Mere Mortals Conversations

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We have reached half a (MIL)estone so let's give it a half assed effort!

In Episode #500 of 'Meanderings', Juan & I discuss: six years of podcasting, the origin story of why we originally started, stats and highlights across YouTube and audio, mishaps (spiders, dead mics, random street cameos), how our focus on value has changed over the years, community shout-outs (thanks for the surprise cake, Mum!), the lessons learned from interviews and long-form chats and why we’ve kept ads out of the show, what “doubling down” means for us, clearer topic lanes across our channels (tech, AI, books, art, fitness) and staying open, decentralised and listener-supported while the tech and monetisation landscape evolves. 

Huge thanks to Cole McCormick for the support, absolute legend!

Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortals

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:01) Origins in 2019 & splitting channels
(00:03:59) Going live & cake
(00:05:02) Stats time: YouTube vs podcast numbers and history
(00:10:02) Throwback: Mere Mortals challenges and early experiments
(00:14:40) Shifting away from chasing numbers & Value
(00:19:13) Format choices: long form, low edits and creator trade‑offs
(00:23:20) Personal archives: NFT's & Old Clips
(00:29:38) Audience vs creator value & peak effort era
(00:35:12) Guest pitches and curation
(00:36:57) Boostagram Lounge
(00:40:22) Support models ahead: value for value, subscriptions and tech shifts
(00:43:53) Advertising, AI & Governments
(00:49:19) Doubling down: personal life over production
(00:51:43) Segmenting interests: tech, AI, art, books, and fitness channels
(00:56:19) Concrete plans: more conversations and remote interviews
(01:00:19) Confidence to reach out: lining up future guests
(01:03:50) Skills to build: live speaking and community events
(01:08:50) Travel networks vs local communities: effort vs payoff
(01:10:54) Sign‑off: six years in, 20k unique listeners and thanks

Connect with Mere Mortals:
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[00:00:06] Juan Granados:

We are indeed. Welcome back. Mere Mortalites. We've got another episode of the Mere Mortals podcast today. And it's gonna be a meanderings. We're gonna be talking a little bit more,   fluidly, I think, today than a than a deep conversation. It is   the November 9. We go live on the 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time, and it is the five hundred the big five o o. I was gonna say five o. Five hundredth episode. You got Juan here. And Kyrin here. And now this is I'm gonna make some some clarity clarity here because, we were talking about this book before on the podcast, around five hundred. And and some of you might be like,   wait a minute. I feel like you guys have done more. We have. We have done more. So to be clear, this is the five hundredth episode   where myself and Karen basically have sat down and had a conversation with each other. Usually, a musings or b and drinks. It began not even being called that at all, but I think we were just well, the very first episode ever was just episode one of the mere mortals. Principles, actually. Correct. Principles. Guy at the gym was reading a book of it, and I was like, hey, man. It was our very first episode. Yeah. Yeah. If you wanna go check out our review kind of conversation on a twenty nineteen Yeah. To see what our unwise minds were, then go check that out. But yeah. Yeah. It's like the very it's like the very first episode of this podcast would have translated to being the first one out of the 500 that we're talking about right now. Yeah. That was back in 09/16/2019.  

I believe. September 15, I believe. Fifteenth. Okay. September 1539. So I was kinda like the first one. And since then, we kind of trans   we and the reason I'm talking about this is because I've got some numbers. I was doing some good numbers, some number check before him. So,   for those who are not familiar with the the historical nature of the podcast,   we first, we got it as, like, literally just a show where we were recording it with a GoPro. Once a week. Once a week, and we're putting it together in the audio and video from literally day one. Literally day one. Yep. Yep. So, you know, how many people can say that?   But since then, it started, like, divulging into, okay, we wanted to do book reviews or talk about book reviews. So we we had book reviews and the normal near mortals sort of channel all in the one go. Yeah. Yep. We split that out both in the audio and the video at some. I can't remember exactly. That's 2021, 2022.  



[00:02:17] Kyrin Down:

No. It would have been Later. 2021,  

[00:02:20] Juan Granados:

if not even late twenty twenty, perhaps. Yeah. So we made this decision of of kind of splitting it up. Since then, there have been loads of other   channels, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Channels could have had, like, like, a value for value conversation slash channel. We've talked about me and morph years. I had the me immortals in motion, which I had originally   in the me immortals channel and then kind of split it out onto itself. This one's this one's called me immortals conversations now to Immortals conversations to kind of amalgamate   plenty of things. Long story short, like, there's a lot of history obviously in that six years of running something. So it's still yeah. Yes. It's 500 episodes of this particular one. With within a 1% tolerance, I would say. So I definitely remember  

[00:03:01] Kyrin Down:

of like episode   423.5   that I've done. And   there was certainly some solo episodes where I was   I'd labeled it for, you know, March   and but it was just me. It was just kind of that's true. Everyone was overseas or vice versa. So yeah, it's I'd say within a 1% tolerance. Correct. Correct. If you want some specifics  

[00:03:24] Juan Granados:

on the mere mortals channel, so this   I'm reviewing some some stats before on the Mere Mortals channel. So not the book reviews and not other things. I saw that we posted 753   items. So   that's inclusive of a lot of other things. But just to give you an idea, there's been more than 500, but we're celebrating 500 of the conversation. And I don't know how many have been live. So I literally would have no no clue how many when when we actually first began live. I'd say maybe  

[00:03:53] Kyrin Down:

150  

[00:03:55] Juan Granados:

ish of them. Yeah. So it's almost, like, two years straight. Two plot two more. More. Yeah? Two ish. Two and a half years straight of, like, live live conversations. Yeah. A little bit of breaks here and there. So, in any case, the other shout I was gonna say, I've got I can see mom, Patricia, on the on the live at the moment as well. Thank you very much. We got delivered a cake this morning. We did. It was a prize in cake. I'll I threw up a photo. It's on the Discord. My socials, but it's in the Discord as well if you wanna go check it out. I know. I'll display it on the screen right here. Otherwise, we're just watching this live as well. But, yes. So thank you very much for the cake. I started tucking into it even before we we even picked it up to to take a photo together or to, you know, complete the actual episode. But,   and I guess, yeah, from today's conversation, I guess, we're just either   reminisce thoughts about things that have maybe worked in the last 500 episodes on the historical nature of the podcast so far. Mhmm. Maybe ideas and thoughts of to the future. Sure. And then again, open it up. When when the mill Yeah.  

When the mill and the the individuals who are on the, you know, listening to this live, if you wanna drop in some questions, some thoughts, whatever,   I'm happy to kind of answer them and talk to them as well. So, yes, we should probably just do the the past, I guess, before the boostgram lands. And then I think I think it'll be good. So let me give you let me bring you up to from past to the present to the current in terms of statistics to give some some numbers to you.   And I left them upstairs.   It's interesting when you write something down on paper   in this day and age still, man, I remember it like a couple of months so much better than in comparison to on the phone and whatnot. So,   this is the YouTube numbers. So I'll split it between YouTube and then just podcasts audio in general. Only YouTube, the book reviews on total,   almost 500,000, half a million.  

Nice. 500. Almost,   500,000   views on the book review channel, which again,   if I'm reminiscing correctly, I believe was our   original channel.   That's where we had everything, and then we separated the mere mortals conversations   out into its new one. Or was it the opposite way around? I think we did that because we wanted to keep the book reviews with the more subscriptions,   because it was being it was the one that was being watched the most. I should be able to figure this out because there's a channel with all the playlists on it. And while while you're talking, I'll figure that out. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So we we made this particular decision in any case. And and I'll I'll tell you right now, even when we made that call, our mindset and you'll see it actually play on the numbers, which is crazy,   that our minds are words in the initial days of the podcast. The book reviews was getting the most attention. So when we were doing these conversations like number 32, number 33,   like it was it was literally my mom, maybe my dad sometimes, maybe a friend or two who'd watching it. That is it. Nobody else.  

But the book reviews were getting   plenty of healthy views you'd be having, especially when you did,   Gulag Archipelago.   Archipelagos by Solzhenitsyn.   That got like ridiculous.  

[00:06:42] Kyrin Down:

I think I was   piggybacking off some Jordan Peterson talking about the book, although I'd, you know, I'd reviewed it many years after he was talking about it. And yeah, just to clarify. So yes, if you go into the book reviews channel, if you go into the playlist section,   there's all of these playlists,   which are originally mere mortals conversations, one to 45 mere mortals episodes one to 172.   And mere mortals monthly goals, June 2020, April 2021. So that was probably I guess, right around when we   switched over in 2021.  

[00:07:15] Juan Granados:

I'm guessing. It might be interesting to watch some of those earlier monthly goals, actually, just five years ago to see what our mindsets weren't thinking about.   Be random. It would be random. But Yeah. So so, you know, we made that particular call decision to to split it out in our way. And so again, today, and and the book reviews   has   more subscribers and 2,300   and something.   70. Two three seven. Two three seventy on the YouTube and it got about almost 500,000   lifetime views. Now, Emmy Immortals channel, which came later,   yes, has less subscription.  



[00:07:50] Kyrin Down:

1,380.  

[00:07:51] Juan Granados:

1,300   But it's a lifetime views of 1,200,000.   So now that's that's a mixture of more clips. That's a mixture of I believe off the back of latest conversations I've seen.   It just is becoming more popular.   Both the interviews, both the clips. There's more volume than the book reviews in itself. And I expected that to happen at some point. And I think we're seeing that that would have happened that little, like,   convex way that the conversations of the mere mortals channel was more popular or more watched or more consumed   came probably like a year or two years ago. Now book reviews continues today, but you can see it's more of the conversations that we do now that are the ones that I consume the most, which is what we expected.  

The from a numbers, but then if I look at it, on another stat actually, so, again, keeping on the YouTube from a video perspective,   the book reviews have had fifteen thousand hours of watch times And then the immortals channel,   the one that you are listening to right now, 10,000. It just went over 10,000 not too long ago. So still there's probably some   years behind it in terms of our watch time. If I go over to the podcast side of things God, you have remembered all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you go to the podcast side of things on on total,   it's 36,000,   what, all downloads   on the,   not but but but We've switched hosts. We've switched hosts many, many times. So this is only like   I I think it might be like a year and a half worth of   data or if that for some of this stuff. But in now and I can see how many, you know, overall   podcast episodes we've done. And if we look for all of those, it's over twelve fifty. If you go, Neomorphier's value, Neomorphism motion, book reviews, Neomorphism podcast, not including Lesenas that you had a ton load off as well. Right? So   there's there's like a lot of   history there in the work that we've done. So I mean I've got deep in my to do list,  

[00:09:46] Kyrin Down:

reupload the rosennas, that's a podcast. For And that's just like  

[00:09:50] Juan Granados:

if it would probably take half a day to do, wouldn't be too too long. But Yeah. Yeah. So I have not been asked to do that. Now if I go back and so let me review a couple of other highlights as well as some people might not be aware of as well from the past. Way back in the day, we used to do me immortals challenges.   If you really want to go and figure it, find it. We had a video that we captured when we're doing a thousand push ups, a thousand push ups in sixty minutes. So just just look in the playlist section for I would say any of these things because  

[00:10:19] Kyrin Down:

yeah, find finding a lot of this stuff is hard. So if you go on to the   either the Mirror Models podcast or the book reviews channel, I think I've saved the playlist on both. And that's why I was kind of like confused just before because I was like, Oh wait, I can see this playlist on both.   So, yeah, if you just go over there, you can see some random stuff in there, which is like I've literally called it old random stuff. And so it's got the,   one kilometer run 100 push ups 150 sit ups. I think that was something you did 1,000 push ups and one hour challenge.   Me and models challenge number two. It was two that was   random stuff trapped in a Mexican jail. That was I think the first that you you really created. Yeah, exactly. No one was like, I remember doing it specifically based on that story that you told. I've got a whiteboard here, my first and only whiteboard,   which is mere models twenty nineteen twenty twenty fitness challenge. And I was explaining all the math behind it. And then there's a whole bunch of like things of us training in the park. You remember that in Mexico? No, no, no. This is in the park outside of your parents house. All right. Okay.  

Gee, I don't remember that. Wow. Once twenty second handstand   that he's done here. Yeah. A lot of a lot of random things. A lot of random stuff in there. So, yeah, look,  

[00:11:38] Juan Granados:

we're trying I think we've we've tried a decent amount   of variety on the podcast. And honestly, when we were doing it as a mechanic, it was really   a hobby. It was something   fun that we enjoyed doing. It was something in terms of conversations that, again,   for some who've heard the story, forgive me for replaying it again. But, really, the reason the podcast began was Karen was traveling through South America. Our friend Joseph, myself, and Karen had a group chat, and we essentially were sending audio messages to each other almost sometimes twenty minutes, half an hour. But a lot of that could be longer than that. Could be longer. Right? And we've just I I remember just recording one while I was, like, driving and having my phone just sort of sitting there. You'd have some just telling us some stories. Yeah. And again, the impetus was when currents came back to Australia on, hey, why don't just like sit down and have conversations and turn it into a podcast?   Not with any   real   business plan. No real idea. It was just, hey, let's just record a couple. Let's just see how it goes. And the very first episode we got to, if I can remember, maybe like forty, forty five minutes or something like that. And then it it it actually broke. So we got all the way to the end. The laptop had crashed at forty five minutes and we done it maybe for an hour   conversation and restarted again from the forty fifth minute and finished it off. So even from the first get go, there was, some blockers in the way to do it. Yeah. But that we've experienced   men that times   a 100, I reckon, in the time that we've, like, run this podcast as well of things crashing and not working. I've had interviews that I've done with, like, cameras, stopped working, microphones have stopped working, and stuff like, kind of scrap together things to make it work. So   if anything, the podcast crappy. If anything, if anything, the the podcast has made me learn of,   like, something at some point, something's gonna go wrong and just having to deal with it. I reckon   enough things have gone wrong in the podcast I've done. I can't, like, foreseeably see something else wrong happening that would maybe be like, oh, yeah. We haven't experienced that. Like, we've had, people drop in on us from, like, when we've been out and about on the streets and had someone kinda, like, be behind and  

[00:13:39] Kyrin Down:

just drop right behind Kyren. What was it? Double Mexican hat? I think I was   Oh, yeah. Double Mexican hat. I was very drunk. Yep. And  

[00:13:47] Juan Granados:

Mic's not working. Yeah. Video not working. Spiders falling on Juan's head.   Cords not connecting appropriately and having, like, random Yeah. It   If you do if you do things for long enough, yeah, you're going to have fine things are just not going to work. What are the things from the past would you say  

[00:14:06] Kyrin Down:

to reflect or any call outs, anything that you got to like? Yeah. Yeah. The all the stats and numbers that you gave for the for those   who perhaps haven't started one before who are interested in how much you,   how you evaluate   if you're doing well or not.   I would say that neither of us has looked at these stats for probably the last   in any meaningful capacity for probably like three years now.   So whilst interesting,   there was a little time period we're using them in terms of like, hey, is this actually growing? Like, are we   making progress? And yet in that case, you do want to actually have some   some things to   to see measurable improvement in terms of, okay, yeah, numbers actually go number go up. Yep.  

It's been a while since and in fact, you could probably almost   see the point where   I stopped thinking of the podcast as perhaps a potential job in the future   to Okay, this is a fun thing to do now and get to hang out with my friend.   And,   you know, explore some topics, ideas.   You know, as part journal part catch up time part,   other random thing.   And   the numbers, all of those things that you're saying just now I like I don't even know what to relate them to anymore. Like a million a million views like, you know, shorts, you can put out like a   decent short like we if you if you if I got you dancing on the stairs, you could a decent chance I could go viral and we could get a million. Yeah. Yeah. Well,   does that therefore those ten seconds of you dancing on the stairs equate to equate to 500 episodes? Maybe it does. That's how little value we've provided.  

So no, the   I think I labeled this something like half a mill of value.   And   that's probably been the most fun aspect of this, which is   learning about what is valuable to myself and to other people. And so   one of the things that I really enjoy was, you know, honestly making connections got cold in the chat, and he was asking,   what are you going to double down on going forward? We'll we'll address that after the boost program lounge.   But I got to go see him in in The States and Peter and I've actually now got a little business partnership   with with Cole,   purely based on trust. And so   I think that's what's been the most   almost standout bit of this, which is like, oh, yeah, it's the creating connections with other people across the world, for example,   learning how to   do interviews and things like that. If you'd told me ten years ago that I would be   hitting up people randomly and having conversations with them and   not only feeling comfortable, but I think doing a decent job at that. Like, Nah, no way. That's, that's so crazy. How could I just reach out to someone on the internet that doesn't make any sense to me.  

And it's just been really good avenue for learning things. You know, if we hadn't done this, I probably wouldn't have got into   value for value, learned about Bitcoin,   weren't gone down the whole rabbit hole of technology point. You know, I used to be an anti technology guy. There was there was a period where I was, I was more of a privacy guy. Yep. And, so I was using cash everywhere and I was,   what else was I doing? I was, I was trying to like limit having my phone in my pockets and stuff, like trying to keep things away from me.   And, you know, that was that was in like 2015.  

So yeah, ten years ago, 2036.   Man, have I changed? That's that. 2020.   So yeah, it's been like an avenue for exploring things for me as well. It was much more important than the, the metrics and the numbers and   how how viral are we. And, you know, I've I've been stopped out once in person,   once or twice, actually. And they're like, Oh, you're the guy from the podcast.   And I learned, man, I don't didn't really enjoy that, to be honest. Like, it's just,   I don't I didn't enjoy having the power and balance of someone knowing a lot more about me than I know about them. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. The,  

[00:18:20] Juan Granados:

I mean, it's the sorry. From a statistics perspective,   we even we could even pinpoint it because we had a spreadsheet that we can track off and we would catch up weekly now. We were living together at the time. It was much easier. So it's much easier. But the we would do like weekly checks on, what are we planning on doing? What do we think we should do differently? Okay, these numbers went up and this and they went up. So it went up because of this and maybe we should have tried that. I mean, to do that for, again, a good amount of time, but we can pinpoint exactly probably when that spreadsheet we stopped updating it. Yeah. And honestly Even when we're doing that, I got to say, it was it was still a little half assed. Sure. Yeah. It was. Yeah. There wasn't there was like we were reviewing the numbers. We weren't really doing anything about the numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put it that way. Like we were doing some things, but not. I think in a in a slight sense, it would have helped in terms of we'd have seen some things  

[00:19:06] Kyrin Down:

perhaps working a little bit different, but   because we weren't I would say we didn't experiment that much with that format. If you look over the years,   there's   it's been relatively same format. Long form,   not many   cuts. Sure. There'd be a period where I'd create clips and you'd create shorts,   but and there was a couple of videos wanted high quality ones, but never   on the conversations that was around, you know, the   gym you're going to at the time, which I've forgotten the name of a talent orient orient. Yep. And, and things like that. So   we've experimented   bits and pieces. But I wouldn't say that either of us were all in creators and that's just because,   like, I don't enjoy creating  

[00:19:50] Juan Granados:

that much. Yeah. And I guess when, when I think the default and again, creating sometimes gets,   it can be   attractive to think that it's like the Mr. Beast equivalent or something like that, where it's   high energy or you're trying to do things which are inciting people, good or bad to come and watch something.   And I've never, because I've never really thought of wanted to put together some sort of content or create something where   it is either like divisive or just like, oh my God, what the hell is this? So like, as you said,   you know, could we   do a skit or dance down the stairs? And even when we did that ad or sued society back back in the day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes.  

We've done that, but   not like I get a lot of joy from doing that. And   I, like, I personally don't enjoy watching that much content when it's like, you know,   a 100 men versus one gorilla or   flying   on a super, like, cheap jet, middle priced jet and really high expensive price jet, which is kind of like what you see if I don't I don't get that much joy from that. I enjoy   like the things I enjoy is probably also how we portray and put together the podcast. Like I like to listen to   long form   detailed, informative things about things that I'm not aware of. And now the podcast with Immortals is not in the same lens. We're not conversing about, you know, the highest.   It's weird. We do have conversations about maybe interesting topics, but in a immortal type of way, we're not trying to tell you or sell you on any particular thing to go and see this and do that, nor are we saying we're the expert on really anything. It's just how do we pass the world through our own eyes. And honestly, looking back as well, the   I've always said this, like I've never really,   it never really helped me. I was like, oh, this is going to become the job. This is going to be nah, never really like had that in my mind, but it has evolved. And I don't talk about it when we talk about what are we doubling down on for the next   whatever amount of time is things like   conversations,   speaking,   being able to   put together an idea and craft it into something that's five minutes, ten minutes, twenty minutes. I like it even or obviously the book reviews. I've enjoyed doing the book reviews because it forced it had it forced me against a forcing function to read a book,   understand it,   condense it down into the things that I care about. Nowadays, I use a lot of AI to kind of summarize what I'm thinking about as well, pull out all the extracts and then replay it. And honestly,   there was the Admiral book. I remember the title of that particular book by James Stravartis.  

You know, it was like sailing the sea or something. It was like one of the very early movies. True North maybe it was. And I went I don't know I I was like, I don't remember what that book had in particular. There was like little bit like bits and bobs that I remember Millenore fully. And I remember   re watching my own book review and being like, oh, yep. I remember what I pulled out from it, what I enjoyed, what I didn't like the connections to it. And I was like, that was kind of cool because   often at least for me content or things that I care about, sometimes I do forget, you know, you just forget time passes by. And it's almost my, you know, my little time capsule to go back and recall something and be like, oh, yeah. That that that sort of like what that mindset at the time or what I was thinking about. And again, you as a person, just you change, you change. So So it's good to like reflect back and see that.   Sometimes it's it's well, I'll tell you, it's it's worth more than just   reading it.  

You visualize it or hear it from yourself.   Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I was meaning. That's kind of the emotion that I had playing through me. So much about life is relearning  

[00:23:23] Kyrin Down:

things that you have done in the past. I'm currently in the same process right now   of relearning, I guess,   speaking more,   with more confidence,   approaching   women,   and   being more open about like sexuality and things like that. And that I kind of had learned these things   in 2014   when I found my first girlfriend,   in 2017,   2019   or a second one, like things like that. So it's, it's, it's like, oh, yeah, there's things I'm relearning again.   And, you know, perhaps if I had a video written down of like, hey, this is   how your mind worked in the past, this is how it's probably and how you've kind of fixed it in a sense.  

Here's, here's some tools and tips and tricks to remember so you don't have to relearn it all from scratch again.   So,   yeah, we   were looking just we went out on on Friday evening just for for a casual drink. Juan and I and Manchil   Me too. Been on the podcast a couple of times as well. And the   just at some point, we're trying to look at like NFTs, for example, because we're talking Juan was talking about them pretty early on and we're like, well, how early on? It It was pretty early on. Yeah. It was a,   you know, not in 2017 when CryptoPunks were coming out, but, you know, in 2021.  



[00:24:50] Juan Granados:

Pre twenty two. Yeah. Like early twenty twenty one when View Friends hadn't been released.   Bored Apes hadn't been released. Yeah. Back back in the day. Yep. And  

[00:24:59] Kyrin Down:

just going through some of those clips.   I'm   so glad that we've got them. And I really hope that YouTube stays around for a long time.   Because   I I love watching them. And they were really, really fun. Just going back being like, not only, you know, looking at us   five,   six years ago, and being and going like, Damn, look at that. You can see you can see like the age effect. There's still there's still a at least for me, it's my fame, a famous event where  

[00:25:26] Juan Granados:

Karen asked me if I'd ever if I'd ever laid down still with my eyes closed before.  

[00:25:31] Kyrin Down:

And I said, like, no, no, no. I was talking about, like, how hard it is. Like,   yeah, yeah. I was, I was making it into this big deal because it was, it was just   that was when I was meditating a lot. And so I was going, yeah, laying down perfectly still with your eyes closed. Have you ever done this and how hard it is?  

[00:25:49] Juan Granados:

I was like, yeah, sleeping.   But actually even then it was like the, you know, memory of the recall because even a lot of stuff that we've talked about in the podcast and again,   this is not even for anybody else. It's just like us may be able to recall when we go back through things of like the time when you did your   silent retreat. So just events like travels events and how valuable is it going to be looking at  

[00:26:11] Kyrin Down:

us in Greece?   Six sixty years time hopefully and just go like damn, do you remember that man? You remember being in Greece right after your wedding? So like, it's overall in the past, if you from all the way that we've been putting the podcast together, it has been a  

[00:26:28] Juan Granados:

journey of us storytelling   things that are interesting that are happening in our life. We've there's been a set amount of individuals who probably listen to us now for a little while. Yes. We do talk about, you know, mere mortals and effective philosophy and deep conversations. We're a lot harder to touch. So   I often often when I go into conversations like these ones, I'm like, you know, how much is it gonna be take away from people to to take away as like and I'll give you an example. Yeah. I I wanna ask you as well,  

[00:26:55] Kyrin Down:

the value component. Sorry to cut you off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like that  

[00:27:00] Juan Granados:

value aspect. So if again, I go, what are some of the   podcasts or content that I consume?   Certainly there are,   the three blue, one brown type content where it's like learning   very well put together, an extremely amount of value obtained from a very short period of time. This This one's in particular to, like, AI and mathematics.   Love it. Wonderful.   That's not what we do. That's what I think we'll ever ever do. But   I do consume   on occasion,   open conversations and chats between people. Take it a   Alex Friedman with whoever,   Chris Williamson with whoever,   those type of individuals. And often   the value that I'm getting is obtained through the conversation that happened. Some of them are more pointed with the value or the quote and they talk about it, but it's often the   story or what did this person do or what happened because of this.  

And   I do see that   if I review some of the things that we talk about,   it does get slid in there appropriately. I've tried to make more of an effort with the book reviews with trying to put together an effective philosophy and something directly that kind of comes out with some of these books harder when it's fiction easy when it's a nonfiction books. So take that as you will. Sure.   But while there are aspects of doing it purposely,   I do   find or I think that some of the conversations that we're having   indirectly, if people are listening through it, there are some takeaway, some juicy little bits of value to take away and be like, okay, yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Makes sense. When I think of value, I go,  

[00:28:34] Kyrin Down:

okay, well, value is subjective   to everyone.   But if you take two extremes, for example, so let's say the Mr. Beast, which is if you listen to any of his videos,   he is   100%   focused on his guiding star is like, is this the best video possible?   And   it's kind of a weird metrics. Like, how do you measure that? Does that is that measured in views? Therefore, is click baity the correct answer? Or is   engagement the best answer for that? You know, and he'd   say like, it's all kind of tied up into this one thing. Yep.   And the   the the different I guess   his driving thing is, I would say value. He wants to make it as valuable to people as possible so that they will watch and consume more. And that's that's I guess, like the best thing.  

Take someone who is on the opposite end of the spectrum who like   insults their audience or doesn't give a fuck about quality   or whatever. And it's purely just for them. And they're just making it.   And   sometimes that can be valuable. But you can find a whole shit ton of   YouTube videos of like a dude just ranting about some random shit. And that's 100%   valuable for him to do it. And he's not trying to give value to the to anybody else to the opposite side of the camera, for example. And so   when I think of that, I go like, okay, yeah, we probably like, you know, we're starting off as just like experimenting,   we'll try some things out, you know, perhaps we're like learning of like, oh, how we can give value to the audience. And   when I the more I hear about that there was a time period where it kind of like,   grossed me out a little bit. It's like, so focused on giving value to the audience, like, as if it was a fucking like eat this cake motherfucker like yeah,   be healthy.  

Take this value into you. And   I would say we did it in a sense where   there was a period where we're creating much more   content per week, I   almost something every day, if not every day, if not more.   And so like, in terms of   just sheer numbers, we're getting more out   the conversations, I remember I was   doing them for my own personal curiosity, but there were certainly questions where I was like, is this something the audience would find unique   or things like this and   an aspect that they perhaps would want to know about this person and their story?   And so that was where I would say, but that took like a lot of time on my effort. I was on my part, I was having to listen to whole bunches of, you know, I probably listened to like as much Adam Curry as I could before chatting with him.  

And so I wasn't repeating questions he's already been asked.   And, he actually called me out for saying, like, you know, the very first intro I was asking about, like, how many peasants you could perceive per square inch from his castle when he first bought it. It? Just a question they'd never been asked before. And he was like, oh, yeah, that was that was a good, like, intro. Yeah. So,   that sort of thing is like, okay,   that was great. Valuable for the people at home.   A lot of effort on my part. And so the it went from 50%   or like 100% value for me to 50%   for me, 50% for the audience.  

And it's just exhausting now. It's a lot of work when you do that. And so there's no surprise that our most   profitable period and basically every metric in terms of boostograms coming in. Yeah, it was when we were putting like ridiculous effort number a number of people like watching per week,   new   subscribers, all all of that was peaking and probably like   twenty, twenty one, twenty, twenty two. And then since then,   I know me personally, I've just gone, okay, now I'm back to like more   100%,   98 value for me and   focusing a little bit on quality for the audience and things like that. So   I think that's   that's probably like one of the dynamics has changed over the years has gone.  

What's the reason you're doing it for? Is it for me or is it for the audience? And then back to me again. Yeah. Yep.  

[00:32:46] Juan Granados:

And look, the look, there's an aspect of longevity as well, right? Where   if you   let's say you took the approach of, the MrBeast or other that are similar where, you know, you're trying to make it as entertaining as possible for somebody else. And part of that means   spending   money and doing things and a lot of effort to make it. And some people do make it successful,   some don't. And the metric of success may be mean like they can continue to do it and whatever else. And some people get lucky, you know, probably PewDiePie is one of those who's  

[00:33:16] Kyrin Down:

mostly did it just for himself. And it just so happens that   this coincided with   the audience really gravitating towards him as a person. And those, you know,  

[00:33:27] Juan Granados:

Sam Sillick, the you know, the type of creations that he did was just like,   long form forty five, fifty minute type of things where he just got microphone on   him, driving to the gym, Jiming, going home, eating, doing shopping.   And he just built a   good, huge following   just because it kind of hit the particular target market. And again, he had a conversation with Chris Williams and a long ago, and they were kind of talking about   unlikely that anybody else is really going to be able to make something similar to that because it's just not some of your usual way of people getting behind and wanting to watch something, right? You don't want to watch forty five minutes or fifty minutes of someone just driving to the gym, but just the way that he was talking and maybe pursuing the bodybuilding that he was doing, it just hit a particular niche. And I think it's   there there definitely is aspects of luck. There's aspects of just having to put the effort and be present otherwise, like, it's not gonna happen regardless.  

But at least for me, and it kinda sounds like for you, we enjoy doing it in a way that the cadence fits in our life.   We are able to do the things that we care about. Again, we get   two, three times a week requests to have people on the podcast for an interview. And   I think I might've replied to one out of 200 that have come our way. And a lot of them are just your general type of like They're very generic. They're they're they're from people who have not listened to the podcast. Well, and and they will generally And this is how it works mostly, you know Some,   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But in the in the general, like podcasting loud, again, in in the middle mark, it's usually, you know, you've got your companies who basically advertise like, hey, we can get you on podcasts that people will go and pay this particular company and this company will go and do web searches and whatever and just send out, you know, a thousand emails and be like, I'm gonna get you on 10 podcasts. I get it. I get it. Hi, Mia.  

So there's lots of ways that obviously we could get people on the podcast, but again, it's down to what do we value? What do we care about? And we'll we'll we'll chat about that point from Carl around what are we choosing to double down into the future and what that actually looks like. Sure. There's a there's a comment here from Patricia saying I remember when Karyn used to wear different hats. Well,  

[00:35:34] Kyrin Down:

well, well, well, it's funny you say that. Where where is it? I remember Karyn's wear different hats. Where's my hat? Where's the other one? Where'd it go? Am I sitting on it?   I'll be sitting on it. I have a new one here.  

[00:35:45] Juan Granados:

You sitting on it? I don't think so.  

[00:35:48] Kyrin Down:

Oh, I can't see it, though.   Come  

[00:35:51] Juan Granados:

on. Yeah. Dude.  

[00:35:54] Kyrin Down:

It's under the couch under the couch. One steal my glasses last night and I've already seen this hat appear in multiple places where it shouldn't be because he's trying   to steal it. Here's a new hat for you. Patricia is   fresh. Brain, so you have.   I'll give him a shout out because,   sure. That's what these sort of things are for. It's the friend collective.   So so's and friends. Good times only. Too tired to run.   Friend Collective.   Very nice hat. I'm the Sosos. Unbelievable.   There's there's yeah, but yes, there are there are more hats. There are more hats to come. But yeah, yeah. Another little fun, fun thing for people.   If you're looking at any of the episodes from I don't know, 01/1950   to March Probably.  

There was a period where Juan and I were doing double episodes, but we'd record at the same time. But just to make it  

[00:36:43] Juan Granados:

a bit different,  

[00:36:45] Kyrin Down:

we'd change shirts in between recordings. That's right. That's right. No one knew. No one knew. Yeah. Despite everything in the background, they're exactly identical. They're like raining, sunny  

[00:36:56] Juan Granados:

all the time.   Alright. We'll go into the Bootscram Lounge and we do have the one that I'll call out for you. We had a we had a couple from,   again, the the book reviews, Bootstrap, and that's usually just the form of,   it says it's a Bootstrap. It's actually just streams coming through,   on on some of the latest book reviews there. But the one that I wanted to call out was from Cole, and we didn't read it out, last time, but I'll read it from the conversation we're talking about with Karen and his approaches and talking to girls. Cole says, Karen, the next time a girl flakes and you message her and say, you're a flake   noted   And let us sit in her shit. 03:33   sat sent using fountains. So thank you very much, Cole. Thank you, Cole.  



[00:37:36] Kyrin Down:

Have you used that line yet? I've not used that. The problem with a lot of these things where you're like,   I'll do this and then this will happen   is usually that doesn't happen.   Yeah, that   the   the mind reading or being able to predict how conversations will go.   Honestly,   probably a big fault of mine.   I'm coming more and more to the aspect of the reason I don't like going out at night. We went out on Friday.   It was great at,   you know, five. What time did we get out? Six 05:30PM. And   from 05:30 until probably like eight   or   07:30 something. Really enjoyed it. Like casual drink. There's a lot of people around things like that. Soon as it gets after like dark time, the freaks come out   stuck and drunk. And then   I started to get uncomfortable at like   how it wasn't even loose, but   the amount of just like random   stuff that could happen,   it's   it certainly feels like, all right, there's a lot less in my control here. And that's probably why I get uncomfortable in   two stimulating   loud nightclub environments.  

People dancing around bumpy to people   falling over.   I think that level of control   is well, it's out of control. It's too much for me. So   I have in the past done what Cole suggested of trying to control a conversation, make a person feel a certain way. I don't think it will work. It will work. And honestly, I don't want to make someone feel bad if they're a flake, they're a flake. You know, fuck them. I don't want them in my life.   There's no need to make them feel bad. Leave them to be flake. I probably won't be saying that, Cole,   but I appreciate the advice. The support. Yeah. Yeah.  



[00:39:24] Juan Granados:

And yes, Kyren continues his journey of   the good approaches to people. And thank you very much, mum, commenting. Yes, Kyren got plenty of, of different hats to come. Very good. She said afterwards. And that was what the beanie is. So for those who are just wondering,  

[00:39:39] Kyrin Down:

the call sent in a message directly using his podcasting app. Wow. Fantastic. So go to somewhere like Fountain where he did it. Yep. And you can send a message directly to us has some Bitcoin   attached to it. And so   we appreciate that. Right?  

[00:39:54] Juan Granados:

Hoard that and then send it on to other podcasters. Usually we don't talk about this. I haven't talked about this for ages either as well. But if you   send through enough   of Instagrams, right? Enough. Correct. Come through.  

[00:40:06] Kyrin Down:

You also get a Mee Immortals shirt. It's just cheaper now. It's only $150  

[00:40:12] Juan Granados:

T shirt. So yeah, it has come down in price. In size. Small or medium. It's in discount. It's on discount. If you want to,   if you've been keeping up with anything that's been going in cryptocurrency world.  

[00:40:22] Kyrin Down:

Let's start with that. The   going forward   with the podcast, what are some things we'll double down on   format,   stuff like that,   the support mechanism   and how we do that as well. Sure. So I   if you go back in the past, I spent a lot of time on podcasting two point zero and value for value. And   the,   like I said, that was the thing that made me realize, like, holy shit, Bitcoin's important. Like, this is going to change the world and is   very, very useful.   The latest update from all of that is,   technology is also really, really hard and gaining of   a technology   adoption,   What things will   work well in the long term   versus things that are just short term hyped? AI, is it going to take over the world right now? Are we in a bubble? Everyone's asking if we're in a bubble. We're probably not in the bubble yet. It's when everyone doesn't think that we're in a bubble. Yeah. And when everyone capitulates and goes like, we're not in a bubble, I got to invest now. That's when the bubble.  

And   so I've been talking about lightning for a long time, which is the layer two Bitcoin,   All of this stuff, there was the   whole   podcasting two point zero was using this thing called key send, which was like a variation of the protocol.   Turns out only podcasting two point zero is the ones using it. Everyone else is using this thing called ln pay instead. And so there's going to have to be a big switch over fountains doing all this stuff in the back end.   People are not getting boosts, boosts are going missing.   How are we going to get the metadata through all this sort of stuff?  

It's complex.   I definitely   have kind of recounted   some of my beliefs in terms of like, everyone's going to use value for value, and   it'll be through RSS and things like this.   I'm less sure of that as possible. I think the future will still be,   certainly the future I want to be part of is one where it's,   open, decentralized,   you know, nonsense and sorrios.   So putting things into an RSS feed is still, I think, the best way forward for that. But   but how the,   actual monetization   for creators going forward into the future,   I'm less certain of that as I once was. I really thought it was going to be a value for value thing.  

It could be a subscription   that's just more fair a. K. A. When you subscribe to Spotify, most of your money's going to Taylor Swift, even if you don't listen to her.   And,   how that model will   shape up and create this this thing called Sora on the base network where it's every piece of content is a fucking coin and you can buy shares in this coin and part of it goes back to the career. I don't know. Maybe that maybe that would work. I doubt it, but maybe   so   that whole thing of how we're going to   get support going forward could change. Could change rather dramatically.   So just keeping keep an ear out and eye out for what we say. You heard it here first. Karen's going to turn to advertising. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Advertising's coming to. That's that's one thing that probably won't change. She would have said near you. If,  

[00:43:48] Juan Granados:

it's it's an interesting so I guess, before we get into, like, while we double down on that, the the concept of advertising,   right? It's still   because, the reason I wanted to bring it up is I saw a creator   on Instagram   in particular, I need to start to create some longer form stuff. And he's funny. Like, he he just makes he makes fun of other people who are doing, like, core selling and stuff like that. And and I've gone through almost, like, all of his videos. I really enjoyed it. And and in one of the latest ones he did it. And of course he got introduced. I got an ad into it as part of the thing.   And it made it not funny. It made it like kind of terrible. Will I stop   watching the videos? Not necessarily, but if each one of them had that   kind of annoying add to it, maybe maybe I would. I kinda see it in the same way with us where it's like, if we introduce   ads into this particular channel,   it would turn me off somewhat just like it does for me when I I've talked to you about it like Tumblr, you used to do it and it frustrated the hell out of me and others.  

It's little.   And I think some people can get into the path of thinking like, ah, but it doesn't matter. Like, you know, a lot of people do up people making money from it. So like you can do that. It's like, yes,   but and then the ultimate bit on the butt is   the monetary aspect of it. Like, say if it was specific   is different to support,   right? So it's slightly different because I guess you could you could think of support as yes monetary aspects to it. But ideally what I start to think about more and more is   moving into the future,   I want to leverage this as a platform   or support for other things that I might do now. May that be a business? Might that be an idea? Might that be a whatever, you know, whatever it might look like. It could be throwing shit out here. I've created a movie, if I wrote a book.  

Those are things I would want the audience who have been providing some sort of value for many, many, many years.   That's where support would be, you know, best suited for. And yes, I might have a monastery benefit to it. It's it's not top of mind for you. But directly but directly to the content that we create and trying to leverage it in the way of an advertising model that doesn't scream to me as kind of like the right path for it. It's it's it just seems like an extra   blocker or an extra gate to just be able to provide content and conversation with people so that.   Yeah. We don't we don't see that happening anytime soon. The  

[00:46:11] Kyrin Down:

advertising   and AI is going to be really, really interesting.   I'm   I'm   very,   I'm keeping a close eye on   on that   story of when it develops, aka   when open AI   starts putting advertising into their,   their models and how that'll show up? Is it just going to be like, in Google search, where you type in something,   it spits out a response, and then maybe on the side that they've got links,   and these are perhaps affiliate links, or these are sponsored links.   Oh, God. What's going on? Oh, no. Jesus. My phone's just going off. The AI phones off. Jeez. That and that does not happen often. That's that's weird.   The   that listing shit. Gotta watch my. Coming.  

I'm going to double down on recording these just so you guys can see when the AI is take me out.   That's the reason. Yeah.  

[00:47:05] Juan Granados:

You hear here first, Khan did not commit suicide. Everybody did not commit. That's all I'm talking about. Just recently. It was Elon Musk on Joe Regan's podcast being like just what I'm stating it plainly. I did not commit suicide if anything happens to me. Yeah, sure. The but yeah, I meant I and governments and advertising is going to be   fucking crazy. I think that's there's big, big things coming. Well, yeah, even I mean, it doesn't obviously apply to us now, but it'll be interesting what'll happen in Australia next year with the fact that Instagram, Facebook, Reddit. Is it next year? I thought it was in December or something. December this year. December this year, but I'm just kind of saying next year. It probably won't take full effect until next year. But, you know, Reddit, YouTube, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all of them. You can't get into it if you're under 16 years old. Yeah. Now, of course, there's gonna be ways to try and get around  

[00:47:53] Kyrin Down:

that but that's gonna be a VPN.  

[00:47:54] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Yeah. But the   the proposing a ban even on that in Australia. On VPN. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For next year. Which it's like Yeah. That'll be good. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a it's gonna be an interesting yeah. There's a lot of interesting things obviously in the on the AI and how to play some marketing but all I'm saying  

[00:48:10] Kyrin Down:

is I just think we we're gonna say clear of that. Yes. I'm I'm still very committed to zero advertising. Correct. On anything that I that I do. Yeah. Yeah. Look. And and,  

[00:48:18] Juan Granados:

again, I'll be if we are creating things ourselves, then yeah, we'll probably market that because our fucking shit. Kinda like, the one I like is   Nick Bey. So Nick Bey does have   ads   or market reads if you want marketing stuff, but it's all these products. It's all these things. Sometimes we'll have a conversation about   endurance and they will talk about how black we're creating this new product of Allison. Might have go for fucking ten minutes. And I will often skip it. Sometimes I'll listen in if it's in relation to what he's talking about. But the critical thing that I do find different that is like, it's all his shit. It's all the stuff that he's like creating. So I don't mind too much. Same with, not that I listened to much of Jocko Willink anymore, but Jocko's   at the end of each podcast, I don't know if they still do this. They used to read out for, like, twenty minutes or half an hour, like, ads. Like, just what things have got going but they made it so fun each and every time I'd be like that was usually like the fun bits of the podcast. I'd be like hell yeah. So I could get behind that at some point in time but yeah for the for the immediacy of the future. Sure. Obviously not there. What what are things what what are we what are we going to be doubling down? So I'm doubling down on not doing the podcast, to be honest. I'm doubling I'm doubling down on  

[00:49:26] Kyrin Down:

personal life. That's that's that's   my   thing at the moment. Now that is selfish   in terms of the podcasting term. But   a lot of the stuff that is interesting about us anyway, I feel is   off podcast. And then it's just like the podcast is a reflection of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If someone   is the thing with comedians, apparently   the larger they get and then if they start hitting the road and all they do is comedy,   all of their jokes are about playing food and hotels, because that's their life. They just become   a comedian on the road. And so they can only joke about comedian on the road   things.  

So they can't joke about the interesting   origami,   something that they they learned or the random situation they got to while traveling because they can't travel. Or they are only traveling to cities   to   perform. So   it's selfish in a sense where it's like, okay, I'll have much more interesting things to talk about with you   with the wife and kids. And then we can relate about wife and kids things, for example. So,   yeah, for me, doubling down on   personal stuff at the moment,   which includes   the like I'm   becoming a burgeoning art collector.   And so I'm spending a lot of time   doing that. And in fact. I almost bought some  

[00:50:58] Juan Granados:

I almost bought some art at an auction last night. Oh, really? Okay. Missed out on it. But I'll tell you the other. Yeah, sure.  

[00:51:05] Kyrin Down:

Off here. So, for those,   this is somewhat podcast related in the sense that it is,   related to social media and the   what would you call it   Expression, the,   I was going to say advertising then, but not advertising, marketing of the podcast   in that,   we do have the Twitter mere mortals pods, but I've also started up a mere Morpheus one and I've got a now a personal one called iron down,   which   is   I'm starting to   be a bit more active on these things, for example, and they kind of all linked together. So   the   I'm spending a lot of time at the moment,   or what I call it sectioning off   portions of the podcast into various things. So the mere mortals podcast is about   the conversations between you and I, it's probably more technology,   a little bit about macro finance and,   you know, fitness.  

The mere Morpheus one that's purely anything AI related. I'm leaving over there. Curran down one is probably going to be the art and books sort of section.   And, you know, maybe in the future I'd create another one, which is   a fitness one, for example, or something.   So. Karen's been threatening to do the fitness one. Yeah. I mean, look, I'd probably just use the mere mortals in motion. I   don't see any reason of why I would create a whole new different one.   So the   there is I guess, like a   it's podcast related in that it's sectioning off the my interest into   more definable,   easily encounterable places,   all of them feeding back into the mere mortals brand.  

But they're a lot more separate   and   just easy to interact with. Because I think if someone comes in, for example,   completely fresh, what's the mere mortals about? Well, fuck, you're gonna have a rough time trying to figure out what we've got going on.   We've got a fair few things going on. So making it easier, I think, for people to   come into our world   is probably something I would want to double down on going forward.   And,   you know, if I can leverage AI to be able to make that easier,   with the   media Morpheus stuff. And then there's, you know, on the,   the X channels that I've got going on, things like that, that that's something I want to make better with the podcast. Yeah, an easier access point for people to come in,   hopefully find out everything else about us. But there's going to be,   you know, I've been thinking about doing a VeeFriends down under sort of thing for a while now   that that would be when I've figured out more of my social life and my personal life a bit more.  

It's something I'd like to get to. But yeah, that's that's kind of what I envision a bit more for the future of us, but certainly doing the regular episodes with you. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think so.  

[00:54:09] Juan Granados:

The the the episodes, the 9AM on Sundays, I think, fits from   a cadence perspective,   fit life perspective,   in terms of the type of conversations that you said because you're not doing book reviews   at at the time. You know, bringing those sort of learnings into that. You get conversations out of it. Yeah. I mean, that's our very first episode was a A book review basically. Yeah. So, you know, and and you're right. It's the   if I was gonna say anything of the doubling down   of the podcast, it is just to do more interesting things as a as a person. Like, I think that   a big part of why a lot of individuals would probably tune into us   is to hear interesting or   fun   topics, stories, conversations.  

I I seldom think that anyone's gonna come and listen to the mere mortals to learn about   the latest transistors   or   evals for AI. No. You don't do that. When   I listen to Peter Diamandis and his group of people talking about, WTF,   in technology because they are talking about the latest stories, the latest information, they're like   in the know with with, you know, Ray Kurzweil and stuff like that. Like they know all these people and are talking about the very latest bleeding edge stuff. That is enough. That's not how we exist. And I think if people were going to tune into us, there's going to be have to be a level of interest of doing things that makes us   a delta difference to somebody else again with the be immortals.  

So it is just about, you know, average individuals talking about interesting things, but there's going to be interesting things to talk about. So, you know, if we literally were just   nine to five people   where we did that and we had a couple of drinks on a Friday and a couple of drinks on Saturday and talking about accounting  

[00:55:47] Kyrin Down:

Sally at the work.  

[00:55:49] Juan Granados:

Yeah, like it's not   there's it would become really repetitive really quickly and   there's aspects of our life right now that just by default is different and that we do talk about different things. Sure.   But once again, if we did that enough time, it will become repetitive. So   it's more reflecting on   doing different interesting things, us as humans,   so that those stories can be portrayed and new learnings, new insights, new conversations picked up. But I will say specifically, I guess, because I know Carl is probably still wondering. Yeah. But what are you gonna double down? At least for me personally,   I know that next year, so   I do annual goals. Right? So it's kind of different. So I do annual goals for my for my birthday.  

But I have been thinking just as I have 2026. So just an easy thing for me right now just because timing wise all the way till the end of the year, it won't really work. But I might, I'm not saying I will, I might be committing myself to more interviews,   and that might include more online interviews as well. So like I mentioned, there are a lot of you get those three, you know, three a week type of emails that's like, Hey, you know, this person, this person. And I'll say   maybe once a month, I will see something and be like,   that could be interesting. That could be interesting conversation.  

But I've purely just said no in the sense of,   I don't have the time. I don't have the setup. All those sort of things. Whereas now   I do have the time and I could make the setup very easily. And we've used Riverside before in the past. Yeah, I could see myself reusing that, like just getting it and using it for a year just to try it out again. And it would be better now because they do the dual scripts split screen thing. That was asking forever. Forever and ever. So we couldn't do it. The technology. Fuck. They could do it. That's fine. Just like that company. But I think it's going to be interviews. I think it's going to be and I won't call it interviews. This is going to be more conversations.   If, again, if I had to demonstrate   what I would see at least a lot of the content that I will myself start creating more,   I see towards someone like a Sam Sillick and a Chris Williamson as a distinctive thing because I've actually really been enjoying doing the mere mortals in motion. They're really easy, like, really easy to put together because it's just   top of mind going somewhere, recording a couple of things that I'm doing. They're usually pretty short. I could see myself doing them longer if I've I've had to set it up in a particular way.  

Easy. And so I think there might be some joy in people just saying that, kinda like the repetitive. I'm not doing it daily, and I won't get to doing it daily unless such like a ridiculous demand for it. But doing it with enough cadence would be fun. The reason I think I also wanna do that is that there are,   again, ideas in my mind of things to do businesses and whatever. And I would love to document them when the time is right and when things are progressing that way. But I always have an itchy feeling of how much I demonstrate and how much I don't. So it's part of that. But the other one is,   you mentioned it way earlier,   the confidence, but now the ability to have conversations or interviews with people that I want to is actually quite easy.  

Actually, quite interestingly easy. Yes. I can't get   Elon Musk or Jordan Peterson.   Whoever inside who are Mariah Carey. No. I can't get any of these people in for a conversation. But   people who   are doing great things or doing really interesting things I kinda wanna talk about,   it's pretty straightforward now to get them onto the podcast. And that's just I think by virtue of just being around for a long time, having the confidence that you can reach out to some people and be like, hey, I wanna have this conversation.   You know, I've had now three conversations interviews in the last two months with people that maybe once upon a time I would have had to say, like, oh, you know, we do this and, you know, I can get this value.  

We're now feel very comfortable. Just be like,   just come out of the conversation. I mean, I'm interested in these things. There's probably going to be people who are interested in that sort of thing. I've got another one coming up in December with someone I've had in the podcast before. And again, it was a starting a new business in the supplement space. And I basically just like, Hey, I'm interested in this. I'm keen to understand how you're going. It was cool chatting to you last time. Let's talk. And recently I saw a particular I went I went call out his name. I saw him go on   two different people's podcasts and I was like, oh, he's like, interesting. Cool cat,   seems to speak well, come from an interesting background, and has done some cool things. And I messaged him, when we were having drinks on Friday. I saw it. I saw it. I was like, oh, that's kinda cool. Directly message him, little compliment, and I was like, Hey, we also tee up a conversation.  

He was like, Cool. Let's do it. I'm really busy, like, all this year, but early next year,   hit me up and we can do it. Sure. I was like, Sure. Cool. So I think more of that. If I'm gonna double down on effort, there's gonna be that. And similarly, you got a compliment on the last conversation that I did where, you know, I prepped,   maybe an hour, an hour of time, maybe maybe even more, maybe an hour and a half. And similarly came into it with knowing what sort of questions have been asked before and what might be a little bit different. And at the end of the conversation, the individual was like,   man, like,   oh, so cool. Like, you you like all these various things that are already talked about and whatnot. So we kind of discovered or, like, talked about different topics. So stuff like that,   made fun. Like, I I enjoy that. I and I and I like, I mean, maybe people haven't,   understood this about me, but I like talking to people. Like, I like talking. So   having conversations with people, especially since I work from home all the time, it's enjoyable. It's nice to do that as well. Yeah. So I was just thinking  

[01:01:04] Kyrin Down:

if someone wanted to compare us to someone, I've got a recommendation.   You can. There's a guy called Eduardo Lima.   Eduardo   Lima.   He is   like us in many respects.   And what I like about him is he's he's kind of like   he doesn't have the polish of anything. So I believe he has a podcast, but his YouTube channel is the main one. And he's   a guy who has very   eclectic taste in things. So like,   over the I've scrolled through, like, his   years of posting stuff. There'll be times where he was all about the Marines and leadership and learning how to be a Marine.   There was a time when he was really into the,   like learning cryptocurrencies   and things. And like there's a real famous video   famous, strong word because it's only got a couple of thousand views, but it's him buying an x copy piece for $10   Because it was on sale. Wow, it was on it was $20. And he was like, I'm gonna buy it because it's like half price if you buy it right now.  

And he sold that I think last year for a million plus.   So he's is someone who's like,   early to things but not like,   braggadocious about it as well. It's just like   he says he records things for prosperity. That's that's why he does   it. So it's not the arts and the glamour and stuff, but he'll   have conversations with other people.   He's   yeah. Into   just just this eclectic stuff. But it's not it's kind of if you've heard about him for the first time, it's kind of hard to get into. He does book reviews as well. Yeah. So   he's kind of   I like that. I like that about him.  

I and I feel we're similar in that respect, but I would just love to have a bit more of an easy access for people to come into.   And   yeah, that's that's kind of   a lot of my philosophy as well. It's like   I want to do   interesting things for my own sake, and it's not necessarily   the flashy upfront.   Hey, I'm the best at this. Like, learn. You can learn how to handstand as well. You can learn how to speak Spanish or this is how I traveled across the world, blah, blah, blah.   I like more the hidden aspect of it, of people like finding that out, just being like, Holy shit, I can't speak Spanish really well. Damn, I didn't even know. So, yeah, that's kind of a, I guess, like a motivation  

[01:03:31] Juan Granados:

somewhat of how I operate as well. Sure. Yeah. There are there's two more. There's not doubling down, but it just kind of like looking into the future. There's   two things that come to mind that I want. One, I want to get better at just because I think it would be a beneficial skill to have and something that might become   important   in years time. The other one is I just think that's it's where the trend is going to get to eventually as well in a in a broader way. The one   is   speaking. So again, we've done 500 episodes of this  

[01:04:03] Kyrin Down:

1,000 plus. I still say arms,   like, well,  

[01:04:08] Juan Granados:

no, I do more in the sense of with a camera in front of us and just talking between us and even with, you   know, interviewing with somebody else and having things set up all over the place. Yeah. It's almost like nothing is it's supremely easy to do. Having Huda, I can't even remember   if it was like episode 50 or episode 70 or something where it just started becoming a non piece to the equation, but it was very much like nothing very easy to do that. Now, what hasn't been though is speaking, if it was   twenty, fifty, one hundred, a thousand people in person.  

I think that particular as a skill set will become   more important over time.   This is a my thought process and I just don't do that at all anymore. Why? Because   I'm I do   talk to people and sometimes I present with   200 people that's online and that's very, very different. And so like, I'm super comfortable in that space,   but 200 people, a thousand people in person, very different. I don't have those opportunities anymore in my life. I just don't work in places where I'm going to be put into that position.   I think, how can I do that?  

How how do I do that?   The podcast would be a phenomenal way to do it in some other in some format. I don't know what that looks like. But the second one is   I I do believe one of them Gary's talked about this,   the connecting   from Gen Z, your dead alpha, I've heard it in other conversations around,   you know, after COVID, it's been enough years now, and then there probably has been a trend to be more   community and in groups and in social structures   and whatnot. And I go, it would be fun to try and do  

[01:05:43] Kyrin Down:

events of some kind, even though events for us like we we hate organizing. Yeah. I can't try doing this. What was going through my mind just then was an AI thing because one of my goals this month was to go to an AI meetup with Juan. I looked at a whole bunch of things, zero of them of interest. And I just went, man, I could create something that   I feel  

[01:06:02] Juan Granados:

at least some people would be interested in. So and so what I'm thinking about and again, this is I'm saying this out loud, and it's not something that I'm going to do.   But it might be an interesting thing to do. And again, from a personal perspective,   it might be fun.   Let's take the AI option and and then we're talking here in Brisbane, right, of going like, well,   why don't we try and reach out to someone   that's of interest in AI, maybe local, maybe not to go like, hey, we got nine one, like a group setting, just   can we gather a person that can present on it and talk about it? That's something like quite interesting   and   then get, you know, put out something around   getting a group together of people to go and see it. It AKA for us here in Brisbane, the,   the Bitcoin group used to do this quite often and, monthly cadence, something to that effect where they'd have a couple of people having a conversation about a topic and then you'd have people   go to it usually with a free event it was kind of sponsored by a particular set of people,   or groups or companies and they do it.  

It's   floated in my mind to think about those things now that does take a lot of effort. Yes. It does take a lot of time   and   what is the benefit if you want to talk financial benefit or anything else very low. Yeah. If if none   so you know   to do that, it would be a real   wanting this to deliver like real direct value to not just ourselves, but other people.   And again, it's not like I'm doubling down on that. It's a I do want to get more of that speaking   in with a a larger group. I honestly can't think of other ways besides doing that or purposely putting myself up for, like, other Sure. Yeah. You know, like a conference or something, which I yeah. I'm kinda like, I I don't see that being valuable to me. So,   yeah, I'm not sure. Not sure. That's just like another call out as like an idea of things   to might come.  

But we'll see. Talking with, so Orlando,   one of the things Orlando sent to G conversation will come out next week. One One of the reasons that he started his his closest cult or the sales channel that he's doing is partly because he wants to grow it or he wants to have enough of a connection   with people so that   wherever he travels in the world, he can catch up with people. And I thought that was like, it was a cooler. It was a very   his answer to that was very different to what I expected. Yes. Partly for sure. There's money aspect to it. But for him, he found it really enjoyable that he went to Europe and he was in like Norway and he was able to catch up with someone who had connected with him and then he went to The USA and did the same thing. And he's a bit of a gypsy like he travels a lot and he traveled a lot when he was a younger kid. So he wants to continue that and that's really valuable to him. That would be valuable to me, not at all, but I could see a lot of value in gathering groups of people about   surrounded with a particular concept in mind or an idea.  



[01:08:46] Kyrin Down:

But that's a lot of effort. That's a lot of effort to put that together and the reasoning around that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's, yeah, because it's like, oh, if you want to go to conferences, well, then you probably need to build up a social profile that is worthy of them being like, all right, this guy is popular. So we'll bring him to a conference to speak in front of people. You want to do it in terms of like you're the one organizing the things.   Yeah. You could then.   Yeah, then you have to learn how to like hire out of space.   What are you doing?  

Too many people show up or not enough show up and then   okay, even then I was thinking like, oh, what if we we did something like this where it's like, you know, this but outdoors   where there's maybe like a ten fifteen twenty seat capacity, and you can   make it into podcast content,   record it at the same time while having a live audience.   All of that just requires so much time and effort. A lot of effort.  

[01:09:41] Juan Granados:

Damn people. A lot of why is it so much effort? When you mere mortalize at home, you're like, you're like, Yeah, I like you. So look, what you're gonna find is what we're gonna, we're gonna keep having these conversations, we're gonna continue trying to be interesting or doing interesting things, because that's a good thing for us.   I wouldn't call it evolving. We're just trying to continue to be mere mortals living in a world and absolutely observing and understanding.   I think that there's gonna be a lot of value for individuals just listening into that. And again, the way that you support us   multiple ways. Boost games obviously steal the availability to do that. But sharing, give me a cake for the 500. So thank you very much, man, for surprising us with the cake. That's all that's also the thing as well. Patricia the cake master. Yeah. I don't think there's anything else, any other comments that I call out. So my my pause it there, my leave it there. So once again, appreciate everyone who comes in live for these sessions as well, putting in the comments, whether you're listening to it afterwards or you're listening to it live,   do appreciate all the time. And probably a handful of people still around who've been here for the six plus years.  

That's crazy. That's not that a lot of again,   that's like Yeah. Six hundred and six plus years now. Yeah. We actually have six. So much time that's been invested in there. And I will that was one of the other stat that I didn't   note,   but this is just in the podcast, not on the video. So I don't know about the video, but there's over 20,000 unique listeners on the video on the on the podcast side of things from an audio perspective. That's only in the last year and a half, let's just say. So shout out to all you bots out there. Yeah. So it's interesting. It's not just like five people listening to this forever in a day. There's there'd be some bots, but I think they try and get rid of it. Get rid of it as much as possible. Yeah. Love it. Love it. I'll leave it. I'll leave it there. I'll say don't worry about sats. Focus on the valley. Focus on the feeling. And if we've made you feel good, then. And let us know. Reach out. We love hearing from you. Yep. Be more lites. Be well. Take care wherever you are in the world. Wine out. Tone out. Good.