Mere Mortals

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 In this episode, Nic Blair shares his experiences balancing fatherhood, entrepreneurship, and self-care. He discusses the challenges of maintaining quality time with family while scaling Midnight Health, the importance of goal-setting, and his approach to collecting and learning from various life pursuits. The episode also dives into the growth and challenges faced by Midnight Health, as well as Nic's views on success, motivation, and generational skills.

(00:00) - Introduction to the Episode
(00:39) - Nic's Balance Between Fatherhood & Entrepreneurship
(02:13) - Quality Over Quantity in Family Time
(04:15) - Managing Burnout and Productivity as a Founder
(05:48) - The Power of Time Management & Structure
(07:22) - Nic’s Goal-Driven Personality
(10:04) - Approaching Long-Term Goals Flexibly
(13:39) - Aligning Expectations with Personal Hobbies
(17:10) - The Growth and Expansion of Midnight Health
(20:13) - New Ventures into Corporate Health
(22:06) - Challenges of Disruption in the Health Industry
(24:49) - Regulatory Hurdles & Advocacy in Digital Health
(26:10) - Transitioning Roles from Founder to Advocate
(29:05) - Building the Right Team & Empowering Autonomy
(31:23) - Learning from Industry Leaders & Building Connections
(32:54) - Insights into Success and Overcoming Challenges
(35:24) - Nic’s Collection of Random Memorabilia
(36:55) - Car Enthusiast Life: Driving, Collecting, and Racing
(41:08) - Thoughts on Generational Wealth & Skills
(44:45) - Final Thoughts: Motivation, Happiness, and Leaving a Legacy

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Connect with Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcast/
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[00:00:01] Unknown:

That's an interesting question. I probably haven't thought about it too much. I'd say that I'm also like a very focused and high energy type of person. If you ask my wife, she would definitely say that. We're on we're on, different channels that we wake up first thing in the morning.   I used to, and I think a lot of early stage entrepreneurs   get distracted by all the shiny things. Mhmm. Yeah. You and it when I first started my entrepreneurial journey in 2008, I would have my phone with, you know, all my list of hundreds of ideas that probably a lot of entrepreneurs have done at one point in their life. Yep. And what I've realized is that  

[00:00:40] Unknown:

Nick, welcome back to the Immortals podcast. We've had you on now. This is the 3rd time. Right? 2020,   2022, now 2024. So it's a good sort of cadence. So welcome back.   There's lots of things that we can talk about.   We've going back, I won't cover most of the bases, which is Search Factory, all the previous businesses that you sort of started up and didn't succeed, the going back to Flight Centre, I believe, going back to marketing and all the way now with Midnight Health. We'll get into that. But if you wanna go check that out in more lights, go back to the previous podcast.   What I wanted to check with you is and and begin here. You are like me now, a a dad. Right? You're a father. Is it 1 or 2? Just 1. Just the 1. Yeah. So with being a dad, how do you balance   being   a businessman, being busy building and looking after a pretty substantial company with being dad? How does that look like from a balance in your life?  



[00:01:29] Unknown:

It's certainly challenging and I think the other   two variables that you need to layer on top of that is also being a husband   and then finding time for yourself   because they're obviously other 2   important components to your life, I think, alongside business. So then when you throw a child into the mix of that, you know, maybe you've got the other 2 sorted alongside business, and then you throw a child into the mix. It adds a whole another variable. Right? Mhmm. And so   I I certainly find it challenging. I think the the thing that's most important for me is, like, the quality of time you spend with them as opposed to the quantity of time that you spend with them.   I read   a piece from somebody very early in my journey as a father, that was talking about,   you know, ensuring that you are spending engaged time with your children in the time that you're with them. So, you know, don't if you've got a limited time frame with the in an evening or, you know, on a weekend that you're spending with your child, make sure you're engaged in them in that moment as opposed to sitting there on your phone and, you know, ignoring them more. You know, just being present,   but not being mentally present. Mhmm. So for me, that's, like, the thing that I have kinda, like, tried to take into,   my life as a father and making sure that I'm sort of allocating enough time to my daughter to read with her, you know, every night   and,   shower or bath or, you know, if it hasn't been done before I get home. And, you know, try to allocate time on the weekends to make sure I take her out to do something fun. So, you know, for me, it's about trying to, yeah, spend as much quality time with them as you can and create those memories and, you know, ensure that she doesn't think of me as a father that is  

[00:02:58] Unknown:

absent through her childhood. Yeah. It's the so, I mean, the the quality aspect, and I'll I'll ask you this because   I I would, at first glance, would think for yourself quality at a from a business lens, as in the quality amount of time that you have to spend with how many hours you could actually spend is probably a real easy thing for you now with that many years on the track run.   With yourself in   fatherhood space, how's it felt like for yourself you've had to   retrospect on sometimes the failures or look at the learnings and go, oh, actually this is a little bit different in terms of what it means to be spending quality here and actually pull yourself away  

[00:03:36] Unknown:

from business or other things around, like, looking after yourself, whatever that may look like? Yeah. I think well, I think you find that balance over time, for sure. I think especially when I started my first businesses,   you know, you almost   you feel that a 120% of your time is, like, focused on that start up and you're working on it and your quality time is, like, almost all put into that. And whatever's left at the end, you know, is what you give to yourself or your partner or, whatever is realized over   the years that   the thing that needs to get done,   in your inbox can be done tomorrow most of the time. You know, how do I actually   plan my time so that I can do this,   for a long period of time and not get burnt out? You know, a lot of founders get burnt out,   regardless of, you know, whether they're balancing a child or a, you know, a wife or a personal life outside of the business. A lot of founders will go super hard for a certain period of time, and then they get to the point where they're burnt out and they're actually less productive. And the quality of their own output has actually diminished over time. And they think that, and some people when they start their journey, they think that hours put into something,   results in success or quality because it's, you know, it's not always the case. And I mean, I say that with a view that I probably work a lot more than the average person. Sure. But at the same time, it's still balancing going, well, you know, weekends are to myself now. A public holiday, I will take off. It's like when I get home at nights, you know, I'll try and make sure I spend time with the family and my daughter,   and so, and spend a little time working outside of those periods that I have to. And so I think that it's important just going, you know, how do you compartmentalize   your time so that you inject, you know, the kind of make   the highest quality decisions or effort into what you're working on, whether it's in a business through these hours, whether it's being a dad through these hours, or spending time, yeah, with your friends on the weekends. Like, how do you make sure you split all of that up so that you get the most out of all of those individual things? Yeah. And so I and one thing I was speaking to someone about recently is that,   like, I probably live a very organised life, you know, as in I live in my calendar. I don't know. I'm like, well, cool. Yeah. Because of having a child, it's like I used to say go to jujitsu after work sometimes, or, well, now the only time I can do that is in the morning. So I get up at 4:30 and go train, you know, first thing in the morning, and then I'm in the office by 7, and then work through that so then I can have that time available to me at night. And then when it gets to the weekends, by the time I get to probably Wednesday or Thursday, I'm like, what am I doing this weekend? And I'm almost, like,  

[00:05:54] Unknown:

filling out my calendar for Saturday, Sunday. So it's like I'm always trying to organize structure and maximize the amount of time that I have available to get the most out of it. And, look, an allocated life, in some ways, some people go, well, you know, where's the flexibility? Where's the serendipity? Where's all the other things? But at the same time, with everything that you're listing out there,   if you don't do that, one of those is gonna get missed. And, yeah, from what you're telling me there, it's, well, when you start dropping either the jujitsu or the spending time with the family or spending time with your wife in a 1 on 1 situation or the end of the business, once something's tough to go, it's obvious, and you can see the the problems that then arise from that. If it's not allocated, you're gonna miss it. In that description, again, I can transpose what I think I view as who is Nick Blair.   But to you,   who who how do we describe who Nick Blair is? I guess to individuals who probably don't know you would in a in a deeper level, right, they've seen the face, you know, entrepreneur of the year type of awards and midnight health and things beforehand.  

Beyond that that layer, how would you describe yourself as?  

[00:06:53] Unknown:

That's an interesting question. I probably haven't thought about it too much. You know, I'd say that I'm also, like, a very focused and high energy type of person. If you ask my wife, she would definitely say that. We're on we're on, different channels where we wake up first thing in the morning. I think my daughter's a little bit more like me than her in that regard.   But also that's a 2 and a half year old, I suppose, as well. But yeah, I'm certainly, like, I've spent a lot of my life always being very focused on what I'm trying to achieve, focused on outcomes that I'm trying to deliver and not just from a business perspective, but a personal perspective as well. You know, I think it floats into,   things that I do outside of work. You know, we're kind of very driven to achieve those things. And for me, like, I   thrive on   challenges, problem solving, and goals. Yeah. And so for me as an individual, that's what I'm always spending my time, like, working towards. Mhmm. And I find that I've found periods over the years   with different businesses, like, say, Search Factory, for example, where we've kind of reached the point where I found that   not so challenging anymore. You know,   at the scale where we had sort of, you know, manager managerial layer that was looking after a lot of the day to day workings of the business, sure, we could have had a look at how we maybe expanded,   more into other markets or the rest of it. I kinda found that the challenge sort of went away in that business. Yep. And despite the fact that that was still, you know, a growing business and doing well financially,   for me, that wasn't like it started to remove the, you know, kind of mental stimulus that I'm looking for in my daily life. And so that's why I find myself   loving doing high risk things, like taking a concept about a business in a category that I know nothing about and trying to just go all in to see if I can do it. And it's like that is the thing that, like, keeps me going. And then, you know, it might not be might be in jujitsu, and it's like, well, can I spend the 10 years it takes to do this to get a black belt? It's like so I find myself always kinda   wanting to set these goals and these targets and and focusing my time and attention onto that, and I think that's kinda like   is me in business sense, but then also me in my personal life as well. Yeah. And and, like, the I think it it naturally  

[00:08:49] Unknown:

exposes itself in the business lens, how you act in your own personal way. I'm assuming, you know, jujitsu, you're a black black belt right now. I'm pursuing jujitsu. I'm assuming that's been quite a few years in the making. Right? I'm not sure if you have the mindset of, I wanna be, I think it's the coral belt, whereas you have to be like years of something like that. Right? Where it's like, okay, I've got goals.   Touching on goals, how do you then personally,   do you sit down and specifically   break them down for yourself? Do you have  

[00:09:17] Unknown:

a flexible view of what those goals look like? How do you set up the goal structure in either your personal life or in a business context? Yeah. Well, that's actually one thing that I think is kind of important in the way that I've changed over time because I think that I set a long term goal and   I take the mentality of, like, what do I need to do or continue to do to achieve that as opposed to setting, like, a time frame to achieve something because the thing that I've learned over the years is that the challenges, like, always pop up. So the journey is, like, never as straightforward as you want it to be, whether it's   something that you wanna do personally or in business.  

So from my perspective, it's like maintaining   a side or focus on that and getting to you in the work towards whatever that goal might be, but not necessarily   setting a time frame where you say I need you know, I've failed if I haven't achieved this by a certain point. And I think that's like a a challenge that many people encounter because they feel like they've failed something or haven't got there. Whereas, you know, I've realized over the years that you should just keep your sights pointed on that goal and all the things that come up along the way and interfere with that journey or maybe push a milestone out by 12 months or 3 years or 5 years.  

[00:10:24] Unknown:

It doesn't matter if you're just focused on the outcome that you're trying to achieve. Mhmm. And then that allows you to kind of approach the journey with a different mindset than saying, you know, I failed if I haven't achieved x in 2 years' time. Because the reality is whatever whatever plan you lay out, there's something that's gonna get Yeah. Like that. You know? So you can't think about it that way. Mhmm. Obstacle's away. Yeah. Ryan Holiday crib, but how how do you then you you mentioned 2 years, 3 years, 5 years. I've got a personal challenge when it comes to goals like that, and I've had to structure some things in my own way to avoid that, which is I've got this symptom where I will kind of fancy myself at something different. 2 months go by, I'm really enjoying one of our Olympic lifting or something else. 2 months later, a year away. I'm gonna do something else. I just like doing different things like that, but some of these goals, long term goals,   2 years, 3 years, 5 years, how do you keep yourself? Is it something that you have to consciously have   to V yourself back to maintain that north side, that particular goal, or are you quite naturally   pretty focused in on what that looks like and whatever the obstacles or other opportunities that may arise,   you naturally kind of deflect them? Or if not, you know, how do you deal with other opportunities that may come about? Yeah. Well, I think there's, there's kind of 2 aspects to that. I think one,  

[00:11:35] Unknown:

I used to and I think a lot of early stage entrepreneurs   get distracted by all the shiny things. And   when I first started my entrepreneurial journey in 2008, I would have my phone with, you know, all my list of hundreds of ideas that probably a lot of entrepreneurs have done at one point in their life. Yep. And what I've realized is that   you're actually better to put more time and energy into one thing than you put 10% of your time into 10 things because, you know, ultimately you do a pretty crappy job at those 10 things, you know, until you focus all that time and energy into   one bigger goal that you're focused on. I think you get a better outcome   that way. So   I've found that now I do, I try to set less goals, if anything, and then just put my time and energy into trying to deliver them. The thing that I'll say,   alongside that with your personal goals, you know, when you're talking about the fact that you like to, you know, do learn new things, you know, every every few months, I think you need to go into those,   activities or those hobbies or or the the new quest that you're on   with a mindset of, like, what you're trying to achieve out of that. So I definitely do things like,   yeah, I got a motocross bike and I ride that once probably every 12 to 18 months. And so I, like, suck every time I get out there. And I really enjoy it, but my fitness on the bike is terrible. And I'm like, I still keep it because it's not worth enough to probably sell them. So I keep it. I go out and ride every now and then. And but I'm, like, I'm happy with that. Like, I don't wanna have try and be, you know, the next Chad read or in the professional mode as well. And I'm happy to jump out, go out with some friends every now and then, go for a ride. Like, I'm happy to just get that out of that   activity, whereas, you know, jujitsu, I wanna commit to that for multiple reasons because it's like a,   fitness and exercise and, you know, it's good for me mentally and I find that doing that on a regular basis, like, helps me with more than just learning the art of jujitsu. Yeah. So I think my mentality with that is very different to me, you know, riding my motocross bike or, you know, I like to go out and do car racing, for example,   and I get out and do sprints and try and hit better lap times, but it's like, I still only do that, you know, 4, 5 times a year. So you're not committing enough time and energy to that. So I think you obviously need to set your expectations and goals to be aligned at the start of doing something so you know where you know, how much energy and time you need to put into it. That's a that's a really good answer in that expectations setting. Yep.  



[00:13:52] Unknown:

My going in, I mentioned Olympic lifting,   going into it. I was training at a great gym here in Brisbane with it. There's a lot of quite elite Olympic lifters and so the immediate mindset is, well, comparison and yeah, I can do that. I can reach these top levels and then you see the, what it needs, the expectation of, you know, to get to those sort of levels, what does that look like? What am I then taking away energy from other areas? Right? And I think that's, that's important. It's the expectation and also what energy are you taking away from other areas of your life? Yeah. And one thing that I'm like, it still bugs me was, you know, I'd I set myself a goal to actually, do a mixed martial arts fight in a cage. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I was I had this essentially this play in between  

[00:14:34] Unknown:

selling Search Factory,   starting Midnight Health, having a baby where I could, like, train 10 times a week, which I was doing, preparing myself to do this. And, again, it's like expectations. I'd love to just do this once. What what a rush. Go through the journey. Yep. But I'm not gonna go try and become a UFC fighter. Mhmm. But so I was training, you know, super hard for that,   at the point where I was about to, you know, start getting matched up for a fight. I was about 8 weeks out, and then I injured my knee at a jiu jitsu competition, and that kind of put me out of that. And so then I had a decent recovery,   then we got pregnant, and then I then, you know, health started to get busier, and so I kinda never got to tick that off. Mhmm. And that bugs me now, like,   3 years later, 4 years later. It's still gonna bug me for probably, like, a Do you do you think personally as who you are, it'll it'll be one of those things that'll you know, a space time will come in your life, and you'll go, I need to attempt that again. Maybe well, it's the charge for me right now is time. And again, you go when you wake up your schedule, I'm like, I wouldn't have the time to because you that's something that you wanna make sure you give it the appropriate level of,   you know, time when it's just you don't go in there and hurt yourself. It's a dangerous   activity.  

So for me, it's like it really comes down to when I would be at a point in my life where I could dedicate enough time to it, Mhmm. Because, you know, you don't wanna go in half assed and,   end up in a bad position. Well, it was like like like Fadi and most I think probably in life. You don't want to and when it's important that you care about it, you don't wanna go in there half assed. So for me, maybe it'd be like a debut of, well, like, 40, 50 birthday. It's like Yeah. That'll be something fun. There you go. Something to look forward to in a couple of years. Well, I think also, like, some of those they're, like, local events. You know? They can find other people who are in a similar boat, you know, who are, like, hey. Another 45 year old guy who wants to,  

[00:16:12] Unknown:

take his debut. Well, exactly. Just try with you. You don't wanna be in there with someone who's, like, up and rising. I I hear you wants to be at UFC level. He's gonna come and smack you. You want someone who let's have, like, let's have the enjoyment that comes from this Yeah. Leading into the into the round, leading into, like, the practice, being there present, being fit, being able to do it. Yeah. So   maybe, like, 4 more podcasts done together. We can, into That'll be discussed. That'll be like the the post Nick Blair, interview. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Midnight Health, right. Again, there there have been   a pretty big journey. We, I guess last time we talked about it, which was 2022, we were at your offices, we were talking around the size of the company, which I believe it was around 50 staff,   at that current time.  

You had a pretty substantial NIB,   incoming, funding to sort of grow the company. I believe Yulee and Steiger were around, but they were at the its beginnings. Right?   Where where would you say Midnight Health as an overall sits now? And then really let's talk about probably what's the most of interest right now, HubSpot.  

[00:17:11] Unknown:

Yeah. So we're at this stage that, you know, we're definitely in kind of scale up stage now. Mhmm. So, you know, the team, we're at about 65 people now. I think we were talking earlier about the fact that, you know, I don't view trying to scale the team up, much more, say, over the next 12 to 24 months. The reality is we've got a good foundation of software engineers, medical team, you know, operations team,   and marketing that can and products that can kind of deliver what we need to, that's on a road map. The area where we have had to scale up are probably mostly in that new team members is in the operational side. So as the number of customers coming through has continued to scale, we've had the natural bottlenecks of, you know, resource from a clinician   resource in patient support. So we've had to kinda start filling up the operational teams to meet the demand of customers that are coming through. We're at the point now where   we have seen, since the last time I saw you, pretty significant growth over the last 2 years.  

So you're at the point now where we've seen over 200,000   customers through the platform.   I think we public knowledge that I think we did $9,000,000   revenue in f y 23, we did $26,000,000   in f y 24.   We're now pretty much on track to probably close to double that again Yeah. This year. So the business from a, financial metrics performance is going really well. Everything's heading in the right direction,   but we've definitely got   many more things on our road map. Like, so and that's what that's what excites me about this business, you know, to the points I was making earlier. Mhmm. There's sort of no,   no sight of when we would get to a point where we're kind of done building. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  

You might recall that, you know, our vision is in building access to complete health ecosystem and so while we started with 5 or 6 products, you know, back in 2021,   we're now at the point where we've sort of got 25 different condition based products. We've got just recently launched a general telehealth so we can kinda consult for anything, through pathology, imaging, and specialist referrals. We've got an over the counter store for pharmacy products. Mhmm. And so   we see ourselves, you know, continuing to, build new capabilities around things like allied health specialists,   digital health programs to support lifestyle and behavioral change, continuing to bring, you know, focus on new conditions, new chronic diseases, things like that as we build more capabilities. Mhmm. So that's like a long very long term journey. And, yeah, at this stage feels like a never ending one. Yep. And then the other the other thing that we're really excited about now is the move into the corporate health space. So Yes. To date, you know, with UltraDolian stagger to begin with, hub.health   is the brand that we launched, about 2 years ago, so probably around the time that we last spoke, and that's focused on, kind of a more mass market brand. So it's sort of gender agnostic,   age agnostic, caters for, you know, families coming in to access the,   medications and treatments that we're offering and right through to,   other new markets that we can enter into. And so we've been a direct to consumer business essentially until this year, and now we've just launched HubSpot for Business, which allows   employers to pay for their employees to get access to hub.health,   get access to unlimited telehealth consultations,   free shipping discounts on, pharmacy medications,   the ability to kind of skip the queue, and get priority access to clinicians.  

And I think there's a really exciting opportunity for us to move from being direct to consumer business into,   b to b business as well and provide services to corporate. So that for me right now is the thing that I'm most excited about. I think in   the international markets, like the US, Canada, UK,   giving employees access to primary care is actually pretty standard with corporate health insurance.   Whereas in the Australian market,   you don't have access to primary care because it's, you know, government funded, private health insurers aren't allowed to pay for it. I think there's this big gap where the cost of getting access to care is increasing. Mhmm. And that means that there's a role for somebody like us to play in coming in to disrupt that and allowing employees to actually help fund,   access to, clinical services for their, employees.  



[00:20:58] Unknown:

Yeah. The so the the interesting thing on Hub I just wanna, confirm HubPass there and especially you guys were a business. Is that, located specifically to Australia and New Zealand, or is that on is that international as well at the current time? Just Australia for now. Yeah. So, the challenge with being a healthcare provider is that, yeah, we would currently need to build new clinical workforces, new pharmacy partnerships as we expand into other markets, new regulations. So it's unfortunately  

[00:21:23] Unknown:

makes it harder to scale internationally, but probably, yeah, creates a few barriers for competitors coming in here at the same time. So, yeah, we're we're aiming to kinda now listen to the Australian market for this, but then there is potential to move to a New Zealand market with it because NIB, our investor, has has got a New Zealand presence. And then beyond that, you know, who knows? We could look to move into other markets as well.  

[00:21:42] Unknown:

Now the with being basically a first mover in any market also comes along some nasty challenges or some thorns or some obstacles.   What are those? Yeah. What were they? Let's just say, what were they for Midnight Health? Are they still present?  

[00:21:56] Unknown:

What was the biggest challenge? How'd you guys get around it? Look, I think we're yeah. It is a challenge when you're essentially   being a bit of a disruptor in a market, and we're certainly not the only digital health company in Australia, but I think we're all focusing   similar challenges and the reality is   there's a pre existing regulatory environment and lobbying groups that support certain aspects of the health care industry,   and   trying to, innovate in this space comes with a lot of challenges from those types of groups who represent   clinicians who kind of have a view that they wanna maintain the status quo and keep health care delivery the same as it has been for the last 50 years. Mhmm. And so I think we've faced a few things around changes from the medical board to guidelines around, yeah, asynchronous consultations.  

The TGA has made, recommended changes around things like providing access to compounded medications for, people who are seeking weight loss treatment.   So as the any of these digital health initiatives start to scale up, the regulators are pretty quick to try and find ways to,   you know, for lack of a better word, stop the progression of those things, as opposed to consult with the industry and look at how we can do things better. I think that's a challenge for the Australian market.   The reality is that when you look to markets like the UK   and Europe and and other,   countries, they're they're building regulatory frameworks that actually support innovation and digital health care delivery, whereas Australia has   almost adopted a bit of a default no stance in   some areas of the Australian   landscape. So it does make it hard and you do have these challenges to face on a daily basis. And the reality is we are actually   all for good clinical governance frameworks, good regulatory frameworks, and we want to engage with the regulatory bodies and,   the medical board and the likes to say, hey, how can we sit down together and actually build a good set of standards,   that help to adopt and,   move things forward and ensure that patients are safe. Mhmm. The reality is we just don't have that framework now. And so, you know, we're almost getting to the point where we go, well, how do we actually be the people who drive that forward and propose something, you know, to the government, to these bodies and say, let's work on this and, you know, here's a starting point. Which is a big a big challenge. And I wanted to ask  

[00:24:04] Unknown:

you for yourself then for for Midnight Health,   where do you sit now as the most valuable player, or how how do you yourself sit in giving the most value for the company? Is it being also a bespoke person and helping out to have those conversations at a more,   influential level to kind of sit to that area? Are you still in a very operational,   level mindset?   Where do you sit currently when it comes to Midnight Health?   And I'm just trying to understand is that probably taking up quite a lot of your time in being that sort of spokesperson to help drive those conversations?  

[00:24:37] Unknown:

A little bit but yeah your role as a founder definitely changes over time you know when it's you your cofounder, and 2 staff, you're kinda doing everything. Yeah. You're doing everything. Yeah. Yeah. And as the business has, grown to the point where they're sat now, I spend a lot of my time,   working with NIB, our investor, and being the person who kinda leads our relationship with them. Mhmm. So, you know, attending their strategy days, board sessions, those types of things, ensuring that, you know, we've got the support from them that we need as we progress, particularly as we've encountered   some of these challenges along the way with regulatory changes,   guidelines changes that that could potentially have an impact on the business, and we need the board's support to make our own decision.  

So I spent a lot of time engaging with them, engaging with, yeah, other industry stakeholders.   So, yeah, I see longer term, it's certainly more advocacy as well, particularly as we try to engage   people, you know, the Australian Patients Association, for example, who we've joined recently to to say, hey, I can sit down with them and go, well, how can we actually try and have a seat at the table? And then making these changes to, some of these frameworks that impact the way that we can operate as a business. Yep. So I I certainly see myself spending more and more time doing those types of things. And the other one is that you spend a lot of time as a founder doing the things, you know, in an early stage of a business.   As the business grows, it becomes more about how do you bring the best people together and align   them,   their ideologies,   align the vision that the business has, and how do we all work towards our North Star or what our goals are in the next 6 to 12 months. And really, it just becomes making sure that we're pointing the get the right people on the ship and point the ship at where we're trying to go and make sure that there's nothing that gets in the way of achieving that. Mhmm. And I think you find when you attract the people who   enjoy start up life, sometimes they're also the same people who do get distracted by the shiny things. Yep. So you're conscious of that yourself. And so you go, how do I make sure I align these, amazing group of people into one goal or or what the next goal is before we move to,  

[00:26:28] Unknown:

the one that follows as opposed to make sure we're off doing a whole bunch of things that aren't achieving a lot. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And was that easy for you? And and what I'm I'm asking for is, was it easy for you to go, oh, yep. I can I can build a team, have the right people, and step out of the day to day or the operational or the things that, you know, you are the founder? You've   likely built up a lot of these tacit knowledge within the company.   Is it quite natural based on the previous sort of businesses that you were also running to kind of, yep, step away, let other people do it, or do you have a tendency to,  

[00:27:02] Unknown:

well, lean in, touch base, help out, count on the day to day? I I still I mean, I still work pretty hands on with the leadership team. Mhmm. But at the same   time, I'm definitely somebody that's good at giving people autonomy and a license to fail and make decisions themselves. Yeah. Okay. That's one thing that I think I'm good at that some founders are not good at. Lottard. Lottard. Lottard. Now personally one individual, I'm gonna send this podcast afterwards,   who is terrible with it. Right? Building a really fast growing company that wants to do everything himself to the every hire that's coming through. Right? And it's a challenge. One of the guys in our leadership team actually said to me a couple of months ago that, when he first joined the business, I essentially said to him that, you know, when you come into the team, you're gonna have full autonomy to make decisions. I'll give you that, you know, but you take the wins with the losses. But, yeah, but also you have a license to fail and and see what works best in your department. He actually said to me, he goes,   there was, like, a key moment, I can't remember what what it was related to, but this was a key moment where I said to him, well, yeah, it's your decision, go and make it. And that was a few months after I'd hired him. He goes, a lot of founders and CEOs will tell you that you have autonomy, but the reality is you don't. No. But there's definitely a key moment in his sort of working relationship with me where he realized that I actually meant   that. And we very much give our team, you know, the ability to kind of make their own decisions and own their outcomes. And they're the people that we want in the business. And my view is that I think that's the only way you can scale to the size that you're trying to get to. And I also never   view my like, I'm I should never be the smartest person in the room at a certain discipline if I've hired the right people. Absolutely. So my view is, like, I'm really I'm trying to, like, sell the vision and the dream to the people who are fantastic at what they do and bring them onto the ship and and join the journey with us. Mhmm. So my view is I wanna only be have a group of people who I can trust and lean on to actually make those decisions themselves.  



[00:28:49] Unknown:

Mhmm. With the   there's a lot of knowledge that you're bringing out. Right? And I'm   trying to also understand   because it would be, I think people would also be curious to know, for yourself, who now where you sit in terms of from a growth of these businesses where Midnight Health currently sits, everything's going well and rosy, and obviously there's day to day challenge, but things are looking and they're going the right path.   Where now do you sit or look towards for either   more mentorship   knowledge,   that sort of information? Is it an individual? Is it different knowledge sources that you now look to in terms of how do we go and take the next step or how do I go do this?  

[00:29:25] Unknown:

Either publicly known people or people who are maybe a little bit more in the shadows that people don't really know about or even just information sources. What does that look like for you? Yeah. For me, it's not. I've never really had a, like, you know, one to one mentors like some people, you know, really advocate for. And I could certainly see the value in that for sure. I just sort of hasn't really found that as something, that has kind of been on my path, I suppose. But I'm always looking to try and learn from people who have done or who have achieved where I'm trying to get to. You know, like, what's my goal? You know, we talked earlier. It was like, well, where am I trying to be in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years? Whether it's with my existing business, another business at some point, I'm like, who are the people who have actually done those things that I'm trying to do myself   and how do I go and learn from those people? And so I find that, like, so I try to put myself out into environments where I'll meet those people or attend   events or conferences where I can hear from them. So, yeah, I met some fantastic people, for example, speaking at the AFR Entrepreneur Summit a few months ago, and I'll try and put myself in those environments where I'll speak on a panel and then meet an awesome group of people who have gone and done things that are significantly bigger than me. Mhmm. You know, how do I build relationships with people like that? How do I go to,   put myself at events like, you know, in next month this month? Now I'm going to TechCrunch Disrupt again for probably, like, the 5th time in San Francisco. Yeah. And so because that's just a room full of people who have achieved outstanding things. And so for me, it's like, how do you learn from all these people who have achieved something bigger than you or or achieve the goal that you wanna achieve and and put yourself in those environments? Yeah. Be being in the position, I guess, to have those serendipitous connections and conversations because you're ultimately for yourself and the percentage of the people who you might meet or interact to, as you say, are gonna have either achieved similar success that you are looking for perhaps or something related is gonna be   lower, lower percentage until you start going to those locations where those are. And, oh, and the one thing to add to that, I don't think it's and I don't look at that as, like, a success from a dollar perspective as well. It's more like finding like minded people who are working on cool things that I like that have scaled them up to certain points. And that's where that's a I think the key thing because, you know, I could go meet   a lawyer, for example, who's made a heap of money as a lawyer and built a big law firm, but that doesn't interest me at all. No. Yeah. I'm like, who are the who are the people who are, like, building cool things and  

[00:31:41] Unknown:

interesting things, and they're the people that I wanna meet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and this is the sometimes the the saying of, you know, don't meet your heroes. Right. Sometimes you meet these individuals and you you you hear a percentage of who they are, what they've done, and then you go and find out   all of the underlying reality and maybe they've done   certain things or morally just go around some particular things to achieve what they've done. Fantastic. That's an achievement and success in its own right, but then everything else kinda doesn't then match up to maybe what your expectation was, right?   But   for yourself then in the have you   encountered anyone   who, in your journey now, you've gone, I saw these individuals as I was going up and now I've got to meet them and see them and you go, actually, there's some signs here that   no. There's some pitfalls here on the way up that I really have to watch out for because I've seen it now in in other areas or in other individuals who I thought had it all figured out.  



[00:32:32] Unknown:

I think that's almost everybody that I've met that's had success.   I think that the reality is that there's very few founders, and I probably almost   haven't met a single founder who just started a journey and everything went right for. And so if anything, the thing that I've learned, and this is probably why I've why I've turned to our view goals, you know, as we talked about timelines and expectations. It's like, I've now actually met that almost every person has, like, gone through this. Like, even if they've, you know, built a $1,000,000,000 business, it's like they've actually had all of the same challenges. You know, they on the outside from the outside, you might look at that person and go, wow. They just had the perfect journey to building a $1,000,000,000 company. But almost nobody has actually,   you know, followed that path. And so it's I think and and   startups and,   founders are glamorized in the press   with movies and all the rest of it to suggest that, you know, everyone's going on a Mark Zuckerberg journey of, like, launching a business, and then, yeah, it's taken off and, and, yeah, the rest is history. And I think the reality is that almost like no founders go through that journey and, you know, I'm sure even Mark Zuckerberg has had a 1000000 different challenges along the way. Right? And so,  

[00:33:38] Unknown:

that's probably the actually, the the common theme is that everyone has had a yeah. Clear up. No one's had a straight path. There's always been some sort of challenge there, which is it's it's interesting seeing the the more that, obviously, in now saying about it, the, yeah, the reality is and from where where you capture it, where it's media or an article, you know, you can only see a sliver of the reality of what you see. And then to see, yep, all the same challenges are just amplified by the dollar value that you have or the people that you're looking after then just expounds from that. What do people perhaps   not know about you then, Nick, in terms of a lot of the conversations that you might have? Now this might be, as you say, at the AFI Enterprise Summit or it might be ad conversations,   just at the surface level with people. What do people sometimes   not understand about you or something that you've discussed maybe just more in family and friends? You're like,   yeah. People just don't get this about me.  



[00:34:26] Unknown:

Well, I don't know if I'd say they don't get this about me, but many things people don't know about me is that,   my wife would say I collect lots of random junk.   So I've got and sometimes it pays off. So I've got, a pretty big collection of,   Funko Pop Vinyls.   Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so,   I like I said, they actually started I started buying them early on because I thought they were pretty cool.   And but then over time, they've actually some of them have started to grow in value,   pretty significantly. So, you know, I was basically, I bought them all for about $15 each. And some of them that I bought very early on, you know, they stopped production because it was early in, and some of them are like $1,000 each. Yeah. So, you know, I've got kind of like a $15,000   collection and these, like, random plastic toys that my wife thinks are junk. Will you carry them around house to house and they're like, why are we taking this everywhere? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're staying with me. And I have no intention of reselling them. Sure. That's not why I bought them. Yeah. But I guess I could one day if I needed them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, like, I do find myself   liking   or buying and collecting random things. Like, I've kind of always done that as a child as well, like, collections of basketball cards and Yeah. Like, Tarzos, you know, whatever, things like that. So I've just always bought and collected stuff. So that's something interesting. You know? And then I tried some nice things like, how does that relate back to the rest of my life? I don't I don't even know how, to be honest. I think just thing just random things,  

[00:35:48] Unknown:

just tend to interest me at the different door. I collect well, it sounds like a collective a collective's mind, so in particular. But and this is the interesting thing that I do know about you that people might may not know is that you like to drive, you have a selection of cars and not just   a supercar, right, a Lamborghini,   Huracan SDI, but also just fun Asian cars, right, that rides   cars. And   you like to drive them, you drive them on a daily basis, you know, depending on the day, depending on the car, whatever it may be, as opposed to being like a show car where you kind of leave it alive and don't have any mileage on it, which is in itself quite good. So while you might be a collector, it seems like you also utilize these various things that you actually have as well, which is really, really interesting.   The Huracan SEI, you've now had it for, when we chatted in 2022, I think you were gonna get it in August, but I'm assuming you have now for over a year now. Yeah. It's actually just hit 12 months. Just hit 12 months. Just hit 12 months.  

There you go. Okay. Got an email the other day to say it's Oh, there you go. It's ready for it.   What,   what are your thoughts on that in comparison to the previous one? Was it was it worth the wait?  

[00:36:49] Unknown:

What are your general thoughts on it? Yeah. It's an entirely different car than my last, hurricane.   Like, I expected it to be better, but not to the extent that it is, which as you can imagine is fantastic when you've gone and bought it and made the decision to because you sold it because you you made the decision and then sold the previous one. Yeah. And you had to wait till the new one sort of came in. Yeah. There's no going back to that point.   But, honestly, it's like just a whole different car. Like, it handles   the like, the actually, the biggest shock on it is the brakes, which is not the thing that you would think, you know, it really stands out when you go and drive a new car. But the braking on that is insane.  

Yeah. It just feels lighter. It breaks so good. It's,   yeah, it handles a lot better than the previous one. Yeah. They're both rear wheel drives, but it's, like, almost just a completely different car. Like and so I've only had it out on the track once, and that was for a Lamborghini drive that was actually raining that night. Yep. And, honestly, I think I could do a faster lap in the wet in the STO than I could do in the dry on my old Hurry car. Wow. It's just that good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just It's amazing. Yeah. Now I kind of heard the story, but I wanted to hear it from you directly.   Were you at all thinking of actually getting a Ferrari? Was this correct? And then you went over to the US and you tried out both and you're like, no. No. No. It's hands down the Huracan. Was that what happened? Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. And so I'd not still add a Ferrari to garage now. It's probably another thing that, like, why as my goal would be a car collection. Yep. Yeah. I've got a few cars as you know, but I wanna keep building that out. So,   I'm not even someone who's tied to a certain brand. Mhmm.  

So I would there's certainly a handful of Ferraris that I'd like to add to the garage, but when it came to the decision of 1 or the other, yeah, the the Lamborghini was definitely   more my style. It was louder, a bit more raw, more fun to drive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More colorful. Yeah. The noise of the v ten in the Lamborghinis is insane. Mhmm. And so that's pretty much why I, why I decided that that had to be the choice. Yeah. Now, again, collections, and you mentioned your your wife earlier before as well.  

[00:38:44] Unknown:

What is across all the collections, is she is she also comfortable when you current, yeah, bringing along all the cars to to all the different places? Have you ever had to have the conversation between the cars and the other collections? Like, okay. No. No. You you can't just go and get another another Asian car or something like that. Has that ever had to be that conversation?  

[00:38:59] Unknown:

She's actually really good with that. Okay. I think she's realized after spending many years with me, and we met back in 2007   when I just graduated uni. So she's been on this whole journey with me from, you know, getting my first marketing job right through to All the way now. Health today. And so I think she's realized that they're the things that   I enjoy. That's what I work for,   you know, to to bring these things into my life that I that I can, enjoy and have a good time with. And I'd be happy with or without them, but at the same time, they're the things that, I feel that is like a reward for putting in work and,   setting yourselves goals and go, well, I'm gonna go work super hard and try and, you know, whatever I can because I wanna add the Slimming Genie to the garage. And so they're the driving forces behind,   would allow you to   not only,   get a reward for the work that you've done, but then also, like, enjoy   aspects of your life moving forward from that. You know, you go to a like, definitely, when I go sometimes I'll drive the Lamborghini to work. Like, when I drive it to work and drive it home on a day, especially if, like, you know, tough days and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it honestly is Enjoyable to drive home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brings   it brings the joy that that driving a Lamborghini does. Yeah. And I think she understands that. She understands what motivates me, what my motivations are.  

The things that will   help me keep that drive and motivation to keep doing what I'm doing, and so she's a big supporter of that. There are, she was like, I was deciding whether to get the STO or not because this is a bit more expensive than the older account. And she was, like, all for it. She's like, yeah. Let's go. You know? I she was saying to do it before I decided. I was like Oh, wow. I get okay. So she's all for it. She's all for building the car collection. Oh, I love that. Enjoy it. Okay. Okay. Now these final two questions, feel free to take a little bit of time because I didn't prep you for these particular questions, but it's something that I I'm interested in and and perhaps other individuals are.  

[00:40:42] Unknown:

And then also now back in on on the family side of things. One is   what are your thoughts on   basically generational   passing on generational wealth, right? What does that look like? Is there, have you had a thought around, no, I'm gonna basically   spend it all as it goes towards the end and just use it up or is it on the other extreme with, you know, invest,   grow and then be able to pass that down into the family structure as it looks like. Where do you sit in that? Because I think a lot of people that perhaps you get past the the foundational of of building a company,   success comes along with that, which is a multitude of things,   and then   problems arise later down when you've built a family and whatnot because   there's confusion or what that looks like from a generational thing. Have you guys thought about it? Have you thought about it? Do you have a strong view either either way?  



[00:41:31] Unknown:

I wouldn't say I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, but as you were asking the question,   the thing that I feel   there's 2 parts to the answer. I think   you should try and be in a position if you can, you know, where you you can certainly make sure that the life of your child is comfortable If you can't, not everyone could be in that position, so if I am in that position   whenever I pass, then yeah, I'll be grateful that I can give that to my daughter. But at the same time, I actually think it's more important to teach generational skills   And so as you're speaking about   generational wealth, I was thinking, what's actually more important for me is to teach her how to do the same thing.  

So it's important to me that she grows up and has a good work ethic, that she   seeks out problem solving,   if that's the path that she wishes to take. I think it would be fantastic if I could leave her with the knowledge and the skills to be able to actually   get a step ahead herself regardless of whether she got handed money or not. Yeah. So to me, I think that's almost even more important, but at the same time, if I can be in a position to give her the capital and the resources so that she can actually, you know, have even higher chance of success,  

[00:42:37] Unknown:

in whatever she chooses to do, then to me that's important as well. And then the last one here is fast forward to your daughter being 18 years old,   2 pieces. Scary thought. Yeah. Scary.   Scary thought.   At that point, what is the one generational skill that you   wish that she'll have a a plenty already to gonna take on the world?   And what   would you like her to view you as   that you would then find in that to be   either proud or, like, yes, I successfully was able to   be this in her eyes?   The skill for her,   I think, is not related to   a  

[00:43:21] Unknown:

skill to build a business or anything like that. I think it's the skill to   be confident, be happy, and do the things that she enjoys the most.   From my perspective,   she doesn't need to be an entrepreneur.   She might find happiness in something else, and I think at the end of the day, if you can be happy, then I think that's living a fulfilling life. Mhmm. So for me, I think it's it's for her. It's like I never want her to be in a position where she isn't happy with her life and, you know, we of course, we always go through our ups and downs, but it's like she needs to have the confidence in herself to change her path if it's not heading in the direction that she wants, whether it's career wise or I ever want her to feel as if she can't do something because   I I want her to do something else, you know, within reason. I'll be.  

Yeah. She wants to live a life of crime. I'd probably suggest that she doesn't. Maybe pull it back a little bit. Yeah. But the reality is, yeah, I wanna just follow a path that makes her happy, that Luke gives her a fulfilling life. And, yeah, the reality is that financial stresses   can sometimes lead to unhappiness and so, you know, that's why I think sometimes we find that, you know, ensuring that you're financially secure definitely helps with leading a happier life, you know, you don't have to worry about some of those things. But, yeah, at the end of the day, as long as she's happy, I think that's the main thing. You know, that's the kind she's a very happy girl now. She's quite bubbly, energetic, and that's the thing that I hope that she never loses, you know, if she goes up and the world tarnishes her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keep keep that as pure as possible and then let the tarnish just go as slow as possible. Yeah. What about the second view in terms of at 18 then she looks at you and goes, yeah, she's gonna be proud of you and she wants to, you know, call out  

[00:44:49] Unknown:

maybe, again, a skill or a feature or something. What what would success be like for you for her to say?  

[00:44:55] Unknown:

Yeah. I think for me, it's like I want her to remember me as someone who, you know, who worked hard and was motivated.   I think that's, like, what's important. Right? Because I I don't think that   like, my view of a lot of entrepreneurs who have success,   in and even people in pursuits of life, you know, unrelated to business,   your motivation and, your work ethic to achieve those goals is the the force in most times that actually get helps someone to achieve it.   So I think the reality is that   the smartest person in the room doesn't always win, you know, or the person who's the most naturally gifted or talented. You know, you can see it in sports all the time. You see it in business. It's the person person who wants it the most. Mhmm. You know, the person who's motivated enough to achieve that. Mhmm. And so I think, ultimately, like, that's the thing that I want her to remember me for and see me as a role model for. Mhmm. Because I think, you know, life is tough. She's gonna  

[00:45:48] Unknown:

find situations where she ends up, where she you know, things are tough and the going is tough. And it's like as long as you can look for have the motivation to keep going and and strive for the goals, whatever she wants to achieve that will lead her to happiness, I think that's the driving force that will get her there. So, you know, that's how I want her to remember me as well because I want that to be one of the principles that she adopts into her own life. Mhmm. Absolutely. With that, I'm gonna leave it there. Nick, really appreciate it jumping on for the mere mortals podcast and taking the time out of your day. Again, for individuals who wanna check out Midnight Health or Nick Blair on LinkedIn, it's probably gonna be the best way for people to just to see your journey if things continue. Probably catch up in about 2 years' time and see how everything is, but hopefully everything goes well with Midnight Health already is, but hopefully all the other little obstacles will pop up, things go well in the end. So I appreciate it, Nick. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thanks for having me again, and I'll see you in another 2 years for part number 4.