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I'm a woman trapped in a man's body analysing dating advice for women given by a man.

In #505 of 'Meanderings', Juan and I discuss: three dating and relationships books (The New Rules, Get the Guy by Matthew Hussey and Attached), how prescriptive “rules” aimed at women can backfire, why some advice feels outdated (Facebook walls and BBM), how scarcity games tend to attract the very players you might want to avoid, why attachment styles are useful as a lens but less so as a to‑do list, a focus on authenticity over mere effectiveness, watch the influence of your friend circle, understand how strong male sexual drive can shape dating dynamics, apply Pareto principles to health and appearance first, build an interesting life (travel, skills, community) and learning to read yourself so you don’t try to fill loneliness with just anyone.

No boostagrams this week, very sad puppy.

Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortals

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:00:47) The books: The New Rules, Get the Guy & Attached
(00:04:21) Lot's of Don'ts
(00:07:12) Perfectionism and the hunt for Mr Right
(00:11:09) Who this attracts: playing games gets game players
(00:16:21) What men reportedly dislike
(00:20:25) Quick verdict on The New Rules & Switch To Matt Hussey
(00:25:48) Practical prompts: compliments, conversations, and friendly vibes
(00:30:15) Brief detour to Attached: anxious, avoidant, secure
(00:39:24) Boostagram Lounge
(00:41:15) Effectiveness vs authenticity: advice for daughters
(00:45:00) Masks, faking confidence and why acts won't last
(00:48:00) Be interesting: travel, stories and easy conversation openers
(00:55:14) Broad advice: the male mind, sex drive, and expectations
(01:02:26) Pareto squared: health and appearance
(01:07:09) A raw moment: walking through Brisbane and feeling loneliness
(01:11:24) Closing reflections 

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[00:00:06] Kyrin Down:

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of the mere mortals meanderings. We are live here. When are we live? Fourteenth. Fourteenth  

[00:00:13] Juan Granados:

December.  

[00:00:14] Kyrin Down:

I feel like that's someone's birthday that I should remember, but I've forgotten.   So happy birthday to that person. And we don't believe it's our friend Mansheel. I don't think. No, no, no, no. He's 20.   And   this is a live nine a. M. Australian Eastern Eastern Time on a Sunday as usual. This is where Juan and I get together and we talk about books.   We got a fat stack here, but no, this is a episode a little bit more lighthearted, a revolving around a certain topic. And today we're gonna teach you how to get the guy. We're gonna to teach you how to get the guy from the perspective. Well, yeah, from the perspective of females. How to get the girl. No, no, not necessarily. So I got three books here.   One, the new rules, the dating do's and don'ts for the digital generation.  

Ellie Fein Fine   and Sherry Schneider.   That is from two women on how   advice for women   to get in relationships and things like this. We've got get the guy by Matthew Hussey.   This is use the secrets of the male mind to find, attract and keep your ideal man. And this is from a guy. And that's from a guy for girls. And then I've got this one here. It's worth   slightly talking about, but it's not particularly about dating advice. Attached. Are you anxious, avoidant or secure? How the science of adult attachment can help you find and keep love, which is more about   relationships in general rather than advice for women on on how to get guys. So   it's probably only worth spending a tiny little bit of time on that one, but the other two are more interesting. So   where do you want to start off on? Where do you want to know?  

And   how much do you know about dating advice for women to get guys? Oh, a little bit like a tiny little bit.  

[00:01:57] Juan Granados:

The and I mean, the I'm assuming it's books like this, like the new rules. So females to female kind of was   the precursor or the initiation of the   whether you call it the self   was it like the self respect? But it's where the rules, and I'm assuming it's sort of like this, the rules around don't messes them too fast. You know, don't don't seem too too anxious. Create the mystery in the man in the man so that   you're a bit of a lust, lust for the mystery of it. Things like that. Like that's probably the main thing, but I do recall it being somewhere around   these sort of self help books where it came out or originated from and that leading into the social media is that's where that kind of vaped up. Mhmm. Yeah. I wouldn't even describe these as self help per se.  

How would you describe the the new rules one?  

[00:02:46] Kyrin Down:

You're right. So we'll jump into that.   There is some of the most unhinged   worst dating advice I've ever seen in this book. And we're I was telling one to prepare for this because  

[00:02:57] Juan Granados:

there was things like, you know, give me a give me an example of a really unhinged,  

[00:03:01] Kyrin Down:

unhinged, like the recommendation on this. The simple thing is just to simply read the rules. If you're  

[00:03:08] Juan Granados:

a female, like listening to this, you tell me if this is valid. Oh, yeah. We I definitely wanna know  

[00:03:14] Kyrin Down:

the   a female's perspective on a male's perspective on a female's perspective   on how to date. So,   you know, some of this is relatively generic and   the self help and dating   gets kind of mixed in together a lot of times where,   okay, you're   you're struggling to find someone or something.   One way to get better or do that is you improve yourself and then you're gonna find   a better match sort of thing.   I wouldn't say this is this, this   has almost zero   self help advice in it, other than   go to the gym and other rules for looking good at every age. That's, that's about it. But this is essentially a list of things that you should not do. So   the first couple will be a creature unlike any other look like a creature unlike any other. So that's their I don't know why they're calling themselves creatures. First of all, that's   a strong start. Not not something I would have said is like a female empowerment thing. Like you're a fucking creature, but that's alright.  

But then here we go. Don't talk to or text a guy first. Don't ask guys out by text, Facebook Messenger, instant message or any other way. Don't sit or stand next to a guy first or flirt with him first.   Wait at least four hours.   What's that? TTYL always end everything first. Oh, yes. So get out of there. Don't answer texts. Rarely write on a small stay away from this Facebook profile. Don't email a guy. Make yourself invisible, don't talk too much,   don't just hang out with him, let him suggest Skype and visit you more. Don't lose your friends because you're interested. Guy don't introduce a guy, don't write to guys first, don't pay for dinner or buy his love in any way. Don't choose college or job or relocate because of a guy. Don't get wasted dates. Bioware weeding out bad guys. Don't be self destructive. Stop dating a guy who cancels more than once. Don't send a tech. Don't text or send a guy anything you wouldn't want him to have. Don't accept booty calls. Wait before sleeping with the guy is a good one. Go to the gym.   Wait wait for a guy to follow you on Twitter. Don't date indefinitely without commitment. Next, another rules for dating with rejection.  

So   it very much comes from a negative mindset. If you can't see that, like there's a lot of don't do things in here.   And so this is the revamped version as well. So this I think   originally came out in the nineties.   Yeah, it'd be nice as you mentioned.   I'm guessing that was this kind of sex in the city era as well.   In terms of,   I guess like a change had happened. Females had entered the workforce more   and   there was, I guess,   power dynamics things. I'm guessing these are American authors, I'm pretty sure. So   they would have probably been in this sort of like   city context. You're now working professionally.  

More than likely you're working   underneath a guy. And so this is that kind of whole sex in the city era of   dating   in jobs and big cities type of thing. And so   they, I have my friend at the gym, Leo, he said that show was really good because it captured a timepiece of   those dynamics and   why it was so difficult because, you know, if for guys   and by default, like, you know, women are en masse entering the workforce, they're still probably going to have bosses who are men.   You know, maybe that's changed thirty years later now because they've   more progressed through their careers.  

But he was saying, oh, yeah, the Sex and the City was a great show because it really captured that moment of time. It's like a piece of art in essence, and it captured the,   the struggles of trying to find Mr. Right.   That's another thing you'll hear in this book and also the other one,   which definitely is   different compared to a male.   I don't think I've ever heard a guy say I'm looking for Mrs. Right.   But the amount of times they say,   Mr. Right in here  

[00:07:10] Juan Granados:

is one too many.  

[00:07:12] Kyrin Down:

It's a lot. There's a real fixation on   finding this kind of perfect,   perfect person.   And,   I think that's a   difficult thing to   if you're looking for perfection, you're not going to find it because we're all human beings and we're all flawed. So   that was one of the things that stood out from this book as well.   I'm just trying to find   a particular passage, but I remember just seeing things where I was just like, this is the worst advice I've ever heard. Like,   particularly   the really subtle ones where,   yeah, so you're you're a girl, you're trying to, you know, make yourself, I guess, like more visible, more, more attractive.   They don't really talk about like, hey, there's this is the types of places where you can maybe go out and meet a guy.  

Once you're out there, how would you behave around there?  

[00:08:08] Juan Granados:

I mean,  

[00:08:10] Kyrin Down:

like they were saying, don't sit or stand next to a guy.   Like don't don't even do any of these subtle indications   unreal that you might be interested  

[00:08:20] Juan Granados:

in. Books like this   is is concerning   strongly because the   it's doing it by examples and the examples just like I even said it   maybe before we recorded in that,   examples which kind of get dated a little bit are already kinda no good because as you read them ten years later, you know, they talk about Twitter. Okay. Let's change the x. In Facebook, does anyone really use that in the purpose that it would have been back then?   More fundamental   theories or foundations live in that in that okay. As you're reading all those don'ts, I could imagine a different thread of that to be talked about.   It's about self respect. It's about, you know, guys do like what they have to pursue   and at certain stages as well, at different stages.  

So it could have described it more around those fundamentals. And like I would have preferred maybe there's some science or whatever. Okay, they don't have to. Yeah, the target people are just more fundamental, but the   basics of it,   we could all get amongst it be like, okay, that that makes sense as to what why males might want to want something that they have to pursue and why a mystery is better than just   someone who's just very easy to get, right? But the the examples of the negatives on that are so   limiting   to be really unhelpful because if you like I don't know the fullness of that book as a female that were to read it but if you were to go through certain things like that it makes me go all right well   is the human that is acting in this way   authentic anymore? There's something to be said around, well, if it's effective,   doesn't matter. If it's not authentic, right? So that's and it's probably effective to a certain degree of individuals.  

But how how long lasting is the value? How well is it positioned? And, yeah, with some of those stupid ones, you're gonna have some people taking it literally and go, well, I'm still gonna stand next to any mouse. Like,   how dumb? You'll   I think the   the aspect again, if I go fundamental on, well, maybe one of them is to be self respect and be authentic and care about yourself and also be mysterious.   If you're so focused in on, oh, I can't stand next to this guy because I might like him or whatever.   I think that almost cuts it at the knees of self respect. Like, Yep. It shouldn't matter about that. You should be so confident in yourself to be able to do that. That that's immaterial to that. So rules like that, I go, it might work for   like, honestly, okay. It might work in a particular society in a particular situation.  

Let's just say you're freaking, I don't know, sports field or something like that. And, you know, you like this chick that's over there and she's kind of like, no, no, I'll distance myself and you pursue that movement. But shit, I'd have to come up with such   minute   situations where that may be a good idea. But rules like that I go, Yeah, there's horseshit. I think  

[00:11:11] Kyrin Down:

the this is a good example of a book where   it's a how to on how to attract guys   that   are playing the same game. So this is kind of like the pick up artist version of,  

[00:11:25] Juan Granados:

like reflecting   it back on them. Yeah. Yeah. So but but is it reflecting back on them to try and get them?  

[00:11:33] Kyrin Down:

I think so. I think it's getting them in a superficial sense. So like none of this really talks about,   how to   create a like a long lasting relationship with a guy. It's   it's about it's about dating. Yeah. Like this is a book about dating. So,   just trying to see if it even says, Yeah.   And this process helped millions of women get their Mr. Right. So it's even on the back cover.   I think,   even images the way it says, like the things it's talking about how to manage kind of full cool Facebook profile without giving away too much and how to spot cheaters and players and avoid them like the plague. I don't think that's actually what this does. I think this is a book on how to get the cheetahs and the players. Yeah. Because   it it reminds me of a lot of the pickup artist on the men's side of things, which is,   okay, you know,   you can do peacocking to attack tractor girls attention to the club,   the backhanded compliments, the nagging, you know,   the stuff that's meant designed to put them like off kilter a little bit.  

The same sort of   they continually focus on this book about how guys love a   challenge.   You know, this is one where I really disagree with, at least personally, which is like, I don't like a challenge. Like, if a girl's being the girl like rejects me, that's done. Well, I'm   basically   I've written her off mentally   as a viable prospect. Like, if you're not interested, that's fine.   If you're rejecting me and thinking like that's a challenge and then that's going to like revamp the   ignite the spark. Yeah, that's not gonna work for   me. Does that work for most guys in general?  

I wouldn't know. I don't know. Because   a lot of these,   if I was to follow this, the tone of this, I would have said,  

[00:13:28] Juan Granados:

be an asshole is essentially what I get from this book. And that will Like for females? Yeah, for females. Yes. Correct. Being asshole. It'll attract. Yeah, exactly. So Yeah, I think what's missing in that is that, yeah, it will attract it and it will attract a certain   type of individual to come into that, into that sphere. Because you agree, like   if someone did that to you, I I know for sure you were going to be like, no, he's off. I don't I don't want to deal with this. And   all of a sudden those rules are like, but sure, it will work for a subset of humans. Yeah. You know, don't talk too much in the first few weeks. The  

[00:14:02] Kyrin Down:

I just like if you want to bond with a guy talk and text less and laugh and listen more.   There's   a certain   truth to that, which is, yeah, if you're listening to people more, if you're   being more engaged, yes.   If you read this title,   is that what you kind of get from it? No. No, it's it's it's the it's the pull away, not not draw in, I guess. So that I think that was my problem with the kind of tone in this book. There was I remember there's just one thing where it was like. So there's a there's an overwhelming  

[00:14:35] Juan Granados:

thoughts coming into my mind, so I'm sure people are thinking in the same thing. They go, Kyren, why were you reading  

[00:14:40] Kyrin Down:

this book? Yeah. So I   realized, you know, I've read a whole bunch of dating advice for men. I actually wanted to   have a look see like, okay, well, what what's the opposite of this? What, what,   what would females be doing so I can catch out them nagging me and being like, oh, I see what you're doing. Yeah, I see what you're doing.   That obviously that they don't talk about nagging or   things like that in this book. There's less   psychology other than   the guys like a challenge and scarcity   mindset,   but they certainly don't have the level of detail that a lot of men's books have, which is probably more addressed to men. So it'll be, you know, the   either diving deep into the psychology   of   these studies, psychological studies, behavioral studies that show, you know, this type of behavior will affect people in this way. Therefore, if you   use this type of behavior   on females, it should   elicit this type of behavior.  

Less of that, probably just because men are more like science data and things like that. So you more likely find that in a book addressed to men. Yep.  

[00:15:50] Juan Granados:

But did you find any learnings then?   Like, did you go there? Like, okay, actually, yes, I'm going to change. Yeah. Is there any behaviors you're going to change? Because of it. No, certainly not for myself.  

[00:16:01] Kyrin Down:

And there was only one thing in here.   You'd maybe like the exercise tips as well because you'd probably disagree with that and dieting tips and things, because that's certainly not science based. It was just   random throwing them out. There was one section here which was like we've done a study and we have asked guys what do   what do they like? Let me see if I can find that.   Guys, top top 20 turnoffs. We know we asked them. So page two seventeen. Let me jump here quick.   If you had to guess what would be the top in the top 20 turnoffs for guys.  

[00:16:36] Juan Granados:

Fat,   smelly,  

[00:16:38] Kyrin Down:

annoying. Yeah.   Sure.  

[00:16:44] Juan Granados:

Lazy.  

[00:16:46] Kyrin Down:

Well, the   the things. Yeah, it's pretty simple. If if I had to say anything about this book, I'd be like, read this and don't do any of these.   So   trying too hard.   Multiple tattoos, body piercings, trash   accessories deliberately running into him all the time or showing up at uninvited places   that she knows he'll be   texting or checking her Facebook messages while on a date. Okay, I think that's pretty easy.   Yeah, this is where it show it shows its age writing on his wall in a possessive way. You know, if you're reading this now, if I gave this to a like a 20 year old, they'd be like,  

[00:17:23] Juan Granados:

right? I mean, what wall? Yeah, like, it's   going on. Definitely don't do that.  

[00:17:28] Kyrin Down:

Criticizing him to or in front of mutual friends hooking up too soon, over eating,   or conversely, giving guys a daily   diary of what she's eating in her caloric intake,   attempting to stay friends with an ex,   not caring about her appearance, funking classes, codependence, complaining about something she can easily fix or change for herself, wearing too much makeup,   too much interest in material things,   making friends with a guy's friends so she can hang out the same circles. I guess they were saying that and the guys were saying that in a way where it's like   they're trying to ingratiate themselves too much,   double texting   and being too argumentative,   critical negative, sarcastic, getting embarrassed and drunk or comparing the relationship to other relationships.  



[00:18:14] Juan Granados:

So the best advice you'd find in a female's book of advice to females is from the men It's something I thought about. From the men. Exactly. Yeah. What screams to me as you were like saying some of the rules and some of that book and what   it what it like the conversation that lands in my brain is   is is like there's a certain gate. There's like there's a gate to dating. Okay, you got to get through that gate and okay, fantastic. But then there's another gate for relationship and there's another gate for a more longer extended relationship. And it it screams to me that that book is   trying to find, even if it might be wrong, find what's an effective way to just get you through the gate to get into dating,   even if it means it's not authentic. Yeah. And   I personally have a problem with that, but   for sure, I can get you through that gate. Absolutely. Yeah. If it's going to get you to the next gate, you're probably fucked. So, you know, that maybe your stuff in that. Words you won't find in this book. Truth,  

[00:19:08] Kyrin Down:

love,   honesty, communication.   Good. You won't you won't hear any of that. It's a good baseline. Good foundation. I like it. Yeah. Look, the   they've got this thing for the digital generation. It's obviously   now outdated because the   they don't talk about Tinder. They don't talk about hookup call. Well, maybe slightly better. Talking about AI   $6 Yeah, exactly. So,   there's the tone of it is very much haughty as well.   They have all these things where it's like Alice did this, but she didn't follow the rules and therefore like this is why she got broken up with or this is why she got a heartbroken. So,  

[00:19:44] Juan Granados:

yeah. What names again?   Ellen,   Sherry,   you did a disservice.   You did a disservice in this book.  

[00:19:51] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Look, I think there was probably a time and place and it was obviously   very popular enough that they managed to get a rerelease of it. So it spells BBM mean. What's that? BBM.   Where was that?  

[00:20:04] Juan Granados:

Yeah, it says that was all before texting Facebook, Twitter, Skype, BBM.   Our friends. It was BBM. Is that like BlackBerry mobile or something? I don't know. Is anyone is anyone of age know what BBM is? I'm telling you, we were alive when this book was written. I don't know what BBM is. Yeah, it doesn't come to mind. Yeah. Ellen Cherry   do better.  

[00:20:25] Kyrin Down:

Okay. All right. There we go.   Next book. After you get the guy. Who's the hussy?   Yeah.   First of all, he's very good looking guy. And he's also got a whole bunch of, like, videos on his website. Also,   dated in the sense that he's got, you   know, links   published in 2013. So around about the same time as this one.   And he's got these random links to   videos of like little webinar type things. So if you it's like, you know, gettheguy.com/bookslash.  

[00:20:59] Juan Granados:

Why do books do that? Yeah. Do you book see that? Stephen Bartlett does that. Yeah. He did it for his last rule in his rulebook. Okay. And it was like to get to the last rule, you have to go on the website to find it. It's a bit of pain in the ass. But, you know, I think this is a time when people didn't really. Or maybe it was like going. It was going. Yeah. Going from analog to  

[00:21:18] Kyrin Down:

to digital. So yeah.   So for this book, it's got three parts. Find one, part one, find the guy, part two, get the guy, part three, keep the guy. So he's already. He's better. He's improved that he's already talked to. He's going to the vets   at doing that.   And then that's broken down into things like,   put odds in your favor. Don't you leave your love life to chance? So it's very much more proactive. I'd say this is more of a   it's got more of the self help component of, okay, here's some things that you can do to   improve yourself. So, you know, being a woman of high value, get a social life that serves your love life, the mindset of the chooser,   the traits of desirable women, the white hanger chief approach. This was one bit where he was talking   in the, you know, 1800s,   maybe   early 1900s.  

How did women date back then? Like if they wanted to meet a guy and one thing they'd do is like if they're out on a walk, you know that they can't just go up to guys and things like that. But, you know, if a guy they   were interested in was passing them, they drop the handkerchief,   and then, you know, as any good,   any good gentleman, though, gentleman would go pick it up, he would pick it up, go introduce himself, and then there's a connection, you know, so   it's certainly more   about the   aspects of what you can do to improve your odds and yourself to   get the type of guy that you want. And   yeah, the   other things that I  

[00:22:43] Juan Granados:

you know, there's  

[00:22:45] Kyrin Down:

the things about books and stuff like this is sometimes they'll just have one little thing where you go, you really attach on to that and it makes you like the person way more. Sure. So he was talking about the joy of text here. And so   he was actually saying like, I don't like I don't advocate texting in terms of this real back and forth long time   long thing. Cars like yes being being more   logistical   and to the point and I was like, oh yeah, that's, that's, that's something I really enjoy. Is that really great advice for girls to get guys? I'm not actually sure.   I've know plenty of examples. And you'd even say that,   with the rise of Tinder and things like that, which is much more about texting.  

Yeah, it's different.   Cultures are different as well, though. I feel I'd do better in a Latin culture where   sending voice messages is much more common.   Like Latin America,   Colombia, places like that. Everyone sends voice notes all the time. Yeah. We don't do that here in Australia. My brother's told me just not do that to him. He doesn't like it. So I've been told off for doing that. I also do that sometimes actually to  

[00:23:50] Juan Granados:

mum. I send like audio notes, but   I never received that. Receive any audio notes even from like Colombian family members.   Okay. Yeah. I don't know why. Yeah. Maybe they know you're Australian. I don't know. Like, talk to me. It could be that  

[00:24:05] Kyrin Down:

one. One needs to read the, get get the Colombian   family.   They have the new rules to get friends. Yeah. So the first the first bit about this is really, Okay, yeah, finding the guy. What are the things you can do to improve yourself and improve your odds? The next bit is more about the dating section. So this is how to flirt.   What about insecurity?   Out of creating a great date sex talk?   What happens if you're stuck in the friend trap? Why hasn't he called   and things like that? And then the last one's how to be the woman of his dreams. Is he Mr. Right? So they've got the Mr. Right back. I'll be right. Yeah. What guys really think about the C word? What is the C word one? But but you didn't know if you want him to commit and then love for life.   So the backstory with him is that he   helped men. And that was his initial kind of thing. And then he was just getting messages from females saying like, Hey,   like, what are they saying? Yeah, how do I get   find a guy like what's dating advice for me? And he said he felt awkward at first because he's like, well, I'm not a female, so   how can I kind of do that? But then   after just kind of leaning into it and actually, you know, surveying guys   finding out what they like. And then also, I think if you just spend enough time in one world   trying to attract women,   for men, you start to learn about the other side as well. So I'd actually be really interested in reading a book from these girls on what guys can do to get girls. Because that would that would be really fascinating. Probably shit. I'd probably be terrible. I think it would be.  

Yeah, I lose.  

[00:25:42] Juan Granados:

The dinner must be over $132  

[00:25:45] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.   So,   you know, things like this that he's gotten here, compliment three people a day. You can't leave the gym until you've had three conversations.   Talk to anyone reading a book.   Talk to a guy playing with gadgets. It's it's a lot more,   friendly in nature.   Like, hey, how are you sort of like vibes instead of a standoffish.  

[00:26:10] Juan Granados:

Feels more encouraging. Yep.  

[00:26:12] Kyrin Down:

Yep. For   sure. He's got   plenty of talk of   how to be a woman of high value, how you might go about doing this. And,   you know what? The funny thing is reading this book   really made me go.   I think I am a woman stuck in a man's body. I got to say,   I've we're coming out here. I'm coming out as trans. Trans. But   no, seriously, in terms of like personality wise, if I think of myself and I think I mentioned this before,   the   the aspects that he was talking about of, Okay, like what if they don't respond back?   What if you get in this type of situation and,   you're,   you're feeling nervous about approaching or something like this. So even if it's like a really subtle version of approaching,   all of this I really resonated with as in terms of like,   if I was a female,   this is exactly how I'd feel as I feel right now as a male.  

So it's honestly, funnily enough, like, I kind of wish I was gay because you're like, this is an influential book for me. This would be a really, really, really helpful book for me.  

[00:27:24] Juan Granados:

It wouldn't it wouldn't though. It wouldn't though. No, because gay dating dynamics. Correct. Yeah. It would be very different what   the gay community would be wanting or expecting.  

[00:27:35] Kyrin Down:

So both of these books are   talking about a girl finding  

[00:27:39] Juan Granados:

a guy. But if you're in like, yeah, if you're in a female body with your current mindset, you're like,  

[00:27:44] Kyrin Down:

oh, this is good. I get it. Yeah. And and I think that's just other. How the female would be like, yes, this is this is aligned. Yeah. Yeah, I feel so. I feel so. The because just most of my personality traits   are certainly what I think   you'd lean more towards the female.   I really don't like aggression. I really don't like confrontation.   So like the people pleasing type of nature, many of my hobbies   are much more like female dominated,   orientated, if you want to call it like that.   Neuroticism,   same thing. Like when I was just reading this, I was going,   yeah, this   is it's it's just   it's too familiar.  

When I when I was reading this, I was going, okay, I get it. I get it.   So   and again, any any items from the book that then change your behaviors or was it just more of an entertaining? Yeah, this was this was more of an entertaining read to get into both of these and go, okay, you know, if I had a female friend who was,   you know, complaining about dating or one of That book might be a better one than the rules one? Yeah. A 100%. 100%. I would definitely be recommending this.   And  

[00:28:56] Juan Granados:

Well, what it ultimately, I guess what what I'm hearing about is you as a guy and you'd be like, if a girl expressed all of the behaviors that this book is portraying, you would be like, yes.   Like, nailed it. Well done. Like, I'm I'm going for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Some of the those questions in the back actually did you if you can remember, it says it says inside you'll learn how and where to meet the best man. Can you remember where he says where where is the best location? No, I didn't I didn't think he had particular recommendations other than  

[00:29:24] Kyrin Down:

related to whatever hobbies you're interested in. If you enjoy going to bars. Right. Go to bars. If you enjoy, you know, the gym, go to the gym, art,  

[00:29:33] Juan Granados:

go to art fairs, things like that. And it says eight words that instantly build attraction in chemistry with any guy. Okay. More than. I don't remember. Eight words in there.  

[00:29:43] Kyrin Down:

Oh. Maybe it won't. I really don't remember.  

[00:29:45] Juan Granados:

But I like, sometimes I like if they've got the proof or like the, you know, the information behind us, the way they get it, I like that sort of stuff. Because it's interesting questions that everyone would want to have answered. And if there's enough depth to it, that'd be cool. But no, I get I get it. There's like,   there's a bit more in this one that I'd go, okay. I could see the recommendation to a female to be like, yeah, this is more along the lines of you're gonna get a more broader set of   guys or individuals that you're probably going to be able to attract and it's aligned to the things you care about and everything else. Sure.  

[00:30:16] Kyrin Down:

We'll touch on upon this one really briefly and then perhaps after the boost grand lounge, we'll just talk about it. If if we were going to give advice to females, what we would do. So. Oh, get ready. Yeah.   Last one here attached. How are you anxious, avoidant or secure? You might have heard of this before. It's very much in the,   like the five love languages. If you've heard about that before, it's a way of framing   personality traits in a   new structure, I guess,   because   I think psychologists   and people love just doing this, creating a new formula.   From what I've gathered,   the the best one is ocean. The five big traits,  

[00:31:00] Juan Granados:

openness, openness, conscientiousness,  

[00:31:02] Kyrin Down:

conscientiousness,   extroversion, agreeableness, neuroticism.   And those are why I kind of constantly talk about them   for myself.   The   I'd had some friends really recommend this book and say like, this really helped me understand myself.   Some guy friends actually, and the guy friends in particular would have been an avoidant   personality type.   And the   thing reading it, I was like, okay, this could actually   help me out in a sense because it's like maybe it lets me know myself a bit better,   what type of behaviors that I might exhibit that I don't realize I'm exhibiting and how this   affects relationships   that I have with people, and in particular women, which is   I this book is mostly focused on your relationships with a significant other.  

More broad in general, it's not advice,   although it does have some advice of if you are a certain type, this is maybe some things you should look out for and what you could do. And then the three types secure is you're just you're I guess,   comfortable,   you're in yourself   in what you say, and you have set up boundaries for yourself and things like this.   Avoidant is if there's   not even conflict, it's just   as you move into a relationship, you start to   distance yourself in certain respects. You'll,   perhaps not talk to the person as much, not   be unwilling to jump into something   and make it formal   to interest   juice yourself,   to her friends or have her your family meet her or things like this.  

The other is,   anxious. Was it was it a secure anxious avoidant anxious is where,   oh my god, has he texted me back or like, oh my god, is she? And once again, this is not gender specific. It's across   male, female,   non genders, if you want to include that as well.   And I don't include.   And   right in front of me one right in front of me after I just came out and you see that   and   the types of behaviors that will come. So it's got a   test here to   find out which which are you   And   it's a pretty simple thing. What is my attachment style? And then   it's got three columns, a, b and c. If you tick off mostly a's, then you're a certain type of tick off mostly b's or a certain type c's same as well. So   some of the things I often worry that my partner will stop loving me. True or false? Like if you if you feel it, ticket.  

I find it easy to be affectionate with my partner   B, you know, ticket.   And   I find that I bounce back quickly after a breakup. It's weird how I can just put someone out of my mind. See, they can see they're Okay,   anxious as if you're mostly taking A's secure as if you're taking B's C is if you're avoidant and just like, oh, whatever doesn't. Yeah. Gotcha.   Yep.   As I was going through this, I'm like, all right, what do you think I would be, Juan, after   just generally knowing me?  

[00:34:11] Juan Granados:

Probably avoidant.  

[00:34:13] Kyrin Down:

Avoidant?  

[00:34:13] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Okay. See, I predict. There's bits there's bits between like   I get. Yeah, I guess I don't know the   depths of what it actually means between avoidant   and anxious and secure. But I would have said some aspects of anxious, some aspects of avoidant. Sure. And,  

[00:34:29] Kyrin Down:

there's other things. If I had to guess, I would have said I'm probably more anxious. So   some of the things anxious people would be, I worry that if my partner leaves me, I might never find someone else during a conflict. I tend to impulsively do or say things I later regret rather than not being able to reason about things.   I worry that I'm not attractive enough. If I notice   that someone I'm interested in is checking out other people, it makes me feel depressed.   If someone I'm dating begins to act cold and distant, I'll worry that I've done something wrong. A couple of those were things that I ticked. Yes.   There was a couple of things in C avoidant that I ticked, but I think I remember it was basically it came down to I was like   six anxious,   five secure and two avoidant.  

So I went like, oh, okay, cool. All right. I've got a ratio here of what I am.   What do I do next?   And the book does not talk about that at all. It's just like if you're good, you're one style and you're either like   you're either secure.   I think they said it was like   25%.   Maybe see if I can find the actual stats that they used. I remember there was or you can also be anxious avoidant as well. So you can have the worst   of the boys. You can be that person. In the APOE.   Yeah.   Man, I'm trying to, trying to find the actual numbers they said. You should upload for  

[00:35:52] Juan Granados:

Alzheimer's   susceptibility.  

[00:35:54] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, it was, it was something like   fifty percent,   maybe like   fifty percent, secure twenty five percent or twenty four percent of anxious twenty four percent avoidant and then two percent of this   joint one. Yeah.   So,   yeah, it's a I think it's like, this is book, there's a book more useful properly for   figuring out like, what your partner is, and then being able to to help that because a lot of the things that were then being recommended in here, I was like,   they used the same thing where it's like John 29. When I was growing up, my father constantly told me not to rely on anyone, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it goes on to show how this belief in self reliance is therefore help stopping him from   creating a relationship and is helping him   not   get exposed to heartbreak or something like that.  

Helpful for some people not helpful for me at all. I kind of just went like, as is a way of framing things.   Yeah. Not not not useful for myself.   Yeah. Yep. Yep.   If I do describe other people from it as well, I'm not sure I'd I'd like for you, I'd need you to actually   read this and do it. I'm I'm pretty sure you'd just come out as secure.  

[00:37:17] Juan Granados:

Yeah.   Yeah. But it's hard. It's hard. I know what you mean. But I guess what I'm assuming is   it's more. Yeah. It helps you read other people on understanding, oh, you're secure. Okay. That means this. I know that I'm this. So that's the discrepancy as opposed to so much.   But doing what doing that quiz,   you wouldn't learn anything new. You're just like, oh, yeah. I know that. Like, yes. Okay. You've now added a label. I I mean, the label could be your duck, a lion, or a quack. It's like, okay.   Fine. But still nothing has changed.   It was similar to   for my daughter when she was going through,   a toilet training.  

My wife went to a toilet training, like, seminar that they held at the daycare.   And they began being like labeling using labels and going, okay, well, if you've got to, you know, go to this quiz about your kid, okay, so if you've landed on all this, you've got a monkey and if not, you got a lion. If not, you got to herd out. I tell you that animal. Right. And all these animals had a particular thing to do with how   they, you know, they might best go for,   toilet training and everything else. So again, those labels could have been   whatever. It actually   doesn't matter. There's underlying activities or maybe   threads of how they act that do support that. But again, label is label. You could call this not anxious, not secure, something else entirely different.  

It's not, it doesn't change what you know about yourself. It maybe helps illustrate it and especially someone like you, you know well   plenty   exactly how you might behave. I guess it would be really beneficial for people   who don't even know that like they just have no idea   that there's these angles there's like they're doing they're performing unconsciously   actions that they just aren't aware of and when they really are confronted by the question,   maybe makes them think like, oh,   actually, yeah, I do worry about that. But I'm assuming for people who just don't even think that way, that that might be a beneficial. Yeah,  

[00:39:03] Kyrin Down:

for   most of the population, if my   numbers were right of secure, securely attached, people feel comfortable with intimacy and are usually warm and loving.   This book is useless. There's a lot. You'd be like, oh, it's informational. It's like, oh, nice information, but cool. Okay, nothing for me to do. Yeah, pretty much. So there we go. Little, little book review section session that we had there. Let's jump on to the boost gram lounge.   And I did see Cole coming in and saying single women keep other women single.   That's probably.  



[00:39:32] Juan Granados:

Oh, that's that's interesting.  

[00:39:34] Kyrin Down:

I'll talk about in the,   in our, in our dating advice section. But no bootstraps. No bootstraps. No bootstraps.  

[00:39:41] Juan Granados:

Not coming on. No, it's not going on. Sorry, people.  

[00:39:44] Kyrin Down:

The staying off. Feeny is staying off at the moment. But if you would like to help support the show, me and mortalspodcast.com/support,   they've got some areas there. You can send us some PayPal you could use in one of the podcasting apps, which we   very much help enjoy. FOUNTAIN in particular is one we recommend. It's the easiest to use. And   I   will maybe just double check. You just checked on.  

[00:40:09] Juan Granados:

Yeah, correct. Satoshi stream. Didn't you? I did check on FOUNTAIN directly. Do a little quick double check. Just to see there's anything else. But yeah,   I guess we'll get into in this second part now, I guess more so what would we recommend after reading   Kafka? Well, I've currently read a couple of these books, but just talking about it as well, what are the sort of things that we would say or suggest   to individuals out there, specifically   maybe females? I mean, we can broaden it up to just be just relationships in general.   There's a couple of years, a couple of philosophies or like foundational things that I was making notes of just purely off the purple book from before this. We even did this podcast.  

I was sort of it'd be   most a friend of his questions, I guess, more than anything   to talk about. I mean, one was   the thought of   the effectiveness,   like,   you know, reading all these books or just hearing or even like any advice to females in general? Actually, was there anything in the fandom? From an effectiveness perspective, I kind of go,   my one advice or my one thought process in talking about it with   mine's more of an interesting one.   If I look at it, for my daughters, right? So from my daughter's perspective, when they get older, what's something that I would suggest to talk about? One might be   be   mindful   of doing things that are effective   that are not authentic.  

I think that's that's a can be a crippling one because I know personally,   I can do very effective things to get to the first gate of dating. And that's   immaterial   of the tool that you use and the places that you go to. You can   express yourself in a   way that could always be manipulative.   Right? You can manipulate almost all you want to get to the first gate. Fantastic.   But   that effectiveness   only goes so far. Now, if you're   if you aim at the game and I guess that's going to be important. What are you aiming for? If you're just aiming for numbers or to mingle or you could expand beyond relationships into friends,   then aim it very directly and be very effective for that. An example of the an AI and project management chat that I went to, and I haven't been to   many networking events for a while. But one aim as I went there, part of it was learn, listen. The other one was I haven't been to a networking event for a long time. I wanna mingle and talk to a lot of people. I made a point to just talk about   basically every every single person I was there. I basically told them a quick spiel of what I was doing, sort sort out about what they were doing, find out their names. I was super loud. I was loud on purpose. I got super loud. I was making jokes. I was just it was being like very, very outgoing in those interactions.  

And   that was effective.   Now I would say 80% was authentic. What do I mean by that? There's some people that I couldn't give shit what they were telling me when they started talking about it, but I was being effective in asking them a few more questions to it. There was some really weird dudes there. Some really, really weird dude. I didn't want it. I was like, authentically, I'd be like, I don't care. I'm gonna leave it. But effectiveness, I was like, Cool. I'll interact. I'll bring him into the picture. I'll have the conversation. So   put that into an example of, you know, the dating world, whether it's a girl or a guy, I'd be very careful on what what things are you doing and you're listening to and reading that are making you effective.  

That then you will be crippled at the bit when it becomes authentic because the first gate of dating being effective, wonderful into a relationship. I think you can still be   effective in some ways and still miss authenticity. But, and I've said this before,   when you get into problems,   when you get into a longer lasting relationship,   that is where authenticity is gonna really show up. And you can't keep effectiveness forever if it's not   exclusively aligned to how you live. So, and I wouldn't say   again in like the spirit of telling this to my daughters, I would kind of go,   there are some times when you have to just be effective because that's the game. Like you've got to demonstrate to to be a little bit different and do certain things to put yourself into positions.  

If you authentically really enjoy   laying around the home and not really doing much, again, they're not gonna come and find you. Like, you can't have to be effective in doing things that put you into a betterment and serendipity and find someone.   Maybe you touch that to effectiveness. But that is like one foundation I'd say, I would be my one one of my tips. What am I going to positions? And that's female, male, independent.  

[00:44:28] Kyrin Down:

Yep.   This reminds me of advice my dad gave me once when   I was I would have been like fifteen fourteen or something. And,   you know,   obviously, the topic of like girls or dating came up, he probably would have forced it because   I know I was very avoidant   in that in that context. So I really disliked   talking with my dad about these things when I was I was young. And it just   like that wasn't the type of relationship that I had with my mom, so it didn't come up. I remember him saying,   you know,   you kind of have to put on an act, like put on like a mask.   You do behave differently.  

And this is how you can like,   act confident or get a female or something, essentially fake it till you make it. But I remember just the advice back then, even then it it resonated wrong it   and this is where I go like man must be tough being a parent   because some things that you know that might have really worked for him that might have been advice he heard when he was   15   and   it helped him get out of his shell because it   it sounded like we had very similar backstories   other than   his upbringing.   Upbringing was totally different than mine and   had a lot more religious aspects to it and things like that, which   has its own trauma, if you want to put it that way.  

So there's some things where I'm sure that was probably fantastic advice for him. For me, just resonated wrong. And I was like, well,   if I can't be myself   and I have to pretend to be someone else my whole life, like, I'm going to be unlovable   because   that's not me. Like, I have to,   you know, they've fallen in love with someone else, and that's not me. So what's the like? What's the even point?   You know, probably the   addition to that advice would be like, you know,   you'll have to be effective   or at least some certain bit to get your foot in the door.   And then over time, you for one, you can't keep up an act like that. That's impossible. And so your personality personality will naturally seep out your true one. And then,   you know, then they'll have to decide if they actually like that  

[00:46:45] Juan Granados:

true personality or not. And yeah, yeah, then I get it coming out. Like, one thing that  

[00:46:51] Kyrin Down:

is funny, this is just it's the same thing over and over again, in the dating world. It so much of it comes down to confidence and fake it till we make it. Yeah. Discussions. But but related to these. But even but even even to like the exploration of,  

[00:47:06] Juan Granados:

you're you're in the position you're in and there's like a load of other people who are in similar positions where   they authentically   are different   in the way that they lead a day to day life because   either choice or they don't have to or whatever.   But   effectively in the world of society that we live in, it actually might be more effective to have a job.   Even though authentically,   it's not needed, not something you want to do, or whatever, right? And so   there's an example there of, hey, it might even just be effective. If the aim is to   mingle and find people would be   be a job because there's a whatever the percentages, there's a big percentage of people that find a person or a relationship through work. So that could be one   area where it's like,   like it's not authentic because you don't have to know, do you want, like, want to work in those in a profession like that, but maybe it might be really effective. The other one that kind of came to mind was,   again, going to   advice here and specific to daughters, I go, one part of being effective   might be being interesting. Like it might be slightly adjacent. And one obvious way to be interesting is to have traveled a lot. Travel. Travel brings you stories. It brings you experiences. It brings you more connections in whichever way, shape or form.  

But you can have a person like that is authentically doesn't want to do that. Like I've said to you previously, podcast have a a mate who has never left Queensland. Right. And it's like,   he he is probably authentic. He's a very authentic Australian guy who doesn't want to travel. I don't care. I don't wanna have a passport and whatnot.   I'm sure that wasn't as effective for him, but he's got a partner. They've got, you know, they've got kids. Obviously, they're making it work. But in the grand scheme of an advisor to go   something like travel   or the ability to create stories of different things makes it interesting and interesting as an effective person because you can have these random conversations with people that   at a dime where it's are, oh, you know, we were driving someone home from Burley,   you know, and she   was over from The US. She literally flown over from The US that day and she was going to New Caledonia for some work. But as part of the conversation we're having, she started being like, Oh yeah, I, I live in   Canada actually in Quebec and I know French. Oh, but I also lived in Japan for four years and so I know Japanese. Oh, but and I also know Portuguese. Oh, and Spanish and a little bit of French and all this. And I was just like, that's interesting. And I think in whichever angle you'd be really effective on like a broad amount of people because if you know a a little bit of Japanese or you lived in Japan and there was some interest there's like interest in other people's lives. But if you're and even though if you're not like authentically might be like I really enjoy just living in my house and doing training and going home and not doing anything else, it it puts you in a worse position   because you just you intersect with other humans   very small like that. That percentage is such a fraction   where the where if you're like varied, even if it's not extensive, but if you're varied enough, you can hit a lot of percentage of population and have at least more surface area to hit some sort of good successful connection.  



[00:50:09] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, yeah,   yeah, yeah. Good, good advice.   I went out yesterday at a barbecue,   There was a   girl that came along. She came along with her boyfriend. So,   you know, that was obvious from the from the get go. But we got chatting for a bit and I think I overheard them saying something about Italy. And so I asked her about travel. Ma'am, was that an easy conversation to talk with her for the next twenty minutes about, you know, the various different places she went in Italy, where she likes to go to, where she's going next. Like super, super easy conversation starter is  

[00:50:42] Juan Granados:

is travel. So that's a good one. That's a helpful one. The other one that I was writing, it's   this is a slippery slope in that   it's a question.   Do you desire people   Or do you desire what you can't have or want to have? And those are slightly two different things. So, you know, the the clear example of this is from what I mean, no, I guess males and females,   if you're lonely, if you haven't been in a relationship for a long time or a date on everything else,   whenever you stumble upon a person,   there might be a real possibility that you're not desiring that person. You're just desiring not to happy lonely. Sure. Like that's like that's like the inverse of it. And that   is it's a slippery slope because it's not   all that wrong. You know, that's probably something I've been feeling in the last year. Yeah. Yeah. So like so my my fear, one of my fears in your model that's for for Kyren, I would say is my fear is that extended   period of being on your own   means that   you move away from the desire   of just a person in general, and then it becomes the desire of, okay, I don't wanna be on my own anymore. Find someone.  

And then and the slippery slope was like, that might be the path because you can make a relationship work probably with just about everyone as long as it got some similar values, right? You can make it work. So the, you know, the slippery thing is, is that really such a bad thing   to go into a date or relationship or even extended   if it isn't about the person necessarily at the beginning? I don't know. Like that's,   there's more a question, I guess, to think about as a as a person in that when you're younger, like if it's a younger generation or younger individual that I'm saying is advised to,   it's like, it kind of doesn't matter. It's fine. You can you can just be wanting it because you want the experience. If you've never had a sexual encounter, it might just be for that. If you're, you know, if you're wanting to be in a relationship, if you want to encounter people when you're traveling, it's fine. Like that's, I think it's all totally fine. But when you're starting to, if you've done it already, a few of those things   and you're just desiring these things rather than the person,   that could be hard because at what point might you get down the path when you go, Oh,   I'm no longer   lonely, or I've got someone and they're with me through some suffering and some other things.  

But then the person aspect of it comes up and you go, shit. I don't want that.   And that's that's a real problem because you've satisfied   something that you've always like, you wanted,   but then the person itself doesn't satisfy what your end state is of that person,   which then leads to, I'm sure,   many relationship is like, oh, that's the like, okay, cool. Go and find the right dress. Go and find the next person that will now satisfy that aspect that you now don't have satisfied in the current relationship. Yeah. Yeah. That's,  

[00:53:23] Kyrin Down:

yeah, that's tricky. I mean, that's getting into like,   what would you call it? Like dating advice for the older people as well.   When you're and   this is the thing where it's like everyone's an individual. So  

[00:53:34] Juan Granados:

if you're if you're giving broad, sweeping advice, it's very hard to well tailor that. Yeah. But but I guess like it gets a question. The question itself can can be independent to like age and whatnot. Because one example of a younger person is, you know, might it be the case that   dating, say dating is what's the thing that you're missing right now? Take as an example.   Is the answer.   Forget the people. Like, forget that you're finding the right person, designing the right person. Maybe just you go on a few dates and with whoever. Right? And it might not be even aligned with what you want, but in the nature of then you fulfilling the dating aspect,   it then kind of unlocks you to then care about even more so designing the right person. And it also, I'm sure, puts   most people into a good set of mind. Oh, I'm dating. Like, I'm seeing people. I'm doing whatever. And it almost unlocks you, makes you even more confident when you meet the next person to be like, hey, did you wanna connect? Because and again, this is, again, bit of a weird, like, gray area. Some people go, Oh, if I'm dating, I'm only dating one person. Whereas, you know, there's a whole bunch of groups where it's like, Oh, no. I'm dating. I'm dating a few people and I'm seeing a few people and to see what it is. I don't know. Have you ever been in that situation where,   you know, you've you've been dating and then seeing a couple of people   and then that puts you in a position where it's, oh, it's actually even easier now to have more conversations to find the right person? Yeah, yeah,  

[00:54:53] Kyrin Down:

yeah. Both both where it was like dating and just that was like just dating one person and dating where it was more of a that you're keeping your   eyes open for the whole time. But that was that was certainly more of a   a learning experience. If I had to give my my pieces of advice,   and I'd try and make it broad, sweeping as possible as well. So like,   number one, understanding the male mind is and especially when it comes to sex, just   when you're in your teens as a male, it's even crazier and puberty. Like, that's all you can think about. And I'd try and just impress how   overwhelming   that urge is and how much it clouds clouds your mind and even getting into like,   later, you know, twenties and thirties, like it's still and   probably forties, fifties. I don't know. I don't know when the   the   the   testosterone   decline. Well, it declines that rage, I guess. So that that probably plays a part. But I'd really try and impress upon like a female just how Yeah, it's not there's not there's not much you get around evolution, right? Like evolutionary.  



[00:55:57] Juan Granados:

Once you hit the male   age with Zostran is getting generated, evolution tells them you need to procreate   now. Yeah. Make some offsprings. That's your main main thing to do. Yeah. Has existed for such a long time. It's really just a new convention of the last couple of hundred years that we're like, oh, you know, we don't have to do that.  

[00:56:15] Kyrin Down:

So there's an overwhelming With birth control, it changes things. So that'd probably be the number one, like, understand the male mind.   Okay, this is a very and it's like irrational in the sense that we can't really control it. A lot of times it's just it's just there and it's man is it is it strong?   So that that would certainly be one.   Coles addressed one here, which is   single women keep other women single. So   yes, it's   it's such broad, easy advice, but   it's worth repeating.   You know, the average of your five best friends, if your five best friends are single,   like there's probably a reason why they're all single. And this could be great if you're all in your early twenties and not caring about a relationship.  

If you're all in your deep into your mid thirties and you're wanting to have kids and   and once again, this is for the females   and   all of your friends are female and single, there's probably going to be some,   how would you call it,   association   or encouraging of behavior which isn't helpful. You know,   this guy said this, fuck that guy. Let's get drunk and talk to him to get him. Yeah. Eat, eat, eat a whole bunch of ice cream to make yourself feel bad, feel better or whatnot or, you know, girls night out. We just go out and we like   we follow the rules and we're just fucking trash assholes to all men.  

Yeah. Okay. That's that's not going to help you.   So   the and you know, if you've got if you go on a date with a guy and he is a really nice date, but he did one thing wrong, and then you've got a friend who just really hones in and focus on that one thing wrong.   He's not Mr. Right. If he, you know, sneezed into   a fucking handkerchief and then, like, left it on the table or something.   Okay. Yes. That's maybe that's gross, but that's not   the worst thing in the world. Right? It's   probably something that could be addressed at some point as well.   So the   this this focus fixation on Mr. Right is probably   I would I wouldn't advocate for that. No, for sure. I wouldn't be advocate for,   okay, you know, figure out yourself. What do you want? And then what are the kind of like non negotiable things that you want to see in a partner?  

And then   yeah, just just try and be ruthless in terms of you're not going to change him if he breaks one of those things. If, if, you know, if   loyalty is something super important to you and he and he cheats like trying to fix that is probably not going to be   the right solution   to your aunt,  

[00:58:59] Juan Granados:

to to your problem. Yeah. Yeah. I think something said, I think it's like   rules are not so much about them.   Rules are more should be more about you. I think the,   in if I try to put it again, advice, daughters, I'd kind of go just   maximize how good you can be in whatever you care about. And again, that's what, like, really important, whatever you care about. And again, if it's for you, if it's hand balancing of someone else, it's training, it's running, it's reading, it's chess playing, whatever. Just   set the rules   for you and maximize who you are. Because again,   whatever,   whatever niche, whatever area it is that you are great at, there are certain attractive qualities   to say here, from a male's perspective,   it is attractive if they like the   off, they're really great in a particular thing that's endured like that's enchanting in a way. It's kind of enduring. They're not just like bottom level, whatever they are performing. I guess in today's world, we don't care as much about, you know, the female who's gonna be just be staying at home looking after the family. And some people still do. But I think a broader perspective of humans now are like, oh, yeah, I want a power couple. You know, you wanna have the individuals that's also a go get out or that's also doing a lot of things in whatever area that you're looking at. So   maximizing, just maximizing who you are is whatever it is that you care about and being   again to the part   of being authentically you being really good at that, just knowing where you have to be effective and that might be in putting yourself out there in certain situations.  

Yep. Makes sense. But I think the the more you maximize yourself and put the rules on yourself,   the better it's gonna be. And forgetting the yeah. Oh, I've got a family. So what's, you know, mister perfect, mister who's   gonna be or inversely the other way. It's like, I think that's a recipe   for a problem in that for that forcing fun the forcing function of finding something like the focus on someone   is less powerful and less useful than the forcing function of putting it on yourself and being like, yeah. But am I like the right attractive individual   doing x things that will make the right person come to me and I'll help that out. And, you know, some of that,   kinda like that from the secret, the bookiness, like, you know, if I do this, it'll attract the people that will genuinely will, as long as you put yourself in the position for people to discover you. And again, that can be in this world that we're in right now, it could be through apps, it could be through social media, it could be through   whatever other places. You know, in the past, as an example, I've been approached at the gym by people and that's resulted in dates and resulted in whatever.  

If if I had to guess it's because I was either loud or I was doing something crazy. You know, but it's it's like, it's it and maybe I was capable enough in those areas that people find it as like, Oh, that's kind of cool. So   yeah, an example for a girl, if it's running, you know, just be if you become really good at your running or your training or the the movements that you're doing and you show up and you are,   courteous and effective and all those things, you're gonna have people in that same ecosystem. They're gonna be like, yeah, they're attractive for all these various reasons.   But super helpful if you're focusing yourself as opposed to focusing on, oh, that guy is running there. I'm not gonna run next to him because then he'll know I'm attracted. So if I just run on the other field,   that that'll get him. That will get him. He likes a challenge. That's right. I can see Juan's  

[01:02:10] Kyrin Down:

dating advice for men's. His book's just gonna be called be loud.  

[01:02:14] Juan Granados:

Be loud. Be loud. Be obnoxious.  

[01:02:16] Kyrin Down:

Lift weights. So so on that, I would also then highlight   in particular,   what's the   Pareto principle,   but even   Pareto squared  

[01:02:27] Juan Granados:

is what I would say is  

[01:02:29] Kyrin Down:

that, you know, if you're in if you've got five hours a week to invest in yourself,   let's just say that's all you can manage or, you know, your jobs,   and crazy hectic, whatever,   five hours a week,   or an hour a day, maybe the   biggest bang for your buck is simply   losing weight. So if you're if you're overweight, like,   that's   the and   it's tricky because, like, you don't want to,   then say, like,   look, the importance of guys for   a female's attractiveness, we're very visual. It's   like   the   I'd say, you know, whatever much you rank a guy's appearance in your list of   like criteria   for a guy like the appearance is just it's a very strong portion of it. It's a it's almost a binary thing.  

Now just try and impress on that without then saying like, you know,   don't you know, you've got to have bigger boobs. If your nose isn't imperfect, your hair is not like perfectly straight or if you got curly hair or whatever,   it's almost like   as long as you're thin   and thin by whatever   Devon, maybe body fat is probably the easiest way of saying it rather than thin because you can be   like a low body weight,   body fat girl,   low body weight girl, low body fat   percentage. And for females, it's, you know, probably   in the   25%   ish to 17%   or something something around there.  

You can still be super curvy or   very, very thin,   straight ballerina type. But that's   the   Yeah, thin thin is probably not the right word. Anyway, I just impress   Appearance is very important. So if you only have five hours, like,   don't spend those five hours becoming the best pianist in the world and be super overweight.   I'd probably put the five hours going to the gym. Yeah, there's a pretty squid principle in action. Yeah. A 100%. And and then any other stuff? I mean, like,   you know, there's this great clip of this girl, which is like, hey. Hey. This is for all the boys out there.   Hey, guys,   what do you want? And then they're like, what the fuck do you want?  



[01:04:50] Juan Granados:

And it's a it's funny because it's like. Porsche, you know, Porsche nine eleven under the Christmas tree. Yeah.  

[01:04:56] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. All the comments for that were like,   Nvidia   XPGT   chip with, you know,   World of Warcraft or like Warhammer. Yeah. Downloaded onto us. Yeah,   that's all we want.   The   the other aspects when it comes to like,   what do I do if a guy doesn't text me back or if he says this thing or, you know, he's   behaving in this sort of way?   All of that, that's that's probably like a little bit out of the depth of advice I'd be comfortable sharing and it's too niche too granular.   Unless you're like really   getting in Yeah, when it comes to like one on one.   Why is this person behaving this way?  

There's no rhyme, no reason. I've Yeah. You don't even you can't weigh too much trying to analyze   interactions I've had with women. And it's just like Kind of picking up cheese.   Yeah. Smashed. That that alright. That's one thing. Don't  

[01:05:54] Juan Granados:

talk about cheese.   Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah.   I'd agree with yours on like the burrito squared principle. I think it'd be. Yep. Just lose weight. That's a huge thing. Obviously, just from a health perspective and all round people care about that. And I think the other one is get to the point that you can, you can read yourself really easily. If you can do that and whatever the fuck you care about, if you can read yourself really easy by emotions,   goals, awareness,   care factor, again, you can't really read. You can only read people to a certain extent, but if you can read yourself really, really well, then you can understand certain things when you then move into positions of dating or relationships and knowing whether you're doing it again for is it a power dynamic? Is it just you're doing it not for the person, but for the thing that you're missing? Then you'll be able to understand that and know whether it's like a go or no go and stuff like that. Yeah. Because you mentioned it before, I think I'll be genuine. It's about a thing that happened during the week for me. So when I was on Wednesday evening, caught up with family, and then I was walking through the city back to where I'd parked, which was in Kangaroo Point. So essentially, I had to walk through Brisbane CBD,  

[01:06:58] Kyrin Down:

tennis blocks, whatever. Yep. And then across the bridge   over the river to where I'd parked.   I don't know how long that walk is twenty twenty minutes, something like   that. I experienced an intense loneliness I have not felt for   a fair while in terms of the intensity of it.   I think it was kind of triggered by   being   two things. There was one there was like Christmas markets out and so,   kind of walking into that from the casino.   And at that time of night, like all you're seeing around is couples just culture everywhere. And if you're also walking through the city, you're passing by any restaurants or things. It's just couples everywhere. So yeah, this hit me here walking on my lonesome with a couple other like random lonesome people around.   And just seeing couples everywhere,   it does like sting, makes you feel, especially if you're looking for a relationship. Yep. And then the other is just being, I think, in a place, okay, the city, which which is normally bustling, full of life. There's people everywhere   and then it's very quiet and empty.  

And I did feel that real intense, like, bite of loneliness, which is like, fucking hell. Like, this is, this is not fun. Like,   I would want to be with someone right now.   And that was where it was like, oh, yeah. Like,   I didn't even have a picture   of a person per se. It was just like anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be with anyone right now. I think the important thing for anyone who's listening to this as well, it's like  

[01:08:31] Juan Granados:

being real that as humans, the inversals happens a lot as well. Right? Like you will you will also have people who are in There's someone walking around during the daytime and there's people around that just feel Yeah. They're like, oh my god. Oh, or you have someone who's   not in a relationship. You're like, you're in a family and a big family or like five kids, something like that. They're like, you're one of five kids. And I just want some space. It's one load, you want quietness. So, you know,   the the opposing thing can happen. And I think important in those sort of situations, it's like,   one, like it does, like there's nothing you can do around that. But then it's, it's the making sure that   because those things happen, you then don't just leap into fulfilling that particular hole with any random or person because for sure where you find the   as an external,   you'd be like, what the hell? Why is that person with this person? And the answer is, well, they just want to fulfill the bit of not being lonely. Right. And it's it's an acceptable thing   to an extent. So it's like that's where it gets slippery fast and you gotta be careful. I think people need to be aware of that where as a human, you'll just want other basic fulfillments that don't even associate to a person. So an advice to a girl, I'm sure they're going to get same thing where you'll feel loneliness in that relation. It's like,   yeah, yeah, there's an expectation to that. Don't let it be the thing though that then drives you to do so   unless it's then getting to such critical point that you're like, okay, actually probably more beneficial to just fucking be dating anybody   because I'd at least it gets you past a bit of the hop of loneliness and into the okay. I'm in the dating space with someone who's not probably my long term person, but now I'm in the hunt to  

[01:10:07] Kyrin Down:

that that pursuit. Yeah. There there is there's certain extents where it's, you know,   I've a friend's friend is,   she's   a 27 year old virgin, and I don't know the full stories behind it, but,   I don't think there's, like, a strong attachment to why she was   like a virgin at that age.   And that's one of those ones where it's like,   you know, if, if, if it's not like a real religious thing, if it's not a,   like, I need to be absolutely sure   of my first time that they're with Mr. Right or something. It's like, man, that's, that's probably like   that's going to cause some real hang ups. The first time you   interact with someone, like, if sex is not   perfect the first time when you've had like such a long time   building up to it, that could be a troubling thing. Yeah. Yeah. That could,   yeah. Certainly be an issue thing.  

Therefore, like, you know, is the advice there for like go sleep with any random dude? No, but,   there's certain things like that where it's like, yeah, the   yeah. Knowing knowing yourself and why you're doing certain actions.  

[01:11:21] Juan Granados:

Look, long story short,  

[01:11:23] Kyrin Down:

as a as a feedback. And the funny thing is, we could look back at this in twenty twenty years, my daughter Vienna's, you know, like 22, she's out in the dating world. The advice could be like, oh, your AI boyfriend's not,   treating you right? Like, ditch him for the Chinese version. And like No. He will be, man. It's like open source models. What are you doing dating a closed source model? Don't be paying for your boyfriend.  

[01:11:46] Juan Granados:

Open source it.   Just just get ads every couple of weeks.   That and don't be fat. That's basically our advice in more lives. Correct.   We'll leave you there.   That's been a wide ranging conversation around dating, specifically   females giving advice to other females, males giving advice to fem females   and doctors giving advice in generality and putting labels on people.   I hope you enjoyed. If you got any other comments, again, feel free to spread them through. You can reach out. Socials, email, you can send off some support to the new models podcast forward.com   forward /support as well to support us in many ways.  

Otherwise, for those who have tuned live, thank you very much. 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on the Sundays. For now, we'll leave it there. Be well wherever you are in the world. One.  

[01:12:29] Kyrin Down:

Alright now. Bye. Good.