Me, N U baby. On Ep #5 we'll be examining why the V4V model can be thought of as a fine dining experience. Dave Jones gives us his thoughts on this analogy and I deconstruct how value is tied to feeling, why one party must make the first move by providing value from the get go and how expectation of receiving value can change across cultures.
A big thanks to Oscar Merry and an anonymous booster for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
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Do you know what's on the menutonight? Me and you bounce back have one. Wow. Oh, yeah, that'sit. We are starting off with some cheesy love pickup linestoday. Welcome everyone, to another episode of the value forvalue podcast. My name is Kyrin. And I do this podcast for thosewho want to learn more about the value for value model andexplore more in depth the interaction between you as apodcaster artists, independent creator, and how you can have aconnection with your audience and create value through thatnot just money, but in terms of time, talent, treasure, and allof these good fun things. Now, that wasn't just a cheesy pickupline for the hell of it. It's actually related to today'stopic, which is the fine dining experience of the value forvalue. Now the value for value as an experience, what does thatmean? So first of all, I just want to say I'm not an expert,I'm just a guy trying to live out this model. So I need help.This is a recently relative invention for me this concept ofvalue for value. And so I've called it a model, but one couldeasily argue that it's a philosophy, a pragmatic way tolive, or in this case, an experience. So recently, Ichatted with Dave Jones, who is from podcasting 2.0. Now, he isthe co host with Adam Curry of that show. And Adam curry, asI've mentioned before, is the, in my version, the creator ofthe value for value model. And so he's been doing this for along time with a no agenda show.
And they have been doing ittogether on podcasting 2.0 for about a year now. So I wanted toask Dave, what is value for value, and this is the responsethat he gave me. The idea of value for valuemeans that it's, it's the opposite. I like to think of itlike eating, it's the opposite of fast food, you have fast foodand you have a sit down restaurant, you can you couldtake your content, your content, you say, Okay, I think thiscontent is valuable this podcast. And you could put itbehind a paywall, and so you need to subscribe to and it'sgonna cost you $5 a month.
There's two problems with that.Number one, you restrict who can hear it, number one, number one,number two, you're putting the price on it, you're saying thatthis podcast, I think it's worth $5 a month, $7 a month, $10 amonth. That's, that's fast food that's you pay first, then youget it. And you just hope that what you paid for was worth whatyou got, yeah, you know, versus a sit down restaurant, which islike value for value, you get the food first you get the meal,you get to enjoy the content. And then after it's over, youexpress to the server and to the restaurant, how much value itwas, you know, it feels a hell of a meal, you're gonna givethem a big tip, you know, you're gonna you're gonna give backsomething if they just if that server, you know, it was it wasJohnny on the spot and did a great job. I mean, you might,you know, you may give him a 30% tip or more. So that's that sortof, and we all know instinctively that that sit downrestaurant, that meal is the is the better experience, it's themore fine dining experience. And so for people who have contentthere, the value for value model says, You need to value yourcontent high enough, in order to serve it to somebody and expectthat they are going to reward you richly for that, for thatcontent.
So to deconstruct and elaborateon what Dave was saying, the one of the first things that jumpedout at me was he mentioned feeling and I really do feelthat value is tied to feeling. So he mentioned, the fine diningexperience is going to feel better. And I think this is whatreally ties into the experience of being a podcaster andindependent Creator and having that relationship is that it'snot going to be transactional, that's probably not the best wayto be thinking about it, you should be thinking about it morein terms of evoking a feeling so whether this is a sadnesshappiness, a positive one or negative one, I don't really seethe value for value model really being able to work when you arecoming at it and providing a service. So there is definitelypeople out there who are teaching English for example,and you could do this down the real technical route of puregrammar, pure etc, etc. These are the five different thingsyou need to know about this word and how to conjugate it whatnot.Or you could go down the route more like my friend Pete didfrom Aussie English, who was on I believe that was episode numbertwo. And you could go down the route of providing somethingextra on top of that, which is for him, his personality, hishumor, his quirks, all of those things. So I would defer Theysay, with a value for value model, you really do want to bethinking about the feelings that you're evoking and using that totie into value rather than thinking of it in atransactional means. He also talked about the experience ofit. So hence the fine dining experience of value for value.And I think with this, you need to acknowledge that for you, theother party will have to make the first move I if you're thewaiter in this situation, you're the one who needs to befriendly. First, you're the one who needs to provide that energyto ask your customers, hey, the people sitting down to eat, doyou need this? Do you need to water topped up? How's the mealgoing? Is there anything I can do to enhance this? Etc, etc?The same with the podcaster? You know, can I be more funny? Can Iprovide more value by doing this thing? Would you enjoy it moreif I put this pot at this pit or at the end? Am I is the audioquality, good, should I be doing this etc, etc. So really, youneed to be the one providing it upfront, and then having thatassumption that it's going to work out well. So the KFC is theMcDonald's of fast foods of this world, the waiter has alreadybeen paid for in this situation.
With his analogy, we just haveto be careful, I think that we're talking about the servicemore in this case. So this is I'm not going to provide theMcDonald's waiter, which there really is none. But at least youknow the person at the front desk, I'm not going to betipping them because it's already paid for. And thatupfront costs when I give them that and then it's like, okay,my meal is going to be coming in, there's not going to beadditional extras on top of that. Whereas with the finedining, you know, I go there ate the food, I have theinteractions with the waiter, and maybe the owner and maybeeven the chef, if you're really into that sort of thing. Andthen that's where I will be adding that extra bit on top. Sothis is not even just the cost of the meal, this is moretalking about the tipping pot.
So just have to be careful aboutwith that analogy that it's really focusing on the waiterand not the food. So sort of the service associated with that.Now the great thing with the value for value that's currentlybeing implemented via Satoshis. And being able to send those toyour favorite podcaster and whatnot, is that you can splitit up individually. So it's a lot harder for me to go to afine dining restaurant and tip, specifically, the cook, forexample, or specifically, the cleaners or whoever it is thatyou know, created the ambiance in that area. Whereas withwhat's being currently set up, and you can do this right now isyou can go you know what I really enjoyed that oneparticular aspect of the episode, I want to give thatvalue to that particular person or as you can spread it outamong all of them, because the whole experience was awesome.One more thing was expectation, he said that at the end, there'sgoing to be an expectation that you will get value in return.And this I think, is the most almost risky part, the trickypart because this can be very dependent on your culture. Andthis was actually something that jumped out at me real recently,where I had a opportunity to chat with two people, one fromthe Netherlands and one from Colombia. Now in Australia, wedon't have a tipping culture. So I don't believe I've ever tippedanyone here for their service.
No matter what restaurant itwas, no matter what type of situation I got into the normalones, I guess you would say, if you're from a culture, whichdoes have that, that just doesn't happen here. InArgentina, for example, they have tipping, but it's a weirdmix, because it's almost compulsory, when I was there.Typically at the end of my meals, the bill would come andthen it would have the meal price, which was which Iexpected to pay, because that's what I saw on the menu. And thenthey would already add a 10% charge to it as a tip. Now thisis a bit of a weird one, because I could argue that and say, Hey,I don't want that. But it's also sort of compulsory in the sensethat they're already putting it on there. So it's not so much megiving it it's that expectation of it. And then in theNetherlands, this is where they do have a true tipping culture,I would say and that you go to a restaurant and whatnot. Now Ihaven't actually been there.
This is me just doing researchon the internet. And from what my friend was saying, which washe when he tried to tip people here in Australia, they thoughtOh, that's weird. Like, why are you doing that? That's that'snot how it's done here. So that expectation part, I can totallysee that being dependent on the audience you're creating aswell. So not only is it your audience's natural, innatepreferences, I am Australian, I'm probably not used to tippingthat much. But you also have to explain it and and show thatthis is going to be a somewhat of an expectation. If you'relistening to the value for value show. You know, it's sort ofexpected that if you're getting value from it, you give mesomething in return. Now, however you want to do that, andhowever you value that, that's fine, but there is thatexpectation there. So part of that is due to the culture andthen part of that as you as the The podcasts or the creator,whatever it is, you're the one who has to push that out thereand show that. So that is the fine dining experience of thememo of the value for value podcast. Sorry, I'm just so usedto saying the mere mortals because that's my regular show,which you should check out by the way is pretty cool. This isthe value for value podcast. So I want to give out some shoutouts to some people who have sent some value back to me inthe boostagram form. So thank you very much for the two that Ireceived one from Oscar Murray from the fountain FM at youshould check them out. That's cool, very cool app. He said,really enjoyed this episode car.
And fascinating to hear you talkabout the connection between podcaster and listener. Thanksfor the fountain shout out as well, smiley face. Hey, mypleasure, Oscar really enjoy it. The app is very cool. I wouldeasily recommend people to go do that. And yes, see, this is aperfect example. Because this show was really recent. I'mstill trying to figure out exactly how I want to do itexactly how I want to run it. And then I get a message likethis saying that connection between the podcaster andlistener, okay, Hell, yes, that's a guidepost for me to godown. I can give more value this way by examining that mole. Sothat's definitely something I'm going to be keeping in mind andworking on. The other one was simply boost exclamation point. Sothis was sent using Breez and Breez has now just put theability to put in boostagrams.
Unfortunately, you do have toadd your name in the actual message itself. So I can't givesome props to the person who did this. But hey, both of those.Thank you so much, I really, really do appreciate that. Ifyou do want to give value in another way to the value forvalue podcast, you can actually obviously do it via the boostagrams and whatnot and those sorts of things. But if there'syou just want to send a comment to me go to the meme at meremortals podcast on Instagram, that's probably the easiest wayto connect with me personally. Now, I also want to give sometips as well. So some tips related to podcasting 2.0, newfeatures, things like that. So I would want to say play aroundwith multiple value value apps.
So we've already talked aboutfountain just now. But there's plenty of others, breeze curiocaster pod friend, I believe pod verse has got the ability tostream Satoshis now as well. And there's all these cool thingsthat I'm noticing about myself when I use them. And I use themin different ways. And this is depending on the app. So for me,I really like sending long boostagrams via curio casteror pod friend because I use them on the desktop more it's easierfor me to write with the keyboard, I'm not having to useit on my mobile etc etc. For fountain I like really shortsharp ones, which are typically smaller in value. And I sendthose just as test ones or as ones to people who I regularlylisten to and just want to give a quick shout out that appearsin the in my head in my in the moment for breeze. I really liketo use that for streaming sites.
That's my favorite one becauseit's got the chapters. It's one where I can just sit there, letit play. And the chapters will pop up and whatnot. While I'mwatching while I'm streaming Satoshis. So I would just say,hey, try out a bunch of these different apps. And you'llprobably like I would say most people in the podcasting 2.0community, you're going to find out that you're using two orthree apps maybe even more like me, and you're using them fordifferent purposes because the apps themselves have createddifferent ways of interacting with the app. So that is ittoday for the value for value podcast. Thank you for joiningme. I really hope you enjoyed this and got some value out ofit. And other than that hope you're having a fantastic daywherever you are in the world Kyrin out
Do you know what's on the menutonight? Me and you bounce back have one. Wow. Oh, yeah, that'sit. We are starting off with some cheesy love pickup linestoday. Welcome everyone, to another episode of the value forvalue podcast. My name is Kyrin. And I do this podcast for thosewho want to learn more about the value for value model andexplore more in depth the interaction between you as apodcaster artists, independent creator, and how you can have aconnection with your audience and create value through thatnot just money, but in terms of time, talent, treasure, and allof these good fun things. Now, that wasn't just a cheesy pickupline for the hell of it. It's actually related to today'stopic, which is the fine dining experience of the value forvalue. Now the value for value as an experience, what does thatmean? So first of all, I just want to say I'm not an expert,I'm just a guy trying to live out this model. So I need help.This is a recently relative invention for me this concept ofvalue for value. And so I've called it a model, but one couldeasily argue that it's a philosophy, a pragmatic way tolive, or in this case, an experience. So recently, Ichatted with Dave Jones, who is from podcasting 2.0. Now, he isthe co host with Adam Curry of that show. And Adam curry, asI've mentioned before, is the, in my version, the creator ofthe value for value model. And so he's been doing this for along time with a no agenda show.
And they have been doing ittogether on podcasting 2.0 for about a year now. So I wanted toask Dave, what is value for value, and this is the responsethat he gave me. The idea of value for valuemeans that it's, it's the opposite. I like to think of itlike eating, it's the opposite of fast food, you have fast foodand you have a sit down restaurant, you can you couldtake your content, your content, you say, Okay, I think thiscontent is valuable this podcast. And you could put itbehind a paywall, and so you need to subscribe to and it'sgonna cost you $5 a month.
There's two problems with that.Number one, you restrict who can hear it, number one, number one,number two, you're putting the price on it, you're saying thatthis podcast, I think it's worth $5 a month, $7 a month, $10 amonth. That's, that's fast food that's you pay first, then youget it. And you just hope that what you paid for was worth whatyou got, yeah, you know, versus a sit down restaurant, which islike value for value, you get the food first you get the meal,you get to enjoy the content. And then after it's over, youexpress to the server and to the restaurant, how much value itwas, you know, it feels a hell of a meal, you're gonna givethem a big tip, you know, you're gonna you're gonna give backsomething if they just if that server, you know, it was it wasJohnny on the spot and did a great job. I mean, you might,you know, you may give him a 30% tip or more. So that's that sortof, and we all know instinctively that that sit downrestaurant, that meal is the is the better experience, it's themore fine dining experience. And so for people who have contentthere, the value for value model says, You need to value yourcontent high enough, in order to serve it to somebody and expectthat they are going to reward you richly for that, for thatcontent.
So to deconstruct and elaborateon what Dave was saying, the one of the first things that jumpedout at me was he mentioned feeling and I really do feelthat value is tied to feeling. So he mentioned, the fine diningexperience is going to feel better. And I think this is whatreally ties into the experience of being a podcaster andindependent Creator and having that relationship is that it'snot going to be transactional, that's probably not the best wayto be thinking about it, you should be thinking about it morein terms of evoking a feeling so whether this is a sadnesshappiness, a positive one or negative one, I don't really seethe value for value model really being able to work when you arecoming at it and providing a service. So there is definitelypeople out there who are teaching English for example,and you could do this down the real technical route of puregrammar, pure etc, etc. These are the five different thingsyou need to know about this word and how to conjugate it whatnot.Or you could go down the route more like my friend Pete didfrom Aussie English, who was on I believe that was episode numbertwo. And you could go down the route of providing somethingextra on top of that, which is for him, his personality, hishumor, his quirks, all of those things. So I would defer Theysay, with a value for value model, you really do want to bethinking about the feelings that you're evoking and using that totie into value rather than thinking of it in atransactional means. He also talked about the experience ofit. So hence the fine dining experience of value for value.And I think with this, you need to acknowledge that for you, theother party will have to make the first move I if you're thewaiter in this situation, you're the one who needs to befriendly. First, you're the one who needs to provide that energyto ask your customers, hey, the people sitting down to eat, doyou need this? Do you need to water topped up? How's the mealgoing? Is there anything I can do to enhance this? Etc, etc?The same with the podcaster? You know, can I be more funny? Can Iprovide more value by doing this thing? Would you enjoy it moreif I put this pot at this pit or at the end? Am I is the audioquality, good, should I be doing this etc, etc. So really, youneed to be the one providing it upfront, and then having thatassumption that it's going to work out well. So the KFC is theMcDonald's of fast foods of this world, the waiter has alreadybeen paid for in this situation.
With his analogy, we just haveto be careful, I think that we're talking about the servicemore in this case. So this is I'm not going to provide theMcDonald's waiter, which there really is none. But at least youknow the person at the front desk, I'm not going to betipping them because it's already paid for. And thatupfront costs when I give them that and then it's like, okay,my meal is going to be coming in, there's not going to beadditional extras on top of that. Whereas with the finedining, you know, I go there ate the food, I have theinteractions with the waiter, and maybe the owner and maybeeven the chef, if you're really into that sort of thing. Andthen that's where I will be adding that extra bit on top. Sothis is not even just the cost of the meal, this is moretalking about the tipping pot.
So just have to be careful aboutwith that analogy that it's really focusing on the waiterand not the food. So sort of the service associated with that.Now the great thing with the value for value that's currentlybeing implemented via Satoshis. And being able to send those toyour favorite podcaster and whatnot, is that you can splitit up individually. So it's a lot harder for me to go to afine dining restaurant and tip, specifically, the cook, forexample, or specifically, the cleaners or whoever it is thatyou know, created the ambiance in that area. Whereas withwhat's being currently set up, and you can do this right now isyou can go you know what I really enjoyed that oneparticular aspect of the episode, I want to give thatvalue to that particular person or as you can spread it outamong all of them, because the whole experience was awesome.One more thing was expectation, he said that at the end, there'sgoing to be an expectation that you will get value in return.And this I think, is the most almost risky part, the trickypart because this can be very dependent on your culture. Andthis was actually something that jumped out at me real recently,where I had a opportunity to chat with two people, one fromthe Netherlands and one from Colombia. Now in Australia, wedon't have a tipping culture. So I don't believe I've ever tippedanyone here for their service.
No matter what restaurant itwas, no matter what type of situation I got into the normalones, I guess you would say, if you're from a culture, whichdoes have that, that just doesn't happen here. InArgentina, for example, they have tipping, but it's a weirdmix, because it's almost compulsory, when I was there.Typically at the end of my meals, the bill would come andthen it would have the meal price, which was which Iexpected to pay, because that's what I saw on the menu. And thenthey would already add a 10% charge to it as a tip. Now thisis a bit of a weird one, because I could argue that and say, Hey,I don't want that. But it's also sort of compulsory in the sensethat they're already putting it on there. So it's not so much megiving it it's that expectation of it. And then in theNetherlands, this is where they do have a true tipping culture,I would say and that you go to a restaurant and whatnot. Now Ihaven't actually been there.
This is me just doing researchon the internet. And from what my friend was saying, which washe when he tried to tip people here in Australia, they thoughtOh, that's weird. Like, why are you doing that? That's that'snot how it's done here. So that expectation part, I can totallysee that being dependent on the audience you're creating aswell. So not only is it your audience's natural, innatepreferences, I am Australian, I'm probably not used to tippingthat much. But you also have to explain it and and show thatthis is going to be a somewhat of an expectation. If you'relistening to the value for value show. You know, it's sort ofexpected that if you're getting value from it, you give mesomething in return. Now, however you want to do that, andhowever you value that, that's fine, but there is thatexpectation there. So part of that is due to the culture andthen part of that as you as the The podcasts or the creator,whatever it is, you're the one who has to push that out thereand show that. So that is the fine dining experience of thememo of the value for value podcast. Sorry, I'm just so usedto saying the mere mortals because that's my regular show,which you should check out by the way is pretty cool. This isthe value for value podcast. So I want to give out some shoutouts to some people who have sent some value back to me inthe boostagram form. So thank you very much for the two that Ireceived one from Oscar Murray from the fountain FM at youshould check them out. That's cool, very cool app. He said,really enjoyed this episode car.
And fascinating to hear you talkabout the connection between podcaster and listener. Thanksfor the fountain shout out as well, smiley face. Hey, mypleasure, Oscar really enjoy it. The app is very cool. I wouldeasily recommend people to go do that. And yes, see, this is aperfect example. Because this show was really recent. I'mstill trying to figure out exactly how I want to do itexactly how I want to run it. And then I get a message likethis saying that connection between the podcaster andlistener, okay, Hell, yes, that's a guidepost for me to godown. I can give more value this way by examining that mole. Sothat's definitely something I'm going to be keeping in mind andworking on. The other one was simply boost exclamation point. Sothis was sent using Breez and Breez has now just put theability to put in boostagrams.
Unfortunately, you do have toadd your name in the actual message itself. So I can't givesome props to the person who did this. But hey, both of those.Thank you so much, I really, really do appreciate that. Ifyou do want to give value in another way to the value forvalue podcast, you can actually obviously do it via the boostagrams and whatnot and those sorts of things. But if there'syou just want to send a comment to me go to the meme at meremortals podcast on Instagram, that's probably the easiest wayto connect with me personally. Now, I also want to give sometips as well. So some tips related to podcasting 2.0, newfeatures, things like that. So I would want to say play aroundwith multiple value value apps.
So we've already talked aboutfountain just now. But there's plenty of others, breeze curiocaster pod friend, I believe pod verse has got the ability tostream Satoshis now as well. And there's all these cool thingsthat I'm noticing about myself when I use them. And I use themin different ways. And this is depending on the app. So for me,I really like sending long boostagrams via curio casteror pod friend because I use them on the desktop more it's easierfor me to write with the keyboard, I'm not having to useit on my mobile etc etc. For fountain I like really shortsharp ones, which are typically smaller in value. And I sendthose just as test ones or as ones to people who I regularlylisten to and just want to give a quick shout out that appearsin the in my head in my in the moment for breeze. I really liketo use that for streaming sites.
That's my favorite one becauseit's got the chapters. It's one where I can just sit there, letit play. And the chapters will pop up and whatnot. While I'mwatching while I'm streaming Satoshis. So I would just say,hey, try out a bunch of these different apps. And you'llprobably like I would say most people in the podcasting 2.0community, you're going to find out that you're using two orthree apps maybe even more like me, and you're using them fordifferent purposes because the apps themselves have createddifferent ways of interacting with the app. So that is ittoday for the value for value podcast. Thank you for joiningme. I really hope you enjoyed this and got some value out ofit. And other than that hope you're having a fantastic daywherever you are in the world Kyrin out
