Will this new medium be just as revolutionary as radio and podcasting? In Ep#45 we are going to have a look at the current problems in the music industry, case examples of musicians/DJ's using RSS and why everyone gets a part of the money.
Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, McIntosh and Adam Curry for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to Ainsley Costello, Able Kirby & Sir Spencer for letting me play their music. Don't forget to support your favourite musicians!
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Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, McIntosh and Adam Curry for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to Ainsley Costello, Able Kirby & Sir Spencer for letting me play their music. Don't forget to support your favourite musicians!
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
[00:00:00]
Unknown:
The world of music is changing and it's for the better. Okay. Welcome everyone to another value for value episode. My name is Kyrin, host of the Mere Mortals podcast. But also this one where I dive deeper into the value for value model. I look at how this model is going to help digital content creators in a way which would allow you to get paid and also connect with your audience. Just a reiteration that I'd do this live on a Wednesday or on the border point on a Tuesday, Wednesday. So midnight UTC zero. So just plus or minus wherever you are in the world from that on to there.
And yeah, I would love to have you join me into for one of these live ones. Now I just want to start this off with just saying V for V music. It's going to change the world. So the topic for today's V for V music. Musicians are finally getting paid and this is going to be a two parter. So the first portion of this is going to be really looking at the general concept. What is V for? V music? Why is it important? And then in the next episode, next week, we'll get into the weeds and some real resources for those who want to really participate in this and a try out what what this stuff is.
So let's go into the top level. What is V for? V music? And basically it's a way for musicians to distribute their work using RSS. And we have already talked about in previous episodes why this is powerful, why you would want RSS in your in your feed. So this was episode number 41. What is a podcast? I was really talking about it there. And then also even in the one before that episode 40, which was about how RSS can make your feed decentralised, be self-sovereign permissionless and allow some value transfer going on as well. So we already talked about that.
And let's just start off with I guess it's like what, what's one of the main problems that's currently going on with music now? All of this I'm kind of using from Second-Hand sources because I am not a musician myself, so I haven't fully got to experience these, but it seems to be rather unanimous with most of the musicians that I've talked with. And it seems to be that the the system of distribution is kind of I hesitate to use the word unfair, but it it's very close to that. It it doesn't very much seem to be an inside a game or it's only suited to particular people.
Only certain people can can kind of win in this industry, much like with the radio or the TV industry. You had to have a certain level of knowing of people of, you know, playing the game somewhat to speak, and then something like podcasting came around, which was like, Oh, cool, I can just do this from my own home. You know, I don't have to go into a radio station. I don't have to, you know, appease these bosses. I can just produce exactly what I want. And the, the, the methods, the tools of distribution allow me to do this at such a niche, individual level.
And so what we can see now is that there is this kind of barrier point for for musicians, which is, well, you know, maybe they can create their own music, but what do they do with it then? How do they get that out to people? And the distribution from this seems to be you need to put it out on everywhere. And so there is a ridiculous number of streaming platforms due to be able to do this. And probably the ones that you will be most aware of would be things like SoundCloud would be Spotify. I probably I would even put YouTube in there as a as a way of distributing music as well.
They certainly have the YouTube music app as well. So there's there's a variety of larger ways. But as we'll go on to a little bit later with Ainsley Costello, she has a post where she was talking about how she is up on a ridiculous number of apps of streaming platforms. And I think she said there was 60 plus that she is on, which was even news to me because I didn't know that there was there was that many. So basically you can put all your stuff out there, but you have to be very active in doing this. You know, if you put in your song, you have to put it up on a ridiculous number of places to try and get it out onto all of these different various things.
So not not super, super helpful in that regard. And this is in comparison to something like podcasting where I only have to put my audio file up in one place and then I can link to all of these all of these places to that audio file. And then it's like, okay, you can check out here, whereas I don't have to manually go and do that, I can just put it all in place. This is kind of like we were talking about with RSS, you know, just one, just one place and one source of truth of of one thing that I earn and everything can point in there. And yeah, I just found it on 60 plus streaming services.
So that's an insane amount but that she is on. So I guess what is the main difference between this and maybe something like So that's a problem. Distribution is obviously one problem that's in the music industry at the moment. Another one is that there is a, I guess, lack of being able to be in the money yourself. So if we think of something like Napster or MySpace, you could say, okay, well, musicians kind of had a place to put their music and a lot of people could link to it. Once again, it's not as good as RSS. I personally, I believe, but that you could have that.
But once again, how do you get paid from that now? How do you make money from this? And the current royalty range from what I once again, what I have gathered from the outside, it seems to be somewhere in like the 10 to 30% range. If you're a musician and people are playing your music, you're only getting 10 to 30% of what's actually what could potentially be coming in, which once again seems kind of insane to me, that it's so low if you're the ones who put all of this together that you only get such a small, small portion of this and which will then get divided up even further.
If you're in a band and now you have to split that 10%, what, five, six different ways or that 30%, five or six different ways. So the current royalty scheme seems to be rather unfair. And let's just take something like Spotify, which is this is one I'm reasonably confident. I know how it works. Spotify does it like this. So they earn money from users paying a premium thing. So this will be $9 a month and then there's another tier or two above that. And what they do is they kind of collect all this money and then, you know, a portion of this will get distributed to the music rights associations, all of these people who they're getting and the bigger stuff from.
So this is think like, you know, the mega bands, the Taylor Swift's The Red Hot Chilli Peppers, things like that. A lot of it will go to those record companies and then that will get distributed up, perhaps even to the artists from there, or it will just go directly to them. And so the the amount that you pay gets divvied up into all of these kind of different places. And what happens is the amount that's remaining left for all of the artists, it gets divvied up based on the amount of plays. And so those who have a lot a lot of plays, they get more money.
So once again, think of the very, very famous, most popular artists. They get a ridiculous amount. Now, what this means is if you have someone who is maybe marginally or moderately successful, maybe you get, you know, 100,000 people tuning in to music a month. And what how much do you actually get from that? Well, I believe it's somewhere in the range of 3 to $5 per thousand streams. As I've looked into it, this seems to vary widely as well because they do all these sorts of things based on the country and whatnot. And I'm going to guess that it's kind of scurries around the smaller artists as well.
So let's just say $2 per stream. If you compared this to something like the advertising model in podcasting and which for me has been really equivalent to the value for value in terms of the actual amount that I receive versus how many people have boosted in and how much you go listen to is closer to $20 per thousand. So this is where it's really intriguing. You go, okay, well, is music worth, you know, ten times less than podcasting or is is podcasting worth ten times more in terms of the actual time it creates? Did takes to create music?
I would probably say no in terms of the actual output of how it makes people feel the value that people get from it. I probably wouldn't have particularly said sorry. If anything, I would have said music is a much more powerful and medium. But you know, this is all just going to show. There does seem to be something like a little bit broken with the way that it's working. And I think mostly this is due to things on the layer which is not connected to the actual content itself, but it's all of the things around it. And so what happens is even if I have a premium Spotify thing I'm listening to exclusively, you know, artists that I really enjoy who are maybe not as mainstream, I'm almost none of my money actually goes directly to them.
It always it goes to these other artists who are getting played a lot and downloaded a lot. But it's, you know, my individual personal tastes are not going to to where I think they should be going or where I would want them to go, I suppose. But because so much of this is behind the surface, you have no idea. And so what I would just say is that the kind of like top level view, there's a lot of problems, but it's not at the technology layer, it's not at the distribution of it. So, for example, it's not that there's better sound quality on different apps.
It's not that there are better playlists necessarily. It's not that there's better algorithms. It's it's kind of like the problem. The problem is, is that the incentives and how things are getting distributed and how things are getting divvied up. And it seems to be that the smaller artists are getting a pretty shit go of it and they the amounts or the things that should be happening if they do have a loyal fan base, you know, they're thousand true fans. We've heard about this in the Kevin Kelly article. If you have 2000 true fans, you should be able to make a living from that.
And if they're willing to pay, you know, $10 a month, that's 10,000 a month that's easily liveable off. And it seems to be that those 2000 true fans, there's no easy way for them to do that through music at the moment. And what I think is going to change that is value for value music. So let's let's talk about that. So basically, what is value for value music? Well, it's being able to have your music distributed in this manner that I was talking about, where you can just put it in one place and everything can link to that. So this is using RSS and it's being able to monetise that much like we were talking about previously with the boosted grams and through micropayments, the exact same mechanism you can put in a lightning wallet and this will then be able to be a kind of source of truth for people to say, okay, if I want to contribute directly to my favourite artist, my favourite musician, this is the way where I know if I boost in or if I stream micropayments, it will go directly to them.
So if you want to know more about that, check out the previous two episodes on micropayments and on Booster grams. And so I think this is going to change revolutionise the music industry just from the simple fact of musicians are going to realise, okay, this is actually changing things and this is actually going to make them more fair for me and I can distribute it in a just simpler and easier manner rather than trying to put it on 60 streaming services. So I'm going to get into a little bit of the history, I suppose, of this. So because I've been following this pretty closely for the last year and a half and I because I think it is going to be probably one of the biggest use cases or things that really will maybe go viral from the whole podcasting 2.0 ecosystem and micropayments and things like this is this ability to do it with music because there's just something about music that people really it transforms and it creates people to do things in a more emotionally charged way than perhaps a podcast like this. So, so let's just go on to like a I guess you will, one of the first people to do this.
So and specifically I'm talking about you're a musician. You want to put your music up on somewhere, but you get like a Spotify. It's a kind of shit deal. SoundCloud, you know, Bandcamp, all of these places that they're not really, really helping me that much. And so there was two artists. One was called So Spencer, and one was called Abel Kirby, and they're both podcasters, and they created a band called Abel and The Wolf. And basically what they did is they went through the whole process of creating an album specifically just to be able to put it up as a, as a band, as a music specifically designed to be put up on RSS.
Because one of the problems is it it's not coming across super, super easy at the moment. It's not. The whole process takes a bit of time. And if you're tuning into this show, you should know like everything is of this is running with scissors. All of this is really new and it takes a bit of time to kind of work up into. And so if you want to know more about this, go check out episode 36 called a Craft of this very show because they created a podcast which was showcasing their whole design process of how they they went through this.
So episode 36 of the of the previous season of season two. And so what were some of the things they did? Well, they created a transcript which would be containing the lyrics of their song. So you can see, okay, this is showcasing something that you would maybe find in a CD of previous generations before that was the thing album Art, which they used as episode images. So for each, for each track that they had on their album, they would have an artist design a, a picture which would represent that song. And you're seeing one of those appearing up on your screen as we speak.
They had splits for the artists. So once again, this was something I was talking about with, say, in the Booster Graham's and in the streaming of payments. You can split things up directly within your feed, so you don't need to have a contract of one person gets all and all the money and then you relying on them to divvy it up and you don't rely on them. So you need a third party who, who's trusted to be able to do that. Now, in this case, it's like it's all written, baked in. If you want to give 20, if you got five bandmates and you just want to split it up evenly, you know, 20%, 20%, 20%, if you want to include more people in on that, you can or less people or one person is doing more work, you can change those and it's all beautiful.
And so that's what they did. The money was being split up and in these various ways, and it was for each individual track as well. So once again, it gets this granular level. It doesn't just have to be for I care. Well, you know, this person worked really hard on this particular song, so we were going to try and do it as a whole. Of all the money coming in, how should we do that? No, it's like, no, you can get paid directly for the work that you did. So this is really, really cool and I'm going to be playing some of their music a little bit later on as just a as a teaser for, I suppose, or showcasing of of how this works.
And so yeah, that was kind of one of the first use cases where I saw a musician actually creating this and putting it up specifically just to be used in this manner. There were a couple that had done this before, but this was probably the first that I saw where they really created it in this way. Now, one of the things that's really prompted me to talk about it on this episode and in the in the next episode as well is something called Grand Bull. And so this was created by Adam Curry, who you should know well, well, be well aware of by now.
He is the kind of co-inventor of podcasting, a former MTV veejay, and the guy who's going to spearhead spearheading, along with Dave Jones, the the podcasting 2.0 movement of of trying to make podcasting better and once again, check out the episode I did, I think three or four weeks ago called Emergence of podcasting 2.0 then. So Booster Grand Bold is basically where he highlights songs that he really enjoys, which have been put up in this manner. So it has been an artist has gone, Yep, I'm going to put it up in an RSS feed. I'm going to put in a lightning address which will showcase or will show where people can send money to.
And so what he is doing is now he's created a basically a DJ, a radio program where he is the DJ and he introduces like, you know, this is Bruce Grand Bowl. He's got all of these jingles and things and then he plays some music, you know, leads up into it. And he's a professional. He's done this professionally as a career for many, many a year before becoming a full time podcaster. Now was he? So he really knows how to create a good show that he'll lead into the music, the musical play. And as the music is playing through some just really, really cool technology, I guess the the money goes directly.
So if people are streaming in, the money goes directly to the artist then, or if they're boosting in, it goes directly to the artist, then when he comes back on, it will go to him. Then when he, you know, talks a little bit and then he plays the next song, it'll go to that, that next artist. And so basically he's created three shows at this very moment, each of these being roughly about an hour long, and he's playing about ten shows per episode. So we can see, okay, this is really cool because it solves a couple of things. The discoverability component, you know, if he's playing a show on there, this is how radio has always, always worked.
If you hear a really cool song on the radio, it's like, Oh man, I want to listen to more of that. I'm going to go out and buy this CD or I'm going to listen or stream and more. And I think this is where the madness is going to kick off, because I can really see this just expanding as musicians realise, Oh wow, I'm actually getting paid for for people listening to my music because there's people out there like me who have a very much kind of disposition towards, Yes, if I'm listening to something, I want to pay for it. And so would would I rather spend, you know, $9 a month on Spotify or would I rather spend $9 a month streaming directly to people who I think they deserve it? I'm going to do it my way and I'm going to stream in to music that I listen to and I'm going to stream in or boost into shows like Adams, which showcase music and is kind of a way for me to discover it.
So very, very, very cool on that point. And the thing is, this is, this is all I would say I would say kind of revolutionary as I was referring to at the start, because he's he's tried this once before and he never got it off the ground because it was just too hard with the record labels, with the right associations, all looking at podcasting and it's like, No, no, you can't do that because we can't see where this money goes. You know, you get this money, you have to send it to us. And it was just too much of a hassle. There was just too many too many barrier points with with, I suppose, the money side of things.
And I think that's get solved by the direct peer to peer nature of one, it being peer to peer. So there's no middleman involved, there's no trust needed and to with the functionality of being able to split things up in various ways, there's there's going to be less have the hassle of, oh you didn't send me this mount, you know, you got more than me, this sort of thing. It's like, no, it's all there, it's all laid out. And if if you have a problem with that, you should have brought that up as we were typing in or who's going to get what amount of split.
So I think this will change things a lot. With that. Before I go on to some of the the fundamental point why I think this is really going to work, I just want to give a shout out to Ainsley and a couple of stats that we've just seen across these various different shows. So I've got a tweet from her here. Once again, this will be appearing up on your screen as we speak. And so Ainsley Costello, she's a young musician in the United States. I'm not exactly sure where she is from. I think probably the Nashville area or she is she lives in the Nashville area at the moment.
And so she was just posting on July 25th. So she had posted up her music on Wave Lake and it kind of one of her songs called Cherry on Top, really. It got people into to like, Oh, wow, this is this is a great song. I want to play more of it. And so she said for five days on on that she got 180,372 SATs, which was equal to about 52 U.S. dollars and on for the whole of April 20, 23 on 60 plus streaming services, she got $22. So we can even see just from that little example there. Okay, she got double roughly in in these lightning payments from people directly streaming to her and boosting to her.
Yeah, she got a lot lot more. Now the funny thing is, you know this was what, three weeks ago. It's basically ten next that amount. So I know she's passed the 1 million sets range and I'm certainly sure that that other number of the 60 plus streaming services hasn't ten. So just for her she actually had a hit song and people loved it and they boosted in and they streamed in and it was a ridiculous amount more than she would have got just from being on all of these other platforms where they do take their cut and where it isn't distributed evenly and fairly based on people and how much they enjoy that music.
And so once again, this is just getting to the point where I think like V for V music, someone like her where she has something like that happen, she's going to she's going to tell her friends about it like she's going to she's going to be like, Wow, this is something completely different compared to the grinding away that I've been doing on all of these other platforms. So that was just a one little use case there. And then I want to go on to some stats that Adam Curry himself published, which was just what was happening from the Bristol Grand Bowl.
And so he says, here's what podcasting 2.0 has done for value for value music. On just three episodes of music and bowl over 4 million sets and to the artists. And then he's got a breakdown here of how this has been done by apps. And we can see that there was through Boucher like custom and accurate cost offence and podcast index pod friend pod verse and the split kit. So this has all gone directly to artists, which is equal to close to 1,200 USD. So that's a fair bit in Australian dollars as well. It'd be like 600, 1700, something like that. So we can see.
Okay, there's doesn't use case for this and it's not just middling money. That was what, 30, you know, roughly 30 tracks being distributed. And what's that 1200. So that's like, you know, 40 bucks a song. You know, imagine if you you had your song get played once on the radio and you got 40 bucks for it like that. That would be pretty damn good. And there's more some more complexities coming up with with all of these things. And I will definitely be talking about that in the next episode because there is quite a few complex things, but I think this is all just showcasing that.
Yeah, value for value music there is a need for it and one for it and then drive for it and people are willing to pay to pay for it. And I think artists are going to be the beneficiary of this because they have been some of the ones who've been screwed out of I think just in a this is yet, you know what I would say it's an an unfair system. And so I think this is a more fair one for sure. Before I get into my my final fundamental points, why I think this is really going to change and how this kind of relates to podcasting as well. I did just want to play the Cherry on top song from Aynsley Costello, and this will also be an example of how how we can do value for value music even on this very show, on this very episode.
So I'm going to let Ainsley take it away and I'll be right back soon.
[00:26:16] Unknown:
Oh no. Oh, does. Guys, I know that you. Know that I knew about you play, but you had to go to every. One of my attention that you had and one. But I bet you're wondering why killing all nine doesn't hurt my back like you thought it was okay for me to lie, to get good. You put food on the table, leave it out. Try. She loved me. I said this. Hear what she said. I'm sorry. I know that if I did, I would say Go to the. Corner of the room. Because I know that you are used to having it all. Given back to. You. And though it might be shelved in the same cry like a little boy might deserve a third of doses of COVID, I don't feel the pain.
When I first met your mother, I remember. Right. Well, she'll be me. Some wine. Sorry, I'm dry. I'll. I'll sa. I'll. I'll will. Honey, I know that all is well. Or maybe I don't know, but I have to tell you. See, the way can handle this place at the end of the day. But you may, but I'll leave it out. Right. Well I've all get together reaction that you want different areas of your life. Put it out right. Oh shit. I want your reaction. This one. I'm sorry. I'm down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got
[00:29:03] Unknown:
all right, pumps. Thank you, Ainsley, for allowing me to play that on this show. Let's get into the fundamental point before I get onto the final booster gram lounge. So the value of a value system works on goodwill. I think this is something that I've established kind of right from the start. You know, it's goodwill on my part to put this up on for free this, this episode, this everything that I do, you know, you never have to pay for it. I'm always going to be the one giving you the value straight up. And that's always how it's going to work. And I think we can take this further where it's like, you know, I'm now relying on your goodwill to your conscience to say, Did I enjoy this value for value?
So did I enjoy this value for value music? And I ask that you just send it back into me and I hope that you do that now. I think this is going to require some fundamental changes and maybe the way people view things. So artists, for example, they're going to have to give up complete control over their music when they put it up on some of these services. On on RSS, you're kind of just releasing it out to the wild. It's now like if people want to play it on a radio show, they're going to do that. If they want to remix it, they're going to do this. The, you know, it is kind of just like a little bit of loosening of the reins of no control of just like here have at it now.
I think a lot of people are keen for this and will do this anyway because, you know, the unknown undiscovered. And when you're like that, you just want anyone to play it or hear it in any manner whatsoever. So there is a kind of goodwill on their part where it's like, okay, I'm just going to put this up and see what happens. There is somewhat of an expectation that if you're a podcaster and your creating a DJ radio show like this, like Adam Corey was doing with Boost to Grand Bull that you put in the correct split or at least put in a split of some sort so that the artist, you're not just taking their music and just playing it there is an expectation.
It's not I don't think it will ever be enforced. Know, maybe we'll talk more about that in the complexities later on in the next episode. But there is at the very least, an expectation that that will happen. There's an expectation that the listeners will give back and that they will do that. Now, not everyone is going to do that. So of course not every podcaster is going to put it in the split for that for the music that they're playing. But for the most part, for the most part, you would you would expect this. I think everyone is included as well.
This is another fundamental point where just through the nature of of how you can you can send money in this way using the Lightning Network with Bitcoin and potentially with others in the future. It doesn't particularly have to be this, but at the very moment it is, everyone can get included so the bandmates, they can be put in split. If you have someone who you know, the studio which you recorded at, they can be put in the split. You can have the people who are financing you whilst you're in a retreat and creating an album. They can be put in the split app.
Developers can get a percentage for giving a great experience. So I think it bypasses a lot of entrenched middlemen that you had already seen in the music industry, and it's incentivising everyone to to do the right thing. Everyone gets a piece of the pie by creating something better. And I think what we're going to see is we're going to see music apps do something that will look like a music app and will be only just for music. I think these things will start to pop up in the future and we're already kind of starting to see some, but none that are really, really distinct as of yet because as I just mentioned, most of the ways that people are doing it at the moment is via a podcasting app, and that's just not the best experience for playing music.
And it would be better to have a music app much like you have YouTube music or Spotify or any of the other ones which are more suited directly for the music experience because it does matter. The experience. So I think this is all going to change because everyone can get a cut, can get a split. And then finally, even just going back to the second episode of the season, which was talking about the four different properties, I think this satisfies all of them. So it's one you know, it's decentralised. You can put up your music in one place, but anyone can access that from anywhere.
So this is using the RSS feed. So if I just put up my music in this one place, I don't have to now go and put it up in a ridiculous number of places. And on the self sovereignty aspect, you know, I can own my own music and this is pretty important. You need to be able to own your own music to be able to put it up into it like this so that it satisfies that permissionless. You know, I don't have to ask Spotify to put my music up if it contains naughty words, if it contains this, if it deals with themes which are perhaps taboo, you know, once again, you don't have to beg anyone to be able to put your music up or for them to play or for even just outside influences to come in and say, you know, your style.
I think it would be better if you started singing about things which are more suited to a demographic, you know, couple of years a decade younger than you and all these sorts of things. I think I think you can bypass a lot of that if you if you want to be a more pure creative and put it up in a in a place just where it is, you don't have to ask permission. You don't have to bend to the music industry's whims and wills and kind of sell your soul. And then finally, the value transfer, of course, is when you're doing it through RSS, you are doing it through this established way.
I think it is going to make a big, big difference on that aspect. So yeah, who let me go for the music. I hope I have done a reasonable job of explaining what it is and why it's important and why I think it's rather revolutionary. So let's get into the boosta gram lounge this week and then we'll yeah, we'll have a couple of more tips and things like that. So let's take it away. Adam Curry
[00:35:40] Unknown:
Welcome to the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Alrighty, the Boosta Gram Lounge, here we go. So pro tip number one, it's important to check you'll have Booster Grams if you checked in last week. You'll see that I missed a couple that were there. So apologies for Who was that? Robert Suzuki and China for only doing that at the end this week. I am reasonably sure that there's no live ones come in. So thank you for those two though. So we did get three boosts from this last week. So I'm just going to read these out and I'm going to try it in the lowest to the highest. So we've got Coach McCormack here coming in.
I feel like I caught a wave with v4v this week. Thanks for the shout out, bro. New World Order. So I was going to talk about him, but I might have actually missed that in my notes. Yeah, sorry I did. So Ainsley had a chat with Coach McCormick on this show, America Plus I think it was a really great interview because one the age level. So a reasonably close calls, actually a pretty good interview. All of the first time I've heard him really doing an interview. And I think he absolutely nailed it. He knows a lot about value for value. He knows a lot about the creative aspect because he himself is kind of more of like a filmmaker, artist, that type of thing.
And yeah, I just think that was a great interview. So if you want to know more about Ainsley Costello and just the the experience she had with V for V music, I would recommend checking out his show in that. So you did Cat Indeed Catch a Wave and it's awesome to see that. So that was five 492 sent using fountain that is his favourite number. Thank you. Cool. We've got another one here from Macintosh. Boost, boost, Boost. One quick note, I sought my boost app by episode when I get boost from more than one episode and I think you mentioned that as a presentation.
I do like Kohl's idea of smallest to largest build the tension. Macintosh So thank you very much. Macintosh. Then you add a little one emoji in there as well, and that was 10,309 sets and using fence and yeah, this is probably going to be I'm really interested to see how this would be in the future because at the moment, from all the shows that I've seen, it very much does seem that people are boosting in for the latest. By and large, I'm really keen to see, you know, say Joe Rogan got on to podcasting to follow. Would there be people boosting in old shows?
Old ones? And what I have noticed is when I was doing this with podcasting 2.0 and I was catching up and I was boosting old episodes, they themselves didn't really get it as much because I was boosting something from, you know, months ago that you're talking about months ago. So it does make it of harder like that. So I think it is going to be very much based around the latest episodes, and that's probably just how it will work. I think that's how the value for value model particularly works. But we'll have to see. And this can perhaps even be a maybe a detriment to music, which is unless you're constantly putting out new music, maybe you don't get some of the the royalties because people are like, Oh, I've listened to this show 500 times.
This episode, this music 500 times before. I'm not going to pay for this one. I think that can be overcome. But yeah, it's is something to look out for, for sure. And yeah, I will mention that in the future. Thank you. I, I've always just read him out kind of willy nilly to be honest. And then finally coming in The Godfather himself at Carrie and his 1999 in his fountain handle. I'm not sure why. This is another great episode explaining the Valley Value model exclamation mark, 25,000 SATs and music fountain. We thank you very much, Adam. And once again, the Bridge to Grand Bowl.
I would really recommend people checking out that show Macintosh also has one called Generation Bitcoin. If you want to know more about the Bitcoin aspect and that booster Grand Bowl, it's it's a really good show. It's worth checking out even if you have no interest in the sending of money back and forth of supporting artists or anything. It's worth it just in terms of being a radio show itself. He's he's a pro. He's really, really good at it. And there's a couple of more shows cropping up and I'll maybe try and get to them in the next week's episode.
So that is the best gremlins for this week. I really, really thank you. Thank you, everyone who sent that in. I was doing a couple of like quick calculations and I think I need to get around. I think it was probably about 500,000 sets to over the course of this year to kind of make up how much it costs to host the show. So I would really love to to try and get to that. So this is a huge boost to getting that. So thank you. Thank you very much for the the three people who did that and everyone who was extremely in as well, because I did see some streams coming in.
Let's jump into some tips and I'm going to say from this week, the tip is obviously going to be related to value for value music. A lot of it is how you present it to musicians as well. I saw a bit of chatter on the podcast index and it evangelising is not the way to go about this kind of going out to people in their face about it. And it's it's hard because you can be enthusiastic about a thing, obviously, like I am for podcasting and for for value, for value music, but it's best not to just shove it in their face. And I've found that for me personally, asking about the problems and have fixed them for myself via podcasting two point out, has been the best way to do it.
And then if they are a musician themselves, you know, putting like a little cheeky right hook at the end of, Oh, and by the way, there's a music version of this is probably the best way of going about it. So even though it's not particularly fun, I think focusing on the problems and then highlighting a solution of something that, you know, that works, you, I think that that works a lot better than trying to dive right in and be like, Have you tried this thing? Put your music app on here and this will happen and it's awesome because of these, you know, because it's decentralised and self-sovereign and you know, a lot of people just don't care about it.
And a lot of people, there's just so many different steps to, to get into it, you know, what is an RSS feed, what is Bitcoin, what are micropayments, what is the problem? It's easier just to start with what I think they, they know as a problem and what they've experienced themselves. And honestly, that's the best way that I've found of of going about this and in highlighting these sorts of things. So yeah, just a little pro tip that evangelising no one really enjoys it and yet even though you're enthusiastic about it, just, just be mindful of how you are coming across because I certainly have been guilty in the past of Yeah, yeah.
You know, like testing it out for sure and telling people about things but it, it doesn't, it doesn't always work and sometimes it doesn't come across that great. So that is my tip for this week. App or service highlight. I've purposely stayed away from a lot of linkages to things how you can exactly do this as a musician, as a listener. So I will I'll give just a broad one here, which is probably like a basic good stop point is wave like so w i v l.a k e so if you go to wave like dot com, I think they've got some pretty just it's it's an easy experience for those who want to now now know more about the all sides of the equation because it is useful to be able to listen to and it's also useful to be able to sign up if you are a musician.
And so basically like if you go to the website, turn up the value for your biggest fans. We envision a new online world where creators and listeners can freely transact with one another in an open ecosystem so relatively easy. And then it's got some talking about how it's easy publishing, universal distribution and what it's all built on, which is like in payments. And they're very, very easy. If you go to the website, there's a play button right down the bottom so you can start listening to something immediately. And if you're a musician, you can start going to the about section and learning more there. So that's probably just the the easiest way at the moment for just beginning aspect.
Next week we'll get into the more complex things and, and kind of how a lot of this stuff works under the hood. So yeah, we've, we've explored that and a lot of the concepts. Next week I'll just be able to refer to and say check out this episode. So that is my app and service highlight. Let's finish off with some value for value as usual, I give 15% of each episode to particular people in addition to the 5% that is going to some developers. So 5% goes to the podcast Intex slash fountain. And this week I'm going to give 5% to the three people who I'm going to play music for.
So I've already played Ainsley's song and I'm also going to play the song Making Beans from Abel and the Wolf. And I'll give 5% to Spencer and 5% to Abel Kerby for this. These once again, I'm trying to just highlight here how music it's it's got this ineffable quality to it. It's it's something passionate. It's something that people really care about and are willing to spend a lot of time and money and just investment of things into. And, you know, I don't have the access to a lot of the complex things which I could do this in a better way. So when you are listening to just their music, all of the money goes directly to them.
So instead I'm just going to have to do this kind of basic way. And the reason I can do this is once again, the good will. I know assessments are and Albuquerque, I've talked to them before. I've asked them before to do music, and I have indeed played music on one of my shows. So it just so so I've got some credits. I was talking about this probably a year ago, I think in in an episode which I titled Decentralised Music on the memorial. So I'll, I'll Yeah. Include a link to that somewhere and the Yeah. Just, just the aspect of okay, I know these people, I talk to Ainsley as well, I was like you know, do you mind if I play a song?
I want to be able to do it in the complete correct way. And she's just like, Yeah, yeah, please, please do. So 5% of this is going to her to suspense and to applicable for the 15%. Once again, a lot of this relies on kind of the goodwill of thinking that, okay, the pie is going to grow. It's it's not a zero sum game. People love these things. The more people know about it, the better it gets. So, yeah, until next week we will be talking more about the complexities and maybe some of the problems which will be coming up and some of the solutions to those problems as well.
But until then, I really just want to thank you for joining me for another episode, the Value for Value Show. And I'm going to let Sir Spencer and Able Kirby take it away with their band Able and The Wolf. And the song is Making Beans and.
[00:47:23] Unknown:
I can't Sit Still because it's so Will. They're talking to me, but I can't know what it means. It's hard to pay attention when you're busy making things upstairs. I'm busy making big and I'm staff react fine, you know what I mean? And these people come to see you and that's the part. Some more or it's a better. Way is it stood there and they're here and and. And. Now I know I live in a hall. In a tree scalp of me on screen. I mean, all these people sure were nice to me when they dragged. Me down Dolly on the stage at all. Well, no, I know where Anon calls me.
They just make it big and I'm very fine, you know what I mean? And all these people come up and it's their first concert still.
The world of music is changing and it's for the better. Okay. Welcome everyone to another value for value episode. My name is Kyrin, host of the Mere Mortals podcast. But also this one where I dive deeper into the value for value model. I look at how this model is going to help digital content creators in a way which would allow you to get paid and also connect with your audience. Just a reiteration that I'd do this live on a Wednesday or on the border point on a Tuesday, Wednesday. So midnight UTC zero. So just plus or minus wherever you are in the world from that on to there.
And yeah, I would love to have you join me into for one of these live ones. Now I just want to start this off with just saying V for V music. It's going to change the world. So the topic for today's V for V music. Musicians are finally getting paid and this is going to be a two parter. So the first portion of this is going to be really looking at the general concept. What is V for? V music? Why is it important? And then in the next episode, next week, we'll get into the weeds and some real resources for those who want to really participate in this and a try out what what this stuff is.
So let's go into the top level. What is V for? V music? And basically it's a way for musicians to distribute their work using RSS. And we have already talked about in previous episodes why this is powerful, why you would want RSS in your in your feed. So this was episode number 41. What is a podcast? I was really talking about it there. And then also even in the one before that episode 40, which was about how RSS can make your feed decentralised, be self-sovereign permissionless and allow some value transfer going on as well. So we already talked about that.
And let's just start off with I guess it's like what, what's one of the main problems that's currently going on with music now? All of this I'm kind of using from Second-Hand sources because I am not a musician myself, so I haven't fully got to experience these, but it seems to be rather unanimous with most of the musicians that I've talked with. And it seems to be that the the system of distribution is kind of I hesitate to use the word unfair, but it it's very close to that. It it doesn't very much seem to be an inside a game or it's only suited to particular people.
Only certain people can can kind of win in this industry, much like with the radio or the TV industry. You had to have a certain level of knowing of people of, you know, playing the game somewhat to speak, and then something like podcasting came around, which was like, Oh, cool, I can just do this from my own home. You know, I don't have to go into a radio station. I don't have to, you know, appease these bosses. I can just produce exactly what I want. And the, the, the methods, the tools of distribution allow me to do this at such a niche, individual level.
And so what we can see now is that there is this kind of barrier point for for musicians, which is, well, you know, maybe they can create their own music, but what do they do with it then? How do they get that out to people? And the distribution from this seems to be you need to put it out on everywhere. And so there is a ridiculous number of streaming platforms due to be able to do this. And probably the ones that you will be most aware of would be things like SoundCloud would be Spotify. I probably I would even put YouTube in there as a as a way of distributing music as well.
They certainly have the YouTube music app as well. So there's there's a variety of larger ways. But as we'll go on to a little bit later with Ainsley Costello, she has a post where she was talking about how she is up on a ridiculous number of apps of streaming platforms. And I think she said there was 60 plus that she is on, which was even news to me because I didn't know that there was there was that many. So basically you can put all your stuff out there, but you have to be very active in doing this. You know, if you put in your song, you have to put it up on a ridiculous number of places to try and get it out onto all of these different various things.
So not not super, super helpful in that regard. And this is in comparison to something like podcasting where I only have to put my audio file up in one place and then I can link to all of these all of these places to that audio file. And then it's like, okay, you can check out here, whereas I don't have to manually go and do that, I can just put it all in place. This is kind of like we were talking about with RSS, you know, just one, just one place and one source of truth of of one thing that I earn and everything can point in there. And yeah, I just found it on 60 plus streaming services.
So that's an insane amount but that she is on. So I guess what is the main difference between this and maybe something like So that's a problem. Distribution is obviously one problem that's in the music industry at the moment. Another one is that there is a, I guess, lack of being able to be in the money yourself. So if we think of something like Napster or MySpace, you could say, okay, well, musicians kind of had a place to put their music and a lot of people could link to it. Once again, it's not as good as RSS. I personally, I believe, but that you could have that.
But once again, how do you get paid from that now? How do you make money from this? And the current royalty range from what I once again, what I have gathered from the outside, it seems to be somewhere in like the 10 to 30% range. If you're a musician and people are playing your music, you're only getting 10 to 30% of what's actually what could potentially be coming in, which once again seems kind of insane to me, that it's so low if you're the ones who put all of this together that you only get such a small, small portion of this and which will then get divided up even further.
If you're in a band and now you have to split that 10%, what, five, six different ways or that 30%, five or six different ways. So the current royalty scheme seems to be rather unfair. And let's just take something like Spotify, which is this is one I'm reasonably confident. I know how it works. Spotify does it like this. So they earn money from users paying a premium thing. So this will be $9 a month and then there's another tier or two above that. And what they do is they kind of collect all this money and then, you know, a portion of this will get distributed to the music rights associations, all of these people who they're getting and the bigger stuff from.
So this is think like, you know, the mega bands, the Taylor Swift's The Red Hot Chilli Peppers, things like that. A lot of it will go to those record companies and then that will get distributed up, perhaps even to the artists from there, or it will just go directly to them. And so the the amount that you pay gets divvied up into all of these kind of different places. And what happens is the amount that's remaining left for all of the artists, it gets divvied up based on the amount of plays. And so those who have a lot a lot of plays, they get more money.
So once again, think of the very, very famous, most popular artists. They get a ridiculous amount. Now, what this means is if you have someone who is maybe marginally or moderately successful, maybe you get, you know, 100,000 people tuning in to music a month. And what how much do you actually get from that? Well, I believe it's somewhere in the range of 3 to $5 per thousand streams. As I've looked into it, this seems to vary widely as well because they do all these sorts of things based on the country and whatnot. And I'm going to guess that it's kind of scurries around the smaller artists as well.
So let's just say $2 per stream. If you compared this to something like the advertising model in podcasting and which for me has been really equivalent to the value for value in terms of the actual amount that I receive versus how many people have boosted in and how much you go listen to is closer to $20 per thousand. So this is where it's really intriguing. You go, okay, well, is music worth, you know, ten times less than podcasting or is is podcasting worth ten times more in terms of the actual time it creates? Did takes to create music?
I would probably say no in terms of the actual output of how it makes people feel the value that people get from it. I probably wouldn't have particularly said sorry. If anything, I would have said music is a much more powerful and medium. But you know, this is all just going to show. There does seem to be something like a little bit broken with the way that it's working. And I think mostly this is due to things on the layer which is not connected to the actual content itself, but it's all of the things around it. And so what happens is even if I have a premium Spotify thing I'm listening to exclusively, you know, artists that I really enjoy who are maybe not as mainstream, I'm almost none of my money actually goes directly to them.
It always it goes to these other artists who are getting played a lot and downloaded a lot. But it's, you know, my individual personal tastes are not going to to where I think they should be going or where I would want them to go, I suppose. But because so much of this is behind the surface, you have no idea. And so what I would just say is that the kind of like top level view, there's a lot of problems, but it's not at the technology layer, it's not at the distribution of it. So, for example, it's not that there's better sound quality on different apps.
It's not that there are better playlists necessarily. It's not that there's better algorithms. It's it's kind of like the problem. The problem is, is that the incentives and how things are getting distributed and how things are getting divvied up. And it seems to be that the smaller artists are getting a pretty shit go of it and they the amounts or the things that should be happening if they do have a loyal fan base, you know, they're thousand true fans. We've heard about this in the Kevin Kelly article. If you have 2000 true fans, you should be able to make a living from that.
And if they're willing to pay, you know, $10 a month, that's 10,000 a month that's easily liveable off. And it seems to be that those 2000 true fans, there's no easy way for them to do that through music at the moment. And what I think is going to change that is value for value music. So let's let's talk about that. So basically, what is value for value music? Well, it's being able to have your music distributed in this manner that I was talking about, where you can just put it in one place and everything can link to that. So this is using RSS and it's being able to monetise that much like we were talking about previously with the boosted grams and through micropayments, the exact same mechanism you can put in a lightning wallet and this will then be able to be a kind of source of truth for people to say, okay, if I want to contribute directly to my favourite artist, my favourite musician, this is the way where I know if I boost in or if I stream micropayments, it will go directly to them.
So if you want to know more about that, check out the previous two episodes on micropayments and on Booster grams. And so I think this is going to change revolutionise the music industry just from the simple fact of musicians are going to realise, okay, this is actually changing things and this is actually going to make them more fair for me and I can distribute it in a just simpler and easier manner rather than trying to put it on 60 streaming services. So I'm going to get into a little bit of the history, I suppose, of this. So because I've been following this pretty closely for the last year and a half and I because I think it is going to be probably one of the biggest use cases or things that really will maybe go viral from the whole podcasting 2.0 ecosystem and micropayments and things like this is this ability to do it with music because there's just something about music that people really it transforms and it creates people to do things in a more emotionally charged way than perhaps a podcast like this. So, so let's just go on to like a I guess you will, one of the first people to do this.
So and specifically I'm talking about you're a musician. You want to put your music up on somewhere, but you get like a Spotify. It's a kind of shit deal. SoundCloud, you know, Bandcamp, all of these places that they're not really, really helping me that much. And so there was two artists. One was called So Spencer, and one was called Abel Kirby, and they're both podcasters, and they created a band called Abel and The Wolf. And basically what they did is they went through the whole process of creating an album specifically just to be able to put it up as a, as a band, as a music specifically designed to be put up on RSS.
Because one of the problems is it it's not coming across super, super easy at the moment. It's not. The whole process takes a bit of time. And if you're tuning into this show, you should know like everything is of this is running with scissors. All of this is really new and it takes a bit of time to kind of work up into. And so if you want to know more about this, go check out episode 36 called a Craft of this very show because they created a podcast which was showcasing their whole design process of how they they went through this.
So episode 36 of the of the previous season of season two. And so what were some of the things they did? Well, they created a transcript which would be containing the lyrics of their song. So you can see, okay, this is showcasing something that you would maybe find in a CD of previous generations before that was the thing album Art, which they used as episode images. So for each, for each track that they had on their album, they would have an artist design a, a picture which would represent that song. And you're seeing one of those appearing up on your screen as we speak.
They had splits for the artists. So once again, this was something I was talking about with, say, in the Booster Graham's and in the streaming of payments. You can split things up directly within your feed, so you don't need to have a contract of one person gets all and all the money and then you relying on them to divvy it up and you don't rely on them. So you need a third party who, who's trusted to be able to do that. Now, in this case, it's like it's all written, baked in. If you want to give 20, if you got five bandmates and you just want to split it up evenly, you know, 20%, 20%, 20%, if you want to include more people in on that, you can or less people or one person is doing more work, you can change those and it's all beautiful.
And so that's what they did. The money was being split up and in these various ways, and it was for each individual track as well. So once again, it gets this granular level. It doesn't just have to be for I care. Well, you know, this person worked really hard on this particular song, so we were going to try and do it as a whole. Of all the money coming in, how should we do that? No, it's like, no, you can get paid directly for the work that you did. So this is really, really cool and I'm going to be playing some of their music a little bit later on as just a as a teaser for, I suppose, or showcasing of of how this works.
And so yeah, that was kind of one of the first use cases where I saw a musician actually creating this and putting it up specifically just to be used in this manner. There were a couple that had done this before, but this was probably the first that I saw where they really created it in this way. Now, one of the things that's really prompted me to talk about it on this episode and in the in the next episode as well is something called Grand Bull. And so this was created by Adam Curry, who you should know well, well, be well aware of by now.
He is the kind of co-inventor of podcasting, a former MTV veejay, and the guy who's going to spearhead spearheading, along with Dave Jones, the the podcasting 2.0 movement of of trying to make podcasting better and once again, check out the episode I did, I think three or four weeks ago called Emergence of podcasting 2.0 then. So Booster Grand Bold is basically where he highlights songs that he really enjoys, which have been put up in this manner. So it has been an artist has gone, Yep, I'm going to put it up in an RSS feed. I'm going to put in a lightning address which will showcase or will show where people can send money to.
And so what he is doing is now he's created a basically a DJ, a radio program where he is the DJ and he introduces like, you know, this is Bruce Grand Bowl. He's got all of these jingles and things and then he plays some music, you know, leads up into it. And he's a professional. He's done this professionally as a career for many, many a year before becoming a full time podcaster. Now was he? So he really knows how to create a good show that he'll lead into the music, the musical play. And as the music is playing through some just really, really cool technology, I guess the the money goes directly.
So if people are streaming in, the money goes directly to the artist then, or if they're boosting in, it goes directly to the artist, then when he comes back on, it will go to him. Then when he, you know, talks a little bit and then he plays the next song, it'll go to that, that next artist. And so basically he's created three shows at this very moment, each of these being roughly about an hour long, and he's playing about ten shows per episode. So we can see, okay, this is really cool because it solves a couple of things. The discoverability component, you know, if he's playing a show on there, this is how radio has always, always worked.
If you hear a really cool song on the radio, it's like, Oh man, I want to listen to more of that. I'm going to go out and buy this CD or I'm going to listen or stream and more. And I think this is where the madness is going to kick off, because I can really see this just expanding as musicians realise, Oh wow, I'm actually getting paid for for people listening to my music because there's people out there like me who have a very much kind of disposition towards, Yes, if I'm listening to something, I want to pay for it. And so would would I rather spend, you know, $9 a month on Spotify or would I rather spend $9 a month streaming directly to people who I think they deserve it? I'm going to do it my way and I'm going to stream in to music that I listen to and I'm going to stream in or boost into shows like Adams, which showcase music and is kind of a way for me to discover it.
So very, very, very cool on that point. And the thing is, this is, this is all I would say I would say kind of revolutionary as I was referring to at the start, because he's he's tried this once before and he never got it off the ground because it was just too hard with the record labels, with the right associations, all looking at podcasting and it's like, No, no, you can't do that because we can't see where this money goes. You know, you get this money, you have to send it to us. And it was just too much of a hassle. There was just too many too many barrier points with with, I suppose, the money side of things.
And I think that's get solved by the direct peer to peer nature of one, it being peer to peer. So there's no middleman involved, there's no trust needed and to with the functionality of being able to split things up in various ways, there's there's going to be less have the hassle of, oh you didn't send me this mount, you know, you got more than me, this sort of thing. It's like, no, it's all there, it's all laid out. And if if you have a problem with that, you should have brought that up as we were typing in or who's going to get what amount of split.
So I think this will change things a lot. With that. Before I go on to some of the the fundamental point why I think this is really going to work, I just want to give a shout out to Ainsley and a couple of stats that we've just seen across these various different shows. So I've got a tweet from her here. Once again, this will be appearing up on your screen as we speak. And so Ainsley Costello, she's a young musician in the United States. I'm not exactly sure where she is from. I think probably the Nashville area or she is she lives in the Nashville area at the moment.
And so she was just posting on July 25th. So she had posted up her music on Wave Lake and it kind of one of her songs called Cherry on Top, really. It got people into to like, Oh, wow, this is this is a great song. I want to play more of it. And so she said for five days on on that she got 180,372 SATs, which was equal to about 52 U.S. dollars and on for the whole of April 20, 23 on 60 plus streaming services, she got $22. So we can even see just from that little example there. Okay, she got double roughly in in these lightning payments from people directly streaming to her and boosting to her.
Yeah, she got a lot lot more. Now the funny thing is, you know this was what, three weeks ago. It's basically ten next that amount. So I know she's passed the 1 million sets range and I'm certainly sure that that other number of the 60 plus streaming services hasn't ten. So just for her she actually had a hit song and people loved it and they boosted in and they streamed in and it was a ridiculous amount more than she would have got just from being on all of these other platforms where they do take their cut and where it isn't distributed evenly and fairly based on people and how much they enjoy that music.
And so once again, this is just getting to the point where I think like V for V music, someone like her where she has something like that happen, she's going to she's going to tell her friends about it like she's going to she's going to be like, Wow, this is something completely different compared to the grinding away that I've been doing on all of these other platforms. So that was just a one little use case there. And then I want to go on to some stats that Adam Curry himself published, which was just what was happening from the Bristol Grand Bowl.
And so he says, here's what podcasting 2.0 has done for value for value music. On just three episodes of music and bowl over 4 million sets and to the artists. And then he's got a breakdown here of how this has been done by apps. And we can see that there was through Boucher like custom and accurate cost offence and podcast index pod friend pod verse and the split kit. So this has all gone directly to artists, which is equal to close to 1,200 USD. So that's a fair bit in Australian dollars as well. It'd be like 600, 1700, something like that. So we can see.
Okay, there's doesn't use case for this and it's not just middling money. That was what, 30, you know, roughly 30 tracks being distributed. And what's that 1200. So that's like, you know, 40 bucks a song. You know, imagine if you you had your song get played once on the radio and you got 40 bucks for it like that. That would be pretty damn good. And there's more some more complexities coming up with with all of these things. And I will definitely be talking about that in the next episode because there is quite a few complex things, but I think this is all just showcasing that.
Yeah, value for value music there is a need for it and one for it and then drive for it and people are willing to pay to pay for it. And I think artists are going to be the beneficiary of this because they have been some of the ones who've been screwed out of I think just in a this is yet, you know what I would say it's an an unfair system. And so I think this is a more fair one for sure. Before I get into my my final fundamental points, why I think this is really going to change and how this kind of relates to podcasting as well. I did just want to play the Cherry on top song from Aynsley Costello, and this will also be an example of how how we can do value for value music even on this very show, on this very episode.
So I'm going to let Ainsley take it away and I'll be right back soon.
[00:26:16] Unknown:
Oh no. Oh, does. Guys, I know that you. Know that I knew about you play, but you had to go to every. One of my attention that you had and one. But I bet you're wondering why killing all nine doesn't hurt my back like you thought it was okay for me to lie, to get good. You put food on the table, leave it out. Try. She loved me. I said this. Hear what she said. I'm sorry. I know that if I did, I would say Go to the. Corner of the room. Because I know that you are used to having it all. Given back to. You. And though it might be shelved in the same cry like a little boy might deserve a third of doses of COVID, I don't feel the pain.
When I first met your mother, I remember. Right. Well, she'll be me. Some wine. Sorry, I'm dry. I'll. I'll sa. I'll. I'll will. Honey, I know that all is well. Or maybe I don't know, but I have to tell you. See, the way can handle this place at the end of the day. But you may, but I'll leave it out. Right. Well I've all get together reaction that you want different areas of your life. Put it out right. Oh shit. I want your reaction. This one. I'm sorry. I'm down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got
[00:29:03] Unknown:
all right, pumps. Thank you, Ainsley, for allowing me to play that on this show. Let's get into the fundamental point before I get onto the final booster gram lounge. So the value of a value system works on goodwill. I think this is something that I've established kind of right from the start. You know, it's goodwill on my part to put this up on for free this, this episode, this everything that I do, you know, you never have to pay for it. I'm always going to be the one giving you the value straight up. And that's always how it's going to work. And I think we can take this further where it's like, you know, I'm now relying on your goodwill to your conscience to say, Did I enjoy this value for value?
So did I enjoy this value for value music? And I ask that you just send it back into me and I hope that you do that now. I think this is going to require some fundamental changes and maybe the way people view things. So artists, for example, they're going to have to give up complete control over their music when they put it up on some of these services. On on RSS, you're kind of just releasing it out to the wild. It's now like if people want to play it on a radio show, they're going to do that. If they want to remix it, they're going to do this. The, you know, it is kind of just like a little bit of loosening of the reins of no control of just like here have at it now.
I think a lot of people are keen for this and will do this anyway because, you know, the unknown undiscovered. And when you're like that, you just want anyone to play it or hear it in any manner whatsoever. So there is a kind of goodwill on their part where it's like, okay, I'm just going to put this up and see what happens. There is somewhat of an expectation that if you're a podcaster and your creating a DJ radio show like this, like Adam Corey was doing with Boost to Grand Bull that you put in the correct split or at least put in a split of some sort so that the artist, you're not just taking their music and just playing it there is an expectation.
It's not I don't think it will ever be enforced. Know, maybe we'll talk more about that in the complexities later on in the next episode. But there is at the very least, an expectation that that will happen. There's an expectation that the listeners will give back and that they will do that. Now, not everyone is going to do that. So of course not every podcaster is going to put it in the split for that for the music that they're playing. But for the most part, for the most part, you would you would expect this. I think everyone is included as well.
This is another fundamental point where just through the nature of of how you can you can send money in this way using the Lightning Network with Bitcoin and potentially with others in the future. It doesn't particularly have to be this, but at the very moment it is, everyone can get included so the bandmates, they can be put in split. If you have someone who you know, the studio which you recorded at, they can be put in the split. You can have the people who are financing you whilst you're in a retreat and creating an album. They can be put in the split app.
Developers can get a percentage for giving a great experience. So I think it bypasses a lot of entrenched middlemen that you had already seen in the music industry, and it's incentivising everyone to to do the right thing. Everyone gets a piece of the pie by creating something better. And I think what we're going to see is we're going to see music apps do something that will look like a music app and will be only just for music. I think these things will start to pop up in the future and we're already kind of starting to see some, but none that are really, really distinct as of yet because as I just mentioned, most of the ways that people are doing it at the moment is via a podcasting app, and that's just not the best experience for playing music.
And it would be better to have a music app much like you have YouTube music or Spotify or any of the other ones which are more suited directly for the music experience because it does matter. The experience. So I think this is all going to change because everyone can get a cut, can get a split. And then finally, even just going back to the second episode of the season, which was talking about the four different properties, I think this satisfies all of them. So it's one you know, it's decentralised. You can put up your music in one place, but anyone can access that from anywhere.
So this is using the RSS feed. So if I just put up my music in this one place, I don't have to now go and put it up in a ridiculous number of places. And on the self sovereignty aspect, you know, I can own my own music and this is pretty important. You need to be able to own your own music to be able to put it up into it like this so that it satisfies that permissionless. You know, I don't have to ask Spotify to put my music up if it contains naughty words, if it contains this, if it deals with themes which are perhaps taboo, you know, once again, you don't have to beg anyone to be able to put your music up or for them to play or for even just outside influences to come in and say, you know, your style.
I think it would be better if you started singing about things which are more suited to a demographic, you know, couple of years a decade younger than you and all these sorts of things. I think I think you can bypass a lot of that if you if you want to be a more pure creative and put it up in a in a place just where it is, you don't have to ask permission. You don't have to bend to the music industry's whims and wills and kind of sell your soul. And then finally, the value transfer, of course, is when you're doing it through RSS, you are doing it through this established way.
I think it is going to make a big, big difference on that aspect. So yeah, who let me go for the music. I hope I have done a reasonable job of explaining what it is and why it's important and why I think it's rather revolutionary. So let's get into the boosta gram lounge this week and then we'll yeah, we'll have a couple of more tips and things like that. So let's take it away. Adam Curry
[00:35:40] Unknown:
Welcome to the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Alrighty, the Boosta Gram Lounge, here we go. So pro tip number one, it's important to check you'll have Booster Grams if you checked in last week. You'll see that I missed a couple that were there. So apologies for Who was that? Robert Suzuki and China for only doing that at the end this week. I am reasonably sure that there's no live ones come in. So thank you for those two though. So we did get three boosts from this last week. So I'm just going to read these out and I'm going to try it in the lowest to the highest. So we've got Coach McCormack here coming in.
I feel like I caught a wave with v4v this week. Thanks for the shout out, bro. New World Order. So I was going to talk about him, but I might have actually missed that in my notes. Yeah, sorry I did. So Ainsley had a chat with Coach McCormick on this show, America Plus I think it was a really great interview because one the age level. So a reasonably close calls, actually a pretty good interview. All of the first time I've heard him really doing an interview. And I think he absolutely nailed it. He knows a lot about value for value. He knows a lot about the creative aspect because he himself is kind of more of like a filmmaker, artist, that type of thing.
And yeah, I just think that was a great interview. So if you want to know more about Ainsley Costello and just the the experience she had with V for V music, I would recommend checking out his show in that. So you did Cat Indeed Catch a Wave and it's awesome to see that. So that was five 492 sent using fountain that is his favourite number. Thank you. Cool. We've got another one here from Macintosh. Boost, boost, Boost. One quick note, I sought my boost app by episode when I get boost from more than one episode and I think you mentioned that as a presentation.
I do like Kohl's idea of smallest to largest build the tension. Macintosh So thank you very much. Macintosh. Then you add a little one emoji in there as well, and that was 10,309 sets and using fence and yeah, this is probably going to be I'm really interested to see how this would be in the future because at the moment, from all the shows that I've seen, it very much does seem that people are boosting in for the latest. By and large, I'm really keen to see, you know, say Joe Rogan got on to podcasting to follow. Would there be people boosting in old shows?
Old ones? And what I have noticed is when I was doing this with podcasting 2.0 and I was catching up and I was boosting old episodes, they themselves didn't really get it as much because I was boosting something from, you know, months ago that you're talking about months ago. So it does make it of harder like that. So I think it is going to be very much based around the latest episodes, and that's probably just how it will work. I think that's how the value for value model particularly works. But we'll have to see. And this can perhaps even be a maybe a detriment to music, which is unless you're constantly putting out new music, maybe you don't get some of the the royalties because people are like, Oh, I've listened to this show 500 times.
This episode, this music 500 times before. I'm not going to pay for this one. I think that can be overcome. But yeah, it's is something to look out for, for sure. And yeah, I will mention that in the future. Thank you. I, I've always just read him out kind of willy nilly to be honest. And then finally coming in The Godfather himself at Carrie and his 1999 in his fountain handle. I'm not sure why. This is another great episode explaining the Valley Value model exclamation mark, 25,000 SATs and music fountain. We thank you very much, Adam. And once again, the Bridge to Grand Bowl.
I would really recommend people checking out that show Macintosh also has one called Generation Bitcoin. If you want to know more about the Bitcoin aspect and that booster Grand Bowl, it's it's a really good show. It's worth checking out even if you have no interest in the sending of money back and forth of supporting artists or anything. It's worth it just in terms of being a radio show itself. He's he's a pro. He's really, really good at it. And there's a couple of more shows cropping up and I'll maybe try and get to them in the next week's episode.
So that is the best gremlins for this week. I really, really thank you. Thank you, everyone who sent that in. I was doing a couple of like quick calculations and I think I need to get around. I think it was probably about 500,000 sets to over the course of this year to kind of make up how much it costs to host the show. So I would really love to to try and get to that. So this is a huge boost to getting that. So thank you. Thank you very much for the the three people who did that and everyone who was extremely in as well, because I did see some streams coming in.
Let's jump into some tips and I'm going to say from this week, the tip is obviously going to be related to value for value music. A lot of it is how you present it to musicians as well. I saw a bit of chatter on the podcast index and it evangelising is not the way to go about this kind of going out to people in their face about it. And it's it's hard because you can be enthusiastic about a thing, obviously, like I am for podcasting and for for value, for value music, but it's best not to just shove it in their face. And I've found that for me personally, asking about the problems and have fixed them for myself via podcasting two point out, has been the best way to do it.
And then if they are a musician themselves, you know, putting like a little cheeky right hook at the end of, Oh, and by the way, there's a music version of this is probably the best way of going about it. So even though it's not particularly fun, I think focusing on the problems and then highlighting a solution of something that, you know, that works, you, I think that that works a lot better than trying to dive right in and be like, Have you tried this thing? Put your music app on here and this will happen and it's awesome because of these, you know, because it's decentralised and self-sovereign and you know, a lot of people just don't care about it.
And a lot of people, there's just so many different steps to, to get into it, you know, what is an RSS feed, what is Bitcoin, what are micropayments, what is the problem? It's easier just to start with what I think they, they know as a problem and what they've experienced themselves. And honestly, that's the best way that I've found of of going about this and in highlighting these sorts of things. So yeah, just a little pro tip that evangelising no one really enjoys it and yet even though you're enthusiastic about it, just, just be mindful of how you are coming across because I certainly have been guilty in the past of Yeah, yeah.
You know, like testing it out for sure and telling people about things but it, it doesn't, it doesn't always work and sometimes it doesn't come across that great. So that is my tip for this week. App or service highlight. I've purposely stayed away from a lot of linkages to things how you can exactly do this as a musician, as a listener. So I will I'll give just a broad one here, which is probably like a basic good stop point is wave like so w i v l.a k e so if you go to wave like dot com, I think they've got some pretty just it's it's an easy experience for those who want to now now know more about the all sides of the equation because it is useful to be able to listen to and it's also useful to be able to sign up if you are a musician.
And so basically like if you go to the website, turn up the value for your biggest fans. We envision a new online world where creators and listeners can freely transact with one another in an open ecosystem so relatively easy. And then it's got some talking about how it's easy publishing, universal distribution and what it's all built on, which is like in payments. And they're very, very easy. If you go to the website, there's a play button right down the bottom so you can start listening to something immediately. And if you're a musician, you can start going to the about section and learning more there. So that's probably just the the easiest way at the moment for just beginning aspect.
Next week we'll get into the more complex things and, and kind of how a lot of this stuff works under the hood. So yeah, we've, we've explored that and a lot of the concepts. Next week I'll just be able to refer to and say check out this episode. So that is my app and service highlight. Let's finish off with some value for value as usual, I give 15% of each episode to particular people in addition to the 5% that is going to some developers. So 5% goes to the podcast Intex slash fountain. And this week I'm going to give 5% to the three people who I'm going to play music for.
So I've already played Ainsley's song and I'm also going to play the song Making Beans from Abel and the Wolf. And I'll give 5% to Spencer and 5% to Abel Kerby for this. These once again, I'm trying to just highlight here how music it's it's got this ineffable quality to it. It's it's something passionate. It's something that people really care about and are willing to spend a lot of time and money and just investment of things into. And, you know, I don't have the access to a lot of the complex things which I could do this in a better way. So when you are listening to just their music, all of the money goes directly to them.
So instead I'm just going to have to do this kind of basic way. And the reason I can do this is once again, the good will. I know assessments are and Albuquerque, I've talked to them before. I've asked them before to do music, and I have indeed played music on one of my shows. So it just so so I've got some credits. I was talking about this probably a year ago, I think in in an episode which I titled Decentralised Music on the memorial. So I'll, I'll Yeah. Include a link to that somewhere and the Yeah. Just, just the aspect of okay, I know these people, I talk to Ainsley as well, I was like you know, do you mind if I play a song?
I want to be able to do it in the complete correct way. And she's just like, Yeah, yeah, please, please do. So 5% of this is going to her to suspense and to applicable for the 15%. Once again, a lot of this relies on kind of the goodwill of thinking that, okay, the pie is going to grow. It's it's not a zero sum game. People love these things. The more people know about it, the better it gets. So, yeah, until next week we will be talking more about the complexities and maybe some of the problems which will be coming up and some of the solutions to those problems as well.
But until then, I really just want to thank you for joining me for another episode, the Value for Value Show. And I'm going to let Sir Spencer and Able Kirby take it away with their band Able and The Wolf. And the song is Making Beans and.
[00:47:23] Unknown:
I can't Sit Still because it's so Will. They're talking to me, but I can't know what it means. It's hard to pay attention when you're busy making things upstairs. I'm busy making big and I'm staff react fine, you know what I mean? And these people come to see you and that's the part. Some more or it's a better. Way is it stood there and they're here and and. And. Now I know I live in a hall. In a tree scalp of me on screen. I mean, all these people sure were nice to me when they dragged. Me down Dolly on the stage at all. Well, no, I know where Anon calls me.
They just make it big and I'm very fine, you know what I mean? And all these people come up and it's their first concert still.
