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How to tackle the toxic waste tire problem with Bitcoin mining.

Magdalena Gronowska advises PRTI, a waste tire to energy mining company. 
She also helped launch the first Canadian Bitcoin fund on the TSX, is a Quadriga bankruptcy Inspector, and spent a decade in economic development, energy, and climate policy in Canada.

We discuss:

• Doctors Without Borders
• Zika virus, toxic tires, and Bitcoin mining
• Virunga
• Scott Harrison and Charity water
• BTC Prague and Bitcoin Film Fest
• Volunteer firefighter
• Mags also shares personal stories about her family's experiences during war and the importance of preserving generational wealth.

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https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/djvalerieblove/how-to-recycle-tire-waste-and-clean-the-earth-using-bitcoin-mining-crypto-mags

(00:00:43) Introduction to the episode topic: tire recycling and Bitcoin mining

(00:01:44) The guest's background and connection to the topic

(00:05:29) The guest's involvement in the Bitcoin space and previous experiences

(00:09:47) The importance of self-custody and revisiting security configurations

(00:14:16) The process of recycling tire waste into Bitcoin and other energy products

(00:21:12) The impact of tire recycling on the environment and local communities

(00:30:29) The potential for tire recycling and Bitcoin mining in developing countries

(00:38:00) The uniqueness of the company's technology and its future plans

(00:41:08) Recycling tire waste into Bitcoin and the concept of circular economy

(00:56:00) Preserving generational wealth and the importance of self-sovereignty

(01:06:18) Building bridges and finding solutions to environmental issues

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[00:00:33] Unknown:

Hey. Aloha. Did you guys know that Bitcoin   mining can be used to   prevent Zika virus?   It's kinda crazy. Right?   This next episode, we talk with my beautiful guest, Crypto Maggs, about   how tire recycling   is   getting into Bitcoin mining and helping with pollution.   It's helping with jobs. It's helping with   preventing health issues around the world.   Obviously, it's creating Bitcoin. So you guys are gonna love this episode. Do not miss it. If you are a tree hugger like me,   you are gonna love it. So make sure you tune in, send it to your friends, and please enjoy.   Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Welcome to Bitcoin for Peace. I'm your host, DJ Valerie b Love, and I have somebody here who is shares some similar heritage as mine, but I think you are a little bit more close to the heritage, and you are rocking, advising, and helping   save the world with Bitcoin mining and recycling tires and   all these wonderful things. Your big brain is welcome here on this stage. Thanks, Mags. Granowska.  

Welcome.  

[00:01:44] Unknown:

Where did you say hair? It turns out I was like, oh, yes. We do have similar hair. Hair. I know.  

[00:01:51] Unknown:

I know we're both having some technical difficulties, and I'm like, we are doing this, man. We both curled our hair today. Forget about it.  

[00:01:59] Unknown:

How's it going, sister? What's shaking in your beautiful world? I am am like, you know, you're getting those vibes of spring coming back, and it's like, ah, summer's around the corner. I can't wait.   Everything's getting warm. I love it. I know. It's definitely  

[00:02:13] Unknown:

we need it. I think,   I know it's kinda cold and and cloudy here where I'm at. But,   yeah, I think we need to have a little more color. That's why I wear so many colors because it keeps my mood alive. You know? I'm a big fan of the colors. So,   Mags,   let's talk about   how can people recycle tire waste into Bitcoin. And be before we totally get in that one exact layer, why don't you tell everybody who you are, what's all your magic sauce, and what's your big, big giant supermission in Bitcoin?  

[00:02:44] Unknown:

Okay. Well, there's a lot of things there.   Something around the block.   Yeah.   Silly. But, yeah. I I got into this just just like I think it's it's not a typical story from the perspective of, like, number go up, and it's like, why is number going up? I need to be a number going up. Right? But then,   the people that become Bitcoiners become Bitcoiners because then they start to research. They dive in. They read the white paper. They read this. They're like, what's going on with money? Right? They start thinking about that and thinking about all the other things that is quite complicated about Bitcoin that, you know, makes it a lot harder to understand. But I came from a background where I spent a decade working on low carbon economic transition   and energy systems,   right, policy in Canada. And so I had that background, and it was kind of like there were some intersecting points. I'm like, Okay. I understand energy and and, you know, that's a huge component of   Bitcoin mining. So then that connected for me. But then I think to and I really like to break it down into stories and how do we bring more people into Bitcoin is, like, what is your particular story? Like, what's your connection point? Right? And so for me, there were, like, several reinforcing   things within my family that also, like, you know, looking back and talking with my grandparents, talking with my parents,   that kinda clicked it more for me. And there's, I think, like, 3 specific   parts that for me and my family history really,   you know, reinforced   why Bitcoin, and and that comes from, like, government confiscation.  

Right? From abandoning your country because it's not in a good spot to sort of have better life for your kids and yourself,   and just family wealth being stolen. Right? And so those are kind of my three touch points, so we can get into that later.   Yeah. I but that's, like, you know, that's my story, and maybe it'll help find others find their story into Bitcoin.   So so in terms of, like, my first kind of foray of working in the Bitcoin space, I helped launch the first Bitcoin fund in Canada,   and so we put it on the Toronto Stock Exchange as an IPO. And we also took similar to Grayscale,   we took 3IQ took the,   Ontario Securities Commission, which kinda throws its weight around. It's it's like the SCC of Canada in terms of, like, what they say all the other provinces kind of tend to follow. And so we took them to court. The court had a 26 page document that said, yeah. It is in the public interest   for Canadians to invest in Bitcoin,   and that paved the way and kinda created the road map for all the ETFs   afterwards. So that was kinda cool being, you know, part of a team that,   that really just, you know, we did breakthroughs here in Canada on that front.  

So that was, you know, part of that. And then there's also the, you know, there's the highs like that, and then there's the lows of being part of Quadriga where I lost money in Quadriga, but I became a bankruptcy inspector for that. And that kind of reinforces the whole, like, you know, don't keep all your Bitcoin on an exchange. Like, custody is super important. So yeah. Can you let everybody know who may not know what the Quadriga fiasco was about?   So it was FTX before FTX. Like, we it was   FTX was quite a rega on steroids. So so ours was,   about   200,000,000   in terms of the amount of money that was lost, but that was about 2018,   29th, early 2019 when the exchange went down. And that was the same kind of story where he gambled users' money. Right? He he traded against users. He took the the money and sent it to other exchanges   and tried to make bets, but it was like, you know, Bitcoin's going down, and he's selling it. You know, he's buying Ethereum. It's going up. It's, you know, trading against where the trend is going, so we lost a lot of user money that way. He also embezzled money. Right? Like, he bought homes. He bought a plane, a boat, cars, like, lavish vacations, like, all that jazz, all the things you're not supposed to do. And it really   set how the, securities commissions in Canada, you know, look at cryptocurrencies   and and sort of pave pave the regulatory path. And sometimes it came you know, they came down pretty hard because we we had quite the scare, so they're trying to avoid another Quadriga just like the US now trying to avoid FTX.  

Mhmm. Yeah. So so that you know, obviously informative.   And and I think losing money is a good   like, yes. It sucked. Losing Bitcoin sucked, but it also makes it a little bit more cognizant for in the future if, you know, as   we huddle and, you know, it goes up slowly. Like, there's a lot more on the line if you're 10 years in huddling than if you're only, like, a year in. Right? Right. Yeah. And and so,  

[00:07:23] Unknown:

obviously, self custody is such an important topic. These I mean, it's always an important topic, and this is a perfect example of why we need to have, you know, truly understand self custody because we are our own banks if we're using Bitcoin in the way that it was intended to be used, which is peer to peer and being your own bank. So,   so what was your biggest I mean, obviously, it sucks to to lose money, and, like, how has it changed your perspective on how you talk to people about getting their their Bitcoin off of exchanges and helping them, you know, on the road to sovereignty? Self sovereign. I mean, I do recognize that everyone's not ready. And and so I think the biggest the more important step is to just own a little bit because then you'll start to go down to that rabbit hole.  

[00:08:06] Unknown:

But I do, like, you know, don't hold all of it on the exchange because because there is still a risk there. Yeah. I do understand that some people maybe wanna trade. Right? If you wanna have a order that   and and here's the thing. I'm not a proponent that's gonna say, like, hold it indefinitely.   Like, people need to live their life. Right? If you're under a lot of stress because you're,   you know, you you're having trouble struggling paying bills, trying to pay down your mortgage,   maybe selling a little bit, like, will make a big impact to your life in terms of how you day to day, you know, live. Right? If a family vacation is more meaningful, Right? What are you gonna wait until your kids are grown up, right, until you're retired and you can't, like, do those hikes or whatever? Like, I think there's a balance that we have to strike   too. So so, you know,   I'm not in a camp of never sell,   especially if you're you know, if there are things that you could be missing out that are, like I get find experiences and memories a little bit more important in some way.  

And so so so there's that. But,   know, if so if you are gonna hold a bit, like, obviously, don't hold it on one exchange, but definitely, you know, start the self custody   journey. And it it it can be simple. Like, you don't have to go crazy. Right? Because if you go crazy, then you might forget how to get get it back. Right? If you encrypt   like like, say you create a drive, you encrypt it, and then you forget the password, like, you're locked out. So people have lost money that way. Right? Like, if you if you set up something that is way too complicated,   it can be dangerous. So just start simple. And then as your wealth grows, you have time to kinda learn to redo your security system. So I think it's more important just to start, get a wallet,   you know, get that going.  



[00:09:47] Unknown:

Yeah. And how often do you suggest, like, for folks who are listening, if,   you know because we all have, like, our certain setups. Right? Whether they're single sig, multisig, a passphrase, whatever,   a couple different wallets. Like, how often do you suggest revisiting your configuration?   Once a year, once every 6 months, a quarter, every couple years, when a new thing comes out, like, how often should people be, you know, looking at this? I do think once a year, you should at least do some sort of transaction. Because here's the other thing, like,  

[00:10:16] Unknown:

a lot of us in the Bitcoin space, right, we just huddle. We just buy and send it to the same addresses. Sometimes maybe we create a new one, but it's a lot easier to just keep sending it to the same address. So people get lazy. And what happens then is, let's say you do wanna send it, you don't remember the PIN.   So let's say you pull the PIN. Usually, a lot some wallets, like, 3 times you the wallet erases, right, or it locks you out. So then you're relying on   your like, how you backed up your keys. And if you don't remember how to access that, you've got a problem. So at least if you're doing you know, if you remember the PIN, that's already helpful because you don't have to go back. Because, presumably, you've got a system   that's maybe geographically spread or something else or maybe it's,   multi sig. Like, whatever it is, it shouldn't be super easy once you get, you know, to a certain   part of the game. And so to do that, right, like, you're gonna have to   potentially drive or fly somewhere, and that takes time, right, if you wanna reaccess it. And, usually, it's, like, when you really need it, that's when you need it. Like, oh my gosh. Something happened. I don't know. My dog got hit by a car. I need money now. I need to sell. I can't access it. Like, that's the most stressful part, and then you lock yourself out. So having 2 wallets is helpful too. Right? Like a backup like a clone. So in case something happens, right, in case you lose it, in case your cast catches fire, like, those are the kind of things you should be thinking about. And as a volunteer firefighter,   yeah, houses burn down. And the way that houses are built, they're felt built very fiat these days. And what I mean by that is in the, like, olden days, we used to build out of wood.  

All our furniture was natural and wood. We are using so many synthetics to furnish, like, the content fire. So the room, like, contents fire.   If you look at if you just, like, Google, like, how how long it takes for a house to catch fire, they've done studies. It takes within, like, 5 minutes. You can flash over in a modern kind of home because using all these synthetics, all these plastics, and flashover is everything in the room catches fire. Right? It becomes, like,   like, volatilizes, which will get into the tire stuff.   So it becomes volatile, and and it's not really it's not,   the stuff that actually burns. It's when things kind of, like, heat up,   they become the fuel. Like, they go into the smoke, and that is what catches fire. And so if you have an old home and you have stuff made out of real wood, you have   cotton,   you have,   wool, like carpets.  

Those things can take, like, 40 minutes to flash over. So we're talking about a huge time difference in terms of   how long your house like, how you can you can safely get your things, get your family out. So so those are things to think about because it can be just within 5 minutes, everything's, like, in that room is gone. Right?  

[00:12:59] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:13:00] Unknown:

No.  

[00:13:01] Unknown:

I I I wouldn't have you know, my mind wouldn't have gone there until you said that. And, of course, you know, you think about, like, you see those pictures of the   the the nylon curtains just in 2 seconds going up. Right? And so  

[00:13:13] Unknown:

Go down the YouTube rabbit hole of watching, like, the contents burn in a house. Like, it's insane.  

[00:13:17] Unknown:

And and,   you know, obviously, we can go down this whole path, but I just I wanna spend just a minute or 2. How did you get involved in being a volunteer firefighter? That's badass. I'm in a really small community, and kind of the fire department is a central part of our town. And it's a way to kind of meet people,  

[00:13:34] Unknown:

sue,   to to give back, and also play with cool toys, like big toys. You know, you get to get the people's back. You get to use the extrication equipment. Like, I make cars convertibles. I'm on the extrication team. So, like, that is   it's a legitimate thing that we do to get people out of theirs, you know, if they're having the best the worst day in their life. And so since it it can be fun. Like, there's obviously, like it's not always fun. Right? There's some PTSD and and and stuff, but overall, you're doing it because you wanna Right? And Totally. Yeah.  

[00:14:06] Unknown:

So it sounds like you've got a helping spirit that lives within you since you've been working in energy and climate and,   obviously, now Bitcoin and, you know, how do we get tires into Bitcoin? Like, can you help everybody understand? Like, this to me is fascinating. I think, you know, there's so many waste streams out there. Right? We've got all the methane with the cows or the flared gas, whatever.   You know, tires isn't something that comes to mind, but when you say it, right, when you go get a new set of tires, they have to have your tire waste fee, la la la.   How does this work with turning tires into Bitcoin and, you know, in a way that's obviously not, you know, just burning it and polluting the environment.  



[00:14:48] Unknown:

Yeah. So this is a totally different kind of business model where what we're doing is we're getting paid to take in the waste stream. And, usually, like, you know, if you are throwing out waste,   into the landfill, there's something called a tipping fee. So,   anyone that has waste has to pay money to have it disposed of. Right? Because the landfill has certain costs, and down the road, you know, even to close the landfill, there will be costs to a landfill, so people have to pay it. And so the beautiful thing about that is that we accept tires, and we get paid for that. So it's like we're getting paid for energy.   So there is a bit of a trade off. Right? Because what we are doing is we are thermally deconstructing it. So we're not burning tires.  

We are changing them chemically into fuels feedstocks.   So,   the tire becomes it gets put in a vertical reactor, and we have a number on our site. And the and the tires go in, and they almost, like, bake over 11 hours.   And  

[00:15:44] Unknown:

under tires. Tires. You're not baking Toast House cookies. You're baking some tires. Alright? Tires. And so  

[00:15:51] Unknown:

the the the conversion that happens is because the tire becomes an oil that can go into the diesel generator. Right? Woah.   Yep. And we don't even have to mine Bitcoin. We can just sell that   to other,   folks that would like to use that. So we have there there's optionality. Right? There's synthetic gas and gas, which has a same composition as methane, so that's another feedstock, so that can also be burned. Okay. There is this black,   kind of like charcoal   that's left over that also has BTU value, and and we sell we have sold that to another industrial   client that uses it for for BTU values and, like, energy content. And the last So hold on. So be just to be clear for the audience, BTU values are, like, energy density, like, what it Calls or yeah. Yeah. It's just the way that, like, certain certain fuels like, if we think of natural gas, often,   like, people give BTU prices or or or energy content.  

And so,   and the 4th,   byproduct   so there's 4. So there's oil, synthetic gas,   the carbon, and the 4th one is   steel.   Because 25% of a tire Right. All the little They're all throughout because it gives it that rigidity because, you know, cars on the road, they're heavy. You know, the tires take a pounding. So   so there's the steel that we can sell then for scrap for recycling. So it's 4 products, and we get paid, and then all of them we could either sell or use the energy products to My Bitcoin, which we do.   But the the cool thing is, again, like I said, there is optionality. So depending on where we are in sort of the market, maybe it makes more sense to sell the energy. Or if we're in a jurisdiction   where there are, you know, high tipping fees but also high energy costs to to to, like, sell the energy. Maybe it makes sense there. If there's low energy costs,   or or or, like, depending on where we're in the bear bear market, if it's super profitable to mine, then you wanna be mining. So it's kinda it's nice from that perspective. And you don't even have to mine Bitcoin per se because we can create the infrastructure   of the reactors   and power any kind of data center. I mean, that could be,   an AI data center. Right? It could be a government because we have been working, with the depart   potentially is using it as a solution. So so   imagine that you are fully   unreliant   on fuels anywhere else because you've got tires as a feedstock supply. Right? You can run your own,   data center and whether, you know, that could be just proprietary,   could be defense data center that is not, again, disconnected from the grid,   disconnected from, like, a power grid, from the Internet grid, from from everything. So it's just you can be very self sufficient and sovereign. So I think that's kind of a neat technology in in terms of that. It gives you that optionality.  

And and one final thing that I'll say is, yes, maybe it's not as exciting as, like, cow poop or or or landfill gases, but it's exciting in the way that no one has really found what to do with tires. Right? And there's increasingly   and more and more places are saying no to creating children's playgrounds   because even used for tire you know, tires just be used for that because there are volatile organic compounds that are released,   in the soccer fields or the playgrounds. So now they're starting to come up and go, oh, we have to coat the tires and something, so these aren't released. But, again, it's not the perfect solution, and, honestly, I wouldn't want my kid playing on this kind of thing knowing   that, you know, there there are some anecdotal evidence that there may be,   negative health effects for that kids face from that. So, you know, so, like, really, what do you do? You put it in a landfill and it just leaches toxins. No. We have a solution that then changes it into an energy byproduct so we don't have to, you know, pull more oil out of the ground. Right? So there is some,   displacement of negative externalities from   the act of, you know, oil extraction   and the GHG at least during that. So it's I think it's it's it's kinda beautiful in that. It it is an alternative solution to a current environmental problem where there's a 1000000000   tires thrown out around the world   every year.  

Right?   360,000,000   in the US alone,   like, consistently, like, just  

[00:20:18] Unknown:

landfill is That's just it's a it's a it's a consume you know, the it depletes, like, if you don't get to keep them forever. I I think this is just as sexy as cow poo, if not even sexier.   Cow poo is not sexy. It just makes you know? I I I love,   you know, obviously, for all of us as Bitcoiners and environmentalists and people who care about making the world better than we found it, you know, with all these tools and technologies. Like, there are so many cool little niches of,   you know, opportunities here to, like, vacuum up   things that are causing a problem and then convert them into something that causes a solution,   you know, and that's that's, like, ultra cool and sexy. What do you notice? Like, are you guys just based in,   the United States, or are you all over the world?  



[00:21:05] Unknown:

The intent is to go   worldwide. Right? Because   it's a problem that is worldwide. Right? Like Yeah. Some some places like Japan, you know,   collect them and put them into,   EFW facilities, so energy from waste. So, you know, they are burning them for power, for example. But most Okay. They're still being landfilled. North America, we have a lot of land. We tend to landfill, right, rather than burn the waste that we have.   And so we know,   so we're currently   in Raleigh, North Carolina,   and the next site will be in Virginia.   But there are so there are certain states that have very similar   waste management policies,   and strategically   those places make the most sense to go to because we can get through the environmental approvals a lot quicker.  

Right? And then also,   there's certain states that have,   a lot more collection of tires or tire facilities. So one thing too that before I joined, I didn't really know, was   10% of the tires that are made just don't even make it to the cars because they have, like, minor defects. But because it's liability,   they just get thrown out. The the the the day that I visited the facility, most of the tires actually that have been delivered there because we we take tires for 3 3 to 4 days supply no more. Right?   And so most of the tires that's out there were brand new. So it's like it's not just like tires I get used that I get thrown out. It's just like you make them and you throw them out because they don't meet specs.  

So so definitely, you know, a problem there.  

[00:22:37] Unknown:

Yeah. That I I wouldn't have thought of that, but, of course, that's like, what do you do with all that waste of of Yeah. Those defects?  

[00:22:43] Unknown:

In Kuwait, they're so they have, like, desert full of tires, just waste.   But there's, in Kuwait, one of these places has caught fire, and it's just like cons like, it's just on fire right now. Yeah. I've seen I've seen good stories about this. Use of the air.   And so we have a solution for that because we don't   so if a tire is just burning you know, it's not burning in, like, the best way. It's not the most efficient way, and there would be toxins released. Right? But if we're thermally converting it, we're kinda converting it in a way back to what it what it came from because a tire is rubber,   right, steel,   and then also petroleum. Right? Petroleum goes into making a tire, so we're putting it back to, like, we're creating oil again. So it's almost like a reversal of that process in some way. That's so cool. And so how much energy does it take to do this? Like, what's your input on the energy? Yeah. It does take a little bit of energy to get that process started because we have to heat it up. But in that vertical reactor, once you get it going, it kind of self continues.  

And this technology is very different from paralysis.   So paralysis is a technology that people might have heard. A lot of times, it's used for energy from waste facilities,   but paralysis is   is very similar to firefighting.   Right? Because when something heats up in firefighting, right, it paralyzes. So it it it volatizes.   So it gets hot enough   that it becomes a gas. Right? So your phone, your furniture   heats up enough that it becomes a gas, and that is what burns. That is actually what burnt. When we think of fire, it's not the actual wood that's burning. It's the wood pyrolyzing   and then burning. So what   facilities that use pyrolysis do is they're constantly heating it, like, all the time to get it to volatilize   and then burn. Right? So that requires consistently large amounts of energy, and it's not, like, the best way to do that because you have to keep putting energy in. Whereas our process, we start and then it continues because it we don't use high temperature. That's the other thing. So if you're using paralysis, you're burning it at high temperatures to get rid of it, whereas we're kind of, like,   you know, around 250,   degrees and kinda sticking around there. And and so, for example, if you think of, like, a kiln,   or or like a cement kiln. Right? Sometimes they they use,   they use waste as part of their heating process. Right? Those are going up to, like, over a 1000,   degrees. So, you know, high heat process versus low heat process. So so, again, we're being much more efficient with the energy that we use. And that way, I think we're much more competitive than a facility that's like, oh, we're going to burn garbage   or pro use paralysis   to mine Bitcoin because they're gonna have to constantly find an energy   source to burn. Right? So, yes, maybe they get paid for the the garbage, but they have to heat it at a higher temperature to keep that energy sustained.  



[00:25:35] Unknown:

And and, like, what types of   inputs can get used in this, you know, more efficient way versus the   the pyrolysis?  

[00:25:44] Unknown:

So we're trying to so we we've modeled the process. We've been   like,   like, we understand the process, how it works with tires very well. Like, we've got a very consistent profile now.   And and so we want something that has petroleum in it. So down the road, we wanna do some r and d around plastics. Right? Because they're also petroleum based, so it can be a similar type of model. But we're not gonna go into something that's very, very different, like, in like, in terms of a different feedstock. And the one more cool thing that I will say is,   you know, so I used to work with heavy industry. Right? I spent a decade working with large vinyl emitters, so steel, cement,   traditional mining.  

And and I'm used to sort of, like, working on the alternative fuel style. Like, they wanted to use,   you know, various feedstocks   as an alternative to, let's say, coal or coke or natural gas. Right? So waste made sense. And so but but I'm used to these companies, like, thinking in terms of, like, we have byproducts maybe that we can sell. Right? Or we're cocreating   some sort of product. And when we   create this oil, yes, the easiest thing to do, but the lowest value is to just burn it or sell it for burning. But if you can further refine it into a more value added product, so instead of selling it for, let's say, $4 a gallon, you're selling it for 80 because it becomes,   a chemical feedstock to or chemical input to another process   for the cleaning agent, then that's better for us, potentially, is if we then take the next step to refine it. So we are doing some r and d into what other products can we make from the oil so we can sell it, for example, for $80 instead of 4. And, again, optionality,   maybe it makes more sense during a bear market to   take that, upgrade it, refine it, and then sell it. Totally. Yeah.  



[00:27:39] Unknown:

Oh my gosh. That's so exciting. So   I've been you know, we're working on do you know the sustainable Bitcoin protocol, guys?   I have. Yeah. A little bit. And so we're talking about, you know and then, obviously, Margo and Troy and Daniel Batten and everybody who's awesome in the the environmental space. You know, we're talking about, like, how are we gonna talk with, you know,   you know, mainstream finance, the green finance world, obviously, the sustainable,   activism   world. And, of course, the minute you say Bitcoin, people freak out, you know, and we're working on creating nonsense. I know. And you need to be on this working group because we were like, let's get on this work. You know, we're creating a working group so that we can all put our, you know, our brainpower together and look at all these different conferences all over the world that we can cross pollinate   the Bitcoin message to and talk about what are these solutions. And, you know, how how are these things getting financed? Is this something that you guys have a fund, or you're just doing 1 you know, can people invest in the company? It seems like it would be a good part of a fund. We are raising to finish the second site. So we're we're almost completing the raise, but we are still looking for some capital there.  



[00:28:48] Unknown:

And there will be further sites. Right? Like, after that one, so we've got a few others identified.   That's and and it sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Go. Oh, sorry. I maybe I mentioned it, but maybe I didn't. So   we our power costs compared to other miners, like, we get paid for our power. Right? But the the the trade off is is we are capital intense because we're not just building out the mine. Like, we are an integrated,   facility where we build out our own energy system. So we have to build out the reactors   at a site so they have a certain capital cost. It's about 75,000,000   to set up the whole site with miners.  

And the energy system   for,   for about 8 megawatts worth. And so so, you know, so that trade off is capital versus operating cost. Our operating costs are far lower. Because if you look at operating costs, about 80%   of a mine is energy   costs of the operating cost. So it's a huge chunk. Right? So we're we're cutting that out in a way because we are,   you know, like I said, getting the power, but the capital is a lot more intense.  

[00:29:53] Unknown:

I I get that. And so let me ask you this. How   because thinking in terms of the the burning pile of tires in Kuwait. Right? Like, that's obviously horrible for the environment. That's horrible for the community. It's horrible for the groundwater, all the whole 9 yards.   How are are you noticing any difference as whether it's here in the states or at any of these other locations around the world? You know, what's the impact   that you see with the local community in an environmental,   perspective and from a social perspective? And, you know, is it cleaning up the community so that you're not having all of this other just excess tire junk around?  

[00:30:29] Unknown:

I think, first of all, they have to care, right, and have the money to deal with the problem. So we are having some conversations   with folks in the Middle East, but that's that's a longer term kind of process. Right? Again, there's   different regulations,   there.   But, you know, obviously, recognizing it as an opportunity. I think where it gets harder is,   I don't know how   so I've traveled to a few sort of developed countries,   or developing country sorry, developing countries. Right? I've been to several jurisdictions.   Actually, just last month, I went to 4 in,   in Latin America, right, in South America. And   going to places like that, you really see there is no tire   sort of   like, tires are just thrown out all over their all over the streets. Yeah. Driving around, some people are using them to, like, maybe hold things down. But there is and and similar in Africa. Right? They're just thrown outside of the road.  

And in Africa too, actually related to health, what happens a lot of times is the water pools in the tire because, you know, the tire is like this. Mhmm. And   mosquitoes   Yeah.   Hatch there, and there's a lot of problems like Zika virus. And and, you know, people aren't getting vaccinated against some of those,   things that are very preventable   in Africa, and it's causing health problems. So you're almost solving kind of, like, for 2 problems in places like that if you create   a collection system   where it's, you know, a, you're mitigating the mosquitoes,   b,   and some of the most beautiful stories in Bitcoin I am hearing out of Africa, right, where miners are coming in and subsidizing   the development of a, you know, small scale renewable site   that's then creating power for a village in Africa. So, you know, GRID or,   shoot, it's BBCGS,   I think. They're the folks that are in Virunga National Park. That is, like, the most beautiful story, I think, in all of Bitcoin.  

And and and so, you know, you're taking a village that had no power   to be able to   bring in   enough capital then to build out the power plant   and therefore not only give, you know, light and pumping. Like, that's a big thing too. It's like it's not just like, oh, we have to now go to bed because it's dark. It's also I don't have to walk 2 hours to go get water. Right. Dirty water. Dirty water. And and it makes for for a huge difference there. But then now we that we have electricity,   we can bring in a local textile mill or a chocolate production facility. Right? Like, real kind of, like,   manufacturing.  

And it's not like, you know, industrial scale where it's like a a cement plant, but it's still an important part where you are now creating a lot of jobs   that people maybe before went into the militia or or mercenaries in Africa, which is quite common. So now creating   a much kind of better,   lifestyle for the community. So so same thing there where if you create tire centers so again, because the tires, they can be distributed in some way. You can and and our and our reactors are modular, so you could do a smaller scale   reactor where you only have 1 instead of, like, 8 or or 6 of the reactors. Mhmm. So you have 1 because it's smaller feedstock supply,   and maybe it powers a local,   hospital, or now it can power, like, just a little clinic. Right? So I think,   you know,   it's really cool what miners are enabling in terms of small scale grid   grid build outs, like in these little microgrids   that doesn't make sense to set up the wires, the transmission, distribution.  

So you're so you're just creating very local opportunities. So I think those are the stories that haven't really hit mainstream yet. I know And we need to get them out. That are starting to look into what is happening there. So dirty coin.  

[00:34:19] Unknown:

Right? Is the best. We love you, Alana.  

[00:34:23] Unknown:

And she's telling that story, and I wanna see more of Virunga   Park being told. And, actually, it's really funny because last week, like, the, the World Economic Forum went just so into Bitcoin generally. They're like, oh, look at this. Look at Bitcoin miners helping, you know, these women make chocolate and, you know, they're they're keeping all the resources   in Africa instead of, like, just sending out the cocoa beans. So, like, all the value added stuff gets, you know, made in, like, France where you have, like, Ferrero Rocher and whatnot. But, no, all that money stays now in Africa, which I think, again, is pretty cool.  

[00:34:57] Unknown:

It is so cool. I know it's it's   I'm I love stories. You know, with Bitcoin for Peace, to me, like what you said, a lot of this the the folks, a lot of time, they think, well, this is the only option I have is to join a militia,   you know, or a gang or whatever it is. And so that's not a peaceful way of living. That's not a peaceful community. That's not inner peace. That's none of it. And so how are we linking the dots of Bitcoin and mining and adoption to creating a more   peaceful way of living for individuals and communities and companies and organizations and countries, you know? And so   I think when people can connect the dots through these stories and and through the visualization   of the stories, right, like, that is super important especially if you're interviewing somebody   who is a surgeon   who had to go operate by candlelight, and sometimes it would blow out. And then now we've got a Bitcoin mining   thing set up, and now he can have a little bit of electricity so he can do an operation. Like Yeah. That's   that story right there, it's like, oh, okay. And I loved what you said about the water too. A lot of people don't really understand   the absolute blessing and gift that it is for us to be able to go in many of the rooms of our houses here or apartments in, you know, first world areas and just go bloop,   And then we have clean   relatively clean drinking water that's very safe,   247.  

You know. And I remember for,   my 40th birthday,   a long time ago,   I did   I did   a fundraiser for Charity Water, and it was, like, Scott I think Scott Harrison was the person who started Charity Water. He used to be a big nightclub promoter. It was partying, all this crazy stuff, and he had this, like, like, is this really gonna be my life? You know? Screw that. And then Not my legacy.   Yeah. And he was just like, I wanna go help build water wells. You know? So it's such a cool project. I love what he's up to, and I just when you said that, my mind was like, is he a Bitcoiner? Does he understand about Bitcoin mining? Because Charity Water does, like, tons and tons and tons of these types of,   campaigns, and people will go do, like, a, you know,   a a walkathon   for some you know, whatever it might be.  

And so I'm just curious. It's like, I'm gonna reach out to him and say, dude, do you know about this stuff? We gotta get   your places set up because   that's a limitation   of obviously getting clean water to different people is the power. And so if Bitcoin can solve for that somehow,   but, yeah, you're totally I loved also the other the the the Zika virus and how is Bitcoin solving for the I mean Well, that's that's down to the incredible.  

[00:37:34] Unknown:

If we go into Africa, we can see   yeah. Because the founders,   the founders of the company, PRTI, that I advised, they originally came from the medical field. Right? And and one of them worked with Doctors Without Borders,   and they're still, like, in the health space a little bit.   So so I think, like, you know, connecting the 2 works, and it and and that connection that intersection point in Africa would be interesting.  

[00:38:00] Unknown:

I think so too. And I think, again, just like,   you know, when you said it, because it just of course, I've I've seen that before with, like, the you know, whether it's on a kid's playground with a tire swing or whatever it is, like, water accumulates. And, obviously, multiply that by 1,000,000,000 of tires and millions of tires.   That's a lot of mosquitoes   out there and a lot of people getting sick that it's unnecessary.   Right? And so   it I just it's so cool to me. So   what are you up to now? Like, what's going on? What's on the horizon? Are you still like, you're working with these folks. You guys are building out some things. Is there are there other companies around the world that are doing this? Are you guys the only ones? We're as far as I know, the only ones that are using tires and are using this kind of a technology.  

[00:38:42] Unknown:

I haven't come across at least one company that is interested in doing, like I mentioned, the paralysis   where   and then,   I think there are for a lot more folks that are more focused on the methane   aspect. Right? Like, the methane from waste, and there's a whole number kind of feedstocks. Oh, sorry. One company   that I have come across are looking at waste   oils. So it's a similar process where, you know, like, I know there are collections   where where companies go around and take the waste all, for example, from restaurants.   Right? So they provide that oil. Yeah. Is oil that could be theoretically burned. Right? So so there are there, you know, there's so many different business models.  

And, technically, that's a biofuel.   So it's, you know, carbon neutral.   So so and I I love to see people just experimenting more and more with with opportunities. And I do think, you know, because we're about to go into the having   in is it a month from now, or is it a month from now?   So, you know, it's gonna get a lot more expensive.   Right? Your revenue's cut in half. So so unless you have a very cheap,   power supply contract,   you know, I think more it it'll it's gonna become a little bit more popular   to to find these   cheap, low cost   or negative cost as in we're getting to take that,   that,   waste   fuel   to to then mine Bitcoin.  



[00:40:08] Unknown:

Yeah. Because, like like what you said, like, you're either gonna have that upfront CapEx, and then you have the the the free fuel,   or you've gotta have those operating costs of of your inputs. And so   this seems like an interesting model as as long as, you know, you're not overspending  

[00:40:23] Unknown:

at the beginning with your cat. And The one thing that I will say is so   miners,   right, their CapEx, their biggest expense is typically   the the mining equipment. Right? And so but the mining equipment these days,   it gets swapped out. Sometimes now even, like, you're looking at it 3 3 year cycles. Right? 3 to 5 years depending where you are.   Obviously, some miners will probably buy older machines because they're cheaper. They might won't get the latest and greatest, but maybe they have cheap powers and then they'll buy machines that are, you know, discounted per per,   like, dollars per terahash.  

Yeah.   But   when you build so the the reactor,   typically, you know, like, that's a very short capital cycle for a mining machine.   When you're talking about, like, steel, cement, heavy industry, something like our facility, the actual energy generating facility, you're talking about decades. Right? Like, you're talking at least 2 decades,   maybe 3 decades, like steel plants. Right? Their their kilns are, like, 3 decades, 4 decades.   So so it's not like you're constantly, like, rebuilding the reactors  

[00:41:29] Unknown:

so that affects gets distributed over a lot more years versus How long does it how long does it how long does it take to set up a facility?   The  

[00:41:39] Unknown:

permitting. It's like a lot   longer. Yeah. Yeah. So so,   good question. I think, like, within a year with permits and stuff is is feasible.   I again, like, it's one of those things where it's like, yes. It takes us time or there's supply chain issues. Right? Yeah. Is there, like, hiccups with the permitting? And that's, again, why we prefer to work in jurisdictions where it's very clear and very similar to what we've already worked in.   Yeah. But but yeah. And so once you're up, again, the energy infrastructure stays, and it's just the mining equipment that might need to be swapped out more often. But  

[00:42:11] Unknown:

And are you getting like, the people who are in the the the policymakers,   like, once you guys are presenting this to them,   you know, and you're showing that this is working and it's valuable for the the community, etcetera, are they like,   so what's this Bitcoin stuff? Tell me about Bitcoin. Like, are you finding that they're, like, more excited and interested?  

[00:42:31] Unknown:

I think, generally, we tend to refer to it as a data center because people understand that. Okay.  

[00:42:36] Unknown:

But, like, the ones if are you having anybody who's just like, oh, what okay. What are you what are you doing in your data center? Like and then there's interested in Bitcoin.   I  

[00:42:49] Unknown:

think   I think it will get easier. Definitely, it's just easier to, like, why why even go there right now? You know what I mean? Like Cool. No. I was just curious, like, if you you know, because a lot of people  

[00:42:59] Unknown:

I noticed you know, I was having this conversation in Madera, and some folks were like, yeah. We're gonna build these products and services, and we're just gonna tell them that we're streaming Sats, but it's not really Bitcoin yet, and they'll just do, you know, this thing. And I'm kinda like,   is that really the best approach? Because   eventually, they're gonna know it's Bitcoin, and they're gonna be excited. So is it better to just, you know, put the cat out of the bag? And, but I think that there's a lot of ways to approach this, so I'm always just curious how people where you are. Right? Yeah. Like, if you're in  

[00:43:28] Unknown:

even, like, republican versus democrats. Right? Like, in Canada,   the liberals are very much against,   Bitcoin, whereas the conservatives are much more for it. Right? So you you always have to think strategically.  

[00:43:40] Unknown:

Right. You know your audience. Right? Your exactly.  

[00:43:44] Unknown:

Yeah. Totally. Well, okay. So more fancy now that everyone's got you know, now that the ETFs have launched and people are you know, BlackRock's advertising.   We're in a bull market again.   So maybe it's like people are more excited about that. Right?  

[00:43:59] Unknown:

Yeah. It seems like it'll   there's, you know, people, like, who would not touch this   before, you know, because of the black rocks and everything. It's like   I mean, they're the top of funnel marketing department for us at you know? And it's like, cool. Great. Get them excited. Okay. Let's start getting people to say, well, I don't really want an ETF. I want my own Bitcoin. Right? And so   but but, you know, it's social proof. It's just straight up social proof, and it's social proof from the biggest money manager on planet Earth. So when they you know, when EF Hutton talks, everyone listens. Right? And so when when BlackRock does something, you're like,   oh, okay. Maybe I guess I should reconsider my   my hostile attitude toward Bitcoin.  



[00:44:41] Unknown:

Now Arizona is contemplating putting it in their pension, like I know. Changing.  

[00:44:46] Unknown:

Yeah. It is. And it's so cool to see, you know, these dominoes. You know, I always think I think of, like, in terms of the orange domino effect, and I'm like, you know, these big players or whether you're an entertainer, a sportsperson,   a pension fund, a government, and it's like, doop, everything downstream of your little orange dominoes starts to fall into   a place of understanding, hopefully, and not being afraid   and being more curious and willing to look at Bitcoin from a different perspective. So,   again, it's that social proof.  

Yeah. We're humans. We need that. It was like, who do we trust? You know? I don't who's this not anonymous   person that disappeared?   You know? Nope. It's like, that's so weird to most of us. Right? And you're like, what?   So I I think it's really cool. What do you have? What kind of big dreams do you have for the rest of,   you know, for the rest of the year and for the rest of your life, Mags? What are you dreaming of these days? What are you dreaming of, sister?   Philosophical.   You know, I gotta go there. It's all about peace, love, and granola. Let's go.  

[00:45:50] Unknown:

No. I'm sure I actually would like to write a book.   Nice. That kind of highlights sort of the good news from an environmental standpoint around Bitcoin. So that's Yep.   I'm working on.   And and, like, you know, you   you start thinking about, like, what what did I do in life? So I'm like, I feel it'd be a nice accomplishment. Like, yes, I contributed to Bitcoin by doing this, like, telling those stories, so I think that's what I would like to do. Long term, I don't know, man. Just be on a beach.  

[00:46:18] Unknown:

Yeah, dude. Totally.   Well, we're gonna be book accountability buddies, so  

[00:46:22] Unknown:

so I think that remember, we're gonna be We are gonna be book accountability buddies.  

[00:46:27] Unknown:

Yeah.   We it's what we needed. It's like it's lonely writing and being you know, getting like, hey. Read my thing. Edit this. And it's like yeah. So it's good to have a little   little sisterhood and but yeah. So we'll rock on that. And writing is like,  

[00:46:43] Unknown:

yeah, exact sitting down and writing stage is always, like, the toughest. It's like, oh, I don't wanna write today. I know. It's like, do you know  

[00:46:52] Unknown:

oh gosh. Hold on. I'm gonna get the book.  

[00:46:57] Unknown:

So I'm seeing a lot of sparkles in your room.  

[00:47:00] Unknown:

Yeah. You know, you're Lot of glitter. Sparkles over here. I'm like the sparkle fairy.   Just it's my coffee.   Oh, yeah. Steven Pressfield. So here, these two books, they're on my altar, The War of Art and Turning Pro.   And they're really great books, and I just I literally will just thumb it open, and it'll be like, you know, a 2 page thing about the the professional creator mindset or getting through your inner creative battles and all this stuff. And,   you know because a lot of us, I think, whether you're a musician, a writer, a filmmaker, whatever, you know, choose your your medium,   you know, we think like, oh, we have to wait till inspiration strikes, and I'm just gonna do it. It's like You're gonna be waiting forever? Yeah. You're gonna wait forever, and it's just like,   you know, the inspiration strikes when you're the pen is in your hand, and we need to put the pen in your hand every day or whatever it is that your, you know, your your tool is. And so   it's nice to have it's like going to the gym. It's easier to go to do yoga or the gym if you're like, cool. I'll see you in there at 9 o'clock. Let's go.  



[00:48:02] Unknown:

Oh. Like a friend in accountability friends, it's like, hey. We said we'd work out at 8 AM. Where are you?  

[00:48:09] Unknown:

Totally. And and and you give permission to each other to, you know, call each other out. They're like, dude, you're keep saying you're gonna come, but you're not coming. So what's going on? Let's let's talk about it. So it's important.  

[00:48:21] Unknown:

You know, you mentioned, like,   like, inspiration. I actually find that when I'm hiking with my dog and I'm walking and doing things, sometimes the best ideas come, but it's, like, so frustrating. You're like, ah, this is the idea. How do I write like, you're you're, like, writing it in your head as you're hiking, and then after as you get home, you're like, I don't even remember.  

[00:48:41] Unknown:

Record. Use a voice recorder on your phone. Yeah. Just like, that could be your your friend and that and same thing, like, when you, you know, when you wake up in the middle of the night and you get that idea, you should always have a pen and paper next to your bed,   and and then don't get out of bed. Don't let your feet touch the ground. Just write that sucker down and because it's gonna fly away, and you don't know if you'll ever get it back. And I know we always think, like, no. Yeah. I have a great memory. I'll I'll I'll remember. No. You won't. I know. I'm like, oh, yeah. This was a cool dream. I'll tell I'll tell somebody later, but I was like, I don't remember anything.   Totally.  

Awesome. So are you gonna be at any events this year? Am I gonna get to see you? Yes. So I am emceeing main stage Prague.   Yeah. Dude, that's amazing.   Oh my god.  

[00:49:26] Unknown:

So beautiful. So Bitcoin Prague, it's in,   June June. And what I love there is that was my first time going to Prague, and it is such a beautiful city. It's such a walkable city, and there's so many cool things to see, like so, like, you do the conference and then afterwards you go out around the town. Right? And it's just so so beautiful there. So I really enjoyed that. And and the cool thing too is, like, there are different Bitcoiners there. Then you you always see the same folks, right, when you go to the plate,   the   the United States conferences. Mhmm. I do like Pacific Bitcoin because it's so close, you know, on West Coast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and high quality.  

And then I'm also going to Bedford.  

[00:50:07] Unknown:

Yeah. Peterson.   I remember fun to London. So,  

[00:50:12] Unknown:

you know, going to the UK is kinda cool, and and a lot of good folks will be there. So I'm looking forward to catching up. So those are the main 3 that I have planned.  

[00:50:20] Unknown:

Oh my gosh. That's amazing. Yeah. You're you're right. And I just got back from Madera 2 nights ago, and,   oh my gosh. I mean   Location.   So beautiful. Of course, it's just cool. And just exactly what you said, like, I liked you know, certainly, there's tons and tons of awesome familiar faces, but there was a whole bunch of new folks I've never seen. And I'm just like, yeah. Who are you? Now where are you from? This is so cool. And I think Caribbean  

[00:50:45] Unknown:

food. Oh my god. Like Yeah. It was amazing. Then have the cheese and, like, everything just tastes so much better.  

[00:50:53] Unknown:

It's so good. And it's just there's something I don't know. There's just a different vibe over there. You know? And   my favorite part I mean, of course, seeing everybody, but they had a wonderful kids area   at the conference.   And it was put on by you know, there was an adult kind of facilitating, but then all the kids were,   like,   coleading different activities, and it was all these different ages. And   just to see all these children running around and just, like,   having their fun, whether they were little ones playing in a ball pit or or games or the little older ones that were just cruising around the stadium, like,   we're on it's like their camp. You know? And   I I think it's so   it is so missing and needed regularly,   whether it's a Bitcoin conference, whether it's a personal development, business development. It doesn't matter. Like But he's gotta limit who can attend, I think, too. Totally. And then if you're somebody who has to keep going to, like, the environmental   things and, you know,   mommy's going away again, you know, you start to possibly have a little resentment as a kid. And so if you get to go,   you're like, yeah. I get to be included, and   your family starts to speak the same language. Yeah. You know? So if we have Bitcoiners   speaking the same language and our young kids are around all of it and they're around other peers,   kids listen to each other instead of, you know, us   young adults. Right? And so   so I think it's really, really valuable. Fine happening at school now.  

Totally. Right? And so   it's like you you're gonna listen to maybe, you know, within a couple years, depending of, you know, how old you are, who your peers are. So it's like, why not create a cool space for them to go play and flourish and have some fun in the Bitcoin space? So I can't wait to see   I pray that every single event has a kids' area from now on. That was, like, seriously the coolest thing.   Yeah. It's definitely  

[00:52:47] Unknown:

Nashville is supposed to, but   I don't know. I mean, that's gonna be a big event. They should totally have a kids area. That's too big for me. I'm like, I have to. It's it's a little much. I like the new conferences when there's, like, newer, smaller. I I do regret not going to Madeira.   I think the first time is always a little special.   But but, yeah, I've been it gets a little too big for me, I think.  

[00:53:10] Unknown:

Yeah. I know Nashville is gonna be amazing, and it's gonna be it's big. I know. I'm all like,   I lost a few pounds when I came back, and I'm just like, I ate 3 meals a day. I didn't, like, starve myself or anything. You know? And I'm not, like, trying to lose weight, but I was like, oh,   okay.   Whatever.   But you're just cruising around because the venue is so big, you know, and you're it's a lot of activity. So it's great, though. And, obviously, walking around the city was amazing and seeing everybody. So,   where can everybody find you, Mags? Where should they come and check you out?  



[00:53:48] Unknown:

Crypto. Sorry. Underscore   no. Crypto underscore Mags.   And then, I'm on Nostra too, but I think the easiest way is to go to my Twitter account. And then And then we can go to Exactly. From there. So okay. So you've got crypto_   mags. Any chance to change it to Bitcoin mags? Or I know people ask, but you know what? It's called the funnel.   So they come in expecting crypto, and then it's just Bitcoin content.  

[00:54:12] Unknown:

So, boom, maybe you'll learn more about Bitcoin that way. There you go. Boom shakalaka is like, which is the best  

[00:54:18] Unknown:

Joe. Yeah. No. That's super cool. Did you have like, I noticed, you know, not just Bitcoin people follow me. So I'm like, well, if they're getting   learning about Bitcoin more through me, that's helpful.  

[00:54:29] Unknown:

It's super helpful. And I know a lot of people,   you know, obviously, there's it's like a spectrum. And I think we're all on spectrum this way, and we're all on spectrum of Bitcoin understanding,   you know, because, like but   everybody's gonna become a Bitcoiner at some point. And so however you get involved, whether it's through number go up or crypto or environment or whatever, you know, human rights, like, or art,   get in. You know? And it's not just, like, Bitcoin, we want to welcome everybody in in a way that feels comfortable in their own language. You know? And so I love that you're doing that. And I'm so happy to see you, and I can't wait for us to work on our books together.   And I will talk when we jump off of here for a couple of minutes. But,   Yeah. I'm so excited. Well, hopefully, I'll see you at one of these conferences somewhere. I don't I'm putting my schedule together for the rest of the year, so   I want food in Prague. Oh my god. I would love to come to Prague. I know I asked,   Matthias. I was like, do you want a Bitcoin for Peace Panel? He's like, we're all booked up. Sorry.  

You want a DJ? He's like, no. I'm like, okay.   I wish I could come see you, but it's okay. No. It's just it might not be the right year for that. But   but, but there's some other cool things coming up. I'll you know, when they're ready, I'll I'll post them.   But any last words? So for people who might be listening to this who are   environmentalists,   who are curious about Bitcoin and how can they get started   in, you know, understanding Bitcoin,   getting their first Bitcoin? What would you say to,   somebody new who's listening to this podcast?  

[00:56:01] Unknown:

As an environmentalist, that's a tougher one because, I I feel like they always come with these preconceived notions. But I think for the environmentalists,   definitely,   you know,   read a little bit about what's happening in Bergen National Park. There's a beautiful article in MIT review written by Nathaniel Popescu about that. But, also, I know Alana is releasing her,   documentary, Dirty Coin,   I believe. Oh, so it's being released at the   Polish Bitcoin Festival,   which I'm going to so. You're going you're going to own yourself. Because I'm I'm close to Bedford. Right? So I'm going straight from from Bedford to visit my grandparents to then Warsaw,   for the having party there.  



[00:56:43] Unknown:

Oh my god. That's gonna be incredible. I just talked to Tomek today, and he invited me to be a juror for all of the films. And I was like, okay. Cool. And I'm like, Steven Spielberg, so, hopefully, I can give good feedback. But,   if you want,   say, I've I've I need to get a sponsor or something. I just I can't take any out of my own pocket. Today.   So maybe fingers crossed. Like, let's see. Anyone who's listening who wants to sponsor   DJ Val and to go back to her part of her homeland. So you're you're Polish. Right? And so   I'm I'm like a little sliver. I'm half Polish, and so but I didn't really learn a whole lot because my dad didn't teach us a whole lot of Polish, but we did eat a lot of pierogis growing up. Nice.  



[00:57:27] Unknown:

You know, one of my fondest memories is, like, making pierogis with my grandma. Right? Yeah. Hey, pierogis are proof of work.   They did. They did, like,   I don't know, 3 hours, let's say, fully between, like,   kneading   and, you know, making the little peronis and boiling them, and then you just, like, eat them really quick. That's so good. Oh my gosh. Now I'm hungry.  

[00:57:51] Unknown:

I know I haven't had lunch yet, so maybe I'll go eat some lunch before I jump on the next,   podcast. I know I've got Rafa Corden,   of Simple Proof coming on in, like, an hour and a half, so that'll be a cool podcast. So whoever's listening, I see we have an awesome audience. Hi, you guys. Thanks for tuning in.   And,   yeah,   you guys can text us if you have any questions for for Mags, and we'll post this on all the social media channels later, and put it into a podcast format.   But tune in later for for Rafa, and you guys can also go to,   where am I? Oh, yeah. Go get the newsletter. I've got a fun newsletter that I'm starting and trying to keep it kind of fun and playful and sexy and with Bitcoin and music and art and peace and granola and all those great things, so go there.  

But, yeah, what are you gonna say, Mags?  

[00:58:39] Unknown:

You have your hand up. I do. I'm Canadian. I'm very polite.  

[00:58:44] Unknown:

I'm raising my hand.  

[00:58:45] Unknown:

Okay.   You might be interested in this. So I I started off kinda talking about stories. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Family stories. So my family, my grandma   from my dad's side, up in Philadelphia,   she had   beautiful, like, house with acreage, gorgeous gardens. Like, she had orchards there,   like, everything, basically, that you would think of.   And that was her her her mom's house. Right? In Poland. In Poland. And she lived there, and then the war broke out.   And, you know, the there was a whole lot of cool stories in there that I won't because we don't have all this time. But anyways and some horrible, you know, because war is also horrible.   But when the war was over,   Poland's borders shifted because that was part of, you know, like, the treaties and stuff that was signed and land   became part of Ukraine.  

And it it hurt. They had leave. They lost all of it. Right? It hurts the house. The beautiful garden. She's used to tell me about, like, these sunflowers. She's like, we used to carry them. They were like shields, like huge, like, very fertile soil. And so that is something that, you know, at the whim of government, strike of a pen,   taken away, like, this whole family legacy, generational wealth, maybe. Who knows? You never know now anymore because it's gone. And so so, you know, as someone that's   partly Polish, you know, and maybe that will resonate. And and that's kind of like, you know, that that helps me understand Bitcoin because it is   family legacy that cannot be confiscated. Right? And and another story from my other grandparents' side, so from my mom's side, my grandpa's   grandpa was a famous Polish artist, and he still is.  

Right? And he had all these paintings in the house. But, again, when the bombings were happening, when they had to escape from their house, lock they locked it up,   because they had to go to a more safer place. And when they came back, it had been broken into and, like, anything of value was taken, including all the paintings.   And so every now and then, he would walk down the streets of Craco and see an art gallery and see the paintings that have been stolen. But, obviously, there's no, like, blockchain that you can, like, prove ownership or anything like that. It was just stolen, and he couldn't get it back. And it's just something that always kind of, like, stuck with them that, you know, it's, like, such a shame. And so, you know, I've I'm actually, like, Googled,   and occasionally something comes up. But it's a couple $1,000, so it's not, like, cheap to buy. Right?  

So it's it's it's sad. Right? Another, like, lost legacy.  

[01:01:13] Unknown:

So yeah. Well, you you just if you've got another minute or 2, I wanna just tap into that just a bit because,   you know, talking coming up with Rafa in this conversation and talking about,   oh god,   the open   the signature, you know, the putting like, how they're doing the electron the electric like, that Peter Todd did, and that's how they're doing this open   oh my god. What is it?   It open time stamp. Proof like, It's an open time stamp that Peter did, and that's how he did his,   so it's basically like a notary for,   you know, documents or things that you can put it on. And so   would that be   a solution for artists who have physical art or physical things where they're like,   this is you know, I'm the owner, and I made this cool painting, and then you could put some kind of a   a stamp on the block, you know, on the Bitcoin blockchain. It It would make sense against forgeries.  



[01:02:13] Unknown:

Uh-huh. I don't know how you would actually prove that. Like okay. So in the facts, it it can be a little bit harder. Right? Because it's like, did you sell it or did you not sell it? There's some sort of transaction,   sorry, transaction that's like an atomic swap for, like, the painting versus or I guess it's on on the blockchain. So maybe at the same time, money changes hands to, like, the wall. That's more provable. Right? It's a little bit more challenging, but you can always prove that you owned it at some point,   right, by having your keys for that wallet. So there is a little bit of that. It's the actual like, was there a sale or was this like taken? That's the harder part. But at least you can always say yes, I I owned it. Or, yes. This is authentic. Here is, like, the original like, I am the creator. So I think from that perspective, it could be useful.  



[01:02:57] Unknown:

I think it's interesting. I mean, it's definitely an interesting thing when you think of legacy, like,   you know, things that you wanna give to your children or, you know,   anything that you want to   to I don't know. I I wanna, you know, I wanna think about this a little bit more. Yeah. I'll ask him,  

[01:03:13] Unknown:

because There are certain use cases, I think. And I think we're kinda moving towards that, but I think too, it's just, like, whole, like, identities and, you know, how people are going into Noster. Like,   what is yours is yours. Do I have to show everything, like   like, something like a zero knowledge proofs, right, where where I just prove that I'm of age, not that necessarily you have to see every single thing about me, like, my address,   you know, because it's kinda creepy. Like, you're showing everybody just all these documents and that Yeah. Governments every now and then are getting hacked and and not encrypting data. So so I think there are better ways of handling things like our own identities,   like ownership.  

I just don't wanna spam the blockchain with too many things. Like  

[01:03:54] Unknown:

Yeah. And that's some of the questions that I wanna pose to him because that's one of my concerns too is, like, are we gonna is it gonna get bloated over time if we start getting these use cases here, or is there a better place for this that we don't need it to be on, you know, on Bitcoin?   But I do like thinking in terms of, you know, how are we coming out of this old system into a new system so we can protect   our our generational wealth, you know, and I think that's in in different formats. Right? And so I think that's cool. Well, dude,   thanks for spending all this time with us. And everybody who's listening. I hope you guys got to learn a little bit about how to recycle tire waste into Bitcoin.  

My mind is going crazy thinking about this too because I'm like, well, what else can we do? You know? And I love just how can we keep   vacuuming up all the toxic stuff that's out there that's hurting the earth and convert it into something useful,   then obviously, one of the most useful things is sound money   and hugs. But  

[01:04:54] Unknown:

Think about, like, self sovereignty. Right? So now we have, like, the self sovereign money. But,   if you're looking at you know, not every country is blessed with natural resources, but we all have waste.   Right? That's right. Your you have, like, an your own energy supply that you haven't tapped yet. Right? Like, those tires, those plastics   are an untapped   fuel reserve,   so we can help monetize. Right?  

[01:05:18] Unknown:

Totally. I love it. It's so cool. I know I've I've,   my friend who lives down the street's got a regenerative   farm, and we're starting to try to think about, you know, all of her compost that she has for CSA boxes, and she's got to let she's a freaking genius.   But just how to get them on Bitcoin and circular economy, and it's like Yeah. How do we keep everything in the stream   continuing to get used and used and used for productivity   and for for food or for whatever it is that we're doing? So I love this mindset, and I love we have so much to learn from each other. You know? We have so much to learn from these, you know, different sectors of life, and I'm hoping   to continue, like you said, telling stories,   you know, that are meaningful, that can build bridges, you know, that can build the solutions together so that we're not just like, oh, you're you think climate change is the who cares? It's like, let's get rid of the methane. It's not a good thing to have methane out. Don't worry about all the other narratives that you wanna go be polarized about. Let's just clean up the things that are dirty. Yeah. I think it's great.  

Well, thank you so much, and I love you, and I can't wait to hug you. Maybe I,   god willing, maybe I'll get to go to Poland. That would be amazing.   I know. I love those guys at Bitcoin Film Festival. They did a whole wonderful event at Madera. It was fantastic to get to see everybody's,   you know, the clips and the trailers that they were doing. I got to do a panel with,   with Kanute and John Vallis and Brad Mills, and we were talking about strategizing Bitcoin culture and just you know, it was just great to get to talk with those guys, and I feel so honored to to   get to be on the journey with all of you. So,   yeah, it's really, really awesome. So, Mags, thanks for being with me. And everybody who's tuning in, thanks for tuning in to Bitcoin for Peace. I'm your host, DJ Valor Beloved, and thanks, Mags, for showing up and sharing all of your magic. So until next time, everyone. Peace, love, and warm aloha. Yay.  



[01:07:11] Unknown:

Yeah.