Deliberating Dogface Dudes

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• From Driver's Licenses to Starlink: Navigating Modern Challenges
• Red Pill Realities: Debating Social Engineering and Responsibility
• Balancing Liberal Arts and Practical Skills: A Modern Dilemma
• The Evolution of Responsibility: Teaching Kids in a Tech-Driven World
• Navigating Censorship: Future Topics and Content Boundaries

In this episode, we delve into a variety of topics ranging from the evolution of driver's licenses over the years to the challenges faced by today's youth due to a lack of responsibility. We discuss the importance of teaching kids responsibility and the impact of modern technology on our lives, including the benefits of using Starlink for better internet connectivity. The conversation takes an interesting turn as we explore the world of online debates, the history and impact of the red pill community, and the role of social engineering in shaping societal norms. We also touch upon the significance of apprenticeships, the challenges of modern education, and the importance of balancing liberal arts with practical skills. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the potential topics for future episodes and the importance of setting clear boundaries for content to avoid censorship on platforms like YouTube.

(00:00:01) Introduction and Early Memories

(00:00:34) Responsibility and Youth

(00:01:29) Internet Issues and Starlink

(00:03:04) StreamYard and Local Recording

(00:10:35) Podcast Vision and Future Plans

(00:14:22) Debate Culture and Family Dynamics

(00:24:10) Red Pill and Online Communities

(00:39:05) Men's Rights and Societal Changes

(00:50:02) Parenting Philosophies and Authority

(01:00:06) Worldviews and Philosophical Foundations

(01:14:07) Apprenticeships and Merit-Based Systems

(01:27:01) Challenges in Modern Employment

(01:38:03) Censorship and Content Strategy

(01:50:11) Future Episodes and Topics

- Benjamin Balderson

- John Roeland

- allen marcus

https://serve.podhome.fm/deliberatingdogfacedudes

https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/deliberatingdogfacedudes/0-starting-from-zero-ddd

[00:00:01] Benjamin Balderson:

And then at 15,   I think you could get the,   you know,   dawn to dusk license.   Yeah. And that was in general everywhere.   And then 16 is when you got your just normal   plain old plain Jane driver's license.  

[00:00:20] John Roeland:

Yeah.   Yeah. No. We've   these kids nowadays, man, they're fucked up, bro.  

[00:00:29] Benjamin Balderson:

But, I mean, as part of that, that we don't put no responsibility   on them. Yeah.   You know what I'm saying? Like, when you don't allot kids, when you don't   like, this is just something I noticed. Like, when I was   I was 13 when I took over the farm.   Like, my dad, our farm   my dad had invested into sheep   in, like, 1986.   Had taken off my grandma had died.   He took  

[00:01:11] John Roeland:

You froze up.   There you go.   There you go.  

[00:01:30] Benjamin Balderson:

Maybe a peek out jumped up on the fucking   satellite.   They do that to me sometimes. We had a chick for, like,   2 weeks last year, we had a fucking chicken that kept roosting on the satellite,   and and it would take out our signal every time. We're like, you motherfucker.   You have a you you use Starlink. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I do now at what we didn't then, but now we do. How does it work?   Yeah. Fantastic.   Yeah.   Like, dude, night and day.   Night and day. I didn't realize this,   you know, but   I don't realize how much   leniency people give me compared to other people.  

And, like, my fucking Internet flew, and I was like,   I behind my back, I didn't realize this. And it's not like they were talking shit behind my back, but behind   when they would talk, they called it the Balderson lag.   And so all these shows would sit and wait, and apparently, I have such a huge lag. And I'm and I just think I'm have really bad timing, and I'm always really interruptive. I'm like,   fuck. How am I always doing that?  

[00:02:41] John Roeland:

Yeah. No. I remember watching some shows where you you could tell you were having some Internet issues, but it seems to have improved.  

[00:02:48] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.   And and apparently, the picture my picture during the live, you could tell a lot.   It's not great right at the moment, but, typically, it's really good now.   So  

[00:02:59] John Roeland:

I don't know how much you know about StreamYard,   but Quite a bit.   I'm   I'm doing this is the first time I've ever done local recording. So   I don't know if tried that. I don't know if that means it's that you will have access to your own recording   as well,  

[00:03:20] Benjamin Balderson:

But I don't know. I If I hit it somehow   so and I know I've not tried the local recordings.  

[00:03:28] John Roeland:

Yeah. It's like a it basically makes it to where each each,   person on the panel,   I think it means you have access to the recording automatically   or something like that.   I don't know. But I was I'm hoping it doesn't affect,   like, the connection.  

[00:03:47] Benjamin Balderson:

No. It's supposed to make it quite a bit more smooth.   So that way, like, for the recording in and of itself,   it's actually recording from each of our things.   And then that way, it   it smooths it out. Okay.   It's what it's supposed to do. Yeah. I've been using StreamYard a couple years now.  

[00:04:06] John Roeland:

Yeah.  

[00:04:08] Benjamin Balderson:

It's pretty it's pretty excellent.  

[00:04:10] John Roeland:

I saw Jared this weekend.  

[00:04:12] Benjamin Balderson:

Did you? Yeah. I I I I wanted to go see him real bad when he was up at Music and Sky, but our fucking clutch is out.  

[00:04:20] John Roeland:

Yeah.   Yeah. He was saying he was up in your area.  

[00:04:25] Benjamin Balderson:

And then also,   I was worried that,   I don't I,   I don't got nothing good to say about those people.  

[00:04:35] John Roeland:

Yeah. He was kinda saying that   Jared actually told me that,   your name is actually Marcus Allen.   Yeah. Yeah.   That's true. That's classic, man. I I remember watching Marcus Allen when I was, like,   7 years old when the Raiders won the championship. It was, like, what, 83 or something like that.   He was tough, man. He was a badass.  

[00:05:03] allen marcus:

That's what I was named after in part.  

[00:05:06] John Roeland:

Really?   Are your parents from, like, Kansas City or something? No. They're from Minnesota.   I don't know. They just like Marcus Allen.  

[00:05:14] allen marcus:

Just wanted   a big dude, I guess.  

[00:05:21] Benjamin Balderson:

Did not pan out.  

[00:05:23] John Roeland:

You know, he supposedly had a relationship with Nicole Simpson.   Mhmm.   He but he was, like, good friends with OJ, though.   I think OJ passed her around a little bit.  

[00:05:36] Benjamin Balderson:

It's possible. Them them weird, richier people, they really do get into that kind of shit. It's pretty it's very odd.  

[00:05:43] John Roeland:

Yeah. The the rumor is that Khloe Kardashian is actually his OJ's kid.  

[00:05:49] Benjamin Balderson:

So,   my wife, you know, is from a a Richey area. Like, her her people are her family is, like, the poorest of that area,   which is, like, being, you know, like, fucking she's right next to the Neverland Ranch and fucking literally used to watch Ronald Reagan fly over her house to go land at his house and shit like that. So she's from like an ultra rich area,   and   we'd been together, I think,   4 or 5 years.   And one day she hits, she turns and looks at me   and starts telling me about these neighbors of hers that made snuff. And   she's telling me about it all casual. She's like, yeah. Everybody thought it was kinda weird, but, you know, that that's what they did. And I'm like,   what the fuck?  

What the fuck?   Like, I am just losing my shit over here. Like like, my wife's talking about snuff casually. Like, yeah. You know, the neighbors used to do it. Like, Jesus Christ.   What what the fuck?   You know? And and she just thought snuff meant fucking homemade porn.  

[00:06:57] John Roeland:

Oh, man.  

[00:06:59] Benjamin Balderson:

I would lose in my shit. Think of my wife is like I'm like, what is your family into?   Stuff it just like casual? Like, yeah. They do that. We're not really into it, but they do it. Right? What the fuck? No. My family would not be good with the union. Hey,  

[00:07:16] John Roeland:

Alan. Just so you know,   I told Ben, I'm I I did, like, the local recording on StreamYard, so   I don't know what that means exactly.   Probably that you have   maybe you'll have access to a copy of it or something?  

[00:07:33] allen marcus:

Yeah. I see   it mentioning that on the recording tab, private jet comments recording on the right side.  

[00:07:42] Benjamin Balderson:

I think the only time Marcus and I would have access to it though is that if we also have StreamYard, which I'm not through my StreamYard right now, but we do. So if we wanted to do that Mhmm. If you come in through your own StreamYard,   I believe you both have access. I think,   functionally, the biggest difference is   after you hit stop,   you can't immediately leave. You have to wait until this thing gets done   doing everybody's gotta do their uploads.   It's got   so if if yours isn't done uploading, you can't leave. So you gotta wait a minute or 2 minutes or whatever the fuck your computer takes to upload it   individually into   the cloud or whatever the fuck. But I think that everybody that has StreamYard has access to it. I don't I and you can obviously give the the other person a copy, but I think you have to have street, I think.  

You know, I've not used this before, but I've been through some   tutorials with some guys that use a lot more of this, so I know quite a few things on this.  

[00:08:45] John Roeland:

Oh, yeah. I can see right here on the little recording button, it says   yeah. It says shows all 3 of us uploading.   And it says   AM says you have low disk space  

[00:08:58] allen marcus:

on my end. That's what it says for me too.  

[00:09:02] John Roeland:

Is that a problem?  

[00:09:03] allen marcus:

No. I have more space than it's telling me I need to have. That's what I'm checking right now. It's all his midget form that he watches.  

[00:09:10] Benjamin Balderson:

He needs to stop downloading it. All the snuff films.   He's like, yeah, snuff films. The snuff films. Because Christy sends them to me.   Yeah.   But,  

[00:09:22] John Roeland:

like, literally, I thought, like, her family went from being Donna Reed in my head to they know about other people making  

[00:09:31] Benjamin Balderson:

snuff, and they're just like, man, you've ordered. But then they throw the bodies out back on Tuesday. Yeah. Right.   What the fuck is going on right now?   And, Chris, he's just looking at me just completely straight faced, and I'm just like, what the fuck? It's not smut, you know.  

[00:09:50] John Roeland:

That's funny.  

[00:09:53] Benjamin Balderson:

No, they are Donna Reed. She's so Donna Reed that she thought snuff and fucking  

[00:09:58] John Roeland:

homemade porn were the same thing. Where and where where is she from?  

[00:10:03] Benjamin Balderson:

Santa Barbara  

[00:10:05] John Roeland:

County. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know where Solvay is? You're from Cali.  

[00:10:10] Benjamin Balderson:

Yes.   Yeah. She's from Solvay. She's from Solvay. She's from Solvay. She's from Solvay. There. Yeah.  

[00:10:14] John Roeland:

I think I think my parents took us there. Isn't it kind of like an old fashioned town? Danish. Yeah. They have a whole festival  

[00:10:20] Benjamin Balderson:

that they have   a whole, Jared's coming?   No. Jared's coming to Danish Days. Yeah. Jared's gonna go to Danish Days, a whole old fashioned Danish festival. It's it's a lot of fun.   Cool.  

[00:10:36] John Roeland:

So I think,   a good place to start would be   for Ben, for you to just kind of   say tell us how you see this,   how do you see us entering into this world, I guess?  

[00:10:53] Benjamin Balderson:

So I think   we should have probably, like,   a good 4 or 5 shows that we do with the 3 of us. We might bring in, like, a friend that we're comfortable with. Like, you know, like, maybe, like, a Katie or, like, you said, you had some friends.   You know,   you know, because   in order for us to lay the we gotta lay some groundwork here for people to bite onto.   Like, they've gotta understand kinda who   you are   in order to and who I am and who Marcus is. In order for them to   understand whether they stand, you know, especially in the debate world. Are you opposing? Are they on the same side as you? Can you have a debate? If you do, is it gonna be   kind of a dead debate because you're not really against each other on too many issues or you're, you know, you know, like that. All those things need to be understood. So we need to   kinda,   I think, do some kind of,   discussions   between us. And I think,   and it'll also give us a chance to,   get used to, again, having those disagreements   where where it's because we   all respect and like each other.  

And we're not gonna devolve into, you know, calling each other names and shitting on each other and whatnot.   But, like, the other day when we were having the the debate, and definitely if that was me, I'd be in the same position where it's like, you know, when when it was your marriage in question,   like, nobody nobody are you not being married? Nobody cares that you're not married. We obviously,   you do you you know, we're obviously not judging you. But in debate format,   those are the questions that are gonna get asked, and we all 3 gotta be used to that. That, you know, even if it is something that we're personally aligning with in a debate,   technically, you should be able to go up and and debate either side of it and not get that butthurt. You know? Now granted   you granted, you know, we're all passionate about certain things, and that passion doesn't need to be lost. But we all just gotta get used to taking pokes because that's not something that's been happening in the   world that we've been in.  

So taking friendlier pokes at each other that are definitely gonna get hit. Because if your friend already sees it, some dude that's actively trying to   debate you and show that your your view is not a good one, he's definitely poking that same hole, and he's poking at me.   You know? Like   so,   this would give us all 3 a chance to also   look at the things in our world views that we may or may not have,   looked at and, you know because, I mean, how often do you sit down and just debate your worldviews?   Whether it's religion or political or whatever. How often?   Like, you know, we honestly, as a culture, we're taught I I I know John and I were about the same age.  

And,   legitimately,   growing up, I was taught, you do not talk about politics or religion   at the table. Exactly.   And and they and that basically transitioned into everything.   So   nobody talks, you know, since that uncomfortable debate   situation, most people don't have.  

[00:14:22] John Roeland:

So What's funny about that is, when I was a kid so my grandparents are from Holland.   They went through World War 2,   and my dad was born shortly after.   And when we used to go to my grandparents' house in Alameda,   my grandfather would turn the TV off,   and he would basically   make everybody   talk   about politics.   Oh, nice. I totally remember, like, my dad and my uncles, like, having debates and arguing, and, like, my grandfather basically just wouldn't let you just sit there and not have a discussion.   But it's crazy to see how much   like, my uncle,   who's the only one left of my my dad and his 2 brothers,   he   during the whole pandemic,   he basically told me I wasn't invited to his house because   I didn't take the procedure.  

And   I started to explain to him my reasoning, and he's like, no. I don't wanna hear it. I don't wanna hear it.   And I'm like I I started with, like, you're you're a coward.   You know? I was like, you, like, you can't even you have the nerve to tell me that, you know, my opinion and my life choices are wrong, but you won't even sit on the phone   and talk to me about it. Yeah. This shows you how far we've  

[00:15:42] Benjamin Balderson:

fallen. Evolved. Absolutely.   Yeah. It's okay to talk about pop culture and sit in front of a TV   and fucking zone out, but it's not okay to actively talk about things that matter and you should give a shit about. Yeah. Absolutely.  

[00:15:58] John Roeland:

Yeah.   So I think it's I think it's good. I I've been watching these debates, and the more I watch them,   the more I realize that   pretty much anybody can go on these channels. I mean, there's people that go on there totally unprepared, and they're just   exploring   expressing their thoughts.   And there isn't necessarily   a conclusion   or, you know, you know, there's gonna be obviously people saying this person won or that person won, but it doesn't change   the the   variety of perspectives,   and I think that's a good thing.  

[00:16:34] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.   Yeah. No. It's great.   And I feel like and, also, you'll start noticing that   they aren't good.   Like, most of these people can't even put themselves into a hypothetical situation   and then answer from the hypo   hypothetical situation.   They they can't. They don't have the intelligence to do that, which is just fascinating to me. And, actually, was it you, Marcus, that sent me that report? Or did I look that up that the report flat said 90% of people can't answer from a hypothetical situation?  

[00:17:07] allen marcus:

Yeah. That's what I've been looking into. Does that tie into inner voice as well?  

[00:17:12] Benjamin Balderson:

That's exactly what I was have been seeing from it. Like, they can't answer from another so which tells me a 100% that they don't actually have empathy.   They're just people are going, oh, yeah. You're sad. I'm sad. You aren't actually empathizing with their situation because if you can't put yourself into a hypothetical, how the fuck do you understand what that person went through? Right. I see that that Do me  

[00:17:34] allen marcus:

They're mirroring someone's emotions. They're matching the vibration. They're matching Yeah. That's not empathy  

[00:17:39] Benjamin Balderson:

at all. But they're not having any thoughts about the waters versus expressing the feelings. Yep.   Because to truly empathize, you you need to fucking be able to fucking help them in that situation or even maybe help them with emotionally. Maybe, like, you're like, hey. Look. I understand what you're saying, but this is kinda how it fucking works. Right? You can't really get around that.   So, anyways,   I think that, you know, we need about probably about 4 or 5 shows like that   so people get   an idea. And then anybody were potentially gonna go in and, have a conversation or debate   what either way,   they   they have they can background look and know where we're coming from. They can say, oh, hey. You know? Yeah. We'll fit you into this slot. You're kind of a   conservative   blah blah whatever.  

You   know, whatever slot they wanna fit you in,   that's because that's gonna happen whether you want it to be that way or not. They're gonna slot you into something. And when they're built when it you're looking at a debate panel, you can't obviously have too many people of that are like,   you know, you've gotta have it kinda diverse so that way there's a   equal expression of ideas. And then and then at that point, we can weigh and measure   depending on that, but they need equal expression.   You know, anytime you don't. So we they obviously need to be able to tell that about us.   At that point in time, I think   we're gonna kinda come to a natural, and we're gonna just start contacting, I think, some of these things. I think probably our best bet is to try and get into some of these panel ones,   where 1 or 2 of us at the very least can get into it. Start maybe inviting some of these people   as we're talking at the same time over into ours.  

I think   if we're not all 3 actively talking,   I think there's gonna   depending on the subject matter, I think we're there's gonna kinda it's gonna gravitate into its own   natural rhythm anyways. Like in the spiders,   we have a natural kind of way that it just goes. And and it's not like anybody planned it. We can plan as much as we want, but this will end up falling into its   are gonna wanna speak on something, some on others,   you know,   whatever.   And I think all 3 of us just take turns being moderators,   being a moderator, which is its own thing also.  

[00:20:18] John Roeland:

Yeah. I saw one,   one of their,   panels had, like, Andrew Wilson,   some liberal dude,   some some kinda liberal woman, and then this other   woman who I've seen   on,   I've seen her on Paul and Slaves channel,   and she's young. She's, like, 20, and she's kinda, like, she's kinda, like, controversial.   Like, her name's Grace Thorpe. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like Thorpe TV. It's her dad. And there was some kind of weird controversy that They said  

[00:20:54] Benjamin Balderson:

that they accused she, like, make I I'm not sure if this was true or not, but that she and her dad having   a Yeah.  

[00:21:04] John Roeland:

Yeah. That's what I heard. Relationship?   That's what I remember hearing when she had been on the Paul's channel.   And then and then on when I saw her on this debate,   she was basically saying they were saying that she made that up,   like, for for, you know, controversy or whatever. But then they all the people in the panel were like, you know, we we didn't invite your dad here. And she's like, he's here. And then her dad, like, walks in the room.   And, like but anyway, like,   she, right away, just started attacking Andrew Wilson. She wasn't even debating. So   it is it is very informal in some of them.  

Obviously, some of them, like when he's debating Dave Smith   or Bosh,   it's much more structured   Right. As an actual debate. But some of them are just panels where they're like, here's the question.   Here's the open  

[00:21:57] Benjamin Balderson:

conversation style rather than debate.  

[00:21:59] John Roeland:

Exactly.   So Yeah. Yeah. I mean,   I think the the more formal debate, you know, I think I have to build up to that,   depending on the topic.   But, yeah, it's it does feel a little bit more professional,   and, like, these guys have done research, and they have an introductory   statement. And   so, yeah. It's but it's it's cool to see the variety,   and and I do think,   I do think it's a productive way of getting these ideas out there.   Because, again, it's not like,   you know, it's not like final. Like, we're gonna implement this shit now because Andrew Wilson won. It's just he's expressing his idea, his approach, what he would do, and people are listening to that, and they're either gonna be drawn to him or they're gonna be drawn to someone else that they resonate with.   And   one thing I find interesting too is is, like, all the different categories,   where it's like the red pill guys,   the manosphere.  

Like, I don't I have to research all that shit because I don't know what the distinction is between the manosphere   and the red pill. And   so but that's I think that's good too just to see where they draw their dividing lines and how they   somehow are representing something slightly different.  

[00:23:23] allen marcus:

I have news on that, Joe.  

[00:23:26] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. I get it. There's a lot of them.   And they're gonna put us in those groups.  

[00:23:32] allen marcus:

Yeah. I have news about the the red pill debate.   Wanna talk about that later or now. I don't know what our call is at this moment.   Right. So in terms of the red pill on Reddit, Reddit being a place where people can make a forum, make an account, and they can post on a forum. It's thematically divided on different topics. So anyone can   start their own forum under that topic,   and then members sign up for one site, write it. They have an account, and then they could post to different people's   accounts where there's different,   file headers. So everything sort of organized around different topics. And, of course, the topic of red pill   was brought up to   Reddit. So there was a whole TRP, the red pill,   and the history of that is very interesting   in terms of it being a mail space online, but because it's a public   space,   anybody can go in there and disrupt the things.  

So the history of Reddit and discourse on Reddit   is interesting in and of itself as sort of a microcosm   of a time in history   from, like, 2008   to now and the changes it's gone through.   There's a poster on the red pill, a very well known poster   who called himself gay lube oil,   GLO.   So this guy was posting a lot of interesting,   provocative things,   and   the men loved it. The women hate it, maybe. I mean, there's women who enjoyed what he said, and then there's different people from all different spectrums just kind of reacting what he's saying.   Anyway,   the red pill has been   banned from   a topic to be discussed on   Reddit just like the Trump was, the Donald Trump subreddit, the Trump, the the political topics. So to see what is allowed to be spoken about on Reddit versus what has been banned and not allowed   to speak on Reddit   speaks volumes.  

So with that brief history in mind, today was kind of an unusual day where I get a message on Telegram   from a guy. I'm like, well, okay. Is he a crypto bro? He's trying to sell me a scam. Not really sure what's going on.   He sends me some screenshots of a book, and I'm like, well, this is an interesting book kind of,   occult philosophical pictures. Interesting.   And these guys trying to get me on a call. I'm like, oh, okay. Is he trying to is he trying to sell me the book? So, personally, I would give him my credit card number, pick up a book today, whatever. Door to door salesman type thing. Not really sure what's going on. Turns out   his roommate   is GLO. This guy on   Telegram called Vito is messaging me to set me up with a call with this GLO guy, Gay Lou Boyle, the the legendary Reddit poster   who written a book called happened today?  

Yes. Just just an hour ago.   And I'm like What the fuck?   I'm like, tonight is I'm I'm gonna meet with my masculine debate guys tonight.   Like, how did any hoo. How does any of this ever happen? So I'm just   like, what was this the most bizarre thing? So I'm on the call with him on Telegram. He's in Mexico. We talked for about 20 minutes. He's telling me about the book he's been writing his entire life because he's banned from Reddit, and he can't post anywhere. He can't publish that thing anywhere. I'm like, do you even know who I am? Like, how did he even contact?   And we're just ripping off of each other. He's like, that's great. That's great. Stay in contact. So I gave him the spider's PO Box. He said, yes. Send us a copy of the book to the PO Box, and we'll look over it. And we'd like to talk to you again.  



[00:27:10] Benjamin Balderson:

That's fucking wild.   Yeah.  

[00:27:14] John Roeland:

That's fucking wild. He is he he's a red pill guy? He's,  

[00:27:19] allen marcus:

like, the red pill guy. There's Rolo Tomasi,   gay lube oil, GLO,   and maybe a few others. But in terms of, like, the full manuscript  

[00:27:31] John Roeland:

Wow.  

[00:27:32] allen marcus:

So how would he even know to   contact me   to tell me about the book he's published?  

[00:27:39] John Roeland:

Are you the main contact for the spiders?  

[00:27:43] allen marcus:

I'm a contact. He contacted me not through my email, but through my telegram maybe because I'm in his Telegram group, and he could have just went down the list of everybody in the Telegram group to send him a private message.  

[00:27:56] Benjamin Balderson:

Interesting. Yeah. That seems a little extreme. I doubt it. You're gonna have a if the dude's that kind of well known, you're gonna try and have that many private conversations with people. Fuck it. Right. And I was I was like,  

[00:28:10] allen marcus:

is he trying to sell a mastermind group or some coaching or something? Sure. I can listen to his sales pitch for however long that's gonna take. But the call was about him   wanting to promote his book.   I'm like, well, here's our PO box. So if you send us the book, trust and verify, if we get a book in our PO box, then we know it's from you, and   then we take the next step there.  

[00:28:34] John Roeland:

Wow.  

[00:28:35] allen marcus:

Crazy. That's fucking wild. So the universe is aligning itself some way. We we joke about the magic and the mysticism and the synchronicities.   Wow.   Because I'd read this guy's post years years back,   so I was familiar with them.  

[00:28:56] John Roeland:

So give me a little description of of red pill.  

[00:29:00] Benjamin Balderson:

Good. So so Andrew Tate.   Yeah. Red pill is   the the   now there's parts of it I agree with. You're supposed to be you know, it's like the whole alpha male mentality.   The you you should go be out producing. You should be, you know, not a fat lazy slob. You should fucking,   you should be the dominant one in the relationship.   Blah blah blah.   But on the flip side,   red pill guys typically   are and and a lot of times they're aligned with Christianity   in some way   most of the time.   On the downside,   they   are very much and, well, for me, anyways,   I I don't agree that they think that, you know, that dominant, you know, high value man, that's also a red pill term,   based is a red pill term, based as opposed to woke.  

It it's very much the opposition, you know, the 2   opposites.   You go out and have sex with lots of women, and that's okay.   If you're if you're a high value man, you can have multiple   women,   and that's okay.   You can really kinda be a shithead to other people. You know, it's kinda like the 19 eighties jock   versus the fucking crazed out lip tart blue hair.   Yeah. You know?  

[00:30:26] allen marcus:

Sure. And that's kind of where red pill seems to be floating around today. I think the history   of like, a brief history of the red pill probably goes back to   some guy who's sitting around playing computer video games, Morrowinds,   elder scrolls, Morrowind,   wrote a book called The Game   talking about the Venusian   Arts. So these guys   having access to the Internet   made message boards where they could privately talk game in their in their language, the idea of meeting women. So that's where you'd have wing men going out with other men to clubs   to talk to women   to get this exchange of male female dynamics.  

And then from there, because they were such nerds, they'd have statistics about, well, what opening line worked best. So they were kinda doing this experiment thing to say, well,   did a woman respond better to a or b or c? And they tried different pickup lines. They tried different openers, different closers. And then at the end of the night, if they were to bring her home and, you know, seal the deal, close the deal, they would write the report so they'd have those reports. So in that,   aspect, it was really,   male sexual marketplace   value   reasoning,   like, leveling up because of this computer RPG sort of,   skill system that they had developed to say, well, you need to look better. So that's where look looks   today is. And this idea of, well, look your best,   go to the gym, wear clean clothes, wear this deodorant, this perfume, or don't wear it, you know, because it tests those things. So they were very scientifically driven about data.  

And through that, there were hard testing   theories about the sexual marketplace   out on the street, day game versus night game, a grocery store versus bar at night, that type of thing.   And from there, they posted their reports on message boards.   And then when they moved over to more public   open message boards, they got a much larger audience of people, and this is where a lot of people   were beginning to engage in the conversation.   Before that, there was a show on b h one with, the mystery guy who wears a big fuzzy hat.   Remember his show? Neil Neil Strauss published that book about I'm not gay. Being in that community.  

It's all about the peacocking and and wearing the makeup and and looking a certain way to stand out, these types of things.   So with that said,   now when the the Internet has been kind of on lockdown mode since maybe 2016,   and we know the election that happened 2016   and how that turned out in favor of a male candidate and not a female candidate for president. So all the women who were in favor of Hillary and thinking that the tide was gonna turn, and we're going to overthrow the patriarchy in America, and we're gonna let women lead, or we're gonna really get progressive in our politics and things. Well, that's where   I think the red pill in terms of just the idea of, well, how do I talk to women and get a date? Maybe from that, a wife. Maybe.  



[00:33:31] Benjamin Balderson:

But now part of why they call red pills incels   because they could never get late. That that that's that group that wasn't getting late. That's why they started out with the whole incel.  

[00:33:41] allen marcus:

Those are the types of nerds,   geeks, and guys who were   really familiar with computers   and chatting with women in chat rooms, but to get them out and into the real world to have face to face time. To get some stinky finger.  

[00:33:57] John Roeland:

They needed the they needed the data first.  

[00:34:00] allen marcus:

Well, that's that was their comfort level.   So once they could decide that they were ready to go to release the product, you know, the software that they had written when it was ready to go beta test it, then they bring it out. But a lot of them were in the alpha testings where they they had the theory. They had the ideas,   but then they just had the fight or flight response where time to go to the club. Well, no. I'm not ready yet. So then I never   attempted to try to actually talk to women because they've been   bullied probably throughout school   all along. So their experience with women had been difficult, and they wanted to overcome that. So they would   go   to seminars.  

I think this was in a movie with Tom Cruise as a Magnolia or something.   I'd seen that one with Tom Cruise playing this, Venusian artist where he's,   telling men to not put pussy on a pedestal,   and they're pumping up the man.  

[00:34:56] John Roeland:

I don't know if I've ever seen that. It sounds familiar, but  

[00:34:59] allen marcus:

I think it's Magnolia,   to verify that,   The frogs kind of rain down from the sky. It's like a 3 hour   epic art film.  

[00:35:09] Benjamin Balderson:

That was super gay.  

[00:35:11] John Roeland:

It   is. Yep.   Wow. That's interesting.   See, I was kinda thinking that red pill was kind of   republican. I mean, in a way, it is. Right? Like, blue pill was kinda conservative.   I know. I mean Blue pill was liberal.   Sure. Kind of on a basic level, like, especially with the matrix. Right? Like, the blue pill is   you just, you know, keep going along with whatever's happening, and the red pill is we're gonna show you the truth. Well, right. For the red pill in terms of sexual market value, the SMV,  

[00:35:45] allen marcus:

the sexual marketplace   of   men and women, the blue pill would be   women like nice   caring provider men. So treat them with respect. Never say anything that would be controversial in front of them. You know, manage their emotions. Put it on the bus. Hug them. Now you guys Raise it up and work with the goddess. Don't put pussy on a pedestal versus put pussy on a pedestal.  

[00:36:09] Benjamin Balderson:

That's that's red pill and blue pill in the dating market. Yes. Yeah. Yes.  

[00:36:15] John Roeland:

Yeah. Interesting.  

[00:36:17] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.  

[00:36:19] John Roeland:

See, I learned all this stuff from,   Bay Area hip hop   when I was in high school.   Like, just like   I was kind of you know, my my freshman year of high school, I was, you know, kind of the nice guy and trying to be you know? And I noticed all my friends   who were having success with women were all kinda   kind of assholes.   You know?   And then if you listen to, you know, Bay Area hip hop, it's very much   the game it's about the game. Right? It's players, player haters,   and, you know, all these guys are just they don't they make the they make the women pay for sex. You know?   That kinda shit. You know? So   I kinda, like, embodied that or at least tried to for a certain point in my life where I just didn't give a fuck. You know? And I was just gonna go holler at as many chicks as I could, you know? Magnolia. I'll have to check that out. I'm   that's that's Tom Cruise?  



[00:37:15] Benjamin Balderson:

Does he do a really weird cry scene in there?  

[00:37:18] allen marcus:

I think I remember the commercial for it. From 1999, it came out, I think, around Christmas time. Paul Thomas Anderson directs   Tom Cruise, Philip Seymour Hoffman's also in it, Julianne Moore, William c Macy, John c Riley. Yeah. I see a commercial for this. Yeah.  

[00:37:36] John Roeland:

Doesn't seem like a typical Tom Cruise.  

[00:37:39] Benjamin Balderson:

No. It didn't it didn't go it didn't go over well either.  

[00:37:44] allen marcus:

But that's that's in 1999,   and it's already sort of lambasting these pickup artists conventions, these weekend seminars that these guys would go on to, and that's 1999.   That's around the same time the matrix is coming out. So now you see the connection between   the Internet,   the   Yeah. The theology of the matrix, and the red pill, blue pill into   dating and mating strategies.  

[00:38:09] John Roeland:

Okay.   Thank you. Thank you for explaining that because,   yeah, a lot of this whole this world, I'm I'm ignorant too. So  

[00:38:19] Benjamin Balderson:

And then you got the and then you got the the   the   gay,   I'm gonna call them gay adjacent   red pill. That's called MGTOW.  

[00:38:35] John Roeland:

Yeah.  

[00:38:36] Benjamin Balderson:

They're almost gay.   They they haven't let it out yet to themselves, but they're they are almost gay. Yeah.  

[00:38:45] John Roeland:

It's like a reaction to the me too movement. Right? Yeah.  

[00:38:49] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.   Well, reaction to the   so   to me,   that men are tend to be more drawn to conservatism   and women liberalism is just a very natural thing.   And,   so that   the   where the   MGTOW   movement has really   moved up, been able to pick up steam   is because,   like, women have   all the reproductive rights.   They have total   control of the reproductive rights. You don't get to whether you're pro abortion or anti abortion,   it doesn't   matter. Like, she gets to be whatever she wants to be and you get to be second, you know, you get to get informed.   Now   upon the upon you getting informed of what's gonna happen, because you don't really get to say so in this legally.  

So upon you getting informed to whatever her decision is to do with your progeny,   that that point,   if she does or does not wanna be with you,   you get to play the game of   she's definitely gonna take your progeny   and most likely take all of your earnings and everything else. And you may or may not get to see those kids.   So and all those things are done without you having any power or say so in it. So that's it. That that   and then   also that marriage has become a really bad deal. And, like, I like, you know, in our little   tester warm up thing we did last Saturday,   like I said, I I agree it's a bad deal now, but in historically,   once we took out but what that to me, when we took out the no fault divorce,   that's when we should have that that was the bad point.  

Before that, it should have been a bad deal.   But once you switched over to a no fault divorce where it couldn't be, hey, chick. You can't just fucking up and roll out because you know,   you you found some other dick while he was off working and shit. Like, no. You don't get to take his shit then. And and   that should have always been left in there. Yeah. You know? But when they took out the no fault when they made it a no fault divorce,   that took that quality   away   from   it.  

[00:41:19] John Roeland:

Yeah. You know, in my personal experience,   my first wife and my the mother of my first child,   when we so that's the one I went through a divorce with.   I quickly learned that there's this new phenomenon. This is around 2,000 and   8 or so. This new phenomenon of deadbeat moms.   Yep.   And, like, I was, like, the one I mixed twins by myself. No   no nothing. That bitch was worthless. Yeah. I actually ended up having   I actually had full custody of my daughter most of her life.   And at that time, my wife was slowly, like, giving me more and more time with my daughter, and and I have to, you know, look at myself too. Like, I'm unique in that I've always worked with in childcare,   right, a man in childcare,   and I always wanted children,   but didn't necessarily want to be married.  

And,   but with you know, when I had a daughter, I was like, she was my main focus, and I was gonna do whatever I could to give her a good   environment whether or not I was married.   And, yeah, her mom, you know, she's better now,   but for a long time, she just slowly   was less and less in contact with my daughter. And   and I and then I started noticing it not just with me. Like, I started noticing a lot of men who were stepping up   and raising their child, you know, with majority custody,  

[00:42:52] Benjamin Balderson:

and the women were kind of out money. How many times was that the   the the the case before that is my question?  

[00:43:00] John Roeland:

I didn't notice So know that.  

[00:43:03] Benjamin Balderson:

But   you and I are basically from the 1st era of divorce. Right?   Like, before us, the the generate, our parents got divorced, but the parents before that,   that's an that was a few and far between.   Our parents were the first. We are the first generation of divorcee children, basically.   And   so where did that story come from?   Because that story was already being propagated.   Yeah. Yeah. I grew up with that story.   How am I the first fucking generation   of divorcee children,   you know, in mass   as a as a culture.  

[00:43:42] John Roeland:

Yeah.  

[00:43:44] Benjamin Balderson:

But you already you already have this story about how men have been acting this whole time and why all this has to be done this way.   Yeah. Was that shit all horrifying   propaganda?   And was that very first generation   did a bunch of those dads actually want access to those children.   And because   I I, in my life, have experienced like, my ex wife that I went through,   for her, the children were a tool. 100%.   And it was, you act right or you don't see your kids. You do what I want you to do. You show up where I want you to show up. Yeah. You know?   And that was I've got   kids with with you and 2 with, a couple women.  

So with my first when I went not my it was my twins' mom that was the complete deadbeat. You know? She's   she fucking   she was gone by the time they were   a year, I think,   and fucking didn't show back up till they were in high school. She'd show up, like, every couple years for, like, a week. And I wanna be a mom, and I've changed and really caused a bunch of disruptions   and make promises to the kids, and then   you know how it goes. Right?   So   if we're the 1st generation of it and already in your my generation, you know, you and I know a bunch of people, including ourselves,   who single handedly raise kids.  

Was that always a bullshit story?  

[00:45:17] allen marcus:

I I look at the world through film. I studied film and story   story writing, screenwriting, and that sort of thing   through college.   And a lot of the stories, you know, now that I'm having more information about them, yeah, I think that a lot of them   are bullshit, probably propaganda.   There was a movie   with,   comedian   Dick Van Dyke in 1967   called Divorce American Style.   So they started out with this   comedy   about a man and a woman divorcing each other as a comedy in 1967.   But then the the big hitter that we watched in high school, I think, in, like, home economics class maybe, we watched Kramer versus Kramer,   and that's from 1979, the league a legal drama   based off of a novel from 1977.  

So in   my public school education, I remember watching Kramer versus Kramer   to show people what divorce is like. So we're watching a fictional Hollywood movie   to sort of describe what divorce is like.   And it's   it's   it's a drama.   And we're like, okay. So that's what real life is like. It's a Hollywood movie. Okay. Alright.  

[00:46:34] John Roeland:

I remember   my experience was so my parents married   until my dad passed away,   and most of the people that I associated with, their parents were together.   And I had this one friend   who,   I I I thought they had, like, the perfect family,   good looking, they went to church on Sunday,   and then all of a sudden, when he was like I was like a year I'm like a year older than him, his parents divorced, and like, he was living in the house with his dad,   and it just, like, all this shit started happening.   And I I remember being, like, kinda shocked. Like,   I I really hadn't, like,   experienced divorce   in in any, you know,   vicinity to me up until that point.  

But definitely, yeah, I mean, I think that goes along with what you're saying, Ben, is that   I was still in the end of that   era where parents stayed together, and,   and to see it fall apart was was shocking to me. But for me as an adult,   I look at it as an option. Right? Like,   it's like it's not   you know, to our parents,   it wasn't as much of an option.   You know what I mean? Like, for whatever reason, whether it's   religious   or cultural or both.   You know, now   people don't look at marriage the same way,   And I, you know, I do think that that probably has something to do with   programming,   propaganda.  



[00:48:08] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.   100%. And just the no fault divorce again being the the worst culprit of the whole deal where you,   you know, you made it a free for all. People just quit   caring. Like, before that, there was cultural stigmas   that were about to happen. You know? And those cultural stigmas were good.   Like, we act like   our society acts like slipping out from under any kind of judgment is, like, some kind of a thing to be had that you that's a good thing,   and it's not at all.   Like, this that's insane to   to, like,   don't fat shame.   Now you get now you end up with a bunch of horrifyingly   obese people who are in   extraordinary bad health   and in a country that's a welfare state. These people can hardly   move around, take care of themselves. I got a lady who lives just up from me. It takes numerous people to try and hopefully drag her out of her house the once a month that she has to get drugged out so she can get taken to the hospital   and   fixed up enough to go live at her house for a couple weeks again.  

And that's, of course, you know, all paid for by the state. So that means those of us who chose not to live like that have to fund her living like that.   And it's absolutely insane. So   the idea that you can't judge people for acting   completely out of line and in ways that are horrifying for themselves   and for everybody around them because she's nothing but a parasite that's living a miserable life,   which those were her choices that made her happy at one point in time.   We as a society don't ever want to recognize   that. Apparently,   like   as parents, you just gotta let kids do whatever makes them happy.  



[00:49:56] allen marcus:

Like, oh, we don't teach kids right and wrong or good and, you know, how what things are gonna be beneficial or not anymore. Short term happiness. Give them a piece of candy. Give them an iPad so they stop yelling so we can have a peaceful afternoon.   They just wanna get to the end of the day, these parents. They just wanna get to the end of the day, put their kid to bed, and then have a little alone time themselves.  

[00:50:17] Benjamin Balderson:

And then with that,   we expect them at 18 to have some kind of self control over their fucking   indulgences   when they've been nothing but indulged in given those indulgences their whole fucking   life. Like, not given any responsibility.   Kids today act like washing the dishes is a giant ordeal.   I started running the farm when I was 13 years old. My dad had to go into town because   the military didn't take the contract out on sheep. We were gonna go bankrupt. Dad had to go into town and go   get a job at Hub City.   So   I ran the farm during the day and or in the evening and during the day, and he ran he went to Hub City   in the afternoon and worked till midnight or whatever.  

And then went and got drunk for a couple hours, but, you know, that is what it is.  

[00:51:08] John Roeland:

I'll tell you a funny story.   I don't know if you guys have ever heard of Dana Martin.   She   represents   this movement, which is basically seems kind of like she started it on her own called radical unschooling.   So it's not just homeschooling,   it's unschooling. Like, she doesn't send her kids to school.   She but then   in her philosophy,   she promotes   allowing your kids to do what they want, you giving them ultimate respect,   never basically never telling them no.   And she's actually been,   very popular mainstream.   She's been on a lot of TV talk shows   where she's telling these people, yeah, my kids go to bed when they want to, sometimes he goes to bed at 3 in the morning, and these women on this, like, show, they're just like losing their minds.  

Like, how can you do that? Now when I would listen to her, there's a part of her philosophy that I could understand, You know? Yeah. My uncle used to say, a lot of these kids never heard the word, You know,   like my uncle used to say a lot of these kids never heard the word no, you know? And like, no never hurt nobody, you know?   But   so anyway, so this lady, like her daughter, when her daughter was like in middle school, she   decorated her room like a horror scene.   It was like blood, and she had, like she let them get tattoos when they were, like, underage.   She needed   to wear this crazy makeup, and people I'd always seen on Facebook, people would be like,   how can you let your daughter do that? And she'd be like, I trust her, and I trust her to make her own decisions, and she's an individual and all this. And so the other day so   we interviewed her twice on Natural Freedom League, and she's actually on,   Passio's network.  

And,   she   her son, her oldest son, who went through this whole unschooling,   he ended up becoming Christian.   Right?   And so then so then,   she and I remember when we interviewed her, she was, like, what the crazy thing was, she wasn't, like, totally   anti vaccine,   right, which, like, blew my mind. Right? Because it's so interesting how people,   you know, kinda line up with your with your   idea, but then there's this huge gap where you're like, how would you still be okay with, like, giving your kid a a a a DTaP shot or whatever. Right?   So the other day,   she she posts this,   thing on Facebook where she says,   me and my kids just did a   presentation   about   the dangers of porn and how to navigate and avoid porn on the Internet.  

So I never comment on Facebook, I rarely comment. So I said,   I'm really surprised that   you're finally saying no about something because it seems antithetical to what I've heard you say before.   Right. And this woman comments, she goes, well, that might be because   the the family all recently converted to Christianity.   And I said,   oh, maybe so. I said,   I've seen people ask her about the dangers of technology, like letting your kid use an iPad or play video games too much, and she totally downplayed it. Like, you know, when they created the pencil, people were concerned that that was a new tech, bro. Are you serious?   So, bro, after   I commented that, I went back to look at the thread and she blocked me.  

I was like, what? I couldn't I mean, all she had to say was that my blockage changed a little bit,   but, like, she literally blocked me just for saying that. I wasn't being combative,   I just was pointing out that I've never heard you   say   that you would protect your kids from something,  

[00:55:01] Benjamin Balderson:

you know, and And and take away one of their rights, to make a free choice   and   and fuck their own brain up no matter how bad that stupidity that they're getting ready to choose is. Like, go ahead. Let them put their hand in the fire. Right. You're the asshole for stopping them from fucking putting their hand in a fire. Right.  

[00:55:22] John Roeland:

Well, and that was one of the, arguments I had with the,   natural law community, because their whole thing is   the illegitimacy of authority. And I said, well, what about the authority of a parent?   Like, that's in nature and that's needed   because   because and this is my example. If I'm at the park with my 4 year old son   and I have to go pick up my 16 year old daughter   and we have to leave, and my son starts throwing a fit because he doesn't wanna leave,   at some point, I have to pick him up,   kicking and screaming,   Yeah.  

Violate his rights.   Yeah. Put him in the car, buckle him in, and leave.   And   that is that is legitimate   authority in nature,   and all these guys start going, oh, well, you know, that's different. And they try to say that, well, as a parent, you're a steward. Well, look up the definition for steward.   It means you're responsible for the thing.   You're in charge of the thing.   So it's like they always try to,   make it fit   this idea of   the illegitimacy   of authority, you know, specifically in government.   But if you're actually looking at reality,   we are born into a reality where   you need authority. A child would not survive,   you know, and that's pretty it's kinda unique to humans.  

You know? Like, in the animal world, a horse can have a baby, and the baby can almost, like, walk off. Right?  

[00:56:54] Benjamin Balderson:

No.   No.   Not at all.   Fucking.   Oh, yeah. You you know when the fucking babies are fucked up.   Oh, yeah. Parents teach their babies something fierce,   especially,   you know, since we've it would be more noticeable for a lot of people if they had puppies and kittens and actually let them stay with the parents for,   the proper amount of time instead of just punching them out, like, the minimum amount of time that they're told that they can be until they're weaned, and then they give them a house.   It's   at that weaning point is when you start seeing them start developing personalities.   And when they start developing personalities, when you start noticing the interplays between the other animals   and the the babies, and they teach them extreme lessons.  

Like, you watch them babies, they get stupid about something. Oh, yeah. You watch their mom fucking whoop their ass.   Like, you don't do that shit.   And that and they will also   do things like even something like a chicken.   When a rooster finds a good a nice good spot,   he comes over and he   and it's not it's not the the cacao.   He does this   and and all of his little train fucking   hens who stay in the areas. I promise he provides that border. A hen gets out of his border. He goes running over there like   and they even do that with their head. They tilt it to the side and they put their way they go,   like,   yeah. Get back.  

You know?   And you'll push them right back into there, and you absolute you you bet animals teach their babies   how to act. You could find especially, like, you get into primates, things like that. Oh, man. You could see primates whooping a kid's ass, like, you know, grabbing them by the nape of the neck and yanking them along just like, you little son of a bitch.   Like, you know, so it really   in nature, they do. I just think people today are so disconnected from nature   where I've spent a whole life living   completely   immersed in it. You know? So I've gotten to watch those things.  



[00:59:05] John Roeland:

Yep.   And speaking of that, in terms of what we're doing, that that would would be interesting to see if I could get any of the natural law people   on, and maybe maybe talk about   I mean, this is a big one, but talk about objective morality versus   subjective morality. I mean, that could be a that's gonna be fun. That could be a prompt. You know?   Because I know I mean, that's probably   the next step for us is to think about prompts   Yeah. And,   yeah, and, like, you know, different positions that people would take. And   so but that that's one that I know some of those people would come on for sure,   and we could probably have a good conversation.  



[00:59:51] Benjamin Balderson:

And, obviously, in those, at the very least, you're gonna be there.   You know? So, I mean,   like I said, I think this is gonna kinda fall into its own natural positions. I really I really am super happy with where this is. We each all got kind of our own,   specialties. We grew up in vastly different areas.   You know, this it's really just excellent.   I'm so   excited about this, to be honest. And and what happened to Marcus today just   a 100%, like, literally one of the red pill fucking like,   literally up there with Rolo Tomasi, which if you go to look up the actual   tenants of red pill, those were written by Rolo Tomasi.  

Like, that that's these these are the guys that started this shit. It's a very, very small group of guys.  

[01:00:41] allen marcus:

Yep. And then he just calls me on Telegram   from someone else's account   because he's kinda hiding out because he's so shadow banned.  

[01:00:50] Benjamin Balderson:

That is fucking   wild.  

[01:00:53] allen marcus:

This is not happening. I gotta verify this guy, but he's telling me about the book he's writing, pillars of wisdom. He's got it written. He's illustrated all the art himself.   He was from Russia, and he traveled around, and now he's going kinda from city to city.   So once he gets a stable Internet connection, he wants to do more media stuff to promote his book, which   outlines his entire philosophy   that has been developed through forms and message boards online in part, but also through a lot of research and reading   all the fundamental   texts of, like, Platonism and Neoplatonism   and the foundations of Western civilization.  

That's where it starts.  

[01:01:40] Benjamin Balderson:

That's good shit.   Also   so I think, we need to kind of bring out   the talking points that John's talking about in the first five episodes. Basically,   we need to kind of flesh out each of our own personal,   worldview,   you know, politically,   religiously,   or kind and then kind of our dating   views and ideals. At the very least, those are the 3 big subjects that are getting discussed the most.   And so,   and including, I think, the objective and subjective   reality that needs to be fleshed out also.   Those are there's a few things I'm excited to argue, and that's one of them.   Because,   and the   the right wing   view of a cult.  

Like, you guys are not   and that none of them somehow take it back to the that really that all started with the women's   Jewish   Liberation League. The women's,   so it was women Jewish women's feminism.   Yeah. And then so that entire   vein that they're looking at is Kabbalistic.   That's not all of the cult motherfuckers.   You can tell me you're fighting the the the the cabal of guys. I don't care. I don't like them either.   Like  

[01:03:04] John Roeland:

That's one thing I noticed,   listening to Andrew Wilson is   he really there's no   when they're discussing discussing all these issues,   there's no thought about that we've been socially   engineered into these behaviors.   So, for example,   he's talking about   he wants to introduce,   you know, Christian nationalism   and,   you know you know, kind of a back to basics whatever. But it's like,   is it this country is a Christian Christian   nationalist, so how did it get to where it is? And   he doesn't seem to look at that. The people who are in power   are actually studying   how to   make this egalitarian   philosophy   take over because that weakens   men   and weakens the bond between men and women and strengthen their   power.  

Right? So,   I mean, he even he even said today on this one, he started talking about the attack on Israel. No no thought of whether or not that was a false flag. No   no consideration   of that   of social engineering.   And I think that's something that we could really bring in,   you know, to say, like, yes, this stuff is happening, and, yes, it's a problem, but it is the freaking   Christian nationalist people who have been running it. And maybe it's somebody else, but   that's who's in power.   The patriarchy,   once they have that power, they're now studying   how to maintain it.  

And they're introducing   feminism.   They're introducing   welfare and all this shit to weaken the family   because they don't wanna relinquish  

[01:04:50] Benjamin Balderson:

power. Right? They moved from moved from the women's Jewish league   to the   fucking,   Theosophical   Society.   Alice Bailey took it over at the Theosophical Society and become   and became the head of the Lucius Trust,  

[01:05:05] John Roeland:

which became  

[01:05:06] Benjamin Balderson:

the spiritual wing   and one of the heads of the fucking,   you guys know what I'm talking about.   UN.   Yeah. So that was f correct.  

[01:05:19] allen marcus:

The founding of   this political organization   was not an atheism or a nonbelief of spiritual matters.   It was fomented   around   magical currents of occultism.   And then looking at, you know, Nazi Germany, oh, big scary thing. All the history channel in the nineties,   all that they were talking about for that 10 year period   was   occultism   in 3rd Reich Nazi   Germany.  

[01:05:48] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.  

[01:05:50] allen marcus:

So that exists or it doesn't exist.   Well, it's foundational   to where we are today in terms of leading up to, like, Jewish women's occultism,   radical feminism   tying into   satanism and abortion as being   their right, like, their religious   right   that they're protecting?   Or where did that idea come from?  

[01:06:16] John Roeland:

Yeah.   Yeah. I mean, I I'm listening to these debates, and it's like, there's no   conception of that, it seems like.   So I think that's something that we really have to offer all of us. Despite our differences,   we understand   that most of this is social engineering.   Yes. It's a problem.   But who's who's implementing it? You know?   Who's who's really behind it? Do you do you it's like it's like Andrew Wilson thinks   that the Liberals somehow took over just   authentically, like   it's like there's a lot behind that. You know? There's a lot of psychological   engineering,   you know, warfare that went on to to get us to that point.  

So, yeah, I just think that's   something that we could bring into to all of these conversations.  

[01:07:09] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. A 100%.   Love it.   I I I couldn't agree more. I we sideswipe them with that shit.  

[01:07:20] John Roeland:

Yeah.   So I think to tell you guys, I think that I   I've sort of fleshed out, like, my world view a little bit, and   one of the main foundations is Daoism for me   because it's   it's   you know, if you if you read the Dao De Jing, it's like   the best government is one that doesn't   the people don't notice.   You know? And, like, what I see with all of these people is, like, we need more   policies. We need more,   you know, this and that. And sorry. My dogs are going crazy. They're alright. But,   but,   yeah, I the the more I listen I mean, I've been reading the book for years, and the more I listen to it, I see   how it applies   to   government. And I actually have one book right now that it's a guy who he was a Zen   he was a Zen philosopher, but he studied Daoism   as it could apply to the state.  

So,   yeah. I think that's kind of I mean, if I have to label myself,   I think, you know, it's gonna be   Dallas   something.   So   just letting you guys know. I haven't really talked in a video except my wife about that, but   it seems to fit, like, my idea of, like,   less government,   but, like,   still promoting values   and,   you know,   promoting a way of being   that   is, you know, meant to cause less harm, less meddling.   Yeah. You know, less cleverness.   Right?   It's a word they use a lot. You know, the more clever you are, the more problems.  

[01:09:10] Benjamin Balderson:

I'm a I am a heathen   and I and I want to go back to a tribal Society.   I don't   in any way believe that there's any   one size fit all that's gonna   accommodate   the entire plane we live on   in the vast   different   cultures,   landscapes,   all these things that combined in the way people act.   I don't think there's a one size fits all for any of it.   So for myself, I very tribalist   and   inside the tribe,   I actually believe in a class system,   although I don't believe in   a immovable class system. I believe in   a more of   merit based,   but inside that merit based, you know, just like any   construction site, the guy who's the   the the foreman in charge, everybody knows who that guy is, and that guy knows how to do every job on the damn site and,   is extremely competent and skilled and keeps everybody,   going in the direction that they're supposed to be going, and that's a very natural position.  

If to if 10 men   were to go and start to do a project,   one man would emerge as the leader, maybe maybe a share, maybe 2, but most likely, one man would emerge as the leader.   Some of the dudes would just be swinging hammers or shoveling shovels. Some of the dudes would be oh, no. You need to do no. Trust is go like this. You need no.   Alright.   And that's gonna emerge. You   know? That's just the way it is. And,   again, it needs to be more of a merit based,   not like today's,   I believe we're in an extremely,   immobile cast system   because it's all based around finance at this point.  

We live in   a church of prosperity,   you know, so it's   everything's   according to how much money you have,   including the where you sit and what you can do on the morality scales.   So this system's completely broke.   I don't believe in money.   And   inside them tribes, I am at   most likely that tribe's gonna have a   a a yarrow or some,   in some definite leader, and I believe that that same situation   happens in the house and in the farm, in just an individual farm. At the everybody in my house gets a say so on how this place goes. At the end of the day, I make the choice. And that's not me going, I'm pushing my foot down and you're gonna do it my way.   Yeah. I know. But at the end of the day, the choice is on me, and the responsibility   of the choice is on me. When, when shit goes bad, I'm the one who goes out and fixes it. And, yeah, the other guys that help and stuff, I'm the one who takes all the all the credit either way. And so I don't see why that doesn't scale up,   to a tribal situation.  

I think, even in business, the whole reason that we have so many problems with companies is because there's not that person. It now is, oh, well, this is the policy. Well, who wrote the policy? Oh, this group of people. And who's this group of people? Oh, well, they're answering to, just these invest. Who the fuck   answers for what just happened?   Oh, well, nobody.   You know? So   I I I feel like this is just a bad system all around, and I feel like, I'd rather go back to Kings than the shit we got right now,   myself.  

So that's kind of my   system   worldview.   You know, it's more old fashioned in the relationship sense, obviously.  

[01:13:09] allen marcus:

I wrote a few thoughts down in terms of my own world view. I don't know that I could   clarify what it is unless it's been tested through debate. So very kind of open minded in good faith.   But because this is a masculine   focused   improvement   sort of thing to empower men to be   the most   based man they can be, I think that has to go back to merit based. There has to be   merit   that is recognized. So when a man does something good, other men need to recognize it. We need to,   you know, make it a big deal to say, hey, you did a great job. That sort of encouragement really helps.   Now as far as   education,   public school system, figure that out. But once you're once you're 18, you're an adult, well, then   at that point, the private   families,   whoever could set up apprenticeships would probably be the best way forward for men.  

So if someone has a machine shop in their garage   or their whatever skill they have based out of their home based small business,   then, you know, uncles, aunts, family members, maybe that's how it would begin.   You know, your your parents themselves may not have a skill or a business or something.   But for people who do,   they would be open to the sort of merit based things. They will show me your report card. Show me your grades. Give me some letters of recommendation,   and then to take on a few apprentice   over time. And then as it works out,   the the guys will decide, well, do I wanna stay in this apprenticeship after, you know, 6 months, 12 month period? Do I wanna continue with this apprenticeship, or do I wanna try something else? Allow them to kinda figure that out.  

And then from there with the economy, like, the money thing, the debt thing, that's the huge   huge   huge   weight   on young people's shoulder 17, 18, 19.   They don't have money. So they get a credit card.   Now, all of a sudden, boom, that that inflates with the usury   and the ability to pay that off is just impossible for these people. So they just give up and now they're a debt slave, literally a debt slave forever. The biggest purchase that they'll make is probably their car,   which they'll end up living out of because they will never have the credit and the ability to get a mortgage   to move towards purchasing a home.  

So   in this new system to move towards   merit based, having   not a social credit system score like out of China or socialism,   but rather   look at a criminal record and say, you've stayed clean. You're not on the criminal record. Because of that, we're going to grant you   some kind of a mortgage   like   thing   where we give you a house, and then their goal will be to to pay it off. But the economy has to return to the people   to work in our favor. Because of that, people have a home.   They have a shelter. They have a small base business. The local economies will take up. This sort of global economy thing where people think they're gonna sell news of themselves online,   I don't know how long that's gonna last. That's a great experiment. I think the days are tick tick tick tick shortening where that's just not gonna work anymore   for women.  

So because of that,   in this perfect world where   women are going to need to rely on men,   now   they'll be looking for the most based   skilled   men with   the ability to raise a family for them, to repair the home, and to give them a place to stay.   Those simple things   make a big difference. Give people a reason to live. Give them a family if they want 1. Give them skills to   contribute,   and then I think everything else just falls into place.  

[01:17:01] Benjamin Balderson:

Yep.  

[01:17:04] John Roeland:

Nice.  

[01:17:09] Benjamin Balderson:

That's good stuff. We decided name.  

[01:17:15] John Roeland:

The master debaters.  

[01:17:17] Benjamin Balderson:

That's good. I'm pretty sure that's probably taken.  

[01:17:21] John Roeland:

I know. I looked it up. I looked it up on YouTube. I didn't see a channel called that, but   but, yeah, I I I figured it probably probably was.  

[01:17:31] allen marcus:

Something clever,   humorous.  

[01:17:33] Benjamin Balderson:

Like your I did actually like your other one.   The the   The deliberating dudes. The deliberating dudes. I thought that was pretty hilarious. I thought that was pretty clever.  

[01:17:49] John Roeland:

I like warrior philosophers.   I also like philosophical   warriors. Mhmm. Yeah.   Either way.  

[01:18:01] Benjamin Balderson:

I think that that context needs to be in there some I I liked having that context in there somewhere.   For me, you know,   anybody that's heard me give any kind of a presentation,   you understand that I've actually done these things with my hands, and I'm I'm I'm a very   rooted hands on guy. So,   I'm not just out there, you know,   preaching liberal arts. I'm talking about real world things that I do with my hands and that, you know,   will actually impact lives.   I think I I somehow we   when the   Greek   and here and it's funny because we're a Christian nation, and   I I would like to make the case especially against Andrew   that the Christianity is just an invention to control the populace anyways that came down from Greece.  

But,   when we decided colleges   were the, end all, beat all that you needed to have that. Well, the funny thing is is that's liberal arts. You don't learn any of the blue collar stuff. That's specifically  

[01:19:14] allen marcus:

liberal arts. Right. For the elite, for the wealthy.  

[01:19:18] Benjamin Balderson:

Right. So that was the people that are useless. The most of us found them useless. Like, when a kid comes goes to college and he shows up on the job site, like, Jesus Christ, here comes a fucking moron. Yeah. That guy is not gonna know how to tie his own shoes. Yeah. And, also, it's interesting that   such high emphasis got put on the liberal arts for everybody.   Like, everybody needs these just specifically liberal arts, and then we wonder why we have such a feminized   society. Everybody's   told liberal arts are the end all be all.  

[01:19:50] allen marcus:

Well, it's the advertising.   Yeah. It's literal advertising.   I remember, like, 2,003,   4,   I would receive in the mail stacks and stacks from colleges   all across the USA.   How they got my address? I don't know. But they were sending me stuff. I saved a lot of that too. I think I probably got it somewhere in a big box   because that was kind of the end of paper   stuff.   Right. That was a huge change where   they stopped, sending on paper and they went digital.   So there's a lot of records that are lost in that early period to digital,   but having   the, like, the college resumes   and their pamphlets and, like, all these design schools, art schools would send you   expensive   pamphlets,   and you flip through it and it have, like, glossy page,   matte page,   sheer. It would be dye cut in certain areas. It'd be bound with a Wow. Spiral in. Real expensive.  

Real expensive stuff just to show off. There was so much money being thrown at these colleges.   This was at the same time when government   was subsidizing through student loans. So the price of the college education was   just   it was a rocket ship going higher and higher and higher.   And they were getting away with it   because the student loan bubble hadn't quite burst at that point. The housing bubble in 2008   hadn't quite   burst yet. So from, like, 1999 to 2000, 2000 1, the dot com bubble, people were real   excited about new tech jobs and computers and Internet and how that would just make everything a global utopia and so great for everybody.   It was for a while, and now 2024   reality check.  

How did that go?  

[01:21:42] Benjamin Balderson:

Where are we now? We want our stuff back.  

[01:21:47] allen marcus:

No student loan forgiveness for you guys.   Mortgage?   No no forgiveness. No debt jubilee.  

[01:21:55] John Roeland:

Well, the other thing about liberal arts is they don't even they don't even teach it the way that it was   originally meant to be taught. They don't talk about the trivia.   Right.   They you know, liberal arts is like   humanities and fucking sociology and shit, and, like, they never talk about,   you know, grammar logic and and rhetoric, you know. So,   you know, that that's that was the original   7,   you know, 7 you know, and then what,   what is it? Geometry,   arithmetic, geometry,   music, and   astrology,   which they now try to say it's astronomy, but it was astrology initially.   But these are all things that you   tools that you use to explore the world.  

Right?   You know, liberal means well read. You know? And that   you know? But they've they've inverted all of that. Which which I'm not against it, obviously. Right? Or   Because yeah. You're talking about the modern connotation of it.  

[01:22:58] Benjamin Balderson:

Yes. And even in that connotation,   I would   a person needs to learn the blue collar things of life first. And then of that, there's gonna be a certain group that's gonna gravitate. That's something that was, like you said, it was college. Well, these kids were taught a different   set of skills in up until, let's say, 18 to 20, whenever you'd go away to college or trade, you know, to learn to do something. Well,   now our kids are basically they've taken the college,   made it   miniaturized it, you know, made it lesser, And our kids are forced into that scenario.   I am absolutely fine with colleges,   in the liberal arts. Like I said, like, for myself, the biggest one I had to work on was rhetoric.  

And that was, you know, when I met Christie, the thing that I had to really work on because   no matter how good the information is and how much you know, if you can't present that shit,   So   nobody else really gets it. You know?   That was my weak point for sure. And I'm told and again, I I like the warrior philosopher thing, so I think a person does need to have both.   But I think that the emphasis that's been put on the one, like, that's the superior and this other thing is a nothing. And you'll even see it some of these debates.   Destiny, I think, he's one of the ones I've seen him in a debate where he's,   basically trade schools and trade jobs are useless at this point and blah blah. Well, that's funny, dude, because when your fucking fiber optics don't get laid and you ain't got electricity and no water, we'll see how important your fucking computer job is. Yeah. You know? Like,   everything you have and do depends on those people first, dude.  

So, like and and the fact is is   half these kids with these with these fancy degrees are working at fucking McDonald's. That's part of why high school kids can't get McDonald's jobs anymore. There's 3 assholes with degrees hat flipping burgers in there. Well, I saw an article saying that it was retired  

[01:25:05] allen marcus:

women   at over the age of 60 something   who are applying to fast food jobs because they needed to subsidize their income because their retirement want money wasn't enough. So a lot of the jobs are going to retired women   to work   at fast food places.  

[01:25:23] Benjamin Balderson:

Women's lib.  

[01:25:25] John Roeland:

Yeah.   Hey. I came up with a a name that's kind of a play on words, but it kinda fits the   the warrior philosopher.   We could call ourselves   the d battlers.  

[01:25:41] Benjamin Balderson:

Nice.   I do like that.  

[01:25:46] John Roeland:

Maybe hyphenate   the debattlers.   But, anyway, just an idea.  

[01:25:58] Benjamin Balderson:

Because that is most of these people   and Marcus and I were just a a year ago associated with some of them.   It seems like they actually are trying to muddy the water by just doing all that babbling.   They even breaking down words into, you know, rhymes mean shit. Some bitches sound like doctor Seuss. And by the time they're done talking, you're just like, what the fuck's even going on?   You   know?  

[01:26:23] John Roeland:

Well, you know, going back to the the the school   idea, even in Europe,   they at 16, you could choose,   do you wanna go to university, or do you wanna go to a trade school? So Sure. That even still exists   in the world. And I think that that I mean, I've had tons of friends that   they would have dropped out of school and become a mechanic if they had the option,   and instead they had to deal with   the administration   and getting their grades up so they could graduate   for but, you know, they end up becoming general contractors anyway. So  

[01:27:01] Benjamin Balderson:

Well, the other thing that ruined it was, telling all these kids that everything they ever do is worth all this big money. And the fact is if you're getting taught a trade,   it was standard   to not get paid really. You got paid a little bit, but, you know, based off of, like, what you produced,   you didn't get paid very well because you were picking up a trade in at the time. But when you became an actual journeyman craftsman in whatever   field you chose, you could become   competition for the person who just gave you those skills   and and help train you into them. So that was very risky for the person doing it. So they're supposed to receive nothing and gain no benefit at all, but they're supposed to pass on all their skills that you're gonna now use to make money and support without you them getting some kind of recompense.  

But that's the what they tell kids today. Burger flippers should make 20.   Like,   so   this learning skill sets   never happens because they think they should make big bucks out the gate. And they think that those stupid skills, those stupid things like flipping burgers, which what that really did was teach you how to be taught you work ethic   and things like that and how to how to actually be employed until you got a good job.   Like but they think that they need to get the good job money at that shit, and it's it's it's insane. And this is just a   societal thing that's really broken a lot of systems.  

So you why would I take on an apprentice that I gotta pay $20 an hour and give him my skills? And then the little like, as an electrician.   I I gotta pay this guy giant money, teach him all my skills, and then little motherfucker's gonna go off and fucking go start a business business across the street and cut my throat?   Why would I even do that?   Yeah.  

[01:28:53] allen marcus:

That's gonna be an important part of   our discussion moving forward is describing   with accurate information, statistics,   and data   how the world is   actually   functioning   now.   Yeah. Not how we think it was, not how we think it's going to work, but with actual data,   how is the world   actually working   with   McDonald's jobs,   any small town Starbucks jobs? Are they really paying the most? Is Walmart really the largest employer   in these sort of communities? What's going on? What are they making? Is the government   really giving them food stamps to Walmart workers because Walmart has got this arrangement where they can pay them   just the bare minimum for them to wanna get the job, but then not enough for them to   raise above poverty. Like, I've heard that. Is that true? I don't know. Does it matter if you're in a red state or a blue state? What is the actual data? A lot of people will get on debates, and then they'll   use emotion and ideas about what they want to happen   without engaging with how the world actually is   as a foundation   and then saying,   in this debate, I wanna discuss a one simple change   we can all get on board with   will move us in the direction that we wanna go. So start with a solution.  

Debate the solution that you wanna see more people get involved with, and then they can break down the the merits of your solution   if it's like   apprenticeship. So we're in favor of apprenticeship.   Well, what are the downsides to apprenticeship? Well, do you have to now take out more insurance?   Is some 18 year old kid gonna come in and walk off with your tools and sell to buy meth later?   These sort of concerns. Do you have to put up security cameras everywhere? I mean, I've been at I've been at farm sites   where the where the the family farm wants to hire   the meth workers   and then have them live on a bunk   on the property.  



[01:30:58] Benjamin Balderson:

Do you have a camera around here, Marcus? Yeah.   Are you speaking? Have you been watching us?   I've heard you're my handler. I've heard that bandied about. Is this true?  

[01:31:16] allen marcus:

I'm just a notetaker.   Not register.  

[01:31:23] Benjamin Balderson:

Everybody over here is real attention to what you're saying right now. Like, that's feeling oddly specific.  

[01:31:32] John Roeland:

Oh, that's funny.   Oh, man.  

[01:31:38] allen marcus:

That's just that's just the life of the farm.   And that's why   partly why I'm not   at that place anymore   because they noticed that I was noticing things and they didn't   one of the guys got real uncomfortable   because of the authority factor.   Because he was abusing his authority.   Specific example, being a family farm, having   3, 4 sons,   2 of them were were there every day,   and one of them   decided that he was going to hire, you know, 16, 17, 18 year olds. And if they're 18, now they're adult, and they could sign up for   a vacation club multilevel marketing membership thing. Right? So he would so he would hire them for a summer job. They wanted money. He'd say, hey. After before you, you know, clock out and come into my office, I I got gotta talk to you about something.  

They'd go. They'd sit down. He'd close the door. He'd push and take. He'd play the tape as a video of the vacation thing. He said, well, since you have a job now   and let me tell you, this job isn't gonna pay very much. We gotta be honest with you, but the here's another opportunity.   So now if you sign up for this with the h m l a. If you sign up for this vacation club, we can go to Puerto Vallarta   in the winter and you take the job off. And then because we have this other opportunity here, you know, this type of thing. So I was   working with these 18 year olds, and they were asking me if I saw the vacation membership club thing. And I said, no. I hadn't because I didn't need to see it. And I told them that that was not a requirement to work at this tree farm.  

So I'm sure word got around that I was   challenging   authority to say, well, no. That's   that's not part of the job requirement,   actually. You know, you can you can tell that guy, no. I'm going home. I'm not gonna sit in your office and talk about non work related things.  

[01:33:38] Benjamin Balderson:

Off the clock. Off the clock. So that way, you can talk me into giving you back my paycheck in a multilevel marketing scheme. Right. Well, apparently, it worked for the the guy because he drove a BMW  

[01:33:51] allen marcus:

to work one day with, like, the sticker on the back windshield to say that it was paid for by this club membership thing as a as a reward for him making a certain tier or making signing up a certain number of people.   So you can tell enough people signed up, paid their first dues,   and then he got to lease a BMW for, like, 12 months   or something   on their expense. But why do you drive a BMW   and park it in the middle of a tree farm where rocks are flying off of,   you know, dump trucks   every day.  

[01:34:26] Benjamin Balderson:

I you know, if you're not living on the edge in your beamer, then do you really appreciate it?   What a jackass.   Another thing that seems to go hand in hand with red pill. It's not in their   thing, but you need to be part of a multilevel marketing scheme if you're in the red pill. It's like the Mary Kay for fucking   pretend alpha dudes.  

[01:34:57] allen marcus:

Yeah.  

[01:34:58] John Roeland:

It was kinda like that in the, the health freedom movement too.  

[01:35:02] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. Yeah. All the people love manly things, actual manly things. Like, I have,   we know this dude named Zara Lab, and he fucked it. He's like, well, what games do you play? Because I was making fun of whatever video games he's talking about. I'm like, I don't know. I do Nancy things. I go out and chainsaw trees and put down fence and shit. You know? I'm a real sissy like that.   They got time to play video games, man.  

[01:35:33] allen marcus:

Yeah.  

[01:35:35] Benjamin Balderson:

Like, if you've got you've got, like, 10000 hours into a character that you built on some game, I I don't got that.   I don't fucking get that.  

[01:35:46] allen marcus:

That's funny. It's a coping mechanism we can talk about. What is coping?   How to get out how to get out of coping mode.  

[01:35:58] Benjamin Balderson:

Well,   the first thing is is   learn to accept yourself.   Everybody wants everybody to view them, like, in this fucking peachy ass way.   But at the end of the day, you gotta learn what you find acceptable,   where you fit into the you gotta get in where you fit in.   And then fucking just fucking justify it with yourself. Just learn to fucking   resolve your fucking world inside yourself.   Like, that's the end of it. Then you don't need to cope. Then you don't need to cry around because you know what? You can call it. You can make fun of the shit that like, I have people shit on me and the things that I do all the time. So I don't fucking care.   I like them. I don't give a fuck what you think.  



[01:36:48] John Roeland:

What do you guys think about,   if we,   I mean, if we do this on YouTube,   do we have to be cautious about   topics or guests that we have on?   Because,   like, you know, like   sure.  

[01:37:09] Benjamin Balderson:

Guess a little bit.   I didn't expect Marcus to come in and be like, oh, I was talking to one of the heads of the red pill like godfathers today. I mean   so, like, yeah. We need to be cautious about that, dude. It's gonna get the fuck censored out of it. Or if we have, like, red ice radio or something on Right. You know, but  

[01:37:29] allen marcus:

And there are there are other people in the community who   I could contact and say, would you come and talk to us? And they would speak with us   If we get established as those guys that talk to those guys, then  

[01:37:44] Benjamin Balderson:

that might be a We're gonna get pigeonholed.  

[01:37:47] allen marcus:

That that might be the, forever slap in the wrist, continue to be shadow banned. And if the point of this was to reach your broader audience,   then we need to strategically   maneuver   ourselves in some ways to reach a larger audience.   Yeah. So that's kind of where we're   that's kind of where we need to figure out where   the lines are, kind of sketch them out on a a plan   to kind of have an idea of   we can't self censor because   we have to tell the truth.   Yes. We have to tell the truth to ourselves and to the people listening.   We have to find a way to communicate the truth that isn't gonna trigger all the knee jerk reactions and the red flags   and the, the feminist and the cancel culture mobs who are looking for people who are gonna say things that they don't like. So then they stick their mobs on them to report every video and everything they do.  

Yeah. So that's and and that is really where   the the man is challenged with these constant shit tests at every every   every footstep that they take moving forward.   This sort of challenge   needs to be pushed up against. That's why we're doing this debate thing. That's why we're talking about masculinity and leadership and these types of things. But knowing the climate of it,   well, we have to   we have to be aware of what the climate is.   But I think maybe the goal of doing this is to push back to change the climate to restore our balance to it. Yes. Allowed  

[01:39:20] Benjamin Balderson:

to be in the in the fucking   discussion.  

[01:39:23] allen marcus:

Right.   We have to be found.   We can't we can't be   buried before we even  

[01:39:32] Benjamin Balderson:

And we already kinda we we are all   conspiracy world or conspiracy world adjacent.   Yeah. We know we know what things get us piss hammered. We can't sit there and say that   the the COVIDs   and, taking in the backs and all those things,   those those are just   too hot topics   too much. You know? Yeah.   Certain words, like, even those larger soul shows,   they don't say they don't say rape.   They don't say,  

[01:40:08] allen marcus:

war. Su suicide. We can't talk about suicide statistics. You you can't say suicide?  

[01:40:13] John Roeland:

Yeah.   Yeah. The Jews   Unaliving.  

[01:40:17] allen marcus:

Pedophiles. You have to say PDF file, but they figured that out. So it's this constant shifting of   the sensors are finding out what the codes are,   putting those in the sensors to flag it for for review.  

[01:40:34] Benjamin Balderson:

And this is why   artificial intelligence will never replace humans because you had to put in the fucking thing for them to flag the certain word, but the computer never was able to figure out   in a a meaningful way the conversation.   So we had to tell them again the next thing that's the bad thing, and then they can find it.   So and and but then also when they find it,   it's unilateral.   So it's not there's no longer any context   for the word. So and,   you know, it's no different than   when you couldn't say bomb on airplanes back in back in the day. And then, you know, it was, oh, wow. That shit's the bomb. You know, that that didn't matter. Yeah. No. It didn't matter the context that the word was getting said in.   They just auto flagging   certain words.  

And so, like, a conversation where you would normally,   like, be talking about, like, something productive, like, how to prevent rape in a society. You can't even have that conversation because just the word in and of itself   is pink.  

[01:41:39] allen marcus:

Sure. And I think I would offer hope in setting that   our audience   who wants to hear this content   is already hip and wise to how censorship works   and will   find us on other platforms   if we make it clear that that's where we're at. So it could be that   we do short promos to YouTube,   maybe. I don't know. I don't know the marketing side of it   as well as, you know, some of the other people who go really heavy on it. I think that's   but in my mind, like, the people that spend all day marketing, that's sort of a very feminine trait   where it's sort of the guy attitude.  



[01:42:24] Benjamin Balderson:

How about you, John?  

[01:42:27] allen marcus:

I mean I'm not gonna jump up for it after he called it feminine? Like like getting on like getting on TikTok and posting the real it's, you know, it's even even the men who get real flamboyant and exaggerated.   Wow. Look at this great opportunity. It's like  

[01:42:42] John Roeland:

Yeah.   No. I'm pretty I mean, I'm not monotone,   but I'm very level.   So,   but I mean, I don't mind posting to TikTok.   You know. I mean, I do have a TikTok account, and, I mean, I don't post to it much, but but what's interesting is a lot of my stuff has been has been community guidelines   on TikTok, and it's just talking   about just talking about not voting,   like crazy shit that you wouldn't even think. You can't tell people to not vote. Really?  

[01:43:13] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.   So I had to supposedly Chinese   owned  

[01:43:18] John Roeland:

and controlled, but yet that's the that's the thing. Not only I see people talking about all these crazy conspiracies   on TikTok   and   just they're allowed to flourish. I mean, my whole TikTok feed is the conspiracy world. Right. Yes. But my video is saying,   yeah, one video is saying   don't vote or unregister to vote or something like that. And then another video I had where we were in the city doing a live, you know, public outreach,   and we just had, like, some signs about COVID.   And then it was a video of Mike Mattingly playing one of his songs,   and they gave me a community guideline strike.  

So   you know what's interesting too is and I hate to always, like,   talk about Mark Passio, but,   man, he says a lot of shit that I'm like, bro, we when we were when I was with Natural Freedom League on YouTube, we got videos taken down. We got strikes all the time.   And I'm listening to him. One of his episodes, he kept saying rape.   And I'm like, how does he get away with this shit, dude? Like,   I mean, I don't know. Maybe he's grandfathered in because he's been doing it for so long or something, but  

[01:44:35] Benjamin Balderson:

make sure why I didn't get no grandfather  

[01:44:38] John Roeland:

treatment. That's for damn sure. They fucking kicked him fucking like It makes you suspicious. It makes you suspicious for sure because he I mean, you know, because he goes in his rants, and he's, like, saying, they're raping us. Rape. Rape. Rape. And he said it, like, 10 times. There's there's, like, pressure release valve  

[01:44:55] allen marcus:

people   who are allowed to exist   to present that sort of content.   What I don't understand   is how other people can say the same thing he says,   get community guidelines and removed and shadow banned forever.  

[01:45:12] Benjamin Balderson:

Literally gets get shadow banned and removed for reposting   those things.   Like, it's allowed to exist on the original part, but if you repost it.  

[01:45:29] John Roeland:

Potential.  

[01:45:33] allen marcus:

They're. Yeah. It's the the steam release valve for people get angry, and they like it when Mark Passy was angry and says dumb things. It shows the vomit puppet thing and calls people names, and it's entertainment,   perhaps. I think Alex Jones showed that effect over time. His entire career where is he now? Like, what is his position now? Well, kind of a joke, kind of an entertainer, kind of a circus clown guy.   It's not how he started.   Freeman continued on his same path and trajectory,   Didn't really change. Didn't really go to entertainment, edutainment, or conspiratainment.   No one really remembers him. He's not getting promoted very  

[01:46:15] Benjamin Balderson:

much anywhere. He got he got the other guy. The first YouTube victim. The other guy I'm gonna bring up,  

[01:46:21] allen marcus:

Stu Peters.  

[01:46:23] John Roeland:

Stupiders?  

[01:46:24] allen marcus:

Out of Minneapolis,   a bounty hunter guy out of Minneapolis.   You know, Saint Paul, Minneapolis, Twin Cities, Minnesota.   Yeah. So he is now a big   serious contender for   news journalism,   and he's   holding a rally in October   coinciding with the release of a documentary film about   the Jewish   control of the White House in our federal government.  

[01:46:51] Benjamin Balderson:

Wow.  

[01:46:53] allen marcus:

Really? So he's the same guy talking about putting   snake venom in the water. He's he was talking about, suddenly dying from blood clots, which were, like,   worms. Other things. Yeah. Yep. So he takes the topics that we would talk about in a serious sort of way and investigate them. Okay? But now he puts out the documentary. He's the only person who can talk about it. Everybody else is silent. So that sort of releases the information,   releases the steam, doesn't let it   explode. It's the sort of the controlled   release of the information.  

But, man, your name is stupider's?  

[01:47:36] John Roeland:

Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy.   But I I think the idea of, like, a bumper   on YouTube   and directing people to different platforms, I mean, depending on the topic maybe.  

[01:47:50] Benjamin Balderson:

I I I think that we could maybe   do things where we open up YouTube and then the less sensory,   like rumble and whatnot. And then the ones that   distinct   distinctly,   are gonna get us popped, we put up bumpers,   and we're like, yeah. This one was a little spicy. Got   a little spicy. You want this one, you gotta go over here.   Yeah.   Which just includes basically any episode that any show that we do like that, we take down after the live, which is what a lot of these guys do because,   it's hard for them to catch that shit during the live. So you take it down after the live and then you re reload it   with,   either do reload it or don't. And if you're gonna reload it, you cut out them spots, maybe do a full version on another channel, or just do a bumper on YouTube.  

But we just pull it off of their app immediately after the live, yank it off YouTube.  

[01:48:55] allen marcus:

Set it to private   right after the live stream ends? Yep. Yep. Set it to private. If we're going on other people's channels into their StreamYard or whatever,   green room that they have set up for the broadcasting of the stream,   then I guess it would probably be their problem to figure out if the content's gonna be removed or not.   So figuring out   what their sort of ground rules are for engagement   It's probably the respectful thing to do. And then play by their rules as as much as we can. That'll be kind of the learning experience too. If we're going on,   say, like, staunch leftist feminist or those types of debate people, like, they're hosting it. We're their guests. Moment is up to them.  



[01:49:42] John Roeland:

Yeah.  

[01:49:43] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah.  

[01:49:45] John Roeland:

Well, maybe in our first couple episodes, we can try to   not get into too touchy of topics   just to establish   who we are and what we're doing.   And then, you   know, like, objective subjective,   you know, that could be a a good   starting point or one of the, you know,   original videos that we do, topics that we do.   You know, maybe   maybe we can do something about relationships,   you know, men and women. Kinda   kind of a general   outline of what the channel is gonna cover  

[01:50:24] allen marcus:

without without getting into anything too? We we might start with the first topic, like, should all men   be married? Should all men   have it a goal in their life to be married?   Is it is it acceptable for some men to never marry?  

[01:50:42] Benjamin Balderson:

Yes.   In my opinion,   that that whole there's somebody for everybody thing   that that's really messed with people's heads. Like, you look you look back at the day.   In the day, there was all kinds of cowboys and shit like that that didn't,   didn't,   have kids, didn't procreate. Like,   some guys,   that's not what they wanna do in life. Should some men never have children?  

[01:51:14] allen marcus:

Yes.   So those might be the safer   starting points.  

[01:51:24] Benjamin Balderson:

But   Yeah. I do like the objective subjective. I like that a lot. I think that'll give people an idea   of where we're at mentally and philosophically because that's a fairly deep subject.   And it's something that,   you know, there's a lot of approaches to it, and it'll show it'll show showcase logic and philosophy at the same time. It's a good one.  

[01:51:49] John Roeland:

I think that could be 1,   starting off to where it sort of,   pass the mic   instead of, like, instead of saying, oh, I'm gonna go get Will, and I'm gonna go get Corey Anderlot,   and let's   have them team up against,   you   know, us. And, you know, we are the subjective side. They're the objective side. It might be good just to have it, like,   you know, a round table. Everyone kinda says their perspective,   and,   you know, let it let the debate develop from there.  

[01:52:22] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. Yeah. More discussion, debate style. Yeah.  

[01:52:27] John Roeland:

Because, you know, that's that's one that,   you know, you could kind of land in the middle on that. You know? You could say some of it is objective, some of it's subject you know, which means it's subjective. Right?   But but I think it's deep enough to where it's you can get into some nuance,   details   that would be meaningful. So,   yeah, no, I think that's a good idea.   So maybe for this week, we can just   come up with more ideas for prompts,   and maybe we   combine   a couple of prompts in one episode.   Yep. You know?   And   then,   yeah,   and then start,   start rolling.  



[01:53:18] Benjamin Balderson:

Should we shoot for recording next week?  

[01:53:21] allen marcus:

Oh, we're recording now so we could close-up the recording close-up 2 hours. And and and actually  

[01:53:28] Benjamin Balderson:

something that because, I mean, this is probably gonna go into bonus material, but recording something that we're   intending on being a show.  

[01:53:35] allen marcus:

Right. Right. Yeah. I think so.   I think we should record every conversation we have just to be in the mode of we're being recorded.   Yeah. Yeah. It's on the permanent record.  

[01:53:48] John Roeland:

Don't say,   vaccine. Say medical procedure.  

[01:53:53] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. Yeah.   I mean,   it's irritating. It sucks. We don't like it either, but it is what it is, and we wanna get on the we wanna be heard. And unfortunately,   you know,   when in and the thing is I'm not even as mad at him about it as everybody else. Because for me, when in Rome do as the Romans and this is their thing. And I agree that they've got the scales tipped, but I also if I owned it, I wouldn't if if I owned a platform, I wouldn't let you say just anything that you wanted on that either.   Like, if you got out and you're, like, started promoting,   you know, we're not this isn't something we intend on using as a show, but, like, let's say, you went out and start promoting pedophilia.  

Fucking your your channels.   Gone, bro.   And I'm probably gonna fucking promote another channel that fucking maybe says your address and fucking where to find you and take you out the fucking. Again, I don't fucking know.   You know, like, if it's mine,   like, that shit's gonna happen.   So I can't even I can't even hate on him.  

[01:54:57] John Roeland:

I saw a Facebook profile today, people you might know, and his name   was m a p Hunter.  

[01:55:05] Benjamin Balderson:

Nice.   Nice.  

[01:55:07] John Roeland:

Had, like, a ski mask on and shit.   You know what's crazy is that Facebook,   they they are, like, the least likely to censor   these kind of discussions.   Like, if you go live to Facebook.  

[01:55:20] allen marcus:

Really?  

[01:55:21] Benjamin Balderson:

That's what I found. I mean, YouTube haven't seen you censor anything ever for that kind of thing, your videos.  

[01:55:28] John Roeland:

Yeah. I I mean, they   I'm surprised by that, but  

[01:55:32] allen marcus:

they, It may be because it's harder to find that content on Facebook.   YouTube being   the de facto search engine. People don't even go to Google anymore. They go to YouTube to search   for what they're looking for.   And because Google   is YouTube,   is alphabet, is the same it's all they're all the same technology companies. They're all communicating with each other. They're all following policies together. But with YouTube being the front page of the Internet now, it's   everything.   They really clamped down on what can be searched for. So even when you're searching for very specific topics,   you're not gonna find a wide variety of stuff. They tend towards showing new content within the last   2 weeks.  

It's gonna be at the top. You're looking for something from 10 years ago?  

[01:56:26] John Roeland:

Good luck.   Yeah.  

[01:56:29] allen marcus:

It's not gonna be easily found.  

[01:56:36] John Roeland:

Alright. Well,   yeah. I'm I'm excited about thinking about some prompts.   And,   yeah. Alright. Maybe maybe let's decide in the next few days, like, what we wanna start with   and see if we can see if we can get someone to hop on here with us or a couple people.  

[01:56:55] allen marcus:

Sure. Maybe try ending the recording and seeing what happens. Does it kick us out of the studio?  

[01:57:00] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. Or is this gonna work? Yeah. Let's do that first. Let's let's and that's what happens here.