Why do so many famous, seemingly successful musicians wind up completely broke?
In this bonus series, I’m interviewing incredibly talented musicians who are using cutting-edge podcasting technology to reinvent the music industry.
Today we’re here with Suzanne Santo, singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist. A tireless creator, her sound has been described as Americana, Southern-gothic soul, and forward-thinking rock & roll. Santo performed for a decade as a member of the L.A.-based duo HoneyHoney, and went on to tour the world from Greece to Glastonbury as a member of Hozier’s band.
You’re going to dig this one. In this episode, you’ll hear:
These special episodes with fellow performing artists are free of ads with no sponsors, so if you like what you’re hearing, you can support this show by sending a “boost” or “boostagram” to this episode on a modern podcasting app like Fountain.
If you want to help create a better future for music and podcasting, here’s your challenge:
If you’d like to hear Suzanne Santo LIVE, we’ll be sharing the stage this Monday, 12/16 at Antone’s in Austin, TX.
>> Get your tickets ($10): AntonesNightclub.com
>> Or join the Livestream on Tunestr or Adam Curry’s Boostagram Ball podcast (Show starts at 6pm Central / 7pm Eastern / 4pm Pacific on Monday, December 16, 2024)
Head over to SuzanneSanto.com for music, upcoming shows, merch and more from Suzanne Santo
Read the show notes: https://fatburningman.com/suzanne-santo-how-to-reinvent-a-broken-music-industry/
In this bonus series, I’m interviewing incredibly talented musicians who are using cutting-edge podcasting technology to reinvent the music industry.
Today we’re here with Suzanne Santo, singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist. A tireless creator, her sound has been described as Americana, Southern-gothic soul, and forward-thinking rock & roll. Santo performed for a decade as a member of the L.A.-based duo HoneyHoney, and went on to tour the world from Greece to Glastonbury as a member of Hozier’s band.
You’re going to dig this one. In this episode, you’ll hear:
- The surprising and tragic truth about big contracts in the music industry
- How and why musicians lose creative control over their art and identity
- How to maintain top health and performance on the road
- How to balance a career as a musician with being a mother
- Why deleting all of your social media accounts is awesome
- And much more…
These special episodes with fellow performing artists are free of ads with no sponsors, so if you like what you’re hearing, you can support this show by sending a “boost” or “boostagram” to this episode on a modern podcasting app like Fountain.
If you want to help create a better future for music and podcasting, here’s your challenge:
- Download the Fountain app.
- Add a few dollars to your lightning wallet.
- Find this episode, click the lightning icon, and send us a Boost with an optional message.
If you’d like to hear Suzanne Santo LIVE, we’ll be sharing the stage this Monday, 12/16 at Antone’s in Austin, TX.
>> Get your tickets ($10): AntonesNightclub.com
>> Or join the Livestream on Tunestr or Adam Curry’s Boostagram Ball podcast (Show starts at 6pm Central / 7pm Eastern / 4pm Pacific on Monday, December 16, 2024)
Head over to SuzanneSanto.com for music, upcoming shows, merch and more from Suzanne Santo
Read the show notes: https://fatburningman.com/suzanne-santo-how-to-reinvent-a-broken-music-industry/
[00:00:00]
Abel James:
Hey, folks. This is Abel James, and thanks so much for joining us on this special episode of the show. Why do so many famous seemingly successful musicians wind up completely broke? In this bonus series, I'm interviewing remarkable musicians who are using cutting edge podcasting technology to reinvent and reimagine the music industry. And the time is nearly upon us. I'm thrilled and honored to be playing the opening set live at Austin's legendary home of the blues, Antone's Nightclub on December 16th, and I hope you can join us. I'll be premiering a brand new original tune on acoustic guitar, then playing Voodoo Queen with a band and rocking out on electric guitar and singing with SOB and the danks. We'll be sharing the stage with 5 artists and bands, our friends Suzanne Santo, Ainsley Costello, Henry Invisible, the Austin Legend, FM Rodeo, and surprise guests. And these special podcast episodes with fellow performing artists are going to be free of ads with no sponsors. So if you like what you're hearing, you can support this show by sending a boost or a boostagram to this podcast using a modern podcasting app like fountain. And if you wanna create a better future for music and podcasting and help be part of this innovation, here's your challenge. Download a modern podcasting 2 point o app like the Fountain FM app and learn how to send a boost or a boostagram to an artist or a podcaster that you dig. And through the magic of modern podcasting technology, you can actually send a small micropayment to podcasters and musical artists through the Lightning Network. Sounds complicated. Sounds hard. It's actually really easy. And automatically, that payment can be distributed to the right party. So if there are multiple people in the band or if the host of a podcast wants to split it with a musician whose music they're playing or they're interviewing, you can have that all automated. With no one in the middle, you can have a direct relationship between listener and creator and also creator and creator. And so this is really exciting. It's a very, incredible time to be, especially in Austin, Texas, where the worlds of music and technology often meet. So I'm just thrilled about this event coming up in downtown Austin, Texas. The SATS by Southwest Independent Music Summit at the Bitcoin Commons on December 15th. And then, of course, we have the concert at Anton's for Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball live on December 16th. Make sure to join us for the live stream or in person. You can go to abeljames.com and sign up for the newsletter for more details. I'll be sending out all of the live stream information. You can also visit satsbysw.com for more information about the 2 day event.
Alright. Today, we're here with Suzanne Santo, singer, songwriter, and multi instrumentalist. In this episode, you'll hear the surprising and tragic truth about big contracts in the music industry, how and why musicians lose creative control over their art and their identities, how to balance a career as a musician with being a mother, why deleting all of your social media accounts is awesome, and much more. And be sure to listen until the end of this interview to hear Suzanne's original track, Worried. Let's go hang out with Suzanne. Alright, folks. We're here with multi talented actress, singer songwriter, and musician, Suzanne Santo. She's toured with some of the biggest acts in the world, including Honey Honey, Butch Walker, and Hozier.
Suzanne is also one of the featured artists playing at Antone's for Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball, and we're all stoked. Thanks so much for joining us, Suzanne.
[00:03:37] Suzanne Santo:
Thanks, Abel. Damn. I don't get the actress card very often, but it it's true. And that's that's fun to remember the good old days, or I don't think they were that good. Just the old days.
[00:03:50] Abel James:
The old days. Indeed. It was different back then. But the point is that you're, multitalented, not just in in the worlds of acting and your other experience, but specifically with music. You also play a whole bunch of different instruments, and you act in kind of a lead role playing solo very well as well as, a supporting one. So I I would love to talk about that a little bit. But before we do, let's just have you give a quick recap of your life so far. Not that that's easy to do, but let's just what's your origin story? And and, specifically, how did you get to the world of of music rocking out so hard with some of the biggest acts in the world?
[00:04:27] Suzanne Santo:
Wow. Well, first of all, thank you. That I'm just gonna take that little boost. It feels nice to hear those things. You know, it's not I don't often think of myself in that way, so thank you. Well, I'm originally from Cleveland, Ohio, the Cleveland, as they call it. I was, a young model at 16, and I moved to New York City where I worked for a few years and started acting, which brought me to Los Angeles. And I realized pretty early on that acting is a well, both industries are pretty brutal. But, as much as I loved it, which I did love it, I, music was always calling. I was always singing and started playing violin when I was 11 and, you know, played an orchestra and always loved that. And, and I understood the value of music when I was younger because I got a small scholarship to my Catholic high school. And that was such a big deal, you know, for my parents to help pay for tuition. And I just kind of remember, like, just understanding, like, oh, this kid there's something here. You know? It's not just, like, for fun and a hobby.
And so when I got to Los Angeles, it was very lonely for a couple years. It's I think I think in a lot of cities, but LA in particular, if you're like a Midwesterner with Midwestern values, it's pretty hard to fit in there. And so Sure. I didn't really find, like, my good friends for a while. And so I started writing the saddest songs you've ever heard and playing open mics and things. And that kind of progressed pretty quickly for me and, like, was sort of getting, like, like, record label attention pretty early on and things like that. And I formed my band, Honey, Honey, a long ass time. Okay. Can we swear on this? I should probably Yeah. Go ahead, please.
I have a potty mouth, but I also have children now, and I have to figure out how to how to deal with that. Right. So Feel free to let her rip. So, anyway, music, you know, just kind of, like, took off in the way that you sorta, like, follow the wind a little bit. And, I mean, it still surprises me, to be honest with you. Like, I've had a lot of near misses, you know, like, close to the thing and it never really happened or, like, I got to do cool stuff. But, you know, I guess, I I would say, like, my pinnacle of I don't really like the word success because it gets confusing because I'm not really sure what that means.
The most success I've had is getting married and having children. That's to me is like the Yeah. Mega, to be honest with you. But, in terms of my work and my art and music, you know, I guess the biggest boon was that, was in 20 started in 2017 was when I got to, like, have a sustainable living. And it's really hard as you know. Like but the thing that's really interesting is now I heard this once from a Spotify representative in the way that they talk about the industry, but I'm what they refer to as a torso artist. Like K. I'm not at the top and I'm not at the bottom. I'm not gonna use anatomy to kinda continue that medicine because it could get a little weird, but, somewhere near the belly button, I think, or upper clavicle. Could be worse. Yeah. It's on who you ask. If you ask my mom, she'd feel like you're right up there at the neck. But but I, like so, you know, I I, like, I played in Butch Walker's band and then he produced a record for me, and that was a huge deal to to get to meet somebody like that who I really admired and and learned a lot from. Like, I I think Butch really gave me a lot of confidence in kinda getting away from my identity in Honey, Honey, and and having the confidence to to carry shows by myself and things that were, you know, it sounds silly in retrospect, but at the time, you know, when you sort of get sort of stuck in a, idea of yourself, sometimes it's harder to get out of. But, you know, I I worked with Butch, and I I learned a lot from him as a performer, which was really cool because he's such a fun person to watch play. Like, the just the abandon and and freedom that he plays with is is very unique.
And so from these experiences, I got to kinda keep growing and and eventually, like, you know, like, not have a side job and things like that, which was was really cool. But, again, like, a very difficult life, especially for a woman approaching her mid thirties at the time and, like, wanting family and wanting a partner and a husband. And, you know, I'm giving you the soup to nuts story because you asked. This is great. But, you know, in 2020 when everything stopped, I I had a record that was coming out that I had to postpone, obviously. I was supposed to open for Mavis Staples in Europe among some other really cool things I was very excited about.
But, you know, everybody had their experiences then, and and mine was really hard in the sense that I was 35 at the time, and it hit me like a train that, like, I'm getting older and I think I lost I missed the window. And it was super painful. And, you know, like, it's a weird lifestyle touring. Touring and never being around, and and I think too, like, people also have a certain idea about musicians being a certain way. But I'm pretty, like, in, like, the grand scheme of, like, the way people can be, whether it's, like, lots of alcohol and drugs or like, I'm pretty tame, and I also really value my craft. Like, I wanna do a good job. So, if you're a singer, you know, you can't get all fucked up at your shows, etcetera. Like, you know, if people pay money to come see me, I wanna give them a good show. So, you know, I've like, I have a good relationship with all that stuff. Like, I just thank God, like, never had problems with substances or alcohol or you know, I'm just here for the music.
But, you know, to that end, like, I realized that the things I wanted weren't really compatible with a touring musician as a woman. Mhmm. You know? And it's really hard to connect with the kind of person that I I wanted. And so that year, I I spent, like, kinda wrestling with god and with myself, and I had a lot of dark nights of the soul. And and I was still in Los Angeles, which is a really tough place. Like, especially if you've been there a long time and you're sort of, like, kinda surrounded by the ideologies of of, you know, Hollywood and and just, like, you know, the the just the place. You know? And a good friend of mine, Joe Rogan, called me and was like it was like the middle of 2020, and he had just moved to Austin. And he was like, just trying to bring all his friends. You know? And and it was a really it was a really powerful conversation. I was very grateful to to have it it had such an impact on me. We talked for 2 hours, and he told me, you know, basically, like, why are you there? Like, what's what's keeping you there? And, you know, you you have this idea about the industry in music of, like, this is where you have to be. This is this is where, like, this is where it can happen wherever you you think, the rules apply. You know?
And my first thought was, I don't wanna move to Austin. It's too hot.
[00:11:55] Abel James:
Yeah. Fair. Fair.
[00:11:58] Suzanne Santo:
But, also, like, LA was getting so scary. I was chasing vagrants out of my yard every day. They were stealing things and, like, there were riots, and I was genuinely scared. And, you know, a few things happened. I woke up in a lot of ways, wink, to to get my life, in order, but also, like, out of the noise of that place, of the politics, of their taxes, of everything. And I just bet on myself, you know, and I moved to Austin. And and Joe and Gary were and and other than these two really good friends of mine that I've known for 10 years were the only people I knew. Wow. So, like, I mean, I came in, like, full on brand new. Like, I didn't have I didn't have any, like, social circle to hang on to or and, you know, I'm not gonna call, like, mister and missus Rogen to hang out all the time. Like, you know, we're we're friends, but not like that kind of friend. You know? Right. So I just got here. I moved here the week of the freeze in 2021, which is 60.
Wild. Like and I kept thinking, like, did I make a huge mistake? You know? Like, I it was a mess. Like but like I said, I'd spent the whole year, like, sitting with myself and praying and and, like, finding like, really naming what I wanted, you know, for my life and the rest of my time on earth. And I think there was some relevance to that because 3 weeks after I got here, I met my husband. Wow. It was like nothing I've ever experienced in my whole life, like like lightning striking. And, I mean, he is the love of my life. And we got engaged 9 months later and then, married in 2022.
And I have a stepdaughter who is my first daughter. And then we had a baby girl this past or in 2023 in October. And, like, the fucking best. It's like, I couldn't have asked for, like, a better blessing in my life and just I am eternally grateful to Joe and his enthusiasm to bring me here because clearly it was for a greater purpose. And then, you know, music is great too. You know? But that stuff is like the thing about what's happening, I think, for artists like ourselves, right, is we're trying something new and we're breaking out of this old routine and an old structure that doesn't work. And so, like, that kind of applies to my entire life right now. You know? Like, just just the way I think it comes down to values, not to, like, you know, honk honk value for value, but it's true. Like, you like, what do you value?
You know? And if you value art and you wanna support the artist, like, this is how it's this is a great direction for it to go in. And to that end, I'm gonna hand it over to you because I don't really know how this works, but I'm so excited to be diving in and and figuring it out with these great people, like yourself and Adam Curry. And, yeah, it's like I I'm just like again, like, taking a chance on something and and seeing how this goes. But so far, I'm I'm just excited to to be here.
[00:15:08] Abel James:
Yeah. It's early, and it's incredible. And we have new people hopping into the v four v and Valueverse space, like, on a weekly basis now, like, daily. Like, Theo from, Wolfpack just came and, like, rocked out with a tune. Yeah. And, like, a bunch of other people. I know Theo. I haven't seen him in ages. So it's incredible that, like That's awesome. Some of these relationships are more real than the rest of the Internet. Does that make sense? Like, that was my impression. When I went to, Nashville and met a lot of the people, musicians as well as the builders in the space, like, I was coming from the world of podcasting, primarily. I've been a musician for a long time, but as far as, like, releasing music, touring, and trying to, like, squeeze money out of the music thing, it's like I kinda moved over to the podcasting and media side. Now that those worlds are, like, meeting up, like, I'm so excited about the direction that things could go in if enough people hop on board and kind of, like, adopt this different way of thinking about music that gives both the artist and the listener a lot more, control over their situation. Because, like, how much of a bummer is it that we came from a place where we had these incredible, like, musical libraries back in the day of records, of tapes, of CDs that were generally, like, your favorites or something that a friend had gifted you or, like, you had met the artist at some point or gone to a concert, whatever it was. And now it's like, if you don't pay Spotify or Apple 10 to $20 a month for the rest of your life, you lose all of your favorite music and your connection with that whole thing. And so Well but also, I think it's desensitizing
[00:16:43] Suzanne Santo:
people too. And Yeah. I'll just speak for myself. Like, I you definitely don't value things you don't pay for Yeah. As much as the ones you do pay for. And so, like, I'm kinda overwhelmed with the structure of Spotify, with the way music is introduced. And and there's something sort of like it's I don't think it's made me cynical, but it's made me, like, disinterested in a lot of new music and and artists that I would normally wanna follow and things like that. And I think in general, like, even film and television, like, trying to find a good show is is like a needle in a haystack these days. Right? In a sea of mediocrity, it's just like Exactly. Watching. And it's and it's, like, I mean, half of it's probably written by AI. It's totally soulless, and it's it's, like, not relatable. You know?
So to that end, it's like, I don't think I'm alone in that quest for wanting genuine life experiences, and and, like, I wanna watch genuinely good content and listen to genuinely good music. And, you know, I think there's a return to it. That's why I'm so excited about this platform is I'm I'm hoping that other people want this too. And it's not like you have to, like, lose your ass spending money on it. It's like it's just sort of putting in investing into into things that you care about. You know?
[00:18:04] Abel James:
Yeah. And then from the artist side, it's an incredible opportunity to actually interact with the people who love your music. Like, it's weird, but on Apple or on Spotify, if someone loves one of your songs, like, they can't really send you a note about it through Apple or, like, leave a message or a comment or share it with a friend easily or whatever it is. And, these newer systems allow you to do just that. And one of my favorite things about, like, figuring out this whole space because I was new to it just a few months ago. Like, I I uploaded my album, in June.
So, like, I was trying to figure it out. Yeah. And it was just like it kinda gathered its own power because what what happened was basically, like, without putting any promotion behind it, which is typically what you have to do as a musician. You put out music, but mostly you just need to, like, market the heck out of it. When I uploaded it to WaveLike, it took on its its own life because other DJs who had podcasts, they're just like, oh, there's a new song here. Oh, I kinda like this. I'm putting it on my show. Yeah. And then someone else hears it, puts it on their show. And it's like, man, this is how music used to work. Like, this is we're back, baby. Like, this is this is incredible. And Well, and then you look to those, like, DJs to in like, because you value their influence and Yes. You know, their taste. So you're like, oh, man. What's new? You know? Remember when, like,
[00:19:21] Suzanne Santo:
do do you remember when, like, the nineties or I don't I'm not sure how old you are, but, like, like, when you heard a new band and it was like you claimed it, and so Totally. Wanted like like, have you guys heard of zebrahead? I was trying to get the funk vibe for a little while. You know, that kind of thing. It was exciting to be the one that told people about music, you know, that, like, the indie side of things. But, yeah, that's so cool. I love the return to that. I think it's fantastic.
[00:19:49] Abel James:
And now the incentives are aligned as well, such that for a a DJ or a podcaster, they are rewarded for finding new artists and and breaking them or finding great old tunes and just, like, pointing people toward them. And musicians are, at least, potentially rewarded for putting out music that resonates with their audience as as opposed to just kind of, like, putting it out on Apple or Spotify where there's not a whole lot of interactivity. You just kinda upload it and then hope for the best or hope that some big algorithm catches it or some big playlist or something like that. But, like, it's stuff's not real. Like, all the labels own the playlist.
[00:20:28] Suzanne Santo:
Yes. Hey, Ola, like, it always was. And and even then, like okay. So my solo record I did with Butch. I'm not gonna say who, but there was a record company that approached me with a 5 album deal. And it was terrible. And it was there was, like, no advance, but they owned half my publishing. They would've Woah. And and all the masters. So but it was like, we're gonna pick you. And I'll tell you, I know someone who took that deal, and she's she's quite well known, but she has no money and she's owned and and she's always on the road. And she's very talented, and I she took that deal. And, like, I'm not sure what how good that exchange is. If the it's like if you wanted the fame, you got it. Mhmm. If that's what success means to you, then you got it. But you don't own your own music, and you're not making that much money.
And that's hard. That's a hard pill to swallow, in my opinion. And I I think I'd rather just, like, kind of figure it out on my own, you know, and, like, you know, it's kinda like the mob. It's just, like, it's it's very interesting. And and I'm not saying that if I took that deal, I'd be at the top. Like, who knows? But it was just it felt so wrong in in my guts to be presented that, and, like, I just couldn't do it. It wasn't right to me, you know, especially when I've invested in my record myself, you know, and they weren't even gonna pay me for it. They were just gonna be like, we're gonna take this. And then we'll yeah. You just keep making music.
[00:22:09] Abel James:
And we own that too. It's like they own your future. That's the gnarliest thing to imagine. For me, like, as a creator, like, it's hard enough, most of the time to create songs on your own accord. You know? Like, through your own power. If someone is forcing you to do it or telling you, you must do it this way, or, no. I know you love that song and it means so much to you, but you can't put that one on the record. It's like, oh.
[00:22:35] Suzanne Santo:
Man. I know. That that's painful stuff. And, like, yeah. That's another thing. You're just your artistic integrity. But, like, again, like, tip of the hat to, like, you know, pioneering and being part of the, you know, the wagons that are headed to this this new territory. Because, like, you know, at any point, I've got a whole record that I'm so excited about. And, you know, one of the songs is worried that that you have. Yeah. But, like, you know, I can throw that into the void of Spotify anytime I want, but I I'm just, like, I'd rather start, you know, panning for gold here and figuring out a different way. It's just, like, you know
[00:23:14] Abel James:
It's it's worth it, and it's fun to play. It's fun to be early. Like, who knows if this will work? But having a bunch of kind of, like, smart motivated optimists together in this sort of situation feels like the right thing to do. Adam Curry at the helm. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Somebody to listen to. I think we'll do alright. But I did wanna ask you. I mean, speaking of, like, being on tour and the musician's lifestyle, but wanting a family and wanting to be able to, like, have some sort of predictability in in the way that you're living, whether it's financial or just, like, being in the same space for a minute, the same location and not being forced to travel. What was it like? I saw some videos of you performing very pregnant, it looked like. First of all, what how is that even possible?
[00:23:59] Suzanne Santo:
What was that like? Awesome. It was so fun. It was kinda like my last hurrah, to be honest with you, because, like, unless it's it's really worth it, and it's either my friends. Like, I did a really cool tour with Gary Clark this past August, and I brought my baby. And it really, like, it really worked. Like, I got to have Rosie with me and and play and watch one of my dear friends play. And I love Gary. You know, we've been friends a long time. He's amazing. But, you know, when I was pregnant, I just I was so full of joy and excitement. And, you know, I guess in retrospect, it might have been a little crazy, but, like, I'll be honest with you. I was talking about this with somebody yesterday because they were at I played in Colorado.
It was, like, September 1st, and my doctor was like, you need to be home September 1st. And I was like, well, what about September 2nd? Make a deal. You know? And I was very pregnant, and I was at, like, super high altitude. But for some reason, it was, like, the best I'd ever sang. Like, I I had all the I had full lung capacity. I don't know. I think it was, like, supernatural baby powers. Yeah. That was unforgettable. I mean, that that was, like, one of the most beautiful weeks of my life. And then, you know, I got to have this just, like, sparkle child. But our industry is not set up for mothers.
You know? And my heart goes out to people that have to be separated from their families for work. You know, we're at a point where my husband's in entertainment. You know, he's a writer director. He's very talented. And, you know, we've actually worked together this past year, and that was really fun. I got to do some music on one of his together this past year, and that was really fun. I got to do some music on one of his films. It was an honor, and he actually, put me in the movie. So I've so I did some acting as well. Nice. Small small role, but it was a blast. But, I mean, much like what you're doing with your podcasting and with music and and working with value for value and and, like, just just going into this this new territory, I'm a firm believer in, like, your own design. You know? And so what we wanna do is work together. We also wanna start our own podcast. Like, we've done a couple my husband and I. Like, we've done a couple rounds, and it was really fun. We're still kinda honing in on, a formula for it or form rather, so it, like, makes sense to people.
But we just like, we spent so long you know, the majority of our lives not together, and, you know, it doesn't make sense to be apart. Like, if I were, like, filling up stadiums, we'd have to have a different discussion, but I'm not. You know? And you can make music from home and you can put music out. And, you know, in terms of touring, I guess I'm just really fortunate that, you know, my my husband can provide for us that, like, I don't have to go out. And I and, again, like, my heart goes out for people and women especially that, that have to deal with that structure of, like, either being very difficult bringing your children, you have to bring childcare and that's expensive, or you're away from them. You know? Mhmm.
It's not really set up with day care.
[00:27:13] Abel James:
Yeah.
[00:27:15] Suzanne Santo:
So but, you know, again, like, I'm very fortunate that that we can, that I don't have to do it. You know? Of course of course, I have that, like, part of me that feels like you're supposed to. Like, you're like, oh, I gotta get out there and and, like, keep building and building. But I think that's that's an old program that I need to reassess.
[00:27:34] Abel James:
Yeah. I was gonna ask you, like, what is your definition of success in music, especially now that you do have a family? It's a moving target. Right? My definition is that
[00:27:45] Suzanne Santo:
is that I'm making music that I I'm really proud of that feels relevant to be shared. And I get to have this life with my family, and it's it's so full. And, you know, playing every once in a while where I get to, like, get get the fire out and and get on a stage. And and and that is, like, where I do my best work. You know? I'm a live performer through and through, and it's really fun. And I love to share, you know, my soul with people like that, you know, in that way rather. And that's success to me. You know? And if if, like, I had some song that, like, went, you know, slingshot into the universe, that's so cool. But the thing that I feel is the biggest success that I have now is that I don't care about that anymore, and it doesn't hurt anymore. Like, it used to just hurt so much, like, seeing my Spotify quarterlies and just being like, I'd I'd get a lot of plays. You know? Like, there's, like, 40,000 spins on this song, and I made $6.
You know? And that that would hurt so much. Like Yeah. You're like, oh, this is just an act of service now. Like, you know, I okay. And then you sort of start to think, like, you know, like Jesus or something. Like, this is just like we're just doing the Lord's work here. Like, this is just as I'm just throwing it out there.
[00:29:05] Abel James:
But But it's it's like one of those things that you kinda have to do anyway. Right? Like, I would assume that you just you can't stop playing music even if even if you stop touring and and doing that whole thing, or pursuing it in a certain way. At least for me, I've tried stopping a few times, and I can't. It's one of those things that just needs to keep
[00:29:26] Suzanne Santo:
Yeah. That that's the thing that's the magical part. You know? Yeah. And I think that, like, whatever is, like, mainstream success is out there, to me, every it's it's very rare that I'm really moved by one of those artists. And and that's not because I have a chip on my shoulders. It's just because my instincts are, like, not moved. I I mean, I'm just like, if if someone isn't singing from that place, that that, like, god place or whatever you wanna call it or, you know, the other thing that that is, like, channeled through you, you know, it's it's probably part of an agenda. It's probably part of the, you know, whatever record company, you know, archetype you're fulfilling for their, you know, platforms. And and, like, yeah, it it gets old.
You know? Whatever's trending and, like and now I was in LA, and I I, like, did for a very short time, like, stepped into, like, top lining writing, you know, for pop music because I was just trying to make money. And it was, like, so soul crushing because, you know, they have these big forums where there's, like, thousands of music producers, and they're chasing after trending BPMs, trending melodies, and chord changes. And they and they're, like, like, racing toward it. And it's so weird. Yeah. You know? Like, it's, like I guess if that's how you wanna do it, that's cool, but that's just not how I wanna do it.
[00:31:00] Abel James:
And you can tell. Best of luck. Yeah. Best of luck. But at least when I've seen and I've never seen you play live. I'm really looking forward to it. But, from what I've seen, there's this, like, visceral nature to what you're doing. You're, like, riding the edge. It seems controlled, but could go out of control at any moment, whether it's, you know, vocals or guitar. And very, very few artists perform in that space. How do you think you're able to to get there when so many other people are buttoned up or trying to be something that they're not or just, like, not really there?
[00:31:36] Suzanne Santo:
Well, I'm I'm not really sure, you know, because I I've kinda always been this way. So, like, let me put it this way. I've never released music that I needed someone to tell me, like, it was good. You know? It was just like I knew it was. And even if someone else doesn't think it is, I do. Yeah. Oh, and and that's okay. You don't have to we don't have to agree on everything, but I wasn't looking for that kind of validation outside. I I don't know. Singing and performing have just always come from this very specific place, and it's like a language, you know, that I I guess no. I'm not trying to, like, sound like, like, I'm up my own butt here. Like, it just has been fluent Yeah. For me for a long time. And I guess it's a vulnerability.
I guess it's a capacity to just share so openly. And then, like, off the stage, that gets me in trouble because, like, in the past, I said, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm learning, oh, you shouldn't be friends with this person. Like, you shouldn't let everyone into your life. Okay. Got it. Like, you know? Yeah. You know, boundaries. But, you know, on stage, there aren't really boundaries like that. Like, you just put it all out there. And sometimes it's really draining, actually. You know? Because you you come back from that, and you're, like, a little shaken up. Yeah.
But, yeah, I don't know. Like, it depends on what people want when they get up there or don't want or, like, it's kind of up to you as an artist to be like, what are you doing here? Mhmm. And I can't answer that for other people. But I guess for myself, it's like I was given something. Like, music always came to me in this way, and I I think it's meant to be shared. And I enjoy the closeness of it because it feels like love to me. You know? It it feels like moments of our humanity that bring a collective joy or healing or or or togetherness that, has always been really cool to me.
You know, one of my favorite shows or or types of shows that I've played over many, many years are when I get hired to play a town series. Like, small towns will have, like, oh, these are our Thursday night music, and they'll bring in an artist that nobody's heard of. And I would be that artist or, you know, Honey Honey did a lot of those things. And so you'd play in these towns. There'd just be, like, all walks of life and demographics. And and, like, everybody's just there for the free beer. Yeah. But, you know, you can see them having a great time. And so to me, that's, like, that's the thing that you're supposed to be doing. You know, like, oh, I got to entertain these people and whatever your life is like outside of this moment, I hope this brought you a boost or some joy or maybe you needed to fucking cry because I have a lot of sad songs.
And so that's, like, that's the purpose. You know?
[00:34:31] Abel James:
What about staying skilled in multiple instruments and keeping your voice healthy, especially on the road? How do you manage to do that or do you kinda treat it in seasons?
[00:34:41] Suzanne Santo:
That's a really good question. I treat it in seasons, especially now that I'm a mom. Like, I mean, I used to try to practice every day, and I'm like I'd be like, Mondays are guitar, Tuesdays are violin. And, like, I could maybe stick with that for a short time, but, you know, life happens. And string instruments to me are are kind of synonymous because, like, your muscle memory just kicks in. The violin is definitely the hardest. Like, I haven't played my violin in, like, a month and a half. And when I pick it up next, like, I should be alone in this house. Like, no one needs like, it it takes a minute. You know? It's a sensitive instrument. It's, there's no frets on it. It's sensitive to temperature and, you know, even just my own physical tension. Mhmm. So, you know, I have to practice that one a little more. But caring for your voice is something I I just got really good at over the years and especially when I was in Hozier's band because I have never sang that much in my entire life, and we would sing sometimes from, like, 6 in the morning to, like, you do, like, 2 promo or radio, and then you'd play a whole show. And and I I am so grateful to the, like, boot camp I went through in that band. I was a better guitar player after that. I I'd like to say that I wasn't a real guitar player until until after that band. I probably didn't play as well. Sorry, Hozier.
But, like, I learned so much. And I learned so much as a singer, just technique. And, you know, like I said earlier, I I mean, I love to have a cocktail like everybody else, but, you know, when it when it's the time is right and and, like, you know, you can't especially if you're a lead singer, like, you can't keep up with the boys or whatever if you wanna sound good. And I I care so much about my voice. I've taken speech therapy to learn how to speak properly and, you know, I'm probably vocal frying right now because I'm tired, but just being aware of how like, just the mechanics. Mhmm. You know? That that makes a big difference. You know? Just like you would, like, learning the blues or something, you know, or, like, versus classical. It's like, how do what are you doing with this thing? How does this work?
But, I mean, it's kinda like anything. Like, you take good care of your body in general. Like, be healthy.
[00:37:00] Abel James:
Well, how did you achieve that just generally staying healthy on the road? You already talked about, like, thankfully, that that substances weren't an issue, which oftentimes is, you know, the the thing that can really be catastrophic for people. But as well, I mean, you have to go long periods skipping meals, having only the wrong food around, or just, like, existing on no sleep, overperforming, like, getting burnt out. So how do you keep it together, especially in the face of so much uncertainty on the on the road?
[00:37:30] Suzanne Santo:
Well, it is certainly a young person's game. Yeah. Judging from this last week on the road, I am so tired. And I'm like, damn. I it's not like I used to be. You know? And and I'm fine with that. You know, over the years, like, it used to be really, really hard, and then they started, like, you know, like, you there's more Whole Foods in the country. And so, like, if you've toured, through the US enough, like, you kinda know where your stops are, and you know, like, if you're driving through certain parts of Texas for the next 6 hours, there's no food. And so you have to plan in the morning and and, like, you know, get your food for the day. And and we started I started bringing a cooler, but you do suffer. Like, it's you're exhausted.
You know? Unfortunately, when I would really, really tour, I would usually lose a lot of weight in not the right ways, you know, just because, like, you're well, I don't know. I would eat a lot, but I you're just moving, moving, moving. At weird times. Yeah. At weird times. Yeah. I actually always was really good about not eating late because I get acid reflux and that ruins your vocal cords. Mhmm. So I would what I would do was I would eat like a lumberjack breakfast, like, the whole thing. And and usually a big lunch and then kind of like the rest of the day with snacks and then nothing. Because I never really like, you don't wanna eat a huge meal before you play. But but, yeah, it is. It's really hard, especially now that, like, you know, if you wanna get into seed oils and all that stuff, like, you are stuck. But we're deep in the seed oils. Yeah. We're I'm deep in it too. And, like, I'm gonna be 40 next month, and I have never felt healthier than I do now. Like, we just we eat so well in our house.
We have good water. We, you know, cook our food most nights, and it's a blessing. And, like, just from the last week on the road, like, I've eaten so much shit that I don't normally eat, and I feel it, like, like, in my skin. You know? And, like, you know, I'm not gonna complain, but it is hard. It's difficult to stay healthy on the road. Yeah. But it's not like, I toured with this guy, Joshua James, who's, like, really talented and and a very interesting character. And, like, he had his own van, and he had this whole setup where he was, like, making his own hummus and, like, he'd bring his chickpeas and make his own hummus. Like, he just had a whole science, you know, and and, you know, you can do that too, but I wasn't that organized.
But it was a priority. You you realize that Yes. Yeah. You wouldn't survive otherwise. That when you're in a van, it's very difficult. If you're on a bus, you can do so much. I mean Yeah. I only did a couple bus tours, like, with Butch. And then with Hozier, we were always on buses. And so, like, you could have avocados and things, and it was just, like, really wake up and make your own coffee. And that was actually pretty awesome.
[00:40:15] Abel James:
Yeah. I hear that. I know you gotta run-in a minute, but I I do have to ask you about the social media becoming requirement thing, especially TikTok for musicians. Maybe you can just rant on that real quick.
[00:40:26] Suzanne Santo:
Sure. Yeah. I fucking hate it. I don't do TikTok. I, you know, I actually recently just deleted all my social media and then post when I have music stuff going on. But I've decided I I might need somebody to help me, like, rebrand the whole thing, but I'm not gonna really, like, post about my family as much. I truly want a return to my own genuine life experiences, and I'm fortunate enough that I can do that. However, I think it's terrible. I think it's terrible that you have to do all these things to keep yourself relevant and and, you know, you can't just be a musician. I used to love, like, like, making, like, skits and sketches, and and, like, it would come naturally because it was fun to do that. And if I feel called to do it, I will, and I'll just be, like, you know, putting something out there that's funny or, like, if I wanna play a song, it always comes from a place of, like, oh, I just wanna do this. I wanna sing for people, and I hope you enjoy this video. But, you know, it's like working for free again. And it's and it's not I think it gets dark really fast because it's really easy to become self obsessed when you're always looking at yourself and your your validation, and and I think it needs to stop.
I think it's really bad for young girls, especially, and I resent it wholeheartedly. And I would much rather spend time with my friends and loved ones in in real time. And if that makes me out of the loop or I lose work or admiration, I so be it. I think there's it's it's really, really bad for people. And I've seen what it's done to me. And it was a few months ago when all the stuff was happening in in the Carolinas after the hurricane, and I was becoming obsessed with it. And I was on x and I was angry. And my husband and I were having all these weird fights. And and one day, he said he just stopped me, and he said, I think you're going crazy. And I think you need to turn this off. I love you. This is this is not you. And I was like, oh my god.
And I I turned off. I deleted everything that night. I mean, I didn't, like, shut my accounts down. I just took it off my phone. But then I realized how much I was looking at my phone, like, getting up to pee at 3 in the morning. I was bringing my phone to the bathroom to look at it and then go back to bed. And even just within the 24 hours of canceling everything, I was just so aware of how often I picked it up. And it made me really sad, but then I got my power back. So my heart breaks for people that have to do it. I also think there are people that can do it for you and you can work with them and maybe, like, give that job to them and and try to live as as present a life as you can because life is so short and, like, machine time just makes it fly by. You know? Yeah. We're so right about that. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for yeah.
[00:43:24] Abel James:
Well, I'm so glad that you were able to spend some time with us here today, Suzanne. What is the best place for people to, find your music and anything else that you have coming out?
[00:43:32] Suzanne Santo:
Well, it's on Spotify. But, my new music will be coming out on fountain, and I'm around. I have a website, suzanne santo.com. I do have social media that I post on from time to time, Instagram and Twitter, and that's it. Oh, Facebook, I guess, but, you know,
[00:43:49] Unknown:
I'm trying to do. Yeah.
[00:43:52] Abel James:
Well, awesome. So excited to rock out with you at Antone's in just a few weeks. Thanks so much again.
[00:43:58] Suzanne Santo:
Alright. Bye.
[00:44:05] Abel James:
Thanks for joining us on this episode with Suzanne Santo. If you have a minute, stick around. We're gonna be playing one of Suzanne's original tunes called Worried, and we hope you like it. Don't forget, if you're using a modern podcasting app to boost in or send us a boostagram with your message, we always love hearing from you. And all these boosts are shared directly with the artists. On that note, I hope you enjoy this original tune from Suzanne Santo called
[00:44:35] Unknown:
Worried. I worry all day, all night. I guess I've always been in sway my whole life, worrying from sundown to sunrise. When the day comes, I function like a halogen light burning up inside I stumble through the day blacking out sometimes. Worrying is hijacking my mind because I let you take the wheel. When night comes, my free way of thoughts. I'll speed chase it where I am both criminal and cop. And I run myself in circles around what I'm not worrying about problems that I've got. Because I love you, Ted. Then you drive me crazy,
Hey, folks. This is Abel James, and thanks so much for joining us on this special episode of the show. Why do so many famous seemingly successful musicians wind up completely broke? In this bonus series, I'm interviewing remarkable musicians who are using cutting edge podcasting technology to reinvent and reimagine the music industry. And the time is nearly upon us. I'm thrilled and honored to be playing the opening set live at Austin's legendary home of the blues, Antone's Nightclub on December 16th, and I hope you can join us. I'll be premiering a brand new original tune on acoustic guitar, then playing Voodoo Queen with a band and rocking out on electric guitar and singing with SOB and the danks. We'll be sharing the stage with 5 artists and bands, our friends Suzanne Santo, Ainsley Costello, Henry Invisible, the Austin Legend, FM Rodeo, and surprise guests. And these special podcast episodes with fellow performing artists are going to be free of ads with no sponsors. So if you like what you're hearing, you can support this show by sending a boost or a boostagram to this podcast using a modern podcasting app like fountain. And if you wanna create a better future for music and podcasting and help be part of this innovation, here's your challenge. Download a modern podcasting 2 point o app like the Fountain FM app and learn how to send a boost or a boostagram to an artist or a podcaster that you dig. And through the magic of modern podcasting technology, you can actually send a small micropayment to podcasters and musical artists through the Lightning Network. Sounds complicated. Sounds hard. It's actually really easy. And automatically, that payment can be distributed to the right party. So if there are multiple people in the band or if the host of a podcast wants to split it with a musician whose music they're playing or they're interviewing, you can have that all automated. With no one in the middle, you can have a direct relationship between listener and creator and also creator and creator. And so this is really exciting. It's a very, incredible time to be, especially in Austin, Texas, where the worlds of music and technology often meet. So I'm just thrilled about this event coming up in downtown Austin, Texas. The SATS by Southwest Independent Music Summit at the Bitcoin Commons on December 15th. And then, of course, we have the concert at Anton's for Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball live on December 16th. Make sure to join us for the live stream or in person. You can go to abeljames.com and sign up for the newsletter for more details. I'll be sending out all of the live stream information. You can also visit satsbysw.com for more information about the 2 day event.
Alright. Today, we're here with Suzanne Santo, singer, songwriter, and multi instrumentalist. In this episode, you'll hear the surprising and tragic truth about big contracts in the music industry, how and why musicians lose creative control over their art and their identities, how to balance a career as a musician with being a mother, why deleting all of your social media accounts is awesome, and much more. And be sure to listen until the end of this interview to hear Suzanne's original track, Worried. Let's go hang out with Suzanne. Alright, folks. We're here with multi talented actress, singer songwriter, and musician, Suzanne Santo. She's toured with some of the biggest acts in the world, including Honey Honey, Butch Walker, and Hozier.
Suzanne is also one of the featured artists playing at Antone's for Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball, and we're all stoked. Thanks so much for joining us, Suzanne.
[00:03:37] Suzanne Santo:
Thanks, Abel. Damn. I don't get the actress card very often, but it it's true. And that's that's fun to remember the good old days, or I don't think they were that good. Just the old days.
[00:03:50] Abel James:
The old days. Indeed. It was different back then. But the point is that you're, multitalented, not just in in the worlds of acting and your other experience, but specifically with music. You also play a whole bunch of different instruments, and you act in kind of a lead role playing solo very well as well as, a supporting one. So I I would love to talk about that a little bit. But before we do, let's just have you give a quick recap of your life so far. Not that that's easy to do, but let's just what's your origin story? And and, specifically, how did you get to the world of of music rocking out so hard with some of the biggest acts in the world?
[00:04:27] Suzanne Santo:
Wow. Well, first of all, thank you. That I'm just gonna take that little boost. It feels nice to hear those things. You know, it's not I don't often think of myself in that way, so thank you. Well, I'm originally from Cleveland, Ohio, the Cleveland, as they call it. I was, a young model at 16, and I moved to New York City where I worked for a few years and started acting, which brought me to Los Angeles. And I realized pretty early on that acting is a well, both industries are pretty brutal. But, as much as I loved it, which I did love it, I, music was always calling. I was always singing and started playing violin when I was 11 and, you know, played an orchestra and always loved that. And, and I understood the value of music when I was younger because I got a small scholarship to my Catholic high school. And that was such a big deal, you know, for my parents to help pay for tuition. And I just kind of remember, like, just understanding, like, oh, this kid there's something here. You know? It's not just, like, for fun and a hobby.
And so when I got to Los Angeles, it was very lonely for a couple years. It's I think I think in a lot of cities, but LA in particular, if you're like a Midwesterner with Midwestern values, it's pretty hard to fit in there. And so Sure. I didn't really find, like, my good friends for a while. And so I started writing the saddest songs you've ever heard and playing open mics and things. And that kind of progressed pretty quickly for me and, like, was sort of getting, like, like, record label attention pretty early on and things like that. And I formed my band, Honey, Honey, a long ass time. Okay. Can we swear on this? I should probably Yeah. Go ahead, please.
I have a potty mouth, but I also have children now, and I have to figure out how to how to deal with that. Right. So Feel free to let her rip. So, anyway, music, you know, just kind of, like, took off in the way that you sorta, like, follow the wind a little bit. And, I mean, it still surprises me, to be honest with you. Like, I've had a lot of near misses, you know, like, close to the thing and it never really happened or, like, I got to do cool stuff. But, you know, I guess, I I would say, like, my pinnacle of I don't really like the word success because it gets confusing because I'm not really sure what that means.
The most success I've had is getting married and having children. That's to me is like the Yeah. Mega, to be honest with you. But, in terms of my work and my art and music, you know, I guess the biggest boon was that, was in 20 started in 2017 was when I got to, like, have a sustainable living. And it's really hard as you know. Like but the thing that's really interesting is now I heard this once from a Spotify representative in the way that they talk about the industry, but I'm what they refer to as a torso artist. Like K. I'm not at the top and I'm not at the bottom. I'm not gonna use anatomy to kinda continue that medicine because it could get a little weird, but, somewhere near the belly button, I think, or upper clavicle. Could be worse. Yeah. It's on who you ask. If you ask my mom, she'd feel like you're right up there at the neck. But but I, like so, you know, I I, like, I played in Butch Walker's band and then he produced a record for me, and that was a huge deal to to get to meet somebody like that who I really admired and and learned a lot from. Like, I I think Butch really gave me a lot of confidence in kinda getting away from my identity in Honey, Honey, and and having the confidence to to carry shows by myself and things that were, you know, it sounds silly in retrospect, but at the time, you know, when you sort of get sort of stuck in a, idea of yourself, sometimes it's harder to get out of. But, you know, I I worked with Butch, and I I learned a lot from him as a performer, which was really cool because he's such a fun person to watch play. Like, the just the abandon and and freedom that he plays with is is very unique.
And so from these experiences, I got to kinda keep growing and and eventually, like, you know, like, not have a side job and things like that, which was was really cool. But, again, like, a very difficult life, especially for a woman approaching her mid thirties at the time and, like, wanting family and wanting a partner and a husband. And, you know, I'm giving you the soup to nuts story because you asked. This is great. But, you know, in 2020 when everything stopped, I I had a record that was coming out that I had to postpone, obviously. I was supposed to open for Mavis Staples in Europe among some other really cool things I was very excited about.
But, you know, everybody had their experiences then, and and mine was really hard in the sense that I was 35 at the time, and it hit me like a train that, like, I'm getting older and I think I lost I missed the window. And it was super painful. And, you know, like, it's a weird lifestyle touring. Touring and never being around, and and I think too, like, people also have a certain idea about musicians being a certain way. But I'm pretty, like, in, like, the grand scheme of, like, the way people can be, whether it's, like, lots of alcohol and drugs or like, I'm pretty tame, and I also really value my craft. Like, I wanna do a good job. So, if you're a singer, you know, you can't get all fucked up at your shows, etcetera. Like, you know, if people pay money to come see me, I wanna give them a good show. So, you know, I've like, I have a good relationship with all that stuff. Like, I just thank God, like, never had problems with substances or alcohol or you know, I'm just here for the music.
But, you know, to that end, like, I realized that the things I wanted weren't really compatible with a touring musician as a woman. Mhmm. You know? And it's really hard to connect with the kind of person that I I wanted. And so that year, I I spent, like, kinda wrestling with god and with myself, and I had a lot of dark nights of the soul. And and I was still in Los Angeles, which is a really tough place. Like, especially if you've been there a long time and you're sort of, like, kinda surrounded by the ideologies of of, you know, Hollywood and and just, like, you know, the the just the place. You know? And a good friend of mine, Joe Rogan, called me and was like it was like the middle of 2020, and he had just moved to Austin. And he was like, just trying to bring all his friends. You know? And and it was a really it was a really powerful conversation. I was very grateful to to have it it had such an impact on me. We talked for 2 hours, and he told me, you know, basically, like, why are you there? Like, what's what's keeping you there? And, you know, you you have this idea about the industry in music of, like, this is where you have to be. This is this is where, like, this is where it can happen wherever you you think, the rules apply. You know?
And my first thought was, I don't wanna move to Austin. It's too hot.
[00:11:55] Abel James:
Yeah. Fair. Fair.
[00:11:58] Suzanne Santo:
But, also, like, LA was getting so scary. I was chasing vagrants out of my yard every day. They were stealing things and, like, there were riots, and I was genuinely scared. And, you know, a few things happened. I woke up in a lot of ways, wink, to to get my life, in order, but also, like, out of the noise of that place, of the politics, of their taxes, of everything. And I just bet on myself, you know, and I moved to Austin. And and Joe and Gary were and and other than these two really good friends of mine that I've known for 10 years were the only people I knew. Wow. So, like, I mean, I came in, like, full on brand new. Like, I didn't have I didn't have any, like, social circle to hang on to or and, you know, I'm not gonna call, like, mister and missus Rogen to hang out all the time. Like, you know, we're we're friends, but not like that kind of friend. You know? Right. So I just got here. I moved here the week of the freeze in 2021, which is 60.
Wild. Like and I kept thinking, like, did I make a huge mistake? You know? Like, I it was a mess. Like but like I said, I'd spent the whole year, like, sitting with myself and praying and and, like, finding like, really naming what I wanted, you know, for my life and the rest of my time on earth. And I think there was some relevance to that because 3 weeks after I got here, I met my husband. Wow. It was like nothing I've ever experienced in my whole life, like like lightning striking. And, I mean, he is the love of my life. And we got engaged 9 months later and then, married in 2022.
And I have a stepdaughter who is my first daughter. And then we had a baby girl this past or in 2023 in October. And, like, the fucking best. It's like, I couldn't have asked for, like, a better blessing in my life and just I am eternally grateful to Joe and his enthusiasm to bring me here because clearly it was for a greater purpose. And then, you know, music is great too. You know? But that stuff is like the thing about what's happening, I think, for artists like ourselves, right, is we're trying something new and we're breaking out of this old routine and an old structure that doesn't work. And so, like, that kind of applies to my entire life right now. You know? Like, just just the way I think it comes down to values, not to, like, you know, honk honk value for value, but it's true. Like, you like, what do you value?
You know? And if you value art and you wanna support the artist, like, this is how it's this is a great direction for it to go in. And to that end, I'm gonna hand it over to you because I don't really know how this works, but I'm so excited to be diving in and and figuring it out with these great people, like yourself and Adam Curry. And, yeah, it's like I I'm just like again, like, taking a chance on something and and seeing how this goes. But so far, I'm I'm just excited to to be here.
[00:15:08] Abel James:
Yeah. It's early, and it's incredible. And we have new people hopping into the v four v and Valueverse space, like, on a weekly basis now, like, daily. Like, Theo from, Wolfpack just came and, like, rocked out with a tune. Yeah. And, like, a bunch of other people. I know Theo. I haven't seen him in ages. So it's incredible that, like That's awesome. Some of these relationships are more real than the rest of the Internet. Does that make sense? Like, that was my impression. When I went to, Nashville and met a lot of the people, musicians as well as the builders in the space, like, I was coming from the world of podcasting, primarily. I've been a musician for a long time, but as far as, like, releasing music, touring, and trying to, like, squeeze money out of the music thing, it's like I kinda moved over to the podcasting and media side. Now that those worlds are, like, meeting up, like, I'm so excited about the direction that things could go in if enough people hop on board and kind of, like, adopt this different way of thinking about music that gives both the artist and the listener a lot more, control over their situation. Because, like, how much of a bummer is it that we came from a place where we had these incredible, like, musical libraries back in the day of records, of tapes, of CDs that were generally, like, your favorites or something that a friend had gifted you or, like, you had met the artist at some point or gone to a concert, whatever it was. And now it's like, if you don't pay Spotify or Apple 10 to $20 a month for the rest of your life, you lose all of your favorite music and your connection with that whole thing. And so Well but also, I think it's desensitizing
[00:16:43] Suzanne Santo:
people too. And Yeah. I'll just speak for myself. Like, I you definitely don't value things you don't pay for Yeah. As much as the ones you do pay for. And so, like, I'm kinda overwhelmed with the structure of Spotify, with the way music is introduced. And and there's something sort of like it's I don't think it's made me cynical, but it's made me, like, disinterested in a lot of new music and and artists that I would normally wanna follow and things like that. And I think in general, like, even film and television, like, trying to find a good show is is like a needle in a haystack these days. Right? In a sea of mediocrity, it's just like Exactly. Watching. And it's and it's, like, I mean, half of it's probably written by AI. It's totally soulless, and it's it's, like, not relatable. You know?
So to that end, it's like, I don't think I'm alone in that quest for wanting genuine life experiences, and and, like, I wanna watch genuinely good content and listen to genuinely good music. And, you know, I think there's a return to it. That's why I'm so excited about this platform is I'm I'm hoping that other people want this too. And it's not like you have to, like, lose your ass spending money on it. It's like it's just sort of putting in investing into into things that you care about. You know?
[00:18:04] Abel James:
Yeah. And then from the artist side, it's an incredible opportunity to actually interact with the people who love your music. Like, it's weird, but on Apple or on Spotify, if someone loves one of your songs, like, they can't really send you a note about it through Apple or, like, leave a message or a comment or share it with a friend easily or whatever it is. And, these newer systems allow you to do just that. And one of my favorite things about, like, figuring out this whole space because I was new to it just a few months ago. Like, I I uploaded my album, in June.
So, like, I was trying to figure it out. Yeah. And it was just like it kinda gathered its own power because what what happened was basically, like, without putting any promotion behind it, which is typically what you have to do as a musician. You put out music, but mostly you just need to, like, market the heck out of it. When I uploaded it to WaveLike, it took on its its own life because other DJs who had podcasts, they're just like, oh, there's a new song here. Oh, I kinda like this. I'm putting it on my show. Yeah. And then someone else hears it, puts it on their show. And it's like, man, this is how music used to work. Like, this is we're back, baby. Like, this is this is incredible. And Well, and then you look to those, like, DJs to in like, because you value their influence and Yes. You know, their taste. So you're like, oh, man. What's new? You know? Remember when, like,
[00:19:21] Suzanne Santo:
do do you remember when, like, the nineties or I don't I'm not sure how old you are, but, like, like, when you heard a new band and it was like you claimed it, and so Totally. Wanted like like, have you guys heard of zebrahead? I was trying to get the funk vibe for a little while. You know, that kind of thing. It was exciting to be the one that told people about music, you know, that, like, the indie side of things. But, yeah, that's so cool. I love the return to that. I think it's fantastic.
[00:19:49] Abel James:
And now the incentives are aligned as well, such that for a a DJ or a podcaster, they are rewarded for finding new artists and and breaking them or finding great old tunes and just, like, pointing people toward them. And musicians are, at least, potentially rewarded for putting out music that resonates with their audience as as opposed to just kind of, like, putting it out on Apple or Spotify where there's not a whole lot of interactivity. You just kinda upload it and then hope for the best or hope that some big algorithm catches it or some big playlist or something like that. But, like, it's stuff's not real. Like, all the labels own the playlist.
[00:20:28] Suzanne Santo:
Yes. Hey, Ola, like, it always was. And and even then, like okay. So my solo record I did with Butch. I'm not gonna say who, but there was a record company that approached me with a 5 album deal. And it was terrible. And it was there was, like, no advance, but they owned half my publishing. They would've Woah. And and all the masters. So but it was like, we're gonna pick you. And I'll tell you, I know someone who took that deal, and she's she's quite well known, but she has no money and she's owned and and she's always on the road. And she's very talented, and I she took that deal. And, like, I'm not sure what how good that exchange is. If the it's like if you wanted the fame, you got it. Mhmm. If that's what success means to you, then you got it. But you don't own your own music, and you're not making that much money.
And that's hard. That's a hard pill to swallow, in my opinion. And I I think I'd rather just, like, kind of figure it out on my own, you know, and, like, you know, it's kinda like the mob. It's just, like, it's it's very interesting. And and I'm not saying that if I took that deal, I'd be at the top. Like, who knows? But it was just it felt so wrong in in my guts to be presented that, and, like, I just couldn't do it. It wasn't right to me, you know, especially when I've invested in my record myself, you know, and they weren't even gonna pay me for it. They were just gonna be like, we're gonna take this. And then we'll yeah. You just keep making music.
[00:22:09] Abel James:
And we own that too. It's like they own your future. That's the gnarliest thing to imagine. For me, like, as a creator, like, it's hard enough, most of the time to create songs on your own accord. You know? Like, through your own power. If someone is forcing you to do it or telling you, you must do it this way, or, no. I know you love that song and it means so much to you, but you can't put that one on the record. It's like, oh.
[00:22:35] Suzanne Santo:
Man. I know. That that's painful stuff. And, like, yeah. That's another thing. You're just your artistic integrity. But, like, again, like, tip of the hat to, like, you know, pioneering and being part of the, you know, the wagons that are headed to this this new territory. Because, like, you know, at any point, I've got a whole record that I'm so excited about. And, you know, one of the songs is worried that that you have. Yeah. But, like, you know, I can throw that into the void of Spotify anytime I want, but I I'm just, like, I'd rather start, you know, panning for gold here and figuring out a different way. It's just, like, you know
[00:23:14] Abel James:
It's it's worth it, and it's fun to play. It's fun to be early. Like, who knows if this will work? But having a bunch of kind of, like, smart motivated optimists together in this sort of situation feels like the right thing to do. Adam Curry at the helm. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Somebody to listen to. I think we'll do alright. But I did wanna ask you. I mean, speaking of, like, being on tour and the musician's lifestyle, but wanting a family and wanting to be able to, like, have some sort of predictability in in the way that you're living, whether it's financial or just, like, being in the same space for a minute, the same location and not being forced to travel. What was it like? I saw some videos of you performing very pregnant, it looked like. First of all, what how is that even possible?
[00:23:59] Suzanne Santo:
What was that like? Awesome. It was so fun. It was kinda like my last hurrah, to be honest with you, because, like, unless it's it's really worth it, and it's either my friends. Like, I did a really cool tour with Gary Clark this past August, and I brought my baby. And it really, like, it really worked. Like, I got to have Rosie with me and and play and watch one of my dear friends play. And I love Gary. You know, we've been friends a long time. He's amazing. But, you know, when I was pregnant, I just I was so full of joy and excitement. And, you know, I guess in retrospect, it might have been a little crazy, but, like, I'll be honest with you. I was talking about this with somebody yesterday because they were at I played in Colorado.
It was, like, September 1st, and my doctor was like, you need to be home September 1st. And I was like, well, what about September 2nd? Make a deal. You know? And I was very pregnant, and I was at, like, super high altitude. But for some reason, it was, like, the best I'd ever sang. Like, I I had all the I had full lung capacity. I don't know. I think it was, like, supernatural baby powers. Yeah. That was unforgettable. I mean, that that was, like, one of the most beautiful weeks of my life. And then, you know, I got to have this just, like, sparkle child. But our industry is not set up for mothers.
You know? And my heart goes out to people that have to be separated from their families for work. You know, we're at a point where my husband's in entertainment. You know, he's a writer director. He's very talented. And, you know, we've actually worked together this past year, and that was really fun. I got to do some music on one of his together this past year, and that was really fun. I got to do some music on one of his films. It was an honor, and he actually, put me in the movie. So I've so I did some acting as well. Nice. Small small role, but it was a blast. But, I mean, much like what you're doing with your podcasting and with music and and working with value for value and and, like, just just going into this this new territory, I'm a firm believer in, like, your own design. You know? And so what we wanna do is work together. We also wanna start our own podcast. Like, we've done a couple my husband and I. Like, we've done a couple rounds, and it was really fun. We're still kinda honing in on, a formula for it or form rather, so it, like, makes sense to people.
But we just like, we spent so long you know, the majority of our lives not together, and, you know, it doesn't make sense to be apart. Like, if I were, like, filling up stadiums, we'd have to have a different discussion, but I'm not. You know? And you can make music from home and you can put music out. And, you know, in terms of touring, I guess I'm just really fortunate that, you know, my my husband can provide for us that, like, I don't have to go out. And I and, again, like, my heart goes out for people and women especially that, that have to deal with that structure of, like, either being very difficult bringing your children, you have to bring childcare and that's expensive, or you're away from them. You know? Mhmm.
It's not really set up with day care.
[00:27:13] Abel James:
Yeah.
[00:27:15] Suzanne Santo:
So but, you know, again, like, I'm very fortunate that that we can, that I don't have to do it. You know? Of course of course, I have that, like, part of me that feels like you're supposed to. Like, you're like, oh, I gotta get out there and and, like, keep building and building. But I think that's that's an old program that I need to reassess.
[00:27:34] Abel James:
Yeah. I was gonna ask you, like, what is your definition of success in music, especially now that you do have a family? It's a moving target. Right? My definition is that
[00:27:45] Suzanne Santo:
is that I'm making music that I I'm really proud of that feels relevant to be shared. And I get to have this life with my family, and it's it's so full. And, you know, playing every once in a while where I get to, like, get get the fire out and and get on a stage. And and and that is, like, where I do my best work. You know? I'm a live performer through and through, and it's really fun. And I love to share, you know, my soul with people like that, you know, in that way rather. And that's success to me. You know? And if if, like, I had some song that, like, went, you know, slingshot into the universe, that's so cool. But the thing that I feel is the biggest success that I have now is that I don't care about that anymore, and it doesn't hurt anymore. Like, it used to just hurt so much, like, seeing my Spotify quarterlies and just being like, I'd I'd get a lot of plays. You know? Like, there's, like, 40,000 spins on this song, and I made $6.
You know? And that that would hurt so much. Like Yeah. You're like, oh, this is just an act of service now. Like, you know, I okay. And then you sort of start to think, like, you know, like Jesus or something. Like, this is just like we're just doing the Lord's work here. Like, this is just as I'm just throwing it out there.
[00:29:05] Abel James:
But But it's it's like one of those things that you kinda have to do anyway. Right? Like, I would assume that you just you can't stop playing music even if even if you stop touring and and doing that whole thing, or pursuing it in a certain way. At least for me, I've tried stopping a few times, and I can't. It's one of those things that just needs to keep
[00:29:26] Suzanne Santo:
Yeah. That that's the thing that's the magical part. You know? Yeah. And I think that, like, whatever is, like, mainstream success is out there, to me, every it's it's very rare that I'm really moved by one of those artists. And and that's not because I have a chip on my shoulders. It's just because my instincts are, like, not moved. I I mean, I'm just like, if if someone isn't singing from that place, that that, like, god place or whatever you wanna call it or, you know, the other thing that that is, like, channeled through you, you know, it's it's probably part of an agenda. It's probably part of the, you know, whatever record company, you know, archetype you're fulfilling for their, you know, platforms. And and, like, yeah, it it gets old.
You know? Whatever's trending and, like and now I was in LA, and I I, like, did for a very short time, like, stepped into, like, top lining writing, you know, for pop music because I was just trying to make money. And it was, like, so soul crushing because, you know, they have these big forums where there's, like, thousands of music producers, and they're chasing after trending BPMs, trending melodies, and chord changes. And they and they're, like, like, racing toward it. And it's so weird. Yeah. You know? Like, it's, like I guess if that's how you wanna do it, that's cool, but that's just not how I wanna do it.
[00:31:00] Abel James:
And you can tell. Best of luck. Yeah. Best of luck. But at least when I've seen and I've never seen you play live. I'm really looking forward to it. But, from what I've seen, there's this, like, visceral nature to what you're doing. You're, like, riding the edge. It seems controlled, but could go out of control at any moment, whether it's, you know, vocals or guitar. And very, very few artists perform in that space. How do you think you're able to to get there when so many other people are buttoned up or trying to be something that they're not or just, like, not really there?
[00:31:36] Suzanne Santo:
Well, I'm I'm not really sure, you know, because I I've kinda always been this way. So, like, let me put it this way. I've never released music that I needed someone to tell me, like, it was good. You know? It was just like I knew it was. And even if someone else doesn't think it is, I do. Yeah. Oh, and and that's okay. You don't have to we don't have to agree on everything, but I wasn't looking for that kind of validation outside. I I don't know. Singing and performing have just always come from this very specific place, and it's like a language, you know, that I I guess no. I'm not trying to, like, sound like, like, I'm up my own butt here. Like, it just has been fluent Yeah. For me for a long time. And I guess it's a vulnerability.
I guess it's a capacity to just share so openly. And then, like, off the stage, that gets me in trouble because, like, in the past, I said, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm learning, oh, you shouldn't be friends with this person. Like, you shouldn't let everyone into your life. Okay. Got it. Like, you know? Yeah. You know, boundaries. But, you know, on stage, there aren't really boundaries like that. Like, you just put it all out there. And sometimes it's really draining, actually. You know? Because you you come back from that, and you're, like, a little shaken up. Yeah.
But, yeah, I don't know. Like, it depends on what people want when they get up there or don't want or, like, it's kind of up to you as an artist to be like, what are you doing here? Mhmm. And I can't answer that for other people. But I guess for myself, it's like I was given something. Like, music always came to me in this way, and I I think it's meant to be shared. And I enjoy the closeness of it because it feels like love to me. You know? It it feels like moments of our humanity that bring a collective joy or healing or or or togetherness that, has always been really cool to me.
You know, one of my favorite shows or or types of shows that I've played over many, many years are when I get hired to play a town series. Like, small towns will have, like, oh, these are our Thursday night music, and they'll bring in an artist that nobody's heard of. And I would be that artist or, you know, Honey Honey did a lot of those things. And so you'd play in these towns. There'd just be, like, all walks of life and demographics. And and, like, everybody's just there for the free beer. Yeah. But, you know, you can see them having a great time. And so to me, that's, like, that's the thing that you're supposed to be doing. You know, like, oh, I got to entertain these people and whatever your life is like outside of this moment, I hope this brought you a boost or some joy or maybe you needed to fucking cry because I have a lot of sad songs.
And so that's, like, that's the purpose. You know?
[00:34:31] Abel James:
What about staying skilled in multiple instruments and keeping your voice healthy, especially on the road? How do you manage to do that or do you kinda treat it in seasons?
[00:34:41] Suzanne Santo:
That's a really good question. I treat it in seasons, especially now that I'm a mom. Like, I mean, I used to try to practice every day, and I'm like I'd be like, Mondays are guitar, Tuesdays are violin. And, like, I could maybe stick with that for a short time, but, you know, life happens. And string instruments to me are are kind of synonymous because, like, your muscle memory just kicks in. The violin is definitely the hardest. Like, I haven't played my violin in, like, a month and a half. And when I pick it up next, like, I should be alone in this house. Like, no one needs like, it it takes a minute. You know? It's a sensitive instrument. It's, there's no frets on it. It's sensitive to temperature and, you know, even just my own physical tension. Mhmm. So, you know, I have to practice that one a little more. But caring for your voice is something I I just got really good at over the years and especially when I was in Hozier's band because I have never sang that much in my entire life, and we would sing sometimes from, like, 6 in the morning to, like, you do, like, 2 promo or radio, and then you'd play a whole show. And and I I am so grateful to the, like, boot camp I went through in that band. I was a better guitar player after that. I I'd like to say that I wasn't a real guitar player until until after that band. I probably didn't play as well. Sorry, Hozier.
But, like, I learned so much. And I learned so much as a singer, just technique. And, you know, like I said earlier, I I mean, I love to have a cocktail like everybody else, but, you know, when it when it's the time is right and and, like, you know, you can't especially if you're a lead singer, like, you can't keep up with the boys or whatever if you wanna sound good. And I I care so much about my voice. I've taken speech therapy to learn how to speak properly and, you know, I'm probably vocal frying right now because I'm tired, but just being aware of how like, just the mechanics. Mhmm. You know? That that makes a big difference. You know? Just like you would, like, learning the blues or something, you know, or, like, versus classical. It's like, how do what are you doing with this thing? How does this work?
But, I mean, it's kinda like anything. Like, you take good care of your body in general. Like, be healthy.
[00:37:00] Abel James:
Well, how did you achieve that just generally staying healthy on the road? You already talked about, like, thankfully, that that substances weren't an issue, which oftentimes is, you know, the the thing that can really be catastrophic for people. But as well, I mean, you have to go long periods skipping meals, having only the wrong food around, or just, like, existing on no sleep, overperforming, like, getting burnt out. So how do you keep it together, especially in the face of so much uncertainty on the on the road?
[00:37:30] Suzanne Santo:
Well, it is certainly a young person's game. Yeah. Judging from this last week on the road, I am so tired. And I'm like, damn. I it's not like I used to be. You know? And and I'm fine with that. You know, over the years, like, it used to be really, really hard, and then they started, like, you know, like, you there's more Whole Foods in the country. And so, like, if you've toured, through the US enough, like, you kinda know where your stops are, and you know, like, if you're driving through certain parts of Texas for the next 6 hours, there's no food. And so you have to plan in the morning and and, like, you know, get your food for the day. And and we started I started bringing a cooler, but you do suffer. Like, it's you're exhausted.
You know? Unfortunately, when I would really, really tour, I would usually lose a lot of weight in not the right ways, you know, just because, like, you're well, I don't know. I would eat a lot, but I you're just moving, moving, moving. At weird times. Yeah. At weird times. Yeah. I actually always was really good about not eating late because I get acid reflux and that ruins your vocal cords. Mhmm. So I would what I would do was I would eat like a lumberjack breakfast, like, the whole thing. And and usually a big lunch and then kind of like the rest of the day with snacks and then nothing. Because I never really like, you don't wanna eat a huge meal before you play. But but, yeah, it is. It's really hard, especially now that, like, you know, if you wanna get into seed oils and all that stuff, like, you are stuck. But we're deep in the seed oils. Yeah. We're I'm deep in it too. And, like, I'm gonna be 40 next month, and I have never felt healthier than I do now. Like, we just we eat so well in our house.
We have good water. We, you know, cook our food most nights, and it's a blessing. And, like, just from the last week on the road, like, I've eaten so much shit that I don't normally eat, and I feel it, like, like, in my skin. You know? And, like, you know, I'm not gonna complain, but it is hard. It's difficult to stay healthy on the road. Yeah. But it's not like, I toured with this guy, Joshua James, who's, like, really talented and and a very interesting character. And, like, he had his own van, and he had this whole setup where he was, like, making his own hummus and, like, he'd bring his chickpeas and make his own hummus. Like, he just had a whole science, you know, and and, you know, you can do that too, but I wasn't that organized.
But it was a priority. You you realize that Yes. Yeah. You wouldn't survive otherwise. That when you're in a van, it's very difficult. If you're on a bus, you can do so much. I mean Yeah. I only did a couple bus tours, like, with Butch. And then with Hozier, we were always on buses. And so, like, you could have avocados and things, and it was just, like, really wake up and make your own coffee. And that was actually pretty awesome.
[00:40:15] Abel James:
Yeah. I hear that. I know you gotta run-in a minute, but I I do have to ask you about the social media becoming requirement thing, especially TikTok for musicians. Maybe you can just rant on that real quick.
[00:40:26] Suzanne Santo:
Sure. Yeah. I fucking hate it. I don't do TikTok. I, you know, I actually recently just deleted all my social media and then post when I have music stuff going on. But I've decided I I might need somebody to help me, like, rebrand the whole thing, but I'm not gonna really, like, post about my family as much. I truly want a return to my own genuine life experiences, and I'm fortunate enough that I can do that. However, I think it's terrible. I think it's terrible that you have to do all these things to keep yourself relevant and and, you know, you can't just be a musician. I used to love, like, like, making, like, skits and sketches, and and, like, it would come naturally because it was fun to do that. And if I feel called to do it, I will, and I'll just be, like, you know, putting something out there that's funny or, like, if I wanna play a song, it always comes from a place of, like, oh, I just wanna do this. I wanna sing for people, and I hope you enjoy this video. But, you know, it's like working for free again. And it's and it's not I think it gets dark really fast because it's really easy to become self obsessed when you're always looking at yourself and your your validation, and and I think it needs to stop.
I think it's really bad for young girls, especially, and I resent it wholeheartedly. And I would much rather spend time with my friends and loved ones in in real time. And if that makes me out of the loop or I lose work or admiration, I so be it. I think there's it's it's really, really bad for people. And I've seen what it's done to me. And it was a few months ago when all the stuff was happening in in the Carolinas after the hurricane, and I was becoming obsessed with it. And I was on x and I was angry. And my husband and I were having all these weird fights. And and one day, he said he just stopped me, and he said, I think you're going crazy. And I think you need to turn this off. I love you. This is this is not you. And I was like, oh my god.
And I I turned off. I deleted everything that night. I mean, I didn't, like, shut my accounts down. I just took it off my phone. But then I realized how much I was looking at my phone, like, getting up to pee at 3 in the morning. I was bringing my phone to the bathroom to look at it and then go back to bed. And even just within the 24 hours of canceling everything, I was just so aware of how often I picked it up. And it made me really sad, but then I got my power back. So my heart breaks for people that have to do it. I also think there are people that can do it for you and you can work with them and maybe, like, give that job to them and and try to live as as present a life as you can because life is so short and, like, machine time just makes it fly by. You know? Yeah. We're so right about that. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for yeah.
[00:43:24] Abel James:
Well, I'm so glad that you were able to spend some time with us here today, Suzanne. What is the best place for people to, find your music and anything else that you have coming out?
[00:43:32] Suzanne Santo:
Well, it's on Spotify. But, my new music will be coming out on fountain, and I'm around. I have a website, suzanne santo.com. I do have social media that I post on from time to time, Instagram and Twitter, and that's it. Oh, Facebook, I guess, but, you know,
[00:43:49] Unknown:
I'm trying to do. Yeah.
[00:43:52] Abel James:
Well, awesome. So excited to rock out with you at Antone's in just a few weeks. Thanks so much again.
[00:43:58] Suzanne Santo:
Alright. Bye.
[00:44:05] Abel James:
Thanks for joining us on this episode with Suzanne Santo. If you have a minute, stick around. We're gonna be playing one of Suzanne's original tunes called Worried, and we hope you like it. Don't forget, if you're using a modern podcasting app to boost in or send us a boostagram with your message, we always love hearing from you. And all these boosts are shared directly with the artists. On that note, I hope you enjoy this original tune from Suzanne Santo called
[00:44:35] Unknown:
Worried. I worry all day, all night. I guess I've always been in sway my whole life, worrying from sundown to sunrise. When the day comes, I function like a halogen light burning up inside I stumble through the day blacking out sometimes. Worrying is hijacking my mind because I let you take the wheel. When night comes, my free way of thoughts. I'll speed chase it where I am both criminal and cop. And I run myself in circles around what I'm not worrying about problems that I've got. Because I love you, Ted. Then you drive me crazy,
Introduction and Upcoming Events
Interview with Suzanne Santo
Suzanne's Musical Journey
Life Changes and Moving to Austin
Innovations in Music and Podcasting
Balancing Music and Family
Challenges in the Music Industry
Health and Lifestyle on Tour
Social Media and Personal Life
