there is six other  

[00:43:20] Juan Granados:

free ones. She's right on the end. So it'd be very obvious. Kind of like going to the next of the year and all of the other guys. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.  

[00:43:27] Kyrin Down:

Striking, you know, holding a stick for him. Hell, I'm here to help you out.   And I didn't end up doing it. I chickened out. Okay. And,   you know, as I'm walking out as I'm then in the car ride,   I'm, I'm kind of like beating myself up a little bit. Because it's like,   in Kyron, you know, these are the type of opportunities that you want. And you probably should, you know, the more chances you have at bat,   she could have been the love of your life, but you won't know now because you never chatted with her.   And I said to myself, like, Okay, well,   I can find a way of   playing this off and being like, this one doesn't really matter, you know, it would have been an awkward   situation, no matter what you would have to, you know, even if   you were the most confident ever,   I would have happened to have been a very different person, like have extreme confidence to be able to go up and do that,   which is not a default state of mind. And   I was thinking like, Okay, well, you can find a way of   getting rid of this in a sense of not feeling bad of just being like, think about something else or, you know, trying to find equanimity in this situation and beating yourself up. But   I think it's actually like,   okay,   it's kind of good that you're feeling bad now. Because   this is a thing where you do want to improve on, you do want to   be able to chat with people,   basically, at any time, you do want to get over these fears of   social awkwardness or a weird situation that   isn't   necessarily real. Sometimes it can be real. But you know, I could have chatted with her and she could have been cool with it and still actually wanted to she probably did because she we're trading glances in the gym. So   there's the aspect of   wanting   the bad stuff to be able to improve upon. And so like, this is where the monthly goals come in. This is where   doing hard stuff, even though   it's   painful. And,   you know, another example, I found out a girl I was chatting with,   already was dating someone. But   her friend was like, well, you know, she's just dating this guy. But I don't really know if they're a thing. I don't know, whatever.  

I said,   You know what, next time I see her, I'll ask her out anyway, even though   I already have this information that it's probably not going well. And sure, I did it. And she rejected me and said, I'm already dating this guy. It was like, okay, and that's what and that's just fine.   Nothing. The world didn't end.   I didn't you know, she didn't like poof.   How dare you spit on me?   Put up in the fucking head like, No, none of all the stupid shit that goes through your head happen. So   the  

[00:46:11] Juan Granados:

you know, you just get pointed out by like, just like,  

[00:46:17] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, no, none of that happened. So   these are the type of things where   I if you're chasing equanimity, if you're thinking about the subject,   yeah, I don't think it's   a certainly not for myself. And probably I would say for most people   is a thing to   run towards,   I would suggest   using   everyone loves good feelings. So good feelings are good. And it's only if you're, you know, becoming addicted to sex, and you're sleeping with all the wrong people, and you know, that sort of stuff where   chasing good is bad.   But   I would certainly be more of the opinion that   you want to feel things and   that equanimity is not   is not not feeling things. It's about how to respond to them afterwards or interpret them afterwards. And   look, at times, you're not going to get it right, you're going to get angry, you're going to   be annoyed because your dog comes up to you when you're trying to work on something. Can you shoo them away when you should actually just you know, play with them for a minute or something? So yeah, that that was kind of my general thoughts on Equanimity.  



[00:47:31] Juan Granados:

What was your summer? Well, it was Yeah, I guess some of for me was gonna say,   for   all the immortals,   you   go through life, and I think we   we understand life especially when it comes to the tail end of it   and you might think back at the experiences or the things that you actually end up doing and now we had to visit this or we did that,   but if you boil it away, if you want to look into the absolutes,   it's more that you're experiencing   whatever happens to some sort of emotion. So chemically that's   resulting in some sort of emotions or something that you feel like your brain thinks is an emotion and it might be happiness, it's sadness, it's joy, surprise.   When I hear that word of   emotional   sort of separation   and feel this stillness and no stress,   I then go, Yeah, but it's all of those things that then allow for what you then denote as a human to experience. That's that's you want to whether it's bad or good but without that emotional connection   I don't know if you can actually say you had a good experience it was just an experience because it's not tainted with humanity or it's just something's happened.  

So   that's why it kind of moves you away. And I think the effective philosophy meant for me is   don't chase   numbness or no feeling,   chase the ability to   be present when that equanimity,   that   equin   when the when the day fills it with equanimity or it feels like you're at peace with all the stress going on   find the skill sets to be able to be in it to be present   and then fully expect that you're going to get back into the fray   and   tool yourself up with the right stuff so you can just get into it and go cool. I'll be back here at some point and when I get back here, I'll enjoy it once again. Sure. I'm into that effect. Sounds sounds pretty good. I think mere mortals will leave it there. I'm gonna bring up just the boost room lounge as well. We didn't do it at the middle, but I'll do it here at the end. Now you are able to support us through a valley for valley model. That is an ability for you to send through some boost to grams directly to us here at  

[00:49:34] Kyrin Down:

the mere mortals podcast. I don't think there was any. You can do that on a modern podcasting app. Probably the best one to go to at the moment is Fountain. That's certainly the easiest. If you're a more advanced user, try out something like True Fans, Podcast Guru, Podverse, Custom Matic, Curacaster.   It's a whole bunch of apps where you can do this.   Yet look, we've been away. We've missed a whole bunch. We've been inconsistent. And so I feel that this   is what happens when you do that. So   probably more of that to come   in the in the next couple of months.  

But we very much do appreciate   support. We even forgot to do boost grams in the middle of the episode like we normally do. So yeah. Was there any other comments as well that we on? No, I did I did see Cole coming up live. I did see Pat coming up live and joining us. So very much thank you for the two of them. Hopefully our dulcet tones lulled Cole to sleep. I know he was he was looking for that. Correct.   Yeah, live episodes.   We'll be we will be doing them live, but   timing wise over the next couple of weeks and especially whilst we're both traveling, so from   May, mid May for me,   late May for one through to   July   sometime   is going to be very haphazard. Yeah, very haphazard. So letting you know that upfront. Yeah. Look, there's gonna be something But you will get some great stuff. Like, there's gonna be a live podcast coming from Greece. Yeah. That'll be that'll be a real be a live podcast coming from Hoskie headquarters in Poland.  



[00:51:04] Juan Granados:

Yeah. There'll be it'll be less content. But I do dare say that the quality   or the type of engagement of of conversation is gonna be very, very ridiculous.  

[00:51:14] Kyrin Down:

They're gonna be they're gonna be   episodes,   non normal episodes. Yeah. Let's put them that way. Pretty special. Special episodes. Yeah.  

[00:51:22] Juan Granados:

Okay. Look, we'll do that more than less. Thank you very much. I did see there's more than a handful of people listening live. So I really appreciate that. For those who are those who aren't writing their name in the chat, we would love if you do. But  

[00:51:34] Kyrin Down:

thank you very much for joining the monthly goals that's coming up. This is   going to be a prerecorded one. So we'll be doing that live right now after this, but it'll be coming out a week later. Correct. This one  

[00:51:47] Juan Granados:

is going to be gallivanting about next weekend. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Out on the mountain somewhere. Mhmm. Be more than glad to leave it there. Thank you very much for tuning in. One out. Go right now. Bye. Bye.