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Can Bitcoin Really Support Musicians? 

• Did you know that musicians on Spotify get paid anywhere between 0.003¢ or 0.005¢, so less than half a penny every single time a song gets streamed? So think about that. You'd have to get a 100,000 plays just to make $100. That's ridiculous
• From playing in a punk band as a kid to becoming a tech entrepreneur and eventually integrating Bitcoin into his music career. 
• We explore the concept of value for value and how platforms like Wave Lake, Nostr, and Fountain are revolutionizing the way artists and content creators get paid. 
• The Higher Low explains how these platforms allow fans to directly support artists with small Bitcoin transactions, bypassing traditional gatekeepers like record labels and streaming services.
• We also touch on the future of music and streaming services, discussing whether platforms like Spotify and Tidal will adopt Bitcoin and value for value models. 
• Importance of having multiple revenue streams and engaging with fans in a more meaningful way.
• If you're a musician or content creator looking to learn more about integrating Bitcoin into your workflow, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice. Enjoy!

"The Higher Low freaking rocked our NOSTR Satoshi Rockamoto party in Riga. Super catchy acoustic punk tunes about the Bitcoin culture! It was an awesome way to kick off the party. I highly recommend booking him to play at your Bitcoin conference. The dude is rad and does not disappoint." - Mike Jarmuz, Managing Partner, Lightning⚡️Ventures.

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[00:00:01] Unknown:

Hey, guys. Did you know that musicians on Spotify   get paid   anywhere between 0.003¢   or 0.005¢,   so less than half a penny   every single time the a song gets streamed. So think about that. You'd have to get a 100,000,   plays just to make a $100. That's ridiculous. And so what's really neat about my next guest and Bitcoin and value for value   is it's giving artists, podcasters, creatives all over the world another opportunity to have a revenue stream   that is set by the users.   So instead of just a standard fee that Spotify gives or Apple or YouTube or any of these other massive platforms which are beneficial and great, it gives it puts the the control back into   the hands of the users. So tune in with the high or low for this great episode.  

Hey, aloha. Get ready for an epic episode. And if you love it, please share it. You know why? Because you got the love. Enjoy, my friends.   Hey. Aloha, Love Tribe. Welcome to Bitcoin for Peace. I have somebody here with me who is rocking stages all over the world, and he is helping everybody understand what value for value is and learning about Bitcoin through music. Welcome, the higher low. What's up, brother?  

[00:01:46] Unknown:

Doing great. Great to be here, and nice to meet you virtually after we met in person in Madeira.  

[00:01:52] Unknown:

Yeah. Madeira. Oh my god. What'd you think about Bitcoin Atlantis?  

[00:01:56] Unknown:

Fantastic conference. Really, really up there with the best, 100%.  

[00:02:00] Unknown:

Seriously. It was pure signal. It was pure good energy.   Obviously, the location was insane. Holy cow.   How did you like performing there? Did you have a good set? Were you happy?  

[00:02:12] Unknown:

I was happy. It was like highlight of the high or low career so far because it was like a professional   real festival with like a big stage and   backstage and everything, you know? And normally I'm used to playing in like kinda low key environment. So for me, that was just fantastic.  

[00:02:29] Unknown:

That's amazing. I know. It feels like and especially when you've got so many people who are supporting you that are Bitcoiners that are like, fuck yeah. Let's go.   I bet that felt really, really powerful and positive.  

[00:02:40] Unknown:

Indeed. Indeed.  

[00:02:42] Unknown:

And so okay. Well, let's talk. Let's let the audience know who you are, what's your scoop, what's your mission, what's your music, and then we can, we can talk about Spotify and value for value and everything. But let's, let's let everybody know about who you are and why you're here.  

[00:02:56] Unknown:

Okay.   So I kind of, started   playing in a punk band as a kid,   being a skateboard kid, you know, 15, 16 year old long long time ago.   And then, that was a hobby that stayed. Throughout my life. That band Fumble is still ongoing, and and we toured around the world and and and made made albums,   and,   Eva got one of our songs in the   American TV series,   the,   law and order, especially victims unit. One of the episodes starts with one of the fumble songs. So Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. So I had a lot of fun with that project.   And then because of my work, I used to I started traveling to the Middle East for business trips, like, 5 5 years ago.  

And then,   during the weekends, I had not not much to do, and I could kind of, flip the coin like net Netflix binge or do something creative. And I started, playing with acoustic guitar, writing songs from my, like, for my proper band. But then at some point, I was also like, hey. I'm so into this Bitcoin culture thing. Maybe   I could, try to do some, like, snack size. I mean, the digital age, and I hope it helps the world.   And then wrote some songs and finally got the courage to,   put one song out there. It was, like, 2022,   January. I made a video. I put, like, a on a balcony, I had a laundry rack, and I put a GoPro on top of it. And I was just, like, moving my hands and my lips   while my song played in background. So very low key.  

I started reading releasing songs. And then 1 year after, the awesome people behind the, mass adoption festival, freedom festival in,   the   US. They contacted me and thought, we found one of your songs really cool. You wanna come to our podcast? And I went there, and then through the podcast, they were like, well, we're gonna have our first event in the summer, in Boston. So would you like to come and play? And I was like, okay. I'll do it. And that's how it started. I went there to play. I met some cool organizers like Liz from,  

[00:04:57] Unknown:

from Huddl win there. Liz. Yeah. Liz is the best.  

[00:05:00] Unknown:

So then one thing led to another. And, since then, I've been playing probably in, like, well, way over 10   events around the world. So US, couple of times, UK, Thailand,   Lithuania,   Madeira,   Vietnam, like, lots of places. And then now I'm going to to Prague next week and even play Czech Republic. Yeah. Oh my god. So much FOMO.  

[00:05:25] Unknown:

What's been your favorite place to play so far?  

[00:05:28] Unknown:

That's a really, really hard one. Really, really hard one. So so many awesome   awesome experiences.   I'd say for the overall setup and the the, you know, beauty of the location and the kind of professionalism of the organizers, everything, Madeira obviously wins that game. Yeah. But then maybe, like, the craziest and most fun party, probably the, bodyguard departure last last September in Oregon. That was Mhmm. The way out there. So so Mike Jarmus Mike Jarmus, Muzz, said that, you know, you are quite a rock star rocking the Satoshi Rakamoto.  

[00:06:01] Unknown:

And, I love his comments. I love Mus and everything he's up to. So how was that was that must have been super fun over there.  

[00:06:08] Unknown:

That was super fun and, also, like, Mus kind of gets my background because I'm a bit older guy and and, like, my influences come from that, like, nineties classic, like, you know, underground punk bands that most people don't even know about. But when I started talking about my, like,   influences, he knew almost all the bands. Like, yeah, I know this band. I know this band. I know this band. So, like, he kinda gets it. So I'm I'm very, very, very grateful for all his support. And let's say that, I might appear in some of the his events in the future as well. Are you gonna do Satoshi Rakimoto in Prague?  

[00:06:41] Unknown:

I might. I might. I might. Well, we'll see about that, but, looking looking interesting. Alright. Cool. You got it. Are you coming to Nashville? Take it up. I'm not gonna be in Nashville?  

[00:06:50] Unknown:

Yes. 100%.  

[00:06:51] Unknown:

Oh, great. Okay. Good. Me too. Yeah. So we'll be rocking there too.   Yeah. This is gonna be great. Well, let's talk about your Bitcoin journey and how it maybe is a little bit different than most other artists and musicians and why, you know, Bitcoin has been influential in your your, you know, value for value and what's like let's explain to the audience if people don't know what is value for value and why Bitcoin is helping artists and musicians. And,   yeah.  

[00:07:16] Unknown:

Yeah. So so aside from, like, being like a punk rock musician all my life,   after university, I ended up in the tech industry as a start up entrepreneur. So I've I've been just one company after another, building companies. And then I had a period where I was doing music startups. So I had actually a   company called Play My Song together with with my my cofounder   that was doing, like, a mobile 2 box application in 2011, 2013.   During that time, I lived in the US. I lived in New York and San Francisco,   and I was, like, very close to where all the early Bitcoin meetups were happening. But Cool. I was I was very happily kind of unaware of everything.   Only later on, I realized that there was kind of happily, like, 2 blocks away from where I was staying.  

And then I came back to Finland, 2013   ish, and then,   went back to one of the companies I founded. And and then we acquired a small team, really talented developers, and they joined us. And they actually were, like, full on Bitcoin people.   So so then,   that was in 2016.   And then after a year of, like, hearing a lot about it and see them, like, coding with the Bitcoin price chart always, like, in in one one side of their screen, I was like, well, I guess I guess I'll dip in a little bit and see what it is. And then that's how it started.   Always viewed Bitcoin as, like, the number one number one thing. But being a tech entrepreneur,   I then   wanted to see if, you know, blockchain could do other things.  

So I went to blockchain conferences and, like, learned about, you know, Ethereum and so on. But I have to say   after maybe 1 to 1 1 year doing that, I I started noticing that the only people that kind of felt trustworthy in these events were, like, the full on Bitcoin people. And the other people   I always got this little shady feeling that, like, are they really serious seriously, like, trying to help the world or trying to help themselves? You know? Yeah.   And then, eventually, like, around 2019,   twenties, around that time, I was, like, topped everything else and just went full on to Bitcoin, and we're very happy with that choice.  

[00:09:24] Unknown:

It's amazing. And then let's so let's talk about, like, how are you integrating Bitcoin? Like, so for folks who are listening who might not understand   what are Zaps, what's value for value, what's Noster, what's Wave Lake, what are all these platforms and tools and protocols that are available   to musicians, to podcasters,   to article writers, to, you know, filmmakers, whatever. Can you help people understand what is value for value and how you've been integrating it with, with your process as a musician?  

[00:09:52] Unknown:

100%.   So   traditionally,   music business has been, like, completely controlled by so called gatekeepers.   So it could be the record labels. It used to be the, you know, the managers.   It used to be the, you know, the venues.   They were always kind of filtering who could get in into this little game of of, like, being successful in music. Yeah. And and and there have been multiple attempts in in kind of democratizing   it somehow, the building systems where where, like, the the artist can go straight to the fan and and so on. You know, MySpace was an early example where where like 2016   fans were able to get like tens of thousands of fans just by like clicking clicking a button. So that was like the first wave of artists using tiki digital technology to kind of, you know, circumvent the kind of old old way.  

But there was no real business model there. You know? After you click those 1,000 fans,   then that's it. You know? Maybe they listen to you a couple of times, and then after 50,000 other artists do the same thing, then you're, like, kinda diluted in the whole thing. You know? Right. So it remained that then you you had to put your music to YouTube. You had to put your music to Spotify. You had to be successful there. And, again, there's the gatekeepers that, you know, first of all, you know, kinda curate who gets the exposure and then keep most of the money as well. So now with Bitcoin, especially with Lightning Network, that allows these instant,   basically free transactions that can be as tiny as, like, 1 1 cent,   or even smaller,   that can be basically   sent instantly   by anyone, anywhere.  

It has opened a completely new game. So so anywhere from   from, Wavelake, which is a great great,   music discovery and and music player service where artists like me can just put their music in, and then people can listen to it. And voluntarily, if they like it, they can just click a heart and then, you know, few satoshis, which is like 1,000,000 of a Bitcoin, will be sent to me directly to me and no middlemen   in between. So this is really great example how this works. But then there are other ways as well. You know, you have, Nostr, which is   a completely   open source,   like a freedom tech alternative to, let's say, Twitter.  

There, when you do something interesting, people can reward you by   sending   so called zaps for you. So few satoshis can be, you know, 1 torsi or it can be, you know, 1,000,000 of tors, which is actually a lot of money. So it's basically after the people much they send. And then another way it it it can be helpful in in in doing, like, do it yourself music project like I do. So when I play a show somewhere, I can just put a QR code behind me and and say that, you know, you wanna support my work, just send the code, and you can send me a couple of sessions. And   for me, because it's a hobby, I'm not really, like, expect to make a living out of this, but but it's wonderful feeling when I play a show and I see, okay. I got, like, you know, a few 1,000 sats. Or if I, put, like, some nice share my new song in, Nostra, I get, some sats. It's a great feeling. I also feel like the people kind of really value what you offered to them because they were,   they decided part from tiny bit of their, like, well earned Bitcoin. So it is a really great thing. And and and at this point where it is so early, like, Nostra is still early, Wave Luck is early,   zaps are early, everything is early.  

So it's a great complementary thing. So if you want to kinda really build a career for music, you have to be active in Spotify in you, but you have to get those, you know, maybe Instagram if you're like a visual person. You have to get all those kind of traditional channels   going, but   yet supplemented with these value for value things. So just have it takes 5 minutes to set up these profiles, put your music there. You have it there, and there's always a way for your fans to kinda review instantly. And it's just a wonderful addition. And then over time, I think it's gonna flip. You're gonna the flipping is not gonna happen between Ethereum and Bitcoin, but it's gonna happen between, like, value for value and gatekeepers in music. The flippening will happen at this point. Maybe it take 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, but, you know, the trend is is is going to direction. And the faster any artist jumps into this, there's nothing tools to by by adding this technology.  

[00:14:18] Unknown:

Then you are gonna be, like, you can, in that case, right away when the kind of big masses come. You know? Yeah. It's nicely ahead of the curve, and I think you're right. I do believe that, like, this is going to be another   air and a wave of the future. Haute, like, right? But   it's I think it's important though as any artist, any creator, anybody who's out there, like, to have multiple streams of income and revenue and multiple channels where your audience might live. And I think also with,   with the value for value model, like, here, you can see that you've got,   you know, 34,000 sats on this song that people have been streaming. You've been zapping it. It's so cool.  

And, you know, that's   real instead of like you said, if you just hit heart, heart, heart, you're not really putting your your money or that's where your mouth is. But when you're truly voting with your stats that, hey, I really like you, I support you, whether, like, it's 1 sat or a1000000 like you said,   people, you know, you start to really feel like, woah. Okay. This this is good track. I should keep making more of these versus, like, this one's not giving me any sats. Nobody likes this one. You know? And so I think from a creative level,   it's it's instant truth and feedback on, you know, your audience and the people that, you know, wanna keep supporting you. So has it shifted your,   your creative process in any way, like when you see that you're getting more attraction on one song or one style versus another?  



[00:15:42] Unknown:

That's a great point.   Definitely, it it influences a little bit. Actually, when you see that, you know, you do especially if you do a song that is kind of   different from your norm normal kind of style. And then if you see a nice reaction that you actually get many more sats for this song than the other ones, then maybe think about maybe I'll do more songs about with with this kind of style in the future. So it it's it's a   very strong signal from the audience   that can kinda guide you in a very real way  

[00:16:13] Unknown:

because it's they actually parted from their money to kind of tell me that they like this. And have you so with Nostra or Wave Lake or any of the the ways that you're getting your music, are you putting your stuff up on fountain also? Like, does your music go over to fountain? Like, so are you when people are, you know, doing boosts or anything over there, are you, like,   engaging and having a new way of, like, interacting with your audience   and saying, hey. How's it going? Thanks, Billy Joe Bob. Even if it's private, you know, obviously, people don't have to reveal themselves that they don't wish.   Have you had any new new relationships and friendships   with your fans? Definitely.  



[00:16:49] Unknown:

Definitely.   Fountain,   Nostur, Orange Bill app. There's so many places where where I get to kind of, you know, talk about Bitcoin with cool people all the time. Yeah. And, Yeah. I mean, it's it's lovely. Also, like, when I go to these events and I meet people in the meet space, you know, it's it's wonderful to kinda get get a, you know, talk talk in real life and then, you know, keep staying in touch, you know, over X or or Noster or   or or Orange Bill app or whatever we use. It's it's amazing. It's so cool.   That interview that, the fountain founder did, I can't remember which podcast it was. It was a really good,   podcast where he was kind of explaining their philosophy and and also yeah. It was like I think it was the, Peter McCormack's podcast. Anyways, the the founder founder   founder's point was like really cool that even for podcasters   that you when you kind of analyze the streams Yeah. You can basically see like which parts work well and which kind of guests work well. And it can even, for a podcaster, guide the kind of content that you should,   produce in the future. It's I mean,   content creators have never had this before, that you have this real time kind of true feedback from the audience. And it's a small scale now, but, like, in 5 to 10 years, it's gonna be enormous. It can be, like, you know, one  

[00:18:05] Unknown:

one one artist talented artist can make a living just by doing this. You know? Yeah. Joe like Joe Martin talks about in staying with Ainsley, Ainsley Costello, they were,   you know, sharing just they get more revenue from their zaps than anything in Spotify, you know, because Spotify   is I think it's point 3 to point 5¢.   So less than half of a penny per play,   you know. And I'm like, okay. And then you don't know who's listening. Like, you don't have access to your details of who your listeners are versus   in,   you know, in,   Nostra or Fountain. Like, you can see,   okay, so and so sent this to you. So you have more of an opportunity   to really, really engage with your fan base versus Spotify. You're just hoping like, okay, cool. I got some reach, but I have no clue who's listening to my music. You don't know if one person is listening to your song a 1000 times or if a 1000 people are listening to your song once.  

And I think from a data point of view, like, if I knew you know, you know, I speak about this a lot. If I knew that I had one fan who kept listening to the same song, same song, same song, and let's say it's a breakup song, for example, you know, like, I'm gonna know that, like, fan number 642,   is having a hard time. You know? Yeah. And maybe I'm gonna say, hey. Here's a free ticket to my next show. And I hope you know what I'm saying? And so there's all sorts of really cool   opportunities   as,   as creatives to figure out how to engage with our audience, you know, especially,   you know, when when they're really consuming your content and giving you value, you know, and so you get to give them back more value. So how cool is that?  



[00:19:49] Unknown:

It's super cool, and that was, like, a great great vision you laid out there. Mhmm. And I talk about Ainsley. I just today,   Walking the Dogs. I was listening to her new song, which is absolute amazing song. So I was That's great. I was I was I was sapping her. So, you know, send some sats to her. Right?  

[00:20:06] Unknown:

Go, Ainsley.   Yeah. It's really, really cool. I mean, I think about,   we were talking about this at the summit and, you know, Kevin Kelly's, you know, a 1000 true fans. It's Like, a lot of us think like, oh, we need to have 10,000, a 100,000, a 1000000. Like, if you really do have a 1000 true fans who are continuing to,   whether it's through a subscription patron style model or whether it's through, you know, the Zaps or whatever, it's like you really can start to cultivate,   you know, a lot more intimacy and and interconnectivity   with the people who love your work, you know.  

I think it's a it's it's a really cool process. So what's on the what's on the agenda? Like, how what do you what do you have in the future besides Prague, which is gonna be so great?  

[00:20:49] Unknown:

Yeah. So so right now, like, the, the,   fully fully fledged plans are   Prague and Nashville. K. Then, and,   also, I've written, like, I don't know, 6 sixes new songs. Really? And my my friends from my my main band, Fumble, who were so helpful that they helped me. Because normally, I just play with me on my guitar, and that's how I travel to get to places. I just throw   a guitar in the airplane and and go so I don't have to kind of organize a lot of things. I just go. Yeah. But but, I was so lucky that my my friends from Fumble, the guitarist, drummer, and bass player helped me make, like, 4 songs with, like, proper production   last September. And now I have 6 new songs that I hope to find time to make this summer. So I I can then keep releasing these well produced songs later this year. So super excited about that. That's gonna be fun. I know. It's always nice to get your treasures out into the world so everybody can enjoy them.  



[00:21:45] Unknown:

And so let's talk a I wanna come back to   Spotify and and think about Tidal and all of these other companies. Like, do you envision   a future where they're gonna adopt   and integrate value for value in Bitcoin and Zaps into their platforms?  

[00:22:00] Unknown:

I think,   if they wanna stay relevant,   they have to. I that that's the way I feel about it.   They they are a bit bit like, you know,   you know how the financials financial system is is is still kinda controlled by the banks, and the banks, by definition, for the most part, are quite traditional.   So they'd like the fast ones to change.   And, and   especially Spotify is heavily influenced by the record labels. And, you know, they they have been shareholders in Spotify for a long time and so on. So   they're not gonna be the first ones to kind of,   let go of the old model for a for a new model.  

But over time, they kinda have to do it because, you know, people are moving to Bitcoin. People are moving to value for value. People are moving to to sending,   Satoshis to to to to kind of, creators that they love. Mhmm. They'd be completely missing out if they don't kind of join it. Plus, they can just add it on top of what they do already. It's just  

[00:22:57] Unknown:

an addition. You know? It it doesn't really take anything away. You know? Exactly. And I think that's kind of the thing that, you know, I I don't have any direct contacts at at Spotify. Obviously, Jack Dorsey is part of Tidal, which I'm surprised Tidal has not integrated   Zaps and value for value yet. So I'm not sure why,   that hasn't been done. Hey, Jack. What's up, buddy? Let's go get that going. Back in Chase, do you need a month?   But you're right. Like, it doesn't have to cannibalize the existing their business. It can complement the business because   the reality is, obviously,   artists make money because you're touring and selling merch. You're not making a ton of money because of streaming services. Right? And so,   you know, why not layer that on top? Because,   you know, smaller artists are never gonna get those, you know, 1,000,000 plays a month, 10,000,000 plays a month kinda thing. And so why not give everybody a chance to get a little bit more revenue with the the existing   platform   because if you have more revenue as an artist, guess what? You can spend more time making quality music   versus going and getting a job at McDonald's so that you can support your guitar string habit.  

You know?   So I think it's really, really   we're so close. We're just so close, I think, with,   with these guys getting it as long as they know, like, this is gonna add value. It's not gonna take anything away from you. We're not pulling because, you know, obviously, Spotify, YouTube, Tidal, any of it, Apple Music,   they serve a great purpose to get everything aggregated and then out and but you still have to market yourself as a musician. So let me ask you, how do you market yourself as a musician, and how do you suggest other people do that if we're we might be moving into a more decentralized way and not having, you know, access to these big record labels?  

[00:24:45] Unknown:

Yeah. So I have been quite low key with the marketing side. So I just make videos and songs and put them into Wave, like, YouTube,   and then post about them and then hope hope hope that people will kind of, like them and and listen to them and share them. And and I think   couple of times, I've tried   spending a, you know, few €100   or dollars   into this kind of,   you know, marketing   in in in social media and stuff like that. But that was the early days just to try it out. Yeah. But, but it's really I I I feel it's I'd rather have, like, less, like, high quality listeners and fans than, like, you know, spend money to get, like,   bigger amount, but who just, like, you know, you know, we might listen to one time and then forget about it. So I think it's more more more quality than quantity is is   my my my motto. Plus for my project, as it's like a hobby hobby project, I'm not expected to make a living out of it, or any anywhere close to it. But I just love when I get the opportunities to travel and meet people like you and other cool Bitcoiners   and play at these events. And just, you know, for me, it's just like a   therapeutic experience. When I'm on the stage and I I play my songs, I just forget about everything, and it's I just feel, like, you know, really great after. So it's a very good good, like, a mental mental,   therapy slash exercise for me.  



[00:26:11] Unknown:

I know. It really is. Like, it is as much as we're offering to our audiences when we're performing and gifting, like, we're receiving just as much. It's like a symbiotic   relationship. You know, we give and then they give, and it goes back and forth and then   it's just it's it's magical, I think, you know, getting to be able to be in that position whether you're, a musician or a DJ or a singer or any of it. You know, you're you're   you're dancing with a bunch of people's energies, you know, and going back and forth. And so, yeah, I know. I'm always high as heck after shows because even, like, I'm sober.   You know?  

It's so much fun.   This is great. Well, so   let's,   let's make sure that everybody can stay in touch with you and keep following you and zapping you some sats everywhere. So   people can go to the higherlow.com   and check out your music and subscribe to everything that you've got going. We can also follow you on x   at the high or low. And   what advice would you have for any new people,   you know, as we wrap up a little bit? What would you say to any new musicians who are out there who are a little nervous to learn about Bitcoin and integrate Bitcoin into their workflow?  

[00:27:21] Unknown:

Just   just do it, basically. Like, go to Webex,   put your music there. It it's easier than to put it into Spotify. So just do it and then, like, pause it a little bit and then see what happens. I that that's my number one one one thing. Second thing is that don't expect that it's gonna be some, like, shortcut to kind of riches or anything like that. It's gonna be a nice supplementary thing.   It might get you some peep some interest from people that otherwise would have maybe not not noticed you because Bitcoiners tend to kind of love projects that are like supporting Bitcoin. Like we give like extra chance,   you know, if we have this wall that we don't let things in. But, this is a Bitcoin thing, so   I'll give it a chance inside my walls, then I might like it. But if it's like we're bombarded with stuff all the time. So I think it's it's one way to kind of get exposure.  

And, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's early. So if you get now, learn the tricks, learn the and join the community,   stay humble. You know,   Don't don't spend all your stats. Stack them. You know? Save save them for the future.  

[00:28:25] Unknown:

You you know? The world world is your oyster in the end. It is. I know. It's so cool, and I think, you know, you're right. It is   we are so early, and it's just just start touching the buttons and doing the things. It's not scary. Bitcoin is just if you can do a PayPal or a Venmo account, you can do Bitcoin. It's really, honestly,   that easy. And so many people get in their head like, oh my god. It's so tough. I'm like, you know, as you go deeper down the rabbit hole layer by layer, if you're accumulating lots of Sats, yeah, you don't wanna just treat it like your PayPal account, you know, just like you wouldn't have your life savings in your PayPal account. But you have some spending money there or you have some stuff to go do transactions. You can do the same exact thing with a Bitcoin wallet. And so I think it's it's amazing. Like, get Alby and Geyser and everybody who's out there that are helping people do fundraising,   it's it's just it's so much fun. I love I love all of this. And then,   yeah, we're gonna be doing some more,   Bitcoin,   virtual summits, and so we're gonna do one specifically for musicians. This last one was like a creator summit for just all types of creators,   but I wanna do a specific one for musicians. We're gonna do a specific one for podcasters on September 7th.  

I haven't scheduled the musicians one yet. We're gonna be doing   one for families, one for women, one for teens, one's for activists, environmentalists. It's gonna be really cool because we really want   you know, everybody's kinda got their own language that they speak in their own zones of you know, so you have to speak Bitcoin in everyone's unique language,   you know, and help them understand, like, your use case is over here. You're on Wave Lake. Well, okay. Well, I'm not a podcaster or a musician. Why would I go there? I'm gonna go over here and do this thing on Geyser because I'm making I'm raising funds for, you know, an orphanage or something. So so it's cool to, like, make sure that we're communicating with all the different audiences in the way that they   are gonna utilize Bitcoin. So it's super cool.  

So, yeah. Well, thanks for coming on the show. Oh, my gosh. I'm so happy, finally, this worked out, and thanks for your patience. I know we had a couple,   you know,   scheduling things going on, so I really, really appreciate you and taking time to to share your your work and your passion with everybody here at Bitcoin for Peace.  

[00:30:33] Unknown:

Well, I'm so grateful that I I could join, and and thanks for everything you do, Valerie. And this was amazing, and, looking forward to seeing lot lot lot lot lots of your listeners,  

[00:30:43] Unknown:

and viewers in in events in in the coming months. Yeah. It's gonna be super fun. And, yeah, you guys, we're going to Nashville, so we're gonna have some fun. I'm gonna be DJing at the closing,   club party, so that's gonna be interesting.   And are you doing the block party? Is are are like, you guys are doing your a vinyl party. Right? I should have this up here.  

[00:31:02] Unknown:

Yeah. There there's gonna be the Wave Lake party. And,   yeah, I   so that's gonna be the main thing for me  

[00:31:10] Unknown:

for now. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna have lots of fun. And then the club party's happening. Andrew is just doing his club party. And, oh my gosh, there's gonna be so much fun stuff. We're doing the Women in Bitcoin brunch, and it's gonna be a really, really fun fun family reunion as usual.   So, well, dude, we'll have a blast in Prague. Oh, my gosh. I have so much FOMO. I have FOMO because I was a Freedom Forum, Kwapin. That was my dream to go there, but maybe next year, I'll get a sponsor and get myself out there.   Yes,   please.  

But,   but yeah. So thank you again so much. And, everybody, make sure you guys go follow the high or low at the high or low dot com and on x and listen to some tunes and make sure you're getting your wallet set up so you can zap some stats. And, until next time, everybody. Peace, love, and warm, aloha, and we'll catch you soon.   Thanks again. You all. Okay. Bye. Aloha. Bye. Bye.