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The episode discusses the importance of referrals in business and how to systemize and automate the process to generate more referrals. The conversation emphasizes the value of trust, networking, and creating strong relationships with referral partners. Strategies for building referral networks and the impact of referrals on business growth are highlighted throughout the episode.
https://ravingreferrals.com/brandonbarnum/
https://matthewrouse.com
(00:00:18) Introduction to the episode with host Matt Rouse and guest Brandon Farnham, CEO of hoa.com.
(00:01:00) Discussion on the sources of referrals and the lack of a consistent referral plan in businesses.
(00:02:03) Importance of investing in the referral process and the higher likelihood of hiring from referrals.
(00:03:47) Accelerating the trust process through referrals and the impact of trust on business relationships.
(00:05:17) Creating trust through referral partnerships and cross-marketing strategies.
(00:07:03) Differentiating networking from creating a referral partner blueprint for effective partnerships.
(00:08:51) Importance of documenting plans for accountability and commitment in referral partnerships.
(00:11:27) Marketing ethics and the importance of serving people rather than coercing them in business interactions.
https://serve.podhome.fm/digital-marketing-masters
[00:00:01]
Narrator AI:
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Masters podcast with your host, Matt Rouse.
[00:00:13] Matt Rouse:
Everybody, and welcome to Digital Marketing Masters. I'm your host, Matt Rouse. Today, my guest is Brandon Barnum. He is the CEO of hoa.com and the author of Raving Referrals. Brandon, how are you? I am blessed beyond belief, brother. Thanks for having me. Hey. You know, we had a we had a good chat, and I really I really like the hoa.com platform and that and that whole idea around referrals. And one of the things that I think struck me is that pretty much every person you talk to, no matter what industry they're in, says they want more referrals, or they a lot of times they'll say leads, but, you know, part of leads is referrals.
But nobody seems to have a good plan to consistently get referrals. So I guess my first question is, how do you get more referrals?
[00:01:04] Brandon Barnum:
Yeah. Well, so there's 3 primary sources of referrals. 1, your past clients. 2, your social sphere, everybody that you know that's in your phone or on Facebook or whatever your social media channel of choice is. And then 3, other business owners and professionals that are serving your clients every day. Really, raving referrals helps you tap into all 3, but, you know, be the BNI founder, Ivan Meisner, he says 97% of businesses rely on referrals, yet only 3% have a system for referrals. And so it's a common breakdown. People just don't know what to do. So that's why at hoa.com, we help them systemize and automate that. And with the raving referral system, we help teach and train people how to get more referrals consistently.
[00:01:48] Matt Rouse:
Nice. I really like the idea of systemizing referrals and lead generation, and that's a really big part of our business. You know, we run, you know, marketing for for different types of businesses and stuff. We have our own ecommerce store as well now. And, man, it is it is kind of tough in the long run because you have so many things going on. Right? You know, you're wearing your 50 hats as the business owner. A lot of times, you know, having, like, writing down a system for something is difficult,
[00:02:19] Brandon Barnum:
especially when it comes to referrals because most people have no idea where their referrals come from in the first place. And that's absolutely true. And, you know, it's so interesting because when you stop and, like, you know, here we are at the beginning of 2024. If you look at your business in 2020 3 and go, okay, where did that business all come from? If you do an analysis and kind of audit your clients for the past year, what you're going to find is a lot of them came as a referral. And yet I ask people all the time, how much are you how much time, energy, and money are you investing in your referral process?
And people are just looking at me like a deer in headlights. They're like, what do you mean? Right? And so here you've got the number one driver
[00:03:00] Brandon Barnum:
for your business and yet people are spending money on cold advertising
[00:03:01] Brandon Barnum:
to bring in suspects rather than getting referred clients, which are 400% more likely to hire you when they come from somebody that already knows, likes, and trusts you.
[00:03:12] Matt Rouse:
It's true. And I actually read some data, and this was several years ago now, and it's probably still true to this day is that people who are referred to you, not only are they more likely to do business with you, but they, on average, will spend 50% more than someone who came from cold outreach or advertising.
[00:03:33] Brandon Barnum:
Absolutely. They're 16% more profitable overall because, like, to your point, they spend more money with you. They stay with you longer. They buy more often, and they refer other people to you more frequently. So it's all about trust. It's really how do you accelerate the trust process. And what happens in a referral is there's a trust transfer. Somebody that they already know, like, and trust says, hey, you can trust Matt. Check it out. He's a good dude. He's gonna take care of you. They don't have to do that vetting. It's already been done for them.
[00:04:06] Matt Rouse:
That's right. And I think that there's there's a good point there, especially in the kind of the rise of AI that we've seen happening in the last, you know, year, year and a half. Trust is gonna become absolutely vital in That's right. In almost every process. And you hear everybody talking all the time about, you know, authenticity and and things like that. And I think that authenticity is is a, a distant cousin of trust. Right? I think there's, I mean, there's different people argue about the whole authenticity thing about, you know, how much of yourself should you be putting out there kind of thing. Yeah. But I think the real answer is you should be trying to figure out, how can I show people that they can trust me, not how to show people, like, how to trick people into trusting you? Right? That's completely different thing. But I think trust is the number one factor. And what is is there, like, a way that you can kind of encourage or I guess, you know, generate more kind of trust?
[00:05:17] Brandon Barnum:
Manufacture trust. Yeah. Steven or MR Covey wrote a great book called The Speed of Trust. And Mhmm. What we teach I actually had a platform over a decade ago called Trusted Team. And the whole concept was, look, we're all serving the same clients. Why aren't we building our businesses together? So that's really what we help systematize and automate at h o a dot com is creating your referral partnerships and then cross marketing. Comarketing is what we call it. But how do you really create strong relationships with people that are going to recommend you and that's what manufacturers the trust. When somebody else is singing your praises and they're your ambassador or your champion for your brand, then those prospects come to you. And I teach that lead is a 4 letter word. I don't wanna deal with a lead because I have to build that trust from the ground up. That person is suspicious of me if they just found me online.
Whereas if they're referred by somebody they trust, that trust factor is high from the get go.
[00:06:19] Matt Rouse:
There's also a really a much longer process in nurturing a lead to trust you than somebody who already has that trust factor from someone else. Absolutely. I mean, the other day, we were just talking to someone. She works in the coaching space. And, like, one of her kind of funnels of, you know, as they're funneling people through the system to generate trust kind of thing, well, it broke somewhere in the middle, and they don't know when it broke. Right? So how many people were they trying to encourage to trust them and have them find that, you know, step 6 of their 10 step trust process goes to a dead page, which kills all the trust that they have in the first place. Yeah. You you mentioned, like, BNI and and and Mizer and stuff. Is this more of an idea of networking or is it something, you know, a little broader
[00:07:13] Brandon Barnum:
than that? Way beyond networking. Networking is how you get connected to people. Right? How do you meet somebody that could be either a client or a referral partner? What I'm really talking about, we teach it in the book. So, you know, my book is called rating referrals. Shameless self promotion there. But what we teach is what a process called the referral partner blueprint. And what we find is that a lot of people go to networking events, Chamber of Commerce, let's BNI, they go and they meet amazing people. Maybe they even sit down and do a 1 on 1, which is what you need to do to build a partnership. You've gotta meet that person. You've gotta build that relationship.
Well, they'll have a coffee meeting or a lunch meeting or what have you, but they don't have a plan, and so, therefore, it doesn't really go anywhere. And what we do is we help you walk you through the referral partner blueprint, and you can download it for free athoa.com/blueprint. And what it does is there's 21 different cross promotion campaigns and co marketing campaigns. Most of them are totally free, but what it what you do is you sit down with your prospective partner. You take a look at the 21 different ways that you can cross market and build your businesses together, and then you agree to what each partner is going to do for the other. Now you've got a plan of action where people are actually in action, helping drive results for the other. I really like the idea of documenting your plans
[00:08:36] Matt Rouse:
because it's really hard to go back then in the future and say, oh, I did my part because here's the plan that we had laid out from maybe more of accountability standpoint
[00:08:46] Brandon Barnum:
as well. Having it written down, you've promised yourself you're gonna do it kinda thing. Yeah. Right? It starts with an agreement. Agreement leads to commitment, and then there's action and follow through. Right? Or accountability if there's no action and follow through. But it all starts with having that plan. You know, the Bible says without a vision, people perish, and it's kind of the same in your referral partnerships. When you have an actual written plan and you can go through the 21 and go, you know what? I'm gonna do 2 of these. I'm gonna give you testimonials. I'm gonna do a video testimonial for you. I'm gonna testimonial for you. I'm gonna bring you on to my podcast. That's one of the 21 co marketing campaigns. And so when you have a plan of action and the other person has agreed to do something and made that commitment, they are much more likely to actually take action and generate the results.
[00:09:33] Matt Rouse:
Absolutely. That's right everybody listening. Recommend this podcast to someone you know and they will trust you more and sit down. I think I I heard something actually really good a long time ago and it was not in like a business podcast or anything like that it was a guy who was a land scaper, and everybody always wondered why he would drive around the neighborhood, and he would, like, clean up the sidewalks around people's houses that he didn't park for. And and everybody will go, why are you wasting your time doing all clean up all this stuff on people's sidewalks for free? And he says, well, I like to I like to show people that I could help them by helping them. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. I mean, it's it's clever. Right? It's clever. He just goes around, and people see his truck, and see him cleaning up sidewalks,
[00:10:18] Brandon Barnum:
and and they go, can you mow my lawn? You know? Can you trim my trees? I got tons of business doing that. It's not gonna convert to every industry, obviously. No. But what you're talking about is something we we have 7 different laws of raving referrals, and one of them is give more. Right? And just be a giver. It'd be intentional about being generous rather than stingy. How can you impact others? We teach serve, don't sell. Right? So many people get hung up with, oh, I've gotta go sell somebody on something. And that that sort of intimates that there's gonna be a manipulation or a coercion that's taking place, and that's not the spirit, the energy, the vibration you wanna give up. It's really just like you said about the landscaper. Who can you serve? And when you're famous for serving people, you'll get all the business you could ever want.
[00:11:05] Matt Rouse:
A lot of people think that, you know, marketing in general is about coercion and it absolutely isn't. Marketing is about how do I connect the people who need something with the people who create that thing. Like, I don't trick somebody into needing a defense attorney. I mean, if you need 1, I wanna connect you with the guy that I know is the best guy because he's gonna be the one who does the best job. Yeah. He pays us to do that. I'm not out there saying everybody needs this, get it, you know, kind of like trick trick people into getting it or, you know, it's not some kind of a scheme. Marketing is not is not about scheming. And a lot of times you people get a bad rap in some industries, I think, for marketing. Like, if you look at car dealers and industries, I think, for marketing. Like, if you look at car dealers and real estate agents and insurance people, And the reason is there's a few, you know, spammers and scammers out there, of course. Sure. They kinda make a bad rap for all the people who are just trying to help serve the people who need the help. No. It's so true. I was in the mortgage business for 12 years. That's how I got started. That's how I I learned this thing called raving referrals
[00:12:11] Brandon Barnum:
because I was a single dad. I'd gotten custody of my 2 year old son. I was in my twenties. I was making $20,000 a year, and then I got in the mortgage business, had somebody mentor me in what I now call raving referrals, and was able to 10 x my income in 18 months from 20 k to 200 k. And so that's why I'm on this mission to help other people. But you're absolutely right. It's all about serving people and helping solve the issues. Like, when when we talk about referral partnerships, there are people out there that are serving clients and customers that need your services. You are the answer to their prayers, quite frankly, because they got clients coming to them saying, hey, I need a good defense attorney. Who do you recommend?
Right? Absolutely. If your client is the one that is recommended in that situation, it's a solution for the end customer. It's a solution for the business partner. And what we teach is to package up and give the gift of you. Right? How do you make yourself easy to refer so that people want to do business with you, they find you, and you're you're building that trust right from the get go. And you need to make sure that you're easy for your partners that we discuss
[00:13:28] Matt Rouse:
that we discuss in the reaming referrals book, but it's all about helping people help people. You know that idea of the goose that lays the golden eggs? A really good example of this is we're working with a gal several years ago, and she did clinical hypnosis to help people quit smoking. And that was, like, her specific thing. She had a really good success rate, you know, regardless of what people think of whether it works or not. It helped people quit smoking. I mean, it's good enough for me. Okay? And the other thing is it's kind of like a like a prescription drug free method, and there's some people who can't take drugs for a number of reasons. Right? They can't take anti smoking drugs. Maybe they're allergic to them. Maybe it's side effects, whatever. Anyway, that's the process of this. We found out through some of our research that people who are oral surgeons have to have the client quit smoking before they get surgery.
Because they won't do the surgery if somebody's still smoking because the patient won't get better. Right. Makes sense. And there's some risk of infection or something. I don't know the ins and outs of that part of it. But all we gotta do is get these 2 people together. We have a referral kit kind of thing. You know, we were doing just like a paper that they give somebody like a referral sheet that they can print off at the office and Yep. A one sheet? Oh, yeah. That like a little one sheet. And the people who work at the oral surgeon's office, they don't expect a kickback or anything. What they want is they want the patient to quit smoking. Because if the patient doesn't quit smoking, they can't do the surgery, so they can't make money. And so this is the batch made in heaven. Right? Between the 2 of these these cribs.
And they both couldn't be happier. And so there's no, like, nobody's trying to trick anyone here or do anything, like, weird. All they are is 2 people who are gonna help each other out so because they both got a common goal. And that's what I think referrals are all about personally is how can we find that common space, that common goal that gets both of us where we wanna go? Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. My mentor taught me 1 +1equals11.
[00:15:32] Brandon Barnum:
Right? So when we come together, we partner, we cross promote each other, we're really creating leverage for one another. You and I are doing it right now. Right? You're bringing me on to your show. Hopefully, I'm adding a lot of value to the listeners. You're thrilled with the outcome. I'm gonna share it with my community on my side, and so it helps each of us. Right? It's a symbiotic synergistic relationship that helps everyone win together. And that's really the point of it. So when you can identify for your business who is serving the people that I wanna serve, Who is helping them through challenges that I can help solve? And when you can connect with those people, those perfect partners, it can lead a tremendous difference to your business. 100%. And there's that network effect. The number of connections
[00:16:21] Matt Rouse:
is higher than the amount of people in the network.
[00:16:24] Brandon Barnum:
So Yeah. Absolutely. Well and one of the things that's interesting, you know, we talked about BNI earlier. I'm a huge fan of a BNI, a LATIF, Chambers of Commerce because you're meeting great people that are committed to networking and building their business. And what we teach people is to create your own alliance. Even if you're just meeting once a month, you could invite them into your office, into a coffee shop or restaurant where you gather together breakfast, lunch, or happy hour, whatever works for you, and you create your own trusted team. You start with a core group. Right? And you say, hey. Listen. I'm going to create a trusted team of professionals that I wanna recommend to all of my clients and customers, and, you know, I'm consider considering adding you into that group. Is that something that you would be interested in and that you would commit to participating in? If they say yes, now you've got your core team. Now it really depends on what your industry is.
But if you think about what are the services that your clients and customers ask you for, who do you refer business to? Number 1, who is already referring business to you? Number 2. And then who do you know, like and trust in the industry that you maybe have known for 5, 10, 20 years, but you've never approached them to formalize their referral partnership, they'll be thrilled because everybody is looking for more business. Now you meet that group once a month, for example, and you do that 12 times a year. It's super easy. You can do it and have a lot of fun. You can do it at Topgolf or wine tasting, whatever you're into, but creating that consistency. And now you've got the microphone. You're the leader of the group, so you control who's coming in. It's a great way to build your network and get committed people that will promote you for years to come. Absolutely.
[00:18:13] Matt Rouse:
There's something about that. You know, it's funny you mentioned Topgolf because I started a group like that that is still going that meets at a Topgolf. What happened was we were in a, like, a co working space. We had just opened up. It was like a nonprofit co working space, and there was basically no events whatsoever. Yeah. So what we did is we called it 3rds day. It's like 3rd Thursday combined. So everybody knows that it's on the 3rd Thursday. Yeah. And the 3rd Thursday, we would meet for happy hour kind of thing, except we had it at the co working space. Mark. But at COVID time, co work space shut down, so we ended up moving it eventually to Topgolf. But I moved to Canada, and we were having it in Oregon at the time. Oh. So I had one of the guys that I know taken over, and they still run it to this day. That same group of people, like, the original core group of people still meet there, plus they have 20 or 30 more people. It's this kind of a big event now in that area for businesses.
[00:19:11] Brandon Barnum:
That's been running now for almost 5 years. So it's amazing what you can start when you just kinda get the ball rolling. Yeah. And the beauty of starting an event like that and being the leader, and you get that core team of people that are committed to doing it with you so that you're not you don't want it to be a heavy lift and have to do a lot of work. But the beauty is you're elevating your expert status, right? Everybody knows that you're the king of the group or the leader, and they want to get to know you because they know that you have influence over others. So there's a ton to be said about creating that. We're we're just launching a Champions Alliance group here in Phoenix, Arizona where I live, and we're kicking it off next Thursday, and it's a high net worth individuals. Everybody there is either 7 or 8 figures in their home services business and we're bringing these guys together. And I tell you what, they're so excited to meet one another because they wouldn't have that nexus, that connection otherwise.
[00:20:07] Matt Rouse:
And we get the credibility of bringing those people together and helping everybody do more business. That's great to have that kind of, you know, where you can get kind of a core group of of people who have similar industries together. Another one I really like, like I, I call it the 2 person mastermind. It's just you and someone else in your industry who are not necessarily direct competition. That's right. And you can talk to each other and you can, you know, share information, share stories, you know, that kind of stuff. What's working for you? What's working for them? It's a great way to get a leg up on, you know, your kind of local competition. If you're meeting with somebody like I have I have a networking group like that that I meet with somebody in Florida. I have another one that I meet with a guy who's got an agency out in LA. My agency is based out of Arizona. We're not really competing for the same clients. We just chat. We talk. We've been doing it for years. Smart.
And absolutely invaluable stuff. Right? Brannon, we could talk all day, but I think I think it's probably best if people get a chance to kind of maybe learn more about raving referrals from you. Sure. If somebody wants to get more information about, you know, how they can generate some more referrals, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah. You can go to ravingreferrals.com
[00:21:22] Brandon Barnum:
and you can check out the book. There's an online course you can take. It's super fast and easy. I recommend everybody start with the referral score quiz at referralscorequiz.com. That's 10 questions you'll self assess, and it'll be eye opening for you because there'll be some of those 10 best practices that aren't even on your radar. And when you see it, you'll be like, oh my gosh. I've been missing this all this time, and it'll make a huge difference. And and you can find all those resources at brandonbarnum.com
[00:21:50] Matt Rouse:
as well. We will put those links in the show notes. Brandon, thank you so much for being on the show today, and have yourself a wonderful day. My pleasure, Matt. Thanks for having me. Take care.
[00:22:00] Brandon Barnum:
This voice over used to be done by a human, but now it is synthetic. Oh la la. If you want to know if your job or business is safe from disruption read Matt's new book Will AI Take My Job? Predictions about AI in corporations, small business and the workplace. Available now on Amazon. Trust me, it'll be worth it. Remember to tap like, subscribe, and follow to never miss a show.
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Masters podcast with your host, Matt Rouse.
[00:00:13] Matt Rouse:
Everybody, and welcome to Digital Marketing Masters. I'm your host, Matt Rouse. Today, my guest is Brandon Barnum. He is the CEO of hoa.com and the author of Raving Referrals. Brandon, how are you? I am blessed beyond belief, brother. Thanks for having me. Hey. You know, we had a we had a good chat, and I really I really like the hoa.com platform and that and that whole idea around referrals. And one of the things that I think struck me is that pretty much every person you talk to, no matter what industry they're in, says they want more referrals, or they a lot of times they'll say leads, but, you know, part of leads is referrals.
But nobody seems to have a good plan to consistently get referrals. So I guess my first question is, how do you get more referrals?
[00:01:04] Brandon Barnum:
Yeah. Well, so there's 3 primary sources of referrals. 1, your past clients. 2, your social sphere, everybody that you know that's in your phone or on Facebook or whatever your social media channel of choice is. And then 3, other business owners and professionals that are serving your clients every day. Really, raving referrals helps you tap into all 3, but, you know, be the BNI founder, Ivan Meisner, he says 97% of businesses rely on referrals, yet only 3% have a system for referrals. And so it's a common breakdown. People just don't know what to do. So that's why at hoa.com, we help them systemize and automate that. And with the raving referral system, we help teach and train people how to get more referrals consistently.
[00:01:48] Matt Rouse:
Nice. I really like the idea of systemizing referrals and lead generation, and that's a really big part of our business. You know, we run, you know, marketing for for different types of businesses and stuff. We have our own ecommerce store as well now. And, man, it is it is kind of tough in the long run because you have so many things going on. Right? You know, you're wearing your 50 hats as the business owner. A lot of times, you know, having, like, writing down a system for something is difficult,
[00:02:19] Brandon Barnum:
especially when it comes to referrals because most people have no idea where their referrals come from in the first place. And that's absolutely true. And, you know, it's so interesting because when you stop and, like, you know, here we are at the beginning of 2024. If you look at your business in 2020 3 and go, okay, where did that business all come from? If you do an analysis and kind of audit your clients for the past year, what you're going to find is a lot of them came as a referral. And yet I ask people all the time, how much are you how much time, energy, and money are you investing in your referral process?
And people are just looking at me like a deer in headlights. They're like, what do you mean? Right? And so here you've got the number one driver
[00:03:00] Brandon Barnum:
for your business and yet people are spending money on cold advertising
[00:03:01] Brandon Barnum:
to bring in suspects rather than getting referred clients, which are 400% more likely to hire you when they come from somebody that already knows, likes, and trusts you.
[00:03:12] Matt Rouse:
It's true. And I actually read some data, and this was several years ago now, and it's probably still true to this day is that people who are referred to you, not only are they more likely to do business with you, but they, on average, will spend 50% more than someone who came from cold outreach or advertising.
[00:03:33] Brandon Barnum:
Absolutely. They're 16% more profitable overall because, like, to your point, they spend more money with you. They stay with you longer. They buy more often, and they refer other people to you more frequently. So it's all about trust. It's really how do you accelerate the trust process. And what happens in a referral is there's a trust transfer. Somebody that they already know, like, and trust says, hey, you can trust Matt. Check it out. He's a good dude. He's gonna take care of you. They don't have to do that vetting. It's already been done for them.
[00:04:06] Matt Rouse:
That's right. And I think that there's there's a good point there, especially in the kind of the rise of AI that we've seen happening in the last, you know, year, year and a half. Trust is gonna become absolutely vital in That's right. In almost every process. And you hear everybody talking all the time about, you know, authenticity and and things like that. And I think that authenticity is is a, a distant cousin of trust. Right? I think there's, I mean, there's different people argue about the whole authenticity thing about, you know, how much of yourself should you be putting out there kind of thing. Yeah. But I think the real answer is you should be trying to figure out, how can I show people that they can trust me, not how to show people, like, how to trick people into trusting you? Right? That's completely different thing. But I think trust is the number one factor. And what is is there, like, a way that you can kind of encourage or I guess, you know, generate more kind of trust?
[00:05:17] Brandon Barnum:
Manufacture trust. Yeah. Steven or MR Covey wrote a great book called The Speed of Trust. And Mhmm. What we teach I actually had a platform over a decade ago called Trusted Team. And the whole concept was, look, we're all serving the same clients. Why aren't we building our businesses together? So that's really what we help systematize and automate at h o a dot com is creating your referral partnerships and then cross marketing. Comarketing is what we call it. But how do you really create strong relationships with people that are going to recommend you and that's what manufacturers the trust. When somebody else is singing your praises and they're your ambassador or your champion for your brand, then those prospects come to you. And I teach that lead is a 4 letter word. I don't wanna deal with a lead because I have to build that trust from the ground up. That person is suspicious of me if they just found me online.
Whereas if they're referred by somebody they trust, that trust factor is high from the get go.
[00:06:19] Matt Rouse:
There's also a really a much longer process in nurturing a lead to trust you than somebody who already has that trust factor from someone else. Absolutely. I mean, the other day, we were just talking to someone. She works in the coaching space. And, like, one of her kind of funnels of, you know, as they're funneling people through the system to generate trust kind of thing, well, it broke somewhere in the middle, and they don't know when it broke. Right? So how many people were they trying to encourage to trust them and have them find that, you know, step 6 of their 10 step trust process goes to a dead page, which kills all the trust that they have in the first place. Yeah. You you mentioned, like, BNI and and and Mizer and stuff. Is this more of an idea of networking or is it something, you know, a little broader
[00:07:13] Brandon Barnum:
than that? Way beyond networking. Networking is how you get connected to people. Right? How do you meet somebody that could be either a client or a referral partner? What I'm really talking about, we teach it in the book. So, you know, my book is called rating referrals. Shameless self promotion there. But what we teach is what a process called the referral partner blueprint. And what we find is that a lot of people go to networking events, Chamber of Commerce, let's BNI, they go and they meet amazing people. Maybe they even sit down and do a 1 on 1, which is what you need to do to build a partnership. You've gotta meet that person. You've gotta build that relationship.
Well, they'll have a coffee meeting or a lunch meeting or what have you, but they don't have a plan, and so, therefore, it doesn't really go anywhere. And what we do is we help you walk you through the referral partner blueprint, and you can download it for free athoa.com/blueprint. And what it does is there's 21 different cross promotion campaigns and co marketing campaigns. Most of them are totally free, but what it what you do is you sit down with your prospective partner. You take a look at the 21 different ways that you can cross market and build your businesses together, and then you agree to what each partner is going to do for the other. Now you've got a plan of action where people are actually in action, helping drive results for the other. I really like the idea of documenting your plans
[00:08:36] Matt Rouse:
because it's really hard to go back then in the future and say, oh, I did my part because here's the plan that we had laid out from maybe more of accountability standpoint
[00:08:46] Brandon Barnum:
as well. Having it written down, you've promised yourself you're gonna do it kinda thing. Yeah. Right? It starts with an agreement. Agreement leads to commitment, and then there's action and follow through. Right? Or accountability if there's no action and follow through. But it all starts with having that plan. You know, the Bible says without a vision, people perish, and it's kind of the same in your referral partnerships. When you have an actual written plan and you can go through the 21 and go, you know what? I'm gonna do 2 of these. I'm gonna give you testimonials. I'm gonna do a video testimonial for you. I'm gonna testimonial for you. I'm gonna bring you on to my podcast. That's one of the 21 co marketing campaigns. And so when you have a plan of action and the other person has agreed to do something and made that commitment, they are much more likely to actually take action and generate the results.
[00:09:33] Matt Rouse:
Absolutely. That's right everybody listening. Recommend this podcast to someone you know and they will trust you more and sit down. I think I I heard something actually really good a long time ago and it was not in like a business podcast or anything like that it was a guy who was a land scaper, and everybody always wondered why he would drive around the neighborhood, and he would, like, clean up the sidewalks around people's houses that he didn't park for. And and everybody will go, why are you wasting your time doing all clean up all this stuff on people's sidewalks for free? And he says, well, I like to I like to show people that I could help them by helping them. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. I mean, it's it's clever. Right? It's clever. He just goes around, and people see his truck, and see him cleaning up sidewalks,
[00:10:18] Brandon Barnum:
and and they go, can you mow my lawn? You know? Can you trim my trees? I got tons of business doing that. It's not gonna convert to every industry, obviously. No. But what you're talking about is something we we have 7 different laws of raving referrals, and one of them is give more. Right? And just be a giver. It'd be intentional about being generous rather than stingy. How can you impact others? We teach serve, don't sell. Right? So many people get hung up with, oh, I've gotta go sell somebody on something. And that that sort of intimates that there's gonna be a manipulation or a coercion that's taking place, and that's not the spirit, the energy, the vibration you wanna give up. It's really just like you said about the landscaper. Who can you serve? And when you're famous for serving people, you'll get all the business you could ever want.
[00:11:05] Matt Rouse:
A lot of people think that, you know, marketing in general is about coercion and it absolutely isn't. Marketing is about how do I connect the people who need something with the people who create that thing. Like, I don't trick somebody into needing a defense attorney. I mean, if you need 1, I wanna connect you with the guy that I know is the best guy because he's gonna be the one who does the best job. Yeah. He pays us to do that. I'm not out there saying everybody needs this, get it, you know, kind of like trick trick people into getting it or, you know, it's not some kind of a scheme. Marketing is not is not about scheming. And a lot of times you people get a bad rap in some industries, I think, for marketing. Like, if you look at car dealers and industries, I think, for marketing. Like, if you look at car dealers and real estate agents and insurance people, And the reason is there's a few, you know, spammers and scammers out there, of course. Sure. They kinda make a bad rap for all the people who are just trying to help serve the people who need the help. No. It's so true. I was in the mortgage business for 12 years. That's how I got started. That's how I I learned this thing called raving referrals
[00:12:11] Brandon Barnum:
because I was a single dad. I'd gotten custody of my 2 year old son. I was in my twenties. I was making $20,000 a year, and then I got in the mortgage business, had somebody mentor me in what I now call raving referrals, and was able to 10 x my income in 18 months from 20 k to 200 k. And so that's why I'm on this mission to help other people. But you're absolutely right. It's all about serving people and helping solve the issues. Like, when when we talk about referral partnerships, there are people out there that are serving clients and customers that need your services. You are the answer to their prayers, quite frankly, because they got clients coming to them saying, hey, I need a good defense attorney. Who do you recommend?
Right? Absolutely. If your client is the one that is recommended in that situation, it's a solution for the end customer. It's a solution for the business partner. And what we teach is to package up and give the gift of you. Right? How do you make yourself easy to refer so that people want to do business with you, they find you, and you're you're building that trust right from the get go. And you need to make sure that you're easy for your partners that we discuss
[00:13:28] Matt Rouse:
that we discuss in the reaming referrals book, but it's all about helping people help people. You know that idea of the goose that lays the golden eggs? A really good example of this is we're working with a gal several years ago, and she did clinical hypnosis to help people quit smoking. And that was, like, her specific thing. She had a really good success rate, you know, regardless of what people think of whether it works or not. It helped people quit smoking. I mean, it's good enough for me. Okay? And the other thing is it's kind of like a like a prescription drug free method, and there's some people who can't take drugs for a number of reasons. Right? They can't take anti smoking drugs. Maybe they're allergic to them. Maybe it's side effects, whatever. Anyway, that's the process of this. We found out through some of our research that people who are oral surgeons have to have the client quit smoking before they get surgery.
Because they won't do the surgery if somebody's still smoking because the patient won't get better. Right. Makes sense. And there's some risk of infection or something. I don't know the ins and outs of that part of it. But all we gotta do is get these 2 people together. We have a referral kit kind of thing. You know, we were doing just like a paper that they give somebody like a referral sheet that they can print off at the office and Yep. A one sheet? Oh, yeah. That like a little one sheet. And the people who work at the oral surgeon's office, they don't expect a kickback or anything. What they want is they want the patient to quit smoking. Because if the patient doesn't quit smoking, they can't do the surgery, so they can't make money. And so this is the batch made in heaven. Right? Between the 2 of these these cribs.
And they both couldn't be happier. And so there's no, like, nobody's trying to trick anyone here or do anything, like, weird. All they are is 2 people who are gonna help each other out so because they both got a common goal. And that's what I think referrals are all about personally is how can we find that common space, that common goal that gets both of us where we wanna go? Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. My mentor taught me 1 +1equals11.
[00:15:32] Brandon Barnum:
Right? So when we come together, we partner, we cross promote each other, we're really creating leverage for one another. You and I are doing it right now. Right? You're bringing me on to your show. Hopefully, I'm adding a lot of value to the listeners. You're thrilled with the outcome. I'm gonna share it with my community on my side, and so it helps each of us. Right? It's a symbiotic synergistic relationship that helps everyone win together. And that's really the point of it. So when you can identify for your business who is serving the people that I wanna serve, Who is helping them through challenges that I can help solve? And when you can connect with those people, those perfect partners, it can lead a tremendous difference to your business. 100%. And there's that network effect. The number of connections
[00:16:21] Matt Rouse:
is higher than the amount of people in the network.
[00:16:24] Brandon Barnum:
So Yeah. Absolutely. Well and one of the things that's interesting, you know, we talked about BNI earlier. I'm a huge fan of a BNI, a LATIF, Chambers of Commerce because you're meeting great people that are committed to networking and building their business. And what we teach people is to create your own alliance. Even if you're just meeting once a month, you could invite them into your office, into a coffee shop or restaurant where you gather together breakfast, lunch, or happy hour, whatever works for you, and you create your own trusted team. You start with a core group. Right? And you say, hey. Listen. I'm going to create a trusted team of professionals that I wanna recommend to all of my clients and customers, and, you know, I'm consider considering adding you into that group. Is that something that you would be interested in and that you would commit to participating in? If they say yes, now you've got your core team. Now it really depends on what your industry is.
But if you think about what are the services that your clients and customers ask you for, who do you refer business to? Number 1, who is already referring business to you? Number 2. And then who do you know, like and trust in the industry that you maybe have known for 5, 10, 20 years, but you've never approached them to formalize their referral partnership, they'll be thrilled because everybody is looking for more business. Now you meet that group once a month, for example, and you do that 12 times a year. It's super easy. You can do it and have a lot of fun. You can do it at Topgolf or wine tasting, whatever you're into, but creating that consistency. And now you've got the microphone. You're the leader of the group, so you control who's coming in. It's a great way to build your network and get committed people that will promote you for years to come. Absolutely.
[00:18:13] Matt Rouse:
There's something about that. You know, it's funny you mentioned Topgolf because I started a group like that that is still going that meets at a Topgolf. What happened was we were in a, like, a co working space. We had just opened up. It was like a nonprofit co working space, and there was basically no events whatsoever. Yeah. So what we did is we called it 3rds day. It's like 3rd Thursday combined. So everybody knows that it's on the 3rd Thursday. Yeah. And the 3rd Thursday, we would meet for happy hour kind of thing, except we had it at the co working space. Mark. But at COVID time, co work space shut down, so we ended up moving it eventually to Topgolf. But I moved to Canada, and we were having it in Oregon at the time. Oh. So I had one of the guys that I know taken over, and they still run it to this day. That same group of people, like, the original core group of people still meet there, plus they have 20 or 30 more people. It's this kind of a big event now in that area for businesses.
[00:19:11] Brandon Barnum:
That's been running now for almost 5 years. So it's amazing what you can start when you just kinda get the ball rolling. Yeah. And the beauty of starting an event like that and being the leader, and you get that core team of people that are committed to doing it with you so that you're not you don't want it to be a heavy lift and have to do a lot of work. But the beauty is you're elevating your expert status, right? Everybody knows that you're the king of the group or the leader, and they want to get to know you because they know that you have influence over others. So there's a ton to be said about creating that. We're we're just launching a Champions Alliance group here in Phoenix, Arizona where I live, and we're kicking it off next Thursday, and it's a high net worth individuals. Everybody there is either 7 or 8 figures in their home services business and we're bringing these guys together. And I tell you what, they're so excited to meet one another because they wouldn't have that nexus, that connection otherwise.
[00:20:07] Matt Rouse:
And we get the credibility of bringing those people together and helping everybody do more business. That's great to have that kind of, you know, where you can get kind of a core group of of people who have similar industries together. Another one I really like, like I, I call it the 2 person mastermind. It's just you and someone else in your industry who are not necessarily direct competition. That's right. And you can talk to each other and you can, you know, share information, share stories, you know, that kind of stuff. What's working for you? What's working for them? It's a great way to get a leg up on, you know, your kind of local competition. If you're meeting with somebody like I have I have a networking group like that that I meet with somebody in Florida. I have another one that I meet with a guy who's got an agency out in LA. My agency is based out of Arizona. We're not really competing for the same clients. We just chat. We talk. We've been doing it for years. Smart.
And absolutely invaluable stuff. Right? Brannon, we could talk all day, but I think I think it's probably best if people get a chance to kind of maybe learn more about raving referrals from you. Sure. If somebody wants to get more information about, you know, how they can generate some more referrals, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah. You can go to ravingreferrals.com
[00:21:22] Brandon Barnum:
and you can check out the book. There's an online course you can take. It's super fast and easy. I recommend everybody start with the referral score quiz at referralscorequiz.com. That's 10 questions you'll self assess, and it'll be eye opening for you because there'll be some of those 10 best practices that aren't even on your radar. And when you see it, you'll be like, oh my gosh. I've been missing this all this time, and it'll make a huge difference. And and you can find all those resources at brandonbarnum.com
[00:21:50] Matt Rouse:
as well. We will put those links in the show notes. Brandon, thank you so much for being on the show today, and have yourself a wonderful day. My pleasure, Matt. Thanks for having me. Take care.
[00:22:00] Brandon Barnum:
This voice over used to be done by a human, but now it is synthetic. Oh la la. If you want to know if your job or business is safe from disruption read Matt's new book Will AI Take My Job? Predictions about AI in corporations, small business and the workplace. Available now on Amazon. Trust me, it'll be worth it. Remember to tap like, subscribe, and follow to never miss a show.
Introduction to the episode with host Matt Rouse and guest Brandon Farnham, CEO of hoa.com.
Discussion on the sources of referrals and the lack of a consistent referral plan in businesses.
Importance of investing in the referral process and the higher likelihood of hiring from referrals.
Accelerating the trust process through referrals and the impact of trust on business relationships.
Creating trust through referral partnerships and cross-marketing strategies.
Differentiating networking from creating a referral partner blueprint for effective partnerships.
Importance of documenting plans for accountability and commitment in referral partnerships.
Marketing ethics and the importance of serving people rather than coercing them in business interactions.
