Henriette Kress is a very experienced herbalist from Finland. Her website is a landmark in the field of herbalism, and she's also the author of several books on herbalism.
It was an absolute pleasure to talk to her, so I hope you also enjoy listening to our conversation.
About how she was introduces to herbs by her grandmother.
About going to the US to study herbalism at the Southwest School of Botanical Medicine in Arizona and how that made everything fall into place.
About herbalism in Finland and the most significant plants and herbs in Finnish herbalism.
About local traditions involving plants.
About which herbal preparations are most common in Finland.
About the ginger shots hype, the tea tree oil craze and other herbal trends.
About the legal framework around herbalism in Finland.
About debunking herbal myths and the danger of herbal books written by AI.
And lots more.
You can find more information about Henriette and her work on the website:
https://www.henriettes-herb.com/
Make sure to check it out, because It's one of the oldest and largest herbal medicine sites on the internet. It's been online since 1995.
Henriette also wrote two books: Practical Herbs 1 and Practical Herbs 2
🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.
If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚
🎼 music by Eva LaRuna
Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.
[00:00:00]
Unknown:
Hi, Wildling. Hey. I'm still looking for some more interesting guests on, European herbalism and foraging. So if you know anybody that would want to be a guest in my podcast series, please feel free to reach out and contact me through social media Wildplant Forager, or through my website, wildplantforager.com. thank you so much.
[00:00:26] Unknown:
Much.
[00:00:30] Unknown:
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for Wildlings. Just like you wildlings who want to transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular. But I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is. Is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why, for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you are ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild. Welcome, Wilde, to a new episode of this podcast. And today, I'm very honored to talk with Henriette Kress. She's a very experienced herbalist from Finland, and her website is like a landmark in the field of herbalism. Since 1995, she's the author of several herbal books that have been translated in Swedish and in English. Welcome, Henriett. I'm really honored that you're in my podcast.
[00:02:38] Unknown:
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
[00:02:41] Unknown:
So, on your website, I have been reading, and by the way, I love how it says, welcome to the Bark site. I read that, your first contact with herbs was when your grandmother took you out in the woods and showed you when you Crush the yellow St. John's Wort flowers, that it gives a red color. And so it says that, yes, I have been doing herbs ever since. It's been herbs ever since. And that made me wonder, how did the rest of the world react to that, to you being a child or a young adult that was totally into herbs? Like, did they think you were some kind of weirdo or a witchy person?
Or was it considered quite all right?
[00:03:28] Unknown:
It Was totally normal. we were out in the countryside, and, some people went out to do sports, and some people just gamed, or whatever, read or whatever. And I went, into the fields and meadows with my botanic books to see what plant this is and which plant is that. And then I picked some and tasted, some. And it was totally all right.
[00:03:54] Unknown:
Nice. So everybody was just cool about it?
[00:03:57] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was part of the. What I do. And then, when I got older and, there was no real classes, for herbalism when I had to choose a profession. So I went with mercantile things. And then I went to the Helsinki school of economics. And then I was, in business for a while, and it got so boring. And then I said to people that I'm, going to study, to be a herbalist. They said, ah, ah, that's just a book. You can't do that. It's nonsense. You have a career. You should continue with that.
[00:04:42] Unknown:
But nevertheless, you made your own decision to pursue the herbalism?
[00:04:48] Unknown:
Yes, yes. The interesting thing is I told my grandma before I left my job that I would, be going to study herbalism. And she said, no, no, don't do that. You have a steady income. You can't just jump into. And then after I had quit, my job and went to Arizona to the herb school, she said, oh, congratulations. Do what you love, do. Follow your dreams. I mean, the idea being that you can't change it anyway, so why not embrace it?
[00:05:20] Unknown:
So you went all the way to Arizona to her school?
[00:05:24] Unknown:
Yes, yes. It was Michael Moore's Southwest school of botanical medicine. And, I had been on the Internet, before then. And, I had a lot of herbalist friends. And then I said, yeah, I'm going to study with Michael Moore. And some people reacted with, oh, I'm so jealous. I want to. Yeah, when you're an established herbalist, It's a bit difficult to try to enroll in somebody else's school. It's not the done thing, but yeah, it was a great, great class.
[00:05:59] Unknown:
Wow. Okay. So how did you do it practically? You really went physically to Arizona for a while?
[00:06:08] Unknown:
Oh, yes, oh, yes. I mean, I was in business. I was a, finance manager. And because I knew that I would leave sooner or later, I had saved quite a bit of money.
[00:06:19] Unknown:
Right.
[00:06:20] Unknown:
Yeah, it paid well. So, ah, then I booked a plane and found a place to stay and found out how to get from, I think it was San Francisco to Tucson to Bisbee. It was interesting, and it Was so nice. Everything just worked and everything just fell into place and. It was great.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
Nice.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
And it's a nice place. Arizona.
[00:06:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I've never been there, but I've seen the pictures.
[00:06:55] Unknown:
Yeah, the plants are great.
[00:06:57] Unknown:
Okay. And are the plants totally different from the plants that we have in Europe?
[00:07:03] Unknown:
About 20% are exactly the same, but 20% are totally different. And the remaining plants, you have approximations here.
[00:07:13] Unknown:
So I was wondering today, when you live in Finland and you want to become a herbalist, is there like a herbalism school now in Finland? Is it like a formal education or how do you become a herbalist in Finland?
[00:07:31] Unknown:
Nowadays we are quite lucky in that you can just call yourself a herbalist. But to be on the safe side, you have to do some schooling. You have to go, do a test about basic physiology, basic medicine, so that you know when you have to tell people to go to the doctor. And there has been a school for herbalism in Finland for I think 10 years, 20 years. it was a, ah, long weekend, once a month thing that went on for two years and they stopped doing it last year. And there is another similar one now that is also a long weekend for two years. Which one of the students of that school does? I went to when I was deciding where to study herbalism. I went to their beginners and it was a week long thing. And I kept thinking, okay, so tell me something new. So I knew that wasn't a school for me. So that's why I went to America.
I was also considering England, the uk but they were so expensive and the southwest school was very affordable. And somebody asked Michael Moore, of the southwest school why he didn't take more for his education. And he said he doesn't want a lot of BMVs BMW in his parking lot. Yeah, I think that's the right approach. You don't want rich people, you want normal people to m. Have a right. Okay.
[00:09:17] Unknown:
So I really haven't got a very big clue about what plants grow exactly up in Finland. So what are some specific herbs that are particularly significant in Finnish herbalism?
[00:09:31] Unknown:
It's nettles, of course. And then we have the rose, bay, willow, herb all over the place. We have angelica growing wild and then garden grown in silicon paint for instance. And all the mallows. Mallows are not wild here, so you.
[00:09:48] Unknown:
Have to grow them in your garden. Okay.
[00:09:51] Unknown:
Yeah. And dandelion, we have a lot in the arrow. And yeah, all Kinds of things.
[00:09:56] Unknown:
Okay, that seems pretty familiar, when I hear it. Yes, yes.
[00:10:01] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. We also have a lot of blueberries, bilberries, lingonberries, and then we have, Iceland moss.
[00:10:12] Unknown:
Oh, really? Yes.
[00:10:14] Unknown:
Yeah, I used to pick it and I used to try to use it, but it tastes so bad, so I switched to other things.
[00:10:24] Unknown:
It does have a very specific flavor. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And what do you use it for?
[00:10:32] Unknown:
Cuffs. but yeah, I like other things for cuffs nowadays. So, it has the lichen acids which make it antimicrobial and anti inflammatory. But I mean, if I can choose between using thyme and sage and hyssop or Iceland, I think I take the other three.
[00:10:58] Unknown:
Okay, so. And in Finland you still have like some specific traditions with plants. Like, maybe they are used in a symbolic way on certain anchor points in the years. So like, I don't know, for Christmas or midwinter festivities or.
[00:11:19] Unknown:
I don't know, for midsummer, at least along the coast, they raise the midsummer pole, which is, a long thing that's wrapped in birch. And before midsummer, they also do a lot of. What's it called? Lily of the valley Rests.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
Right.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
Because they're at that time. And they have such a nice scent.
[00:11:47] Unknown:
What do you do with lily of the valley? You hang them on the door or.
[00:11:52] Unknown:
Yeah. Decorate things with it. Yeah, it's nice.
[00:11:56] Unknown:
In Belgium we have this tradition with lily of the valley that we give it to each other on the 1st of May. So on May day, it's like a good luck charm. But it's. It has been dying out because of all the bad reputation about being it really toxic and you know, dogs dying from drinking the water that was in the vase of lily of the valley. So yeah, people are becoming very cautious. mostly in the south part of Belgium, people still do it, but like in the northern part where I live, it's. It's becoming quite rare.
[00:12:30] Unknown:
We have some other traditions, of course. For Christmas we have the Christmas tree. Therefore for Easter there's these Easter, willow twigs that are, decorated with feathers and eggs and things.
[00:12:44] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:12:45] Unknown:
And then you go from house as a small child, from house to house dressed up as a witch, and you say this, this, witch's rhyme and then you get candy.
[00:12:58] Unknown:
Oh, okay, okay. That's on Easter. Okay. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, what kind of herbal preparations are used in Finland? A lot. Like, do you do people mainly. Are they mainly familiar with like tinctures or Herbal teas or other things or are there like some specific. I know that previously, when I m was interviewing Mari from Norway, she was mentioning that, in the past people used like herbal porridges, a lot. So I was wondering if there was anything typically finished like a herbal preparation and also how like what herbal preparations are used most.
[00:13:44] Unknown:
in Finland it's mostly teas and in the shops you find both teas and tinctures. But, yeah, people use essentially only the echinacea tincture and everything else is used as teas. I think it's very good because if you make a tea for yourself and then drink it, you are involved in your own healing.
[00:14:09] Unknown:
Yes. And I also always have to think about Rosemary Gladstar saying that if you don't have the time to sit down and brew yourself a cup of tea, then this is something in your life you should be looking at. Right? Yeah.
[00:14:22] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:14:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:14:23] Unknown:
Yes. In America they mostly do tinctures or at least they did when I was there. And I was so confused. Nobody knew what tea, even how to make tea. It was okay.
[00:14:37] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really interesting how different it is in different areas of the world. I think like in, I remember in France it's they, they tend to use a lot of syrups made from herbs. So it's quite different in different areas of the world. Yeah. So how hard or how easy is it when you are looking for high quality herbs like dried herbs in Finland? Where can you get them and what is their quality? Generally.
[00:15:11] Unknown:
Some I pick myself and then I buy a lot from Germany and that is very good quality. And sometimes I need herbs. when I have run out of something in particular, then I can ask my friends in Finland. I have quite a lot of people who have been to my lectures and some of them contact me after and we chat and some of them tell me that they have this herb in abundance and then I might remember it later on and when I need it, I call and ask how much and when. And then they send me really good quality herbs. I like it.
[00:16:01] Unknown:
That's a really good system that you have there. Yes. And so like, if people generally they want to buy dried herbs to brew themselves a tea, where do they go to? Do they go to the pharmacist or to a health food store or the.
[00:16:23] Unknown:
Most common ones are available in the normal shops and then the more, interesting ones are in health food stores. So it's not too difficult to find dried herbs. But I mean, I talk About a, kilo or two then, right?
[00:16:41] Unknown:
Different. Yes. So when you say the most common herbs are available just in the shops, does that like include nettle? Can you buy dried nettle like even in supermarkets?
[00:16:53] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And chamomile. Yes.
[00:16:56] Unknown:
Wow. Okay, that is cool.
[00:17:02] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And sage and. Yeah, but I mean I tell people to go to the spice rack for sage and thyme. They are available in one liter, things.
[00:17:14] Unknown:
Yes, tetra pack.
[00:17:15] Unknown:
Much cheaper than to go to the health food part of the store.
[00:17:20] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. Wow. So this is what I'm wondering. If nettles is available in the supermarket as a dried herb, do people in general still consider it like a nuisance or a weed? Or do they, it's like the general audience in Finland, do they see it as a healing herb or more like weed that they need to get rid of or, or both or.
[00:17:54] Unknown:
There's so many people who go and pick nettles in spring and in summer and nowadays also quite a lot to pick nettle seed in fall. And then there's all these people who want a pristine lawn with nothing at all growing except grass. So those people of course still look at nettle at. Oh, there's a nettle. But mostly I think when I picked nettle seed, near an old castle a couple years ago, I had this big pillowcase because you can fit a lot of nettle in a pillowcase.
[00:18:29] Unknown:
It's very handy, a pillowcase.
[00:18:31] Unknown:
And then I put another pillowcase on top. But they still saw me walking away with all that nettle and instead of saying, oh, you can't do that. Oh, nettle. Yeah, my granny used to do that too.
[00:18:44] Unknown:
Wow.
[00:18:45] Unknown:
I love very healthy. I said yes, it was a lot of nettle. It was nettle seed so much. But yeah, I think that reaction was quite nice. I was a bit concerned. are they going to tell me you can't do that?
[00:19:04] Unknown:
Yeah, I can see in Belgium that the interest and you know, being able to identify the wild plants and knowing what you can do with them is definitely growing. But still so many people just want this. Well, it's like a green desert, you know, if you just want to have a lawn with only grass and. Yeah. but you know, the transition is going on, but we still have quite some work to do, I think. Yeah.
[00:19:35] Unknown:
My front garden includes nettles and dandelions and one of the neighbors used to say that that looks so unkempt, you should do something about it. But, not anymore.
[00:19:51] Unknown:
Right. That's a positive evolution. Or maybe they just gave up. Right?
[00:19:56] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:19:59] Unknown:
Yeah. So how is, her herbal medicine and herbal practice evolving in Finland? Like, do you see, some kind of influences from other parts of the world?
[00:20:14] Unknown:
Yes, probably. There are quite a few. we do have homegrown ones, and it has gotten, quite a bit more acceptable, to do herbs and, Yes, and I see the, outside influences too. Like, m. People tell me that they tried the Stephen Bunner protocol for their Lyme. I mean, yeah, I think it's, theoretical and too expensive, but to each their own.
[00:20:49] Unknown:
And do you also have the. The popularity of the, like the ginger shots, in Finland and the, Yes, shots.
[00:20:58] Unknown:
Not ginger turmeric, but ginger shots are available in every. Every shop, I think.
[00:21:03] Unknown:
Ah, yeah, same here. Same here.
[00:21:05] Unknown:
Yeah. And why not?
[00:21:07] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. There's this, there's not such a big problem with that, but just. Yeah, it makes me think about how, Yeah, and sometimes I. Sometimes I think that because these gender shots, they have gained such popularity over social media also. And also the whole. Which I think is a bit overhyped. I mean. Okay, just to state this clear, I love working with essential oils myself. I don't use them a lot, but like, just past weekend, one of my adopted chickens was sneezing really badly and there was no specialized fat available, so I just evaporated some essential oils. We put her separately in our garden shed and, you know, two days later, she. She's totally fine. She's.
She's regained health and she's. She's really. I was. I was a bit astonished at how fast she was recovering, really. but then I see on social media, I see this, people making their own laundry detergent, which is, of course, okay, but they put in like 25 drops of lavender essential oil for each load of laundry now.
[00:22:22] Unknown:
Oh, that's a bit much.
[00:22:23] Unknown:
That's like a whole lavender plant. The yield of a whole lavender plant with every load of laundry. I mean, that's not sustainable. You do several loads of laundry every week. How are we going to grow so much lavender?
[00:22:39] Unknown:
It's.
[00:22:40] Unknown:
It's a bit crazy to me. And people just think, oh, it's natural. So it's, you know. But, yeah, you know what I mean? Right?
[00:22:47] Unknown:
Yeah, it's a bit much. Yeah. Over the top. the tea tree oil craze also was over the top, but it has happily now, gone down a bit. And there also was this, craze about oil of oregano. Oregano, right. And I read up a bit on that and it was anything that resembled the center of oregano. So there were times and, and marjorams and whatever in there. Cheap things. But they do upset your digestion. So I think, I hope it has calmed down now. That. Great.
[00:23:28] Unknown:
Yes. I always find it very strange to see that the herbal world also has these hypes and these trends and these. Yeah, it's a bit strange, right?
[00:23:42] Unknown:
And then you look back and you see, oh, I jumped on that bandwagon, I better jump off.
[00:23:47] Unknown:
Yeah, right.
[00:23:52] Unknown:
And maybe you don't jump on the next bandwagon. But then three bandwagons later you're on it again.
[00:23:58] Unknown:
It's like, oh yeah, yeah. Sometimes you just have to say, hey, but like, wait, okay, so this is very trendy and so. But maybe I have to look into it first. Yeah. So I see people using lots of ginger shots and then I tell them like, hey, if you go to the dentist and you have to have a tooth pulled out, it might be better just to stop it a few days before you have the tooth pulled out because it thins the blood. But. And they're looking at me like, oh, really? It thins the blood? Like, yeah, if you take it like a shot every day, it's. Yeah, yeah. And they just don't realize it. So it's good to be aware of that. So when it comes to practicing herbalism in Finland, what is like the legal framework you said a little bit before that, you can just call yourself a herbalist, but like, if you want to practice herbalism, what are the things you can do and what you cannot do?
[00:24:59] Unknown:
We have a list of herbs on the pharmacy only. yeah, it's a pharmacy only list and we are not allowed to use those. unless we are a pharmaceutical factory who has gotten, permission from the medical authorities. Costs quite a bit of money, so we just don't use them. And you have to do the basic medical information course so that you know when to refer people away out. And I think the most important thing when you see clients as a herbalist is do no harm. So we really don't need any headlines that say that herbalist so and so has caused so and so ills in So. Yeah.
But legally there's no obstacles.
[00:26:00] Unknown:
Okay, so you're allowed to have a practice and to see clients and to do consultations.
[00:26:06] Unknown:
Yes. And if you want to do tinctures and, give, them to clients. Then you have to have an alcohol license.
[00:26:13] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:26:14] Unknown:
Yes. Okay. And everybody. Everybody in Finland knows that you are not allowed to sell alcohol without a license. So that's. That's a given.
[00:26:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:26:24] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:26:24] Unknown:
Okay. Wow. I'm just thinking about the facts. The. The fact that you can do consultations and seek clients, because in Belgium, that's, like, not really allowed. That's, Yeah. As a herbalist. So you can give, like, a, herbal walk and. And tell people about how they can use kind of herbs, but you cannot really, seek clients and. And, Yeah, like, if they have some problems and. And give them some advice on herbs that they could use. So. Yeah. And it. It really. It surprises me a little bit how in Europe we have all these different regulations. And also, like, I. What I've noticed with the people that I've talked with so far is that every country has, like, a forbidden herbs and then, a list of herbs that can be used, by herbalists.
and these lists are also in every country, very, very different. and like, in Belgium, there is now some whispering around that sage might be the next on our list. yeah. But the thing is. The thing is, I've really looked into the paperwork and the research about this and the thing. So it's because of the high thuyon, compound. But what they test is the essential oil of sage. And those are two completely different things. Like, would I use, sage herb in my food or in my drinks? Yes. Would I use it medicinally? Yes, of course. And of course not to nursing mothers or people with a high blood pressure. But would I ingest essential oil of sage? No, I wouldn't.
So it's just two completely different things, and they don't differentiate between these two. And that's just a pity.
[00:28:23] Unknown:
next day, we'll be coming after cinnamon cassia then, because. Yeah, yeah. They tried to prohibit, its use in Finland and got laughed out of the room because we have these cinnamon buns. Like, don't take it away. You can't.
[00:28:42] Unknown:
Yeah, it's like a signature thing. Yeah.
[00:28:45] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:28:47] Unknown:
Yes. And we need to speak about the elephant in the room here. But I do not understand why tobacco is not on that list, because we have, like, overwhelming scientific evidence that, well, you know, it's harmful. but it's not on this list, which I think is really fascinating and makes me think about. Yeah. Why it's not on the list. Well, probably because, yes, they can have taxes on it. It's clear. but it makes me think about is it really the well being of the people that you're after or what is it with these herbs that you put on the forbidden list?
[00:29:29] Unknown:
We have this other list in addition to the medicinal herbs that are forbidden and that's the drugs. And that includes then opium poppy and cannabis and I think tobacco is on there too, cocaine and all of those. So those are excluded as a matter of course. You can use other poppies, of course, in my doula. Ah, Puppy flower syrup for irritable coughs. It's quite nice.
[00:30:00] Unknown:
Yeah. So in our lists, I just looked it up before a talk just to make sure that I had it right. But like a plant, like ground, ivy is on the same list as lily of the valley and other very toxic plants. Yes. Which I cannot understand. I'm sorry, but I cannot understand. And I have to say I do use it. I, I eat it, I, I drink it. I love the flavor. and I don't understand why it's on the list. Yes, polygon. yes, of course. But you, you won't eat too much of it because it's also, it's an aromatic, but it's also a bitter plant. So you know, the flavor will stop you from eating too much of it.
[00:30:48] Unknown:
But you know, on our list we have pumpkin seed because it has been used as a dewormer. So you can't use it medicinally. But if you go to the shops, you can buy pumpkin seeds by the kilo.
[00:31:00] Unknown:
That's a crazy situation. Yes, that's crazy. Yeah. Also, if you're gathering plants in the wild like you do sometimes, do you see like an impact of environmental pressure or climate change on the native plants of Finland? Do you see that changing?
[00:31:22] Unknown:
Yes. Ah, the spruces are slowly going because we have this beetle that goes under the bark and kills them. And we have a lot more oaks now coming up than they didn't used to survive 30, 40 years ago. But now they're just growing. And we have some other plants that didn't used to survive that now are coming. But I mean, those are the big ones that you see. And of course we have a lot more ticks now which can give you Lyme because Lyme's disease because they survive the winter better and we have ah, longer season, without freezing cold. So they can get in another generation within one year.
And that, that really puts a crimp into the picking plants in the wild thing because you always have to check for ticks. Yes. I don't like it.
[00:32:31] Unknown:
And do you? Because what I notice also is how, So I like to write down what plants or what plant part I gathered when. And I can see that. So sometimes my students ask me, oh, and when is the time to gather this plant part or this plant part? And I say, well, I used to say, like, at the end of March, but now it could also be, like, the end of April even, or the beginning of May. So I see that, like, the seasons are fluctuating, and sometimes there are, like, extremely wet springs or extremely dry summers, and everything just changes. And, I even have, like, a Dutch colleague, and she has made a wonderful, calendar. so she's a drawer. So she made a wonderful harvesting calendar when you can, pick what wild plants. And she says, not selling these anymore, because I just can't pinpoint it anymore. It's so much fluctuating, and every year it's different.
And.
[00:33:39] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. this year, we were about two weeks, three weeks early on almost anything. But, it depends on the year. Normally, the mass flowering of dandelion is between, end of May and beginning of June. But this year it was early to. Yeah, really early May. It's not so nice.
[00:34:07] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. Then the line was early here, too. But a lot of things were later also in the year, which was kind of weird, but. Yeah. Yeah. I just think we had a lot of rain. And so, like, this year, what happened, like, with the elderflowers, there was just so much rain. You know, if it's, like, elderflower season and it's very warm, then the amount of time, you know, the time span in which they flower is just very short. It's like, poof, this burst of elderflower. And now, because of all the rain, they flowered for nearly a month. You know, they were just spurting between all the rain showers. And they think, okay, now it's a bit of sun. We can open a few more, flowers. And, yeah, it was completely different. but it was nice because you could harvest, you know, a little bit. Dan. And a little bit. Then it just was a completely different way of harvesting, because usually it's like, oh, elder is flowering. Okay, we have to harvest now, and we cannot wait before it's over. yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I really like your Facebook group that you have started. the herbal medicine group. Yeah, I really, really like it. I, was wondering, why you started this group.
[00:35:28] Unknown:
because, I have there Was there was a group of medical herbalism, and it was very good. And then they moved to, some other format. I don't know why. And, deleted the old group when they did. And, it was a few years. And I thought, well, I have made a group in Finnish for medical herbs and detests. So T000 is five years old. Yeah, I know. Five years old. It's like, okay. And I have made one in Swedish. And then I thought, well, I could make one in English as well. And, it is really good. I looked at a couple of other groups and, one had 30,000 subscribers. And the introduction said, absolutely no medical advice allowed here. So why do you have a medicinal herb group? I just wonder.
It's like, okay, why is that totally prohibited? Yeah. No, but, yeah, I think it will be a very good group and I intend to keep, keep it that way. So if we get too many people who ask, is that yarrow? Then they will get killed.
[00:36:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that you have made this group, and I really, I really enjoy it. Yes.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:36:57] Unknown:
So you have written some books like Practical Herbalism one and Practical Herbalism two. which was originally, I think, in Finnish and then translated to Swedish and to English. who did you wrote it for? What can readers expect when they open the book?
[00:37:18] Unknown:
I wrote it for people who want to go out and pick plants and use them. And about half of the plants in each book is, in the wild, and about half is, grown. And, it works out like this. The, English version is the half that is garden grown and the half that is found in the wild in the USA are different, but it's still half and half. Nice, I think. Yes, it's interesting. But, yeah, the idea is, you grow some and you pick some. Anders detailed instructions on how you do it.
[00:37:55] Unknown:
But.
[00:37:56] Unknown:
And because I have been teaching since, 1986, I think, not quite sure I know all the mistakes and I have done all the mistakes. And I have, had the same teaching, paper for decades. And every time somebody tells me, oh, that's wrong, I say, oh, thank you very much, and then I correct it. So it's been evolving. And, the books are based partly on, what I have used, for my lectures. So it's all tested and true and everything works, which is quite nice.
[00:38:37] Unknown:
Yes. I think that is one of the aspects that I also like myself. I always tell my students, hey, these are the mistakes I made. You don't have to make them you can learn from my mistakes. Of course you will make mistakes. It's part of the process. But these mistakes you don't have to make because I can tell you in advance that it won't work or it's, you know. Yeah. So that's nice about being, you know, having some years of experience and being able to share from that rather than just, you know, theoretically from, from books or from your education. Yes.
Yeah.
[00:39:13] Unknown:
And then people tell me, oh, but I tried that and it worked when you did it like this. And I said, oh, wow, thank you. And then I tried. It's, it's interesting. You get feedback and you try and you learn all the time.
[00:39:23] Unknown:
Yes. It's like a growing, organically growing thing, you know, it keeps, yeah, it keeps evolving. And that's really nice about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Because also what you have nowadays is these, these books on herbalism written by artificial intelligence, which is rather worrying, I think.
[00:39:44] Unknown:
that's horrible. Yeah, they just troll the Internet and slap, something together and that's it. a flashy title and a name with a PhD or something behind it and people buy it. It's like, oh no, don't.
[00:39:59] Unknown:
Yes. So buy your books from a really good herbalist. Yes. That you know and that, you know is a real person and that has experience.
[00:40:09] Unknown:
Yes. Yeah. Or even somebody who even has tried the herbs. Doesn't have to be a herbalist, but they have to have tried the herbs.
[00:40:16] Unknown:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And it's, you know, that is, that is a thing there. These, these books are just like mixtures made of what is found on the World Wide Web. But there is so much Quatch on the World Wide Web and so much trash and so much wrong things and especially when it comes to herbs. So you really want to be cautious when, when as a source of knowledge it's just not. Yes. And it does not say written by AI.
[00:40:47] Unknown:
So. Yeah, yeah. Because if it did, nobody would buy it. And these people live off two or three people buying a, print on demand book and then they slap another title on it and sell it again. It's horrible.
[00:41:02] Unknown:
Yeah, it is horrible. Yeah. And there is, I think it's really hard to, to put a stop to that. There's not really so much you can do except informing the people that these books are not okay to use and encouraging them to buy better books.
[00:41:20] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. There should be laws about it.
[00:41:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:41:25] Unknown:
I expect the EU will protect us on this as well. I hope they do. So well, on a lot of things.
[00:41:33] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. yeah, I would like that, that they would really step in and say, hey, this is not. We're not going to allow that. Yes, yes. And for those who want to know more about it, I want to refer to, a really good blog post of Chestnut School of Herbal Medicine that they wrote about, books on herbalism written by AI and it's really. Yeah, it's, it's really, enlightening to read, I think. yeah. So you also have like a herbal medicine distance course, right?
[00:42:04] Unknown:
Oh, yes.
[00:42:05] Unknown:
And it's also in, in Finnish and Swedish and English.
[00:42:09] Unknown:
Yes, yes, yes. How do you manage that and start to some. A lady from Lapland called me in 2010 about. And started to ask all kinds of questions about herbs and, and problems and things like that. And I answered and then I asked her. We had talked for an hour perhaps, then I asked her, did you actually want advice on herbs or do you want to become a herbalist? And she was quiet and she said, both, I guess. I said, okay, I'll send you some materials. And then I slapped something together and emailed it to her. And she came back two weeks, three weeks later and said, okay, so, how much do I owe you?
I said, what? And then I thought, yeah, well, she's up in Lapland. She can't come to Helsinki, at least not all that often. I expect there are other people in Finland who have the same problem. So then I put together a Hubble distance course and I wrote it. I mean, it's one part every three months. So I wrote one part every three months and sent it off to the people who had signed, up for it. And then after a while I thought, well, yeah, there's Swedish speaking people in Finland too. I think I should make it for them as well. Then I translated it and now I'm translating it to English. I'm on part four. I didn't before because there are so many, courses in English, but I, I think this one also has a place.
[00:43:49] Unknown:
Yes, I think that's the great thing. Just the diversity in, in the field of herbalism. And I think, yeah, everybody has their own approach and their own experience and their own. And. And yeah, you, you can learn different things from different people. So yeah, I definitely think it has a place. Totally. Yes.
[00:44:09] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:44:10] Unknown:
So what are the kind of people that follow your course?
[00:44:16] Unknown:
there's, three different types. Ones are, they are already therapists, massage therapist or shiatsu or something like that and want something else. And they will start using herbs in their practice. Some want to learn the basics about herbalism and, maybe start to practice. It takes really a lot of courage to start to practice, though. And then the last third or so are people who want to use herbs to help their family and friends. And, Christopher Headley said that if you do a herb course, if you attend a herb school, you should. The minute you learn things about herbs for cough, you should stop everybody who, coughs and tell them, use this herb and use that herb and use my number and tell me, did it work or not?
And I think that's a nice approach. I mean, you use it immediately, which give you courage to use it more.
[00:45:20] Unknown:
Right. I think that's interesting because.
[00:45:25] Unknown:
When I.
[00:45:25] Unknown:
Was teaching at herbalist school, I was actually saying to my students, because I see a lot of students that they graduate, and then they become. Or even during their education, they're becoming discouraged because they say, I want to share my knowledge with a lot of people. And a lot of people look at me and say, hey, I didn't ask for your advice. So I tell them, actually never to give unwanted advice. And I also. This is how I communicate it to my friends and family. I say, okay, if you have a cuff or a sprained ankle or whatever, and you want to have some herbal advice, I'm always available for you. But I will not just unsolicited give you advice, because I don't know if you're asking for it. So I think it's a really interesting approach to just instead stop everybody you see coughing and tell them what they can use.
[00:46:25] Unknown:
Yeah. And then, I've been doing this for quite some time, so I'm, comfortable in what I do, and I'm known, which means that, people do trust my advice. So if I see somebody, a friend's family or just strangers or, people on my courses, I might just tell them to do this or do that, or I might give them some herb. Somebody who is scatterbrained all over the place. I tell them, yeah, today we have this, and, tomorrow we are here as well. So I'll bring you that herb tomorrow, and you can chew it and see how you feel. I mean, it's.
And they usually help, which is nice. And then people. Yeah. And I get clients.
[00:47:16] Unknown:
Yeah. But, sometimes this is really what it takes for people to believe. And I, you know, believe, because it's not about belief, really, but it takes always, like, one experience where the herbs really have made A difference for people to see that herbs are actually working and that, that it's real and that it's not some kind of hoax or a hocus pocus, that it's real. And yeah, I think it's also a little bit of pity because sometimes people wait way too long to use herbs. So they say, like I've used all these things that my doctor prescribed me, nothing worked and now I'm open to be using herbs. So what can you advise me? And then I think, you know, you could have have tried the herbs first, you know, in non urgent situations, of course, but you could have have had less side effects and less by starting to use the herbs first and not as some last resort to, you know, to.
[00:48:23] Unknown:
Yeah, but people don't know that there's herbalists so they start to look for them after they've tried everything else. So it's, it's just part of being human I think. Part of. So you try everything the doctors say and then it doesn't work. And then you try to find a herbalist and then you try the alternative approach which might work about people who don't believe in that herbs work. I love to tell them to eat a bag of prunes when they have a cough. It's the best cough. But it's never for those who don't get it. It's if you eat a bag of prunes you will get the runs.
[00:49:02] Unknown:
So you will know, you will know.
[00:49:06] Unknown:
You can't cough because you will have things in your pants that don't belong there. I mean that proves to them that herbs work. And if they say they won't do it, then they know that herbs work from the start. So it's win win for me.
[00:49:23] Unknown:
Yes. And it's crazy because we all know that coffee works and, and that cannabis works and that ah, nobody doubts that. Right. So yeah, yeah. So what I like about your style is like you just said with a bag of prunes, it's like you're no nonsense approach. so like most herbalists have, have have well known about the, the constituents of comfrey, being water soluble. But then they also see that the, the comfrey oils ourselves also work and really work not just as a placebo, but that they work. And then I in, in, in this Facebook group, I loved how you stated. Well I guess the plant hasn't read the books that say that comfrey shouldn't work in a herbal oil or salve. Yeah, it's like that.
[00:50:13] Unknown:
If it doesn't read the book, it doesn't know it doesn't work.
[00:50:17] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:50:19] Unknown:
That'S the way it is. Have to teach the herbs to read books.
[00:50:23] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's one of the things I've learned from you is that, we have to talk about St. John's Wort. So when I graduated herbal school, in 2002, which seems like a lifetime ago now, and at that time it was hammered into us that we always had to mention how this plant interacts with her with, birth control pills. But then I learned from you, as it turns out, that this is quite different. You, like, you did a Facebook post about this that St. John's wort and herbal control pills. It's not what we have always taught it to be.
[00:51:06] Unknown:
Yeah, it was, interesting. In 1995, there was a program in America called, 2020 where they told people that St. John's Wort works for depression. And it disappeared from the shelves. everybody just bought it. And then 1996, same thing. In 1997, the, pharmaceutical giants started to look at each other. So what do we do? How do we discredit this herb? It's starting to eat into our antidepressant, profits. And then there was big, big headlines that two women in Sweden had taken St. John's wort and the pill and gotten pregnant. And as long as they don't tell the rest of the story, how many, women in Sweden had taken the pill without St. John's wort and gotten pregnant in 1997?
as long as they only tell one side of the story and not the other, I look at it as pure propaganda. Because I've since learned that, about 10%, 5%, a large amount anyway, of women on the pill do get pregnant despite taking the pill. And this is because if you miss a pill, you don't have protection that month. And if you have diarrhea, you don't have protection that much. And then it says on the pillbox 99.9%, effective. So every two hundreds, every 100. I don't, I'm quite sure is anyway. But yeah, so 99%.
[00:52:48] Unknown:
But it has nothing to do with St. John's Wort.
[00:52:50] Unknown:
Yeah, no, but then, some people from America, from the U.S. commented on that and said, yes, you are probably right, but I wouldn't risk it in this climate of no abortion available to a lot of American states. So, if you live in a place where you do not have access, to then I expect that you shouldn't take St. John and the pill just to be on the safe side. But generally, it's a non thing. It doesn't work that way. And the pill is formulated for madams with really fast metabolism. So yeah, if you're unlucky. But I don't think it has anything to do with Sancho.
[00:53:42] Unknown:
It makes me wonder about any other herbs that we have substantial misconceptions about.
[00:53:50] Unknown:
like some people tell me that mallow is toxic. In Finland there is this, ah, myth. And I said, what?
[00:53:58] Unknown:
Huh?
[00:53:59] Unknown:
Yeah, it's not. It's totally benign. And yeah, it's like what? And then in England you're not allowed to use whole slippery elm, bark, because whole slippery elm, bark bits have been used as mechanical devices to induce an abortion. So the whole thing is forbidden.
[00:54:19] Unknown:
Whoa.
[00:54:21] Unknown:
I mean, yeah, coat hanger sort of thing really. But the powder is allowed.
[00:54:30] Unknown:
I'm quite speechless now.
[00:54:32] Unknown:
Yeah, there's these interesting things. Yeah, I don't remember, but every now and then I have my distance. students send me in herb sheets that they have filled out basic, information and what they tried and what worked or didn't work. And there's one point called cautions. And they do put some outlandish things on there. Yeah. One was that nettle would induce abortion. That was on one of the other Internet forum. And I said what? Nobody else ever says that. And do you have references? and they had a website which had a link to a, study. And I looked up the study and the study referred to another study.
And the other study said that nettle is among the plants you use to give minerals to people who are pregnant. And in another sentence in that paper they said, and these might induce abortion, but nettles was not on that list. but debunking this kind of thing, I mean it takes time and you can't stamp it out because it's somewhere on some website anyway. It's like what? But if you see something really outlandish, just go to the bottom of it, ask for references. And then try to debunk it. Because it needs debunking.
[00:56:03] Unknown:
Yes, yes. Because yeah, herbalism is of course about the plants and about the people. But I think especially in these times, it's also a little bit about activism, about like debunking myths that are just based on nothing. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:56:23] Unknown:
Trying to make nettle. Yeah. No, nettle is very, very good for Pregnant ladies.
[00:56:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Crazy. So how do you see the future of herbalism in Finland?
[00:56:37] Unknown:
Oh, I think it's quite rosy. I hope more and more people seeing, clients. I hope more and more people are doing herbs for medicine. After the second world War, only rich people had access to, medications. So the poor people used herbs. And that means that, it fell out of fashion and fixed m it. But we have had a revival since 1970 about. So it's coming back, which is quite excellent. And growing.
[00:57:16] Unknown:
Yes, yes. I think it's the same here or pretty much the same here In Belgium when I was graduating from herbalist school.
[00:57:24] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
We had a class of 12 people and I think about three of them graduated. And yes, now the first year they have more than 65 people. And that's just in one local school. So it's really growing. And that's a good thing, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:57:44] Unknown:
The more the merrier.
[00:57:45] Unknown:
Yes, exactly. And what would your advice be to beginning herbalists as a really experienced herbalist with years, and years of experience with plants, with people, what would your advice be?
[00:58:02] Unknown:
Trust your instincts. be yourself. Yeah. Be yourself and laugh at things. You have to have fun doing what you do.
[00:58:11] Unknown:
That is some very solid advice, I think. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:58:17] Unknown:
And also, I have a text called, Wisdom for Beginners. I think on my blog. I think you can put the link if you want. And m. it says that it's a lonely profession and you don't know the outcome a lot of times. And you just have to think that they got all better when they don't call you after a month or two when they, Yeah, they got all better. I mean, a lot of my clients come this, today and then in two, three months. And then in two, three months. And a lot of my clients come now and then never again. But I might get calls or I might get emails. Oh, that worked so well.
So I just think they all think that. They just don't say because it's, you can't just think that they didn't get better.
[00:59:13] Unknown:
Yes. Then it's a whole different story.
[00:59:15] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. But not all do get better, of course. It's.
[00:59:19] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. That's the reality. Yeah. So where can people find out more about your work? Like your website, where they can. Where can they find your website?
[00:59:29] Unknown:
My website is Henrietta's herbal and it's henrietta-herb.com and it's, very, very big. It's very big. The front page Looks small, but when you dive into it, it's, quite enormous. And it's, divided. You can look for plants by Latin name or you can look for, pictures by. Yeah, that's also alphabetically by Latin name. And then there's the old books and there's all kind of things. Big, big site.
[01:00:00] Unknown:
Okay, listener, if you want to visit Henrietta's site, I think you should be aware that you need some time for this. It's like a rabbit hole. There is so much good information on it. So, yeah, you just need a bit of time. Plan ahead and plan a bit of time just to dive into it and yes, explore everything that's on really, really great website. Okay. Thank you so much, Henrietta, for this lovely talk.
[01:00:30] Unknown:
thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[01:00:32] Unknown:
Yes, it's really been a pleasure. And for the listener, I want to thank you for listening. I hope to meet you for the next episode. And meanwhile, keep powdering your nose with dandelion, pollen. Bye bye.
[01:00:45] Unknown:
That's a good one.
[01:00:51] Unknown:
Thank you for listening. Wildy, are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there, but for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Hi, Wildling. Hey. I'm still looking for some more interesting guests on, European herbalism and foraging. So if you know anybody that would want to be a guest in my podcast series, please feel free to reach out and contact me through social media Wildplant Forager, or through my website, wildplantforager.com. thank you so much.
[00:00:26] Unknown:
Much.
[00:00:30] Unknown:
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for Wildlings. Just like you wildlings who want to transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular. But I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is. Is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why, for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you are ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild. Welcome, Wilde, to a new episode of this podcast. And today, I'm very honored to talk with Henriette Kress. She's a very experienced herbalist from Finland, and her website is like a landmark in the field of herbalism. Since 1995, she's the author of several herbal books that have been translated in Swedish and in English. Welcome, Henriett. I'm really honored that you're in my podcast.
[00:02:38] Unknown:
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
[00:02:41] Unknown:
So, on your website, I have been reading, and by the way, I love how it says, welcome to the Bark site. I read that, your first contact with herbs was when your grandmother took you out in the woods and showed you when you Crush the yellow St. John's Wort flowers, that it gives a red color. And so it says that, yes, I have been doing herbs ever since. It's been herbs ever since. And that made me wonder, how did the rest of the world react to that, to you being a child or a young adult that was totally into herbs? Like, did they think you were some kind of weirdo or a witchy person?
Or was it considered quite all right?
[00:03:28] Unknown:
It Was totally normal. we were out in the countryside, and, some people went out to do sports, and some people just gamed, or whatever, read or whatever. And I went, into the fields and meadows with my botanic books to see what plant this is and which plant is that. And then I picked some and tasted, some. And it was totally all right.
[00:03:54] Unknown:
Nice. So everybody was just cool about it?
[00:03:57] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was part of the. What I do. And then, when I got older and, there was no real classes, for herbalism when I had to choose a profession. So I went with mercantile things. And then I went to the Helsinki school of economics. And then I was, in business for a while, and it got so boring. And then I said to people that I'm, going to study, to be a herbalist. They said, ah, ah, that's just a book. You can't do that. It's nonsense. You have a career. You should continue with that.
[00:04:42] Unknown:
But nevertheless, you made your own decision to pursue the herbalism?
[00:04:48] Unknown:
Yes, yes. The interesting thing is I told my grandma before I left my job that I would, be going to study herbalism. And she said, no, no, don't do that. You have a steady income. You can't just jump into. And then after I had quit, my job and went to Arizona to the herb school, she said, oh, congratulations. Do what you love, do. Follow your dreams. I mean, the idea being that you can't change it anyway, so why not embrace it?
[00:05:20] Unknown:
So you went all the way to Arizona to her school?
[00:05:24] Unknown:
Yes, yes. It was Michael Moore's Southwest school of botanical medicine. And, I had been on the Internet, before then. And, I had a lot of herbalist friends. And then I said, yeah, I'm going to study with Michael Moore. And some people reacted with, oh, I'm so jealous. I want to. Yeah, when you're an established herbalist, It's a bit difficult to try to enroll in somebody else's school. It's not the done thing, but yeah, it was a great, great class.
[00:05:59] Unknown:
Wow. Okay. So how did you do it practically? You really went physically to Arizona for a while?
[00:06:08] Unknown:
Oh, yes, oh, yes. I mean, I was in business. I was a, finance manager. And because I knew that I would leave sooner or later, I had saved quite a bit of money.
[00:06:19] Unknown:
Right.
[00:06:20] Unknown:
Yeah, it paid well. So, ah, then I booked a plane and found a place to stay and found out how to get from, I think it was San Francisco to Tucson to Bisbee. It was interesting, and it Was so nice. Everything just worked and everything just fell into place and. It was great.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
Nice.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
And it's a nice place. Arizona.
[00:06:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I've never been there, but I've seen the pictures.
[00:06:55] Unknown:
Yeah, the plants are great.
[00:06:57] Unknown:
Okay. And are the plants totally different from the plants that we have in Europe?
[00:07:03] Unknown:
About 20% are exactly the same, but 20% are totally different. And the remaining plants, you have approximations here.
[00:07:13] Unknown:
So I was wondering today, when you live in Finland and you want to become a herbalist, is there like a herbalism school now in Finland? Is it like a formal education or how do you become a herbalist in Finland?
[00:07:31] Unknown:
Nowadays we are quite lucky in that you can just call yourself a herbalist. But to be on the safe side, you have to do some schooling. You have to go, do a test about basic physiology, basic medicine, so that you know when you have to tell people to go to the doctor. And there has been a school for herbalism in Finland for I think 10 years, 20 years. it was a, ah, long weekend, once a month thing that went on for two years and they stopped doing it last year. And there is another similar one now that is also a long weekend for two years. Which one of the students of that school does? I went to when I was deciding where to study herbalism. I went to their beginners and it was a week long thing. And I kept thinking, okay, so tell me something new. So I knew that wasn't a school for me. So that's why I went to America.
I was also considering England, the uk but they were so expensive and the southwest school was very affordable. And somebody asked Michael Moore, of the southwest school why he didn't take more for his education. And he said he doesn't want a lot of BMVs BMW in his parking lot. Yeah, I think that's the right approach. You don't want rich people, you want normal people to m. Have a right. Okay.
[00:09:17] Unknown:
So I really haven't got a very big clue about what plants grow exactly up in Finland. So what are some specific herbs that are particularly significant in Finnish herbalism?
[00:09:31] Unknown:
It's nettles, of course. And then we have the rose, bay, willow, herb all over the place. We have angelica growing wild and then garden grown in silicon paint for instance. And all the mallows. Mallows are not wild here, so you.
[00:09:48] Unknown:
Have to grow them in your garden. Okay.
[00:09:51] Unknown:
Yeah. And dandelion, we have a lot in the arrow. And yeah, all Kinds of things.
[00:09:56] Unknown:
Okay, that seems pretty familiar, when I hear it. Yes, yes.
[00:10:01] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. We also have a lot of blueberries, bilberries, lingonberries, and then we have, Iceland moss.
[00:10:12] Unknown:
Oh, really? Yes.
[00:10:14] Unknown:
Yeah, I used to pick it and I used to try to use it, but it tastes so bad, so I switched to other things.
[00:10:24] Unknown:
It does have a very specific flavor. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And what do you use it for?
[00:10:32] Unknown:
Cuffs. but yeah, I like other things for cuffs nowadays. So, it has the lichen acids which make it antimicrobial and anti inflammatory. But I mean, if I can choose between using thyme and sage and hyssop or Iceland, I think I take the other three.
[00:10:58] Unknown:
Okay, so. And in Finland you still have like some specific traditions with plants. Like, maybe they are used in a symbolic way on certain anchor points in the years. So like, I don't know, for Christmas or midwinter festivities or.
[00:11:19] Unknown:
I don't know, for midsummer, at least along the coast, they raise the midsummer pole, which is, a long thing that's wrapped in birch. And before midsummer, they also do a lot of. What's it called? Lily of the valley Rests.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
Right.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
Because they're at that time. And they have such a nice scent.
[00:11:47] Unknown:
What do you do with lily of the valley? You hang them on the door or.
[00:11:52] Unknown:
Yeah. Decorate things with it. Yeah, it's nice.
[00:11:56] Unknown:
In Belgium we have this tradition with lily of the valley that we give it to each other on the 1st of May. So on May day, it's like a good luck charm. But it's. It has been dying out because of all the bad reputation about being it really toxic and you know, dogs dying from drinking the water that was in the vase of lily of the valley. So yeah, people are becoming very cautious. mostly in the south part of Belgium, people still do it, but like in the northern part where I live, it's. It's becoming quite rare.
[00:12:30] Unknown:
We have some other traditions, of course. For Christmas we have the Christmas tree. Therefore for Easter there's these Easter, willow twigs that are, decorated with feathers and eggs and things.
[00:12:44] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:12:45] Unknown:
And then you go from house as a small child, from house to house dressed up as a witch, and you say this, this, witch's rhyme and then you get candy.
[00:12:58] Unknown:
Oh, okay, okay. That's on Easter. Okay. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, what kind of herbal preparations are used in Finland? A lot. Like, do you do people mainly. Are they mainly familiar with like tinctures or Herbal teas or other things or are there like some specific. I know that previously, when I m was interviewing Mari from Norway, she was mentioning that, in the past people used like herbal porridges, a lot. So I was wondering if there was anything typically finished like a herbal preparation and also how like what herbal preparations are used most.
[00:13:44] Unknown:
in Finland it's mostly teas and in the shops you find both teas and tinctures. But, yeah, people use essentially only the echinacea tincture and everything else is used as teas. I think it's very good because if you make a tea for yourself and then drink it, you are involved in your own healing.
[00:14:09] Unknown:
Yes. And I also always have to think about Rosemary Gladstar saying that if you don't have the time to sit down and brew yourself a cup of tea, then this is something in your life you should be looking at. Right? Yeah.
[00:14:22] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:14:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:14:23] Unknown:
Yes. In America they mostly do tinctures or at least they did when I was there. And I was so confused. Nobody knew what tea, even how to make tea. It was okay.
[00:14:37] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really interesting how different it is in different areas of the world. I think like in, I remember in France it's they, they tend to use a lot of syrups made from herbs. So it's quite different in different areas of the world. Yeah. So how hard or how easy is it when you are looking for high quality herbs like dried herbs in Finland? Where can you get them and what is their quality? Generally.
[00:15:11] Unknown:
Some I pick myself and then I buy a lot from Germany and that is very good quality. And sometimes I need herbs. when I have run out of something in particular, then I can ask my friends in Finland. I have quite a lot of people who have been to my lectures and some of them contact me after and we chat and some of them tell me that they have this herb in abundance and then I might remember it later on and when I need it, I call and ask how much and when. And then they send me really good quality herbs. I like it.
[00:16:01] Unknown:
That's a really good system that you have there. Yes. And so like, if people generally they want to buy dried herbs to brew themselves a tea, where do they go to? Do they go to the pharmacist or to a health food store or the.
[00:16:23] Unknown:
Most common ones are available in the normal shops and then the more, interesting ones are in health food stores. So it's not too difficult to find dried herbs. But I mean, I talk About a, kilo or two then, right?
[00:16:41] Unknown:
Different. Yes. So when you say the most common herbs are available just in the shops, does that like include nettle? Can you buy dried nettle like even in supermarkets?
[00:16:53] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And chamomile. Yes.
[00:16:56] Unknown:
Wow. Okay, that is cool.
[00:17:02] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And sage and. Yeah, but I mean I tell people to go to the spice rack for sage and thyme. They are available in one liter, things.
[00:17:14] Unknown:
Yes, tetra pack.
[00:17:15] Unknown:
Much cheaper than to go to the health food part of the store.
[00:17:20] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. Wow. So this is what I'm wondering. If nettles is available in the supermarket as a dried herb, do people in general still consider it like a nuisance or a weed? Or do they, it's like the general audience in Finland, do they see it as a healing herb or more like weed that they need to get rid of or, or both or.
[00:17:54] Unknown:
There's so many people who go and pick nettles in spring and in summer and nowadays also quite a lot to pick nettle seed in fall. And then there's all these people who want a pristine lawn with nothing at all growing except grass. So those people of course still look at nettle at. Oh, there's a nettle. But mostly I think when I picked nettle seed, near an old castle a couple years ago, I had this big pillowcase because you can fit a lot of nettle in a pillowcase.
[00:18:29] Unknown:
It's very handy, a pillowcase.
[00:18:31] Unknown:
And then I put another pillowcase on top. But they still saw me walking away with all that nettle and instead of saying, oh, you can't do that. Oh, nettle. Yeah, my granny used to do that too.
[00:18:44] Unknown:
Wow.
[00:18:45] Unknown:
I love very healthy. I said yes, it was a lot of nettle. It was nettle seed so much. But yeah, I think that reaction was quite nice. I was a bit concerned. are they going to tell me you can't do that?
[00:19:04] Unknown:
Yeah, I can see in Belgium that the interest and you know, being able to identify the wild plants and knowing what you can do with them is definitely growing. But still so many people just want this. Well, it's like a green desert, you know, if you just want to have a lawn with only grass and. Yeah. but you know, the transition is going on, but we still have quite some work to do, I think. Yeah.
[00:19:35] Unknown:
My front garden includes nettles and dandelions and one of the neighbors used to say that that looks so unkempt, you should do something about it. But, not anymore.
[00:19:51] Unknown:
Right. That's a positive evolution. Or maybe they just gave up. Right?
[00:19:56] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:19:59] Unknown:
Yeah. So how is, her herbal medicine and herbal practice evolving in Finland? Like, do you see, some kind of influences from other parts of the world?
[00:20:14] Unknown:
Yes, probably. There are quite a few. we do have homegrown ones, and it has gotten, quite a bit more acceptable, to do herbs and, Yes, and I see the, outside influences too. Like, m. People tell me that they tried the Stephen Bunner protocol for their Lyme. I mean, yeah, I think it's, theoretical and too expensive, but to each their own.
[00:20:49] Unknown:
And do you also have the. The popularity of the, like the ginger shots, in Finland and the, Yes, shots.
[00:20:58] Unknown:
Not ginger turmeric, but ginger shots are available in every. Every shop, I think.
[00:21:03] Unknown:
Ah, yeah, same here. Same here.
[00:21:05] Unknown:
Yeah. And why not?
[00:21:07] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. There's this, there's not such a big problem with that, but just. Yeah, it makes me think about how, Yeah, and sometimes I. Sometimes I think that because these gender shots, they have gained such popularity over social media also. And also the whole. Which I think is a bit overhyped. I mean. Okay, just to state this clear, I love working with essential oils myself. I don't use them a lot, but like, just past weekend, one of my adopted chickens was sneezing really badly and there was no specialized fat available, so I just evaporated some essential oils. We put her separately in our garden shed and, you know, two days later, she. She's totally fine. She's.
She's regained health and she's. She's really. I was. I was a bit astonished at how fast she was recovering, really. but then I see on social media, I see this, people making their own laundry detergent, which is, of course, okay, but they put in like 25 drops of lavender essential oil for each load of laundry now.
[00:22:22] Unknown:
Oh, that's a bit much.
[00:22:23] Unknown:
That's like a whole lavender plant. The yield of a whole lavender plant with every load of laundry. I mean, that's not sustainable. You do several loads of laundry every week. How are we going to grow so much lavender?
[00:22:39] Unknown:
It's.
[00:22:40] Unknown:
It's a bit crazy to me. And people just think, oh, it's natural. So it's, you know. But, yeah, you know what I mean? Right?
[00:22:47] Unknown:
Yeah, it's a bit much. Yeah. Over the top. the tea tree oil craze also was over the top, but it has happily now, gone down a bit. And there also was this, craze about oil of oregano. Oregano, right. And I read up a bit on that and it was anything that resembled the center of oregano. So there were times and, and marjorams and whatever in there. Cheap things. But they do upset your digestion. So I think, I hope it has calmed down now. That. Great.
[00:23:28] Unknown:
Yes. I always find it very strange to see that the herbal world also has these hypes and these trends and these. Yeah, it's a bit strange, right?
[00:23:42] Unknown:
And then you look back and you see, oh, I jumped on that bandwagon, I better jump off.
[00:23:47] Unknown:
Yeah, right.
[00:23:52] Unknown:
And maybe you don't jump on the next bandwagon. But then three bandwagons later you're on it again.
[00:23:58] Unknown:
It's like, oh yeah, yeah. Sometimes you just have to say, hey, but like, wait, okay, so this is very trendy and so. But maybe I have to look into it first. Yeah. So I see people using lots of ginger shots and then I tell them like, hey, if you go to the dentist and you have to have a tooth pulled out, it might be better just to stop it a few days before you have the tooth pulled out because it thins the blood. But. And they're looking at me like, oh, really? It thins the blood? Like, yeah, if you take it like a shot every day, it's. Yeah, yeah. And they just don't realize it. So it's good to be aware of that. So when it comes to practicing herbalism in Finland, what is like the legal framework you said a little bit before that, you can just call yourself a herbalist, but like, if you want to practice herbalism, what are the things you can do and what you cannot do?
[00:24:59] Unknown:
We have a list of herbs on the pharmacy only. yeah, it's a pharmacy only list and we are not allowed to use those. unless we are a pharmaceutical factory who has gotten, permission from the medical authorities. Costs quite a bit of money, so we just don't use them. And you have to do the basic medical information course so that you know when to refer people away out. And I think the most important thing when you see clients as a herbalist is do no harm. So we really don't need any headlines that say that herbalist so and so has caused so and so ills in So. Yeah.
But legally there's no obstacles.
[00:26:00] Unknown:
Okay, so you're allowed to have a practice and to see clients and to do consultations.
[00:26:06] Unknown:
Yes. And if you want to do tinctures and, give, them to clients. Then you have to have an alcohol license.
[00:26:13] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:26:14] Unknown:
Yes. Okay. And everybody. Everybody in Finland knows that you are not allowed to sell alcohol without a license. So that's. That's a given.
[00:26:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:26:24] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:26:24] Unknown:
Okay. Wow. I'm just thinking about the facts. The. The fact that you can do consultations and seek clients, because in Belgium, that's, like, not really allowed. That's, Yeah. As a herbalist. So you can give, like, a, herbal walk and. And tell people about how they can use kind of herbs, but you cannot really, seek clients and. And, Yeah, like, if they have some problems and. And give them some advice on herbs that they could use. So. Yeah. And it. It really. It surprises me a little bit how in Europe we have all these different regulations. And also, like, I. What I've noticed with the people that I've talked with so far is that every country has, like, a forbidden herbs and then, a list of herbs that can be used, by herbalists.
and these lists are also in every country, very, very different. and like, in Belgium, there is now some whispering around that sage might be the next on our list. yeah. But the thing is. The thing is, I've really looked into the paperwork and the research about this and the thing. So it's because of the high thuyon, compound. But what they test is the essential oil of sage. And those are two completely different things. Like, would I use, sage herb in my food or in my drinks? Yes. Would I use it medicinally? Yes, of course. And of course not to nursing mothers or people with a high blood pressure. But would I ingest essential oil of sage? No, I wouldn't.
So it's just two completely different things, and they don't differentiate between these two. And that's just a pity.
[00:28:23] Unknown:
next day, we'll be coming after cinnamon cassia then, because. Yeah, yeah. They tried to prohibit, its use in Finland and got laughed out of the room because we have these cinnamon buns. Like, don't take it away. You can't.
[00:28:42] Unknown:
Yeah, it's like a signature thing. Yeah.
[00:28:45] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:28:47] Unknown:
Yes. And we need to speak about the elephant in the room here. But I do not understand why tobacco is not on that list, because we have, like, overwhelming scientific evidence that, well, you know, it's harmful. but it's not on this list, which I think is really fascinating and makes me think about. Yeah. Why it's not on the list. Well, probably because, yes, they can have taxes on it. It's clear. but it makes me think about is it really the well being of the people that you're after or what is it with these herbs that you put on the forbidden list?
[00:29:29] Unknown:
We have this other list in addition to the medicinal herbs that are forbidden and that's the drugs. And that includes then opium poppy and cannabis and I think tobacco is on there too, cocaine and all of those. So those are excluded as a matter of course. You can use other poppies, of course, in my doula. Ah, Puppy flower syrup for irritable coughs. It's quite nice.
[00:30:00] Unknown:
Yeah. So in our lists, I just looked it up before a talk just to make sure that I had it right. But like a plant, like ground, ivy is on the same list as lily of the valley and other very toxic plants. Yes. Which I cannot understand. I'm sorry, but I cannot understand. And I have to say I do use it. I, I eat it, I, I drink it. I love the flavor. and I don't understand why it's on the list. Yes, polygon. yes, of course. But you, you won't eat too much of it because it's also, it's an aromatic, but it's also a bitter plant. So you know, the flavor will stop you from eating too much of it.
[00:30:48] Unknown:
But you know, on our list we have pumpkin seed because it has been used as a dewormer. So you can't use it medicinally. But if you go to the shops, you can buy pumpkin seeds by the kilo.
[00:31:00] Unknown:
That's a crazy situation. Yes, that's crazy. Yeah. Also, if you're gathering plants in the wild like you do sometimes, do you see like an impact of environmental pressure or climate change on the native plants of Finland? Do you see that changing?
[00:31:22] Unknown:
Yes. Ah, the spruces are slowly going because we have this beetle that goes under the bark and kills them. And we have a lot more oaks now coming up than they didn't used to survive 30, 40 years ago. But now they're just growing. And we have some other plants that didn't used to survive that now are coming. But I mean, those are the big ones that you see. And of course we have a lot more ticks now which can give you Lyme because Lyme's disease because they survive the winter better and we have ah, longer season, without freezing cold. So they can get in another generation within one year.
And that, that really puts a crimp into the picking plants in the wild thing because you always have to check for ticks. Yes. I don't like it.
[00:32:31] Unknown:
And do you? Because what I notice also is how, So I like to write down what plants or what plant part I gathered when. And I can see that. So sometimes my students ask me, oh, and when is the time to gather this plant part or this plant part? And I say, well, I used to say, like, at the end of March, but now it could also be, like, the end of April even, or the beginning of May. So I see that, like, the seasons are fluctuating, and sometimes there are, like, extremely wet springs or extremely dry summers, and everything just changes. And, I even have, like, a Dutch colleague, and she has made a wonderful, calendar. so she's a drawer. So she made a wonderful harvesting calendar when you can, pick what wild plants. And she says, not selling these anymore, because I just can't pinpoint it anymore. It's so much fluctuating, and every year it's different.
And.
[00:33:39] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. this year, we were about two weeks, three weeks early on almost anything. But, it depends on the year. Normally, the mass flowering of dandelion is between, end of May and beginning of June. But this year it was early to. Yeah, really early May. It's not so nice.
[00:34:07] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. Then the line was early here, too. But a lot of things were later also in the year, which was kind of weird, but. Yeah. Yeah. I just think we had a lot of rain. And so, like, this year, what happened, like, with the elderflowers, there was just so much rain. You know, if it's, like, elderflower season and it's very warm, then the amount of time, you know, the time span in which they flower is just very short. It's like, poof, this burst of elderflower. And now, because of all the rain, they flowered for nearly a month. You know, they were just spurting between all the rain showers. And they think, okay, now it's a bit of sun. We can open a few more, flowers. And, yeah, it was completely different. but it was nice because you could harvest, you know, a little bit. Dan. And a little bit. Then it just was a completely different way of harvesting, because usually it's like, oh, elder is flowering. Okay, we have to harvest now, and we cannot wait before it's over. yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I really like your Facebook group that you have started. the herbal medicine group. Yeah, I really, really like it. I, was wondering, why you started this group.
[00:35:28] Unknown:
because, I have there Was there was a group of medical herbalism, and it was very good. And then they moved to, some other format. I don't know why. And, deleted the old group when they did. And, it was a few years. And I thought, well, I have made a group in Finnish for medical herbs and detests. So T000 is five years old. Yeah, I know. Five years old. It's like, okay. And I have made one in Swedish. And then I thought, well, I could make one in English as well. And, it is really good. I looked at a couple of other groups and, one had 30,000 subscribers. And the introduction said, absolutely no medical advice allowed here. So why do you have a medicinal herb group? I just wonder.
It's like, okay, why is that totally prohibited? Yeah. No, but, yeah, I think it will be a very good group and I intend to keep, keep it that way. So if we get too many people who ask, is that yarrow? Then they will get killed.
[00:36:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that you have made this group, and I really, I really enjoy it. Yes.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:36:57] Unknown:
So you have written some books like Practical Herbalism one and Practical Herbalism two. which was originally, I think, in Finnish and then translated to Swedish and to English. who did you wrote it for? What can readers expect when they open the book?
[00:37:18] Unknown:
I wrote it for people who want to go out and pick plants and use them. And about half of the plants in each book is, in the wild, and about half is, grown. And, it works out like this. The, English version is the half that is garden grown and the half that is found in the wild in the USA are different, but it's still half and half. Nice, I think. Yes, it's interesting. But, yeah, the idea is, you grow some and you pick some. Anders detailed instructions on how you do it.
[00:37:55] Unknown:
But.
[00:37:56] Unknown:
And because I have been teaching since, 1986, I think, not quite sure I know all the mistakes and I have done all the mistakes. And I have, had the same teaching, paper for decades. And every time somebody tells me, oh, that's wrong, I say, oh, thank you very much, and then I correct it. So it's been evolving. And, the books are based partly on, what I have used, for my lectures. So it's all tested and true and everything works, which is quite nice.
[00:38:37] Unknown:
Yes. I think that is one of the aspects that I also like myself. I always tell my students, hey, these are the mistakes I made. You don't have to make them you can learn from my mistakes. Of course you will make mistakes. It's part of the process. But these mistakes you don't have to make because I can tell you in advance that it won't work or it's, you know. Yeah. So that's nice about being, you know, having some years of experience and being able to share from that rather than just, you know, theoretically from, from books or from your education. Yes.
Yeah.
[00:39:13] Unknown:
And then people tell me, oh, but I tried that and it worked when you did it like this. And I said, oh, wow, thank you. And then I tried. It's, it's interesting. You get feedback and you try and you learn all the time.
[00:39:23] Unknown:
Yes. It's like a growing, organically growing thing, you know, it keeps, yeah, it keeps evolving. And that's really nice about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Because also what you have nowadays is these, these books on herbalism written by artificial intelligence, which is rather worrying, I think.
[00:39:44] Unknown:
that's horrible. Yeah, they just troll the Internet and slap, something together and that's it. a flashy title and a name with a PhD or something behind it and people buy it. It's like, oh no, don't.
[00:39:59] Unknown:
Yes. So buy your books from a really good herbalist. Yes. That you know and that, you know is a real person and that has experience.
[00:40:09] Unknown:
Yes. Yeah. Or even somebody who even has tried the herbs. Doesn't have to be a herbalist, but they have to have tried the herbs.
[00:40:16] Unknown:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And it's, you know, that is, that is a thing there. These, these books are just like mixtures made of what is found on the World Wide Web. But there is so much Quatch on the World Wide Web and so much trash and so much wrong things and especially when it comes to herbs. So you really want to be cautious when, when as a source of knowledge it's just not. Yes. And it does not say written by AI.
[00:40:47] Unknown:
So. Yeah, yeah. Because if it did, nobody would buy it. And these people live off two or three people buying a, print on demand book and then they slap another title on it and sell it again. It's horrible.
[00:41:02] Unknown:
Yeah, it is horrible. Yeah. And there is, I think it's really hard to, to put a stop to that. There's not really so much you can do except informing the people that these books are not okay to use and encouraging them to buy better books.
[00:41:20] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. There should be laws about it.
[00:41:23] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:41:25] Unknown:
I expect the EU will protect us on this as well. I hope they do. So well, on a lot of things.
[00:41:33] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. yeah, I would like that, that they would really step in and say, hey, this is not. We're not going to allow that. Yes, yes. And for those who want to know more about it, I want to refer to, a really good blog post of Chestnut School of Herbal Medicine that they wrote about, books on herbalism written by AI and it's really. Yeah, it's, it's really, enlightening to read, I think. yeah. So you also have like a herbal medicine distance course, right?
[00:42:04] Unknown:
Oh, yes.
[00:42:05] Unknown:
And it's also in, in Finnish and Swedish and English.
[00:42:09] Unknown:
Yes, yes, yes. How do you manage that and start to some. A lady from Lapland called me in 2010 about. And started to ask all kinds of questions about herbs and, and problems and things like that. And I answered and then I asked her. We had talked for an hour perhaps, then I asked her, did you actually want advice on herbs or do you want to become a herbalist? And she was quiet and she said, both, I guess. I said, okay, I'll send you some materials. And then I slapped something together and emailed it to her. And she came back two weeks, three weeks later and said, okay, so, how much do I owe you?
I said, what? And then I thought, yeah, well, she's up in Lapland. She can't come to Helsinki, at least not all that often. I expect there are other people in Finland who have the same problem. So then I put together a Hubble distance course and I wrote it. I mean, it's one part every three months. So I wrote one part every three months and sent it off to the people who had signed, up for it. And then after a while I thought, well, yeah, there's Swedish speaking people in Finland too. I think I should make it for them as well. Then I translated it and now I'm translating it to English. I'm on part four. I didn't before because there are so many, courses in English, but I, I think this one also has a place.
[00:43:49] Unknown:
Yes, I think that's the great thing. Just the diversity in, in the field of herbalism. And I think, yeah, everybody has their own approach and their own experience and their own. And. And yeah, you, you can learn different things from different people. So yeah, I definitely think it has a place. Totally. Yes.
[00:44:09] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:44:10] Unknown:
So what are the kind of people that follow your course?
[00:44:16] Unknown:
there's, three different types. Ones are, they are already therapists, massage therapist or shiatsu or something like that and want something else. And they will start using herbs in their practice. Some want to learn the basics about herbalism and, maybe start to practice. It takes really a lot of courage to start to practice, though. And then the last third or so are people who want to use herbs to help their family and friends. And, Christopher Headley said that if you do a herb course, if you attend a herb school, you should. The minute you learn things about herbs for cough, you should stop everybody who, coughs and tell them, use this herb and use that herb and use my number and tell me, did it work or not?
And I think that's a nice approach. I mean, you use it immediately, which give you courage to use it more.
[00:45:20] Unknown:
Right. I think that's interesting because.
[00:45:25] Unknown:
When I.
[00:45:25] Unknown:
Was teaching at herbalist school, I was actually saying to my students, because I see a lot of students that they graduate, and then they become. Or even during their education, they're becoming discouraged because they say, I want to share my knowledge with a lot of people. And a lot of people look at me and say, hey, I didn't ask for your advice. So I tell them, actually never to give unwanted advice. And I also. This is how I communicate it to my friends and family. I say, okay, if you have a cuff or a sprained ankle or whatever, and you want to have some herbal advice, I'm always available for you. But I will not just unsolicited give you advice, because I don't know if you're asking for it. So I think it's a really interesting approach to just instead stop everybody you see coughing and tell them what they can use.
[00:46:25] Unknown:
Yeah. And then, I've been doing this for quite some time, so I'm, comfortable in what I do, and I'm known, which means that, people do trust my advice. So if I see somebody, a friend's family or just strangers or, people on my courses, I might just tell them to do this or do that, or I might give them some herb. Somebody who is scatterbrained all over the place. I tell them, yeah, today we have this, and, tomorrow we are here as well. So I'll bring you that herb tomorrow, and you can chew it and see how you feel. I mean, it's.
And they usually help, which is nice. And then people. Yeah. And I get clients.
[00:47:16] Unknown:
Yeah. But, sometimes this is really what it takes for people to believe. And I, you know, believe, because it's not about belief, really, but it takes always, like, one experience where the herbs really have made A difference for people to see that herbs are actually working and that, that it's real and that it's not some kind of hoax or a hocus pocus, that it's real. And yeah, I think it's also a little bit of pity because sometimes people wait way too long to use herbs. So they say, like I've used all these things that my doctor prescribed me, nothing worked and now I'm open to be using herbs. So what can you advise me? And then I think, you know, you could have have tried the herbs first, you know, in non urgent situations, of course, but you could have have had less side effects and less by starting to use the herbs first and not as some last resort to, you know, to.
[00:48:23] Unknown:
Yeah, but people don't know that there's herbalists so they start to look for them after they've tried everything else. So it's, it's just part of being human I think. Part of. So you try everything the doctors say and then it doesn't work. And then you try to find a herbalist and then you try the alternative approach which might work about people who don't believe in that herbs work. I love to tell them to eat a bag of prunes when they have a cough. It's the best cough. But it's never for those who don't get it. It's if you eat a bag of prunes you will get the runs.
[00:49:02] Unknown:
So you will know, you will know.
[00:49:06] Unknown:
You can't cough because you will have things in your pants that don't belong there. I mean that proves to them that herbs work. And if they say they won't do it, then they know that herbs work from the start. So it's win win for me.
[00:49:23] Unknown:
Yes. And it's crazy because we all know that coffee works and, and that cannabis works and that ah, nobody doubts that. Right. So yeah, yeah. So what I like about your style is like you just said with a bag of prunes, it's like you're no nonsense approach. so like most herbalists have, have have well known about the, the constituents of comfrey, being water soluble. But then they also see that the, the comfrey oils ourselves also work and really work not just as a placebo, but that they work. And then I in, in, in this Facebook group, I loved how you stated. Well I guess the plant hasn't read the books that say that comfrey shouldn't work in a herbal oil or salve. Yeah, it's like that.
[00:50:13] Unknown:
If it doesn't read the book, it doesn't know it doesn't work.
[00:50:17] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:50:19] Unknown:
That'S the way it is. Have to teach the herbs to read books.
[00:50:23] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's one of the things I've learned from you is that, we have to talk about St. John's Wort. So when I graduated herbal school, in 2002, which seems like a lifetime ago now, and at that time it was hammered into us that we always had to mention how this plant interacts with her with, birth control pills. But then I learned from you, as it turns out, that this is quite different. You, like, you did a Facebook post about this that St. John's wort and herbal control pills. It's not what we have always taught it to be.
[00:51:06] Unknown:
Yeah, it was, interesting. In 1995, there was a program in America called, 2020 where they told people that St. John's Wort works for depression. And it disappeared from the shelves. everybody just bought it. And then 1996, same thing. In 1997, the, pharmaceutical giants started to look at each other. So what do we do? How do we discredit this herb? It's starting to eat into our antidepressant, profits. And then there was big, big headlines that two women in Sweden had taken St. John's wort and the pill and gotten pregnant. And as long as they don't tell the rest of the story, how many, women in Sweden had taken the pill without St. John's wort and gotten pregnant in 1997?
as long as they only tell one side of the story and not the other, I look at it as pure propaganda. Because I've since learned that, about 10%, 5%, a large amount anyway, of women on the pill do get pregnant despite taking the pill. And this is because if you miss a pill, you don't have protection that month. And if you have diarrhea, you don't have protection that much. And then it says on the pillbox 99.9%, effective. So every two hundreds, every 100. I don't, I'm quite sure is anyway. But yeah, so 99%.
[00:52:48] Unknown:
But it has nothing to do with St. John's Wort.
[00:52:50] Unknown:
Yeah, no, but then, some people from America, from the U.S. commented on that and said, yes, you are probably right, but I wouldn't risk it in this climate of no abortion available to a lot of American states. So, if you live in a place where you do not have access, to then I expect that you shouldn't take St. John and the pill just to be on the safe side. But generally, it's a non thing. It doesn't work that way. And the pill is formulated for madams with really fast metabolism. So yeah, if you're unlucky. But I don't think it has anything to do with Sancho.
[00:53:42] Unknown:
It makes me wonder about any other herbs that we have substantial misconceptions about.
[00:53:50] Unknown:
like some people tell me that mallow is toxic. In Finland there is this, ah, myth. And I said, what?
[00:53:58] Unknown:
Huh?
[00:53:59] Unknown:
Yeah, it's not. It's totally benign. And yeah, it's like what? And then in England you're not allowed to use whole slippery elm, bark, because whole slippery elm, bark bits have been used as mechanical devices to induce an abortion. So the whole thing is forbidden.
[00:54:19] Unknown:
Whoa.
[00:54:21] Unknown:
I mean, yeah, coat hanger sort of thing really. But the powder is allowed.
[00:54:30] Unknown:
I'm quite speechless now.
[00:54:32] Unknown:
Yeah, there's these interesting things. Yeah, I don't remember, but every now and then I have my distance. students send me in herb sheets that they have filled out basic, information and what they tried and what worked or didn't work. And there's one point called cautions. And they do put some outlandish things on there. Yeah. One was that nettle would induce abortion. That was on one of the other Internet forum. And I said what? Nobody else ever says that. And do you have references? and they had a website which had a link to a, study. And I looked up the study and the study referred to another study.
And the other study said that nettle is among the plants you use to give minerals to people who are pregnant. And in another sentence in that paper they said, and these might induce abortion, but nettles was not on that list. but debunking this kind of thing, I mean it takes time and you can't stamp it out because it's somewhere on some website anyway. It's like what? But if you see something really outlandish, just go to the bottom of it, ask for references. And then try to debunk it. Because it needs debunking.
[00:56:03] Unknown:
Yes, yes. Because yeah, herbalism is of course about the plants and about the people. But I think especially in these times, it's also a little bit about activism, about like debunking myths that are just based on nothing. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:56:23] Unknown:
Trying to make nettle. Yeah. No, nettle is very, very good for Pregnant ladies.
[00:56:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Crazy. So how do you see the future of herbalism in Finland?
[00:56:37] Unknown:
Oh, I think it's quite rosy. I hope more and more people seeing, clients. I hope more and more people are doing herbs for medicine. After the second world War, only rich people had access to, medications. So the poor people used herbs. And that means that, it fell out of fashion and fixed m it. But we have had a revival since 1970 about. So it's coming back, which is quite excellent. And growing.
[00:57:16] Unknown:
Yes, yes. I think it's the same here or pretty much the same here In Belgium when I was graduating from herbalist school.
[00:57:24] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
We had a class of 12 people and I think about three of them graduated. And yes, now the first year they have more than 65 people. And that's just in one local school. So it's really growing. And that's a good thing, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:57:44] Unknown:
The more the merrier.
[00:57:45] Unknown:
Yes, exactly. And what would your advice be to beginning herbalists as a really experienced herbalist with years, and years of experience with plants, with people, what would your advice be?
[00:58:02] Unknown:
Trust your instincts. be yourself. Yeah. Be yourself and laugh at things. You have to have fun doing what you do.
[00:58:11] Unknown:
That is some very solid advice, I think. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:58:17] Unknown:
And also, I have a text called, Wisdom for Beginners. I think on my blog. I think you can put the link if you want. And m. it says that it's a lonely profession and you don't know the outcome a lot of times. And you just have to think that they got all better when they don't call you after a month or two when they, Yeah, they got all better. I mean, a lot of my clients come this, today and then in two, three months. And then in two, three months. And a lot of my clients come now and then never again. But I might get calls or I might get emails. Oh, that worked so well.
So I just think they all think that. They just don't say because it's, you can't just think that they didn't get better.
[00:59:13] Unknown:
Yes. Then it's a whole different story.
[00:59:15] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. But not all do get better, of course. It's.
[00:59:19] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. That's the reality. Yeah. So where can people find out more about your work? Like your website, where they can. Where can they find your website?
[00:59:29] Unknown:
My website is Henrietta's herbal and it's henrietta-herb.com and it's, very, very big. It's very big. The front page Looks small, but when you dive into it, it's, quite enormous. And it's, divided. You can look for plants by Latin name or you can look for, pictures by. Yeah, that's also alphabetically by Latin name. And then there's the old books and there's all kind of things. Big, big site.
[01:00:00] Unknown:
Okay, listener, if you want to visit Henrietta's site, I think you should be aware that you need some time for this. It's like a rabbit hole. There is so much good information on it. So, yeah, you just need a bit of time. Plan ahead and plan a bit of time just to dive into it and yes, explore everything that's on really, really great website. Okay. Thank you so much, Henrietta, for this lovely talk.
[01:00:30] Unknown:
thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[01:00:32] Unknown:
Yes, it's really been a pleasure. And for the listener, I want to thank you for listening. I hope to meet you for the next episode. And meanwhile, keep powdering your nose with dandelion, pollen. Bye bye.
[01:00:45] Unknown:
That's a good one.
[01:00:51] Unknown:
Thank you for listening. Wildy, are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there, but for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
