In this episode, I am thrilled to welcome Wyatt O'Rourke, a founding member of the Denver Space, a Bitcoin community hub, and the founder of Basilic Financial. Wyatt shares his journey into the Bitcoin world, highlighting his background as a devout Catholic and how it intertwines with his Bitcoin philosophy. We delve into the creation of the Denver Space, a community-driven Bitcoin Citadel, and discuss the importance of building a strong, supportive community.
Wyatt talks about his article on humanity's fatal flaw, exploring the idea that centralizing money leads to societal downfall. We discuss the historical patterns of civilizations and how Bitcoin offers a new paradigm. Wyatt shares insights into the similarities between Bitcoin and Catholicism, emphasizing the moral worldview and long-term thinking.
We also explore the challenges and opportunities presented by technological advancements, the importance of individual agency, and how Bitcoin can serve as a tool for financial sovereignty. Wyatt shares his vision for the Denver space as a hub for education and community building, inviting listeners to engage with the Bitcoin community.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, technology, and finance, and explore how Bitcoin can be a force for positive change in the world.
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Check out his recent article.
https://x.com/bitesizemag_/article/1837442959651840238
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https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/djvalerieblove/195
(00:00:33) Introduction and Guest Welcome
(00:01:09) Wyatt O'Rourke's Journey to Bitcoin
(00:02:45) Bitcoin and Catholicism: A Unique Perspective
(00:06:33) Thank God for Bitcoin Conference
(00:09:40) Bridging TradFi and Bitcoin
(00:14:29) Humanity's Fatal Flaw: Centralized Money
(00:19:53) Technological Gifts and Human Agency
(00:28:15) The Fall of Civilizations and Market Signals
(00:37:31) Deaths of Despair and Fiat Money
(00:45:39) Family, Faith, and Financial Planning
(00:53:28) Entrepreneurship vs. W2 Employment
(01:03:16) AI, Technology, and Future Opportunities
(01:09:54) The Denver Space: A Bitcoin Citadel
(01:18:49) Upcoming Events at the Denver Space
(01:21:40) Final Thoughts and Words of Wisdom
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[00:00:33]
Unknown:
Aloha, Love Tribe. I'm so excited to have a soul brother here with me who is one of the founding members of the Denver space, the space in Denver. This is like a Bitcoin Park, Bitcoin comments. I'm so proud of what you guys have been doing there. You're also the founder of Basilic Financial. You're an entrepreneur, an urbanist, somebody who is bringing the community around, Denver and Boulder and all these areas to the space. Welcome, Wyatt O'Rourke. How's it going, brother?
[00:01:04] Unknown:
Great. Thanks so much for having me, Val.
[00:01:06] Unknown:
Oh, I'm so glad you're here. Dude, what's going on? Tell everybody who you are and, you know, what's happening in the world of of Wyatt and why you're here and how we're gonna talk about humanity's fatal flaw.
[00:01:21] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. I I'm pumped to be here. This is probably the article, you know, some of the the piece I've written I'm I'm most proud of and, you know, really just try to bring in, you know, a bunch of things I've learned from the Bitcoin community, you know, made a huge effort over the last 2 years to get involved because I've gotten so much out of the community. So it's like, you know, what can I get back? And, you know, the space is a huge part of that. We just formally moved into a gorgeous building here in the beginning of October. It's been a labor of love. It's a community driven effort. You know? The the folks at, you know, Bitcoin Commons, Bitcoin Park, they've been, you know, tremendously helpful and, you know, giving us advice, but they're a little bit more top down, where we're a little more, you know, bottom up community driven member, you know, run and operate it. And so, it's just been so rewarding, you know, being a part of something like that, and and, you know, being able to to build, you know, something from scratch, and and, you know, really conceptualize an idea into something physical. And, you know, you're a huge part of that as well. I won't be the the same without you.
[00:02:30] Unknown:
There you go.
[00:02:31] Unknown:
Oh, so sad that you guys got there. Yeah.
[00:02:34] Unknown:
Okay. So now I'm on this side of the screen. So if I'm looking at you, does it look like I'm looking away or am I looking at you? No. So it looks like you're looking at me. Still look like I'm looking? Oh, good. Okay. This is better. Okay. So we're gonna really I I pulled up your article too on X, and I I wanna go through a diagram. But what what first of all, you know, let's let everybody know a little bit about your background. Right? Like, how did you get to this point? How come you're a Bitcoiner? You know, what transfer transformational thing with, you know, in your life that you became a Bitcoiner?
[00:03:05] Unknown:
Absolutely. So I mean, I'm a devout Catholic and, you know, it's like a striking resemblance of, like, the the 2 more worldviews, combined, you know, so that gives me a, you know, a ton of, you know, faith and and confidence, you know, moving forward, you know, on a on a new monetary standard. But, I I always joke, it's like I'm traditionally trained in finance and like a lot of good, you know, that does me now as a big coiner, but it took me a long time, I was, you know, frustratingly slow, you know, to the to the bandwagon. But, unfortunately, you know, I I live with a roommate after college who who OrangeBuild Maine, Noah Marsh. I give him a ton of credit for that. You know, I had to really retrain myself in the in the Bitcoin ways, but I've always really identified as an entrepreneur, you know, to begin with. And so, I've had a a couple startups I'm working on building Pacific Financial right now. We're, state registered RIA in Colorado, and we really work with clients to help bridge the gap between traditional financial services and Bitcoin Financial Services. And, you know, really try to, you know, be, a coach, a mentor, a sounding board, and and help, you know, grow Bitcoin adoption and bring people into, you know, a new monetary system where, you know, it's not hard to, you know, find the the flaws in our existing monetary system. And it's like, I always well, one of the reasons I love Bitcoin, it's like one of those things, like, once you see it, like, you can't unsee it, right? And it just opens up like this whole new world of of rabbit holes that I've enjoyed, you know, diving into and and learning more about, and you just get to meet, you know, so many great people, you know, through those different connections and and mutual synergies. It's it's fantastic. I love Bitcoin.
[00:04:50] Unknown:
Me too. I wanna come back to you. You said it, you know, being a devout catholic, like Bitcoin, you know, has some similarities. Like, can you help everybody understand what that means to you? Yeah. Absolutely. I always,
[00:05:02] Unknown:
joke with my Protestant friends, you know, it's like, you know, I believe you Catholicism, you know, we're the the one true church and, you know, we kinda have, like, the different branches and denominations that, you know, come off of that. You know, I think of, you know, Bitcoin is being, you know, like the one true blockchain, and then you have, you know, all these, you know, offshoots and and shit coins, you know, out off of that. But you really it's just kinda like I bring it back to, like, you know, the moral worldview where it's like, you know, as Catholics, you know, we believe in lord and savior. Right? So it's like, you know, the savior is the good aspect, you know, the unconditional love, you know, the forgiveness.
But, you know, there's also the the Lord aspect, you know, where there's, you know, suffering is, you know, innate within our, you know, human nature and our human condition. And I think in order to, you know, get through those things, you need to have, you know, long term time preference. You know, you need to sacrifice and you need to, you know, be devotional, you know, to your work. And, I think just given some of the the native properties of Bitcoin and how, you know, it can't be debased. It's just built in in something true and foundational much like, you know, I think the the faith.
[00:06:17] Unknown:
Okay. Cool. And and when you're talking with other people who are also Catholic in your family or your friends or at your church, like, are they do they see it? Have they had their eyes open, you know, from this lens? I'd just be curious, like, what's your what's been your experience on that level?
[00:06:34] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. It they are definitely starting to I intended the thank God for Bitcoin conference in Nashville this year. And that, that was a really cool experience. And, you know, that, that is more, you know, a Christian conference. So, you know, it's kind of, you know, a little broadened scope there, but they did a tremendous job just, you know, pointing out the similarities between, you know, Bitcoin and Christianity. And it really is like eerie. You know, you can, you know, find multiple, you know, biblical references about, you know, how inflation, you know, is theft and, you know, how tyrants are, you know, not to be tolerated. And it's just like these things are so, you know, in and core in in Bitcoin. So seeing the correlation of the 2, I think is definitely opening some eyes. One of the the projects I'm working on right now is kind of tweaking, like, the thank God for Bitcoin conference and and making it our, thank God for Bitcoin thesis, excuse me, and making it, specifically, you know, catholic and I'm working on a presentation, to give to my my parish. And I'm I'm really excited about the opportunity to do that and just to see how how people react because I don't think it's intuitive for people to make the connection. And so it's like, if you are able to and seeing the light bulb goes off, it's pretty rewarding.
[00:07:47] Unknown:
I I love that. And so okay. So you're taking the thank God for Bitcoin presentation and you're tailoring a little bit more from a Catholic lens. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. I love it. And I think that's so important, Wyatt, because, again, if you when you speak people's languages, you have a lot more opportunities to connect. But if you're over here and you're trying to communicate something, and they're like, yeah, I kinda get it, and, okay, yeah, maybe the dots can connect. It's, like, everything is story and analogy and vocabulary. Right? And so it's, like, if we're relating things, you know, and associating things in languages, you know, that are familiar, that we believe in, that makes sense, it's a whole lot easier to help people connect the dots, you know. And I think, that's our jobs, right, as humans, is being dot connectors. And so, you know, what so right now, like, you are obviously working on you know, the space. You're working on Basilica Financial. I love that you're helping bridge this, you know, TradFi with Bitcoin World. Like, what are you finding with your clients, like, who are are most of your clients coming in? Like, are they equally curious about Bitcoin and TradFi? Or are they mostly TradFi and you're like, oh, well, that's orange pill them?
[00:08:54] Unknown:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. It it's a great question. And, you know, what I found is, you know, you know, a couple people, you know, I believe it's my fiduciary duty, you know, to to talk about Bitcoin. Yeah. You know, best performing asset. And it it's it's funny, you know, seeing how how people, you know, come to it or, you know, like you were saying, meeting them at their level and, you know, trying to find, you know, that that light bulb moment. A lot of people do recognize to some extent the money is broken. Right? They can't quite put their finger on it, but they know something's off. Right? And so, you know, you have, like, some gold bugs per se, you know, that are pretty, you know, in tune with the money being broken. They just don't know or comfortable with Bitcoin or, you know, a lot of people are concerned with inflation and, you know, that's an easy intro into Bitcoin. So when I sit down to do a financial plan, I always make sure to, actually as use this tool called Nakamoto Portfolio, which was open sourced by Swan, which is fantastic. I would highly recommend everybody, you know, go check that out and they have, you know, multiple finance resources to play with their, it's a great site.
So, you know, put in their existing portfolio so they can see how it compares, you know, to to Bitcoin. And I think, you know, that really does help open people's eyes. You know, it's like number go goes up as, you know, a great entry point, entry strategy to to try to help grow Bitcoin adoption. And from there, you know, we can generally, you know, crack the shell and, you know, go into its permissionless properties, how to actually, you know, be a sovereign individual and, you know, help people recognize that what power they have when they opt out of the existing monetary standard and opt into a Bitcoin standard and something foundational about, Basilica is we only focus on sound custody solutions. And so, you know, I don't advocate for the ETF. You know, we go the extra mile and make sure, you know, we're taking custody the the bare asset itself because it it's not just
[00:10:52] Unknown:
about price appreciation. It it's so much more than that. It is. It's and and I think are you finding obviously, because, you know, self custody is a whole purpose of, Bitcoin, is that you're not just, okay, I'm gonna just give my wealth to the 3rd party again and just entrust the 3rd party, right? And so, are you finding people, because people who I talk to, certainly people who have been hedge fund managers and in, you know, traditional finance, or just people who aren't in finance, and they just are like, well, I wanna be able to call customer service and I wanna be able to I I don't wanna remember 12 words. And what do you mean a metal plate? And what's this little thing? You know, like, are you finding people resisting you? Are they, like, okay. I can do this, like, I'm the bank thing. Like, how are how are people responding to that part?
[00:11:40] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a great question, Val. And, you know, thank you for that. So in, you know, when we're I was building out, you know, our Bitcoin division, if you will. Mhmm. Yeah. We tried to be very cognizant of that. And, I partnered with Unchained, you know, who I believe would be the, you know, premier Bitcoin Financial Services, you know, company in the country. And, you know, we've offered, you know, tiers of custody solutions. So ranging from their standard 2 or 3, you know, everything's a 2 or 3 vault. Right? But Can you explain to people just I and and just in case they don't know what that means, what's multisig? What's 2 of 3? Yeah. Absolutely. So we have a a Volley, you know, which is like a wallet, and then, you know, with 3 total keys, you know, you need 2 of the 3 to send a transaction.
Right? And so those can be, distributed and held by different, you know, parties depending on your comfortability with the asset, the technology, the network. We make sure to take all those those things into account when making a custody recommendation. But we have 3 tiers, to try to meet people where they're at. So the their standard, you know, you hold 2 keys, Unchained has 1. We have the adviser model where Unchained has 1, you have 1, and then I have 1 as the adviser. And then we're also able to offer a multi institutional, multi sig model where on chain has 1 and we can enroll 2 key agents to hold the keys as well. And so that's much more of like, a traditional experience of logging into, like, a Charles Schwab account sort of thing. But the your Bitcoin is still casting a 2 or 3 multisake wallet. So there definitely is, you know, a learning curve and, you know, you know, encourage people to, you know, do their own research. This is something that, you know, you're not gonna learn in an hour and that's okay. You know, we really, you know, resources like yourself, you've done a tremendous job of helping meet people where they're at. And, you know, that's what I I view one of my main roles as well.
And and, you know, making people feel comfortable with the choice they made, the choice we recommend. But it's ultimately finding a solution where they're comfortable and, you know, people are at different tiers and had, you know, clients interested in all all three different custody models.
[00:13:48] Unknown:
Yeah. Totally. I it's super important, I think, you know, for people to take baby steps, and if they do feel more confident with, you know, other folks helping to hold the keys, it's really important. I know I get some questions like, Well, how do you know they're not gonna You know, if you let this party and then Unchained or whoever, you know, and then I only have one key and they need 2 of or 3. How do you know they're not gonna collude and take my Bitcoin? You know? And so there's obviously those questions. And it's just like, well, how do you know Schwab's not gonna just, like, sell your Apple stock and, you know, it's like they have legal responsibilities or businesses. They're not gonna do that. But, so I think there's a lot of layers of comfort that we can offer folks, you know, and meet like you said, meet them where they're at. It's really important. Let's talk about your article, and let's talk about the name of this show and, you know, this is one of the questions you wanted to bring up. And so I'll let you kind of explain things, but I do wanna go to one graph. I have your article pulled up. Yeah.
And because it's really, really you know, I'm a visual learner and it just hit me. I was like, oh, and I noticed exactly when everything started going up with all the the toxicity and stuff. So let's talk about what help everybody understand, you know, why you wanna talk about this and why you wrote this article and what, you know,
[00:14:59] Unknown:
what what's going on. Totally. Totally. So I'll just start with, you know, caveating this as a licensed financial professional. Yeah. Know, none of this is, you know, financial advice, strictly educational purposes only. But, you know, I'm a I'm an aspiring, you know, think boy. I really like to to write and, you know, I feel like I have, you know, learned so much and I really, you know, value all the the work put out by the the Bitcoin community. I wanted to, you know, try to to give back and and, you know, put my thoughts and and leave my mark out there as well. And one of the things I think, you know, I can or I'm unique, you know, decent ability at least is, you know, trying to gear connect dots. And so this piece, specifically was really inspired by, Lynn Alden and, Larry Lapard.
Larry is, you know, famous for, you know, saying fix the money, fix the world. And so I really wanted to, like, dig into. It's like, well, what does that what does that mean? Right? And so kind of the the thesis I came up with, and this was, you know, the part inspired by when Alden is, you know, humanity's fatal flaw is when the technological superior power centralizes the money. Right? I think, you know, we can really trace that back to a lot of the falls of great, you know, human civilizations. I know Brandon quit on that. That Swan does a great job talking about, you know, the 4th turning. And, you know, that's kind of on, like, this 80 year sequence.
I think that kind of builds into, like, Ray Dalio's, like, sovereign debt crisis thesis, which is on a little longer time frame. That's more like a 250 year cycle. And so I just try to, you know, combine, you know, the the thoughts of of what both those guys are saying, and and distill it down into, you know, what I think is a series of pattern recognition. And I'm certainly not a macroeconomic expert or anything. I just try to, you know, identify patterns and and see how they they unfold. And so, you know, in in doing so, there's, like, this, I'm I'm mentioning here, you see on the the screen, you know, very, you know, common phrase, you know, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and and weak men, you know, create bad times. It's like, well, what are, like, the the functions of that actually happening? And, before I get into the the stages, which are, you know, outlined underneath that, I think, you know, just kind of a a perfect, representation of this is in Lynn Alden's book, broken money. She talks about how, you know, Belgian traders from Europe, you know, arrive in Africa and then, you know, they want spices and minerals and resources and stuff, but, you know, they're still on a monetary standard where they're trading, you know, beads and, you know, that is their economic measuring unit is beads. And, I mean, these are are glass beads that the Europeans are able to, you know, manufacture in a factory. And so they're able to, you know, take those manufactured beads, spend them, you know, in Africa. And, you know, before they the Africans, you know, know it, like, they've been robbed of their resources because the economic measuring unit, you know, has not been the same. It it it's been distorted. Right? And so I think, yeah, through that distortion process, you know, we see all these, you know, bad things. And I think, like, our worst instincts as humans kind of come out, you know, through the manipulation process.
[00:18:33] Unknown:
Totally. And and just going back to the 4th turning because we've, got, you know, William Strauss and Neil Howe Howe wrote this back in 97. And so, so I think a lot of us, you know, are interested in, you know, like what you had said. And this is where we're at is this fourth turning. I think we're in debauchery right now where we're about to fall. You know? And it's really scary to me as a mother and thinking about the future and what's gonna happen with our our our children. And, you know, are my children gonna be able to have a life that they wanna, you know, keep moving forward and have kids and bring kids into this world because we're in this kind of free fall. You know? I think society right now is completely disconnected to love. It's disconnected from truth. It's disconnected from harmony. It's disconnected from each other, and it's on purpose because of power and control and greed and manipulation.
You know? And I feel very, I'm nervous. You know? I'm hopeful as a Bitcoiner, but I'm just still a little bit nervous as a human because we're not caught up yet and technology is going way faster, you know, and and it's doing a lot of things that are magic. Right? But it's also doing a lot of things that are, you know, being used against us. You know? And so what would you say to people who are listening about, you know, to the technological gifts that we have and how can we protect ourselves as individuals and as, you know, parents and future generation protectors?
[00:20:06] Unknown:
Totally. No. Absolutely. And, you know, I think you you bring up some fantastic points there. You know, I'm aspiring, you know, parent, you know, myself, and, you know, that certainly is crossing my wife and I's, you know, mind, but, you know, part of what, you know, gives us, you know, confidence in the future is, you know, our faith. You know, we we received the sacrament of marriage and we take that, you know, seriously. And we, you know, believe it's our vocation and our calling, you know, to bring more humans into the world. You know, humans are like a a beautiful thing. And I, you know, I think I will need to defend that, you know, to my last breath. And it's like, that is, you know, what we are are called to do. That's innate with an, you know, any animal species is to reproduce. And I also, you know, take a lot of pride in the fact that, you know, humans are technological beings. And I included this quote from the Naval Ravikant. I would I would love to read that just as a beautiful job. Yeah. Let me put it up. Are you gonna read it there? Do you want me to pull it up?
Yeah. I I could either or if it's, just up a little bit if you want. This one?
[00:21:06] Unknown:
Yeah. Go ahead. You read it out loud. Humans are exceptional. In epistemology,
[00:21:10] Unknown:
humans are the only non Bayesian reasoners. In evolution, humans are the only memetic creatures that we know of. In the theory of computation, humans are the only universal explainers that we know of other than, of course, the computers that we've invented. In fact, the mind blowing thing here is that your mind cannot be blown. There's no idea out there that your mind cannot absorb given the time and effort. So I love it. Right? I was like, I think about this all the time because, you know, I it's it's so good. Right? And, you know, I think this is really our gift, you know, endowed in us by, you know, God or, you know, our creator is that, you know, we are mimetic,
[00:21:55] Unknown:
you know, think What does mimetic mean? I don't know what that means. So, I mean, you know, we
[00:22:00] Unknown:
take information from our environment and we can imitate and and learn from
[00:22:05] Unknown:
Meme it. Okay. K. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mimic meme. Okay.
[00:22:09] Unknown:
You said that, yeah, it's what, you know, meme is derived from, which is awesome. And so, you know, that's that's our human gift and, you know, that that is beautiful. So it's like, and, you know, during like the the course of this article, I tried to explain it where it's like, well, technology is is not the problem. Like, we've always been technological beings. That's, you know, why we're not, you know, living in caves right now. Right. And I use this, very brief, you know, succinct kind of example, in the beginning where, and I'd like to, you know, set the set the tone of the audience here too, while we, you know, go into the the stages, but just how, you know, technology can, you know, improve our our lives. So, I mean, this is very simplistic, but it gets a point across where it's like Roman Mason's created the arch when which enabled the aqueduct, which led to the creation of large cities, which facilitate the spread of ideas in which beautiful art was born. Right? So we can just kinda, like, succinctly see how, you know, technology can can lead to human prospering. And so I don't fundamentally think that, you know, technology is the problem. I think it is kind of the our culture and our moral worldview that ends up, you know, being the the corrupting, you know, factor here.
And getting back to your point of the the stages here, which you have, you know, pulled up on the the screen. So in any civilization, civilizational rise or civilizational story arc. Right? We have the discovery, which I think, you know, some sort of technological advancement that creates an, schism in the existing paradigm. And from there, you know, you're on the rise. Right? You know, the the printing press fire, you know, whatever, you know, you wanna point to. It's like, well, we found it. Now let's go. And so while you're on the the rise, one of the things I think is just important about here is, you know, we have entrepreneurs, you know, people willing to go out and work, you know, create things, is when markets are most clear, right? And the this this bullet point here, the society is prospering as a whole because market signals are clear. There's succinct and functioning feedback loops. Capitalists are using markets to organize capital, deploy capital, and create more capital. So this is kinda like the most pure phase of a civilizational story arc. Right?
From there, you go into the the golden age, you know, which is kinda like the the peak of the arc. Right? And so this is where people in proximity to the rise have, like, the most appreciation for it. And then unfortunately, you know, we'd we'd evolve in into debauchery, which I think you, you know, astutely pointed out where, you know, we could kind of point to where we're at with the United States. And I like to point out here, I think this is where we enter bureaucratic class. Right? So we've kind of enough time has passed, you know, since arise if we wanna use the United States as an example here. You know, maybe that's like the early 1900, you know, roaring twenties, you know, post war, you know, acceleration.
And then, you know, after that, you you kinda get comfortable. Right? You kinda start resting on your laurels. Enough time passes and the people who were a part of building, you know, end up retiring, passing away, whatever. Right? And we've we've left it with, you know, the next, the generation. And once you enter, a bureaucratic or once you, you know, start bringing in a lot of the bureaucratic class, that's where, you know, things tend to fall apart because they're not so much builders as they are regulators. Right?
And then at this point too, you're already past the golden age. So you've amassed, like, this tremendous amount of wealth and power. And while I don't inherently think wealth and power are bad things, I do think they attract the worst type of people. Right? And so you kinda get these skewed, you know, incentives and, you know, people are are seeking out those things without having earned them themselves, like they already exist in society. And, you know, they want to, you know, skip the steps of creating that themselves. So they just try to, you know, get straight to the the wealth or power as quickly as they can. And I think, specifically, in a Fiat society, wealth and power, you know, congregates around the money printer.
Right? And so once, you know, we're in kind of this stage of the cycle, we really lose that sense of a functioning feedback loop, which is, you know, detrimental to society. Right? And once the mechanism of free markets erodes, we're really left guessing as market participants. Right? Because what was once clear signal no longer exists because there's generally a £800 gorilla in the room, the government, you know, choosing winners, picking losers, putting their weight on the scale to, you know, favor, you know, a lobbyist or adding regulation. I saw you tweeting about SpaceX this week, which was, I mean, phenomenal. I can't believe, you know, this self landing skyscraper just got, like, plucked out of the sky. Right? Like, it's insane technological feat. Right? I was like, I'm sure somebody was joking on Twitter, but it feels like something that is true where it's like the hardest part of this was getting it approved by the FAA. Mhmm. I mean, it happens. So it's like, you kinda get a sense of, like, where we're at and how, you know, the the regulators have gotten such, you know, big heads or it's like, we should be so appreciative of this technological advancement, but there's all this regulatory red tape in the way, distorting market signals. Right?
[00:28:15] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's scary, you know, because obviously things are politicized. And like it said, you know, your people are resorting to lawfare because they can't really compete in these markets right now because they're so skewed. So, you know, and I think too about, do you know who Mike Benz is? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so just the censorship industrial complex, which is a whole thing that I've been learning, studying, trying to understand, and obviously subject to as a participant of somebody on social media. And it feels like when you build any type of governmental entity for a certain thing, whether it's for a war, whether it's for a period of time, whatever, it doesn't ever shut down. Like, that entity, that division, that thing, it's like, cool. Well, now you built us. Let's keep funding it. And it's like, well, but we really don't need you anymore.
You know? But those people don't wanna lose their their positions. They've got, you know, comfortable things, so they start making up problems to solve that aren't there. You know? And and it's almost like I think of, like, the, I don't know about you, you know, where you went to college, but, like, the hall monitors. Yeah. You know? Yeah. There's just there's people who wanna go be the hall monitors and, like, I wanna give you a ticket. Go. You know? So it's just this, like, people wanna feel like they're doing their thing. You know? But I'm, like, really? Is that the function that we actually need in our in our culture, in our society, in the world? And so, unfortunately, people are stuck, you know, in these bureaucratic positions, and they're like, cool. I've got a pension. Cool. I've got, you know, security. I've got health insurance. You know? And so I feel like it's a really, how do you unwind the monster, the kraken, the beast that gets built, you know? And, unfortunately, sometimes it has to explode, and that sucks. You know? So I wanna go back to to the part of the you know, we can keep going, obviously, because you've got the fall part here. And it's funny. I'm gonna do a parallel to a conversation I just had before this this interview with you, but I want you to keep going.
Am I sharing it? Yeah. It's sharing. About the fall. Like, what how do we because I feel like we're between debauchery and about to have a fall in our world right now, not just the United States.
[00:30:29] Unknown:
Totally. Totally. So I really think predicates, like, debauchery from the the fall is when market signals are so skewed because, like you said, you know, the the government never gets smaller. Right? So there's just more and more regulation, like, more and more money printing, you know, to to fund, you know, whatever they want. And we can get into that, you know, more. We don't actually vote on these things. But when market signals are skewed and market participants can't identify opportunities from themselves, like, they were they resort to gambling. Right? Because it's like, I don't know if allocating this capital is actually a good decision because the market signals are so skewed. Like, you know, I can't I can't make sense of it. And I think this is such an important thing, aspect of the money printer. Right? If you just think of money as an economic measuring stick. Right?
The more units that enter the system, it, you know, money and energy go into everything. Right? So the the larger you you make the denominator, the harder it is to, you know, identify how valuable the numerator really is. And so you ended up just taking your capital and gambling with it. That's why, you know, I don't think there's not a correlation between the rise in sports gambling, you know, predominantly in America. The rise of shit coinery. Right? Because you resort to these get rich quick schemes because you kinda already feel behind the 8 ball. Yep. You that you've gotten robbed and or disadvantaged and some sort of way where you just, like, need to take your capital and cycle black, you know, put it on black and and see what happens. Right?
Because I can't make that decision for myself because the market is such a mess. Because the 800 pound gorilla in the room has gotten in the way. And at that point, you know, unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot of of turning back from that and you end up, you know, moving into the the fall category. Right? And at this point, like, it it's a total facade. Right? If you can't clearly identify market signals, you're like, you're living in facade stitched together by printed money. Right? And ultimately, the the root rooster comes comes home to roost, like, whatever that and that's saying is, you know, it's like, you know, there are there are real consequences to these decisions.
[00:32:57] Unknown:
Well, there are for some and not for others in this period of time. Like, we're looking at who what was the the bank that just got the 3,000,000,000 I think it was $3,000,000,000 fine, which is nothing. It's pennies, for for money laundering drugs and human trafficking, and they didn't nobody got prosecuted. There were no consequences to the, to this. Was it TD?
[00:33:20] Unknown:
Do you know what I'm talking about? What you're referencing. Yeah. I I can't remember the specifics.
[00:33:24] Unknown:
I don't want to say the wrong name and get the- Yeah, I'm right. That would be bad. But it was a huge, huge, huge, huge bank and, they just got like a slap on the wrist you know, for this terrible behavior. And so oh, so I'm not sharing. Hold on. I thought I turned it back on. Yeah, they just got a slap on the wrist, you know? And so it's like you're looking at people who are promoting Freedom Technologies, right? We've got the samurai devs who are facing big problems because they wrote some code so that people could have privacy with their money. This is an issue and I think people listening, you know, who don't understand why it's so important to have, you know, property rights and privacy, you know, think about cash, right? Like, we want to be able to have some cash. Like, if all the power goes out in the whole wide world, like we saw, you know, what happened in North Carolina, like, you're not trading Bitcoin on your phone. You don't have no Internet. You've got no electricity.
So to have a cashless society is very dangerous, I think. You know, as much as we all think, Oh, I wanna be on a Bitcoin standard, yes, to some degree, but we need to have some form of physical money, you know, to transact with each other in case of, you know, radical emergencies like this. And so, can you imagine if you weren't able to have that private stash of cash and that was the only thing you could do was trade this? And, you know, so it's important to have privacy, it's important to have cash, it's important to have not the government knowing every little thing that you do because if all of a sudden they determine that everybody has to believe in Bob the Builder as God and you're not allowed to be Catholic anymore you know, and they're gonna come after you like they do in certain countries and, you know, persecute you because of your religious beliefs, they'll shut your money system down, you know? And so to me, like, people listening have to understand why having the ability to have private money, whether it's cash, whether it's Bitcoin, whether it's gold or diamonds or whatever you might have of value can protect you from different administrations coming in and out throughout the course of history and certainly throughout the course of your children's lives and their children's lives. And so Bitcoin offers one of the solutions. It's not the only thing in the world forever, but it can give us an opportunity to have some separation of, you know, money from state so that we're not going to get censored and that we're not going to lose the ability to feed our families, you know, because government decided they don't like what you believe in or what you said or whatever it might be. And so, unfortunately, we're starting to see that happen right now.
You know, obviously, you know, a couple of years ago, the trucker protest, you know, the whole thing, COVID, all these things, and it's just very, very scary, I think, for people to start to wake up to how important it is to understand the money that they're using and the system that they're voting for when they use fiat. And the system that they're voting for when they use fiat. You know? And I think that's one thing people don't connect the dots because every time you use your credit card, every time you play in the game of that fiat system, you could just you're giving them a a high five. Like, keep going. Keep keep the system alive. Like, I'm voting for violence. I'm voting for censorship. I'm voting for, financial and and mental slavery.
Let's talk about, later in the article, you know, we you let me see. I don't know how far down was it with the art the we talk we I don't wanna go over all the properties of Bitcoin because Bitcoin's super obviously, but I wanna get this is the graph that was really important to me. Let's go to hold on. Make sure that it's showing. View tab, wake up tab. There we go. Okay. This. So can you explain this and why, you know, why do you think this has gone on because we've gone on to a fiat standard. And I wanna see if I can make this bigger for people. Hold on. Can I go Oh, yay? Good. Look at that. Hold on. Yeah.
The death of despair and its components. What does this mean, Wyatt? I'm so sad looking at this.
[00:37:36] Unknown:
No. Absolutely. This is a very, you know, depressing graph. I don't think there's any other, you know, way around it. I was actually, really disappointed and kind of pissed off. I can only find, a graph that went to 2017, so that doesn't even include, you know, COVID. I have to imagine these numbers are even worse Yeah. Unfortunately. Anything after this, I find it was only race based. That wasn't like the the point I was trying to get across. So I settled with the the older, data here. And so this was done by a senate study, commissioned by the, you know, the US senate. And so, you know, they list the 3 main categories of deaths as far as suicide, alcohol related, and drug related. And then, you know, we have the that top line being like the overall debts. And so the idea behind this is, like, if, you know, there are deaths related to, you know, one of these 3, you know, categories, that's not, you know, like somebody dying of of old age. Right? That is, you know, death created or or warranted or, facilitated through artificial, means. Right? And so, you know, these people, you know, that, unfortunately, you know, feel like they, you know, they've lost purpose, they don't have a purpose, so they're, they're turning towards things that, you know, ultimately hurt them and, you know, we'll, we'll kill them in the long term, which is extremely sad because, you know, we started this conversation about, you know, how beautiful humanity is and how we have such, you know, great gifts and how we were, you know, created in the image and likeness of of God. And, you know, this was not, you know, our intention, you know, to live out on earth is to be, you know, suffering these consequences.
And I you know, fullheartedly believe this is a symptom of fiat money. Right? And it really has to do with just, you know, the the vast amounts of of money printing. And I think it's particularly wicked and and evil stealing from people through inflation because they have no sense of how they are being stolen from. Like, it happens, you know, behind closed doors. It happens without, you know, saying it happens slowly over time. You know, it's like, you know, particularly, you know, post COVID, you know, there's been a lot of stuff on, you know, Twitter and, you know, various social media. It's like, you know, my, you know, car to groceries cost, you know, $20, you know, pre, you know, explosion of money printing and, you know, post explosion of money printing, you know, around COVID, you know, like, cost, you know, 40, $50. But, obviously, you know, most people working, you know, some sort of w two, you know, salary, you know, their their pay hasn't hasn't kept up. And I think this really just creates, like, this sort of societal rot. Right? And this is, you know, referencing back to the stages. So, like, this is the facade. Right? How can we keep, like, the music going without people, you know, recognizing it? And, you know, there's a thought in in Casey and Economics, you know, that was widely propagated for over 20 years now. I'd say probably almost all of the 21st century is that, you know, inflation's been tamed. You know, it's been defeated. You know, it doesn't even exist anymore. Like, we have our us as central planners. Right? And it's like we're so good. We were able to just rid this of the world, which, you know, obviously isn't the the case. And, you know, as Bitcoiners, you know, we are, you know, acutely aware of that. But, I don't think, you know, most people are. And it's very sad because, like, I think when you're faced with, you know, just trying to, you know, put myself in, you know, the the shoes of somebody who's struggling to, you know, make do if you're just getting constantly robbed from on top of, you know, the the stressors of an everyday life. Right? You know, I think a lot of the deterioration of the the family was actually more manufactured than than not, you know, bringing in, you know, forcing families to have, you know, 2, you know, both parents, you know, working, taking a parent out of the home, you know, into the workforce, just to make ends meet.
And then, on top of it, you have both parents, you know, working and they're not making ends meet. It's like, it creates, like, this weird, social environment where it's like, it feels like everybody's on edge. They know something's wrong. Like, there's strife and and violence and, you know, disorder and and people are frustrated, but they can't point to why. And it's like, I think that makes people even more upset is they can't articulate. It's like why they feel this way, why society is degrading around them. And so people, unfortunately, as this graph shows, turn to, you know, things to try to to numb the pain, which ultimately end up, you know, hurting them even more.
[00:42:29] Unknown:
Yeah. Totally. I think, you know, said bunny, have you read his book? I haven't, but I have listened to quite a few of his interviews on podcast. I love Seb. He's incredible. And, you know, he talks a lot about these points you're bringing up and just the difference between, you know, acute anxiety and generalized anxiety and generalized, you know, because you sense like you just said, you can sense it in your bones. You sense it in your soul. Something's wrong, but you don't understand exactly what. And it's like you're constantly in the scarcity mindset. You know, if you're doing this thing and I'm trying to raise kids and this and that and you're stressed out and your cortisol levels are really high, you know, and so you're in fear a lot. And so fear is not, a healthy vibration to be in a lot. It's a useful one. We need to have fear as humans, right? If the tiger is chasing you, like, you should be afraid so that your, you know, parasympathetic system shuts down and your sympathetic gets engaged and you go run and get away. It's important, you know, so fear is not a bad thing, but you shouldn't be in that state all the time. It causes many, many health issues, you know, it causes, obviously, relationship issues. And, I think it sucks. It's by design, you know, to keep people on, you know, the treadmill and the hamster wheel and you nailed it too. Just they don't understand that they're actually being stolen from. Nobody voted for these central planners. Nobody voted to go print 40% during COVID of the money supply. Nobody keeps voting to expand, expand, expand, you know? And so because it's done this way behind the scenes, like you said, people aren't and you don't see the the effects for, you know, 12 to 18 months down the road of when these things start happening. So it's not just like, oh, all of a sudden, they raised interest rates or lowered interest rates or they did all this. It's like you're going to have these longer term effects. And so people don't connect the dots.
You know, it's one thing if a politician said, I'm gonna raise all of your taxes up to, you know, 60% this year. Are you gonna vote for them? No. Everyone's gonna be like, I don't like you. Go away. But that's what they're doing when they're printing this money because what they're doing is taking away your purchasing power. Even though you think, like, look, my house went up in value, it didn't go up in the ability for you to have the same purchasing power that you did 5 years, 10 years, 20 years ago, you know. And so when people really, they get so excited and they think, oh, you know, everything went up. And it's like everything went up except your income levels, you know. And and so it's like you're not you're not as powerful as you were as a person and now you've got to have these 2 earner homes. But, you know, you're obviously, like you said, you're a young family in training, right? You guys want to grow and have children. Like, what's it like for you, Wyatt, thinking, you know, like, is are you hoping that, you know, your wife would get to stay home with the kids and you get to do the thing that the dads do? Like, is that even a possibility in this generation because of the the way that the Fiat system is poisoning our dreams in the for the future?
[00:45:40] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a great question, Val. And, you know, some of my wife and I, you know, talk about a a lot and and check-in. And, you know, I think if we didn't have our faith and we didn't have Bitcoin to be, you know, totally different story, right? Because, you know, you know, Catholicism, you know, we have, you know, sacraments that, you know, we, you know, friendly believe in and, you know, marriages, you know, one of those where, you know, husband and wife become, you know, one flesh and my role and my vocation as the husband is to be the head of the family and my wife's role and vocation as the wife is to be, you know, the body of the family. And so my vocation responsibilities is provide and protect.
Her vocation responsibility is to take care of the home and raise the the children in the faith. And, you know, it's like, we wholeheartedly, you know, believe that. Right? And it's like, yeah, we're we're Catholic and, you know, that's part of our, you know, religious teachings, but it's like, that is also something I think you're pretty tried and true in, you know, humanity, you know, in general. Right? Like, I, as a man, and you have a woman, we have different chemicals literally flowing through our blood that, you know, drive us to, you know, feel different things. Right? And so it's like, I'll hold a baby and, you know, think it's cute. My wife holds a baby and, you know, feels a totally different, you know, connection to it because, you know, we're different biological, you know, beings. Right?
And so that gives us a ton of confidence and and faith where it's like, I know waking up every morning is like, what my responsibilities are. And then, you know, also, you know, I don't think I would be able to, you know, our hopes is we're we're trying to have a kid by the time, you know, we conceive and, you know, the baby's born. Our hope is that, you know, my wife will be able to, you know, stay home and raise our family. And then, you know, we'll be, you know, and we have some some friends that are our church that do a great job of, you know, describing it where it's like, you know, if we're not like a single income family, right? We might be like the one, you know, single earner, but, you know, multiple streams of income. Right? So I take, you know, my role as an entrepreneur very seriously because, you know, when you go out and try to, you know, create value in the world, like, you are, you know, somewhat uncapped on, like, what you're able to do because you're taking the risk to, you know, go out and and build something yourself. Whereas at a, you know, if I was just working a w two job, I would feel, you know, much less confident that I would be able to, you know, take care of my family on, you know, just a single income source. So and then ultimately, you know, we have, you know, decided to, you know, account on a Bitcoin standard, you know, with a deflationary savings technology as opposed to a Fiat standard that, like, we've touched on is, you know, constantly being eroded under our feet. So I think it's, you know, our faith and Bitcoin and, you know, taking the risk to, you know, start a company and being entrepreneurs. Like, these are all tools, you know, available to everybody to embrace. It's just, are you willing to sacrifice? Are you willing to do the work? You know, are you willing to learn about a different monetary system and and opt into that and you kinda retrain your brain? So it it's really the combination of those things that I think, you know, the world we wanna live in is gonna be possible.
[00:48:56] Unknown:
And, you know, and you mentioned something, obviously, there's a lot of folks who are just it's interesting. My friend, Heather, posted something. I think it was yesterday. She said, Entrepreneurs are born. And in my experience meeting people who are W-two people versus entrepreneurs, they're different breeds of people. And I would say the qualities and characteristics, and they're both wonderful groups of humans, but there are certain people who are not entrepreneurs. It would mess up their brains. Like, my mom is a great example. I love you, mom. The idea of her being an entrepreneur, she would have a nervous breakdown and forget about it. Right? And so, obviously, you know, a lot of women aren't necessarily up. There are a lot of great women entrepreneurs. That's for sure. But there are certain men too who is just like, let me go do my my task because I'm really good at building or I'm really good at x, y, or z, you know, but, like, running the connected dots of being an entrepreneur is like, it's not happening for some people. And being an entrepreneur, like, you're an octopus, you know, until you can build out teams where you get specialized folks, it's like you're the team and then you can learn how to grow your teams. And so some people are just completely not cut out for that. So what would you say to folks who are happily working in their engineering job or happily working as a nurse or happily working as a doctor, you know, on their W2, you know, journey? Like, how would you help them? And this is not financial advice.
What advice would you maybe say to folks like that who are, you know, in that that position?
[00:50:37] Unknown:
Totally. No. I I do think you're you're right. But, ultimately, everything is a a series of of trade offs at the end of the day. Right? So it's like, you know, if you don't think you possess those skills, you know, I would, you know, challenge you on that for for 1, you know, a lot of people like their w two job just because, you know, it's it's comfortable and, you know, it's predictable, which are all good things. And there's certainly things I wish I, you know, had sometimes, don't get me wrong, but I think, you know, kind of touching back on the technology point, you know, there's so many tools and resources out there nowadays where it's like, you might be uncomfortable at first, but, you know, I would say, you know, anybody is capable of tapping into these and, you know, I try to encourage people too. It's like when they think of entrepreneurship, it's like, oh, I need to invent something new. I need to be, you know, Elon Musk. You know, it's like there's so many different types of, you know, businesses, you can do and there's so many different ways to to make money. It's just like I would just try to, you know, deduce it to like the most simple form. It's like, what can you do to add value to somebody else? And that could already be something that exists. You know, it's like you can, you know just because there's one account doesn't mean there needs to be there shouldn't be 3 accountants. Right? Like, there's always more, you know, ways to to add value. And then, you know, I think a lot of it has to do, you know, with with Bitcoin too. Even if, you know, you really don't feel comfortable, you know, leaving w two, you know, you think you're you're wired to be a part of it. You know, that's that's fine. But then, you know, it's like using my, situation, you know, specifically, that means, you know, I'd be sacrificing potentially on my children's future and, you know, removing the mother from the home and, you know, making her, you know, go out in the workplace. So we, you know, we both had w two income. So it's like, well, I'd I'm trading off my comfortability of a predictable, you know, income, but also, you know, sacrificing the the potential of, you know, my my children and my my household. So it's like that frankly isn't, you know, a trade I'm I'm willing to make. Maybe some people are. I'm not dogging on them for that. I'm just, you know, trying to be, you know, transparent about, you know, the decision, you know, being made. And then, you know, I think too is a huge aspect that, you know, not a lot of people, especially new to Bitcoin grasp is that, you know, it is, you know, a savings technology, you know, the river has this great graphic I'm thinking of where it's like the price of a home denominated in Bitcoin and then denominated in fiat and to your point earlier. Oh, it's fine. Yeah. Exactly. You know, that home's getting cheaper in Bitcoin terms. So it's like then, you know, I would say, like, the the third, you know, aspect of this is like, okay. Well, if you're firmly staying in your w two position, I would at least encourage you to to learn about Bitcoin and then, you know, learn about accounting your life in a a new and different monetary system that is based in a savings technology.
[00:53:29] Unknown:
I love it. I love it. I know. I think, you know, I'm a visual learner, so I always like graphs or charts or before and after. If you saved in Bitcoin instead of saving in, you know, dollars or whatever, like, you would have this much purchasing power if you did this over 5 years, you know, whatever. And so, I think it's, you know, we're all different types. You know, there's 5 learning styles. So it's like, what's your learning style? And it's important to, like, as an educator, somebody who's you know, we're all obsessed with, you know, adoption and hyper Bitcoinization. It's important for us to, like, use tools available to us to help, you know, become better, more effective communicators. I think AI is such an important tool now, too. And I think we talk about number go up, we talk about freedom go up, we talk about love go up, peace go up, all of it, right? And we think about humanity go up.
And so, collectively, you're saying humanity's fatal flaw and so it's like AI is just a tool, just like Bitcoin is a tool. Like, last night, I was I'm I'm a total nerd. So instead of Netflix, I watch YouTube videos about AI crap. And it's mind blowing, you know, or marketing or whatever. I just love learning and I'm, like, just so cool because if you can get on YouTube because it's free, if you have an Internet connection, you can learn anything at this point. You know? And, like, just last night, I'm learning about, you know, these bots that people are building. You know? And she's like, you can build a whole blog business in using this thing. And she's like, you do this, you create an RSS feed, then you do chat GPT, you tell it to do this thing, and then you post it over here. And every time this thing gets post updated, it's gonna go here and regurgitate your stuff with your words, your brand, your, you know, stuff, and you can make a picture.
And I'm like, that's cool. Yeah. Like, anybody can go learn these things if you can watch a video and follow along and type in a couple of things. You don't need to be a coder. You don't need to be a 1,000,000, you know, billionaire financial genius, but, like, you can up level your skills with the technology that's out there that's very ridiculously affordable. Like, you can use chatgpt for free. Not that I'm in love with, you know, Sam Altman at this moment, but I am concerned about his privacy practices and security. I really am a little concerned, with all of the AI, not just him in general.
But, like, if we decide that we wanna go up level our skills in the world, it's like at our anybody can go do it. There's no excuse not to. And so do you think, like, because the younger generation has been gifted with this poopy inheritance of fiat and inflation and short term thinking and instant gratification, You know, I think about the way that any of our minds and especially young people's minds are being programmed with instant gratification on the social media and the likes. It's like, do you feel like the younger generation is at a disadvantage because they have to do so much reprogramming to get on this proof of work, you know, low time preference, mindset and lifestyle because they have to unprogram themselves from, you know, maybe a decade or so if, you know, of of being programmed in the social media world that they're in.
[00:56:53] Unknown:
Yeah. No. It is a great question. I think, like, every generation feels like they got it worse. Right? You know? Sure. I think, yeah, there's kinda like some, you know, innate within us as humans. But, you know, ultimately, it's like, yeah, I think that that is a good point. I do, you know, worry about, like, some long term, you know, effects of, you know, social media on a, you know, young brain. And, but at the same time, you know, I think, like, their benefit is they were raised in, you know, kind of digital, you know, environment. Right. And they're kind of able to, you know, pick up on, you know, stuff, you know, quicker than than some of the the older generations. And you know what? I would really actually like to see, you know, what I advocate, you know, and, you know, I think, you know, the the faith has really helped me identify too is that, you know, we are creatures born at different times in the different environments. But the fact, you know, we're still, you know, endowed with individual agency by our creator. Right? That is in a negative that every human, you know, has. Right? So I just, you know, try to encourage people, you know, whatever, you know, age or generation they are to to lean into that. Right? I think, you know, a lot of the the current movement I, you know, associate a lot of this with wokeness is it tries to remove your individual agency and, you know, teach you to be, you know, a victim. And I, you know, just honestly don't believe that's the case. And I think, you know, anybody is capable, you know, to that, and then Duval quotes. Like, we are, you know, phenomenal, you know, species. We have all these these great gifts that, you know, everybody is born with and that, you know, they have the the right to. And so I would just encourage people to to lean into that, you know, and and to take matters, you know, into their own hands, because we can't, you know, and that's awesome. That's powerful.
[00:58:40] Unknown:
It is powerful. And especially, you know, in places where we do have the freedom to do so, you know, in some places, you don't have the freedom to be as expressive as you want or as curious as you want and follow different threads of your imagination and skills. Like, you're just like, nope. This is your life forever. You have to go do this factory. You have to go dig in a mine until, you know, you peel over. I know it's it's the top of the hour. How much time do you have? I want to respect your time. Yeah. No, I can keep going. I'm not done with you yet. Why?
Again, coming back to the wokeism that I think, unfortunately, people are getting, polluted with right now, and it's unfortunate, you know, because I think we've got a sense of entitlement, you know, and that's, I think, where this wokeism stuff is coming from. I used to be very far left ish, you know, because I used to think like, Oh, we wanna include everybody and we want equal rights and fairness and, you know, we don't wanna have people telling us what to do and my body, whatever it is, you know? I used to really be very much in that camp, but I feel like it's gotten so ridiculous, you know, and it's just like everybody just wants a handout, You know, they don't wanna show up and do the work. They don't wanna be uncomfortable. They don't wanna take time and, you know, learn something and take the time to develop a craft or, you know, you know, we think it just as an example, music, Right? It's like in in the old days, you took time, you learned chords, you learned the thing. It took, you know, a while to learn something, and then it took a while to get in a studio, and then you would record on a tape, and you'd have to go slice the tape. And it was like it was a process. And now I can say make me a hip hop song that sounds like Kanye singing like a clown, like Pokemon or something. And then all of a sudden you get a song and you're like, I made that. And I'm like, no. You didn't.
Yeah. The guys who made the computer code did. Okay? You know? And so so I think it's like we've got, like, an interesting gift that it's like, cool. Let's go use these tools, but it's also, like, let's remember that it's, like, okay. What who made the tools and should I be maybe focusing my direction and being a toolmaker, you know, and learning how to do that or taking those tools and doing something even more exponentially interesting with them and not just, you know I mean, it's fun to make memes and it's fun to make all these little things, but it's like, what are you doing to better yourself and humanity with the technology that exists, you know, that's in front of us?
Because I think we're gonna go through, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but we're going to go through a lot of displacement because the machines keep coming in, and it's good. Why would you have a human do something that a machine can do 10 times, 100 times faster and better, and they can do it 24 hours a day? You know? Like, let's free up some of that human capital, that mind capital, that heart capital, that creativity. But it's like there's going to be this population of people who haven't been trained yet and haven't been upskilled into the next level and they're going to be, like, I think, mentally lost a little bit. Right? So it's like there's people who are used to, Oh, I was so used to my position and in my income. Like, how do they support their family now that they've been laid off because robots are taking over? And that's been going on for a long time since, you know but but I think it's gonna go a lot faster because of AI and all this integration, you know? You don't need to hire a copywriter anymore, You know? You don't need to hire all these people to do the things that would cost a lot of money and time. So it's like, where does all this talent get to go? And I know a lot of people argue about universal basic income, you know, so that everybody can at least but that to me is I don't I don't know. I don't feel like that's gonna be the solution. Like, I want free markets.
I want people to work, because I think your human spirit diminishes when you're not contributing. Like, you get apathetic, you get lazy mentally, you get lazy physically and spiritually, and so it's like we're designed to do things. You know? We're designed to procreate. We're designed to create. And so what what would you say to, like, people who might be in a transition period, you know, in in the next wave of how can how can they participate in the future.
[01:03:16] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. I love what you just said. I I I kinda agree more. You know, it it's it's it's easy to be a pessimist. Right? And it's like, I was like, oh, woe is me or whatever it may be. But, you know, ultimately, I think, you know, technology creates opportunity. Right? And it's like, there used to be a lot of switchboard operators. You know, it's it's like, you know, literally plugging in, like, a full line and be like a different line to, you know, connect the call. And I, know what year the last one of them was employed, but the point of the story is that the economy expanded, you know, through technology to, you know, create new jobs in in different fields. And so I think that will continue happening. And, you know, I just you would reference back to that, you know, Nivol quotes. Like, there's nothing, you know, given the time and and resources that, you know, we can't comprehend. It might be difficult. It might require sacrifice.
But ultimately, you know, to that same vein, like you were saying, it's never been easier to get access and learn about AI and marketing because we have YouTube. And, you know, YouTube wasn't around. And so it's like, I really, you know, it it don't get me wrong. It's it's easy to get lost in the noise. I'm certainly, you know, guilty of that or it's like, wow, everything's gone to shit, you know, whatever it may be. But, you know, I'm a I'm trying to, you know, be a techno optimist. I consider myself a a a patriot and, you know, it's like onward. You know? That's one of the reasons, like, I'm so excited, you know, for Bitcoin is, like, we've been given, you know, this gift, and and Sailor has this great quote that I love where it's like, Satoshi found a way, create a way and then, like, gave it away. It's it's something, you know, along those lines. And so it was just like, that's something, you know, in 2006, like, we didn't even know about and even fast forward to 2024, you know, coming up on the white paper day here in about a couple weeks, you know, it's like, we have this whole new opportunity to to explore and build on. And so I just, you know, try to embrace those opportunities, you know, try to, you know, step back from the noise, touch grass, you know, embrace big picture and and see how you can exploit opportunities. You know, I mentioned in the the piece where, you know, technology creates a schism in the existing paradigm.
Mhmm. What are you gonna do as a human with individual agency to take advantage of said opportunity? Right? Totally. So I really encourage, you know, people to just try to, you know, flip the script and and think about it, you know, a little differently because, you know, I think especially for for young people, you know, to your point, you know, they might be in, you know, this, the state of, you know, despair. So, you know, for simplicity's sake, let's say, like, the majority of, you know, 9th graders fall into this opportunity. You know, they they think, you know, they've been wronged and, you know, in a lot of ways they have. But, you know, if you're willing to, you know, rise above that and and take, you know, your life into your own hands, like, those people are gonna be extremely easy to be in the free market because they've already waived the white flag. So it's like you just need to go out and create. And, yeah, it's it's hard. Like, that's the point. You know, it was easy. Everybody would do it. But, I think it would be that much easier for for people to to rise above if their peers are, you know, in this woe is me state.
[01:06:35] Unknown:
Yeah, I know. I think, unfortunately, you get into that group think, you know, around people who are experiencing pain and you have, you know, trauma bonding and all of this and people, join forces and then they get mad at, you know, they shake a stick at the system. So instead of just being like, You're the first point of action in your own life. You're it. Like, no one's coming to save you. And so one of my teachers, he's just like, you know, we're all just walking around with our umbilical cords out looking for our mommy, you know, to take care of us, you know? And so, that mentality, it's like, at some point, you get to grow up and be the mommy or the daddy. And so, that's called adulthood and maturity. And so, you know, and I'm not saying that you need to all grow up super fast and not enjoy your youth and be playful and fun, but that a lot of people who are adults, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, it doesn't matter, like they haven't gotten over that part with that umbilical cord out because they want someone else to fix things, they want someone else to take care of them, etcetera. And so, I know we all go through phases of that. I've been that way. I'm not, like, some perfect, oh, I'm I'm Jesus or I'm Buddha or I'm, you know, I'm not. I'm just a I'm a dumb human.
You know? But but I feel like, you know, the more that we perpetuate, you know, someone else is gonna come save you and you're a victim versus you're you're it. You and your creator are rocking together on this planet. You know? That's kinda how you can, I think, move through life a lot more successfully with less stress? You know? What what do you say? Like, you remember the dockworkers struck a couple like, 2 weeks ago? I mean, obviously, that was gonna cost tons of money for the world, not just our country. But, you know, and I think I recall one of their demands was they don't wanna have the machines take their jobs.
And it was like, they're running a business. Of course, the machines are gonna take your jobs. That's like saying I'm gonna do all my invoicing on paper, you know, and I'm gonna nail everything by a pigeon. Yeah, dude. Your job's getting taken. Sorry, but that's what's happening. So what are you gonna do for your life? You know? Like, you can't slow the progress train down. It's just like, you know, oh, no. There's cars. Well, no. We need to keep everything in horse and buggy. We want forever. No. Okay. Now you used to change the shoes on the horses. Like, okay. Now you're gonna go learn how to do tires. You know? Like, get over like, that's where I think people need to get into that position of, like, this is cool. What else can I go play with and do, you know, and not feel like, you know, it's tough? I mean, change, you know, a lot of the people I work with and clients and workshops and stuff I do, it's like change is tough. It's the scariest, hardest thing, especially, you know, if it comes quickly and it wasn't your choice.
Yep. You know, if it wasn't your choice, it's difficult. People resist. They cling on and they're like, no. And so, you know, empathy, of course, is important in love and compassion for people who are going through these things, but it's like there's so many tools out there to explore and play with, you know, and have some fun and get creative with, you know, your next chapter of life. Let's talk about a chapter of yours, Wyatt. Let's call let's talk about the space chapter. I don't know if we've got any space members watching it. Go Denver. Go get coincidental. Tell tell everybody about the Denver space. And you and the team have been so remarkable that watching the journey of you guys getting this, I'm so impressed and grateful to to, you know, get to see it flourish and participate in my little tiny way.
[01:10:27] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. Thank you, Valerie. It it this has been and this space, I think, is, like, probably one of the most important, you know, projects I'll I'll work on in in my career. You know, it's just like it is for sure, a labor of of love. You know, I started a little bit over, a year ago, you know, born out of BitDevs. And, like, the whole point was like, well, how can we go space? Thanks, Rob. Yay. Yeah. How can we, you know, bring the community, the Bitcoin community together, you know, more intentionally? You know, in Denver, I think, you know, Denver is like we we joke where it's like the the greater front range, like, probably has, like, a very high Cypherpunk to MPC ratio.
[01:11:11] Unknown:
Right? Is there a number like, is that a word we can we should come up with, like, a c p n t c? I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, go.
[01:11:22] Unknown:
Yeah. It's so there's just a a tremendous amount of talent here. I am, like, consistently blown away by the the talent. You know, our our small humble group has, you know, attracted and, you know, it makes me just wanna work that much harder. And so this, you know, is like a a Bitcoin Citadel. Right? So it's very similar to Bitcoin Park or Commons, and those folks have been, you know, great helping us out and and giving us advice and, you know, along the way. But they took a little bit more of a, you know, top down approach with, like, some sort of investor or owner where, you know, the the space is ground up and it's community driven, you know, it's member operated. So, you know, we just came together and and started, you know, crowdfunding, you know, it's like, can we make this, you know, dream become a reality with the, you know, resources and and talent in in our community here locally? And it has just been so rewarding to see. And, yeah, I'm of the belief, you know, where it's like, you create your own luck through hard work and, you know, as, you know, that would that would have it. You know, we were able to move into a a beautiful building and and really see the the mission of the space, you know, come to life here. And so we just moved in here in, 101, October 1, and it's been phenomenal. Vibes are, you know, extremely high. Everybody's chipping in and and contributing. Val, you're a you're a huge part of that. You don't give yourself, enough credit. But, it it really just I think it was a show, like, what individuals can do when when they're motivated and they have something, you know, they mutually care about. And because, you know, it's a it's a team effort. It's like no one person, you know, could do all this by ourselves. So it's like utilizing the different skill sets of our our members and your volunteers Yeah. To make it all happen. And so we're really trying to, you know, make this a mission. You know, our mission embodies a lot of the values of Bitcoin, you know, individual agency, you know, privacy.
We're trying to open source as as much of what we've put together as possible. You know, our bylaws, you're a nonprofit. So how do you you file one of those? Because we wanna make the next Citadel that much easier to to open. So it's truly something special. I cannot be more excited to to do a little part of it, and be a little part of it myself. But, extremely bullish on the space. If you haven't heard of it, check out our socials. Valerie's got the website up here. It's a great project. Yeah. Let me put it up here. Captions. Hold on. Oh, yeah. That's a visual of the website. So it's denver.space
[01:13:52] Unknown:
for everybody listening if you can't see what's on the screen. I know it's super cool. And, I mean, this is what I love so much, too, again, about our friends and family and Bitcoiners. You know, it's like we wanna open source everything. We want everybody to, like, Here's the playbook. Okay, add to it. Do what you want. Okay, let's talk about what worked, what didn't. Okay, you're in this environment with these types of people. This works better here. Okay, let's experiment. So it's not like, oh, we're so closed doors and everything's like, oh, we don't want anybody to know. It's like, we want Bitcoin to succeed and thrive, you know, because it's love. And, I mean, I think Bitcoin is love. And it's one form of love. And the more love, the better. Right? What kind of world do we wanna live in? We wanna live in a world of love.
But I think it's super cool because we're we're we're sharers, you know, but and we're competitive with ourselves. It's like, how can we make it better? It's not a zero sum game of you when I lose, I you know, etcetera. So it's like, it really is this beautiful win win, culture and and subculture. And I think that's what's so cool is, like, when people show up together physically, it's intimidating. You know, I was just doing this interview with Ben, Ben Worman before this and he was asking me about women, right? And we talk a lot about, you know, there's not as many women, obviously, as men in, the Bitcoin space or in many spaces for that matter, you know, finance and whatnot.
And so, but Bitcoin is something that's ubiquitous. Like, everybody needs to use If you're a mom, it's important to know what Bitcoin is for your family. To teach your children fiscal responsibility and financial literacy is very, very important. It's not just, okay, men get to do all this stuff and women are over here and okay, honey. Because, unfortunately, as you know, we're still not there yet in this utopia, but there are situations where women have to, escape a domestic violence situation or something. And so having Bitcoin and the understanding of how to use it safely so that you don't get attacked because you're saving to try to escape, it's important that women take, you know, ownership of their financial sovereignty as well, even in a marriage and a partnership, you know, because, God forbid, you know, something goes sideways, you know, and so we really wanna make sure people understand about sound money. And so building the Denver space and having an opportunity for families to come and having an opportunity for kids and after school programs and women and whoever, you know, to show up, it's very satisfying to be in a room with people versus a Zoom call versus just, you know, a Discord space or a Telegram space that feels impersonal and kind of scary, you know? And so I'm so impressed with you guys, like, making that happen.
Like, it's like, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to see all the before and afters of people's lives because they got to go to the the space in Denver that you guys built. Like, imagine the possibilities of the before and after transformation. Oh, Oh, it's gonna be crazy. And we're just getting started, which is a beautiful part. Yeah. I mean, it it is. I'm, like, I'm, like, oh, I'm gonna cry. And I know the space is, like, right near a school, you know, and you think about, like, people thinking about new opportunities to become developers or to become entrepreneurs and all the little things that you can do in that these four walls. These gorgeous they're gorgeous, by the way. Are you in like, I saw the the sliding door. Are you there? I am in this space. Yeah.
Oh, well, like, cool. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's so neat. And I'm I just it's it's hope, you know? Like, when you walk in, you feel hopeful. Like, it feels like it's a hopeful place, a hopeful space. So congrats. I mean, what's what's on the agenda? Tell everybody what's happening. Like, give them a a heads up of what's happening at the Denver space in the near future.
[01:17:49] Unknown:
Absolutely. So we're starting to roll out a bunch of events. Our opening week will start, November 14th with, one of our you know, we we can't do this alone. We have, 4 founding corporate sponsors, Unchained, Casa, FETI, and Compass Mining. Yeah. We did. Yep. This is our calendars, our public, event calendar. I think our most, recent event coming up is I'm actually hosting event on 10/24 with Matt Dines of Build Asset Management and Rocky Wold of Unchained. We're talking about the financialization of Bitcoin. I think that's gonna be really cool event meant to, you know, explain how the best of TradFi is coming to Bitcoin, how we can deepen Bitcoin capital markets. But, the fun space stuff, it will be coming, we'll be doing our opening, week in about mid November. We're kicking that off with, Compass Mining technical event on 14th, and then you'll be having, a hopefully event on 15th, and then our opening party on 16th. So still need to update the calendar. There's a lot to do. You know? All sorts of good stuff. I know. It's gonna be so great.
[01:19:04] Unknown:
I know. I'm really, really excited for this in book clubs and the women's stuff. There's all sorts of great things happening, guys, and so make sure you go figure this out. So does tell, you know, people who are listening, obviously, not everybody's listening that are from Denver, but do people have to be a member to go to all of these events? Like, if there's, like, a open thing on the calendar, can people show up and be a part of it, like, in a meetup?
[01:19:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. A lot of the events are open to the public. A handful of events will be, you know, member only. There's like a social club aspect of the space, which I'm, you know, very bullish on. I think you will see like the rise of, you know, social clubs again, you know, post COVID, that's a trend I'm bullish on. And, you know, that's, you know, some offerings, you know, value propositions we have to our members is having, you know, exclusive events, but, we're our educational nonprofit. So a big mission of ours is to, you know, help grow Bitcoin adoption, you know, specifically in our local community, but then outsourcing as much as possible. So, you know, they can expand, you know, past just, you know, Denver or the front range. So a lot of our events will be, you know, open to the public, and you were just showing, like, the public event, calendar as well. So if you are in the area passing through, you know, I think that's another huge, benefit of, you know, being in Denver, having a massive airport, you know, a lot of people coming out to enjoy the mountains at a different time of year. Please check our calendar and stop by for having something, you know, we're looking to bring Bitcoiners together from, you know, around the world.
[01:20:32] Unknown:
That's gonna be so fun. I know I was like, I can't wait for people who are going on their holidays and ski adventures or something. And I'm like, okay. Stop at this space on your way to to Aspen or Vail or something. You know? Like, come come see everybody and check it out. It's so cool. It's just such a neat I love, you know, the different pop ups of all these little communities everywhere and then some physical, some not. It's just so cool that everybody's just taking it in into their own hands to be builders and creators, you know, and that's what's so cool about the ethos and the culture of of Bitcoiners. So it's so cool. Any final words, Wyatt? I want people to be able to come find you at yattorkedot com for those of you who can't see what's on screen right now. And you can also follow Wyatt at wroorkonx.
I'll have all this stuff in the show notes and everything, you know, in the Denver space, denver. Space too. Any I know we talked a lot about a whole bunch of different subjects. Like, I just I feel like, you know, I'd love to hear some words of wisdom to younger folks or people who are, you know, interested in learning about Bitcoin. You know, what do you what would you say to them right now?
[01:21:41] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. Thank you so much for having me, Val. This is a a ton of fun. I was happy to to chop it up with you and you feel very fortunate for this this opportunity. But, you know, I would just, you know, encourage everybody to find, you know, a moral worldview that and adopt a moral worldview that is going to guide them through the the good and the bad times. You know, it's like suffering and and challenges are innate, you know, in our human experience, we shouldn't shy away from those. We shouldn't give up our individual agency because, you know, we experienced those. That's just, you know, a part of, you know, our own individual stories. So the more we have to to fall back on, you know, outside of, you know, Bitcoin, you know, with interfaith communities, within our families, the stronger, you know, we can rise as as a unit. So I would, you know, encourage people to to seek out, you know, a moral worldview that will help you get through, you know, the the the challenges you will ultimately face.
[01:22:36] Unknown:
Wow. I love that, Wyatt. That's, like, the best advice ever. I know my, my son has this spiritual vitamins book on the next on his bed, you know, and every day, it's like a little, thing from the Bible. And I went in today and looked at what was on October 16th and it was about, you know, when you feel like giving up is the best time to just give it over to God and God's got you, you know, and don't. Because we do. We all sometimes feel like, screw it, you know? And I've been there multiple times in my life. And, it's just like, no, this is a gift. This is a gift for you to get closer to your, you know, whatever you believe in, whatever God you believe in. If you believe in the universe, nature, whatever it is, like, your faith, your path, your path to to love and God is is so important. Your path to living a value led life, a value driven life. And it's it's like, that's what keeps me going too, Wyatt. You know, like, my connection with God is the most important relationship in my life. And Absolutely. It's so beautiful. And I keep learning each day, and I'm like, oh, right.
I'm not doing any of this. It's through the grace of of god, you know, that I get to go do what I do. So so, yeah, it's it's so important. I love that advice. It's the best thing ever. So thanks. And, oh my gosh, thanks so much for sort of taking all your time and your wisdom and your article is great. You guys, I'm gonna have this. And there's a whole bunch in there that, you know, we didn't get to go over. And if you're, you know, still kinda new to Bitcoin, there, you know, really dissects, like, what sound money is and whatnot. And it's a great, great, great post. I love it. And, I'll put it in the the show notes and everything for people to read. But until next time and until I see you at the space, I'm just wishing everybody peace, love, and warm aloha, and thanks again for tuning in. And, we'll talk to you guys next time. Thank you so much, Wyatt. And thanks everybody from the space for making the space. You guys rock. Go Bitcoiners.
Alright. Aloha, everybody.
Aloha, Love Tribe. I'm so excited to have a soul brother here with me who is one of the founding members of the Denver space, the space in Denver. This is like a Bitcoin Park, Bitcoin comments. I'm so proud of what you guys have been doing there. You're also the founder of Basilic Financial. You're an entrepreneur, an urbanist, somebody who is bringing the community around, Denver and Boulder and all these areas to the space. Welcome, Wyatt O'Rourke. How's it going, brother?
[00:01:04] Unknown:
Great. Thanks so much for having me, Val.
[00:01:06] Unknown:
Oh, I'm so glad you're here. Dude, what's going on? Tell everybody who you are and, you know, what's happening in the world of of Wyatt and why you're here and how we're gonna talk about humanity's fatal flaw.
[00:01:21] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. I I'm pumped to be here. This is probably the article, you know, some of the the piece I've written I'm I'm most proud of and, you know, really just try to bring in, you know, a bunch of things I've learned from the Bitcoin community, you know, made a huge effort over the last 2 years to get involved because I've gotten so much out of the community. So it's like, you know, what can I get back? And, you know, the space is a huge part of that. We just formally moved into a gorgeous building here in the beginning of October. It's been a labor of love. It's a community driven effort. You know? The the folks at, you know, Bitcoin Commons, Bitcoin Park, they've been, you know, tremendously helpful and, you know, giving us advice, but they're a little bit more top down, where we're a little more, you know, bottom up community driven member, you know, run and operate it. And so, it's just been so rewarding, you know, being a part of something like that, and and, you know, being able to to build, you know, something from scratch, and and, you know, really conceptualize an idea into something physical. And, you know, you're a huge part of that as well. I won't be the the same without you.
[00:02:30] Unknown:
There you go.
[00:02:31] Unknown:
Oh, so sad that you guys got there. Yeah.
[00:02:34] Unknown:
Okay. So now I'm on this side of the screen. So if I'm looking at you, does it look like I'm looking away or am I looking at you? No. So it looks like you're looking at me. Still look like I'm looking? Oh, good. Okay. This is better. Okay. So we're gonna really I I pulled up your article too on X, and I I wanna go through a diagram. But what what first of all, you know, let's let everybody know a little bit about your background. Right? Like, how did you get to this point? How come you're a Bitcoiner? You know, what transfer transformational thing with, you know, in your life that you became a Bitcoiner?
[00:03:05] Unknown:
Absolutely. So I mean, I'm a devout Catholic and, you know, it's like a striking resemblance of, like, the the 2 more worldviews, combined, you know, so that gives me a, you know, a ton of, you know, faith and and confidence, you know, moving forward, you know, on a on a new monetary standard. But, I I always joke, it's like I'm traditionally trained in finance and like a lot of good, you know, that does me now as a big coiner, but it took me a long time, I was, you know, frustratingly slow, you know, to the to the bandwagon. But, unfortunately, you know, I I live with a roommate after college who who OrangeBuild Maine, Noah Marsh. I give him a ton of credit for that. You know, I had to really retrain myself in the in the Bitcoin ways, but I've always really identified as an entrepreneur, you know, to begin with. And so, I've had a a couple startups I'm working on building Pacific Financial right now. We're, state registered RIA in Colorado, and we really work with clients to help bridge the gap between traditional financial services and Bitcoin Financial Services. And, you know, really try to, you know, be, a coach, a mentor, a sounding board, and and help, you know, grow Bitcoin adoption and bring people into, you know, a new monetary system where, you know, it's not hard to, you know, find the the flaws in our existing monetary system. And it's like, I always well, one of the reasons I love Bitcoin, it's like one of those things, like, once you see it, like, you can't unsee it, right? And it just opens up like this whole new world of of rabbit holes that I've enjoyed, you know, diving into and and learning more about, and you just get to meet, you know, so many great people, you know, through those different connections and and mutual synergies. It's it's fantastic. I love Bitcoin.
[00:04:50] Unknown:
Me too. I wanna come back to you. You said it, you know, being a devout catholic, like Bitcoin, you know, has some similarities. Like, can you help everybody understand what that means to you? Yeah. Absolutely. I always,
[00:05:02] Unknown:
joke with my Protestant friends, you know, it's like, you know, I believe you Catholicism, you know, we're the the one true church and, you know, we kinda have, like, the different branches and denominations that, you know, come off of that. You know, I think of, you know, Bitcoin is being, you know, like the one true blockchain, and then you have, you know, all these, you know, offshoots and and shit coins, you know, out off of that. But you really it's just kinda like I bring it back to, like, you know, the moral worldview where it's like, you know, as Catholics, you know, we believe in lord and savior. Right? So it's like, you know, the savior is the good aspect, you know, the unconditional love, you know, the forgiveness.
But, you know, there's also the the Lord aspect, you know, where there's, you know, suffering is, you know, innate within our, you know, human nature and our human condition. And I think in order to, you know, get through those things, you need to have, you know, long term time preference. You know, you need to sacrifice and you need to, you know, be devotional, you know, to your work. And, I think just given some of the the native properties of Bitcoin and how, you know, it can't be debased. It's just built in in something true and foundational much like, you know, I think the the faith.
[00:06:17] Unknown:
Okay. Cool. And and when you're talking with other people who are also Catholic in your family or your friends or at your church, like, are they do they see it? Have they had their eyes open, you know, from this lens? I'd just be curious, like, what's your what's been your experience on that level?
[00:06:34] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. It they are definitely starting to I intended the thank God for Bitcoin conference in Nashville this year. And that, that was a really cool experience. And, you know, that, that is more, you know, a Christian conference. So, you know, it's kind of, you know, a little broadened scope there, but they did a tremendous job just, you know, pointing out the similarities between, you know, Bitcoin and Christianity. And it really is like eerie. You know, you can, you know, find multiple, you know, biblical references about, you know, how inflation, you know, is theft and, you know, how tyrants are, you know, not to be tolerated. And it's just like these things are so, you know, in and core in in Bitcoin. So seeing the correlation of the 2, I think is definitely opening some eyes. One of the the projects I'm working on right now is kind of tweaking, like, the thank God for Bitcoin conference and and making it our, thank God for Bitcoin thesis, excuse me, and making it, specifically, you know, catholic and I'm working on a presentation, to give to my my parish. And I'm I'm really excited about the opportunity to do that and just to see how how people react because I don't think it's intuitive for people to make the connection. And so it's like, if you are able to and seeing the light bulb goes off, it's pretty rewarding.
[00:07:47] Unknown:
I I love that. And so okay. So you're taking the thank God for Bitcoin presentation and you're tailoring a little bit more from a Catholic lens. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. I love it. And I think that's so important, Wyatt, because, again, if you when you speak people's languages, you have a lot more opportunities to connect. But if you're over here and you're trying to communicate something, and they're like, yeah, I kinda get it, and, okay, yeah, maybe the dots can connect. It's, like, everything is story and analogy and vocabulary. Right? And so it's, like, if we're relating things, you know, and associating things in languages, you know, that are familiar, that we believe in, that makes sense, it's a whole lot easier to help people connect the dots, you know. And I think, that's our jobs, right, as humans, is being dot connectors. And so, you know, what so right now, like, you are obviously working on you know, the space. You're working on Basilica Financial. I love that you're helping bridge this, you know, TradFi with Bitcoin World. Like, what are you finding with your clients, like, who are are most of your clients coming in? Like, are they equally curious about Bitcoin and TradFi? Or are they mostly TradFi and you're like, oh, well, that's orange pill them?
[00:08:54] Unknown:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. It it's a great question. And, you know, what I found is, you know, you know, a couple people, you know, I believe it's my fiduciary duty, you know, to to talk about Bitcoin. Yeah. You know, best performing asset. And it it's it's funny, you know, seeing how how people, you know, come to it or, you know, like you were saying, meeting them at their level and, you know, trying to find, you know, that that light bulb moment. A lot of people do recognize to some extent the money is broken. Right? They can't quite put their finger on it, but they know something's off. Right? And so, you know, you have, like, some gold bugs per se, you know, that are pretty, you know, in tune with the money being broken. They just don't know or comfortable with Bitcoin or, you know, a lot of people are concerned with inflation and, you know, that's an easy intro into Bitcoin. So when I sit down to do a financial plan, I always make sure to, actually as use this tool called Nakamoto Portfolio, which was open sourced by Swan, which is fantastic. I would highly recommend everybody, you know, go check that out and they have, you know, multiple finance resources to play with their, it's a great site.
So, you know, put in their existing portfolio so they can see how it compares, you know, to to Bitcoin. And I think, you know, that really does help open people's eyes. You know, it's like number go goes up as, you know, a great entry point, entry strategy to to try to help grow Bitcoin adoption. And from there, you know, we can generally, you know, crack the shell and, you know, go into its permissionless properties, how to actually, you know, be a sovereign individual and, you know, help people recognize that what power they have when they opt out of the existing monetary standard and opt into a Bitcoin standard and something foundational about, Basilica is we only focus on sound custody solutions. And so, you know, I don't advocate for the ETF. You know, we go the extra mile and make sure, you know, we're taking custody the the bare asset itself because it it's not just
[00:10:52] Unknown:
about price appreciation. It it's so much more than that. It is. It's and and I think are you finding obviously, because, you know, self custody is a whole purpose of, Bitcoin, is that you're not just, okay, I'm gonna just give my wealth to the 3rd party again and just entrust the 3rd party, right? And so, are you finding people, because people who I talk to, certainly people who have been hedge fund managers and in, you know, traditional finance, or just people who aren't in finance, and they just are like, well, I wanna be able to call customer service and I wanna be able to I I don't wanna remember 12 words. And what do you mean a metal plate? And what's this little thing? You know, like, are you finding people resisting you? Are they, like, okay. I can do this, like, I'm the bank thing. Like, how are how are people responding to that part?
[00:11:40] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a great question, Val. And, you know, thank you for that. So in, you know, when we're I was building out, you know, our Bitcoin division, if you will. Mhmm. Yeah. We tried to be very cognizant of that. And, I partnered with Unchained, you know, who I believe would be the, you know, premier Bitcoin Financial Services, you know, company in the country. And, you know, we've offered, you know, tiers of custody solutions. So ranging from their standard 2 or 3, you know, everything's a 2 or 3 vault. Right? But Can you explain to people just I and and just in case they don't know what that means, what's multisig? What's 2 of 3? Yeah. Absolutely. So we have a a Volley, you know, which is like a wallet, and then, you know, with 3 total keys, you know, you need 2 of the 3 to send a transaction.
Right? And so those can be, distributed and held by different, you know, parties depending on your comfortability with the asset, the technology, the network. We make sure to take all those those things into account when making a custody recommendation. But we have 3 tiers, to try to meet people where they're at. So the their standard, you know, you hold 2 keys, Unchained has 1. We have the adviser model where Unchained has 1, you have 1, and then I have 1 as the adviser. And then we're also able to offer a multi institutional, multi sig model where on chain has 1 and we can enroll 2 key agents to hold the keys as well. And so that's much more of like, a traditional experience of logging into, like, a Charles Schwab account sort of thing. But the your Bitcoin is still casting a 2 or 3 multisake wallet. So there definitely is, you know, a learning curve and, you know, you know, encourage people to, you know, do their own research. This is something that, you know, you're not gonna learn in an hour and that's okay. You know, we really, you know, resources like yourself, you've done a tremendous job of helping meet people where they're at. And, you know, that's what I I view one of my main roles as well.
And and, you know, making people feel comfortable with the choice they made, the choice we recommend. But it's ultimately finding a solution where they're comfortable and, you know, people are at different tiers and had, you know, clients interested in all all three different custody models.
[00:13:48] Unknown:
Yeah. Totally. I it's super important, I think, you know, for people to take baby steps, and if they do feel more confident with, you know, other folks helping to hold the keys, it's really important. I know I get some questions like, Well, how do you know they're not gonna You know, if you let this party and then Unchained or whoever, you know, and then I only have one key and they need 2 of or 3. How do you know they're not gonna collude and take my Bitcoin? You know? And so there's obviously those questions. And it's just like, well, how do you know Schwab's not gonna just, like, sell your Apple stock and, you know, it's like they have legal responsibilities or businesses. They're not gonna do that. But, so I think there's a lot of layers of comfort that we can offer folks, you know, and meet like you said, meet them where they're at. It's really important. Let's talk about your article, and let's talk about the name of this show and, you know, this is one of the questions you wanted to bring up. And so I'll let you kind of explain things, but I do wanna go to one graph. I have your article pulled up. Yeah.
And because it's really, really you know, I'm a visual learner and it just hit me. I was like, oh, and I noticed exactly when everything started going up with all the the toxicity and stuff. So let's talk about what help everybody understand, you know, why you wanna talk about this and why you wrote this article and what, you know,
[00:14:59] Unknown:
what what's going on. Totally. Totally. So I'll just start with, you know, caveating this as a licensed financial professional. Yeah. Know, none of this is, you know, financial advice, strictly educational purposes only. But, you know, I'm a I'm an aspiring, you know, think boy. I really like to to write and, you know, I feel like I have, you know, learned so much and I really, you know, value all the the work put out by the the Bitcoin community. I wanted to, you know, try to to give back and and, you know, put my thoughts and and leave my mark out there as well. And one of the things I think, you know, I can or I'm unique, you know, decent ability at least is, you know, trying to gear connect dots. And so this piece, specifically was really inspired by, Lynn Alden and, Larry Lapard.
Larry is, you know, famous for, you know, saying fix the money, fix the world. And so I really wanted to, like, dig into. It's like, well, what does that what does that mean? Right? And so kind of the the thesis I came up with, and this was, you know, the part inspired by when Alden is, you know, humanity's fatal flaw is when the technological superior power centralizes the money. Right? I think, you know, we can really trace that back to a lot of the falls of great, you know, human civilizations. I know Brandon quit on that. That Swan does a great job talking about, you know, the 4th turning. And, you know, that's kind of on, like, this 80 year sequence.
I think that kind of builds into, like, Ray Dalio's, like, sovereign debt crisis thesis, which is on a little longer time frame. That's more like a 250 year cycle. And so I just try to, you know, combine, you know, the the thoughts of of what both those guys are saying, and and distill it down into, you know, what I think is a series of pattern recognition. And I'm certainly not a macroeconomic expert or anything. I just try to, you know, identify patterns and and see how they they unfold. And so, you know, in in doing so, there's, like, this, I'm I'm mentioning here, you see on the the screen, you know, very, you know, common phrase, you know, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and and weak men, you know, create bad times. It's like, well, what are, like, the the functions of that actually happening? And, before I get into the the stages, which are, you know, outlined underneath that, I think, you know, just kind of a a perfect, representation of this is in Lynn Alden's book, broken money. She talks about how, you know, Belgian traders from Europe, you know, arrive in Africa and then, you know, they want spices and minerals and resources and stuff, but, you know, they're still on a monetary standard where they're trading, you know, beads and, you know, that is their economic measuring unit is beads. And, I mean, these are are glass beads that the Europeans are able to, you know, manufacture in a factory. And so they're able to, you know, take those manufactured beads, spend them, you know, in Africa. And, you know, before they the Africans, you know, know it, like, they've been robbed of their resources because the economic measuring unit, you know, has not been the same. It it it's been distorted. Right? And so I think, yeah, through that distortion process, you know, we see all these, you know, bad things. And I think, like, our worst instincts as humans kind of come out, you know, through the manipulation process.
[00:18:33] Unknown:
Totally. And and just going back to the 4th turning because we've, got, you know, William Strauss and Neil Howe Howe wrote this back in 97. And so, so I think a lot of us, you know, are interested in, you know, like what you had said. And this is where we're at is this fourth turning. I think we're in debauchery right now where we're about to fall. You know? And it's really scary to me as a mother and thinking about the future and what's gonna happen with our our our children. And, you know, are my children gonna be able to have a life that they wanna, you know, keep moving forward and have kids and bring kids into this world because we're in this kind of free fall. You know? I think society right now is completely disconnected to love. It's disconnected from truth. It's disconnected from harmony. It's disconnected from each other, and it's on purpose because of power and control and greed and manipulation.
You know? And I feel very, I'm nervous. You know? I'm hopeful as a Bitcoiner, but I'm just still a little bit nervous as a human because we're not caught up yet and technology is going way faster, you know, and and it's doing a lot of things that are magic. Right? But it's also doing a lot of things that are, you know, being used against us. You know? And so what would you say to people who are listening about, you know, to the technological gifts that we have and how can we protect ourselves as individuals and as, you know, parents and future generation protectors?
[00:20:06] Unknown:
Totally. No. Absolutely. And, you know, I think you you bring up some fantastic points there. You know, I'm aspiring, you know, parent, you know, myself, and, you know, that certainly is crossing my wife and I's, you know, mind, but, you know, part of what, you know, gives us, you know, confidence in the future is, you know, our faith. You know, we we received the sacrament of marriage and we take that, you know, seriously. And we, you know, believe it's our vocation and our calling, you know, to bring more humans into the world. You know, humans are like a a beautiful thing. And I, you know, I think I will need to defend that, you know, to my last breath. And it's like, that is, you know, what we are are called to do. That's innate with an, you know, any animal species is to reproduce. And I also, you know, take a lot of pride in the fact that, you know, humans are technological beings. And I included this quote from the Naval Ravikant. I would I would love to read that just as a beautiful job. Yeah. Let me put it up. Are you gonna read it there? Do you want me to pull it up?
Yeah. I I could either or if it's, just up a little bit if you want. This one?
[00:21:06] Unknown:
Yeah. Go ahead. You read it out loud. Humans are exceptional. In epistemology,
[00:21:10] Unknown:
humans are the only non Bayesian reasoners. In evolution, humans are the only memetic creatures that we know of. In the theory of computation, humans are the only universal explainers that we know of other than, of course, the computers that we've invented. In fact, the mind blowing thing here is that your mind cannot be blown. There's no idea out there that your mind cannot absorb given the time and effort. So I love it. Right? I was like, I think about this all the time because, you know, I it's it's so good. Right? And, you know, I think this is really our gift, you know, endowed in us by, you know, God or, you know, our creator is that, you know, we are mimetic,
[00:21:55] Unknown:
you know, think What does mimetic mean? I don't know what that means. So, I mean, you know, we
[00:22:00] Unknown:
take information from our environment and we can imitate and and learn from
[00:22:05] Unknown:
Meme it. Okay. K. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mimic meme. Okay.
[00:22:09] Unknown:
You said that, yeah, it's what, you know, meme is derived from, which is awesome. And so, you know, that's that's our human gift and, you know, that that is beautiful. So it's like, and, you know, during like the the course of this article, I tried to explain it where it's like, well, technology is is not the problem. Like, we've always been technological beings. That's, you know, why we're not, you know, living in caves right now. Right. And I use this, very brief, you know, succinct kind of example, in the beginning where, and I'd like to, you know, set the set the tone of the audience here too, while we, you know, go into the the stages, but just how, you know, technology can, you know, improve our our lives. So, I mean, this is very simplistic, but it gets a point across where it's like Roman Mason's created the arch when which enabled the aqueduct, which led to the creation of large cities, which facilitate the spread of ideas in which beautiful art was born. Right? So we can just kinda, like, succinctly see how, you know, technology can can lead to human prospering. And so I don't fundamentally think that, you know, technology is the problem. I think it is kind of the our culture and our moral worldview that ends up, you know, being the the corrupting, you know, factor here.
And getting back to your point of the the stages here, which you have, you know, pulled up on the the screen. So in any civilization, civilizational rise or civilizational story arc. Right? We have the discovery, which I think, you know, some sort of technological advancement that creates an, schism in the existing paradigm. And from there, you know, you're on the rise. Right? You know, the the printing press fire, you know, whatever, you know, you wanna point to. It's like, well, we found it. Now let's go. And so while you're on the the rise, one of the things I think is just important about here is, you know, we have entrepreneurs, you know, people willing to go out and work, you know, create things, is when markets are most clear, right? And the this this bullet point here, the society is prospering as a whole because market signals are clear. There's succinct and functioning feedback loops. Capitalists are using markets to organize capital, deploy capital, and create more capital. So this is kinda like the most pure phase of a civilizational story arc. Right?
From there, you go into the the golden age, you know, which is kinda like the the peak of the arc. Right? And so this is where people in proximity to the rise have, like, the most appreciation for it. And then unfortunately, you know, we'd we'd evolve in into debauchery, which I think you, you know, astutely pointed out where, you know, we could kind of point to where we're at with the United States. And I like to point out here, I think this is where we enter bureaucratic class. Right? So we've kind of enough time has passed, you know, since arise if we wanna use the United States as an example here. You know, maybe that's like the early 1900, you know, roaring twenties, you know, post war, you know, acceleration.
And then, you know, after that, you you kinda get comfortable. Right? You kinda start resting on your laurels. Enough time passes and the people who were a part of building, you know, end up retiring, passing away, whatever. Right? And we've we've left it with, you know, the next, the generation. And once you enter, a bureaucratic or once you, you know, start bringing in a lot of the bureaucratic class, that's where, you know, things tend to fall apart because they're not so much builders as they are regulators. Right?
And then at this point too, you're already past the golden age. So you've amassed, like, this tremendous amount of wealth and power. And while I don't inherently think wealth and power are bad things, I do think they attract the worst type of people. Right? And so you kinda get these skewed, you know, incentives and, you know, people are are seeking out those things without having earned them themselves, like they already exist in society. And, you know, they want to, you know, skip the steps of creating that themselves. So they just try to, you know, get straight to the the wealth or power as quickly as they can. And I think, specifically, in a Fiat society, wealth and power, you know, congregates around the money printer.
Right? And so once, you know, we're in kind of this stage of the cycle, we really lose that sense of a functioning feedback loop, which is, you know, detrimental to society. Right? And once the mechanism of free markets erodes, we're really left guessing as market participants. Right? Because what was once clear signal no longer exists because there's generally a £800 gorilla in the room, the government, you know, choosing winners, picking losers, putting their weight on the scale to, you know, favor, you know, a lobbyist or adding regulation. I saw you tweeting about SpaceX this week, which was, I mean, phenomenal. I can't believe, you know, this self landing skyscraper just got, like, plucked out of the sky. Right? Like, it's insane technological feat. Right? I was like, I'm sure somebody was joking on Twitter, but it feels like something that is true where it's like the hardest part of this was getting it approved by the FAA. Mhmm. I mean, it happens. So it's like, you kinda get a sense of, like, where we're at and how, you know, the the regulators have gotten such, you know, big heads or it's like, we should be so appreciative of this technological advancement, but there's all this regulatory red tape in the way, distorting market signals. Right?
[00:28:15] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's scary, you know, because obviously things are politicized. And like it said, you know, your people are resorting to lawfare because they can't really compete in these markets right now because they're so skewed. So, you know, and I think too about, do you know who Mike Benz is? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so just the censorship industrial complex, which is a whole thing that I've been learning, studying, trying to understand, and obviously subject to as a participant of somebody on social media. And it feels like when you build any type of governmental entity for a certain thing, whether it's for a war, whether it's for a period of time, whatever, it doesn't ever shut down. Like, that entity, that division, that thing, it's like, cool. Well, now you built us. Let's keep funding it. And it's like, well, but we really don't need you anymore.
You know? But those people don't wanna lose their their positions. They've got, you know, comfortable things, so they start making up problems to solve that aren't there. You know? And and it's almost like I think of, like, the, I don't know about you, you know, where you went to college, but, like, the hall monitors. Yeah. You know? Yeah. There's just there's people who wanna go be the hall monitors and, like, I wanna give you a ticket. Go. You know? So it's just this, like, people wanna feel like they're doing their thing. You know? But I'm, like, really? Is that the function that we actually need in our in our culture, in our society, in the world? And so, unfortunately, people are stuck, you know, in these bureaucratic positions, and they're like, cool. I've got a pension. Cool. I've got, you know, security. I've got health insurance. You know? And so I feel like it's a really, how do you unwind the monster, the kraken, the beast that gets built, you know? And, unfortunately, sometimes it has to explode, and that sucks. You know? So I wanna go back to to the part of the you know, we can keep going, obviously, because you've got the fall part here. And it's funny. I'm gonna do a parallel to a conversation I just had before this this interview with you, but I want you to keep going.
Am I sharing it? Yeah. It's sharing. About the fall. Like, what how do we because I feel like we're between debauchery and about to have a fall in our world right now, not just the United States.
[00:30:29] Unknown:
Totally. Totally. So I really think predicates, like, debauchery from the the fall is when market signals are so skewed because, like you said, you know, the the government never gets smaller. Right? So there's just more and more regulation, like, more and more money printing, you know, to to fund, you know, whatever they want. And we can get into that, you know, more. We don't actually vote on these things. But when market signals are skewed and market participants can't identify opportunities from themselves, like, they were they resort to gambling. Right? Because it's like, I don't know if allocating this capital is actually a good decision because the market signals are so skewed. Like, you know, I can't I can't make sense of it. And I think this is such an important thing, aspect of the money printer. Right? If you just think of money as an economic measuring stick. Right?
The more units that enter the system, it, you know, money and energy go into everything. Right? So the the larger you you make the denominator, the harder it is to, you know, identify how valuable the numerator really is. And so you ended up just taking your capital and gambling with it. That's why, you know, I don't think there's not a correlation between the rise in sports gambling, you know, predominantly in America. The rise of shit coinery. Right? Because you resort to these get rich quick schemes because you kinda already feel behind the 8 ball. Yep. You that you've gotten robbed and or disadvantaged and some sort of way where you just, like, need to take your capital and cycle black, you know, put it on black and and see what happens. Right?
Because I can't make that decision for myself because the market is such a mess. Because the 800 pound gorilla in the room has gotten in the way. And at that point, you know, unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot of of turning back from that and you end up, you know, moving into the the fall category. Right? And at this point, like, it it's a total facade. Right? If you can't clearly identify market signals, you're like, you're living in facade stitched together by printed money. Right? And ultimately, the the root rooster comes comes home to roost, like, whatever that and that's saying is, you know, it's like, you know, there are there are real consequences to these decisions.
[00:32:57] Unknown:
Well, there are for some and not for others in this period of time. Like, we're looking at who what was the the bank that just got the 3,000,000,000 I think it was $3,000,000,000 fine, which is nothing. It's pennies, for for money laundering drugs and human trafficking, and they didn't nobody got prosecuted. There were no consequences to the, to this. Was it TD?
[00:33:20] Unknown:
Do you know what I'm talking about? What you're referencing. Yeah. I I can't remember the specifics.
[00:33:24] Unknown:
I don't want to say the wrong name and get the- Yeah, I'm right. That would be bad. But it was a huge, huge, huge, huge bank and, they just got like a slap on the wrist you know, for this terrible behavior. And so oh, so I'm not sharing. Hold on. I thought I turned it back on. Yeah, they just got a slap on the wrist, you know? And so it's like you're looking at people who are promoting Freedom Technologies, right? We've got the samurai devs who are facing big problems because they wrote some code so that people could have privacy with their money. This is an issue and I think people listening, you know, who don't understand why it's so important to have, you know, property rights and privacy, you know, think about cash, right? Like, we want to be able to have some cash. Like, if all the power goes out in the whole wide world, like we saw, you know, what happened in North Carolina, like, you're not trading Bitcoin on your phone. You don't have no Internet. You've got no electricity.
So to have a cashless society is very dangerous, I think. You know, as much as we all think, Oh, I wanna be on a Bitcoin standard, yes, to some degree, but we need to have some form of physical money, you know, to transact with each other in case of, you know, radical emergencies like this. And so, can you imagine if you weren't able to have that private stash of cash and that was the only thing you could do was trade this? And, you know, so it's important to have privacy, it's important to have cash, it's important to have not the government knowing every little thing that you do because if all of a sudden they determine that everybody has to believe in Bob the Builder as God and you're not allowed to be Catholic anymore you know, and they're gonna come after you like they do in certain countries and, you know, persecute you because of your religious beliefs, they'll shut your money system down, you know? And so to me, like, people listening have to understand why having the ability to have private money, whether it's cash, whether it's Bitcoin, whether it's gold or diamonds or whatever you might have of value can protect you from different administrations coming in and out throughout the course of history and certainly throughout the course of your children's lives and their children's lives. And so Bitcoin offers one of the solutions. It's not the only thing in the world forever, but it can give us an opportunity to have some separation of, you know, money from state so that we're not going to get censored and that we're not going to lose the ability to feed our families, you know, because government decided they don't like what you believe in or what you said or whatever it might be. And so, unfortunately, we're starting to see that happen right now.
You know, obviously, you know, a couple of years ago, the trucker protest, you know, the whole thing, COVID, all these things, and it's just very, very scary, I think, for people to start to wake up to how important it is to understand the money that they're using and the system that they're voting for when they use fiat. And the system that they're voting for when they use fiat. You know? And I think that's one thing people don't connect the dots because every time you use your credit card, every time you play in the game of that fiat system, you could just you're giving them a a high five. Like, keep going. Keep keep the system alive. Like, I'm voting for violence. I'm voting for censorship. I'm voting for, financial and and mental slavery.
Let's talk about, later in the article, you know, we you let me see. I don't know how far down was it with the art the we talk we I don't wanna go over all the properties of Bitcoin because Bitcoin's super obviously, but I wanna get this is the graph that was really important to me. Let's go to hold on. Make sure that it's showing. View tab, wake up tab. There we go. Okay. This. So can you explain this and why, you know, why do you think this has gone on because we've gone on to a fiat standard. And I wanna see if I can make this bigger for people. Hold on. Can I go Oh, yay? Good. Look at that. Hold on. Yeah.
The death of despair and its components. What does this mean, Wyatt? I'm so sad looking at this.
[00:37:36] Unknown:
No. Absolutely. This is a very, you know, depressing graph. I don't think there's any other, you know, way around it. I was actually, really disappointed and kind of pissed off. I can only find, a graph that went to 2017, so that doesn't even include, you know, COVID. I have to imagine these numbers are even worse Yeah. Unfortunately. Anything after this, I find it was only race based. That wasn't like the the point I was trying to get across. So I settled with the the older, data here. And so this was done by a senate study, commissioned by the, you know, the US senate. And so, you know, they list the 3 main categories of deaths as far as suicide, alcohol related, and drug related. And then, you know, we have the that top line being like the overall debts. And so the idea behind this is, like, if, you know, there are deaths related to, you know, one of these 3, you know, categories, that's not, you know, like somebody dying of of old age. Right? That is, you know, death created or or warranted or, facilitated through artificial, means. Right? And so, you know, these people, you know, that, unfortunately, you know, feel like they, you know, they've lost purpose, they don't have a purpose, so they're, they're turning towards things that, you know, ultimately hurt them and, you know, we'll, we'll kill them in the long term, which is extremely sad because, you know, we started this conversation about, you know, how beautiful humanity is and how we have such, you know, great gifts and how we were, you know, created in the image and likeness of of God. And, you know, this was not, you know, our intention, you know, to live out on earth is to be, you know, suffering these consequences.
And I you know, fullheartedly believe this is a symptom of fiat money. Right? And it really has to do with just, you know, the the vast amounts of of money printing. And I think it's particularly wicked and and evil stealing from people through inflation because they have no sense of how they are being stolen from. Like, it happens, you know, behind closed doors. It happens without, you know, saying it happens slowly over time. You know, it's like, you know, particularly, you know, post COVID, you know, there's been a lot of stuff on, you know, Twitter and, you know, various social media. It's like, you know, my, you know, car to groceries cost, you know, $20, you know, pre, you know, explosion of money printing and, you know, post explosion of money printing, you know, around COVID, you know, like, cost, you know, 40, $50. But, obviously, you know, most people working, you know, some sort of w two, you know, salary, you know, their their pay hasn't hasn't kept up. And I think this really just creates, like, this sort of societal rot. Right? And this is, you know, referencing back to the stages. So, like, this is the facade. Right? How can we keep, like, the music going without people, you know, recognizing it? And, you know, there's a thought in in Casey and Economics, you know, that was widely propagated for over 20 years now. I'd say probably almost all of the 21st century is that, you know, inflation's been tamed. You know, it's been defeated. You know, it doesn't even exist anymore. Like, we have our us as central planners. Right? And it's like we're so good. We were able to just rid this of the world, which, you know, obviously isn't the the case. And, you know, as Bitcoiners, you know, we are, you know, acutely aware of that. But, I don't think, you know, most people are. And it's very sad because, like, I think when you're faced with, you know, just trying to, you know, put myself in, you know, the the shoes of somebody who's struggling to, you know, make do if you're just getting constantly robbed from on top of, you know, the the stressors of an everyday life. Right? You know, I think a lot of the deterioration of the the family was actually more manufactured than than not, you know, bringing in, you know, forcing families to have, you know, 2, you know, both parents, you know, working, taking a parent out of the home, you know, into the workforce, just to make ends meet.
And then, on top of it, you have both parents, you know, working and they're not making ends meet. It's like, it creates, like, this weird, social environment where it's like, it feels like everybody's on edge. They know something's wrong. Like, there's strife and and violence and, you know, disorder and and people are frustrated, but they can't point to why. And it's like, I think that makes people even more upset is they can't articulate. It's like why they feel this way, why society is degrading around them. And so people, unfortunately, as this graph shows, turn to, you know, things to try to to numb the pain, which ultimately end up, you know, hurting them even more.
[00:42:29] Unknown:
Yeah. Totally. I think, you know, said bunny, have you read his book? I haven't, but I have listened to quite a few of his interviews on podcast. I love Seb. He's incredible. And, you know, he talks a lot about these points you're bringing up and just the difference between, you know, acute anxiety and generalized anxiety and generalized, you know, because you sense like you just said, you can sense it in your bones. You sense it in your soul. Something's wrong, but you don't understand exactly what. And it's like you're constantly in the scarcity mindset. You know, if you're doing this thing and I'm trying to raise kids and this and that and you're stressed out and your cortisol levels are really high, you know, and so you're in fear a lot. And so fear is not, a healthy vibration to be in a lot. It's a useful one. We need to have fear as humans, right? If the tiger is chasing you, like, you should be afraid so that your, you know, parasympathetic system shuts down and your sympathetic gets engaged and you go run and get away. It's important, you know, so fear is not a bad thing, but you shouldn't be in that state all the time. It causes many, many health issues, you know, it causes, obviously, relationship issues. And, I think it sucks. It's by design, you know, to keep people on, you know, the treadmill and the hamster wheel and you nailed it too. Just they don't understand that they're actually being stolen from. Nobody voted for these central planners. Nobody voted to go print 40% during COVID of the money supply. Nobody keeps voting to expand, expand, expand, you know? And so because it's done this way behind the scenes, like you said, people aren't and you don't see the the effects for, you know, 12 to 18 months down the road of when these things start happening. So it's not just like, oh, all of a sudden, they raised interest rates or lowered interest rates or they did all this. It's like you're going to have these longer term effects. And so people don't connect the dots.
You know, it's one thing if a politician said, I'm gonna raise all of your taxes up to, you know, 60% this year. Are you gonna vote for them? No. Everyone's gonna be like, I don't like you. Go away. But that's what they're doing when they're printing this money because what they're doing is taking away your purchasing power. Even though you think, like, look, my house went up in value, it didn't go up in the ability for you to have the same purchasing power that you did 5 years, 10 years, 20 years ago, you know. And so when people really, they get so excited and they think, oh, you know, everything went up. And it's like everything went up except your income levels, you know. And and so it's like you're not you're not as powerful as you were as a person and now you've got to have these 2 earner homes. But, you know, you're obviously, like you said, you're a young family in training, right? You guys want to grow and have children. Like, what's it like for you, Wyatt, thinking, you know, like, is are you hoping that, you know, your wife would get to stay home with the kids and you get to do the thing that the dads do? Like, is that even a possibility in this generation because of the the way that the Fiat system is poisoning our dreams in the for the future?
[00:45:40] Unknown:
Yeah. It's a great question, Val. And, you know, some of my wife and I, you know, talk about a a lot and and check-in. And, you know, I think if we didn't have our faith and we didn't have Bitcoin to be, you know, totally different story, right? Because, you know, you know, Catholicism, you know, we have, you know, sacraments that, you know, we, you know, friendly believe in and, you know, marriages, you know, one of those where, you know, husband and wife become, you know, one flesh and my role and my vocation as the husband is to be the head of the family and my wife's role and vocation as the wife is to be, you know, the body of the family. And so my vocation responsibilities is provide and protect.
Her vocation responsibility is to take care of the home and raise the the children in the faith. And, you know, it's like, we wholeheartedly, you know, believe that. Right? And it's like, yeah, we're we're Catholic and, you know, that's part of our, you know, religious teachings, but it's like, that is also something I think you're pretty tried and true in, you know, humanity, you know, in general. Right? Like, I, as a man, and you have a woman, we have different chemicals literally flowing through our blood that, you know, drive us to, you know, feel different things. Right? And so it's like, I'll hold a baby and, you know, think it's cute. My wife holds a baby and, you know, feels a totally different, you know, connection to it because, you know, we're different biological, you know, beings. Right?
And so that gives us a ton of confidence and and faith where it's like, I know waking up every morning is like, what my responsibilities are. And then, you know, also, you know, I don't think I would be able to, you know, our hopes is we're we're trying to have a kid by the time, you know, we conceive and, you know, the baby's born. Our hope is that, you know, my wife will be able to, you know, stay home and raise our family. And then, you know, we'll be, you know, and we have some some friends that are our church that do a great job of, you know, describing it where it's like, you know, if we're not like a single income family, right? We might be like the one, you know, single earner, but, you know, multiple streams of income. Right? So I take, you know, my role as an entrepreneur very seriously because, you know, when you go out and try to, you know, create value in the world, like, you are, you know, somewhat uncapped on, like, what you're able to do because you're taking the risk to, you know, go out and and build something yourself. Whereas at a, you know, if I was just working a w two job, I would feel, you know, much less confident that I would be able to, you know, take care of my family on, you know, just a single income source. So and then ultimately, you know, we have, you know, decided to, you know, account on a Bitcoin standard, you know, with a deflationary savings technology as opposed to a Fiat standard that, like, we've touched on is, you know, constantly being eroded under our feet. So I think it's, you know, our faith and Bitcoin and, you know, taking the risk to, you know, start a company and being entrepreneurs. Like, these are all tools, you know, available to everybody to embrace. It's just, are you willing to sacrifice? Are you willing to do the work? You know, are you willing to learn about a different monetary system and and opt into that and you kinda retrain your brain? So it it's really the combination of those things that I think, you know, the world we wanna live in is gonna be possible.
[00:48:56] Unknown:
And, you know, and you mentioned something, obviously, there's a lot of folks who are just it's interesting. My friend, Heather, posted something. I think it was yesterday. She said, Entrepreneurs are born. And in my experience meeting people who are W-two people versus entrepreneurs, they're different breeds of people. And I would say the qualities and characteristics, and they're both wonderful groups of humans, but there are certain people who are not entrepreneurs. It would mess up their brains. Like, my mom is a great example. I love you, mom. The idea of her being an entrepreneur, she would have a nervous breakdown and forget about it. Right? And so, obviously, you know, a lot of women aren't necessarily up. There are a lot of great women entrepreneurs. That's for sure. But there are certain men too who is just like, let me go do my my task because I'm really good at building or I'm really good at x, y, or z, you know, but, like, running the connected dots of being an entrepreneur is like, it's not happening for some people. And being an entrepreneur, like, you're an octopus, you know, until you can build out teams where you get specialized folks, it's like you're the team and then you can learn how to grow your teams. And so some people are just completely not cut out for that. So what would you say to folks who are happily working in their engineering job or happily working as a nurse or happily working as a doctor, you know, on their W2, you know, journey? Like, how would you help them? And this is not financial advice.
What advice would you maybe say to folks like that who are, you know, in that that position?
[00:50:37] Unknown:
Totally. No. I I do think you're you're right. But, ultimately, everything is a a series of of trade offs at the end of the day. Right? So it's like, you know, if you don't think you possess those skills, you know, I would, you know, challenge you on that for for 1, you know, a lot of people like their w two job just because, you know, it's it's comfortable and, you know, it's predictable, which are all good things. And there's certainly things I wish I, you know, had sometimes, don't get me wrong, but I think, you know, kind of touching back on the technology point, you know, there's so many tools and resources out there nowadays where it's like, you might be uncomfortable at first, but, you know, I would say, you know, anybody is capable of tapping into these and, you know, I try to encourage people too. It's like when they think of entrepreneurship, it's like, oh, I need to invent something new. I need to be, you know, Elon Musk. You know, it's like there's so many different types of, you know, businesses, you can do and there's so many different ways to to make money. It's just like I would just try to, you know, deduce it to like the most simple form. It's like, what can you do to add value to somebody else? And that could already be something that exists. You know, it's like you can, you know just because there's one account doesn't mean there needs to be there shouldn't be 3 accountants. Right? Like, there's always more, you know, ways to to add value. And then, you know, I think a lot of it has to do, you know, with with Bitcoin too. Even if, you know, you really don't feel comfortable, you know, leaving w two, you know, you think you're you're wired to be a part of it. You know, that's that's fine. But then, you know, it's like using my, situation, you know, specifically, that means, you know, I'd be sacrificing potentially on my children's future and, you know, removing the mother from the home and, you know, making her, you know, go out in the workplace. So we, you know, we both had w two income. So it's like, well, I'd I'm trading off my comfortability of a predictable, you know, income, but also, you know, sacrificing the the potential of, you know, my my children and my my household. So it's like that frankly isn't, you know, a trade I'm I'm willing to make. Maybe some people are. I'm not dogging on them for that. I'm just, you know, trying to be, you know, transparent about, you know, the decision, you know, being made. And then, you know, I think too is a huge aspect that, you know, not a lot of people, especially new to Bitcoin grasp is that, you know, it is, you know, a savings technology, you know, the river has this great graphic I'm thinking of where it's like the price of a home denominated in Bitcoin and then denominated in fiat and to your point earlier. Oh, it's fine. Yeah. Exactly. You know, that home's getting cheaper in Bitcoin terms. So it's like then, you know, I would say, like, the the third, you know, aspect of this is like, okay. Well, if you're firmly staying in your w two position, I would at least encourage you to to learn about Bitcoin and then, you know, learn about accounting your life in a a new and different monetary system that is based in a savings technology.
[00:53:29] Unknown:
I love it. I love it. I know. I think, you know, I'm a visual learner, so I always like graphs or charts or before and after. If you saved in Bitcoin instead of saving in, you know, dollars or whatever, like, you would have this much purchasing power if you did this over 5 years, you know, whatever. And so, I think it's, you know, we're all different types. You know, there's 5 learning styles. So it's like, what's your learning style? And it's important to, like, as an educator, somebody who's you know, we're all obsessed with, you know, adoption and hyper Bitcoinization. It's important for us to, like, use tools available to us to help, you know, become better, more effective communicators. I think AI is such an important tool now, too. And I think we talk about number go up, we talk about freedom go up, we talk about love go up, peace go up, all of it, right? And we think about humanity go up.
And so, collectively, you're saying humanity's fatal flaw and so it's like AI is just a tool, just like Bitcoin is a tool. Like, last night, I was I'm I'm a total nerd. So instead of Netflix, I watch YouTube videos about AI crap. And it's mind blowing, you know, or marketing or whatever. I just love learning and I'm, like, just so cool because if you can get on YouTube because it's free, if you have an Internet connection, you can learn anything at this point. You know? And, like, just last night, I'm learning about, you know, these bots that people are building. You know? And she's like, you can build a whole blog business in using this thing. And she's like, you do this, you create an RSS feed, then you do chat GPT, you tell it to do this thing, and then you post it over here. And every time this thing gets post updated, it's gonna go here and regurgitate your stuff with your words, your brand, your, you know, stuff, and you can make a picture.
And I'm like, that's cool. Yeah. Like, anybody can go learn these things if you can watch a video and follow along and type in a couple of things. You don't need to be a coder. You don't need to be a 1,000,000, you know, billionaire financial genius, but, like, you can up level your skills with the technology that's out there that's very ridiculously affordable. Like, you can use chatgpt for free. Not that I'm in love with, you know, Sam Altman at this moment, but I am concerned about his privacy practices and security. I really am a little concerned, with all of the AI, not just him in general.
But, like, if we decide that we wanna go up level our skills in the world, it's like at our anybody can go do it. There's no excuse not to. And so do you think, like, because the younger generation has been gifted with this poopy inheritance of fiat and inflation and short term thinking and instant gratification, You know, I think about the way that any of our minds and especially young people's minds are being programmed with instant gratification on the social media and the likes. It's like, do you feel like the younger generation is at a disadvantage because they have to do so much reprogramming to get on this proof of work, you know, low time preference, mindset and lifestyle because they have to unprogram themselves from, you know, maybe a decade or so if, you know, of of being programmed in the social media world that they're in.
[00:56:53] Unknown:
Yeah. No. It is a great question. I think, like, every generation feels like they got it worse. Right? You know? Sure. I think, yeah, there's kinda like some, you know, innate within us as humans. But, you know, ultimately, it's like, yeah, I think that that is a good point. I do, you know, worry about, like, some long term, you know, effects of, you know, social media on a, you know, young brain. And, but at the same time, you know, I think, like, their benefit is they were raised in, you know, kind of digital, you know, environment. Right. And they're kind of able to, you know, pick up on, you know, stuff, you know, quicker than than some of the the older generations. And you know what? I would really actually like to see, you know, what I advocate, you know, and, you know, I think, you know, the the faith has really helped me identify too is that, you know, we are creatures born at different times in the different environments. But the fact, you know, we're still, you know, endowed with individual agency by our creator. Right? That is in a negative that every human, you know, has. Right? So I just, you know, try to encourage people, you know, whatever, you know, age or generation they are to to lean into that. Right? I think, you know, a lot of the the current movement I, you know, associate a lot of this with wokeness is it tries to remove your individual agency and, you know, teach you to be, you know, a victim. And I, you know, just honestly don't believe that's the case. And I think, you know, anybody is capable, you know, to that, and then Duval quotes. Like, we are, you know, phenomenal, you know, species. We have all these these great gifts that, you know, everybody is born with and that, you know, they have the the right to. And so I would just encourage people to to lean into that, you know, and and to take matters, you know, into their own hands, because we can't, you know, and that's awesome. That's powerful.
[00:58:40] Unknown:
It is powerful. And especially, you know, in places where we do have the freedom to do so, you know, in some places, you don't have the freedom to be as expressive as you want or as curious as you want and follow different threads of your imagination and skills. Like, you're just like, nope. This is your life forever. You have to go do this factory. You have to go dig in a mine until, you know, you peel over. I know it's it's the top of the hour. How much time do you have? I want to respect your time. Yeah. No, I can keep going. I'm not done with you yet. Why?
Again, coming back to the wokeism that I think, unfortunately, people are getting, polluted with right now, and it's unfortunate, you know, because I think we've got a sense of entitlement, you know, and that's, I think, where this wokeism stuff is coming from. I used to be very far left ish, you know, because I used to think like, Oh, we wanna include everybody and we want equal rights and fairness and, you know, we don't wanna have people telling us what to do and my body, whatever it is, you know? I used to really be very much in that camp, but I feel like it's gotten so ridiculous, you know, and it's just like everybody just wants a handout, You know, they don't wanna show up and do the work. They don't wanna be uncomfortable. They don't wanna take time and, you know, learn something and take the time to develop a craft or, you know, you know, we think it just as an example, music, Right? It's like in in the old days, you took time, you learned chords, you learned the thing. It took, you know, a while to learn something, and then it took a while to get in a studio, and then you would record on a tape, and you'd have to go slice the tape. And it was like it was a process. And now I can say make me a hip hop song that sounds like Kanye singing like a clown, like Pokemon or something. And then all of a sudden you get a song and you're like, I made that. And I'm like, no. You didn't.
Yeah. The guys who made the computer code did. Okay? You know? And so so I think it's like we've got, like, an interesting gift that it's like, cool. Let's go use these tools, but it's also, like, let's remember that it's, like, okay. What who made the tools and should I be maybe focusing my direction and being a toolmaker, you know, and learning how to do that or taking those tools and doing something even more exponentially interesting with them and not just, you know I mean, it's fun to make memes and it's fun to make all these little things, but it's like, what are you doing to better yourself and humanity with the technology that exists, you know, that's in front of us?
Because I think we're gonna go through, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but we're going to go through a lot of displacement because the machines keep coming in, and it's good. Why would you have a human do something that a machine can do 10 times, 100 times faster and better, and they can do it 24 hours a day? You know? Like, let's free up some of that human capital, that mind capital, that heart capital, that creativity. But it's like there's going to be this population of people who haven't been trained yet and haven't been upskilled into the next level and they're going to be, like, I think, mentally lost a little bit. Right? So it's like there's people who are used to, Oh, I was so used to my position and in my income. Like, how do they support their family now that they've been laid off because robots are taking over? And that's been going on for a long time since, you know but but I think it's gonna go a lot faster because of AI and all this integration, you know? You don't need to hire a copywriter anymore, You know? You don't need to hire all these people to do the things that would cost a lot of money and time. So it's like, where does all this talent get to go? And I know a lot of people argue about universal basic income, you know, so that everybody can at least but that to me is I don't I don't know. I don't feel like that's gonna be the solution. Like, I want free markets.
I want people to work, because I think your human spirit diminishes when you're not contributing. Like, you get apathetic, you get lazy mentally, you get lazy physically and spiritually, and so it's like we're designed to do things. You know? We're designed to procreate. We're designed to create. And so what what would you say to, like, people who might be in a transition period, you know, in in the next wave of how can how can they participate in the future.
[01:03:16] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. I love what you just said. I I I kinda agree more. You know, it it's it's it's easy to be a pessimist. Right? And it's like, I was like, oh, woe is me or whatever it may be. But, you know, ultimately, I think, you know, technology creates opportunity. Right? And it's like, there used to be a lot of switchboard operators. You know, it's it's like, you know, literally plugging in, like, a full line and be like a different line to, you know, connect the call. And I, know what year the last one of them was employed, but the point of the story is that the economy expanded, you know, through technology to, you know, create new jobs in in different fields. And so I think that will continue happening. And, you know, I just you would reference back to that, you know, Nivol quotes. Like, there's nothing, you know, given the time and and resources that, you know, we can't comprehend. It might be difficult. It might require sacrifice.
But ultimately, you know, to that same vein, like you were saying, it's never been easier to get access and learn about AI and marketing because we have YouTube. And, you know, YouTube wasn't around. And so it's like, I really, you know, it it don't get me wrong. It's it's easy to get lost in the noise. I'm certainly, you know, guilty of that or it's like, wow, everything's gone to shit, you know, whatever it may be. But, you know, I'm a I'm trying to, you know, be a techno optimist. I consider myself a a a patriot and, you know, it's like onward. You know? That's one of the reasons, like, I'm so excited, you know, for Bitcoin is, like, we've been given, you know, this gift, and and Sailor has this great quote that I love where it's like, Satoshi found a way, create a way and then, like, gave it away. It's it's something, you know, along those lines. And so it was just like, that's something, you know, in 2006, like, we didn't even know about and even fast forward to 2024, you know, coming up on the white paper day here in about a couple weeks, you know, it's like, we have this whole new opportunity to to explore and build on. And so I just, you know, try to embrace those opportunities, you know, try to, you know, step back from the noise, touch grass, you know, embrace big picture and and see how you can exploit opportunities. You know, I mentioned in the the piece where, you know, technology creates a schism in the existing paradigm.
Mhmm. What are you gonna do as a human with individual agency to take advantage of said opportunity? Right? Totally. So I really encourage, you know, people to just try to, you know, flip the script and and think about it, you know, a little differently because, you know, I think especially for for young people, you know, to your point, you know, they might be in, you know, this, the state of, you know, despair. So, you know, for simplicity's sake, let's say, like, the majority of, you know, 9th graders fall into this opportunity. You know, they they think, you know, they've been wronged and, you know, in a lot of ways they have. But, you know, if you're willing to, you know, rise above that and and take, you know, your life into your own hands, like, those people are gonna be extremely easy to be in the free market because they've already waived the white flag. So it's like you just need to go out and create. And, yeah, it's it's hard. Like, that's the point. You know, it was easy. Everybody would do it. But, I think it would be that much easier for for people to to rise above if their peers are, you know, in this woe is me state.
[01:06:35] Unknown:
Yeah, I know. I think, unfortunately, you get into that group think, you know, around people who are experiencing pain and you have, you know, trauma bonding and all of this and people, join forces and then they get mad at, you know, they shake a stick at the system. So instead of just being like, You're the first point of action in your own life. You're it. Like, no one's coming to save you. And so one of my teachers, he's just like, you know, we're all just walking around with our umbilical cords out looking for our mommy, you know, to take care of us, you know? And so, that mentality, it's like, at some point, you get to grow up and be the mommy or the daddy. And so, that's called adulthood and maturity. And so, you know, and I'm not saying that you need to all grow up super fast and not enjoy your youth and be playful and fun, but that a lot of people who are adults, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, it doesn't matter, like they haven't gotten over that part with that umbilical cord out because they want someone else to fix things, they want someone else to take care of them, etcetera. And so, I know we all go through phases of that. I've been that way. I'm not, like, some perfect, oh, I'm I'm Jesus or I'm Buddha or I'm, you know, I'm not. I'm just a I'm a dumb human.
You know? But but I feel like, you know, the more that we perpetuate, you know, someone else is gonna come save you and you're a victim versus you're you're it. You and your creator are rocking together on this planet. You know? That's kinda how you can, I think, move through life a lot more successfully with less stress? You know? What what do you say? Like, you remember the dockworkers struck a couple like, 2 weeks ago? I mean, obviously, that was gonna cost tons of money for the world, not just our country. But, you know, and I think I recall one of their demands was they don't wanna have the machines take their jobs.
And it was like, they're running a business. Of course, the machines are gonna take your jobs. That's like saying I'm gonna do all my invoicing on paper, you know, and I'm gonna nail everything by a pigeon. Yeah, dude. Your job's getting taken. Sorry, but that's what's happening. So what are you gonna do for your life? You know? Like, you can't slow the progress train down. It's just like, you know, oh, no. There's cars. Well, no. We need to keep everything in horse and buggy. We want forever. No. Okay. Now you used to change the shoes on the horses. Like, okay. Now you're gonna go learn how to do tires. You know? Like, get over like, that's where I think people need to get into that position of, like, this is cool. What else can I go play with and do, you know, and not feel like, you know, it's tough? I mean, change, you know, a lot of the people I work with and clients and workshops and stuff I do, it's like change is tough. It's the scariest, hardest thing, especially, you know, if it comes quickly and it wasn't your choice.
Yep. You know, if it wasn't your choice, it's difficult. People resist. They cling on and they're like, no. And so, you know, empathy, of course, is important in love and compassion for people who are going through these things, but it's like there's so many tools out there to explore and play with, you know, and have some fun and get creative with, you know, your next chapter of life. Let's talk about a chapter of yours, Wyatt. Let's call let's talk about the space chapter. I don't know if we've got any space members watching it. Go Denver. Go get coincidental. Tell tell everybody about the Denver space. And you and the team have been so remarkable that watching the journey of you guys getting this, I'm so impressed and grateful to to, you know, get to see it flourish and participate in my little tiny way.
[01:10:27] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. Thank you, Valerie. It it this has been and this space, I think, is, like, probably one of the most important, you know, projects I'll I'll work on in in my career. You know, it's just like it is for sure, a labor of of love. You know, I started a little bit over, a year ago, you know, born out of BitDevs. And, like, the whole point was like, well, how can we go space? Thanks, Rob. Yay. Yeah. How can we, you know, bring the community, the Bitcoin community together, you know, more intentionally? You know, in Denver, I think, you know, Denver is like we we joke where it's like the the greater front range, like, probably has, like, a very high Cypherpunk to MPC ratio.
[01:11:11] Unknown:
Right? Is there a number like, is that a word we can we should come up with, like, a c p n t c? I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, go.
[01:11:22] Unknown:
Yeah. It's so there's just a a tremendous amount of talent here. I am, like, consistently blown away by the the talent. You know, our our small humble group has, you know, attracted and, you know, it makes me just wanna work that much harder. And so this, you know, is like a a Bitcoin Citadel. Right? So it's very similar to Bitcoin Park or Commons, and those folks have been, you know, great helping us out and and giving us advice and, you know, along the way. But they took a little bit more of a, you know, top down approach with, like, some sort of investor or owner where, you know, the the space is ground up and it's community driven, you know, it's member operated. So, you know, we just came together and and started, you know, crowdfunding, you know, it's like, can we make this, you know, dream become a reality with the, you know, resources and and talent in in our community here locally? And it has just been so rewarding to see. And, yeah, I'm of the belief, you know, where it's like, you create your own luck through hard work and, you know, as, you know, that would that would have it. You know, we were able to move into a a beautiful building and and really see the the mission of the space, you know, come to life here. And so we just moved in here in, 101, October 1, and it's been phenomenal. Vibes are, you know, extremely high. Everybody's chipping in and and contributing. Val, you're a you're a huge part of that. You don't give yourself, enough credit. But, it it really just I think it was a show, like, what individuals can do when when they're motivated and they have something, you know, they mutually care about. And because, you know, it's a it's a team effort. It's like no one person, you know, could do all this by ourselves. So it's like utilizing the different skill sets of our our members and your volunteers Yeah. To make it all happen. And so we're really trying to, you know, make this a mission. You know, our mission embodies a lot of the values of Bitcoin, you know, individual agency, you know, privacy.
We're trying to open source as as much of what we've put together as possible. You know, our bylaws, you're a nonprofit. So how do you you file one of those? Because we wanna make the next Citadel that much easier to to open. So it's truly something special. I cannot be more excited to to do a little part of it, and be a little part of it myself. But, extremely bullish on the space. If you haven't heard of it, check out our socials. Valerie's got the website up here. It's a great project. Yeah. Let me put it up here. Captions. Hold on. Oh, yeah. That's a visual of the website. So it's denver.space
[01:13:52] Unknown:
for everybody listening if you can't see what's on the screen. I know it's super cool. And, I mean, this is what I love so much, too, again, about our friends and family and Bitcoiners. You know, it's like we wanna open source everything. We want everybody to, like, Here's the playbook. Okay, add to it. Do what you want. Okay, let's talk about what worked, what didn't. Okay, you're in this environment with these types of people. This works better here. Okay, let's experiment. So it's not like, oh, we're so closed doors and everything's like, oh, we don't want anybody to know. It's like, we want Bitcoin to succeed and thrive, you know, because it's love. And, I mean, I think Bitcoin is love. And it's one form of love. And the more love, the better. Right? What kind of world do we wanna live in? We wanna live in a world of love.
But I think it's super cool because we're we're we're sharers, you know, but and we're competitive with ourselves. It's like, how can we make it better? It's not a zero sum game of you when I lose, I you know, etcetera. So it's like, it really is this beautiful win win, culture and and subculture. And I think that's what's so cool is, like, when people show up together physically, it's intimidating. You know, I was just doing this interview with Ben, Ben Worman before this and he was asking me about women, right? And we talk a lot about, you know, there's not as many women, obviously, as men in, the Bitcoin space or in many spaces for that matter, you know, finance and whatnot.
And so, but Bitcoin is something that's ubiquitous. Like, everybody needs to use If you're a mom, it's important to know what Bitcoin is for your family. To teach your children fiscal responsibility and financial literacy is very, very important. It's not just, okay, men get to do all this stuff and women are over here and okay, honey. Because, unfortunately, as you know, we're still not there yet in this utopia, but there are situations where women have to, escape a domestic violence situation or something. And so having Bitcoin and the understanding of how to use it safely so that you don't get attacked because you're saving to try to escape, it's important that women take, you know, ownership of their financial sovereignty as well, even in a marriage and a partnership, you know, because, God forbid, you know, something goes sideways, you know, and so we really wanna make sure people understand about sound money. And so building the Denver space and having an opportunity for families to come and having an opportunity for kids and after school programs and women and whoever, you know, to show up, it's very satisfying to be in a room with people versus a Zoom call versus just, you know, a Discord space or a Telegram space that feels impersonal and kind of scary, you know? And so I'm so impressed with you guys, like, making that happen.
Like, it's like, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to see all the before and afters of people's lives because they got to go to the the space in Denver that you guys built. Like, imagine the possibilities of the before and after transformation. Oh, Oh, it's gonna be crazy. And we're just getting started, which is a beautiful part. Yeah. I mean, it it is. I'm, like, I'm, like, oh, I'm gonna cry. And I know the space is, like, right near a school, you know, and you think about, like, people thinking about new opportunities to become developers or to become entrepreneurs and all the little things that you can do in that these four walls. These gorgeous they're gorgeous, by the way. Are you in like, I saw the the sliding door. Are you there? I am in this space. Yeah.
Oh, well, like, cool. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's so neat. And I'm I just it's it's hope, you know? Like, when you walk in, you feel hopeful. Like, it feels like it's a hopeful place, a hopeful space. So congrats. I mean, what's what's on the agenda? Tell everybody what's happening. Like, give them a a heads up of what's happening at the Denver space in the near future.
[01:17:49] Unknown:
Absolutely. So we're starting to roll out a bunch of events. Our opening week will start, November 14th with, one of our you know, we we can't do this alone. We have, 4 founding corporate sponsors, Unchained, Casa, FETI, and Compass Mining. Yeah. We did. Yep. This is our calendars, our public, event calendar. I think our most, recent event coming up is I'm actually hosting event on 10/24 with Matt Dines of Build Asset Management and Rocky Wold of Unchained. We're talking about the financialization of Bitcoin. I think that's gonna be really cool event meant to, you know, explain how the best of TradFi is coming to Bitcoin, how we can deepen Bitcoin capital markets. But, the fun space stuff, it will be coming, we'll be doing our opening, week in about mid November. We're kicking that off with, Compass Mining technical event on 14th, and then you'll be having, a hopefully event on 15th, and then our opening party on 16th. So still need to update the calendar. There's a lot to do. You know? All sorts of good stuff. I know. It's gonna be so great.
[01:19:04] Unknown:
I know. I'm really, really excited for this in book clubs and the women's stuff. There's all sorts of great things happening, guys, and so make sure you go figure this out. So does tell, you know, people who are listening, obviously, not everybody's listening that are from Denver, but do people have to be a member to go to all of these events? Like, if there's, like, a open thing on the calendar, can people show up and be a part of it, like, in a meetup?
[01:19:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. A lot of the events are open to the public. A handful of events will be, you know, member only. There's like a social club aspect of the space, which I'm, you know, very bullish on. I think you will see like the rise of, you know, social clubs again, you know, post COVID, that's a trend I'm bullish on. And, you know, that's, you know, some offerings, you know, value propositions we have to our members is having, you know, exclusive events, but, we're our educational nonprofit. So a big mission of ours is to, you know, help grow Bitcoin adoption, you know, specifically in our local community, but then outsourcing as much as possible. So, you know, they can expand, you know, past just, you know, Denver or the front range. So a lot of our events will be, you know, open to the public, and you were just showing, like, the public event, calendar as well. So if you are in the area passing through, you know, I think that's another huge, benefit of, you know, being in Denver, having a massive airport, you know, a lot of people coming out to enjoy the mountains at a different time of year. Please check our calendar and stop by for having something, you know, we're looking to bring Bitcoiners together from, you know, around the world.
[01:20:32] Unknown:
That's gonna be so fun. I know I was like, I can't wait for people who are going on their holidays and ski adventures or something. And I'm like, okay. Stop at this space on your way to to Aspen or Vail or something. You know? Like, come come see everybody and check it out. It's so cool. It's just such a neat I love, you know, the different pop ups of all these little communities everywhere and then some physical, some not. It's just so cool that everybody's just taking it in into their own hands to be builders and creators, you know, and that's what's so cool about the ethos and the culture of of Bitcoiners. So it's so cool. Any final words, Wyatt? I want people to be able to come find you at yattorkedot com for those of you who can't see what's on screen right now. And you can also follow Wyatt at wroorkonx.
I'll have all this stuff in the show notes and everything, you know, in the Denver space, denver. Space too. Any I know we talked a lot about a whole bunch of different subjects. Like, I just I feel like, you know, I'd love to hear some words of wisdom to younger folks or people who are, you know, interested in learning about Bitcoin. You know, what do you what would you say to them right now?
[01:21:41] Unknown:
Absolutely. No. Thank you so much for having me, Val. This is a a ton of fun. I was happy to to chop it up with you and you feel very fortunate for this this opportunity. But, you know, I would just, you know, encourage everybody to find, you know, a moral worldview that and adopt a moral worldview that is going to guide them through the the good and the bad times. You know, it's like suffering and and challenges are innate, you know, in our human experience, we shouldn't shy away from those. We shouldn't give up our individual agency because, you know, we experienced those. That's just, you know, a part of, you know, our own individual stories. So the more we have to to fall back on, you know, outside of, you know, Bitcoin, you know, with interfaith communities, within our families, the stronger, you know, we can rise as as a unit. So I would, you know, encourage people to to seek out, you know, a moral worldview that will help you get through, you know, the the the challenges you will ultimately face.
[01:22:36] Unknown:
Wow. I love that, Wyatt. That's, like, the best advice ever. I know my, my son has this spiritual vitamins book on the next on his bed, you know, and every day, it's like a little, thing from the Bible. And I went in today and looked at what was on October 16th and it was about, you know, when you feel like giving up is the best time to just give it over to God and God's got you, you know, and don't. Because we do. We all sometimes feel like, screw it, you know? And I've been there multiple times in my life. And, it's just like, no, this is a gift. This is a gift for you to get closer to your, you know, whatever you believe in, whatever God you believe in. If you believe in the universe, nature, whatever it is, like, your faith, your path, your path to to love and God is is so important. Your path to living a value led life, a value driven life. And it's it's like, that's what keeps me going too, Wyatt. You know, like, my connection with God is the most important relationship in my life. And Absolutely. It's so beautiful. And I keep learning each day, and I'm like, oh, right.
I'm not doing any of this. It's through the grace of of god, you know, that I get to go do what I do. So so, yeah, it's it's so important. I love that advice. It's the best thing ever. So thanks. And, oh my gosh, thanks so much for sort of taking all your time and your wisdom and your article is great. You guys, I'm gonna have this. And there's a whole bunch in there that, you know, we didn't get to go over. And if you're, you know, still kinda new to Bitcoin, there, you know, really dissects, like, what sound money is and whatnot. And it's a great, great, great post. I love it. And, I'll put it in the the show notes and everything for people to read. But until next time and until I see you at the space, I'm just wishing everybody peace, love, and warm aloha, and thanks again for tuning in. And, we'll talk to you guys next time. Thank you so much, Wyatt. And thanks everybody from the space for making the space. You guys rock. Go Bitcoiners.
Alright. Aloha, everybody.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Wyatt O'Rourke's Journey to Bitcoin
Bitcoin and Catholicism: A Unique Perspective
Thank God for Bitcoin Conference
Bridging TradFi and Bitcoin
Humanity's Fatal Flaw: Centralized Money
Technological Gifts and Human Agency
The Fall of Civilizations and Market Signals
Deaths of Despair and Fiat Money
Family, Faith, and Financial Planning
Entrepreneurship vs. W2 Employment
AI, Technology, and Future Opportunities
The Denver Space: A Bitcoin Citadel
Upcoming Events at the Denver Space
Final Thoughts and Words of Wisdom
