01 April 2025
#11 Foraging, farming, and culinary creativity with Swiss chef Rebecca Clopath - E11
Rebecca Clopath is an acclaimed chef from Switzerland, known for her innovative approach to sustainable gastronomy. She combines foraging, farming, and culinary creativity to create dishes that not only tell a story but also honour the land where they come from.
Let us inspire you to rethink your relationship with food and nature with this delicious conversation.
About her deep connection to local terroir and nature.
About a mindful eating philosophy that goes far beyond the plate.
About slow learning and getting to know all about 2 or 3 plants each year.
About the catch 22 of nature preservation in Belgium.
About discovering exotic flavours in local ingredients and the plants that have surprised Rebecca when creating dishes.
About the challenges and advantages of foraging in the Swiss mountains.
And lots more.
You can find more information about Rebecca and her culinary adventures here: https://rebecca-clopath.ch/
You can also follow her on Instagram: @rebeccaclopath
Or connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-clopath/
📷 Photos of Rebecca by Claudia Link
🌿 I'm looking for more interesting guests to talk about European herbalism and foraging in Europe. If you know anyone that would be perfect for this podcast, please let me know.
If you want to reach out, you can find me on Instagram @wildplantforager, and on Facebook.
You can also find more about me or contact me through my website www.wildplantforager.com
But please don't hang around online for too long. Go outside, and follow your wild heart 💚
🎼 music by Eva LaRuna
Disclaimer:
The information in the WYLDE podcast has been compiled with the utmost care. We try to keep it as current, complete and accurate as possible, yet no rights can be derived from this podcast episode.
We accept no liability for: direct or indirect damages resulting from possible errors and omissions, the content of linked websites, or the opinions of interviewed guests.
Please take into account that transcripts were automatically created by A.I. and may contain mistakes.
The content of this podcast in no way replaces personal medical advice or treatment by doctors and other medical professionals.
[00:00:33]
Unknown:
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for wildlings just like you. Wildlings who want to transform transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. My name is Liebe Gollle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 02/2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular, but I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together, we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you're ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows welcome to wild
[00:02:13] Unknown:
hello wildling welcome to new episode of wilds the podcast for herbalists and forgers in Europe. And today, I'm thrilled to welcome Rebecca Klopf to the podcast. She's an acclaimed chef from Switzerland known for her innovative approach to sustainable gastronomy and her deep connection to local terroir and nature. Through her works, she combines foraging, farming, and culinary creativity to create dishes that not only tell a story, but also honor the land where they come from. As a passionate advocate for biodiversity and mindful eating, Rebecca's philosophy goes far beyond the plate, inspiring people to rethink their relationship with food and the natural world.
Welcome, Rebecca. Thank you so much for being a guest today.
[00:03:05] Unknown:
Thank you very much that I can be here. That sounds, actually really nice what you just said right now.
[00:03:13] Unknown:
So, Rebecca, can you tell us a little bit more about how your love for forged ingredients started? And also, maybe how your upbringing in Switzerland influenced that passion?
[00:03:26] Unknown:
Yeah. I think, it started when I was a child already because we had no television at home, and I grew up in a very small village, in the mountains. We had about 60 people living in that village and mostly farming around. So we were actually forced to be outside. Our parents just kick us out of the house. And so we had the time to discover everything. And, I was always very interested on plants and flavors and figuring out if it's eatable or not. And I think I took that with with me even when I made the apprenticeship as a as a cook. And, it always was on my side, and I never forgot about it.
So I just felt quite soon, actually, in my career, that I want to go back to that and to go deeper into it.
[00:04:27] Unknown:
All right. And so this was something that started already as a child this interests or did it grow gradually? Or was there like one moment where you said, Hey, this is so valuable? And also what I'm interested in is, word or like any older people around, like adults that you could learn this from? Yeah. This is always like the
[00:04:52] Unknown:
the thing we are hoping to hear. Yeah. That was my grandma. She told me everything, but nope. Actually, even right now when I'm cooking with wild plants or very local stuff, they're not understanding why I'm doing that. Ah, that's interesting. Buy the stuff in the store? Why should we, go and collect and pick it in in the in the in the wild, in the forest, on the fields, because, my grandparents, at least, they grew up with the the point of, wow, we are able now to go and buy something. We don't need to go to foraging anymore. And I think everything about that is like about our grand grandparents already. So we passed already this grandma's lovely phys philosophy.
But I think I just learned a lot from my mom because we had a garden. But about wild plants, I need to say I just learned that when I was an adult person, like, the last few years from a few very specific people, which are really good in that. And I still, I'm still very looking up to them because there is thousands of plants and I know a few. And as more as you know, as more you know, you have no clue about it. Absolutely.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
Yes. And how how easy is to have access to that knowledge? Like, if you really want to learn about wild plants and how you can eat them? Are there very are there a lot of options where you can learn it? Or is this with individuals or in schools? Or how does it work in Switzerland?
[00:06:35] Unknown:
I think it grew quite a bit in the last few years, just like, let's say, since I, I felt it was like going in a very mainstream direction since 2018, more or less here. I made myself self employed in '16. Mhmm. So I just started a bit before. And since then, people are kind of going crazy, definitely, since, like, the whole, situation with the pandemics. But I think it's not that easy to find a lot which is accessible enough for people who start with it. Mhmm. So I had one book with what was named, Espar Wiltflansen. And that was, for me, super easy because you saw the plant, you saw where, more or less, you can find her, which parts you eat in which, part of the year. And so I I say to me, every year, I want to learn two or three new ones. And then I want also to learn how to to make something nice with them because just harvesting them and eating them, but not being very happy about it.
I think it don't really makes people happy and they would just forget about it again because it's not something what is, like, me feeling you better. So I started also to figure out how can I make something nice on the plate? What is what is tasty? What is great to eat? And so I just went further and further in the last ten years.
[00:08:16] Unknown:
I think that's a really interesting and really good approach, because I see this with my students all the time. They they say to me, Hey, I want to have all the knowledge that you have. And they want it, like, really fast. But for me, it took me almost twenty five years to come where I am now. So they just have to start with and even if it's just like a very common plant, like stinging nettles that they can identify in the dark, that they just have to figure out how many options there are with just this one plant. Yeah. Yes, I think the slow learning when it comes to foraging is really a very, very good approach.
[00:08:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And it helps a lot to go deeper because, I even made a few workshops because people were asking me so much. Even when I thought I really know nothing, but when I made the workshop, the people were like already overloaded and they were like, oh, shit. Now you need to make a break. I don't even remember at the first one you told me. Yes. And then I mean, for sure, I give them a handout, but I think it's it's better to just teach them, like, five Mhmm. And then let them know. So now it's on you to go every year and discover a few new ones. So it really goes inside of you, and you start to stick to that and to remember to that and also to have the pleasure to learn a new thing and to figure out a new thing and not being all the time like, oh, shit.
It's so much. And even if you start to learn something about families of the plants, then it goes even in, like, in yeah. You can go insane.
[00:09:57] Unknown:
Yes. It can be very overwhelming. So I absolutely agree. Just take it one plant at a time and build it up. And then it's really knowledge that is part of who you are, it really becomes part of your inner being. And it will not go away that soon, you know, it's it's really inside of you. And it's really something you can rely on for the rest of your life. And I think that is essential when it comes to wild plant knowledge. Yes. Yeah. And I think I mean, as you say, you are like since twenty five years on that. And I mean,
[00:10:30] Unknown:
if you want to be a biologist, then go for it. But if you just want to cook sometimes something at home and you want to figure out something, then even when you know 20 different plants from sting nettles to guttereinrich, I don't know the names in English, but there is you you can make so many different things with that already, and you don't need to to go too far. So it makes much more pleasure to just, walk a little bit and to see already, like, five to six different plants, which are, like, also tasty. Because there is many, they're like, well, you can eat it, but there's no joy.
[00:11:09] Unknown:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yes. And on the the other hand, I see that a lot of people are surprised because there are so many wild spices that they have never heard
[00:11:20] Unknown:
of. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we really cook with the products we are having around us. So no pepper in our kitchen, no cinnamon, no nothing what is from far away. So only products from from our area. And they always ask me, but what are you doing without pepper? And I was like, are you really only cooking with pepper in your kitchen? That's super boring. And so we we say, sure. We are not cooking since ten years with pepper. We don't need it. No chocolate, no coffee. There is so much different things to figure out. And I also think to say no to this is saying yes to many other things. Mhmm. And people always think, but you are like, are you not missing that? No. Actually, we are not. Because you figure out, thanks to that, so many flavors like, cumin, the wild cumin, which is, like, much better than the one you can can buy anywhere.
Or juniper, even, like, the greens of the juniper or when the juniper itself is green, the berries, they have like, such a fresh flavor, are also like everything from the trees in the forest. However, there's tons.
[00:12:39] Unknown:
Yes. And it always baffles me how how people think that it's the norm to know all of the spices that come from others on the other side of the world. But the local spices are just unknown. And I think why? Why? How did this happen?
[00:12:58] Unknown:
I really don't know. That's interesting, too. It's also like we have one thing. It's like from the spruce, the and from the large, we have, the very outside skin, how you call it again? Yes. Like the outer bark? Yeah. So we dry it in the sun. We put it in water. We dry it again in the sun. Then we put it in the water again. So it's kind of a fermentation. And then if you grind it very thin, it's like a little bit like cinnamon or spikalatius. And people are like, hey, you're giving me this to eat, but this is no food. And then you're like, yeah. Well, but you are eating cinnamon too. Right. It's really the same. Yes. And then they start to think exactly as you say, like, we we don't know about spices and flavors which you can generate around our area. But we know exactly that we have, like, Madagascar vanilla or Tahiti vanilla, but they don't know what not even the names of the trees, which have nice flavors.
[00:14:00] Unknown:
Yes. What I'm wondering, how does the rest of the culinary world look at what you are doing? How how is their reaction?
[00:14:09] Unknown:
That's very difficult to say because I'm not really fitting into the culinary world as we know it because we are not a regular restaurant. We are open only when we have our events, so the people can just come when they have a reservation. Mhmm. We are not serving gourmet, menu, or fine dining. So we just give it a new name, which is like eat perception. Because I want that the people think about what they are eating. So I include it with stories. So it's more like an art installation. Wow. And not the regular kind of of gastronomy.
And that's why I'm not that sure if if they look at us as a as a gastronomy point and also not as, we are not playing in the in the regular games. Mhmm. Mhmm. Like, no rankings, no whatever. Because I think we are not fitting in it anyway. So we don't even start to go with that. So that's why I'm I'm like an in betweener. I'm not a real gastronomy person, and I'm not, artist, or like, someone who makes art in this in this way. It's just something what we made a new draw, let's say. So that's why we need to make competition.
[00:15:37] Unknown:
Out out of the box. It's great, I think. And we should have more people like that. I really yes. I'm I'm really supportive of that. Absolutely.
[00:15:47] Unknown:
Cool. Thank you.
[00:15:49] Unknown:
So, yeah, I'm also wondering, like, coming back to the foraging, how how common is it today to still do it? Or you said before it became like a booming thing. But like, if we look at the average population, in percentages, how many people do you think actually do it?
[00:16:15] Unknown:
Not many. All right. I think it was for a while nice also during corona. But then the people start to forget about it because they have a very busy day. Like, every day is packed with stuff. And you need to have a certain amount of knowledge and interest on it. But still, the people like to come to us to eat like this or to other restaurants which do it which do it already. And there is a few restaurants since the last few years which started with it too. A few are doing it because it's prestige, and a few are doing it because they really feel it. Yes. Doesn't matter why you do it. I think it's nice that people start to think about it because then you can reach more and more people to just, let them know, well, we have very nice local products.
Yes. And also, like, for us, also, there's not only the the wild surrounding important, also the the farmers, the pro the local producers Mhmm. Which are very much in our focus. And I think also there, it's so nice to see that they are like, oh, well, there is more people interested on that, so I can just start to farm this because I know I can sell it. So I think the biodiversity, even in in in the whole thing of, farming, is getting bigger. And then there is more diversity around. I mean, when I started ten years ago, I figured out so many new products because they see people are interested on it. And I think this is this is the big point.
[00:17:58] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. That's a nice evolution. Yes. Yes. And what I'm also wondering is, is there in Switzerland, like, a huge difference difference between, urban settings and and, regions more at the countryside when it comes to foraging? Like, sometimes I feel that especially people in urban settings here in Belgium, really want to go foraging because, yeah, it's like this strange kind of contradiction, I think. I see a lot of people living in the countryside, and they have, like, a garden that is, like like, just, you know, a lawn that is just very well kept and is totally no wild plants. And then some gardens in the cities, and they're very wild. And I think it's just because of the urban settings that people are yearning for this wildness. So Absolutely.
[00:18:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I think if you're living in a countryside, you have the wildness around you. Mhmm. So you are more into saying, well, but I want a peace which I can control. Yes. And in the city, everything is controlled. So you need a piece of wildness around you. I think this is a big point. And also, like, the education is even when people make the same school, it's different in urban, regions than in in the countryside. And I mean, we have our guests are mostly from urban region. They're not from the countryside. Mhmm.
And also, like the people who really understand what we do and why we do it, they're from the urban region and not from the countryside. Even my grandmother is saying, Ma, what are you doing here? You cannot eat this. This is stuff which you pull out. You want to have the carrots, not this. And I'm like, no, I want to have this. And, I think it's also because people on the countryside, they just, yeah, they are surrounded by it. And that's why the the inner impulse is different. Mhmm. Mhmm. But for sure, you have farmers and and producers on the countryside, which are which are very much into it. And I think there is people, like, they are really, really going into foraging.
They mostly also live more on countrysides than really in the city because they cannot handle cities.
[00:20:36] Unknown:
Mostly. Yes. Yes. I will speak for myself, but I have been living in the city for the largest part of my life. And I did I did foraging all the time. Usually, I had a garden. I for a couple of years, I lived without a garden. But I always lived near, you know, a park or wherever I could forage. However, moving to the countryside has so much deepened my relationship with the plants. It's just like a totally different thing because they are everywhere here, and there are are so many more options and they are so much more part of my daily life. However, I think it's important for people because most people still live in cities, right?
So I think it's it's important to have enough options. If you want to go foraging in the city, and I can see in my hometown, the government, local government is actually doing a lot of effort to make green spaces for people to how is that in Switzerland?
[00:21:41] Unknown:
The point is our cities are not that big that you need really to to to have it. So we are I would say we're not not, like, specific very good. But I think we have super small cities which are automatically surrounded by green because, yeah, half an hour and then you are out in the green. I mean, even in Zurich, it's small and but we are not having specific proper parks which are, like, amazing to be in there. So I think people just go out for this house an hour. But I think that the thing in Switzerland is also compared to Belgium that you just have a lot more open green spaces than we have. Totally. Totally. But I must say, like, let's say the city, Basel.
Mhmm. I would say if there is a city going for that, it's definitely Basel. Alright. They're having so much, urban gardening and, like, permaculture gardening in the in the city. So I think there is really something going on. And if you go to Bern, this is a city which is had was always very green already. But it's a very small city. It's about 350,000 people. So and I mean, even Zurich is a small one. So I would say it's it's difficult to say. I think sometimes the cities are maybe greener than several small, villages or villages which are close to a city than the big cities we have. Uh-huh. But I think I can imagine that in, many parts like, aglomeration.
Yes. Like, when you have, like, parts which are growing to the city, these these are mostly not the ones which are properly green. But, also in Switzerland, there is the government is, like, not planting, like, poison, plants anymore like they did before. Now they are just, like, having also, yeah, signs for edible plants or wild plants. But also then you have people, they say, wow, look there. It's just they're doing nothing. It looks like like everywhere in nature. They're not even putting only flowers. I mean, they want to put something what is growing in nature to bring this feeling inside, but many people don't understand it. So they're like saying, the government, the city, they're not doing well.
But, actually, they mean it in a good way.
[00:24:12] Unknown:
And then how is the legal framework when it comes to forging? Like, is it allowed? Where is it allowed? What is allowed? When is it allowed?
[00:24:21] Unknown:
Actually, I am very lucky. I have my own land, so I don't have to think about it. I must be honest honest. I have, mostly I'm foraging on my on my land anyway. But also even when I'm somewhere else, the most of time I'm going to ask the people if it's okay that we do that in their field because it's not us. In the forest, I never I never checked it properly because I think there's so less people doing that that it is a problem. It's not like with mushroom. Mushrooms are in certain moments not allowed to go, and and harvest them. Mhmm. And also in certain areas, you're not allowed at all to to take them. But there is no law for cranberries in the in the forest or for, blueberries, which you can always go.
If the farmer who owns the land is not complaining about that you're destroying everything, there is nothing happening. Is it forbidden? Yes. The Belgium and forests,
[00:25:36] Unknown:
well, at least in Flanders, the part where I live, it's always forbidden to pick anything in forests. But we are the region in the whole of Europe with the the fewest forest area. So I can understand. Okay. Yes. That makes sense. So and mushrooms, in our part of the country is never allowed to pick except in your own garden. But, yeah, it's never allowed. But there are some public spaces like parks where it is allowed depending on where you live. Of course, there is a whole list of of protected plants that you can never pick, which is, I think, very obvious that you don't pick them. Yes. And I think uprooting of plants is, of course, something different. Like, if you want to harvest a root of a plant, that's different than harvesting leaves or seeds or Yes. Flowers, of course. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. That's totally different. Just common sense.
Yeah.
[00:26:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. No. I don't think I didn't I never checked it, like, really? But I never heard about that it is illegal to to harvest something. I mean, for sure, it's not legal to just take a tree. But it's I mean, if you no. We never I never had that. That you are not allowed to even pick, like, the spruce or something like that. We just learned when we were children that it's not good for the tree to take too much. So I'm if I go harvesting anywhere something, I take maximum a third because the plant needs to to grow and to live.
[00:27:22] Unknown:
Yes. So, wow. This was something you learned as a child in school? Yeah. Or No. At home. At home? Okay. Wow.
[00:27:32] Unknown:
Very nice. Maybe even, like, in kindergarten or maybe yeah. I I think it was just normal to be careful with nature because we have a lot of farming here. And, I think that's why we are working so much and, like, dependent that nature is, strong and healthy. Yeah. They teach us to be careful.
[00:27:57] Unknown:
Yeah, I think this is about Yeah, this is the catch 22 about nature conservation in Belgium. I think that they they want to remove humans from the natural areas, which I can understand because we're very densely populated. So we can just visit there as tourists as walkers in the forest on the paths. And I can totally understand their vision because there are so few forests. But on the other hand, by doing this, nature becomes something very casual, like like, I don't know. Like Let's go to the zoo. Like a zoo or a museum or or, you know, a a a serenity. Let's go and look at you. And it becomes less, like, essential, like, you know, your your, supply of of food and of medicine. And and, yeah, it it just becomes very casual. And I think there's also a downside, about this approach.
[00:28:54] Unknown:
It feels like you're you if you go, it's like consuming something. Like, yeah, let's go to the restaurant. Let's go to the zoo. Let's go to the museum. And it's not something naturally anymore because, I mean yeah. I as you say, I can really understand, and probably it's a necessary thing to do it. Mhmm. But it just makes people even more, like, disconnected from it. Absolutely.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And this is like a vicious cycle because if they become more disconnected, then they they are not so close to nature, so they will not defend it. They will not, you know, they will think it's less important than it actually is in reality. And that is something that is really a downside, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:45] Unknown:
Oh, crazy. How many people are living in Belgium? Oh, very bad numbers.
[00:29:54] Unknown:
Really? I don't know. I would have to look that up. We're actually in the north part in Flanders where I live. We're really very densely populated. Yeah. Okay. I can totally understand that they're doing this. And I'm not, I also tell my students to please follow the rules. It's even not allowed according to really the strict law even to take a fallen leaf out of the forest or a twig that has fallen off. Oh, woah. Woah. Because you're disturbing, like, the the soil and the microbiome of the soil because it has to feed with a decaying matter. Yeah. And again, I can totally understand, and I will always ask my students to follow these rules.
But I've I think it's also a bit sad on the other side. And I'm glad that sometimes I get to go to other countries where the rules are different, yeah, to experience also something different. So, yes, how is the, the the general botanical so not specifically about foraging, but, like, the general botanical knowledge in Switzerland. Like, do people generally know what a dandelion is or or a stinging nettle is or or or don't they?
[00:31:15] Unknown:
I think like the very regular things they know.
[00:31:19] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:31:20] Unknown:
Like dandelion, sting nettles. Yeah. Then that's probably it. But no. There is a few people they they know quite a lot because they're interested in that too. And there's people I always tell them also, like, this is maybe something what you will also see when you're going for a walk. So it's nice to take that at home. What's the name actually for Gueter Heinrich? It's like the wild spinach?
[00:31:55] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Prava Hendrik, we call it. Yeah. I know.
[00:32:00] Unknown:
We have it a lot here, and it's so tasty and nice. And, I think this is something where people take it home, and they will just see it or like Spitzwegherich. I think there the people are interested on it, but it's it's for sure a bubble. So I'm I'm sure there's many people they have no idea about I mean, they know maybe sting nettles because they think it's not nice.
[00:32:25] Unknown:
Because they sting. Yes. Yeah.
[00:32:28] Unknown:
But they for sure don't know. I mean, they know maybe the flowers of the dandelion, but they have no clue that they can eat it. Mhmm. Or even when I was a child, my my grandparents told me they're poison. Like the the the juice, the white juice which is coming out, it's poison. Or there's so many plants, they call them poison even when they are not.
[00:32:53] Unknown:
Yes. This is why This is to me also something very interesting how how many times we are warned about the natural world. Mhmm. But how many times it's actually true. It's Yeah. Yeah. Especially in our area.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
And also, like, I don't know if you have that sometimes about, Fuchspantworm.
[00:33:15] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. The Fuchs roundworm. Yes. Oh, yes. As soon as you say you're a forager, people are like,
[00:33:23] Unknown:
oh, oh. But you're still alive. Okay.
[00:33:28] Unknown:
But how that's that situation in Switzerland, I wonder. Yeah. I mean, it's nearly never happening.
[00:33:34] Unknown:
But I was mostly I'm asking them, have you been, picking some mushrooms once in your life in the forest? Oh yeah, sure. We go every year. So yeah. Then, I mean, the foxes are living there too. Why are you not thinking about that? And have you ever seen a a a field outside with veggies in there, which is, like, surrounded by a huge fence that no animal can enter? No? Okay. Good. So let's not talk anymore about it. But it's interesting that people are so scared about stuff like this even when when, yeah, when there is many other possibilities. But this foreign genes, like, it's just for,
[00:34:20] Unknown:
for wizards. Yes. It really fascinates me. This fear. Where does it come from? It's yeah. And I also see this with people having difficulties. We are very brainwashed with fixed flavors, like flavors that that are uniform. We expect the same flavor in Mhmm. A certain dish. Mhmm. And this is the thing when you work with wild plants that sometimes they are a little bit more fruity or a little bit more aromatic or a little bit it's, you know, it's just different because, there may have been a different soil, different amount of hours of sunlight, and this all influences the flavor. And Mhmm. People people often think that by chasing something the first time, they know how a certain berry or Forever.
Yes. But it's not I tell them really, you have to try different times because it may taste differently. Mhmm. And I think that's very interesting how people just expect these homogeneous, flavors
[00:35:35] Unknown:
and also how Most of people grew up with that. Yes. Exactly. All the same all the time.
[00:35:42] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think it's also a little bit about control because I remember, Yeah. I I did, like, this project and it was in a restaurant and I was, with a colleague, Figueroaerteschhoert, and we were actually cooking with wild plants for for a a large area a large, audience. And, so we were also working with local flavors, local vegetable, local wild plants. And what was interesting is, like, it started with the first course. Like, we were, giving people a drink, and it was a drink that I made based on the seeds of the the hogweed. Yes. Not a giant one, but a Yes. The regular one. Mhmm.
Very nice. I gave people a glass with this drink. I didn't say anything. And I said, just try to to taste it, have all the flavors in your mouth. And they said, yeah. But what is it? What is it? I want to know what I'm drinking. And I said, we will talk about this later. First, I want you to taste. Their tasting. And I said things like, oh, there's pineapple in it. There's definitely pineapple in it. And I said, no. Oh, but then there is and they were putting they were telling all kinds of exotic flavors. And I thought, no, this is just a flavor of nobody had ever hear heard of these hogweed seeds. And it was so interesting Oh, funny. To see how people were just because I think if you know already what's in a dish, you have certain expectations and certain, Yeah. And it's so interesting when people really start to taste their food, I think. Mhmm.
[00:37:21] Unknown:
Mhmm. And they really need I mean, we always tell the people what they're eating, because kind of we need to. Mhmm. But, yeah, I can really, I can really understand. I think it would be nice to have more possibilities to make experiments like that. But then you need to have the agreement of every person normally. Of course. If you do that regularly, if you do it once, it's something else. But, I think it's they would have it differently in mind and also, like, have different flavors when they don't know it. Mhmm. I had once a dish, a dessert with blood.
Because in early times, people they they hadn't the money to to buy eggs because they were so expensive. So they used blood to make cakes or stuff. So Really? And also some biscuits and everything. And I needed to tell the people because we made the ice cream with some roasted, buckwheat with kochi and, lupinin and some blood. So it was kind of a very creamy it was like a mix between coffee and chocolate, like, from the flavors. But because that we needed to tell this to the people, they were like, oh. But they would never figured out that it was blood if we didn't told them. So I think it's it could be super nice to just have it more with flavors from here to let them guess what it could be or what it is for flavors. So they are putting that in their minds that they will remember to that next time and say, I had something very nice. It smelled like chocolate, but it wasn't. So let's try to do it in the new way.
[00:39:05] Unknown:
Yes. It's very interesting to see also for me how you can have really exotic flavors in very local ingredients. Mhmm. Like this pineapple weed who that really tastes like pineapple or Taguetis,
[00:39:19] Unknown:
which is crazy.
[00:39:21] Unknown:
Yes. That is totally crazy. There is so much flavor in that. Yes. Yeah.
[00:39:27] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mean, for us, we are talking in the new in the flavors we know now. We are saying, oh, that smells a bit like sychorje. That smells like tagetes. That smells like, and so on. But if you if you are not having that in your hands, for sure, you go with the flavors, you know. But that's why I'm saying it would be nice to just adapt it. Like Mhmm. Also like girsh. Girsh. Girsh in English. It smells very like, celery. Like the Yes. Celery. Ground elder. Bergenau. Ground elder. And people are so surprised when you just, like, say, well, there's there is no celery celery you can eat. It's just this, and there's also no parsley in it. It's, like, so flavorful about, like, from this.
And I think people are like keeping that in their minds like that. Mhmm. Mhmm. But it's a slowly a slow process as it is with us. And we are doing that, like, so many time, every day, every, I mean, the whole year long, it is some somehow around us. And for these people, it's probably five times a year. In our best case. Yeah. Yeah. But still, it's nice. And I think they're really interested on knowing at least something they're super proud when they say I know, I know this. I know this plant.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
So you were talking about ground elder, but what is what is a plant that really, really surprised you and that really transformed a dish that you were making?
[00:41:05] Unknown:
I I mean, there are many. The Wiesenberenklaue, for sure. The one you you Giant hogweed. Yes. Jager now. The seeds, amazing. Also, like, tagetes, which I figured out a few years ago, which are like, oh, it's so much like, passion fruit if you do it very easy. Like, not too much. Just like infusing it somewhere. Fig leaves, which are like coconut. We made Yes. Ice cream with amasake, so with kochi Oh. And fig leaves, and it was like pina colada. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I think this is really funny and also really nice. My favorite is still the wild cumin.
The leaves of our blueberries, when they are dried in the sun, they have a little bit green tea flavor Oh, wow. Which is also very nice. Oh, let me think. It's always so hard to remember when when it's winter because then you are in a totally different flavor mind. Yeah. Also, like, the the the heads of the Spitzwegerich.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Yes. The plantain.
[00:42:27] Unknown:
Yes. Kinau. They're like mushrooms if you grill them.
[00:42:32] Unknown:
Yes. They are so nice. Yes.
[00:42:34] Unknown:
And I think it's, like, so funny to figure out new things. And I mean, it's just, like, going in so many directions. And also, like, we tried to make kimchi or, like, just infusing them or lack of fermentation. And a few things came out very well, and a few things were absolutely disgusting. But I think it's funny to figure out and to to to also looking forward to the time that it is growing again. So you're going there and you're checking. Is it ready? No. It's not. So you go one week later, and then you are like, yeah. Now it's perfect. Oh, the Knutrich. I really love the Knutrich. Yes.
[00:43:21] Unknown:
Yes. The knotweed. The Japanese knotweed. Yeah. Exactly. He's really,
[00:43:26] Unknown:
yeah, like, how to say, neophyte. Mhmm. So it's not very it's not growing here, but in the in the South Of Switzerland. Okay. And I really love it because it's like a very nice acidity, like rhubarb with without this stuff on your tongue at the end, what you have from the oxal soirem. Yes. So it's really nice to work with that. Or also very, very nice is sour amfel. I only know the names in German.
[00:44:01] Unknown:
Sorrel. It's okay. I can try the state for you. Sorrel. Yes. The sorrel.
[00:44:05] Unknown:
When you just juice it, it's super nice. We're making sorbet. Very fresh. But also to have it for we made a vinaigrette with it. Like, instead of, juice, like, or also like lemon juice, we just use this, which is super, super nice. So you can also go with less vinegar, And it's so fresh and, like, green, but like a citrus green. So, yeah, I really like it. Or I also like the spruce or the the coins from the from the spruce. We made, some drinks with that. So non non alcoholics because we always, figure out something nice also for people who don't, drink alcohol. And I think there's, like, millions of flavors.
[00:45:01] Unknown:
There are. There are so many flavors that even me have no idea that they exist Mhmm. And that I'm still to discover, which is so exciting.
[00:45:12] Unknown:
Yeah, it's very cool. And I think it's just in the area where people think there's not growing that much. I mean, if you go to a country which is more like, close to to the Equator. You have like, huge forest with a lot of fruits which are growing. But I think also here you have so many flavors to discover.
[00:45:35] Unknown:
Yes. And I think in Switzerland also you have you have the altitude. So with different climate zones, I think. So you have different flora there probably.
[00:45:45] Unknown:
Yeah. It's super nice because when we have our menus, we always start in the valley, on one point, and then we can go up and then we can have it very much longer because we are going with the altitude. So we have it very long, the same thing on our menu because we just can every week we go a little bit higher because it's growing there.
[00:46:07] Unknown:
Oh, so you can like climb through the seasons.
[00:46:11] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:46:12] Unknown:
Wow. That's such an interesting factor.
[00:46:15] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really cool. And also if people say, oh, I just missed the elder flower flowers. And then we are, oh, that's very good. Let's have a look. And then you see, oh, yeah. There's still nothing. So we still have the time to organize. And I think we have it with many things because we are on 1,600 meters. So we have, quite a bit of more time to figure out.
[00:46:39] Unknown:
That is very fascinating.
[00:46:42] Unknown:
I would love to have that option. We are never too late, let's say, like this. I mean, for sure not everything is growing up here. Even a few things are only growing up here. So it's really nice to have this movement also.
[00:46:56] Unknown:
So being in Switzerland definitely has some special options. But I'm also wondering, like, what are the the challenges? Like, do you see the impact of climate change and on the flora? Or is there like pressure of tourism in certain areas? Or do you see the loss of traditional knowledge as a challenge? Or what challenges are you facing?
[00:47:21] Unknown:
I think all the tree. You said I think it's everywhere a bit the same. I would say with the heat, we are still quite good here because of we have a very good micro climate in the mountains
[00:47:37] Unknown:
still. Alright.
[00:47:39] Unknown:
And it's until now, it's it'll it seems to be quite, healthy, everything. We had a a good summer. We had enough rain, but also enough sun. It was a nice autumn, but also there is a bit of snow. For sure, there is less snow than when I was a child, but it seems not to be catastrophic right now. Here, for sure, it looks different on other places. But still, I think the plants are changing a bit. They also realize there is something going on with, temperature and heat and dryness because sometimes the the time that it stays dry or wet is longer Mhmm. Than before.
Mhmm. So maybe we will end up in only two seasons, also in monsoon and dry season. Yes. Who knows? Yeah. But also the tourism, for sure, there's more and more people, walking around. But still, we are right here in the area where it's still, like, okay. And we have good institutions like Natur Park, Natural Park, like, they're looking to that. They are giving, like, people also, like, I think it's always something about education. So they educate people. Well, you cannot just walk everywhere. You need to be careful. There is animals living in it. And, on several seasons you shouldn't walk through. So, yeah, I think that makes a lot that people are more consciousness to to walk around. For sure, not all. But I think in general, you could say people are quite aware what they are doing and and how they should do it. And there's not many people throwing stuff somewhere on the floor.
So they're quite aware about that they are just destroying nature if they act like that. And I think what is the biggest problem is, like, for sure that we that our society is more and more feeling separated from nature. As you say, you are you are like going and visiting a park even when it's just something what should be normal to just walk in and enjoy it and not feeling like you are going to a national park, but it's just it's just a forest next to your house. And I think this is, like, a point that makes people Yeah, just going more and more far away, but also to that more people are thinking about to going in another direction. So to to inform to get education about it.
So I think there's also like the people are going in the other direction, too. I mean, even that we both are talking right now, means something. Yes. And people are interested on that. So otherwise, you couldn't make your your, podcasts. And I couldn't make my my my philosophy with my foods because if we would stay in the in the times where they sell well only caviar and, lobster and Saint Jacques is nice. And I will pay this price only for that because we have a a high level price. Yes. But we need to have it because furnishing is it's a lot of time you're spending for that. Yes. And I want to pay my people, like like, good. I don't want to give them a shit, salary.
Mhmm. So we need to have, like, the price they're also having for caviar and all this stuff, which we don't have on our menu. But we have a lot of, things you probably never eat before. Yes. But but definitely not like that. So I think this makes it special. And I think there is enough people that are interested on it. And I really think there's more and more people going in that direction, which is nice. Mhmm.
[00:51:54] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I think it's interesting to see also how people it's hard to put words to this, but how people transform there is some kind of emotional transformation, I think, when they taste wild plants or when they go out and pick them themselves. Oh, yeah. That's It's hard to describe really what happens there, but you you see it too, I think.
[00:52:20] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really nice. I mean, there's like a kind of proudness and connection and, throwback to childhood, like, to early times. And it's a really nice mix. Even, like, I mean, when people harvest it by themselves, it's anyway, like, they they're, like, proud us. Like, wow, look. I made that by myself. I find it in the forest. And I think this is really nice. And I think most people who do that, they are very, very aware and very careful. And I also got sometimes the question, but well, what are you doing if so if everyone is going to foraging? I was like, this will never happen. Because people have no time for that. And they also will not take the time for that because you are just like floated by hundred of things to do. So you need to kind of do it really in your life. And you have not many people who do that because it's a hard job.
[00:53:23] Unknown:
Yes, I think it's it's on an individual level. It's such a beautiful thing to do to slow down and be mindful about what you're eating. And it's also such a pure thing. There is just the plant and you and the here and the now and you pick it and you eat it and there's nothing else. It's just this pure direct relationship that you have. And I think that is the opposite of what what happens in the whole industry.
[00:53:52] Unknown:
Absolutely. About food. It's the yeah. It's the absolute opposite. Yeah. It's the it's the point inside of the yin yang, like the other side. Yes. It's like the antidote, you know? Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:06] Unknown:
So, how do you see the practice of foraging in Switzerland evolving over, like, the next ten, twenty, fifty years?
[00:54:19] Unknown:
I think it will grow, like, the amount of people who do it. Especially, I think, in gastronomy, there is movement going on. There is more and more, chefs and and restaurants, which are interested on doing that. There's more and more people interested on buying this concept in and going there to eat. But I think in a very in a very good way, like, in a healthy way. Not that, like, too many people will just go out and foraging. I think it's more like it's it will stay something very specific, but it will just, like, be more into, the everyday talk than it has been the last hundred years.
So I think it's a good a good amount of people will do it, but with a certain amount of perception. Not just like so I think it's nice. And I I'm pretty sure that, that gastronomy is also has the chance to go in that direction. If they really do it, we don't know. I think it depends also a lot about what is surrounding us in the next ten twenty fifty years. If we have, I mean, doing this means also to have, like, a very stable government around us. If you don't have it, you're not sinking in the first moment to this. You're just, yeah, acting different. And I think it's also a kind of, yeah, in this moment when you when we are talking about gastronomy, it's more about, art piece to say, well, we are going outside and creating something nice, a nice dish with this.
And I think if you are more with, with people, like private, it's also like, well, we have the possibility to do it in our free time. But if you have no security in your life, you are, like, just going in different directions because you need to work more to just drive your daily life. So I think it really depends also on that. But in the very best case, people will be more aware for nature in the next years.
[00:56:44] Unknown:
And how how are your personal dreams about the restaurant? Where do you think What do you think will happen? What are your dreams? What are your
[00:56:59] Unknown:
we are for sure, sooner than later on a point where I need to say, well, I'm doing this now since ten years. Mhmm. What is the next step? Because there's more and more people doing the same thing as as we are doing. So there is, the people which are interested on it, they will not only come to us, they also go to other places which have the same con or similar concept, which is really great, but then I need to, evolve. And also the place here, it's on the farm. It's not a proper restaurant. It's just like the old workshop of my dad. And we are doing this in in, like, provisorium.
It's not a real place to be. So I think if I could wish, I would wish, to have a proper kitchen with a really nice cooking station with wood and having, like, a place which is like we that we have enough space to put out all our jars. Because right now everything is everywhere a little bit. So I see I know the jar problem. Yes. Yeah. It's like they're just, everywhere. If I would go on with, cooking in in in a place, I would I would wish myself to have a a proper space. And otherwise, I think it will be also very interesting to just go a little bit more into education also for young humans, in schools or in in, places where they have, like, the possibility to teach them something about that.
[00:58:42] Unknown:
Alright. Beautiful. Let's see. I have one last question for you. Because I have been in Switzerland when I was, I think when I was about 14 years old. So quite quite a time ago.
[00:58:57] Unknown:
It's time to come again.
[00:58:59] Unknown:
And I remember the wildlife there, the wild animals. And I was wondering if you ever had an encounter with a wild animal while you were picking plants.
[00:59:11] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Sure. I mean, we when we drive up here to to our, village, we always say we make the the safari. Especially in the night, you make a safari because there's so many animals, going around. And yeah. Sure. I mean, while, picking, sometimes you see a deer or, like, foxes or, rabbits, squirrels. And it's so funny to just, like when you realize they are there, then you are just, like, not moving? They're not moving? And then maybe you move a little bit to have a looks in in in their direction, and then sometimes they look also a little bit closer. So it's,
[00:59:59] Unknown:
it's very funny.
[01:00:01] Unknown:
It's very cute. I I think it's very nice to, it feels like you're more more and more I mean, closer and closer with nature because there is something moving directly. I mean, a mushroom and also the plants are moving, but slowly. And an animal is just moving faster. So if the animal sees you, and it's staying there, it's a very nice moment of connection. Yes. It's like a breathtaking moment also. Yeah, get out. Like Yeah.
[01:00:34] Unknown:
Yeah. It's very That never happens in the supermarket. No. Definitely not. Yeah. And they're so beautiful.
[01:00:39] Unknown:
Not. Yeah. And they're so beautiful.
[01:00:44] Unknown:
Yes. It's true. Yeah. So, Rebecca, thank you so much for this very interesting conversation. If people want to find out more about your work or want to come to you to have some wonderful food, where can they find more information?
[01:01:01] Unknown:
So the best is to go on our website. And if you have the newsletter, you always get information in German. But I think nowadays, it's not so hard to make to translate it. But also, we are on Instagram, and there you also see what's going on or LinkedIn, however. So we are everywhere a bit silly. But I think the most informations you will find in in our website. And there you can read a little bit more about our philosophy, and we also have, like, different pictures. It's always good to see pictures because our brain is mostly working with our eyes. So
[01:01:44] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And what what is the website exactly?
[01:01:48] Unknown:
It's just the Rebecca minus Klobberpunktzeha.
[01:01:53] Unknown:
Okay. Thank you so much. And thank you, Wildy, for listening to this episode. Hope to see you for the next one. And in the meantime, keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye bye.
[01:02:09] Unknown:
A warm thank you for listening, Wildy. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com, and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Welcome to Wild, the podcast for wildlings just like you. Wildlings who want to transform transform the prevalent plant blindness to collective plant wisdom. My name is Liebe Gollle. I've been working as a herbalist and wild plant forager in Belgium since 02/2002. In those years, I've seen a lot of changes. Working with plants has become more popular, but I've also seen time is running out for our planet. As foragers and herbalists in Europe, sometimes we're dealing with different plant species and different cultural approaches towards plants. In some countries, working with plants is licensed, and in others, it's almost illegal.
I believe that together, we can learn from one another and be stronger. There is nothing more empowering than connecting wild souls. Together, we can have a greater impact on restoring the ancient link between people and plants. And that's why for this podcast series, I'm talking to fellow herbalists and foragers in Europe. So if you're ready to find out what you've never been told, but what your soul already knows welcome to wild
[00:02:13] Unknown:
hello wildling welcome to new episode of wilds the podcast for herbalists and forgers in Europe. And today, I'm thrilled to welcome Rebecca Klopf to the podcast. She's an acclaimed chef from Switzerland known for her innovative approach to sustainable gastronomy and her deep connection to local terroir and nature. Through her works, she combines foraging, farming, and culinary creativity to create dishes that not only tell a story, but also honor the land where they come from. As a passionate advocate for biodiversity and mindful eating, Rebecca's philosophy goes far beyond the plate, inspiring people to rethink their relationship with food and the natural world.
Welcome, Rebecca. Thank you so much for being a guest today.
[00:03:05] Unknown:
Thank you very much that I can be here. That sounds, actually really nice what you just said right now.
[00:03:13] Unknown:
So, Rebecca, can you tell us a little bit more about how your love for forged ingredients started? And also, maybe how your upbringing in Switzerland influenced that passion?
[00:03:26] Unknown:
Yeah. I think, it started when I was a child already because we had no television at home, and I grew up in a very small village, in the mountains. We had about 60 people living in that village and mostly farming around. So we were actually forced to be outside. Our parents just kick us out of the house. And so we had the time to discover everything. And, I was always very interested on plants and flavors and figuring out if it's eatable or not. And I think I took that with with me even when I made the apprenticeship as a as a cook. And, it always was on my side, and I never forgot about it.
So I just felt quite soon, actually, in my career, that I want to go back to that and to go deeper into it.
[00:04:27] Unknown:
All right. And so this was something that started already as a child this interests or did it grow gradually? Or was there like one moment where you said, Hey, this is so valuable? And also what I'm interested in is, word or like any older people around, like adults that you could learn this from? Yeah. This is always like the
[00:04:52] Unknown:
the thing we are hoping to hear. Yeah. That was my grandma. She told me everything, but nope. Actually, even right now when I'm cooking with wild plants or very local stuff, they're not understanding why I'm doing that. Ah, that's interesting. Buy the stuff in the store? Why should we, go and collect and pick it in in the in the in the wild, in the forest, on the fields, because, my grandparents, at least, they grew up with the the point of, wow, we are able now to go and buy something. We don't need to go to foraging anymore. And I think everything about that is like about our grand grandparents already. So we passed already this grandma's lovely phys philosophy.
But I think I just learned a lot from my mom because we had a garden. But about wild plants, I need to say I just learned that when I was an adult person, like, the last few years from a few very specific people, which are really good in that. And I still, I'm still very looking up to them because there is thousands of plants and I know a few. And as more as you know, as more you know, you have no clue about it. Absolutely.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
Yes. And how how easy is to have access to that knowledge? Like, if you really want to learn about wild plants and how you can eat them? Are there very are there a lot of options where you can learn it? Or is this with individuals or in schools? Or how does it work in Switzerland?
[00:06:35] Unknown:
I think it grew quite a bit in the last few years, just like, let's say, since I, I felt it was like going in a very mainstream direction since 2018, more or less here. I made myself self employed in '16. Mhmm. So I just started a bit before. And since then, people are kind of going crazy, definitely, since, like, the whole, situation with the pandemics. But I think it's not that easy to find a lot which is accessible enough for people who start with it. Mhmm. So I had one book with what was named, Espar Wiltflansen. And that was, for me, super easy because you saw the plant, you saw where, more or less, you can find her, which parts you eat in which, part of the year. And so I I say to me, every year, I want to learn two or three new ones. And then I want also to learn how to to make something nice with them because just harvesting them and eating them, but not being very happy about it.
I think it don't really makes people happy and they would just forget about it again because it's not something what is, like, me feeling you better. So I started also to figure out how can I make something nice on the plate? What is what is tasty? What is great to eat? And so I just went further and further in the last ten years.
[00:08:16] Unknown:
I think that's a really interesting and really good approach, because I see this with my students all the time. They they say to me, Hey, I want to have all the knowledge that you have. And they want it, like, really fast. But for me, it took me almost twenty five years to come where I am now. So they just have to start with and even if it's just like a very common plant, like stinging nettles that they can identify in the dark, that they just have to figure out how many options there are with just this one plant. Yeah. Yes, I think the slow learning when it comes to foraging is really a very, very good approach.
[00:08:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And it helps a lot to go deeper because, I even made a few workshops because people were asking me so much. Even when I thought I really know nothing, but when I made the workshop, the people were like already overloaded and they were like, oh, shit. Now you need to make a break. I don't even remember at the first one you told me. Yes. And then I mean, for sure, I give them a handout, but I think it's it's better to just teach them, like, five Mhmm. And then let them know. So now it's on you to go every year and discover a few new ones. So it really goes inside of you, and you start to stick to that and to remember to that and also to have the pleasure to learn a new thing and to figure out a new thing and not being all the time like, oh, shit.
It's so much. And even if you start to learn something about families of the plants, then it goes even in, like, in yeah. You can go insane.
[00:09:57] Unknown:
Yes. It can be very overwhelming. So I absolutely agree. Just take it one plant at a time and build it up. And then it's really knowledge that is part of who you are, it really becomes part of your inner being. And it will not go away that soon, you know, it's it's really inside of you. And it's really something you can rely on for the rest of your life. And I think that is essential when it comes to wild plant knowledge. Yes. Yeah. And I think I mean, as you say, you are like since twenty five years on that. And I mean,
[00:10:30] Unknown:
if you want to be a biologist, then go for it. But if you just want to cook sometimes something at home and you want to figure out something, then even when you know 20 different plants from sting nettles to guttereinrich, I don't know the names in English, but there is you you can make so many different things with that already, and you don't need to to go too far. So it makes much more pleasure to just, walk a little bit and to see already, like, five to six different plants, which are, like, also tasty. Because there is many, they're like, well, you can eat it, but there's no joy.
[00:11:09] Unknown:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yes. And on the the other hand, I see that a lot of people are surprised because there are so many wild spices that they have never heard
[00:11:20] Unknown:
of. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we really cook with the products we are having around us. So no pepper in our kitchen, no cinnamon, no nothing what is from far away. So only products from from our area. And they always ask me, but what are you doing without pepper? And I was like, are you really only cooking with pepper in your kitchen? That's super boring. And so we we say, sure. We are not cooking since ten years with pepper. We don't need it. No chocolate, no coffee. There is so much different things to figure out. And I also think to say no to this is saying yes to many other things. Mhmm. And people always think, but you are like, are you not missing that? No. Actually, we are not. Because you figure out, thanks to that, so many flavors like, cumin, the wild cumin, which is, like, much better than the one you can can buy anywhere.
Or juniper, even, like, the greens of the juniper or when the juniper itself is green, the berries, they have like, such a fresh flavor, are also like everything from the trees in the forest. However, there's tons.
[00:12:39] Unknown:
Yes. And it always baffles me how how people think that it's the norm to know all of the spices that come from others on the other side of the world. But the local spices are just unknown. And I think why? Why? How did this happen?
[00:12:58] Unknown:
I really don't know. That's interesting, too. It's also like we have one thing. It's like from the spruce, the and from the large, we have, the very outside skin, how you call it again? Yes. Like the outer bark? Yeah. So we dry it in the sun. We put it in water. We dry it again in the sun. Then we put it in the water again. So it's kind of a fermentation. And then if you grind it very thin, it's like a little bit like cinnamon or spikalatius. And people are like, hey, you're giving me this to eat, but this is no food. And then you're like, yeah. Well, but you are eating cinnamon too. Right. It's really the same. Yes. And then they start to think exactly as you say, like, we we don't know about spices and flavors which you can generate around our area. But we know exactly that we have, like, Madagascar vanilla or Tahiti vanilla, but they don't know what not even the names of the trees, which have nice flavors.
[00:14:00] Unknown:
Yes. What I'm wondering, how does the rest of the culinary world look at what you are doing? How how is their reaction?
[00:14:09] Unknown:
That's very difficult to say because I'm not really fitting into the culinary world as we know it because we are not a regular restaurant. We are open only when we have our events, so the people can just come when they have a reservation. Mhmm. We are not serving gourmet, menu, or fine dining. So we just give it a new name, which is like eat perception. Because I want that the people think about what they are eating. So I include it with stories. So it's more like an art installation. Wow. And not the regular kind of of gastronomy.
And that's why I'm not that sure if if they look at us as a as a gastronomy point and also not as, we are not playing in the in the regular games. Mhmm. Mhmm. Like, no rankings, no whatever. Because I think we are not fitting in it anyway. So we don't even start to go with that. So that's why I'm I'm like an in betweener. I'm not a real gastronomy person, and I'm not, artist, or like, someone who makes art in this in this way. It's just something what we made a new draw, let's say. So that's why we need to make competition.
[00:15:37] Unknown:
Out out of the box. It's great, I think. And we should have more people like that. I really yes. I'm I'm really supportive of that. Absolutely.
[00:15:47] Unknown:
Cool. Thank you.
[00:15:49] Unknown:
So, yeah, I'm also wondering, like, coming back to the foraging, how how common is it today to still do it? Or you said before it became like a booming thing. But like, if we look at the average population, in percentages, how many people do you think actually do it?
[00:16:15] Unknown:
Not many. All right. I think it was for a while nice also during corona. But then the people start to forget about it because they have a very busy day. Like, every day is packed with stuff. And you need to have a certain amount of knowledge and interest on it. But still, the people like to come to us to eat like this or to other restaurants which do it which do it already. And there is a few restaurants since the last few years which started with it too. A few are doing it because it's prestige, and a few are doing it because they really feel it. Yes. Doesn't matter why you do it. I think it's nice that people start to think about it because then you can reach more and more people to just, let them know, well, we have very nice local products.
Yes. And also, like, for us, also, there's not only the the wild surrounding important, also the the farmers, the pro the local producers Mhmm. Which are very much in our focus. And I think also there, it's so nice to see that they are like, oh, well, there is more people interested on that, so I can just start to farm this because I know I can sell it. So I think the biodiversity, even in in in the whole thing of, farming, is getting bigger. And then there is more diversity around. I mean, when I started ten years ago, I figured out so many new products because they see people are interested on it. And I think this is this is the big point.
[00:17:58] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. That's a nice evolution. Yes. Yes. And what I'm also wondering is, is there in Switzerland, like, a huge difference difference between, urban settings and and, regions more at the countryside when it comes to foraging? Like, sometimes I feel that especially people in urban settings here in Belgium, really want to go foraging because, yeah, it's like this strange kind of contradiction, I think. I see a lot of people living in the countryside, and they have, like, a garden that is, like like, just, you know, a lawn that is just very well kept and is totally no wild plants. And then some gardens in the cities, and they're very wild. And I think it's just because of the urban settings that people are yearning for this wildness. So Absolutely.
[00:18:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I think if you're living in a countryside, you have the wildness around you. Mhmm. So you are more into saying, well, but I want a peace which I can control. Yes. And in the city, everything is controlled. So you need a piece of wildness around you. I think this is a big point. And also, like, the education is even when people make the same school, it's different in urban, regions than in in the countryside. And I mean, we have our guests are mostly from urban region. They're not from the countryside. Mhmm.
And also, like the people who really understand what we do and why we do it, they're from the urban region and not from the countryside. Even my grandmother is saying, Ma, what are you doing here? You cannot eat this. This is stuff which you pull out. You want to have the carrots, not this. And I'm like, no, I want to have this. And, I think it's also because people on the countryside, they just, yeah, they are surrounded by it. And that's why the the inner impulse is different. Mhmm. Mhmm. But for sure, you have farmers and and producers on the countryside, which are which are very much into it. And I think there is people, like, they are really, really going into foraging.
They mostly also live more on countrysides than really in the city because they cannot handle cities.
[00:20:36] Unknown:
Mostly. Yes. Yes. I will speak for myself, but I have been living in the city for the largest part of my life. And I did I did foraging all the time. Usually, I had a garden. I for a couple of years, I lived without a garden. But I always lived near, you know, a park or wherever I could forage. However, moving to the countryside has so much deepened my relationship with the plants. It's just like a totally different thing because they are everywhere here, and there are are so many more options and they are so much more part of my daily life. However, I think it's important for people because most people still live in cities, right?
So I think it's it's important to have enough options. If you want to go foraging in the city, and I can see in my hometown, the government, local government is actually doing a lot of effort to make green spaces for people to how is that in Switzerland?
[00:21:41] Unknown:
The point is our cities are not that big that you need really to to to have it. So we are I would say we're not not, like, specific very good. But I think we have super small cities which are automatically surrounded by green because, yeah, half an hour and then you are out in the green. I mean, even in Zurich, it's small and but we are not having specific proper parks which are, like, amazing to be in there. So I think people just go out for this house an hour. But I think that the thing in Switzerland is also compared to Belgium that you just have a lot more open green spaces than we have. Totally. Totally. But I must say, like, let's say the city, Basel.
Mhmm. I would say if there is a city going for that, it's definitely Basel. Alright. They're having so much, urban gardening and, like, permaculture gardening in the in the city. So I think there is really something going on. And if you go to Bern, this is a city which is had was always very green already. But it's a very small city. It's about 350,000 people. So and I mean, even Zurich is a small one. So I would say it's it's difficult to say. I think sometimes the cities are maybe greener than several small, villages or villages which are close to a city than the big cities we have. Uh-huh. But I think I can imagine that in, many parts like, aglomeration.
Yes. Like, when you have, like, parts which are growing to the city, these these are mostly not the ones which are properly green. But, also in Switzerland, there is the government is, like, not planting, like, poison, plants anymore like they did before. Now they are just, like, having also, yeah, signs for edible plants or wild plants. But also then you have people, they say, wow, look there. It's just they're doing nothing. It looks like like everywhere in nature. They're not even putting only flowers. I mean, they want to put something what is growing in nature to bring this feeling inside, but many people don't understand it. So they're like saying, the government, the city, they're not doing well.
But, actually, they mean it in a good way.
[00:24:12] Unknown:
And then how is the legal framework when it comes to forging? Like, is it allowed? Where is it allowed? What is allowed? When is it allowed?
[00:24:21] Unknown:
Actually, I am very lucky. I have my own land, so I don't have to think about it. I must be honest honest. I have, mostly I'm foraging on my on my land anyway. But also even when I'm somewhere else, the most of time I'm going to ask the people if it's okay that we do that in their field because it's not us. In the forest, I never I never checked it properly because I think there's so less people doing that that it is a problem. It's not like with mushroom. Mushrooms are in certain moments not allowed to go, and and harvest them. Mhmm. And also in certain areas, you're not allowed at all to to take them. But there is no law for cranberries in the in the forest or for, blueberries, which you can always go.
If the farmer who owns the land is not complaining about that you're destroying everything, there is nothing happening. Is it forbidden? Yes. The Belgium and forests,
[00:25:36] Unknown:
well, at least in Flanders, the part where I live, it's always forbidden to pick anything in forests. But we are the region in the whole of Europe with the the fewest forest area. So I can understand. Okay. Yes. That makes sense. So and mushrooms, in our part of the country is never allowed to pick except in your own garden. But, yeah, it's never allowed. But there are some public spaces like parks where it is allowed depending on where you live. Of course, there is a whole list of of protected plants that you can never pick, which is, I think, very obvious that you don't pick them. Yes. And I think uprooting of plants is, of course, something different. Like, if you want to harvest a root of a plant, that's different than harvesting leaves or seeds or Yes. Flowers, of course. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. That's totally different. Just common sense.
Yeah.
[00:26:38] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. No. I don't think I didn't I never checked it, like, really? But I never heard about that it is illegal to to harvest something. I mean, for sure, it's not legal to just take a tree. But it's I mean, if you no. We never I never had that. That you are not allowed to even pick, like, the spruce or something like that. We just learned when we were children that it's not good for the tree to take too much. So I'm if I go harvesting anywhere something, I take maximum a third because the plant needs to to grow and to live.
[00:27:22] Unknown:
Yes. So, wow. This was something you learned as a child in school? Yeah. Or No. At home. At home? Okay. Wow.
[00:27:32] Unknown:
Very nice. Maybe even, like, in kindergarten or maybe yeah. I I think it was just normal to be careful with nature because we have a lot of farming here. And, I think that's why we are working so much and, like, dependent that nature is, strong and healthy. Yeah. They teach us to be careful.
[00:27:57] Unknown:
Yeah, I think this is about Yeah, this is the catch 22 about nature conservation in Belgium. I think that they they want to remove humans from the natural areas, which I can understand because we're very densely populated. So we can just visit there as tourists as walkers in the forest on the paths. And I can totally understand their vision because there are so few forests. But on the other hand, by doing this, nature becomes something very casual, like like, I don't know. Like Let's go to the zoo. Like a zoo or a museum or or, you know, a a a serenity. Let's go and look at you. And it becomes less, like, essential, like, you know, your your, supply of of food and of medicine. And and, yeah, it it just becomes very casual. And I think there's also a downside, about this approach.
[00:28:54] Unknown:
It feels like you're you if you go, it's like consuming something. Like, yeah, let's go to the restaurant. Let's go to the zoo. Let's go to the museum. And it's not something naturally anymore because, I mean yeah. I as you say, I can really understand, and probably it's a necessary thing to do it. Mhmm. But it just makes people even more, like, disconnected from it. Absolutely.
[00:29:21] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And this is like a vicious cycle because if they become more disconnected, then they they are not so close to nature, so they will not defend it. They will not, you know, they will think it's less important than it actually is in reality. And that is something that is really a downside, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:45] Unknown:
Oh, crazy. How many people are living in Belgium? Oh, very bad numbers.
[00:29:54] Unknown:
Really? I don't know. I would have to look that up. We're actually in the north part in Flanders where I live. We're really very densely populated. Yeah. Okay. I can totally understand that they're doing this. And I'm not, I also tell my students to please follow the rules. It's even not allowed according to really the strict law even to take a fallen leaf out of the forest or a twig that has fallen off. Oh, woah. Woah. Because you're disturbing, like, the the soil and the microbiome of the soil because it has to feed with a decaying matter. Yeah. And again, I can totally understand, and I will always ask my students to follow these rules.
But I've I think it's also a bit sad on the other side. And I'm glad that sometimes I get to go to other countries where the rules are different, yeah, to experience also something different. So, yes, how is the, the the general botanical so not specifically about foraging, but, like, the general botanical knowledge in Switzerland. Like, do people generally know what a dandelion is or or a stinging nettle is or or or don't they?
[00:31:15] Unknown:
I think like the very regular things they know.
[00:31:19] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:31:20] Unknown:
Like dandelion, sting nettles. Yeah. Then that's probably it. But no. There is a few people they they know quite a lot because they're interested in that too. And there's people I always tell them also, like, this is maybe something what you will also see when you're going for a walk. So it's nice to take that at home. What's the name actually for Gueter Heinrich? It's like the wild spinach?
[00:31:55] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Prava Hendrik, we call it. Yeah. I know.
[00:32:00] Unknown:
We have it a lot here, and it's so tasty and nice. And, I think this is something where people take it home, and they will just see it or like Spitzwegherich. I think there the people are interested on it, but it's it's for sure a bubble. So I'm I'm sure there's many people they have no idea about I mean, they know maybe sting nettles because they think it's not nice.
[00:32:25] Unknown:
Because they sting. Yes. Yeah.
[00:32:28] Unknown:
But they for sure don't know. I mean, they know maybe the flowers of the dandelion, but they have no clue that they can eat it. Mhmm. Or even when I was a child, my my grandparents told me they're poison. Like the the the juice, the white juice which is coming out, it's poison. Or there's so many plants, they call them poison even when they are not.
[00:32:53] Unknown:
Yes. This is why This is to me also something very interesting how how many times we are warned about the natural world. Mhmm. But how many times it's actually true. It's Yeah. Yeah. Especially in our area.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
And also, like, I don't know if you have that sometimes about, Fuchspantworm.
[00:33:15] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. The Fuchs roundworm. Yes. Oh, yes. As soon as you say you're a forager, people are like,
[00:33:23] Unknown:
oh, oh. But you're still alive. Okay.
[00:33:28] Unknown:
But how that's that situation in Switzerland, I wonder. Yeah. I mean, it's nearly never happening.
[00:33:34] Unknown:
But I was mostly I'm asking them, have you been, picking some mushrooms once in your life in the forest? Oh yeah, sure. We go every year. So yeah. Then, I mean, the foxes are living there too. Why are you not thinking about that? And have you ever seen a a a field outside with veggies in there, which is, like, surrounded by a huge fence that no animal can enter? No? Okay. Good. So let's not talk anymore about it. But it's interesting that people are so scared about stuff like this even when when, yeah, when there is many other possibilities. But this foreign genes, like, it's just for,
[00:34:20] Unknown:
for wizards. Yes. It really fascinates me. This fear. Where does it come from? It's yeah. And I also see this with people having difficulties. We are very brainwashed with fixed flavors, like flavors that that are uniform. We expect the same flavor in Mhmm. A certain dish. Mhmm. And this is the thing when you work with wild plants that sometimes they are a little bit more fruity or a little bit more aromatic or a little bit it's, you know, it's just different because, there may have been a different soil, different amount of hours of sunlight, and this all influences the flavor. And Mhmm. People people often think that by chasing something the first time, they know how a certain berry or Forever.
Yes. But it's not I tell them really, you have to try different times because it may taste differently. Mhmm. And I think that's very interesting how people just expect these homogeneous, flavors
[00:35:35] Unknown:
and also how Most of people grew up with that. Yes. Exactly. All the same all the time.
[00:35:42] Unknown:
Yeah. And I think it's also a little bit about control because I remember, Yeah. I I did, like, this project and it was in a restaurant and I was, with a colleague, Figueroaerteschhoert, and we were actually cooking with wild plants for for a a large area a large, audience. And, so we were also working with local flavors, local vegetable, local wild plants. And what was interesting is, like, it started with the first course. Like, we were, giving people a drink, and it was a drink that I made based on the seeds of the the hogweed. Yes. Not a giant one, but a Yes. The regular one. Mhmm.
Very nice. I gave people a glass with this drink. I didn't say anything. And I said, just try to to taste it, have all the flavors in your mouth. And they said, yeah. But what is it? What is it? I want to know what I'm drinking. And I said, we will talk about this later. First, I want you to taste. Their tasting. And I said things like, oh, there's pineapple in it. There's definitely pineapple in it. And I said, no. Oh, but then there is and they were putting they were telling all kinds of exotic flavors. And I thought, no, this is just a flavor of nobody had ever hear heard of these hogweed seeds. And it was so interesting Oh, funny. To see how people were just because I think if you know already what's in a dish, you have certain expectations and certain, Yeah. And it's so interesting when people really start to taste their food, I think. Mhmm.
[00:37:21] Unknown:
Mhmm. And they really need I mean, we always tell the people what they're eating, because kind of we need to. Mhmm. But, yeah, I can really, I can really understand. I think it would be nice to have more possibilities to make experiments like that. But then you need to have the agreement of every person normally. Of course. If you do that regularly, if you do it once, it's something else. But, I think it's they would have it differently in mind and also, like, have different flavors when they don't know it. Mhmm. I had once a dish, a dessert with blood.
Because in early times, people they they hadn't the money to to buy eggs because they were so expensive. So they used blood to make cakes or stuff. So Really? And also some biscuits and everything. And I needed to tell the people because we made the ice cream with some roasted, buckwheat with kochi and, lupinin and some blood. So it was kind of a very creamy it was like a mix between coffee and chocolate, like, from the flavors. But because that we needed to tell this to the people, they were like, oh. But they would never figured out that it was blood if we didn't told them. So I think it's it could be super nice to just have it more with flavors from here to let them guess what it could be or what it is for flavors. So they are putting that in their minds that they will remember to that next time and say, I had something very nice. It smelled like chocolate, but it wasn't. So let's try to do it in the new way.
[00:39:05] Unknown:
Yes. It's very interesting to see also for me how you can have really exotic flavors in very local ingredients. Mhmm. Like this pineapple weed who that really tastes like pineapple or Taguetis,
[00:39:19] Unknown:
which is crazy.
[00:39:21] Unknown:
Yes. That is totally crazy. There is so much flavor in that. Yes. Yeah.
[00:39:27] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mean, for us, we are talking in the new in the flavors we know now. We are saying, oh, that smells a bit like sychorje. That smells like tagetes. That smells like, and so on. But if you if you are not having that in your hands, for sure, you go with the flavors, you know. But that's why I'm saying it would be nice to just adapt it. Like Mhmm. Also like girsh. Girsh. Girsh in English. It smells very like, celery. Like the Yes. Celery. Ground elder. Bergenau. Ground elder. And people are so surprised when you just, like, say, well, there's there is no celery celery you can eat. It's just this, and there's also no parsley in it. It's, like, so flavorful about, like, from this.
And I think people are like keeping that in their minds like that. Mhmm. Mhmm. But it's a slowly a slow process as it is with us. And we are doing that, like, so many time, every day, every, I mean, the whole year long, it is some somehow around us. And for these people, it's probably five times a year. In our best case. Yeah. Yeah. But still, it's nice. And I think they're really interested on knowing at least something they're super proud when they say I know, I know this. I know this plant.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
So you were talking about ground elder, but what is what is a plant that really, really surprised you and that really transformed a dish that you were making?
[00:41:05] Unknown:
I I mean, there are many. The Wiesenberenklaue, for sure. The one you you Giant hogweed. Yes. Jager now. The seeds, amazing. Also, like, tagetes, which I figured out a few years ago, which are like, oh, it's so much like, passion fruit if you do it very easy. Like, not too much. Just like infusing it somewhere. Fig leaves, which are like coconut. We made Yes. Ice cream with amasake, so with kochi Oh. And fig leaves, and it was like pina colada. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I think this is really funny and also really nice. My favorite is still the wild cumin.
The leaves of our blueberries, when they are dried in the sun, they have a little bit green tea flavor Oh, wow. Which is also very nice. Oh, let me think. It's always so hard to remember when when it's winter because then you are in a totally different flavor mind. Yeah. Also, like, the the the heads of the Spitzwegerich.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Yes. The plantain.
[00:42:27] Unknown:
Yes. Kinau. They're like mushrooms if you grill them.
[00:42:32] Unknown:
Yes. They are so nice. Yes.
[00:42:34] Unknown:
And I think it's, like, so funny to figure out new things. And I mean, it's just, like, going in so many directions. And also, like, we tried to make kimchi or, like, just infusing them or lack of fermentation. And a few things came out very well, and a few things were absolutely disgusting. But I think it's funny to figure out and to to to also looking forward to the time that it is growing again. So you're going there and you're checking. Is it ready? No. It's not. So you go one week later, and then you are like, yeah. Now it's perfect. Oh, the Knutrich. I really love the Knutrich. Yes.
[00:43:21] Unknown:
Yes. The knotweed. The Japanese knotweed. Yeah. Exactly. He's really,
[00:43:26] Unknown:
yeah, like, how to say, neophyte. Mhmm. So it's not very it's not growing here, but in the in the South Of Switzerland. Okay. And I really love it because it's like a very nice acidity, like rhubarb with without this stuff on your tongue at the end, what you have from the oxal soirem. Yes. So it's really nice to work with that. Or also very, very nice is sour amfel. I only know the names in German.
[00:44:01] Unknown:
Sorrel. It's okay. I can try the state for you. Sorrel. Yes. The sorrel.
[00:44:05] Unknown:
When you just juice it, it's super nice. We're making sorbet. Very fresh. But also to have it for we made a vinaigrette with it. Like, instead of, juice, like, or also like lemon juice, we just use this, which is super, super nice. So you can also go with less vinegar, And it's so fresh and, like, green, but like a citrus green. So, yeah, I really like it. Or I also like the spruce or the the coins from the from the spruce. We made, some drinks with that. So non non alcoholics because we always, figure out something nice also for people who don't, drink alcohol. And I think there's, like, millions of flavors.
[00:45:01] Unknown:
There are. There are so many flavors that even me have no idea that they exist Mhmm. And that I'm still to discover, which is so exciting.
[00:45:12] Unknown:
Yeah, it's very cool. And I think it's just in the area where people think there's not growing that much. I mean, if you go to a country which is more like, close to to the Equator. You have like, huge forest with a lot of fruits which are growing. But I think also here you have so many flavors to discover.
[00:45:35] Unknown:
Yes. And I think in Switzerland also you have you have the altitude. So with different climate zones, I think. So you have different flora there probably.
[00:45:45] Unknown:
Yeah. It's super nice because when we have our menus, we always start in the valley, on one point, and then we can go up and then we can have it very much longer because we are going with the altitude. So we have it very long, the same thing on our menu because we just can every week we go a little bit higher because it's growing there.
[00:46:07] Unknown:
Oh, so you can like climb through the seasons.
[00:46:11] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:46:12] Unknown:
Wow. That's such an interesting factor.
[00:46:15] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really cool. And also if people say, oh, I just missed the elder flower flowers. And then we are, oh, that's very good. Let's have a look. And then you see, oh, yeah. There's still nothing. So we still have the time to organize. And I think we have it with many things because we are on 1,600 meters. So we have, quite a bit of more time to figure out.
[00:46:39] Unknown:
That is very fascinating.
[00:46:42] Unknown:
I would love to have that option. We are never too late, let's say, like this. I mean, for sure not everything is growing up here. Even a few things are only growing up here. So it's really nice to have this movement also.
[00:46:56] Unknown:
So being in Switzerland definitely has some special options. But I'm also wondering, like, what are the the challenges? Like, do you see the impact of climate change and on the flora? Or is there like pressure of tourism in certain areas? Or do you see the loss of traditional knowledge as a challenge? Or what challenges are you facing?
[00:47:21] Unknown:
I think all the tree. You said I think it's everywhere a bit the same. I would say with the heat, we are still quite good here because of we have a very good micro climate in the mountains
[00:47:37] Unknown:
still. Alright.
[00:47:39] Unknown:
And it's until now, it's it'll it seems to be quite, healthy, everything. We had a a good summer. We had enough rain, but also enough sun. It was a nice autumn, but also there is a bit of snow. For sure, there is less snow than when I was a child, but it seems not to be catastrophic right now. Here, for sure, it looks different on other places. But still, I think the plants are changing a bit. They also realize there is something going on with, temperature and heat and dryness because sometimes the the time that it stays dry or wet is longer Mhmm. Than before.
Mhmm. So maybe we will end up in only two seasons, also in monsoon and dry season. Yes. Who knows? Yeah. But also the tourism, for sure, there's more and more people, walking around. But still, we are right here in the area where it's still, like, okay. And we have good institutions like Natur Park, Natural Park, like, they're looking to that. They are giving, like, people also, like, I think it's always something about education. So they educate people. Well, you cannot just walk everywhere. You need to be careful. There is animals living in it. And, on several seasons you shouldn't walk through. So, yeah, I think that makes a lot that people are more consciousness to to walk around. For sure, not all. But I think in general, you could say people are quite aware what they are doing and and how they should do it. And there's not many people throwing stuff somewhere on the floor.
So they're quite aware about that they are just destroying nature if they act like that. And I think what is the biggest problem is, like, for sure that we that our society is more and more feeling separated from nature. As you say, you are you are like going and visiting a park even when it's just something what should be normal to just walk in and enjoy it and not feeling like you are going to a national park, but it's just it's just a forest next to your house. And I think this is, like, a point that makes people Yeah, just going more and more far away, but also to that more people are thinking about to going in another direction. So to to inform to get education about it.
So I think there's also like the people are going in the other direction, too. I mean, even that we both are talking right now, means something. Yes. And people are interested on that. So otherwise, you couldn't make your your, podcasts. And I couldn't make my my my philosophy with my foods because if we would stay in the in the times where they sell well only caviar and, lobster and Saint Jacques is nice. And I will pay this price only for that because we have a a high level price. Yes. But we need to have it because furnishing is it's a lot of time you're spending for that. Yes. And I want to pay my people, like like, good. I don't want to give them a shit, salary.
Mhmm. So we need to have, like, the price they're also having for caviar and all this stuff, which we don't have on our menu. But we have a lot of, things you probably never eat before. Yes. But but definitely not like that. So I think this makes it special. And I think there is enough people that are interested on it. And I really think there's more and more people going in that direction, which is nice. Mhmm.
[00:51:54] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I think it's interesting to see also how people it's hard to put words to this, but how people transform there is some kind of emotional transformation, I think, when they taste wild plants or when they go out and pick them themselves. Oh, yeah. That's It's hard to describe really what happens there, but you you see it too, I think.
[00:52:20] Unknown:
Yeah. That's really nice. I mean, there's like a kind of proudness and connection and, throwback to childhood, like, to early times. And it's a really nice mix. Even, like, I mean, when people harvest it by themselves, it's anyway, like, they they're, like, proud us. Like, wow, look. I made that by myself. I find it in the forest. And I think this is really nice. And I think most people who do that, they are very, very aware and very careful. And I also got sometimes the question, but well, what are you doing if so if everyone is going to foraging? I was like, this will never happen. Because people have no time for that. And they also will not take the time for that because you are just like floated by hundred of things to do. So you need to kind of do it really in your life. And you have not many people who do that because it's a hard job.
[00:53:23] Unknown:
Yes, I think it's it's on an individual level. It's such a beautiful thing to do to slow down and be mindful about what you're eating. And it's also such a pure thing. There is just the plant and you and the here and the now and you pick it and you eat it and there's nothing else. It's just this pure direct relationship that you have. And I think that is the opposite of what what happens in the whole industry.
[00:53:52] Unknown:
Absolutely. About food. It's the yeah. It's the absolute opposite. Yeah. It's the it's the point inside of the yin yang, like the other side. Yes. It's like the antidote, you know? Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:06] Unknown:
So, how do you see the practice of foraging in Switzerland evolving over, like, the next ten, twenty, fifty years?
[00:54:19] Unknown:
I think it will grow, like, the amount of people who do it. Especially, I think, in gastronomy, there is movement going on. There is more and more, chefs and and restaurants, which are interested on doing that. There's more and more people interested on buying this concept in and going there to eat. But I think in a very in a very good way, like, in a healthy way. Not that, like, too many people will just go out and foraging. I think it's more like it's it will stay something very specific, but it will just, like, be more into, the everyday talk than it has been the last hundred years.
So I think it's a good a good amount of people will do it, but with a certain amount of perception. Not just like so I think it's nice. And I I'm pretty sure that, that gastronomy is also has the chance to go in that direction. If they really do it, we don't know. I think it depends also a lot about what is surrounding us in the next ten twenty fifty years. If we have, I mean, doing this means also to have, like, a very stable government around us. If you don't have it, you're not sinking in the first moment to this. You're just, yeah, acting different. And I think it's also a kind of, yeah, in this moment when you when we are talking about gastronomy, it's more about, art piece to say, well, we are going outside and creating something nice, a nice dish with this.
And I think if you are more with, with people, like private, it's also like, well, we have the possibility to do it in our free time. But if you have no security in your life, you are, like, just going in different directions because you need to work more to just drive your daily life. So I think it really depends also on that. But in the very best case, people will be more aware for nature in the next years.
[00:56:44] Unknown:
And how how are your personal dreams about the restaurant? Where do you think What do you think will happen? What are your dreams? What are your
[00:56:59] Unknown:
we are for sure, sooner than later on a point where I need to say, well, I'm doing this now since ten years. Mhmm. What is the next step? Because there's more and more people doing the same thing as as we are doing. So there is, the people which are interested on it, they will not only come to us, they also go to other places which have the same con or similar concept, which is really great, but then I need to, evolve. And also the place here, it's on the farm. It's not a proper restaurant. It's just like the old workshop of my dad. And we are doing this in in, like, provisorium.
It's not a real place to be. So I think if I could wish, I would wish, to have a proper kitchen with a really nice cooking station with wood and having, like, a place which is like we that we have enough space to put out all our jars. Because right now everything is everywhere a little bit. So I see I know the jar problem. Yes. Yeah. It's like they're just, everywhere. If I would go on with, cooking in in in a place, I would I would wish myself to have a a proper space. And otherwise, I think it will be also very interesting to just go a little bit more into education also for young humans, in schools or in in, places where they have, like, the possibility to teach them something about that.
[00:58:42] Unknown:
Alright. Beautiful. Let's see. I have one last question for you. Because I have been in Switzerland when I was, I think when I was about 14 years old. So quite quite a time ago.
[00:58:57] Unknown:
It's time to come again.
[00:58:59] Unknown:
And I remember the wildlife there, the wild animals. And I was wondering if you ever had an encounter with a wild animal while you were picking plants.
[00:59:11] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Sure. I mean, we when we drive up here to to our, village, we always say we make the the safari. Especially in the night, you make a safari because there's so many animals, going around. And yeah. Sure. I mean, while, picking, sometimes you see a deer or, like, foxes or, rabbits, squirrels. And it's so funny to just, like when you realize they are there, then you are just, like, not moving? They're not moving? And then maybe you move a little bit to have a looks in in in their direction, and then sometimes they look also a little bit closer. So it's,
[00:59:59] Unknown:
it's very funny.
[01:00:01] Unknown:
It's very cute. I I think it's very nice to, it feels like you're more more and more I mean, closer and closer with nature because there is something moving directly. I mean, a mushroom and also the plants are moving, but slowly. And an animal is just moving faster. So if the animal sees you, and it's staying there, it's a very nice moment of connection. Yes. It's like a breathtaking moment also. Yeah, get out. Like Yeah.
[01:00:34] Unknown:
Yeah. It's very That never happens in the supermarket. No. Definitely not. Yeah. And they're so beautiful.
[01:00:39] Unknown:
Not. Yeah. And they're so beautiful.
[01:00:44] Unknown:
Yes. It's true. Yeah. So, Rebecca, thank you so much for this very interesting conversation. If people want to find out more about your work or want to come to you to have some wonderful food, where can they find more information?
[01:01:01] Unknown:
So the best is to go on our website. And if you have the newsletter, you always get information in German. But I think nowadays, it's not so hard to make to translate it. But also, we are on Instagram, and there you also see what's going on or LinkedIn, however. So we are everywhere a bit silly. But I think the most informations you will find in in our website. And there you can read a little bit more about our philosophy, and we also have, like, different pictures. It's always good to see pictures because our brain is mostly working with our eyes. So
[01:01:44] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. And what what is the website exactly?
[01:01:48] Unknown:
It's just the Rebecca minus Klobberpunktzeha.
[01:01:53] Unknown:
Okay. Thank you so much. And thank you, Wildy, for listening to this episode. Hope to see you for the next one. And in the meantime, keep powdering your nose with dandelion pollen. Bye bye.
[01:02:09] Unknown:
A warm thank you for listening, Wildy. Are you feeling a wild itch after this episode? Well, just head over to wildplantforager.com, and feel free to connect with me on social media. I'm looking forward to the next episode. I hope you'll be there. But for now, just go outside and follow your wild heart.
Introduction to Wild Podcast
Guest Introduction: Rebecca Klopf
Rebecca's Foraging Journey
Learning and Teaching Foraging
Local Spices and Culinary Creativity
Urban vs. Rural Foraging
Legal Aspects of Foraging
Cultural Perceptions of Nature
Surprising Wild Flavors
Challenges and Opportunities in Foraging
Future of Foraging in Switzerland
Rebecca's Culinary Dreams
Wildlife Encounters While Foraging
Conclusion and Contact Information
