Value 4 Value

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You think we're content with just empowering audio creators?! In Ep#49 we're going to examine the current problem with blogging, why NOSTR & Stacker News have been successful and how v4v might make it's way into all text communication.

Huge thanks to The Bearded Tek, Nick Malster, Sam Sethi, The Golden Dragon, Adam Curry, Chris Fisher & Boobury for supporting the show. What a week!

15% of this episode is going to The Bearded Tek for working on a blogging version of all the cool podcasting innovation.

Handy links:
Blog Index Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#blogindex.xyz:matrix.org
Blog Index Github: https://github.com/blogindex/
Blog Index Website: https://blogindex.xyz/
Boobury's Show Notes: https://zososcorner.substack.com/p/s01e169


Value 4 Value Support:
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[00:00:00] Unknown:

You think we're content with   just empowering audio creators?   Ho, ho, ho!   Welcome everyone to another   value for value episode.   Kyrin here from the Mere Mortals podcast.   Mere Mortals book reviews,   but this show   is the one for digital   content creators   who want to connect more deeply   with their audience and to monetise   whatever it is that they're creating.   And I can hear you screaming now, Kyrin,   you audiophile.   You've only been focusing on audio and music.   How dare you? What about text?   What about video? Whoa, Nelly. Whoa, Nelly.   Okay, I'll. I'll help you out.  

I'll help you out with this.   And so this episode here is going to be   focusing on how, if you are a blogger,   perhaps if maybe you're an author,   you can start experimenting   with value for value and and how this can help   connect you   with your audience   and once again monetise in different ways.   And I'll do a separate video,   a separate episode on on video in the near future.   And definitely in this season.   So I'm going to give   a strong caveat here that even though I   personally love   books, I've got a whole, you know, minimalist   book reviews about it.  

I don't really read that much in the digital format   on the screen. I'm not a big fan of that.   So blogs, for example,   I've never really   gotten into and for both consumption   and creation, I'm not a great writer,   so I don't know this as deeply as I do   all of the podcasting sort of things,   but I do know a fair bit about it.   So we're going to jump   right into here and let's just jump in,   as opposed to the first problem,   which is we'll start off with something niche.   How do bloggers make money?   And this is was something where I was like,   no, you know,   I think I could have a rough guesstimate of it,   but let me do a little bit   of research and find out.  

So I was trawling through some YouTube videos.   I was going through some blogs about blogging   and how to make money and blogging.   You know, the the classic feedback loop   or the metal type of deal going on there.   And basically what I came up with   and what I came away   from this   and you'll see this on your screen   now if you're if you're looking,   it's mostly display ads, affiliate marketing   brands, sponsorships, product sales services,   the podcasting overlap is very strong.   That's the same sort of deal that you'll hear   with podcasting   a lot of the time, how to how to,   you know, the big podcasts make their money.  

They'll typically do it through things like this.   And the not only just in that respect,   but even I guess kind of the numbers   or percentages of numbers are very similar.   So once again, just doing some rough   research, it seem that was probably about   5 to 600 million blogs.   And you go, Man, that's a lot of blogs.   That seems like too many.   But you got to remember,   almost every company   has a blog of some sort   where they're talking about their product   not only individuals.   The access to blogs is much easier.   They started off, you know, RSS,   you can   create blogs in the nineties,   whereas with podcasting, you know, the attachment   of an enclosure of an audio file or video   was on the until the the about the mid 2000.  

So blogs   have been around for a lot longer   and they've also got a lot of just   I suppose accumulation so 5 to 600 million   once again   it seemed like there was maybe   10% of those that were active.   So very similar to podcasting   where there's about 4 million podcasts,   but only about 10%, 400,000 of them   are actually active.   So we can see, okay, well, there's   there is a method of, of,   of being able to, to monetise.   Does any of those things really connect you   with your audience   better display ads, affiliate marketing   brand sponsorships, product sales   services know that   that rather extractive all of those. And   so this is on the   I guess the blogging side of things.  

The other thing I think of when I think of   of text of digital content creation through   text is also perhaps something like e-books.   And so you could say authors they might find.   I have a similar problem that musicians   do in a certain respect.   I mean, definitely in the   the book sales world, it sounds very similar   to where authors get very little of the royalties   of their actual books that they create.   You know, they do all the work,   but it's the distributors, the publishers that   make most of the money,   the kind of middlemen sort of thing.   Once again,   this is not digital content creation,   so I won't get too deeply into that.  

But I think even the Kindle and e-book   dynamics,   they're probably similar or similar where it's   it's the physical sale of the book and   maybe this is a method that works,   but I know that I've   heard all sorts of things over the years of how   the incentive with that was then   to write these really short e-books,   which you could try and sell   as much as as possible of,   because if you write a big long one,   you know, a well-crafted book   and it's just not selling digitally, well then,   you know, you're not going to be able to survive.   You're not going to be able to do it,   do what it is that you perhaps really want to do   and that you're actually   really good at and is valuable.  

But there's no mechanism for for people   to to really connect with that or the   the value   mechanism isn't strong enough   for you to be able to survive.   So once again, I guess you could just say   there's a little bit of   overlap between   the digital communication of of text   and content creation of of a text based   product and with the audio.   And as we've found out with the podcasting,   as I've been talking about and recently   with the music sort of thing, so I can   then hear you saying, okay, well y v for V then   what's this going to do?   How, how can this sort of thing help me?  

We've already got all of these other mechanisms.   Why don't you just do that?   And yeah, and if you're not good at,   you know, creating ads, affiliate marketing   and creating a blog   through that way, you know,   what's what's the point of all of this?   Once again, I think the reason   for value for value is numerous.   You can connect more deeper with your audience.   But I also have a bit of a cautionary tale here   and say this is something I do know very well   and there was this guy   I used to follow called Rush V back in the   I'm going to say it was like   the 20 tens was roughly when I was   reading this guy and he he had this blog about   picking up girls, which was something   I was very interested back in those days   that was, you know, teenage choir   and very socially anxious, very just   I just didn't know actually was probably even   before the 20 tens.  

I mean, to say like late 2000, mid to late 2000.   And I was very much just wanting to like know,   how do you talk to girls, you know,   how do you get over the social anxiety?   And he had a lot of great advice for that.   Some of it not so helpful.   And it's   it stuck with me to this day, and I kind of need   to unlearn some of those things.   But it immensely valuable for for young Kyrin,   who just had no other options, who didn't know   any of these things.   And this guy was very analytical.   He explained it in a way that me being an engineer   could can understand.  

Unfortunately for him, he   incurred the wrath of the of the platforms.   And so over the many years of him   blogging and writing e-books,   and I suppose even physical books as well,   he got deplatformed from people, got deplatformed   from Amazon and from Twitter.   You know, it was this acceptable?   Was he breaking the boundaries, the laws?   I mean,   for the Twitter, you could probably say,   yeah, you know,   he was probably writing some things which   were contrary to their policies or whatnot.   You know, you know,   there are big independent company   that can do what they want. Sure. Get him off.  

But when it comes to like PayPal   and Amazon, you know, you can't   it's not like he was writing   or doing things on the Amazon website.   It was just he was putting his books up there.   And at some point they decided, no, no, no,   you can't put this up there.   We're going to kick you off.   And with PayPal, I mean, that   that's kind of just, you know,   financial repression, I feel, at least so   his content was deemed unacceptable.   And the funny thing with this was his blog   and his forum   was still working because, you know,   he ran the infrastructure   for those He owned the RSS feed he was with,   you know, whatever,   you know,   you'd have to get to the level   of like trying   to deplatform someone from Amazon Web   Services or Digital Ocean or something like that.  

And so they still worked, but the financial   repression was was definitely real.   He felt it.   And I saw,   you know, his struggles and his problems with us.   And so this was just one of those ones   where I was like, okay, well,   he was very much an audience based   membership type thing.   So I think he did have memberships   and I believe he did have tips   and subscription options.   And even if you go   to his website at the very moment   you can see he still does,   how have all of those things?   And so once again, you can go, okay, well,   why do we need value for value?  

You've got all these other   things, you've got memberships,   you've got tips, you've got subscriptions.   Why do we need value for value?   And this is where I would just go to,   I suppose, like the fundamentals.   If you want to jump back on to season one,   if you check out episode five or seven or 11   and where I was talking about   the frustrations of donations of paywalls   and how they limit your your audience   and your listenership   just in general, why they're not great.   So we can see, okay, Well,   you know,   one, there's this perhaps   a little bit of problems with the   with the ads and things like that.  

You might not want to go down that route.   And if you do, you can have some some problems.   And then even then, if you're doing   the audience base thing,   you cannot you can still feel the pain of   of being kicked   off of platforms of not having,   you know, the full qualities   which I was talking about   in the very first episode   of the season or the second episode.   So we can see value for value has a place in the   the digital content creation of text for sure.   And just like it does for, for podcasting.   And there's a myriad of reasons.   I'm trying to just go over some of these here.  

Another problem   I guess you would experience   with the digital   and on the tech side of things is on text,   is that the two way communication?   And once again, here's another tale from myself,   a personal experience, sort of okay.   Over the years of doing multiple podcasts   and people reaching out to me, how have I   experienced people responding to me via text?   And so probably the main way has been via   email and Instagram.   Those were the kind   of two platforms which which we had available   for for people.   Now, if you go down to the show   note links, you can see there's like   six different things of five   Twitter, discord, Instagram,   Facebook, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.  

And what I would just say   is what I've experienced from   this is probably about   the signal to noise, as I was referencing in   the title for this increasing   the signal of text communication.   You can see,   I would say it's probably about 80% of it is spam   of just random stuff coming in to my inbox of   we can offer you this service,   we can, you know, SEO, we can   do you want to do a brand partnership?   Do you want to do this thing?   You know,   it's really funny because they always   start with like, Hey, Mia, as in because   most of the stuff has mere mortals written on it.  

So obviously the bots are just assuming Mairs   is the first name of whoever owns this account.   And well, obviously that's a, that's a pretty bad   signal to noise ratio.   If you get five things in four of them   the crap and then one of them is   a genuine person reaching out,   trying to tell you something or which   which is probably valuable or has the chance   of being valuable.   People can still say very invaluable things.   And this is, I suppose,   just a problem with blogging.   If you've ever gone   onto blogs over the years, you'll see   the amount of comments that are just bullshit   in the in the comments section down below.  

And YouTube comments are very similar   to this, where it's just it's   this cat and mouse game of bots   and getting increasingly better.   And then, you know, people put CAPTCHAs or the   all those, those links and things to try and   verify if this is a real human   being and then the bots   get better and all of this sort of thing.   So the   I suppose   like two of the big problems   I see once again, I'm not a blogger or an author   and or do much text based content creation   other than just, you know, show note links.   Is that one the payment options   that they're but   it's very similar to   to podcasting which is okay   it's just not the best you could   you could find better ways of doing this   and there are risks involved with   creating.  

Perhaps you're on Twitter, you know,   you're really good at Twitter,   you're good at short, snappy   things, you're applying all the time.   You enjoy the experience there.   You just get kicked off one day or Elon Musk   takes your name or whatever it is,   and it's just like, Shit, Well, that's   that's not the greatest thing.   Didn't have those four properties.   The big traits which I'll talk about   once again in a second.   So and then just receiving feedback, getting the,   you know, you creating the value,   that's kind of some problems with that   and then receiving it from your audience   once again.  

That can kind of be hard   and there's some problems with that. So.   All right, Karen, well, what are the solutions?   What are some   of the things   that you're saying   that could potentially make this better?   And so there's a couple a couple of things here.   And the traits the traits   I will tell you about the traits.   So they are the four big traits   that I mentioned   right at the start of this, which was   permissionless, decentralised,   self-sovereign and value for value.   So I think this is where   value for value once again,   I started off with those and talking about how the   these four properties I found across Bitcoin,   I found across audio   podcasting and I found across value for value.  

So these sort of things,   they're the kind of things I look out for   when I'm, when I talk   about value for value and so a couple of the,   the platforms or things where you can create   digital content in a text based way   and receive value back for what you're creating   and have some of these properties in them.   So here's a couple of suggestions.   There is Sphinx,   which is somewhat of a messaging app,   and this has a little bit of tie in with podcasting   because this was one of the ways is the   now is one of the ways where the whole   Bitcoin micropayments was   was first really being used in podcasting.  

It was this thing called Sphinx dot chat.   There's another one called Stuck in Use.   This is more of a form experience.   So imagine a Reddit type   experience of going on to there.   And another it's a   I suppose, a protocol called noster,   which has many different clients for more Twitter   style experience at this very moment.   So a couple of those login   things would be something like Amethyst or Dharma   or what's snort, dot, social, astral, dot ninja.   There's a few ways of   of connecting with these things   and they have varying degrees of,   of being permissionless.  

Noster is probably one of the better ones   for being decentralised.   For being permissionless.   They all somewhat use   a lightning wallet as a log in   and they have their own   mixture of, of solving the problems   I was talking about before.   So let's say you're on Twitter and you're   creating content and yeah, you know, what are   what are you receiving in return for that.   Well until recently   you weren't receiving anything.   You were getting a whole bunch of likes.   It's like, well,   okay, well, I can't can't feed my family on likes.   And so they've got these things called Zaps,   which are basically function   the same as a like button, but you get $0.10   every time someone does it.  

And you can say, okay, well, if   I what's the deal with that?   How's how's that going to help me?   Well, if you go on Twitter,   you can see   those people who get, you know, 40,000 likes as a   as in response to a tweet or an X or whatever   it's called now, you know, 40,000 times ten.   Okay, That's 400,000.   That's okay.   That's actually not a bad thing.   Well,   it'd be awesome   if if if I could get that on   on this other platform.   And once again, this   is kind of value for value because what you can do   is you can if you click it once it's ten,   if you click it twice, it's it's 100.  

If you triple click, it's a thousand.   So you can kind of see people have a way of   rapidly being able to give   value of of their choosing.   And this is where you can see, okay, all right.   There's there's a   there's a way for some people   to get paid for creating content.   And it's very much the same on on   stack and news people can zap them in.   It's a bit of annoying   because they use boost in a different way   than we do in the podcasting world.   But but that's that's a right   and sphinxes is very much similar.   It's sort of   using the Lightning   Network to be able to pay back and forth.  

And so all of these all of these sort of things,   you know, how   how big are these things, for example?   Well,   if you look on your   screen now or if you go on to the   podcast index social, where I put a little   a link   and I put up a graph, you can see on the screen   that you know   how many people actually using stuff   can use to support their favourite   content creators.   And the graph   there shows as of August or September of 2023,   it's about 200 and something 75   users who will support the favourite creators   on there.   This is   this is actually almost   identical to what podcasting is.  

If you go back to the previous episode   where I was talking about podcasting   2.0 statistics,   this was about the same   number of of daily users who are boosting in or   streaming micropayments to their favourite creator.   Okay,   So there's, there's obviously   some people doing it   and it's somewhat equivalent   to podcasting once again, those who lean into it   and and go hard into telling people   they can boost in   or do these things this way they will receive more   more that's why that way   and and will get get more benefits from that.   So yeah there's a   I'm just imagining in the future   I don't think it's hard to   imagine variations of this where it could be   you know you can have increasing   complexity of numerology   so instead of it   just being multiples of ten,   you can put in your own numbers   of having automatic leaderboard.  

So if someone supports you really heavily   at the end of the month,   a tweet goes out or a post goes out, which is   these are the people who supported me   the most,   highlighting them,   you know, giving them the recognition,   which is what all of this value for value stuff is.   A lot of it's about it's about connecting.   It's about thanking people.   It's about   acknowledging people for the value that they   you give them and that they   give you back in return.   Now, perhaps you could have things where it's a   a paid per paragraph thing.   So if you create a post,   people are reading down   your web browser automatically   realises, okay, you've gotten to this point   and you paragraph starting,   you know, here's 100 stats for for that.  

And so it's based once again   sort of like the micropayment   version of audio which is getting paid per minute.   Perhaps you can get paid per paragraph.   You know, these are   these are   all different options and ways of doing things.   There's,   I suppose, a caveat to all of these things that I'm   just talking about here is   it can get   easy to get confused about value for value.   And I suppose that earning aspect and being able   to give it back on   because there's quite   a few applications where you can already earn   and spend at the same time.   So the Bitcoin magazine app, for example   there, I believe you can earn   Bitcoin for, for reading it from it   and you can   also send it back to the author of that.  

So there's quite a few apps   and there's a whole other sorts of social media   and stuff like this where it's all about   you can earn and then spend at the same time.   So creating that circular economy,   a lot of this   a techniques for gamifying and growing a user base   and I'm not exactly sure if   most of those sort of things I've   heard they're not great of   how would I describe it   of of creating an ecosystem   which is truly, truly valuable, truly unique.   You know, if you're doing these sorts of things,   basically the value at the end point   does need to come from   so that, you know, the value for me   creating this audio is I'm doing   all the audio stuff,   I'm creating this and I'm putting it out   in return.  

In the   grand scheme of things,   the listener would probably need to be   or you know, my producer, if you want to call them   that, or my supporter,   they need to be   getting external money   and putting it into the system   and then sending it on to me, the circular economy.   I mean, look, it can kind of work both ways, but   all of this is just to say   tax based communication.   There's I think there's there's opportunities   for this to to be enhanced and to be made better.   And I was saying some of the comments here   in our discord where one was asking,   you know, what about on Twitter,   when people would get lots of use,   they get paid off the back of Twitter out   of the advertising profit, which is   kind of based around, you know, they're garnering   a lot of people to their posts.  

Those posts have advertising next to it.   So the more views in turn,   they get more money on this.   I'll talk about this more in a little bit   in the   in the tips section, so I'll   get on to that shortly.   I also see be very   coming in here and just talking about,   you know, the permissioned   permissionless state of the Internet is awesome.   And he's got a bit of a Bill Hicks   quote there on YouTube, which I will not play   at this very moment.   So all of this just to say   the text   based world, I think there are   I think there is a need   once again for value, for value   and and once again, for the TIPS   section, I'll talk about another misconception   which one and I had recently   and it's just right for the opportunity for   another way of connecting with creators and   interacting with them more deeply,   getting around these   kind of spam problems, and then also just having   an alternative.  

If you are the type of person who potentially   could get kicked off an awesome platform.   And I think that is actually for everyone   because I think if you just stay around   long enough, you'll say something   which is cancel or cancel label   worthy or something like that.   So let's   wrap that little bow up there.   More of that to come after that   Boostagram lounge section.   But yeah, let's let's get into   the Boostagram Lounge.   Welcome to the value for value   Boostagram Lounge.   So amazing week of support   with the Boosta gram lounge.   Really want to thank just stop it here I,   I feel like I've   I have been putting a lot of effort   into the value for value show   particularly over these last couple of weeks   months and really focusing on   on creating something   that's more valuable you know with the   how to use for example and just researching   more deeply, being a bit more prepared.  

And I think it's showing off.   So yeah, just   really want to thank you everyone right now   start the Boosta Gram lounge.   This is a way   where you can support the show directly   by sending me a message within your podcasting app   of choice.   Or you can also use a go to the podcast index   dot org and find the value for value show there   and boost in with a wallet like Alby for example.   And you can also go to Miyamoto's podcast dot   com and there's a couple of ways   where you can help support via those links.   So I could solve some shenanigans.   There's some absolute shenanigans   going on with the boost agram Lounge this week.  

I'm just going to do it in order of recency.   So we're going to start at the very top here.   We've got bearded tech coming in with Fountain   with 5000 sets.   Thank you very much. My friend.   And it says Building on the Golden Dragons boost.   So this is from last week   you can find out more on matrix at   and then he's got a link   here to the Matrix blood blog index dot Zazie.   I'll put a link for that in the show notes.   We're building an API from the ground   up to support boosts and blogs.   The potential   is there to use it for more than just blogs,   but for open source development.  

Music donations for Uncle Carl Surgery,   surgery, surgery,   basically anything you can imagine.   And then another link here   to the GitHub dot com slash blog index   is where you can find the code and soon   blog index, dot x, y, z, Viva la revolucion   and I will be talking more about that shortly   in my a section on the app and service highlights.   So we'll just pass over to that for the moment   about very, very much appreciate it. Thank you.   Bit of tech   we've got Nick   this is the co-creator co-founder of Fountain   and he says another great episode   excited about where the new ecosystem   is headed.  

I'm interested to know where you're getting   the data on feed with value blocks from.   I'd like to post this on the fountain socials.   So I sent him a link to that.   It was in the show notes as well for   for those who want to look there.   And that was the griddle cakes dot com   link.   So just check out their shenanigan time.   We have pot fans payment Samsung five   pot fans payment   and that was   3333 from Nick thank you very much Nick   we've just got these   huge amount of things coming in from pod fans   and just with a   little playing around what I discovered   is these are streaming   payments that he's sending in,   but they're somehow being recognised   as boostagrams, at least with the   the kind of set up that I have   using Satoshis stream   and linking that to my discord.  

So I'm just going to have to scroll down here   this others.   I don't know how many there is.   If I can mole up,   it's maybe not hundreds,   maybe like 50 or something.   But he did send a couple of messages in here.   He said, Apple and Spotify bring zero value to me   and this is in quotes, Calm down,   Love that sentence.   That was actually Adam Carr.   That was me quoting him. So   I can't take credit for that.   But I do somewhat echo   the sentiment,   especially the Spotify bit,   and I'm not a big fan of Spotify.   Another one here, Kevin Kelly 1000 true   fans is the OG post that led to B for V.  

Yeah, very true.   That's a great blog post if you've never read it.   A thousand true fans.   If you just type that in to Google by Kevin Kelly,   that's that's a really great one there   We've got another okay back into your regular   sketch to boostagrams   we've got the Golden Dragon coming in so boost   exciting that it has been growing for sure.   On the voice of the blog stuff   bearded tech as akin to Dave Jones.   As he knows, the code side.   And I just get the news out there and chat it up.   Glad to hear that the last was so warming to you.   Keep up the great work 100% using fountain.  

Thank you very much.   My friend will also be talking about him shortly.   Got Adam Curry here 1999   once again using fountain 10,000 stats.   Great episode, an outstanding   use of chapter off of the graphs.   Yes, yes.   This is what I love to hear.   I love to experience the   the recognition of the chapter arc.   That's something of a since I've discovered it,   I've been like, Man, this is so cool.   I love this stuff.   So I really appreciate it when people   use the chapter.   I know not everyone does   because obviously podcasting is   is really good to be able to just use on your   on your phone   while you're running or doing whatever it is.  

But yeah, I definitely love it   when people check out the the chapter.   So if you do see that. Yeah, please, please   give me   give me some credit for it because I love it.   Okay.   We've got a couple more here and Rob   Bola absolute bowl here from Chris laughs.   This is Chris Fisher from Jupiter Broadcasting   and he says, All right, I'll send 6006   63,333 I've no idea what that numerology is,   but I love it.   Thoughts on the pressure V for V   can add to content creation.   Overall, that's a good thing,   but I'm always trying as hard as I can to create   valuable enough content that does deserve support.  

That's a high bar than sponsor funded   content has to reach for the sponsors rally.   Listen to the show.   It is a good thing, especially for listeners,   but it is also a bit stressful thoughts.   I really like this break the stats breakdown   and he sent that using pod verse.   Thank you very much.   So yeah, look crystal I can say for myself is   is the   for me personally I   haven't had to experience this   because my my approach has always   been the consistency like I'm going to be here   week in, week out no matter what.   So it   is kind of irrelevant to me   how much support I get week in and week out.  

So that's that's kind of a big one. There.   That's that hasn't been   the biggest incentive for me.   I can see and I know you were   talking about   this recently   when I was I was thinking of   doing more shows, for example,   or splitting the shows up so that,   you know,   taking the conversations out of the models or   doing the fitness podcast that one's been doing me   and Models in Motion,   which are much smaller episodes, and   we've been putting them in the in the feed   off of that one, even though it's kind of   different, you know, his it's a solo episode of him   for 10 minutes in comparison   to most of our episodes, which are an hour long   between the two of us   or the two hour   long episodes that I do when   I want to have a guest on.  

So it's a very different in that respect   and, you know, breaking that apart, it's   another feed you've got to imagine, manage another   list of supporters   that you've got to thank and be on top of.   Look,   Yeah, it's it's a tough one.   It's a tough one.   I think there is a pressure.   But look, there's   going to be pressure no matter what.   Right.   If Chris has talked to numerous times   about how value for value   is so much less stressful than the sponsor stuff,   because he doesn't have to do meetings.   He doesn't have to call in and check   that they're still okay, that they're still good.  

He doesn't have to   worry about,   I suppose, is anything he's going to say.   Accidentally talk about a different product   that they're in competition with or,   you know, all of these sorts of things.   Make sure the host rate is right   because they do want   they will want to see   some metrics that you're actually   the sponsorship is working, that   the ads are working.   I think it's just a different type of stress   and very much like how   the Kevin Kelly a thousand true fans.   I've listened to quite a few episodes with him   talking about that.   And one of the things he says is   you have to recognise   it's a lot of work you have to do   if you want to do   the kind of   thousand true fans   root of value for value and and   connecting with your audience   this way   you have to be the type of person   who's good at that, who enjoys doing that,   and the certain people who aren't,   the certain people   who just want to create the music   they that's all they want to do.  

They want to spend their   12 hours per day that they have   available or whatever it is   in the minutia of,   you know, making this sound right,   of connecting with this artist,   of doing this audio production of   of focusing highly on that one specific thing   that they're really good at.   And then all of the other stuff related to   connecting with fans,   responding to your fan mail of   building a community, of going out to in-person   events,   of meeting your dedicated true fans,   they don't want to do that.   And this is where you you go, okay,   value for value is not for everyone, you know.  

And doing the listener supported   method is not for everyone and there is a pressure.   It can be stressful   and if if it isn't working for you,   like please don't do it.   What I think is is handy   is that value for value is a good add on.   And if you're interested in a lot of the things   that I was talking about in regards to platforming   de-platforming of, of some of the risk   that are associated with that,   it's better to to kind of   like go the full width route,   which is very much what I'm doing.   But yeah, once again   that's a long winded way of just saying   value for value is not for everyone   and you've got to   take those stresses and just recognise, okay,   it might not be exactly what you're thinking   and easiest as you're doing.  

Look, let's get back to our regular donation   segment of Sam.   Seth, are you sending in a million messages?   Great show, Kyrin. This is another test.   All of these coming from pod fans   sent using POD fans,   really small ones that say,   Thank you very much, Sam, for that.   I do appreciate that.   And then finally, a couple of live ones   here from Barry,   who I know is listening and is in the chat room.   And the chat at the moment   BE very has been very helpful   and I have included the boost bot   in the in the splits for this. So   that is one of the things when I get a full proper   IAC chat, running up will be a kind of little   cool thing.  

But yeah, there's   just so many things I need to to work on.   So it's,   it's on my to do list.   But if you want to chat in the live episode,   coming to the Discord is Good   or leaving a message on the   the podcast index on the official   post that I do there and he since 17,776   and says we're using Substack   as a newsletter slash show note aggregator.   I have seen that it's the Zozo.   It's Connor. Yeah, he leaves a link. Awesome.   I like it well enough, but ultimately   we will go self-hosted.   I would love to see a Stubbs Tech   Substack like front end for each episode,   but when you click into   the references it takes you to wiki.  

Ideally it allow you to make notations link   related material, a real scholarly   endeavour of sorts like the Noah agenda.   Show notes had a wiki,   which they kind of do in some ways like   no agendas so big and they've had   so many people creating stuff on it.   It kind of does feel like a wiki.   I was using it recently going through   all of these old episodes just to learn more   about value for value its origin on their show.   And it was really funny.   Some of the things   they were talking about, like John   C Dvorak was on episode 28 at the 130 mark.   He was doubting that people will pay   150 men like that absolutely got blown   out of the water.  

So and they were asking for like $2 a donation   that they're at the very start   and the kind   of like first 100 episodes which is rather amusing   considering where they are now.   But yeah, if you go into that   that show notes,   it is a very like it's all connected   in this weird, wonderful way.   So I really know what you're talking about.   And if you're wondering why bribery would,   would need something like this,   you really need   to check out his podcast behind the schemes it is.   They've got so much stuff going on there   and like tarot card readings they've got,   you know,   play by plays of of them playing video games,   but they make it a video podcast,   but it's not really a video podcast   because they're using GIFs as the chapter as   is crazy. So   and he's   sends it another boost 8888 and I'm huge   advocate for show notes as a whole   bring the receipts people   and then he's got those those corner so that is   probably saying that is O so   s corner dot Substack Gqom   and then season one episode 169   So yeah, he's got a yeah, yeah.  

The behind   this games is a podcast   everyone needs to experience at least once.   That's all I can say is crazy.   So yeah, awesome.   I'm going to   going to leave it there   and get on to the app and service highlights.   So sorry my tips section.   So on a recent value for value episode that one   and I did, it revealed a bit of misconception.   The misconception   that I talked about in episode   47, the top one, which was,   you know,   it's V for video dive,   if it's V for V or all or nothing.   And it's look, I get trapped into this   because I'm so excited about it.   I've got the value   for Value podcast obviously and I, I,   I just see why it's so powerful   for, for myself personally.  

But that's just me.   And I suppose part of me is an idealist,   but there is room for everything.   So one in the in the chat before just mentioning.   Okay, but how is this different from X   and being able to to monetise on their   as a, as a content creator which is a   relatively recent innovation.   I think they've only done that   in the last month or two.   And so this is where I would say, you know,   there's room for everything.   One of the people who is very much   into value for value and who has boosted in   tremendously to this show and to my other shows,   Colin McCormick from America.  

Plus he has dived in headlong into the   trying to to I suppose, gain a following   on X and monetising using that platform and   I'm interested I'm   watching him and look it's certainly   I see him more on there when I am on there.   So he's obviously doing some things which   the algorithm lacks for me   and and is showing more of his stuff.   Once again, I think it's a long term strategy.   It's it's just risky.   It's just risky.   You know,   you create a massive following on that platform   and then five years later, the platform goes away.   You know,   you can shift over your audience   to a certain extent,   but what if you're   not as good on Instagram as you are on on Twitter?  

I x what if   what if you just get suddenly cancelled   and you're   you're relying on this to feed your family   and then suddenly it's just gone   because these platforms they are   and buy individual   people like you on doesn't want you on there   he's allowed to take you off.   It's his thing   you know he bet he paid   billions of dollars to get that.   So you get the right to do that.   So all of this is just to   say, you know, please experiment   with all of these things, try out other mediums.   And there are tons of   tons of other ways where you can,   through text based   digital content creation, receive   money or connection with your audience.  

I still think   the best way of doing it is when there is a   a payment attached to it, and at the moment   it makes sense the most for me   through something like Bitcoin   because it is digital money.   You can do things with it that you can't do   with the with with fiat.   And that's   there's just,   you know, there's just risks   to all of these platforms.   The PayPal's, the patron, just buy me a coffee,   you can get kicked off all of them.   Is that I'll, I'll leave it there for the moment.   So but yeah it was just   there's a slight misconception   I'm guilty of perpetuating it,   that it's V for V all die, all or nothing.  

That's not the only way that you can do it.   But there is there's other   there's other options out there.   And so, yeah,   you know, go see what Cole's doing on   America Plus and we'll see   we'll see how it goes over the over the years.   Let's jump to my app and service   highlight and the Golden Dragon.   He did a great job of being a mouthpiece.   So this was somewhat what spurred this episode.   I was wanting to look at Noster and   and stuck in use and talk about the more in depth   I have tried out lost a couple of times.   It personally hasn't worked for me   just the the tech related to it.  

I struggle   to get messages. I was struggling   to connect with things easily.   I probably tried two or three times   and I've just gone like,   Oh, I don't want to deal with this.   It's it's too much pain. Still.   Ju I can't deal with it myself personally.   Stuck in news once again I mentioned   I just don't really consume digital content,   so I'm not, I'm   not going to use that   platform   because I   don't go on forums and if I do on the look,   I'm never posting stuff.   So what, what, what are the   the cool things he did   was just talking to me about what   this guy could be the tech   who boosted right at the top   and he gave us a whole bunch of links. Then.  

And essentially he's trying to set up   a kind of multi thing.   One is a blogging version of the podcast index.   So with podcasting 2.0,   you needed the index first to allow   you needed to have the decentralised piece first.   So to allow apps to   connect to all of these podcasts,   all of these new name spaces, once again,   I think it's one in five podcasts have declared   the new namespace.   They have a tag in the feed,   which is just mind blowing. That's so, so cool.   And it's, I think, the   fifth highest namespace out there.   With regards to RSS and things like this.  

So super, super cool.   So obviously gaining adoption and   with blogging, it's kind of like   maybe the same sort of thing is needed.   And so   is trying to set up   like a podcast index type thing.   And then the other   aspect of that would be the version   of Sovereign feeds dot com, which is where   you can kind of create your podcast RSS feed   and it's just a way of you doing it   without having to go into the, the Mark-Up text,   whatever it is yourself   and individually write it out.   It's got a nice user interface   you put in the title, the chapter,   the splits that you want,   the links to, the value time   splits, do all of these different things.  

It'll create a feed for you   and then you can copy and paste that into.   This is the real self-hosted approach.   By the way, people, this is the, the,   the for   the innovators, for the for the people   who really want to dive into these things.   And so basically he just wants to create   those two type thing.   So if I have a blog,   you know,   Khan at WordPress dot com, whatever it is   and I can submit it to the his blog index.   So one we now know,   okay, this is a value for value blog.   You can support this blog with the value for value   boosting and, and payments and things like this   and I can   manipulate my splits and you can see how   this would work   of having guest writers appearing on your blog.  

That's a very common thing to do.   You know,   they now have a way where they can get paid   for doing that rather than paid   through on the exposure.   It's like, Hey, no, please come on the blog.   And, you know, if my listeners really   enjoy your stuff, you'll get some money for that.   Other contributors, once again,   you know, is   the photographer who is creating really   cool stuff for the blog.   Is he getting paid directly?   Well, you know, who knows?   Maybe, maybe yes, maybe no.   Once again, solves   all those problems with regards to,   you know, having the money of who's get it,   who's getting the money in.  

You've got to trust this person   to send it off to the right place.   And there's a bit of   lack of transparency and things like this.   And, you know,   maybe people really enjoy   the photos more than the blog itself.   So I don't know.   There's all sorts of ways you can look at that.   So once again, I would probably say   the best place to do that is just to go to his   blog itself and you'll see on the screen   a little introduction piece   because he has not yet set up the blog index dot   X, Y, Z.   So that that's just a a kind of   just a front page at the moment   doesn't have anything else on it.  

So I'm a yeah,   who knows what will happen with that.   I really hope he is able to do that.   That'd be really cool.   And then another one which I have   somewhat used before is is   MASH actually talked with one of the guys   who I suppose he was the sales guy for it.   It's a it's a free service and that you can   easily copy some code into your own website   and you will then have the ability for people   to, to use micropayments to boost in and does   they've got   all sorts of functionalities   where you can have like a vote type thing you can   and people   can choose to vote and pay that way   or they can just send in a boost.  

They can send in all of these sorts of things.   I honestly just have not   got around   to experimenting with it on my website   and I believe they just ask for a split.   So once again, a service   they created a call   integration service, an app, a thing that   that works.   And yeah, that's, that's just a way of doing that.   So yeah that's, that's kind of cool.   And yeah,   hopefully that   will take off and that's just another way   where you can experiment with that and yes, see,   see how you go with that.   So those two little things there, if you're,   if you've got a blog yourself   and you're looking to,   to be able to do these sorts of things,   please try out those and you might might have   some success with that.  

So I've lost a whole bunch of links there.   There was the stack   of news that was Noster, the Sphinx, that was MASH.   If you've got a blog for yourself   and there's all sorts of other things out there   which I think are attempting   to get at value for value.   I think a lot of them aren't   quite haven't   got quite the right mix,   but I think there's a hunger for it.   It's not it's   not just in the audio world   where people are sick of spam, of crappy messages   or comments not having value.   It solves a lot of problems by   kind of integrating these   these sort of things all together.  

And so finally, value for value.   Who am I going to give 15% to this week?   Well, I really like what better text   do I think that's a cool way of him,   of him   trying to integrate,   to do something new, to innovate, to help out   bloggers and, you know, help out himself, perhaps   it's one of those things where I think he wants it.   And so it's like, well, stuff it.   I'll build it myself, kind of like   what Boubakary does on behind this game.   So it's like, I want this thing.   I'll, I'll put   in like a proposal to the GitHub. I'll   be one of the first people to integrate it.  

I'll use the value time splits, I'll,   I'll self-hosted, I'll do all of these things.   So it's really cool.   So yeah, 15% is going to go to him for this week.   So thank you very much, my friend.   And just finally, value for value,   time, talent and treasure time.   I'd just ask that you share this.   That's probably the most valuable   thing for me at the moment.   I'd love more people to hear about this.   I think there's a couple   of great tools out there, so value for value info.   If you are more of a reader type person   and Gigi has a great   couple of blog posts on that. So   I and if you type in value for value and Google,   yeah, he's got a thing   called digi icons value.  

That's that's got a pretty good   little explanation there and he's got some links on   more more things on on how you can do that   And so yeah sharing this with someone   talent if you have an insight   into blogging or the author world   or know   someone who speaks coherently   about these things, about the problems,   yeah, please let me know.   I'm always looking for resources of things   that I can listen to that that people   talk about these problems.   There's there's   so much gems out there in the Internet,   which I just haven't come across yet because,   you know,   I haven't typed in the search thing   or I haven't been told about it   by someone else who has found this sort of thing.  

So I would really   appreciate that if you if you have any of these   sort of handy   resources of people who you think   really know and can talk about these things   more in-depth,   I would love to to gain access to those.   And then finally,   the treasure a somewhat talked about this   the best one, please   try out a new podcast app and do everything I can   to make it a better experience for you.   There's chapter images,   transcripts, there's links   to all of the things I'm talking about.   You can send in the micropayments, you can get more   a connection.  

Like if you go   into Fountain, for example,   you can connect with   other people and it's a   there's all sorts of things   you can do that which, which I think   make it worth   switching over from something   like Spotify or from Apple or from   any of the other ones.   You can listen in   live in a lot of these apps as well,   and you'll get a notification about that.   There's all sorts of cool things, so try that out.   If you don't want to try out a new app.   I understand it's   like like with Napster, sometimes   things don't work, you know, sometimes   fountain crashes, sometimes whatever.  

So go into the podcast index website,   type in value for the number four   and or just type in my name, Kyrin.   And the show will pop up   and you can boost directly from there using Alby   or you can do   directly at me at Coronet get Albi dot com,   which is another way I prefer it   if you did it via the other mechanisms   because then the splits go to the correct place.   But if you just want the easy easy option,   can't get Albee dot.com as a is the way that   you can do that.   So yeah, there's a couple of different options   hopefully in the website the mere mortals   podcast dot com.  

Well we'll have some more of these   integration type things, but   yeah, at the moment I'm just doing what I can   so I will make do with what we have there.   So there's been   another fun episode   I really have enjoyed and appreciated One   and be very coming into the chat once again.   If you   are free on a Wednesday 10 a.m.   Australian Eastern Standard Time,   which is the equivalent of UTC zero midnight   on that Tuesday Wednesday border.   Now please come, come join me.   I would love to   have some interactions with you in the chat.   It's very, very fun.  

And yep, they for value it's going to it's   going to take off.   It won't take over the world,   but I'll take over part portions of the world.   I think so. We'll leave it there.   Thank you   everyone for joining in   and until the next episode, Jeff now current out.