Mere Mortals

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Time to travel again but with a new perspective.

In Episode #449 of 'Meanderings' Juan & I discuss: doing a handstand retreat with Lucas Branco & Miguel Sant'ana, why Juan and I are struggling to stick to our yearly goals, playing with dogs and babies, crazy people who run super long distances, the nitty gritty of trying out Venice.ai, why I think AI will have an impact and be useful, the importance of fundamental human values but also being pragmatic in how technology is implemented.

Huge thanks to Petar & Cole McCormick for supporting the show. We really appreciate your contribution!

Chat with Miguel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJLfH5t58v8

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:00:43) I'm doing a technology cleanse
(00:05:17) NOT Planning 3-4 months out
(00:12:16) No goals but living in the moment
(00:17:30) Eminent human beings don't need goals
(00:21:34) DownUnder135 Ultramarathon
(00:29:33) Boostagram Lounge
(00:35:31) Creating images with AI
(00:40:32) Leveraging AI to improve itself
(00:48:30) I'm glad it is stealing our unproductive jobs
(00:57:06) Degenerate AI & human fundamentals
(01:06:01) This could get me censored
(01:10:34) The value 4 value frosty plateau
(01:18:08) Miles Morales pain
(01:19:43) A condensed spiel
(01:25:48) V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure

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[00:00:06] Kyrin Down:

Welcome, everyone, to a mere    mortals meanderings episode. You have to go back to favorite mere mortals here. Welcome back. Welcome back. Juan over here. And, yeah, I'm I'm here, Kyrin, on this side for now. For now. Correct. As, I've labeled this something about Bon Voyage. Bon Voyage. 2.0, the real time. The the   well, not. For real? But it is for real. So I very similar to last time except we just don't have the 3 other people in the room with us. But I will be heading back off to Brazil as of tomorrow   morning. So lucky guys. I'm heading off and   I'm actually going to take time. I'm going to be doing a cleanse.  

I'm cleansing the spirit. Oh, I'm   cleansing. What does that actually mean? So,   just timing wise, a lot of things have worked out so that if you went back into   conversation like 30 or something with Miguel Santana,   who is a hand balancer who is Brazilian,   And he's basically invited me slash I have to also pay to go   to a handstand retreat that he's got going on. He had some spaces there. So me and my friend Lucas would be gone. And   it's going to be for a full week starting Sunday   will arrive, but I think it starts on Monday.   And   so I'm just going to be like handstanding, saying at his family's place in Minas Gerais, which is   it's kind of   I believe it's north   northwest of, of,   Rio.  

Rio de Janeiro. Okay. So think   Bella Horizonte if you know your Brazilian geography well,   it's kind of just up and in. And so   I'll be doing a road trip to get there. And I was just thinking like, you know, I'm going to be there for a full week. I'm not going to bother doing a podcast. So no podcast next week, people, unfortunately.   Okay.  

[00:01:55] Juan Granados:

I will Okay. I'll make a concerted effort. There was   something that I wanted to release. I'll do it for next Wednesday. Okay. Yep. So we'll release that for next Wednesday. Should be low touch in the mere models feed. Correct. Yeah. Cool. Excellent.  

[00:02:08] Kyrin Down:

So   I was just thinking   I might just do a technology cleanse. I've been I've been dabbling with this in my head of going   I, I downloaded on my phone   Instagram,   Twitter.   So I put on there a couple a couple other like messaging and social things. So I was going,   oh, okay, when I go traveling, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to be posting, you know, videos of me, I'm going to do these things.   And I might have done that once. But I just, you know,   I should have known it's not gonna stick. I don't enjoy doing that. So   instead, they've just been on my phone. I've been spending way too much time using them to just   passively scroll. Right. Go to the. So I'm thinking cleanse, get rid of all of them, but also just not touch my computer for a week, not touch my phone for a week, just turn my phone off for a week and see how that goes. So   I'll be semi   uncontactable. If you have Lucas's number, I suppose you'd you'd be able to reach out to me. Probably give that to you. Or his socials.  

All his socials. Yeah.   And yeah, I just just want to take I think it like all timing timing wise   lines up nicely   of just   having a having a break, having a full proper break just from everything. Now you're not you're not unfamiliar with tech breaks. Remember I used to do that quite a bit. I used to do one day a week. I would not touch my phone or or computer. And you enjoyed that? That was like, you enjoyed that? Yeah. It wasn't hard. It was just just  

[00:03:35] Juan Granados:

just something. How long how long are you gonna do it? 5 days? Like a week? No. I think I think it goes for 7 days, this thing. So so no. So when are you when are you planning? When are you planning? What are you planning for man? When are you planning to begin the the no tech?   Probably on this   Monday. Probably on Monday. Okay. Cool. Alright. There you go. So if you want to contact Karen, get it all in. Get it all in as much as possible. Just get it out. This is Monday, Brazilian time. Remember? So Okay. So you'll you might you could probably squeeze it in. He can add a little bit more. Yeah. Time. You just just get that sneaky little bit in. But Okay. Okay. So yes. Karen's heading off. Bon voyage to Brazil once again. Now he won't be back in Australian lands for a little while. I reckon  

[00:04:14] Kyrin Down:

early October, late September is probably when I'll be back. When you'll be back there. Yeah. So it's gonna be a little while. So June, July, August,  

[00:04:22] Juan Granados:

September. So 3 to 4 months. Now you say, yeah, next week there'll be a little bit difference. And once again, we might change the actual timing of we continue to do the podcast that we do right now. I've scheduled the next one for the Saturday, 7 AM your time. Awesome. Not not this weekend, not the next weekend, but the weekend after. There you go. So there's a bit of an idea of what we're gonna be doing at least for the Australian time obviously different across the world but keep it tuned. Yeah. Well, that that was like coming up. But yeah, it's probably   a fine time at the moment both yourself. I think for me, there's been like, I was just talking about it off air. It's been a lot since I get back from Japan. It's a little bit of sickness,   a lot of work. This is what I thought was gonna be maybe my expectation of how much was gonna be here for me to do was even more   so. Also comes at an ideal time of, yeah, trying to I mean, it's not slowing down. It's   finding the energy to go and do these other things that are starting to pile up. So we get how would you make a decision  

[00:05:19] Kyrin Down:

3 to 4 months out of in terms of   okay, this is something that I'll be working on the next 3 to 4 months. So we've got our monthly goals is where we're generally heading the yearly goals. That's that's not necessarily like   you. For example, one at the moment has got to kind of make work choice decision things, contracts coming up, deadlines, timelines.   How would you go about making something which is   a non goal related   or it could be goal related, but it's the actual implementation of,   of a big a big ish could be a big change in your life. It's one of those ones that could snowball, right? So it's   I'm going to go into this new work. Everything will be fine.  

And then but it might be slightly less secure than your old work. And then   who knows, 3 months time you could go, oh, this isn't really working out. I've got to go find new work, but you can't go back to your old work. And so then, you know, next thing you know, once a hooker on the street. So who so how do you go about thinking about like these decisions which could impact something 4 months down the track?  

[00:06:24] Juan Granados:

Yeah, I mean, at the moment, I think there's the   what's the ideal   statement and sentence that I can think of and I could interact with people's like, what does Tim say?   It's the what's the lowest risk with the highest value return that you could choose here or like the action you could take that's of lowest risk with the highest return.   I could say that I could say that that could be the the path forward with it. And so in the options right now, I could make some rational decisions on, okay, sit down, have a think, you know, what should I do in this particular scenario and all of that.   The reality though is right now   I'm finding it super hard to plan 3 months, 4 months, 5 months out. Super, super difficult.  

It's still   ever since becoming a dad, maybe a couple of months afterwards, I'd say it's been very much a week to week type of planning event, not a 3 month, 4 month, 5 months, even to the point of   doing monthly goals at the moment.   It has been good, but I have noticed that maybe a couple of weeks into it, I'll just deviate or I'll forget some things. And once I'm really checking it in, I'm gonna be really interested in what's gonna happen at my next annual,   it's like, goal sort of check-in because I'm often now referring to some of the goals I said last August and I'm like, wow.   Yeah. That was It's been so long and   by really pursuing this and I'm not sure if I'm gonna have to   break it down even to a closer degree   per se. So when I'm making some of these decisions, it's okay. I'll make   this decision and assess it in a week or 2 weeks or, you know, whatever have you as opposed to 3 or 4 months.  

Because I well, yeah. Well, I can   theorize and talk about maybe rational ideas around how I would do that. It's difficult at the moment to actually apply it. Very difficult. So when I'm talking to people like I was talking to you today and I've talked about it with my partner   on hey, there's these 2 options. You know, what should I choose?   My default reality when I'm thinking it through, I go, okay, but what's gonna look like for next week   And the week after and then the week after?   And I definitely should be more in a long term view. But it's been a struggle lately to get to a long term view.  

[00:08:35] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's a tough year.   The   I guess for me it's sort of similar in a sense. People ask me, Karen, so what are you doing? How long are you going to be going for? And I go, Oh, you know,   relatively sure I'll be a month and a half from Brazil and then I'll fly to the US and then I'll kind of figure it out from there. This   then I'll, I might stay there a month, I might stay there a week, and then   I'll probably travel somewhere else. But   yeah, I could end up Europe for all I know. I literally have no idea where I'll where I'll end up. There's not not a whole lot of constraints on me   and   that   does not well like line up well with, oh, yeah, I've got some annual goals which I really want to   hit or do, at least in the sense of   doing them efficiently and product productively.  

They'll kind of get worked on, you know,   my Portuguese will certainly improve.   But   in terms of   really improving the podcast, well, that's, that's going to take a back seat for the next 3, 4 months.   The other stuff related to,   like getting one arm handstands,   you could say in a way that traveling is helping that because   I certainly was improving whilst in Brazil with with Lucas. And   I mean, I hope I improve after a week long retreat. I had nothing but handstands and, and advice from like one of the best. But you'd hope that. Who knows? I mean, I could devolve   The yeah, I just kind of for me, the the 3 or 4 months out is very murky and hazy. And   it's almost like people don't like that. I tell them, you know, I'll see what I'm at, see what see what I'm thinking and see what I'm thinking. Is that comfortable for them? Even even I noticed when I was saying I'm going on a year long   backpacking   in Latin America when I was saying that previously in 20, 18, 2019,   people seem much more comfortable with that. Whereas now I'm like, oh, you know, I'll probably go for a couple of months and then I'll just see Mhmm. I can I can see almost in their eyes? They're like, oh, okay. What do you mean? Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. What happens next? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think there's a battle of  

[00:10:42] Juan Granados:

being assured of something   that strikes at the, you know, at the fear of everyone for not knowing what's next. And so showing you're telling people that there's a similar sense of, oh, but what does that mean for that particular person? Maybe it goes to a default negative, like, oh, how can this person do that? Or,   you know some of my internalized and say well I can't just go up and go and not do anything for 4 months and I've got all these commitments and what have you but I think that   that's the   opposite in like another extreme that I'm I'm having right now where it's I have so many things going on and   you know could name   plenty of individual things which then that could split into like lots of subsections of things to do   that I'm finding myself in the well, no. I can't   I can't see myself focusing beyond 3 or 4 months. It's just really what's in front of me to almost survive through all these things.  

With the outside this way, almost the hope that in 3 and 4 months, 4 months time, yeah, I think that's slowing down so I can focus on something.   But I'm getting more and more to the reality of   oh, that's not going to happen. That's not like unless I'm changing something right now that's not ever going to happen. It's just going to be the same or worse so I'm also playing with the idea of   maybe as it comes to annual goals as well   make it like a whole year of reducing things like trying to reduce to simplify things. It could be something like that as well. So I haven't really started looking into the annual goals just yet, which also points to another thing. Coming out there in August right   now. In many years past,   I think it was probably even before June,   like May June period. I'm starting to eyeball them. I'm starting to go like, okay. I'm tidying up the the annual goals this year. Awesome.  

Cool. What what's next? What's the next year's plan?   This is the 1st year where it's like that might as well be so far away in the future that I haven't even started thinking about it.   And I don't know. A part of it goes, is that a bad thing? Perhaps I could look at it in some ways. In other ways, and I don't know if you can make a claim for this, but this is maybe me trying to rationalize it in a good way. I   haven't felt more.   I would say that way   it it feels like I'm more present because of the fact that it's so many things going on   but at the same time not so if I had to explain   today lots of things happen like there was lots and lots of things So many things going on that I couldn't really focus on what hat was happening in the podcast today. What might be happening in the week to come or 2 months, let alone 2 years from now?  

And a part of me goes,   that's a good thing. I'm   really focused in the present. Like I'm dealing with what's going on in front of me and that's translated both to work, which always was like that,   but definitely family time. So when I'm with my daughter,   it's kind of similar. I'm maybe so rushed or so busy on a lot of other things.   It's and I've said this before because I've got maybe half an hour in the morning or an hour to have a coffee or half an hour before we go for a bath it's like full use during that time I'm not thinking about something else I'm not thinking about the podcast I'm not thinking about 2 years from now It's oh, I'm right there because that's the time I have. So in some ways, some parts of it, I'm like, oh, yeah. This is is really good.   But to the original question, yeah, man, to make a decision about how it might look 3 to 4 months time. I'm not sure it's I don't know effectively how   right now that I can really have the time and know how to break it down to be, oh, yeah. That's the step that you have to take to get there and how to do it. So, oh, it's a bit murky. Too murky right now. But, you know, there's a joy in that as well. This morning, I had the morning off. I wasn't going to exercise today, so I had kind of  

[00:14:27] Kyrin Down:

6 ish hours of   from whenever I woke up to roughly 3 p. M.   I'll get I'll get a bit of work done. I'll finish off the packing. Well, 6 ish hours. Yeah. Okay. I thought you said 6 ish showers? No. I was like, man, it's clean.   It's too shacking shiny. Let's say you get this head to shine. Okay. So   I I went, okay, well, I'll definitely do the packing. I've got to figure out a whole   sending money internationally still is not easy.   So   don't accept Bitcoin.   Miguel does not accept Bitcoin as far as it will end. So   maybe he does, but he didn't tell me that he does. Okay. For next time, when you're over there, tell him. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Is that Bitcoin? Especially if it's rocketing. I won't even know though, because I won't have any technology. I could I could go there and come back, you know, 3 times as rich. If if if or Bitcoin goes 0 from what? Yeah. And you're like, oh, well, to be honest, at least I'm getting like an extra 6 days bliss, which is kind of related to this point, which is   when, okay, I'll do that and then I'll do kind of finances. I haven't looked at my budgeting this last month or put it all in the spreadsheet, you know, just tally up costs, things like this.  

And   I started doing that and I let Butters, my brother's golden retriever out and he was playing in the yard. And then I heard him soaking outside for a bit by the door. I went, Yeah, you know what? It's been he's been out there an hour or 2. I should go out and just give him some company for a little bit. And so I went outside and we're just playing around. Yeah, I was throwing the ball   and he's just crazy. It's kind of fun watching a dog just play fetch.   It's pretty basic   observation in life. And   I was really enjoying it. I was out in the sun. It was warmer outside. It was cold as hell inside.   And all I was doing in there was, you know, typing numbers into a spreadsheet. Not exactly   the most funnest thing.  

And that was when I went, Oh, you know what? I'm kind of living in the moment right now. This is living in the moment. I don't   have to be here nor do I not have to be here. I can choose.   And right at this moment, I'm going to choose to play with Butters for 20 minutes   or or until I get bored. Didn't really matter.   And in the grand scheme of life,   if I look back on this particular day, I go, was it worth spending,   you know, 20 minutes playing with Butters, which I didn't need to do, or 20 minutes putting the spreadsheets in, perhaps moving myself slightly   further towards my goals and financially speaking,   I was way better just spending it with Butters and just enjoying that moment. So   yeah, for me, it's almost when I hear you say that, it's kind of like, oh, well, yeah, you could be super stressed out and all those things. But if you're spending that time with your daughter just enjoying it, that's that's pretty good as well, man. I wouldn't I wouldn't   we can get stuck in the trap of living too much in the future   of these goals. I'm going to do these. Well, exactly.  



[00:17:25] Juan Granados:

And and you know, this is not to sound   overly pompous,   even though it might sound that way. Here it comes.   But when you and me first really started talking about setting goals and doing annual goals,   the eminence   human being scale that I put together, which was a 0 to 5 scale,   was something that I did for fun. It was my overarching   goal, very top level structure. There's   lots of different ways you can obviously do this sort of   aspirational view of of what a goal is.   And for me, 0 to 50   was where I was at the time when I first like had this inception of these particular metrics. And it's again, it was from   a eminent human well, eminent marine podcast I listened to from Jocko Willink, which gave me the idea of imminent me immortal, and that's where it created it all.  

And   when I look at it, I think I might be on level   1 of mind,   level 2 of of body and level 2 of soul.   And then it's still, you know, 2345   for the mind and 345 for body and soul.   But to achieve   3, to achieve   4, to achieve 5, which is where I do my annual goal. So I would normally go when I do my annual to annual, I go, okay, could I potentially move myself closer to a 2 or a 3 or a 4 in this particular area? What do I have to do? And if I tick all them off, I'll consider myself going to there.   But when I see that I go to move into those other next levels let's just call it and again it's just my view of what these levels are   would be for all considerations   beyond what I would have conceived success   way back in the day. It would just be something ridiculous   that   if I maybe had to ask myself at a younger age to go   not needed or maybe I'd go like, oh, wow. That's crazy.  

Now I go,   is it even needed? Like, is it needed for me to get to an imminent   body level of 4 or mind of 4 or soul of 4?   Maybe maybe it's it's   the aspirational,   the   progression, the that would be really fun to do it and, you know, figure out how to do it, But then in other respects, I go   and if I don't, if I just leave it as it is right now, that's also fine too.   And I think there's   that debate going on in my mind at the moment where I go   is it time to pull up stumps for a little while once given up on life   is it is it time to go you know do I really need to go another year where I I really push the boundary on on learning languages or   structuring even more detailed things about accounting accounting that I'm doing or, you know, as I'm talking to you right now, there's these two opportunities that I've got right now from from selling from a business perspective.  

We were looking at purchasing something like a business or you know, I could look at all these different permutations   and go   yeah, but do I like again do I have to?   Is it a thing? Now   I will be honest I probably have much more about well growth is good type mentality than many many other people do that's all of me let's let's be realistic I probably will continue to do that. That's that's just in my nature.   But I still question myself and go, you know, I can see I can see the other side of just going,   yeah, maybe not for this year. That I would I honestly, I would probably build anxiety in me to not do that. Like if I if I if I didn't now do an annual goals and monthly goals and and whatnot, I think it'd build an anxiety of   then when I'm doing day to day and it feels busy, I go, oh, but am I actually pointed the right way? So, you know, it has its benefits,   but there's that consideration now that starts to play my mind I wonder I wonder if people who   whether they do it whether they structure that annual goals and monthly goals and all that or they don't.  

If they get to a point where they they do start considering like, okay. It like, you know, have I   done enough and reached enough or is it time to pursue something else or pause altogether?  

[00:21:33] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah.   I think everyone goes through these things. So I was watching   a ultra marathon video the other night.   I think it's down under   125 or something like that.   And so 125   miles, I think it was   220   ks   thereabouts   in,   somewhere in Australia. And  

[00:21:54] Juan Granados:

these people. Is this recent?  

[00:21:56] Kyrin Down:

Recent one. Yeah. Yeah. We could have watched the same video. We share a YouTube account. So   one, I sometimes get baby videos. Oh, like, I was  

[00:22:05] Juan Granados:

like, I don't know if I've watched it, but if it's really reason that I know some people who competed it. Okay. That's all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And  

[00:22:12] Kyrin Down:

the   these people are insane. There's definitely   some insanity going on. And it's really fascinating watching because   the video is not   exciting. They're not you're not watching athletes sprinting at breakneck   speed. All you really see is them coming into the rest stations,   like hobbling  

[00:22:32] Juan Granados:

along, putting their shit down, sitting down, eating a sandwich, being like, oh, you know what that's about. Ultra marathons and the like, right? But it's basically a food eating competition. That's basically what it is. I was listening to a podcast today,   the Omnia Performance podcast   where they were talking about how could they do a lot of ultra marathon running   roughly   for athletes   performing that they wanna be getting around 90 grams of carbs per hour. Mhmm. And we don't know if you're listening at home, you've tried to eat food while you're doing long   endurance events, like it massively just something quite bad. Like 90 grams of like 90 grams of carbohydrates a lot and then they talked about the tour the France athletes   cyclists   get up to like 120 grams of carbs per hour like that's a ton load like you're eating a hell of a lot in these competitions so it's they basically call it's a food eating competition than it is it's like   it's a food eating competition   on Tired Lakes, something like that. That's basically what it is. So, you know, not not super fun to watch. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you see these people come in and and the fascinating bit is their  

[00:23:35] Kyrin Down:

their struggle against themselves where you can see them asking themselves, why am I doing this?   Why   why should I stand up now   and do another   70 ks's   or 30 ks's to the next rest station? Why? Why am I doing this?   And   it's weird because they voluntarily choose to do it, but they voluntarily just putting themselves in this just horrendous   suffering   from what I can tell.   And,   I guess that's their version of moving forward, living in the moment.   I imagine some of them are probably doing it   in a out of a place of   kind of loving kindness to themselves and that, you know, I will go crazy. I will annoy my partners. I will   be a shit shitter person for not doing this. And then there's probably some other people going like, I'm going to face some demons. This is like self destructive.  

This is my way of   almost, you know, some some people   let themselves slide down into the   the bliss of drugs and   heroin and ruin their life that way. I think other people can go the opposite way and ruin their life by, you know, chasing these ridiculous extremes   to the point of  

[00:24:51] Juan Granados:

death, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, the   Gorgans   in. Yeah. Saved in this book was great example.  

[00:24:59] Kyrin Down:

He was That that was it? When do you reckon he'll die? He's gotta die young, man. Like, it's   he surely can't be getting to 80.  

[00:25:06] Juan Granados:

I reckon he will. I reckon he will. Yeah, yeah, I think he will. I actually think there's probably   crazier people than Goggins in the sense   of pure physical things they do. I think it's just his is more, maybe well documented and has some other issues like associated with it but there was one   race, I think he   what was it? He trained the day before, like, really heavyweights because he was still a seal, a navy seal. And so one of his commanders was like,   I know you gotta do an ultra marathon tomorrow, so let's train really heavy legs and heavy deadlifts. So they did that at night. And the next day he went did the ultra marathon not really prepared, barely ate like well.   And then towards the end of the race, like he finished it, you went into rhabdo,   which is essentially,   what is it like   kidney? Kidneys? Kidneys. Yeah. Kidneys   like poisoning your muscles and   They they got home. His wife was getting all his partners getting him out. He did some fresh piss, noticed that it was blood this time around.  

He was like shaking.   He went into the home, went into the bar stop and so he was just laying there shaking and you could hear his palm and be like, we need to like, we need to get you to the doctor. Like, you're shutting down.   And   he paraphrased Hippie. He was like, he smiled   and he was like, no. I wanna don't take me yet. I wanna enjoy this pain and suffering and and really feel this like really cherished moment. So I think that extreme Next level. Definitely exists out there somewhere. But you know, you're right. It's people get it because,   you know, they'd rather they'd rather be in suffering than accept like, you know, deal with whatever's been happening in life. Maybe. I think there's parts of that in him like that. There's other parts of it though of, you know, doing something really difficult because then everything else looks really simple. Yeah. No. My   stuff Push back on my My push back to that would be like, well, you know, do you need to be such do such ridiculous things really to feel like everything else is really, really easy? Like, you probably don't have to you know it's maybe to an extreme   other people just find good joy in it for whatever else matters. Yeah. It's this   But if you're putting I can't say black and white is not But if you're putting, you know, significant damage on your body or, you know, detracting in other areas, yeah okay it's it's probably not it's not ideal. I'll I'll call myself out. I know,   I'd say 46. I reckon he'll get to 62 maybe. No. I reckon you'll hit 80. I reckon you'll hit 80. So, you know, for for myself a couple of years ago, maybe I'd be a little bit more hard headed than if I was sick or,   maybe I was flying out the next day. I'd, you know, I'd force myself, like, no. I've planned to do this, and I'm gonna achieve, I don't know, 100 k's of running in the month or whatever else. I would do it. Like, I'd find ways. And even if I'm I'm well and it sacrifices a week's later worth of effort, fuck it. So I'm gonna commit to what I'm doing, and that's gonna be a better better thing.  

I definitely see it very differently now to the point of I didn't do the runs after last afternoon. Fine. I think probably   once a week at least in my fitness and I'm telling my fitness because it's one of those that's been really   like sacrilege if I miss it   Maybe once a week at least I've missed something as part of my training either Iran or something else, but I'm purposefully   the way that I train now,   how would I say it's crossfit? Not just say it's a bit of everything. It's every modality,   but I kind of overload the week so much   in that kind of like airplanes or like airlines. I overpack and expect something to fall on the wayside and then be okay. Similarly, I like over overdo it and then I know like, oh, that particular day. Okay. I'm not gonna be able to make   this particular section of it. That's cool. That's fine. I'm I'm getting enough of it in somewhere else. So I'm may want to modulate it that way, which feels kind of nice at the moment. It's funny. I was just  

[00:28:54] Kyrin Down:

today,   I always do this before traveling because I know one day I'm going to screw up really badly if I don't do this. And it's   simple Reddit search   essential items for for traveling and then it lists   passport,   wallet,   phone,   charger for the phone, these sorts of things.   But the other general advice people have is just don't overpack. Don't, don't pack too much stuff because you can just buy it when you're there. You know, it's very, very rare items that you can only get in one country. Yeah. We make sure we make sure you take your passport in the wallet and the phone. So that big thing is everywhere else. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. Let's let's move on to the value for value section is where we thank people who are helping to support the show. I actually just have this up here as well as 2 extra things. 1, if you do want to see what I'm up to whilst handstanding on my my little break,   if you go to Instagram and check out Lucas H Branco,   that's, think of it like bra and   ho. That's probably the best place to to have a   little squeeze at what I'm doing. And Miguel's   handle is   Miguel_hand_balance.  

If you wanted   to check that out.  

[00:30:10] Juan Granados:

Go listen to the OG conversation with Miguel if you want to get a bit of a taste as well. I'll put the link for that down down below.  

[00:30:17] Kyrin Down:

But, yeah, the value for value section is where we   like to thank some people who are helping to support the show and who   have joined in. I actually see Lucas H Branko in the chat along with your mom who was saying hello and when do you think so   you can do this via a couple of different methods. Probably the easiest is going on to the fountain app,   fountain as in a water fountain and sending a boost via there. And this is where it's a payment of support that comes directly to us via Bitcoin like we're talking about just before. And usually people put a message to that as well. I think we had one for this week, but, there'll be 2, I guess, because we haven't talked about Peter's last one as well. Okay. The lush one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had, yeah. I put something extra in there, didn't I? Correct. So we have 21 from Peter, and then we'll talk about this a little bit. I'm happy to hear you're finally taking it easy, Kyren, mainly because it makes me feel like way less of a lush l u s h. So use that in a noun sense. But I put the   I went I've never actually heard that word before. I know it lush. So I just thought he meant lush as in   probably short for luxurious.  

But there's 2 different there's an adjective for it and a and a noun. So you wanna read off the adjective. I'll go the adjective. Adjective lush  

[00:31:36] Juan Granados:

is lush greenery and cultivated fields. So, growing of   growing luxuriantly   or very rich and providing great sensory pleasure.   And then lush is a noun is a heavy drinker, especially a habitual one.   Beta the heavy drinker.  

[00:31:53] Kyrin Down:

He's exposing his his himself to us. That's  

[00:31:57] Juan Granados:

a. Less of a lush.   Yes, Karen definitely going to be taking a little bit easier. That's right, Peter. Over the next couple of weeks, which will be a good thing. That's a row of ducks. 2,222   Southside using fountain.   Thank you very much, Peter. And then another row of ducks using fountain. 2,222.  

[00:32:12] Kyrin Down:

So the other reason I put that in there was because you can use lashes and as an adjective   or you can say lusher or luscious.   Luscious. I had never even heard of these different   or you missed out the other one, which was sexually attractive. Oh, who feels less sexually attractive? Slightly attractive.  

[00:32:30] Juan Granados:

For some reason that I don't know whether he was actually intending that, although it would be hilarious, you know, if that's what it was.   The other one there's though from Colin Comic was   Karen's eating habits make me laugh, keep chip   keep chipping away at what is healthiest, focus on little wins. I should write down my goals for a change.  

[00:32:48] Kyrin Down:

From Cole. Yeah. Definitely write them down, Cole. I think it's helpful to do that.   The   amount of times you just miss things or forget them or all all that sort of cannibalistic.  

[00:32:58] Juan Granados:

Yeah, running it down as much as possible as much as you know is saying to do so in a lot of things is a good thing.   Finding   silver color reading meditations at the moment by Marcus Aurelius   makes me   consider   how terrible my writing and my   maybe interpretation of something that I'm doing when I'm writing it down and summarizing it is As I'm reading this, I go, I can't believe this was just random notes that this person was taking   to whatever whatever he was thinking at the time. Like, it was just like   like a massive   clarity. I go, surely surely this must have been, you know, touched up and cleaned up in between   actual notes through translations and what it actually means. Like, surely. I don't know I don't know to what extent. I've never, like, properly looked into it. But in any case, makes me go, yeah. I'm I'm writing down my   notes and goals,   but, man, there's a there's a wide divide between   it being   coherent   and really really useful  

[00:34:00] Kyrin Down:

beyond ramblings. I wonder how he wrote them down as in was   imagine pay probably   scarce.  

[00:34:09] Juan Granados:

At the time, man, if you're if you're if you're, you know, the ruler of Roman time. Surely at the apple.  

[00:34:16] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the first early investors in Evernote. So I got  

[00:34:20] Juan Granados:

beta access. After 10 pairs, of course. Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:34:24] Kyrin Down:

No, I don't know. I don't know. Perhaps his writing was so clear because he was constrained to make it clear.   That's the point. Yeah. He you know, I don't know. What did he have a scribe engraving this? No, no, he didn't because  

[00:34:37] Juan Granados:

they I'm pretty sure in the book that I'm reading at the moment, the initial notes was that a lot   of a lot of that book meditations   came from when he was actually on the front line and on the north.   Yeah. Well he was in the front line then he would be riding them in the tent. Yeah. So I think it was just him actually riding into the book.  

[00:34:57] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. So yeah. These these weren't the the musings of a,   like guy at the end of his career old man  

[00:35:05] Juan Granados:

who'd done lots of things and now had rose tinted view of the past. Yeah. It was very He was like in the moment. Yeah. He's in war. He's Yeah. Whatever how many years it was that he was, like, 7 years or 9 years Yeah. That he was ruling in the war. In the thick of it. In the thick of it. Yeah. So yeah. Anyways, make sure you consider yes, Carl. Write it down. And if you can get a little bit closer to the way Mark's really is right, that would just be Go to war, Carl. This is what I'm here. Go to war improve improve   improve the your writing. Don't go to war. Let's talk AI.  

Yeah. Yeah. You wanted to talk about AI. What's going on? So there's 2 actually  

[00:35:36] Kyrin Down:

related topics. So those AI and V4V,   which I want to talk about.   Let's start with AI.   So I I played around with it for the first time   in 3 or 4 months recently just because there was some chapter art that I wanted to I had nothing for. And so I went, oh, okay, this would be just quick. I'll just whip up something quick and I could not get it to work, man. What I was asking for it was what what program were you using? First of all, so I was using,   so I started off with Venice. I and I'll talk about that shortly.   And that was the main one that I was using because it just had some free you can do I think you get 10 free image prompts with that.  

And then I eventually   found out, oh, okay, we've got a   package with Adobe  

[00:36:25] Juan Granados:

online. I'd never even heard about it, man. Adobe's terrible. They're terrible promoting this stuff telling you what they have. Yeah, what they share. Yeah.   Maybe it's for a reason though. There's probably Probably a reason people use it. Well, I actually just thought because in general with most,   services out there, so AI or any others you think about, you pay a monthly fee   not not anymore is it a thing where you pay per user it's like per fee yeah subscription but because adobe is a suite you know it gets paid over all. Like most people are either buying the whole package or you're buying one particular thing. If you're buying the whole package then then then the demand of you utilizing like the more you use it the more it costs them. Yeah. Exactly. In essence. Yeah. So especially the ai. Maybe it's in their favor to not really promote. I think because if you don't use it. Yeah. That's funny for them. That makes sense to me. So I found out there's a thing called Firefly, which I could just access online  

[00:37:19] Kyrin Down:

and and start doing it. I wouldn't even need to download a thing onto my computer, whatever.   And basically what I was asking was I thought it was relatively simple.   On the left hand side of the picture, I want an Australian guy with a cat at his feet. On the right hand side, I want a Colombian guy with a dog at his feet, and I want them to be in a confrontational scenario. I saw the image of this. Wasn't that great? It's terrible. It's terrible. And   I eventually found a combination to to make it a little bit better. This was after the fact, much after the fact,   but   it did make me realize, okay, my prompt game is pretty shit   and,   probably probably need some improvement. And I went, You know what?  

I should get better at this. This is one of the things that probably will come in a little bit useful   how can I see this becoming   critical for the future?   I don't know how. But   I definitely see that being able to use these new tools that are coming out and getting familiar with them at the very least so I can relate to other people   As I say, for example, once wearing a state of origin shirt at the moment,   I wouldn't call it a source of friction.   Maybe that I used to have in my old workplace was I didn't care. I did not give a fuck about state of origin and I would refuse to even care refuse to even care refuse to even find out the score, refuse to be able to comment on it. So when I did inevitably   talk with someone the day after a game had occurred, and they talked about it, and I'd be like, I don't really follow football.  

Yeah, that's that's almost end of conversation. That's that's kind of, okay, this guy doesn't even   want to try.   So this is one of those things where it's okay. Okay. This is probably going to work its way somehow into everyone's   life.   It would be good to   know some prompting note and be able to know how how to do these things. So I've kind of committed myself to using these more, we have the access, the tools to do it. I'm gonna start creating more chapter art and try and   learn how to make   it do what I want and and create some images. Some one tip that I'll give you would be actually Yeah. But before even that, if people have   a podcast that they listen to on the rules of thumbs of of AI   generation  

[00:39:45] Juan Granados:

of using these things, of understanding them even send them my way. So I'd love to to know that. Like a high level one. Yeah. The the guys are in school of masterships, which say I'm a member of with Louis Mosca. School of mastery. School of mastery. Louis Mosca.   I can't attend the live stuff because it's on 7 PM on a Wednesday,   but usually so when you go away it's like I can actually tune in live   they've been doing a few ai stuff which has been interesting at least to pick up like what other people are thinking in a more marketing businessy business sense. So it's easy. One thing I found though with images particularly so I kind of exclusively use chat gpt for like the full paid version of it and we have now for like months months months.   When you say we, you mean you? I say yeah, me. And when I say me, I mean my company. So   the   the one thing I found though is that from a text perspective, it is kind of getting better. The chargeability does a pretty good job. The king still is mid journey. You still have to pay for it. Like, it's a good amount of money. The mid journey makes like   brilliant things. But the one tip that I have found around images has been   leveraging the ai itself to make the incantation.  

Yes. Better. Brandon was telling me about this. Yeah. So one thing I found with some of the ones I was creating for the book reviews. So if you,   go and see the thumbnails for the,   be useful by on Swartzenegger 1 took a few things from the Lewis Marco conversations,   saw a few other things and then use the AI to improve the AI. So one of the things I found quite helpful was for a lot of images making it symmetrical.   Seemed to produce like really cool looking stuff. So one, making it symmetrical, but 2, what I would tend to do is   write, oh, hey. I want to do these certain things. I want it to be symmetrical. I want it to be this particular aspect ratio.  

Can you   improve on this? And like, you know, I want to Colombia on the left hand side and blah, blah, blah, blah, the right hand side, I'd be like, can you write a really detailed,   you know,   you know sentence so that you can generate for me a really great looking thing and then it creates thing and then I go okay turn that into an image and then it does it really well. The other thing that I found   is when you get the description of an image.   So   depending on the AI that you use,   you can actually find the output of the text that it's using to create them.   So sometimes when you say, I will put a podcaster on the left hand side and put a   dog on the right hand side, make an image of it. It'll spit something out, but sometimes you can actually see what text it actually used to create that, and it's slightly different to yours.  

And you can grab that text and then modify that one, and then it gets to be a little bit nicer.   Although chat gbt is   although a few versions see this, but with chat gbt, you can actually open the image   and select specific areas to be like, oh, no. I want this to be blue or I want this to appear with this or whatever else. Not too dissimilar to Adobe's   generative AI field, but a little bit better, I'd say. Yeah. Brandon was saying he used chat gbt,  

[00:42:44] Kyrin Down:

the text version   to write in, hey, I want this sort of image,   but can you write it so that it will,   with more detail so that Midjourney will be able to create something nice from it? And then it would   start suggesting   better ones. And then I have this aperture of this. I want it on this style.   The framing should be at this length,   etcetera, etcetera.   And then, you know, taking that pasting it elsewhere would give him  

[00:43:12] Juan Granados:

significantly better results. Yeah, exactly. So I think you can utilize the technology itself to then apply to one of the things that I'm finding, sorry, I won't divulge too many details, but   one of the things that we're playing around with now, this is in a company setting and it's structuring a business,   It's in a space where it's very,   let's say technology hasn't   been as readily adapted into that space   and because it hasn't been readily adapted, it's not I'm not even just talking AI, I'm talking like general like form taking on a freaking tablet and it's still like paper format. So, you know, it's very ancient   in the sense of where the world's at today   and we're applying   the use of ai   quite formidably, quite formidably   to the point that there's a particular task or a particular job task, which generally wouldn't be   supremely profitable because it takes quite a lot of hours to set up.  

And we've, you know, takes a couple of hours, but utilizing again, in this case, Chargegbt,   an enterprise level one   to set up things, create some documents in   very, very quick turnaround times   to the point that all of a sudden this thing that would normally be that profitable   is ridiculously profitable   because of these texts that we're using and you go, oh, shit, like, you can start unlocking a lot of things here.   Sorry. And what you're talking about, I think one, at least knowing it because it's gonna be just things that people talk about. I think a lot more as time goes on. That's one   thing. But I think to those who operate in in companies, business structures, whatever else, I I think it's gonna very very very very very quickly just keep kind of come over   and it's gonna keep people   out of spaces or you're gonna just have to start getting used to it. That's how you just operate. That's like part of your   workforce. One of the things we used to talk about in chatbots back   in 2016,   2017 when we're doing them. So I remember   coding a chatbot using Google   Google Firebase and Google chatbot or something like that. And I had to put the intent and the response   and then it would kind of you train it manually train it. So I was creating them at the time. And so how it used to work is   you have, like, the coding back end system.  

You can say, like, okay. When this person says hello or something similar, hello, hey, blah blah blah. I want you to respond in this way. You give it maybe 3 or 4 variations and it was smart enough that it would pick up like, oh, okay. If you say this, you want that and then it could drive an intent different like different streams. So if you've come in and you're   I can cite you on one stream of oh it looks like you want some shirts cool do you wanna you wanna look   really stunning do you want something sporty and then you could lead them that way? I look shit. But it's very manual and you also have to go in there and kinda give them the updates, right? So it's all these things. It was hard, but even then when I remember both doing it and talking about it in a in a work context, it was very much a case of, oh, yeah. You gotta consider this tool   as an additional   employee basically because the only thing about it, it's taken away your job. What it's doing is   enhancing your job by helping you out and interacting and all that sort of stuff.  

That was then, I think.   Now,   so personal, you know, fun stuff aside from a work context, it's more of a shit. I mean, this is like very genuinely   realistically just gonna keep people straight out of work that they're doing and they better go figure out something else that you do, but only to the point that,   in this particular aspect and you know the details of it, but this particular aspect for people at home, we've hired a few people, 44 people so far that since we've established the utilization of more ai and every single one of them, the key thing that we have taught them and trained them up on is not, it is what the company does. Hey. This is how we interact, and here's equality, and this is what we do. Although, we do all that. Right? General training that you do at any particular specific area. It's   this is how you use the AI that we have.  

This is how you apply it.   Use it. Be smart with it because obviously you've got its challenges and its problems. So you gotta apply smart and intellect to it.   But it's we're like heavily investing in the oh, yeah. That's what you're gonna be trained up on. That's gonna help you kind of unlock the speed and efficiency that you can do to do whatever. And I could see that trend becoming much more of a reality to the point of,   I I could foresee that in 5 years time.   Mhmm. I've used yeah. I'd say 5 years. I'll say 5 years. In 5 years time,   young professionals or young people going into the workforce, for the most part, most of them,   you're almost either gonna be expected to know how to utilize it   or you'll be coming into a field where the big players are now going to be the ones who are like just using that all the time. Yeah. That's the thing. But in a personal sense, I think   similar time frame maybe where everyone will just be talking about it or, you know, sharing memes that are personally created or something else where it's very ai generated or use Unless you're meta who puts a stupid   Instagram ai bullshit Facebook Messenger ai bullshit that nobody I don't know who used that, but it looks terrible. I never use it. Doesn't even function. The only thing I know of that is every time I try and add my dad on WhatsApp group chat,  

[00:48:16] Kyrin Down:

The AI is one of the 3. So it's, you know, there's 3 of us in the group chat. And it's really it puts itself in there as well. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. Like, no, that's that's the only interaction I've had with that one. Okay. But yeah, okay. So you're getting yourself you're playing around with the AI. Yeah. Okay. Well, you had a good spiel there. So let me give mine.   I did not care about this stuff when it was popping off a couple of years ago. I was extremely uninterested,   even up until   kind of recently. I was still in the back burner. But now now it's it's kind of like the AI not winter.  

What would I call it? It's frosty like it here is in Brisbane is the AI frostiness.   No one's really talking about it that much. So it's like election time.   That is the other reason I want to do that cleanse because I don't think I followed political people on my phone. Jesus Christ. The amount of just US bullshit that's that's starting to pop up. Yep. I got to I got to cleanse it. I can't I can't deal with this shit. Wild with the things. I don't think I've I've saw it a little bit when Trump got indicted or whatever it was. But apart from that, not seen anything else. Lucky you. Well,   I have inadvertently followed   people it you know, because it's kind of like, I'll follow someone who's v for v. They'll talk they'll be mostly v for v related stuff. And then they start talking about politics.  

I can't deal with this. Yeah. So   I don't even know where that came from.   So for but because it's kind of uninteresting now, now's the time where I actually should get a bit more interested in it because   it's I can sort out the wheat from the chaff, what's bullshit, what's not, and things like that. So   there's a couple of things I've been looking at   on the   real minutiae   day to day scale   of things.   Basically everyone I've talked to recently   is I would say they work at 30% capacity.   They have so much dead time in their jobs.   Almost everyone that I'm talking to,   this, this being   more kind of professionals in a technology   sense.  

My   uncles, solar, the earth farmers,   They're doing shit all the time.   They're doing physical things. I was not taking any of their jobs anytime soon.   But certainly my cousins, some of them, I'm like, oh, shit.   How much like, how much work do you actually do? What are you what are you doing? It's like, I got I got a whole bunch of dead time for 8 months of the year. I don't really do that much. It's like, okay,   a couple hours work a day and my tasks are done.   And I have friends similar position. There's just like a lot of dead time. Yeah. I guess I see the reality of that. Honestly, if you're if you're half capable, that should be the reality. This is yeah. This is not new new new news. But,   I remember in 2014   when I was working, there was a guy who used to be a   productivity   expert or something like that before we moved into the mining industry.  

And he was just casually offhand mentioning one day   yet people work at 60% capacity   as that's that's the general   overall   across like all companies no matter   like the big, the small, the top, the bottom doesn't doesn't really matter. People average out at about 60%.   I was like, nah, that's full You're full of shit. And,   you know, I certainly work more than that. He's like, no, no, no, no.   Like, this is what actually happens. And if I look back now, I go, yeah, I was probably working at about 60%. There's there was a lot of bullshit that could have been cut out.   And I think with this, I think it's probably gone down even a bit more. People may be working at 50%, 40% nowadays   compared to 10 years ago.  

And this is where I think those those tasks and tools   could come in and yeah, just completely   take a person   or person's jobs out of a group of 5 and just be like, no,   you know,   mud maps. I had to draw all these fucking lines on these mud maps and   put the circle in the square.   I could definitely see if I trained myself a bit going,   you know, add this color to this thing, put this overlap here, bam, and it could just   create these things way better than I could. Oh, for sure. Yeah.  

[00:52:32] Juan Granados:

I'll give you an example.   The to create   a sop and a standard operating procedure   to let me get the   the general details of how one's done and how it's structured, who should be interacting, all this sort of stuff. Let think of any   SAP in a in a business context accounts. Right? Accounts could be billing, could be payroll, could be petty cash, could be,   reimbursement, any of those.   If I was to ask a general capable individual,   I'd say, hey, can you create an s o p for something like this? Figure it out. Go look at it. Get the generality. We'll we'll do some updated details.   Maybe I'd say 1 an hour. Maybe 1 every 2 hours, you know? Like, it might take you a while to set up the structure. I go get it. And if I ask you, like, yeah. I want I'll give it to 3 people. I want you to get done in, like, 2 or 3 days. Okay. You probably expect it. I saw it being done this morning.  

14 of them, 15 of them in like 10 minutes. Yeah. And I went   damn like that's that's quick quick. Now those need a little bit of a review and Cost. Of course. But what you're talking about is when you can have it your hands in a, you know, 80% good and then need the further review, something that might have taken 3 people who are working at 30%, 40%, 50% capacity   couple of days. All of a sudden, it's one person and another one to review and you're getting it done in half a day and then you've got   3 days extra to do stuff,   you either a, you're gonna get lots of more lacy people which is I think going to happen in some areas or b you're going to get just ridiculously effective   teams and companies that are going to spawn up and just   decimate other areas that are just not quick enough because, of course, you can just react ultimately.  

Most companies out there are most things that you do. You're serving an ultimate outcome whether it's   for yourself personally or for like a client or a participant or whatever have you. If you can deliver   that equality and faster things to the fucking who cares how you're doing it, but you can do it? Well, they're gonna go with you and that's what I think will destroy a lot of other spaces for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So I guess all of that is my way of saying, I think there's actually something there.  

[00:54:37] Kyrin Down:

I don't I don't think it's, it's all hype. And   you know, that   we're all just going to be just using pictures and   text and   having these ridiculous conversations with AI. And you can see the ridiculous stuff that comes out where it's it's suggesting that you   glue pepperoni back onto your pizza using glue.   That's the the most efficient way to keep it and and funny stuff like that. Have you seen the latest stuff from chatty p t four o about languages?   I'll show you after this. Okay, cool. So if you haven't folks, you check that out. Chatty p t 4.0 languages. Okay. So so I definitely think there's something there. So this expands, like, the bigger the bigger worldwide view now, which is   I'd I'd feel comfortable making some predictions of  

[00:55:22] Juan Granados:

Oh, here we go. Predictions.  

[00:55:24] Kyrin Down:

Of how   how I imagine the world going.   And,   and so there's a this   people will try and use this as as usual with powerful things which can   change the world.   Let's look at the industrial age like this steam technology, the machines,   they're going to take all our jobs. They're dangerous for the environment. They're,   you know, just you'll hear bad people and then   people saying shit about it, people saying good things about it. But it's undeniable that it is   going to actually be super productive.   Obviously in that sense, it was more   manual labor productivity that was getting replaced rather than intellectual labor, I suppose.  

Now, but I think it'll have very similar consequences   overall, which is   some people will lose jobs, new jobs will be created, probably way more new jobs will be created.   And likely and things that once were will change   the amount of horses I think decreased   by 99%   in the 70 years following the industrial revolution just because   people didn't need horses anymore, you know? So   a lot of the world will change.   Is the world a worse off place because there's no horses,   less horses, way less horses?   I don't think so. Is it worse for the horses?   You know, is. Yeah. A good question. Is the child that would have been born 6 generations from now,   worse off because they didn't exist because   microplastics or some shit. I don't know. That's a that's a deeper philosophical question. I'm not going to try and attempt to answer that now.  

People will try and control this. Governments definitely will try and control this.   And this is why Venice AI I was talking about. So Eric Voorhees, who I admire a lot,   one of the OG Bitcoiners, you can see photos of him in conferences in 2012 looking like a doofus with a couple other people,   but who understood very early on   why it was powerful, why it's needed.   He was he was talking recently just about   the   I suppose one of the things that's going to happen and is happening is   models are going to try and be controlled by the governments or companies   who are under the control of governments or, you know, the subtle   censoring of   no, you can't type this thing in here like this. It was,   so   some of the once again, hilarious results are you try and there was a couple of models that were put out from, I don't know, Microsoft or something where   you try   and get it to depict like a white guy or a white founding father and it made them all black because diversity or something like that.  

And   so Venice dotai is his attempt   at, one having like an open source language model.   There's many people doing this   and I actually had this kind of fun,   absolute   degeneracy.   I this is where the other degenerative   AI or degenerate AI came in was there was this,   this token,   the Morpheus token   and it's I didn't really understand it, but I was, I was kind of like looking into it. I'm like, I've got a little bit of play money right? And I wanted to   experiment with some of the Ethereum stuff. So, man, I was doing some wild things. I was, I was bridging.   I was, I was staking the things I was   so fun.  

It was so funny, man. Just, just trying this stuff out and be like, God damn, this is I've,   I made it work and I didn't lose any money doing it. And it was only play around money. So, you know, not not recommended advice at home, but   it was kind of fun just going down and trying all these things and being like, damn. See what happened. There's there's a lot you can do with this stuff.   Would I recommend it? No, not really. But it's like good to try it out. You can do a lot of things.   In any case, I do definitely believe that there is going to be a need to   try and figure out if the AI you're using is shaping you more than you're shaping it. And if   if the results it's giving you are,   skewy  

[00:59:42] Juan Granados:

to to try and figure that out. But that's that's not also a new concept as well that that's existed in all forms of mediums that people search engines. You could say they've been doing that   for a while. So it's engine, but you get same thing,   books,   like where you get it more like where you get the information. I think it'll become   even take a chatty bitty and some other AIs. They they can actually have a little thing on most of them. It's like, hey, watch out. Sometimes we do get the thing wrong or whatever. So it could be wrong. It could be   guiding you in a separate particular way because of the implied rules that they have behind it. Yeah. That's not too dissimilar to what already exists in, you know,   other like forms. Like we were talking about beforehand, the podcast between Joe Rogan and was it Terrence Howard? So it's nice. Yeah.  

Wild. And I was listening to it on the way, yeah, from, the office. I was just laughing, like, just listening to it for 20 minutes being like, what in the hell's going on in this particular place? Scratchy shit. Yeah. Because someone could listen to it and be like,   woah, this guy's like a huge podcaster and this   maybe this kinda makes sense and maybe this is reality and I'm gonna spout that out. Sure. Sure. Yep. I think this is also a part of, okay, you have to like, assess it as well in your own mind and be like, okay. Is this do I wanna believe this? Do I not wanna test it? Terryology  

[01:00:55] Kyrin Down:

could be true. And I'm glad he's able to correct. We're not. Terryologists.   To try and do   the point I suppose I'm getting at is   the reason it's good that you can have all these things is you can create your own website, you can host your own servers, you can do all of these things   and   put up the craziest shit out, which is completely false and stupid.   And you could also,   you know, be able to communicate with people about the most revolutionary   idea   in the last   10, 20 years,   which for me seems to be Bitcoin. I suppose you could make an argument that the there was a paper on   the first one that really got the iterations of large language models and the technique of   of being able to predict the next   letter  

[01:01:44] Juan Granados:

to coherently form that that's pretty revolutionary as well. I wonder if we look back and we'll say whether Bitcoin or AI was the bigger  

[01:01:53] Kyrin Down:

the bigger thing. We'll figure out it could be that joint thing where   both merge  

[01:01:59] Juan Granados:

are useful together. And that's that's the most important thing. I think Jeff was doing this Jeff you from on a crime a few months ago. I remember him posting this.   I think he might have posted to his Twitter. And then he goes, he was using it wasn't charging pity. It might have been another one. And I remember him   asking the AI particular questions around what sort of monetary system would it build   should this such happen. And I think often it would   land on something very similar to Bitcoin.   And   I think it was to the point that it would build something that was similar to Bitcoin,   or in the opposite sense, it would pick up Bitcoin as the thing it would continue to operate with as being the most sensible thing moving forward. La la la la. Yeah. I was like, it could be like a joining thing, like a paid up thing. Yeah.  



[01:02:45] Kyrin Down:

The important thing is that you have the options available that I suppose the   the fundamentals   of   of being able to access   of it's like the freedom, life, liberty, property of, of being able to   experiment with things, to try things out that   the   the guys of this is for your safety. We're not going to let you do this model.   You know, you can't type in these sorts of things because   this could harm someone or things like that.   You   know, technically, I saw it on your phone just before you had a picture of Vienna and she was naked. Technically, I guess you could say why don't you go to jail? He's got child pornography.   True. Obviously, that's so stupid. And   if you know someone tried to put you to jail for that I'd be the first one being like that's the stupidest shit out you know I don't know I've been to jail I can get one out   but but, you know, it's, it's, it's such   a when you, when you see on the minutiae of,   okay, I can I just want to try this out? I just want to do this thing.  

And then someone's like arbitrary   barrier. No, you can't do that because   safety or whatever reason.   I'm definitely one for   advocating that those things should be removed. And I think that stuff is happening. So   in that case,   I'm on I'm on the positives.   I look at the optimistic side of,   of AI. And I think this stuff is going to be good. For human flourishing in overall. There's going to be, of course,   battles and fights. And just like there was battles and fights for   PGP, you know, pretty good privacy.   You used to used to be illegal to have   written on the shirt,   the code   for how to actually use PGP. And so some guy would   would print it out as a shirt just to show how ridiculous like I'm at committing serious war crimes here in the U. S. By having this shirt, which has a couple of lines of code. It's like, well, okay, well, how is code?  

You know, actually commit a war crime here or something. So well.  

[01:04:55] Juan Granados:

And I think with the   the bit that gets I'm similar like positive, I think it's going to be a thing that advances human flourishing.   But how does one deal how does community and a group in the world deal with   the more gray things which then start battling or head butting   the existing   justice   domains that we've set up and accepted and follow in a large majority like a like a legal system or just in general what we believe   justice and the correct morality is, you know, if you want a free flowing AI that can do everything and unleash it and unlock it and don't have it government bound or company bound,   does then that equally allow you to produce and generate and create crazy stuff that then would be, you know, something that wouldn't from a justice perspective or legal perspective be allowed? Is that a good thing? And should we allow that? No. I guess you it's like,   well, I guess so because it's, I guess, more freedom. But then, yeah, there's there's gonna be you can take it to some extremes and be like, okay, well, no, you wouldn't want such a thing happening.  



[01:06:01] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, it's funny. You can come up with arguments of why it would be great for   AI child porn to exist, for example, because   that existed   as far as I'm aware,   it's similar to video games where did video games violent video games actually   increase violence?   I'm pretty sure the answer to that is a resounding no.   I imagine the same thing would be   the same for child   AI porn, you know, will this create more pedophiles?   I doubt it. I think if anything, it would reduce the amount of actual pedophilia   happening because that shit's fucking dangerous. And if you get caught, you go to jail forever and   you get   like bad stuff happens to you in jail if they know you're a child predator or child. Yeah. Yeah.  

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. It's interesting how you could just look at these things and say, like, this is for your safety, but it ends up actually   maybe not causing more harm, but   stopping   harm that could have been happened, like real harm, actual harm from happening. Yeah, I think you could see  

[01:07:09] Juan Granados:

both sides of a debate in relation to that. But I think that's what you start unlocking with a free flowing   AI, which which again has its has its benefits. And it's if it was small nuclear reactors that could,  

[01:07:21] Kyrin Down:

you know, torture   a suburb.   And that technology was was trying to be repressed,   I could maybe get on board with that because there's there's certainly a cycle or 2 in every suburb, but it's  

[01:07:35] Juan Granados:

like an AI model, they're gonna type in their computer. You know, what's what's the worst? Well, what if the AI model is like, you know, someone's like, you guys in there is like, what's the best way I can kill   everyone in this city as quickly as possible without being caught and whatever? And I was like, here's all the variations you could do. And they're and they're gonna be shit variations. There's not gonna be much they   can do, man. It's it's I don't know. I reckon it maybe come up like a fully   unchained crazy AI, maybe. I don't  

[01:08:01] Kyrin Down:

think the thing that's stopping   someone from You know, we can't everyone. Can't ask the AI, though. Is, technique.  

[01:08:07] Juan Granados:

I don't think We've had many we've had many questions back in the mere mortals days of, you know, how would you get away if and you know, we had that podcast.  

[01:08:16] Kyrin Down:

Everyone's chasing you. There's a helicopter on you right now.   You've got   48 hours to to hide.  

[01:08:24] Juan Granados:

I think we need to ask the AI some of these hard hitting questions. Should go back to it. Yeah. And see if it gets any close to whatever we decided.   And if it gives an answer Maybe answers. Answers, then we know we're being repressed by the government. Maybe we'll ask about the, flying flying lion and  

[01:08:50] Kyrin Down:

some stuff about AI in there. Let me bring it up. But on the actual YouTube chat. Yeah. Yeah. But the last thing I,   I wanted to bring up was   with relation to value for value. And this is actually one of the times I'm going to say   Adam and Dave podcasting to what 2 people know. I don't think they're right   or they're,   they're writing off AI too much, I would say. They can't really. Yeah, but but it, what was Dimelik saying in the chat? Now Dimelik says, good morning, bros. I like AI, like  

[01:09:21] Juan Granados:

helping me at work and create AI music.   Yeah. AI music. Cool. I haven't actually trialed that too much AI music. I've used a lot of,   AI voice over. Okay. That's really good. Really, really good, which is what I wanted to use for the,   sort of extra arm of the mere mortal stuff, but I haven't even gone around to it. And I hope praying to God that AI will hit will be used more for games. Like the new GTA 6 n p c acting like real people and you interact with. That'd be great. You'll be waiting a fucking long time for GTA 6 at this point.   Speaking of working and productivity, I'll spend more time in Hoskie Discord than for work. Whoops.  

30 to 40%.  

[01:09:56] Kyrin Down:

Deep deep productivity.  

[01:09:58] Juan Granados:

But, yeah, I agree. I could imagine a lot of people are like that, especially in   less maybe Makes dimmer. Like less intensive, maybe more intellectual creativity   creation of things, you've got that stuff, man. It just simplifies it so much quicker. Right? You don't even have to think about it. It's just create it for me. I'll do a quick check. Go turn it off. Done. You know? And if that takes you an hour,   what's the incentive to you telling your bosses or whatever? Like, I am doing it. I'm now 10 times of quick give me more when you could you know become 10 times quick   look like you're 50% better and still be like completely fine. Yeah. There's a lot of that as well. Yeah, for  

[01:10:34] Kyrin Down:

sure. So yeah, just on to value for value of podcasting to point out, it's been a while since we've had an update. So   my, my enthusiasm for it remains undeterred. I still think it's   probably   one of the strongest ideas I've ever come across in my life. Okay, this is this need   is it needs to happen is going to happen is the is the is the question   I think yes is the answer. But my I think you were probably   more   accurate or   perhaps versed. I don't know whether if this came from an understanding of technology   of networks of things like that.  

But a couple of years ago, you were like, you know, value for value could take,   you know, a decade could take 2 decades, something like that. And I   probably didn't tell you at the time, but I was like, you were leaning towards like, stupid. Yeah, this is gonna happen in like, 2 or 3 years time.   After reading some books of   the Cathedral in the Bazaar, I'm reading a Kevin Kelly one at the moment, which is,   what   is it's talking all about networks   essentially. And so this was in 1998. So really   before social networks were coming out and he had kind of 10,   10 predictions, 10 things   talking about,   you know, this this is likely what the future is going to hold. These type of ideas are the things you should be looking more at and you can apply it to your workplace and see how it will revolutionize.  

And I think it was pretty spot on with   opening, opening things up. And,   you know,   it was all just related to networks. And I think if you want to look back at the 2010s, that was probably the the network   decade   of social. That was when the social networks just   took   where the most important thing that probably happened in that time period.   And   I'm, I'm looking at value for value now. And there's been a couple of like speed bumps recently. For example, Albi   might not be,   utilizing their wallets. It might be harder to utilize them. They might not be integrating as much with the podcasting apps, or at least they're going down a slightly different direction.   I'd say things have kind   of stalled, but the it's like at a at a slow point, the frostiness   once again, I frostiness.  

It's the next plateau. Yeah, a plateau plateau is a good way to put that.   And   you could see this like in our numbers. You can see this probably in the numbers just in terms of total boosting and   streaming payments and things like that. I think it's probably hit like   that threshold of where it's reached all the Bitcoin people who are willing to take that extra step. And now it's it's going to require   another kind of big job hop in terms of   access for normies to get into and whether that's on the technology side, probably a lot related to that in terms of just making things easier   while it's   maybe this is related to regulation. I know that's why Albi's not doing as much. There's kind of unclear regulation. They don't want to get in hot water, etcetera, etcetera.  

My enthusiasm remains undeterred. I still think value for value   is going to be a hugely important concept,   but might be the 2030s,  

[01:13:53] Juan Granados:

not for the 2020. So as I was originally thinking. This particular decade. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, looking at it from   a, like, a funnel or, like, in a business funnel and the like,   you have to if at the end, like, if you wanna sell something to somebody,   generally the progress, like, the the point and the it doesn't it doesn't matter what business you're in, but generally you have to have, like, a level of eyeballs or opportunities which then translates to potential lead which then translates to an actual   conversation that then you can close off or sell a particular item. And if you've got   right amount of percentages that you know, then you can roughly know what you need to like change in this particular sack to make whatever outcome you want at the bottom right. I think for v for v,   the problem that it has is that up to a certain point in the stack, if you are already within the let's call it the leads or someone who is   in tune with the valley for valley space or here, we're talking Bitcoin in generalities,   it's very short order that you'll be participating aka once you're in that next funnel down, you're almost assured to be participating in the space. You know, if you're and you would have seen a lot of the people who operate in the v for v space also, of course, have been around the bitcoin space or   find some of the similar values around what it stands for that also contribute.  

And what's the percentage of people who are in that space or at least listen and participate?   Probably pretty high. Right? Probably pretty high.   But what's hurting value for value at the moment or v for v in generality is that the top level impression or top level eyeballs, it's just very small.   And   to increase that   is very minute, I think, in what the   people within the system can do right now. I think within the system that we operate in v for v,   there's only so much expansion that can be done for the impressions to come in because whatever podcasts are in here or whatever individuals are participating with music and everything else to kind of come in.   What it needs is some like dramatic increase in the top level impressions and eyeballs,   And I don't I don't know what that is, but for sure, one thing that would make it, and I think that's where I had the view of maybe like, oh, maybe like a 10 year decade or whatever, is that   I think that would be facilitated   with the wide adoption of satoshis or bitcoin. Because with the what that wide, all of a sudden,   the impression, the, like, the eyeballs on something like this becomes   huge because then everyone makes sense on how to operate with it. Okay. That's generating a lot of eyeballs. The only way I can see v for v becoming really big really quickly would have to be some pretty   outsized   individuals making big moves into the space   that then makes people go down the path. Why   This happened   in other spaces that kind of like   went really quickly up and then you know fell back down nfts. What happened in nfts?  

It was kinda like the rise of crypto at that particular time. You know? They were around since 2017 and the like.   They came up, came up with the crypto, went back down into the trough, and as a new sort of round came through, right, we were getting into vfriends and a few other things. Bought ape came around boom skyrocket at the same time with crypto. They go all the way up. Celebrities come in like big people, eyeballs are everywhere, media is all over it and then that also kinda like peed it down, not to like 0, but, you know, to a much more substantially less level. I think that the only thing that would trigger technology like me for me to get like a lot of eyeballs would be huge players like a Joe Rogan or what have you or Spotify, whatever or making some gigantic moves into let's use the space,   but I think, the the reality is probably gonna be one of those like, no. I see it being long lasting, but I see it   increasing by the general adoption of more satoshi usage.  

If if, you know, if we didn't have to tell people like, hey, bought the podcast by sending us through some satoshis,   send through a boostogram, which is satoshis   and choose to put a message attached to that, you know, of the steps to that, you have to go and perform things. But if it was just as easy as sending us a message or like a text message like if you could just yeah I don't know obviously it's not right right now but you could text us and we're us as a mere mortals account and you could just decide to attach some to Toshiba through your phone or whatever   and you could go through really easy like man I could see a hell of a lot more people doing that. Yeah. So a couple of things related to that. 1, I think  

[01:18:08] Kyrin Down:

I think there's still more capacity for pain. So artists are definitely feeling it of well, I think   I'll change this content creators. I think I feel in this in all forms, but   I think they can still   debase themselves   further before that. The pain is like unbearable.   Maybe I have a low tolerance for this type of pain. That's why I found value for value relatively early.   But   I think there's, there's probably further that people can go.   A great example is,   what's, what's Spider Man's alter ego in,   the   that that Spider   Verse? No, no, no, no. In the sense of his name, Miles Morales, something like that. I don't know. Okay.  

There's a NPC character, NPC streamer, much like that. The one we talked about,   The ice cream girl.   Oh, yeah. I know. But yeah, I've forgotten her name. Anyway,   the Spider Man version of that good looking black dude Afro   and he jumps off the screen and you can see him like   almost killing himself to   killing himself in the sense of his soul   of like, what he's doing to earn money.   And it's rather amusing because you see like, off,   like the you hear the offhand angles, he ran away from police or something whilst live streaming all this sort of crazy bathroom.   We're back. Apologies, everyone. I didn't even think to plug in my computer. And so we're dead. We're not live on YouTube or anything at the moment. It's a bummer because I had a really good spiel. Yeah, the big spiel while I was going there. The spiel essentially was   the   value for value doesn't necessarily rely on,   satoshi's so it could be used with something else   To my shame, I, I could foresee in the future it being something like Solana or another   token which is easier for wallet creation, for example. That's one of the problems   Albi's having at the moment. And just in general, people creating wallets, it's, it's hard to spin up, use the lightning network,   create liquidity.  

It's not easy. And so   I could imagine in the future a   version which is less idealistic. You know, I like Bitcoin for its principles   and   for what it stands for,   the way it help can   help the world.   The whole notions of decentralized of peer to peer networks, of open networks and things like this.   But after reading a whole bunch of books, I can see   that doesn't necessarily always end up the case. I look at Twitter, it used to be open source used to use RSS. And then it it went into a whole nother bullshit crappy level. So   not a crappy level. It achieved network effects and then they didn't often shift it. Yeah, they didn't need and a lot of the problems that it has now.  

Yes, they wouldn't be there if it had remained open source   and based on RSS,   but it also wouldn't be the   megalithic,   you know, entity that it is at the moment in terms of global communication. So I'm starting to appreciate   I think value for value will be amazing. I think it will still change   still the way forward for digital content creators.   How it ends up looking like I could see myself becoming jaded and going,   this isn't what it originally stood for. I think it'll still improve things. Yeah, but   a,   a 2020   version of Kyron or 2021 probably because that's when I first found out about v for me. He could be disgusted with what  

[01:22:00] Juan Granados:

2028 Kyron perhaps would accept or and and and advocate for. One thing that I'd be scared about is gonna be more so in the sense of   if it   there is gonna be a need for speed at some point and if it doesn't hit   launch off, like, launch territory or   enough of a threshold of uptake,   then I see a real possibility of it just getting gulped up with the rise of technology and eyeballs elsewhere. And by that I mean,   I don't see Instagram and Facebook and YouTube being forever   because eyeballs will go somewhere else at some point and maybe they will upgrade and move on to some be something different   or the eyeballs will go somewhere else.  

That might be a similar thing here where there's a period of time, I think in   the scheme that it participates in, it has a bit of a longer time frame. It's not competing to an Instagram or a social media platform.   But if at some point in the future, it doesn't reach, I don't know what time it is, but it doesn't reach escape velocity to actually get picked up, I think it just gets lost. It just it gets forgotten in the sense of   it was there,   but now the eyeballs have moved on to   whatever to the point that, you know, I can't even like really describe it, but all of a sudden you don't even need that because maybe there is no there is no requirement to, send someone else any monetary value by satoshis or not because,   I don't know, 80% of the population has been put out of work and you just get paid by defaults and there's no need for any of that transaction.  

And that's okay well that's not even needed then in this world maybe. I don't know but there's a limited lifetime to when something can actually uptake. Like I couldn't I wouldn't say to you that   would v for v work in 500 years?   That's like I'd be like I think not and like I think like overwhelmingly maybe no there'll be something else completely different by then so   yeah it's there's a time and place for this thing to be built and there's a limited lifetime for it to work correctly   I hope that I'm optimistic that it will  

[01:23:59] Kyrin Down:

But I'm realistic that it might not. Yeah. And and other technologies could make the whole concept redundant if AI got so good that   and no one was a digital content creator, because AI content creation just like dominated everything. Well, there's no humans.  

[01:24:17] Juan Granados:

Personality for value would perhaps the whole concept of it would be like, well, well, one of the things really matter the big, I don't know how to at least a couple of times was what if you could go to like, it became so good. You could go to an AI and be like, hey. Today, I wanna listen to a podcast about   this topic in this thing between these two people, and it'll generate it. Video, not video in this angle, that angle, whatever. Does whatever. Same thing with movies. Right? I wanna watch a movie. I want it to be about this. I want the main character to be called my name. I want it to look like this. I wanna do that. Mhmm. Create the whole thing. If at that point you're gonna get into that level and I honestly, I recommend gonna get there in 10   years. Yeah. And I reckon 10 years and if you get to that point, what is the point of people checking podcasts?  

If you can generate whatever the hell you want. Now a lot of people, I think in the current sphere of existence will probably still wanna watch things because you wanna connect with other people, but you better believe your bottom ass that people who are like born now like my daughter or anybody else, why would they even go searching for something when they can just generate it automatically   that's gonna do everything they need and not even know that there's like, you know, it is controlled by a government or by a company and then it influences in a particular way.  

[01:25:29] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah.   Topic for another day. The human element I think will remain. But yeah, agreed. Great. Things things can change and   your   ideas of how the world   should be or you want it to be  

[01:25:44] Juan Granados:

can vary drastically. What actually ends up happening. Correct. But look, for now, what we're saying basically is if you could send through just the whole whole bitcoin,   if you're listening to this, very much appreciated.   Absolutely. It would be good. If you do that,   you will get a free t shirt. You get a couple of, yeah. You'll get 1. You'll get a t shirt, you know, limited limited edition at this point in time. Worth there a lot now. This is actually in bitcoin in general, Johnny. Yeah. Our eternal gratitude. Eternal gratitude if you see that too as well. But no, You can't support the podcast, obviously, time, talent, treasure, time obviously listening to the podcast at the moment,   sharing with a friend,   talent. You know, we talked about a couple of things on AI. Are you using AI at the moment? Is there other stuff that we missed out that'd be interesting to share as well? Treasure   sending through a boost program. Right? Send through a boost program. Streaming as well, listening to the podcast while sending through some satoshis   helps out the podcast. Cara's gonna be going off to Brazil. We're gonna be trying to make it obviously work. It's time and it's investment. So any support that people do send through, it's very much appreciated. A 100%.  

A 100%.   Alright, me, mortalites.   This is the finale. Obviously, no video at this point because, we were going for a while, so the laptop just kicked the gear. My phone died as well. Ran out of bed. My phone died as well. Then there you go. A couple of things dying. So for now Will I make it   Will we make it to Brazil? Well, you won't even you won't even know. We're starting to know tech from right now.   Yeah. Hope you're well wherever you are in the world. Bye now. Bye.   Bye. Good.