Join Tatiana Moroz, a pioneering folk singer and activist in the Bitcoin space as we discuss the challenges faced by independent artists in making a living through music and explore how Bitcoin can be integrated into revenue streams for creatives. Tatiana shares her journey from growing up in New Jersey with a skeptical view of government to becoming a Bitcoin advocate. She discusses the impact of music on social change and the potential of Bitcoin to empower artists.
Tatiana also talks about her involvement with the Free Ross movement, advocating for the release of Ross Ulbricht, the creator of Silk Road. She highlights the injustices of the drug war and the need for systemic change. The conversation touches on the importance of community building, the challenges of the current music industry, and the potential of decentralized platforms to support artists.
The episode also explores the personal growth and self-care necessary for activists and artists, emphasizing the need for balance and self-awareness. Tatiana and Valerie discuss the role of music as a tool for social change and the importance of maintaining a connection to higher values and God in turbulent times. They conclude with a call for kindness, love, and peace in the world.
It's hard for indie musicians and creatives to make ends meet in the fiat world. Does Bitcoin offer a solution that helps keep musicians in the studio and not flipping hamburgers at McDonalds?
Tatiana Moroz is an American folk singer-songwriter and a driving force in the Bitcoin community.
Tatiana Moroz unites modern technology & economics with the classic social awareness & influence of songwriters of the 60s and 70s. Her inspiring album “Keep The Faith” was released in 2017. Her latest album “Love Songs for Idiots” was released in March 2023.
A graduate of Berklee College of Music, Tatiana Moroz has been a vocal advocate in the Bitcoin community since 2012. Tatiana performs and speaks at Bitcoin and liberty conferences all over the world including SXSW, Nasdaq, National Libertarian Party Convention, Freedom Fest, and Inside Bitcoins. She has appeared on Fox’s Stossel, Money, Bitcoin Magazine and many more!
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(00:00:02) Introduction and Guest Overview
(00:01:55) Tatiana's Journey into Bitcoin and Music
(00:09:00) The Power of Music in Social Change
(00:18:38) Challenges for Artists in the Digital Age
(00:29:08) Tatiana Coin and the Artist Economy
(00:45:50) Free Ross: A Fight Against Injustice
(00:56:01) The Role of Artists in Advocacy and Change
(01:02:01) Personal Growth and Self-Care for Creatives
(01:11:16) Finding Meaning and Community in Uncertain Times
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[00:00:02]
Unknown:
Hey, guys. Is it even possible for independent artists these days to make a living with their music? It's not easy. As we all know, there's the starving artist, phrase that unfortunately many of us have suffered through, and it's very challenging as an independent artist to get your work out there, to get revenue in, to engage and talk with your audience, and not have the algorithms do everything for you. So, my next guest, Tatiana Maroz, she is an OG Bitcoiner, a wonderful folk artist and singer. She is an activist and she's performed all over the world talking about Bitcoin, talking about freedom, talking about love.
We need more love in this world. And Tatiana is definitely somebody who represents that. And you guys have to tune into this episode if you want to learn about how Bitcoin can be added into one of your revenue streams if you're a creative, whether you're a DJ, a musician, an artist, a podcaster, a blogger, a writer, a filmmaker. How can Bitcoin get into your revenue stream? And how can you save in it? And how can you transact in it and get value with, from your audience and as you're delivering them all the wonderful value? So, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I did. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you on the other side. And don't forget, like, subscribe and share and do all the things that all those YouTuber guys tell us to do, on all the channels.
Hey, aloha. Get ready for an epic episode. And if you love it, please share it. You know why? Because you got the love. Enjoy, my friends. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. This is DJ Valerie Beloved. I have somebody here with me who is a pioneer in the Bitcoin and crypto space. She is an independent folk singer, and she is on a mission to help people understand why Bitcoin and crypto can help artists and musicians have a better life. She is an activist. She's somebody who is I'm I'm so excited to have Tatiana Moreau here. So welcome. Like, finally, you're here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be, joining you and all of our viewers to talk about my favorite subjects, music and Bitcoin.
[00:02:31] Unknown:
And, I'm sure because, you know, we have a love of peace in common that will also be a be a feature.
[00:02:37] Unknown:
Totally. Sorry. I think somebody was beeping me there. Yeah. No. People are beeping me. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I wasn't sure if it was my beeps. Okay. So, Tatiana, you obviously have an extensive history. You've been in Bitcoin for, you know, over a decade. And, you know, you're obviously a a traveling musician. You are a singer songwriter. You've been around the block, and you're also an activist. Can you help people understand, like, let's talk about your past and, like, how did you get here?
[00:03:04] Unknown:
Sure. So I grew up in New Jersey. My mom was from Warsaw. So I had a lot of historical context for the world, pretty early on in that, you know, of course, Poland was destroyed during World War 2 and, then had a long communist rule. So I think that that made me very naturally skeptical of the government. My father was also kind of, you know, not exactly, yay, government. He's like, it's all bullshit, Tanya. It's all bullshit. So, basically, you know, I I did have a little bit of a rebel spirit growing up. I listened to a lot of the music of the sixties seventies. All of those songwriters had a really big impact on me, especially around Cat Stevens because he was able to use music to convey a message specifically around peace and also, I mean, his music is just such a huge influence on me in general because he's, you know, like his songs are so He's trained, baby. Let's go. Yeah. Absolutely.
And so, I spent a lot of my time growing up thinking about how to have a positive impact on the world, what I could do through music and through any other ways to basically bring out, you know, a better outcome and I cared a lot about people. I watched the usual kind of documentaries, the usual things where people are kind of getting off of the system. But when I finally learned about the Federal Reserve, I think that that was the appropriate, like, that was the real window where I would say, you know, I I had my waking up moment. I realized, okay, this is how the scam works. And that led me down a path to learn about Austrian economics and to have a, I think, a more mature and well rounded view of how to like, how economies work and what policies sound good on the surface and how do they end up happening. Right? Like, right now you have, a lot of crazy policies being suggested and, you know, that could be being pretty rude.
But anyway, so I got into supporting Ron Paul. I was singing around the country doing tour with Doctor. Paul. It was amazing during 2012, and that was a really unique experience. And, once I saw though how corrupted that political process was, I became very disillusioned, you know. To me, watching what happened at the Tampa Republican National Convention, seeing all those people walking out and not getting any coverage, basically the nomination being stolen from doctor Paul. I figured if they're gonna break their own rules, why am I even playing in this game? Right? And and once again, you know, another dream was shattered. So, around that time, I was sponsored by BitPay and Tony and, Steven came up to New York and they sold me my first Bitcoins.
So I bought my first bitcoins at $11. No, I did not buy enough of them. I'm freezing until all. I was like, yeah. I had like perks, but pay. It wasn't exactly on the on the top of the, you know, offer letter. So, yeah. Basically, I learned about Bitcoin and I didn't really understand it at first. You know, that gave me a very good clue later on because once I did appreciate what the impact could be with Bitcoin, I realized that we needed somebody to help sell it to the normies because I already knew that the Federal Reserve was my arch enemy and yet, you know, I still couldn't get behind Bitcoin other than seeing my number go up which I liked. So I started telling, the recording studio kids around me, you know, all about Bitcoin. Everybody thought I was crazy. I would like to take credit for the hip hop community knowing about Bitcoin because I worked in a main hip hop recording studio And so like Busta Rhymes and Trey Songz and all these people they would come in and I would leave out Bitcoin magazines and why Bitcoins and just leave them out so I could, you know, orange pill them.
And you know the the hip hop world was like really receptive to Bitcoin. Right? And so in 2013, I made a Bitcoin jingle. In 2014, I took everything a step further by making Tatiana coin, which was the first artist coin, in the world. And basically the goal was to connect me deeply with my fans because I kept getting shadow banned because I'm a political, loudmouth. And like musicians, they're like, No, no. You can complain about these things within these parameters and otherwise just be quiet. Keep singing sister. Yep. Nope. I did not obey the commands and so yeah, I kind of went down the rabbit hole.
And then we created a company called Tokenly which was one of the first Web3 companies. I only recently when they started saying Web 3, I was like, oh, I guess I'm in Web 3 now. But like we didn't call it Web 3. We called it Bitcoin 2.0. It wasn't even blockchain back then. We did a lot of experiments starting with Tatiana coin making, you know, 3,000,000 of them on counterparty, which is on Bitcoin. So a lot of the inscriptions that are like, oh, we're the first ones on Bitcoin. It's like, not really, homies. So, you know, it was it was quite quite a long journey.
You know, I'm happy to tell you whatever questions, but just kinda seeing that space evolve and seeing the Bitcoin space, grow over the years and being able to kind of merge music with that, I think has been quite quite a journey. Quite a lot of action along the way.
[00:08:26] Unknown:
Yeah. I will. And I love how creative and entrepreneurial you are too because I think, obviously, as an an independent artist, we have to be. Like, unless we're, you know, lucky enough to have monster labels sponsoring us and doing all the business stuff for us, it's like we have to wear every hat, you know, as as an independent creative, in this world and in any of the fields, whether you're a musician, whether you're, you know, a physical artist, whatnot, digital artist. It's a lot to to do. So I applaud you and your your ability to to handle all this. Let's talk about, I just you said so many great things there. I wanna unpack a couple of things. So let's go back to Kat Stevens for a minute.
You know, because some of the the obviously, you know, I'm all about Bitcoin peace, music, love, etcetera. And, you know, I became a DJ because of the the the consciousness transformation that can take place when you have a person listening to a song or a group of people listening to a song or a massive group of people. And so the ability, you know, if you look at obviously, you're a fan of the Woodstock generation, as am I, and we think about, you know, wow, you know, the opportunity to create people to think in a new perspective, you know, and have hope and have possibility and have new dreams for the future.
Nothing has has really affected the social fabric, I think, as much as music, you know, and in that in that very quick thing. Like, you can be at a concert and all of a sudden, you hear get up, stand up, and quick thing. Like, you can be at a concert, and all of a sudden, you hear Get Up Stand Up and Bob Marley singing it or you got Imagine going on or you've got Peace Train by the Kat Stevens. You're just like, wow. You we we're here. We get it. Yay. And so there's that unity and that kumbaya ness. And the thing that I noticed about, you know, all of us as creators and and change makers is we've got all these big visions, and we've got these big dreams. You know? But, unfortunately, we have been building everything on the the toxic layer of fiat, you know? And so when Bitcoin came into the picture, it's like, wow, how can we build these big dreams, these big visions, these big social change movements, having music be an igniter, but still building it on this foundation of sound money. What's been your experience with, you know, the activist community and the artist community? I know you said the hip hop folks got it, but, like, are they, like are the the change making musicians that you're, you know, associating with, or do they get Bitcoin? Do they get why it's a revolutionary tool?
[00:10:54] Unknown:
I think that musicians are very left leaning, and there's a very strong imprint of what it means to be a radical revolutionary. And like I mentioned before, it's in a prescribed kind of zone. So when you're trying to talk with musicians about Bitcoin, on some level I think that they get it. But they're naturally inclined to think that, oh, money is evil, capitalism is bad, business is bad and all this stuff on their iPhones. Oh, the irony. You know? So they don't really fully necessarily get it, but I think that when they start imagining making money from it, it's appealing to them. But I don't think that they necessarily, in my experience, have really grasped the global impact. If anything, I think some artists are excited about like meme coins and stuff like that. I don't think that they are as conscious of why money has such a big impact as to what's going on in the world. Like, they don't think about inflation. They don't think about money printer go brrr.
And to me, that's the bigger battle, that's the bigger motivation has been to help people understand, yes, sure. I want people to like my music and whatever. But I want people to understand how we have been made into the slave class that we are And we're all under the illusion that we're also free and no, we're not homies. Like, I'm like, you call everybody homies. But like I like it. There you go. It must be my old hip hop studio days. Sometimes it comes down. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah. Like, I guess, you know, people really need a little bit more of an untethering. One of the benefits of COVID, what would benefit is that people have kind of detached from the matrix a little bit. They're stepping a little bit further back. The problem is is what is filling the void and how are they learning about that.
So for me, you know, I want artists to participate because I feel like we're the messengers And if you look into my Bitcoin jingle, look, I made a song recently, never give up. Yeah. And before that, it was the Bitcoin jingle. And the whole thing is to really try and get people to think differently about what money is and what a world could look like if we weren't, you know, chained to this, like, sinking ship. Right? That we're all kind of supposed to be swimming and, you know, keeping it up with our own work while some other guys are just, you know, sitting around eating caviar. So, I think that the impetus is there to save the world, but I think that the the, efforts are a bit misguided.
And then you've also got, you know, the different gamut of music. You've also seen a fair amount, Again, like, I'm not a hip hop person, not that I don't like to dance hip hop or that I don't like all hip hop, but I feel like it's a missed opportunity for that community to put out a positive message. And so I get pissed when I'm like, listen, guys. You know, we used to have some really good and we had Scene Wonder, we had Prince, we had Michael Jackson, we had like all this great music in the black community. Now the best we can come up with is like Ice Spice. I mean, come on, get it together. So, you know, I find that kind of disheartening but Yeah.
Maybe because, you know, hip hop is by nature kind of rebelish aside from the people that are, you know, being paid to promote stupid brands that nobody in the hood could even afford. I mean, they've already been screwed over by the system. So they're kind of receptive to that. They're also like the hustlers. Right? I mean, not for nothing, but like a lot of people in the hip hop world who are paying for studio time with drugs. That's awesome. We support that. Great little side business you got there. But I mean, because it's almost like how like a business person can appreciate the problem with controls on business in a different way than just a regular old employee can say like, oh, you're just a rich business owner, you're a landowner, blah blah blah. But like they don't really know what it's like on the other side.
I think that the hip hop community has really had an opportunity to go and like experience things in a in a much better way. So maybe that's why. But like, you know, I of course think of the rock and the country and the pop people because I want to have the biggest influence that I can. So I don't know. I mean, it's a work in progress. But I think that the tides are shifting and people are feeling more empowered to talk about, you know, what's on their mind. I just hope that they're not really serious about price controls and all this insanity, you know, taxing unrealized gains. I mean that's Oh my god. What? Yeah. Beyond email. It's really terrifying actually. It's totally terrifying. Well, that says, oh, I'm gonna leave the country. If they start putting in price controls, look, I know my history. I'm out of here. See you. I don't know where I'm going because that's the other problem. And and I think that we're on a global level coming to a point where we kinda have to stay and fight and nobody really wants to do that because we're all kinda fat and like we like fluoride and, you know, TV.
So and and look, women, if I didn't like fluoride, I don't have fluoridated toothpaste. I at least, you know, went past that step, but, you know, like, who wants to go out and fight? You know? And and even actually, what I find interesting is that in wars about 70, 75%, 70, 80% of the people that are, you know, given the task to kill somebody, they can't go through with it. So that's why they have to put all those military guys on drugs because they couldn't actually pull the trigger because humanity isn't kind of inclined in that way. But, you know, maybe we are gonna have to fight. I hope not. It seems like a informational war seems a lot easier to to have less bloodshed, but maybe it's more challenging because I think that we've been in a mental prison for a long time.
And even history itself is sort of falling apart. Right? Everybody's looking at old instances and old pieces of history that we had assumed were true and they're looking at them differently now. So, I mean, just the JFK thing. I mean, we're still talking about the JFK assassination. You know? That's pretty wild. And and people have lost faith in the system, so it's a very weird time to be alive. Very exciting, but It it is. It's exciting. It's terrifying. It's beautiful.
[00:17:16] Unknown:
There was a quote. I think it was I saw it the other day, and I don't wanna murder this person's name, Dostoevsky Dostoevsky. And it said, you know, beauty will save the world or something like that. And I and I believe that. Like and I think circling again back to our music, right, and it's one thing for us to go up there and put all the charts and the graphs and the this and the that and all the left brain stuff. If we can't activate people's emotions with positive lyrics, with positive messages, with the positive vibrations of certain frequencies of the music, right, because obviously we know certain keys can make you feel bright and cheery and certain keys can make you feel down and dark, and I wanna stab somebody at the horror show at the theater. So it's very intentional how we can use music to, you know, elevate or bring ourselves down and create that sense of beauty or perpetuate that sense of fear and that sense of slavery. Right? And so I think it's important, you know, I know for me when I DJ, I always wanna have different types of music to take people on journeys, but I always wanna have certain messages in the songs that are like programming us to believe and to get up and stand up and to never give up and all, you know, your song. And so it's super important that we remember, like, it's a tool, you know. And and music is a tool, you know, for our own selves, and it's obviously a tool for, you know, scaling these experiences. And so, let's talk I wanna talk about, let's talk about Ross, and let's talk about, you know well, we'll talk about ROS in a minute, if you don't mind. We'll pause that for a sec.
I wanna talk about, you know, what's the difference because a lot of people who are new to the space, right? When I started learning about Bitcoin, you know, three and a half years ago, I really I went to a blockchain conference, like, 6 years ago. And my girlfriend took me and she's like, Val, you can go make Val coin and la, la, la. And I'm like, well, who the hell is gonna buy Val coin? And what like, where where are they gonna sell it after? Where's the liquidity? Did I just rug pull these people? And so I I lumped in Bitcoin with crypto, and it was all just one big gobbledygook, and I didn't even think about it twice. And so, you know, fast forward to COVID, and I was like, well, I guess I gotta make some money. Maybe I'll go check out this crypto stuff. And then, you know, there was that Beeple sale, that NFT sale, that $69,000,000.
And I'm like, wow. How can this stuff help artists? How can it help creatives? You know? And so I started researching, and then I started learning the difference between Bitcoin and crypto and whatnot. And, you know, listening to Alex Gladstein, I was really interested in the money part of Bitcoin of like how can people escape authoritarian regimes, how can they escape situations that are unsafe and have a chance to start over again. So I just put all the other crypto stuff on the side and just, you know, said, okay. I've got this much little bandwidth in my tiny brain. I'm gonna focus on Bitcoin. Can you help people understand? Because I saw, like, people getting rug pulled and these NFT minting things and the crypto, and this token's gone now. And so how can you help our listeners, like, differentiate, you know, what's what's something that's safe and valid to kinda keep going toward and what's something that's not as an artist so that they're not rug getting rug pulled and that they're not rug pulling their audiences?
[00:20:29] Unknown:
Well, that was something that I really considered a lot when I made Tatiana coin. You know, they had launched Ethereum, but it wasn't actually you know, there were no tokens or anything. It was doing anything yet. But by then, people had introduced into the, you know, public conversation the term pump and dump, which of course I never had heard of. And I have one of my friends, ping me. Good friend of mine, not a jerk or anything, but he was asking me, hey, you know, let's pump and dump Tatiana pointe and look, would I have preferred to have made more than I don't know. What do we raise? Maybe like $30 or something like that. Like, sure, it would have been better to make more money than that. But, no, absolutely not. And it was really important for me to not do that because then you're not really creating a fair framework. You're not behaving with honor and we are blessed with something that I think deserves reverence and therefore an honorable treatment of it.
I have no idea what in the world is going on with these tokens these days. Like, I just listened this morning, to x about this guy on pump dot fun and they basically are just minting memes and then rugbling a run right after the other. And first of all, like, part of me is wondering how I can also do that just like easy job. He's just making like a bunch of money every day. And there's a bunch of willing suckers. Believe how many people wanna join the Shitcoin Casino. They're not there because somebody forced them to. They're there of their own volition. So I think it raises some interesting ethical questions. But at the end of the day, you know, if you wanna support an artist that you know, I think that that's, like, a better thesis. Right? So people like me, Tatiana Maroz, who has made many albums, who has made podcasts in this space, who's done, like, a bunch of stuff, like, they have trust with me. Right? Yeah. When I did my first Tatiana coin, I didn't print an album. It was fully funded with crypto.
So now I have, you know, a track record. And so when I go out and I try and sell Tatiana coins again, because I will be doing that because I wanna fundraise for my next album. Mhmm. You know, I I think that people will be able to tell that I'm legitimate. The problem is is that not everybody wants that. They want trash. They want their shit coin casino. So, you know, give them what they want. Right? I don't know, you know, on what basis people decide to make these purchases, but I imagine it's just it's not because they were like, oh, man. I'd really like to support an artist today. Some of them are choosing, you know, more easy example would be like a visual artist or something. They want that artwork. Yeah. A lot of times they're just wanting to make money. And so that's cool. Although, part of me is a little bit sad because I didn't do this and sacrifice so much in this community so we could just make a bunch of shitcoin casino things. I liked the fact that we were creating a money that would allow for peace and I liked that we were creating opportunities for artists to have sustainable careers and build communities without censorship.
So that's what's appealing to me. I think the, like, new NFT stuff seems really dumb. I don't think it's gonna make people like, maybe it'll I think it'll get at least part of those people to learn about Bitcoin and then I'm okay with it. Not because I need them to buy Bitcoin, but because I need them to understand that the Fed is not their friend and that the financial system is a disaster. So to me, our best bet for solving that is is within Bitcoin. Although, to be fair, I've been a little disappointed with the performance. And now you've got a bunch of different people in the community that want their businesses to work, so the government is coming down on them and they're like, what principles?
You know? And and so that that's a little bit frustrating to kind of watch play out, but, you know, to each their own, that we're all kinda guided by our own internal compass.
[00:24:28] Unknown:
We are. And I and I think it's it's I don't know. Bitcoin's definitely changed me in the way that I think about, you know, short and long term incentives, how am I going to make decisions, you know? So, is this a quick buck? Is this something that really is like worth the 10 year wait or however long it's going to be, you know, that I'm making the sacrifice right now? And so, I I think that's really important. I wanted this is a little side question, and we'll come back to Ross in a sec. Have you noticed like, for me, I'm obviously, you know, sparkly, Val, DJ, la la la. Like, do you notice people treat you differently in the Bitcoin world because you're a musician and maybe not take you as seriously as they would if you were somebody who's got, you know, the charts and the graphs and the book and the whole thing?
[00:25:11] Unknown:
Yes. Actually, I do think that. I don't think that that's always true. I think that there are a lot of advantages to being one of the more colorful characters. You I think you can develop very, very real relationships. But I remember 1 year as a Satoshi round table and I saw another OG who I had known for a while. And I don't remember what it was that I had lamented. I was like, oh, I don't know. You know, I I I was, like, vaguely complaining, I think, about something because that would prompt him to say what he did. And he's like, well, what are you even doing here? He's like, you just, like, make podcasts. And I thought that it was a really rude thing because you need you need everybody in this community. You can't just go discarding people because guess what? Like, you and your 4 nerds in your basement, nobody cares about you guys. But people wanna listen when I speak and maybe not another engineer doesn't wanna hear what I have to say. Totally.
That, like, that's fair. But you need to have that communication layer and you need to bring it back to reality. So I do think that sometimes there's a little bit of snobbery there. On the other hand, I could make a better effort to learn things from the technological standpoint. Right? But it's almost the same way then people are like, oh, well, why do you even have an engineer, working on your albums? And you could just edit it and and you know do the engineering yourself. I'm like, okay. First of all, because I don't have infinite time. Second of all, that person is talented at that. Yeah. I am talented at the singing part. That's how it works. Sure. I could spend some time and do a mediocre job and just have like a subpar project or I could go to an expert who actually has cultivated that skill throughout their entire life and that to me is kind of worthwhile. So, you know, whatever. There's haters everywhere. It's the same thing like being a woman or something in Bitcoin. Sometimes it's a benefit.
Sometimes you're showing up and some dude thinks it's a date and it's a real waste of time and it's very infuriating. So, you know, there's pluses and minuses to any character. You could be a super amazing developer, but nobody wants to talk to you because you're wearing a t shirt and you look like exactly like everybody else. Whereas me and you, we're going to the front of the line, baby. So that's just kinda how it is. And, and I try and have a little bit of a balanced approach at at looking at the the stuff otherwise. I mean, I've been bitter before, but I try not to do that. And people are a lot of times projecting their own nonsense when they're talking to you. But I was surprised when that guy said that. I was like, wow. Like, what have you been doing here? Like, you have no value at all. I was like, thanks.
[00:27:45] Unknown:
I know. It well, and it's a different your point is so well I mean, until we have hyperbitcoinization, we don't have enough voices out there. And everybody's not gonna hear the same message from the messenger if they look and smell and taste and all the stuff different from that audience. Like, if you're totally an alien to them, they're just gonna be like, yeah, I don't think so. So the more of us that can feel comfortable, like, okay, cool. You're a coach. You're a healer. You're a musician. You're an entrepreneur. You're an environmentalist. Like, get excited about, like, talking to those, you know, communities too. You know? So instead of thinking like you have to conform to some middle way of being a Bitcoiner, that's not gonna work. You know? And so, you know, a hedge fund guy is not gonna listen to you and I probably
[00:28:30] Unknown:
about You know? Bitcoin. You know? Maybe it'll be like, oh, but it's like of influencers will. And that's why I think it's so important. Like, we are the we are the voices. We amplify what we're doing and, you know, having famous musicians advocate for Bitcoin is pretty helpful. Not that I'm a famous musician, but I'm saying more broadly, like, if we had more artists that understand it, that was why I went after Tatiana Quinn as a concept because I was like, if we can get the artist behind this then they can, you know, proliferate the information to the people and there's a lot of trust that you have with an artist. You also have access to somebody on a very, very deep level, that you've never met just because they connect with you on your music. So why not use that power for good? And I and I think that's a big opportunity.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
I do too. And I think, you know, community building and fan base building is so important and because we're at the mercy of these giant tech companies and their algorithms, and you don't get to see who listen to your music on Spotify. Right? Like Right. You just know, okay. And I can see, like, a quarter of a penny or whatever. It's yeah. It's obscene. Yeah. You don't get to audit anything, and you don't even know if those numbers are accurate. And so, you know, the new ways for people to consume content and then share value with, you know, their favorite artists, I think, is very important. And so we were talking earlier about value for value, and you're like, why are they calling it value for value? It's just giving somebody money for the thing that you give back. So, you know, I think about, you know, podcasting 2.0 and Wave Lake and all of these other, you know, ways that people can, you know, zap some sats to people who, if it's a podcast or if it's a song, like, you can't do that on Spotify.
You know? You can't do that on Apple Music. You can go and click a link and go to someone's website and then go to Venmo and then go to the the the Patreon account, but that kind of instant artist support is is something I think that, technologically, this can, you know, get utilized, you know, so we can have some more, like, little streams of income. And so we were talking about
[00:30:36] Unknown:
yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No. No. I just feel like it's a little overstated, and I feel like that makes me really mad because look, I've seen the tip culture. I I remember when tip change change tip was around and, you know, I've seen the tip culture really change. People do not give tips anymore. And the thing is is that look, I put some songs out on Wave Link. Maybe I need to go out there and be like, rah rah, Wave Lake or whatever it is who I've talked to. I don't know. But the point is I made, like, $2. Okay? It costs a lot more money to make an album than, you know, let's say on average it cost me about $2 to produce a song because I'm using real musicians and stuff like that. Right? And frankly, I think I'm still getting a good deal with that, like, because I'm doing mastering engineering blah blah. But it's just I I'm not enthusiastic that people are so generous. I think that that has passed a lot. Like, when people started first doing any Google campaigns and all that stuff, people were making bank. I mean, every other day there's a new GoFundMe these days. People are tapped out and I think that we're at a different position. You know, I think it's it's really obvious that the world is afraid that we're about to go into a deep crazy, dark depression.
And, hopefully, that won't happen. But, you know, it's looking like there has to be some kind of a significant correction on the financial side. I can't get convinced that artists are going to survive off of, you know, 10¢, 5¢. And, you know, I had someone trying to convince me. He's like, but it's $10 that you never had before. I'm like, yeah, but it took me 3 hours to get signed up on this stupid site. So you guys $3 an hour. But, you know, I'm like, why is that helpful? Sure. I wanna be a part of it because it's cool to be in the new thing blah blah. But I mean, I have stuff to do. So, you know, when people talk to artists about joining the community, if you're gonna waste somebody's effing excuse my language, but, like, waste somebody's effing making them sign up for some stupid website. I mean, how many times I sign up for something completely on Bitcoin related for my music. Right? You fill it in, you fill in this part, you fill in that part, you upload a picture and it doesn't work, maybe it's a turn in and it's a high res like all that crap takes time. And then at the end of the day, you get absolutely nothing from it. And there's just been nothing but a series of mediocre music projects over, you know, a decade or so that are just trying to kind of tap into the indie artist and I applaud their efforts. It's really hard and really miserable.
But if you're an artist, f all that noise, go on buy some Bitcoin, get yourself a sugar daddy, a Splenda mama, whatever you wanna get and like like, I don't know, like you're not gonna value for value, like, sorry. Music, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have a lot of value these days and I would like it to. I would like it to be something different. Sure there's different ways that you can do it, but if even if you look at the DIY model, you know, I went to Berkeley in Boston. It's a really really good music school. Right? Yes. And what I found was that, you know, really great artists are not necessarily really great business people. No. They suck.
[00:33:42] Unknown:
That's why we have record labels.
[00:33:44] Unknown:
Yes. But the problem is the record labels are all evil and stuff and like, you know, making us like Exactly. Yes. She also wants to. But like, you know, I can think of this girl, Chris Kanaka, man. She was fantastic. But she didn't like, she's not gonna make posts like, hey, guys. What's up? Blah blah blah. Like and that's what they want you to do. So now, okay, Patreon's a pretty good idea. But, like you end up spending time connecting with your fans and and sometimes it's a genuine thing, sometimes it's something that you're just doing out of obligation and it's like, well, I would just like to have time to be human and to make music and not have to become a part time, you know, video blogger and, you know, oversharing everything and not being able to enjoy a moment without feeling like, God, I post Instagram, hashtag yeah, like, give me an f break. I wanna think about things that are more substantive than that.
So I maybe like I don't know where we're gonna end up. Right? Because we've got this whole Instagram culture that's fostering narcissism and you've got basically a bunch of kids that are like from divorce and mommy didn't love me and daddy's like a dick and so, you know, they're constantly looking for that source of approval. And I really want the shift to come back to something just of more substance because if I listen to music that came out 5, 10, 15 years ago and was a hit and then I listen to stuff that came out in the eighties and the seventies and the nineties, I mean, that is some timeless stuff and instead we're just stuck with like WAP and other dumb stuff. So, I don't know. Like, it's also a bit of a march toward Idiocracy if you saw that film.
[00:35:16] Unknown:
Oh my god, girl. It's like it's literally playing out in real time and I know when people haven't seen that, if you guys have not seen this show, you must go watch Idiocracy. Like, we are actually watching it, and it's in our world. It's
[00:35:30] Unknown:
how the hell did they predict everything? Like, it was just it's Yeah. It it was an even documentary. That's that's the running joke. Right? It is. That wasn't that wasn't the goal, but, like, we're really kinda, like, leaning in that direction now. Oh my god. It's so scary. No. I just I don't know. Well, I I'm hopeful that humanity and will will prevail and not just become idiotic, but
[00:35:53] Unknown:
it does seem like low IQ is is kinda taking over. So, you know, there's there's We celebrate we're celebrating mediocrity. We're celebrating entitlement. We're celebrating you know, we're giving the microphone to people who literally should never be speaking in public. It's like, no. You're we shouldn't be tailoring our social structures and norms around a few people who have, you know, a couple privileged ideas about how entitled they are. And so I I think it's very, it's very toxic what's happening right now, and I think it's very important for those of us who, you know, are lucky enough, not that we're perfect or anything, but if we can kinda see behind the curtain, keep talking about it and sharing, you know, the truth and using our voices and using our platforms to get, you know, common sense back into the equation of decision making out there.
Coming back really quick to, like, the GoFundMe and the Geysers and the value for value and all of this, like, I think so a couple years ago before, like, the splits and Noster and everything was around, I'd had this idea, and and I talk about it a lot, and it's still who knows if we can build this? I don't know. But you're right. The tipping culture is tough. Like, just this morning, I'm opening up signal and it's like, do you wanna make a donation? And I'm like, well, not right this second, but I will later. You know? And so my mind is just like, maybe later, maybe later. I don't wanna think about tipping. I don't wanna think about, you know Well, that's enough. Like, how many more tips do I have to give out every single day? Nothing about 40%. Like, no. Yeah. Totally. Well, but but if if we think about if we can shift the perspective of, like, we know right now that, like, we're the we're the we're the, the product, you know, because we're getting all the advertising and all this, and they're making all the money off of us. And so we're so used to free content. We're so used to free information that we don't intentionally value the people who are actually the content creators.
Blogger, a podcaster, a musician, you know, digital artist, you name it, because we're just so used to, like, oh, I can listen to that for free, and I don't need to support. However, your point is, like, do we want a bunch of half ass artists out there who are just throwing crap out there for us to have to sift through, or do we want financial incentives for the artists that we actually think are good so that they don't have to put on the McDonald's hat, you know, and then not get to go produce the music or the art that they're they're born for. You know? And so what are some ways that we can look at that? And so I thought, what if instead of having all these subscriptions and platforms and tips and da da da da da and Geyser funds, what if we could pull all the information from the places where we consume content, you know, any of the forms, whether it's the video, the music, you know, etcetera, and then have a tipping wallet. So let's say I have a budget every month, and I'm like, I'm I'm $10 a month. I wanna just make sure that everything I consume gets a tip. You know? And, you know, Michael Sailor's got a $1,000,000 a month because he's a patron of the arts, whatever. And so we fund the central wallet every month and it just gets topped off. And then at the end of the month, the the machines say, cool. You spent this many minutes listening to these songs and this, this, this, and that. And then each of those pieces of IP has their own wallet, and then it automatically splits to those pieces of content. And then whoever produced those pieces of content will have a sub split too. So if you're doing music production, you maybe have 5 or 10 people. If you're doing a movie, you've got a 100 people. So that to me is a way for us to start reconnecting again with our audiences and then realizing like, hey.
They want us to be successful. They don't wanna just, you know, consume my content for free, but they're exhausted. So how can I make their exhaustion in in the fatigue of tipping and being asked, how can I eliminate that for them? Like, how can the machines do the work for us in the background? So what do you think about that?
[00:39:41] Unknown:
I think that you need enough volume for it to be effective. That's the problem. Like, people will say, oh, look, we can get split your royalties. What royalties? What? I'm effing royalties losers. Like, okay. I'll give you an example. Okay. I was on, my my song, They'll Never Change from my first album. Ironically, it's a song about parents being just awful, like totally narcissistic and not paying attention. So they used it in Dance Moms. Right? And, yeah. And that girl, Sia, you know, the little girl Maddie Sigler that Sia tapped to Yes. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. Because little girl Sigler was dancing to my song, this thing. Right? And so even today, I'm constantly getting, you know, you get the apple like who's Shazaming you and whether Shazaming Damn song every time and it's like this is like a freaking 15 year old song and and do you know how much money I made from that from that licensing?
[00:40:40] Unknown:
I don't know. $60
[00:40:42] Unknown:
Nobody even asked me. Nobody went to me and said, hey, Tatiana, this is like a great opportunity. Nothing. So I maybe maybe made $200 off of that, if that. And so, like, I don't think that there's that many royalties to go around here if if a song costs $2,000 to record, right? So, and and maybe you can get them down a little bit if you're doing a full album at once. But the point is is like the math isn't mathing and unless you have, you know, millions and millions of listeners then you can start generating money, which is maybe why some of these more personalized relationships are cool. But then all of a sudden you're like, I use this expression before, like a splendid daddy. Right? All of a sudden your fan is treating you like because they have all this access to you and now it's a little bit, it's a little overbearing a little bit. Right? So, I don't know. You know, you're asking them for for stuff and that's like the exchange of value in general. Right? But Yeah. I mean, I just wanna make a song and then people say I like that song. Here's a dollar or whatever it is. And frankly, I'd like them to give me more than a dollar because a couple dollars is not gonna cover my expenses. So I'm constantly trying to think of where will artists make money because I personally do not think that people are loving tipping all day long. People are cheap. They are going to continue to be cheap. People are not gonna be able to afford food soon. You know, like, I want them to be I want artists to not just depend on a couple kind people that are giving you, you know, $10 a month to show their patronage as much as I agree with that. And I No. And of course yeah. That that's obviously
[00:42:25] Unknown:
again, it's one stream of revenue if you think of. Obviously, touring is where most people will make the the bulk of their their money if you're an independent artist. And but that's Come out. That's not sustain that's not sustainable. Like, you can't be on tour, you know, 300 days a year if you're making, you know, a small amount of money at every show. So it's just very it's a difficult proposition for artists to keep moving forward if they don't have multiple streams of revenue, you know, that they can count on. And so but you have to take the consumer and the fans into place. And I think of, you know, Kevin Kelly's 1,000 true fans. Right? It's like, who's your core fan? As long as you're not, like you said, feeling like, oh, they've got all this access to me. Now they've I've gotta be in this weird relationship thing. So, you know, you get to design that obviously as a an artist and a creator and how much, you know, how much space you keep between your your people. Yeah. But I just wanted to add one thing like that. A lot of times, people like, oh, you can make money from merch and and,
[00:43:25] Unknown:
touring. Okay. Merch, fine. So I buy a bunch of t shirts. Now they're taking up big space in my apartment. I spent like $8 on them. I'm selling them for $15, you know, after all that, what am I gonna make? $500 now? I've just had some stupid ass shirts sitting in my apartment for, you know, a year. I how is that a business model exactly? And then people talk about touring. I have my friend, my engineer friend and he does a lot of gigs. He has a Grammy. He works with really talented artists. They're, you know, indie artists, but they're going out on tour and I'm like, wow, how are you guys paying for this? And I'm like, are you guys making money? And every effing time nobody's making any money. These artists are coming out of pocket so they could get exposure that maybe Rosier, you're getting exposure. Come on my my bill. No. Fuck off. I need to get paid. Annoying. I want my landlord to give me exposure payment deductions. I mean, great.
So I think a lot of times when people are you know, they see you and they're like, oh, oh, wow. It's so cool you're playing this show. You must be so cool. They don't know that I didn't get paid. They don't know that I'm just like there, you know. Sometimes, yeah, you get paid. Somebody takes you there. But a lot of times, God, how many shows that I do there, you know, for free and and I was supposed to get something out of it and I'm just over it. We need a real model so we cannot be waitresses, so we don't have to get stupid lame day jobs, so we can actually get health insurance and not avoid going to the doctor because we can't afford damn co pay. You know? It's it's too much. It's not it's not sustainable. And if people love their music, which they do,
[00:44:59] Unknown:
that model is gonna have to keep evolving. And I don't think we're there yet. We've got a little bit to go. Yeah. I think we've got a long bit to go. And, again, you're dealing with, you know, everybody can be a producer now on their telephone. You know, if like you said, obviously, if you wanna use real musicians and real, you know, engineers and whatnot, you've gotta pay for that. But because we've got this, you know, all of these apps, you can go, you know, make your voice sound a certain way. Now, we've got all the AI stuff that's even going to make it way more trippier. So, it's like the volume of crap that's out there for us to sift through, you know, as consumer and as a, as an artist to get our messages out there is growing exponentially because of the ease of production.
You know? And so it doesn't cost anything other than maybe a dollar a month if you're downloading some weird app. Right? Let's talk about the shirt you're wearing. Here, I'm gonna take this off so we can see it. Let's talk about free Ross day 1. You wanna talk about Ross?
[00:46:00] Unknown:
Sure. So I've been involved, with the Ulbricht family for a really long time. Like I said, I learned about Bitcoin in 2012. I remember in 2013 in October, going to a conference in Atlanta hearing about, you know, Ross Ulbricht was arrested and and Silk Road this and that. And I was thinking, you know, this is kind of dumb, not for nothing. But I mean you make a drug website, what do you think was gonna happen? Right? So I was very ignorant to the reality of the community that had formed around, the Slope Road and also about a lot of the challenges in the drug war. You know, everybody knows thumbs down for the drug war, but once you really get under the hood, it's a real mess underneath there and it's just a horror show.
And, so I met Lynn Albrecht, Ross's mom, at an event and I was doing podcasts for the Tatiana show and I interviewed her and her story was just so moving, you know, it's a lot easier to find, a connection point with a grieving mother versus, you know, a kingpin from the news. They made him sound terrible. Course, you know, I knew a little bit better, right, because I'm a rebel and I'm cool. So I knew that he was cool and, you know, through his mom I got to go and visit him and I was the first person in the Bitcoin community that was able to visit him. So Yeah. And and I visited him probably a dozen times over the years.
So quite a lot of different times we developed a close friendship and, you know, we would write letters and stuff. And it got to the point where when I put out my album that was funded with Tatiana coin, Keep the Faith, he had taken a photo of me, made by a famous, libertarian photographer, Judd Weiss, and he, made a hand drawing of it and he did it in his prison cell. And so I decided I'm gonna make this my album cover And why is that? Because it illustrates a couple points. Number 1, it brings attention to my friend Ross and and his play and it also illustrates why artists need an artist coin. Because if I was signed to a major label, they're not going to yeah, there it is.
They're not necessarily going to allow me to use, you know, prison art by like a political dissident. Right? I mean, I actually think of Ross as a political prisoner. Right? And and, you know, artists need to be able to stand up for what they think is important. That's our pushback role in the in the world. And, you know, for me, the Ross thing became a really big, passionate cause that I was involved in. Seeing how many prisoners there were and, you know, seeing how Lynn could be a voice for them because she was, relatable but also articulate.
You know, not everybody who's in prison who got a bum rap has a mom as amazing as Lynn, but she's actually able to articulate and illustrate what is happening in that world, in a dirty world that most people don't ever want to know, right? We think, oh, jail guy's gross. But actually there's a lot of people there that don't belong there and what's really gross is the, drug war itself. Right? So, got to know Ross. Ross is an incredibly, really, really incredibly unique person and somebody who has used his time in a commendable way since he was imprisoned.
You know, maybe building the Silk Road was a misguided libertarian idea, but, you know, he's been in jail for a very very long time. I mean one might argue that the drug war is more immoral and they even did studies showing that Silk Road made the drug industry safer because it kind of got it out of the streets and the rating system prevented having tainted drugs that would cause overdoses and stuff. But regardless, you know, no victim, really came forward and what's interesting is is that when they sentenced Ross, the judge, Catherine Forrest, said that she did it to deter future people and specifically citing his political views that she found so disturbing.
Now you have Blake Bentall who created Silk Road 2. He was just at the Nashville conference because he basically served barely any time like less than a year if that. I think, you know, some people say that he only spent 14 days, but let's say it was a year awaiting trial. Basically, they took him in, he plead guilty and they said, Great. Why don't you build us a tracking machine and then we'll let you out of here? So he goes in, he builds like some kind of a chain analysis for the government just what the spirit is of this community. Right? And, and now he made his own business and the guy who arrested him, one of the arresting feds who incidentally worked on the Ross case and did not offer this to Ross, they basically invested in this guy's company.
Like, how can you investigate somebody, arrest them, be a fed, get them out of jail, force them to make you a free product, and then start investing in it. I mean, it's completely beyond the pale. So this case is has been fraught with corruption. That's the least of what we have to worry about. And, you know, the time has come where Ross must be freed. It's been over 10 years. So many people around the world who've been moved by this story is a blight on the, you know, American justice system and it needs to be rectified. So seeing Trump, saying Free Ross was was awesome.
I, of course, wish he had done that the last time when he had the chance, but better late than never. Hopefully, we can get to that point and if Kamala wants to neutralize Trump, she should compete and she should free Ross sooner. Everybody's got a chance here. We could all free Ross. But, you know, Ross is only one of the many people that are suffering because of the drug war. We have a completely unbalanced justice system where violent criminals and pedos are going free. But, oh, no, not those drug dealers. Why? Because they're competing with the government. The biggest drug dealers in the world are the government. Right? I mean, they love that stuff. That's how they fund their dirty black operations is by having, the illegal drug trade under their thumb. They're a bunch of, you know, whatever. The people are waking up and hopefully, Ross will be free soon. I doubt he will be creating any kind of, you know, trouble when he gets out and that's good, you know. Let's let him let's let him enjoy his life. He's paid the toll.
He has, you know, really made a lot of sacrifices for liberty and and while in prison, he has spent a lot of time helping to rehabilitate other prisoners, mentor them, educate them, you know, guiding them through the GED meditations, all different kinds of really cool stuff. So we should all be, we should all be so I don't know. I guess, like, human as as Ross. He's really tapped into a lot of good things, even though he's been dealt a a pretty bad hand. And there's a song on on the album called Silk Road. So people wanna listen to it, they can check it out. Right. I'm gonna yeah. I'll put all the links and everything in the show notes for people to check this stuff out. I know it's such a
[00:53:18] Unknown:
I can't imagine. I got to meet Lynn in Nashville recently and, you know, I was like, what can we do to help? You know? And how can I help? You know? And she was like, we have 10,000 T shirts and, like, the exact one that you're wearing. And I was like, alright. Let's try to hand them out to everybody in line who's gonna wait for Trump. You know? And just every tiny little thing can hopefully matter, and you just never know what the the tipping point is gonna be for someone's consciousness to wake up to say, like, yeah. This is absolutely, like, wrong. You know? And, I mean, I look I equate it to, like, okay. You're gonna put Steve Jobs in jail because he made an iPhone and drug dealers use the iPhone?
It that's just stupid. You know? And so terrorists use the iPhones. You know, bad guys use it's just it's stupid. And so to say Where is Epstein's where where all his clients?
[00:54:09] Unknown:
Yeah. They're They're nothing great. This whole thing is nonsense. I really wish I never watched Ally McBeal. I always credit that to my ignorance as to the legal system. Right? You know, you're at home, you walk through a little shop, you think, yeah, that's just it is and you don't know anything about anything. That's why I found Bitcoin so interesting in the idea of smart contracts because I kept being screwed over and, you know, when I asked for my money, dudes are groping me and I'm saying, hey, that wasn't in the contract, bro. And actually, you know what you could do with your contract? You could light it on fire because nothing's worthless unless you have enough money to take somebody to court. And guess what? Exactly. You win in court, you're not gonna get your money anyway because good luck collecting, sucka. So it's it's just a lot of, like deconstruction of society right now and these kinds of fake beliefs that, you know, we have structures that function when in reality we don't. But that leaves an opportunity for us to build better systems assuming that we can get the people to wake up, which is a little annoying. They're like hitting snooze repeatedly.
And, I'm, you know, trying to wake them up. You're trying. So can't save them all, I guess.
[00:55:15] Unknown:
No. We can't. And it's just one one person at a time, I think. You know, and, obviously, if we can get at scale, you know, through music events and things like that and that's kinda how I think about, like, you know, the world is not coming to a Bitcoin conference, You know? That like, what? We had 20 some 1000 people. Pretty cool. No. Nashville was great, but, like, if you think about even I mean and hell, yeah. It was amazing. Right? But it's, like, 20 some 1000 people out of, you know, 7, 8,000,000,000 humans on earth. It's like we have to be in other people's stages and their in their audiences and whatnot. And so everybody's not gonna come to Bitcoin. We do have to have different ways that we feel like we can connect on other people's stages, you know, whatever that might be, a podcast or a music stage or, anything. And so I really feel like I mean, I'm still new. I'm super, like you know, I'm I'm not an OG like you, and I'm like, okay. I'm not a cryptographer. Should I be doing this? Hell, yes. Because I know how to talk my language to my folks, you know, and I should never stop. I saw it's so funny because I was gonna rename the podcast Proof of Love, and then I saw you guys did Proof of Love. And I was like, hell, yeah. Tell us about Proof of Love really quick.
[00:56:25] Unknown:
I haven't done proof of love in a while and I really wanna bring it back. Maybe you can join me because I wanna do it as like a spaces. Hell, yes. I will totally do it with you. Well, that's great because I think it's a it's a really necessary conversation. And when I look at the conversations around relationships online, I wanna vomit. It's really, really bad. And it become really vicious, you know. I'm not so sure if feminism was such a great deal for us ladies. Sorry.
[00:56:48] Unknown:
Well, it's a pendulum doing this bullshit. That's the whole thing. Exactly. And now we have people, you know, lionizing
[00:56:55] Unknown:
Andrew Tate just because he says a cool a couple cool, you know, quotes about freedom. But in reality, he's an actual pimp and he has, you know, whatever. I'm not a fan of Andrew Tate and I don't want men to think that, you know, men need good role models. They need strong role models. They do not need a holes like Andrew Tate telling them how to be pimp daddies. I mean, give me a nothing break. So, what I found was a lot of people in the crypto space and the tech space, just work hard, play hard, no emotional, development whatsoever.
And and also those conversations that were just so not technical, but just that kind of square kind of thought processes versus the other things that kind of fulfill them. I just felt like we were really lacking. You know, you can be a great business, you know, owner, but if you're ignoring your wife and kids or your husband and your dog or whatever, that's gonna catch up with you and then later on, you're not gonna be able to perform as well because you're gonna have a divorce on your hands. You're gonna be giving away half suckers. Perform as well because you're gonna have a divorce on your hands, you're gonna be giving away half suckers. So we don't want that to happen and also, I mean life is about living and living the full spectrum of emotions. So for myself, you know, I made my album, the 4th album called Love Songs For Idiots. It was, you know, know, I made my album, the 4th album called Love Songs for Idiots.
It was, you know, kind of funny because I was not finding my true love and you know, that was kind of a journey. But, you know and and we're all kind of idiots along that way, right? And so I was seeing barriers that I was putting up and I was thinking, okay, well if I want things to change then I also need to change my standards and I also need to change this about myself. I also can't allow for x y and z. And exploring that with other people was really fulfilling. Then COVID happened and also, you know, I was single then and sometimes it's hard to feel like you're not deficient for some way if you're single. Right? Because it's like it's a lonely world out there. So I think for a minute that came a little bit trickier for me, but I feel like I'm in a better place regarding that and I also just I'm frustrated seeing all the miserable content, you know, all these women. I don't need no man's. Like, I don't know if you ever owned a house because if you do, you'll learn real quick you need a man. Unless you're always a handyman every time, sister. Unless you've got lots of time to watch YouTube videos and I don't really care about fixing things. Yeah. So, you know, there has to be some kind of a balance where we appreciate the masculine, we appreciate the feminine, we don't go into some kind of toxic nonsense, which is what everybody has like you said, the pendulum has swung completely. It's not even on the hinges anymore. Right? It's fine. It is not on hinges. It's woah.
Yeah. Well, and if we're gonna outbreathe the status. Right? Like, we need to come back to to that love again and whether that's, you know, probably more importantly, love of self. One of my favorite episodes that we did was with Chris Grochong. I think you may know him, out of San Diego and he talked about, you know, alcoholism and come back from a little conference, you're like, oh man. You're like, I need to sew her up. But you know aside from those jokes and having a temporary hangover, you know, there's a lot of substance abuse issues that can come up and just different ways that we're masking ourselves. And I really enjoy diving into that stuff because I don't know. It's like we have to be more well rounded.
[01:00:16] Unknown:
We do. And and I love I love hearing this about you because I I didn't really know this whole side about you. So this is super cool because I'm I'm all about personal growth. I went through a giant, you know, shit show 8 years ago, went to rehab, almost died, you know, and I was like Right here. Yeah. Thank you. I'm me too. And so it's 8 years on it's on the night of the burn, on Labor Day night, whatever, the Saturday night. But I was like, what the fuck just happened? Because I was, like, the super mom. I was a super volunteer. I was a PTO president. I was an entrepreneur. I was a super wife. I was I used to DJ. Like, I had all these things that I thought, like, how could something this horrible happen to me because I'm supposed to be together? You know? And it was like bit by bit, all of these things I compromised on. And I said yes to my noes and no to my yeses and because I thought I was being dutiful in all of these areas. And I was neglecting myself.
I was neglecting my purpose. I was a whole bunch of stuff. And so like you said, if, like, you know, you can be a great businessperson, but if you're neglecting these other parts of your life, like, it the whole thing will collapse at some point if you have consistent, repetitive neglect in certain areas. And so so I just wanted to reverse engineer and understand, like, how could I have gotten to this point? You know? So I did a whole bunch of, you know, in-depth inventory and just thinking, like, how do all these parts fit together in my life, and how do they touch each other, and what are the common things that they have, and what overlaps and what doesn't. And so I recognize, like, everything overlaps. Nothing doesn't touch. You know, there's nothing isolated in our lives that's like, oh, this is how I work over here, but then my rest of my life is here. No. Everything touches each other, you know, holistically. And, and then I started just kind of putting together this this program to, like, rewrite your code. You know, like, I think of warrior code or Bushido code. And so it's like, what do we have a code of operating? Like, what are our operating system? Like, your operating system is gonna be different than mine. You know, but we still operate in the same category. So your set of values and beliefs are gonna be a little different than mine, but we're still gonna have the same principles that apply in these areas of our life. And so I think it's important as artists, as creatives, as activists to make sure that we don't fall through the cracks, you know. And and it's easy to, you know, numb out because we're overwhelmed and it's like, okay. But I'll just go have, you know, some more wine tonight and nobody's gonna know, you know, the whole thing. And and then we put on your own mask. You know what I mean? Like, it's a really easy it's not even necessarily a substance thing. I think that people can
[01:02:54] Unknown:
ignore their own problems by overly giving, you know, overly volunteering, overly, you know, People pleasing. You're in activism, you know. Like, yeah, activism is great, but like if you've got a messy backyard and, you know, you got skeletons under your bed and stuff, you might want to do some sweeping before you start telling everybody else how to live their life. And, a great, activist, Carrie Wedler, I would encourage you in the audience to check her out. Okay. She's the best. And she's the queen of this stuff. And she also kind of helped me realize that this is what was going on. So, you know, that's that's the that's the way that, you know, things kinda happen like after you've been in this space for a while. For example, I I used to have a lot of friends that, were libertarian and then they just quit and I was like, but why? This is so important. We can't live without your voice.
After a while I saw, well, because there's a bunch of hypocrites and these people are annoying and, after a while you you start thinking, I need to refocus my my energy back on me because I have the most control over what's gonna happen when I'm self focused versus trying to solve problems for other people. You know, no good deed goes unpunished is a weird life lesson too. You know, mind your own garden or whatever it is and and let other people make their own mistakes sometimes.
[01:04:16] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's so true. And I think it it is sort of a, like a change maker's dilemma or healer's dilemma. It's like we've got our own trauma, our own stuff that needs to be, you know, addressed and taken care of. But because it might be so overwhelming, we're like, it'll just be easier for me to go over here and kinda help you instead. And so we deflect our own, you know, or or or just distract ourselves from our own things. And, you know, and at some point point, you gotta pay the piper. You know, like, life will collapse on you if you don't uphold it, you know, holistically in all of these areas. And so that's why we see burnout. That's why we see people quitting and dropping out of certain things. And so it's like, how do you learn to maintain a consistent, you know, self practice so that you can go do whatever your mission is on Earth? You know, and your practice might be different every day than my practice, but making sure that, like you said, tending to our own garden is something super important and not just, Okay. I'm gonna tuck that sucker under the rug and we'll deal with it next year, you know. And eventually, you've got a mountain and then you're like, Oh, shit. Then you're in rehab.
[01:05:21] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm trying my best. I think, like, I'm definitely a work in progress. I also think after COVID, it's hard to take anything seriously. There's a certain listlessness that I've kind of taken in and I guess maybe some would call it depression. I don't even know if it gets a normal reaction to watching basically the most insane thing happen of our lifetimes and then everybody's just like nothing happened. What am I doing? Poster shot. I need a mask. I mean, we can't really where we're at. And and, you know, and then you've got these people who did all these terrible crimes and they're just getting away with it and we're just supposed to keep going and just being distracted by, oh, Kamala is drunk today. Like, okay. I'm glad that she's getting her her drink on, but, you know, there's just it's like there's like all these kind of like superficial distracting things that are happening and then there's root issues that seem to be suppressed. So Yeah. I think that, you know, we have to honor what we've been through and give it the space that we need, because it's still an ongoing battle. Right? I mean, there's What's gonna happen with monkeypox right now?
Yeah. Exactly. And and that's kinda you know, I have this upcoming event, called the counterparty, October 18th to 20th here in Miami. We'll go ahead and book it out. Okay. The whole point of it is called the counterparty because it's supposed to be anything to bring about a more peaceful world, but, like, not voting. I don't care about effing voting. I don't wanna hear about how the president's gonna save me or how the other president's gonna make my life worse. Like, they're all garbage as far as I'm concerned. So we need to come up with, with other things. But as I'm planning for this event here in Miami, I'm afraid because I'm like are they gonna shut something down? This seems like a time that they're gonna shut something down, but I can't just live in a weird paranoid world even though you can't.
Like I feel like every day I cannot make plans and I cannot look at the future anymore. I love my apartment in Miami and sometimes I'm like, I should leave because everybody's gonna start fighting each other and I only have certain bullets. I could shoot my way out of here. Like, I'm gonna start really going off and I'm like, I gotta go live on a farm and I need to learn how to kill a chicken. I don't wanna learn how to kill a chicken. I don't wanna kill anything. I don't wanna kill you know what I mean? Like, I I wanna I wanna even like weed a garden. Okay? So, you know, and and I don't wanna have to go and live in the middle of nowhere and not be socialized. Like, I like civilization.
[01:07:42] Unknown:
So Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. You don't know what's gonna happen and None of us do. And and but but this is the thing. I think it was yesterday, there was a post and they they showed a study and this was done like, a 100 years ago or some a long, long time ago. And they took 2 sheep and they put them each in in cages or, you know, pens. Like, they put the sheep in the pens. And then and then they put, like, a wolf or something outside of it or or coyote, whatever it was, but it was a predator. And but they couldn't get in, you know, so they did have a protection thing, but the the sheep could see the predator.
And so the the chemical reaction, obviously, we get stress hormones when we think there's a predator around us. Even though it's not actually doing something, it's just the thought or the sight of the predator and the unknown inputs all of the stress chemicals inside of our body. And so our immune response goes down. Our ability to be healthy goes down. And so they were showing that the sheep that were exposed to the visual experience of the wolf, they got sick and they died much, much sooner than the sheep that was just thinking like, cool. I'm just gonna do sheep, and here I am. And so I think about what's going on for all of us, you know, and you're saying like, I don't know about making plans and I'm this and I'm that. And so it's almost like we're, you know, these wolves are outside and even there's the shadows. Right? They're they're, what is it? The allegory of the cave. Like, that we think that it's this predator, but is it really, or are they just wanting us to think that so that we get scared and we we shrink?
[01:09:15] Unknown:
You know? And so I I feel like Do you think you do have, unfortunately, some real wolves out there at this point? There there are. I'm not suggesting that we're just yeah. How much bad news can you prepare for? I mean, I have a bingo card that is, you know, a mile long with all the different things. I got alien invasion. I got clones. I got, you know, presidential, like, civil wars. I've got all sorts of little options that could happen. You know, the mud flood, that's another hot popular one that I'm worried about. I mean, so after a while you just gotta I think that this actually brings a person back to God because Yes. We're all gonna die.
Yeah. And in a way, yeah, we're gonna wanna hang on as long as we can. But making a little bit of a peace with that aspect of the temperance of what we're doing as much as one can, right, I think could be useful. But I love that. Every day, there's a laundry list of what I have to do. So becoming an enlightened person and finding meaning, you know, before I,
[01:10:13] Unknown:
you know, hit the dirt is, sometimes it falls by the waist side and just regularly. But but and that's kind of I think in you know, and I love that you mentioned this because it's something that we do get distracted from, and we're operating down here at these lower levels of frequencies, right, instead of being up here with God and God consciousness, you know, whatever your version of God is. And it's designed to separate us from God so that we can get manipulated and extracted from, in my opinion. You know? And so I feel like the more that we can remember each day in all of these you know, whether you're sitting in a meditation practice or doing yoga or you're in a traffic light, like, the more that we can keep redirecting our consciousness and our energy to love and to God and to, like, the possibility of the future, then our I think, energetically, our systems can calm down a little bit and we're not gonna be as sick and manipulatable as we are. And so I really believe, you know, focusing on God first is is probably the best medicine that we can all do is is humanity. And, again, whatever your version of God looks like. And,
[01:11:20] Unknown:
so, yeah, I'll just leave it there. And Yep. I could so. By the way, I'm gonna throw this out to you. Maybe you can, like, just percolate on it, but I'm thinking about doing some kind of a decentralized church thing. Maybe, like, bible study or just some kind of a group of people that are interested in God. Maybe I'll partner up with some of those, thank God for Bitcoin friends of mine because I know a lot of those people. Totally. I think that that's what we're lacking a little bit. I think the problem is is that religion is annoying, but I mean, God and a connection to something higher and and giving like a profound meaning to life I think is very relatable and important in the context of what we're being challenged with.
And I found a fair amount of people in the Bitcoin space are really looking for that, are cultivating that if they are already in it. And so between the seekers and the found, I think that there are some other types of between the seekers and the found, I think that there are some other types of foundations that we can, that we can help, take hold and give us like, a leg to stand on going forward when things become, you know, more unstable.
[01:12:23] Unknown:
Well, maybe we can do just some beta experiences with proof of love and some spaces. You know, maybe we could have, like, week weekly hangout sessions. We could do, kind of a book club sort of thing or we're doing some challenges or whatever it might be, but we can make it a little structured so that there's, like, this is what we're doing for this month. We're gonna focus on this core value or we're gonna focus on this writing or whatever it might be, but just something that we can all kinda come together publicly, you know, and everybody's invited and talk about this kind of stuff and figure out where, you know, how can we ground that into our system on a daily basis too. So I'm down. I'd love to help you with that. So
[01:13:01] Unknown:
Excellent. Well, that'll be good. And and, yeah, if folks wanna pay attention, I'm I have to update the website, but, thecounterparty.com Okay. Is, what it is, thecounterparty.com. And, yeah, I'll start selling tickets and stuff soon. And then if the world closed down, well, I don't know. That'll be that.
[01:13:19] Unknown:
We'll see. Although, we're gonna be good. I think I don't have my glasses. Give me a sec here. Where did it go? Counterparty.com.
[01:13:25] Unknown:
Yeah. That's Yeah. That's it. I love this counterparty. That's a really cool name. But is it the counterparty? Because counterparty is actually a protocol that I like. So I just wanna make sure it's an event itself, the counterparty event. But is it thecounterparty.com or Correct. Yeah. The. Doctor. No. Thecounterparty.com. Doctor. Okay. Sorry. I got to edit that. That's what I like about these. Doctor. Because, yeah, I mean, the guys that the guys that actual counterparty, the protocol,
[01:13:50] Unknown:
hopefully, will be able to make it there. So cool. Okay. And so then let's so everybody can go there. They can go to, they can go to your website, tatianamorose.com,
[01:14:00] Unknown:
and then also following you on Twitter. Is there other places you want people to check you out? Like, are you on Instagram? Yeah. They can go to queen tatiana. I'm on, you know, like, YouTube, I guess. They can whatever. I mean, people know where to look for people. Right? I'm on everything. And if people wanna kinda hear my backstory, I'll probably start selling some Tatiana coins sometime too soon, at least just as a dispenser for people who wanna participate, at, tatianaemrose.com.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
Awesome. Well, congrats and I hope this goes well and, you know, hit me like tag me and stuff and I'll repost anything you're doing. And, yeah, we'll talk about some proof of love things going forward. I'd like to, you know, celebrate. We'll talk about it offline and then the the viewers today, they can they can join us too. Because I think that the nice thing about spaces is that,
[01:14:44] Unknown:
like, talking about relationships is definitely a group thing. So I think getting other people's opinions is is gonna really add a lot to it. So it'll be fun for sure. I think so too. It'll be great. And, any final words for the audience with, you know, life, love, Bitcoin? Stay peaceful, guys. Try and stay positive. Be nice to people. Try not to be a jerk. I'm also sometimes a jerk and cranky and stuff and, like, I'm trying my way. So just try and be gracious toward people and and extend, like, some some grace to them. I think that's really a thing because a lot of people are going nuts right now and I try and be tolerant and loving toward even the annoying ones, and we've got a lot of
[01:15:25] Unknown:
them. I know. I agree. I'm in the same boat. So I know I feel like more love and more kindness out there and definitely more self love and self kindness, too, because it's not easy out there for most of us. So, little little kindness goes a long way.
[01:15:40] Unknown:
Alright. Well, thank you again, Tatiana, for tuning in and sharing your story. Out. Yay. Keep the hope alive. Remember, bring peace back into Bitcoin. Yes. So Love it.
[01:15:50] Unknown:
Very cool. Thanks very much for having me on today. You're welcome. Alright, everybody. Thanks so much. Peace, love, and warm aloha. And, thanks again, Tati.
Hey, guys. Is it even possible for independent artists these days to make a living with their music? It's not easy. As we all know, there's the starving artist, phrase that unfortunately many of us have suffered through, and it's very challenging as an independent artist to get your work out there, to get revenue in, to engage and talk with your audience, and not have the algorithms do everything for you. So, my next guest, Tatiana Maroz, she is an OG Bitcoiner, a wonderful folk artist and singer. She is an activist and she's performed all over the world talking about Bitcoin, talking about freedom, talking about love.
We need more love in this world. And Tatiana is definitely somebody who represents that. And you guys have to tune into this episode if you want to learn about how Bitcoin can be added into one of your revenue streams if you're a creative, whether you're a DJ, a musician, an artist, a podcaster, a blogger, a writer, a filmmaker. How can Bitcoin get into your revenue stream? And how can you save in it? And how can you transact in it and get value with, from your audience and as you're delivering them all the wonderful value? So, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I did. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you on the other side. And don't forget, like, subscribe and share and do all the things that all those YouTuber guys tell us to do, on all the channels.
Hey, aloha. Get ready for an epic episode. And if you love it, please share it. You know why? Because you got the love. Enjoy, my friends. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. This is DJ Valerie Beloved. I have somebody here with me who is a pioneer in the Bitcoin and crypto space. She is an independent folk singer, and she is on a mission to help people understand why Bitcoin and crypto can help artists and musicians have a better life. She is an activist. She's somebody who is I'm I'm so excited to have Tatiana Moreau here. So welcome. Like, finally, you're here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be, joining you and all of our viewers to talk about my favorite subjects, music and Bitcoin.
[00:02:31] Unknown:
And, I'm sure because, you know, we have a love of peace in common that will also be a be a feature.
[00:02:37] Unknown:
Totally. Sorry. I think somebody was beeping me there. Yeah. No. People are beeping me. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I wasn't sure if it was my beeps. Okay. So, Tatiana, you obviously have an extensive history. You've been in Bitcoin for, you know, over a decade. And, you know, you're obviously a a traveling musician. You are a singer songwriter. You've been around the block, and you're also an activist. Can you help people understand, like, let's talk about your past and, like, how did you get here?
[00:03:04] Unknown:
Sure. So I grew up in New Jersey. My mom was from Warsaw. So I had a lot of historical context for the world, pretty early on in that, you know, of course, Poland was destroyed during World War 2 and, then had a long communist rule. So I think that that made me very naturally skeptical of the government. My father was also kind of, you know, not exactly, yay, government. He's like, it's all bullshit, Tanya. It's all bullshit. So, basically, you know, I I did have a little bit of a rebel spirit growing up. I listened to a lot of the music of the sixties seventies. All of those songwriters had a really big impact on me, especially around Cat Stevens because he was able to use music to convey a message specifically around peace and also, I mean, his music is just such a huge influence on me in general because he's, you know, like his songs are so He's trained, baby. Let's go. Yeah. Absolutely.
And so, I spent a lot of my time growing up thinking about how to have a positive impact on the world, what I could do through music and through any other ways to basically bring out, you know, a better outcome and I cared a lot about people. I watched the usual kind of documentaries, the usual things where people are kind of getting off of the system. But when I finally learned about the Federal Reserve, I think that that was the appropriate, like, that was the real window where I would say, you know, I I had my waking up moment. I realized, okay, this is how the scam works. And that led me down a path to learn about Austrian economics and to have a, I think, a more mature and well rounded view of how to like, how economies work and what policies sound good on the surface and how do they end up happening. Right? Like, right now you have, a lot of crazy policies being suggested and, you know, that could be being pretty rude.
But anyway, so I got into supporting Ron Paul. I was singing around the country doing tour with Doctor. Paul. It was amazing during 2012, and that was a really unique experience. And, once I saw though how corrupted that political process was, I became very disillusioned, you know. To me, watching what happened at the Tampa Republican National Convention, seeing all those people walking out and not getting any coverage, basically the nomination being stolen from doctor Paul. I figured if they're gonna break their own rules, why am I even playing in this game? Right? And and once again, you know, another dream was shattered. So, around that time, I was sponsored by BitPay and Tony and, Steven came up to New York and they sold me my first Bitcoins.
So I bought my first bitcoins at $11. No, I did not buy enough of them. I'm freezing until all. I was like, yeah. I had like perks, but pay. It wasn't exactly on the on the top of the, you know, offer letter. So, yeah. Basically, I learned about Bitcoin and I didn't really understand it at first. You know, that gave me a very good clue later on because once I did appreciate what the impact could be with Bitcoin, I realized that we needed somebody to help sell it to the normies because I already knew that the Federal Reserve was my arch enemy and yet, you know, I still couldn't get behind Bitcoin other than seeing my number go up which I liked. So I started telling, the recording studio kids around me, you know, all about Bitcoin. Everybody thought I was crazy. I would like to take credit for the hip hop community knowing about Bitcoin because I worked in a main hip hop recording studio And so like Busta Rhymes and Trey Songz and all these people they would come in and I would leave out Bitcoin magazines and why Bitcoins and just leave them out so I could, you know, orange pill them.
And you know the the hip hop world was like really receptive to Bitcoin. Right? And so in 2013, I made a Bitcoin jingle. In 2014, I took everything a step further by making Tatiana coin, which was the first artist coin, in the world. And basically the goal was to connect me deeply with my fans because I kept getting shadow banned because I'm a political, loudmouth. And like musicians, they're like, No, no. You can complain about these things within these parameters and otherwise just be quiet. Keep singing sister. Yep. Nope. I did not obey the commands and so yeah, I kind of went down the rabbit hole.
And then we created a company called Tokenly which was one of the first Web3 companies. I only recently when they started saying Web 3, I was like, oh, I guess I'm in Web 3 now. But like we didn't call it Web 3. We called it Bitcoin 2.0. It wasn't even blockchain back then. We did a lot of experiments starting with Tatiana coin making, you know, 3,000,000 of them on counterparty, which is on Bitcoin. So a lot of the inscriptions that are like, oh, we're the first ones on Bitcoin. It's like, not really, homies. So, you know, it was it was quite quite a long journey.
You know, I'm happy to tell you whatever questions, but just kinda seeing that space evolve and seeing the Bitcoin space, grow over the years and being able to kind of merge music with that, I think has been quite quite a journey. Quite a lot of action along the way.
[00:08:26] Unknown:
Yeah. I will. And I love how creative and entrepreneurial you are too because I think, obviously, as an an independent artist, we have to be. Like, unless we're, you know, lucky enough to have monster labels sponsoring us and doing all the business stuff for us, it's like we have to wear every hat, you know, as as an independent creative, in this world and in any of the fields, whether you're a musician, whether you're, you know, a physical artist, whatnot, digital artist. It's a lot to to do. So I applaud you and your your ability to to handle all this. Let's talk about, I just you said so many great things there. I wanna unpack a couple of things. So let's go back to Kat Stevens for a minute.
You know, because some of the the obviously, you know, I'm all about Bitcoin peace, music, love, etcetera. And, you know, I became a DJ because of the the the consciousness transformation that can take place when you have a person listening to a song or a group of people listening to a song or a massive group of people. And so the ability, you know, if you look at obviously, you're a fan of the Woodstock generation, as am I, and we think about, you know, wow, you know, the opportunity to create people to think in a new perspective, you know, and have hope and have possibility and have new dreams for the future.
Nothing has has really affected the social fabric, I think, as much as music, you know, and in that in that very quick thing. Like, you can be at a concert and all of a sudden, you hear get up, stand up, and quick thing. Like, you can be at a concert, and all of a sudden, you hear Get Up Stand Up and Bob Marley singing it or you got Imagine going on or you've got Peace Train by the Kat Stevens. You're just like, wow. You we we're here. We get it. Yay. And so there's that unity and that kumbaya ness. And the thing that I noticed about, you know, all of us as creators and and change makers is we've got all these big visions, and we've got these big dreams. You know? But, unfortunately, we have been building everything on the the toxic layer of fiat, you know? And so when Bitcoin came into the picture, it's like, wow, how can we build these big dreams, these big visions, these big social change movements, having music be an igniter, but still building it on this foundation of sound money. What's been your experience with, you know, the activist community and the artist community? I know you said the hip hop folks got it, but, like, are they, like are the the change making musicians that you're, you know, associating with, or do they get Bitcoin? Do they get why it's a revolutionary tool?
[00:10:54] Unknown:
I think that musicians are very left leaning, and there's a very strong imprint of what it means to be a radical revolutionary. And like I mentioned before, it's in a prescribed kind of zone. So when you're trying to talk with musicians about Bitcoin, on some level I think that they get it. But they're naturally inclined to think that, oh, money is evil, capitalism is bad, business is bad and all this stuff on their iPhones. Oh, the irony. You know? So they don't really fully necessarily get it, but I think that when they start imagining making money from it, it's appealing to them. But I don't think that they necessarily, in my experience, have really grasped the global impact. If anything, I think some artists are excited about like meme coins and stuff like that. I don't think that they are as conscious of why money has such a big impact as to what's going on in the world. Like, they don't think about inflation. They don't think about money printer go brrr.
And to me, that's the bigger battle, that's the bigger motivation has been to help people understand, yes, sure. I want people to like my music and whatever. But I want people to understand how we have been made into the slave class that we are And we're all under the illusion that we're also free and no, we're not homies. Like, I'm like, you call everybody homies. But like I like it. There you go. It must be my old hip hop studio days. Sometimes it comes down. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah. Like, I guess, you know, people really need a little bit more of an untethering. One of the benefits of COVID, what would benefit is that people have kind of detached from the matrix a little bit. They're stepping a little bit further back. The problem is is what is filling the void and how are they learning about that.
So for me, you know, I want artists to participate because I feel like we're the messengers And if you look into my Bitcoin jingle, look, I made a song recently, never give up. Yeah. And before that, it was the Bitcoin jingle. And the whole thing is to really try and get people to think differently about what money is and what a world could look like if we weren't, you know, chained to this, like, sinking ship. Right? That we're all kind of supposed to be swimming and, you know, keeping it up with our own work while some other guys are just, you know, sitting around eating caviar. So, I think that the impetus is there to save the world, but I think that the the, efforts are a bit misguided.
And then you've also got, you know, the different gamut of music. You've also seen a fair amount, Again, like, I'm not a hip hop person, not that I don't like to dance hip hop or that I don't like all hip hop, but I feel like it's a missed opportunity for that community to put out a positive message. And so I get pissed when I'm like, listen, guys. You know, we used to have some really good and we had Scene Wonder, we had Prince, we had Michael Jackson, we had like all this great music in the black community. Now the best we can come up with is like Ice Spice. I mean, come on, get it together. So, you know, I find that kind of disheartening but Yeah.
Maybe because, you know, hip hop is by nature kind of rebelish aside from the people that are, you know, being paid to promote stupid brands that nobody in the hood could even afford. I mean, they've already been screwed over by the system. So they're kind of receptive to that. They're also like the hustlers. Right? I mean, not for nothing, but like a lot of people in the hip hop world who are paying for studio time with drugs. That's awesome. We support that. Great little side business you got there. But I mean, because it's almost like how like a business person can appreciate the problem with controls on business in a different way than just a regular old employee can say like, oh, you're just a rich business owner, you're a landowner, blah blah blah. But like they don't really know what it's like on the other side.
I think that the hip hop community has really had an opportunity to go and like experience things in a in a much better way. So maybe that's why. But like, you know, I of course think of the rock and the country and the pop people because I want to have the biggest influence that I can. So I don't know. I mean, it's a work in progress. But I think that the tides are shifting and people are feeling more empowered to talk about, you know, what's on their mind. I just hope that they're not really serious about price controls and all this insanity, you know, taxing unrealized gains. I mean that's Oh my god. What? Yeah. Beyond email. It's really terrifying actually. It's totally terrifying. Well, that says, oh, I'm gonna leave the country. If they start putting in price controls, look, I know my history. I'm out of here. See you. I don't know where I'm going because that's the other problem. And and I think that we're on a global level coming to a point where we kinda have to stay and fight and nobody really wants to do that because we're all kinda fat and like we like fluoride and, you know, TV.
So and and look, women, if I didn't like fluoride, I don't have fluoridated toothpaste. I at least, you know, went past that step, but, you know, like, who wants to go out and fight? You know? And and even actually, what I find interesting is that in wars about 70, 75%, 70, 80% of the people that are, you know, given the task to kill somebody, they can't go through with it. So that's why they have to put all those military guys on drugs because they couldn't actually pull the trigger because humanity isn't kind of inclined in that way. But, you know, maybe we are gonna have to fight. I hope not. It seems like a informational war seems a lot easier to to have less bloodshed, but maybe it's more challenging because I think that we've been in a mental prison for a long time.
And even history itself is sort of falling apart. Right? Everybody's looking at old instances and old pieces of history that we had assumed were true and they're looking at them differently now. So, I mean, just the JFK thing. I mean, we're still talking about the JFK assassination. You know? That's pretty wild. And and people have lost faith in the system, so it's a very weird time to be alive. Very exciting, but It it is. It's exciting. It's terrifying. It's beautiful.
[00:17:16] Unknown:
There was a quote. I think it was I saw it the other day, and I don't wanna murder this person's name, Dostoevsky Dostoevsky. And it said, you know, beauty will save the world or something like that. And I and I believe that. Like and I think circling again back to our music, right, and it's one thing for us to go up there and put all the charts and the graphs and the this and the that and all the left brain stuff. If we can't activate people's emotions with positive lyrics, with positive messages, with the positive vibrations of certain frequencies of the music, right, because obviously we know certain keys can make you feel bright and cheery and certain keys can make you feel down and dark, and I wanna stab somebody at the horror show at the theater. So it's very intentional how we can use music to, you know, elevate or bring ourselves down and create that sense of beauty or perpetuate that sense of fear and that sense of slavery. Right? And so I think it's important, you know, I know for me when I DJ, I always wanna have different types of music to take people on journeys, but I always wanna have certain messages in the songs that are like programming us to believe and to get up and stand up and to never give up and all, you know, your song. And so it's super important that we remember, like, it's a tool, you know. And and music is a tool, you know, for our own selves, and it's obviously a tool for, you know, scaling these experiences. And so, let's talk I wanna talk about, let's talk about Ross, and let's talk about, you know well, we'll talk about ROS in a minute, if you don't mind. We'll pause that for a sec.
I wanna talk about, you know, what's the difference because a lot of people who are new to the space, right? When I started learning about Bitcoin, you know, three and a half years ago, I really I went to a blockchain conference, like, 6 years ago. And my girlfriend took me and she's like, Val, you can go make Val coin and la, la, la. And I'm like, well, who the hell is gonna buy Val coin? And what like, where where are they gonna sell it after? Where's the liquidity? Did I just rug pull these people? And so I I lumped in Bitcoin with crypto, and it was all just one big gobbledygook, and I didn't even think about it twice. And so, you know, fast forward to COVID, and I was like, well, I guess I gotta make some money. Maybe I'll go check out this crypto stuff. And then, you know, there was that Beeple sale, that NFT sale, that $69,000,000.
And I'm like, wow. How can this stuff help artists? How can it help creatives? You know? And so I started researching, and then I started learning the difference between Bitcoin and crypto and whatnot. And, you know, listening to Alex Gladstein, I was really interested in the money part of Bitcoin of like how can people escape authoritarian regimes, how can they escape situations that are unsafe and have a chance to start over again. So I just put all the other crypto stuff on the side and just, you know, said, okay. I've got this much little bandwidth in my tiny brain. I'm gonna focus on Bitcoin. Can you help people understand? Because I saw, like, people getting rug pulled and these NFT minting things and the crypto, and this token's gone now. And so how can you help our listeners, like, differentiate, you know, what's what's something that's safe and valid to kinda keep going toward and what's something that's not as an artist so that they're not rug getting rug pulled and that they're not rug pulling their audiences?
[00:20:29] Unknown:
Well, that was something that I really considered a lot when I made Tatiana coin. You know, they had launched Ethereum, but it wasn't actually you know, there were no tokens or anything. It was doing anything yet. But by then, people had introduced into the, you know, public conversation the term pump and dump, which of course I never had heard of. And I have one of my friends, ping me. Good friend of mine, not a jerk or anything, but he was asking me, hey, you know, let's pump and dump Tatiana pointe and look, would I have preferred to have made more than I don't know. What do we raise? Maybe like $30 or something like that. Like, sure, it would have been better to make more money than that. But, no, absolutely not. And it was really important for me to not do that because then you're not really creating a fair framework. You're not behaving with honor and we are blessed with something that I think deserves reverence and therefore an honorable treatment of it.
I have no idea what in the world is going on with these tokens these days. Like, I just listened this morning, to x about this guy on pump dot fun and they basically are just minting memes and then rugbling a run right after the other. And first of all, like, part of me is wondering how I can also do that just like easy job. He's just making like a bunch of money every day. And there's a bunch of willing suckers. Believe how many people wanna join the Shitcoin Casino. They're not there because somebody forced them to. They're there of their own volition. So I think it raises some interesting ethical questions. But at the end of the day, you know, if you wanna support an artist that you know, I think that that's, like, a better thesis. Right? So people like me, Tatiana Maroz, who has made many albums, who has made podcasts in this space, who's done, like, a bunch of stuff, like, they have trust with me. Right? Yeah. When I did my first Tatiana coin, I didn't print an album. It was fully funded with crypto.
So now I have, you know, a track record. And so when I go out and I try and sell Tatiana coins again, because I will be doing that because I wanna fundraise for my next album. Mhmm. You know, I I think that people will be able to tell that I'm legitimate. The problem is is that not everybody wants that. They want trash. They want their shit coin casino. So, you know, give them what they want. Right? I don't know, you know, on what basis people decide to make these purchases, but I imagine it's just it's not because they were like, oh, man. I'd really like to support an artist today. Some of them are choosing, you know, more easy example would be like a visual artist or something. They want that artwork. Yeah. A lot of times they're just wanting to make money. And so that's cool. Although, part of me is a little bit sad because I didn't do this and sacrifice so much in this community so we could just make a bunch of shitcoin casino things. I liked the fact that we were creating a money that would allow for peace and I liked that we were creating opportunities for artists to have sustainable careers and build communities without censorship.
So that's what's appealing to me. I think the, like, new NFT stuff seems really dumb. I don't think it's gonna make people like, maybe it'll I think it'll get at least part of those people to learn about Bitcoin and then I'm okay with it. Not because I need them to buy Bitcoin, but because I need them to understand that the Fed is not their friend and that the financial system is a disaster. So to me, our best bet for solving that is is within Bitcoin. Although, to be fair, I've been a little disappointed with the performance. And now you've got a bunch of different people in the community that want their businesses to work, so the government is coming down on them and they're like, what principles?
You know? And and so that that's a little bit frustrating to kind of watch play out, but, you know, to each their own, that we're all kinda guided by our own internal compass.
[00:24:28] Unknown:
We are. And I and I think it's it's I don't know. Bitcoin's definitely changed me in the way that I think about, you know, short and long term incentives, how am I going to make decisions, you know? So, is this a quick buck? Is this something that really is like worth the 10 year wait or however long it's going to be, you know, that I'm making the sacrifice right now? And so, I I think that's really important. I wanted this is a little side question, and we'll come back to Ross in a sec. Have you noticed like, for me, I'm obviously, you know, sparkly, Val, DJ, la la la. Like, do you notice people treat you differently in the Bitcoin world because you're a musician and maybe not take you as seriously as they would if you were somebody who's got, you know, the charts and the graphs and the book and the whole thing?
[00:25:11] Unknown:
Yes. Actually, I do think that. I don't think that that's always true. I think that there are a lot of advantages to being one of the more colorful characters. You I think you can develop very, very real relationships. But I remember 1 year as a Satoshi round table and I saw another OG who I had known for a while. And I don't remember what it was that I had lamented. I was like, oh, I don't know. You know, I I I was, like, vaguely complaining, I think, about something because that would prompt him to say what he did. And he's like, well, what are you even doing here? He's like, you just, like, make podcasts. And I thought that it was a really rude thing because you need you need everybody in this community. You can't just go discarding people because guess what? Like, you and your 4 nerds in your basement, nobody cares about you guys. But people wanna listen when I speak and maybe not another engineer doesn't wanna hear what I have to say. Totally.
That, like, that's fair. But you need to have that communication layer and you need to bring it back to reality. So I do think that sometimes there's a little bit of snobbery there. On the other hand, I could make a better effort to learn things from the technological standpoint. Right? But it's almost the same way then people are like, oh, well, why do you even have an engineer, working on your albums? And you could just edit it and and you know do the engineering yourself. I'm like, okay. First of all, because I don't have infinite time. Second of all, that person is talented at that. Yeah. I am talented at the singing part. That's how it works. Sure. I could spend some time and do a mediocre job and just have like a subpar project or I could go to an expert who actually has cultivated that skill throughout their entire life and that to me is kind of worthwhile. So, you know, whatever. There's haters everywhere. It's the same thing like being a woman or something in Bitcoin. Sometimes it's a benefit.
Sometimes you're showing up and some dude thinks it's a date and it's a real waste of time and it's very infuriating. So, you know, there's pluses and minuses to any character. You could be a super amazing developer, but nobody wants to talk to you because you're wearing a t shirt and you look like exactly like everybody else. Whereas me and you, we're going to the front of the line, baby. So that's just kinda how it is. And, and I try and have a little bit of a balanced approach at at looking at the the stuff otherwise. I mean, I've been bitter before, but I try not to do that. And people are a lot of times projecting their own nonsense when they're talking to you. But I was surprised when that guy said that. I was like, wow. Like, what have you been doing here? Like, you have no value at all. I was like, thanks.
[00:27:45] Unknown:
I know. It well, and it's a different your point is so well I mean, until we have hyperbitcoinization, we don't have enough voices out there. And everybody's not gonna hear the same message from the messenger if they look and smell and taste and all the stuff different from that audience. Like, if you're totally an alien to them, they're just gonna be like, yeah, I don't think so. So the more of us that can feel comfortable, like, okay, cool. You're a coach. You're a healer. You're a musician. You're an entrepreneur. You're an environmentalist. Like, get excited about, like, talking to those, you know, communities too. You know? So instead of thinking like you have to conform to some middle way of being a Bitcoiner, that's not gonna work. You know? And so, you know, a hedge fund guy is not gonna listen to you and I probably
[00:28:30] Unknown:
about You know? Bitcoin. You know? Maybe it'll be like, oh, but it's like of influencers will. And that's why I think it's so important. Like, we are the we are the voices. We amplify what we're doing and, you know, having famous musicians advocate for Bitcoin is pretty helpful. Not that I'm a famous musician, but I'm saying more broadly, like, if we had more artists that understand it, that was why I went after Tatiana Quinn as a concept because I was like, if we can get the artist behind this then they can, you know, proliferate the information to the people and there's a lot of trust that you have with an artist. You also have access to somebody on a very, very deep level, that you've never met just because they connect with you on your music. So why not use that power for good? And I and I think that's a big opportunity.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
I do too. And I think, you know, community building and fan base building is so important and because we're at the mercy of these giant tech companies and their algorithms, and you don't get to see who listen to your music on Spotify. Right? Like Right. You just know, okay. And I can see, like, a quarter of a penny or whatever. It's yeah. It's obscene. Yeah. You don't get to audit anything, and you don't even know if those numbers are accurate. And so, you know, the new ways for people to consume content and then share value with, you know, their favorite artists, I think, is very important. And so we were talking earlier about value for value, and you're like, why are they calling it value for value? It's just giving somebody money for the thing that you give back. So, you know, I think about, you know, podcasting 2.0 and Wave Lake and all of these other, you know, ways that people can, you know, zap some sats to people who, if it's a podcast or if it's a song, like, you can't do that on Spotify.
You know? You can't do that on Apple Music. You can go and click a link and go to someone's website and then go to Venmo and then go to the the the Patreon account, but that kind of instant artist support is is something I think that, technologically, this can, you know, get utilized, you know, so we can have some more, like, little streams of income. And so we were talking about
[00:30:36] Unknown:
yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No. No. I just feel like it's a little overstated, and I feel like that makes me really mad because look, I've seen the tip culture. I I remember when tip change change tip was around and, you know, I've seen the tip culture really change. People do not give tips anymore. And the thing is is that look, I put some songs out on Wave Link. Maybe I need to go out there and be like, rah rah, Wave Lake or whatever it is who I've talked to. I don't know. But the point is I made, like, $2. Okay? It costs a lot more money to make an album than, you know, let's say on average it cost me about $2 to produce a song because I'm using real musicians and stuff like that. Right? And frankly, I think I'm still getting a good deal with that, like, because I'm doing mastering engineering blah blah. But it's just I I'm not enthusiastic that people are so generous. I think that that has passed a lot. Like, when people started first doing any Google campaigns and all that stuff, people were making bank. I mean, every other day there's a new GoFundMe these days. People are tapped out and I think that we're at a different position. You know, I think it's it's really obvious that the world is afraid that we're about to go into a deep crazy, dark depression.
And, hopefully, that won't happen. But, you know, it's looking like there has to be some kind of a significant correction on the financial side. I can't get convinced that artists are going to survive off of, you know, 10¢, 5¢. And, you know, I had someone trying to convince me. He's like, but it's $10 that you never had before. I'm like, yeah, but it took me 3 hours to get signed up on this stupid site. So you guys $3 an hour. But, you know, I'm like, why is that helpful? Sure. I wanna be a part of it because it's cool to be in the new thing blah blah. But I mean, I have stuff to do. So, you know, when people talk to artists about joining the community, if you're gonna waste somebody's effing excuse my language, but, like, waste somebody's effing making them sign up for some stupid website. I mean, how many times I sign up for something completely on Bitcoin related for my music. Right? You fill it in, you fill in this part, you fill in that part, you upload a picture and it doesn't work, maybe it's a turn in and it's a high res like all that crap takes time. And then at the end of the day, you get absolutely nothing from it. And there's just been nothing but a series of mediocre music projects over, you know, a decade or so that are just trying to kind of tap into the indie artist and I applaud their efforts. It's really hard and really miserable.
But if you're an artist, f all that noise, go on buy some Bitcoin, get yourself a sugar daddy, a Splenda mama, whatever you wanna get and like like, I don't know, like you're not gonna value for value, like, sorry. Music, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have a lot of value these days and I would like it to. I would like it to be something different. Sure there's different ways that you can do it, but if even if you look at the DIY model, you know, I went to Berkeley in Boston. It's a really really good music school. Right? Yes. And what I found was that, you know, really great artists are not necessarily really great business people. No. They suck.
[00:33:42] Unknown:
That's why we have record labels.
[00:33:44] Unknown:
Yes. But the problem is the record labels are all evil and stuff and like, you know, making us like Exactly. Yes. She also wants to. But like, you know, I can think of this girl, Chris Kanaka, man. She was fantastic. But she didn't like, she's not gonna make posts like, hey, guys. What's up? Blah blah blah. Like and that's what they want you to do. So now, okay, Patreon's a pretty good idea. But, like you end up spending time connecting with your fans and and sometimes it's a genuine thing, sometimes it's something that you're just doing out of obligation and it's like, well, I would just like to have time to be human and to make music and not have to become a part time, you know, video blogger and, you know, oversharing everything and not being able to enjoy a moment without feeling like, God, I post Instagram, hashtag yeah, like, give me an f break. I wanna think about things that are more substantive than that.
So I maybe like I don't know where we're gonna end up. Right? Because we've got this whole Instagram culture that's fostering narcissism and you've got basically a bunch of kids that are like from divorce and mommy didn't love me and daddy's like a dick and so, you know, they're constantly looking for that source of approval. And I really want the shift to come back to something just of more substance because if I listen to music that came out 5, 10, 15 years ago and was a hit and then I listen to stuff that came out in the eighties and the seventies and the nineties, I mean, that is some timeless stuff and instead we're just stuck with like WAP and other dumb stuff. So, I don't know. Like, it's also a bit of a march toward Idiocracy if you saw that film.
[00:35:16] Unknown:
Oh my god, girl. It's like it's literally playing out in real time and I know when people haven't seen that, if you guys have not seen this show, you must go watch Idiocracy. Like, we are actually watching it, and it's in our world. It's
[00:35:30] Unknown:
how the hell did they predict everything? Like, it was just it's Yeah. It it was an even documentary. That's that's the running joke. Right? It is. That wasn't that wasn't the goal, but, like, we're really kinda, like, leaning in that direction now. Oh my god. It's so scary. No. I just I don't know. Well, I I'm hopeful that humanity and will will prevail and not just become idiotic, but
[00:35:53] Unknown:
it does seem like low IQ is is kinda taking over. So, you know, there's there's We celebrate we're celebrating mediocrity. We're celebrating entitlement. We're celebrating you know, we're giving the microphone to people who literally should never be speaking in public. It's like, no. You're we shouldn't be tailoring our social structures and norms around a few people who have, you know, a couple privileged ideas about how entitled they are. And so I I think it's very, it's very toxic what's happening right now, and I think it's very important for those of us who, you know, are lucky enough, not that we're perfect or anything, but if we can kinda see behind the curtain, keep talking about it and sharing, you know, the truth and using our voices and using our platforms to get, you know, common sense back into the equation of decision making out there.
Coming back really quick to, like, the GoFundMe and the Geysers and the value for value and all of this, like, I think so a couple years ago before, like, the splits and Noster and everything was around, I'd had this idea, and and I talk about it a lot, and it's still who knows if we can build this? I don't know. But you're right. The tipping culture is tough. Like, just this morning, I'm opening up signal and it's like, do you wanna make a donation? And I'm like, well, not right this second, but I will later. You know? And so my mind is just like, maybe later, maybe later. I don't wanna think about tipping. I don't wanna think about, you know Well, that's enough. Like, how many more tips do I have to give out every single day? Nothing about 40%. Like, no. Yeah. Totally. Well, but but if if we think about if we can shift the perspective of, like, we know right now that, like, we're the we're the we're the, the product, you know, because we're getting all the advertising and all this, and they're making all the money off of us. And so we're so used to free content. We're so used to free information that we don't intentionally value the people who are actually the content creators.
Blogger, a podcaster, a musician, you know, digital artist, you name it, because we're just so used to, like, oh, I can listen to that for free, and I don't need to support. However, your point is, like, do we want a bunch of half ass artists out there who are just throwing crap out there for us to have to sift through, or do we want financial incentives for the artists that we actually think are good so that they don't have to put on the McDonald's hat, you know, and then not get to go produce the music or the art that they're they're born for. You know? And so what are some ways that we can look at that? And so I thought, what if instead of having all these subscriptions and platforms and tips and da da da da da and Geyser funds, what if we could pull all the information from the places where we consume content, you know, any of the forms, whether it's the video, the music, you know, etcetera, and then have a tipping wallet. So let's say I have a budget every month, and I'm like, I'm I'm $10 a month. I wanna just make sure that everything I consume gets a tip. You know? And, you know, Michael Sailor's got a $1,000,000 a month because he's a patron of the arts, whatever. And so we fund the central wallet every month and it just gets topped off. And then at the end of the month, the the machines say, cool. You spent this many minutes listening to these songs and this, this, this, and that. And then each of those pieces of IP has their own wallet, and then it automatically splits to those pieces of content. And then whoever produced those pieces of content will have a sub split too. So if you're doing music production, you maybe have 5 or 10 people. If you're doing a movie, you've got a 100 people. So that to me is a way for us to start reconnecting again with our audiences and then realizing like, hey.
They want us to be successful. They don't wanna just, you know, consume my content for free, but they're exhausted. So how can I make their exhaustion in in the fatigue of tipping and being asked, how can I eliminate that for them? Like, how can the machines do the work for us in the background? So what do you think about that?
[00:39:41] Unknown:
I think that you need enough volume for it to be effective. That's the problem. Like, people will say, oh, look, we can get split your royalties. What royalties? What? I'm effing royalties losers. Like, okay. I'll give you an example. Okay. I was on, my my song, They'll Never Change from my first album. Ironically, it's a song about parents being just awful, like totally narcissistic and not paying attention. So they used it in Dance Moms. Right? And, yeah. And that girl, Sia, you know, the little girl Maddie Sigler that Sia tapped to Yes. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. Because little girl Sigler was dancing to my song, this thing. Right? And so even today, I'm constantly getting, you know, you get the apple like who's Shazaming you and whether Shazaming Damn song every time and it's like this is like a freaking 15 year old song and and do you know how much money I made from that from that licensing?
[00:40:40] Unknown:
I don't know. $60
[00:40:42] Unknown:
Nobody even asked me. Nobody went to me and said, hey, Tatiana, this is like a great opportunity. Nothing. So I maybe maybe made $200 off of that, if that. And so, like, I don't think that there's that many royalties to go around here if if a song costs $2,000 to record, right? So, and and maybe you can get them down a little bit if you're doing a full album at once. But the point is is like the math isn't mathing and unless you have, you know, millions and millions of listeners then you can start generating money, which is maybe why some of these more personalized relationships are cool. But then all of a sudden you're like, I use this expression before, like a splendid daddy. Right? All of a sudden your fan is treating you like because they have all this access to you and now it's a little bit, it's a little overbearing a little bit. Right? So, I don't know. You know, you're asking them for for stuff and that's like the exchange of value in general. Right? But Yeah. I mean, I just wanna make a song and then people say I like that song. Here's a dollar or whatever it is. And frankly, I'd like them to give me more than a dollar because a couple dollars is not gonna cover my expenses. So I'm constantly trying to think of where will artists make money because I personally do not think that people are loving tipping all day long. People are cheap. They are going to continue to be cheap. People are not gonna be able to afford food soon. You know, like, I want them to be I want artists to not just depend on a couple kind people that are giving you, you know, $10 a month to show their patronage as much as I agree with that. And I No. And of course yeah. That that's obviously
[00:42:25] Unknown:
again, it's one stream of revenue if you think of. Obviously, touring is where most people will make the the bulk of their their money if you're an independent artist. And but that's Come out. That's not sustain that's not sustainable. Like, you can't be on tour, you know, 300 days a year if you're making, you know, a small amount of money at every show. So it's just very it's a difficult proposition for artists to keep moving forward if they don't have multiple streams of revenue, you know, that they can count on. And so but you have to take the consumer and the fans into place. And I think of, you know, Kevin Kelly's 1,000 true fans. Right? It's like, who's your core fan? As long as you're not, like you said, feeling like, oh, they've got all this access to me. Now they've I've gotta be in this weird relationship thing. So, you know, you get to design that obviously as a an artist and a creator and how much, you know, how much space you keep between your your people. Yeah. But I just wanted to add one thing like that. A lot of times, people like, oh, you can make money from merch and and,
[00:43:25] Unknown:
touring. Okay. Merch, fine. So I buy a bunch of t shirts. Now they're taking up big space in my apartment. I spent like $8 on them. I'm selling them for $15, you know, after all that, what am I gonna make? $500 now? I've just had some stupid ass shirts sitting in my apartment for, you know, a year. I how is that a business model exactly? And then people talk about touring. I have my friend, my engineer friend and he does a lot of gigs. He has a Grammy. He works with really talented artists. They're, you know, indie artists, but they're going out on tour and I'm like, wow, how are you guys paying for this? And I'm like, are you guys making money? And every effing time nobody's making any money. These artists are coming out of pocket so they could get exposure that maybe Rosier, you're getting exposure. Come on my my bill. No. Fuck off. I need to get paid. Annoying. I want my landlord to give me exposure payment deductions. I mean, great.
So I think a lot of times when people are you know, they see you and they're like, oh, oh, wow. It's so cool you're playing this show. You must be so cool. They don't know that I didn't get paid. They don't know that I'm just like there, you know. Sometimes, yeah, you get paid. Somebody takes you there. But a lot of times, God, how many shows that I do there, you know, for free and and I was supposed to get something out of it and I'm just over it. We need a real model so we cannot be waitresses, so we don't have to get stupid lame day jobs, so we can actually get health insurance and not avoid going to the doctor because we can't afford damn co pay. You know? It's it's too much. It's not it's not sustainable. And if people love their music, which they do,
[00:44:59] Unknown:
that model is gonna have to keep evolving. And I don't think we're there yet. We've got a little bit to go. Yeah. I think we've got a long bit to go. And, again, you're dealing with, you know, everybody can be a producer now on their telephone. You know, if like you said, obviously, if you wanna use real musicians and real, you know, engineers and whatnot, you've gotta pay for that. But because we've got this, you know, all of these apps, you can go, you know, make your voice sound a certain way. Now, we've got all the AI stuff that's even going to make it way more trippier. So, it's like the volume of crap that's out there for us to sift through, you know, as consumer and as a, as an artist to get our messages out there is growing exponentially because of the ease of production.
You know? And so it doesn't cost anything other than maybe a dollar a month if you're downloading some weird app. Right? Let's talk about the shirt you're wearing. Here, I'm gonna take this off so we can see it. Let's talk about free Ross day 1. You wanna talk about Ross?
[00:46:00] Unknown:
Sure. So I've been involved, with the Ulbricht family for a really long time. Like I said, I learned about Bitcoin in 2012. I remember in 2013 in October, going to a conference in Atlanta hearing about, you know, Ross Ulbricht was arrested and and Silk Road this and that. And I was thinking, you know, this is kind of dumb, not for nothing. But I mean you make a drug website, what do you think was gonna happen? Right? So I was very ignorant to the reality of the community that had formed around, the Slope Road and also about a lot of the challenges in the drug war. You know, everybody knows thumbs down for the drug war, but once you really get under the hood, it's a real mess underneath there and it's just a horror show.
And, so I met Lynn Albrecht, Ross's mom, at an event and I was doing podcasts for the Tatiana show and I interviewed her and her story was just so moving, you know, it's a lot easier to find, a connection point with a grieving mother versus, you know, a kingpin from the news. They made him sound terrible. Course, you know, I knew a little bit better, right, because I'm a rebel and I'm cool. So I knew that he was cool and, you know, through his mom I got to go and visit him and I was the first person in the Bitcoin community that was able to visit him. So Yeah. And and I visited him probably a dozen times over the years.
So quite a lot of different times we developed a close friendship and, you know, we would write letters and stuff. And it got to the point where when I put out my album that was funded with Tatiana coin, Keep the Faith, he had taken a photo of me, made by a famous, libertarian photographer, Judd Weiss, and he, made a hand drawing of it and he did it in his prison cell. And so I decided I'm gonna make this my album cover And why is that? Because it illustrates a couple points. Number 1, it brings attention to my friend Ross and and his play and it also illustrates why artists need an artist coin. Because if I was signed to a major label, they're not going to yeah, there it is.
They're not necessarily going to allow me to use, you know, prison art by like a political dissident. Right? I mean, I actually think of Ross as a political prisoner. Right? And and, you know, artists need to be able to stand up for what they think is important. That's our pushback role in the in the world. And, you know, for me, the Ross thing became a really big, passionate cause that I was involved in. Seeing how many prisoners there were and, you know, seeing how Lynn could be a voice for them because she was, relatable but also articulate.
You know, not everybody who's in prison who got a bum rap has a mom as amazing as Lynn, but she's actually able to articulate and illustrate what is happening in that world, in a dirty world that most people don't ever want to know, right? We think, oh, jail guy's gross. But actually there's a lot of people there that don't belong there and what's really gross is the, drug war itself. Right? So, got to know Ross. Ross is an incredibly, really, really incredibly unique person and somebody who has used his time in a commendable way since he was imprisoned.
You know, maybe building the Silk Road was a misguided libertarian idea, but, you know, he's been in jail for a very very long time. I mean one might argue that the drug war is more immoral and they even did studies showing that Silk Road made the drug industry safer because it kind of got it out of the streets and the rating system prevented having tainted drugs that would cause overdoses and stuff. But regardless, you know, no victim, really came forward and what's interesting is is that when they sentenced Ross, the judge, Catherine Forrest, said that she did it to deter future people and specifically citing his political views that she found so disturbing.
Now you have Blake Bentall who created Silk Road 2. He was just at the Nashville conference because he basically served barely any time like less than a year if that. I think, you know, some people say that he only spent 14 days, but let's say it was a year awaiting trial. Basically, they took him in, he plead guilty and they said, Great. Why don't you build us a tracking machine and then we'll let you out of here? So he goes in, he builds like some kind of a chain analysis for the government just what the spirit is of this community. Right? And, and now he made his own business and the guy who arrested him, one of the arresting feds who incidentally worked on the Ross case and did not offer this to Ross, they basically invested in this guy's company.
Like, how can you investigate somebody, arrest them, be a fed, get them out of jail, force them to make you a free product, and then start investing in it. I mean, it's completely beyond the pale. So this case is has been fraught with corruption. That's the least of what we have to worry about. And, you know, the time has come where Ross must be freed. It's been over 10 years. So many people around the world who've been moved by this story is a blight on the, you know, American justice system and it needs to be rectified. So seeing Trump, saying Free Ross was was awesome.
I, of course, wish he had done that the last time when he had the chance, but better late than never. Hopefully, we can get to that point and if Kamala wants to neutralize Trump, she should compete and she should free Ross sooner. Everybody's got a chance here. We could all free Ross. But, you know, Ross is only one of the many people that are suffering because of the drug war. We have a completely unbalanced justice system where violent criminals and pedos are going free. But, oh, no, not those drug dealers. Why? Because they're competing with the government. The biggest drug dealers in the world are the government. Right? I mean, they love that stuff. That's how they fund their dirty black operations is by having, the illegal drug trade under their thumb. They're a bunch of, you know, whatever. The people are waking up and hopefully, Ross will be free soon. I doubt he will be creating any kind of, you know, trouble when he gets out and that's good, you know. Let's let him let's let him enjoy his life. He's paid the toll.
He has, you know, really made a lot of sacrifices for liberty and and while in prison, he has spent a lot of time helping to rehabilitate other prisoners, mentor them, educate them, you know, guiding them through the GED meditations, all different kinds of really cool stuff. So we should all be, we should all be so I don't know. I guess, like, human as as Ross. He's really tapped into a lot of good things, even though he's been dealt a a pretty bad hand. And there's a song on on the album called Silk Road. So people wanna listen to it, they can check it out. Right. I'm gonna yeah. I'll put all the links and everything in the show notes for people to check this stuff out. I know it's such a
[00:53:18] Unknown:
I can't imagine. I got to meet Lynn in Nashville recently and, you know, I was like, what can we do to help? You know? And how can I help? You know? And she was like, we have 10,000 T shirts and, like, the exact one that you're wearing. And I was like, alright. Let's try to hand them out to everybody in line who's gonna wait for Trump. You know? And just every tiny little thing can hopefully matter, and you just never know what the the tipping point is gonna be for someone's consciousness to wake up to say, like, yeah. This is absolutely, like, wrong. You know? And, I mean, I look I equate it to, like, okay. You're gonna put Steve Jobs in jail because he made an iPhone and drug dealers use the iPhone?
It that's just stupid. You know? And so terrorists use the iPhones. You know, bad guys use it's just it's stupid. And so to say Where is Epstein's where where all his clients?
[00:54:09] Unknown:
Yeah. They're They're nothing great. This whole thing is nonsense. I really wish I never watched Ally McBeal. I always credit that to my ignorance as to the legal system. Right? You know, you're at home, you walk through a little shop, you think, yeah, that's just it is and you don't know anything about anything. That's why I found Bitcoin so interesting in the idea of smart contracts because I kept being screwed over and, you know, when I asked for my money, dudes are groping me and I'm saying, hey, that wasn't in the contract, bro. And actually, you know what you could do with your contract? You could light it on fire because nothing's worthless unless you have enough money to take somebody to court. And guess what? Exactly. You win in court, you're not gonna get your money anyway because good luck collecting, sucka. So it's it's just a lot of, like deconstruction of society right now and these kinds of fake beliefs that, you know, we have structures that function when in reality we don't. But that leaves an opportunity for us to build better systems assuming that we can get the people to wake up, which is a little annoying. They're like hitting snooze repeatedly.
And, I'm, you know, trying to wake them up. You're trying. So can't save them all, I guess.
[00:55:15] Unknown:
No. We can't. And it's just one one person at a time, I think. You know, and, obviously, if we can get at scale, you know, through music events and things like that and that's kinda how I think about, like, you know, the world is not coming to a Bitcoin conference, You know? That like, what? We had 20 some 1000 people. Pretty cool. No. Nashville was great, but, like, if you think about even I mean and hell, yeah. It was amazing. Right? But it's, like, 20 some 1000 people out of, you know, 7, 8,000,000,000 humans on earth. It's like we have to be in other people's stages and their in their audiences and whatnot. And so everybody's not gonna come to Bitcoin. We do have to have different ways that we feel like we can connect on other people's stages, you know, whatever that might be, a podcast or a music stage or, anything. And so I really feel like I mean, I'm still new. I'm super, like you know, I'm I'm not an OG like you, and I'm like, okay. I'm not a cryptographer. Should I be doing this? Hell, yes. Because I know how to talk my language to my folks, you know, and I should never stop. I saw it's so funny because I was gonna rename the podcast Proof of Love, and then I saw you guys did Proof of Love. And I was like, hell, yeah. Tell us about Proof of Love really quick.
[00:56:25] Unknown:
I haven't done proof of love in a while and I really wanna bring it back. Maybe you can join me because I wanna do it as like a spaces. Hell, yes. I will totally do it with you. Well, that's great because I think it's a it's a really necessary conversation. And when I look at the conversations around relationships online, I wanna vomit. It's really, really bad. And it become really vicious, you know. I'm not so sure if feminism was such a great deal for us ladies. Sorry.
[00:56:48] Unknown:
Well, it's a pendulum doing this bullshit. That's the whole thing. Exactly. And now we have people, you know, lionizing
[00:56:55] Unknown:
Andrew Tate just because he says a cool a couple cool, you know, quotes about freedom. But in reality, he's an actual pimp and he has, you know, whatever. I'm not a fan of Andrew Tate and I don't want men to think that, you know, men need good role models. They need strong role models. They do not need a holes like Andrew Tate telling them how to be pimp daddies. I mean, give me a nothing break. So, what I found was a lot of people in the crypto space and the tech space, just work hard, play hard, no emotional, development whatsoever.
And and also those conversations that were just so not technical, but just that kind of square kind of thought processes versus the other things that kind of fulfill them. I just felt like we were really lacking. You know, you can be a great business, you know, owner, but if you're ignoring your wife and kids or your husband and your dog or whatever, that's gonna catch up with you and then later on, you're not gonna be able to perform as well because you're gonna have a divorce on your hands. You're gonna be giving away half suckers. Perform as well because you're gonna have a divorce on your hands, you're gonna be giving away half suckers. So we don't want that to happen and also, I mean life is about living and living the full spectrum of emotions. So for myself, you know, I made my album, the 4th album called Love Songs For Idiots. It was, you know, know, I made my album, the 4th album called Love Songs for Idiots.
It was, you know, kind of funny because I was not finding my true love and you know, that was kind of a journey. But, you know and and we're all kind of idiots along that way, right? And so I was seeing barriers that I was putting up and I was thinking, okay, well if I want things to change then I also need to change my standards and I also need to change this about myself. I also can't allow for x y and z. And exploring that with other people was really fulfilling. Then COVID happened and also, you know, I was single then and sometimes it's hard to feel like you're not deficient for some way if you're single. Right? Because it's like it's a lonely world out there. So I think for a minute that came a little bit trickier for me, but I feel like I'm in a better place regarding that and I also just I'm frustrated seeing all the miserable content, you know, all these women. I don't need no man's. Like, I don't know if you ever owned a house because if you do, you'll learn real quick you need a man. Unless you're always a handyman every time, sister. Unless you've got lots of time to watch YouTube videos and I don't really care about fixing things. Yeah. So, you know, there has to be some kind of a balance where we appreciate the masculine, we appreciate the feminine, we don't go into some kind of toxic nonsense, which is what everybody has like you said, the pendulum has swung completely. It's not even on the hinges anymore. Right? It's fine. It is not on hinges. It's woah.
Yeah. Well, and if we're gonna outbreathe the status. Right? Like, we need to come back to to that love again and whether that's, you know, probably more importantly, love of self. One of my favorite episodes that we did was with Chris Grochong. I think you may know him, out of San Diego and he talked about, you know, alcoholism and come back from a little conference, you're like, oh man. You're like, I need to sew her up. But you know aside from those jokes and having a temporary hangover, you know, there's a lot of substance abuse issues that can come up and just different ways that we're masking ourselves. And I really enjoy diving into that stuff because I don't know. It's like we have to be more well rounded.
[01:00:16] Unknown:
We do. And and I love I love hearing this about you because I I didn't really know this whole side about you. So this is super cool because I'm I'm all about personal growth. I went through a giant, you know, shit show 8 years ago, went to rehab, almost died, you know, and I was like Right here. Yeah. Thank you. I'm me too. And so it's 8 years on it's on the night of the burn, on Labor Day night, whatever, the Saturday night. But I was like, what the fuck just happened? Because I was, like, the super mom. I was a super volunteer. I was a PTO president. I was an entrepreneur. I was a super wife. I was I used to DJ. Like, I had all these things that I thought, like, how could something this horrible happen to me because I'm supposed to be together? You know? And it was like bit by bit, all of these things I compromised on. And I said yes to my noes and no to my yeses and because I thought I was being dutiful in all of these areas. And I was neglecting myself.
I was neglecting my purpose. I was a whole bunch of stuff. And so like you said, if, like, you know, you can be a great businessperson, but if you're neglecting these other parts of your life, like, it the whole thing will collapse at some point if you have consistent, repetitive neglect in certain areas. And so so I just wanted to reverse engineer and understand, like, how could I have gotten to this point? You know? So I did a whole bunch of, you know, in-depth inventory and just thinking, like, how do all these parts fit together in my life, and how do they touch each other, and what are the common things that they have, and what overlaps and what doesn't. And so I recognize, like, everything overlaps. Nothing doesn't touch. You know, there's nothing isolated in our lives that's like, oh, this is how I work over here, but then my rest of my life is here. No. Everything touches each other, you know, holistically. And, and then I started just kind of putting together this this program to, like, rewrite your code. You know, like, I think of warrior code or Bushido code. And so it's like, what do we have a code of operating? Like, what are our operating system? Like, your operating system is gonna be different than mine. You know, but we still operate in the same category. So your set of values and beliefs are gonna be a little different than mine, but we're still gonna have the same principles that apply in these areas of our life. And so I think it's important as artists, as creatives, as activists to make sure that we don't fall through the cracks, you know. And and it's easy to, you know, numb out because we're overwhelmed and it's like, okay. But I'll just go have, you know, some more wine tonight and nobody's gonna know, you know, the whole thing. And and then we put on your own mask. You know what I mean? Like, it's a really easy it's not even necessarily a substance thing. I think that people can
[01:02:54] Unknown:
ignore their own problems by overly giving, you know, overly volunteering, overly, you know, People pleasing. You're in activism, you know. Like, yeah, activism is great, but like if you've got a messy backyard and, you know, you got skeletons under your bed and stuff, you might want to do some sweeping before you start telling everybody else how to live their life. And, a great, activist, Carrie Wedler, I would encourage you in the audience to check her out. Okay. She's the best. And she's the queen of this stuff. And she also kind of helped me realize that this is what was going on. So, you know, that's that's the that's the way that, you know, things kinda happen like after you've been in this space for a while. For example, I I used to have a lot of friends that, were libertarian and then they just quit and I was like, but why? This is so important. We can't live without your voice.
After a while I saw, well, because there's a bunch of hypocrites and these people are annoying and, after a while you you start thinking, I need to refocus my my energy back on me because I have the most control over what's gonna happen when I'm self focused versus trying to solve problems for other people. You know, no good deed goes unpunished is a weird life lesson too. You know, mind your own garden or whatever it is and and let other people make their own mistakes sometimes.
[01:04:16] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's so true. And I think it it is sort of a, like a change maker's dilemma or healer's dilemma. It's like we've got our own trauma, our own stuff that needs to be, you know, addressed and taken care of. But because it might be so overwhelming, we're like, it'll just be easier for me to go over here and kinda help you instead. And so we deflect our own, you know, or or or just distract ourselves from our own things. And, you know, and at some point point, you gotta pay the piper. You know, like, life will collapse on you if you don't uphold it, you know, holistically in all of these areas. And so that's why we see burnout. That's why we see people quitting and dropping out of certain things. And so it's like, how do you learn to maintain a consistent, you know, self practice so that you can go do whatever your mission is on Earth? You know, and your practice might be different every day than my practice, but making sure that, like you said, tending to our own garden is something super important and not just, Okay. I'm gonna tuck that sucker under the rug and we'll deal with it next year, you know. And eventually, you've got a mountain and then you're like, Oh, shit. Then you're in rehab.
[01:05:21] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm trying my best. I think, like, I'm definitely a work in progress. I also think after COVID, it's hard to take anything seriously. There's a certain listlessness that I've kind of taken in and I guess maybe some would call it depression. I don't even know if it gets a normal reaction to watching basically the most insane thing happen of our lifetimes and then everybody's just like nothing happened. What am I doing? Poster shot. I need a mask. I mean, we can't really where we're at. And and, you know, and then you've got these people who did all these terrible crimes and they're just getting away with it and we're just supposed to keep going and just being distracted by, oh, Kamala is drunk today. Like, okay. I'm glad that she's getting her her drink on, but, you know, there's just it's like there's like all these kind of like superficial distracting things that are happening and then there's root issues that seem to be suppressed. So Yeah. I think that, you know, we have to honor what we've been through and give it the space that we need, because it's still an ongoing battle. Right? I mean, there's What's gonna happen with monkeypox right now?
Yeah. Exactly. And and that's kinda you know, I have this upcoming event, called the counterparty, October 18th to 20th here in Miami. We'll go ahead and book it out. Okay. The whole point of it is called the counterparty because it's supposed to be anything to bring about a more peaceful world, but, like, not voting. I don't care about effing voting. I don't wanna hear about how the president's gonna save me or how the other president's gonna make my life worse. Like, they're all garbage as far as I'm concerned. So we need to come up with, with other things. But as I'm planning for this event here in Miami, I'm afraid because I'm like are they gonna shut something down? This seems like a time that they're gonna shut something down, but I can't just live in a weird paranoid world even though you can't.
Like I feel like every day I cannot make plans and I cannot look at the future anymore. I love my apartment in Miami and sometimes I'm like, I should leave because everybody's gonna start fighting each other and I only have certain bullets. I could shoot my way out of here. Like, I'm gonna start really going off and I'm like, I gotta go live on a farm and I need to learn how to kill a chicken. I don't wanna learn how to kill a chicken. I don't wanna kill anything. I don't wanna kill you know what I mean? Like, I I wanna I wanna even like weed a garden. Okay? So, you know, and and I don't wanna have to go and live in the middle of nowhere and not be socialized. Like, I like civilization.
[01:07:42] Unknown:
So Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. You don't know what's gonna happen and None of us do. And and but but this is the thing. I think it was yesterday, there was a post and they they showed a study and this was done like, a 100 years ago or some a long, long time ago. And they took 2 sheep and they put them each in in cages or, you know, pens. Like, they put the sheep in the pens. And then and then they put, like, a wolf or something outside of it or or coyote, whatever it was, but it was a predator. And but they couldn't get in, you know, so they did have a protection thing, but the the sheep could see the predator.
And so the the chemical reaction, obviously, we get stress hormones when we think there's a predator around us. Even though it's not actually doing something, it's just the thought or the sight of the predator and the unknown inputs all of the stress chemicals inside of our body. And so our immune response goes down. Our ability to be healthy goes down. And so they were showing that the sheep that were exposed to the visual experience of the wolf, they got sick and they died much, much sooner than the sheep that was just thinking like, cool. I'm just gonna do sheep, and here I am. And so I think about what's going on for all of us, you know, and you're saying like, I don't know about making plans and I'm this and I'm that. And so it's almost like we're, you know, these wolves are outside and even there's the shadows. Right? They're they're, what is it? The allegory of the cave. Like, that we think that it's this predator, but is it really, or are they just wanting us to think that so that we get scared and we we shrink?
[01:09:15] Unknown:
You know? And so I I feel like Do you think you do have, unfortunately, some real wolves out there at this point? There there are. I'm not suggesting that we're just yeah. How much bad news can you prepare for? I mean, I have a bingo card that is, you know, a mile long with all the different things. I got alien invasion. I got clones. I got, you know, presidential, like, civil wars. I've got all sorts of little options that could happen. You know, the mud flood, that's another hot popular one that I'm worried about. I mean, so after a while you just gotta I think that this actually brings a person back to God because Yes. We're all gonna die.
Yeah. And in a way, yeah, we're gonna wanna hang on as long as we can. But making a little bit of a peace with that aspect of the temperance of what we're doing as much as one can, right, I think could be useful. But I love that. Every day, there's a laundry list of what I have to do. So becoming an enlightened person and finding meaning, you know, before I,
[01:10:13] Unknown:
you know, hit the dirt is, sometimes it falls by the waist side and just regularly. But but and that's kind of I think in you know, and I love that you mentioned this because it's something that we do get distracted from, and we're operating down here at these lower levels of frequencies, right, instead of being up here with God and God consciousness, you know, whatever your version of God is. And it's designed to separate us from God so that we can get manipulated and extracted from, in my opinion. You know? And so I feel like the more that we can remember each day in all of these you know, whether you're sitting in a meditation practice or doing yoga or you're in a traffic light, like, the more that we can keep redirecting our consciousness and our energy to love and to God and to, like, the possibility of the future, then our I think, energetically, our systems can calm down a little bit and we're not gonna be as sick and manipulatable as we are. And so I really believe, you know, focusing on God first is is probably the best medicine that we can all do is is humanity. And, again, whatever your version of God looks like. And,
[01:11:20] Unknown:
so, yeah, I'll just leave it there. And Yep. I could so. By the way, I'm gonna throw this out to you. Maybe you can, like, just percolate on it, but I'm thinking about doing some kind of a decentralized church thing. Maybe, like, bible study or just some kind of a group of people that are interested in God. Maybe I'll partner up with some of those, thank God for Bitcoin friends of mine because I know a lot of those people. Totally. I think that that's what we're lacking a little bit. I think the problem is is that religion is annoying, but I mean, God and a connection to something higher and and giving like a profound meaning to life I think is very relatable and important in the context of what we're being challenged with.
And I found a fair amount of people in the Bitcoin space are really looking for that, are cultivating that if they are already in it. And so between the seekers and the found, I think that there are some other types of between the seekers and the found, I think that there are some other types of foundations that we can, that we can help, take hold and give us like, a leg to stand on going forward when things become, you know, more unstable.
[01:12:23] Unknown:
Well, maybe we can do just some beta experiences with proof of love and some spaces. You know, maybe we could have, like, week weekly hangout sessions. We could do, kind of a book club sort of thing or we're doing some challenges or whatever it might be, but we can make it a little structured so that there's, like, this is what we're doing for this month. We're gonna focus on this core value or we're gonna focus on this writing or whatever it might be, but just something that we can all kinda come together publicly, you know, and everybody's invited and talk about this kind of stuff and figure out where, you know, how can we ground that into our system on a daily basis too. So I'm down. I'd love to help you with that. So
[01:13:01] Unknown:
Excellent. Well, that'll be good. And and, yeah, if folks wanna pay attention, I'm I have to update the website, but, thecounterparty.com Okay. Is, what it is, thecounterparty.com. And, yeah, I'll start selling tickets and stuff soon. And then if the world closed down, well, I don't know. That'll be that.
[01:13:19] Unknown:
We'll see. Although, we're gonna be good. I think I don't have my glasses. Give me a sec here. Where did it go? Counterparty.com.
[01:13:25] Unknown:
Yeah. That's Yeah. That's it. I love this counterparty. That's a really cool name. But is it the counterparty? Because counterparty is actually a protocol that I like. So I just wanna make sure it's an event itself, the counterparty event. But is it thecounterparty.com or Correct. Yeah. The. Doctor. No. Thecounterparty.com. Doctor. Okay. Sorry. I got to edit that. That's what I like about these. Doctor. Because, yeah, I mean, the guys that the guys that actual counterparty, the protocol,
[01:13:50] Unknown:
hopefully, will be able to make it there. So cool. Okay. And so then let's so everybody can go there. They can go to, they can go to your website, tatianamorose.com,
[01:14:00] Unknown:
and then also following you on Twitter. Is there other places you want people to check you out? Like, are you on Instagram? Yeah. They can go to queen tatiana. I'm on, you know, like, YouTube, I guess. They can whatever. I mean, people know where to look for people. Right? I'm on everything. And if people wanna kinda hear my backstory, I'll probably start selling some Tatiana coins sometime too soon, at least just as a dispenser for people who wanna participate, at, tatianaemrose.com.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
Awesome. Well, congrats and I hope this goes well and, you know, hit me like tag me and stuff and I'll repost anything you're doing. And, yeah, we'll talk about some proof of love things going forward. I'd like to, you know, celebrate. We'll talk about it offline and then the the viewers today, they can they can join us too. Because I think that the nice thing about spaces is that,
[01:14:44] Unknown:
like, talking about relationships is definitely a group thing. So I think getting other people's opinions is is gonna really add a lot to it. So it'll be fun for sure. I think so too. It'll be great. And, any final words for the audience with, you know, life, love, Bitcoin? Stay peaceful, guys. Try and stay positive. Be nice to people. Try not to be a jerk. I'm also sometimes a jerk and cranky and stuff and, like, I'm trying my way. So just try and be gracious toward people and and extend, like, some some grace to them. I think that's really a thing because a lot of people are going nuts right now and I try and be tolerant and loving toward even the annoying ones, and we've got a lot of
[01:15:25] Unknown:
them. I know. I agree. I'm in the same boat. So I know I feel like more love and more kindness out there and definitely more self love and self kindness, too, because it's not easy out there for most of us. So, little little kindness goes a long way.
[01:15:40] Unknown:
Alright. Well, thank you again, Tatiana, for tuning in and sharing your story. Out. Yay. Keep the hope alive. Remember, bring peace back into Bitcoin. Yes. So Love it.
[01:15:50] Unknown:
Very cool. Thanks very much for having me on today. You're welcome. Alright, everybody. Thanks so much. Peace, love, and warm aloha. And, thanks again, Tati.
Introduction and Guest Overview
Tatiana's Journey into Bitcoin and Music
The Power of Music in Social Change
Challenges for Artists in the Digital Age
Tatiana Coin and the Artist Economy
Free Ross: A Fight Against Injustice
The Role of Artists in Advocacy and Change
Personal Growth and Self-Care for Creatives
Finding Meaning and Community in Uncertain Times
