WYLDE

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François Couplan is a forager, ethnobatanist, wild chef, traveller, and published author of more than 120 books on wild edible plants, herbal medicine and culinary botany.
He has 50 years of experience as a teacher, and over 70 years of life experience. 
Even as an infant, he was already turned on by plants, so that's where his journey with plants begins, and where we start our conversation.

About growing up in Paris, and seeing green everywhere, even in the city.

About how it's always easier to relate with plants than it is with people.

About being young in the 60s and 70s and developing an interest in a different, more psychedelic kind of plants.

About how he discovered botany and ethnobotany and how he started teaching and writing books. 

About dropping out of society, living in the woods and evaluating your basic needs.

About how nature is always there, even when we are destroying it.

About the problem with cultivating plants and agriculture, and how everything is humanized.

And lots more.


You can find more information about François and his work on the website:
https://couplan.com/
Most of his books are available in the webshop, including my favourite: https://couplan.com/livres/remedes-et-recettes-a-lortie/

Or follow him on Instagram @harmonie_plantes_sauvages



François also mentions the book "Food for free" by Richard Mabey. A complete guide to help you safely identify edible species that grow around us, together with detailed field identification notes and recipes.

🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.


If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚


🎼 music by Eva LaRuna

Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.

[00:00:00] Unknown:

Hi, Wildling. Hey. I'm still   looking for some more interesting.   Guests on, European herbalism   and foraging.   So if you know anybody that would want to be   a guest in my podcast series, please feel   free to reach out and contact me through social   media.   Wildplant Forager, or through my website,   wildplantforager.com.   Thank you so much.  

[00:00:26] Unknown:

Much.  

[00:00:31] Unknown:

Welcome to Wild,   the podcast for Wildlings. Just   like you wildlings who want to   transform the prevalent plant blindness   to collective plant wisdom.   my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a   herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium   since 2. 2002. In   those years, I've seen a lot of changes.   Working with plants has become more popular,   but I've also seen time   is running out for our planet.   As foragers and herbalists in   Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different   plant species and different cultural   approaches towards plants. In   some countries, working with plants is   licensed, and in others, it's almost   illegal. I believe   that together we can learn from one another   and be stronger. There is   nothing more empowering   than connecting wild souls.  

Together we can have a greater impact   on restoring the ancient link between   people and, and plants.   And that's why for this podcast series,   I'm talking to fellow herbalists and   foragers in Europe. So if you're   ready to find out what you've never been   told, but what your soul already   knows, welcome to   Wild.   Welcome wildly to this new episode of the   Wild podcast. And today I'm sitting here   with sweaty hands because here   is a very big forager   ethnobotanist, author of   50 books on wild edible plants,   herbal medicine, culinary botany. I've   only read a few of those books, and his   tiny book on lorti, the Stinging Nettle,   is one of my favorites. Here is Francois   Coupland. Welcome.  



[00:02:42] Unknown:

Hi.   Glad to be with you tonight.  

[00:02:47] Unknown:

It's so nice to have you here.   So, let's start with the beginning. How   did your love for plants get started?   Because you have more than 50 years of   experience. How did it all get started?  

[00:03:02] Unknown:

50 years of experience teaching. But I'm   74, you know, and I got started right from   the start, so I think I've   got over 70 years of experience for sure.  

[00:03:13] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:03:14] Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's no big deal anyway.   I mean, it's just. It was just a natural thing for   me. You know, My mother was an alpinist. We were living in   Paris. We were living in Paris, in the big city.   But even in the big city, you know, there are   plants, there are still our plants, you know.   And anytime I would see   anything green or a   flower or whatever, I was just turned on. You know. We had   like a country house just outside of Paris.   And I don't know,   it was my. My life, it was my environment. It   was my relationship with   plants. my relationship with the world   anyway was Not.  

I mean, did definitely include a relationship   with plants, animals as well, you know, people.   I ah, had a much easier time relating to plants than   relating to people actually. And I Believe   it's It's right.   You know, people are a lot more difficult to   deal with than plants, I believe.   So. And also   as I said, my mother was an alpinist. And she was in love with   the mountains. She. Especially the high mountains, you know, the. The   Alps, the Mont Blanc and all that area. But   when she had kids she couldn't climb up to the   summits, you know. So We would go on   vacation for a month, sometimes over a   month, two months, in.  

That was in savoir.   And we would just be there,   you know, run around, go around, walk around.   and my mother would show me plants.   I would g. Raspberries and strawberries   and blueberries,   and mushrooms. And mushrooms   too. You know. It was just A very natural way   of life for me. You know. That's only when I   grew up in Paris, you know, that   I realized that ah, people see   the world differently. You know. My,   classmates, They were not that   interested in plants, you know.   And then when I grew up,   I got turned on to rock and roll. I got turned on   to plants but you know,   smokable plants and that kind of stuff,   you know. And All   types of different Way   of changing my mind.  

And   That was That was a very,   very intense. Very, very intense   part of my life.   But I still kept the connection with   plants, with nature anyway. And at one point I   had a breakdown, you know, because I was doing too much   Stuff. Drugs and whatever, you know, and playing   rock and roll in a band. And that was heavy.   That was tough, you know, in a big city. I would   spend all my time in London, you know, sleeping out   in the parks and dropping acid and whatever. Not   And listening and playing to music. So   that was. That was too intense. And   I broke down and I had the chance that the The   physician who dealt with me didn't   Gave give m me pills and whatever, but   suggested that would. That I go out to the country.  

And I did. And there I met. That was in the east   of France, I met an older man. I   mean, I was 16 at the time, you know, he was over   80. he was   a schoolteacher. He had   been, wounded in World War I. And   he was a poet and he was a   botanist. Botanist and poet.   So he taught me, botany,   from the poetry he was writing,   you know, that was just   amazing. again, it was natural for   me, you know. I mean, I didn't learn from   textbooks. I learned from   poems, you know, and from   hands on experimenting, being out   there in the wood. As he couldn't walk   very, very, very well because he had been   wounded, he would give me   direction. Tell me, you go to, you   go to this place and you'll find this plant, you   know, like woodruff or or   morning, What is it?  

Rosseli. You know.   Drosera.  

[00:07:53] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  

[00:07:54] Unknown:

Carnivorous plant.  

[00:07:55] Unknown:

Yes, yes, I know.  

[00:07:57] Unknown:

So anyway,   then, I   decided to run   around France to make   Ah, well, Western Europe actually, but say a   tour de France of   hallucinogenic plants. Psychedelic   plants. Yeah. Because I was very much into it at the time.   Yeah, yeah, very much so. And   it definitely was a failure.   I didn't find really anything interesting,   you know, I had some   weird and not so pleasant   experiences. So I just dropped it, you   know.   And I   decided, okay,   something important that happened in my   life was when I was 18.   I was born in 1950. So when I was   18 was 68, you know, and May   68 in Paris. I was in Paris because   would be a long story. But anyway, you know, I come from a family   of peasants   in Brittany. Poor people, very poor people.  

And my grandfather. And then my father, got out   of their,   Of their background, you know, rural   background. My mother. My   father joined the   army and he graduated,   I don't know, what's the word? I mean, he, he became an   officer anyway, you know, so as   he had climbed up the social   ladder, it was my turn to   go from there and move up and be a part of   the French, social   elite. You know, so   that's that. The studies I was doing, you   know, polytechnique, that kind of stuff.   But then in May 68, I just dropped out   because I wasn't interested at all. You know,   I wasn't. I was interested in   plants, I was interested in music. I wasn't   interested in   learning math and   becoming a engineer or   businessman or whatever, you know. Not at   all. So anyway, after that   and a few other things, I decided,   Since the society I'm living in   is, not bringing me what I'm looking for.  

I didn't know what I was looking for actually. But I knew   what I was not looking for. I knew very   definitely what I didn't want. And   that was something very basic, very strong.   So I thought about it and   came to the conclusion that if I don't like the   society that I'm living in, I just have to   split. And if I want to split, what do I   need, you know. So I really got   into my basic needs, you know, into evaluating   my basic needs. And my basic needs are, very simple actually.   You know, air to breathe. I can't go more than a few   minutes without air. Water to drink. I can   go more than a few days without water.  

And then,   food.   I can't go for more than a month   without food, you know. So as   I had already,   practical knowledge of wild edible   plants, turned   towards them and sort of   gave me a crash course myself,   you know, because there wasn't anybody to teach   me anything. There wasn't any book around.   Actually the one book that came first, book I   got, that came up later. Later.   That was later.   Anyway, it was Food for Free by Richard Mabie.  

[00:11:54] Unknown:

Yes, I have that book too.  

[00:11:55] Unknown:

Yeah, excellent book. But it came out later, so I didn't have   anything to rely on except that I met,   an uncle of mine was sort   of, cast, away from the family because he was a   vegetarian. He had been a vegetarian for 40 years.   And we were very big meat eaters because as we   came from poor background, eating   meat was a way to show off   social, status.   Great. And I loved meat, you   know, I enjoyed it. But when I was 20, I got   sick. I really got sick.   And medicine didn't   understand anything about it, you know.   but when I talked with my uncle who was a vegetarian, he told me,   hey, come on. I was eating meat three times a day,   you know, three   times a day, every day. There was definitely too much.  

So. And he told me, I mean, we talked a   lot and he had developed his   own philosophy for some good reasons.   And so he showed me another side   of life that I didn't know   from my, French,   Parisian, petit bourgeois background, you know.   So I started to see life differently and   honed up my skills and you know, I was   ready to go. And then,   I moved on. I spent a year in   Corsica doing my military service. And there I   discovered ethnobotany because there was   an older woman there who had   developed ethnobotany in Corsica.   Marcel Conrad. And that's the first   time I learned I heard of the word. And   I started, trying to grasp the concept of   physical botany. You know, relationships study. The   study of the relationship between people   and plants. So as   I had a lot of time during my military   service, I wasn't doing much, you know. I started   taking notes. I started writing my first book, as a   matter of fact. And,   learning from this woman   and from people I met, you know, ah, gathering   information from people who knew,   the local traditions about local plants.  

And then I moved to the U.S. actually,   I was going to India, but   as, quite a few of my friends, you know,   The road to Kathmandu, you know, the thing.   And quite a few of my friends had been there, but some of them   didn't come back for some very bad   reasons, you know, linked to drugs and things.   And, I decided. But I was very,   very turned on, by all   these spiritual trips and things like that. But I   decided to go to America first   because rock and roll was still one of my big   things.   And the west coast, rock and roll, you know, with Grateful   Dead and, Frank   Zappa and especially Jefferson Airplane.  

M. Yeah, that   really turned me on. But anyway,   anyway, I sort of got lost in the way, you   know. I eventually made it   to the west coast, but then I ran into   healing festivals. there was   the post hippie period on the west   coast, you know, in 1970,   1970s, you know, I got there in   1974.   but the first thing I did was to   split off.   I was staying in Santa Barbara with friends and I   decided to just go. Just go. And I just   went, you know, and I just,   went and lived in the woods for months at a time.   And, But   I knew things about plants, and I was still   doing research in the libraries. And then   I would, experiment with what I had   learned and then   learn some new things, Experiment, write   down, what I had learned, take notes and   everything. So I was building up a   knowledge, from my own   experiences, from what I learned, especially   about the traditions of   Indians in the. In North   America. Putting it together,   living it, living it. Actually living it, you know.  

And then I ran into these, healing festivals, as I said.   And I spent my next 10 years   on the west coast, at first   learning from people, and then quickly, you know,   this festival, that kind of thing where people come   and, with no definite   purpose, besides just being together and   sharing, you know. And sharing. What   did I have to share? I didn't know. I had not a clue   about that, you know. So   at first, I,   joined a nurb walk. Somebody was giving a   nurb walk. And I said, oh, well, great. I'm going to learn something,   you know, I'm going to learn something new. And   it happened that actually it was was I   who was answering people's questions and   showing people things, I mean, plants and everything   and telling them about them, you know, So I   realized I had some knowledge and other people   realized I had this knowledge. And so at the end of the   herb walk, they told me, well, you know, I mean,   obviously you know more than we do, so,   next time, it's up to you. I didn't   expect that, but it was great. It was a   great boost for my   ego anyway, you know, it's great when people tell you   that, I mean, you know something, you're good.  

so, okay, yes.  

[00:17:49] Unknown:

Isn't that strange how our own knowledge is   very often like a blind spot to ourselves? Right.  

[00:17:55] Unknown:

I see it with a lot of my students, you know, now I have   students who have   been working for quite a while and they know, they   definitely know something, but very often   they're just blocked up because they don't have confidence in   themselves.  

[00:18:10] Unknown:

Yes, yes, I see the same with my students. Yeah,   yeah.  

[00:18:14] Unknown:

So sometimes we have to push people. So I got a big   push there, but it was very nice. And then at one   point, some of these, business   minded American people, you know, told me, hey, come   on, come on, man. I mean, with the   knowledge you have, you couldn't make your own business,   you know, start teaching. And it was   1975 and I started doing it, you know,   I think doing. I started,   giving plant, plant walks, you know, herb   walks, plant courses in the east coast and   developed my own thing. Well, actually something else I had been   doing, you know, because I was just meeting   just a bunch of people, you know, just hundreds of   people in the west coast then. And,   one big thing that made me very popular,   that when people heard about my   knowledge of plants and edible plants, and   as I was French, you know, French people win   on two levels. One is   food, the other one is love. hey,   you know, amazing. Oh,   it was post hippie time, you know, it   was peace and love, you know,   and food. So I became the wild   chef. It was   excellent because people will tell me, you know, you come to a   place, you stay as long as you want, and all we   ask you is to cook us some wild dinners. We   invite friends over and   it's up to you, you know, all right, So I would   run around and gather plants and,   look around in the cupboards, Ask them to   run some errands, you know, get some food. And Well, I   would cook them some, Some wild feast. Yes, very,   very. And it, it was an excellent   school because it forced me to be. Create creative, you know.  



[00:20:04] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:20:04] Unknown:

You know, I didn't know what, what   they would have in their. In the fridge.   I didn't know what I would find as far as plants   go. I mean, you know,   after a while I. I knew my way around,   so it worked fine. So anyway,   that was just, I wouldn't say bliss, but   a lot of it was bliss, you know. But not only, not   only, you know.  

[00:20:30] Unknown:

Yes.   And I'm curious to know if.   So you've traveled places. Did   you see like a difference   in basic botanical knowledge   in different countries or regions?  

[00:20:47] Unknown:

at the time I was staying,   I did a few travel here and there, but I was staying   mostly for 10 years really in the US in   Mexico, Guatemala, Central America and things like that.   I did explore   pretty much all of the   48 states, I mean, plus Hawaii.   I didn't go to Alaska, but really I was just running   around. I was just running around all the time. You know,   when I got it in the morning, I didn't know where I, would be sleeping   that night. You know, somebody might just drop by   and say, oh, you know, there's something happening out there in   Montana, you know, who wants to join?  



[00:21:27] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:21:29] Unknown:

And I would go. And of course, I mean, I had my   books, you know, had my   California flora, my Arizona floor. after a   while, as a matter of fact, I mean, I bought a bus, a bit   about a video VW van,   you know, to to host my,   my library because, you know, I was accumulating   quite a few plant books. That's   a great idea of the time. I mean. Yeah, I wish   I could then m. Could find them back because,   I would have a lot of rarities there.  

[00:22:01] Unknown:

Yes. Treasures.  

[00:22:03] Unknown:

Yeah. Really. Well, I still have. I have a   library right behind me. You see a bit of it   with 3,000 books, you know.  

[00:22:11] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:22:11] Unknown:

I got quite a few.  

[00:22:13] Unknown:

Impressive.  

[00:22:14] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whenever you want to come, you're welcome if   you want to browse, you know, in all   languages, even in Dutch, you know.  

[00:22:22] Unknown:

Wow. Great.  

[00:22:23] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. But   anyway, I was   at the same time, you know, running around like   that was very difficult because I   was feeling the need for some reason, for   some maybe stupid reason, but you know,   to put down the roots   somewhere.   And for some reason I just couldn't, you know,   I was just traveling around with Friends and   all across the US and   here and there. And at one point,   at one point,   well, I had a lot of friends   of all types and quite a few   girlfriends. And one,   decided, wanted to   move to Europe. She wanted to know what Europe was like.   You know, we were at the time living on the   Cherokee reservation. We spent three months there with the   Cherokee Indians, had learned a lot of   things, which was great, which was great. But   at the end of the summer, ah, she wanted to   fly over to Europe,   France. And when we got   there, she felt really good there, you know, she   learned French. Three months for an American, I mean,   that's a feat. That's a feat. I never   met anybody else like that who could learn language   so fast, you know. So anyway,   and when we got there, well, you know, put the world   around, that I was giving   workshop. I wanted to   give workshops, seminars, you know,   weekends, week long things. And I just   got so many offers right from   the start. You know, people were   interested, people were turned on.  

And I'll also put   out the word that, I had a book to   publish because, you know, all my notes had,   put my notes all together and had come up with   a book that I wanted to publish in   English. But my publisher in Santa   Barbara, California, died,   unfortunately. So I dropped   the idea. But I had something   to publish either in English or in French.   And actually a publisher came up   and told me, oh, yes, I'd be interested   to publish your book. So when I saw that,   I said to myself, well,   maybe I'll go around and find a better   deal or something else. So I ran around   and I ended up with 10   contracts. Whoa, 10 books.  

Yeah.  

[00:25:15] Unknown:

So that was the start of all your books.  

[00:25:18] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. By the way, I've written and   published, 123.   Yeah, you said 50, but real.   It's grown. It's grown from there.  

[00:25:31] Unknown:

That's, whoa. That's   overwhelmingly much. I mean, yes, I've   published a few books and it's, it's a lot of work.   Right?  

[00:25:40] Unknown:

Yeah. But, you know, I mean, I don't   do, I don't do much besides working. I mean, I'm   enjoying it, you know. You know, I spent   all my time.  

[00:25:51] Unknown:

You wrote your books, of course. yeah,   totally.   yeah, there was one book that was   really fascinating me. The title was really   fascinating me. I haven't read it yet, but the   title, is La Nature nous   sauvra repince prehistorique au problem   daujourduit, which translates as Nature   Will Save Us Prehistoric Answers   to modern problems. Can you tell   us something more about that?  

[00:26:20] Unknown:

Yes. Well, see, the thing   is, okay,   my quest for plants was   also a quest for   understanding who I am and what   world I'm living in.   It was there right from the start. Even   when I was a teenager.   When I was 12 years old,   I realized that   I'm living. I think we're living in   a very hypocritical society   where people say things and don't do that.   There's a bug. When I was 12 years old, I   definitely realized there is a big flaw in   us, in our society. Something that's wrong.   M. And I tried to find out what   it was and took me years. Now I believe I've   understood   the thing pretty well. and I'm living   it very differently myself. You know,   I'll tell you about it if you want, but   So studying, I found   out that in order to understand myself,   I have to understand where I'm coming from   as a human being. And as a human being   I have two parts. If I want   to put it very simply like that. We can get   into deeper,   into it if you want. Because we have to in order to understand.  

Because I'm sort of splitting things.   but anyway, you know, I'm part natural,   I'm part cultural. Actually. I'm both, I'm both at the same   time. And it's something that's very important to   understand. But I have to   understand the natural part   of myself, which I did   by living out alone in the   wood. I definitely got in touch with that.   You know, I had to sort of,   put myself away from society in order   to find my   own being, my own   being in relationship with what   surrounded me, you know, plants,   animals, weather, rocks,   you know, in a more   natural setting that   than society, which is   The other part of me. I mean I'm part of society as   well. And it's taken me a long time,   being able to accept it, but I   realized at one point that there's no   way I can live by   myself in the wood all the time. I mean, I just don't want   it. You know, that's what teaching is   great because I can take people with me.  

You know, I'm Basically I've been teaching two   different types of subjects.   I would say one is wild edible plants. I called it   wild cooking, you know, or wild   gastronomy, gastronomy, sauvage.   And the other one is soft survival, you know,   in the wild gastronomy, you know,   we go out we meet plants   because plants are   beings and meet very easily. We'll talk   about it again if you want, but. And then   gather plants and we cook together. You know, it's   festive, it's kind of convivial.   and we are learning, we are   definitely learning, learning from the plants   and learning about the plants. Okay. And the   other one, self survival is, you know, we take off for   a week bringing   the strict minimal.  

With us and we just spend   a week   meeting not only plants but landscape, different   landscapes. You know, I am getting in touch with the   weather, you know, which can be   very intense sometimes, you know,   and just   doing that. What I want to share is that it's   possible to feel good living   in and with nature. If you understand   her M. if   you know a little bit of techniques and   things like that and if you can   let yourself be basically, rather than   trying to do all the   time.  

[00:30:58] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:30:58] Unknown:

You know, although we do have, we do have to do as well,   you know, when it starts raining, you'd better build up a   shelter quick and that kind of stuff, you know. So   but anyway it's more, it's more in depth   experience. So   and   with years I   started   learning about our   history, about   ethnology, anthropology, you know,   I started running around,   flying around, you know, whatever, around   the world. You know, I've been many, many, many,   many, many countries and met people   who have different cultures,   you know, different ways of relating to the   world around them.  

I found out that they're different, but they're just the   same. There's definitely something   global about humanity,   but there are differences.   and this has brought me to   understand better our Western culture.  

[00:32:23] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:32:23] Unknown:

And our Western culture is   definitely like most other cultures in   the world, but it's definitely based on   agriculture.  

[00:32:34] Unknown:

Yes, yes.  

[00:32:35] Unknown:

And the big change, the very   big change has been   agriculture. The beginning of agriculture   12,000 years ago. But   from there, different   things have happened differently in different cultures.   And in our culture we   have developed a technology which is   extremely powerful. We have developed   a way of relating   to the world science, which gives us a lot   of power, which gives us a lot of   opening as well. An   openness that you don't find in other cultures as well.   so we have power, we have   possibilities, and we have to be very   careful about what we, what we do, you   know, and a lot of people, I mean, you know,   global warming, you know, destruction   of the environment, all these kind of things. Even though we weren't   talking about global warming at the time. But I mean, you know, the   destruction, that the   technology, the power of man,   is,   How can I say it is,   I don't find the word, but anyway,   is, putting on nature   with something that I feel. Something that I've been   feeling since I was a kid, you know, really.  

You know, when I was in. Living in the woods in America,   you know, I was feeling good,   really good. But whenever I would get out of the   wood and find myself in an environment   that had been,   modified, I would say,   by western   civilization, you.  

[00:34:31] Unknown:

Know, I think this sounds really familiar.  

[00:34:34] Unknown:

For a lot of people it was painful.   M. But actually painful. Something that I felt in my   body really, you know, not only in my   mind and in my body as well.   So,   what a lot of people have sort of   expressing now, you know, like, sort of   distress,   relative to the destruction of   the environment is something that I've   been living for   60 years, maybe something like that, you know, since I   started, actually feeling it.  

[00:35:14] Unknown:

It's like some kind of grief for the world.   Really. Yes.  

[00:35:18] Unknown:

No, no, no.  

[00:35:21] Unknown:

For me it is grief for the world.  

[00:35:23] Unknown:

Okay? Not for me. I don't care about the world. I mean,   I'm part of the world. It's grief for me.   It's grief for me because I'm,   It makes me. It makes me unhappy, you know, it   makes me,  

[00:35:36] Unknown:

Yes, it makes me feel unhappy for.  

[00:35:39] Unknown:

I don't feel different from the world myself.  

[00:35:41] Unknown:

No, no, no, that's not what I mean. What I mean is,   Because I feel that I'm part of the world.   it's like you say, you can physically feel the pain of   what is happening to the world. So   this is some kind of grieving process, I think.  

[00:36:01] Unknown:

All right, yeah, if you want to put it this way. If you want to   put it this way. All right. But I personally   don't feel the difference anyway. You know, I've always taken it   very personally, you know, whenever.   Okay. Here I live in Switzerland.   Switzerland is a cute country. Switzerland   is definitely not a natural country. You   know, France is more natural because there are   places in France where,   people, don't have   a little less money, you know, and   agriculture puts a little less pressure in   places. In Switzerland you   have to look really hard to find a spot   which is not cultivated. Because peasants, they   get money, you know, they get money for,   cultivating, you know. And the big problem   in our world is again,   agricultural cultivation.  



[00:36:54] Unknown:

Yes. So you have more wild species in   France than in Switzerland.  

[00:36:59] Unknown:

Pardon me?  

[00:37:00] Unknown:

So you have more spaces, really wild spaces   in France than in Switzerland.  

[00:37:06] Unknown:

There are very, very few   wild spaces in all of   Europe.  

[00:37:12] Unknown:

Yes, that's true.  

[00:37:13] Unknown:

All of Europe has been at one   point,   used, modified by man.   There's hardly any spot in Europe   where I feel really   wilderness.   You know, in America there   are a few more places, you know,   because, it's only   500 years that Western people,   you know, white people, however you want to call it,   have started, overwhelming   things, you know, changing things around, you know.  

[00:37:49] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:37:49] Unknown:

Here in Europe, it's already   6, 6000, 8000 in   places years old, you know.  

[00:37:57] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:37:58] Unknown:

But I'll go back   to this later because,   what I want to say is, that   not all say right now actually, you know.  

[00:38:14] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:38:15] Unknown:

The thing is, I can   feel nature everywhere, you know,   even in cities.   You know, so there's actually no   difference. Even   when I go to different places in   the world, you know, I've had the same feeling, this   feeling of stress,   and pain. I see   the destruction of the natural   environments and I've seen it all over the   world. But at the same   time, when I'm in a city and I see   one plant which is growing   between two cobblestones, you know?   It's nature.  

[00:38:59] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:38:59] Unknown:

So something that I've learned   basically is that, okay,   we're destroying nature for sure,   but nature is there   anyway. You know, when I'm in Paris, I   can see, I can feel that I'm   just there in a, ah,   short,   moment between two forests. There   was a forest before, there will be a forest after,   you know. Okay. I'm just right now in   this moment and probably   I wish it's not probably. I   wish, I wish there would   be more.   I think it would be a lot nicer   to let nature   express itself, you know. I would   be very happy about it, but that's my job.   Yes, that's my job, you know, that's what   I'm doing now. And I'm   doing it more and more strongly, I believe, and I hope   more and more efficiently because I believe,   we m. Need to be fairly fast, probably, or   I need to be fast anyway, because, you know, I'm not going to live, I mean,   in 24, in 26 years, I'll be 100 years   old, you know, so I have to do my   thing. that's why I like writing   books and teaching and   reaching out, trying to make people   realize that,   it's very simple actually. And at   the same time it's very tricky, you know. Because I see a lot   of people who have very good ideas, you know,   but basically all these ideas are always,   revolve around gardening,   you know, about cultivating.  



[00:40:57] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:40:57] Unknown:

You know, and this   is. It starts being tricky, you know, because the   only way we can, I believe, understand   the world is with paradoxical   thought. I don't know if you know what I mean. But   paradoxical thought is when two   things are true at the same time,   you know. Okay, okay.   Like I'm part   of nature, but I'm different from nature at   the same time.   You know, it eases things a lot   because you don't have to desert about   whether man belongs to   nature. So Anthropocene is okay, we can do   anything because it's part of nature anyway, or we don't   belong to the world. So in this case we have   no, it's no problem if   we kill people, you know, because, you know, they're not   part of nature and we have to   make way for nature. Something like that, you   know. And you hear both of these currents   of thoughts and I   believe both of them are wrong. Like   I've had myself, I have   a lot more, or   I've had a lot more pleasure being   in very natural environments. But I   realized that I'm part of a culture.  

I appreciate my culture. I've learned, I've   grown to appreciate more   and be happy with it. And at the same   time, I   don't know, share with people what makes me   happy and what makes me feel   good in life. You know, what makes me   feel like I understand myself better and   like I understand the world   I'm living in better accept   it, because it has good sides. You know,   I'm m very happy to be talking   with you through the Internet   right now.  

[00:43:05] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:43:06] Unknown:

I'm happy to be fairly warm while   it's very, it's. It's actually snowing outside or   it's between rain and snow, you know.   So I'm grateful. One thing that   I'm that I've learned definitely is   to be grateful, you know, to accept.   Accept what is. Because it   is a, reality that   man, for some   good and bad reasons, because there is no good   or bad. You know, when you think with   paradoxical thought, you know that there is no   good or bad.   But you know that at the same time that you   have to do what you decide   is good and avoid as much as   possible what you decide is bad, you   know, and you know that sometimes you'll feel   bad and sometimes you'll feel good,   but it's Just part of being.  



[00:44:05] Unknown:

Yes. Actually I think I can see that   philosophy in one of your books that I   have. It's the one, the Nutritional   guide on cultivated and wild plants.   And what I really like about that book, what   it does is   and this is something I really, really love. What it does is   it just makes wild   plants and cultivated plants, they don't have different   chapters. They are like equals.   They are equals. So you have like an   evening primrose or you have a stinging nettle   and then you have an avocado or a carrot in there.   And it's just, it's just another   ingredient. And this is, I really   like that, that it's not like, oh, this is the cultivated.  

Sometimes I get this response from, from people or   from students. They say, oh, and these, these cultivated   vegetables, I'm sure you don't eat these. And then   I think I, I really love pumpkins and I love a   cauliflower. And I love, you know, it's, it's   not as if they are evil or  

[00:45:14] Unknown:

Yeah, I hear you very well.   It's nice. I hadn't thought of it this way,   but I definitely see your point.   But I'll jump right   into it with   my paradoxical way of thinking.   And yes, you're right, but   no, no, wild   plants are different from cultivated plants and   cultivated plants are different from wild plants.  

[00:45:41] Unknown:

Of course.  

[00:45:42] Unknown:

And our, ah, big problem. So it's important, I believe,   to see both at the same time.  

[00:45:47] Unknown:

Yes, yes.  

[00:45:48] Unknown:

You know, you know, because, something which   is very important for me is   to,   I don't know, have people   realize that most of them,   most of them, especially those who are not turned on to wild   plants, you know, most of them live in a world   which is just humanized, which is just   controlled by human. Everything is human.   You know,   people come to my workshops or   my seminars and say, oh, you know, I   love nature. I have a big garden   garden. Cultivated plants,   ah, are ah, not   natural. They have been transformed by man,   you know. And you decided to put   one here and sow it   and water it and pull   out the weeds and everything. You know,   you're controlling it. So it's not   at all the same thing. You know, nature is your garden.  

Yes, there is nature in your garden. Of course, it's the weeds.   It's the weeds. And if   you look at weeds as being nature   developing itself towards   a forest.   Basically, if you don't do anything in your garden,   just wait for 50 years and you'll be in the middle of   forest yes, and it's great. I mean, I   love to think this way. It's helped me a lot   accept. This is what I was trying to say earlier, you know,   it has helped me a lot accept this,   dismemberment of nature, you know,   this dislocation, this destruction, you   know, this, this chopping out, ah, of   primeval forest, you know, to put,   to plow the   earth and,   plan things, you know, which is exactly what's   been happening for   several millennia now, you know, and most people   don't realize it anymore because it's just   old. It's ingrained in their,   in anything they, they do or think,   you know.  



[00:48:06] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:48:07] Unknown:

But when I tell them, you know, oh, you love nature. All   right, great, great. I have a good trick for you   there, you know, look at your   weeds. No, weeds   are nature. Ah. Ah. Interesting,   Interesting. Ah. Ah. So tell me,   what can I eat? You know,   which weeds can I eat? You know? Okay.   Chickweed, you know, and dandelion and nettle   and plantain and sal thistle   and. Wow. Great, Great. Ah. Ah.   And, are there plants,   which I can use for this healing   or whatever? yeah. Yeah, yeah, sure.   Okay, good. Okay, but then, ah,   but, this plant   here, jimson weed, you know, well, that's   a toxic plant, you know, I'm not going   to leave it in my garden. And then I tell   them, well, you know, when you get to the point where   you can live in your own garden,   a plant, no matter what it is,   you know, even if it's toxic plant, you know, but just   because it's there, just because you allow it,   the right to live, you know,   then you're into this relationship with   the living, you know, that, many people write and   philosophize about, you know, it's a big   thing now nowadays, you know, lots of books about.  

Is very simple. It's very simple. It's just   to be able to get to the point where the weeds of   your garden are not. They   start to be usable plants,   you know, you're going to use them, but you're still   into dominating, you know, it's still   into,   anthropocentrization. I don't know. Have you said   how you say it in English?  

[00:50:00] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:50:00] Unknown:

It's true.  

[00:50:01] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:50:02] Unknown:

Anthropocentrism.  

[00:50:04] Unknown:

Yes.   You know, I was wondering also I thought. I thought it was very   interesting that you had the nutrition charts in that   book about, about the   cultivated plants as well as the wild plants. And   I was. It really got me thinking,   like, if   you use the framework of the book, which Is that,   you know, it's just another vegetable or just another   fruit. I was   wondering if we need to get like   nutritionists more involved into   foraging because it really baffles me how   few things they know about the potentials of like   the wild greens that are very nutritional.   yes, I was just wondering if. I   don't know why it is that nutritionists in   general really know nothing   about wild plants. To me it's like a   missing, meaning.  



[00:50:59] Unknown:

Well, I, I can explain it to you like I   did in the book you mentioned or other books.   it's basically   because our society is   ah, a, ah, hierarchical society,   you know, with strata   and at one point, well for   one thing,   when you start cultivating, you   have to fight against nature.   Because nature is always stronger than you.   Unless you just spend a lot of   time working, inventing   new technology or   conquering ah, new places,   new territories where you will   impose your law again and your   protection.  

[00:51:51] Unknown:

It's about control. Yes.  

[00:51:52] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. Because if you don't do that,   then you die. Because the   problem with agriculture is that you   can feed more people.   Than you would with just gathering   m on a definite spot. So   your population will grow faster   than the production. That's Malthusianism.   You know, Malthus had seen that and   said it and it's the truth, you know, and   the way we are able to make it work for us,   not to avoid, to avoid starving,   is by having conquered pretty much all the   land there is to conquer on the earth. Although   we could go a little farther and having   developed a technology which is   extremely efficient, extremely efficient   due to the use of fossil fuels. You know,   I, hm, mean one person   who cultivates can,   has, I mean, can develop as   much energy as 500 or 1,000,   people, you know, working   with a whole.  



[00:53:04] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah.  

[00:53:06] Unknown:

So sure we can feed a lot of   people, but we have to produce, we have to mass produce.   You know, even organic   agriculture would probably not be able to   feed 8 billion people right away like that   unless people change their way   of relating to the world.   But the thing is   that we have to   understand ourselves   as human beings. And one thing which   is very important for us   is social status.   We have, part of   the brain which is called the striatus,   which is the How do you say le   circuit de recompense. How you say that in English?   You understand recompense.  

How you say   gives you pleasure, it   releases dopamine and things like that. You know,   when you eat a lot, you know, when you make love,   you know, when you, When you dominate   people, when you,   Different, very basic   feelings, you know, it's part of our primary brain.   And one thing is dominate. You know, we love to   dominate. You know, we. We love to dominate and be   admired, you know, and inventing   agriculture was a great way   to, create   surpluses, create richness,   and to create different   social strata. You know, the one who   owns the ones who work for   the owner and saves,   you know. And   I, make it short. I make it short. Of course,   you know, it's in my one book   that. I don't know if you read it, but Circular,   Planted. I don't know if   you read this one.  



[00:55:12] Unknown:

No, I haven't.  

[00:55:13] Unknown:

Do it. Do it. Do it.  

[00:55:14] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:55:15] Unknown:

Do it. I think you will enjoy it. I think you'll enjoy it, you   know, and we'll talk again afterwards.  

[00:55:21] Unknown:

Okay, that's good.  

[00:55:23] Unknown:

But anyway, just to make a very long. I,   mean, it's not that long. It's 12,000 years,   you know, as opposed to, all the time   we have spent on Earth. but anyway,   even more closely, that was in the Middle Ages   that, the dominant class,   nobles, m. and clergy,   they decided to separate   themselves,   in an obvious fashion that means,   living in different type of houses, wearing   different types of clothes, showing that it didn't work, you   know, speaking a different   language. The language of the court, as opposed   to the patois, the dialects of the   peasants, you know. And also,   as far as food goes, eating more   meat products, you know,   and as far as vegetable products   go, only cultivated   plants and leaving everything that was wild   to the peasant, you know. In other words,   like in the   16th century, you know, eating   beans, you know, green beans brought from   America was a symbol of   status, showing that you were a good person   because you had the means to,   have a gardener who would grow this for you. Because, you   know, there's no way you   could get it, otherwise.  



[00:56:59] Unknown:

Yes, it was also the time of,   exotic trees in gardens, like in   the gardens of castles. You see them a lot, these   exotic trees. And it was just like a status symbol   because, yeah, everything,   everything, everything.  

[00:57:15] Unknown:

Was a status symbol, you know. But if you   had nettle soup, it just   showed to everybody's eyes that you were just a   poor peasant not able to do   anything in that. Accept nature's gifts, you know.  

[00:57:32] Unknown:

I think that is exactly why it could be   interesting for a nutritionist to know more about wild   plants, because they work a lot with people who have   to work with a low budget.  

[00:57:44] Unknown:

It doesn't Work. I'll tell you. We have done it. We've done it.   It doesn't work. It doesn't work.   I have one of my students who's worked in Paris   with migrants.  

[00:57:54] Unknown:

Uh-huh.  

[00:57:54] Unknown:

You know, who were, as you say, on a low budget,   showing them. And especially, I mean, you know,   they could have   known about gathering   plants, you know, because, it was   probably a tradition in their countries, you know,   but they just didn't want to do it because they came to France   and they came to the west, and what they   wanted was to have money to fill up   their caddies in the supermarket.  

[00:58:26] Unknown:

All right, that's interesting as much. Well,   I know one of my students.  

[00:58:30] Unknown:

Processed food as they could.  

[00:58:33] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, one of my students actually works with   refugees as a doctor, and she. She   encourages, the. You   know, she says I just show them, like,   the most common plants, like stinging nettle,   dandelion, plantain. And   she says, actually they do it because they come   back to me afterwards saying, hey, I found a   field with lots of stinging nettle. And,   so I think some people may be more open to   this than other people. And it's interesting because   I realize in Belgium, a lot of people   stopped foraging after the Second World War because   it was kind of for that reason, the hunger   food that they had to eat during the   war, and they wanted to leave it behind,   which is totally understandable.  



[00:59:23] Unknown:

Yes, that's the same story, you know.   Status symbol.  

[00:59:28] Unknown:

Yeah, exactly.  

[00:59:29] Unknown:

Status symbol.  

[00:59:30] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah.  

[00:59:32] Unknown:

So, that's why, you know, I mean,   I've been talking with nutritionists, you know, in my.   My upcoming book in April, will be about   this, you know, very scientifically,   discussed.  

[00:59:47] Unknown:

Oh, I'm really looking forward to that.  

[00:59:49] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. I think you'll enjoy it, too. I'm sure you will.   There's a lot of information in it. A lot of information.   but still, it's   difficult. It's difficult to turn on,   nutritionists, for instance,   you know, because, they have very good   reasons, which are very bad   reasons. In other words, their good reasons, what   they think are good reasons, are actually not   rational reasons. They're actually   emotional reasons. They're cultural reasons. They're   cultural blockages, you know, and.   Well, that's what we're working on,   not our job, you know. Yes. It's far from.  

We are far from being there. Huh?  

[01:00:31] Unknown:

Huh? Yeah. Yeah. We have a lot of work to do.   It's true. Yes.  

[01:00:36] Unknown:

But, But we're. We're doing it.   I'm sure. I'm sure.  

[01:00:42] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:00:42] Unknown:

You know.  

[01:00:43] Unknown:

Yeah. but what I can see also in   Belgium is like we have these. Well, it's, it's.   Sometimes they even call themselves, eco   refugees. And these are people,   especially from the north of Belgium, from Flanders,   where, people are so fed up with the   fact that there are hardly any   forests here or any open   natural spaces that they,   they just move abroad. And very often it's to   France.  

[01:01:14] Unknown:

I can relate to that. I can relate to that. You know,   in two days I'll be going up to my place   in southern France.   I've got 60 hectares there,   five houses in the middle of   400 square kilometers of.   It's not wilderness. It's not wilderness because   people have been living there for   3,000 years, you know, and in   summertime they have sheep grazing here and there.   So it's not wilderness. You can feel the imprint   of man all over the place. Definitely.   But it's a lot more subdued,   you know, so I'd be   walking around, meeting nobody   for days.  

It's luxury.  

[01:02:07] Unknown:

M. Yes. And I can   imagine that it also makes like, the foraging a   lot easier because,   well, what we see now in the cities, at least in Belgium,   it's still a very niche thing, but it's   starting that some cities are really   investing in public spaces where people can   go foraging.   Do you have that in France?  

[01:02:30] Unknown:

What do you mean?  

[01:02:31] Unknown:

Like in Paris, would there be options   to go foraging?  

[01:02:35] Unknown:

Oh, of course. I do it. Yeah.  

[01:02:37] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:02:38] Unknown:

I, do it in the Bois de Vincennes, in the Bois Boulogne. I do it in the   forest Saint Germain. I do it all around.  

[01:02:43] Unknown:

This is the thing in Flanders, in the northern   part of Belgium, you cannot   forage anything in forests. Even   if you take a leaf that has fallen on the   forest soil, if you take it home, you are breaking   the law.  

[01:02:59] Unknown:

Why is that? Why?  

[01:03:02] Unknown:

Because. Well, actually the reason is that we have the   lowest forest density of the whole of Europe.   There are just so few forests   that they want to protect them, which   I totally understand. But it's   a total different situation, I think, than the   situation in France, where you can   go to forests and forage.  

[01:03:28] Unknown:

Well, it's tolerated.   France is a country of tolerance.   It's forbidden.  

[01:03:35] Unknown:

Oh, it is forbidden.  

[01:03:36] Unknown:

Oh. You can't do anything in France   without having the authorization   of whoever, you know, the state or   the owner of the land or whatever. You know, you're not.   It's not like in Norway. In Norway   or Sweden or Finland, you can go   anywhere and you can forage. You can plant your tent   or sleep, m. Anywhere, you know, even   on private land, you know.  

[01:04:02] Unknown:

Yes, I know. Yeah.  

[01:04:03] Unknown:

You know, or mansfet, it's called.  

[01:04:06] Unknown:

Yes.  

[01:04:06] Unknown:

You know, in France   it's the opposite, you know, you're not   allowed to do anything because every   piece of land belongs to somebody, you know.  

[01:04:17] Unknown:

Uh-huh.  

[01:04:18] Unknown:

But in fact, you can do   anything you want pretty much, you know, unless somebody comes   and, gives you a fine   because they find you there and they want to, to be a pain   in the ass, you know.  

[01:04:33] Unknown:

Well, this actually brings me to another question of, of   mine because I, I read a very   interesting article about how   pharmacists in France continue   to block the legal recognition of   herbalists. And it's a ban that has   been going on for more than 80 years, apparently.  

[01:04:53] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:04:53] Unknown:

What I thought was really interesting about this is that I know that   before that French pharmacists   were actually hiring   herbalists to work in the   pharmacy. Because I know this for sure because, they   were even in the north of France. They were recruiting   herbalists from Belgium. And the article   says. I will, I will quote now.   State recognized herbalist diplomas were ended   by the government in 1941 and not   restored after the war.  

[01:05:24] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:05:24] Unknown:

It's not clear why the ban was imposed.   Most people suspect that pharmacists struggling   to get medical supplies because of wartime restrictions,   wanted to eliminate competition from herbalists.   However, the ban has never been lifted.  

[01:05:40] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true.   But it's not herbalist, you know, that's a different word. It's herborist.   Yes, herbalist is different,   but it's different. Herbois   was, a legal status.   it was a job, you know, there was a diploma.   But yes, to say the pharmacist made it   banned in 1941. And, they maintain it   banned. And that's it, you know.  

[01:06:12] Unknown:

Yes, it's actually very similar   to the situation in Belgium, I think,   for the East. Yes. because   I have been teaching for 15 years on the   main herbalist school or one of the main herbalist   school in Belgium.   And it really   pains me to see   a lot of talent and a lot of skills just   going to waste. Well, not all going to   waste. Some people are very creative working around the law.   But. And I say this with a lot of respect   for soap makers, but Herbalista is   not just soap makers. You know,   there is a lot of knowledge and skills when it comes to   medicinal plants. And   it's just such a pity that it's. It   got banned at one point in history   and it never got   reclaimed anymore.  



[01:07:10] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, what can I say about it? You know,   it's, that's the way   it is.  

[01:07:16] Unknown:

I mean, what is your opinion on that? Should,   should we be more reclaiming about that   or, or just accept the   situation as it is or.  

[01:07:26] Unknown:

I'm, personally. Okay,   personally, I   don't feel the need for it   personally, because,   What I really want to   teach people is go out   and pick plants themselves,   you know, I mean,   going to a herborist,   a plant seller, somebody who sells specifically   with plants, you know, or go to a pharmacist where you can find   plants also.   let's. I mean,   sometimes I use plants, you know, for   healing, but,   if I need them, I just go and get them myself   and make my own pharmacy, you know,   and. Because I believe, I believe.   I believe in two things. One is prevention.   Okay? Prevention, okay.  

So that's, that's what I want to stress. And   prevention has a lot to do with alimentation,   you know, what you eat, you know,   so I, believe wild plants   should, if I can use the word should,   be part of anybody's diet.   Anybody who wants to be healthy's diet.   Yes, you know what I mean? I think it's part   of it. I mean, I think you can't really avoid it, you know,   and it's healing in itself just because   you're relating to plants, you're   relating to   nature, you're going, you're   going out, you're exercising yourself, you're,   I mean, you have a different   way of living than just consuming.  



[01:09:20] Unknown:

Yes, I totally agree with that.  

[01:09:22] Unknown:

And you know, selling and buying   plants in a pharmacy or in   herbalistory is   consuming.   It's an interesting type of   consuming. More so than probably   than, I don't know,   buying whatever. I mean, anything can   be useful and everything can be dreadful,   really, you know,   sometimes. I mean, plant medicine   has its useful sides for sure,   but it has its limits as well.  

[01:10:01] Unknown:

Yes, of course.  

[01:10:02] Unknown:

You know, my wife got cancer, you know,   and she's been doing chemotherapy.   It worked. It almost destroyed her,   but it destroyed the tumor   cells more than they destroyed her   so far. But   plants have a role to play along   with that.  

[01:10:24] Unknown:

But yes, absolutely.  

[01:10:25] Unknown:

If she hadn't had these molecules,   she probably would be dead now, you know?   So,   you know, so I'm not going to fight myself   to bring back this diploma of herbalistory   in France, because what will happen is that   in France there are 148 plants which   are free for sale,   you know, and if they bring back   this herbalistry herborist, diploma.   What they will do is bring is take these   148 plants from the public and   give them to the arborist.   Because the pharmacist, the lobby is much too strong   to allow anything else.  

[01:11:09] Unknown:

And wait, what exactly do you mean by free   plants?  

[01:11:13] Unknown:

148 plants which can   be,   commercialized freely. Ah.  

[01:11:20] Unknown:

okay.  

[01:11:21] Unknown:

You can buy them outside of   pharmacy.  

[01:11:26] Unknown:

Okay. Yes.   All right. Okay.  

[01:11:28] Unknown:

You know, like mint and   linden, teal, you know,   whatever. You know, few things like this   140, 48. It's not much. In   Italy they have 300, for   instance, but we used to have   36, I believe. Or was it 26 until   2008? And in 2008,   they've been brought up the number of free plant. They freed   148 plants. But what they would do   if they. If they, bring   back this diploma. Diploma de   arborist would be to take these   148 plants from the free   status and give them to the herbalist. Because   it's a crazy.  

[01:12:16] Unknown:

Have like a free plant and a, non free   plant.  

[01:12:19] Unknown:

Pardon me?  

[01:12:21] Unknown:

It's a crazy concept to have, like,   free plants. I mean, all plants are   free, right?  

[01:12:28] Unknown:

No, no, you cannot. No, I mean,   Belgium is the same.  

[01:12:32] Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, of course, I know. And we have one of the   strictest, legal claims because some of these.  

[01:12:37] Unknown:

Plants actually are dangerous. I mean,   regulations, of course. Regulations are   a good thing.   Yes, except that. Of course, you   know.  

[01:12:50] Unknown:

Yes. The thing in Belgium that is a little bit   crazy is that we have,   things like,   how do you call it? Like ground ivy. The,   Yeah, it's forbidden in Belgium. And   I know that in the neighboring countries it's not.  

[01:13:13] Unknown:

No, it's not. Why is it forbidden?  

[01:13:15] Unknown:

You know, yes, it's a substance called   puligon that makes the   liver toxic. But you need a huge amount of   it.  

[01:13:24] Unknown:

Oh, yeah, okay. Like in Montpelier.  

[01:13:27] Unknown:

Yes, yes, exactly. But, you   know, the plant is so aromatic and so   bitter. You will not eat   all of it. You know, you eat it as a   herb, not as a vegetable.  

[01:13:40] Unknown:

Oh, I use it a lot and   I can eat a lot of it.  

[01:13:46] Unknown:

Yes. And you're still alive. And I think it's so crazy.  

[01:13:49] Unknown:

Of course, of course, of course.  

[01:13:50] Unknown:

This one plant, I mean, Belgium is so small. It's   ridiculously small. And all the neighboring countries,   as far as I know, allow this plant. So it's just a   crazy concept of.  

[01:14:01] Unknown:

Yes, I agree, I agree.   Yes. You know, I think I'm gonna have to go.  

[01:14:08] Unknown:

Yes, yes.  

[01:14:09] Unknown:

You know, thank you.  

[01:14:10] Unknown:

So much for your time, Francois. I really appreciate.  

[01:14:14] Unknown:

It's a pleasure. But, let's do. Let's do it again   whenever you want, you know?  

[01:14:18] Unknown:

Yes.  

[01:14:19] Unknown:

I mean, I'm, free. I can do whatever I want. So   it'll be a pleasure again.  

[01:14:23] Unknown:

And I'm looking forward to your next book. Yes.  

[01:14:26] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We will   be in touch.  

[01:14:31] Unknown:

Okay, then I will just say enjoy your   meal and, we'll talk later. Okay?  

[01:14:36] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.  

[01:14:39] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:14:39] Unknown:

Thanks again for getting in touch. And,   we'll talk again.  

[01:14:44] Unknown:

Okay, that's good. Bye.  

[01:14:47] Unknown:

Hey, how do you say your name?   Lever. Okay. Lever. All right,   great. So, bye. Leave and talk soon.  

[01:14:57] Unknown:

Nice talking to you. Thank you.  

[01:14:58] Unknown:

Definitely.  

[01:15:00] Unknown:

So, Wildy, that was it for now. I hope   you enjoyed this episode.   Some new episodes are coming up, so I hope you'll be   listening. And, in the meantime, stay   wild and keep powdering your nose with   dandelion pollen. Bye.   A warm thank you for listening,   Wildy. Are you feeling a   wild itch after this episode? Well, just   head over to wildplantforager.com and   feel free to connect with me on social media.   I'm looking forward to the next episode. I,   hope you'll be there, but for now,   just go outside and follow   your wild heart.