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Time for Giga big brain ideas on the future of content creation.

In Episode #490 of 'Musings', Juan & I discuss: how creators can monetise their work without diverging into unrelated business ventures, the distinction between spending and investing in creators, why images, audio, and video will be monetised via new technologies in the coming years, the potential impact of AI on the quality and accessibility of content, Juan's fancy formula for creator investing, why the attention economy will end up in measuring consciousness and a whole bunch of other things.

Huge shoutout to Cole McCormick for the support, much appreciated!

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:02:34) Content Creation and Monetisation
(00:06:00) Investing vs Spending on Creators
(00:13:05) Access and Quality in Content Creation
(00:17:47) Commerce-tainment and Live Streaming
(00:23:42) Boostagram Lounge
(00:28:00) Big Brain AI Content Creation and Monetisation
(00:36:01) Technological Trends in Content Monetisation
(00:50:04) NFTs and the Future of Digital Art
(01:00:18) Future of Content Creation and Attention Economy

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[00:00:06] Kyrin Down:

Welcome,   mere mortalites, to another round of the mere mortals musings. We are live here on Sunday,   August 17   around 08:10   a. M. Today.   A little bit earlier than normal. Normally nine a. M. But   always,  

[00:00:23] Juan Granados:

always is a. Moving. We're moving towards being earlier.  

[00:00:26] Kyrin Down:

He's starting to wake up earlier, which is good. So this is true. This is true. I'll have to I'll probably talk about this in the monthly slash yearly goals at some point. Okay. Yep. Amusing's episodes where we pick a particular topic and dive deeper into it, give you the juicy info information   focusing on effective philosophy, things you can take away into your real life.   Today's episode, I'm Kyrin here on this side. Juan on this side. On the other. Didn't already do that. And today's topic is investing in creators.   Now,   I   have been   interested in this idea for a while, so I posted a bunch of videos in our Discord. So if you want the kind of like backup for the. How did you come across, by the way? Tom, Tom Nosc.  

Just YouTube popped up. Okay. So that's so funny because that's the guy   I have no idea of. And I literally wrote in here, I posted another video of a guy, won't bother naming his naming him as his channel is dime a dozen.   So   I guess you  

[00:01:26] Juan Granados:

had searched him before. I had searched him before, interestingly enough. And again, we'll get into the crate. I think it's going to be a little bit more fluid conversation, but I'm fairly certain, let's say I'm 98% sure   he was in the same,   group learning channel or whatever of the school of mastery with Louis Mokka. And Louis attributes him as like one of the persons who taught this guy how to do things. And you can kind of tell the styling and the things.   I came across him, I think by random. He's a Melbourne guy, by the way. And I've he used to be a photographer,   a videographer. That's why it's got a bit more stylistic styling of to his end. Yeah. I've been looking at things more so for the   angles, camera, content creation, more of the quality. I really enjoyed his presentation   style. The content's good. I think I'm wrong. Fine. Dumber doesn't know. Yeah. But the styling and the,   putting things together is good. I like the the style. Sure. And I think it'll fit really nicely into this conversation of investing in creators. Okay. Yeah. Because the video I posted was my most creators are broke and then rents of parentheses  

[00:02:29] Kyrin Down:

how and how to not be and yeah. And how to not be. Okay,   cool. So I'll give it like a   setup for this, which is for the past couple of years, probably like a year after starting the podcast,   I've been   intrigued by this idea of,   content, the kind of merging of content creation and the   I guess monetization is the word. But I don't   like that word to say, like   still being able to focus on what it is that you enjoy creating and digital. I'm talking about digital content creation,   particularly not physical,   without,   and being able to focus   mostly on that without having to go kind of down the side path of,   creating a whole nother business or something around it. So for example, we were talking about Tom, so   his   channel and he was talking about like, I love content creation   is what I do.  

And that video that I just mentioned is all about how you create a whole entire separate fucking business   to monetize from your content creation. So it's based it's his advice was essentially that I got out from this was, okay, so you've got a channel you're creating, you're enjoying it, you're getting some views and stuff. Go create a whole fucking new business and then you can make money. And then this is actually just part of your funnel to get to this whole thing. And I'm like, Woah,   woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, okay, well, yes, that's   advice of some sort, but that's it's   just it's just like telling someone to get a whole new job,   in a way, in a way.  

And so I was going, well, okay, well, that's not   you know,   you're you're essentially going into marketing or business instead of   and you're not   continuing to work on your digital content creation, the thing that you're   drawn to,   perhaps good at, enjoy,   and you're having to   do something entirely different, which   it I understand getting some new skills and some things, but   that is   it just seemed like a really big   jump to me. And so,   I'm I was more interested in things that are   more closely linked to,   how someone can   receive compensation,   monetary compensation for sure. Like   whether it be a lot or enough just to get by or even just a tiny little bit just to cover costs,   how they might do that without having to go to the crazy kind of like marketing business world.  

And so this is,   I see this is linked what he was talking about, which was like consuming or spending   in creators. So   you're consuming a product   or you're spending   to to buy something from them.   And I'm more interested in the   perhaps like,   people who are more looking to invest in a creator   of of some sort. And when I say invest, I mean there's potential for monetary or other upsides for for being the doing that. Yeah. And this is this I'm talking about,   the people consuming content from someone   being able to say like, okay, here's some money   chucking them out of and,   receiving something back from them, which isn't the it's a subtle distinction. Like,   what's the difference between, like,   investing and  

[00:06:06] Juan Granados:

spending? You know, you can you can spend on groceries, but that's not an investment. Yeah. Okay. So there's there's a might go with the concrete examples here because I've got quite a few. And I've got an equation that I was trying to create out of this. I saw that. Yeah. But I want I wanna give you some concrete examples. Maybe the mere mortals at home, listen and see if this,   also attuned to one of these ones. And I wanna check with Karen and how he has because there's an obvious one, which is the value for value model that we've played around with. We've, supported for many, many years, and we continue to do so. Right? You can send through a boost to gram and support us monetarily in that way, but, obviously, you can share the video, the podcast, everything like that that supports. But I'll give you my my real world examples.   One,   I went and, like, I don't do this often. Like, it's very hard for me to part with money unless I'm just being, like, crazy. It's like I've got I've got two things. I will, on a dime I'm very disagree with that. I will, on a dime, go and do some crazy things with money. That's, like,   literally I've done this done this   almost when I purchased a brand new phone just for the fact of like my phone was dirty. I didn't realize it was dirty. But two, I remember one literally one day I was driving on the highway in my golf r light blue, which currently lives in Toowoomba, given that the owner messaged me. And I was driving on the highway. I saw a BMW,   like, on the right hand side, and I was like, I'm buying a BMW today. Took off the highway, went straight to BMW. I was gonna buy an SUV,   and that I actually told someone that I was gonna buy an SUV. I walked out with a sedan sports car. So I can do that but at the other end on like a, more continuous payments, I'm real stingy. Yeah. Why I want to see  

[00:07:40] Kyrin Down:

the price of chicken  

[00:07:42] Juan Granados:

go up and he's like, oh, no, Free range. Yesterday. Yesterday, we finished a run. What's worse than cage eggs? Yesterday. Yesterday, we we finished a run. I went into Woolworths and I was going to buy a banana for my daughter. It was 92¢   when you weigh that and whatnot. And I almost went back and I was like, no, I'm gonna get a free banana for her. Like, what is this? I paid for it. Like, I paid for it. No. So my real world example is one, I did invest $100 per month. It was Australian $100 per month for a,   school of mastery, which is Lewis Marker. And in that example, I invested   direct money to receive   content or advice or things that he put together for sellable course slash   content   that wasn't readily available.  

So the I guess from investing in creative, I'm like, I'm investing in someone's put a business together and it's very, like, acutely content for this business. It's not he did create   some videos and content elsewhere, and I had seen him on social media, maybe kind of like Tom.   And then he structured it together now. So I was directly investing to get   learnings and how some other people had done it and the community around it. After now, I stopped that. So basically, I consumed everything he created and I was the videos just went on on a weekly fortnightly basis. I went, look, I'm not getting the value I need from a 100 per month. Fine. Cool. Happy.   The   sorry. Then I'll give you the Tom Tom Nosk one. So obviously, I believe he's come from the Lewis Moccas side of things. He also has a one of those   brand up products where it's, you know, going to the group of eighty,   second round group of 80 to try and, you know, get $30,000 per month or something to that effect.  

That didn't attract me at all. I'm like, I don't, I don't have enough,   like let's say   goodwill with the individual or care too much about the individual to like make me prompt to go pay. I don't even know, I didn't even look into how much the payment was. Even the content and the quality is all beautiful. I'm not prepared to invest anything in that creator in the sense of I don't need any more return on whatever you're giving me for free. I'm happy. Yeah. It it leans  

[00:09:44] Kyrin Down:

a bit much towards the,   it's not pyramid   or,  

[00:09:52] Juan Granados:

multi. What is it? MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM MLM Marketing. Yeah. Multi level marketing. But it's,  

[00:09:57] Kyrin Down:

I got famous,   you know, like trading   is my trading course.   And so they're selling like course on how to   get famous of creating courses or things like that, you know, where it's like, this is how you create digital content.   I make so much money from creating digital content by selling you a course on how to create digital content. And I was like, well,  

[00:10:20] Juan Granados:

you it's not really digital content that you're famous for. It's selling for something else. Correct. Correct. So it's great. But then but then so those two examples are maybe where it's a more direct slash I don't do it. However,   is the places where   so then here's another one where I still don't invest in creators, even though   they do provide a lot of value for me.   I might so, Nick Behr from my Nick Behr Nutrition,   loads of videos that he pumps out. I watch   basically all of them, write comments on it. I guess that's maybe the way I supported.   Other podcasts out there are content creators, I might share it. But whether it's YouTube or whether it's Patreon or other ways that they can be supported, I don't invest dog diddly crap. So I'm like, in my mind, it's very hard to part ways with any of that money,   but I will help   provide value in sharing it if I do feel like it's valuable. Yeah. I've got a counter example to that, which is Wait. Wait. I'll give you the the final one because it's the the final one and then take take all these examples. Because the final one is I have   invested in a creator purely for the individual,   purely for the brand, purely for the human that they're doing, not for any other reason, and that's Tim Ferris. Yeah. With Tim Ferris I was kinda whether it's NFTs from his side, whether it has the actual direct one is he's got a new book upcoming and he gave the opportunity for people only limited amount. You pay   it's a very, very small amount of money per three months and you just partake in supporting him to do the book. There's   I didn't go into that with any expectation that I was gonna get anything. He did send out some some goodies to people while in that group and you get to see the book being developed, which is kind of nice. I think he also gave, like a Q and A for the people who are in that space by just Mr. Whatever.  

So and in that one, I went I I I don't even care almost to the point of getting the book or getting any goodies. Purely, it's I'm happy to pay this very minimal fee per whatever time domain that it is to impart to him, obviously, doing the, like behind the scenes creation, but for a full support in being like, okay, here's a person amongst   a lot of the other people that I could name that have been,   good influences. I'm like, yeah, I'm willing to give you that money.   Absolutely. And maybe Gary Vee has been the same in going to,   VeeCon and some other formats like that. So that's a whole full spectrum, I guess I was going to say, of investing in creatives   from some direct like learning to like absolutely none. I'm just going to do it to like, okay, there's a some few select ones that I have done that. Yeah. And what I would probably say is the main difference that I just noticed between what you were describing with  

[00:12:56] Kyrin Down:

Tom and Lewis   versus the other two is you're   paying for access to things which aren't readily available. You're you're essentially paying for a gatekeeper,   gatekeep,  

[00:13:10] Juan Granados:

gatekeep,   gatekept, kept,  

[00:13:13] Kyrin Down:

products.   Whereas   if you're creating digital content, I would say   you're doing it for the purpose of putting it out there for people.   So   because I guess it's flipped in a way they're creating digital content to get you to get to a thing. Whereas   when I think of a creator, I'm thinking of someone who's like express   creating   their creative, they're expressing themselves. And so that that by   all Yeah, I get what we're saying, yep, is putting it out for free, you know, Van Gogh and it's not like Van Gogh is like,  

[00:13:48] Juan Granados:

sorry. No. I won't use Van Gogh. I was gonna I was I was I'll I'll I'll put it in this way. I think,   Tom Lewis, so something new. The end goal is increased viewership to get you through the funnel of their payment. Yeah. Whereas maybe the others,   even though it's more of a byproduct,   it's now I'm doing it for the sake of the creation. Yeah. If the byproduct is money, fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. So,  

[00:14:12] Kyrin Down:

I've, I've created a a big brain list. Okay. Yeah. Of things, but I'm going to that's a little teaser. Okay. Big brain list. Oh, after the after the boostgram launch. But so just the two other videos that I posted.   So so getting back to the thing, the, you know, one of the things that I was wondering right at the start was when we   were creating   these videos and stuff and, you know, you're getting into the what is,   what are we doing here? Are people enjoying it?   There's one, you know, five, five views on YouTube,   and, you know, 10 on the audio. Are we doing good? Is this worth it? And I think one of the things that comes up is like, how do I know if I'm creating something valuable? And I guess like how is it measured   the   this is partly a technological   problem,   I feel, and   the rest is on kind of like   creating a good story, learning marketing skills   and, and things like that. So,   I wanted to focus more on the technology side of things,   because you can get sidetracked and that's why I was bringing up Van Gogh, like, you know,   why was Van Gogh   not   valued as a as a creator in his own time?  

And it was only after his death   that he was. And then why is someone did you do you have a do you know who Millie Vanilli is? Yeah, I do. Yeah. So   we're just of the age where like Milli Vanilli was it was a thing.   And I went back and looked recently and essentially for those who don't know, it was a,   a band of two   rather   handsome black dudes with dreadlocks. So I think they were probably like,   I don't know, like,   The Bahamas,   something like that. That feel that's like, well, I'll try to give you a vibe off. Yeah. But it was a German band and they were lip synchas. That was the big, like, controversy. And so they had this really popular album.   They didn't actually sing it. Obviously, they were more just like they were there for their dance moves. They were renowned renowned for that. I was watching a video and I'm like, they're not even fucking dancing good, man. Like, they're literally just too   pretty looking black dudes. This is all I've got going for   them. And that's what we're missing. That's what we're meant. You know, why why were they so highly valued   when there was kind of what you would say is little substance  

[00:16:39] Juan Granados:

behind them? No one plays a Milli Vanilli song nowadays. No. So I'm sure if you listen to this and you're young, you're probably just like, who the hell is this? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So  

[00:16:49] Kyrin Down:

the other two videos that I posted,   there was one from Gary Vee   he talked about and his observation is like there's a wave of what he calls QVCification   once again.  

[00:17:02] Juan Granados:

QVC ication.  

[00:17:04] Kyrin Down:

Show an age here, which is   QVC   was the,   TV. The youngsters at home   was daytime television and they would sell products on there. So it's kind of like is this foldable extendable ladder in the it's kind of got like a host   with a salesman at the same time. And, you know, I used to watch that a thirty minute segment. I watched things of it and then I   would not stick around because it was very just being sold out. I saw just one big ad man. Honestly, I thought I would watch it just for the fun of the way that they presented. Yeah. Okay. Look, there was some there's funny videos if you look at like   a lot of. One of them falling like TVC. Or something There's some funny shit for sure. And they would do it live a lot of the time as well, which is why it was so funny.  

But what Gary say is there's this thing called commerce tainment, which is already very popular in Asia and it's essentially   going live and you're creating   entertainment   while selling a product at the same time. And there's a balance between   how hard you're selling things   and how how hard you're   being entertaining and creating content, I guess.  

[00:18:17] Juan Granados:

Yeah. To give you an example for individuals that there's like the full   superpowers example that's usually seen in like Asia China example where it's just a pretty girl showing an item, kind of throwing it away and people can spend on it. But I have seen now a lot of clips coming out more Western style of   commercial selling where it'll be usually with luxury goods. It'd be the one I've seen is this guy, and he holds up a Louis Vuitton wallet, and he goes   as he talks, the, auction begins in this twenty seconds. And in those twenty seconds, he'll go, you know, wallet is quite rare. Look at this. Oh, Oh, nice colors. Oh, you wouldn't see me walking around with this. And then he, you know, sells after twenty seconds and goes again. The reason I remember it specifically is because he sold my the Burberry shirt that I have. Oh, yeah. I think he sold over, like, $200. And I was like, come on. Come on. What is it? It's like more than that.   But yeah, so like it's sounding, it's definitely something that if you're younger, you've probably seen it before. If you're older than us or same as our age, you probably, it's not something that naturally would come to us to participate in, especially   me. I'm not an online buyer at all. Yeah. It's not something I would participate in. Not by default. Not by default. I'm  

[00:19:25] Kyrin Down:

interested in this space. I'm spending time looking at these things. So TikTok shop is where you see people doing this. I think I would argue that the we got a hint of this with the NPC live streaming a couple of years ago. Very similar deal, live   entertainment   and they're making money from selling something. Now, in this case, they weren't selling a digital product. They were selling   a fucking rose   ice cream ice cream. Yeah,   that sort of stuff. So we're already seeing it. This is coming. It's already here to a certain extent.   And,   you know,   Gary's observation that I linked in there was   a lot of the reason people are buying things in this   isn't because they actually want the product. You're not going to the stream and going like, I actually want this product.  

A lot of times   sometimes it is, but a lot of times people are buying a an item as a kind of subconscious tip for the creator. Like here,   this is here's some money and they're getting a product of some sort,   but they don't actually need it   or perhaps even want it. It's like, I'm going to buy this thing. And   it's a it's a thank you. Sure. Which is other than before.   Yeah, I've done that before.   That's somewhat v for v esque.   In value for value, you don't use the word tip,   because that implies something like of of small value and that if you want to, you can give something much larger.   And,   but yeah, I've done it before with a,   like, a creator and this was back in the day of blogs with Roosh V where I bought his books, his shirts,   just to say thank you for   you for helping me after years of like reading his stuff. You know, I'm never I was never going to do like,   what he had like on in person,   meetups,   things that you could do, like one on one training and stuff like this. But,   you know, I'm here in Australia, he's in The US, that was never gonna happen. So   I don't he maybe had a donation page if you wanted to. But that was one of those ones where it's like, I don't know, I don't want to just like, give him money. But I will give him money if there's like just the smallest semblance of something in return. Sure. A shirt   or whatever. So,   you know, this is,   I've been hinting at this a little bit and it's probably going to remain on the back burner for a while, even though I was   very close to pulling the trigger, which was VeeFriends Down Under. And   I wanted to experiment with this   live commerce tainment idea   of creating a podcast around VeeFriends.  

We're in the shirt right now, the jumper,   and   then having a like a physical store where I would have, you know, some manga cards because I've got a whole bunch of them now or perhaps even, you know, mere model shirts if people wanted to participate in that   and buy from there. And the thing that's actually really stopped me the most was going,   oh, man, the shipping process is going to be a nightmare.   That's that honestly, the logistics of   doing that and shipping from Australia to wherever   that that is extremely tedious. So you're doing the   the once again, it's like you're creating the content, but then there's this additional element of like there's you're going to have to do something on the back end. And if we look value for value is very similar. If you're looking at how Adam Curry does it, they've got a whole thing where it's   if you get to a certain level, you get sent like a parchment and a ring with wax so that you can be a no agenda knight and, you know, put your diploma up on the wall and all sorts of random stuff. So   there's a whole bunch of things which are   not necessarily related to the   content creation,   but   are necessary if you want to   earn some money from it. And this is the same for advertising   as well. So,   yeah, I think we'll   kind of pause it there at the moment and then we'll get into my my big brain   brain.  

Do we have any boostograms for for today? So for those who don't know, boostogram launch, in which case I'm I'm going to start like a new little trend here, which is when we get a, a boost a gram in, I'm going to reward the, the viewers at home with the Chuck's Clos box, beanie as a as a thank you. Thank you. For for sending in a boostgram.   A boostgram, for those who don't know, is a message with money attached to it or vice versa, money with a message attached to it which can send in directly to the show via a podcasting app like Fountain, Cast O Matic, Podverse,   CurioCaster,   places like that, Trufans  

[00:24:30] Juan Granados:

and  

[00:24:31] Kyrin Down:

is a way of expressing some support for the show, meremodelspodcast.com/support.   We want to know how to do that and one's going to bring one up here. The so again,  

[00:24:41] Juan Granados:

on our   stream, it's quite a few streams have come through, say, from the light bloomer actor that have popped up in our boostgram space. So appreciate those obviously listening into that one. We've got Colin Cormick.   Thanks for being on America Plus, Cohen. You guys' content is pure and honest. Keep going and keep doing you. 333  

[00:24:59] Kyrin Down:

sets sent using fountain. Thank you. And he sent that live. And, I I see he's  

[00:25:04] Juan Granados:

got a comment on the stream as well. So I'll read that out shortly. Beautiful. And just on the book review side as well, there's a couple that came through there on the book review side. But again, it's more so a stream than it is. Any comments I appreciate that. Yeah. Let's see him on those. Beautiful.  

[00:25:18] Kyrin Down:

Thank you. And Cole says there's a cultural pull to make content to only sell things. Content for   self expression is called art.   Yeah. We should probably get into that at some point. More people should invest in art.   And Cole actually had a recent,   episode all about art as well. So American Plus, if you want to, actually, he probably did a better job than we could on it because he's, I would say, more artistic than than either of us. For sure. Invested in the arts. He's an artistic cultural. What would you call it? Like,   he's not a critic, but he's a connoisseur.  



[00:25:54] Juan Granados:

Connoisseur. Well, especially when it comes to movies. I haven't I haven't said this to anybody, actually. Whatever you do. So I'll keep it very tight lipped, but,   I won't reveal too much into it. But, speaking of art, we've been making a little bit of money, making art here in this household. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a digital art, of course, using all the tools that you'd imagine to use. And we're making some some nice little money on the side week to week. This was not initiated by me. It was initiated by my wife.  

[00:26:22] Kyrin Down:

And I was like, oh,  

[00:26:24] Juan Granados:

she told me about it. I went, that's I don't think people are gonna buy it.   Dude,   people are buying it. It's pretty amazing. It's just little digital creations. But I'm like, that's really cool. Is it worth talking about here or is this kind of? Nah, I'll keep I'll keep it tight, Lib. I'll I'll I'll off offline. I'll demonstrate to Karim what it is. Okay. And you will be amazed that people are paying for it. I'm telling you, it would be amazing. I'll keep it tight. All right. Sweet. I funnily enough, I  

[00:26:50] Kyrin Down:

am just about to order some frames. And,   when I was at the Hoskie Summit, I received three of the,   kind of 30 centimeter by 30 centimeter   spray paint, Hoskie.   I don't know art, which is kind of like   it looks like the NFT,   the original cash grabs. And I'm going to get three frames which,   mirror the frames that you can get of the actual cash grabs and and put them on the Yeah. I can I can I can appreciate it? I can I've got an original,  

[00:27:22] Juan Granados:

from my original V friend series one,   so you see lion   print out in a frame, not in the frame. It was in a canvas that they did that they sent out to everyone. So I've got one of those and I've got the series like the first V con, you know, plaque of being at the location we just seen before. And it's like a real nice thing. I can appreciate that. For sure. Which one does not display? He hides that somewhere, I believe. Correct.  

[00:27:45] Kyrin Down:

Okay. Very much appreciated. Thank you, Cole. And everyone else who is participating   in supporting the show. It's,   does make a big difference. Let's go into the big brain. All right. So here we go. There's more digital content creators, especially AI versions, coming.   How will these be monetized in general?   And,   I'm going to go absolutely left curve on this. Okay.   With the,   and then go giga brain right curve on the other side. So   it's related to attention economy and is kind of two two parts of this as the economy part and the attention part.   And so,   I guess just a broad question before I go into my ideas.  

Digital,   AI content creation   that's coming is going to be a wave of that. How do you think this will be monetized? What   in terms of just like any general trends you think might happen?   Will it still stay the   similar to how we see things now with a lot of advertising,   some   patriot patronage like Patreon,   beef of e type things?   Would there be perhaps a new method of,   of them?   Or and when I say them, I'm meaning like a I with perhaps a person behind it, you know, because there's   we certainly don't have the AGI  

[00:29:08] Juan Granados:

agents running around doing their own thing yet. So I guess I'll I'll summarize it. You're probably using that equation because it kind of partakes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Give us the equation. Because the return on generosity,   right? The return on generosity is going to be the difference in quality, the difference in access, difference in meaning.   They'll all add them all up divided by the latency, a k, how often is. So what does that mean from an AI perspective? Quality,   they're all gonna be run to a race to the bottom in the sense or top, if you wanna call this, where the quality is gonna be just basically the same. Everyone's gonna have the availability to create the same quality level of things. So between   the highest end to the lower end   in a couple of years time, maybe months time, who knows, everyone's gonna have the ability to create cinematic, perfect, beautiful things. Okay. So then the quality is the same. One part, two, access. Okay. That's where it starts getting a little bit different in that if it's   gated access or you have to be part of a community or something, I can see that there's a difference in return and generosity if it's a cam only making this available to 200 people and there's some other background to it. Alright. That makes it different,   and meaning, which I guess is the is the biggest piece on this, which is,   again as more content and it's going to be a content explosion of things that are out there.  

I think it's going to become less meaningful   in what is being outputted, even if it is   fairly unique content that is being AI generated.   It'll just become such an abundance   that   it'll be   maybe the bits that will have more internal generosity are the ones that have more meaning to you, and that's either because it's customizable. So if the someone creates an app out there that, like, kind of like Netflix but it's   using AI and you just generate   whatever you want to watch, there's probably a lot of meaning because it's meaningful to you or some entertainment to you. Right? So those three things and then latency is going to be, well, again,   AI side of things. It's just gonna be as quickly as things can be created, it's gonna become even faster and faster and faster. So when I look at that, you know, and you ask me a question, you know, how are we gonna be monetizing? I think the   problem with the AI content and everything,   Avalanche that's about to come, is it's going to reduce   probably people's wanting this to share value   around it because there's just gonna be such abundance for it. But the only thing that's gonna be different is gonna be, okay, access or, like, gating it in some form or meaning. And I think the meaning bit, I'll probably get into a little bit later, is where I think the differentiation is gonna have to be needed. Otherwise, you're just gonna get   in the swarm of AI content that gets generated. So Mhmm. Someone says, yeah, how how might I'm sure there's loads of different ways, but I just think the default   is is going to take   a lot of   people who create content and monetize it in some various ways and just going to avalanche that completely and just whitewash everything. There's going to be so much content that people are going to go, well, why am I paying for anything given that I can now get it for basically free? Yeah. Yeah. It's  

[00:32:03] Kyrin Down:

an interesting one. So   the quality,   I guess I'm   I'm more of the opinion that   you're I think you're right. And there's gonna be such an avalanche of things that   whilst there will still be a premium on like   human only,   I think there's some people who will still be like, I only want it if it's a human, you know, that that I'm watching or listening.   The   that will be a small niche and that the   AI kind of wave   will be the larger portion, especially as you mentioned, like the quality.   If you compare like us to   how we are now, we've got big ass   lights over here,   two stands come out. You know, we're able to see ourselves on the count on the on the video. On the video now in two different ways.  

Got multiple cameras. There's another camera around it for a backup, all this sort of stuff. If you'd talk to us like five years ago, it would have been like, holy shit, that's a lot of stuff, man. That's, you know, if you've gone all out like that, the quality wise   is   much more extreme.   If you   don't need that, if you can get away without having all of this shit, man, I would be very happy   not not having all of this stuff.   So,   you know, competing against the version of us which has all of this and then extra lighting that makes us look extra better or whatever   that is not   physically possible for us. Yeah, I think I think that makes sense. And there will be a lot of that coming. Once again, there'll be a human niche, but probably the AI wave. Yeah, it will. So the quality I definitely agree with,   the access part.  

I think that's going to get into the kind of technology aspect, which I'll get into in a second.   And the story part, which I   intentionally neglected   before in terms of like the Van Gogh versus Milli V Milli,   I think that's going to be   hugely, hugely important and probably more important than   almost more important than the   content creation itself.   So yes, you'll   be perhaps typing or talking into   your thing saying like, Hey, I want this type of video to be created and it's going to look like this or the people will discuss these types of things or you know, whatever it is, the art will look like this.   The that'll still be important, of course. But I definitely see   more effort being put into, Okay, how can I create a story around this which is intriguing? Like, how can I make my eyes   do something unexpected, for example? I think that's going to be one of the things that'll   be a differentiator   of   good AI versus bad AI or interesting AI versus uninteresting   is that you'll have ones which which fuck up or do something unexpected. You're like, oh,   this, you know, the Coca Cola brand,   I just did something crazy. Like, that's, that's fucking wild.  

And so the story behind things, I think, will be really interesting. And what was the last one? The latency. Yeah. Latency. So basically just how often the content can be generated. Because again, you could be absolutely amazing, but if you do it once a year, like, every channel in general is going to be pretty hard to manage. Yeah. And that that that could be an interesting one as as well. That probably gets more into the story as well, I think, which is if you've got   a one big release a year, so you can create some hype around that versus you have the ability to create infinite content with these things more or less,   then.  

Yeah. What kind of schedule do you want to put things out on? Because if you just got like, every   single minute, yeah, crap coming out,   then   that might not be the best strategy for   gaining an audience, keeping an audience, that sort of thing. So, the technology   technology aspect, there's the there's the   there's kind of the left curve aspect of this, which is the economy part for me. So   there are enough examples now I think of,   how technology is being used across different formats,   formats of content creation that I feel   reasonably confident.  

I'd say like   72%   confident   that this is kind of the   types of ways that people will be making money from this from content creation for the   I say like the next five years. Five years. Okay. I feel is a different, decent time, time span. So for   images and short GIFs.   So   this is more. Yeah. Those those static,   static   visual things.   I think NFTs are the way.   So when I'm thinking of this, I'm thinking of things like   pretty much the art that you might see in a in a museum, but in a of a digital form. I think that's that's going to be even more   so.  

This can kind of come into things like   funding,   community access,   like I said, art. So   I followed this guy called Cooper Trooper for a while, and he was really trying to,   do this for music. And it didn't work well. Like he was creating   his an NFT of this, this audio of this music, and he had a whole platform for it. And I've watched him over the past couple of years and I was always going like, I just don't think this makes sense for the music. And I, I tested around. I don't think I ever bought any, but I've, I've certainly played around on this platform and it just didn't make sense to me. And he's, he's kind of pivoted and switched to something new. Okay, so I'll talk about something as well. There was a version of this for Cardano as well, like a music thing called Noom.   As far as I can tell, it hasn't really worked.  

And even movies, documentaries,   the Ethereum   documentary on Vitalik,   for example,   wasn't   created as an NFT. That's not how they monetize that. What they did was created an NFT for like funding.   And I think we've seen a lot of this if we look at like the V friends and, and things like this, a lot of this was like,   Hey, I'm going to create an NFT.   This is a funding mechanism.   Tim Ferriss did this for Cockpunch,   which was exclusively like this is purely funding his site a thing.   If something else comes out of it, that's, you know, a bonus   and should be viewed pretty much as a donation.  

The community aspect you mentioned Vicon and   the artistic ones, things like X Copy, for example, he creates digital art and he sells that as an NFT. So images, short gifts, I think that's the the technology path going forward. That's that's how you make money. Okay.   For audio, I think it's going to be the streaming and micropayments.   That's that's kind of   the way I see that going. So this is very much for I,   I believe this is how music will end up   like I mentioned with Cooper Trooper, he was he was doing it for music and it wasn't working so well.   The I think it's shown   to be working decently well for   podcasting   so far   as   other ways of doing it. Of course, the ad reads and all that sort of stuff. But   I think it makes sense for me that   audio,   like pure audio experiences, it will go to the   streaming micropayments,   boostograms,   that sort of thing, whether they're called that.  

I don't know, I   still have the   idea that someday   a Spotify type thing will be like you pay a subscription or even subscriptions kind of come into this where it's like, it's a subscription,   but it gets broken into   who you're actually listening to directly versus at the moment. If you subscribe to Spotify,   most of your money is going to Taylor Swift and,   who's the Sabrina Carpenter.   And even if you're really into tool or to   niche   band like the door falls, for example,   none of my money would be going to them if that's who I was listening to on Spotify. So,   yeah, we'll see what happens with music. That's that's going to be interesting. But I think that's shown to work for for podcasting,   for text.  

So this is kind of the   blogging   type digital content creation.   I think this is going to be coins.   So we're seeing this,   the meme coin craze,   I don't think was actually about the picture. I think it was about the text because people would always talk about like, you know, what's the ticker? It's Pepe.   It's not when when they're talking about like the meme coin. Sure. There's the image, but   it would always be with the ticker.   And   I feel that's just a version of what   people have been doing.   It's   it's it's hard, but I would say that was a text based thing.   I'm very interested to see what will happen with this Zora   protocol that's being developed on on base, which is   every,   every post is a is a coin essentially.  

And this is getting into the investing side of things. And   there'll be some interesting dynamics. I think some of it will work, some of it won't,   where essentially what happens for those who don't know is,   you   put a post up   and large by and large, it's it's kind of like a Twitter   loan type deal. So it's mostly going to be text   with perhaps a an audio   or an image   or a video.   But by and large, it's text.   And that will be created as a,   a coin.   1,000,000,000   of your whatever post it is, is,   is,   created. You get 1% as the creator and then the rest goes into   being able to buy from your community or something like that. And so   the idea is that people will invest in that post as like, Oh, that thing's gonna go viral, I'm gonna buy now early and perhaps sell later.  

Or perhaps it's the   another kind of subconscious tip to the creator of like, oh, that was really interesting. Like,   you know, if I like it's it's also   the equivalent of buying   $10.10   coins of this thing. I don't know.   But I think that's, that's probably going to   happen and I think that's probably how it'll work for text.   Okay.   And then the other one, So other two, I guess I'm splitting video up into two here is   a live video.   The comment statement makes sense to me,   perhaps with a dose of all the others because,   I looked at the pump fun live streaming,   for example, another   recent   I don't know if you call it innovation, but it's mixing a   investing   a gambling   slash investing platform with   the live streaming aspect. Yeah.  

And that has the   kind of gambling on the attention part that and,   TikTok NPCs, they have the interactivity   Twitch and Kik still have donations.   So   that kind of how it works on on those types of live streaming. But,   certainly the,   ability to   buy something directly within the stream, I think is the, the way that goes. And then static video is just fucking cooked.   I don't see   how any of that is going to change.   It'll probably stay the same way for a long time.   YouTube, for example, I've I try to verify this,   because I've heard this many, many times is that,   YouTube doesn't,   as a entity doesn't show how if they're profitable or not. They don't say like, what's the revenue and expenses for the YouTube as an entity? Google doesn't show that   alphabet.  

And,   there's been questions for a long time of like, is YouTube actually profitable? Do they make money from that? Or is this simply a way of   gaining data that they can then use for other services or something else? And   I asked I I asked chat GPT and it was saying that they they are but I don't know how it came to that because I don't believe there's any,   physical,   you know, reports   coming out from these companies or financials coming out on exclusively YouTube.   But the main thing there is like I think the advertising model will still probably be the   the thing that,   is  

[00:44:56] Juan Granados:

is for me driving it for it. Yep.  

[00:44:59] Kyrin Down:

It was for TV.   You know, there was the on demand kind of aspect, I guess, of,   of Netflix, which use subscriptions.   You know, perhaps subscriptions are a model there. But yeah, the technology side for video just seems   I'm not   sure consumer behavior is going to be that different. Like if you're watching a movie, for example,   or, many YouTube videos are like that nowadays where it's,   a thirty minute long   kind of documentary   piece type thing.   You're not wanting to be like interacting with it, like, oh, I'm going to like click here and I'm going to be donating here. I'm going to.   Yeah, yeah. And I feel like a lot of especially YouTube is   I'm looking for stuff.  

My brother and I were doing some cornices, the rooms here.   I don't see it in the back, but just like the top between the corners. Yep. The wall and the ceiling you're putting in that   little piece of of wood or it's not wood, but   the corners   and just   the houseware and it's so fucking janky, man. There is this   the laundry has   four walls and you think like, oh, ninety, ninety, 90,   not four, ninety degree angles. No, there's two ninety degree angles. And then there's one which is like   62 degrees and one which is like 138   or whatever. Okay. 128.  

And   we had no idea how to fucking cut these pieces of wood to,   get them   flush and level. And so we were looking up some random dude on YouTube who was explaining like, oh, yeah, you know, if you got your   buzz saw or whatever, you   have to do this. And then because it's   a wider angle, what you actually need to do is like put this other 90 degree thing in. And so it was just like this whole complicated thing   I didn't want to it was very helpful. I did not I was not invested in that creator. I did not care about, you know, donating to him or anything like that. And that's where probably advertising is   makes sense to me. It's like, all right, well, he's got a whole bunch of random people tuning in.  

Yeah. If each of them   pays with their time and attention rather than direct money, that that kind of makes sense to me. So yeah, those are a couple of ideas of my   the economy part of where I think   these think things might be going. True. Okay. Okay. I think,  

[00:47:29] Juan Granados:

apart from the live streaming piece, I think I kind of disagree.   Not not too much disagree. Like, I guess part of it. No, I'll put it this way. I think that you're on the money, but it's not   on the money. As in, if you listen to this, I reckon you're going to find that it only applies to like 10% of the population.   So   kind of like as an example for the static, like the static image and GIF,   I think as the next five years you can make, you can't for sure make some money from the utilization of NFTs.   But is that going to be the predominant way? How are you guys doing it? Not not through NFT. Like not that it's just pure direct to consumer digital product. And I think   that so I think buying a website or something? Correct. And so I think through that format, it's   you you're going to have that. There's a lot of percent of the population who are going to be willing to still transact. I'm talking you said five years still transact in the very normal means.  

Then again, has NFTs become easier to purchase?   In some ways it has for   a select few of individuals who've played around in that space.   But   even the existing people, maybe, who have existed in the space of NFTs   have kind of moved away from it in some way, shape, or form.   Even talking about, like, Gary Vee.   They're putting a lot of effort that he's got a bigger play but obviously on physical stuff and the creation of cartoons and a few other things.  

[00:48:50] Kyrin Down:

Well, I don't think that his play is oh the nft is the core it's part of the bigger play. And I think I disagree with that. Yeah, I think the whole thing for him was these are meant to be the ultimate collectible. That's the like   he's creating stories and things and he's using digital  

[00:49:09] Juan Granados:

means to do that. For, for, for the NFTs.  

[00:49:12] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, I think that's  

[00:49:14] Juan Granados:

the I don't like whole point of them. Yeah. Where I see it, I see it more as  

[00:49:19] Kyrin Down:

the like these NFTs were created. He didn't start creating the characters and all of the   movies, movies, the   cartoons,   the trading cards and stuff and then do the NFTs later. No, correct. But I think here is like NFTs came first.  

[00:49:35] Juan Granados:

And   in the end, though, they're going to be a part of a   cornerstone, let's just say, but   the way that he might build that out might not be the oh, yeah. But it's the NFTs. You know, I think it's more like, okay,   broadly, it might be, yes, I wanna be able to get kids from the beginning to like the product and then interact in the product   ecosystem. And that might be videos and toys and NFT might be a part of that. Well,  

[00:50:00] Kyrin Down:

this is the order I'd put things   and there's probably the same for most content creators. They want to   express something, show something   or influence people in some sort of way. So Gary Vee, he wants to get across the values of kindness, tenacity, accountability,   all of the fucking two fifty characters.  

[00:50:21] Juan Granados:

Then I'd put like the NFTs below that and then it's the how he's actually going to do that in terms of. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And maybe, maybe, maybe can't close it here. And I guess I don't see it in the way that he's building out the it seems the the ecosystem play. But but even then, so like to the NFT, like, again, Sadikim would just give, I think you are right. Yes.   Money can be made in that format. I don't think it's gonna be of any significant increase   in comparison to   so many other ways now that are going to come. So again, I've seen direct examples of just direct to consumer   with technology increases,   aka AI,   there's going to be   a whole bigger   portfolio of the market who are going to want   whatever that's unique to whatever they request, that will become so much easier for creators to do that. So I'm telling you right now, if you look into the space, I'll be semi specific,   look into the space where you create content that is unique to someone who is sort of a maybe slightly older generation that can't participate or utilize that technology,   you'll make bank. Like there is people making bank in that space. And I reckon even that market alone would be bigger than NFT playing around just because there's a bigger proportion of people who play in that space. But it's not to say that That sounds like a service, though. So you're talking about you're creating something for someone. So they're buying something. Correct. Correct. Right. But it's like a static image or a GIF. But this is what I'm  

[00:51:47] Kyrin Down:

and that's different. I would say that's that's your   that's a service that's more along the lines of like the Lewis Mokka type thing. And I'm imagining more someone who's   like, this is I'm creating something for,   you know,   expression in some sort of way. Okay. So like Cole was saying,   you know,   does what we're doing here fall under the definition of art?  

[00:52:13] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I guess my so yeah. I I get where you're coming from. My so then, say, I'll I'll guess personally and guess me and more lads. Feel free to comment on this for me when you listen in afterwards. My view is when it comes into   NFTs for pure art, and I guess maybe that's where I'm more   not on the side, I guess, maybe like how Cole is mentioning. If I saw an NFT now of whatever,   I'm I'm I'm just just about never gonna buy something for the art ever. Like that's not gonna happen unless it's a physical thing, unless it's physical. Digital, there's just no way. In the in the pure sense of like, okay, I'll just create it myself   in either technology or copy it. If VeeFriends was today serious again,   there's zero chance I'm buying anything art related. I'm buying it purely for oh, it's brings attention,   but for other reasons, I mean. So maybe that's where I'm coming from it as opposed to, you know, if if   16 year old today says I'm   a really good creator and like good image creator   and I'll use tools to create like a really cool image and I'll make an NFT of it.  

I reckon fat fucking chance unless you got a way to get the eyeballs on your product.  

[00:53:22] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that that gets into the attention part, which is,   the next bit that I had here. So   the   attention economy. So   this is the giga brain super big idea. Okay. Yeah.   And so if you remember when we were going down to Kangaroo Points, the cliffs. Yep. For some reason, I have no idea. I can't remember why we were going down so long ago now, Why we were recording down there rather than at Southbank. Maybe it was just easier for some days. I think it was sometimes  

[00:53:55] Juan Granados:

easier for where we parked at the car spot and it was at the end of the cliffs and then we would just walk to the right. I don't know why we wouldn't have gone to the south. Yeah.  

[00:54:03] Kyrin Down:

Maybe maybe maybe when they were at the time they got kicked out.   And we were waiting anyway.   There was an episode there   and. Good Halloween,  

[00:54:12] Juan Granados:

When you were dressed as Dora?  

[00:54:14] Kyrin Down:

Or. It could have been.   I can't remember which one it was, but there was this idea I had back then and it stuck with me, which was   when we're all neuro linked up,   when we,   you know,   let's say we've got proof of humanity with world coin or some bullshit like that,   iris scans.   And   I think   consciousness someday can be measured in some sort of form. At the moment, we've got,   you know, we just we know there's a qualitative difference between   myself and an ant,   hopefully.   And then we can also say to probably some other people where it's like, okay, you know, the guy with IQ   85   and is   very just like slow,   AKA friend Joseph,   compared to,   you know, some of with an IQ forty   one forty.  

Joe is still probably less than the guy with IQ 40.   The one forty, I think you can still say like, okay, the consciousness of the one forty person is probably   stronger,   more   flowing   than someone with 85. I feel that's   a the   I feel that's an accurate statement to say   the   no no questions of like   differences in terms of how they should be perhaps treated humanity wise and human rights and things like that. But I think consciousness wise, I'd say that person is, is, is, the one forty guy is more conscious. And you could do this with all sorts of things, like the person who's like in the nine to five job   fucking slaving over like doing the same repetitive task versus like perhaps someone who's super creative or spiritual or something like that. I'd say consciousness   is different between them and someday   I'm hoping,   I'm thinking it'll be measured.  

So, you know,   when that comes,   there'll be some sort of token   that is streamed continuously   to where attention is,   is pointed.   And so this is where I'm getting into like, you know, this is the full,   imagine the Futurama   type world Wreck It Ralph when they get into the Internet, if you've seen that the metaverse   digital world of fucking mayhem where it's just shit flying everywhere,   how do you know like how how could anyone,   have any sort of value attached to things and things like this? I think it's going to be  

[00:56:47] Juan Granados:

measured and distributed via consciousness and AKA where your attention is directly. Yeah. I I go what you're saying. I got what you're saying. I think I think I I get where you're coming from. I think it's just it's too complex for it to be a reality in that. Yeah. I think I think that's fine. I'll borrow I'll borrow something. I'll borrow something similar. It's I think   it's, what will happen.   This is my Kurzweil prediction style from Juan is   yes, there will be tokens.   It'll be the transition to tokens.   Now, will that be Bitcoin?  

You know, in this Atoshi format, will that be something else? I don't know. But   I could very well see a future twenty years from now where AI progresses to such a point that we've gone beyond general intelligence to superintelligence   to the point that, you know, for 95%   of work, you don't need to do it anymore. There's just so much efficiency in the market and economy   that you don't really need to. And at that point, you could have governments or companies, don't know exactly how that might be structured, but everyone gets a set amount of tokens per year because just the economy is going so like it's just money basically becomes meaningless at that point, money. And so you just have tokens and the tokens get you things and you can pull tokens together to go do different things with different people, just like you might invest, or you could just use it to live out your life and then you can, as usual, go and do Delta more things to provide value to get tokens in the return back. What those tokens look like and   weirdly, I think this is where I'm slowly transitioning to a Maxi. I'm like, I don't see any, why would you use anything else but Bitcoin? That's kind of like my mentality at that point. It's like, why in the fuck would be using anything else   if that is the underlying use for this particular   tech?  

Yes. I can see the use of like Ethereum or something else where it's like programmable and you start seeing changes.   However,   part of me goes so like the value that many years ago looking into all of these, okay, it's programmable and you can really identify who is doing these things.   I I started going, well, I don't know if that's actually as valuable as I recall it once upon a time being. Because, yes, it would be interesting to know that, hey, this is being created by this particular person. Now that I think about it again in fifteen years,   is anyone gonna give a shit? Like, will a kid growing up like it will my daughter growing up say 15 years old? Because, there's been questions to   teenagers, I think, is what? I can't remember where I heard this, but I reckon there'll be people here listening to this who will believe it's true that I honestly   I disagree with. Like, I would be like, what? Is this serious? But I heard it. And it was   Kittle being asked, like, oh, you know,   this particular content that you're watching or whatever, actually, it's fake or it's being AI generated. And they basically, their answer was, well, I don't actually care if what I'm watching or interacting with is true of a lie or AI   as long as I'm entertained, as long as it's capturing my attention. I think we'll just move more towards that where   I would have said, maybe I still hold my that inside of going,   you know, that technology to be able to know that this is coming from the genuine person and it's coming from me and it's realistic. Oh, that's gonna be valuable.  

I thought maybe even I'm challenging myself going, yeah, but is it really? Like, it's gonna be to our existing generation because we value that. But if in the coming generation, the value is and I just wanna be entertained. I don't actually care that this is real or not real. Will the human element really become that formidable? Let's let's do this as a topic for next week. Like,  

[01:00:12] Kyrin Down:

I don't know what we'll call it, something like life in 2100  

[01:00:15] Juan Granados:

or something. And Okay. Will humanity be valuable?   Yeah. But but I think on on your right brain, I do I do think that, yeah, I do agree and see that in some way, shape, or form,   some tokenization   either given by larger entities or through some way of just your like the the way that you spend time and effort that's just where your tokens go and the people   just consume them, you know, uptake them and it just goes around in the ecosystem. Yeah, I could see that functioning that way. Well, yeah. There's the giga brains,  

[01:00:44] Kyrin Down:

AKA, like, fucking delusional   sort of shit that we're talking about. But they, So in the end, what what does that mean for us? Wait. So,   yeah. My little sum up here.  

[01:00:54] Juan Granados:

Like, what what does that mean for us? What would what are we changing about what we do there? On what we do. Based on all of this?  

[01:01:01] Kyrin Down:

Well,   so live video is, like I said, what what we're kind of doing here. Well, we do a bit of everything that because we've got the audio, we've got the live video.   I guess we'd I wouldn't really say we've got the images. Once upon a time when I was much more   motivated, I was creating all those, you know, unique images   so that that would have been, ticking off that box. We'll take that away now. So,   the   the live video aspect,   judging from my thing, we should be doing commerce payment. That's what we should be doing here. And honestly, like, it's not   that hard to integrate in with what we're doing now. Like, we probably could just have like phone up on the stand here.  

And,   you know, the mere model shirt that you're wearing, for example, we, we, I, I neglected to mention it today, but you send in a boost of a certain x amount, 100,000   sets, and you can get a mere mortals t shirt, not this one, but one similar.   That's not hard to   integrate into this what we're doing right here. And then we could also have like the, you know, just general shop  

[01:02:11] Juan Granados:

of Mii models beanie or something. We created something like that. Yeah. I just got Yeah, I get I get where you're coming from with that. I get where you're coming from with it.   My default assumption and this is just like, there's not us. This is   me and everyone, but it like literally any creator bar maybe like one. If they did that, I would just be like, I don't give a fuck. I just I'm here to watch the con in fact, I would just skip it and give if there was like a session where I was like, oh. You don't watch live video though.   Watched it this morning. Hated it. What did you watch? Alex Tomozi was doing his $100,000,000   new book launch. Huge heaps of people, heaps of people buying it. He marketed the fuck out of it. It was from 2AM this morning. I got up at about four, so I was watching Particle, so we're still going. Watch for fifteen minutes, bored bottom of my mind. I was like, this is shit. He had he had but even this is the crazy thing. He had guest speakers, which is kinda, like, maybe even better than sometimes stuff he does.  

It's similar to the content that he created. He was giving away this freaking books for free, you know, to certain people doing the things. And I couldn't give a rat's ass about interacting,   on the comments,  

[01:03:17] Kyrin Down:

whatever. But that's just you.  

[01:03:19] Juan Granados:

Correct. Correct. Yeah. And I'm like, is it is it, there was a lot of people on the on the live. Yeah. I bet that was. Is it a problem that maybe if it was like five people that would have enjoyed it more because there would be more direct?   No. I actually think what I genuinely   think is   it was   too high   quality Okay. For being live. And I'll and my only default thing would be, like, I would have like, I would I fucking hate this high quality. No. It was in the sense of, like, it was live. Yes. But it was just, like, live as if you're watching a TV show live. Yeah. And and then between that, like okay. So between if you tell me, oh, you can watch a TV show live or you can watch it just delayed whenever you want. Mine says I'll just watch it whenever I want at my own convenience.   But if it was really just, like,   not rough, but, like,   raw, real,   it was just something doing a video of whatever, talking about some particular thing that's meaningful to them, and maybe they they didn't repost it again anyway. And it was like, oh, okay. Cool. I might tune in and and listen to this. That's the only thing personally that I could see myself   interacting with it live. I just   I I again, there's just myself. I mean, more lights. Please tell me There's just If I live in this one, like If I recorded my book review, like, like, the the book reviews I do, if I recorded them live versus   prerecorded them and then reposted them. Yeah. If I'm a watcher of that or like as an audience member,   the way I'm creating them right now, I don't care if it's live or non live. I guess is the way I'm thinking at it. Well, if I me too, actually. I don't I don't care. The only reason I do it is for convenience. Yeah, for convenience for yourself. So convenience wise aside, I go,   what's what's the benefit here from an audience member? If and again, this is just me. If I saw someone doing like   the selling commercial aspect of it, where it was like, we got these shirts and whatnot, I I would probably just, in my mind, skip. I can't just be like, oh, that's not what I'm here for. And that's just my my trend, I guess, of how I've supported it done, like, value for people. Yeah. That's that's how I would kind of go   unless there's a there's a trigger or reason that I would be like, oh, I really want to support them or do those particular things. So. Yeah. I don't know. And and look, the reason we do it live now, honestly, a large part of it is convenience for me as well. So  

[01:05:32] Kyrin Down:

so when you're doing things for convenience rather than for   doing it,   because it suits the genre, for example, so like,   yes, you can create the music,   but then selling it as an NFT,   it's not going to get widespread adoption. You're better off putting it on Spotify, even if you hate the platform and feel like they're,   you know, not   not fair to creators or whatever, which a lot of people do seem to   Had more about Rick Beato and stuff here, but I'll I'll leave that for next week. So I think it'll, actually  

[01:06:07] Juan Granados:

get into that. My my summary, I guess, I'll say from an investment creator. So at least like the way I see it again, I I default go investing in creators will continue like that happens now. Yes. It'll transition the way It'll still be,   very much   foundational on just attention, just pure attention. And if I had to think about it, if I've thought about it a lot from a podcast perspective, or this me and mortals and what do we do and how does that translate into   that attention into some sort of value that we return, I still go, my default is, yep, I just wanna do things that are good cadence that I can do. It's like long term, which will include   all the variations and improvement in technology. And so, you know, if that changes to utilizing different platforms and doing different things, sure. But I wanna be able to create, again, the underlying   ideas   and thoughts of   ours is pretty unique. And, again, it's hard to replicate that with AI given where it's information learning base is. Right? And they're doing they're doing recursive learning on learning on one and current. That's just stuff that comes from us and and those are kind of a go. There will be some level of value to people who care about that more   human that is us presenting information of the world at large.  

And to be honest, more so where I would want value probably to come in payments or other things,   I'm genuinely thinking it'll just be from other ventures that I do, kind of like a Tom or a Lewis.   Not in the sense of like, hey, now I've got your attention, go do this, or more, hey, I'm opening x or I'm doing y or whatever. And people would might want to support that because they know the background of who I am. More more along those lines.  

[01:07:40] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. For me, it's   technology can enable   new behavior,   change behavior. So the   not only is video a completely new format, if we're going back to caveman days, you know, three hundred years ago, we had what the live aspect of live theater of visual things of   audio,   text and images. You had all of those three things   about the video component   and behavior was very different. They had marketplaces,   you know, artists, there was more the patronage model.   Mozart had backers and Beethoven and people like that, the kings and queens, they were the   connoisseurs of art and things like that. Text would be, you know, only for the ultra wealthy and things like that. Gutenberg printing press comes out, then you can start newspapers and that creates a whole new thing. So technology changes behavior   and of being able to   be a content creator. And it's funny thinking of like a newspaper as a content creator, but they were   revolutionary at the cutting edge of that back in the day.  

It changes   behaviors and I think   we're going to see it. Like I mentioned in that kind of   split up that I had between the various formats will be exactly that. There'll be blending and merging, but this is kind of how I see things at the moment. The   idea of investing in a creator,   the shakiest one I still think is the Zora coin.   You know, there's a post and you invest in your you're trying to make money from people creating things as a as the consumer of the product.   This has been one of the ideas of NFTs when I was first coming out, which is like I've got proof that I went to like the very first Taylor Swift concert or like a post like that. Yep.  

[01:09:36] Juan Granados:

And  

[01:09:37] Kyrin Down:

was the idea with that to then   socially flex on people? I don't know. To resell it   to another person.   I haven't seen much of the reselling   type behavior. So I think it's more of the social flexing on it. Type idea. If you socially flex a pope,  

[01:09:55] Juan Granados:

like a po app. A po app. Tell me, tell me if you do that because fuck me. That would be the gayest. That's a shootiest thing I've ever seen. I've got loads of them. I remember going to locations where I was like, oh, staying in line to scan this thing so you can get your POAP. So it's  

[01:10:08] Kyrin Down:

proof of attendance protocol. So it's just a digital thing.  

[01:10:12] Juan Granados:

I think it's an NFT proving that you were at a real life event. Correct. Correct. Or or a digital event that you had to be online for at the time. Yeah. Unless it look, unless it's attached to something else so that you can show proof to it, like a gated access to some kind. Okay. I get that. But if it's flex, man, don't come talking to me. If you if you flex your pull up, just  

[01:10:35] Kyrin Down:

don't come talk to me. Yeah. I I I don't see much of the   investing. I don't think that's gonna be the behavior trend. I don't think you're gonna invest in a creator to then be able to make money off of them.   Perhaps for an artwork.  

[01:10:51] Juan Granados:

Yes. I could see that. That's that's his like that. I won't I won't go into too much. But there's a guy on Gold Coast doing exactly that as a business and doing really well as in as in, like, he's investing in creators that are really small.   Yeah. And basically taking equity piece of them as they get bigger. So he is directly investing. He's he's all about building the marketplace. Yeah. But it's weird. It was it was a weird concept. That's more VC.   I guess Like it would be the it would be the equivalent of a wealthy person in the company coming in and be like, hey, actually guys, we really believe in what you're doing. We're gonna give you $10,000,000   to make it bigger. We just want 10% of your company.  

Just just like basically, don't advertise and do anything. Just scale up all your things. That's basically what he's kind of doing. Yeah.  

[01:11:36] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. That that kind of works. But it's like, you know, if he was to come to us, for example, and say that and I'd,   I'd kind of go like, okay, but I don't really have   plans. I'm still just going to do digital content. I don't have plans to make this into a. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah. He's obviously going to people who are  

[01:11:55] Juan Granados:

thinking of very like very directly generating revenue. Yeah. I'm like, look up The way that he turns it, which I I kind of agree, is rather than investing in companies, he thinks that the next couple of years will be,   it'll be the creator the creator economy in that invest in creators   and whatever they do, NFTs, whatever, it'll be your attention to a creator will be higher than what most companies see.   In turn, that's where the money's gonna go. In turn, he's gonna get money based on having equity partnerships. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's very much more the, like, the real life meet space sort of thing.  

[01:12:27] Kyrin Down:

And I'm imagining more of the people. So you know,   what he's doing doesn't require him to consume any of that content. Correct.   And I'm Yeah, what I was talking more about was the people consuming the content and   participating with that   creator   of some sort of form. So, yeah, I think it'll be more of the   spending,   consuming,   supporting them like that with perhaps a bit of the   kind of value for value of   just just giving them money as a thank you.   And probably like the term value for value will never make it into like a mainstream.   That there's probably one thing I've changed my mind on over the last couple of years is value for value is that concept won't be a mainstream concept. It'll be  

[01:13:16] Juan Granados:

a a behavior. Yeah, it'll be like a principle of happiness,  

[01:13:19] Kyrin Down:

but you might not even realize that's what you're doing.   Yet. Yeah, that's happening kind of beneath the surface or subconsciously or something like that. So,   yeah, yeah. I suppose those are a couple of the random ideas. I did see a live comment here. Husky NFT cash grabs one point zero are the best. Yes, so they are. So they are. They've got   the the 10 ks out at the moment, which was just like a random. Yeah. Extra addition.  

[01:13:46] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Cool. Okay.  

[01:13:48] Kyrin Down:

So yeah, next week we'll   go into.   Yeah. Life in   twenty, two thousand one hundred. It's just a date we could change that to whatever. But   yeah, we'll be talking.   The one thing   just to add at the end as   when they're asking kids about AI and they don't care,   I feel like   you could have asked kids about is this TV show not real?   Twenty years ago and they'd say, like, I don't care   or   watching a reality TV. TV show. And that's like, okay, but you realize that this kind of scripted, right? Like the Geordie Shore, like this isn't actually. Yeah. People are like, oh, I don't care. Well, not people. I think kids   would and probably some people, but kids mostly would be like, I don't care.  

Will they care about AI not being real in twenty years when they're an adult and making investing decisions and shit like that? Because my brother's kind of on the edge of this. I've seen this where   he has   been,   he's seen videos, which I've then told him, like, you know, I don't think that's actually real. And he'd be like, I don't give a shit. And then recently when it comes to things he does care more about, he is a lot more critical of,   especially when it comes to like money or investing or health or things like that. He is much more  

[01:15:11] Juan Granados:

well,   there's two learning. So there's two differences there. There's one   for entertainment versus   actionable things. And I think if it's an actionable thing that's a direct, like, you need to take an action on it, then sure, you might be more discerning because you want to be seeing the reality or whatever reality is that you needed to achieve the outcome that you want. Yeah. If it's entertainment.  

[01:15:32] Kyrin Down:

Yeah.   I I don't give a shit about it. And like, I don't. Yeah,   I am very much aware that watching  

[01:15:39] Juan Granados:

an anime series is not. Exactly. But people do it because it's just like you didn't care. It's entertainment. Yeah. So I think I think the Yeah. But but yeah, people are making entertainment of, you know, Russians fighting Ukraine. Well, at the moment at the moment there's heaps of new, you know, you've got your fitness influences. There's heaps of AI fitness influences now coming out and that people are creating full content on here's my day of the life of eating and my training and getting like gigantic amount of views. Sure. I think part of that will just continue where it'll just be like, oh, it's just yes. It's digital, but it's just, hey, this is Simon the digital whatever and it's someone building it and they're building the story. People people are just gonna be entertained. Like entertainment perspective,   you're we're all fucked. People will not give a shit if it's real or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, entertainment  

[01:16:23] Kyrin Down:

is just blurging,   blurring more into blurring, blurging, blurring slash merging, blurging   into   real,   real life, I guess, you know, where it is, it just does look so visually like a person or, or it's something that was   fifteen years ago on   replica replicable   and you couldn't create something that looks exactly like that. Now you can that's that's probably just why it's the I don't know, the uncanny valley of something where you can you can still tell it's kind of like an AI photo at the moment but not exactly. And then it's getting very quickly to the point where it's going beyond that. Yeah. Yeah. It's going that. But thank you very much everyone for tuning in live. Yeah. Yeah. Much appreciated. So, yep, listening live for next week when we talk about, yeah, 2100 or thereabouts, basically the future. What does that look like? I'm sure we'll have different views. There'll be lots of technology conversations and a whole bunch of different things. So tune in for that one. Yeah. I've got this note on my phone forever, which has been called AI SchmaeI   and technology is making life harder. And some of the the things I'd already written down here already   apply to that. So Dan,  

[01:17:33] Juan Granados:

okay. Very good. Me more than last be well wherever you are in the world. Juan out, Karin out.