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BTC is going up and Alby is going down (ish), whatever shall we do!

In Episode #464 of Mere Mortals 'Meanderings' we dive into: definitions of V4V & P2.0, the psychology of investing and how listener support can change with rising Bitcoin prices, the role of video in podcasting and whether it's necessary (it's not!), recent changes with Alby (a Lightning wallet provider) and how we might optimise for listener contribution.

Huge thanks to Cole McCormick & Chad F for supporting the show!

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:00:33) Value 4 Value & Podcasting 2.0 Clarifications
(00:06:08) Misconceptions Of BTC/V4V/P2.0
(00:20:06) Human Psychology & Bitcoin Spending
(00:32:59) Podcasting Trends & Spotify Video Integration
(00:35:08) Boostagram Lounge
(00:46:14) Alby Changes
(00:56:01) Live Podcasting and AI Tangent
(01:00:02) Value for Value Model & Future Directions For Our Ending
(01:00:23) V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure

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[00:00:06] Kyrin Down:

Welcome, Mere Mortalites, to another episode of the Mere Mortals Meanderings this time because it's going to be a little bit of a looser episode. Okay. We're calling meanderings. Yeah. We're live here at 9 AM on the 24th   November,   Sunday, Australian Eastern Standard Time. As usual, you've got Kyrin here on the side. We have Juan over here. And, I picked today's topic and, yeah, like I said, it's gonna be a bit of a loose one. Correct. And it was related to 1 or 2 things we talked about last week. 1, Bitcoin price is going up. He's afraid no one's gonna boost into us. And is that the reason why? I don't think that's the reason why, but talk more, more about that. Do we have any people at Boosted? We did. One of them. Yeah. And   I also want to talk about V for V.  

So just value for value in general because you are also   not concerned, maybe concerned about that. So some strategy when you're talking about it? I'm gonna retract that statement slightly.  

[00:01:03] Juan Granados:

Okay, I will I will   improve my definition of both value for value and podcasting 2.0. Sure. And a little bit of homework.   And I just retract and get it right. Sure. Should we start should we start with that? And then the only other thing was, related to podcasting 2.0 and even just podcasting in general about video. So Okay. Cool. Now, let me just start let me just start with this because I wanna see if, this is super correct or not correct, but at least for people at home, we've talked about this quite a few times, but two distinctions to make here in some of the things and the concepts.   Value for value   as a concept to value, number 4, and then value or however you want to write it, doesn't   necessitate the use of cryptocurrency,   doesn't even necessitate the use of a podcast platform itself. So it   by definition,   a funding model   where creators provide content to the audience for free and ask for voluntary contributions in return based on the value the audience feels they received. Where do you get that from? That can be time,   talent or treasure. That was value for value. Info? That's value for value. Info. Now that's just a summary of value for value. And again, time, talent, treasure and the treasure can be a form of fiat. It can   be US dollars, $1,000,000,000, $1,000,000,000, Canadian dollars, Colombian pesos,   cryptocurrency, no, no,  

[00:02:17] Kyrin Down:

no agenda.   I think they say some of the largest donations   they get   through checks.   That's actually an interesting  

[00:02:27] Juan Granados:

term I think. I wonder   taxation offers. If you say these are donations   to me,   does that financially change   We're a charity now.   Where the mere mortals are a charity. This is not for profit. They're sending us donations.   Yeah. So anyway, so I just wanted to define that for a valley for valleys. I think I've   misconstrued it sometimes.   Be very specifically, it's around,   is the content   free versus payroll? Is it,   it's an audience contribution? And it is and we've talked about, we haven't actually talked about this that often.   It's trust, it's fundamentally trust based   and what I mean by that is, I'll give you a clear example, I have a product coming from a company that sent across, Hey, New Immortals, we like what you're doing, we'd like, we, asked to sponsor you and do a few things and we basically go, no, we're not going to do that,   like I really appreciate it   because one part of it is you need to immortalize, you need to trust   what we are saying that it comes very much from us. Now, in the end, this particular company is sending me the product anyways,   as a, I don't know if it's a goodwill or just look, I'm willing to send it out to you, try it out. If you want to create something with it or give us honest reviews, feel free to do so.  

I'm telling Ebay more. I was like, okay. Look, I'll try it. I'll do a review on it. Just to, it seems like maybe it'd be of interest to people. Maybe of interest to this company. Again, it's a very trust   non it's directed by us as opposed to directed by other entities or even the audience  

[00:03:56] Kyrin Down:

to an extent and you see this all the time you know you gave Chris Williamson   a mere model shirt correct  

[00:04:03] Juan Granados:

to even James  

[00:04:05] Kyrin Down:

there was there was no obligation on your part it's not like you're like I'll give this to you if   like no no here you go   And   the similar thing when people boost in or send in notes and stuff, it's like,   they could just do an advertisement if they wanted to. And people do sometimes and like, if they send us money,   I'd probably be like, oh, yeah, sure. I'll read out your thing. But yeah, well, we've done that before. We've got number 4 in some boostograms where in in the actual boost and the wording they do say, yeah, they talk about other things. And and but it's always on us. Like if it's like   a 10 minute long ad read. I'm not going to read it. You know, I'll look at it and be like,   I'll maybe talk about it and then go okay, no. Correct. Correct. So yeah, that it is trust based. Now the other aspect podcasting 2.0, which is  

[00:04:53] Juan Granados:

more what I guess intended in some of the conversations I had in the past definition of that. Podcasting 2.0, open initiative to enhance the open podcasting ecosystem with modern features and decentralized principles seeks to give creators more control, improve listening experiences and integrate new technology standards. Now,  

[00:05:08] Kyrin Down:

enhanced RSS. No one understood that. Value for value integration. Not only did you talk too fast, but it uses a lot of work. Well, basically.  

[00:05:17] Juan Granados:

More features. Sorry, more features than you see in your standard. Correct. And you have the ability to integrate with a value for value payment. Here being the lightning network,   the layer 2, of Bitcoin to be able to transact with each other. That's basically, in essence, the podcasting to put our aspect. There are other qualities around it, but I guess, for   the intended conversation right now and what I said the other week around, you know, what happens with the price of Bitcoin slash satoshis goes up or down? Mhmm. What then occurs based on the transactions that go from value to value movement, I guess, that you would utilize it with? Yep. So those are the 2. Those are the ones that I want to make that super clear. I think I've misconstrued in the past. Sure. No, no good good definitions there. So I wanted to start this with probably just maybe some like theoretical type things right at the start. And then we'll get into some practical things that how it might change us as podcasters  

[00:06:06] Kyrin Down:

and things like that.   So to start off, my proudest intellectual work ever, I would say like the best idea I've ever had   is   when I equated   value for value podcasting 2.0 and Bitcoin. And so this was   what like   a year, maybe 2 years ago, I can't even remember now where I created like a little presentation slide. I presented one of this at the Bitcoin meetup that I go to just it's like a 30 minute presentation,   inform the whole almost the whole core of season 2 of the   season 3, season 3, sorry, of the value for value podcast, which is still online, if you want to check it out. And basically, it was like,   okay, the these 3 have all these, these properties in common   permissionless,   you can have self sovereignty,   it is decentralized and then value transfer it within them.  

And like intellectually, like if I was gonna write a book or something,   this   is the one this is the thing like,   it's probably like what I wouldn't get renowned for, but it's what I would like to get renowned for. Okay.   However,   I I think all of these can get somewhat distorted. We already talked about that a little bit. So I wanted to go over a couple of like,   things which one you already mentioned that V for V is Bitcoin. So V for V is not Bitcoin.   One of the things you were asking about last week is   Bitcoin price goes up, people don't want to spend.   It's actually kind of the opposite because   once again, I'm gonna say no agenda a lot here because this is Adam Curry show is founder of V for V, founder of podcasting, founder of BTC.  

And   he, you know, he is a pioneer, and he does it really well.   What he says is when they actually get less donations, and is typically when people are getting   less rich. And so around tax time in the US   or   economic downturns   is when they see less donations coming into the show, less less support.   And but when people get windfalls such as get some BTC perhaps going up in price or some stocks going up in price or just the general market as it is right now, everything's hitting all time highs basically.   Then that's when they actually see more support   coming in. I think the same argument is,   if you're getting a lot more   bit, I can't see the argument of saying like, okay, people   see that Bitcoin is more valuable and is more likely to go up. It's not like they're they're going to ascending   in Apple shares to   no agenda,   because they think Apple is going   to rise or Nvidia,   perhaps is even more pertinent recently, or master   MSTR.  

So I could kind of see that argument. But I think the overriding like, I'm wealthier. Now I can dish out a bit more money is more the overriding principle.   So, yeah, if people are getting wealthier, I don't think it necessarily means   they're not going to contribute, or they might just contribute more fear.  

[00:09:19] Juan Granados:

Yeah.   So yeah, I guess my the opposing thought I have on that is   one   that example is it the general or is it the fractional few   that do become like very wealthy   and then have the ample ability to give   kind of have a thought that   you you already have to be willing to participate in the system and give so that when you have more of it then give more.   But in general, I think in general   general, the immortal   is   I would hazard a guess to keep as opposed to give if the price of it goes up whatever that inherent price is the value of it is the same so the value itself is the same   It's the price   that we interact with in the world that differs that I think can change. Here's an example, if you bought   and this might be interesting because you might not   see it this way. I would bet that this would be a general consensus of the way that people would see it. If you bought a bottle of wine for $50   2 years ago, you know, I'm keeping it for like a nice occasion, but $50.  

You're gonna have friends over and whatnot, then maybe the week prior   this winery estate   gets renowned for whatever. All of a sudden, this bottle of wine is now $50,000   Now, friends come over, do you crack open the $50,000 bottle of wine, the now priced at $50,000 bottle of wine or do you go, I've got another bottle that I just bought. I'm going to use that one. I'm willing to bet   that you're probably going to go, you know what, I'm going to get the $50 bottle. It's a bit more reasonable and say it goes to 500. Okay, let's go, let's say, okay. So, you go to 500.   Not, it's not going to be a 0%   amount of individuals that will still go and open the bottle and go, you know what, whatever like I'll saving it for this, it's worth more.  

I'm a little bit in the balance because I guess for at least for me, I'm like, I don't know, I would, I would resell a bottle of wine. I guess I'd just reuse it. Maybe you feel the same way too and I think there'd be a lot of other people.   But,   I think for a large majority,   if it went up that valley,   your thoughts on well, a bottle of wine still a bottle of wine, it holds the same inherent value, but the price is different.   You would want to map that back to maybe an occasion or using it where the price kind of matches.   That's maybe where I'm getting to with Bitcoin, where   it's the individuals who, it's not the individuals who are now become extremely wealthy. So, I've been thinking people who are already wealthy and the utilization   of Bitcoin or Satoshi is to them be fluid, pretty easy to   do. While it goes up, doubles up, triples up,   okay, I could see them doing more because there's just more of it, fine.  

I'm thinking of the majority where it's, they have a fractional amount of Bitcoin, some satoshi's there, and it does go up,   kind of like the wine bottle equation or,   yeah, analogy.   I have more of a feeling that there'd be less of a wanting to   send the same amount. Perhaps you'd send, maybe you'd still participate, but send a much more fractional amount than you've done prior, purely for the inherent reason that, oh no, this is now worth a price that's more.   Part of me goes and this is I think the thing that I was saying,   the fault   of Bitcoin itself, I think in the usage like that is that if it was more stable,   I think people would see that more as a form of using it to pay for something and transact with it.  

I think there'd be more of a connection to the inherent value which is of sovereign, it's being able to go peer to peer, it's all of these things, but when the fluctuation then becomes, well price goes high, it's double and triple,   In general conversations, you don't no one's talking about that. Yeah. Everyone's talking about, you know, and you see it in the market, you see it in the news, a lot of the conversation is, but, fuck, is big Yeah. I've listened to a couple of podcasts in the last couple of days and it's like, yeah. Even Bitcoin, a $100,000,000,000,000 of market happened, that means the price of the coin is gonna be this and the price of this is gonna be that and this is whole there's always conversation of price, price, price, price,   which then incentivizes me to think, okay, well, what's gonna   make a general person dead, if the price is priced all the conversation is, why would you be sending that as opposed to the separate conversation of, Yeah, but there's inherent value Bitcoin that's really good, that is separated from the price.  

Which is why I kind of view it as in the real long term, like really, really long term, when   prices   kind of not part of the equation because let's just say,   Bitcoin is all there is.   Then that changes because you don't map Bitcoin to, oh well that's cost 12,000 US dollars. Well, what if that isn't the mapping? It's just you just price it a bit more. 720,000   to Toshiba,000   to Toshiba.   That changes the picture of that transaction. That's why I think because if it right like right now in this world right now I'd go think about the podcasting 2.0 space would be better if we used a tethered point. Yeah, yeah. So the  

[00:14:25] Kyrin Down:

I'll do the human psychology bit first, and then I'll get onto the so the first one, I think you've mentioned it. It was   neither of us are psychologists, but we've read a   I feel like everyone can kind of be a psychologist.   You get to you get to play around with your own mind. And then you can try and expand this out to humanity.   I think you just you said something like it exacerbates what's already there or something like that, which is   yeah, I mean, what 90?   What are the general stats? I think it's like 3% of people contribute   monetarily   to, to a value for value show. That's like, maybe you'll get to 10%.  

But even that's probably stretching it. So   you're already   at like a little, only a tiny portion of your audience is actually going to contribute. There's no way everyone's   Yeah, you know, not even a majority. Yeah, not even a majority, you won't even get close to that.   Those people who are already willing to give will probably give more if they're a hoarder,   and only extracting from your show and only just want the info and don't ever want to contribute back. They're probably and they've got some Bitcoin, they're only going to hold that even more like that. So you're definitely going to have like the extreme end and then the other end. And the ultimate question at the end of the day is,   are you getting enough value back from your audience   having provided it first up that you can continue, whether that be in   the monetary sense, you know, we don't have that big costs. But there are   shows which probably have bigger costs and trying to do value for value.  

Or if   you just get side benefits of fame, or, you know, recognition or whatever else that you're seeking on the side.   Yeah.   When Chris Fisher,   so he had a show called Plan B, and   podcast   called Plan B   in I think it was 2013.   And this was probably the 1st Bitcoin podcast.   And   it's still up online places. If you go search Plan B podcast, I think you'd be able to find that Jupiter Broadcasting or Chris Fisher type that in. And one of the things he was saying was back in those times in 2013,   there was a real push to spend your Bitcoin, you got to use it. And so he used to have   tons,   tens, if not 100,   but he was spending them because that was the kind of thing you do you spend it over here, you know, you send it to this guy, you buy some pizzas for 10,000,   whatever.  

And it's only   in the last,   I don't know, 10 years, maybe where it's become more like, oh, this is the store of value.   You want to keep it as much as you can, because it's going to be more valuable in the future. And I've gone to a couple of Bitcoin meetups where   wild claims have gone out like   these are going to be more like, it's going to propagate across the universe.   You know, aliens.   There's nothing more scarce than this. And I'm just like,   if you could trade stars,   they're going to be more valuable than fucking Bitcoin. Like, let's be real, you know, anyway,   that was the type of mentality like HODL at all costs. Do not   let go. Do not let go.  

I think like you said, it's it's just this transition zone where it's so volatile that   yeah, let's see in like 2 decades time, if it's only moving by   5%.   I mean, shit.   USD, Fiat currencies have a volatile in that sense, they move 5% every,   every year on average of 4%.   I don't use the   official inflation numbers of 2%. I think they're a bit dodgy.   Nevertheless,   that that still moves a lot. It just doesn't feel like it. Correct. And it's only you know, when you go to a barbecue like last night and you've   jazz told me oh, yeah, orange juice costs $8 or something.   What? Correct. So   these things change. And yeah, Bitcoin just needs to get slightly less volatile. Yeah. And that's why I gotta get behind is  

[00:18:31] Juan Granados:

what is the   downside of a quick moving asset? Is that the asset then   fundamentally from a human psychology, is then you associate price more than you do the value of what makes it important.   Cate in point,   what I don't see at all in conversations around,   and got brought up in the round hole and seen by the late convo was   that Bitcoin in itself,   the fundamental thing around it is the blockchain   and the fact that it solved the,   Byzantine   problem and what the technology of blockchain does and does not   and some of those bullpipes is like man not fucking nobody talks about that anymore really unless   you were there for the value, you were there for the ideology of Bitcoin, you were there for the understanding of how it works.  

With more of the inflection of prices, no one gives a hoop because the overarching   thing you care about is a price.   Just as much as you know, if again just the comparison if my car   tomorrow was worth a 100 times what it is, I'm probably going to drive it differently, I'm probably going to think about it differently, I'm going to be annoyed if we crash it with the hell yeah!   It changes. It's the same thing, you know, let's go fundamental   from the, you know, particles. Nothing changes, but it is your foundational   understanding of what the price of it is that changes the behavior. Yeah. And I think that to me, look and I see it, you say for,   you know,   some podcasts out there, they do still get quite a bit of funds coming through from a valley from podcasting people in perspective.  

I see now that   honestly,   we could probably get more support coming through a Fiat way than we would   the podcasting 2.0 cryptocurrency   model, just because there's going to be a large percentage of people who are going to keep that as opposed to it. Does that mean that people   will completely stop sending altogether? No, I think that there's still going to be a few,   the few that always do, but as you mentioned, the few that always do will continue to support because they inherently   do find the fun like the value of it there. Everyone else   fuck man, it's gonna be even up. How do you onboard now someone into fountain and be like, hey, you know that Bitcoin that you had and go from a 1000 to 3000?  

I want you to send all of your profit away. Yeah. But, you send it out, they're gonna be like, no. No, because now I'm waiting for it to get to I'm hearing it's gonna get to $1,000,000   which means I'm gonna have 25,000 I'm not selling I'm I need to wait for that $25,000   You bet your dollar people are not gonna be sending that shit. And I've seen this in myself since it's risen,  

[00:21:08] Kyrin Down:

what 5x   more than that 6x   when I was I was using it when it was like down at the slows.  

[00:21:16] Juan Granados:

In 21,021,000,   showing Yeah,  

[00:21:18] Kyrin Down:

my average boost amount has gone from a row of ducks   2,222.   And I'd now do rows of sticks.   1100. Why?   Yeah, partly because   I've I measure it based on how much we get coming in. And so if I see the fountain wallet going down too quick, I'm like, Alright, well, I gotta put on the bricks. Otherwise, I'm gonna be myself putting in, you know, a grand a year into this, whereas I'd rather try and just keep it circular in that sense.   Side note like topic for next week, maybe psychology of investing or something like that. Okay. Because we're, we're getting into a hype stage. So yeah, we should do that. I think that'll be good.   I, my, my vision as well, they don't talk about it on podcasting 2.0 because they, they always try and use the most   well, they like Bitcoin because it's the most decentralized   currency out there, cryptocurrency.  

And   they like that.   They don't like centralization.   And we'll talk about Albi in probably in the after section and why centralization   is not not so good at times.   But   there is I know there's one guy, Alex Gates, who's walking at working on somehow doing Monero and being able to do the same thing, micro micro payments   and transactions.   I envision the future like you kind of do as well, where   it's it's something that you're just used to whatever your currency is, wherever you are in the world, just   your official   one, perhaps.  

And when you're just using your wallet, or you're using your app, I should say your podcasting app   probably is going to still be doing it through that to send value, a value for value payment.   You just see it in that number. And then whatever it uses in the back end, it could be like a, you know, a DEX aggregator,   you know, how they   go to all these different decentralized exchanges to find the best price, and they give that to you   could be the same thing. It'll be like, okay, I want to send money from, you know, 5 Australian dollars from myself to   podcasting 2.0 or to   a call McCormick, America Plus.  

And it just finds like the cheapest route to do that, whether it be the lightning network, whether it be through Solana, whether it be whatever, and then just converts it on his back end. So   there's still a lot to go for that wallets are not at the stage where you can just have one overall wallet. You know, there's Bitcoin wallets, there's Ethereum wallets, there's Solana wallets, but it's got to come, man. It's got to come where there's a point where   you can just do it all within one wallet.   Even though wallets not the probably the best term for it still, because this is all just it's,   you know,   actually, it's probably it's probably fine.  

5 years ago, using the term wallet to describe   accessing your Bitcoin wasn't great, because it's, you know, you're using a pass,   a passphrase or passkey   to access something   that is on a ledger. So it's never, it's never in your physical wallet, like on your phone. So people get confused   and be like, oh, no, it looks like now it is. But   you know, that's, that's the word now. But yeah, it's kind of getting to that stage. So   yeah, the only other one I wanted to talk about theoretically was,   podcasting and video.   And this was another misconception.  

Podcasting needs video.   There's there's been a push for this for probably like,   I don't   know, or 5 years maybe now where it's   you need to have it. And   what what attracted   what what made podcasting really popular once again, going back to Adam Curry, because he he talks about the kind of history of podcasting.   In the 2000s,   it was actually   more exciting than YouTube was because YouTube was just getting started. And so   podcasting was like,   oh, my God, there's there's some hype around this thing. Like, you get this great content.   You're never going to find anywhere else, this sort of thing. And then there was this push from people and he noticed it because he had   a company called,   what was it? I know the name, what he changed the name to, which was Meveo.  

It was named something else before that pod something or whatever.   But then all the VCs backing him or   advertisers or something like that were like, no, no, no. Like, it's gotta be more video focused, things like this. So they changed the name to MeVideo   and   basically, like increased all of their costs of business without getting any extra additional revenue.   And so   if you're if you're starting off with podcasts, something like you don't have to have video, it's very useful for   social media stuff.   But if you've got good enough content,   and   once again, like I still see a lot   regularly. Last night I was listening to a YouTube channel guy I really like. He covers   the Hunter x Hunter manga.  

And   he was like, Oh, well, you know, and that that manga deals with some, like, serious topics. It's got death, it's got murder, it's got suicide, it's got torture, it's got rape, all these sorts of things in it.   And he has to be very careful with his words and he calls it out sometimes where he's like,   I can't use this word or I'm going to get demonetized   or this one will be restricted to 18 plus   blah, blah, blah.   And so, yeah, you're always you're always on a little bit of a tightrope if you're doing the video because that is very centralized. It's YouTube. Maybe one day it won't be.  

[00:26:58] Juan Granados:

But at the moment it is Yeah, I get it. I get what you're saying, I guess. Yeah, I'd say in the mod currently,   or a lot of the video   based platforms   are some in some sense,   will censor things depending on what they see fit as being one though that isn't would be x like x you can put up long form videos. Oh, yeah. You can go for a lot. You can put everyone. So I guess no, it's starting to change probably in some aspects. We'll say I would also say personally,   do you need video in podcasts in general?   No. However, I've actually started to find myself   watching podcast a lot more with videos.  



[00:27:35] Kyrin Down:

Are you doing it on Spotify? Because they're doing a Correct. So the one that I've been doing more mostly with  

[00:27:43] Juan Granados:

and I I kind of like fluffed between a few of the podcasts that I watch and I'll really I'll listen to a few of one particular and then go to the other.   So at the moment it's the diary of CEO.   He's,   put all the videos up on Spotify   and I found myself   one of the beauties I do like about Spotify and that it does this is I do like its fluidity between being able to watch it on video and then listen to just the audio as I go on. YouTube does this as well if you've got a paid version of YouTube. Yep. But it does this really well in connecting with multimodal   views. So, the Spotify   is able to do it really easily as well connecting to my,   car of display   Mhmm. Versus, you know, a few other places which I'm like, and my watch stuff like that like really, really easily. So the experience is good. I like that. But even just before, I was gonna listen to a Jocko Willink podcast and gonna listen to it, on Spotify   and I went, I wanna watch the video of this because I was going for a run   on trade books. I was like, I'm going to go jump on YouTube and actually watch this as opposed to listening to it on this other platform.  

So some of my trends have started to move towards   watching   the actual content versus just listening to it.   But I still like the ability to listen to it in times when I just can't watch when I'm driving   or I'm going for an outdoor run or I'm doing I'm   at the gym, sorry, I'll listen to podcasts, I'll still want something that I can listen to it with   the caveat that I can jump in quickly and watch the video of it. So   it's starting to form a little bit more of the way that I consume my content definitely in terms of watching it not just   getting the audio from out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, actually, I was gonna say just one more thing. The, I don't know if this is the case for a lot of the stuff that you listen to or consume, but a lot of the things that I've been consuming lately, I've noticed   there's been an   example, Tim Ferris, a couple of years ago, when he would do a podcast and he'd be interviewing with people, he would be like, they'd be talking about something and go off for the listeners who can't see this, we're talking about this, we're doing that. That's like soft down. Yeah, people don't know. That doesn't do that anymore. There's no more like, Oh, if you can't see,   it's just,   Steven Bartlett wants to prove like a massive example.  

The first   to you or 45 seconds of the podcast is this huge like montage of videos and things happening. They don't change that for the audio. There's none and in the video, you can see a countdown on what's happening.   They show like through the actual, you know, before the whole show, they'll show like, oh yeah, we're holding this up and we're talking to a coin and we're doing all that and say shit, if you're listening to the audio on it, so you do start to lose some of the context and people are stopping   to kind of help out the audio only people who are listening to it. It's interesting because  

[00:30:29] Kyrin Down:

I've noticed that similar thing.   Yet. I   believe that audio   will still get more   downloads and listens.   So yes, that you, you know, you're kind of being treated like a second class citizen in your own   in your own kind of country.   You know, when you're the majority,   it's kind of Yeah, like,   DDI has made it into podcasting people, the audio, the audio   bulk   are getting shunned in favor of the small minority of the   ones who have the ones who don't, we're going to start saying like, you know, if you if you refer to something in, in the video format,   and you're an audio guy, and you refer to a video,   and you call them like video or something that would be like calling someone a coon or something. Oh,  

[00:31:19] Juan Granados:

you can't do that. You can't say that, mate. Should we jump into the boostgrams? I still I still have Actually, one interesting question I was gonna have was, have you had any expectations of any value for value boostograms ever coming through? Sorry, and this is actually an interesting one.   We create   podcasts largely for them to   be eternal.   Although not all of them are going to be eternal, some of them are going to be in the moment. One of the things that I've wanted to see   or would have been excited to see was a lot of the value for value shows that you created.   I would   very much say those are you could listen to them today and still be as relevant. It has just the foundational concepts. One thing that I've seen at least in the podcasting 2.0 space is there's no more   streaming or   I don't actually, I don't know about streaming, but specifically boosts that are coming through on those particular episodes.  



[00:32:08] Kyrin Down:

So you mean my, the actual value for that? Correct. Correct. Do you think it's because it's just a relevancy  

[00:32:14] Juan Granados:

thing or it's because actually,   people are just not and this is again people question for everyone at home as well.   When I started listening to podcasts back in like 2014, 2015,   I went back to all the way episode 1 and episode 2 of some of these people. Tim Ferriss, I listened   to from episode 1 all the way through to really like go through it. I would not do that at all anymore nor with my stream of things that are coming through, I sometimes just don't go back unless they're really   special podcasts and I really like to listen to all the episodes that I care about. I kind of get a little bit of feeling of, I don't know if we'll ever see some of the older episodes really get re listened to unless they're   very, very,   very non timeline based, like some of the book review stuff that we do. Yeah. Yeah. It's that was certainly one thing I thought would happen more  

[00:33:04] Kyrin Down:

when   I was first learning about all of this, because it was like, oh, you could you can, you know, monetize all all your previous content. Yeah. And   but I mean, the same thing applies on YouTube.   In fact, it probably works better there because   old videos still do really well. That's why you see like shit stuff from   published in 2016,011  

[00:33:28] Juan Granados:

Our HoopSnake video that's like it's still continuously get watched so much. I was talking about that last night, actually. The  

[00:33:37] Kyrin Down:

so   I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I look at my brother for certain examples because he's 6 years younger. And so it's like, okay, what's he doing?   He'll watch live streams of people.   And he will prefer to watch   them live if possible.   But   if he really likes the person, he will go back and watch live streams from years ago. Really? So wow. So that's one where I'm like, okay, yeah, I think I think if you just really maybe people just don't really enjoy us. Maybe they hate my voice. Who knows?   There's certain I think   this gets on to like creating really people gravitate to where the really great content is wherever the platform is.  

And   so if you make it just really, really good,   they'll go, I'm not sure ours is   that  

[00:34:30] Juan Granados:

re available.   And I'll give you an example. So   we talked about this off air beforehand.   The podcast founders actually don't know how popular it is because just seeing how many on YouTube it has, not many,   but that one is one that'll go, you could listen to that at any point. In fact, I literally scrolled down the page very, very far down the page just to find the Tiger Woods one and just started listening to that one and I went, fuck yeah. This is really good. And it doesn't, it's not an in the moment thing.   I think maybe we   fall a little bit into the   kind of falls under the timeline version, we have episode numbers to ours, same with like a Joe Rogan or some other style, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.  

Anyways, Boot Screen Lounge, we get to call out the individuals who've been supporting the podcast. Yep.   We've got one that's come through in the last week. We've got Cole McCormick. Cool. Cool. And that's,   one row of sticks, 1111   sets and using content. So here we go. I'm starting to see things starting to go down into the sticks as opposed to the raw of ducks or the 323s.   Karl says like Freeman sucks.  

[00:35:32] Kyrin Down:

Karl also really, really does not like Chris Christie.  

[00:35:35] Juan Granados:

He blocked me on Twitter and now hearing his deep work bullshit makes me so happy and barred from seeing his live advice for a productive lonely life. So to be clear, this was a guy talking about This was a guy talking about like as opposed to like saying it. Yeah. Your focus in life should be to love your family,   yourself and be healthy. You 2 are on it. Now, I'm gonna disagree with Karl here. Okay? I'm gonna disagree with this. Yeah, Karl. And, the way I'm gonna disagree is   I think, Karl's calling out their legs, 'Lake sucks'   because he doesn't value or love or it seems like he doesn't love the family yourself and be healthy. I'll disagree with that. I would say, I don't think   you could actually call out whether Lex actually does it or not. You can only judge it on the things that are posted, what we know of.  

Maybe, maybe he doesn't really, really, really care about family himself,   those sort of things as opposed to anything else. Maybe he doesn't. So, I think one thing that you we have to be careful about is   how much do you interpret from the social media that you consume of someone? You don't really know. Joe Rogan talks about this and a few other like big ones in the past have talked about it where someone will come up to him and say like, come in. Yeah, they'll talk to him like he's a like a friend because I know him, they've listened to him. Joe's like, 1, I don't know who the motherfucker is, but 2,   like it's a very small part of his life and yet when you're yourself,   that's what you're going to be like in person when you meet people,   but generally, there's a lot of other things that you don't get to see around,   you know, life. So you're not seeing some of the things, but then 2,   you you also kind of get, if someone's out there be like, fuck love,   fuck family, I'm here to make some money. Hey, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, that work hard. And, but they get like real joy out of that and that's their passion.  

Fuck it, do it. No, that's fine.   So I I would I would push back and call there to go,   does he suck? I mean, if he's living to what he's doing, fuck it. Awesome. Right. You know? The other one would be just   be capable of how much you believe some of the things that you see on the socials versus probably what the reality of it is.   I wanna I wanna know what Karl got blocked for. What did Yeah. I got blocked I got blocked by,   what's his name? Not Jack Paul.   I'll tell the poor brother. Logan Paul. I got blocked by Logan Paul. You know what?   Because what was, what's the guy that does scams videos?  

What's his name? Famous guy that does, like, really, like, really well edited videos. He scams people? No. No. No. No. No. He he, like, does videos of, like, oh, this is how this person did this scam and  

[00:37:57] Kyrin Down:

Oh, it's Coffeezilla. Coffeezilla.  

[00:37:59] Juan Granados:

So Coffeezilla did a video on Logan Paul and it was about the end of the T's for zoo,   zoo animals or something like that. And I remember watching it   and Coffeezilla even said, if you comment this particular thing on a Logan Paul, he will block it. Like it will be a almost immediate block. And I was like, I've got to test this out. And I literally went on Twitter and I was like, found a post from Logan Paul and I said,   it was like, I think it was something related to it. I was like, oh,   where   did all the money or where did this go from your,   Zootopia NFTs? And then  

[00:38:32] Kyrin Down:

sure enough, 30 tickets later, bam, blocked. And to this day, it's all blocked. Does it tell you if someone blocks you? Yes. Okay. I'm not sure I've been blocked.  

[00:38:39] Juan Granados:

In the past, in the past on Twitter or the very onyx,   If you're blocked, you could not see anything,   anything. Whereas I think they've slightly updated it so that   you can see what they post.   And you cannot interact with it at all.   So it's something that it's like limited amounts of what you can see. Yeah.  

[00:38:57] Kyrin Down:

So yeah. All right. You 2   hooligans out here getting blocked left right and center. But anyways, Colt, appreciate it. Thank you very much for the support, man. Yeah, pretty much. Cole from America plus seats also. He's he did an interview with   the founder of Indie Hub, which is kind of trying to   do v for v, but with video and movies in particular. So a lot more like a video streaming platform.   And I'm halfway through that at the moment. It's pretty good. Coles a good interview. It does good ones.   All right. Let's jump into some actionable   like advice or things going on, things that we need. I'll be let's talk about. I'll be change. Yeah. So the Alby pocalypse   is what I was going on this part. I don't even know. So basically for those who don't know, Alby was   a lightning wallet provider   who gave you the liquidity,   easy onboard,   easy ish, easy ish   onboarding access to   this is mostly on the user side, but on podcaster side as well. Onboarding access to it, I. E. You could put in the credit card detail and get some Bitcoin lightning Bitcoin Bitcoin on the Lightning Network,   which you could then send off stream to your favorite podcasters, aka the mere mortals.  

They also have integrated with a whole bunch of podcasting apps. So in particular,   Podcast Guru,   Oddverse,   Custom Matic, I think they were with true fans, but not anymore.   So I think Sam's doing his own thing. So there's multiple different apps where they were the kind of back end, they were doing all the hard stuff. This happens all the time. Why was the App Store so popular? It's because it just let you be a dev and then Apple   or Google would handle all the money processing and shit behind the scenes. And so you wouldn't have to deal with that same sort of concept here.   So they over the years have,   like, integrated more and more into the podcasting. And Adam, this whole time was like, guys, just so you know, like, this could go away one day, like this is, we're becoming very centralized here. We've got to watch out for this. And I remember hearing this, I'm like,   it'll be alright.  

Don't worry about it. It'll be fine. And then and then   over the last probably 6 months to 9 months.   They   so I'm not sure. They're German based,   I believe because the   chat of Morrison   and   I forgot the other name,   guy, the German Moritz.   Pretty, pretty German. But I believe if you're operating in the US or anything like that, you know, you fall under US law   and just the restrictions, all these things, they needed money license transmitters because they were sending money back and forth or they were holding money for other people   in these wallets, which they   would technically have access to.  

And so this just like,   they're putting themselves in legal trouble, potentially.   And so   over the past 6, 9 months here, they've had to stay like, oh, you know, we're putting limits on this account in terms of how much you can use.   You can only do this many daily transactions. And then we got an email recently saying like, we're going to close down   the free Albie service that we're using,   that that we are using, as well as podcasters,   because we can put our own details in.   And   this is then obviously going to also affect all of the podcasting apps. So   in terms of effects,   it's not going to affect us that much. We've got a pretty easy solution.  

We've already have multiple different splits with fountain and   Satoshi stream.   I can just make those   the splits and we'll just, you know, easy peasy done for us.   It's more on the listener side where it's like, oh, shit, there's now 3 apps which I can't use   to be able to integrate   and send these sorts of things. And the whole point of this is to have, you know, an ecosystem of apps being able to,   you know, plug and play. I want to use this app, I want to use this way to transmit   or send value   through it.   And it's   not like that at the moment. You can still do it through Fountain, you can still do it through Truefans.  



[00:43:13] Juan Granados:

But obviously, now that has limited the scope. Yeah, I think I'm gonna do this. Interesting. I did doing that. Oh, is it a challenge to   get onboarding?   Getting people to actually participate in the system? Yeah. So  

[00:43:26] Kyrin Down:

some   solutions that they're looking at is have you heard of strike before?   Strike? Yep. So Jack Mullins, have you heard of him before?   So he's the CEO of it. He's a real kind of Bitcoin guy.   And he set up strike is basically it's almost like in competition with Western Union. So the money transmitter being able to do remittances and things like that, and they use lightning on the back end. I think they also use some stable coins now as well. And they've got an API where you could do a very similar thing to what Albie is doing, probably even in a better manner.   Then it gets into like the real technical details   difference between key send and   LND like this is like   diving into the web of the actual protocols   and things like this.  

I don't know. That's the sort of thing where in like, you know, maybe in 3 months time or 6 months time, it'll be like,   I'll have an update and something like that. So   in terms   of changes for us, just in terms of how we do things   and how most,   you know, most of the people who send in boost, they do it through fountain. So no change there.   We can do a quick and easy change out   to replace   our splits, but no real change there.   It's more just it's kind of like it's discouraging. It's like, fuck.   We had all these like apps that were working. The system was going,   and now it's like, okay, we got to gotta do it. When are you gonna move out all your   probably soon ish, I guess. Yeah, I haven't I haven't really thought of it. We have until you have until January 6, I believe until it. If you're an AIB user. And I should should clarify as well.  

With Albie there is we could keep it all.   And   there's a paid option, which is   like 10 ks sats a month for the 1st 3 months and then 20 something.   We don't earn enough coming in to really justify that.   And I've had an option   since forever. There was a guy at the Bitcoin Meetup group who   I think he also for like 20 ks sets a month would   operate a lightning node for us. And then I could essentially do all of these things without the hassle of me having to deal with liquidity and,   and all the technical buying. I'm buying stuff from it. Yeah. Which I looked at once. We all remember this for a while. It was in my monthly goals for a long time. Never happened. I'm really glad I didn't do it. Yeah, I'm glad you didn't actually I'm glad you didn't. So   yeah, so it's just one of those ones where it's like,   it's more   about   the general   direction trends is the core principle   behind this, you know, solid I using   RSS to be able to send value   back and forth?  

Yes, I think and not only that, but also content,   I. E. Podcasts.   Yes, I think that's still the thing. And just a little bit of a setback in terms of being able to use it   really nicely and easily. So   that was one thing.   Dave and Adam are doing so we don't really need to do much from that easy change.   Cool. Dave and Adam are working on this thing. They're super secret project.   And it's actually one of the things that I've had on,   I've wanted to do for a long time. And it's basically like   they call it a specific   specific hyperlocal app centered around a live show. And so imagine a podcast app   where   you're, you're really downloading it just to access the MIR models live, as we go live   2 times a week at the moment.  

I'd want to do more in the future. I'll talk more about that shortly.   And you use the app because it's it's particularly centered around us   as the as the kind of creators   of   the show.   We could also   we already recommend a couple of other shows in our pod roll. And basically the app could kind of auto populate. So if you're a podcaster,   you know, a podcast listener, download the app you like, I really want to access,   let's just say Diary of a CEO.   And then you can kind of get all of the branching shows, which he would recommend. So it's sort of like a tailored app for for that audience,   I. E. Being   hyper local in the sense that it's what we recommend to other people.  

There'd be a chat in there. So   like a continuous chat   IRC type deal.   And   it's kind of like no agenda.   Their whole system that they've got set up, which is they've got a continuous live stream, which plays value, the value for value show on actually every now and then   with   so a live, it's a live stream,   which has live podcasts on there pretty regularly.   And then in the gaps between those, when there's no one live, they play a pre recorded show,   I. E. Value for value.   And   I've wanted to do this for ages, man. I've had it on my to do list. Let me just quickly jump here. It's right at the bottom of it because I keep putting it down.   But it was,   there's a I've written voidsarea.net   for a chat room because I was like, oh, we should try and get a chat room sometime.  

That was   doing some what else do I have on here? It was like editing,   editing stuff to be able to do a live stream, a continuous live stream   like website type deal as well.   A schedule, I've wanted to put a schedule on our front page for ages.   If you had this app, I'm sure there'd be a schedule in it saying, like, here's when the next live streams are coming up.   It's very far away from being anything, but it's kind of like, oh, this is the kind of thing I would definitely play around with and want to use.   Whether this be a general trend once again,   podcasting 2.0 Adam   and Dave are typically   5 years too early for these sorts of things. 5 to 10 years. But  

[00:49:31] Juan Granados:

yeah, it was one of those things where I found it was, it was very interesting. And I would want to try out at some point. Yeah, I don't know. What was going through my mind is I, again, made more or less at home. You tell me I think about it. And through your thoughts. I don't know where I sit on the taggery.   Maybe let's say 5 years of the timeline when   you need to see that, like, kinda   full blown working and then interact again. I'm thinking people that I watch or listen to   in various as an example.   If you   interacted with something like that and said, Yeah, I'm gonna go live on AM.  

I could see myself getting behind like, Oh, yeah, I'll change some things around. I'll listen to it live. That seemed like an interesting thing.   But   would that change   if   the ability to create my own podcast with him talking about whatever the hell I want, whatever topic I want   becomes on demand whenever I want it, AI usage?   I   don't know which one which one beats like a part of me right now would say, I think the live beats it because   it's the actual person and it's connecting and so   maybe it's like gap where how old do you have to be where that actually   matters versus doesn't matter anymore if   the you know the creation ai is so brutally   you know realistic that you almost can't tell the difference between what's being generated and what you're seeing live   like what is the difference   I kind of go.  

My   gut tells me Yeah, that could be interesting.   And then my head tells   me I feel like it will quickly get over on. I still wonder if people will do that, man.   People lazy. Do you?   There's quite a few podcasts out already that are just AI generated. No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about  

[00:51:16] Kyrin Down:

me as a listener,   creating the podcast, even if it's only   a paragraph,   I want to see Tim Ferriss talking with   this guy.   And I want it to be centered around these 5 topics.   And I want it to be this length.   I'm not  

[00:51:33] Juan Granados:

not sure people will do that. I don't think no, I don't think people would do that. And why wouldn't they do that? Because you generally when you go and consume a piece of content,   you're doing it because of being posted by the person that you want to listen to.   Random different one, Nick Bae on YouTube specifically,   I don't know what he's going to post next. I can tell you like a general guidance what he will do, but I will go and watch them for a couple of things. 1, the cinematography is like awesome, really good, doing the topic is fitness and the like, kind of cool. Some of the other stuff, I just kind of skip over, but I'm not necessarily   expecting or knowing what he's going to post about, but it's generally interesting what he posts about. I kind of see it more on the other end of,   if the availability of using AI to create whatever you want from it comes from, it is less,   I think less, although you do have the ability, but it's going to be less you   going and looking for it and like being like, I want to see this happen   as opposed to the creator   creating   what they want and what the maybe the learnings or the insights or whatever needs to be and creating the show for it to be done. So I guess I'll put it this way, if in 5 years you could either sit down   live on the camera   and   talk about whatever topic for 45 minutes and then interact   for 15 minutes with people afterwards. Now that I'm not saying   that interaction, like live interaction, maybe there's like a ridiculous amount of value there for people because there is, you know, I paid extra money to go see Chris Williamson   in person. So Twitch and I talked to him. So there's that, however, if,   if you and it's not gonna be everyone, but if you could rather than do live for 45 minutes, you could or in   3 minutes create what looks like a live version   of you talking about the exact same topic delivering in the exact same way.  

And then there's no differentiation, but 2 of them is they are part of,  

[00:53:30] Kyrin Down:

well, what's the point of doing? I don't think people will go for that. I think they'll yeah. The draw of the live is exactly this. We received some live boost just now on. Okay. So,   chat f, he says, I'm lurking on YouTube. You got me with the clickbait title or just chat. I had to great discussion about BTC and V4V so far.   111   sent using Podverse.   And then he also just said just move your stats from Albi to the fountain for the time being another one on one.   So thank you for that chat. Much appreciated. Much appreciated.  

[00:54:01] Juan Granados:

Glad but it is it is this it is this interaction of life that   that will still,   I don't see that, well, look,   I don't see that aspect being overtaken by AI because AI is probably going to be doing other things, but there is going to be some inherent value in the actual connection with the other human being   that would become valuable. So, maybe taking it back,   like you said, is   there value in the live? Yes. So, I think   it's going to go kind of like to the 2 extremes.   Me creating pre recorded content   is going to become   less   valuable, let's say and then talk about value and the value is going to be more on demand live stuff or just generated content that I can   create for later consumption, it'll be kind of like either end. Yes! So life would be   hyper unique, hyper personalized,   you're talking to us and it's a direct individual   and then there's the I can now create,   I can   200 videos per week,   AI generated with my influence.  

And so it's still coming from me, but it's whatever I want you to see and stuff like that. So it's going to be that those 2 extremes. I agree. Yeah, you're not going to  

[00:55:14] Kyrin Down:

be manually sitting and editing.   Shit as like   it feels like you're sorting through shit at times, especially when I was doing the book reviews and I was cutting out all these things to try and make it as clean and crisp as possible, which I don't do anymore.   That felt like just wading through.   It was annoying. I didn't I didn't enjoy that editing process. So yeah,   I was more saying if, if people are saying this is a live show, and it's just a AI   thing doing something   kind of semi live.   I'm not sure people will   be on board with that. I think they'll   call that stuff out pretty quickly and be like, no, no, no.  

So yeah, that's kind of that's kind of a little sidetrack that we just had there in life, but more live in the future. We talked about that recently.   So the final thing I just wanted to talk about   was, I guess, our value for value ask that we want to do with people. So   podcasting 2.0   The thing they say it's about protocols and not products. So they're just trying to create an a framework   so that anyone can jump in and create something, which is how you get   behemoths   of,   of market slash industries, you know, the App Store is like this. Anyone can create anything on there.   There's more restrictions, I guess now, but   it's still, you know,   the the work is being done by other people to create awesome apps. And Apple and Google are just benefiting from that.  

And so   we're definitely on the product side of things, where we're creating the content and the show.   And so   what would be like, and this is getting to I guess is V for V   about to die on the mere mortals probably should have included that in the in the clickbait. Sorry, Chad.   Is V for V what do we want to do going forward?   Because we've been doing this for a while now. We've been doing pretty much,   not exclusively through the boost around, but here I've just I've created a list of things that we   could ask for our audience going forward. And   one always likes to ask himself, what are we optimizing for?  

And so some things if we're optimizing for money, you know, probably PayPal would be the best suggestion   if we're opting for   the ease of receiving money and then being able to call them out and having   a community aspect to it, it might be Patreon.   If we were to experiment with the cutting edge, it might be strike like I was mentioning just before.   If we were us optimizing for people to have a useful skill, it could be downloading a wallet and then doing a task with that   a   being able to interact with us.   If it would be optimizing for community   and live access to us, it would probably be joining our Discord.  

If it was betting on us, we'd probably create a token or an NFT.   If we were spreading the word-of-mouth   would be perhaps passing a fact from the show and giving more prompts of like, hey, this is what you could tell someone   you heard on the MIM models.   If it was feedback,   like just pure feedback, it would probably be   creating a post to say like, hey, we're doing a q and a or what's something you'd like to know about this topic that we're going to be covering on next on the episode   tomorrow,   that sort of thing. So   all of those are kind of value for value. And then in essence, maybe not Patreon as much, but   there's a whole lot of things we could optimize for. And so   what would you like to do 1? Do we want to still   emphasize the boost the most? Do we still do we want to cover our bases with time, talent and treasure?  

Would we? Yeah, I don't know. You don't have to answer right now, but something something to think about over the over the next   little while   because we've been doing value for value for a while in the terms of   boosting in particular.   It's going to get slightly harder. You know, Chad, for example, won't be able to do it through Podverse for at least a little bit.   What   would we like to move in another direction? Would we like to change things up? I still like the overall framework of value for value.   That's what has always attracted me to it was going like,   it's kind of like a permission. It's like a release valve, like, oh,   if I'm highlighting that I'm giving value first,   then it's okay for me to ask for it afterwards, because it always   it would have felt weird to me without that framework.  

And,   you know, I'm begging, I'm asking for things   from my audience. I don't want to do that, that sort of thing. Whereas now it's like, Yeah, no, fuck.   Give me something. Yeah, it's not it's not that I deserve it, but fucking have a think about this push.   So   that's kind of one of the things I still would always like to frame it and value for value. But I'm totally willing to change up the ask or highlight different things,   depending on on what we'd like to do together. So just something to think about that.   Will we be pondering with that? Without thought as well, I mean, models. Yeah. Yeah. If you have a suggestion,   reach out to us via   any of the mechanisms I just talked about   and   because they're all they're all down in the show notes basically. And,   yeah, yeah. Hit us up. So value for value. That's that's your value for value task for this week. Give us a suggestion of what   what you would like to   perhaps interact with, if any of those things sound good to you? Like, oh, yeah, I would love to have a bit more input to the show.  

Who was it last week, someone not last week, last night, someone was asking me to do an episode on dogs. I'd love to hear an episode on dogs. Dogs. Yeah. So   we should maybe do an episode on dogs after after the next one. And write that down. And then  

[01:01:11] Juan Granados:

psychology of investing and then Yeah, dogs. Yep.   Okay. That'll be a fun one. That'll be a different one.   It definitely will be. Yeah. Alright. We'll leave it in. Yeah. For those who have tuned in live, appreciate you. Thank you very much, both in the video and in the audio. I should just check if there's any live comments on the We'll see if there's any comments.   But as Karen just brings that up, again,   the the the overall sentiment is,   is Bitcoin going away? No, is the Valley value idea going away? No.  

[01:01:41] Kyrin Down:

Will it take will it still take a while to be   my vision for it is still probably   5 years away.   I don't want to I hate saying that because I thought it would be this year. I thought I   I hoped it would be this year, but I think it's it's gonna be a while away.  

[01:01:58] Juan Granados:

Any comments?  

[01:01:59] Kyrin Down:

Just Cole in the chat and then Lucas Branko as well. Yo, boys. Cole, Lucas, Chad F, Patricia, thank you for joining us. Much appreciated. The Italian I love this. I love this live intro. The Italian word for guys is ragazzo.  

[01:02:14] Juan Granados:

Okay. Ragazzo.   Are you sure?   I don't think he's a ragazzo in my head. He's not sure at all. One of those 2.   Guys, with that with that butchered Italian, we're gonna leave it there. Imola, thank you very much for joining. Thank you very much for being live. Good.   Good. Good.