Recorded December 5, 2024
In this episode we welcome Kevin Barrett from Morocco to discuss a little about his french to english translation project of Yousef Hindi's book, "Occident et Islam." The book's exploration of Zionist Messianic Millenarianism and its historical context explains that the state of Israel is not merely a secular nationalist project but also a historically religious one.
We also touch upon the tensions between Paganism, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, drawing parallels with literary works like Milton's "Paradise Lost." Kevin shares insights from his colleague, Dr. E. Michael Jones, and we discuss the influence of figures like Leo Strauss and the neo-conservative movement.
The conversation shifts to the transformation of religious ideologies into racial ones, particularly in the context of Zionism and antisemitism. We explore how these ideologies have evolved over time and their impact on our politics.
Kevin and I also discuss the narratives surrounding 9/11/2001, including the possibility of cellphone calls from airline flights during the era and subsequent insurance claims by Larry Silverstein. We delve into the implications of these narratives and the broader consequences.
Throughout the episode, we reflect on the role of mass media and the importance of preserving differing viewpoints in the face of dominant narratives.
[00:00:00]
Patrick Chenal:
It's, December 5, 2024. It's 6 AM 6:0:2 AM here in Wisconsin, and it's 1:1 PM over in Morocco where my guest, Kevin Barrett, resides. So welcome, Kevin.
[00:00:17] Kevin Barrett:
Hey. Thanks, Patrick. Great to be with you.
[00:00:20] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. So you said you were doing some sort of, translation project? Was it from French to English?
[00:00:26] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. I'm translating Yousef Hindi's book Occident et Islam, which literally would be the West and and Islam. I'm translating the title though as, the West versus Islam or Islam verse rather Islam versus the West question mark. And Yousef Hindi is a French scholar, from a French Moroccan family, and he's been published at, Alain Sorel's, publishing outfit in in Paris. And this particular book is about the well, he he's got a whole series of this, the West versus Islam books, and this first one, the one I'm translating, gets into the whole history of Zionist, Messianic Millenarianism and argues that the state of Israel is not Theodor Herzl's secular nationalist project that the media tells us, but it's actually this kind of extremist over the top, 500 year old, some would say 800 year old project that's essentially a religious project and also a heretical and perhaps even satanic project.
[00:01:39] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. Yesterday I was reading from the 1910 Encyclopedia Britannica on Zionism and it's pretty much the same thing. They had the history of Simon Barkhovka and on from there of the the false messiahs or the false hopes that everyone had in the Jew of the Jews for for being their political leader that would dominate and rule the world more or less and make way for the for peacetime or whatever they they consider it'll it'll be. I don't I'm not it's quite it's quite the crazy thing when you come from it from my background, which is as a Catholic, where Jews are seen more of as the enemies of Christ and Christianity and they there are all sorts of tumultuous things that happened after the death of Christ that just sparked animosity between the two groups and it's been like that ever since and it's probably been that way even before that Christ came and it's just they've been all along, there have been a group of people that say no way we're not gonna do it. We're not going to serve. We'd rather serve in hell than or rather rule in hell than serve in heaven, Kind of like that that famous, book, Paradise Lost by Milton.
[00:03:03] Kevin Barrett:
Right. Right. Yeah. My my false fly weekly news colleague, doctor e Michael Jones of Culture Wars Magazine talks a lot about that, about Milton. And he thinks the United States is the great Satan. That's what he calls it. He says the Iranians were right all along. Yeah. America's political culture goes back to Milton, you know, through Protestantism, and, he he he doesn't like Emerson. I actually kind of like Emerson, but but, but Mike thinks I like Mark
[00:03:34] Patrick Chenal:
Twain, but that doesn't mean that I agree with him completely on everything. So Exactly. Yeah. You could yeah. Definitely. I I I've delved into this and it's, yeah, it's not good. The whole Zionist movement with Herzl back in the 1880s, 1890s, or whenever, you know, around that that time is when quote unquote antisemitism became the norm and, you know, for the reaction against Zionism. And the way they describe it in the Encyclopedia Britannica on the their little article, it's not a little article it's actually like 11 pages of real small type, about antisemitism, is that it was that Zionism benefited a lot from antisemitism because it became not a racial thing anymore after the emancipation and the social socialization of Jews into Christian society.
That's what I would call socialism by the way, from what I've been reading, that you wouldn't have this racial different, you know, that it became instead of a religious difference where you have your religious leader of Christians, which I would consider the Pope to be the ultimate leader of the Christians as insofar as a visible head on earth leading the church, it became more of a racial issue toward the end of 18th or 19th century and into the 20th century and on into the time of Adolf Hitler who kind of took up the reins of the the racialists that wanted to have a nationality of their own minus any sort of religious oath or allegiance.
[00:05:29] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah, That transformation from the religious ideology to the the scientific or scientist Enlightenment. Racial ideology after the enlightenment is the way that plays out, I think, maybe is is that the Jewish mythology, with this eschatology, waiting for their messiah who's gonna be a military conqueror and unite the world, as as a religious ideology, you know, we think of religions as including sort of idealistic elements or elements, with, you know, ethics and values and so on, perhaps even universal ones. So we we care about other people from other tribes just like we care about people from our own tribe and family. Whereas the the, the the Jewish one is very, very tribalistic and looks forward to the conquest of the world by the Jewish Messiah.
And so when this gets updated in biological terms in the 19th and into the 20th centuries after Darwinism, I think that it it kinda fits the neo Darwinian perspective. So you have a lot of modern Jews like Leo Strauss, the founder of Neo Conservatism, who basically embrace the Jewish messianic quest for, making their tribe as powerful as possible and ideally having a messiah who conquers the world for their tribe, and yet they don't really believe in that mythology. They that is, they see the Old Testament and the the all the religious discourse is basically just mythology, and they would translate it into what they think of as scientific thinking, which is that, well, you have this group with its culture and its and its, DNA heritage and all of this, blah blah blah blah blah. That, we we think we're better. And, naturally, we, you know, we we're gonna like each other because our DNA tells us people like us. Right. So they come up with a scientific justification for it. But I I think that that has spilled over. It's not just Jews. That is the basically, Hobbesians today and Machiavellians and other atheists, material materialist, social Darwinian atheists, they look at the world today and they say, you know, how could you continue to have a world with multiple sovereign nations going at it, you know, with with ever more powerful weapons? They're they're gonna destroy each other. You can't have that. You need to have a one world, state where there's peace. Well, how are we gonna get there?
And these people, these these, Hobbesians, neo Darwinians, and Machiavellians, and and Jewish, eschatologists, they all kind of would say, well, you know, there's no, you know, there's no hope in Jesus and there's no hope in God's goodness or anything like that. We don't believe in any of that stuff. What we believe is that there's been this progress throughout history with a Leviathan, Hobbes' term, taking over a bigger and bigger territory and enforcing his brute power on that territory and subjugating everybody else and forcing them to be at peace. And then once he's imposed peace on this larger and larger territory, then they trade and they they become prosperous. And so that so but, therefore, conque war, and conquest is good. And what we look forward to is the ultimate war of conquest, which is the war of conquest for the entire planet that will subjugate the entire planet to 1 ruler, one center of power, one ring to rule them all, and they will impose peace on the whole planet. That's what we're looking for. That's what we want. So these people not only get on board with the whole Jewish eschatological project, but also then translate into secular terms, and that becomes the Zionist dominated American Empire's war to conquer the world. And the Zionist American Empire is run by Jewish oligarchs who, to various extents, buy into the Jewish mythology, to various extents, look forward to this World Congress project for from an atheist and Hobbesian and Darwinian perspective. So that's, where, you know, I think we're at now. And those of us who don't buy that for various reasons, whether we're idealists or whether we're religious idealists, who, look out in horror at this world conquest project, and see that as the ultimate enemy, you know, we we need to sort of figure out what we're up against.
[00:09:41] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah and I would also include what's interesting is is in this the Britannica article on Zionism is they they mentioned millenarianism. Now tell me what your thoughts are on that because it seems like it's a heretical sect of Christianity where they they want to rule basically rule the world and then set up a prince as more or less the messiah. And they're going in in the article they were going into how they would have to have someone who was of the lineage genetically of David even though the records were all destroyed in the temple the temple's destruction in 90 AD. They were doing things like having, rabbis come to check out the genealogy of Oliver Cromwell back during his day in the Puritans in England when they were taking over to see if he would be the Messiah more or less. I mean it's crazy, you know, when when you look back on it, you can look at this stuff and say, well, they they're crazy. It was Apti Speed and all these Jacob Jack, Jacob Frank, and all these other characters that come out of the woodwork later on, and it just seems like a real ball, a real mess we've got ourselves into. And and it seems as the church the Catholic church's power has diminished, temporarily, like the pope no longer has territory like he once had and and the ability to regulate the commerce of Jews. And like you said, it's kind of like this Talmudic Leviathan taking over trade and commerce, and it's taken it over.
[00:11:18] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. And then using all of that, money power to build up a world conquest project. And like I said, you know, there's sort of these two ways of looking at it. 1 is is what the, you know, the modern atheist types would call mythological. And those would be the people who actually care whether their messiah has the bloodlines of of King David or Oliver Cromwell or whatever. You know, they would say that's all ridiculous. All what we really need to do is get enough power so we can force ourselves into, you know, control of the world. And then we if we're gonna do that through presenting a so called messiah figure, we just have to come up with some plausible story, you know, that's gonna convince enough people that we can get away with it. I mean, that's the way they're gonna think about it. There again is justification, like, then that's where religion comes in because you have moral justification and that the works that you do are good and in accordance with God's law.
[00:12:16] Patrick Chenal:
Race, I don't have to, you know, abide by the same rules and regulations that everyone else under us have to. That whole difference, the the whole black and white notion of of racial superiority just it's just a monkey wrench that gets thrown in there to be like, oh, you're a racist. You don't like this. You're or you're a bigot or sexist or a homophobe or whatever it is. And then Yeah. It it's just a constant political game of power, and if you don't have more moral backing of your position, you can get away with anything, it seems, because it's just a matter of getting caught at that point.
[00:12:55] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. They try to silence people by calling people racists and and prevent them from criticizing ideologies or explaining why they prefer, let's say, this religion to that religion. Like, you know, I I don't have a problem that you prefer Christianity to Islam. And, you know, we can argue about, like, you know, why one would prefer one over the other, and that's fine. That's not a problem. But if, like, if we're gonna you know, I'm gonna shut you down, you know, by by saying, oh, if if you're you're an Islamophobe, if there's some reason that you find, you know, Catholicism better than Islam, or, you know, somebody else is a, you know, an anti Catholic bigot if they disagree with something about Catholicism.
And with Judaism, boy, they've really gotten away with murder there. With the antisemitism. Exactly. I mean, they're that idea of the Jewish ideology. You know, if you look at it full in the face, like, Israel Shahach did, like Lauren Guggenaud does, and like, yeah, more and more people are these days. It's a very, problematic ideology. And sure, there could there's some good points and some, you know, some okay, you know, some reasonable points. Not not everything in traditional Judaism as a religion is bad, but there sure is a lot of really deeply problematic stuff, and it seems like they project this on everybody else. Like, the really problematic stuff in in Judaism gets projected on Islam, particularly after the September 11th SIOP.
So, you know, they they say, oh, the the Muslims wanna conquer the world, with with force because they think they're so much better than everybody else, and they wanna throw us into the sea. Well, that's the exact opposite of the truth. It's actually Jewish eschatology that looks forward to conquering the world with force. Muslims, like Christians, look forward to the next the second coming of Jesus, peace upon him Yeah. As the real messiah. But it's the Jews who look forward to the conquest of the world. Yeah. And because they think they're better than everybody else, they think they're racially superior to everybody else, and they're the ones who wanna throw the Palestinians into the sea. So they reject all this. And they get Christians and Muslims to go along with it. Like, there's recently in Syria this thing going on with, as I I was I follow,
[00:15:08] Patrick Chenal:
Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran, and he was calling out these terrorists,
[00:15:14] Kevin Barrett:
Kafiri. Is that the word for it? Yeah. Takfiri. So that means that means people who, basically, they the word Tekfuri means they pronounce Tekfir or they, they essentially, what's it called when you when you ex we expel somebody from the religion or Communicate. Yeah. Ex exactly. So they they excommunicate everybody except themselves. So, basically, they are the enemies of 99% of Muslims because they're this one little group that thinks that they got it right, and all the other Muslims are horrible heretics. And Christians have similar groups. Oh, yeah. By the way, I mean it's it's it's not common just to Islam or any other religion I'd I'd say for that matter. Maybe, I mean Judaism
[00:15:53] Patrick Chenal:
is a class in and of itself though because they have their own state. They have their own political power and then not only that, they have states within states like the United States and you have various rulers in the United States that belong to the Jewish tribe and religion that see themselves as superior, in the sense and supreme in the sense that they get to dictate what our policies are in relation to foreign policy that in a way that benefits them as a state rather than all of us here as Americans, which goes back to, you know, the whole debate about America first and who controls the finances, who gets to determine how much money is in circulation with, you know, things like the Federal Reserve.
It's interesting. I my family background, so you know my my family somewhat with my brother being in the Kansas City Chiefs. And he has a different mom than I do. My mom, her family is the goes I actually for the last 10 years of my grandfather's life of her father, he stayed with us for about 10 years until he passed away some few years ago, and I found a book in his belongings that he gave me that was about Charles Lindbergh Sr, who was the the senator from Minnesota that was vehemently against the Federal Reserve Act back in the day, and it was signed by his son who did the foreword Charles junior the aviator.
I found out I'm related to him because, like, my great grandpa's great aunt was married to Charles senior and they had 22 daughters. And then he she died in some surgery that was just a normal surgery that went wrong, and then he remarried a woman from Michigan, went to law school in Michigan, and then came back, and they had Charles junior. So that it's it's interesting learning about this because, like, like, my great grandfather used to have Charles Lindbergh fly his airplane, landed in his barnyard type stuff. Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, there's there's lots of certain, I talked to I don't know if you know who John Barber is. He's kind of this, entertainer from back in the day. He got Red Fox going. He lives in Las Vegas. His son works for CBS. He's a producer for CSI and Criminal Minds and all this kind of stuff. Well, he's we were talking about that kind of stuff, and, he calls it serendipity.
When you when I call it providence, but he calls it serendipity where it's like certain things in your life kind of have have an importance that's greater than just your circle of family or friends. And I I found something else interesting. You mentioned 911 and the whole Islam thing and how that got tied. I remember that because it's like right away they were trying to make it a deal, like, oh, it's Islamic terrorists. Well, down the road from me here in Wisconsin in this little rustic town, We lived was a cabin that belonged to this guy named Tom Burnett.
Now Tom Burnett had gone to our church the Sunday before 9:11 and he was on flight 93 and he supposedly was the one who crashed into the door with the snack cart. You know the story about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The snack cart. So so so really so okay. So and then he did disappear that day. Right? So Yeah. He just he supposedly just you know, just disappeared. I I never knew the guy, to be honest with you. I heard about it years later when someone said, oh, yeah. There's a guy that lived around here that died on 9 11 on 90 3. Apparently, they have a memorial to him at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota.
I've seen some sort of statue, but it's interesting because the only real evidence that there were jihadis, so to speak, yelling Allahu Akbar, were those recordings from that black box that supposedly showed up on that flight. Well, it was only released 2 years after the event happened which gave them ample time to mess with the audio files and and insert that into it. And a lot of the family members were upset about it because they wouldn't release it for 2 years. And then Yeah. I remember that.
[00:20:23] Kevin Barrett:
There there are a lot a lot of, questions about that whole, everything, the the alleged phone calls from these flights
[00:20:31] Patrick Chenal:
as well as the the black box recording. Whether it was even possible for them to make cell phone calls. I mean, they
[00:20:37] Kevin Barrett:
that doesn't make any sense using that technology from that. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually pretty well established that they couldn't there couldn't have been any, actual connections on cell phone calls or any conversations. And so, originally, the story from the FBI, as reported in the media back in 2001 was that these were cell phone calls. And indeed, there were, people who'd gotten these cell phone calls were quoted as saying that they recognized the cell phone number of their loved one who was calling them from the doomed flights, mainly 93. And then, years later at the trial of Zacharias Moussawi, who was the supposed, plaintiff hijacker. Right? The guy who who was taking lessons and stuff. But somehow never got involved.
At that trial, the FBI then, you know, had to introduce evidence around these calls, and then they suddenly changed the story and made sort of all except for maybe one of them, a, supposed seat back phone call. But then there's there are problems about whether there could have been, whether there were seatback phones in that flight. And I believe it's been resolved for the other for for flight 77, the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon. It has been resolved that there definitely were no seatback phones on that flight. And that therefore, solicitor general Ted Olson, then solicitor general Ted Olson just died a little bit ago, who claimed that he got a call from his wife Barbara Olson, the famous TV commentator from the doomed and hijacked flight, had could not possibly have been true because there were no seatback phones. There's no way to make that call pass and clearly, there could not have been a connected cell phone call from, from that altitude because that plane was flying at over 10000 feet at the time. So we know for sure that Ted Olson either lied or he was fooled by somebody voice morphing his wife or or, you know, holding a gun to her head as she made the phone call to him from some place other than being on that plane.
So that that story was has been proven, you know, 100% odds to be untrue. And similarly, it it's not maybe with there's a little bit more wiggle room, but the stories of the alleged calls from flight 93, the one that supposedly crashed Pennsylvania, are also highly dubious. There's all sorts of interesting anomalies around those. So that's one of the, you know, rabbit holes that people sometimes go down.
[00:23:05] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. And I don't blame them because it was a pivotal moment in the history of our country. And and I remember that day I was, you know, got woken up when the first one came and and I watched television on CNN, and I saw the second one happen live on TV. And it's like, woah. What's going on here? It you know, it's complete complete mass trauma in that sense. And I would say another thing that's serendipity in this whole thing is I used to there's a family that would go to our church, husband and wife, and they had children. One of them became a Catholic priest, and I remember visiting him at the Vatican in 99, 2000 during the whole millennium transition.
And his sisters, I later on worked for them some years after that, half a decade maybe a little more than that, and it was interesting because they had a business that was doing court reporting in and one of the sisters lived here in Luck near Luck, Wisconsin and then the other lived in Manhattan, and they their main client for their court reporting thing was this company this group called Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen, and Katz off of Wall Street, and they dealt with they're basically clients of JPMorgan. And not only that, other high profile type things. And I I worked for them for a while doing video and computer tech. So I would see depositions, and and I would work on they would get these stenographer, you know, you take the text from the stenographer and match it up like subtitles to to a video. They'd have a videographer that would show the depositions, and I remember when I started working there, it was just after the whole 2,008 stock, you know, collapse the the housing market collapse.
And we were doing some whole high profile stuff, like people dealing directly with Ben Bernanke and all these people. But the case they had previous to that, they worked for Larry Silverstein, and they were my my boss, she Monica, she she ended up seeing evidence from that case because they worked for Silverstein on that claim for the World Trade Center terrorist claim that they because Silverstein had taken out some some sort of new policy regarding terrorism and and ended up doubling the money that he otherwise would have gotten for it.
[00:25:37] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Well, he doubled and redoubled, actually. Redoubled and redoubled. Yeah. Yeah. He he he bought the insurance policy. Well, he bought he bought the whole World Trade Center in July of 2001, and then he doubled the terrorism insurance policy that had previously existed when it was owned by the Port Authority. And then after, you know, 9 11 happened, he then, call he demanded double indemnity claiming that there had been 2 separate and completely unrelated terrorist attacks, namely the 2 airplanes. Mhmm. And he actually got that. And so he I think he ended up getting somewhere in the neighborhood of, 3 and a half to 4 and a half 1000000000 1000000000.
Something. Yeah. Somewhere in that neighborhood. And his own investment had been, something like 15,000,000. And then he, his partners had put up another 100, a little over a 100,000,000. So, that total investment of him and his partners of like a little over a 100,000,000, he himself, reaped this windfall insurance profit of, I think it's I think it's 4 and a half, $1,000,000,000. Wow. When it came down to it cash with cash payout too. He hardballed according to the mainstream reports at the time, that is right before 911, he hardballed his insurance his insurers into changing the terms to cash payout.
[00:26:55] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. And he could get away with it because of the high profile nature of it. He can Right. Just drag it out if he wanted to. Yeah. And he he got a a Jewish insurance company to take it, and then they turned around and farmed it all out to reinsurers. And, so these all these different little reinsurers took the hit. No. I had heard that Donald Trump was the 2nd highest bidder on that property when he was bidding against Larry Silverstein.
[00:27:19] Kevin Barrett:
Well, Silverstein was not the highest bidder. Silverstein was given the kind given the World Trade Center even though it was not the highest bidder. I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean, I I don't know what Trump's bid was. It'd be an interesting research project. Though. Yeah. I I had heard that he was the 2nd highest bidder behind,
[00:27:34] Patrick Chenal:
Silverstein, but I could be mistaken. And then also another thing that was odd was the people who did the scrapping of the metal for that were the Manafort brothers. And I don't know if you know who Paul Manafort was, but I think he was the campaign manager first go around with Trump. He came he came in after Lewandowski, Corey Lewandowski, and it was at Ben Shapiro's mate at Breitbart. Sarah Fields something I think it was Sarah Fields or whatever, supposedly got pushed, and then he left. Lewandowski left, and then Manafort came in. Well, the Manafort brothers run a scrap scrap business in Manhattan, and they got the contract.
And a lot of the deals that went down there, they ended up taking the scrap, and a lot a lot of it went to China, but also a lot of it went to Ukraine to the various, blast furnaces that they have there for for melting steel.
[00:28:39] Kevin Barrett:
Interesting. So so that was, I think I remember hearing that the steel, was taken to Fresh Kills Landfill, which apparently had kind of a dubious reputation. I so I I don't know if Manafort owned the landfill or just the company that was, transiting
[00:28:55] Patrick Chenal:
the steel. Yeah. That's that's that's something I think I learned back in the day from Jeremy Roth Kushel and and his and Greg, his his partner. But I used to you know, I I forget how I found them. I weren't they were they on VT at one point,
[00:29:10] Kevin Barrett:
I think? Yeah. I I mean, I I used to interview those guys, especially Jeremy, fair bit. And I I don't remember whether they published at VT. That, you know, neither of those guys, as far as I know, really had a a particular outlet where they wrote printed articles. Instead, they did a lot of, audio visual, a lot of podcasting stuff, including coming on my podcast. Now you remind me, I should get back in touch with them. For some reason, I think Greg got kind of mad at me for some reason. I can't remember what that was. Jeremy, I I don't know. I think, you know, Jeremy, he's he's got a family to take care of, and so he's, I think, put more of his time into that.
But, I should check-in with him because, you know, I I like those guys. I I visited them in in Kansas. I got to stay, with Jeremy for a while. In fact, I I was Tony Hall and I were staying at Jeremy's house when the people in in Canada, B'nai B'rith or whatever, the ADL Canada, forged this, you know, horrific anti semitic image and put it on Tony's Facebook page unbeknownst to Tony, you know, because Tony Tony Hall is this old man like me. Yeah. Right. So he's he's got this Facebook page where anybody can post anything there. And so some guy that Tony, you know, some name that Tony doesn't know, posts this, you know, this, oh, there was no holocaust, but there should have been, image.
And then the next thing you know, the whole Canadian media goes crazy because, oh, there's this evil antisemitic image on this professor's Facebook page. And the first that Tony hears about it really is when it's in the media. And because he doesn't put, you know, he's not Yeah. And he lost his job, didn't he? Yeah. He ended up yeah. He was never able to teach again. He he didn't lose his pension, and he still has his professor emeritus status. So he sort of fought them to a draw, and but never he never got to teach again.
[00:31:02] Patrick Chenal:
Which is which is a shame. I mean, we we we should take all of all of these professors that lost their jobs and and just put them in one institution and and say, hey. I'd I'd go to that. You know? Sign me up for something like that. You know? You, Tony Hall, e Michael Jones, all these people that lost their jobs because of it and and then went on to do independent work. You know? It'd be nice to get you all in one place. And I guess we do have you all in one place with, the Internet nowadays, and I I really appreciate what you do and and the others that are that you've interviewed throughout the years, I I find it fascinating. And how long did you, were you involved in academia?
[00:31:45] Kevin Barrett:
Well, it kinda depends, you know, where do you wanna start, but I I did my undergraduate work at the University of Wisconsin from 1976 through 1981. And then I became a bohemian in San Francisco, making artistic movies and, you know, playing in a punk band and things like that and writing poetry and writing writing stuff. Kevin, were you were you doing actual film, like
[00:32:12] Patrick Chenal:
photographic film, that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. I was into cinematography.
[00:32:17] Kevin Barrett:
I still have a camera, actually. I have a 35 millimeter ARRI Flex motion picture camera sitting in a box here. More serious than anything I ever did. I I just had I I ended up with a top of the line super 8 camera. Oh, okay. Yeah. I've got one of those too. 4. I need, like, 4 4 movies that are ranging from, you know, 3 minutes long to 10 minutes long or something like that. But I I hung around with the art institute people who were you know, some of them were actually a little better than I was and more serious about their avant garde movie stuff. And a couple of them hit, you know, made it big and made it got famous. And I'm actually in a few of these movies, but I'm not gonna even mention the titles. So, anyway, yeah, I was out there. And so I got back into the academy by way of the at that time, it was still free.
You could I I think I I did the filmmaking at first through City College, and then I ended up back in a master's program in English, finished that one. Also did my master another master's degree in French, Both of those at San Francisco State. Oh, that's so that's where you got got into French? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I like, my then girlfriend had enrolled me in French at City College just because I guess she wanted to make me more presentable or something or more, you know, give me that, that, Yeah. And so I just kinda accidentally spent a couple of years working on French, and I ended up getting kind of fascinated by the simplest poets. And so I, and then when I was at San Francisco State, I got a year abroad, so I spent a year in France there. And then that was while I was still in the English program. But then once I got back to San Francisco State, I had pretty good French. And I finished the English program, and they were about to make me, a, a professor at San Francisco State. There was this deal for people who could, you know, teach composition as well as literature.
And they hired me, but then the money fell through. The state, didn't withheld the money or something. And so in order for me to teach, I had to be simultaneously enrolled in another program. So I just went and checked went down the hall to the French department, and they saw I could speak good French, so they admitted me into that program. So I ended up getting that that degree just by accident. And then once I had those degrees and I was teaching in the Bay Area, I was teaching humanities, and I, oh, got had a family and got converted to Islam and figured I should learn something about this this faith I was in. What what that that was your family that led you to that? Your wife?
Well, yeah. Actually, yeah. I I got interested in Islam, initially before that because I had accidentally wandered into the wrong classroom at San Francisco State University. Instead of the English class I expected, I found myself in a religious studies class taught by a guy named Jacob Needleman, a Jewish gentleman who was a big name in, the kind of, you know, religious studies world. And he was teaching a class on Kabbalah. And I found that, you know, I I was well into the first hour of that class before I realized I was in the wrong classroom. But it was so interesting, I decided to forget about that English class I was planning to take and just enroll in in Needleman's class. And his class, Introduction to Kabbalah, was taught from his perspective, which was very friendly to traditionalism, which is a school of religious studies, maybe, you know, the dominant school among those who take religion seriously.
And it was founded by Rene Guenon, who is, he was a former freemason who saw the demonic nature of freemasonry and the modern world in general, which freemasonry created. And he converted to Islam, which he said was the best preserved of all of the authentic, traditions. And so I got exposed to that perspective for the first time by way of Needleman's class, and I noticed that all of these big names in religious studies, these traditionalists, including, peep people like, Fridtseff, Shuon, and, various others had all converted to Islam, which seemed, you know, interesting to me.
And it kind of resonated with my Unitarian background a little bit. But then so then I was kind of primed for it when, you know, when Allah, sent my future wife across my path in 1992 or, you know, at the end of 1992.
[00:36:41] Patrick Chenal:
Okay. So that led to it in a in a way may perhaps
[00:36:45] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm still Providence. Traditional. I mean, I basically that that course with Needleman sort of flipped me because before that, I've been unconsciously brainwashed into believing in kind of the, you know, the whole dominant religion these days among the elites, which is, you know, progressivism, everything's always getting better. You know, materialism, it's the everything is explicable in terms of the material world. You know, secularism that, you know, religion should be set aside, and so I'd say and then humanism that, you know, we worship the human being and all of human potential and all of that, rather than God. So I was like, I've been brainwashed into that de facto dominant Western elite religion. And then traditionalism, you know, completely turned that upside down. I realized that all of that was, you know, that the world had been getting worse, not better.
[00:37:34] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. I would I would say it's kind of a historical more of a historical background in that sense, in that regard because of Islam being such a significant role in civilization and history in, not only the Eastern world, but also the Western world for that matter, because there's always been, you know, communication between Christians, Muslims, and Jews, which are the primary religions, I'd say, besides, heathenism or paganism, whatever word you wanna call it, which would be outside of that. And, it's it's very interesting. I mean, I I definitely got into the political part of it and I've always been interested in politics and that sort of thing. But what got me into it was back in the day my dad was really into these patriot groups around here that sprung up, you know, and, back in the 90s I remember going to meetings and they're talking about income taxes and all this kind of stuff and, like, how the government is printing money out of nothing and all the normal, tropes of of the that whole I don't know what you would call it. Have you you've been exposed to that sort of thing. I know that, when one kind of pivotal thing with me was he had some friends who were big into radio, ham radio, that sort of thing, amateur radio, and they knew this guy down in Arizona, William Cooper, who was big back in the day talking about these things, talking about the Freemasons and the Jews, the Anti Defamation League, and what they were doing.
The B'naiberith, that sort of thing. And he really kind of dwelt on the Freemasonic part of it and this the mystery of Babylon. He did a whole series on that. It's really early, this is before Alex Jones became very popular. And actually, those 2 had a feud going. And toward the end of Cooper's life, he he really denounced what Jones was doing.
[00:39:40] Kevin Barrett:
Is Yeah. It was interesting with both those guys. Cooper and Jones predicted 911 before it happened. And then after 911, you know, Jones became famous rich and famous, and and Cooper got shot down in his driveway.
[00:39:53] Patrick Chenal:
That's right. So my friends would go down and they knew Cooper personally, and what he was doing at the time was quite unique. He was taking satellite feeds, he was uploading the satellite, and then you could get your satellite dish and download his feed, and then he was showing people how to create their own small FM broadcasting stations using radio equipment, low powered FM type transmitters. And he got equipment to my friends who then set me up with a radio station back in around the late nineties, early 2000. Wow. Cool. You you were you were ahead of the curve there. Yeah. Well, I was just a dumb kid, though, in the sense that I didn't know exactly what I was broadcasting. Like, when you're that age, I was probably about 17, and, you don't you don't have that historical background. I didn't know exactly what he was talking about. It's only, you know, now that I I look I listen back on those old broadcasts, and I'm like, wow. Yeah. This guy was ahead of his time.
Yeah. But I didn't I didn't know what I was involved when in back then. Like, I didn't have the historical reference at that point because I didn't have the experience and and the reading that he did or any any any of these other people surrounding him did. It's just it comes with age, I guess.
[00:41:13] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I think, you know, you you get stupider as you get older in the sense that your brain doesn't work as well. That is, you know, you're not you can't learn as fast. Your short term memory isn't as good as your long term. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, like, I'm facing that here in Morocco where I'm having to try to rev up my Arabic. You know, there's both, there's there's standard modern standard Arabic, and there's Moroccan Arabic, which are quite different, as different as French is from Latin. So I really have to learn 2 very difficult languages or relearn them. I learned, you know, some of them 25 years ago and then forgot a lot of it. And so trying to do that, in my mid sixties is a challenge, more of a challenge than it is for younger people to to learn languages.
But you get so you're you kinda get stupider in the sense your brain is less flexible and less adept and not as quick and all of that. But you also have a lot more to compare everything to. And so, you know, you have all that that background knowledge, and so it kinda makes up for it. You know? You end up like there's a reason why a lot of cultures have seen old folks as a source of wisdom even though they're a little slow.
[00:42:19] Patrick Chenal:
They, you know, they have more, more knowledge to kind of, you know, compare what little they they're Like like my grandpa who lived with me for 10 years, I learned an awful lot from him, and I had to learn patience for 1 because it's like you get impatient with them because they're slow and they do, you know, they do things in a different manner than a young person does. They don't have as much desire as a young person does, and it it just becomes a matter of learning patience and and gleaning what you can while you can, and you don't know how long you have with that, whoever you're with. And that's kind of the thing that you have to treasure in in the elderly is that they have wisdom that you don't have. You might not know things. Like my grandpa was a pilot and he knew all sorts of planes and things and I didn't become interested in that until after he died and it's like, wow, I wish I had him back because he could tell me about these things that happened back in the past that he dealt with firsthand. And it's like, you don't realize what a treasure you have until it it's missing from your life.
[00:43:20] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I like after COVID, it made me wish I talked more with my grandparents about the 1918, 1919 flu because they they lived through that. They were they were young adults at that time. And, yeah, there's all sorts of stuff. And, also, I I think that preserving the insights gleaned from previous generations is, you know, is the way the mainstream does it is the mainstream just kind of keeps, you know, retooling their consensus reality, which is often pretty far from what we would recognize as reality. But that those of us, you know, who are dissidents, sometimes we're I I don't know whether we even really think about this problem is, you know, how are we gonna continue, you know, help help continue this movement to challenge these dominant narratives. And I I'm actually thinking that we should be a little you know, we should think more about that. Like, people, you know, like my, producer at No Lies Radio, Alan Reese, passed away with his passwords. And Alan had founded No Lies Radio, which had this huge archive of stuff, mostly 911 truth related, including my stuff. Now I did manage to grab a lot of what he had of my own programs, but not all of it. There's a lot of stuff out there that he had that I never that's gone now.
And and so had Alan, you know, thought about this, you know, I think he probably died from the jab. He he, came down, but I believe it was a fast acting cancer of some kind, not that long after he was jabbed. But if if he had, and he was very much in denial about that. He was, you know, he he thought the jab was a good thing. But in any case, he really should have thought about, you know, what's gonna happen if I'm gone and, you know, make sure that somebody has access to those passwords. And, likewise, I think, you know, all of us doing this kind of work should be thinking sort of along those lines. Like, what what's a way to sort of structure this alternative media work so that it's not gonna just disappear, so it's it's gonna continue to present the strongest possible challenge?
And we look back historically and people like Lindbergh, whom you mentioned earlier, you know, he was very mainstream. He was by far the best known celebrity and public figure in the United States during his time. And then he got marginalized and forgotten after World War 2 because he had been well, he'd been right. That is, you know, he was part of the the anti war group, and those people all got marginalized as supposed anti semites and, you know, they had stood against the good war and so on. So all these people who, from our perspective, were right and who were the dominant force in intellectual life in the United States from the 19 twenties through the twenties thirties and even, you know, right up until the beginning of World War 2, those people all got marginalized afterwards.
And many of them, let's see, John Beatty is one name that comes to mind, all these people like that that you know, Ron Unz has done a lot to help dig up and and make available to people now. But we should be thinking more in those terms. Like, how are we gonna avoid that fate? Right? As as the bad guys continue to work on their technology for trying to enshrine their mainstream narrative and marginalize and silence, people like us, you know, what can we do to make it as hard as possible for them to do that? And that's kind of owning the press,
[00:46:38] Patrick Chenal:
I think, like Hooper was doing. Like, because now he's he's kind of like a cult cult figure, and people know about him, and and and he's still got his legacy of all those recordings and whatnot that he did, the prolific work that he did. That's an example. Whether he's, you know, right or wrong about all things, that's another question. But I recently I started dealing, talking with Paul English over in the UK who who deals a lot in radio type stuff and learning about internet radio broadcasting and since then I've come to learn how to program a radio station to run automatically and that's kind of what I've got going right now with Radio Windmiller.
I have it running off of my Mac Mini and, the software this this guy down in Antioch, Illinois set up for doing DJ commercial radio station programming and it's just phenomenal. You can just take all your favorite podcasts and program them to play at a certain scheduled time and it it all works smoothly and I I like that. I like that notion that we can set up our own like Cooper was doing with the radio stations where you then rebroadcast his material and then you could add your own material, have your own station, and people if if we had the the press where you have the attention of of the majority of people in a in in the world, in the country, or wherever you're at, you can do a lot of good, just like you can do a lot of bad if you have the press and you use it for the wrong thing, and I think that's it's become about money and profit seeking and and that sort of thing, and it's just tainted it. And if we could get that back, like your friends were doing with Nolize Radio and BT and all those others, we could get that. But the the problem is you have things like YouTube and all of these structures in place that everybody goes to, and you get demonetized for any little slight that you you do against the chosen people or whoever it is that is protected in that regard whether it's, you know, Jews, gays, whatever it is.
You say something bad about the vaccine. You get you get demonetized, and I think that's if that's that's always been the problem. It you you don't because the people like Lindbergh, they were putting out material on, his his father was putting out material on the banking system and the money trust, kind of the the against the Wall Street bankers, which to this day are still the problem, And it's all based on gambling, and he he he wasn't doing it for profit. He was doing it to get the information out there, but you almost have to, under the system, do it for profit. Otherwise, it's not gonna continue, and that's the sad part about it. But at the same time, I don't know.
We still I I I hold out hope because we still have the institution. I'm a Catholic. We still have Catholic parishes all throughout this country, and I think that's an institution that's, very much worth putting my time and investment into because I know that we don't have anything if we don't have an an institution to protect us and and and protect the poor and marginalized people because those are the people that are the most affected by these things, like, that that aren't able to to work, aren't able to have the knowledge that someone like you or I have.
And I think we need more, whether whether it's Islam too. Islam has kind of been a protection of of things. I have friends in Damascus and they tell me they don't even have casinos there for instance because it's against the religion. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing here in Morocco. Here here we've got casinos everywhere, Kevin. It's it's ridiculous. And then you you watch TV or you listen to radio, and it's just casino ad after casino ad and gambling, sports betting, all this stuff. I I I can't get into sports. I've never been into it. My brother is an exception,
[00:50:49] Kevin Barrett:
in in what he's done. But He's quite he's quite an exception. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of ridiculously good. Like, when I first when I first met your family through your dad, it was about, you know, you had 2 brothers playing at University of Wisconsin Badgers football team. Right. And what didn't wanna get the backs. And so, oh, okay. 2 football players, whatever, you know. But they were really pushing that on them, you know. And I think if he had gotten it, he he might be dead right now and that and not have gotten on. But he Yeah. Well, I was I was actually right. I remember scheming with your dad trying to figure out, well, how you know, what what's the best approach to take to avoid getting this vaxxed and and so on. And and at the time, though, I didn't I didn't realize that, you know, that that, Leo was was so good. Right? I just, like, just thought, okay. 2, you know, 2 football players among, like, 50 guys on the team or whatever.
And and then just because, oh, well, now I know this guy who has sons on the team. I I paid a little bit of attention to the games. And, and then, like, Leo was, like, just a terror. Like, he was just like, wow. This guy is just insanely good. And and so it's it's kind of cool, like, having that just, you know, coincidence. Oh, I meet somebody, you know, on the football team, randomly. And then this one guy turns out to be, like, this, you know, ridiculously good player who goes and gets in the NFL and win Super Bowls his first two years in the NFL, it's, that was it was kind of interesting. It is. And they're against serendipity.
[00:52:12] Patrick Chenal:
And then not only that, on the team of the guy that started the Super Bowl, his family started the Super Bowl and all this kind of stuff, the whole franchise.
[00:52:19] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's he's Leo's you know, he's really gone to the top of his profession very quickly. Right.
[00:52:27] Patrick Chenal:
But at the same time, the the whole the whole structure of these sports games, it's like that's all people talk about. You know, there's this contingent of men that are obsessed with it that don't talk about anything else. Like, you know, I know people that can sit and spout off statistics about random players that I have never even heard of, and that's their life. But then you talk about 911 truth or any of these other things, political things about what's going on in in Palestine
[00:52:57] Kevin Barrett:
and Ukraine, and and they have no clue. And they're just it's just like you can't reach them. It's a Yeah. Yeah. Well, 911, I I used to try to sort of sneak 911 in through these other interests that people have. You know, whether it's movies, and so they're, you know, they would go see The Matrix or v for Vendetta or or, you know, They Live or whatever. And and you get people interested through that or, you know, you show them stuff like the the the, what was it was that that first scene in the the, Coen Brothers film.
Gosh. Any anyway, all all these movie references. And and then with football, there are football players and coaches who've been 911 truthers. Some of the really good ones, You know, Aaron Rodgers is a 911 truther, was in a bit of a scandal apparently that when Aaron Rodgers was training backup quarterback That's right. Right. The first the first all Aaron Rodgers wanted to talk about was was 911. What really happened? 11. And this guy found that a little odd, but then it's from, you know, the inter the mainstream interview, you kinda get the sense that this guy realized that Aaron had a point. And then there was Pete Carroll, the coach of, of the Seattle Seahawks. He won when he won the Super Bowl, it was right around the time that he had, like, lit into some military guy who was involved with they're coming to talk to the Seahawks and, you know, and and Carroll gave him a heart attack. What what really happened? What really hit the Pentagon?
So there are all these these story. A lot of, you know, NFL players generally
[00:54:26] Patrick Chenal:
are, you know, they're not stupid. They have to have a No. But at the same time, they're they're put in a in a pen in a way because by their agents or whoever's their handler at the time because they can't talk about these things. They're not asked these questions which would then make their their fans think about the same issues like, oh, this guy's talking about this. I should look into that type of deal. They get them Yeah. Yeah. That's like They get them well trained. Yeah, and the vaxx. Well, and not only that, I remember, the whole George Floyd thing. My brother Johnny telling me about what they had them do is they had a meeting with the football team and only the blacks could could talk or and white people couldn't talk during the meetings.
It was just it's completely racist type thing where, you know, they're trying to teach the white people a lesson about about suffering and it's just like, you know, I guess it takes a little bit of patience to be in that environment and be kind of a team player and go along with these stupid rules that you have to just kinda, like, bite your tongue and say, okay. I'm gonna do this anyway because I want I I care about what I'm doing. It's just like so in in a way, at first, I'm like, oh, you should've said something, but then at the same time, it's like, well, no. You, you know, you learn prudence at at a certain point when you're dealing with these sensitive people that can't handle the truth, it's like you have to break it to them in a way that's palatable and they they can handle, and not everybody can handle
[00:55:54] Kevin Barrett:
it all at once. Yeah. Yeah. And if you well, if you're a, say, a football player or most other professions, it's not really your job to No. Focus on on the truth about 911. If you're a journalist, especially a journalist covering these bigger issues, then that is your job. But then again Yeah. But then again, in these bigger issues university professor. Yeah. But then again, these bigger issues like the vax where people are dying, you do have a moral obligation to make a statement. At some point at some point, you do. And even with 911, I think that in a sense, everybody has a moral obligation on that one because, you know, we're talking about this fraud that's being used to completely destroy whatever was good about the United States and then to launch this massive war, you know, causing the deaths of tens of millions of people and just immense human suffering and to kind of lock in this this apocalyptic war for generations.
It's, I mean, it's, you know, such a huge thing that once you figure it out, you know, you you kind of have an obligation to try to do something about it. But then there are different levels of that where, like, when I was a university teacher and I'm teaching an Islam course, the fact that, you know, 9 11 was used to create this clash of civilizations narrative, the fact that the vast majority of the world's Muslims do not believe the official story of 911. You know, these kinds of things are relevant in even, you know, any intro to Islam course, you're gonna have to touch upon that. It may not be the most so that was my excuse for including, like, a week. I we had 1 week, in that class talking about the war on terror and then 1 week talking
[00:57:30] Patrick Chenal:
about Students have questions. Love it. The students. That's it's an obvious thing because that's what people the politics was at the time. Everybody's talking about it, so why not? And that's a lot of reason people probably even took your class in in a sense. Yeah, I mean not not that people don't do it because they're not genuinely interested, but also because it's a topic of politics and you want to learn about the world and why things are happening the way they are. And and you're just a student at a certain point, and you don't know, and you're just interested and let wanna wanna learn.
[00:58:01] Kevin Barrett:
And how you how do you do it? But but by asking questions and and finding answers to the good questions you you come up with. So I wanna thank you Before 9:11, you we only had maybe 15 or 20 people would sign up to the intro to Islam class. And then after 9:11, it went up to, like, 30, 35. And then when I got ambushed by Fox News and and, you know, spent my 15 minutes of fame over 6 months, you know, being attacked by the media about this, then my that class filled up to almost 200 people. Because people were were very curious. Oh, you know, who
[00:58:32] Patrick Chenal:
what would this class be like being taught by, you know, some conspiracy theorist. Right? So they Well, yeah. It's like the the taboo. You don't you can't talk about what's going on. You can't talk about the gorilla in the room, so don't say anything. It's like, well, the human nature being what it is, you that's what all you wanna talk about is that what's the gorilla, £500 gorilla doing in the room here with us. Yeah. I mean, that's that's normal. So anyway, Kevin, I don't wanna hold you too much. This is Patrick Schnell.
I wanna thank everybody for listening to this, and I wanna thank you, Kevin, for being here. Kevin Barrett of Truth Jihad Radio. And thank you very much for being with me while we discuss these important issues and topics.
[00:59:14] Kevin Barrett:
Okay. Well, keep up the great work, Patrick. I I really, enjoy your work, enjoy your feedback on on my podcast as well. Keep that up, please. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. And then where can people find you? Well, I know kevinbarrett.substack.com and also truthjihad.com. That's all run together. Truthjihad
[00:59:34] Patrick Chenal:
dotcom. Alright. Sounds good, Kevin. Thank you very much, and have a good have a good week, and god bless you.
[00:59:42] Kevin Barrett:
Okay. Thanks, Patrick. Take care.
It's, December 5, 2024. It's 6 AM 6:0:2 AM here in Wisconsin, and it's 1:1 PM over in Morocco where my guest, Kevin Barrett, resides. So welcome, Kevin.
[00:00:17] Kevin Barrett:
Hey. Thanks, Patrick. Great to be with you.
[00:00:20] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. So you said you were doing some sort of, translation project? Was it from French to English?
[00:00:26] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. I'm translating Yousef Hindi's book Occident et Islam, which literally would be the West and and Islam. I'm translating the title though as, the West versus Islam or Islam verse rather Islam versus the West question mark. And Yousef Hindi is a French scholar, from a French Moroccan family, and he's been published at, Alain Sorel's, publishing outfit in in Paris. And this particular book is about the well, he he's got a whole series of this, the West versus Islam books, and this first one, the one I'm translating, gets into the whole history of Zionist, Messianic Millenarianism and argues that the state of Israel is not Theodor Herzl's secular nationalist project that the media tells us, but it's actually this kind of extremist over the top, 500 year old, some would say 800 year old project that's essentially a religious project and also a heretical and perhaps even satanic project.
[00:01:39] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. Yesterday I was reading from the 1910 Encyclopedia Britannica on Zionism and it's pretty much the same thing. They had the history of Simon Barkhovka and on from there of the the false messiahs or the false hopes that everyone had in the Jew of the Jews for for being their political leader that would dominate and rule the world more or less and make way for the for peacetime or whatever they they consider it'll it'll be. I don't I'm not it's quite it's quite the crazy thing when you come from it from my background, which is as a Catholic, where Jews are seen more of as the enemies of Christ and Christianity and they there are all sorts of tumultuous things that happened after the death of Christ that just sparked animosity between the two groups and it's been like that ever since and it's probably been that way even before that Christ came and it's just they've been all along, there have been a group of people that say no way we're not gonna do it. We're not going to serve. We'd rather serve in hell than or rather rule in hell than serve in heaven, Kind of like that that famous, book, Paradise Lost by Milton.
[00:03:03] Kevin Barrett:
Right. Right. Yeah. My my false fly weekly news colleague, doctor e Michael Jones of Culture Wars Magazine talks a lot about that, about Milton. And he thinks the United States is the great Satan. That's what he calls it. He says the Iranians were right all along. Yeah. America's political culture goes back to Milton, you know, through Protestantism, and, he he he doesn't like Emerson. I actually kind of like Emerson, but but, but Mike thinks I like Mark
[00:03:34] Patrick Chenal:
Twain, but that doesn't mean that I agree with him completely on everything. So Exactly. Yeah. You could yeah. Definitely. I I I've delved into this and it's, yeah, it's not good. The whole Zionist movement with Herzl back in the 1880s, 1890s, or whenever, you know, around that that time is when quote unquote antisemitism became the norm and, you know, for the reaction against Zionism. And the way they describe it in the Encyclopedia Britannica on the their little article, it's not a little article it's actually like 11 pages of real small type, about antisemitism, is that it was that Zionism benefited a lot from antisemitism because it became not a racial thing anymore after the emancipation and the social socialization of Jews into Christian society.
That's what I would call socialism by the way, from what I've been reading, that you wouldn't have this racial different, you know, that it became instead of a religious difference where you have your religious leader of Christians, which I would consider the Pope to be the ultimate leader of the Christians as insofar as a visible head on earth leading the church, it became more of a racial issue toward the end of 18th or 19th century and into the 20th century and on into the time of Adolf Hitler who kind of took up the reins of the the racialists that wanted to have a nationality of their own minus any sort of religious oath or allegiance.
[00:05:29] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah, That transformation from the religious ideology to the the scientific or scientist Enlightenment. Racial ideology after the enlightenment is the way that plays out, I think, maybe is is that the Jewish mythology, with this eschatology, waiting for their messiah who's gonna be a military conqueror and unite the world, as as a religious ideology, you know, we think of religions as including sort of idealistic elements or elements, with, you know, ethics and values and so on, perhaps even universal ones. So we we care about other people from other tribes just like we care about people from our own tribe and family. Whereas the the, the the Jewish one is very, very tribalistic and looks forward to the conquest of the world by the Jewish Messiah.
And so when this gets updated in biological terms in the 19th and into the 20th centuries after Darwinism, I think that it it kinda fits the neo Darwinian perspective. So you have a lot of modern Jews like Leo Strauss, the founder of Neo Conservatism, who basically embrace the Jewish messianic quest for, making their tribe as powerful as possible and ideally having a messiah who conquers the world for their tribe, and yet they don't really believe in that mythology. They that is, they see the Old Testament and the the all the religious discourse is basically just mythology, and they would translate it into what they think of as scientific thinking, which is that, well, you have this group with its culture and its and its, DNA heritage and all of this, blah blah blah blah blah. That, we we think we're better. And, naturally, we, you know, we we're gonna like each other because our DNA tells us people like us. Right. So they come up with a scientific justification for it. But I I think that that has spilled over. It's not just Jews. That is the basically, Hobbesians today and Machiavellians and other atheists, material materialist, social Darwinian atheists, they look at the world today and they say, you know, how could you continue to have a world with multiple sovereign nations going at it, you know, with with ever more powerful weapons? They're they're gonna destroy each other. You can't have that. You need to have a one world, state where there's peace. Well, how are we gonna get there?
And these people, these these, Hobbesians, neo Darwinians, and Machiavellians, and and Jewish, eschatologists, they all kind of would say, well, you know, there's no, you know, there's no hope in Jesus and there's no hope in God's goodness or anything like that. We don't believe in any of that stuff. What we believe is that there's been this progress throughout history with a Leviathan, Hobbes' term, taking over a bigger and bigger territory and enforcing his brute power on that territory and subjugating everybody else and forcing them to be at peace. And then once he's imposed peace on this larger and larger territory, then they trade and they they become prosperous. And so that so but, therefore, conque war, and conquest is good. And what we look forward to is the ultimate war of conquest, which is the war of conquest for the entire planet that will subjugate the entire planet to 1 ruler, one center of power, one ring to rule them all, and they will impose peace on the whole planet. That's what we're looking for. That's what we want. So these people not only get on board with the whole Jewish eschatological project, but also then translate into secular terms, and that becomes the Zionist dominated American Empire's war to conquer the world. And the Zionist American Empire is run by Jewish oligarchs who, to various extents, buy into the Jewish mythology, to various extents, look forward to this World Congress project for from an atheist and Hobbesian and Darwinian perspective. So that's, where, you know, I think we're at now. And those of us who don't buy that for various reasons, whether we're idealists or whether we're religious idealists, who, look out in horror at this world conquest project, and see that as the ultimate enemy, you know, we we need to sort of figure out what we're up against.
[00:09:41] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah and I would also include what's interesting is is in this the Britannica article on Zionism is they they mentioned millenarianism. Now tell me what your thoughts are on that because it seems like it's a heretical sect of Christianity where they they want to rule basically rule the world and then set up a prince as more or less the messiah. And they're going in in the article they were going into how they would have to have someone who was of the lineage genetically of David even though the records were all destroyed in the temple the temple's destruction in 90 AD. They were doing things like having, rabbis come to check out the genealogy of Oliver Cromwell back during his day in the Puritans in England when they were taking over to see if he would be the Messiah more or less. I mean it's crazy, you know, when when you look back on it, you can look at this stuff and say, well, they they're crazy. It was Apti Speed and all these Jacob Jack, Jacob Frank, and all these other characters that come out of the woodwork later on, and it just seems like a real ball, a real mess we've got ourselves into. And and it seems as the church the Catholic church's power has diminished, temporarily, like the pope no longer has territory like he once had and and the ability to regulate the commerce of Jews. And like you said, it's kind of like this Talmudic Leviathan taking over trade and commerce, and it's taken it over.
[00:11:18] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. And then using all of that, money power to build up a world conquest project. And like I said, you know, there's sort of these two ways of looking at it. 1 is is what the, you know, the modern atheist types would call mythological. And those would be the people who actually care whether their messiah has the bloodlines of of King David or Oliver Cromwell or whatever. You know, they would say that's all ridiculous. All what we really need to do is get enough power so we can force ourselves into, you know, control of the world. And then we if we're gonna do that through presenting a so called messiah figure, we just have to come up with some plausible story, you know, that's gonna convince enough people that we can get away with it. I mean, that's the way they're gonna think about it. There again is justification, like, then that's where religion comes in because you have moral justification and that the works that you do are good and in accordance with God's law.
[00:12:16] Patrick Chenal:
Race, I don't have to, you know, abide by the same rules and regulations that everyone else under us have to. That whole difference, the the whole black and white notion of of racial superiority just it's just a monkey wrench that gets thrown in there to be like, oh, you're a racist. You don't like this. You're or you're a bigot or sexist or a homophobe or whatever it is. And then Yeah. It it's just a constant political game of power, and if you don't have more moral backing of your position, you can get away with anything, it seems, because it's just a matter of getting caught at that point.
[00:12:55] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. They try to silence people by calling people racists and and prevent them from criticizing ideologies or explaining why they prefer, let's say, this religion to that religion. Like, you know, I I don't have a problem that you prefer Christianity to Islam. And, you know, we can argue about, like, you know, why one would prefer one over the other, and that's fine. That's not a problem. But if, like, if we're gonna you know, I'm gonna shut you down, you know, by by saying, oh, if if you're you're an Islamophobe, if there's some reason that you find, you know, Catholicism better than Islam, or, you know, somebody else is a, you know, an anti Catholic bigot if they disagree with something about Catholicism.
And with Judaism, boy, they've really gotten away with murder there. With the antisemitism. Exactly. I mean, they're that idea of the Jewish ideology. You know, if you look at it full in the face, like, Israel Shahach did, like Lauren Guggenaud does, and like, yeah, more and more people are these days. It's a very, problematic ideology. And sure, there could there's some good points and some, you know, some okay, you know, some reasonable points. Not not everything in traditional Judaism as a religion is bad, but there sure is a lot of really deeply problematic stuff, and it seems like they project this on everybody else. Like, the really problematic stuff in in Judaism gets projected on Islam, particularly after the September 11th SIOP.
So, you know, they they say, oh, the the Muslims wanna conquer the world, with with force because they think they're so much better than everybody else, and they wanna throw us into the sea. Well, that's the exact opposite of the truth. It's actually Jewish eschatology that looks forward to conquering the world with force. Muslims, like Christians, look forward to the next the second coming of Jesus, peace upon him Yeah. As the real messiah. But it's the Jews who look forward to the conquest of the world. Yeah. And because they think they're better than everybody else, they think they're racially superior to everybody else, and they're the ones who wanna throw the Palestinians into the sea. So they reject all this. And they get Christians and Muslims to go along with it. Like, there's recently in Syria this thing going on with, as I I was I follow,
[00:15:08] Patrick Chenal:
Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran, and he was calling out these terrorists,
[00:15:14] Kevin Barrett:
Kafiri. Is that the word for it? Yeah. Takfiri. So that means that means people who, basically, they the word Tekfuri means they pronounce Tekfir or they, they essentially, what's it called when you when you ex we expel somebody from the religion or Communicate. Yeah. Ex exactly. So they they excommunicate everybody except themselves. So, basically, they are the enemies of 99% of Muslims because they're this one little group that thinks that they got it right, and all the other Muslims are horrible heretics. And Christians have similar groups. Oh, yeah. By the way, I mean it's it's it's not common just to Islam or any other religion I'd I'd say for that matter. Maybe, I mean Judaism
[00:15:53] Patrick Chenal:
is a class in and of itself though because they have their own state. They have their own political power and then not only that, they have states within states like the United States and you have various rulers in the United States that belong to the Jewish tribe and religion that see themselves as superior, in the sense and supreme in the sense that they get to dictate what our policies are in relation to foreign policy that in a way that benefits them as a state rather than all of us here as Americans, which goes back to, you know, the whole debate about America first and who controls the finances, who gets to determine how much money is in circulation with, you know, things like the Federal Reserve.
It's interesting. I my family background, so you know my my family somewhat with my brother being in the Kansas City Chiefs. And he has a different mom than I do. My mom, her family is the goes I actually for the last 10 years of my grandfather's life of her father, he stayed with us for about 10 years until he passed away some few years ago, and I found a book in his belongings that he gave me that was about Charles Lindbergh Sr, who was the the senator from Minnesota that was vehemently against the Federal Reserve Act back in the day, and it was signed by his son who did the foreword Charles junior the aviator.
I found out I'm related to him because, like, my great grandpa's great aunt was married to Charles senior and they had 22 daughters. And then he she died in some surgery that was just a normal surgery that went wrong, and then he remarried a woman from Michigan, went to law school in Michigan, and then came back, and they had Charles junior. So that it's it's interesting learning about this because, like, like, my great grandfather used to have Charles Lindbergh fly his airplane, landed in his barnyard type stuff. Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, there's there's lots of certain, I talked to I don't know if you know who John Barber is. He's kind of this, entertainer from back in the day. He got Red Fox going. He lives in Las Vegas. His son works for CBS. He's a producer for CSI and Criminal Minds and all this kind of stuff. Well, he's we were talking about that kind of stuff, and, he calls it serendipity.
When you when I call it providence, but he calls it serendipity where it's like certain things in your life kind of have have an importance that's greater than just your circle of family or friends. And I I found something else interesting. You mentioned 911 and the whole Islam thing and how that got tied. I remember that because it's like right away they were trying to make it a deal, like, oh, it's Islamic terrorists. Well, down the road from me here in Wisconsin in this little rustic town, We lived was a cabin that belonged to this guy named Tom Burnett.
Now Tom Burnett had gone to our church the Sunday before 9:11 and he was on flight 93 and he supposedly was the one who crashed into the door with the snack cart. You know the story about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The snack cart. So so so really so okay. So and then he did disappear that day. Right? So Yeah. He just he supposedly just you know, just disappeared. I I never knew the guy, to be honest with you. I heard about it years later when someone said, oh, yeah. There's a guy that lived around here that died on 9 11 on 90 3. Apparently, they have a memorial to him at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota.
I've seen some sort of statue, but it's interesting because the only real evidence that there were jihadis, so to speak, yelling Allahu Akbar, were those recordings from that black box that supposedly showed up on that flight. Well, it was only released 2 years after the event happened which gave them ample time to mess with the audio files and and insert that into it. And a lot of the family members were upset about it because they wouldn't release it for 2 years. And then Yeah. I remember that.
[00:20:23] Kevin Barrett:
There there are a lot a lot of, questions about that whole, everything, the the alleged phone calls from these flights
[00:20:31] Patrick Chenal:
as well as the the black box recording. Whether it was even possible for them to make cell phone calls. I mean, they
[00:20:37] Kevin Barrett:
that doesn't make any sense using that technology from that. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually pretty well established that they couldn't there couldn't have been any, actual connections on cell phone calls or any conversations. And so, originally, the story from the FBI, as reported in the media back in 2001 was that these were cell phone calls. And indeed, there were, people who'd gotten these cell phone calls were quoted as saying that they recognized the cell phone number of their loved one who was calling them from the doomed flights, mainly 93. And then, years later at the trial of Zacharias Moussawi, who was the supposed, plaintiff hijacker. Right? The guy who who was taking lessons and stuff. But somehow never got involved.
At that trial, the FBI then, you know, had to introduce evidence around these calls, and then they suddenly changed the story and made sort of all except for maybe one of them, a, supposed seat back phone call. But then there's there are problems about whether there could have been, whether there were seatback phones in that flight. And I believe it's been resolved for the other for for flight 77, the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon. It has been resolved that there definitely were no seatback phones on that flight. And that therefore, solicitor general Ted Olson, then solicitor general Ted Olson just died a little bit ago, who claimed that he got a call from his wife Barbara Olson, the famous TV commentator from the doomed and hijacked flight, had could not possibly have been true because there were no seatback phones. There's no way to make that call pass and clearly, there could not have been a connected cell phone call from, from that altitude because that plane was flying at over 10000 feet at the time. So we know for sure that Ted Olson either lied or he was fooled by somebody voice morphing his wife or or, you know, holding a gun to her head as she made the phone call to him from some place other than being on that plane.
So that that story was has been proven, you know, 100% odds to be untrue. And similarly, it it's not maybe with there's a little bit more wiggle room, but the stories of the alleged calls from flight 93, the one that supposedly crashed Pennsylvania, are also highly dubious. There's all sorts of interesting anomalies around those. So that's one of the, you know, rabbit holes that people sometimes go down.
[00:23:05] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. And I don't blame them because it was a pivotal moment in the history of our country. And and I remember that day I was, you know, got woken up when the first one came and and I watched television on CNN, and I saw the second one happen live on TV. And it's like, woah. What's going on here? It you know, it's complete complete mass trauma in that sense. And I would say another thing that's serendipity in this whole thing is I used to there's a family that would go to our church, husband and wife, and they had children. One of them became a Catholic priest, and I remember visiting him at the Vatican in 99, 2000 during the whole millennium transition.
And his sisters, I later on worked for them some years after that, half a decade maybe a little more than that, and it was interesting because they had a business that was doing court reporting in and one of the sisters lived here in Luck near Luck, Wisconsin and then the other lived in Manhattan, and they their main client for their court reporting thing was this company this group called Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen, and Katz off of Wall Street, and they dealt with they're basically clients of JPMorgan. And not only that, other high profile type things. And I I worked for them for a while doing video and computer tech. So I would see depositions, and and I would work on they would get these stenographer, you know, you take the text from the stenographer and match it up like subtitles to to a video. They'd have a videographer that would show the depositions, and I remember when I started working there, it was just after the whole 2,008 stock, you know, collapse the the housing market collapse.
And we were doing some whole high profile stuff, like people dealing directly with Ben Bernanke and all these people. But the case they had previous to that, they worked for Larry Silverstein, and they were my my boss, she Monica, she she ended up seeing evidence from that case because they worked for Silverstein on that claim for the World Trade Center terrorist claim that they because Silverstein had taken out some some sort of new policy regarding terrorism and and ended up doubling the money that he otherwise would have gotten for it.
[00:25:37] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Well, he doubled and redoubled, actually. Redoubled and redoubled. Yeah. Yeah. He he he bought the insurance policy. Well, he bought he bought the whole World Trade Center in July of 2001, and then he doubled the terrorism insurance policy that had previously existed when it was owned by the Port Authority. And then after, you know, 9 11 happened, he then, call he demanded double indemnity claiming that there had been 2 separate and completely unrelated terrorist attacks, namely the 2 airplanes. Mhmm. And he actually got that. And so he I think he ended up getting somewhere in the neighborhood of, 3 and a half to 4 and a half 1000000000 1000000000.
Something. Yeah. Somewhere in that neighborhood. And his own investment had been, something like 15,000,000. And then he, his partners had put up another 100, a little over a 100,000,000. So, that total investment of him and his partners of like a little over a 100,000,000, he himself, reaped this windfall insurance profit of, I think it's I think it's 4 and a half, $1,000,000,000. Wow. When it came down to it cash with cash payout too. He hardballed according to the mainstream reports at the time, that is right before 911, he hardballed his insurance his insurers into changing the terms to cash payout.
[00:26:55] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. And he could get away with it because of the high profile nature of it. He can Right. Just drag it out if he wanted to. Yeah. And he he got a a Jewish insurance company to take it, and then they turned around and farmed it all out to reinsurers. And, so these all these different little reinsurers took the hit. No. I had heard that Donald Trump was the 2nd highest bidder on that property when he was bidding against Larry Silverstein.
[00:27:19] Kevin Barrett:
Well, Silverstein was not the highest bidder. Silverstein was given the kind given the World Trade Center even though it was not the highest bidder. I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean, I I don't know what Trump's bid was. It'd be an interesting research project. Though. Yeah. I I had heard that he was the 2nd highest bidder behind,
[00:27:34] Patrick Chenal:
Silverstein, but I could be mistaken. And then also another thing that was odd was the people who did the scrapping of the metal for that were the Manafort brothers. And I don't know if you know who Paul Manafort was, but I think he was the campaign manager first go around with Trump. He came he came in after Lewandowski, Corey Lewandowski, and it was at Ben Shapiro's mate at Breitbart. Sarah Fields something I think it was Sarah Fields or whatever, supposedly got pushed, and then he left. Lewandowski left, and then Manafort came in. Well, the Manafort brothers run a scrap scrap business in Manhattan, and they got the contract.
And a lot of the deals that went down there, they ended up taking the scrap, and a lot a lot of it went to China, but also a lot of it went to Ukraine to the various, blast furnaces that they have there for for melting steel.
[00:28:39] Kevin Barrett:
Interesting. So so that was, I think I remember hearing that the steel, was taken to Fresh Kills Landfill, which apparently had kind of a dubious reputation. I so I I don't know if Manafort owned the landfill or just the company that was, transiting
[00:28:55] Patrick Chenal:
the steel. Yeah. That's that's that's something I think I learned back in the day from Jeremy Roth Kushel and and his and Greg, his his partner. But I used to you know, I I forget how I found them. I weren't they were they on VT at one point,
[00:29:10] Kevin Barrett:
I think? Yeah. I I mean, I I used to interview those guys, especially Jeremy, fair bit. And I I don't remember whether they published at VT. That, you know, neither of those guys, as far as I know, really had a a particular outlet where they wrote printed articles. Instead, they did a lot of, audio visual, a lot of podcasting stuff, including coming on my podcast. Now you remind me, I should get back in touch with them. For some reason, I think Greg got kind of mad at me for some reason. I can't remember what that was. Jeremy, I I don't know. I think, you know, Jeremy, he's he's got a family to take care of, and so he's, I think, put more of his time into that.
But, I should check-in with him because, you know, I I like those guys. I I visited them in in Kansas. I got to stay, with Jeremy for a while. In fact, I I was Tony Hall and I were staying at Jeremy's house when the people in in Canada, B'nai B'rith or whatever, the ADL Canada, forged this, you know, horrific anti semitic image and put it on Tony's Facebook page unbeknownst to Tony, you know, because Tony Tony Hall is this old man like me. Yeah. Right. So he's he's got this Facebook page where anybody can post anything there. And so some guy that Tony, you know, some name that Tony doesn't know, posts this, you know, this, oh, there was no holocaust, but there should have been, image.
And then the next thing you know, the whole Canadian media goes crazy because, oh, there's this evil antisemitic image on this professor's Facebook page. And the first that Tony hears about it really is when it's in the media. And because he doesn't put, you know, he's not Yeah. And he lost his job, didn't he? Yeah. He ended up yeah. He was never able to teach again. He he didn't lose his pension, and he still has his professor emeritus status. So he sort of fought them to a draw, and but never he never got to teach again.
[00:31:02] Patrick Chenal:
Which is which is a shame. I mean, we we we should take all of all of these professors that lost their jobs and and just put them in one institution and and say, hey. I'd I'd go to that. You know? Sign me up for something like that. You know? You, Tony Hall, e Michael Jones, all these people that lost their jobs because of it and and then went on to do independent work. You know? It'd be nice to get you all in one place. And I guess we do have you all in one place with, the Internet nowadays, and I I really appreciate what you do and and the others that are that you've interviewed throughout the years, I I find it fascinating. And how long did you, were you involved in academia?
[00:31:45] Kevin Barrett:
Well, it kinda depends, you know, where do you wanna start, but I I did my undergraduate work at the University of Wisconsin from 1976 through 1981. And then I became a bohemian in San Francisco, making artistic movies and, you know, playing in a punk band and things like that and writing poetry and writing writing stuff. Kevin, were you were you doing actual film, like
[00:32:12] Patrick Chenal:
photographic film, that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. I was into cinematography.
[00:32:17] Kevin Barrett:
I still have a camera, actually. I have a 35 millimeter ARRI Flex motion picture camera sitting in a box here. More serious than anything I ever did. I I just had I I ended up with a top of the line super 8 camera. Oh, okay. Yeah. I've got one of those too. 4. I need, like, 4 4 movies that are ranging from, you know, 3 minutes long to 10 minutes long or something like that. But I I hung around with the art institute people who were you know, some of them were actually a little better than I was and more serious about their avant garde movie stuff. And a couple of them hit, you know, made it big and made it got famous. And I'm actually in a few of these movies, but I'm not gonna even mention the titles. So, anyway, yeah, I was out there. And so I got back into the academy by way of the at that time, it was still free.
You could I I think I I did the filmmaking at first through City College, and then I ended up back in a master's program in English, finished that one. Also did my master another master's degree in French, Both of those at San Francisco State. Oh, that's so that's where you got got into French? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I like, my then girlfriend had enrolled me in French at City College just because I guess she wanted to make me more presentable or something or more, you know, give me that, that, Yeah. And so I just kinda accidentally spent a couple of years working on French, and I ended up getting kind of fascinated by the simplest poets. And so I, and then when I was at San Francisco State, I got a year abroad, so I spent a year in France there. And then that was while I was still in the English program. But then once I got back to San Francisco State, I had pretty good French. And I finished the English program, and they were about to make me, a, a professor at San Francisco State. There was this deal for people who could, you know, teach composition as well as literature.
And they hired me, but then the money fell through. The state, didn't withheld the money or something. And so in order for me to teach, I had to be simultaneously enrolled in another program. So I just went and checked went down the hall to the French department, and they saw I could speak good French, so they admitted me into that program. So I ended up getting that that degree just by accident. And then once I had those degrees and I was teaching in the Bay Area, I was teaching humanities, and I, oh, got had a family and got converted to Islam and figured I should learn something about this this faith I was in. What what that that was your family that led you to that? Your wife?
Well, yeah. Actually, yeah. I I got interested in Islam, initially before that because I had accidentally wandered into the wrong classroom at San Francisco State University. Instead of the English class I expected, I found myself in a religious studies class taught by a guy named Jacob Needleman, a Jewish gentleman who was a big name in, the kind of, you know, religious studies world. And he was teaching a class on Kabbalah. And I found that, you know, I I was well into the first hour of that class before I realized I was in the wrong classroom. But it was so interesting, I decided to forget about that English class I was planning to take and just enroll in in Needleman's class. And his class, Introduction to Kabbalah, was taught from his perspective, which was very friendly to traditionalism, which is a school of religious studies, maybe, you know, the dominant school among those who take religion seriously.
And it was founded by Rene Guenon, who is, he was a former freemason who saw the demonic nature of freemasonry and the modern world in general, which freemasonry created. And he converted to Islam, which he said was the best preserved of all of the authentic, traditions. And so I got exposed to that perspective for the first time by way of Needleman's class, and I noticed that all of these big names in religious studies, these traditionalists, including, peep people like, Fridtseff, Shuon, and, various others had all converted to Islam, which seemed, you know, interesting to me.
And it kind of resonated with my Unitarian background a little bit. But then so then I was kind of primed for it when, you know, when Allah, sent my future wife across my path in 1992 or, you know, at the end of 1992.
[00:36:41] Patrick Chenal:
Okay. So that led to it in a in a way may perhaps
[00:36:45] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm still Providence. Traditional. I mean, I basically that that course with Needleman sort of flipped me because before that, I've been unconsciously brainwashed into believing in kind of the, you know, the whole dominant religion these days among the elites, which is, you know, progressivism, everything's always getting better. You know, materialism, it's the everything is explicable in terms of the material world. You know, secularism that, you know, religion should be set aside, and so I'd say and then humanism that, you know, we worship the human being and all of human potential and all of that, rather than God. So I was like, I've been brainwashed into that de facto dominant Western elite religion. And then traditionalism, you know, completely turned that upside down. I realized that all of that was, you know, that the world had been getting worse, not better.
[00:37:34] Patrick Chenal:
Yeah. I would I would say it's kind of a historical more of a historical background in that sense, in that regard because of Islam being such a significant role in civilization and history in, not only the Eastern world, but also the Western world for that matter, because there's always been, you know, communication between Christians, Muslims, and Jews, which are the primary religions, I'd say, besides, heathenism or paganism, whatever word you wanna call it, which would be outside of that. And, it's it's very interesting. I mean, I I definitely got into the political part of it and I've always been interested in politics and that sort of thing. But what got me into it was back in the day my dad was really into these patriot groups around here that sprung up, you know, and, back in the 90s I remember going to meetings and they're talking about income taxes and all this kind of stuff and, like, how the government is printing money out of nothing and all the normal, tropes of of the that whole I don't know what you would call it. Have you you've been exposed to that sort of thing. I know that, when one kind of pivotal thing with me was he had some friends who were big into radio, ham radio, that sort of thing, amateur radio, and they knew this guy down in Arizona, William Cooper, who was big back in the day talking about these things, talking about the Freemasons and the Jews, the Anti Defamation League, and what they were doing.
The B'naiberith, that sort of thing. And he really kind of dwelt on the Freemasonic part of it and this the mystery of Babylon. He did a whole series on that. It's really early, this is before Alex Jones became very popular. And actually, those 2 had a feud going. And toward the end of Cooper's life, he he really denounced what Jones was doing.
[00:39:40] Kevin Barrett:
Is Yeah. It was interesting with both those guys. Cooper and Jones predicted 911 before it happened. And then after 911, you know, Jones became famous rich and famous, and and Cooper got shot down in his driveway.
[00:39:53] Patrick Chenal:
That's right. So my friends would go down and they knew Cooper personally, and what he was doing at the time was quite unique. He was taking satellite feeds, he was uploading the satellite, and then you could get your satellite dish and download his feed, and then he was showing people how to create their own small FM broadcasting stations using radio equipment, low powered FM type transmitters. And he got equipment to my friends who then set me up with a radio station back in around the late nineties, early 2000. Wow. Cool. You you were you were ahead of the curve there. Yeah. Well, I was just a dumb kid, though, in the sense that I didn't know exactly what I was broadcasting. Like, when you're that age, I was probably about 17, and, you don't you don't have that historical background. I didn't know exactly what he was talking about. It's only, you know, now that I I look I listen back on those old broadcasts, and I'm like, wow. Yeah. This guy was ahead of his time.
Yeah. But I didn't I didn't know what I was involved when in back then. Like, I didn't have the historical reference at that point because I didn't have the experience and and the reading that he did or any any any of these other people surrounding him did. It's just it comes with age, I guess.
[00:41:13] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I think, you know, you you get stupider as you get older in the sense that your brain doesn't work as well. That is, you know, you're not you can't learn as fast. Your short term memory isn't as good as your long term. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, like, I'm facing that here in Morocco where I'm having to try to rev up my Arabic. You know, there's both, there's there's standard modern standard Arabic, and there's Moroccan Arabic, which are quite different, as different as French is from Latin. So I really have to learn 2 very difficult languages or relearn them. I learned, you know, some of them 25 years ago and then forgot a lot of it. And so trying to do that, in my mid sixties is a challenge, more of a challenge than it is for younger people to to learn languages.
But you get so you're you kinda get stupider in the sense your brain is less flexible and less adept and not as quick and all of that. But you also have a lot more to compare everything to. And so, you know, you have all that that background knowledge, and so it kinda makes up for it. You know? You end up like there's a reason why a lot of cultures have seen old folks as a source of wisdom even though they're a little slow.
[00:42:19] Patrick Chenal:
They, you know, they have more, more knowledge to kind of, you know, compare what little they they're Like like my grandpa who lived with me for 10 years, I learned an awful lot from him, and I had to learn patience for 1 because it's like you get impatient with them because they're slow and they do, you know, they do things in a different manner than a young person does. They don't have as much desire as a young person does, and it it just becomes a matter of learning patience and and gleaning what you can while you can, and you don't know how long you have with that, whoever you're with. And that's kind of the thing that you have to treasure in in the elderly is that they have wisdom that you don't have. You might not know things. Like my grandpa was a pilot and he knew all sorts of planes and things and I didn't become interested in that until after he died and it's like, wow, I wish I had him back because he could tell me about these things that happened back in the past that he dealt with firsthand. And it's like, you don't realize what a treasure you have until it it's missing from your life.
[00:43:20] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I like after COVID, it made me wish I talked more with my grandparents about the 1918, 1919 flu because they they lived through that. They were they were young adults at that time. And, yeah, there's all sorts of stuff. And, also, I I think that preserving the insights gleaned from previous generations is, you know, is the way the mainstream does it is the mainstream just kind of keeps, you know, retooling their consensus reality, which is often pretty far from what we would recognize as reality. But that those of us, you know, who are dissidents, sometimes we're I I don't know whether we even really think about this problem is, you know, how are we gonna continue, you know, help help continue this movement to challenge these dominant narratives. And I I'm actually thinking that we should be a little you know, we should think more about that. Like, people, you know, like my, producer at No Lies Radio, Alan Reese, passed away with his passwords. And Alan had founded No Lies Radio, which had this huge archive of stuff, mostly 911 truth related, including my stuff. Now I did manage to grab a lot of what he had of my own programs, but not all of it. There's a lot of stuff out there that he had that I never that's gone now.
And and so had Alan, you know, thought about this, you know, I think he probably died from the jab. He he, came down, but I believe it was a fast acting cancer of some kind, not that long after he was jabbed. But if if he had, and he was very much in denial about that. He was, you know, he he thought the jab was a good thing. But in any case, he really should have thought about, you know, what's gonna happen if I'm gone and, you know, make sure that somebody has access to those passwords. And, likewise, I think, you know, all of us doing this kind of work should be thinking sort of along those lines. Like, what what's a way to sort of structure this alternative media work so that it's not gonna just disappear, so it's it's gonna continue to present the strongest possible challenge?
And we look back historically and people like Lindbergh, whom you mentioned earlier, you know, he was very mainstream. He was by far the best known celebrity and public figure in the United States during his time. And then he got marginalized and forgotten after World War 2 because he had been well, he'd been right. That is, you know, he was part of the the anti war group, and those people all got marginalized as supposed anti semites and, you know, they had stood against the good war and so on. So all these people who, from our perspective, were right and who were the dominant force in intellectual life in the United States from the 19 twenties through the twenties thirties and even, you know, right up until the beginning of World War 2, those people all got marginalized afterwards.
And many of them, let's see, John Beatty is one name that comes to mind, all these people like that that you know, Ron Unz has done a lot to help dig up and and make available to people now. But we should be thinking more in those terms. Like, how are we gonna avoid that fate? Right? As as the bad guys continue to work on their technology for trying to enshrine their mainstream narrative and marginalize and silence, people like us, you know, what can we do to make it as hard as possible for them to do that? And that's kind of owning the press,
[00:46:38] Patrick Chenal:
I think, like Hooper was doing. Like, because now he's he's kind of like a cult cult figure, and people know about him, and and and he's still got his legacy of all those recordings and whatnot that he did, the prolific work that he did. That's an example. Whether he's, you know, right or wrong about all things, that's another question. But I recently I started dealing, talking with Paul English over in the UK who who deals a lot in radio type stuff and learning about internet radio broadcasting and since then I've come to learn how to program a radio station to run automatically and that's kind of what I've got going right now with Radio Windmiller.
I have it running off of my Mac Mini and, the software this this guy down in Antioch, Illinois set up for doing DJ commercial radio station programming and it's just phenomenal. You can just take all your favorite podcasts and program them to play at a certain scheduled time and it it all works smoothly and I I like that. I like that notion that we can set up our own like Cooper was doing with the radio stations where you then rebroadcast his material and then you could add your own material, have your own station, and people if if we had the the press where you have the attention of of the majority of people in a in in the world, in the country, or wherever you're at, you can do a lot of good, just like you can do a lot of bad if you have the press and you use it for the wrong thing, and I think that's it's become about money and profit seeking and and that sort of thing, and it's just tainted it. And if we could get that back, like your friends were doing with Nolize Radio and BT and all those others, we could get that. But the the problem is you have things like YouTube and all of these structures in place that everybody goes to, and you get demonetized for any little slight that you you do against the chosen people or whoever it is that is protected in that regard whether it's, you know, Jews, gays, whatever it is.
You say something bad about the vaccine. You get you get demonetized, and I think that's if that's that's always been the problem. It you you don't because the people like Lindbergh, they were putting out material on, his his father was putting out material on the banking system and the money trust, kind of the the against the Wall Street bankers, which to this day are still the problem, And it's all based on gambling, and he he he wasn't doing it for profit. He was doing it to get the information out there, but you almost have to, under the system, do it for profit. Otherwise, it's not gonna continue, and that's the sad part about it. But at the same time, I don't know.
We still I I I hold out hope because we still have the institution. I'm a Catholic. We still have Catholic parishes all throughout this country, and I think that's an institution that's, very much worth putting my time and investment into because I know that we don't have anything if we don't have an an institution to protect us and and and protect the poor and marginalized people because those are the people that are the most affected by these things, like, that that aren't able to to work, aren't able to have the knowledge that someone like you or I have.
And I think we need more, whether whether it's Islam too. Islam has kind of been a protection of of things. I have friends in Damascus and they tell me they don't even have casinos there for instance because it's against the religion. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing here in Morocco. Here here we've got casinos everywhere, Kevin. It's it's ridiculous. And then you you watch TV or you listen to radio, and it's just casino ad after casino ad and gambling, sports betting, all this stuff. I I I can't get into sports. I've never been into it. My brother is an exception,
[00:50:49] Kevin Barrett:
in in what he's done. But He's quite he's quite an exception. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of ridiculously good. Like, when I first when I first met your family through your dad, it was about, you know, you had 2 brothers playing at University of Wisconsin Badgers football team. Right. And what didn't wanna get the backs. And so, oh, okay. 2 football players, whatever, you know. But they were really pushing that on them, you know. And I think if he had gotten it, he he might be dead right now and that and not have gotten on. But he Yeah. Well, I was I was actually right. I remember scheming with your dad trying to figure out, well, how you know, what what's the best approach to take to avoid getting this vaxxed and and so on. And and at the time, though, I didn't I didn't realize that, you know, that that, Leo was was so good. Right? I just, like, just thought, okay. 2, you know, 2 football players among, like, 50 guys on the team or whatever.
And and then just because, oh, well, now I know this guy who has sons on the team. I I paid a little bit of attention to the games. And, and then, like, Leo was, like, just a terror. Like, he was just like, wow. This guy is just insanely good. And and so it's it's kind of cool, like, having that just, you know, coincidence. Oh, I meet somebody, you know, on the football team, randomly. And then this one guy turns out to be, like, this, you know, ridiculously good player who goes and gets in the NFL and win Super Bowls his first two years in the NFL, it's, that was it was kind of interesting. It is. And they're against serendipity.
[00:52:12] Patrick Chenal:
And then not only that, on the team of the guy that started the Super Bowl, his family started the Super Bowl and all this kind of stuff, the whole franchise.
[00:52:19] Kevin Barrett:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's he's Leo's you know, he's really gone to the top of his profession very quickly. Right.
[00:52:27] Patrick Chenal:
But at the same time, the the whole the whole structure of these sports games, it's like that's all people talk about. You know, there's this contingent of men that are obsessed with it that don't talk about anything else. Like, you know, I know people that can sit and spout off statistics about random players that I have never even heard of, and that's their life. But then you talk about 911 truth or any of these other things, political things about what's going on in in Palestine
[00:52:57] Kevin Barrett:
and Ukraine, and and they have no clue. And they're just it's just like you can't reach them. It's a Yeah. Yeah. Well, 911, I I used to try to sort of sneak 911 in through these other interests that people have. You know, whether it's movies, and so they're, you know, they would go see The Matrix or v for Vendetta or or, you know, They Live or whatever. And and you get people interested through that or, you know, you show them stuff like the the the, what was it was that that first scene in the the, Coen Brothers film.
Gosh. Any anyway, all all these movie references. And and then with football, there are football players and coaches who've been 911 truthers. Some of the really good ones, You know, Aaron Rodgers is a 911 truther, was in a bit of a scandal apparently that when Aaron Rodgers was training backup quarterback That's right. Right. The first the first all Aaron Rodgers wanted to talk about was was 911. What really happened? 11. And this guy found that a little odd, but then it's from, you know, the inter the mainstream interview, you kinda get the sense that this guy realized that Aaron had a point. And then there was Pete Carroll, the coach of, of the Seattle Seahawks. He won when he won the Super Bowl, it was right around the time that he had, like, lit into some military guy who was involved with they're coming to talk to the Seahawks and, you know, and and Carroll gave him a heart attack. What what really happened? What really hit the Pentagon?
So there are all these these story. A lot of, you know, NFL players generally
[00:54:26] Patrick Chenal:
are, you know, they're not stupid. They have to have a No. But at the same time, they're they're put in a in a pen in a way because by their agents or whoever's their handler at the time because they can't talk about these things. They're not asked these questions which would then make their their fans think about the same issues like, oh, this guy's talking about this. I should look into that type of deal. They get them Yeah. Yeah. That's like They get them well trained. Yeah, and the vaxx. Well, and not only that, I remember, the whole George Floyd thing. My brother Johnny telling me about what they had them do is they had a meeting with the football team and only the blacks could could talk or and white people couldn't talk during the meetings.
It was just it's completely racist type thing where, you know, they're trying to teach the white people a lesson about about suffering and it's just like, you know, I guess it takes a little bit of patience to be in that environment and be kind of a team player and go along with these stupid rules that you have to just kinda, like, bite your tongue and say, okay. I'm gonna do this anyway because I want I I care about what I'm doing. It's just like so in in a way, at first, I'm like, oh, you should've said something, but then at the same time, it's like, well, no. You, you know, you learn prudence at at a certain point when you're dealing with these sensitive people that can't handle the truth, it's like you have to break it to them in a way that's palatable and they they can handle, and not everybody can handle
[00:55:54] Kevin Barrett:
it all at once. Yeah. Yeah. And if you well, if you're a, say, a football player or most other professions, it's not really your job to No. Focus on on the truth about 911. If you're a journalist, especially a journalist covering these bigger issues, then that is your job. But then again Yeah. But then again, in these bigger issues university professor. Yeah. But then again, these bigger issues like the vax where people are dying, you do have a moral obligation to make a statement. At some point at some point, you do. And even with 911, I think that in a sense, everybody has a moral obligation on that one because, you know, we're talking about this fraud that's being used to completely destroy whatever was good about the United States and then to launch this massive war, you know, causing the deaths of tens of millions of people and just immense human suffering and to kind of lock in this this apocalyptic war for generations.
It's, I mean, it's, you know, such a huge thing that once you figure it out, you know, you you kind of have an obligation to try to do something about it. But then there are different levels of that where, like, when I was a university teacher and I'm teaching an Islam course, the fact that, you know, 9 11 was used to create this clash of civilizations narrative, the fact that the vast majority of the world's Muslims do not believe the official story of 911. You know, these kinds of things are relevant in even, you know, any intro to Islam course, you're gonna have to touch upon that. It may not be the most so that was my excuse for including, like, a week. I we had 1 week, in that class talking about the war on terror and then 1 week talking
[00:57:30] Patrick Chenal:
about Students have questions. Love it. The students. That's it's an obvious thing because that's what people the politics was at the time. Everybody's talking about it, so why not? And that's a lot of reason people probably even took your class in in a sense. Yeah, I mean not not that people don't do it because they're not genuinely interested, but also because it's a topic of politics and you want to learn about the world and why things are happening the way they are. And and you're just a student at a certain point, and you don't know, and you're just interested and let wanna wanna learn.
[00:58:01] Kevin Barrett:
And how you how do you do it? But but by asking questions and and finding answers to the good questions you you come up with. So I wanna thank you Before 9:11, you we only had maybe 15 or 20 people would sign up to the intro to Islam class. And then after 9:11, it went up to, like, 30, 35. And then when I got ambushed by Fox News and and, you know, spent my 15 minutes of fame over 6 months, you know, being attacked by the media about this, then my that class filled up to almost 200 people. Because people were were very curious. Oh, you know, who
[00:58:32] Patrick Chenal:
what would this class be like being taught by, you know, some conspiracy theorist. Right? So they Well, yeah. It's like the the taboo. You don't you can't talk about what's going on. You can't talk about the gorilla in the room, so don't say anything. It's like, well, the human nature being what it is, you that's what all you wanna talk about is that what's the gorilla, £500 gorilla doing in the room here with us. Yeah. I mean, that's that's normal. So anyway, Kevin, I don't wanna hold you too much. This is Patrick Schnell.
I wanna thank everybody for listening to this, and I wanna thank you, Kevin, for being here. Kevin Barrett of Truth Jihad Radio. And thank you very much for being with me while we discuss these important issues and topics.
[00:59:14] Kevin Barrett:
Okay. Well, keep up the great work, Patrick. I I really, enjoy your work, enjoy your feedback on on my podcast as well. Keep that up, please. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. And then where can people find you? Well, I know kevinbarrett.substack.com and also truthjihad.com. That's all run together. Truthjihad
[00:59:34] Patrick Chenal:
dotcom. Alright. Sounds good, Kevin. Thank you very much, and have a good have a good week, and god bless you.
[00:59:42] Kevin Barrett:
Okay. Thanks, Patrick. Take care.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Translation Project: The West vs. Islam
Zionism and Historical Perspectives
Religious Ideologies and World Politics
Millenarianism and Historical Figures
Personal History and Family Connections
9/11 Conspiracy Theories
Academic Journey and Conversion to Islam
Political Awareness and Influences
Media Control and Alternative Narratives
Sports, Politics, and Public Perception
Moral Obligations and Truth Seeking
Conclusion and Farewell
