Will this new medium be just as revolutionary as radio and podcasting? In Ep#45 we are going to have a look at the current problems in the music industry, case examples of musicians/DJ's using RSS and why everyone gets a part of the money.
Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, McIntosh and Adam Curry for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to Ainsley Costello, Able Kirby & Sir Spencer for letting me play their music. Don't forget to support your favourite musicians!
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Unknown:
The worldof music is changing and it's for the better. Okay. Welcomeeveryone to another value for value episode. My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals podcast. But also this onewhere I dive deeper into the valuefor value model. I look at how this model is going to helpdigital content creators in a waywhich would allow you to get paidand also connect with your audience. Just a reiterationthat I'd do this live on a Wednesdayor on the border point on a Tuesday,Wednesday. So midnight UTC zero. So just plus or minuswherever you are in the worldfrom that on to there.
And yeah, I would loveto have you join me into for one of theselive ones. Now I just want to start this off withjust saying V for V music. It's going tochange the world. So the topic for today'sV for V music. Musiciansare finally getting paid and this is going to bea two parter. So the first portion of this is going to be reallylooking at the general concept. What is V for? V music? Why is it important? And then in the next episode, next week,we'll get into the weeds and some real resourcesfor those who want to really participate in thisand a try out what what this stuff is.
So let'sgo into the top level. What is V for? V music? And basicallyit's a way for musicians to distribute their workusing RSS. And we have already talked about in previous episodeswhy this is powerful, why you would want RSSin your in your feed. So this was episode number 41. What is a podcast? I was really talkingabout it there. And then alsoeven in the one before that episode 40,which was about how RSS can make your feeddecentralised, be self-sovereignpermissionless and allow some valuetransfer going on as well. So we already talkedabout that.
And let'sjust start off with I guess it's like what, what's one of the main problems that's currentlygoing on with music now? All of this I'm kind of usingfrom Second-Hand sources because I am nota musician myself, so I haven't fullygot to experience these, but it seems to be rather unanimous with most of the musiciansthat I've talked with. And it seems to bethat the the system of distributionis kind of I hesitate to use the wordunfair, but it it's very close to that. It it doesn't very muchseem to be an inside a game or it's only suitedto particular people. Only certain peoplecan can kind of win in this industry,much like with the radio or the TV industry.
You hadto have a certain level of knowing of people of, you know, playing the gamesomewhat to speak, and then something likepodcasting came around, which was like, Oh, cool, I can just do thisfrom my own home. You know, I don't have togo into a radio station. I don't have to, you know,appease these bosses. I can just produceexactly what I want. And the, the, the methods,the tools of distribution allow me to do this at such a niche,individual level. And so what we can seenow is that there is this kind of barrier pointfor for musicians, which is, well, you know, maybe they can createtheir own music, but what do they do with itthen?
How do they get that outto people? And the distribution fromthis seems to be you need to put it outon everywhere. And so there is a ridiculous number of streaming platformsdue to be able to do this. And probably the ones thatyou will be most aware of would be things like SoundCloudwould be Spotify. I probablyI would even put YouTube in there as aas a way of distributing music as well. They certainly have theYouTube music app as well. So there's there'sa variety of larger ways. But as we'll go on to a little bit laterwith Ainsley Costello, she has a post where she was talkingabout how she is up on a ridiculous numberof apps of streaming platforms.
And I think she saidthere was 60 plus that she is on,which was even news to me because I didn't knowthat there was there was that many. So basically you can putall your stuff out there, but you have to bevery active in doing this. You know,if you put in your song, you have to put it up on a ridiculousnumber of places to try and get it outonto all of these different various things. So not not super, superhelpful in that regard. And this is in comparisonto something like podcasting where I only have to put myaudio file up in one place and then I can linkto all of these all of these placesto that audio file.
And then it's like, okay,you can check out here, whereas I don't have tomanually go and do that, I can just put itall in place. This is kind of likewe were talking about with RSS,you know, just one, just one placeand one source of truth of of one thingthat I earn and everythingcan point in there. And yeah, I just found it on 60plus streaming services. So that's an insane amountbut that she is on. So I guesswhat is the main difference between thisand maybe something like So that's a problem. Distributionis obviously one problem that's in the musicindustry at the moment.
Another one is thatthere is a, I guess, lack of being able to bein the money yourself. So if we think of somethinglike Napster or MySpace, you could say,okay, well, musicians kind of had a placeto put their music and a lot of peoplecould link to it. Once again,it's not as good as RSS. I personally,I believe, but that you could have that. But once again, how do youget paid from that now? How do you make moneyfrom this? And the current royalty rangefrom what I once again, what I have gatheredfrom the outside, it seems to be somewhere inlike the 10 to 30% range.
If you're a musician and people are playingyour music, you're only getting 10to 30% of what's actually what couldpotentially be coming in, which once againseems kind of insane to me, that it's so low if you're the ones who put all of this togetherthat you only get such a small,small portion of this and which will then getdivided up even further. If you're in a band and now you have to splitthat 10%, what,five, six different ways or that 30%, fiveor six different ways. So the current royalty schemeseems to be rather unfair. And let's just take something like Spotify,which is this is oneI'm reasonably confident.
I know how it works. Spotify does it like this. So they earn money from userspaying a premium thing. So this will be $9 a month and then there's anothertier or two above that. And what they dois they kind of collect all this money and then, you know,a portion of this will get distributed to the musicrights associations, all of these peoplewho they're getting and the bigger stuff from. So this is think like,you know, the mega bands,the Taylor Swift's The Red Hot ChilliPeppers, things like that. A lot of it will goto those record companies and then that will getdistributed up, perhapseven to the artists from there, or it willjust go directly to them.
And so the the amount that you paygets divvied up into all of thesekind of different places. And what happens is the amountthat's remaining left for all of the artists, it gets divvied up basedon the amount of plays. And so those who have a lot a lot of plays,they get more money. So once again,think of the very, very famous,most popular artists. They get a ridiculousamount. Now, what this means isif you have someone who is maybe marginallyor moderately successful, maybe you get,you know, 100,000 people tuning in to musica month. And what how much do youactually get from that?
Well,I believe it's somewhere in the range of 3 to $5per thousand streams. As I've looked into it, this seems to vary widely as well because they do all thesesorts of things based on the countryand whatnot. And I'm going to guessthat it's kind of scurries around the smallerartists as well. So let'sjust say $2 per stream. If youcompared this to something like the advertising modelin podcasting and which for me has been really equivalentto the value for value in terms of the actual amountthat I receive versus how many peoplehave boosted in and how much you golisten to is closer to $20 perthousand.
So this is where it'sreally intriguing. You go, okay,well, is music worth, you know, ten timesless than podcasting or is is podcasting worthten times more in terms of the actualtime it creates? Did takes to create music? I would probably say noin terms of the actual output of how it makespeople feel the value that people get from it. I probably wouldn't haveparticularly said sorry. If anything,I would have said music is a muchmore powerful and medium. But you know, this is alljust going to show. There does seem to be somethinglike a little bit broken with the waythat it's working.
And I think mostly this is dueto things on the layer which is not connected to the actual content itself,but it's all of the things around it. And so what happens iseven if I have a premium Spotify thing I'mlistening to exclusively, you know, artiststhat I really enjoy who are maybe not as mainstream, I'm almost none of my money actuallygoes directly to them. It always it goes to these other artistswho are getting played a lotand downloaded a lot. But it's, you know, my individual personaltastes are not going to to where I thinkthey should be going or where I would want themto go, I suppose.
But because so much ofthis is behind the surface,you have no idea. And so what I wouldjust say is that the kind oflike top level view, there's a lot of problems, but it's notat the technology layer, it's notat the distribution of it. So, for example, it'snot that there's better sound quality on differentapps. It's not thatthere are better playlists necessarily. It's not that there'sbetter algorithms. It's it'skind of like the problem. The problem is,is that the incentives and how thingsare getting distributed and how thingsare getting divvied up.
And it seems to be thatthe smaller artists are getting a pretty shitgo of it and they the amounts or the thingsthat should be happening if they do havea loyal fan base, you know, they're thousandtrue fans. We've heard about this inthe Kevin Kelly article. If you have 2000 truefans, you should be able to makea living from that. And if they're willingto pay, you know, $10 a month, that's 10,000a month that's easily liveable off. And it seems to be thatthose 2000 true fans, there's no easyway for them to do that through musicat the moment.
And what I thinkis going to change that is valuefor value music. So let's let's talkabout that. So basically, what isvalue for value music? Well, it's being able to haveyour music distributed in this manner that I was talking about, where you canjust put it in one place and everythingcan link to that. So this is using RSS and it's being ableto monetise that much like we were talkingabout previously with the boosted gramsand through micropayments, the exact same mechanismyou can put in a lightning wallet and this willthen be able to be a kindof source of truth for people to say, okay, if I want to contributedirectly to my favourite artist,my favourite musician, this is the waywhere I know if I boost in or if I streammicropayments, it will godirectly to them.
So if you want to know more about that, check out the previous two episodes on micropaymentsand on Booster grams. And soI think this is going to change revolutionisethe music industry just from the simplefact of musicians are going to realise,okay, this is actually changing things and this is actually goingto make them more fair for meand I can distribute it in a just simplerand easier manner rather than tryingto put it on 60 streaming services. So I'm going to get into a little bit of the history,I suppose, of this. So because I've beenfollowing this pretty closely for thelast year and a half and I because I think it is going to be probably one of the biggest use cases or thingsthat really will maybe go viral from the wholepodcasting 2.0 ecosystem and micropaymentsand things like this is this abilityto do it with music because there's just something about musicthat people really it transformsand it creates people to do things in a more emotionally charged waythan perhaps a podcast like this. So, so let's just go on to likea I guess you will, one of the first peopleto do this.
So and specificallyI'm talking about you're a musician. You want to put your music up on somewhere, butyou get like a Spotify. It's a kind of shit deal. SoundCloud,you know, Bandcamp, all of these placesthat they're not really, reallyhelping me that much. And so there was twoartists. One was called So Spencer, and one was calledAbel Kirby, and they'reboth podcasters, and they created a bandcalled Abel and The Wolf. And basicallywhat they did is they went throughthe whole process of creating an albumspecifically just to be ableto put it up as a, as a band, as a music specifically designedto be put up on RSS.
Becauseone of the problems is it it's not comingacross super, super easy at the moment. It's not. The whole processtakes a bit of time. And if you're tuning intothis show, you should know likeeverything is of this is runningwith scissors. All of this is really new and it takes a bit of timeto kind of work up into. And so if you want to knowmore about this, go check out episode 36 called a Craft of thisvery show because they created a podcastwhich was showcasing their wholedesign process of how they they went through this. So episode 36 of theof the previous season of season two.
And so what were some ofthe things they did? Well,they created a transcript which would be containingthe lyrics of their song. So you can see, okay,this is showcasing somethingthat you would maybe find in a CD of previous generationsbefore that was the thing album Art, which they usedas episode images. So for each, for each track thatthey had on their album, they would have an artistdesign a, a picture which wouldrepresent that song. And you'reseeing one of those appearing up on yourscreen as we speak. They had splitsfor the artists. So once again, this was somethingI was talking about with, say, in the BoosterGraham's and in the streaming of payments.
You can split things up directly within your feed, so you don't need to have a contract of one persongets all and all the money and then you relyingon them to divvy it up and you don't rely on them. So you need a thirdparty who, who's trusted to be ableto do that. Now, in this case, it'slike it's all written, baked in. If you want to give 20,if you got five bandmates and you just want tosplit it up evenly,you know, 20%, 20%, 20%, if you want to includemore people in on that, you can or less people or one person is doingmore work, you can change thoseand it's all beautiful.
And so that'swhat they did. The money was being splitup and in these various ways,and it was for each individual track as well. So once again, itgets this granular level. It doesn't just have to befor I care. Well,you know, this person worked really hardon this particular song, so we were going to tryand do it as a whole. Of all the money comingin, how should we do that? No, it's like, no,you can get paid directly for the work that you did. So this is really, really cooland I'm going to be playingsome of their music a little bit later onas just a as a teaser for, I suppose, or showcasingof of how this works.
And so yeah,that was kind of one of the first use caseswhere I saw a musician actually creating this and putting it upspecifically just to be used in this manner. There were a couplethat had done this before, but this was probably the first that I saw where they really created itin this way. Now, one of the things that's really prompted meto talk about it on this episode and in the in the next episodeas well is something calledGrand Bull. And so this was createdby Adam Curry, who you should knowwell, well, be well aware of by now. He is the kind ofco-inventor of podcasting, a former MTV veejay,and the guy who's going to spearhead spearheading,along with Dave Jones, the the podcasting2.0 movement of of trying to make podcasting better and once again, check out the episodeI did, I think three or four weeks agocalled Emergenceof podcasting 2.0 then.
So Booster Grand Bold is basically where he highlights songsthat he really enjoys, which have beenput up in this manner. So it has been an artisthas gone, Yep, I'm going to put it upin an RSS feed. I'm going to put in a lightning addresswhich will showcase or will show where peoplecan send money to. And so what he is doingis now he's createda basically a DJ, a radio programwhere he is the DJ and he introduces like, you know,this is Bruce Grand Bowl. He's got all of these jingles and things and then he playssome music, you know,leads up into it.
And he's a professional. He's done this professionallyas a career for many,many a year before becominga full time podcaster. Now was he? So he really knows how to createa good show that he'll leadinto the music, the musical play. And as the musicis playing through some just really,really cool technology, I guess thethe money goes directly. So if people are streaming in, the money goes directlyto the artist then, or if they're boosting in, it goes directlyto the artist, then when he comes backon, it will go to him. Then when he, you know,talks a little bit and then he playsthe next song, it'll go to that,that next artist.
And so basicallyhe's created three showsat this very moment, each of these being roughly about an hour long,and he's playing about ten shows per episode. So we can see, okay,this is really cool because it solvesa couple of things. The discoverabilitycomponent, you know, if he'splaying a show on there, this is how radiohas always, always worked. If you hear a really coolsong on the radio, it's like,Oh man, I want to listen to more of that. I'm going to go outand buy this CD or I'm going to listenor stream and more. And I think this iswhere the madness is going to kick off,because I can really see thisjust expanding as musicians realise,Oh wow, I'm actually getting paid for for peoplelistening to my music because there's people out there like me who havea very much kind of disposition towards, Yes,if I'm listening to something,I want to pay for it.
And so wouldwould I rather spend, you know, $9 a month on Spotifyor would I rather spend $9 a month streamingdirectly to people who I think they deserve it?I'm going to do it my way and I'mgoing to stream in to music that I listen toand I'm going to stream in or boost into showslike Adams, which showcase music and is kind of a wayfor me to discover it. So very, very,very cool on that point. And the thing is, this is,this is all I would say I would say kind of revolutionaryas I was referring to at the start, because he's he's triedthis once before and he never got itoff the ground because it was just too hardwith the record labels, with the right associations,all looking at podcasting and it's like, No, no, you can't do thatbecause we can't see where this money goes.
You know, you get this money,you have to send it to us. And it was justtoo much of a hassle. There was just too many too manybarrier points with with, I suppose, the moneyside of things. And I think that's get solved by the direct peerto peer nature of one, it being peer to peer. So there's no middleman involved,there's no trust needed and to with the functionalityof being able to split things upin various ways, there's there's going to be lesshave the hassle of, oh you didn't send methis mount, you know, you got more than me,this sort of thing. It's like, no, it's allthere, it's all laid out.
And if if you have a problem with that,you should have brought that upas we were typing in or who's going to getwhat amount of split. So I think this willchange things a lot. With that. Before I go on to some ofthe the fundamental point why I think this is really going to work, I just want to givea shout out to Ainsley and a couple of stats that we've just seen across these variousdifferent shows. So I've got a tweetfrom her here. Once again,this will be appearing up on your screenas we speak. And so Ainsley Costello,she's a young musician in the United States.
I'm not exactly surewhere she is from. I think probably the Nashville area or she isshe lives in the Nashville area at the moment. And so she was justposting on July 25th. So she had posted upher music on Wave Lake and it kind of one of her songs calledCherry on Top, really. It got people intoto like, Oh, wow, this is this is a great song. I want to play more of it. And so she saidfor five days on on that she got 180,372 SATs,which was equal to about 52 U.S. dollars and onfor the whole of April 20, 23 on 60 plus streamingservices, she got $22. So we can even seejust from that little example there.
Okay,she got double roughly in in these lightningpayments from people directly streaming toher and boosting to her. Yeah,she got a lot lot more. Now the funny thing is,you know this was what, three weeks ago. It's basically ten nextthat amount. So I know she's passedthe 1 million sets range and I'mcertainly sure that that other numberof the 60 plus streaming services hasn't ten. So just for her she actually had a hit song and people loved itand they boosted in and they streamed in and it was a ridiculousamount more than she would have got just from being on all ofthese other platforms where they dotake their cut and where it isn'tdistributed evenly and fairlybased on people and how much they enjoythat music.
And so once again, this is just getting to the pointwhere I think like V for V music, someone like herwhere she has something like thathappen, she's going to she's going to tell her friends about itlike she's going to she's going to be like,Wow, this is something completely differentcompared to the grinding away that I've been doingon all of these other platforms. So that was just aone little use case there. And thenI want to go on to some stats that AdamCurry himself published, which was justwhat was happening from the Bristol Grand Bowl.
And so he says, here'swhat podcasting 2.0 has donefor value for value music. On just threeepisodes of music and bowl over 4 million setsand to the artists. And then he'sgot a breakdown here of how this hasbeen done by apps. And we can see that there was through Boucher like customand accurate cost offence and podcast index pod friend pod verseand the split kit. So this has all gonedirectly to artists, which is equalto close to 1,200 USD. So that's a fair bitin Australian dollars as well. It'd be like 600, 1700,something like that. So we can see.
Okay, there's doesn't use casefor this and it's not just middling money. That was what, 30, you know, roughly 30tracks being distributed. And what's that 1200. So that's like,you know, 40 bucks a song. You know, imagine if you you had your songget played once on the radio andyou got 40 bucks for it like that. That would be prettydamn good. And there's moresome more complexities coming up withwith all of these things. And I will definitely be talking about thatin the next episode because there is quitea few complex things, but I think this isall just showcasing that.
Yeah, value forvalue music there is a need for itand one for it and then drive for itand people are willing to pay to pay for it. And I think artistsare going to be the beneficiary of thisbecause they have been some of the oneswho've been screwed out of I think just in a this is yet,you know what I would say it's an an unfair system. And so I think this isa more fair one for sure. BeforeI get into my my final fundamental points,why I think this is really going to changeand how this kind of relatesto podcasting as well. I did just want to play the Cherry on top songfrom Aynsley Costello, and this will also bean example of how how we can dovalue for value music even on this very show,on this very episode.
So I'm going to letAinsley take it away and I'll be right back soon.
[00:26:16] Unknown:
Oh no. Oh, does. Guys, I know that you. Know thatI knew about you play, but you had to go toevery. One of my attentionthat you had and one. But I bet you're wonderingwhy killing all nine doesn't hurt my back likeyou thought it was okay for meto lie, to get good. You put food on the table, leave it out. Try. She loved me. I said this. Hear what she said. I'm sorry. I know that if I did,I would say Go to the. Corner of the room. Because I know that youare used to having it all. Given back to. You. And though it might beshelved in the same cry like a little boy might deservea third of doses of COVID, I don't feel the pain.
When I first met your mother,I remember. Right. Well, she'll be me. Some wine. Sorry, I'm dry. I'll. I'll sa. I'll. I'll will. Honey,I know that all is well. Or maybe I don't know, but I have to tell you. See, the way can handle this placeat the end of the day. But you may,but I'll leave it out. Right. Well I've all get together reaction that you want differentareas of your life. Put it out right. Oh shit. I want your reaction. This one. I'm sorry. I'm down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got
[00:29:03] Unknown:
all right, pumps. Thank you, Ainsley,for allowing me to play that on this show. Let's get into the fundamentalpoint before I get onto thefinal booster gram lounge. So the value of a valuesystem works on goodwill. I think this is somethingthat I've established kind of rightfrom the start. You know, it'sgoodwill on my part to put this up on for freethis, this episode,this everything that I do, you know, you never haveto pay for it. I'm always going to bethe one giving youthe value straight up. And that's alwayshow it's going to work. And I think we can take this furtherwhere it's like, you know, I'm now relying on your goodwill to your conscience to say, Did I enjoy thisvalue for value?
So did I enjoy this valuefor value music? And I ask that you just send it back into meand I hope that you do that now. I think this is going to requiresome fundamental changes and maybe the waypeople view things. So artists, for example, they're going to haveto give up complete controlover their music when they put it up onsome of these services. On on RSS, you're kind of just releasing itout to the wild. It's now like if people want to play it on a radio show,they're going to do that. If they want to remix it,they're going to do this. The, you know,it is kind of just like a little bit of looseningof the reins of no control of just likehere have at it now.
I think a lot of peopleare keen for this and will do this anyway because, you know,the unknown undiscovered. And when you're like that,you just want anyone to play it or hear itin any manner whatsoever. So there is a kind of goodwill on their part where it's like, okay, I'm just going to put this upand see what happens. There is somewhatof an expectation that if you're a podcasterand your creating a DJ radio showlike this, like Adam Corey was doing with Boostto Grand Bull that you putin the correct split or at least put in a split of some sort so that the artist, you'renot just taking their musicand just playing it there is an expectation.
It's not I don't thinkit will ever be enforced. Know, maybe we'll talk more about thatin the complexities lateron in the next episode. But there isat the very least, an expectationthat that will happen. There's an expectation that the listenerswill give back and that they will do that. Now, not everyoneis going to do that. So of course notevery podcaster is going to put itin the split for that for the musicthat they're playing. But for the most part, for the most part, you wouldyou would expect this. I think everyone isincluded as well. This is anotherfundamental point where just through the nature ofof how you can you can send moneyin this way using the LightningNetwork with Bitcoin and potentiallywith others in the future.
It doesn't particularlyhave to be this, but at the very momentit is, everyone can get includedso the bandmates, they can be put in split. If you have someone who you know, the studiowhich you recorded at, they can beput in the split. You can have the peoplewho are financing you whilst you're in a retreatand creating an album. They can beput in the split app. Developers can get a percentage forgiving a great experience. So I think it bypassesa lot of entrenched middlementhat you had already seen in the music industry,and it's incentivising everyoneto to do the right thing.
Everyonegets a piece of the pie by creating somethingbetter. And I think what we're going to seeis we're going to see music apps do somethingthat will look like a music app and willbe only just for music. I think these thingswill start to pop up in the future and we're already kind ofstarting to see some, but none that are really,really distinct as of yet because as I justmentioned, most of the ways that peopleare doing it at the moment is viaa podcasting app, and that's just not the best experiencefor playing music. And it would be betterto have a music app much like you have YouTube music or Spotifyor any of the other ones which are more suiteddirectly for the music experiencebecause it does matter.
The experience. So I think this is all going to change because everyone can geta cut, can get a split. And then finally, evenjust going back to the second episode of the season, which was talkingabout the four different properties, I think this satisfiesall of them. So it's one you know,it's decentralised. You can put up your music in one place,but anyone can access that from anywhere. So this is usingthe RSS feed. So if I just put up mymusic in this one place, I don't have to now go andput it up in a ridiculous number of places.
And on the selfsovereignty aspect, you know,I can own my own music and this ispretty important. You need to be ableto own your own music to be able to put itup into it like this so that it satisfiesthat permissionless. You know, I don't have to askSpotify to put my music up if it containsnaughty words, if it contains this,if it deals with themes which are perhaps taboo,you know, once again, you don't have to beg anyone to be ableto put your music up or for them to playor for even just outside influencesto come in and say, you know, your style.
I think it would be better if you started singing about thingswhich are more suited to a demographic,you know, couple of years a decade younger than youand all these sorts of things. I think I think you can bypassa lot of that if you if you want to bea more pure creative and put it up in a ina place just where it is, you don't have to askpermission. You don't have to bend to the music industry'swhims and wills and kind of sell your soul. And then finally,the value transfer, of course, is when you're doing it through RSS,you are doing it through thisestablished way.
I think it is going tomake a big, big difference on that aspect. So yeah, wholet me go for the music. I hope I have donea reasonable job of explaining what it isand why it's important and why I think it'srather revolutionary. So let'sget into the boosta gram lounge this weekand then we'll yeah, we'll have a couple of more tipsand things like that. So let'stake it away. Adam Curry
[00:35:40] Unknown:
Welcometo the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Alrighty, the BoostaGram Lounge, here we go. So pro tip number one, it's important to checkyou'll have Booster Grams if you checkedin last week. You'll see that I misseda couple that were there. So apologiesfor Who was that? Robert Suzuki and China for only doing thatat the end this week. I am reasonably sure that there's no live onescome in. So thank youfor those two though. So we did get three boostsfrom this last week. So I'm just goingto read these out and I'm going to try it in the lowest to the highest. So we've got CoachMcCormack here coming in.
I feel like I caughta wave with v4v this week. Thanks for the shout out,bro. New World Order. So I was going to talkabout him, but I might have actuallymissed that in my notes. Yeah, sorry I did. So Ainsley had a chatwith Coach McCormickon this show, America Plus I think it was a really great interviewbecause one the age level. So a reasonably closecalls, actuallya pretty good interview. All of the first timeI've heard him really doing an interview. And I think he absolutelynailed it. He knows a lotabout value for value. He knows a lot about the creative aspectbecause he himself is kind of more of like a filmmaker, artist,that type of thing.
And yeah, I just think that wasa great interview. So if you want to knowmore about Ainsley Costelloand just the the experience she hadwith V for V music, I would recommend checkingout his show in that. So you did Cat IndeedCatch a Wave and it's awesome to see that. So that was five 492 sent using fountainthat is his favourite number. Thank you. Cool. We've got another one herefrom Macintosh. Boost, boost, Boost. One quick note, I sought my boostapp by episode when I get boostfrom more than one episode and I think you mentionedthat as a presentation. I do like Kohl's idea of smallest to largestbuild the tension.
MacintoshSo thank you very much. Macintosh. Then you add a little oneemoji in there as well, and that was 10,309 setsand using fence and yeah, this is probably goingto be I'm really interested to see how this would be in the futurebecause at the moment, from all the showsthat I've seen, it very much does seem thatpeople are boosting in for the latest. By and large, I'm really keen to see,you know, say Joe Rogan got onto podcasting to follow. Would there be peopleboosting in old shows? Old ones? And what I have noticedis when I was doing this with podcasting 2.0 and I was catching up and I was boosting oldepisodes, they themselvesdidn't really get it as much because I wasboosting something from, you know, months agothat you're talking about months ago.
So it does make itof harder like that. So I think it is going tobe very much based around the latest episodes,and that's probably just how it will work. I think that's how the value for value modelparticularly works. But we'll have to see. And this can perhapseven be a maybe a detrimentto music, which is unless you're constantlyputting out new music, maybe you don't getsome of the the royaltiesbecause people are like, Oh, I've listened tothis show 500 times. This episode, this music500 times before. I'm not going to payfor this one. I think that can beovercome.
But yeah, it's is somethingto look out for, for sure. And yeah, I will mentionthat in the future. Thank you. I, I've alwaysjust read him out kind of willy nilly to be honest. And then finally coming inThe Godfather himself at Carrie and his 1999in his fountain handle. I'm not sure why. This is anothergreat episode explaining the Valley Value model exclamationmark, 25,000 SATs and musicfountain. We thank you very much,Adam. And once again,the Bridge to Grand Bowl. I would really recommendpeople checking out that show Macintosh also has onecalled Generation Bitcoin.
If you want to know moreabout the Bitcoin aspect and that boosterGrand Bowl, it's it'sa really good show. It's worth checking outeven if you have no interest in the sendingof money back and forth of supporting artistsor anything. It's worth it just in terms ofbeing a radio show itself. He's he's a pro. He'sreally, really good at it. And there'sa couple of more shows cropping up and I'll maybetry and get to them in the nextweek's episode. So that is the bestgremlins for this week. I really, reallythank you. Thank you,everyone who sent that in. I was doing a coupleof like quick calculations and I thinkI need to get around.
I thinkit was probably about 500,000 sets to overthe course of this year to kind of make up how much it coststo host the show. So I would really love toto try and get to that. So this is a huge boostto getting that. So thank you. Thank you very muchfor the the three people who didthat and everyone who was extremely in as well, because I did see somestreams coming in. Let's jump into some tipsand I'm going to say from this week,the tip is obviously going to be relatedto value for value music. A lot of it is how you present itto musicians as well. I saw a bit of chatteron the podcast index and it evangelisingis not the way to go about this kindof going out to people in their face about it.
And it's it's hard because you can beenthusiastic about a thing, obviously,like I am for podcasting and for forvalue, for value music, but it's best not to justshove it in their face. And I've found that for mepersonally, asking about the problemsand have fixed them for myself via podcastingtwo point out, has beenthe best way to do it. And then if they area musician themselves, you know, putting like a little cheeky righthook at the end of, Oh, and by the way, there'sa music version of this is probably the best wayof going about it. So even though it's notparticularly fun, I thinkfocusing on the problems and then highlightinga solution of something that,you know, that works, you, I think that that worksa lot better than trying to dive right in and be like,Have you tried this thing?
Put your music app on hereand this will happen and it's awesomebecause of these, you know,because it's decentralised and self-sovereignand you know, a lot of peoplejust don't care about it. And a lot of people, there's justso many different steps to, to get into it,you know, what is an RSS feed,what is Bitcoin, what are micropayments,what is the problem? It's easierjust to start with what I think they, they know as a problemand what they've experiencedthemselves. And honestly, that's the bestway that I've found of of going about thisand in highlighting these sorts of things.
So yeah, just a little pro tip that evangelisingno one really enjoys it and yet even though you'reenthusiastic about it, just,just be mindful of howyou are coming across because I certainly havebeen guilty in the past of Yeah, yeah. You know, like testing it outfor sure and telling peopleabout things but it, it doesn't,it doesn't always work and sometimes it doesn'tcome across that great. So that is my tipfor this week. App or service highlight. I've purposely stayed awayfrom a lot of linkages to things how you can exactly do this asa musician, as a listener.
So I will I'll give justa broad one here, which is probably like a basic goodstop point is wave like so w i v l.a k e so if you go to wavelike dot com, I think they've gotsome pretty just it's it's an easy experience for those who want to now nowknow more about the all sides of the equationbecause it is useful to be able to listen toand it's also useful to be able to sign upif you are a musician. And so basically likeif you go to the website, turn up the valuefor your biggest fans. We envision a new online world where creatorsand listeners can freely transact with one anotherin an open ecosystem so relatively easy.
And then it's got some talking abouthow it's easy publishing,universal distribution and what it's all built on, which is likein payments. And they're very,very easy. If you go to the website, there's a play buttonright down the bottom so you can start listening to something immediately. And if you're a musician, you can start goingto the about section and learningmore there. So that's probablyjust the the easiest way at the momentfor just beginning aspect. Next week we'll get into the more complexthings and, and kind of how a lot of this stuffworks under the hood.
So yeah, we've, we've explored thatand a lot of the concepts. Next weekI'll just be able to refer to and saycheck out this episode. So that is my appand service highlight. Let's finish off with some value for valueas usual, I give 15% of each episodeto particular people in addition to the 5%that is going to some developers. So 5% goes to the podcastIntex slash fountain. And this week I'm going to give 5%to the three people who I'm goingto play music for. So I've already playedAinsley's song and I'm also going to playthe song Making Beans from Abeland the Wolf.
And I'll give 5% to Spencer and5% to Abel Kerby for this. These once again, I'm tryingto just highlight here how music it's it'sgot this ineffable quality to it. It's it'ssomething passionate. It's something that peoplereally care about and are willingto spend a lot of time and money and justinvestment of things into. And, you know,I don't have the access to a lot of the complexthings which I could do thisin a better way. So when you are listening to just their music,all of the money goes directly to them. So instead I'm just going to have to dothis kind of basic way.
And the reason I can do this is once again,the good will. I know assessments areand Albuquerque, I've talked to thembefore. I've asked them before to domusic, and I have indeed played musicon one of my shows. So it just soso I've got some credits. I was talkingabout this probably a year ago, I think in in an episode which I titled Decentralised Musicon the memorial. So I'll, I'll Yeah. Include a link to thatsomewhere and the Yeah. Just,just the aspect of okay, I know these people,I talk to Ainsley as well, I was like you know, doyou mind if I play a song? I want to be able to do itin the complete correct way.
And she's just like, Yeah,yeah, please, please do. So 5% of this is goingto her to suspense and to applicablefor the 15%. Once again, a lot of this relieson kind of the goodwill of thinking that, okay,the pie is going to grow. It's it'snot a zero sum game. People love these things. The more people know aboutit, the better it gets. So, yeah, until next week we will be talking moreabout the complexities and maybe some of the problemswhich will be coming up and some of the solutions to those problems as well. But until then,I really just want to thank you for joining mefor another episode, the Value for Value Show.
And I'm going to let SirSpencer and Able Kirby take it away with theirband Able and The Wolf. And thesong is Making Beans and.
[00:47:23] Unknown:
I can't Sit Still because it's so Will. They're talking to me, but I can't know what itmeans. It's hard to pay attentionwhen you're busy making things upstairs. I'm busy making big and I'm staff react fine,you know what I mean? And these peoplecome to see you and that's the part. Some moreor it's a better. Way is it stood there and they're here and and. And. Now I know I live in a hall. In a tree scalp of me on screen. I mean, all these people sure were nice to mewhen they dragged. Me downDolly on the stage at all. Well, no, I know whereAnon calls me. They just make it big and I'm very fine,you know what I mean?
And allthese people come up and it's their first concert still.
The worldof music is changing and it's for the better. Okay. Welcomeeveryone to another value for value episode. My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals podcast. But also this onewhere I dive deeper into the valuefor value model. I look at how this model is going to helpdigital content creators in a waywhich would allow you to get paidand also connect with your audience. Just a reiterationthat I'd do this live on a Wednesdayor on the border point on a Tuesday,Wednesday. So midnight UTC zero. So just plus or minuswherever you are in the worldfrom that on to there.
And yeah, I would loveto have you join me into for one of theselive ones. Now I just want to start this off withjust saying V for V music. It's going tochange the world. So the topic for today'sV for V music. Musiciansare finally getting paid and this is going to bea two parter. So the first portion of this is going to be reallylooking at the general concept. What is V for? V music? Why is it important? And then in the next episode, next week,we'll get into the weeds and some real resourcesfor those who want to really participate in thisand a try out what what this stuff is.
So let'sgo into the top level. What is V for? V music? And basicallyit's a way for musicians to distribute their workusing RSS. And we have already talked about in previous episodeswhy this is powerful, why you would want RSSin your in your feed. So this was episode number 41. What is a podcast? I was really talkingabout it there. And then alsoeven in the one before that episode 40,which was about how RSS can make your feeddecentralised, be self-sovereignpermissionless and allow some valuetransfer going on as well. So we already talkedabout that.
And let'sjust start off with I guess it's like what, what's one of the main problems that's currentlygoing on with music now? All of this I'm kind of usingfrom Second-Hand sources because I am nota musician myself, so I haven't fullygot to experience these, but it seems to be rather unanimous with most of the musiciansthat I've talked with. And it seems to bethat the the system of distributionis kind of I hesitate to use the wordunfair, but it it's very close to that. It it doesn't very muchseem to be an inside a game or it's only suitedto particular people. Only certain peoplecan can kind of win in this industry,much like with the radio or the TV industry.
You hadto have a certain level of knowing of people of, you know, playing the gamesomewhat to speak, and then something likepodcasting came around, which was like, Oh, cool, I can just do thisfrom my own home. You know, I don't have togo into a radio station. I don't have to, you know,appease these bosses. I can just produceexactly what I want. And the, the, the methods,the tools of distribution allow me to do this at such a niche,individual level. And so what we can seenow is that there is this kind of barrier pointfor for musicians, which is, well, you know, maybe they can createtheir own music, but what do they do with itthen?
How do they get that outto people? And the distribution fromthis seems to be you need to put it outon everywhere. And so there is a ridiculous number of streaming platformsdue to be able to do this. And probably the ones thatyou will be most aware of would be things like SoundCloudwould be Spotify. I probablyI would even put YouTube in there as aas a way of distributing music as well. They certainly have theYouTube music app as well. So there's there'sa variety of larger ways. But as we'll go on to a little bit laterwith Ainsley Costello, she has a post where she was talkingabout how she is up on a ridiculous numberof apps of streaming platforms.
And I think she saidthere was 60 plus that she is on,which was even news to me because I didn't knowthat there was there was that many. So basically you can putall your stuff out there, but you have to bevery active in doing this. You know,if you put in your song, you have to put it up on a ridiculousnumber of places to try and get it outonto all of these different various things. So not not super, superhelpful in that regard. And this is in comparisonto something like podcasting where I only have to put myaudio file up in one place and then I can linkto all of these all of these placesto that audio file.
And then it's like, okay,you can check out here, whereas I don't have tomanually go and do that, I can just put itall in place. This is kind of likewe were talking about with RSS,you know, just one, just one placeand one source of truth of of one thingthat I earn and everythingcan point in there. And yeah, I just found it on 60plus streaming services. So that's an insane amountbut that she is on. So I guesswhat is the main difference between thisand maybe something like So that's a problem. Distributionis obviously one problem that's in the musicindustry at the moment.
Another one is thatthere is a, I guess, lack of being able to bein the money yourself. So if we think of somethinglike Napster or MySpace, you could say,okay, well, musicians kind of had a placeto put their music and a lot of peoplecould link to it. Once again,it's not as good as RSS. I personally,I believe, but that you could have that. But once again, how do youget paid from that now? How do you make moneyfrom this? And the current royalty rangefrom what I once again, what I have gatheredfrom the outside, it seems to be somewhere inlike the 10 to 30% range.
If you're a musician and people are playingyour music, you're only getting 10to 30% of what's actually what couldpotentially be coming in, which once againseems kind of insane to me, that it's so low if you're the ones who put all of this togetherthat you only get such a small,small portion of this and which will then getdivided up even further. If you're in a band and now you have to splitthat 10%, what,five, six different ways or that 30%, fiveor six different ways. So the current royalty schemeseems to be rather unfair. And let's just take something like Spotify,which is this is oneI'm reasonably confident.
I know how it works. Spotify does it like this. So they earn money from userspaying a premium thing. So this will be $9 a month and then there's anothertier or two above that. And what they dois they kind of collect all this money and then, you know,a portion of this will get distributed to the musicrights associations, all of these peoplewho they're getting and the bigger stuff from. So this is think like,you know, the mega bands,the Taylor Swift's The Red Hot ChilliPeppers, things like that. A lot of it will goto those record companies and then that will getdistributed up, perhapseven to the artists from there, or it willjust go directly to them.
And so the the amount that you paygets divvied up into all of thesekind of different places. And what happens is the amountthat's remaining left for all of the artists, it gets divvied up basedon the amount of plays. And so those who have a lot a lot of plays,they get more money. So once again,think of the very, very famous,most popular artists. They get a ridiculousamount. Now, what this means isif you have someone who is maybe marginallyor moderately successful, maybe you get,you know, 100,000 people tuning in to musica month. And what how much do youactually get from that?
Well,I believe it's somewhere in the range of 3 to $5per thousand streams. As I've looked into it, this seems to vary widely as well because they do all thesesorts of things based on the countryand whatnot. And I'm going to guessthat it's kind of scurries around the smallerartists as well. So let'sjust say $2 per stream. If youcompared this to something like the advertising modelin podcasting and which for me has been really equivalentto the value for value in terms of the actual amountthat I receive versus how many peoplehave boosted in and how much you golisten to is closer to $20 perthousand.
So this is where it'sreally intriguing. You go, okay,well, is music worth, you know, ten timesless than podcasting or is is podcasting worthten times more in terms of the actualtime it creates? Did takes to create music? I would probably say noin terms of the actual output of how it makespeople feel the value that people get from it. I probably wouldn't haveparticularly said sorry. If anything,I would have said music is a muchmore powerful and medium. But you know, this is alljust going to show. There does seem to be somethinglike a little bit broken with the waythat it's working.
And I think mostly this is dueto things on the layer which is not connected to the actual content itself,but it's all of the things around it. And so what happens iseven if I have a premium Spotify thing I'mlistening to exclusively, you know, artiststhat I really enjoy who are maybe not as mainstream, I'm almost none of my money actuallygoes directly to them. It always it goes to these other artistswho are getting played a lotand downloaded a lot. But it's, you know, my individual personaltastes are not going to to where I thinkthey should be going or where I would want themto go, I suppose.
But because so much ofthis is behind the surface,you have no idea. And so what I wouldjust say is that the kind oflike top level view, there's a lot of problems, but it's notat the technology layer, it's notat the distribution of it. So, for example, it'snot that there's better sound quality on differentapps. It's not thatthere are better playlists necessarily. It's not that there'sbetter algorithms. It's it'skind of like the problem. The problem is,is that the incentives and how thingsare getting distributed and how thingsare getting divvied up.
And it seems to be thatthe smaller artists are getting a pretty shitgo of it and they the amounts or the thingsthat should be happening if they do havea loyal fan base, you know, they're thousandtrue fans. We've heard about this inthe Kevin Kelly article. If you have 2000 truefans, you should be able to makea living from that. And if they're willingto pay, you know, $10 a month, that's 10,000a month that's easily liveable off. And it seems to be thatthose 2000 true fans, there's no easyway for them to do that through musicat the moment.
And what I thinkis going to change that is valuefor value music. So let's let's talkabout that. So basically, what isvalue for value music? Well, it's being able to haveyour music distributed in this manner that I was talking about, where you canjust put it in one place and everythingcan link to that. So this is using RSS and it's being ableto monetise that much like we were talkingabout previously with the boosted gramsand through micropayments, the exact same mechanismyou can put in a lightning wallet and this willthen be able to be a kindof source of truth for people to say, okay, if I want to contributedirectly to my favourite artist,my favourite musician, this is the waywhere I know if I boost in or if I streammicropayments, it will godirectly to them.
So if you want to know more about that, check out the previous two episodes on micropaymentsand on Booster grams. And soI think this is going to change revolutionisethe music industry just from the simplefact of musicians are going to realise,okay, this is actually changing things and this is actually goingto make them more fair for meand I can distribute it in a just simplerand easier manner rather than tryingto put it on 60 streaming services. So I'm going to get into a little bit of the history,I suppose, of this. So because I've beenfollowing this pretty closely for thelast year and a half and I because I think it is going to be probably one of the biggest use cases or thingsthat really will maybe go viral from the wholepodcasting 2.0 ecosystem and micropaymentsand things like this is this abilityto do it with music because there's just something about musicthat people really it transformsand it creates people to do things in a more emotionally charged waythan perhaps a podcast like this. So, so let's just go on to likea I guess you will, one of the first peopleto do this.
So and specificallyI'm talking about you're a musician. You want to put your music up on somewhere, butyou get like a Spotify. It's a kind of shit deal. SoundCloud,you know, Bandcamp, all of these placesthat they're not really, reallyhelping me that much. And so there was twoartists. One was called So Spencer, and one was calledAbel Kirby, and they'reboth podcasters, and they created a bandcalled Abel and The Wolf. And basicallywhat they did is they went throughthe whole process of creating an albumspecifically just to be ableto put it up as a, as a band, as a music specifically designedto be put up on RSS.
Becauseone of the problems is it it's not comingacross super, super easy at the moment. It's not. The whole processtakes a bit of time. And if you're tuning intothis show, you should know likeeverything is of this is runningwith scissors. All of this is really new and it takes a bit of timeto kind of work up into. And so if you want to knowmore about this, go check out episode 36 called a Craft of thisvery show because they created a podcastwhich was showcasing their wholedesign process of how they they went through this. So episode 36 of theof the previous season of season two.
And so what were some ofthe things they did? Well,they created a transcript which would be containingthe lyrics of their song. So you can see, okay,this is showcasing somethingthat you would maybe find in a CD of previous generationsbefore that was the thing album Art, which they usedas episode images. So for each, for each track thatthey had on their album, they would have an artistdesign a, a picture which wouldrepresent that song. And you'reseeing one of those appearing up on yourscreen as we speak. They had splitsfor the artists. So once again, this was somethingI was talking about with, say, in the BoosterGraham's and in the streaming of payments.
You can split things up directly within your feed, so you don't need to have a contract of one persongets all and all the money and then you relyingon them to divvy it up and you don't rely on them. So you need a thirdparty who, who's trusted to be ableto do that. Now, in this case, it'slike it's all written, baked in. If you want to give 20,if you got five bandmates and you just want tosplit it up evenly,you know, 20%, 20%, 20%, if you want to includemore people in on that, you can or less people or one person is doingmore work, you can change thoseand it's all beautiful.
And so that'swhat they did. The money was being splitup and in these various ways,and it was for each individual track as well. So once again, itgets this granular level. It doesn't just have to befor I care. Well,you know, this person worked really hardon this particular song, so we were going to tryand do it as a whole. Of all the money comingin, how should we do that? No, it's like, no,you can get paid directly for the work that you did. So this is really, really cooland I'm going to be playingsome of their music a little bit later onas just a as a teaser for, I suppose, or showcasingof of how this works.
And so yeah,that was kind of one of the first use caseswhere I saw a musician actually creating this and putting it upspecifically just to be used in this manner. There were a couplethat had done this before, but this was probably the first that I saw where they really created itin this way. Now, one of the things that's really prompted meto talk about it on this episode and in the in the next episodeas well is something calledGrand Bull. And so this was createdby Adam Curry, who you should knowwell, well, be well aware of by now. He is the kind ofco-inventor of podcasting, a former MTV veejay,and the guy who's going to spearhead spearheading,along with Dave Jones, the the podcasting2.0 movement of of trying to make podcasting better and once again, check out the episodeI did, I think three or four weeks agocalled Emergenceof podcasting 2.0 then.
So Booster Grand Bold is basically where he highlights songsthat he really enjoys, which have beenput up in this manner. So it has been an artisthas gone, Yep, I'm going to put it upin an RSS feed. I'm going to put in a lightning addresswhich will showcase or will show where peoplecan send money to. And so what he is doingis now he's createda basically a DJ, a radio programwhere he is the DJ and he introduces like, you know,this is Bruce Grand Bowl. He's got all of these jingles and things and then he playssome music, you know,leads up into it.
And he's a professional. He's done this professionallyas a career for many,many a year before becominga full time podcaster. Now was he? So he really knows how to createa good show that he'll leadinto the music, the musical play. And as the musicis playing through some just really,really cool technology, I guess thethe money goes directly. So if people are streaming in, the money goes directlyto the artist then, or if they're boosting in, it goes directlyto the artist, then when he comes backon, it will go to him. Then when he, you know,talks a little bit and then he playsthe next song, it'll go to that,that next artist.
And so basicallyhe's created three showsat this very moment, each of these being roughly about an hour long,and he's playing about ten shows per episode. So we can see, okay,this is really cool because it solvesa couple of things. The discoverabilitycomponent, you know, if he'splaying a show on there, this is how radiohas always, always worked. If you hear a really coolsong on the radio, it's like,Oh man, I want to listen to more of that. I'm going to go outand buy this CD or I'm going to listenor stream and more. And I think this iswhere the madness is going to kick off,because I can really see thisjust expanding as musicians realise,Oh wow, I'm actually getting paid for for peoplelistening to my music because there's people out there like me who havea very much kind of disposition towards, Yes,if I'm listening to something,I want to pay for it.
And so wouldwould I rather spend, you know, $9 a month on Spotifyor would I rather spend $9 a month streamingdirectly to people who I think they deserve it?I'm going to do it my way and I'mgoing to stream in to music that I listen toand I'm going to stream in or boost into showslike Adams, which showcase music and is kind of a wayfor me to discover it. So very, very,very cool on that point. And the thing is, this is,this is all I would say I would say kind of revolutionaryas I was referring to at the start, because he's he's triedthis once before and he never got itoff the ground because it was just too hardwith the record labels, with the right associations,all looking at podcasting and it's like, No, no, you can't do thatbecause we can't see where this money goes.
You know, you get this money,you have to send it to us. And it was justtoo much of a hassle. There was just too many too manybarrier points with with, I suppose, the moneyside of things. And I think that's get solved by the direct peerto peer nature of one, it being peer to peer. So there's no middleman involved,there's no trust needed and to with the functionalityof being able to split things upin various ways, there's there's going to be lesshave the hassle of, oh you didn't send methis mount, you know, you got more than me,this sort of thing. It's like, no, it's allthere, it's all laid out.
And if if you have a problem with that,you should have brought that upas we were typing in or who's going to getwhat amount of split. So I think this willchange things a lot. With that. Before I go on to some ofthe the fundamental point why I think this is really going to work, I just want to givea shout out to Ainsley and a couple of stats that we've just seen across these variousdifferent shows. So I've got a tweetfrom her here. Once again,this will be appearing up on your screenas we speak. And so Ainsley Costello,she's a young musician in the United States.
I'm not exactly surewhere she is from. I think probably the Nashville area or she isshe lives in the Nashville area at the moment. And so she was justposting on July 25th. So she had posted upher music on Wave Lake and it kind of one of her songs calledCherry on Top, really. It got people intoto like, Oh, wow, this is this is a great song. I want to play more of it. And so she saidfor five days on on that she got 180,372 SATs,which was equal to about 52 U.S. dollars and onfor the whole of April 20, 23 on 60 plus streamingservices, she got $22. So we can even seejust from that little example there.
Okay,she got double roughly in in these lightningpayments from people directly streaming toher and boosting to her. Yeah,she got a lot lot more. Now the funny thing is,you know this was what, three weeks ago. It's basically ten nextthat amount. So I know she's passedthe 1 million sets range and I'mcertainly sure that that other numberof the 60 plus streaming services hasn't ten. So just for her she actually had a hit song and people loved itand they boosted in and they streamed in and it was a ridiculousamount more than she would have got just from being on all ofthese other platforms where they dotake their cut and where it isn'tdistributed evenly and fairlybased on people and how much they enjoythat music.
And so once again, this is just getting to the pointwhere I think like V for V music, someone like herwhere she has something like thathappen, she's going to she's going to tell her friends about itlike she's going to she's going to be like,Wow, this is something completely differentcompared to the grinding away that I've been doingon all of these other platforms. So that was just aone little use case there. And thenI want to go on to some stats that AdamCurry himself published, which was justwhat was happening from the Bristol Grand Bowl.
And so he says, here'swhat podcasting 2.0 has donefor value for value music. On just threeepisodes of music and bowl over 4 million setsand to the artists. And then he'sgot a breakdown here of how this hasbeen done by apps. And we can see that there was through Boucher like customand accurate cost offence and podcast index pod friend pod verseand the split kit. So this has all gonedirectly to artists, which is equalto close to 1,200 USD. So that's a fair bitin Australian dollars as well. It'd be like 600, 1700,something like that. So we can see.
Okay, there's doesn't use casefor this and it's not just middling money. That was what, 30, you know, roughly 30tracks being distributed. And what's that 1200. So that's like,you know, 40 bucks a song. You know, imagine if you you had your songget played once on the radio andyou got 40 bucks for it like that. That would be prettydamn good. And there's moresome more complexities coming up withwith all of these things. And I will definitely be talking about thatin the next episode because there is quitea few complex things, but I think this isall just showcasing that.
Yeah, value forvalue music there is a need for itand one for it and then drive for itand people are willing to pay to pay for it. And I think artistsare going to be the beneficiary of thisbecause they have been some of the oneswho've been screwed out of I think just in a this is yet,you know what I would say it's an an unfair system. And so I think this isa more fair one for sure. BeforeI get into my my final fundamental points,why I think this is really going to changeand how this kind of relatesto podcasting as well. I did just want to play the Cherry on top songfrom Aynsley Costello, and this will also bean example of how how we can dovalue for value music even on this very show,on this very episode.
So I'm going to letAinsley take it away and I'll be right back soon.
[00:26:16] Unknown:
Oh no. Oh, does. Guys, I know that you. Know thatI knew about you play, but you had to go toevery. One of my attentionthat you had and one. But I bet you're wonderingwhy killing all nine doesn't hurt my back likeyou thought it was okay for meto lie, to get good. You put food on the table, leave it out. Try. She loved me. I said this. Hear what she said. I'm sorry. I know that if I did,I would say Go to the. Corner of the room. Because I know that youare used to having it all. Given back to. You. And though it might beshelved in the same cry like a little boy might deservea third of doses of COVID, I don't feel the pain.
When I first met your mother,I remember. Right. Well, she'll be me. Some wine. Sorry, I'm dry. I'll. I'll sa. I'll. I'll will. Honey,I know that all is well. Or maybe I don't know, but I have to tell you. See, the way can handle this placeat the end of the day. But you may,but I'll leave it out. Right. Well I've all get together reaction that you want differentareas of your life. Put it out right. Oh shit. I want your reaction. This one. I'm sorry. I'm down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got
[00:29:03] Unknown:
all right, pumps. Thank you, Ainsley,for allowing me to play that on this show. Let's get into the fundamentalpoint before I get onto thefinal booster gram lounge. So the value of a valuesystem works on goodwill. I think this is somethingthat I've established kind of rightfrom the start. You know, it'sgoodwill on my part to put this up on for freethis, this episode,this everything that I do, you know, you never haveto pay for it. I'm always going to bethe one giving youthe value straight up. And that's alwayshow it's going to work. And I think we can take this furtherwhere it's like, you know, I'm now relying on your goodwill to your conscience to say, Did I enjoy thisvalue for value?
So did I enjoy this valuefor value music? And I ask that you just send it back into meand I hope that you do that now. I think this is going to requiresome fundamental changes and maybe the waypeople view things. So artists, for example, they're going to haveto give up complete controlover their music when they put it up onsome of these services. On on RSS, you're kind of just releasing itout to the wild. It's now like if people want to play it on a radio show,they're going to do that. If they want to remix it,they're going to do this. The, you know,it is kind of just like a little bit of looseningof the reins of no control of just likehere have at it now.
I think a lot of peopleare keen for this and will do this anyway because, you know,the unknown undiscovered. And when you're like that,you just want anyone to play it or hear itin any manner whatsoever. So there is a kind of goodwill on their part where it's like, okay, I'm just going to put this upand see what happens. There is somewhatof an expectation that if you're a podcasterand your creating a DJ radio showlike this, like Adam Corey was doing with Boostto Grand Bull that you putin the correct split or at least put in a split of some sort so that the artist, you'renot just taking their musicand just playing it there is an expectation.
It's not I don't thinkit will ever be enforced. Know, maybe we'll talk more about thatin the complexities lateron in the next episode. But there isat the very least, an expectationthat that will happen. There's an expectation that the listenerswill give back and that they will do that. Now, not everyoneis going to do that. So of course notevery podcaster is going to put itin the split for that for the musicthat they're playing. But for the most part, for the most part, you wouldyou would expect this. I think everyone isincluded as well. This is anotherfundamental point where just through the nature ofof how you can you can send moneyin this way using the LightningNetwork with Bitcoin and potentiallywith others in the future.
It doesn't particularlyhave to be this, but at the very momentit is, everyone can get includedso the bandmates, they can be put in split. If you have someone who you know, the studiowhich you recorded at, they can beput in the split. You can have the peoplewho are financing you whilst you're in a retreatand creating an album. They can beput in the split app. Developers can get a percentage forgiving a great experience. So I think it bypassesa lot of entrenched middlementhat you had already seen in the music industry,and it's incentivising everyoneto to do the right thing.
Everyonegets a piece of the pie by creating somethingbetter. And I think what we're going to seeis we're going to see music apps do somethingthat will look like a music app and willbe only just for music. I think these thingswill start to pop up in the future and we're already kind ofstarting to see some, but none that are really,really distinct as of yet because as I justmentioned, most of the ways that peopleare doing it at the moment is viaa podcasting app, and that's just not the best experiencefor playing music. And it would be betterto have a music app much like you have YouTube music or Spotifyor any of the other ones which are more suiteddirectly for the music experiencebecause it does matter.
The experience. So I think this is all going to change because everyone can geta cut, can get a split. And then finally, evenjust going back to the second episode of the season, which was talkingabout the four different properties, I think this satisfiesall of them. So it's one you know,it's decentralised. You can put up your music in one place,but anyone can access that from anywhere. So this is usingthe RSS feed. So if I just put up mymusic in this one place, I don't have to now go andput it up in a ridiculous number of places.
And on the selfsovereignty aspect, you know,I can own my own music and this ispretty important. You need to be ableto own your own music to be able to put itup into it like this so that it satisfiesthat permissionless. You know, I don't have to askSpotify to put my music up if it containsnaughty words, if it contains this,if it deals with themes which are perhaps taboo,you know, once again, you don't have to beg anyone to be ableto put your music up or for them to playor for even just outside influencesto come in and say, you know, your style.
I think it would be better if you started singing about thingswhich are more suited to a demographic,you know, couple of years a decade younger than youand all these sorts of things. I think I think you can bypassa lot of that if you if you want to bea more pure creative and put it up in a ina place just where it is, you don't have to askpermission. You don't have to bend to the music industry'swhims and wills and kind of sell your soul. And then finally,the value transfer, of course, is when you're doing it through RSS,you are doing it through thisestablished way.
I think it is going tomake a big, big difference on that aspect. So yeah, wholet me go for the music. I hope I have donea reasonable job of explaining what it isand why it's important and why I think it'srather revolutionary. So let'sget into the boosta gram lounge this weekand then we'll yeah, we'll have a couple of more tipsand things like that. So let'stake it away. Adam Curry
[00:35:40] Unknown:
Welcometo the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Alrighty, the BoostaGram Lounge, here we go. So pro tip number one, it's important to checkyou'll have Booster Grams if you checkedin last week. You'll see that I misseda couple that were there. So apologiesfor Who was that? Robert Suzuki and China for only doing thatat the end this week. I am reasonably sure that there's no live onescome in. So thank youfor those two though. So we did get three boostsfrom this last week. So I'm just goingto read these out and I'm going to try it in the lowest to the highest. So we've got CoachMcCormack here coming in.
I feel like I caughta wave with v4v this week. Thanks for the shout out,bro. New World Order. So I was going to talkabout him, but I might have actuallymissed that in my notes. Yeah, sorry I did. So Ainsley had a chatwith Coach McCormickon this show, America Plus I think it was a really great interviewbecause one the age level. So a reasonably closecalls, actuallya pretty good interview. All of the first timeI've heard him really doing an interview. And I think he absolutelynailed it. He knows a lotabout value for value. He knows a lot about the creative aspectbecause he himself is kind of more of like a filmmaker, artist,that type of thing.
And yeah, I just think that wasa great interview. So if you want to knowmore about Ainsley Costelloand just the the experience she hadwith V for V music, I would recommend checkingout his show in that. So you did Cat IndeedCatch a Wave and it's awesome to see that. So that was five 492 sent using fountainthat is his favourite number. Thank you. Cool. We've got another one herefrom Macintosh. Boost, boost, Boost. One quick note, I sought my boostapp by episode when I get boostfrom more than one episode and I think you mentionedthat as a presentation. I do like Kohl's idea of smallest to largestbuild the tension.
MacintoshSo thank you very much. Macintosh. Then you add a little oneemoji in there as well, and that was 10,309 setsand using fence and yeah, this is probably goingto be I'm really interested to see how this would be in the futurebecause at the moment, from all the showsthat I've seen, it very much does seem thatpeople are boosting in for the latest. By and large, I'm really keen to see,you know, say Joe Rogan got onto podcasting to follow. Would there be peopleboosting in old shows? Old ones? And what I have noticedis when I was doing this with podcasting 2.0 and I was catching up and I was boosting oldepisodes, they themselvesdidn't really get it as much because I wasboosting something from, you know, months agothat you're talking about months ago.
So it does make itof harder like that. So I think it is going tobe very much based around the latest episodes,and that's probably just how it will work. I think that's how the value for value modelparticularly works. But we'll have to see. And this can perhapseven be a maybe a detrimentto music, which is unless you're constantlyputting out new music, maybe you don't getsome of the the royaltiesbecause people are like, Oh, I've listened tothis show 500 times. This episode, this music500 times before. I'm not going to payfor this one. I think that can beovercome.
But yeah, it's is somethingto look out for, for sure. And yeah, I will mentionthat in the future. Thank you. I, I've alwaysjust read him out kind of willy nilly to be honest. And then finally coming inThe Godfather himself at Carrie and his 1999in his fountain handle. I'm not sure why. This is anothergreat episode explaining the Valley Value model exclamationmark, 25,000 SATs and musicfountain. We thank you very much,Adam. And once again,the Bridge to Grand Bowl. I would really recommendpeople checking out that show Macintosh also has onecalled Generation Bitcoin.
If you want to know moreabout the Bitcoin aspect and that boosterGrand Bowl, it's it'sa really good show. It's worth checking outeven if you have no interest in the sendingof money back and forth of supporting artistsor anything. It's worth it just in terms ofbeing a radio show itself. He's he's a pro. He'sreally, really good at it. And there'sa couple of more shows cropping up and I'll maybetry and get to them in the nextweek's episode. So that is the bestgremlins for this week. I really, reallythank you. Thank you,everyone who sent that in. I was doing a coupleof like quick calculations and I thinkI need to get around.
I thinkit was probably about 500,000 sets to overthe course of this year to kind of make up how much it coststo host the show. So I would really love toto try and get to that. So this is a huge boostto getting that. So thank you. Thank you very muchfor the the three people who didthat and everyone who was extremely in as well, because I did see somestreams coming in. Let's jump into some tipsand I'm going to say from this week,the tip is obviously going to be relatedto value for value music. A lot of it is how you present itto musicians as well. I saw a bit of chatteron the podcast index and it evangelisingis not the way to go about this kindof going out to people in their face about it.
And it's it's hard because you can beenthusiastic about a thing, obviously,like I am for podcasting and for forvalue, for value music, but it's best not to justshove it in their face. And I've found that for mepersonally, asking about the problemsand have fixed them for myself via podcastingtwo point out, has beenthe best way to do it. And then if they area musician themselves, you know, putting like a little cheeky righthook at the end of, Oh, and by the way, there'sa music version of this is probably the best wayof going about it. So even though it's notparticularly fun, I thinkfocusing on the problems and then highlightinga solution of something that,you know, that works, you, I think that that worksa lot better than trying to dive right in and be like,Have you tried this thing?
Put your music app on hereand this will happen and it's awesomebecause of these, you know,because it's decentralised and self-sovereignand you know, a lot of peoplejust don't care about it. And a lot of people, there's justso many different steps to, to get into it,you know, what is an RSS feed,what is Bitcoin, what are micropayments,what is the problem? It's easierjust to start with what I think they, they know as a problemand what they've experiencedthemselves. And honestly, that's the bestway that I've found of of going about thisand in highlighting these sorts of things.
So yeah, just a little pro tip that evangelisingno one really enjoys it and yet even though you'reenthusiastic about it, just,just be mindful of howyou are coming across because I certainly havebeen guilty in the past of Yeah, yeah. You know, like testing it outfor sure and telling peopleabout things but it, it doesn't,it doesn't always work and sometimes it doesn'tcome across that great. So that is my tipfor this week. App or service highlight. I've purposely stayed awayfrom a lot of linkages to things how you can exactly do this asa musician, as a listener.
So I will I'll give justa broad one here, which is probably like a basic goodstop point is wave like so w i v l.a k e so if you go to wavelike dot com, I think they've gotsome pretty just it's it's an easy experience for those who want to now nowknow more about the all sides of the equationbecause it is useful to be able to listen toand it's also useful to be able to sign upif you are a musician. And so basically likeif you go to the website, turn up the valuefor your biggest fans. We envision a new online world where creatorsand listeners can freely transact with one anotherin an open ecosystem so relatively easy.
And then it's got some talking abouthow it's easy publishing,universal distribution and what it's all built on, which is likein payments. And they're very,very easy. If you go to the website, there's a play buttonright down the bottom so you can start listening to something immediately. And if you're a musician, you can start goingto the about section and learningmore there. So that's probablyjust the the easiest way at the momentfor just beginning aspect. Next week we'll get into the more complexthings and, and kind of how a lot of this stuffworks under the hood.
So yeah, we've, we've explored thatand a lot of the concepts. Next weekI'll just be able to refer to and saycheck out this episode. So that is my appand service highlight. Let's finish off with some value for valueas usual, I give 15% of each episodeto particular people in addition to the 5%that is going to some developers. So 5% goes to the podcastIntex slash fountain. And this week I'm going to give 5%to the three people who I'm goingto play music for. So I've already playedAinsley's song and I'm also going to playthe song Making Beans from Abeland the Wolf.
And I'll give 5% to Spencer and5% to Abel Kerby for this. These once again, I'm tryingto just highlight here how music it's it'sgot this ineffable quality to it. It's it'ssomething passionate. It's something that peoplereally care about and are willingto spend a lot of time and money and justinvestment of things into. And, you know,I don't have the access to a lot of the complexthings which I could do thisin a better way. So when you are listening to just their music,all of the money goes directly to them. So instead I'm just going to have to dothis kind of basic way.
And the reason I can do this is once again,the good will. I know assessments areand Albuquerque, I've talked to thembefore. I've asked them before to domusic, and I have indeed played musicon one of my shows. So it just soso I've got some credits. I was talkingabout this probably a year ago, I think in in an episode which I titled Decentralised Musicon the memorial. So I'll, I'll Yeah. Include a link to thatsomewhere and the Yeah. Just,just the aspect of okay, I know these people,I talk to Ainsley as well, I was like you know, doyou mind if I play a song? I want to be able to do itin the complete correct way.
And she's just like, Yeah,yeah, please, please do. So 5% of this is goingto her to suspense and to applicablefor the 15%. Once again, a lot of this relieson kind of the goodwill of thinking that, okay,the pie is going to grow. It's it'snot a zero sum game. People love these things. The more people know aboutit, the better it gets. So, yeah, until next week we will be talking moreabout the complexities and maybe some of the problemswhich will be coming up and some of the solutions to those problems as well. But until then,I really just want to thank you for joining mefor another episode, the Value for Value Show.
And I'm going to let SirSpencer and Able Kirby take it away with theirband Able and The Wolf. And thesong is Making Beans and.
[00:47:23] Unknown:
I can't Sit Still because it's so Will. They're talking to me, but I can't know what itmeans. It's hard to pay attentionwhen you're busy making things upstairs. I'm busy making big and I'm staff react fine,you know what I mean? And these peoplecome to see you and that's the part. Some moreor it's a better. Way is it stood there and they're here and and. And. Now I know I live in a hall. In a tree scalp of me on screen. I mean, all these people sure were nice to mewhen they dragged. Me downDolly on the stage at all. Well, no, I know whereAnon calls me. They just make it big and I'm very fine,you know what I mean?
And allthese people come up and it's their first concert still.
