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Do we need government to make regulations to protect us from ourselves?

In Episode #391 of 'Musings', Juan & I discuss: the book I'm reading called 'Merchants Of Doubt', the recent crackdown of crypto in Chokepoint 2.0, a list of pros and cons for why regulations should or shouldn't exist, how they differ from rules/laws/protocols/social contracts, why we are both in favour of a smaller government and why Erik Vorhees and Michael Malice should watch their back!

A solitary boostagram from Dave Jones but one much appreciated. Thanks to everyone supporting via streaming as well!

Timeline:
(0:00) - Back in the studio
(0:51) - Why this topic & definition
(4:45) - Market stability & public interest
(11:37) - They stop socialised risk/downsides
(17:34) - Are they optimising for human flourishing
(25:34) - Practicality
(29:55) - Capitalism & anarchy vs communism & dictatorships
(36:28) - Rules of thumb for good regulation
(41:09) - Opt in/out
(44:57) - Juan's summary
(48:27) - Kyrin's summary
(51:41) - Boostagram Lounge
(1:00:31) - V4V: No ads, no paywall


Intro Music by 'Signs Of New Growth':
https://podcastindex.social/@SignsOfNewGrowth

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We can be Mere Mortals.
Oh, yes, indeed.

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We are mere mortals, and we're
at our regular spot

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in the studio.
Back in the studio. Juan's

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graced me with his presence.
I was not expecting,

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so I left him unexpected.
Unexpected outside

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in the cold for a bit.
So we are recording here

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live Wednesday, 7th of June
7 p.m., Australian Eastern

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Standard Time as well.
The seventh for everyone, is it?

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Oh yeah. Nice. That's a
that's worthy of a boost.

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Send in a bunch of sevens
if you feel like doing that.

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And today
we're going to be talking

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about rules and regulations.
So this is our musings

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episodes, a lot more
themed, a lot more strict

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with what
we're going to talk about.

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I've got a bunch of notes.
You've got a bunch of notes.

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So I wouldn't call mine
a bunch of nights,

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but we've got a bunch.
He's got a bunch too.

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It's two is a bunch.
And so let's start off with the

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maybe the definition and also the
I suppose,

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why I came up with this.
Okay, So. Maybe some of the why

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some of the why
before we get to. The. Yeah.

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So mostly it was been
seeing a lot of it with like

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the crypto industry recently hit
you know choke point 2.0

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are rules and regulations
that are coming down we saw today

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ChokePoint 2.0 you haven't
I haven't heard this?

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Okay so choke point 2.0
I was basically the

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systematic enforcement of
or shutting down of things

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particularly in the US related
to being able to these

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kind of like middlemen.
So this is the binance.us

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Coinbase and whatnot.
And basically

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starting to shut down
of access to services for

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regular people to. Go out to get.
So it's the site. So it's a term

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the choke point 2.0
is the kind of the, the US

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daddy federal government
going after these exchanges

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for the brokers
of getting the crypto

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card. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And then in by and large

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just anything crypto related.
So the whole bunch of bank

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failures as some of them,
from what I can tell,

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didn't actually need
to go into receivership.

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But because they had a
strong crypto base

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and things like that of, of
crypto businesses

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using their services,
they kind of especially

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targeted those banks
maybe a little bit

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conspiracy theory, who knows?
But that's it follows the general

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trend of what's going on.
And as I. Said, that's okay.

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So that's one aspect of of what
got you thinking about it.

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And as I said just today,
Binance and Coinbase.

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Binance yesterday, Coinbase
today got served

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some some notices.
Notices, news by the FCC.

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That they've been told some
which is the.

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Securities Security Exchange
Commission in the U.S..

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Right? Yeah. So that was
one of the things

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as a couple other stuff
and I'll be bringing up

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some some books for example,
and other little notes

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which have been on my mind.
Just for the people

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who didn't see that
they're listening

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to by audio book.
Is this is called

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Merchants of Doubt
and I'll talk about that soon.

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So definition the best one
I found was legal

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restrictions promulgated
by a government authority.

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So it's kind of. Like government
like government dictated.

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That's what I primarily
wanted to focus on today.

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And look, you can get into the
semantics of all of this

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because that kind of similar
unwritten social contract

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versus a protocol versus
a namespace versus rules versus

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regulations versus laws,
you know, what's the difference

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between all of them? I've kind of
the lists that I just gave

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that was my kind of rank
ordering of rules and just

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the general sense of
you should do this thing and

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then write that by roughly
what I think

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is the most strictest,
highest level sort of thing.

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So a law that's obviously
highest level,

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it's probably the most
well defined,

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it's probably the most one
with the most impact. You know,

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you do something bad, you
go to jail for a long time.

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Unwritten social contracts,
you know,

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this is all of the things
that you shouldn't do. You know,

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I shouldn't go up to the
someone spit pass their face

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so it doesn't hit them.
There's been no breaking of

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there's probably not
a law related to spitting

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past someone's ear.
But, you know. You should be.

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Yes. So I put regulations
kind of like

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just underneath laws,
as in the district.

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But they're not
that if you can appeal

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to a higher authority,
if you feel it's unfair,

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which is what Coinbase
and Binance and whatnot will do,

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they'll they'll go to
the actual legal system

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in the US and start fighting
a bunch of the things

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that have come down.
So that's the main reason

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I wanted to bring up today.
Oh, I saw you had a bunch of pros

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so I wanted I want to know about
your pros four. Yeah. Okay.

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So this regulations that
again, we're talking about,

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you know, government's
regulating.

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I kind of hate to use salt.
I'll talk about the second

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one first and the first one,
which is the market stability.

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So this is regulation.
Now. By and large, I can see the

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I can see the conversation
being had around

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laws and regulations.
But also I can see in my

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my way in the market stability
that you can have

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with the regulations
and laws being in place.

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What does that mean?
I guess a clear example

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and we've just talked about it,
Bitcoin and it's very,

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very early days
was wildly roller coaster,

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if you want
to compare it to today's.

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Well it was just go up
way high and went lower but the

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market cap at that time
dictated that it was very easily

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influenced by who else.
We had enough capital.

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If you look hard you could
probably move around.

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Already does.
In fact, he already,

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whenever he tells me
he's going to buy

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the monitor full
and I swear top of diapers

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after the day after bath
and it always happens.

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It always happens.
But, you know, in

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in this perspective,
obviously Bitcoin not being

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a big amount capsule of it.
It's harder to do that than one.

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But and this is a differentiation
that because they had some

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governance in play
anyway embedded in

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the system itself of Bitcoin
but with government

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and rules and regulations
as a in society or in the systems

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that we play
in, say in the fiat systems

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and everything else,
it gives some market stability.

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Without it, you could have
a very good conversation

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as to, hey,
without someone following up

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like a figure
what the Australian one is,

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but a regulator,
then you would. Have more.

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Shadiness and
crazy stuff happening

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and things like the share
market or the gold market

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or the derivatives
trading market.

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You would just have people
who have a lot more assets

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buying power,
absolutely dominating

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and destroying people
even more beyond

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what you can do right now.
Or you could have insider

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trading going absolutely bananas
and people being absolutely taken

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for a spin with all the money
being siphoned

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more than we currently have.
But a regulation there in place,

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I can see the point behind it.
It's helping

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to at least provide either
a guise or

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reality of a more of a base
field of playing in it.

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Again, how much it does
can deviate, obviously,

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on the level of speculation
of the market, how much

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stable, how long it's been.
But at least it gives you,

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whether it's a perceived
or a real some sort of base

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regulation that does help.
So that's that's the positive

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that you can be seen at.
I could see I could see that

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I would hate
to play in the share market

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if I knew or maybe perceive
that I had no ability

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really to win
because or to succeed

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because someone else
had just more leverage

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or more knowledge
or something like that knowledge.

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That is a very direct example.
Insider trading. If you

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knew that company for us,
BHP, if you knew BHP

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were next month, going to blow up
all of their main sites just fine

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and they were going
into the fireworks business,

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but you could make a pretty
good trade for that. Roster,

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a more realistic one.
There's a tailings dam

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which is just burst.
They usually try

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and keep this news
in Brazil, for example.

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This happened a few years ago
that that news doesn't

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get out into
the general public as quick.

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So if you're loss you don't able
plus you're not as an executive

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in those companies
can't go on and act

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on something like this
for your own benefit right

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that it's illegal
or tried to prevent be prevented.

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And again, you get around it.
But regulations and laws

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are in place to at least
try to prevent that

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so it doesn't go and discourage
the participation

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of everyone else in the market.
That's that's one positive

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I could see. And the other one
that I noted was

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the actual public interest.
So this is more of the kind

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of the the common good.
So well write specifically

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was it serves the public interest
by providing essential

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services and infrastructure
that may otherwise

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be under provided
by the private sector. Yet it's

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a in the private sector and
this could go either way, but

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at least put it in the pros
is that if enough people

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in the private sector,
given that there wouldn't

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be a government
regulating this up,

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providing services or assets
or items for people

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and all of a sudden it doesn't
do nice, Let's just go with

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it doesn't
let's have a bus service.

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A bus service doesn't
go on service.

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70 people who live in
a mountain because it's not

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efficient doesn't make the money,
whatever it may be.

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You shut out a lot of
people in the mountains

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going drive a car.
However, from a government

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perspective now, I don't know
if that's true or not,

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but I know personally
that in some local

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government spaces
there's a regulation

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where you have to go and service
X amount of people

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from such and such distance
and they'll set up,

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you know, very inefficient
bus lines to go on service

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those people
because they have to do so

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by a particular regulation.
Now there I go. Okay.

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Without that regulation in place,
and that's

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through a government agency,
really

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from a private perspective,
it wouldn't be supporting those.

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And so you can kind of
get a bit of an imbalance

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between what's
kept from a capitalist

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perspective effective,
efficient good

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for these companies versus
trying to do

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so for the better good,
which can often be to the neglect

202
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of the economical
benefit to the company.

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So there's probably a two
that I know to be okay.

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You can make a good view
of why we need

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a level of government
regulation law to support.

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I mean, the third one,
a big one, I didn't list.

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They would be laws
in the extreme cases,

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murder, rapes, things
that we as a society

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and from a just judicial system
go, okay, that's where

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we've drawn the boundary
in our societal constructs.

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Go beyond that.
We need these laws in place to go

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and take some sort of effect
and also to

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encourage people not to go
and do those bad deeds,

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to give them
some sort of punishment.

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If you were to go beyond
that line, yeah,

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we have that mandated law. Again,
it comes down to either

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a private or civil society
that is holding

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people to that standard
with saying it can be deviated

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based on who holds the
the power of the influence.

220
00:10:56,529 --> 00:11:01,534
Yeah, I'd.
Distinguish that one because

221
00:10:58,990 --> 00:11:04,538
I think that is kind of
in the well-established

222
00:11:01,534 --> 00:11:06,581
law system and stuff.
And it would be more along

223
00:11:06,581 --> 00:11:10,378
the lines of you're
not allowed to a regulation

224
00:11:10,378 --> 00:11:14,465
would be more something along
the lines of you're

225
00:11:11,586 --> 00:11:17,467
only allowed to have a
a shotgun barrel sawed off

226
00:11:14,465 --> 00:11:18,552
to this certain election
or something like that.

227
00:11:18,552 --> 00:11:22,431
Whereas obviously the laws
of not killing and murder

228
00:11:22,431 --> 00:11:25,058
and rape and things like
that, they're they're really

229
00:11:25,058 --> 00:11:26,434
they're
they're a lot more stricter.

230
00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:28,479
And I think.
We got a little well defined

231
00:11:28,479 --> 00:11:30,230
we can put into the side
of those established.

232
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:34,567
We're not having an articulate
commentary

233
00:11:31,731 --> 00:11:36,696
here on on those. Correct.
Anyway, those are some of

234
00:11:34,567 --> 00:11:39,698
the positive kind of.
So I have some here

235
00:11:36,696 --> 00:11:42,158
which were, I suppose,
prose as well, which is

236
00:11:42,158 --> 00:11:45,453
probably going to be rare
because I'm going to rip

237
00:11:45,453 --> 00:11:47,914
into the cons when it
when I get to that section.

238
00:11:47,914 --> 00:11:49,958
But I thought I'd try
and give it.

239
00:11:49,958 --> 00:11:54,462
A shot, give it some.
Ideas as to why regulations

240
00:11:51,376 --> 00:11:56,590
are a good thing.
So in this book here

241
00:11:54,462 --> 00:11:57,633
at the moment
called Merchants of Doubt

242
00:11:57,633 --> 00:12:02,221
by Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway,
how a handful of scientists

243
00:12:02,221 --> 00:12:06,142
obscured the truth on issues
from tobacco

244
00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:09,061
smoke to climate Change.
And what's

245
00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:11,647
kind of concerning about
this book is

246
00:12:09,061 --> 00:12:15,567
you can kind of see how
the scientific processes

247
00:12:11,647 --> 00:12:18,571
disrupted
by a couple of individuals

248
00:12:15,567 --> 00:12:20,405
who are well within it,
the scientists themselves,

249
00:12:20,405 --> 00:12:26,370
and they kind of mess it up by
throwing doubt onto things.

250
00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:31,500
So making it seem
as if there's a real debate

251
00:12:27,788 --> 00:12:36,755
as to whether inhaling
tar into your lungs is going

252
00:12:32,208 --> 00:12:40,467
to have not have any
negative effects or that

253
00:12:36,755 --> 00:12:42,552
that's one of the big ones.
The what's the root cause of acid

254
00:12:42,552 --> 00:12:46,514
rain, for example,
It was, you know, throwing

255
00:12:43,928 --> 00:12:48,350
particulates into the air.
And what they found was

256
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:53,647
the science was was
pretty good at determining, okay,

257
00:12:50,894 --> 00:12:54,190
this is the cause of it.
You know,

258
00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:58,152
the what's causing the holes
in the ozone layer. It's this

259
00:12:58,152 --> 00:12:59,861
I think it's
I can't remember the name

260
00:12:59,861 --> 00:13:03,490
exactly pops
or P as a type of chemical

261
00:13:03,490 --> 00:13:07,285
that was used as refrigerants,
especially in fridges and stuff.

262
00:13:07,285 --> 00:13:10,706
That was the thing
that was really causing

263
00:13:10,706 --> 00:13:12,917
the hole in the ozone layer
and that could prove it.

264
00:13:14,043 --> 00:13:19,548
But there was enough scientists
kind of with agendas

265
00:13:16,544 --> 00:13:20,633
of their own being funded by
the tobacco company

266
00:13:20,633 --> 00:13:23,635
or the energy utility
companies who wanted to go.

267
00:13:24,385 --> 00:13:28,139
We don't want to spend that
extra money

268
00:13:25,428 --> 00:13:29,892
on reducing particulates
in the air or things like this.

269
00:13:29,892 --> 00:13:32,352
Now, how does this kind
of relate to regulations?

270
00:13:32,352 --> 00:13:38,442
Well, it's kind of touching upon,
I suppose, government policies

271
00:13:38,442 --> 00:13:43,279
where you can't have
a super strict law

272
00:13:40,277 --> 00:13:46,575
and is getting towards that.
The socialising

273
00:13:44,405 --> 00:13:49,245
risks and downsides
which humans are good at doing.

274
00:13:49,245 --> 00:13:55,793
I can whip up an energy company
as, you know, pollute

275
00:13:52,789 --> 00:13:59,379
all the waters, the stream
that's I'm upstream of,

276
00:13:55,793 --> 00:14:01,130
you know, whatever. Let's say
it's like a hydroelectric

277
00:14:01,130 --> 00:14:05,134
plant or something
and I'm using a bunch

278
00:14:02,383 --> 00:14:08,138
of chemicals as well to
oil the machines or whatnot.

279
00:14:08,138 --> 00:14:11,350
And I just chucked that in,
you know, instead of making sure

280
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:12,934
that it's it's
not getting into the water.

281
00:14:12,934 --> 00:14:15,937
So I just chucked that
in turbine blades

282
00:14:16,437 --> 00:14:19,357
that fast, faster.
Now people down, the farmers

283
00:14:19,357 --> 00:14:23,653
down the road of the stream,
you know, they get all this shit

284
00:14:21,818 --> 00:14:25,364
in their water
so it's really trying

285
00:14:23,653 --> 00:14:28,576
to address that.
Yes. Socialising, risk

286
00:14:25,364 --> 00:14:31,370
or socialising the downsides
but you're getting

287
00:14:29,076 --> 00:14:33,288
all the profits
which is I suppose,

288
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:35,291
one of the nastier and uglier
sides of capitalism.

289
00:14:35,291 --> 00:14:40,004
And this is where I kind of go.
Yeah, okay. This is where yeah,

290
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:43,048
you might want regulatory bodies
coming in and saying no

291
00:14:43,548 --> 00:14:47,469
if, if there's this amount
of particulates in the water

292
00:14:48,095 --> 00:14:52,850
and you're upstream from that,
you need to sort out

293
00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:54,934
your shit and you need to,
you know, make sure

294
00:14:53,225 --> 00:14:56,562
that it's not getting above
a certain level and whatnot.

295
00:14:56,562 --> 00:14:59,856
So I can really see that
said, that one argument of

296
00:15:00,441 --> 00:15:02,985
especially when it's
environmental things

297
00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:05,863
or it's very obvious,
you know, it's

298
00:15:05,863 --> 00:15:07,405
those intangible things
we all need,

299
00:15:07,405 --> 00:15:10,326
we all need air, we all need
kind of clean water.

300
00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:13,620
But people can screw that up
or companies can

301
00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:19,335
screw that up. And there's no
there's no recourse for that

302
00:15:17,124 --> 00:15:20,126
as the individual.
And this is where you do

303
00:15:20,126 --> 00:15:23,129
need big daddy government
coming in and saying,

304
00:15:23,297 --> 00:15:26,008
Sure, sort your shit up now,
no more of that.

305
00:15:26,008 --> 00:15:27,676
So that's definitely
one of the ones where I'm

306
00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,678
I'm kind of amenable. Supportive,
a metaphor for it again.

307
00:15:30,678 --> 00:15:34,182
So it things like airline
safety, road widths,

308
00:15:34,390 --> 00:15:37,436
speed limits, you know,
electrical fire standards

309
00:15:37,436 --> 00:15:42,149
for housing and things like that.
Those are also ones

310
00:15:39,270 --> 00:15:44,360
where I kind of go
I'm I'm all on the fence

311
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,363
of Yeah that that can be
a lot of pros to that.

312
00:15:47,446 --> 00:15:54,160
It saves it saves lives.
And I suppose the

313
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:58,081
the big debate here is also,
you know, capitalism,

314
00:15:54,370 --> 00:16:02,086
unbridled capitalism. You know,
that kind of assumes just

315
00:15:58,874 --> 00:16:04,672
everything is market based.
Everything has a cost

316
00:16:02,086 --> 00:16:07,091
or a value to it.
And we just trade

317
00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:09,759
on that back and forth.
And I think the thing with

318
00:16:07,091 --> 00:16:11,470
that is you can trade
people's lives like that

319
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:13,889
if you wanted to and
make people a dollar sign.

320
00:16:13,889 --> 00:16:18,268
And in that book, The Second
Curve by Charles Handy,

321
00:16:18,769 --> 00:16:22,605
he kind of addresses
this and is and says, you know

322
00:16:22,605 --> 00:16:27,860
most people don't want to be seen
as a dollar sign

323
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:30,447
as merely a value
that can be traded back and

324
00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:33,741
forth. They do want to have
an acknowledgement

325
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:35,410
that they're an individual,
that they're worthy of

326
00:16:35,410 --> 00:16:38,621
the general, you know,
not being murdered,

327
00:16:38,621 --> 00:16:42,583
for example, or
having equal rights

328
00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:45,169
that everyone else
has equal access

329
00:16:42,583 --> 00:16:46,797
to opportunities.
So that's that's one.

330
00:16:46,797 --> 00:16:51,217
But then I go, you know, there's
just so many downsides

331
00:16:51,217 --> 00:16:58,017
that I see of of regulations
where it is overreaching

332
00:16:55,014 --> 00:17:02,145
or you brought up that was one
you brought up before, which

333
00:16:59,976 --> 00:17:04,897
I was going to touch on the
you know, making sure

334
00:17:02,145 --> 00:17:05,648
that insiders aren't trading
great. We've got some

335
00:17:05,648 --> 00:17:09,569
regulations in place yet
I saw on Twitter today.

336
00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:13,615
So I don't know how verified
this is, but someone put

337
00:17:14,324 --> 00:17:18,244
like 100 K short options
for the next four days

338
00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:25,001
starting yesterday
on Coinbase's coin. And you know,

339
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:28,005
they made millions
from that because

340
00:17:25,001 --> 00:17:31,424
obviously with all the news
Coin. Coinbase's coin

341
00:17:28,297 --> 00:17:32,550
token thing just dropped
ridiculous. And

342
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,263
so are those regulations
actually having an impact?

343
00:17:37,472 --> 00:17:39,892
Are they actually doing anything?
What do you

344
00:17:38,682 --> 00:17:42,644
what do you think about that
or the. Well, having the.

345
00:17:42,644 --> 00:17:45,605
The practicality sense,
are they actually practical,

346
00:17:45,605 --> 00:17:47,441
Right. Regulations
just in general?

347
00:17:47,441 --> 00:17:49,984
So like, of all the things
I mentioned,

348
00:17:49,984 --> 00:17:54,906
do they actually help because
there's a cost to them.

349
00:17:54,906 --> 00:17:59,368
If you if you tell people
you can't pollute in the waters.

350
00:17:59,368 --> 00:18:03,207
Yeah. There's an economic cost
to that or

351
00:18:03,207 --> 00:18:06,335
there's a cost of some sort
further up the stream.

352
00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:09,462
Those, those companies
who are dumping stuff

353
00:18:09,462 --> 00:18:13,467
in the water,
those companies that are

354
00:18:10,463 --> 00:18:16,053
putting stuff into the air,
those companies

355
00:18:13,717 --> 00:18:17,054
that are selling stuff
that people want,

356
00:18:17,054 --> 00:18:19,056
they want the coin token,
they want

357
00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:22,934
all those coins in the main
coins and stuff. They want

358
00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:26,980
the Bitcoin as well. Is it okay?
Is it practical to come in

359
00:18:25,061 --> 00:18:29,107
and regulate? Is does it
generally have good effects?

360
00:18:29,107 --> 00:18:34,195
Yeah. Okay. I think look,
I had a note about the cons

361
00:18:34,195 --> 00:18:37,574
and I only wrote one
and there was another piece

362
00:18:35,489 --> 00:18:40,576
about overregulation.
But then those as you're

363
00:18:37,574 --> 00:18:43,038
talking to throw in, I think of
in somewhere else,

364
00:18:43,038 --> 00:18:44,705
a lot of them were different
in my thoughts

365
00:18:44,705 --> 00:18:48,417
and you kind of kind of guys
on the question of okay,

366
00:18:48,417 --> 00:18:53,464
well what do we think about it?
And ultimately, when

367
00:18:50,503 --> 00:18:56,676
we think about regulation,
regulation could come in

368
00:18:54,215 --> 00:18:58,720
from your definition,
could be from a government

369
00:18:56,676 --> 00:19:01,515
perspective, Right.
But you can have regulations

370
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:05,769
from a private company,
as in Apple

371
00:19:01,515 --> 00:19:07,104
regulates the app platform
and what you can put into it

372
00:19:07,104 --> 00:19:10,315
and the payments to go through,
that's a regulation

373
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,316
through a private company.
So you can have

374
00:19:10,315 --> 00:19:12,401
a private company,
you can have government.

375
00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:16,654
My roommate works for them.
She's allowed to buy

376
00:19:13,609 --> 00:19:18,740
a certain amount of products
from them for a kind of discount.

377
00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:21,742
But if they find her
catching, if they catch her

378
00:19:22,118 --> 00:19:27,165
selling stuff on to someone big.
No, no. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

379
00:19:27,165 --> 00:19:31,586
Regulate it out of those systems.
You don't own Apple right now.

380
00:19:31,961 --> 00:19:36,133
So I guess.
Okay, so it's not not it's

381
00:19:32,421 --> 00:19:36,717
not a government versus
private company

382
00:19:36,717 --> 00:19:38,634
because you can have
regulations across both

383
00:19:38,634 --> 00:19:40,804
and you could have
regulations from a king. Right.

384
00:19:40,804 --> 00:19:43,265
We go way back many,
many hundreds of years ago.

385
00:19:43,265 --> 00:19:45,349
Mean we you go down
that path into the future.

386
00:19:45,349 --> 00:19:47,769
You could have it in
different political groups.

387
00:19:47,769 --> 00:19:52,023
You can have regulations
and laws. So as you were saying

388
00:19:49,354 --> 00:19:55,027
that ago, well, it ultimately,
I think, falls on to

389
00:19:55,027 --> 00:19:57,403
what the outcome
is of the regulation

390
00:19:57,403 --> 00:20:01,450
or what the optimisation
is. What regulation will it

391
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:04,411
is it beneficial and is it
good in the end,

392
00:20:04,411 --> 00:20:07,497
like we're talking
about here with SEC, SEC

393
00:20:07,497 --> 00:20:12,669
and Coinbase and everything else?
I go it could be if optimising

394
00:20:13,086 --> 00:20:18,008
for the correct thing,
but the key piece that I

395
00:20:14,587 --> 00:20:21,345
think will always fail us is
two things. One, the viewpoint

396
00:20:19,134 --> 00:20:22,679
of who actually saying
that that particular outcome

397
00:20:22,679 --> 00:20:24,932
or what we're optimising for
is the right thing

398
00:20:24,932 --> 00:20:26,933
or it's a good thing
or the best thing,

399
00:20:26,933 --> 00:20:32,980
but to its underlying and serves
for end

400
00:20:29,978 --> 00:20:34,900
to end empowered by humans,
I mean, and so

401
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:41,615
let's just take an instance
for something like the SCC was it

402
00:20:38,778 --> 00:20:44,660
was it probably driven
by some sort of algorithm

403
00:20:41,615 --> 00:20:47,537
or the base foundational,
you know, what is being met

404
00:20:45,535 --> 00:20:49,330
not meant based
on particular criteria

405
00:20:47,537 --> 00:20:54,126
to be done? Or is it probably
that regulation was enforced upon

406
00:20:51,124 --> 00:20:56,171
by also a human directive
I kind of guidance thing

407
00:20:54,294 --> 00:20:58,257
and we don't know. There's
probably a human directive

408
00:20:56,171 --> 00:20:59,090
much more human and.
Definitely for. Them.

409
00:20:59,090 --> 00:21:04,512
Yeah, right. So and I go,
you could probably make

410
00:21:01,509 --> 00:21:08,307
a very, very good case that
across the board where we

411
00:21:04,887 --> 00:21:09,518
gave example of regulations which
we think is a good thing,

412
00:21:10,477 --> 00:21:15,398
the probably the
either the, the lucky

413
00:21:11,979 --> 00:21:18,402
or the happy selection where
either a human directive

414
00:21:15,648 --> 00:21:20,862
or it was a
a regulation that came from

415
00:21:18,402 --> 00:21:22,364
a statistical perspective
to achieve the best

416
00:21:22,364 --> 00:21:27,411
outcome or optimisation
for humanity. Or was it even.

417
00:21:27,411 --> 00:21:30,663
Fleischman Hey,
is optimising for that cool?

418
00:21:30,663 --> 00:21:34,542
I think most people will say
that same thing goes

419
00:21:31,539 --> 00:21:35,751
for very strong lawns around
murder and killing and all that.

420
00:21:35,751 --> 00:21:38,587
Hey, we're optimising
for what we want

421
00:21:36,795 --> 00:21:40,132
humans to be doing because
we want to kill each other.

422
00:21:40,132 --> 00:21:44,885
But then I go, Hey,
you start regulating things

423
00:21:40,923 --> 00:21:48,723
like a coin, or let's just take,
for instance, regulating

424
00:21:46,887 --> 00:21:50,224
the way we speak, right?
So we're talking about

425
00:21:50,224 --> 00:21:52,935
you're not allowed to say these,
let's me because it offends me.

426
00:21:52,935 --> 00:21:56,981
We're going to regulate that.
But if you're within 500

427
00:21:53,936 --> 00:22:00,152
metres of me, Canada style,
I can charge you for saying,

428
00:21:57,148 --> 00:22:01,569
Have you heard about this?
I don't know

429
00:22:00,192 --> 00:22:03,488
the full details, but it was
I don't know if they fully

430
00:22:01,569 --> 00:22:05,865
implemented it, but if you you
can be offended by someone

431
00:22:07,701 --> 00:22:10,537
like going out and speaking
against what you believe

432
00:22:10,537 --> 00:22:13,289
and you can charge them
and they can be 500 metres

433
00:22:11,829 --> 00:22:15,834
away from you,
you can still chop the money

434
00:22:13,289 --> 00:22:16,710
because a too close to
something inside.

435
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:19,003
Look at all the details
if you want a more.

436
00:22:19,003 --> 00:22:22,298
Pertinent and relevant
one is a lot of YouTubers

437
00:22:22,298 --> 00:22:26,595
will not say the words covered.
They'll not say the word suicide,

438
00:22:26,595 --> 00:22:32,893
they'll not say the word rape
because their videos

439
00:22:29,847 --> 00:22:36,313
get demonetised
and probably the algorithms

440
00:22:32,893 --> 00:22:38,606
also hit them down.
Not sales is now negative

441
00:22:36,395 --> 00:22:40,901
to these on YouTube sites.
Thank you very much.

442
00:22:38,606 --> 00:22:45,071
I don't give a fuck but.
You know and it goes again

443
00:22:40,901 --> 00:22:48,075
again want a we optimising
ultimately for some

444
00:22:45,071 --> 00:22:51,036
some of these regulations
some we might not understand

445
00:22:48,366 --> 00:22:54,873
but of course as
I'm talking everyone society

446
00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:58,167
I might be the best good
but there is some clear ones

447
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:58,794
which I would go hey,
I don't know

448
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,878
if this has actually been
approved a benefit.

449
00:23:00,878 --> 00:23:03,882
Yeah, you know,
I don't know exactly

450
00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:04,840
who might be benefiting
from that perspective.

451
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,844
I'm talking here
with Coinbase and Binance,

452
00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:11,056
but it might ultimately,
if you dig down benefit,

453
00:23:11,347 --> 00:23:12,766
hey, the federal government,
the big daddy

454
00:23:12,766 --> 00:23:14,683
that these want to get
a little bit of this income

455
00:23:13,266 --> 00:23:15,684
coming through to them
because they know getting some

456
00:23:15,684 --> 00:23:17,561
there might be
some aspects to that.

457
00:23:17,561 --> 00:23:22,401
Now when we start talking
about in those layers it goes

458
00:23:20,773 --> 00:23:25,612
well you don't really benefiting
human flourishing here. You're

459
00:23:24,111 --> 00:23:27,196
probably just benefiting.
You. In particular for this

460
00:23:28,155 --> 00:23:31,576
kind of
view if you want to actually

461
00:23:29,490 --> 00:23:33,494
look at it holistically.
Same can be said about debt

462
00:23:33,494 --> 00:23:37,958
ceiling conversation, right?
So just recently

463
00:23:34,746 --> 00:23:39,459
the US signed up to, Hey,
let's raise the debt ceiling

464
00:23:39,459 --> 00:23:42,045
so we no longer
have an issue about

465
00:23:42,045 --> 00:23:44,631
hitting our debt to high.
We just made it go higher. Yeah.

466
00:23:44,631 --> 00:23:46,424
Again, whose is ultimately
benefiting

467
00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:49,176
and I think the regulation
or the laws they go

468
00:23:49,176 --> 00:23:52,055
you might look at it
in the face of it and go, hey.

469
00:23:52,055 --> 00:23:53,347
This is a good thing.
Because you know,

470
00:23:53,347 --> 00:23:55,392
it's not going to
turn the economy to waste

471
00:23:55,392 --> 00:23:57,602
and we're not going to have
a hot landing or hey,

472
00:23:57,602 --> 00:24:00,564
it's going to help me out
at the face value.

473
00:24:00,564 --> 00:24:02,857
But if you extrapolate
and you look at it

474
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,026
more long term,
then you can start

475
00:24:02,857 --> 00:24:06,819
looking at the view of, hey,
actually this is probably

476
00:24:06,819 --> 00:24:10,865
just helping out people in power.
So it doesn't tend to sit

477
00:24:08,779 --> 00:24:12,659
right there,
but it's just pushing,

478
00:24:10,865 --> 00:24:15,912
kicking the can down
the road is is going to be

479
00:24:12,659 --> 00:24:19,207
an even bigger problem
for most people in society

480
00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:20,166
way down the line.
And someone can decide,

481
00:24:20,166 --> 00:24:23,044
So someone's going to have
to go and figure that out.

482
00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:26,714
So that's probably where I go
in looking at most of the cons

483
00:24:26,714 --> 00:24:29,509
because I had a couple list
there in my mind, but I go,

484
00:24:30,551 --> 00:24:33,762
Honestly, it probably just
falls down the line of it's

485
00:24:33,762 --> 00:24:35,891
the ones that are being optimised
for the wrong things,

486
00:24:35,891 --> 00:24:38,894
or at least what you and me
might consider. Hey,

487
00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:41,480
we're not optimising here
for the right thing.

488
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,940
We're optimising here
for profit, for greed,

489
00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:47,109
for people in power
are people wanting to

490
00:24:45,025 --> 00:24:50,321
do things and then not
extrapolating goes across

491
00:24:47,109 --> 00:24:52,031
to their kingdoms and people
who are being led in like

492
00:24:52,031 --> 00:24:54,451
from a sovereign perspective
by dictators

493
00:24:54,451 --> 00:24:56,161
because they sure as heck
are putting some regulation

494
00:24:56,161 --> 00:25:00,248
to law, which to me and you
and most of the people

495
00:24:57,953 --> 00:25:02,000
listening to our podcast
would go, okay,

496
00:25:00,248 --> 00:25:03,585
that makes no sense. But hey,
they've got regulations

497
00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:05,586
and they're optimised
probably to serve the king

498
00:25:05,586 --> 00:25:10,090
and the power that say
and channel assets, whatever

499
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:11,884
you want to call it, you know,
sexual favours, blah, blah, blah,

500
00:25:11,884 --> 00:25:14,386
all through
to particular individuals.

501
00:25:14,386 --> 00:25:16,890
And then I go, okay, well
what defines that to be bad?

502
00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:19,726
Because optimising
probably for not the most

503
00:25:19,726 --> 00:25:23,480
human Fleishman is human
for of a couple of people. Yeah.

504
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,481
I mean, there's so many
things to touch upon there

505
00:25:27,107 --> 00:25:28,652
and I'm
thinking we'll just do that

506
00:25:28,652 --> 00:25:31,988
Gremlins right at the end.
This one does it just dumb

507
00:25:29,653 --> 00:25:36,867
Yep do that.
So for me, the practicality

508
00:25:31,988 --> 00:25:38,912
aspect is is pretty huge.
And I've been influenced

509
00:25:36,867 --> 00:25:40,497
pretty strongly
by Eric Voorhees on this.

510
00:25:40,497 --> 00:25:47,002
So he is a super, super
probably the hardest libertarian

511
00:25:45,042 --> 00:25:50,673
that I've seen in the sense
that the libertarian is,

512
00:25:47,002 --> 00:25:53,134
you know, government is bad
and that,

513
00:25:53,134 --> 00:25:55,929
you know, smaller government
is better to the max.

514
00:25:55,929 --> 00:25:58,765
And Eric for he's
the one who comments

515
00:25:58,765 --> 00:26:02,685
and says that
he doesn't necessarily

516
00:25:59,682 --> 00:26:04,436
want government to disappear
but just to grow smaller year on.

517
00:26:04,436 --> 00:26:09,901
Year probably I'd
look I think he's he's.

518
00:26:10,151 --> 00:26:14,196
Totally he was pretty.
Close pretty close to

519
00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:18,201
no government so
I can't say for sure on that

520
00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:20,494
but he's is the closest
I've seen apart from someone

521
00:26:20,494 --> 00:26:24,958
like Michael Malice
who is a complete. Anarchist. No.

522
00:26:24,958 --> 00:26:27,501
A government is totally bad.
All of it needs to go

523
00:26:28,627 --> 00:26:33,173
and yeah I would I would
say he's on the

524
00:26:30,462 --> 00:26:36,385
is pretty close to that view
so and Eric for his

525
00:26:33,173 --> 00:26:37,596
for those who don't know
he was the guy

526
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:40,598
who created a company called
Satoshi Dice.

527
00:26:40,932 --> 00:26:44,560
It was one of the very
earliest Bitcoin companies

528
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,022
I suppose where you could do
gambling. So that pissed off

529
00:26:46,104 --> 00:26:49,732
a lot of people
because he was clogging up

530
00:26:48,022 --> 00:26:51,483
the blockchain
and everyone hated him

531
00:26:49,732 --> 00:26:54,487
for not ever.
A bunch of people were

532
00:26:51,483 --> 00:26:56,573
getting in a tizzy about it
and saying,

533
00:26:55,113 --> 00:26:58,950
you know, he was taking up
all the block space

534
00:26:56,573 --> 00:27:02,162
and whatnot for,
you know, non useful

535
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:05,914
economic transactions
because they considered

536
00:27:02,494 --> 00:27:07,459
gambling non useful and
ended up selling that.

537
00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:11,211
And he's been just a pretty
big proponent of the,

538
00:27:11,462 --> 00:27:13,839
I would say,
cryptocurrencies as a whole.

539
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:16,843
It used to be I suppose
like ardent bitcoin

540
00:27:16,925 --> 00:27:19,596
and then when Etherium
and other stuff came along a

541
00:27:19,596 --> 00:27:21,306
he kind of got into them
and he'll,

542
00:27:21,306 --> 00:27:24,476
he'll talk about them. Okay.
Well it's still probably

543
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:30,190
very, very
influential Bitcoin wise. It like

544
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,941
I put him on the same level
as kind of Andreas Antonopoulos

545
00:27:31,941 --> 00:27:35,862
in terms of education,
in terms of what he's done

546
00:27:36,528 --> 00:27:40,991
for the industry.
But the slightly different

547
00:27:37,989 --> 00:27:44,621
path anyway, he talked so much
about the practicality

548
00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:50,167
of of this stuff
and you know it's great

549
00:27:45,913 --> 00:27:53,171
in practical in in theory
but in practice it's awful

550
00:27:50,167 --> 00:27:54,838
kind of like communism.
So when we think about

551
00:27:54,838 --> 00:27:59,719
where is a lot
of regulations, well, we look at,

552
00:27:56,715 --> 00:28:03,263
you know, big government
trying to just

553
00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:04,766
just government bloat. You know,
we need all of these

554
00:28:04,766 --> 00:28:08,560
these the EPA, we need these
all these agencies

555
00:28:06,643 --> 00:28:10,855
because we need
someone needs to enforce

556
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,981
all these regulations.
So it's kind of like

557
00:28:10,855 --> 00:28:16,318
bloated government. You see it
with zombie companies

558
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:18,988
where the money is getting
screwed around,

559
00:28:16,318 --> 00:28:20,406
where companies are kind of
just hanging on.

560
00:28:20,406 --> 00:28:23,701
They should have died
a long time ago. But, you know,

561
00:28:23,701 --> 00:28:25,494
through these regulations,
through those ones,

562
00:28:25,494 --> 00:28:28,664
they can kind of just limp along.
You see it with the drug wars.

563
00:28:28,664 --> 00:28:31,334
That's pretty big one.
You know, regulations

564
00:28:31,334 --> 00:28:35,171
didn't do a whole lot
and it just screwed up,

565
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:38,383
you know, Colombia
for a long time screwed up

566
00:28:38,424 --> 00:28:42,429
Peru and also, you know,
huge portions

567
00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:44,346
of the black community
with crack cocaine

568
00:28:44,346 --> 00:28:49,227
coming into the US and whatnot.
So the drug wars, that's that

569
00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:50,979
that's one of the I think like
the biggest ones

570
00:28:50,979 --> 00:28:53,647
where you can just say,
like for all the regulations

571
00:28:53,647 --> 00:28:58,569
didn't have much practical
benefit it the the cocaine

572
00:28:58,569 --> 00:29:00,946
the drugs that are
still coming into the U.S.

573
00:29:00,946 --> 00:29:04,576
and all of their
their rules and laws weren't

574
00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:10,164
doing much banks money
laundering, for example,

575
00:29:07,162 --> 00:29:11,833
that that's just one way.
It's just so messed up.

576
00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:14,501
They just cop the fine,
you know? Oh, absolutely.

577
00:29:14,501 --> 00:29:16,546
And this is related
to the kind of drugs.

578
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:18,923
That was designed.
This goes to the

579
00:29:17,046 --> 00:29:21,925
pharmaceutical industries.
Again, things like Pfizer

580
00:29:18,923 --> 00:29:24,220
getting the biggest
regulatory fine ever.

581
00:29:24,220 --> 00:29:27,640
And they've outright kind of
had this conversation

582
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,643
where they almost in
built as part of the product

583
00:29:30,643 --> 00:29:35,105
to go, hey, if we get sued
for $9 billion, well, if we make

584
00:29:35,105 --> 00:29:38,026
$15 billion of profit, well,
we made profits.

585
00:29:38,026 --> 00:29:40,944
It doesn't matter. Yeah.
Which once again, this is kind

586
00:29:40,944 --> 00:29:44,324
of the unbridled capitalism.
You could that's

587
00:29:42,446 --> 00:29:46,241
where you could say, well,
the regulations just weren't

588
00:29:44,324 --> 00:29:50,246
strong enough
and needed to be a a $16

589
00:29:46,241 --> 00:29:53,040
billion fine to get them. So, you
know, there's there's some

590
00:29:54,291 --> 00:29:58,837
examples there when I look at
this, like a lot of it to me

591
00:29:55,835 --> 00:30:01,089
goes, okay,
it really is kind of the

592
00:30:01,089 --> 00:30:04,093
the kind of capitalism
on one side and

593
00:30:04,510 --> 00:30:09,057
not necessarily communism,
but welfare, authoritarianism.

594
00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:14,019
I would, you know, unbridled,
no rules on one side,

595
00:30:14,019 --> 00:30:17,022
lots of rules and regulations
and laws on the other side.

596
00:30:17,022 --> 00:30:21,277
And you can see how it goes
really wrong

597
00:30:21,277 --> 00:30:23,738
when you have lots of rules
and regulations.

598
00:30:23,738 --> 00:30:27,991
Just pick any despot,
any dictatorship,

599
00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:32,247
any, you know, USSR, Russia,
Mao's China.

600
00:30:32,663 --> 00:30:36,125
You can see where having
rules and regulations as to

601
00:30:37,085 --> 00:30:42,131
if a kid picks up a cucumber
and eats it, he gets a tenner.

602
00:30:42,131 --> 00:30:45,134
This is something that was
in the Gulag Archipelago,

603
00:30:45,718 --> 00:30:48,596
a kid eating a cucumber
and he gets ten years in prison.

604
00:30:48,596 --> 00:30:52,057
Should always get eight, but ten.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.

605
00:30:52,057 --> 00:30:55,228
So that's why you got
okay, well, obviously

606
00:30:55,228 --> 00:30:59,982
something is really wrong there.
And all the rules

607
00:30:56,938 --> 00:31:03,403
and regulations they had of,
you know, distributing

608
00:31:00,650 --> 00:31:05,445
to the farm, to the peasants
or the farmers land,

609
00:31:06,489 --> 00:31:10,242
taking it from
people who are competent,

610
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,663
you know, their argument was
all these people

611
00:31:11,869 --> 00:31:16,332
got it through power
and through unpleasant means,

612
00:31:16,332 --> 00:31:18,876
whereas the capitalism side
would be no,

613
00:31:18,876 --> 00:31:21,880
they got there through
merit and, and competence.

614
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,925
Well, in in the case of
the US as a whole, you know,

615
00:31:27,551 --> 00:31:31,180
a whole lot of people had to die.
30 million is the rough estimate.

616
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:34,392
So that's one of the ones
where I go, okay, obviously

617
00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:37,144
too much rules
and regulations are bad,

618
00:31:37,144 --> 00:31:41,398
but I've yet to see
the other opposite side

619
00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:45,068
where it's really
just straight up

620
00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:48,655
kind of this anarchy
all on market capitalism,

621
00:31:45,068 --> 00:31:50,407
you know, And I'm talking
in a kind of country level

622
00:31:50,407 --> 00:31:55,371
where that's where you could go,
man, they've got

623
00:31:53,201 --> 00:31:56,748
all their stuff in order,
you know,

624
00:31:55,371 --> 00:31:59,083
that's the place to live. That's
where everything works the best,

625
00:31:59,083 --> 00:32:03,712
where you're the safest
human flourishing is off the

626
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,925
wazoo. In that place,
you can kind

627
00:32:04,963 --> 00:32:10,510
of make some arguments that
the democracies

628
00:32:08,050 --> 00:32:13,513
are kind of doing that,
and they have the least,

629
00:32:10,510 --> 00:32:16,683
but I'm not sure of that.
So I've yet to kind of see

630
00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:20,145
the full on spectrum of going,
okay, get rid of all rules.

631
00:32:20,145 --> 00:32:21,855
Yeah, go complete,
complete anarchy.

632
00:32:21,855 --> 00:32:24,733
I think ultimately,
as I'm thinking that through

633
00:32:24,733 --> 00:32:27,612
you, you paint the two sides
that kind of the two extremes

634
00:32:27,612 --> 00:32:30,030
you have the anarchy
or you can have a full

635
00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:33,034
rule to the hilt
type of modality.

636
00:32:33,284 --> 00:32:37,079
And yet democracies do a good job
of trying to find

637
00:32:35,827 --> 00:32:41,334
is in the middle.
But yeah where we would get

638
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:43,086
to because I really think
there's no way

639
00:32:41,625 --> 00:32:46,088
you could really get anarchy
to work in a in a global view

640
00:32:46,213 --> 00:32:49,299
and a simple view for
that is what happens with

641
00:32:49,842 --> 00:32:51,219
individuals
when you give them more

642
00:32:51,219 --> 00:32:53,429
and more choice
and more and more freedom,

643
00:32:53,429 --> 00:32:55,890
theoretical freedom here,
as in Hey, you can do

644
00:32:55,890 --> 00:32:58,058
whatever the hell you want,
you can do whatever.

645
00:32:58,058 --> 00:33:02,020
Normally you'll either
because you have so much choice,

646
00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:04,523
you'll actually
not do much with it.

647
00:33:04,523 --> 00:33:07,527
If you had if you go given,
hey, you can go and do

648
00:33:08,568 --> 00:33:10,904
a thousand different things
today and here's a thousand

649
00:33:10,904 --> 00:33:14,409
different options, you can do it.
It's almost an overload

650
00:33:12,824 --> 00:33:16,576
to the system
on what you actually do right?

651
00:33:16,576 --> 00:33:19,122
Since I kind of view it in
that sense with regulation,

652
00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:22,750
if there's nothing,
if it's literally nothing

653
00:33:19,955 --> 00:33:23,625
that you can't not do,
I don't know if you just fall

654
00:33:23,625 --> 00:33:26,586
under the pretence of,
well, well, if you've got a

655
00:33:26,712 --> 00:33:28,964
a pre-existing system
that you've come from,

656
00:33:28,964 --> 00:33:31,174
you can't just keep on going
because you don't know

657
00:33:29,965 --> 00:33:33,760
any better.
Or if you just got to start

658
00:33:31,174 --> 00:33:35,179
deviating one form
and not others,

659
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,596
like I don't know how much.
And if you'd fine with that,

660
00:33:35,179 --> 00:33:38,891
I don't. Buy that argument.
Yeah, okay. Yeah.

661
00:33:38,891 --> 00:33:43,479
And I don't know where it would
fallen in front, but I do view it

662
00:33:41,352 --> 00:33:45,815
in the course.
I do agree in the discipline

663
00:33:43,479 --> 00:33:48,734
equals freedom. And whichever way
you want to cut in, I go,

664
00:33:48,734 --> 00:33:51,738
Hey, having a certain amount
of regulations and laws

665
00:33:51,988 --> 00:33:56,034
helps to focus in people
into again

666
00:33:56,075 --> 00:33:58,452
optimising for the right
thing and human flourishing.

667
00:33:58,452 --> 00:34:01,705
A.K.A
if you the right regulations

668
00:33:59,494 --> 00:34:04,291
that we might talk about,
which might be something

669
00:34:01,705 --> 00:34:07,211
to do for the betterment of
oxygen consumption for humans

670
00:34:07,211 --> 00:34:09,588
or for drinkable water.
Potable water. Right.

671
00:34:09,588 --> 00:34:14,469
So with having some regulations
laws in place to help for that.

672
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:16,137
Well in some sense people
in doing the things

673
00:34:16,137 --> 00:34:19,056
that allows that to happen.
So I can see how having some

674
00:34:19,056 --> 00:34:24,103
quite critical regulations
and laws would be really helpful

675
00:34:21,141 --> 00:34:26,856
in that in that matter.
There's a point that

676
00:34:24,103 --> 00:34:30,108
I've heard Eric Voorhees
talk about where he goes,

677
00:34:26,856 --> 00:34:32,903
I'm not completely anarchy.
I, I think that people

678
00:34:30,108 --> 00:34:37,407
coming together, for example,
at a kind of protocol level

679
00:34:34,614 --> 00:34:38,159
and deciding the rules
and then the rules

680
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,913
are enforced by the code
and that you can choose to

681
00:34:42,204 --> 00:34:45,791
to follow that code or not
I something like Bitcoin. If.

682
00:34:45,791 --> 00:34:48,126
That's that stuff that he's
kind of on board with

683
00:34:48,126 --> 00:34:50,420
and this is where you could
maybe go, Wow, we just haven't

684
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:53,423
had the chance to look at
something like Burning Man.

685
00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:58,846
There's no one person,
one government, you know,

686
00:34:58,887 --> 00:35:01,891
it's kind of lawless, but
it works at the same time.

687
00:35:02,016 --> 00:35:03,684
And that's
a whole bunch of people.

688
00:35:03,684 --> 00:35:07,855
So there is some kind of
small cases,

689
00:35:07,855 --> 00:35:12,275
I guess, where you could
say, yeah, okay, the for a

690
00:35:08,563 --> 00:35:14,445
for this small community,
they don't have

691
00:35:12,652 --> 00:35:16,280
all of these strict
things in place

692
00:35:14,445 --> 00:35:18,615
and it is more towards
the unwritten side of things.

693
00:35:18,615 --> 00:35:22,994
And that actually seems to work.
It actually

694
00:35:20,201 --> 00:35:25,789
seems to to get along. So getting
back to the definition.

695
00:35:25,789 --> 00:35:28,458
But I would say it's, I would say
in those specifics.

696
00:35:28,458 --> 00:35:32,045
So yes, it works,
but I think they would

697
00:35:32,045 --> 00:35:36,425
have to be a really hard
look as to the why doesn't work.

698
00:35:36,425 --> 00:35:40,346
Is it in spite of
or because of other things

699
00:35:40,346 --> 00:35:42,514
in generality,
let's say with Burning Man,

700
00:35:42,514 --> 00:35:46,059
you make that good point. Okay.
But what if you had one of the

701
00:35:46,059 --> 00:35:48,728
all of a sudden
made Burning Man free

702
00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:50,313
to enter burning and stuff
and expensive to get you right?

703
00:35:50,313 --> 00:35:54,277
And so if you're getting in,
you've got a bit of money

704
00:35:51,606 --> 00:35:55,820
to expend for some of that.
And you and people

705
00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:58,239
who want to go to Burning
Man also might have a particular

706
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,907
view point idea point things
that they're looking to go

707
00:36:00,907 --> 00:36:03,411
and do. You're probably not
going to Burning Man to spend

708
00:36:03,411 --> 00:36:07,164
how much money
you're spending in there

709
00:36:04,161 --> 00:36:10,251
to go and create some havoc.
But what if you allow it

710
00:36:07,414 --> 00:36:11,251
to become much more open,
more like what you'd see

711
00:36:11,251 --> 00:36:15,005
in everyday life where you pay?
But does it become a do

712
00:36:13,045 --> 00:36:17,592
without charging it?
Well, how are you going

713
00:36:15,005 --> 00:36:18,467
to have people participate?
What would happen if you start

714
00:36:18,467 --> 00:36:20,260
having bad entities
playing in the system

715
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:24,599
when you you're going to have
if you try to articulate

716
00:36:21,762 --> 00:36:27,643
that globally, would you have
the same success? Maybe.

717
00:36:26,016 --> 00:36:28,811
Maybe not. I'm not sure.
Yeah, well, this is where it gets

718
00:36:28,811 --> 00:36:31,731
kind of to the definition
legal restrictions promulgated

719
00:36:31,731 --> 00:36:37,695
by a government authority.
So when you look

720
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:39,822
at something like Bitcoin,
yeah, it's not a government

721
00:36:39,822 --> 00:36:44,076
authority that's dictating
the legal restrictions.

722
00:36:44,284 --> 00:36:48,998
It's a bunch of guys.
And I'm saying,

723
00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:54,253
guys, there's very few girls
in crypto stuff. They're getting

724
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:56,547
together on a on GitHub.
They're working at, you know,

725
00:36:56,547 --> 00:37:00,550
as Bitcoin core, that community,
wherever it is that they made up.

726
00:37:00,550 --> 00:37:02,177
I'm pretty sure
GitHub is the main thing.

727
00:37:02,177 --> 00:37:05,472
But yeah, before GitHub
I think it was on like

728
00:37:06,431 --> 00:37:10,311
forums and stuff.
Well it was, you know,

729
00:37:07,307 --> 00:37:12,063
that was the, the crypto
cypherpunk forums and stuff.

730
00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:16,233
That was where Satoshi was
originally coming up

731
00:37:13,481 --> 00:37:20,028
with a lot of this stuff.
And in this case I think

732
00:37:16,233 --> 00:37:23,032
it's the distinction is it's
not a government authority,

733
00:37:20,028 --> 00:37:24,282
it's not a top down
here's the rules

734
00:37:24,282 --> 00:37:26,827
kind of bam, bam, bam,
forcing them down on you.

735
00:37:26,827 --> 00:37:30,206
And whereas more something
like podcasting 2.0

736
00:37:30,248 --> 00:37:35,753
where it's a namespace,
you don't have to follow

737
00:37:32,083 --> 00:37:37,922
any of the RSS protocol,
you don't have to follow

738
00:37:35,961 --> 00:37:38,922
any of the podcasting
2.0 namespace.

739
00:37:38,922 --> 00:37:45,429
Yes, you can write in your RSS
feed really janky shit

740
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:49,307
that only you know
only will make sense to you.

741
00:37:50,016 --> 00:37:54,521
And whatever
the reason you're doing it

742
00:37:51,936 --> 00:37:56,315
for, let's say it's an app.
And so you're putting in

743
00:37:56,315 --> 00:37:59,193
detailed information that
links to different things,

744
00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:02,070
but you're doing in a way
where other apps

745
00:38:02,070 --> 00:38:04,532
just can't work with that.
They don't

746
00:38:03,072 --> 00:38:06,617
know what that stuff means.
You can do that in a way.

747
00:38:06,617 --> 00:38:11,621
Which other stuff will just break
and so they'll go, We're not

748
00:38:08,952 --> 00:38:12,664
going to ingest that feed.
It's broken.

749
00:38:12,664 --> 00:38:15,626
You can do it in a way
where it kind of

750
00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:18,420
conforms to the rules.
But it's it's

751
00:38:15,626 --> 00:38:22,425
it's still outside of it.
It's almost you're not you're not

752
00:38:20,047 --> 00:38:23,634
stepping over the line.
You've just reached the point

753
00:38:23,634 --> 00:38:26,554
where the line finishes.
And so you can kind of just skirt

754
00:38:26,554 --> 00:38:30,099
around in this grey zone
and then you can just stay

755
00:38:30,766 --> 00:38:33,728
strictly true
to the to the line, i.e.

756
00:38:33,728 --> 00:38:37,481
this is how you format
chapters in a JSON file.

757
00:38:38,023 --> 00:38:43,112
This is how you make, you know,
put an email in your RSS address.

758
00:38:43,112 --> 00:38:48,701
You don't use emails
with two acts in it. For example,

759
00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:50,327
or something like that.
And this is where you can

760
00:38:48,701 --> 00:38:52,871
go, okay, well,
this is not a top down approach.

761
00:38:52,871 --> 00:38:55,123
You know, this is literally
just a bunch of people

762
00:38:55,123 --> 00:38:57,835
getting together, wanting
to improve podcasting,

763
00:38:57,835 --> 00:39:02,255
making a bunch of suggestions
back and forth, communication.

764
00:39:02,255 --> 00:39:04,632
Dave Jones
just finalised Phase six,

765
00:39:04,632 --> 00:39:06,510
which has
some of the new tags in it.

766
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,389
You know, it's kind of
rules and regulations, but

767
00:39:11,974 --> 00:39:16,353
it doesn't have
the same feel as the SEC

768
00:39:12,474 --> 00:39:18,063
going after finance or. Sure.
So or something like that.

769
00:39:18,063 --> 00:39:20,106
So I think there's a couple
of like rules of thumb

770
00:39:20,106 --> 00:39:25,487
where you can say if it's
an opt in or opt out,

771
00:39:22,485 --> 00:39:27,614
you know, you're not strictly
forced to do something

772
00:39:27,614 --> 00:39:30,826
if it's a bottom up
and not a top down approach.

773
00:39:31,327 --> 00:39:33,704
And I think
even maybe something like

774
00:39:33,704 --> 00:39:36,248
the more strict
it is, the more niche

775
00:39:36,248 --> 00:39:40,001
it should be.
So I'm kind of okay with

776
00:39:40,085 --> 00:39:43,505
blue cards here in Australia.
You need to get that

777
00:39:42,045 --> 00:39:47,175
if you're going to work
with children and it's basically

778
00:39:44,215 --> 00:39:50,137
a background check saying,
Hey, I'm not only any

779
00:39:47,175 --> 00:39:55,393
sex offender lists,
I haven't been prosecuted

780
00:39:50,929 --> 00:39:59,521
for these crimes
and they've got a whole list

781
00:39:56,268 --> 00:40:01,190
of what you can
and can't have done

782
00:40:01,190 --> 00:40:06,903
if you're just doing a job where
you might have to interact

783
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:10,532
with the kid of some sort.
I'm okay with having a

784
00:40:07,237 --> 00:40:12,284
just a general check of,
Yeah, you know what this

785
00:40:12,284 --> 00:40:15,621
this person was isn't
in these three databases.

786
00:40:16,121 --> 00:40:24,922
So but they get this blue card.
If you're a gynaecologist

787
00:40:21,543 --> 00:40:28,509
working specifically for,
you know, children

788
00:40:25,505 --> 00:40:31,846
under the age of 15,
I'm kind of okay with that

789
00:40:28,967 --> 00:40:33,597
being a lot more stricter
measures needed to make sure

790
00:40:33,597 --> 00:40:36,182
that you're not doing
anything inappropriate

791
00:40:36,182 --> 00:40:39,394
in that scenario.
So this is kind of the one

792
00:40:37,851 --> 00:40:42,398
one of the ones
where it's like the broad,

793
00:40:39,394 --> 00:40:48,153
sweeping regulations.
If the basic and kind

794
00:40:43,356 --> 00:40:51,699
of easy I'm I'm okay with.
And then if it's you know

795
00:40:48,153 --> 00:40:55,034
that gynaecologist has to do
20 hours of some sort of training

796
00:40:55,994 --> 00:40:58,289
and go through jump
through all of these hoops

797
00:40:58,289 --> 00:41:02,835
to prove that they're,
you know, have no sexual

798
00:40:59,914 --> 00:41:05,170
interest in children
under the age of 15.

799
00:41:05,170 --> 00:41:08,548
I'm I'm more sympathetic
to that point of view.

800
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:12,427
That is the one that lingers
in my mind, which

801
00:41:12,427 --> 00:41:14,387
I mean, there's big,
big sweeping ones

802
00:41:14,387 --> 00:41:17,056
which what do you do
about the opt in opt out

803
00:41:17,056 --> 00:41:21,769
model of something like taxation?
And it's simple to say,

804
00:41:21,769 --> 00:41:24,315
well, fuck you, opt out,
I'll give you the money.

805
00:41:24,315 --> 00:41:26,442
But then does that mean
on the opposite hand,

806
00:41:26,442 --> 00:41:29,737
because it's obviously
there's a benefit

807
00:41:27,318 --> 00:41:32,489
to a lot of these things.
And so the benefit obviously

808
00:41:29,737 --> 00:41:35,326
of taxation systems is that
that's the large way

809
00:41:33,699 --> 00:41:38,661
which governments
get funding for them

810
00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:41,998
to be putting that back out
from federal to state

811
00:41:38,661 --> 00:41:45,668
to local of building roads
to buildings and all that largely

812
00:41:43,501 --> 00:41:46,628
through those models. Yeah.
Do you then. Yeah.

813
00:41:46,628 --> 00:41:50,257
If you I'd almost got to.
Okay so if you're choosing

814
00:41:48,338 --> 00:41:53,385
for the opt out model
and you go I'm not paying,

815
00:41:50,257 --> 00:41:55,429
do you also at the same time
lose the benefits that

816
00:41:53,385 --> 00:41:55,929
come with that. Yeah.
How would you.

817
00:41:55,929 --> 00:41:58,932
I think in that case
the opt out model is not

818
00:41:59,182 --> 00:42:01,601
I get to continue
living in Australia

819
00:42:01,601 --> 00:42:04,730
and not pay my taxes.
I think opt out is

820
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:08,525
I get to move country
and I get to renounce

821
00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:11,528
my citizenship.
I think that's more along

822
00:42:08,525 --> 00:42:14,739
the lines of
of what's kind of acceptable

823
00:42:11,695 --> 00:42:16,492
and not acceptable.
Yeah, I wouldn't even say

824
00:42:14,739 --> 00:42:17,409
move out of the country.
I would just say

825
00:42:17,409 --> 00:42:22,081
lose the citizenship and lose
or lose some of that view of

826
00:42:19,036 --> 00:42:24,083
or lose lose.
Some rights, you know,

827
00:42:22,081 --> 00:42:26,793
get access to Medicare. You know,
because I lose the benefits

828
00:42:24,708 --> 00:42:28,963
of the citizenship.
So, you know, obviously

829
00:42:26,793 --> 00:42:31,715
within Australia
for people who don't know,

830
00:42:28,963 --> 00:42:34,425
you get the Medicare support
from a health perspective,

831
00:42:31,715 --> 00:42:36,637
you get a
on a whole ton of things

832
00:42:34,425 --> 00:42:37,929
from child care.
That's quite huge.

833
00:42:37,929 --> 00:42:40,266
So I guess you could say
that, hey,

834
00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:42,601
if you don't decide to pay
that, that's awesome.

835
00:42:42,601 --> 00:42:44,311
You're going to get don't
get any of these rebates,

836
00:42:44,311 --> 00:42:47,523
which ultimately probably end up
being the same sort of payment,

837
00:42:47,523 --> 00:42:52,152
but you get to choose where it is
and that you're going to be well,

838
00:42:50,192 --> 00:42:53,737
either feeling the take
or if you're happy

839
00:42:52,152 --> 00:42:54,822
to sort of pay that through.
Yeah, and that would be the case.

840
00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:56,782
And this
is where it's it's kind of

841
00:42:57,949 --> 00:43:01,036
it would be nice though,
smoking, for example.

842
00:43:01,036 --> 00:43:06,041
I'm not a big fan of smoking
then just because it kills

843
00:43:02,704 --> 00:43:09,878
people for the most part
if people choose to smoke,

844
00:43:07,126 --> 00:43:12,130
should there be
any regulations upon them?

845
00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:14,800
I think when it obviously
affects other people

846
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,927
with Second-Hand smoke,
I haven't got to that

847
00:43:16,927 --> 00:43:19,929
section in the book,
but I know it's in here.

848
00:43:20,722 --> 00:43:23,224
Yeah, sure. You're not allowed
to smoke in a restaurant.

849
00:43:23,224 --> 00:43:25,603
You know a lot of smoke
on an aeroplane.

850
00:43:25,603 --> 00:43:29,648
I think that's acceptable.
What if there were

851
00:43:29,648 --> 00:43:35,903
aeroplanes that were allowed
to like you voluntarily choose

852
00:43:33,818 --> 00:43:37,697
to go on this aeroplane
that was allowed to smoke on it.

853
00:43:37,697 --> 00:43:40,701
No, I,
I think that's kind of okay

854
00:43:40,784 --> 00:43:44,246
if you, if you come in
knowing the risks and whatnot.

855
00:43:44,246 --> 00:43:47,958
I've got to stop saying whatnot.
It's a bad habit. And then.

856
00:43:47,958 --> 00:43:50,753
You're like I'm not saying.
Yeah, yeah that'll be good.

857
00:43:50,753 --> 00:43:53,922
Please government comments.
But what about

858
00:43:53,922 --> 00:43:59,510
something like smoking?
Is that something

859
00:43:57,259 --> 00:44:04,016
that should be regulated? Because
we see that it has negative

860
00:44:01,179 --> 00:44:07,018
health effects
and then those people

861
00:44:04,016 --> 00:44:11,231
get lung cancer. The
tremendous drain, I suppose,

862
00:44:07,894 --> 00:44:14,693
on the medical system,
is that then acceptable

863
00:44:12,608 --> 00:44:17,695
to go, okay,
we're going to check on

864
00:44:14,693 --> 00:44:21,074
some extra charges for you.
You know, we're going

865
00:44:18,112 --> 00:44:24,036
to regulate this so that,
sure, you can get it,

866
00:44:21,074 --> 00:44:26,704
but you have to pay more
and to kind of compensate.

867
00:44:26,704 --> 00:44:28,831
Once again,
this is getting towards that

868
00:44:28,831 --> 00:44:35,338
socialising the
the negative effects. You know,

869
00:44:32,543 --> 00:44:38,759
you smoke all of your life
and then right towards

870
00:44:35,338 --> 00:44:41,762
the end you have all of this
intensive care

871
00:44:38,759 --> 00:44:45,724
which is extremely costly
and that just gets chucked

872
00:44:42,221 --> 00:44:47,141
on the average
Australian in the aggregate.

873
00:44:49,103 --> 00:44:53,773
And I mean those, those,
those are very specific pieces

874
00:44:52,481 --> 00:44:56,275
and I think you could have
a whole conversation

875
00:44:53,773 --> 00:44:57,860
and find of pros and cons.
But overall

876
00:44:57,860 --> 00:45:00,739
when it comes to regulations
and laws, to me

877
00:45:00,739 --> 00:45:03,117
there was a question
which I was going to pose

878
00:45:03,117 --> 00:45:07,454
to both of us,
but I thought again, you do,

879
00:45:06,202 --> 00:45:09,164
you get into some much
detail into some of these

880
00:45:07,454 --> 00:45:10,833
and you could
people have a whole host

881
00:45:09,164 --> 00:45:13,668
of books. Books? Yep. Tons. Yeah.
But it's a question of yeah,

882
00:45:12,251 --> 00:45:14,711
if you.
And most of them are boring.

883
00:45:14,711 --> 00:45:18,090
Yeah. Try a couple of those
government type books.

884
00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:21,009
God, governance
is such a boring topic.

885
00:45:21,009 --> 00:45:23,469
But to think about
how complex it would be

886
00:45:23,469 --> 00:45:25,389
and I mean, the question
I was going to say and to me

887
00:45:25,389 --> 00:45:26,931
a more let's
think about this, right.

888
00:45:26,931 --> 00:45:29,393
If you all of a sudden
were king of the world,

889
00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:33,188
right of a new world,
and I'm not going to even think

890
00:45:31,269 --> 00:45:34,440
of pre-existing systems.
And this is very hard

891
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,733
to throw away
your pre-existing system.

892
00:45:36,733 --> 00:45:39,402
We've talked about this
before. One type. Yeah, Yeah.

893
00:45:39,402 --> 00:45:42,489
So there's a fair
few rules there. So if you had

894
00:45:42,489 --> 00:45:46,284
this world to come and you
with everyone in the world,

895
00:45:47,452 --> 00:45:50,914
you think through, okay,
just as a blanket statement

896
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:53,083
is a good to have
some regulations and laws

897
00:45:53,083 --> 00:45:56,085
or non in place
or like an extreme amount

898
00:45:56,085 --> 00:45:59,922
where I fall in just generality
I say having some is good,

899
00:45:59,922 --> 00:46:02,509
having some in place
to at least help us out.

900
00:46:02,509 --> 00:46:05,887
And I'd probably say
in the moving forward,

901
00:46:05,887 --> 00:46:07,514
whether it's a
democratic way or whatever

902
00:46:07,514 --> 00:46:10,516
other way
might be beneficial, it's

903
00:46:10,684 --> 00:46:13,103
having enough at play
that it allows

904
00:46:13,103 --> 00:46:17,023
the betterment of humanity
with a slide view starting to.

905
00:46:17,023 --> 00:46:20,318
And I like this idea of
minimising government

906
00:46:18,317 --> 00:46:21,737
only slightly,
but trying to minimise

907
00:46:20,318 --> 00:46:24,155
governance.
Government on a cycle basis.

908
00:46:24,155 --> 00:46:26,282
So you know,
if it is whatever size it is

909
00:46:26,282 --> 00:46:30,329
and whatever regulations
it applies, try to take away

910
00:46:28,409 --> 00:46:31,871
a little bit of the fat of
that might not be needed,

911
00:46:30,329 --> 00:46:33,998
no matter me.
And then, you know, as

912
00:46:31,871 --> 00:46:34,958
it would happen,
you have to add something,

913
00:46:34,958 --> 00:46:38,003
something you have to get at it
because someone will

914
00:46:35,793 --> 00:46:39,713
participate bad.
Someone will break

915
00:46:38,003 --> 00:46:40,755
the system in whatever way.
And then you add something

916
00:46:40,755 --> 00:46:43,467
and then you go on and
then you start taking away

917
00:46:43,467 --> 00:46:46,844
what I don't think a system
really works is and it's

918
00:46:46,887 --> 00:46:51,724
where we're trending to generally
is the opposite way,

919
00:46:48,806 --> 00:46:55,603
where it's more regulation,
more laws, more specificity,

920
00:46:51,724 --> 00:46:59,483
more punishment for the deviants
of a particular few

921
00:46:57,105 --> 00:47:00,858
that then harm the whole.
And I think that's that's

922
00:47:00,858 --> 00:47:04,028
why I wouldn't go down that path.
I'd be a little bit of a

923
00:47:04,028 --> 00:47:07,782
move me towards anarchy slowly.
But I'm not a full anarchist.

924
00:47:07,782 --> 00:47:09,784
I think that's where I kind
of see regulations and laws.

925
00:47:09,784 --> 00:47:13,871
Yeah. All right.
So just for that question,

926
00:47:10,452 --> 00:47:18,251
I would say for me, whatever
amounts of it,

927
00:47:14,623 --> 00:47:22,505
let's just say the current
Australian

928
00:47:18,418 --> 00:47:26,760
government is 100% of, of
regulations and stuff. I think

929
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,012
if I, if I was going
to start a new place,

930
00:47:29,012 --> 00:47:30,681
I wouldn't want to be
the one making the rules.

931
00:47:30,681 --> 00:47:34,141
But I'd be okay
if it was kind of 20%,

932
00:47:34,226 --> 00:47:39,815
I think of what it currently is.
So if there's a million people

933
00:47:39,815 --> 00:47:41,942
working in the Australian
Government now, which

934
00:47:41,942 --> 00:47:43,777
I don't know how,
how close to reality

935
00:47:43,777 --> 00:47:46,822
that is or not, that's
1/20, the 1/25,

936
00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:49,867
the Australian population,
I'd be okay

937
00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:55,329
if it was kind of 200,000
instead. Yeah,

938
00:47:53,327 --> 00:47:57,039
especially a couple of.
I've just had

939
00:47:55,329 --> 00:47:57,916
some recent things of people
who are getting employed

940
00:47:57,916 --> 00:48:01,753
by the ATO and the and,
and I know them

941
00:48:01,961 --> 00:48:04,965
and I know that school
and Oh Lord.

942
00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:08,342
How many, how many people
did you think it was.

943
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:12,972
I just said a million.
I would probably expect

944
00:48:09,677 --> 00:48:17,143
it's three or 4 million.
It's not that as of June

945
00:48:13,514 --> 00:48:20,313
2020 to I guess Australia
in the public sector 2.4

946
00:48:17,311 --> 00:48:22,148
million okay to break.
So it's 10% of Australians,

947
00:48:22,148 --> 00:48:24,233
probably Australians work
for the public service.

948
00:48:24,233 --> 00:48:28,989
So I think you get interesting.
All right. Well, my summary was

949
00:48:26,903 --> 00:48:32,409
I think ultimately
it comes down to this

950
00:48:28,989 --> 00:48:35,411
do people need protection
for their own good and are they,

951
00:48:35,621 --> 00:48:38,706
you know, are they too
stupid or too ignorant

952
00:48:39,541 --> 00:48:43,253
and they need someone
telling them what to do.

953
00:48:43,295 --> 00:48:46,547
They need some regulations.
They need some rules and laws.

954
00:48:46,547 --> 00:48:51,135
I don't particularly
need a law telling me

955
00:48:47,548 --> 00:48:53,179
not to murder people to stop me
from murdering people.

956
00:48:53,179 --> 00:48:55,431
I don't think that's the
right way of looking at it.

957
00:48:55,431 --> 00:48:59,186
So that in that
sort of side of things,

958
00:48:59,186 --> 00:49:02,563
I fold really onto
the side of people should be able

959
00:49:02,563 --> 00:49:06,068
to make their own decisions,
their own choices

960
00:49:06,943 --> 00:49:10,197
if they do choose
to, to murder someone,

961
00:49:10,989 --> 00:49:17,204
that's don't you know,
I don't think those people

962
00:49:13,532 --> 00:49:20,164
at this very moment
who are just like, man,

963
00:49:17,204 --> 00:49:22,708
I'd really like to someone.
But just that law in places

964
00:49:22,708 --> 00:49:25,211
is what's really holding me back.
I just don't think

965
00:49:25,211 --> 00:49:26,295
that's the right way
of looking at it.

966
00:49:26,295 --> 00:49:29,298
So a lot of these
regulations and whatnot,

967
00:49:29,715 --> 00:49:34,346
you know, we need these
crypto here especially.

968
00:49:34,346 --> 00:49:36,847
We need this. We need to protect
the consumer

969
00:49:36,847 --> 00:49:39,266
from all these shit coins
and mean coins.

970
00:49:39,266 --> 00:49:42,688
If you're buying a coin on
ADA, that's one thing

971
00:49:42,688 --> 00:49:45,940
that's popped up recently.
If you're buying Bitcoin,

972
00:49:45,940 --> 00:49:48,943
if you're buying dick
Bitcoin, you're buying.

973
00:49:49,777 --> 00:49:53,114
It ready to make some gains
in your buying hippie coin.

974
00:49:53,114 --> 00:49:57,327
Buying clock punch.
I think you should be

975
00:49:55,199 --> 00:49:59,579
allowed to do that
if you want to.

976
00:49:59,579 --> 00:50:02,873
And so I just yeah,
I completely disagree

977
00:50:02,873 --> 00:50:05,876
with the kind
of whole mentality of that.

978
00:50:05,876 --> 00:50:07,211
You touched upon
some other things.

979
00:50:07,211 --> 00:50:10,590
Who gets to decide what's
the punishment going to be?

980
00:50:11,215 --> 00:50:17,054
You know, I'm if I was in the US,
I would not be okay

981
00:50:14,052 --> 00:50:20,726
with an unelected group
being able

982
00:50:17,806 --> 00:50:22,476
to dictate the money supply.
And it's, you know, eight people,

983
00:50:22,476 --> 00:50:25,480
which is basically what
the Federal Reserve does.

984
00:50:25,605 --> 00:50:35,072
That is beyond ridiculous.
And yeah, just so basically I'm

985
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,826
gradually shifting towards
becoming a hardliner.

986
00:50:35,072 --> 00:50:39,827
So Erik Voorhees, my.
Parents coming for you

987
00:50:37,826 --> 00:50:42,581
watch your back,
which apparently a vague

988
00:50:42,581 --> 00:50:45,625
thinking that helps
summarise our views I guess here

989
00:50:43,998 --> 00:50:46,585
and regulations and laws.
And look again,

990
00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:49,170
they've got different views
which look, I'm dead set,

991
00:50:49,170 --> 00:50:50,422
sudden you're going to
have different views

992
00:50:50,422 --> 00:50:52,257
because this is probably
one of these topics.

993
00:50:52,257 --> 00:50:55,260
We have all sorts of people
from one way or another

994
00:50:55,635 --> 00:50:57,512
based on what's served
you in law.

995
00:50:57,512 --> 00:51:00,347
This is probably the closest
we'll get

996
00:50:58,764 --> 00:51:02,976
to talking about politics.
I think this is

997
00:51:00,347 --> 00:51:05,644
this is pretty this is.
Pretty close. To policy politics.

998
00:51:05,644 --> 00:51:08,148
I would say
we're never going to talk

999
00:51:06,438 --> 00:51:08,981
about policies specific.
I don't think ever

1000
00:51:08,981 --> 00:51:10,775
unless there's like
some specific one

1001
00:51:10,775 --> 00:51:13,778
that comes out about like,
hey, yeah, there's a policy,

1002
00:51:13,778 --> 00:51:17,199
the kind card with that
toxic stance on podcasting.

1003
00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:21,202
No, no shirts outdoors.
No shut out though. You shirt it

1004
00:51:21,202 --> 00:51:24,914
the other day in the in the cold
Brisbane morning was not wearing.

1005
00:51:24,914 --> 00:51:27,751
Yeah yeah this morning
actually went to the office.

1006
00:51:27,751 --> 00:51:29,168
Yeah I saw that. Yeah.
They're like oh

1007
00:51:29,168 --> 00:51:31,880
you're not allowed to do it
about public nudity.

1008
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,884
Not don't do it anyway. Sex.
See you in jail. Anyway.

1009
00:51:35,884 --> 00:51:40,304
So that has been the topic today.
So I do leave some comments

1010
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:42,431
Of course folks. The way
that we would even prefer

1011
00:51:42,431 --> 00:51:44,684
better was obviously sending
through a beast scrim and we did

1012
00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:49,146
leave the term game
lounge to the end. We were going

1013
00:51:49,146 --> 00:51:50,481
nicely
through a couple of topics,

1014
00:51:50,481 --> 00:51:52,608
so let's get into the basic
lounge first

1015
00:51:52,608 --> 00:51:55,027
and then we'll talk through about
how you can go and support

1016
00:51:55,027 --> 00:51:56,530
that and a couple
of other things as well.

1017
00:51:56,530 --> 00:52:01,617
So let me just go back
and where do I begin? I've got

1018
00:52:00,117 --> 00:52:04,286
what's dated tonight.
I've got one good one, I believe.

1019
00:52:04,286 --> 00:52:06,498
Yeah, I think.
Which is just a Dave Jones. Yeah.

1020
00:52:06,498 --> 00:52:10,543
The Weekly Burrito, The Me
Light Nation with 12,112

1021
00:52:07,541 --> 00:52:13,295
SATs and using cron
So Dave again and always

1022
00:52:10,585 --> 00:52:16,298
thank you very much
so for sending through

1023
00:52:13,295 --> 00:52:17,467
that particular piece again.
Yeah because it's a little bit

1024
00:52:17,467 --> 00:52:18,927
like I'll shout out
a couple of people

1025
00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:21,512
who I saw streaming
and sometimes we get boosts

1026
00:52:21,512 --> 00:52:27,643
without a message attached to it.
So we had a MKR and pod verse.

1027
00:52:27,643 --> 00:52:30,896
He sent through about 4400
Curious Concept

1028
00:52:30,896 --> 00:52:34,150
3700 with his on pod verse
as well.

1029
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:38,405
3100 There's an interesting
W grabber.

1030
00:52:38,655 --> 00:52:45,327
I'd get our VidCon on pod
verse 3680. I'm guessing these

1031
00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:48,831
because these are just ten.
So the numbers I'm actually

1032
00:52:45,327 --> 00:52:51,333
saying 168 through ten. Captain
Egghead on pod verse,

1033
00:52:51,333 --> 00:52:53,420
we're actually getting
a few. Of us on.

1034
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:58,967
Podcast Alwin from Conshax
Awesome. So quite a few coming

1035
00:52:57,632 --> 00:52:59,925
through in the streaming.
Yeah. Which is awesome.

1036
00:52:59,925 --> 00:53:02,762
But I mean and those valleys
and we're not sneezing

1037
00:53:01,177 --> 00:53:04,347
in that like that.
That's helpful.

1038
00:53:02,762 --> 00:53:07,391
That's definitely helpful.
Howie hello again to be

1039
00:53:04,347 --> 00:53:09,311
call out here for folks.
And again,

1040
00:53:07,391 --> 00:53:12,105
if you didn't really hear
as too much in previous podcasts

1041
00:53:09,978 --> 00:53:13,981
or that we've talked about
and we do talk about it a lot, is

1042
00:53:13,981 --> 00:53:16,443
we do prefer for you
to support the podcast

1043
00:53:16,443 --> 00:53:20,362
through the value
for value channel that is, we're

1044
00:53:18,445 --> 00:53:20,739
providing to you a podcast.
I'm hoping

1045
00:53:20,739 --> 00:53:23,949
that it's valuable to you
and if you find that

1046
00:53:22,532 --> 00:53:26,077
a value, you can go
and use any of the new

1047
00:53:23,949 --> 00:53:28,829
podcast apps out there.
Talk about Perverse

1048
00:53:26,077 --> 00:53:31,625
Cosmetic Fountain.
It's quite a lot out there where

1049
00:53:29,998 --> 00:53:33,335
you can send through a scrim
or you can stream through

1050
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:35,628
some satoshis a fractional amount
of bitcoin through to us,

1051
00:53:35,628 --> 00:53:40,425
and that is a big support to us.
We've been talking a little bit

1052
00:53:39,048 --> 00:53:41,467
about this offline,
but there might be other ways

1053
00:53:41,467 --> 00:53:45,222
they're going to be coming out
soon that you can support us

1054
00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:46,972
in different ways, again,
providing the same value

1055
00:53:45,262 --> 00:53:49,184
of the podcast.
But what we're realising

1056
00:53:46,972 --> 00:53:52,646
is that in the
in the intermediate mode,

1057
00:53:49,184 --> 00:53:55,106
you know, before podcasting,
when I take over

1058
00:53:52,771 --> 00:53:56,483
in the very future, we don't know
what the future looks like.

1059
00:53:56,483 --> 00:53:59,693
So to keep us going,
there's some intermediary

1060
00:53:57,692 --> 00:54:03,322
ways that we want to also open up
to the people of home for the ME

1061
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,699
and more like to help
and support us to make sure

1062
00:54:04,449 --> 00:54:08,702
that we can continue
providing a quality service,

1063
00:54:05,699 --> 00:54:11,581
a quality, valuable podcast
and all the content

1064
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:12,998
that we're actually
putting through

1065
00:54:11,581 --> 00:54:14,166
and articulating through.
Yeah, One of the things

1066
00:54:14,166 --> 00:54:16,418
we would really want to do,
I mean even for me

1067
00:54:16,418 --> 00:54:18,963
quite specifically,
is I'd love to dedicate

1068
00:54:18,963 --> 00:54:21,132
even more time to the
podcast Personal Reality.

1069
00:54:21,132 --> 00:54:23,592
Right now
it's like this is the time

1070
00:54:21,675 --> 00:54:25,387
that I can give to the podcast
in amongst everything else

1071
00:54:25,387 --> 00:54:29,139
for good reason.
But if we're able to shift

1072
00:54:26,804 --> 00:54:29,932
that and that's probably
what will open up

1073
00:54:29,932 --> 00:54:33,728
that, that view of, Hey,
can we be supported

1074
00:54:31,934 --> 00:54:35,855
in the intermediary channel
to create a better product? Also,

1075
00:54:35,855 --> 00:54:38,108
that means ultimately
on the back end,

1076
00:54:38,108 --> 00:54:41,860
we're going to be creating more
and at the same time

1077
00:54:39,733 --> 00:54:45,489
supporting back to podcasting,
to a nice space in becoming

1078
00:54:42,403 --> 00:54:48,201
even better ecosystem.
I've been looking at as well

1079
00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:50,036
at just general other strategies
that some people are

1080
00:54:50,036 --> 00:54:54,791
doing, and I look where
one of our problems is.

1081
00:54:54,791 --> 00:54:59,503
Neither of us particularly enjoys
spending time online

1082
00:54:56,835 --> 00:55:01,755
writing things.
I'm not a big forum person.

1083
00:55:01,755 --> 00:55:05,885
You were on the forums,
but I don't know

1084
00:55:02,923 --> 00:55:07,304
if you really enjoyed that.
I'd probably still enjoy more

1085
00:55:07,304 --> 00:55:10,472
being a looker than I am
a postdoc and a contributor.

1086
00:55:10,472 --> 00:55:13,601
Yeah. So both of us
are very much like that,

1087
00:55:11,516 --> 00:55:16,186
which is obviously
we're in the wrong age

1088
00:55:13,601 --> 00:55:19,273
right at this very moment.
So for that to be one of the

1089
00:55:16,186 --> 00:55:21,400
predominant things,
what I have seen and

1090
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,862
and what I actually quite
enjoyed was some people on

1091
00:55:23,862 --> 00:55:26,864
Fountain were encouraging
their listeners to,

1092
00:55:26,864 --> 00:55:29,117
Hey, if you create
a clip on Fountain,

1093
00:55:29,117 --> 00:55:32,119
we will, you know, send you
a bunch of money back.

1094
00:55:32,202 --> 00:55:37,166
As in if you create a clip,
I'll give you 100

1095
00:55:34,289 --> 00:55:38,043
or 200 sets or something.
This is definitely one of

1096
00:55:38,043 --> 00:55:40,295
those things where I think,
okay, we can do that.

1097
00:55:40,295 --> 00:55:43,757
I can definitely do that.
So if you create

1098
00:55:41,170 --> 00:55:45,425
a clip on Fountain, I will like
the hell out of it

1099
00:55:45,425 --> 00:55:49,012
and I will send you
100, 200 sets. Note No qualms,

1100
00:55:50,054 --> 00:55:53,141
just one of those ways where it's
kind of little incentive

1101
00:55:53,141 --> 00:55:56,143
for you to help contribute
in a in a way,

1102
00:55:56,226 --> 00:56:00,731
you know, creating a clip.
I create a bunch of clips,

1103
00:55:57,311 --> 00:56:03,193
but I don't know exactly
what is the pertinent,

1104
00:56:03,193 --> 00:56:06,528
amazing things
that really you find fascinating

1105
00:56:06,528 --> 00:56:09,324
or that is worthy of discussion.
I have a guess

1106
00:56:09,324 --> 00:56:11,784
and I try and do my best
and I create a bunch of them,

1107
00:56:11,784 --> 00:56:14,788
but it's always, for me,
a little bit of a

1108
00:56:14,996 --> 00:56:17,498
I don't know exactly what
the audience

1109
00:56:17,498 --> 00:56:20,835
finds most fascinating us
because it changes.

1110
00:56:20,918 --> 00:56:22,336
Some people really like
the self develop.

1111
00:56:22,336 --> 00:56:24,255
Of course, some people
like the tech stuff.

1112
00:56:24,255 --> 00:56:26,132
One thing for sure,
everybody hates Kyrin

1113
00:56:26,132 --> 00:56:28,635
and the reals
and everyone hates Kyrin

1114
00:56:28,635 --> 00:56:31,846
Come on, man. No, no.
I think in generality, it's

1115
00:56:30,010 --> 00:56:34,599
one of those like, I think
90% of people really enjoy it.

1116
00:56:32,764 --> 00:56:36,809
And then you get the 10%
real vocal people to like it.

1117
00:56:36,809 --> 00:56:38,686
Why do you create this
real? It's useless. Yeah.

1118
00:56:38,686 --> 00:56:40,355
Rid of it. Get rid of it
completely. Yeah.

1119
00:56:40,355 --> 00:56:41,940
That was a funny one
that folks listen to.

1120
00:56:41,940 --> 00:56:45,610
This should fuck up.
So then go watch it

1121
00:56:43,233 --> 00:56:48,822
that you listen to it.
Yeah. Yeah. No, but,

1122
00:56:47,112 --> 00:56:52,282
but it's, it's definitely.
I. Want to do more

1123
00:56:50,072 --> 00:56:56,496
things to connect with you.
And I don't want that just

1124
00:56:52,282 --> 00:56:58,956
to be a thing that I say.
I want to want to try

1125
00:56:56,996 --> 00:57:00,583
and put that into practice.
So more things, you know,

1126
00:57:00,583 --> 00:57:02,793
if you are in the Brisbane
area, please reach out.

1127
00:57:02,793 --> 00:57:06,505
I would love to have a drink
with someone who listens to us

1128
00:57:04,378 --> 00:57:08,340
who I don't know about
and it's in the Brisbane area.

1129
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:12,637
If you're overseas
in Germany, Switzerland,

1130
00:57:13,179 --> 00:57:16,181
Spain, the Europe area
and even kind of the

1131
00:57:16,432 --> 00:57:19,436
south coast of America,
I'm going to be travelling

1132
00:57:18,016 --> 00:57:22,771
next year. So kind of like
reach out to me because

1133
00:57:21,563 --> 00:57:24,940
I will make the effort
to find you in person

1134
00:57:22,771 --> 00:57:26,443
and whatnot. Yeah,
the other thing as well,

1135
00:57:26,443 --> 00:57:29,153
and again this you into how
we get people to the borders

1136
00:57:29,153 --> 00:57:31,239
and we can talk more
about this offline. But dude,

1137
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:35,326
there is such a plethora
of people out there

1138
00:57:35,326 --> 00:57:39,873
who create these masterminds.
It's groups, these people

1139
00:57:37,494 --> 00:57:43,418
that can support you in whatever
conversation. Now, predominately,

1140
00:57:41,498 --> 00:57:45,545
we're giving value
through the form

1141
00:57:43,418 --> 00:57:49,423
of podcasts, right?
There isn't much stopping us

1142
00:57:45,545 --> 00:57:51,217
to say, Hey, if you want
us, there's 1050 people out there

1143
00:57:51,217 --> 00:57:56,639
who would really benefit if we
we spend 130 minutes to an hour

1144
00:57:56,639 --> 00:57:59,726
preparing for these conversations
and it's things

1145
00:57:57,849 --> 00:58:01,186
that we find of interest.
If you would find it

1146
00:58:01,186 --> 00:58:03,771
useful for us to talk
about a particular topic

1147
00:58:03,771 --> 00:58:07,608
and get really in-depth
and really detail, I'm talking

1148
00:58:06,315 --> 00:58:09,943
like going to research
and getting some good

1149
00:58:07,608 --> 00:58:11,237
like 1050 hours equivalent
of what we used to do

1150
00:58:09,943 --> 00:58:12,697
at the very beginning
when we get like lots of Spike.

1151
00:58:12,697 --> 00:58:15,032
Now, I. Don't know if we did
that much, but we did.

1152
00:58:15,032 --> 00:58:17,494
More with more. Yeah, Now
if someone was to say, Hey,

1153
00:58:17,494 --> 00:58:19,119
and I'll see this
all the time, right

1154
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,873
where they get this 1050 people,
and if we give

1155
00:58:21,873 --> 00:58:24,375
the availability of,
hey, the 2 hours,

1156
00:58:24,375 --> 00:58:28,213
we'll do a one hour conversation
about this particular topic

1157
00:58:28,213 --> 00:58:31,257
and all the reasons
and all the knowledge

1158
00:58:29,172 --> 00:58:32,425
that we've acquired from it.
Again, this could be a fitness

1159
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:37,514
weeds aside this it could be
about cryptocurrency

1160
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:38,222
and Bitcoin or
it could be all of these.

1161
00:58:38,222 --> 00:58:42,309
And if we put it together
and really encapsulated

1162
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:43,644
valuable thing
is someone out here

1163
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:46,648
and if you're listening to
this is a valuable if you go

1164
00:58:43,644 --> 00:58:49,692
hey if we go hey,
if I could put whatever

1165
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:52,320
you want into it, not,
not nothing, but not some extreme

1166
00:58:50,485 --> 00:58:53,445
value and go, Hey,
if we do that on a weekly

1167
00:58:53,445 --> 00:58:56,074
or a weekly
huddle, a monthly whatever,

1168
00:58:56,074 --> 00:58:59,202
go away, everyone.
If there's enough

1169
00:58:57,699 --> 00:59:00,577
people out there who
that would find valuable,

1170
00:59:00,577 --> 00:59:02,163
I would love to do that
on an intermediate

1171
00:59:02,163 --> 00:59:04,123
basis, as in, Hey,
we still want to do it.

1172
00:59:04,123 --> 00:59:06,918
The balance of mental
give you the availability of

1173
00:59:06,918 --> 00:59:09,253
pay me by giving me
a boost program about this.

1174
00:59:09,253 --> 00:59:11,255
If not, we can do it
as a charitable model and go

1175
00:59:11,255 --> 00:59:14,509
If we can get 1050 people
in, you're interested

1176
00:59:12,590 --> 00:59:16,177
and then you go,
Guys, I want to both ask

1177
00:59:14,509 --> 00:59:18,512
you questions
about a particular thing

1178
00:59:16,177 --> 00:59:20,347
and I want you to talk about this
and research it for me.

1179
00:59:20,347 --> 00:59:22,724
Cool. We can do that.
That would be something

1180
00:59:21,266 --> 00:59:24,143
that would be, I think I
would find enjoyable again,

1181
00:59:25,143 --> 00:59:27,188
help us out here as well.
If you find this,

1182
00:59:27,188 --> 00:59:28,898
that sort of idea
or something else where you go,

1183
00:59:28,898 --> 00:59:31,900
Hey, I would really,
really fun is beneficial. Okay.

1184
00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:33,485
I'm not saying
you have to send money right now

1185
00:59:33,485 --> 00:59:36,905
through the form of beach games
even that definitely helps out.

1186
00:59:36,905 --> 00:59:41,536
The podcast helps us understand
how can we better serve

1187
00:59:38,657 --> 00:59:43,538
our listeners for sure,
Because we've got enough

1188
00:59:41,536 --> 00:59:45,373
of you now out there, right
to a day to day view.

1189
00:59:45,373 --> 00:59:47,916
We have a look at the statistics.
We're looking at things

1190
00:59:46,416 --> 00:59:49,293
that are coming through
there on the app, right?

1191
00:59:49,293 --> 00:59:50,586
You know,
we've been out of this now

1192
00:59:50,586 --> 00:59:54,757
for coming into three years.
So, you know, sorry,

1193
00:59:52,505 --> 00:59:56,175
sorry about four years. Coming
to four years in September.

1194
00:59:56,175 --> 00:59:59,344
So four years will be there.
And I'll tell you what, we've got

1195
00:59:59,344 --> 01:00:02,472
a hell of a lot more viewers
and listeners than we did

1196
01:00:02,472 --> 01:00:04,934
in the first year or second year.
Like, in fact,

1197
01:00:04,934 --> 01:00:08,605
I think most of our
listeners and viewership

1198
01:00:08,855 --> 01:00:10,648
is probably in the last
few months. Right.

1199
01:00:10,648 --> 01:00:14,152
And is probably going
to be trending more again

1200
01:00:11,398 --> 01:00:16,945
before we go into
the stratosphere, frankly.

1201
01:00:16,945 --> 01:00:18,947
How do we
how do we best serve you?

1202
01:00:18,947 --> 01:00:23,202
So don't forget the little me
and who've been helping us

1203
01:00:20,782 --> 01:00:26,121
out for for so long.
So anyway, that's that's a long

1204
01:00:24,661 --> 01:00:27,748
that's a long ploy there.
But you can help us out.

1205
01:00:27,748 --> 01:00:31,210
Feel free to do so again.
Sharing with people, talking

1206
01:00:28,666 --> 01:00:33,503
about it helps out a lot.
I'll finish this last bit,

1207
01:00:31,210 --> 01:00:35,172
which is, you know,
why would you do that

1208
01:00:35,172 --> 01:00:37,800
if you're looking at all
these other things?

1209
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,260
Why why do you need
support from us while

1210
01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:44,431
we do the value for value model,
which is one thing I can

1211
01:00:42,429 --> 01:00:45,641
swear will never happen,
is there will never be ads

1212
01:00:45,641 --> 01:00:49,311
on this, nor will there
be that kind of paywall,

1213
01:00:49,394 --> 01:00:52,106
or at least this
miyamoto's stuff.

1214
01:00:52,106 --> 01:00:55,360
What you were suggesting
then kind of

1215
01:00:53,106 --> 01:00:56,652
had some inklings of that.
If it's separated

1216
01:00:56,652 --> 01:00:58,028
enough, I'd kind of be
okay with that.

1217
01:00:58,028 --> 01:01:02,074
But for this show,
definitely no advertising,

1218
01:00:59,405 --> 01:01:04,869
no paywall, which means, well,
we're shit out of luck.

1219
01:01:04,869 --> 01:01:06,746
We don't have any money.
Yeah, we're paying a bunch

1220
01:01:06,746 --> 01:01:09,748
for the cameras
for the hardest thing

1221
01:01:09,791 --> 01:01:12,960
for improving the podcast
for and I need to soundproof

1222
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,922
this room at some point. There's
a whole bunch of things

1223
01:01:15,922 --> 01:01:19,509
which require some cost.
And then just our pure time

1224
01:01:17,507 --> 01:01:20,967
and energy.
I don't have a full time job

1225
01:01:20,967 --> 01:01:22,512
this is kind of my full time
job now.

1226
01:01:22,512 --> 01:01:26,891
So the way that we just ask
you to contribute

1227
01:01:26,891 --> 01:01:32,438
back is just by sending us
some money. You know,

1228
01:01:30,103 --> 01:01:35,900
whatever amount you feel
you got from this, this

1229
01:01:32,438 --> 01:01:38,945
was an hour and a bit long,
You know, what would you rate

1230
01:01:37,193 --> 01:01:41,364
your own time as for an hour
and a bit and,

1231
01:01:41,364 --> 01:01:42,824
did we say anything
that made you laugh?

1232
01:01:42,824 --> 01:01:46,284
Did we say anything
that made you think all of these

1233
01:01:44,784 --> 01:01:48,413
sorts of things,
we just that you contribute back?

1234
01:01:48,413 --> 01:01:50,289
I would say at the moment,
easiest way,

1235
01:01:50,289 --> 01:01:53,126
just go to models podcast
dot com slash support

1236
01:01:53,126 --> 01:02:00,007
or supporter and write in either.
Telling us. And there will be

1237
01:01:56,378 --> 01:02:02,092
some details on there
for how you can to do that

1238
01:02:02,092 --> 01:02:05,762
so we'll just leave it at that.
So beautiful memorial lights

1239
01:02:04,469 --> 01:02:07,347
thank you very much
for joining in

1240
01:02:05,762 --> 01:02:09,349
for those listening
to this at a later time,

1241
01:02:07,347 --> 01:02:11,143
do you remember that? We do
the musings live 7 p.m.

1242
01:02:11,143 --> 01:02:13,688
Brisbane Eastern Standard
time. On a Wednesday. On a.

1243
01:02:13,688 --> 01:02:17,900
Wednesday, folks that is it
Juan out. Kyrin Out. Oh baby

1244
01:02:19,068 --> 01:02:20,652
fuck you SEC Good.