Happy Thankful Thursday! Today, we have a lot to be thankful for, especially the freedom of Ross Ulbricht, which is a testament to the power of community and collaboration. In this episode, we dive into the world of artistic collaborations within the Bitcoin community, featuring two incredible guests, Bevan Waite and Tomer Strolight. These talented creatives have joined forces over ten times, blending their unique skills to create magic in the Bitcoin space.
Bevan shares his journey from filmmaking to Bitcoin, driven by a desire to secure his future in a freelance world. Discover how his passion for storytelling and design led him to create Bit Intelligence, a YouTube channel dedicated to educating others about Bitcoin through visually captivating films. Bevan's collaboration with Tomer, a prolific writer, has resulted in powerful films like "The Legendary Treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto," which has garnered significant attention and views.
Tomer, an obsessed Bitcoiner since 2013, shares his journey of contributing to the community through concise, impactful writing. His "Why Bitcoin?" book has become a favorite among Bitcoiners, offering insights that resonate with both newcomers and seasoned enthusiasts. Tomer's dedication to creating beautiful, meaningful content has led to collaborations with artists like Bevan, resulting in visually stunning films that capture the essence of Bitcoin's philosophy.
Throughout the episode, we explore the creative processes of Bevan and Tomer, highlighting the role of AI in enhancing their artistic endeavors. While AI serves as a tool for inspiration and organization, both emphasize the importance of maintaining a human touch in their work. The discussion also touches on the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in the creative world.
As we wrap up, we encourage aspiring Bitcoin artists to embrace their passions, collaborate with others, and use platforms like Nostr to connect with their audience. The episode is a celebration of creativity, collaboration, and the transformative power of Bitcoin in the artistic realm.
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Watch Legendary Treasure
https://youtu.be/iIWViimqRMU?si=gHgWZpTUV95e2QJG
https://www.blurb.com/b/11110527-why-bitcoin-hardcover-premium-pearl-photo-paper
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(00:00:33) Introduction and Gratitude
(00:00:45) Artistic Collaborations in Bitcoin
(00:01:50) Guest Introductions: Bevan Waite and Tomer Strolight
(00:02:31) Bevan Waite's Journey into Bitcoin
(00:07:15) Tomer Strolight's Bitcoin Obsession
(00:12:26) Collaborative Projects and Artistic Vision
(00:17:32) The Creative Process: From Words to Visuals
(00:34:05) AI in Art and Writing
(00:45:38) Balancing Passion and Professionalism
(00:55:18) Encouraging Creativity in the Next Generation
(01:04:08) The Value of Artistic Collaboration
(01:10:33) Final Thoughts and Future Projects
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[00:00:33]
Unknown:
Aloha, love tribe. Happy thankful Thursday. We have a lot to be thankful for today. One thing I'm ultra thankful for is that Ross is free. That is one of the coolest things to be thankful for. And, you know, something in the the topic of this episode is gonna be the artistic collaborations for Bitcoiners. And my two guests today are wonderful creatives and artists and educators. And what is so cool about Bitcoin is it brings so many people together from so many different walks of life to make something magic happen. And so Ross got free, obviously, because of his mom and because of the entire Bitcoin community. And so what I really wanna emphasize today is the magic of collaboration, the magic of coming together, the magic of asking questions, raising your hand, not being afraid, and and standing up for something that you believe in and using your god given talents to make the world a better place. And so my 2 guests today are 2 men who I am so madly in love with and love their art, love their creativity, love their contribution to the Bitcoin space. They've had over 10 collaborations together, and I would imagine there's gonna be a whole bunch more. So welcome, Bevin Waite and Tomer Strollite. How's it going, guys? Woo hoo.
Woo hoo.
[00:01:47] Unknown:
Yay. Yeah. Happy to be here. Yeah.
[00:01:51] Unknown:
I know Bevan and I, we talked to, like, a couple months ago. I'm like, would you could you wanna do, like, a a thing with Tomer, and we'll come back? And he and he's like, yeah. And so it's been a little bit of a, you know, a delay, but everything is in in divine alignment with right timing. So why don't you guys introduce yourselves a little bit and, like, let everybody here know who you are? I know most people probably already know you, but if we've got some new listeners, I'd love for them to know, you know, more about each of your work. And so, Bevin, I'm gonna have you go first, and, welcome you guys, and happy Thursday.
[00:02:24] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. So my background, I I guess, how I got into into Bitcoin, I was a filmmaker for a while. I went to school for architecture, so I have kind of a background in design. And then I moved to the mountains. I got really into skiing, and I kind of, like, you know, changed my whole career into, like, this filmmaking thing at the time. And, Yeah. I, just ended up making films in the outdoor space for a while. And, throughout that, like, I didn't really have a typical job. It was it was a lot of freelance work, you know, a lot of creative kind of gig economy type stuff. And, and so I didn't have access to, you know, like, a 401 k or, you know, and any of these, like, retirement accounts that, you know, you get from, more traditional jobs. I had to pay for my own health health insurance and and stuff like that. And so that's kind of, like, as I started my business started to, like, gain a little bit of momentum in the film world. I I started to think about, like, well, how, you know, like, how am I gonna retire eventually? Not that, you know, if that's anywhere close for me right now. But but eventually, like, you gotta think about it. And, and so in doing that research, I kinda stumbled across, Bitcoin. I had been exposed to it by a few people, that I that I knew throughout, you know, college and and whatnot. And, but I dismissed it for a while and, but it and it took me a while to, you know, to dive deeper down the rabbit hole and really kinda discover, the, you know, the problems in with fiat money and and with our current monetary system.
And that's really what energized me eventually. It was, kinda discovering that, that Bitcoin could, was this new system that operated outside of this, you know, fiat monetary system. That was really, you know, kinda bad and insidious in it in, you know, in many ways. And so, yeah, I started learning about it, listening to podcasts, reading books, and yeah. And articles, I think, Swan was a a good resource for me at the time. When I was getting into the the Bitcoin only space, they had many articles that Tomer himself had had written, and so I was scrolling through their, you know, their canon. I think think it's I think it's called the canon, swan cannons or whatever. Anyway, there are a bunch of rabbit hole things that, they've, like, you know, organized and curated.
And so Tomer's articles were were all, in those those canon rabbit holes and, and they really spoke to me. And, eventually, I got to the point where I was like, you know, I I am, like, very, very highly confident about this technology, and and I really wanna help, people understand it differently because I was seeing, you know, some gross misunderstandings, not only in my friend group, but just generally, through through age groups too. Young people, people like there there was a lot of people misunderstanding, what bit Bitcoin was and, is and and what it stands for.
And so I started making little films and I started, BitIntelligence, which was a YouTube channel, is is my YouTube channel really. And, and so I, you know, I'm I'm not a writer myself, and and Tomer's writing was really speaking to me, throughout this experience. And so I started, like, using his, articles to, help me create these films. And at the time, I was really getting into AI, you know, image generation and, and animations. And, and so yeah. I, like, started to use Homer's articles and then make these AI image generated kinda animations behind them, put a little bit of, you know, light music behind them. Just create my own flavor of, you know, Bitcoin content.
And and and and then I went to up Zip Bitcoin, and I approached Tomer and and told him to watch one of the videos. And then, yeah, it's kind of the rest of history. We started, you know, collaborating on on some of his articles, ended up kinda culminating in the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, which right now has, like, almost a 100 and 5th or 250,000 views on, Swan's channel, which is that is by far the most viewed video that I've ever put out. So that's, you know, a big accomplishment for me, big accomplishment for for Tomer, and, yeah. And and now I've been, you know, just working in the Bitcoin space. So it's been it's been really fun and, and it's been wonderful to get to know, you know, all these these people that I've gotten to know since.
[00:06:46] Unknown:
I know. It's quite a blessing. Right? And so, Bevin, I love this, and I love hearing that, you know, you were, you know, taking what your skill is and then combining it with someone else's. Right? Chocolate and peanut butter. And, obviously, Tomer's just a prolific, gorgeous writer. You're a wonderful filmmaker and storyteller. So so cool that you reach out to him. And you did the thing first, and then you showed it to him. It wasn't just like, hey, can I go do the thing? And so I think that's really neat. So, Tomer, I'd love for you to kinda let everybody know who you are, what you've been working on, obviously, generational wealth, why Bitcoin, the kids book. You're you're rocking and rolling over here. And then I wanna talk about you guys' collaboration, and then we're gonna also talk about, you know, inspiring other people to, you know, get excited about their own collaborations in the space. So thanks, Bevin, and welcome, Tomer.
[00:07:32] Unknown:
I have to unmute my mic. Yeah. Where to begin? For me, I've I've been interested, like and interested is an understatement. I've been obsessed with Bitcoin since I first heard about it back in 2013. I didn't really know how to contribute in a significant way to the community for a long time. I mean, I I spent my first few years in Bitcoin just studying it, and trying to form an opinion on it versus altcoins and it is a solution and all this kind of stuff. So I spent countless hours studying it before I really produced anything. I became a little bit more involved at in 2017 at the time of the, block size wars or the fork wars, whatever you wanna call them. I I I started writing pseudonymously on the Bitcoin subreddit at that point in time making the case for Segwit versus, the hard fork versions that were being promoted of Bitcoin.
And, and then around 2020 when COVID hit and the whole world got all kinds of crazy was the time for me when I said, you know, I I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life, but it's gonna be dedicated to Bitcoin. And I just I decided to go all in on on my time and energy on Bitcoin, and and I figured at that point in time that maybe I could provide a unique voice in terms of Bitcoin education. There was there was Twitter, which was like 280 character things, and there were lots of people putting out really long essays, and there were plenty of, podcasts. But I thought maybe I could write some concise articles. It would all be, like, in the 2 minute range to read. So not asking too much, but being able to provide a lot more than what you can put in a tweet. And so I started writing a series that I called Why Bitcoin?
They were all, like, 2 minutes long of a read, had the words why and Bitcoin in the title. And, and I set myself this goal that they would teach newcomers something, but that they would also be impressive and illuminating to establish Bitcoiners. So it was a bit of a challenging assignment, like, for to simultaneously educate, newbies and impress, old timers, gave me a a great focus because I was I think I was able to provide a unique telling of many aspects of, of Bitcoin. And as I was doing that, I was starting to get recognition in the community, and prominent Bitcoiners were sharing my articles on Twitter. And that led me towards, an introduction to Swan, which was, at the time, just, like, 15 to 20 employees.
And, and we put together the collection of articles into an ebook, and then eventually, I collaborated with an artist, Chief Monkey and a designer.
[00:10:19] Unknown:
Well, show us the book, Tom or pull it up.
[00:10:22] Unknown:
Yeah. So one of the things that I I'm gonna show it in a second. I really felt, a connection to the artistic and aesthetic side of Bitcoin by the time I'd finished writing this series. And so I and I tried to make my writing as beautiful as I could, not just factual, but also beautiful, and concise. And so I wanted to work I I made a pledge to myself that everything I do for Bitcoiners will be beautiful. And, so I worked with the artist, Chief Monkey, to create Chief Monkey. Why why Bitcoin? And he act this is actually a physical work of art that he sold at auction, at bit at the Bitcoin conference in 2022.
Yep. And it's got, Satoshi in the middle contemplating. The book is 27 essays, but this work of art has 21, images of Satoshi meditating, each on a different
[00:11:13] Unknown:
on a different idea that each each relate to 1 or more essays. And it and it's such a great work of art too. It's a physical work of art, this laser cut and obviously very, very meticulously crafted. It's gorgeous. And so
[00:11:25] Unknown:
I I And the book itself is a coffee table book. It's Yep. Every every article just fits on a one double page spread. There's one article that's 2, that's 2 double page spreads, but they're all, they're all laid out beautifully, and and they're all short. And I get a lot of feedback that this is, for many people, their favourite book to orange pill. Other people, they keep it on their coffee table or somewhere at home, and they can intro they can give someone, the book, and they only need to read 2 minutes of it to get the taste and flavour of a single article, or they can skip to a particular essay that addresses something like why are why are all the altcoins scams, or why does Bitcoin have to use energy, or why so these these are all articles that have, like, why? Why does Bitcoin even exist? Why is it so complicated? It answer this book answers all those questions.
So that was kind of my beginning of collaborating in the artistic space with other artists in Bitcoin to make things, that are beautiful for, Bitcoiners. And if we just keep going, I I found myself writing about art in Bitcoin, and that, that led to someone reaching out to me saying that that they wanted me to write an article about Bitcoin as generational wealth. Eventually, I got around to writing that article. And when I read it out loud for the first time, I thought, wow, this is, this sounds more like the narrative of a film than an art than an essay. And so I I found a director to work with and an editor to work with who turned that essay into a book into into a movie. Sorry. We never we never really published the essay except for in one very small private publication.
And Bitcoin is generational wealth. I wish we had the link to that, but for people well, I guess we can get it up somehow quickly. Yep. I'll get it. Okay. Great. And I I I think that movie has been viewed well over 300,000 times, but I'm not a 100% sure. I know there's multiple versions of it in various translations, but the YouTube version's been viewed a lot. And that that came out in November of 2021, and it was, yeah, it was a movie that moved a lot of people. It was a moving, movie about Bitcoin. I know a lot of people told me it brought tears to their eyes, and it was the it it concretized the vision of a future that many Bitcoiners have. And so, that was a really proud moment for me. I was really excited to do it. And, and I started writing more long form essays, and I ended up writing one called The Legendary Treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto. And I loved it, and I and I refused to publish it when I first wrote it for a full 6 months because I thought, oh, this idea of making movies is tremendous. I'll just make a movie out of this one. The universe will help me out. But it was just as we were going into a bear market, and I didn't have the right connections. And and so I ended up eventually publishing it as an essay about 6 months after I wrote it. I think I published it in September. I'd written it in March, and it went it went viral. It was the most read essay I'd ever written. Lots of people again told me that they cried, when they read it, tears of hope and joy and all all sorts of really wonderful things. And so I kept looking around for the opportunity to make a movie out of it. And then as as Bevin's story goes, he and I met in Pacific Bitcoin. He told he told me what he was doing. I got very excited about it.
And, eventually, you know, we said, oh, one big project because many of my essays were, like, 10 or 12 15 minutes to to read, and he was using AI to generate things. And I was like, well, I I'd be happy to read them so that you have a human voice, reading them especially if we move on to legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto. And, it was a big project. I I don't know exactly how long it took Bevan, but he created graphics for every sentence, basically, of of the movie and animated them all using the AI tools. And, it came out really, really amazing. It's like a 38 minute film.
So I think for for to have that many views for a 38 minute film, that's really about the philosophy of Bitcoin, not why the number's gonna go up or this or that, but why Bitcoin is a spiritual awakening that moves so many people and what the meaning of Satoshi's actions were from a spiritual philosophical perspective, is something that makes me really, really happy. So that's that that's, I think, the story of me leading up to my my life's paths intersecting with, with Bevan's and us, getting this number of collab like, I know Bevan's probably made 8, 9, 10 of my other essays into movies, and I'm they're terrific, and they're all on the Bit Intelligence, site. So it's a nice way to consume the essays without having to sit down and read.
[00:16:11] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that's the magic too, guys, because it's like we think about, you know, the 5 different learning styles. Right? And some people wanna hear things, some people wanna see things, some people wanna touch things, some people wanna feel things, you know, all the stuff. And so, the fact that you guys can combine those, obviously, with the visual and the words and whatnot, we think about the 5 love language and stuff. So so I think it's so important for any of us creatives to go, like, out there and use our little zone of genius, you know, and start putting, you know, our our work out there in the lens that feels the most, enlivened by our souls. Like, obviously, Tomory, you're such a great prolific wordsmith, you know, and and Bevan, like, you know what to do with visuals and sounds and how to make things transition from one place to another, and it's like, oh, woah. What's gonna happen here? You know? And so the fact that you 2 can do this, you know, again, chocolate and peanut butter combo plan is pretty pretty cool. What's it like, Bevin, you know, for, you know, when you take something of Tomer's. Okay? So let's say you take Tomer's, you know, written word, how what's your process like? How do you decide, like, you know, do you storyboard stuff? Do you, you know, just kind of put, like, a big collage of different things? Like, I'd just be curious, like, how do you come up with the visual storytelling to go along with his words?
[00:17:32] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's sort of like, taking it, not word word by word, but, like, sentence by sentence. You know, I'll read the the article and then, oftentimes, I'll, like, put on some classical music or or something. I I like, you know, listening to, like, classical piano. I used to play piano when I was younger and Mhmm. Although I'm not you know, I don't really play piano anymore. I just something about that type of music, like, speaks to me. And so I'll put on some music and I'll read the the article and kinda just, like, get the, you know, get the vibe, like, feel the emotion kinda. And then, yeah, and then I go into Midjourney and I just start, typing in prompts.
I I kinda, like, go between Midjourney and and Chat GPT, because Chat GPT can help you create better Midjourney prompts, without spending all your time, you know, trying to think about how to create your prompt. So I'll, like, you know, type some things in, you know, so we're talking I'm I'm thinking about the,
[00:18:26] Unknown:
I can't remember the exact name, but it's like the greatest heist in in history. It was, the Yeah. I have I have an essay called why Bitcoin will end the greatest heist in history in the why Bitcoin book. That's the long that's the one that's, like, an 8 minute read.
[00:18:39] Unknown:
Yeah. Well yeah. So I'm thinking about that one and, like, yeah. While I was reading through that, I would just, like, type in different sentences, into midjourney and start, you know, generating prompts. And it's really like a a subtractive, I guess, process. It's like, when you're creating all these images. Right? Not all of them are gonna make them into the film. And the same as if you're filming it, you know, with a camera. You're filming all this stuff and not everything is gonna actually make it into the film. You just kinda have to go through it all eventually and then take what speaks, you know, to the story the best.
And, and so to do that, yeah, it's just it's just generating generating and generating. And then and then finding what, you know, matches the emotion, matches, you know, the content of the writing, and the style and and whatnot. I it was really helpful, I think, Tomer, when you started to narrate these yourself, like, especially with the legendary treasure. You know, the AI voices are not are still not not that great, but with, like, pauses and, you know, and and and, yeah, pronunciation
[00:19:48] Unknown:
and stuff like that. Yeah. Knowing where to put the emphasis.
[00:19:52] Unknown:
So it sounds like so what I'm hearing you say, Devin, is, like, you've got you know, you're taking kind of this template of of, you know, let's say, Tomer's work, for example. I know you've done a lot of other things as well. And but then you're sort of, like, putting some things in and letting the intuition guide you of, like, yes. That feels right. Less, that feels right. That feels right. And instead of just, like, do you you don't have, like, this predetermined, it has to look this way or go this way. It seems like you're more in, you know, a a a flow state with the the creative process?
[00:20:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I very much, let it evolve while while it happens. I I think, like, you know, planning and and preparation in creative adventures are, you know, it's very important. But at the same time, you also just have to, like, let things come up along the way. And, you know, if they do come up, you gotta follow that that path of thinking and that path of creativity and and see where it leads and not always, you know, that that path won't always lead to the best result, but sometimes you just have to follow it to figure out that that's not the best result and then, you know, follow another path. But, yeah, like like I said, it's very subtractive process. Like, you gotta generate or film a whole ton of stuff and then kinda just pick and choose and and cut things down, until, you know, it it seems like it plays well and it, you know, the visuals add to the music and to the writing and, it's really like a trifecta, you know, approach. Like, there's, you know, the the article and then there's the visuals and then there's the music. And, altogether, those three things, can produce, like, emotion for the world. I mean, each one of those things can produce emotion, but together,
[00:21:27] Unknown:
they can really, you know, have a powerful effect to the I I was just sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. I was looking at because I forgot the name of the book, but Rick Rubin, have you guys read the book, The Creative Act? Oh, it's so good. Do you know who Rick Rubin is? Like, he helped produce the Beastie Boys. He's one of the most prolific music producers Oh, wow. Cool. On Earth. And he's he's this, like, you know, Zen dude with the long beard and looks like Santa Claus, kind of, but he's just like he's produced some of the most prolific acts on Earth and, you know, really went through his creative process. And the book is called The Creative Act. I highly recommend it. I listen to books on audio, but, you know, there's all the chopped up stuff on YouTube. But he talks about, you know, the first, iteration of a creative process is just, like, get all the ideas. Like, just pull them all together. You know? Like, there's nothing that's not on the table. Right? And just get excited.
Let it be there, and then let that that magic, that divinity, that source, that, you know, inspiration, that that intuition kinda guide you to be like, oh, right. This can go here with that, and this can go over here. Oh, woah. What's over here? You know? And so not getting hung up on thinking that it has to be this rigid, experience. And so because of that, you know, he's been, you know, like, multibillion dollars worth of record sales and whatnot. And he's funny because he's very much like, I don't know how to read or write music. He's like, I have good taste. He's like, I know what feels right. I know what the audiences want. And I feel similar to that in my DJ. I'm not a billionaire dollar producer like him, but, like, you it's the vibe. Right? And so it's like when your taste and your vibe can, like, resonate with your audience, and then when it comes through you authentically, you know, and you give yourself permission to kinda play and mix and match, I think that's where the magic can happen. And so I I love hearing that that's that's part of your process naturally already. But I highly recommend The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. Like, what it's such a great, great, great book.
Tomer, what about you? Like, what's your do you have you know, when you did, Why Bitcoin, did you have, like did you just kinda throw it all out there and then start organizing and segmenting things? Or how how what was your process with that? It was a layered process. I get at first, I was I was writing about Bitcoin, and I had this
[00:23:50] Unknown:
gimmicky idea to do short educational of it interesting to all comers and with the words wine Bitcoin in the title. And and that that came to me over the course of a couple of months, I think, is how it it took me a while to get it going. I found my flow state with it, and then it was like I was waking up in the morning with essays that came to me in my sleep. I was really really resonating, really tuned into a particular vein of the message of Bitcoin at the time. And and I'm I'm really happy with how a lot of the stuff that I've written has held up over time. You know, Bitcoin changes so much, and so, you know, so many things happen. But at the very hard and core of Bitcoin, it is inalienable, and I think that that's what I was really tuned into when I was writing those pieces. But they came to me in the in in whatever order they came to me in, and that was the order I was writing them because I was treating it as a blog. And when it came time to laying it out as a book, I actually spent dozens of hours probably finding the perfect order and retitling them and making minor edits to them so that they were so that their flow was linear because a book is a linear process.
And, I mean, a blog is too, but it it it was what it was. So the the book is really, really tightly edited, tightly organized, highly organized, and, and and and logically order ordered. And that took a long time. I was I was shocked. You know, when I Chief Monkey is the guy who put me up to making the book. He said, look. I made a book, out of, the Bitcoin Baba Kakar, which I have here somewhere, but I'm not gonna step away to get it, which was a work of art that he said, you've already written the book. It should be easy. And I naively assumed it would be, so embarked on trying to make a book out of it. And it it ended up being, you know, hours of editing every day for
[00:25:40] Unknown:
60 to 90 days. I I Tomer, I know. I remember when we first I don't know if it was our first interview or at some point you were telling me that you thought like, yeah. No problem. Cool. Chaffee's gonna help me, and it's gonna be great. And we're just gonna do a couple layouts here. No problem. We'll put some words and a couple pictures. It'll be fine. And then you were just, like, it was so painstaking to do that. Yeah. I think it was Because you did create a work of art, you know, and I think that's what's really neat about you, and that's obviously why I love you and admire you as a fellow creative. And, you know, I remember when we first met, I was like, you gotta check out Ram Dass's book, you know, the Be Here Now book because it reminded me of why Bitcoin and how it was so, I mean, it was it's a work of art. You know? It's not just some book that you just, you know, oh, cool. I'm gonna read about Bitcoin. No. You made something very, very special for people, you know, to have and to give copies to others. You know? So I think, you know, your the effort and the proof of work that you guys did on it, it it really shows. And and so thank you for making that for us. Yeah. No. Thank you. It was a yeah. I don't wanna say it was a painful experience. It was just it was a very big experience. It it
[00:26:50] Unknown:
when I say that though, I reflect on it did discourage me from publishing other books.
[00:26:56] Unknown:
It's it's
[00:26:58] Unknown:
so it's so much work to get a book done, to get a book done right to, like, it Totally. And especially when you're making it artistic with with illustrations or photographs or something, it's one thing to publish text and let it flow. There is a text only version of why Bitcoin available on Amazon in trade size. But if you really wanna experience the fullness of the book pictures. You need the color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can get the coffee table version as a free PDF if you want. That's at swan.com/whybitcoin. So if you wanna sample if you wanna experience the content, before turning it into a physical concrete book, for yourself, you can absolutely just get it at at that address, swan.com/why bitcoin.
[00:27:39] Unknown:
And, well, then also with Bevin, with you too, because, obviously, I mean, I know how long it takes just to edit a JPEG for gosh sakes. And then, you know, going and doing movies and doing things where you've got to, like, get the frame and, oh, get this person's face over here or anything that you're doing. It's like the micro details that you guys do for your work is people don't understand what goes on in the background unless you're an artist, unless you're actually in the, you know, in the field kind of doing these things. And so, you know, they think like, oh, look, you made a a 12 minute video or an 18 minute video or a 40 page book, and it's like, oh, no. This took, like, hundreds of hours to do this little tiny little snippet, you know. And for me, even as a DJ, it's like and I never plan my sets, like, you know, I I but I practice, and I know my music, and I have, like, a monster collection. So, I mean, you know, a 1 hour DJ set could take me a 100 hours just to kind of play around and get new music and see what's gonna happen, and then I never know. And then people are like, oh, you're just playing music. I'm like, no. I'm not.
It's a little bit more than that. But, like, can you help people understand? Because somebody just put in the comment, and I'm not gonna put it up, Bevin. But there was a little bit of a, like, oh, what do you mean you're using AI for your art? And I'm like, AI is the coolest thing ever. But that's amazing. You know? So can you talk a little bit about the AI integration into your workflow? And I know, you know, Tomer, you do natural writing, but I think AI has a place to a certain degree for us writers, but it also isn't like you don't want your writing to be AI writing, but it can be a tool to assist. So, Bevin, I'll have you go first with, like, how AI has been helping you as an artist.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, goes back to what you just said. It's, like, really just a tool to assist, you know, and a tool to allow you to do things that you couldn't have done before. So, like, for example, my whole, YouTube channel, like, Bit Intelligence, my first video on that channel, like, I'd never done content like that before. And, like, sure, I'd go back and look at it. It's, like, a little cringey. But, but it was, like, it was a way for me to explore making content that I had never made before. And and only because of these AI tools existing. And, like, sure, I was, like, kinda interested in learning them too. So it was, like, it was almost like an outlet for for me to, like, learn how to kinda use these tools because there's this AI buzz.
But at the same time, the tools are really, really rudimentary. They still are, I think, kinda rudimentary. I think in the next 10 years, we're gonna see some really incredible stuff come out. Yeah. But, like, if you think about it like that, like, as, like, a calculator or, like, you know, just something to augment your own experience and creativity, especially with writing too, for example, like, I I think, like, chat g p t or any of these other large language models can be used to, like, stimulate ideas. They don't have to, you know, be the the one prompt. Here's my essay type, you know, situation, but you can, like, have a conversation with it. Hey. I'm thinking about this. I, like, I feel like I'm not you know, I wanna put this and this together.
Like, help me come up with a plan of, like, how to do this. That's how I use it a lot, especially with research as well. It's just like a a tool to, like, kinda formulate a plan to then execute, with your own, you know, brain cells. But then, like, again, with the, the images and whatnot, like, I just wouldn't be able to make art like Midjourney makes art. You know? A lot of lot of digital, creators, you know, they they have you know, they can make a certain type of art, but then Midjourney just makes a different type of art. And so if you think about, like and I'm I'm not necessarily, like, a digital artist like that, but, you know, if you think of, someone that is coming with a lot of, like, illustrator or Photoshop experience, merging those skills with, like, image generation and Big Journey, just, like, automatically, you just have so much more capability between that collaboration between, you know, man and machine or, you know, woman and machine, that it it can really augment your ability to create things. So, that's my perspective.
Of course, like, some of it is, like, you know, you're just generating and and curating, for me, specifically, with, like, the the videos. But at the same time, it goes back to, like, the trifecta of visuals and audio and, and music Yeah. Altogether coming kinda coming together.
[00:32:09] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's such an inspirational tool too. Like you said, like, the stuff that it will spit out based on what your prompts are, you're just like, oh, woah. My brain wouldn't have conceptualized that way of looking at that image, you know, or those sets of images. And so, you know, I think from that lens, it's really important to be open minded, obviously, as creatives to, like, really? You gave me a whole another set of crayons with all these colors? Heck, yeah. Let's play. You know? Instead of, well, these are the only colors in the rainbow, so you're only supposed to play with these. No. And and I I think it's like anybody who's a creative on Earth, if there are new tools to help you extract new ways of looking at things, whether it's verbally or visually or auditorially, you know, it's very, like, let's go play. Like, cool. There's more toys. You know? And so it can be just an inspirational tool. It can also be an organizational tool. And I know with, like, you ChatCPT or Perplexity or any of that stuff with Claude, you know, if I put something in and I'm like, make me a sales page. I need, like, a Frank Kern sales page for something, and it'll spit out the order of stuff. And then I put the content in, and it just makes my life a little bit more organized instead of having to go try to find a template for that, you know? And so so I think there's, you know, the inspirational side, and there's also the organizational side too, which is cool. But you don't use it as your only tool, you know?
For me, like, when I'm taking breaks, if I'm doing, you know, some deep work or if I'm getting grumpy on on on on Twitter because of what's going on on the planet. Tomer caught me the other day. He's like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm having a moment, dude. Like, they haven't freed Ross yet. What's going on? But but I'll go hit Midjourney because I just wanna see the colors. And for some reason, looking at those colors that it spits out into my face, obviously, you guys see I'm a colorful girl, it it soothes my little soul. So it's it's therapeutic in some ways as well. So, Tomer, what about you? You I saw you have something in your hand. You're it looks like you're gonna pull up. I so,
[00:34:07] Unknown:
like, for me, I I'm I'm tempted to use the expression the jury's still out on how but not, like, whether AI is good or not, but how exactly to use AI in beneficial ways and not in detrimental ways, especially as a writer. And I'll I'll get into it. I this thing that I grabbed, in, I think it was in late 2022, I was I was isolated at my cottage, which isn't mine, but, at a cottage that I have access to because I had COVID, and so I was staying with family. And Fractal and Crip, the artist who made this Yay, Fractal. Said, can I show you something? I've locked myself in a room for 21 days or 27 days with Midjourney, and this is when it was still really early. Like Right. I'm it might have been 2021, but, no, I'm pretty sure it was 2022 because of the COVID. That's when I had COVID. And he had authored a a graphic novel called the time chain codex, which was based off of a a series of, like, what, you know, what happens when we become multiplanetary and Bitcoin mining has time delay at light speed and all this kind of stuff.
This is this is my sealed version. I can go and grab another version, another copy if you wanna take a look at it. But he he actually went to the trouble of create using AI to create a full graphic novel around this narrative, and and then he and I spent because the text AI was nothing to use at that time, he and I spent, about that whole week while I was in isolation editing this novel, making sure that this the physics made sense and that the story made sense and that the continuity was good. And so I was, that was another great collaboration experience for me. He's really the creator and author of that, but I'm the editor and, and it was a wonderful experience of getting exposed to AI.
When it comes to using AI for writing, I'm I'm a little bit more restrained about my enthusiasm for it. I think it is an amazing research tool. Like, as they feed more and more data into the AI tools, you can do the kind of research that used to take 30 minutes on Google in 10 seconds using AI. Like, give me all the statistics on something by country and this and that. And it's generally now producing accurate results, although you still have to spend you actually have to spend more time fact checking and verifying than you do have on the research, which is which is kind of interesting. But when it comes to thinking or creative expression using AI in writing, I'm still, I'm still not in I don't wanna say even I'm not impressed. I I'm like, I feel that it it doesn't produce a quality of writing that is captivating.
It produces an academic or a silly, a silly version. But it but it I you can almost always tell when it's AI that's writing it. And and I think that becomes a discouragement to the reader to read it as, like, they'll say they'll take what's what they see is written by AI and then tell AI ask an AI to summarize it. So we're kind of getting to this point where we're all gonna have all these agents talking to one another and we're gonna be leaving ourselves out of the picture. And, you know, that that's a very unpredictable situation to put ourselves into and and we're in it. It's I'm not even discouraging people. I'm just saying like, you're in a situation where if you have to write a letter to some bureaucrat or some official, you might use AI to write it, and they're gonna receive it, and they're gonna use AI to reduce it into something, and then they'll use AI to respond to you. So you're not really speaking to people anymore. You're speaking to AI, and AI is speaking to AI, and AI is speaking to people and back and forth. And it's it's creating this intermediate, disintermediation between people talking to each other directly that I'm
[00:37:54] Unknown:
that I'm bothered by personally. Right? Other people may not be bothered by So let's talk about that, Tomer, because, obviously, yesterday, we saw I I don't know if you guys saw, but president Trump had I think it was yesterday. My brain is, like, squishing this whole week, but he had, you know, Larry Ellison and Sam Altman and the other guy from SoftBank. Was there, I think. Yeah. They're talking about the $500,000,000,000 thing they're trying to go build, which, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's gonna be a CIA, AI thing, blah blah blah. You know, like, we are in this soup of technology that is this great tool, this great gift, this great opportunity for us to play with. Right? But it's also it could be Venus flytrap, you know, and, like, you're in it, you know, and that's obviously what we're worried about is Bitcoiners with CBDCs and digital surveillance, etcetera. And so how can we 2 things. How do we, you know, stay connected as humans with our words, with our art, with our messages, you know, with talking to each other. Like, as far as you guys know, I'm a real person talking to you, but it could be the Val AI that I made.
You don't know. Like, you really don't know. It
[00:38:59] Unknown:
is getting to that point where there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of stuff that I see on on video where I'm, like, squinting hard and saying, does that have, like, some some dead giveaway that it's AI or is it really a person? Like, what's going on here? You know, generally, the slow motion and the limited amount of movement. Okay. But the giveaway keeps changing, right? It used to be that people's eyes were distorted or that they had the wrong number of fingers and that's all been corrected. But it's less to me, it's less about detecting whether it's AI. And actually, you know, if you ask AI to think for you and this is the the part where I where I'm probably most able to be articulate about it. It's like, if you use it as a crutch and you keep using it as a crutch and you don't, like, you'd let it do the thinking for you, The danger is not only that you stop learning how to think, but that you think the ideas that were fed to you by AI are your ideas.
You know, because, like, you wrote it. You you generated the prompt that said, tell me, tell me what's going on. And and then and then you're being programmed by the AI, not the other way around. Yeah. And so I think when it comes I think when it comes to thinking, you have to think for yourself. And you you can use AI to gather data and facts that help you string together the ideas. But if you don't exercise your ability to think critically, to put together statements and deduce logical like, valid logical connections from them, you become very vulnerable. You become vulnerable to not being able to use your mind. And so I that's one of the things that I'm particularly concerned about. I don't have a fix for it, and I'm not saying that everything was perfect beforehand. Like, I I think we're we've dumbed ourselves down as a society because we have so many tools that facilitate that are crutches for thinking, right? Nobody remembers phone numbers anymore because what because you don't need to. Nobody is particularly good at doing math in their head anymore because we've got calculators that are built into everything. And so there's just this general erosion of mental sharpness that we're all struggling with, and I and I worry that AI is making it worse. So I don't and I don't know how to make it better, but that's that's my caution. I so, like, I still don't use AI to write stuff. I've tried a couple times to see if I was happy with it, and, yeah, you know, you can you can make a short term article out of a tweet. Yeah. But but I think, again, people aren't people are reading much less because, I guess, there's this phenomenon. Like, I remember when personal video recorders first came out, you know, and you could you could have it record every episode of Seinfeld for you and you're and, like, we did, and then we stopped watching it because it's like, oh, the machine watched it for us.
So we stopped watching TV altogether when TV became more on demand and accessible and less scarce in the sense of, oh, we you know, it's 9 o'clock on a Thursday. We gotta watch gotta get to the TV before the show starts and run to the washroom during the commercial breaks. Like, all of that changed, and we actually watched less long form entertainment afterwards. And I think the same thing's happening with long form writing. People are looking for shorter and shorter stuff because there's so many different things because the ability to produce stuff is so much easier. So we we you know, we're in chaos right now, and chaos always settles into some form of order before going into chaos again.
And we're just kind of in that chaotic transition that is very unpredictable. That's why it's called chaos.
[00:42:24] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. And I think, you know, Tomer, you may nailed it. I mean, obviously, Bevin, you deal with this as well with, you know, your your content. It's one thing to make a 1 hour, you know, a film. It's one thing to make a 1 minute video. And it's like, what's gonna get more, not just attention and eyeballs because that's not the goal. The goal is activation, inspiration, and transformation
[00:42:46] Unknown:
to me. You know, as somebody who's out there. Well, even even before it, it's like, you know, what what do I think? Right? Well, I my writing helps me do my thinking. Right? I don't sometimes I don't know what I think until I've sat down to write something. And so, and writing tests your thinking. Like, you may think you think something, but when you've written it down, you're like, that's stupid, or that's inconsistent. That's Yeah. What do I really think? Like, if this is true, then that must be false, then this conclusion I had must be false. So you have to rework your thinking. And that's work. Right? And there's, and if you don't exercise that muscle in your brain of thinking and challenging ideas and coming up with solutions to problems, then you're, you're becoming intel intellectually weaker in the process. And I think that's, so even before, like, what are the results on other people? It's like, what is the personal result of thinking and writing and and working and doing? That's what gives you purpose. That's what gives you your unique exploration and discovery of yourself and what ideas resonate with you. I think that's what's so important. So if you just tell me what I think, draw me a picture of this, draw me a picture of that, you're not you're not testing your limits, or, you know, and and when you're not testing your limits, you're not fulfilling your fullest potential. So that's why Yeah. You're not growing. You're not hitting that purpose. It's it's warning signs.
[00:44:10] Unknown:
Yeah. And and I and think that's unfortunate. I think a lot of the younger generation is defaulting to this, you know. And, obviously, I think, Tomer, you and I are pretty close in our generational time codex. And Bevin, you're a bit younger, but but the younger younger generation is having this default. Like, oh, I'll just push a button. It'll solve the problem. I'll push a button. It'll make the art. I'll push a button. It'll do the article. And so or I'll push a button, and I'll have a relationship with somebody. And so we're offloading the humanity of of, you know, this gift of existence as those people in these skin suits to the machines. And so we have to, I think, have more, opportunities to come together. And, obviously, this is neat that the 3 of us are talking, and you still think that I'm real, but maybe I'm the AI.
You know? But, like, this is really cool, but it's still digitally, you know? And so it's kinda like Hold your hand up again. I said, hello. No. I've got 7 fingers. I know. No. Here. Hold on. We got 7. I'm an AI. But, like, you know, coming together in these, you know, real world experiences makes really up you know, great opportunities to to create art and create connections and and to be human. But, like, Bevin, I wanna come back to you with, you know, what you know, you congratulations on your new position too at Jan 3 with with Samson and everybody. Like, this is amazing because the work that you were putting out there, obviously, Samson saw and I love Samson, and he's just like, hell yeah, dude. Come on. We want you to to come work with us. And so as a creative, obviously, you know, Tomer, you know, the the stuff that you guys got to do together was inspirational. You weren't, like, hired by xyz corporation to go pitch, you know, the latest, you know, hardware wallet or whatever. And so you guys did this because it was something that came through your soul, you know? And so there's obviously a difference when we're being creatives from that lens, and then there's a difference when you're a creative from a, I've got the marketing department to run, and I've gotta go get some content out for an event or a product launch or a thing. You know? But how do you, Bevin, pull that into this work of yours? Because you're obviously such a beautiful creator, you know, and then now you get to turn into, you know, a collaboration with the company and not just other creatives.
[00:46:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess, thinking about, like, the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, like, that was just a piece that Toma wrote that really, really spoke to me. Right? And and so, like, I felt it. Like, emotionally, I was like, I feel I already feel this. I didn't have words for it myself. But, like, reading Tomer's words, I was like, woah. Like, you nailed that. Like, that's exactly how I feel. And that's why it became, like, a viral piece was because I'm sure that many, many other people read that piece and we're just like, woah. Yeah. Like, that that is also how I feel. I didn't really know how to say that before. And so, going back to what you said like that, you know, it was just like something that I I felt like I really wanted to do. Tomer, had been looking, to do that as well, and so it was just this perfect kind of like, joining of of passions.
And I I feel like we're lucky as Bitcoiners. I think a lot of people here are in the space are are just feel very passionately about Bitcoin because they know, how, you know, the the positive impact that it can have for, all people in the world. And so that, like, really becomes that that, push that drives you, to, you know, to wanna produce good work whether, you know, that be in the creative fields or, you know, in technical fields, or or what whatever. You know? Like, considering me working for for Jan 3 right now and, you know, a lot of it is, like, it's it's a tech job. It's, it's more corporate than, you know, things that I've been used to for the last 7 years, decade almost.
But in the same way that, like, I I felt passionate about, you know, wanting to make a a great film with Tomer's writing. I I kinda feel the same way about working with them in that, like, I just really want the I want the world to adopt Bitcoin. Right? And I want it to happen fast, slow enough for people to, you know, to understand it, but but fast enough for it to make an impact, in my life and, maybe even, you know, in the the first half of my life, would be great. So anything that I can do to to help move that forward, I'm I'm very, interested in, you know, working on and helping and, particularly this job has already, taught me new skills and and will, in the future. You know, there's constantly things that I'm being asked to do where I was like, wow, never never done that before. I guess I'll I'll try to figure it out, you know.
And that's where, like, going back to, you know, what you were saying about, like, you really have to think for yourself, Telmer. I feel like that's, a lot of Bitcoiners, are, you know, get that. Right? Because, like, they in order to understand and, and research, you know, the amount that they have about Bitcoin, they've had to, like, kinda break the the status quo of thinking, you know, about finance and economics and money and, you know, all all sorts of things that Bitcoin touches. And so I think, like, going back to using, like, AI tools and whatnot, like, as long as you have a passion and you, like, want to do something where you're willing to do the thinking yourself, then that's where it can be, like, a good collaboration.
Something I was thinking about when when you were saying that as well is, like, you know, it it's interesting. Like, I wonder I really wonder how, education is gonna change because of this. You know? Yeah. Like, the Gen zers, the the Gen Alpha or alpha. Right? Is it Generation Alpha? It's, like, after I don't know what they're Everybody was.
[00:50:08] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:50:11] Unknown:
But, like, you know, the the kids that are, like, young, like, young high school. I mean, let's do that's a good example. Right? Like, we don't even know because we know we can look it up. So
[00:50:21] Unknown:
Right. Right. But, yeah, I I just wonder, like, how you know, if I was if I'm thinking about myself as a young high school student and I had a hard project that I didn't wanna, you know, that I I I wanted to, like, go play with my friends or whatever, I would totally get on Shaji. Do you just generate it? You know? Yeah. But then you're you've lost that, like, mental stimulation and the the work, the proof of work that you have to do, in order to learn that information. And so it it is. It's like a catch 22. You're like, you know, from if you come from a place of passion and a place of of, you know, thinking, and you use it to augment your thinking and and and, your organization and your ideas, then it can work really well. But if you're just replacing it with, you know, machine thinking, then, yeah, it actually becomes like a problem, a big problem, because we don't wanna raise a generation of people that don't think for themselves, you know, that doesn't Okay. Doesn't let that long to a good future.
[00:51:22] Unknown:
Totally.
[00:51:23] Unknown:
Go ahead, Tomer. Yeah. I was just gonna say there's a very long term trend. It was like a 100 year, may maybe even more, trend of abundance. You know, technologies that create abundance reduce the quality at the same time. And so you end up with a lot of you end up with a lot, but you end up with a lower quality. And and and the part that you end up with less than is all the all the frills, all the art artistry. You end up with reduced products that are just calories, right, rather than carefully delicious freshly prepared food. You end up with $5 t shirts on made on mass rather than hand stitched, hand created, unique works unique articles of clothing. And and so this is you know, and now that we're entering into the intellectual age of mass production, we're we're gonna end up with something like that, which is, like, an enormous supply of words and pictures, but not, you know, not with the care taken into taken care of to get there. So I I think this is this is a really interesting issue. We just have to watch it unfold, and we have to each take ownership of what experience we're gonna have. And everything I said could be wrong. I mean, this could be a pivoting point for humanity, for the better, without the downside. But I think we have to be really careful. And that's certainly what you hear from most of the people who are much more knowledgeable about AI than the 3 of us, right? It's like, we need to be careful. It's a big opportunity, but it could also be, quite harmful.
[00:52:58] Unknown:
Well and I think either Tomer emailed it too just, like, it it's and I think we spoke about this a couple years ago at on on the the Swan panel. Just the more easily it is for people to, like, copy, paste, print, duplicate, whether it's words, music, art, it it becomes this, like, super soup. And you're kinda like, how do I filter out where the good stuff is where there's actually been not just this copy paste and cut and rip and remix kind of thing. But that's the mentality right now of, you know, the throwaway culture of this short term thinking culture. You know? And I think about, you know, we just I just had this big, long, I don't know, a few days ago thing with somebody from Ordinals and all this stuff. And they're like, oh, but it's real. I was like, no, dude. It's a JPEG. Okay. Stop. Like, this is not some, like, scarce thing. It's it's people can reproduce this and with this, you know, picture on my phone. But, like, the the the way that things have been so fast with how they get constructed, you know, and and the way that it's like, oh, here. Let's go build a building, and it's a big giant ugly square white box with some drywall, and then we're gonna put a nail up and put some art. Versus, like, here's a giant cathedral, you know, with, like, embedded art and the the ceilings and stuff that Michelangelo was doing. So it's like, where did we go from, you know, consciously thinking, like, that's the best thing we could do versus, like, now we're doing these little square things. And so I think it's a culture thing. And I and I think, like, you know, Bevin, what you were saying, kids are gonna be like, well, I gotta go get this assignment done, or I gotta go get this thing done for my boss or whatever, my client, and then I'm just gonna what's the path of least resistance and the shortest path? And if that means me putting a prompt in or whatever, copying and pasting and putting that out there, you know, you really how can we help the younger generation? And I guess I know, Bevin, you've got 7 minutes, for your next meeting. How can we help the younger generation of creatives and artists out there who are, you know, blessed with technology but also cursed with the the current programming of this short term thinking to, like, put some more time into your work, put more time into your process, put more time into your craft.
Yeah. It's it's an interesting I I do have a whole another hour, actually. So so I just I could just Good. Is that so, yeah, Tom, I don't I don't you know, I could talk for 17,000 hours, but I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go in about 15 minutes. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Okay. Great. Okay. So, Bevin, I'll let you go first on that one.
[00:55:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. To to that question, it's like I I don't know. I kinda think of, like, what you were just saying about, like, you know, a a lot of Bitcoiners say, like, we need to return to sound money because, like, we need to extend our, our time preference. Right? We need to look be looking farther advanced in the future and and planning for that, You know? And that Bitcoin helps you do that because it, you know, grows in value over time. And so you have now you have this way to, you know, plan your life over over the long term, thinking far out in advance and not just, like, you know, my next paycheck is coming in and I gotta get rid of this paper money because, like, it's gonna be worthless in, like, 15 years. So I I think Bitcoin helps with that. Like, I wonder if there's, like, this dichotomy between, like, you know, having a a a longer time preference or, sorry, is lower time preference is the right, term for that. And and then AI having us look more short term at our, like, day to day tasks.
In my opinion, like, we do we we got we we should look towards creating projects, for civilization and humanity, similar to the way that cathedrals were looked at, you know, in, in the renaissance and in, you know, back back in those days in, like, the 1300 or whatever. Because, like, those projects took 100 of years to create, and so it was, like, multiple generations of people that were putting their life's work into this one product, not knowing what could happen. You know? Like, during the building of that product, it could fall down. Plenty of, you know, churches fell down because they built them too tall. And they didn't they didn't figure out, like, the physics behind, you know, flying buttresses and, you know, buckling walls and stuff.
And so it's like yeah. I don't know. I think Bitcoin helps people think about longer term things like that. And it might be the ballast that allows, you know, humans to, take advantage of AI, with also having, you know, a lower time preference. I don't know if I'm explaining that that great. But but I I hope that there's, you know, some future like that where, you know, where we can get out of, you know, the, the short term thinking that, you know, the Fiat has kind of bestowed upon society.
[00:57:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that the, you know, a lot of our our youth don't know what hammer and nail are. They don't know how to change a light bulb. They don't know how you know, I literally saw something the other day that was like, there's a study done with young people who don't know how to I'm like, how do you know how to change a light bulb? I mean, the tactile nature of building things, you know, has been diminished because of the magic of the digital world. You know? And I feel like, how can we have some fun and get people more excited about building, you know, like, I love Gaudi and Park Guell and, you know, the the masterpieces that have been built for public art. And, you know, obviously, Fractal is working on something. You know, a bunch of us are thinking, you know, I have a Peace Park project idea. It's like, the more that we can get people out of the screen life into touching things in the world in a place of awe and wonder and collaboration and knowing, like, wow. This is what people can do together. It's like our hearts and minds, I think, can come together in a different way as well. You know? And and it is that low time preference that, you know, Bitcoiners share. And, obviously, hopefully, the younger generation will start to get that and and understand, like, why is it important to have that painstaking experience of editing those 2 pages and making sure that the text is here and the picture's here or the, you know, the light's gonna shine through this way when it's, you know, January 21st versus June 21st kind of thing from a light. It's like getting people back into the natural world and, you know, marrying it with the magic of the digital world, I think, is gonna be a fun journey to see what happens here in the next, you know, couple decades, you know, with our younger generation. You know, I've got teenagers and, you know, and so, yeah. So we'll see how that goes. What, I wanna shut up now. What what do you guys have? I know you've only got a few more minutes. What do you have what's the last couple comments you guys wanna make to the general wonderful artistic Bitcoiners out there and people who wanna learn about Bitcoin? Like, what would you what pieces of advice would you each give them to, get started on their Bitcoin artistic journey and certainly a collaborative journey with perhaps some other Bitcoiners?
[01:00:09] Unknown:
I mean, for me, it's it's put yourself out there for, like, for yourself first. Right? Like, no. The the goal isn't to impress other people. It's to see what you're capable of. And so do and and don't second guess yourself. Don't worry about imposter syndrome. Go with the flow. Surrender. If you think you can write, I like, for me, I just remember making the decision that I was gonna write, and I was walking through the forest typing on my phone, and then I sat down afterwards to read, and I'm like, wow. I had no idea I could write so well. So it was kind of this right? It came through the do it comes through the doing, and the more you do, the better you get. So don't give up. If it like, if at first you don't succeed, try try again because you're actually gonna get better. You're gonna learn from your mistakes, and get there. So become become what you want to be, 1st and foremost.
And then the this notion of collaboration that you will find the collaborators you need when you see what the limits of what your ability is and what you envision making that you don't have the ability to do. Right? Like, I I didn't have the ability to create the video or the music or everything for for the movies that I I was interested in making, but the universe handed me introductions, which it might have otherwise. And I would have let them go if I wasn't looking for a director, if I wasn't looking for an editor. But I had been looking for these things, and and lo and behold, they pass right before your very eyes, and they're looking for you. Right? Like, they're they're looking for content to apply their skills of filmmaking, music writing, you know, editing, too. So get yourself out there, start publishing whatever it is that you do as an artist, and and be active in in having other people see your work, which is your genuine work. It's not something that you created for visual, you know, for for engagement, but you created it because it's what you care about and what you love. And then the people you connect with won't be other people who are in it for the wrong reason. There'll be other people who are in it for the right reasons with whom your work meshes best, and that's the most satisfying and rewarding artistic type of project that there is.
[01:02:22] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's super it's such good advice, Tomer. And I know, you know, when I had met you and read the legendary Treasure, I was like, oh, wow. We gotta make Satoshi the cyber opera. And I started coming with this crazy psycho idea of doing, you know, Burning Man meets Cirque du Soleil meets Truman meets, you know or is that whatever that you know what I'm talking about. The but we started this project, and it was just like, what can we do that's different? This this mixed multimedia thing, and it was obviously in a bear market, but, like, we created this whole new version of it that was a little bit different. And now TJ, God bless him, he's in South Africa at adopting Bitcoin. And because he was part of that collaborative team, he's taken, you know, a fork of what we've, you know, all did together and is making something magical with it. And so it's just really neat to see, like, put yourself out there and reach out to people and, like, don't be afraid. Like, yes. Exactly. The bounty of Satoshi. And so I'm so excited for him, you know, because he took something that got you know, we all there's no such thing as new art, period. Everything is always like a a a copy, a rip off, an inspiration of some other artist, you know, a word, a picture, a color, a combination of it. So for any of us to go, like, that's mine. Don't take it. Like, it's retarded.
And so, oh, I said it. I love that word. I'll have to say it again.
[01:03:42] Unknown:
Sorry, Tomer. I'm just gonna gonna add add to that. Like, don't really don't don't be afraid to copy. You know, I I think I I can't remember. I don't know if it was Picasso or I don't know. Some some major artist was just like, I I don't remember the exact same, but it was it's like great artist copy. Right? The the Yeah. Great. Good artist copy. Great artist steal. Did it?
[01:04:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. It's it's good artist copy. Great artist steal. Yeah.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
So so copy and copy and steal all you want, especially, if it's for your own development and if you're reaching out to the the people that you want, you know, to collaborate with, and you're, you know, seeing work from them that speaks to you. Right? And that's exactly how Tomer and I got connected. I I quite literally actually, the first few videos that I made, of his, I I rewrote myself, which was definitely a mistake because it took me a really long time and then it was just like worse writing. But, like, at the time, I was just like, I was like, ah, I can't just, like, you know, copy this guy's writing. Like, I don't wanna, like, you know, I don't I don't want to be weird when I send it to him and and but then at the same time, like, I then I finally did do one where I just took it verbatim from the article.
And, you know, it it played really well, and it just, like, added, I think, some, you know, some power to to the article. And so, don't be afraid to copy, you know, if, if it doesn't work out or it doesn't work out, you know, but you've at least grown from that experience.
[01:05:12] Unknown:
Yeah. And isn't there a phrase where is it like, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission sometimes? And so to, like, what you did, Bevin, was, like, take something that inspired you, and then you added on it. You embellished it with the the visuals and the the video part. And so I think a lot of people are so they think like, well, what I need to go call this person or email them or write them, make sure I can have permission to play with their stuff. It's like, just take it and mess it around and then go see if it works. If it doesn't, great. Fine. You know? But, like, obviously, don't try to monetize it and steal anything financially from another artist. That's not in with integrity. But, you know, from a a creative lens, I think that's a really cool thing. Right? It's like you've got this infinite palette of all of these humans out there that have made so many things, and it's kinda like, hey. I took your thing and I made a shirt or I did whatever out of it. You know? And so Yeah. I I think that's something for all of us to to enjoy the palette of what's already out there and have some fun kind of remixing it. And, obviously, as a DJ, like, that's my job. I'm not like, oh, I'm making brand new music every time I come up here. I'm taking other people's gorgeous work and celebrating and elevating what they've done and remixing it and doing these fun new things. So it's like, that's what it's meant to do, I think, if it's real art. And so Exactly.
Yeah. So I think I think that's such great advice. So what do you guys think? I know I know I know Tom where you guys said you gotta wrap up a little bit. So I just wanted to you know, any final thoughts for the the the 589 listeners right now? One one last thing. I I I said before that I I was motivated to work on another book, but I did actually publish one more book. Oh, yeah, dude. Sorry. Oh oh, god. Okay. Hold on. I'm gonna let me celebrate you. Children's book? I wanna celebrate you, Tomer, because I forgot. Oh, my bad. Totally. I'm sorry. Tomer wrote this gorgeous book. He put it up showed up put it up on the the thing, Satoshi Nakamoto and his Bitcoin invention. So, Tomer, how cool is it? Right? He's writing this cool psychedelic book called Why Bitcoin? He's making all these, you know, generational wild videos, legendary treasure of Satoshi, and then he wrote a children's book. And guess what him and Scott from Shamari did? They donated tons and tons and tons of books to Toys for Tots so that, you know, during the holidays, the kids could learn about Bitcoin. But, Tomer, talk about that because that was obviously a different collaboration because the art was different, and it was more geared for Shamari's art. You know? I mean, the heart Let me put that. I gotta get a link out there. The are we
[01:07:38] Unknown:
when I did why Bitcoin, I I said, like, this was so much work, and it was just I I didn't feel like I had it in me to write another to put to put out another book. I had written this very short children's book, which which in a sense is like, taking the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, which is this deep philosophical spiritual essay and, and rewriting it in like 400 words, with accessible concepts for children. I wrote it all in one morning, but I was so discouraged from the effort of, and, and this of course needed art because it was a children's book. And then I tried to work with, I tried to collaborate with other artists, but I just wasn't getting the right flow, working, working for me, and they were ill, and then I was ill. And it was just it was really, really difficult, and I thought I would never get this book published. And then at the same, conference where, Bevan and I met, it was there was a VIP night, and one of one of the Swan sales representatives brought over a couple of his, clients. He'd heard this book, and he said, Toma, read read tell these people about the book you had. So I had the text on my eye on my phone, and I, I read it to them, and everybody was crying, like, with tears of you've gotta publish this book. And I said, but it's so hard to publish a book. So I said, just get together with Scott from Shamery, and he'll and he'll put it together for you. And so I said I I connected with him, and I said, absolutely. You know, if you can get if you can find the artist and you can publish it, you can, you can have all the rights to it and keep all the money from it. And so I'm thrilled after a couple years, after having written it, that the thing has seen the light of day. It's fully illustrated, and I and I I've seen it read to kids. I mean, I I did a bunch of test readings myself when, when I first wrote it, but then I've seen with this cop with this version of the book, people with kids as young as 2 years old, read it to them, people with kids 7, 8, and 9 years old, and the kids love it, and they ask to have it read over and over again to them. And it's a nice story, and it's for certainly for Bitcoiners.
It really aligns with the Bitcoin ethos and the Bitcoin inspiration and and message of hope. So this is available at the Shamari site. Satoshi Nakamoto and his Bitcoin invention. It's all about the creation of Bitcoin, and this it kinda tells the story of Satoshi to children,
[01:10:00] Unknown:
which is a really nice way to tell them. So that's I love it. Thanks, Tomer. And and I think Can't wait to check that out. Yeah. It's so cool. And I think, again, anyone who's listening out there who's a creative. Okay? Like, we're we're in this place where IP is very difficult to be. Like, it's mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. And I think that's what's really neat about Bitcoiners and creatives in general. It's kinda like, here, just take this creativity and go do something with it and get it out there. Because it's one thing to be in this walled garden mindset, which a lot of people are, and I think that's the unfortunate part. I'm I'm gonna call it out again about the the the ordinals and descriptions and the NFT people. It's like all it is is, like, support your local creator. You know? If you like Tomer's work, send him some sats. Like, you know, do it on Nostra, do it on whatever, buy the books. But, like, this idea of this, like, I can't let anyone touch my sample or my video or my art or my words, it's very, it's so restrictive in your creative flow and your process, and we've been conditioned by the old system to be in that tight, you know, you know, movie, studio or record studio or any of it. Like, don't let your art out there unless you've got a license. And so the generosity, unless you've got a license.
And so the generosity of the hearts and souls and spirits of Bitcoiners has created a whole new way, I think, for all of us to think as creatives, you know. And so we don't have to be, you know, mine, mine, mine. It's no. It's like ours, ours, ours. And I love that you did that, Tomer. I think it's really, really cool that you gave that to them. And, you know, obviously, they're on a mission to educate children in their own unique way, and I love Shamari. They're the best. And so, anyways, I just it speaks to the ethos of of Bitcoiners, and so thanks for doing that.
[01:11:47] Unknown:
It's an honor and a pleasure. Right? Just being able to like, you know, if if the me from 10 years ago looked at this stuff that I've been able to produce and said, you're gonna produce and someone said, you're gonna produce this over the next 5, 10 years, he would've, he would've been really delighted. And, and when I look back, I really am I feel privileged, I honoured, only called blessed, I guess, is the right word to have gotten the opportunity to bring the to be the vessel that brings these things into the world. And Yeah. And that's the satisfaction in creating art. I know. You know? There may be financial satisfaction that that some people are able to generate. That's not necessarily the case for me, but it's not it's not the reason I get involved in art. Totally.
[01:12:31] Unknown:
And and and same for you, Bevin. Like, the work that you've done, and I'm sure you've gotten some commissions to do different things and have been paid, but you can see from the way that your art has been, growing over time. It's like you this is something you wake up and you're excited about. This isn't just, I gotta go punch the clock and make some Bitcoin videos and do some storytelling about stuff. It's like just both of you. You get up and me too. Like, I'm just like, how do I get to be a part of this today and make the world a better place, you know, with my gift? So, so, yeah, the 2 of you guys are just bomb. Go ahead, Bevin. Yeah.
[01:13:08] Unknown:
It it's kinda funny, like, if I think about, like, my my career path, like, it it was very much fueled by, like, this fiat, like, like, hopelessness, I guess, of being, like, you know, what you know, I if if I'm never gonna, you know if I feel like I'm always, like, failing, I might as well do something I love, You know? Because then I'll at least have fun doing it. And and that's really like kinda why I chose like the film making path and like kinda went down that because I was already doing it, I was already doing it just for fun, on the side.
And and so I was like, man, if this if life is gonna be hard then I might as well do something I love. But then at on the flip side it's like then you under you start to understand Bitcoin and you're like, okay, well doing something you love is actually like, you know, you could help people in in certain ways. And, and it's not all about, you know, money. And there is a future, you know. If you save in Bitcoin slowly over time with little chunks, then, yeah, you don't have to have this, like, doom and gloom kinda perception of the future. You you can, you know, see that the future could be better than it is today.
Totally. And I think I do have one question for for Tomer. Sorry. Yeah. Go. Tomer, you you mentioned that you were, working on another article similar to, like, the stature of Bitcoin's generational wealth and legendary treasures to Nakamoto. Did I say that? I yeah. Last time we talked, it was months months ago.
[01:14:33] Unknown:
So so maybe maybe there's no progress there. It's gone. It's gone. I I I think I know which article you're talking about, and it's gone into a little bit of a slumber mode because it's you know, in the creative process, some of these things pivot, and, and then other priorities come and and they take they take the rest. Of course. There's like you know, in the unpublished, unfinished works of Tomer, Strathlete, Google Drive, There's a lot of different things over there. And when the time is right, I'm gonna return to a bunch of them and finish them off. It just, it hasn't been the right time, you know. Like, when you, when you're working on something that's as dear to your heart as, like, the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto was to me, You're just not ready to put it out until you've figured out until you've solved the problem that you're trying to answer with it. And I think I've got a number of different pieces out there that are unsolved. Right? They're still a work in progress for me, and I can't rely on AI to solve them. And I need time. I need more experience interacting with the world to see to see what I really feel so that I can publish it honestly and and as a complete work rather than as an an unfinished work. But, yeah, there's a there's quite a few out there, and I'm I'm not a 100% sure which one we were talk I was referring to when I spoke to you, but it's, there's nothing imminent.
I I regret to inform
[01:15:51] Unknown:
those who are waiting for something. That that's okay. But when when that, you know, time and place does come to you where you, feel like you, you know, you've had the right experiences to finish the piece, I would I would love to do another collaboration with you in the future.
[01:16:04] Unknown:
Isn't that the coolest thing, you guys? Like, whoever is listening, like, they're both just like, yeah. Let's work together. It's so fun. Like, I I love hearing that. And, you know, and and I I wanna say something super quick. Tomer, I know you gotta jump off, and so I wanna honor your time. But people who are artists who are listening, you know, we suffer from, you know, this old mindset, this old code that says we have to be starving artists, you know, and and it is a difficult thing when we're in the digital world where everything is reproducible, and then, you know, people can go copy your your words, your song, your videos. And it's like, how do you how do you support and sustain yourself as an artist? And so what I wanna just do a quick, quick, quick super shout out to Noster and Zapping and Value For Value. There are artists out there who, like Ainsley Costello. I got to go to Austin, like, last month for, a a value for value summit and, you know, talking about, how can we use Noster in a way to you know, not that you're gonna pay your mortgage and your rent and get your kids to school with all of this, but at least it will complement you more than just, you know, your point 0 0 0 2¢ on Spotify for every play. And so when you think in terms of a 1000 true fans, when you think in terms of community building with the people who love you and know your patrons who can't wait to get the next thing that you created because you keep speaking to their heart, minds, and souls with whatever the form of art is. Like, Nostra creates this really interesting way to have that one on one communication and feedback, and it's not just like, like, like. It's like you're putting your zaps, your money, your Bitcoin, your SATs where your heart and your patronage is. And so I want anybody who's listening to this to start considering, like, get yourself an Oster account. It's super easy. You can go to Primal. You can go to Demus. You can go to Amethyst. You can go to Nostril. There's all sorts of stuff, but, like, get an Austro account and start understanding how Bitcoin can start to help you as a creative, as an artist put yourself out there. There's a guy, I think it was Henry the Invisible Man, who performed at the Boostagram Ball with Adam and Adam Curry and, open, you know, Mike from OpenSats or open mic, from Tunster.
And now he's like this fucking legend over there on Noster because he keeps just making these, like, little one minute videos of him with his bass guitar and showing everybody how he's making stuff, and people are just zap, zap, zap, zapping him. And he's just like, where have I been? You know? So it's just like it's all of the art is is you know, wants to get in the hands and the hearts of other people. So use an Oster, and that's why Bitcoin is such an interesting tool. It's not working on any of these other platforms. So, so I just wanted to say that you don't have to be a starving artist to be an artist.
But, yeah, so what do we think, guys? Are we good? I wanna honor Tomer's time here.
[01:18:56] Unknown:
Yeah? Yeah. That was that's a great conversation.
[01:18:58] Unknown:
Thanks for having us. Yeah. Of course. I love you guys so much, and I I can't wait to see what the next collaboration is with the 2 of you. I know, Bevin, when I get done with Bitcoin for Peace, I would love I know you did a couple, like, the interviews in your videos, but I have a little bit more in-depth thing that I'm working on. It'd be great to collab with you on that too, so this will be fun. Yeah. For sure. But everybody, you guys, make sure you go follow Tomer, on x at Tomer Strollite, and then you can follow Bevin as well, bevin_wait, w a I t e. And everything's gonna be in the show notes. And for those of you listening, hey, guess what? Ross is free. I hope he's having the hamburger or something delicious this afternoon for lunch.
Yeah. Thanks again, Tomer. Thanks again, Bevin. You guys are the best, and thanks for, you know, teaching the the Bitcoiners out here how to be creatives and and collaborate. Thanks for having us, Belle. You're welcome. Alright, everybody. Peace, love, and warm aloha. God bless. Cheers. Bye bye. Cheers.
Aloha, love tribe. Happy thankful Thursday. We have a lot to be thankful for today. One thing I'm ultra thankful for is that Ross is free. That is one of the coolest things to be thankful for. And, you know, something in the the topic of this episode is gonna be the artistic collaborations for Bitcoiners. And my two guests today are wonderful creatives and artists and educators. And what is so cool about Bitcoin is it brings so many people together from so many different walks of life to make something magic happen. And so Ross got free, obviously, because of his mom and because of the entire Bitcoin community. And so what I really wanna emphasize today is the magic of collaboration, the magic of coming together, the magic of asking questions, raising your hand, not being afraid, and and standing up for something that you believe in and using your god given talents to make the world a better place. And so my 2 guests today are 2 men who I am so madly in love with and love their art, love their creativity, love their contribution to the Bitcoin space. They've had over 10 collaborations together, and I would imagine there's gonna be a whole bunch more. So welcome, Bevin Waite and Tomer Strollite. How's it going, guys? Woo hoo.
Woo hoo.
[00:01:47] Unknown:
Yay. Yeah. Happy to be here. Yeah.
[00:01:51] Unknown:
I know Bevan and I, we talked to, like, a couple months ago. I'm like, would you could you wanna do, like, a a thing with Tomer, and we'll come back? And he and he's like, yeah. And so it's been a little bit of a, you know, a delay, but everything is in in divine alignment with right timing. So why don't you guys introduce yourselves a little bit and, like, let everybody here know who you are? I know most people probably already know you, but if we've got some new listeners, I'd love for them to know, you know, more about each of your work. And so, Bevin, I'm gonna have you go first, and, welcome you guys, and happy Thursday.
[00:02:24] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. So my background, I I guess, how I got into into Bitcoin, I was a filmmaker for a while. I went to school for architecture, so I have kind of a background in design. And then I moved to the mountains. I got really into skiing, and I kind of, like, you know, changed my whole career into, like, this filmmaking thing at the time. And, Yeah. I, just ended up making films in the outdoor space for a while. And, throughout that, like, I didn't really have a typical job. It was it was a lot of freelance work, you know, a lot of creative kind of gig economy type stuff. And, and so I didn't have access to, you know, like, a 401 k or, you know, and any of these, like, retirement accounts that, you know, you get from, more traditional jobs. I had to pay for my own health health insurance and and stuff like that. And so that's kind of, like, as I started my business started to, like, gain a little bit of momentum in the film world. I I started to think about, like, well, how, you know, like, how am I gonna retire eventually? Not that, you know, if that's anywhere close for me right now. But but eventually, like, you gotta think about it. And, and so in doing that research, I kinda stumbled across, Bitcoin. I had been exposed to it by a few people, that I that I knew throughout, you know, college and and whatnot. And, but I dismissed it for a while and, but it and it took me a while to, you know, to dive deeper down the rabbit hole and really kinda discover, the, you know, the problems in with fiat money and and with our current monetary system.
And that's really what energized me eventually. It was, kinda discovering that, that Bitcoin could, was this new system that operated outside of this, you know, fiat monetary system. That was really, you know, kinda bad and insidious in it in, you know, in many ways. And so, yeah, I started learning about it, listening to podcasts, reading books, and yeah. And articles, I think, Swan was a a good resource for me at the time. When I was getting into the the Bitcoin only space, they had many articles that Tomer himself had had written, and so I was scrolling through their, you know, their canon. I think think it's I think it's called the canon, swan cannons or whatever. Anyway, there are a bunch of rabbit hole things that, they've, like, you know, organized and curated.
And so Tomer's articles were were all, in those those canon rabbit holes and, and they really spoke to me. And, eventually, I got to the point where I was like, you know, I I am, like, very, very highly confident about this technology, and and I really wanna help, people understand it differently because I was seeing, you know, some gross misunderstandings, not only in my friend group, but just generally, through through age groups too. Young people, people like there there was a lot of people misunderstanding, what bit Bitcoin was and, is and and what it stands for.
And so I started making little films and I started, BitIntelligence, which was a YouTube channel, is is my YouTube channel really. And, and so I, you know, I'm I'm not a writer myself, and and Tomer's writing was really speaking to me, throughout this experience. And so I started, like, using his, articles to, help me create these films. And at the time, I was really getting into AI, you know, image generation and, and animations. And, and so yeah. I, like, started to use Homer's articles and then make these AI image generated kinda animations behind them, put a little bit of, you know, light music behind them. Just create my own flavor of, you know, Bitcoin content.
And and and and then I went to up Zip Bitcoin, and I approached Tomer and and told him to watch one of the videos. And then, yeah, it's kind of the rest of history. We started, you know, collaborating on on some of his articles, ended up kinda culminating in the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, which right now has, like, almost a 100 and 5th or 250,000 views on, Swan's channel, which is that is by far the most viewed video that I've ever put out. So that's, you know, a big accomplishment for me, big accomplishment for for Tomer, and, yeah. And and now I've been, you know, just working in the Bitcoin space. So it's been it's been really fun and, and it's been wonderful to get to know, you know, all these these people that I've gotten to know since.
[00:06:46] Unknown:
I know. It's quite a blessing. Right? And so, Bevin, I love this, and I love hearing that, you know, you were, you know, taking what your skill is and then combining it with someone else's. Right? Chocolate and peanut butter. And, obviously, Tomer's just a prolific, gorgeous writer. You're a wonderful filmmaker and storyteller. So so cool that you reach out to him. And you did the thing first, and then you showed it to him. It wasn't just like, hey, can I go do the thing? And so I think that's really neat. So, Tomer, I'd love for you to kinda let everybody know who you are, what you've been working on, obviously, generational wealth, why Bitcoin, the kids book. You're you're rocking and rolling over here. And then I wanna talk about you guys' collaboration, and then we're gonna also talk about, you know, inspiring other people to, you know, get excited about their own collaborations in the space. So thanks, Bevin, and welcome, Tomer.
[00:07:32] Unknown:
I have to unmute my mic. Yeah. Where to begin? For me, I've I've been interested, like and interested is an understatement. I've been obsessed with Bitcoin since I first heard about it back in 2013. I didn't really know how to contribute in a significant way to the community for a long time. I mean, I I spent my first few years in Bitcoin just studying it, and trying to form an opinion on it versus altcoins and it is a solution and all this kind of stuff. So I spent countless hours studying it before I really produced anything. I became a little bit more involved at in 2017 at the time of the, block size wars or the fork wars, whatever you wanna call them. I I I started writing pseudonymously on the Bitcoin subreddit at that point in time making the case for Segwit versus, the hard fork versions that were being promoted of Bitcoin.
And, and then around 2020 when COVID hit and the whole world got all kinds of crazy was the time for me when I said, you know, I I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life, but it's gonna be dedicated to Bitcoin. And I just I decided to go all in on on my time and energy on Bitcoin, and and I figured at that point in time that maybe I could provide a unique voice in terms of Bitcoin education. There was there was Twitter, which was like 280 character things, and there were lots of people putting out really long essays, and there were plenty of, podcasts. But I thought maybe I could write some concise articles. It would all be, like, in the 2 minute range to read. So not asking too much, but being able to provide a lot more than what you can put in a tweet. And so I started writing a series that I called Why Bitcoin?
They were all, like, 2 minutes long of a read, had the words why and Bitcoin in the title. And, and I set myself this goal that they would teach newcomers something, but that they would also be impressive and illuminating to establish Bitcoiners. So it was a bit of a challenging assignment, like, for to simultaneously educate, newbies and impress, old timers, gave me a a great focus because I was I think I was able to provide a unique telling of many aspects of, of Bitcoin. And as I was doing that, I was starting to get recognition in the community, and prominent Bitcoiners were sharing my articles on Twitter. And that led me towards, an introduction to Swan, which was, at the time, just, like, 15 to 20 employees.
And, and we put together the collection of articles into an ebook, and then eventually, I collaborated with an artist, Chief Monkey and a designer.
[00:10:19] Unknown:
Well, show us the book, Tom or pull it up.
[00:10:22] Unknown:
Yeah. So one of the things that I I'm gonna show it in a second. I really felt, a connection to the artistic and aesthetic side of Bitcoin by the time I'd finished writing this series. And so I and I tried to make my writing as beautiful as I could, not just factual, but also beautiful, and concise. And so I wanted to work I I made a pledge to myself that everything I do for Bitcoiners will be beautiful. And, so I worked with the artist, Chief Monkey, to create Chief Monkey. Why why Bitcoin? And he act this is actually a physical work of art that he sold at auction, at bit at the Bitcoin conference in 2022.
Yep. And it's got, Satoshi in the middle contemplating. The book is 27 essays, but this work of art has 21, images of Satoshi meditating, each on a different
[00:11:13] Unknown:
on a different idea that each each relate to 1 or more essays. And it and it's such a great work of art too. It's a physical work of art, this laser cut and obviously very, very meticulously crafted. It's gorgeous. And so
[00:11:25] Unknown:
I I And the book itself is a coffee table book. It's Yep. Every every article just fits on a one double page spread. There's one article that's 2, that's 2 double page spreads, but they're all, they're all laid out beautifully, and and they're all short. And I get a lot of feedback that this is, for many people, their favourite book to orange pill. Other people, they keep it on their coffee table or somewhere at home, and they can intro they can give someone, the book, and they only need to read 2 minutes of it to get the taste and flavour of a single article, or they can skip to a particular essay that addresses something like why are why are all the altcoins scams, or why does Bitcoin have to use energy, or why so these these are all articles that have, like, why? Why does Bitcoin even exist? Why is it so complicated? It answer this book answers all those questions.
So that was kind of my beginning of collaborating in the artistic space with other artists in Bitcoin to make things, that are beautiful for, Bitcoiners. And if we just keep going, I I found myself writing about art in Bitcoin, and that, that led to someone reaching out to me saying that that they wanted me to write an article about Bitcoin as generational wealth. Eventually, I got around to writing that article. And when I read it out loud for the first time, I thought, wow, this is, this sounds more like the narrative of a film than an art than an essay. And so I I found a director to work with and an editor to work with who turned that essay into a book into into a movie. Sorry. We never we never really published the essay except for in one very small private publication.
And Bitcoin is generational wealth. I wish we had the link to that, but for people well, I guess we can get it up somehow quickly. Yep. I'll get it. Okay. Great. And I I I think that movie has been viewed well over 300,000 times, but I'm not a 100% sure. I know there's multiple versions of it in various translations, but the YouTube version's been viewed a lot. And that that came out in November of 2021, and it was, yeah, it was a movie that moved a lot of people. It was a moving, movie about Bitcoin. I know a lot of people told me it brought tears to their eyes, and it was the it it concretized the vision of a future that many Bitcoiners have. And so, that was a really proud moment for me. I was really excited to do it. And, and I started writing more long form essays, and I ended up writing one called The Legendary Treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto. And I loved it, and I and I refused to publish it when I first wrote it for a full 6 months because I thought, oh, this idea of making movies is tremendous. I'll just make a movie out of this one. The universe will help me out. But it was just as we were going into a bear market, and I didn't have the right connections. And and so I ended up eventually publishing it as an essay about 6 months after I wrote it. I think I published it in September. I'd written it in March, and it went it went viral. It was the most read essay I'd ever written. Lots of people again told me that they cried, when they read it, tears of hope and joy and all all sorts of really wonderful things. And so I kept looking around for the opportunity to make a movie out of it. And then as as Bevin's story goes, he and I met in Pacific Bitcoin. He told he told me what he was doing. I got very excited about it.
And, eventually, you know, we said, oh, one big project because many of my essays were, like, 10 or 12 15 minutes to to read, and he was using AI to generate things. And I was like, well, I I'd be happy to read them so that you have a human voice, reading them especially if we move on to legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto. And, it was a big project. I I don't know exactly how long it took Bevan, but he created graphics for every sentence, basically, of of the movie and animated them all using the AI tools. And, it came out really, really amazing. It's like a 38 minute film.
So I think for for to have that many views for a 38 minute film, that's really about the philosophy of Bitcoin, not why the number's gonna go up or this or that, but why Bitcoin is a spiritual awakening that moves so many people and what the meaning of Satoshi's actions were from a spiritual philosophical perspective, is something that makes me really, really happy. So that's that that's, I think, the story of me leading up to my my life's paths intersecting with, with Bevan's and us, getting this number of collab like, I know Bevan's probably made 8, 9, 10 of my other essays into movies, and I'm they're terrific, and they're all on the Bit Intelligence, site. So it's a nice way to consume the essays without having to sit down and read.
[00:16:11] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that's the magic too, guys, because it's like we think about, you know, the 5 different learning styles. Right? And some people wanna hear things, some people wanna see things, some people wanna touch things, some people wanna feel things, you know, all the stuff. And so, the fact that you guys can combine those, obviously, with the visual and the words and whatnot, we think about the 5 love language and stuff. So so I think it's so important for any of us creatives to go, like, out there and use our little zone of genius, you know, and start putting, you know, our our work out there in the lens that feels the most, enlivened by our souls. Like, obviously, Tomory, you're such a great prolific wordsmith, you know, and and Bevan, like, you know what to do with visuals and sounds and how to make things transition from one place to another, and it's like, oh, woah. What's gonna happen here? You know? And so the fact that you 2 can do this, you know, again, chocolate and peanut butter combo plan is pretty pretty cool. What's it like, Bevin, you know, for, you know, when you take something of Tomer's. Okay? So let's say you take Tomer's, you know, written word, how what's your process like? How do you decide, like, you know, do you storyboard stuff? Do you, you know, just kind of put, like, a big collage of different things? Like, I'd just be curious, like, how do you come up with the visual storytelling to go along with his words?
[00:17:32] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's sort of like, taking it, not word word by word, but, like, sentence by sentence. You know, I'll read the the article and then, oftentimes, I'll, like, put on some classical music or or something. I I like, you know, listening to, like, classical piano. I used to play piano when I was younger and Mhmm. Although I'm not you know, I don't really play piano anymore. I just something about that type of music, like, speaks to me. And so I'll put on some music and I'll read the the article and kinda just, like, get the, you know, get the vibe, like, feel the emotion kinda. And then, yeah, and then I go into Midjourney and I just start, typing in prompts.
I I kinda, like, go between Midjourney and and Chat GPT, because Chat GPT can help you create better Midjourney prompts, without spending all your time, you know, trying to think about how to create your prompt. So I'll, like, you know, type some things in, you know, so we're talking I'm I'm thinking about the,
[00:18:26] Unknown:
I can't remember the exact name, but it's like the greatest heist in in history. It was, the Yeah. I have I have an essay called why Bitcoin will end the greatest heist in history in the why Bitcoin book. That's the long that's the one that's, like, an 8 minute read.
[00:18:39] Unknown:
Yeah. Well yeah. So I'm thinking about that one and, like, yeah. While I was reading through that, I would just, like, type in different sentences, into midjourney and start, you know, generating prompts. And it's really like a a subtractive, I guess, process. It's like, when you're creating all these images. Right? Not all of them are gonna make them into the film. And the same as if you're filming it, you know, with a camera. You're filming all this stuff and not everything is gonna actually make it into the film. You just kinda have to go through it all eventually and then take what speaks, you know, to the story the best.
And, and so to do that, yeah, it's just it's just generating generating and generating. And then and then finding what, you know, matches the emotion, matches, you know, the content of the writing, and the style and and whatnot. I it was really helpful, I think, Tomer, when you started to narrate these yourself, like, especially with the legendary treasure. You know, the AI voices are not are still not not that great, but with, like, pauses and, you know, and and and, yeah, pronunciation
[00:19:48] Unknown:
and stuff like that. Yeah. Knowing where to put the emphasis.
[00:19:52] Unknown:
So it sounds like so what I'm hearing you say, Devin, is, like, you've got you know, you're taking kind of this template of of, you know, let's say, Tomer's work, for example. I know you've done a lot of other things as well. And but then you're sort of, like, putting some things in and letting the intuition guide you of, like, yes. That feels right. Less, that feels right. That feels right. And instead of just, like, do you you don't have, like, this predetermined, it has to look this way or go this way. It seems like you're more in, you know, a a a flow state with the the creative process?
[00:20:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I very much, let it evolve while while it happens. I I think, like, you know, planning and and preparation in creative adventures are, you know, it's very important. But at the same time, you also just have to, like, let things come up along the way. And, you know, if they do come up, you gotta follow that that path of thinking and that path of creativity and and see where it leads and not always, you know, that that path won't always lead to the best result, but sometimes you just have to follow it to figure out that that's not the best result and then, you know, follow another path. But, yeah, like like I said, it's very subtractive process. Like, you gotta generate or film a whole ton of stuff and then kinda just pick and choose and and cut things down, until, you know, it it seems like it plays well and it, you know, the visuals add to the music and to the writing and, it's really like a trifecta, you know, approach. Like, there's, you know, the the article and then there's the visuals and then there's the music. And, altogether, those three things, can produce, like, emotion for the world. I mean, each one of those things can produce emotion, but together,
[00:21:27] Unknown:
they can really, you know, have a powerful effect to the I I was just sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. I was looking at because I forgot the name of the book, but Rick Rubin, have you guys read the book, The Creative Act? Oh, it's so good. Do you know who Rick Rubin is? Like, he helped produce the Beastie Boys. He's one of the most prolific music producers Oh, wow. Cool. On Earth. And he's he's this, like, you know, Zen dude with the long beard and looks like Santa Claus, kind of, but he's just like he's produced some of the most prolific acts on Earth and, you know, really went through his creative process. And the book is called The Creative Act. I highly recommend it. I listen to books on audio, but, you know, there's all the chopped up stuff on YouTube. But he talks about, you know, the first, iteration of a creative process is just, like, get all the ideas. Like, just pull them all together. You know? Like, there's nothing that's not on the table. Right? And just get excited.
Let it be there, and then let that that magic, that divinity, that source, that, you know, inspiration, that that intuition kinda guide you to be like, oh, right. This can go here with that, and this can go over here. Oh, woah. What's over here? You know? And so not getting hung up on thinking that it has to be this rigid, experience. And so because of that, you know, he's been, you know, like, multibillion dollars worth of record sales and whatnot. And he's funny because he's very much like, I don't know how to read or write music. He's like, I have good taste. He's like, I know what feels right. I know what the audiences want. And I feel similar to that in my DJ. I'm not a billionaire dollar producer like him, but, like, you it's the vibe. Right? And so it's like when your taste and your vibe can, like, resonate with your audience, and then when it comes through you authentically, you know, and you give yourself permission to kinda play and mix and match, I think that's where the magic can happen. And so I I love hearing that that's that's part of your process naturally already. But I highly recommend The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. Like, what it's such a great, great, great book.
Tomer, what about you? Like, what's your do you have you know, when you did, Why Bitcoin, did you have, like did you just kinda throw it all out there and then start organizing and segmenting things? Or how how what was your process with that? It was a layered process. I get at first, I was I was writing about Bitcoin, and I had this
[00:23:50] Unknown:
gimmicky idea to do short educational of it interesting to all comers and with the words wine Bitcoin in the title. And and that that came to me over the course of a couple of months, I think, is how it it took me a while to get it going. I found my flow state with it, and then it was like I was waking up in the morning with essays that came to me in my sleep. I was really really resonating, really tuned into a particular vein of the message of Bitcoin at the time. And and I'm I'm really happy with how a lot of the stuff that I've written has held up over time. You know, Bitcoin changes so much, and so, you know, so many things happen. But at the very hard and core of Bitcoin, it is inalienable, and I think that that's what I was really tuned into when I was writing those pieces. But they came to me in the in in whatever order they came to me in, and that was the order I was writing them because I was treating it as a blog. And when it came time to laying it out as a book, I actually spent dozens of hours probably finding the perfect order and retitling them and making minor edits to them so that they were so that their flow was linear because a book is a linear process.
And, I mean, a blog is too, but it it it was what it was. So the the book is really, really tightly edited, tightly organized, highly organized, and, and and and logically order ordered. And that took a long time. I was I was shocked. You know, when I Chief Monkey is the guy who put me up to making the book. He said, look. I made a book, out of, the Bitcoin Baba Kakar, which I have here somewhere, but I'm not gonna step away to get it, which was a work of art that he said, you've already written the book. It should be easy. And I naively assumed it would be, so embarked on trying to make a book out of it. And it it ended up being, you know, hours of editing every day for
[00:25:40] Unknown:
60 to 90 days. I I Tomer, I know. I remember when we first I don't know if it was our first interview or at some point you were telling me that you thought like, yeah. No problem. Cool. Chaffee's gonna help me, and it's gonna be great. And we're just gonna do a couple layouts here. No problem. We'll put some words and a couple pictures. It'll be fine. And then you were just, like, it was so painstaking to do that. Yeah. I think it was Because you did create a work of art, you know, and I think that's what's really neat about you, and that's obviously why I love you and admire you as a fellow creative. And, you know, I remember when we first met, I was like, you gotta check out Ram Dass's book, you know, the Be Here Now book because it reminded me of why Bitcoin and how it was so, I mean, it was it's a work of art. You know? It's not just some book that you just, you know, oh, cool. I'm gonna read about Bitcoin. No. You made something very, very special for people, you know, to have and to give copies to others. You know? So I think, you know, your the effort and the proof of work that you guys did on it, it it really shows. And and so thank you for making that for us. Yeah. No. Thank you. It was a yeah. I don't wanna say it was a painful experience. It was just it was a very big experience. It it
[00:26:50] Unknown:
when I say that though, I reflect on it did discourage me from publishing other books.
[00:26:56] Unknown:
It's it's
[00:26:58] Unknown:
so it's so much work to get a book done, to get a book done right to, like, it Totally. And especially when you're making it artistic with with illustrations or photographs or something, it's one thing to publish text and let it flow. There is a text only version of why Bitcoin available on Amazon in trade size. But if you really wanna experience the fullness of the book pictures. You need the color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can get the coffee table version as a free PDF if you want. That's at swan.com/whybitcoin. So if you wanna sample if you wanna experience the content, before turning it into a physical concrete book, for yourself, you can absolutely just get it at at that address, swan.com/why bitcoin.
[00:27:39] Unknown:
And, well, then also with Bevin, with you too, because, obviously, I mean, I know how long it takes just to edit a JPEG for gosh sakes. And then, you know, going and doing movies and doing things where you've got to, like, get the frame and, oh, get this person's face over here or anything that you're doing. It's like the micro details that you guys do for your work is people don't understand what goes on in the background unless you're an artist, unless you're actually in the, you know, in the field kind of doing these things. And so, you know, they think like, oh, look, you made a a 12 minute video or an 18 minute video or a 40 page book, and it's like, oh, no. This took, like, hundreds of hours to do this little tiny little snippet, you know. And for me, even as a DJ, it's like and I never plan my sets, like, you know, I I but I practice, and I know my music, and I have, like, a monster collection. So, I mean, you know, a 1 hour DJ set could take me a 100 hours just to kind of play around and get new music and see what's gonna happen, and then I never know. And then people are like, oh, you're just playing music. I'm like, no. I'm not.
It's a little bit more than that. But, like, can you help people understand? Because somebody just put in the comment, and I'm not gonna put it up, Bevin. But there was a little bit of a, like, oh, what do you mean you're using AI for your art? And I'm like, AI is the coolest thing ever. But that's amazing. You know? So can you talk a little bit about the AI integration into your workflow? And I know, you know, Tomer, you do natural writing, but I think AI has a place to a certain degree for us writers, but it also isn't like you don't want your writing to be AI writing, but it can be a tool to assist. So, Bevin, I'll have you go first with, like, how AI has been helping you as an artist.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, goes back to what you just said. It's, like, really just a tool to assist, you know, and a tool to allow you to do things that you couldn't have done before. So, like, for example, my whole, YouTube channel, like, Bit Intelligence, my first video on that channel, like, I'd never done content like that before. And, like, sure, I'd go back and look at it. It's, like, a little cringey. But, but it was, like, it was a way for me to explore making content that I had never made before. And and only because of these AI tools existing. And, like, sure, I was, like, kinda interested in learning them too. So it was, like, it was almost like an outlet for for me to, like, learn how to kinda use these tools because there's this AI buzz.
But at the same time, the tools are really, really rudimentary. They still are, I think, kinda rudimentary. I think in the next 10 years, we're gonna see some really incredible stuff come out. Yeah. But, like, if you think about it like that, like, as, like, a calculator or, like, you know, just something to augment your own experience and creativity, especially with writing too, for example, like, I I think, like, chat g p t or any of these other large language models can be used to, like, stimulate ideas. They don't have to, you know, be the the one prompt. Here's my essay type, you know, situation, but you can, like, have a conversation with it. Hey. I'm thinking about this. I, like, I feel like I'm not you know, I wanna put this and this together.
Like, help me come up with a plan of, like, how to do this. That's how I use it a lot, especially with research as well. It's just like a a tool to, like, kinda formulate a plan to then execute, with your own, you know, brain cells. But then, like, again, with the, the images and whatnot, like, I just wouldn't be able to make art like Midjourney makes art. You know? A lot of lot of digital, creators, you know, they they have you know, they can make a certain type of art, but then Midjourney just makes a different type of art. And so if you think about, like and I'm I'm not necessarily, like, a digital artist like that, but, you know, if you think of, someone that is coming with a lot of, like, illustrator or Photoshop experience, merging those skills with, like, image generation and Big Journey, just, like, automatically, you just have so much more capability between that collaboration between, you know, man and machine or, you know, woman and machine, that it it can really augment your ability to create things. So, that's my perspective.
Of course, like, some of it is, like, you know, you're just generating and and curating, for me, specifically, with, like, the the videos. But at the same time, it goes back to, like, the trifecta of visuals and audio and, and music Yeah. Altogether coming kinda coming together.
[00:32:09] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's such an inspirational tool too. Like you said, like, the stuff that it will spit out based on what your prompts are, you're just like, oh, woah. My brain wouldn't have conceptualized that way of looking at that image, you know, or those sets of images. And so, you know, I think from that lens, it's really important to be open minded, obviously, as creatives to, like, really? You gave me a whole another set of crayons with all these colors? Heck, yeah. Let's play. You know? Instead of, well, these are the only colors in the rainbow, so you're only supposed to play with these. No. And and I I think it's like anybody who's a creative on Earth, if there are new tools to help you extract new ways of looking at things, whether it's verbally or visually or auditorially, you know, it's very, like, let's go play. Like, cool. There's more toys. You know? And so it can be just an inspirational tool. It can also be an organizational tool. And I know with, like, you ChatCPT or Perplexity or any of that stuff with Claude, you know, if I put something in and I'm like, make me a sales page. I need, like, a Frank Kern sales page for something, and it'll spit out the order of stuff. And then I put the content in, and it just makes my life a little bit more organized instead of having to go try to find a template for that, you know? And so so I think there's, you know, the inspirational side, and there's also the organizational side too, which is cool. But you don't use it as your only tool, you know?
For me, like, when I'm taking breaks, if I'm doing, you know, some deep work or if I'm getting grumpy on on on on Twitter because of what's going on on the planet. Tomer caught me the other day. He's like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm having a moment, dude. Like, they haven't freed Ross yet. What's going on? But but I'll go hit Midjourney because I just wanna see the colors. And for some reason, looking at those colors that it spits out into my face, obviously, you guys see I'm a colorful girl, it it soothes my little soul. So it's it's therapeutic in some ways as well. So, Tomer, what about you? You I saw you have something in your hand. You're it looks like you're gonna pull up. I so,
[00:34:07] Unknown:
like, for me, I I'm I'm tempted to use the expression the jury's still out on how but not, like, whether AI is good or not, but how exactly to use AI in beneficial ways and not in detrimental ways, especially as a writer. And I'll I'll get into it. I this thing that I grabbed, in, I think it was in late 2022, I was I was isolated at my cottage, which isn't mine, but, at a cottage that I have access to because I had COVID, and so I was staying with family. And Fractal and Crip, the artist who made this Yay, Fractal. Said, can I show you something? I've locked myself in a room for 21 days or 27 days with Midjourney, and this is when it was still really early. Like Right. I'm it might have been 2021, but, no, I'm pretty sure it was 2022 because of the COVID. That's when I had COVID. And he had authored a a graphic novel called the time chain codex, which was based off of a a series of, like, what, you know, what happens when we become multiplanetary and Bitcoin mining has time delay at light speed and all this kind of stuff.
This is this is my sealed version. I can go and grab another version, another copy if you wanna take a look at it. But he he actually went to the trouble of create using AI to create a full graphic novel around this narrative, and and then he and I spent because the text AI was nothing to use at that time, he and I spent, about that whole week while I was in isolation editing this novel, making sure that this the physics made sense and that the story made sense and that the continuity was good. And so I was, that was another great collaboration experience for me. He's really the creator and author of that, but I'm the editor and, and it was a wonderful experience of getting exposed to AI.
When it comes to using AI for writing, I'm I'm a little bit more restrained about my enthusiasm for it. I think it is an amazing research tool. Like, as they feed more and more data into the AI tools, you can do the kind of research that used to take 30 minutes on Google in 10 seconds using AI. Like, give me all the statistics on something by country and this and that. And it's generally now producing accurate results, although you still have to spend you actually have to spend more time fact checking and verifying than you do have on the research, which is which is kind of interesting. But when it comes to thinking or creative expression using AI in writing, I'm still, I'm still not in I don't wanna say even I'm not impressed. I I'm like, I feel that it it doesn't produce a quality of writing that is captivating.
It produces an academic or a silly, a silly version. But it but it I you can almost always tell when it's AI that's writing it. And and I think that becomes a discouragement to the reader to read it as, like, they'll say they'll take what's what they see is written by AI and then tell AI ask an AI to summarize it. So we're kind of getting to this point where we're all gonna have all these agents talking to one another and we're gonna be leaving ourselves out of the picture. And, you know, that that's a very unpredictable situation to put ourselves into and and we're in it. It's I'm not even discouraging people. I'm just saying like, you're in a situation where if you have to write a letter to some bureaucrat or some official, you might use AI to write it, and they're gonna receive it, and they're gonna use AI to reduce it into something, and then they'll use AI to respond to you. So you're not really speaking to people anymore. You're speaking to AI, and AI is speaking to AI, and AI is speaking to people and back and forth. And it's it's creating this intermediate, disintermediation between people talking to each other directly that I'm
[00:37:54] Unknown:
that I'm bothered by personally. Right? Other people may not be bothered by So let's talk about that, Tomer, because, obviously, yesterday, we saw I I don't know if you guys saw, but president Trump had I think it was yesterday. My brain is, like, squishing this whole week, but he had, you know, Larry Ellison and Sam Altman and the other guy from SoftBank. Was there, I think. Yeah. They're talking about the $500,000,000,000 thing they're trying to go build, which, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's gonna be a CIA, AI thing, blah blah blah. You know, like, we are in this soup of technology that is this great tool, this great gift, this great opportunity for us to play with. Right? But it's also it could be Venus flytrap, you know, and, like, you're in it, you know, and that's obviously what we're worried about is Bitcoiners with CBDCs and digital surveillance, etcetera. And so how can we 2 things. How do we, you know, stay connected as humans with our words, with our art, with our messages, you know, with talking to each other. Like, as far as you guys know, I'm a real person talking to you, but it could be the Val AI that I made.
You don't know. Like, you really don't know. It
[00:38:59] Unknown:
is getting to that point where there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of stuff that I see on on video where I'm, like, squinting hard and saying, does that have, like, some some dead giveaway that it's AI or is it really a person? Like, what's going on here? You know, generally, the slow motion and the limited amount of movement. Okay. But the giveaway keeps changing, right? It used to be that people's eyes were distorted or that they had the wrong number of fingers and that's all been corrected. But it's less to me, it's less about detecting whether it's AI. And actually, you know, if you ask AI to think for you and this is the the part where I where I'm probably most able to be articulate about it. It's like, if you use it as a crutch and you keep using it as a crutch and you don't, like, you'd let it do the thinking for you, The danger is not only that you stop learning how to think, but that you think the ideas that were fed to you by AI are your ideas.
You know, because, like, you wrote it. You you generated the prompt that said, tell me, tell me what's going on. And and then and then you're being programmed by the AI, not the other way around. Yeah. And so I think when it comes I think when it comes to thinking, you have to think for yourself. And you you can use AI to gather data and facts that help you string together the ideas. But if you don't exercise your ability to think critically, to put together statements and deduce logical like, valid logical connections from them, you become very vulnerable. You become vulnerable to not being able to use your mind. And so I that's one of the things that I'm particularly concerned about. I don't have a fix for it, and I'm not saying that everything was perfect beforehand. Like, I I think we're we've dumbed ourselves down as a society because we have so many tools that facilitate that are crutches for thinking, right? Nobody remembers phone numbers anymore because what because you don't need to. Nobody is particularly good at doing math in their head anymore because we've got calculators that are built into everything. And so there's just this general erosion of mental sharpness that we're all struggling with, and I and I worry that AI is making it worse. So I don't and I don't know how to make it better, but that's that's my caution. I so, like, I still don't use AI to write stuff. I've tried a couple times to see if I was happy with it, and, yeah, you know, you can you can make a short term article out of a tweet. Yeah. But but I think, again, people aren't people are reading much less because, I guess, there's this phenomenon. Like, I remember when personal video recorders first came out, you know, and you could you could have it record every episode of Seinfeld for you and you're and, like, we did, and then we stopped watching it because it's like, oh, the machine watched it for us.
So we stopped watching TV altogether when TV became more on demand and accessible and less scarce in the sense of, oh, we you know, it's 9 o'clock on a Thursday. We gotta watch gotta get to the TV before the show starts and run to the washroom during the commercial breaks. Like, all of that changed, and we actually watched less long form entertainment afterwards. And I think the same thing's happening with long form writing. People are looking for shorter and shorter stuff because there's so many different things because the ability to produce stuff is so much easier. So we we you know, we're in chaos right now, and chaos always settles into some form of order before going into chaos again.
And we're just kind of in that chaotic transition that is very unpredictable. That's why it's called chaos.
[00:42:24] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. And I think, you know, Tomer, you may nailed it. I mean, obviously, Bevin, you deal with this as well with, you know, your your content. It's one thing to make a 1 hour, you know, a film. It's one thing to make a 1 minute video. And it's like, what's gonna get more, not just attention and eyeballs because that's not the goal. The goal is activation, inspiration, and transformation
[00:42:46] Unknown:
to me. You know, as somebody who's out there. Well, even even before it, it's like, you know, what what do I think? Right? Well, I my writing helps me do my thinking. Right? I don't sometimes I don't know what I think until I've sat down to write something. And so, and writing tests your thinking. Like, you may think you think something, but when you've written it down, you're like, that's stupid, or that's inconsistent. That's Yeah. What do I really think? Like, if this is true, then that must be false, then this conclusion I had must be false. So you have to rework your thinking. And that's work. Right? And there's, and if you don't exercise that muscle in your brain of thinking and challenging ideas and coming up with solutions to problems, then you're, you're becoming intel intellectually weaker in the process. And I think that's, so even before, like, what are the results on other people? It's like, what is the personal result of thinking and writing and and working and doing? That's what gives you purpose. That's what gives you your unique exploration and discovery of yourself and what ideas resonate with you. I think that's what's so important. So if you just tell me what I think, draw me a picture of this, draw me a picture of that, you're not you're not testing your limits, or, you know, and and when you're not testing your limits, you're not fulfilling your fullest potential. So that's why Yeah. You're not growing. You're not hitting that purpose. It's it's warning signs.
[00:44:10] Unknown:
Yeah. And and I and think that's unfortunate. I think a lot of the younger generation is defaulting to this, you know. And, obviously, I think, Tomer, you and I are pretty close in our generational time codex. And Bevin, you're a bit younger, but but the younger younger generation is having this default. Like, oh, I'll just push a button. It'll solve the problem. I'll push a button. It'll make the art. I'll push a button. It'll do the article. And so or I'll push a button, and I'll have a relationship with somebody. And so we're offloading the humanity of of, you know, this gift of existence as those people in these skin suits to the machines. And so we have to, I think, have more, opportunities to come together. And, obviously, this is neat that the 3 of us are talking, and you still think that I'm real, but maybe I'm the AI.
You know? But, like, this is really cool, but it's still digitally, you know? And so it's kinda like Hold your hand up again. I said, hello. No. I've got 7 fingers. I know. No. Here. Hold on. We got 7. I'm an AI. But, like, you know, coming together in these, you know, real world experiences makes really up you know, great opportunities to to create art and create connections and and to be human. But, like, Bevin, I wanna come back to you with, you know, what you know, you congratulations on your new position too at Jan 3 with with Samson and everybody. Like, this is amazing because the work that you were putting out there, obviously, Samson saw and I love Samson, and he's just like, hell yeah, dude. Come on. We want you to to come work with us. And so as a creative, obviously, you know, Tomer, you know, the the stuff that you guys got to do together was inspirational. You weren't, like, hired by xyz corporation to go pitch, you know, the latest, you know, hardware wallet or whatever. And so you guys did this because it was something that came through your soul, you know? And so there's obviously a difference when we're being creatives from that lens, and then there's a difference when you're a creative from a, I've got the marketing department to run, and I've gotta go get some content out for an event or a product launch or a thing. You know? But how do you, Bevin, pull that into this work of yours? Because you're obviously such a beautiful creator, you know, and then now you get to turn into, you know, a collaboration with the company and not just other creatives.
[00:46:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess, thinking about, like, the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, like, that was just a piece that Toma wrote that really, really spoke to me. Right? And and so, like, I felt it. Like, emotionally, I was like, I feel I already feel this. I didn't have words for it myself. But, like, reading Tomer's words, I was like, woah. Like, you nailed that. Like, that's exactly how I feel. And that's why it became, like, a viral piece was because I'm sure that many, many other people read that piece and we're just like, woah. Yeah. Like, that that is also how I feel. I didn't really know how to say that before. And so, going back to what you said like that, you know, it was just like something that I I felt like I really wanted to do. Tomer, had been looking, to do that as well, and so it was just this perfect kind of like, joining of of passions.
And I I feel like we're lucky as Bitcoiners. I think a lot of people here are in the space are are just feel very passionately about Bitcoin because they know, how, you know, the the positive impact that it can have for, all people in the world. And so that, like, really becomes that that, push that drives you, to, you know, to wanna produce good work whether, you know, that be in the creative fields or, you know, in technical fields, or or what whatever. You know? Like, considering me working for for Jan 3 right now and, you know, a lot of it is, like, it's it's a tech job. It's, it's more corporate than, you know, things that I've been used to for the last 7 years, decade almost.
But in the same way that, like, I I felt passionate about, you know, wanting to make a a great film with Tomer's writing. I I kinda feel the same way about working with them in that, like, I just really want the I want the world to adopt Bitcoin. Right? And I want it to happen fast, slow enough for people to, you know, to understand it, but but fast enough for it to make an impact, in my life and, maybe even, you know, in the the first half of my life, would be great. So anything that I can do to to help move that forward, I'm I'm very, interested in, you know, working on and helping and, particularly this job has already, taught me new skills and and will, in the future. You know, there's constantly things that I'm being asked to do where I was like, wow, never never done that before. I guess I'll I'll try to figure it out, you know.
And that's where, like, going back to, you know, what you were saying about, like, you really have to think for yourself, Telmer. I feel like that's, a lot of Bitcoiners, are, you know, get that. Right? Because, like, they in order to understand and, and research, you know, the amount that they have about Bitcoin, they've had to, like, kinda break the the status quo of thinking, you know, about finance and economics and money and, you know, all all sorts of things that Bitcoin touches. And so I think, like, going back to using, like, AI tools and whatnot, like, as long as you have a passion and you, like, want to do something where you're willing to do the thinking yourself, then that's where it can be, like, a good collaboration.
Something I was thinking about when when you were saying that as well is, like, you know, it it's interesting. Like, I wonder I really wonder how, education is gonna change because of this. You know? Yeah. Like, the Gen zers, the the Gen Alpha or alpha. Right? Is it Generation Alpha? It's, like, after I don't know what they're Everybody was.
[00:50:08] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:50:11] Unknown:
But, like, you know, the the kids that are, like, young, like, young high school. I mean, let's do that's a good example. Right? Like, we don't even know because we know we can look it up. So
[00:50:21] Unknown:
Right. Right. But, yeah, I I just wonder, like, how you know, if I was if I'm thinking about myself as a young high school student and I had a hard project that I didn't wanna, you know, that I I I wanted to, like, go play with my friends or whatever, I would totally get on Shaji. Do you just generate it? You know? Yeah. But then you're you've lost that, like, mental stimulation and the the work, the proof of work that you have to do, in order to learn that information. And so it it is. It's like a catch 22. You're like, you know, from if you come from a place of passion and a place of of, you know, thinking, and you use it to augment your thinking and and and, your organization and your ideas, then it can work really well. But if you're just replacing it with, you know, machine thinking, then, yeah, it actually becomes like a problem, a big problem, because we don't wanna raise a generation of people that don't think for themselves, you know, that doesn't Okay. Doesn't let that long to a good future.
[00:51:22] Unknown:
Totally.
[00:51:23] Unknown:
Go ahead, Tomer. Yeah. I was just gonna say there's a very long term trend. It was like a 100 year, may maybe even more, trend of abundance. You know, technologies that create abundance reduce the quality at the same time. And so you end up with a lot of you end up with a lot, but you end up with a lower quality. And and and the part that you end up with less than is all the all the frills, all the art artistry. You end up with reduced products that are just calories, right, rather than carefully delicious freshly prepared food. You end up with $5 t shirts on made on mass rather than hand stitched, hand created, unique works unique articles of clothing. And and so this is you know, and now that we're entering into the intellectual age of mass production, we're we're gonna end up with something like that, which is, like, an enormous supply of words and pictures, but not, you know, not with the care taken into taken care of to get there. So I I think this is this is a really interesting issue. We just have to watch it unfold, and we have to each take ownership of what experience we're gonna have. And everything I said could be wrong. I mean, this could be a pivoting point for humanity, for the better, without the downside. But I think we have to be really careful. And that's certainly what you hear from most of the people who are much more knowledgeable about AI than the 3 of us, right? It's like, we need to be careful. It's a big opportunity, but it could also be, quite harmful.
[00:52:58] Unknown:
Well and I think either Tomer emailed it too just, like, it it's and I think we spoke about this a couple years ago at on on the the Swan panel. Just the more easily it is for people to, like, copy, paste, print, duplicate, whether it's words, music, art, it it becomes this, like, super soup. And you're kinda like, how do I filter out where the good stuff is where there's actually been not just this copy paste and cut and rip and remix kind of thing. But that's the mentality right now of, you know, the throwaway culture of this short term thinking culture. You know? And I think about, you know, we just I just had this big, long, I don't know, a few days ago thing with somebody from Ordinals and all this stuff. And they're like, oh, but it's real. I was like, no, dude. It's a JPEG. Okay. Stop. Like, this is not some, like, scarce thing. It's it's people can reproduce this and with this, you know, picture on my phone. But, like, the the the way that things have been so fast with how they get constructed, you know, and and the way that it's like, oh, here. Let's go build a building, and it's a big giant ugly square white box with some drywall, and then we're gonna put a nail up and put some art. Versus, like, here's a giant cathedral, you know, with, like, embedded art and the the ceilings and stuff that Michelangelo was doing. So it's like, where did we go from, you know, consciously thinking, like, that's the best thing we could do versus, like, now we're doing these little square things. And so I think it's a culture thing. And I and I think, like, you know, Bevin, what you were saying, kids are gonna be like, well, I gotta go get this assignment done, or I gotta go get this thing done for my boss or whatever, my client, and then I'm just gonna what's the path of least resistance and the shortest path? And if that means me putting a prompt in or whatever, copying and pasting and putting that out there, you know, you really how can we help the younger generation? And I guess I know, Bevin, you've got 7 minutes, for your next meeting. How can we help the younger generation of creatives and artists out there who are, you know, blessed with technology but also cursed with the the current programming of this short term thinking to, like, put some more time into your work, put more time into your process, put more time into your craft.
Yeah. It's it's an interesting I I do have a whole another hour, actually. So so I just I could just Good. Is that so, yeah, Tom, I don't I don't you know, I could talk for 17,000 hours, but I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go in about 15 minutes. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Okay. Great. Okay. So, Bevin, I'll let you go first on that one.
[00:55:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. To to that question, it's like I I don't know. I kinda think of, like, what you were just saying about, like, you know, a a lot of Bitcoiners say, like, we need to return to sound money because, like, we need to extend our, our time preference. Right? We need to look be looking farther advanced in the future and and planning for that, You know? And that Bitcoin helps you do that because it, you know, grows in value over time. And so you have now you have this way to, you know, plan your life over over the long term, thinking far out in advance and not just, like, you know, my next paycheck is coming in and I gotta get rid of this paper money because, like, it's gonna be worthless in, like, 15 years. So I I think Bitcoin helps with that. Like, I wonder if there's, like, this dichotomy between, like, you know, having a a a longer time preference or, sorry, is lower time preference is the right, term for that. And and then AI having us look more short term at our, like, day to day tasks.
In my opinion, like, we do we we got we we should look towards creating projects, for civilization and humanity, similar to the way that cathedrals were looked at, you know, in, in the renaissance and in, you know, back back in those days in, like, the 1300 or whatever. Because, like, those projects took 100 of years to create, and so it was, like, multiple generations of people that were putting their life's work into this one product, not knowing what could happen. You know? Like, during the building of that product, it could fall down. Plenty of, you know, churches fell down because they built them too tall. And they didn't they didn't figure out, like, the physics behind, you know, flying buttresses and, you know, buckling walls and stuff.
And so it's like yeah. I don't know. I think Bitcoin helps people think about longer term things like that. And it might be the ballast that allows, you know, humans to, take advantage of AI, with also having, you know, a lower time preference. I don't know if I'm explaining that that great. But but I I hope that there's, you know, some future like that where, you know, where we can get out of, you know, the, the short term thinking that, you know, the Fiat has kind of bestowed upon society.
[00:57:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think that the, you know, a lot of our our youth don't know what hammer and nail are. They don't know how to change a light bulb. They don't know how you know, I literally saw something the other day that was like, there's a study done with young people who don't know how to I'm like, how do you know how to change a light bulb? I mean, the tactile nature of building things, you know, has been diminished because of the magic of the digital world. You know? And I feel like, how can we have some fun and get people more excited about building, you know, like, I love Gaudi and Park Guell and, you know, the the masterpieces that have been built for public art. And, you know, obviously, Fractal is working on something. You know, a bunch of us are thinking, you know, I have a Peace Park project idea. It's like, the more that we can get people out of the screen life into touching things in the world in a place of awe and wonder and collaboration and knowing, like, wow. This is what people can do together. It's like our hearts and minds, I think, can come together in a different way as well. You know? And and it is that low time preference that, you know, Bitcoiners share. And, obviously, hopefully, the younger generation will start to get that and and understand, like, why is it important to have that painstaking experience of editing those 2 pages and making sure that the text is here and the picture's here or the, you know, the light's gonna shine through this way when it's, you know, January 21st versus June 21st kind of thing from a light. It's like getting people back into the natural world and, you know, marrying it with the magic of the digital world, I think, is gonna be a fun journey to see what happens here in the next, you know, couple decades, you know, with our younger generation. You know, I've got teenagers and, you know, and so, yeah. So we'll see how that goes. What, I wanna shut up now. What what do you guys have? I know you've only got a few more minutes. What do you have what's the last couple comments you guys wanna make to the general wonderful artistic Bitcoiners out there and people who wanna learn about Bitcoin? Like, what would you what pieces of advice would you each give them to, get started on their Bitcoin artistic journey and certainly a collaborative journey with perhaps some other Bitcoiners?
[01:00:09] Unknown:
I mean, for me, it's it's put yourself out there for, like, for yourself first. Right? Like, no. The the goal isn't to impress other people. It's to see what you're capable of. And so do and and don't second guess yourself. Don't worry about imposter syndrome. Go with the flow. Surrender. If you think you can write, I like, for me, I just remember making the decision that I was gonna write, and I was walking through the forest typing on my phone, and then I sat down afterwards to read, and I'm like, wow. I had no idea I could write so well. So it was kind of this right? It came through the do it comes through the doing, and the more you do, the better you get. So don't give up. If it like, if at first you don't succeed, try try again because you're actually gonna get better. You're gonna learn from your mistakes, and get there. So become become what you want to be, 1st and foremost.
And then the this notion of collaboration that you will find the collaborators you need when you see what the limits of what your ability is and what you envision making that you don't have the ability to do. Right? Like, I I didn't have the ability to create the video or the music or everything for for the movies that I I was interested in making, but the universe handed me introductions, which it might have otherwise. And I would have let them go if I wasn't looking for a director, if I wasn't looking for an editor. But I had been looking for these things, and and lo and behold, they pass right before your very eyes, and they're looking for you. Right? Like, they're they're looking for content to apply their skills of filmmaking, music writing, you know, editing, too. So get yourself out there, start publishing whatever it is that you do as an artist, and and be active in in having other people see your work, which is your genuine work. It's not something that you created for visual, you know, for for engagement, but you created it because it's what you care about and what you love. And then the people you connect with won't be other people who are in it for the wrong reason. There'll be other people who are in it for the right reasons with whom your work meshes best, and that's the most satisfying and rewarding artistic type of project that there is.
[01:02:22] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's super it's such good advice, Tomer. And I know, you know, when I had met you and read the legendary Treasure, I was like, oh, wow. We gotta make Satoshi the cyber opera. And I started coming with this crazy psycho idea of doing, you know, Burning Man meets Cirque du Soleil meets Truman meets, you know or is that whatever that you know what I'm talking about. The but we started this project, and it was just like, what can we do that's different? This this mixed multimedia thing, and it was obviously in a bear market, but, like, we created this whole new version of it that was a little bit different. And now TJ, God bless him, he's in South Africa at adopting Bitcoin. And because he was part of that collaborative team, he's taken, you know, a fork of what we've, you know, all did together and is making something magical with it. And so it's just really neat to see, like, put yourself out there and reach out to people and, like, don't be afraid. Like, yes. Exactly. The bounty of Satoshi. And so I'm so excited for him, you know, because he took something that got you know, we all there's no such thing as new art, period. Everything is always like a a a copy, a rip off, an inspiration of some other artist, you know, a word, a picture, a color, a combination of it. So for any of us to go, like, that's mine. Don't take it. Like, it's retarded.
And so, oh, I said it. I love that word. I'll have to say it again.
[01:03:42] Unknown:
Sorry, Tomer. I'm just gonna gonna add add to that. Like, don't really don't don't be afraid to copy. You know, I I think I I can't remember. I don't know if it was Picasso or I don't know. Some some major artist was just like, I I don't remember the exact same, but it was it's like great artist copy. Right? The the Yeah. Great. Good artist copy. Great artist steal. Did it?
[01:04:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. It's it's good artist copy. Great artist steal. Yeah.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
So so copy and copy and steal all you want, especially, if it's for your own development and if you're reaching out to the the people that you want, you know, to collaborate with, and you're, you know, seeing work from them that speaks to you. Right? And that's exactly how Tomer and I got connected. I I quite literally actually, the first few videos that I made, of his, I I rewrote myself, which was definitely a mistake because it took me a really long time and then it was just like worse writing. But, like, at the time, I was just like, I was like, ah, I can't just, like, you know, copy this guy's writing. Like, I don't wanna, like, you know, I don't I don't want to be weird when I send it to him and and but then at the same time, like, I then I finally did do one where I just took it verbatim from the article.
And, you know, it it played really well, and it just, like, added, I think, some, you know, some power to to the article. And so, don't be afraid to copy, you know, if, if it doesn't work out or it doesn't work out, you know, but you've at least grown from that experience.
[01:05:12] Unknown:
Yeah. And isn't there a phrase where is it like, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission sometimes? And so to, like, what you did, Bevin, was, like, take something that inspired you, and then you added on it. You embellished it with the the visuals and the the video part. And so I think a lot of people are so they think like, well, what I need to go call this person or email them or write them, make sure I can have permission to play with their stuff. It's like, just take it and mess it around and then go see if it works. If it doesn't, great. Fine. You know? But, like, obviously, don't try to monetize it and steal anything financially from another artist. That's not in with integrity. But, you know, from a a creative lens, I think that's a really cool thing. Right? It's like you've got this infinite palette of all of these humans out there that have made so many things, and it's kinda like, hey. I took your thing and I made a shirt or I did whatever out of it. You know? And so Yeah. I I think that's something for all of us to to enjoy the palette of what's already out there and have some fun kind of remixing it. And, obviously, as a DJ, like, that's my job. I'm not like, oh, I'm making brand new music every time I come up here. I'm taking other people's gorgeous work and celebrating and elevating what they've done and remixing it and doing these fun new things. So it's like, that's what it's meant to do, I think, if it's real art. And so Exactly.
Yeah. So I think I think that's such great advice. So what do you guys think? I know I know I know Tom where you guys said you gotta wrap up a little bit. So I just wanted to you know, any final thoughts for the the the 589 listeners right now? One one last thing. I I I said before that I I was motivated to work on another book, but I did actually publish one more book. Oh, yeah, dude. Sorry. Oh oh, god. Okay. Hold on. I'm gonna let me celebrate you. Children's book? I wanna celebrate you, Tomer, because I forgot. Oh, my bad. Totally. I'm sorry. Tomer wrote this gorgeous book. He put it up showed up put it up on the the thing, Satoshi Nakamoto and his Bitcoin invention. So, Tomer, how cool is it? Right? He's writing this cool psychedelic book called Why Bitcoin? He's making all these, you know, generational wild videos, legendary treasure of Satoshi, and then he wrote a children's book. And guess what him and Scott from Shamari did? They donated tons and tons and tons of books to Toys for Tots so that, you know, during the holidays, the kids could learn about Bitcoin. But, Tomer, talk about that because that was obviously a different collaboration because the art was different, and it was more geared for Shamari's art. You know? I mean, the heart Let me put that. I gotta get a link out there. The are we
[01:07:38] Unknown:
when I did why Bitcoin, I I said, like, this was so much work, and it was just I I didn't feel like I had it in me to write another to put to put out another book. I had written this very short children's book, which which in a sense is like, taking the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto, which is this deep philosophical spiritual essay and, and rewriting it in like 400 words, with accessible concepts for children. I wrote it all in one morning, but I was so discouraged from the effort of, and, and this of course needed art because it was a children's book. And then I tried to work with, I tried to collaborate with other artists, but I just wasn't getting the right flow, working, working for me, and they were ill, and then I was ill. And it was just it was really, really difficult, and I thought I would never get this book published. And then at the same, conference where, Bevan and I met, it was there was a VIP night, and one of one of the Swan sales representatives brought over a couple of his, clients. He'd heard this book, and he said, Toma, read read tell these people about the book you had. So I had the text on my eye on my phone, and I, I read it to them, and everybody was crying, like, with tears of you've gotta publish this book. And I said, but it's so hard to publish a book. So I said, just get together with Scott from Shamery, and he'll and he'll put it together for you. And so I said I I connected with him, and I said, absolutely. You know, if you can get if you can find the artist and you can publish it, you can, you can have all the rights to it and keep all the money from it. And so I'm thrilled after a couple years, after having written it, that the thing has seen the light of day. It's fully illustrated, and I and I I've seen it read to kids. I mean, I I did a bunch of test readings myself when, when I first wrote it, but then I've seen with this cop with this version of the book, people with kids as young as 2 years old, read it to them, people with kids 7, 8, and 9 years old, and the kids love it, and they ask to have it read over and over again to them. And it's a nice story, and it's for certainly for Bitcoiners.
It really aligns with the Bitcoin ethos and the Bitcoin inspiration and and message of hope. So this is available at the Shamari site. Satoshi Nakamoto and his Bitcoin invention. It's all about the creation of Bitcoin, and this it kinda tells the story of Satoshi to children,
[01:10:00] Unknown:
which is a really nice way to tell them. So that's I love it. Thanks, Tomer. And and I think Can't wait to check that out. Yeah. It's so cool. And I think, again, anyone who's listening out there who's a creative. Okay? Like, we're we're in this place where IP is very difficult to be. Like, it's mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. And I think that's what's really neat about Bitcoiners and creatives in general. It's kinda like, here, just take this creativity and go do something with it and get it out there. Because it's one thing to be in this walled garden mindset, which a lot of people are, and I think that's the unfortunate part. I'm I'm gonna call it out again about the the the ordinals and descriptions and the NFT people. It's like all it is is, like, support your local creator. You know? If you like Tomer's work, send him some sats. Like, you know, do it on Nostra, do it on whatever, buy the books. But, like, this idea of this, like, I can't let anyone touch my sample or my video or my art or my words, it's very, it's so restrictive in your creative flow and your process, and we've been conditioned by the old system to be in that tight, you know, you know, movie, studio or record studio or any of it. Like, don't let your art out there unless you've got a license. And so the generosity, unless you've got a license.
And so the generosity of the hearts and souls and spirits of Bitcoiners has created a whole new way, I think, for all of us to think as creatives, you know. And so we don't have to be, you know, mine, mine, mine. It's no. It's like ours, ours, ours. And I love that you did that, Tomer. I think it's really, really cool that you gave that to them. And, you know, obviously, they're on a mission to educate children in their own unique way, and I love Shamari. They're the best. And so, anyways, I just it speaks to the ethos of of Bitcoiners, and so thanks for doing that.
[01:11:47] Unknown:
It's an honor and a pleasure. Right? Just being able to like, you know, if if the me from 10 years ago looked at this stuff that I've been able to produce and said, you're gonna produce and someone said, you're gonna produce this over the next 5, 10 years, he would've, he would've been really delighted. And, and when I look back, I really am I feel privileged, I honoured, only called blessed, I guess, is the right word to have gotten the opportunity to bring the to be the vessel that brings these things into the world. And Yeah. And that's the satisfaction in creating art. I know. You know? There may be financial satisfaction that that some people are able to generate. That's not necessarily the case for me, but it's not it's not the reason I get involved in art. Totally.
[01:12:31] Unknown:
And and and same for you, Bevin. Like, the work that you've done, and I'm sure you've gotten some commissions to do different things and have been paid, but you can see from the way that your art has been, growing over time. It's like you this is something you wake up and you're excited about. This isn't just, I gotta go punch the clock and make some Bitcoin videos and do some storytelling about stuff. It's like just both of you. You get up and me too. Like, I'm just like, how do I get to be a part of this today and make the world a better place, you know, with my gift? So, so, yeah, the 2 of you guys are just bomb. Go ahead, Bevin. Yeah.
[01:13:08] Unknown:
It it's kinda funny, like, if I think about, like, my my career path, like, it it was very much fueled by, like, this fiat, like, like, hopelessness, I guess, of being, like, you know, what you know, I if if I'm never gonna, you know if I feel like I'm always, like, failing, I might as well do something I love, You know? Because then I'll at least have fun doing it. And and that's really like kinda why I chose like the film making path and like kinda went down that because I was already doing it, I was already doing it just for fun, on the side.
And and so I was like, man, if this if life is gonna be hard then I might as well do something I love. But then at on the flip side it's like then you under you start to understand Bitcoin and you're like, okay, well doing something you love is actually like, you know, you could help people in in certain ways. And, and it's not all about, you know, money. And there is a future, you know. If you save in Bitcoin slowly over time with little chunks, then, yeah, you don't have to have this, like, doom and gloom kinda perception of the future. You you can, you know, see that the future could be better than it is today.
Totally. And I think I do have one question for for Tomer. Sorry. Yeah. Go. Tomer, you you mentioned that you were, working on another article similar to, like, the stature of Bitcoin's generational wealth and legendary treasures to Nakamoto. Did I say that? I yeah. Last time we talked, it was months months ago.
[01:14:33] Unknown:
So so maybe maybe there's no progress there. It's gone. It's gone. I I I think I know which article you're talking about, and it's gone into a little bit of a slumber mode because it's you know, in the creative process, some of these things pivot, and, and then other priorities come and and they take they take the rest. Of course. There's like you know, in the unpublished, unfinished works of Tomer, Strathlete, Google Drive, There's a lot of different things over there. And when the time is right, I'm gonna return to a bunch of them and finish them off. It just, it hasn't been the right time, you know. Like, when you, when you're working on something that's as dear to your heart as, like, the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto was to me, You're just not ready to put it out until you've figured out until you've solved the problem that you're trying to answer with it. And I think I've got a number of different pieces out there that are unsolved. Right? They're still a work in progress for me, and I can't rely on AI to solve them. And I need time. I need more experience interacting with the world to see to see what I really feel so that I can publish it honestly and and as a complete work rather than as an an unfinished work. But, yeah, there's a there's quite a few out there, and I'm I'm not a 100% sure which one we were talk I was referring to when I spoke to you, but it's, there's nothing imminent.
I I regret to inform
[01:15:51] Unknown:
those who are waiting for something. That that's okay. But when when that, you know, time and place does come to you where you, feel like you, you know, you've had the right experiences to finish the piece, I would I would love to do another collaboration with you in the future.
[01:16:04] Unknown:
Isn't that the coolest thing, you guys? Like, whoever is listening, like, they're both just like, yeah. Let's work together. It's so fun. Like, I I love hearing that. And, you know, and and I I wanna say something super quick. Tomer, I know you gotta jump off, and so I wanna honor your time. But people who are artists who are listening, you know, we suffer from, you know, this old mindset, this old code that says we have to be starving artists, you know, and and it is a difficult thing when we're in the digital world where everything is reproducible, and then, you know, people can go copy your your words, your song, your videos. And it's like, how do you how do you support and sustain yourself as an artist? And so what I wanna just do a quick, quick, quick super shout out to Noster and Zapping and Value For Value. There are artists out there who, like Ainsley Costello. I got to go to Austin, like, last month for, a a value for value summit and, you know, talking about, how can we use Noster in a way to you know, not that you're gonna pay your mortgage and your rent and get your kids to school with all of this, but at least it will complement you more than just, you know, your point 0 0 0 2¢ on Spotify for every play. And so when you think in terms of a 1000 true fans, when you think in terms of community building with the people who love you and know your patrons who can't wait to get the next thing that you created because you keep speaking to their heart, minds, and souls with whatever the form of art is. Like, Nostra creates this really interesting way to have that one on one communication and feedback, and it's not just like, like, like. It's like you're putting your zaps, your money, your Bitcoin, your SATs where your heart and your patronage is. And so I want anybody who's listening to this to start considering, like, get yourself an Oster account. It's super easy. You can go to Primal. You can go to Demus. You can go to Amethyst. You can go to Nostril. There's all sorts of stuff, but, like, get an Austro account and start understanding how Bitcoin can start to help you as a creative, as an artist put yourself out there. There's a guy, I think it was Henry the Invisible Man, who performed at the Boostagram Ball with Adam and Adam Curry and, open, you know, Mike from OpenSats or open mic, from Tunster.
And now he's like this fucking legend over there on Noster because he keeps just making these, like, little one minute videos of him with his bass guitar and showing everybody how he's making stuff, and people are just zap, zap, zap, zapping him. And he's just like, where have I been? You know? So it's just like it's all of the art is is you know, wants to get in the hands and the hearts of other people. So use an Oster, and that's why Bitcoin is such an interesting tool. It's not working on any of these other platforms. So, so I just wanted to say that you don't have to be a starving artist to be an artist.
But, yeah, so what do we think, guys? Are we good? I wanna honor Tomer's time here.
[01:18:56] Unknown:
Yeah? Yeah. That was that's a great conversation.
[01:18:58] Unknown:
Thanks for having us. Yeah. Of course. I love you guys so much, and I I can't wait to see what the next collaboration is with the 2 of you. I know, Bevin, when I get done with Bitcoin for Peace, I would love I know you did a couple, like, the interviews in your videos, but I have a little bit more in-depth thing that I'm working on. It'd be great to collab with you on that too, so this will be fun. Yeah. For sure. But everybody, you guys, make sure you go follow Tomer, on x at Tomer Strollite, and then you can follow Bevin as well, bevin_wait, w a I t e. And everything's gonna be in the show notes. And for those of you listening, hey, guess what? Ross is free. I hope he's having the hamburger or something delicious this afternoon for lunch.
Yeah. Thanks again, Tomer. Thanks again, Bevin. You guys are the best, and thanks for, you know, teaching the the Bitcoiners out here how to be creatives and and collaborate. Thanks for having us, Belle. You're welcome. Alright, everybody. Peace, love, and warm aloha. God bless. Cheers. Bye bye. Cheers.
Introduction and Gratitude
Artistic Collaborations in Bitcoin
Guest Introductions: Bevan Waite and Tomer Strolight
Bevan Waite's Journey into Bitcoin
Tomer Strolight's Bitcoin Obsession
Collaborative Projects and Artistic Vision
The Creative Process: From Words to Visuals
AI in Art and Writing
Balancing Passion and Professionalism
Encouraging Creativity in the Next Generation
The Value of Artistic Collaboration
Final Thoughts and Future Projects
