Value 4 Value

Share on social media:

Why am I travelling across the world to meet people who I've never even spoken to? In Ep#58 we're going to examine the driving forces behind collaboration and how technology is only enabling more and more of it.

Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, Deezlaughs, Adam Curry & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). Check out their podcasts!

40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.

Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:11) - Why do people work for free?
(1:54) - Quote 1
(5:16) - But is there much creative collaboration?
(8:00) - Quote 2
(11:58) - Can these ideals change industries?
(12:20) - Quote 3
(13:43) - Topic continued
(15:46) - Where are we at now?
(19:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(24:03) - Latest Developments
(27:01) - Why Bitcoin
(31:20) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(34:00) - Stockholm - Abi Muir


Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast

Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts

Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Abi Muir: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6473218

[00:00:00] Unknown:

Why am I travelling across the world?   To meet people I've never spoken to before.   Welcome, welcome, welcome.   Welcome everyone   to another episode of the Value for Value podcast.   I'm your host,   Kyrin here, and this is a podcast for   digital content creators   who want to connect deeper with their audience,   perhaps monetise   their podcast or their product   or their music or whatever it is   that they're creating digitally   and experience the benefits of peer   to peer connection   directly with their audience   without having to use   the big conglomerations of Spotify or,   you know,   social media and all these sorts of things.  

Now this episode today is going to   talk a little bit about why we collaborate   and perhaps   how collaboration might change in the future   and how industries have changed overall.   So why do we do it?   Some different types of collaboration,   how it's changed industries   and where we fit.   The collaboration is as we speak.   As I'm recording here on the 11th of March 2024.   So why do people work for free?   I think it's a good question to ask.   And let's start off   with busting a common misconception   and one that you'll constantly hear me   repeating on this show.  

Value   does not only equal money, money is part of it,   but it's not the only thing in the world.   And I think that money is not everything,   which is why,   you know,   why aren't people just chasing it constantly?   Why isn't it   not the only thing on their mind   that they're constantly driving   for that dictates all their decisions?   Why is everyone not an investment banker   and working out   in the coal mines in hot, sweaty conditions   to earn as much bank as they can?   And you know, why would people even collaborate   for for no monetary gain, for no financial gain?   And this is why we're going to start   diving into a book   called The Inevitable by Kevin Kelly,   because he's got   quite a few points here   from this period of the 2000   where people are starting to collaborate online.  

And we were noticing, some interesting   behaviours are starting to occur.   They're actually working really hard   and not necessarily for financial gain.   So we're   going to have call read   out here from page 141   and then we'll do a little   bit of analysis of this quote.   In contrast   to the previous category of casual cooperation,   collaboration on large complex projects tend   to bring the participants only indirect benefits,   since each member of the group interacts   with only a small part of the end product   and enthusiasts may spend months   writing code   for a subroutine when the program's   full utility is several years away.  

In fact,   the work reward ratio is so out of kilter   from a free market perspective,   the workers do immense amounts of high market   value work without being paid.   That these collaborative efforts   make no sense within capitalism.   I'm adding to the economic dissonance   we've become accustomed to enjoying the products   of these collaborations free of charge.   Half of all web   pages in the world   today are hosted on more than 35 million servers   running free Apache software,   which is open source community, created a free   clearinghouse called 3D Warehouse offer   several million complex 3D models of any form   you can imagine a boot to a bridge   created and freely swapped   by the very skilled enthusiasts.  

Nearly 1 million community designed Arduino   sends 6 million Raspberry Pi   computers have been built by schools and hobbyists.   Their designs are encouraged   to be copied freely   and used as the basis for new products   instead of money.   The peer producers who create these products   and services gain credit status, reputation,   enjoyment, satisfaction and experience.   So what we hear from   that is not   only are people collaborating,   but they're not doing it for a hobby.   This is not just a little   bit of a fun thing on the side.   This is getting close to serious work,   large scale collaboration, writing code   for a subroutine.  

You know,   it's it's not the sort of things   where you'd instantly   say like, that's   that's the most intriguing thing out there.   Now, look, for some people,   they actually really like coding.   And, you know,   I'm probably one of these people   who's dived into something   that most people would be like,   That's really boring.   Why would you waste your time   and spend time on that?   But it's interesting going through this   and we see people who are working   dedicatedly on a project, you know,   this is what the it's got responsibilities,   it's got deadlines.  

Things have to be met.   It's large scale collaboration with,   you know, large   actual kind of corporate structures   where or hierarchies,   corporate is probably not the best word for this.   And they still do it without compensation.   But as we heard in that last line,   I think that last line is crucial.   What else did they get in in return for this?   Well, they get credit,   they get status, they get reputation,   enjoyment, satisfaction and experience.   So when we start   to look at collaboration through a V for V lens   where we acknowledge, okay, not   everything is needing to be in a monetary form   and a.k.a the philosophy of value for value.  

I think it explains a lot of this behaviour.   So we can say, all right,   there's some collaboration going on   and people aren't doing it just for money.   But is there much creative collaboration?   Is there many people banding together   to create something   that is perhaps unique or that they really want?   And this is where I say there   is a ridiculous amount.   My favourite go to recently   has been to use Tick Tock   and I think this is just a great place to see   what are people   actually doing on Tik Tok and what kind of stuff   are they?  

Collaborate, how are they collaborating on their   And I was just doing this   last night   just to make sure   for myself   because I didn't really   create Tik Tok on the on the usual.   But I was like,   I know I've seen what people are doing   and I'll I'll go through   a couple of the settings and just, you know,   create a little video and see what I can do.   So what you can do is   you can add music to your video from,   you know, musicians all across the world.   You can put graphic video   effects, you know,   swiping, stopping, doing these sorts of things.   You can add imagery, you can put photos,   you can put stickers and you can put filters.  

You can have   different types of stylistic   texts and links that link out to all these things.   So we   can see just on the technical standpoint,   Tik-Tok didn't create all the stuff   they didn't create, you know,   the various different fonts.   They didn't create all of these filters.   It was people   adding them   and they would incorporate themselves into the app.   But there was so much stuff   that's behind it and people are using this.   They're using it to create   different types of videos and things like this.   So we've got on   like the technical standpoint,   there's a lot of   collaborative things that go on.  

And then if you look at the other side of it,   there's a lot of things   that people do,   which is actual content   that they're collaborating with.   So they will reduce dances   that they've seen other people create.   Or perhaps,   you know, it's very unlikely   because it's like the whole chain of events.   That's got to be someone who created the,   the first like, you know, rolling move   and punching thing or doing it to Doja cat.   They reuse new stories, they   reuse books and quotes from books a.k.a   like I'm doing right now, they reuse jokes.   They do in a certain extent.  

They reuse what other people   have created   in terms of art and in terms of   even building structures and, you know, doing   walkthroughs of   this is my favourite gym   is my favourite piece of equipment.   Look at this.   Like, here's a how to here's   how to do this thing   our products   and just straight up other people's content.   They will you know   how many reaction videos are there to animate   to manga, to other people's videos,   to viral clips, all these sorts of things.   So the whole place is just   full of external references   to other things.  

It's pretty   rare to have someone creating something   which is   completely unique to them, which doesn't reference   somewhere else out.   And there's   a huge workforce and huge hours   being made up   in this collaborative work,   and this is where   we're going to jump   onto another page,   another quote from page 243 that backs up   this statement.   So far, the biggest online collaboration   efforts are open source projects   and the largest of them, such as Apache,   managed several hundred contributors   about the size of a village.   One study estimates that 60,000 person   years of work have poured   into the release of Fedora Linux nine.  

So we have proof that Self-assembly   and the dynamics of sharing   can govern a project.   On a scale of a town,   of course,   the total census of participants   in online collective work is far greater.   Reddit, the collaborative filtering site   has 170 million unique visitors per month   and 10,000 daily active communities.   YouTube claims 1 billion monthly users.   They are the workforce   that produces the videos that now compete with TV.   Nearly 25 million registered users   have contributed to Wikipedia.   130,000 of them are designated active.   More than 300   million active users have posted on Instagram,   and more than 700 million groups   participate in Facebook groups each month.  

So there's a ridiculous amount.   And obviously social media is a phenomena   that has captured   a large part of the world's attention,   I guess you'd say, for the last 115 years,   something like that, maybe 20 years.   Few, including YouTube in this.   And so we see a lot of people are creating stuff.   So I would say there   how much creative collaboration is there?   That's all we do. That's all we do as humans.   And from this you might say, okay,   you know,   look at these numbers   that people are creating   up on Reddit and on Facebook,   Wikipedia or Instagram, all these sorts of places.  

Doesn't this suggest   that people will create without profit and perhaps   even without attribution?   Because in that tik-tok   add a, you know, reference that I just made   sure there's some little references   here in there   of, you know, especially if it's a music   clip, it'll,   it'll show down at the bottom,   you know, what the music clip is   and make it easier for you to,   to share that virality or to use it in your own   clip.   But I think there's a lot of stuff going on   where it's   actually not   that, you know, one,   people aren't being able to make a profit.   And to the attribution that is not so great.  

And so you could take well   and obviously this shows that V for V   is not necessary   because it offers those sorts of things.   But people are willing to do it anyway.   And this is where I go, Yeah,   this is where I'm starting   to see a trend going of people are   getting a bit fed up with these platforms as well.   Not only there is that   the risk of of you being taken off,   whether it be for just or unjust reasons like   that was a recent news story of a US   someone on Spotify   they were hosting through Spotify, Spotify   for podcasts,   very successful show and they just got   taken off for no reason.  

And you know, it's a computer glitch.   It's,   you know, malfeasance, whatever it is   that malevolence doesn't really matter.   We see that not only is there   that, but I think there's also,   you know,   just getting a little bit sick of the social media,   these places of making fat stacks of you creating   and you're only getting pincers in return,   whether it be through   a little bit of advertising or,   you know, a little bit of,   I suppose, what   the social media platforms offer is,   is really a lot of clout.   That's it's   part of that behaviour that we saw before,   the status, the reputation and things like that.  

But I do definitely see this trend happening   where people are being like,   I want to   collaborate in different ways   and there's just not the access,   the ability to do it through these platforms   and in the way that I really want to. So   this is where we're coming into.   The next portion here was, okay,   can these ideals of value   for value change industry is can they break   the revolution?   Can the revolution break through   and create a new product or a new way of operating,   which is outside of what you would say of like   like the lockdown   social media platforms, for example.  

And I think the answer to   this is a is a resounding yes.   And I'm going to jump onto page 145 here,   which will show one such example of this.   How close to a non capitalistic open source   peer production society can this movement take us?   Every time that question has been asked,   the answer has been closer than we thought.   Consider Craigslist just classified ads, right?   Craigslist is far more than that.   It amplified the handy community swap board   until it reached a regional audience,   then enhanced the ads with pictures.   It let the consumer   do all the work of inputting their own ads   and more important,   kept the ads in real time with real time updates.  

And to top it off, it made them free.   National classifieds ads for free.   How could debt laden   corporate newspapers compete with that,   operating without state funding or control,   connecting citizens directly to citizens?   Globally, daily,   this mostly free marketplace   achieved social good at an efficiency.   And at its peak, it had only 30 employees   that would stagger any government   or traditional corporation.   Sure, peer   to peer classified undermines   the business model   of newspapers,   but at the same time it makes an   indisputable case that the sharing model   is a viable alternative   to both profit seeking corporations   and tax supported civic institutions.  

Yeah, Yeah.   So, I mean, corporate newspapers   and one of their huge revenue sources   of classified ads got wrecked.   Absolutely wrecked by 30 people.   If you think Spotify, YouTube,   or any of these other social media platforms   cannot be toppled, you're definitely wrong.   I mean, like the newspaper industry   is hundreds of years old, some of these places.   And just by a simple mechanism   of allowing users to create their own ads.   And, you know, granted, that's a structured   format still.   They couldn't do anything   and everything that they wanted to,   but they offered more ability to do it.  

They offered to do it for free   through through this Craigslist platform.   And it just changed an industry.   It absolutely decimated   a lot of   what was happening to the newspapers,   and they had to adapt and change that.   So, you know, these these other corporations,   the the   the ones of of social media   and things like that, they're absolutely babies   compared to some of these longer   standing industries   which did get revolutionised   just by the Internet, by the ability to   create peer to peer   interact in a more peer to peer manner.   And I think a quick bit of history   will show that nothing lost forever and that   I hope the argument   that I've made here is that collaboration   one, humans like to do it   and it's not necessarily for money, but to   they will do it   on a large, large scale and you can do it through,   you know,   corporate structures or through hierarchies   and things like that.  

But it's also,   you know,   down to the individual as well, and   and wanting to collaborate   with with music,   even if it's not necessarily in their mind   that they're collaborating.   I think that's what they're doing.   And that industries can change by technologies   changing and allowing people to,   you know, just just interact more directly.   Peer to peer as we saw with with Craigslist.   So I want to jump down to, you know,   where are we at now?   And we're at the beginning stages, I think, of   of another revolution.   I think the social media era is coming to an end,   and we're going to come to it at   a different type of era.  

I think there'll still be   plenty of collaboration and if anything, more,   more and more people are getting freed up   from the drudgery of work and of manual labour.   And I did   4 hours of work yesterday in my in my dad's garden,   and it was just, you know, moving trees around,   cutting stuff down.   And I was just thinking like,   imagine doing 30 years of this.   This is ridiculous.   Thank God for automation, Thank God for machines   that can replace the labour of,   you know, hundreds of farm workers   with a single tractor and things like this.   And more of this is just going to come   about more and more and more.  

And I am seeing this at the moment.   So I listen to before   the music shows, for example,   and I've talked about   value for value music before go,   you know, a couple of episodes   previous in the in the last season,   and these musicians are just   starting to work together   and then they're starting to work together   with other people as well, with the podcast   app developers to be able to broadcast   live with people from Nostre, with people   with specific abilities   to create stage productions.   And I think the answer.   COSTELLO Just loud concerts   brought together   a ridiculous amount   of people and showed case that this   this could actually work and I might do   a little case study of that later.  

But essentially it was to value for value musicians   getting together and creating something,   a live performance   with all sorts of interactive abilities   going on to read out, boost to do things   like this.   I myself just sent in 222,222 Satoshis   So the equivalent of right   at this moment probably about 230 AUD to   a guy called Burberry whose was integral   to the creation of that previous concert   and wants to do another one in the near future.   In early April, I believe.   So I want to participate in these sorts of things   and people are wanting to create more of this.  

You know, there's talks of trying   to get towards   a value for value music awards shows.   I'm encouraging Cole, for example,   to experiments to not only just do   book reviews for me, but,   you know, create another podcast   where he perhaps reads out poems or short stories   or things like this, you know, audio books.   And if that is not enough to just show case   that, okay,   there is value for value collaboration going on,   you know, I'm   planning on travelling to the US in late July   to meet   a whole bunch of people I've never met before,   a whole bunch of them   I've never spoken to directly before.  

I don't think I've spoken   directly to Burberry in a face to face manner   yet I'm willing to spend a ridiculous amount   of time, energy, money   and all these sorts of things   just to be able to get closer and to be able to   collaborate more, to meet these people   and have fun with them.   And, you know, it's kind of like,   you know, sorry, my good friend Lucas in Brazil,   you know,   I'll spend three months with you,   but it's all about the collaboration elsewhere.   Not exactly true,   but it's   a large part of the inspiration   of why I'm travelling is to is to go to the US   and to meet all these people.  

So I think collaboration is a   is a huge thing   and I think it's just   going to become more and more prevalent and   it's going to   dictate.   It's going to move towards   a more value for value system   where it is   more transparent about who did what   and to be able to split things up.   You know,   I didn't even talk about the money   aspect of of splits and just how powerful that is.   But I think that did a good job.   You let me know of   of talking about collaboration   and why it's important   and how we're going to   do it more and more in the future.   Welcome to the value for value   histogram.  

You got that?   I had that music there.   This is the Grand Lounge where I think out   some people who helped to support this show   in a monetary format and to doing great things.   And you know, this creates time.   Christine. This takes time.   A lot of energy, a lot of lights   set up here, a lot of,   you know,   stuffing around, trying to figure out all of these   all of the   the audio and technical issues   and things like this.   And so, you know, receiving some value back.   And once again,   for me, it's more about the messages   rather than the actual money.   But the money certainly helps as well.  

So I'm going to jump into   the V for V boosta grams from last week.   I'm pretty sure I called out Chad F   for jumping in and joining us live.   But if I didn't, thank you very much again,   as well as Cole,   who said we are so back and Cole once again   being the voice actor for those quotes there.   The first one that I really want   to read out here is Dees laughs,   and he says, Sick shirt on the cover file,   a thousand sets sent using fountain.   Thank you, Dees laughs.   And he's referring to, of course,   the shirt that I'm wearing right now,   the Podcasting 2.0 certified shirt.  

And I believe to get that   shirt you need to have donated.   I think it was 100, $125 through to the podcasting   to point our podcast index project.   You just need to if you have done that,   just reach out to them and say that.   And I also, you know, you brought up shirt,   so I also have to talk about the Miyamoto's one.   So if you donate   100,000 Satoshis so at this current moment   that is worth 105 ish Australian dollars,   I will send you out a shirt, I'll   and you know,   if you're in the U.S., it's a good chance   I'll deliver it to you personally.   And whether you do that across   any of the shows that we produce,   the mere mortals, mere mortals book reviews   or the value for value show of course   will do that.  

And we we love doing that. So   I keep track of that.   That's through the boosta grams only,   unfortunately not through the streaming,   because it's kind of hard to to get all that.   But yeah, that's just a if you want another shirt,   that's that's where you can do it.   I see Sam Sethi was streaming in a lot.   I also see Adam see 1999 Welcome back 10,000 site   and. All.   Sent using fountain.   Thank you very much Adam that is of course   Adam Curry the godfather   sending that in so I very much   thank you for him   and I also want to give a   shout out to I mentioned Sam Sethi.  

He's was streaming in   through his his own podcast app True fans.   And I just want to give a   shout out to the true fans because   I think they're doing some really good things   there and it's becoming a more fully fleshed out   app, really great on the desktop   and on your on your mobile.   So either of those is great to join in.   And I did see this this guy here, Marty, who   just said good,   and I don't know if this is a boost,   I'm not exactly sure.   I think it's a boost I got once that from that.   Thank you,   Marty, and appreciate   if you could send in at least a hundred so   that can get split up to   all the people who I have in my splits.  

But he's got a really good service there and it's   a great onboarding one.   So if you're   if you're new to all of this   and you like Satoshis,   boost your ground value for value.   Like, I don't understand what's going on.   I'd recommend trying out true fans   because when you're using   his app,   he's got a lot of explainers   that pop up on your screen and say, like,   if you do this action, this is what it means.   And you can get rewarded   from this by getting some satoshis,   which is a portion of Bitcoin.   And I would just highly recommend trying out   true fans.  

I think it's a great service to onboarding.   And if you've got friends who are   you also want to recommend   telling them to go   to a place where they can just earn it   by doing stuff within the app.   And you know, obviously   they're not going to become billionaires   from doing this, but enough to get a feel   for what satoshis are and things like this.   I highly recommend   checking out true fans and giving that out.   So thank you everyone for who   and of course   one for joining me in the   in the live chat and helped out a lot   with getting all of these sorts of things sorted,   especially the audio side of things   which were stuffing me up a little bit.  

So what are some latest developments?   Well, if you listen to the podcasting 2.0   show last week, you would have heard that,   you know, app development, hard app development,   really hard. And   I was just going through,   you know, all of the   different things that you would have to   to try and create to every single person   who comes in with bug testing or complaints   and, you know, your is not working,   this isn't doing this and doing that.   And it's almost like a   thankless task because you're   I came up with the analogy of Sisyphus   rolling the boulder uphill   and the boulder is the app   because it's just never done.  

There's always something   new to add into it, always something to be fixed.   Had a chat recently with Jason Hudgins   from Podcast Guru.   Another great value for value Podcasting 2.0 app   where you can listen to music in there   and support your favourite artists,   which supports splits,   which does streaming, which does boost,   which does chapters, which does, you know, popping.   So you got it instantly updated.   All of these apps are a great service   and they're offering   exciting brand new features.   And I this is just my call out to from that   interview as well   He was he was talking about   like you know, at his job   I've got a backlog of 168 things.  

It's just me working on this app.   It's not making money at this precise moment.   And this is my call up for you at home   for listening in,   whether you be an app developer yourself   or you know, some coding and you want to contribute   in an open source manner.   I know many of these apps are open source, like   a podcast, for example.   If you're   along that sort of lines,   if you're just a casual observer and you like to   to boost in, or if you are perhaps   even a podcast creator,   you know,   you can add these apps in as part of your splits   and help to support their development   and writings, reviews, you know, bugs,   feedback for them,   just even   simple encouragement   collapsed your audience to use their apps   financial support.  

If you use our PayPal link down below   one and I have committed   to sending the PayPal's out   and to help directly   support app developers because none of this   could have occurred.   You know the value for value show Adam   boosting in them, boosting   in streaming in all of these different   people, collaborating, coming together.   None of this would happen without this app   and you know, the core   group of people creating this.   So this is just a shout out for those at home to   to help support them because they're   there's it's a thankless task at times   and I think they deserve   more contribution recognition for   for everything that they're doing.  

And yeah   if you want to check out that conversation   I did with Jason Hudgins,   you'll get a feel for that and you'll know more   about the podcast guru app as well.   So we'll leave it at there for latest developments.   You know, it's worthy of of really reaching out   and helping up your favourite app developer   and letting them know that.   Let's go on to the why Bitcoin aspect of this,   which is the last   portion of the show before the end   where I just talk a little bit about   something that's related to Bitcoin   and why I particularly encourage   using the value value model through it.  

And I'm going to talk   about the number go up phenomena   and you'll see on your screen   now the, the awesome gif that Sven stuff   Uri claims created   and the numbers go up phenomena is in   full effect right now.   You know, we're reaching all time highs.   I mostly   make my arguments for bitcoin   and value for value all through the kind   of philosophical aspects   why decentralisation matters,   why self sovereignty, sovereignty matters, why   having a permissionless place to to be able   to send money back and forth and matters   why privacy matters, all these sorts of things.   But there is no denying that   that the aspect of number go up   makes it makes a big difference,   makes a big difference.  

And I'm going to ask you to consider today   perhaps one of the more base phenomenons   of of human nature, which is greed,   or if you want to put it in   perhaps a neutral light, it's it's   more self-interest,   which I think is is probably maybe a good way   of putting it as well.   And it's a powerful incentive.   Powerful incentive.   So, you know,   even though   this whole episode was about why   why money doesn't matter, I'm   going to flip it around right at the   at the end here   and say, you know, money does matter   and especially when money goes up.   And so every creator here over the last   two years has stuck some sets   because   participate in the value family unit model who has,   you know, had their little stash,   had had some income come in   and who most importantly has held onto it,   that money has doubled, tripled, even quadrupled   from the very bottom.  

If you're talking an Australian dollar times   and I think there is something about that   which is worthy of repeating   and acknowledging, which is if   if you want like the value for value model and   obviously value for value, you can do it through   other mechanisms, you can do it through fiat   if you want, you can do it   through Australian dollars,   you can do it through us,   you can do it through Japanese   yen, you can do it through whatever.   But if you're using it through a digital money   that's on the Internet,   that's native for digital   content creators, which makes sense,   then I think this is a pretty strong argument   in terms of once again, the trend of going.  

It's it's kind of hard to deny and argue   that someone who created a show   you know Ainsley Costello and just lad for example   the show that they did   I'm going to guess   that was for   a five months ago, perhaps even a little bit   more since that time.   Whatever money they have earned from   that has doubled, assuming they held onto it,   that is a pretty strong incentive   because they're going to   tell their friends like,   yeah, not only did   I earn some money, but it doubled on itself.   I didn't have to do anything.   So this is just a little call out here that,   you know, number go up.  

I don't like to focus on it.   I don't think it's the most important thing,   but I think it will have an impact.   And, you know, these   these digital content creators,   they're going to want more of it.   And it's like, okay, well, how can I get paid in   this in this magic Internet money?   And three   for for creating my art, for doing things.   And you're not going to do it through Instagram.   You're not going to do it through TikTok.   You can earn some, you know,   ice cream emojis and and random crap   like that, tokens that they've put in there.   But no,   the place that you're   going to do it is through the,   you know, 15 ish podcast apps.  

I list out a lost a lot of them all the time.   You know   in the just   in this episode true fans pod verse   podcast gallery fountains   really good breezes great cosmetics awesome.   If you want the video side of things,   you can go to three speak if you want   to build no agenda tube for example.   There's plenty of the   different places Cura Costa   and the list go on pod station   if you want to do it in your browser.   So many different places, you can do this directly   through the podcast index website.   That's that's where these people are going to go.   And you know, this is just   another recommendation, another trend saying,   okay, you know,   I think this is worthy   of consideration and looking out for.  

So we're going to come   into our final section here, which is the V   for the section, the value for value.   And this is where you can share some time, talent   and treasure to help make the show better.   Sharing the episode with the digital creator.   I think that's probably   one of the best things,   you know, easiest things that you can do,   whether it be a musician, whether it be a podcast,   whether it be a digital artist,   whether it be a voice actor, you know,   whether it be someone creating   filters, visual effects, all these sorts of things,   you know, send it, send this   episode to him   or send the podcast to him and just say like, Hey,   there's a thing called value for value.  

And it's got some interesting   it's an interesting model   and a way of connecting with the audience and   and being able to monetise at the same time   worth checking out.   And you can also join me live, which is really fun.   I do this 10 a.m.   Australian Eastern Standard Time on a monday.   So that is if you're like Australian Eastern   Standard Time, I don't understand.   It is UTC midnight on a Sunday.   So whatever your time zone   is, the world you know, plus ten for me here   in Australia so plus ten from midnight is 10 a.m.   on a monday.  

If you're a negative you know eight   then that would make it, you know, 4 p.m.   in the afternoon on a Sunday easy fast.   So that is the time that you can do talent,   you know.   Is there anything I can do   to make this show better?   Is there anything audio wise video was   that you'd prefer to do   resources that are similar to the ethos   that overlap with all the things   I'm talking about here?   Do you have any book recommendations for books   that describe trends moving towards   crowdfunding models or peer to peer   or things   that have the value for value ethos or examples of   bands, movies, companies   moving towards this sort of model?  

I would love to know these sorts of things,   so sending in that recommendation   would be awesome.   And then finally, treasure.   I've talked about this a bit.   Use a new podcast app boost in streaming   a portion 15%,   10% goes to the various people   who have helped me out on this show.   You know, the door falls for the pre   and the pre-show music as well as the intro music   call for reading out his voice,   acting chords there, and also   Sven stuff Fury Flames for his awesome gifts   that he's allowed me to use for Chapter eight.   All these sorts of things, you know, if you boost   in portions of this, goes to each of them.  

So really, you know,   boost and streaming it's very much appreciated   into this directly   with the money   in one of those podcasting apps   you can go to the podcast index website   and there's also a PayPal link down below.   Awesome.   We're going to come to the final portion here,   which is where I play a value for value song   and just to help support musicians, to help support   everyone who is, you know,   working in all of these things.   And we're going to use I'm a bit of a sucker   to be honest, for Australians   and for Australian music supporting local,   local in the sense that she's in Perth.  

You know   how many hours four or five hour   flight from Brisbane,   A local, local artist here in Australia   whose name is Abi Muir,   she's got this song called Stockholm   and it's just a banger.   So she's going to take us out and   until next week.   Thank you everyone for joining.  

[00:34:44] Unknown:

My to Could.   Me in the Soul Corridor go to the town.   Just tired of that for me.   I want to stay closer on.   My family so they love me and I'm   chained to your   well meaning.   Bless your heart.   Your soul is the way.   And that's it.   My name, the psychic.   But I'm eliciting this way.   So I'm fine tuning calling   you, me   and me.   I could I see Conor.   Screaming things of this collision.   You're saying I'm over my head.   That I've had inside it?   I But I do it again.   You could live with it and still no way.   I'm in   my search way and it's in my name   and taxing yourself in this way.  

So I'll find the   content need   me and maybe find   I take all the fun funny.   You know, I.   Take all the pain.   Away, the   you send   me and.