In this engaging episode, we welcome Nifty Nei, a unique force in the Bitcoin community, known for her innovative approach to making Bitcoin accessible and understandable. Nei shares her excitement about an upcoming event in Brazil and her ambitious plans for 2025. She delves into her journey into Bitcoin, highlighting her background in business and liberal arts, and how her curiosity led her to coding and eventually to Bitcoin development. Nei discusses her work at Cash App and Blockstream, and her passion for the Lightning Network, emphasizing the importance of peer-to-peer digital transactions.
Nei also talks about the challenges and rewards of being a woman in the predominantly male Bitcoin development space. She shares insights into her educational initiative, Base58, which aims to teach the engineering behind Bitcoin to empower individuals and maintain Bitcoin's decentralized nature. The conversation touches on the importance of understanding Bitcoin's protocol for true consensus and the empowering nature of education in this field.
The episode highlights Nei's innovative workshop, a hands-on game that demystifies Bitcoin transactions, making them accessible to both novices and experienced developers. This workshop is a testament to her commitment to education and her belief in the power of understanding Bitcoin's mechanics.
Finally, Nei discusses her role in organizing Bitcoin++ events, which aim to bring together developers from around the world to collaborate and innovate. She shares her vision for these events as platforms for learning and community building, emphasizing the importance of technical and open-source contributions to the Bitcoin ecosystem.
https://x.com/niftynei
@btcplusplus
@base58btc
https://btcplusplus.dev/
https://base58.info/
🔥 LISTEN TO EPISODE HERE
(00:00:30) Introduction and Guest Welcome
(00:00:51) Nifty Nye's Journey into Bitcoin
(00:03:51) Understanding Bitcoin and Its Unique System
(00:07:34) The Importance of Peer-to-Peer Transactions
(00:12:45) The Bitcoin Community and Independent Thinking
(00:16:59) Women in Bitcoin and Tech
(00:24:52) Base58 and Bitcoin Education
(00:31:30) The Bitcoin Workshop Game
(00:42:33) Bitcoin++ Events and Global Reach
(00:49:32) Funding and Supporting Bitcoin Projects
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[00:00:30]
Unknown:
Oh, good. Okay. Awesome. Hey. Oh my gosh. Hey. Aloha, love tribe. What is up? Yay. Guess who I have in the house with me? I have somebody here who is making people understand in the most fun way how Bitcoin works with hands on, obviously, with development, with coding, and she's got a new project that she's working on. And I'm so excited to have Nifty Nye with me. Welcome, beautiful. How are you?
[00:00:58] Unknown:
Hey, Valerie. I've been better. I've been a little sick this week, So I do look a little tired, but I'm doing good. We're doing good. Getting ready for a really amazing event that I think we're gonna have in Brazil next month. So I'm really excited about that as well as trying to just get 2025 planned, man. There's a lot of stuff happening.
[00:01:17] Unknown:
Dude, there's so much stuff happening. When you told me about your calendar for the year, I was like, okay. I guess I gotta start getting my calendar out too. But let's like, for for my audience, I know a lot of people already know who you are, but I would love for you to kinda, give a backstory of, like, who you are and how you got into Bitcoin. And, like, what what's your mission right now? Like, how are you helping, you know, move the needle forward on Bitcoin and Bitcoin adoption and and what you're doing? Because I think you are somebody who's you, you're like, you're like the, the, the double unicorn, in my opinion. Because first of all, a lot of women are not in Bitcoin. And so, yay, you're a woman in Bitcoin. You're an entrepreneur in Bitcoin. So that's even another thing. And you're a developer and a coder. And so you're you're very, very, very rare. Like, you really are. You're like a rare diamond. So I would love for everybody to understand, you know, what your dream is, what your mission is, and how you got here.
[00:02:12] Unknown:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think I've always been like I mean, I ended up in Bitcoin because I've I've always been really curious. I really like learning about how systems work, and Bitcoin's just such a new, interesting, different system than any other system that exists in the world, if that makes sense. Like, You know, I had friends that would explain. So I I got into coding kind of on my own. Like I mean, I say that, but, like, my mom also, like, went to school for programming, and my older sister did programming. And I was, like, the I was the I was the middle kid who was a little bit of a black swan and didn't want to be a coder or an engineer. And so I went to school for business and liberal arts. So I studied languages, and I studied, like, accounting in college and not how computers work.
But, you know, that, like, eventual curiosity kinda comes back at you. And I really like technology because it's a way that it, like, can change the way that people interact or, like, your ability to move through the world. You know, 1 of the first projects that I tried building on my own was a app for it was an Android app for the Sao Paulo subway. So I wanted to be able to, when I got to a subway station, have a map on my phone so I would know where to leave the subway so I wouldn't have to look like I was lost and maybe get in trouble. You know? That sounds weird. Right. Right.
[00:03:34] Unknown:
And was this the earlier Bitcoiner?
[00:03:37] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. This was back in 2010, '20 11/00. So a long time ago now. Yeah. I mean, it's funny to think I coulda gotten in Bitcoin at that time, but did it? You know? It was like a yeah. But I I found out about Bitcoin from my hacker friends in New York. I was living in New York going to this place called Hacker School. I guess I I stayed in New York. Anyways, but they would tell me about how Bitcoin worked, and they'd explain how proof of work mining works, which is just, like, the most weird revolutionary thing, if that makes sense. There's, like, literally nothing else in the world like how Bitcoin works with proof of work. Yeah. It is it is a 1 of 1. You know, you call me a unique diamond unicorn. Bitcoin is the same way. Maybe that's what attracted me to it. No. I'm kidding. Totally.
Yeah. But I didn't really get into Bitcoin until I got hired at Cash App to work on their back end. It's like just to be a normal engineer. I didn't wanna I worked in Android for about half a decade. I was an Android engineer on, like, product stuff, which is really more, like, product focused building. I worked at Etsy for a while. That was really fun. I got bored of writing Android, so I was looking for my next thing. And I got hired at Cash App, and it just so happened that they were putting engineers onto their Bitcoin team. So that became my opportunity to learn more about Bitcoin as the protocol worked. Wow. Yeah. And then I managed very quickly to figure out how to send an email to the right person so that I could get hired at Blockstream to work on Lightning. So then I worked in Lightning for about five years now.
Yeah. So So I've been in Bitcoin since 2018 now officially. I bought my first Bitcoin on the Cash App and I think $15,000 and then immediately watched it plunge back down to 3 k. And it's like Oh god, dude.
[00:05:27] Unknown:
What was that like? I mean, I haven't been in Bitcoin that long. This will be like, I'm going on on it'll be almost four years now. And, so I didn't have that like, oh, getting for 3,000, 10 thousand, 5 thousand. Like, that must have been like a monster. Like, what the heck?
[00:05:43] Unknown:
I mean, it was a job, if that makes sense. Like, I mean, it's definitely a passion and a cure intellectual curiosity kinda thing, but it was also like I don't know how to explain it. It was like I wasn't like, it's not like I went up if I got all in on Bitcoin, I'd have more Bitcoin than I do now, but I think that's normal for most people when they say that. Right? And Yeah. Of course. I think it's 1 of those things where it was like, I bought it because it was like a thing that I could hold in the Cash App and, like, I don't know.
I do remember. So I was working at Blockstream by and people at Blockstream had been through more cycles. Right? This was, like, the third cycle at this point. And by your third cycle, you kinda figure out what's going on. But it it takes a long time, I think, for people to for you. It takes, like, a long time to, like, see how those cycles work and what it means when it crashes and when it goes up and that kind of stuff. So I was, like, completely clueless, if that makes sense. I was just like I don't know. It was just it was, like, kinda funny. You know, you buy, like, $5,000 worth of Bitcoin, and then it goes to, like you know, crashes all the way down to being worth, like, almost nothing. You're like, oh, that was fun. Alright.
[00:06:51] Unknown:
Okay. Here's the cross cable.
[00:06:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. And I was like, well, I mean, like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm still working in Bitcoin. Bitcoin's really cool. You know, I was never really there for the money aspect of it. And the fact that it the price went up and down was always just kind of this, like, novel, like, almost like something that everyone else was always talking about. But, like, for me, it was just like, well, okay. Like, alright. I mean, the protocol is still the same.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
And and what does it mean to you? Like like, for people who are listening who may not, you know, who might be kinda new to Bitcoin or, you know, they're nervous about the up and down and the fluctuation, or am I in here too late? Like, what is what is a Bitcoin network mean to you?
[00:07:34] Unknown:
That's a good question. For me, it's really and the reason that, like, you know, I I got into it and I'm really passionate about it, but particularly Lightning. Like, Lightning in particular, I think, is really good at this is, like, the ability to do transactions peer to peer digitally. So, like, digital cash. Right? Like Yeah. We are losing cash. Cash does not exist. Like, paper cash is not a thing that we as, like, citizens of almost any nation have access to anymore. You can't travel out of the country with it. Like, you know, they have these, like, strict, like, $10,000 cash rules. Like Yeah. Your ability to, like, give it to people. And this world is so digital now. Like, so much of how we interact with each other and do exchange or commerce and, like, our markets are all digital. Right? Like, Amazon's the biggest marketplace in the world probably, and it's digital. And so when you're making payments for Amazon goods like, if you're making payments in a market these days, it's probably gonna be a digital interaction, a digital exchange. Right? Yeah. You give them some sort of, like, promise to pay them through, like, credit card or whatever, and then they they they mail you the thing.
So the fact that Bitcoin is, like, this digitally native, like, first ever protocol that really figured out how to do peer to peer exchange in a decentralized way like that, that's really special. And I don't know. Yeah. It makes me excited to be able to work in this space. The other thing about Bitcoin, like, working at Blockstream, especially with, like, Christian Decker and Rusty Russell, and, like, all the really great there's, like, tons of so many amazing engineers in Bitcoin, like Greg Maxwell, Peter Wheeler, some of, like, the classics. But it's it's not even, like, the it's just the caliber and quality of engineering and really caring about, like, their work and the impact of their work and doing things the right way because it's the right way to do them, not because it's going to, like, earn them the most money or it's going to get the product shipped faster. Like, it's like, no. We need to, like, figure out how to solve this problem because it's a fun, interesting, hard problem. And if we figure out how to do this in the right most efficient way, that'll make Bitcoin usable by, like, millions more people and allow people to preserve their privacy while also keeping their Bitcoin safe.
I don't know. There's just, like, a lot of really cool interesting protocols. It's some really, really brilliant people, and it it wasn't just Satoshi. It's been over the past decade and a half, it's been, like, a huge cohort of brilliant people who really care about Bitcoin and, you know, this ability to transact peer to peer in a decentralized way, contributing to this project and making it better. And I don't know if that makes like, it's fun. It's a fun I guess it's like the community aspect, right, of getting to hang out with these really talented devs who share, like, my values for the most part. For the most part. Okay.
[00:10:31] Unknown:
I know. And I think about, like, low time preference, high time preference, and that's like you were just talking about that. And I think right now we're navigating, you know, certainly the younger generation is so used to like instant gratification, ship it, break it, do the whole thing instead of like, take some time like Michelangelo and make something that's like gonna be preserved for generations, you know? And I think that that ethos, that mindset is very, evident in Bitcoin and certainly with you guys who are building everything on the back end, you know? You're not just like, oh, let's just get it out, get it out, get it out. Let's make some money. It's like, no. We wanna make it last, and we wanna make it durable and solid and and un unfuckable with.
[00:11:17] Unknown:
You know? If things done right, we'll have their we'll make their own legacy, if that makes sense. Like, if you and I I feel like working with Rusty has been such a great opportunity for me because you do it the right way. You build it, like, such that it's really the best thing, the most usable, like, the most thought through, has the most care put into it. And it will become the thing that people will use and will value and treasure for, like, you know, years. Like, artist artisanship and craftsmanship isn't isn't dead, and it's still valuable. And it it is the only thing that makes this world a better place. It sounds like maybe not that, but, you know, like, it's like, you know, like, building a better quality product is is literally that's a way to grow a project rather than you know, there are a lot of ways to market, do marketing, etcetera, but, you know, quality over over all else.
And I think Bitcoin is a truly quality project, I guess, in saying. It has its warts. It's got its opportunities for brilliant people to come in and suggest improvements, etcetera. But, yeah, it's just a it's a pretty beautiful and impressive, like, protocol that Satoshi came up with. And, I think it's it is kind of like a honor to get to be able to work in that ecosystem and with people that care about it so much as they do and, really are mission driven rather than, like, anything else. So I think that's and, yeah, it's cool. It's a cool ecosystem.
The other thing about Bitcoiners, like, looking across the ecosystem and now that hang on. I it's like, just a second. I wanna come back to this thing you said about younger generation because I do think there's some interesting things to say about them, especially around, like, crypto in general and some of what we see in, like, politics these days with crypto, etcetera. But, the the people in Bitcoin across the board and maybe we can get into this more when we talk about, like, the workshop game that I've been working on for the last couple years. But they all tend to be, like, extremely independent thinkers. Right? Like, people don't get into Bitcoin without being a little bit of a sort of person that can make decisions for themselves. Right? Yeah. And those people tend to be the sorts of friends, the people that I wanna be friends with. Right? Or the sorts of people that are, like, the most interesting to spend time with and build a community with. And so it's like, okay. You know, you only get 1 life. You only get 1 opportunity to choose which community or which cult, so to speak, you join.
Yeah. Like, you know? And I like, I have a maybe a weird take on the modern world that the only way you're gonna survive is by joining a cult. Basically like picking a tribe, picking a community that you're part of and that you're building with and contributing to. So, like, you know, like and I I I don't know. I'm very I've been very happy in the Bitcoin community, because it is a lot of really smart, interesting people that care about the same things I care about and that tend to be, like, really good at making, you know, making their own decisions for the right reasons and wanting to do the right thing, both for themselves, but also for, like, their families and, like, their communities in the long run. So, like, of all the different types of communities that you could join that exist, and I think there's a lot of them these days. There's doomer cults.
There's, like, stuff in the news these days about some, like, rationalists that went crazy and are killing people. Like okay. Maybe that's a little dark. But, like, you know, there's the rationalist cults. There's the, like, crypto cults, like, you know, like, buy into a Bitcoin Ponzi scheme, doomeras stuff. There's the AI is gonna kill us all. There's AI is gonna save us. There's we're going to Mars. You know? Like, there's a lot of different people working on different projects. I don't know. I like, but I'm I'm pretty happy in the the Bitcoin ecosystem and community, which is, you know, building money that we can that we as, like, people can continue to interact and have exchange at commerce between each other without having to involve anyone else. And so private commerce is a thing that we're preserving.
[00:15:28] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that the a couple things just to touch on, like, the the cult thing, because we hear that a lot with people who are like, Oh my God, Bitcoin's a cult. It's like, everything's a cult, guys. And so just get used to it, okay? Whether it's politics, religion, I'm a carnivore, blah, blah, blah, whatever. You can go throw that label on it. But the reality is, like you said, it's a, as humans, like we have a survival instinct to be a part of a tribe, you know? And so it's like, which tribe do you want to be a part of? Do you want to be a part of the instant gratification tribe that doesn't understand how to build quality and, you know, take time to do things? Or do you wanna be a part of, the tribe, the cult, the community that is like, yeah, you've gotta do that proof of work. You've gotta take time. And it's like, you can't grow, a giant maple tree in twelve days.
Like, you can't keep digging up the seed and go, are you built are you growing yet? Are you growing yet? No, it takes time. And so so I think, you know, combining that mindset of, like, how nature takes time to grow, you know, forests and grow beautiful things, it's like, this is what I think Bitcoiners do. But we are also doers, you know, it's not just philosophizers and it's not just, okay, let's just be extractive with how we operate. Like, we really are, in my experience, and it seems like yours as well, like, we're like puzzle solvers and people who wanna, like, go, like, let's go make some cool shit, you know? And let's go make the world a better place with the cool shit that we're building and, you know, whatever it might be, you know. And so for you, like, again, like, I'm not like into the like, oh, men versus women or whatever, but you're obviously a female in the developer space. So I know just even going to any Bitcoin meetups, it's like me plus, you know, 40 dudes. And then when I go to like the Bitcoin, the devs meetups, it's me and 40 dudes. And so, you know, and so what is that like for you? Because I go because I just wanna listen and learn, but you're actually, like, doing something that, you know, involves, like, being a developer. Like, what's that like working, as 1 of the 1 of I mean, you pretty much are 1 of the only women and you're a leader, no less, you know, as a developer in in the Bitcoin space.
[00:17:45] Unknown:
You know, I think it's 1 of those things where, like, getting older is actually helpful. Like, if you, like, you know, given up experience under your belt, and you've seen a lot of the kind of patterns of interaction as being, like, a woman in a mostly masculine space, that there's very little of other people's behavior that surprises me these days, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, I did I entered engineering, which is definitely more masculine in terms of engineering than, you know, even iOS or web dev or, like, that kind of stuff. I feel like it was like it's harder when you're new because you don't realize that a lot of the kind of, I'm just gonna call it energy maybe, that other people put on your plate isn't about you. It's about them.
And their relationship to you as a woman in their space or their own ego or what they're hoping to get out of the space and how they hope that you can either support them or whatever. I don't know. So I think learning to, like, make it whatever interactions you end up having with people, not be less personal in some ways, but, like, kind of just getting a little bit of distance from someone. You know, it's not easy to be a minority in anything. Yeah. I've talked to, like, taking out with Will Kasserin, who's an incredible developer. Totally. I worked with him for a while on Core Lightning, and then he now does some really just amazing engineering over on the Nostra ecosystem.
Like, Will's gonna build the protocols and the databases and the data structures that Nostra needs to scale. Like, that is what he's working on. Right? I was talking to him, and he was you know, he kinda asked me this similar question. And he was like, I went to those, like, women this event that was, like, all women. I can't remember what it was. And he was like, well, that was just he was like, it just it was just it was weird. Like, there's just this, like, energy where you're like, oh, I'm different. So I don't know. I guess I'm saying you get used to it.
I also think, like, I was very, very lucky and that my career started at a place where I was not in the minority. So, like, I went to this thing called hacker school, and there was 40% women. That was my first engineering. Yeah. Well, I was part of the first cohort where they're like, we want more women. And I saw them kinda put it out. They're like, we want more women. And I was like, okay. I can go be a woman engineer. Like, you want more women? Like, sure. I will answer that call and show up. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I'm gonna do engineering stuff. You, like, want me there, I'll be there. So I think maybe that's a good thing if you're a community. I think there's a few things here that women tend to need to be invited if you want them to participate, and I think that men maybe don't realize that because most men, you don't have to invite. 1 thing that's been really interesting to watch, like working on Corelightning, for example, is men will just show up in my dance offering to help with stuff, offering to help with conferences, offering to help with anything that I say I need help with. They just, I think I don't know what it is about about being a guy because I'm I'm not 1. I don't know what that experience is like. But, it just seems like there's, like, the barrier to offering your, like, your desire to want to help to people, it just seems a lot lower. And so guys just don't seem to need invitations as much. They they reach out proactively. And not all of them. And if you're a guy who doesn't reach out proactively, you should.
If if you're a woman who's not reaching out proactively, you also should. Like, this is not, like, gender specific whatever. But, in general, like, there's a couple of women that work on correlating now. I'm 1 of them, and then Shahana is, like, kind of more she's definitely full time and works at Blockstream, but both of us basically had to be, like, asked to work on the project by Rusty. Rusty's like, no. No. You'll be good at this. And we're like, oh, I don't know. And he's like, no. No. You're gonna, like, try it, and it's gonna be good. And we're like, oh, okay. If you say so. You know? And I don't think that's in common. So and, like, I had heard about Bitcoin for years before I got into it, but I only got into it because I got, like, invited to work on it as a job, if that makes sense. So I don't know. I think, when you're thinking about, like, involvement in the space and if you're like, okay, how do we get more women?
Well, having more than 1 woman is always good, but that's kind of a chicken and egg problem to solve. But the other thing is I I really you do have to make, I think, an active effort to invite them to participate.
[00:22:14] Unknown:
I I love that frame because, like, you're right. A lot of women and I'm really, really pushy, And I'm kind of like, okay, I'm showing up. I'm knocking on doors. What can I do? You know, and I'm not a developer, but that's just my nature. But a lot of women are not that way. They're not like, Yeah, put me up on the stage and let me talk and give me a microphone or show me how to do the thing. And it's true. And I wrote an article a couple years ago, and I don't want to offend anybody, but it was actually a really good article, but it was called Sperm Consciousness.
And it was about like, you know, the difference between men and women. And because men, you know, have that like elbows out, they got to go get the egg, you know, and women are more receptive. And we're used to being like, okay, come to mama. You know, and so I always just wonder of, you know, like our natural energies or the traits of how we operate, you know, because men are out there just, you know, then they know, like, nobody's coming to save them. They have to go be that masculine energy, which we love. And, you know, and so for women to kind of get into this space, it is nice to have like that invitation. I just started hosting, and you should totally come, of course, anytime. We're doing at the Denver space, like, a monthly women's meetup, on the And the ladies love it because they're just like, oh, I can just chill.
And I'm not the only 1 in the room or whatever, and we can all just talk about stuff and it's not over my head and I don't feel uncomfortable asking questions. And so there's no and people are always like, Oh, there's not enough women in Bitcoin. I'm like, There's a ton of women in Bitcoin, but we don't need to go put a billboard out there and say that we're doing this. But the reality is, it's like we have a different way of engaging with Bitcoin, you know? And we think about like why Bitcoin is a great tool for peace, why Bitcoin is a tool for people to get out of abusive relationships, whether it's with a violent partner or a violent government, you know? And so women are interested in that kind of stuff. And so it's nice to have more, more colors of the rainbow in the conversation, I think. But again, like you still, like, what you're doing is very, very unique and rare.
Do you wanna talk about but I I wanna see, like, do you wanna what do you wanna talk about first? You wanna talk about, Bitcoin plus plus events? Do you wanna talk about Base fifty eight? You wanna talk about the workshop? Which 1?
[00:24:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's talk about base fifty eight in the workshop, but, I feel a little guilty because I have really great grand plans for base fifty eight, and we did an amazing work, I feel like, a few years ago. But within the last year, I've, like, it's been a little bit on the back burner while I've been working on event stuff. Can you tell people what like, so what is Base fifty eight? Yeah. So Base fifty eight is an engineering school I started, that's really focused on teaching people about how the Bitcoin protocol works for engineering students. The idea being that, you know, learning about Bitcoin and how it's engineered and how it's putting together and telling you, like, the engineering story behind Bitcoin, 1 makes you there's a couple of reasons for this. 1, understanding how it works makes you a much more powerful individual in the modern world because all of a sudden, you understand the knobs and levers that exist in Bitcoin that are up for you to change, places that you can innovate and add on to.
You understand why Bitcoin is the way it is. That gives you, you know, a new language to, like, be like, okay. Here's why we should change it to this way. Or, you know, when you're working on your own problems, you have this, like, really, I think, pretty solid engineering, understanding of another system that maybe you can apply to other things that you're working on. So, you know, studying good engineering only is helpful for other engineering that you wanna do. The other thing I think about understanding Bitcoin, which is, I think, so important for keeping Bitcoin a decentralized and a consensus based system, is that in order to talk about proposals to change Bitcoin, you need to understand what people are proposing.
And I would bet right now that of the proposals that people are making about how we wanna change or update Bitcoin, maybe 5 or less of the people that are even technical Bitcoiners really understand what is being proposed and presented. Right? And you can't have consensus, like, true consensus, without understanding. And so that's why it's like, no. I need to, like, start working on this education piece because Bitcoin needs to stay a consensus based system. People need to understand what they're agreeing to. You know, it's like in congress. You get these bills that are super long. No one knows what they're agreeing to, what's in it, etcetera. I don't know what that is. Hang on. I think someone's calling me in.
Sorry. Okay. Right. Yeah. So the whole idea is that having better education resources available that are really, like, well done and give people, like, that confidence that they understand it and the ability to, like, go out and, think, you know, think deeply about what's what changes are happening or what they wanna see Bitcoin move to and why that would be a good idea. That was kinda the reason for starting this goal and writing this stuff down. It was also, like you know, I was working on a project in Lightning where I really needed to understand how Bitcoin transactions work. And none of the resources out there were at the level that I needed them to be at. And it was like, okay. I'm just gonna write what I wish existed when I was working on this, and to make it into a, really make it into a what do you call it?
Just a good, like, record of how Bitcoin works. I don't know.
[00:28:25] Unknown:
And and and do you have do you feel like, because, obviously, I was an entrepreneur. You know? Like, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm working on a, a personal growth project. And I want to like build something on Noster where you can zap people and everything's, you know, over there, and we've got courses, etcetera. And so, so Austin from Plebdevs is doing some stuff. So I was like, Oh, can I just white label what you're doing and kind of put my content in and just beta it? And so I think as entrepreneurs too, who are, you know, we're still doing the same stuff that we're doing over in like legacy or the fiat system.
It's like how much is enough to know? Because we can obviously go down all these rabbit holes of like, Oh, well, how does this work? And how does this transaction go? And what's the thing? You know, what do you think is like a good bare minimum for people to understand? Like, this is what's out there for you to, you know, integrate into your, you know, whether you're a consultant or a coach or an educator or whatever. Like, what's the bare minimum that you think? Or, you have ecommerce. You know? You're trying to sell stuff. Right? Like, what's the bare minimum for folks to, understand Bitcoin and and, you know, how Lightning's laws could work?
[00:29:42] Unknown:
Yeah. This is a really good question I don't have a good answer to. I'm not I'm not really sure. But I would say that this kinda starts getting into, like, why I made the workshop, if that makes sense. Mhmm. So the workshop is this hands on, in person, two hour game or, like, I don't know, classroom activity that really lets you understand whenever you're making an on chain Bitcoin transaction what's happening. 1 of the nice things about knowing what's happening is that I think it gives you power and confidence when you're using the system to receive payments as someone who's vendor or using the system to, like, hold it part of your corporation's wealth as, like, a corporate treasury.
You really have, like, a better understanding of where your Bitcoin sit in the ecosystem, like, in the system. And makes also like, again, like, Bitcoin is not like anything else that exists. It's not like you can you know, every I mean, the thing what's great about it is everyone comes in at the same power level, so to speak. But, it means that there's a lot of new stuff to learn. And so what I really like about this workshop that we put together, we call it the bit it used to be called the LARP, so maybe you've heard of the base fifty eight LARP before. We renamed it at the beginning of this year because I wanted it to be
[00:31:03] Unknown:
a little more accessible when you hear the name. Like, oh, that's something that I wanna do or try out. Do you have the the box with you? Like, are you I don't know where you're at. No. They're all at the office, and I'm in the office. Okay. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Can you tell people like what, like, because when I got to go visit you in Dec. 0, I think it was, and you took some time to show me what was up. I was like, Oh my God, this is so cool. Like, I can touch a Bitcoin transaction. Like, how does this work with the string and everything? Like, you really Yeah. You touched on a different learning style and a different personality because there's obviously, you know, folks who can look at, you know, charts and graphs and see stuff or they can read a giant white paper document, whatever. And okay, great, they got it. But then there's those of us who are like, I'm a visual learner or I'm a tactile learner, you know, and I need to feel it. And so how did you come to this? Like, because it's really remarkable what you created. And I just, I want to, because I don't think you're selling it enough.
Not that you're selling it, but like, it's a really amazing, kit that you anybody here, whoever's listening on, we've got, I guess, three forty one people watching right now, 45. Yay. I love you guys. Like if you're doing a Bitcoin meetup, if you're doing an after school program, if you just want this for yourself, like you can order this kit and, and you can learn like how Bitcoin transactions are made, you know, and and play a game and do it. And how they get mined and how they get in the block and where they, like, where they go and
[00:32:36] Unknown:
how do blocks get made. If I make a Bitcoin transaction, how does it get into a block? These are all questions that everyone should know. This should not be secret alpha or, like, private information. Like, every school kid should know how Bitcoin works because it is going to be the backbone of our financial system. Yeah. And it's going to be the system, hopefully, that we use to transact peer to peer in the future. Right? Like, anyway so, yeah, you kinda asked where the game came from. A friend of mine got me into this personality types thing over COVID called Myers Briggs. Yep.
Maybe some of your listeners are familiar with. I took my first Myers Briggs test in college. And there's a certain like, the way that Myers Briggs works is it kinda divides you up based on are you introvert or extrovert? How do you learn how do you experience the world? Do you experience it through, like, frameworks and, like, white papers, or do you experience it through senses? Like, this is a beautiful flower. This is a new like, a delicious meal. You know? How do you make decisions? Do you use your feelings to make decisions, or do you use thinking to make decisions? And then the last 1 is do you spend more time making decisions, or do you spend more time experiencing the world? It's kinda like the 4 letters.
Yep. So most Bitcoiners tend to be, something that you call intuitives, which are they tend to really understand more abstract thinking patterns. Like so understanding Bitcoin is something that you really need to be more of an intuitive to really get. But if we want Bitcoin to be accessible to the majority of the population, which is not that, and even kids. Right? You really need to make a system that makes it sensory, that brings it into something that you can touch. There's a really famous math program, which I think is like the signaporian math system, which is famous for how well students that do this program come out for, like, learning math. What is the first year, though?
I think it's a Singapore, like, math Singapore? Singapore. Okay. Yeah. Like, the Singapore, like, national math, like, curriculum. Okay. It's pretty famous, I think, for like, but the very first year, it's all about touching things. Like, before you get in because math is, like, like this. Right? It's a very like, you can touch objects and see them put them together as addition and take them apart as subtraction. But as you go up the curve on math, it gets very abstract, and it's very, like, in your head, numbers, charts, figures, whatever. Right? So this is like, okay. Bitcoin is kind of at that other end of the mass Birkner curve of, like, this up in your head number chart figure. Like, how does proof of work work? I don't know. There's machines, and they're, like,
[00:35:24] Unknown:
doing stuff. Going on in the black box over there that I don't get. Yeah. And I'm I don't know. Right? Yeah.
[00:35:31] Unknown:
So the idea was that we would try and bring it all the way down to your hands. So the whole make all of Bitcoin, the entire on chain. So it's the most accurate to exactly how Bitcoin works, hands on activity that you can do. Generally, run it with, like, 10 to 20, but you can have up to, like, 40 or 50 people doing it at the same time. And it's really fun because you learn about what is decentralized computing. What does it mean for to be on a decentralized network? What does it mean to have proof of work? What does it mean to verify a block? What does it mean to be looking for, like, an aunts or whatever? Yeah. So it's like a very, like, cool hands on paper and pencil.
You have little baskets for putting your transactions in. So if you've ever been to mempool.space, we learn about what the mempool is. Independent of that, we learn about what a coinbase is. It's not an exchange. They just stole the name from Bitcoin. We learn about all the parts of what makes Bitcoin work. Where did a new Bitcoin come from? How do miners make money? Like, that kind of thing. But it's all on pen pen and paper. It's you have to be able to do some math, and it is a bunch of steps, like, kind of accounting stuff because at the end of the day, Bitcoin really is an accounting system.
[00:36:52] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a ledger. And and and but people it's it's such a they think it's so much more scary than it is, and it's I mean and I get intimidated. I know when you showed me that, the way that it was working, I was like, okay. Do it again. I don't I don't get it. Like, you know? And and I think that's just that's normal because like you said earlier, it's like there's nothing like this. Our brains don't have like a comparison thing to go, oh, well, this is similar. There's nothing that's been created on Earth like this ever. And so at least to the scale, obviously. And and so I think it's, you know, it's like being patient, you know. Like, I was talking with somebody this morning who, he's a big music festival producer. We were talking about, like, trying to get, like, some Zapathon type stuff during some of his things so that some of his artists can get some splits and they can learn about Bitcoin. And and he's, like, a really, really intelligent, creative man. And he's just, like, I'm kind of scared of Bitcoin. Like it, I don't know what to do. I just get a little Bitcoin and it goes over here and I'm like, and I'm like, yeah, dude, it doesn't have to be scary. Like it's totally fun and it's cool and creatives kind of interpret it in a certain way you know, because they have a use case in addition to, you know, store value. It's like, woah. You can do lightning splits or whatever and get oh my gosh. Like, everybody, my sound guy, my guitar player, my drummer, we all just got some zaps. And and look, we get to all go out and buy some beer or whatever, you know? Like so I think it's just like, you know, whoever we're speaking with, it's like a it's a fun exercise in empathy and compassion and trying to understand, like, where they're coming from and, like, the fact that you created this beautiful this workshop, this game, you know, because that creates a lot of empathy for people who wanna touch things, you know, and not just look at the screen. So I'm just like,
[00:38:45] Unknown:
you are Right. Yeah. I do like, so I have a lot of devs. So the really fun thing about the game is it's so accurate to the protocol that, like, newbies have a lot of fun because they get to learn how it works and it like, it's doable. Like, you could touch the things. It's like, just follow the things. You will you will be successful. But, like, very experienced Bitcoin core devs have a lot of fun because they're like, oh my god. This is the protocol that I work on. Like, this is fun. I'm gonna try and break the game now because I know how the things work. But, yeah, I think it's rare to come up with a level of game that just, like, crosses that many levels of experience, and anyone who comes to it has a good time.
I think it's funny that you mentioned the fear thing because I've definitely it's 1 of my favorite things about teaching because, like, you know, my Bitcoin transactions class is is challenging, but it's also doable if you can do it. It's hard, but, like, you know, but it's so much fun to watch people come over their fear. And, like, the the other side of it is, like, so much, like, joy and empowerment and, like, oh, that's what's going on. I'm like, oh, I'm on the other side of this, like, thing that I really was curious about but didn't know how to get to the right, you know, just how to get my my questions answered. I didn't even know what questions to ask.
Yeah. So, like, we did a I did a a workshop in New York a few years ago for some of the people that now were I think it was the generation Bitcoin crew. I don't know if they're still doing it, but this is a few years ago. And they brought their families, like their aunts and uncles and moms and dads. And there may be, like, fifteen, twenty of us in, like, a small room in New York. And you just see, like, the kind of fear on these people's faces of, like, like, they know Bitcoin is complicated. They know they don't understand Bitcoin. Right? Like, it's they they know they don't know it, and that's kinda all they know. And that's enough to be scary.
And so, like, then it's so much fun to like, there's, like, there's a part where you stamp a, a a card with, like, an accepted thing before you so when you have a transaction, you have to validate the transaction before you put it in your mempool. And when you finish validating it, you stamp it with an approved, if that makes sense. There's, like, a stamping thing. And it was so much fun to watch, like you know, these people who come in scared, they start going through it. Their eyes light up when they hit that approve thing because it's just such a nice thing to be able to, like, stamp, like, a physical stamp. Like, oh, I got it. And then later in the game, someone had a transaction, and they were trying to put it in a basket, which stands for the mempool, but they hadn't verified it yet. And this person that had so much fun, like, verifying it was like, no. No. No. No. No. You can't. I gotta, like, stamp it first. It must be stamps. Like, you didn't go through the rules. Like, I am now and, like, you know, it's just fun to watch people, like, you know, not assume responsibility, but, like, they do like, they learn the system, and they get excited about it. And then it's like they're like, no. You gotta, like, follow the rules. Like, there are rules about how this works. Like, I don't know. It's just it's really it is really fun. You know, they go from being scared to, like, all of a sudden, like, master and commander of, like, this particular part of the world.
[00:41:59] Unknown:
Well, in in the fact that you're pretty Yeah. And it's like because you're you're you're I don't I don't I don't I'm gonna make up a word. You're you're human humanifying the experience because you're, you know, you're allowing the people to be like the machines. And, like, this is your role if you're do you know? And so so that is a really cool thing because we do we get we feel disconnected and uncertain and, like, I don't you know? And so the fact that you brought it down to this level where the individuals get to participate and be part of the the experience that way.
It it's just it's it's unique. It like I said, you're you're a double unicorn. You're not just a unicorn. You're a double unicorn. And that's I just love that about you. And so okay. So let's tell people, like, what's going on for you in the events because I wanna honor your time. I know, you you know, you said you hadn't been feeling so great. So I wanna I wanna I wanna honor you. What's going on? I've got we've got we've got BTC plus plus events coming up in Brazil.
[00:42:59] Unknown:
Yeah. So not just, like, you know, I this Bitcoin, this cool stuff is amazing, and I've got you know, we've got a lot of cool stuff happening there. Hopefully, more this year depending on how I'm able to, like, spread my time out. But I also run this event series called Bitcoin plus plus, which is an international Bitcoin conference series for technical and open source contributors. We're the most international, I think, Bitcoin conference that exists. We did 3 events in 3 different countries last year. We were in Austin, we were in Buenos Aires, and we were in Berlin. This year, I got a little ambitious, and we're gonna try and do 6 events in 6 different countries.
[00:43:40] Unknown:
I might be dead at the end of the year. They're not you're gonna no. No. No. Dude, you're gonna have all of us. We're we will be the wind beneath your wings. Okay? We will help you.
[00:43:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Either either Bitcoin plus plus deals or, Bitcoin plus plus dies. We will find out. No. It's a sink or swim year, I think. But no. But it's really great. I mean, the only reason I'm doing this more of this many events is because it made sense, which sounds crazy, but it was like there it feels like there's community, and there's people in all these places that will make it such that I can be successful at running an event there. And, yeah. So we're gonna we're doing it. We're, yeah, we're going to Brazil next month. This is our so Bitcoin plus plus, traditionally, every event has a theme. The very first one that we did, I invited all of the Bitcoin educators that I knew.
Most of them actually happen to live in Austin, which is fun. And then we've covered privacy with on chain privacy, which is kinda like coin joins, that kinda stuff. We did layer twos before layer twos were cool. We did eCash last year. But yeah. So in Brazil, we're gonna be working on hacking attackathon. It's the longest event we've ever done. It's gonna be four days. We're gonna two days of workshops and lectures and then two days of hacking and building. I'm really excited. I think 1 of the things about the Bitcoin plus plus brand, which is 1 of my favorite things about it, is that I feel like we do as best a job we can at getting both local Bitcoiners from the local community who are building and working in Bitcoin to come and show what they're working on, as well as getting Bitcoiners from all over the globe to come and share what they're working on with that local community, if that makes sense. So I'm super excited about the Bitcoin plus plus in, Fortinopolis because we're getting people from all kinds of great projects are gonna come.
Supertestnet's gonna come down. We've got this guy named Stu from CBD who's been working on some really fun stuff with covenants he's gonna show off. We've got Nicholas Goldin who's working on an independent implementation of the lightning protocol. He's a Brazilian who gets to come show off his work. Yeah. I'm just yeah. I'm I'm very, very excited about doing it in Brazil. It's gonna be our first Brazil event. Vincium, which is the largest Bitcoin nonprofit in Brazil, is a huge sponsor of the event. They're, they're gonna be sending they're doing their first ever residency program, and they're going to be sending, pretty much, like, all of the students in the Residie to it. So it'll be great. They're gonna meet all these great people from all over the world who are coming to Brazil, which is it's very it's kinda difficult to convince people to come to Brazil, let me tell you, because it's a long flight for them.
I learned that devs don't like long flights, which is fine. I, like you know, like like, I travel a lot, and I'm kind of at the point where, like, I will hop on a plane and, like, be like, oh, twelve hour flight. Okay. Guess we're gonna be in the seat for a while. Like, I just don't even think about, like, how long is it I need to go to this place. I'm just gonna go. Right? But I found that most people aren't like that. They, like, actually don't like. They like they're like, no. I don't wanna sit on twelve for a plane for twelve hours. Not just 1, but, like, two eight hour flights. Anyways, so, but we got people coming, which I'm very excited about. So it should be it should be good.
Yeah. We got people coming over from Argentina. I'm blanking out on who else is. There's lots of I think 1 of my friends, Jeff, who's working on this project called white noise for Nasr stuff has been really fun. I'm excited about pairing with him. My hackathon project is going to be helping Jeff figure out how to send his packets through the Lightning Network. No. Yeah. So, yeah, I've got a hack I'm gonna I'm I'm hoping that I will be, have time so I can contribute to the hackathon stuff too and work on a project with people. So it should be fun. It's a beautiful city in Brazil. It's got gorgeous beaches. We're gonna be there in the summer, which is the nicest time to visit.
Hoping to be able to connect us really closely to the Bitcoin community there and as well as, like, the hacking community. Florianopolis just got named the number 1 city for startups in Brazil. So it's a huge Cool. Yeah. It's like a great it's like the it's the city, I think, to really be doing this kind of frontier of Bitcoin exploration.
[00:48:03] Unknown:
And so if people wanna participate, like, I mean, what because I'm not a developer and I'm not, you know, I'm not anybody who understands code. I'm a business person and I'm obviously a weirdo creative person. Like, you know, like, what would anybody who is in, you know, in my field, like, be like, would it benefit them to go to any of these kind of events, or is it more, like, developer events?
[00:48:28] Unknown:
I think our our main audience is really developers and people in the developer ecosystem. I'm like, yeah. I was like, if you're a VC and you wanna come meet people and you're looking for projects to invest in or if you are someone who want isn't technical yet but wants to be more technical, I think these are, like, definitely good projects and opportunities. But if you're just on the business side, it's probably gonna be a lot of over your head stuff. And, you know, if the devs come because it's their other dev friends that they get to hang out and talk with and
[00:49:03] Unknown:
Totally. How how do you I just like, you just brought up VCs, which I think is an important point. Like, for people who are, investors, you know, who wanna help move projects forward, obviously, you guys are gonna have, like, a plethora of these cool projects that people are working on. Like, how do folks get funding, you know, to go from, you know, oh, this is a great concept to, okay, let's go implement this thing and scale it and and make it a real bit, a viable business.
[00:49:32] Unknown:
I think that's where business people like yourself don't really come in. But, yeah, I haven't seen I have to be honest. Like, that part of the ecosystem isn't something that I've spent a lot of time thinking about or trying to get involved in. It's on my road map for this year to figure out a way that we can better serve the venture capital needs in Bitcoin. 1 of those things is, like, maybe it's a newsletter about where we're reporting on interesting things in Bitcoin and just kind of putting all the cool frontier stuff that we're showcasing at our conferences in the inbox of venture capitalists, etcetera. So it's, like, you know, how can we, as Bitcoin plus plus, better serve these projects?
Maybe it's making them more visible. I'd really love to get more VCs involved in sponsoring the event and funding the hackathon. So if you're a venture capitalist firm and wants to we're working on, like, maybe figuring out, like, you know or it's definitely on my to do list to figure out how Bitcoin plus plus can, like, serve VCs as, like, part of the ecosystem and our stakeholders. So 1 part of that would be, you know, if you're a VC, and I'd love to talk to you about how Bitcoin plus plus can be a better like, more useful to what you're trying to do in Bitcoin.
[00:50:58] Unknown:
And and, well, I think about, like okay. So we've got, like, Mike Moz, who's got Thunder Thunder and Lightning Ventures. Right? We've got, obviously, Jeff and those guys who are doing ego death. We've got, Wolf Accelerator. And so to me, you guys, it seems like chocolate and peanut butter. Like they should be somehow at the end of your hackathons there, whether it's virtually or in person, you know, and then having sort of a shark tank kind of thing, you know, have a bit tank and then have all of the folks you know what I mean? And then it's just like, hey, check it out. And then I don't know. I just feel like that's like a cool I always say chocolate and peanut butter when cool things mix, because of that old, you know, Reese's peanut butter cup thing. But I just wonder, like, that could be something that could because it's great that you're bringing all these folks together to do the hackathons and get their pro projects going, but then it's like, well, y'all need some money. Like, you need some money to help, like, put the the the fertilizer on the the seed so it can grow. So maybe that could be,
[00:51:59] Unknown:
I don't know. Or even getting OpenStats more involved in Totally. Yeah. Of course. You know? And so It's like the hackathon projects that people do aren't typically, like, a pitch competition. It's like, here's a thing that I've written a new protocol, or here's the way I've contributed to an existing open source project. So I think our hackathons tend to be a lot more engineering focused than product focused. Okay. Got it.
[00:52:24] Unknown:
Yeah. But, no, it's gonna be a product focused 1, and then that could help people with their their dreams. Like and I I don't know. I'm just I'm a nerd, and I'm always trying to No. So I'm hoping we'll have an announcement about that soon,
[00:52:36] Unknown:
doing a little more product with this hackathon for Bitcoin plus plus. But, traditionally, the ones that are events tend to be pretty, Yeah. I guess I have to go back. But, yeah, they tend to be pretty, like, protocol y focused.
[00:52:53] Unknown:
Is that true? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Which is super important because that's one one of the, 1 of the pieces of the puzzle. Right? 1 of the pieces of the temple or the masterpiece. Right? And so that's, like, the most important part. If that stuff doesn't work, your products and services aren't gonna work. Noted. So so I think that's super cool. So for anybody who's listening, if you can't see the screen, you guys can go to btc+plus,allspelledout.dev, and check out what's going on for, what's coming up in Brazil. And you've got something in Austin. I know you've got other events going on. Do you I'm working on the website. Yeah. Yeah. So check check the website out, you guys, and go, go if you guys are developers or if you wanna like, what would you say to somebody who's listening right now, who might be, like, a developer, but maybe not a Bitcoin developer or a Lightning developer or an Oster? Like, what would you say to them about coming to some of your events?
[00:53:50] Unknown:
You should do it. You should come. Come make friends. Come ask questions in person. Figure out I mean, I think that the coolest thing about coming to Bitcoin plus plus event is you get to see the level of engineering and, like, you know, that there are badasses working in the space that wanna answer your questions and help you figure out what they're doing. I don't know. I think it's I think it's good to go to things that you don't understand a % of that. Like, if you understand 10% of it, that's, like, completely a win. I mean, I remember going to my first bit devs when I started. Like, I got into Bitcoin and didn't really know anything, and I would go to these events and just be like, I don't know what these people are talking about.
But it changes. Right? Like, over time, you just keep showing up and you keep hearing things, and you ask questions, and you, like, figure out what they're talking about eventually. I think that's just part of the learning process. And I I like to think of Bitcoin plus plus event. Or, like, check out our like, we have a YouTube where we've been posting all of our talks. You should definitely, if you're able to, check that out. We do a couple panels so you can see what the panels are like, as well as more technical talks. Those are all I think that's also a great resource for figuring out who's working on what in the space.
[00:55:04] Unknown:
Cool. Okay. Awesome. So if you're listening, we've got four eighteen people right now listening, apparently. Like, if you're new developers or old developers, like, please make sure you guys go support, Nifty Nye and her projects and then get involved. And that's what the coolest part, right? Like, you don't need the invitation, like you said earlier. Just you're you're invited. The fact that it's happening means you're invited. Yeah. I think it's super cool. And then so for everybody, like, do you I noticed you're on Nostril, I think, a little bit more than on on x, but either 1. Like, people can find you on x.com, at niftynight, or on,
[00:55:43] Unknown:
on Nostr. You should follow both because they get, you know, independent content. No. I'm kidding.
[00:55:50] Unknown:
Right on.
[00:55:51] Unknown:
Okay. I don't know. Yeah.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
Okay. So any last thoughts or words for for our wonderful listeners and, you know, people who are getting involved in Bitcoin? How can people get like, if they wanna do, like, the Bitcoin at workshop, like, how can they get a hold of 1 of those boxes? This is, like, great. Send me an email at [email protected].
[00:56:11] Unknown:
I'm working on getting the website out. I've been saying this for over a year, but it's only gonna happen this time. Okay. Hold on. So it's [email protected]. Send me an email. We can send you 1. We have them in stock. I'm just really bad about it. We're working on the website. I don't know why it's taking I do know why it's taking so long, but busy with other stuff. But, yeah. I I would love like, 1 of my goals for this year would be amazing to get more workshops happening all around the globe, and in classrooms in America. I want every school student in America doing a the Quina workshop before they graduate. It would be like you know, if I had 1, like, wish for the workshop project, it would be that it is something that every American gets to experience before they turn 20, 20 1. I don't know.
[00:57:05] Unknown:
That is an awesome dream. Well, what about, like do you know, I mean, you have Daniel Prince, and he does all the stuff with homeschooling. And do you know, Scott and Tali? They have free market kids. They do a lot of stuff with homeschooling also. And then I don't know what he's doing, if he's still doing a lot of stuff, but there was a organization called B STEM, and they were doing like after school programs, kind of like STEM, STEAM education. So those 3 organization, obviously, Daniel, whatever, he's like all into the homeschooling world. Those could at least like start getting those folks getting, the Bitcoin workshop into their hands, so that they can do these projects with these kids, you know, in and out of school. I think that's like, it's super important and it's needed, you know, and they're always people are always looking for those kinds of projects, you know, for their curriculum and whatnot. And so this is obviously, right in alignment with all of these folks. So those could be some opportunities, you know, to get them in at least some hands.
[00:58:10] Unknown:
Yeah, that's a great idea. Cool.
[00:58:13] Unknown:
All right, sister, I am gonna wish you a sweet nap. I know you thank you for taking this time to to do this interview, and I know you're not feeling a a %. A lot of people have been this has been a a a Jan. 0 with people getting the flu or the cold or whatever, so I hope you get better soon. I've been yeah. Been joking with my friends. I caught bird flu now. But this is the most sick I think I've been since I got COVID in January 2021. I guess. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's it's, it's it's it's legit. So go go, I don't know, drink some bone broth, do whatever you do and feel better. And then I hope you guys have the best time seriously down in Brazil. That's gonna be such a great trip.
It's gonna be great. Yeah. Super cool. And thank you again so much. And thanks for all the work you're doing. And and I know, like, 98% of it is a giant labor of love. It's very difficult to do this work. You know, you're not making a trillion dollars being, a developer and doing all this stuff and as an educator. So I really, really honor you and appreciate the work that you're doing out there, and, it it's it's very well received and needed.
[00:59:22] Unknown:
Thanks, Valerie. Yeah. And, hopefully, we'll get to scale this year and see the community grow and the number of people that get impacted by it. And, you know, adoption of Bitcoin is on a monetary sense is 1 thing, but understanding of Bitcoin, I think, is the real, like, next level up. You know?
[00:59:41] Unknown:
It is. And it's like that that like you said, like, that conceptualization of, like, oh, this is how it works. And then you just have a little bit more confidence of, like, yeah, this is actually where I wanna direct my resources and energy versus this thing out here that I don't understand. And so I think the way that you're doing it is very, very useful to, to help people have that level of confidence. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah make sure you guys go follow, Nifty nine x and on Noster and go check out btc++.dev and, learn about Bitcoin. And you don't need an invitation. This is your invitation, so show up.
Yeah. I hope to see you all in Brazil. It's gonna be a really good time. Like, really good time. Yeah. For sure. Alright, hon. Thanks so much. Peace, love, and warm aloha to everybody. And thank you so much for taking your time. And I hope you feel so much better very soon.
[01:00:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Peace out. Take care. You too.
Oh, good. Okay. Awesome. Hey. Oh my gosh. Hey. Aloha, love tribe. What is up? Yay. Guess who I have in the house with me? I have somebody here who is making people understand in the most fun way how Bitcoin works with hands on, obviously, with development, with coding, and she's got a new project that she's working on. And I'm so excited to have Nifty Nye with me. Welcome, beautiful. How are you?
[00:00:58] Unknown:
Hey, Valerie. I've been better. I've been a little sick this week, So I do look a little tired, but I'm doing good. We're doing good. Getting ready for a really amazing event that I think we're gonna have in Brazil next month. So I'm really excited about that as well as trying to just get 2025 planned, man. There's a lot of stuff happening.
[00:01:17] Unknown:
Dude, there's so much stuff happening. When you told me about your calendar for the year, I was like, okay. I guess I gotta start getting my calendar out too. But let's like, for for my audience, I know a lot of people already know who you are, but I would love for you to kinda, give a backstory of, like, who you are and how you got into Bitcoin. And, like, what what's your mission right now? Like, how are you helping, you know, move the needle forward on Bitcoin and Bitcoin adoption and and what you're doing? Because I think you are somebody who's you, you're like, you're like the, the, the double unicorn, in my opinion. Because first of all, a lot of women are not in Bitcoin. And so, yay, you're a woman in Bitcoin. You're an entrepreneur in Bitcoin. So that's even another thing. And you're a developer and a coder. And so you're you're very, very, very rare. Like, you really are. You're like a rare diamond. So I would love for everybody to understand, you know, what your dream is, what your mission is, and how you got here.
[00:02:12] Unknown:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think I've always been like I mean, I ended up in Bitcoin because I've I've always been really curious. I really like learning about how systems work, and Bitcoin's just such a new, interesting, different system than any other system that exists in the world, if that makes sense. Like, You know, I had friends that would explain. So I I got into coding kind of on my own. Like I mean, I say that, but, like, my mom also, like, went to school for programming, and my older sister did programming. And I was, like, the I was the I was the middle kid who was a little bit of a black swan and didn't want to be a coder or an engineer. And so I went to school for business and liberal arts. So I studied languages, and I studied, like, accounting in college and not how computers work.
But, you know, that, like, eventual curiosity kinda comes back at you. And I really like technology because it's a way that it, like, can change the way that people interact or, like, your ability to move through the world. You know, 1 of the first projects that I tried building on my own was a app for it was an Android app for the Sao Paulo subway. So I wanted to be able to, when I got to a subway station, have a map on my phone so I would know where to leave the subway so I wouldn't have to look like I was lost and maybe get in trouble. You know? That sounds weird. Right. Right.
[00:03:34] Unknown:
And was this the earlier Bitcoiner?
[00:03:37] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. This was back in 2010, '20 11/00. So a long time ago now. Yeah. I mean, it's funny to think I coulda gotten in Bitcoin at that time, but did it? You know? It was like a yeah. But I I found out about Bitcoin from my hacker friends in New York. I was living in New York going to this place called Hacker School. I guess I I stayed in New York. Anyways, but they would tell me about how Bitcoin worked, and they'd explain how proof of work mining works, which is just, like, the most weird revolutionary thing, if that makes sense. There's, like, literally nothing else in the world like how Bitcoin works with proof of work. Yeah. It is it is a 1 of 1. You know, you call me a unique diamond unicorn. Bitcoin is the same way. Maybe that's what attracted me to it. No. I'm kidding. Totally.
Yeah. But I didn't really get into Bitcoin until I got hired at Cash App to work on their back end. It's like just to be a normal engineer. I didn't wanna I worked in Android for about half a decade. I was an Android engineer on, like, product stuff, which is really more, like, product focused building. I worked at Etsy for a while. That was really fun. I got bored of writing Android, so I was looking for my next thing. And I got hired at Cash App, and it just so happened that they were putting engineers onto their Bitcoin team. So that became my opportunity to learn more about Bitcoin as the protocol worked. Wow. Yeah. And then I managed very quickly to figure out how to send an email to the right person so that I could get hired at Blockstream to work on Lightning. So then I worked in Lightning for about five years now.
Yeah. So So I've been in Bitcoin since 2018 now officially. I bought my first Bitcoin on the Cash App and I think $15,000 and then immediately watched it plunge back down to 3 k. And it's like Oh god, dude.
[00:05:27] Unknown:
What was that like? I mean, I haven't been in Bitcoin that long. This will be like, I'm going on on it'll be almost four years now. And, so I didn't have that like, oh, getting for 3,000, 10 thousand, 5 thousand. Like, that must have been like a monster. Like, what the heck?
[00:05:43] Unknown:
I mean, it was a job, if that makes sense. Like, I mean, it's definitely a passion and a cure intellectual curiosity kinda thing, but it was also like I don't know how to explain it. It was like I wasn't like, it's not like I went up if I got all in on Bitcoin, I'd have more Bitcoin than I do now, but I think that's normal for most people when they say that. Right? And Yeah. Of course. I think it's 1 of those things where it was like, I bought it because it was like a thing that I could hold in the Cash App and, like, I don't know.
I do remember. So I was working at Blockstream by and people at Blockstream had been through more cycles. Right? This was, like, the third cycle at this point. And by your third cycle, you kinda figure out what's going on. But it it takes a long time, I think, for people to for you. It takes, like, a long time to, like, see how those cycles work and what it means when it crashes and when it goes up and that kind of stuff. So I was, like, completely clueless, if that makes sense. I was just like I don't know. It was just it was, like, kinda funny. You know, you buy, like, $5,000 worth of Bitcoin, and then it goes to, like you know, crashes all the way down to being worth, like, almost nothing. You're like, oh, that was fun. Alright.
[00:06:51] Unknown:
Okay. Here's the cross cable.
[00:06:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. And I was like, well, I mean, like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm still working in Bitcoin. Bitcoin's really cool. You know, I was never really there for the money aspect of it. And the fact that it the price went up and down was always just kind of this, like, novel, like, almost like something that everyone else was always talking about. But, like, for me, it was just like, well, okay. Like, alright. I mean, the protocol is still the same.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
And and what does it mean to you? Like like, for people who are listening who may not, you know, who might be kinda new to Bitcoin or, you know, they're nervous about the up and down and the fluctuation, or am I in here too late? Like, what is what is a Bitcoin network mean to you?
[00:07:34] Unknown:
That's a good question. For me, it's really and the reason that, like, you know, I I got into it and I'm really passionate about it, but particularly Lightning. Like, Lightning in particular, I think, is really good at this is, like, the ability to do transactions peer to peer digitally. So, like, digital cash. Right? Like Yeah. We are losing cash. Cash does not exist. Like, paper cash is not a thing that we as, like, citizens of almost any nation have access to anymore. You can't travel out of the country with it. Like, you know, they have these, like, strict, like, $10,000 cash rules. Like Yeah. Your ability to, like, give it to people. And this world is so digital now. Like, so much of how we interact with each other and do exchange or commerce and, like, our markets are all digital. Right? Like, Amazon's the biggest marketplace in the world probably, and it's digital. And so when you're making payments for Amazon goods like, if you're making payments in a market these days, it's probably gonna be a digital interaction, a digital exchange. Right? Yeah. You give them some sort of, like, promise to pay them through, like, credit card or whatever, and then they they they mail you the thing.
So the fact that Bitcoin is, like, this digitally native, like, first ever protocol that really figured out how to do peer to peer exchange in a decentralized way like that, that's really special. And I don't know. Yeah. It makes me excited to be able to work in this space. The other thing about Bitcoin, like, working at Blockstream, especially with, like, Christian Decker and Rusty Russell, and, like, all the really great there's, like, tons of so many amazing engineers in Bitcoin, like Greg Maxwell, Peter Wheeler, some of, like, the classics. But it's it's not even, like, the it's just the caliber and quality of engineering and really caring about, like, their work and the impact of their work and doing things the right way because it's the right way to do them, not because it's going to, like, earn them the most money or it's going to get the product shipped faster. Like, it's like, no. We need to, like, figure out how to solve this problem because it's a fun, interesting, hard problem. And if we figure out how to do this in the right most efficient way, that'll make Bitcoin usable by, like, millions more people and allow people to preserve their privacy while also keeping their Bitcoin safe.
I don't know. There's just, like, a lot of really cool interesting protocols. It's some really, really brilliant people, and it it wasn't just Satoshi. It's been over the past decade and a half, it's been, like, a huge cohort of brilliant people who really care about Bitcoin and, you know, this ability to transact peer to peer in a decentralized way, contributing to this project and making it better. And I don't know if that makes like, it's fun. It's a fun I guess it's like the community aspect, right, of getting to hang out with these really talented devs who share, like, my values for the most part. For the most part. Okay.
[00:10:31] Unknown:
I know. And I think about, like, low time preference, high time preference, and that's like you were just talking about that. And I think right now we're navigating, you know, certainly the younger generation is so used to like instant gratification, ship it, break it, do the whole thing instead of like, take some time like Michelangelo and make something that's like gonna be preserved for generations, you know? And I think that that ethos, that mindset is very, evident in Bitcoin and certainly with you guys who are building everything on the back end, you know? You're not just like, oh, let's just get it out, get it out, get it out. Let's make some money. It's like, no. We wanna make it last, and we wanna make it durable and solid and and un unfuckable with.
[00:11:17] Unknown:
You know? If things done right, we'll have their we'll make their own legacy, if that makes sense. Like, if you and I I feel like working with Rusty has been such a great opportunity for me because you do it the right way. You build it, like, such that it's really the best thing, the most usable, like, the most thought through, has the most care put into it. And it will become the thing that people will use and will value and treasure for, like, you know, years. Like, artist artisanship and craftsmanship isn't isn't dead, and it's still valuable. And it it is the only thing that makes this world a better place. It sounds like maybe not that, but, you know, like, it's like, you know, like, building a better quality product is is literally that's a way to grow a project rather than you know, there are a lot of ways to market, do marketing, etcetera, but, you know, quality over over all else.
And I think Bitcoin is a truly quality project, I guess, in saying. It has its warts. It's got its opportunities for brilliant people to come in and suggest improvements, etcetera. But, yeah, it's just a it's a pretty beautiful and impressive, like, protocol that Satoshi came up with. And, I think it's it is kind of like a honor to get to be able to work in that ecosystem and with people that care about it so much as they do and, really are mission driven rather than, like, anything else. So I think that's and, yeah, it's cool. It's a cool ecosystem.
The other thing about Bitcoiners, like, looking across the ecosystem and now that hang on. I it's like, just a second. I wanna come back to this thing you said about younger generation because I do think there's some interesting things to say about them, especially around, like, crypto in general and some of what we see in, like, politics these days with crypto, etcetera. But, the the people in Bitcoin across the board and maybe we can get into this more when we talk about, like, the workshop game that I've been working on for the last couple years. But they all tend to be, like, extremely independent thinkers. Right? Like, people don't get into Bitcoin without being a little bit of a sort of person that can make decisions for themselves. Right? Yeah. And those people tend to be the sorts of friends, the people that I wanna be friends with. Right? Or the sorts of people that are, like, the most interesting to spend time with and build a community with. And so it's like, okay. You know, you only get 1 life. You only get 1 opportunity to choose which community or which cult, so to speak, you join.
Yeah. Like, you know? And I like, I have a maybe a weird take on the modern world that the only way you're gonna survive is by joining a cult. Basically like picking a tribe, picking a community that you're part of and that you're building with and contributing to. So, like, you know, like and I I I don't know. I'm very I've been very happy in the Bitcoin community, because it is a lot of really smart, interesting people that care about the same things I care about and that tend to be, like, really good at making, you know, making their own decisions for the right reasons and wanting to do the right thing, both for themselves, but also for, like, their families and, like, their communities in the long run. So, like, of all the different types of communities that you could join that exist, and I think there's a lot of them these days. There's doomer cults.
There's, like, stuff in the news these days about some, like, rationalists that went crazy and are killing people. Like okay. Maybe that's a little dark. But, like, you know, there's the rationalist cults. There's the, like, crypto cults, like, you know, like, buy into a Bitcoin Ponzi scheme, doomeras stuff. There's the AI is gonna kill us all. There's AI is gonna save us. There's we're going to Mars. You know? Like, there's a lot of different people working on different projects. I don't know. I like, but I'm I'm pretty happy in the the Bitcoin ecosystem and community, which is, you know, building money that we can that we as, like, people can continue to interact and have exchange at commerce between each other without having to involve anyone else. And so private commerce is a thing that we're preserving.
[00:15:28] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that the a couple things just to touch on, like, the the cult thing, because we hear that a lot with people who are like, Oh my God, Bitcoin's a cult. It's like, everything's a cult, guys. And so just get used to it, okay? Whether it's politics, religion, I'm a carnivore, blah, blah, blah, whatever. You can go throw that label on it. But the reality is, like you said, it's a, as humans, like we have a survival instinct to be a part of a tribe, you know? And so it's like, which tribe do you want to be a part of? Do you want to be a part of the instant gratification tribe that doesn't understand how to build quality and, you know, take time to do things? Or do you wanna be a part of, the tribe, the cult, the community that is like, yeah, you've gotta do that proof of work. You've gotta take time. And it's like, you can't grow, a giant maple tree in twelve days.
Like, you can't keep digging up the seed and go, are you built are you growing yet? Are you growing yet? No, it takes time. And so so I think, you know, combining that mindset of, like, how nature takes time to grow, you know, forests and grow beautiful things, it's like, this is what I think Bitcoiners do. But we are also doers, you know, it's not just philosophizers and it's not just, okay, let's just be extractive with how we operate. Like, we really are, in my experience, and it seems like yours as well, like, we're like puzzle solvers and people who wanna, like, go, like, let's go make some cool shit, you know? And let's go make the world a better place with the cool shit that we're building and, you know, whatever it might be, you know. And so for you, like, again, like, I'm not like into the like, oh, men versus women or whatever, but you're obviously a female in the developer space. So I know just even going to any Bitcoin meetups, it's like me plus, you know, 40 dudes. And then when I go to like the Bitcoin, the devs meetups, it's me and 40 dudes. And so, you know, and so what is that like for you? Because I go because I just wanna listen and learn, but you're actually, like, doing something that, you know, involves, like, being a developer. Like, what's that like working, as 1 of the 1 of I mean, you pretty much are 1 of the only women and you're a leader, no less, you know, as a developer in in the Bitcoin space.
[00:17:45] Unknown:
You know, I think it's 1 of those things where, like, getting older is actually helpful. Like, if you, like, you know, given up experience under your belt, and you've seen a lot of the kind of patterns of interaction as being, like, a woman in a mostly masculine space, that there's very little of other people's behavior that surprises me these days, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, I did I entered engineering, which is definitely more masculine in terms of engineering than, you know, even iOS or web dev or, like, that kind of stuff. I feel like it was like it's harder when you're new because you don't realize that a lot of the kind of, I'm just gonna call it energy maybe, that other people put on your plate isn't about you. It's about them.
And their relationship to you as a woman in their space or their own ego or what they're hoping to get out of the space and how they hope that you can either support them or whatever. I don't know. So I think learning to, like, make it whatever interactions you end up having with people, not be less personal in some ways, but, like, kind of just getting a little bit of distance from someone. You know, it's not easy to be a minority in anything. Yeah. I've talked to, like, taking out with Will Kasserin, who's an incredible developer. Totally. I worked with him for a while on Core Lightning, and then he now does some really just amazing engineering over on the Nostra ecosystem.
Like, Will's gonna build the protocols and the databases and the data structures that Nostra needs to scale. Like, that is what he's working on. Right? I was talking to him, and he was you know, he kinda asked me this similar question. And he was like, I went to those, like, women this event that was, like, all women. I can't remember what it was. And he was like, well, that was just he was like, it just it was just it was weird. Like, there's just this, like, energy where you're like, oh, I'm different. So I don't know. I guess I'm saying you get used to it.
I also think, like, I was very, very lucky and that my career started at a place where I was not in the minority. So, like, I went to this thing called hacker school, and there was 40% women. That was my first engineering. Yeah. Well, I was part of the first cohort where they're like, we want more women. And I saw them kinda put it out. They're like, we want more women. And I was like, okay. I can go be a woman engineer. Like, you want more women? Like, sure. I will answer that call and show up. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I'm gonna do engineering stuff. You, like, want me there, I'll be there. So I think maybe that's a good thing if you're a community. I think there's a few things here that women tend to need to be invited if you want them to participate, and I think that men maybe don't realize that because most men, you don't have to invite. 1 thing that's been really interesting to watch, like working on Corelightning, for example, is men will just show up in my dance offering to help with stuff, offering to help with conferences, offering to help with anything that I say I need help with. They just, I think I don't know what it is about about being a guy because I'm I'm not 1. I don't know what that experience is like. But, it just seems like there's, like, the barrier to offering your, like, your desire to want to help to people, it just seems a lot lower. And so guys just don't seem to need invitations as much. They they reach out proactively. And not all of them. And if you're a guy who doesn't reach out proactively, you should.
If if you're a woman who's not reaching out proactively, you also should. Like, this is not, like, gender specific whatever. But, in general, like, there's a couple of women that work on correlating now. I'm 1 of them, and then Shahana is, like, kind of more she's definitely full time and works at Blockstream, but both of us basically had to be, like, asked to work on the project by Rusty. Rusty's like, no. No. You'll be good at this. And we're like, oh, I don't know. And he's like, no. No. You're gonna, like, try it, and it's gonna be good. And we're like, oh, okay. If you say so. You know? And I don't think that's in common. So and, like, I had heard about Bitcoin for years before I got into it, but I only got into it because I got, like, invited to work on it as a job, if that makes sense. So I don't know. I think, when you're thinking about, like, involvement in the space and if you're like, okay, how do we get more women?
Well, having more than 1 woman is always good, but that's kind of a chicken and egg problem to solve. But the other thing is I I really you do have to make, I think, an active effort to invite them to participate.
[00:22:14] Unknown:
I I love that frame because, like, you're right. A lot of women and I'm really, really pushy, And I'm kind of like, okay, I'm showing up. I'm knocking on doors. What can I do? You know, and I'm not a developer, but that's just my nature. But a lot of women are not that way. They're not like, Yeah, put me up on the stage and let me talk and give me a microphone or show me how to do the thing. And it's true. And I wrote an article a couple years ago, and I don't want to offend anybody, but it was actually a really good article, but it was called Sperm Consciousness.
And it was about like, you know, the difference between men and women. And because men, you know, have that like elbows out, they got to go get the egg, you know, and women are more receptive. And we're used to being like, okay, come to mama. You know, and so I always just wonder of, you know, like our natural energies or the traits of how we operate, you know, because men are out there just, you know, then they know, like, nobody's coming to save them. They have to go be that masculine energy, which we love. And, you know, and so for women to kind of get into this space, it is nice to have like that invitation. I just started hosting, and you should totally come, of course, anytime. We're doing at the Denver space, like, a monthly women's meetup, on the And the ladies love it because they're just like, oh, I can just chill.
And I'm not the only 1 in the room or whatever, and we can all just talk about stuff and it's not over my head and I don't feel uncomfortable asking questions. And so there's no and people are always like, Oh, there's not enough women in Bitcoin. I'm like, There's a ton of women in Bitcoin, but we don't need to go put a billboard out there and say that we're doing this. But the reality is, it's like we have a different way of engaging with Bitcoin, you know? And we think about like why Bitcoin is a great tool for peace, why Bitcoin is a tool for people to get out of abusive relationships, whether it's with a violent partner or a violent government, you know? And so women are interested in that kind of stuff. And so it's nice to have more, more colors of the rainbow in the conversation, I think. But again, like you still, like, what you're doing is very, very unique and rare.
Do you wanna talk about but I I wanna see, like, do you wanna what do you wanna talk about first? You wanna talk about, Bitcoin plus plus events? Do you wanna talk about Base fifty eight? You wanna talk about the workshop? Which 1?
[00:24:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's talk about base fifty eight in the workshop, but, I feel a little guilty because I have really great grand plans for base fifty eight, and we did an amazing work, I feel like, a few years ago. But within the last year, I've, like, it's been a little bit on the back burner while I've been working on event stuff. Can you tell people what like, so what is Base fifty eight? Yeah. So Base fifty eight is an engineering school I started, that's really focused on teaching people about how the Bitcoin protocol works for engineering students. The idea being that, you know, learning about Bitcoin and how it's engineered and how it's putting together and telling you, like, the engineering story behind Bitcoin, 1 makes you there's a couple of reasons for this. 1, understanding how it works makes you a much more powerful individual in the modern world because all of a sudden, you understand the knobs and levers that exist in Bitcoin that are up for you to change, places that you can innovate and add on to.
You understand why Bitcoin is the way it is. That gives you, you know, a new language to, like, be like, okay. Here's why we should change it to this way. Or, you know, when you're working on your own problems, you have this, like, really, I think, pretty solid engineering, understanding of another system that maybe you can apply to other things that you're working on. So, you know, studying good engineering only is helpful for other engineering that you wanna do. The other thing I think about understanding Bitcoin, which is, I think, so important for keeping Bitcoin a decentralized and a consensus based system, is that in order to talk about proposals to change Bitcoin, you need to understand what people are proposing.
And I would bet right now that of the proposals that people are making about how we wanna change or update Bitcoin, maybe 5 or less of the people that are even technical Bitcoiners really understand what is being proposed and presented. Right? And you can't have consensus, like, true consensus, without understanding. And so that's why it's like, no. I need to, like, start working on this education piece because Bitcoin needs to stay a consensus based system. People need to understand what they're agreeing to. You know, it's like in congress. You get these bills that are super long. No one knows what they're agreeing to, what's in it, etcetera. I don't know what that is. Hang on. I think someone's calling me in.
Sorry. Okay. Right. Yeah. So the whole idea is that having better education resources available that are really, like, well done and give people, like, that confidence that they understand it and the ability to, like, go out and, think, you know, think deeply about what's what changes are happening or what they wanna see Bitcoin move to and why that would be a good idea. That was kinda the reason for starting this goal and writing this stuff down. It was also, like you know, I was working on a project in Lightning where I really needed to understand how Bitcoin transactions work. And none of the resources out there were at the level that I needed them to be at. And it was like, okay. I'm just gonna write what I wish existed when I was working on this, and to make it into a, really make it into a what do you call it?
Just a good, like, record of how Bitcoin works. I don't know.
[00:28:25] Unknown:
And and and do you have do you feel like, because, obviously, I was an entrepreneur. You know? Like, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm working on a, a personal growth project. And I want to like build something on Noster where you can zap people and everything's, you know, over there, and we've got courses, etcetera. And so, so Austin from Plebdevs is doing some stuff. So I was like, Oh, can I just white label what you're doing and kind of put my content in and just beta it? And so I think as entrepreneurs too, who are, you know, we're still doing the same stuff that we're doing over in like legacy or the fiat system.
It's like how much is enough to know? Because we can obviously go down all these rabbit holes of like, Oh, well, how does this work? And how does this transaction go? And what's the thing? You know, what do you think is like a good bare minimum for people to understand? Like, this is what's out there for you to, you know, integrate into your, you know, whether you're a consultant or a coach or an educator or whatever. Like, what's the bare minimum that you think? Or, you have ecommerce. You know? You're trying to sell stuff. Right? Like, what's the bare minimum for folks to, understand Bitcoin and and, you know, how Lightning's laws could work?
[00:29:42] Unknown:
Yeah. This is a really good question I don't have a good answer to. I'm not I'm not really sure. But I would say that this kinda starts getting into, like, why I made the workshop, if that makes sense. Mhmm. So the workshop is this hands on, in person, two hour game or, like, I don't know, classroom activity that really lets you understand whenever you're making an on chain Bitcoin transaction what's happening. 1 of the nice things about knowing what's happening is that I think it gives you power and confidence when you're using the system to receive payments as someone who's vendor or using the system to, like, hold it part of your corporation's wealth as, like, a corporate treasury.
You really have, like, a better understanding of where your Bitcoin sit in the ecosystem, like, in the system. And makes also like, again, like, Bitcoin is not like anything else that exists. It's not like you can you know, every I mean, the thing what's great about it is everyone comes in at the same power level, so to speak. But, it means that there's a lot of new stuff to learn. And so what I really like about this workshop that we put together, we call it the bit it used to be called the LARP, so maybe you've heard of the base fifty eight LARP before. We renamed it at the beginning of this year because I wanted it to be
[00:31:03] Unknown:
a little more accessible when you hear the name. Like, oh, that's something that I wanna do or try out. Do you have the the box with you? Like, are you I don't know where you're at. No. They're all at the office, and I'm in the office. Okay. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Can you tell people like what, like, because when I got to go visit you in Dec. 0, I think it was, and you took some time to show me what was up. I was like, Oh my God, this is so cool. Like, I can touch a Bitcoin transaction. Like, how does this work with the string and everything? Like, you really Yeah. You touched on a different learning style and a different personality because there's obviously, you know, folks who can look at, you know, charts and graphs and see stuff or they can read a giant white paper document, whatever. And okay, great, they got it. But then there's those of us who are like, I'm a visual learner or I'm a tactile learner, you know, and I need to feel it. And so how did you come to this? Like, because it's really remarkable what you created. And I just, I want to, because I don't think you're selling it enough.
Not that you're selling it, but like, it's a really amazing, kit that you anybody here, whoever's listening on, we've got, I guess, three forty one people watching right now, 45. Yay. I love you guys. Like if you're doing a Bitcoin meetup, if you're doing an after school program, if you just want this for yourself, like you can order this kit and, and you can learn like how Bitcoin transactions are made, you know, and and play a game and do it. And how they get mined and how they get in the block and where they, like, where they go and
[00:32:36] Unknown:
how do blocks get made. If I make a Bitcoin transaction, how does it get into a block? These are all questions that everyone should know. This should not be secret alpha or, like, private information. Like, every school kid should know how Bitcoin works because it is going to be the backbone of our financial system. Yeah. And it's going to be the system, hopefully, that we use to transact peer to peer in the future. Right? Like, anyway so, yeah, you kinda asked where the game came from. A friend of mine got me into this personality types thing over COVID called Myers Briggs. Yep.
Maybe some of your listeners are familiar with. I took my first Myers Briggs test in college. And there's a certain like, the way that Myers Briggs works is it kinda divides you up based on are you introvert or extrovert? How do you learn how do you experience the world? Do you experience it through, like, frameworks and, like, white papers, or do you experience it through senses? Like, this is a beautiful flower. This is a new like, a delicious meal. You know? How do you make decisions? Do you use your feelings to make decisions, or do you use thinking to make decisions? And then the last 1 is do you spend more time making decisions, or do you spend more time experiencing the world? It's kinda like the 4 letters.
Yep. So most Bitcoiners tend to be, something that you call intuitives, which are they tend to really understand more abstract thinking patterns. Like so understanding Bitcoin is something that you really need to be more of an intuitive to really get. But if we want Bitcoin to be accessible to the majority of the population, which is not that, and even kids. Right? You really need to make a system that makes it sensory, that brings it into something that you can touch. There's a really famous math program, which I think is like the signaporian math system, which is famous for how well students that do this program come out for, like, learning math. What is the first year, though?
I think it's a Singapore, like, math Singapore? Singapore. Okay. Yeah. Like, the Singapore, like, national math, like, curriculum. Okay. It's pretty famous, I think, for like, but the very first year, it's all about touching things. Like, before you get in because math is, like, like this. Right? It's a very like, you can touch objects and see them put them together as addition and take them apart as subtraction. But as you go up the curve on math, it gets very abstract, and it's very, like, in your head, numbers, charts, figures, whatever. Right? So this is like, okay. Bitcoin is kind of at that other end of the mass Birkner curve of, like, this up in your head number chart figure. Like, how does proof of work work? I don't know. There's machines, and they're, like,
[00:35:24] Unknown:
doing stuff. Going on in the black box over there that I don't get. Yeah. And I'm I don't know. Right? Yeah.
[00:35:31] Unknown:
So the idea was that we would try and bring it all the way down to your hands. So the whole make all of Bitcoin, the entire on chain. So it's the most accurate to exactly how Bitcoin works, hands on activity that you can do. Generally, run it with, like, 10 to 20, but you can have up to, like, 40 or 50 people doing it at the same time. And it's really fun because you learn about what is decentralized computing. What does it mean for to be on a decentralized network? What does it mean to have proof of work? What does it mean to verify a block? What does it mean to be looking for, like, an aunts or whatever? Yeah. So it's like a very, like, cool hands on paper and pencil.
You have little baskets for putting your transactions in. So if you've ever been to mempool.space, we learn about what the mempool is. Independent of that, we learn about what a coinbase is. It's not an exchange. They just stole the name from Bitcoin. We learn about all the parts of what makes Bitcoin work. Where did a new Bitcoin come from? How do miners make money? Like, that kind of thing. But it's all on pen pen and paper. It's you have to be able to do some math, and it is a bunch of steps, like, kind of accounting stuff because at the end of the day, Bitcoin really is an accounting system.
[00:36:52] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a ledger. And and and but people it's it's such a they think it's so much more scary than it is, and it's I mean and I get intimidated. I know when you showed me that, the way that it was working, I was like, okay. Do it again. I don't I don't get it. Like, you know? And and I think that's just that's normal because like you said earlier, it's like there's nothing like this. Our brains don't have like a comparison thing to go, oh, well, this is similar. There's nothing that's been created on Earth like this ever. And so at least to the scale, obviously. And and so I think it's, you know, it's like being patient, you know. Like, I was talking with somebody this morning who, he's a big music festival producer. We were talking about, like, trying to get, like, some Zapathon type stuff during some of his things so that some of his artists can get some splits and they can learn about Bitcoin. And and he's, like, a really, really intelligent, creative man. And he's just, like, I'm kind of scared of Bitcoin. Like it, I don't know what to do. I just get a little Bitcoin and it goes over here and I'm like, and I'm like, yeah, dude, it doesn't have to be scary. Like it's totally fun and it's cool and creatives kind of interpret it in a certain way you know, because they have a use case in addition to, you know, store value. It's like, woah. You can do lightning splits or whatever and get oh my gosh. Like, everybody, my sound guy, my guitar player, my drummer, we all just got some zaps. And and look, we get to all go out and buy some beer or whatever, you know? Like so I think it's just like, you know, whoever we're speaking with, it's like a it's a fun exercise in empathy and compassion and trying to understand, like, where they're coming from and, like, the fact that you created this beautiful this workshop, this game, you know, because that creates a lot of empathy for people who wanna touch things, you know, and not just look at the screen. So I'm just like,
[00:38:45] Unknown:
you are Right. Yeah. I do like, so I have a lot of devs. So the really fun thing about the game is it's so accurate to the protocol that, like, newbies have a lot of fun because they get to learn how it works and it like, it's doable. Like, you could touch the things. It's like, just follow the things. You will you will be successful. But, like, very experienced Bitcoin core devs have a lot of fun because they're like, oh my god. This is the protocol that I work on. Like, this is fun. I'm gonna try and break the game now because I know how the things work. But, yeah, I think it's rare to come up with a level of game that just, like, crosses that many levels of experience, and anyone who comes to it has a good time.
I think it's funny that you mentioned the fear thing because I've definitely it's 1 of my favorite things about teaching because, like, you know, my Bitcoin transactions class is is challenging, but it's also doable if you can do it. It's hard, but, like, you know, but it's so much fun to watch people come over their fear. And, like, the the other side of it is, like, so much, like, joy and empowerment and, like, oh, that's what's going on. I'm like, oh, I'm on the other side of this, like, thing that I really was curious about but didn't know how to get to the right, you know, just how to get my my questions answered. I didn't even know what questions to ask.
Yeah. So, like, we did a I did a a workshop in New York a few years ago for some of the people that now were I think it was the generation Bitcoin crew. I don't know if they're still doing it, but this is a few years ago. And they brought their families, like their aunts and uncles and moms and dads. And there may be, like, fifteen, twenty of us in, like, a small room in New York. And you just see, like, the kind of fear on these people's faces of, like, like, they know Bitcoin is complicated. They know they don't understand Bitcoin. Right? Like, it's they they know they don't know it, and that's kinda all they know. And that's enough to be scary.
And so, like, then it's so much fun to like, there's, like, there's a part where you stamp a, a a card with, like, an accepted thing before you so when you have a transaction, you have to validate the transaction before you put it in your mempool. And when you finish validating it, you stamp it with an approved, if that makes sense. There's, like, a stamping thing. And it was so much fun to watch, like you know, these people who come in scared, they start going through it. Their eyes light up when they hit that approve thing because it's just such a nice thing to be able to, like, stamp, like, a physical stamp. Like, oh, I got it. And then later in the game, someone had a transaction, and they were trying to put it in a basket, which stands for the mempool, but they hadn't verified it yet. And this person that had so much fun, like, verifying it was like, no. No. No. No. No. You can't. I gotta, like, stamp it first. It must be stamps. Like, you didn't go through the rules. Like, I am now and, like, you know, it's just fun to watch people, like, you know, not assume responsibility, but, like, they do like, they learn the system, and they get excited about it. And then it's like they're like, no. You gotta, like, follow the rules. Like, there are rules about how this works. Like, I don't know. It's just it's really it is really fun. You know, they go from being scared to, like, all of a sudden, like, master and commander of, like, this particular part of the world.
[00:41:59] Unknown:
Well, in in the fact that you're pretty Yeah. And it's like because you're you're you're I don't I don't I don't I'm gonna make up a word. You're you're human humanifying the experience because you're, you know, you're allowing the people to be like the machines. And, like, this is your role if you're do you know? And so so that is a really cool thing because we do we get we feel disconnected and uncertain and, like, I don't you know? And so the fact that you brought it down to this level where the individuals get to participate and be part of the the experience that way.
It it's just it's it's unique. It like I said, you're you're a double unicorn. You're not just a unicorn. You're a double unicorn. And that's I just love that about you. And so okay. So let's tell people, like, what's going on for you in the events because I wanna honor your time. I know, you you know, you said you hadn't been feeling so great. So I wanna I wanna I wanna honor you. What's going on? I've got we've got we've got BTC plus plus events coming up in Brazil.
[00:42:59] Unknown:
Yeah. So not just, like, you know, I this Bitcoin, this cool stuff is amazing, and I've got you know, we've got a lot of cool stuff happening there. Hopefully, more this year depending on how I'm able to, like, spread my time out. But I also run this event series called Bitcoin plus plus, which is an international Bitcoin conference series for technical and open source contributors. We're the most international, I think, Bitcoin conference that exists. We did 3 events in 3 different countries last year. We were in Austin, we were in Buenos Aires, and we were in Berlin. This year, I got a little ambitious, and we're gonna try and do 6 events in 6 different countries.
[00:43:40] Unknown:
I might be dead at the end of the year. They're not you're gonna no. No. No. Dude, you're gonna have all of us. We're we will be the wind beneath your wings. Okay? We will help you.
[00:43:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Either either Bitcoin plus plus deals or, Bitcoin plus plus dies. We will find out. No. It's a sink or swim year, I think. But no. But it's really great. I mean, the only reason I'm doing this more of this many events is because it made sense, which sounds crazy, but it was like there it feels like there's community, and there's people in all these places that will make it such that I can be successful at running an event there. And, yeah. So we're gonna we're doing it. We're, yeah, we're going to Brazil next month. This is our so Bitcoin plus plus, traditionally, every event has a theme. The very first one that we did, I invited all of the Bitcoin educators that I knew.
Most of them actually happen to live in Austin, which is fun. And then we've covered privacy with on chain privacy, which is kinda like coin joins, that kinda stuff. We did layer twos before layer twos were cool. We did eCash last year. But yeah. So in Brazil, we're gonna be working on hacking attackathon. It's the longest event we've ever done. It's gonna be four days. We're gonna two days of workshops and lectures and then two days of hacking and building. I'm really excited. I think 1 of the things about the Bitcoin plus plus brand, which is 1 of my favorite things about it, is that I feel like we do as best a job we can at getting both local Bitcoiners from the local community who are building and working in Bitcoin to come and show what they're working on, as well as getting Bitcoiners from all over the globe to come and share what they're working on with that local community, if that makes sense. So I'm super excited about the Bitcoin plus plus in, Fortinopolis because we're getting people from all kinds of great projects are gonna come.
Supertestnet's gonna come down. We've got this guy named Stu from CBD who's been working on some really fun stuff with covenants he's gonna show off. We've got Nicholas Goldin who's working on an independent implementation of the lightning protocol. He's a Brazilian who gets to come show off his work. Yeah. I'm just yeah. I'm I'm very, very excited about doing it in Brazil. It's gonna be our first Brazil event. Vincium, which is the largest Bitcoin nonprofit in Brazil, is a huge sponsor of the event. They're, they're gonna be sending they're doing their first ever residency program, and they're going to be sending, pretty much, like, all of the students in the Residie to it. So it'll be great. They're gonna meet all these great people from all over the world who are coming to Brazil, which is it's very it's kinda difficult to convince people to come to Brazil, let me tell you, because it's a long flight for them.
I learned that devs don't like long flights, which is fine. I, like you know, like like, I travel a lot, and I'm kind of at the point where, like, I will hop on a plane and, like, be like, oh, twelve hour flight. Okay. Guess we're gonna be in the seat for a while. Like, I just don't even think about, like, how long is it I need to go to this place. I'm just gonna go. Right? But I found that most people aren't like that. They, like, actually don't like. They like they're like, no. I don't wanna sit on twelve for a plane for twelve hours. Not just 1, but, like, two eight hour flights. Anyways, so, but we got people coming, which I'm very excited about. So it should be it should be good.
Yeah. We got people coming over from Argentina. I'm blanking out on who else is. There's lots of I think 1 of my friends, Jeff, who's working on this project called white noise for Nasr stuff has been really fun. I'm excited about pairing with him. My hackathon project is going to be helping Jeff figure out how to send his packets through the Lightning Network. No. Yeah. So, yeah, I've got a hack I'm gonna I'm I'm hoping that I will be, have time so I can contribute to the hackathon stuff too and work on a project with people. So it should be fun. It's a beautiful city in Brazil. It's got gorgeous beaches. We're gonna be there in the summer, which is the nicest time to visit.
Hoping to be able to connect us really closely to the Bitcoin community there and as well as, like, the hacking community. Florianopolis just got named the number 1 city for startups in Brazil. So it's a huge Cool. Yeah. It's like a great it's like the it's the city, I think, to really be doing this kind of frontier of Bitcoin exploration.
[00:48:03] Unknown:
And so if people wanna participate, like, I mean, what because I'm not a developer and I'm not, you know, I'm not anybody who understands code. I'm a business person and I'm obviously a weirdo creative person. Like, you know, like, what would anybody who is in, you know, in my field, like, be like, would it benefit them to go to any of these kind of events, or is it more, like, developer events?
[00:48:28] Unknown:
I think our our main audience is really developers and people in the developer ecosystem. I'm like, yeah. I was like, if you're a VC and you wanna come meet people and you're looking for projects to invest in or if you are someone who want isn't technical yet but wants to be more technical, I think these are, like, definitely good projects and opportunities. But if you're just on the business side, it's probably gonna be a lot of over your head stuff. And, you know, if the devs come because it's their other dev friends that they get to hang out and talk with and
[00:49:03] Unknown:
Totally. How how do you I just like, you just brought up VCs, which I think is an important point. Like, for people who are, investors, you know, who wanna help move projects forward, obviously, you guys are gonna have, like, a plethora of these cool projects that people are working on. Like, how do folks get funding, you know, to go from, you know, oh, this is a great concept to, okay, let's go implement this thing and scale it and and make it a real bit, a viable business.
[00:49:32] Unknown:
I think that's where business people like yourself don't really come in. But, yeah, I haven't seen I have to be honest. Like, that part of the ecosystem isn't something that I've spent a lot of time thinking about or trying to get involved in. It's on my road map for this year to figure out a way that we can better serve the venture capital needs in Bitcoin. 1 of those things is, like, maybe it's a newsletter about where we're reporting on interesting things in Bitcoin and just kind of putting all the cool frontier stuff that we're showcasing at our conferences in the inbox of venture capitalists, etcetera. So it's, like, you know, how can we, as Bitcoin plus plus, better serve these projects?
Maybe it's making them more visible. I'd really love to get more VCs involved in sponsoring the event and funding the hackathon. So if you're a venture capitalist firm and wants to we're working on, like, maybe figuring out, like, you know or it's definitely on my to do list to figure out how Bitcoin plus plus can, like, serve VCs as, like, part of the ecosystem and our stakeholders. So 1 part of that would be, you know, if you're a VC, and I'd love to talk to you about how Bitcoin plus plus can be a better like, more useful to what you're trying to do in Bitcoin.
[00:50:58] Unknown:
And and, well, I think about, like okay. So we've got, like, Mike Moz, who's got Thunder Thunder and Lightning Ventures. Right? We've got, obviously, Jeff and those guys who are doing ego death. We've got, Wolf Accelerator. And so to me, you guys, it seems like chocolate and peanut butter. Like they should be somehow at the end of your hackathons there, whether it's virtually or in person, you know, and then having sort of a shark tank kind of thing, you know, have a bit tank and then have all of the folks you know what I mean? And then it's just like, hey, check it out. And then I don't know. I just feel like that's like a cool I always say chocolate and peanut butter when cool things mix, because of that old, you know, Reese's peanut butter cup thing. But I just wonder, like, that could be something that could because it's great that you're bringing all these folks together to do the hackathons and get their pro projects going, but then it's like, well, y'all need some money. Like, you need some money to help, like, put the the the fertilizer on the the seed so it can grow. So maybe that could be,
[00:51:59] Unknown:
I don't know. Or even getting OpenStats more involved in Totally. Yeah. Of course. You know? And so It's like the hackathon projects that people do aren't typically, like, a pitch competition. It's like, here's a thing that I've written a new protocol, or here's the way I've contributed to an existing open source project. So I think our hackathons tend to be a lot more engineering focused than product focused. Okay. Got it.
[00:52:24] Unknown:
Yeah. But, no, it's gonna be a product focused 1, and then that could help people with their their dreams. Like and I I don't know. I'm just I'm a nerd, and I'm always trying to No. So I'm hoping we'll have an announcement about that soon,
[00:52:36] Unknown:
doing a little more product with this hackathon for Bitcoin plus plus. But, traditionally, the ones that are events tend to be pretty, Yeah. I guess I have to go back. But, yeah, they tend to be pretty, like, protocol y focused.
[00:52:53] Unknown:
Is that true? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Which is super important because that's one one of the, 1 of the pieces of the puzzle. Right? 1 of the pieces of the temple or the masterpiece. Right? And so that's, like, the most important part. If that stuff doesn't work, your products and services aren't gonna work. Noted. So so I think that's super cool. So for anybody who's listening, if you can't see the screen, you guys can go to btc+plus,allspelledout.dev, and check out what's going on for, what's coming up in Brazil. And you've got something in Austin. I know you've got other events going on. Do you I'm working on the website. Yeah. Yeah. So check check the website out, you guys, and go, go if you guys are developers or if you wanna like, what would you say to somebody who's listening right now, who might be, like, a developer, but maybe not a Bitcoin developer or a Lightning developer or an Oster? Like, what would you say to them about coming to some of your events?
[00:53:50] Unknown:
You should do it. You should come. Come make friends. Come ask questions in person. Figure out I mean, I think that the coolest thing about coming to Bitcoin plus plus event is you get to see the level of engineering and, like, you know, that there are badasses working in the space that wanna answer your questions and help you figure out what they're doing. I don't know. I think it's I think it's good to go to things that you don't understand a % of that. Like, if you understand 10% of it, that's, like, completely a win. I mean, I remember going to my first bit devs when I started. Like, I got into Bitcoin and didn't really know anything, and I would go to these events and just be like, I don't know what these people are talking about.
But it changes. Right? Like, over time, you just keep showing up and you keep hearing things, and you ask questions, and you, like, figure out what they're talking about eventually. I think that's just part of the learning process. And I I like to think of Bitcoin plus plus event. Or, like, check out our like, we have a YouTube where we've been posting all of our talks. You should definitely, if you're able to, check that out. We do a couple panels so you can see what the panels are like, as well as more technical talks. Those are all I think that's also a great resource for figuring out who's working on what in the space.
[00:55:04] Unknown:
Cool. Okay. Awesome. So if you're listening, we've got four eighteen people right now listening, apparently. Like, if you're new developers or old developers, like, please make sure you guys go support, Nifty Nye and her projects and then get involved. And that's what the coolest part, right? Like, you don't need the invitation, like you said earlier. Just you're you're invited. The fact that it's happening means you're invited. Yeah. I think it's super cool. And then so for everybody, like, do you I noticed you're on Nostril, I think, a little bit more than on on x, but either 1. Like, people can find you on x.com, at niftynight, or on,
[00:55:43] Unknown:
on Nostr. You should follow both because they get, you know, independent content. No. I'm kidding.
[00:55:50] Unknown:
Right on.
[00:55:51] Unknown:
Okay. I don't know. Yeah.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
Okay. So any last thoughts or words for for our wonderful listeners and, you know, people who are getting involved in Bitcoin? How can people get like, if they wanna do, like, the Bitcoin at workshop, like, how can they get a hold of 1 of those boxes? This is, like, great. Send me an email at [email protected].
[00:56:11] Unknown:
I'm working on getting the website out. I've been saying this for over a year, but it's only gonna happen this time. Okay. Hold on. So it's [email protected]. Send me an email. We can send you 1. We have them in stock. I'm just really bad about it. We're working on the website. I don't know why it's taking I do know why it's taking so long, but busy with other stuff. But, yeah. I I would love like, 1 of my goals for this year would be amazing to get more workshops happening all around the globe, and in classrooms in America. I want every school student in America doing a the Quina workshop before they graduate. It would be like you know, if I had 1, like, wish for the workshop project, it would be that it is something that every American gets to experience before they turn 20, 20 1. I don't know.
[00:57:05] Unknown:
That is an awesome dream. Well, what about, like do you know, I mean, you have Daniel Prince, and he does all the stuff with homeschooling. And do you know, Scott and Tali? They have free market kids. They do a lot of stuff with homeschooling also. And then I don't know what he's doing, if he's still doing a lot of stuff, but there was a organization called B STEM, and they were doing like after school programs, kind of like STEM, STEAM education. So those 3 organization, obviously, Daniel, whatever, he's like all into the homeschooling world. Those could at least like start getting those folks getting, the Bitcoin workshop into their hands, so that they can do these projects with these kids, you know, in and out of school. I think that's like, it's super important and it's needed, you know, and they're always people are always looking for those kinds of projects, you know, for their curriculum and whatnot. And so this is obviously, right in alignment with all of these folks. So those could be some opportunities, you know, to get them in at least some hands.
[00:58:10] Unknown:
Yeah, that's a great idea. Cool.
[00:58:13] Unknown:
All right, sister, I am gonna wish you a sweet nap. I know you thank you for taking this time to to do this interview, and I know you're not feeling a a %. A lot of people have been this has been a a a Jan. 0 with people getting the flu or the cold or whatever, so I hope you get better soon. I've been yeah. Been joking with my friends. I caught bird flu now. But this is the most sick I think I've been since I got COVID in January 2021. I guess. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's it's, it's it's it's legit. So go go, I don't know, drink some bone broth, do whatever you do and feel better. And then I hope you guys have the best time seriously down in Brazil. That's gonna be such a great trip.
It's gonna be great. Yeah. Super cool. And thank you again so much. And thanks for all the work you're doing. And and I know, like, 98% of it is a giant labor of love. It's very difficult to do this work. You know, you're not making a trillion dollars being, a developer and doing all this stuff and as an educator. So I really, really honor you and appreciate the work that you're doing out there, and, it it's it's very well received and needed.
[00:59:22] Unknown:
Thanks, Valerie. Yeah. And, hopefully, we'll get to scale this year and see the community grow and the number of people that get impacted by it. And, you know, adoption of Bitcoin is on a monetary sense is 1 thing, but understanding of Bitcoin, I think, is the real, like, next level up. You know?
[00:59:41] Unknown:
It is. And it's like that that like you said, like, that conceptualization of, like, oh, this is how it works. And then you just have a little bit more confidence of, like, yeah, this is actually where I wanna direct my resources and energy versus this thing out here that I don't understand. And so I think the way that you're doing it is very, very useful to, to help people have that level of confidence. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah make sure you guys go follow, Nifty nine x and on Noster and go check out btc++.dev and, learn about Bitcoin. And you don't need an invitation. This is your invitation, so show up.
Yeah. I hope to see you all in Brazil. It's gonna be a really good time. Like, really good time. Yeah. For sure. Alright, hon. Thanks so much. Peace, love, and warm aloha to everybody. And thank you so much for taking your time. And I hope you feel so much better very soon.
[01:00:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Peace out. Take care. You too.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Nifty Nye's Journey into Bitcoin
Understanding Bitcoin and Its Unique System
The Importance of Peer-to-Peer Transactions
The Bitcoin Community and Independent Thinking
Women in Bitcoin and Tech
Base58 and Bitcoin Education
The Bitcoin Workshop Game
Bitcoin++ Events and Global Reach
Funding and Supporting Bitcoin Projects
