WYLDE

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Lyra Alves is a very experienced herbalist who is originally from Brazil, but she lived in Belgium for 17 years, and is now living in Poland.
She's not only a phytotherapist but also an amazing wizard with plantbased ingredients as a vegan chef.
Enjoy our lovely talk! 

About being lucky to grow up in a house with a big garden and spending vacations in the countryside.

About being fascinated by the ancient healers or curandeiros as a child, but also needing the more rational knowledge from books. 

About how science is catching up with things that were used to be called witchcraft or mumbo jumbo.

About the differences between Brazil, Belgium and Poland regarding general plant knowledge and legal framework.

About the importance of keeping herbal knowledge alive and passing it on to the next generations.

About typical Brazilian plants that she misses in Europe, and new plants she discovered here.

About regenerative herbalism on different levels and the Healing Weeds project.


And lots more.



You can find more information about Lyra and her work on the website:
https://healingweeds.blogspot.com/

Or follow her on Instagram @regenerative.herbalism or via the Facebook page of Healing Weeds.


Lyra mentions these books by Michael Tierra: 

• The Way of Herbs
• Planetary Herbology 

🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.


If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚


🎼 music by Eva LaRuna

Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.

[00:00:00] Unknown:

Hi, Wildling.  

[00:00:01] Unknown:

Hey.  

[00:00:02] Unknown:

I'm still looking for some more   interesting.   Guests on, European herbalism and   foraging.   So if you know anybody that would want to be   a guest in my podcast series, please feel   free to reach out and contact me through social   media Wildplant Forager, or through my   website, wildplantforager.com.  

[00:00:24] Unknown:

Thank you so much. Much.  

[00:00:30] Unknown:

Welcome to Wild   the Podcast for Wildlings. Just   like you wildlings who want to   transform the prevalent plant blindness   to collective plant wisdom.   my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a   herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium   since 2. 2002. In   those years, I've seen a lot of changes.   Working with plants has become more popular,   but I've also seen time   is running out for our planet.   As foragers and herbalists in   Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different   plant species and different cultural   approaches towards plants. In   some countries, working with plants is   licensed, and in others it's almost   illegal. I believe   that together we can learn from one another   and be stronger. There is   nothing more empowering   than connecting wild souls.  

Together we can have a greater impact   on restoring the ancient link between   people and, and plants.   And that's why for this podcast series,   I'm talking to fellow herbalists and   foragers in Europe. So if you're   ready to find out what you've never been   told, but what your soul already   knows, welcome to   Wild.   Hi, wildlings. Welcome to a new   episode of the Wild podcast.   And today I'm here with Lyra Alves.   She's a very experienced   herbalist and herb woman. she   used to live in Brazil, then she lived in Belgium,   and now she lives in Poland. So it's   going to be lovely to have a conversation with   her about these different countries and how   they deal with herbalists and with   herbal healing. so. So, lira, welcome.  



[00:02:44] Unknown:

Thank you for having me. M Neva, it's a pleasure   talking to you.  

[00:02:49] Unknown:

And I forgot to mention, lira is also one of   my ultimate vegan chef's   favorites. she's just an amazing   wizard with ingredients, with plant based ingredients.   I just want the listener to know this.   Lira, you, you are really wonderful when it   comes to cooking so much   lira. How did your love for plants get   started?  

[00:03:13] Unknown:

It was early in my life.   I was blessed with living in a   place that had a relatively large   garden. So we were always playing in the garden.   But in our vacation time, I would go   to the countryside where   people lived very much in   nature because, yeah, it was a simple life.   And in there I was Already   exposed to   the ancient healers and the old   folk healers who   knew those special formulas and   the special plants that would heal these and   that. So for me, that was always fascinating   and I'm, I'm really blessed to have been exposed to all   those things from childhood because it gave   me that feeling of like, wow, this is really   where my heart is. So, so I was always,   yeah, my interest whenever   I heard, oh, there is this person, this   folk healer curandeiro,   that's how they call in South America, pretty much   everywhere in South America. Curandero, Curandeiro,   Brazilian or Spanish. And you would find   them in a lot of the countryside spread   through South America. You'll find   originally they were their shamans. They hold   the real knowledge about the plants and the   connections. And that knowledge was   shared culturally,   from mouth to mouth. And of course it gets   diluted. So when it gets to the modern   day curanderos, yeah, you will   get just a tiny drop of what it   originally was. So the   deeper you go into   the woods, into the   real less civilized   parts of South America, then you'll   find the real deal. Then you can get   to really know some knowledge like, oh, this   plant works for this. But if the person   has, what we   call perhaps choleric   temperament, if the person has some bio   problems, they could explain that in a very   simple way, but in terms of energy.  

And they know much more about the work   of the plants according to the energy and what would work   for that person. Person. And that was for me. Aha.   So it's not just like, oh, he has a pro   cake and you're going to treat everybody with the same   plant. So this   knowledge of specificity of   plants, that was for me. So this is another   level and it pushed me. I   always wanted to go and know more   about these things. So while I   was in Brazil, it was easy to go and not   easy. You had to go and drive a lot and find,   find these people. But later in   life I got, I became a teenager   and then you get to want to   intellectualize a lot. And I needed   to make sense of those things because, let's face   it, I grew up in a very large urban   area from 5 million people,   and I wasn't living directly in contact with nature.  

Totally not. So I needed to have something   rational. I needed to have   books and an explanation about what is it   that they are calling this energy? What is it that   makes, for instance, that is like, I don't know,   128 plants   that could help this throat ache,   but one will help this person. For   me this was the real knowledge I was after.   And I found. The closest I found   were the books of Michael Tierra,   the Way of Herbs and the planetary,   herbalism, herbology.   And those books, him and David   Hoffman, they were my two mentors.   I, I was like dedicated   to just know their books from front   to back. And later on I went into,   into the knowledge of   Chinese medicine, which helped me   to further this kind of knowledge and identify   the patterns between what was affecting people, which   herbs are going to be specific for   them. So this, this is   what lightened up   my, my heart.  



[00:07:55] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:07:57] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:07:57] Unknown:

And I'm just trying to imagine   because for me as a   Belgian woman, it just was   not a thing. Growing up as a child, there were   no herbal healers around me.   I had never heard of this. It was   just in my world it was pretty much non   existent. So I'm just trying   to imagine how it would feel to grow   up in a world like yours,   where those people were there and setting the   example. And it's very interesting also   how you say that you were triggered by the   not one size fits all approach. But   yes, more the individualized path of   herbal medicine. That's really interesting.  



[00:08:45] Unknown:

Yeah. And now you made me curious. Can I ask   what triggered your passion   for plants growing up in a place that no   one else had? This, this is a pioneer war,   right? This is really even   more interesting story.  

[00:09:01] Unknown:

Well, actually I, I did have plants   around. So my, my father took us to the   botanical garden,   almost every weekend and we had a garden   ourselves. We were lucky. And   yes, my grandfather on my mother's side, he also   had a big garden, but it was just decorative   plants, nothing, you know,   just like it was in the 80s, and the   90s. But then at one   point I went into a   bookstore to, to find, to find   a wonderful book. It was with photographs,   of the forests. I loved it.   And this, I think this was one of the   first books that I bought for myself as a   present for myself. And   when I was paying it, the woman said, oh,   we have some extra small books here.  

You get them for free when you buy a book.   And it was a book on herbal medicine.   It was a tiny, tiny book,   very small, very thin. But just   this whole thing, it was like   me opening the book   and it was like grabbing my soul   and transferring me to a different world. I can   really only describe it like that. And   that was like the first time, I think I   was 14 at that time,   that I thought, wow, this is, this is a   thing. And people do this. I remember the book was   mostly. Well, the book, the booklet really was   most about, traditional   herbal medicine in like the Alps   and in Swiss and in France.  

but yeah, it got   my attention and I was just trying   to find people who were also doing this in   Belgium, but it was really hard to find them. Yeah,   yeah. So now you have the story.   I love it when, when guests ask me   questions.  

[00:11:07] Unknown:

Yeah. But this is so moving.  

[00:11:11] Unknown:

Yes. Because I always, I did always have this   connection, I think, with, with the   plants. and   yes, what also helped is that we had rabbits.   We, we had rabbits, pet   rabbits when I was a kid. And they were, when   they were running free in the garden. It was a   walled garden and when they were running   free, I would just go lay in   the grass and in the herbs with them and just watch   what they were eating and watch their behavior.   And this was. I also like   to say that I just got a   lot of blunt love from the rabbits.   They showed me the way.  



[00:11:54] Unknown:

Yes, yes. Animals are   real. The real Zang masters.  

[00:12:01] Unknown:

Yes, yes.  

[00:12:02] Unknown:

For me as well.  

[00:12:03] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. So   Lira, you   lived in Brazil and then you,   you became a herbalist there, but   it's not really. I think you studied   phytotherapy. Right. Instead of herbalism.  

[00:12:20] Unknown:

So yes, it's like this. I was in medical   school when I decided to do   a weekend course. It was an intensive course,   two years, but every weekend. So   combined with going to university, every   weekend I would go to another university that had this   weekend intensive grown up courses   on Chinese medicine, traditional Chinese medicine. It was   the pioneer course in Brazil.   There was no, official   academic curriculum like that is in so   many places right now. But back   then there wasn't   any. Was a real. They squeezed the Chinese   curriculum in those two years because that's   all that was legally allowed at that point. So we had to   study a lot of things from books   and material that were   not available. So we had to really do it   in a shorter version. But while   I was doing this Chinese course,   I had the chance to do internship   at the hospital, at an official university   hospital. And that was it for   me. Because in there the   doctors would send the   patients they gave up on all the   complicated cases, chronic diseases and things   to this clinic that we, my mentors,   my acupuncture mentors, they set up this, they   call the pain clinic. It was officially   just to heal pain because acupuncture was   already at that time proven to reduce   pain in patients and they wouldn't explain why.  

They didn't understand the mechanism,   but they knew it Worked because the patients were   getting better. So   I was fascinated by the work. And   we got green, light to do   anything we wanted because the patients were   basically thrown there because the doctors   literally didn't know how to help them.   So we could use herbs, we could treat   the chronic kidney disease because doctors also   didn't know how to treat that. And   patients, for instance, with the last, stage,   nephropathy and neuropathy from   diabetes, from complications from diabetes and   edema everywhere. And we would just use   for instance, things like dandelion.  

So simple. It worked like   much quicker than any m. Diuretics.   So we would see that those results in   cases where the, the doctors just simply   gave up. And for me, for me that was   like. And then I   realized that what I was looking for was the   real healing. To go into the root causes.   I, I wasn't there and I felt this,   this magical course, the academic course is   wonderful. If you want to save lives, you want to   do stitches and you want to save a life. And this   is super important and a beautiful work,   but that's not what I want to go for. So   I dropped. And of course it was a shock   for the family, for the friends and everybody shocked because   getting into university in Brazil is really   hard. So you really work a   lot to get there. And it's just for   the chosen ones who really.  

So nobody drops from medical school.   So it was an extra shock   for everyone. So it was emotionally   difficult to face their   yeah, social life and, and the environment.   But my heart was so powered by   the possibilities of, of the doors that were   just opening. You know, while there is those   magical plants that are the easiest plants, you find them   everywhere and they can do things   that several other drugs are not doing.   This is what I want. You just use a combination   of needles and the person can walk   without pain. So those things were for   me, yeah, I'm interested in this magic.  

This is really what powers   me still today. Everything that I   feel worth learning more   about, digging deeper. I   think this, the field of healing herbs,   the combination of   work that our body can   cope with or can handle. What is   it that this patient has the same symptom,   but the other one got better quicker? So   there is so many variables.   You see, for me this is a puzzle that we   will forever be working on as   healers. You will always be   busy learning more, studying more, digging   more. So for me, this is something that will just   forever be giving me   the energy to keep   studying from other herbalists, from other   people, working with different, in   different fields of healing   so yeah.  



[00:17:38] Unknown:

It'S also one aspect that makes it really   exciting for me that the learning   part is never over. It's always,   there's always something new and something and,   and also scientifically sometimes there are new   insights that are really valuable. Yes.  

[00:17:56] Unknown:

Yeah. Yes. I love how   science is finally getting   to, to publish so many things that were used   to be called witchcraft or like   you know, mumbo jumbo, whatever they, they   in the past. I think especially in the 80s,   and 90s, people were still   regarding this   complementary medicine as   it was. Doctors were dismissive   of, of the work of any of   the healing arts that were not the conventional   medicine. And then a lot of   these pioneering countries, Switzerland,   Austria, Germany especially, and now in the United   States there's so many hospitals   working together with herbalists, with   acupuncturists, with. Even with   homeopathy. So   it's brilliant to see. And for me this is   the future that all the   modalities are working together,   connected, supporting each other because there   is no. This is better. No, we need   everyone, we need every healer,   every field of work is   absolutely needed because we humans   are very sick on all levels. So we need a lot of   healing and there is different   levels of healing and there is different needs   for each patient. So I find it   beautiful when I see this pioneering   work of these hospitals and these   clinics where   everybody sits together to try to save one   patient. That it's a complicated case, but each one will   have a different insight and a different input   which is just as invaluable   to the situation depending on, on   the case. It's, it's beautiful. And there is mutual   respect.  



[00:19:54] Unknown:

Yes. And I agree that   multi perspective thing is so   valuable.  

[00:20:00] Unknown:

I think it's the future.  

[00:20:02] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:20:03] Unknown:

I'm sure this is the future of, of   healing. The future of real medicine will be when all   the practitioners get together to work   as a team. Because   health. Yeah, we, we are just   scratching the surface. We know nothing about the   human body and we think we know anatomy, we   know a little bit of physiology. But there is so many   mysteries and so many things that we don't know why this   patient got Covid and he got   still in. He's still having symptoms for four years   on, you know, while other people are going their   lives as if nothing happened. Why? These   whys are for me the key of   any learning, that it's worth learning.  

You see the questions of   why these things happen. And   Yeah. So I will forever be asking   why.  

[00:20:57] Unknown:

Yes. So   you spent your youth in Brazil, growing up   there and then you came To Belgium.   You lived there for quite some years,   right?  

[00:21:10] Unknown:

Yeah, 17 years in Belgium.  

[00:21:11] Unknown:

17 years. And then you moved to   Poland. How long are you living in Poland now?  

[00:21:17] Unknown:

Six years.  

[00:21:18] Unknown:

Six years. Okay. So if you look at these three   countries, what   kind of differences do you see when it comes to   like general basic   blunt knowledge amongst the population?  

[00:21:34] Unknown:

It's probably very different if you   consider, for instance, large urban areas   compared to the countryside. But what   I see as a difference is,   well, in Brazil, because there is still a lot   of influence from the indigenous   culture. I think this is   probably why there is some openness   to herbalism. There   is a lot of openness and   there is a lot of scientists investigating   the power of plants. So I'm also very grateful   that when I was there and when I was   studying, I could go to   a lot of herbal congresses   and see reputable   scientists with a lot of   PhDs talk about a   lot of plants that have like, yeah, they were   considered magical plants by the indigenous   cultures and now they found out, oh, they have   actually these, and these and these   compounds that will fight cancer   better than any drug they had found at that   time. For instance, just to mention an example,   or a certain plant that will heal   stomach ulcers, you know. And then I would learn   the Latin name, then go investigate the plant and   try them in patients. Because I was already   practicing with, together with   with some doctors. We had a clinic together. So I would   try, oh, you have a stomach. also   this has zero side effects. Just try it. And   like in two weeks the patient was completely   pain free and being able to eat whatever he wants.  

So I had a   real great chance to be   practicing these things and check   in real time the results.   Because a lot of herbs, most   herbs, they have real   limited side effects. If you know what you're   doing, you start low dosage   and then you move on and you try to check   which constitution will adapt   well on this situation.   And even when herbalists are sometimes   hesitant, I, I think we should, we should be   not so confident. We should always be hesitant. But if you   think about it, it's the same with   conventional medicine. The doctors are also trial   doing trial and error all the time. I'll try   this anti depressant and then we're going to see   if it doesn't work really in two months, I, ah, see you. And then   we try something else. I mean, if   it's worth trying something, but with a   drug that will have so many very   dangerous side effects, it's   worth trying also something on a level   that can have less harmful   consequences to the body. So I think   that knowing that should give people   a little bit more confidence to try things   that if you see really there is no   known side effects, start with   a little bit. But if it's your own health, especially   with people with complicated diseases, that the   doctors have no solutions. These are the people   I feel that feel the most   empowered to try new things. New   supplements, new herbal formulas and new things because   they were given up. Doctors literally gave up on   them. Or they are gaslighting them saying, oh, it's all in   your mind. Take this anti anxiety medication. There is   so many of them. This became an epidemic   now. So for me, this is the   moment of,   yeah, the people working with complementary   medicine to step out and   try to inform people, look,   this and this and this are options   if you want to try. So just to have an   educational role here that the   people don't give up on their lives. Like it's happening a lot.  

Like they just sit at home waiting   for, for a miracle to happen. But it just doesn't   happen if we don't make changes   in our lifestyle and we try different   solutions. Because until the doctors   figure out solutions for a lot of autoimmune   conditions and complex mysterious   diseases, then we can sit   down and we may, yeah,   just waste our, our time here on   the planet waiting for solutions when we can try   to empower ourselves. Oh look, this herb helped this   person. Why not give it a try? And yes,   exactly. So for me, this is also   another. Important   field that we can explore.  



[00:26:26] Unknown:

So if I hear you, you mainly see a   difference between urbanized areas and the   countryside when it comes to like.  

[00:26:34] Unknown:

Botanical knowledge or this is in   Brazil. Indeed. I totally   deviated from your question and I didn't   expect. It's a very good point.   So in Belgium,   my feeling is that most people.   It's changing now because of the work you do   and you are empowering really. In   just this 15 last years that I was   living there, the change in mentality was   huge. Right. When I arrived there, the people   were incredibly rational. I didn't see   any like you   find like fragments of   interest for foraging for   herbal medicine. M. You had to go out of your way   to order some herbs. There was like this   one shop in Ghent that   would sell plants and then you open the package and   they almost didn't smell fresh. And I was like,   wow. Or you buy   herbs in just like those little   bags, paper bags, which tasted   like, I don't know, dust from   your furniture. I don't know. So   I was very disappointed with   the, with the offering spices and, and   herbs. That was really it was   hard to find in a very progressive city   where I was living again. It was, it was incredible. The   mentality of the people were probably the most   progressive in the whole Belgium. It's   even if I didn't live, but I met a lot of people from Antwerp,   Brussels and other places. And I found the people living in   Ghent were the best. Like in terms of   progressiveness and open mindedness, but still   dealing with herbs and spices and connecting   with nature, that was not there. They were very   rational, very there was   a tendency. We're talking about generalizing about   cultural differences. Right. So making   these generalizations. So what I   felt, the work you were doing empowering other   herbalists, inspiring them to   literally fall in love with nature.  

I saw that in just the last   years. It was such a huge difference.   Everybody was talking about foraging.   Suddenly, you know, and then suddenly it's cool.   And then the restaurants, five like   Michelin star restaurants start serving   wild foods. For me. Oh, this is it.   This is how people fall in love with nature. This is how people will   understand the need for protecting nature. So   this is for me the most brilliant form   of activism that we need in the world   today to get people to connect with nature   again, to get them to understand   we are part of nature, we are   not separated and our intellect alone   will not get us there. We're not going to get solutions   from solar power, you know, we're not   going to get solutions from electric   cars. None of this is going to solve our problems. Our   problems is our lack of connection with nature,   understanding that we cannot   live without forests and clean   rivers and that by eating what's in the   wild, that's how we're going to get our health   back. You know, the   keys are all there and it's so much simpler   are then our   intellect wants us to   be and to do. We are   programmed in school to think solutions will come   from technology and perhaps they will,   perhaps they won't. They just will not answer all   our problems. So   I am very grateful to have   met you, to have been inspired by you and   to see the work you do. The work done in   Belgium is, is a huge change   mindset and respect for nature. Now there is   more people understand why you shouldn't be cutting   trees, you know, why you should protect the, the   little bit of greens that it's left   m now moving to Poland.  

This is another situation that's completely different than   goes back. It's a bit similar to Brazil in a way that   they have changed you a lot of   traditional knowledge. They are   very attached to their   culture.  

[00:31:01] Unknown:

Yes, I remember when you first,   when you just moved to Poland, you, you,   I don't know, I think we called or, or we were   writing one another and you said, wow,   leave it. They have like huge bags of   yarrow here and huge bags of. And   I've never seen this in Belgium.  

[00:31:22] Unknown:

I was like Alice in Wonderland. Really.   I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe.   Because I was really. I came here because of   nature, but I wasn't. I had no knowledge   previously of what is the culture, what, what am I   going to, to live there. I   didn't know what to expect. I didn't know the language was going to be   a million times harder than I, I thought   it was going to be. And this was one   of the most positive surprises that I can find   really high quality herbs in   normal supermarkets, just small   supermarkets in the villages, everybody   sells some things   that you were like, wow, this is   really advanced. For instance, Verbascom,   they have it in large bags, uncut, like   just chunk it out. Like they just.  

Some herbalists had their ax and   they dry it on their counter and they put it in   bags and they sell it everywhere. Everybody can find   most herbs and there is some. There's   a few herbs that they are really,   really big in selling and they send   it in large beds. You don't need to consume   herbs from, from bags. I don't need to   buy bags. You know, I buy bags of green, of   black, and green tea. Organic, but just for   guests, you know, because they like to see the   bag in their, in their mug.   And I never have to buy chamomile tea   from the delays in those little paper bags that taste   nothing like chamomile. They have   probably been there drying   for God knows how long. You know, the   taste, the flavor and certainly the,   the properties are not there anymore.  

So if you want to treat yourself with herbs, it's very   difficult I think, when you don't have access   to high quality herbs.  

[00:33:24] Unknown:

Yes. And it's a pity because sometimes then, people   come to the conclusion that the herbs don't work.  

[00:33:30] Unknown:

Exactly.  

[00:33:31] Unknown:

You don't have the good quality. Yes, it's. It   starts with good quality, of course.  

[00:33:35] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. So indeed there   is so many differences. So I,   These are the main ones. Access. I think that's   what it makes a difference. But also having access to,   to the knowledge here also in   most regular   pharmacies, drug stores, they   have also a lot of herbal   supplements from really herbal formulas,   you know, from, from high quality and at a   relatively low price. Because that's also the difference   in, in Belgium, where I. There were   amazing supplements. And, they have a few very nice   labs. Like, Ortiz was my favorite.   I love the, the work they do,   extracting the plants and getting them   standardized. They have real high quality   control. So this is also important, having high   quality supplements that will make it sure   the active ingredients are there in the   right amounts that were published, for instance,   in research. It has to be something   controlled. Otherwise it's like, oh, I tried   that, valerian, and it didn't work for me. But   if you don't have a good brand,   if you're not choosing the right   dosage, there is many factors involved   indeed in the experience. If it's going to be a positive   experience or if it's going to be something that people will just   try once and see. Oh, this was not   for me.  



[00:35:05] Unknown:

And so is it like that in Poland that.   That usually people   know which herbs they can take?   If they have like a throat ache or they have a   cold or they have some rheumatism or.   I don't know.  

[00:35:20] Unknown:

No, no, they don't. The knowledge is   going away completely, but you   still find old people who have that   knowledge. It's dissolving. It's going   away. But for instance, there's so many   beautiful stories for my neighbors that they   grew up still. They were very young. that's why it's   very difficult if they are like 45,   they. They have vague memories   from the Soviet time. But   this neighbor, just in few stories, for instance, she   has the most amazing hair. So beautiful. Probably   genetics, but I was complimenting her   hair. And she remembers that they grew up without   shampoo. There was no shampoo.  

So they washed their hair   with what they call   bakshifa, which is nettles.   They used the nettle extract. They   dried it even in the winter. they would wash it   with nettles and   massage it. And that was their   shampoo. And there were a few other herbs   that she has no idea how they're called. But they   grew up without having access to   medicines. They didn't have antibiotics.   So it. It's a total different for me. It's like,   wow, it's like in a movie. Because as much as I   feel, oh, I was lucky to have this   knowledge from a few curandeiros   in South America. It was also   rare to find that, I was just lucky that I knew   and I would, I would go for them. It's   not like they are everywhere. And certainly they're not to be found in the   urban areas where I grew up. You had to   go out of your way. But they existed   here Ah, they still exist   because this country   opened up to, to the Western   world just recently, just,   you know, less than, than what, two,   two and a half decades or something. So it's,   it's a recent three decades. Yeah, it's   30 years more or less that they, they open   their doors to,   to the wonders of civilization. To say like now   the supermarkets have a lot of plans, etc. So   no one wants to use   the things that their parents had to use, which is a   shame. So they are not proud to use   it. see, so   slowly the knowledge is going to disappear, but   you still find this. So and   because luckily the knowledge is growing in   other countries. So before it disappears   completely, now it starts growing   again with a lot of people going to   study herbalism.  



[00:38:07] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:38:08] Unknown:

You know, yes, there is a lot of herbal courses in   Varshava, in the capital, in Warsaw,   in Krakow, and there is more and more of   these courses being promoted online   also. Are, ah, they high   quality courses? I don't know, but they go on a lot of field   trips, full weekends, just   exploring different areas of the country   in different seasons. So   it looks very promising and it looks like it's going to   ignite, ignite this passion again   in the new generation of people not   to let the knowledge go down completely like   I think happened in a few European countries.  

Like it, yeah, since,   yeah, since the knowledge was   burned. Right. The knowledge was   destroyed. The traditional herbal knowledge   from the alchemists, from the druids, from all   the traditional.   Yeah, European knowledge from the   ancient folk, it was burned by the church,   basically. So that's why it's   easier to find knowledge from the   traditional tribes in the   Americas or to find them in the   Ayurveda or Chinese medicine, because they   still kept it in literature. They still kept the   knowledge alive. There was no book burnings   or less.  

Relatively.  

[00:39:37] Unknown:

Yes. It always baffles me how   this knowledge is not seen as.   I mean if a species goes extinct,   we are worried about it, but this knowledge   is also going extinct,   or a lot of things have already are already   extinct. and   it's worrisome for me, it's really worrisome because this   is like essential information about the world   we're living in. And   we need to continue this very   long line of, I mean herbal healing has always   been there. It's as old as humankind. So we   just have to, we have to find a way to   continue it and to to   incorporate more plants in our   lives and to, to see the importance of   plants in our lives. I think.  



[00:40:30] Unknown:

Yes, I completely agree. It's   so important To.   Yeah, to also try to rescue some m. Of the   ancient knowledge to dig for old books.   I got a few of the   ancient translations of   Paracelsus and Culpepper   and you know, heal the gap from Bingham. But they are,   let's face it, the language is very different. I mean even   if you translate it, it's different because   they think different.   So the way of explaining something,   we have to make some   gymnastics to understand and grasp. It   takes intuition, it takes some. But   I think it takes also trying,   you know, getting to use those herbs and what, what   is it that they really mean, you know, and those,   those planetary aspects. I find it also   another fascinating things like the   alchemist knowledge about herbs that this should be   harvested in when mercury is   aligned with with Venus. And see.  

So those things, I   find that that's another level. But I, I wanna,   I wanna go there one day, dig   deeper. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And see what's   there to be found. Because. Yeah,   yeah.  

[00:41:50] Unknown:

One thing I was also wondering, is there like   a typically Brazilian plant that   you're missing in Europe?  

[00:41:59] Unknown:

I have to confess, yes,   but it's not that simple. I have the   feeling that for instance, when I   was learning there herbs and I   had to use North American   and European books because they were already   written in, in a much more structured   way than the herbal books I could access   there. So I had to translate the herbs, learn their names in   Latin so that I could compare and try to find   equivalents in Brazil. So what is the equivalent for the.   Because a lot of plants we have the same like plantain   and dandelion and   com. For instance, we, we have a lot of similar   herbs, but some others we don't.  

And so I learned for instance   Tabebuya Villanedi, Pau Darco,   which is now today super famous. But at that   time it was like it's the   most potent plant against   cancer heals this and this and this type of   cancer were like nights research proving that.   And it was amazing. But I felt   yeah, nice. And then   I couldn't find the equivalent of that. So   whenever I had some people   with microbial infections,   fungal infections, candida, all those things that   have like, it's the root cause of, of a lot of   tumors and, and, and things. So you go to the   source some,   A lot of it goes down, comes back   to, to some   mysterious microbial   infection that the body couldn't get   rid of. So I still love this plan.  

And when I had some episode of   some stomach ulcer, I had to import   a, herb from Brazil. Like my   Tennis elicipholia. I never found something like   this in Europe and   it's. I've seen a lot of   results with patients in Brazil. Really   quick. It was a magical plant against   ulcers and, and a lot of stomach   issues. It works quick and,   and I never found something substitute for that.   So I still other, ah, plants   depending on the, on the situation.   But I have to confess that is also I still use   ashwagandha on my dogs. They had thyroid issues and a   lot of glandular issues. And   Ashwagandha balances the whole   hormonal system better than anything I find   locally. So as much as I love to use   the plants that grow in the garden and in the forest   here, I   still use plants from other countries because   I feel if I have that knowledge, I'm not going to   not use it. Yes, of course.  



[00:44:57] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:44:58] Unknown:

And I have this feeling, something tells   me that this   knowledge existed also in Europe and that because of   the burn books we will never know what was the   Ashaganda in Europe, you know,   what was the Mytenos elicifolia.   That, that's great for the stomach issues that we   find here. I believe a lot of plants that   are simple, for instance, the ones we   see every day, we don't give them enough   credit. Today I would use for my   stomach issues, I would go for the most simple   plant ever, which is plantain, together with   calendula. Voila. And that will   be it. Calendula is such a magical   plant that can heal so many viral infections   and heals ulcers. My   dogs had operations from doctors, they   never used antibiotics. I healed them   with calendula. Their wounds were like   in a week. All these teachers, no inflammation,   no issues. So I've been treating them with herbal   medicine for their entire lives. And   of course, if I have a dog with a   cardio problem, the heart is   heart failure. I adopted a dog like this. Of course they will   need some real pharmaceutical   because that has to be the precise dose   for the heart work. And then he will live longer because he   needs that. So if they have a thyroid   failure already, because the   thyroid is simply not working, they will need a thyroid   hormone. I cannot find a herb   that's going to replace thyroid hormone. But   if I had known this   earlier in their life and   anticipated, perhaps the herbs   would not have allowed these to get this far. So this   is also how I see the beautiful role of   plant medicine in preventing, things from   escalating. Absolutely. So, so there is so   multiple levels role of   plants. But I don't think we should think of, oh,   it's either Conventional medicine or herb? No,   they are all necessary depend on   the stage people are, you know,   if you have a high blood pressure today, you need a   medicine to lower your blood pressure urgently. It's your life   is depending on it. Great. But then   what is the root cause? What's causing that? So let's   work on, also on the root cause. Let's try   to find a herbal protocol and a   lifestyle change that will address   the root cause. And this is for me   what's moving me.  

Finding the root cause of things. And this   is how I feel. Herbs.   yeah, they are amazing.  

[00:47:48] Unknown:

I think it's very interesting what you say about,   you know, how we lost certain things here in Europe,   certain knowledge. And to me it sometimes   feels even.   I mean I've been working as a herbalist and a forager for   more than 20 years. But   sometimes it feels like   some pieces of the puzzle are still   there and others are just gone forever.   And this is. Yeah,   it makes   works on both sides. It also gives a lot of   room for improvement and for a   new future herbal   knowledge. But it also makes me so   sad because yeah, what I just said, it's   extinct forever. And it's just such a pity.  

It's such a pity.  

[00:48:44] Unknown:

This was exactly my feeling when I moved to   Europe that I felt how a lot of people   had their minds closed to the connection with   nature and how the knowledge was   literally burned.   Away you know, in the Middle   ages. And I felt,   I'm sure it existed here   in much as much like in so much   glory as we saw in the Chinese   medicine. With the difference that they still keep a lot   of their medical knowledge from 5,000 years   ago. The culture of herbal   treating patients is.   You can prove that because they still   have the manuscripts, they still have that   to prove. But I'm like yeah,   I studied China's medicine and that is super   well studied. But I   almost never use Chinese herbs. I   basically refuse because it's like no,   there has to be an equivalent here. And now   there was a serious bacterial   infection recent and then   I gave in and I got cop cheese, which is   a very, very powerful plant which I   would use really as last resort. But it   totally works. Some, some antibiotic   resistant bacteria. I think the future is   herbs because we are getting to a point   already where the most serious   bacterial infections are not   going to react to antibiotics   worse then the doctors will keep trying   or try this antibiotics. It doesn't work. Another one   and another one. And what happens then? Our   immune system, which is mostly reliant   on bacteria in our gut. 70%   of the bacteria in our gut is our immune   defense. We're going to   destroy all of it   with, that amount of   trial and errors of antibiotics. And   that will take all the possibility from   our body to try to fight the   new pathogen, which we were not used to it because it   mutated already in resistance to the   use of those. So for me, it's another reason   to keep investigating, to keep trying. And you   want to try something. Yeah. If your body is   still in full health and you're just having   a strep infection in your throat,   very small chances. And antibiotics will   really help. It will keep reoccurring. It will keep   coming back if you do antibiotics. Because you're not   going to empower your body to really fight it. It.  

So there is a lot of amazing antimicrobials.   And to be back to the Pau d' Arco from   Brazil. I only   got over   it when I moved to here.   And I have three large walnut trees   here, and they start falling green.   And then I look at those greenhouses. I'm like, my   God. And that's back to the books. Like Black   Walnut. How the Indians use   the green husks of the walnut   as anti. Parasitical,   antiviral, antimicrobial. It's the   most powerful antimicrobial. And that's my   Paco. And now, I'm not buying PAL D   from Brazil anymore because I have my own   walnut husk. So for me,   slowly, and by getting in contact with nature   and trying it in yourself, you   see, you get back that I had this   long Covid things, which is mostly   a lot of the symptoms are caused by a lot of   histamine release in the body. This black.  

It's not the black walnut. It's the European walnut. But the   green husks have very, very similar   properties, very similar chemicals.   So using that, I'm just   reducing the histamine use and fever   fuel also to reduce histamine. So all those   things that we just   rely so much on, pharmaceuticals that   are easy to solve with just things we   find everywhere. Can just forage for it and   make our own   eclipse or tonics.   or, things that can just have   zero side effects.  

[00:53:16] Unknown:

Yeah. So what are some of   the new. I don't know if there are any, but   did you discover any new plants in Poland?   Plants of which you didn't know they existed before?  

[00:53:31] Unknown:

Not plants, but mushrooms.  

[00:53:34] Unknown:

Uh-huh. Because this was the other part. Because. Yes,   this was also one of my questions. Because when I think about,   like, foraging in Poland, it clicks in   my mind. And it, of course, is a stereotype thing, but I   only think about mushrooms.  

[00:53:48] Unknown:

Exactly.  

[00:53:49] Unknown:

Is this still passed down from one generation to another?  

[00:53:51] Unknown:

It is, it is. And they don't want   to share the knowledge. They absolutely don't share the   knowledge, even among themselves. Oh,   it's. They have so much competition on, the knowledge from   mushrooms that you hear jokes, that   is the stereotype jokes that even the grandmothers   don't want to teach the grandchildren the knowledge   because they find it so precious.   So it's very funny. They love their mushroom   picking and they have competitions. Who   picks the most mushrooms and who knows the most   so much. They have a lot of, new   courses for herbalism   and foraging and wild plants.  

But it will be much harder to find, a   forager willing to teach the tricks for   mushrooms. Yes.   So this is very interesting, but   luckily, with the Internet and the help of   books, it's pretty   easy to learn about   the main things, the safe ones and the very poisonous   ones, that the first ones you should know is like, what is   100 safe? And then what is medium   safe? But I love to start   with the super poisonous ones that are really   common to find. And then you stay away from them.   What can look like them also stay away from them.   You know, in the beginning, first year is like, I don't want to   know the difference. Anything looking white, I'm not   touching. So that was my level 0 level   beginner, total beginner.  

And. And it's the same with plants.   you cannot learn plants from books. You   have to be exposed to them every day. You   have to watch and. And see them   grow the whole year round. Oh, this is how   they look when they are tiny, tiny babies. And this is how they are   middle. And now they are in flower. And the plants are   completely different. They have different energies, they have different   properties. And you will harvest   just the roots, but it has the right moment that you can   harvest that. So for me, it's the same with   mushrooms. You have to be in the forest every single   day in mushroom season. If   you want to learn about them, you get there a week later   because, I don't know, you were busy, you were studying, you were   doing things. You just missed that mushroom. You will never   see that again this season. So it's really   a humbling quest, you know,   for the mushroom. How come I missed them, the   honey mushrooms last year? I didn't see them. And I'm like, why?  

Oh, because I was two weeks busy doing something else and walking the   dogs on another part of the   forest. And. And then I completely missed.   And it was A total different season because it started   much earlier, the rain. So the   mushroom season shifted a month earlier. And I   was expecting the honey mushrooms in, in   September and they were never there. Perhaps they were there amongst   her here, you know, and there were other   mushrooms that I wasn't expecting. And then you see them.   But by, by seeing them every day and   comparing. Then I took pictures. It's really like   but like by being there with the mushrooms. I tried   three mushroom walks in   Belgium and it was a disaster. It was   like, man, I will never learn this. Because   if you go on a three time   walks, what are your odds to find   any mushroom at all first and if you   find like two or three, but they are in a very different stage, you   cannot see them growing in A, B, C, D,   in all the stages until they rot.  

So for me, doing   a course in any natural act,   herbs or mushrooms or something,   the key is to be in contact with them. You   cannot learn that from books or from theories. It   can have the basics helps of course,   knowing dangers and the basics, how to do   it properly, step by step. But that's   theory. That's only 5% of the work. The   rest is being busy there, looking at them, watching   them, smelling them, taste them, don't   taste them. You know,   just take, take what you can. But   being in contact for me is. This was really   the most   rewarding bonus of being in Poland   because the challenge, the cultural challenge, the language challenge, they   are huge and they are only   surpassed by all the bonus that   nature brings. And the mushrooms are such a   gift. So back to your thing.  

Did you find some herbs that are different?   I didn't. They were similar to the ones I see in   Belgium. But the mushrooms,   the mushrooms make a huge difference.  

[00:58:39] Unknown:

Yes, yes. And I totally agree about the   contact in the fields with the plants   and the mushrooms. It's just so vitally essential.   Nothing can replace it.  

[00:58:51] Unknown:

No, no, nothing.  

[00:58:53] Unknown:

Just nothing in the whole world.  

[00:58:55] Unknown:

I could have gone for an academic   course on mycology. And then you take five years and   you get a PhD and all. But then you will only   really learn about immersions. If you go to the field   and you are there and, and for   me this is it. And I find that the people in   this village are amazing and they get the knowledge from their parents,   they know what to pick. But then the knowledge is   losing. And now you see how   very few people still have that knowledge, but they also   don't want to expand and learn new mushrooms.   So I love, because my passion and my, my   fascination is I, yeah, I see something new   and nobody's speaking because they are very quick and they   wake up at 4am and they spend the whole day in the farm. So when   I go, there is basically nothing. And I   don't mind, I'm going there for the dogs. So when I find the   mushrooms extra special because wow, they left   this one for me. Amazing. But it's also suspicious   why is there so much of this mushroom?  

There has to be something with it that nobody pick   because so that's also a sign   when they don't pick. And then I go and I read   about it, like, you know, the amanitas for instance. Oh, they   are so fascinated because nobody picks amanita here.   And there is a lot to do with amanitas. And then I go   like, okay. And then I go learn   which are the differences? Like the Amanita M.   Esselsa or the Amanita   rubesens or something, you know, for like   tiny, very tiny difference. I'm not   gonna do them right now. Just giving an example.   Something that can be incredibly poisonous and   something that can be just inedible,   you know, and even medicinal.  

So the differences can be deadly. And   that's why it's important that people. It   makes sense to be very afraid, especially mushrooms.   Plants are much easier. Yeah. Much less   tricky. You learn about the poisonous plants,   you learn that, oh, this one, you don't pick when they are in   this stage, etc. And that's very black   and white. The fungal kingdom   is a total different kingdom. And   yeah, it sparks a total new area   of my heart and brain.  

[01:01:10] Unknown:

Yes. And it also goes very fast.   Right. I mean, if you have plants, then you see   them for months in a row and   how they evolve and make new   shaped leaves and everything. But with the   mushrooms, it's just like the time frame   in which you can get to know them is just a lot   smaller than what it plants.  

[01:01:32] Unknown:

It's very, very tricky. And this is   the thing I feel if I would say who   were your best foraging and   herbal features? It was my dolls.   There was no books or any master sister and   anyone. And I love all my teachers and everybody,   every mentor. I crossed paths if they were amazing.   But no one brought with so   much knowledge as my dogs because they take me to nature   every single day. Even when I was the most busy   and when I had to squeeze   they have five hours of sleep because I wanted to   walk them and I wanted to take them to night nature places.   But they was, they were bringing me to   foraging places and two things. And they were showing me, mom,   look at this plant growing here. And I would go   and sniff the plant with them. Really. I   don't know if I should be confessing this, but they   teaching me to take and go and   sniff because I wanted to experience what they were feeling.  

They were showing me when the   sieve, the. The whole juices of some   trees were coming, when there was still winter. They   were sniffing the plant like from the bottom   to top. Like I'm like, oh,   in a week this plant will have leaf and I   will, you know, they were showing me so   many signs. They could. I don't know if they could   smell or hear or what it was that they had.   They would show me so many interesting things   that I learned from observing from.   From feeling nature.  

[01:03:04] Unknown:

Super fascinating.  

[01:03:05] Unknown:

Yes. So they were my number one thing. Roaches.   Yeah. No one else. And the same with the mushrooms. They go   and they teach me because they bring me to the forest no   matter the weather. It could be stormy, could be snowy, could be.   Let's go, mommy. And then there we go to the   forest and hey, another   meal. I come back with half a kilo of mushrooms because   they just took me to a forest and I'm having   every day for four months with   mushrooms every day next to them.   Yeah, it's another level. So. So   I'm. I'm very humbled by the   chance to be connected with nature. It makes us feel so   small, but also part of it.  

It's at the same time you are big because you are one   atom in that immensity   of power. So you are, you are part of that   power in a way. Right?  

[01:03:58] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:03:59] Unknown:

I don't know. Yeah.  

[01:04:01] Unknown:

So what is the legal   framework when it comes to both foraging and   herbalism in Poland? Is it like.  

[01:04:10] Unknown:

Poland is like this? Because   the short answer is there isn't   any legal constraint   because they are still very much   in a gray zone, you see. So   basically, and this is a little bit of a shame   because of course there is a lot of scammers and a lot of   people who will be deceiving. But you see this in every   field, right? and I see a lot of   people call themselves naturopaths and   they have just follow a one year course online   and now they have some diploma whatever.   But how can they have experience enough in the human   body in. In the field of feeding   if they haven't gone through so many years of experience   life, you see. So for me   the legal constraints here are. They are not   officialized. There is very few things   and a lot of people can call themselves herbalists. And   it was like this in Brazil back then   with the field of the current datas indeed   that anyone could say they are current data.  

And what is the difference? For me, what counts   is also to focus on   what really matters is you have the   knowledge or you don't. And when you start   showing that you can help people, that you can expose, that you   can share your knowledge with others and it's being   applied and tested, this will give   you credibility. Just by   showing that it does work, this knowledge is   really there. You can check it in books, you can   check it in the practice, you can just. So I think   we are back to   the old fashioned thing like don't   trust just anyone. You have to   know who is reliable, who   is not. And I think making things legal   will not change that. And I know I'm   probably going forward with your   don't know. Probably not the answer you want, but the short   answer. There is nothing very legal here and I   think this is not going to solve. I see, for instance in the US where   everything is very official and legal and you have to be   certified and board certified and have to go through all the things   and still you have. If you have only   academic training in the field of   clinical herbalism. You still know nothing   how to help people. You have no   real life contact with the plants. You didn't   really have at least 500 patients   with similar symptoms to compare. Why did   this herb worked on that and not on this one? So   experience is what makes a difference, I think.  

And this is what people should be going for   when they think of credibility. They shouldn't go for   who has the most,   renowned diploma. Oh, this person has a PhD   in clinical herbalism. What does that really mean?   You know, how, how many patients   did this person work with in   practice? And   yeah, so, so I think in the end the   people who have the knowledge, they will just be   credible by proving themselves   and having the knowledge that   really works and is effective. And   we see that with for instance, homeopathy. Why   homeopathy is such a,   has such a bad reputation because   it's probably easier to find the,   I don't know, to see a unicorn than to find   a real decent homeopathic   practitioner. You know, it takes like 20,   30 years of real knowledge,   practicing, studying deeply to understand   what homeopathy is. You will not find   them just everywhere. It just doesn't   matter. In, in Belgium, I remember I went to like, I don't know,   four different homeopaths and they were really doctors,   trained doctors because that's how it works in Belgium.  

To work with the natural healing, you need to be also a   doctor. So   they had they had no knowledge of   homeopathy and it was just a waste of time and   money. And then I understand why people say, oh, homeopathy   doesn't work. No, yeah, indeed it doesn't.   If you don't know how to practice, then, yeah,   if you have a negative experience with that.   But then you find one good homeopath, which I   was lucky to find. And that's the only way   I could understand that it really is   powerful. And then I had tried my dog   to. To fix some skin diseases, a dog I found on   the streets. And this   homeopathist there, more than an hour listening to his   case, looking at the dog, testing him and   getting to know him. And she gives me one   single homeopathic remedy.  

and in two weeks, the dog there never had   any symptom anymore. I never had to apply   anything. And I tried several, several products.   Nothing was working. This one remedy giving   just three days in a bowl, and that was it   forever. He never had that skin issue. And it was   just. He had Menge, by the way, was like   a very serious, infection m on the skin. He   had no hair. The hair couldn't even grow anymore. It was a   very advanced level. And this homeopathy, and   this lady was amazing, but she knew what   she was doing. And you don't find this kind of   practitioners everywhere, unfortunately.  

so even though some people may have the   title, they did the course, they followed all the   protocols that they have. They're certified   homeopaths. And I don't think that will   make them a good practitioner.   This I don't know if it   illustrates.  

[01:10:04] Unknown:

Yes, it takes time to build   knowledge and also to build   some kind of intuitive feeling, I think.   you know, this kind of. It's hard to put it in   words, but, yes, and some   empathy for the patients, of course, and   getting to know the patient and. Yeah.   And when it comes to foraging, what is the   legal frame there? Are you allowed to pick   everywhere, Justin?  

[01:10:31] Unknown:

No, no, no, no. Okay. That is   a lot of rules. And that is the protected. For instance,   lion's mane is protected. You   cannot pick, a certain amount of mushrooms. That   is a total. There is a lot of legal framework   for, for the work with nature, for foraging, but there   is just no implementation of that.   Nobody's ever going to get fined.  

[01:10:52] Unknown:

One of the things is that. That I saw your Instagram   account is called Regenerative   Herbalism, right?  

[01:10:59] Unknown:

Well, yes, I'm working on a different project now.   Okay. Because,  

[01:11:03] Unknown:

Tell me all about it.  

[01:11:04] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. It's like my passion for   plants were always connected also with the   feeling of like   everything in nature is here to help each   other and to sustain life and   to, to, to support each other. So   I had a lot of these in Belgium. What made   me start my initial blog of   healing weeds. Very old blog   and there's no updated things there. But it was   like I made this Facebook page and all was an   attempt to get people to understand the wild   herbs growing in the gardens and that they would love   their plants and understand why they are there and they   are much richer and much more important   for wildlife than their grass. You   know, so this was the main point. I felt   it was initially as activism. Try   to get the people to love that. Look, this is incredibly   healthy for you. Also that you don't eat just   lettuce from, from the shop   because there has basically very little   nutritional value for   you when, when wild plants will add so   much more. They have polyphenols, they have a lot of   phytonutrients that you cannot even   list. So many they are, you know, and they   will feed the healthy bacteria in your gut that you   didn't know they were still alive. They are sometimes barely alive and you   start feeding them wild plants and then   they, they just sprout to life   again. So all those things I tried to   share there, the knowledge of, let's   put a few plants that are very common in the garden. Let's   try to see if more people love their plants   growing. Oh look, this one. I recognize it. So I think   this is the thing. The role of a herbalist today   is to get people to really love   what they see in the garden, to understand   the role of those plants, of   biodiversity and   get the feeling of connecting with them again.  

That we will need grass. You know, if the grass   grows spontaneously, leave it. But if other plants are growing,   let them be. Let them have their   role to play and understand them   and connect with them.   Why are they growing there? You know. And then there is those things   and then about a lot of French books about why the   plants are growing there. You know what it means a lot of   comfrey growing on a certain area. Why is   it growing? What it means for the soil health.   So regenerative   means several things   for the, for the project I'm working on now.   So it will be about sharing the knowledge of   how the plants help soil   regeneration. How they   help to recover insect   species and birds   and how the plants can help our body to   regenerate their cells back to health.  

So it's on many levels. The,   the aspect of. Because it was in the past, in the   80s were like it was called like natural   therapies and, and conventional therapies.   But I feel the name natural has been so overused   and it's basically meaningless at   this point. Because everything is natural, right? If   everything came from this planet in the end,   even the plastic I'm using could be considered   in the end natural. In a   way, they came from fossil fuels. You know, they are   natural. They come from, from this planet.   So in a way. So if you want to make a stretch, everything   in the end is natural. So for me this is not about being   natural enough. It's about. There are   things that are synthesized in a lab, but   they're like. They're extracted from plants or from, from   something, but they will help your body to regenerate   itself. So it doesn't matter if   it's literally naturally as it   came, for instance, that those   cardiovascular medicines that we use, you   cannot use Lily of the valley as it is   to, to help your heart. You just can't, I mean,   don't do it. But if you have it   come from a lab, it's already standardized, it will   come with those substance, the   active substance will be totally well   dosed. So that's a brilliant use   for lab applications. So is that   natural? It doesn't matter. You know, it's helping   somebody's heart to live longer.  

So for me, the, the term   regenerative is like   I, I got m. Closer to it in permaculture and   that was the main reason to move to   Poland, which was a little bit part of your. Your   question. some time ago   it was about growing a food forest   that would be aligned with the concepts of permaculture,   which is the concept of we are here   as healers of the soil, as guardians of   the planet. And if I have a little piece of land where I can   put some love and let the plants   grow and help each other. So,   so that they are like working in   symbiosis as they would do in nature. We   just blocked them from doing by adding   unnecessary plants to it and adding too   high concentration of grass in a large   area by compacting the soil with   our activities. So there is a lot of things that   I want to I think that is this   educational work, a lot of it to   be done on this field of regenerating ourselves,   reconnecting with nature,   bonding again with the soul of things,   with, with the universe, with what's powering that.  

Why is this plant growing? Is that something that   can teach me something? So, you know,   being humble also to be   learning from nature all the time. And I think this,   there is so many keys that we can get   from our connection with nature.   That's a,   daily workshop.  

[01:17:18] Unknown:

Yes. And I think plants also   have some solutions for a lot of   the problems that we are facing today and in the   future. Like the whole food   supply thing and the the soil   erosion and the loss of biodiversity   and you know, climate change   and it's. People   always have the tendency to think   or to look for answers far   away, but it may be just right under.  

[01:17:51] Unknown:

Your feet and much simpler.  

[01:17:54] Unknown:

Yes. We're not paying enough attention to these   very common wild plants that   are so powerful. They're really like.   Yes, power heroes.  

[01:18:08] Unknown:

They really are.  

[01:18:10] Unknown:

So when it comes to eating, wild plants,   what is like the plant that you probably eat most   on a daily basis or almost daily   basis?  

[01:18:22] Unknown:

That's nettles and dandelions. I'm very   classic. But they are, but they are   also abundant. They are abundant. They are   so many. That is those tiny, very special   plants that I see growing that I could know. They're so   tiny and they're so, you know,   nothing. Huge amounts. And then there   is areas where the dogs have to walk   and that will need to be mold. And   it's. Yeah, it's very   difficult for me to have that to, to have the   machine going just in a few places where so the   dogs can walk. I cannot let the grass grow a,   meter high. And slowly   every year we get less and less grass. It's all being   replaced by the other plants, crawling plants and   creepers and. Oh. And I find it's going   so much quicker than I expected. So that is very,   that is much, much less   to cut. And we do it very,   very little. And the neighbors probably are not so happy   about it. But luckily it's not Belgium because   in Belgium they would already have called the cops because,   oh, they have high grass. Yeah, the neighbors we had   there were that type. So that was   also partly the reason why I felt, oh, it   needs more, you know, awareness. People understand   the importance of a wild garden.  

So yeah, I love that we can keep a wild   garden. Yeah, that is no big deal. They   probably look strange. But we are foreigners. We are strange   anyway, so there is literally zero to   lose. There is no reputation to be kept   or something. You know, you don't have to keep your name.   They would judge you anyway because you are a foreigner. So   you might as well have your garden look as weird as you.   And then I feel really a green   light to totally not have to   adjust and do. And we want to make a   board. Those I've seen in the Internet Somewhere people   say, like, I don't know,   don't worry, about the lions we are   feeling, feeding the bees or something, or don't   worry about the wildness of our cat.  

don't get scared or whatever. We are   going to think about something catchy that   we can put at the gate that people don't   get so worried, like, oh, what's happening here?   So many plants.  

[01:20:47] Unknown:

Yeah. And by the way, I totally agree about the   nettles and the dandelions. They're probably the ones that   I eat most as well.   yeah, they're just. Especially the nettles. They are just   so easy to add to pretty   much everything.  

[01:21:03] Unknown:

Yes. Yeah. And I don't feel any. I'm   sorry. Because they go also so quickly and they are   everywhere in my garden. They do so. And I don't want to scare   the Negro, so it helps me to eat them even more because   I know if there is too many Naples, too   visible, then they could probably   be worried. So I keep. It's an   abundant source of nutrients and they   are so neutral. They fit with every dish,   pretty much.  

[01:21:30] Unknown:

I think it should be a staple for everyone.  

[01:21:32] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. It. It's really, really   powerful.  

[01:21:36] Unknown:

There is enough nettles in the world. You can. You   can eat it. And, And it.  

[01:21:41] Unknown:

It's.  

[01:21:41] Unknown:

It's the ultimate regenerative plant.  

[01:21:44] Unknown:

Exactly, exactly. So we adding one page on   the Net. Oh, my God. I. I absolutely love   them. And I dry for the winter and we   eat the seeds also, totally ground and   like supplements.  

[01:21:58] Unknown:

Yes. Because in Poland, I can imagine   the winters are a lot harsher than in   Belgium.  

[01:22:04] Unknown:

They were harsher and they were longer. But not this   year. So perhaps we are getting the climate from   Belgium soon because. Yeah.  

[01:22:11] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:22:12] Unknown:

Climate change is happening now. Quick.  

[01:22:15] Unknown:

Yes, it is totally happening.  

[01:22:18] Unknown:

So this year it was really very similar when I see.   Normally the plants here would start growing almost   two months later than in Belgium.   Now it was very similar when I saw a plant growing. Oh, look,   it's already growing in my garden, too. very scary.   Yeah. Very quick.  

[01:22:35] Unknown:

Yeah. Uh-huh. And do you   dry a lot of your. Or do you preserve in any   other way?  

[01:22:41] Unknown:

yes, I. I dry a lot of plants,   but I. And I dried my mushrooms, too. I've been eating   mushrooms every day the whole winter.   There's dry mushrooms every single day.   And. And I pickled   mushrooms and I prepared the   plants also in jars like   jam and. Yeah.   Tinctures. There is a lot of tinctures everywhere.   There is. I shouldn't confess   this openly, but there is a Few bottles I forgot to   label and I don't know what they are. So   I mean from many, many years ago. But   I still smell. It's so fresh. I will find   out what they are at some point.  

[01:23:27] Unknown:

I think this is true for every   herbalist. yes,   I always, and I always tell my students, don't   forget to label your jar or your bottle   or whatever. But, today, not in a   week.  

[01:23:42] Unknown:

Yeah, today, not in a week, Next   week. You already stashed so many bottles on top   of those ones that you. How come is this without   lab.  

[01:23:52] Unknown:

Exactly. That's how it happens.   Yes.  

[01:23:57] Unknown:

So some of them are still. Oh, they smell amazing. But I feel.   How can I not recognize? So I feel when I   make a new tincture from the same plant,   I will finally make the link. Ah. it was this one.   So.  

[01:24:09] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:24:09] Unknown:

Yeah, I'm m not throwing them away yet.  

[01:24:11] Unknown:

Yeah.   Maybe this is interesting to ask the   listener how much jars and bottles they   would have in their cupboards   and, and closets and. Yes. Just   lost somewhere in the house.   Yeah, I'm sure everyone has them.   Really? Really.   So,   yeah, this is, this is   one of the questions that I usually   ask all of my guests. We've,   we've been talking about witchcraft before in the   beginning. So. And this is   also something that will be different just to, to   look at from, you know, the different perspectives,   country wise. have you ever   been called a witch? Or   did people tell you that you would have been burned,   if you were born in another time or   like, did, did this happen in Brazil, in Belgium   and Poland?  



[01:25:16] Unknown:

It happened on three countries already. Yes.   Oh yes.   It's. Yeah. I decided to embrace it because if   you are different.   Yeah. You will be called the witch one way or another,   whether you have a lot of bottles of   tincture in your house or not. And now   that's not going to make a difference. You have   a different way of experiencing nature. Right.   It's like how you deal with   the plants, how you connect with the animals.   It's something different about you. And   I think most humans in our culture, we are   not taught to accept   diversity, to embrace somebody   that's not looking like what the school wanted us   to look like and to behave like and to think like,   especially the way of thinking   is what I think   make people think other people who are different, who   are more connected with nature, who have more   knowledge on some fields that they will be   immediately labeled a, witch. But it's just   because we lack the knowledge to,   to understand what's, what's in there.  

What, what is it about that person that   they feel more connected. Why do they wanna   have so many plants hanging all over the house?   So all those things, of course, they,   I'm sure it's not just for herbalists. You know,   people who love animals and save a lot of cats   and. And a lot of things. There is a lot of things that will   already make people think you are looking like a witch. Why don't   you cut your hair like everybody else is cutting   or wearing a certain type of   fashion? You know, that is how people dress or how   they. They eat. Oh, yeah. How they eat is   also, indicative of being called the   witch because you use so many plants.  

yeah.  

[01:27:15] Unknown:

I think it's particularly interesting that you have   heard this in all three countries.  

[01:27:20] Unknown:

I did. And it's sometimes in a funny way,   and then it's okay. And sometimes it's   in a way that you feel worried, like,   what's next? You know, if   it was legal,   I don't know. I think in some cultures, they would still   burn people who are different. Because the level   of human acceptance   of diversity has not   really improved so much improved   in. In certain circles of progressive people,   intellectuals. But I don't know. In. In the   real, normal people,   like working   people living normal lives, they don't have time   to. To understand what's happening   in different cultures or in different, mindsets   or they only know people like them. For instance,   those, in the case of my village, they understand them.  

People going to church, you   see, everyone not going to church is already,   I don't know, one step closer to being   called witcher, heretic, at least.   You see. So there is a lot of cultural   background and. And that will cloud how   people will see the world and perceive.   So. Yeah. Okay.   Yeah. So.  

[01:28:42] Unknown:

So, Lyra, thank you so much   for this wonderful conversation.  

[01:28:47] Unknown:

Yes, it was a pleasure sharing this with you.  

[01:28:51] Unknown:

So if people want to find   out about your work, where can they find   more info?  

[01:28:58] Unknown:

I am still working on the website on this new   project, which is the   regenerative herbalism.   And at this moment, I will put the link on my   Facebook page, Healing weeds. So the   healing Weeds is the closest I can have. All   right. The Facebook page and my Instagram,   but it's a work   in progress still.  

[01:29:23] Unknown:

I'm really looking forward to hearing more   about this project because I.  

[01:29:27] Unknown:

Thank you.  

[01:29:28] Unknown:

I totally agree with what you think are the   most important things about   herbalism and about working with plants. I'm just.   I feel like we're totally on the same page.  

[01:29:41] Unknown:

Yes. We were always.   We will forever be our herbal   sisters and soul sisters.   Yes. I'm very happy just knowing that you are there doing   this work. It doesn't matter. The geographical   distance makes no   difference. My heart is there, totally   connected with your work you're doing. Thank you so much.  

[01:30:04] Unknown:

My heart is exploding hearing those words.  

[01:30:07] Unknown:

Really?  

[01:30:07] Unknown:

Wow.  

[01:30:07] Unknown:

It's.  

[01:30:08] Unknown:

Thank you so much.  

[01:30:09] Unknown:

Thank you too.  

[01:30:12] Unknown:

So dear wildling that is listening or   that was listening, thank you so much for   still being here. I hope to see you in the next   episode and in the meantime, keep powdering   your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye Bye.   A warm thank you for listening.   Wildy, are you feeling a   wild itch after this episode? Well, just   head over to wildplantforager.com and   feel free to connect with me on social media.   I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope   you'll be there, but for now just   go outside and follow your   wild heart.