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What does the music industry have to teach us about giving music out for free? In Ep#59 we're going to learn from Prince, Radiohead & 50 Cent about how to adapt to change & delay monetary gratification.

Huge thanks to Deezlaughs, Chad F & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). You all make this show happen!

40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.

Extra Links:
Radiohead Interview: https://youtu.be/V-4CpJyZ4Yw
Thunderroad Media: https://thunderroad.media/live-is-lit/

Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:19) - Why Make It Free?
(3:22) - Quote 1
(8:37) - Why Pay If It's Free?
(9:54) - Quote 2
(12:10) - In Rainbows' Radiohead Interview
(16:07) - Why Does It Seem Scary?
(18:18) - Quote 3
(21:56) - Why Is The Money In Merch & Touring?
(27:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(32:54) - Latest Developments
(37:50) - Why Bitcoin
(40:47) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(43:13) - Freedom by Vale Ramirez


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Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Vale Ramirez: https://valeramirez.com/

[00:00:00] Unknown:

What does the music industry have to teach us   about giving away music for free?   Welcome, welcome, welcome.   Welcome everyone   to another episode of the Value for Value Podcast   broadcasting live here on the 18th of March 2024.   This is the podcast   for Digital Content creators   who want to connect deeper   with their audience, perhaps   look at some different ways of monetising.   Although you might be wondering like monetising   and you're talking about   giving away stuff for free,   how does that work?   Well, we're going to dive into that   in this episode today.  

So we're going to be learning   from the book Free by Chris Anderson.   I have previously done a book review of this   on the main   models, book reviews,   if you wanted to dive into the full book of that.   But we're going to be focusing in particular   from about pages   153 to 161, and we've got some juicy quotes   from from Cole coming up to help explain that.   So what we're going to learn in particular   is a marketing slash growth tactic,   if you want to put it that way.   Some counterintuitive behaviour   that you'll see   from your audience and your friends,   and also how to face the feel, the.  

Feel. Of free.   So let's just jump   right into this and why make it free?   Why should you make your music free?   If you are a musician,   you're putting stuff out there.   Doesn't that that sounds weird.   Why would you do that?   Now this is linked directly to the next point   that I'm going to make,   which is opposing it,   coming at it from the fan side   of things and why they would pay.   But we'll start here.   We'll start from the   creative side first, because this is the,   you know,   the Value for Value podcast,   mostly directed at people who are   trying to understand if you're a creator,   why you would do this.  

You've got to do this first,   and then you can get the   value back from your audience.   Now, the reason to offer   your creation for free is that wide   interest in your product   will ultimately ultimately allow you to   to make more money off of it.   Or perhaps even freedom   is the better way to to categorise this. And   then once you have freedom, you can choose to   make money however you want.   You know,   essentially, once you get to   a high enough level as a musician   and I'm going to be focusing   just on musicians today, but these   these apply broadly to other types of creators.  

But we'll focus on the musician niche.   You can do whatever the hell you want   once, once you've got freedom, once   you've got enough money, it's like now   you just get to choose what you choose to create,   how you go about doing it, and trying   to find the most exciting, interesting ways.   And you might be thinking, okay, well, I'm not the   you know, I'm not Kanye, I'm not ye   I'm not at this   the high enough level where I can just do   whatever the hell you want.   Well,   I think a lot of the value for value   concepts will allow you   to get to that level if you want.  

If you're aiming for stardom,   if you're aiming for things like this.   And it's essentially the acknowledgement,   I think   if you're giving something away for free   that you could make a small gain.   Now if you were to just keep it locked in   and like, here's a price on it,   I want to create this   and I want some immediate gratification from that.   But it's going to really stunt your growth.   Or you can have,   you know, none of the   upfront payments, but you have   much larger in the future.   Once you have grown, once   you can do whatever the hell you want.   So we're going to start off   with a quote from page 155 here of the book.  

And we're going to learn how Prince did something   a little bit counterintuitive of   not only just giving his   his music away for free, but actually paying   to give it away.   So Cole will take us away here.   How can a music CDB free?   In July 2007, Prince debuted his new   album Planet Earth by stuffing a copy   retail value $19   into 2.8 million issues of the Sunday   edition of London's Daily Mail.   The paper often includes a CD,   but this was the first time   it featured all new material from a star.   How can a platinum artist give away a new release?   And how could a newspaper   distribute it for Free of charge?  

Prince spurred ticket sales.   Strictly speaking,   the artist lost money on the deal.   He charged the Daily Mail   a licensing fee of $0.36   a disc rather than his customary $2.   But he more than made up   the difference in ticket sales.   The purple one sold out 21 shows at London's O2   Arena in August, bringing him   record concert revenue for the region.   The Daily Mail boosted its brand.   The freebie bumped up the newspaper's   circulation 20% that day.   That brought in extra revenue,   but not enough to cover expenses.   Still, Daily Mail execs consider the giveaway   a success.  

Managing editor Stephen   Miron says the gimmick worked   editorially and financially.   Because we're pioneers, advertisers want   to be with us.   Carl will love that.   That's exactly how I imagined,   though it would sound as well.   So it's interesting to note with this   this kind of explanation, with this deal   that happened, that neither party   actually made money out of this   in terms of the strict financial dealings   between Prince giving away a CD to the well,   you know, selling his CD, I guess, to this   newspaper and then the newspaper   actually distributing it.  

Neither of them actually made money from it,   but they both had these kind of like intangible   tick, you know, branding slash,   you know, prints,   selling more tickets at the O2 Arena   that that   they enabled this to to be a financial venture.   If you look at the   broad scale of things, and I think that's   one of the problems with   musical musicians perhaps the   you know, the focus to tightly narrow on this   like one little thing of I've,   you know, I've got to try and   do this and I'll be successful.   Whereas it's   it's, it's the broader things, you know,   travelling around the world   might not help your music   in this one   particular instance of like,   I'm not actually   creating music, but I can give you   exposure to all sorts of experiences,   sounds, things which will enable you   to create better stuff later on.  

And I think this sort of thing is happening here   and I'm going to caveat this,   that this all requires a you know,   I feel like it's a rather tiny leap of faith   because measuring second or third or other effects   of what they've done here   is going to be very, very hot.   You know, how how we hear that   he sold more tickets, but how much did   he actually more would he have sold   or not have sold if he hadn't done this?   So, you know, we're doing some kind of like,   you know, counterfactuals.   If this had not happened, what would have happened?   That sort of deal?  

But I think in these cases   and I've got a couple of more examples of this,   which is layering on this this kind of, I guess,   evidence arguments of why you should maybe do this.   And I think by gaining more exposure at the,   you know,   cost of some small potential profits   he could have made from the   the the advertisers from the actual Daily Mail   itself, Prince   made a huge windfall with the concert.   And perhaps he had bigger, bigger revenues   then in comparison to selling suit.   Who knows? Who knows?   But this is why I advocate for similar reasons   for podcasts as well, that   sticking your content behind a paywall   where it's impossible to get to without paying   all being exclusive,   for example, on somewhere like,   you know,   Spotify was trying to do this   and we've seen recently   all these podcasters who are exclusive, they're   jump ship and wanted to be everywhere   because you're stunting growth.  

You're really hurting yourself   by narrowing your niche   to like you can only get it here   or you have to pay for it here.   And the only times I've really seen   this work is for   really large creators   who already have a very well-established audience,   and I don't even think they do it   for monetary reasons,   to be honest, I'm pretty sure they pay   well their content and put things   behind behind stuff like that.   Not because it pays the most,   but for other reasons,   such as   wanting to limit their   their message to a certain set of people   or to not have,   you know, feedback from X number of people,   which I know for a fact is what happens with a   content creator I followed called Andre   Antonopoulos, a   Bitcoin guy   who's a Bitcoin educator   who's been doing it   for like ten years,   and he is exclusive on Patreon pretty much for   all of his stuff because he just doesn't   want to deal with all of the,   the random noise that he gets.  

So this is why we see, okay, this is maybe   why should   give it away for free from the creative side,   but then let's go on to the next point,   which is, well, why pay if it's free?   And if we see creators are   willing to work for free?   And we've definitely established   that in the last episode, why would fans pay   if they can get it for free?   And I was   actually having a chat with a lovely young lady   named Hannah,   who was she's doing like an article on on   one of the places where you can listen   to this very podcast on true fans.   You can listen to it live there or post at Post Hoc   and she's doing this article and she was   doing on on micropayments   and in particular on true fans.  

And one of her questions was was basically   piggyback of this   if you're   giving away this stuff for free,   why would people pay for it?   And I think this is my answer to   this was something that we learnt last week.   People do things for credit status,   reputation, enjoyment, satisfaction   and experience.   Paying away   paying can be a way to get to all of these things,   expedite the process in getting   to some of these things.   And I think that's a very, very strong reason why   people will pay for stuff.   And now you'd be like, okay, car   And that's nice and hypothetical, but give me   give me an example, give me something real.  

So, well, we're going to get as real   as we can get here   with this   next quote from page 253   and we'll see some people who who did it.   Well.   If the video game industries of business   racing towards free to accelerate its growth,   music is a business stumbling   to free to slow its decline.   But the early experiments are encouraging.   By now the success of Radiohead's   name your own price   experiment with In Rainbows is legendary.   Rather than release its seventh album into stores.   As usual,   the band released it online   with the request that you pay   as much or as little as you wanted.  

Some chose to pay nothing, including me,   not because I didn't think   it was worth something, but because I wanted to   see if that was in fact allowed.   While others paid more than $20.   Overall, the average price was $6.   So, yeah, this is what we see.   Okay.   And this is the classic view.   If you heard about this before In Rainbows   by Radiohead   was essentially they gave away their music free.   They put it up on a website,   you could just go access it.   And I'd heard about this for ages.   If you're in the value to value world,   you would have heard of this example.  

And what's really interesting about this is   if pure upfront monetary gain was the play,   they wouldn't have actually done this.   They wouldn't have given away their music for free,   was they, you know, overall   the average price was $6.   I'm pretty sure back in those days,   you know, paying for a for an album of   something was was much more than that.   And so telling onto I was like I'd   heard about this so many times   and I was extremely intrigued   as to what actually   went into this because it's it's   kind of like too simplistic in a way.   You know, when you hear   people will bring up an example of something   and you're like, Yeah, yeah, okay, but is that?  

And then you learn later on like,   no, the real   the real lesson to be learned from   this is not what it appears on the surface.   And if you look into the Stanford Prison experiment   or the Milgram shock experiments, for example,   this is where you always hear like,   it just showcases how bad humanity is.   But if you look into the   actual studies themselves, the science,   what actually went on there,   it was cherry picked data.   It was, you know, they were going for to   to prove out this thing   rather than doing a scientific experiment.   We won't get into that.  

But essentially this was where I was like, okay,   I've heard of this   In Rainbows   thing by Radiohead too, so many times.   What's actually going on here?   So I found this interview   and it's called Tom and Ed   talk about In Rainbows release and it's just,   you know, it was   someone who found a random I think it's BBC baby   C or R2, it's some sort of English   station, TV station.   And this interview was really illuminating.   It's only he's about 7 minutes long,   but definitely worth checking out.   And we'll have that link down below   and you'll learn a couple of things from this.  

So one, they were very careful   about their wording on their website,   so they actually really   explained the value for value   philosophy before it was even,   you know, called value for value.   Then it was pay.   What you want is another expression,   which is kind of interchangeable with this.   And they were very explicit like, Hey,   this is we're doing this this way.   This is the reasons we're doing for it.   We would very much appreciate it.   We would you know, there's it's   not an expectation   you can get this for free if you want.   And as the author and we found of that   quote there, Chris Anderson he he did it   and he just wanted to test   it out if he could do it.  

They did this very specifically.   So they're   very careful about they asked that pitch.   We know how much important that is.   They were very careful.   They cut out middlemen, for example,   and could release directly to the fans   without meetings and without promos.   It was hilarious   watching this clip   and then them   just talking about how much they detest meetings.   And it's like, yes, thank you.   Thank you.   So the   the actual interview itself   would have been published relatively   recently after the release of the actual album.   Not that I'll have to go back and check that.  

I'm just responding to a   a comment here   in the in the YouTube chat at the moment.   Another thing was they didn't have to wait 3   to 6 months to actually release it.   They could do it as soon as it was done.   And I'm sure if you're a musician,   you know, you've created your work of art,   you've created this piece, and then   and then you just have to wait   because you need approval by this place.   You need the,   you know, marketing budget to get approves   this to be done, this to be done.   And that would talk about how they would   finish the album, you know,   do all the editing   lost you know   samples chopped everything's good   this is exactly how we want it.  

And then six months,   you're just sitting on it   and just go like twiddling their thumbs like,   And so they said, No, this is   why we could release it straight away.   And the benefit of releasing it   straight away was   they didn't have to worry about the inevitability   of it getting leaked.   And so by releasing it like this,   they could actually control   the distribution mechanism   because these things always get leaked.   Once you've created something,   it gets leaked out somehow.   And so they released it   for the not to be greedy, but for the spirit   of music.  

And funnily enough, you know,   for the spirit of music and doing things   this way actually ends up   resulting in more of a monetary gain.   Because   if you read the book, the next page talks   about how the album was the most successful,   how it did so well.   This could be,   you know, adjacent to the actual pay,   what you want   for the philosophy, but   it certainly didn't hurt what happened.   So all of this is very v v esque and if   if you go to the pay what you want   article on on Wikipedia,   it also shows how   it's known as the value for money model.   And it goes   links to a blog post talking about no agenda.  

So pay what you want value for value.   They're very similar.   And once again,   another example of saying how, okay, something's   being given away for free and you know,   you would expect self-interest.   People would just, you know, pay zero   if you can get it for free.   Why would why would you not do that?   But now we see, you know,   they actually got, you know, $6 on average,   which is pretty, pretty bold   and pretty amazing considering   it was one of the first   first times that they did this.   Now, I think   it's worth talking about why this seems so scary.   And I just mentioned Wikipedia there.  

And as a as I mentioned,   I was doing a bit of research   on this album itself.   And if you go into the Wikipedia   page of this album,   it talks about their response to what they did   for this Pay what you Want released   and they've kind of   got two sections, the first sections   talking about how people were praising it.   You know, Bono was saying   is courageous, imaginative.   Courtney Love was saying, you know, the kamikaze   pilot of me wants to do the same thing.   I'm grateful rainbows Radiohead for   for making the first move and doing this.   And then we see the other   side of it, which was the criticism.  

And this is really interesting   because a lot of this is really fear based.   So we've got some quotes from Lily Allen saying   the release was arrogant   and sent a bad message to less or   less successful acts   saying you don't choose how to pay for eggs.   Why should it be different for music?   Sonic Youth bassist Kim Gordon said   it seemed really community community orientated,   but it was wasn't catered   towards the musician, brothers and sisters   who don't sell as many records   as Radiohead   makes everyone else   look bad by not offering them music for whatever.   And then The Guardian journalist Will Hodgkinson   argued that Radiohead had made it   impossible for less successful musicians   to make a living from their music.  

And I think this is worth addressing.   Like, why does this seem so scary to other people?   You know, it's not it's not Radiohead   who were or their or their fans   who were criticising what they did.   It's just these like other   relatively well-known musicians as well.   And it's because they have this   zero sum mentality of like it's it's all   the criticisms themselves were all about money   as well.   You notice that, you notice how the   it was all about the money and it wasn't the,   the spirit of the music, of releasing of, of   giving it directly to fans to have this,   you know, direct interaction,   of being able   to be in control of your own music   and doing what you want with it.  

None of it was addressed towards that.   It was all about this money side of things.   And I think they were afraid of change.   And having to adapt is the is probably the,   the main argument I would be saying there.   And we're going to learn from,   from someone as well.   And page 157 teaches us about this.   So we're going to have   another couple of quotes here.   What's particularly interesting   is that   the same pragmatism about the need   for the   industry to embrace   new models is shared   even by the biggest winners of the Old way.   Interviewed in 2008 about the impact of file   sharing on his label, G Unit records,   the rap artist 50 Cent had the advantage   of perspective of also being an artist.  

Sure, file trading was hurting his label,   but there was a larger war to be won.   The advances in technology impact everyone   and we all must adapt.   What is important   for the music industry to understand   is that this really doesn't hurt the artists.   A young fan   may be just as devout and dedicated   no matter if he bought it or stole it.   The concerts are crowded and the industry   must understand that they have to manage   all the 360 degrees around an artist.   They, the industry,   have to maximise their income   from concerts and merchandise.   Yeah, I think this   teaches a couple of things   on both sides of the equation.  

Thank you Mr.   50 Cent for for that quote   and for Cole for writing it out.   So the problem is the radio guys,   Radiohead guys mentioned   is that'll get leaked one way or the other.   And you know, this was particularly   I suppose prevalent in 2008.   I'm not sure how   with, with file sharing and things like that.   I'm not sure how much it is nowadays.   My finger on the pulse of the   of the music scene is, is not super strong.   But I think being proactive,   getting ahead of these things is necessary.   Adapting to change to technology   and free might scare you,   but ultimately you have to work with it.  

And a lot of this next season   we're going to be looking at   particularly, you know, the book,   The Inevitable   by Kevin Kelly, which I covered   a little bit last week.   Some of this stuff is inevitable.   You know, file sharing could not be stopped.   The distribution of of music   at a super, super low cost is happening.   You know, there's a small vinyl,   you know, resurgent.   But we're not going back to the days of CDs.   We're not going back   to the days of vinyl being everywhere.   It is digital.   It is going to be on demand   streaming and things like this.   And I think as a musician, you have to acknowledge   that it's not worth fighting it.  

It's not worth trying to,   you know, lambaste people for for getting the music   however they want it.   As 50 Cent mentioned the   a young fan just because he's he stole   it doesn't mean that   he doesn't love the music   or that he hates the   musician or anything like that.   He could be just as dedicated and devout   no matter if he bought it or stole it.   That was a quote.   And I and once again, with the value for value   model, we can find ways to use this dedication   and and devout fans followings   if we are a bit creative, if we think more about   how we can actually go about doing this   word of mouth, you know, campaigns,   just because they don't have money doesn't mean   they don't have things to contribute.  

So this is where it   where I definitely think that   the arguments for free is essentially the   you need to do it because it's   going to happen no matter what.   If you try and fight the   technology and things that allow things   to be distributed like this, it's   ultimately going to be a failing venture.   And so it's worth thinking   about how you can   get the message across   that even if you don't pay   in a monetary form, you can actually get paid   in other ways   or you can get value in other ways from your   from your audience.   Now, this will   ultimately gets us onto the last point   I wanted to talk about here, which is   the money   is in merchant touring, so why is the money there?  

And much of the pages in between   the quotes of this book was really focussed   on analysing the decline in the record industry,   but overall growth in the music industry.   And you're like, okay,   well aren't they the same thing?   Record industry, music industry?   No, the record industry was solely concerned   about the distribution of music,   whereas the music industry is obviously it's   just about music as a whole.   Is music getting out and getting played   and we said yes, it was.   Is getting played in TV shows and movies.   It was working its way into more   and more genres, areas of the world,   you know, elevator music, gyms,   shopping malls, all this sort of stuff.  

You know, there's music being played everywhere   all the time, basically.   And now look at,   you know, TikTok and Instagram   and all these places where you can just click   a button, you can put a song into it.   Okay, it's everywhere.   Now, the thing is,   how have musicians making money?   Well, when this transition was happening,   all of it was basically being like   because the CDS sales were declining   because vinyl   and those sorts of things were declining,   you know, cassette tapes, all that sort of stuff.   The musicians were having   to do it through touring and,   and through much, which is,   you know,   to two ways   where once again, it's   kind of like   a physical product almost, you know,   I would have to physically go out to a venue   or I would get a, a physical shirt   or something like this   and I believe that this was probably   the way that had to be done.  

And that made sense for musicians to   to monetise their work in some sort of way,   considering that they couldn't do it   through the record industry, couldn't   do it anymore, it wasn't making sense.   The technology had moved on and changed.   File sharing had basically destroyed that   and so they had to do it through the   through touring and through much.   I am arguing that I think the case is now   that with micropayments becoming a viable option,   that this is allowing a new way,   it won't completely dominate,   you know, these other two mechanisms.   But I think   that micropayments, it's worth having a look at   and thinking about if you're a musician,   because there are certainly many people who   don't want   or can't consume the physical things.  

And so let's take me, for example.   I don't particularly enjoy live music and concerts.   I've been to a couple, but it's not a regular part   of my living and living lifestyle, I guess.   And the last one   I went to was probably in 2019, 2018,   maybe when I was in Mexico,   I went to a big concert there.   That was the last time I've been to one.   I don't particularly enjoy them.   I'm rather minimalist,   so I actually don't enjoy buying merch.   A lot of times   by desperation.   I have sometimes bought t shirts to support people.   Other podcasters, for example,   sending money to the UK via the banking system.  

So awful. I hated it.   I wished I wished my friends at that time   had accepted bitcoin because that would   have been so much easier.   But it's but I also like to support artists.   I like to do these things.   So let's take one of my   favourite musicians in a for example.   Now you know.   Yeah.   Create some amazing music.   I, I, I remember being a kid and hearing   some of her music and loving it   and she was also really hot   and I had a crush on her and probably still do.   And you know, she's one of my favourite musicians.   Even if I wanted to see her   live the last time she was in Australia,   I was looking this up, I believe was in 2018.  

So it's like, okay, well,   you know, it's been a while   since I could have supported her in that way.   I went on to our website just the other day   and her shop was down,   so if I wanted to buy merch,   I couldn't have even done it like that.   There's no donate button there.   And I was   struggling to think like, okay, how can I   how could I get some money to her?   And I'm guessing that there is a way   of still buying music somehow, maybe through,   I don't know, iTunes or Amazon music or something.   I don't have iTunes personally,   I don't have Amazon music personally,   so I would have to go   really out of my way to to do these things.  

But man, if she was V for V enabled,   if she had her music up as an RSS feed,   she and with with you know, wallet splits   and a way for me to do micropayments to her,   she would make   bank bank of me I would be sending her   all of my money   because I would   be just   listening to it all the time   and boosting and streaming   and all these sorts of things.   So this is where I was going to just say like,   if you're a musician,   giving it away for free, I think it's a is a good   is a good way of thinking about this, doing this   of putting your music up online.   It's up online everywhere.  

You know, people are accessing it for free.   Now, if you want to think of it through Spotify,   it's a very convoluted mechanism.   I'm sure Spotify still pays out,   but it's, you know,   we're getting there's increasing steps moving.   The technology is moving us further   and further towards   like everything being available   If you are creating content online.   And I just argue, you know, if you   if you haven't   thought about micropayments   and you haven't thought   about getting direct support   from your audience, it's worth doing that.   I argue the best way to do it is through the   the triangle of RSS, v2 V and BTC,   as we've saw pretty much in the last season.  

But you know, it's worth just looking elsewhere   if you're a musician   and having to think about that.   So that is my argument for today.   Free, free.   Let's jump onto the   gremlins and I really want to thank   some people for helping support   this show from last week.   So Mr.   Adam Curry, please take it away.   Welcome to the value   for value histogram.   Yes. So the booster gremlins   for those who don't know is where I think   the people who help support this show   and in particular in the monetary aspect.   We'll talk a little bit   more about how   you can support in a non-monetary aspect   at the end.  

And this is by doing a boost to ground   which you can send directly   through one of a new modern podcasting app.   There's all sorts of reasons   outside of the value transfer you can do.   I go live   so you could be listening to this live   the on on on one of those apps.   I put chapter images there   so that you can have interesting things   and you'll see stuff like spends   bitcoin gifts, which I put in there to help   brighten up make it more interesting.   You can get transcripts in their   notifications as soon as the   podcast goes out in this release,   all these sorts of things. So good reason   to check out some of these apps.  

If you gave me a modest   podcast dot com search support,   you'll see a list there of where   you can actually go and find these apps.   I've done a run   through all of these sorts of things   and you can send a message directly with an app.   That message will reach me   and this is just a classic example   of how these micropayments work.   You can stream in and you can also do it   via sending in   what is known as a boost,   which is just a one time payment or booster.   Graham Same thing,   but you have a message attached with that.   So I'm going to read some of these out here   and I'm just going to do them in sequential order   because it will lead up to the big the big one.  

So we had these laughs coming in with a thousand   sets sent using fountain.   He says Good show.   Would love to make your end of show   tracks one day fire. Hey, thank you, mate.   Thank you.   I am very much in this moment of   I've got my structure for this season,   but I will hit you up for next season   because that sounds like a really fun way of   being able to collaborate and do something   interesting and and change it up.   So, yes, more and more on that in   I'll also like   six months   time, I'll get back to you. That's probably   what I'll be doing the next season.  

We have a message here from Chad   and he says, Huge shout out to what   Barry is doing for live concerts.   I did mention this last week.   If you enjoyed Voice of Music   and want to help it   grow, please consider donating some sets   sets of up to Thunder Road.   And then he's got a   a clapping emoji 3333 sets sent using fountain.   Thank you very much, my friend.   And the link there is Thunder road dot media   and then forward slash live of what is that   the it's not colon the square   hyphen live hyphen is hyphen lit.   I'm going to have the link   to that in the show notes.  

I've also included them as a 5% split   to this very podcast in this very episode.   So yeah, I really love what what Barry is doing   for the live music of creating these concerts   where you can essentially   do what I'm talking about.   This is, this is what we're talking about.   The musicians are doing this concert for free.   You could jump into   the live stream at any point and   just watch the whole thing   without having to pay a single cent   or you can jump in and contribute.   So show some support like I will be doing as well   unless I'm flying in mid-flight   to Brazil, which is possible,   I will be doing that and   it's just a really exciting avenue of   of I think   the future of music, of things are changing.  

I did see a lot of streams coming in here from Sam,   Sam Sethi, the founder of True Fans.   And then check this out.   Sam Sethi 100,000 sets.   Cent using true fans,   although a Bola bola I don't have any of the   sound effects, but thank you very much.   So my God, thanks.   And he says, thank you so much   for your kind words and support.   Building an app at the bleeding   edge of tech is super hard, often rewarding,   but sometimes very frustrating.   And once again that.   So if you're wondering how much So I'm   talking micropayments and you're like,   they're sending these stats.  

What are these random things?   The equivalent of that at current   prices is about 105 AUD.   So, Sam, thank you.   Thank you very much.   You know, you've paid my hosting for a half a year.   A year? I don't know.   Thank you so much for doing that.   May I really do appreciate that   and I highly recommend people check out true fans   because it's   it's one of these places where   an app progressive web app   so can be used on your desktop, on your iPhone,   whatever phone you're on Android   and it's got all of these functionalities.   He has everything in there.   It's a it's a sweet app.  

I'm going to be recommending it more   because he's he's really   creating something interesting there.   And like I said, I did a little interview   for someone   who was also very interested in it   and writing an article on it.   So I will also link that when it comes out.   Chat offices in the chat.   That's me.   Thank you, Chad, very much.   Appreciate for joining us in here as well.   So let's jump on to, I suppose, some current   developments, latest developments.   Things are interesting.   Like I said, Thunder Road Media at get al Bitcoin.   If you wanted to help support that, live   things that are going on,   it really gives me the same vibes   as what was going on with Able Craft   when I was tuning into that show   like two years ago   where it was just, you know,   so Spencer and this guy Abel Kirby,   and they were creating   basically the first music, the first album   specifically to be able to release it in a value   for value format.  

And that was Abel and The Wolf.   I will be playing one of their songs   in the near future, and I think this is just   it's a pillar   in what's going to be something   that is really, really big and be for the music.   That's why I'm talking about it today.   I think it's really interesting.   Now, this is slightly off topic from music,   but it's it's very much on the same trend of   someone who was doing something digital   and having to adapt with   the times change,   make their money through   not exactly the way they wanted to   and then find exactly   their niche   and how they could do it directly   through through their art and through their music.  

And so there's this guy called Beeple.   If you haven't heard   of people before, he's basically   an artist and particularly digital art.   He'll do some 3D rendering and things like this.   But mostly   it would be what you would imagine is a JPEG image.   And he's been doing this for a long, long time.   I listened to this interview with him   and he was, you know,   creating the stuff and he was like,   okay, well,   I've put it on YouTube videos,   but it wasn't really getting much traction.   I was trying to direct   people to my website, but you know, that was hard.   And then he realised like,   well,   I can just put this on Facebook   and I'm just gonna put my art there.  

There was no way to pay for it.   There was no monetary reason. He was doing this.   He was giving it away for free.   What this led to was a lot of people   becoming very interested in what he was creating   and it ended up   turning out that he would get   How would he make money from his art?   Well,   he would actually get these opportunities   to work on and create for the Super Bowl halftime   Justin Bieber concerts.   You know, the   the background images behind him   when he's on the big TV   screens and things like this   and and all of these sorts of things.   So he's indirectly making his his money   through the AC one and the testing.  

Michael Joseph Winkelmann,   professionally known as Beeple,   American digital artist,   graphic designer and animator   and this is the part known for selling Nfts.   You know, like an NFT is what the hell is up?   NFT stands for Non-Fungible token   and basically means that he could sell his art   directly on the blockchain when the time was right.   So he was creating   all of this stuff, giving it away for free.   He somehow made   found a way to make money from it,   but it was through this very indirect method of,   you know, getting paid for,   getting renowned and then paid for his art,   but for other people's   installations and things like this.  

It's kind of similar to,   you know, musicians creating all this music   and then only getting paid when they're doing   concerts and selling merch. Interesting.   And then he found this way of when when   Ethereum was coming up and he realised,   you can actually   put your art   as a, as a digital image on the blockchain.   And it's like a one of one thing   and it's, it's stored there   and there's a way to make it digitally scarce   that, okay,   he could now sell it directly to his fans   and his fans really liked his stuff   and he ended up selling this piece   known as Everydays, which was a collage,   a collaboration of   of everything that he'd created for like   once a day, for years and years and years,   maybe a decade. I'm not sure how long.  

And he ended up selling this one thing   for like, you know, 63 million or something.   So Headlines. Amazing.   I think the lesson to take away from   this is delayed gratification.   You know, he created his stuff.   He put it out there for free.   He found a way to like, grind and make money   through alternative methods before he found   a way to connect directly with his audience and   and be able to,   you know, not only make   money from them, but connect   directly with them.   So this is an interesting   aspect of where you can see   a digital artist has done something similar.  

Now, obviously with music   you can maybe do NFT or things like this.   I wouldn't particularly recommend it.   I've looked at a lot of this stuff   for the past couple of years   and I still I think that the way forward is through   the the mechanisms.   I talked about   RSS because it's self-sovereign,   it's decentralised, it's permissionless,   and you can do value transfer through that   and then through value for value   and Bitcoin on top of that.   So I think the main thing   to take away from him is definitely just   putting your, your art out there for free.   Grow growing, creating a brand,   connecting with your audience   will lead to opportunity is further down the line.  

And then this gets into my   final section here, which funnily enough,   why Bitcoin? Why?   Why would you you know,   I just talked about it theorem and Nfts. But why?   Why would I say that It's, it's   worth focusing on Bitcoin.   And I say Mr.   Robot in the chat,   except that anyone can copy and paste any of it.   NFT is, it's a scam,   you know,   the same argument could be made for putting   music up in an RSS feed.   Anyone can copy it and and put it up.   We're not seeing that behaviour here   and I think it's ultimately it's,   it's, it's kind of about this   delayed gratification.  

And so, you know,   what is the ultimate delayed gratification?   It's saving your money and this is where I   very much going to stay away   from the financial advice   and I view BTC as the best way to do that.   If you're new,   you're going to hear about   this thing called Hodling, which is holding on for   dear life, the acronym if you want.   Or basically   a guy got drunk and spelled holding wrong and   which is ultimately just forgoing a quick win   now for something better later.   Once again, delayed gratification of   is what I'm arguing that musicians should do.   Certainly what I'm doing with putting   all of this stuff out for free.  

I could be advertising right now.   I choose not to because I think   ultimately in the end,   giving it away for free is better.   And I will get   I will get more later in the end and I will feel   better about doing it.   So this is just one of   those ones where it's like,   I also just want to caution   people are selling houses   to buy this stuff and I wouldn't   particularly recommend that.   And I know someone who is doing this   and I've known someone three years ago,   four years ago doing the same thing.   It ultimately gives you more options   and therefore more freedom.  

I think just just be very careful.   Don't take it to the extremes,   because if you're listening to this   for the first time and you're like,   streaming micropayments,   Bitcoin, you can get caught up   in the investing side of things.   I think that's interesting and worth looking at.   I also just want to advertise caution   and that if you're looking at these things   through the micropayment lens,   we're using it as money.   So it's not really   you shouldn't be thinking   of it as like an investment.   It should be looking at   as more of an income or things like this.   So, you know, Samsonite   in $100, I don't view that as a as like X amount.  

And Bitcoin is like, okay,   he sent me that much through,   through bitcoin and insights   and I do appreciate it, but I'm not going to hold   that particular thing for the long, long term.   I prefer to use that to help support   other people like Burberry   is doing and things like this.   So, you know, just don't do it.   Take it to the extremes, be be careful.   You know   what, makes it valuable is the the peer   to peer transactions.   And so you'll also perhaps hear   never part of the Bitcoin and things like that.   But I think it's worth   supporting your favourite   artists and and helping people like that.  

So let's go on to the last section here.   I've got time, talent and treasure.   This is how you can support the show.   So what I would really love is   if you could share this with a digital creator.   Also come join me live like one has, like Mr.   Robot has like Chad has like   coal has all very much appreciated.   I love saying these   the comments down down on the YouTube video.   You can also just listen   in live   on any of the podcasting apps which support it   which in particular are found in podcast   guru pod verse true fans zero cost   and not full cost money.  

Yeah those ones will do us for now.   You can also come with some talent.   So is there anything I can do   to make this better? What annoys you?   What resources are similar to this?   If those book recommendations   similar to this, which you think highlights   how the digital world is changing   and this is changing the way that, you know,   content creators, particularly digital ones,   interact with their audience.   And if you have any book   similar to the inevitable by Kevin Kelly or three   by Chris Anderson, please send them my way.   I would love to know these.  

And we also saw from DS Lofts last week,   you know,   if you want to help collaborate as well,   I'm down for it and yeah I'm   we'll see if I can fit you into for this season but   definitely for the future.   I'm looking for opportunities   to do something like that   and then try to three options, do it through a   new podcasting app.   I just listed quite a few and do it   through directly the podcast index website.   One of the things with true fans   I should mention, as soon   soon they will have   the ability to to top up your wallet with   with Apple Pay or Google Pay,   which will be very, very much   a nice onboarding mechanism   because it is kind of hard to get Bitcoin   is Satoshis I get it, I get it.  

It's confusing.   And so that just just know   all of this is getting easier   and it's becoming more mainstream.   So the check out that   there's also a PayPal link down below   one and I have agreed that this will just send   this directly to developers   working on things and like Sam   who's like you mentioned, it's it's a hard gig.   It's not it's not easy.   And so I very much appreciate it.   If you want to help me help support the show,   all of the splits I've got going,   5% is going to developers and you know, another 30   or 40% is going to call seven and   the downfalls for helping provide music.  

And speaking of music, speaking of music,   we're coming to   our last section here, which is we're   going to be talking about   we'll playing a song, in fact.   And you know, this this   this episode has been focussed on freedom free.   And the song we actually have today   is, is Freedom by Valley Ramirez.   And she actually reminds me   of one of my favourite artists who is an inner   voice, is very,   very, very similar. So I was like,   I have to play it for this one.   I actually got to give a   shout out to Cole McCormick through America.   Plus this is how I found her,   because she played one of her songs there and   it's really interesting seeing how artists are   creating and finding ways to not only,   you know, talk about and   create the art themselves, but express   it showcase why they were doing it.  

She's actually   got a podcast about her songs,   which is really, really cool.   So I and I speak Spanish relatively well so   and can understand it. So I went into it.   And so this song is about risking everything.   And I and I think this is a perfect timing   for this episode.   You know,   it's worth taking that risk, worth   taking that gamble,   putting your music out for free.   For her,   the risking everything was leaving   Colombia for the first time,   leaving her comfort zone and trying something new.   And, you know, this is why this song is just a one.   It's it's a great song. I love it.  

But I think it's also   fits in nicely with this theme.   So this is Valle Ramirez, I believe her Colorado co   artist is Dave.   And in general, which means Dave, the engineer.   And she's going to take us away.   And thank you very much for joining me   live, 10 a.m.   Australian Eastern Standard   Time on a Thursday is where I am   sorry, on a monday.   That's that's a book review is when to go live   on a Thursday.   And I really hope you join me for next week.   Please send in a boost.   And if you send in a boost now, you're going   to be helping support Valley.   So here we go.  

Mother Omalu, Omalu, Omalu.   Are you.   Watching   that? I   want a damn black.   Cause I.   Think that the fight on ozone was kind.   Of anger and misled us   and did a little that did them with.   Football again.   On Shut You know, SS three   four SS   At Boston College,   where I see them, you seen them in   the AFL   battle with Gary Salo three   He thought this   and w they complained   And Sullivan   astronomy professor   Douglas Sally, Mr.   McKillop said they know and.   He hasn't.   Done the opposite of that   all I know but I'm supporter   that they'll be offered.   Hockey cigars and I'd be able to see a guest.  

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