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The three fundamentals of lifestyle, action & communication.

In Episode #497 of 'Musings', Juan & I discuss: the core idea of “true confidence” versus the old-school “fake it till you make it confidence” pickup playbook, startling a girl at the gym, how polarisation beats bland small talk, whether beginners sometimes need the “false confidence” phase to accrue the experiences that later support authenticity, why intent and adaptability matter more than scripts, the value of becoming excellent at something you love and how to balance strategic awareness with honest expression.

Huge shoutout to Cole McCormick for the support, very much appreciated!

Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortals

Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:53) Mark Manson's Models: background, blogging days and pickup context
(00:04:54) False confidence vs true confidence
(00:08:33) Three pillars: honest lifestyle, honest action, honest communication
(00:12:55) Kyrin's journey: from late starter to learning via pickup playbooks
(00:16:45) Advice from the top of the mountain vs beginner-friendly steps
(00:18:36) Metrics and outcomes: approaches, numbers, dates, and what actually matters
(00:21:50) Attraction & age
(00:31:30) Boostagram Lounge: AI as authority, crowd wisdom, and cautious use
(00:35:29) Honest lifestyle: hygiene, fitness, fashion and living for yourself
(00:40:42) Optimising lifestyle for dating vs for self-alignment
(00:46:47) Honest action: courage, anxiety and desensitisation via reps
(00:50:21) Flow state approaches and environment effects
(00:53:00) Polarisation over blandness: getting real reactions
(00:56:40) Language gaps, wordplay and making conversations less bland
(01:00:04) Honest communication: intent, games and assertiveness
(01:03:22) Short-term vs long-term communication styles and intent
(01:06:21) Pure honesty vs strategy: how far to plan interactions
(01:11:41) Personal hurdles: eye contact, smiling, and difficult topics
(01:15:06) Final take on Models: OK book, actionable lists veer into game
(01:17:52) Curiosity: reading the female-perspective playbooks next
(01:21:33) What is actually attractive? Avoid over-optimising the wrong signals

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[00:00:07] Kyrin Down:

Welcome, mere mortalites,   to another episode of the mere mortals musings. We're live here on Sunday, October 19.   9AM as usual.   Correct. Got Kyrin here. Got Juan on the other side. And today we're gonna be talking about honesty. True confidence.  

[00:00:23] Juan Granados:

True confidence. Whaman. Honesty,   woman.   Woman.  

[00:00:28] Kyrin Down:

Pewdiepie   way of saying women. And yeah, so I   didn't actually bring it today. But for those who are perhaps new to the mere mortals, what we do here on this podcast, we have   deep conversations with a lighthearted touch practical philosophy,   typically talking about   a topic that's kind of front of mind for us.   And I have been not doing book reviews recently. So this is going to be like a semi book review podcast.   Realized   I was kind of missing it today. And I actually did see some women   today this morning. Women. It was   a hot girl book club meetup from what I could tell what there was there was probably like 10 of these girls walking around. Some of them had t shirts on saying hot girl book club. And I was like,   I've definitely got the hotness, but I think I might fail on the on the part of it. So   unfortunately, I won't be joining that book club. But it did make me go like, oh, yeah.  

You know, I do miss some I do miss in a slight way, talking about books. So   unfortunately, I did bring the actual book to me today. So it's gonna be very hard for those out there. But imagine if you will, a book.   And that's that's what we've got here today. So I think it was like   300 and something pages.   Not very, not very long to get through in total. I don't know, like six to eight hours reading or something like that. Maybe a little bit less.   And,   it's by Mark Manson,   probably best well known for his other book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.   And,   yeah, I guess introduction for me is I heard about this guy,   much before he was, I guess, like and maybe even author. It was back when he was blogging in the days of the the Internet blogs of the twenty, twenty tens, maybe even slightly earlier in the 2000s.  

And it was via this guy here that I'm wearing on my shirt, Rush V, the roosh v forum, and he used to post in there. So I actually had heard about him,   checked out some of his stuff. And remember being like,   this isn't like, gonna be helpful for me. Like, I don't find this like actionable or practical. And this will be kind of like hinting at some of my takeaways from reading this book as well. But   I guess just so we can have this as a back and forth one. Have you ever even read a like a self development self help book? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Self help books. Well,  

[00:02:57] Juan Granados:

like atomic habits, I guess. Yeah, like things like that for sure. Yeah. I've heard like atomic habits. I'm assuming things like,   the   law of power,   power   of laws. 48 laws of power. Okay. Is that self help?  

[00:03:13] Kyrin Down:

I don't  

[00:03:14] Juan Granados:

know. Like, would you, I think it is classified as self help. I've read some of Tim Ferriss's books, which I guess would be self help. Like, I think I've read   Tony Robbins's stuff. I guess self help. Yeah, that's,  

[00:03:26] Kyrin Down:

that's. Although, although  

[00:03:28] Juan Granados:

I haven't actually, I haven't actually read Tony Robbins's   like actualization.   Yeah, you've read his book. I've read the like the, finance one and I've read the like health and wellness one. So like,   let's just say I've   I've dabbled in enough probably not in the real deep end of self help. Okay. Okay. Yep. How about And certainly never have I read a book on like pickup,  

[00:03:50] Kyrin Down:

game. Yep. None of that. How about psychology? Because that's  

[00:03:55] Juan Granados:

also A little bit. Yeah. A little bit.   What's the again, type one, type two thinking.   Daniel Kahneman's Thinking fast and slow. Thinking fast and slow. Yep.   Maybe maybe a couple of books like that. But again, not a ton load. Not some some in there, but not a ton load. Okay. So for those who haven't read this book or a book related to this, think of it as  

[00:04:16] Kyrin Down:

a typical self help book of, you   know, overcoming your fears,   creating a healthy lifestyle, that sort of thing.   Mixed,   particularly with, okay, this is how you can attract women.   And so   I see Cole in the in the comments saying,   the this is a bad philosophy, guys. I'm not sure if he's actually referring that to this book.   I wouldn't say this is a   philosophical   book or nor even a   style is in the   old   old pickup world, there was like,   the   mystery method. And so it was like a guy who would create his own method, which was about peacocking and wearing fancy hats, going to nightclubs,   nagging girls, all these sorts of things.  

That would be, you know,   I think there was a guy called Tyler Durden who had his own particular style that, you know, they all had their own thing.   I wouldn't say that this is that   he's not advocating a   branch,   a style.   It's it's certainly more on the   self help side   of things than the   this is a particular method that I've invented. And it's called the Mark Manson.   Yeah. So   just to break down the book, there's kind of three main parts with I guess, like,   the if you were to call something a philosophy around true confidence.   And so he describes that the   false confidence is what all of these other guys are doing, which is more of the fake it till you make it sort of mentality.  

If you, you know, you want to get a girl on the back foot, so you neck her, which is giving a backhanded compliment,   you got to push and pull your,   you know, here's these openers and say something ridiculous to like get her attention. Did you hear about that fight that happened outside or   something? All of these sorts of things. And   he's saying, you know, this is,   it will get you results. But the   it's it's kind of taking you away from,   I guess,   your own personality and you're trying to become someone else in a in a certain to a certain extent.   He goes into it much more. Whereas this true confidence   method, he talks about method, true confidence philosophy   is   more   getting to the point where I would say that you're a natural, aka one, one's never had to read a book about   picking up girls or attracting them or something like that. So he is what you would he would probably describe you as someone with true confidence, because you've never had to   think about any of these things. Or if you have, they've just been like,   subconscious,   you've you've perhaps noticed, like, oh, if I, you know, talk to someone in this manner, if I approach them in this manner,   I get like a  

[00:07:12] Juan Granados:

so he's a good one. Yeah, I do this and I get this result. But that's like subconscious. That's not like front of mind. He is his one. So I talked to this girl in the gym  

[00:07:22] Kyrin Down:

in the sauna.   A month ago, I saw her in the gym recently. And I was like, oh, you know, I'll just go up and say, Hi, I'm just finishing my set,   or I'd finished and was heading off. And I went up to her and she was like,   on her phone looking down   with a kind of machine type thing   next to her. So I really had to approach her like, almost directly from behind. She's wearing her phones and stuff. So it's like, Alright, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna have to like tap her on the on the shoulder. That's the easiest way of getting attention.   Scared the fuck out of her. She's like, well, like, you scared me. And she was like, for a full ten seconds, she was almost in shock sort of deal.  

That is a no no. That   in in   that's the type of thing that you want to avoid. That's not a good reaction that you, you want. Yeah. That's not what you're aiming for. Correct. If now I wasn't trying to pick her up. I'm just generally   saying goodbye to this guy or just having a   mini convo before heading off.   But that's the kind of strategy thing where it's like, maybe you did that once. And then you're like, Alright, I'm not gonna do that again. Like that. You're like, that's not a smart thing today. Yep.   So   the   I guess then he he talks about, I guess, the three branches that he has, which   are honest life, honest living, honest lifestyle,   honest   action, which I guess you could translate   to having like courage,   and then honest communication, which is the act of actually conversing and that encompasses body language and things like that. So,   yeah, I don't know. Is there any of that that interests you any reactions to any of that before I  

[00:09:09] Juan Granados:

Well, so the number one thing that came up in my mind about like hearing this and maybe kind of adjusting to what Cole said of like, Hey, not sure if that theory, that idea is correct.   The number one thing that goes to my mind is,   is that   the beginning point? Like, is that, I mean, I guess it would be interesting to see what you end up thinking about the ideas and whether you like what you incorporate and what you don't. Because   to hear honest communication,   honest action and honest thoughts,   right? I go, Yep, I can I can get behind that? And one of today   goes, Yeah, I get it. Like, that's   that seems   fine. Basic. Well, not basic, but it seems   foundational in a way. However,   and the big however is, is that really what you do on day one or day three? Yes. You do that on day 1,000   when maybe you've got the experiences and the actions.  

But it's often the case on   that's not what me and you did when we very first began. Sure. If I'd really done that in that way, would it have   given me the stories and the experiences that I have today that then I can apply this honest things and work out really well? There was Chris Williamson had a friend and,   he was big into pick up and it was in Newcastle or some places and he would sleep with like everybody as a pick up artist. And he's saying to Chris at some point, like, man, my future wife is going to thank me for this.   And Chris was like, what the hell? What are you talking about? And he was saying like, you know,   when I'm with my wife, you know, we're going to be out or we're going to be somewhere and she's going to know   or he himself will know that if a hot Brazilian chick walks by or something else walks by,   he won't care because he's already done it. He's already tried this. He's done the experiences.  

So there's like, now,   that sounds a bit cope, that sounds a bit copish because obviously he hasn't reached that. But to a lesser extreme, I kind of go,   I hear the like, yes, honest communication, honest action when it comes to,   the opposite sex for attraction and conversations.   But   there's certain experiences and certain like traction from zero to one or zero to five of just not even like sexual interactions, but just   being with another individual, like kind of the bent of the back and forth, the understanding,   the relationships that   maybe you do need to have that extra variable, that extra peacocking, the extra,   not just confident, but like overconfidence, the a little bit more extreme so that you do end up having those experiences over life. That's, that's my, I won't like go more into it. Something we'll talk about it first. But I think I'm like, I'm like   when I hear that and it's kind of like when I hear the pickup artist, well, and I hear that sort of stuff from Mark Minnis and I go again, I don't think it's at the total extremes. It's somewhere in the middle. However,   I think it is kind of my   philosophy in life is maybe starting to urge towards this is that I would rather I think   that when it's like from zero to one, zero to five, you know, from the beginning points rather than the 90 to 95%   type of like,   I don't know, skill set or confidence or whatever, kind of have to go a little bit more extreme. You have to push the rules, you have to push the boundaries because if you're not doing that, you might not even get running or you just don't experience some things. And then later   you it's like part of the foundation that that enables you to have all those honest things. Because like for sure, now I go all the stuff that you said, I'm like, ah, could not agree more. Maybe Cole goes like, no, not really. Maybe others would go. But in my position, I'm like, oh, absolutely.  

But that's   with, you know, years of experience and doing different things to then be in this position. So yeah, that's my. Yeah. So so you've ruined my  

[00:12:58] Kyrin Down:

final  

[00:12:59] Juan Granados:

final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final final  

[00:13:03] Kyrin Down:

my my overall like summary of the book or learnings from it, I guess you'd call it. And we'll jump into the particular sections perhaps after the Biscram Lounge. So   yeah, once once talked about how he's like natural.   I am the opposite of that, which is, you know, hadn't kissed girl until I think it was like 19, maybe something like that. And that was drunkenly at a party. And she came up to me. Actually, no, it would have been 17 because it was formal after party.   But the   the aspect for me was, you know, I had gone through a lot of these pickup artist books and had used some of the skills, their techniques, the openers,   the philosophies,   the Rushdie method,   that's that sort of stuff.  

And   whilst certainly have not slept with hundreds of women like that,   that guy you were just mentioning,   I did learn enough from it to actually see some results, aka going from zero to one getting my first date, you know, meeting the first girl getting first girlfriend even and etc, etc.   I'd do it all again, if you like put me back and you said like, Oh, Karen,   you found Mark Manson at this particular, you know, branching that you're   at, follow him more and like, discard Roche and any of the other people that you listen to.   I don't think that would have worked. And   it it's as you mentioned, his advice is the what what would I say it?  

He's the guru who's higher up the mountain. He's the Zen   koan   of you know, what is the sound of one hand clapping? It's the   level up   from where you begin. And so   his advice whilst I think like ultimately   more beneficial,   more truthful, perhaps where even a lot of the,   you know, pickup artists would agree to later on in their life   is just simply not practical enough for   the   the the layman, the non natural coming in and being like,   Well, what do you mean? Like, I've tried being honest with women before I've tried to, you know, talk to them   in like a heartfelt manner and things like this, and it's just always fucked up. And or like, I've never gotten anywhere.  

And so   I think you do need to like learn the stupid stuff. It's almost like   if you've got zero confidence,   you first need to get false confidence and then you get the true confidence. And that's that's kind of the whole   dichotomy.   It's not the right word. The the whole philosophy of fake it till you make it, you know, you got to fake it and then you make it. Yeah. And then you continue. Yeah. And then you've got you've made it. So then you've got the confidence to just continue. Yeah. And this is   a tricky subject of who   you   listen to for advice and how you get to things. So,   you know, let's say   his specialty is attracting women. And that's kind of his shtick, I guess.  

The you know, for me, it would be something like handstands. I'm obviously very good at it. People see me at the gym, and they'll sometimes ask questions and things like this. And I'm probably more of the Mark Manson type where I will   give them what, you know what, it's probably unhelpful advice, because I typically say this is the first thing I say is like, you're not going to like what I'm going to say right now.   But you have to go to a wall for six months, and then   put in years of practice, and then you'll be able to like get a, like a one minute handstand or something like that. You could probably do it in a little bit less time, but a year is like,   about what I would say for foremost all people.  

And, you know,   no, it does not require any core strength don't work on your abs, that's not helpful.   Your wrists are gonna hurt.   And   you'll probably never really feel that you're good at you're   always going to be kind of sucky.   That's not what a beginner needs to hear. They need to hear like, Yep,   do this many hiccups,   train this much per   day, tuck in your core, hold your core, you know, even though   you don't need to tense your abs while doing a handstand.   It's something that perhaps they can feel that they're doing. And it feels like they're making some progress.   And then eventually, they'll learn like, oh, no, you didn't actually need this all along. Yeah, like it's,  

[00:17:28] Juan Granados:

I'm just gonna say for something that they can focus on, it's something that at least they can actually interact with their body as opposed to like some tiny little movements of the wrist and the fingers and stuff like that. Some pointers that they could try and observe in the first  

[00:17:41] Kyrin Down:

two sessions in the first two weeks, but that won't matter in two years time. And so   I'm certainly more of the Mark Manson like,   it's my advice is not helpful for someone who's coming up for me and telling me that which is why I also then typically say, Hey, I've got a friend who comes to this gym, who is a PT here who teaches handstands   the bodyweight journey. Check them out.   So that's the that's kind of my typical thing, which is like,   I'll at least give them what I think they're looking for, even if I can't be the one to provide them for that. So   yeah, when when he talks about this book and   when he talks in the book,   I typically   feel like   he probably should say, go check them out, try it for a little bit and see what you think of their like the other types of advice that you get.  

And then you're probably going to come back at some point after realizing,   yeah, you didn't ultimately need that all in the end, even though   it it is certainly more actionable and   can give you something to work on. He also talks about, you   know, the   the metrics.   Guys focus on these things. How many how many approaches did you do in a night? How many did you do in a day? How many numbers did you get? How many first dates did you get on? Like, how many women did you sleep with?   And variations of all of that. And it's like, yeah, okay, but like, what are you honestly trying to get out of all of this? Do you do you just want to play the game of this? Because Yeah, sure. It's a fun game for a little bit. But then it's also a challenging game. And also you'll probably learn a bunch of stuff, which isn't that helpful.   Yeah, it was.  

That's the learnings from learning from the book one intuitively  

[00:19:26] Juan Granados:

understood without even having to read the book, read the book. Yeah. But I'll I'll buy you a ebook if you if you, if you write one. If I if I write one. I think this is the hard thing. It's like before we get into the boost agreement, so maybe maybe Cole is what Cole meant in terms of the philosophy. But it's like   part of the, again, part of the reason   I remember us, me wanting to call the podcast Me Immortals was because   I wanted to talk or have conversation   with   other   rudimentary individuals, me immortals, and it might be   people who have like scaled up.  

People who had like scaled up and they're doing big things. But   again, I was more interested in   what is it that they did   prior to becoming, you know, number one or really successful. So I guess   that is the more helpful thing to most individuals wanting to know. There's   probably very, very few people in the world that are still doing exactly the same as they were doing ages ago. Probably   Elon Musk, right? That dude was working his face off and he's working his face off even more now, I'm sure like in a crazy way. So but apart from these super unique people,   you know, me included,   I the way that I behave and acted and did things to achieve,   you know, activities or events when I was, what about 19   is so different to   now and   take it in the, you know, in the relationship space or just in dating space.  

For sure, just because of the activities and events that I've had in the past, I probably would approach it today slightly different.   Again, I can't talk whether it would be effective or not, but I would be more aligned to Mark Manson's view. I think I still go,   you almost have to like try out again the rules and the boundaries and push them, especially if you're by default,   not someone who's gonna excel at that. Like if you're   again, put yourself in a position of a whatever 17, 18, 19 year old, whether you're a male or female, if you're   quiet,   apprehensive,   not really confident, maybe you've got a cool story to tell, but you've got all these qualities that make it hard for you to initiate conversations or being in positions.  

I don't care if you're being honest   and you know, you're acting kind of nicely. It's going to be really hard for you to excel when   everyone else is doing something that is   entertaining or attracting the other sex. And at that point, you know, like a younger time, even   I was gonna ask you what at what age does this start like to become a bit different? But I'd say all the way into, like, thirties, you know, people still want the excitement, the difference, the variability,   the, you know, that's why there's   a bit of a saying of like, you know, good girls going for the bad guys. That's probably a more, again,   younger years sort of expectation. But people are attracted to know, things that they can't get or things are a little bit out of the boundaries that they should be. At some point, I'm sure that transitions right and feel like 45 years old and up. Yeah, we can't comment on that directly, but it probably changes into like, okay, fine, whatever. Like a bit of honesty and a bit of just more like a relaxed individual might be what people by default want more. Again, I have no clue, but yeah, I'd go not all the way to Mark Manson's from what you were sort of saying in that book. Not all the way, obviously, to Rushdie, but somewhere in the middle. Yeah. It's, it's difficult.  

It's difficult obviously for me to comment being like, yeah, there's some default stuff that I'll just naturally be like, oh, yeah, but I just wouldn't do that. But yeah, if you are, if you're someone who's reading   Mark Manson's   models, you're probably looking for a self help way of how can I express myself the best so I can connect with another, you know, another individual for a relationship or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. The it's such a weird book. So I have no idea why it's called models. There's no reference to  

[00:23:09] Kyrin Down:

like as you talk about supermodels, as you talk about models as in a framework, but that doesn't really make sense because there is no framework in the actual book. There's a lot like there's chapters, but I wouldn't call it like, like I said, it's not a method.   But yeah, just taking the tagline attracting women through honesty.   The   I'd say nothing really changes the older you get, you'd still want to be viewed as attractive. Now, obviously, as you get older,   your physical, you physically deteriorate. So you're  

[00:23:39] Juan Granados:

going to struggle to do that. But I get it, but it, no,   what doesn't change is,   is attractiveness.   Of course, people are attracted to attractiveness, but what the quality of attractiveness is changes.   When you're more in your youth,   attractiveness is probably   physical fitness.   It's,   dominance. You know, again, depending on the on whether it's male to female, female to male, it's probably like, you know, you're attractive to attracted to, you know, a better shape or, you know,   we might think that but actually evolutionary is you're attracted to someone with wide hips that can actually,   give birth to a good key or someone that right. So like part evolution part just humanity as society as evolved.  

Attractiveness would change so differently with your two 70 year olds for sure. Like I'm   someone who's 70, if you're listening to this, please tell me if you if you're single and you're on the lookout and you're like, Oh, I'm looking for the hottest 68 year old out here. Like, I'm looking for some. I mean, that would just be the lower percentage. I think the attractiveness there is maybe patience, maybe conversation, maybe understanding. Maybe there's other things that are the attractive quality, but   we   like something in the   gender,   in the age range and the gender and the grouping and the social structure and the country that you're in. Something's attractive.  

And if you're what I'm saying is in the younger years, the attractiveness is certain things I'm sure everyone can disseminate from the different areas that you live in. Right.   If you're in Africa, a bit of a thicker lady is more attractive than lady, right? Because they're also seen as like, oh, they're well fed.   That can be different in South Korea. That can be different in terms of the skin color that you'd want to have from an Asian country versus Western countries where you want to be tanner. So   attractiveness is different,   but at different times, that's very different indeed. And like right now in my thirties as someone with kids,   the attractiveness for both me and my wife, it's like, well, we're attracted to each other with communication and spending time with each other. The qualities that we might have, like, first met each other are are very different. Like, you know, you're not attracted as much per se of like, well, has he got a six pack and he's doing this? Nah, not necessarily. Like my wife always told me she was really attracted by my intelligence.  

Right?   Again, people can like say what do they want because I'm dumb.   She lucked out usually like that. You either fooled her or she's fake it till you make it. I'm still faking it.   But it's like, you know, the things that are attractive can change. But, you know, humanity is all   there's attraction. And again, if you're in a if you're in   a a group of a 100 people, right, and you are the most unattractive, unintelligent,   least, like, confident, least dominating,   look like what the typical beta individually is, and you come at it with, like, I'm gonna be honest and I'm gonna, you know, talk my feelings,   I'm just statistically saying, I don't think it's gonna work out that well for you. Like, you would be better served in self improvement, AKA become fitter, become better, be more confident, talk more, do all the various things that you just by default are thinking as you're listening to this, yeah, it kind of makes sense. Because it does elevate you in what you would call the status games there.  

Again, status games are played all the time everywhere. You know, whether you want it or not, it's happening. And I think you can step away from status   somewhat, but you kind of have to be in a relationship or in a position where you're already comfortable   in kind of like how Mark Mason's doing it, like in this ideal way.  

[00:27:04] Kyrin Down:

But you sure as hell can't do it at the beginning. Like, you're just not going to win doing that at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. We'll touch upon all of those in the next section. I watched this video this morning. It popped up randomly. And funnily enough, it's from a channel called Model Strangers. And basically,   from what I gather, this guy goes around to random people. He's a photographer and says, like, hey,   you've got a like a real interesting look. I'd love to take a photograph of you and then get into a conversation with them.   And he did it with this Irish guy. And the   title is the most raw conversation I've ever had revisited.  

And   essentially, it was like this   guy who   I guess you would say he   he he failed in life in a certain respect. And he himself says this, which is   like,   he doesn't notice   why he failed, but he just says he fails. And essentially it's this older guy   who's   like, he admits, like, he's obviously very intelligent by the way that he talks, but   it's   an miss   used intelligence. He didn't   apply it properly, I guess, if he had to say it. So he's like, you know, I didn't make I wanted to be wealthy, but I didn't make it. You know, I haven't had any friends for the last like thirty four thousand and fifty years.   Ever since four years old, I've felt alone.  

And   he's able to communicate, I'd   love to know. And this video is kind of cut down into six minutes, but it's obvious that they talked for a much longer period.   I would love to know, to see the full thing and you get, you could probably figure out why that he is alone.   And,   you know, hasn't got any friends and things.   But I'd say like, the main thing with him was just,   he didn't seem to be able to adapt to to change in a way or to change himself.   And and that is probably like the   the biggest   takeaway, I guess, from the book is that   self improvement is about making a line in the sand and saying, like, I need to do better, I want to do better. And it's almost just once you've   decided to take that action.  

That's   for   I don't want to add a percent to it. It's like the binary thing.   You if you if you decide, I feel like I've been working kind of hard over these last couple of years to   do better. I still had goal setting and stuff. But it's only really been since the start of this year or since sorry, started my goal. So start of this month, where I've actually really committed and said like, okay,   everything   that like I simply cannot continue to live as I have lived in these last five years. Obviously, I'm not doing something right.   What I'm gonna go like go all in and change everything. And this is,   you know,   related to all sorts of aspects of life.  

But it was that was like the binary flip of the switch. And then now it's like, okay, I still need to, like, put an effort, learn some new. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   But it's you can put   a half assed effort into something   and feel like you're making improvements. But if your heart's truly not in it, you  

[00:30:22] Juan Granados:

you're gonna struggle with results. Yeah. No, no, no, I agree. And and like, another aspect of it is like from a well result to just doing something that you wanna achieve. Again, don't look at what the ideal person that you want to be like or that is succeeding   or the ideal state, what they're doing then.   Again, maybe you can have a review of what they're doing before because,   you know,   take an example of the podcast, you know, we are doing X amount of podcasts per week and whatever, and we're barely working if you compare us to what we were doing three years ago, right? Three years ago, we were pumping them out daily podcasts. We're putting in effort.   Three years ago, Juan was working plenty hard to improve   life, let's just say, and then go back maybe another eight years. Shit. Juan then was working like very, very hard.  

The difference is like now I'd probably say I'm as effective. I'm just not working as hard. If I put the same level of hardworking, well, job, maybe I'll achieve other things that I'd be after, but it's not the optimization that you want now. So just be very wary of mimicking what the people you want to do or what you want. The ideal set is from those who are already at the top of the mountain, the gurus, because sure shit, I didn't do that when they were at the lower end. Yeah. Sure as shit.   But boostagram lounge, we do have a boostgram   a boost that's come through, which again, it's,   someone sending through,   Satoshis   alongside a message so we can read out. We also got streams as well on the various podcasting platforms, but you can do that, which is awesome.  

So Khan's gonna throw on his, his beanie. Oh, Shane. Beanie. We got one from Cole here.   So Cole's listening as well live.   So Cole very much appreciated, mate. He sends 1,111   sets in using fountain and he says, imagine and so this is in relation to our conversation of AI as a god or using it as authority.   Imagine being so dull and mindless. You need a computer to tell you how to live life.   Do not use AI for any sort of higher wisdom definition   of vaporware.  

[00:32:18] Kyrin Down:

Yeah.   I I'm inclined to   agree with that in the sense   that higher wisdom.  

[00:32:29] Juan Granados:

My my other comment is I think   leverage it to unlock   more thinking on your behalf.   Don't let it   replicate and take away your own thinking path. I think that's that's the key thing. Yes. I'll tell you right now, I've leveraged it so that I give it notes that it can help summarize for me so that I can refer to later. I leverage so that   my monthly notes that I do, I go take them all, summarize it,   give me an analysis of the month. What are my improvement points, where am I, like, learnings, what could I be doing better, all of those sort of things. So, like, in a way, it's I'm trying to extract   wisdom from inputs that I'm giving to it. But again, one, AI hallucinates.  

Two, sometimes I'll read and go like, ah, ah, that's not quite correct. So I think you still need to be doing a lot of your own pretty cool analysis on things like that. It gets it's gonna get things wrong still.   Yeah. Don't don't and especially when it's like,   I wouldn't be recommending   go throw into rock or chatty bitty or something and say,   Hey,   I'm 12 years old, kind of good at maths.   What should I study and do for the rest of my life? And whatever it gives you,   If you just take that by default   again, it's like you're letting the authority be this individual.   Now, people could say, what if you just ask your dad that and your dad tells you how do this? What has what is it? Is it any different? Yeah, it's got a bit of wisdom. Maybe there's some more complexities behind it.  



[00:33:56] Kyrin Down:

Again, don't use it as your only reference point. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. Good observation there. I'd also just say the   I imagine   asking it for for wisdom is it's going to give you the average wisdom. And look, the wisdom of the crowd is useful in many cases. But if you're looking for like the higher   you're looking for, the peak,   you probably need to find like a lone individual. And, you know, maybe there can be an AI that is,   breaks breaks the mold   and is completely   a unique thinker. And when I say unique, nothing's really unique, but, you know, creates its own   distinct style of wisdom, of higher wisdom. Yeah, maybe, but I haven't seen anything like that. I'm not aware of anything like that. And all of these things, like   they just require time and vetting   because,   you know, say they ship a new model out and then it's just like, oh, this thing I was talking to is now different. So   what's  

[00:34:55] Juan Granados:

like what's going on here? Correct. Correct. Yes. So yeah, to Coles Point, thank you very much, mate, for the boost. Yes, yes, man. But yes, don't  

[00:35:03] Kyrin Down:

don't don't write your brain out by letting it do everything for you. For sure. Yeah. And I see Cole in the chat. He says actually know nothing about women and Joey Seth comedy   comedy also says same Cole. Well, you're about to learn you fools. I'm gonna teach you the three here we go the three honest   parts of this. And maybe we can even rate ourselves on these. I slight I think I already slightly did this in a previous episode, but we'll okay, we'll do it again.   So we'll start with the first one that he started started with, which was honest lifestyle. And this is   where he's essentially   just saying,   the   there's there's some basics you got to cover.  

General hygiene.   Some sort of fitness doesn't necessarily need to be like big muscles, but you know, being fit, so you're not obese.   Fashion, so getting you like looking   somewhat semblance   of a normal   or even even normals.   Probably   he would say normal, I would say that's what he would advocate for. Like, don't   go out of your way and create your own unique,   you know, be on the cutting edge of fashion where it's   some   in perhaps in five years time, it could be the new fashion. Okay. Like,   if you got a belt curve, just don't be at the extremes. Just be somewhere in the middle, Whatever that middle like kind of looks like, just be there. Something like that, you know, and by the middle you can even be a little bit farther on the outside. It's just don't be the 2% on either side. Correct. You know,  

[00:36:36] Juan Granados:

go a deviation away, but not like a few deviations away. You're done again. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Weird. And  

[00:36:42] Kyrin Down:

then then it also just talks about, you know, if your job if you're unhappy in your job, this is also   part of the lifestyle.   I remember reading a bunch of these things in the past of   lifestyle stuff, and it would talk about   altering your lifestyle so that you're   in contact with more attractive women. And   by default,   and so I have to think that I would say,   become a DJ, become a club promoter,   become a photographer,   become like a yoga instructor or something like that.   Where else are places that women conquer it? Things like that.   And,   you know, I always just that struck me as like, well,   you're doing something then for for the women. So it's not really for you. It's   sure it's a like a lifestyle change. But if you're doing it for them,   that's not helpful   in a sense. And   that that what was one thing that did always strike me.  

Nevertheless,   the reason I went to yoga in the first place   was   that,   I was like, oh, you know,   I'm I'm got the opportunity. Maybe I can talk to some girls here.   I think I had talked to maybe one or two   when I first started going to it at UQ.   But what I actually found was like, oh, this is actually really hard.   Enjoy.   Enjoy strong word. I enjoy the challenge of stretching because it was fucking torturous.   And I did enjoy working on my flexibility,   because I knew that it would, I thought it was cool. It would help me out with other other bits. And now, you know, I've done a lot of it over the years. And   sure, there's still some interaction with women there. But that's certainly not the reason that I go to   most of these classes, or at least it's not the main reason.  

20% of the reason.   I'm starting a ballet course on Thursday.   What's,   what's the   percentage of me going there? If it was all guys, would I be going?   Probably not.   But   I still enjoy the aspect of trying to learn it and the style of it. So it's maybe like 30% of the reason that I'm quite ongoing.   And   so with the lifestyle aspects,   if I had to, like evaluate myself as a whole, this is where I'm like, alright, this one I've got ticked off. Almost everything I do in my life I is because I want to do   it. I've crafted it because it suits me and my temperament   and things like this.  

And   minor tweaks and adjustments to make it more active and social. I   when I was spending so much time learning languages,   just, you know, hold up in the house.   You know, that's the sort of thing where you can make it a little bit more active and going out to meet up things, which I did do. Yeah, that's one where I'm like, Alright, this one I've already ticked off. I don't don't need to really investigate this into. Yeah. This is an interesting one. This is a very interesting one. So I would say  

[00:39:48] Juan Granados:

it it depends around the typical consulting answer. But it depends because if you're if you're saying you optimize   again,   we're we're trying to answer the question of optimizing for a significant other or a partner or, you know,   hanging out with the other   sex.   I don't think you've ticked it.   I'd actually say you're in the extremes of like you're in a very hard position   where like you've talked about in the podcast, you have to go out and try to interact with people, chicks on streets,   at parks,   in events, going to something like that.   I would say actually by default and most people probably listening to this,   people say it's going to be in like,   social sports   or work.  

Now, Karen doesn't have the typical nine to five. No, no, absolutely not. I would actually say if you wanted to optimize   being around like   attractive females   and being in positions where you're always attracting,   Honestly, I'd say probably just getting a job   nine to five in a cafe   or   at a bar or just like a general   gig. You probably find a more easier route to   talking to a lot more females,   going out to events,   the general what people would imagine in a on a job lifestyle.   I'm almost no doubt that it would optimize more than what your current life is. But but see that's so that's why I'm trying to kind of define the difference because   honestly in lifestyle   or like the overall human   is slightly different to   the optimizing the lifestyle   or a partner or not, no, no, no, no partner, but just like to   be in relationships today. Like, it's very   different line. And again, this is why the answer is not   there is no one answer. Like, there cannot be one answer because everyone's got very different things. And it's not that   now in the position that Karen is in, you couldn't do that. Like you're doing that you're going on dates and whatnot. It's just if you were to optimize   exclusively for that, I think   your lifestyle   could change more to be more optimized.  

Then then obviously, they wouldn't be optimized for the other things and the other stuff that you want to do. I should clarify. So  

[00:42:03] Kyrin Down:

in his   portion about honest lifestyle,   it was not about   getting out there as much as you can, and putting yourself in front of them as much women   should have perhaps should have said this better. So the other stuff that I was reading back in the past the Rishi sort of stuff, that's what they were all talking about, like, okay,   optimizing your lifestyle for being just in contact with as many women as possible.   He was more saying,   okay,  

[00:42:31] Juan Granados:

the he was kind of saying then, okay, it's like live your life, whatever your life is that you want to live. Do that like it's aligned to it. Don't be like don't go out clubbing if that's not what you want to do. Yeah. And go  

[00:42:41] Kyrin Down:

100%.  

[00:42:42] Juan Granados:

Yeah. Then then it's not cool. Tick.  

[00:42:45] Kyrin Down:

And the,   you know, reasons why this is attractive is because you're not doing it for the women. You're doing it for yourself. Yeah. You're really into   handicrafts   and   model train sets and stuff like that. Yeah. You feel   free to do this. And funnily enough,   brings to mind the Have you seen the meme or the video from ages ago where it's like a little kid in his, in his house, parents next to him? I have no idea why this is getting filmed. And he's, he's got like a it's not even a model train set. I think it's a little carousel wheel and he goes, let's go.   I think he's Danish or, you know, European or something.  

And then he clicks a button and then you just see like this little carousel going around. Yep.   I saw like a follow-up video of him. And now he's like a DJ or something like this in a radio station. He's got like very pretty girl next to him. And he does the exact same thing where he's like, okay, let's go.   And this is one where you could say, okay, you know,   extreme   introverted hobby,   uncool, things like this. But   he translated it into something where it did put him into like contact with a female and and   has perhaps given him some status and things like this. So   this is probably more what Mark Manson is talking about, which is the   living your life so that you'll,   I guess, can look back on it without regret in terms of where you spent your time. Did you spend it doing the things that you really wanted to do? That's a high that's a really hard statement, though, because what if like  

[00:44:20] Juan Granados:

again, if you do a something that brings you a lot of joy or that you really enjoy,   but it reduces the Venn diagram of the percentage of you being able to get with   the broad amount of our population. Let's just say you go,   I'm a, I'm a nomad, but you don't really work and you really   like model train sets or   going after like literal birds and finding things. Yeah. And so the percentage of   females that potentially then are interested in that or that like will appreciate that and care to be around you maybe goes from 80% to two percent. Let's just say two percent.   Now let's say an aspect of you is, yeah, but you really want a partner, you really want a relationship,   but because of the way you're living your life,   that never eventuates. And so you 75 years old, still alone, you never found anyone.  

Do you at that point go, Oh, yeah, but it was worth it because I left my life.   But you didn't fulfill the relationship aspect. And like, I think that's a reality where   often, like often when I hear like the Mark Manson thing about yet but live your life and do the thing   all good and well, but what if you never achieved the one or two things that you still wanted to do, right? Or the relationship thing. Yeah. What if you say like, yeah, but I want a lifestyle where I don't work out and just a fat fuck and I just die. Yeah. Yeah. I disagree. I kind of go like, Well, no, shut the fuck up. That's kind of dumb. And I'm sure he'd disagree with that. And I'm sure in the book it says other things such as, you know, yes, you can be the engineer  

[00:45:44] Kyrin Down:

and you can  

[00:45:45] Juan Granados:

have an extreme hobby or something. But if it isn't putting you out with women, all right, you're going to have to make an effort to find another hobby to do a thing. So it's but but but to like now I'd say, again, we're going Karen. Karen, the lifestyle you're living is not in such a Venn diagram that you've got three potential females on Earth. It's like,   it's broadly like you've got enough   potential females, you know individuals that could be a partner. You're doing the lifestyle thing good because you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing the things you want and there's plenty of people who   are in circles that you're like interacting. Yeah, let's just say,  

[00:46:18] Kyrin Down:

you're spending 80% of your time doing   the thing that you want to do. And then 20% of the time, you're having to adjust it.   And you're still trying to make it fun and enjoyable for yourself. So it's not an absolute grind. AKA I'm never going to be   the out until 3AM type of guy   partying   in a club environment. I hate it. I'm not not a fan of that at all. And so   make sure you're not doing that just for   trying to attract them. So   jumping on to the next one here, which was honest   action,   which   was courage, essentially what it was all came down to. So   this one, this section was all about   really all about anxiety, overcoming fear.  

Most of it was related to   the I think the aspect of   just   talking with women in the first place, I think most people when they're in a conversation,   they're fine. You can still have aspects of anxiety related to like,   okay, like, how do I ask for the number? Or how do I go for a kiss? How do I escalate physically?   So,   you know, there's variations on all of those, but the main portion would just be   going from,   you know, completely   strangers to actually into a conversation.   This is the one where,   I felt a lot of affinity towards him, which was that I'm not naturally   super outgoing. And I think he himself said that he's pretty introverted   just by nature.  

And so you're you're   not in this kind of normal, gregarious   yet to even overcome like the conversation aspect, which is like, how do you fucking   structure a conversation? So it's not just a boring,   plain one, but actually has some, you know, how to flow it probably is is the best way of putting this.   And yet, for me, you know, that that was what just required just pure   immunity through   what   would you call it?   Desensitization,   just doing hundreds of approaches and eventually   all through the reps you can you can realize like, okay,   I know how to do this now. Like, I've just done enough times that   it's not completely stranger to me. But that doesn't mean that you   ever get rid of the fear. It's kind of always just a lingering thing. Neath the surface. He mentions this himself.  

And so, you know, this is something where,   for example, I'd give myself maybe a five out of 10 of this.   I've broken through the complete fear barrier. So I can go out and approach people and talk to girls who I don't know.   But it's still   not easy. It still requires   effort. And   there are still times where   I get in my own head too much. And   my main   probably guilt of this is   thinking   for them. Like, I'm going to say this and this is what they're thinking or this is the mood that they're thinking. Yeah, I getcha. Okay. And so   I will not do things to avoid what I think would be an inconvenience or,   you know, a bad thing or something like this.  

Whereas I have no idea if that's the case. And,   you know, maybe 1% of the time I'm right, but   99% of the time, I'm wrong.   Just   the default. So   I've an opposite observation from the last week, for example, was   I have been going out more,   and,   just putting myself in situations where I'll be able to,   interact with women. Sometimes this is like a bar setting. Sometimes it was just walking around a neighborhood, sometimes being in a shopping center. The times where it's been the easiest and less like that is where I would say it's like a I'm in like a fugue state is a zen like just okay, I'm just doing my thing. And then   if an idea pops into my head, I,   I,   I act on it. And this is like the action part of it, I guess, is what he's talking about, which is, yeah, you will need to   take the plunge   and do something. So I guess question for you have how would you rate yourself on this one where in terms of   nervousness   of approaching a girl in different environments   or something like this? Because I know for sure   that you're not perfect at this because,   I have seen you at times like in the past falter during the day, for example. I think it's probably natural for you. I would just probably say by default, I think it's it would have just  

[00:51:01] Juan Granados:

decreased or whatever the rating it might have been. Again, I think now   it would be a very different   state. I don't know what I'd bring it. Probably a six out of 10. Honestly, I'd probably say, whereas yeah, back in the day and again, situation dependent. Yeah, we'll be high, maybe eight out of 10. But when you're speaking of like the Zen like state, I specifically   remember,   especially in the scenarios or the areas where I was   confident and so the action could follow   it was just   like I was   zenning out I was just doing whatever I wanted basically again one of you ever see one in a nightclub doing this? It was a very memorable it was a memorable like   half hour stretch. I remember at one point back in the day where, again, there's nothing like crazy. It was just I was by   a bar, like we were there with a couple of work colleagues and we were having a drink or two. And I remember just for the fun of it being like, I'm just going to compliment,   and again, this is part of the Mark Manson maybe, I'm going to compliment genuinely   individuals. I guess this is like the subconscious piece. If I looked at it back now, again, people want to be complimented and people want to be like, seem like if you make someone seem interesting, they're gonna like that. So I'm consciously, I somehow was doing that in and not consciously trying to think about it. I was just like, oh, I'm just going to compliment and talk to basically everyone who I find interesting and pretty that was walking by. And I think it was like in a period of thirty minutes, like nine numbers.  

And I think I probably like 30 or 40 people literally in half an hour and it was just like bing bing bing bing bing. No, no, no, no, no. I remember people,   my work colleagues   at the time being like, what is going on? Like, this is absolutely insanity. But if I recall, then I go like, I was just like such a state of like, it doesn't matter what I do. Like I'm just going to do whatever comes to mind, whatever I feel like is a nice action to take. So I think by default, I had that probably higher. Now it's just it's again, it's a   partly as obvious nature, but part of it is just the muscle. Like I just   when you don't do it for a long time, the scale of it just goes down to it. So it's probably now at its default state it probably would be. It should be like six out of 10 for me. Okay. Yeah.  



[00:53:00] Kyrin Down:

In the book, in this section, he's got an example of a guy who a friend of his who would go around to girls and ask them, Hey, can I pee in your   butt? And that was his opening line.   And so of course, like, what kind of reactions are you going to get from this? Well, there's a lot of like, extreme, like, what the fuck, get away from me freak sort of thing.   But there's somewhere who would be like, that's funny. You're fucking crazy. And then, you know, he ends up with a girl and does well from that.   And obviously,   you know,   what is his reason for saying this?  

The one of the bigger, I guess, once again,   aspects where he draw he does draw aspects of game and psychology into it polarization.   You don't want   her or the other person   to just feel like you're   a gray. You're in the middle. You're just boring. Yeah, boring. But perfect way of saying it. It's either you you're trying to do something that will either get them to   you're not   is this is the whole point of game which is so tricky, which is like you're trying   to do things and get a reaction from them, but you're trying to make it natural as well. And   that's nice if you're natural.  

If you just by default do that. Yeah. Go go. You do have to add these little tips and tricks. Yeah, don't even use the word boring. I'll go like again,  

[00:54:28] Juan Granados:

attractiveness and the different qualities of what people then find attractive in the different areas. If you're just blamed or like the norm, if you like the general population where whether it's you or whether this other guy, this other guy, whether I'm at a sport or a bar or whatnot, I talk to this guy, this guy and it's kind of like same thing. That's blame. It's the same people are going to, you know, someone   five people approach her, five people approach him and they go say, you know,   how's your day? How's your day? How's that? Okay, boring. Blame. If someone says that you're going to get the, you're going to get the two extremes. You're going to get a reaction of like, what the hell? Go away from me. And you're going to get the like, oh God, at least this is different. Like, okay, cool. Let's progress that.   So to an obviously to an extent you can't go like insane levels, but   it's understandable why that one, I would get   better reactions than you would ever get from just straight up blind interactions. You'll get a reaction.  

You're going to get something.  

[00:55:19] Kyrin Down:

Yeah. Yeah. And   I was mentioning to Juan yesterday,   I've talked to a lot of Latinos over the last couple of years. And if I reflect on it, there's probably only been one or two who I really connected with in any shape or form where I was like, that was a really fun conversation   and enjoyed it. And when I reflect even further because we're talking in English.   And so what that tells me is that when I was speaking Spanish with all these people,   although I could try and tell some jokes, although I could try and do some things,   I feel like it's   impossible that all of them were   that   bland me mediocre. And so it was probably more   my like level of conversational skills   made it like that. Yeah, I couldn't progress it to something which was   more fun or flirty or interesting if I was talking to a guy because I would practice with guys and girls like didn't didn't really matter to me.  

And so that was kind of one of those ones where I'm like, Yeah, okay, you know what? I was doing zero   authorization when I was talking with any of them. It was simply like   the most mediocre conversations. And even though my skills could improve and I could talk about other types of things,   the   the wordplay, the tricks of language,   I simply just didn't have enough   skill to be able to do that. So   yeah, you can you can see   how that applies even in like another language. And that that has made me go, Yeah, you know what? Yeah,   boring conversations   is is ones to avoid. I got to I got to try and spice it up. That's that's why I even had was it in my monthly goals for this month where it was like have something. Yeah, it was have something,   Prep an interesting topic before going out to the world. So I could simply at the very least, by meet someone in the gym, which I do every day, there's all sorts of people there. Regulars   just have something   somewhat interesting to talk about. Oh, I found   a drone in the park. I did find a drone in the park.  

It's something it's something different. Oh, what the fuck? The other one as well. I think that  

[00:57:24] Juan Granados:

I think I haven't really seen it often be discussed, but I have seen it like in some books and whatnot is   because cause it kind of falls in the line with the self help is   if again, if you're out there and you kind of like, I don't know exactly how, like, how am I going to be doing? One thing is become   so obsessed   on the self,   not self help, but in like the self improvement on something that you care about to be so good that you are like at the top 1% of whatever the hell that is because in the Venn diagram of the opposite sex that actually cares for that or that, you know, that finds that attractive. You're there at the highest status of that particular level of whatever it is, right? Example, Akairin handstand like you spent a lot of time in handstand becoming quite good at handstands.   I'm sure if you find   someone an individual who kind of like is interested in that they'd go. Wow, this dude is like top level of this.  

That's going to give them, I'll take an extra couple of multipliers on the level.   Again, what examples that translate to when you're a bit younger, right? Again, it comes to like sports or intellect and all that. Just I can double down on becoming really good at something that you care about   and I believe you mean that will help you so much along the way of just being seen as again, higher status in whatever that pool it is that you're playing   and it's not that it's what ensues. You're not focusing on. Hey, how can I improve my status is hey, I really enjoy tennis? I really enjoy soccer or I really enjoy,   being fit. Cool.  

Push that as much as you can and elevate your game to as much as possible for the personal reason. And believe you me, that will ensue in giving you a higher status in that space   by default because you're just   being obsessed and passionate about something has attractive quality. And going back to attractive, if you have to ask someone who cares about handstands   and then it's like, hey, that guy is a shit of handsets and that guy is really good at handstands.   She's going to be attracted to the guy who's good at handstands just by default because she cares about it and there's attraction to that quality. And again, part of that is the confidence and the effort and blah blah blah blah. So yeah, one of the things that I've seldom   heard being talked about is just become really obsessed   about your passions, do that really well.  



[00:59:29] Kyrin Down:

And you will find some gravitation of people that come your way because of that. That probably plays into the meta of the the true confidence. He doesn't express it like that. But I think that would be   one way to get to true confidence in something which is Yeah, you are just so good at something and   you've passed the Dunning Kruger of   not of thinking that you're you're decent at it just because you simply don't know enough and now you're actually like more in the expert. So you've you've gone back to time to go back up. Yeah, your confidence matches your actual skills at something. Yeah. So that's that's certainly a good way of trying to do that.   Last topic here, honest communication.  

And  

[01:00:08] Juan Granados:

this section was him talking about I dominate this, by the way. I'm   beyond the 10 out of 10 on this sort of shit. Absolutely. And I am a sub dominant on this. I'm negative two. Nah, I'll give myself a two, which is If it has to be said, I stole a mate's fine. I stole Joey's fine.   Way back in the day, in half an hour managed some insane things on his phone. Chat chatting with a girl. Chatting with a girl. And this is just half hour taking someone else's   complete perspective  

[01:00:36] Kyrin Down:

and achieving which is very, very impressive because the   I mean, I guess   that was,   you know, internet, internet dating. So Joey had never talked to this person before.   So she had no reason to have reset. Correct. So so she just assumed that this was him actually talking.   The I guess the whole   aspect of this, which was   what   are you if you are playing tricks and tip, if you are playing the games,   what kind of person are you going to meet doing this as well? And   this is where he's getting more into, okay, you know, if you're a man, yes. The visual aspect is 90%   of 100% of the   straight attractions straight away. And you have to be the one making the moves. This is this is just, you know, wired into our biology.  

Unfortunately, for people like me who don't like being as assertive as one as unnecessarily   assertive,   this is one where I've, I've, you know, I've had to make severe effects over a long period   to become more assertive.   And   the   I guess meta was, you know, if she's the type of girl who likes to play games, and you're playing games with her, that can kind of work, but then you're just ending up with this, you know,   dishonest communication between two people because you're both trying to fucking play games.   When there's like a mismatch on either way.  

You can get some results but   the   in terms of like actually   sleeping with them, but you know, are you actually   attracting them? Or is this just kind of like a false,   like,   attraction?   It's   like you're trying to cover up   deficiencies in yourself by doing these random things like nagging a girl like making her feel bad.  

[01:02:27] Juan Granados:

Or Yeah, and I think and I think that that lands at like,   the use of your language and tone and   body language or whatever, whatever it may be. I think it's   very dependent on the   level of game that it is that you want to play. And what I mean by that is it a very short term game, very different. Like there's obvious differences that you do that versus   a long term relationship or not even like let's not talk it's not even like relationship,   like a work person, right? It's like a work person. If you're interacting with someone at work,   you should and there is very   varying ways that you might interact with someone who is that you don't know and you're not going to have much of an interaction with. It's just like a one off transactional thing   versus someone who you're trying to create some power wins or better relational structure because you need them to do x y zed over the next seventeen months, whatever. Very different, right? And again, the way they use your language and your tone and stuff like that,   all super different.  

To give you like a super, super clear example,   someone recently that I just had to interact to get some sort of information from them. It's a   slightly professional, very easy, a little bit of fun. Get the answer. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Bang. There's nothing else. There's nothing to play around. But if it's someone that I need to have a positional power over or to get them to do something else and you know, this is where some people might call it like, it's hard manipulation,   not so much because it comes from a more honest perspective. Like if you had that to ask me, it would be very easy for me to say. It's like, I don't know, you want to kind of understand them a little bit, help understand   the day to day or the challenges and whatnot because you also want to both help them out in the week to week to do certain things, but then you also have the influence of like, okay, cool, I know you have to do this because of whatever and then choosing how you do that. And it's more about like knowing, but again, the comms are very different. So   when it comes into now relationships or sexual interactions or something else,   very easy if you're optimizing for like, well, it's just a one night or a short term thing.  

Of course, at that point,   neg for your life, you want variability,   you want the extremes, you want them to seem like really interested, you want fast movements   versus someone who you're trying to maybe build something up with, which again it might be, you know, you might begin at that point and then it starts transitioning when you know them.   But it's more about knowing the human, knowing the back and forth. You'll end up finding some mutual point of where the, you know,   the jokes that you tell, you know, what what this person like, you know, dark humor, not dark humor, like that level of how far do they push it? All that stuff is things that you like push the boundaries with and in communications.   One thing I remember you saying a long time ago is like, yeah, you're in like   the back and forth chat. You want to kind of get it to like, no, it's   to get it to like the next meetup and whatnot. Or by text, by text, right? And again, I'm not saying if I can waste your time on a thousand messages when, yeah, you wanna be like sure, sharpen and make the movement.  

But again, it's like kind of just very, very dependent on the on the human and the individual that you're interacting with and what it is that they   find a good level of interaction versus not a good level of interaction.   And interestingly enough, I guess, you know, as much as that, I would say like, oh, here's some examples of like in my past, that was probably the big one where I think it's evolved so much again with technology   that I honestly wouldn't say that there's any confidence we both could give of anyone who's young because I couldn't tell you if it's mostly like   Snapchat type video. Is it videos? Is it like through a platform? Is it through fucking Discord channels? I don't know what the best way is when you're like a younger individual back in the day or like now, and especially like fucking whatever ten, fifteen years from now. But I think it still dominates the idea of, yep, you have to know what you're kind of optimizing for in the comms space. Is it short chart transaction or short short chart fun? Or is it building the report, building the like the community, the environment, how you like had that conversation.  

Superbly different. Intent is the probably. Twenty ten. Yeah, it's good. So what's the intent of it? Much like  

[01:06:23] Kyrin Down:

there's a very subtle difference between gambling, speculation and investment.   As you were describing with your work, there's a very subtle difference between,   helping someone   persuasion   and manipulation,   and they can all look very, very similar.   But the I guess intent behind it is like, are you actually trying to help this person? Are you,   you know, doing this for your own personal gain or are you doing this to make them lose or something like, you know?   And this was probably the overall thing of his talk about communication, which is,   if you're going up to them   and you're skirting around certain issues like sexuality   or you're uncomfortable with sexuality   or being sexual,   you're uncomfortable   around certain topics. If   you have   these feelings of inferiority   because of   a certain job that you're in or how you look or whatever it is,   the   purest form of it, the most honest form of it is   in his mind the best form and even if that   results in   lesser,   you know, attraction   resulting from us. Yeah, better that than better that than faking something and then having to keep it up. Correct. And then and then eventually ending up with someone who you're having a miserable time with and things like this. So   you know, this, this is probably the the trickiest one for me, because it's   the   how much do   you analyze versus not analyze certain things. So like I mentioned, you know, scaring girl from the front is not   from behind is not a good thing to know that's a poor method of communication.  

So you you got to fix that. So it's like, okay, obviously,   I have to make some changes to my behavior,   or think strategically   so that I don't do that to someone.   You can then take that to the extreme where you try and map out an entire conversation.   And you're, you know, saying certain lines which you think would trigger certain things from her. And then if she says this, then you say this. And there are books on game which go into all of this. Like, it's it's almost like here's how to have the perfect conversation to get her back to your place or something like this. Yeah. Yeah. Which is and I think it's  

[01:08:44] Juan Granados:

a simple statement because I was going to say as well, even again, imagine yourself and you go, Yep, you found a partner. Awesome. And everything works well and the communication   establishes and you can get things change at one year, things change at three years, things change at five years, things changes, the phases of life go through. You got to adapt the communication style changes. It all changes, right? And if you're not willing to adapt it, then you're fucked. You're like absolutely fucked because the other person will change, right? That's just by default.   Things will change. They're not going to just stay the absolute same. I think it's often the case when, you know, you'll hear the default is again males to females. Then you go, oh, you know, when a female talks to you, when they try and tell you something, it's often   the male will fuck up by trying to fix it for them. It's too literal. You know, we take it too literal. Yeah. The villain will be like, you know, and and the guy will try to be like, you know, you could fix it by doing this. Now, some of the tips then they get shared. It's like, no, they don't want that. They want you to, you know, just listen and be inquisitive from other   motherfuckers sometimes they also don't want that either. Right? And it's like if you don't have enough reps to read the individual and to know the human, if you know that for a long time, obviously it's easier.  

But if it's fresh interaction, whether it's work or relationship, whatever, if you don't have the reps to read the human, read the individual as they're interacting, then you're fucked. Because sometimes   someone might come to you and say something   and actually do one.   And, you know, you could get to the literal of being like, Hey, do you want me to answer? Do you want me to just listen? Sometimes you can do that. Sometimes you gotta   read the human, do it by reps and being like, You know what? Again, we don't we don't do this as consciously, but as humans, we subconsciously go like, Okay. You know,   99 times out of a 100 females that come to me when they say this, they get angry when I try and give them, okay, I probably won't. But let's say maybe there's one or five times they're actually like really desperate and they're really sad and they communicate in this way. They actually want me to step in and do something. Okay, you got to know that. But again, kind of like   the whole point of this thing is like, you're not going to know that until you go through the reps of doing that so many times where you do have the data set to be able to go like, Okay, I do know when that happens, or I don't know when that happens. And sometimes it's better to not be with someone where you are  

[01:10:53] Kyrin Down:

trying to do something which you you can't do.   One of my exes, I feel I remember it was like I was I needed to be a mind reader to to really   be able to communicate with her effectively.   And I'm not a mind reader. Like, that's not one of my skills of being able to understand   this one in a thousand time you're trying to say this or this other time you're   on this variation because you're feeling this and you're trying to say this way. Like, I need it much more literally. And so that   honestly, it was   never going to work out if I if I think of it and really go like, okay, that   or maybe it could have, but we would have had to have done a whole lot of work   to really find a suitable middle path for the both of us. So yeah, it's, it's tricky. You know, for me, when I think of this   expressing intent, sexuality, body language, eye contact, I struggle with smiling   With eye contact is something I struggle with broaching hard topics, awkward conversations,   all of these sorts of things. It's like,  

[01:11:58] Juan Granados:

I know I'm not great at it. It's simply just not my wheelhouse to I'm definitely very sadistic when it comes to that. You're sadistic. Like I'm sadistic in a sense of like, you know, someone was like, if someone was like, yeah, like if someone was,   partly confrontational,   partly, you know, making fun again, I'm the I'm the guy who's standing on the side of the road and I'm there with my wife and we had like, my wife's just friend and with the kids and cars were going by and I was fucking waving to them shouting hello. I'm not I'm that person.   I'm even the person you'll you'll like this. I'll I won't disclose too much information just in case, but,   recently, one of my daughter's events, I won't say what it was, but her daughter then, you will know because it's on Saturday mornings.  

Two parents almost got into a fight, into an actual bonafide fight.   And again, there's not about like sexual and whatnot, but it's just a part of me was the more relaxed,   data being like, okay, I'll just I'll be here with my daughter. We'll kind of like separate and let it happen.   Part of me was the default to this iguana being like, I want to get into this confrontation. Like I want to get into here and do this.   So yes, by default, there's some sadistic,   crazy part of me that like, you know, if you say like the, you know, looking people in the eye and whatnot, again, it's like the,   you know, when you go to events and people look into each other's eyes and it's like, oh, that's a good tough thing. I would, man, it wouldn't be like,   it'd be weird,   but I wouldn't, I would almost see it as like a challenge. Like, I'm not going to blink. I'm not going to stare at like look away until this person like stops. I would find that interestingly fun. Not like maybe other people would be like, oh, man, I'm a bit like scared by that. Sam Harris talked about how he used to do play that game in the New York subways, and he would look at people and there would be certain types of people who he would just get into a staring match with.  



[01:13:44] Kyrin Down:

And he described them as psychotic or, you know, playing a game of some sort.   I guess he himself is also he framed it as an experiment. So like he's doing a demo. So he's yeah. So he's off off on the on the clear. But that is certainly one. Yeah, even just I tried to do it yesterday. It's going to be my month of goals for next month, which is walking around the shopping center. And I was trying to look people in the eyes and   maintain eye contact. And it's just very uncomfortable.   For me. I really dislike it. It's just  

[01:14:17] Juan Granados:

some something about it. And I don't particularly want to do it. Like I was gonna say, I don't particularly want to do it. How about having the need to do it, then I will do it. But it's like, not an absolute thing that I want to do. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Like, I'm not psychotic in the way of like, I I eyeball everyone who's like walking back now. Yeah. But you you'd certainly do it more than myself, which is just I  

[01:14:37] Kyrin Down:

if if I'm I would probably be perfect in New York City, because there's so many people there that you can't do it. So if people are doing that, then they're the weird ones. I would I would fit in well in New York City.  

[01:14:49] Juan Granados:

Or perhaps like a country town where, you know, everyone. So therefore you. Can you can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of moves to New York. That's the next episode.  

[01:14:58] Kyrin Down:

God,   please. No, please. No. So yeah. Look, I think that's mostly it for   for this episode.   You know,   it was an okay book. It was an okay book. There was still some random stuff, like at the end he then goes into,   okay, here's some steps you can take, like more actionable stuff. And it was pretty much purely game things.   You know, complete three of these five before you move on to the next one. And it was like, yeah, talk to girl on the street.   You know, get her number go to the gym, blah, blah, blah. Okay, next one.   Get three numbers in a day.  

Kiss a girl on the same day that you met her or the same night that you met her. And it's just like, Okay, well,   this is very game like,   this is Mark Manson. This, you know what my like, my  

[01:15:47] Juan Granados:

if I try to capsize, what would be my like feedback? You know, I'm thinking like my daughters, I'm thinking, you know, all of this sort of thing. I kind of go   be like   when you and there's more like attributed obviously when you're younger, but it could apply when you're a bit older. I just go   forget, like, forget anything relationship wise, forget anything like short term or long term games.   Just focus on all the productive   generators, which is like follow your passion, do all the good things, go through routines, whatever,   and just put yourself in positions where there is a larger Venn diagram of humans that you can interact with.  

And at a certain threshold and percentage of time when you get through, like, again,   I wouldn't probably say this, the status of them, but be like, yeah, when you get to a high enough level in the status game, it just comes by default. There's more probability that you're going to just find those types of individuals that also care about that. And at that point, once you've got the confidence, because you are good at that, you can kind of step forward and start doing bit more,   different things. And at the beginning, you really probably wouldn't have been able to do in the first place. But because you have the confidence of,   again, much easier for you as a good handstand that if someone else was doing some handsets near you   relatively easier to have a conversation around like what you do or if they ask you questions, I'm completely comfortable  

[01:16:59] Kyrin Down:

going up to a random person,   random situation. And   I feel zero  

[01:17:06] Juan Granados:

anxiety about that. But but if if you were next to them on Olympic lifting platform and they were doing snatching or they were doing clean and jerk technique and like moving, it's it's slightly different for you to go up to them and kind of like have a conversation in relation to that. Yeah, there might be more general confidence, but specific to that, it's a bit more difficult. So I think that my general tendency would be   just   double down on the being, you know, work on yourself and like the passions and the things that you care about. I mean, and you can work on confidence and speech and all that. You can do that, to a point that then it's just not a   roadblock to then having those conversations.  



[01:17:39] Kyrin Down:

The last thing that has this book's inspired me to do is   I have never read a women's version of this, which is   the woman's had it had a like attract your   attract a man, that sort of thing. I   it won't be helpful in a sense in that I'm not trying to attract men. Sorry, sorry, all the men out there. You're not you're not getting there. But what is what is helpful is to understand the other foot? Well, I think the yes, in a certain to a certain extent.   And also the observations that they make about how males   respond, which is probably something that goes over my head or that I don't think about, which is in this book, I think a female could read this and then there'd be certain sections where it's like, you know, if you're acting,   you're interacting with her this way and she says this or then, you know, if you respond like this and she does this,   You know, perhaps even the   aspect of scaring her, for example,   from coming up from behind, that might not be something that they realize is a complete   something that would turn them off from a guy instantly   if that happened.  

And, you know, like, maybe they work in a Halloween store where customers are randomly jumping out on or something, you know, but stretching it a bit here, but   the aspect of what they   how they say men respond to certain things, That could be a real insight, which I'd never really thought of before. So I'm going to try and find some some of those types of books and get the  

[01:19:12] Juan Granados:

the female Yeah, perspective. Yeah, for sure. I think that could be intriguing. Yeah, I think on some of the longer term games as well, when it comes to communication,   it it's worth knowing   just the general tendency or trend of   and we're talking male to female. So the female mind and   how they might   interact or see challenges or see wins because it's very   different in some ways, not always been some ways to the male mind. Right. And again, when you if someone discusses like, you know, whatever, you're after a marathon or you're trying to do some other type of fitness related thing, it's not   exactly the same in the female. And again, you can ask them that and some will be, but some are very different. And again, when it comes through the evolution of,   you know, having babies or going through the workforce and what they've, you know,   the normal default way   that males might put themselves in, oh, no, I deserve more, I should get more versus the female not wanting that or like kind of being opposed to that in a general sense. It's like, it's good to know those things because they might   apply in just everyday conversations where, you know, it's likely again, I'm generalizing here, but it's quite likely that if something needs to be, someone has to be confronted about something, let's just say it's at a coffee shop and someone didn't do something. I'm will tell you, the female probably wants a male to do that. The female doesn't want to do that, right? So it's just that the power dynamics and if you're the default type of guy that's quite shy, quite reserved and you want to do that, well, tough fucking cookies.  

You're just in the law of Venn diagram then of people who can expect that. Right? So there's little things like that, that just as a human growing up in the societies and society that I'm talking about here is like a general Western. This might not be the same in all cultures.   You've got to find those things out. You've got to go like, yep. Those are like the little one or 2% that really count. But again, you're not going to find them until you do the reps. Like, if you're living again on a rouge free forum or a forum, trying to learn all this,   Good fucking luck. Like you're probably going to get some levels of percentage wins and maybe some text game and stuff like that. Then when he comes into real world and real interactions,   yeah, long term of that, that's going to be a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. This book was probably also  

[01:21:17] Kyrin Down:

just aimed in general at a later   I think he wrote this when he was 26.   I think that's what I worked out.   And I get the feeling it was largely aimed at   people older than   25.  

[01:21:34] Juan Granados:

If I had to guess, well, maybe, maybe, maybe early twenties, but certainly not like teenagers. And again, just the other thing about reps is that you also then learn what is attractive to the people that you want it to be attractive to. Right. If you have feathered quads, you're not attracting females.   What is What is Feathered quads. Feathered quads. So you gotta get into the bodybuilding   lingo. Feathered quads is like when you're super shredded and when you squeeze   your your like legs out. Yeah. You see the striations of the muscle. That's called feathered, feathered quads. Right? If you have feathered quads, you're you're attracting guys, man. That's like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're saying guys. Some maybe an infinitesimal amount of like females. Right? If you got a fucking, you know,   whatever. A Ferrari, a Bugatti, a whatever or like a unique type of one. Again, it's largely males. Yeah. There's again some females out in relation to that. Fine.  

If it's something like,   I don't know, sprinting or tackling or rugby league or something like again, it's just this particular things that are attractive to mostly probably the other people that you want that you think it is gonna be attractive to. Right? Like, if you if you rock up with feathered quads to the wrong club,   okay, there's probably gonna be some, but some of them don't give a fuck. Right? In general, there's an attractiveness. So what is attractive? It's like the things I'm one of the things that we were talking about, but it's the confidence to speak or to be able to be, you know, upfront and have the confrontation,   the slight confrontations that make it happen.  

And there's some general   things that are seen as attractive that I reckon you would just completely miss because they go like, oh, well, you know, I'm gonna be really attractive if I if I   get feathered quads. It's like man, you could have just probably if you get feathered quads to be attractive to a female, like you're doing it right. You should have there's so many other ways you could have been generally more attractive to a female. That's okay. Same with money. Money, right? Money can bring you attraction   for sure at a like a certain level   until it kind of pass a particular barrier. And then if you're missing all the general stuff, there's only so much of the game that you're gonna get through. Like, yes, probably short term game you're gonna get fined through. A longer term game, it's it's again, the realization that people get to of her, like, you know, I think, another another thing Chris Williamson was saying was, like, you know, there's once you become, like, a millionaire, someone, like, give you a message or call you up to be, like, hey.  

Are you a millionaire? Make sure you, like, say do a podcast or or tell people that, like, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. It's like no fucking no one does that. You just kind of realize when you have money that you go, actually it's not that much different to have two Y's or five to X's. It's actually it didn't solve all of my problems. It solved money problems, but it doesn't solve problems. Same thing. It's like having money gives you money boosts, but it doesn't give you the whole way of long term relation. It doesn't fix your communication and your confidence and stuff like that. I know   multimillionaires   like   nine figures? Nine figure people that man fucking suck here that conversation and confidence of that suck. I know people earning 8 figure   per year   and like I could run rings around them in terms of conversation. But, you know, the skill sets have gotten them and luck and   passion and fucking energy have just gotten them to certain things. So you don't get that by fucking default. Right? You got the money as well. Yeah. So watch out for that. There you go. Meanwhile, I think we'll leave it there. I don't know if there's any other comments in the YouTube they want to target, but appreciate all those who have been live talking about females and confidence. Woman,   we'll leave it there. Really much appreciate it. Again, we're live on 9AM. It is the October 19. So come and join us in the next Sunday conversation as well. We'll do so at 9AM.  

For now, me and more, let's be well wherever you are in the world. Be a little bit kinder where you can. Juan out. Darren out.   Dude.