Mere Mortals Conversations

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Is the real world actually shaped for social interaction!?

In Episode #499 of 'Musings', Juan & I discuss: 2 x books of Susan Cain’s 'Quiet' alongside Paul McKenna’s 'Instant Influence & Charisma', the quiet revolution of introverts rising up, what the book gets right (high reactivity, Big Five personality traits, pseudo‑extroversion), whether energy is the true differentiator, why environments like open‑plan offices and classrooms may suit the loud but don’t always produce the best work or learning, Juan's immense distaste of charisma hacks (power poses, havening), how confidence can be generated from practice rather than posture & how culture shapes what “good” interaction looks like.

Huge thanks to Petar for the support, greatly appreciated!

Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortals

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:04) Two Books: Quiet by Susan Cain and Instant Influence & Charisma by Paul McKenna
(00:05:03) What would a mostly introverted world look like?
(00:06:10) Key claims: IQ parity, persistence, and high reactivity
(00:08:45) Biology tidbits: lemon test, Big Five, and old pseudoscience
(00:10:56) How many introverts? Pseudoextroverts and the energy question
(00:13:38) Definitions matter: the books late caveat on introvert/extrovert
(00:17:46) Workplaces: open plan offices, productivity and culture
(00:23:43) Matching space to work: dev focus vs relationship roles
(00:26:27) Homes and schools: nooks, group work, and when quiet helps
(00:29:38) Socialisation as a skill independent of introversion
(00:32:59) Group dynamics: one on one comfort and smallgroup awkwardness
(00:36:36) Boostagram Lounge
(00:40:56) Would we thrive in an introvert ideal culture? Asia chat
(00:41:21) Paul McKennas charisma: influence recap and power poses
(00:46:43) Do power poses work? State vs posture, confidence from within
(00:51:27) Baselines, triggers and practical state management
(00:54:11) Skills, reps and mini goals beat quick fixes
(00:58:38) Trophies vs generators: focus on process over outcomes
(01:01:11) Milestones, episode counts and wrapup

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[00:00:07] Kyrin Down:

Welcome, mere mortalites, to another episode of the mere mortals musings. We're live here 9AM   on a Sunday, this Sunday being the November 2. You've got Kyrin here. Welcome back.   Oh, my God.   And,   as as usual,   Juan displays his normal behavior of a   extrovert, which is what we're talking about today. So amusing is a  

[00:00:34] Juan Granados:

deep philosophy deep philosophy. Deep conversations with a lot of hard to touch. Practical philosophy. Practical philosophies. And  

[00:00:41] Kyrin Down:

as continuing with my lack of doing book reviews on the actual channel, I do have two books here.   Most of it's going to be around this book here quiet by Susan Cain, which is   the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking. And then there's a reason I was reading this other one instant influence and charisma by Paul McKenna,   alongside with this   and   so Ken's pretty cool. Yep. Yeah. You know him? Yep. I can't embarrass. Okay, there you go. I'd never heard of him before. I'm gonna get one to just start this by reading the blurb of of this quiet book, and I wanna I wanna get his Get my live reactions on this. Of of why perhaps I was pairing it with this. The book that started a quiet revolution.  

[00:01:23] Juan Granados:

For far too long, those who are naturally quiet serious   or sensitive have been overlooked. The ladders have taken over even if they have nothing to say.   It's time for everyone to listen. It's time to harness the power of introverts. It's time for quiet.   What a piece of shit. Fucking   piece of shit. Fuck off, Susan.   Fuck off.  

[00:01:45] Kyrin Down:

That's what I think. What is it? It's a revolution, I tell you. We're gonna take over.   But quietly. Quietly.   Susan Cain. So when I when I read this, and so look, the reason I've got books like these,   I was basically just going through like,   I'm stopping all of my normal type of reading and I'm I'm going far out there in terms of some of the stuff I'm reading and,   in particular, like self help philosophies.   So   things related to like sexuality,   shame.   And there's been some gems and some like,   real ones where it's just like this is so stupid. Why this is why where's quiet sit?   This was   I think I gave it a four and a half out of 10. Okay, so middle of the road, there was one or two things from it, which I thought were discussion worthy.  

A largely I gave it that because there was a lot of things I already knew. Also in this book here, the influence and instant charisma.   The there was a lot of things that I'd just heard about before in it. But yeah,   so that that's   a way of explaining like why I just got this random book and I had, you know, 15 just sitting beside my bed and picked up this one. And when I read this   blurb, I just went,   oh, my God, even for me, like who, you know, taking pride perhaps in being a little bit of an introvert. Yeah, that's, that's, that's pretty full on. That's stretching   it.  

Just let's,   let's so so to combat the   perhaps any biases that might arise from myself reading this and   it just being like a circle jerk of, of us introverts.   Reading this book and feeling like we're the best. I've decided to read a book all about essentially extroversion alongside with it.   But the   there was there was a couple of interesting things with it. First of all, what what do you think you'd find within this book?   Woj?  

[00:03:47] Juan Granados:

Probably the things about difference between being introverted or your energy source and shyness, like those sort of things. Okay. Yeah. Like energy source of introverts and extroverts and where that comes from that sort of stuff, I would imagine.   Yeah, I guess like that differentiation between like, shyness,   how maybe it's like, you know, you don't have to   raise your voice. You can be calm and confident with your speaking. Yeah. So it's  

[00:04:14] Kyrin Down:

as as the, you know,   the motivational   type blurb suggests,   most of the book is related to why being an introvert is good. It's good. Not necessarily better, although there is a slight tinge of that. We are better.   No, it's it's   a it's kind of making the argument, hey, there's a lot of things   that   because   extroverts   are so much more forceful   and assertive,   if you will,   the that   it has like an   not undue a disproportionate   influence on a lot of things in culture and the world. And so I was like, Oh, that Yeah, okay, that could be an interesting   topic. Like what how would things be different if   the   perhaps not the assertiveness like that, that that would remain the same. But let's just say   there was   80%   introverts in the world and 20% extroverts or, you know, 9,010   was the ratio,   how would the world be different? And   in terms of culture, in terms of even like physical infrastructure and things like this?  

What what would actually be different? So that was kind of what set me upon   wanting to talk about it here. Yep.   I'll probably start off with what the book actually has in particularly in the start,   which was related more to as you kind of thought, what are the actual differences? So   these were and I'm just reading the   chapters here. And there's four parts.   Part one, the extrovert ideal   are to your biology yourself.   Three, do all cultures have an extrovert ideal for how to love how to work? Very unhelpful in terms of chapter titles, because   it didn't really do much.  

But here's a couple of things that I took from it, which I thought was   useful as a starting point. So number one, IQ was the same introverts and extroverts.   No, no, IQ differences.   Once looking dumbly at the camera now, so maybe that's maybe that's not correct.   Apparently, persistence   is higher in introverts, but you get more fast results in extroverts.   And these are   broad ish. Like,   there there were some studies to back up what she's saying, but   you'd have to jump into each individual study. And is it like how verified   are these?  

You know, that that'll be hard.   There are some things where   one of the main ones I'd never heard of for was called high reactivity.   And   what would you think that would that mean? High reactivity? Yeah.  

[00:07:01] Juan Granados:

Like a more propensity to move up and down like an emotional or physical scale when like things happen. So you know,   if someone cuts you off in traffic, you know, high reactivity would be like, rather than just being like, Oh, it's annoying. But  

[00:07:13] Kyrin Down:

what are you doing? Okay, actually, and so would that apply to introverts or extroverts?  

[00:07:17] Juan Granados:

If high reactivity? Yeah. I would have said extroverts. Okay. Incorrect. High reactivity is when Oh, as in like when oh, okay. Yeah. When a novel stimulus is presented to you,  

[00:07:29] Kyrin Down:

how how do you react to that? And so for extroverts, and they did this mostly with babies and children. Yep. The   the clam comes along.   Go in front of the kid. Extroverts.  

[00:07:41] Juan Granados:

They're like, nunch along about it. Whatever. Like, oh, that's, that's crazy. Clown thing. Yep. Yeah, That doesn't really stimulate me that much. Just happened Halloween. This happened just a couple of days ago. Yeah. My daughter went up to, there was a someone at the at the house dressed as a full clown. Yeah. We'd lie. Well, you know, looks freaky. Like, we talked about it. We're like, man, that was kind of a scary looking clown. Yeah. My daughter walked straight up to it, grabbed the lolly, said trick or treat, and then walked away. Had another kid who was a little bit more introverted. Let's just say he was a bit more taken aback, kind of judging what was going on. Mhmm. Wasn't like scared, but was like or judging what was happening to it. So yep. Did see this directly. Yep. There you go. Alright. So it's it's it's not all, BS.  

[00:08:22] Kyrin Down:

And   one of the ways you can actually measure this is if you put lemon on the tongue,   introverts will salivate more. There's a   it's like a   biological function that kind of pairs up nicely with this as well, apparently. What the fuck? Yep. And so extroverts,   sorry. Yeah. Lemons don't taste as good. You guys   apparently.  

[00:08:45] Juan Granados:

The kind of signs of that season.  

[00:08:48] Kyrin Down:

So the big five personality trait is mentioned a few times in the book, which is ocean   openness to experience conscientiousness,   extroversion, agreeableness, neuroticism,   extroversion, of course, being the sliding scale   and need to be very high or very low. Extroversion introversion.   So kind of backed up by   what would you call it psychology personality traits, which   are very iffy study from what I gather in general over the years, you know,   back in the back in the olden days, though, she was talking about how there would be, you know, extroverts had more bile in them, for example, there's what people thought, you know, four hundred years ago, there's like a black bile. And that's why certain people   are extroverted. And you can go through   Norse mythology and, you know, the I guess you'd call like   psychologists of different eras and they all had various different,   stereotypes is probably the best, best word of saying it. And then this also gets into like, you know, physiognomy and how you could tell a criminal because their eyes were closer to to each other and things like this. Most of most, if not all of it, pretty much all of it is there's no actual  

[00:10:04] Juan Granados:

validity to that. So,  

[00:10:07] Kyrin Down:

yeah, reading this book, there was there was a few things like the lemon stuff where I'm like,   Yeah, I'm not sure. Question it. Yep. Yep. I'll take it take it her word.   She she said one half to one third of people are introverts. That seems,   high to me from what I   gathered. I thought I thought it was closer to like 80%   extroverts, 20% introverts.   Broad sweeping as well,   using these terms is very hard, because you can have people who   are really good at like, they call them pseudo extroverts, they're good at faking things. I'm actually I'd put myself in this category now, or it's like,   going up to someone on the street. Is that an extroverted thing to do that you've never met before? Kind of? Yeah, like it's a tendency you'd imagine. But then, yeah, and if you saw me in the gym, and the amount of people that I chat to, they probably say like, oh, shit, that guy's extroverted. Yeah. But   if you then combine that with the fact that I'm at home all day   and don't speak with anyone else, pretty much that's my socializing time. So it's not actually that crazy. And I'm not like that. 20 fourseven.  

Yep. And so   probably the biggest thing for me was that there was no mention of energy, if I recall correctly, which was I thought   that was the main distinguisher of how you would call someone an introvert or an extrovert. It's do they get energy from being around other people as in it like it increases their energy or does it drain them from them? Which was that was always my impression of what?   Yeah.  

[00:11:42] Juan Granados:

I don't know. Like, I don't actually know the,   like,   the full signs of it or the lighters, but I've always   because that that's part of a lot of auto had always had being, like, you know, if you're introverted, then generally you   it's like you have a preference or you take energy   in the sense of   being on your own that recharges your battery.   Not to say that you can't then be out in public speaking or talking to others, but you don't   recharge   as well   as you might. And then the opposite way around, if you're extroverted, that then you'd take a lot of energy with a lot of people. But   see, this is the strange thing I've always thought in that. And I think I've read it somewhere before it's the same. I'm like,   I have tendencies for extroversion,   but I also similarly don't   recharge my batteries when I'm like surrounded by people. Absolutely not. We're the only one that I could that I've seen is, like, a Gary Vaynerchuk or other similar people where they'll talk to freaking a 100 people and then you can see them, like, getting amped up. Yeah. They're getting more. Sometimes that happens to me, but some and but often it doesn't. Like, I'm I'm I'm going to conferences and things like that. And halfway through the day, I'm like, I'm done. Like, I don't wanna talk to anybody else. I just wanna be on my own and do my things. So I don't know. Whenever I, like, see stuff like this and it's about the quad revolution and, you know, that all of those, I'm like,   I don't know if this is mixing up skill sets and tendencies   with what is the conversation between, you know, your natural default settings of some things. Because I feel like some of it is your skill sets or the way that you grow up as opposed to because I would genuinely say I get more of my energy being on my own. I don't get more most of my energy when I'm like with people. Absolutely.  

But   then I'm with with people. I can be loud and I can be rambunctious and I can have lots of energy for that. But   I still prefer training on my own and go on my own for walks and being on my own for a bit of solitude.   I don't know. I don't know how it like maps to that. Yeah. Yeah. And  

[00:13:40] Kyrin Down:

this is the last paragraph of the book. I'll read it out and   honestly,   probably should have been the very first paragraph because it would   completely change almost the whole context of the book. Yeah.   Because of this definitional   complexity, I originally planned to invent my own terms for these constellations of traits. And she's referring to things like,   people who are, you know, conscientious   neuroticism or who were like a skillful hunter, a man in the field.   This is where it was talking about,   Hippocrates and Galen famously proposed that our temperaments,   a. K. A. Destinies, were a function of our bodily fluids with extra blood and yellow bile make us a sanguine   or choleric, I. E. Stable or your neurotic or whatever.  

So that's what she refers to there. I decided against this for cultural reasons. The words introvert extrovert have the advantage of being well known and highly evocative. Every time I added them at a dinner party or someone on a plane, they elicited torrents of conflections and reflections.   Similar reasons I've used this   throughout the throughout this book, I was like,   Okay,   you should have said that right at the start, because then the whole book is almost   I find the words useful sometimes and then other times just like they're a cop out and it's kind of that's kind of how I felt about this book as well which is that's not it that's all I was thinking I'm like it sounds a little bit of a cop out like the   the quiet revolution, you know, we   need to take charge or we need a it's almost like, yeah, let's let's do some genociding over here and get rid of all the extroverts.  

And,   I'm just not sure it's, it's that helpful   in in total.  

[00:15:25] Juan Granados:

I was gonna say, yeah. Did you come away reading that book being like, oh, yeah. This is this is something I'm gonna change in my life. No. Not particularly. No. No. In fact, not at all. There was  

[00:15:35] Kyrin Down:

maybe one or two things where it was   there was one thing which I guess I would say is slightly helpful, which is I've always, and it's related to the fake it till you make it sort of paradox. And she's talking about these pseudo extroverts who,   they'll be   introverted in nature. So like,   but in the pursuit of a higher goal, AKA,   they want to help raise awareness of some   particular   topic of research or something,   they will,   and they're like a university professor, for example,   that will kind of create a persona. And so then kind of like creating a fake version of themselves.   But and they will   say things they don't actually believe or behave in ways that aren't true to their nature, but it's, you   know, a k a faking it.  

But if you frame it in a way where it's this is for like a higher good sort of thing,   then you're not actually faking it. You are this now. And   I think for me, maybe something like that could be useful. There was just a certain phrase or paragraph where she was talking about this. So I was like, okay, yeah, this could be one of those times where it's like this   could help me   overcome the faking it till you make it sort of paradox, which I tend to get stuck in, which is just like,   okay, I'm doing this   because it's bettering myself putting myself more out there. But am I just like,   being   untrue to myself?  



[00:17:08] Juan Granados:

Yeah, like if my nature is to just stay at home and yeah, and like, be a little bit quiet while I'm not doing that. You want to like,  

[00:17:16] Kyrin Down:

find a partner, for example.   Okay, I'll go out and be extroverted, because that's   need to kind of do that. But then if you find them and then   okay, do you then maintain that same level   of extroversion or is this just like a little boost to get you out there to find them and then that they're actually introverted as well and then you can hang out and fucking read books together.   Yeah. One thing,   I wanted to ask you about was the,   what would you call it? Because, you know, there's more   organizational,   like in the workforce in particular   psychology or planning, for example, so open plan offices, why why do we actually have open plan offices? And when you're when you've got many people in a team,   have you read books or things that strategies of of like, here's how you manage a team, here's how you get the most   interaction or creativity between them his motivation, this sort of stuff? Have you read any of those sorts of things or no? Not much on the ladder. But definitely, I know, I know, definitely from like the  

[00:18:20] Juan Granados:

open space offices   of the few like meta slash fate like Facebook. And in the early days, they had like   a particular guy that helped them out so that the way they laid out their offices would encourage   more   meeting of people into spaces. So like, you know, when they would be walking around, they would have more intersex where there'd be more conversations happening based on those conversations,   new things would come up. So I think that's probably the idea of an open spaces. You've got more interactions that are happening between people. Yep. But it'd be,   I'd be interested to know if now that there's probably a higher percentage of people who work from home than do at the offices, whether   that amount   of interactions has decreased,   because I guess you could say it's much easier to just say connect to like a random person if you just chat with them. Yeah. Sure. But you don't, I guess that's that's the whole thing. You don't. You just that's the whole point of like an open office is like it forces a collation of people to just meet that you wouldn't normally interact with. So there's that aspect of it. I don't know if I'd ever really said I'm I'm sure there's like a thousand and one books about it on improving   team culture and dynamic and better interactions and stuff like that. And I'm personally like that. Never needed to. Okay.  



[00:19:34] Kyrin Down:

In the ATO or any of the government offices you've been in, how do they normally set out the actual office itself? Is it do you have you know, I'm guessing not separate rooms unless you're   a big enough person that you're   you've I don't know if it's more of a status thing and everything else.   Because where I worked in the mines, for example, it was open plan. So,   you know, I would walk into a room that was just essentially like one   center desk with a divider.   And then there'd just be like these mini   kind of cubicle type things. So you'd have like a tiny you'd maybe get like   30 centimeters of   private ish space.  

As in I'm sitting here a guy sitting three meters to my left. He can't   see everything. But he can see he can see 90% of what I'm working on. So it's the illusion of having   some sort of space. Yeah, it's more just like a delineator of saying like, hey, don't put your fucking post it notes over this particular way. That's my side.   Yeah.  

[00:20:41] Juan Granados:

Is is that kind of how the the ATO is? Like in, I mean, most government places would be like that still. I reckon most often in terms of like a bit of a separator and whatnot. But you've got   all the other private companies or startups that I've been at, it's like more open space, even like Notifies, just like an open table, and you just work from it in like co working spaces. Yeah. Gotcha. Alright, and yeah, you don't even have  

[00:21:04] Kyrin Down:

a set place. I know. Correct. Yeah, you just kind of like, you go sort of find a space, whatever. Yeah, with your laptop. And yeah, so you don't have any notes or physical stuff. Correct.   Yeah.   And I wonder she was saying claiming the book this was done because there was some guy at some point who   was like, we need more interactions with people. And it was kind of just   he just came up with it and said like, we need more interactions with people.   Open plan offices the way to go. And I wonder if that's actually the case or if it's more just a space thing. And so it's just more efficient to cram a lot of people in  

[00:21:44] Juan Granados:

into these sorts of areas where I think it's more economical. Yeah, I think it's more economical to have an open space even like non allocated location because then you can reduce the amount, like, you can if you have   whatever, a 10010%   of the   employee workforce, you only have to provide, you know, a 100% or 90% of capacity because, you know, roughly you're gonna have that amount of people away. So why be paying all these extra seats for no reason? Yeah. So probably gives you more from like a financial perspective, efficiency perspective is probably a better thing.   I'm sure that an open setup or   having spaces that allow more interaction and connectivity   does help for sure, rather than just having people   allocated into spaces and never like congregating. Cause usually, and I saw this a lot in government as you'd have   pockets of areas working their areas. And so you'd be all that areas, whatever. And yeah, that team works over here. Whereas other places where it's   just come in and sit wherever,   you do, you end up, like, meeting other people from the workforce or other areas. So you do kind of mix and match a little bit better, kind of encourages that that interaction as well. Yeah.  



[00:22:50] Kyrin Down:

I remember   not being super productive.  

[00:22:54] Juan Granados:

We're like an open space. Yeah, I  

[00:22:58] Kyrin Down:

ended up   doing things to make it more private for myself. So I would,   you know, put ear earbuds in so I wouldn't have to hear other people's conversations in the room or tapping and typing and things.   I would,   you know, I could just   literally like turn around or stand up and look over the divider and talk to a guy who I needed to talk to. Most of the time I'd probably just message him on. It wasn't called slack. It was something else but a version of that. And   yes,   that was one of those times reading this where I went, okay, I probably would have been much more productive if I just had  

[00:23:39] Juan Granados:

a certain space for myself where I didn't have all these fucking distractions or cheap. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's so that I mean, that's so dependent on just what what the outcome of the work that seemed to be around. Like, everyone knows that if you've got a developer, you generally, like, have them async from any connectivity because they just can do a work isolated on, on their own path rather than need any other   inputs while they're doing things. So I can give you inputs, go to stuff, give me the outputs that come out the other end. They don't want to connect. They   they rather prefer, like   usually around a developer would work on a developer machine, right, called the dev VM. They were not even on the freaking system that you're working with. So even if you message them, they don't even see it because they're in a separate virtual machine. So you just don't even get a response. Fine. That's how they work. But if your job outcome is to   actually be interacting with people and build the relationships and the network to get things done,   then probably open like open floor planes and stuff like that are fucking fantastic. So for me, a lot of years, like a lot until like my job is more around the right network and conversing with people. So when I used to go in the office,   like I would, yeah, big part of my day was just talking, like talking to everyone up and down the fucking floor, paying a lot of people, saying, and that   would equate to the outcomes that I wanna do anyways throughout the day, which was like, oh, what happened to this whole team person? They need to deliver something for us and dependencies in two weeks. And I don't know where they're going. Well, For me, it was so much easier just to walk over, say, g'day. What's going on? Hey. How's that going? Do you have this issue? How you can talk to this guy? Cool. And you sorted it out much quicker than Mhmm. Let's do a meeting. How can you send me an email about it? What up? You just obviously, you can formalize those things later. So depends on the outcome of the job that you're doing. And if it's,   I'm talking it stuff, but you know, even if it's professional   creative, probably an open   space is way better than non open,   financial stuff. You probably want it to be more like closing. Cause you're just getting, again, you're like input, reviewing some stuff, maybe you're auditing, whatever. You just wanna be like, you need to do a task, complete a task, and then move out. And I think you need to be   conversing for a random person to if I can figure out innovation. So   that's   sometimes when I read stuff like this where it's like, oh, yeah. But, you know, it's time for quiet. And, like, what if your fucking job's not about that? Like, what if you whatever the action it is that you're doing isn't about that? So some of the aspects of,   like, the that's what it's like, the introspective qualities of yes. Be you have to be loud. You can just be your own tone and and project what you mean. And, of course, you can do that in a presentation. You can be loud on or loud as long as you're making yourself heard. But, you know, it shouldn't mean that, oh, you know, you introspective and, you know, everyone will listen and be quiet, but sometimes that's going to happen. So what are you going to do? Right? Like, you've got to have certain skill sets   to then be able to overcome overcome that even if you are an introspective person. Yeah.  



[00:26:26] Kyrin Down:

The main thing I took from this was an introvert says there's probably   a real benefit to being able to   just have a   space for   quietness.   But it's not really that much. I think you're the link to extroverts or introverts. It's just   with less distractions, you can get better work done.   That's pretty much Yeah.   The main sort of thing. And she   she made a couple of claims about,   even households, for example, that,   you know, if there was more introverts in the world, there'd be like more nooks and crannies in them, for example. So, you know, like, you know, in Yeah, you have like your own little thing that you can hide away. Yeah.   And,   yeah, I thought that would be an interesting   concept.  

But   there would probably be enough introverts out there who could make these houses for themselves, but I just don't   really see it. So, you know, there's still you're still going to have the the dining room, for example, where it's everyone congregates together and things like this. So, yeah,   I I thought it was interesting,   that sort of stuff.   And she was also talking about school, for example.   This is probably one where I'd probably   agree with her to a certain extent, which is   the forcing of interaction   of kids when you're,   you know, you're   always got like these open classes.  

They're talking about   how many of the group activities   are,   yeah, we're doing this group activity because it's   it's gonna, like, make them   better or, you know, I don't know exactly what the the reasoning was.   But   it's it's certainly to me, I went, oh, yeah. There's probably just kids who aren't   good at actually being extroverted. And they probably should just be introverted the whole time.  

[00:28:19] Juan Granados:

Do the self study the whole time. And see, but that's what I'm like, I don't know if she talks about this. Right. Get better grades. It's like,   by pulling it apart. Couple of things.   One, like schooling in general, not for not for   exclusive reason, but schooling was created. So that,   turn of the century, you know, having the ability to systemize a way to grow kids up so that they could learn, follow rules, go into a industrial system that you're working at the factory and doing this, whatever. And the jobs that came out of that, it was like, how do we set up a system so that kids can go through it, learn,   repeat, understand,   get the tick of approval that they can follow through rules and, procedures and go and do that. Right. But   I think the,   I've never read it, but I'm, I'm certain that when all of these ideas of schooling or the idea of systemizing processes,   at no point, did they come up and go, oh yeah, this would also help socialization with kids. I'm sure that didn't come up. And if it did, okay, awesome. They thought about it. But   I think about it now, one of the, like the key things from when a kid goes from like real, real young to into schooling is you want to maximize their socialization skills maximize as much as possible how to get away   be in amongst society and humanity   because it's going to be needed basically for every single person unless you become a monk and live on your own. Right? Socialization   is super needed.  



[00:29:41] Kyrin Down:

This is where I should argue against you and say  

[00:29:45] Juan Granados:

the what level is needed and how it comes about. Yeah, this is and so like the bit I was gonna say, well, I don't think that being an introvert or an extrovert   actually   is matters   in the concept of the skillset of socialization.   That's like, that's separate socialization and being able to be sociable with a group of people, whatever they are, is a skillset. It's a practice is a continuous action.   If you're an introvert or an extrovert, actually, is independent. I mean, it matters nothing because the way that you might, as an extrovert,   socialize   is different to how an introvert might socialize.  

But bet you ask, you need to socialize. Otherwise, you're gonna be the fucking motherfucker sitting on the corner on their own. We don't want to interact or who, as they get older, don't know how to socialize, don't know faux pas, don't know how the common, you know, individuals of their age and of the group actually interact. And that's the, shun them away. They don't interact with society. It's when, you know, people go like, oh, he's a bit he's a bit of a weirdo.   I think the underlying concept of a weirdo is the person doesn't know how to socialize in the dynamics that exist. If you got dropped into, again, we grew up in Australia. If we got dropped into New York or we got dropped into,   somewhere else in the world, but you ask, you can seem a bit of a weirdo because you don't know how to socialize in the area and the lingo and the styles.  

That in itself is an important concept and it's independent of an introvert or an extrovert. If you get dropped into the Bronx, right, and if you're a 17 year old or like my sister, she wanted to study it in Texas when she was in her year 11. Right?   I bet you that the differentiate differentiation was not that she was introverted, extroverted. There would have been   introverts who were more socialized in the area that they lived in. And so then would have been seen as more commonplace in the group and accepted than an external person who could have been   extroverted as you like, but you would still be seen as weird if your social structures understanding   is not in tune with whatever that that piece. Maybe it's easier if you're extroverted because you just, like, lean into it and don't care about it. And eventually, you learn.  

But make the mistakes you got to like socialize. And I think it's independent of introversion, extroversion, whatever.  

[00:31:53] Kyrin Down:

Yeah, it's more   how that that socialization is structured, I guess. So   she was arguing that   more of it is these group settings,   talking in front of a class   ideals,   you know, presenting things, you've got a drama or something, you have to do it in front of the whole class.   Whereas   Yeah, introverts perhaps   excel more one on one. I know I certainly do where it's a much more comfortable one on one versus   in a group of like,   even three people like   this is probably what you'd you could you'd say I   still struggle where it's I'm talking with a friend in the gym and then like another person who he knows joins and I don't know if man that   is always a bit of a struggle for me is like oh, do I introduce myself to them? Like, how are they just gonna talk for, like, five seconds and then head off? You know, all those sorts of ones,   those dynamics get   more  

[00:32:52] Juan Granados:

more difficult. They do. They do. But but I think see, but in the different I say is that exact example of, like, okay, you're talking to someone and then a third person joins in. If you just We need to redesign the entire world. If you're if you're in a can never happen. If you're in a social structure, let's just say it exists in, like, another place in the world where   the usual thing to do when that happens as that structure of society exists is, like, oh, normal thing is you have to be like, oh, hey. My name is hey. I'm I know this guy from here. And then interact. And if you don't do that, you're seen as, like, an absolute weirdo.   If you're an introvert or an extrovert, but you come from a societal structure where you don't be able to do that, you can just kind of stand there and kind of hang out and then wait for them to leave. You'll be seen as a weirdo. No matter what the fuck you are introvert, extrovert. It doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter that you,   put you out there or not out there. It's like, no. But it's the social I could say it's the skill set. It's the understanding of that. So that's sometimes where I see the struggle. I don't know I don't know if she talked about it in that book about that, but it's like, when they when they go, oh, yeah. But it's because he's introverted or next, I'll be like, nah. That's bullshit. That's like actual bullshit. I just purely   don't know that doesn't have skill set of of socialization. So, again, it's like my daughter growing up. Right? And if   for whatever she was asking,   she's   so she was introverted. And so she said, oh, I'm a bit quiet.  

And I just then I talked to me, and there's this problems.   I would try to break it down more into the   what are the skill sets and the expectations of the society and what you can do as opposed to,   oh, yeah. But it's because you introverted till you have to lean into your quietness. Like, that's not helpful. That's not helpful at all. Right? Is it is it helpful at all if someone's gonna go if you have to go tell, like, oh, you gotta present to a 100 people right now. Got to present and maybe, you know, the general consensus, maybe an introvert or let's not even say pretend, present to a 100 people. Let's say there's a group of a 100 people in the fucking room and you've got to be loud and make them,   like, you gotta be in charge and get them to move to a particular area, all of them, and dominate the scene.  

You could say that an introvert might have in a harder time than an extrovert. Right? That that might be like the natural tendencies. I'd I'd say that. Yeah. And I agree with that. Like, there are natural tendencies,   But the differentiation is if you have the skills to do that, then it doesn't matter. Like, it does not matter that you introvert or extrovert. Yes. You might   feel,   like a harder thing to do as an introvert to an extrovert to do that, to be loud,   potentially. But if you have the skill set, then you can do it. Like the bridge to doing it is a skill set, not because you're introverted, you have to bridge a gap. Now that's shit because you you could be extroverted and still don't know how to bridge that gap and or do it either. So it's like Probably the meta thing should argue is that   the Susan sounds like she's introverted. Oh, yeah. Susan's introverted. 100%. Susie introvert. The whole the whole I'll debate you the whole  

[00:35:36] Kyrin Down:

the whole point.   Many of the stories in the book are of instances of her introversion.   Yeah.   The yeah, I guess it would be the meta thing. It's like, well, why do you not why do you have to go to,   present in in front of a big group?   I think a lot of this was about kind of acceptance as well. It's like, hey, you're uncomfortable   presenting in front of a group. You're not weird. Like, you are like, there's a Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Biological. The reason why that. Yeah. For sure. Some are not biological.   I guess should yeah. Probably.  

Yeah, probably you'd she would argue that it's mostly biological   I inbuilt   and that   the changes you can make,   you can make them but they're   not likely to be like long lasting   forever sort of   ones. Yeah, she mentioned Tony Tony Robinson as well a couple times in there.  

[00:36:32] Juan Granados:

The extrovert ideal. He's very extrovert. Instagram  

[00:36:37] Kyrin Down:

Lounge. Let's do that.  

[00:36:39] Juan Granados:

Maybe talk a little bit about this book before the end. The other one. Alright. So boostgram lens. Let me just see if we've got any boosts that have come through. I don't know if we did this one. I'm not not not sure. I will double check.  

[00:36:50] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. For those who wonder   is where we   give thanks to those who are supporting the   podcast   via boosting in in a modern podcasting app on like fountain,   true fans, podcast guru, customatic, things like that, Podverse.   And,   if you want to find out how to do this, me and mortalspodcasts.com/support.  

[00:37:12] Juan Granados:

Right. Got a.   Yes, we do have a new one because it came through on Monday to from Peter.   So there's two that I'll read out.   Both are a row of docks 2,222   sets sent using fountain. Like, quack, quack, double quack, quack. Thank you very much, Peter. And this is in relation to our last   episode.   In hindsight, first one, in hindsight,   many decisions look foolish,   but you can't deny that at the time, something in your mind told your foot to press the accelerator   and to pause the other vehicle. At the time, your brain thought it was an acceptable impulse for the given circumstance, even if you gave it no deeper contemplation.   The takeaway is by doing that action, you have shaped yourself into a better driver, so don't regret it. In fact, take a minute to thank past reckless driving car for the formative  

[00:37:56] Kyrin Down:

experience. Thank you, Karen.  

[00:37:59] Juan Granados:

That no. That is correct. And I think we we talked about it in the app. So it's like, you can't really regret it somewhat because it is what led you to today.   I'm sorry. There are things you could regret for sure looking in hindsight, but, again, it made you a part of who you are today, and you would be a very different human had you not done those things. Almost a Buddhist context of yeah.   There is only the present moment. Correct. It's hopeless in the past or the future. Correct. It does not exist unlike the present. Now, the second one that Peter did send here is pain is information. Pain is the most important of information for living organisms, pain. And they from your environment, I'd actually say it's suffering   even more than pain. It's a slight difference. Physical pain in your body's way of tell it. Physical pain is your body's way of telling you that you need to move or change your actions. Absolutely.  

Yeah. Put your hands on the stovetop.   Mental pain is your brain's way of telling you that you need to move or change your actions.   Another great episode. So thank you very much there, Peter, for those two Yeah. Loosely. Much appreciated. Yeah. I'd probably say, pain,   for sure. I don't yeah. I'm not like saying no. It's a pain.   Barak and suffering would be a slightly even better,   addition because there are some things in suffering that you don't move away from and you actually have to   divert your actions or take different actions even through particular things. But I guess you could say that about pain like you continue through pain with the full knowledge of the pain. I like pain more because it doesn't have the weight of that suffering does of it. I as in  

[00:39:27] Kyrin Down:

pain is usually   more understandable   for other people. So yeah, you know, if you're if you're grieving over   a loved one from   thirty years ago who passed away,   There's people who still have that. And   that's kind of less understandable in a way. Whereas if it's just pain,   I   got something in your foot.   Whatever.  

[00:39:52] Juan Granados:

That yeah, that's better to connect to I guess. Yeah.  

[00:39:56] Kyrin Down:

That that equates more to what he's he's kind of saying and you know, like emotional pain of   like, oh, yeah, getting a rejection or something that  

[00:40:05] Juan Granados:

that that hit. Yeah. Like saying the steam of it. The pain of it. Yeah. Like, it was more. Yeah. Cool. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Much, much appreciated. The  

[00:40:15] Kyrin Down:

only other   question I wanted to ask about the the quiet book was   how do you think you'd bear in   a Asian country where   it is more of an introvert ideal?   The, you know, the quiet,  

[00:40:31] Juan Granados:

you can kind of get rewarded more for being a quiet person. I was rewarded plenty for being introverted in Asian countries. Yeah, yep. I was in Malaysia for a week for training for work training back in the day.   And being an extra van being super loud and probably part of noxious part fucking life of the party was   loved in every fucking format. So that was fantastic.   In Taiwan, same thing when I was just really chatty and talking to a lot of people while I was there with family, I've been in Asia quite a few times and being extroverted felt like it was very helpful. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. There you go. All right. Suck it, Susan. Suck   it. Suck it. What do you know about this guy? You you said you I've I've heard him. I've heard him on Tim Ferris. Paul MacKinnon. I couldn't tell you. I know that he talked about something to do with charisma.  

But this would have been   a long time ago that he was on Tim Ferriss podcast. So he's a hypnotist, I believe, is his his main thing.  

[00:41:26] Kyrin Down:

His main profession.   And   he   very   he alludes to hypnotism in here, but it's not   Not not strong fluid. He's not talking about hypnotism. He's talking about influence and charisma. Mhmm. And I got stuck.   I kind of missed the influence port partial   port portion portion   part of this. Yep. And was reading a bunch of this being like, what the fuck is he talking about? There's nothing about charisma here. He's just talking about,   like, other random stuff. And then reading the title again, it's like, oh, okay, yeah, influence. And so,   essentially,   it's a re,   rehab or   a recap of   Robert Cialdini's   book called Influence   Psychology Psychology   of Persuasion,   which   I read quite a quite a while ago, and   that did have a   impact on me, I found it very   useful.  

This was when I was learning about game at the same time. And so   game itself is kind of   very much related to this kind of psychology   type of type of aspect as well.   I can't say that I really   grabbed that much from this book.   Other than he was he had some funny stuff like this in here of doing power poses   of   I've heard about the power play so much lifting lifting your hands up hands on the hips.  

[00:42:53] Juan Granados:

Man, who the fuck does the arms up? Like a star in the middle of what? What? Like, where would you be doing that in front of a meeting or something? Show it to the camera as well. So, looking. Oh, no. Oh, Juan lost the page. He lost the page.  

[00:43:07] Kyrin Down:

Oh, I'm Shouldn't be too hard to find. The   yeah. It it look. I'm I'm sure if you'd never heard of this stuff before, it would be   useful.   But the   overall thing that I got from this is, like, charisma  

[00:43:25] Juan Granados:

is  

[00:43:30] Kyrin Down:

I don't know. But do you do you feel you could become as charismatic?   Do you feel you could would people describe you as charismatic? Like this   charismatic guy. No.   Which I'll find it instantly  

[00:43:45] Juan Granados:

looking. Yeah. For what the hell is right at the front. Good grief.   There you go. There you go. There's power plays power poses. Do you do any of those power plays by the way?  

[00:43:55] Kyrin Down:

I have noticed I've been doing the Wonder Woman hands on the hips thing at the gym a lot. Yeah, you don't do the I don't do the winner. Arms up high like a star.   The boss hands behind head head elbows wide,   position   of of leaning back.  

[00:44:12] Juan Granados:

I don't look, I'm telling you, I don't do pose two the winner on top of the side, but I do the hands on the hips and the hands behind head, elbows wide. We must be charismatic. Very often, very often.   Like I'll do it in meetings. I do it in meetings quite a bit, actually just like by default. I just feel like I do this like quite often. It's just like the normal positioning long term. One thing I have started to do is at the gym, I used to do a set and then I kind of sit on the box. I've just got this box  

[00:44:41] Kyrin Down:

raised up so I'm not having to sit on the ground all the time. So I'm in the middle of floor handstanding.   I I just have to get on the floor, get back up again if I wanted to rest every time. So I've got a, you know, 40 inches box that I sit on. And I've noticed I just like kind of hunch over a lot of times because I'd be tired.   One thing I've started to do now is just lean back a little bit, maybe steeple the fingers.   Another power pose here.  

[00:45:05] Juan Granados:

Steepling. I'll tell you what, all of this, all of this stuff, the all of this position, shut the fuck up, all of it's wrong. All of it's stupid.   Whenever, like, someone says, like, oh, you know, you wanna feel powerful or whatnot and put your hands   shut the fuck up. It's all wrong. Why? Why is it wrong? That'll be wrong. It's because it's the underlying   feeling that actually then denotes that that actually changes it completely. So I've seen this. I've I've I've read this like so many times. I've seen do the like thing like this. Okay. You know what it looks like when they're like, you don't mean it and don't have it? They look like the dumbest shit ever has stepped in. You can tell. You can smell it. You can be like, what are you doing? And they will be like, oh, I'm a bit shy about it. I think it's the the underlying. I don't think it's so much the position.   Now you can read it. They're like, yes. It does,  

[00:45:53] Kyrin Down:

that's how   Smiling makes you happier even if you're not happy. So smile to make yourself happy. Correct. Like, there's there's things like Until you make it, people. But I think it's more it's the again, cut it down. There's there's underlying  

[00:46:04] Juan Granados:

reason behind that in that I'll tell you. When I do a   standing Superman That's how it works. Pose. And when I'm walking around the gym when I do it, because often when I do that, I'm not doing it. Not doing it because I'm like, I wanna   look like I'm confident and I'm proud and whatever. Sure. No. It's just the natural feeling because, you know, the good vibes are flowing. I've got blood flowing. I'm tired. I'm amped up for the training, and that's just the default way the positioning of the body goes for me. Right? And I think it's more there is that feeling, whatever the feeling is of putting yourself in a, you know,   good mood, good feeling, good vibe, whatever it is, that is probably pretty unique to each individual.  

I think if you were in that position, whatever that position looks like, and it might look a bit different for everyone else, but it's the energy that would emanate from a human from that. That's the thing that would go, oh, like this person's, like, locked in,   fully assured herself. I've seen this. I'm telling you, I've seen this. I reckon at some point, I'm gonna be validated in some scientific study in the future. But if you want the woman pose and you think, if I just do this pose and I hold it, and I've I've heard of this being like, you hold it hold it for ten, twenty seconds, and you will be seen. Shut the fuck up. I swear to God. I've seen this firsthand multiple times. It does not work. Or you can tell that they're not in that. And you it it almost makes them feel worse in a way now. Is it worse than than, like,   slumping in the corner and, like, not interacting? Not at all. I'll tell you, like, one of the techniques, if you will, of a team member. I've had them plenty of times, like, really quiet. They don't wanna talk. They do well on their own. In fact, not that do well on this shit. They're a terrible team member. They won't even work well.  

The it would not improve them if I told them, stand like Wonder Woman, like Superman, even if they read it and they did it. Yeah. I'm telling you, I I'd still be able to be like, it is helping nothing. You know what does help them? If you get them into like a space where they feel a little bit more confident and confidence doesn't really come from that position and come from the position almost on the in the mental aspect of, hey, if you're   this particular person was a bit of a runner. Right? If I could get him engaged into something adjacent to where he does feel a bit of confidence and then move into that conversation of work, let's just say then it works out better. So, you know, if for whatever reason the position does get you into that state, okay fine, whatever. I'm telling you, if it's if you think it's just a position, I've got some news for you. I've got some news for you. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Paul McKenna. Nice. Nice. Fucking in every other motherfucker on this. I wasn't expecting that level of Yes. Yes. Of I've seen this now. I've seen this so many times.  

[00:48:33] Kyrin Down:

Of feeling from.   Unbelievable. Wow. Okay.   You're not going to like this this one here because he's talking. This is one going on a rant. He's talking about a haven haven away the blocks. So this is,   this havening here.  

[00:48:50] Juan Granados:

Haven is in like. H. A. H. A. V. E. M. And yeah,  

[00:48:54] Kyrin Down:

man, I've read this, but I don't even remember reading this, but he's talking about like, think of a time when you wanted to be powerful or successful but was stopped by an inner block of feeling. There. Think of that one. Okay. Now cross your arms as though you are hugging yourself. So your right arm is right hand is resting on top of your left upper arm. I think just like that and your left hand is on top of your Yeah. So just just like yeah,   he's one's cold at the moment cold gently but firmly stroke your hands down your upper arms. When you reach your elbows, lift your hands up and stroke down again from the top of your arm. So you're you're doing   doing brushing off the cobwebs on your on your shoulders.  

Continue this motion for the duration of this exercise. So you're gonna be doing it around. Now imagine walking down a flight of stairs and your mind count the stairs from one to 10 all the time continuing to stroke your upper arms gently.   When you reach the bottom of the stairs, continue the stroking and right, do you think this will help your your your work colleagues?   And continue to remember that time and say to yourself, I am free to be powerful and successful.   Repeat the statement every ten seconds over and over again for one minute while continuing the moat. The movement. When you've finished check that your base feeling   has changed.  

Oh, one's not happy. One's not happy. Now there's another. Where's. Man, there better be some fucking scientific citations on this bullshit. There better be some citations on it. There's got to be some reason. I'll see at the end if there's no there's no   Fuck you. Oh man. But look there's there are some useful stuff in this book in terms of just general.  

[00:50:36] Juan Granados:

The thing about this sale I think I think the thing about this is like that probably does work for a good chunk of people. Right? And and and where it does work, like, if if you were to read that and the people that need   to do that to get a betterment are probably in a position that might not be like the depths of it, but it might just be in a position of they're not confident. They're not assured of themselves. Maybe they didn't reach out or whatever. And so you do again, could be fucking strike a penis, whatever. It's something   do something   that makes you mentally think that you are putting yourself into a better position. It is. It's the affirmations. It's the talking. It's the,   slap yourself in the face, you know, bang like a gorilla, whatever. Listen to music, which is maybe more a normal statement. There is   an action that you can do that you can put in your mind that, hey. When I do this, I'm going to be a little bit more amped up.  

To someone else that might sound like crazy talk. For us, if we're doing a podcast, if I put fucking some good music zoo and played it at a 100% volume and it was fucking pumping, you better believe we're probably gonna be in a little bit better mood for a certain amount of time when you begin.   If you have an expectation of the world right now where it's like, whatever. It's your and down the dumps because such and such didn't happen or your light didn't turn on or something. How about you go to Antarctica for thirty days? Live there barely on anything else. You'll come home. And guess what? For about thirty days, you will see everything is fucking fantastic because your baseline's been lowered.   This is just all about baseline expectations, confidence. And again, if you think that doing something like that and you read it and that's put you into a better place,   then it probably will. But that's just you check shifting your perspective on expectation and going, well, now I'm doing this. I'll expect myself to be at a more prepared level. And then you do. Yeah.  



[00:52:19] Kyrin Down:

The thing with these two books, and I've categorized the commonality between them as the kind of belief system behind it. So he's a hypnotist. So   his whole shtick is to   I don't know if he's more of a performative one or therapeutic   one, I'd say he's more on the therapeutical, I he's not doing hypnotist shows, although maybe he he hasn't   does do that.   Where it's like, you know, get people from the audience to come up on the stage, you can and hypnotize them, and then they can squawk like a chicken and all this random shit.   And,   I remember my dad went to a show once and he said he was very surprised that   it worked in a way, but that also the filtering   process was   people would go up to the stage and he would instantly   say yes or no to them. And   my dad's reasoning was, oh,   he had some sort of way of kind of being able to tell people either they were plants in the audience,   which is a possibility,   or there was an actual   way that he had of kind of sorting out people relatively quickly to see if they're the type that believe.  



[00:53:29] Juan Granados:

Yeah. And I reckon you could I reckon you could pick that up really quick, especially if he does this like professionally done a long time, you'd be able to read people in relation to that   availability of it really quick. Yeah, I reckon. And that's  

[00:53:40] Kyrin Down:

kind of how these things work. I think a lot of it is.   Yeah. You know, a lot of these exercises are I think of a time you felt confident, energetic. Remember that occasion what you felt or heard saw feel make the colors brighter, the picture sharper, the sounds clearer, all these sorts of visualization   types of things where   yeah, you're you're trying to believe yourself into   feeling better about a certain   action or something and then   using that belief or motivation to overcome  

[00:54:11] Juan Granados:

roadblocks. So I'll give you I'll give you the biggest tip here.   One McKenna,   one for for actually confidence. There's, like, I I for sure would give this for my daughters and and everything else, but it's like   which again goes back to, I think you have to Yeah. That doesn't need more confidence. I think you have to put the energy to becoming, like, really good at particular something. And why is that? So because my feedback would be especially if you're an introvert or if it's something that you can't do, I kind of go just recall something that you're   you're going to be good at or sort of good at what I'm like, what's the best thing to do? Let's just say the car is handstands. Right? And one hand handstands. It's like, okay. Now recall back five c in this way, like, note taking and journaling really works out well. Be like, cool. Go and reflect back to when you were first beginning handstands or muscle ups or whatever. Reflect back on it and review. What were you doing? What was the feelings and everything else? And then recognize,   holy shit, you're actually here and it took this effort to get to this. And it's like,   now apply that into whatever other aspect. Do you really believe you can go and speak to a thousand people and be confident   without the action and the effort and the trialing? And if you were to try a one on and send   five years ago,   sure, you probably could have tried to do something, but it wouldn't have been good. It wouldn't have been, you know, it would have been a little bit ugly. You might not have done it. You might have been just, what makes you what gives you the expectation that this thing that you're doing that you've never tried before? And again, it's a skill set and it's a repetition, but you have a number for. Why would you expect all of a sudden that you're gonna do it unless you've got a natural affinity to it? And, yes, that's different. There's gonna be natural affinities to an extrovert, to an introvert, and there are aspects where quietness is better and when loudness is better, but   everything is different. And if you do wanna achieve it, I don't think it's useful to say stroke your arms and fucking think this. It's good. It's like,   no. Look at the practicalities of when something became good at something. It's usually the the reps and the skill set and the improvement and just getting a bit more focused on that.  

Even just thinking it that way, I think that's the trigger of the differentiation of like, oh, yeah. I'm not unique. This happens all the time. It's happened with me. It happens with everyone else. The plan to do that is to do this is this. Go to, you know, approaching   females and talking to them. Again, if you're generally extroverted, yes. Do you have a maybe natural tendency to be better at it? Sure. If you introverted, do you have some challenges? Sure. But is it going to be improved if you if you   21 year old Karen hasn't slept with anyone? If if Paul McKenna said, you know what? Superwoman stands   when you're talking to them. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have the confidence to do it. Shut up. Pretend that Wonder Woman. Anything. What will help if you do   29 approaches, 29 fail. And on the thirtieth, you go, you know what? I both don't care. And I've done this enough now that I feel like I can have the conversation that I think is a more powerful thing. I also  

[00:56:53] Kyrin Down:

being able to do stuff without having the belief is   I feel pretty important. I never   really believed I could do a muscle up, for example.   So when you start, you know, I couldn't I couldn't remember going to the gym for the first time and I couldn't even do a pull up.   So the   how could I get to a muscle up? That's impossible. I don't even do a pull up. That's yeah. Yeah. So far away. Yeah.   Yet still doing things.   And this is where it's like, okay, but do you believe you can do,   you know,   an assisted pull up?   Maybe. Alright, well, I'll try it out on the machine. Oh, shit. I can do it like that. And this is like the the whole  

[00:57:33] Juan Granados:

theory, not theory, but the whole reason to set like mini goals. Yeah. Well, that's it's off. Exactly. Even if you don't believe you can Yeah. Well, this is this was the the piece that I put together around generated those trophies is like the faster you can get out of the mindset of, oh, well, I'm gonna achieve this trophy. Your next trophy is like, no.   Aim for the generator. It's like, yep. Think about the trophy that you want to have things that you want to achieve and then just break down into what generated. What are the all the actions and then hyper focus on that because who cares that the trophy might be the second random one. You want to be the,   with our one of the charismatic as George Clooney? It's charismatic George Clooney. And you might break that down into, like, okay, well, here are seven practices I need to do on the daily and two key things I need to do when blah blah blah blah blah. And then you just go, that's a hyperfocus because if you do that, it'll be enough time with enough reps, you will get better. And it's the the outcome that you originally fought to achieve, which is being as charismatic as George Clooney. Let me tell you, when you if you first think that you actually don't want to be charismatic to just cleaning, you want that for a reason.  

Like, that's that's the that's the real thing. You want that for another reason. And now sometimes a reason, like Yeah. You wanna achieve a one hand one handed handstand. Right? And   even then even then, the reason you're doing that, same as the reason that I train, is actually because we just wanna be, like, we wanna see how good we can be at this particular thing that we enjoy doing. That's actually the reason. So when you do the generators and the actions, you will become as good as you can doing these various things,  

[00:59:00] Kyrin Down:

and then it's kind of independent of the trophy gets achieved in the end. Yep. Yep. For sure. I just realized I had my leg on this chair and it was actually hitting the mic stand. So potentially  

[00:59:10] Juan Granados:

Hopefully no one heard anything.  

[00:59:12] Kyrin Down:

Say again. Potentially a lot of   disturbance noises there. So if so, apologies. That was that was my fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The,  

[00:59:20] Juan Granados:

yeah. I mean, 100%, like, why do you wanna be as charismatic as as George Clooney? But But it's but it's but it's but it's the it's an okay it's a good place to begin with, and this is the the whole thing I say to people. I thought that that's why I kind of get annoyed when I see stuff like this where it's like, do this, folks, so you can be confident. It's like, you're missing you're actually missing the underlying   realities of there's a re so you put a goal that you will later realize was superficial, but you have to have the goal to break it down, to do the right generators, to get you to the outcome, to achieve the underlying thing. Sure. That kind of misses the point of, like, oh, you wanna be confident staying like this. It's like, you missed it, man. You missed it. That's that's not that's actually not the reason probably why you want to be confident, nor have I seen this personally really be achieved. If you're listening out there and you there might be one out of a 100 who do do that post, and it does work out for them. And that's what their confidence.   Kudos. Wonderful.  

But I've barely seen that ever be the case,   to demonstrate that we've seen that we've seen the guy, you know, using the guy fucking lean all the way back with breaking his back. Right?   He might have thought he was confident and good.   I'll I'm sure everyone else who he was approaching of the opposite sex was like, what is going on here? It's not the outcome that he was probably wanting to achieve. Right? And then the maybe the confidence, the uniqueness   could have been achieved in another way. Had that been maybe just like a more underlying goal of just yeah. I wanna be more attractive and unique. And you could see that in very little ways and going parallel to the floor.  

[01:00:51] Kyrin Down:

So I should get back into the the game scene, man. Those guys are fucking. I would be pretty funny. That would be some pretty funny conversations. So fucking random, man. I'd completely forgotten about that guy. Yeah. Jesus.   That was something to behold, man. For those who don't know, it was I'm going to say, like, in the 100 episodes, 100. We're actually four ninety nine right now. Next one's five. Wow. Should we do it like a recap of? I think so. Yeah. We can do a recap of something. Yep. I think that'll be good. But yeah. We went over 1,250  

[01:01:20] Juan Granados:

episodes all up as well. There you go. That's everything. So, I think Chris Chris Williamson, you think you're good at thousand? Yeah. 200 plus. Joe Rogan, not even halfway.   Yeah. Yeah. No. He's still pumping out many of He's on, like Yeah. A week. 2,400 or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like,  

[01:01:36] Kyrin Down:

if anyone doing three plus a week is gonna beat us. Yeah.  

[01:01:40] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Our our time of doing three plus a week is, well, I mean, well, no. We're always doing three three three a week because Neil was a motional book review. This one's   I take it back. I take it back. We're still doing stuff. If you're doing book reviews right now, we'd actually we'd be Yeah. For four an average a week, probably. So alright. We'll leave it in me and more. Let's once again, you can support us in all the various well, meandmortals.com   forward /support. You can comment. You can go in the Discord. You can ask the questions. You can wire up your arms like a like a winner, and do it on my face. I'm gonna literally knock you out if you're not actually confident. So, just be warned.   But now, me and mortals, I hope you're well wherever you're on the world one. Out. Go right out. Good.