Let's encourage our hosts to be even more hospitable. In Ep#50 we're going to analyse why podcast hosting companies shut down, integrating v4v as a business and how you could do it all by yourself (or with some peers).
Huge thanks to The Bearded Tek, Sam Sethi, Chad F, James Cridland & Boobury for supporting the show. Loving the live boosts!
15% of this episode is going to Cameron for providing an important building block and his behind the scenes work.
5% of this is also going to IPFS hosting so if you want some sats, have a think about favouriting this show.
Handy links:
Feed Your Brand: https://podetize.com/why-podcast-hosting-companies-quit-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it/
Podcast Pontifications: https://podcastpontifications.com/episode/hitting-the-limits-of-low-cost-podcast-hosting
IPFS Hosting: https://ipfspodcasting.net/
DeMu Github: https://github.com/de-mu/demu-feed-template
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
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Connect with Mere Mortals:
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Unknown:
Let'sencourage our hosts to be even more hospitable. Welcome, everyone,to another episode of the Valuefor Value podcast. My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals & Mere Mortals book reviews,and also this one, which is the podcast fordigital content creators who want to connect deeperwith their audience to create a community,and also to be able to kind of find a way to monetise in this very crazy,ad driven world that we usuallyfind ourselves in. I'm recording here on the20th of September 2023. I usually do a live show, so if you ever feellike tuning in yet, just check outsome of the notes that I'll say at the endand you can find out when that is today'stopic.
We're going to be talkingabout the incentives of hosting. Everyone needs to win. So this is definitelygoing to be a more businessorientated episode. I don't typically go downthis this rope realm because I'm more interestedin the kind of philosophy and how the putting itinto the practice certainlyis an important point, but it's it'sthe kind of underpinnings which are what I'mreally fascinated with. However,this is going to talk aboutthe hosting companies because they are reallyan integral part of the podcasting ecosystem. I guess it's possible to have podcastingwithout them, but it wouldn't be very big,let's put it that way.
Yet there are a coupleof niggling problems that we kind of seewith the podcasting hope podcasting hosts and how they runtheir businesses and in particularI mentioned at the start therethe incentives of hosting. What are their incentives. And so I just want to givea quick definition here. So incentives, anything that that persuade a personor a company or entity to alter their behaviourand then decide manner is emphasisedthat incentives matter by the basiclaw of economists and the laws of behaviourwhich state that the higher incentives amount to greaterlevels of effort and therefore higherlevels of performance.
So we go, okay, you know, it's essentially something that makesyou do something and in you want it in ain a good way usually, but you can have badincentives as well. And this is where you can have misaligned incentives and this is wherewe're going to talk about that today. But once again, a misaligned incentive refersto a situation where the goals of different partiesinvolved in a particular situation,such as a firm or a systemare not aligned and may even conflictwith each other. So how can there besome misaligned incentives in podcasting?
Hope podcasting host carAnd what do you what are you talkingabout? So I first want to talkabout why a podcasting company would shut down what what would bea reason for that? Obviously,bad business practices and all that sort of thing. But one of the big reasonsis because of the models that they tryand operate under. So for example,the sound of FM, I don't know if manypeople have heard of that. They weren't the biggestof the biggest companies, but I'd certainlyheard of it. We this is meand myself, me, myself and one we were looking atmoving our host over Geez back in 2020and sound was an option.
We tried them out. We didn't particularlyenjoy it, so we ended upgoing with them with Bass Bus Brat instead. But I actually did havea personal tie with them. I had a showwhich I was not an active and active podcastanymore, could present in Spanglish. It was basically bookreviews that I did in Spanish and I had done a wholebunch of episodes of it. I don't know how many 50, 50 to 100,something like that. And I just wanted to havethis. They are to basicallyjust just have a show just living in existingand sound. It was great becausethey had free hosting. So I was like,Oh, okay, awesome.
Now there's a problemwith this because phrases never really free. So there was this really great articlethat I came across from the feedYour brand is the is the nameof this podcast, and it's hosted by Tracyand Tom Hazzard, and they actually havea podcasting company called Productizeand Productize with a t, I z e dot com, and they actually had thisarticle February 2nd, 2023.Why podcasting happening? Why podcasthosting companies quit? Well, it's a tongue tie and what you can doto avoid it not really talking abouthey exactly the situation I hadI had this business and SpanglishOP, the podcasting, the podcast host companyquit went out of business, changed their businessmodel.
They they still exist, but they don't hostpodcasts anymore. And I looked at moving itover and I, you know, I dilly dallyaround the deadline and eventuallyit just I'd let it lapse. And so that podcastis not up anymore, although I do still have all the audio filesand things like that. So it's not too hardto get it back up. But I just went, you know, this doesn't matter to methat much. It's not that important. However,it would have been nice. Now the problemthat they had was they had a freemium modeland so if you want to go back to episodefour of this very podcast where I had free is never free, well,even in the feed your brand,they talk about free isn't always free, which is was their versionof it.
So essentiallywhat podcasting companies do, these hosts,they try and get as many people inwith a kind of free offer. And then as the podcastwill grow, as peoplewant to put more episodes in things like that, that's when they say,Hey, look, this is actually costing us moneyto host this. You need to jump ontoone of these other plans or we have all of these otherand you know, add ons additions,which you can use. Okay, cool. Now, the problem with thisis that competition is reallytight and you'll see a picture shortly of justhow many podcasting hosts there are and there'sa whole bunch of them and for example, isa whole bunch of podcasts as well.
And a lot of themare on anchor. And I guess I want to sayhere, there's like 4 million podcastsroughly and alone. A lot of them arethese kind of shows which people just put upand don't care about,sort of like I had. And so there's actuallyonly a relatively small number of active podcastsaround the 400,000 range. And so all of these companies are tryingto get these more active podcasts usually, although there are others,of course, which still have valueand people pay for, but they make them money mostlyfrom these small shows because by definitionmost podcasts are small.
So when you've got thiskind of freemium model, you'rekind of having to go after these small shows. And if you justcan't get enough of them, get off, go off to the small shows,and then kind of upsell them onto aonto a new product because that'show a lot of podcasts so podcasts start. That'show the ME and models did. We just jumped with a freeone and eventually we realised,Oh, this is really cool. We want to keep continuingthis. Okay,we'll stop paying for this because we want more abilityto upload episodes. We want to have greater functionality,things like this.
And if you just don'tget that momentum, that's,that's how you, you end up crashing and burning ornot running out of money. And this is what happenedto two sound up for example. The other problem thatexist is big bandwidth. You always talk aboutlike, you know, big pharma, big,big industrial, big, big militarythings like this while big bandwidth. The problem that a lot ofpodcast host have is they don't want big shows. They actually don't want their customersto really be successful. You go, okay, well, why? And so there is anothergreat podcast called Podcast Pontifications,hosted by Eric Volterra, and he had thisepisode called Hitting the Limits of LowCost Podcast Hosting.
At some point,if you're lucky or very strategic, your podcastmight become too popular just too popular for youto stay on the same low price hosting plan. Remember,unlimited downloads sounds all fine and gooduntil your popular show startscosting them real money. So yes, this is exactlywhat happens. Essentially, onceyou start hitting 10,000 or more downloads, the bandwidthcosts just skyrocket and once again, this is because podcasting, it'skind of this on demand. You can get it whenever you want, but when you releasean episode, if you're very popular,everyone's going to listento that straight away.
Or, you know, 90%,75% of your audience will hit that episodewithin the first 24 hours. And so the bandwidthcosts, maybe if you coulddistribute it over a week, it'd be all right if you had a weekly appepisode. But that's not howthis stuff happens. If you get absolutely hitand so this is whereI guess the the what are thea lot of the hosts do is they go, okay, well,once you've got someone adding this much bandwidth,you need to start have a chat with them. And this is what EvaTerra was saying. You know, this is whereyou'll get a message once you startgetting really popular.
It's like, hey, you know,your show is doing well. It's actually startingto cost us a lot of money. We need to cometo a solution and either this is we start paying moreas a kind of flat rate for your host. So, you know, for example,I think we pay $24 a month for the main modelswith with Buzz Sprout. If that gotreally popular, that wouldmaybe start saying, hey, like you need to startpaying hundred, maybe you need to start paying 200just to cover our cost. And then another way wouldbe, okay, well, perhaps we can do some sortof ad solution where, you know, you're the waythat you'll make money from ads.
And so if we can geta percentage of that, then the better your show goes,the more ads you pay, the more ads are gettingplayed. The more moneyyou're coming from ad advertisers, You know,we get a cut of that. Everyone's happyla di da da da. But there's always,I guess, you know, unless you get thesethings really aligned,this is where you can have the misaligned incentives comingwhere the podcast host actually kind of doesn'twant you to get popular. They would ratheryour show stay small and youplay pay that flat rate or is so small thatit doesn't even matter.
And so they can offer thatfree free service and it really doesn'thurt them at all. But you can you just gothink like, man, there's there's probably somethinglingering in the back of the mindwhere it is this misalignedincentives. They don't want youto get better. They don't want youto get more popular. So they might even startdoing some things which would make it so that you'renot as popular or, you know, they won't advertise your show,They won't do everything that they can toto help you out, which is a really funnysituation. You'd think like, Damn,okay, what's what's going on here?
Is there is there a way toperhaps solve this? It's not super, super bad, but it's still obviouslypeople are writing about these things. So it stillobviously is a problem. And this is wherewe're going to come to. Okay. What if we can becomemore closely linked? And so this is actuallysomething that I have experimentedwith and is happening on this very showright now as you speak. So Todd Cochrane, who is, I thinkone of the co-founders or thethe founder of Blueberry, he made a recent post on the podcastindex Mastodon, and he was talking abouthow the shows using the valuetag made 0.4 BTC.
So this is about40 million Satoshis, which is 10,000 us from from beinghosted on blueberry and using the valuetag there, which is pretty coolbecause man, that tag is, it's, it's kind of hiddenout of the way. It's called experimental. It's not the easiest thing to useand yet there's still, you know, a bit of money flowing through inthis was and they're ableto tell this because they geta 3% split of all of that. So they would get 3%of 10,000 U.S. which is if my math isokay, you know, 300 bucks, not it'snot a crazy amount. And that'ssince the start of 2023.
I wanted to actually get a little bitmore details on that. And, you know, how manypodcasts was that from? Because I bet it would be less than 100if I had to say. But yeah,so that's still cool. And it'lllink up with some the stats that I talked about a couple of weeks agoin the second hour. But you can haveyou can see, okay, this is an opportunity where the hosts have can partake directlyin the success of the show and of course is wherenegotiations can occur. So, for example,this very podcast, if you boost in 3% of it,is going to go to blubrry.
If this show gets very,very popular, I'm going to havemore people boosting it. And that'skind of how the the value for value model works,you know? Yeah, obviouslyyou have to do the ask. You have to createa good show. You have to make sure that people knowhow they can do it. And all of these sortsof things. But, you know, roughly4% of people will will contribute to the show. And once again,check out an episode in a couple of weeks where I'll talk about my ownvarious statistics and I'll be able to back this upwith some actual numbers. But the bigger the showgets, the more thatthey will earn.
So once again,this is where it's like incentivesare directly aligned, much like how they can have it with the the advertisingand if they getting a percentageof the advertising split, if they get a percentageof the value split of thatcoming in, okay, awesome. They can do this. And then yeah,negotiations can occur. I can say, oh, you know,3%, that's a that's a lot. Todd Like, I'm I'm, I'm not sure I'mhappy with that. And he's like a carand the cost man costs of doing this you get in very popularwe actually need a bump it up to 5% And I'm like,Oh damn.
And this is wherethe free market comes in. And if I don't like that,I could go do another podcast hostor you know, that that sort of deal,this is beautiful. This is how it shouldall work. Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't host jump onto this opportunity? You know, you hear thesearguments elsewhere, a value for values,not a steady income. So the host they need, you know,a steady stream coming in and it uses bitcoin,which is a scam. Oh, my God, Can't do that.It's such small numbers. Only 10,000us over the course of 2023 people won't pay.
You haveto force them to pay. I think all of these we'vekind of been debunked over the course of all ofthe value for value show. They're all fallacies. You know,people won't pay. No, they'll pay. It's it's just you just have to ask and you just have tochange your show so that it's easier for it so that they havethe incentives, too, so that they getpart of the feedback loop so that they know that they're actuallycontributing directly and they are havingan impact on such small numbers. You know, go back to two episodes agoto episode 48. This is where we saw,you know, a couple of years ago,it was only 60,000.
That's flowing through the ecosystema day now it's closer to 1 to 2million. Where will that bein two years time? And that could be anotherwhatever percentage X that is you know, 150X or something like that. So it's not hard to see. Okay. Well, you know, it's only maybe 10,000over the course of nine monthsat this very moment. What if that was 100,000or a million? Okay, Well, that's that's actually goingto stop making a big differenceto these podcasting hope companies, if theycan get a split of that. You know, BTC is a scam. I don't want to gointo that one.
v4v is not steady income. Yeah, sure. That's a that'san argument and some but once again,if this is a podcasting hosting company,if they have 5100 300 a thousand shows, which they'repart of the split off, you know, those showsare going to vary in their amount as well. But it's kind ofin the variance that you'll get some stability. So once again, there's athere's an option now, another optionthat is possible. But, you know,you could be saying, and this is all risky,what if my host fails? You know,what if what if Bluebird just goes out of business?
Ye of little faith? Do you think I'd forgotten aboutthe first two properties that I talked aboutin episode 40? This being decentralisationand being self-sovereign. So this is why we're going to jumpinto IP FS hosting. And so first, I mean, first ofall, if that's the case, what if my host failsand just move? It's not too hard. You know, I've I've all of my showshave been on multiple hostsmultiple times. It's a bit of a painin the ass, but, you know, it's it'snot, it's not that hard. But on a recent podcasting2.3 episode, episode 145,which had Alberto from Ask.com and Cameron,who is the guy who's kind of created Ipfspodcasting, hosting, it's they gointo this concept of being ableto do it in a direct in a peer to peer manner of distributing, of having,you know, decentralisation of your hosting.
So it's not just inthis one central location. That episodeis super complex. I roughly knewthe general idea coming in, but they got into the techside of things and they were talkingabout gateways that are talking aboutall this crazy stuff. So this is is kind of hardto sustain. So here'sthe basic overview. Yeah. Instead of having onecentral point where you uploadyour audio and it's getting absolutelyhammered, just like we were talking aboutwith the big bandwidth, you can have multipleproviders or peers, each providing a bit. So if you want to think of torrentingor the Pirate Bay, this is how that worked.
You would have a movieor a music on online. Multiple peoplewould have this online, and if someone wantedto get the episode, those or that movie or whateverit is, instead ofjust absolutely hammering one of those peoplewho had it, that person could justprovide part of the file and then someone else could providepart of the file. Think of it like a jigsaw. Everyone'sgot their little piece, everyone ownsthe full thing, they have the full jigsaw, but they just providea little piece to someone new who wantsto get that jigsaw puzzle. And then that waythey're not, you know, gettingabsolutely hammered and having a thousandpeople showing up their doorall trying to get their jigsaw puzzleat the same time.
And so this is whereyou can say, okay, your peers can helphost your files so that they're notever offline if your podcasting hostgoes down well, you know, or if one of the peersgoes down, that's okaybecause there's, you know, 50 others, 100 otherswhich are also hosting it. So once again,this is the the kind of decentralisation,even permissionless, because you can havejust multiple people coming on to usand I'll talk to you about how I'm doing thisfor this episode very shortly. And so once again, it'sthis idea of the tech behindit is very, very complex.
There's all sorts of crazythings going on with Ipfs, which stands for interplanetary filesystem of file storage. I've had both and this isthat central idea of of having multiple filesin various locations. And yet if one of themgoes down, it's okay because there's otherswhich are backups for it. Now, this is not going to completely replace hostingor anything like that. They still havea central point which they linkedto which is, you know, the host,which I have. But if that host goesdown, this should theoretically work. I actually, you know, I don't think anyone'stried it out where the main hostingcompany has gone down and this is all so new.
So this is just if you're interested inthese sorts of ideas is a here'sa little taste of for you. So getting onto the kind of peer to peer incentives, well,why would someone else host my file? What'swhat's in it for them? Because you were just talking about incentivesbefore. They needto have a reason for it. Because even though it might be onlya little bit of bandwidth, you know, they're still providingbandwidth that's still costing themmoney. Why wouldwhy would they do that? And so thisis where it's like, okay, a high value for valueincentives kick in.
And so if I provide a split,which I've done for this very episode, 5% ofthis is going to go to the Ipfshosting solution thing. That's going on here, and I might do thisgoing forward. I'm not sure I want totest out for this episode. Then whoever helps host this filewill get some of the sets as distributed via the Magic IpfsSystem technology. So there's a kind of like technologywhich is saying, Yeah, you provide this pieceof the jigsaw puzzle, you providethe end corner, you provide thislittle bit in the middle, and that all comes together to form a file whichsomeone can download.
What if I contributesome sets 5%? And so that 5%kind of goes into a pool. So each person who is providing a piece of that puzzle,then they get part of the sets for it. Now, it's not going to be hugeamounts because 5% of my showand then split that up to another 100 peopleor something, their only public to get, you know,tiny little bits. But once again,that's compensation for these tiny little bitsthat they're providing. So you can see, okay,this is maybe where the everyone'sgetting a part of the part of the pie, you know,everyone needs to win. Is, was the kind ofsubtitle of this episode and this is whereyou can see, okay,when incentives work, when everyone has anincentive to do something in and they are alignedand not misaligned, this is whereyou could go.
All right, sweet. This is you know, thisthis is making it work for everyone. Once again, there'sall sorts of things behind this old filesthat are getting no downloadsin a 48 hour period. They get removed unless they're favoritedby someone. You can just see how all of thiswould come together. There's this things in the backgroundwhich, sure, it could make itdifficult, but I'm more see this as the,you know, angel music. Oh aligned incentivesit's all coming together as from theThe Emperor's New Groove. What's his name,Gronk or something? Oh yeah. It'sall coming together.
So yeah, this is whereit's just a way. This is wherelike, a kind of like, littlebusiness episode of saying the value for valuecan work for businesses. Once again, this is fordigital products. It's nota physical products. I need to see more proofof this working in the real worldfor a physical product. I know some examples and I might do an episodeon that at some point, but this is definitely onewhere it's like, okay, this is worthlooking out for. If I was a hostingcompany, I would seriously be looking at doing thisand many of them are. I know RSS dot com hasthis feature as well.
Blue variables obviously, and I think all of them will come aroundat some stage because it's it isrelatively easy thing to to just put in thein the actual what would you call it. The RSS, the XML file. It's just the podcastis themselves needing to learnabout value for value and why they would want to ask the listenersto listen on a, on an app like Fountain and Stream sitesor to Brustein, which is hencewhy I have this show here. All right,beautiful suite. Let's go onto the Brewster Gremlins and I'll do some livechats at the same time. So I have a a small live chat here,which is just my discord and I can seewant to be very listening.
So thank youvery much for that. And so one was asking,is there a predicted path through where technically data storage becomescheaper and cheaper to allow for bandwidthexpansion? I look, I don't actuallyeven know what that means. I'm guessingyou're just saying it. If the bandwidthand data storage becomes cheaper,which tends to happen over timewith the internet, you can see howall of this this happens. Will willthis kind of make this be a justan unknown entity, a non-issue because,you know, audio files there aren't they aren'tthat big that usually what in the megabytesrange you know if unless it'slike a music one which can need a bit more outthis episode, for example, it'll probably besomewhere around 40 to 60, I think forabout 45 minutes worth.
So. So this is whereyou could say, Oh, well, if we just, if, if everything nextand was the same price, this would becomea non-issue. Yeah, potentially. Typically, though, what happens is peopleexpand their that capacity. So when you get moreenergy and energy is cheaper,you tend to use more. So there's you know, if I could make my audiofiles that much better by just adding more megabytes onto them, even if it was only a tiny little bit,I'd probably do it. And so that's one thing. There was also asking, could the podcast businesses, notby default, make podcasts possibly pay thempercent to as they grew, as they grow?
Yep, sure they can. But once again,this is just the because there'sso many podcast hosts this is where forcingpeople to do things, you can lose your customer pretty easilybecause people would just go, I'mjust going to go over to this host here,which doesn't have that. This I think is just in relation more likea business thing, the industry, because so many peoplewill start a podcast, not know if they reallywant to do it, not be serious about it. And so they don't wantto pay because it's it's, it's kind of like you needto you need to start and do it for a whileto realise if you want, if this is an avenue worthgoing down, much like we did one as my co-host in the miyamoto's,you know, it was probably onlyinto where we're, I don't know, 50to 100 episodes in where we were starting to go.
Like, okay,this is actually something we really enjoy. We can keep doing this. It's probably startworking worthy of looking at how we can make this betterfor our audience. And to do that, thenwe need to start paying. So I think that's more an industry thing rather than the actualbusiness itself. It if they start trying to force people to pay, it's just not going to workas, as great. And they might, you know,lose those people who would convert to becomingpaying customers if they'd just waiteda little bit longer. I don't know.
I'm not a podcast host, so I'm just kind ofguessing there. But as I mentioned with those couple of articles and there's links in all the chapter images, when if you listento this post and you'll see that peopleare obviously highlighting these issuesand talking about it. So there must be issues. So yeah, there we go. I'm going to jump ontothe boostagrams here and thank some people whohave supported the show. Welcometo the Value for value. Graham Lounge. As we were saying,you know, 5% of this is going to go to Ipfspodcasting, hosting. So if you are a nodeand you want to help support this showand you know, get paid for doing that, you know, favouritethis episode and, and you'll get some statscoming in hopefullyfrom the next week.
You know, we're goingto have to rely on very kind people like the people who support it in and I'll say at the very end how you cansupport the show but we've got coming upat the top here the beard tech. He says thank youfor the kind words. This is the guy who I wastalking about last week is creating the blogindex. We're still veryearly days and anyonewho wants to help dive in and create something great with code ideas,funding, etc., I'm more thanwelcome to come join in and help out in matrixor GitHub match. Seems like a great idea. The only issueI personally have with it is all the Trekkies,which is understandable, but what we aretrying to build will be 100% self-hosted not for profit and databroker.
Check a free exclamation mark 1000 sets sentusing fountain. Thank you very much,my friend. Yeah. Look, honestly, when it comes to privacythings, I am so oblivious. I chuck a lot of my stuffout there, so that's not something I really care aboutor watch too closely. So it's good to knowthat other people are on top of that and,and doing that. And yeah, once again when I get some time I, I'll probably try outmesh someday but it's it's loweron the priority list. I see. Once again Sam Sethi just absolutely blastingmy channel here with lots ofit just says received donation message you know19 sets 19 sets 3958.
So you must have been playing aroundwith the amounts because these arestreaming amounts. But I did see in thishe did send a message at some points, whereashere we go POD fans has a statsenabled blog with Zaps and Bruce love the ideaof also adding splits. We are creating an RSS2.06 feed and putting it in podcast indexwith the medium of blog. Very cool pod fan spin. What can't you doover there? What can't youdo? He's coming out with a the progressiveweb app on mobile in I think it's like about aweek's time. So yeah, I'mdefinitely going help him outwith the testing and things of all of that.That would be very cool.
But pod vents, it's yeah,it's getting stronger. It's getting you canlisten live and I've put up links and stuff to that as wellso very, very cool. I see Chad coming in herewith a row of threes. 3333 sent usingCosta matic, he says playing catch up. Thank you very much, Chad. If catch up all you want, I definitely needto update all of my episodes again. I've made it a solid craftpeople. The first seasonis pretty good. Apartfrom some of the chapters, I still need to fix those. But this first season,all the notes, all the links,everything works.
I still need to fix up the boosting amountsfor season two. So boosting amountsthe splits for season two. So my to do list and another one,an exciting one here from James Cridland,the host of POD News. Also, Sam Seth is our partnerin crime over at Pod News and he saidlike boost 1111 and that'sa row of Richards sent using fountainanother live on here from blueberry himself17,776 Baller using boost cli This is awesome we're getting like basically every method just need a curecost a boost and that'll sort it all out, he says. I inadvertentlyfound myself in the hosting game,getting a bunch of music uploaded of over the pastcouple of weeks.
It's been fun. Snip snip a reference to the runningwith scissors, their blueberries, Bruce Seeleyand his Bruce spot is actually in my splitsas well. So all of these boosts,once I finally get all the live chat andall that stuff working, that'll be a veryawesome addition. And once again,just showcasing the splits, showcasing that people are excitedabout all of these things. The music obviouslyhas really taken off and I would encouragepeople to to just keep an eye outon that because I'm going to get Adamas well. I hope to get Adamon the main models perhaps next month to talk about that becausehe's been doing it for, geez, what,close to two months now.
So I think you havesome interesting insights about the voiceof the music. But thank you, everyone.Thank you. Obviously, blueberry. Thank you for thatBig Bruce man. Much appreciated.That is going to the ipfs. So, Chad,if you're also listening, I know you do some hosting of nodesand things like that. If you want a favourite,this one, that'd be very, very cool. So that is the Boostagram Lounge. Once again, I didn't order it dueto Sam's shenanigans. Absolute shenanigansgoing on there. But thank you very mucheveryone, for boosting in very, very, very cool.
Oh yeah.And then blueberries. Just gota little thing here showing that the boost what actuallyactually works So awesome legend manyou are incredible. Keep those scissors. Just just keep them awayfrom your face. Your face is beautiful. Mint And don't get to too many scars orthings like that in there. Okay. Let's get to some tips. Some tips. The podcasting host. I need feedback. People, if they don'thave a podcast, they almost certainlyhave a YouTube channel. So I know Buzz Cast hasa Buzz Brat has podcast. I know that Blueberryhas the new media show. I'm pretty sureI've heard that some of the other most of the hosting companies, I believe,have their own podcast.
So this is a perfectopportunity for you to help support them and to let them knowwhat you want because they need to knowabout these things. If they don't have valuefor value, if they don'thave a split, if they don't have live tag that you want,if they don't have any of the numerous things that you want to to play with,to provide more value to your audience,they need to know about these things. And so buzz cast, for example,I supported them to Todd help me get this very livestream set up when I was with Casta Pod Yassine Handheld me through all of that.
And by being moreconnected with them, you do get benefitsfor yourself. So not only because, look,you're going to say, Hey, I want this, I want that,and they're going to go, Yeah, that's going to takea bit of time. So buzz cast, for example,a bus. Brad They haven'tgot the live talk. I would 100% be using thatbecause I use that for the modelsand the book reviews. I will be using that asof a week or two's time. They haven'tupdated it yet. They haven't got that all that functionalitybecause they they're very much focussedon the consumer on the what is it, the UI,the UX of making things run really smoothly, whereas I'm morein the experimental phase and I just want to stuff.
I don't care if it's hotand in care for breaks, I just want todo these things. So yeah,this is where it's, it's like it's worthy ofjust letting them know that'sand you get benefits. So open three and pod row, those are the two thingsthat time I got added to the modelsand you know, people were talking aboutthat. I had James Cridlandto boost it in just before he mentioned thaton Pod news, that kind of just, youknow, extra visibility, extra little functions,extra extra features. If you go on to POD fans,you'll see that pod roll is still workingfor my show, which highlightsother shows I think are worthyof of you checking out kind of like a recommendation listwithin within the the actual podcastapp itself.
All of these things help. And so that's just my tipfor today. You know, ultimatelyBlueberry got my business because they had thesefeatures like the value, like being ableto go live. The live one was a bigone for me. I really wanted to do thatfor this show. I was, you know,I was looking at moving it onto bus sprout,but they didn't have that. And so once again,the pod, the podcast hosts, I'm going to goand spend my money. And I spent a I can'tremember how much it was. It was probably about 200and something Australian dollars hosting this for a yearon on blueberry.
And, you know, not only that,but he's also receiving 3% of everythingthat's coming in so that while he blueberryis receiving that. So very, very cool. And that'sjust my tip for today. Reach out to your host. Tell them what they what you want,what you need, and you know, be willing toto share some of your your your profits, your your value with thembecause when they get better,you get better. And it's it's when those incentives are alignedthat it it really really takes it to a to a whole new level. So and I've just gotblueberry in the chat here saying live is littaking your show live takes the productionto a whole new level.
Ten out of tenwould do it again. I can definitely say forthis show it makes me prep and actuallyfor the models as well. I think it makes us prepbetter by doing it live. So there's there'svariations to this. I want to talkat some point about the kind of optimal show for value, for value, how you have to actually change your showa little bit. But that's definitelyfor a for another episode of my app and servicehighlight, this is a worthy reminderthat you actually don't need a podcast hosting companybehind the schemes. I don't thinkthey used one.
This is very, very show. I know. So Spencer, for example,he has a dimly a dim view feed templatewith comments and notes to help a musicianwho wants to sell fast. So he's got this thingwhere it's basically, you know,there's wavelike out and there's the music sideprojects. And once again,these are kind of like varying ordersof being able to to host it yourself. And he's like, Look,this is how you can do it. Here's somenotes. Anyone can do this. And this is where I somewhat agreeand somewhat disagree. I use cost upload, which was a self hostingsolution.
It's doableeven for the tech strugglerslike myself. Okay. They use a podcastingcompany called Pod Serve, but I'm pretty sure healters his own RSS feed. So once again, it's it'skind of like a half half thingthat he's doing. And that's somethingthat I want to look at in the future as well. But this is whereit's like, okay, you can, you can do ityourself. Costa Pod is a selfhosting solution. I had Digital Oceanas my servers. I installed their package. I was to basicallyget all my stuff uploadedwithout using what you would call a typicalpodcasting company.
CostaPod actually has added that service as a thing, but you can also do it the open source routeif you want, and the Self-Sovereignroute. This is beingable to host it yourself. Just rememberthere are trade-offs and time and pain pointsfor all of this. So for example, I very humorously locked myselfout of my very own feed. So this was for the valuefor value show. And basicallyI put the locked tag in. I lost my log in details. I couldn't log into my ownadministration dashboard and with the log tagthe companies, basically the point of that is tosay, I'm not going to ingest this RSS feedand be able to switch host because they put the locktag on it, which really fucked meover, especially becauseI had one episode left.
It was hilarious. I had one episodeleft of season two and I did that,so I basically had to recreatethe whole thing again just to be able topublish that last episode. A good learning pointfor me, and also good learning pointfor you guys at home. If you want to do selfhosting, just be prepared. You got to runningwith scissors, you got to you've got take some time. Some things are goingto be harder. And just like Burberry'ssaying, yeah, they have a handpacked feed that they submitto the index. You know, when things gowrong, that's on him now. It's not on the podcastinghost.
So the it's good to havethese aligned incentives. A host can do thingsthat I certainly can't. I'm not greatwith data management. I'm not great with, you know, the realfinicky side of technology and things like this. It's awesometo have a host for that and but it does trade offs of like I don't have all the featuresthat I would like, you know, that's okay. And you just have to keepthat in mind as a and yeah, if you want to knowmore about how to do self hosting. So Spencer'sa great resource for that. So if you go on to the podcast index Mastodon,you can find him there.
Finally, value for value. Who is 15% of this showgoing to go to? So obviously I've gotthe 5% go into the Ipfs podcasting hosting, but I want to give 15%to Cameron as well. This is a dudewho's living by a forest or a woods. If youlisten to that podcast, podcasting,2.0 episode, you'll you'll hearthat was a bit of debate about whetherit was a forest or woods. And he was like, he's just some rendered outin the woods who has created thisawesome system that's going to be so muchbackend work. There'sgoing to be so much time spent optimisingcertain niche things, learninghow to use ipfs like that, that placesthat thing is difficult to to understand,let alone build on top of.
You know, he's just another unsung herowho does great work that could really changean industry and reminds meof this picture that was posted on the podcast index Mastodon shout out to ChristopherEzine, which is showshow RSS is holding up the whole podcastingecosystem. It's this, it's this blockwhich is on the very edge wood kind of like a Jengatower, you know, it's the blockright at the bottom. If you pulled that out, everything comescrashing down and so this is whereit's like, you know, I want to getI want to shout out people who help create thingslike this where they're doing something that could thatis another building block and that could become anintegral building block of of, you know, hostingin the future, of making it more reliant,more distributed of creating incentivesthat work for everyone.
And so, yeah, bigshout out to Cameron Massive, massive, massivework that he's doing. And I'm going toleave it there for today and just give yousome recommendations of the value for value system. Sorry, there's a couple before I get into thatas couple of last frontier, JamesCridland was mentioning captivate chargesper download, which some podcasts which some podcastssee as a bad thing, but it means they reallywant to help you grow. And he was an advisor for them once, so he knows deeplyabout that as well. One also sent me a commentas well to do this was relatedto the memorial, so that's all good.
So yeah, very, very cool to have all of thesethings available. Value for value. This is a value for valueshow, obviously it is the valuefor value show. And there'sa couple of ways that you can helpsupport the show time, you know, sharing the showwith someone who is maybe looking at wonderingabout podcasting, hosting, about wondering aboutgetting a popular podcast, why are they charging memore, Why is thishappening to me? How can I becomemore distributed so that my followersdon't go offline and I'm a tech personor they're a tech person? They love to knowabout all these things.
Pleaseshare the show with them. I would really love to start reaching outto a bit of a greater audience to really. This is definitelythe show where I'm trying to I'm trying to helppeople understand value for value and the various parts that gointo all of these things. Not only the philosophy,but yes, in practice and the businessside of things as well. You could also come join for the live as Jamesas one as Burberry have done.This is very exciting. I love gettingthese little interactions talent.So next week topic, for example,is on open source.
Now I got a recommendation of for doing this from Sir Alex Gates months ago and. This topicas well as others were suggested by people. And if there's a topic that you would like to know about of the valuefor value, please reach out to me.Let me know. Hey, I really want to knowhow value for value workswith physical products. Okay, well, I'll spend more timeresearching, much like I have done today, to seewhere does this work. I already know, for example, that churchesand music, you know, church music, people willsometimes have CDs and it's likeyou just take a CD.
Anyone can get it. Just givewhat you think is worth or what youwhat you can contribute. And this is very muchon an ethos of V for V, and Iknow there's a guy at my local Bitcoin made up. He does it with honeyand who also does it with with meatand things like this. So it is possible,but if you've got a topic, please please reach outand let me know. And or just resources. Things that you think would be interesting toto hear about. And then finally,the treasure, the three options available for youat this very moment. You can geta new podcasting app.
I mentioned a whole bunchof them in the boostagramsjust then, so people boosted inby a castamatic via pod fans, by a by a fountainby the Bruce CLI and other great ones are things like podcastguru of things like podverse obviously pod verse is a massive one and curiocaster and I thinkthere's even more and I'm just forgetting them at the momentbut you know, those are a great wholebunch of options. You're helping supportthe show, you're helping support Cameron,you're helping support Burberrywith as Bruce Bartlett, you're helping support the Ipfs hosting.
All of this is getting distributedto various people and to me, of course,which is very much appreciated. I told you how much my hosting costfor this year, so I'd really loveto recoup that. At the very least,that would be awesome. So you can do itvia there. You can do itdirectly to me at KYRIN at get Alby dot com a slightly riskier routeif you want to do it that way. Because I don't checkthese as I do check in regularly. But it's harder to seebecause the ALBY extension with the incoming,it doesn't show me a full weeks worth. It only shows me upto a certain point.
So I can't see every single onethat's coming in. But yeah, that's very much appreciated that you can do itby there as well. Another optionis going directly to the podcastingindex site and boosting in with Alby. From there, which will honourall of the splits, which is very, very cool. And then finally,if you go to me Immortals podcast dotcom such support this one likely won't getread out the PayPal. I don't check thatfor these shows, but there is a PayPaloption there and you can boost and buy there as well directlyto the memorial. So lots of differentfor you available if you're in Brisbane.
You could also I don'tknow, reach out to me and Henry some cash in personif you want. Buy me a drink.That'd be awesome. I'd be really fun. I'm going to leave itthere for today. Thank you very muchfor everyone to join live. Thank you very much foreveryone who contributed. Thank you very much. For everyone who's listening nowlater as well, it's it's awesometo see all of this. And I'm really lovingthe the interactions. It's very heartfelt. I'm gladto know the effort I'm putting in is having some sort of effectand helping out people. So we'll leave it there.
As I mentioned,next week's episode is going to be allabout open source and yet until then,chao for now, Kyrin out.
Let'sencourage our hosts to be even more hospitable. Welcome, everyone,to another episode of the Valuefor Value podcast. My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals & Mere Mortals book reviews,and also this one, which is the podcast fordigital content creators who want to connect deeperwith their audience to create a community,and also to be able to kind of find a way to monetise in this very crazy,ad driven world that we usuallyfind ourselves in. I'm recording here on the20th of September 2023. I usually do a live show, so if you ever feellike tuning in yet, just check outsome of the notes that I'll say at the endand you can find out when that is today'stopic.
We're going to be talkingabout the incentives of hosting. Everyone needs to win. So this is definitelygoing to be a more businessorientated episode. I don't typically go downthis this rope realm because I'm more interestedin the kind of philosophy and how the putting itinto the practice certainlyis an important point, but it's it'sthe kind of underpinnings which are what I'mreally fascinated with. However,this is going to talk aboutthe hosting companies because they are reallyan integral part of the podcasting ecosystem. I guess it's possible to have podcastingwithout them, but it wouldn't be very big,let's put it that way.
Yet there are a coupleof niggling problems that we kind of seewith the podcasting hope podcasting hosts and how they runtheir businesses and in particularI mentioned at the start therethe incentives of hosting. What are their incentives. And so I just want to givea quick definition here. So incentives, anything that that persuade a personor a company or entity to alter their behaviourand then decide manner is emphasisedthat incentives matter by the basiclaw of economists and the laws of behaviourwhich state that the higher incentives amount to greaterlevels of effort and therefore higherlevels of performance.
So we go, okay, you know, it's essentially something that makesyou do something and in you want it in ain a good way usually, but you can have badincentives as well. And this is where you can have misaligned incentives and this is wherewe're going to talk about that today. But once again, a misaligned incentive refersto a situation where the goals of different partiesinvolved in a particular situation,such as a firm or a systemare not aligned and may even conflictwith each other. So how can there besome misaligned incentives in podcasting?
Hope podcasting host carAnd what do you what are you talkingabout? So I first want to talkabout why a podcasting company would shut down what what would bea reason for that? Obviously,bad business practices and all that sort of thing. But one of the big reasonsis because of the models that they tryand operate under. So for example,the sound of FM, I don't know if manypeople have heard of that. They weren't the biggestof the biggest companies, but I'd certainlyheard of it. We this is meand myself, me, myself and one we were looking atmoving our host over Geez back in 2020and sound was an option.
We tried them out. We didn't particularlyenjoy it, so we ended upgoing with them with Bass Bus Brat instead. But I actually did havea personal tie with them. I had a showwhich I was not an active and active podcastanymore, could present in Spanglish. It was basically bookreviews that I did in Spanish and I had done a wholebunch of episodes of it. I don't know how many 50, 50 to 100,something like that. And I just wanted to havethis. They are to basicallyjust just have a show just living in existingand sound. It was great becausethey had free hosting. So I was like,Oh, okay, awesome.
Now there's a problemwith this because phrases never really free. So there was this really great articlethat I came across from the feedYour brand is the is the nameof this podcast, and it's hosted by Tracyand Tom Hazzard, and they actually havea podcasting company called Productizeand Productize with a t, I z e dot com, and they actually had thisarticle February 2nd, 2023.Why podcasting happening? Why podcasthosting companies quit? Well, it's a tongue tie and what you can doto avoid it not really talking abouthey exactly the situation I hadI had this business and SpanglishOP, the podcasting, the podcast host companyquit went out of business, changed their businessmodel.
They they still exist, but they don't hostpodcasts anymore. And I looked at moving itover and I, you know, I dilly dallyaround the deadline and eventuallyit just I'd let it lapse. And so that podcastis not up anymore, although I do still have all the audio filesand things like that. So it's not too hardto get it back up. But I just went, you know, this doesn't matter to methat much. It's not that important. However,it would have been nice. Now the problemthat they had was they had a freemium modeland so if you want to go back to episodefour of this very podcast where I had free is never free, well,even in the feed your brand,they talk about free isn't always free, which is was their versionof it.
So essentiallywhat podcasting companies do, these hosts,they try and get as many people inwith a kind of free offer. And then as the podcastwill grow, as peoplewant to put more episodes in things like that, that's when they say,Hey, look, this is actually costing us moneyto host this. You need to jump ontoone of these other plans or we have all of these otherand you know, add ons additions,which you can use. Okay, cool. Now, the problem with thisis that competition is reallytight and you'll see a picture shortly of justhow many podcasting hosts there are and there'sa whole bunch of them and for example, isa whole bunch of podcasts as well.
And a lot of themare on anchor. And I guess I want to sayhere, there's like 4 million podcastsroughly and alone. A lot of them arethese kind of shows which people just put upand don't care about,sort of like I had. And so there's actuallyonly a relatively small number of active podcastsaround the 400,000 range. And so all of these companies are tryingto get these more active podcasts usually, although there are others,of course, which still have valueand people pay for, but they make them money mostlyfrom these small shows because by definitionmost podcasts are small.
So when you've got thiskind of freemium model, you'rekind of having to go after these small shows. And if you justcan't get enough of them, get off, go off to the small shows,and then kind of upsell them onto aonto a new product because that'show a lot of podcasts so podcasts start. That'show the ME and models did. We just jumped with a freeone and eventually we realised,Oh, this is really cool. We want to keep continuingthis. Okay,we'll stop paying for this because we want more abilityto upload episodes. We want to have greater functionality,things like this.
And if you just don'tget that momentum, that's,that's how you, you end up crashing and burning ornot running out of money. And this is what happenedto two sound up for example. The other problem thatexist is big bandwidth. You always talk aboutlike, you know, big pharma, big,big industrial, big, big militarythings like this while big bandwidth. The problem that a lot ofpodcast host have is they don't want big shows. They actually don't want their customersto really be successful. You go, okay, well, why? And so there is anothergreat podcast called Podcast Pontifications,hosted by Eric Volterra, and he had thisepisode called Hitting the Limits of LowCost Podcast Hosting.
At some point,if you're lucky or very strategic, your podcastmight become too popular just too popular for youto stay on the same low price hosting plan. Remember,unlimited downloads sounds all fine and gooduntil your popular show startscosting them real money. So yes, this is exactlywhat happens. Essentially, onceyou start hitting 10,000 or more downloads, the bandwidthcosts just skyrocket and once again, this is because podcasting, it'skind of this on demand. You can get it whenever you want, but when you releasean episode, if you're very popular,everyone's going to listento that straight away.
Or, you know, 90%,75% of your audience will hit that episodewithin the first 24 hours. And so the bandwidthcosts, maybe if you coulddistribute it over a week, it'd be all right if you had a weekly appepisode. But that's not howthis stuff happens. If you get absolutely hitand so this is whereI guess the the what are thea lot of the hosts do is they go, okay, well,once you've got someone adding this much bandwidth,you need to start have a chat with them. And this is what EvaTerra was saying. You know, this is whereyou'll get a message once you startgetting really popular.
It's like, hey, you know,your show is doing well. It's actually startingto cost us a lot of money. We need to cometo a solution and either this is we start paying moreas a kind of flat rate for your host. So, you know, for example,I think we pay $24 a month for the main modelswith with Buzz Sprout. If that gotreally popular, that wouldmaybe start saying, hey, like you need to startpaying hundred, maybe you need to start paying 200just to cover our cost. And then another way wouldbe, okay, well, perhaps we can do some sortof ad solution where, you know, you're the waythat you'll make money from ads.
And so if we can geta percentage of that, then the better your show goes,the more ads you pay, the more ads are gettingplayed. The more moneyyou're coming from ad advertisers, You know,we get a cut of that. Everyone's happyla di da da da. But there's always,I guess, you know, unless you get thesethings really aligned,this is where you can have the misaligned incentives comingwhere the podcast host actually kind of doesn'twant you to get popular. They would ratheryour show stay small and youplay pay that flat rate or is so small thatit doesn't even matter.
And so they can offer thatfree free service and it really doesn'thurt them at all. But you can you just gothink like, man, there's there's probably somethinglingering in the back of the mindwhere it is this misalignedincentives. They don't want youto get better. They don't want youto get more popular. So they might even startdoing some things which would make it so that you'renot as popular or, you know, they won't advertise your show,They won't do everything that they can toto help you out, which is a really funnysituation. You'd think like, Damn,okay, what's what's going on here?
Is there is there a way toperhaps solve this? It's not super, super bad, but it's still obviouslypeople are writing about these things. So it stillobviously is a problem. And this is wherewe're going to come to. Okay. What if we can becomemore closely linked? And so this is actuallysomething that I have experimentedwith and is happening on this very showright now as you speak. So Todd Cochrane, who is, I thinkone of the co-founders or thethe founder of Blueberry, he made a recent post on the podcastindex Mastodon, and he was talking abouthow the shows using the valuetag made 0.4 BTC.
So this is about40 million Satoshis, which is 10,000 us from from beinghosted on blueberry and using the valuetag there, which is pretty coolbecause man, that tag is, it's, it's kind of hiddenout of the way. It's called experimental. It's not the easiest thing to useand yet there's still, you know, a bit of money flowing through inthis was and they're ableto tell this because they geta 3% split of all of that. So they would get 3%of 10,000 U.S. which is if my math isokay, you know, 300 bucks, not it'snot a crazy amount. And that'ssince the start of 2023.
I wanted to actually get a little bitmore details on that. And, you know, how manypodcasts was that from? Because I bet it would be less than 100if I had to say. But yeah,so that's still cool. And it'lllink up with some the stats that I talked about a couple of weeks agoin the second hour. But you can haveyou can see, okay, this is an opportunity where the hosts have can partake directlyin the success of the show and of course is wherenegotiations can occur. So, for example,this very podcast, if you boost in 3% of it,is going to go to blubrry.
If this show gets very,very popular, I'm going to havemore people boosting it. And that'skind of how the the value for value model works,you know? Yeah, obviouslyyou have to do the ask. You have to createa good show. You have to make sure that people knowhow they can do it. And all of these sortsof things. But, you know, roughly4% of people will will contribute to the show. And once again,check out an episode in a couple of weeks where I'll talk about my ownvarious statistics and I'll be able to back this upwith some actual numbers. But the bigger the showgets, the more thatthey will earn.
So once again,this is where it's like incentivesare directly aligned, much like how they can have it with the the advertisingand if they getting a percentageof the advertising split, if they get a percentageof the value split of thatcoming in, okay, awesome. They can do this. And then yeah,negotiations can occur. I can say, oh, you know,3%, that's a that's a lot. Todd Like, I'm I'm, I'm not sure I'mhappy with that. And he's like a carand the cost man costs of doing this you get in very popularwe actually need a bump it up to 5% And I'm like,Oh damn.
And this is wherethe free market comes in. And if I don't like that,I could go do another podcast hostor you know, that that sort of deal,this is beautiful. This is how it shouldall work. Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't host jump onto this opportunity? You know, you hear thesearguments elsewhere, a value for values,not a steady income. So the host they need, you know,a steady stream coming in and it uses bitcoin,which is a scam. Oh, my God, Can't do that.It's such small numbers. Only 10,000us over the course of 2023 people won't pay.
You haveto force them to pay. I think all of these we'vekind of been debunked over the course of all ofthe value for value show. They're all fallacies. You know,people won't pay. No, they'll pay. It's it's just you just have to ask and you just have tochange your show so that it's easier for it so that they havethe incentives, too, so that they getpart of the feedback loop so that they know that they're actuallycontributing directly and they are havingan impact on such small numbers. You know, go back to two episodes agoto episode 48. This is where we saw,you know, a couple of years ago,it was only 60,000.
That's flowing through the ecosystema day now it's closer to 1 to 2million. Where will that bein two years time? And that could be anotherwhatever percentage X that is you know, 150X or something like that. So it's not hard to see. Okay. Well, you know, it's only maybe 10,000over the course of nine monthsat this very moment. What if that was 100,000or a million? Okay, Well, that's that's actually goingto stop making a big differenceto these podcasting hope companies, if theycan get a split of that. You know, BTC is a scam. I don't want to gointo that one.
v4v is not steady income. Yeah, sure. That's a that'san argument and some but once again,if this is a podcasting hosting company,if they have 5100 300 a thousand shows, which they'repart of the split off, you know, those showsare going to vary in their amount as well. But it's kind ofin the variance that you'll get some stability. So once again, there's athere's an option now, another optionthat is possible. But, you know,you could be saying, and this is all risky,what if my host fails? You know,what if what if Bluebird just goes out of business?
Ye of little faith? Do you think I'd forgotten aboutthe first two properties that I talked aboutin episode 40? This being decentralisationand being self-sovereign. So this is why we're going to jumpinto IP FS hosting. And so first, I mean, first ofall, if that's the case, what if my host failsand just move? It's not too hard. You know, I've I've all of my showshave been on multiple hostsmultiple times. It's a bit of a painin the ass, but, you know, it's it'snot, it's not that hard. But on a recent podcasting2.3 episode, episode 145,which had Alberto from Ask.com and Cameron,who is the guy who's kind of created Ipfspodcasting, hosting, it's they gointo this concept of being ableto do it in a direct in a peer to peer manner of distributing, of having,you know, decentralisation of your hosting.
So it's not just inthis one central location. That episodeis super complex. I roughly knewthe general idea coming in, but they got into the techside of things and they were talkingabout gateways that are talking aboutall this crazy stuff. So this is is kind of hardto sustain. So here'sthe basic overview. Yeah. Instead of having onecentral point where you uploadyour audio and it's getting absolutelyhammered, just like we were talking aboutwith the big bandwidth, you can have multipleproviders or peers, each providing a bit. So if you want to think of torrentingor the Pirate Bay, this is how that worked.
You would have a movieor a music on online. Multiple peoplewould have this online, and if someone wantedto get the episode, those or that movie or whateverit is, instead ofjust absolutely hammering one of those peoplewho had it, that person could justprovide part of the file and then someone else could providepart of the file. Think of it like a jigsaw. Everyone'sgot their little piece, everyone ownsthe full thing, they have the full jigsaw, but they just providea little piece to someone new who wantsto get that jigsaw puzzle. And then that waythey're not, you know, gettingabsolutely hammered and having a thousandpeople showing up their doorall trying to get their jigsaw puzzleat the same time.
And so this is whereyou can say, okay, your peers can helphost your files so that they're notever offline if your podcasting hostgoes down well, you know, or if one of the peersgoes down, that's okaybecause there's, you know, 50 others, 100 otherswhich are also hosting it. So once again,this is the the kind of decentralisation,even permissionless, because you can havejust multiple people coming on to usand I'll talk to you about how I'm doing thisfor this episode very shortly. And so once again, it'sthis idea of the tech behindit is very, very complex.
There's all sorts of crazythings going on with Ipfs, which stands for interplanetary filesystem of file storage. I've had both and this isthat central idea of of having multiple filesin various locations. And yet if one of themgoes down, it's okay because there's otherswhich are backups for it. Now, this is not going to completely replace hostingor anything like that. They still havea central point which they linkedto which is, you know, the host,which I have. But if that host goesdown, this should theoretically work. I actually, you know, I don't think anyone'stried it out where the main hostingcompany has gone down and this is all so new.
So this is just if you're interested inthese sorts of ideas is a here'sa little taste of for you. So getting onto the kind of peer to peer incentives, well,why would someone else host my file? What'swhat's in it for them? Because you were just talking about incentivesbefore. They needto have a reason for it. Because even though it might be onlya little bit of bandwidth, you know, they're still providingbandwidth that's still costing themmoney. Why wouldwhy would they do that? And so thisis where it's like, okay, a high value for valueincentives kick in.
And so if I provide a split,which I've done for this very episode, 5% ofthis is going to go to the Ipfshosting solution thing. That's going on here, and I might do thisgoing forward. I'm not sure I want totest out for this episode. Then whoever helps host this filewill get some of the sets as distributed via the Magic IpfsSystem technology. So there's a kind of like technologywhich is saying, Yeah, you provide this pieceof the jigsaw puzzle, you providethe end corner, you provide thislittle bit in the middle, and that all comes together to form a file whichsomeone can download.
What if I contributesome sets 5%? And so that 5%kind of goes into a pool. So each person who is providing a piece of that puzzle,then they get part of the sets for it. Now, it's not going to be hugeamounts because 5% of my showand then split that up to another 100 peopleor something, their only public to get, you know,tiny little bits. But once again,that's compensation for these tiny little bitsthat they're providing. So you can see, okay,this is maybe where the everyone'sgetting a part of the part of the pie, you know,everyone needs to win. Is, was the kind ofsubtitle of this episode and this is whereyou can see, okay,when incentives work, when everyone has anincentive to do something in and they are alignedand not misaligned, this is whereyou could go.
All right, sweet. This is you know, thisthis is making it work for everyone. Once again, there'sall sorts of things behind this old filesthat are getting no downloadsin a 48 hour period. They get removed unless they're favoritedby someone. You can just see how all of thiswould come together. There's this things in the backgroundwhich, sure, it could make itdifficult, but I'm more see this as the,you know, angel music. Oh aligned incentivesit's all coming together as from theThe Emperor's New Groove. What's his name,Gronk or something? Oh yeah. It'sall coming together.
So yeah, this is whereit's just a way. This is wherelike, a kind of like, littlebusiness episode of saying the value for valuecan work for businesses. Once again, this is fordigital products. It's nota physical products. I need to see more proofof this working in the real worldfor a physical product. I know some examples and I might do an episodeon that at some point, but this is definitely onewhere it's like, okay, this is worthlooking out for. If I was a hostingcompany, I would seriously be looking at doing thisand many of them are. I know RSS dot com hasthis feature as well.
Blue variables obviously, and I think all of them will come aroundat some stage because it's it isrelatively easy thing to to just put in thein the actual what would you call it. The RSS, the XML file. It's just the podcastis themselves needing to learnabout value for value and why they would want to ask the listenersto listen on a, on an app like Fountain and Stream sitesor to Brustein, which is hencewhy I have this show here. All right,beautiful suite. Let's go onto the Brewster Gremlins and I'll do some livechats at the same time. So I have a a small live chat here,which is just my discord and I can seewant to be very listening.
So thank youvery much for that. And so one was asking,is there a predicted path through where technically data storage becomescheaper and cheaper to allow for bandwidthexpansion? I look, I don't actuallyeven know what that means. I'm guessingyou're just saying it. If the bandwidthand data storage becomes cheaper,which tends to happen over timewith the internet, you can see howall of this this happens. Will willthis kind of make this be a justan unknown entity, a non-issue because,you know, audio files there aren't they aren'tthat big that usually what in the megabytesrange you know if unless it'slike a music one which can need a bit more outthis episode, for example, it'll probably besomewhere around 40 to 60, I think forabout 45 minutes worth.
So. So this is whereyou could say, Oh, well, if we just, if, if everything nextand was the same price, this would becomea non-issue. Yeah, potentially. Typically, though, what happens is peopleexpand their that capacity. So when you get moreenergy and energy is cheaper,you tend to use more. So there's you know, if I could make my audiofiles that much better by just adding more megabytes onto them, even if it was only a tiny little bit,I'd probably do it. And so that's one thing. There was also asking, could the podcast businesses, notby default, make podcasts possibly pay thempercent to as they grew, as they grow?
Yep, sure they can. But once again,this is just the because there'sso many podcast hosts this is where forcingpeople to do things, you can lose your customer pretty easilybecause people would just go, I'mjust going to go over to this host here,which doesn't have that. This I think is just in relation more likea business thing, the industry, because so many peoplewill start a podcast, not know if they reallywant to do it, not be serious about it. And so they don't wantto pay because it's it's, it's kind of like you needto you need to start and do it for a whileto realise if you want, if this is an avenue worthgoing down, much like we did one as my co-host in the miyamoto's,you know, it was probably onlyinto where we're, I don't know, 50to 100 episodes in where we were starting to go.
Like, okay,this is actually something we really enjoy. We can keep doing this. It's probably startworking worthy of looking at how we can make this betterfor our audience. And to do that, thenwe need to start paying. So I think that's more an industry thing rather than the actualbusiness itself. It if they start trying to force people to pay, it's just not going to workas, as great. And they might, you know,lose those people who would convert to becomingpaying customers if they'd just waiteda little bit longer. I don't know.
I'm not a podcast host, so I'm just kind ofguessing there. But as I mentioned with those couple of articles and there's links in all the chapter images, when if you listento this post and you'll see that peopleare obviously highlighting these issuesand talking about it. So there must be issues. So yeah, there we go. I'm going to jump ontothe boostagrams here and thank some people whohave supported the show. Welcometo the Value for value. Graham Lounge. As we were saying,you know, 5% of this is going to go to Ipfspodcasting, hosting. So if you are a nodeand you want to help support this showand you know, get paid for doing that, you know, favouritethis episode and, and you'll get some statscoming in hopefullyfrom the next week.
You know, we're goingto have to rely on very kind people like the people who support it in and I'll say at the very end how you cansupport the show but we've got coming upat the top here the beard tech. He says thank youfor the kind words. This is the guy who I wastalking about last week is creating the blogindex. We're still veryearly days and anyonewho wants to help dive in and create something great with code ideas,funding, etc., I'm more thanwelcome to come join in and help out in matrixor GitHub match. Seems like a great idea. The only issueI personally have with it is all the Trekkies,which is understandable, but what we aretrying to build will be 100% self-hosted not for profit and databroker.
Check a free exclamation mark 1000 sets sentusing fountain. Thank you very much,my friend. Yeah. Look, honestly, when it comes to privacythings, I am so oblivious. I chuck a lot of my stuffout there, so that's not something I really care aboutor watch too closely. So it's good to knowthat other people are on top of that and,and doing that. And yeah, once again when I get some time I, I'll probably try outmesh someday but it's it's loweron the priority list. I see. Once again Sam Sethi just absolutely blastingmy channel here with lots ofit just says received donation message you know19 sets 19 sets 3958.
So you must have been playing aroundwith the amounts because these arestreaming amounts. But I did see in thishe did send a message at some points, whereashere we go POD fans has a statsenabled blog with Zaps and Bruce love the ideaof also adding splits. We are creating an RSS2.06 feed and putting it in podcast indexwith the medium of blog. Very cool pod fan spin. What can't you doover there? What can't youdo? He's coming out with a the progressiveweb app on mobile in I think it's like about aweek's time. So yeah, I'mdefinitely going help him outwith the testing and things of all of that.That would be very cool.
But pod vents, it's yeah,it's getting stronger. It's getting you canlisten live and I've put up links and stuff to that as wellso very, very cool. I see Chad coming in herewith a row of threes. 3333 sent usingCosta matic, he says playing catch up. Thank you very much, Chad. If catch up all you want, I definitely needto update all of my episodes again. I've made it a solid craftpeople. The first seasonis pretty good. Apartfrom some of the chapters, I still need to fix those. But this first season,all the notes, all the links,everything works.
I still need to fix up the boosting amountsfor season two. So boosting amountsthe splits for season two. So my to do list and another one,an exciting one here from James Cridland,the host of POD News. Also, Sam Seth is our partnerin crime over at Pod News and he saidlike boost 1111 and that'sa row of Richards sent using fountainanother live on here from blueberry himself17,776 Baller using boost cli This is awesome we're getting like basically every method just need a curecost a boost and that'll sort it all out, he says. I inadvertentlyfound myself in the hosting game,getting a bunch of music uploaded of over the pastcouple of weeks.
It's been fun. Snip snip a reference to the runningwith scissors, their blueberries, Bruce Seeleyand his Bruce spot is actually in my splitsas well. So all of these boosts,once I finally get all the live chat andall that stuff working, that'll be a veryawesome addition. And once again,just showcasing the splits, showcasing that people are excitedabout all of these things. The music obviouslyhas really taken off and I would encouragepeople to to just keep an eye outon that because I'm going to get Adamas well. I hope to get Adamon the main models perhaps next month to talk about that becausehe's been doing it for, geez, what,close to two months now.
So I think you havesome interesting insights about the voiceof the music. But thank you, everyone.Thank you. Obviously, blueberry. Thank you for thatBig Bruce man. Much appreciated.That is going to the ipfs. So, Chad,if you're also listening, I know you do some hosting of nodesand things like that. If you want a favourite,this one, that'd be very, very cool. So that is the Boostagram Lounge. Once again, I didn't order it dueto Sam's shenanigans. Absolute shenanigansgoing on there. But thank you very mucheveryone, for boosting in very, very, very cool.
Oh yeah.And then blueberries. Just gota little thing here showing that the boost what actuallyactually works So awesome legend manyou are incredible. Keep those scissors. Just just keep them awayfrom your face. Your face is beautiful. Mint And don't get to too many scars orthings like that in there. Okay. Let's get to some tips. Some tips. The podcasting host. I need feedback. People, if they don'thave a podcast, they almost certainlyhave a YouTube channel. So I know Buzz Cast hasa Buzz Brat has podcast. I know that Blueberryhas the new media show. I'm pretty sureI've heard that some of the other most of the hosting companies, I believe,have their own podcast.
So this is a perfectopportunity for you to help support them and to let them knowwhat you want because they need to knowabout these things. If they don't have valuefor value, if they don'thave a split, if they don't have live tag that you want,if they don't have any of the numerous things that you want to to play with,to provide more value to your audience,they need to know about these things. And so buzz cast, for example,I supported them to Todd help me get this very livestream set up when I was with Casta Pod Yassine Handheld me through all of that.
And by being moreconnected with them, you do get benefitsfor yourself. So not only because, look,you're going to say, Hey, I want this, I want that,and they're going to go, Yeah, that's going to takea bit of time. So buzz cast, for example,a bus. Brad They haven'tgot the live talk. I would 100% be using thatbecause I use that for the modelsand the book reviews. I will be using that asof a week or two's time. They haven'tupdated it yet. They haven't got that all that functionalitybecause they they're very much focussedon the consumer on the what is it, the UI,the UX of making things run really smoothly, whereas I'm morein the experimental phase and I just want to stuff.
I don't care if it's hotand in care for breaks, I just want todo these things. So yeah,this is where it's, it's like it's worthy ofjust letting them know that'sand you get benefits. So open three and pod row, those are the two thingsthat time I got added to the modelsand you know, people were talking aboutthat. I had James Cridlandto boost it in just before he mentioned thaton Pod news, that kind of just, youknow, extra visibility, extra little functions,extra extra features. If you go on to POD fans,you'll see that pod roll is still workingfor my show, which highlightsother shows I think are worthyof of you checking out kind of like a recommendation listwithin within the the actual podcastapp itself.
All of these things help. And so that's just my tipfor today. You know, ultimatelyBlueberry got my business because they had thesefeatures like the value, like being ableto go live. The live one was a bigone for me. I really wanted to do thatfor this show. I was, you know,I was looking at moving it onto bus sprout,but they didn't have that. And so once again,the pod, the podcast hosts, I'm going to goand spend my money. And I spent a I can'tremember how much it was. It was probably about 200and something Australian dollars hosting this for a yearon on blueberry.
And, you know, not only that,but he's also receiving 3% of everythingthat's coming in so that while he blueberryis receiving that. So very, very cool. And that'sjust my tip for today. Reach out to your host. Tell them what they what you want,what you need, and you know, be willing toto share some of your your your profits, your your value with thembecause when they get better,you get better. And it's it's when those incentives are alignedthat it it really really takes it to a to a whole new level. So and I've just gotblueberry in the chat here saying live is littaking your show live takes the productionto a whole new level.
Ten out of tenwould do it again. I can definitely say forthis show it makes me prep and actuallyfor the models as well. I think it makes us prepbetter by doing it live. So there's there'svariations to this. I want to talkat some point about the kind of optimal show for value, for value, how you have to actually change your showa little bit. But that's definitelyfor a for another episode of my app and servicehighlight, this is a worthy reminderthat you actually don't need a podcast hosting companybehind the schemes. I don't thinkthey used one.
This is very, very show. I know. So Spencer, for example,he has a dimly a dim view feed templatewith comments and notes to help a musicianwho wants to sell fast. So he's got this thingwhere it's basically, you know,there's wavelike out and there's the music sideprojects. And once again,these are kind of like varying ordersof being able to to host it yourself. And he's like, Look,this is how you can do it. Here's somenotes. Anyone can do this. And this is where I somewhat agreeand somewhat disagree. I use cost upload, which was a self hostingsolution.
It's doableeven for the tech strugglerslike myself. Okay. They use a podcastingcompany called Pod Serve, but I'm pretty sure healters his own RSS feed. So once again, it's it'skind of like a half half thingthat he's doing. And that's somethingthat I want to look at in the future as well. But this is whereit's like, okay, you can, you can do ityourself. Costa Pod is a selfhosting solution. I had Digital Oceanas my servers. I installed their package. I was to basicallyget all my stuff uploadedwithout using what you would call a typicalpodcasting company.
CostaPod actually has added that service as a thing, but you can also do it the open source routeif you want, and the Self-Sovereignroute. This is beingable to host it yourself. Just rememberthere are trade-offs and time and pain pointsfor all of this. So for example, I very humorously locked myselfout of my very own feed. So this was for the valuefor value show. And basicallyI put the locked tag in. I lost my log in details. I couldn't log into my ownadministration dashboard and with the log tagthe companies, basically the point of that is tosay, I'm not going to ingest this RSS feedand be able to switch host because they put the locktag on it, which really fucked meover, especially becauseI had one episode left.
It was hilarious. I had one episodeleft of season two and I did that,so I basically had to recreatethe whole thing again just to be able topublish that last episode. A good learning pointfor me, and also good learning pointfor you guys at home. If you want to do selfhosting, just be prepared. You got to runningwith scissors, you got to you've got take some time. Some things are goingto be harder. And just like Burberry'ssaying, yeah, they have a handpacked feed that they submitto the index. You know, when things gowrong, that's on him now. It's not on the podcastinghost.
So the it's good to havethese aligned incentives. A host can do thingsthat I certainly can't. I'm not greatwith data management. I'm not great with, you know, the realfinicky side of technology and things like this. It's awesometo have a host for that and but it does trade offs of like I don't have all the featuresthat I would like, you know, that's okay. And you just have to keepthat in mind as a and yeah, if you want to knowmore about how to do self hosting. So Spencer'sa great resource for that. So if you go on to the podcast index Mastodon,you can find him there.
Finally, value for value. Who is 15% of this showgoing to go to? So obviously I've gotthe 5% go into the Ipfs podcasting hosting, but I want to give 15%to Cameron as well. This is a dudewho's living by a forest or a woods. If youlisten to that podcast, podcasting,2.0 episode, you'll you'll hearthat was a bit of debate about whetherit was a forest or woods. And he was like, he's just some rendered outin the woods who has created thisawesome system that's going to be so muchbackend work. There'sgoing to be so much time spent optimisingcertain niche things, learninghow to use ipfs like that, that placesthat thing is difficult to to understand,let alone build on top of.
You know, he's just another unsung herowho does great work that could really changean industry and reminds meof this picture that was posted on the podcast index Mastodon shout out to ChristopherEzine, which is showshow RSS is holding up the whole podcastingecosystem. It's this, it's this blockwhich is on the very edge wood kind of like a Jengatower, you know, it's the blockright at the bottom. If you pulled that out, everything comescrashing down and so this is whereit's like, you know, I want to getI want to shout out people who help create thingslike this where they're doing something that could thatis another building block and that could become anintegral building block of of, you know, hostingin the future, of making it more reliant,more distributed of creating incentivesthat work for everyone.
And so, yeah, bigshout out to Cameron Massive, massive, massivework that he's doing. And I'm going toleave it there for today and just give yousome recommendations of the value for value system. Sorry, there's a couple before I get into thatas couple of last frontier, JamesCridland was mentioning captivate chargesper download, which some podcasts which some podcastssee as a bad thing, but it means they reallywant to help you grow. And he was an advisor for them once, so he knows deeplyabout that as well. One also sent me a commentas well to do this was relatedto the memorial, so that's all good.
So yeah, very, very cool to have all of thesethings available. Value for value. This is a value for valueshow, obviously it is the valuefor value show. And there'sa couple of ways that you can helpsupport the show time, you know, sharing the showwith someone who is maybe looking at wonderingabout podcasting, hosting, about wondering aboutgetting a popular podcast, why are they charging memore, Why is thishappening to me? How can I becomemore distributed so that my followersdon't go offline and I'm a tech personor they're a tech person? They love to knowabout all these things.
Pleaseshare the show with them. I would really love to start reaching outto a bit of a greater audience to really. This is definitelythe show where I'm trying to I'm trying to helppeople understand value for value and the various parts that gointo all of these things. Not only the philosophy,but yes, in practice and the businessside of things as well. You could also come join for the live as Jamesas one as Burberry have done.This is very exciting. I love gettingthese little interactions talent.So next week topic, for example,is on open source.
Now I got a recommendation of for doing this from Sir Alex Gates months ago and. This topicas well as others were suggested by people. And if there's a topic that you would like to know about of the valuefor value, please reach out to me.Let me know. Hey, I really want to knowhow value for value workswith physical products. Okay, well, I'll spend more timeresearching, much like I have done today, to seewhere does this work. I already know, for example, that churchesand music, you know, church music, people willsometimes have CDs and it's likeyou just take a CD.
Anyone can get it. Just givewhat you think is worth or what youwhat you can contribute. And this is very muchon an ethos of V for V, and Iknow there's a guy at my local Bitcoin made up. He does it with honeyand who also does it with with meatand things like this. So it is possible,but if you've got a topic, please please reach outand let me know. And or just resources. Things that you think would be interesting toto hear about. And then finally,the treasure, the three options available for youat this very moment. You can geta new podcasting app.
I mentioned a whole bunchof them in the boostagramsjust then, so people boosted inby a castamatic via pod fans, by a by a fountainby the Bruce CLI and other great ones are things like podcastguru of things like podverse obviously pod verse is a massive one and curiocaster and I thinkthere's even more and I'm just forgetting them at the momentbut you know, those are a great wholebunch of options. You're helping supportthe show, you're helping support Cameron,you're helping support Burberrywith as Bruce Bartlett, you're helping support the Ipfs hosting.
All of this is getting distributedto various people and to me, of course,which is very much appreciated. I told you how much my hosting costfor this year, so I'd really loveto recoup that. At the very least,that would be awesome. So you can do itvia there. You can do itdirectly to me at KYRIN at get Alby dot com a slightly riskier routeif you want to do it that way. Because I don't checkthese as I do check in regularly. But it's harder to seebecause the ALBY extension with the incoming,it doesn't show me a full weeks worth. It only shows me upto a certain point.
So I can't see every single onethat's coming in. But yeah, that's very much appreciated that you can do itby there as well. Another optionis going directly to the podcastingindex site and boosting in with Alby. From there, which will honourall of the splits, which is very, very cool. And then finally,if you go to me Immortals podcast dotcom such support this one likely won't getread out the PayPal. I don't check thatfor these shows, but there is a PayPaloption there and you can boost and buy there as well directlyto the memorial. So lots of differentfor you available if you're in Brisbane.
You could also I don'tknow, reach out to me and Henry some cash in personif you want. Buy me a drink.That'd be awesome. I'd be really fun. I'm going to leave itthere for today. Thank you very muchfor everyone to join live. Thank you very much foreveryone who contributed. Thank you very much. For everyone who's listening nowlater as well, it's it's awesometo see all of this. And I'm really lovingthe the interactions. It's very heartfelt. I'm gladto know the effort I'm putting in is having some sort of effectand helping out people. So we'll leave it there.
As I mentioned,next week's episode is going to be allabout open source and yet until then,chao for now, Kyrin out.
