Dave Achula is a Dutch herbalist and educator with Ugandan roots.
He guides people on medicine walks, teaches the art and craft of herbal medicine, and hosts sacred ceremonies. Everything he does is rooted in the wisdom of ancestral traditions and informed by modern science, with emphasis not only on the medical properties of plants but also the relationships we cultivate with them.
We hope you will feel encouraged to (re)connect with the earth and with yourself through this conversation.
About how Dave's journey into herbalism began.
About feeling a strong connection with the earth and the natural process of transformation, and coming back to yourself.
About having a holistic approach to plant medicine.
About combining Eastern, Western and African herbal medicine practices and traditions.
About why you should connect with plants one by one instead of all at once.
About the time he spent with the Khoi tribe in South Africa and how that influenced his work.
About the comeback of natural medicine within different cultures around the world.
About how we can decolonize the botanical world in a constructive way, and how plants are a great way to learn about history.
About the challenges Dave sees for herbalism in the next 10 to 20 years.
And lots more.
You can find out more about Dave and his work on https://www.achula.com/
Or follow him on Instagram @achula__
🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.
If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚
🎼 music by Eva LaRuna
Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.
[00:00:33]
Unknown:
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for wildlings just like you. Wildlings who want to transform transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. My name is Liebe Gollle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 02/2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular, but I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together, we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you're ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild.
[00:02:12] Unknown:
Hi, Wildy. Welcome to another episode of the Wild podcast. And today, I'm honored to welcome Dave Achula, a herbalist and educator in The Netherlands with Ugandan roots. He guides individuals on medicine walks, teaches the art of crafting herbal medicines, and holds sacred ceremonies, all rooted in the wisdom of ancestral traditions and informed by modern science. Dave's journey into herbalism began with a deep curiosity about the natural world, leading him to study various healing traditions, including time spent with with the indigenous Khoi tribe in South Africa.
His approach emphasizes not just the medicinal properties of plants, but also the relationships we cultivate with them, encouraging a connection, a reconnection with the Earth and ourselves. Welcome, Dave. It's a pleasure to have you with us here. Thank you. So tell us a little bit, how did your love for plants really get started and how did you decide to become a herbalist?
[00:03:24] Unknown:
Yeah. First of all, thank you for having me. Really, honored to be here and, yeah, I'm very grateful for the work that you do. It's been a journey and it actually started as far as I can remember as a teenager. And I remember as a teenager, I had really bad skin, like acne all over my face. And, you know, when you're a teenager, that's probably one of the worst things you can have. You're so focused on your looks and being accepted by others. So I had this curiosity of how can I heal this, but I wanted to do it in an actual way? So I didn't want to do any, I don't know what the options were out there, probably like hormonal things, but I wanted to do natural things. So through Google, I found like different types of recipes. Like I remember making facial masks from Kokuma, from green tea and applying it to my skin. And I had so much fun doing it. I even remember putting honey on my face. And I remember my siblings were like, what the hell are you doing?
But I had so much fun doing it and also reading about certain different plants. I was very interested in it. And at this time I was 15, I believe, very young. And then it kind of faded away. And later in my life, I was around 19, 20. So this is like ten years ago now. I had this very strong calling And I have to say at a time in my life, I was quite lost. I didn't really have a purpose. I didn't know myself. I was not, yeah, asking the people questions of life. I was just doing something that's, was very far from what I would actually really wanted to do. So on this very particular day, I had this very strong calling to smoke, smoke Santa Maria. So Santa Maria is also known as weed, pot, green, many names.
I refer to her as Santa Maria as I acknowledge that the plant has a spirit. And this calling was so strong. The calling was today, I have to smoke, Santa Maria, and I have to smoke a lot of Santa Maria. And there was this very strong feeling of there's something waiting for me. I had no idea what it was gonna be, but I didn't question it either. So I smoked. And this time, I was living with my ex partner, and I remembered for the first time in my life having this very strong feeling of I need to be alone, which is very weird because I never asked for any alone time. I never asked for, space.
I never expressed anything like that. So I asked my girlfriend to leave the room so I could, be by myself. Of course, that was very uncomfortable and she didn't understand it. But after ten minutes, she left. And then when she left, there was a voice that came to me and this voice told me to put on a native American music. And without questioning why I should do it, I just went to YouTube, I typed in native American music, clicked on the first video. I sat on my couch. I closed my eyes. I put my body into a meditation pose, crossed legs, hand mudras, never done anything like that before. I didn't know the word meditation or, anything like it, but it happened very naturally.
With my eyes closed, the music started, and I remember hearing drums. And these drums put me, like, into a deep trance. And I remember coming into the trance, I saw the Earth in front of me. And I was just spinning across the Earth, making circles around the Earth. And at some point in the music, they started chanting. And with the chanting, I left my body. I flew out of my body very fast, and I entered space. And I remember traveling so fast that I had this tunnel vision, and I was flying towards the Earth. And, suddenly, I landed on the Earth and I was standing in a rainforest. And I remember standing here in this rainforest and looking around me.
And I remember thinking, oh, this is the Amazon. Nothing special. I wasn't scared. I wasn't afraid. I wasn't, there was no intense emotions. It was just a very natural thing that happened. I wasn't questioning it. I just knew I was in the Amazon. From the Amazon, I flew back into space, flew back to Earth, and this time I was standing in a desert. I looked around me and I knew this is the Red Canyon in California. I just knew it. There was nothing strange about it again. And I traveled once more, and this time I flew back to space, and I looked at the Earth. And it's the first time in my life that I saw the Earth as a she, as a living being, as something that has a presence, and I could feel it.
And I looked at her and I started talking to her, and I said, wow. You're so beautiful. And as I said that, I realized that I never acknowledged her. I never thanked her for having this humoring experience, for being able to walk on her and to breathe and to live. And I realized all of this, and I told her, like, wow. Thank you that I'm able to to have this experience. I was overflooded with love and emotions. And, at that time, I had a very close heart for many, many years, and this is really an experience that really opened up my heart. I felt so much love, and it was very new to me. It was very strange, but it felt very good. And I came back into my body.
I went to sleep. I didn't say anything to my girlfriends. She was like, what the hell were you doing? Because she heard the music and she was not used to any of that. And the next day, I walked through this park, a park where I came every day, and I remember walking there. And I remember looking up, and I saw the trees. And I looked at the trees, I was like, have trees always been this beautiful? And it was very strange. It was like, it was suddenly in my face and I felt such a strong connection. I was like, wow, what are you how beautiful can you be? And I looked down and I saw the flowers and I was like, my jaw just dropped. I was like, what is happening?
And when I looked up, I saw the clouds and I really had tears coming down my face for how beautiful suddenly the natural world was to me. And at this moment, I realized that my experience yesterday, it changed something inside of me. I also realized I cannot go back to the person I was, yesterday. And I also realized there's so much more to this world than I can see with my two eyes. And I needed to understand this other dimension or whatever I experienced because I didn't have any words for this. I didn't know what happened to me. And through that experience, my whole life changed.
That same month, my diet changed. I started to become conscious of what I put into my body. I lost a lot of friends, my relationship ended, and it was a very natural process of transformation and coming back to myself. And at the same month, I also met a herbalist. And at herbalist, I heard him speak about plants and the natural world and how our ancestors worked with these beings, allies for many, many generations. And as I heard him speak, my jaw just dropped again. I was like, of course. How could I forget this? And it's almost like I went back to my teenage years where I've found that love for, like, the natural remedies that I was experimenting with.
And, yeah, my heart just opened to the plant medicines. And I remember I did a one month detox with, certain herbs, and it changed everything for me. I went from someone who was very shy and feeling stagnant, tired, to someone who became so open, socially, but also energetically. I would travel to other cities suddenly by myself and start talking to strangers, which was very strange and new for me. But through connecting with those herbs, I saw very clear in front of me my path. And I saw that my path is with the herbs, with the plants, and then I need to walk this path, that this path is my path.
And that was ten years ago. And I'm be I'm walking that path now since ten years. Yeah. Wow. That's like an initiation
[00:13:01] Unknown:
almost. That's wow.
[00:13:03] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:13:04] Unknown:
Great. And I also, I really love I think this is the most I ask this question to every guest I have, but I've never heard. I think this this wins the prize for the most original answer as to, I I started to do the herbs because I had acne. It's it's very nice. Think about, you know, it was a blessing in disguise, the acne. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:13:32] Unknown:
Exactly. It's like your body is telling you something, and I was very curious to hear what my body was telling me. And it's made me go into exploration mode and it brought me here.
[00:13:43] Unknown:
Wow. So you've studied various healing traditions, including Western herbalism, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda. How have these diverse systems changed your approach to herbalism?
[00:14:00] Unknown:
Good question. So for me, it started actually with western herbalism. And I've done some training in that also here in The Netherlands, going to school and some courses in that. And it gave me a good understanding of which herbs are growing here on this European soil and what are the herbs good for. But it felt very limiting at the same time as, it was a very, from my experience, a one way approach. It was more of a, this herb is good for this. Mhmm. If I have a cough, then you take this herb. But it didn't really go much deeper than that. So with the Ayurveda and Chinese medicine, I felt like I could understand the plants on a way deeper level. I feel like I could understand the body on a deeper level.
Because these traditions, they also play with elements and with energetics. So every plant has a different energetic to them. So a plant can be drying, it can be moistening, it can be relaxing, stimulating, and it gives more this framework of finding balance within the human body. So if there's, for example, excess fire, if I have a sore throat, there's that's a fire condition within the body, and I'm not gonna combat fire with fire. So I could read, for example, ginger is good for the throat. I don't wanna drink ginger tea when I already have a fire condition because ginger is a herb that's also fire. It's adding more fire to the fire, and I don't wanna do that. So it gave me this framework of how can I find balance within the body? So how can I use a herb to counter actifier? So a herb gets more cooling, more moistening.
And that changed a lot for me, actually, to understand the herbs on a deeper energetic level and also the human body on a deeper energetic level. Because, otherwise, we're just, having a very simple one forward way. And herbs, they require a little bit more understanding than they're good for this. And, yeah, it gave me more of a holistic approach. And I think when we work with Herb's, for me, I wanna work in a holistic way. So going deeper to the roots instead of just treating the symptom.
[00:16:30] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. And then again, if you're just treating the symptom with this or this herb, it's pretty much clear that it's almost thinking the same as modern medicine, like, where we prescribe, like, one pill for one ailment, and it's yeah. The herbs should be more than that. It's like disrespecting the herbs if you just see them in a system where one size fits all.
[00:16:56] Unknown:
Exactly. We can have the same approach with modern medicine as with herbs. And, yeah, for me, when I introduce a plan to to a person, I always, I also always say, when you step into this world of herbal medicine, take it easy, take it slow. Because when you open up a book, you can have, like, a 100 different plants. It's a lot of information for a lot of people. It's a lot of new plants, new terms. And I'm a person who wants to learn a 100 plants at the same time. And, I learned through my own experience that sometimes it's good to just focus on one plant, focus on that plant for a month.
I even like to do a little dieta with a plant, meaning I sit with one plant for maybe two weeks, maybe four weeks, and I just connect to this plant. I just read about this plant, and I just ingest only this plant, morning and evening, to really connect with this plant. Because it's easy to read, in books what these plants are good for, and it's a definite experience to really connect with a plant, to really feel its spirit, but also to see how the plant is moving through the body. And that requires a deeper level of listening that I really encourage people to to get into.
Yeah.
[00:18:23] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And it's also the learning about herbs, it's a process. It's not like a moment. I see this with a lot of my students. They want to learn fast, but it has to anchor itself into, like, every cell of your body and of your mind. And it's it's it's a process, and you grow or your herbal knowledge, your herbal wisdom grows along with you as a human, and there is no fast way to do this. You you have to take the slow road to this, and then it becomes so much more valuable in my opinion.
[00:19:01] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we have to be humble when we work with plants, especially, for ourselves, but also for others. Because we can fall in these in in these pits of, wanting to do things too fast, wanting to, for example, treat other people too fast or give advice to people too fast when it's really not anchored within our own bodies or within our within ourselves or when we don't even really have a relationship with the plant ourselves. So it's also about checking in with with ourselves. When I say this, does it come out of embodiment or is it someone I want to be or some place I want to be? But it's a humble process. We have to be humble in the process of working with plants and definitely believe that, especially in this day and age where we want to be something really fast and don't really wanna take the time and the patience to get there and be humble in that process.
[00:20:09] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very interesting. And I think, like, social media has this instant gratification thing that doesn't really help in the whole process. But, again, yes, taking your time and and being humble is the key here. Yes. To yes. So, you have spent some time with the koi tribe in South Africa. Can you tell us a little bit about this and how it influenced your work?
[00:20:40] Unknown:
Yes. So I just returned from South Africa. My first time with the koi was three years ago now, and I just returned again. But I remember three years ago, I've done a lot of studying at that point, a lot of, training, but it was a lot through the books. It was a lot of learning, reading. And I remember I went on a medicine walk there with, this coy elder. And it was so interesting because throughout this walk, he would start singing, just out of nowhere. He would start singing as we were walking in the mountains and through singing, he knew in which direction to go, but he would also connect to the ancestors, to his ancestors, and to the plants.
And it was so interesting to me. It it without him explaining it, I knew what he was doing. And, also with some of the plants, they would first come and speak to them for a whole week. They would visit the plant, speak to the plant before they would even pick anything from the plant. And I was so amazed. I was like, wow. My books, my schools, they never talked about this. How is that possible? And, yeah, it kind of drove not drove me away, but it's created more perspective between, the science side of plants and the spirit side of plants. And I connected actually more deeply with the spirit side of plants, where I was less interested in all the chemical constituents and how plants are made up from the inside.
It never really made sense to me. And it was always very difficult for me to like, yeah, see why it was very why that was like, I was just not interested in it. Let's just put it like that. And I would always also think, like, if these plants have been used for so many thousands of years already, these tribes, these ancestors of ours, they were also not interested in that. They knew the plants in a different way by really connecting with them, talking to them. And, yeah, that very much inspired me. I came back to The Netherlands, and I actually saw a few things. I, noticed that we tend to favor exotic plants.
We tend to overlook what's growing around us. And also we're very much science focused over here. We're very rational beings. And it inspired me to actually connect to the plants in the spirit side, and I saw the disconnect that people experience here with nature. So one of the things I hear the most is it's hard for me to connect to Dutch nature. Everything here feels planted. Everything here feels fake. And I hear this a lot from Dutch people, from foreigners as well. And it actually inspired me these the spending the time with the koi to connect with the Dutch nature, to connect with the plants on the soil and the trees on the soil, and also to, teach others how to connect with this and to learn what is growing on our lands and to start looking so far from what is growing so far from us. Like, let's start in our own backyards.
Let's start in our own forest. Let's start in our own dunes and connect to these plants, because these plants are very powerful that we have over here as well. They've also been evolving for thousands, millions of years, and they have intelligence in them as well. And I actually through connecting, I saw how much they connected to the ancestors and how much they respected their ancestors ancestors. And it actually made me realize that, yes, I'm half Ugandan, half Dutch, but I never really had any pride in my Dutch side, in my Dutch ancestors. So I kinda always pushed away that part of me.
And through connecting to the Dutch lands, the Dutch plans, I started to integrate and respect and even find deeper connection to my Dutch side as well. And my mom's name is van Eyck, which means of the oak, which is a very beautiful name. It's directly connected to an oak tree. And thinking back, yeah, they really inspired me to respect both my mother's side and both my dad's side. And, yeah, they've also made me that's put me in a actually into a process of going deeper into, the history of Dutch herbalism, which I'm still researching. But it's very difficult to really to find what we were doing on this land, how our ancestors connected to the plants. And for example, I was, last week, at a friend, and her grandfather had this very famous, balm that he made out of herbal medicine, but, like, many years ago. And people from all over The Netherlands would travel just to buy his balm, but it was a secret balm, so he would never share his recipe and, he passed away and the recipe didn't, manage to survive. It's faded away together with him.
So it's very difficult in his country, to he can really see that there's still a strong stigma around plant medicine, around plants, and people don't really believe in it. And, also, a lot of the history has been kind of wiped away through, yeah, the witch hunt and I'm slowly trying to reintroduce or bring the stories from the plants back on this land. And this is really what the koi taught me is connect to your roots. Mhmm. Yeah.
[00:27:15] Unknown:
That's so beautiful. And I, I feel you own this because, for me, whenever I'm foraging in this land, where my ancestors lived, I feel so connected to them when I eat the wild plants that grow here because I know they have been eating them as well. And that's almost as if they are looking over my shoulder to me, seeing me eating these these same plants. And it's it's really a form of very strong connection that I feel. And then, again, on the other side, it's so hard to grasp it because, as you said, so much has been gone into history, like, you know, with the witch hunts. And there is so much lost somewhere, a lot of herbal knowledge. Sometimes this grief comes over me, to think about what our ancestors knew and what I I with even with the knowledge that I have gathered over the past twenty five years, it's probably not even near the herbal knowledge my my or the herbal wisdom my ancestors had. So it's very interesting to to think about it and to talk about it.
And, yes, I agree. We just plants are a great way to connect to the people that came before you.
[00:28:47] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:28:48] Unknown:
How do you think we could because I I what I hear strongly in your story is the whole spiritual connection that you have with with the landscape and with the plants and, how usually, like, western herbalism well, usually, for western herbalism, it's more like the science and and everything, yeah, scientific about the plant. How do you think we could incorporate this this more intuitive, contact with the herbs? How do you think what would be a good approach?
[00:29:26] Unknown:
I can already see it happening. I love to see how there is a move. And this is also one of the good things about social media. I see a lot of talk nowadays about connecting to the land, a lot of talk about ancestors. So a lot of information out there that's more coming from the heart and the body instead of the mind. So it's about being more connected to the intuition and to be able to let the mind go for a moment. And I believe there's great practices for that. So we see in the Western world, we have nowadays a lot of influence from the East. So we have a lot of meditation practices, which have become very popular over the years. Yoga has become a big thing, like a lot of embodiment practices where we kind of come back into the body instead of the mind. I think these things can be really great to tap into intuition.
And one of my personal favorite things is to actually sit with my back against the tree, to have my eyes closed and, you know, feeling the bark of the tree against my back. It already feels like someone is holding me as if there's a hand in my back supporting me. And there's always, I go into this meditation mode where if I'm struggling with something, if I feel like my mind is overactive, if there's something I want an answer to, I just sit there in silence and I always come or have a conversation with a tree and it's can be through symbols, it can be through an moment, It can be going through a deep process within myself where I can find an answer.
And that's really a great way for me to connect. But it really is about, coming back into the body and also acknowledging, like, hey. Yes. I grew up in a with a Western mindset with with maybe a hyperfocus on being rational. It maybe starts with acknowledging that and saying, hey. I will love to be more connected to to my heart space instead of my head space. I think it also starts with acknowledging that. Yeah. And then there's plants who can, like, boom, like, just blow you into your heart space, very quickly. Like, here in Netherlands, we work with the mushrooms, for example. And they really are a great gateway for people to come into the heart space. And, usually, when I have a ceremony with someone, I do one on one ceremonies.
There is this strong connection for nature that people, feel suddenly. It's like, wow. I feel like connected, like I'm part of the Earth now. And this is really something that Which they are. But before they they would not necessarily understand it, and now they can feel it. It's it's when you can really embody that feeling, then it's in you, and you cannot, unfeel that feeling anymore.
[00:32:31] Unknown:
Yes. What what I'm wondering now is how the outside world, so to call it, how other people react to the things that you are doing. So, I'm sure some people come to you and they they they are very open to what you are doing and your the approach that you have. But do you sometimes, when you when you tell what you're doing to other people, do you sometimes get reaction like, oh, you know, strange reactions or people that don't understand or that are ignorant or
[00:33:05] Unknown:
So from my ten years experience in this field, I've, come to understand how to communicate to certain people. So I change and adapt myself and my language, to certain people based on their current level of openness or yeah. Based on their current level of openness towards the world's spirituality. And some people, I don't tell anything. Some people, just know they're not maybe ready to hear this, or they will have a very strong judgment, or they're not interested in this. And some people, I noticed they're open but still a bit, skeptical about it.
And some people are very open. They're very interested in it. They maybe don't have that experience themselves, but they have an inner feeling of, there's something missing in my life. And I feel like plants, nature is I need to be there. So on these medicine walks, actually, what I have the most is people who, put their first footstep into, Hey, the world is bigger than I believe it is. And I feel disconnected in my corporate job. I feel like there's more to life. Then you have the people who have burnouts, they overwork their bodies for a long period of time and they find this rest back in nature.
You have those people and yeah, coming back to your question, I would say the majority of people, don't believe in the power of medicinal plants. They have a strong judgment towards it. And at the same time, nowadays, I do see a strong comeback of natural medicine within different cultures. So I also work in a herbal shop. We sell herbs over there. The majority of people that do come in are Dutch white people. For some reason, they are more open to the path of, yeah, natural remedies or herbal medicine, based off where I live. But I do have different cultures come into the store as well, and they would share stories of, oh yeah, back in Eritrea or back in Morocco or back in Turkey, my grandma used to give me this when I was sick.
So there is this remembrance of, oh yes, when I actually open up to people about urban medicine, there is this memory that comes up of, oh, yeah, my grandma also used to say this, or my grandma used to do this. And I would say ten years ago, if I would have these conversations with people, then, yeah, I would get a different reaction. They would maybe start laughing or become very rational, but yeah, do you, they would challenge me actually in, into whether I truly believe what I believe. And I see that in these ten years, there's been actually a big change in in that.
Yeah.
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Yes. I can see that happening as well. Yes. Yes. And I think people are more open and it's actually funny for me to see, in an age of of AI and, you know, like, it's like we we we leave more of the thinking to AI, and we start to feel more, however. And I think it's very interesting because I think in these times, what we have to hold on to is being human and differentiate ourselves from AI or from machines or from computers and think about what is the core of being a human. And and, yes, feeling and emotion and intuition is a very big part of it for for me. So for me, it's very interesting to see how the rise of AI almost seems to go together hand in hand with with, people becoming more connected to their emotions and their intuition, and it's I think it's very interesting to to see that happening. Yeah.
[00:37:35] Unknown:
It is. It is. It's beautiful that you say that because this week actually, a friend of a friend used AI to express themselves towards another person because this person was very much struggling with putting their feelings into words. Mhmm. And there's I would say I see two ways, like, this can be a dangerous thing where you can become dependable on AI, but you can also similarly like asking them psychologists that you see for help, like, Hey, how could I put this into words? AI could do the same, whether it's coming from a computer or from an actual person. It can inspire you to show you how you could express yourself.
And it can inspire you for the future of like, oh, I could actually express my feelings in this way. Let's try it the next time by myself. And I definitely see that the more advanced we become technologically, that there also becomes a deeper calling to go back into traditions that we, used to do connecting to the lands. I see definitely that, I agree with you. I see it too.
[00:38:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I also wanted to talk, to you about is, decolonizing the botanical world, which is, like, a big thing for me because I always it always bothered me, like, even like, in today, there is a lot of more attention to decolonization. But, I remember when I was studying herbalism, yeah, we were thought, oh, and this plant was discovered by this person, which is, of course, rubbish because most of the time, the plant was already growing where it was growing, and the local people knew exactly what it was and how to use it and where to find it and when to harvest it. So, coming from your multicultural background, how do you look at decolonizing the the botanical world or the plant world? What what are things that would be constructive to do here?
[00:39:47] Unknown:
It's a good question. I never actually, dive into the subject of colonization within the plant world. But I do hear people talk about it a lot, especially when it comes to plants like a cow or, Ayahuasca, things like this. I think I just have a very simple answer, and this is how I view it. I see we have one Earth, we have one mother, and whether things grow on Antarctica, South America, Australia, Africa. For me, it's about having deep respect towards a certain plant and to really connect with plants. And I've never been interested in who discovered this plant.
I've never had anything like that. So I've also never really dove into the subject of colonization, or from the plant world. So I don't feel like I really have an answer for that. Mhmm. No. I'm just not busy with, with that. I see as plants are part of the world, they are of the world. They cannot be owned by humans. They cannot be owned by countries as countries are also just manmade concepts. I think it's about deep respect for, for the Earth itself. It's about the respect for, the people who studied these plants and who put out the information of these plants and also connected with these plants. So saying that, I do see, for example, in South Africa, a lot of the Dutch people came to South Africa, actually learned a lot of that knowledge from, the, the people over there from from the Khoi, from the Xhosa people.
And I think it's about giving respect to where to to your teachers, actually. Mhmm. And to acknowledge like, hey, when we, for example, work with cacao or with Ayahuasca or with whatever plants to respect and to name where it comes from and to also honor those people Mhmm. And honor the plants and honor the land that it grew up on. So that's personally what I do. I don't have strict rules for it. I never really think about it too much, but I think that honoring traditions, teachers is a very important thing to do. Yeah.
[00:42:21] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. You can't go wrong with respect, really.
[00:42:25] Unknown:
But I'm curious to hear, whether you have an answer to that.
[00:42:29] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't think there is like one answer to that. I think, I think the West has actually a lot to make up for, in my opinion. And, also, let's put things in perspective. Let's not forget the plants were there a very long time before the human species even remotely started to exist. So, this this is a concept that sometimes people cannot grasp for some reason. They think that and, of course, people and plants have go coevolved for a long period of time, but they don't see how long we had plants before the humans came and how they provided I mean, like, they they they created oxygen.
We we would never exist without oxygen, so I think that's also something that should be really it's also about how to I'm thinking about how I can say this. It's also about realizing that we are here because of the plants. And, yes, of course, I hear I hear what you say, and I I totally agree that it's important to honor the teachers and and people that have been working with a certain plant for a very long period of time. And also to see how we can see plants as they are without their connection to the human world. And, yes, I see for a lot of people that is one step too far ahead.
But for me, it's it's very interesting to make this thought exercise of going back in time and think about how the plants were before humans and how, as humans, we, shaped the landscape. And, like, you know, you live in The Netherlands. I live in Belgium. We have the nitrogen problem here. And we see it throughout the landscape. You can see that the nitri nitrogen loving wild plants, they are thriving, sometimes thriving too much Yeah. Almost. And then, other plants are just eradicated. And that I think it's very interesting to see, like, I recently went to Portugal and, some of my friends have been saying, wow, when these flowers, oh, they're so nice. They're so nice. But these were all native plants in Belgium. And I told them, you know, these are actually not plants typical for Portugal. They're also growing in Belgium, but they, they have become so rare because we shaped the landscape. And, you know, we have decided as a nation to to do a lot of industrial farming, especially, animal farming. And it shapes the environment, and it shapes our landscape. And, people don't think about this enough, I think, how how, how big our imprint is on the lives of plants. And it can be a very positive thing as well.
It doesn't have to be negative, but just
[00:45:52] Unknown:
how big our our input is in how the plant world is nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Romans who came here two thousand years ago. They brought their sage, they brought their rosemary, their thyme, their lemon balm, and two thousand years later, it's like just part of our cuisine. Yes. Yes. Not such a big scheme. And I would say people are happy with it.
[00:46:16] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah, this this is also true. Plants are a great way to learn about history because yes, some plants are still here. Some plants are it's great to see how they are moving, how they are, the witness of certain, people that had contact with one another. It's, it's a very interesting, way to to think about it. Yes.
[00:46:39] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:46:40] Unknown:
So what do you think in today's world, so speaking as a herbalist, living in The Netherlands, and working intuitively intuitively intuitively wait.
[00:46:57] Unknown:
Sorry. That's a good word.
[00:47:03] Unknown:
What challenges and what, yes, what challenges do you see for herbalism in European context for like the next ten or twenty years?
[00:47:17] Unknown:
I think that will be a big rise in the interest for herbalism and for foraging. And I think with that rise, that will come might come more restrictions. So here in The Netherlands, we already have restrictions. So you don't even allow it by law to pick and bury, for example. But we have a Dutch word, which means, meaning they, will keep one eye closed if you pick 250 grams of one certain plant. So that's already a challenge. And I think within my own country, within here, The Netherlands, we're the most densely populated country in the world. So the parks that we have, nature that we have is already so small that we have forest rangers walking for them, checking whether we are foraging or not.
And we have designated paths telling us where we can walk and there's even fences around certain natural areas, which yeah, it just creates this more distance between us and the natural world. It's literally says, or it gives this idea of nature is something you go to, somewhere you go to. It's some, something you visit when there's paths telling you where you can walk. And for me to really feel that connection, I wanna go off the path. You know, I wanna go into the wild. I wanna have this feeling of, yeah, I can rest. I don't wanna run into other people. I just wanna be with the trees, with the plants.
And I kinda feel that, the word conservation is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger with climate issues that we try to maintain nature more and more. We try to, save it as if we, as humans, can save nature. And by that, we come with more and more rules. And, yeah, I see that how it's actually kind of restricting us from really connecting to the natural world, to the plants, for people who really wanna be there in the forest or who who really would love to, use or work with nature as therapy. It's they don't really get a chance because you cannot really feel safe even in the forest or in a dunes over here, off the path when you already have in the back of your mouth, oh, yeah. I might be fine if I'm actually sitting here. Well, you just wanna have a moment for yourself.
And even if you do that in a respectful way, it's, yeah, quite limiting people here. It's not really really encouraging. I think what we can do better is educate kids already in school, to connect with the land and to have nature programs, nature days where kids garden, where kids go out in nature, where they connect with trees and they learn about, the spirit side actually of trees, because it will have such a big impact where these kids will grow up and they will have way more respect for their environment. They would think twice about littering, for example, or destroying a plant or a tree.
And yeah. What would be a challenge in Europe? Good question. Yeah. I think maybe more and more restrictions in terms of, visiting forest and parks and and nature. At least that's what I see happening over here.
[00:51:24] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yes. And, yeah, it's pretty similar to the situation here in Belgium, whereas sometimes the whole message that people get is nature is better off without us humans. And I think that's I think that's in fact a dangerous message for people to receive, because they think they get this idea, oh, we're we're the cancer of the planet, and we're destroying everything, and doesn't have to be that way. And once they restore this connection, they they get more and more insight in how it can be to to actually support plants and sup support the whole ecosystem rather than than destroying it. But I think to get these insights, you really need to connect to nature. And, yeah, it's becoming harder and harder. And, but I can see local governments here are doing their their best and trying to, make sure that everybody has, like, some kind of green area within walking distance. I mean, that's that's the the goal the ultimate goal.
They don't always succeed. But, do you think the Dutch government is doing enough in providing enough green space, for the people?
[00:52:49] Unknown:
I don't know if it's the, if I should say whether the government is doing enough or whether it's up to people to, go out. It's a difficult question, actually. I think there's always room for improvement. I think we can do better. Mhmm. I really think we can do better. When I think when I say that, I truly mean it actually, we can do way better. We can do way better. Yeah. I always have this had this vision of why don't we plant, like, fruit trees in cities, so people have food to eat. Also, we have so many laws regarding you cannot, for example, in the street I live in, there's no gardens in front.
It's just all concrete. And you could, for example, not get a tile out, put some earth there and let your flowers grow. So with things like that, I would love to see more green in the city. Say, I would love to see more flowers. I would love to see more grass, more green, definitely. I would love to see much more of that. And I haven't been to Singapore, but I think, from certain things I've seen, Singapore is already going into a direction where they seem to blend the green with the modern city really well. And that's just from tiny pictures I've seen. So I cannot really say this from my own experience, but I definitely see room for improvements. But that's gonna take time, of course.
[00:54:33] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And I I can see that cities are more open to this because we now have the whole heat island discussion, you know, so like in a heat wave that it becomes so much hotter in in cities because of all the brick buildings, and, of course of course, a dense population. And to see that, well, they know that trees help and and open areas with green help. So, yes, I can see I can see some cities transforming in a good direction, but I think this will prove to be one of the challenges for the next, decades in Europe, and especially in the cities, where where, you know, cities face a lot of challenges. I think food supply is also one of them.
And, yes, as you said, we could have fruit trees or or pick wild greens in cities. It would be a great solution. Absolutely.
[00:55:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I would love to see more green in the cities.
[00:55:38] Unknown:
For someone who is new to herbalism and wants to, wants to learn more about herbs in more of an energetic matter, what would you recommend to be the first steps to take?
[00:55:56] Unknown:
Join my medicine walk. What I would say is the first step, like, maybe an example I used earlier is, let's say you make a ginger tea. You make this tea and you before you even make the tea, like, smell the herb. Work with your senses, feel the herb, and kind of see what comes through to you. How does it smell like? How does it feel like? Does it bring any memories or sensations up in me? Does it brings any feelings inside of me? And let's say you make a tea from this ginger and you take a sip, really notice what happens in your body. How does it feel inside of your mouth? How is your body feeling after this? So if I take a sip of ginger, I can sit, I just take a moment for it. So sit in silence, take a sip, and I will notice that, oh, my mouth is warming up. I can feel a tingling sensation on my tongue.
It's definitely a pungent taste in this. So with the word pungent, I can also feel like, okay, my body's warming up. I'm starting to sweat a little bit. I feel like my head is having a little bit of a rush. I feel a bit more energized. So just by naming out, what we experience within the body, we can kind of already make a link. Like, okay. If I put this into an element of earth, water, fire, air, what element would this ginger, for example, be? With all the things I just described, I would put it in the category of fire. Fire gets things moving with within the body. It gets the blood flowing. It opens the pores so we can sweat.
It energizes. It moves things within us. And, yeah, the first invitation is to observe within the body, even when you eat something, when you drink something, when you have a soup, see what happens within you. And when it's two herbs, I would recommend start with one herb. Don't mix herbs together. Mhmm. Because when we mix, it becomes difficult to really see what the particular herb is doing. So we just connect with one herb first and see what it does for you. Learn about this herb, sit with this herb. As I said earlier, maybe do a little dieta, maybe for three days, maybe for a week, maybe for a month, and really connect with this herb and see and try to categorize them into the elements that we have.
So an earthy herb are usually roots that we work with. They have more of an earthy taste to them. They help to have a sense of groundedness within our body. And then water herbs are more herbs that add moisture towards the body. And, yeah, I really find this framework. You can even read more about it. And not to promote myself, but I do have a herbal library on my website. And you can read all about these herbs, but also the energetics of these herbs are written there. So it's written whether this herb is fire, water, earth, air, whether it's cooling, drying, moistening, and what their herbal actions are. So what they do within the body.
Take it slow. Take one herb at a time. Pause with each herb. Sit with each herb. And it's a practice. It's a practice where you learn to listen to your body. You cannot rush this practice, take your time for it as learning the plants takes time. So I've been into this for ten years, still learning. Because some of the plants I connected with ten years ago, I'm still learning new things about them. So take your time, be, be gentle and be curious and always be curious and, listen.
[01:00:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Some very good advice there. And I agree. I, I still keep learning every day from the plants. Yes. It's just an ongoing journey, and it will be for the rest of my life. It's, it's it never becomes boring. Sometimes, they'll surprise me after I think I've known them for such a long time. So, yes, I think this is one of the the nice things about being a herbalist. Exactly. Yeah. It never becomes boring. Never.
[01:00:58] Unknown:
Exactly. I've, I've had a very beautiful lesson, actually recently with the stinging nettle after working for so many years. And it's very funny because we grew up actually with the stinging nettle, our parents telling us stay away from these plants. It hurts you. It's a bad plant. So I grew up with this idea of I need to stay away from the stinging nettle. And actually, when I was a teenager now, when I had this whole acne thing, my brother brought me to a herbal shop and the man working in the shop, he had a bag of dried stinging nettle, and he told me to, to drink it as a tea. And I was like, what?
Stinging nettle? The planet hurts me is supposed to help me? I was, like, afraid because I knew this was I thought this was gonna sting me inside of my body if I drink this. But, you know, when you have acne and you're a teenager, you'll try anything to get rid of it. So it's funny enough actually because I drank it for a month, and towards the end of the month, I saw that the stinging nettle, really helped to improve my acne. And so funny, actually ironic that the plant I was told to stay away from is also the plant that brought me back into the plant world. And then recently, fourteen years later now, I was taking some stinging nettles with my bare hands.
I filled the whole basket with it because I was gonna make a soup out of it. Back home, I cut it, still not wearing any gloves, made soup. And as I went for my first bite of the soup, I realized something. Like, wow. I've done all this foraging, a whole basket of stinging nettle with my bare hands, and I was not stung, not even once. And within a second, I realized why. And I really saw that throughout these years, this thing in nettle taught me how to be present. It taught me how to slow down and to really calm and really slow down when I'm foraging this this plant. Because every time I would be in a rush or too fast or my mind would be drifting off somewhere else, this thing, and that would give me a little sting like, hey, wake up.
And even in that sense, plants have so much to teach to us. Even while I've been working with this plant for so many years, this plant really taught me how to slow down in daily life and especially when working with her. And yeah, I always say I'm always a student. I will always remain a student. The plans are the teachers and there's always, always, yeah, more to them.
[01:03:47] Unknown:
Exactly. Yeah. I actually have the same experience with singing that also. It's just somebody else having that experience. Yeah. So Dave, where, where can people find out more about your work and what you're doing if they're interested in in your work? Where can they find more information?
[01:04:07] Unknown:
They you can find information on my website, which is achula.com. You spell it as a chula. Or my Instagram, which is also Achula. And you can find me in Den Haag, The Hague, The Netherlands. This is where I give workshops. So the workshops are based on making herbal medicine, tinctures, syrups, vinegars. The medicine works are about identifying plants, how to connect with plant spirits, going deeper into that. And, yeah, the one on one mushroom ceremonies can also be found on my websites.
[01:04:50] Unknown:
Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for this interesting conversation. I wish you a lot of good luck with all of your projects. Thank you so much for your time. And to our listener, thank you so much for tuning in again for this episode. See you in the next one. And in the meantime, keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye bye.
[01:05:15] Unknown:
Bye bye.
[01:05:19] Unknown:
A warm thank you for listening, Wildy. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for wildlings just like you. Wildlings who want to transform transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. My name is Liebe Gollle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 02/2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular, but I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together, we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you're ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows, welcome to Wild.
[00:02:12] Unknown:
Hi, Wildy. Welcome to another episode of the Wild podcast. And today, I'm honored to welcome Dave Achula, a herbalist and educator in The Netherlands with Ugandan roots. He guides individuals on medicine walks, teaches the art of crafting herbal medicines, and holds sacred ceremonies, all rooted in the wisdom of ancestral traditions and informed by modern science. Dave's journey into herbalism began with a deep curiosity about the natural world, leading him to study various healing traditions, including time spent with with the indigenous Khoi tribe in South Africa.
His approach emphasizes not just the medicinal properties of plants, but also the relationships we cultivate with them, encouraging a connection, a reconnection with the Earth and ourselves. Welcome, Dave. It's a pleasure to have you with us here. Thank you. So tell us a little bit, how did your love for plants really get started and how did you decide to become a herbalist?
[00:03:24] Unknown:
Yeah. First of all, thank you for having me. Really, honored to be here and, yeah, I'm very grateful for the work that you do. It's been a journey and it actually started as far as I can remember as a teenager. And I remember as a teenager, I had really bad skin, like acne all over my face. And, you know, when you're a teenager, that's probably one of the worst things you can have. You're so focused on your looks and being accepted by others. So I had this curiosity of how can I heal this, but I wanted to do it in an actual way? So I didn't want to do any, I don't know what the options were out there, probably like hormonal things, but I wanted to do natural things. So through Google, I found like different types of recipes. Like I remember making facial masks from Kokuma, from green tea and applying it to my skin. And I had so much fun doing it. I even remember putting honey on my face. And I remember my siblings were like, what the hell are you doing?
But I had so much fun doing it and also reading about certain different plants. I was very interested in it. And at this time I was 15, I believe, very young. And then it kind of faded away. And later in my life, I was around 19, 20. So this is like ten years ago now. I had this very strong calling And I have to say at a time in my life, I was quite lost. I didn't really have a purpose. I didn't know myself. I was not, yeah, asking the people questions of life. I was just doing something that's, was very far from what I would actually really wanted to do. So on this very particular day, I had this very strong calling to smoke, smoke Santa Maria. So Santa Maria is also known as weed, pot, green, many names.
I refer to her as Santa Maria as I acknowledge that the plant has a spirit. And this calling was so strong. The calling was today, I have to smoke, Santa Maria, and I have to smoke a lot of Santa Maria. And there was this very strong feeling of there's something waiting for me. I had no idea what it was gonna be, but I didn't question it either. So I smoked. And this time, I was living with my ex partner, and I remembered for the first time in my life having this very strong feeling of I need to be alone, which is very weird because I never asked for any alone time. I never asked for, space.
I never expressed anything like that. So I asked my girlfriend to leave the room so I could, be by myself. Of course, that was very uncomfortable and she didn't understand it. But after ten minutes, she left. And then when she left, there was a voice that came to me and this voice told me to put on a native American music. And without questioning why I should do it, I just went to YouTube, I typed in native American music, clicked on the first video. I sat on my couch. I closed my eyes. I put my body into a meditation pose, crossed legs, hand mudras, never done anything like that before. I didn't know the word meditation or, anything like it, but it happened very naturally.
With my eyes closed, the music started, and I remember hearing drums. And these drums put me, like, into a deep trance. And I remember coming into the trance, I saw the Earth in front of me. And I was just spinning across the Earth, making circles around the Earth. And at some point in the music, they started chanting. And with the chanting, I left my body. I flew out of my body very fast, and I entered space. And I remember traveling so fast that I had this tunnel vision, and I was flying towards the Earth. And, suddenly, I landed on the Earth and I was standing in a rainforest. And I remember standing here in this rainforest and looking around me.
And I remember thinking, oh, this is the Amazon. Nothing special. I wasn't scared. I wasn't afraid. I wasn't, there was no intense emotions. It was just a very natural thing that happened. I wasn't questioning it. I just knew I was in the Amazon. From the Amazon, I flew back into space, flew back to Earth, and this time I was standing in a desert. I looked around me and I knew this is the Red Canyon in California. I just knew it. There was nothing strange about it again. And I traveled once more, and this time I flew back to space, and I looked at the Earth. And it's the first time in my life that I saw the Earth as a she, as a living being, as something that has a presence, and I could feel it.
And I looked at her and I started talking to her, and I said, wow. You're so beautiful. And as I said that, I realized that I never acknowledged her. I never thanked her for having this humoring experience, for being able to walk on her and to breathe and to live. And I realized all of this, and I told her, like, wow. Thank you that I'm able to to have this experience. I was overflooded with love and emotions. And, at that time, I had a very close heart for many, many years, and this is really an experience that really opened up my heart. I felt so much love, and it was very new to me. It was very strange, but it felt very good. And I came back into my body.
I went to sleep. I didn't say anything to my girlfriends. She was like, what the hell were you doing? Because she heard the music and she was not used to any of that. And the next day, I walked through this park, a park where I came every day, and I remember walking there. And I remember looking up, and I saw the trees. And I looked at the trees, I was like, have trees always been this beautiful? And it was very strange. It was like, it was suddenly in my face and I felt such a strong connection. I was like, wow, what are you how beautiful can you be? And I looked down and I saw the flowers and I was like, my jaw just dropped. I was like, what is happening?
And when I looked up, I saw the clouds and I really had tears coming down my face for how beautiful suddenly the natural world was to me. And at this moment, I realized that my experience yesterday, it changed something inside of me. I also realized I cannot go back to the person I was, yesterday. And I also realized there's so much more to this world than I can see with my two eyes. And I needed to understand this other dimension or whatever I experienced because I didn't have any words for this. I didn't know what happened to me. And through that experience, my whole life changed.
That same month, my diet changed. I started to become conscious of what I put into my body. I lost a lot of friends, my relationship ended, and it was a very natural process of transformation and coming back to myself. And at the same month, I also met a herbalist. And at herbalist, I heard him speak about plants and the natural world and how our ancestors worked with these beings, allies for many, many generations. And as I heard him speak, my jaw just dropped again. I was like, of course. How could I forget this? And it's almost like I went back to my teenage years where I've found that love for, like, the natural remedies that I was experimenting with.
And, yeah, my heart just opened to the plant medicines. And I remember I did a one month detox with, certain herbs, and it changed everything for me. I went from someone who was very shy and feeling stagnant, tired, to someone who became so open, socially, but also energetically. I would travel to other cities suddenly by myself and start talking to strangers, which was very strange and new for me. But through connecting with those herbs, I saw very clear in front of me my path. And I saw that my path is with the herbs, with the plants, and then I need to walk this path, that this path is my path.
And that was ten years ago. And I'm be I'm walking that path now since ten years. Yeah. Wow. That's like an initiation
[00:13:01] Unknown:
almost. That's wow.
[00:13:03] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:13:04] Unknown:
Great. And I also, I really love I think this is the most I ask this question to every guest I have, but I've never heard. I think this this wins the prize for the most original answer as to, I I started to do the herbs because I had acne. It's it's very nice. Think about, you know, it was a blessing in disguise, the acne. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:13:32] Unknown:
Exactly. It's like your body is telling you something, and I was very curious to hear what my body was telling me. And it's made me go into exploration mode and it brought me here.
[00:13:43] Unknown:
Wow. So you've studied various healing traditions, including Western herbalism, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda. How have these diverse systems changed your approach to herbalism?
[00:14:00] Unknown:
Good question. So for me, it started actually with western herbalism. And I've done some training in that also here in The Netherlands, going to school and some courses in that. And it gave me a good understanding of which herbs are growing here on this European soil and what are the herbs good for. But it felt very limiting at the same time as, it was a very, from my experience, a one way approach. It was more of a, this herb is good for this. Mhmm. If I have a cough, then you take this herb. But it didn't really go much deeper than that. So with the Ayurveda and Chinese medicine, I felt like I could understand the plants on a way deeper level. I feel like I could understand the body on a deeper level.
Because these traditions, they also play with elements and with energetics. So every plant has a different energetic to them. So a plant can be drying, it can be moistening, it can be relaxing, stimulating, and it gives more this framework of finding balance within the human body. So if there's, for example, excess fire, if I have a sore throat, there's that's a fire condition within the body, and I'm not gonna combat fire with fire. So I could read, for example, ginger is good for the throat. I don't wanna drink ginger tea when I already have a fire condition because ginger is a herb that's also fire. It's adding more fire to the fire, and I don't wanna do that. So it gave me this framework of how can I find balance within the body? So how can I use a herb to counter actifier? So a herb gets more cooling, more moistening.
And that changed a lot for me, actually, to understand the herbs on a deeper energetic level and also the human body on a deeper energetic level. Because, otherwise, we're just, having a very simple one forward way. And herbs, they require a little bit more understanding than they're good for this. And, yeah, it gave me more of a holistic approach. And I think when we work with Herb's, for me, I wanna work in a holistic way. So going deeper to the roots instead of just treating the symptom.
[00:16:30] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. And then again, if you're just treating the symptom with this or this herb, it's pretty much clear that it's almost thinking the same as modern medicine, like, where we prescribe, like, one pill for one ailment, and it's yeah. The herbs should be more than that. It's like disrespecting the herbs if you just see them in a system where one size fits all.
[00:16:56] Unknown:
Exactly. We can have the same approach with modern medicine as with herbs. And, yeah, for me, when I introduce a plan to to a person, I always, I also always say, when you step into this world of herbal medicine, take it easy, take it slow. Because when you open up a book, you can have, like, a 100 different plants. It's a lot of information for a lot of people. It's a lot of new plants, new terms. And I'm a person who wants to learn a 100 plants at the same time. And, I learned through my own experience that sometimes it's good to just focus on one plant, focus on that plant for a month.
I even like to do a little dieta with a plant, meaning I sit with one plant for maybe two weeks, maybe four weeks, and I just connect to this plant. I just read about this plant, and I just ingest only this plant, morning and evening, to really connect with this plant. Because it's easy to read, in books what these plants are good for, and it's a definite experience to really connect with a plant, to really feel its spirit, but also to see how the plant is moving through the body. And that requires a deeper level of listening that I really encourage people to to get into.
Yeah.
[00:18:23] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And it's also the learning about herbs, it's a process. It's not like a moment. I see this with a lot of my students. They want to learn fast, but it has to anchor itself into, like, every cell of your body and of your mind. And it's it's it's a process, and you grow or your herbal knowledge, your herbal wisdom grows along with you as a human, and there is no fast way to do this. You you have to take the slow road to this, and then it becomes so much more valuable in my opinion.
[00:19:01] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we have to be humble when we work with plants, especially, for ourselves, but also for others. Because we can fall in these in in these pits of, wanting to do things too fast, wanting to, for example, treat other people too fast or give advice to people too fast when it's really not anchored within our own bodies or within our within ourselves or when we don't even really have a relationship with the plant ourselves. So it's also about checking in with with ourselves. When I say this, does it come out of embodiment or is it someone I want to be or some place I want to be? But it's a humble process. We have to be humble in the process of working with plants and definitely believe that, especially in this day and age where we want to be something really fast and don't really wanna take the time and the patience to get there and be humble in that process.
[00:20:09] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very interesting. And I think, like, social media has this instant gratification thing that doesn't really help in the whole process. But, again, yes, taking your time and and being humble is the key here. Yes. To yes. So, you have spent some time with the koi tribe in South Africa. Can you tell us a little bit about this and how it influenced your work?
[00:20:40] Unknown:
Yes. So I just returned from South Africa. My first time with the koi was three years ago now, and I just returned again. But I remember three years ago, I've done a lot of studying at that point, a lot of, training, but it was a lot through the books. It was a lot of learning, reading. And I remember I went on a medicine walk there with, this coy elder. And it was so interesting because throughout this walk, he would start singing, just out of nowhere. He would start singing as we were walking in the mountains and through singing, he knew in which direction to go, but he would also connect to the ancestors, to his ancestors, and to the plants.
And it was so interesting to me. It it without him explaining it, I knew what he was doing. And, also with some of the plants, they would first come and speak to them for a whole week. They would visit the plant, speak to the plant before they would even pick anything from the plant. And I was so amazed. I was like, wow. My books, my schools, they never talked about this. How is that possible? And, yeah, it kind of drove not drove me away, but it's created more perspective between, the science side of plants and the spirit side of plants. And I connected actually more deeply with the spirit side of plants, where I was less interested in all the chemical constituents and how plants are made up from the inside.
It never really made sense to me. And it was always very difficult for me to like, yeah, see why it was very why that was like, I was just not interested in it. Let's just put it like that. And I would always also think, like, if these plants have been used for so many thousands of years already, these tribes, these ancestors of ours, they were also not interested in that. They knew the plants in a different way by really connecting with them, talking to them. And, yeah, that very much inspired me. I came back to The Netherlands, and I actually saw a few things. I, noticed that we tend to favor exotic plants.
We tend to overlook what's growing around us. And also we're very much science focused over here. We're very rational beings. And it inspired me to actually connect to the plants in the spirit side, and I saw the disconnect that people experience here with nature. So one of the things I hear the most is it's hard for me to connect to Dutch nature. Everything here feels planted. Everything here feels fake. And I hear this a lot from Dutch people, from foreigners as well. And it actually inspired me these the spending the time with the koi to connect with the Dutch nature, to connect with the plants on the soil and the trees on the soil, and also to, teach others how to connect with this and to learn what is growing on our lands and to start looking so far from what is growing so far from us. Like, let's start in our own backyards.
Let's start in our own forest. Let's start in our own dunes and connect to these plants, because these plants are very powerful that we have over here as well. They've also been evolving for thousands, millions of years, and they have intelligence in them as well. And I actually through connecting, I saw how much they connected to the ancestors and how much they respected their ancestors ancestors. And it actually made me realize that, yes, I'm half Ugandan, half Dutch, but I never really had any pride in my Dutch side, in my Dutch ancestors. So I kinda always pushed away that part of me.
And through connecting to the Dutch lands, the Dutch plans, I started to integrate and respect and even find deeper connection to my Dutch side as well. And my mom's name is van Eyck, which means of the oak, which is a very beautiful name. It's directly connected to an oak tree. And thinking back, yeah, they really inspired me to respect both my mother's side and both my dad's side. And, yeah, they've also made me that's put me in a actually into a process of going deeper into, the history of Dutch herbalism, which I'm still researching. But it's very difficult to really to find what we were doing on this land, how our ancestors connected to the plants. And for example, I was, last week, at a friend, and her grandfather had this very famous, balm that he made out of herbal medicine, but, like, many years ago. And people from all over The Netherlands would travel just to buy his balm, but it was a secret balm, so he would never share his recipe and, he passed away and the recipe didn't, manage to survive. It's faded away together with him.
So it's very difficult in his country, to he can really see that there's still a strong stigma around plant medicine, around plants, and people don't really believe in it. And, also, a lot of the history has been kind of wiped away through, yeah, the witch hunt and I'm slowly trying to reintroduce or bring the stories from the plants back on this land. And this is really what the koi taught me is connect to your roots. Mhmm. Yeah.
[00:27:15] Unknown:
That's so beautiful. And I, I feel you own this because, for me, whenever I'm foraging in this land, where my ancestors lived, I feel so connected to them when I eat the wild plants that grow here because I know they have been eating them as well. And that's almost as if they are looking over my shoulder to me, seeing me eating these these same plants. And it's it's really a form of very strong connection that I feel. And then, again, on the other side, it's so hard to grasp it because, as you said, so much has been gone into history, like, you know, with the witch hunts. And there is so much lost somewhere, a lot of herbal knowledge. Sometimes this grief comes over me, to think about what our ancestors knew and what I I with even with the knowledge that I have gathered over the past twenty five years, it's probably not even near the herbal knowledge my my or the herbal wisdom my ancestors had. So it's very interesting to to think about it and to talk about it.
And, yes, I agree. We just plants are a great way to connect to the people that came before you.
[00:28:47] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:28:48] Unknown:
How do you think we could because I I what I hear strongly in your story is the whole spiritual connection that you have with with the landscape and with the plants and, how usually, like, western herbalism well, usually, for western herbalism, it's more like the science and and everything, yeah, scientific about the plant. How do you think we could incorporate this this more intuitive, contact with the herbs? How do you think what would be a good approach?
[00:29:26] Unknown:
I can already see it happening. I love to see how there is a move. And this is also one of the good things about social media. I see a lot of talk nowadays about connecting to the land, a lot of talk about ancestors. So a lot of information out there that's more coming from the heart and the body instead of the mind. So it's about being more connected to the intuition and to be able to let the mind go for a moment. And I believe there's great practices for that. So we see in the Western world, we have nowadays a lot of influence from the East. So we have a lot of meditation practices, which have become very popular over the years. Yoga has become a big thing, like a lot of embodiment practices where we kind of come back into the body instead of the mind. I think these things can be really great to tap into intuition.
And one of my personal favorite things is to actually sit with my back against the tree, to have my eyes closed and, you know, feeling the bark of the tree against my back. It already feels like someone is holding me as if there's a hand in my back supporting me. And there's always, I go into this meditation mode where if I'm struggling with something, if I feel like my mind is overactive, if there's something I want an answer to, I just sit there in silence and I always come or have a conversation with a tree and it's can be through symbols, it can be through an moment, It can be going through a deep process within myself where I can find an answer.
And that's really a great way for me to connect. But it really is about, coming back into the body and also acknowledging, like, hey. Yes. I grew up in a with a Western mindset with with maybe a hyperfocus on being rational. It maybe starts with acknowledging that and saying, hey. I will love to be more connected to to my heart space instead of my head space. I think it also starts with acknowledging that. Yeah. And then there's plants who can, like, boom, like, just blow you into your heart space, very quickly. Like, here in Netherlands, we work with the mushrooms, for example. And they really are a great gateway for people to come into the heart space. And, usually, when I have a ceremony with someone, I do one on one ceremonies.
There is this strong connection for nature that people, feel suddenly. It's like, wow. I feel like connected, like I'm part of the Earth now. And this is really something that Which they are. But before they they would not necessarily understand it, and now they can feel it. It's it's when you can really embody that feeling, then it's in you, and you cannot, unfeel that feeling anymore.
[00:32:31] Unknown:
Yes. What what I'm wondering now is how the outside world, so to call it, how other people react to the things that you are doing. So, I'm sure some people come to you and they they they are very open to what you are doing and your the approach that you have. But do you sometimes, when you when you tell what you're doing to other people, do you sometimes get reaction like, oh, you know, strange reactions or people that don't understand or that are ignorant or
[00:33:05] Unknown:
So from my ten years experience in this field, I've, come to understand how to communicate to certain people. So I change and adapt myself and my language, to certain people based on their current level of openness or yeah. Based on their current level of openness towards the world's spirituality. And some people, I don't tell anything. Some people, just know they're not maybe ready to hear this, or they will have a very strong judgment, or they're not interested in this. And some people, I noticed they're open but still a bit, skeptical about it.
And some people are very open. They're very interested in it. They maybe don't have that experience themselves, but they have an inner feeling of, there's something missing in my life. And I feel like plants, nature is I need to be there. So on these medicine walks, actually, what I have the most is people who, put their first footstep into, Hey, the world is bigger than I believe it is. And I feel disconnected in my corporate job. I feel like there's more to life. Then you have the people who have burnouts, they overwork their bodies for a long period of time and they find this rest back in nature.
You have those people and yeah, coming back to your question, I would say the majority of people, don't believe in the power of medicinal plants. They have a strong judgment towards it. And at the same time, nowadays, I do see a strong comeback of natural medicine within different cultures. So I also work in a herbal shop. We sell herbs over there. The majority of people that do come in are Dutch white people. For some reason, they are more open to the path of, yeah, natural remedies or herbal medicine, based off where I live. But I do have different cultures come into the store as well, and they would share stories of, oh yeah, back in Eritrea or back in Morocco or back in Turkey, my grandma used to give me this when I was sick.
So there is this remembrance of, oh yes, when I actually open up to people about urban medicine, there is this memory that comes up of, oh, yeah, my grandma also used to say this, or my grandma used to do this. And I would say ten years ago, if I would have these conversations with people, then, yeah, I would get a different reaction. They would maybe start laughing or become very rational, but yeah, do you, they would challenge me actually in, into whether I truly believe what I believe. And I see that in these ten years, there's been actually a big change in in that.
Yeah.
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Yes. I can see that happening as well. Yes. Yes. And I think people are more open and it's actually funny for me to see, in an age of of AI and, you know, like, it's like we we we leave more of the thinking to AI, and we start to feel more, however. And I think it's very interesting because I think in these times, what we have to hold on to is being human and differentiate ourselves from AI or from machines or from computers and think about what is the core of being a human. And and, yes, feeling and emotion and intuition is a very big part of it for for me. So for me, it's very interesting to see how the rise of AI almost seems to go together hand in hand with with, people becoming more connected to their emotions and their intuition, and it's I think it's very interesting to to see that happening. Yeah.
[00:37:35] Unknown:
It is. It is. It's beautiful that you say that because this week actually, a friend of a friend used AI to express themselves towards another person because this person was very much struggling with putting their feelings into words. Mhmm. And there's I would say I see two ways, like, this can be a dangerous thing where you can become dependable on AI, but you can also similarly like asking them psychologists that you see for help, like, Hey, how could I put this into words? AI could do the same, whether it's coming from a computer or from an actual person. It can inspire you to show you how you could express yourself.
And it can inspire you for the future of like, oh, I could actually express my feelings in this way. Let's try it the next time by myself. And I definitely see that the more advanced we become technologically, that there also becomes a deeper calling to go back into traditions that we, used to do connecting to the lands. I see definitely that, I agree with you. I see it too.
[00:38:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I also wanted to talk, to you about is, decolonizing the botanical world, which is, like, a big thing for me because I always it always bothered me, like, even like, in today, there is a lot of more attention to decolonization. But, I remember when I was studying herbalism, yeah, we were thought, oh, and this plant was discovered by this person, which is, of course, rubbish because most of the time, the plant was already growing where it was growing, and the local people knew exactly what it was and how to use it and where to find it and when to harvest it. So, coming from your multicultural background, how do you look at decolonizing the the botanical world or the plant world? What what are things that would be constructive to do here?
[00:39:47] Unknown:
It's a good question. I never actually, dive into the subject of colonization within the plant world. But I do hear people talk about it a lot, especially when it comes to plants like a cow or, Ayahuasca, things like this. I think I just have a very simple answer, and this is how I view it. I see we have one Earth, we have one mother, and whether things grow on Antarctica, South America, Australia, Africa. For me, it's about having deep respect towards a certain plant and to really connect with plants. And I've never been interested in who discovered this plant.
I've never had anything like that. So I've also never really dove into the subject of colonization, or from the plant world. So I don't feel like I really have an answer for that. Mhmm. No. I'm just not busy with, with that. I see as plants are part of the world, they are of the world. They cannot be owned by humans. They cannot be owned by countries as countries are also just manmade concepts. I think it's about deep respect for, for the Earth itself. It's about the respect for, the people who studied these plants and who put out the information of these plants and also connected with these plants. So saying that, I do see, for example, in South Africa, a lot of the Dutch people came to South Africa, actually learned a lot of that knowledge from, the, the people over there from from the Khoi, from the Xhosa people.
And I think it's about giving respect to where to to your teachers, actually. Mhmm. And to acknowledge like, hey, when we, for example, work with cacao or with Ayahuasca or with whatever plants to respect and to name where it comes from and to also honor those people Mhmm. And honor the plants and honor the land that it grew up on. So that's personally what I do. I don't have strict rules for it. I never really think about it too much, but I think that honoring traditions, teachers is a very important thing to do. Yeah.
[00:42:21] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. You can't go wrong with respect, really.
[00:42:25] Unknown:
But I'm curious to hear, whether you have an answer to that.
[00:42:29] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't think there is like one answer to that. I think, I think the West has actually a lot to make up for, in my opinion. And, also, let's put things in perspective. Let's not forget the plants were there a very long time before the human species even remotely started to exist. So, this this is a concept that sometimes people cannot grasp for some reason. They think that and, of course, people and plants have go coevolved for a long period of time, but they don't see how long we had plants before the humans came and how they provided I mean, like, they they they created oxygen.
We we would never exist without oxygen, so I think that's also something that should be really it's also about how to I'm thinking about how I can say this. It's also about realizing that we are here because of the plants. And, yes, of course, I hear I hear what you say, and I I totally agree that it's important to honor the teachers and and people that have been working with a certain plant for a very long period of time. And also to see how we can see plants as they are without their connection to the human world. And, yes, I see for a lot of people that is one step too far ahead.
But for me, it's it's very interesting to make this thought exercise of going back in time and think about how the plants were before humans and how, as humans, we, shaped the landscape. And, like, you know, you live in The Netherlands. I live in Belgium. We have the nitrogen problem here. And we see it throughout the landscape. You can see that the nitri nitrogen loving wild plants, they are thriving, sometimes thriving too much Yeah. Almost. And then, other plants are just eradicated. And that I think it's very interesting to see, like, I recently went to Portugal and, some of my friends have been saying, wow, when these flowers, oh, they're so nice. They're so nice. But these were all native plants in Belgium. And I told them, you know, these are actually not plants typical for Portugal. They're also growing in Belgium, but they, they have become so rare because we shaped the landscape. And, you know, we have decided as a nation to to do a lot of industrial farming, especially, animal farming. And it shapes the environment, and it shapes our landscape. And, people don't think about this enough, I think, how how, how big our imprint is on the lives of plants. And it can be a very positive thing as well.
It doesn't have to be negative, but just
[00:45:52] Unknown:
how big our our input is in how the plant world is nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Romans who came here two thousand years ago. They brought their sage, they brought their rosemary, their thyme, their lemon balm, and two thousand years later, it's like just part of our cuisine. Yes. Yes. Not such a big scheme. And I would say people are happy with it.
[00:46:16] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah, this this is also true. Plants are a great way to learn about history because yes, some plants are still here. Some plants are it's great to see how they are moving, how they are, the witness of certain, people that had contact with one another. It's, it's a very interesting, way to to think about it. Yes.
[00:46:39] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:46:40] Unknown:
So what do you think in today's world, so speaking as a herbalist, living in The Netherlands, and working intuitively intuitively intuitively wait.
[00:46:57] Unknown:
Sorry. That's a good word.
[00:47:03] Unknown:
What challenges and what, yes, what challenges do you see for herbalism in European context for like the next ten or twenty years?
[00:47:17] Unknown:
I think that will be a big rise in the interest for herbalism and for foraging. And I think with that rise, that will come might come more restrictions. So here in The Netherlands, we already have restrictions. So you don't even allow it by law to pick and bury, for example. But we have a Dutch word, which means, meaning they, will keep one eye closed if you pick 250 grams of one certain plant. So that's already a challenge. And I think within my own country, within here, The Netherlands, we're the most densely populated country in the world. So the parks that we have, nature that we have is already so small that we have forest rangers walking for them, checking whether we are foraging or not.
And we have designated paths telling us where we can walk and there's even fences around certain natural areas, which yeah, it just creates this more distance between us and the natural world. It's literally says, or it gives this idea of nature is something you go to, somewhere you go to. It's some, something you visit when there's paths telling you where you can walk. And for me to really feel that connection, I wanna go off the path. You know, I wanna go into the wild. I wanna have this feeling of, yeah, I can rest. I don't wanna run into other people. I just wanna be with the trees, with the plants.
And I kinda feel that, the word conservation is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger with climate issues that we try to maintain nature more and more. We try to, save it as if we, as humans, can save nature. And by that, we come with more and more rules. And, yeah, I see that how it's actually kind of restricting us from really connecting to the natural world, to the plants, for people who really wanna be there in the forest or who who really would love to, use or work with nature as therapy. It's they don't really get a chance because you cannot really feel safe even in the forest or in a dunes over here, off the path when you already have in the back of your mouth, oh, yeah. I might be fine if I'm actually sitting here. Well, you just wanna have a moment for yourself.
And even if you do that in a respectful way, it's, yeah, quite limiting people here. It's not really really encouraging. I think what we can do better is educate kids already in school, to connect with the land and to have nature programs, nature days where kids garden, where kids go out in nature, where they connect with trees and they learn about, the spirit side actually of trees, because it will have such a big impact where these kids will grow up and they will have way more respect for their environment. They would think twice about littering, for example, or destroying a plant or a tree.
And yeah. What would be a challenge in Europe? Good question. Yeah. I think maybe more and more restrictions in terms of, visiting forest and parks and and nature. At least that's what I see happening over here.
[00:51:24] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yes. And, yeah, it's pretty similar to the situation here in Belgium, whereas sometimes the whole message that people get is nature is better off without us humans. And I think that's I think that's in fact a dangerous message for people to receive, because they think they get this idea, oh, we're we're the cancer of the planet, and we're destroying everything, and doesn't have to be that way. And once they restore this connection, they they get more and more insight in how it can be to to actually support plants and sup support the whole ecosystem rather than than destroying it. But I think to get these insights, you really need to connect to nature. And, yeah, it's becoming harder and harder. And, but I can see local governments here are doing their their best and trying to, make sure that everybody has, like, some kind of green area within walking distance. I mean, that's that's the the goal the ultimate goal.
They don't always succeed. But, do you think the Dutch government is doing enough in providing enough green space, for the people?
[00:52:49] Unknown:
I don't know if it's the, if I should say whether the government is doing enough or whether it's up to people to, go out. It's a difficult question, actually. I think there's always room for improvement. I think we can do better. Mhmm. I really think we can do better. When I think when I say that, I truly mean it actually, we can do way better. We can do way better. Yeah. I always have this had this vision of why don't we plant, like, fruit trees in cities, so people have food to eat. Also, we have so many laws regarding you cannot, for example, in the street I live in, there's no gardens in front.
It's just all concrete. And you could, for example, not get a tile out, put some earth there and let your flowers grow. So with things like that, I would love to see more green in the city. Say, I would love to see more flowers. I would love to see more grass, more green, definitely. I would love to see much more of that. And I haven't been to Singapore, but I think, from certain things I've seen, Singapore is already going into a direction where they seem to blend the green with the modern city really well. And that's just from tiny pictures I've seen. So I cannot really say this from my own experience, but I definitely see room for improvements. But that's gonna take time, of course.
[00:54:33] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And I I can see that cities are more open to this because we now have the whole heat island discussion, you know, so like in a heat wave that it becomes so much hotter in in cities because of all the brick buildings, and, of course of course, a dense population. And to see that, well, they know that trees help and and open areas with green help. So, yes, I can see I can see some cities transforming in a good direction, but I think this will prove to be one of the challenges for the next, decades in Europe, and especially in the cities, where where, you know, cities face a lot of challenges. I think food supply is also one of them.
And, yes, as you said, we could have fruit trees or or pick wild greens in cities. It would be a great solution. Absolutely.
[00:55:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I would love to see more green in the cities.
[00:55:38] Unknown:
For someone who is new to herbalism and wants to, wants to learn more about herbs in more of an energetic matter, what would you recommend to be the first steps to take?
[00:55:56] Unknown:
Join my medicine walk. What I would say is the first step, like, maybe an example I used earlier is, let's say you make a ginger tea. You make this tea and you before you even make the tea, like, smell the herb. Work with your senses, feel the herb, and kind of see what comes through to you. How does it smell like? How does it feel like? Does it bring any memories or sensations up in me? Does it brings any feelings inside of me? And let's say you make a tea from this ginger and you take a sip, really notice what happens in your body. How does it feel inside of your mouth? How is your body feeling after this? So if I take a sip of ginger, I can sit, I just take a moment for it. So sit in silence, take a sip, and I will notice that, oh, my mouth is warming up. I can feel a tingling sensation on my tongue.
It's definitely a pungent taste in this. So with the word pungent, I can also feel like, okay, my body's warming up. I'm starting to sweat a little bit. I feel like my head is having a little bit of a rush. I feel a bit more energized. So just by naming out, what we experience within the body, we can kind of already make a link. Like, okay. If I put this into an element of earth, water, fire, air, what element would this ginger, for example, be? With all the things I just described, I would put it in the category of fire. Fire gets things moving with within the body. It gets the blood flowing. It opens the pores so we can sweat.
It energizes. It moves things within us. And, yeah, the first invitation is to observe within the body, even when you eat something, when you drink something, when you have a soup, see what happens within you. And when it's two herbs, I would recommend start with one herb. Don't mix herbs together. Mhmm. Because when we mix, it becomes difficult to really see what the particular herb is doing. So we just connect with one herb first and see what it does for you. Learn about this herb, sit with this herb. As I said earlier, maybe do a little dieta, maybe for three days, maybe for a week, maybe for a month, and really connect with this herb and see and try to categorize them into the elements that we have.
So an earthy herb are usually roots that we work with. They have more of an earthy taste to them. They help to have a sense of groundedness within our body. And then water herbs are more herbs that add moisture towards the body. And, yeah, I really find this framework. You can even read more about it. And not to promote myself, but I do have a herbal library on my website. And you can read all about these herbs, but also the energetics of these herbs are written there. So it's written whether this herb is fire, water, earth, air, whether it's cooling, drying, moistening, and what their herbal actions are. So what they do within the body.
Take it slow. Take one herb at a time. Pause with each herb. Sit with each herb. And it's a practice. It's a practice where you learn to listen to your body. You cannot rush this practice, take your time for it as learning the plants takes time. So I've been into this for ten years, still learning. Because some of the plants I connected with ten years ago, I'm still learning new things about them. So take your time, be, be gentle and be curious and always be curious and, listen.
[01:00:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Some very good advice there. And I agree. I, I still keep learning every day from the plants. Yes. It's just an ongoing journey, and it will be for the rest of my life. It's, it's it never becomes boring. Sometimes, they'll surprise me after I think I've known them for such a long time. So, yes, I think this is one of the the nice things about being a herbalist. Exactly. Yeah. It never becomes boring. Never.
[01:00:58] Unknown:
Exactly. I've, I've had a very beautiful lesson, actually recently with the stinging nettle after working for so many years. And it's very funny because we grew up actually with the stinging nettle, our parents telling us stay away from these plants. It hurts you. It's a bad plant. So I grew up with this idea of I need to stay away from the stinging nettle. And actually, when I was a teenager now, when I had this whole acne thing, my brother brought me to a herbal shop and the man working in the shop, he had a bag of dried stinging nettle, and he told me to, to drink it as a tea. And I was like, what?
Stinging nettle? The planet hurts me is supposed to help me? I was, like, afraid because I knew this was I thought this was gonna sting me inside of my body if I drink this. But, you know, when you have acne and you're a teenager, you'll try anything to get rid of it. So it's funny enough actually because I drank it for a month, and towards the end of the month, I saw that the stinging nettle, really helped to improve my acne. And so funny, actually ironic that the plant I was told to stay away from is also the plant that brought me back into the plant world. And then recently, fourteen years later now, I was taking some stinging nettles with my bare hands.
I filled the whole basket with it because I was gonna make a soup out of it. Back home, I cut it, still not wearing any gloves, made soup. And as I went for my first bite of the soup, I realized something. Like, wow. I've done all this foraging, a whole basket of stinging nettle with my bare hands, and I was not stung, not even once. And within a second, I realized why. And I really saw that throughout these years, this thing in nettle taught me how to be present. It taught me how to slow down and to really calm and really slow down when I'm foraging this this plant. Because every time I would be in a rush or too fast or my mind would be drifting off somewhere else, this thing, and that would give me a little sting like, hey, wake up.
And even in that sense, plants have so much to teach to us. Even while I've been working with this plant for so many years, this plant really taught me how to slow down in daily life and especially when working with her. And yeah, I always say I'm always a student. I will always remain a student. The plans are the teachers and there's always, always, yeah, more to them.
[01:03:47] Unknown:
Exactly. Yeah. I actually have the same experience with singing that also. It's just somebody else having that experience. Yeah. So Dave, where, where can people find out more about your work and what you're doing if they're interested in in your work? Where can they find more information?
[01:04:07] Unknown:
They you can find information on my website, which is achula.com. You spell it as a chula. Or my Instagram, which is also Achula. And you can find me in Den Haag, The Hague, The Netherlands. This is where I give workshops. So the workshops are based on making herbal medicine, tinctures, syrups, vinegars. The medicine works are about identifying plants, how to connect with plant spirits, going deeper into that. And, yeah, the one on one mushroom ceremonies can also be found on my websites.
[01:04:50] Unknown:
Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for this interesting conversation. I wish you a lot of good luck with all of your projects. Thank you so much for your time. And to our listener, thank you so much for tuning in again for this episode. See you in the next one. And in the meantime, keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye bye.
[01:05:15] Unknown:
Bye bye.
[01:05:19] Unknown:
A warm thank you for listening, Wildy. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Introduction to Wild Podcast
Meet Dave Achula: Herbalist and Educator
Dave's Journey into Herbalism
Exploring Diverse Healing Traditions
Connecting with the Khoi Tribe
Intuitive Herbalism and Spiritual Connection
Decolonizing the Botanical World
Challenges and Opportunities in European Herbalism
First Steps into Energetic Herbalism
Conclusion and Where to Find More
