DJ Valerie B LOVE Show

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In this episode, we dive into a fascinating conversation with Scott Dedels, a spiritual seeker, Bitcoiner, and entrepreneur. Scott is the founder of Block Rewards and author of 'The Dao of Bitcoin' and 'Bitcoin for Financial Advisors.' We discuss his recent trip to Australia for Bitcoin Live, his love for Bitcoin conferences, and his unique journey from financial services to becoming a Bitcoin advocate. Scott shares his insights on the intersection of Bitcoin and Daoism, exploring how Bitcoin's principles align with Daoist philosophy, emphasizing the importance of being present and understanding the procedural nature of all things.

We also explore the challenges and opportunities of integrating Bitcoin into financial systems, particularly in the context of small businesses and regulatory barriers. Scott discusses the concept of earning Bitcoin and the potential for innovation in payroll and HR tools that operate on Bitcoin. The conversation touches on the broader implications of Bitcoin on time preference, financial autonomy, and the spiritual awakening that often accompanies a deeper understanding of Bitcoin. Scott's insights offer a unique perspective on how Bitcoin can transform not only financial systems but also personal and spiritual lives.

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https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/djvalerieblove/209

(00:00:32) Introduction to Scott Dedels

(00:01:21) Bitcoin Conferences and Australia

(00:02:44) Scott's Background and Bitcoin Journey

(00:05:22) Block Rewards and Bitcoin Payroll

(00:07:16) Regulatory Barriers and Bitcoin Adoption

(00:10:30) Challenges for Small Businesses with Bitcoin

(00:17:27) Spirituality and Bitcoin: The Dao Connection

(00:22:27) Bitcoin as a Spiritual Awakening

(00:27:36) Understanding Daoism and Its Principles

(00:36:18) The Objectivity of Math and Bitcoin

(00:42:59) Stress, Dopamine, and Decision Making

(00:51:30) Impermanence and Gratitude

(00:58:32) Burning Man and the Experience of Impermanence

(01:06:50) Conclusion and Where to Find Scott Dedels

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[00:00:32] Unknown:

Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Happy thankful Thursday. I have somebody here with me who is a spiritual seeker just like probably many of you who are listening to this podcast, also a Bitcoiner and entrepreneur. He's the founder of Block Rewards   and author of The Dow of Bitcoin, Bitcoin for Financial Advisors,  

[00:00:48] Unknown:

and the host of The Block Reward Podcast. Welcome, Scott Dittles. How's it going, my brother? It's going very well. Thank you again for so much for having me on. It's great to be here, Val. Totally. So  

[00:00:59] Unknown:

how are you? I think when we were kind of texting back and forth, you were coming back from Australia.  

[00:01:05] Unknown:

Yeah. I, I love Australia. I was down there for, speaking at Bitcoin Live, which is, kind of the the premier, Australian Bitcoin event. It was tons of fun.   I love Bitcoin conferences and,   to be able to combine that with a a reason to take a trip is is so much fun.   Lots of great Bitcoiners in Australia   and,   some really great   content. Like, I love going to see other what other people speak, you know, the stuff people talk about at events.   And I'm still a fan. I'm still learning. You know, it's,   it's all good.  

[00:01:39] Unknown:

And so had you been down to us? I've I've never been to Australia. That's on one of my, like, you know, checkbox bucket lists. Like, had you been there before?  

[00:01:47] Unknown:

One time. Yeah. My wife's Ozzy. So, we Nice. We so this is another great reason to, to wanna be down there, but I I have this huge affinity. I've I,   Australia is an amazing place. And,   one of those ones I think often,   English speaking people can put it down the list a little bit because it might not feel as exotic for Right. For how far you have to go to visit it. But,   yeah, it's it's got tons to offer. It's and it's, you know, beautiful landscapes and,   yeah, great great country. One of my favorites.  

[00:02:17] Unknown:

Well, I'm so glad you're that you're traveling and spreading the good message of Bitcoin everywhere. Let's talk about your book. Let's talk about block rewards. Like, let's let the audience know, like, your backstory. I saw you went to Hawaii Pacific. I was looking at some other stuff. I was like, yay. Aloha. I used to live on Maui. I know that's not Hawaii Pacific, but,   but, yeah, it's like we bring the aloha spirit everywhere we go. So let's talk about you know, let's let the audience know, like, who you are and how you got here from, you know, where you were.  

[00:02:45] Unknown:

Yeah. I was I I I lived for two years in, in Honolulu as a as a grad student and,   had so much fun.   You know, it's an incredible place. I'm Canadian, so it's not so simple. You don't just, permanently put down roots there. Yeah. And, but maybe, again, one day, it's like a long term aspiration of mine.   My background from there, I I landed up back in Canada after some traveling and and other, detours and got into financial services.   Spent fifteen years   working in, compensation and rewards, pension plan consulting,   health and dental benefits,   total rewards planning. And, then in 2020,   Canadian government went and did what they did. And, among other things, they just started printing a lot of money and,   forcing us all to stay home. So I sort of, my Bitcoin origin story, I turned off Netflix after about a week and just really started wondering about what all this money printing was gonna mean for   the fixed income component of a pension portfolio and, you know, how I was just gonna think about   preparing my clients at the time. I started reading economics textbooks   and, ordering books off Amazon. And, eventually,   Amazon recommended you price for tomorrow, Jeff Booth's book. So that that was the one Jeff Booth totally got in there. Worry. Hold on. There's Jeff right there.  



[00:04:04] Unknown:

Right there.  

[00:04:06] Unknown:

Yeah. Totally. I mean, it's,   yeah. So I you know, and and that book isn't even explicitly a Bitcoin book. So it was a perfect one. It's, I was, like, right place at the right time. Spent the rest of, like, the lockdown time voraciously,   you know, reading every Bitcoin book I could.   And, originally so I I had this very early idea   that,   employers might wanna consider some kind of a an insurance product for pensions that was gonna be Bitcoin backed. And that was, like, the very early proto concept of block rewards.   And then, as you know, like, there's just no floor on the the Bitcoin rabbit hole. The deeper I went, the more I just become convinced. Like, I personally believe   we are moving quickly towards a world where people will just not wanna work for fiat money. And,   so to me, earning Bitcoin and the tools that are needed to make that, socialized and normal and accessible,   there's big opportunity for competition and innovation in that sort of niche of the of the Bitcoin world and promoting circular economy. The most important thing I think is, like,   if we really want people thinking about Bitcoin as money and spending it, then, you you know, you're more likely to spend something you've earned rather than something you bought because you think it's gonna appreciate in in price. So I really think the,   yeah, it it's something I'm very passionate about. Block rewards is,   is a company that is just solely dedicated to, you know, sort of payroll and HRS tools that run on Bitcoin only   and are engineered in Bitcoin ways. And, and and we're here to help   companies as they come online getting Orange Peel themselves, helping their staff do the same.  



[00:05:41] Unknown:

Well and so okay. So you probably obviously and so congratulations. So, yay, we we've made it. Yay. We're on the other side   for now, anyways. But we're still, like, all these different types of builders. You know? Like, you know who Dombey is, right, obviously, proof of workforce. Like, it seems like you guys are similar in the way that you're approaching,   companies whether, you know, whether it's with their pension plans or rewards, whatever. Like, how is that different in Canada than it is here in The States?  

[00:06:09] Unknown:

Great question. Yeah. Dom and I connected very early on. I I love what he's doing. I think that there is room. So I would say what Dom's doing is more like the pension funds themselves are going to be investing in Bitcoin as a as a as a portfolio   asset.   We we really kind of, like, have moved away from that, and it it has much more to do with just figuring out innovative ways for people to understand   why it's so important just to earn Bitcoin.   And I think, like,   a good   way to way I think about it is, like, in places where the money already has failed or works poorly,   in Latin American countries, they they might prefer already to earn US dollars if they can.  

I feel like, you know, us Western world people, we should be thinking the same way. Like, if we have the opportunity, and, yeah, many people do, but   not not nearly where we need to get to. So if we had the e a simple opportunity to earn Bitcoin   and we were all given the choice, like, it already makes more sense today to be earning Bitcoin.   So, so, yeah, we're we're much more focused on on the pay Bitcoin rather than the,   plan for your retirement with Bitcoin.  

[00:07:16] Unknown:

Well and so let's talk let's unpack that a little bit because, obviously, we have a lot of   regulatory barriers. Right? Like, a lot of people who are like, you know, if you're a small business. Right? You're like, cool. I'm gonna accept some Bitcoin. Okay. Now if I go pay my bills in Bitcoin, now I have a capital gains issue. Mhmm. If I'm going out and, you know,   paying paying for my electric bill or my Internet or whatever you're doing as a small business owner. And so, you know, for me too, as a small business person, you know, I think it's super important to,   understand,   like, why   why and how to accept Bitcoin as a, you know,   a medium of exchange. But then, okay. Now I'm gonna go on a Bitcoin standard, whether I'm using fold, whether I'm using, you know, anything,   just my regular good old fashioned wallet to pay my bills as an entrepreneur.  

It creates a whole another set of reporting   issues. Mhmm. You know? And I think a lot of people get freaked out by that. Yeah. Can you help people understand, like, why that shouldn't be so scary?  

[00:08:19] Unknown:

I mean, I hope so. You know, I I I think it's like,   you know, if if you're paying a gain,   that's   because the the value of the money you're holding is has appreciated in dollar terms. Right? And it and if you're paying a loss, like, yeah, there's an extra layer of reporting that there's no way around right now, and I hope that that's gonna change. And I feel like,   you know, there are some really big political wheels in motion, and this is not something that's gonna happen in the next six months. But,   you know, there there are lots of sort of influential voices in at least in US politics, you know, talking about certain dollar thresholds or or   removing the, the tax on transactions.  

So Yeah. Yeah. For now, you know, I think that it's like   we go through all of this exercise. You spend all this time trying to earn this money, and then you you're still doing probably with the money that you have left to plan for the future. You're probably doing your own,   convoluted and complicated way to grow that money and plan for the future. It might be operating in Airbnb as a side hustle. It might be day trading your, your stock portfolio while you're trying to do your other stuff. So it's like, you know, if you're not going to, just store all your wealth in Bitcoin, you're gonna do something else. So it to me, it's kind of like   it it could be one or the other.  

And,   yeah. So so maybe that's the way to think about it is, like,   in my mind, if you if you just   Bitcoin is the simplest way to plan for the future without needing to   do all this extra stuff. So we are,   and and have all this extra risk.   So so you're sort of, like,   trying to understand how the the   the short term volatility of the price will make sense by maybe saving you more time,   be by virtue of it being actually a much simpler thing to do over time.  

[00:10:15] Unknown:

Well, unless, again, I'm gonna,   you know, again, I wanna speak to the small business owners out there who are listening. So whether you're a, you know, a musician, a coach, an activist, you know, if you're selling, you know, wire hangers to your local laundromat, whatever.   You know, like,   the the accounting issue that people come across, and this is what I get tons and tons of pushback when I try to entrepreneurs   onto using Bitcoin and,   accepting Bitcoin as payment versus just accepting fiat as payment and then buying Bitcoin   as just like, okay. Cool. We're gonna put 10% of our profits or whatever into our treasury.  

So   it creates this, you know, obviously, a few more layers of,   complexity.   It also creates more cost.   You know? Because if you are paying those capital gains to, you know,   start to okay. Cool. I'm gonna, you know, convert my Bitcoin into the fiat and pay this money for a bill or whatever for my inventory.   You know, you're creating these taxable events.   And so that if you're already operating on, you know, 8%   profit margin,   that completely eats into your profit margin. You know? So for for those folks who are in jurisdictions   where which is basically everyone except, I mean, not anymore El Salvador because now we can't use that as legal tender. Like, we're you're always facing this capital gain issue when you're using Bitcoin from an earning   point of view. You know what I mean? And so unless it's just, like, sitting there, and then you're like, cool. I'm just gonna pay my bills in the fiat that I got. It it is like I I get, like, a a tsunami wall of pushback of people, and they're just like, we don't wanna do that. We just wanna accept fiat, and then we'll put some some Bitcoin you know, we'll buy some Bitcoin over here with the profit or whatever.  



[00:12:02] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, they're abstract. The the answers are, they're not so straightforward. I mean, to me but you we're really sort of talking about the difference between timing the market and time in the market, which is, really really, like, the actually the most important thing. So while you might be,   annoyed about how much extra time you have to spend trying to jump in and jump out or just have a portion of your money in there.   You know, the the only way to really ascertain whether you've done well or not in the in the rearview mirror is,   you know, how were you allocated at the times when Bitcoin really,   you know, changed aggressively in price? And nobody knows when that when those moments   arrive. Yeah. And,   and and that's kind of the great equalizer of these things that, yeah, you might you might,   you might not always be winning, but the math does actually   say over time, you should be winning more than any other way.  



[00:12:58] Unknown:

Yeah. And and I love all, like I'm a visual learner, so I love to see all the little calculators with the, like, you know, the pie chart or the graph or whatever. It's like, if you would've, you know, bought a Starbucks coffee every day for two years versus if you would've spent $6 on Bitcoin, like Yeah. You'd be a billionaire, you know, or whatever. Not that you're a billionaire. You know what I mean?   We need those kind of mechanisms, I think, for all of us with our different learning styles to sort of, you know, show and and even just individually, it's just like,   really? Like, that's what would have happened if I did this instead of that? You know? And because we're not our brains are not,   wired to think that far ahead and with those granular of of,   events. You know? But, like, when we can do that with these, you know, things called graphs and charts and whatever,   people are like, oh my gosh. You know? And so it does help to have these, you know, learning tools and things to to kinda play with for folks. So,   I love it. Okay. Hold on. Scott, do you think here, I'm gonna give this question from Heather.  

Do you think it's wiser to save in Bitcoin with a temporary tab you're putting into RSPs?  

[00:14:12] Unknown:

Yeah. I'd love to take a stab at that one. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go, Heather.   So for American listeners who don't know, an an RSP is sort of the Canadian version of a four zero one k.   And, contributions to an RSP, you get a you get a certain amount every year you can do, and it's and it's partly based on,   your income.   And so the money that you put in, you get a you get a, an income tax refund for the income that you the income tax that you paid on the money that you contribute to that thing. There are a few problems with RSPs,   that have nothing to do with Bitcoin, and one of them is,   when you take that money out in the future. And I think that's probably the same for four zero one k's, but I'm not I'm not a % sure.  

If during the thirty years you've been contributing this thing, the,   the income tax rate goes up over time, and this has been true. So, like, you know, income tax started at 2% or whatever, and then this is when and now we're we're here. I mean, in Canada, it's like, you know, some people are paying over 50%.   I mean, it could keep going up. Right? And so,   when this is also a little bit of a of a fugazi of,   any of these,   institutional products that get you to lock your money up in the system,   and you don't actually know what the, what the future penalty will be.   And so, you know, in this case, it you know, I know you you can custody,   cold stored Bitcoin in a four zero one k in The US. In Canada, you cannot do that with an RSP. So it's just an ETF. If you wanted to invest in Bitcoin in an RSP in Canada, it's just an ETF. So then you also don't get any of the benefits of having real Bitcoin. Yeah. So yeah. So to me, I I I actually think it's it's like a no brainer decision. I I don't want,   the tax break isn't worth it for me   to give up all of the benefits of actually having the Bitcoin,   when I don't even actually know. There there is all kinds of math around,   how difficult it is to to outperform. They're they're actually just tools, I think, by and large, to protect people from themselves and help them into a forced savings where the money is just is totally locked away.  

So, you know, if if you can if you can huddle on your own and you and you don't need to somebody to,   to protect you from yourself, then a %. I think you're better off just buying Bitcoin.  

[00:16:29] Unknown:

Yeah. I know. It's always, like, buy Bitcoin, buy Bitcoin, buy Bitcoin. Like, we have,   HSAs, which are health savings accounts here, and you can get, you know, I think it's, like, $4,100   a year that you can throw into your health savings account. It can grow over time, you know, not taxable.   But you can't buy Bitcoin directly the same way that you would, you know, use the, the Roth IRA or the sum of the four zero one k's where you can self custody, like, with Unchained and whatnot.   It it's like, okay. Well, it's $4 a year. I can go put that in, and I'll go get, you know, an ETF or MicroStrategy   or whatever and have, like, as much exposure to Bitcoin there as possible, but you're still getting that tiny tax break.  

And so I think it's,   you know, it's like whatever, not financial advice.   But, like,   if you're able to do some of those things and kind of play around, it's just yeah. You've kinda gotta experiment with your your flow. Okay. So so, Scott, let's talk about,   why we're really here.   Why are we here, Scott? Talk about how the heck did you get from you know? And I obviously listened to your book. I have so I have my my.   Like, this is at my,   my altar always. And, you know, I have all sorts of things in my altar. I have,   you know, I have several copies of my Ram Dass book. I have the Bible. I have cards. I have, like I love spiritual texts. I think they're just fascinating.  

And one of my favorite things to do is, like, thumb through them and just open it up and get, like, the message of the day. You know? And so that's what I think is so neat about,   the Tao Te Ching. That's what I think is so neat about your book. And,   how did you get from, you know, being in the financial world and, you know, going into the Dow and, you know, I think you were teach weren't you teaching English?   And, yeah. So let's talk let's get your backstory of, like, how did you get from all of this into writing a book about spirituality   and Bitcoin.  



[00:18:34] Unknown:

Yeah. I, I tell a little bit of this story in the book. I   I go way back with Taoism. I was,   first introduced to it with a book called The Tao of the Jump Shot, which, which was given to me when I was I was a university basketball player. And,   the, you know, the hardest part of the game for me at that age was was really the mental aspect of it. So it's,   you know, Daoism is, is,   among other things, a way to help people think about how to be in the present moment. And, I'm here now.  

[00:19:04] Unknown:

Totally.   Totally.  

[00:19:06] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, so for for sports,   there's, like, you know, there's lots of application.  

[00:19:11] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:19:13] Unknown:

So that was kinda like when I was 20.   You know, I'm and I mentioned there was a there was a detour there when I left Hawaii. I I spent a year teaching English in China as as you mentioned. And and then, and while I was there, I was, you know, had a really it's a time my life has, like, really profoundly impacted me.   I was I was deep in in Central China in the in Sichuan province.   So it's, like, kind of a an isolated experience.   Lots of fun.   And, so these are things that,   have been with me most of my life. And,   I   as I started learning about Bitcoin,   it was really something I was thinking about very early on because, once you once you get past the very first, you know,   layers of the of the Bitcoin rabbit hole, I think then,   the the the truly interesting stuff, the thought provoking stuff has more to do with,   you know, time preference and and and what does it mean? Like, you know, and and why are we here? And how are we how do we go out into the world and interact with each other? And and what are the forces that, impact those things and and change our own sort of, like, internal   understanding of all these things? And so so,   I was almost immediately thinking about this connection between,   DAOISM and Bitcoin, and I sort of make this joke that,   you know, they talk about precoiners.  

There's, every you know, some people who are you can tell they're they're not far off being a Bitcoiner.   A lot of Bitcoiners, I think, are actually pre Daoist because  

[00:20:41] Unknown:

a lot of them need Oh, I love you. Let's go. Let's go.  

[00:20:45] Unknown:

If you if you've really embodied and learned the things, you know, Bitcoin is   changes the way you think about everything. And it just so happens   that a lot of the things that change in you,   are are the same sorts of things that Taoists,   you know, appreciate and and spend time, like, sort of pondering and and being with. And and that that was kinda, like, the base of the idea.  

[00:21:08] Unknown:

Oh my god. I love it. Okay. Pre Taoist. I I'm, like, writing my little notes down here.   I think isn't it so cool? Like, you know, Tomer and I were talking you know, we talk about this all the time because he's he's, like, my my soul brother. But   some people come to Bitcoin   and then have a spiritual awakening. They're like, oh my gosh. You know? And then some people, like myself, have gone on the spiritual journey   and have always felt, like, this weirdness about money and something's weird in the money world. And then all of a sudden, Bitcoin is like that missing cheese   slice that goes into the the trivial pursuit game. You're like, oh my god. This was the missing piece for my spiritual journey. You know? And so   it doesn't matter which way you're coming at it. What matters is you're here now, and you're having something happen to you. You know? And and it's like awakening   whether it's high, low time preference understanding.  

Right? Whether it's like there's this unity consciousness of TikTok next block,   and Bitcoin doesn't care. You know? It doesn't matter. Like, hi. I've got three arms and purple hair,   and I believe and, you know, whatever. It's like, Bitcoin is just doing its thing. And to me, that's the DAO. It's just   it's just is.   And that's, like, so cool. So I just I love that you wrote this. And when I saw that you did this, I was like, oh, I gotta meet this guy.  

[00:22:33] Unknown:

Yeah. No. Totally. You know? And I think, like, to your to your point, like, a lot of people who are maybe further along or more interested in their in their spiritual journey Yeah. Do often, you know,   have different frustrations or, you know, energetic blocks around money and they don't understand why. And, you see a lot of spiritual related content around, you know, calling in financial abundance and and removing these you know, like, there's so there's there is a lot of,   you know, attention in the space around how to how to heal these sort of things.   And, like, you hit it on the head. So a big part of the book, and and I I do believe this. I think that   what what takes a long time to understand and probably it takes an understanding of Bitcoin to understand that,   you know, for for a lot of people, it's really not your fault. Like, the the problem is Exactly. We've all been, we've all been adopted,   into a money system without consent that   energetically   operates in a way that makes, that makes it,   difficult.  

And,   yeah.  

[00:23:34] Unknown:

Well and and I think, you know so Paul Rogers wrote a book. He's gonna be on the show soon, and I have to read the book. It's sitting on my my I have, like I'm so grateful to be a Bitcoiner, and I have all these wonderful books from all of, you know, the wonderful authors and thought leaders and people. I'm like, oh my gosh. Can't wait to get through this one so I can talk to this person about it. But,   you know, we think of, like, an extractive versus   a constructive system.   You know? And it's like the fiat system is extractive,   and it's by nature, it's extractive because of inflation, and that's theft. And it's interesting. I was just having a conversation with a young woman today in, Nigeria who perhaps might help me a little bit with some video editing and whatnot. And, you know, she's new to Bitcoin,   and and so I was just like, you know, so what do you what's your currency? You know? And, obviously, it's an IRA. And,   I was like, so do you have the same purchasing powers you did a month ago?  

Like, when you go to your grocery store, can you buy the same amount of groceries for the same amount of naira? And she just looked at me. She's like, no. And I was like, that's called theft. That's called inflation, and that's fiat, and that's what Bitcoin solves for. And she just was like, oh, okay. And so it's just like these little   when people start to understand   finite supply   versus infinite supply, you know, they're just like, oh,   that's why I am struggling, and I can hardly breathe. And my nose is right above the surface of survival.   You know? And   and, you know, obviously, Sab Bunny, you know, wrote the the,   beginning of your book. Like, Seb is I fucking love Seb. But it's like, we think about the mental health and spiritual health crisis of our families all over the world.  

You know? And it's like, it's not just because, oh, it's social media or drugs. It's like,   there's the fiat system that is polluting our families, and that's polluting the ability for   the family unit to feel safe. And so everybody has to go out and hustle and do probably more risky things so that they can get a higher payoff   just to have the same amount of, you know,   bread and granola bars and milk each week.   You know? And and it's like   people are taking more risks. They're doing things that are out of integrity   of who they are typically.  

Women are turning to porn and what is it? OnlyFans   and,   all the things that they can do to just be like, well, I can make a thousand bucks and show you my boobies, or I can go work for two weeks,   three weeks at some crappy job. You know? And so people are taking these, you know, low time preference   or high you know, they're they're they're taking these short term,   risks in order to try to just make sure they can get that granola bar  

[00:26:16] Unknown:

and yogurt for their kids. And so yeah. Yeah. And I I've been I've been, refining this idea. This is part of what I was talking about in my presentation at Bitcoin Live in Australia is,   so, you know, I mentioned this earlier concept about DAO's,   you know, part   a a a principle part of DAOISM is,   learning how to spend more time being in the present moment. And I actually think that even even kind of, like, you know, what what Seb's talking about hidden cost of money and how people change their their decisions or are forced to make different kinds of decisions   is sort of rooted in this this   more,   esoteric concept of how we experience time and the role that   the price and value of time   has in our ability to be in the present moment. So the more,   paralyzing anxiety that you have about the future Mhmm. And, and regret about the financial decisions that you made in the past,   these are things that really   those are truly the things that actually   then cause the behaviors.  

So,   it it is the the presence of those things,   which,   you can either be in the present moment, just enjoying right now, being with your family, whatever,   Or you can be worried about how you're gonna feed yourself and making all these short term decisions. You know, it is kind of like a binary one or the other choice. So,   yeah. I mean, I think at at the core of it,   when we think about inflation as being theft, like, what what are we really stealing? We're stealing a representation   of energy and time. So to earn that money,   money really is just   a representation of energy and time. So I I need to spend my time and my energy to get money. You do the same. We we use this thing so that we can trade our time and energy with each other. So it's not actually financial   value that's being stolen from us. It is our finite time and our energy.  

And so I think that when we consider the ramifications of a monetary system that prevents the theft of time and energy,   And I I do talk about this in the book. In the absence of the theft of your time,   that's when you really   can just think about what's happening right now.  

[00:28:28] Unknown:

And and let's   so two things I wanna talk about here. Let's go here so you can Hello.   Two things. I wanna I wanna kinda take a step back in just a moment. And for for those listeners who may not understand,   just, again, the basic concepts of what is Taoism.   You know? What's the Dao? And like we just said, you know, be here now. It's the Dao. It is what it is. Right? You see all those, like, little comparison religion things or, you know and Daoism is not a religion,   but it's a, you know, a philosophy, I would say. Would you say Taoism is more of a philosophy than a it's a spiritual way of looking at life, but it's not a religion?  

[00:29:08] Unknown:

Yeah. I think I think it's a spiritual tradition. Taoism doesn't have leaders per se. Right. So it's,   yeah, which is also another great,  

[00:29:17] Unknown:

parallel with Bitcoin. Exactly. Yeah. No leaders. It's just I mean, Lao Tzu, you know, obviously,   was, you know, somebody wrote the supposedly wrote the. We don't know if it was actually a real   person, or was it a bunch of people? Was it a pseudonym?   We don't know if Satoshi was a person or a bunch of people. So there are and I love how you drew all those parallels in the book.   So   so let's do that. So I wanna do number one. I wanna just make sure that people understand,   like, what is it so that they're not like, oh my god. This is some satanic cult thing or weird, you know, whatever. And then the second thing I wanna ask you, we're gonna go back to,   you know, time preferences and, you know, the   the hijacking of the stress chemicals   that live within us. And and I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand. Like, we are being,   driven   by, you know, these forces because of the stress outside, and then it causes stress within. And these chemicals are just like, oh my god. Amygdala. Let's go. We have to go do fight or flight and, you know, hurry. Hurry. Hurry. And so so let's just make sure that everybody understands,   you know,   what the DAO is, you know, and just go a little bit deeper so that people who because, like, if there are people who are listening right now who are Christian per chance or, you know, you know, have a certain faith, Is this something that or is it does it go against their religion?  



[00:30:41] Unknown:

Yeah. And that's a great place to start because,   Taoism, I don't think is actually at odds with any other Yeah. Sort of, of the more traditional religions.   The Tao,   the belief is that,   there is sort of a central   underlying and universal force, a principle   that guides the the physical reality,   in in every way and connects all things. And so that thing,   intrinsic to its nature is that it's procedural.   So,   everything   is, sort of constantly in motion,   but the the end result of any of that motion is that everything is kind of like a return trip,   back to the DAO. So it's like   birth, you know, if we're thinking about a human life, we we we are born,   we die, we return.  

The the, seasons   in,   throughout throughout the course of a year, we always will get back to winter. Right? Right? It's like Yeah. We yeah. So so the the yin yang symbol, which, is means a few different things, and we talk about the importance of,   the union of opposites and duality is a is a very strong,   way of thinking about making sense of the universe in Daoism, but it's also   actually like a frozen snapshot of this sort of, like, spinning cycle. So, like, the the the yin yang symbol is is a is a way to visualize,   this this constant motion of,   procedurally returning   to, you know, a spiraling endpoint that you never get back to where you started, but you're always coming back to the center.  

And, yeah. So, I mean, I think, like, you know,   this is, like, a a massive butchering. But   inspiration for, for the force in Star Wars, like, this is a way to if you wanna think about it in a very simple way. Yeah. It it's this idea that there there is something underlying   that,   organizes and connects all things and drives   the procedural nature of of everything that exists in the world around us. I love that you say procedural nature, you know, because  

[00:32:52] Unknown:

so many of us, right, that are,   you know, ethereal and out here in, you know,   all this land. Like, math is so grounding. I think math is one of the most grounding. It it to me, it's the most grounding thing in the world because I can count on it. Like, I can go to another country.   I can go here. I haven't been to other universes just yet in this body.   But, like, I know that, like, math is something that's a very grounding thing. And so when we think of, like, a procedural nature and I think, you know, we talk about this a lot with   the, you know, just the philosophy of Bitcoin and why it is grounding   because it's TikTok next block every ten minutes. It's rules, not rulers. It's all of the things that,   you know, the the humans   humans have such a great potential to do all these great big things, but they also have a great potential to corrupt a whole bunch of things and mess them up.  

In math,   you can't mess up math. One plus one is two. Okay? That's it. Like, I don't care. You can argue with me all day long. It's not gonna change the fact that this plus this means there's two of these things. And so   there's something   in our nervous systems, especially those of us on the spectrum   who are just like, yay. Great.   I can count on that. You know? Because when we're out there in the other worlds   of humans, it's just like, well, did she mean what she said, and did he really tell the truth? And is this really what it seems? And we're constantly bombarded with these un un,   I don't wanna say untruths, but   things that could, you know, be subject to the human   condition versus  

[00:34:37] Unknown:

one plus one is two. Totally. I love what you're saying there. To   me, that's exactly the differences. The the the the the gap between subjectivity and objectivity.   Yeah. And,   once things become subjective is when,   you know, we're all we're all left to our own ability to interpret them and stay calm. And,   you know, in the in the case of money, we're we're we're all doing this on our own individual hamster wheels that are spinning faster and faster   depending on where we live. You know, like, it's it's not just that the game is is hard. The game's getting progressively harder,   by design, which,   makes the challenge of staying objective  

[00:35:16] Unknown:

harder and harder. So I think that there's Is there is there real other than math, truly other than math, and even though we say,   like, okay. Whatever. Here's the 10 commandments. Here's the Jedi code. Here's the blah blah blah, my own personal 11 x code. Like, this is what I do with, you know, my   work.   We're still subject to not live by those rules. Mhmm. You know? Because if we get presented with something as a little flawed human   who might be hungry, angry, lonely, tired,   horny,   alone, broke, whatever it is that we are,   our decision making mechanism isn't the same   as it would be if we weren't those things. And so we might be like, well,   my kid's screaming.  

I don't have any money, and there's a loaf of bread. I'm gonna go steal that loaf of bread versus the person who is resourced   and has money. And they're just like, of course, I'm not gonna go steal the loaf of bread. I'm gonna give them some money and buy the loaf of bread.   You're still the same person. You just have different circumstances   that are   surrounding your decision matrix. You know? But   with Bitcoin and with the Dow,   it's like   there's no, like, well, it's Thursday. It's a full moon. You know? It's Val's birthday.   The stars are aligned, and maybe this block isn't gonna look like this on, you know, the Bitcoin blockchain, and we're gonna just do something different today because she's on her period, you know, or whatever.  

So it's like,   no.   Bitcoin and math are just like,   nope. We're doing the thing. There is no subjectivity.   And so where the yin and yang come in where you're speaking, like, we have the subjective and the objective. And so I think that's what's   so sexy about Bitcoin and math. Right? Because you're just like,   I can count on you. You know? Because I do wanna go be free and weird   and enjoy the dancing under the full moon versus, like, okay. TikTok, next block. You know? And so we want both of that, and we want the tension of the object the objectivity versus the subjectivity.   And so,   I don't know. I'm rambling here.  

But, like, but how has it been for you since you've, you know, come into this you know, it sounds like you've been a DAOist for quite a while,   you know, and then having this awakening that Bitcoin is, you know, analogous in some ways to the DAO. Like, how has it changed your worldview? How has it changed your relationships and how you, like, approach what you're doing each day with your goals, dreams, and vision?  

[00:37:50] Unknown:

Yeah. Maybe a few different threads to pull on there. One, I think, you know and and so   to come back to the DAO,   the the notion that all things are created as a result   of the way the DAO is intrinsically   is,   why I would   why I do consider that Bitcoin itself exists.   This is   all there's a natural order of the way things are supposed to be, and, this is depending on how woo people wanna get. But,   Yeah. I I it makes perfect sense to me that,   you know, we we've been provided everything.   The everything that we need, right, to live on Earth. We we have air. We have water. We have bananas.   And, we we we invented money. And, we we were even provided things that we could use as money. Right? Like gold. There have been lots of different forms of physical money over the years.  

And,   and so we're given everything, everything that we need. And, so so this is another thing that we've been given   to,   enable us to interact with the universe in the way that we're supposed   to. So,   I I think I mean, I think about it that way. It it was very,   what I was describing earlier about this concept of being able to spend more time in the present moment   is the biggest thing that I probably observed in terms of, like, how I change my day to day. So Mhmm. I don't really,   I just don't really think about the future all that more, in a way that I used to   because it's it's an understanding. And and I love to, you know, I have this phrase, like, you know, what is the DAO of Bitcoin?  

The DAO of Bitcoin is a sense of tranquility that accompanies a comprehension of energy money. So when when you've really Say that again. Say it. Go slow. Sure. It's a sense of tranquility   that accompanies a comprehension of energy money. A sense of tranquility that accompanies  

[00:39:44] Unknown:

an energy money. A comprehension of energy money. A comprehension of energy money. A comprehension of energy money. Okay. Let's go. Go get in that. So when you've really, really grokked  

[00:39:53] Unknown:

what it means   to have a financial tool   that preserves your time and energy.  

[00:39:59] Unknown:

Uh-huh.  

[00:40:00] Unknown:

Then,   the the paralyzing   anxiety of the future   that is truly actually rooted in some sort of underlying subconscious understanding that your time and energy is being stolen from you, That part is now   gone. Okay. And now in the absence of that, like, what is what are the things that keep us out of experience truly experiencing the present moment?   It's the little whispers of the hamster wheel in your head. Right? It is. Yep. And so once you have taken out of that noise, now, you know, this is   you know, if you you know, everybody, I think, who meditates has, like, good days and bad days. And some days, you're like it's just, like, calm waters. And other days you're like, why is this monkey in my head banging a giant symbol? Totally do. And,   yeah. And this is like a this is a big source of   of the distraction,   and it's a source of   decisions that we make that aren't probably, you know, aligned with the people we wanna be.  

So,   yeah, I mean, I think that it's   it's sort of twofold. Once you start experiencing,   more time in the present moment,   and this is another sort of concept. The idea that it's it's an inward journey. Taoism is Taoism,   experiencing the Tao is something that is sort of felt. It's not really thought through. Like, this it's an experience,   and it's a state of being that is transitory. So you have times where you're, like, really in the flow, where you're really present, and you have times where you're less present. Like, it's not like you know, I'm I'm not a monk. I don't live on a top of a mountain by myself. Like, it's,   so,   Bitcoin is a tool that enables you to spend more of your time there when you truly understand what it's doing for you.  

And,   that's why I say, like, I don't think for most people   who really understand it, it's not about getting them rich,   in the material wealth sense. And because and I actually don't even think that's what most people are hoping to accomplish.  

[00:42:01] Unknown:

Well, and what does material wealth give us? It gives us   choice.   Choice is what? It gives us freedom. You know? And so to me, like, I think about, like, you know, obviously, there's a set of humans who are just like, I just wanna keep score and have 20 Ferraris and do the whole thing, and they're in that that,   leaderboard game. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about, like, the quality of life.   Right? And so what is quality of life? Right? It's like, do I have to get up every single day, six days a week, five days a week at 04:45   in the morning so I can go sit in the car for an hour and fifteen minutes   and then slog to this other person's dream, and then I get to be a cog in their dream. And then I come home, and I have a tiny paycheck. But, gee, look. It's consistent.  

And no. No. That's not freedom. You know? That's you're you like you said, you're in your hamster wheel. You know? So you're in the external hamster wheel. You're in the internal hamster wheel.   What would you say? So the I wanna come back with you, Scott, just about, like   people don't understand   the the mechanism   of how we're all being hijacked   right now with our dopamine dopamine circuits and all the chemicals that are going on with,   I checked in the social media or checked in the mainstream media or I did this.   The world's on fire. I need to go, you know,   keep tuning in even though I don't wanna even see it. Right? You know? And and   when those   stress hormones are released in our body so we have, obviously, reward hormones and reward circuits, and we have stress circuits. Like, when we're in a constant mode of stress, which I think by design,   the mainstream media is promoting,   Like, we're not gonna make the same decisions as if we were, you know,   The chickens need to get fed today. Okay. Cool. Awesome. I gotta give my kids some breakfast. Great. Cool. You know, you're in this like, oh my god. They're gonna blow up the Tesla station down the road. And this and that is gonna happen. You know, the whole you're just like   you know? And you're not thinking clearly, and then you're acting sometimes like a jerk at home or a jerk to yourself and not doing self care.  

Like, how do we, you know,   how do we counterbalance   that with a daily practice? How do you counterbalance that with a daily practice?  

[00:44:26] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, so, you know, some of those things you were talking about earlier on,   how people express wealth are I think of it as, like,   most people, you know, we we get rid of the 20 Ferrari people.   And and then   the the vast majority of people are really thinking about different ways to articulate having autonomy over their time. Yeah. And, the reason that we're fighting for this autonomy over our time is, like, you're you're pouring water in the top, and the water's dry dripping out of the bottom. Right? So, like, the the core root of the problem here is that we just don't actually have an effective way to store our time.   Yeah. Right. And so it's not just that we can't store it, but it's that inflation,   progressively devalues your time. It makes the money that you've saved, the time that you've already spent, it makes that worth less, and it makes you have to spend more of your current time than you used to have to to accomplish those same things in the future. So it's like, it's truly actually   pirating our time.  

And this is   so this is why I think,   what we're seeing is this is this sort of compression of attention span   from, you know, like, we used   to we used to.   If you wanted to watch a show that was on Thursday night at eight, like, you planned your week around being at home. You're home at 08:00. The Simpsons are on. Let's go.   Yeah. Hey, man. There was no ability to speed that up. And this is I think this actually might be a Tomer idea, but, there is there is no way   to speed Bitcoin up. No. Right? Like, this is a if you wanna move,   move yourself to Bitcoin time, to the Bitcoin clock,   then nothing you can do can accelerate   what,   what will happen on on Bitcoin time.  

And,   so in that way even, I think that Bitcoin is,   like a giant,   represents a giant standardization   of the human perception of time. And I think that's where we are headed as more   people come online and and understand what's actually happening is the standardization   of the value of time and the end of the theft of time   will really synchronize. And Tomer and I actually did a had a conversation about this Bitcoin synchronizing   human consciousness.   It's the idea that,   you know, it's like a giant metronome.   And,   we we can't help but eventually all click into the same rhythm,   which is a very cool idea. I think, but that wasn't the question you asked me. It was,   oh, so, Jose, so how do I think that these things,   you know, so all of these decisions that we're making, consumer decisions,   you know, porn is such a good example. It's like this is something I think that by and large gets done   because we need these,   you know, we we need to,   balance the the the stress   systems with, with dopamine, like and the less time we have to do that   that we have to do that with, we need to turn our, focus on   things that deliver that dopamine in shorter and shorter amounts of time. So it's it was one minute Instagram video. Now it's like a seven second TikTok video. You know, it could be like Mhmm. You know, progressively,   shittier food or,   you know,   porn replacing genuine intimacy. I think, like you know, I always think about these, like, I love you know, you go to restaurants. Right? And it's it's just such a bizarre thing.  

This is a very in the grand scheme of a lifetime of humanity, a very new phenomenon   that you could go out to a public place where people have met up to be there together like a restaurant. And at that place, those people who met to be together are all sitting there staring at their phones, watching other people do other things   somewhere all you know, like, you've got four people who are having dinner together, and they're all looking at Instagram. It's just the weirdest thing. It's the weirdest for sure. Yeah. And and I feel like,  

[00:48:24] Unknown:

I love that you brought up porn, and I'm gonna say this because I've had some, you know, yay. Hi, Heather. Love you so much, sister. I   love that you brought in a you know, not to be,   just whatever. But, like, the short term mindset of instant gratification of, like, I have to have a release   or I have to have this expression, or I have to have this consumption   of something really quick.   It's so fake and false.   You know? And,   we think about the production. Just think about production of the throwaway cycle.   Things are like plastic plastic straws, plastic cups, dead you know, plastic toys.  

Oh, cool. You throw this thing in your kid's Christmas stocking. You do the whatever.   We are not in this, you know, let's have, like, a cradle to grave kind of mindset of consumerism   and say, like, well, yeah, this is gonna last me for, like, forty years. I've got a great sweater. Like, I don't need to go get 40 sweaters. You know? Again and so   because of whoever's got control of the narrative,   social media, mainstream media, all the propaganda   outlets and whatnot,   they want you to feel like you don't have enough, that you're not enough. And unless you purchase these things,   you're gonna be a loser. You know? And so you need to go do this this spin cycle, you know, of of consumption.  

And so,   you know, when I think about   again, coming back to nature.   Right? And you were saying this earlier.   You can't go put a seed in the ground and go dig it up every day and go, did you grow today?   And go faster, go faster, go faster. Like, you can't do that to Bitcoin.   It's every 10 minutes.   It's math. You know? And so, oh,   okay.   The summer and the fall and the winter and the spring. Like,   nobody on Earth has ever hijacked that. They're trying to with all of our chemtrails and all the bullshit. I'm sure this video, the fact that I just said chemtrails is gonna be taken down. I've already had it taken down with Ben Worman, and so fuck you, YouTube, if you take it down. But sorry.   They just they do. The minute you say one word, they're just like, you're not allowed to talk about that.  

But coming back to the sex part in the porn,   people don't understand,   like, because and I think I have a son who's 16. I have a daughter who's, you know, 19. My son will be almost 17.   They're they're fed all of this TikTok videos, and this is how you relate with people. And you don't have to talk to them. You can just text them or   you can break up with them via text.   You don't have to even, like, do face to face and be a human anymore. And, you know,   I have a feeling I'm a little bit older than you, and   that's not how it worked back in the day. If you broke up with somebody, you, like, told them. You didn't just, like, send them a text or ghost them, you know? And, like, the way that people think about   how they treat people,   how they treat the environment,   how they treat themselves   is it's like this throwaway  

[00:51:29] Unknown:

mentality. You know? I talk about this in the book. You know, it's like,   disposable world. Everything becomes disposable and we can't help it. I think   for a lot of us in the end,   we are products of our environment. And so we started to think of ourselves as disposable. We started to think of other people as disposable.   And,   yeah.  

[00:51:51] Unknown:

Yeah. And it's like your only is your your self worth relies on the things that you can do, not who you are. Mhmm. You know? And and   so then people are always hustling like, oh, I gotta get the injection or move my face to do this thing or my boobs need to come up here or whatever it is. You know? And so people are constantly altering   this   skin suit or this external thing versus, like,   what if you spent all that time on your internal   operating system, you know, to figure out, like, how can I be more present, like you said? And and   I I'm I'm working with somebody, a client right now, who's constantly in this just like, what's the next high? What's the next adrenaline? What's the next, the next, the next, the next? And I'm like,   have fun with that. Like, because there will never be anything will satisfy you   ever. Yeah. Like, until you can get in a flow state, you know, and and a state of nowness,   like, you're always gonna think that whatever the next thing is is gonna feed that that emptiness that lives within you. And the only thing that's gonna feed it is truly being present with God's spirit universe, the Tao, whatever people call it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's another is our core tenant on Taoism is this concept of wu wei, which is an effortless action.  



[00:53:10] Unknown:

And this is when you're just you know, it's like thinking of the the streams already flowing anyways.   Yeah. And,   you say you don't need to do nothing,   but you you you don't wanna be rowing in the wrong direction. Mhmm. Or if you're rowing too hard, you're you're gonna you might get somewhere faster than you want it. Right? So it's like,   I think that   if you're continually chasing,   then it's going to be very difficult to be in the place where you're you're, like, satisfied with doing the right amount of anything. You're gonna always be trying to do too much   or not doing enough. And,   these are these are things that keep us out of, like,  

[00:53:49] Unknown:

being where we wanna be truly. Well, let's talk about gratitude because I think gratitude is a very big energy   source   of presence.   You know? Because a lot of people,   you know, are you know, myself included, people I work with, you know, obviously, billions of us who are just like,   you know, I'm comparing myself, and that person has more, does this, or da da da da. I'm not up here, and I'm not there. And and   it takes us out of the moment of like, wow.   I have a chair underneath my my my bottom. I have arms. I'm looking at a light. I have sight. I can hear. I have electricity.   I have food. I have nourishment. I have a roof over my head. My child is sleeping in the next room. I mean, like, in twelve seconds, I just went through something that elevated my vibration to a state of, like,   holy cow. I'm in power. I'm, like, in a really good spot right now. Mhmm. But people are in this state of   comparisonitis,   I call it. Right? Yeah. You know? And they're just like, oh my god. I have to do the thing. And so they're never grateful   for all the, like,   multitude of blessings, especially   in our in our   privileged first world countries compared to these other places where it's like,   you're sleeping in a bed with four people.  

Like,   that's not fun if they're not your lover.  

[00:55:14] Unknown:

You know? I mean, you know what's crazy is, like, I do truly think that a lot of those people are actually happier than the average person in the Western world. And, like, this is just something we do see all over the world. Like, people who are living with less or even, like, way more traditional lifestyles and no electricity.   You know, they're they're super happy. They have no conception of the kind of bullshit   that's making us, like, feel empty and alone and isolated and and,   you know, no self worth. Like, these are,  

[00:55:45] Unknown:

these are all broken money, like, secondary effects of broken money. Well, but and and, again, like, you know, we think about and I don't know about you, but I've been to many third world countries, and people will give you their last grain of rice. Mhmm. And they'll just be like, no. No. No. You have it. We want you're our guest. Come here. And I'm just like, no. You know? But, like, again, coming back to the narrative and the programming,   when we have this programming that we say yes to   of, like, oh gosh. Like, oh, Val has wrinkles. Like, you're not supposed to have wrinkles. I'm like, yeah. I am. I'm 55. I'm supposed to have a lot of wrinkles. You know? Like, I'm not supposed to look like I was when I was 20, but they're gonna try to convince me that unless I buy those products and do those things,   which will never get me back to the way I was,   it's like, you know, you're chasing the the carrot that you're never gonna catch. And so then you end up having that feeling of, oh, god. Am I never gonna be good enough, and I'm not worthy. And and people get depressed, and they take all these substances, and they do all the things to try to compensate for that feeling of   not good enough. And I'm like,   you are good enough in this moment. Like, in this very moment. Like, spirit, god, universe, the Tao loves you. Like, the fact that you exist means that you're worthy to be here on Earth.  



[00:56:59] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, and you're like a miracle to even be here. There was probably, like, 10,000,000 other sperm  

[00:57:04] Unknown:

that were competing with you to be the the, you know, like, half of what started you in the first place. So Exactly. Well, and you think about that. Right, Scott? And you're like, that was just one incident. Yeah. Totally. Think about all the incidents where the other sperms were like, maybe today is my lucky day. Yeah. Those are a lot of days.  

[00:57:22] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. You know,   so I and I do talk about this in the book. The concept of gratitude,   I think, is really, in the Daoist sense, intimately intertwined with this,   procedural   when you believe in this procedural nature of all things, you understand impermanence.   And   when you understand that nothing lasts, like because you mentioned aging, it's just such a great example. Right? But wealth is the same. Yep. Everything has a cycle that that will,   you know, return. And so,   I think that the basis of that belief is a great place to start in terms of just being so   being more connected with what you do have in as opposed to what you don't.  



[00:58:05] Unknown:

Totally. Have you ever been to Burning Man, Scott?  

[00:58:08] Unknown:

It's funny. I have not, but I I'm going this year for my first burn. Fuck. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay.  

[00:58:15] Unknown:

Burning Man,   birth, and being a DJ in Bitcoin. Okay. So four things changed my life   forever.   And so   you're gonna love it. And as you, being you,   not that I have I I I think I know you a tiny bit. Like, Burning Man's gonna be a game changer. And Burning Man is all about impermanence,   you know, because it's like   people go out. And I've been going since the late nineties.   You know? And, intermittently,   it has been a minute since I've been,   and I'm I'm due for another Burning Man trips here very soon. But, like, you go out there, and   the magnitude   of the art and the effort and the   just the pure, like, determination   to go   build the things that people build out there on the playa,   Some of them get burned, and they're gone forever.  

Some of them get disassembled and reassembled maybe for next year, or perhaps they stick it in a park, whatever it is, but it's impermanence at its finest.   Most of us never even contemplate impermanence because we're just like, I'm gonna do this thing, and I'm gonna get married, and it's gonna be forever. I'm gonna build the thing or be in a house. And it's like, no. Like,   in a blink of an eye, it's all over. You know? And and it's a very difficult concept because that creates, like,   instability   in our mental framework because we're just like, oh, shit. Like, it's always gonna be changing? Oh, no. You know? And it's like, yeah. Welcome to surfing.   Like, there's no wave that's like, here's the wave.  

I'm on the top of it. I'm gonna be here forever. No, dude. Like, you're gonna fucking wipe out. You're gonna have to go paddle out there and get on that sucker again. And chances are you're not getting the next one.  

[01:00:04] Unknown:

I mean and, like, there there is no such thing as legacy for almost all of us.   And so it really is about our own ability to be in the now moment, enjoying this thing as best as we possibly can for as much of it as we possibly can. Right? It's like   because when when it is over and it will end for all of us, this is the one thing we, you know, we certainly all have in common. Yeah.  

[01:00:26] Unknown:

Nobody's gonna care. I go ahead. And and and I love that you just said that, Scott, because, like, so many people go around again. Like, we we I call it Judgey McJudgerson. You know? And we're always like, oh,   he's doing that. She's doing that. Am I as good as it's like,   nobody's thinking about you. Nobody cares.   Do what is the most divine   divinely inspired thing within you   because   you're the only one that's truly living in your shoes. And, like, even if you try to go conform or do something that you think is gonna, like, people please another person,   they don't   care. Like, they care and they're like, well, that's nice. High five. Okay. Good job. Like, do the thing that is most authentic and delicious to you as a human soul. Right?  

I know you've got   a a meeting. You said you've gotta jump too soon. So how many minutes do we have here? I don't wanna overgo our time. Twenty.   How many? Twenty. Twenty. Oh, great. Okay. Cool. I mean, I could talk about this stuff for ten years. So but I don't wanna take up too much of your time.   But so okay. So going to Burning Man, Scott, tell me, like, what's tell me about your Burning Man journey. Yeah. First of all,  

[01:01:40] Unknown:

serendipitous,   connection. Our CTO   is a long time burner as well. And so,   there's a handful of us from, Kelowna, Canada where I live that have joined a very   established,   camp.   And, so we're we're   we're benefiting by by   getting on board something that's already been you know, spent a lot of time maturing. And That's so good. Like, we're I because I you know, now that we're into the planning, we just got our tickets a few weeks ago. Like, I would I we wouldn't you know, you truly, like, for I know that people would just do it. They just go for their first time, but it's a it's a lot to bite off, and there's a lot to think about, the preparation and planning.   So,   yeah, I'm thrilled that we have some,   and you know what's cool about Burning Man? I would say so far, having not been, is   how people think about first time burners and the the wanting for,   you know, for other people to have the experience that they did or that they do when they go when if they were if they're going every year. And so it's an exciting thing about it that I, like,   I'm just getting,   I'm already feeling the anticipation for the for the experience that's gonna make me wanna do that for other people when I am done,   next year.  



[01:02:53] Unknown:

Well, think of the analogy, like, how it is with Bitcoin, right, and the Dow. It's like,   once you've gotten this, like,   oh my god. This is mad this is just cool. It's magic. Like, you want other people to get   the sprinkling of the magic. Right? And so, like and I always talk about this, like,   with many of my Burning Man friends. I I I say many. There's a handful of us who are Bitcoiners also. A lot of burners are not Bitcoiners, but they don't know that yet. Because I'm like, you're totally Bitcoiners. You just you don't know that you're Bitcoiners yet. You know? And same thing with Bitcoiners. They're just like, you're burners. You just don't know it yet.   So it's like you said precoiner or pre, you know, DAOIST. You know? So it's like pre burners.  

Mhmm.   But, like   because it's magic. I mean, there's no other things on Earth that are like Burning Man.   You can go to Lollapalooza   or all the festivals and all the concerts. No. Not even not even a fraction of what Burning Man is. Right? That's like saying crypto is like Bitcoin. You know? Here's my shit token, and it's the same. No. It's not. It's ridiculous. And so   there's the pinnacle   of purity,   and Bitcoin to me and Burning Man are the pinnacles of, like,   pure human experiences. And I just love Daoism so much. And, yeah, I just think it's neat that you're going. Okay. So I know I might go this year. My friend has got well, I have many different friends, but they're just like, we've got the dragon art car. You should come. And I'm like, I mean so I don't know.   But that's gonna be so fun, dude. Like, you're gonna have the best time ever. Is your wife going? Yep. Yep. Oh, good. Okay. There's actually 20 of us. Like, sort of 20 of our closest friends are are going to join a camp that has another 20 or 25 people. So Oh, are you bringing RVs?  

Yep.   Good. Do that. I mean, when I was younger, back in the nineties, you know, ages ago, I was like, I'll bring a tent.   It doesn't really work out when there's 80 mile an hour winds that blow everything away. Yeah. So RVs are better. So make sure you have an RV.  

[01:05:01] Unknown:

Yeah. We we we, we we've got that sorted out.  

[01:05:04] Unknown:

One thing that's really cool, Scott, at Burning Man,   you know, it's a gift economy. It's not a it's not a barter economy. So it's not like, oh, I'm gonna give you something, and what do you have in exchange? It's just kinda like you show up and you give gifts.   There's a if you find it, it would be really cool. There's a the tuna guys.   These guys from Alaska, they literally come with a a semi truck filled with frozen tuna,   and they've got this huge,   camp. And, you know, you can show up with a can of beans or some tortillas or a bottle of whiskey or whatever you want. Right? Everybody just shows up with whatever, but these guys are just nonstop making, like, it's tuna taco Tuesday, or we're making Hawaiian tuna on Wednesday. And so they're constantly just like,   here you go. We're just cooking and chefing food up for you. And so it's, like, cool people just show up and they bring stuff. But so one of the fun things   about Burning Man   is going with gifts to give.  

And so, you know, a lot of ravers I don't know if you've have you ever been to a rave? Like, do you know about all that? Yeah. You can here's my little beady bracelet. You know? But some people show up with, like,   here's a sticker or here's a, you know, a a cup or a picture or a magnet with a cool thing on it. You know? So people just show up with these cool little, like, mini   art project gifts, and then they just stick them in their little, you know, pack, and then they go, and then they just meet these new friends. They're just like, I have a gift to give you. And it's like   it's like Christmas for seven days. It's so much fun. But you get to be Santa and the   kids.  

It's so fun. I love it.   I love Bernie Mann, dude. Well, okay. So let's, like, tell tell everybody where can they find you and, you know, obviously, we've got Lantern. Where did Lantern Bitcoin come from? Like, that's an interesting name for your, you know, your Twitter handle on your website. Yeah.  

[01:07:02] Unknown:

You know, the the website just came after because of the Twitter handle. I was, when I was first thinking about this and all these concepts, to me, like, Lantern is, like, a really old way of illuminating something. Cool. Yeah. So for me, that this is out of how I'm thinking about things and and how I'm thinking about Bitcoin.   And, so that's what lantern Bitcoin is.   Red Chinese lanterns. You know, there are some truly incredible places   sort of buried deep in in China where you know, because China is, like,   it's a four thousand year continuous civilization,   and,   there there has been a lot of warring inside China, but, like, you know, it was never bombed.  

So there's there's a lot of   really incredibly preserved ancient cities where you can see,   the the the truly, like, sort of classical   style of arc architecture that is, like, indicative of of ancient China. And, and the lanterns are everywhere. So,   yeah. It's like a it's another part of that nostalgia from my time there that I, that I hold dear.   So I'm on Twitter, Lantern Bitcoin. I'm on Twitter more than I need to be, but I do, you know, everybody has advice.   I know. Alright. You can catch me on LinkedIn if this is more of a professional. I definitely spend, time there as well, and I love to connect,   on LinkedIn. I love, connect with any Bitcoiners,   or otherwise. And, and if you're interested to sort of learn more about Block Rewards and what we're doing,   you know, there's the there's the LinkedIn page for Block Rewards as well and, BlockRewards.ca.  



[01:08:33] Unknown:

I love it. And so okay. I'm gonna show something super quick and for Burning Man,   going back again. Cool. So there's the lamplighters,   at Burning Man. And so these are the and this is just my little, whatever, quickie Google search, so I'll just share it.   Let's make sure we can see. Yeah. No. This is not good. Here.   Go. There. So the lamplighters at Burning Man   are these folks who do a procession the night of the burn, which is Saturday night.   And so all these people show up, you know, and it's obviously pre,   preorganized. You can't just, like, you know, show up and be a a lamp guy.  

But you you can obviously do it. Like, they want all these people, but they show up and they do this,   you know, ceremonial, procession   the night of the burn on Saturday night, and then that's when they burn the man. And so if you would like,   my friend, Steve O, is one of the organizers of this. I'll be happy to connect you. I would love that. Yes. Like Yeah.   Okay. Cool. Very cool. Alright. I'm connecting Steve O.   Oh my god. Steve O is the best, dude. I've known this guy for twenty five years. I love him so much. Cool.   Lamp lighters.  

But, yeah, that's it's like a you know, it's a thing, and you get it. Like, when there's a ceremonial   element of of that. And then when you see that on Saturday night, like, oh my god. It's just   it's just so beautiful. I feel like we've lost   rituals   in our culture.   You know? In Western civilization, we've lost rites of passage.   We've lost rituals,   and   everything we do, like you said, is just kind of here. And and I feel like young people don't have the privilege of different rites of pass passages that they've had, you know, in other cultures. And   that's why I think Burning Man is such a you know, one of the many attractive   experiences because there are a lot of,   rituals and ceremonies.  

And, again, it's nondenominational,   so it's not like some you know, you anybody can participate. You know?   I don't know. It's just neat. I'm so glad you're going, and I'm so glad you're going with your wife. You guys have to have the best costumes ever. I'll help you if you want. Okay. Yeah. I love that question. She's, ahead of the game on compared to me. I I don't really have anything organized just yet.   Well, you're good. Your March you you got plenty of time, but still, like, it's nice to get your get your vibes going.   Thank you so much for spending all this time. I love your book, and, you know, I got to listen to it on audio, so that was so great. I'm an audiobook listener, of course.  

But you guys make sure you go to lanternbitcoin.com.   You can get the book,   on Amazon, and you can also get the Bitcoin for financial advisors book. We didn't talk a lot about that, and you can obviously go follow Scott on, on x at lanternbitcoin   and, block reward block underscore rewards on x. What is the the LinkedIn one?  

[01:11:33] Unknown:

It's I think it's just block rewards, all one word. Linkedin slash block rewards. Okay. Cool. So you guys make sure you go follow him, and then,  

[01:11:40] Unknown:

yeah, maybe we'll see each other out on the playa.   If, if the DAO works out for us, we'll be able to play together.   But I will definitely get you in touch with Steve. I'm gonna do this as soon as I get off the call.   But, yeah, thanks everybody for tuning in, and thank you, Scott, so much. And you guys seriously pick up this book. It's so cool. And if you're interested in, you know, the the intersection between Bitcoin and spirituality   and philosophy,  

[01:12:06] Unknown:

like, you know, Scott's your man. And Yeah. Thanks, pal. I I you know, I would say, like, one thing about the book. You know? There there are plenty of really great Bitcoin books.   This book, I think, in part, is written for the kind of people we were talking about earlier who,   are trying to understand this energetic disconnect with money and can't, can't articulate or put words to it. And so,   that that's kinda what it that's kinda what it is. I I I think that, you know, it's normal that,   or it's not uncommon for for that type of person to not really be so, wired into listening to macroeconomics   or wanting to maybe read the Bitcoin standard.  

So, it might not be,   the Bitcoin book for everybody, but,   yeah, if you do read it, I I hope you enjoy it, and I love hearing from people who have. So if you do decide to check it out,   Yeah. I I, I I anytime, please hit me up. And,   any feedback is is really truly appreciated.  

[01:13:01] Unknown:

Totally. And and you guys, seriously, when authors say that, they mean it. They want to hear from you. This isn't like a should I tell send them a text? No. Send a text. Like, message people. Like, the reason why we do this, whether we're podcasters, authors, video people, like, we wanna share our messages with you, and we love to hear from you. So please make sure you get ahold of Scott. And, and I love it, Scott. I'm so grateful, and,   I'm so glad to to now get to call you a friend, and we've gotten to have this exchange. And I'm just yeah. Keep rocking, brother. And maybe I'll see you on the fly. But I'm gonna hook you up with Steve O after. And, everybody, thank you guys so much for tuning in, and make sure you guys get this book. And text Scott after you've done it read it or listened to it.   Alright. Peace, love, and warm aloha. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, guys. Mhmm. Yay.