Mere Mortals

Share on social media:

Let's have a dive into the madness of the Mere Mortals minds!

In Episode #462 of Musings, we delve into the topic of mental health, exploring its definitions, societal narratives, and personal experiences. Juan starts off with the significance of Movember, a global movement aimed at raising awareness for men's health issues, including mental health, suicide prevention, and cancer. Societal expectations and personal narratives can impact one's mental health which requires us moving beyond vague definitions to more specific issues that can be addressed through practical actions. We also discuss practical approaches to improving mental health, such as focusing on physical health, introspection, and taking actionable steps towards resolving specific issues. 

Huge thanks to Petar and Bitpunk.fm for supporting the show!

Connect with Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcast/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcast

Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast

[00:00:07] Juan Granados:

Hello. Yes. We are. Welcome back. Mere mortalites to another edition of the Mere Mortals Musings edition. You've got Juan here. And Kyrin on the other side. It is the 10th   November   2024.   And we are pumped, aimed to have a conversation   about   oh, no. What is Karin forgotten? He's got it. He's forgotten his water already. Mental health is declining. We are talking about mental health today, the immortal lights. It was a topic that I kind of thought about to have a bit of a chat about. The reason was more than anything as well was   we've talked about it in the past in the podcast in   more defined   versions of it, some of the ways that it's impacted.  

I kinda gave you I like the the way that we structured it last time. We had kinda like 2 parts, 2 main parts, and we'll sandwich the Instagrams and a couple of other supported notes in the middle. I'm liking that sort of setup, but,   maybe a couple of things that have,   I've listened to or occurred in the past where I went, oh, god, might be a interesting thing to talk about. 1, yeah, it's November at the moment. And so November is November. NoFap. NoFap or what is it? What? NomNob. Yeah. NomNob or whatever it is that Tim called it. But it was also the, yeah, the the Movember sort of movement. It is. And I was actually originally thinking Well, do what is Movember for people who might not know what that is? It might be an Aussie thing. Movember. It isn't nice. It is global. I'm pretty sure Movember   is   is it actually looking up because let's make sure we get something to say it's I think it's just like to raise awareness of mental health. It's one of those Well, I don't know if it was specifically just mental health or if also was testicular cancer. I can't remember if it's just that. Maybe this is mental health, but it was here we go on the actual website.  

It's how do you not take on mental health, suicide, prostate cancer. Oh, no, I did literally just skip when I was reading it.   Prosthesis, entericicular cancer. Yeah. So it's a bit in amongst all those things. And every actually every year November is for men, Mhmm. Women. No. Go away. Listen. No. Well, no, because they changed. I don't know if they changed it or they've always had this, but they've got 2 main sections I understand that there's the obviously growing the mo. Although   way back in the day, I remember doing some charity work or raising funds for my member. And you'd get the little, like, sticky, like, massages that, like, females could put put on the car to treat it. Yeah. I remember that. But then there's also the move part of Movember. So, you know, you can set to do   6 kilometers of walking Running. Running or a 100 kilometers. So, a couple of things. I thought every year November comes around, I've always got these grand plans around November   because   not for growing a moat because one, I look like a dirty Mexican. That's   so definite. I've done it once and it was terrible. It's so terrible. But I'm always like, oh, I,   2 years ago I did the movement aspect of it and I think it was a 100 kilometers in total over the month of movement, which I did. And I was like, oh, that was really cool. And I had all these dreams of right at the beginning, I'm gonna do a one of those series things that I've done in the past.  

I haven't done for that. I just haven't had any time or haven't allocated time for it. So I thought, okay, maybe talking about mental health in general, that might be like a good little grouping of it. That's one thing. 2, I'm seeing a lot of people doing a lot of move escapades   that   I guess are in support for mental health. I just thought it'd be interesting to call it out yesterday when we were just talking about it before the podcast began.   I didn't go for a run at my local sort of running place that we do. But there was some guy there for November, who was running   a half marathon every   4 hours for 24 hours.  

I was like, Ah, so I was so sad. And then I think you'd have to do like 7 half marathons in a 24 hour period or 28 hour period, whatever that ends up working out. So, you know, there's other people going for pretty extreme sort of forms of getting the runs in. So I'm assuming he was doing, you know, half marathon and maybe a 2 and a half hours resting for an hour and a bit and then going again and going again. So hey, that's pretty quick too. Yeah. Yeah. So he's a like a relatively known runner here in Brisbane. Not fast, but obviously can do long distances. So again, pretty great. I think his name's Macca. Not fast. Who are Sheesh. Macca, I think it's Macca, his name. Or it's probably not his actual name, but it's his like nickname, Macca.   So that that sort of came up as well. And then most recently, I got to interact with Chris Williamson   and at the show that he did here in Brisbane, that was on Wednesday that just went by. And in that conversation, he kind of opened up in part of it around   the a few things. If people have listened to his show, talked about the lonely chapter, which is it was   something I wanted to talk about, I guess, in a broader context. And then the other aspect of it as well was I guess, like shape, you call the champagne problems or when type a people have type B problems and type B. People have type A problems, everyone   kind of gather around and pat everyone on the back when they've got the type B and a type a problems. But if I type B is a thing either.  



[00:04:58] Kyrin Down:

I've never actually heard that particular Yeah, I don't I don't know. A couple of years ago, I think, I think  

[00:05:04] Juan Granados:

type a and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. But have you heard the concept of type a people having   underwhelming   maybe   less desirable problems, let's just say versus   people who are aspirationally trying to get to something else? Have you heard of that? More just like they've already climbed the mountain and it's lonely up there or something.   Well, and we can get into that definition, but that these are all the various reasons that I went to Keko. Sure. Mental health, that's probably   an overall concept. So the good preamble there. So the first the first like the big category that I want to talk about. Alright. Let me do it. Okay. 1st because this is honestly,  

[00:05:40] Kyrin Down:

one of the most dystopian definitions I've ever come across. Oh, no. This is your own. This   is what I say if you just type in mental health definition,   comes up with this mental health is a state of mental well-being that enables people to cope with the stresses of life, realize their abilities, learn well and work well and contribute to their community.   And why I think this is dystopian   is it's telling you what your your mental health should be and what you should be doing with your life. You should be learning you should be working, you should be contributing to your community. Yep. Can't fail this whole I honestly,   I found this insulting to me in the in the coping with the stresses of life, you know, therefore implying that you should be, having stresses of life or seeking them out perhaps.  



[00:06:26] Juan Granados:

And I just went like,  

[00:06:28] Kyrin Down:

I find that actually a really shitty definition because that's really just saying   it's really telling you, like, this is what your life is all about. You just got to do these things and you have to mentally cope with doing these things.   I much preferred, you know, if just going outside of and that's from the World Health Organization. If you type that in, like it's just it's just website after website   saying basically these exact same things. Right. Okay. If you go into Wikipedia, as usual, Wikipedia, some of the best definitions out there. And that was talking more about,   autonomy   comp,   intergenerational   dependence.  

Intergenerational dependence.   So maybe not that I have no idea. Actually, I just copied it.   Self actualization of one's intellectual and emotional potential amongst others, and then   positive psychology, creating a balance between life activities   and psychological resilience, things like that. Okay, I found that more.  

[00:07:24] Juan Granados:

So no real definition here other than, like, some dodgy definitions. Needs better definition. Yeah. No definition about need better definitions. That that actually will get into my first narrative. But yeah, you go again. You give me your And that was going to be basically my starting point for us, which was more along the lines of the   construct or the narrative or what I guess is deemed   by mental health in this generality. Right. So I wanted to ask you basically,   maybe a lead into that first point.   Do you think how we are defining mental health   is actually making us worse worse, you know, is the   is the narrow idea that maybe gets propagated liquid you're seeing there, or by any   high level   throw of what mental health should be is actually making it worse   than   maybe some alternative?  



[00:08:16] Kyrin Down:

I don't know about worse, but it's certainly fuzzy and hazy from   from the way people speak about it even just the definition   I went into there you know, it's like it's just a one off thing but it's but then it's like well, you know, if someone typed mental health into into   any search engine, they're probably going to come up with some stuff that I don't know that might not be helpful.   So I guess my my answer to your question, another question is, can can poor mental health be fixed mentally?   So can poor mental health be fixed mentally? So for   example,   I don't I don't ever hear it phrased that way because if people talk about, like, I've got to fix my mental health or I've got bad mental health, what do they talk about? You know, I'm going to take time off work. I'm going to perhaps, you know, go on to some sort of medication that'll allow me to do that.  

And I don't think I've ever heard someone talk about, alright, I'm going to think harder. I'm going to think my way out of this. Yeah, exactly. And   so so it's it's kind of one of those ones where it's like, well,   we would we're talking about mental health, but you're not actually doing anything mentally. Really. The only thing that comes even close to that is maybe doing some meditation,   which is almost the opposite of of mental. You're trying to not mentally think Yeah.   And so I was just going like, should this actually just go into   the category of health because a lot of the things we'll talk about later   are physical things that you can do to fix your mental health. And I'm not sure there's   actually that much mental things which   contribute into  

[00:09:54] Juan Granados:

Yeah, okay. Not too bad. So I think let's I'm gonna jump off the deep end here and step off the cliff because firstly, I will say most definitely me and Karen are not some sort of doctors that know the No. No. No. Some of these things. No. No. No. Yeah. I'm sure there are very specific   causes and imbalances and things that you probably need to get   prescribed and looked after. But   as a whole, and I think the first part part section I want to talk about was mostly it's like narrative. And this was the example I wanted to give from Chris Williamson   has said it quite a few times and I think others and he got it's not from him. It's from Alex homozzi, but it's basically the lonely chapter. Have you heard him talk about this at all before? They they I'll roughly describe it. And in essence, it's   it's the the   the chapter and it can happen multiple times when you're moving from,   being surrounded by either the people or the things that you're doing or the actions that you're undertaking,   but you want to escalate to this next point. And so an example for current, let's just say, would be perhaps you you're training with people who are liking to do the training with maybe a little bit of running and some of the calisthenics.  

But in fact, to get to a one handed handstand, you need to spend   2 to 3 hours, maybe in solitude, maybe not, but just doing this particular thing. You can't be discussing with them about something else you need to see this particular thing. It's not a it's not a community  

[00:11:14] Kyrin Down:

task.  

[00:11:15] Juan Granados:

To learn how to do it. Sure. Sure. Sure. So individual. Okay. So there's individual thing. The I guess the example that he gives a lot of is, I guess, for himself, because we'll Chris Williamson on doing a podcast, he   puts out, just before he came to Australia, he did like 1 podcast interview per day for maybe it was like a week and a bit. Yeah. A lot of research. So Line up, all the research, the reading, all of all the stuff that he does. And so in that, he has to not go and interact with people, not go and do these things.   Maybe his your particular friendship group might be, you know, whatever this, but to get you to this next chapter or to the next step to whatever you're looking to do, which has a new group of people, a new group of interactions, new set of actions, you get   stuck somewhere in the middle and that middle is, I guess, he deems as the lonely chapter. And   I think   you can place a narrative around that and call it a bad mental health or you can't place it in, I don't say bad. It's just Oh, that's   my mental health is declining because I'm going through this. And I'm feeling bad about this and feeling bad or feeling bad mentally could be insert any action that's happening, anything that you don't think the expectations being met. But I think that's,   it's that narrative. It's that word expectation of being met. But that's where a lot of   the more general downfalls will come to. Because   when I heard that,   and say I've experienced it in the past with   working where I was to what I'm doing nowadays.  

I still have a lot of let's just say friends that I hang around with that I did back in the day. But there's definitely some people awesome moments through let's say a couple of years where   you could call it   lonely chapter in the sense I wasn't engaging as much socially, I was doing a lot of my own things.   But it wasn't like my expectation was set in Oh, no, no, but I still want to have to have all these various things.   Maybe it was by default lucky, that it's like that maybe I'm just internally, I might come across as a more sociable person, but I do enjoy my solitude in doing those things. And so that didn't feel like it was a downside. It was like, oh, no, this is good is what I need to do around it.   But pulling it back, I was like, yeah, I think it's the narrative   and the expectation that you set that can really  

[00:13:30] Kyrin Down:

set forth a, oh, yeah, my mental health is declining or not declining. Could even just be it's it's not the right term for it. Because   if we   had to think about it, probably what 70% of bad mental health is maybe just loneliness.   And then then you've got the serious stuff. Schizophrenia.  

[00:13:52] Juan Granados:

Like the like the serious stuff like that, then I guess would say   stuff that   is almost involuntarily   causing you damage.   Yeah. Hormonal imbalances, something else where you actually you can't you can't outthink nor can you add action them. It's okay. You need some sort of external support. Yeah. Correct.  

[00:14:11] Kyrin Down:

And I should clarify not that loneliness is not serious, but there's a thing I think we could agree that probably been being lonely and then having schizophrenia  

[00:14:20] Juan Granados:

are 2 different things.  

[00:14:22] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Reading the book on the noonday demon. I like to refer to this one, because it was all about depression,   that that kind of mental health where he goes through the whole list of it and essentially,   like,   essentially has 700 page book,   putting it down into like 2 sentences   was there are some things which you you cannot overcome just through   what would I call it? Like sheer will alone? Yeah, sheer willpower. There are things.   Another good book was   I'm actually my mental health must be going down. I'm remembering books.   K Redfield Jamieson was her name. And   it was a book about,   she had   something that needed lithium to   help her   stay stay on the line. Lithium was basically the thing that would would break her out of this cycle.  

Yeah, that's really disappointing, though. I've forgotten that. Anyway, once looking it up, nothing was the same.  

[00:15:27] Juan Granados:

Nothing was the same. No. That wasn't what you've done. Yeah. What are some of the others?  

[00:15:33] Kyrin Down:

An Unquiet Mind?   Yeah. Yeah. I think it was that one. Okay. Is it like a blue book cover?  

[00:15:39] Juan Granados:

Black book cover. Night falls  

[00:15:41] Kyrin Down:

fast. An unquiet mind sounds okay. Right. You're   hearing live right now on mental health mental health declining and we forget things. Well, well, I mean, that's probably another thing as well that   maybe is not talked about as much. So one probably loneliness is probably it's probably easy to say, Oh, my, I'm struggling with my mental health rather than saying like, I'm struggling with loneliness. It's probably more acceptable. Yeah, socially acceptable   to say that,   Which is one thing. And then yeah, sure. Your mental health app like your IQ declines as you're as you're getting older.   And certainly   your mental capabilities  

[00:16:18] Juan Granados:

struggle much more as well. That's a good point. Because   maybe it's   it's missing is just a big term and it covers all the things. It's missing precision because when you say so if someone came to you and said,   Oh, my mental health is declining.   Now it and just that little talk that we just had them.   I   would default and saying, Yeah, but I guess what about Yeah, what specifically is it? Because,   because there's a there's a distinction between,   and I guess I will say with with yourself, right? When you were going through everything with your mom over the last year, let's just say   there was times of sadness,   and suffering   and down periods.  

And you could   generalize it in the sense of oh, yes, my mental health is declining during this time because I'm having to go through this. I don't think that I wouldn't have put it that way. But yeah, I was gonna say, I don't I don't think it's an incorrect thing to say.   But I don't think that it is precise enough for it to be correct either. So it's not, you can't tell someone that it's wrong   as a narrative, which is what makes it challenging because you can't say, oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure it is. But you could get a little bit more tight with that definition to what it is. But even even stepping beyond that,   I think maybe for you, it also wasn't like you weren't expecting it to be that the case either, which   then moved you towards a more oh, yes, it's a knowing suffering. It's a known pain. It's known things to do. And as you say, it wasn't that you   had things that you had to, like you were   unwilling to face unable to   progress with it was odd. These are all relatively known expectations that I have to do, which is why I guess,   maybe we don't like this, but at least with our friends, we've never really had the conversation or had anyone heard of us talk about like, oh, hey, my mental health is real bad. None of us really talking. Yeah, the probably the  

[00:18:15] Kyrin Down:

maybe maybe,   you know, if someone's in the hospital, because they've just been hit by a car, for example, and then, you know, just got a diagnosis, you know, we're gonna have to amputate your leg or a foot or something.   It's kind of expected that they're not going to be mentally in a great place from that. And so I'm not sure if people talk about mental health there because it's, it's just like your health is fucked up in general.   So yeah, mental health seems to apply the most like make the most sense when it's   everything's going pretty good with your life or is on track or seems to be alright.  

But   you're   you're still not in   perhaps enjoying as enjoying life.   You know, you're not feeling as much pleasure from that as you as you thought you would perhaps. And so that can explain,   you know, depression when there's no real cause for depression. You just, you know, you just had a beautiful child or something. Everything's going good. What's going good? And yet you're clinically depressed or super depressed.   That seems to be when mental health makes the most sense.  

[00:19:23] Juan Granados:

Why is it we have so why is that narrative of mental health not been something that our friendship group or maybe even the people that I know around me, especially strong? I've really talked about it. We're mentally strong.   We just we just never been it's never been a thing that's been in any   friendship group that I've been in. I've like I've seen people who will post on social media   to say,   Yep, support mental health, it is a crisis, there is difficulties   amongst everyone, male, female, whoever,   you could be precise about what it is that they're feeling that way. But you know, I've seen people post about it. When it comes to   talking about it, like face to face or discussing it.  

Maybe it's the case people just don't want to talk about it. But in general, this it just doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't seem to be more female thing in that sense.  

[00:20:08] Kyrin Down:

The argument against that's that, you know, males cover it up and society   society is to blame or men are to blame for,   machismo sort of thing. You don't talk about your problems or if you do, no one listens. So,   you know, you learn to not talk about them something like that.  

[00:20:29] Juan Granados:

The other the other way Chris Williamson posted about   how Chris Bumstead said it in like they had a podcast conversation or whatever a couple of months ago, it was like, oh, it takes like enough main points for you to have succeeded in such an amount of ways so that you can open up and be vulnerable. Because it's like, oh, well, if you've got a random guy who   is, you know, a random person and they open up like they are, they feel like a little bit too, like, I'm not gonna open up. Nobody's gonna care. I'm not gonna say anything. But if you're a super accomplished person, and then you open up and say, oh, yeah, but there's these challenges and all these things, then it's like, oh, well done. Yeah. You're, you know, you're like the top bodybuilder or your top whatever and you're able to open and express. Yeah. You can talk about all your problems. I think you sort of say no. You need enough pain points to be able to open up, which   maybe I can send socially that that as a concept. But again, I go I kind of call bullshit on that either. I go Yeah, once again,  

[00:21:26] Kyrin Down:

is is having problems in your life.   Is that does that constitute bad mental health?  

[00:21:33] Juan Granados:

And that's what I'm saying. Yes. This is this is the this is the definition that I think is would be nice because when I read out about the Movember piece, right? And this comes into why is it so important? Because again, the narrative, you can't   actually fix something if you're too generic with the idea. If you went to something,   if someone came to me or you and or anyone, yeah, came to us and talked about it, I've got poor mental health. I don't know where I would begin to telling you apart from maybe saying like a very general   train better, sleep better, eat better. I I can't. There's no much more that you could detail beyond that. You'd have to kind of inquire underneath   it. Some of the others that the Movember Foundation said, right? Pesticular cancer, prostate cancer,   pretty define them on either the things you can do or how you can treat it or how you can spot it. Yeah. Like that's pretty cut and dry.  

But it is very different to say if you came home after a long day, well, 2 weeks ago, let's just say that's how I've said to you. I'm gonna set a couple of you Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, were heavy days. I was up at around 4 in the morning finishing up at about 10 pm. It was probably an hour in there of eating and another hour of family time. The rest was work, right. And by the time you got into Thursday and Friday, I felt I guess the way that was described was like quilled up like I was quilled up in terms of I need to be doing more and more and more because I was just so on edge from all the work that I've been doing. Friday took me forever to just kind of unwind and then the weekend to be what I would say, more present   more in the moment.  

Not so anxious and   not Paris and Pacific but like,   just in that mode of like, go go go up danger, you know, I gotta go.   I wouldn't describe that as bad mental health. Like I wouldn't if we talked about it, it wouldn't even fit within that because because it would just be more of a definition, I guess, in my mind of,   oh, it was challenging.   That was hard. There was lots of things to do. There was less sleep, there was less training.   But it wasn't like it was unexpected. I wasn't anything different. And if someone came with that exact scenario and talk to me and said, Oh, my mental health has declined.   I don't know what I could do to help in that situation. If you would describe it in that way. Well, it's like it's like,  

[00:23:38] Kyrin Down:

you know, you said you had some drinks last night. I had 3 as well.   Like 14. We could we   both could say our physical health is declined   right now. But you know that   it's kind of absurd saying that, because it's just like a it's a one off thing.   I had written down here like, you know, it depends on the timescale. So on a day to day, if we're going to look at it like that,   you could say your mental health is all over the place. Some days are really good. Some days are bad. This week, for example,   I wasn't able to train. And normally that would, like, eat away at me.   And so even though I had a reason for this week to be shitter, I've actually been pretty good. Been like, all right, well, you know, fuck it. This life is, you know, you're trying to do hard things. You're going to you're going to face setbacks and stuff like that,   Whatever. That's   fine. And yet, if I compare to last month, where perhaps I'd like,   was more dialled in everything was going good. And then I have like a tiny little setback,   or I'll   find myself like ruminating on like, man, I'm like, I can't get this girl or a girl or something like that. It's been, you know, so so long since I've had someone like really caring for me in a in a, like, partner sort of sense.  

I could take that snapshot of an hour of rumination and be like, oh, that was really bad. Mentor.   And then I compare it to when I was a teenager where I was   not   depressed in the sense of that book I was talking about the really bad depression, but certainly like I wasn't happy. And I spent a long time being not really happy.   I don't know if I've talked about this before.   I had a panic attack or 2 in those days when and so this is like when you were younger younger? Yeah. Like, probably,   I'd say, like, 15   through 20. Okay. They they were   internally for myself, like, on my own, not great years.  

And,   yeah, mostly just anxiety, things like that. And then beating myself up. And it was particularly once again about women. Like, I just couldn't talk to women. It was   too scary.   Would shutter they even think about it.   Actually went to therapy for  

[00:25:50] Juan Granados:

maybe like a few times,  

[00:25:52] Kyrin Down:

like 8 sessions or something. And   it actually didn't do anything for me. It certainly didn't   help my mental health.   That only happened when I made the decision like I need to fix this. And there was a kind of trigger for that. But that was the thing that actually really helped. That you said fix this. Yeah. At that point, did you know what this meant?  

[00:26:15] Juan Granados:

I   Which was, I guess it was the   inability  

[00:26:20] Kyrin Down:

to wanting to talk to females. Yeah. Yeah. Or not, not wanting to, the ability  

[00:26:25] Juan Granados:

to talk to females. And I think that's a distinction because, okay,   it's again, this whole section I wanna talk about is the narrative of mental health. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist because there is   a mental health. There is a grouping of mental health. I just think the definition of it is,   unwise to use. It's unhelpful to use. If you're really talking about the definition of it, like you explained there, someone could very rightfully say between the years of 15 and 20, like, oh, my mental health declining, I'm not happy.   You can say these objective measures of things, maybe you could even say like, maybe your blood pressure is this again, as long as it's not   something chemically related in your brain or otherwise. Okay. There's not talking about those. But not description that you said, you got to a point where   you actually knew what it was that was causing a symptom drive, which I guess I don't   most often maybe it's a skill. So part of it could be attitude, part of it is skill. That way you just define there was skill and then there was a differentiation between,   okay, well, I want to be able to speak to women and talk to them and   the expectation may be set at a point where other people are doing it so I should be doing it, but you're not. And so you missed the expectation is different,   because you're not achieving what you want to be doing. And so it's a skill set that you don't have, Hence, you're not happy about it. And that's your, I guess, the cause of unhappiness.  

That description   is way better because then you can do something about it. And I guess maybe we're thinking about it in more foundational ways   then saying, oh, yeah, my mental health has declined, because you could have gone to the psychiatrist. So you could have gone to anyone   and tell them like, oh, my mental health is declining.   And you would still have   to dig on down to find out what's the actual reason that because I'm sure during that time, you also had loads of things that were going well for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The,  

[00:28:14] Kyrin Down:

actually kind of makes me think. So   I didn't tell   the therapist like the real   the real reason I already knew what it was. But it was one of those things where it's like, I didn't want to talk about this to someone. I didn't want to, like, admit weakness.   There's a whole bunch of stuff going on there. I wonder how many people.   So for people who have no idea why they're depressed or struggling with something, even though everything's going good with their life. That's where   SSRIs and,   things like that make sense to me. Actually, medicinal   interventions.  

I wonder how many people who are on on those sorts of things   secretly, like deep down inside, know exactly what it is that's bothering them.   It was a partner they shouldn't be with. They don't have   the courage or something to confront a family member.   They've got   really, you know, deep seated traumas   use the word,   in the past   that is they're still struggling with   and don't know how to overcome. Perhaps that's probably another thing where it's it's on that gray area of like, well, how do you how do you fix this if it's, you know, what's happened to you, but you don't know how to let it go or how to  

[00:29:28] Juan Granados:

assimilate that into your life and who you are as a person now. I don't know. It's very true. Tricky. It's very tricky. I think the where I ended up like summarizing it for me around what it means for the narrative of the conversation of mental health. Because you're right. When you're maybe just most people, most people just don't generally want to talk about,   which is like bad because it's fucking, you know, just say you want to talk about good mental health. Like, is there a thing that generally I don't think good people do. Yeah. I don't think people say mental health. I think they talk about it. It's always in a bad sense. Yeah. What about good mental health? I think more   if   anyone's listening to this or if anyone ever came to talk to me about it or even myself,   I would hope that maybe the path forward   around that mental health or that feeling is   leverage as a form of   help the conversation thing get to, okay,   what is it? What's the scale or attitude or the interaction   that's causing all of these bad things? And I think that's where you can find the definition of,   if it's a skill thing, cool. You can learn how to do that. There's many a way to do that. If   you have, if it's chemical or something else or something happened or you need more professional help, okay, then you know that you're going to have to go and take some certain steps,   but sticking at the level of just, oh, I'm just having a bad mental health. And then   almost like using that narrative to go and do other more destructive things or not do things Lots of worse like that's you're not   not helping yourself. You're not aiding anyone if you're trying to give them just like, even just general consensus. Like that's not helpful. I think you never break it down into more specificity. That's that's a dangerous mental health. Yeah, it's kind of like physical health as well. Like you can  

[00:31:02] Kyrin Down:

wrap it on about the optimal nutrition, the optimal diet, the optimal   physical   exercise regime all the time, 24 hours a day.   But,   you know, it's going to be pretty individual for   every person as well and dependent on your culture and your genes. So,   yeah, it's it's it's one of those hard things that's really hard to, like, give recommendations on, But we're gonna still try it anyway. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's gonna be the same. We're gonna we're gonna give you we're gonna give you some recommendations.  

[00:31:31] Juan Granados:

But I think we have to we have to set the scene on how we think on some of these things. Just don't be, doctors on the Internet. Fuck it. Doctor Down over here. Doctor Down over here is gonna tell you what to do. Let's suppose we'll give you some  

[00:31:42] Kyrin Down:

some fun boost to grams. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. So so for those who are wondering in what is a boost to gram boost gram is a   a show of support. Someone out there has said, I value the mere models. I'm going to send them some satoshis to help keep this running to show that I love them. And they'll sometimes add a message on that. And you can do that in a modern podcasting app. Ones like Fountain Podcast Guru, Podverse,   true fans,   customatic.   Those are all decent ones. If you go to me and models podcast dot com slash support, we've got a little section on there of  

[00:32:15] Juan Granados:

links to those as well as why you might want to support us. That's correct. Now, bitcoin prices have been going up Dramatically so. It's true. All time highs. I've got it's cool, baby. Kyren money down over here next to me with the the My mental health is very good.   That's actually that's that's another problem. I also say when you attach your   mental well-being or mental state to   external factors that you cannot influence Sure. You're in for some bad times.   However, everyone does this. Let me tell you, everyone does this. I think it's more   knowing that that's happening helps you to part part away from it as opposed   to trying to improve it in other forms. Like, if you if you were attached really attracted or attached some money   and you sold bitcoin and like all the assets that you have go up and then you become happy. I do not think the solution is,   oh, well, I'll just like if it goes back down, I will, you know, try and think of something else or, yeah, like move away from it. Actually, I'd be like, no, you have to identify and try to   pay yourself away   from that particular attachment. Otherwise, the attachment is always gonna be there. You know, they're not gonna be trying to sidestep it. Like you might not tell people, but it's always gonna be there. Yeah. See, right at this stage, I'm what is known as pre rich  

[00:33:31] Kyrin Down:

And I'm gonna get to rich and there might even be a phase where I'm post rich.  

[00:33:35] Juan Granados:

But it's all about it's all about how you phrase it. It's how you phrase it. We got a couple of booths here. They're all from, no, not all from Peter. There's one different one here, which is very nice. So thank you very much for those who are supporting as well as always who are streaming.   We got Peter. I'm not exactly sure why, but I like listening to these. I don't know in particular which one it was. He would have meant the last episode. Okay. The one New tagline, small conversations on everyday topics. Yep. Small conversations on everyday topics.   Not too bad. Do we do small conversations and nice things? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Conversation. If I do a couple of my own, I might even use that as well. Small conversations on everyday topics. But thank you very much, Peter. That's a really nice little tag. I like it. I mean that's 2 of 222 stats. Rolled up. Sent using fountain roll of ducks. Thank you very much. Quack Quack.  

Very good. The second one,   by Peter. He says, I might have become the out of touch old guy in the room, but I still remain wildly wildly unenthusiastic   about the world changing aspects of AI in the next few years. And they're gonna change hardcore. As far as I can see, AI amounts to clever Google searches and an original media creation on apps, which mainly appeal to high school kids, Inza, TikTok, etcetera.   Okay. Furthermore, they can make your job obsolete and a way to do your job was largely unnecessary to begin with, and you probably should have been fired years ago. So, yeah, I'm 220.   I  

[00:34:50] Kyrin Down:

think he's answered his own his own question there. I would I would posit   I don't know, 80% of the work done by people in this world is   useless. And   I look, I very much put myself in that category when I had an office job, but I said 80% of the work I was doing was just not  

[00:35:08] Juan Granados:

not needed and or unhelpful. Yeah, could have been I think this is correct. Because so   to your point, Peter, I would say   the changing aspect of AI is it's going to reduce a lot of redundancies   that exist   in the world at large.  

[00:35:24] Kyrin Down:

Because there's a whole host of it. I think it's when it comes to it'll introduce some a whole bunch more, but hopefully, it's just the robots.  

[00:35:31] Juan Granados:

Yeah, redundancy. And this is the other example in   just I'm reading at the moment. So it comes as a story.   Like around 2016   2017 2018, like around that timeframe,   Elon Musk, Gigafactory   and Tesla, they were trying to pump out 5,000 Teslas   per week.   And I think the the factory that they had was a Mac, like it was generating like 1800 a week and they were like, what the hell, how are we going to do this? Now, default position in those factories was, yep, automate everything, machines, robots, and a lot of things. And one aspect that they had to do is through those years was actually de automate   because actually found it was faster to do some things manually with some people than it was with the machine.  

Just in, I think the example was maybe somewhat like the rubbering around the,   car doors, the ceiling. Okay. They have robots for whatever reason with, like, kind of janky, they miss in doing it. I actually found it's actually much quicker if you just get 2 or 3 people work, it's just do that and humanly put that through as possible. So,   you know, kind of a sad example that I think   AR is going to come and   overtake   things or where it's gonna   feel like it's overly taking items to then people realize, oh, it's actually not doing its good job as what other people are doing and then pull it back slightly.   There's a couple of examples in some of the works that I'm doing at the moment where I've used AI to generate   ideas or ways of doing particular things. And then when I go through a bit of a analytical   review of it, I go,   ah, no, that's actually not good. You missed this. So you actually would approach it this way or something else, something else that you'd have to look at. So I think there's going to be   that overt use of AI,   pullback of AI, and then maybe you'd be left with the realities of what it's going to take out, which is maybe like those jobs with redundancies, and then slowly, slowly take over. Yeah, most of the word itself is gonna I mean, we're all we're already abusing it and probably using it  

[00:37:22] Kyrin Down:

in,   unhelpful ways because   what you know, what's the difference between AI and what, you know, just normal automation that can get taken away, such as   having an automatic.   What's that thing on the bottom of your email, which is our signature signature? You know, that didn't used to be there. Someone AI that someday   I   just created a program. So,   you know, it's probably  

[00:37:51] Juan Granados:

there's there's going to be more programs out there doing more things. I'll ask you a question actually before I move on. Will you buy a Tesla Optimus robot  

[00:37:58] Kyrin Down:

that can become available?  

[00:38:00] Juan Granados:

I got to be about 20 to 30,000 US and maybe let's just say 50 Australian 50,000 Australian dollars.  

[00:38:06] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, I haven't even seen the video yet. So I'm okay. They can they're claiming they're claiming it can do  

[00:38:11] Juan Granados:

most of your everyday chores at home. Like cooking, cleaning, or is there things okay? 50 grand   automates automates   and moves all of that out of the way. No more cooking, no more whatever else. I don't mind cooking.  

[00:38:24] Kyrin Down:

I don't like cleaning. So   yeah, if you can remember up the floors and clean the dishes, I wouldn't be too rough. So there you go. Second. But Peter, well, I appreciate that comment, mate. And the last one from bit when I'm when I'm rich  

[00:38:38] Juan Granados:

or slightly post rich, then maybe I'll. Then it's time and bit punk FM says boosting from the grave future past. Great episode to hear some of the history of demo and the origin.   3,363  

[00:38:52] Kyrin Down:

sets and using found them. Thank you, my friend. So this was the guy that I met in Bitcoin Nashville.   And I actually still have the sticker here.   Punk FM. Oh, very nice. So he was,   he's got a couple of podcasts,   episodes out and   related to   men, he's he's working on all sorts of stuff. And I've forgotten his name. Unfortunately, I thought it was like Tim or Tom. But I   tried I've tried looking it up before, but I couldn't find I couldn't find it. I mean, we've just decreased your mental health because I can't remember your name. I can't remember lots of things.   And I can actually tell him as well. He's if he's listening to this episode that he recommended a book to me called the square in the tower. It's all about networks and hierarchies. Okay. And, yeah, I just started that it's kind of like a history book.  

Cool. So I just started that this morning, actually, as I was unable to sleep in the early hours of the morning. Very good. Kinda just going down the path  

[00:39:47] Juan Granados:

of my sleep schedule. Yeah. More work.   Scary. Alright. 2nd 2nd part of this and look, I don't know how how deep this will go, but it's more around. Yeah. I thought practical and maybe philosophic   approaches to mental health.   The I mean, the question that I had for you, Ryan, was,   you know, if we   taught it, if we taught mental health, if you're trying to try to teach someone like a skill   as opposed to this airy fairy sort of style,   how might you try to teach your, as you're saying, your 15, 20 year old self now, nowadays,   what would you try to say to have tackled it maybe quicker   In terms of if like what we would define as Oh, yeah.  

A bad mental health or maybe said another way, 15 year old kid comes to you now. And let's just say,   I like up current. I'm   feeling mentally unwell, like my mental health is   down. And maybe says just a couple of things.   What might you suggest to such an individual?  

[00:40:45] Kyrin Down:

Oh, man, I mean,   if someone came to me just like that as a as a one off thing, or, you know, kind of out of the blue, I would unfortunately   have to default to the standard, which is, you know, add adding the general stuff. Fixing your physical health can actually really help with that. So, you know, getting 8 hours sleep, eating right, getting some sunlight,   physically exercising, those sorts of things.   If it's someone who it's like, you know, especially someone I can kind of train like a monkey, like I will little little baby down. Yeah.   Then I would probably be introducing more aspects of like   critical thinking   of   introspection,   perhaps,   you know, meditation of, of,   listening to your body or noticing what your own mind does.  

I think that can can solve   or maybe not solve, but give you the tools to at least analyze what the problem is. And then and then once you've got the problem,   that probably been my advice, like, Alright, let's try let's try and define the problem. Let's not try and fix anything per se. Yep. Unless you're, you know, suicidal or something like that, then obviously,   would have to put some interventions in place. But   analyzing the problem and getting to like the real heart of it is probably what I would I would recommend if someone was was coming to me and asking or saying something like that. Yeah.  

[00:42:08] Juan Granados:

So similar ways I've thought about it for myself or my daughter, or if other people were to talk about it, because again, this could be a very real thing that happens in 10 years time, whatever it may be in terms of timeframe, where it's like, what would you say?   Practically, someone comes to you, and it is   a 4 of your thinking, it's an it's a level of emergency,   then you need to interject with whatever is needed to get you to a some sort of stable position, whether it's external support,   or a call   or drugs, anything to get you to a beating,   beating A stable position. Man up.  

Well, yeah. And then that's the thing. That's the danger. That's the danger which will come into this next phase of what I'm talking about. It's   you need to be at   a semi rational state as opposed to very heavy emotional state, which I guess would be when you're   maybe another people's described like bad mental health. I would also put it across as you're very emotionally charged, maybe emotionally driven. You're   not really using your your logical thinking brain on on particular things. So do whatever it takes to get into a more rationally thinking brain, but   exactly what you mentioned then it's just   it's my recommendation or suggestion or conversation or even to myself would be just define it better. Just a better definition, I think practically   makes a lot more sense. Because the better you can better you can formulate the question about what the issue is, the better it is that the answer is going to become   half the answer is a better format of question. So, again,   put myself on let's just say that 2 weeks ago, if let's just say it's kind of fictional, so I didn't really think about it this way. But if I had had time to stop and go, Oh, man, my mental health is bad.  

It should have been a better but like, okay, what is that I feel I'm feeling I'm feeling tired.   I'm feeling anxious. I'm feeling coiled up.   Okay, well, tired. Yes, you need to find more time to rest   or formats and that you can rest in in short about   2, if you're feeling anxious, okay, we'll take some time away. Okay. So then there's I'm going solution mode, but it's that this definition down into those particular things, which then you can have more targeted approaches. Either you can do something willfully or you need that support externally.   Cool. Do so. But until you get to that definition, it's just foggy. It's just too foggy. Like, you don't you don't know what to do. It would be again the equivalent. Let's move away from mental health and just health in general or, like, any other   advice. If you said, Hey, go do a 1 handed handstand.  

Like me, like right now,   if I hadn't asked you for a little bit of detail on that document you sent, it would have just been like, Oh, cool. I'm just going to go and do handstands and see if I can do a 1 handed handstand.   That's not going to be successful.   I might fluke it. Yeah, but it's not, but it's not,   if I want like, you know, you know about it because you've learned about it and you've read about it.   I haven't   And so I guess it's a prime example of kind of like in mental health is just another   aspect of some of something.   I don't even know   how to break it down how to look at it. So for me to ask you a question of like, oh, hey, how do I do? I want to do I want to do a 1 arm handstand.  

How do I do it? It's kind of the equivalent question of saying,   hey, I've got bad mental health. How do I improve it? It's like, woah,   there's like a lot of underlying things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, and I know you've talked about, you know, core positioning, your practice, blah blah blah blah blah. So many things, so many things,   but you need to kind of discover or help or get someone to help you discover   what are the various things that you might need to break down to actually look at, oh, it's this that you need to focus on or you need to do this, this, this, this and this to kind of improve from it.   So I think that that was more so the practical nature of it all was you just needed to find it better. And you can either do that yourself,   or get external support to help you do that. That's  

[00:45:57] Kyrin Down:

so straightforward that I can think about it. Yeah. Do you want to know what the   main thing it was that that helped helped me get out of my my rut? My your rut? Yeah. When I was 20 going to the gym, go to gym for the first time. Yeah, you got gym gym fixes everything, but it gave me gave me the confidence. You know, that was I had some   wasn't wasn't the the core problem that I had, but certainly just like body issues was really skinny. Still am pretty skinny, but was skinnier if that's possible. And currently trying to get skinnier. Yeah.   And,   just, you know, what was it? Was it the increase perhaps testosterone from going through just confidence of seeing like, oh, shit, I can actually change my body so maybe I can change this thing as well?  

Lots of things could have been any number, even just perhaps going around to a place where there was more women around.   Who knows? But that was the one thing that like really   gave me then the confidence or the impetus to go, all right, I'm gonna fix this other problem that I have and actually   do something about it. So that was, you know,   that advice is not going to work for everyone. But that's what worked for me. That's what that's what helped. So the the other one I was gonna add, and this is unconventional.  

[00:47:11] Juan Granados:

Some people will not align to this, but I don't give a fuck. I think it is in some ways good.   I would say   also learn to recognize   that   what you think is either   hard work or challenging on suffering and again within   reasonability is   not a problem of   what you think it actually is, but it's rather a poor alignment of what you are doing. And   I guess the way that I would describe that in is   if I was to from this point onwards decide, you know what, I want to become   a chess grandmaster.   And   I did it for   caveat. I suck at chess. This is 9. I lose I lose my feet as ass all the time. But if I decided right now moving forward, I'm gonna become a chess grandmaster.   I could become better like I yes in practicing and doing it. I would become better.  

I would probably say I could you know see that in a couple of years time.   I would try to do some championships and challenges   and then get and then I think it smashed. I'd get like destroyed   and maybe I'd reflect back on it over a couple of years and going man, this is terrible. Like, I put in so much time. I didn't get good at this   blah blah blah blah because I aimed to do this particular thing.   I could make a claim at that point. I'd be like, my mental health deteriorating, like, I'm giving this my all. Again, you find that down to whatever it looks like, but I would actually say step back and I go there's kind of an alignment problem there because I don't give a fuck about chess. I don't care about it. I actually, the reason I'm not doing this because I don't particularly care about it and I   bet you   plenty of money that there would be younger kids, in fact, probably adults at our age or maybe even older, where you're just not aligned to what you actually truly want to do. And there's a very hard distinction between   what   people tell you to do and society tell you to and what you actually want to do.  

Case in point for yourself, you're doing a lot of things that society   don't want you to do. Not sure about your parents, but I think society runs.   Everyone looks at you probably be like, what the fuck are you doing? As evidenced by my insult at the Yeah. Yeah. But but even you yourself, you were saying you've had sometimes over the last couple of years where you said like, oh, shit, you know, I'm not working. Should I be working and earning and doing these things is the general expectation. But there's   other things that you're doing, which highly aligns you to the fact that you're wanting to become a really good handset and in the way that   use that language, it's an important thing for people to do. There are   let's just say more than 50% of society right now. There's probably in jobs or doing things,   which   largely for a paycheck, largely because society didn't want to do so largely because when you were younger, maybe your parents said, oh, yeah. Being an engineer,   scientist,   doctor, a lawyer, these are all good things. I do it. You do it for a while. You're like, what the heck? Why am I doing this? And you then   maybe you do have to work hard, you do have to go through challenges, there is the   expected suffering that comes with some of these things in terms of learning or doing or practicing whatever it may be. And then you go, fuck, like, I'm mentally   challenged because I'm having to do this and I can't go and be with my family and do sort of things and then you'll attribute that to bad mental health and   I put part of this to none of bad alignment because if you are doing something that you really really enjoy and you fully care about it, you won't give a fuck that you're going through, like, hard challenging times that you have to go and   rehab or prehab this or having to spend 6 hours working out every day. Some people would look at it and be like, what the hell am I gonna do that? That's, like, crazy. Why I can't do this? Are you really aligned to it? You don't think about that at all? It actually completely upends that definition in your mind.  

Again, to with with some of the hands on work that you do. I think a lot of if if you tell people Oh, yeah, here's what you have to do. They'd be like, I'm in, like, I'm I'm not gonna do that. That's ridiculous. But for you, it's like, oh, no, it's aligned to   a thing I want to do care about the outcome, you care about that modality of movement.  

[00:51:13] Kyrin Down:

There isn't a concern. It's more of a it actually feeds your day as opposed to taking away from it. Yeah. But I guess like, you know, once the you've got the problem or whatever it is that you're trying to work on   fixed or the not fixed but   defined,   then it's, you know, how would you go about   rectifying that or doing that? And probably a lot of that is is the self talk of,   I was listening to the the handstand cast recently and started to get back into that. And,   they were talking about one of the things that they've they   encounter with people is like, I can't handstand. And it's, you know,   they're going to handstand coaches. So obviously they want to do it. But it's this period of where it, you know, it takes a couple of years to get even semi decent at it,   especially if you're starting from 0 or, you know,   subzero if you're, you know, barely exercising your life.  

And one of the things they like to say is like, you need to add a word to that, which is I can't handstand yet.   And this is one of those ones where it's like   it's not necessarily good trying to live in the future. I can't handstand yet. You're just you're almost saying you're looking for this future thing, not appreciating what you're at the moment. But I think it's a way of solving that problem of wanting something but   not having it yet. So it's like, all right, well, just add yet onto the end of this. And there's probably other words which are   unhelpful to have as well in your repertoire of should probably dried up there.  

Maybe even if, like, if this happened, I could have done this or if this blah blah blah blah. So, yeah, that that kind of aspect of meditation   of quieting the mind probably   pretty, pretty good with that.   But if you're super lonely as well, you know, it's not   not sure meditating   all the time is gonna is gonna help. No,  

[00:53:05] Juan Granados:

no, no, because one of the examples I was actually running through my mind was so   trying to   think of a pushback or someone out there thinking it let's just say they're sitting at   a rental home, they're barely making weekly payments,   they're struggling with that no relationship,   hard to find some sort of job. You know,   again, in that circumstance, if you say, well, just break it down, you know, Batman will just break it down. What's the problem? They'll say, well, I need more money to live. I don't need more more this. I don't need more that. And it's all   it's all   very true   statements like there's nothing to take away from that. But   the call out there is   face like face to reality, basically,   what are you expecting? Because if you're set your expectation   of what you're thinking of, well,   whatever, my friend just bought a new house or I'm seeing these people have   kids and I've got none of those and I'm a failure to society.  

It is   completely utterly useless to think to yourself,   and your expectation should be that you're gonna do that, you know, the next day or something like that. That's not gonna happen. 9 months is gonna take for you to get a kid. You can't speed that up. But   there are the the, I guess, breakdowns of those things where it's maybe monetarily,   maybe it's relationship, like many people have stumbled in the past and going, you're also not unique.   It's also not a unique problem. There's   most of humanity has gone through the same issues that most people have. And largely there are ways to break it down and do something about it. Does that take away from the challenge that exists about it? No, but that also   shouldn't be the expectation.  

It shouldn't be a case of, oh, yeah, everything's just completely easy. And once you define it, there's no longer any harness. Like there's harness still there. It's at least, you know, what are some of the things and steps that you need to go and take to do it. But I also like that that aspect of mental health as a practical case,   When you feel again terms, big white terms down or not so significantly depressed that you have to go and do, you know,   something dramatic, which again, that happens, but it is   just going to the point of, yeah, it's also not unique. Like if I'm feeling this way, it's a large part that probably a hell of a lot of other people are going away and it actually makes it a little bit better. This happens in comedy all the time, right? A lot of comedians go through a lot of pain and become really good comedians because of the pain in that they share a lot of things and stories, which a lot of people relate to, right? And and get a little bit of comedy out of it. But in in truth, it's there's a lot of pain and shared suffering that you feel is unique.  

That isn't that a lot of people have to deal with. Yeah, yeah. The  

[00:55:44] Kyrin Down:

just made me think our friend Joey is like such a shit human being that he's probably got a lot to share. Like he's gonna be a great comedian. So actually,  

[00:55:53] Juan Granados:

what I just heard about it this morning that they moved to a new place,   mate.   And on the move, they lost the bolts,   or they caught that they purchased and that the baby should be   delivered in the next couple of weeks. So they're thinking they're gonna have to buy a brand new cot because they literally cannot find the bolts and it was lost somewhere along the line. Right? So someone like that again, an example like that is you could end depending on your state could be like man, this is tearing me down. You could think about it that way. You could think about   the way that you   attack that particular,   I guess, path is a very different thing. The only the last thing I was gonna say for practicality for mental health, attitude,   Attitude attitude attitude totally changes the way that you will look at things. If you are mopey,   hungover,   don't train   and something happens to you.  

Sure. It's probably more than not the generalization of mental health is going to bring you down.   But if you're   being going hard in terms of training   hard in your sleeping schedule, eating really well, the same thing will come up and honestly attitude will be   distinctly   different to   end up being in the same same human. I can tell you myself.   There's a completely different way that I might handle something in an anti fragile way when I'm all,   you   know, guns blazing or engines firing really well and when I'm not, it's very way different way of handling things and if that's within myself again, I'm not unique. There's everyone everyone would have to go through that. So   more specifically, practically, I find the things that do make you like, you know, giddy up a little bit. I remember writing this like years ago, I remember being it was music.  

Those specifically like specific songs.   I remember being like, okay, if I want to get pumped up for the gym, play a couple of these, if I need to get into some work mode, these are sort of things. I don't have now that specific   song choice.   But I certainly have the particular genre to do it at the moment if I want to work and I want to work   hard. And again, it might be because, oh, shit, you got to get this done by the next hour, there's a lot to do or it's late and I don't want to do this, but I still got to get done. You can make excuses. You can think that's gonna get you mentally down. I guess in that in that particular context for me,   the key thing for me would be like, cool. Right now, it's Fred again or work at the moment. I'll put Fred again,   London rooftop edition. It's an hour and 20 minutes, something like that. Yeah. Maybe a drink, maybe some water.  

Dude, I will I would genuinely work that entire period of that music that goes through. Yeah, kind of recognizing the song is there. And it would just go in a flash and I'll just do the work.   That for me works. That's like,   whatever boundary I've got to get over whatever challenge it's like, it does help.   Not unique. I'm sure most people have that or find that whatever it may be, do it. Because again, the it's a little hump into doing the action but also at the end totally helps out with something like mental health or being sad. That's the final one from my practice. Action,   action, action, action, action, action, action, action. So,   one thing that I'll steal it again off Chris Williamism, but it kind of applies here for mental health in that   talking   about being better   isn't actually getting better. Writing a list down of things to do to get better isn't getting better. Talking to a friend about it is a little bit better, but it's actually not doing the thing to get better. A lot of times it's doing the thing is actually doing the deed, the actual deed that gets you from,   you know, the depressive, the sad state, like the talking, if one of the aspects that's getting you down is mentally, I guess, for females are talking to females, or vice versa, talking to males, you go,   I can't do it. It's do whatever it takes to get you to the action mode. And that look, realistically,   if I said it to you to your 15 year old self, you'd still might have been like, fuck up. I'm not gonna go into it. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. But what is the like   first little step that you could potentially do? And that might just be, you know, for 15 year olds of today, you know, try talking to an AI.  

Go, you know, try practicing with someone, try doing whatever. Maybe you're gonna go to a yoga class, do all these things where it's just a little step and the next step and the next step because it's in the doing that gets you to   improve that particular health aspect of it as opposed to just ruminating because that's not helping you out. That's probably more the  

[01:00:10] Kyrin Down:

the differentiation   between the bad and the positive side. So you know, really overweight guys comes into the doctor or something. It's like, you know, doc,   you know, I've got bad mental health or whatever I need, I need help.   The recommendation   probably shouldn't be to   really work on the positive things, maybe avoid the negative things first.   And that's kind of I feel maybe what the mental health side of things would be, you know, start   start avoiding the people who are bringing you down, you know, the emotional vampires perhaps,   figure out what what exactly is your your main problem. Start with that, address that. And then the things which actually improve your mental health,   you know, we were saying before, there's no real word for positive mental health training.  

There probably is, but we just don't call it that. It's it's, you know, affirmations.   It's,   positive thinking. And this falls more into self development rather than it's not like increase your mental health. Yeah, that's a good point. It's actually a good point. It's more it will it'll be, you know, religious or spiritual or   or or,   manifestation or things like that. And it's   it's probably improving your mental health, but it's not,  

[01:01:24] Juan Granados:

but we don't we don't see that way. I think the way I define it is, in at least the last few months when I've been writing it down and some of my notes is becoming more anti fragile. I like view get in that way. Sure.  

[01:01:35] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Last couple of things here. So nahalrava   Khan is   a interesting guy.   Because he's one of those ones who it's like, get a brief spate of   podcasts. Everyone's like really getting into him. And then he just kind of disappears,   which I actually quite thought was pretty cool. I enjoyed that.   But he says   a calm mind you for calm mind. You don't want to meditate an hour a day. Like no one actually really wants to do that.   But you just want to be in that state all the time.   How do you do that without   doing that? He calls it understanding   is his phrase for doing it. And his real reign.  

Main recommendation is to not focus on yourself. Not shouldn't be I and me. It's gonna be like you when we or something like that. And   he says for himself and he seems to have   a be one of the people who are   just through his talkings,   I've been like, Yeah, he's probably the most equanimity.   He's got that tranquility,   that calmness.   And if he's saying   he he gets that via focusing more on other people, either helping them or   I   assume helping them,   maybe he's not. Maybe he wants to destroy them. I don't know.   But that that perhaps is the is the thing that   that   and whether you can get that you were just talking,   I even wrote down here.  

I'm not sure it's possible to have that all the time that that kind of tranquility.   Perhaps you could even call that focus. Maybe that can be next week's episode, an episode on like focus. Okay, you're talking about that then.   But there's also things that I think can take away from that.   And talking of that,   what have you got to avoid?   Politics,   Jesus Christ, people, you got to avoid politics that if you want something that will destroy your mental health.   So I'm not, you know, Trump got elected recently. I've tried to avoid it as most as possible.   Didn't watch any of the debates or anything like that.  

There's one thing I will get into, though, and that is people go and having fucking mental breakdowns.   All the libs crying. Oh, my god. So I just went on and, you know,   I'll do this in either way. It's   I just don't see as much of of this from if if like a left wing person wins. And then   I'm sure there's some right wing people having mental breakdowns.  

[01:04:05] Juan Granados:

But it's not seeing  

[01:04:07] Kyrin Down:

it. But as they don't post it and you know, have a video of them in the car. Just shouting. You're not talking like Jimmy Kimmel  

[01:04:16] Juan Granados:

Crying on TV is doing a show.  

[01:04:19] Kyrin Down:

So much crazy shit, man. And it's like if if if someone else can affect you that mentally hard.   And it's   a fictional it's like, Donald Trump is almost fictional in my mind. Like he's just so absurd, such an absurd person,   the way he speaks everything about him.   He was so far from removed. You know, if you're let alone if you're in the US, there's people outside of the US having mental breakdowns. Yeah. Because he won.  

[01:04:47] Juan Granados:

You gotta avoid politics, man. And this is one thing Namal actually doesn't do well because I saw him tweeting about politics on on Twitter. I've got a confession. I've got a confession to make. I think this this applies really well. This applies really well. It's again about politics because   you can make the statement, but Cohen,   you know, it's I wanna know what's going on. I wanna connect with it. It has some sort of impact, especially in the Europe in the US. Right? Maybe in other places across the globe, current it does.   Yes.  

But   is it gonna be detrimental to you personally more than it is gonna be beneficial? Mhmm. That happened to me on election day. Yeah. Why? Because I've been   avoiding heavily Morris political stuff. I told you, I've been not listening to Tom Bilyeu stuff because it's not political. Haven't really been reading things   apart from basically 24 to 40 hours beforehand. And what did I do? I consumed   the shit out of Joe Rogan's   interviews with Elon Musk and Trump.   All this stuff that I started listening, I was checking x all the time for the information that's going on and I was checking the results like live   every like 10 minutes, 15 minutes.  

I could have, you know, in the moment could have talked myself into like, yeah, I need to know what's going on because it's important. It's important to the world. Looking at it today, right now,   I didn't if I if I had not not done any of that, nothing would have changed right now. There's nothing I couldn't have I can't influence it anyways,   but   that particular day or days,   my mental health was pivoted. It was more focused. I was more aggressively thinking about these other things. Yeah. As opposed to other things.   Can I say that it affected me like that? That's mentally probably not. See, I think that's alright. It's alright. No. No. It is alright. That's all fun. However, however,   I think that is where it can be you can be lost in the you can make certain reasons as to why to it positive,   but to in fact, delete it out is the net positive   and yeah, I think you have to look at a lot of things in that way for mental health because just as as I can say,   let's let's let's take it for instance,   like something a bit strange, maybe   skiing. Let's say skiing for me. There's like and I go, you know, this is freaking phenomenal cool group of people and they all ski and they go every like month and you know, when I get to go there, I get to connect and interact and I really like to socialize with them and la la la la la.  

However, that also means that I put myself maybe pressure on my work and money and family and all these things, but I go, oh, but it's got these pros.   If if if that scenario, I really objectively looked at, I think I could find there would be more cons of going   the positive and I'm I'm glorifying the positives,   minimizing the cons, and then it will be veiled and hidden that in a few months time, I go, man, my mental health declining or I'm not connected with my family. It's like, motherfucker because you're doing this. Like this is the reason why you're doing that but it doesn't appear the way because we glorify those positives   and kinda   believe the comments to the side and not not realize where the effect is actually taking especially you as a person looking at it because externally,   it becomes real easy and maybe that's another one. If you think you've got and and and easy said that, but if you think you have an issue on mental health   and either wanna define it or haven't defined it, I do think finding a trusted confidant or people who talk about it is good because they can hopefully quickly get you to the reality of what it actually is that you're looking at because a lot of the times it's just you are hidden behind the point of view of yourself and you're not looking at it super rationally, super objectively,   which for a lot of things, not everything, but for a lot of things would minimize what that   problem is in your mental health space. Because I guess my final point was gonna be like,   3 sections of mental health. Let's just say, I'm going back to the full bigger definition. Okay. You're the first section, very like acute critical.  

It's like this emergency mode and you like in that aspect,   go bananas, do everything that you need to do to get out of that section. Not to you, I'm about to commit suicide or some other issues that are happening. Fucking don't get yourself looked after,   get yourself home only well,   speak to the people that you need to do that. There's nothing else that I'm suggesting in that manner. Then I would say like another section where it's kind of attached to   maybe like Maslow's hierarchy of needs where, hey, I'm really depressed because I don't have housing or I don't have food.   There are some immediate things I think you need to do there. Some of the conversations were like, oh, well, you know, wish it better and take some actions. Yes, to apply, but man, you need some help. Like you need some help to get on your feet and be like   be general on yourself in those moments because it is an issue. It's it's it's it's trouble.  

You need to support wherever you can get it. And some of the things I think we talked about apply. Sometimes you just need to go and get, like, supported to to get out of that state. And then there's probably   80, 85 percent. No. Maybe less because third world countries. Mostly 60% of humanity   where we talk about this mental health issue because whatever my dog ran away or I only got to run 4 times out of 5 or I twisted my ankle.   That is okay.   That section, if you're there, 1, well done, you're lucky to be in that section and 2, it's like, yep, you can start breaking these things down into skill, attitude. What you need to do, ask the question better, take some actions, go down the path of deeds.   There's solutions to that particular section, which for the most part and for most people who are listening to this, most mere mortals sit in that scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have much to add to that other than  

[01:10:00] Kyrin Down:

the one of the books I read recently, East of Eden, John Steinbeck. Great book. I read it. 8 of 10. 8. Yeah. Top 10 at least. I think I said 8 and a half. Yeah.   The   the characters in that book, they all have these kind of sufferings and woes. And this was written in   the 20th century,   19th   slash 20th century. And so,   yeah, people are just dying left, right and center of that book. Okay, just bang, bang, bang, bang. And they have all sorts of bad things going on with them. And you can see the ones who kind of get through it pretty well.   And they're the ones who are   more rational and more calm. They don't, you know, get   into positions   or things that are rising their blood pressure unnecessarily.  

You know,   watching all those memes of Donald Trump and libs and people crying, having mental breakdowns, memes and stuff   that didn't rise my blood pressure. I was I was just laughing my ass off for most of it. And from tomorrow onwards, I'm probably not going to even bother looking at it again. And I hope to hear nothing of politics for a fair while afterwards.   I will go out of my way to avoid   it. The people in this book, I think did similar things. And it was the ones who really struggled.   1,   they had, you know, some psychological issues. There was, you know, size,   sociopaths, psychopaths.  

I don't know if that can be mentally fixed.   Yeah. I'm not not sure about that.   And they they were the ones who really struggled with loneliness.   And then there was these kind of mid characters who   you could see that their problems, they had problems in their life, but they were exacerbated by themselves.   It was their own thinking, their own bullying of themselves,   beating themselves up for things they have or haven't done.   And those are the ones where it's like, oh, okay, they that's probably almost the most needless suffering because it's just inflicted upon yourself. So   things like, you know, therapy, even just talking on this podcast, I know for myself talking things out loud, even actually one thing I've started doing recently is, even though it's kind of crazy,   when I noticed myself   beating myself up about something, I just start talking, just talk about whatever it can be about that, or it can be start singing, whatever.  

I find that another way of   not meditating, but   keeping the mind occupied with something else. And,   you know, if I need to fix those things, then I should go and fix them when I'm not emotional, when I'm not have,   you know,   rise blood pressure or   an in a state where it's   not much productive is going to get done. It's, you know, the the actions instead of being like, alright, I'll set aside time to do this. I'm gonna work on this or, you know, fix this to be like,   I need to go out right now. And and if I can go to the casino and talk to a girl there and then go out and then not actually do it and then beat myself up harder. Yeah. So  

[01:13:02] Juan Granados:

yeah, that's focused. You need to be focused. Yep. That's the immortal ad. This is gonna be pretty much it. Yep. Focus is gonna be the the next topic. I think it's we will do that. Any particular   space within domain within focus? I'll I'll give some more details for you later, but Okay. People are looking forward to that. We do that live on Sundays at the moment, 9 AM. Australian Eastern Standard Time. Is that correct? For awareness, you're out in base here, breezy. If you've got any other thoughts on topics or ideas, feel free to send them through. I wanna give a shout out with something you might not have seen. Maybe you checked, maybe you didn't,   but we don't often talk about stuff like this. We got our first   sponsorship request,   like an official proper one just the other day. Did you see it? No. Came through the email. Someone reached out now pretty large Instagram following. They're from the US. They wanted to sponsor us, pay some money for us to talk about the particular   product they want us to put and I replied back and I was like, look, appreciate it. Thank you very much. That was, like, really cool. We don't take sponsorships.  

We don't do that in this podcast because we do these things. But it was actually interesting because it was like a sizable company. I was like damn I'll show you this after this. If you didn't see it I'll show you for sure.   But that kind of leads me to say is we we do this podcast without the any sponsorships without any support for external parties. We do the support   by the audience to listen to it through the Valley for Valley model. So you can send us through time, talent, treasure time, obviously, you can listen to us share this with other ones talent, you can up some of the stuff that Peter sends through right through with booster grams. But in other ways, you can send through  

[01:14:31] Kyrin Down:

queries, ideas, books, thoughts on what we should talk about. AI AI things that you think would be interesting to us. Yep.   Models. I mean, I've still I still use Peter's template sheet, which he helped me with with timestamps.  

[01:14:45] Juan Granados:

Correct. A fair while ago. So correct. Correct. Many, many things like that. If you hear us bleeding about a problem that we have and you can fix it, it helps us out. Yeah. Would love that. Yeah. And trying to, of course, sending through streaming, if you're listening to any other new podcasting platforms out there, sending through boost grams which is, the ability to send sats with messages attached as well if you would like.   It is on the new podcasting platforms out there like fountain, like charismatic.   I had a conversation about this yesterday just with a couple of people who was trying to explain,   yeah, what are these platforms and what it is that you get like supported by? Again, I tried to explain, look, we have a PayPal and you can pay you can support us our way. Yep. But the value for value model is a, let's just say, a more juiced up, a more value to value, like value for the individuals and users than a Patreon goes because it's a very direct way and Absolutely. Plays around with Satoshi's bitcoin something that we do see becoming,   more part of society or the threat of society as time goes on. Let's get bitcoin. Let's make it viral and rich.  

Pump it up. I'm sick of being pretty rich. He wants to get post rich. We gotta get some of these robots coming on on on the on the podcast. We'll leave it there for now. I don't think there's any questions we wanna take from the tube at all. Didn't see anyone.  

[01:15:56] Kyrin Down:

Nah. Nah. Although I did see, Patricia and Dimalex  

[01:15:59] Juan Granados:

jumping in. So thanks for Appreciate it for jumping in the live. Leave it there. Meanwhile, as well. Juan, out. Darren out. Bye.  

[01:16:06] Kyrin Down:

Go.