What are the benefits of willing listeners eager to contribute? In Ep#51 we're going to compare the similar ethos between OS/V4V, how to properly acknowledge volunteers and a focus on the talent of the 3T's.
Huge thanks to Sam Sethi & Steve Webb for supporting the show. Every contribution counts!
15% of this episode is going to Steven Crader for his documentation and rock solid work in improving podcasting.
Handy links:
Revolution OS Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8K460vx1c
Boostagram Numerology Github: https://github.com/Podnews-LLC/boostagram-numerology/tree/main
Value 4 Value Support:
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Unknown:
What are the benefits of willing listenerseager to contribute? So welcome everyoneto another episode of the Valuefor Value show. My name is Kyrin. Hostof the Mere Mortals podcast. The Mere Mortalsbook Reviews, but also this show, which is for digitalcontent creators and those who are willing wanting to connect deeperwith their audience and also monetisetheir products, perhaps in the way that is a little bitoutside of the ordinary. Not using the paywalloption of Patreon and not using the optionof advertising, but using value for value,which is essentially getting supportfrom your listeners who are willing and eagerto contribute to you.
So yes indeed, the topic for today we're goingto be talking about and today I am recording on the 27thof September 2023. I do these live as well,so I always appreciate if you want to come joinwith that. There's some details inthe show notes about that. And today we're going to be talkingabout the open source revolutionthat's upon us. So what is this concernand why is this related to value for value? So I'm actually relativelynew to open source. And I'll go more into the, I suppose, definitionof that shortly. But I've I've always been a rathernon-technical person.
And so now all of these thingsabout open source software and debuggingand namespaces and things like this, I'vealways really struggled. When I first startedinteracting with it, I really struggledto understand. And so basically opensource is creating software code which is availableto the public and anyone can contributeto it. And, and it is freein the sense of freedom, not necessarily in the sense of the actualsoftware is free. And or at leastthere's it's you can monetisearound it. And so they'll be talking a little bitabout the history of this. I'm going to go over some of the reasons why I think the ethosof the open source community is very similarto value for value as well as just talking aboutwhy people contribute.
And we'll lookat the talent part of the three TS as well. So podcasting 2.0 was my real introduction to the open source communityand doing things out in the open. And it wasreally interesting to me and I found myselfdiving further into it and learningmore about the ethos. This was at the same timeI was learning about value for value and meantI really have dived in. I've almost did my firstpull request recently. I was trying to update the update the boostagram number numerology and I waswhich James Cridland actually owns on aon a GitHub. I didn't manage to do it, but I will do thatshortly afterwards.
But open source actually affects quite a few peopleand it almost certainly has affected you. So if you have ever usedMozilla Firefox, if you've ever used office, if you've ever usethe VLC media player, if you've ever used a laptop with IP on itor python or shortcut KANU blend,what else do we have? Apache web, The audacity. And of course I mentioned Linuxand which is basically on every Android phone. So if you've ever touchedan Android phone, you have used some opensource software. At some point and you'dnever really notice this. And it's it'skind of hidden in the backgrounda lot of the times, which is sort of what I think Visa V is going to becomeat times.
It's you'll have thisability to to connect with your audienceand you won't know all of the thingsabout Bitcoin that's going onbehind the surface, which is happeningwith a lot of these podcasting 2.0 apps and you won't knowexactly how it works. All you know is, Oh, I got a messagedirectly from someone and there was a value of moneyattached to it. Wow, that was super cool. Or Oh, this personreached out to me and they lefta really nice comment. And, you know, it'sbecause it doesn't have all of the spamtype behaviour, which you'll seeon YouTube comments.
It's actuallya valuable comment, something that wasworthwhile and interesting and intriguing. And if you want to knowmore about these, go back to the previousepisodes on Boost aGrams and the streaming of statsand things like that, which you could findearlier in the season in episodes43 and 44. So we can see, okay, there's opensources is upon us. We'reencountering it every day. How does this actuallyrelate to valuefor value and why? Why are they similar? So I'm going to go overa couple of properties here, which I have donein my bit of research over this past week because I didn'treally know much aboutthe history of it. And it's it's actually prettyfascinating going into it.
And what really helped me was this documentarycalled Revolution OS, which was a documentary,and a lot of it showcases thethe starting of how people were usingsoftware. This is basically likethe geeks and the nerds. And when they werefirst creating software, it was in this openenvironment. No one had passwords on their laptops and they because they would just or on their computers, I guessyou'd call them back then and they because there was no need toeveryone was just would just contribute. And even when they didset it up, one of the guys,Richard Stallman, who I'll talkmore about shortly, would just hackinto the database and then find everyone's passwordand then email and be like, Hey,just so you know, like your passwordis blah, blah, blah.
But it's much easier to just press the into buttonbecause obviously it's tongue in cheekbecause he's he's saying saying and showing how the abilityto share software just becauseyou have a password one doesn't mean it'snecessarily secure. And it's a kind of a barrier to the ethosof of sharing publicly. So open source code and this is just a reading here from a little website,open source code is usually stored in a public repositoryand shared publicly. Anyone can accessthe repository to use the codeindependently or contributeimprovements to the design and functionalityof the overall project.
So we can see thatokay, having a password is not helping, that it's actually a hindranceto people coming in. And so there wasthis thing called the Free Softwaremovement, which was started bythis guy Richard Stallman. And free actually inthis case doesn't refer to price Free is very much about the libertyto access the code to change it for anyoneto have access to it. And if you go and learn more about the freesoftware movement, he's kind of got these principleswhich he lays out and they're very muchrelated to liberty and personal choiceand things like this.
And essentially it's theability to change, adapt, use or not use without restrictiveIP and licensing. And so I think coined this term the copyleftinstead of the copyright, which is theand this is coming from that documentary,a, quote, inalienableright to cooperate with other peopleand form a community. And so that was from this guy,Richard Stallman, the Free softwareMovement founder. And I think this isexactly what is happening withvalues in value music. For example, if you lookat the adaptability of of what's happening, someoneis putting up their music, for example,and once again, go back to some of the previousepisodes where I talked about value for value musicand how this operates.
So this is going backto episode 45 and 46. This is where you can see, okay,someone is putting up something they've created, so they'veput in some hardware and created something and now they're putting itinto an RSS feed and basically just saying if anyone wants to usethis, adapt it, do what they want to it,they can please just givesome accreditation. And this is where it comes to the licensingsort of aspect, because with with this software,open source software, it usually comeswith a distribution license and the licenseincludes terms that define how developerscan use study, modify and most importantly,distribute the software.
So it's not necessarily free inthe sense of you can do whatever you want with it,you can change it, not give accreditation to to the personwho has created or steal it directlyor things like this. There are a lot of nuanceswith this, which is exactlywhat is the same with V. For V, it'sa lot of nuance, but essentially what I see is it'svery similar in that someone puts upa piece of software source code software, someone puts upsome music, other people can see thatadapt it, and so they can add lines that codeand then they can either with with some of thelicenses, some of them say if you change it enough, you need to then call itsomething different so that the original person is not getting,I guess, tainted with your with whatyou've changed to it because you could be putting malware into it and they don't want their name associated with that.
Or you could just be doingminor alterations to improve some bugs,which is, you know, a good thing. Value for value music if someoneputs the music up and then I put it into a Vfor V Jace show. So this is like a value for value music showwhere I'm maybe talking over it, maybe I've done like a coupleof scratches, maybe I'm jumping in and outand being like, Yeah, here comes the bang. A part 2 to 2. Obviouslyyou're changing the music. You're adapting it because you're addingyour extra audio on top of it,or perhaps you've done a remixor something like this, but we can see, okay, thisis it's the same ethos.
Someone'sputting something up and just saying, Hey,I've created this thing, why don't you use it?You can adapt it, you can do these thingsto it. And obviously there'sgoing to be some nuances. And I would actuallyimagine if value for value musickind of gets as big as I thinkit's going to get, there's probably going to need to besome licenses and different typesof licenses. Oh yeah, You can use itin this sense or you can only use it if you're including meas a 90% split or my value block,as is 90% of it. So I get 90% of any incomecoming in from people listening to your show,which is it?
Using my music. So I think this has gota very similar use case of value for value. And I do the samewith my show here. Like I put it out there, if anyone wants to createclips from it, if they want to adapt it,do anything they want to it,that's awesome. If they want to rip off the entire show and then put iton Spotify. Yeah, okay. I'm not happywith that person. Hey. And so this is where it'slike, yeah, there is some boundary pointsthat can be crossed, but once again,the nuances, it's the, the spirit behind it of, of sharing thingspublicly.
And I think that's a very nobleambition and something that actually in the best in the long term actually distributesthings, makes it more widely available. So another point here, which we haveis contribution. So open sourceis all about others contributingto make it better. And this can be done on asomewhat voluntary basis or they can be compensatedfor it. So, you know, no financial gain orthey actually have some. And we can see thisin in various aspects, various aspects of valuefor value as well. Alex Gates, for example,he contributed the topic for this week.
He was the onewho suggested I do open source softwareor open source and on the valuefor value show and how that relatesto value for value. And you know, that wasa great suggestion because I probablywouldn't have done thatwithout him. I wouldn'thave done the research to do this very showwithout him, him saying that. And so then lookingat that and then saying, okay, you know,I do something similar with the valuefor value splits as well with this very show. So if you look into thethe value block for this, you'll see I've got twowhich are at 1%, one is for the blue spotby C Dubs and another is by the fountain blue spot,which is just a service that I add on to this becauseI find it beneficial.
It's surfaceboostagrams in a waythat I personally can't do and highlights themin a different way. And I'm willing to compensatepeople for that and they just askthat they get put into the splits. And this is very muchhow open sourcesoftware works as well. People contribute, they make things better,and then they're not trying to lock down the softwareitself. Anyonecan get access to it, but it does take effort,time to learn these things and you can make iteasier. Yeah, sure. I'll cometo your workplace and I'll help install itfor you. I'll train up your staff so they know how to use the Linuxoperating system or Debian or whatever it is that they're running on their particularcomputers and servers.
And so I think this aspectof contribution is very much importantto do value for value as well. Someone can help contribute to this show in in variousdifferent ways and I'll talk moreabout that at the end in this case, we've seenthat Fountain and C Dubs have done it through a softwareas a service sort of way. They've created somethingI could never create. I don't know how to code, I don't know how to do thesethings, and I'm compensating themfor that. And then Alex Gates or Sir Alex Gates has contributed to this showby giving me a topic which I wouldn't have thoughtabout otherwise, but I'm not going tocompensate for this one.
And so you can kind of seethere's these these two aspectswhich are very, very much similarwith them, open source. And so, yeah, very,very interesting to to see that kind of parallelthere. Another oneis transparency, and you can actually makea better product when anyone can viewall the bugs messiness and how the sausage ismade. And so in this revolutionarydocumentary it was talking aboutthis guy called Eric Rayment,who sort of honestly is probably like it's kind of similar to mein that he's kind of like a little bit of a philosopherwhilst also tryingto do practical things.
And so he wrote this manifesto,I guess you'd call it, called the Cathedraland the Bazaar, and it was basically a a document,a paper that he wrote, which is sort ofin a book form as well, talking about how he wasarguing in this, that by creatingusing open source and having people coming into the actual code itself, you'regetting more eyes on it, you're getting more peoplelooking at it, you're getting more peoplefixing it as compared to a companywith closed software who only have a limitednumber of developers and they have to be,you know, they're on a time schedule.
They're on a pay. If they don't get paid,they're not going to be working on it. And he was justessentially saying that in the long run, actually open sourcing your code does createa better product because you havemore people doing this. And I believethe same applies to to content creation. When you start having ads and sponsorsentering the picture, I think this startsto shift. I think your productsthat you're creating becomes diluted. And this is not a newobservation. People over the many years have talkedabout how, you know, art becomesmainstream or commercialisedand then it's it loses that essence that made itthis underground thing that was so vibrant,so passionate, so interesting and unique.
And then itit becomes mainstream. It becomes, you know, kind of corrupted by all of the influencesof people saying, Oh, you should probably not talk about thison this show. You might not want to dothis. And it's not like itruins it necessarily, but the misaligned incentives that we were talking aboutfrom the last episode, I thinkto start to crop up, you see on the open source side of thingsor on the business side of things, of software, if something is closedsource, you tend to get these monopolieslooking at you, Microsoft or this lockedin behaviour where you you offer it to someone and then it becomesan integral part of the of the company that isusing the software.
And then you start not supportingprevious versions. So they have to upgradeand then you're, you've got kind of likepoor customer support because they don't haveany other option. They have to use you. So if you only wantto hire five customersupport people when you really need ten,well it's like, well, too bad you just going to haveto deal with that company becauseyou're locked in. And in allof these cases, it's creating a worse product for the personwho wants to use it in the softwareside of things. And I mean personally,my belief is that the more ads you start to addin, the more sponsors, the more outside influencesthat you have on your show probably are going to havethis type of behaviour where it is lockingyou in, where you are doing thingsthat I think just create a worse product.
And so having thistransparency of, look, this is how I dothe value for value. So you can see exactly who is influencing me and how muchthey're influencing me because I read outall the boostagrams and because I acknowledgethe support. And in this case,if I do start talking about thisparticular topic, you know, it's it'sbecause either I want to or because I've been influenced in a waywhich you can see it's the kind of thingshidden behind the surface, which are the leads to worse outcomes,I personally believe. So we've gotthe adaptability, we've gotthe contribution, we'vegot the transparency.
And then the far final onehere was the meritocracy. And so only the softwarethat people want and adopt and adopt will actually survivelong term. So just becausesomething is open source doesn'tmean it's good. You know that there's plenty of bugs,there's plenty of things that make itkind of crappy. And it's it's very much if we look at podcasting2.0, for example, if there wasn'ta desperate need for from people like mewho wanted to create a better product,who wanted to be able to connect with their audience in ain a more peer to peer manner,being able to do it through the actualpodcasting apps themselves instead of havingto direct them to go on to Instagram or go onto Facebookand do this thing and then connect with methere, I'm much it just makesso much more sense to be able to do itwithin the app.
Why can't we do itthat way? Okay, well, we don't haveall the infrastructure. A namespace sets of rulesto for app developers to be able to do this. All right, let's let's doit. Let's create it. And that's exactlywhat Adam Curry and Dave Jones did. And you know, if people didn't wantthat, it wouldn'thave taken off. It would have diedon the vine. Podcasting, too, when I would havehad 15 shows and then it wouldhave been like, eh, nothing's really happeninghere. Okay, All right. Let's let's call it that. Instead, what has happenedis there's been a super vibrant,vibrant community formed.
There's a lot of peopleworking to create apps to talk about valuefor value. Me here, you know, there's peoplewho are great at code, there's people who are greatat advertising, there's peoplewho are great at finding hidden podcasts. The Swedish tricolour,for example, there's people who aregreat at documentation, which is very necessaryfor developers to be able to useall sorts of things. We can see theso many people who want to contribute, who are willing to contribute, and it'sthe contribution that that provides the value,I guess, and the same sort of thing.
If you have acompany, for example, that a show. So let's look at it. In this case, there's you've gota company that has created a service aroundsome open source software. If the software is not getting picked up, ifLinux was not being used, the companies that werecreated back in the day, I can't remember some ofthem from this Revolution documentary, they would have gonenowhere. They would have one was called Linux VA,for example. It had a big stock pricething, it iPod. And what you couldkind of see was like it just kind of went downover time.
Now this was probablydo a lot to the the dotcom bubble burst that that happenedaround that time. But there wereother companies that did IPO redhot for example, whichstill exists to this day and is still thriving. And you know, it isrelated to the marketplace and not having monopoliesor outside controlon on a fair market, which typically tends tolead to to worse outcomes. So, for example, on the podcastingside of things, if you have a showby a company designedto sell a product, that's probablygoing to need some outside source of revenueto keep that show going.
So for example,let's just take Nike and they've got a podcastrelated to selling the newest Nikeshoes, the newest Nike natural brandthat's coming up. You'reprobably not going to want to use value for value. I'm not sure value for value will really workfor a show like that because they've gota very explicit purpose of of selling you something. The I guess like thethe show is it's more of asales device rather than somethingwhich is designed to to bring valueto the customers, to the the peoplelistening to the podcast. It's it'sactually more designed to take value from them.
It's trying to get them to to buythe newest piece of shoe or the newest shirtor something like that. And so in that case,it's it's more of a extractive value. So it probably needsI'm not sure value for value would workfor a show like that. Whereasif you have other shows, hopefully like this one,which are trying to providevalue in that sense and then just askingfor value to be returned, you know, if, if I do the showfor ten years and I it doesn't take off,people aren't getting value from it. You know,that's just the market. That's just like,all right, well, people actually didn't wantwhat I'm creating here and they didn'tvalue it enough.
And so the show goes awayand, you know, there's no there'sno problems with that. And I have no problemswith the, you know, the Niketype podcast who are tryingto sell things. That's just advertising,that's marketing. That's, you know, how youget a product out there. I just don't thinkthat will work super successfully or would even work at allwith value for value. And so when you've got this kind of meritocracyof the best software, it's open source,it's out there, anyone can use itand contribute. If people don't like thatproject, they're not going tocontribute.
It dies on the vine, very similar to a showdoing value for value. If it's a showwhich is providing value, it is making thingsbetter. People will contributeback to that. There'sno doubt about that. And it's just how much. And if that will serve youover time as well, that kind of meritocracy,I think it will could almost call itthe free market, if you want of value for value is sortof the free market. If if it's a if it's a crappy product,no one's listening, no one wants it,it's going to go away. And this is where,you know, the onus is on meto actually create somethingthat's good.
I do hope thatI create something which is valuablethat helps people out. And so yeah, that's I suppose the four mainaspects that I see for creating something, the,the ethos that is matched between valuefor value and open source before I get ontothe Instagram lounge and I did want to makeone more point about the incentivesfor contributing as well and a little story timehere. So I do the minimalist podcastwith my co-host one. We've been doing thatfor years now and have you know, we'vegradually I've basically beenshowing him about the value for value,about podcasting, 2.0 open source,this sort of thing.
And we always are tryingto come up with new ways for people to incentivise peopleto contribute to the show and to create more valuefor the show. And he was suggesting,like, Oh, okay, what if we do this thing for in Octoberor Yeah, in October we do a pay backto listeners. So if someone boostsin a certain amount, well then put themin the value block for the next monthand that way they'll be, it can be kind of likea game type of deal where if the morethey contribute, the more they could get contributionsfrom the past. And it's kind of like, you know,if you look at it that way, it'salmost leading to the the the Ponzi economics style, you know,taking from others to pay backthe original people.
And I was when he first suggestedthis, I was I waskind of off the bat like, I'm notnot a big fan of that one because it does havethat sort of feel of the taking from others to payfor the original people to then get them to,you know, and I it a lot of incentivesand gamification is about just doing things to make people do things,even if it's not necessarilyin their best interest or I mean,I guess you could say, you know, actuallyI'll take that back because who knowswhat's in someone's best interestif they want to play, spend their whole lifeplaying video games, like please go at it.
Just be aware thatthat's what you're doing. You are spendingyour whole life playing video games,you know, 5 hours, 10 hoursa game a day. And I look,I love it as well. I'm very fascinated by thehistory of Speedrunning. I watch videos on themall the time. And you know, there arepeople who will dedicate thousands ofhours to just playing one level of a game overand over and over again. But in this case,I was going, yeah, I'm not I'm notso sure on that. I'm not too happyabout that. And I couldn't exactly say whyit was what in particular that that made me go, Yeah,but when I was thinking about this more,I realised what it was.
And so I'mgoing to actually give a suggestion here of some learning A I've taken from a podcastcalled Volunteer Technologist Spike Guycalled Gene Liberman, and if you ever seenboosting around it's name is Gene Bean and he's got a fewepisodes out now, I think eight and he's got onecoming out pretty soon with Mitch Downey,who is from Pod verse one of the appsI talk about regularly, who pod verseactually is open source. And he the Gene actuallysent me that interview a little bit beforeit was released. Very much appreciateit for him to do that and what I've taken away fromlistening to his show.
And so his is all aboutvolunteer technologists. It's peoplevolunteering their time to create technologyto help other people out. And so in this case, he was talking abouthow Mitch with Pod Verses was really interestedin the accessibility aspect of the podversus app of creating it so that it's helpfulfor people who do have accessibilityproblems, whether that be trouble seeing, whether that be troublehearing, whether that be trouble, you know, in any of thosesort of cases. So in this case, this is why transcripts were so important for for him and integratingthat into pod verse.
And in generalthese people are not motivated by money. If you look atwhat's actually going on, why are they doingthese things? Why are they creating, volunteering their time and they're not gettingcompensated? Obviously,that's the the whole aspect of volunteering. And so when it comesto the incentives for contribution,for open, open source, it's it's typicallynot money. It's orI would say it's probably, you know, 4% of peoplecontribute to a show, probably 96% of peoplewill contribute to open source or to a show, not for anyfinancial aspect at all. So in this case,they're writing code.
They're doing it because they want this thingto succeed. And sure,they'll do some hours outside of it, though they'll share itwith their friends. They will helpa developer out. They'll be on the betatesting like I am for Fountain, and they will jointhe communities, they will participate,they'll do all of these things where it's there's nothingfinancial related to it. And if there is, it's like, Whoa,that was unexpected. I didn't I didn't knowthat would happen. And very muchthe same, I think, for for people contributingto a show that they don't want to get paidback in return, if someone's contributingto this very show, they're not contributingso that they can then get some moneyback in return.
They're contributingso that I can read out theirname so that they feel good about contributing toto something of value. Because I am puttingin a whole ton of work of watchingthese documentaries, creating the resources,doing all the links, the chapters,all of that sort of stuff. And it's they, they,they just, you know, they just wantthe name read out. They just want to feelgood for themselves. They just want to create a connectionwith me because I'm awesomeor you're nice. And so this is where I waslike, okay, incentives wise as well. It's probablynot the best for, okay, let's if you if you contributeto this show, you'regoing to get this thing.
And look, we do do thatfor the mere mortals, which this show isconsidered part of. If you contribute more than 100,000 sets, we will send youa miyamoto's t shirt. But it's like, you know that that's justbasically an equivalency because 100,000 sets atthe moment is about 40 AUD, which is about how much the shirts costin the first place. So it's not like you're, you're comingout of this with anything in a financial aspect,but you do have, you know, my appreciation. I send you a notenow I send, you know, this shirt as well is ais a confirmation of that. You have contributed.
It's it's like,you know, limited edition. So you get that aspectas well. There'sall sorts of reasons why people contributeand most of it is not related to money. So when you thinkabout the open source or whether you think about value for value,it is important to to have a deepthink about, okay, why is someone actuallycontributing to this show? Is it because they want a financial return andsome point in the future? No, it's probably not. It's probablyfor other reasons and it's best to highlight those reasonsand make them more availableand widely known.
So that was very,very cool. I'm going to nowjump onto the Boosta Gram Loungebefore we start talking about some tips andother things at the end. Welcometo the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge. So the Boostagram Loungefor everyone who is wonderingis the section where I read out the messagesfor people who have contributed to the show in ain a monetary form and thank them very muchfor that. It's the best way to dothis is via a podcasting 2.0 app, and today I'll reallyhighlight podcast because podcast is opensource and you can go contribute to podcastsand you can also contribute to this showby sending in a boost.
A boost is a messagethat you send within the actual app, very muchlike how you would send a commentson a YouTube video. And when you send that message,it comes directly to me becauseall of the infrastructure and all things like thatare set up with it and you can choose anamount to help support it. So we use Satoshisat this moment and there's all sortsof fun things you can dowith the numerology, as you will seein the Graham numerology link, which I'll also putinto the show notes. And so you can do thingslike like Ruby did last weekwith the 1770, 70,776, which is a big libertyboost and a whole bunchof people have contributed today.
So I can see right offthe get go here that SamSethi was streaming and a lot of paymentswould say some somewhat coming throughwith this boostagram. So very muchappreciated for that. Thank you very much.And also William Kenny. So that was really,really cool. And thenthe only other one I've actually gotten fromthis week was from the God casterhimself, Steve Webb. Another episode Carand keep It Up. 17,777So almost almost a big libertyboost will count that as one or two a stripe,a boost with an extra one at the front of it. And he sent thatin using fountain and you can actually gocheck out an episode I did talking about one of his showscalled Life Spring Media in season two,which was episode number.
Oh, let me just bringthis up here in my upload. It shows season to episodenumber 22 last spring, Family Audio Bible. So very much appreciated. Thank you. Steve and Steve obviously enjoyedlast week's episode, which was all abouthow does this time go so quickly? What was lastweek's episode about? Last week's episode was aboutthe incentives of hosting and how everyoneneeds to win. So thank you very much,Steve, for that. Once again, you can contributein very many ways, and it's not just viaBoostagrams, but I really do appreciatewhen those come in and Steve has takenanother step towards getting that that nicefancy Miyamoto shirt.
So 100,000 setsis the limit for that. So if you want itand there's only 19 of them left. So yeah, just got to, got to recognisethose things are going to go quick. So I am going to go onto my little tip section here and I guesswhat on the meta level, what is the lesson totake away from this? And for me it was it's really worthwhilefocusing on the talent aspect of the Three T's, the time, talentand treasure and people are so diverse thatthey just can contribute in ways and see thingsthat I can't. They dothings differently. And, you know, I wouldn't have lookedinto open source history without that suggestionfrom from Sara.
Alex gets more eyeballs and the code makes it moresecure. More is on this podcast will actuallymake it better because people will contributein various different ways. They might have audio stuffthat they can hear about. They might give me more suggestions,they might tell me hiring you, sayingI'm a little bit or you're being tooself-deprecating. You need to be morearrogant, you need todo these things. So andI would take them in. Some of those suggestionswill be helpful. Some of them might not. And that's okay. That's the whole aspectof of the talent really coming inbecause other people can seeand do things differently.
And so if you're checking outyour screen now, it's going to look likea little gobble of numbers or lettersand strings of lists. And it's like,what the hell is this? Well,this is the podcasting 2.0 teamtaken from the GitHub. And this is a listof everyone who has contributedto podcasting to point out in some wayor at least have done somethingwhich has made them worth while ofof joining the list. Because,I mean, there's probably honestly a lot more peoplethan what is on here. And it's just so hardto keep up with everyone who has. And so if you gothrough that list and you won't be ableto do it on the on the screen here because there's probably,I don't know, 100 differentnames more than that.
And allof these different people will contributedifferent things. They'll be people who arepodcast is on here. There's poddevelopers, there's people from the hosting sideof the business. There's peoplewho are more interested in databasesand aggregation is obviously and Adam Curry's ofThe World is the Dave Jones is the these peoplewho are the kind of core lynchpins of it,but everyone contributes. Everyoneis doing something. And so if you've gota show, if you've got a somethingthat you're creating, whether it be digital art, whether it be documentary it's worth focusing on, what can other people contributeand how can they contribute in a way which I personally can'tdo, which whether it be because of personalitythings, whether because of where they livein the world, whether it bebecause they've spent, you know, decades focusing on just the aspect of photographyor something like this, it's alwaysworth exploring how can I utilise the talents and,and not only do that, but find a way for peopleto contribute with their talents that really improvethe show or improve the end product of theart that I'm creating. And I think that's reallyworthwhile focusing on the the second T of the timetalent and treasure, because it's, it's a huge aspectof, for example, what makes no agendaso great.
They have people who are doctors, physicists,chemists working in thesedifferent companies which can addmedia sources, which you won't hear. And it's likethe boots on the ground. And that's just oneexample of how you can createa really successful show based around other peopleare sending into you, because that is a lotof how they get the news stories that they talk about on onNo Agenda. So very, very cool. The app and servicehighlight that I wanted to do this week was actuallywant to recommend a few podcastson top of genes as well. So what is also really sparked my interestin open source and, and learning moreabout how similar it is to value for valuewas a lot of the Jupiter broadcasting showsthe suite they have and they'll definitelygive you a taste of that viadifferent mechanisms.
So there'sthe code of radio the self-hostedthere's Linux unplugged. There used to be Linuxaction show. I can't rememberif that still there. Chris Fischerhas been in the world of open source for decades and not only that, he'sbeen podcasting about it for decades. And so if you want to knowmore about open source, he's like a lifelong proponentof this model, basically, and he has alsobeen recently especially getting very hardinto the value for value and how that can helphis show survive during a time where it isharder for advertising. Money has been drying upover this last year and a bit.
So he obviously seesthe link between those two and howit is so important. And so if you want to knowmore about that, I would just recommend checkingout some of those shows. Jupiter Broadcasting. And also I had a chatwith him on episode 90 of The Mere Mortals,so gives you an idea of some of what it's like to embody the ethos of open sourceand be for and listen to iton podcast because it's opensource as well. So that is it. Almost to the end of thisepisode, the fast last and final thing to do hereis the V4 V section. Who am I going to give 15%of this episode to?
Well, I'm going to give itto someone who I am is kind of unnamed,I guess. So, you know, and that'sthat's the thing with open source and value for value, there's these people who have donethese amazing things behind the surface,which you just don't realise is as much likehow much they contributed, how muchthey have helped out. And so todayI'm going to give 15% to Stephen Crowder, who I believe does most, if not all, ofthe documentation for the podcast index GitHub. And that's just really, really important workbecause without the putting of codeinto language of this is what this is,this is what that is the kind of fake newsthat guides is it's so hard, you know, this is kind of what this show is trying to do is give you a guideto value for value and how it can beuseful for you no matter how you'recreating digital content and I think that he doesa crazy amount of work, and I hope this little bitthat I'm contributing back to him just just goes to showthat sometimes things which perhaps might seem unnoticed are actually noticed,but they might not be monetarily rewarded.
And in this case, I dowant to reward him for his his effort, everythingthat is he's done so very, very muchappreciated for that. The last aspect here I'll give youis the three TS. So the timetalent and treasure, what can you do to helpcontribute to this showto make it better? Well, obviously sharing the episodewith the digital creator, but I also reallyappreciate if you come and join melive. That'sprobably the most fun. Last week we we had a couple ofpeople in the Memories Discord Chat which was one and Blueberry and it'sjust a nice environment. So I go live on a 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard Time, which is midnight of UTCon that kind of border between Tuesdayand Wednesday. So Tuesday, midnight,I guess you'd call it. And yet if youif you want to join me, I'm liveon all of the apps you get a notification pod verse on fountainthose sort of things if you havethe notifications set up and podfans is another great one. Kara Costa, podcast guruAll of those will give you accessto this live episode here. So yeah, I would reallyappreciate your time if you, if you are awakeand available to join mefor that talent.
Well,you've got to let me know, is there anything I can do to make this show better?What annoys you? What resources are similarto the eith up or overlap of these? Any book recommendationsyou would take? I really want to readthat one about the cathedraland and the bazaar. I think that that would be really helpfulfor for me to do and yeah I would I would love to receivesome of your talent. What are aspects of valuefor value that I'm not talkingabout enough. Knowingthese things is very, very important to, to making this show better and to to spreading theword of value for value.
And then the finalone here is the treasure. You've got three options. The most preferred versionis using podcasting 2.0 app, new podcast app ask.com. If you want tocheck that out. And in those apps youget so much more benefits. I've got the chaptersin there, I've got links for all of these thingsthat I'm talking about. So there is a YouTubelink to the Revolution OS documentary,for example. If you click on thatchapter and put transcriptsin there, there's all the funding tag,there's all sorts of ways where you geta better experience on these app, the live, you know, it'sit's worth checking out some of one of these appsjust to to experience all of the coolthings that are going on.
And I will just give another shout out hereto pod verse I have two for thisepisode so open source what can I do? Another aspect is you can go to the podcastindex website or even directly to meat KYRAN at get, I'll be dot com if you want to justcontribute in that manner. And so if you go tothe podcast index website, for example, you will be able to acknowledgeall the splits, so you will be able to send itto Stephen Crater as well, which is very muchappreciated and I'm sure he wouldappreciate that as well. But yeah, it's that'sone way of doing it. And then the last one is via the PayPal, which is down in the linksbelow, and you can send in PayPaldirectly.
To me, that'smore of a contribution to the mere mortalsas a whole. But yeah, it is very muchappreciated. This show does createa lot of time that will cost mea lot of time to research these things. It does cost mea lot of effort to get intoall of the nooks and cranniesto really create my notes, to spend all the timedoing this. So contributing back to it is very muchappreciated. And so we're going toleave it there for today. That's another value forvalue episode in the bag. Thank you very muchfor joining me. There's probably about four episodesleft of this season and then I will probablyhave a short break and then come backwith another season shortly afterwards.
But yep,four more seasons, four more episodes toto contribute to this show to look forwardto, to get excited next week I'm going to be going all over the caseexemple of my own stats about is value for valueactually working? You've talked about itso much. Khan but is itactually having an impact? And so I will show youhow it actually is. So to be to be continuednext week's episode. So. Chao for now, Kyrin out.
What are the benefits of willing listenerseager to contribute? So welcome everyoneto another episode of the Valuefor Value show. My name is Kyrin. Hostof the Mere Mortals podcast. The Mere Mortalsbook Reviews, but also this show, which is for digitalcontent creators and those who are willing wanting to connect deeperwith their audience and also monetisetheir products, perhaps in the way that is a little bitoutside of the ordinary. Not using the paywalloption of Patreon and not using the optionof advertising, but using value for value,which is essentially getting supportfrom your listeners who are willing and eagerto contribute to you.
So yes indeed, the topic for today we're goingto be talking about and today I am recording on the 27thof September 2023. I do these live as well,so I always appreciate if you want to come joinwith that. There's some details inthe show notes about that. And today we're going to be talkingabout the open source revolutionthat's upon us. So what is this concernand why is this related to value for value? So I'm actually relativelynew to open source. And I'll go more into the, I suppose, definitionof that shortly. But I've I've always been a rathernon-technical person.
And so now all of these thingsabout open source software and debuggingand namespaces and things like this, I'vealways really struggled. When I first startedinteracting with it, I really struggledto understand. And so basically opensource is creating software code which is availableto the public and anyone can contributeto it. And, and it is freein the sense of freedom, not necessarily in the sense of the actualsoftware is free. And or at leastthere's it's you can monetisearound it. And so they'll be talking a little bitabout the history of this. I'm going to go over some of the reasons why I think the ethosof the open source community is very similarto value for value as well as just talking aboutwhy people contribute.
And we'll lookat the talent part of the three TS as well. So podcasting 2.0 was my real introduction to the open source communityand doing things out in the open. And it wasreally interesting to me and I found myselfdiving further into it and learningmore about the ethos. This was at the same timeI was learning about value for value and meantI really have dived in. I've almost did my firstpull request recently. I was trying to update the update the boostagram number numerology and I waswhich James Cridland actually owns on aon a GitHub. I didn't manage to do it, but I will do thatshortly afterwards.
But open source actually affects quite a few peopleand it almost certainly has affected you. So if you have ever usedMozilla Firefox, if you've ever used office, if you've ever usethe VLC media player, if you've ever used a laptop with IP on itor python or shortcut KANU blend,what else do we have? Apache web, The audacity. And of course I mentioned Linuxand which is basically on every Android phone. So if you've ever touchedan Android phone, you have used some opensource software. At some point and you'dnever really notice this. And it's it'skind of hidden in the backgrounda lot of the times, which is sort of what I think Visa V is going to becomeat times.
It's you'll have thisability to to connect with your audienceand you won't know all of the thingsabout Bitcoin that's going onbehind the surface, which is happeningwith a lot of these podcasting 2.0 apps and you won't knowexactly how it works. All you know is, Oh, I got a messagedirectly from someone and there was a value of moneyattached to it. Wow, that was super cool. Or Oh, this personreached out to me and they lefta really nice comment. And, you know, it'sbecause it doesn't have all of the spamtype behaviour, which you'll seeon YouTube comments.
It's actuallya valuable comment, something that wasworthwhile and interesting and intriguing. And if you want to knowmore about these, go back to the previousepisodes on Boost aGrams and the streaming of statsand things like that, which you could findearlier in the season in episodes43 and 44. So we can see, okay, there's opensources is upon us. We'reencountering it every day. How does this actuallyrelate to valuefor value and why? Why are they similar? So I'm going to go overa couple of properties here, which I have donein my bit of research over this past week because I didn'treally know much aboutthe history of it. And it's it's actually prettyfascinating going into it.
And what really helped me was this documentarycalled Revolution OS, which was a documentary,and a lot of it showcases thethe starting of how people were usingsoftware. This is basically likethe geeks and the nerds. And when they werefirst creating software, it was in this openenvironment. No one had passwords on their laptops and they because they would just or on their computers, I guessyou'd call them back then and they because there was no need toeveryone was just would just contribute. And even when they didset it up, one of the guys,Richard Stallman, who I'll talkmore about shortly, would just hackinto the database and then find everyone's passwordand then email and be like, Hey,just so you know, like your passwordis blah, blah, blah.
But it's much easier to just press the into buttonbecause obviously it's tongue in cheekbecause he's he's saying saying and showing how the abilityto share software just becauseyou have a password one doesn't mean it'snecessarily secure. And it's a kind of a barrier to the ethosof of sharing publicly. So open source code and this is just a reading here from a little website,open source code is usually stored in a public repositoryand shared publicly. Anyone can accessthe repository to use the codeindependently or contributeimprovements to the design and functionalityof the overall project.
So we can see thatokay, having a password is not helping, that it's actually a hindranceto people coming in. And so there wasthis thing called the Free Softwaremovement, which was started bythis guy Richard Stallman. And free actually inthis case doesn't refer to price Free is very much about the libertyto access the code to change it for anyoneto have access to it. And if you go and learn more about the freesoftware movement, he's kind of got these principleswhich he lays out and they're very muchrelated to liberty and personal choiceand things like this.
And essentially it's theability to change, adapt, use or not use without restrictiveIP and licensing. And so I think coined this term the copyleftinstead of the copyright, which is theand this is coming from that documentary,a, quote, inalienableright to cooperate with other peopleand form a community. And so that was from this guy,Richard Stallman, the Free softwareMovement founder. And I think this isexactly what is happening withvalues in value music. For example, if you lookat the adaptability of of what's happening, someoneis putting up their music, for example,and once again, go back to some of the previousepisodes where I talked about value for value musicand how this operates.
So this is going backto episode 45 and 46. This is where you can see, okay,someone is putting up something they've created, so they'veput in some hardware and created something and now they're putting itinto an RSS feed and basically just saying if anyone wants to usethis, adapt it, do what they want to it,they can please just givesome accreditation. And this is where it comes to the licensingsort of aspect, because with with this software,open source software, it usually comeswith a distribution license and the licenseincludes terms that define how developerscan use study, modify and most importantly,distribute the software.
So it's not necessarily free inthe sense of you can do whatever you want with it,you can change it, not give accreditation to to the personwho has created or steal it directlyor things like this. There are a lot of nuanceswith this, which is exactlywhat is the same with V. For V, it'sa lot of nuance, but essentially what I see is it'svery similar in that someone puts upa piece of software source code software, someone puts upsome music, other people can see thatadapt it, and so they can add lines that codeand then they can either with with some of thelicenses, some of them say if you change it enough, you need to then call itsomething different so that the original person is not getting,I guess, tainted with your with whatyou've changed to it because you could be putting malware into it and they don't want their name associated with that.
Or you could just be doingminor alterations to improve some bugs,which is, you know, a good thing. Value for value music if someoneputs the music up and then I put it into a Vfor V Jace show. So this is like a value for value music showwhere I'm maybe talking over it, maybe I've done like a coupleof scratches, maybe I'm jumping in and outand being like, Yeah, here comes the bang. A part 2 to 2. Obviouslyyou're changing the music. You're adapting it because you're addingyour extra audio on top of it,or perhaps you've done a remixor something like this, but we can see, okay, thisis it's the same ethos.
Someone'sputting something up and just saying, Hey,I've created this thing, why don't you use it?You can adapt it, you can do these thingsto it. And obviously there'sgoing to be some nuances. And I would actuallyimagine if value for value musickind of gets as big as I thinkit's going to get, there's probably going to need to besome licenses and different typesof licenses. Oh yeah, You can use itin this sense or you can only use it if you're including meas a 90% split or my value block,as is 90% of it. So I get 90% of any incomecoming in from people listening to your show,which is it?
Using my music. So I think this has gota very similar use case of value for value. And I do the samewith my show here. Like I put it out there, if anyone wants to createclips from it, if they want to adapt it,do anything they want to it,that's awesome. If they want to rip off the entire show and then put iton Spotify. Yeah, okay. I'm not happywith that person. Hey. And so this is where it'slike, yeah, there is some boundary pointsthat can be crossed, but once again,the nuances, it's the, the spirit behind it of, of sharing thingspublicly.
And I think that's a very nobleambition and something that actually in the best in the long term actually distributesthings, makes it more widely available. So another point here, which we haveis contribution. So open sourceis all about others contributingto make it better. And this can be done on asomewhat voluntary basis or they can be compensatedfor it. So, you know, no financial gain orthey actually have some. And we can see thisin in various aspects, various aspects of valuefor value as well. Alex Gates, for example,he contributed the topic for this week.
He was the onewho suggested I do open source softwareor open source and on the valuefor value show and how that relatesto value for value. And you know, that wasa great suggestion because I probablywouldn't have done thatwithout him. I wouldn'thave done the research to do this very showwithout him, him saying that. And so then lookingat that and then saying, okay, you know,I do something similar with the valuefor value splits as well with this very show. So if you look into thethe value block for this, you'll see I've got twowhich are at 1%, one is for the blue spotby C Dubs and another is by the fountain blue spot,which is just a service that I add on to this becauseI find it beneficial.
It's surfaceboostagrams in a waythat I personally can't do and highlights themin a different way. And I'm willing to compensatepeople for that and they just askthat they get put into the splits. And this is very muchhow open sourcesoftware works as well. People contribute, they make things better,and then they're not trying to lock down the softwareitself. Anyonecan get access to it, but it does take effort,time to learn these things and you can make iteasier. Yeah, sure. I'll cometo your workplace and I'll help install itfor you. I'll train up your staff so they know how to use the Linuxoperating system or Debian or whatever it is that they're running on their particularcomputers and servers.
And so I think this aspectof contribution is very much importantto do value for value as well. Someone can help contribute to this show in in variousdifferent ways and I'll talk moreabout that at the end in this case, we've seenthat Fountain and C Dubs have done it through a softwareas a service sort of way. They've created somethingI could never create. I don't know how to code, I don't know how to do thesethings, and I'm compensating themfor that. And then Alex Gates or Sir Alex Gates has contributed to this showby giving me a topic which I wouldn't have thoughtabout otherwise, but I'm not going tocompensate for this one.
And so you can kind of seethere's these these two aspectswhich are very, very much similarwith them, open source. And so, yeah, very,very interesting to to see that kind of parallelthere. Another oneis transparency, and you can actually makea better product when anyone can viewall the bugs messiness and how the sausage ismade. And so in this revolutionarydocumentary it was talking aboutthis guy called Eric Rayment,who sort of honestly is probably like it's kind of similar to mein that he's kind of like a little bit of a philosopherwhilst also tryingto do practical things.
And so he wrote this manifesto,I guess you'd call it, called the Cathedraland the Bazaar, and it was basically a a document,a paper that he wrote, which is sort ofin a book form as well, talking about how he wasarguing in this, that by creatingusing open source and having people coming into the actual code itself, you'regetting more eyes on it, you're getting more peoplelooking at it, you're getting more peoplefixing it as compared to a companywith closed software who only have a limitednumber of developers and they have to be,you know, they're on a time schedule.
They're on a pay. If they don't get paid,they're not going to be working on it. And he was justessentially saying that in the long run, actually open sourcing your code does createa better product because you havemore people doing this. And I believethe same applies to to content creation. When you start having ads and sponsorsentering the picture, I think this startsto shift. I think your productsthat you're creating becomes diluted. And this is not a newobservation. People over the many years have talkedabout how, you know, art becomesmainstream or commercialisedand then it's it loses that essence that made itthis underground thing that was so vibrant,so passionate, so interesting and unique.
And then itit becomes mainstream. It becomes, you know, kind of corrupted by all of the influencesof people saying, Oh, you should probably not talk about thison this show. You might not want to dothis. And it's not like itruins it necessarily, but the misaligned incentives that we were talking aboutfrom the last episode, I thinkto start to crop up, you see on the open source side of thingsor on the business side of things, of software, if something is closedsource, you tend to get these monopolieslooking at you, Microsoft or this lockedin behaviour where you you offer it to someone and then it becomesan integral part of the of the company that isusing the software.
And then you start not supportingprevious versions. So they have to upgradeand then you're, you've got kind of likepoor customer support because they don't haveany other option. They have to use you. So if you only wantto hire five customersupport people when you really need ten,well it's like, well, too bad you just going to haveto deal with that company becauseyou're locked in. And in allof these cases, it's creating a worse product for the personwho wants to use it in the softwareside of things. And I mean personally,my belief is that the more ads you start to addin, the more sponsors, the more outside influencesthat you have on your show probably are going to havethis type of behaviour where it is lockingyou in, where you are doing thingsthat I think just create a worse product.
And so having thistransparency of, look, this is how I dothe value for value. So you can see exactly who is influencing me and how muchthey're influencing me because I read outall the boostagrams and because I acknowledgethe support. And in this case,if I do start talking about thisparticular topic, you know, it's it'sbecause either I want to or because I've been influenced in a waywhich you can see it's the kind of thingshidden behind the surface, which are the leads to worse outcomes,I personally believe. So we've gotthe adaptability, we've gotthe contribution, we'vegot the transparency.
And then the far final onehere was the meritocracy. And so only the softwarethat people want and adopt and adopt will actually survivelong term. So just becausesomething is open source doesn'tmean it's good. You know that there's plenty of bugs,there's plenty of things that make itkind of crappy. And it's it's very much if we look at podcasting2.0, for example, if there wasn'ta desperate need for from people like mewho wanted to create a better product,who wanted to be able to connect with their audience in ain a more peer to peer manner,being able to do it through the actualpodcasting apps themselves instead of havingto direct them to go on to Instagram or go onto Facebookand do this thing and then connect with methere, I'm much it just makesso much more sense to be able to do itwithin the app.
Why can't we do itthat way? Okay, well, we don't haveall the infrastructure. A namespace sets of rulesto for app developers to be able to do this. All right, let's let's doit. Let's create it. And that's exactlywhat Adam Curry and Dave Jones did. And you know, if people didn't wantthat, it wouldn'thave taken off. It would have diedon the vine. Podcasting, too, when I would havehad 15 shows and then it wouldhave been like, eh, nothing's really happeninghere. Okay, All right. Let's let's call it that. Instead, what has happenedis there's been a super vibrant,vibrant community formed.
There's a lot of peopleworking to create apps to talk about valuefor value. Me here, you know, there's peoplewho are great at code, there's people who are greatat advertising, there's peoplewho are great at finding hidden podcasts. The Swedish tricolour,for example, there's people who aregreat at documentation, which is very necessaryfor developers to be able to useall sorts of things. We can see theso many people who want to contribute, who are willing to contribute, and it'sthe contribution that that provides the value,I guess, and the same sort of thing.
If you have acompany, for example, that a show. So let's look at it. In this case, there's you've gota company that has created a service aroundsome open source software. If the software is not getting picked up, ifLinux was not being used, the companies that werecreated back in the day, I can't remember some ofthem from this Revolution documentary, they would have gonenowhere. They would have one was called Linux VA,for example. It had a big stock pricething, it iPod. And what you couldkind of see was like it just kind of went downover time.
Now this was probablydo a lot to the the dotcom bubble burst that that happenedaround that time. But there wereother companies that did IPO redhot for example, whichstill exists to this day and is still thriving. And you know, it isrelated to the marketplace and not having monopoliesor outside controlon on a fair market, which typically tends tolead to to worse outcomes. So, for example, on the podcastingside of things, if you have a showby a company designedto sell a product, that's probablygoing to need some outside source of revenueto keep that show going.
So for example,let's just take Nike and they've got a podcastrelated to selling the newest Nikeshoes, the newest Nike natural brandthat's coming up. You'reprobably not going to want to use value for value. I'm not sure value for value will really workfor a show like that because they've gota very explicit purpose of of selling you something. The I guess like thethe show is it's more of asales device rather than somethingwhich is designed to to bring valueto the customers, to the the peoplelistening to the podcast. It's it'sactually more designed to take value from them.
It's trying to get them to to buythe newest piece of shoe or the newest shirtor something like that. And so in that case,it's it's more of a extractive value. So it probably needsI'm not sure value for value would workfor a show like that. Whereasif you have other shows, hopefully like this one,which are trying to providevalue in that sense and then just askingfor value to be returned, you know, if, if I do the showfor ten years and I it doesn't take off,people aren't getting value from it. You know,that's just the market. That's just like,all right, well, people actually didn't wantwhat I'm creating here and they didn'tvalue it enough.
And so the show goes awayand, you know, there's no there'sno problems with that. And I have no problemswith the, you know, the Niketype podcast who are tryingto sell things. That's just advertising,that's marketing. That's, you know, how youget a product out there. I just don't thinkthat will work super successfully or would even work at allwith value for value. And so when you've got this kind of meritocracyof the best software, it's open source,it's out there, anyone can use itand contribute. If people don't like thatproject, they're not going tocontribute.
It dies on the vine, very similar to a showdoing value for value. If it's a showwhich is providing value, it is making thingsbetter. People will contributeback to that. There'sno doubt about that. And it's just how much. And if that will serve youover time as well, that kind of meritocracy,I think it will could almost call itthe free market, if you want of value for value is sortof the free market. If if it's a if it's a crappy product,no one's listening, no one wants it,it's going to go away. And this is where,you know, the onus is on meto actually create somethingthat's good.
I do hope thatI create something which is valuablethat helps people out. And so yeah, that's I suppose the four mainaspects that I see for creating something, the,the ethos that is matched between valuefor value and open source before I get ontothe Instagram lounge and I did want to makeone more point about the incentivesfor contributing as well and a little story timehere. So I do the minimalist podcastwith my co-host one. We've been doing thatfor years now and have you know, we'vegradually I've basically beenshowing him about the value for value,about podcasting, 2.0 open source,this sort of thing.
And we always are tryingto come up with new ways for people to incentivise peopleto contribute to the show and to create more valuefor the show. And he was suggesting,like, Oh, okay, what if we do this thing for in Octoberor Yeah, in October we do a pay backto listeners. So if someone boostsin a certain amount, well then put themin the value block for the next monthand that way they'll be, it can be kind of likea game type of deal where if the morethey contribute, the more they could get contributionsfrom the past. And it's kind of like, you know,if you look at it that way, it'salmost leading to the the the Ponzi economics style, you know,taking from others to pay backthe original people.
And I was when he first suggestedthis, I was I waskind of off the bat like, I'm notnot a big fan of that one because it does havethat sort of feel of the taking from others to payfor the original people to then get them to,you know, and I it a lot of incentivesand gamification is about just doing things to make people do things,even if it's not necessarilyin their best interest or I mean,I guess you could say, you know, actuallyI'll take that back because who knowswhat's in someone's best interestif they want to play, spend their whole lifeplaying video games, like please go at it.
Just be aware thatthat's what you're doing. You are spendingyour whole life playing video games,you know, 5 hours, 10 hoursa game a day. And I look,I love it as well. I'm very fascinated by thehistory of Speedrunning. I watch videos on themall the time. And you know, there arepeople who will dedicate thousands ofhours to just playing one level of a game overand over and over again. But in this case,I was going, yeah, I'm not I'm notso sure on that. I'm not too happyabout that. And I couldn't exactly say whyit was what in particular that that made me go, Yeah,but when I was thinking about this more,I realised what it was.
And so I'mgoing to actually give a suggestion here of some learning A I've taken from a podcastcalled Volunteer Technologist Spike Guycalled Gene Liberman, and if you ever seenboosting around it's name is Gene Bean and he's got a fewepisodes out now, I think eight and he's got onecoming out pretty soon with Mitch Downey,who is from Pod verse one of the appsI talk about regularly, who pod verseactually is open source. And he the Gene actuallysent me that interview a little bit beforeit was released. Very much appreciateit for him to do that and what I've taken away fromlistening to his show.
And so his is all aboutvolunteer technologists. It's peoplevolunteering their time to create technologyto help other people out. And so in this case, he was talking abouthow Mitch with Pod Verses was really interestedin the accessibility aspect of the podversus app of creating it so that it's helpfulfor people who do have accessibilityproblems, whether that be trouble seeing, whether that be troublehearing, whether that be trouble, you know, in any of thosesort of cases. So in this case, this is why transcripts were so important for for him and integratingthat into pod verse.
And in generalthese people are not motivated by money. If you look atwhat's actually going on, why are they doingthese things? Why are they creating, volunteering their time and they're not gettingcompensated? Obviously,that's the the whole aspect of volunteering. And so when it comesto the incentives for contribution,for open, open source, it's it's typicallynot money. It's orI would say it's probably, you know, 4% of peoplecontribute to a show, probably 96% of peoplewill contribute to open source or to a show, not for anyfinancial aspect at all. So in this case,they're writing code.
They're doing it because they want this thingto succeed. And sure,they'll do some hours outside of it, though they'll share itwith their friends. They will helpa developer out. They'll be on the betatesting like I am for Fountain, and they will jointhe communities, they will participate,they'll do all of these things where it's there's nothingfinancial related to it. And if there is, it's like, Whoa,that was unexpected. I didn't I didn't knowthat would happen. And very muchthe same, I think, for for people contributingto a show that they don't want to get paidback in return, if someone's contributingto this very show, they're not contributingso that they can then get some moneyback in return.
They're contributingso that I can read out theirname so that they feel good about contributing toto something of value. Because I am puttingin a whole ton of work of watchingthese documentaries, creating the resources,doing all the links, the chapters,all of that sort of stuff. And it's they, they,they just, you know, they just wantthe name read out. They just want to feelgood for themselves. They just want to create a connectionwith me because I'm awesomeor you're nice. And so this is where I waslike, okay, incentives wise as well. It's probablynot the best for, okay, let's if you if you contributeto this show, you'regoing to get this thing.
And look, we do do thatfor the mere mortals, which this show isconsidered part of. If you contribute more than 100,000 sets, we will send youa miyamoto's t shirt. But it's like, you know that that's justbasically an equivalency because 100,000 sets atthe moment is about 40 AUD, which is about how much the shirts costin the first place. So it's not like you're, you're comingout of this with anything in a financial aspect,but you do have, you know, my appreciation. I send you a notenow I send, you know, this shirt as well is ais a confirmation of that. You have contributed.
It's it's like,you know, limited edition. So you get that aspectas well. There'sall sorts of reasons why people contributeand most of it is not related to money. So when you thinkabout the open source or whether you think about value for value,it is important to to have a deepthink about, okay, why is someone actuallycontributing to this show? Is it because they want a financial return andsome point in the future? No, it's probably not. It's probablyfor other reasons and it's best to highlight those reasonsand make them more availableand widely known.
So that was very,very cool. I'm going to nowjump onto the Boosta Gram Loungebefore we start talking about some tips andother things at the end. Welcometo the Value for Value. Boostagram Lounge. So the Boostagram Loungefor everyone who is wonderingis the section where I read out the messagesfor people who have contributed to the show in ain a monetary form and thank them very muchfor that. It's the best way to dothis is via a podcasting 2.0 app, and today I'll reallyhighlight podcast because podcast is opensource and you can go contribute to podcastsand you can also contribute to this showby sending in a boost.
A boost is a messagethat you send within the actual app, very muchlike how you would send a commentson a YouTube video. And when you send that message,it comes directly to me becauseall of the infrastructure and all things like thatare set up with it and you can choose anamount to help support it. So we use Satoshisat this moment and there's all sortsof fun things you can dowith the numerology, as you will seein the Graham numerology link, which I'll also putinto the show notes. And so you can do thingslike like Ruby did last weekwith the 1770, 70,776, which is a big libertyboost and a whole bunchof people have contributed today.
So I can see right offthe get go here that SamSethi was streaming and a lot of paymentswould say some somewhat coming throughwith this boostagram. So very muchappreciated for that. Thank you very much.And also William Kenny. So that was really,really cool. And thenthe only other one I've actually gotten fromthis week was from the God casterhimself, Steve Webb. Another episode Carand keep It Up. 17,777So almost almost a big libertyboost will count that as one or two a stripe,a boost with an extra one at the front of it. And he sent thatin using fountain and you can actually gocheck out an episode I did talking about one of his showscalled Life Spring Media in season two,which was episode number.
Oh, let me just bringthis up here in my upload. It shows season to episodenumber 22 last spring, Family Audio Bible. So very much appreciated. Thank you. Steve and Steve obviously enjoyedlast week's episode, which was all abouthow does this time go so quickly? What was lastweek's episode about? Last week's episode was aboutthe incentives of hosting and how everyoneneeds to win. So thank you very much,Steve, for that. Once again, you can contributein very many ways, and it's not just viaBoostagrams, but I really do appreciatewhen those come in and Steve has takenanother step towards getting that that nicefancy Miyamoto shirt.
So 100,000 setsis the limit for that. So if you want itand there's only 19 of them left. So yeah, just got to, got to recognisethose things are going to go quick. So I am going to go onto my little tip section here and I guesswhat on the meta level, what is the lesson totake away from this? And for me it was it's really worthwhilefocusing on the talent aspect of the Three T's, the time, talentand treasure and people are so diverse thatthey just can contribute in ways and see thingsthat I can't. They dothings differently. And, you know, I wouldn't have lookedinto open source history without that suggestionfrom from Sara.
Alex gets more eyeballs and the code makes it moresecure. More is on this podcast will actuallymake it better because people will contributein various different ways. They might have audio stuffthat they can hear about. They might give me more suggestions,they might tell me hiring you, sayingI'm a little bit or you're being tooself-deprecating. You need to be morearrogant, you need todo these things. So andI would take them in. Some of those suggestionswill be helpful. Some of them might not. And that's okay. That's the whole aspectof of the talent really coming inbecause other people can seeand do things differently.
And so if you're checking outyour screen now, it's going to look likea little gobble of numbers or lettersand strings of lists. And it's like,what the hell is this? Well,this is the podcasting 2.0 teamtaken from the GitHub. And this is a listof everyone who has contributedto podcasting to point out in some wayor at least have done somethingwhich has made them worth while ofof joining the list. Because,I mean, there's probably honestly a lot more peoplethan what is on here. And it's just so hardto keep up with everyone who has. And so if you gothrough that list and you won't be ableto do it on the on the screen here because there's probably,I don't know, 100 differentnames more than that.
And allof these different people will contributedifferent things. They'll be people who arepodcast is on here. There's poddevelopers, there's people from the hosting sideof the business. There's peoplewho are more interested in databasesand aggregation is obviously and Adam Curry's ofThe World is the Dave Jones is the these peoplewho are the kind of core lynchpins of it,but everyone contributes. Everyoneis doing something. And so if you've gota show, if you've got a somethingthat you're creating, whether it be digital art, whether it be documentary it's worth focusing on, what can other people contributeand how can they contribute in a way which I personally can'tdo, which whether it be because of personalitythings, whether because of where they livein the world, whether it bebecause they've spent, you know, decades focusing on just the aspect of photographyor something like this, it's alwaysworth exploring how can I utilise the talents and,and not only do that, but find a way for peopleto contribute with their talents that really improvethe show or improve the end product of theart that I'm creating. And I think that's reallyworthwhile focusing on the the second T of the timetalent and treasure, because it's, it's a huge aspectof, for example, what makes no agendaso great.
They have people who are doctors, physicists,chemists working in thesedifferent companies which can addmedia sources, which you won't hear. And it's likethe boots on the ground. And that's just oneexample of how you can createa really successful show based around other peopleare sending into you, because that is a lotof how they get the news stories that they talk about on onNo Agenda. So very, very cool. The app and servicehighlight that I wanted to do this week was actuallywant to recommend a few podcastson top of genes as well. So what is also really sparked my interestin open source and, and learning moreabout how similar it is to value for valuewas a lot of the Jupiter broadcasting showsthe suite they have and they'll definitelygive you a taste of that viadifferent mechanisms.
So there'sthe code of radio the self-hostedthere's Linux unplugged. There used to be Linuxaction show. I can't rememberif that still there. Chris Fischerhas been in the world of open source for decades and not only that, he'sbeen podcasting about it for decades. And so if you want to knowmore about open source, he's like a lifelong proponentof this model, basically, and he has alsobeen recently especially getting very hardinto the value for value and how that can helphis show survive during a time where it isharder for advertising. Money has been drying upover this last year and a bit.
So he obviously seesthe link between those two and howit is so important. And so if you want to knowmore about that, I would just recommend checkingout some of those shows. Jupiter Broadcasting. And also I had a chatwith him on episode 90 of The Mere Mortals,so gives you an idea of some of what it's like to embody the ethos of open sourceand be for and listen to iton podcast because it's opensource as well. So that is it. Almost to the end of thisepisode, the fast last and final thing to do hereis the V4 V section. Who am I going to give 15%of this episode to?
Well, I'm going to give itto someone who I am is kind of unnamed,I guess. So, you know, and that'sthat's the thing with open source and value for value, there's these people who have donethese amazing things behind the surface,which you just don't realise is as much likehow much they contributed, how muchthey have helped out. And so todayI'm going to give 15% to Stephen Crowder, who I believe does most, if not all, ofthe documentation for the podcast index GitHub. And that's just really, really important workbecause without the putting of codeinto language of this is what this is,this is what that is the kind of fake newsthat guides is it's so hard, you know, this is kind of what this show is trying to do is give you a guideto value for value and how it can beuseful for you no matter how you'recreating digital content and I think that he doesa crazy amount of work, and I hope this little bitthat I'm contributing back to him just just goes to showthat sometimes things which perhaps might seem unnoticed are actually noticed,but they might not be monetarily rewarded.
And in this case, I dowant to reward him for his his effort, everythingthat is he's done so very, very muchappreciated for that. The last aspect here I'll give youis the three TS. So the timetalent and treasure, what can you do to helpcontribute to this showto make it better? Well, obviously sharing the episodewith the digital creator, but I also reallyappreciate if you come and join melive. That'sprobably the most fun. Last week we we had a couple ofpeople in the Memories Discord Chat which was one and Blueberry and it'sjust a nice environment. So I go live on a 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard Time, which is midnight of UTCon that kind of border between Tuesdayand Wednesday. So Tuesday, midnight,I guess you'd call it. And yet if youif you want to join me, I'm liveon all of the apps you get a notification pod verse on fountainthose sort of things if you havethe notifications set up and podfans is another great one. Kara Costa, podcast guruAll of those will give you accessto this live episode here. So yeah, I would reallyappreciate your time if you, if you are awakeand available to join mefor that talent.
Well,you've got to let me know, is there anything I can do to make this show better?What annoys you? What resources are similarto the eith up or overlap of these? Any book recommendationsyou would take? I really want to readthat one about the cathedraland and the bazaar. I think that that would be really helpfulfor for me to do and yeah I would I would love to receivesome of your talent. What are aspects of valuefor value that I'm not talkingabout enough. Knowingthese things is very, very important to, to making this show better and to to spreading theword of value for value.
And then the finalone here is the treasure. You've got three options. The most preferred versionis using podcasting 2.0 app, new podcast app ask.com. If you want tocheck that out. And in those apps youget so much more benefits. I've got the chaptersin there, I've got links for all of these thingsthat I'm talking about. So there is a YouTubelink to the Revolution OS documentary,for example. If you click on thatchapter and put transcriptsin there, there's all the funding tag,there's all sorts of ways where you geta better experience on these app, the live, you know, it'sit's worth checking out some of one of these appsjust to to experience all of the coolthings that are going on.
And I will just give another shout out hereto pod verse I have two for thisepisode so open source what can I do? Another aspect is you can go to the podcastindex website or even directly to meat KYRAN at get, I'll be dot com if you want to justcontribute in that manner. And so if you go tothe podcast index website, for example, you will be able to acknowledgeall the splits, so you will be able to send itto Stephen Crater as well, which is very muchappreciated and I'm sure he wouldappreciate that as well. But yeah, it's that'sone way of doing it. And then the last one is via the PayPal, which is down in the linksbelow, and you can send in PayPaldirectly.
To me, that'smore of a contribution to the mere mortalsas a whole. But yeah, it is very muchappreciated. This show does createa lot of time that will cost mea lot of time to research these things. It does cost mea lot of effort to get intoall of the nooks and cranniesto really create my notes, to spend all the timedoing this. So contributing back to it is very muchappreciated. And so we're going toleave it there for today. That's another value forvalue episode in the bag. Thank you very muchfor joining me. There's probably about four episodesleft of this season and then I will probablyhave a short break and then come backwith another season shortly afterwards.
But yep,four more seasons, four more episodes toto contribute to this show to look forwardto, to get excited next week I'm going to be going all over the caseexemple of my own stats about is value for valueactually working? You've talked about itso much. Khan but is itactually having an impact? And so I will show youhow it actually is. So to be to be continuednext week's episode. So. Chao for now, Kyrin out.
