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What does the music industry have to teach us about giving music out for free? In Ep#59 we're going to learn from Prince, Radiohead & 50 Cent about how to adapt to change & delay monetary gratification.

Huge thanks to Deezlaughs, Chad F & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). You all make this show happen!

40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.

Extra Links:
Radiohead Interview: https://youtu.be/V-4CpJyZ4Yw
Thunderroad Media: https://thunderroad.media/live-is-lit/

Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:19) - Why Make It Free?
(3:22) - Quote 1
(8:37) - Why Pay If It's Free?
(9:54) - Quote 2
(12:10) - In Rainbows' Radiohead Interview
(16:07) - Why Does It Seem Scary?
(18:18) - Quote 3
(21:56) - Why Is The Money In Merch & Touring?
(27:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(32:54) - Latest Developments
(37:50) - Why Bitcoin
(40:47) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(43:13) - Freedom by Vale Ramirez


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Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Vale Ramirez: https://valeramirez.com/

[00:00:00] Unknown:

What does the musicindustry have to teach us   about giving away musicfor free?   Welcome, welcome, welcome.   Welcome everyone   to another episode of theValue for Value Podcast   broadcasting live hereon the 18th of March 2024.   This is the podcast   for Digital Contentcreators   who want to connect deeper   with their audience,perhaps   look at some differentways of monetising.   Although you might bewondering like monetising   and you're talking about   giving away stufffor free,   how does that work?   Well, we'regoing to dive into that   in this episode today.  

So we'regoing to be learning   from the bookFree by Chris Anderson.   I have previously donea book review of this   on the main   models, book reviews,   if you wanted to dive intothe full book of that.   But we're going to befocusing in particular   from about pages   153 to 161, and we've gotsome juicy quotes   from from Cole coming upto help explain that.   So what we're going tolearn in particular   is a marketing slashgrowth tactic,   if you want to put itthat way.   Some counterintuitivebehaviour   that you'll see   from your audienceand your friends,   and alsohow to face the feel, the.  

Feel. Of free.   So let's just jump   right into thisand why make it free?   Why should you makeyour music free?   If you are a musician,   you're putting stuff outthere.   Doesn'tthat that sounds weird.   Why would you do that?   Now this is linkeddirectly to the next point   that I'm going to make,   which is opposing it,   coming at itfrom the fan side   of thingsand why they would pay.   But we'll start here.   We'll start from the   creative side first,because this is the,   you know,   the Value for Valuepodcast,   mostly directed at peoplewho are   trying to understandif you're a creator,   why you would do this.  

You've got to do thisfirst,   and then you can get the   value backfrom your audience.   Now, the reason to offer   your creation for freeis that wide   interest in your product   will ultimately ultimatelyallow you to   to make more money offof it.   Or perhaps even freedom   is the better wayto to categorise this. And   then once you havefreedom, you can choose to   make moneyhowever you want.   You know,   essentially,once you get to   a high enough levelas a musician   and I'm goingto be focusing   just on musicians today,but these   these apply broadly toother types of creators.   But we'll focus onthe musician niche.  

You can dowhatever the hell you want   once, onceyou've got freedom, once   you've got enough money,it's like now   you just get to choosewhat you choose to create,   how you go about doing it,and trying   to find the most exciting,interesting ways.   And you might be thinking,okay, well, I'm not the   you know,I'm not Kanye, I'm not ye   I'm not at this   the high enough levelwhere I can just do   whatever the hellyou want.   Well,   I think a lot of the valuefor value   concepts will allow you   to get to that levelif you want.   If you're aimingfor stardom,   if you're aimingfor things like this.  

And it's essentiallythe acknowledgement,   I think   if you're givingsomething away for free   that you could makea small gain.   Now if you were tojust keep it locked in   and like,here's a price on it,   I want to create this   and I want some immediategratification from that.   But it's going to reallystunt your growth.   Or you can have,   you know, none of the   upfront payments,but you have   much larger in the future.   Once you have grown, once   you can do whateverthe hell you want.   So we're goingto start off   with a quote from page 155here of the book.   And we're going to learnhow Prince did something   a little bitcounterintuitive of   not only just giving his   his music away for free,but actually paying   to give it away.  

So Cole will take us awayhere.   How can a music CDB free?   In July 2007,Prince debuted his new   album Planet Earthby stuffing a copy   retail value $19   into 2.8 millionissues of the Sunday   edition of London'sDaily Mail.   The paperoften includes a CD,   but this wasthe first time   it featured all newmaterial from a star.   How can a platinum artistgive away a new release?   And how could a newspaper   distribute itfor Free of charge?   Prince spurred ticketsales.   Strictly speaking,   the artistlost money on the deal.   He charged the Daily Mail   a licensing fee of $0.36   a disc ratherthan his customary $2.  

But he more than made up   the difference in ticketsales.   The purple one sold out21 shows at London's O2   Arena in August,bringing him   record concertrevenue for the region.   The Daily Mail boostedits brand.   The freebie bumped upthe newspaper's   circulation 20% that day.   That broughtin extra revenue,   but not enough to coverexpenses.   Still, Daily Mail execsconsider the giveaway   a success.   Managing editor Stephen   Miron says the gimmickworked   editoriallyand financially.   Because we're pioneers,advertisers want   to be with us.   Carl will love that.  

That'sexactly how I imagined,   thoughit would sound as well.   So it's interestingto note with this   this kind of explanation,with this deal   that happened, thatneither party   actually made moneyout of this   in terms of the strictfinancial dealings   between Prince giving awaya CD to the well,   you know, selling his CD,I guess, to this   newspaperand then the newspaper   actually distributing it.   Neither of them actuallymade money from it,   but they both had thesekind of like intangible   tick,you know, branding slash,   you know, prints,   selling more ticketsat the O2 Arena   that that   they enabled this toto be a financial venture.  

If you look at the   broad scale of things,and I think that's   one of the problems with   musicalmusicians perhaps the   you know, the focusto tightly narrow on this   like one little thingof I've,   you know,I've got to try and   do thisand I'll be successful.   Whereas it's   it's, it's the broaderthings, you know,   travelling aroundthe world   might not help your music   in this one   particularinstance of like,   I'm not actually   creating music,but I can give you   exposure to all sortsof experiences,   sounds, thingswhich will enable you   to create better stufflater on.  

And I think this sort ofthing is happening here   and I'm going to caveatthis,   that this all requires ayou know,   I feel like it's a rathertiny leap of faith   because measuring secondor third or other effects   of what they've done here   is going to be very,very hot.   You know,how how we hear that   he sold more tickets,but how much did   he actually morewould he have sold   or not have soldif he hadn't done this?   So, you know, we're doingsome kind of like,   you know, counterfactuals.   If this had not happened,what would have happened?   That sort of deal?  

But I think in these cases   and I've got a coupleof more examples of this,   which is layering on thisthis kind of, I guess,   evidence arguments of whyyou should maybe do this.   And I think by gainingmore exposure at the,   you know,   cost of some smallpotential profits   he could have madefrom the   the the advertisersfrom the actual Daily Mail   itself, Prince   made a huge windfallwith the concert.   And perhaps he had bigger,bigger revenues   then in comparisonto selling suit.   Who knows? Who knows?   But this is why I advocatefor similar reasons   for podcasts as well, that   sticking your contentbehind a paywall   where it's impossibleto get to without paying   all being exclusive,   for example,on somewhere like,   you know,   Spotifywas trying to do this   and we've seen recently   all these podcasterswho are exclusive, they're   jump ship and wantedto be everywhere   because you're stuntinggrowth.  

You'rereally hurting yourself   by narrowing your niche   to likeyou can only get it here   or you have to pay for ithere.   And the only timesI've really seen   this work is for   really large creators   who already have a verywell-established audience,   and I don't even thinkthey do it   for monetary reasons,   to be honest,I'm pretty sure they pay   well theircontent and put things   behindbehind stuff like that.   Not becauseit pays the most,   but for other reasons,   such as   wanting to limit their   their messageto a certain set of people   or to not have,   you know, feedbackfrom X number of people,   which I know for a factis what happens with a   content creatorI followed called Andre   Antonopoulos, a   Bitcoin guy   who's a Bitcoin educator   who's been doing it   for like ten years,   and he is exclusive onPatreon pretty much for   all of his stuffbecause he just doesn't   want to dealwith all of the,   the random noisethat he gets.  

So this is why we see,okay, this is maybe   why should   give it away for freefrom the creative side,   but then let's go onto the next point,   which is, well,why pay if it's free?   And if we see creators are   willing to work for free?   And we'vedefinitely established   that in the last episode,why would fans pay   if they can get itfor free?   And I was   actually having a chatwith a lovely young lady   named Hannah,   who was she's doinglike an article on on   one of the placeswhere you can listen   to thisvery podcast on true fans.   You can listen to it livethere or post at Post Hoc   and she's doing thisarticle and she was   doing on on micropayments   and in particularon true fans.  

And one of her questionswas was basically   piggyback of this   if you're   giving away this stufffor free,   why would people payfor it?   And I think this ismy answer to   this was somethingthat we learnt last week.   People do thingsfor credit status,   reputation, enjoyment,satisfaction   and experience.   Paying away   paying can be a way to getto all of these things,   expedite the processin getting   to some of these things.   And I think that's a very,very strong reason why   people will pay for stuff.   And now you'd be like,okay, car   And that's nice andhypothetical, but give me   give me an example,give me something real.  

So, well,we're going to get as real   as we can get here   with this   next quote from page 253   and we'll see some peoplewho who did it.   Well.   If the video gameindustries of business   racing towards freeto accelerate its growth,   music is a businessstumbling   to freeto slow its decline.   But the early experimentsare encouraging.   By nowthe success of Radiohead's   name your own price   experiment with InRainbows is legendary.   Rather than release itsseventh album into stores.   As usual,   the band released itonline   with the requestthat you pay   as much or as littleas you wanted.  

Some chose to pay nothing,including me,   not because I didn't think   it was worth something,but because I wanted to   see if that was in factallowed.   While otherspaid more than $20.   Overall,the average price was $6.   So, yeah,this is what we see.   Okay.   And this is theclassic view.   If you heard about thisbefore In Rainbows   by Radiohead   was essentially they gaveaway their music free.   They put it upon a website,   you could just goaccess it.   And I'd heard about thisfor ages.   If you're in the valueto value world,   you would have heardof this example.   And what's reallyinteresting about this is   if pure upfront monetarygain was the play,   they wouldn'thave actually done this.  

They wouldn't have givenaway their music for free,   was they,you know, overall   the average price was $6.   I'm pretty sureback in those days,   you know, paying for afor an album of   something waswas much more than that.   And so telling ontoI was like I'd   heard about thisso many times   and I wasextremely intrigued   as to what actually   went into thisbecause it's it's   kind of like toosimplistic in a way.   You know, when you hear   people will bring upan example of something   and you're like, Yeah,yeah, okay, but is that?   And then you learnlater on like,   no, the real   the real lessonto be learned from   this is not whatit appears on the surface.  

And if you look into theStanford Prison experiment   or the Milgram shockexperiments, for example,   this is where you alwayshear like,   it just showcaseshow bad humanity is.   But if you look into the   actual studiesthemselves, the science,   what actuallywent on there,   it was cherry picked data.   It was, you know,they were going for to   to prove out this thing   rather than doinga scientific experiment.   We won't get into that.   But essentially this waswhere I was like, okay,   I've heard of this   In Rainbows   thing by Radiohead too,so many times.   What's actuallygoing on here?  

So I found this interview   and it's called Tom and Ed   talk about In Rainbowsrelease and it's just,   you know, it was   someone who found a randomI think it's BBC baby   C or R2,it's some sort of English   station, TV station.   And this interviewwas really illuminating.   It's onlyhe's about 7 minutes long,   but definitely worthchecking out.   And we'll have thatlink down below   and you'll learn a coupleof things from this.   So one,they were very careful   about their wordingon their website,   so they actually really   explained the valuefor value   philosophybefore it was even,   you know,called value for value.  

Then it was pay.   What you wantis another expression,   which is kind ofinterchangeable with this.   And they were veryexplicit like, Hey,   this is we're doing thisthis way.   This is the reasonswe're doing for it.   We would very muchappreciate it.   We would you know,there's it's   not an expectation   you can get this for freeif you want.   And as the authorand we found of that   quote there, ChrisAnderson he he did it   and he just wanted to test   it out if he could do it.   They didthis very specifically.   So they're   very careful aboutthey asked that pitch.   We know how much importantthat is.  

They were very careful.   They cut out middlemen,for example,   and could releasedirectly to the fans   without meetingsand without promos.   It was hilarious   watching this clip   and then them   just talking about howmuch they detest meetings.   And it's like, yes,thank you.   Thank you.   So the   the actual interviewitself   would have been publishedrelatively   recently after the releaseof the actual album.   Not that I'll have to goback and check that.   I'm just responding to a   a comment here   in the in the YouTubechat at the moment.   Another thing wasthey didn't have to wait 3   to 6 monthsto actually release it.  

They could do itas soon as it was done.   And I'm sureif you're a musician,   you know, you've createdyour work of art,   you've created this piece,and then   and thenyou just have to wait   because you need approvalby this place.   You need the,   you know, marketing budgetto get approves   this to be done,this to be done.   And that would talk abouthow they would   finishthe album, you know,   do all the editing   lost you know   sampleschopped everything's good   this is exactly howwe want it.   And then six months,   you're just sitting on it   and just go like twiddlingtheir thumbs like,   And so they said, No,this is   why we could release itstraight away.  

And the benefitof releasing it   straight away was   they didn't have to worryabout the inevitability   of it getting leaked.   And so by releasing itlike this,   they could actuallycontrol   the distribution mechanism   because these thingsalways get leaked.   Once you've createdsomething,   it gets leaked outsomehow.   And so they released it   for the not to be greedy,but for the spirit   of music.   And funnily enough,you know,   for the spirit of musicand doing things   this way actually ends up   resulting inmore of a monetary gain.   Because   if you read the book,the next page talks   about how the album wasthe most successful,   how it did so well.  

This could be,   you know, adjacentto the actual pay,   what you want   for the philosophy, but   it certainly didn't hurtwhat happened.   So all of this is veryv v esque and if   if you go to the paywhat you want   article on on Wikipedia,   it also shows how   it's known as the valuefor money model.   And it goes   links to a blog posttalking about no agenda.   So pay what you wantvalue for value.   They're very similar.   And once again,   another example of sayinghow, okay, something's   being given away for freeand you know,   you would expectself-interest.   People would just,you know, pay zero   if you can get itfor free.  

Why wouldwhy would you not do that?   But now we see, you know,   they actually got,you know, $6 on average,   which is pretty,pretty bold   and pretty amazingconsidering   it was one of the first   first times that they didthis.   Now, I think   it's worth talking aboutwhy this seems so scary.   And I just mentionedWikipedia there.   And as a as I mentioned,   I was doinga bit of research   on this album itself.   And if you go intothe Wikipedia   page of this album,   it talks about theirresponse to what they did   for this Paywhat you Want released   and they've kind of   got two sections,the first sections   talking about how peoplewere praising it.  

You know, Bono was saying   is courageous,imaginative.   Courtney Love was saying,you know, the kamikaze   pilot of me wants to dothe same thing.   I'm grateful rainbowsRadiohead for   for making the first moveand doing this.   And then we see the other   side of it,which was the criticism.   And this isreally interesting   because a lot ofthis is really fear based.   So we've got some quotesfrom Lily Allen saying   the release was arrogant   and sent a bad messageto less or   less successful acts   saying you don't choosehow to pay for eggs.   Why should it be differentfor music?  

Sonic Youth bassistKim Gordon said   it seemed really communitycommunity orientated,   but it was wasn't catered   towards the musician,brothers and sisters   who don't sellas many records   as Radiohead   makes everyone else   look bad by not offeringthem music for whatever.   And then The Guardianjournalist Will Hodgkinson   arguedthat Radiohead had made it   impossible for lesssuccessful musicians   to make a livingfrom their music.   And I think this is worthaddressing.   Like, why does this seemso scary to other people?   You know, it'snot it's not Radiohead   who were or theiror their fans   who were criticisingwhat they did.  

It's just these like other   relatively well-knownmusicians as well.   And it'sbecause they have this   zero sum mentalityof like it's it's all   the criticisms themselveswere all about money   as well.   You noticethat, you notice how the   it was all about the moneyand it wasn't the,   the spirit of the music,of releasing of, of   giving it directlyto fans to have this,   you know,direct interaction,   of being able   to be in controlof your own music   and doing whatyou want with it.   None of it was addressedtowards that.   It was all aboutthis money side of things.   And I think theywere afraid of change.  

And having to adaptis the is probably the,   the main argumentI would be saying there.   And we're going to learnfrom,   from someone as well.   And page157 teaches us about this.   So we're going to have   another couple of quoteshere.   What'sparticularly interesting   is that   the same pragmatismabout the need   for the   industry to embrace   new models is shared   even by the biggestwinners of the Old way.   Interviewed in 2008about the impact of file   sharing on his label,G Unit records,   the rap artist 50 Centhad the advantage   of perspectiveof also being an artist.   Sure, file tradingwas hurting his label,   but there was a larger warto be won.  

The advances in technologyimpact everyone   and we all must adapt.   What is important   for the music industryto understand   is that this reallydoesn't hurt the artists.   A young fan   may be just as devoutand dedicated   no matter if he bought itor stole it.   The concerts are crowdedand the industry   must understandthat they have to manage   all the 360 degreesaround an artist.   They, the industry,   have to maximisetheir income   from concertsand merchandise.   Yeah, I think this   teaches a couple of things   on both sidesof the equation.   Thank you Mr.  

50 Cent for for that quote   and for Colefor writing it out.   So the problem isthe radio guys,   Radiohead guys mentioned   is that'll get leakedone way or the other.   And you know,this was particularly   I supposeprevalent in 2008.   I'm not sure how   with, with file sharingand things like that.   I'm not surehow much it is nowadays.   My fingeron the pulse of the   of the music sceneis, is not super strong.   But I thinkbeing proactive,   getting ahead of thesethings is necessary.   Adaptingto change to technology   and free might scare you,   but ultimatelyyou have to work with it.  

And a lot of thisnext season   we're goingto be looking at   particularly,you know, the book,   The Inevitable   by Kevin Kelly,which I covered   a little bit last week.   Some of this stuff isinevitable.   You know, file sharingcould not be stopped.   The distributionof of music   at a super, super lowcost is happening.   You know,there's a small vinyl,   you know, resurgent.   But we're not going backto the days of CDs.   We're not going back   to the days of vinylbeing everywhere.   It is digital.   It is going to be ondemand   streamingand things like this.   And I think as a musician,you have to acknowledge   that it's not worthfighting it.  

It's not worth trying to,   you know, lambaste peoplefor for getting the music   however they want it.   As 50 Cent mentioned the   a young fanjust because he's he stole   it doesn't mean that   he doesn't love the music   or that he hates the   musicianor anything like that.   He could be justas dedicated and devout   no matter if he bought itor stole it.   That was a quote.   And I and once again,with the value for value   model, we can find waysto use this dedication   and and devout fansfollowings   if we are a bit creative,if we think more about   how we can actually goabout doing this   word of mouth,you know, campaigns,   just because they don'thave money doesn't mean   they don'thave things to contribute.  

So this is where it   whereI definitely think that   the arguments for freeis essentially the   you need to do itbecause it's   going to happenno matter what.   If you try and fight the   technology andthings that allow things   to be distributedlike this, it's   ultimately goingto be a failing venture.   And so it's worth thinking   about how you can   get the message across   that even if you don't pay   in a monetary form,you can actually get paid   in other ways   or you can get valuein other ways from your   from your audience.   Now, this will   ultimately gets usonto the last point   I wanted totalk about here, which is   the money   is in merchant touring,so why is the money there?  

And much of the pagesin between   the quotes of this bookwas really focussed   on analysing the declinein the record industry,   but overall growthin the music industry.   And you're like, okay,   well aren'tthey the same thing?   Record industry, musicindustry?   No, the record industrywas solely concerned   about the distributionof music,   whereas the music industryis obviously it's   just about musicas a whole.   Is music getting outand getting played   and we said yes, it was.   Is getting played in TVshows and movies.   It was working its wayinto more   and more genres,areas of the world,   you know,elevator music, gyms,   shopping malls,all this sort of stuff.  

You know, there's musicbeing played everywhere   all the time, basically.   And now look at,   you know,TikTok and Instagram   and all these placeswhere you can just click   a button, you can puta song into it.   Okay, it's everywhere.   Now, the thing is,   how have musiciansmaking money?   Well, when this transitionwas happening,   all of it was basicallybeing like   because the CDS saleswere declining   because vinyl   and those sorts of thingswere declining,   you know, cassette tapes,all that sort of stuff.   The musicians were having   to do itthrough touring and,   and through much,which is,   you know,   to two ways   where once again, it's   kind of like   a physical product almost,you know,   I would have to physicallygo out to a venue   or I would geta, a physical shirt   or something like this   and I believethat this was probably   the waythat had to be done.  

And that made sensefor musicians to   to monetise their workin some sort of way,   consideringthat they couldn't do it   through the recordindustry, couldn't   do it anymore,it wasn't making sense.   The technologyhad moved on and changed.   File sharing hadbasically destroyed that   and so they had to do itthrough the   through touringand through much.   I am arguing thatI think the case is now   that with micropaymentsbecoming a viable option,   that this is allowinga new way,   it won't completelydominate,   you know, these othertwo mechanisms.   But I think   that micropayments, it'sworth having a look at   and thinking aboutif you're a musician,   because there arecertainly many people who   don't want   or can't consumethe physical things.  

And so let's take me,for example.   I don't particularly enjoylive music and concerts.   I've been to a couple, butit's not a regular part   of my living and livinglifestyle, I guess.   And the last one   I went to wasprobably in 2019, 2018,   maybewhen I was in Mexico,   I went to a big concertthere.   That was the last timeI've been to one.   I don't particularlyenjoy them.   I'm rather minimalist,   so I actually don't enjoybuying merch.   A lot of times   by desperation.   I have sometimes bought tshirts to support people.   Other podcasters,for example,   sending money to the UKvia the banking system.  

So awful. I hated it.   I wished I wishedmy friends at that time   had accepted bitcoinbecause that would   have been so much easier.   But it's but I also liketo support artists.   I like to do these things.   So let's take one of my   favourite musiciansin a for example.   Now you know.   Yeah.   Create some amazing music.   I, I, I rememberbeing a kid and hearing   some of her musicand loving it   and she was alsoreally hot   and I had a crush on herand probably still do.   And you know, she's oneof my favourite musicians.   Even if I wantedto see her   live the last timeshe was in Australia,   I was looking this up,I believe was in 2018.  

So it's like, okay, well,   you know,it's been a while   since I could havesupported her in that way.   I went on to ourwebsite just the other day   and her shop was down,   so if I wanted tobuy merch,   I couldn't have even doneit like that.   There's no donate buttonthere.   And I was   struggling to think like,okay, how can I   how could I get some moneyto her?   And I'm guessingthat there is a way   of still buying musicsomehow, maybe through,   I don't know, iTunes orAmazon music or something.   I don't have iTunespersonally,   I don't haveAmazon music personally,   so I would have to go   really out of my wayto to do these things.  

But man, if she was Vfor V enabled,   if she had her music upas an RSS feed,   she and with with youknow, wallet splits   and a way for me to domicropayments to her,   she would make   bank bank of meI would be sending her   all of my money   because I would   be just   listening to itall the time   and boosting and streaming   and all thesesorts of things.   So this is where I wasgoing to just say like,   if you're a musician,   giving it away for free,I think it's a is a good   is a good way of thinkingabout this, doing this   of putting your music uponline.   It's up online everywhere.  

You know, peopleare accessing it for free.   Now, if you want to thinkof it through Spotify,   it's a very convolutedmechanism.   I'm sure Spotifystill pays out,   but it's, you know,   we're getting there'sincreasing steps moving.   The technology is movingus further   and further towards   like everythingbeing available   If you are creatingcontent online.   And I just argue,you know, if you   if you haven't   thoughtabout micropayments   and you haven't thought   about getting directsupport   from your audience, it'sworth doing that.   I argue the best way to doit is through the   the triangle of RSS,v2 V and BTC,   as we've saw pretty muchin the last season.  

But you know, it's worthjust looking elsewhere   if you're a musician   and havingto think about that.   So that is my argumentfor today.   Free, free.   Let's jump onto the   gremlinsand I really want to thank   some peoplefor helping support   this show from last week.   So Mr.   Adam Curry,please take it away.   Welcome to the value   for value histogram.   Yes. Sothe booster gremlins   for those who don't knowis where I think   the peoplewho help support this show   and in particularin the monetary aspect.   We'll talk a little bit   more about how   you can supportin a non-monetary aspect   at the end.  

And this is by doinga boost to ground   which you can senddirectly   through one of a newmodern podcasting app.   There'sall sorts of reasons   outside of the valuetransfer you can do.   I go live   so you could be listeningto this live   the on on onone of those apps.   I put chapter images there   so that you can haveinteresting things   and you'll see stufflike spends   bitcoin gifts, whichI put in there to help   brighten upmake it more interesting.   You canget transcripts in their   notificationsas soon as the   podcast goes outin this release,   all these sorts of things.So good reason   to check outsome of these apps.  

If you gave me a modest   podcast dotcom search support,   you'll see a listthere of where   you can actually goand find these apps.   I've done a run   through all of thesesorts of things   and you can send a messagedirectly with an app.   That message will reach me   and this is just a classicexample   of how these micropaymentswork.   You can stream inand you can also do it   via sending in   what is known as a boost,   which is just a one timepayment or booster.   Graham Same thing,   but you have a messageattached with that.   So I'm going to readsome of these out here   and I'm just going to dothem in sequential order   because it will lead upto the big the big one.  

So we had these laughscoming in with a thousand   sets sent using fountain.   He says Good show.   Would loveto make your end of show   tracks one day fire. Hey,thank you, mate.   Thank you.   I am very muchin this moment of   I've got my structurefor this season,   but I will hit you upfor next season   because that sounds likea really fun way of   being able to collaborateand do something   interesting andand change it up.   So, yes,more and more on that in   I'll also like   six months   time, I'll get back toyou. That's probably   what I'll be doingthe next season.   We have a message herefrom Chad   and he says, Hugeshout out to what   Barry is doingfor live concerts.  

I did mentionthis last week.   If you enjoyedVoice of Music   and want to help it   grow, please considerdonating some sets   sets of upto Thunder Road.   And then he's got a   a clapping emoji 3333 setssent using fountain.   Thank you very much,my friend.   And the link there isThunder road dot media   and then forward slashlive of what is that   the it's not colonthe square   hyphen livehyphen is hyphen lit.   I'm going to have the link   to that in the show notes.   I've also included themas a 5% split   to this very podcastin this very episode.   So yeah, I really lovewhat what Barry is doing   for the live musicof creating these concerts   where you can essentially   do what I'm talking about.  

This is, this is whatwe're talking about.   The musicians are doingthis concert for free.   You could jump into   the live streamat any point and   just watch the whole thing   without having to paya single cent   or you can jump inand contribute.   So show some support likeI will be doing as well   unless I'mflying in mid-flight   to Brazil,which is possible,   I will be doing that and   it's just areally exciting avenue of   of I think   the future of music,of things are changing.   I did see a lot of streamscoming in here from Sam,   Sam Sethi,the founder of True Fans.   And then check this out.  

Sam Sethi 100,000 sets.   Cent using true fans,   although a Bola bolaI don't have any of the   sound effects,but thank you very much.   So my God, thanks.   And he says,thank you so much   for your kind wordsand support.   Building an appat the bleeding   edge of tech is superhard, often rewarding,   but sometimesvery frustrating.   And once again that.   So if you're wonderinghow much So I'm   talking micropaymentsand you're like,   they're sendingthese stats.   What are theserandom things?   The equivalent of thatat current   prices is about 105 AUD.   So, Sam, thank you.  

Thank you very much.   You know, you've paid myhosting for a half a year.   A year? I don't know.   Thank youso much for doing that.   May I really doappreciate that   and I highly recommendpeople check out true fans   because it's   it's one of these placeswhere   an app progressive web app   so can be used on yourdesktop, on your iPhone,   whateverphone you're on Android   and it's got allof these functionalities.   He has everythingin there.   It's a it's a sweet app.   I'm going to berecommending it more   because he's he's really   creating somethinginteresting there.   And like I said,I did a little interview   for someone   who was alsovery interested in it   and writingan article on it.  

So I will also link thatwhen it comes out.   Chat offices in the chat.   That's me.   Thank you, Chad,very much.   Appreciate for joining usin here as well.   So let's jump on to,I suppose, some current   developments, latestdevelopments.   Things are interesting.   Like I said, Thunder RoadMedia at get al Bitcoin.   If you wanted to helpsupport that, live   things that are going on,   it really gives methe same vibes   as what was going onwith Able Craft   when Iwas tuning into that show   like two years ago   where it was just,you know,   so Spencerand this guy Abel Kirby,   and they were creating   basically the first music,the first album   specifically to be ableto release it in a value   for value format.  

And that was Abeland The Wolf.   I will be playingone of their songs   in the near future,and I think this is just   it's a pillar   in what's going to besomething   that is really, really bigand be for the music.   That's why I'mtalking about it today.   I thinkit's really interesting.   Now, this is slightly offtopic from music,   but it's it's very muchon the same trend of   someone who was doingsomething digital   and having to adapt with   the times change,   make their money through   not exactlythe way they wanted to   and then find exactly   their niche   and how they could do itdirectly   through through their artand through their music.  

And so there'sthis guy called Beeple.   If you haven't heard   of people before, he'sbasically   an artist and particularlydigital art.   He'll do some 3D renderingand things like this.   But mostly   it would be what you wouldimagine is a JPEG image.   And he's been doing thisfor a long, long time.   I listenedto this interview with him   and he was, you know,   creating the stuffand he was like,   okay, well,   I've put it on YouTubevideos,   but it wasn't reallygetting much traction.   I was trying to direct   people to my website, butyou know, that was hard.   And then he realised like,   well,   I can justput this on Facebook   and I'm just gonnaput my art there.  

There was no wayto pay for it.   There was no monetaryreason. He was doing this.   He was giving it awayfor free.   What this led to wasa lot of people   becoming very interestedin what he was creating   and it ended up   turning outthat he would get   How would he makemoney from his art?   Well,   he would actually getthese opportunities   to work on and create forthe Super Bowl halftime   Justin Bieber concerts.   You know, the   the backgroundimages behind him   when he's on the big TV   screensand things like this   and and allof these sorts of things.   So he's indirectlymaking his his money   through the AC oneand the testing.  

Michael Joseph Winkelmann,   professionallyknown as Beeple,   American digital artist,   graphicdesigner and animator   and this is the part knownfor selling Nfts.   You know, like an NFT iswhat the hell is up?   NFT standsfor Non-Fungible token   and basically meansthat he could sell his art   directly on the blockchainwhen the time was right.   So he was creating   all of this stuff,giving it away for free.   He somehow made   found a wayto make money from it,   but it was through thisvery indirect method of,   you know,getting paid for,   getting renownedand then paid for his art,   but for other people's   installationsand things like this.  

It's kind of similar to,   you know, musicianscreating all this music   and then only getting paidwhen they're doing   concerts and sellingmerch. Interesting.   And then he found this wayof when when   Ethereum was coming upand he realised,   you can actually   put your art   as a, as a digital imageon the blockchain.   And it's like aone of one thing   and it's,it's stored there   and there's a way tomake it digitally scarce   that, okay,   he could now sell itdirectly to his fans   and his fansreally liked his stuff   and he ended up sellingthis piece   known as Everydays,which was a collage,   a collaboration of   of everythingthat he'd created for like   once a day, for yearsand years and years,   maybe a decade. I'mnot sure how long.  

And he ended upselling this one thing   for like, you know, 63million or something.   So Headlines. Amazing.   I think the lessonto take away from   this is delayedgratification.   You know,he created his stuff.   He put it out therefor free.   He found a way to like,grind and make money   through alternativemethods before he found   a way to connect directlywith his audience and   and be able to,   you know, not only make   money from them,but connect   directly with them.   So this is an interesting   aspectof where you can see   a digital artist has donesomething similar.   Now, obviously with music   you can maybe do NFTor things like this.  

I wouldn'tparticularly recommend it.   I've lookedat a lot of this stuff   for the pastcouple of years   and I still I think thatthe way forward is through   the the mechanisms.   I talked about   RSS because it'sself-sovereign,   it's decentralised,it's permissionless,   and you can do valuetransfer through that   and then through valuefor value   and Bitcoinon top of that.   So I think the main thing   to take away fromhim is definitely just   putting your, yourart out there for free.   Grow growing,creating a brand,   connectingwith your audience   will lead to opportunityis further down the line.  

And then this gets into my   final section here,which funnily enough,   why Bitcoin? Why?   Why would you you know,   I just talked about ittheorem and Nfts. But why?   Why would I say thatIt's, it's   worth focusing on Bitcoin.   And I say Mr.   Robot in the chat,   except that anyone cancopy and paste any of it.   NFT is, it's a scam,   you know,   the same argumentcould be made for putting   music up in an RSS feed.   Anyone can copy itand and put it up.   We're not seeingthat behaviour here   and I think it'sultimately it's,   it's, it'skind of about this   delayed gratification.  

And so, you know,   what is the ultimatedelayed gratification?   It's saving your moneyand this is where I   very much goingto stay away   from the financial advice   and I view BTC as the bestway to do that.   If you're new,   you're going to hear about   this thing called Hodling,which is holding on for   dear life, the acronymif you want.   Or basically   a guy got drunk andspelled holding wrong and   which is ultimatelyjust forgoing a quick win   now for something betterlater.   Once again,delayed gratification of   is what I'm arguingthat musicians should do.   Certainly what I'm doingwith putting   all of this stuffout for free.  

I could be advertisingright now.   I choose not tobecause I think   ultimately in the end,   giving it awayfor free is better.   And I will get   I will get more laterin the end and I will feel   better about doing it.   So this is just one of   those oneswhere it's like,   I also just want tocaution   people are selling houses   to buy this stuffand I wouldn't   particularly recommendthat.   And I knowsomeone who is doing this   and I've known someonethree years ago,   four years agodoing the same thing.   It ultimately givesyou more options   and thereforemore freedom.  

I think justjust be very careful.   Don't take itto the extremes,   because if you'relistening to this   for the first timeand you're like,   streaming micropayments,   Bitcoin,you can get caught up   in the investingside of things.   I think that's interestingand worth looking at.   I also just wantto advertise caution   and that if you're lookingat these things   through the micropaymentlens,   we're using it as money.   So it's not really   you shouldn't be thinking   of itas like an investment.   It should be looking at   as more of an incomeor things like this.   So, you know, Samsonite   in $100, I don't view thatas a as like X amount.  

And Bitcoin is like, okay,   he sent me that muchthrough,   throughbitcoin and insights   and I do appreciate it,but I'm not going to hold   that particular thingfor the long, long term.   I prefer to use thatto help support   other people like Burberry   is doingand things like this.   So, you know,just don't do it.   Take it to the extremes,be be careful.   You know   what, makes itvaluable is the the peer   to peer transactions.   And so you'll alsoperhaps hear   never part of the Bitcoinand things like that.   But I think it's worth   supporting your favourite   artists and and helpingpeople like that.  

So let's go onto the last section here.   I've got time,talent and treasure.   This is howyou can support the show.   So what I wouldreally love is   if you could share thiswith a digital creator.   Also come join me livelike one has, like Mr.   Robot has likeChad has like   coal has all very muchappreciated.   I love saying these   the comments downdown on the YouTube video.   You can also just listen   in live   on any of the podcastingapps which support it   which in particularare found in podcast   guru pod verse true fanszero cost   and not full cost money.   Yeah those oneswill do us for now.  

You can also comewith some talent.   So is there anythingI can do   to make this better?What annoys you?   What resourcesare similar to this?   If those bookrecommendations   similar to this,which you think highlights   how the digital worldis changing   and this is changingthe way that, you know,   content creators,particularly digital ones,   interactwith their audience.   And if you have any book   similar to the inevitableby Kevin Kelly or three   by Chris Anderson,please send them my way.   I would love to knowthese.   And we also sawfrom DS Lofts last week,   you know,   if you want to helpcollaborate as well,   I'm downfor it and yeah I'm   we'll see if I can fit youinto for this season but   definitely for the future.  

I'm looking foropportunities   to do something like that   and then try to threeoptions, do it through a   new podcasting app.   I just listedquite a few and do it   through directlythe podcast index website.   One of the thingswith true fans   I should mention, as soon   soon they will have   the ability toto top up your wallet with   with ApplePay or Google Pay,   which will be very,very much   a niceonboarding mechanism   because it is kind of hardto get Bitcoin   is SatoshisI get it, I get it.   It's confusing.   And so that just just know   all of thisis getting easier   and it's becomingmore mainstream.  

So the check out that   there's also a PayPallink down below   one and I have agreedthat this will just send   this directlyto developers   working on thingsand like Sam   who's like you mentioned,it's it's a hard gig.   It's not it's not easy.   And so I very muchappreciate it.   If you want to help mehelp support the show,   all of the splitsI've got going,   5% is going to developersand you know, another 30   or 40%is going to call seven and   the downfallsfor helping provide music.   And speaking of music,speaking of music,   we're coming to   our last section here,which is we're   going to be talking about   we'll playing a song,in fact.  

And you know, this this   this episode has beenfocussed on freedom free.   And the songwe actually have today   is, is Freedomby Valley Ramirez.   And she actuallyreminds me   of one of my favouriteartists who is an inner   voice, is very,   very, very similar.So I was like,   I have to play itfor this one.   I actually got to give a   shout out to ColeMcCormick through America.   Plus this is howI found her,   because she playedone of her songs there and   it's really interestingseeing how artists are   creating andfinding ways to not only,   you know, talk about and   create the art themselves,but express   it showcasewhy they were doing it.  

She's actually   got a podcastabout her songs,   which is really,really cool.   So I and I speak Spanishrelatively well so   and can understand it.So I went into it.   And so this song isabout risking everything.   And I and I think this isa perfect timing   for this episode.   You know,   it's worthtaking that risk, worth   taking that gamble,   putting your music outfor free.   For her,   the riskingeverything was leaving   Colombiafor the first time,   leaving her comfort zoneand trying something new.   And, you know, this is whythis song is just a one.   It's it's a great song.I love it.  

But I think it's also   fits in nicelywith this theme.   So this is Valle Ramirez,I believe her Colorado co   artist is Dave.   And in general, whichmeans Dave, the engineer.   And she'sgoing to take us away.   And thank you very muchfor joining me   live, 10 a.m.   Australian EasternStandard   Time on a Thursdayis where I am   sorry, on a monday.   That's that's a bookreview is when to go live   on a Thursday.   And I really hopeyou join me for next week.   Please send in a boost.   And if you send in a boostnow, you're going   to be helpingsupport Valley.   So here we go.  

MotherOmalu, Omalu, Omalu.   Are you.   Watching   that? I   want a damn black.   Cause I.   Think that the fight onozone was kind.   Of anger and misled us   and did a littlethat did them with.   Football again.   On Shut You know, SS three   four SS   At Boston College,   where I see them,you seen them in   the AFL   battlewith Gary Salo three   He thought this   and w they complained   And Sullivan   astronomy professor   Douglas Sally, Mr.   McKillop saidthey know and.   He hasn't.   Done the opposite of that   all I knowbut I'm supporter   that they'll be offered.   Hockey cigars and I'dbe able to see a guest.  

Appearing peeling.   You'll be at MelodyLove here at a red   light and   seen in recitals   and I've never ended upon this LSD.   Recital Wonderful time.   I still love you slightly,   Dr. Santelli.   What? I mean   is certainly strong.   So then   I must   say no,   I have.