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What does the world of vibration, energy & frequencies have to teach us?

In episode #460 'Musings', we dive into the intriguing world of positive thinking and its various interpretations. We start by reflecting on my recent dive into figures such as Dyer Days, Nero Knowledge & Joe Dispenza. The discussion touches on the concept of a positive mindset, its benefits, and potential pitfalls. We explore how positive thinking can sometimes overlook reality, leading to unrealistic expectations. The conversation highlights the fine line between genuine positivity and the potential for exploitation in the self-help industry. We also discuss the influence of media and algorithms on our perception of positivity and negativity.

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[00:00:07] Juan Granados:

Welcome back, Mere Mortalites to another edition of musings.  

[00:00:11] Kyrin Down:

We are live here. You've got Juan on the side. And your Kyrin here on the other side. We are in brissy  

[00:00:17] Juan Granados:

20th   October   9:12 AM. A little bit late. If you're listening to his life once again, we're here. You know, we're gonna fill your ears with some good information today. We're gonna talk about well, I don't know exactly how this episode is gonna unravel. I've got a couple of notes and thoughts around it, but it came off the back of   the last week's conversation   around the world, the ship. The world. There was some stuff around John Demartini   or the That was the positive mindset or quantum mindset.   How way you want to term it? Interestingly enough, I was listening to Joe Rogan talking to Shane something the guy who found advice   and advice media   platforms and all that sort of stuff. And they kind of talked for a couple of minutes about quantum thoughts and ideas and positive thinking and a few things and that often happens, weirdly enough, when I think it's just more you just focus on it when   something you're about to discuss or talk about and then it sort of pops up as I   whatever you're listening to it, you'll just focus in on a bit more. So   I thought today, yeah, let's discuss about   the   the thoughts of what positive   thinking the goods   the bads what we think about it here at job mortal do we use it is it all   useful at all would we call it effective   philosophy   in some ways where's the bullshit? We have to like call out the bullshit. I've got a bit of a definition.  



[00:01:42] Kyrin Down:

Okay, good note it down if I just I don't know if I want to do that. No, I didn't.  

[00:01:46] Juan Granados:

So there's a there's a slight caveat at the end, which I guess   you'll see straight away, I guess where I'm coming from at it. I think some people don't. They're positive thinking   a mindset that embraces possibility and growth,   seeing challenges as opportunities,   or   transformation.   Then the last bit without   denying   reality.   That's my little that's my little addition, which I think I think sometimes people   use positives thinking and kind of forget the the reality   aspect of it too, which I think is where I start to see some some issues with   it. Thoughts? What do you think about that?  



[00:02:25] Kyrin Down:

Ah,   it's,   it's vague enough that you can get away with a lot. And that was kind of   what I saw I did some research for this everyone had I dived into the depth so that you don't have to now I didn't go too far deep. I   listened to   so   first of all, why are we subscribed to Dire Days? Do you know who Dire Days is? Dire days on YouTube? Yes. On which on which profile? I think it's   the book reviews   profile. Let me look. But it could be the other one. I can't I can't remember for sure. Anyway, I remember seeing this pop up a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, Well, I definitely didn't subscribe to this dude. So I'm putting it on you. What color is the individual? He's very healthy, dark.  

[00:03:09] Juan Granados:

Yeah, I think this is the guy that I   followed because he's part of the School of Mastership   group, which and I believe he followed us back for that as well. Okay. That's that's what I assume. So  

[00:03:21] Kyrin Down:

I assumed it was a personal connection. So I'd saw I'd I'd seen him pop up and I'm like, okay, well, why is this person on our subscribed list?   And   I referenced him a couple of weeks ago as well. So I just clicked on his channel. I was like, what is this? What is this? Yep. What is this stuff?   And   I also went into another dude called Nero Knowledge   Knowledge.   And   some Joe Dispenza.  

[00:03:46] Juan Granados:

You've heard of him before as well. The names are familiar, but I can't listen to the what he talks about. He's like,  

[00:03:52] Kyrin Down:

Aubrey Marcus,   adjacent. Okay, sort of thing. So if you go into the Aubrey Marcus type of world, you're gonna find him it's kind of fun in link people via   other people. Yeah. So Nero knowledge,   who is   I've written a description of here. He is a black English guy with a do rag wife beater and wears sunnies indoors.   That's that's the description. Oh, and and a whiteboard, which he spends onetenth of his video cleaning. He writes on it. And then he takes   sweet ass time playing in the swipe up. Anyway, I dived into a couple of these dudes die days as well. He's all about vibration and frequency.   It's neuro knowledge guys.  

A little bit less on the energy side of things, but still about very   other words positivity,   energy, vibrations,  

[00:04:41] Juan Granados:

frequency, more like a conglomerate.  

[00:04:43] Kyrin Down:

Yep. There's a lot of that coming on. Joe Dispenza.   Yeah, he's talks a lot about energy, which eventually leads to focus of the heart center is love. Connect your consciousness with every entity and being   and he's got a couple of miracle stories and stuff like that in there as well.   So I dived into these guys,   and yeah, I don't want to particularly   stay on   any one of them   per se because I'm not sure that'll be but it's   if you want to know   in general like there's going to be some generalizations here   if you want a specific example just jump to one of these guys or to   your your your best friend, Doctor. John, John Demartini. Yeah.  

And check out any of the videos and stuff. And you'll be like, okay, I can kind of see what what current is talking about here. So   I don't I don't know where to start. I have like a couple of like   dangers,   things I'll give them credit for and as as well as a   some some advice that they had, which I thought wasn't half bad, as well as   a link to a topic that I particularly enjoy and how closely it was linked to that. So any of those fuck? Yeah. Well, I think before I think all of those good diving points. Actually, did you research any one in particular? Did you have any?  

[00:06:02] Juan Granados:

Not not   any in particular,   but I could bring up I think lots of   examples. There is one though that I'll leave towards the end to I guess demonstrate   maybe the idea of some of those positive thinking I guess in a   without avoiding reality type of conversation,   but maybe   set at a high level set in a summary of what we think against positive thinking, just just as a broadly from like the definition I sort of gave there before as well.   I think,   look, if you go about your day to day,   is it going to be better to be positively thinking about the day as opposed to negatively thinking? Yes. Yeah. I think so. Does it mean that you have to put a spin of   positivity   to even things that are beyond your control.  

At least I would say not necessarily. So what do I mean by that? And this is where   I've heard   last name, we have had Anthony on the podcast and a lot of the things that he himself does through his company business is around, hey, this is gonna be the best thing. And it's the best thing that's happened. Everything that's happening is really, really good for you and positive and be grateful and gratitude and all sorts of stuff. And I think that's a positive attitude. Maybe a little bit beyond what I would say is   a   needed positive attitude, as in maybe you're starting to face some of the realities of the world that sometimes suffering and bad things do occur.  

Other examples, which I may be aligned to more. So I'm trying to give a given examples trying to give my view of positive thinking Victor Franco.   So if you read message for meaning, which I have many, many times now, I didn't read it on my birthday this year. That's the first time I skipped in like 4 years. I think I know the book well enough now, all times in that he himself   puts a lot of positive attitude into how he was dealing with what was going on   during   and when he was you know, in the camps,   he wasn't   he wasn't   looking at it   as oh no it's all sunshine and rainbows and fuck it like this is amazing and wonderful but it was more a okay well this is what's happening   and this is the reality   and I'm going to think about my wife or I'm going to think of things positive or approach it in the best intent. I think that level of positive thinking,   wonderful. I think that that's a that's a great thing to think because otherwise you're just going to be realistic and negative about the world and approach things in terrible ways. But I don't think you should approach   a positive mindset where you then negate any   possibility or expectations   of bad things occurring.  

Clear example   of what I mean by this one, I would say, you know, you shouldn't do this, or at least you're gonna end up in some pain or even worse suffering. 2 days ago, we transition our daughter to a big girl bed. I thought you're gonna say to a man or a boy.   This is like the man. This is   quick. So   we've got her a big girl bed. Okay.   Why? Just claim starting to climb out of cut. So just before 18 months,   this little squeeze is now being transitioned into a man and  

[00:09:20] Kyrin Down:

a big boy. You did say big boy. Big boy. Big boy. Big boy. Big boy.  

[00:09:24] Juan Granados:

Yesterday.   This is a joyful occasion. This is a great transition. This is gonna be all this. If   you approach it that way, which some of these individuals do or if you think about it like, well, whatever quantum field energy is all positive and whatever.   The reality, at least in my mind, when I look at positive thinking is   you have to have that, but as I said at the end, but with a bot with the the reality and expectation setting. I think that's sometimes what really gets missed in some of those things, which I guess what   I feel like part of that you'll bring up, which is part of the things we agree with it, part of the things we don't see it, where if you're in that particular scenario, I had gone everything's gonna go really well to my partner, like, oh, this is gonna go fantastic, like, you're overjoyed, let's celebrate, like, she's going through. No you know what I was like I was actually like oh look this is great this is a great transition moment   and I'm fully expecting that she's gonna wake up 3 times and we're gonna have the most terrible sleep tonight and it's gonna you know it's a new thing it's a new change whatnot   end result   she slept pretty well okay and so I came out of it like oh this is awesome this is really good but I face reality of what it could be obviously with past experience and from seeing what other you know kids go through in that transition so it's like you know, that to me I go, that's what I would see as a good positive mindset in that. Yes.  

We have an outlook that's positive and have a generous view to the world without lying to yourself for the realities that very easily come to fruition. Because if they do, awesome, you expect them. If they don't, then even better. Kind of looking more that stoic way   of looking at the world and what what the worst things that could happen and then being kind of surprised by it. So that was kind of like high level what I would say with positive thinking. Okay.  

[00:11:19] Kyrin Down:

Well, my view, what I've noticed when I was diving through these videos was,   and I've never really given   this genre much credit for this before was,   oh, you know, surprise the positivity aspect of it. But it's more like the way that they were going about it. And I think one difference,   what I would say from their videos is   I never get the feeling that they   say that you should have it in all situations   or   or even that   it should be applied to a   specific   one off event like that, because typically,   these videos are about   how to get more money, for example, and and a lot of this or how to how to be healthier,   or how can you   influence   your environment or yourself   to get   kind of broad sweeping   better general changes   rather than   my daughter's going to sleep tonight. Is it going to be good or bad?  

And   this is where I'm just I was going through it and I'm like, you know what? They,   they don't really dwell on the negative things. So   they might say something like,   you're   you're poor and you're struggling or something like that, but they don't dwell on the your poor and struggling.   They never say it as if it's   a thing that's like inherent to you. And this is why it is very positive in the sense like, they are always talking about how you can change how you can be better.   The advice on how you actually go about doing that. Yeah, a bit questionable.   But some of it's good. I'll talk about some of the good parts I saw recently.  



[00:13:01] Juan Granados:

But   maybe just some just says here if I'm if I'm hearing correctly.   It's seeing in seeing coming   was that we're talking about positive thinking. And I think we're going to be talking about some of the individuals in the positive thinking space.   And the things that start to move away from what we'd consider probably actually good.   But their intent is good. I think you can't call out that their intent is all that bad   unless it's attached to monetary, which definitely can be and other   influences. So if it's that, fantastic. But when they're speaking about   certain things that are just generally positive in nature, let's just say, I have a feeling that the intent is good. Sometimes the execution of how you do that is a bit or a bit off. I I've recently,  

[00:13:48] Kyrin Down:

you know, I'd heard it for a bit of people saying, man, I'm just getting tons of negative shit in my feed and   whatever feed they were talking about and whether it be Instagram, Twitter,   YouTube,   all the social media sort of stuff, anything that's kind of algorithmic And,   and I don't really watch or listen to news. So   take this with a grain of salt. Maybe that's why I haven't really noticed it because I don't really go to news sites. But   I was just scrolling through some stuff or typing a couple like keywords into YouTube to seem like, what's going to pop up? And yeah, sure enough, when I went to, you know, diary of a CEO, for example, and you see the thumbnail, it's always,   you know,   a couple of words, and then one word bolded in a different color. And that word is always like, hate,   they   power,   just, it's kind of you look at it, and it's like,  

[00:14:41] Juan Granados:

like, I need to click on this video because something bad is going to happen. And maybe I can find out how to not make that bad thing happen or something like that. Quickly shout out to Steven from Tyra CEO. I've been feeling his thumbnails ideas exactly for all of my ones as well. Oh, yeah. But not bolding the bad stuff. It's bolding the the interesting stuff. That's good. I took that artistic flair from so Steven. So  

[00:15:04] Kyrin Down:

I was just going through a lot of this. I'm like, yeah, you know what? There is a lot of just straight up negative click baity stuff.   Is this what sells? Yeah, it's it's what get clicks. It's and things like that.   And I felt that these guys didn't   conform to that as much   that have some random stuff   like, dire days, there was one where he's like,   you need to lie to be a good person or something like that. And or, you know, to be interesting. Yeah. And then and then he'd in it is kind of clickbait because then you get into it. And he's like, yeah, you'll you need a lie to yourself to   write to this. So in essence, you know, trick yourself into   making good things happen or whatever.  

So   when I compare this to a lot of the other   type of not genres or niches, you'll find I wrote some of these down preppers, macro financial   doom is political debates, a lot of religious stuff.   Like Jordan Peterson or whatever.   Man, there's a lot of just   negativity   in the way they start off the thumbnails, the expressions,   everything just screams at you like, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. So   yeah. Apart from the you know, I think there is some grifting of seeing their congregation   and dollar signs.   I don't want to   and that's where it can get into like the snake oils   snake   oil salesman, the type sort of stuff where   they're promising,   hey, you know, with this positivity,   you can cure cancer and you can do this. That's where it goes a bit too far. A little bit of a slippery slope. But   in general, I, I wasn't as,   repelled as I thought I would be after watching a lot of these videos. Okay. Would I go back again?  

Not particularly, but   yeah, it was, it was,   I find my my views are shifting on a couple of things recently,   especially on stuff which I always used to kind of treat with disdain, such as   hedge funds. I used to think they were like just   predatory and whatnot. But after reading a book or 2, I'm like,   no, I think that they're taking, you know, they're taking advantage of governments   interfering and just making really bad decisions   and then they're just taking advantage of that. And it is the free market, so they should be   able to that's kind of one of my views is that you should be the free market is generally better than not.  

And so yeah, this is one of those ones where I kind of came in to it going,   I'm not sure about these people, but and I'm still   largely   not a fan of everything they do. But it's not as bad as I thought it was. Okay. So let's let's let's talk about them the bad of positive things. Let's let's maybe do some boost your hands first. Okay. Okay. Before we get into the bat before  

[00:17:56] Juan Granados:

clickbait on you folks,  

[00:17:58] Kyrin Down:

let me pull it up. So for those who are wondering, a boostogram is where you can send some support here into the mere models because we are a value for value podcast. We do all of this free   upfront for you. You can tune in anytime, anywhere, any anyhow that you want.   And we're never going to put ads or sponsorships on this, but we do just ask that you return some value to us in some form sharing the show with some of your time with someone talent gives some topics or interesting things you find and then also treasure which is where you can do this via a modern podcasting app and send in some support and with a message attached. That's correct. I believe we had one for this week. We had none. Had none. None. None to this month. Oh, yeah. The one you might have seen was Peter's.   That was last week. Correct.  

Sad puppy indeed. Sad puppy indeed. He's. All right, people. We we need we need some support coming in. We need some sats  

[00:18:54] Juan Granados:

to alleviate the soul. Maybe it's the Bitcoin price that's going up. Again, I've I've had a which is yeah. This is picking on up. Yeah. That's been an interesting thing to to watch the rise of last couple of days.   Look. We'll get into the into when we're talking about a positive thing, we're talking about the bad things and good things. I didn't  

[00:19:11] Kyrin Down:

manifest any.  

[00:19:13] Juan Granados:

That's what it would've been.   Give me a big calling.   That's bullshit. My little sort of bullshit things. But   I think for me personally the more and more and I guess probably the space that I'm hanging around and listening into   I have a feeling   in the next   two and a half years let's just say I'm going and this is not see and this is the difference between the manifestation   and the positive thinking because there's a clear difference between   an idea which I guess would be the intent that they put and the execution to   like   such different things because as Karen very well knows about me I've probably had 500 business ideas in my time and probably executed on 3. Right? And and one worked out okay or something about that thing. So, you know, there's a very difference between the idea and the hope versus the execution. But   I can see talking about the value that we provide to people in the valley for valley model. I do see us probably   grading something like a   group, a more connected group. I've got ideas on on how to do it. In fact, I could tell you right now and riff on how we exactly do it. I I just don't have any time to do that and I don't know the   the differentiation that we would do from the podcast perspective. But again, I go, look, I really believe in the model of value for value to be able to be sharing in that way in terms of the model of funding.  

I think there's another format that we could be doing to deliver some value to people and still use the same model for them to send through in that manner   of making it more   more specific, more precise like, hey, we're gonna do this extra bid which is a little bit more personal, a little bit more descriptive. Maybe we'll spend even more time on it,   but we're gonna need some specific monetary, like, support for that. And we're still gonna maybe support, you know, you can do it in this particular model that we use now or in a traditional fiat model. I think we'll end up doing that. Like, is it gonna be soon? Oh, yeah. I have no time.   Noise of like a big thing in my mind right now. But I can see how we could do that. Right?  

Yes. Right now, the model you can support us with the Valley for Battle model of sending through a boostgram or streaming stats. Yeah. Look,  

[00:21:13] Kyrin Down:

I've also had less time than you know, maybe I'll get into this in the next couple of months or something. But   for example, with fountain, you can connect up Nosta and which is a   social media platform.   Not really. It's a it's a protocol, but you can put social media type apps on top of them.   And   I know people are using it more.   It's not as sort of the fountain homepage. So fountains, one of those podcasting apps you can use to support us. And it's very different than it used to be, you know, I I used to   be I used to be a big dog on Fountains lawn. So I followed a lot of people. Oh, you've followed me back at a time. So I think when I would boost out stuff, it would actually go to a lot of people whether they that actually,   they ever took any initiative on   that came to the podcast or anything. I think a couple of people might have just just from that.  

But now I think if I did that,   it's not connecting in the way that it was previously.   And there's a whole other world of noster stuff over here and a lot of Bitcoin people are interested in it. And I just   I haven't got hadn't hadn't haven't had time to dive into it properly.   But I know there's   things progressing there such as you can still put music into   your your podcast,   put a value time split to the musician. When people are streaming, they'll, they'll get the boosts or the streaming payments or how much you want to give them. And I know there is people getting on board and via that and   finding out like, oh shit, I put my music up here and now I'm suddenly getting Bitcoin or some sats because people are boosting and streaming it. And it was from this podcast and it's like, holy shit.  

I think that is still going to be the future and the TikToks and these things of the world will   probably have to implement something like that because just the way the system is at the moment, it's it's not working. But yeah, it's going to be years. It's gonna be a while. So it'll be isn't until there's like a   an app or a thing that just gets everything every little bit right.  

[00:23:15] Juan Granados:

And you'll get there. Look, I feel like positive thinking positive. I think we'll get there. I think it'll get there. But I'm being realistic. It'll be a while. So once again, we'll bubble, there'll be something that we'll we'll do. We've talked about it before on   different types of content and maybe being more specific. Again, if you've got ideas, if you want to tell us what you want us to do as well, tell us it would be, we'd be happy to take on those information. But again,   core to the stuff that we do, no ads,   no, we're not being paid by anyone to do a particular sponsor thing or whatever else.  

We don't know that we would I think Chris will have called us out that I think he had it was I think it was a year prior someone came to him and offered the podcast   more like $1,000,000   or more to have this guy who was Saudi to talk about oil and a particular thing and, you know, just Chris was saying, like, I mean, that smelled   like it would be a terrible thing to do. So he didn't proceed to do it even for the even just to not even take the money just to do it on its own. Legally, if you do that in the States, you have to say that they paid you that they paid you to actually you're legally  

[00:24:22] Kyrin Down:

you're legally meant to say that say that what the vast bulk of people don't, from what I could tell whether that's because they   don't know   the legality of or get around or no and get around it or find another way of getting around it. Sure.   But yeah, okay. Interesting stuff. And stuff.  

[00:24:42] Juan Granados:

I will positive thinking.   Let's let's go into the the bad stuff, like the ugly stuff. Like, why again, when when when someone says positive thinking mentality   and mindset and idea,   when does it get ugly? From what you've seen, I could list many, many things of why it gets bad or what the examples I've seen badly.   Why? Why did you see that you weren't like, that's that still pushes me away? This scammy, whatever. Yeah, well, it wasn't it wasn't particularly actionable. So  

[00:25:11] Kyrin Down:

if you're poor, you need some money,   you want to increase your wealth or something.   You could spend a lot of time   essentially just meditating   on how to do that. And not that much time actually   going out   and hustling or, or working harder, for example. So there was it felt   it. Yeah, the probably the skew would be   90%   of what they were saying is think about it harder rather than and 10% do do something.   Or, you know, if you think harder 90 percent you'll then   find the opportunity,   the opportunity you'll notice when the opportunities   arise for you to then take advantage of it.  

Rather than I think, getting out there and creating those opportunities for yourself. So   they're not really saying   put in   100 new job applications   and one of them might get back to you or 10 of them might get back to you and you might get 2 interviews and you might get one of those jobs. I don't hear a lot of that   going on   in terms of advice. Yeah. So so I feel it's, yeah, lacks a bit of that actual action   that   me personally, I think is needed more.   But have I spent   10 hours trying to manifest things I haven't. So   who knows? Yeah, maybe that's maybe  

[00:26:33] Juan Granados:

this does work. Here's one way I'm gonna call it. I'm going to go up on a limb and I'm gonna say this is ugly,   but it could be because I am such an imbecile and we are all art that we don't understand it yet. But the one aspect that I find continuously whenever I see things like this will pop up from a John D Martini or whoever   is   when relatively   new concepts start to appear in the world   and so then it gets piggybacked into the positive thinking sphere, let's just say   and it   attempts to get at all these things   and I'm like, I'm no genius and sometimes I'll see something and go, no, but that doesn't actually make sense from what you like, I'll I'll I've listened to things, I'll be watching things and I'll voice, I'll be like, this doesn't make sense. Like, this actually doesn't make sense.  

The the clearest ones that I can see, but again, I don't know if it's I'm dumb or it hasn't been proven or something, but where I see that the ugliness is   there'll be this positive thinking spiel or conversation and again, I I like the intent,   but then when it starts getting connected into   the quantum fields and the chemical valences and the space between atoms and the wavelengths of this and   a whole host of these ideas it's it's   Luke Belmar,   the crypto guy.   He he has this, like,   little   spiel somewhere. I remember that I I commented and got, like, massive amount of likes and comments back on it, but it was about because I'm, like, you know, think about money, you know like water and you know the river and the river has banks you know and the banks hold the money and and you're talking like and the flow of money so you have to just go fish something like that it's like Yeah. Fuck are you talking about? What are you actually like you you are correlating   language and words   not in a meaningful way though   at the surface value you're like oh he's making sense but then you look at it and like no that's just language right it's kind of similar in positive thinking because   with the quantum   side of things again I'm not excluding quantum   and I'll also happily   be like, you've been 10 years. This is all proven correct. I'll be like, awesome. These guys obviously were on the mark. I was not but often they'll go. Yep.  

Parts of this sound true. Okay. I'm gonna try to describe it the best way. There's a John Demartini and a few others do this in the positive thinking. Right? So on the improvement space, we'll go,   okay. We'll look back 5 years into the past, find a traumatic experience, something that you see negative or positive and you want to try and balance it out. Try to neutralize it, let's just say,   like neutralize the emotion of that. Why? Because the more you can do that, the more clear minded you can be. Someone threw in, I don't know who exactly it was, but if someone was like, yeah, if you do that, everything in your past and you'll be able to see into your future because everything's neutralized and was like, what? What are you saying? What does that mean? But again, then it starts going, well, yeah, because in the quantum space,   you know, you can have superposition   and things can be in the future and things can be in the past and you can't focus. So if you neutralize everything   then then technically you can see into the future as far as you can and see your world and you can create it and whatnot   and that's that's kind of going like   wait a minute like   pause. I was a turkey outside. Okay. I go   pause.  

Like quantum mechanics as far as I understand does have all of these attributes and properties.   Why   are you though adjoining that to all of a sudden that connecting to humans all of a sudden right like why is that sometimes they go you know if   does a monkey neutralize all the past experience like they don't they don't really consider negative positive so are they neutralized and they see the future   Right in the quantum mechanic realm. Like I kind of go like what do you what is going on? Where's the conversation here? And again this could be a thing of because,   in   when I met John D. Martini   there was a couple of things which,   all credit to him. He had been talking about   like 40 years ago in his own way, in his own way of like talking about it and there's journal articles that he was mentioning had just started to come out that were proving the stuff that he'd been talking about 40 years ago   And for that, I go, okay. I get it because, say, in the fitness space, there's a lot of stuff that if you train for 20, 30 years,   there's probably not journal articles about a particular thing, but maybe it'll come out eventually, but the practice is in front of the science that's behind it. I get that sort of stuff,   but I get the real   eek, I get the, this is some there's some real   bullshitting going on here when   it's starting to it might not just be quantum, it could be other things,   but it's always being leveraged for the sale or it's being leveraged to capture the eyeballs.  

That's what makes me go a little bit of okay.   Is this really about positive thinking or are you now just joining ai quantum mechanics   wavelength   equations   to try to come up with something that seems   real cool and exciting. You could go around now and it's not just John Ayrond. You could type in like quantum thinking or quantum empowering or something like that and you'll find   so many people, so many conferences,   so many of those. Right? It'll just be all over the place.   Quantum   isn't a necessarily well,   maybe it's a relatively new idea. It's been around in like, the scientific spaces for a while and by gravity, it's been around forever. So, again, if this is such a thing that's always existed,   why was it not discussed many, many years ago? I don't know. It just kind of it feels to me like, okay, this is bandwagon  

[00:31:57] Kyrin Down:

jump on to try to sell sell a little bit more of the correct intent that's behind the scenes. There's a bit of that. You know what the whole the whole space reminds me of? Mhmm. Actually reminds me of philosophy a lot. So if   you if you read the first 10% of most philosophy books,   there is actually some interesting things in there. They'll they'll have   some claims which I think are interesting, whether it's   emotional,   on personality,   on the actual world, sense data, what can we perceive, what can we not perceive, all this sort of stuff.   If you get 10% into it and then stopped   and you had the willpower to just stop there,   I think you'd actually get a lot of benefit from that. If I if I think of all the philosophy books I've read,   niche,   the Kierkegaard,   Derek Parfitts,  

[00:32:51] Juan Granados:

Australian guy,  

[00:32:53] Kyrin Down:

What's that? That's Australian David Chalmers or Peter Singer. Maybe you think Peter Singh was not he's   he's, Peter Singh is a little bit different. He's his is more much more readable.  

[00:33:04] Juan Granados:

In reading it just because he's saying these names I before I went to go see Doctor. John Demartini,   a founder of blogs and where someone commented, he commented, who was the greatest philosopher alive?   Yeah.  

[00:33:14] Kyrin Down:

Oh, man.   He's read what was it? 30,650   books studied sorry, he studied studied that many books,   as is claimed on his website.   If you read a lot of these things, another good one is   Descartes.   The 10 first 10 percent is great. You've learned some interesting things, a different perspective of you in the world.   And   it holds up into the current science and what we know about the world. So   that's great. You know, Descartes talking about,   what do I actually see the sense data could be demons could be an illusion, this could be a dream. The only thing I can be sure of is consciousness. And I believe that I think I think that is flawless logic.   Then you get into claims about God, and all sorts of other things after that, or he did. A lot of these people do the same.  

Who was it wasn't a carto, it was Spinoza.   Sorry, not Spinoza. I had his name written down just here before.   Dispenser dispenser, Joe dispenser.   99.9999   9%   of everything that we see is empty space. And there's only a tiny little bit of actual matter that is atoms.   True.   What is like the rest of the space composed of? Or what's mostly filling it and   what's actually   more tangible energy?   And he's like, okay,   so   if you focus your energy, you can change these things. And I'm like, I'm not sure,   you know, vibrating   or   manifesting your frequencies or some sort of shit like this is   actually   going to affect the energy down at the level of   the atom I'm not sure that's a you know I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. What  

[00:35:02] Juan Granados:

was the saying?   I've heard it from Chris Williams. I don't know if he created it or someone else could, but it was like when something's   factually true but objectively false or, you know, actionably false. So it's like that that that again that that's a clear example of like,   fuck are you saying where it's like, yes, it's mostly empty space,   but it doesn't apply to you in any considerable way.   Is there, but this is where I'm like in my current understanding. Maybe there is to be a change in some way. I think it's like the statistical nature of because it's so much   empty space between atoms and whatnot. There's actually statistical evidence   that you can put like right here. Yeah. I can just put my finger through the wall or through a table that can happen. In fact, it will happen given infinity. The other one as well is if you put an apple into a box   and you left that box there for infinity,   that apple would disintegrate and turn into every possible thing in the universe and then back into an apple. Yeah. Yeah. Left there for infinity.  

Yeah. That is factually true   objectively meaningless.   Who cares? That's kind of like the okay well   so that's the kind of equivalent when you know, someone's sort of saying, you know, if you focusing your energy and whatnot,   the problem is, it's true.   However, it takes infinity  

[00:36:21] Kyrin Down:

or close to infinity. The other thing with that so slightly tangent, but why do people never talk about entropy when it comes to these sort of things, which is   one of the fucking laws of the modem, right?   That things tend towards more disorder rather than order.   So why why are there claims that   if you had infinity that this would happen? Because I would have thought entropy would just destroy that every time like that argument. So anyway,   slight, slight tangent there.   A lot of similarities between philosophy. And it's actually   another thing that made me go kind of appreciative of this more. It's like, okay, well, look, I've still spent a whole bunch of time on useless books.  

We're talking about useless book before one's got a couple of useless got a couple of useless books. I'm gonna do I just have almost finished reading the Karma Sutra.   Pretty useless book.  

[00:37:14] Juan Granados:

And I'm still unsuccessful in bed.  

[00:37:16] Kyrin Down:

You're gonna be so surprised at what is actually in the Karma Sutra because you it was completely different than what I was expecting.   And   the   think more along the lines   of monks yoga. No, I think more along the lines of   monks getting   erections   bitten by caterpillars   rather than   actual sex positions. That's that's what you should be more thinking of.   That's   a throwback to like round episode 200. We're talking about that book was that book? I think that was a trippy tucker. Trippy tucker. The trippy tucker I think was that was that was when I was trying to read that.   Anyway.  

I've spent a lot of time on useless philosophy.   A lot of people have spent a   lot of time on what I would say is probably useless positivity and manifestation.   You know, I, is it a bad thing?   I don't know. Sure. I'd like to get a couple of those hours back. But   it taught me more about the world and let me understand okay, this is what philosophy is about. There's some good things I can take away from this and discard a lot of the useless stuff. And I think you could probably do the same with this. There's a lot of things which are   pretty useless in there. But   there's a couple of gems which you could take away and go yeah, this is I could actually apply this my real life and and could be helpful, especially just the straight up optimism that exudes out of all these people. They're not negative people. No, no, I quite enjoy this. It's refreshing just hearing someone saying   you can do it. You know, everyone can do this. There's no there's no like,   or if you're this type of person, this won't work for you or anything. It's like, no, this applies to everyone. You can all we're all gonna make it. Wag me. We're all gonna make it. Yeah. Look, and and because like underlying  

[00:39:02] Juan Granados:

that that philosophy, no, that's I was gonna bring that up because I feel like   like philosophy with positive thinking.   Again, all of the underlying maybe thoughts and ideas and intents are good.   But until you make it an effective philosophy,   then so what It's almost like the so what? Like what are you going to do about it? Because kind of like physics again or think of any fundamental basic principles.   Yes, gravity exists.   Yes, there are atoms.   Yes, you can have,   you know, entropy and all of your   laws, but how the fuck does it apply? Like, what does it matter to you? If you if humans weren't here, right? Like, in on the moon,   all of those exist. No get nobody gives a flying fuck about what it actually is there and the exact ratios for a human because it's not affecting the human. So the philosophy or like the underlying   structures that are in place always in place, fine and you want to talk about them, that's awesome.  

The concern and then where it gets positive, when I see it doing really well is when it becomes effective, like there's an effective philosophy behind it.   The   would I put this down the   the positive thinking? Maybe the the first time I heard about it was when human talk to   Goggins, David Goggins, and they were talking about, oh, I'm gonna butcher this. I'm gonna get this wrong.   The interior mid singular cortex. Okay. I don't know if it's exactly that, something like that. But anyways, that's the part of the brain or that's a sign to discover more and more that when you do when you do things that are hard that you don't wanna do, it grows and it helps you to do more things that are hard or challenging or that you would consider as a human to be suffering and help you out. You know, maybe I'm   weird and twisted, but I go like, man, that's positive thinking. I'd like to be that to me. I go that like that's that's a that's an effective philosophy of positive thinking in that, you know, positively go, shit. I don't want to go for a run. I hate running. The positive thinking can kick in and go, but you know what? This is growing my interior mid singular cortex.  

Fantastic. Let let's do it. That's me. I go, that's an effective   application of positive thinking because   you could look at it in very different ways, but you're now attached to,   reality and practical things that occur for a human. Awesome. Put it to use. And then I go, okay, now you're using in the right manners in the right ways.  

[00:41:23] Kyrin Down:

A couple of the advice that I got from there, which I thought wasn't half bad, it's just the way that they frame it is different to what I would normally expect. So hang out with people who have what you want. So this is   essentially saying, you know, if you want wealth, if you want women, if you want,   you know, more positivity,   if you want whatever,   It's better to hang out with those people. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that's, you know, the way they were phrasing of some of these things maybe go like,   there was some manifestation   chucked in there. But I'm like, Oh, yeah, sure. If you just want to change your friend group, and if you it's yeah, if you want to learn business, it's better to hang out with business people rather than   people who have never, you know, on the dole.  

If you there was a Think and Grow Rich recommendation, which I think is like the quintessential   self help book.   It's classic. It's,   that's, it's got a lot of positivity and manifestation in there with some advice as well. I think it's just like the stereotype of that. So if you're into self help, you know, they're recommending some of the better books,   lie to yourself. So   watch the critical right brain rationalizing,   which can, you know, you can find a whole bunch of reasons why you shouldn't start a new business. But if you lie to yourself and say it's going to be alright, no matter what it can you can make you take those first steps   and one which was shout out to neuro knowledge here.  

He,   he, he actually defines them. I was like, oh, this guy is defining something like this. And there was something along the lines of manifestation   is being no longer emotionally dependent on seeing your reality change.   And which essentially is just be content with the present. You know, if   manifestation is   by that definition, I could get on board if that's what manifestation is. I think they change that. I think they change that around a lot. But   yeah, there was there was quite a few things in there where I'm going like, yeah, okay. Fuck. Some of them are bold as well, man. They they say some like crazy shit in terms of,   you know, God is in is part of you and you are   part of God or like God is part of I'm just like, oh, shit.  

You know, religious people probably aren't going to like what you're saying here. You know, that's taken taking potshots at religion. That's, you got to you got to be careful with that, man. So some of them are kind of bold. Okay.   The last couple of things I had, so this is kind of my summary, I guess,   slippery slide into straight up hucksterism   and essentially being distorted because a lot of them will say,   no, oh, why isn't your manifestation working? Why isn't my positive thinking working? You're not doing it hard enough. You're not doing it hard enough. You need more faith. You need  

[00:44:02] Juan Granados:

you know, you need 4 more installments at $100 for 10 years. Bam, bam. Exactly.  

[00:44:08] Kyrin Down:

And you get it. Some of them get into some   kind of funny like anything is permissible   sort of range as well, which is,   you don't   you know, your your limiting beliefs are holding you back   And so you need to get rid of them. And I think that can also   some of them will probably lead to like, okay, well,   I don't need to be nice to people anymore.   My my child is   is holding me back, so I should cut them off completely from my life or something or my my dad. You know, there's just some things in here where I'm like, okay, well, you know, if you if you take this to its full extent,   you could create your own reality, get some, you know, Raskalnikov   from   Crime and Punishment   going on where anything's permissible. I can do anything I want.  

I think that could lead to some bad behavior. And you've certainly seen bad behavior in   a lot of the gurus   over the years don't need to   dive into the sex scandals and all that sort of stuff. Sex, sex scandals, the money, you know, that usually is where it where it manifests itself.   And   my last one here, the opposite side of being too cynical, which is probably me, to be honest, I'm rather cynical at times is too hopeful.   Open placebo can get you a rather long way, which I will acknowledge. So for me, for example,   I don't take pan at all because   I know the scientific study is saying   this actually does have some alleviating effects on pain.  

But for me, whenever I take it, it's too small for me to actually notice,   which makes me think a lot of it probably still is just placebo   or you know, placebo is doing the placebo effect is like I'm taking this is gonna make me feel better is doing like 80% of the heavy lifting. And so   because I'm kind of cynical of it, that doesn't work. And so I may be getting 20% pain alleviation, but it's so small that it's like, it's not even really doing anything. So   this is where you can hear stories of people treating cancer and their children with like   full moon sound healing shit like that or   Juan's favorite breatharian buddy, you know,   external reality,   despite it's a loseriness,   despite the fact that we can only see a limited band of the color spectrum or the light spectrum,   despite, you know,   everything being space and this could all be a dream and whatnot.  

It   even if all of that is illusory,   there's still some reality in there and it will bitch slap you if you're you're fucking around with it and   making claims which are a bit too far off the  

[00:46:45] Juan Granados:

off the off the spectrum. So if you're trying to manifest, you know, living as a breatharian,   and you wake up in the emergency ward.   What's going on? Well,   God slap you, buddy. Yeah, fuck. He said go eat some food.   Yeah, look, I think   the the   positive thinking and the the the idea, the concept of positive thinking, I think it's a good one.   The thing to watch out for as well is for the individuals.   Is it just a surface present? Are they actors?   Are they presenting something to you for you to be able to consume it and   then go off in the merry way and do other things? I can't remember the individual's name and I won't actually bring it up.  

I don't really find someone actually posted them and he wasn't   he wasn't necessarily,   clear banner here.   I'm not suggesting that this particular individual might have offed himself. There might have been like a reason for it, but he was a, let's just say semi positive semi business individual.   The usual like you do post post post post post and then I saw post and someone else shared him. It was like, oh, yeah, that team or the family is saying like, unfortunately, this dude's passed away. This dude was like 40 years old or around that age. Yeah. Unknown what it would have been like. Now,   Would it be an accident? Would it be that maybe he himself was depressed or something else that occurred? Who knows? All I'm saying is more overall,   you could be seeing a presentation or an act or something, you know, someone saying like, oh, think this do this and it might all, like, as we're saying, 98% it might be correct,   but this 2% extra might be, you know, them lying out their ass or pushing for something to do a sale or pursuing   some other nefarious pursuit.  

Maybe that's like eating them up inside and you never know. You just never know what's actually going on.   Because I think I think a lot of it is for the positive thinking. Take the the real take the the goodness that comes from it and the optimistic view and those it with reality with actual expectations.   The   example that I was gonna give, I guess, is my little summary   of   positive thinking, but with, like, undeniable truth right into it. I'm gonna call out 2 people.   Alex homozzi. I don't know if you've ever really listened to much of Alex. Just just on   Chris Williamson's modern wisdom. So I've been consuming his stuff a lot a lot a lot with one of the new business stuff that we'll be doing just in terms of hiring and a few other things. And, again, the dude talks a lot of positive stuff, a lot of good ideas, but men is at least with all the reality and all the actuals of how you do something, etcetera. Fantastic. And it's all actionable. It's all executable. So I go, that's how you want to kind of consume and understand positive thinking in a good way and how you use it but the other individual that like exemplifies   maybe the way I I wouldn't even say that I   act in this way but I can see that this would be if you had to put you know positive thinking and idealism and optimism in a in a great way. Have you have a guy called Trebnore?  

Did the daily show for a little while? Aware of him. Okay. I'm only,   like, self self, like, some somewhat aware of him. He started his own podcast. The only real reason I know him is because he started his own podcast a little while ago, and he had The Rock on for his first episode. And Spotify,   like, put a lot of,   energy to try to, like, promote it, I guess.   So he was on Steven's show with a diary of a CEO,   and I didn't actually know Trevor Noah's background or story,   and he's talking a little bit about it and the way that he applied it. Again, he grew up in South Africa,   and it was the   general   sad story that you might expect of someone who grew up in apartheid   and racism and coming to America and some difficulties.  

But there was just optimistic, like, positive the whole way, you know, Steven, the to be try to ask questions and like, you know, what was so bad about and all this and Trevor Noah was just like,   man, like, wasn't that bad? Like, you know, there was bad news. Like, everyone had it worse. Like, he was like, yeah, I had this problem this problem, but that will obviously Trevor Noah? Yeah. It's not bad old. Uh-huh. Like, in our age.   He I believe   might have this incorrect, but I believe he was born 6 years before apartheid finished.  

[00:50:48] Kyrin Down:

Okay. So I was gonna say I thought,  

[00:50:51] Juan Granados:

it had finished. Yeah. So 6 years before   like, sorry, so like he was born and the 6 year later, apartheid finished. It was like very, it's like relatively young.   So, yeah, just the way that he talked was like, yeah, all this crap shit happened to him and whatever whatever like the daily show when he first began it   was terrible and it wasn't working and he he did talk about, like, yeah, he was depressed and those issues, but just the way he talked, at least presented himself was, yeah, he was just looking at it with a positive outlook or positive mindset with a lot of, yes, but this is reality. That's why I'm like, yep. Sure. This happened. I couldn't see my dad and I had to live, you know, with my mom pretending to be a nanny to be able to walk around in South Africa,   but at least I went dead. At least I had them like that that sort of mentality and it was like,   listening to him I went that's that's what I would go is like wow that's good positive mindset.  

He's executing on things.   It would be obviously he's not gonna be doing this because he's got other things that he does but   like the Joe Dispenza and a few others, I think if those if there was more individuals like him who did sales or whatever, but just told it in that manner, I'd be like a 100% on board. I'd be like, fantastic. That's absolutely it. I think what what   drowns me out is when it starts becoming a little bit of too far into the woo woo without any practical   or without any caveats. Like, there's no caveats. There is just a 100% of surety. Like, they're they're just people sell these things like, oh, yeah. But if you just, as you say, manifest and just sleep for 10 hours and while you're sleeping for 10 hours, just dream about a Ferrari, the Ferrari will pop up.   No. Other things have to happen, but, you know, you don't actually connecting them for whatever reason you're just saying that this is what's gonna happen. So that's just that's where the problems there's usually a miracle story or 2 thrown in. You know, I was never able to walk or like,  

[00:52:37] Kyrin Down:

doctor said, I'd never walk again. But I   showed dispenser and think he was also talking about how he was   trying to use hypnotism,   hypnotism and other stuff to learn while he was sleeping and things like this. And it's like,  

[00:52:52] Juan Granados:

okay. If there's proof out there, if there's facts around this, if you want to tell us   how wrong we were in a few of these things,   send them. Maybe, look, maybe we're not informed enough. Maybe I haven't seen the research. Maybe I haven't seen the specifics.   Willing to hear about it, but I think just largely positive thinking,   it's a good thing   but it should   be more accurately solved I guess it would be to be picked up. That's probably like my my end bid on this one. That's good. We'll leave it there. Me and mortal lights once again we are a value for value show so I'm positively manifesting   that once again, you're gonna start sending through some boostograms through to us. Mere mortalspodcast.com/support  

[00:53:31] Kyrin Down:

is where I've got a list of some of the apps with some links that you go to and also an explanation of why we do it this way. Great. Great. Coming up next week, we're gonna be in Canberra. So Juan's got an interview. Correct. It's gonna place an interview. Yep. So that's already been prepared. Interview with Taj.  

[00:53:49] Juan Granados:

Kumar?   Kumar. Yep. Not related. Well, he's actually Kumar. Kumar.   Kumar Kumar. Kumar. Sorry correct.   Very very distantly related to our friend. Yes. Very distant actually asked him about it. He was like   kind of like related like you know   you would know somebody else in the vicinity. Yeah. So kinda go. But yeah. Yeah. So that's gonna be next week because we're gonna be away. It won't be a live show. Obviously, it'll be a prerecorded one. Yep.  

[00:54:15] Kyrin Down:

And after that After that. After that. Correct.  

[00:54:18] Juan Granados:

We're gonna leave the AME online unless there was any questions on the tube, but I don't think there was any.  

[00:54:23] Kyrin Down:

See. I see Patricia said waved hi. And then   I can't I see I think it's just says you  

[00:54:30] Juan Granados:

from Lucas, I'm guessing. Okay. I can't I can't see from you. I can't read it.   But for those who joined in live, thank you very much for those who are tuning in afterwards. Thank you for listening in. Share it with everybody. And again, notes, comments, and I'm all the good ways as emails as YouTube. There's   plenty of places, plenty of places you can do it for now. Me and mortal lights be well, Juan. Out to Karen out.  

[00:54:51] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Good.