Mere Mortals Conversations

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I don't understand Californians!

In Episode #482 of 'Musings' Juan & I discuss: the transactional undertone in interactions in Los Angeles (possibly influenced by Hollywood culture), the art of small talk and how it can be improved, Juan's natural inclination towards confrontation and how he navigates small talk in professional settings, appreciating small talk for its own sake and a look ahead to our upcoming travels.

Many thanks to The Late Bloomer Actor for the support this week!

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:03:02) Experiences in Los Angeles and Minnesota
(00:13:12) Conversation for Conversation's Sake
(00:17:19) Small Talk in Professional Settings
(00:22:20) Personal Preferences and Small Talk
(00:28:39) Location and Context in Small Talk
(00:29:56) Boostagram Lounge
(00:32:29) Handling Conflict and Conversations
(00:40:23) Knowing When to Let Go in Conversations
(00:44:48) Improving Conversational Skills
(00:47:46) Travel Plans and Conversational Preparations
(00:51:01) Upcoming Podcast Schedule and Wrap-Up

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[00:00:07] Kyrin Down:

Welcome Mere Mortalites   to another episode of the mere mortals musings. Although today will be a kind of like meanderings   type one is it's like a mix one especially as we're getting close to the end of our   I would say phase here.   Yep.   Getting getting very close to being in the travel phase. You've got Kyrin here on this side. You have Juan on the other side on the 05/04/2025  

[00:00:34] Juan Granados:

early in those who celebrate it May be with you. Oh yeah. Yeah. Classic classic one. And,  

[00:00:40] Kyrin Down:

today we're gonna be talking about chitchatting small talk in particular, but a little bit about just conversations and conversational styles in general.   I'd say the   the reason I had this in my notes was I   was talking with with Cole, Cole McCormick from America Plus. Correct. And   when I was in   California, in particular, I noticed there was a very big   conversational   gap almost between me and the Californians or the   Los Angeles   in particular, I had to say Californians.   Yeah. And,   and so I was like, Oh, yeah, this might be worth talking about the art of small talking. Juan's pretty good at it. And I've got a couple of little notes here. So you've been in Los Angeles before I have to did you feel any gap between   talking with people in Los Angeles? And   I don't know, any weird feelings and conversation wise any weird conversations there? No.  



[00:01:37] Juan Granados:

Like, there was no Yeah, there was no issues. However, however, I will point out that when I was in Los Angeles last time, so I've been three times. And the last time that I was there, I didn't actually speak to too many people, which was which was actually interesting, because I ended up spending   most of that last trip. I'm just walking on my own all over the place. If I recall correctly, you were in a hotel. Correct. I was in Hollywood, Roosevelt, which is in Hollywood.   And   the massive amount of time that I was there, I ended up chilling out of the pool, basically on my own, just reading, having a drink, relaxing.   I walked from the up the Hollywood Hills to the Hollywood Sign and from there all the way to Santa Monica, which was   16 or 17 kilometers. That's a bit of work. And most of the time I was   headphones in, like listening to a podcast, all music. So   I definitely wasn't there to talk to people. That wasn't the primary goal. I think when that particular travel in any case I was heading up to Minnesota,   I was just there in LA to relax basically.  

So maximum for me relax meant   not talking to people as much. So for whatever you may think about me, me immortalized.   Relaxing for me isn't   overtly talking unless it's   like a very easy   passionate topic or people that I want to talk to. It was just brand new people.   It's not a relaxing thing. It's an active thing that I need to pursue. I could be okay at it, but not that I wanted to do it. But I did get into some small talk at the   hotel itself. I think I've told that story either privately or some people, but eventually I've talked to a few ladies that were there as well at the particular time, which was quite it was funny. It wasn't even like Yeah. Well, I know what you ain't thinking. That's a story. But just very funny conversations when we were there.   And I believe some people near the beach and then some people   at a marketplace   where they were selling,   it was they were selling shirts and the price tags were printed on Pokemon cards. Not expensive Pokemon cards, but just like random Pokemon cards. And I talked to a couple of people there. And honestly, I think that might have been the only time I talked to humans in Los Angeles. Okay.  



[00:03:41] Kyrin Down:

How about Minnesota?  

[00:03:43] Juan Granados:

Do you had a bit more time there? Well, Minnesota was even easy I would say. It's not comparable because Minnesota,   I don't know if it still held to the title. Minnesota Nice or something. You're correct. It's got the Minnesota Nice. Everyone was really truly nice. Like it was a very,   very easy place to have nice easy small conversations from the people who were attending the conference,   to just everyone else who like, you know, you order a pizza or something else and everyone was really amicable and nice and nice to chat to. So,   I would a % that's not   my ability to small talk. That was they were easy. I didn't talk to many people in in in Los Angeles. Yeah. Yeah, my experiences was rather different. So I spent a lot of time on at Venice Beach, especially by the  

[00:04:26] Kyrin Down:

kind of like, pull up bars there. And so I met   a fair few people there. And it was, you know, I had a friend there. So I was kind of in with a group,   in essence, because David was, you know, introducing me to people.   And we're all doing this kind of shared activity.   But I also met a fair few people at V con as well. And most of them were from the Los Angeles area. Sure.   But I did get a mix of getting in to interact with I guess, like foreigners coming in.   So particularly I'm thinking like a bunch of English people and Australians.  

[00:05:01] Juan Granados:

Mix.  

[00:05:03] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. And   what I really noticed in particular,   in particular at Venice Beach was   where I would have, you know,   multi   minutes,   if not longer, you know, like half an hour conversations with people while working out, obviously a little bit broken up was   I didn't,   there was someone always just a bit off, I always felt like,   if I was, you know, bringing up just random topics, conversation,   as things to talk about.   Either they weren't getting me or I wasn't getting them. And I feel it was there was this underlying   tension that,   you know, for me small talk was just to be like, you know, pass the time, maybe chat with someone at the you know, you're doing a shared thing. So,   you know, might as well talk to them if you're in the same area. So no point being like,   you know, hidden off in an area or like, you know, literally standing right next to people and not at least saying hello.  



[00:06:00] Juan Granados:

Don't I have I feel like I have a different view. We'll get on to that shortly.  

[00:06:05] Kyrin Down:

And   the   feeling I got overall was   they were looking for something out of the conversation   and perhaps different than I was looking out for it. You know, I was looking out for   just   complete pleasantries,   conversations for conversations sake. I'm not really a fan of doing something for its own sake, but this is one of the times where I would be. And   I   what Cole was saying, because he lives in LA, was   the   there's usually a kind of like   a hidden thing behind the scenes a little bit, which is, if you're chatting with someone, it's about their connections, who do they know? Perhaps how can they be useful to you?   Are you   a   and useful in terms   of your actual like money? Like a want to do for them? Yeah. And   if I had to guess, I'd say it's just due to the like, the Hollywood industry around there. And this was similar vibes actually of what I got from when I was doing promotional work here in Australia. And I was mixing with some people who were trying to be actors and things like that. And it was a similar vibe where I just didn't,   I always felt like there was   an agenda   that they had, and that I wasn't really part of aware and wasn't really able to interact with them in that world of, you know, extract Max extracting value from a person perhaps is if I had to say if in a cynical way, no, they would probably  

[00:07:41] Juan Granados:

view it in a different way. I guess I don't think so. I don't think I've got an interesting story that happened recently. Yeah, hit me up. So here in Brisbane, there's a space called felons.   It's a big space where you can have some drinks. The house is Miss Wharf is actually the overall thing, but there's a space called felons. I was there and a Californian approached me. Now he mistook me for somebody else. He'd be talking to a Brazilian couple, but he'd be talking to a Brazilian lady previously. And he thought you were a Brazilian lady. He thought I was the guy because he only saw him far away and they also had a kid. So he mistook me because I was playing around with my daughter. But he came over and was He said something and I was like, yeah, he asked me like, oh, so do, you know, do you think it's quite   a good price to live here? Which I was like, well,   we'd open a map, but okay, cool. I was like, I don't know.  

And I kind of started engaging with him in a small combo. And that's where he paused. I was like, wait a minute. Didn't I just talk to you? And I was like, no, man. Oh, man. So sorry. And he was from LA, originally, California. He was older guy like 50 years old.   Became uber successful in Hollywood,   went up the ranks was quite high up. He was telling me a few people and stuff that he worked with. What's the guy from Entourage? Like the, if you ever watch Entourage, the guy. And they know one guy and that's Ari Shafir. Yep. So he worked with Ari, and a few other people. I don't know if he was the manager or something like agent or something related to it, but it was very, very close to that space.   But   as he kind of like went up the ranks and whatnot and then you get to a point where he was like, I'm sick of dealing with California. Well, he was like, he was saying I'm sick of dealing with building Hollywood. We were just one transactional conversations and it's all about. So he left,   LA. He was like, fuck this. I've already got enough money. I want to do whatever. Went to Brazil lived there for twenty five years.  

Found like a partner married and now he travels the world basically wherever he goes. So long story short, man in Brisbane. So but   what was interesting one so it was a really good like   small little conversation about just kind of whatever. He wasn't coming at it from a real transactional space. I guess he wanted to know in the end, what the lifestyle cost was in Brisbane for his own personal benefits. But he himself called out that at least Hollywood but I would like probably   say like maybe California or LA in general, he was over the transactional   value or conversations and that was twenty something years ago. So you know, I can only assume it has continued to be that way maybe gotten worse, maybe the same but   so whatever 2,000 today sounds like a kind of shitty situation from a interaction perspective. So yeah I validated that from a conversation that sort of came up reasons like they even they themselves I think some of them go now if this I don't want to do this. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing with that was the people I was chatting with weren't trying to be actors and things like that. They were just,  

[00:10:26] Kyrin Down:

you know, I don't know what a lot of them did for jobs.   Random stuff if they're working out the at the Cal State bars are true Wednesday at just after midday.   And   but you do I can see how like the influence of that happens one little scenario. Well, I mean,   God, that that time there even though it was just like less than a week, I think in that location was just this bonkers man, you know, so so people   have fight where a gun was drawn. I saw   a lady come over cold calling   and was like going up to people and being like, oh, and there was this one guy there who was like, you know, fit fit.   If I had to describe it, I'd say like, imagine like a fit semi balding Canadian guy.  

Like Scandinavian guy. So like long blonde hair, but you know, it was just starting to come in at the,   at the temples, I guess.   But he had like the long blonde hair fit masculine jawline and stuff. And she came up was like, oh, you know, would you be interested in like joining our agency or something or for doing   some, you know, promotional work or appearing in advertisement or something is is like, no, not really.   But if that kind of thing is happening and there was other people going around trying to,   I guess, like get social content for some bag or hat type thing. And so they were like giving this hat to people and being like, Yo, what do you think and then camera in the face. So it was a very,   I can see why things would get weird if,   you know, imagine if you were just in your everyday life, every time you went to the supermarket, there was people in your face trying   to sell you stuff or get you to do things. We had the elections here yesterday.  

You have to run through the barrage of people trying to give you shit vote, vote one, blah, blah, blah, be to do it. And, you know, full on   just just   what I would say is like,   yeah, those are transactional things as well. People are trying to get you to vote for the other people. So, you know, even if you get into like, I should have tried to small talk to some of those people and see how long they would have chatted with me. Because every time every second that they're chatting with me, there's other people walking past who they're not getting the message to perhaps so, you know, that's, that's one of the times where I'm like, okay.   There's there's a   transactional nature to this conversation, which I figure   is not what I'm looking for. It's not what I'm personally looking for. I'm just looking to talk for conversations like, you know,   But there are there are dangers to   doing too much of the conversation for conversation sake.  

Agree.   I've, I'd say I've experienced this a little bit over the past couple of months,   even perhaps years, which was,   I used to be very transactional, I would say, in my   kind of approach   to conversation. So I'm thinking back to like,   high school, maybe getting more into university, where   if someone started up a random conversation with me, just to talk, I'd kind of be like,   what do you want? What are you doing? That's like the default? Yeah, they don't want anything. And that would make put me on edge a little bit.   And this was also a time period where, you know, I was really struggling with interacting with women in particular.  

And one of the things   that I learned about in the book, Daybang book review on the minimalist book reviews was the art of rambling. And   Ruchin there was saying like, a lot of conversational skills are you, especially when you're just getting off the ground. And if,   let's say,   you're wanting to chat with a girl, you know, it's not going to be great if you just come in straight, like, Hey, how are you? Where do you live? What's your age? You know? What's your name? Rambling seems like it might be a better approach. It's it's a it's a way of showing that you actually have people skills and funnily enough, like,   it's people skills for people skills sake, almost.  

And,   yeah, what I was noticing, like, if I ever did talk to girls, it would be a, it would feel like an interview in. Okay.  

[00:14:49] Juan Granados:

Yep.  

[00:14:50] Kyrin Down:

Not a back and forth conversation. So   I started I actually practice this for a while, which he recommended, which was every time you like driving somewhere,   pick a random topic,   random thing, and just talk about that for as long as you can just to yourself and your car. And so, you know, I'd say like, I'd pick like,   in my mind's eye, a pair of white socks, then the situation would be like,   okay, you're in a department store, and there's a girl, you know, near the sock aisle or whatever, or, you know, even in your local Woolworths. And   there's a pair of white socks that   start if you were to talk to her about white socks, and only white socks,   what would you come up with? Like, how could you talk about white socks? Sure. And see how long you could do that for? And   it's really hard, man. You'd be like, Oh, what is there to talk about white socks, but you can take it in all sorts of places. Like, you know, talk about the price or I don't like getting white socks, because I find like I get myself dirty all the time because I'm playing with the dog or things like this. And it's about opening up avenues for conversations   to branch out to different places.  

But what I've found recently is I probably gotten too good at   talking   nonsense, not nonsensically, but without a purpose,   and just allowing conversations to drift wherever.   And there's also an art to having a conversation that leads to a certain place. So   that guy,   you know, he,   he might have, if he perhaps didn't realize that you weren't the   if you were   just a stranger that he'd never met before, and he still wanted to know about like living in Brisbane, he he probably would have talked about random stuff first for a little bit to like ease into that and then find ways to to talk about that. So,   yeah, talk, you know, talking with girls non,   non purposefully for a bit,   You'll find if you did want to get something out of this, which would be like, oh, potential for a date, getting to know them better, things like that. Well, you probably need to actually have a little bit of like, edge to your conversation.  

Yeah, correct. Yeah. So I've,   I've lived on both sides of the small talk   spectrum spectrum. Yeah, the spectrum.   And   I'm probably like now trying to bring it back to where it's like, oh, you know, small talk, but also have like, in the back of my mind. This is would be a nice place to lead the conversation landed to say,   when you   because you   what I'd say is like, you've always been really good at small talk. I remember   during COVID   you small talk with people   you're working with and you were their boss was the kind of situation and you'd be asking about their weekend about their kids,   Very small talk things. And I would remember hearing you and just be like,   this is so shallow, like, once we ask all this random stuff, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a shit about any like, I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a shit about these people because could be wrong.  

Did you have to develop those skills? Why do you do that?   In a work context? Because you could just be like, Hey, how are you? And then get straight into the work of the day? Yeah. Again, I think it always stemmed from like, the more and more I recognize, I think all of that  

[00:18:12] Juan Granados:

I reckon I picked up when   sort of first came to Australia and just watching people   that I know it then exactly that it was that like this in terms of how that people want to they want to hear themselves talk they don't want to hear you talk That's one of the things where you're in a conversation most people in fact like most, they're just,   you come out of a conversation if you talked a lot and the other person didn't, but you feel like you were listened to and heard,   they feel like oh wow that was a great conversation, Right? That's that's generally most human beings, me and mortal lines. We're all like that. That's fine.   Don't know where I picked up that whether it was young and I like read it or listen to it. I think more from observing. And so I've just always done that pretty by default.  

I think a lot of the times when I ask those sort of questions,   partly,   and then let's be honest, partly for me, it's informational   transactional stuff, because I can leverage that, right? It's, it's a very,   when someone that I say I would use to work with and I would understand that oh, they haven't gone to the gym in two months and they do this and do that. Hardly they get sorted away somewhere squeal away my mind. I can take them in a fight. You know,   it's it's sometimes it'll be around you know, I'll only ask them to do a couple of extra hours, right? And I might leverage and understand where they sit in terms of the gym and whatnot to be able to help them out and support them to do that. So transactionally,   you could be good.  

But I think another aspect of it is   a lot of   times, which say I'll get to a little bit later as to where I sit right now, but   often in like a small talk situation if I'm having small talk,   I'll   push it towards   them having a lot more of the communication   and less about   me sharing anything. In fact, what probably most me more like saying know about me and I do this very, very, very well, very, very easily is I can very easily   talk with a lot of people and ask them a lot of questions and seek out some stuff and I give away nothing. Like, I'll give away basically no information. So I would really, really guess that   in a lot of the small talks that I've ever had, I will only ever share the sliver of information I want to share. Okay. You would be,   you would have to be a master of conversations with me to get out something that you wouldn't want to get out of me. Like that, that is a very hard ask. Whereas I think I'm very,   it's just my default nature to ask questions and inquire and open up to share some things. So that just happened by nature with me. That's fine. I never thought about that. And I think   years ago I think small talk for me was   great. I would do it in a lot of context. Sometimes it would be transactional in nature and you know trying to get some benefits to come out of it. A lot of the times if I'm   in locations or just talking to people it would just be for fun. Like I do enjoy small talk when I especially when I can hold the power in the conversation and by that I mean just hold control, drive it wherever I want. That's usually the case I enjoy it. I wouldn't   like example, I wouldn't really necessarily like to do some small talking if I was in   a conference about,   you know, kitchen utensils and stuff like that. Why? It's a couple of things when it comes to small talk. There's no real passion of that on my side. Yeah, that makes me feel like I don't know what level of values or ethics and whatnot. Like   you don't know what that mix is. So I'm not even going to want to engage into that aspect. I think that's the other thing with small talk. So today, what I was going to get to was, I think in today's world,   I will only small talk   in   two, two key places. I think I'd say one is when I feel like I want to that's when again, it could be out and about it could be you know, the bartender it could be the waiter it could be   someone while I'm waiting for something to arrive or something to come.  

If I choose to, I will small talk like at that moment just for my own pure enjoyment of the of the talk.   The other one from a store and I'll leave any transactional stuff and whatnot. The other one would be the case of someone has come up to me like that guy that came up to me and it fell on some whatnot and he'll come and engage   and   I will feel like   there's a part of me that wants to engage and that's more talk or satisfy whatever it is that they're asking about. So those I would I would say we two broad aspects where I'd say small talk would come.   However,   one of old would probably have done more of this or or more conversations if you'd come up to me or engage more. Where you'll think now again phase of life things are changing.  

My time is,   more precious I guess in all the things I've got to do. I would say I'm very very anti small talk nowadays.   So I, to your point of question when you're saying like you know you're at the calisthenics bar in LA or you're somewhere else doing that.   I now would absolutely favor not speaking to absolutely anyone unless there was a very good reason for that to come up.   I guess the other way I'd say it is more talk for me now has to align with either someone I care about or something I'm passionate about. And if it's not on that, I kind of don't give a shit. Yeah. And like this might sound rude, right? Me more or less. But it's reality, if you come up to me on the street and it's not like it's not about the podcast and it's not about something   interesting.  

If you come up to me   like it kind of it's weirded the other way around because girls don't approach guys, right? It doesn't really happen in that same way. But if a guy approached me at the like I wouldn't say the gym, just something randomly and they kind of said like, oh, hey, man.   Your car,   it's got this and it's really cool. Can you tell me about it?   I'm going to lean into kind of being like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I'm kind of just gonna go,   yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm not, I'm not gonna allow like a conversation   to to continue for   the continuation's   sake. But if it is aligned to some sort of passion, so   at the gym I've had,   I'll say once a month on average. I think once a month someone comes up to me and has a conversation about something.  

When that I'll have that little small conversation. I won't, but I won't,   maybe in the way that currently for some of your stuff is now,   you would maybe ask some probing questions or maybe ask some conversations so that it continues on.   Mine is   enough to answer some questions and enough for me to go cool thanks bye type of deal as opposed to cool thanks let's continue it and and build something out.   Let's just just say where people are at so if you know if you're listening to this and you go oh well how do you build more friends or how do you build more connections? I don't want that. I don't want that new model. Like there is I've got no time for even existing friends as it is as people I'm having to make choice of like, okay, there's not chatting to these people. I just don't have the time   may come at a later time, but it just where you sit with priorities and where you want to spend your energy and stuff like that. Yeah, I'd say I'm probably at the stage where  

[00:24:50] Kyrin Down:

I don't need to practice   it as I used to. So   I'm probably still, you know, still takes me a bit to warm up, I guess not.   I wouldn't ever call myself charming. But out of the box.   I'll still be like a little bit slow. But after, you know, chat with people for maybe two days in a row, then then I can kind of ease into small talk really quickly. And I'm thinking, you know,   at the grocery checkout when you're you're that person's   the cashier is   doing all your stuff through and you've got maybe like five minutes while they're bagging and stuff and you know, you can chat at the same time.   I   don't need to do that. But for me, it's still like, I'll still I'll still do this. But it's probably about half the time now half I'll be like, you should say something car and just like, get get the groove on things like this. Oh, I get that. Yeah, what I've noticed for myself particularly is the gym now, because I spent so much time there.  

And, you know, I've been there for like, seven, eight months now.   Over that time, it's   getting to the point where I'm like, Oh, I probably know a bit too many people here now.  

[00:26:02] Juan Granados:

Because they'll come up here ask you something interesting about that. Because so kind of go there's two total fusions here in Brisbane.  

[00:26:08] Kyrin Down:

There's multiple  

[00:26:09] Juan Granados:

more like five. Yeah. Oh, damn. One in your I know there is one in your back one in Maccray. One  

[00:26:15] Kyrin Down:

in the   Brisbane Lions.   If no,   a rugby club, there's a Brisbane Lions one. It takes a couple of other places. Yeah. One that's opened up in Chermside. So I think that's about 5%. So I was gonna say was  

[00:26:28] Juan Granados:

one thing.   You tell me about this. So one, we went to have coffee yesterday near the total fusion,   in New Farm.   Yes, New Farm. And   from what I've heard from people who go to that total fusion and seeing it literally there.   So many people date each other or go on dates from Total Fusion. Like I'm Oh really? We saw three   like couples go on dates that very much looked like it was first date and it just from the gym like that obviously just worked out. I'm going down for a date basically. Yeah. I heard this from a couple of people who go to the Total Fusion, you found one as well. Like it's basically just a dating pool slash gym. Okay. Do you feel like,   the, the, this extra small talk that you've been doing has supported that in doing it in supported that in doing it in total fusion that you're at   neutral,  

[00:27:14] Kyrin Down:

I think in a way, I this where I'd actually say the location   and context is very   plays a large part portion of this   location wise for   the Morningside 1.   It's more families,   you know, the type of suburbs. Yeah, it's steep in the suburbs. So look, there are   many, many schoolchildren who come there. I see them walking in and their   their clothes   straight from school   there. So you get like, I would say,   a younger demographic   of like   17 through to   23,   where they might be at university, but still living at home.   They're obviously in school,   things like that.  

And I think there's a   big portion of kind of the   working   single working   class or   single out from home   cohort.   Because then   the other aspect you then get are people there who all have partners, and they're like, in the age or age range, I guess I'm looking for, which is, you know, mid 20s to late 20s, something like that.   And they're all taken. And so like, that's because they bought a house out there, things like this. So   no, you don't get that aspect at   the Morningside 1. Yeah, maybe maybe there's a valuable place where   context wise where you spend your small talk. Yeah, whatever benefit. Yeah, I think so as well. You know, if you're going around to, you know, old people's homes to chat, that's probably like a really good place to practice. Yeah, not a good place. It's gonna pick up probably unless unless you're into   that. But that'd be a good place to practice.  

Because they just have tons of time. So that'd be   what man small talk would be amazing for them. They'd love it.   But if you try and do that on a busy street somewhere, or in a, you know, office context,   people might not give it to like, I gotta work man. Like, I can't chat with you for half an hour about random shit. So yeah, it's it's very dependent on that. And I've heard   also the location can be very different as well.   The Morningside 1 is great for small talk, I think,   for small talk sake. Yep.   Because it's like real wide open area, you can see everywhere across the gym. So you're gonna see people all the time.   And things like this. I've heard the new farm walking around, it's a lot smaller, there's multiple different levels.  

So   that I think would make it a little bit harder in some respects. But then there's also   more of a wellness area where probably that'll happen. So yeah, yeah, lots of different things going on. We'll do a little bit of a boost to gram land and then maybe just a little bit of a free for all at the end. Yep. I think I'll get it. Let's kind of go do the boost command. I'm going to step out. Yeah. Once busy, he's fighting fires today. Whole, whole time he's been here has been fighting fires. So,   the boost to ground lounge, for those who don't know, is the section where you can help support the mere mortals   in many different ways.  

Time, talent and treasure.   So I'm just gonna look in here I don't remember seeing any coming in. Oh, no,   I lie, I lie.   We've got the late bloomer actor who was streaming some sets in   as well as I believe I see him was also streaming some sets in towards the mere mortals   this this last week. So and that was via true fans and that was for the month ago. So thank you very much for that.   Mister late bloomer actor, very much appreciated.   If you want to do that, meremortalspodcast.com/support   or meremortalspodcast.com/support   should   hopefully take you to the same place soon. I was messing around with the DNS servers. And   I can still see that the old website still coming up. Yeah. So it was gonna stay up for a month, and then it would convert into like some Wix branded one or something. And it would still be there. But I'm trying to change the service. So it will direct us to the new one.  



[00:31:15] Juan Granados:

Right? I'm not sure I've done it correctly. Or if it takes all this stuff takes a little bit change to that. And if you change it at the Wix side, or if you just on the side,  

[00:31:22] Kyrin Down:

I changed the actual   domain is now in Namecheap   under my account. And so I have access to the   the name servers, I think they're called. So I have done that, whether it will actually come through immediately or soon or should be five to two should be very quick. Yeah, very quick.   Yeah. Well,   no, because transferring it from Wix to the other one took more than a week. So I guess whole whole bunch of things. The only thing I know was with the with the website or like the DNS,  

[00:31:53] Juan Granados:

spacing is a DNS and then there's like, good to realign the ports as well. Like all of the little. Yeah. Yeah. That's a little bit of chill out. I think those are called name servers. Anyway,  

[00:32:03] Kyrin Down:

meremortalspodcast.com/support   and there's some areas there. Grab modern podcasting app and you can help support us out financially.   This is where we call out people who have done that.   This isn't about small talk now. This is just going into random things. But   I had yes,   there's something happened yesterday to me, which was just so   typical of many things in my life. Here we go. Okay. It doesn't seem so good. Doesn't sound good. No, it wasn't. It wasn't pleasant experience. So I was in Bulimba was coming out of the Woolworths and basically like it's an underground car park and you're coming out onto a street. So it's a driveway into there. And it's   fairly wide and spacious.  

Because, you know, they need for delivery trucks to be able to get in and things like that. And   I'll put my hand up, I did something not   technically wrong, but ethically,   maybe a little bit wrong, which was I was coming out. And, you know, I saw this guy crossing with two kids. And they were crossing this this area. And I'm like, if I just   zoom up here a little bit, I'll get there in front of them. And there's just something about him and the way that he was walking that almost instantly irked me.   And so I pulled up and then he the jackass that he is he like makes the step in front of the car is like, there's a pedestrian crossing mate. You've got, you know, like, you should be following the rules something. And I had my window down. And, you know, and I'm like,   I don't think it is. He's like, look, the signs right there, blah, blah, blah. I didn't want to deal with it. And I hate conflict.  



[00:33:35] Juan Granados:

Hate it. Kinda hate it. So I just I mean, I think just most humans hate conflict.  

[00:33:39] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. But I'm certainly I would say even more   than than the normal person.   So I just pull out and I'm like, fucking idiot, like, and then it's like, I'm angry at myself, because, you know, he's right. And then I'm angry at   him for like, putting me in that situation. I'm angry at myself putting myself in that situation. Because, yeah, you should just let him cross in front of the little kids.   And,   you know,   kind of like,   stew in my mind about that for the ride home five ten minutes, whatever,   get home. And then I'm like, you know, trying to talk myself out of it. This is kind of cathartic in a way as well just talking about it.   And it would have been nice to just leave it there. I couldn't leave it there. No.  

I ended up going to Google Mac and looking.   And sure enough, I was right. It's not a pedestrian crossing. The sign is for pedestrian crossing further down. And so   it re pisses me off. Yeah, re cases it because now I'm like that I'm right. Fuck it. And if I you know, if only I'd been a bit more assertive.   I was in the right, that sort of thing. Now, look, what would have actually happened if I had stopped the car and argued with him about it?   You know, he's in front of his kids, he's not gonna back down, he's not gonna admit he's wrong. So it would have just been a needless conflict where even though I was right,   Yeah, I wouldn't have come out feeling like I was right. It was like, you know, the vengeance or the justice of the situation resolving in my favor.  

The best thing was to leave because the dude's obviously a fucking jackass feel sorry for his kids, you got a shit father.   But that   there's so many emblematic things to me that the conflict avoidance, the stewing on it, the rechecking, even though I didn't need to   the being right, I was actually right. You know, all of these things just kind of   it's not related to small talk, but it's certainly about like conversations   and the type of conversations you can have. Yeah, I feel like would,   I'm trying to think of a situation where   that could have, I could have come out of that feeling good.  

And I can't imagine anything   happening in there. I was gonna feel shit no matter what.  

[00:35:52] Juan Granados:

Yeah, it's an interesting concept.   Something   probably according to it. So   I read I think I'm reading it somewhere. And it was like, if you if you go into a conversation,   yeah, I mean, more like a confrontation or debate or another. And if your aim is to win, then you kind of already lost.   You've kind of already lost at that whatever it was happening on the outside. And I guess that is very true in that even in that example you gave.   I can only put myself in that position if Canada happened.   My default   and thinking with that in mind is   actually just going Yep, cool, sure. And letting him go   is kind of like the better outcome   where yes, he could stew and they are, yep, might have done it wrong or looks like they they were correct. Actually, it looks like I was correct. I think the the fundamental of that, if you lean in with the expectation that you're going to wean or you're going to be right about it,   then that itself is the cause for the problem that's going to arise. Now,   this is absolutely like this is fundamental to most humans. It just happens all the time.  

Like I would say, I engage in lots of conversations where I know I'm gonna be right, let's just say, and there's gonna be a few percent in there that I'm gonna be wrong and not in a % of them do I then go like, yeah, probably shouldn't let it go. There's a few there that you're like,   you kind of like lean into it. But I think in general, the more   us as humans can engage in those small talk or conversations or engagements as general, and you avoid going into it with   if it starts getting heated, or you want to win, you have to be right. And   some in business terms, you're triangulating to the truth. In other terms, you're just, you know, seeking to   find out or learn or whatever it may be, I guess you steal or steer away from Yeah, well,   the negative connotation that if you're wrong, I guess, which I guess happens   to generally immodals is you   kind of want to be right, or you don't want to be seen like, Oh, you got this wrong, or you were in the wrong.  



[00:37:57] Kyrin Down:

There's a meme, challenging as a meme, which is kind of like, my toxic trait is thinking I can   change people's minds via,   you know, data and reasoning.  

[00:38:08] Juan Granados:

But yeah, I mean, yes, humans are not rational beings. We're emotional beings.   That's   always apparent, especially when things are tough, and it's like a hard conversation or people agitated.   Show them whatever data you want, or be as rational as possible ain't gonna help everyone's gonna be emotional. And it gives us how much in those circumstances   you care about   being right. Like take it in a   positive way if you're having a great interaction with a with a girl, right? And you know she says something along the lines of yeah you know what the the capital of Australia Sydney is like really really cool. Yeah, yeah. And you start being like it's actually Canberra. Yeah.   Yeah, yeah but I think it's Sydney because like but it's Canberra right. Part of it in this in that couple more conversation is yeah but she's wrong. You want to show her that's right.  

In the end, who's benefiting? Like what what's the benefit there of proving that you are correct? And let's make it a, you could do a more complex scenario, right? Like if someone says like, well, you know, what's one plus one? It's two. But what happens if it's contextual, right? What if it's different? Go back to it turns out. I think the one that people say like, you know, if one plus one, you know, if it's one chewing gum plus one chewing gum and you chew it in your mouth, how much chewing gums do you have? Yeah. What about one big one? One big one. One equal to equal to? Yeah. Yeah. So there's all these, you know, there's this thing about trying to prove someone that it's wrong. But again, if it's in the if it's in the con if that's if that's the outcome,   then that's the outcome that you go down the path and that might create some negative things at the back of it. But if your   outcome is to   have the small chat,   have the small conversations, maybe come away positively, whatever relationship,   sometimes it's actually not beneficial for them to be like, you know, for them to be right and just   object to it again. Okay, cool. Now you can believe that's fine. Like I've got Yeah, I'd  

[00:39:55] Kyrin Down:

say a mark of someone's good conversational skills is being able to leave things behind, you know, you want to you thought you think of the funny joke, and you're trying to think of like, oh, how can I fit this into the conversation, and it's already moved on? So it's like,   the best thing there, it's not trying to bring it back. So you can then say the joke fits, it's to, yeah, let it go. Someone's   got, you know, very different opinion   regarding politics regarding,   you know, sex.   Another example.   When I was out at   this,   did I maybe I was mentioning beforehand,   go from the gym went out to a birthday party, you know, we're getting late into the night, there was four of us left.  

Most of us had had drinks, and the topic of   gender   neutral or gender   came up. And some guy was talking about how his sister wasn't sure. And so then he, you know,   sounded pretty funny. It sounded like he paraded a bunch of guys and girls in front of him of her like a lineup and was like, which one of these do you find attractive? And then apparently, she picked guys. So he's like, Yeah, so therefore she's just straight. Only like that.   That got us to the topic of, you know,   kids,   you know, boy saying that he's a girl girl saying he's boy, and this is   01:30AM   five drinks deep in a random   loud bar in   in   Newstead.  

And   I declined to have any part of that conversation. Like there's nothing in here that's going to be said that is   fruitful,   productive, you could see the tempers   and like the   kind of conflict confrontation starting to rise heat up. Yeah. And   that was that was one where I'm like, Yeah, you know, the best conversational  

[00:41:42] Juan Granados:

tactic here is to not participate  

[00:41:44] Kyrin Down:

at all. Yeah.   So yeah, I think there's the large portion of life was all conversational skills, which is about   knowing when not to say the things or to just let  

[00:41:55] Juan Granados:

it just, yeah, it's been like, Ah, yeah, you know what, that's, that's fine. Yeah. I think it's worth knowing who like you as an individual, you as an immortal. What's the what do you lean in towards? Like, what's your what's your nature? What's the natural thing for you to do? And,   because sometimes like I know for me, I find it fun to be confrontational. That's very easy. I was down in Canberra just recently and one of the things I was there for from a work perspective was a very,   very hard conversation I had to be having a couple of people around certain ways that were acting and whatnot. And you might think, oh okay it's gonna be like you know you gotta get like high five for the motherfucker. I was like excited. I was like let's go. Okay, I want this to get like heavy and shouting and get hot. That's easy because that shit's like so easy where I think   for me, it's the non confrontational. It's the more   I'll say I guess when you when I'm trying to,   maneuver when people are trying to be emotional   or woe is me   There's generally again, this is who I am in more of the old different. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck sometimes when you're saying like, this thing is hard and someone tells me, oh, I didn't sleep well. Like, shut up. Like, man, you guys most of the people who come in and track with me in this way. I'm like, you have no clue. You have no clue what not, I'm not even saying me. I'm like, you have no clue the type of things humans have to go through. So I'm like, shut the fuck up. This is just dumb shit. So when after small talk of that,   that's where I feel like, oh man, I feel like get   good, go get better at that. Because I'm very hard just equally as I'm hard on myself, I am even harder on other people. And   most humans I would say in my mind, I'm like man they're not meeting any expectations.  

But this is coming from me in a   default like being confrontational, default thinking I can just destroy people, this sort of shit.   So my weakness is that small talk. But the other small talk where it's more confrontational and all of that and then I go cool that's in my alley. So I think you need to lean into   for me I was in a work conversation or something else where I need to be, heavy like that. I don't need to prep, I don't need to do anything, I just go, go do it natural self.   But if I have to have a more gentle conversation or I have to be gentler on other people, even myself,   then I need to be more prepped. Right there, I might need to listen to music and get myself into a more joyful mood or something else where I'm, I know it's the right time. If I'm sleep deprived and whatever else and then I've got to have those small talks. Yeah. Yeah. I know I need to be like, hey, like I need it like I can't have that conversation like basically separate yourself. Yeah. And all all mere mortals are going to be different, right? But I'm the exact opposite. You like the opposite, right? Gentle is easy. Yeah. Yeah.  

Yeah. So you gotta you gotta know what what you lean into.   I I don't think there'd be any human out there   that can default or lean into both or like all at the same time. I think you have your strengths and the others are just things that you don't quite get or quite understand and that's totally fine. So when you have those small talks wherever they may be just be aware sometimes you're going to be I'm sure you're going to be default good at some stuff and the ones you're not just be more ready when they come. And you can't work on this. This is one thing I've learned, you know, if you want to get better at small talk, if you want to get not even just small talk, but  

[00:45:07] Kyrin Down:

better at conversations,   whatever it is that you're lacking in, there is   ways to do it. And practice is the main thing. But you know, practice with  

[00:45:17] Juan Granados:

the purpose or the thought of like, how can I practice this better? How can I Oh, yeah, for sure? I'll give you an example. How can I direct a conversation? I'll give you an indirect is not direct training, but like indirect that I feel like would eventually   create something like this. I'm generally loud. I can be generally boisterous.   If I was to think like, oh, how would I help my daughter be more confident or, you know, voice her,   you know, herself and as she grows up older. And I go, yes, I could imagine, like, these skills and training that I might be able to do. But one of the default things I do, again, kind of like unconsciously, but then she also acts out is both of us are really loud in public,   like really, really loud and sometimes you hear the commentary about like oh you're out here or be a little bit quiet.  

We are, we scream, like sing scream at like the shops and whatnot so you know she'll do something like twinkle twinkle little stars, I'll join in with her and then she'll get louder and argue that man well the middle people are like staring at us we don't give a right? So I think you can be indirect and all that sort of stuff especially when the when you're younger. Okay do it.   But I think as you get older and you start getting   more rationality as opposed to just the default emotion, you have more rational be like okay probably shouldn't be screaming in these locations and doing certain things. Then you have to find other   practical ways of applying the just conversation, the speaking.  

And again, the more you do it, the better you get at it. And I do   it again. So I do   twelve, fourteen meetings every day, like and sometimes on Saturday, sometimes on Sundays, right? And I'm having conversations all the time, I would say, you know,   day to day, I mean, take it all the way back, even just just on the work, remove all the personal stuff, but just in the work.   You know, it's   been fifteen years of probably four hours at least every day of talking, of conversations, of wanting to achieve something or just small talk in general. So it's just the also the reps like just purely, yeah, practice will do the right things. I I was always doing   that so often it just becomes ingrained and you start figuring out how do you small talk, how do other people small talk and start to see that different cultural perspective around, oh, okay, small talk and Japan's different to California than it is South American than it is wherever else, which is fun. And that is fun seeing those differences of of small talk.  

Especially sometimes I would say if you know a different language because that trends   trends, like transitions completely as well. What the small talk and the conversation is? Yeah, good segue because  

[00:47:49] Kyrin Down:

I'll be traveling in a week and a half.   One will be a couple of weeks after that. And   one of the things I did purposely   was to book a party hostel   in London.   Two reasons for this one.   Everyone just seems to say like, London, so fucking dreary.   It's rainy all the time. It's mopey and things like this. What do you do there? Or you drink? Is that the only thing? And,   like, yeah, I was chatting with a guy today. And he was the other day, and he was saying like, Yeah, if you get out to the countryside, it's nice. But   I'm just not gonna do that. Like, don't have that much time there.  

And the other one was like, Yeah, you know, I want to start off the trip, like, in a kind of like,   exciting.   Yeah, for sure. Type of mood.   But yeah, you know, I'll be hanging out with German people. I'll be hanging out with like,   Peruvian   girl, Colombians,   you know, all the people   at your wedding.   Old friend from ages ago, but I haven't seen   seven plus years,   all these sorts of things are going to be   Yeah, exciting, interesting. And it's going to require my my tip top conversational skills. So I have actually been   purposely chatting more   in these last two weeks to go at the gym   to kind of prep myself to go in   a little bit more like that. So yeah, that'd be interesting. Yep. One more week   of the normal   scheduled podcasts.  



[00:49:18] Juan Granados:

I What monthly goals and   another   musings next weekend?   Monthly fuck.  

[00:49:25] Kyrin Down:

I mean, our monthly goals, we're just doing them earlier and earlier.   Yeah. But this isn't a point.  

[00:49:30] Juan Granados:

Well, honestly, I think we just touched on them very briefly. I think we do it. We'll do a very short one of monthly goals next week. And then we'll do the Still worthwhile? Yeah, I think it's still worthwhile. Okay.   So we'll do that. And then yeah, Karim will do the monthly goals. I feel it'll be like monthly  

[00:49:46] Kyrin Down:

goals is a strong word monthly.   Not ambition monthly   happenstances.  

[00:49:54] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Yeah. It's probably like. Yeah. Because it's going to be very low. So we're going to be very low. They don't get too excited about what's gonna  

[00:50:01] Kyrin Down:

come from the islands. So yeah, so next weekend.   And then  

[00:50:04] Juan Granados:

what date do you leave again?  

[00:50:07] Kyrin Down:

We leave on the twenty sixth, the twenty sixth. So   I   if you want to do a live one on sometime between the twenty second to twenty sixth,   I might be able to do that as well. I'll be in I'll be in   Hamburg and in a hostel, so I might be able to find a location there where we could do that. So perhaps perhaps one then and then   there's going to be a big gap once Juan's traveling, we're not going to meet up until   around his wedding time. So around mid June, and we'll do one then   live together,   perhaps with Joseph as well, probably with Joseph.   And then   it's going to be really hard   for the rest of June, early July. When do you get back?  



[00:50:49] Juan Granados:

June?  

[00:50:50] Kyrin Down:

Or July? July? Yeah. So maybe in July, we'll be able to have some more live ones again. Yeah, where I'll be in Europe and mine will be here. But   expect  

[00:50:59] Juan Granados:

some pretty big gaps coming up in the schedule. There will be a lot pre recorded stuff though. So there'll be quite a few pre recorded stuff that will come out throughout time. So even on the book review side,   I've got   five recorded now. Okay. They've got to edit and just schedule basically.   So it'll be that. And then on the   the immortal side of things, there'll be three that I want to record. So I'll record recording them, and then releasing them basically on the time that we'll be away. So   yeah, they won't be live. It will probably be well, not might be like a week or two gap in there in the whole time that we'll be away.   But there'll be some stuff that comes out from the from the mere mortals in any case throughout the time. Cool. I'll be that. I think we'll leave it there. I don't think there's any comments on the YouTube, by the way. There was quite a few people live, though. Those are the last check. Okay. Nice. Yeah. One thing that has been encouraging just  

[00:51:50] Kyrin Down:

from from our side, I guess, is   we don't really look at statistics much. But   even just this last month or two, the audio download numbers, for example, have been   pretty decent considering we haven't put out as much things. So   it's very, very much appreciated everyone tuning in joining in. We do see you there.   And,   yeah, thanks for participating in the in the mere mortals.   Oh, yeah, I'll be   finishing up the mere Morpheus season one.   Not tomorrow, but the next Monday. Okay, cool. Got everything you wanted out of it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been good. It's been good. So like these last couple episodes have haven't been about   have kind of been   half Morpheus half just general AI things that I wanted to talk about.  

Yeah, yeah, it's it. It forced me to do the deep dive that I wanted to do.  

[00:52:39] Juan Granados:

And so it kind of felt like it had a purpose. Yeah, you're like, you're getting something out of it. In any case, no matter what. Correct. So yeah. Yeah.  

[00:52:46] Kyrin Down:

Pretty good. Would have been nice if it kind of like kicked off a little bit more, but that's alright. You know,  

[00:52:51] Juan Granados:

Can't aim   for that. Let me know. I think if you get the outcome that you want from your side, then Yeah. If it comes, it's like awesome. If it doesn't, it's like, oh, yeah. I'm  

[00:53:00] Kyrin Down:

satisfied.  

[00:53:00] Juan Granados:

Very satisfied. Alright. The Immortal Alliance will leave it there. Thank you very much for joining wherever you are in world. Again, support, in all of the various ways. Way subscribe. You know, comment. Tell the treasure. Reach out to the social medias. All those sorts of things. Correct. For now, the Immortal Lights. One out. Toot. Bye.   Good.