Value 4 Value

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Why am I travelling across the world to meet people who I've never even spoken to? In Ep#58 we're going to examine the driving forces behind collaboration and how technology is only enabling more and more of it.

Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, Deezlaughs, Adam Curry & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). Check out their podcasts!

40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.

Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:11) - Why do people work for free?
(1:54) - Quote 1
(5:16) - But is there much creative collaboration?
(8:00) - Quote 2
(11:58) - Can these ideals change industries?
(12:20) - Quote 3
(13:43) - Topic continued
(15:46) - Where are we at now?
(19:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(24:03) - Latest Developments
(27:01) - Why Bitcoin
(31:20) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(34:00) - Stockholm - Abi Muir


Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast

Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts

Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Abi Muir: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6473218

[00:00:00] Unknown:

Why am I travellingacross the world?   To meet people I've neverspoken to before.   Welcome, welcome, welcome.   Welcome everyone   to another episode of theValue for Value podcast.   I'm your host,   Kyrin here,and this is a podcast for   digital content creators   who want to connect deeperwith their audience,   perhaps monetise   their podcastor their product   or their musicor whatever it is   that they're creatingdigitally   and experiencethe benefits of peer   to peer connection   directlywith their audience   without having to use   the big conglomerationsof Spotify or,   you know,   social media and all thesesorts of things.  

Now this episode todayis going to   talk a little bitabout why we collaborate   and perhaps   how collaborationmight change in the future   and how industrieshave changed overall.   So why do we do it?   Some different typesof collaboration,   how it's changedindustries   and where we fit.   The collaboration is as wespeak.   As I'm recording hereon the 11th of March 2024.   So why do people workfor free?   I think it'sa good question to ask.   And let's start off   with bustinga common misconception   and one that you'llconstantly hear me   repeating on this show.  

Value   does not only equal money,money is part of it,   but it's not the onlything in the world.   And I think that moneyis not everything,   which is why,   you know,   why aren't people justchasing it constantly?   Why isn't it   not the only thingon their mind   that they're constantlydriving   for that dictatesall their decisions?   Why is everyonenot an investment banker   and working out   in the coal minesin hot, sweaty conditions   to earnas much bank as they can?   And you know, why wouldpeople even collaborate   for for no monetary gain,for no financial gain?   And this iswhy we're going to start   diving into a book   called The Inevitableby Kevin Kelly,   because he's got   quite a few points here   from this periodof the 2000   where people are startingto collaborate online.  

And we were noticing,some interesting   behavioursare starting to occur.   They're actually workingreally hard   and not necessarilyfor financial gain.   So we're   going to have call read   out here from page 141   and then we'll do a little   bit of analysisof this quote.   In contrast   to the previous categoryof casual cooperation,   collaboration on largecomplex projects tend   to bring the participantsonly indirect benefits,   since each memberof the group interacts   with only a small partof the end product   and enthusiastsmay spend months   writing code   for a subroutinewhen the program's   full utilityis several years away.  

In fact,   the work rewardratio is so out of kilter   from a free marketperspective,   the workers do immenseamounts of high market   value workwithout being paid.   That these collaborativeefforts   make no sensewithin capitalism.   I'm adding to the economicdissonance   we've become accustomedto enjoying the products   of these collaborationsfree of charge.   Half of all web   pages in the world   today are hosted on morethan 35 million servers   running freeApache software,   which is open sourcecommunity, created a free   clearinghouse called 3DWarehouse offer   several million complex3D models of any form   you can imagine a bootto a bridge   created and freely swapped   by the very skilledenthusiasts.  

Nearly 1 million communitydesigned Arduino   sends 6 millionRaspberry Pi   computers have been builtby schools and hobbyists.   Their designsare encouraged   to be copied freely   and used as the basisfor new products   instead of money.   The peer producerswho create these products   and services gaincredit status, reputation,   enjoyment, satisfactionand experience.   So what we hear from   that is not   only arepeople collaborating,   but they're not doing itfor a hobby.   This is not just a little   bit of a fun thingon the side.   This is getting closeto serious work,   large scale collaboration,writing code   for a subroutine.  

You know,   it's it'snot the sort of things   where you'd instantly   say like, that's   that's the most intriguingthing out there.   Now, look,for some people,   they actually reallylike coding.   And, you know,   I'm probablyone of these people   who's dived into something   that most peoplewould be like,   That's really boring.   Why would you wasteyour time   and spend time on that?   But it's interestinggoing through this   and we see peoplewho are working   dedicatedly on a project,you know,   this is what the it's gotresponsibilities,   it's got deadlines.   Things have to be met.  

It's large scalecollaboration with,   you know, large   actual kind ofcorporate structures   where or hierarchies,   corporate is probably notthe best word for this.   And they still do itwithout compensation.   But as we heardin that last line,   I think thatlast line is crucial.   What else did they get inin return for this?   Well, they get credit,   they get status,they get reputation,   enjoyment, satisfactionand experience.   So when we start   to look at collaborationthrough a V for V lens   where we acknowledge,okay, not   everything is needingto be in a monetary form   and a.k.a the philosophyof value for value.  

I think it explainsa lot of this behaviour.   So we can say, all right,   there's some collaborationgoing on   and people aren't doing itjust for money.   But is there much creativecollaboration?   Is there many peoplebanding together   to create something   that is perhaps uniqueor that they really want?   And this is where I saythere   is a ridiculous amount.   My favouritego to recently   has been to use Tick Tock   and I think this isjust a great place to see   what are people   actually doing on Tik Tokand what kind of stuff   are they?   Collaborate, how are theycollaborating on their   And I was just doing this   last night   just to make sure   for myself   because I didn't really   create TikTok on the on the usual.  

But I was like,   I know I've seenwhat people are doing   and I'll I'll go through   a couple of the settingsand just, you know,   create a little videoand see what I can do.   So what you can do is   you can add musicto your video from,   you know, musiciansall across the world.   You can put graphic video   effects, you know,   swiping, stopping, doingthese sorts of things.   You can add imagery,you can put photos,   you can put stickersand you can put filters.   You can have   different typesof stylistic   texts and links that linkout to all these things.   So we   can see just onthe technical standpoint,   Tik-Tok didn't createall the stuff   they didn't create,you know,   the various differentfonts.  

They didn't createall of these filters.   It was people   adding them   and they would incorporatethemselves into the app.   But there wasso much stuff   that's behind itand people are using this.   They're using it to create   different types of videosand things like this.   So we've got on   like the technicalstandpoint,   there's a lot of   collaborativethings that go on.   And then if you lookat the other side of it,   there's a lot of things   that people do,   which is actual content   that they'recollaborating with.   So they will reduce dances   that they've seenother people create.  

Or perhaps,   you know, it'svery unlikely   because it's likethe whole chain of events.   That's got to besomeone who created the,   the first like,you know, rolling move   and punching thingor doing it to Doja cat.   They reusenew stories, they   reuse books and quotesfrom books a.k.a   like I'm doing right now,they reuse jokes.   They do in a certainextent.   They reusewhat other people   have created   in terms of artand in terms of   even building structuresand, you know, doing   walkthroughs of   this is my favourite gym   is my favouritepiece of equipment.   Look at this.  

Like, here's ahow to here's   how to do this thing   our products   and just straight upother people's content.   They will you know   how many reaction videosare there to animate   to manga,to other people's videos,   to viral clips,all these sorts of things.   So the whole place is just   full ofexternal references   to other things.   It's pretty   rare to have someonecreating something   which is   completely unique to them,which doesn't reference   somewhere else out.   And there's   a huge workforceand huge hours   being made up   in thiscollaborative work,   and this is where   we're going to jump   onto another page,   another quote from page243 that backs up   this statement.  

So far, the biggest onlinecollaboration   efforts are opensource projects   and the largest of them,such as Apache,   managed several hundredcontributors   about the sizeof a village.   One study estimatesthat 60,000 person   years of work have poured   into the release of FedoraLinux nine.   So we have proofthat Self-assembly   and the dynamicsof sharing   can govern a project.   On a scale of a town,   of course,   the total censusof participants   in online collectivework is far greater.   Reddit, the collaborativefiltering site   has 170 millionunique visitors per month   and 10,000daily active communities.  

YouTube claims1 billion monthly users.   They are the workforce   that produces the videosthat now compete with TV.   Nearly 25 millionregistered users   have contributedto Wikipedia.   130,000 of themare designated active.   More than 300   million active usershave posted on Instagram,   and more than 700million groups   participate in Facebookgroups each month.   So there'sa ridiculous amount.   And obviously social mediais a phenomena   that has captured   a large partof the world's attention,   I guess you'd say,for the last 115 years,   something like that,maybe 20 years.  

Few, including YouTubein this.   And so we see a lot ofpeople are creating stuff.   So I would say there   how much creativecollaboration is there?   That's all we do. That'sall we do as humans.   And from thisyou might say, okay,   you know,   look at these numbers   that people are creating   up on Redditand on Facebook,   Wikipedia or Instagram,all these sorts of places.   Doesn't this suggest   that people will createwithout profit and perhaps   even without attribution?   Because in that tik-tok   add a, you know, referencethat I just made   sure there'ssome little references   here in there   of, you know,especially if it's a music   clip, it'll,   it'll show downat the bottom,   you know, whatthe music clip is   and make it easierfor you to,   to share that viralityor to use it in your own   clip.  

But I think there'sa lot of stuff going on   where it's   actually not   that, you know, one,   people aren't being ableto make a profit.   And to the attributionthat is not so great.   And so you could take well   and obviously this showsthat V for V   is not necessary   because it offersthose sorts of things.   But people are willingto do it anyway.   And this is where I go,Yeah,   this is where I'm starting   to see a trendgoing of people are   getting a bit fed up withthese platforms as well.   Not only there is that   the risk of of youbeing taken off,   whether it be for justor unjust reasons like   that was a recent newsstory of a US   someone on Spotify   they were hosting throughSpotify, Spotify   for podcasts,   very successful showand they just got   taken off for no reason.  

And you know, it'sa computer glitch.   It's,   you know, malfeasance,whatever it is   that malevolencedoesn't really matter.   We seethat not only is there   that,but I think there's also,   you know,   just getting a little bitsick of the social media,   these places of making fatstacks of you creating   and you're onlygetting pincers in return,   whether it be through   a little bitof advertising or,   you know, a little bit of,   I suppose, what   the social media platformsoffer is,   is really a lot of clout.   That's it's   part of that behaviourthat we saw before,   the status, the reputationand things like that.  

But I do definitely seethis trend happening   wherepeople are being like,   I want to   collaboratein different ways   and there's just notthe access,   the ability to do itthrough these platforms   and in the waythat I really want to. So   this iswhere we're coming into.   The next portion herewas, okay,   can these ideals of value   for value changeindustry is can they break   the revolution?   Can the revolutionbreak through   and create a new productor a new way of operating,   which is outside of whatyou would say of like   like the lockdown   social mediaplatforms, for example.  

And I think the answer to   this is ais a resounding yes.   And I'm going to jumponto page 145 here,   which will show onesuch example of this.   How close to a noncapitalistic open source   peer production societycan this movement take us?   Every time that questionhas been asked,   the answer has been closerthan we thought.   Consider Craigslist justclassified ads, right?   Craigslistis far more than that.   It amplified the handycommunity swap board   until it reacheda regional audience,   then enhanced the adswith pictures.   It let the consumer   do all the workof inputting their own ads   and more important,   kept the ads in real timewith real time updates.  

And to top it off,it made them free.   National classifiedsads for free.   How could debt laden   corporate newspaperscompete with that,   operating without statefunding or control,   connecting citizensdirectly to citizens?   Globally, daily,   this mostly freemarketplace   achieved social goodat an efficiency.   And at its peak,it had only 30 employees   that would staggerany government   or traditionalcorporation.   Sure, peer   to peerclassified undermines   the business model   of newspapers,   but at the same timeit makes an   indisputable casethat the sharing model   is a viable alternative   to both profitseeking corporations   and tax supportedcivic institutions.  

Yeah, Yeah.   So, Imean, corporate newspapers   and one of their hugerevenue sources   of classifiedads got wrecked.   Absolutelywrecked by 30 people.   If you think Spotify,YouTube,   or any of these othersocial media platforms   cannot be toppled,you're definitely wrong.   I mean, like the newspaperindustry   is hundreds of years old,some of these places.   And just bya simple mechanism   of allowing usersto create their own ads.   And, you know, granted,that's a structured   format still.   They couldn't do anything   and everythingthat they wanted to,   but they offeredmore ability to do it.  

They offered to do itfor free   through throughthis Craigslist platform.   And it just changedan industry.   It absolutely decimated   a lot of   what was happeningto the newspapers,   and they had to adaptand change that.   So, you know, thesethese other corporations,   the the   the ones ofof social media   and things like that,they're absolutely babies   comparedto some of these longer   standing industries   which didget revolutionised   just by the Internet,by the ability to   create peer to peer   interact in amore peer to peer manner.   And I think a quickbit of history   will show that nothinglost forever and that   I hope the argument   that I've made hereis that collaboration   one, humans like to do it   and it's not necessarilyfor money, but to   they will do it   on a large, large scaleand you can do it through,   you know,   corporate structuresor through hierarchies   and things like that.  

But it's also,   you know,   down to the individualas well, and   and wanting to collaborate   with with music,   even if it's notnecessarily in their mind   that they'recollaborating.   I think that'swhat they're doing.   And that industriescan change by technologies   changing and allowingpeople to,   you know, just justinteract more directly.   Peer to peer as we sawwith with Craigslist.   So I want to jump downto, you know,   where are we at now?   And we're at the beginningstages, I think, of   of another revolution.   I think the social mediaera is coming to an end,   and we're going tocome to it at   a different type of era.  

I think there'll still be   plenty of collaborationand if anything, more,   more and more peopleare getting freed up   from the drudgery of workand of manual labour.   And I did   4 hours of work yesterdayin my in my dad's garden,   and it was just, you know,moving trees around,   cutting stuff down.   And I was just thinkinglike,   imaginedoing 30 years of this.   This is ridiculous.   Thank God for automation,Thank God for machines   that can replacethe labour of,   you know,hundreds of farm workers   with a single tractorand things like this.   And more ofthis is just going to come   about moreand more and more.  

And I am seeing thisat the moment.   So I listen to before   the music shows,for example,   and I've talked about   value for value musicbefore go,   you know,a couple of episodes   previous in thein the last season,   and these musiciansare just   starting to work together   and then they're startingto work together   with other people as well,with the podcast   app developersto be able to broadcast   live with peoplefrom Nostre, with people   with specific abilities   to create stageproductions.   And I think the answer.   COSTELLOJust loud concerts   brought together   a ridiculous amount   of people and showed casethat this   this could actually workand I might do   a little casestudy of that later.  

But essentially it was tovalue for value musicians   getting togetherand creating something,   a live performance   with all sortsof interactive abilities   going on to read out,boost to do things   like this.   I myself just sent in222,222 Satoshis   So the equivalent of right   at this momentprobably about 230 AUD to   a guy called Burberrywhose was integral   to the creationof that previous concert   and wants to do anotherone in the near future.   In early April, I believe.   So I want to participatein these sorts of things   and people are wantingto create more of this.   You know,there's talks of trying   to get towards   a value for valuemusic awards shows.  

I'm encouraging Cole,for example,   to experimentsto not only just do   book reviews for me, but,   you know, createanother podcast   where he perhaps reads outpoems or short stories   or things like this,you know, audio books.   And if that is not enoughto just show case   that, okay,   there is value for valuecollaboration going on,   you know, I'm   planning on travellingto the US in late July   to meet   a whole bunch of peopleI've never met before,   a whole bunch of them   I've never spokento directly before.   I don't think I've spoken   directly to Burberryin a face to face manner   yet I'm willing to spenda ridiculous amount   of time, energy, money   and all thesesorts of things   just to be able to getcloser and to be able to   collaborate more,to meet these people   and have fun with them.  

And, you know, it'skind of like,   you know, sorry, my goodfriend Lucas in Brazil,   you know,   I'll spend three monthswith you,   but it's all about thecollaboration elsewhere.   Not exactly true,   but it's   a large partof the inspiration   of why I'm travellingis to is to go to the US   and to meetall these people.   So I thinkcollaboration is a   is a huge thing   and I think it's just   going to become moreand more prevalent and   it's going to   dictate.   It's going to move towards   a more valuefor value system   where it is   more transparentabout who did what   and to be ableto split things up.  

You know,   I didn't even talk aboutthe money   aspect of of splits andjust how powerful that is.   But I thinkthat did a good job.   You let me know of   of talkingabout collaboration   and why it's important   and how we're going to   do it moreand more in the future.   Welcome to the valuefor value   histogram.   You got that?   I had that music there.   This is the Grand Loungewhere I think out   some people who helpedto support this show   in a monetary formatand to doing great things.   And you know, this createstime.   Christine.This takes time.   A lot of energy,a lot of lights   set up here, a lot of,   you know,   stuffing around, tryingto figure out all of these   all of the   the audioand technical issues   and things like this.  

And so, you know,receiving some value back.   And once again,   for me, it'smore about the messages   rather thanthe actual money.   But the moneycertainly helps as well.   So I'm going to jump into   the V for V boostagrams from last week.   I'm pretty sureI called out Chad F   for jumping inand joining us live.   But if I didn't,thank you very much again,   as well as Cole,   who said we are so backand Cole once again   being the voice actorfor those quotes there.   The first onethat I really want   to read outhere is Dees laughs,   and he says, Sickshirt on the cover file,   a thousand setssent using fountain.  

Thank you, Dees laughs.   And he's referring to,of course,   the shirt that I'm wearingright now,   the Podcasting2.0 certified shirt.   And I believe to get that   shirtyou need to have donated.   I think it was 100, $125through to the podcasting   to point our podcastindex project.   You just need toif you have done that,   just reach out to themand say that.   And I also, you know,you brought up shirt,   so I also have to talkabout the Miyamoto's one.   So if you donate   100,000 Satoshisso at this current moment   that is worth 105 ishAustralian dollars,   I will send you outa shirt, I'll   and you know,   if you're in the U.S.,it's a good chance   I'll deliver it to youpersonally.  

And whether you do thatacross   any of the showsthat we produce,   the mere mortals,mere mortals book reviews   or the valuefor value show of course   will do that.   And wewe love doing that. So   I keep track of that.   That's through the boostagrams only,   unfortunately notthrough the streaming,   because it's kind of hardto to get all that.   But yeah, that's just aif you want another shirt,   that's that'swhere you can do it.   I see Sam Sethi wasstreaming in a lot.   I also see Adam see 1999Welcome back 10,000 site   and. All.   Sent using fountain.   Thank you very much Adamthat is of course   Adam Curry the godfather   sending that inso I very much   thank you for him   and I also want to give a   shout out toI mentioned Sam Sethi.  

He's was streaming in   through his his ownpodcast app True fans.   And I just want to give a   shout out to the true fansbecause   I think they're doingsome really good things   there and it's becominga more fully fleshed out   app, reallygreat on the desktop   and on your onyour mobile.   So either of those isgreat to join in.   And I did see thisthis guy here, Marty, who   just said good,   and I don't knowif this is a boost,   I'm not exactly sure.   I think it's a boostI got once that from that.   Thank you,   Marty, and appreciate   if you could send inat least a hundred so   that can get split up to   all the peoplewho I have in my splits.  

But he's got a really goodservice there and it's   a great onboarding one.   So if you're   if you're newto all of this   and you like Satoshis,   boost your groundvalue for value.   Like, I don't understandwhat's going on.   I'd recommendtrying out true fans   because when you're using   his app,   he's got a lotof explainers   that pop up on your screenand say, like,   if you do this action,this is what it means.   And you can get rewarded   from thisby getting some satoshis,   which is a portionof Bitcoin.   And I would just highlyrecommend trying out   true fans.  

I think it's a greatservice to onboarding.   And if you've got friendswho are   you also want to recommend   telling them to go   to a place where they canjust earn it   by doing stuffwithin the app.   And you know, obviously   they're not goingto become billionaires   from doing this,but enough to get a feel   for what satoshis areand things like this.   I highly recommend   checking out true fansand giving that out.   So thank youeveryone for who   and of course   one for joining me in the   in the live chatand helped out a lot   with getting all of thesesorts of things sorted,   especially the audioside of things   which were stuffing me upa little bit.  

So what are some latestdevelopments?   Well, if you listento the podcasting 2.0   show last week,you would have heard that,   you know, app development,hard app development,   really hard. And   I was just going through,   you know, all of the   different thingsthat you would have to   to try and createto every single person   who comes in with bugtesting or complaints   and, you know,your is not working,   this isn't doing thisand doing that.   And it's almost like a   thankless taskbecause you're   I came up with the analogyof Sisyphus   rolling the boulder uphill   and the boulder is the app   because it'sjust never done.  

There's always something   new to add into it, alwayssomething to be fixed.   Had a chat recentlywith Jason Hudgins   from Podcast Guru.   Another great value forvalue Podcasting 2.0 app   where you canlisten to music in there   and supportyour favourite artists,   which supports splits,   which does streaming,which does boost,   which does chapters, whichdoes, you know, popping.   So you got itinstantly updated.   All of these appsare a great service   and they're offering   excitingbrand new features.   And I this is justmy call out to from that   interview as well   He washe was talking about   like you know, at his job   I've got a backlog of 168things.  

It's just meworking on this app.   It's not making moneyat this precise moment.   And this is my callup for you at home   for listening in,   whether you be an appdeveloper yourself   or you know, some codingand you want to contribute   in an open source manner.   I know many of these appsare open source, like   a podcast, for example.   If you're   along that sort of lines,   if you're just a casualobserver and you like to   to boost in,or if you are perhaps   even a podcast creator,   you know,   you can add these appsin as part of your splits   and help to supporttheir development   and writings, reviews,you know, bugs,   feedback for them,   just even   simple encouragement   collapsed your audienceto use their apps   financial support.  

If you use our PayPallink down below   one and I have committed   to sendingthe PayPal's out   and to help directly   support app developersbecause none of this   could have occurred.   You know the valuefor value show Adam   boosting in them, boosting   in streamingin all of these different   people, collaborating,coming together.   None of this would happenwithout this app   and you know, the core   group of peoplecreating this.   So this is just a shoutout for those at home to   to help support thembecause they're   there's it's a thanklesstask at times   and I think they deserve   more contributionrecognition for   for everythingthat they're doing.  

And yeah   if you want to check outthat conversation   I did with Jason Hudgins,   you'll get a feel for thatand you'll know more   about the podcast guruapp as well.   So we'll leave it at therefor latest developments.   You know, it's worthyof of really reaching out   and helping up yourfavourite app developer   and letting them knowthat.   Let's go on to the whyBitcoin aspect of this,   which is the last   portion of the showbefore the end   where I just talka little bit about   somethingthat's related to Bitcoin   and whyI particularly encourage   using the value valuemodel through it.  

And I'm going to talk   about the numbergo up phenomena   and you'll seeon your screen   now the, the awesomegif that Sven stuff   Uri claims created   and the numbers go upphenomena is in   full effect right now.   You know, we'rereaching all time highs.   I mostly   make myarguments for bitcoin   and value for valueall through the kind   of philosophical aspects   why decentralisationmatters,   why self sovereignty,sovereignty matters, why   having a permissionlessplace to to be able   to send money backand forth and matters   why privacy matters,all these sorts of things.   But there isno denying that   that the aspectof number go up   makesit makes a big difference,   makes a big difference.  

And I'm going to ask youto consider today   perhaps one of the morebase phenomenons   of of human nature,which is greed,   or if you want toput it in   perhaps a neutral light,it's it's   more self-interest,   which I think is isprobably maybe a good way   of putting it as well.   And it's a powerfulincentive.   Powerful incentive.   So, you know,   even though   this whole episodewas about why   why moneydoesn't matter, I'm   going to flip it aroundright at the   at the end here   and say, you know,money does matter   and especiallywhen money goes up.   And so every creatorhere over the last   two yearshas stuck some sets   because   participate in the valuefamily unit model who has,   you know, hadtheir little stash,   had had some incomecome in   and who most importantlyhas held onto it,   that money has doubled,tripled, even quadrupled   from the very bottom.  

If you're talkingan Australian dollar times   and I think there issomething about that   which is worthyof repeating   and acknowledging,which is if   if you want like the valuefor value model and   obviously value for value,you can do it through   other mechanisms,you can do it through fiat   if you want, you can do it   throughAustralian dollars,   you can do it through us,   you can do it throughJapanese   yen, you can do it throughwhatever.   But if you're using itthrough a digital money   that's on the Internet,   that's native for digital   content creators,which makes sense,   then I think this isa pretty strong argument   in terms of once again,the trend of going.  

It's it's kind of hardto deny and argue   that someonewho created a show   you know Ainsley Costelloand just lad for example   the show that they did   I'm going to guess   that was for   a five months ago,perhaps even a little bit   more since that time.   Whatever moneythey have earned from   that has doubled, assumingthey held onto it,   that is a pretty strongincentive   because they're going to   tell their friends like,   yeah, not only did   I earn some money,but it doubled on itself.   I didn't have to doanything.   So this is just alittle call out here that,   you know, number go up.  

I don't like tofocus on it.   I don't think it'sthe most important thing,   but I think it will havean impact.   And, you know, these   these digital contentcreators,   they're goingto want more of it.   And it's like, okay, well,how can I get paid in   this in this magicInternet money?   And three   for for creating my art,for doing things.   And you're not going todo it through Instagram.   You're not going to do itthrough TikTok.   You can earn some,you know,   ice creamemojis and and random crap   like that, tokensthat they've put in there.   But no,   the place that you're   going to doit is through the,   you know, 15ish podcast apps.  

I list out a lost a lot ofthem all the time.   You know   in the just   in this episode truefans pod verse   podcast gallery fountains   really good breezesgreat cosmetics awesome.   If you want the videoside of things,   you can goto three speak if you want   to build noagenda tube for example.   There's plenty of the   different placesCura Costa   and the listgo on pod station   if you want to do itin your browser.   So many different places,you can do this directly   through the podcastindex website.   That's that's where thesepeople are going to go.   And you know, this is just   another recommendation,another trend saying,   okay, you know,   I think this is worthy   of considerationand looking out for.  

So we're going to come   into our final sectionhere, which is the V   for the section,the value for value.   And this is where you canshare some time, talent   and treasure to helpmake the show better.   Sharing the episodewith the digital creator.   I think that's probably   one of the best things,   you know, easiest thingsthat you can do,   whether it be a musician,whether it be a podcast,   whether it bea digital artist,   whether it be a voiceactor, you know,   whether it be someonecreating   filters, visual effects,all these sorts of things,   you know,send it, send this   episode to him   or send the podcast to himand just say like, Hey,   there's a thingcalled value for value.  

And it'sgot some interesting   it's an interesting model   and a way of connectingwith the audience and   and being able to monetiseat the same time   worth checking out.   And you can also join melive, which is really fun.   I do this 10 a.m.   Australian EasternStandard Time on a monday.   So that is if you're likeAustralian Eastern   Standard Time,I don't understand.   It is UTCmidnight on a Sunday.   So whatever your time zone   is, the world you know,plus ten for me here   in Australia so plus tenfrom midnight is 10 a.m.   on a monday.   If you're a negativeyou know eight   then that would make it,you know, 4 p.m.  

in the afternoonon a Sunday easy fast.   So that is the timethat you can do talent,   you know.   Is there anything I can do   to make this show better?   Is there anythingaudio wise video was   that you'd prefer to do   resources that are similarto the ethos   that overlapwith all the things   I'm talking about here?   Do you have any bookrecommendations for books   that describe trendsmoving towards   crowdfunding modelsor peer to peer   or things   that have the value forvalue ethos or examples of   bands, movies, companies   moving towardsthis sort of model?   I would love to knowthese sorts of things,   so sending in thatrecommendation   would be awesome.  

And then finally,treasure.   I've talked about thisa bit.   Use a new podcastapp boost in streaming   a portion 15%,   10% goes to the variouspeople   who have helped me outon this show.   You know, the door fallsfor the pre   and the pre-show musicas well as the intro music   call for reading out hisvoice,   actingchords there, and also   Sven stuff Fury Flamesfor his awesome gifts   that he's allowed meto use for Chapter eight.   All these sorts of things,you know, if you boost   in portions of this,goes to each of them.   So really, you know,   boost and streaming it'svery much appreciated   into this directly   with the money   in one of thosepodcasting apps   you can go to the podcastindex website   and there's also a PayPallink down below.  

Awesome.   We're going to cometo the final portion here,   which is where I playa value for value song   and just to help supportmusicians, to help support   everyone who is, you know,   workingin all of these things.   And we're going to useI'm a bit of a sucker   to be honest,for Australians   and for Australian musicsupporting local,   local in the sensethat she's in Perth.   You know   how manyhours four or five hour   flight from Brisbane,   A local, local artisthere in Australia   whose name is Abi Muir,   she's got this songcalled Stockholm   and it's just a banger.  

So she'sgoing to take us out and   until next week.   Thank youeveryone for joining.  

[00:34:44] Unknown:

My to Could.   Me in the Soul Corridorgo to the town.   Just tired of that for me.   I want to stay closer on.   My familyso they love me and I'm   chained to your   well meaning.   Bless your heart.   Your soul is the way.   And that's it.   My name, the psychic.   But I'm elicitingthis way.   So I'm fine tuning calling   you, me   and me.   I could I see Conor.   Screamingthings of this collision.   You're saying I'm overmy head.   That I've had inside it?   I But I do it again.   You could live withit and still no way.   I'm in   my searchway and it's in my name   and taxing yourselfin this way.  

So I'll find the   content need   me and maybe find   I take all the fun funny.   You know, I.   Take all the pain.   Away, the   you send   me and.