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Why is it basically impossible to find any modern books with some sort of 'politics' thrown in?

In Episode #467 of 'Musings' Juan and I discuss: how recent events are often presented with a bias rather than factual accuracy, the reliability of recent publications re-reading old books and get a bit sidetracked in the realm of education (specifically literature in schooling).

No support this week, very sad puppy :'(

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:28) Book Preferences And Trends
(00:04:46) Opinions in Recent History Books
(00:12:20) Practical Implications Of Opinions
(00:15:01) Facts Vs Opinions In Literature
(00:20:14) Communication Styles
(00:23:47) Rereading Vs New Books
(00:25:47) Boostagram Lounge
(00:31:03) Literature In School Education
(00:39:05) Future Of Reading And Literacy
(00:52:07) Homeschooling Side Tangent
(00:58:01) Complexity Of Historical Facts
(01:00:22) Summaries

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[00:00:07] Juan Granados:

Welcome back, mere mortalites. This is the mere mortals podcast. You've got Juan here, Kyrin here, and this is the 15th December. We've got musings as well, mere mortalites. Now today the topic, it was something that I picked up, which is gonna be opinions  

[00:00:20] Kyrin Down:

versus facts. Deciphering opinion from facts. Deciphering opinion. Why do you both fail the kairin test? Oh, no. Why? Why? Yeah. Which, look, we'll talk about  

[00:00:29] Juan Granados:

why they fail,   why they might not be good, maybe some things about literacy,  

[00:00:33] Kyrin Down:

etcetera. Exactly. So this is a re recorded intro just because the the starter ones suffered   a little malfunction,   but we're gonna just dive into where my little monologue at the start here. So   enjoy.   I mean, look, it's not even that much.   I was I was going through like a little mental calculation of how much of the content I consume, just   information general wise. It's only a tiny little bit stuff from books and   and go back to some old YouTube videos, but   probably   95%   have been published in the last month in terms of YouTube stuff as well.   Music.  

I don't know if I can   some of that is like older stuff as well, but I listen to a lot of newer stuff.   But in particular, yeah, maybe let's start on the books and then we can.   It's it's yeah. So,   so in particular,   for those who haven't joined on the Mirror Models Book Reviews Channel,   I do probably 4 5ths of them. So for every 4, I do 1 wonders 1.   And   the general theme of that is   I tend to pick older books that   have at least 2 decades.   There's no real that's more of a thing that's just popped up as in that's what I was doing. And then I realized, oh, okay, like I'm actually trending more towards the older stuff.   And the reason for that is actually what I touched upon in one of the latest book reviews, which was on this history book.  

And so that was the   Square in the Tower by   Neil Ferguson, I think. And   that book was,   first of all,   what a random history like, Bitpump FM was the guy who recommended it to me because I was talking about some open source projects and different   types of,   not governance, but   the   like regulations   and things like this. And then is like, oh, yeah, you might be interested in this. It's about hierarchies and all right. Yeah, sure. I'll give it a give it a shot. Hierarchies versus networks.   And it was   just weird.   It just seemed   it certainly like was on   the   the topic   of networks and hierarchies, but the history presented in there was just chaotic. It's just everywhere. I didn't didn't see a message or meaning in it, but that was fine. I learned a little bit of interesting history facts. You know,   Germans tried to   convince   some Muslims in World War 1, I believe, was to, like, create a,   like a, it's not fatwa.  

What was it called when they like,   I like asking for a caliphate or trying to spark up a revolution as a particular,   Islam word Islamic. I can't remember. Anyway, I just thought that was really interesting. I was like, oh, the Germans were actually like kind of buddy buddy with the Ottoman Empire. I vaguely knew that, but some of the details were cool.   But then he was just talking about the recent history, and it was particularly Donald Trump. And then he's like throwing out jabs at PewDiePie   for being a. Yeah. This is all. From the end of the book. Yeah. Just just these one off little   snippets   where I'm like,   I know that's wrong. I've watched a lot of PewDiePie. He's not an anti Semite.  

That's so fucking stupid. Wall Street Journal should be ashamed of themselves.   The coverage they did of that and,   whatever you think about Donald Trump, like   he gets into a bit of that and it's like, okay, well,   like, I don't really care about this, but   Russiagate, who was talking about that,   which from what I'm aware of, I tried looking into that as well. And this is the thing.   I think the recent history   books,   recent a lot of recent books, especially if they're on modern topics, so   politics,   particularly   particularly politics, but you know, chucking religion, they're chucking news, chucking war, chucking technology,   even.  

It's, it's not   about the actual   topic itself. It's   people aren't addressing like facts of this happened. And then   and then just   extrapolating from that it's more about   give my opinion. And then it's related to this this thing. Yeah, like kind of connected, but I'm leveraging the  

[00:05:03] Juan Granados:

fact. And not actually speaking about it, but just telling you my opinion that's kind of on the on the side. So just for example, the Russiagate thing, which was the  

[00:05:11] Kyrin Down:

that Donald Trump colluded with Russians   to rig the 2016 election in his favor by having   social media posts   organized by Russian bots   to influence the sway of Americans   blur like big, big fucking thing right there.   Yep. I'm like, okay.   It's almost a decade since then.   Maybe I can sort this out. Now. I can have a little bit of a look. It's that's that's history now.   But   I went on news places, I went on Reddit, I went on a couple of different places. And I could not figure out   if this how how much validity was still there to this. People were still arguing on Reddit about this as of a month ago.   And I just go like, well,   how can I even know? How can I even figure this out? And   it's kind of like,   do I need to figure this out? Is it that important? No, not really. Is it going to affect my life at all? Certainly not.  

So I should probably just stay away from the whole topic. And so that kind of translate that into   recent   news, for example. Yeah. So   it's it's a it's a it's a it's almost like a pragmatic thing because I don't trust in my ability as well to be able to sort out  

[00:06:30] Juan Granados:

people's opinions. Like, the concern from being like full reality   to actual fiction. By the way, my mic is back on and working. Yeah. So you should turn it off. Yeah. Well, I don't I'm not sure. I'm not sure it wasn't. I don't think I switched it off, but It was coming through before. Confirmed that it's coming through. Okay. That's it. So, I mean, similarly   on my side, to be honest,   in terms of, I guess I,   unlike Karen from a book's perspective, I do keep   the focus   on,   I have trended not to go to all the books, but in newer books,   more I think that's more so with   the individuals that I also   listen to on a more current basis and want to get the most current information on   X topics.  

And it isn't to say that it's not found in all the books   for show. And for a large amount of times,   they are just rehashing   all their information, all the stories into their own format, which I like, but it does pose a problem, as you correctly say that   opinions can become   much more easier to,   I guess, interject in the subject,   Because   the test of time would have drawn out a lot of those things. If there was a book that was done 200 I'm sure there was a book that was on 200 years ago about some very current topic,   whether it be political or something in nature.  

Probably most people just don't know about it because over 10 times time, like over time, one, it's relevancy just became less or so the importance of the information is no longer relevant. And 3, maybe it was opinion based. And that opinion just is valid now centuries later. So   the there is more difficulty, I would say, in some of the books,   I guess, in general information that I consume now   because who is to say that, oh, that actually is just going to be absolutely useless,   not going to be relevant, something like sperm wars   in a few years time and actually, but just learned that and put that information in there for nothing. Yes, that's a formative one that I keep talking about  

[00:08:35] Kyrin Down:

sperm wars is book I read,   which was about   that you think it's the most fact based thing ever.   Biology   of humans   and contraception,   why we make mating choices, how those mating choices  

[00:08:51] Juan Granados:

affect our,  

[00:08:54] Kyrin Down:

I suppose, more   more   our decision making.   And the books arguing that, you know, things like   an orgy on the beach of   a group of hippies   that leads to a pregnancy,   you can   go down the steps and find like, oh, okay, those decisions were actually all kind   of driven by mating choices and in particular, like the different types of sperms. So let's talk about blocker sperms, which I always imagine one   fucking kamikaze sperms,   all these different types of ones.   When I read that book, this was in a phase of,   I don't know, I was probably I was reading stuff like,   The Red Queen by Matt Ridley, which is all about evolution. I was learning about mimetics.  

I actually have read the book where meme was invented as a word. Richard Dawkins, I think it was The Selfish Gene,   where he came up with that.   And so I was going through this whole phase and I'm gobbling all this stuff in. I'm like, okay, wow, that's really interesting.   And then find out just years later, like, oh, that there's   that book was one of those ones, which it comes up cross as facts, but it was actually dude just coming up with a lot of a lot of fun analogies. And there wasn't the science behind these actual sperm.   Different types of sperm stuff is it's not   not correct or not the truest,  

[00:10:19] Juan Granados:

I guess. And I guess in that example,   They would have brought this book together.   That doesn't sound like a book that was brought about by opinion, though. Correct. So I would have I imagined that this dude's like,  

[00:10:35] Kyrin Down:

this is the most up to date science, we've got some scientific studies to back this up. I'm pretty   sure he would have had, you know, links to those in the in the index at the end or whatever he had there,   or recommended further reading.   But and this is also   a critique of I guess, like the of science, which is   science is really good. It's an amazing method for figuring out what's reality.   Probably up until like   20 years, with a 20 year lag or something.   Because, you know, the latest breakthroughs in science, a lot of that is just   unrepeatable   stuff that were just one off flukes, or people   doing fraud and manipulating the data manipulating the studies.  

They got lucky, they got unlucky, whatever you want to call it, they had an agenda, so they were driving it selective.   You know, another good book on this was the   one related to what's it called? Bad Science. I can't remember.   And it was related to   how the scientific   studies were manipulated   to show different things. And so in particular, you know, smoking is good for you or it's like, well, at least it's not bad for you. And then you go, okay, now that that's that's not so good. I'm pretty sure there's some ones out now about how you know, carbs,   fat got a really bad,   bad rap in the what would you call it maybe the late late   20 20th   century   eggs in particular, so much cholesterol and things like that. Now the trend is shifting towards like fat good, carbohydrates bad.  

Is that is that the the truth as well?  

[00:12:18] Juan Granados:

Yeah. What's the final say? And and just an information in general, and again part of   the reasoning why I wanted to   bring this up as a podcast as opposed to just a little throw off comment that we had last week was,   for me in practice, like actually in reality, what does that mean in the in the stuff that I like to consume? Because going back to the,   if you have a book out there or just information again that it's just pure opinions   and you can, yeah, I guess I haven't personally   sought out those type of books, I'm sure they would be and there's other information sources like that that are really opinion based.   I'm going to stay away from them   generally as much as possible unless I have   validated or verified the individual that it's coming from to a point where I go,   yeah, you know what,   I know where this person's values and info and ideas coming from, okay, I'm willing to   understand their opinion of where they're coming from,   separated to the   facts that might be in play. What does that look like?  

So, my example   someone like Tim Ferriss, either through some of the books that he has created in the past or   in hearing a podcast or maybe even in person or in conversations,   if he was to display an opinion,   I feel like I have enough   validation points around the place where I go, okay, I will listen to that opinion,   I'll hold it loosely, but I'll take that in as much as I may be taking some facts. Seems good, I validated that. Where might I not   do that to an individual?   Either people who I don't know, like just random people that I don't know, or   there's particular influences beyond what you're seeing that can can create something.  

This happens all the time in meme coins, right? So, a haptua coin, you know, if there was an opinion of someone who's saying or that they themselves like you should buy this because I'm going to look at doing all of these great things. You From a mile away, I could have told you that particular opinion is fraught with danger even if had had succeeded.   Statistically from what I've seen, you know, this is going to get crazy, like I'm just, I don't want to like deal with any or nor do I want to listen to opinions about the topic of that, Leave it well alone, but there are some circumstances where I will   absorb an opinion   through very very select few individuals   or you know entities I've like kind of gone okay, they pass the test.  

But in general   I will lean towards more facts based books   and that just present present the information as is generally with if there's any opinion or   synthesizing of information or anything, it's very   directly   to what the point of the fact of the story that's being told. I find like a lot of the books that I've read over the last couple of years, the ones that I really, really enjoy,   generally they're like what you'd call under the self help book slash science and the ones that I rate the highest are the ones where there's a lot of facts or signs present. There's not a lot of opinion, but there's a lot of story usage from the past to bring relevancy to that particular point. And so, in that, kind of similar to maybe some of the books that you read,   best case for this is Ryan Holiday's books, there's a hell of a lot of stoicism   and plenty of stories from   a 100 to a 1000 years in the past where you'll go, you know, topic, attribute, skill, this is the comparison, this is the idea, I've presented it here in front of you, here's my opinion on it.  

But it's all kind of capsulated nicely and like okay cool it's it's kind of cemented against a story or an idea   he's not putting some hardcore opinion that there's some backing behind it the ones where I've seen myself   not disgusted   but disliking that although I have been disgusted by one book which is the book of Versace   I couldn't even say that that was just like opinion of the shit, but the some of the other books that I have disliked   have gone. No, I can see the opinion coming through. I can see that you're stating something and   there is   this one in particular. I'm thinking about,   Dave Asprey's one. There is science out there like there was science or you could point to articles kind of similar to sperm or some where they might go. Yeah. Look this,   thing here that we've gone done   shows this but there's a difference between I guess something saying like, oh, this is what it shows is what I could do whereas he was very militant on this proves you cannot have beans, they're killing you. Yeah, I go,   that sits real badly on me where,   maybe here's my other tip as well, often opinions   sit as more extremes,   you know, and you'll hear from us when we talk about in the podcast. Sometimes we'll sit on some extreme of whatever idea you think. That's very much an opinion and   it would do as well to like be very clear if it's a, you know, very strong held opinion. We have a backing behind like what's our reasoning behind it because if   I I would be just as annoyed if I was listening to someone else and they gave an opinion and maybe I didn't know them that well and they didn't prove where like the backing of that came from. I'd go, nah, I don't trust this guy like where is this information coming from? But also made me reflect and go where am I also placing opinions just in the same way that I absorb where am I also placing opinions and thoughts I'd go unless you know me I'm probably not giving you enough  

[00:17:42] Kyrin Down:

you know security and backing as to where that idea has germinated from. Yeah, Brian Holliday is a good example. Because he's he's touching on stuff. It's more the   his more artistic choices in terms of,   I'll put this story in this way. This is what is generally known about, you know, X stoic.   Here's some of the things he did in his life, and you can present it or contrast it with other ones.   And then,   you know, he's literally just writing some facts about this dude's life.   Probably providing some quotes, and then   translating,   translating that into a more modern context, something like that.  

Another book that I'm reading at the moment, and one that I'm finding fantastic is Devil Take the Hindmost, which is about financial speculation and doing a very similar thing. It's looking at periods of the past tulip mania saucy bubble   1920s, roaring 20s stock market in the US   about midway through so there's going to be more.   And he'll provide snippets of like, this thing happened.   No,   stock market   facts, stock market rose or   declined by X amount between these dates.   Here's some   newspaper article quotes, things that came out like this. And then   it's more the narrative that he constructs around it and of   what I would call facts.  

And then in particular, impartial facts, you could take each sentence out of that book. And   I I think it'd be very hard to argue that unless you're just in a nitpicking,   arguing mood.   And but then he's able to create a really compelling story around it.   I'd say it's mostly   although it's although there can be some humor and crack a joke or 2 in the, you know,   saying this person did this and then look what happened 5 years later. Isn't that kind of funny? Or it's got this kind of some mirth in it? He's not I   don't get the feeling is   he already had a point and then was just trying to drive it home. He was more like, okay, there's   this thing called speculation. It's happened in past.  

I'll go dive deeper into the researches do all the stuff that I personally don't want to do. I don't want to read newspaper articles from the 1920s.   I don't want   to try and go to the Dutch archives and find out like, what the fucking price of tulips were and   1600,   1700s, whenever that was.   So it's one of those ones where it's like,   you can also see this with people.   2 people I really like Andres Antonopoulos   and Eric Voorhees who talk about that. That's kind of how I learned about cryptocurrencies and blockchain from   Eric Voorhees is very mild mannered. I don't think I've ever seen him speak with compassion   or   anger or empathy.  

You know, these real high and low emotions   is very monotone.   But he presents things in a real strict kind of factual way,   which I find really compelling. Andres Antonopoulos, on the other hand is very emotional. And   it's,   it's funny because I,   I want I like agree with him about the things that he's saying. But I'm also kind of wary of him because I'm like, he's a good communicator. And because he is using a lot of emotions here.   The facts   might not be as rock steady.   Or if he   if he distorts them at all, it's   it's more likely to   go under the radar because I'll be more entranced with his   why why is railing against governments and the   regulations and things like that, which is generally something I tend to agree with. So yeah, it's, you can see that in book form a lot of times as well. Like you're mentioning with Dave Asprey, there was another one I read. It was in my my shit book list of books I never got through   where it was a dude who was just   he'd throw something out and be like, here's this statement.  

And then he's like, additional and it was statement wasn't it wasn't a fact because it was based on,   so for example, he   I think he had a   commission report from this from the United States about like media consumption or something like that.   So it was a government report,   which is probably the   least scientific thing you're going to find out there. And then it's like, this was the findings.   Therefore, you like there can be no argument   against this. And you're just like, there's there's there's there's  

[00:22:27] Juan Granados:

a lot of written in law with law.   Yeah, yeah, it's it's hot. Well,   this is where it leads me to and I guess the first part of this onward today.   My little my little conclusion when it comes to something on books, which is a bit weird. I don't know how I feel about it. I'm starting to approach a point   currently, so we're in 2024.   And honestly, the way that I would say I would consume   information, I think you mentioned this at the beginning,   I would say my book information   and by   how do   I break it down, I guess by the amount of knowledge that I'm absorbing through book form, let's just say on a weekly basis,   it's probably 2%,   5%. It's very very low. Why?  

We've talked about this before in terms of bit of information,   videos,   podcasts, all that sort of stuff. That for me has just become like a gigantic amount of the way that I absorb things. Books is very, very minor to that.   And part of it really started thinking,   okay,   and by the way, I probably didn't lay this out as well. I'm not much of a fiction reader, very much not much of a fiction reader. Have I written, have I read fiction books before? Yeah. And for sure, I did enjoy, But there wasn't, there hasn't been any   call for me   to go and read some fiction books. In general, if I guess my mind trends towards them if I'm booking time into some books, it's   generally high investment and time. I want it to be   maximizing my knowledge that I can take.  

Granted, you can get a lot of that from fiction books as well. There's a lot of interesting things that can come up a bit and ideas.   Maybe this will change in a couple of years, but right now, I'm not reading any fiction books at all. And so, minor nonfiction,   generally in the health space, scientific space, or in like a self help mind perspective, all of those sort of regions.   And then   part of me really goes,   I think the books that I have currently or that I have read,   I think I'm going to get better   investment of time in just re reading some of them   as opposed to going and reading   any new book that is out there.  

Because and I say this just in the context of self help and sometimes the health aspects   is,   so,   you'll largely go and find other books that are   same same but different,   but the books that I have right now for whatever reason I've really enjoyed have taken out a lot of learnings from it.   Rereading is probably going to give me more benefit in what I'm attempting to do than going and buying a brand new book,   you know,   21 ways to become a self made trillionaire with Husky. I don't know, something to that effect, right? Like I go rereading obstacles away. I run holiday   is giving me more bang for my buck than going and reading a brand new book on the same concept, given that I've already validated how good this particular book is. And there is, as always with all books, you will absorb a lot of ideas and thoughts, but every time you reread it, I can personally grasp for this stuff where I've read, I mean, search for meaning multiple times,   you will   not   get this vast amount of knowledge, but you will get the repeated reminder of what made it so special in the first place. Sure. Sure. I've got a couple more things, but let's do boostgram launch and then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was just my first little summary of of that section. So I want to talk about a couple other things as well.  

Boostscram Lounge. So that is just a chance for us to thank. I think the folks out there, the Myanmar Lights out there who  

[00:25:53] Kyrin Down:

contribute and sent through some boosts to satoshis through us. Yep. Yep. Or even, monetary support because there's someone else I wanna to shout out actually from the book review channel. So Okay. Okay. Do you want me to call out the book review channel?  

[00:26:06] Juan Granados:

No. No. No. No.  

[00:26:07] Kyrin Down:

Do do the   do our ones first. So mere mortalspodcast.com/support   if you want to   support the show, we very much appreciate it.   And it's your continued support that keeps us   this and the lights on and the audio on if one remembers to do it, we'll actually, I'm gonna   I'm gonna get you to redo   a thing right at the end so that I can insert it into the front so it's not just a fucking weird, shitty intro. Unbelievable.  

[00:26:36] Juan Granados:

Yep. They don't know boot scramps this week for us. Okay. So   that's all I was thinking if you want to call out the book. But yep. So  

[00:26:43] Kyrin Down:

so yeah, we did get support from let me bring it up here. Ratis love.   How would you pronounce?   No, no, I'm going to talk about that one later. Okay.   How would you pronounce that name there? Ratislav.   How would you say the last name might be better with the Eastern European?   Who? Karpisik?   I don't know. Yeah. That's that's how I said it. Anyway, he's a dude who's reached out to me before   And just just giving encouragement.   Some really long nice messages.   It was actually at the start of this year, 16th   February.   We chatted for the first time. And yeah, he sent in a very nice PayPal amount of   $31.15   just to the to the book reviews channel, which, you know, that's like 2 months of the audio hosting. So very much thank you for that.  

But he actually also had a question   related to was kind of on this topic. Okay.   And so he's going to compile me a little list of favorites, but he was also,   could you share your ideas on teaching literature and the role of literature in schooling generally? I've heard you talking about in one of the recent episodes, it could be an interesting perspective, which I largely share about the way I was taught about books in school made me drop reading for a few years. So yeah, that was something that was something to   you. Something inherently wrong about being forced to read books you don't want to read. But on the other hand, how are you supposed to learn about what constitutes the literary canon and classics if you never attempt to read any?  

What usually killed my interest were not the books, but the endless list of facts about the authors providing no value whatsoever. So this is maybe   an argument on the other   case, which is like, just facts boring,  

[00:28:25] Juan Granados:

fucking boring. I don't want to be I think he's saying of the author. Is he saying of the author in particular, I guess? Because you know how sometimes it's the I don't know if he's meaning the context of literally learning and schooling and then you having to learn about the author themselves?  

[00:28:39] Kyrin Down:

No, so it wasn't   an endless list of facts about the authors. I guess that is   a portion to it. Although I gotta say, when we were doing Shakespeare, I don't ever remember learning much about Shakespeare himself. So  

[00:28:56] Juan Granados:

I thought   I probably would have found that more interesting to me actually, frankly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I learned some history actually.  

[00:29:03] Kyrin Down:

But this is one thing where it is like, okay, I was going to talk about, you know, fiction versus   nonfiction books.   The reason I probably read more fiction nowadays is   I probably get more truth from it. Maybe some   it's not a fact about life. There's a fact is usually   related to it an event like this thing happened. It's a   you know, is it a fact that   I'm trying to think that that   green is the best color?   No, that that's, that's an opinion. But you could do a   study or survey   of the world and find out oh, okay, green is   the the most popular color. Most more people say green is the best color   than other people do.  

But that's, that's one of those ones where it's like, yeah, but even if that is   a fact, in the sense of that statistic,   you still, I still don't think it would be right to say green is the best color, because that's,   that's green is the best color to the majority of people is perhaps the way you would want to say that.   Whereas   a lot of a lot of these fiction books, you'll I think you'll find really interesting things about humanity, psychology,   which   aren't facts. They're definitely not facts, but they're they're perhaps truths and learnings.   Yeah. And  

[00:30:34] Juan Granados:

but but you got to you got to be searching for them yourself can't be force fed them. Well, and see, this is and we'll get back to it. So we're gonna I think I'm gonna answer that particular question. Yeah. But the   so,   the what's a gigantic story   that you could go and read and take a lot of learning Odysseus?  

[00:30:54] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yep. Some people. Yeah. Get me personally, I didn't get that much from  

[00:30:59] Juan Granados:

you know, what I put in here some  

[00:31:01] Kyrin Down:

large tale with a lot of learning. War and peace if you want, you know, Tolstoy,  

[00:31:07] Juan Granados:

it's a large book. So so I guess Probably less news that I haven't read that. But And then, you know, you're more or less at home. You tell me which which is the better?   Is it   is it better, I guess, investment of time to go and read those books   or insert   form of information that you absorb, it might take 15 to 20 hours, and then you absorb it very much directly foundationally,   you get all the information, you take your own   notes. And there's benefit to that, like both of these have benefit, or you   offload perhaps that   insight seeking, learning, gathering from somebody else who's done it, aka,   someone does a book review on it, or someone does   a analysis of a conversation that happened at 7 hours and boils it down for you in 15 minutes.  

And then you absorb that instead,   And yes, you have to then take it with a little bit of their opinion and peppering in with their personality and how they bring it about.   But then you get all those insights and learnings.   There's,   there's goods and bats of both of those.   And honestly,   like, come to my head, I go, well, it is good to because I do this, AKA Ryan Holiday, he summarizes a lot of various stories and ideas and like, would you say like, autobiographies   of people into   very,   you know, acute things that,   map out to a particular skill or idea and I think that's good,   you're not going to get the full picture unless you go and see it yourself,  

[00:32:41] Kyrin Down:

but the investment of time in that is pretty significant.  

[00:32:43] Juan Granados:

He's got a book on parenting, doesn't he? He does. I wouldn't say a book on parenting per se. It's one of those where   a chapter per day for the whole year   and   you'll put a some sort of concept and then relate that back to parenthood in some way shape or form. Okay, have you read that?  

[00:33:02] Kyrin Down:

I've, let's just have read 3 quarters of all the pages. Okay, okay, so it's not a book? No, it's one of those who you just kind of like you'll  

[00:33:10] Juan Granados:

25th June, okay, open up the 25th June and you'll just read that particular one. Sure, you could read every single,   you know, page like a book I guess.   Just not incentivized to do it.  

[00:33:22] Kyrin Down:

I read 12 rules for life when that came out pretty shortly after it came out. And this was probably like peak Jordan C. Jordan Peterson mania, I guess. Yeah, that   that would have been 2017,   2018. That's the other thing. Probably 2018 was when I when I actually bought it just before I left to,   to travel. And I remember reading the book and being pretty disappointed, actually. And I think it's because   if there is someone who is expressing ideas   now   and I've already kind of heard of them, I'm more likely to enjoy their stuff,   If I've already heard of them, and it's probably because they're a really good communicator verbally,   or perhaps through interpretive dance. I don't fucking know, like maybe maybe that was what   captured Jordan Jordan Pearson, you know, all this subtle movements.  

When they try and put it in book form that those skills that make them a great verbal communicator aren't then then it's not the same as being a good   editor,   a blog writer, for example, or getting things in text. I think they're   pretty divorced.   Is there anyone I know of who I could say is really great communicator verbally and in the written form?  

[00:34:40] Juan Granados:

None come to mind. There's only 2 in my mind, like right off the bat that that I can think of. Yep. And and so,  

[00:34:48] Kyrin Down:

you know, Chris Williamson's   gonna gonna write a book from what I heard,   not a chance in fucking hell I'm ever gonna read that. Because it almost certainly it's not gonna, it's not gonna be good. It's not going to   hit the skills that made him good at what he does now.   Aren't going to transfer over.  

[00:35:06] Juan Granados:

So yeah, I would disagree there. I would disagree there. But I cannot I only disagree because   I get the weekly   newsletter that he sends out. I don't know if he himself writes them all, or if it's AI helped or whatever, but I've been seeing them for quite a few years   and the man writes really well. Okay. But, but   that's well for a newsletter.   I don't, that might not necessarily translate to a book, but there is some, some bits and bobs in there that I go, holy shit, that's that's really well written. That's differently written that what you'd expect it to be sure. Put it this way. I don't think any of Tim Ferriss  

[00:35:42] Kyrin Down:

is Chris Williamson, Sam Andrew Huberman's any any one of their books.   I doubt they're going to be very relevant in   50 years time.   The so I doubt they're going to be something that people would go back to and go, man, this was   ahead of its time. There's a lot of wisdom in here. There's you know, this is   it's a classic.   I've just very, very much doubt that   could be could be me just hating on him for being a you know, I was trying to think of hating mood perhaps. But in the early 2000s  

[00:36:14] Juan Granados:

or something like one of the like,   relatively recent  

[00:36:18] Kyrin Down:

book or in the years, you know, so that's gonna be   something like Tim Ferriss's   the 4 hour workweek   has a chance.   Just   because I think that that captured a kind of bit of a zeitgeist,   it could be like a cult classic,   in that   he was one of the first people to go,   the internet has changed a lot of things. And you can utilize software   to   escape the rat race,   and to make yourself productive.   I actually haven't read that book, funnily enough. I   probably should just to see   if that's actually what that is that that's kind of the impression I had of   it. So I could see that one as being capturing a moment of time, perhaps of   a of just a thought that people had had not entered into their heads yet of like, holy shit, I could   actually not need to work   50 hour workweek or 100 hour workweek if you whatever it is to   to   to achieve financial freedom.  

So perhaps one like that.   But is it going to have the same impact that you know, the top 100   books as viewed as as voted by   x   book publishing company or whatever.   Is it going to have the same impact of like a war and peace?  

[00:37:44] Juan Granados:

But or Well, we say this, we say this, and I guess this probably gets a little bit into this   opinion. Well, yeah, opinion right here. This this gets into   the context   like of that question   around   literacy   and schooling   what   might happen   from when we were young, and I guess in the past   under 200 years,   I guess books   or newspapers   or other forms of video, and we've talked about it in a couple of podcasts ago,   that, you know, that was the general way of to consume things. And so there is   reasonability   that   the things that we go like, oh, yeah, that was really great thing to read materialism meditation, anything anything from the stoics that are generally good.   Think of all the great   poems or writings of fiction and non fiction, not so much non fiction, but mostly like fiction that have come out last 100 years, 200 years or so. Wonderful.  

Yes, when you look up, these are the top 100 books.   You'll get a lot of those ones where it's like, oh, yeah, those are great reads from long time ago, but holds relevant.   Might that change and I guess the question of literacy for schooling, you know, in   30 year time,   are we going to see a generation that's not really reading much of books anymore?  

[00:39:05] Kyrin Down:

Necessarily, I think people have claimed that for a while. And it's it hasn't come true materialized. Yeah. You know, I think with the advent of,   of TV, of radio,   books are going to go, you know, no one's going to consume books anymore because   this the kids are fascinated by radio and technology   and things like that.   As far as I'm aware, there's probably more reading going on now than than there has been in the past just because the access via Kindle and things like that.  

[00:39:34] Juan Granados:

What do you what do you reckon? What do you reckon to be? Do you reckon to be more or less?  

[00:39:38] Kyrin Down:

I think it would be more, I think it'd be more but you know that how you're going to   to decide that because they're just literacy rates   are certainly improved now compared to 50 years ago.   So I don't I'm not sure how   what the best metric of that is, but I don't I don't think the   book the book industry,   the reading industry perhaps I don't think is   has gone into  

[00:40:07] Juan Granados:

a decline in that sense. So here's the just some random global trends   to this proof. Current point. Sure. In 20 21 American adults, American   adults averaged 16.8 minutes of reading per day, a 26% decrease from 2005.   22.8 minutes. And again 22.8 to 16, like, startup.   Well, it's like, yes,  

[00:40:29] Kyrin Down:

I'll note it is decreased. I guess it's still happening. What were they? Yeah. It's like, I guess the argument would be   it. I'd like to know books rather than just reading. Yeah.   News. Right? They could have been reading news on the Internet and then   and now they're just getting it in  

[00:40:46] Juan Granados:

a podcast form, for example. Yeah. Another another one just from an Australian context from the ABS, Australian Bureau of Statistics for 2020, 2021   time use survey indicated there's a decline reading for pleasure across generations.   And then another one for youth was decline reading for pleasure,   etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So I think   that and   another one from Scotland, 4.4 percent decrease. Now, these are articles   and yes, some of these are from statistics.   How   like absolutely certain they are, I still think there's going to be a trend where there is more of a wanting to get into,   other forms of information but I don't think the reading will go away completely. That's I'm not definitely suggesting that at all   but it does differ or makes change of what will become the   literacy pieces of work that you know,   sent for school children to go read. Maybe it won't change. Maybe it won't change at all that it's like, oh, it's still, you know,   mockingbird   and Shakespeare  

[00:41:48] Kyrin Down:

and whatever else you want. The latest version of looking for alabrande, whatever the fuck that is. If,  

[00:41:54] Juan Granados:

if you had to go through that again, what would have to the question? What would you have changed to make it a little bit better at least for you? So my dad was an English teacher, high school English teacher. So this was his his forte, you know, forcing kids to read books.  

[00:42:09] Kyrin Down:

And I was   chatting with this in probably this last year.   Just   like, is this a good thing? What what's the point of doing this?   And his his argument was always   like, it's not it's not about the book itself.   And this is probably getting towards   what   Russia's love was was   complaining about or not didn't like was   the extra details related to the side. You got to learn about the author. What was the author feeling?   Why? Oh,   you know, whatever they're looking for Alibrandi's author was   her growing up in Afghanistan,   how did that regime   affect her writing? What was the internal thoughts going on when she put this character in this situation?  

And it's, you know, all this shit that it's actually not related to the book. Now you're talking about a person who wrote the book. What are we doing here? Like, what's what's the point of this? And dad was always saying   there's no objective measure in English. You're just just trying to determine   is this kid able to   kind of use abstract thinking, connect thoughts and then   put that in out in a coherent manner, which is persuasive.   He   he kind of viewed it as like this kid's trying to convince me of something   And I don't really care what they're trying to convince me of, can they just do it in a persuasive manner?  

Let's go and so   it,   it actually had nothing to do with the book itself or the subject. It wasn't about fact nor opinion. And this is,   you know, it's kind of well known English is not one of the hard sciences.   It's in the humanities. So it is open to interpretation. Everyone's opinion is valid. Yeah.   And this is probably a thing that I didn't like maybe Vraddaslav didn't, which is like, no, I like maths. I like that. There's one answer. And you either get it right, or you get it wrong. And   it's like a yes or no sort of thing.   People's brains are wired differently.  

That's fine.   So   I think the thing would   be if that if that's the if that was the kind of outcome, now, my dad's probably a little bit of an outlier in terms of   how he   approached   teaching learning.   And I certainly know that he like wasn't the   favorite among the teachers in the staff room. Let's put it that way. So   I'll   he had a dislike of bureaucracy like I do   more tolerance than it than I do because he continued to work there   for however long.   So   the   maybe maybe his his grading style was actually inappropriate. I'm not I'm not sure. But let's say you've got, you know, my dad as a teacher.   Therefore, the   if it's nothing to do with the book itself,   why can't the kid bring something they're actually interested in, and then write about that. So if they're really interested in,   you know, speed, speed running speed games,   and speed running games,   why can't they,   you know, do some research on   summoning salt YouTube channel,   who goes over the history of these sorts of things, and then write something about that.  

Or, you know, what, why does it need to be about a   textual base thing, perhaps?   Or if if it needs to be like, no, you have to have to do it about a book, why can't it be this? Well, then then you get into all these things where it's like, okay, but the teacher hasn't read the book. So   it you know, they can't read, can't expect a teacher to read 30 different books that kids are all bringing in.   And then   having   to decide   if, if the kids actually   making a convincing argument or if they're just literally just inventing shit out of nowhere and, and things like that. So   yeah, the whole the I mean, it's probably honestly, it's more   more to do with   the way of of teaching  

[00:46:13] Juan Granados:

the school structure rather than Yeah, I would say so. Part of me would actually say I would disagree with the bringing   of   because I was just, I was just playing it in my mind there. You know, if the, if the intent is okay, we're going to learn   about, say, whatever context of Egypt, Egyptians, whatever, sometime period.   And you go, oh, you could read this book   or naturally you can go and watch this video and just analyze what the video says and then take that in your nose. Then the outcome from that is learning about the particular   piece.  

So if that's the objective,   yeah, maybe there are other ways. And as we a,   you know, as the years goes on and things change in the way that we consume information, I'd say, go for it. Just do the best thing, the best way that you could obtain that information. Again, I think we're moving to a world that is not   nice to have, sorry, just in case information, but it's just in time information. AKA, you don't need to just be storing useless and not useless, loads of information in your brain   where you can   gather a lot of those statistics and details very quickly. AKA, all those statistics I just pulled up,   AI, right? AI helped me just bring all those articles in a very quick manner. I didn't have to go and do   half an hour of research prior to to get those details and again, put some of them like, you know, you could put some little caveats and boundaries around how confident you are in the things that you're finding,   but it's more just in time I suppose just in case.  

But there is an aspect to in this specifically to to literate,   I'd say   hard things,   hard concepts.   There is imbued within that   a level of   skill set, the,   aspects of discipline   and plenty of other things   where it is good   to have to kind of like grit or work your way through   stories items of work   because in in that you actually find a lot of learnings to do that.   But   I say that from an opinion   that I would find that interesting.   But it would probably turn off a lot of people if you actually made it even more challenging to read books.   Looking at it from like my past and thinking about now okay I've got   a whole set of books not like any of the diff no no ridiculously   difficult philosophical   slash   old classic book realistically on my bookshelf, but to a younger kid,   some of them are going to be more challenging than others for sure. And one of the things that have made me think is I just don't think that it's gamified enough. It's not playful enough for kids. It would be   I think that it would be fun. And so maybe this would be fun, like say for my daughter of other people in that   make almost like levels levels to books and you'd go   yeah these are your introductory  

[00:49:02] Kyrin Down:

style books and it could be   already your kids fictions and stuff like that they've already got ones like that the choose your own adventure and goosebumps for example those are those are no sorry sorry sorry yes  

[00:49:15] Juan Granados:

That that's gamified in that way. So what I mean is   whole   broad bands of   levels   to books. And so what I mean by that,   I'll just make it up in the spot. Like a book that  

[00:49:29] Kyrin Down:

so so, for example, I accidentally read   what was it Thomas Hardy's   Thomas Hardy book, and I read the kid version of it. And I did a review on it, not realizing it was the kid version. And I was like, this is a kind of random stupid book.   I expected more depth from this.  

[00:49:48] Juan Granados:

I get it. I, I gotcha. I get it. So so it's like the same book. Something like that. Some of some of that version. Correct. So you like, you know, and you and the crazy thing is the reason I'm doing this because you can do this with AI in a lot of ways now. In fact,   oh, where was it? Oh, yeah, it is I'm pretty sure it's OpenAI's   new iteration of their dual platform utilization is   with a lot of topics that you create especially   below content related,   they now have even though I was doing this a lot in the prompts that I was using, but they have a slider bar now. We can quickly change whether you want it from   kindergarten to PhD to master's level to high school level in all of the information that's created. So, like just easy I guess to do that but, I would usually do it in a PROM format.  

But, pulling it that way into just books in general,   it would be nice if   if you want to know about a particular topic to school kids and let's say the topic that they want to learn about is,   let's just go the difficulties that Aboriginals had or   challenges in the, you know, mid-1800s   something to that effect. Now,   Step away, why the hell you know that particular topic is something super important to be learned over something else   don't debate whatever.   That's opinions based, however, I'd go you know it would be fun if you put them in rankings like you know introductory level are these sort of books.   Interimmediate   levels are you know these ones, but again, I'd recommend starting at the beginning levels   something to that effect that just gamifies it a little bit more. So that maybe   some of Shakespeare's   plays and books, maybe some of them and the really introductory level and maybe you can include   videos, movies, you know, like Romeo and Juliet's   movie version of whatever that is that we used to watch in school that it was  

[00:51:36] Kyrin Down:

With the with the,   where they had guns? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I can't remember specifically what I think it was just called Romeo and Juliet. Yeah.  

[00:51:43] Juan Granados:

Those might be like, hey, intro level just to get your feet wet. But you know, if you're game, if you want to get to intermediary and master level, these are the things you know we wouldn't recommend you do this.   Maybe that would help out some it would still turn away some people in any case I just go there's more contextual ways I think you could probably bring literacy to kids as opposed to just going blanket   book,   analyze, bring it back to me. Yeah, it can be more interactive than that. It's  

[00:52:12] Kyrin Down:

a slightly tangential,   but   have you   got any opinions on   what's cool when you take a kid out of school and homeschooling   homeschooling?   You know, beside any effect, any debates about the   socialization and things like that?   Is there any,   so let's just say,   wipe that to the side.   Would you think they would learn better at here versus at school? And I suppose the question is also   say that they didn't have to you get to choose   what what kind of book they can read or they get to choose, you allow them to choose what kind of book they have to read and they have to do an assignment on or some sort of text to prove that they can be persuasive.   Is there any value in them reading the same book that other   kids have had to read?  

You know, the shared experience, we've all got the shared experience of Shakespeare.   The only thing I can really take from that is   I now have a connection with basically anyone because we can all bitch about how stupid it was to read Shakespeare in high school.   That   is that a good shared experience to have with someone? I think you know what I think I think the challenge I think the challenge with  

[00:53:28] Juan Granados:

just because it was like to the original question,   I think that   should   home yeah, should it be homeschool versus in school? I don't think that the shared experience brings that much extra. I think you would not read Shakespeare in a home school context, you'd read probably other things that they would bring or have more joy. One of the challenges that I would say is that   as you age, so if anyone's listening and you're like quite young, like you're really really young,   I can only put myself into that position, but it's also, I guess, partly an opinion because I'm older.   You just will not absorb   some of the really hardcore   quotes or ideas   or ideas of suffering   unless you are 1, a really unfortunate,   you know, individual who had a terrible childhood. 2, you're just not old enough. You're just not old enough at that point to, I think, really absorb some of those items as much as,   and the reason I say that is that I've read books   lately or in the last couple of years where they will reference or have a quote from Shakespeare and then it's like that's a deep quote, that's a deep understanding.  

There is no way in hell that when I was 16 years old reading Shakespeare, I would have picked up that quote and been like man that's that's deep. I get it. I wouldn't have gotten it. I just like we all saw it. We just saw it as like what the hell is this story? This is boring.   What's going on? There's you know and even in school you're like, oh yeah, you can pick up these contexts and ideas,   but that's kind of the equivalent of me reading at 15 years old a book about parenthood,   right? Like you can get the idea,   but I'm telling you this right now until you become a dad or a mum, you don't have any idea. You do not have any idea. In fact, I've had this prior to being a dad, I've looked after some kids and I know friends who've looked after kids who I now speak to. I go you know they kind of compare like oh yeah I know what it means no you don't no you fucking don't you have no idea the difference that it is this is it is people hate parents because they keep it's so it's very different but again this go this goes with dogs right you know someone told you before you have a dog all this is you got to do and you got to do it now it's a smaller scale but no you don't get it until you kind of go through something that's equivalent   I think there's a challenge in just full stop trying to   get kids or get teenagers to absorb some context, which is just not at the ready for that context. I don't need to as well. I don't think anyone needs to  

[00:55:51] Kyrin Down:

I mean, I don't think anyone needs to learn about the  

[00:55:54] Juan Granados:

awareness of life. We talked about suffering. We talked about with dogs last time. You know, this is sounds   coward to say, but if you had a dog when you were young and die when you were a teenager,   you're going to learn a lot of stuff, I think, from mortality in that space, right? You're going to learn a lot about mortality and the finiteness of life,   etc.   If you didn't have that and if you're young and if you're fortunate, no one around you has died and everything's okay, maybe your great grandparents have died, fine, and you read a book like Man's Search For Meaning,   I just, I don't think it's going to resonate as strongly as   you age and part of that, I can tell you, I've read Man's Search For Meaning on and off now for 6 years, something to that effect.  

The first time I read it wasn't like the 2nd time I read it wasn't like the 3rd time I read it wasn't like the 4th time I read it   and   I wouldn't say that I'm again   learning a gigantic   big different thing every time but it's oh it makes more sense   oh I get this oh okay I can see this level of suffering of this comparison   again I'm not even close to that level that it's expressed in the book or in a lot of other books   but it makes sense as you explore more and experience more in life.   So to that point on literacy or at least any content in general,  

[00:57:09] Kyrin Down:

you'd have to be, yeah, you have to be careful on what you try to get them to absorb. All I'm getting from this is that Juan wants everyone to read that book and let them You gotta read. You gotta read. Yeah.  

[00:57:18] Juan Granados:

But, yeah. And this is why I mean the levels of it because I would love to for my daughter, I would want to say to her,   my favorite book is The Man's Search for Meaning. But I go   that book   in whatever order ranking gamification be like that's one of the hardest books to read   and it would be like, oh, I wouldn't shouldn't have gotten hard, it's like the most complex to take the absorb the knowledge from. Now, one part of it is for a kid, I think that goes like, oh, it's a challenge.   I want to go and read it. What the hell? Why can't I read it?   But it's kind of like classifying in the there are   classics, there are items of work that you just, you need pre   loaded up information. Otherwise, you are going to think what the hell is going on here?  



[00:58:01] Kyrin Down:

Sure, sure.   This reality.   I'm gonna end with this little quote that I grabbed from   the book, Devil take the Hindmost. And so   it's funny, like even history is not free to be explored at leisure.   There's still not facts, even about things that were   far in the past.   And so there was this quote from here, the relationship between the crash and the Great Depression. So this is talking about the Roaring Twenties and then the Great Depression that followed from that   is one of the most keenly debated issues in economic history because the debate is politically charged concerning whether markets should ultimately be controlled by governments or left to their own devices. It will never be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. As Roosevelt showed, political capital could be earned by   insinuating   insinuating   a   causal link between the crash and the economic crisis.  

And it's got talking about like Friedman's assertion, the stock market collapse did not lead to this did not cause this.   And it's one of those ones where it's like, okay, you'd think by now that you'd have a would   be set in stone the stock market crashing   are leading   did does this have any connection with the Great Depression that followed?   And it's still not it's still still widely up for debate even to today.   So   there's certain   certain facts and opinions which   are very much   submerged entwined in each other and I don't think can be extricated,   which was also why I really like the book,   The Tyranny of Words by Stuart Chase. So I think he just he just nailed it. The certain topics which are just so screwed, inherently screwed, that you're not going to be able to   get a good idea of what the hell is going on and what people mean.  

Politics is 1 religion is 1 sex is 1, You know, the things you avoid on the first date, that's the the big three is the is the general rule. And there's a reason for that because it's just people have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. They talk past each other. Communications almost impossible.   Words lose their meaning or they have different meaning to other people. They've got   17 different meetings,   each unique to the person who's hearing it.   It's hard. Yeah.  

[01:00:24] Juan Granados:

Honestly, I don't even know how to summarize that, or what we've said around the opinions and facts aspect of it. But   I'm gonna give you my opinion, or I guess my viewpoint on some of these things is that, honestly, stay away from anything that's opinion based unless you just really enjoy it, or you have a way to verify improve.  

[01:00:42] Kyrin Down:

How much of an opinion you could have? Yeah, this is probably more around the idea of what's true and real. If it's fun.  

[01:00:48] Juan Granados:

Just read it. You know, it's exactly because then fiction. A lot of fiction that can be, you know, it's not real, but it can be a lot of there's nonfiction like that as well. You know, the  

[01:00:58] Kyrin Down:

I don't know how   how nonfiction this is, but the   don't tell my mom I work on the rigs.   She thinks I'm a piano player in a whorehouse or something like that.   That book is   nonfiction,   but   I don't know about that, you know, but it was it was kind of a fun read, very click baity title. Yeah, I wouldn't actually recommend reading that.   But, you know, that's one of those ones where even nonfiction can be fun. Certainly.   And if you if you if you get juiced up and jacked up by reading,   what's what's some of the like the politically charged ones that came out recently?   I know there were some in the states where it was like it's about like white people and   how racist white people are and I  

[01:01:46] Juan Granados:

can't remember that it was one of those books. I'm so away from that lens obviously that I just have no clue of, you know, I'm glad. If you enjoy that, if you enjoy  

[01:01:56] Kyrin Down:

your favorite   YouTuber and they come out with a book and you just want to read it for fun, like fucking true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it depends on what you're  

[01:02:05] Juan Granados:

optimizing for, what you're willing to spend your time on as well.   Don't waste your time, folks. There's not so much of it.   While you're there, need more lights. Again, from Boostragram perspective, if you do want to support   the show. Very sad puppy. We do need some support coming in. You can do it obviously through the PayPal. We've already mentioned it as well. There's some links that's gonna be all available all around the place. Boot Scripts though. In the show notes. Great.   Boot Scripts though, you're able to send through some sort of satoshis with a message attached as well. You can do that on all the good platforms out there fountain.  

[01:02:36] Kyrin Down:

Fountain's a good one.  

[01:02:38] Juan Granados:

We'll say our customatic. You can go to our, mearmortals.com/support.   Go and see all the various ways, all the videos. That video is still hold valid of how to actually go about and do that in terms of supporting. Yeah. Probably for the moment. Yeah. Yeah. But again I might have to take that down. Stuff goes stuff goes quickly.   In any case, feel free to go there. Any questions on the line? I didn't check. I do have,  

[01:02:59] Kyrin Down:

I actually took alt notes for next week's topic, which I've already decided. Oh, you've already noted. Okay. Yeah. Bam. Because I,   I've had a really interesting YouTube binge recently. It was just a bunch of stuff coming up. Okay.   Which which   I found really interesting. So   next week's topic is going to be about game economies.   Game economies. In particular, I probably should label that. Right. Okay. Video game economy. So you're talking about like,  

[01:03:27] Juan Granados:

Minecraft.   Minecraft. Minecraft.   Escape. Escape.  

[01:03:30] Kyrin Down:

This BlueHat.   The fact that you could buy $30 shoes now in Crypto, crypto games,   things like that. Yeah. There's, I went down a bit of a world.   1 just mentioned the blue party hat because we have a shared   YouTube account. So I assume that's why you set that up. No. No. I didn't see that, but that's the only thing I know of ring scape of the hats. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So so Well, there we go. It'll be a good topic. So that that'll be Game and game economics. Video game video game in particular. Economies.  

[01:04:00] Juan Granados:

And Why some some of them don't work and some of them do seem to work. Yep. And no, I think I think that's it, for for today. Awesome. Okay. Immortlights, thank you very much. Take care wherever you are in the world. Thank you for being here for the live. And if you're not, feel free to join in on the 9 AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on Sundays for now. Correct. Immortlights, 1 out. Kired out. Good.   Good.