DJ Valerie B LOVE Show

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In this episode, we dive into the world of venture capital and angel investing with Mike Jarmuz, co-founder of Lightning Ventures and CEO of Thunderfunder. Mike shares his journey from punk rock to venture capital, highlighting his passion for supporting startups, especially those in the Bitcoin space. We explore the concept of Thunderfunder, a platform designed to democratize investing in startups, allowing even non-accredited investors to participate in funding rounds.

Mike explains the challenges and opportunities in the current regulatory environment, discussing the importance of accredited investor status and how Thunderfunder aims to make investing more accessible. He also shares insights into the potential of Bitcoin and open-source projects, emphasizing the need for innovation and community support.

The conversation touches on the parallels between the music industry and venture capital, with Mike drawing on his experiences in both fields to illustrate the importance of nurturing talent and ideas. We also discuss the role of crowdfunding and the value-for-value model in supporting content creators and small businesses.

Throughout the episode, Mike offers advice for founders and investors navigating the current economic landscape, encouraging resilience and innovation. He also shares personal anecdotes, including his efforts to introduce his mother to Bitcoin and the importance of music in his life.

Join us for an engaging discussion on the future of investing, the power of community, and the potential of Bitcoin to transform industries.

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(00:00:16) Introduction and Guest Introduction

(00:01:09) From Punk Rock to Venture Capital

(00:02:00) Understanding Thunderfunder and Lightning Ventures

(00:07:24) Investment Regulations and Accredited Investors

(00:11:24) Crowdfunding and Supporting Local Businesses

(00:16:16) Ideal Candidates for Thunderfunder

(00:24:00) Open Source Projects and Investment

(00:31:34) Bitcoin Environment and Regulatory Challenges

(00:39:21) Bitcoin Friendly Banks and Business Operations

(00:46:23) User Experience and Adoption Challenges

(00:51:58) The Journey from Punk Rock to Venture Capital

(01:00:49) Value for Value and Supporting Creators

(01:04:00) Final Thoughts and Encouragement for Founders

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[00:00:16] Unknown:

Hey, aloha. Get ready for an epic episode. And if you love it, please share it. You know why? Because you got the love. Enjoy, my friends.  

[00:00:30] Unknown:

And Hopefully, everything's good.   Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Guess who's here with me? One of my buddies, Muz. He is somebody who went from punk rock to venture capital.   He has backed over 1500 companies as an angel investor.   He is the cofounder of Lightning Ventures and the CEO of Thunderfunder.   Holy cow, dude. You're a busy busy rock star. Welcome, Mike.  

[00:00:56] Unknown:

I am a Thunder.   Mhmm. We are busy these days. We are putting the fun in funding, or at least that's what we're trying to do. Oh, I like that. Funder.  

[00:01:09] Unknown:

Okay. So I found out about this when we were standing in line in Nashville,   and you're like, Val, check it out. I did this, and I didn't get to see your talk. So tell everybody what's you know, who you are and what's Thunderfunder, and why is it gonna make such a monstrous difference   for those of us who wanna invest in startups, especially Bitcoin startups.  

[00:01:26] Unknown:

Okay. And even if you don't want to invest in Bitcoin startups and have no desire to do that, hopefully, Thunderfunder is still a place where you like to hang out. Right? Maybe if you don't drink alcohol, but you, you know, you have friends that go to bars. Right? And you hang out with friends that go to bars. That's what we're trying to do with Thunderfunder. So even if you aren't really interested in, oh, man, I don't wanna sign up. I don't wanna invest.   You know? Maybe you can still get get rolling to network and find jobs or   put your project up there, do all sorts of other things. So,   yes, as my good friend, Val,   said, I am the man,   and my company was Lightning Ventures, right, which is still around. And we offered   the world's largest   Bitcoin focused angel investing network. Right? A group that you could join for free if you wanted to invest low amounts   into Bitcoin startups that you know and love, like Relay or CoinCorner   or Swan or Strike or Foundation Devices or whatever. If you wanted to get starting and get access to some of those companies, you would join Lightning Ventures.  

And we were able to put those investments out because I remember when I started investing   in, in early stage companies, it was very hard to find those deals. How do we find deals? How do I use things right? Whether it's flying cars or AI or all sorts of kind of things,   How how do I get those deals and who's sending them to me and whatever?   So if you're interested in Bitcoin deals, right, in Bitcoin startups and those companies, you would join Lightning Ventures and then you would get an hour deal flow and see. But those people had to be accredited. Okay? Accredited investors. And I do like to joke, everyone's accredited when you click the right button. Okay. Tell everybody what that means, Mazz. What does accredited mean? Well, okay. So back in the eighties, actual   this.  

Is they came up with this thing,   where they said, you know what? If you are not   of this status,   you cannot invest in private companies. Okay? And that status was determined on income.   Okay? So, right now, you basically have to have a $1,000,000.   Your net worth needs to be a $1,000,000, and that's excluding your primary residence. Mhmm. Right? One way that you can qualify or maybe you made   over $200,000   a year,   last year, and I love this part of the SCC's language, and you have the expectation   of making it this year. Right? So if you made 200 grand last year and you expect   to make 200,000 this year, then click the button   and you credit yourself   based on your income. And it it varies if you're actually married. I think it goes up to 300,000   for you and your spouse, etcetera. Right? And if you're a positive thinker like Val, right, and you have a positivity,   then if you made that 200 and some thousand last year and you're thinking positive, you darn well expect it,   to have missed you.  

So so then you click the button there. There's also some other new things. Right? Like, if you have a series 65   license, which anyone can get, right, you could actually just pass a test from FINRA.   Do a bunch of studying and have all kinds of fun. You get that 65 license yourself there, and you're accredited. There's a few other, ways to become accredited with some boys club   type of FINRA,   designations. It's actually new. They just put that in a couple of years ago. That didn't used to be there. It was pretty much, income only. But it's not based on experience or based on anything else. It's not like there's a test. Right? Which they're kinda that would be like a 1000000 times better. Right? If there was some generic test on the SEC's website and it was 25 questions,   and you passed that and you were then an accredited investor, that would be like so much of a better system. But the way the SEC designed it is is you click the button and you self certify.  

You're certifying yourself saying that you're an accredited investor, and that's, that's pretty much what's, what's expected, and that's the process for Lightning Venture. So we built that up. We did a bunch of great deals through there and did as much as as we could. But what about everyone else? What about everyone else that that that isn't comfortable clicking,   the right button? What can we do for them? And, you know, our number one request is people wanna invest using Bitcoin. Right? They want to be able to,   invest $500   into   strike. And you know what? Pay from their strike wallet or pay from, you know, in Bitcoin,   etcetera.  

And, you know, AngelList pretty much told us they're they're not gonna do that, and they have no desire to. Right? So Bitcoin's not coming to that platform. So so can we do some other things like that,   that might be pretty cool with pushing the envelope forward in how we, in how we fund deals. So that is when we launched Thunderfunder,   which is when we were in line chatting, catching up in Nashville. That's when we announced it.  

[00:06:28] Unknown:

Okay. Well, so then let's talk about, like, what is   like, what are the benefit? Like, here here's where I always get, you know, like, messed up with all of our stupid regulations. Right? Like, if I have x number of dollars or sats, I can go to any gambling casino   in the United States and go plop   $100,000   on RED,   and that's okay. But if I wanna go take my $100,000   and invest it somewhere,   the the government has to tell me that I'm capable of actually doing that. And so, you know, clearly, we have a difference between, you know, it's okay to go gamble your life away, but God forbid, you go invest in a company that you believe in and you can read, you know,   the documents that the company puts out. So can you help people understand like why, you know, what the model is that you guys are gonna be doing and and why, you know, it's gonna be beneficial for all of us little guys who don't have, you know, 1,000,000 of dollars on our balance sheet yet?  



[00:07:25] Unknown:

Well, first off,   it is pretty silly   that the government will allow you to buy something, an unlimited amount of something called dog with hat.   Yeah. That is that is allowed and perfectly acceptable.   But if you wanted to put $2,000   into CrowdHealth or Start9   or one of these type of companies,   oh, no. Absolutely. We can't allow that. And by the way, that's where a lot of money is made. That's where,   life changing money is made, is investing in a lot of these early stage startups, and there's about 35 disclaimers that you have to click that says, I understand I could lose all my money and the the the the the the the the the the the all the way down the line, and that certainly does happen too. Things definitely don't work out, but it is kinda silly that I can bet everything I own on a horse race.   Okay? And that is totally fine. I may not even have to show my ID,   to do that,   but I can't invest in start ups. So just like everything out there, right, it's a scam.  

Yeah. It's a scam. They're not looking after your best interest, even though their job is supposed to be to protect you. Right? And in a lot of ways, it it kind of prevents   retail people from being able to participate   in some of these really exciting things. Like, if you got a deal. Right? If you were around in 2013   and you were kinda dialed up and maybe you were in Lightning Ventures, if there was a Lightning Ventures or some of these other things, and maybe you've got a deal for Coinbase.   And backed out back when they just sold Bitcoin,   and you said, you know what? This sounds kinda cool. Like, I love Bitcoin, and this is like a Bitcoin exchange, and you put in a $1,000.  

That would hands down be, like, the best investment,   that you've ever made, period. Right? And who knew that they went on to be, you know, shitcoinery and everything else? But that was hands down the best investment of your life, whether you exited some along the way or whatever happened there,   for sure, even, like, outpacing,   Bitcoin,   over that time period, right, which a lot of those things have. Okay? So, you know, if you were kinda dialed in and you got some of these really cool out out there ideas, which is one of the things I love about angel investing in general and all kinds of things is you're like a living, breathing API for, like, really cool stuff.   So, you know, whether some guy is building a lawnmower that does some kinda   AI, you know, lawn cutting thing or whatever is going on in the world, you're, like, right there with the front seat of, like, what the trends are and what's going on and all of these kind of things. So I really I really love that stuff. So it it allows people to actually participate   and get involved and to to learn along the way too because there's a lot to learn both with what the founders learn and what the companies go through,   as well as your own angel investing education because, like, it takes a while.  



[00:10:18] Unknown:

Yeah. It does take a while. I remember we were having our conversation a couple weeks ago, and we were talking a little bit about,   you know, we've got some local businesses here, and we're trying to understand, you know, what are ways that we can all support local businesses instead of just everything gets directed towards, you know, the big box stores, the big box companies, Amazon, obviously,   you know, because the more creep that we get with all of these big companies coming in, you know, mom and pops are getting pushed out because they can't afford the rent. There's not enough traffic. There's not enough, you know, customers, etc. And we were talking a little bit about   there's, you know, in my town, there's a toy store. There's a, you know, mom and pop's kids toy store. And,   you know, the kids just love being able to go touch the store toys and look at them and everything. And I was like, what is a way that we could help these kinds of, you know, small businesses stay afloat? Hopefully, get bigger, of course.  

But like the crowdfunding model and getting people on board, like understanding like, I'm really interested in this kind of a business so I don't have, you know, a ton of money, but what if I can put $100 or $500 or my allowance into this? And so   that creates a lot more   intentionality   of where you're gonna shop. It also helps you wanna be a better,   supporter of that business perhaps, and you're gonna start marketing them and telling your friends, Hey, go check this stuff out. And so   rather than just, you know, Okay, I got my Schwab account and everything sitting over there in my my index funds, it's like, No, I'm actually   I'm a part of this. And so what's been your experience so far with people feeling like a shift in how they're they're promoting and celebrating the businesses that they're getting to invest in?  



[00:11:59] Unknown:

So that's great. It's great. It's a great question   to think about how do you align   your users and people with you. Right? These are the people who love your company. Right? Mhmm. But so what you were talking about with crowdfunding,   like, the word has gotten kinda jumbled,   kind of maybe on purpose. In fact, we had something on our website, on the Thunderfunder website in the final FINRA review, where it said you could learn about angel investing.   Okay. And they made us take that off.   Okay? Because they don't want to they made us take a lot of things off, by the way. But,   you know, just to conflate angel investing   with crowdfunding. But what is crowdfunding? Because people think of crowdfunding, and they think like, oh, Patreon.  

Mhmm. GoFundMe.   This lady has you know, her dog needs a surgery,   and this is going on over here, and this guy's making and there's all these kind of things and things like Geyser, which we invested in. Right? Crowdfunding.   Okay.   Donation based kind of things like Andy,   Andy from crowd health. Okay. Crowd health. Crowdfunding. Crowdfunding health care. Okay. What does that mean? Okay. And then it's gotten such a point where they kinda try to call it equity crowdfunding   to, like, distinguish that, like, hey. This is crowdfunding   under a certain   regulation,   right, that FINRA allows,   okay, companies to raise from, but, you're actually getting equity.  



[00:13:26] Unknown:

Okay? A big difference.  

[00:13:28] Unknown:

And there's a lot of creative ways to do this. There's there's companies, that are doing reg CF rounds for companies where it's just debt. Right? So if you were an investor and you wanted to get, you know, a certain percentage equity and this lady owns, you know,   a dozen,   juice bars and she wants to open a dozen more, right, and she agrees to these terms and a payment,   that's like another way that you can invest. Right? You can do it with with debt and you can do it with interest and all these other things, but we're doing it with, like, high growth startups. Right? A lot of these companies   are   not paying dividends. Okay? And we wanna keep it open. We might be able to do something really cool with mining companies   where you do get a dividend. And, like, we're looking at a lot of other really cool things that aren't just that.  

But if you look at some of the larger companies that did these raises, like substack just did 1.   Mercury, the bank just did 1.   There's a lot of others. Right? So why would substack do that? Right? Substack is, you know, a unicorn,   and they have all this money and everything else. Why would sub stack   do a reg CF round   and raise, you know, I don't know, $8,000,000   or so from from their fans? Okay? Because it gives your fans and the people who use substack and love it and publish on it and whatever. It gives them a chance to invest   a couple of $100   and be further aligned with your success to succeed.  

Right?   So that's really cool. That's really powerful. And then, of course, as a founder, you get access to that list of folks. Right?   If, you know, a 1000 people or a 100 people   invest a $1,000,   those are a 100 people who probably love your business. Right? And that's only a $100,000.   So you get to utilize those folks and and do things with them. So,   in in as far as Bitcoin startups go in the reg CF, I mean, we're breaking new ground here. I mean, this is this is it.   Maybe there's a couple of Bitcoin startups out there. Actually, in Europe,   they have a similar   reg reg CF,   law in Europe. I believe Relay did around, and I think Coin Corner did around.  

And, you know, they did it on one of these other type of generalist platforms where there's, like, a 100 things on there, and they're doing everything. It wasn't really focused   on what they were doing. But I think if you asked them if it was worth it, I think they would tell you that it was a ton of work, and it didn't really fully meet their   expectations   for how it how it went. But all in all, it was still it was still worth it. So I'm hoping that we can improve on that   on that,  

[00:16:12] Unknown:

on that status quo because that's pretty much what what everyone thinks after going through it. And so I remember when we were talking, you said it's not just like, yeah. I'm gonna go put up my business, and I wanna go raise some money just as as simple as we could do on Patreon or Geyser and whatnot. Like, people have to kinda jump through quite a bit of hoops to make this happen. What kind of businesses are ideal candidates for Thunderfunder?  

[00:16:35] Unknown:

So we're focusing on, of course, open source companies,   right, which is a little bit outside of what Lightning Ventures was doing.   So there could be some noster stuff in there. Maybe there's a couple of noster clients,   that are businesses that we were looking at through Lightning Ventures or we wanted to do,   there. Maybe there's,   other things like Federated Computer or Star 9. Right? Not necessarily Bitcoin startups,   but are in that world. Okay.   Something like maybe we can do some later stage things. Maybe we can get some of those later stage companies that we were able to do through lightning ventures. Maybe we can get a strike offering on there. Wouldn't that be great?   Right.  

In a way to   for strike to raise   $5,000,000 from the plebs.   Okay.   And that's not just US people, but that's,   globally because we're allowed to take investors that are outside the US. Right, with some limitations there. Alright. The companies have to be US based on the license that we we have right now.   So, you know, that would be really cool to   leverage everyone that could wanna invest in your company. And they're getting   ultimately maybe not the exact same, but very similar   terms as the suits. Right? Those evil those evil people out there. Right? The pension firms,   okay, and the university of x y z,   and, this fund and that fund and x y z capital partners and all those kind of people are investing in this strike round. And it would be really cool if Jack Mahler's right afterwards said, hey, and now we're gonna open up this pleb round. I think that would be pretty cool. I love pleb round. That's we needed, like, do some fun with pleb round for,  

[00:18:19] Unknown:

some promo.   Just it it's so important, I think, that   people start to get their their their hands in the companies and their hands in business. And so a lot of us, even with Bitcoin, a lot of people are like, I'm just gonna huddle and stick it over here and go get on with my life, and I don't wanna do anything.   And that's fine. That's not it's not for everybody to go, you know, turn into a psychopath like us,   you know.   But I think the more that you touch things and get involved with it, obviously, the broader   your perspective gets on life. And then you can start thinking about other opportunities for your own business, your own passion, your own career, your own purpose, your own mission. And so,   what's the max that I think you had said that there was   a max that people could raise in this kind of a CF thing.  



[00:19:07] Unknown:

So,   the max is actually   $5,000,000 a year   for each company.   So you could do that all at one time, or you could do that over a few sessions. Right? Maybe you you raise a million, and then you wanted to go back and raise a little bit more.   But the the max is 5,000,000.   But there are other things. Right? There's this thing called reg a and reg a plus, like these mini IPOs where you can raise tons of money,   20 to, I think, maybe even $75,000,000,   for some of these type of things. So, that's quite a bit down there. We actually don't have a license to do that. A reg CF funding portal, which is what we are licensed to do, we can just do reg CF offerings. Right? We can just do reg CF offerings.   But,   you know, if we were to get a full broker dealer license in the future, then we could think about doing some of these these other sort of offerings as well.  



[00:20:04] Unknown:

Okay. Amazing. And so so we've got your website pulled up here, thunderfunder.com.   Tell everybody, like, why you know, if they sign up, is this just for getting information about new possible investments or what's currently happening? What are they signing what are people signing up for or logging in? Well, that's a good question. What are people signing up for?  

[00:20:25] Unknown:

Well,   we don't have a live deal yet, but we're working on it right now, and we're getting that in place. Right? It looks like,   LNbits   will still be our first deal. We're working on getting that live very soon.   BringIn is another company.   BringIn,   that is that is close as well.   And we're talking   to some other later stage companies. We're talking to Blockware Solutions, which is a monster of a company.   Jolts,   won the, pitch contest, one of the tracks in Nashville.   Cool. We're getting ready to start the process of onboarding them.   And we're we're making our way through through the process of getting these deals live. So in in the time being,   what we're doing is we're trying to complete a profile section   and some messaging   so that   maybe a community   can start.  

Okay? So,   if you wanted to set your profile to public or private,   if you wanted to put in your social stuff there, if you were a content creator, maybe you listed your shows or,   in RSS feed or whatever.   Okay? Maybe we got you some kind of badge for being content creator there. Okay? Whether you were a founder or a builder, whether you're technical and you have a project that you're working on and you're looking   for maybe some funding or some people or some co founder speed dating or something else. Okay.   Making the platform   discoverable,   okay, for people to find each other and just get a basic profile   set up. That's what we're working on right now. We've got a message box. It's almost completed,   to where people could send messages back and forth on the platform.  

And,   you know, that's that's really what we're what we're also working on too is while there are no deals live, how do we make this,   platform that people you know, what if we can pipe in Bitcoin or jobs? What if we can bring in some of that feed   of jobs on the platform and just kinda have it in front of you,   as another play? Maybe we can add a troll box. We're kinda joking about adding a little troll box.   What's a troll box? It's just a little box that you have in the corner that you can log in and start to just chat and chat away.   It used to be, Poloniex   and I think BitMex. I don't know if they still have a troll box or not, but, it's just kind of a funny little box there. So we'll see.  

But, yeah, that's it. So we're putting a little bit of work into getting the platform up and running and the profiles and everything else. We're working diligently on getting these deals live.   And, and we we're just getting started. We're just getting  

[00:23:17] Unknown:

started. I love it. And I know it's such a cool   I mean, if we don't have businesses that are starting to understand whether they're Bitcoin businesses or businesses that wanna start   integrating Bitcoin into their, you know, into their workflow. It's like we're gonna still be in this cycle echo chamber forever.   What about   what about education companies?   You know, are you guys doing any, like do you think that would be something that you would be investing in? It's just is it are you always looking for companies that can get an exit? Like, what are the again, trying to understand, you know, what   like, I'm I have a couple of projects. I'm like, am I would I wanna go, you know, go through all this stuff with UnderFunder, or am I just gonna be better off just getting some zaps and donations on Geyser?  



[00:24:01] Unknown:

Well, there's a big difference between,   raising   from investors   or doing equity crowdfunding versus raising on Geyser Yeah. Or a donation code or something else. And a lot of the education stuff   really works better,   under the donation model. You know, like something like a me premier Bitcoin.   Totally.   Or, you know, I know,   wiser,   is a flawless,   fun app to learn Bitcoin stuff.   I know that they're, they're trying to get some investors right now. Maybe they did. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't, But those type of,   documentaries,   right? Educational   tools for Bitcoin, they really work better on a geyser.  

It's not really like an investable,   thing. It's very hard with education.   So,   you know, you know, we, we really want to make sure that we are   putting the best possible   deals that we can on our platform.   Right. So we, we would rather focus on the quality   and not the quantity.   So if you if you go to Wefunder or Start Engine or Republic or any of the big $1,000,000,000 US   reg CF portals,   there's gonna be 100 of things that are coming at you the minute you land on that page, and it's just, like,   way too much.   Okay. It's way too much. It's everything in the world that you can imagine because   that's how they make money. Right? They get you on the platform and then however you do, however you do. Like, we want to offer, like, when we were running the syndicate   full time,   quality deals,   quality deals. Those companies you know and love that are doing great, are they doing around right now? Can we get voltage?  

You know, Graham, if you're listening,   can we get voltage to list on thunder funder? You know, lightning labs, if they were putting together around, if,   Liz, if you're listening,   if,   if they're putting together a round. Right? Maybe after that closes, let the plebs. You know? Something like a block stream. Right? Some of these bigger companies that you might wanna really invest in, this isn't like funding   the Broadway musical about Satoshi with the 3 d glasses and everything up. I love your ideas, Belle. I love it. Alright? I can't wait. I can't wait for opening night,   Satoshi Opera. Okay? I'm all about it. Okay? It's never happening.  

That may be a tough one for thunder funder with with the initial goals of what I'm thinking about.   Yeah.   But   that isn't to say that there aren't media companies and profitable   things that could raise. Right? Like, I wanna leave it open. I wanna think about the future. What if Bitcoin Magazine wanted to do a deal? They're certainly a real company. They've raised from investors before. Like, it would be they're the perfect company to do a reg CF funding,   deal because you can you can advertise it publicly. They could put it out to all their people.   Certainly a good deal on a piece of the Bitcoin   conference and everything else that they're doing. That would be   great. And as far as, like, podcasters   go, there is something called an RSU. It's a revenue sharing unit. I've never invested in one of these type of things, but it is possible,   that a a podcaster   or some,   some content creator   could,   monetize   their channel and everything that they have and raise on a on a reg CF funding portal. That that is possible that it could happen.  



[00:27:38] Unknown:

But you haven't heard of anybody doing that particular one? I have. There's a whole platform that specializes  

[00:27:45] Unknown:

in that.   I don't know how they're doing. I mean, to be quite honest with you, like, I don't want anyone to think about it, but it's it's like they they they are doing it. It is possible to   own a piece of a podcaster,   according to you know, I I I haven't seen it anywhere else, but,   we we just wanna be innovative with this new license that we have. Right? Because Bitcoin's innovative, and we're taking something new like reg CF. It's only been around for 12 or so years,   and let's put it together and see what happens.  

[00:28:19] Unknown:

Yeah. I think it's it's important that we get the money in the hands of people who are gonna deploy it intelligently. I wanna go back to the open source part because,   you know, we were   talk I was talking with Abubakar about the, you know, the difference between funding an open source project versus funding,   you know, just a regular project,   that's, you know, behind closed doors with everything. What   how do you see that happening? Like, what what open source projects are really,   getting traction and getting investment? Because we obviously have open sats, and there's grants that are being given to,   open source developers and the projects. How does that work in a for profit mode?  



[00:29:00] Unknown:

Well,   You know, Bitcoin is open source, right? So we have a lot of, open source protocols. We have companies like Galloway, which is open sourcing their entire,   stack to run a financial company like,   Dread out of, Jamaica is, you know, using Galloway to launch,   Flash is Jamaican exchange. You know? So there's a lot of open source there. There's Federated Computer, one of our portfolio companies, not a Bitcoin company,   but they have basically,   an open source   version of the Google Suite.   Right? Everything that you would need there with your docs, calendar, whatever whatever. And if you're tired of every time you add an employee, you have to pay another $13 a month to Google just for an email address.   Yeah. You can pay them once and have it forever for free.  

And then you have to make the nice adjustment   of using all of the open source stuff instead of Google, which we've been playing with and we often joke about. But,   so there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of cool open source,   like Noster for sure.   You know, it's nice to open it up a little bit beyond kind of a Bitcoin only.   And we're in a FINRA   area now.   So it's a little bit different. It's it's,   it's great that we have an open source focus   and Bitcoin falls,   falls into that for sure.   But you know, I'm learning as I go.   I really am. And you just look at things that have happened, like,   you know, Linux, Red Hat, you know, was purchased by IBM for like $36,000,000,000   something like that. Right? That's so that's open source technology,   that was acquired. You know, MongoDB,   is a publicly traded company. They're worth $20,000,000,000,   something like that. And that's an open source company. Docker. Right? If you know devs who who use Docker, every dev uses Docker, runs Docker containers, and yada yada. This is open source technology. They're a very,   high valued private company.  

There's a there's a lot of them. Right? So from from everything. And I I I don't understand. I need to have Matt Hill from start 9 really break it down to me. But, you know, literally every banking software, the Android phone, if you use it, the infotainment unit,   in the car nowadays,   pretty much, you know, open source touches every part,   you know, or many parts of your life that you just don't really think about.   So I'm learning I'm learning as I go.  

[00:31:34] Unknown:

Very cool. Let's,   let's talk about the Bitcoin environment right now and what's happening. And,   obviously, we're looking at, you know, Simply Bitcoin just got   deplatformed   off of YouTube and, apparently, they're back on now after all this nonsense. So that's fabulous.   However, it's just another indicator   again. Obviously, you know,   Pavel just got arrested from Telegram.   How are Bitcoin companies and creators gonna, you know, keep their asses covered,   you know, going forward? Obviously, we have Nasr. We have all these other   decentralized, you know, protocols that we can play with to put our content up. But it's like if we're a business,   are we are we at risk of just all of a sudden we're getting our doorknob saying, oh, you were, you know, using cryptography or you we don't like what you said, so you're under arrest. Like, how are you advising businesses to stay safe in this very, very hostile environment?  



[00:32:35] Unknown:

Well, I don't advise anyone.   Okay.   No. But,   we,   every company that we're, that we've invested in is a lawful and legal company.   So   you have to stay legal   and the laws change. Right now in Europe, they're bringing in the MICA regulations. Changes changes everything for them. You know? What is it? KYC ing yourself if you have, your own hardware wallet or whatever is going on with their with their MICA regulations.   Here, 3 and a half year what MICA means? It's m I c a. Right? I don't know what it what it actually   stands for, but that's the European   regulations that are coming in that allow that make it so companies like Relay. Right? The KYC lite,   sort of company where you could just, you know, no sign up required,   download it, you know, do an instant payment and get paid in Bitcoin,   that you can't do that anymore.  

So they all have to kind of comply with being registered somewhere, and   that's that's being phased in now.   So that's what's going on over there. And then over here, three and a half years ago with the regime change here, it's just been choke point 2.0. It's been so hard to operate. We had companies that we invested in.   Everyone has a plan till you get punched in the face.   And that's pretty much what happened if you were a Bitcoin company,   here in the US for the past few years.  

[00:34:06] Unknown:

You've just been been punched in the face. And Can you explain what tell give me an example just so the listeners know what that means, and they can look out for that.  

[00:34:15] Unknown:

Okay. So let's just say that you were,   selling gift cards. Okay? You had a really cool   innovative solution where you could live off Bitcoin, and you could buy these,   bit   debit   reloadable,   debit cards with Bitcoin   and this really cool business.   Okay? And maybe there was some Visa loadable cards or whatever, but that was your business, and you were doing great.   And maybe you had your best month ever, and maybe you did   7 figures in volume. And life is great, and you have all these other plans, and you're gonna be fast tracked through Visa and this other thing, and you're gonna be a program manager, and you're gonna be able to go into all these jurisdictions, and everything's looking great for you. And then all of a sudden out of the blue, like, it's over.   Your bank just rugs you,   that you were relying on, and they say, nope. You're not a business anymore. You basically can't operate. You're done.  

What do you do? Your business goes from 7 figures   to 0   overnight.   And if you were a paranoid founder   who kept, you know, 3 years runway in the bank and knew that at any point in time, this could happen because that's the industry that you're in. If that was your stance, then   you started to figure it out. Do we leave the US? What's Mexico like? Oh my god. It's wild, wild west in this other part of the world. Like, we could be up and running there. Like, forces you to be nimble and look elsewhere and think about it. Right? What do we do to get to the US back online? How do we start up   new conversations with new banks? Right? And that's not a quick change. Okay? That's not just like a new car wash. Alright? It's a whole process   to to get one of them to to let you into their special club to start doing business. So it was those type of things over and over again. It was, hey, this is a really cool Fintech startup that wants to bridge the gap between, you know, what we know and use every day with ACH and,   transfers and all of these kind of things and checking account products and bill pay and wants to integrate Bitcoin stuff.  

And then,   no, you're not. And you're struggling for, you know, 18 months just fighting uphill to stay alive.   And maybe now just at the end of this cycle, they're starting to break through. Right? Coming back online, finding a way finally   to   get a sponsoring bank.   A lot of these banks were told, like, if you're dealing with any of these people, like, you're done. So it's like   the counterparty risk. Like, if you were a Bitcoin startup in El Salvador,   you couldn't open a bank account   in El Salvador because   the El Salvador bank is worried about losing their relationship with the bank in the US.  

Right? So there's, like, a crackdown over there where, like, Bitcoin is legal tender. Right? It's no easier to be, oh, I'm gonna go to El Salvador and start a Bitcoin business and open a bank account. Like, they had their own problems too.   So, hopefully, that's all changing.  

[00:37:22] Unknown:

What about so what are some Bitcoin friendly banks for people who are listening, who are thinking, like, I don't wanna get rug pulled if I start moving down this pathway?   Like, if you're a founder, you're starting a Bitcoin company, or if you're just what do you mean Bitcoin friendly banks? Well, I guess both. So if you're a founder, you're starting a company that's gonna be a Bitcoin related company. And second, if your,   if your business let's say, my company, I wanna have I wanna be able to accept Bitcoin and do BTC pay server, do whatever. And I want Bitcoin on, you know, you know, being able to accept it alongside fiat and all the other, you know, stuff that I can accept. So   just not that I'm a Bitcoin company. I just wanna accept Bitcoin into my,   my business model.  



[00:38:04] Unknown:

So accepting Bitcoin for your business is fine.   I mean, everyone should do that. Yeah. Absolutely. Everyone should do that. And then the reporting is on you. Right? There's there's no crackdown on that.   That's not problem. But, you know, if you wanted to open,   DJ Val's Bitcoin exchange   Oh, yeah.   And start doing really   then you would need all of those fun things.  

[00:38:31] Unknown:

Well, that's like money transmitter license stuff. Right? Is that what it the issues were that people were get running into? There's the MTLs in all 50 states that you could get yourself, and you could put that together maybe for $2,000,000  

[00:38:42] Unknown:

or so, and then you would own that process. Okay.   Or you contract with, like,   you know, banking as a service company here in the US that makes that easier for you,   with those MTLs and licenses. But you kinda, like, still need a bank if you're gonna offer card products or, like, those really cool,   things. And, you know, not everyone can get them right now. And hopefully, it only gets better. Hopefully, it only gets better.   Really,   I can't wait.  

[00:39:15] Unknown:

I can't either. I it's it's frustrating, but I feel like,   you know, these next couple months are gonna be a shit show. I think it is gonna get worse and weirder   as time goes on. I mean,   I don't know. I just I don't know what's going to happen when they start trying   to get this. I don't know. I'm scared of this election, Mike.   I'm not scared of the election. I'm scared of the day after   of like because it's just no matter who supposedly wins or doesn't win, it's going to be a giant, you know, chaotic scene. And I feel like there's gonna be a lot of,   just there's gonna be a lot of disruption in our businesses, and I feel like there's gonna be a lot of disruption in moving the needle forward for at least the next 6 months,   You know, as much as we wanna think like, yay. Things are they're paying attention. It's like they I don't know. Even with having Trump and Kennedy at the Bitcoin conference, I'm not a political person, but   it just seems like we're gonna be up against some weird   some weird shit.  

And I don't know. Just as a business person, I'm I'm like, is this the right time to go launch things? Is this the right time to keep going? And I'm like, it's always the right time. Move forward, I suppose.  

[00:40:23] Unknown:

Of course, it's the right time. Yeah. It's the best time. The best time. So you look at you, Mr. Positivity.   It is. It's the best time if you've survived this.   I think we're in good shape. And to be completely honest with you, a lot of our companies   are having record months and record quarters.   And maybe some, maybe, maybe some are in some trouble right now.   But a lot of companies   are doing well, whether it's like your SATs back   on everything that you own or when you purchase or whatever,   or the exchanges. I mean, I'm pretty boring. I love investing in kind of those boring type of companies,   you know, that are just like selling Bitcoin.  

And, like, slowly starting to offer, like, little products and services that are familiar to you. But, like, I can't pay my credit card bill from my Swan account   right now. Yeah. I can't you know, there's a lot of things that you can't do   just yet.   So,   let's see what this next,   phase offers. Also, like, if an Uber or if one of these type of companies is going to   adopt Bitcoin payments and integrate it, Like, what do you think they're gonna do?   Do you think they're gonna like build it from scratch? Do you think they're gonna contact an open node or IBEX pay?   Like what are they going to do?  

Or LightSpark   maybe,   you know, if TikTok was gonna implement Bitcoin ticking tipping, what would they do? Would they would they build it themselves or would they use a Breeze SDK   or something else? You know? So you just kinda have to think about, like, the future   for what this looks like. What do Bitcoin ATMs look like in the future? Are there Bitcoin ATMs in the future?   You know?   And there's re there's regular ATMs now.   You You know? Yeah. Why didn't the cannabis industry adopt Bitcoin?  

[00:42:24] Unknown:

I mean, it's it's, like, built for Bitcoin. You know? We have the medical card here in Florida. You go to the store. You're like, it's literally cash or, like, an ATM in the corner. Like, what are they doing? I know. I asked you know, that's funny. I was in Detroit, and I was at a store as well. And I was like, can you guys accept Bitcoin? And they're like, no. We can only do cash in your debit cards.   And I'm like, why can't you accept I just it doesn't make sense. Like, why can't we have this this layer in there? What it what would it be like I know I think I remember reading something that Elon is looking at getting money,   like MTLs in all the different states. And so it's like, is he gonna have some kind of,   you know, in app, you know, currency?  

Or is it for Bitcoin? Or is it for, you know, the dumb dog thing? Or you know what I mean? Like, how would that work if a giant app like TikTok or   or x or any of these, like integrated Bitcoin? Would they have to go through that whole process   that you said to get, like, the $2,000,000   money transmitter licenses in every state?   Well, that's every country. You know, how does it how would that work for these giant platforms?  

[00:43:29] Unknown:

Well, that's interesting. Is it a gray area, or is it black and white? Because Wallet of Satoshi, right, one of our beloved lightning   wallets that if you've been in the Bitcoin space, you love Wallet of Satoshi, at least its simplicity. I mean, if you wanna   a non custodial,   But, like, you know, it's a fun, easy   Yeah. Way to onboard somebody, and it just works.   And it's nice. Well, they pulled out of the US. They made that decision to leave the US.   And, I believe,   Blink,   the wallet, the formerly   Bitcoin Beach Wallet, also fantastic   user experience. Such a great phone wallet. If you're onboarding someone and they use the Blink Wallet, like, it just works.  

You're not terrified writing down 24 words and don't do this. I mean, it's just like, oh, link it to your email address. You know what I mean? And just and it works. Right? They made the choice to   leave the region and leave the area. You have things like Mutiny Wallet. I don't know if it was because of a regulatory thing. I don't know if there was in, like, what what was going on internally. Maybe people wanna do other things. I really don't know, but they're not in the US. Right? You still have Breeze here.  

[00:44:37] Unknown:

Phoenix wallet. I believe Phoenix on too. So So why What do we use? What are we what are people using? Are they just using   Strike and   Noster? Like, how are people like   because that's I use Strike. I had a Moon Wallet. I don't like Moon Wallet at all.   It doesn't seem to work when I need it to. But, yeah, it's like how how are they gonna keep moving forward if everybody keeps getting pushed out and pushed out and pushed out? Like, what can we use?  

[00:45:04] Unknown:

Well, I think they'll have to find a way. Right? So innovation will find a way where it was, like,   non custodial.   There was a way, and now it seems that people don't even don't really wanna challenge that right now. And is that how you end up getting arrested?   Is that how you end up getting taken down is in that gray area?   Yeah. It makes sense.   But I, I don't know. I think that,   they'll just have to, they'll have to, they'll have to make it legal or it'll just,   they'll just crack down on it. They'll figure out a way   to make you put in your name and a picture of your ID. If you're gonna have a speed wallet, I mean, I think the speed wallet makes you   KYC yourself or whatever.  

And strike is a great user experience. Like, it works great as a mobile wallet or whatever. And if you're not really concerned with privacy and knowing every   bartender tip and thing that you do,   then that's a great option for most people. But if you're, like, in defensive privacy   and want a,   you know, maybe use Zeus with your own note at home. Right. And that's like hours and hours   of good luck to you.  

[00:46:23] Unknown:

I know. I think a lot of do you think one of the barriers   to adoption or just certainly getting people's foot in the door   is just the fear and the complexity   of, you know, the seed phrases and, oh, I don't have customer service that I can call? Like, they're you know, it's like   phase 1 of onboarding a new user into the Bitcoin   space is like, okay, go to Coinbase or go to not that I want anyone to ever go to Coinbase, but, you know, go somewhere where you can feel like I can call somebody, you know. And then, okay, now we're gonna do self custody. Okay, now we're gonna run a node. Okay, now we're gonna go do some mining. Alright, now I'm starting a company, you know, etcetera, like, 5 stages of, you know, your Bitcoin journey.   What do you think the biggest thing that you've seen that people resist  

[00:47:10] Unknown:

and that they're scared of? I think it is still a pretty terrifying user experience. If you're gonna   go through,   setting someone up   with their first hardware wallet   and explaining that whole process to them. I still think that that's   really tough.   And it just takes a bit to learn,   right. Like   handling a firearm for the first time,   Probably a certain amount of terrifyingness.   It's holding that no matter how many 8 hour courses you've went through. Oh my god.   But that's that's,   definitely a part of it. And I just think that if you if you're starting small,   right,   my mom started small earlier this year, and she's doing great so far. And this Christmas, when she opens that brand new treasure,   we're gonna set it up together, and she's gonna have a whole new   what's mnemonic   seed phrase, and we're gonna go through all that  

[00:48:11] Unknown:

this year. So I'm looking forward to that. Tell I wanna hear a little bit more. I I love stories. Like, what was her tipping point where she finally agreed to say, okay, Mike. I'm gonna I'm gonna trust you and let you get me some Bitcoin or I'm gonna get some Bitcoin. Like, what   how many how many turns in the pickle jar did you have to do before she finally   submitted and said yes?  

[00:48:32] Unknown:

Many, unfortunately,   like, could have been a Bitcoiner a long, long, long time ago, and I didn't realize it. But what it actually took was just giving her a gift   that was Bitcoin.   Mhmm. And you have to sign in.   It was actually one of those swan,   gift things. Cool. And so you're gonna sign in, you're gonna fill out the thing, and then it's gonna be sitting in your account. Right? And then   seeing just kind of that   go up and watching it and then setting up a little recurring buy every week and just getting started slowly but surely,   that's that was a good move. So,   Bitcoin gifting, I think, is one of the best ways and not just, like, you know, having someone download a wallet and giving it to them. Right? That's that's fine too. But, like, you know, through a trusted exchange and, like, going on and Mhmm. Filling it out. Because once they're signed up you know, I got somebody downloaded the strike wall the other day. I was tipping a bartender.  

Don't like to do that, but whatever. Right? Let's get you the wallet or whatever.   And, you know, they linked all of their info. Like, I didn't have to do anything. I sent them, you know, the $10 tip. It was there.   And I went back to this bar this bar, it was a Kava bar,   2 or 3 times. And every time I would tip in Bitcoin to this person's strike wallet,   And the Bitcoin price crashed one day, and I went into the Cava bar and I didn't even say anything. The bartender looks at me and says, I bought the dip. And I was just like, oh, he's like, this person was sold. I didn't have to teach him anything. I didn't have to talk about buying. This was just like he figured it out himself and, like, that's what he did. You know? So I don't know. I think it's cool to set people up like that. It's hard to do that with a hardware wallet. Right now, I'm plugging in a USB device and what am I doing? I gotta do it's not just easy. It's like, oh, hey. The price is down today. I'm gonna buy  

[00:50:29] Unknown:

$20 worth or whatever. Well, and I think the cool thing too, like, when I was in Nashville, you know, I was trying to tip the,   what do you call it, the golf cart guy from from the,   the hotel, you know, and he was busy and it was just taking a little bit of time. And so I was like, you know, I'll be back here in the morning and download this app and then we'll figure it out and you're going to get, you know, $10 and I'll get $10. And he was like, Oh, cool. And then I'm like, And then you can orange pill all of your guys that are standing around here and you're going to give them $10 for signing up, you know. And so there was just that instant domino effect that they were all excited about because everyone was listening. They're like, Well, how do I do it? I'm like, All right, talk to your friend here who just went through the whole process. And so I think it's a fun way, especially in the service industry,   you know, for people to do that with each other. And it's easy, you know. And you're right. Like, people aren't going to go get a hardware wallet   necessarily, but almost every single person's got a phone, you know, and so it's easy to download these these quick apps. It might take a minute to get your driver's license up and all the stuff, but at least it's like, alright, here's the puppy in the hands of the person. So it's that it's important.  

I I know we're hitting the top of the hour here. Let's I wanna just circle back just and talk about you for a little bit, Mike, because Let's talk about you. Let's talk about you, brother.   How the heck did you go from punk rock to venture capital? Like, what that's an interesting bridge. And then, you know, and then we can wrap it up and, you know, give everybody some hugs and love and all that. Well, Bitcoin is punk rock for sure. It is. Oh, god. Is very punk rock. Mhmm.  

[00:52:06] Unknown:

I don't know. I just knew that I always wanted to work in music ever since I was very young. That was what I cared about. That was what I did, and I was that guy. Had a record label in high school.   Woah. Ran ran away from home when my parents told me that I couldn't run it, and I was forbidden to to run this record label at 16. I just got in my car and just drove off. What? Yes. I didn't know this about you. The too.   And, you know, they caved.   2 days later, they said, just come home. You can run your little record label or whatever you wanna do.   And, and that was good.  

So,   so yeah. And I just started booking concerts, and I lived above a pretty famous venue called the the Nile theater in Mesa, Arizona,   held about 1200 people upstairs,   400 people downstairs.   And, it was a really cool, fun,   you know, just,   it was it just it's almost seems so different now thinking about where we're at in post COVID, like, right now,   the way people are   I mean, no cell phones.   Like, going into a room that holds 700 people, but there's, like, 1300   in there.   And you're just wall to wall. It's just the walls are sweating, just melting like like like your belt. Your belt is, like, warped, whatever you're wearing.   Okay? And there's no cell phones. Everyone's present in the moment.  

Okay? People jumping off stages,   and   nobody   suing anybody,   and nobody   getting upset.   And there were only 2 restrooms,   And it was a whole another type of, like, very special   time.   And, you know, I think that venture capital   is   like that with what is artist development,   which is if you're doing a   it's 50 people. There's 50 people in the basement. For the first time, we booked dashboard confessional.   There's 50 people there. He was on a bar stool by himself. And next time, there was   300, and then pretty soon, there's a few 1,000. And at that point in time, you just can't take them anymore. Right? Clear Channel, Live Nation, House of Blues, whoever. Like, they're gonna get the tour and you're not, but you just take them as far as you possibly can on that ride. Right? Tane those   those relationships. So I think that there's a little bit of a,   of   a parallel there between the music business and   early stage running an early stage startup or venture investing in them.  



[00:54:48] Unknown:

I love that. I think that's a great analogy, and, it it does make sense. I know, obviously, I'm a DJ and have been a DJ for a long time, and   I just feel like there's so much   things that music can do for us in our hearts, our souls as a community, as, you know, in our relationships and our daily lives. You know? And   if we're not really utilizing this one tool that has been given to us, you know, by God, Spirit, Universe, Fred, whatever you call all that.   We're missing out on on a color   in the crayon box. You know what I mean? And it's like, why would you not wanna have music in your life and have an integral in your life? And you obviously have brought something really special to   all of Bitcoin events lately. And Satoshi, Rakimoto, you wanna tell everybody what that is? And it was so it's so awesome what you're doing.  



[00:55:36] Unknown:

I feel like we should do more Rakimotos.  

[00:55:39] Unknown:

We should do more we should just do a Bitcoin music festival. I keep getting knocks on the my dear. Are you gonna race for that on Thunder Thunder? I don't know. Is that is that a thunder thunderable   thing that we could do, a Bitcoin? Well, see, this is the thing, and I've got I've got a proposal I'm starting to work on and doing, like, a little mini tour, but I'm like, okay. That's just for Val and some videos and some maybe some dancers or something. But, like,   doing a whole tour in a festival for Bitcoin music, it's like, is that something that was   is there a product market fit for that? And can we get enough people, you know, to go that's gonna make it, like   I've never done a festival tour or anything like that. I mean, that would be fun.  



[00:56:19] Unknown:

I think making music,   an integral part of every Bitcoin   conference or event is, like, the best first start. And I think that you are championing  

[00:56:31] Unknown:

that entire movement. I think that We are. We are. High five to us. We're rocking it together. Val. Is for the promoter. You're letting us do it.  

[00:56:39] Unknown:

Val knows that I'm an old man, and I like timeless classics.   So she usually saves a few of those for me, easy on the techno and all of that.   But yeah. So Satoshi Rakamoto is just a fun thing that happens. It's a fun show, and we have Bitcoiners or just people because that's the cool thing about Bitcoin. Right? Is everyone's so unique and cool. I used to do these Bitcoin chess tournaments,   And you just set up 5 chess boards at a Bitcoin conference, and, like, they just go. They like, everyone will just do like, that will just you don't need to tell people   what to do. And that's what we kinda figured out with a stage full of gear   at a Bitcoin conference. The next thing you know, we got Canute and Gabe Higgins. And who'da knew, Samson Mow had a had a angst phase with some Nirvana and stuff,   back then. So so there's just a lot of people who come out. And,   if you know how to play music or wanna play music or whatever level, maybe you just wanna sing, like Nico's girlfriend, Sophie. Oh, god. Or Giacomo's wife, Mir. She's a professional vocal coach. We found that out. So she's know that. Oh, wow.  

She usually sings quite a bit at the, at the Rocamoto. So, depending on your skill level, right, if you just played   house of the rising sun for 3 months when you were 17,   we will make that happen for you. You're gonna put up   you're gonna rock that house of the rising sun preferably, hopefully, with a live band,   backing you and supporting you. So, so that's pretty much it. We've had a few really good events. I'm so bummed we didn't do one in Riga,   just now. Like, I wish I could've went. I mean, I have FOMO from that. I'm sure you do too. Nope. FOMO licious.  

[00:58:21] Unknown:

But Are you gonna be in El Salvador?  

[00:58:24] Unknown:

I'm thinking that I'm skipping El Salvador this year. What what else what's on your your, your I am the password.   We have to get this platform rolling. I know. I hear you. We can rock and roll later.   I'm gonna go to Tabconth,   because I think I had, an,   I think I had something get accepted   where I'm gonna be able to chat a little bit about crowdfunding,   for your open source project. So I'm excited about that.   I absolutely hate Atlanta.   But,   you know, now it's a Georgia Tech campus. It's gotta be better that, like, it was at this terrible CNN   building before the last few years. It was, like, literally the worst place ever. So I'm so excited that it's a Georgia Tech campus.  

And, so I'll be at that. And then I think I'm gonna hit Amsterdam, although I just mailed in my passport.   You know, I just got it renewed. I paid for the expedited. So that's in October. And I'm there's talk of a,   of a Rocamotto in Amsterdam. It's in the works right now, and we gotta get you spinning if you're going.  

[00:59:26] Unknown:

Well, I would love to. I know. I might be able I might be in Portugal at the,   the 1st week in August or October. I'm like, well, Amsterdam is not that far from Portugal, I heard, so maybe I can bust over there for,   for a bit. I sure would love to do that. And do you have just I wanna do you have, like, 3 or 4 minutes to talk about value for value?  

[00:59:46] Unknown:

Are you?  

[00:59:48] Unknown:

Of course. Yay. Well, it's not for me. It's for the listeners. So,   obviously, we're talking about music, you know,   and   people need to have as many, revenue streams as possible. What what are your thoughts on, you know, value for value using Bitcoin for content creators? Whether you're a podcaster or a musician,   do you think it's just a little hype cycle, or do you think it's something that could be a long term,   way? Not that it's gonna be the only source of revenue for artists and creators, but what do you think about value for value?  

[01:00:21] Unknown:

Well,   we invested in   fountain.   Yeah. So we ran a syndicate for fountain. Love Oscar. He was actually one of the first companies that we talked to before we even had it together,   with lightning ventures and you know what he's doing. And   by the way, like fountain just works.   When I had that lightning ventures thing and we were doing more content,   an ad on fountain   really worked.  

[01:00:48] Unknown:

And we Really? Yeah. We and yeah. To promote your show on fountain, like, it absolutely works. Oh, dude. I need to know this. Okay. We're doing a podcaster summit with with Barry from Pod Home and Oscar from fountain and then Adam Curry on September 28th.   And so, oh, I wanna I've never done I've never paid for an ad for anything ever. But you think that's a good way to promote your shows?  

[01:01:11] Unknown:

Well, I can just tell you that it worked. And we were trying it because we were investing in Fountain, and we were trying it just to see. But you can set it to promote no matter what your latest episode is or a specific episode or whatever. But, you know, a few dollars in there, like, really worked. And then also, like, creating your own app. Like, we had crypto,   crypto couple, you know, Carla and Walker. They did a really funny Lightning Ventures ad. I love it. It's sometimes implied because we used a real song.   But I love this ad. It's so funny.  

So, yeah, that totally works. And, like, how fun is that? You know, for podcasts that are in normie land, I mean, I wish they were all claiming their shows on fountain. I wish the big, you know, workout guys and gym guys and mental health guys and Lex Friedman's of the world. Like if they click their show on fountain and actually got a chance to interact with   people more.   And they saw that maybe the SAS were adding up or whatever they were doing. I mean, that would be great. So love fountain and love value for value. We also invested in Wave Lake.   I've known Sam, the founder over there,   for, like, also, like, 30 years. He was in the band that I managed on Elektra Records. And No way. Yeah. He was one of my partners with,   with the concert company.  

So, like, the music industry is totally ripe for disruption,   whether it's, you know, everything from ASCAP, BMI,   how royalties are paid. These Totally. These things that have been teased over the years, like when Radiohead put their album out, and that turned out to be a huge success by making it free and taking donations,   and just making   more money,   essentially doing that. Like, you know, people have been innovating in this area and trying new things,   and I love it. They have big big plans.   They have big plans.  

[01:03:02] Unknown:

Yeah. I see this is gonna be the future, and I believe it can help disrupt   the McDonald's   hat wearing artists. We don't want we want our artists creating art, not necessarily flipping burgers, you know, so that they can make ends meet. So I think, you know, any   any avenues that we can help educate and get them on board is gonna be really helpful and important.   Where can everybody find you, Mike?  

[01:03:27] Unknown:

So thunderfunder.com   is our new thing. You should sign up there. If you see a bug or something wrong, you should tell us so we can fix it immediately.   That's where we're at with this project.   Ltng.ventures   is lightning ventures. There's still a bunch of stuff there too. If you wanna get into,   that deal flow there or learn a little bit more or,   find out about other stuff. There's that.   And, and, yeah, I'm on Twitter. Just my name, Mike Jarmuz, j a r m u z.   And,   and that's pretty much it. And I really hope that we have some deals live on Thunder Thunder   soon, Val.  



[01:04:07] Unknown:

Soon. Okay. When so when they go live, you gotta ping me so I can, you know, put them out and and, help you guys get some awareness out there. So this will be good with my my very humble audience.   So,  

[01:04:19] Unknown:

yeah. This is exciting.   Val is working on a lot of things in her secret lab that she's not letting on about, but she's got a lot of business   stuff going on that I'm excited about.  

[01:04:31] Unknown:

Good. I am excited about it too. I just I wanna make sure that they get to fruition and are actually viable babies before we put them out in the world.   Oh, yeah. This is great. Any final words for   a   a founder or somebody who's wanting to invest or maybe even just somebody who's new to Bitcoin? Last last words from from the buzz.  

[01:04:54] Unknown:

Don't be discouraged.   I'm   I'm   right there with you right now. And,   raising money in this environment is hard and almost impossible in a lot of cases. So it really comes down to actually building something and getting   revenue off of 0   and seeing what you can do with   nothing almost. You know, if you're lucky enough to get a few $100,000   scraped together,   you know, use it smart and and try to   try to get some revenue.   Right?   Instead of, you know, a lot of people think, oh my god, I've got this great idea for a company I need to raise $3,000,000.   Those days are not really happening right now, especially pre revenue before where you could kinda just sell the dream.  

You could kind of just raise a bunch of money and almost effortlessly   raise a 1,000,000 to $2,000,000.   Those days are gone.   So it really does matter about your business and what you're doing and, you know, cutting the burn and getting to profitability.   And like, what are you doing in the viability of it?   So that's nice   because it cuts all of that   froth   right right off and throws it out. But at the same time, you you actually have to have a business model, and it's very discouraging.   A lot of these companies, some of the ones we've been talking about here,   very hard to raise. And they're real things. We're talking about these companies, and it's hard to raise, right, when you're when you're when you're doing real things. So that's our mission. Our mission is to try and help those companies and to   democratize   this stuff   for you.  

Right? Because people think venture capital and, like, okay,   Val,   you should invest in the Muzz fund. Give me   a $100,000. I'm gonna invest it for you, and I'm gonna make you proud. Okay. That's great and all. There's a lot of people that do that. Oh, and I'm gonna charge you fees, by the way. There's a lot of people who do that. Okay? But   what I'm passionate about and, by the way, it doesn't make as much money as the other stuff. I should I should do that instead of this. But what I'm passionate about is saying, Val, I want you to invest.   I want you to make your own decisions,   and I want you to stay up late at night reading a 12 page deal memo thinking, wow. This is fucking cool.  

Should I make the $1,000   into this thing? Like, this is so cool. Like, okay. I'm gonna do it. Right? And then you made that decision. Right? And it's our job to not put crap   in front of you. Okay? So it's our job to screen it, to source the deals, to do all of our hard work and due diligence and kind of because it doesn't help us when everything   goes bye   bye. Okay? Nobody wins. Okay? It's not like we're getting paid for that. So that's our job, and then you get to make that decision and do stuff for yourself. So that's what I'm all about. And, hopefully, we can continue to fund more of these companies   and bring opportunities out to the people,   who want to take a ride.  



[01:07:54] Unknown:

I love it. I hope so too. I can't wait to see what's happening in 5 years with the with UnderFunder and all the companies that you're gonna help get off the ground and all the problems that are going to get solved through this effort. So way to go and,   keep punk rock alive, my friend.   Yay.   Thank you again so much for taking time to talk to the audience and share everything. And everybody who tuned in, thanks again and make sure you go follow Mike, follow him on Twitter, follow him on the website, and sign up at thunderfunder.com   and make sure you get on that mailing list so you can learn.  

And even if you don't have a project that you need funded, maybe you have a friend that does. So keep them in the loop. And, until next time, everybody. Thanks again, Mike, and peace, love, and warm aloha.