Isabel Openshaw is a forager, a researcher at Kew Gardens in London, and a medicinal plant walk guide. She always loved spending time outside, and was inspired by her grandmother, her mother, and the abundance of elder plants around her, to become a forager herself. Her experience with elderberries and elderflower unlocked the world of medicinal plants, and got her thinking about what else there was out there.
And here we are now, having a very inspirational conversation.
About her favorite places to go foraging.
About honouring what you bring home by preserving it well.
About meditating on raisins and connecting with the lifecycle of where our food comes from, and feeling the connection to our ancestors.
About how the UK can seem like a herbal paradise compared to the situation in Belgium.
About the average botanical knowledge in the UK and the difference between the countryside and cities.
About the concept of "the commons".
About the impact of industrial agriculture on our planet and rewilding projects to turn farmland back intro wild nature.
About the work Isabel is doing in Kew Gardens and the role of botanical gardens in the 21st century.
And lots more.
You can find more information about Isabel on the Kew Gardens website:
https://www.kew.org/science/our-science/peope/isabel-openshaw
Or follow her on Instagram @iza.herbalremedies.
🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.
If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚
🎼 music by Eva LaRuna
Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.
[00:00:00]
Unknown:
Hi, Wildling. Hey. I'm still looking for some more interesting guests on, European herbalism and foraging. So if you know anybody that would want to be a guest in my podcast series, please feel free to reach out and contact me through social media Wildplant Forager, or through my website, wildplantforager.com. thank you so much. Much. Welcome to Wild the podcast for Wildlings. Just like you wildlings who want to transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in belgium since. Since 2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes.
Working with plants has become more popular. But I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal. I believe that together we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants.
And that's why, for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you are ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild. Welcome Wilde. Today I'm here with Isabel Openshaw. Is that right? Am I saying that right? Okay, so you are a forager. You work at Kew Gardens. You're also guiding people on, medicinal plant walks. Please tell us a little bit about how your journey with the plants got started. Was it something you learned from your parents or grandparents, or was it more a thing that you initiated yourself?
[00:02:42] Unknown:
yeah, so I think I've always had, I've always loved spending time outside, and I was lucky in my childhood to spend quite a lot of time outside. but the foraging that I did as a child was kind of just the standard foraging that most people do, which is going to the BlackBerry bushes, or on the dead nettles, taking the little flowers and, sucking the nectar out of them. but my grandmother, she was very into gardening, which definitely inspired me to get into gardening. and my mother also, was into, foraging along for elder and, making cordial. and it wasn't until one, time when she accidentally fermented it that I was like, I'm gonna on purpose ferment this. and then really, really got it connected to the elder.
It really kind of unlocked all of these possibilities, that elders got such a treasure trove, for medicinal properties, not only for the, flowers, which are great for cold and flu, and, a diaphoretic and a diuretic. So, yeah, stimulating sweat and urine, respectively, to flush out toxins, but then also in the autumn time when the berries come and they're perfect for the flu season. and so, yeah, I think it was a combination of, inspiration, from my grandmother and my mother, but also it was really elder that, unlocked the, world of medicinal plants for me.
and then, yeah, I got into thinking about what else was out there. and then, yeah, alongside that, I was also trying to steer my studies more towards, plants as well. because I always did geography and then maths for my undergrad and then applied that to the range Forest of North Borneo for a research project. then I did a master's in ecology and had a research project on ectomycorrhizal fungi at Kew. and now, yeah, I'm still at Kew, researching forests, for the time being.
[00:05:14] Unknown:
Lovely and really interesting. It's an interesting story about the accidental fermentation. What, was there an explosion?
[00:05:24] Unknown:
there definitely were a couple of mini explosions along the way. It sounds like a gunshot going off in the house when the cork pops. And for people not unfamiliar with this sound, they're like, what is that? going off in the house? And I'm like, don't worry, it's just the elderflowers.
[00:05:42] Unknown:
M. So as a forager, how frequently do you go out foraging? And what are your favorite places to go foraging?
[00:05:52] Unknown:
Yeah. So Kew Gardens is based in London, where I'm living at the moment. But I don't really like to forage in London. Because you only like to forage where there's an abundance, for wildlife as well as us as well. and say, like, nettles are one of my favorite things to forage as well. And they, accumulate heavy metals, which is also not good to do in a heavily polluted area. so it's mainly just on the weekends. And it's not like, I try and go every other weekend, and I'll just go to the outskirts of London, really, just on the train, because we really don't need that much to sustain ourselves for the year.
And, So. Yeah.
[00:06:43] Unknown:
Right. I really love your answer because a lot of people, like my students, they have really high standards and they really think they're only a real foraging if they go out foraging every single day. And it doesn't need to be like that. You can just go with the flow and do what works for you and your individual situation, I think, and the surroundings where you are. And yeah, I think it's really important that it fits for every person. You know, how you forage and when you forage and how frequently and how often you forage.
[00:07:19] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, I think it's definitely quite a time consuming commitment to do. And definitely I want to honour the plants and fungi that I bring home and by preserving them well or at least having the time to process them as soon as I get back. But yeah, I definitely do like preservation because many of the plants and fungi is only available at one time of year. So it's pretty ah, essential to be able to preserve them, to have them year round.
[00:07:55] Unknown:
Yes. And it's right that you have to calculate the preserving time also in your foraging time. I think it's better to pick like once a week and then be able to preserve it than to pick every day and then just leaving it somewhere to wilt or to go bad. It's just a shame of all the plants or the fungi you picked really.
[00:08:21] Unknown:
Definitely. But I think, yeah, when I got into foraging and if I've taken the time to go out there, connect with nature, I'm so much more grateful for the gifts that I've been given and I definitely want, want to savor what I have and what I've got. because, Yeah, sometimes, I don't know if you've also heard of like this meditation, the raisin meditation. when I first got into meditation, this was an example. And you take first raisin and you experience it through your different senses. and then you take the second raisin and you, you imagine everything that it took to get this raisin to where you are today. From the water, that touched the seed and helped it grow and all the people that took it to get there.
And once you think about all of the energy that went into that, you're so much more grateful for the food. And Yeah, I think definitely, you know, connecting with the life cycle of where our food comes from always, makes us more appreciative.
[00:09:35] Unknown:
Yes, totally, totally. I still see everything I pick as a treasure. Even after 20 years of foraging, it's still like a treasure for me and I will never take it for granted. And I see a lot of people that do take it for granted. And it kind of bothers me because really, you have to see the whole picture. You know, everything that is involved evolved, from the seed to whatever it is that you are picking, or from the spore to the mushroom you're picking. And yes, it's kind of the miracle of life that you're just involved in and that you are. yes, it's like a privilege to be able to pick it and to use it and to get nourished by it on different levels.
[00:10:23] Unknown:
Yeah. And I also feel like it relates to a connection with our ancestors, not only from maybe inspiration into getting into foraging, but also it reminds us what life used to be like as a hunter, gatherer and how much more connected we were with the plants. and that definitely creates a sense of awe as well.
[00:10:51] Unknown:
Yes, Yes, I agree. So one of the questions I wanted to ask you because for me, as a Belgian herbalist and forager, the UK sometimes seems like a herbal paradise.
[00:11:06] Unknown:
Oh, really? Yes.
[00:11:07] Unknown:
Ah, there are so many foragers from the uk. There is a high standard of education at herbalism schools. There is even licensed medical herbalism. That's just like a dream. for the Belgian situation, it's so drastically different. Here in Belgium, there is not even a thing as a licensed herbalist. It's not a thing. And so what I'm wondering is what effect this has on the general public, as in how accessible is herbal medicine? Is it frowned upon? Is it a niche thing, or is it an accepted and respected choice?
[00:11:47] Unknown:
I think it's definitely gaining popularity. And ever since lockdown, there was a really big, upheaval in foraging, which kind of leads to herbalism as well. but I still do think it is quite a niche thing, but it is gaining popularity. definitely. I think it's very interesting and great to hear that there's so many courses out there, because, quite a lot of the time, at least with the master's courses, I hear that there's quite a lot of them that are being pulled from the universities due to lack, of popularity or. I don't know, I'm very skeptical that the pharmaceutical companies are, in there somewhere. Somewhere, because I know that, there's quite a lot of censorship. Ah, that's at least coming from online at the moment, which is kind of scary. but definitely, I think, but yeah, I did a little bit of traveling earlier, this year, very early on in the year, last month, and it did make me very much appreciative of the amount of research actually that we have to our ah, herbs that we use. so contrasting this to tropical herbs, I think there is so much more research into them and that is due to the popularity from the people ah, driving this research. so yeah, that is really great to see.
and yeah, I think while I think it is normal, or is getting more normal, the norm for healthcare is still the nhs, which is great. But in the NHS they don't consider this holistic health approach enough. And I definitely wish there was more just consideration for herbalism and that that is an option. Whereas. But I think our ah, whole healthcare system has kind of taught us that the doctors are there to tell us what's wrong with us and then they'll provide something to heal ourselves. But with herbalism it's much more of we know our bodies best, everyone's different and it. We need to take our health into our own hands, to be able to heal ourselves. so that, so it's quite, yeah, a contrasting framework definitely.
[00:14:37] Unknown:
but yeah, yeah, yeah and it's, it's interesting what you're saying because yes, I think there is a lot of room for progress when it comes to complementary medicine. So where you have an, an integration of the herbal medicine in the, in the regular medicine or just that you use it to Yeah. For instance there are countries where you can have a chemotherapy therapy for your cancer but then you can go to the herbalist to make you less less troubled with nausea, with lack of energy. And I think that's also a beautiful model to, to have in Yes. And I also hear what you're saying about the power of the pharmaceutical companies which are, well they're very powerful here in Belgium.
because I heard you saying the herbalist courses at the universities. Did you really say that? So you can take herbal classes at universities?
[00:15:45] Unknown:
Yes, certain, universities, you can. It's within their masters. there's one called herbology. I know, there's also ethnobotanical, studies as well. but I think they are reducing in their numbers.
[00:16:06] Unknown:
So I know that there was a way that you could study at the University of Antwerp actually you could follow classes for natural, ah, medicine. But this was like. Yes, I think it's since ages. It has been just deleted from their offerings. So Yes, I think there's a lot of work that still needs to be done there. I think we can Agree, on that one?
[00:16:43] Unknown:
yeah, no, and definitely. Yeah. I think also coming back to when people choose to go down the herbalism route within the uk, I do often feel like it's a last resort for many people and that's why they turn to herbalism. It's often for long term diseases that they're struggling to find help with and, and then turn to herbalism and realize that it's helped for the long term.
[00:17:13] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And actually it should be the first resort, I think. so often people come to me and they ask, yes, I'm at my wits end. I have tried the cortisones and I have tried the antibiotics and I've tried. And then they're naming all kinds of therapies that actually are harming the body or you know, like antibiotics, they, they really destroy the intestinal flora. So I think what would have happened if you just used the herbs first and then maybe if they don't work good enough you could have tried some other options. But yes, I would like to see that happening. That people have this general knowledge so that they can just use herbs as a first, as a first eighth thing, as a, as a first remedy, as a first option and then transition to other options if it's needed.
[00:18:18] Unknown:
But yeah, definitely. And you know, they definitely do have this in other cultures where it's the first point of call. And we have it to a certain extent, on small things, like having a sore throat and you know, a lemon and honey tea. That's quite a common thing. but, but yeah, definitely not for, for yeah, for eczema. It's been a little bit of a. Psoriasis has been a bit of an issue at the moment with the cold weather. We had a cold spell last week and, and and yeah, I think that hydrocortisol is, it's just the first point of call that the pharmacists will recommend. but there's.
Yeah, there's so many different oils that you can have and such as calendula oil, which is my favorite one, to use. And yeah, because it's antibacterial, antifungal and that's what our skin is craving when it's dry, the oils. People are also confused. They think that putting oils on their face is going to cause, to have spots, where. Yeah, it's not quite the case. Our skin needs oil. and then, and then with antibiotics. It's so silly because everyone knows we're in an antibiotics crisis, yet the doctors are so quick to. To, To. Yeah, to prescribe them. And then if. And then, yeah, if. If you. If you're prescribed them by the doctor, then, most people will take them. You have to really put your foot down, which is what I do. And I'm like, no, I don't need them, to be able to heal different things.
[00:20:06] Unknown:
Yes. Right. And how is the average botanical knowledge, of the people in the uk and do you see a difference geographically like that? It's more of a common skill in more remote areas, like in the countryside, and less so in the cities, or how is that?
[00:20:27] Unknown:
Yeah, I think definitely. And it definitely makes sense. If you're living out in the countryside, then, plants are more of way of life, than in the cities. People are definitely more disconnected. I'm not sure regionally, across the country, but definitely, in more remote places, then it will be common to go along the hedgerows and collect from the common things to hawthorne and rosehips, as well as sloes, I think. also taught sometimes to be, you know, quite wary of these plants, such as nettles. Like, everyone's got a story of how they fell in them as a child.
and the only thing that people know that we do with them really, is have nettle soup, which doesn't sound so appealing, although it's actually great. I love putting nettles in soup. I don't. I don't necessarily make it just a nettle soup. It'll be like just, I'm making a vegetable soup and then just throw some other nettles in there. so I think, yeah, people are definitely aware. but, you know, there's always. There could be room for improvement, of the uses or how. often the different plants.
[00:21:58] Unknown:
Yeah, and one of the things that really fascinates me as a forager is the concept of the commons, which is a word that is connected to the word community. So for the people who don't know this, the commons, it's a concept that goes back to the Middle Ages, historically. And these are places that belong to the community, where you could go foraging, grace your animals, pick mushrooms. What are your ideas on this? Is there like a place for the commons in the future?
[00:22:35] Unknown:
just. Just for places where you go and forage. See, I think that that would be beautiful and great, but at least here across the uk, there is just so much farming land and it feels like all of our countryside is mainly farmland and not enough green spaces and wild spaces, although there are a lot of rewilding projects going on. and then, and then there's also, yeah, some, some protected areas which you're obviously not, not allowed to forage on. and obviously, you know, yeah, everyone goes to the supermarkets, which I'm actually trying to quit supermarkets at the moment. I got, I get my veg box and I buy some of my dry foods from like, some Whole Foods shops online.
and I am feeling much better for it, I think.
[00:23:35] Unknown:
Exactly. And I think foraging is also a very subversive thing to do because you don't need the food supply system as it is today. You don't need. It's the system, the industrial system of agriculture that we have today that is actually damaging the planet more, I think.
[00:23:58] Unknown:
Definitely. And within that system, yeah, we have such a, problem of food waste as well from that system. but yeah, coming back to what we said at the start, foraging makes you so much more grateful for the gifts.
[00:24:21] Unknown:
Yes. And there's also this personal relationship with your food which is different than going to the supermarket and just buying some anonymous food because you don't know where it came from, who grew it, what the plant looked like before. Like, there were so many people who do not know what a cauliflower plant or a bean plant looks like and how these plants grow and what they need and. Yes. So foraging really gives us this personal relationship with our food and with nature. And I think that's. That's essential for the future actually to have this relationship with and to realize how much we are part of an ecosystem instead of being outside of it.
[00:25:06] Unknown:
Definitely. I think, yeah, we have been on this path of disconnection for too long. and it actually did start. I think it did start with the agricultural revolution that we. That we started taking these plants and seeing them all as commodities, and just wiping fields clear and only planting one crop in the fields. and we, by doing this kind of slowly taking ourselves out of the food chain. And I knew that we were on this path of disconnection, but I didn't realize how deep rooted in our language it was until I was reading Braiding Sweetgrass.
And to the, Patawamuni tribe, they refer to all living things as beings, whereas in English, anything that isn't a human, maybe a pear is an it. And that really struck, Struck a chord with me because, our language is so important, which shapes our way of thinking. thinking that, yeah, we're outside of the food chain and we're not nature. whereas definitely foraging brings us back to that and makes us appreciate the seasons so much more. Which is what, which is what pagans and we probably did before we had Christianity come in and us and we were honoring the seasons which today is embolic. which marks the start of spring, which yeah, is a great way to look forward to the year ahead. I mean it's still pretty harsh winter at the moment or it's not too bad in London really.
[00:27:12] Unknown:
well here the snowdrops just popped up. they're starting to bloom. Not entirely yet, but they're starting.
[00:27:20] Unknown:
So yes, yeah, we've got some crocuses out as well. Snowdrops, which is exciting.
[00:27:29] Unknown:
I also want to talk with you about your work at Kew Gardens. can you tell us a little bit more about your job there, what exactly it is that you are doing?
[00:27:41] Unknown:
yeah, so I've always in my studies kind of been researching forests, ecosystems, and at the moment I'm looking at how much carbon is stored in the trees across the UK and that's mainly focused on above ground in the trees, and trying to get our estimates better because they're relying quite a lot on forestry estimates which are not that accurate. but then also I work closely with our mycorrhizal department. and they're looking, they're looking at synergy with our above ground team, what's happening beneath the soil, as well as how much the soil respires as well. So I'm also going to be trying to look to see what correlations there are between the above ground carbon and the below, ground.
[00:28:37] Unknown:
That's some really interesting research. Yes.
[00:28:43] Unknown:
yeah, no, it's definitely good and I'm lucky that I get to do some field work as well. So I think that's really important, tangible links to what we're studying. because I do quite a lot of coding in my day to day. So yeah, have a go at touching the trees as well and
[00:29:04] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. So what I find really interesting about Kew Gardens is that they do a lot more than just being the Royal Botanical Gardens. there's a rather interesting article on their website that I found on using artificial intelligence in the digitization project of the 8 million. And that is just a mind blowing number. The 8 million herbarium species. in particular to find out if a species has been Misidentified. I found that so fascinating. And another new, citizen science project that are involved in is asking people of Britain and Ireland about ethno veterinary knowledge, the knowledge of how plants and fungi can treat illness in animals. And I love how it mentions this. They say this knowledge could be used to help develop novel biodegradable medicines for animal health and reduce the excess use of veteran pharmaceuticals, which is causing enormous damage to our soils and insect populations and slowly leading to the rise of anti parasitic and antibiotic resistance in serious diseases. That is so interesting. How do you see the role of botanical gardens in the 21st century?
[00:30:28] Unknown:
Yeah, definitely. I think that's so important, because, you know, one of the keys slogans, at the moment is our future is botanic. And that's something that I truly believe that we do need to look to. I mean, and I get this when I'm foraging as well, when I, spending time in nature, you learn so many different lessons because you can take so many different lessons, from nature and be able to apply them in our life, remembering that we are part of nature. and such as if I think I'm foraging from one place too much, maybe I'll get a bit prickled by the thorns and I'm m like, oh, that's enough from this place.
I'll have to move on now. but also, yeah, it can be used in so many different metaphors for our own lives. So I definitely think that, research into plants and fungi is so important. And And yeah, it's a shame that we're at Kew. We're always looking for more funding for all of our projects, because that's what we rely on. and I think, yeah, we just need more interest into plants and fungi to be able to fund all this crucial research, into our digitalization project, which is helping to get an online catalog because many of the specimens are just all, they're just dried copies.
and then, yeah, I don't know too much about, the veterinary research, but it sounds so interesting and yeah, definitely so important because we have so many cattle. And actually I heard something interesting, speaking to a farmer that they have medical, ah, fields. So not only to separate, sick animals and put them in the medical fields, but they'll grow, lots of different herbs in those fields and the animals will self medicate and choose which herbs are going to heal them. which I think is so cool. And it also makes me think that we probably used to be able to sense this so much better.
but obviously it's got quite far away from that.
[00:32:58] Unknown:
yes, it also makes me think about horses, the wild horses. It's such a robust animal and it really generally has a very strong health. But then you have the domesticated horses that are just, well, they, they need just around the right kind of food and they just need. Just. But it's because they're in a meadow all the time and they're contained and they cannot go a few. A few kilometers just to find, the specific medicinal plant that they may need. I think it has a lot to do with that. And yes, it's interesting to think about, how we instinctively could just find our medicinal herbs. And now it's more of a knowledge thing. You have to know how to identify the plants, how to extract round amount, of nutrients or of, chemical compounds that are in them. yes, I find it really interesting to think about it, how, how it used to be just our instincts and how far we have come from that.
[00:34:10] Unknown:
I m mean, I think def. I think definitely we do have a certain amount of that in us. I mean, I know that, I. You, like, I mean, I don't. I don't drink that much anymore, but in my, in my teenage years, I used to. I used to be. Get hungover and crave spinach. And it was probably because, you know, the iron content. And we do have certain cravings, that come through. And so I think, you know, it is something that we could potentially tap into if we, yeah, just check in with our bodies more. And
[00:34:44] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, I believe that too. I believe that too. But I was also wondering, like, Kew Gardens is quite different than the wild outdoors where you go foraging. It's more kept. It's more, you know, structural. How is it for you to live and work in these two different places?
[00:35:07] Unknown:
I definitely, Yeah, I definitely think it could be more. It could be more wild, because I like more wild areas. But I understand it's. It's a, you know, it's got quite, Yeah, lots of history relating to the royal family and they want royal Gardens. And our horticulture team do such a good job of keeping the gardens well kept. there is a little area of a woodland walk towards the back, which is slightly more wild. and then we've also got another site, Wakehurst, in East Sussex. And that's definitely. It's nicknamed like Kew's Country Garden. And it's definitely a Lot more wild open spaces, and forested areas, which is lovely to walk around. And you can bring dogs there now, to Wakecrest, which is pretty cool as well.
but, yeah, I think the level of upkeep is also so good. And it's so important for. Because going around the gardens, it's all about learning and identifying these different plants. And so, to be fair, if there's lots of weeds in there, then I'm gonna get confused about which sign is for which plant. so, yeah, I think it's such a great. A great place to walk around where the focus is on the plants.
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Nice. All right. So one of the things that happens here in Belgium, and I don't know how it is in the uk, if one works with herbs, people generally will tell this person, well, hey, you are pretty lucky to live in today's world, because in the past, you would have definitely be burned. and it bothers me because it gives a sense of privilege. Whereas in reality, I think there is a lot of reclaiming and activism work to be done in the area of herbalism. So I'm wondering, did someone ever say a similar thing to you?
[00:37:04] Unknown:
Definitely, yeah. I definitely do get that quite a lot. but, yeah, I think it's definitely important, to realize that that happened. And there's quite a good documentary, not documentary, a podcast on BBC Sounds called the Witch. And, that goes through the history of the witch trials. and it's really important because I think it was kind of. That whole scenario was a way of ostracizing just women, because I think women were specifically targeted and how that has impacted us today. And so our role was then we were kind of made to feel, a bit inferior or fear of treading out and stepping out, because. And it was traditionally, older women that were targeted as well, for being too independent. And, So I definitely think it's really important that we recognize that maybe why women today are slightly more reserved. And that may have been because we were persecuted for stepping out of line.
and it definitely also reigns true for, that we were persecuted, in our connection with plants.
[00:38:39] Unknown:
Yes. What I find interesting to see is how you also mentioned it, that in the uk, the world of herbalism, of plant knowledge, is growing. People are getting more interested in this. And I'm wondering how this will evolve, because right now, I have the impression that when it comes to things like herbal medicine, well, in Belgium, it's not really legal to practice herbal medicine. But I also feel that we should be Braver than we are today. We are just being nice and following the government rules. But. But we could also be a little bit more activistic about it and just trying to reclaim the right to practice our profession, really.
So. Yeah, and I think that has to do with what you're mentioning, that, you know, we're still being reserved and.
[00:39:37] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. But I think. I think that. And I think the way to bring that forward is, I mean, I used to think that, you know, many of our issues are on a global scale or national scale and we need to tackle them at those scales. But after this past year, I've definitely, I've connected with a lot of different communities who are doing really great stuff. And they're all from the. From grassroots and from just small communities. And I think that is definitely the way that we can, That we can bring about change. And it kind of makes sense in like these, like small ecosystems, if you will, of communities.
and you know, that starts with your friends and family and then reaching out to other people. and I think, Yeah, that's definitely a way of taking back control that we can.
[00:40:34] Unknown:
Yes, yes. I feel pretty much the same about that. Ah, yes. I think real change comes from small things that start growing organically. And I can also see it happening that, Well, I remember when I was graduating as a herbalist. Yeah, maybe we were with two or three people in our year. And now the first year of the herbalism schools are just fully booked. There are so many people who want to become a herbalist or if I look at my class, there's so many people who want to become a forager. And I can see people doing small acts of rebellion. And I really like that because that is how change is initiated. By small acts of rebellion.
[00:41:25] Unknown:
Yeah, definitely.
[00:41:29] Unknown:
That's interesting. If you. Yeah. So, how can people find out more about your work? Do you have like a website, a social media account where if people want to know more about you, where they can find information?
[00:41:43] Unknown:
yeah, I've just got, an Instagram. So it's Isaiza herbalremedies. and yeah. Where I'm just trying to post about little forages, that I find along the way and teachings that I have. but. But, Yeah, it's kind of just learning with me. because once you get into foraging an herbalism, you realise it's a lifetime of knowledge, to learn. So. Yeah, and then. Yeah, we've also got some information on the Q page as well, but yeah, me directly is on the Instagram site.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Right. And I agree, it is a never ending story. It's like a rabbit hole. Once you get, get into herbs, it's. I, I have been working with herbs for more than 20 years and it's still like an ongoing process. You just keep learning and having new experiences and exchange, exchanging experiences with, with other people and finding out new things. And then there is some new scientific research about some plants. And so yes, this is so I, this is the part of, of my work that I really like that I never will get to the level, oh, now I know everything there is to know about plants because it would get boring, you know, and it just keeps exciting me and I, I love that.
I really totally love that about my job.
[00:43:14] Unknown:
Yeah, no, definitely. It's always finding out new things and, and yeah, I've been trying to, you know, simplify my life. I mean maybe it's the soul spring cleaning, you know, coming in. but we really don't need that many that, you know, when you do get into herbalism, you're like, oh wow, there's so many different herbs that I can use and you want to learn them all. But I think I've kind of been realizing recently that yeah, we really, really don't need that many. And you know, that there's so many different actions that, that just one herb has.
And and it's like getting to know. It's like having a few good friends versus lots of acquaintances. And, and your, your good friend of, of 10, 15 years can still surprise you and you can realize, oh, like I can, I can use. I get you know, rose hips are actually, actually quite demulcent, or ah, can be used in that way, which I didn't realize until recently.
[00:44:20] Unknown:
so yeah, yes, yes, I totally agree with that. And it's nice to have some really long term herbal friends to rely on. Plants that keep coming back to you and just helping you out whenever you need it. So. Yes, that's nice. So Isa, thank you so much for this engaging conversation. And to you, Wilde that has been listening. Thank you so much for being here. I hope to see you back with our next episode. In the meantime, keep nourishing your wild soul and keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye. A warm thank you for listening. Wildie. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.comm and feel free to connect with me on social media.
I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Hi, Wildling. Hey. I'm still looking for some more interesting guests on, European herbalism and foraging. So if you know anybody that would want to be a guest in my podcast series, please feel free to reach out and contact me through social media Wildplant Forager, or through my website, wildplantforager.com. thank you so much. Much. Welcome to Wild the podcast for Wildlings. Just like you wildlings who want to transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. my name is Lieve Galle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in belgium since. Since 2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes.
Working with plants has become more popular. But I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal. I believe that together we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants.
And that's why, for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you are ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild. Welcome Wilde. Today I'm here with Isabel Openshaw. Is that right? Am I saying that right? Okay, so you are a forager. You work at Kew Gardens. You're also guiding people on, medicinal plant walks. Please tell us a little bit about how your journey with the plants got started. Was it something you learned from your parents or grandparents, or was it more a thing that you initiated yourself?
[00:02:42] Unknown:
yeah, so I think I've always had, I've always loved spending time outside, and I was lucky in my childhood to spend quite a lot of time outside. but the foraging that I did as a child was kind of just the standard foraging that most people do, which is going to the BlackBerry bushes, or on the dead nettles, taking the little flowers and, sucking the nectar out of them. but my grandmother, she was very into gardening, which definitely inspired me to get into gardening. and my mother also, was into, foraging along for elder and, making cordial. and it wasn't until one, time when she accidentally fermented it that I was like, I'm gonna on purpose ferment this. and then really, really got it connected to the elder.
It really kind of unlocked all of these possibilities, that elders got such a treasure trove, for medicinal properties, not only for the, flowers, which are great for cold and flu, and, a diaphoretic and a diuretic. So, yeah, stimulating sweat and urine, respectively, to flush out toxins, but then also in the autumn time when the berries come and they're perfect for the flu season. and so, yeah, I think it was a combination of, inspiration, from my grandmother and my mother, but also it was really elder that, unlocked the, world of medicinal plants for me.
and then, yeah, I got into thinking about what else was out there. and then, yeah, alongside that, I was also trying to steer my studies more towards, plants as well. because I always did geography and then maths for my undergrad and then applied that to the range Forest of North Borneo for a research project. then I did a master's in ecology and had a research project on ectomycorrhizal fungi at Kew. and now, yeah, I'm still at Kew, researching forests, for the time being.
[00:05:14] Unknown:
Lovely and really interesting. It's an interesting story about the accidental fermentation. What, was there an explosion?
[00:05:24] Unknown:
there definitely were a couple of mini explosions along the way. It sounds like a gunshot going off in the house when the cork pops. And for people not unfamiliar with this sound, they're like, what is that? going off in the house? And I'm like, don't worry, it's just the elderflowers.
[00:05:42] Unknown:
M. So as a forager, how frequently do you go out foraging? And what are your favorite places to go foraging?
[00:05:52] Unknown:
Yeah. So Kew Gardens is based in London, where I'm living at the moment. But I don't really like to forage in London. Because you only like to forage where there's an abundance, for wildlife as well as us as well. and say, like, nettles are one of my favorite things to forage as well. And they, accumulate heavy metals, which is also not good to do in a heavily polluted area. so it's mainly just on the weekends. And it's not like, I try and go every other weekend, and I'll just go to the outskirts of London, really, just on the train, because we really don't need that much to sustain ourselves for the year.
And, So. Yeah.
[00:06:43] Unknown:
Right. I really love your answer because a lot of people, like my students, they have really high standards and they really think they're only a real foraging if they go out foraging every single day. And it doesn't need to be like that. You can just go with the flow and do what works for you and your individual situation, I think, and the surroundings where you are. And yeah, I think it's really important that it fits for every person. You know, how you forage and when you forage and how frequently and how often you forage.
[00:07:19] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, I think it's definitely quite a time consuming commitment to do. And definitely I want to honour the plants and fungi that I bring home and by preserving them well or at least having the time to process them as soon as I get back. But yeah, I definitely do like preservation because many of the plants and fungi is only available at one time of year. So it's pretty ah, essential to be able to preserve them, to have them year round.
[00:07:55] Unknown:
Yes. And it's right that you have to calculate the preserving time also in your foraging time. I think it's better to pick like once a week and then be able to preserve it than to pick every day and then just leaving it somewhere to wilt or to go bad. It's just a shame of all the plants or the fungi you picked really.
[00:08:21] Unknown:
Definitely. But I think, yeah, when I got into foraging and if I've taken the time to go out there, connect with nature, I'm so much more grateful for the gifts that I've been given and I definitely want, want to savor what I have and what I've got. because, Yeah, sometimes, I don't know if you've also heard of like this meditation, the raisin meditation. when I first got into meditation, this was an example. And you take first raisin and you experience it through your different senses. and then you take the second raisin and you, you imagine everything that it took to get this raisin to where you are today. From the water, that touched the seed and helped it grow and all the people that took it to get there.
And once you think about all of the energy that went into that, you're so much more grateful for the food. And Yeah, I think definitely, you know, connecting with the life cycle of where our food comes from always, makes us more appreciative.
[00:09:35] Unknown:
Yes, totally, totally. I still see everything I pick as a treasure. Even after 20 years of foraging, it's still like a treasure for me and I will never take it for granted. And I see a lot of people that do take it for granted. And it kind of bothers me because really, you have to see the whole picture. You know, everything that is involved evolved, from the seed to whatever it is that you are picking, or from the spore to the mushroom you're picking. And yes, it's kind of the miracle of life that you're just involved in and that you are. yes, it's like a privilege to be able to pick it and to use it and to get nourished by it on different levels.
[00:10:23] Unknown:
Yeah. And I also feel like it relates to a connection with our ancestors, not only from maybe inspiration into getting into foraging, but also it reminds us what life used to be like as a hunter, gatherer and how much more connected we were with the plants. and that definitely creates a sense of awe as well.
[00:10:51] Unknown:
Yes, Yes, I agree. So one of the questions I wanted to ask you because for me, as a Belgian herbalist and forager, the UK sometimes seems like a herbal paradise.
[00:11:06] Unknown:
Oh, really? Yes.
[00:11:07] Unknown:
Ah, there are so many foragers from the uk. There is a high standard of education at herbalism schools. There is even licensed medical herbalism. That's just like a dream. for the Belgian situation, it's so drastically different. Here in Belgium, there is not even a thing as a licensed herbalist. It's not a thing. And so what I'm wondering is what effect this has on the general public, as in how accessible is herbal medicine? Is it frowned upon? Is it a niche thing, or is it an accepted and respected choice?
[00:11:47] Unknown:
I think it's definitely gaining popularity. And ever since lockdown, there was a really big, upheaval in foraging, which kind of leads to herbalism as well. but I still do think it is quite a niche thing, but it is gaining popularity. definitely. I think it's very interesting and great to hear that there's so many courses out there, because, quite a lot of the time, at least with the master's courses, I hear that there's quite a lot of them that are being pulled from the universities due to lack, of popularity or. I don't know, I'm very skeptical that the pharmaceutical companies are, in there somewhere. Somewhere, because I know that, there's quite a lot of censorship. Ah, that's at least coming from online at the moment, which is kind of scary. but definitely, I think, but yeah, I did a little bit of traveling earlier, this year, very early on in the year, last month, and it did make me very much appreciative of the amount of research actually that we have to our ah, herbs that we use. so contrasting this to tropical herbs, I think there is so much more research into them and that is due to the popularity from the people ah, driving this research. so yeah, that is really great to see.
and yeah, I think while I think it is normal, or is getting more normal, the norm for healthcare is still the nhs, which is great. But in the NHS they don't consider this holistic health approach enough. And I definitely wish there was more just consideration for herbalism and that that is an option. Whereas. But I think our ah, whole healthcare system has kind of taught us that the doctors are there to tell us what's wrong with us and then they'll provide something to heal ourselves. But with herbalism it's much more of we know our bodies best, everyone's different and it. We need to take our health into our own hands, to be able to heal ourselves. so that, so it's quite, yeah, a contrasting framework definitely.
[00:14:37] Unknown:
but yeah, yeah, yeah and it's, it's interesting what you're saying because yes, I think there is a lot of room for progress when it comes to complementary medicine. So where you have an, an integration of the herbal medicine in the, in the regular medicine or just that you use it to Yeah. For instance there are countries where you can have a chemotherapy therapy for your cancer but then you can go to the herbalist to make you less less troubled with nausea, with lack of energy. And I think that's also a beautiful model to, to have in Yes. And I also hear what you're saying about the power of the pharmaceutical companies which are, well they're very powerful here in Belgium.
because I heard you saying the herbalist courses at the universities. Did you really say that? So you can take herbal classes at universities?
[00:15:45] Unknown:
Yes, certain, universities, you can. It's within their masters. there's one called herbology. I know, there's also ethnobotanical, studies as well. but I think they are reducing in their numbers.
[00:16:06] Unknown:
So I know that there was a way that you could study at the University of Antwerp actually you could follow classes for natural, ah, medicine. But this was like. Yes, I think it's since ages. It has been just deleted from their offerings. So Yes, I think there's a lot of work that still needs to be done there. I think we can Agree, on that one?
[00:16:43] Unknown:
yeah, no, and definitely. Yeah. I think also coming back to when people choose to go down the herbalism route within the uk, I do often feel like it's a last resort for many people and that's why they turn to herbalism. It's often for long term diseases that they're struggling to find help with and, and then turn to herbalism and realize that it's helped for the long term.
[00:17:13] Unknown:
Yes, yes. And actually it should be the first resort, I think. so often people come to me and they ask, yes, I'm at my wits end. I have tried the cortisones and I have tried the antibiotics and I've tried. And then they're naming all kinds of therapies that actually are harming the body or you know, like antibiotics, they, they really destroy the intestinal flora. So I think what would have happened if you just used the herbs first and then maybe if they don't work good enough you could have tried some other options. But yes, I would like to see that happening. That people have this general knowledge so that they can just use herbs as a first, as a first eighth thing, as a, as a first remedy, as a first option and then transition to other options if it's needed.
[00:18:18] Unknown:
But yeah, definitely. And you know, they definitely do have this in other cultures where it's the first point of call. And we have it to a certain extent, on small things, like having a sore throat and you know, a lemon and honey tea. That's quite a common thing. but, but yeah, definitely not for, for yeah, for eczema. It's been a little bit of a. Psoriasis has been a bit of an issue at the moment with the cold weather. We had a cold spell last week and, and and yeah, I think that hydrocortisol is, it's just the first point of call that the pharmacists will recommend. but there's.
Yeah, there's so many different oils that you can have and such as calendula oil, which is my favorite one, to use. And yeah, because it's antibacterial, antifungal and that's what our skin is craving when it's dry, the oils. People are also confused. They think that putting oils on their face is going to cause, to have spots, where. Yeah, it's not quite the case. Our skin needs oil. and then, and then with antibiotics. It's so silly because everyone knows we're in an antibiotics crisis, yet the doctors are so quick to. To, To. Yeah, to prescribe them. And then if. And then, yeah, if. If you. If you're prescribed them by the doctor, then, most people will take them. You have to really put your foot down, which is what I do. And I'm like, no, I don't need them, to be able to heal different things.
[00:20:06] Unknown:
Yes. Right. And how is the average botanical knowledge, of the people in the uk and do you see a difference geographically like that? It's more of a common skill in more remote areas, like in the countryside, and less so in the cities, or how is that?
[00:20:27] Unknown:
Yeah, I think definitely. And it definitely makes sense. If you're living out in the countryside, then, plants are more of way of life, than in the cities. People are definitely more disconnected. I'm not sure regionally, across the country, but definitely, in more remote places, then it will be common to go along the hedgerows and collect from the common things to hawthorne and rosehips, as well as sloes, I think. also taught sometimes to be, you know, quite wary of these plants, such as nettles. Like, everyone's got a story of how they fell in them as a child.
and the only thing that people know that we do with them really, is have nettle soup, which doesn't sound so appealing, although it's actually great. I love putting nettles in soup. I don't. I don't necessarily make it just a nettle soup. It'll be like just, I'm making a vegetable soup and then just throw some other nettles in there. so I think, yeah, people are definitely aware. but, you know, there's always. There could be room for improvement, of the uses or how. often the different plants.
[00:21:58] Unknown:
Yeah, and one of the things that really fascinates me as a forager is the concept of the commons, which is a word that is connected to the word community. So for the people who don't know this, the commons, it's a concept that goes back to the Middle Ages, historically. And these are places that belong to the community, where you could go foraging, grace your animals, pick mushrooms. What are your ideas on this? Is there like a place for the commons in the future?
[00:22:35] Unknown:
just. Just for places where you go and forage. See, I think that that would be beautiful and great, but at least here across the uk, there is just so much farming land and it feels like all of our countryside is mainly farmland and not enough green spaces and wild spaces, although there are a lot of rewilding projects going on. and then, and then there's also, yeah, some, some protected areas which you're obviously not, not allowed to forage on. and obviously, you know, yeah, everyone goes to the supermarkets, which I'm actually trying to quit supermarkets at the moment. I got, I get my veg box and I buy some of my dry foods from like, some Whole Foods shops online.
and I am feeling much better for it, I think.
[00:23:35] Unknown:
Exactly. And I think foraging is also a very subversive thing to do because you don't need the food supply system as it is today. You don't need. It's the system, the industrial system of agriculture that we have today that is actually damaging the planet more, I think.
[00:23:58] Unknown:
Definitely. And within that system, yeah, we have such a, problem of food waste as well from that system. but yeah, coming back to what we said at the start, foraging makes you so much more grateful for the gifts.
[00:24:21] Unknown:
Yes. And there's also this personal relationship with your food which is different than going to the supermarket and just buying some anonymous food because you don't know where it came from, who grew it, what the plant looked like before. Like, there were so many people who do not know what a cauliflower plant or a bean plant looks like and how these plants grow and what they need and. Yes. So foraging really gives us this personal relationship with our food and with nature. And I think that's. That's essential for the future actually to have this relationship with and to realize how much we are part of an ecosystem instead of being outside of it.
[00:25:06] Unknown:
Definitely. I think, yeah, we have been on this path of disconnection for too long. and it actually did start. I think it did start with the agricultural revolution that we. That we started taking these plants and seeing them all as commodities, and just wiping fields clear and only planting one crop in the fields. and we, by doing this kind of slowly taking ourselves out of the food chain. And I knew that we were on this path of disconnection, but I didn't realize how deep rooted in our language it was until I was reading Braiding Sweetgrass.
And to the, Patawamuni tribe, they refer to all living things as beings, whereas in English, anything that isn't a human, maybe a pear is an it. And that really struck, Struck a chord with me because, our language is so important, which shapes our way of thinking. thinking that, yeah, we're outside of the food chain and we're not nature. whereas definitely foraging brings us back to that and makes us appreciate the seasons so much more. Which is what, which is what pagans and we probably did before we had Christianity come in and us and we were honoring the seasons which today is embolic. which marks the start of spring, which yeah, is a great way to look forward to the year ahead. I mean it's still pretty harsh winter at the moment or it's not too bad in London really.
[00:27:12] Unknown:
well here the snowdrops just popped up. they're starting to bloom. Not entirely yet, but they're starting.
[00:27:20] Unknown:
So yes, yeah, we've got some crocuses out as well. Snowdrops, which is exciting.
[00:27:29] Unknown:
I also want to talk with you about your work at Kew Gardens. can you tell us a little bit more about your job there, what exactly it is that you are doing?
[00:27:41] Unknown:
yeah, so I've always in my studies kind of been researching forests, ecosystems, and at the moment I'm looking at how much carbon is stored in the trees across the UK and that's mainly focused on above ground in the trees, and trying to get our estimates better because they're relying quite a lot on forestry estimates which are not that accurate. but then also I work closely with our mycorrhizal department. and they're looking, they're looking at synergy with our above ground team, what's happening beneath the soil, as well as how much the soil respires as well. So I'm also going to be trying to look to see what correlations there are between the above ground carbon and the below, ground.
[00:28:37] Unknown:
That's some really interesting research. Yes.
[00:28:43] Unknown:
yeah, no, it's definitely good and I'm lucky that I get to do some field work as well. So I think that's really important, tangible links to what we're studying. because I do quite a lot of coding in my day to day. So yeah, have a go at touching the trees as well and
[00:29:04] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah. So what I find really interesting about Kew Gardens is that they do a lot more than just being the Royal Botanical Gardens. there's a rather interesting article on their website that I found on using artificial intelligence in the digitization project of the 8 million. And that is just a mind blowing number. The 8 million herbarium species. in particular to find out if a species has been Misidentified. I found that so fascinating. And another new, citizen science project that are involved in is asking people of Britain and Ireland about ethno veterinary knowledge, the knowledge of how plants and fungi can treat illness in animals. And I love how it mentions this. They say this knowledge could be used to help develop novel biodegradable medicines for animal health and reduce the excess use of veteran pharmaceuticals, which is causing enormous damage to our soils and insect populations and slowly leading to the rise of anti parasitic and antibiotic resistance in serious diseases. That is so interesting. How do you see the role of botanical gardens in the 21st century?
[00:30:28] Unknown:
Yeah, definitely. I think that's so important, because, you know, one of the keys slogans, at the moment is our future is botanic. And that's something that I truly believe that we do need to look to. I mean, and I get this when I'm foraging as well, when I, spending time in nature, you learn so many different lessons because you can take so many different lessons, from nature and be able to apply them in our life, remembering that we are part of nature. and such as if I think I'm foraging from one place too much, maybe I'll get a bit prickled by the thorns and I'm m like, oh, that's enough from this place.
I'll have to move on now. but also, yeah, it can be used in so many different metaphors for our own lives. So I definitely think that, research into plants and fungi is so important. And And yeah, it's a shame that we're at Kew. We're always looking for more funding for all of our projects, because that's what we rely on. and I think, yeah, we just need more interest into plants and fungi to be able to fund all this crucial research, into our digitalization project, which is helping to get an online catalog because many of the specimens are just all, they're just dried copies.
and then, yeah, I don't know too much about, the veterinary research, but it sounds so interesting and yeah, definitely so important because we have so many cattle. And actually I heard something interesting, speaking to a farmer that they have medical, ah, fields. So not only to separate, sick animals and put them in the medical fields, but they'll grow, lots of different herbs in those fields and the animals will self medicate and choose which herbs are going to heal them. which I think is so cool. And it also makes me think that we probably used to be able to sense this so much better.
but obviously it's got quite far away from that.
[00:32:58] Unknown:
yes, it also makes me think about horses, the wild horses. It's such a robust animal and it really generally has a very strong health. But then you have the domesticated horses that are just, well, they, they need just around the right kind of food and they just need. Just. But it's because they're in a meadow all the time and they're contained and they cannot go a few. A few kilometers just to find, the specific medicinal plant that they may need. I think it has a lot to do with that. And yes, it's interesting to think about, how we instinctively could just find our medicinal herbs. And now it's more of a knowledge thing. You have to know how to identify the plants, how to extract round amount, of nutrients or of, chemical compounds that are in them. yes, I find it really interesting to think about it, how, how it used to be just our instincts and how far we have come from that.
[00:34:10] Unknown:
I m mean, I think def. I think definitely we do have a certain amount of that in us. I mean, I know that, I. You, like, I mean, I don't. I don't drink that much anymore, but in my, in my teenage years, I used to. I used to be. Get hungover and crave spinach. And it was probably because, you know, the iron content. And we do have certain cravings, that come through. And so I think, you know, it is something that we could potentially tap into if we, yeah, just check in with our bodies more. And
[00:34:44] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, I believe that too. I believe that too. But I was also wondering, like, Kew Gardens is quite different than the wild outdoors where you go foraging. It's more kept. It's more, you know, structural. How is it for you to live and work in these two different places?
[00:35:07] Unknown:
I definitely, Yeah, I definitely think it could be more. It could be more wild, because I like more wild areas. But I understand it's. It's a, you know, it's got quite, Yeah, lots of history relating to the royal family and they want royal Gardens. And our horticulture team do such a good job of keeping the gardens well kept. there is a little area of a woodland walk towards the back, which is slightly more wild. and then we've also got another site, Wakehurst, in East Sussex. And that's definitely. It's nicknamed like Kew's Country Garden. And it's definitely a Lot more wild open spaces, and forested areas, which is lovely to walk around. And you can bring dogs there now, to Wakecrest, which is pretty cool as well.
but, yeah, I think the level of upkeep is also so good. And it's so important for. Because going around the gardens, it's all about learning and identifying these different plants. And so, to be fair, if there's lots of weeds in there, then I'm gonna get confused about which sign is for which plant. so, yeah, I think it's such a great. A great place to walk around where the focus is on the plants.
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Nice. All right. So one of the things that happens here in Belgium, and I don't know how it is in the uk, if one works with herbs, people generally will tell this person, well, hey, you are pretty lucky to live in today's world, because in the past, you would have definitely be burned. and it bothers me because it gives a sense of privilege. Whereas in reality, I think there is a lot of reclaiming and activism work to be done in the area of herbalism. So I'm wondering, did someone ever say a similar thing to you?
[00:37:04] Unknown:
Definitely, yeah. I definitely do get that quite a lot. but, yeah, I think it's definitely important, to realize that that happened. And there's quite a good documentary, not documentary, a podcast on BBC Sounds called the Witch. And, that goes through the history of the witch trials. and it's really important because I think it was kind of. That whole scenario was a way of ostracizing just women, because I think women were specifically targeted and how that has impacted us today. And so our role was then we were kind of made to feel, a bit inferior or fear of treading out and stepping out, because. And it was traditionally, older women that were targeted as well, for being too independent. And, So I definitely think it's really important that we recognize that maybe why women today are slightly more reserved. And that may have been because we were persecuted for stepping out of line.
and it definitely also reigns true for, that we were persecuted, in our connection with plants.
[00:38:39] Unknown:
Yes. What I find interesting to see is how you also mentioned it, that in the uk, the world of herbalism, of plant knowledge, is growing. People are getting more interested in this. And I'm wondering how this will evolve, because right now, I have the impression that when it comes to things like herbal medicine, well, in Belgium, it's not really legal to practice herbal medicine. But I also feel that we should be Braver than we are today. We are just being nice and following the government rules. But. But we could also be a little bit more activistic about it and just trying to reclaim the right to practice our profession, really.
So. Yeah, and I think that has to do with what you're mentioning, that, you know, we're still being reserved and.
[00:39:37] Unknown:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. But I think. I think that. And I think the way to bring that forward is, I mean, I used to think that, you know, many of our issues are on a global scale or national scale and we need to tackle them at those scales. But after this past year, I've definitely, I've connected with a lot of different communities who are doing really great stuff. And they're all from the. From grassroots and from just small communities. And I think that is definitely the way that we can, That we can bring about change. And it kind of makes sense in like these, like small ecosystems, if you will, of communities.
and you know, that starts with your friends and family and then reaching out to other people. and I think, Yeah, that's definitely a way of taking back control that we can.
[00:40:34] Unknown:
Yes, yes. I feel pretty much the same about that. Ah, yes. I think real change comes from small things that start growing organically. And I can also see it happening that, Well, I remember when I was graduating as a herbalist. Yeah, maybe we were with two or three people in our year. And now the first year of the herbalism schools are just fully booked. There are so many people who want to become a herbalist or if I look at my class, there's so many people who want to become a forager. And I can see people doing small acts of rebellion. And I really like that because that is how change is initiated. By small acts of rebellion.
[00:41:25] Unknown:
Yeah, definitely.
[00:41:29] Unknown:
That's interesting. If you. Yeah. So, how can people find out more about your work? Do you have like a website, a social media account where if people want to know more about you, where they can find information?
[00:41:43] Unknown:
yeah, I've just got, an Instagram. So it's Isaiza herbalremedies. and yeah. Where I'm just trying to post about little forages, that I find along the way and teachings that I have. but. But, Yeah, it's kind of just learning with me. because once you get into foraging an herbalism, you realise it's a lifetime of knowledge, to learn. So. Yeah, and then. Yeah, we've also got some information on the Q page as well, but yeah, me directly is on the Instagram site.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Right. And I agree, it is a never ending story. It's like a rabbit hole. Once you get, get into herbs, it's. I, I have been working with herbs for more than 20 years and it's still like an ongoing process. You just keep learning and having new experiences and exchange, exchanging experiences with, with other people and finding out new things. And then there is some new scientific research about some plants. And so yes, this is so I, this is the part of, of my work that I really like that I never will get to the level, oh, now I know everything there is to know about plants because it would get boring, you know, and it just keeps exciting me and I, I love that.
I really totally love that about my job.
[00:43:14] Unknown:
Yeah, no, definitely. It's always finding out new things and, and yeah, I've been trying to, you know, simplify my life. I mean maybe it's the soul spring cleaning, you know, coming in. but we really don't need that many that, you know, when you do get into herbalism, you're like, oh wow, there's so many different herbs that I can use and you want to learn them all. But I think I've kind of been realizing recently that yeah, we really, really don't need that many. And you know, that there's so many different actions that, that just one herb has.
And and it's like getting to know. It's like having a few good friends versus lots of acquaintances. And, and your, your good friend of, of 10, 15 years can still surprise you and you can realize, oh, like I can, I can use. I get you know, rose hips are actually, actually quite demulcent, or ah, can be used in that way, which I didn't realize until recently.
[00:44:20] Unknown:
so yeah, yes, yes, I totally agree with that. And it's nice to have some really long term herbal friends to rely on. Plants that keep coming back to you and just helping you out whenever you need it. So. Yes, that's nice. So Isa, thank you so much for this engaging conversation. And to you, Wilde that has been listening. Thank you so much for being here. I hope to see you back with our next episode. In the meantime, keep nourishing your wild soul and keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye. A warm thank you for listening. Wildie. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.comm and feel free to connect with me on social media.
I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
