Mere Mortals Conversations

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What if God was one of us, just a machine like one of us.

In Episode #496 of 'Musings', Juan & I discuss: if AI is becoming our new god, why some people are treating AI less like a tool and more like an authority, grift vs belief vs larping on social media, what would convince us that it is indeed God, the human propensity for subservience and control (Big Brother vibes), whether competing AI “faiths” might emerge (mirroring historical religious splits) and simulation theory/multimodal AI/brain–computer interfaces that might make an AI religion feel inevitable.

Huge shout out to Petar & Cole for the support, absolute legends!

Cole's AI Episode: https://www.youtube.com/live/s_yQtFUUscw
Taylor Lorenz Video: https://youtu.be/zKCynxiV_8I
Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortals

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:03:53) Personal Use of AI
(00:07:21) What qualifies as a god? Powers, myths, and behaviour
(00:11:00) Motivations online: believers, grifters, and larpers
(00:14:05) Everyday grifts and aiconsumer traps in AI land
(00:19:09) What would make AI feel divine? Predictive power and control
(00:24:24) Three omnis test: omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent
(00:30:02) The Big Brother model: power without benevolence
(00:32:44) Boostagram Lounge
(00:36:22) Black boxes and emergence: when no one understands how
(00:41:18) Complexity isn't divinity: medicine and chess analogies
(00:44:08) Model pluralism: different AIs, different answers, different sects
(00:49:00) AI as the God via simulation theory
(00:54:29) Local scene: Brisbane AI meetups and investing interest
(00:56:23) Wrap-up: V4V

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[00:00:05] Juan Granados:

We all can be Mere mortals   We are indeed, welcome back me Mere Mortalites. It is the October 12.   It is a warm day here in Brisbane. You've got the two Mere Mortals here. I've got Juan on this side. And Kyrin here on the other side. And we're gonna be talking about   the gods, the new gods, the   AI gods, ladies and gentlemen.   This was a topic that got brought in by a listener, Cole, thank you very much for suggesting it. Cole has done some topics on this as well. I was listening to it yesterday, kind of like recapping some of the stuff that was discussed in his particular one. So Yeah. So to call it out in particular. 160.  

[00:00:42] Kyrin Down:

The podcast is called America Plus. And the episode was 167?   It should still have it in my saved here.   Yeah. 01/1967  

[00:00:52] Juan Granados:

Spirit GPT. Spirit GPT. So That was about three months ago. I have a couple of notes, and that's probably roughly around the time that Cole,   noted. Hey. It'd be cool if you guys talked about this particular concept. So I guess we'll we'll riff on it. Again, deep conversation with a lighthearted touch. There's probably gonna be some lightheartedness to it. I wasn't   entirely certain what this actually meant right at the beginning. Why? I hadn't I had seen seen, like, zero news on this. When Carl was talking about it around three months ago, now he's based in The US,   he was kind of pulling up lots of news articles and conversations. And I was like, I have   barely heard this at all apart from maybe a little comment here and there. So   in terms of how much we know this, I guess personally in a day to day life, at least I don't,   I wasn't particularly fully aware of it. Maybe you heard it in different contexts. No. Not particularly either. But I was like, okay. I'm gonna try to get a little summary. What the hell's going on? Why do people think this potentially?  

And again, being, you know, AI as a new god. And here, we're not talking about the   just Charge GBT, obviously it could be Spirit GBT, but we're talking   any variation of an automated tool, automated agent.   That's a subtopic of conversation I wanted to bring. So, yeah. So the trend, so this is like the summary that I could find. The trend is people are treating AI less like a tool   and more like an authority. I guess that's kind of the,   from what I could see, it's not that they're like in the full belief that they got apart from the 0.01%   that kind of are, but it's more that people are treating it like an authority and not a tool, I guess is what the main main trend was. And the the granting it quasi   divine traits. So a little bit of omniscience, as in it knows everything.  

Omnipresent, so it's always on in your pocket. True.   Omni,   omnipotence.   Yeah. It can do things for you. Okay. Not everything.   And increasingly the moral arbitration. So filters the policies or allowed versus disallowed. So maybe around that, there was a couple of other notes around like, you know, the similarities to like the priesthood and the temples and whatever else. But I think that was probably the cool thing of just being treated less like a tool and more like authority, right? So of being AI   being a new God or a new spirituality.  

Let's talk about it personally.   To you, do you feel like that applies at   all in the way that you use it, you've seen people use it or anything else. I have yet to ask it a single question related to spirituality.   And what and what do you mean by spirituality in that context? I, you know,  

[00:03:22] Kyrin Down:

questions of   the deeper   universe.   What's the meaning of life? Why are we here?   What are you do you have? Maybe I've asked it if it's conscious,   just for a laugh. And   you got either like a yes or no answer. Really?   No, I think it's a in   the response that I've gotten. Okay. Yep. So it's even been telling me no, I'm not I'm not conscious. And this is coming out at you know, fresh. I don't I don't have an extended model with memory.   When I use them   when I use it in particular Venice, which is just access to things like llama and deep seek and a couple of variations, which I switch around and   I just get very   kind of like the generic out of the box answer, I guess is the way to say it. So I'm not getting the   one that knows me. I'm not getting one that's had a long history   with me,   or has any   additional inputs other than just whatever the standard default   setting is? I don't even know how to describe these things. Yeah.  



[00:04:30] Juan Granados:

The Yeah. Okay.   One of the things I took is kind of like, confidence is not conscience. I guess that's one of the things is like, don't don't get confused when something like a model, even like a person, right, if they can be confident and correct for a lot of information,   doesn't   necessarily imbue that that particular thing is conscious in any way. So, like, that's that's one thing. But for people treating AI as a a god or an entity or a deity, I think the   even with the amount of users, like, I guess I use AI as a tool myself. So again, we're going personal, I guess, here. I still don't see it as an authority   in that I've experienced enough times where I've been able to   spot   issues or difficulties or it's still hallucinating in some particular ways where I will   the probability of most of the things I'm getting in return, I can see that, yeah, it's probably correct. However, I'm still questioning it for the most part, especially when it's really, really important. Where I think that's a distinction between, you know, I   what I assume most people would think of a God in that I am all knowing, all seeing, has all the answers. I'm gonna just try to trust it as an authority 100%.  

There's like that. I haven't seen that occur on my personal life. I haven't heard anyone in my   like, sphere that talks our way.   Do you think   if   if it moved to a point where you you know, the AI is basically answering or giving suggestions or giving information that's it's almost basically never wrong. It's like it's just always right or whatever it's giving.   Is there   a sway that goes okay, yeah, at that point, you could probably almost treated like a god because it it's kinda like someone going to whatever. Going to church reading the Bible and thinking like, Yep, here's all the truth. Here's all the information that I need to know. It's kind of like, same time. Yeah. I mean,  

[00:06:26] Kyrin Down:

God's a loaded term, isn't it?  

[00:06:29] Juan Granados:

The. What can I mean by there's only one God? So if you're listening to this, it's your God. All the other gods don't exist. I was just about to say the  

[00:06:37] Kyrin Down:

for me to   say,   yep, this thing is God or God like   and I should respect it or treat it as such, maybe not respect it, treat it as such. It would need to display the qualities that in my head are what gods can do. I   materialize things out of nowhere,   definitively.   I mean, I'm trying to think of what gods do in various contexts.   Like they typically like descend from heaven or they,   if they're Zeus, they can transform into   a bird or a thing and, you know, interact as that   very tricky outlook.   I don't know that much about religions and gods in terms of   diving deep into it. And I didn't wasn't raised in that context. So I'm   definitely   hedging answers here in terms of   that. What I'm more interested in is actually like   the people   already starting to treat it as in like their behavior, motivations, why they think it is,   and even the history of it. So Cole got in, he used a video   by Taylor Lorenz called Chat GPT is Becoming a Religion also published three months ago, really long one, forty   three minutes, forty two minutes long, something like that.  

And she really laid out a kind of not only   why   videos and stuff of people doing it now, but also   the historical context of people treating   technology   as   a new God or a religion type thing,   which I thought was really fascinating. That was probably the most interesting  

[00:08:23] Juan Granados:

piece of the whole thing was that this isn't new people have been doing this for ages. Yeah, correct. Yep. Yep. Like I was like, I don't know. What's the term of it before this all of the AI is like techno something? It was like techno not techno file. It was like a techno god or something to that event where it's like Yeah. It was like the you'd imagine the engineering software people who are   atheist at heart but, you know, have an ultra belief in technology and the improvement of innovation and humanity like that. So there's that type. But then there's also one to  

[00:08:53] Kyrin Down:

just the very basic, you know, any   what is it? Any advanced technology is indistinguishable   from magic,   for example. So, you know, if you take a drone   and fly it over people in the Sentinel Islands,   they're going to think that's God. So it's also dependent on true where you're from and your,   historical or not historical your, your current surroundings and what is capable. What it what is context. Context parameters. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So for, you know, say,   you know, if these were   simply videos of people in, you know, isolated parts of Africa or Latin America   or hell, even, you know,   someone in really, really rural   parts of The United States or Australia or something.  

Yeah, sure. I could understand why if you just gave them this thing which gave them all the answers and talk to them as if they were friends. Oh, God, this is this is this is magic. God, something that's beyond my understanding that whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Then there's the versions where it's more like the   Scientologists   where, you know, they've got the fucking E meter cans and   maybe that was technological   breakthrough at the time of   of electricity   being able to measure like, you know, pulses,   your skin, electromagnetic  

[00:10:15] Juan Granados:

activity that your skin  

[00:10:17] Kyrin Down:

produces that is electromagnetic,   which is maybe what those do. I'm not. I'm not entirely sorry. Yeah, either. I think there's like some   there's something   in that where it's like just normal variations of the body produce   like   results on these things. But the whole Scientology is in a kind of black box   of lies and, sure. Yeah, yeah. Secrecy.   And   so those sorts of people who are just jumping in,   those are more the ones where I'm like,   they're they're already look really looking for   a savior or religion of some sort.   The technology piece is just   the modern version of it. You know, they for whatever reason, they're not attached to the current versions of or the old ones of Christianity or Islam   or wherever Buddhism.  

And so they've just found a new one and   that's exciting. That's, that's what they're into.   So   yeah, that, that was, that was really interesting him showing that   the also other thing that really got out to me. So and a question for you,   they showed a bunch of videos and that's people,   typically TikTok type ones.   I've,   and a lot of it's really selfish and egotistical as well.   I've awakened   my chat GPT like I've unlocked it. And this is   Yeah, well, I'll ask your opinion on this, which is   of these types of videos which are getting spread, and this is the whole reason we're talking about this stuff.   How many of these are people who genuinely believe how many or percentages wise, how many of them are people who   so genuine believers,   grifters.  

So this is people who are like, if I talk about this, I can make money off of it.   And then the other one   that I had for this was going to my notes here. How many of those who are just like lapping as in this is fun to pretend that I'm I've awakened by chat GPT and they're not actually making money of it. Like their motivation is more to have fun or to make or to ridicule people. Yeah. Yeah. I reckon. I would say Percentage wise, what do you think? I reckon 50% grifters. Like, I'm gonna say the big half is grifters. Okay. 25%  

[00:12:40] Juan Granados:

is people just lapping, enjoying it, mucking around with it, kind of partaking it because maybe extra views and something else. And then the other 25%   are like true   believers,   maybe   past atheists or   scrambling for something in relation to answers and going, actually, this is as close or as good as I need it to be to   be a religion of mine. I'd probably say something. I reckon there's a lot more grifters that maybe people like would think in that space for sure. Sure. Yeah. And and that you can have  

[00:13:14] Kyrin Down:

overlaps between   as well. You can have someone who genuinely believes and they're producing really clickbait. Well, this one was interesting on who was it? I think Chris Williamson,  

[00:13:24] Juan Granados:

was trying to define like what a grifter was. And I was maybe I heard it someone else. Well, it was saying like,   or at least they were trying to find it as like a grifter, someone who's trying they're selling something that they don't believe   or that they wouldn't buy themselves.   So, you know, under that, I can't take it as like, nah, a grifter is just someone who's like doing it and talking about it. They don't actually believe it and it's full. And They're just like, they're therefore   leveraging   the system that's applied to try and benefit themselves without a real belief. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a grifter. There'd be a believer trying to also, like, push it. So I think the true believers, a quarter.   People just mucking around, another quarter.  

And then 3%,   I reckon it's just like a big pile of grift is just trying   to score a buck. So again, I was talking to no, no, this doesn't apply directly to AIs and God. But   just because, you know, me and you have have been using these tools for a while now, and I would not say that we are advanced users, not even close. Right? But I know of people, right, my wife's mom, who bought a tool. She literally paid money for a tool. And I went over to her place just by chance. We we just dropped by. She kind of was really excited. She was like, showed me I bought this tool. It, like, gives me this, it's kinda like a course basically to help her understand through AI. And I looked at what the initial payment was for, and it was to provide   access to chat g p t, DALL E, among other things, which are all the free versions of it. Right? So this I wouldn't say it's a grifter, but, you know, it could it could be like kind of in that like, it was like this course that was advertising itself is giving you access to all these things, which are already in a free state. You can just get that. Sure. And then it was using those exact same tools to create the course. So again, all free things just, I guess, packaged up and with a cost.  

And then if they hit them with a oh, and by the way, but if you spent $140   a month,   you get the higher level access to these models and, you know, more studies and more courses, which again, it costs $20 for some of these ones.   But I so I can see that sort of grifting, I guess, in the AI God space in the,   again, I haven't, like, fully delved   into it to find about I'm sure it exists on through videos where people will be like, I've unlocked   the I've unlocked my GPT.   Pay me $5, $10, and I'll give you the prompts that unlock so you can use it as a god. For certain, there must be so many of that. And equally, there would be a lot of people who then buy into that for sure because then it, you know, kind of like a religion, you know, religion, you read a book or, you know, read the Bible, the Bible says, you know, John three sixteen, blah blah blah. You read that, you're like, that'll pass in my life. That's how I'm gonna do it. Similarly, someone who might be   unknowing of how the process is working with AI, you know, you go, holy shit. I just asked it about this thing in my life, and it told me, and it gave me reasoning and whether fuck it. This is a god. Like, I'm gonna listen to it. I can see why people would buy that through, like, from a group perspective. For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah,  

[00:16:20] Kyrin Down:

I I've I've really struggled to try and figure out   the motivations   of of a lot of these things.   I'm inclined to   generally   think that the,   like, larping side of things of just doing it for fun is relatively little. Because it's just   but there, you know, there, I guess there is,   how do you distinguish or like the best actor is the one who fully immerses themselves in the role, right?   Yep. That's, that's   when the best results are produced. So   when and I think you see a lot of this on type of like Louis Theroux type documentaries where you go in, he'll start with like, you know, just the sub tier of here's someone like a relative of someone who's in like a really cult like thing or who believes something really far   out. And you kind of go down the steps of him talking with people who are like, oh, okay, you know, they're just a really outside member of the Ku Klux Klan or like they heard it, they saw the, you know, the they maybe pay a Jew, but they,   a Jew is in like a fee. I'm not a Jewish person.  

And they will,   have a membership, but they don't go to any meetings. They certainly don't put on the, like, the hoods or anything. And then there's another person   who is just like one step further along. And   some of them you can see they don't generally believe it, but they're like, Oh, you know, it's fun. I enjoy the like the community.   Yeah,   the white hat thing silly and whatnot, but whatever.   I   just part of it. And then   the more they do it, the more than they're they're step by step towards the you can kind of see   the progress into   finally becoming, you know, a full fledged Ku Klux Klan member or whatever.  

Maybe this is a dated example, because I don't know how strong they are. The clan is nowadays, but certainly got a bad rep. So probably probably not probably not  

[00:18:20] Juan Granados:

too   strong.  

[00:18:21] Kyrin Down:

But this is   nothing new. And honestly,   the   do you see any differences between this version variation of people diving into   a   new belief system,   something that   is on the fringes, probably,   probably not true, maybe AI is God, but probably not.   Versus   a one without the technology aspects such   as veganism, for example, you know, you can go deep down the rabbit hole of veganism.   Or is there anything about the technology aspect that makes it   more viral, more interesting than any other   culture show religion   type of behavior?  

[00:19:09] Juan Granados:

Yeah.   Maybe the fact   maybe the fact that it's like   an emerging   an emerging thing and something that's for most of us kind of come on really quickly that makes it a little bit more,   exciting maybe. And so then people wanna, like, gravitate towards it more. Although I was thinking so, because I was gonna ask you,   what would it take for you or me to be like, yep, AI is gone? Like, to that. Because,   if I was to think of, again, religion, because both of our like, I did grow up   not religious, but in a religious   environment Sure. And not wanted it, like,   absorb into my conscience. I went to Sunday school even here in Australia. Really? Man, I like I remember I remember, man, zero got absorbed into my mind around religion. Like, literally zero. But we were in a community at at least I've kind of got surrounded by that. Sure. And   if I was to think now, what would it take me to become religious and to be believe in a God? I would say,   this is probably a separate thing. I wouldn't even say I'm atheist anymore, but not really believing in any religion. So we can talk about that a bit later. But if I'm like, what would it take for me to be like   AI or whatever   is God, is like this   emergent being that is, again, omniscient,   omnipotent,   omnipresent, all sorts of stuff.  

I think it would take   being   something so black box, something so beyond   rational or understanding   that it's like, okay,   this is now doing things that I,   me, nobody can understand.   Nobody's putting forward.   I might as well go, okay, cool. That you can treat that as a god because who knows what the hell is going on here. Whereas   I think right now,   the distinction for someone who hasn't participated in the space versus they would have an AI is that if you really have never   played around with the space or the technology and you just go, I go into Venice or I go into X AI or I go in, like, rock or I go into LGBT and I ask   something and it gives me the results and it's correct and it pulls it from somewhere. You don't know exactly how to bring it. It might as well be magic AKA. It might as well be a god. Sure. If you're like, but you can do, you can teach yourself or you can do some learning and you can figure out, oh,   that does a very, very, very, very simplistic   explanation, but it's all probabilities.  

So probably okay. So there's like there's a mathematics, there's probabilities to it. You can learn that, you know,   there are laws and commands and specific,   intents that all the different companies who create the AI, the actual, you know, language protocol   put towards them. So that's why there's some slight differences to it. Okay. So there's some controls around that. And you can, you know, the everyday individual, if you wanted to, you could kind of go and figure out that it's probability based. It uses some mathematics and this is how it generates things. You go, okay,   by seeing behind, you know, the veil,   you go, okay, this is no longer God to me at least. I go, this is no longer God. It's like, I understand that I'm giving it information. It's creating all these probabilities. Yes, it's amazing the shit that it's doing, but it's amazing in a in an understood way. If it was like,   the example I was gonna say, so I'll ask you, I'll ask you, what would it take for AI to be a god for you or like a religion? It would be   if I, which I've seen, there's like a, ChattyPT OpenAI has one called Pulse. So Pulse   is you,   open up in the morning and it's   understood from yesterday's day what you've been asking, what you've been searching for.  

It'll also know by your mails and stuff like that, and it'll give you, like, for the next day, like, oh, seems like your leg was sore. I've looked already and seemed like I could book you in for a doctor's appointment. Oh, you've got a meeting in midday, but you also want to go lunch with your wife. I've rescheduled it to go out. Something to that effect. Right? So that that sort of level,   that's still not enough. It would for me, it would literally have to be,   I go in one night and use one of these tools   and it says,   hey, watch out.  

I've I've I've checked the probabilities. You're probably gonna get into a car crash, you know, on the Tuesday because of this and this, and you're probably gonna be really angry about this conversation with this human. Actually, I know that you've woke up this morning and you're feeling a little bit like this. You've gotta feel like this in the afternoon. That's like going like It predicts the future. Yep. Like, oh, yeah. And and predicting the future. And again, even I can know, I could I could rationalize myself and being like, it's again probability   of future predictions, but to such a,   such as such a state of correctness that it might be wrong, you know,   point 1% of the time. So for the most part, so correct that it might as well be predicting the future.  

I would go, alright, fine. Call it a hours of God because at that point, yeah, there's very little differentiation to,   you know, other religions that I can imagine. You know, if someone someone going like,   you could compare it to, yeah, but when we die, we go to heaven. And then again, how do you prove and disprove that to some degrees? You know, if this thing predicted like, hey, two years from now, you'll make it you'll do this and this person you'll probably meet and you'll end up doing that and going like,   man, if I can't understand how it's doing that, and you might I can see people going. Yep. Yep. I get  

[00:24:24] Kyrin Down:

it. Yeah. Okay. For me, the easy, the quick and easy answer is   a really   serious   head trauma.   Just like   really fucking really knocks me out.   I'm fucked up.   And the reason for that, so I'm not trying to insult people here. There's a joke to get me to my point.   The   the it would need to satisfy the three qualities. So probably, you know, if I've had a really serious head trauma, I'm going to be in the hospital for a while. I'm going to not be able to exercise. I'm not going to be able to let's just say, like, fucks my vision or,   or I have no access to like   library books or things like that.  

And all I really have access to is   chat GBT, whether whether on the phone or laptop, or maybe even, you know, a speaking version, for example, let's say   I've damaged my vision. And so all I can do is like speak to it, and it gives me and I've got a speech to   text, sorry, just a speech version that replies back to me.   So it would need to satisfy the omnipresent and that would be more   just a complete change in my lifestyle because I don't use it that much. It's   once a day for two minutes.   And   so that would need to change   the   like Omni. So what was it omnipresent omnipresent   omniscient omniscient   It knows everything.  



[00:25:55] Juan Granados:

That one omnipotent, which just can do all the actions for you. Or like omni powerful or something. Yeah.  

[00:26:00] Kyrin Down:

So   it knowing everything.   Yeah, it would need to know everything. So it need to know everything about me.   I guess,   can that ever   happen? You know, there's things I've never told other people, or there's certainly things I've forgotten,   which other people know about me,   it would need to have that access to all of that. So   this certainly would just need to be ingesting   all data everywhere,   every time. And this is where I also don't understand   why people think it's   God already. If it's, you know,   if you can't like,  

[00:26:40] Juan Granados:

tell me what's going to happen with my body the next day, you know, or if I've got a rash or something, what, you know, what's this rash? What's this? But the people who actually believe in, you know, in a God, or in a religion, was that a Christian or an Islamist or whatever, do they really believe that they're gonna, like, that the God is gonna know what they're gonna know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I guess they don't. Like, what I guess in this context, and maybe we're both missing it.   What does a God generally do to a Christian or an Islam or something like that, Ron? Yeah. It's like, it's the beliefs,   it's values,   it's like their alignment in life,   the choices that they make or a potential   outcome that they reach.  

So like if   AI can do all that technically,   but it's both guarded by whatever   developers and companies guardrails have been set because again, Venice has less guardrails than an OpenAI,   right? But again, there's guardrails in there somewhere to steer you or to put you in a particular path so that   you can like generate those things, like the values and the choices and whatnot.   Similarly, who I could imagine a Christian would speak to a God, I go to church and be like, I shouldn't sin. I shouldn't do this bad thing. You know, that's immoral in my particular religion. I'm sure you could you yourself could build that out in an AI to help you with that.   If if the AI literally, like, you know, if you would just in whatever way, voice, text, whatever, if you just were walking around and it said to you like, no, Karen, do not do that. That is immoral based on your values and these things.  

I can start to see why people would be like, okay,   might as well be a god because it's kind of giving me like, tell me what the values and what things I should be doing and my choices and shit like that. A lot of religion is about subservience.  

[00:28:22] Kyrin Down:

It's the   subservience to a higher being. And so yep, you can frame frame that in a really positive way as in   your,   you know, becoming more humble that's having,   you know, perhaps effects on like, your ego, there's a certain I mean, look at,   you know, we know, sadism,   masochism is a thing.   So there's obviously a lot of masochists out there.   There's obviously therefore   joy or pleasure in being subservient. So   once again, not claiming everyone who believes in religion and the masochist,   but there's   that's a logical conclusion you can draw and say, okay, there is a,   there's benefits to   being subservient to a higher power.  

And   for a lot of people that works wonderfully for them, psychologically speaking, and has really great   effects in their life.   So I could understand   why   why you would   enjoy that both in a   enjoyed in the good sense of like, it's helping you out. It's making suggestions that can improve your life.   Having really positive effects. You know, people I'm assuming wouldn't join religions if it was having negative effects on their lives, by and large. Yeah. So well, at least I thought that now. Yeah.   I could also see the other side, which is okay, let's say it's more the controlling type, it becomes more of like a big brother type   God where,   you know, Big Brother. Watching you and telling you in 1984,   Big Brother was essentially a God. It could see into, you know, Winston Smith's room.  

He   really couldn't have secrets from it, even when he thought he'd like, you know, squirrel this thing away in the very back of his mind that, you know, I'll always have this and it'll never be able to break me. They knew about it and they broke him, you know, room I think it was Room 101.   Yep. They broke him in Room 101. And   it,   that was more of the vengeful   God where it's like,   okay, this this God is all powerful or controlling and it's not out for your best interests. Yeah, it's out for the best interests of itself   slash the system.  

So both of those two, you know, if if those two things came to pass where it was like   undeniably   making my life so much better in every single way that   me   trying to fight against its suggestions was making my life worse,   then I could probably be on board and saying like, Yep, all right, this thing's so powerful, making such a positive effect on my life. Yes, it's a God.   And then the opposite version where it's like, it's so powerful.   I can't do anything against it.   And   anything I do against it makes my life worse. Then Yeah, you're like, Yeah, this this I've got to treat it as a God. Because Yeah, so so those kind of those two, and that that gets into like the powerful aspect of it as well. Like if it can   control other people. And   another one would be I guess, like,   if   30% of Australia   started worshiping   AI GPT.  

That would probably have a pretty strong impact on me. It's like, okay, this that   even if I don't particularly understand it, there's obviously something very powerful going on here, which I. Yeah, it might have just be like the power of numbers and being like, fuck, everyone's doing it. Like, I'm fucking enough to, like, translate it to that. Yeah. You know, I live I live in Australia, call myself Australian, but   you could just go like, this is just a piece of land on Earth.   There's no need to like for me to identify myself with you   and call myself Australian. But, you know, I do because we all do that at convenience. So   yeah,   we have an audio issues.  

Not  

[00:32:21] Juan Granados:

terrible audio issues, but   Peter does call out that there is a horrific   echo. Oh, no. On the   it's a little bit. It's a little bit. Thanks for the   info. Good to see you. You said turns on the on Discord as well. So,   sorry for the nasty echo, unfortunately, on the live feed. No. I just turned down the volume on gain, so that might be what's doing it. It. That's okay. I was gonna go into the, boost scrum lounge anyways just while we're looking at this. To you, one, we are live. We're live on the Sundays.   I'm gonna read out the the boost program lounge because we do have a boost coming through. So thank you very much, Peter. You know, this is not directly any stats, but just for letting us know. A bit of an nasty echo on the live feed, so we'll see if we can fix that up. Yeah. Appreciate it. I'll call out some of the the boosts as well.  

I don't even think I called the one out from Cole,   which was on the   on the October 5.   Cole sent us through a, I'm getting leaner along with Kyren. I'm experimenting with hot yoga too. My first session is on Monday. We will see how it goes and how I feel. That was eleven hundred eighty eleven sets. So using fountain and he did a follow-up message as well letting us know that he enjoyed it, and that it was very good. So all the best, Carl, on your journey of getting leaner.   I would love to get leaner, but as I've said to a couple of people now, I have not lost any weight no matter what I do, but I also haven't been putting on any like significant fat as of late either. I'm leaner. Like, how much have you how much weight have you dropped? It's probably a solid kilo over the last couple of weeks. Okay. Good. Very good. I maintain   plus or minus 100 grams of between 90.991   kilos.  

So,   thank you very much anyways, Cole for that. And then we've got,   Peter, who also sent through a boost. And this was a real nice one. I wanted to, like, read it fully, but I wanted to open up specifically   for this session.   He's had another wonderful episode filled with genuine talk. This is in relation to the podcast when we were talking about just our goals, monthly goals, annual goals, life. You both probably know that I don't practice goal setting myself, but watching you two reflect on life in an honest way is really, weirdly   comforting,   company. So, you know, weirdly, comfort? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Weirdly. Awesome. But the dog is the real star of the show. So Of course he is. Of course. And that is Rob Dux 2222   set sent using fountain. So Peter, much, much appreciated as well.  



[00:34:40] Kyrin Down:

Thank you, Peter. Very much appreciated.   Yeah,   so interesting that we can have   very similar kind of mindsets,   yet he doesn't do any goal settings or,   that's just not part of his kind of makeup, but,   at least in the tangible form of of doing it. But   I would say like, if you look at his actions and things like that, he would still do things which are reflective of someone who goes because golf says maybe does it in his own head in his own in his own way.   I'm, I'm kind of like a dog dad now, to be honest. He's a dog dad. If if you look at my  

[00:35:17] Juan Granados:

phone. It's just photos of Butters. It's pretty close to me.  

[00:35:22] Kyrin Down:

The it it dominates it dominates the feed now. It definitely dominates the feed. I'd say half   half of the photos in my phone.   That's a bit too much. I thought   he is not on my home screen though or my lock screen. So I would say to make it though. Yeah, I would say  

[00:35:40] Juan Granados:

90% of my photos are my daughter. Like literally 90. And yes, my my lock screen is   your daughter, daughter and wife. So   Yeah. That's that's fair enough. All right. I haven't gone too far down the road. Yeah. But then again, if if a if a dog dad was doing that, maybe it'd be a a bit extreme potential. I'd be like, okay. It's it's maybe a step too far. What's that? If if, if you had, like, your dog is your lock screen and 90% of your photos with dog, they'd be like, okay. Oh, no. I feel like there's Some people out there like that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't I'm not sure   I'd call it. Probably who believe I asked if I can go.  

So the other one I was actually gonna say around this was,   maybe the other way that again, not not God. Oh, yes. The chucks, the chucks.   Not exactly   not exactly   the the God concept, but something slightly different is that   AI right now comes out of setting before. Again, it's a technology that is   it's understood.   And obviously the closer you are to the,   the building of the technology, you probably understand it more.   But even they themselves, the individuals, the people who are working in this company is building it, they do go like there is something about it that is emergent in that. So if to understand it,   as probably I'll see how how good I can train inside this because I was thinking about this earlier.  

If you wanna look under the hood of of AIs in large language models in general,   they are basically   big old matrices,   huge matrices,   where   every   word is usually broken down into some form of token.   They leverage multi dimensions. I'm not talking three, four, five dimensions. We're talking like 12,000   dimensions   where every token tries to get a little bit closer to the sentiment of what the rest of the sentence is. So it gives everything a bit of a sentiment, but they all different models use different types of   weights, types of origination tokens of words that are coming in, different ways that, like, permutations of running it through the making it more similar or more sentimental to each other. And then in the end, you get all this big load of probability of what's the next word? What's the next word? What's the next word? What's the next word?  

Is that exactly how the models work   now? Not exactly because there's been things of,   the chain of reasoning   and   like recursive   replays of how it runs. I'm sure the actual architecture is slightly different to that particular thing. But for the most part,   me telling you, I kind of feel like I   understand that a very, very, very, like initial scratching the surface level. And I've seen the equation that go kind of makes sense. But what what would happen is, and I'm sure   maybe this will happen, where   the AI generalizing it here starts   helping itself out and creating, you know, a better approach or different ways or it starts as recursive learning and getting better and better and better to the point that no human knows what the hell's going on. Like, to a point that it's set it's built in architecture   or it's built up some processes and it's doing something that is so black box that you might look at it, you might even look at the system or the nodes and whatnot and go,   we haven't a clue. Like, we have no clue   what input is coming in, what weights it's using. We have no clue how it's generating these things. And all of a sudden, it's not like so again, if you were to get an AI and you went, can you convert this into a word document? There are some steps in the process that needs to be chained into, okay, do this, create a text, go and connect with this particular   software, go and create, generate these things, right? You can kind of understand it. But if it was just going,   I'd only beyond that to doing whatever it is that you're asking it to do without   any understanding from anybody that were just like, Hey, here's how you access it.  

We have no clue.   Then not so much like a God, but I could   imagine because of the lack of like reasoning   or logic in it that people could say going like, Oh, no, that's an authority. Because   nobody can tell you that it's not an authority. Right? Because it's just all of a sudden just going wild, but just doing things that nobody understands.   That gives me in a like similarity to a God in that, you know, the way I'm thinking that the Christian God here of, you know,   creates the world and, you know, the seven days and blah blah blah and the stories around it and generates all these things in humanity. You know, if this AI is just   generating   ideas or helping you out with things that just you can't even, like, map back. No. It's not even probability anymore. It's just doing it through   whatever. Let's just say it's, like, quantum mechanics and doing every single potential   universe of possibility. And, yes, maybe it's probability, but doing something fucking else in there will give you the result. You have no clue. I could see then at that point, you'd be like,   I might as well treat this as a god because, like, it's   I I can no longer say that this doesn't have the authority.  

Like, it's just gone beyond understanding of of what it is. Yeah.  

[00:40:34] Kyrin Down:

I can see   the the the logic of why.   Yeah, something's too complex, that therefore it's   a higher being or a spirituality   aspect to it.   Me personally, I'm more inclined to the the kind of evolution type of thing where it's just   there is some sort of force,   the evolutionary force driving things forward.   You can break if you if you break every single step down   small enough, you could explain every single step, but when they   come   to be so   far along and complex,   I the eye that this used to be the thing.   Evolution could never design an eye it's too complex.   The there's no way that that could come about.  

Yet, you can kind of over the years with enough   research and   what is it, fossil records and things like that, they're eventually able to show, okay, you know, this is somewhat of the way that it could have happened. You know, here's the thing without an eye, here's the thing with an eye, here's a bunch of like bridging steps that got you there. And so like, we've already seen this where I think it was saying,   there was   this was before ChatChippity. I remember hearing something about this where it was or maybe it was just after it got released.   It's being able to detect cancer patients or who   patients who have cancer   faster than doctors can or more early.  

But when they ask it specifically how   it couldn't just spit out an answer and say, here are the   five or 10.   Interacting,   you know, molecules found in like blood, blood level was this blood sugar was at this level,   trace trace amounts of X, Y, Z   in their blood.   All of these things go together to indicate, okay, this is probably an early warning sign of cancer. Yeah. But I feel like it was just because it couldn't explain   just how complex all these things were, it doesn't mean that there wasn't a   kind of a logic or a based   behind that.  

So   just because something is so incredibly complex doesn't necessarily mean that it's   godlike.   Also, look at Magnus Carlsen.   He does moves which he himself can't explain,   but that's because he's done so much work that it's kind of   things in behind the scenes which are working where it's like pattern recognition or whatnot   that, oh, that move over there is a bad move. I don't know why it's a bad move, but I just know it's a bad move. And then   if you play out the full sequence, you go, oh, okay, yeah, that was a bad move, but   it takes like  

[00:43:26] Juan Granados:

five fucking hours. Yeah. Like the real the realization of it comes later as opposed to Yeah. Yeah. The Yeah. What I was going on in the background, kinda like,   give the the vibe, the feeling. It's like, yeah, that's built up on   knowledge and wisdom, whatever, from however much time that his practice understands. But there's people out there who  

[00:43:44] Kyrin Down:

you can see they default of   something is so complex, therefore,   it's   a higher power or a higher being or something. Whereas my default is, okay, something's really complex.   I just don't understand it well enough or it's   takes just so much time to understand that   I don't default into.  

[00:44:05] Juan Granados:

Here's here's my  

[00:44:07] Kyrin Down:

my final statement on this. Let me let me do one more thing   before that, which is   I also don't understand why they're just picking.   So I was a lot of these things and people in these videos were going, I've unlocked GPT that was   particularly talking about GPT.   How have they not played around with any of the other models? You know, can you have a God which is   multifaceted   in a way in that it gives different answers to different people because they're all going to be using   as soon as you've   started giving it some memory and you've   had a conversation with   it, it's going to start saying different things back to you versus someone else who's   using it.  

And then let's just say I did this with my brother the other day because we're we're trying to figure out   how long you can stay in a sauna for before   it gets dangerous or when people die and things like this. And we use the exact same input. I can even read it out to you and we're but we're using different models. He was using it with GPT   and I was just using one of the basic, Venice Venice options. So the question was, do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do would it take an average person to die in it? And what's some instances of someone getting trapped in one and dying? I How long did it take? We were obviously talking about how long were we could stay in the in the sauna at the gym.   And   it wasn't completely different. But it was certainly different enough where I went, Okay, well, your answers complete is is different enough than mine that I'm like, this isn't even the same thing. It's which again goes back to which was Yeah, is your authority. Right? Yeah. Which so I just go,   Yeah.  

I feel you also need to be locked into something if you're really going like chat, cheapy tees of God.   It's,   it's undeniable   or super clear.   Having them   try out but   I guess this is okay. Here's a prediction. Will we have various types of AI religions popping up? So say people are like, yeah, we will for sure religion. Yeah. We'll have a We're gonna have a llama. I mean, you already see it. You already see it. You see it in,  

[00:46:32] Juan Granados:

in the grok. Anyone who uses grok or it'll,   plays around with x. Whenever you see posts about this and in relation to it, it's like   it's a war between a grok and anything else. It's like, oh my god. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You see it. Like, it's like   a nearing religion levels, like, fight of, like, get the hell out of here. Look how much better this is. And like like, it does this so much better.   So you could get you could see that it would eventually become very much like this versus that. Yeah. So so the  

[00:47:02] Kyrin Down:

the Apple, for example, had a quasi religious fan base   and   you can even see it in the green versus blue tech sort of thing in America, especially not not really a thing in   most of the rest of the world.   But I'd feel like it didn't descend   to the ultimate level of whether it's   a religion or not.   When violence comes into play,   I   your your ideas are so ridiculous. You're so blasphemous   and I need to hurt you or something like or violence just erupts,   which you always see in the heavens gate colds.   Yeah, I'd call that a religion. And then you know, then they I think you could get there. I think you could get there eventually with enough like, yeah. And I guess like,   then it would just be   usually it's geo   geographically   constrained as well.  

The West had Christianity, the East had, you know,   Buddhism,   The Middle East had Islam,   things like that. You   know, Christianity was also around there as well.   So   it probably   Yeah, it could just turn out to be like, alright, you know, America   GPT   religion   versus the Chinese deep seek religion.   And yes, there's like the country level   government type thing about it as well, but it's also  

[00:48:29] Juan Granados:

AI controlled or AI becomes the government. I don't know. All that as well. Well, the final thoughts. The final thought, but it wasn't so much a final thought. It was going to be like the final   thought around this is if you had to point blank, though, ask and be like, you   know, what's going to be more what's what do you think was the probability of like there being the Christian God or a Islamic God or   a type of Buddha or something else.   I would actually say if I had to put my money on it, I think AI will be the God.   Okay. Versus all the other ones. So you might be like, what the hell? We've just been talking about like, yeah, but I is not a God and whatnot.  

But,   I'll I'll attach it with, simulation theory   in that if   let's just fast forward   fifteen years, let's just hope not good years amount.   They, like, very recently,   a couple couple of months ago, Google kind of released this thing where you could create a almost living world where you go in and look at first person view and you can walk around and the world self generates based on where you are and what sort of prompts you put. And you can walk through a world that has, like, you can paint the wall, turn around, come back, and it's sort of the same painting that you're gonna do. K. This is more AR. Right? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, sorry. That's like   not even AR. Metaverse. It's well, not even metaverse. Yeah. I guess I like it.  

It. It's using   some of its AI   bits and bobs to create all this. Okay. So it was like, fast forward fifteen years and it's it's partially AI. Here, I'm talking more like   the technology that's encompassing all of this because because, you know, with AI and I think most often people think text, but it's multimodal now. Right? It's videos, it's photos,   it's text. And,   I know anthropics,   I'm pretty sure it's anthropics,   Claude, one, where one of the latest examples was it can create a website. And again, when you think about a website or something that you're utilizing it, it's like, oh, imagine like a replica.   You you're typing a prompt to create all the all the code. Cool. And you deploy it and you use it. This one's slightly different where it's like it's not even doing any of that. It's just when you click the button,   it will just generate   on the fly what it needs to based on all the coding and whatnot on the algorithms. And then you just get something and then, oh, I need to do the it just recreates it all as well. So you don't even have to have preemptively built it. It's just doing it as it goes.  

And I think Peter Diamandos was recently kinda saying, like, your role needs to become is it'll be on the main pixels. Like, it'll just be on the main everything because it'll just generate it on the main at the point that you click it and at such a speed that it might as well just be happening, like, at the same time.   But fifteen years in the future, if we start all that technology,   Madden starts creating   might as well be completely real worlds where you're just running whatever, a sim like an Earth. And you like imagine again Sims, but just like full blown earth and you're just like full simulation where they're just running, doing their world and whatnot.   If we hit that point, I could get behind the simulation theory of like, well, okay, if we've built something that's doing that now and   this system that's interacting might as well be real,   then I   would hazard a guess that that is not too different than from us ourselves   being in a simulator world created by some sort of technology AI and whatnot. And at that point I'd go, then you that might as well be a bonafide god in that particular sense. So not the god in the GPT that we're using or the Venice in that   there is some fundamental data layer in the universe that we exist in that might have become from a simulation. Because if we've built one, then shit, what's the probability that that's already happened and that's what we're in today? So, you know, we're not I guess it's a stretch to say, like, AI is gone. I guess I'd be like, not the AI or the technology that we're seeing, but the technology that we might create.  

It's not too much of a stretch to go that might might well be, you know, the simulation that we will as well pertain to and that being okay, cool. Well, then that's the god in this particular system. It's whatever the hell is build this   simulation that we live in. I can get behind that. Okay. Yeah. I am. I get behind that. My mind's blown. For me, I think  

[00:52:35] Kyrin Down:

I   I don't expect   it to become a,   let's   say, full on religion, like   Buddhism,   for example, men, you know, hundreds of millions of adherents,   I think to get to that level, it would need to be more integrated   than   we see presently just   texting it or chatting to it via phone.   Don't think is enough feel like it would need to really be   attached to you know,   a glasses sort of thing where it's got the microphones here. You can read at the same time and it's just always on you and always you're always interacting with it.   And even that maybe not enough. And it needs to be like the brain interface of you've actually got a chip   in your head which   allows you to access things   so that you're   not having to use   a physical device.  

I've been tempted to go to just a AI meetup   in Brisbane.  

[00:53:36] Juan Granados:

Just They do though? I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. That would be cool. Go to the various types of what they are because I'm sure there's some highly technical ones that have been going on for ages. I'm sure that I would throw it. I'm I'm sure we don't have anyone listening to this that's in relation to this. So like, but I'll throw it out there. Honestly, if you are in Brisbane and you are building a company around AI, I've often thought I'd be ready to invest   in companies like real small startups   that are doing it in the Australia base. I would be I'd get myself along on that for sure.  

So if anyone is listening to this, that would be like the most niche of probabilities that you are. But if you are, reach out to us, I would be interested in that conversation. All right. Hold on.  

[00:54:16] Kyrin Down:

There's, why is Australia  

[00:54:18] Juan Granados:

based? Yes. In particular? Why? Why is Australia? Oh, well, just because I think I'd like it to be local enough that I can talk to those particular individuals. Sure. Sure. Well,  

[00:54:26] Kyrin Down:

yeah, you probably need to go to the meetups as well then. But while I was thinking about that. Yep.   Yeah, I'd like to go to some of them and see if there's any   religious type   experiences that people claim to have had or are exhibiting at these things.   Now, I've   done zero absolutely zero research. So what I'm imagining I'm going to find if I start looking into this is   there'll be some like really hardcore tech ones where people have been, you know, in AI before it was cool.   That would be kind of more hard to join because I imagine they just like filter out people and like,   like it's just a kind of like the Bitcoin groups, like the   the OG Bitcoin group here. There's one which just never really runs and they've been like the ones in it for the longest.  

There's the kind of recent ish as in like 2020   and there are some of them have been in it for, you know,   five, five to ten ish years   and they're more welcoming,   but it's still also   kind of closed down. And then there's the complete like super reason. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone like, oh my God, this is like you type in crypto and that's the first thing that pops up. So   so I imagine there's variations of that as well. Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine.  

[00:55:45] Juan Granados:

Yeah, look, again, if you've got any thoughts around that, I don't know if there's any comments that have come through on the on the tube. I don't see any of that. I'm just wondering if Peter was actually talking about the  

[00:55:54] Kyrin Down:

audio that I do live podcast audio,   which there is a possibility. I thought   it was nice, but I'll bring that up and just have a little listen because   that could be what he was talking about. If,   if things are are sounding not so good. Said it ended ten minutes ago and  

[00:56:13] Juan Granados:

interestingly  

[00:56:16] Kyrin Down:

sounds pretty good here as well. So maybe maybe it was your   your technology, Peter, maybe AI  

[00:56:22] Juan Granados:

trying to block you from hearing the truth. That's right. The gods Yeah. Yeah. The gods above us slowing you down. Yeah.   Yep. Look. AI is a god. Do I truly believe that AI is god right now? No. Could I see it becoming yeah. I could see it had if a certain circumstances   has happened. But again Yeah. That's like that's like also me saying if, like, Zeus just walked out right now and entered my house and was like, hey, I'm Zeus. Yep. That'll be that'll be pretty convincing. I'd be like, shit. I went too high on the mushrooms. Like, this that's what happens.   Yep. The Immortal Alliance, again, if you've got a topic or an idea or a thought, send it through. If you wanna support us, you can do so by the boostgrams, me immortals,   immortalspodcasts.com   forward slash support if you wanna help us out as well. We recently went over   15,000   watched, not even listened, just watched on the immortals book reviews. I think we went past that on   the immortals   normal show as well a little while back.  

I saw as well something. What was it? It was something like   it was on the videos as well that we we,   because we were posting more, which is just particularly clips, but it was like we hit new highs in terms of views that we hadn't done for, like, whatever in the whole time that we existed. So, again, people are supporting out there by watching again Yeah. Commenting, sharing. I guess what we care more now for the moment again is   interactions,   helping us out from a community perspective, going into the Discord channel as well.   I'll be getting out more interviews as well over the next couple of months, so that'll be good fun. That'll be exciting. Yeah. Again, we continue on The Immortal Lens. Again, if you've got a topic or an idea, let us know.  

But we might leave it there for everyone. So whoever tuned in live, again, Sunday 9AM is our usual time to go live It is. Here from Brissy. So we'll leave it there. Me and mortal lights, be well wherever you are in the world. Treat the AI kindly just in case it becomes God.