Abel James Show

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Have you ever wondered why almost every single packaged food contains industrial seed oils, anti-caking agents, preservatives, petrochemical flavorings and other non-foods?

And why do so many growing companies that started as a healthier real food alternative ultimately sell their souls to Big Food? 

We're back this week with our dear friend, Anna Vocino, a best-selling cookbook author, actor, stand-up comedian, podcaster and founder of eat Happy Kitchen, a natural food company. She's here to show you how the food we buy in the grocery store actually gets made, and it's not always pretty. 

In this episode with Anna, you're about to hear: 

• Why nearly all of the products you find in the grocery store—everything from sauces, spices and dressings to cookies and cereals—contain sketchy non-food ingredients
• How to muster up the courage to start your own business without losing your mind or your pants
• How to achieve longevity in the world of podcasting and media, from a couple of OGs
• An optimistic vision for the future of human creativity in the age of AI
• And much more…

Read the show notes: https://fatburningman.com/anna-vocino-say-no-to-big-food-and-build-your-own-business-instead/

Go to https://eathappykitchen.com for sauces, recipes, cookbooks and more from Anna Vocino, and get her latest cookbook "Eat Happy Italian" at https://eathappyitalian.com/

Join the Abel James’ Substack channel: https://abeljames.substack.com/

Listen and support the show on Fountain: https://fountain.fm/show/6ZBhFATsjzIJ3QVofgOH

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/fatburningman

Like the show on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/fatburningman

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[00:00:01] Abel James:

Hey, folks. This is Abel James, and thanks so much for joining us on the show. Have you ever wondered why almost every single packaged food contains industrial seed oils, anti caking agents, preservatives, petrochemical   flavorings, and other non foods? And why do so many growing companies that started as a healthier real food alternative   ultimately sell their souls to big food? We're back this week with our dear friend, Anna Vecino,   a best selling cookbook author, actor, stand up comedian, podcaster,   and founder of Eat Happy Kitchen, a natural food company. She's here to show you how the food we buy in the grocery store actually gets made, and it's not always pretty. Just a quick note before we get to the show with Anna, I've got a bunch of live music gigs coming up as well as some other in person events, and I would love to meet you in real life. So I'm playing live music under Abel James at a few different gigs coming up as well as with SOB and the Dangs playing lead guitar and singing. And we've got a big show coming up at the legendary venue, Antone's in downtown Austin, Texas. I'd love to see you there or one of our next shows or one of the speaking events, conferences, masterminds, and all the other fun stuff coming up soon. So be sure if you'd like to keep in touch to sign up for my newsletter at abeljames.com.  

That's abeljames.com.   You can also find me on most social media under Abel James or Abel Jams, but mostly I look forward to meeting you in real life. So come hang out at one of the live shows soon. Alright. In this episode with Anna, you're about to hear why nearly all of the products you find in the grocery store, everything from sauces, spices and dressings to cookies and cereals, contain sketchy non food ingredients,   how to muster up the courage to start your own business without losing your mind or your pants, how to achieve longevity in the world of podcasting and media from a couple of OGs,   an optimistic vision for the future of human creativity   in the age of AI, and much more. Let's go hang out with Anna.  

Welcome back, folks. Returning to the show this week is our friend, the multitalented   Anna Vecino,   a best selling cookbook author, actor,   stand up comedian, cohost of the Fitness Confidential podcast as well. Anna is also founder of Eat Happy Kitchen, a natural food company   making organically sourced gluten free, grain free, and filler free foods with no sugar added. Her newest cookbook is a doozy, and it's entitled Eat Happy Italian. Hey, Anna. Thanks so much for being here with us. Hey. Thanks for having me. And by the way, look who else's name is on the front cover of my book. Oh, very nice. Oh, yeah. The publisher appreciated that blurb enough to put it on the cover, so thank you for that.   Well, having been there, I know how hard it is to get   real Mhmm. Good,   honest   blurbs from people. And so I'm I'm happy to contribute to, Thoughtful, positive blurbs. That's what we need.  

Or, like, try the recipes or something. Right? Like Right. Right. Exactly.   Oftentimes, the bigger a book is, the less likely it it is that the people who wrote the blurbs even read it.   Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. I like bringing a little bit of transparency to the the whole process. Yeah. I I know you do too. But Yeah. Before we get too carried away, we haven't talked about this yet. But I'm just Okay. Okay with you. I'm gonna fanboy on you a little bit because your voice is alleged   in all sorts of places, but especially in the video game world. I'm just gonna rattle off a few that that Allison and I found on your IMDB, but Diablo   4, StarCraft 2, World of Warcraft,   Psychonauts,   Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, Halo Wars,   the Star Trek video game. Allison even competed in a few of the games that you performed in, Splinter Cell, Double Agent, and a few others. I've played a whole bunch. I was really into StarCraft for a while. So good on you. I was the adjutant in StarCraft. So it was my soothing voice telling being the computer.  



[00:11:26] Anna Vocino:

I do a lot of computer voices. I don't know what that says about me as a person.   She's so robotic. Let's just have her do the computer voice.   Yeah. You know what? I'm playing now, and I'm I'm always obsessed with Diablo, especially Diablo 4. Yeah. And in the campaign, my voice is one of, like, the little side quests that is one of the first side quests that you hit in the in the and they make you run through the first part of the campaign, so I always I laugh. I'm like, oh, there I am. Oh, that's cute. That's fun. Now let's get past it so I can build up this barbarian and torch some shit. It's so badass. It's amazing.   Do you have a place Listen. It's a cool day job. Yeah. It's a cool day job. I will freely admit that. I don't think I'll ever stop doing it as long as they're having me. Yeah. You know?  

So and Elder Scrolls   I've done so many   characters in Elder Scrolls. And I went to go try to play it because I was like, I'm gonna try I did this big arc as a Khajiit, and I was like, I'm gonna go try to play this   so I can find my character. I'm gonna just grind through till I get there. And but you have to do the multiplayer, and I couldn't figure out how to turn off other people talking on the PlayStation.   And so I just gave up after, like, 2 hours. Like, this is obnoxious. Like, I will do this.   But also, I'm so old, I couldn't figure out how to turn off people talking. So that's on me.  

[00:15:10] Abel James:

I hear that. But that all goes so you have, a very interesting   day job, at least to a lot of people from the outside in. Yeah. And then you have   all of these passion projects that you've been working on for more than a decade. I would love to talk to you a little bit about   where did your courage come from to kinda strike out on your own, especially with these creative projects or the ones that aren't, like, money first projects.   Right? How do you get the courage to do that? And, also, how do you Yeah. Persevere? And when do you know how to kinda, like, shift your perspective or shift your trajectory   so that you're not taking on too much at once?  



[00:15:46] Anna Vocino:

You know, that's a really good and loaded question because I feel like I've had so many iterations over the years   of what I thought was possible or, like, you know, you get the germination of an idea like, oh, you know what I really wanna do? Like, with with voice over, for example, years ago I mean, who doesn't like to do the funny voices. Right? But then I was like, but I actually really wanna do this   and I am very much the methodical. I will research how to do something to the best of my ability, but then you gotta go out and and mix it up and do it. You gotta study with the right people. You gotta practice. You gotta and I always thought to myself, I was like, well, I'm just somebody who kinda like with this mid Atlantic nasal voice with maybe a little bit of a southern twang because I grew up half in Alabama and half in DC.   And so I was like, I don't know if somebody like me can you know, I don't I don't have that kinda, like, voice. You know?  

And I think I came up at just the right time where the lean towards more natural sounding voices was happening.   And   adding to it, the my training is in acting and comedy, and so that helps tremendously. But   I have to be honest, I had a kid   younger than all my friends had a kid. Right? So at 26, I had my daughter,   and she's now 25, so I'm   51. I'm 51.   And so   at the time,   I'm still somebody who likes a little creature comforts. Like, I didn't wanna be a starving artist and also, like, my kids also starving. Like, that's not fun for me. So   I took a day job   as a political consultant for 8 years, and maybe that's too long to take a day job, but I needed to know that I could   work   consistently as an actor, and I've been very lucky to have such a long career.  

Now when you're an actor, you're sitting around a lot. You're waiting for the phone to ring. It's the least empowering   job   ever,   except for the parts where you're actually on mic or on camera. Those are the best times.   But those times are few and far between sometimes. And so   I had this celiac diagnosis. I wanted to learn how to make gluten free stuff, and and I just you know, again, it's like life kinda points you in these directions, and I can look back now with hindsight and   see where the seed started to germinate. But at the time, I was like, yeah. Sure. Okay. I guess I'll do this. And then when Vinnie Tortoric called and said, cohost my podcast with me, I was like, alright. Like, I you know what I mean? Yeah. I think I'm a begrudging   person who agrees to do things, but then I'm like, oh, I love this. So, you know, things kind of sprouted   naturally out of these activities. But as you know, you're a multi hyphenate creative person, and you just   sometimes things light you up and you go in one direction, and sometimes other things light you up and you go in another direction. But also, sometimes you have to remind yourself not everything needs to be part of your career. Like, I can love interior design   and remodel kitchens   and help my friends with their kitchens, and I don't wanna turn that into a thing that I do. But I love kitchens. You know what I mean? Mhmm. But that's not something you'd be like, hey, Anna Vocino is coming out with a new line of kitchen hardware. Like, I'm not Right. We won't be doing that anytime soon. Thank God. Yeah. And  

[00:18:47] Abel James:

that balance is super tricky. Right? Like, for actors or or musicians or whatever, there's always that idea that they're also, you know, bar staff on the side or they're, like, doing catering jobs or whatever it is. And If you beat yourself up, you're like, if I'm doing something else  

[00:19:02] Anna Vocino:

I mean, you and I came up in the time of at least I remember when I was little, it was unheard of to see a movie star in a TV show. Like, it was revolutionary that Julia Roberts did that episode of Friends. Like, it was mind blowing at the time to have a TV I mean, a movie star   do that. Even though Friends was like a smash hit, still to have Bruce Willis in Friends was like, what? Right.   So   it took a little bit of, you know, that, like, well, how do I marry this love of food with the fact that I am on stage telling jokes with the fact that I do voice over? You know what I mean? How do I marry all these? And sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.   But it's fun to talk about at least on my podcast with my friend Abel James.  



[00:19:43] Abel James:

I'm inspired. I mean, like, there aren't so many Anna Vocinos out there. I wish there were more. But oftentimes and and we can talk about this next.   You know, when you're you're taking on these big projects, building a company,   slinging sauce or spices or Yeah. Some sort of consumer packaged   good, A lot of people go on. It's like   that is something that a lot of people   wish to do someday or kind of, like, have this Yeah. Romantic idea about. Mhmm. But maybe you can talk about your actual experience of what that looks like,  

[00:20:13] Anna Vocino:

especially Sure. When it comes to managing cash flow, inventory, in fact, outside investment, all these things. You're taking a different approach than many have, and so I'll just let you lose here. Let's talk about Sure. How that whole thing is going on. Well, because I I think if anybody's out there listening going, you know, my salsa recipe is the best thing ever. I make these cookies that everybody says I should sell them at the farmer's market or I make whatever it is.   You know, we all watch Shark Tank and we see a number of great products and a number of crappy products and, you know, and and so we kinda see the the entrepreneurial journey and it is difficult   because making something in your kitchen taste amazing when you're putting it together is very different than scaling it up and making, you know, 10,000 of something at a time.  

So how it started for me was I had a listener   and cookbook fan   call me and say he lost £80 cooking out of my first book. So my books are all, you know, the focus is just like you, low sugar, low carb, no sugar unless it's a in a dessert recipe   and low carb etcetera etcetera. And I have a, you know, range. Some things are paleo, some things are keto, some things are carnivores, some things are just low carb. It's I like to give a range because I like to meet people where they're at and everybody seems to be in a different place. Plus, I'm the food allergy gal. So I'm gluten free because I have celiac plus another autoimmune disease. So I'm that's how I manage   my health. So   this guy called me and he said, I lost £80 cooking out your books. I'm like, that's amazing. And he says, I'm a food manufacturer. I'd like to I've heard you talk on the podcast. Let's make your marinara.  

And I said to him, doesn't everybody make their own?   And he was like, no. They buy it jarred. And now we know that's why Rao sold for $2,600,000,000   to Campbell's earlier this year.   And I was like, okay. And I that to me activated the fear of God. I was like, I can't   have the audacity to put my sauce in a jar and try to compete with these established players. Right? It activates all the doubts. Just like when you write a book, it activates all the doubts. Anytime you put something new and creative.   And I would say that if you paint a painting or take a photo or write a song or, do a monologue or put a jar of sauce out there, it's all the same energy that you're putting out there. You're creating something that's new in the world and you're asking people to believe in it and love it as much as you do, and that's a very vulnerable place to be. So I got, you know, I dragged my feet, dragged my feet. I don't know. Dragged my feet. I would like to drag my feet. I dragged my feet around for a while and then we finally got it going and then and during the pandemic launched one flavor of sauce. And now we have 5 flavors. We have 4 spice blends,   and we're about to launch cheese bites. We're getting into the snack category, and then dressings is further down the line because I've been traveling for 2 weeks on a book tour, staying at friends' houses who've been very generous. And everybody who makes a salad is giving me a bottled salad dressing, and they all have seed oils, and I'm in shock. I'm I'm in shock and shook. Mhmm. So dressings are next. Anyway, so making these food things and putting them out there. So cut to now where we are and we're, you know, we're equity crowd fundraising.  

Cash flow   is limited because we've chosen   to not just be a direct to consumer business.   I want to get into grocery stores because ultimately,   as Americans, that's where we find our food that we buy. Yes. Thank God people are open to ordering things direct to consumer and sure we might, you know, I'll get a 10 pack of this thing that I like from Amazon.   That will happen. But right now,   we mostly get stuff from the grocery store. So it's very important that the Eat Happy Kitchen brand is across that's my vision for it is to have it across the grocery store in different categories,   not just condiments, but snacks and anywhere where we can find   and adapt my recipes   into something that people it'll make their lives easier and they can trust that it's very clean and they can get dinner on the table quickly. Right? I wanna make the products that I wanna buy, basically.  

But from a business perspective,   getting into grocery stores is   crazy. First of all, I know we're gonna talk about manufacturing later and what to look for on food labels, but just getting into the grocery stores and every grocery chain is different, it's a behemoth. It's an old school way of doing business.   You have to sell your product to a distributor. The distributor sells the product to the grocery store.   Okay. Now there's a 1,000,000,000 different grocery store chains. There's independents. There's natural grocers. There's co ops. There's, you know, there's some natural grocers that have banded together into different groups and organizations.   Everybody   negotiates a different price on your product that you sell to the distributor for a very low price   and they make their margin. Right? And then the store's gotta make their margin, which is why you'll see a pint of ice cream   at Sprouts for 8.99 and then, you know, your indie grocer that you love or let's say Erewhon for, like, 11.99.  

Like, how can it be 3 to $4 difference? That's why.   So pushing food across the country is a logistic nightmare. It's very expensive. So the shipping alone is very expensive. But then when you get into grocery stores, they have slotting fees, which means you're paying for that shelf space.   They have, free fills, which means you're getting a case free per SKU that they take in. So if they take in all 4 of our regular pasta sauce flavors,   oftentimes we'll have to guarantee that we're gonna give them   a case of each flavor per location.   And if they have a   couple 100 locations, that's a lot Yeah. That you're eating with the understanding that you're gonna get reorders.  

So   I'm learning that, yes, we have an amazing direct to consumer business and we've strategically we've gotten in about 450 retailers now.   But it's amazing   and it's gonna require I've had to say no to many opportunities because it would literally bankrupt us as a company to be able to say yes to that.   Until we have the brand recognition where it's, you know, you get on the shelf and they talk about getting it off the shelf, meaning it's not just people who know you and me who know our work.   I need to have that brand recognized so that somebody picks up my jar of sauce and not Rao's anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like, sealing market share for the big guys is bonkers. Yeah. And this is what I'm learning. So another thing I learned too is when   you see, like, the the sale tag at the grocery store, you see it's marked down from 9.99 to 8.99. It's a dollar off. Yeah. So when you see that dollar off, you know,   temporary price reduction or the BOGO, you know, or the whatever it is that's at the store, That's not funded by the store. That's funded by the brand. So we have to sell it to the distributor for enough so that when we get those marketing dollars   that we want because I want new people to be like, oh, that one. I haven't seen that one. Let's try this pink crema sauce. That looks good. Oh, and it's a dollar off. Let's get it. I want that psychological reaction with people so that they take it home. They see how clean it is. They taste how delicious it is. And then they're like, that's the vodka sauce I'm gonna buy from now on. That's what you want. So it's a necessary evil to get people to try stuff, but it could bankrupt you as a company and then,   you know, as an emerging brand, if you don't have cash, you have no blood in the business.  

So that's kind of like a little bit of the struggle we're going through now. So I've probably made a few conservative decisions   that might be frowned upon in this day and age of, like, just raise 1,000,000 of dollars and spend it all and then go raise some more 1,000,000 of dollars.   But I do wanna be strategic and I don't wanna burn out. I've seen so many brands, like, where they got into 3,000 Walmarts and then 8 months later, they're not moving and they are done. And I don't want that. I wanna be sustainable and I want   to grow it strategically.  



[00:27:44] Abel James:

Because a lot of brands kinda lose their heart and soul as they go through this process. Right? Where where It can happen. Yeah. Who's, you know, the next level up getting into all those thousands of stores or whatever with all those skews   is saying, well,   you kinda have to use seed oils now. We have no other option for you. This is how it's done. Right. Right. And that is something that I will fight against until  

[00:28:07] Anna Vocino:

the day I die   or until I sell the business. But, however, here's the thing. Like, let's use the example of the recent sale of Ciate to Pepsi. I think a lot of people were very, like,   fellow food founders, like, hey. High five. Good job. Yeah. That's an amazing deal. I don't know what the what it's structured like. I don't know what they raised over the past, you know, because everybody's raised a few times by the time they get to that big exit. Sure. But   I   really have to believe that Ciate   would partner   with somebody in their exit   that doesn't want to mess with what got them to where they are. Yes.  

So I know that the economies of scale are a very big deal because I know that once we reach a £1,000,000 of tomatoes   every year, we're gonna get a price break that I cannot wait for.   I'm trying   to beat down the door of, you know, hospitals,   government   agencies, places that where I can   get larger   quantities made so that I can hit that million mark. Like, I'm on a foot race to get to a £1,000,000 of tomatoes used. We use these gorgeous organic Italian, San Marzano style tomatoes,   and I don't wanna change the tomato. I refuse to change the tomato.   So that means if I'm making that choice that I've got to figure out something else so I can get to that economy of scale.  

Several food founders who are doing really great work and doing that, but, yeah, I don't ever wanna hear the words come out of I won't partner with a manufacturer who says, sorry. We have to use seed oils because   you're just using too much extra virgin olive oil and it's too expensive. You know what I mean? Like, they I just couldn't we wouldn't we wouldn't.  

[00:29:49] Abel James:

We can't. It closes and it seeps the amount of doors.   Right?  

[00:29:53] Anna Vocino:

It does. It does. And so when you find a partner who's, like, willing to do that, then their goal because the manufacturers   are bringing this industry knowledge that I don't have that. I don't know how to make stuff in a giant, you know, 100   bajillion   gallon kettle. Like, I don't know what I don't know how to, like, do it, but I do know that I love when they pour in so much extra virgin olive oil and then they dump in an entire bucket of freshly minced garlic and it smells amazing. It's like super fun   to be there for that cook. But yeah. No. I I think that this is   what I'm hoping, and I'm hoping we can be part of this movement to be the future of food   that we can figure out how to have the economies of scale, but with nicer ingredients.  

And and subsequently,   maybe we'll have an effect on our corner of the supply chain. Maybe we'll have an effect on regenerative farming because we're using   this tomato that's so beautifully farmed.   I I know it sounds pie in the sky idealism, but, like, if I don't have that, then I'm just a cog in the wheel part of the problem, and I wanna be part of the solution.  

[00:30:56] Abel James:

Exactly. Yeah. Because the the system is broken, especially when we're talking like, the the bigger food system we're talking about, the more broken it is. And there are a few encouraging   things happening, like Joel Salatin being named as maybe being involved with some government organizations and that sort of thing. If you get the right people in,   some change can happen from the top down, and it absolutely   needs to. We can't do all of this grassroots.   And to your point, it's like, I've I've seen and you have as well. So many food companies kinda like started off with with a great idea and incredible product.   But in chasing that scale, you kinda like make a little compromise here, and then you make another compromise. And then your investors need their money back or a portion of it. So you make another compromise, and then all of a sudden Yeah. Company has run away from you, and maybe you're getting kicked out of your own company, and they're selling seed oil to to everyone just like It could happen.  



[00:31:46] Anna Vocino:

Listen, it could happen. That's why I'm just trying to be real sensible with it all. And I've always joked that if I just made, like, a keto cracker or a keto cookie or some BS,   I'd be a lot richer. Yeah. Because because I would just capitalize on a trend. I'd put some sawdust and some whatnot and this, that, and the other thing   and press it together. And as long as it holds, I don't care. I mean, how many things have you tried at the grocery store   and you've been like, oh god. I can't believe I just spent $7 on that trash   Yeah. Hoping that you'd find the thing. You know? I know. And listen, it's part of brand discovery, and we want innovation in food. I don't I don't want that to stop. I want people to make cool shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It might not be something that I'm gonna regularly buy, but I still want that ability. I I want a kid who has type 1 diabetes to be able to have some, a treat without jacking up their blood sugar. You know what I mean? Like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not something I'm gonna eat every day, but I want the diversity in our food supply to be out there. I just think that we could really stand to clean it up a bit. Oh, for sure. But you're kind of leading the charge in that sense, and you need to change the system around you with help, obviously. Other people need to With a lot of help. Yeah. Message. But Definitely   not an island. Yeah.  



[00:32:58] Abel James:

The precedent of basically every big food company, whether they're selling sauces or snacks   or spices or whatever, are putting   literally   non foods. We're talking about seed oil as an example, but we're putting gear oil into our foods, feeding it to everybody.   And the people as you level up as a as a food brand, everyone around you is telling you, well, you have to do it this way. This is this is the only way you get to the next level. I think we need to break that system.   And Mhmm. Like, the idea that you could put olive oil into a sauce   instead of gear oil is very appealing to me. And I don't care what the gear oil costs. Right? Like, I don't care if you can buy that for $3 and the real stuff is $10 because the $3 is a non food that should never go in anyone's mouth, kid or adult and school. You have a different set of priorities and values than maybe somebody who  

[00:33:50] Anna Vocino:

doesn't care or hasn't had the level of education. So part part of the trick of what we're both doing   is being able to give the information out to folks to   help them to maybe draw a different conclusion about what they put in their mouths. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So what else have you seen in the manufacturing  

[00:34:08] Abel James:

space now that Oh my goodness. Especially kind of, like, experimenting with so many different kinds of foods. I imagine there's no shortage of surprises.  

[00:34:17] Anna Vocino:

Yeah. I mean, right now, we're very early on in the r and d stages of mayo. I'm so excited to do a mayo because I just really   there's, like, one mayo that I like that's clean.   And, again, like, I just wanna be the solution that I need in my kitchen. I do get listen. Since we started making the sauces,   I have barely made any homemade sauce, and I've been making homemade marinara since I could turn on a stove. You know what I mean? So I'm definitely high on my own supply. But it is so much easier. Okay. So what I've learned   gosh.  

The things that you have to do   to make things   shelf stable, but keep them clean.   So let's use spices for an example.   Spices   naturally, especially if you live anywhere in the center or the East Coast of the country,   there's humidity.   So it's not even as bad where I am in California. But when I lived in Atlanta like, growing up, my mom would put rice in the salt. Right? To in the salt shaker to absorb   the excess   liquid. So salt can stick, paprika sticks. Garlic is very sticky. Think about garlic. When you do a fresh clove of garlic, it's very, like, it's sticky.   So   spices get sticky, spices clump, spices cake.  

That also means when they're blending the spice now you're not cooking anything with spices unless they're freshly roasting them at the place, which usually they're not, they bring them in just blend them and then they put them through fill machinery. Right?   But, they even will clog up the machinery as they're filling and they wanna use   anti slip agents, so something to make it slippery, to make their lives easier, right, as manufacturers and I get it.   But,   I think that we've become so   desensitized   to what the natural properties in food are   that our first   partner, and I wanna say they were partner because we spent 18 months in r and d   between   the 3 original spice blends and   also, we developed these canisters, which we're now actually going away from we're gonna do metal, like the old school, like McCormick metal tins. Cool. Don't McCormick, don't come for me, bro.  

But they look really cute.   So   it took us a lot of r and d with that and a lot of it was   not just figuring out, you know, when you're at home and you're like, oh, teaspoon of that, tablespoon of this,   you have to translate that all into volumes. So it becomes percentages and weights.   And because the percentages are what give you the formula that then you can take it to another partner and ostensibly is if they're sourcing   either identical or similar ingredients, they can make something because this is another thing that's important. You can't just make it at one place. Mhmm. If you put all your eggs in that basket and that manufacturer happens to close down or they lose funding or something happens or they kick you out because they got a bigger account, whatever. You need to be able to make these things in multiple places. That's very important. Plus, it's expensive. So if I can have my guy in Denver make it and I have my guy in Pennsylvania make it, then I'm shipping things from different places and I'm saving that transport money.   So   making these things with our original spice partner and and you pay money for r and d as well, but that's that's okay. Like, people should be paid for their time. But   they   basically said,   your barbecue dust is clumping.  

We're gonna have to put, anti caking agent in.   And I said, well, we have to reformulate then because I am the no sugars, no grains gal, and we're not putting any anti caking agents in. An anti caking agent would be like cornstarch,   brown rice hulls.   There is a grain free one now called bamboo flour, which I've not explored because right now I wanna see how far we can get without having to go there.   But just anti caking agents are in   every spice   on the grocery store   that has the ingredients that I mentioned. And that's   difficult   because,   boy oh, boy, we're so used to things not caking,   we expect it. And several times, they're not disclosed on the label because it's   not statistically significant enough.  

Again, it's the thing with the seed oils. It's grass. It's generally regarded as safe, and they can do this. I don't like it. I want full transparency on labels. Yeah. So that right there, I was told by a consultant, well, it's not statistically   significant, so you don't have to disclose it. And I luckily, my business partner hung up on them before I could, like,   turn into, you know, bitch on wheels. But I I was like, are you listening to what I'm trying to do here, people?   But, you know, then they came back with, well, if you don't put anything in, we're only gonna give you a 3 month shelf life. I was like,   okay.  

I guess we're not working together.   Like, I don't Yeah. A 3 month shelf life, you have to guarantee 75% of your shelf life. So that would mean, what, a 2 and a half months? Jeez. It better be sold in 2 and a half months. Like, I I can't do that. Mhmm. So, you know, you find another partner that's like, yeah. Let's make it. We can do this. No. It's okay if it clumps a little bit.   It is what it is. My audience gets it, but will the rest of America get it when we're launching our spices into grocery stores next year? We'll find out.  

[00:39:30] Abel James:

Well, there needs to be some option. Right? There needs to be something that's real on the shelf,   even if it's more expensive than all the other familiar options made by the big brands or whatever. We need something. So I I think it's really important that we all   support this because the overall business model, like you said, is it's kinda bizarre. I mean, it can work really well, but starting up a real food company   with the goal being to sell to Pepsi or Kraft or, like, whoever else, like Yeah.   There's something a little bit   that that could be interpreted as a conflict of interest there. Right? Or at least if those conflicts of interest pop up. It feels that way. If I sell my company in 5 years, everybody who's not an investor will probably say that.  



[00:40:13] Anna Vocino:

Sure. Right. They'll say you have sold out. And,   I mean, I don't know where I'm gonna be in 3 to 5 years with it. I wanna grow it huge.   If it becomes a legacy company, we can keep it privately owned, great.   If it's untenable and we have to get out because that's the economies of scale I was speaking of. Here, I I was reading an interesting article about how,   you know, a lot of CPG, which you mentioned earlier, consumer packaged goods, a lot of food companies   have been invested in and expected to   scale like tech companies. Yeah. And it's just it's not the same  

[00:40:52] Abel James:

thing. Not at all.  

[00:40:54] Anna Vocino:

Food companies can grow   and scale to a certain extent, but they grow.   Tech companies scale, if that makes sense.   Because it costs Because ultimately, I still have to make more jars.  

[00:41:07] Abel James:

Real Facebook has kind of invisible or virtual costs compared to making sauce,   glass involved,   metal pieces, shipping, cardboard boxes,   people packing it all up, growing   systems like that is a fundamentally different thing for sure than a tech company. Mostly because you just need even it's it's almost like the more money you're making by selling your sauces and the more exposure you have, the more people you need to work with, the more money hungry it becomes. And so Yeah. It's a precarious situation.  

[00:41:39] Anna Vocino:

That's why you gotta get your margins dialed in, and I'll forever   be trying to reduce our COGS, our cost of goods. Mhmm. So I'll for I I don't think there's ever a world where I won't   constantly be trying to figure out a way that we can, you know, save some money here and there. It comes down to, like, hey. We're paying 23¢   a label. But if we make this many labels, we're paying 17¢ a label. That's 6¢ a label. And you're like, yes. I saved 6¢.   Like, I'm winning.  

[00:42:07] Abel James:

Well, in percentage, you definitely are, but it's a lot of little decisions like that that that need to end up. But the scales Oh, my god. The decision fatigue is beyond.  

[00:42:16] Anna Vocino:

My brain hurts at the end of every day.   I don't know how people do this when they're on, like, sugar or, like, drinking a ton of alcohol. Like, I couldn't   I couldn't function.  

[00:42:26] Abel James:

What does your calendar look like in the sense that you have a lot of different responsibilities,   and I would imagine a lot of those are unpredictable, like, when you're needed to just, like, take 24 hours to put out a fire of some kind. But you have other work to do at the same time. Like, how do you manage all of that as an entrepreneur?  

[00:42:44] Anna Vocino:

Well, I have really great cofounders,   so that helps. I have a really great assistant,   so that helps. But we're a very lean team. I have some sales brokers who are on the East Coast, and they can help.   But, I mean, ultimately, you know, my voice over agents all have my calendar, so they know not to you know what I mean? They they look and schedule and and,   I I'm also very lucky because my daughter is grown up and out of the house. I don't see how people start a food company with a couple kids at home and it would be so hard. You could only do so much. Yeah. And I have to believe at the end of the day,   when I my head hits the pillow   and, I've, you know, doom scrolled Reddit enough to make my eyes sleepy,   that's my I used to read books. Now I'm just like, I have to doom scroll Reddit till I get sleepy. It's very twisted.  

It's very sick.   But, like, once my head hits the pillow, I have to trust that I got done everything that day that I was supposed to get done because we all have the you know, you know, when you run your own business, you have a bajillion things that you could do.   And some days, you just shut down. You're like, I I can't do it. Yeah. I'm gonna go do this other thing.   But, you know, you just keep keep marching forward.   I love it, ultimately. I I can't imagine. I think I'm unemployable in in a way that, like,   what am I gonna go do for corporate America? Like, it would be   I could record your phone system.  

You could be the And maybe help with some digital marketing. I don't know what I could do.  

[00:44:13] Abel James:

Well, what about the world of of podcasting, online media, voiceovers, and that sort of thing now that we've had AI out of the bag for more than a year, at least in a popular way with multiple people who aren't specialists kind of, like, using it to populate the Internet with all sorts of voices and faces that that aren't attached to real people or maybe are or impersonating real people. What is your take on on how things have kind of evolved in the past year and where they're Oh,  

[00:44:38] Anna Vocino:

it's not going anywhere. It's only gonna get better. What got me the other day was a YouTube algorithm showed me it was a a Joe Dispenza talking about something. And I was like, okay. Cool. And I clicked on it. I was like, wait.   That's not Joe Dispenza talking. That is AI Joe Dispenza.   But it sounded like it was like you know what I mean? Yeah. But it's only gonna get better and better. And it wasn't an excerpt of him doing an actual speech. Somebody had run one of his speeches through the thing and then   put their own script in, and then it poops out Joe Dispenza AI voice saying the speech. Yes. And then I was like and then out of principle, I was like, no. I x ed out of it.  

Yo. Listen.   I always tell my clients   who like, I I narrate these murders on oxygen.   I've done the past 9th season of killer couples, and it's just   couples who go on killing sprees and it's very it's bonkers, but I always tell them thank you. I'm like, thanks for not hiring an AI voice. Yeah.   Because you probably could, honestly.   So maybe it's the right time for me to get out of that business. But I just I gotta believe that we still want the human element with certain aspects where we have voice actors. Yeah. And   I will say for me,   this might be a dark   commentary on the state of things. But as a female who came of age in the nineties   in Hollywood   and chose to go the route of mostly voice over because it just felt better, I love telling jokes on stage, that has never bothered me. Working on camera, I always kinda had a twisted relationship with, but I was very lucky to have a lot of my elder states women,   older women in my life   to mentor me. Mhmm. And   by the way, seek out people 10, 15 years older than you. That's probably the best advice I could give, and ask them all the questions you can and talk to them about their life experience. Because,   like, even when I was, you know, 25 30, I would have women over 40 say, hey, just keep working your ass off. You eventually   you'll   get some financial solvency. It will happen. You know, and I would just feel I would hold that like this beacon of light. Like, one day I'll be able to pay my bills with my art.  

And it happened. So   I saw early on that sadly, the state of Hollywood women women age out of stuff even with the voice stuff. Women age out, different voice types become popular, different voice types become unpopular, the pendulum swings back and forth. So you need to do something to weather it, and I kind of noticed   as a society,   we don't seem to have a problem with older women   making us food on camera.   That seems to be a place that we're all like That's true. Yeah.   Yeah. Give me Lydia Bastianich. Give me Paula Dean. Give me well, I mean, Nigella is like an exception because she's just stunning.   You know,   give me Martha Stewart who's just a badass and having such a moment right now and she's all she's always reinventing herself. You know, we seem to be okay with that. So I was kinda like, well, food the food space is not such a bad place to be. I can still   use my voice   to nourish people through food. I can do that.  

And, I mean, it's not fun to age on camera. I hate it. But,   yeah, it's   it's an interesting place to be.  

[00:47:44] Abel James:

And the appeal of AI to the big studios or the people who are hiring for voice talent, have you seen that really become a thing where   it is already preferable to use AI over humans, or it's just so cost effective that they can't help themselves?  

[00:47:58] Anna Vocino:

Not for the big projects. Like, I   I don't even know. I I scratch track a a scratched is what it's called. I did the scratch track   for a big Netflix show   beginning of this year, and I don't think I can say what it is,   with a big director and, like, a big project,   and they could have easily used AI   to scratch it. But they   wanted   actors that they could direct and, like and what'll happen is they'll get the celebrity who whoever they cast as the celebrity voice   to do it and but my Scratch track's in there for the animators to start to, like Okay. Piece together the faces, the mouth flaps, the things that, you know, all the whatever they're doing.   Animators are geniuses. I don't know what they do, but they're geniuses. Yeah. So for things like that, there's always gonna be   the demand for real actors, you know.  

But, you know, I also   the Cooper Surgical   is a   medical device company that is like the biggest seller of gynecological devices, like for hysterectomies,   for c sections, things like that. So I narrate those things, and I always tell that client. I'm like, you you can use AI. Don't   because I need the work. Yeah. But, you know, I gotta pay the bills so I can grow this food company.   I don't take money from the food company, and I think that that's another twisted thing that we have in this society   Mhmm. Is that the founders are expected to sacrifice paying their own bills in order to grow the company. I think that's kinda crazy. Yeah. Eventually, I need to be paid.   But like I said, I'm very lucky that I have a good day job. I don't see how people do it when that's their only source of income. It is really hard. Yeah. It's really hard. Yeah. But, yeah, I think with AI, I think that the bigger project will always use human voices, but   YouTube, gonna be littered with it. Phone on hold stuff, I already hear that concatenated   AI and it's just gonna get smoother and smoother. Yeah. You know, on the smaller things. Even commercials, I heard a commercial that was so AI.  

Oh,   it was was it Spotify?   Weird. I can't remember. It it was Spotify or it was one of those title or Spotify. You know, one of those Yeah. Things that play the podcast as well as the music, and they have their own internal   ad company   where you can basically upload your script, choose from a a bank of, like, voices and pick the voice that will be the AI version of your script. Right?   And it costs nothing,   like,   nothing to produce a commercial.   And they approached me to be one of the voices,   and they're like, we pay $30   a commercial. And I was like, first of all,   no.  

Like, full stop, no. Second of all, I'm in the union, so definitely no. And and the union's been working to try to get people to sign agreements since and get them to agree not to lift your voice from former project and put it into a thing, but I know it's already happened. But, like, it was so crazy that they're like, your voice could be chosen for, like,   100 of commercials a year. And I'm like, so you're telling me I'm gonna   get paid $30 a commercial for a 100 of commercials, and then that takes me out of the running of doing that? Like, no. Like, it's but they can do it because the market will bear that. And,   you know, it's like you can only sell your house for what the market will bear.  

If if that's not something that's valued   and people agree to do the work because they need the money, then that's where things are,   Sadly.  

[00:51:27] Abel James:

Now   I wondered how this plays out in the next few years because, like,   I have no interest in listening to AI generated music. We have been, whether we like it or not, for years already. Like, Spotify has been busted   having fake musicians with fake AI stuff. Just Really? Churning out this oh, for years, they've been doing this. We've been doing this. I didn't know that. It's been, like, ghostwritten so they can pay $30 to some guy who's just putting out thousands of tracks. But he's got a different name here, and he's put on this playlist and all that. Also that they don't have to pay the actual artist making real music   anything, and they already pay nothing. And so, like, at some point, talking about pendulums, I do believe that this needs to flip back the other way. And one thing that I have noticed playing a lot more live music in Austin in the past few months is that, like, people are into it in a way that they weren't just a few years ago. Like, a few years ago Oh, that's good. People were That's great. Obsessed with the Internet,   and that was enough almost. And now, especially post pandemic, I think, after being isolated for a while, a lot of people kinda, like, experiencing   deep loneliness and and and bad vibes or just being bummed out for a while. And now there is such a magic to, like,   connecting with real humans again, whether it's listening to their voice, speaking with them, listening to music, or just kinda, like, being in the same place. And I do hope that   now that the the Internet is just kind of, like, blasted with all of this fakery, it's like   and you don't know that it's fake or you don't know that it's real. It's it's, like, getting harder and harder to tell. I think that there's going to be such a magic to the in person stuff, in real life stuff that happens Good. Next few months and few years. I hope this is what's happening. I already kinda, like, feel it happening. I hope that keeps accelerating.  



[00:53:06] Anna Vocino:

I hope so too because   I know that, like,   my union's gone on strike with AI being a really big deal. And right now, I guess, technically   technically, we are on strike with interactive, meaning video games. Mhmm. Although the games that I've worked on have all signed an interim agreement, I wouldn't cross the picket line or anything like that. But some of the production companies get it, but then others are like,   I don't know.   Like, we just wanna be able to have full access to your voice, and it's really an interesting place to be. I mean,   I guess, symbolically,   our voices are our power.  

So, like, why do we wanna give that over to the robots even though there's a lot of really cool stuff that AI is doing? But it's almost like early on with Google when you started to figure out, like, if you googled something and you needed an answer and it was all these, like, AI bots had written these blog entries, we were like, what? You're not saying anything. Like, you're Yeah. And and it was just, like,   trashed up and gummed up the whole system. It's gonna be the same way with voice and with video with music. And I will say, what is that one   Is it Sora where you can, like, put in lyrics and then pick a style of music and it will write an AI song Something like that. Within, like, 2 seconds,   which is a great idea for, like, if you wanna write write your little niece or nephew a crazy birthday song or something stupid like that, go for it. But, like, is anybody using that to, like, actually write a jingle for their brand or write a song?  

Are they doing that?  

[00:54:31] Abel James:

They are. I know that in some corners of the Internet, my music is competing with AI music, and I'm not sure how many people can tell. The musicians can definitely tell. But just for casual listeners, I'm I'm not sure. And as that improves,   it's gonna be a bizarre thing because,   like,   I know not everyone does it this way, but when I'm,   enjoying art or listening to music or something like that, I'm trying to connect with the human behind that and, like, where that came from, you know, that story that they're telling, that expression. Right. And so, like,   if if a computer is expressing itself,   like, already, I have resistance to, like, being deeply affected by that. Because, like, what does it do?  

Do I really wanna handle the keys?  

[00:55:15] Anna Vocino:

I mean,   my daughter is a painter, so I feel this my husband and I joke. We're like, well, we're comics, and then we gave birth to a painter, and I don't know where it goes from here. Like, does she have a poet? Like, I don't know what's the like, but, I mean, I love art and I love painters and I love painting. I love that world and I love that medium.   And,   again, you could just put an AI   something and then they come up with some abstract expressionist computer generated   thing.   And,   you know, but you don't have a story behind it. Mhmm. Part of the cool thing about going and looking at art is you learn about the artist. You learn what they're going through. You learn what inspired the work. Like, you learn the process. Like,   I guess it's it's gonna be we're gonna find out how much we as a society value these things Yeah. Over the next   10 years.  

But I would love for them to continue to use AI for medical diagnosis stuff,   for research and information,   for all that, like, please don't stop putting all of the data in so that maybe AI can suggest some sort   of cure or   diagnosis that the doctors the team of doctors hadn't thought of. I love that. Mhmm.   But for art, yikes.  

[00:56:32] Abel James:

Yikes. There's going to be some sort of reckoning at at some point. There's gotta be. What that looks like. But Mhmm. The artists out there just keep on cruising. Keep on do I think Yeah. Do it. Just   in some ways because there's so much distraction and a lot of people are just kind of absorbed in their devices. We're all guilty of that in some ways. But those of us who have also built the the practice   of a hobby or an art or something that you can build upon, you know, like, whether it's learning how to act   or learning a musical instrument or learning how to draw,   it seems like there are a lot fewer people out there really dedicating hours of every day to building those skills. So the people who do and persevere, I think will really stand out in the future, especially maybe not so much on the internet when AI is good enough to fake being human   across the board, which it's almost there, but not quite yet. But in person, like, I don't think we're gonna be hanging out with AI robots anytime soon, like, them taking all the rest of our jobs. So Yeah. No. They they won't be fun at parties. Uniquely human aspects, I think, is gonna be   essential to our,   survival in a lot of ways. Certainly, our mental fortitude as a population or as creative people. You need to keep creating. Otherwise, you go insane. Or maybe it's just me.  



[00:57:46] Anna Vocino:

I think so. I think it it adds a level of,   getting the things in your head out of you   and and making something is very important.   Although, I will say, I think my TikTok algorithm knows me pretty well because,   it's a lot of, like,   people   making art   and, you know, stuff that I can't do at all. Cake decorating, calligraphy, I love it all. Keep doing it, folks. Keep go keep putting it on TikTok because you got me. I will cheer you on till the cows come home.   I don't know what you do with it or how you make money off of it, but I hope you make all the money off of it. But keep doing your cake decorating.   I'm obsessed. I can't do that shit. I can't even eat cake.  



[00:58:27] Abel James:

Talk about art. I mean,   some of those cookies and cakes are are next level. I know.  

[00:58:31] Anna Vocino:

They're really good.  

[00:58:34] Abel James:

I hope they're not AI. They're probably Sucker Band. So you've been podcasting with Vinny for many moons now.  

[00:58:40] Anna Vocino:

And Yeah. Well over 2,008. And before that, producing podcasts since 2,008.  

[00:58:46] Abel James:

Was it 2,008?   Mhmm. What have you seen in the past few years changing in the world of podcasting and where do you think it's gonna go?  

[00:58:56] Anna Vocino:

I mean,   there's gonna be always gonna be folks like you and me just   still wanted to get our message out there, still wanted to talk to cool people.   You know,   I talked to you on my substack. I've talked to several people on my substack, but I don't do it as a regular thing. I do it when I have an inspired conversation   with somebody that I really wanna talk to.   You know, there is podfade.   Podfade is real.   And I think   to have longevity in the podcasting world,   you have to constantly be reinventing.   So where it's gonna go, I think that we're gonna continue to get more granular, more niche   down. I think that there's always gonna be room for, like, the news   and, you know, current events and pop culture and that kind of stuff. And by the way, I'm a huge Bravo super fan. That's another way that I I watch, you know, Real Housewives shows, and that's one way I can turn my brain off for a hot second.  

So I make no apologies about I've loved reality shows since day 1, but it's the same thing. It's like everything goes in phases   because   it gets old and you can't just all be repeat, repeat, repeat. Like once serial came out, everybody started doing that.   You know? The things that I love listening to, the business podcast, the how I built this, you know, the interviews with people who've founded companies because I need to listen so that I can maintain my excitement and inspiration and learn something new to take me to the next level so that I don't burn out on doing this.   So I think that   we'll never get tired of storytelling.  

Storytelling is very important, and podcasting is our way of sitting around the campfire and   telling stories. Now it's not interactive. It's not like Clubhouse where you could tell stories then immediately hear from people,   But that's it's not gonna go anywhere. It's just very gludded,   I think. Yeah.  

[01:00:46] Abel James:

What about,   your apple crostata   and the fork and knife calzone? Because Alyson whipped those What about them? I mean, let's let's eat. Oh. You know? Let's go. Let's start with a start with a calzone because that one really surprised me. We had never actually attempted   many pizza attempts, and some of them have gone pretty well. But calzones, it feels like, oh, god. That's off the map. I know. So gluten, how are you gonna do that? And it's ambitious.  

[01:01:11] Anna Vocino:

Not only was it absolutely delicious, Austin made it up last night, but really beautiful and held together. I didn't need a fork and knife at all. Maybe we got lucky. Okay. But it was just the second person that's told me that they didn't need a fork and knife. I named it the knife for fork and knife, calzone or knife. I can't remember what I named it. Because I was like, you probably won't be able to pick this. Let's be honest. Okay?   But here, some people have told me they have. So I'm really I'm proud of you. I'm proud of Alyson, not you. You didn't make it. Alyson did it.   Yeah. No. It's basically a a variation on my low carb pizza crust. It's in my first book, which is also in this book. I've written so many Italian recipes.  

So this this book was a challenge because I wanted to make sure that I I didn't wanna not include my classics that are like my heritage, you know. But then I wanted to add a lot more fresh wonderful things. And and there's a big distinction between Italian   food   and Italian American food. Mhmm. And this book has both because we have that   association. But, like,   there's not a you're not gonna go to Italy and have a chicken parm. But trust me, you wanna make a chicken parm. Like, it's really good.   So, yeah, the knife and fork calzone   is a variation that I got to work, and I think it's more about the technique of how you roll it out and fold it over. Mhmm. But   we low carbers deserve to have a calzone. We do. We deserve it. Desperate. We deserve it. Yeah.  

Yeah.  

[01:02:34] Abel James:

Why you're doing so much good in the world making all of these delicious things for everyone, slinging sauce,   creating incredible video games. It's  

[01:02:43] Anna Vocino:

it's quite the life. Well, I'm not creating the games. I'm just I I just say the lines.   Let's be honest. There's there's some pretty kickass   writers and animators and developers   who are doing amazing work with video games. And and if there are any Elden Ring fans out there, I'm obsessed with the DLC,   and I still haven't gotten through it. And my friend's 14 year old teases me mercilessly that he's gotten through the DLC, like, 3 times, and I've still haven't gotten through it once. So  

[01:03:07] Abel James:

There is a huge difference between   the voice actors who are just kinda, like, calling it in in a video game. There's that's, like, usually what happens. But the ones that are well acted and with, like, commitment   in there, I get such a kick out of that. And the games that you do well   are better than movies. Certainly now. So much better. And so I have a lot of respect for what you do. And obviously the writers are fantastic too. But the performance is so important when you're trying to, like, feel invested in something and feel some sort of emotion or connection with the story, which is so important. Great.  

[01:03:40] Anna Vocino:

I I mean, I'm into it because I'm a gamer but also because I just love video games, like, as an art form. The only time I ever thought I broke my voice is you mentioned World of Warcraft. I've done several sessions for them, and Hearthstone and all the all the Blizzard games.   And,   I   they often bring me in to be a dwarf for World of Warcraft and I was a dwarf and it's always Scottish because that's that's the stereotype that we all have. Right? But it's a Scottish dwarf. But it was so aggressive and I was so much yelling and the only thing that saved me was the fact that the the session was like at 2 PM on a Friday, so I didn't speak for the whole rest of the weekend so I could let but that's the only time I ever really I thought I I was like, I think can you break your voice? Because I think I did that. I broke it. I broke my voice.   Oh, good voice. It was for being a dwarf on World of Warcraft, but it healed, and I'm just fine. And they've since called me in several times. And I just maybe don't yell as hard. If you're gonna be doing it wrong all these years. Any game World of Warcraft seems like the perfect one for that.  



[01:04:36] Abel James:

Mhmm. Well, awesome. And it's so much fun to talk to you. What is the best place for people to find, your eathappykitchen.com.  

[01:04:44] Anna Vocino:

Go to eathappykitchen.com.   Yeah. I'm all over the socials. I like to respond to everybody. I always say I respond to everybody unless you're an a hole.  

[01:04:53] Abel James:

But most people are wonderful humans, and I love talking to people. Words for the a holes here and there too?  

[01:04:59] Anna Vocino:

We we all get a lot loose from time to time. I'm gonna tell this. I haven't told this story publicly, but I think I'm gonna I'm gonna say it now. Yeah. Back in   on Christmas Eve of 2021,   I sent out an email   with my Christmas dinner recipe for prime rib and cauliflower gratin, which is basically, like, cauliflower with a bunch of onions and cheese. It's really good.   You know, Merry Christmas. Here's what I'm making. Here are the recipes.   Whatever.   And that was December 2021. That date is important. So   beginning of August of this year, which is 2024,   I received an email from somebody named Lorraine.  

I doubt she's gonna listen to the show.   And,   Lorraine said   and, yes, I do have this memorized because it's hilarious to me. Lorraine said,   this email was sitting in my drafts folder, and I realize now why it irritated me so much or something to that effect.   And then the next line was,   don't degrade   the birth of Christ   with a recipe for prime rib.   And that was the end of the email from Lorraine.   And   I thought that that was amazing   because,   first of all, I grew up I'm the daughter of a United Methodist minister.   And so when people come for me with a little pearl clutching, I always think it's hilarious because I'm like, oh, you're you're not gonna be scarier than the church ladies I grew up with, first of all.  

2nd of all, I'm very much of the belief, like,   hey, fellow Christians, until all the kids in America are going to bed with full bellies, I'm we're not gonna clutch our pearls at language. Like, we're not gonna do this. I'm not I'm not gonna stand for it. So I didn't respond to Lorraine. I'll have you know, but I did put a reminder in my calendar for 3 years 8 months   from the day that she sent it to me   to respond to her, just so we can stay on the same timeline. And and that might be the level of petty that I'm gonna bring   to my, Eat Happy Kitchen   formulas to make sure.  



[01:09:24] Abel James:

Bring the receipts.  

[01:09:26] Anna Vocino:

And I've not told that story publicly because I know somebody's gonna listen. They're like,   you did wrong. You talk blahblah Christians. And I was like, stop it. Stop it.   Knock it off.   We're all doing the best we can here, and I'm gonna send a by the way, isn't Christmas a feast day? Aren't we supposed to be celebrating? Right. Aren't we supposed to have prime rib?   We sure do. Close to the camera on that one. I got upset. During the holidays?   I don't Right? That's what you're supposed to do. That's the whole point. Anyway, I thought that was funny. But it was it was 3 years 7 months, and so   it burned a hole in the rain enough for her to send that email. I'm gonna I'm gonna serve it right back.  



[01:10:06] Abel James:

There's nothing like reading hate from a few years ago that, like, you missed or whatever. Like, that happens to me sometimes in YouTube comments. I'm like, woah. They were   really on point or completely off base, whichever one it was.  

[01:10:18] Anna Vocino:

You know, you were talking about soulless video game. I just have to tell this one more quick thing. So I did this game called Dungeon Siege 3, and I was one of the playable characters,   but they had no budget. And so we had to knock out 1800   lines in two 4 hour sessions.   And I was an Eastern European, like, a major I can't remember. Maybe I was a rogue or something. I don't know. Just vaguely Eastern European voice,   accent,   which I've done in   a ton of games   for the European accents. I do British accents, Eastern European, French, and Italian a lot. So   somebody wrote   they found   I think it was my acting reel at the time,   which was on YouTube at the time. This is probably, like I think I did the game like 10, 12 years ago. So this was a couple years after that. They found my acting reel. So it wasn't like they commented on a Dungeon Siege post or anything like that.  

And it didn't even have,   you know, my voice stuff on it. It was just on camera acting, and   it was written in all caps. And it said,   you play Katerina,   you dumb bitch.   Get a voice transplant.  

[01:11:23] Abel James:

Wow.  

[01:11:24] Anna Vocino:

I know. In all caps. And and I left it up because I was like, that's   hilarious.   That's how that person You can't get a voice transplant, folks. You can't do it. Voice transplants aren't a thing. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet.  

[01:11:39] Abel James:

But   I wouldn't do it if you could. I love your voice, Anna, and lots of other people you too. Bless you. Thank you. Anna, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. My friends. You know I adore you. Love to Alyson.   Hey Abel here one more time and if you believe in our mission to create a world where health is the norm, not sickness, here are a few things you can do to help keep this show coming your way. Click like, subscribe and leave a quick review wherever you listen to or watch your podcasts.   You can also subscribe to my new Substack channel for an ad free version of this show in video and audio. That's at   AbelJames.Substack.com.  

You can also find me on Twitter or X, YouTube, as well as fountain.fm, where you can leave a little crypto in the tip jar. And if you can think of someone you care about who might learn from or enjoy this show, please take a quick moment to share it with them. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.